346: Refusing to Testify? Is Brian Walshe Going to Walk Free? | Trial Week 2 Recap

The trial of Brian Walshe is surprisingly almost over now, 4 weeks earlier than expected. A lot of people are now wondering if they’ve actually done enough to convict Brian of murder.. If you’re new here, don’t forget to subscribe for weekly deep dives into the darkest true crime cases: youtube.com/@annieelise. Week 1 Recap: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/serialously-with-annie-elise/id1519456164?uo=4. Evil Mastermind or Complete Moron? Brian Walshe & Ana WalsheYT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4yswRzJAqU&t=805sApple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/serialously-with-annie-elise/id1519456164?i=1000719369969Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2cqphpRvh0mnfidvZ6e8bp?si=urOHz4o5SceI_szbLcW8tw.🔎 Join Our True Crime Club & Get Exclusive Content & PerksJoin The Club: patreon.com/AnnieElise..🎧 Need More to Binge? Listen to both of my weekly true crime series 10 to Life & Serialously with Annie Elise wherever you get your podcasts on the Annie Elise Channel!🍎 Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3WpfSP8 Where you can also unlock access to 100+ and growing extra exclusive deep dives.💚 Spotify: bit.ly/10TLSpotify 🎙️ All Other Platforms: bit.ly/AnnieEliseAudioboom..📸 Follow Annie on Socials Instagram: instagram.com/_annieelise TikTok: tiktok.com/@_annieelise Facebook: facebook.com/@10tolifeSubstack: bit.ly/AnnieEliseSubstack..👗 Shop Annie’s Must-Haves! ShopMY: bit.ly/AnnieElise_ShopMy Amazon: bit.ly/AnnieElise_Amazon. .••••••••••••••••••🚨Disclaimers1️⃣ Some links may be affiliate links, they do not cost you anything, but I make a small percentage from the sale. Thank you so much for watching and supporting me. 2️⃣ Sources used to collect this information include various public news sites, interviews, court documents, FB groups dedicated to the case, and various news channel segments. When quoting statements made by others, they are strictly alleged until confirmed otherwise. Please remember my videos are my independent opinion and to always do your own research. 3️⃣ The views and opinions expressed in this video are personal and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organization, employer, or company. Assumptions made in the analysis are not reflective of the position of any entity other than the creator(s). These views are subject to change, revision, and rethinking at any time and are not to be held in perpetuity. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, correctness, suitability, or validity of any information on this video and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, injuries, or damages arising from its display or use. All information is provided on an as-is basis. It is the reader’s responsibility to verify their own facts.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:27Annie Elise?

  Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serial Inslee.

• 1:49Annie Elise?

  Hello, hello, hello. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serial Inslee. With me, Annie E. Lys. Bonus episode edition. Happy Friday. I hope you are, you know, ready to kick off your weekend. Hope you had a great week. Hoping you are ready to hear about this freaking douche canoe, Brian Walsh, because... I'm back. I'm here with you for another bonus episode outside of the regular release schedule because so many of you last week appreciated the coverage and wanted to continue following the trial and the story. So here I am again with a recap for not only the second week, but what appears to be the final week, actually. The trial was originally

• 2:33Annie Elise?

  supposed to, I can't talk, heller. The trial was originally supposed to be four to six weeks. Then we heard that it might be two to three weeks. Now it's like almost a wrap and done. And don't worry, I'm going to explain why and we're going to get into all of that. So I have my notes next to me. I have my big freaking jug of water here. Let me move the microphone a little bit away from my mouth so that you don't hear all my like disgusting noises. And let's talk about what went down this week because I would say towards the end of the week, it definitely kind of took everybody for a surprise. Now, let me just start by saying this too. If you missed last week, I will link our week

• 3:15Annie Elise?

  one recap in the show notes where we break down all the players, how we got here, the whole situation. I also will link the deep dive that we did on this case a while back that takes you through the entire story. But here's your like mega, mega quick refresher. This loser, Brian Walsh, is accused of murdering his wife, Anna Walsh. This was after she disappeared in January of 2023, literally like New Year's Day. Now, the prosecution has already shown some pretty wild evidence, in my opinion, that Brian absolutely dismembered her body, lied to the police about it. And in my opinion, I do believe that they have illustrated that he murdered her. Now, shockingly, if you missed last week, let me just tell

• 4:00Annie Elise?

  you this, the defense isn't even denying the part of him dismembering his wife, Anna. They're kind of like, well, yeah, he did. He panicked. He had no other choice. He didn't know what to do. He woke up, she was dead, and in a blind panic, he thought he had to get rid of her body because he was scared he was going to be charged with her murder. So, yeah, he dismembered her. Yep. Mm hmm. Yep. Yep. That's right. I mean,

• 4:28Annie Elise?

  Again, their whole argument is that he did this in a like frenzied panic after coming to bed New Year's Eve, or waking up, I should say, or in the middle of the night, or whenever it was, and then finding Anna dead next to him, which actually, that's something I do want to just quickly clarify and touch on really quickly from last week's episode. I did mention it in the comments on the episode, but last week when we had talked about the defense and their explanation of Anna's death, I had mentioned that he had nudged her and that she fell off the bed. And so he said, oh, she had this unexplained medical incident and she died. And I think the way I explained it definitely made it sound like, or could have, I guess, made it sound like the fall is what killed her.

• 5:11Annie Elise?

  But let me just clarify, what he is saying is that he nudged her a couple of times in the bed, and that she wasn't moving, and then she basically like fell off the bed, so that she was already deceased in the bed, and that was from the unexplained medical incident. So, basically, what they're trying to say, or I should say what the defense is trying to lay out, is that this beautiful, healthy, 39-year-old woman who had a regular New Year's Eve dinner, that with him, with friends, then went to bed, just had this, you know, crazy, unexplained, medical situation that left her dead. And then Brian was nudging her, trying to move her, to wake her up, to do whatever he was doing, she, you know,

• 5:56Annie Elise?

  fell off the bed, he realized she was dead, and then he said, you know what, rather than calling 911, rather than hoping someone can come and save her and resuscitate her, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna go to Home Depot, and I'm gonna buy myself a hatchet, and a hacksaw, and cleaning supplies, and I'm gonna get to work and dismember her. Yep. That's what I'm gonna do. I'm not gonna call 911. And you know what? Before I do that, let me just make some searches on how to get away with this. How to cover up a murder, how to get rid of the smell of decomposition, how to properly dismember a body. Let me get some education, then go buy the supplies, and let me get rid of my wife. Yeah, I just don't think I should call 911.

• 6:41Annie Elise?

  Like, are you out of your mind? Is this the best that the defense could come up with? Honestly, honestly, I'm kind of surprised that they went with something so bizarre, but look, I'm not a defense attorney, so maybe there's a strategy here, and I'm just the loser idiot who is too dumb to keep up. I don't know. But now that we've got all of that straight, week two of the trial opened up at the top of this week with Trooper Connor Keith back on the stand. And, sorry, I'm just gonna grab some water, too, really quick. And he was showing text messages between Brian and Anna. Now, last week, God, I can't get this off. Sorry. One second. Pause.

• 7:21Annie Elise?

  Sometimes that happens. I'm talking a million miles an hour. I'm a fast talker by nature, and then I just am, like, dehydrated and, you know, dying of thirst, like, my mouth is the Sahara Desert. So, anyway, he's talking about these text messages between Brian and Anna. And last week, we learned that just days before Anna died, Brian had searched William Fasto. Now, this is the guy that his wife Anna was having an affair with. He also searched Anna Walsh found dead. Not, you know, very normal searches, I would argue. Now, around that same time, he also searched the names of two buildings that were managed by Anna's real estate company. Which, to me, that sounds like a lot of motive.

• 8:06Annie Elise?

  That sounds maybe like some premeditation. It sounds to me like Brian was basically deep diving into his own wife Anna, also looking into the man that she was cheating with, their company, their buildings. I mean, the whole kit and caboodle. God, that really, really just aged me. Now that I said, my mom and dad used to say that to me. Whatever. That feels like it aged me, but who cares? We're all in this together. So. He has these searches into the guy she's having an affair with, her buildings, a search that says very explicitly, Anna Walsh dead before she even goes missing, which the defense had a totally and almost kind of endearing explanation for why Brian

• 8:51Annie Elise?

  made those searches. Okay, so let me break that down. They claim that after Anna was late getting back to Massachusetts on Christmas, because remember she would go back and forth from DC to Massachusetts, they say that Brian got worried that something serious had happened to her. So to back up that point, they looked and pointed out during cross-examination that Brian also had searched Xmas Day plane crash, meaning Christmas Day plane crash, and he also had searched around the same time that he had searched William, this was also searched around the same time he had searched William's name and the search Anna Walsh found dead. So they were saying basically and arguing that he was searching for her

• 9:36Annie Elise?

  name and for her boyfriend's name because he was scared something happened. He was also searching for a plane crash, wondering if maybe she'd gotten a plane crash on her way back to Massachusetts on Christmas. And as for Brian searching the company buildings, they pointed out that those two specific buildings had recently been tied to an outbreak of severe upper respiratory disease. So according to them, all of these searches really were just an illustration of Brian being this very loving, very thoughtful, very worried husband, just researching what Anna may have been exposed to in these buildings, a plane crash on her way back from Massachusetts, was her boyfriend hurt too, which it kind

• 10:18Annie Elise?

  of made me wonder if by laying that foundation, if they were going to try and connect that mysterious illness in those buildings to the whole unexplained medical incident theory that they claim caused Anna's death, which again, if you're new to this, the, the cause of death can't be determined because Anna's body has not been recovered. So. I thought that maybe they would try and tie those things together, but they didn't, which, not really, which I'll explain here in a minute. So during Trooper Keefe's cross-examination, the defense also pointed out that Brian and Anna regularly were texting with each other about plans to buy a new property, even plans to buy a new Porsche.

• 11:03Annie Elise?

  So according to the defense, if Anna was talking about buying another home with Brian, that completely disproves the prosecution's theory that she was planning to leave him. And if Brian was talking about buying her a Porsche, then according to the defense, obviously, he wasn't planning her murder. He loved her, he wanted to buy her lavish gifts, they were looking for property, you know, nobody ever is buying somebody luxury gifts or pretending that they're going to if they're planning a murder. Which, if you are not seeing me right now and you're only listening, you see my face and how I think that is complete bullshit. How many times do we hear the voicemail to, and I'm thinking of Scott Peterson, we say,

• 11:45Annie Elise?

  "Hey honey, just, you know, here thinking about you, gonna..." Not this, but like, "Bake some cookies, I miss you, I love you," like all these things. People do this, people want to act like they're in paradise before something happens so that it gets the smoke, or not smoke, gets the like stench off of them, right? So that people don't look to you and they don't think that you were involved in this. So, I don't know. The Porsche and the buying the property doesn't really sway my thought process on this. Maybe it does for you, let me know, but I think that's probably just par for the course. They were talking about a property, Anna was building plans allegedly to leave him and I'm sure that that was done in secret, so maybe this property, she was just appeasing

• 12:29Annie Elise?

  him, like, "Yeah, let's go look at it, yeah, sure, we'll look at the Porsche too," ready to kind of basically be like, "Bro, there's no Porsche, there's no property, I'm leaving your loser ass." And that could even be what conversation was had on New Year's Eve that made this whole thing blow up, who knows? But then anyways, the prosecution continued their case and they brought in Richard Atkinson. He's a medical examiner. So he gave more details about the horrifying evidence that was found in Brian's car. Evidence that we had talked about in last week's episode. Now, this included a piece of rug that was covered in blood, a clump of brown hair, and a quarter inch long blood clot. A quarter inch long blood clot.

• 13:13Annie Elise?

  I mean, this is horrific. And so we heard more about this and just, again, the explanation is, well, yeah, he was dismembering her. He got rid of her body. Of course, you're going to find DNA and those types of things. And I'm getting ahead of myself a bit, so I apologize, but we will get there. All right, I feel like we need to just have an honest conversation here in the circle of trust. Can we talk about how literally everything seems to be getting more expensive? Groceries, gas, rent, you name it. And apparently, your wireless bill wants to join in on that party, too. But here's the thing, it doesn't have to. Mint Mobile is making it so much easier to stop overpaying for wireless with plans starting at just 15 bucks a month. And you're not sacrificing quality either.

• 13:58Annie Elise?

  All plans include high-speed data, unlimited talk and text, and access to the nation's largest 5G network. You can also use your current phone and your current phone number. You just sign up online and you are good to go. Now, I changed carriers probably a year and a half ago at this point to Mint Mobile. And when I tell you, not only was it the best decision of my life, I now have like service in places my husband doesn't even have service, but it was so easy. It took me 15 minutes, kept my phone, kept my phone number. It was the best. So for a new wireless plan starting at 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com/ae. That's mintmobile.com/ae. $45 upfront payment required, equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three-month plan only. Taxes and fees extra.

• 14:43Annie Elise?

  See Mint Mobile for details. This episode is sponsored by Chime. Get more of your money with Chime. With the Chime card, you get 5% cash back in a category of your choice with qualifying direct deposits. From gas to travel to dining. Choose the category that fits where you're spending most that month, then try switching it up next month. If you're spending $1,000 a month on groceries, you could get up to 600 a year back. Plus, you get travel perks like airport lounge access and 24/7 travel concierge included with your Chime card. There are no annual fees, no interest, and no credit check to apply. Join the millions who already are banking fee-free with America's number one choice for banking. Head to chime.com/serialistically.

• 15:26Annie Elise?

  That is chime.com/serialistically. Sign up now, it only takes a few minutes. Chime is a fintech, not bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Qualifying direct deposits required. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com/disclosures for details. So on cross for this, the defense jumped at the chance to bring up this whole sudden unexpected death situation that we've talked about earlier. This is their grand theory of how Anna died. So Richard confirmed that yes, sometimes young, seemingly healthy people do just die. In fact, in sudden unexpected death accounts, there is a percentage attached to it.

• 16:06Annie Elise?

  Apparently like 5% to 10% of all deaths are, quote, you know, sudden unexpected deaths. It can happen after physical exertion, stress, long travel. It even can happen after sex. Just a little warning for all you, you know, people listening who are sexually active. Now, of course, we know that Anna did travel a lot for work. She would go back and forth from Massachusetts to DC. She was, you know, a hustler, she would grind. I would imagine she also carried an incredible amount of stress, given the situation and what she was trying to potentially leave and a new life she was trying to start, trying to get her kids to DC, but she couldn't because Brian was on house arrest for his fraud crimes.

• 16:50Annie Elise?

  I mean, yeah, there is a lot of stress. So I could understand that being a possible argument. However, on redirect, the prosecution had Richard clarify, and Richard said, and I want to quote it, he said, It's definitely not common at all for a healthy 39-year-old woman to just drop dead out of nowhere. So, there you have it. Now, the managing director at Anna's company also took the stand and she testified that Brian had contacted her on January 4th, saying that he couldn't get ahold of Anna. And that's when the head of the company's security had to be the one to basically be like, "Hey, bro, if your wife is missing, you need to call the police. Why are you calling us? Call the police."

• 17:35Annie Elise?

  And we did talk a little bit about that last week. And we also now know that Brian admitted that this whole, "I can't reach her. Where is she? Is she at work? Have you heard from her?" That whole thing was obviously a lie, which he admitted. And it kinda makes everything feel a little worse, right? Like, your lie was even lazy, which you had to, you called your wife's workplace, they had to remind you to call her in as a missing person. It just seems like this guy was a complete moron every single step of the way and trying to cover this up. But, I've said it before and I'll say it again, I love to see it. I love when they're big, dumb, and stupid, because it makes it so much cleaner of a case for the prosecution to argue.

• 18:18Annie Elise?

  Now, speaking of him being a complete utter dweeby loser, we also saw footage from a liquor store on New Year's Eve, and it showed Brian walking toward a dumpster with plastic bags. Now, this is the third surveillance video that has him just on camera, dropping off bags of trash at random dumpsters, like it's a full-time hobby. It reminds me a lot of Barry Morpheau. It also, I think I said last week, reminds me a lot of Fotus Dulles, like, "Oh, I have all this trash, so, no, I'm not gonna take it to the dump, I'm not gonna use my big bins that I wheel out on Fridays, I'm not even gonna go to one location that has a big dumpster. I think all of this McDonald's trash and all of this paper and garbage in my car, you

• 19:03Annie Elise?

  know what? I'm gonna scatter it. That's what I'm gonna do. I'm not gonna go to one dumpster, I'm gonna scatter it, even though it's nothing that I'm scared of people finding. I just feel like it wouldn't be a waste of my time to drive to three different dump sites and dispose of my garbage." Guys, come on, come on. And the creepiest part of all of this too is this liquor store wasn't even open. He was just cruising by in the dark, trying to dump his stuff, you know, into this dumpster. So obviously he had no reason to even be at this liquor store unless he was there trying to ditch evidence. The employee also from this liquor store testified that he easily could identify Brian

• 19:46Annie Elise?

  because Brian apparently hung out at this liquor store more than any other customer. He said, "It seemed like Brian really had nothing better to do on his weekends than just loiter in his liquor store," which, how embarrassing, how embarrassing and pathetic. Which, look, I get, he was on house arrest or whatever, so he couldn't really go a lot of places. He could go to the grocery store, apparently the liquor store, he had, you know, a certain list of approved places, so it limits your options of what you can do and where you can go, but just being the local idiot hanging out at a liquor, at a liquor store to where this owner or manager or employee or whatever, isn't even saying like, "Yeah,

• 20:28Annie Elise?

  we had homeless people come here a lot, or we have, you know, the town alcoholic who comes in a lot." They identified Brian as being this guy, this guy who had nothing better to do than just loiter in this liquor store. And it's so pathetic when you really think about it because here Anna was, this beautiful 39-year-old woman with this, you know, 50-year-old garbage pail man, and she's out there making six figures a year, hustling, grinding, doing whatever she could do, and Brian was just this counterfeit art fraud wannabe, now just hanging out and boozing it up in a local liquor store. It's just beyond, and...

• 21:11Annie Elise?

  I don't know. I don't know. This guy is just like, he gets under my skin for so many different reasons. And I just think he is like such a loser. And look, I get it. I'm not trying to say that Anna is the best model citizen. Obviously, there are some things that I wish she probably had done differently and choices she made that were different in regards to the affair and all of that. Not to say that any of that is justifies murder or means she had it coming. Obviously not. But she was doing her best. She was doing her best with the cards that she was dealt. She got this job, met this guy who was arguably way more handsome than Brian, successful, wasn't trying to make a quick buck selling

• 21:55Annie Elise?

  fake Andy Warhols. And did she handle it the right way? Maybe not, but certainly did not deserve to be murdered over it. And this guy Brian just looks like a freaking loser, dweeb, twerp from every lens you go, you look through. We also saw more footage of Brian wearing the blue latex gloves and the black mask while he was buying all of his cleaning supplies. Now, get this. So we already talked about how he was at Lowe's caught on camera buying $400 worth of cleaning supplies. He also bought hydrogen peroxide at CVS, ammonia at Stop & Shop, and another $400 spent at Home Depot on even more cleaning supplies.

• 22:36Annie Elise?

  But what was finally confirmed, and is one of the more devastating parts of this, is that Brian and Anna's young son was with him at Lowe's when he was buying this. Which, imagine bringing your child with you to pick up supplies to clean up their dead mother's body. Regardless of how she died, whether it was murder, like the prosecution says, or sudden, unexplained death, like the defense wants us to believe, I mean, dragging your kid to the store to get cleanup supplies to dismember their mother's body is truly sick. And I don't know, I may have said this in last week's episode, I'm not sure, I can't recall.

• 23:18Annie Elise?

  Where we don't know, at least it hasn't been said that I have seen, where Brian actually did dismember on his body. We know he bought a tarp, he bought like a hazmat type suit, he bought the tools. I would argue that it probably happened inside their garage or a basement, meaning that not only did he take their young son along for this, you know, trip to the store to buy all of this cleaning supplies, but he may have dismembered on his body and stored her body and did literally dismantled her entire body in the house while her sons were sleeping and where they would wake up every day. And it was the holiday break, remember? They weren't back in school yet, I'm sure. So like,

• 23:58Annie Elise?

  it's so sick when you really break it down and think about what how sinister this all is. And I just truly hope that these three kids are getting every bit of love and support that they possibly can and that they are with a loving family member. And it just, if you were watching the video version of this episode right now, you can see I have goosebumps. It just gives me the chills. It really does. Oh, this. Okay, so then Matthew Sheehan from the Massachusetts State Police Crime Lab testified, sorry. And he tested areas around the Walsh home, plus some of the evidence that was found in Brian's car and in the dumpsters that Brian was seen at. And he ended up finding stains

• 24:41Annie Elise?

  all over the place that tested positive for blood. This included the basement floor, the basement stairs, two towels, pieces of carpet, a rug, a piece of tissue paper, a pair of slippers, a sponge, and even a clump of human hair that was matted with blood. And like I said, it looks like this all went down in the basement. Now, what's even scarier is all of the weapons and the tools that we had mentioned last week, the knife, the hammer, the hacksaw, that, you know, the hatchet, the wire cutters, all of those also tested positive for blood, which you would think that, actually, I'm not even going to get into that of like what tools would be used on what body part. You can do the math and figure that out, but.

• 25:25Annie Elise?

  As we know, the defense admitted Brian did dispose of Anna's body. So, none of this information, that there's blood on all of these tools, none of that is exactly shocking. However, hearing how extensive and gruesome the evidence is, that is shocking. It's a lot. Plus, you have to remember that even though we know that Brian has pleaded guilty to moving Anna's body and lying to the police, the jury doesn't know anything about him pleading guilty. So this is all totally new to them. They don't know that he has admitted guilt for moving her body, which, I think that, it's my opinion, there's enough clear evidence that they wouldn't need to know that in order to reach their verdict,

• 26:08Annie Elise?

  but we can talk more on that later, and I'm curious to know your thoughts on that. So the defense pointed out that for all of the blood that was found inside the house, none of it showed a splatter pattern, that it was basically just puddles and stains. And Matthew agreed that there were no splatters, which you would normally expect if there had been some sort of extreme violent incident, something like a stabbing, or blunt force trauma, or something like that. So this was once again now the defense trying to support their argument that, yeah, there is a ton of evidence that Brian cut up his wife's body, but, and disposed of her, but there's no actual proof that he killed her in the first place. The prosecution, though, brought up that any splatters could have easily been cleaned up.

• 26:53Annie Elise?

  And Matthew also said that cleaning solutions such as hydrogen peroxide, ammonia, and bleach, they can all clean up blood stains, so much so to the point that they are undetectable. And those are all things that we know that Brian purchased shortly after Anna's death. So basically, they are saying, okay, just because there aren't any violent blood spatters or splatters, that doesn't mean that there weren't any to begin with. They could have just been cleaned up. Whereas meanwhile, the defense is saying, well, you can't find any splatters. All you have are little pools and drips, and that is, you know, that does tie back to the dismemberment. So prove that there was a crime here that happened, though, the, a crime, you know, a homicide crime.

• 27:36Annie Elise?

  Another thing that I found really interesting, just in regards to the whole supplies cleanup, you know, Google search kind of of it all, is Matthew also testified that a bunch of the items that he tested were covered in a white powder. It was later confirmed that it was baking powder, which, this is where it kind of gets interesting. It goes back to them being dumb and stupid, and by them, I mean Brian, because where have we heard baking powder before? In Brian's Google search history, he had searched, "Can baking soda make a dead body smell good?" But apparently, in all of those errands that Brian ran across the entire freaking state, picking up supplies, he couldn't even manage to grab the right item.

• 28:21Annie Elise?

  He was supposed to be getting baking... I'm sorry, I'm like having a stroke. He was supposed to be getting baking soda, not baking powder, and he got the wrong thing. So, not to be rude, but he doesn't exactly scream genius criminal mastermind. Sorry, guys, I need to take another break. I'm talking so much. And usually I cut these little like water moments out so that it's a cleaner episode, but we're just getting into it. We're just hanging together. So, hold on.

• 28:50Speaker 04

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• 29:19Speaker 01

  Time for a quick break to talk about McDonald's. It's the tangiest time of the year. For a limited time, head to McDonald's and get a McRib sandwich. Make it a meal by adding a medium fries and a soft drink like an ice cold Diet Dr. Pepper. So grab a McRib sandwich and embrace the tang. Save time by ordering ahead on the app at participating McDonald's for a limited time. Dr. Pepper is a registered trademark of Dr. Pepper, 7-Up Inc.

• 29:47Annie Elise?

  Okay, let's continue. And so, the prosecution then called several DNA experts, including Saman Saleem. This is, he was from the Massachusetts State Police Crime Lab. And they testified that the inside of those bloody slippers and the Tyvek suit that was found in the dumpster, which the Tyvek suit is basically like the hazmat suit, they both contained DNA consistent with both Anna and Brian. The sample of human tissue that was found in the dumpster was also consistent with belonging to Anna. Anna's DNA was also all over the basement floor, the blade of the hacksaw, the blade of the hatchet as well. Which, the defense fired back that everything that was found in those trash bags

• 30:32Annie Elise?

  could have easily been cross-contaminated, either by items in the same bag or from other bags. So because of that, there's really no way to know what the evidence looked like before it got tossed in all together and just compacted together. Which, yes, is technically possible, but also, I mean, come on, like, come on. How else would blood and Anna's DNA end up in that dumpster? It does not make sense. It kind of feels like a weak argument, if you ask me. So midweek was a huge day for the prosecution because in this part of the trial, they called Jem Mutlu to the stand, or Mutlu, sorry, I'm pronouncing things wrong. Now Jem was, oh, sorry, what, my notes here are going off screen.

• 31:16Annie Elise?

  Okay, so Jem was Anna's boss and had also been at that New Year's Eve dinner with Brian and Anna. Meaning, he was basically the last person to see Anna alive, aside from Brian. And Jem wasn't just Anna's boss, he was also a really close friend to the whole family. He said that Anna was like a sister to him. He even thought of the Walsh kids as his own. And he actually got very emotional as he told the jury about the last time that he saw Anna at this New Year's Eve party, saying that she was in a great mood, she was wearing a brand new ring, Brian seemed totally normal and happy. And he knew that Anna had been stressed about work and also stressed about not seeing her kids enough. He admitted he also knew about some marital issues that were going on between Brian and Anna.

• 32:02Annie Elise?

  But he also said that he had never seen Brian act jealous. He also didn't know about any plans for Anna to leave Brian. And he said he couldn't even recall ever seeing the two of them argue. He also added, and I want to quote this, I always thought that there was a lot of love between them and that she was very much in love with Brian. Now, we got a very different perspective when the prosecution called Anna's other close friend Alyssa Kirby. Now Alyssa said that Anna called her very upset on December 29th, 2022. So, just a couple of days before her death and before the New Year's Eve party or dinner, you know, whatever you want to call it.

• 32:42Annie Elise?

  And she described Anna as at a quote "breaking point" in her marriage, especially with Brian's art fraud case dragging just everything down, where they could live, their expenses, what they owed, all of these things. Anna also felt like Brian wasn't taking any responsibility, that he kept trying to delay his sentencing. And according to Alyssa, Brian was so depressed over the case that the two of them, Brian and Anna, hadn't even been intimate with one another in over a year. She also said that Brian would constantly ask Anna how much she loved him, just kind of needing that reassurance, but then not saying "I love you" back to Anna. So, asking for that reassurance from her, "Tell me you love me, do you still love me?

• 33:25Annie Elise?

  How much, how much?", and then not reciprocating it, which is kind of given desperado, if you ask me. And I know every, you know, marriage is always ebb and flow with intimacy, with, you know, being head over heels in love with each other, or showing that love and PDA and all that, it's always going to ebb and flow. And they had been married at this point for, what, they got married in 2015, so seven years, seven-year itch, I guess you could argue in there, but I don't know, for him to, for them to not be intimate with one another for over a year, then for him to constantly need this reassurance, it's just kind of given, I don't know, don't love it.

• 34:05Annie Elise?

  Now Alyssa also said that not only did Anna admit to her that she had a crush on William, she apparently also admitted it to Brian. And Alyssa said that Brian was actually pretty cool about it, or at least he acted that way on the outside, which I don't know what would drive Anna to tell Brian, her husband, that she had a crush on somebody that she's working with, unless you're really trying to make him insecure, but it at least does prove that Brian knew about Anna's attraction to William, which prosecution, of course, is arguing is a huge motive for why Brian would want her dead. That's also, who knows when that timing all lined up, but we know he searched William's name as well. According to Alyssa, Brian's mom had gone and seen a psychic and the psychic told her

• 34:49Annie Elise?

  that Anna was having an affair. And that really upset Anna because I don't know if she was just mad that the mother was meddling and getting involved, or because she was getting exposed because, of course, it turned out to be true. But Anna was upset that her mother-in-law would kind of go out of her way to figure out if Anna was being faithful and go see a psychic over it. And apparently, this had all been building for quite some time. Anna felt like Brian's mom never really liked her, always wanted her out of the picture, and so now she was kind of finding a way to make that reality. Which, again, I'd be curious to know if, I mean, if Anna really was having plans to leave Brian and wanted to build a future with William, I guess you still would be upset

• 35:32Annie Elise?

  that your mother-in-law is meddling and that she's trying to get you out of the picture because you would want to handle it on your own and you wouldn't want to make things messier, but it just feels like a very toxic and messy situation. So after hearing from honest friends, at the very end of the day on Wednesday, we got very surprising news that the prosecution was arresting their case. This was after only eight days of testimony. And honestly, this not only surprised me, guys, it surprised everyone. Because originally, the trial was supposed to go four to six weeks. Then we know it was scaled back a little bit, but this still seemed really quick. And a lot of people are wondering if the prosecution has done enough to convict Brian of murder.

• 36:13Annie Elise?

  Now personally, I completely agree that they have shown a ton of evidence that Brian dismembered Anna, that he dumped her body. I think they also have shown a ton of evidence that he lied to the police and, quite honestly, a ton of evidence that he's just like an asshole. And I think that there is indication of motive and premeditation, especially for the Google searches before Anna disappeared. But at this point, there isn't a lot of truly rock-solid proof that he actually murdered her. I mean, the prosecution did establish, like I said, some strong motives for why Brian would want Anna dead. We also know that he was the last person to see her alive. But in terms of actual...

• 36:54Annie Elise?

  Non circumstantial proof? It's difficult to say that they have presented that. They do have the Google searches from before she disappeared of the boyfriend of best place to divorce, the porn search as well that I mentioned last week that said like cheating wife gets impregnated, things like that. But they also have the Google searches, if you remember, the ones that happened after she disappeared that had the word murder explicitly in them. How to get away with murder? Can you get charged with murder with no body? Things like that to where if this was a cover up, would he have actually thrown murder into the search engine the way he did or into the actual search he made? Probably not, but I don't know.

• 37:39Annie Elise?

  I mean, the truth is that without Anna's body, it could be really difficult to convince any jury beyond a reasonable doubt. Absolutely. And I think it's pretty obvious, but I also think I know more than the jury probably knows because I know about the other two charges he admitted guilt to. I feel like, I mean, there isn't, I guess, a whole lot, but I mean, there's enough to where I feel like I have a bigger picture of the case as a whole than probably the jury does of just this one lens of did he murder her? Yes or no? Is there enough proof to say that he murdered her? Yes or no? But personally, I'm hoping that the jury uses some common sense and says, you know, like, hey, if she really did die of some unexplained medical event, any reasonable person would

• 38:23Annie Elise?

  have called for help immediately. They wouldn't have jumped to the solution of, oop, gotta get rid of her body, gotta dismember her, gotta cover my ass, gotta Google all of these things. Any reasonable person would have been like, oh, my God, Anna, you're not waking up? 911, call for help, da, da, da, help me, help me. That's not at all what happened. Instead, there was plotting, there was scheming, there were sinister Google searches, there were trips to buy cleaning supplies where he tried to hide and disguise with face masks and latex gloves. There was the fake alibi, there was the lie about her going in the rideshare and the taxi. But again, We don't, we, I don't think the jury knows all of the intricacies in this case.

• 39:04Annie Elise?

  So I don't know. I mean, the fact that he did all of this, to me, it definitely points to murder, in my opinion, and I'm hoping that the jury sees it that way, too. But as we all know, it's always difficult to know what they're thinking. So the prosecution rested. So then, as of Friday, or sorry, today's Friday, as of Thursday, the defense was going to present their case. And I mentioned last week, it's kind of been interesting because we've all been wondering, is Brian going to testify? The defense alluded that he may testify early on, saying, "We just are really excited for the jury to hear his side of the story," and things like that. So we're like, whoa, does that mean he's going to throw a Hail Mary and he's going to actually testify here?

• 39:46Annie Elise?

  And not only is Brian Walsh not testifying, but the defense didn't call any witnesses. They rested their case almost immediately. And I think that the judge was kind of pissed because the jury came in for court on Thursday. They rested their case. They could have, had they known they weren't going to call any witnesses, they could have gone to closing arguments right away. And then the jury could go out and be, you know, do, go for the verdict. But essentially, it was a big waste of the jury's time, which the court hates to do. Like, the judge absolutely does not like wasting the jury's time. So for them to be called in, brought in, only to be told, oh, there's no witnesses. Now, we're not even going to move forward with closing statements until tomorrow. You guys all have to go home. I think the judge was probably pissed.

• 40:30Annie Elise?

  But there is a possibility that things weren't planned that way, that they didn't know that they weren't going to call any witnesses until the morning of. And what I mean by that is very, it very well is possible that Brian was going to testify, and then the morning of just decided, I'm not going to testify for whatever reason. Either he's too scared, he's too nervous, they feel like it wouldn't be a good strategy anymore, whatever the reason is, and he could have just, like, flipped it on a dime. Who knows? But the point is, the defense rested, no witnesses, Brian not testifying, and it's going directly to closings. So today, right now, closing arguments are happening. And so- My question is, will the jury get it right?

• 41:14Annie Elise?

  How long are these closings going to be? How long will the jury take to reach a verdict? And I, I think we probably will have a verdict by the end of the day. That's my guess. I really do. And so because I'm putting this out right now, obviously the verdict is not included in this episode. However, I will be updating all of you in real time as these closings are happening right now on my Instagram. So if you're not following already, go search, do a quick follow. It's at underscore Annie Elise. And I'm going to post on there, anything crazy or wild that happens during closings, which I don't anticipate there to be anything super out of the ordinary, but I also will then post as soon as we have the verdict. So we'll see if they get it right.

• 41:59Annie Elise?

  Do you think that there is enough evidence to prove that he is guilty of murder? Or do you think that there is enough reasonable doubt for the jury? I think it's a pretty slam dunk case, but I don't know. I've thought that before and look where we got with Barry Morpheu, even though he didn't go to trial, but like then he was, you know, charges were dropped, then it was re, you know, refiled and now he is going to be going to trial. Casey Anthony, we all know what that shitbag situation ended up like. So I have definitely been surprised before. So I hope they get it right, but we will see. All right. Thank you so much for tuning into another episode of Serialistically. As it was a bonus episode, as you know, so we do do these episodes from time to time because there's something really important I want to talk with you about.

• 42:42Annie Elise?

  So make sure you're following the podcast if you're not already so that you don't miss those episodes. It's free, just, you know, open your podcast app and press the follow button. And then on YouTube, hit the subscribe button so that you don't miss these episodes. And YouTube has been like really finicky lately unsubscribing people. They do this like twice a year and I always see in the comments like, I thought I was subscribed, I had to resubscribe again. So maybe just double check that you are subscribed. All right, guys, that's what I've got for you today. Let me know what you think. I will keep you updated on Verdict Watch on all of the things over on Instagram, at underscore Annie Elise. Until the next one, be nice, don't kill people, don't join any cults, maybe stay away from people named Brian, I mean Brian Laundrie, Brian Koberger, Brian Walsh, it's not looking very good.

• 43:28Annie Elise?

  And be careful what you search on Google. All right.

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