#2364 - Brandon Epstein

Brandon Epstein is a mental performance coach, speaker, and author of several books, the most recent of which is "The Success Code: "Programmed to Fail: How to Break Through Your Mental Block and Achieve Greatness." www.thebrandonepstein.com WORKING KNIVES FOR WORKING PEOPLE. PROUDLY MADE IN THE USA. https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Don’t miss out on all the action - Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up at https://dkng.co/rogan or with my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, (800) 327-5050 or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD). 21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). 1 per new customer. $5+ first-time bet req. Max. $200 issued as non-withdrawable Bonus Bets that expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: sportsbook.draftkings.com/promos. Ends 9/29/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  Have you ever seen any episodes of guys who had on who

• 0:17Speaker 01

  fall into the camp who had their YouTube channel deleted and were talking about like wellness, like doctors talking about COVID stuff?

• 0:24Joe Rogan?

  There was a bunch of doctors that had their YouTube accounts deleted.

• 0:27Speaker 01

  Really?

• 0:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was a weird time, you know, it was, it's a weird time. The, um, the world of medicine is interesting because you've got so many positives, right? Like people are healthier, they live longer today than they ever have been before. If you get certain diseases, they have cures for it that didn't exist before. But there's financial incentives involved in prescribing medications that maybe people don't fucking need because they can make more money if more people take these drugs. And that's the problem, like there's, we gotta separate the baby from the bathwater and know what to throw out, right? And it's, you can't throw out medicine, like that's crazy.

• 1:10Joe Rogan?

  It's amazing, like what these pharmaceutical drug companies in coordination with all of these brilliant scientists have created is the greatest medicine system the human race has ever known, at least probably.

• 1:22Speaker 01

  As long as-

• 1:22Joe Rogan?

  Maybe the Mayans knew some shit, like you know what I mean?

• 1:25Speaker 01

  They're doing some magic back then.

• 1:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, maybe some like civilizations that collapsed because the Europeans gave them all fucking smallpox ironically. Who knows what the Egyptians knew, you know, who knows what those people knew about health and about medicine? But what we know today is that there's incredible stuff that comes out of the pharmaceutical drug companies. But also they fucking lie to you, they're also, they'll publish fake studies or not fake studies, but they'll publish studies that they've engineered to be successful even though they're not going to be. They'll hide data that shows that it causes side effects. They want to make money and it's not the people that are making the medicine, that's what's crazy. Like the people that are making the medicine are fucking geniuses. It's the money people.

• 2:10Joe Rogan?

  It's always the money people in everything. And that's the same thing with YouTube and that's the same thing with everything, it's the money people. And there's, there's, when you have a giant corporation, you have like all kinds of stuff going on, but the number one thing that's going on is everybody has to make more money every quarter. And that's where it gets nutty.

• 2:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, it does. And we also live in a culture that wants that like, fast food experience, right?

• 2:35Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:36Speaker 01

  And so, it's, we're so susceptible to it.

• 2:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:39Speaker 01

  For everything, for weight loss, to any issue you have.

• 2:43Joe Rogan?

  We're experiencing it a little bit in the comedy community. Because, and this is, by the way, this is like a normal thing that happens to young comedians. They want to be further than they are. Maybe they think they deserve more than they're getting. They think they deserve more shows, better spots on shows, and it does hap. And then there's also, you know, like, there's a competitive drive involved in it. So there's a little bit of delusion, a little bit of a competitive drive. It's very similar, I would imagine, to fighters. First of all, we just tell everybody, success code, you're a mind coach.

• 3:16Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 3:16Joe Rogan?

  You worked famously with Sean Brady.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:19Joe Rogan?

  Who I love.

• 3:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:20Joe Rogan?

  He's awesome.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  You talked about it a little bit.

• 3:22Joe Rogan?

  He's a fucking animal.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:23Joe Rogan?

  That guy's, woo, he's fun. He's fun. And he's got like, extra muscles on his back. I don't know what the fuck that guy does, but he looks like a turtle.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  Those tattoos come to life.

• 3:33Joe Rogan?

  We were all talking about it the other day, we're like, he looks like a turtle. Like, he's got like, a shell on his back.

• 3:38Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 3:38Joe Rogan?

  Just jacked muscle. Like, I know what that is. Like, when I see a guy like that, I'm like, that guy'll squeeze your fucking face into jello.

• 3:45Speaker 01

  He's scary.

• 3:46Joe Rogan?

  He's so strong. And what he did to Leon Edwards was like, holy shit, man, that's a world champion. To do it that decisively on a world champion? Like, he's completely turned a corner. He was always awesome. But he, post the Bilal fight, completely turned a corner. And a lot of that success, he, he attributes to you.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's interesting, he talks about this openly, but after the Bilal fight, that's when we started working together. And it was because, I think this happens to a lot of fighters, a lot of high achievers, is he built this identity of being unbeatable. Right? So all this belief that was wired around who he was, was, I am unbeatable. And so when he lost, everything shattered.

• 4:29Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 4:30Speaker 01

  And so he was broken. He didn't know how to pick up the pieces after that. It was like, how is this possible? I believe I'm unbeatable, but then I lost. And so we literally had to go into his nervous system. And it's almost like clearing out, almost like we're doing surgery at an energetic level, of clearing out all the bullshit around these new beliefs that are starting to form, like, in the confusion of like, I am beatable? Well, am I gonna lose my next fight? And we had to clear all that and bring him back into that state of being of, I'm unbeatable again.

• 4:56Joe Rogan?

  And how did you learn how to do all this? Like, what's your background?

• 4:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I was a college football player and my freshman year in college, I rode the bench and I was looking for solutions. I was a typical meathead. The most important things for me was getting jacked and playing football like. I was literally at a supplement shop looking for prohormones. This is me at 18 years old, just fucking hypertensive, big neck.

• 5:19Joe Rogan?

  And by the way, they used to sell some shit. People don't know, basically steroids at local supplement shop. There was this stuff that I took once, the strongest shit I ever took in my life. I think it was called Mag 10. Do you remember that?

• 5:32Speaker 01

  I remember that Mag 10, but I was.

• 5:33Joe Rogan?

  It was bananas. It was full on steroids. And after I got off of it, my dick was like, what are we doing? We don't have any more testosterone left.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  That was me at 18.

• 5:42Joe Rogan?

  I took it for like eight weeks. It was crazy. I think I gained like 15 pounds and I couldn't believe you could just buy it from a store. I'm like, this can't be that good if you're just buying it. And someone told me about it and I was like, really? And they're like, yeah, you have to try this. There it is. Is that it?

• 5:56Speaker 03

  I don't know. It's the 2004 edition.

• 5:58Joe Rogan?

  Anabolic dominance.

• 6:01Joe Rogan?

  I don't know if that's the stuff, but you definitely can't get that anymore, can you?

• 6:04Speaker 01

  They just keep banning them?

• 6:05Joe Rogan?

  What's in there? But here's the other thing about what's in there. Says who?

• 6:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, right.

• 6:11Joe Rogan?

  Says who? Who's checking it? We had a problem with my company with Onnit. When we first started, we were. We would send stuff out to third-party labs to get it analyzed, right? And we were finding all sorts of things in it that aren't supposed to be in there. Like different vitamins, creatine, all kinds of shit that's just not supposed to be in there. Like, why is this stuff in there? This doesn't make any sense. And this is what you hear about with tainted supplements with fighters all the time. So what happens is, we found out that some of these companies that mix your products for you. Say if you have like some B3, K2 supplement, you put them all together, they're mixing them in the same bin where they're making steroids. They're mixing them in the same bin where they're making creatine. Like, they don't give a fuck.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Not clearing the residue, just like leaving it in there.

• 6:52Joe Rogan?

  If you're shipping that shit overseas, they're just, they don't give a fuck, okay? They probably don't even want to be working there. They're probably like held against their will. Like, who knows where this factory is? And so, we had. Had to upgrade our factories. We had to, we had to figure out where the, the most ethical sources are and make sure, and then we had a third party test again and make sure we're on the level. But that's a real problem. So if you're buying something like that, they can tell you whatever's in there. They'll fucking throw Viagra and D ball and who knows what's in there. Who like, just because it says what it is on the label. There was, there's, that's the wild thing about supplements, right? There's no FDA.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  It's just whack a mole, right? They figure out though, like someone reports it and then they get rid of it and then whack a mole, the next one pops up. They're like, it's pretty much the same thing with different branding.

• 7:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. In some ways it's good, right? Because you can get all these vitamins without having to get a prescription. Cause we all know the efficacy of vitamins. It's legit. But in other ways, it's like, I read something about Amazon and this is crazy if it's true, is that I think it was like 30% of the supplements on Amazon were forgeries.

• 8:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think I've seen people putting fake labels and stuff and making it look just like it.

• 8:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. See what, see, find out what the number is. And by, you know, I don't know how they even determine that number. But it's not zero. And so I stopped buying supplements from Amazon. I buy fucking everything from Amazon and I've stopped buying supplements from them. I would get like Pure encapsulation stuff. And I was like, I don't know. I don't know if I'm getting it from the company. So I just buy it from the company now.

• 8:24Speaker 01

  So where do you buy it to know it's like pure? Is that good, good?

• 8:27Joe Rogan?

  Well, that company, Pure Encapsulations is really good. I have no affiliation with them, but I, I use their stuff all the time.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  I think a lot of people have that question though. Like for me, it's like, you just see a hundred brands on Amazon. You're like, well, which one's actually legit? Cause you know some are trash.

• 8:40Joe Rogan?

  We just gotta find a company that has like a great history of a bunch of people that have tested their stuff and that use their stuff. And Pure seems to be one of those companies. I mean, there's a, I'm just using that name because I use it. But there's a ton of like super legit supplement companies where you know, if you're gonna get 10,000 milligrams of D3, that's exactly what it is.

• 9:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. They're just above board. They know what the fuck they're doing. Like everything else, man. Like you can get the shittiest car in the world or you can get a fucking Mercedes, you know? They know what they're doing.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  But you know, people are listening to podcasts like this. We're just kinda like listening to influencers in a way. It's like, oh, Huberman, well, I trust you. So you have supplements that you represent? Alright.

• 9:20Joe Rogan?

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• 10:04Joe Rogan?

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• 10:46Joe Rogan?

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• 11:05Joe Rogan?

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• 12:07Speaker 01

  That's what we do now, right? We're looking to these, it could be doctors, but these people who we put our trust in. It's like, that's kind of like the bar that we're setting for like, alright, I'm going to trust you.

• 12:17Joe Rogan?

  Honesty like that is everything, right? And including for yourself, like when everything falls apart, like what happened with Shawn after the loss to Bilal. Like that, the thing in your head, like what it is, is what it is, man. You know, like Max Holloway says, it is what it is. He always says that. It's a beautiful way to look at life, really. It sounds simple, but it is what it is. Like you're not going to change it by freaking out about it. You're not going to, you're not going to. This is what it is. That guy was better than you. So how do you go, what are you going to do? How are you going to improve? What, what did you do mentally that was different? Was there decisions that you made during the fight? Was there something going on? And if you can't be honest with yourself, you're not going to improve. But if you can be honest with yourself, it can make you stronger.

• 13:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:03Joe Rogan?

  You know, there's a lot of guys that have gone through losses and came back way more dangerous. And there's other guys that go through losses and there, maybe they didn't go through a process like yours. Or maybe they had a little, some self-belief issues already and, you know, and they were kind of manifesting themselves before the podcast. Maybe they were starting, or before the fight, rather, maybe they were starting to get imposter syndrome. You know, like some fighters get imposter syndrome. They start winning and they're like, there's no way I can be the champion. This is crazy.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  And there's a governor, right? Like a governor card that comes up where it's like, alright, I can be successful up to this level, but anything beyond this is not safe.

• 13:37Joe Rogan?

  It's scary.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:39Joe Rogan?

  It's scary.

• 13:39Speaker 01

  But it's like that, that real animalistic primal part of yourself that comes out and goes. I couldn't even constantly tell you why, but like I can't go there. Like I can't get to that level of success. If I do, I'm gonna tear it all down. And we see people do that in everything.

• 13:53Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's a weird fear for people that are trying to be successful. Cause they're listening to this and like, that doesn't make any sense. Like, why would you be? It's because of the pressure of maintaining it. Especially, I think, if you came from nothing. Because if you came from nothing, that you realize how lucky you are. And you realize that, oh my god, look how successful I am. I'm a world champion now. Or, and whatever you do in life. And then you start thinking, what if I fuck this up?

• 14:20Speaker 01

  What if I can't keep it up?

• 14:21Joe Rogan?

  What if I can't keep it up? What if it all goes away? And what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do? What am I gonna do? And you start freaking out. And then if you go on social media, you start reading comments about yourself. So for fighters, that's a real problem. There's a lot of fighters I see arguing with people, fuck you pussy, I'll smack you. Like, don't do that! You are wasting so much energy. You, I'd rather you do heroin than do Twitter if you're a fighter. Like, get off there!

• 14:46Speaker 01

  But what we wanna do is we wanna get to them in a place where they're matter of fact about what they read. Which sounds like almost impossible for a lot of people who are listening right now. Like, what do you mean? This person's talking shit about me. But Brady is matter of fact about this now, like, truthfully. He's wired in a way that where if someone starts to talk some shit about him, he can laugh about it. He can just matter-of-factly not be emotional about it.

• 15:06Joe Rogan?

  But it's also because he's on a hot win streak right now and he looks awesome. And he's super confident. And he's got a lot of momentum on his side.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  It's a compounding of the belief from the physical experience and then the belief that we've wired into him. So it's both of those together, right? It's like the perfect confluence of those two factors coming together.

• 15:23Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right. And then the confidence that comes from these wins, especially the last one. I mean, god, he looks so good. He looks so dominant. And to do that with a guy like Leon, who, you know, we saw those Ousmane fights. You know, we saw him knock out Ousmane. He's really good, man. And for Shawn to do that was like, wow, that's a big turn of the corner. Not just a little turn, just a giant turn of the corner.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  But stylistically, that was kind of a fight made for Shawn though, don't you think?

• 15:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, it could be until you take into consideration the second Kamaru Usman fight, because Usman couldn't take him down. That fight was primarily a stand-up fight because Leon's takedown defense had gotten so good. And I think there was that bump in confidence after the knockout, and he really felt like the champion now. So for Bilal to just step in and put a stop to all that, and then, you know, to see then him lose the title to Jack Della, and then see what Shawn just did. And you look at the whole thing, you're like, what a crazy shark tank of all these killers. Leon Edwards, Bilal Muhammad, Della Madalena, now you got Islam Makachev in there, and it's

• 16:36Joe Rogan?

  like, who can keep it together the most is a giant factor.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:42Joe Rogan?

  It's a giant factor.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  I know you don't really follow football, but like, this is like the SEC in football, right? It's the division that has Alabama, LSU, Texas. It's like, they're all killers. So any given night, anyone could be anyone. And it's just like, who's gonna show up and execute the best? And that's what it comes down to.

• 16:58Joe Rogan?

  And then you got Michael Venom Page, who's like the biggest puzzle in the entire sport. Like, he's also a 170.

• 17:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:06Joe Rogan?

  That guy, good luck. Good luck training for that guy. Like, just good luck. Good luck, super tall welterweight who moves like nobody, who is a world point fighting champion. Like, that is a totally different thing, that point fighting thing. Have you ever watched that shit?

• 17:24Speaker 01

  No, I haven't.

• 17:25Joe Rogan?

  Okay. Michael Venom Page was, at one point in time, the best karate point fighters. And the way karate point fighters fight, they stop after one person gets hit. It's kind of like an elite form of tag with lethal weapons. Like, these guys are fucking good at these launches forward and blitzes, and they're really good at getting out of the way, because guys are blitzing at them all the time. So because of the style of the competition, they developed this very unique skillset of being able to close the distance extremely fast with a lot of distance in between them, and land very unpredictable shots. Like, he's super creative. And-

• 18:07Joe Rogan?

  He also knows how to wrestle now, and he also knows jiu-jitsu now. So like now he's a mixed martial arts fighter, but he's got this one skill set that's crazy unique. And I always said that's the thing that's missing in MMA. Because we see what happens when you get like a really elite boxer. We've seen what happens with a really elite kick boxer, a really elite jiu-jitsu guy or wrestler. We haven't seen really elite point fighter who learns all those other skills. Because it's a different thing. It's not like, like, you know, Pereira fights. He's not moving around a lot, dude. He's coming right at you. There's not a lot of dancing, and it's not a lot of, you know, fucking, there's not a lot of-

• 18:44Speaker 01

  Finest, he's just-

• 18:45Joe Rogan?

  Sanhagen moves. You know, Sanhagen is like constantly giving you different looks and overloading your mind. Pereira's stalking you, right? It's very-

• 18:54Joe Rogan?

  What MVP is doing is something totally different. Like, you can't even touch him. He's, he's hitting guys like, guys that have like a lot of experience in the UFC. He's hitting them with shots they don't see coming, they can't hit him. Kevin Holland was like, "Where the fuck is he? I can't even find him." This is nuts. The guy just launches himself out, you pops, you cracks you, and then he's gone, and you're like, "Okay." He's moving way faster than anybody you've ever fought before, and covers way more distance quicker than anybody you've ever fought before. It's like the difference between someone who, uh, is like standing in front of people and knocking sticks, and an elite fencer. You know, you ever see those elite fencers? They dive forward, they dive forward and crack you. This guy can do that with like knockout shots.

• 19:39Speaker 01

  That's wild.

• 19:40Joe Rogan?

  Because this is him when he was an elite karate fighter. So this is point fighting. This is what it looks like. It's really weird. Because the judges make decisions after each contact, but-

• 19:51Speaker 01

  Second Raymond Daniels here.

• 19:52Joe Rogan?

  This is Raymond Daniels, who's also, uh, he was an elite point fighter who then went on and had big success in Glory, and also big success in Bellator. Because of that style. It's like a nutty style. He pulled off one of the greatest, Raymond Daniels pulled off one of the greatest KOs I've ever seen in my life in kickboxing. It was a jumping sidekick that in midair, he turned into a spinning back kick to the face. It's, I've, I've done it to a bag before. I've never done it to a human being. And for him to do it to a human being in glory, now see if you, you find the kickboxing one, it's from glory. That, this is the nutty one where he did like a 360 degree punch. Watch how crazy this is. Play, play that because that's what that was, what you just had.

• 20:37Joe Rogan?

  Watch this punch. So he hits him with this spinning back kick to the body. He lets him get up. Now watch this.

• 20:45Joe Rogan?

  What is that? That is bananas. He ballet punched that dude.

• 20:49Speaker 01

  That's like anime. It's like Dragon Ball Z stuff right there.

• 20:51Joe Rogan?

  If that was in kick, like Mortal Kombat, you'd be like, get out of here bitch. That shit would never work. But I want you to find his, his, uh, kickboxing KO. I wish I could remember the gentleman he was fighting, but the guy he fought was legit too. And he hit him with a jump sidekick, spinning back kick to the face in the air. So it's like, that is a different thing. You know, Ankhaliya's not gonna do that. Pereira's not gonna do that. Like, those point fighter guys are different. It's a different thing. It's, you're, you're dealing with this whole new skillset. This episode is brought to you by the Montana Knife Company. I'm very excited to do this ad because my good friend Josh Smith owns the Montana Knife Company.

• 21:33Joe Rogan?

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• 22:48Speaker 01

  So I know boxing a lot better than I know UFC. I'm just getting more into UFC recently. What... Where's this guy in his career right now?

• 22:56Joe Rogan?

  He's really high level. In the UFC, he's gotta be top 10 in the welterweight division. But he shuts people down, man. He shuts people down in a wild way that I... You just don't see much. The only person who figured him out was Ian Gary. Ian Gary outgrappled him. He just got a hold of him and grappled him. But watch this jump sidekick. This is so bananas, dude. Watch this. Boom! Isn't that nuts? Jump sidekick to the body and in mid-air turns it into a spinning back kick to the face. I mean, not everybody can do that. But when a guy can do that, if you don't know that he can do that, you can get fucked up.

• 23:39Joe Rogan?

  Like, Ray Medanos can do some wild shit, man. And again, he's pulling it off against elite kickboxers.

• 23:46Speaker 01

  Unbelievable.

• 23:47Joe Rogan?

  I mean, he had a couple of losses where they figured him out. Like Joe Valtellini, he's the first guy, like, really brutalized his legs. Brutalized his legs. He just had a high guard, move forward. Valtellini's like, very classic, like, hard-nosed kickboxer. Lot of low kicks, strong punches. He just kept breaking down his legs to the point where he just couldn't walk and then he headkicked him. It's pretty powerful. So that style can be figured out. You know, MVP lost in... He fought Douglas Lima and Bellator and got stopped in that fight. Because just Douglas was a beast at the time and KO'd him. But it's just like, that is a different puzzle, man.

• 24:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:26Joe Rogan?

  It's a different puzzle.

• 24:28Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 24:28Joe Rogan?

  I just love the fact that there's guys like that now in this sport where you're looking at this sport that's like thirty plus years old now. And there's still guys that are complete innovators that are coming in when the whole thing's changing. You're like, whoa, okay. All right, now, now we're doing that. Now we're doing front kicks to the face, you know?

• 24:46Speaker 01

  It's an evolution.

• 24:46Joe Rogan?

  Now we're doing calf kicks, all of a sudden. Like, bisping went his entire career without getting calf kicked. I mean, that's nuts.

• 24:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:54Joe Rogan?

  When you think about that.

• 24:54Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 24:55Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. He's a world champion. Went through his entire career, no one calf kicked him. That's how weird this sport is. But I think what separates the guys is not just technique. It's, it's not just being a specialist in one very particular area, which is obviously a huge factor, but also the mind. And a lot of guys don't want to get help in that because they think that if they consult a sports psychologist, they're a pussy.

• 25:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, hundred percent. Being vulnerable makes me weak.

• 25:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Right, that's a core belief for a lot of guys. And so, when you believe that to be true, you're not going to create weakness within yourself. So you're not going to seek it out.

• 25:36Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 25:36Speaker 01

  And there's also a, a big stigma around like guys in this profession, like anything, right?

• 25:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 25:42Speaker 01

  There's like a range to comedians, right? There's a range of people who do what I do. There's, there's kind of pussies who do it, in a way, right? There's like people who are very like soft.

• 25:50Joe Rogan?

  Be in touch with your feelings.

• 25:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, like the two farts, like the woo woo, or two farts to like, hey, I'm gonna follow this textbook. Where really, this work is, it's art, at the end of the day, what we're doing. It's like, it's a, it's something you feel your way through and it requires years and years of practice to get to any level of mastery.

• 26:08Joe Rogan?

  That's interesting, you're talking about like managing your brain as art.

• 26:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, cause it's, it's not just the brains, the nervous systems, the whole body, it's the energy body system, right? So we're talking about, you've heard of like meridians, right, that run through the body.

• 26:21Joe Rogan?

  Is that all real?

• 26:21Speaker 01

  The chakras.

• 26:22Joe Rogan?

  I hear about that, but those, those are things that I hear about and I go, eh, I'll wait to talk to somebody about it that's a scientist.

• 26:28Speaker 01

  You could, you could call it whatever you want, right? We all feel like a, everyone feels anxiety right here, like in their solar plexus.

• 26:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you kind of feel it in the center of your body, right?

• 26:36Speaker 01

  Right? Boom, right here.

• 26:37Joe Rogan?

  You're like, huh.

• 26:38Speaker 01

  It's, this is the patterns that I see with all these elite guys I'm working with. It's like, I can just, my awareness with them is I can just feel the same thing they can feel.

• 26:46Joe Rogan?

  Don't you think that's probably constricted breathing, though? Like, constricted breathing, that's where you'd feel it, you'd feel it.

• 26:51Speaker 01

  I would say constricted breathing is a byproduct of like... A blockage in their body and they just feel it.

• 26:58Joe Rogan?

  Don't you think it's adrenaline though? It's a giant adrenaline dump and it's also there's an anxiety that comes with that if your mind starts spinning out of control. Like, do you, do you train?

• 27:07Speaker 01

  Uh, I used to train boxing, yeah.

• 27:09Joe Rogan?

  Have you ever done jujitsu?

• 27:10Speaker 01

  I haven't done jujitsu.

• 27:11Joe Rogan?

  One of the things that happens in jujitsu when guys first get started, like say if a guy has like maybe a distorted idea of how tough he is and he's like a big, strong, muscular guy. There's, those in particular, for whatever reason, seem to have a real problem when they grapple with a really good guy. Where they get pinned down and then they get like side controlled and mounted and they start hyperventilating. I've seen it, I've seen it like several times from people that have never trained before, but they're real buff. And they maybe have this idea of who they are and that, that idea is getting shattered.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:44Joe Rogan?

  Like just shattered by a guy that doesn't even look impressive, you know, but he's just manhandling you. And the, the hyperventilating thing to me seems like a bunch of stuff. It's like the battle with reality. This can't be happening. Oh my God, this is happening. There's the forgetting to breathe. There's the elevated heart rate. There's the dump of adrenaline. There's all these different things.

• 28:02Speaker 01

  It's all connected. This is like a, a domino effect, right?

• 28:07Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 28:07Speaker 01

  Like the constricted breathing, the not being able to think clearly. It's all a domino effect.

• 28:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 28:12Speaker 01

  Kind of how I operate is like the belief is the thing that starts a domino.

• 28:17Joe Rogan?

  Right, sure.

• 28:18Speaker 01

  And so if your belief is being destroyed that moment, that's what creates that domino effect of the body and the nervous system reacting the way it does.

• 28:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 28:25Speaker 01

  And so belief is formed in one of two ways. One is just, it's formed through life experience, right? Like the Goggins of the world. He's a very rare person who just builds belief off of doing it.

• 28:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  How many guys are like that in the world?

• 28:39Joe Rogan?

  By the way, shout out to my brother David Goggins who just completed the Bigfoot 200.

• 28:43Speaker 01

  Let's go, Goggins.

• 28:44Joe Rogan?

  That dude, that dude has no knees, ladies and gentlemen. He's got no knees and he just ran 200 miles through the fucking mountains. Did, what did, what did he do it in like 60 hours? It was posted today.

• 28:58Joe Rogan?

  Find out what his time was. This dude has no knees. Like, I don't run. My knee's pretty good.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  Well, that's

• 29:04Joe Rogan?

  In comparison.

• 29:05Speaker 01

  I think that's an example of how belief can actually break reality of what's supposed to be possible, right?

• 29:10Joe Rogan?

  Well, it certainly broke it in the eyes of his doctor. His doctor, when they first saw his knees, because he didn't go in for anything for a long time. When the doctor first saw his knees, he was like, "I can't believe you can walk on these legs. Forget about run thousands of miles. Like, this is nuts." He was not just bone on bone. His bone was distorting. So because it was rubbing bone on bone, it was like forming these like little mushroom curves at the end of it. It's like, it's a type of, uh, there's a name for it, like that distortion. It's called wolf something or another. He said that it's like theoretical, like they'd never seen it in a person before like this.

• 29:47Speaker 01

  So like, alright, if that exists, like that could work, but it shouldn't. Like, we've never seen it.

• 29:51Joe Rogan?

  Maybe that doctor said it. I should be real clear on that because this is, "I'm hearing it from David Goggins, you know what I'm saying?"

• 29:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure.

• 29:56Joe Rogan?

  And I'm like, "What the fuck?" Like, he's telling me that. "They told me it can never happen before."

• 29:59Speaker 01

  But regardless, he's, he's breaking what reality's supposed to be, in a way, right? When you compare it to like a very large sample size.

• 30:06Joe Rogan?

  He is, David Goggins is, as much as you would say, "This is crazy. He's ruining his body. Like, he doesn't have to do this." That's great. But what he's doing is he's carrying a torch for

• 30:21Joe Rogan?

  the human will.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 30:22Joe Rogan?

  In a way that very few people have ever done it because he's doing it publicly. He's doing it publicly, and that's why I think it's so important, and I, why I talk about it all the time, about how nuts it is. This guy has no fucking knees, and he's operating this way. So what does it say?

• 30:36Speaker 03

  I could try to find total, I don't know how they track it, but he was moving for a total time of two days, one hour, and seven minutes.

• 30:43Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so he did it in two days? I, I thought I saw online.

• 30:46Speaker 03

  It took three total.

• 30:47Joe Rogan?

  It took three days total?

• 30:48Speaker 03

  Because the 20 hours of stop time, that's like your rest time.

• 30:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh, right. Of course.

• 30:52Speaker 03

  I don't know where they list the overall. 200 miles. It says, it doesn't list it here, which would be the racetrack.

• 30:56Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. It says when he started and when he finished, right?

• 30:59Speaker 03

  Says he's finished.

• 31:01Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it doesn't say what time?

• 31:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know when they started.

• 31:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, is this all off the website, or is this track leaders?

• 31:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:06Joe Rogan?

  What place did he come in? 93rd? He's also 50. I mean, he's a freak dude, but he's like carrying this torch.

• 31:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:15Joe Rogan?

  You might not want to do what he's doing. I wouldn't do what he's doing, but I'm saying it's kind of crazy that this guy can, at 50 years old, can have these endurance workouts with world-class MMA fighters like Israel Adesanya. And he's got Izzy throwing up in a bucket, and he's not even breathing heavy. And he does like multiple of those workouts a day in silence. He doesn't listen to music. No one is telling him to do it. He's got no coach.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:42Joe Rogan?

  Like, he's out there, man. He's out there.

• 31:45Speaker 01

  He's just built it through pure willpower.

• 31:48Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 31:49Speaker 01

  I would say, most people, almost everyone else in the world, they don't have the ability to build that level of belief through their willpower.

• 31:57Joe Rogan?

  I don't know if they don't have the ability, but they don't do it.

• 32:00Speaker 03

  He's 23rd to finish.

• 32:01Speaker 01

  But if they don't do it-

• 32:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he was 23rd?

• 32:03Speaker 03

  His bib was 93.

• 32:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no shit. That's amazing. 23rd place, 50 years old, no knees.

• 32:14Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 32:14Joe Rogan?

  What a monster. What a monster. Imagine that guy was after you? Like, what a monster. It's just, it's beautiful. It's like a beautiful expression of will.

• 32:24Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:25Joe Rogan?

  Because that's all it is. It's just the will to go on, you know, and the discipline to continue to train like that every day. And then every time you test your will, you push it further. He's like, "I'm in the lab every day."

• 32:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:37Joe Rogan?

  Like, he's literally learning more about himself while he's doing this.

• 32:42Speaker 01

  So, why do you think, you know, millions of people read his book, and then such a small percentage of people can kind of replicate that example he's setting?

• 32:49Joe Rogan?

  I don't think you want to replicate it.

• 32:50Speaker 01

  Not to his degree, but to any degree, right?

• 32:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think it definitely moves your, what your waterline is, right? It moves what you expect of yourself, moves that up a few notches, because you know a guy like that's out there. If you didn't think a guy like that's out there, and you worked out at the Y three days a week and no one else did, you'd probably be impressed with yourself. "Yeah, I'm at that fucking Y three days a week using the Nautilus machine."

• 33:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:15Joe Rogan?

  It's all in who you're comparing yourself to.

• 33:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:18Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, obviously, I can't compare to David Goggins, but when I, when I know that a guy like that is out there in the world, it raises my own personal standard up a notch. I don't ever, I'm never gonna hit where, what he does. I don't have the time. He's working out four or five hours every day.

• 33:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:32Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy. I don't have that commitment either. It's not what I'm interested in. But him doing that has like raised mine. When I look at like Jaco's Instagram and every day it says 4:30 on his Timex. He like shows his, you know, he's got one of those, what is that watch called? What's that watch that he has that everybody wears? The digital Timex watch, it's a famous classic. Iron Man? That's it, right? Is the Iron Man.

• 34:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know what you're talking about.

• 34:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, this fucking bulletproof watch, of course, that's what he wears, like 4:09 a.m. That's when he gets up to work out every day.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  But guys like that, guys like you, you guys are dogs, right? You want it, you get inspired by that. Some people, they just feel deflated when they see that level, right? They're just like, ah, God, that's.

• 34:19Joe Rogan?

  No, man, you gotta embrace it.

• 34:21Speaker 01

  You got to.

• 34:21Joe Rogan?

  It isn't deflating because you're so far from the finish line. It's deflating. You know?

• 34:28Speaker 01

  But that's why there, there are fundamental ways to actually build belief within yourself. Like there's steps to do it. And that's what really I want to drive home for anyone who's listening to this is that you can build belief and it's not just banging your head against the wall.

• 34:43Joe Rogan?

  I believe you. Um, I'm sure there's systems to it, then that's why I really wanted to talk to you. But the, the whole idea of the meridians, like how does that factor into it with you? Like, how do you, what do you hang on this idea of like meridians in the body?

• 34:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I'll talk about how I came to know them, right? I was playing football and walked into the supplement shop looking for my next pro hormone.

• 35:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's right, I interrupted you right there.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  Oh, good, bro. We came back circle, we came back here.

• 35:11Joe Rogan?

  There we go.

• 35:11Speaker 01

  Like we needed to, so 230 pound, five foot three dude in there, just jacked. And I'm like, hey, what pro hormones do you have? And he looks at me, he's like, you know, he's very like zen type of dude. And he's like, what do you want it? And I was like, I'm trying to get on the football field, like what else could I do? I'm a meathead, like I need to get stronger, it's the only thing I can do. And then he's like.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  Say, "How do you feel?" Like, "How do I feel?" Like, this is me, 18 years old, atheist, don't believe in anything, biggest skeptic you're ever gonna meet in your life. And he's like, "I want you to try this exercise." And he has me just look off into the peripheries of my eyes.

• 35:47Joe Rogan?

  How long had you known this guy by then?

• 35:48Speaker 01

  Literally, meeting him. And he just starts going in on me.

• 35:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 35:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:53Joe Rogan?

  You think he was trying to have sex with you or anything?

• 35:56Speaker 01

  Well, we can get into that.

• 35:59Joe Rogan?

  It's just an odd thing to go right into meridians. How do you feel? Like, whoa, trying to get jacked.

• 36:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, he's just that type of dude. So I call him like a sensei now, because I've known him for-

• 36:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you know I'm still.

• 36:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, no, no, so I'm still-

• 36:10Joe Rogan?

  So he's just a weird guy?

• 36:11Speaker 01

  He's a weird guy, super weird guy.

• 36:13Joe Rogan?

  A lot of guys would have their hackles up, though. Like, "What? How do I feel?"

• 36:16Speaker 01

  Hundred percent. Oh, no, first I was like, "Fuck off."

• 36:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm looking for creatine, bro.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  Get the fuck off me. You know what I mean? Like, the fuck?

• 36:22Joe Rogan?

  Insecure male energy, posturing up.

• 36:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 36:25Joe Rogan?

  I'm, "This guy's trying to fuck me."

• 36:27Speaker 01

  Boy, no, he just made everything feel approachable to 18-year-old meathead. So he started teaching me these breathing techniques, like, from meditation.

• 36:34Joe Rogan?

  And he worked at a supplement store?

• 36:35Speaker 01

  He was working there at the time. He was studying for his neuroscience degree at a college.

• 36:39Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  To get his masters.

• 36:40Joe Rogan?

  What a, like, fortuitous coincidence.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:44Joe Rogan?

  To run into a dude like that where you're trying to get jacked.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  That's life, right?

• 36:47Joe Rogan?

  Right? It is, kinda, right? Like, think about it. You're looking for, like, the full meathead path, and you run into a guy who's like, "How do you feel?" You're like, "What? What fucker? I don't feel nothing, bro."

• 36:57Speaker 01

  I didn't, though.

• 36:59Joe Rogan?

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• 38:21Speaker 01

  Because nobody was talking about anxiety back then. Right. You know, I had crazy performance anxiety. I didn't know that was a thing. I was just like, Yeah. I was like, I don't feel good. I don't know. What do you mean? Like, nobody was talking about their emotions. Yeah. And so he just started teaching me breathing techniques. He taught me up at the meridians, very simple ones, that he's like, okay, visualize breathing energy and this is martial arts stuff, right? So much has to do with breathing. So he was into martial arts as well. Like, all right, I want you to imagine breathing up your governing meridian and your central meridian, which is like right on your spinal cord and up the center line of your body. He's like, all right, breathe in deeply here. How do you feel? I was like, oh, I just feel more confident. I feel stronger. So he started just teaching me how to do simple stuff like that and then bring it on to like the football field. I was a D lineman and so I needed to knock people over. Same thing as martial arts, right?

• 39:06Speaker 01

  I needed to feel grounded. So I needed to connect to my root chakra, which is, you can call it whatever you want. I don't care. But it's like the root part of your body, the primal, you know, ball sack area down there, the gooch that, if you can start to breathe into that area of your body, you will feel more grounded. And you can actually become more grounded. So I started using these techniques just to play football. And by doing so, I was like, I don't really care about studying the system super in depth, but I was just taking the tools that were useful to me. Like literally use these and use them to get stronger, like to bench press more. It was just breathing techniques along with visualization and they're just following this ancient eastern medicine. How did breathing techniques help your bench? So there's some breathing techniques, I'm sure you do in martial arts, right?

• 39:49Speaker 01

  You put your tongue behind your teeth and you can start to breathe in deeply.

• 39:55Speaker 01

  And if you start to visualize, bringing energy down through the crown of your head and then meeting it kind of like in the, just below your belly button there, you can just start to build more energy, more power. You're just focusing energy. That's all you're doing. And then if you visualize yourself lifting the weight, you're gonna lift it heavier. And so-

• 40:11Joe Rogan?

  How much heavier?

• 40:13Speaker 01

  There's a bunch of research. You could look up tons of different strength-based task studies that show that visualization increases strength. Like, for example-

• 40:21Joe Rogan?

  So that's just kind of a kind of visualization, you think? That breathing exercise?

• 40:26Speaker 01

  I was just stacking what was known as like basic PETLEP imagery, P-E-T-T-L-E-P imagery, along with these breathing techniques and visualizing a specific way.

• 40:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I thought that when they say visualization helps performance, I thought it was like long-term. I didn't think it was like right before they did a thing. I thought, I thought-

• 40:47Speaker 01

  I think it's both.

• 40:47Joe Rogan?

  It was like part of training.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  I think, okay, so there's two types, right? So there's like, for example, there's literally a study you could look up, and it's like a bicep curl. They did this study, there's four different groups. The first group just didn't do anything. Second group just did bicep physical curl. The third group did bicep curl plus visualization of doing curls. The fourth group did just visualization. The group that did the, just the bicep curl and the group that did just the visualization performed the same. They had the same increase in strength. And the group that performed the best was the one that did the visualization plus the bicep curl.

• 41:23Joe Rogan?

  Interesting.

• 41:24Speaker 01

  And so there's a bunch of studies like that that just show how, when you just stack these different tools together, they can be beneficial. Yes, in the short term. For like a fighter, for example, like this is what I'm training my guys. When we go into fight camp, every single time, we're just training the subconscious to be comfortable being in the setting. And just training the subconscious, my right, we're just wiring, just digging in those grooves of like, this is what it's gonna feel like, this is gonna be the experience, and just wiring it in a way of having success. And then what I do is I notice, I'm like, how do you feel? How do you feel? How do you feel? As we go along here, it's like, oh, there's doubt that's coming up. Boom, let's go in there. Let's get rid of that. And it's not an intellectual thing to remove doubt. It's a feeling thing in the body. And honestly, I don't care what we call it. We call it in the shocker, we

• 42:07Speaker 01

  call it just feeling in the body. You say, alright, I feel doubt coming up right now at this point in the fight. Why? Well- I have this memory that's created this scar tissue within my nervous system right now because this has happened before that I believe if I try to do this, then something bad is gonna happen, I'm gonna lose a fight.

• 42:23Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  So we need to actually accept that, right? Zen proverb, what I can't accept won't change. So you use these breathing techniques to accept your way through it. The body kind of relaxes through it. And then we let it go, and then we choose the opposite belief, and that's the alchemy of the process.

• 42:40Joe Rogan?

  Do you know how many people were involved in the study that showed that the visualization right before the performance was better? Jamie, did you find it?

• 42:46Speaker 01

  It's a different one. This is about hip flexors.

• 42:47Joe Rogan?

  Different one? Hip flexors? Interesting.

• 42:49Speaker 01

  There's a bunch of them out there, though.

• 42:51Joe Rogan?

  Study whether mental training alone could produce a gain in muscular strength. Thirty male university athletes, including football, basketball, and rugby players, were randomly assigned to perform mental training of their hip flexor muscles. To use weight machines to physically exercise their hip flexors, or to form a control group, which received neither mental nor physical training. The hip strength of each group was measured before and after training. Physical strength was increased by 24% through mental practice. Strength was also increased through physical training by 28%, but did not change significantly in the control condition. Whatever that means.

• 43:27Speaker 01

  That just means that people who didn't do anything, they didn't visualize, and they didn't do the hip flexors.

• 43:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh, in the control group?

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:33Joe Rogan?

  Okay, I get it. I thought they were saying a different thing. The strength gain was greatest amongst football players. Given mental training, mental and physical training produced similar decreases in heart rate, and both yielded a marginal reduction in systolic blood pressure. The results support the related findings of whoever that is, that giant name. Interesting, very interesting. So it definitely has an effect. And it seems like it definitely has a positive effect right before you're performing any kind of athletics.

• 44:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think these studies are over like at least a six-week period of time. So if you want to see like strength-based tasks improve over time, like they're incrementally getting stronger, right? It's not just then. They're kind of maintaining that strength, I imagine, as long as they continue to do the visualization.

• 44:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I wonder... You know, that's the thing is like, most people that go to the gym, like, most people who are listening to this have regular jobs. If they go to the gym, they don't go visualize.

• 44:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is peak performance stuff we're talking about.

• 44:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 44:34Speaker 01

  This is pro athletes, this is elite.

• 44:36Joe Rogan?

  Don't you, if you're trying to get better, like, what way to, you, you want to get better, this is good for you too.

• 44:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:42Joe Rogan?

  I know it sucks, you don't want to visualize your, your kettlebell routines and visualize your muscles growing afterwards, but it might be worth a go. I'd like to hear from some people that try it, because if that kind of results, that's pretty.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  Oh, it's crazy.

• 44:54Joe Rogan?

  That's pretty nutty, man.

• 44:55Speaker 01

  Like, like I'm saying, like, I did this stuff, and then I actually abandoned my football career because I liked it so much. And I went on and did research, I got a research grant, just to look at the effect of using some of these techniques on bench pressing performance, and also decreasing anxiety, because for me, I realized when I was eighteen, nineteen, I had crazy anxiety. I was like, alright, this stuff is helping, you know?

• 45:15Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 45:15Speaker 01

  Call it meditation, hypnosis, whatever you mean, if you can progressively relax yourself, right, sitting in a float tank, right? If you can just do that, if you can progressively relax yourself, your anxiety's gonna go down, your cortisol levels are gonna go down, the whole body's gonna thrive. And this is actually like, connected to so much that has to do with our health, kind of come a full circle, is I see so much, other professional athletes come to me with these injuries, the physical therapist working on it, working on it, working on it. Nothing's happening, it's just a nagging injury, every single time. If I can relax them enough and I can get to the root emotional core of whatever's creating this pain for them, and it's usually emotional, it's actually like a memory, or some kind of mental block, like, uh, the governor's coming in.

• 45:57Speaker 01

  Right? I'll see it, like, some guys in, like, the lower minor leagues, he's trying to go up to the major leagues. And it's like, these things will just start to express themselves when they're just about to get to that next level. And if we can move through the emotional side of it, the pain disappears.

• 46:12Joe Rogan?

  Right, but not in all injuries, right? Like, there's gotta be, like, legitimate injuries, where guys blow their meniscus out, guys have broken shin bones that have to be reconstructed.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  Stuff that can't be explained, like, a lot of times, right, you go to the doctor, like, I don't know what your issue is. Right, that happens all the time.

• 46:28Joe Rogan?

  Okay, well, that's a different thing. I mean, the realities of physical injuries that guys get from combat sports training are real. Like, if you have bulging discs in your neck and your arm goes numb, that's, it's a real problem.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:40Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's not just an emotional thing.

• 46:42Speaker 01

  Well, I'm speaking about things that are like nagging and you're doing the physical therapy and it's not working.

• 46:47Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  Okay, if that's you, then.

• 46:49Joe Rogan?

  So, yeah, we gotta be specific, right? So, you're talking about like weird stuff that does come up where they're almost like psychosomatic injuries because guys are responding badly to the pressure.

• 46:59Speaker 01

  And not even just the, the pressure, it could just be, it could be an injury that existed before, but it's just not healing. For whatever reason, it's not healing and it's just kind of recurring. If you can get to the emotional root that keeps that, I have fun with this now. I always look up whenever someone tells me their injury. I just look at ChatGPT, what is a spiritual emotional connection to this injury? And it's usually right on point. I'll be like, what do you think about this? They're like, oh, yeah, that's.

• 47:25Joe Rogan?

  Spiritual emotional connection to, but not to like legit injuries like a broken hand.

• 47:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean.

• 47:31Joe Rogan?

  You know what I mean?

• 47:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 47:32Joe Rogan?

  Like, someone breaks their hand, they gotta get screws and plates in there.

• 47:36Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 47:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's not, you can't look that up on ChatGPT. They're like, he broke his fucking hand, it hurts.

• 47:42Speaker 01

  I'll give you an example, like, I have so many of these, right? It might be like someone has like a hamstring that's just nagging, right? A lot of athletes, like, ah, I popped my hamstring and it just won't feel normal again, all right?

• 47:53Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 47:53Speaker 01

  I look that type of stuff up. It's like, all right, well, why isn't this going away? I work with like pitchers in Major League Baseball. It's like, my hip, it's like, well, why, why is this coming up now? And usually there's always like some kind of root and if we can get to it, we can relieve it.

• 48:07Joe Rogan?

  I bet there's a lot of guys too that have, if you think about making a living with your body, you make a living in a sport with your body where you're putting your body through explosive movements that could blow joints out, so there's always this anxiety.

• 48:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 48:19Joe Rogan?

  It all could go away.

• 48:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 48:21Joe Rogan?

  One twist of the ankle, one blowout, I mean, look at, uh, people all the time lose their careers in football and in martial arts because they blow a knee out or they blow their back apart.

• 48:33Speaker 01

  Bro, there's only like ten core beliefs that create fear in athletes I've seen. Like, there's not that many and one of them is the one you're pointing out right now is like.

• 48:40Joe Rogan?

  Life-changing injuries.

• 48:41Speaker 01

  Will I be able to sustain it? You know, the core is like, will I be able to sustain this or will I be able to continue to do the thing that I love?

• 48:47Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 48:47Speaker 01

  And of course, like, yeah, if you get injured. Then you're gonna lose it all.

• 48:51Joe Rogan?

  Did you ever talk to Weidman after he broke his leg?

• 48:53Speaker 01

  I did.

• 48:54Joe Rogan?

  Did you?

• 48:55Speaker 01

  I did, yeah.

• 48:56Joe Rogan?

  Does he openly talk about that? Are we allowed to talk about this?

• 48:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, he gave me a testimonial, so I think he's pretty open.

• 49:02Joe Rogan?

  You gave him like online, so he could talk about it?

• 49:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, he put like a video testimony.

• 49:06Joe Rogan?

  He's one of the toughest guys that's ever fought in the UFC. He's an animal. And that guy in his prime was fucking terrifying. But that injury that he got is one of the absolute hardest injuries to recover from. That broken leg, when they break their shin in half like that, very few people ever come back. I mean, there's one guy, I believe that's a heavyweight in Bellator. It happened to him, and he's fighting again and fighting well.

• 49:35Joe Rogan?

  I don't know his name. See if you can find his name. But Anderson was never the same after his. Tyrone Spong was never the same after his. Weidman was never the same after his. It's just, and psychologically, it's gotta be fucking crazy to think that you threw a super powerful kick that broke your own leg in half. And now you're expected, you went through a year and a half of hell to try to just get to the point where you can hit pads again. And now you're gonna go risk it again? Might kick someone's knee again and break your shin again and do that again? And then you can't walk again?

• 50:10Speaker 01

  What we're talking about is like that, just so we have physical scar tissue, it's that emotional scar tissue, you know? It's just like, it's hard for those thoughts not to come back into your head of like, I need to be extra careful here.

• 50:20Joe Rogan?

  Well, the reasonable thoughts.

• 50:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course.

• 50:22Joe Rogan?

  You know, if you think about it. But it's like, Chris had that style. Well, I mean, that, the kick that he threw on Uriah Hall was full blast. I mean, he fucking ripped that kick. And then, when I heard that snap, I've heard that snap a couple of times, and it is the most horrible sound, man. The sound of a bone breaking, like a person's bone breaking is like... Ooh, fuck. It gets you like in every cell in your body, like, god damn, that's awful. I've seen it a bunch. I've seen it, you know, at least half a dozen times. I've seen people get a bone broken.

• 51:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's traumatizing.

• 51:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, to come back from that is very hard, because we're talking about the anxiety of always worrying about getting injured, and then you get injured from maybe a kick you through, or Tim Sylvia Frank Mir, Frank Mir broke his arm, or Frank Mir Minotaro, spiral fracture from that kimura, like, fuck. Coming back from something like that is really hard. But what do you do for a fighter when you're trying to rebuild them? Do you, do you take each fighter as a, a, a unique project? And you just want to know everything about them? And how, you know, what, what bothers them about themselves? What bothers them about their discipline? So how do you do it?

• 51:44Speaker 01

  I'm going to explain what I do. It's going to sound woo woo, but I also want to contextualize it with the fact that like, I didn't believe in anything. Like, it's just my experience of like doing this stuff for seventeen years now and just seeing and feeling my way into this art, that now I speak about things that the old me, fifteen years ago, twenty years ago, I'd be like, shut the fuck up. Right? But, so what I do with any of my clients is I bring them to a very relaxed state, you know? Like, think of Custody of Mato, what do you do with Mike Tyson? Like, that's what I'm doing with these guys, right? So I'm bringing them almost into a hypnotic state, and I'm bringing them down into this place where they finally let go. They're no, no longer trying to like keep me out, defend, keep up this like identity they want to project into the world.

• 52:26Speaker 01

  So they can actually get to the insecurities, because I don't touch any of the beliefs that are working for them. If someone has positive beliefs, they're successful, I don't touch any of that stuff. All I'm trying to find is their insecurity, their fear, their anxiety, their doubt. And so I'm just digging deeper and deeper into their body, until we start to like, think about things they want to achieve, and it's like, ooh, what was twitchy there? Right? Something twitches in them, it's like, I'm feeling like I'm getting angry now, why are you getting angry? Right? Why do we get angry? It's because we're afraid, and we're trying to defend ourselves. And so if I find something like that, I feel into it with them, and then I ask them, I'm like, what would, what do you believe in be true that make you feel this way right now? And if I sit there long and I hold him in that tension, it'll eventually come up.

• 53:10Speaker 01

  And through that, we can release that belief. We can accept the way through it first. We can release it and we can reprogram it.

• 53:16Joe Rogan?

  How are you setting this up? Is this actual hypnosis? Are you doing like hypnotic techniques?

• 53:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And how did you learn how to do that? This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know. I buy one, The Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs.

• 54:02Joe Rogan?

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• 54:42Joe Rogan?

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• 55:15Joe Rogan?

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• 55:46Speaker 01

  Same guy, Sensei.

• 55:47Joe Rogan?

  Sensei. Does he have a cult? Does he have a cult that we could join?

• 55:52Speaker 01

  A one of one.

• 55:53Joe Rogan?

  So this guy taught you hypnosis techniques as well?

• 55:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, he taught me a lot of different things. Hypnosis, NLP, timeline therapy. And then I didn't go on and get a secondary degree. So I studied the, I created my own degree. I went to a liberal arts school in LA. The mental aspect of human performance. But everything I was learning that was helping me and my teammates, I was learning outside of school. So I was like, I'm not going to go get, spend $200,000 in getting a secondary degree when I'm learning everything else outside of school. So I've just continued to go to workshops, learn, study with different people who know how to do different techniques. And that's how I learned, very kinesthetically. The same way that if you're doing martial arts, you're just trying to go to as many masks you can. This guy jiu-jitsu, this guy kickboxing. That's just what I've done. I've gone and tried to find different people who are really good at what they do.

• 56:40Speaker 01

  And that's how I learned, through doing and actually experiencing the work of myself first. If it works for me, then I try it on my clients. If it works for them, I just keep it going. And I just, I don't have one technique. I use many different techniques. Whatever the moment calls for, that's what I use.

• 56:54Joe Rogan?

  Are there even degrees that you could get in human performance that would sort of match the kind of studying that you're doing?

• 57:01Speaker 01

  No.

• 57:02Joe Rogan?

  Is there anything? Like if you went to a major university, do they consider human mental performance and human performance, whether it's in athletics or chess or anything like that, where you have to really think through things and deal with pressure? Do they consider that a discipline? Is that something that they study?

• 57:20Speaker 01

  I think sports psychology, I think you can get a degree.

• 57:24Joe Rogan?

  That sounds very rudimentary.

• 57:26Speaker 01

  It is.

• 57:27Joe Rogan?

  Like sports psychology versus human performance.

• 57:28Speaker 01

  It is.

• 57:29Joe Rogan?

  When you think about this conversation that you and I are having, one of the things that we're talking about is the, how important it is. To have a mindset that allows you to work your way through difficulties and become successful at a thing and just get out of your own way. Everybody wants to do that. So if that's a real thing, why wouldn't that be taught in every major university?

• 57:54Speaker 01

  They won't let you smoke the toad at school, that's why.

• 57:57Joe Rogan?

  But they don't have to specifically advocate for it. But the kids are gonna do it anyway. But what's important is that they should recognize that this is a thing.

• 58:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:09Joe Rogan?

  Like if it's a thing, if we all agree, and I bet any competitive athlete in any sport has experienced anxiety. You've had days where you felt amazing and you performed amazing and then you've had days where you doubted yourself and you fucked up and you dropped the ball or whatever you did. There's this weird battle that goes on in the head and it's all, it has a giant result, whatever's going on in your head and how you perform.

• 58:34Speaker 01

  Yes. And you always talk about where do ideas come from, right? Like where do they magically come from?

• 58:39Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:40Speaker 01

  I don't know where they come from exactly, but I know how they're getting filtered. And it's just through the beliefs, because our belief system deletes, distorts and generalizes information. And the fact that nobody, not nobody, but many people don't understand how that filtration system works just limits so many of us from achieving what we want. Because we're literally like, you all know like the girl who's like dated an asshole and she's like, all men are assholes, right? She's deleting, distorting and generalizing like her best friend who's married to an incredible guy, right? But when you believe something, you literally shape the world to make it match it.

• 59:13Joe Rogan?

  Right. Yeah. You kind of do. Yeah. And if you believe bad things, bad things will happen to you.

• 59:19Speaker 01

  No, 100%. There's millions of pieces of information that you can see, smell, taste or touch in any moment. There's so much sensory information. We can only pick up on a few in our conscious mind in any moment, so that's where the ideas come from.

• 59:31Joe Rogan?

  I also think it's interactive more than we like to admit.

• 59:34Speaker 01

  Tell me about that.

• 59:35Joe Rogan?

  I don't think you can manifest your own reality. But I think you have a part in the process. And the thinking part about and the visual, not necessarily visualizing, but staying on a path.

• 59:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 59:52Joe Rogan?

  There's, there's an element that's going on there that's affecting reality itself. It's, there's, there's a weird exchange of energy between human beings and between reality itself. That I don't think we've figured out how to measure. I don't think it's as simple as, you know, life is a series of events and it all takes place randomly and good luck to you.

• 1:00:15Speaker 01

  The synchronicities are undeniable.

• 1:00:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's some stuff that's weird. There's some stuff that's weird that makes me think, without going full woo woo, maybe we just don't have a grasp of the full spectrum of all the things that are happening, of all the factors at play. And how many of them have to deal with, you know, we would air quote, "energy"?

• 1:00:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:00:36Joe Rogan?

  You know, that's where the woo woo comes in, right?

• 1:00:38Speaker 01

  Here's how I appeal to my rational mind to make this make sense, right? So, I think about beliefs are like the code of our mind that's constantly filtering in the information. All this code does is determine how I'm gonna feel. And that feeling is either gonna, either gonna make me wanna go towards something or pull away from it.

• 1:00:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:56Speaker 01

  So I just want my beliefs to push me or pull me towards the things that I want because it's gonna lead to me behaving in a way that gets to an outcome. As simple as that.

• 1:01:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, that's logical. But everybody's starting from a different place, right? So, there's some people that are starting from a devastating place of a lack of self-belief.

• 1:01:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:01:17Joe Rogan?

  And for those, it's just gonna be a longer journey.

• 1:01:20Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:01:21Joe Rogan?

  To get to some sort of positive outcome. But a lot of people just don't know how to begin the first steps. Like, they want to, like, if you just have like no confidence, you feel like shit, you feel like every day is garbage. Everywhere you go, you think, oh my god, everyone's gonna hate me. There's a lot of people that walk through life like that.

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  You want the first step?

• 1:01:38Joe Rogan?

  What's the first step?

• 1:01:39Speaker 01

  It's awareness.

• 1:01:40Joe Rogan?

  Awareness.

• 1:01:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, set an alarm on your phone every three hours just to ask yourself, how do you feel?

• 1:01:45Joe Rogan?

  But you feel like shit every hour, on the hour.

• 1:01:47Speaker 01

  But you gotta sit in that, right? Because most people like cut themselves off at like the, the head and they just stay in the thoughts, the negative thoughts. But they don't actually go into the feeling. So that's step one.

• 1:01:57Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:01:57Speaker 01

  Just to sit in the shit pit of full awareness of all the feelings. Then from there, set an alarm for the next week that go, okay. Feel what's coming up and then ask yourself, what were you focused on? Then you can start to take some kind of ownership over like, where are those thoughts coming from?

• 1:02:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  How is my focus creating the way that I feel, right? And you can start to start, you can start to see your beliefs by connecting those dots of like, alright. Why is that making me feel angry? So you have to feel first and then notice what you're focusing on. And then you start to come into this feeling of, alright, well, I'm seeing it, right? It's the, the four stages of learning. You're getting to this place of conscious incompetence. I see that I make myself feel bad. I don't know how I'm doing it. And then you can go, okay. What if I started to flip the focus? And I started to build that muscle? Because this is the way I think about the mind and all of these things is it's a muscle, just like the body. You can start to train it. Your mind just picks up on these patterns of repetition. Just like striking a bag, just like anything else. If you do something over and over again, right? You say the same things yourself over and over again.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  The repetition starts to make its way down to subconscious level.

• 1:03:01Joe Rogan?

  Well, Huberman talked about that, that area of the brain that actually grows larger when you do things you don't want to do and you build discipline. So it really is like a muscle.

• 1:03:11Speaker 01

  So you don't want to focus on the thing that is good for you because it feels like, ugh, yucky. It's like, I'm lying to myself. But that's the exercise, just flipping, just continue to flip it.

• 1:03:21Joe Rogan?

  But for some people, they don't know how to get started with these thoughts. Like, without hiring a coach. I mean, is, do you have it laid out?

• 1:03:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:03:31Joe Rogan?

  Like what, what someone should do like from the start?

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  The second half of the book is a literally playbook. Just do everything in the second half of the book.

• 1:03:35Joe Rogan?

  What I'm, what I'm getting to this is though, like, you know, you're dealing with a guy like Sean Brady. He's already tough as fuck. He's already a, you know, elite MMA fighter. He has this loss, but he's already a beast of a human being. But when you're dealing with people that don't have any athletic background and, you know, maybe they just have a job and they just have no fucking confidence when they're sick of it. They're sick of like living life in this anxiety pit of despair. And they want to find a way out. There's gotta be like multiple different things that have to happen, right? So it's not just the way you think. But there's also like actions. And I think.

• 1:04:11Speaker 01

  This is an action, right? Step into awareness.

• 1:04:14Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:04:14Speaker 01

  Feel it. The next set of actions, the next week. Step into awareness of what you're feeling and what are you focusing on that makes you feel the way. That's another set of actions.

• 1:04:22Joe Rogan?

  But do you feel like this is all possible for someone to achieve without some kind of physical exercise in coordination with it?

• 1:04:31Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:04:32Joe Rogan?

  Cause it seems like.

• 1:04:33Speaker 01

  What kind of exercise are you talking about?

• 1:04:34Joe Rogan?

  It feels, it seems to me that people with depression in particular, like one of the best cures for depression is regular exercise. Any kind of exercise. Whether it's, you know, fucking go jog around the lake, whatever, whatever you want to do.

• 1:04:46Speaker 01

  Well, listen, even before any of this is low hanging fruit. So like in the book, I take it, I have people do an intake of their life. And I have them also kind of just look at all the low hanging fruit of like, if you're drinking vodka bottles at seven AM in the morning. Like that's a low hanging fruit. You need to start to find a way through, drink one instead of three, right? There's all these like small steps you have to take.

• 1:05:06Joe Rogan?

  Drink one bottle instead of three, is that what you're saying?

• 1:05:08Speaker 01

  You know, the tiny bottles, come on. You know what I'm saying? Like this is like.

• 1:05:11Joe Rogan?

  If you're drinking vodka in the morning, like you've got bigger problems.

• 1:05:14Speaker 01

  Bro, I've, I've had clients who are like, you know, high level executives that are so stressed that they drink first thing in the morning. I've had, and I've helped them get off it completely, but it starts with something like that of like, alright.

• 1:05:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's a big duh, right? But what I'm getting at is I think if you want to have less anxiety, you gotta wring some of it out of your physical body as well. And that'll help you achieve clarity. You have to think about it like, like a nutrient that you're taking or brushing your teeth or doing some, take your medication. You have to really think about it like that. And it doesn't matter what kind of stuff you do. It doesn't matter whatever you like to do. If you like to do yoga, you want to go hike with a weight vest on, you want to do pushups in a parking lot, do whatever, do something.

• 1:05:55Speaker 01

  I couldn't agree more.

• 1:05:56Joe Rogan?

  You just have to do something where you push yourself, cause if you don't, your body stores up, it seems, like all this anxiety.

• 1:06:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:06:04Joe Rogan?

  And the reason why I believe this, one of the reasons why I believe this is like, I've had some of like the best mindsets ever in my life. After yoga classes and long stretching sessions where I'm working on something, I'm just like, you know what, I'm gonna. Stretch out here and I'll just sit and stretch for an hour and a half, two hours. And when I get up, I feel wonderful. I feel like the world is beautiful. I want to hug people. I feel so peaceful. I love doing that like right before I do stand up. It's like one of my favorite things is to really stretch out right before I do stand up. And I just feel so relaxed. It's so different. So you're carrying around actual physical tension.

• 1:06:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:06:44Joe Rogan?

  That affects your mind. That's why I think regardless of the tools that you use.

• 1:06:49Speaker 01

  All of it.

• 1:06:50Joe Rogan?

  Yes, all of it.

• 1:06:51Speaker 01

  I'm all of it. That's why I'm not just mental performance. Like it has to be all of it. It's nutrition. So important, right? The gut-brain axis. It has to be nutrition, exercise, rigorous exercise. How about your career? Living a life where you have like some sense of meaning, right? And starting to move towards that?

• 1:07:09Joe Rogan?

  Right. Don't do something you hate just because it pays you. If you have an option to do something that you might possibly love. If you want a better life, that's the life. Even if you're making less money, that's the life. You don't want to be doing something you don't want to do.

• 1:07:21Speaker 01

  You're trying to decrease amount of stuck energy in you.

• 1:07:23Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:07:24Speaker 01

  That's what you're trying to do. When you feel suppressed.

• 1:07:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:07:26Speaker 01

  You're not doing what you want to do, the energy gets stuck.

• 1:07:29Joe Rogan?

  And if you're doing a job that you hate and you know you could be doing something else, you just have never fucking gone for it. Like, ooh, that'll eat away at you.

• 1:07:36Speaker 01

  Back of your head, it's just always there. It's always there. It's always there.

• 1:07:39Joe Rogan?

  Forever and ever and ever. It'll always eat away at you that you never took a chance. You just, they show up every day, 9 a.m. Chong chong, punch in, fuck. Just waiting for 5 p.m. Fuck. And then you get off and you're tired.

• 1:07:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:53Joe Rogan?

  You know, and then you see other people that didn't do that and you, you feel like shit even more. And then, you know, it's like you're 40 and it's too late, you feel like, but it's not.

• 1:08:02Speaker 01

  It's never too late.

• 1:08:03Joe Rogan?

  Are you breathing? Are you alive? Okay, then you can figure out something better than what you're doing. You don't have much time left.

• 1:08:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, that self suppression creates a depression in any aspect, right?

• 1:08:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:16Speaker 01

  Anytime you're trying to just just like squeeze in, hold it in, hold it in, whether it's an inspiration you have, whether it's like, hey, I want to go play this sport.

• 1:08:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:08:26Speaker 01

  But I just never make time for it. That's self suppression. Like you have to make time for your natural inspiration to flow through you, and if you don't, I think that's what creates depression.

• 1:08:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's very hard for people to get going, to just to just to actually do something. And I brought this up a million times, and I'll bring it up again unfortunately. Steven Pressfield has an amazing book called The War of Art. And it's about that suppression that you put on yourself. That that weird, and he calls it resistance.

• 1:08:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:08:55Joe Rogan?

  And you know, he talks about summoning the muse and deciding that you're a professional and show up every day and I think it's the same with that. It's the same thing. It's like, it's hard to just get off the couch and put your shoes on. Like Goggins talks about it. He's like, I stared at those motherfuckers for half an hour sometimes. But he always puts them, I believe him.

• 1:09:14Speaker 01

  You think he stares at them for thirty minutes?

• 1:09:15Joe Rogan?

  Yup, a hundred percent. He doesn't lie. He's telling you the truth.

• 1:09:18Speaker 01

  That's wild.

• 1:09:18Joe Rogan?

  Cause he brutalizes himself. It makes sense that he stares at them for thirty minutes, but he probably literally stares at them.

• 1:09:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:24Joe Rogan?

  Fuck you!

• 1:09:26Speaker 01

  He's just cussing him out.

• 1:09:27Joe Rogan?

  And then he just puts them on.

• 1:09:28Speaker 01

  You don't know me, son?

• 1:09:29Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. Then he puts them on. So it's, there's something there. You know?

• 1:09:36Speaker 01

  There is. That resistance that Pressfield talks about, that's exactly what I'm talking about, right?

• 1:09:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's doing something to you.

• 1:09:42Speaker 01

  Whether you're an athlete, whether you're a creative, I mean, I think it applies to everyone, like the resistance is whatever's holding you back from following your natural inspiration.

• 1:09:51Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think a big part of that resistance is a fear of failure. There's a thing that hovers over people, this fear of failure. And that, that actually, it keeps you from just doing the things that you need to do to be successful. You get, you get, you get afraid. For whatever weird reason, it becomes a predominant fear in your head.

• 1:10:11Speaker 01

  Broken code. There's so many reasons. Like, I'll give you an example. So I ran like a big fitness channel when I was trying to make it, before I started working with cool clients who were like Sean Brady. And built a big fitness community. And I would see that like a mom who's not doing her exercise. And it's like, why don't you just do it? Just do it. Just get up, just do it. You deep, you go down into a subconscious and find, oh, well, I believe that if I start working out, I won't have time to be the mom that I am right now, and then my kids will leave me. Completely irrational, but subconsciously, that's what exists out there. For so many people, they think they're gonna lose out on something. And if they lose it, it's not worth it, subconsciously, than doing the thing that they're inspired to do.

• 1:10:52Joe Rogan?

  But it's also, sometimes people, their health is bad. And then unfortunately, they're not eating correctly, and that's why their health is bad, and they have zero energy. And so the daunting task of doing something on top of working all day, it's almost like overwhelming to them. And then if they have kids, and they have a bunch of, and then the option is get up at 6 a.m., like, no, fuck you.

• 1:11:14Speaker 01

  Well, that's the power of transmuting the energy. So just flipping the energy on, right? To go from, this is gonna make me a worse mom, to this can make me a better mom. And maybe that will give them enough juice to actually go do the workout.

• 1:11:25Joe Rogan?

  Maybe.

• 1:11:26Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 1:11:27Joe Rogan?

  I mean, there's gotta be something that you can do to trick yourself into having the energy to get started. But that's kind of what it is. It's like you have to trick yourself into getting started. And then, when you get to an elite athlete level, like Brady, it's gotta be about making sure the process is airtight, right? It's gotta be like, really tuning it in, right? Like, making sure it's finely tuned.

• 1:11:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. Basically, Fight Week, I want his energy, I want him to be matter of fact about everything. Just a matter of fact. Just neutral, just sitting right here. You know the feeling you have in your heart where you're just like, present? Just right there. Right there.

• 1:12:08Joe Rogan?

  But how do you get there? Like, what's the way to get there?

• 1:12:11Speaker 01

  So for him, at that elite level, it's going down, and it's clearing out anything that comes up during camp. It might be, and this isn't actually Shawn, but like, I work with a lot of other fighters. And for them, it would be, oh, I'm losing in some of my sparring sessions. And so their confidence is actually going down because of that. And so it's literally reprogramming that belief inside of them. And this sounds, woo, but if you ever want, we'll do a session, you'll actually be able to feel it with me. And what happens is, we transmute the energy to make them feel that it's okay to believe that even when they're losing in sparring, they're getting better. And so something just shifts inside of them. Instead of it creating a seed of doubt, when they're like, working on something, they're drilling something, and they're not winning everything, now it's, okay, I'm getting better. And it's just a feeling that shifts in them.

• 1:12:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, that is reality, right? I mean, as long as they're not getting truly beat up.

• 1:13:00Speaker 01

  Rationally, of course.

• 1:13:01Joe Rogan?

  Sparring in a good place.

• 1:13:02Speaker 01

  But that survival instinct, or that goes, I should be winning everything.

• 1:13:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:05Speaker 01

  Doesn't like that. And so sometimes we have to rewire those things. So that's what we're doing as we're going through camp is like seeing what comes up. What's decreasing confidence? What, are you dialed in everything? You know, I'm working with other coaches as well and making sure. Are they doing what you want them to do? And if they're not, what's going on here? And that's kind of my job.

• 1:13:22Joe Rogan?

  So it has to have, rather, it requires a very strong connection between you and the athlete.

• 1:13:32Speaker 01

  Oh, deep. I would say that nobody knows any of my clients better than them, except for maybe their wives.

• 1:13:41Joe Rogan?

  Better than you know them?

• 1:13:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's an extreme intimacy because I talk about something in the book called the core wound. So the worst thing that ever happened to you is the worst thing that ever happened to you. But some people have, you know, they might have witnessed a murder or maybe they lost a parent when they were young. Like something really bad. Another person might have been bullied when they're in the fourth grade and kicked out of a friend group. If we identify what that core wound is for them, that fundamentally hurts their confidence to this day and we clear that out, we can exponentially increase just their confidence, their self-belief. But the only way we get there is they're telling me their deepest, darkest secret.

• 1:14:16Joe Rogan?

  Right, but how do you clear it out? Once you?

• 1:14:19Speaker 01

  There's just some of these techniques. There's something like called, like hypnosis, right? You can use it with hypnosis, NLP. There are all these mind techniques that you can utilize to clear the energy, which clears the emotion.

• 1:14:30Joe Rogan?

  So NLP, that is like that Anthony Robbins stuff, right?

• 1:14:34Speaker 01

  Neuro-linguistic programming.

• 1:14:35Joe Rogan?

  That's what he does, right?

• 1:14:36Speaker 01

  I think it's part of what he does. I don't know, I've never worked with him, but.

• 1:14:39Joe Rogan?

  And did you go to school to learn neuro-linguistic programming?

• 1:14:42Speaker 01

  No, I just studied with someone who taught it to me. Yeah, I just learned very well one-to-one. Just like that's how I learned.

• 1:14:47Joe Rogan?

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• 1:16:52Joe Rogan?

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• 1:17:24Joe Rogan?

  Cause I know some people like really believe in it.

• 1:17:26Speaker 01

  It's all perception, right?

• 1:17:28Joe Rogan?

  What is it? Explain what it means by you say neuro linguistic programming. What does that mean?

• 1:17:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, I don't even know what the, I don't know how to explain neuro linguistic programming, but I would just tell you what it is.

• 1:17:40Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:17:40Speaker 01

  Fundamentally, you're just playing with perception, right? So if someone has, something's easy for me to get rid of is like the, the fear of flying. I had this baseball player this year I'm working with, every time he gets on a flight, he starts freaking out. Unnecessary. So what do we do? We imagine him on the plane and I have him sit, visualize being on the plane and starting to get to that place of anxious, where the thoughts, oh, the plane's gonna crash. He knows it's irrational, but why is he feeling this anyway? We have to go into it, feel the emotion, feel the emotion. Then I have him imagine, for example, a giant picture in his mind, in his mind's eye. And this picture is holding him and all the anxiety and the worst case scenario happening. And then we boom, get rid of the color in the picture. And then we imagine this picture becoming super tiny. And then we imagine it just disappearing.

• 1:18:24Speaker 01

  And then we put a new picture in there of him being able to fly, not crash, be able to do it all the time and be successful.

• 1:18:33Joe Rogan?

  That's it?

• 1:18:34Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 1:18:35Joe Rogan?

  What if it was nine 11 and he flew right into the tower right after he gave him that advice?

• 1:18:39Speaker 01

  Well, that sucks.

• 1:18:41Joe Rogan?

  How would you feel? Would that be it? You'd be like, I quit. I'm done.

• 1:18:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, they sound like very simple techniques, but it's something you have to experience.

• 1:18:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but it would, it would seem to me that it would be very difficult to get people to actually change their beliefs that easily. Like the idea sounds solid, but the, um, the actual process of shifting how you view the world.

• 1:19:05Joe Rogan?

  Depending upon the person is like turning a battleship around.

• 1:19:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is. It's heavy. I don't know. I mean, this is the stuff that goes beyond the rational mind. Like, if you were to experience it, you'd be like, okay, I get it.

• 1:19:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:15Speaker 01

  But it's a, it's a emotional experience. I mean, how do you, there's some things we can't explain, right? Like, how do you explain going through the veil in a psychedelic experience? It's something that you can't really explain when you come back on the other side. It's that kind of thing where it's like, when you're in the experience, it's like, how is this supposed to be possible? I explain the technique easier rationally, but like, what are you talking about? Same thing if you have this immense psychedelic experience and you're passing through the veil and you're seeing all these things, having this experience of interconnecting this, and you try to come back and you tell someone who's never had a psychedelic experience and be like, what are you talking about?

• 1:19:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's not enough words.

• 1:19:51Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:19:52Joe Rogan?

  No words work.

• 1:19:53Speaker 01

  This stuff goes beyond language. It's the same thing.

• 1:19:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you can say like, I saw a beautiful rose and I'm like, oh, cool. I know what that looks like.

• 1:20:00Speaker 01

  That's why, yeah, exactly.

• 1:20:01Joe Rogan?

  There's not enough words for a psychedelic experience.

• 1:20:03Speaker 01

  So this work, that's why I like, I put together the playbook. So I give people actual things that they can do because I understand that everyone's gonna work with me one to one and be able to experience this. But people can do these simple exercises. People can audit their life and they can see some of the patterns of thinking. And just the awareness of seeing some of the patterns you're thinking, if you study enough, you might be able to change it. Right? We've all had bad habits. And sometimes it just gets to a point where like, all right, I'm not doing that anymore.

• 1:20:29Joe Rogan?

  So this neuro-linguistic programming, do you specifically design this kind of? So you, what you, you do that as one of the things you do.

• 1:20:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:38Joe Rogan?

  Do you specifically design different ones for different people that you work with? If you're gonna work one-on-one with a client?

• 1:20:43Speaker 01

  Honestly, I don't know what I'm gonna do before I go to, go into any session. It's all just.

• 1:20:47Joe Rogan?

  Just feel it out?

• 1:20:48Speaker 01

  I just feel it in the present moment. I mean, you could think of it like, I have all these tools I can use and then I feel into what their issue is. And then I do my best with the tools I have to fix their issue. I'm just problem solving the moment.

• 1:21:02Joe Rogan?

  Does it feel weird to do that as a career? I mean, that sounds like a crazy job. It feels like there's so much, so much weight on your shoulders to try to help a person, like especially try to help an elite athlete. Like, knowing what to say and how to get their mind tuned in right and what to, what to introduce and whether or not this technique is effective, am I doing this right?

• 1:21:23Speaker 01

  I just don't think I, I surrender to something bigger than myself. It's what I have to do, is just allow.

• 1:21:28Joe Rogan?

  How did you know that you could do it, though? Like, how'd you know that this was gonna be like really effective, especially on someone like a fighter, where it's like, this is a really complicated gig? Like, you really, you wanna talk about a, a sport where you have to have your mind right? Like, there's no sport like fighting. Because any mistake you make, you, you're gonna get head kicked.

• 1:21:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I lose too, sometimes, right? So like Weidman, I helped him come back, his first fight back from after he broke his leg, and he said that's the best he's ever felt in his career going into a fight. He still lost a fight.

• 1:22:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's a physical factor there, too. That whether or not a guy like Weidman ever wants to admit, because he's so tough, because he has this incredible belief in himself. But a catastrophic break of a bone like that, when you're in your late 30s, that is hard to come back from, man. That's not simple.

• 1:22:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:18Joe Rogan?

  It takes a long time. And, you know, he came back, you know? He, he eventually reached a higher, a higher level than in his first fight back, but he doesn't, you know, necessarily look like Chris Weidman when he beat Anderson Silva.

• 1:22:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:33Joe Rogan?

  Or Chris Weidman.

• 1:22:34Speaker 01

  He's also 39 now?

• 1:22:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. 40? Yeah, unfortunately. And these guys, it's like, if you're natural, and he's natural, they, they get to a certain point where the body just can't keep up with the brain. Like, their brain is so strong, and they're so tough, but their body's not a 24-year-old's body anymore. It doesn't move right anymore. And this accumulation of injuries, regardless of your belief system.

• 1:22:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:56Joe Rogan?

  It's just, your foot doesn't work anymore, bro.

• 1:22:58Speaker 01

  I mean, that was me understanding like when I was 18 years old, I'm like, I'm not that good at football. Like, I don't have the physical gifts. Like, I'm just not that athletic. I'm not gonna run that fast. And when, so this is how I discovered it, right? I started to learn these techniques. Like, I can do things like get rid of someone's headache very easily with some of these techniques. So like, I have a teammate had a terrible headache. I'd be like, alright, let's do some of these hypnosis relaxation techniques. He's like, my headache's gone. I'm like, I'm way better than this than I was at football. And that was a spark within me that made me want to.

• 1:23:26Joe Rogan?

  See, me, I would take him to the hospital. I'm like, bro, you might be having a stroke. Let's get you to the hospital.

• 1:23:30Speaker 01

  It's just a headache, come on.

• 1:23:33Joe Rogan?

  When a guy who's a tough guy complains about a headache, I always get concerned.

• 1:23:37Speaker 01

  He wasn't that tough.

• 1:23:38Joe Rogan?

  Well, he's a football player. He's gotta be tough. Bro, you wanna see tough? Look at LeBron James's feet. I was looking at LeBron James's feet today online. Have you seen him, Jamie? Yeah, for sure. Bro, how does that guy play elite basketball?

• 1:23:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:52Joe Rogan?

  With those fucked up feet? Like, his feet are so broken because of all the years of exploding and twisting and turning and... He's been playing professionally for how long? 20 years, which is...

• 1:24:05Speaker 01

  21, I think.

• 1:24:05Joe Rogan?

  That's bananas.

• 1:24:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't understand that.

• 1:24:08Joe Rogan?

  Think about the amount of explosions he's forced his feet to perform. Imagine moving back and forth and you weigh 250 pounds? Like, that's nuts. That's so much force.

• 1:24:19Speaker 01

  He's not the same species as those. He's something else.

• 1:24:21Joe Rogan?

  Disciplined, bro, but look at those toes. That is bananas. That's bananas. Like, his, his toes just take, like, sharp turns.

• 1:24:32Speaker 03

  It may or may not be accurate.

• 1:24:33Joe Rogan?

  It might not be, right? That other one looked better. Let me see that.

• 1:24:37Speaker 01

  That looks a little better.

• 1:24:38Speaker 03

  It's a little over it, but...

• 1:24:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a little over it. But he might be getting it. Maybe he did that on purpose. Maybe he did that for the picture, just to be silly.

• 1:24:46Speaker 03

  This is the one that went viral a while ago. It was on the beach.

• 1:24:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's pretty obvious. So his big toe goes under the next toe. It's that twisted in. That's obvious.

• 1:24:55Speaker 03

  It also doesn't look the same foot as that foot.

• 1:24:57Joe Rogan?

  You know, Brian Simpson was having a problem with that too, cuz he's got wide feet, and I told him about yoga toes. That stuff works, man. You ever use those?

• 1:25:05Speaker 01

  Mm-mm.

• 1:25:05Joe Rogan?

  They stretch your feet out. You put your toes in there and they stretch. It's like a little rubber stopper in between each little toesy.

• 1:25:12Speaker 01

  I need some of that.

• 1:25:12Joe Rogan?

  And it stretches your foot out and makes it, you know, feel better. It relieves the ten- the pressure that you're getting with narrow-toed shoes, where it's squishing in it in the front, fucking your feet up.

• 1:25:23Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 1:25:24Joe Rogan?

  But to be that tough to play basketball with that kind of a foot for twenty-plus years, that's nuts.

• 1:25:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's taking a lot of-

• 1:25:32Joe Rogan?

  To be gauding and run with no knees. Nuts. Nuts.

• 1:25:36Speaker 01

  That's, that's what inspiration does, though. You know, I think these guys just want it. They want it. They wanna keep going. They wanna keep pushing it. They wanna see what's possible.

• 1:25:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I was watching a fight today. Um, one of my little chat groups that I have with Dean Thomas and Matt Sarah and John Rallo. Um, a guy was, uh, fighting in a box- it looks like a boxing match, and he has one leg. So he's hopping around with one leg trying to fuck this guy up. So if you ever think like, maybe... Here, let me find this. You ever think like, maybe life has been too hard on me? Maybe the barriers in front of me are insurmountable. Try fucking doing what this guy's doing. Cause this is really kinda crazy. And I don't understand what they're doing because, uh, they're, they're barefoot,

• 1:26:24Joe Rogan?

  but they're, um, not kicking. And I guess the guy can't kick, cause he only has one leg. Maybe they agreed, no kicking. But like, why put a shoe on?

• 1:26:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:34Joe Rogan?

  You know, I don't understand why. If you're- if you guys aren't gonna kick, why don't you have shoes on? It's better for your grip. But this guy's hopping around. Did you get it, Jamie?

• 1:26:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:41Joe Rogan?

  This guy's hopping around throwing punches with literally one leg. Look at this.

• 1:26:45Speaker 01

  Ooh!

• 1:26:46Joe Rogan?

  How nuts is that?

• 1:26:49Joe Rogan?

  One thing you do have to think, it sucks that he only has one leg, but I bet he weighs about forty pounds lighter that way.

• 1:26:55Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:26:56Joe Rogan?

  So like, he's probably got some strong-ass arms. But you can only generate so much force with one leg.

• 1:27:01Speaker 01

  He can't even balance on one leg.

• 1:27:03Joe Rogan?

  I know, his balance is insane, man. And his movement's really good, too. Like, there's people that have two legs that don't move that good. It's nuts.

• 1:27:11Joe Rogan?

  The other dude is like, "I wish I could leg kick you."

• 1:27:15Joe Rogan?

  Like, "That's so not fair. You can guarantee that dude can't kick you back."

• 1:27:20Speaker 01

  So explosive.

• 1:27:21Joe Rogan?

  But it's just pretty nutty that, you know, he's still willing to fight, and he's hitting this guy. I mean, it's-

• 1:27:28Speaker 01

  The human will.

• 1:27:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:30Speaker 01

  It's incredible.

• 1:27:31Joe Rogan?

  It is incredible. The human mind can do very strange things if you let it keep going down a path and keep getting better and better.

• 1:27:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:27:39Joe Rogan?

  You know, you can get to a very strange place that, you know, a lot of people don't want to believe exists.

• 1:27:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, just to keep expanding the possibilities, right? Expose yourself to new things. I think that's why, like, people in my field traditionally, like, they're not doing psychedelics. Like, it's not really a thing that people do.

• 1:27:59Joe Rogan?

  Why do you think that is? I would imagine, I would think that anybody that's really exploring how the mind works-

• 1:28:04Speaker 01

  I'd say maybe more sports psychology, stuff like that, because they're more clinical. They're more clinical people, you know, they're doctors, they're-

• 1:28:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:10Speaker 01

  They're people who are much more clinical and methodical about things, but for me, like, my full ego death through the Bufo toad was fundamentally the most important part of me learning to do what I do. Because in that experience, it created enough space between me and all my beliefs, you know? It's that, like, that neuroplasticity that gets created in those moments afterwards where you can actually kind of see things. You can kind of see the forest from the trees. If you never have that experience, then, like, this is something people talk about all the time, right? Is the whole thing, the ego is the enemy.

• 1:28:42Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:28:43Speaker 01

  It's like, well, it depends what you're considering the ego, because you can't get rid of the ego. If the ego dies, then you're just in the oneness, right? So you need the ego, but you have to build it up, and I think for fighters especially, like, they need massive egos, but they need healthy egos, egos that our programs succeed.

• 1:29:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, no ego is not attainable. If you're a human being, you're gonna have an ego. You just have to figure out how to manage it, and don't let it burn your house down. You know, it's like that custom auto quote about fear. Fear is like fire. You can cook your food with it, or if it gets out of control, it'll burn your house down. Yeah. I think that's the case with many, many things, including psychedelics, by the way. I think there's a lot of people that burn their house down. Yeah. I think there's a lot of people that go really far and they lose their grip on reality. And reality gets real slippery, and they sort of try to redefine reality to fit their own narrative. And they seem schizophrenic. Yeah. I've seen that from multiple people that have taken too many psychedelics. They're just abusing it. You gotta use it like a tool.

• 1:29:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, yeah, but it's also, everybody has their own specific way that they interact with the world. And if you're taking psychedelics to justify your specific way of interacting with the world. Yeah. And then you start indoctrinating other people to your specific way of running the world. And you try to like have a branch-off civilization, like, that's like this thing that happens to guys in particular. You don't see a lot of like female guru psychedelic ladies, you know? Or they're more like mother figures, but not like gurus. The gurus are all dudes, and it almost always. Sex.

• 1:30:27Joe Rogan?

  There's always a couple of boys down the pussy. Almost always, or dick, depending on what you're into. Yeah. Because the guy out here in Texas, in Austin, was, um, there was a, there's a building that Ron White loved, called the One World Theater, that we were actually in contract, under contract for, before I wound up buying the mothership. And that place was run by a cult. And this guy was a gay guy. He was a gay porn star and a hypnotist. There you go. That's a deadly combo right there. Who was teaching yoga to folks in West Hollywood and slowly but surely formed a cult. And then after Waco, remember the Waco thing went down?

• 1:31:08Joe Rogan?

  Uh, everybody panicked and the cult awareness network apparently was like looking for him and looking into him, because like a lot of the family was like, "We lost my son. He went to that..." So then he decided to change his name, and then he moved to Austin. And he had his followers build him a theater so he could dance in front of them, and that's here. And it was, it's, there's a crazy documentary called Holy Hell. But this guy, this is what's crazy.

• 1:31:35Joe Rogan?

  The people that hated him at the end of the documentary, the people that said that he was a giant scammer and he was a piece of shit and they wished they had never met him. They all said they had gone through this thing called the knowing and the knowing was like he would withhold it from them and they a lot of them are like really upset they weren't getting the knowing. And it was this thing that he would do where he'd make them, I think they were on their knees. And he would touch their face and tell them that it was gonna happen and they would all say the same thing. They would all say afterwards, it was one of the most beautiful, the most beautiful experience of their life. That they felt a complete total connection with God. And it changed their worldview and their perception forever. Like it's available in your mind if you believe, if you truly believe.

• 1:32:21Joe Rogan?

  And they truly believed that this guy was like a legitimate mystic, that he was a legitimate guru. And because they believed that. Even though this guy's a gay porn star and a hypnotist and a fucking psychopath, because they believed that when he put his hands on them, they felt it. So what a complicated relationship. You have this guy who, uh, one of the guys left the cult and he's like, hey, man, uh. This guy's been hypnotizing me and fucking me for 10 years. And then everybody was like, me too. It got crazy. And then they all wound up leaving. But he also did this thing for them. Yeah. Where he connected them to God. Yes. Which is really nuts, man. Cause you would think, fuck that guy, that guy sucked, can't believe it. But they're all like, but there was this one day.

• 1:33:06Joe Rogan?

  And this one, it was almost like a part of the little cosmic joke of life. Yes, it is a cosmic joke. This fucking weirdo possesses the ability to literally connect you with God. But he behaves like a demon. He's just buttfucking dudes and just taking all their money and it's just madness. But what he's able to do when he touches you is real. What a cosmic joke.

• 1:33:34Speaker 01

  I believe it. You know, there's all those like Indian gurus, right? Where like people tell the stories of like, all they had to do is like gaze on me or touch me. I've never experienced any of this and then you just feel like you've had experience with God.

• 1:33:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I believe it. I believe if you believe it. That's what I think. I think there are guys that are living a very different life. Just like, you know, we're talking about like someone who could get to this David Goggins level of discipline and physical will. I think there's guys like that with meditation and I think there's guys who get so far out there. And if you recognize that they're so far out there, I bet you sync up with the way they're seeing the world. You let them think for you and you believe in them and then they do something to you. They put their hands on you or whatever they do. You believe it's going to happen and then your mind allows it to happen.

• 1:34:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:21Joe Rogan?

  I think we have access to a bunch of different states of consciousness. We just don't know the tools to to access it. We don't know the code to crack to open them. And for some people, it's a near death experience, which is like seems to be a chemical reaction. It's like an undeniable reaction that people have when they come back from the dead. For other people, it's not. For other people, like sometimes it's some sort of a life-changing revelation. For some people, it's like it's falling in love or having a child. Or there's something that happens that like rewires the way they see the world. And whatever those states are that are inside of us. I can't imagine why there's not

• 1:35:08Joe Rogan?

  courses at major universities studying how to access this stuff. Studying how to achieve endogenous states

• 1:35:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:35:16Joe Rogan?

  of psychedelic experiences like that like James Nestor's book when he talks about holotropic breathing and all those different.

• 1:35:24Speaker 01

  Do you ever do that?

• 1:35:25Joe Rogan?

  I've done a bunch of it. Yeah, I've had like legit trips from breathing.

• 1:35:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guide some guys, some of my clients like they leave their body. You know, they have experiences of like leaving their body.

• 1:35:35Joe Rogan?

  It feels very weird. You can get it, especially when you do it. I like to do breathing exercises in a tank.

• 1:35:42Speaker 01

  In a float tank?

• 1:35:43Joe Rogan?

  In the, yeah, you do it in a float tank.

• 1:35:44Speaker 01

  Oh, that's cool.

• 1:35:46Joe Rogan?

  Because the flow tank itself is a psychedelic experience. Totally natural. It's the best one because you, there's no side effects and you can just open the door and it's over. Anytime you're freaking out, like, ah, can't take it, open the door.

• 1:35:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:58Joe Rogan?

  And then, next time, stay in a little longer and then settle in.

• 1:36:01Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:36:02Joe Rogan?

  But, doing breathing exercises in there, I mean, you might as well be taking mushrooms. You can, you can get some bizarre experiences doing that.

• 1:36:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. So we talked about like, how do we get people on this path? I think it's these types of experiences that like, open a doorway. It's like a hard reset. I think actually for most people, they should not do psychedelics.

• 1:36:20Joe Rogan?

  Most people?

• 1:36:21Speaker 01

  People who are like, in a really dark state.

• 1:36:23Joe Rogan?

  You think most people are in a dark, oh, okay.

• 1:36:25Speaker 01

  No, no, no. Most people who are in a very dark state, they're struggling with really bad depression. I don't think they should go right to psychedelics. I think there's steps before that. I think they can do autopic breathing, flow tanks.

• 1:36:35Joe Rogan?

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• 1:37:19Joe Rogan?

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• 1:38:04Joe Rogan?

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• 1:38:35Speaker 01

  There's different-

• 1:38:35Joe Rogan?

  Just get healthy first, too, right?

• 1:38:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:38:37Joe Rogan?

  Take some steps.

• 1:38:38Speaker 01

  But like, there's things you can-

• 1:38:40Joe Rogan?

  You know one of the things that's a really good thing to tell people to do? Find a fun, physical hobby. Something that you can get good at. Whatever it is, whether it's fucking pickleball or whatever it is.

• 1:38:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:50Joe Rogan?

  Find a fun, physical hobby that forces you to do a little bit of activity. You know, it doesn't have to be super strenuous, but something that you actually like doing.

• 1:38:58Speaker 01

  It's social even better.

• 1:38:59Joe Rogan?

  You get moving. You get moving. And then there's also the thing about getting good at something that for whatever reason, like, really helps people. Like, if you really focus on getting good at something, that thing becomes the puzzle. Instead of just like dealing with all the anxiety of life, then that becomes your focus. Your focus becomes getting good at this thing.

• 1:39:17Speaker 01

  Humans need something to pour their energy into.

• 1:39:20Joe Rogan?

  100%. And if you don't have that, you feel lost. And that's a lot of people in this world. And that's the problem with just having a regular job, which also saps you of your energy, you know?

• 1:39:31Speaker 01

  Absolutely. It could be something very simple, you know? But just find something that you just want to move on a path. Just get on a path. And that just incremental progress feels good.

• 1:39:41Joe Rogan?

  And the best thing is physical. Anything that you can do, that's why jujitsu is so awesome. Because you could find that, you find the physical struggle, but also this incredible mental puzzle that you're figuring out every day. And then also you're dealing with all these anxieties and emotions and these weird feelings like, "Fuck, I don't want to roll with him. Oh, god damn it, he's gonna get me." And you're rolling with people, then you gotta learn how to relax, you gotta learn, and they're like, "Oh, my god, he didn't tap me this session." Like, maybe you got dominated, but at least you didn't tap. And then, next time, maybe you reverse someone. Maybe you sweep someone that you never swept before. And you're just like, "Oh, my God, I'm getting better at this." And you've got this puzzle, and then you've also got this extreme physical activity, where the rest of the day seems so easy.

• 1:40:26Joe Rogan?

  It seems so, like, so relaxing. Yeah. No matter what happens, you're so calm. Because you've been getting your fucking legs yanked on, and your neck yanked on, and fucking taken down, and side control crushed, and getting arm-trangled, and... This is easy. Like, no matter what you experience outside of that, your bar for what sucks is like, your thing you do the most that sucks so hard is what you love. Yeah. Which is nuts. So it cures you, in a lot of ways. And it's, I think it's the remedy for young men. There's a lot of men that just... And it's filled with nerds. You need to know that, too. Like, that, it's not meatheads. You think it's meatheads. It's mostly not.

• 1:41:08Joe Rogan?

  Mostly, it's like, really intelligent people that excel at this physical puzzle. And then, through that thing, they develop all this confidence and become, like, much cooler people, much more interesting to hang out with. Like, all my friends that are, like, black belts in jiu-jitsu, they're all interesting. They're all cool to talk to. Like, if I can talk to a guy, and they tell me they're a black belt in jiu-jitsu, I'm like, "Oh, okay. You've gone through the whole thing. Like, you've gone through some shit." Like, okay, I guarantee you, you and I can find common ground. Like, we could talk. Yeah. It's like, there's things that are out there that are available to you that are a vehicle for developing your human potential. That's what I was taught when I was a kid, and I was learning Taekwondo. That's how they described it. I never forgot that. A vehicle for developing your human potential.

• 1:41:53Joe Rogan?

  And I was like, "That's perfect." Because I think you don't just do it from thinking about stuff and thinking different. I think you need physical stuff that you do. And... The best physical stuff is scary stuff.

• 1:42:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, rite of passage.

• 1:42:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:08Speaker 01

  We don't have many rites of passages.

• 1:42:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:10Speaker 01

  And doing any type of martial arts and having to compete is like, oh, this is scary.

• 1:42:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:14Speaker 01

  It's building, it's building, it's building, what's gonna happen? And you kinda have to feel, you have to face that fear of death in a way. It's like, you know you're not gonna die, but in a way, it feels like it when you're going to the competition. It's like, this person's gonna try to hurt me.

• 1:42:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:25Speaker 01

  And to come through that and get to the other side, there's something that changes in your nervous system.

• 1:42:30Joe Rogan?

  For sure. You've, you've actually experienced something that very few people ever experience. And it's, it's very different than a street fight because you're agreeing to it. And you're training for it. You've got this other person who's like training, you know they're scary as shit. And they're on the other side of the cage. And then you step in and the two of you are about to go to war. It's the nuttiest job in the history of the world. It really is. Other than war and being a firefighter or a cop, it is the nuttiest job in the history of the world. You're agreeing to throw bones at each other in front of the world, millions of people.

• 1:43:02Speaker 01

  People love it.

• 1:43:03Joe Rogan?

  And today, they just announced, the UFC just signed some crazy deal with Paramount Plus.

• 1:43:07Speaker 01

  Ah, I saw that.

• 1:43:08Joe Rogan?

  There's gonna be no more pay-per-views. All the events are gonna be available for everybody for free. Every pay-per-view, every fight card that they have from the Apex, which are my favorite.

• 1:43:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:21Joe Rogan?

  Everything is gonna be available for free. It's an amazing deal.

• 1:43:24Speaker 01

  I think it's gonna explode the sport even more.

• 1:43:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my god. Through the roof. And it's a super smart move for Paramount.

• 1:43:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:30Joe Rogan?

  What a great move to not just have the UFC for seven years, but have it for free. Like, I don't think Paramount costs but what? How much does it cost a month? It's like eight or 10 bucks, I think? 10 bucks. So if it's 10, let's say it's 10 bucks. That's crazy. That's $120 a year. You could watch every UFC pay-per-view. Two UFC pay-per-views is like 140 bucks, right? Isn't it? Aren't they like 70 dollars? So you get all of them? Everything's free? That's incredible. This sport is gonna go fucking hypernova.

• 1:44:02Speaker 01

  Cause the average person only knows about the stars. You know what I mean? But they're kinda detached because they're only watching highlights. Now they get to actually watch about the stars. They're gonna be so much more bought into the sport.

• 1:44:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's gonna be nuts. And it'll be, it's such a smart move for Paramount. Cause you have a built-in audience that's immediately gonna jump over there. Because everybody, you have to renew your ESPN subscription anyway. You know, like you have to renew it, so just buy a Paramount subscription.

• 1:44:28Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:44:29Joe Rogan?

  By the way, ESPN has everything too, it's great. I'm kinda bummed out and I hope they don't lose the relationship that they had with ESPN with all their MMA shows. I hope they don't go like, "Fuck them, they went to Paramount." I hope it's like a mutually beneficial thing, like the UFC at least does some content still on ESPN, because I think that's also a big factor in pulling people from like casual viewers that watch other sports, that might occasionally watch a UFC fight, and then they see like Dustin Poirier versus Max Holloway and they're like, "Holy shit." And then they're hooked, right? It's like having that coverage on SportsCenter, that shit's huge. Having those post-fight shows on ESPN+, that shit is huge. For the real dorks like me, that's huge.

• 1:45:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think even for like the average person that cares more about storytelling, you know? It's like maybe the wives are like, "This is interesting to hear about the drama of their life a little bit and the hero's journey."

• 1:45:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, for sure. Yeah, well, it's unbelievably compelling when you watch two world-class fighters fight in a world championship fight. Unbelievably compelling, you know? Like when you watch Sugar Sean O'Malley try to get the title back from Marab, that was so compelling.

• 1:45:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:41Joe Rogan?

  Sugar Sean changes his whole life. Did you talk with him at all?

• 1:45:43Speaker 01

  I haven't, I'm very curious. I would love to talk with him because I know he cut out weed, right?

• 1:45:48Joe Rogan?

  Cut out weed, stopped jerking off, I believe, and abandoned all social media.

• 1:45:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:53Joe Rogan?

  Which is very fascinating. I might be wrong about the jerking off, I think I might have added that in there.

• 1:45:59Joe Rogan?

  But he recognized that this guy's a motherfucker, he's a completely different thing. Like Marab is like a David Goggins in that respect, that he's so far down the path of pushing himself, that it's almost like you're never gonna catch him. In that game, you know, like six months of not jerking off and staying off TikTok. I don't think that's even close to enough. I think what he's been doing has been really insane for a long time. Everybody that I talked to that's trained with that guy say he's fucking superhuman with his cardio. And his work ethic is through the roof, man.

• 1:46:42Joe Rogan?

  When DC went to see him the day after he won the title, he was outrunning. DC went to his house.

• 1:46:47Speaker 01

  Sicko.

• 1:46:47Joe Rogan?

  And he's filmed, DC's filming his garage, that his garage gym set up. And he's like, this motherfucker is outrunning. He's outrunning the day after winning the world title in a spectacular five-round performance. Where he shows superhuman cardio, like superhuman pressure.

• 1:47:05Joe Rogan?

  There's a few guys like that.

• 1:47:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's fascinating to look at just that level, the elite, elite, elite, elite level. And to see the commonalities between them. For me, as someone who loves studying the mind, and it's like, what is different about these guys? And then, is there anything you could do to catch up? Or are they just built different? Are they just wired in a way?

• 1:47:25Joe Rogan?

  Did you see the Anthony Hernandez, Roman De Ligt say fight this weekend?

• 1:47:29Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:47:29Joe Rogan?

  Bro, you gotta see that fight. You have to see that fight. Anthony Hernandez is a fucking problem. He's a fucking real problem. He doesn't get tired, man. He pushes at insane pace and he doesn't get tired. He melts dudes. He just melts them. You know, he does stuff where you just go like, what? How are you pushing this kind of pace? It's like a middleweight version. Someone said it in the, the comments too, that Murab was in Roman's corner because they're both from Georgia. And he's like, and Murab is in the corner while Roman fights the middleweight version of Murab. Because it really was like that. Fluffy Hernandez is wild, dude.

• 1:48:09Joe Rogan?

  It's like, whatever he's doing in his training, or whether he just has a, like, some people like Kane Velazquez had a natural cardio gift. I don't know what it is, but it's insane. He submitted Rodolfo Viera. Multiple time world jiu jitsu champ, just exhausted the fuck out of him and guillotined him. Which is just nuts to watch that guy tap. Do you know who he is?

• 1:48:30Speaker 01

  Uh-uh, no. I know boxing way more than UFC, so.

• 1:48:33Joe Rogan?

  Vieira is built like a superhero, like he doesn't even look like a real human. He, he looks like a cartoonish, like CGI version of what an elite MMA athlete looks like, just chiseled. And Fluffy doesn't look like that, covered in tattoos, you know, looks athletic, you know, looks tough, but Rodolfo Vieira is a, that's him.

• 1:48:54Speaker 01

  Oh yeah.

• 1:48:55Joe Rogan?

  Buh, bro.

• 1:48:59Joe Rogan?

  You know those photos of like what your girlfriend tells you not to worry about? That one where he's got his sleeves down and by his elbows in the lower, yeah, that one right there, bro.

• 1:49:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:10Joe Rogan?

  What are you talking about? And I don't think Fluffy was even a black belt. I think Fluffy was a brown belt at the time. I want to be correct about that. He's a black belt now, right?

• 1:49:21Joe Rogan?

  Anthony Hernandez, MMA, I think he's a black belt. Um, but to submit that guy was just one of the cra- like if you had a if you had a bet in Vegas, you know? Like if you were on DraftKings Sportsbook and you bet Fluffy Hernandez to submit Rodolfo Vieira.

• 1:49:40Speaker 01

  You made a lot of money.

• 1:49:41Joe Rogan?

  You'd probably get like 25 to 1 odds. Brown belt, he's still a brown belt. He's still a brown belt in jiu jitsu. He submitted a multiple time world champion just by melting him. Just melting him. I'd love for you to talk to that guy, find out what the fuck he's made out of.

• 1:49:57Speaker 01

  I'd love to, love to. Hit me up, bro.

• 1:49:59Joe Rogan?

  He's different, man. There's certain dudes that are just different, you know, like what Goggins likes to call uncommon amongst uncommon men. That dude's uncommon. If I was a middleweight, I'd be like closely watching that guy like, Jesus Christ. Cause he's also like every fight he keeps getting better and it's just a storm that starts from the first minute of the first round and never stops. You never get to break, there's no breaths, he's constantly on you, he takes a great shot. 52 takedowns, 8 fight win streaks, 6 finishes. Bro.

• 1:50:33Joe Rogan?

  That guy. There's, there's guys that just emerge from groups of like super talented contenders where you just go, holy shit. And that's one of them.

• 1:50:43Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 1:50:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:45Speaker 01

  I've been lucky for him. I gotta go back and watch the fight.

• 1:50:47Joe Rogan?

  So for a guy like you, that's like a mental coach, I always like wonder, I'd like to you to like talk to that guy. And maybe you can pass some of that on to everybody else, like, what is he doing?

• 1:50:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:57Joe Rogan?

  How is he, is he just training harder than everybody else? Is he just, is it his mindset? Is he just a dog and just, just does not give a fuck? Cause it seems like there's a lot of that there too. But he's just mentally super strong and super aggressive.

• 1:51:12Speaker 01

  That's what I love to do. I give these guys these prompts and I just audit and I pull out all their beliefs. And it's super interesting to hear what beliefs create in a elite performer. And just hearing all the ones that are making them successful and all the ones that are causing them problems.

• 1:51:28Joe Rogan?

  Wanna hear what's really crazy? Dude smokes a ton of weed. Ton of weed. Like Shugge Shaw and Malley's like, I'm gonna quit the weed. This dude's like, give me all your weed.

• 1:51:38Speaker 01

  When I was, when I was doing a lot of boxing, I would, I was smoking a ton of weed. I was smoking weed every single day. And I don't anymore, but at the time I was like, you know, I had to get surgery on my nose because I got busted up so many times.

• 1:51:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I got that surgery.

• 1:51:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh my God, isn't it nice when you get it done though? I fell down a flight of stairs when I was five. So I've never had a good nose. My nose has been fucked since I was a little kid. So I never could breathe out of my nose. And then years of getting punched and kicked and getting head butted and grappling classes.

• 1:52:07Speaker 01

  I had a, I was going to the doctor because I was still sparring during COVID. And I was going to the doctor and they were just telling me, oh, I think you have COVID. That's what they told me. They were like, oh, I think you just have stuffiness. We're gonna have you tested for COVID, like two different times. And eventually I just got x-rays and I'm like, oh, your nose is destroyed.

• 1:52:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:24Speaker 01

  But I used to-

• 1:52:25Joe Rogan?

  It happens like an ear, right? You know how like ears get cauliflower? You get that same kind of buildup of calcium deposits inside your nose.

• 1:52:32Speaker 01

  Just close it off.

• 1:52:33Joe Rogan?

  They have to carve it out.

• 1:52:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:35Joe Rogan?

  Ever seen what it looks like when they get the chunks and they lay it out for you? After they take it out?

• 1:52:38Speaker 01

  They took a piece from my ear. They took the ear cartilage.

• 1:52:41Joe Rogan?

  To rebuild your nose?

• 1:52:42Speaker 01

  The funniest thing is so, I spent a lot of time in Columbia. And I went down there for the surgery and uh...

• 1:52:48Joe Rogan?

  You went to Columbia for ear to nose surgery?

• 1:52:51Speaker 01

  Oh, I do everything, all my stuff in Columbia. I got LASIK eye surgery in Columbia.

• 1:52:54Joe Rogan?

  Jesus, bro.

• 1:52:55Speaker 01

  They invented it in Bogota, Columbia.

• 1:52:57Joe Rogan?

  Did they really?

• 1:52:58Speaker 01

  They did.

• 1:52:58Joe Rogan?

  No shit.

• 1:52:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, and medical stuff's amazing. Honestly, like, this is gonna sound funny, but when I go there, it almost makes the US feel like a thorough country.

• 1:53:07Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 1:53:08Speaker 01

  Just cuz it's so inexpensive, the doctors are good, the facility's great, anyhow. So I go get the surgery, I come out of it, I'm missing the back of my ear, I didn't understand that part.

• 1:53:17Joe Rogan?

  Why didn't they do the rib? Usually they do rib cartilage, right?

• 1:53:20Speaker 01

  They said they might do the rib, but I don't remember.

• 1:53:22Joe Rogan?

  They changed their mind and went with your ear?

• 1:53:23Speaker 01

  I guess the ear...

• 1:53:24Joe Rogan?

  How's your, what's your ear look like now?

• 1:53:25Speaker 01

  I'm gonna show it to you.

• 1:53:26Joe Rogan?

  Show me.

• 1:53:28Joe Rogan?

  Okay, you got a missing chunk, son. Whoa.

• 1:53:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, now it lays kinda flat.

• 1:53:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's crazy. Not that bad.

• 1:53:36Speaker 01

  Not bad, not bad.

• 1:53:37Joe Rogan?

  But you don't grapple, so you don't have cauliflower. That would get weird. Because there would be no structure, so it would like super droop like a, like a, like a Labrador.

• 1:53:45Speaker 01

  What do you think? I haven't gotten into jiu-jitsu just because I was told by some of my friends that like, I would, I could re-break my nose just by the pressure of people like leaning on it all the time. I just don't wanna get the surgery again.

• 1:53:55Joe Rogan?

  When I got my surgery, I was addicted, fully addicted to jiu-jitsu, so I waited six weeks and I started rolling again.

• 1:54:00Speaker 01

  And how's your nose been?

• 1:54:02Joe Rogan?

  It's fine, but I protected it and I told everybody that I was rolling with, hey man, I just got nose surgery. So please don't like cross-face me if you're trying to get a rear naked choke or something like that. You know, like, there's certain guys that are real mean, and they get, they get your back and they'll fucking do this with your nose to get you to lift your chin up. They'll, they'll go forearm blade right into the nose, which I understand for competition, but for the gym, the problem is like you could really break a guy's nose and then fuck him up for the, the rest of his life until he gets it fixed.

• 1:54:30Speaker 01

  What about now when you train? Like, is it, is it a concern?

• 1:54:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, I haven't been training in a long time. I haven't been training in over a year. No, no rolling at all in over a year. But it's um... Not a concern. It works great. It's fine. If I got it broken and it was a problem, I'd definitely 100% get it fixed again. The benefits of being able to breathe out of your nose, and I've talked to a ton of fighters about this. Some of them are like, "I'll wait till after I'm done fighting," but Druks Duplessi, who's defending his title this weekend, Druks, he started his career with a fucked up nose in the UFC, and it really affected his cardio. His mouth was wide open. He got it fixed, and there was like this immediate bump in performance. I mean, immediate. For sure, he was getting better along the way, and for sure, he was, you know, figuring out how to tighten up his techniques, and he's

• 1:55:14Joe Rogan?

  just an animal, right? But on top of that, having that nose fixed was a significant difference. He didn't have to have his mouth open all the time.

• 1:55:21Speaker 01

  That's the ideal way to breathe, if you can just breathe through your nose, right?

• 1:55:24Joe Rogan?

  It limits your cardio in a significant way. I noticed like a 10% bump in cardio is what it felt like to me. Like, I could feel the difference in being able to breathe out of my nose.

• 1:55:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:33Joe Rogan?

  And also, to be able to bite down on your mouthpiece, like if you're really clamping down on something, and you could still breathe perfectly. That was huge.

• 1:55:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:41Joe Rogan?

  Because before, you'd have to squeeze while your mouth is open. That's terrible. Like, if you want to squeeze on something, you want to be like this. You want to feel like fucking, and you can't bite down. I wonder, they've done studies on that, right? Like, people lifting stuff with like, certain mouthpieces in, and certain mouthpieces actually increase their strength?

• 1:56:02Speaker 01

  Powerlifters use them, right?

• 1:56:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think they do it for sure also, to not break your teeth. Because, I went to a dentist once, and the dentist was like, "You have like microfractures on all your teeth." He was like, "Do you lift weights?" And I go, "Yeah." He was like, "You're clinching your teeth all the time."

• 1:56:18Speaker 01

  Do you?

• 1:56:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. So, I stopped doing that so much, and I definitely started, I worked out with a mouthpiece for a long time, like lifting, but I think there's a certain mouthpiece that they designed that sets your jaw in a certain way, that it actually enhances your strength. There's like, some sort of a connection between like, having your jaw perfectly aligned and clamping down on this mouthpiece, that allows you to actually lift more weight. Find out if that's true. Because I know that that was definitely a marketing claim for this mouthpiece thing, but I just don't remember much of it. But I remember like looking into it years ago. It was like a weird mouthpiece with like the bottom had like a hole cut into it so you could breathe out of it.

• 1:56:56Speaker 01

  I think I've heard something about that. I know grunting is supposed to help you lift more weights.

• 1:57:00Joe Rogan?

  That makes sense. That's why they keep it out of that LA Fitness place. They get mad at you.

• 1:57:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:04Joe Rogan?

  Is that the, no, Planet Fitness.

• 1:57:05Speaker 01

  Planet Fitness, yeah. I did see a study, because I was looking at all these studies, increased strength performance, you know, when I was studying all this stuff and I was like, grunting.

• 1:57:12Joe Rogan?

  That's so crazy that if you, if you lift weights there too loud, they sound an alarm and they kick you out. Like you tried to, the lunk alarm.

• 1:57:20Speaker 01

  The lunk alarm.

• 1:57:23Joe Rogan?

  That's funny.

• 1:57:23Speaker 01

  It's safe for those people who want to be there. It's a nice, safe environment.

• 1:57:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I get it, but also, don't you want to be inspired by someone who's working out really hard? Like if I go to the gym and there's a guy there like, whoa, that guy's there. And you watch that guy do some crazy routine, you're like, eh, eh, eh. As long as he's nice, like what do you care if he's grunting?

• 1:57:40Speaker 01

  But that's kind of society, right? We got the, the padded walls in many places for people.

• 1:57:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I guess it intimidates people. It scares them and then maybe people, what is this, Jamie? Mouthpiece? Yeah, that's it.

• 1:57:53Speaker 03

  I don't know if it's proven.

• 1:57:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't know if it's proven either. But is this, um, official mouthpiece of the world's strongest man?

• 1:58:00Speaker 03

  It's patented.

• 1:58:01Joe Rogan?

  Boosting muscular force and power. Huh. It's patented. So how does it work? Does it say how it works?

• 1:58:08Speaker 03

  I was looking, I didn't see any.

• 1:58:11Speaker 03

  It says, I don't know, that's what it says.

• 1:58:13Joe Rogan?

  Thing is, if you believe it works, it probably works.

• 1:58:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 1:58:16Joe Rogan?

  Designed to absorb clenching while guiding optimal tongue positioning during high stress exertion. Hmm.

• 1:58:25Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. Um, but being able to breathe out your nose is giant, kids. So if you don't have that, if you've got that problem, get it fixed.

• 1:58:34Speaker 01

  What do you think about?

• 1:58:35Joe Rogan?

  If you can.

• 1:58:36Speaker 01

  Um, weed and fighting, because I'm gonna ask you a couple of different questions.

• 1:58:39Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:58:40Speaker 01

  When I was living in LA, I knew this neuroscientist and we ran like a little fun study where I was a big stoner, so he had me stop smoking weed for two weeks, I think it was. He tested me, did all these brain tests with me. And then he tested me two weeks afterwards, and I play football, I box, right? So a lot of hits to the head.

• 1:58:59Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:58:59Speaker 01

  And he said that without weed, he showed like, it showed that I had a fair amount of like, brain damage, like my brain wasn't functioning like it would. When I smoked weed and went back in there, he said there was some kind of like neuroprotective effect where like I was, my brain was like registering. As more healthy.

• 1:59:17Joe Rogan?

  Well, isn't part of the problem with CTE and any kind of a brain issue in general, part of the problem is inflammation, right?

• 1:59:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:26Joe Rogan?

  Isn't it?

• 1:59:28Joe Rogan?

  That's one of the things that they say, like, changing your gut bacteria has an effect on mood. You know, there are a lot of people that have like real gut problems.

• 1:59:35Speaker 01

  So you think weed decreases inflammation in the brain?

• 1:59:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's, well, weed certainly increases, decreases rather, inflammation. And that's why people use it for pain management. People with sore backs and, yeah. People going through chemotherapy, it also improves your appetite for people going through chemo because it's hard for them to eat. But weed most certainly can help with pain management, with some kinds of pain. I know some people that have tried it for like debilitating pain and it just doesn't do a damn thing. It just makes them almost more aware of it. But it's variable, man. Because I was just, Jamie, who's the guy who killed Bin Laden? You know, that Navy SEAL guy who killed Bin Laden?

• 2:00:18Joe Rogan?

  He's on, um, yeah, he's on Instagram. O'Neill something? Right, but let's say his full name out of respect. I believe it's Robert. Well, how about look it up?

• 2:00:31Joe Rogan?

  And find his Instagram because he, he has something to do with the cannabis business. And like, this guy's just super badass, tip of the spear, special forces operator, right? And there it is, Robert O'Neill. Go to his, uh, see if you can find his Instagram.

• 2:00:51Joe Rogan?

  What does it say? That's him. It says, uh, set to pedal pot in New York City and said it helps get rid of the noise. He's also an advocate for, um, Ibogaine. He's done Ibogaine, uh, I think multiple times. But go, click on, go to his Instagram page, Jamie, if you could. I forget, it's like Mr. Huya or something like that. But he said that it, it helps him go to sleep at night, helps him relax and go to sleep at night. Like there's, there's scroll down, go back to the grid and scroll down.

• 2:01:24Speaker 01

  Well, there's a.

• 2:01:25Joe Rogan?

  There's him in an actual pot farm, like his own pot farm in there. Like where they grow all the stuff that he, uh, he sells.

• 2:01:33Speaker 01

  That makes sense, cause it has that disassociative effect, right?

• 2:01:37Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:01:37Speaker 01

  And so it's easier maybe to get out of your head.

• 2:01:40Joe Rogan?

  But it flies in the face of this very, uh, public narrative. The, which is pot is for lazy people, pot is for losers, pot's gonna rot your brain, pot's gonna make you stink. Pot's gonna make you an idiot. Can't find it?

• 2:01:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:56Joe Rogan?

  I don't know where it is.

• 2:01:57Speaker 01

  This company's thing, I'll find it second.

• 2:01:58Joe Rogan?

  Maybe that's the far right one with his hands outstretched like Jesus, that's the one him talking about Ibergaine. And I looked at that. McHoo Ya on Instagram. With a guy like that, smoking weed, you, you get, you gotta throw it out the window. All your preconceived, it's like. Everybody is biologically different and for some people, alcohol just fucks them up.

• 2:02:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:23Joe Rogan?

  For some people marijuana is a no-go. It's not good, they freak out, but for some people.

• 2:02:28Speaker 01

  When you're a dog, you know, like we're dogs, we like to get after it, we like to work out, we like to do things like. I almost liked when I was smoking weed every day to be the guy who could be super fit, to be training boxing every day and like. And still smoking weed. My business, smoke weed every day. Like I kinda took this like weird pride in it for some time as well of like.

• 2:02:45Joe Rogan?

  Bro, one of my favorite things to do was to smoke weed and hit the bag.

• 2:02:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, so meditative.

• 2:02:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, man, you also.

• 2:02:52Speaker 01

  Forum goes out the window a little bit.

• 2:02:53Joe Rogan?

  No, it doesn't. For me, it's the opposite. For me, I feel everything. Like for me, I feel.

• 2:02:59Speaker 01

  Maybe I'm just judging myself.

• 2:03:00Joe Rogan?

  The timing more when I'm hitting things, like it feels more coordinated. Like when I'm throwing a kick, it's just whoomp. Like I feel the, the, the time to like accelerate. The time to get the hips into it at all, I'm more sensitive. It feels better, like you you you tune into it. It makes my pool game 100% better.

• 2:03:20Speaker 01

  Really?

• 2:03:21Joe Rogan?

  Oh, 100%. It's it's like steroids for pool.

• 2:03:24Speaker 01

  But I also hear you on the podcast when you've done it before, like you stay dialed in to a degree. Like, maybe you don't have the same recall.

• 2:03:30Joe Rogan?

  That's right, but that's that's the point that that I was making earlier. It's different for everybody. It's not like I am different than other people. There's there's people that don't think the way I think. They don't they don't have a life experiences that I have. They don't have the ability to manage like the weirdness that comes with weed, which

• 2:03:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:45Joe Rogan?

  The paranoia I like.

• 2:03:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:47Joe Rogan?

  I genuinely like it.

• 2:03:48Speaker 01

  You kind of need, do you like that voice just kind of question your little thing? Like, don't don't get too big for your britches.

• 2:03:53Joe Rogan?

  Yes, I like it. I like being scared. I think it's good for you.

• 2:03:57Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:03:57Joe Rogan?

  As long as you use it wisely, like you take that weirdness like, oh, maybe I should go give him a call and explain myself better. Maybe I should reach out. Maybe I should do this. Maybe I should do that. Maybe I should like make it easier for these people. Maybe I should, you know, it makes me like very considerate. And I think it's a really potent tool for managing your state of mind. But that's just for me. I don't know how your mind works. I could would only be pretending, right? Like, we're all on a different mind journey too, right?

• 2:04:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:04:33Joe Rogan?

  If you're a person who was beaten by their parents and you were fucking mugged and then this happened to you and that happened to you and you got fucked over at work and it and now here you are there, like, that's very different than a person who's had a lot of like success and been real lucky and got to a point and has a healthy mindset.

• 2:04:52Speaker 01

  Maybe it's more nostalgic, you kind of smoke what you're thinking about, you know, gives you time to separate a little bit from being in the grind versus.

• 2:04:58Joe Rogan?

  Well, my point is like, if you're all fucked up, maybe pot's not for you.

• 2:05:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:02Joe Rogan?

  Right? If you're a real mess and you're like barely hanging on like to regular life, maybe freaking yourself out with potent THC is not the way to go.

• 2:05:11Speaker 01

  Especially these days.

• 2:05:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, this what I'm getting at is like, maybe as your journey progresses and you get healthy and you get more confident and strong and more successful, maybe then.

• 2:05:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:05:21Joe Rogan?

  Maybe not even then, maybe that's not your thing. You you have to be honest about what's your thing. You know, you have to find, and the problem with things being illegal is you don't have that opportunity. And then you have people that had bad personal experiences with it, and they're like, pot makes you stank, pot makes you a dummy. Maybe it does that for you, okay, but it doesn't do that for me. For me, it makes me nicer to my friends, it makes me wanna pet my dog, it makes me wanna chill out. It's like, it makes me wanna have fun with my friends, makes me wanna laugh. It doesn't make me stank, well, it probably makes me stank.

• 2:05:55Joe Rogan?

  But it doesn't make me, uh, any dumber, that's for sure. And it makes me more inquisitive, it makes me more interested in, for sure, subjects that I have no understanding of that are fascinating, like cosmology. There's nothing like getting high and watching a space documentary. Just to try to put it into perspective, like what it, what it is we're living in. What, what is re- the reality of the physical universe in its majesty that's above your head every day, like that is, when you're high, you're like, how am I not paying attention to this? This is really a crazy thing, that this is probably the most profound experience that a person could ever have in their lives, like being on a planet, going through space, and we completely take it for granted.

• 2:06:40Speaker 01

  I think to a degree, it's good to have some kind of cadence where you have something that allows you to kinda step back from yourself.

• 2:06:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think it's good.

• 2:06:47Speaker 01

  It could be some mushrooms.

• 2:06:48Joe Rogan?

  Could be just meditative, like breathing exercises, yoga class, yeah. Doing something, or running, that's, I think that's a lot of the high of running. You know, when people like really exert themselves, like you're just thinking about your breath.

• 2:07:03Joe Rogan?

  You're just getting after it, and you're five, six miles in, and when you're done, you're like, wow.

• 2:07:10Joe Rogan?

  That runner's high is one hundred percent real.

• 2:07:13Speaker 01

  Oh yeah.

• 2:07:14Joe Rogan?

  One hundred percent real. And, um, that's how they're getting it, and that's how they're separating themselves. And I think a person who can regularly run on a, on a regular basis, like miles and miles and miles, that's a special person. That's a very unusual person. That's a person of will, you know? A person could just at any time, you could just tag them, "Let's go run," and they can run like, that's what Goggins and Cam Haynes do to each other, these fucking psychopaths?

• 2:07:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:40Joe Rogan?

  Cam Haynes like calls Goggins, say, "Hey, I'm in Vegas, let's go running." And so, uh, Goggins calls out a spot check, like if you have a true friend, he spot checks you.

• 2:07:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:48Joe Rogan?

  Those motherfuckers ran a marathon in the streets of Las Vegas. They ran twenty-six miles, just-

• 2:07:55Speaker 01

  Just because?

• 2:07:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, at like a six-minute mile pace, like bananas. Just bananas, like out of nowhere, like you didn't know I was coming, I call you, "Let's go, let's go running, let's see what's up," and two fucking complete total psychopaths running twenty-six miles in the Las Vegas heat. Nuts.

• 2:08:14Speaker 01

  Sick.

• 2:08:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so there's, there's people like that out there that are just different, and their, their journey to be different is taking a long time to get to where they are right now.

• 2:08:25Speaker 01

  What are your beliefs around, cause I have mine, just from my experience, what are your beliefs on where they were before they were born? Do you think that this is, they have something in them because of a previous life?

• 2:08:36Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I don't know. That's a good question. If, if previous lives were true, proven to be true, which right now they're not, it's like just an idea, cause you can't know, how could you know? But a lot of people and a lot of religions and a lot of different cultures have believed-

• 2:08:51Speaker 01

  But there's, there's actually, I think, um, what university? Maybe University of Virginia, there's a whole department that's studying people who've had these like near-death experiences, they're going back and talking about previous lives.

• 2:09:02Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, it's a interesting question, but it's, there's no, there's no evidence, right? There's no data.

• 2:09:08Speaker 01

  Jamie, I don't know if you've seen this or heard of it.

• 2:09:10Joe Rogan?

  Well, I mean, even if these people have stories, unless they have stories that match up with historical facts-

• 2:09:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I think it is oftentimes, I think it's like, you have like some kids who are just telling you about someone else's life and they should not know it, but they like-

• 2:09:25Joe Rogan?

  I have heard those stories.

• 2:09:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:26Joe Rogan?

  But I don't know if those are real, cause one of the problems is people bullshit, and they, you know, they, they make things out to be a little bit more profound than they are, so it makes for a better story, and if you're a true believer, maybe even juice up the results a little bit. It's hard to know.

• 2:09:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:41Joe Rogan?

  But I'm not opposed to the idea of a reincarnation, and I'm not opposed to the idea that some people are just special, cause it seems like that's real. It seems like there's certain people that just emerge, and there's just something about them, and it's not necessarily just the hard work. You know, it's not necessarily just the mindset, there's something going on.

• 2:10:00Speaker 01

  I like the framework of it, of thinking about this infinite game. You know, cuz then someone, it's like, well, why am I gonna do this work? Like, this sounds like a lot of work, all this self-introspection. It's like, to understand that, like, you're playing this infinite game. And if you deal with your shit now, then your life is gonna be more peaceful and have more flow in the future. If you don't deal with it, this is just, you know, you're just kicking the ball down the road.

• 2:10:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, that's true.

• 2:10:21Speaker 01

  At least, it is true in this life, and I don't know. I feel like it could be true in your next one as well.

• 2:10:26Joe Rogan?

  If you have a next one, I mean, that's the thing, it's like, maybe it's not as simple as that. We're just assuming every time we wake up that we're in the same timeline. But just the idea of going to sleep is really kooky.

• 2:10:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:39Joe Rogan?

  It's really kooky, you know? You just, you decide to close your eyes every night and you just disconnect from physical reality for hours at a time? And it's necessary? And we all just take it for granted?

• 2:10:51Speaker 01

  Where do we go?

• 2:10:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, normal. I don't know where we go, but I go to a lot of zombies.

• 2:10:55Speaker 01

  Do you really?

• 2:10:56Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, I have a lot of zombie dreams. I have a lot of, last night I had a great zombie apocalypse dream.

• 2:11:01Speaker 01

  We need a dream interpreter in here.

• 2:11:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, I don't think I have a whole lot of confidence in the human race keeping it together. You know, at the very best, I'm like sixty, forty plus that we're gonna figure it out. But that forty percent-

• 2:11:14Speaker 01

  During your lifetime, or just?

• 2:11:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like, maybe this week. Like, who fucking knows? It's all dependent upon what kind of disaster takes place. You know, it's all dependent upon what kind of shit goes down. And when you look historically, shit has always gone down when people thought shit could never go down. And that's us, right now. And that's why zombie movies work.

• 2:11:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's why they're making them way, infiltrating into your brain, into your subconscious.

• 2:11:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I started watching Twenty Eight Years Later, Jamie.

• 2:11:42Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, that'll do it.

• 2:11:43Joe Rogan?

  I shut that bitch off. I was about to go to bed. I was like, it was like eight o'clock at night, I'm like, let me watch this. I'm like, no, no, no, I figured it out ten, fifteen minutes in, where they, I don't wanna say what happens, I don't wanna spoil it.

• 2:11:53Speaker 01

  You gotta watch some Barney after that.

• 2:11:55Joe Rogan?

  But right away, I was like, okay, this is one where I'm gonna have to do hours before I go to sleep. Cuz them zombie dreams.

• 2:12:02Speaker 01

  Even watching, like, The House of Dragon, Game of Thrones, like, some gruesome stuff in there before bed.

• 2:12:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like real hardcore, like, realistic violence is rough, right before you go to sleep.

• 2:12:12Speaker 01

  I mean, just what I know about the mind, how the subconscious works, like, it's just obvious every time I go to bed, I'm like, you shouldn't have done that.

• 2:12:18Joe Rogan?

  For sure, for sure. Here's what's interesting, though. I can watch brutal fights and sleep like a baby. That seems weird.

• 2:12:25Speaker 01

  I wonder what.

• 2:12:25Joe Rogan?

  That's weird, because that's real violence, right? The stuff that I'm seeing in the movies, I know is horseshit.

• 2:12:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. For some reason, it feels more controlled.

• 2:12:34Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. I think I'm just used to it, honestly. I think it's like everything else. I think, you know, there's a lot of doctors that they'll tell you, if they're being honest with you, that, um, there comes a time when people die, that it doesn't affect them the same anymore. You know, they're so used to people dying, especially like, emergency room doctors, dealing with like, traumatic injuries, and you get accustomed to people dying.

• 2:12:56Speaker 01

  I think it's also the idea of like, evil, though. You know, if you're watching something, you're seeing evil take place, versus like, for me, when I watch MMA, I'm like, I know these guys, like, I see, I love these guys, you know? I've never met, I've never worked with a guy who I don't love. They all have great hearts, and like, I feel this genuine, like, goodness. Like, I haven't met that many guys, I don't know them all, but, like, when I see it, I don't see, like, evil.

• 2:13:20Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of really, really, really good guys and good women that fight in MMA, and it's because of what we talked about before. They've gone through something insanely difficult. They're a very special person. Even people that you don't think are, like, great people, like, like Sean Strickland, super controversial. Sean Strickland is a fucking great guy. If you get him alone, you talk to him, he's a great guy. He's super smart, super disciplined, saved up a ton of money. You know, I was talking the other day about, like, he's got like four million bucks saved. Super smart, man. Yeah, so he could, like, retire at any moment, live a simple life, and never work again, you know, and he's not, but he's outrageous, you know, he's outrageous, he says wild shit, but it's also, it's like... What do you expect from the way that guy grew up? Like, he didn't grow up the way you grew up.

• 2:14:04Speaker 01

  He's got some unresolved trauma.

• 2:14:06Joe Rogan?

  100%.

• 2:14:06Speaker 01

  And, I don't know, this is something that I think some fighters think about. It's like, if I get rid of my trauma, am I gonna be weaker? You know, do I need this? As an edge? I don't believe they do. That's been my experience.

• 2:14:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't think they do either, but then again, some fighters, they go and do ayahuasca and they come back and they're not...

• 2:14:22Speaker 01

  Kumbaya?

• 2:14:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:23Speaker 01

  They don't wanna fight anymore?

• 2:14:24Joe Rogan?

  Kumbaya! They say that happened to Deontay. Deontay Wilder went and did ayahuasca.

• 2:14:29Speaker 01

  Oh, did he really?

• 2:14:30Joe Rogan?

  And he came back, he just... It's a little too peaceful.

• 2:14:32Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 2:14:32Joe Rogan?

  It's hard to say, though, because...

• 2:14:33Speaker 01

  Was that before or after the Tyson Fury fight?

• 2:14:35Joe Rogan?

  After. So that's the problem. It's like, we might be drawing a false, a fake correlation here because those Tyson Fury fights were fucking brutal.

• 2:14:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:14:43Joe Rogan?

  They were brutal.

• 2:14:44Speaker 01

  I feel like, speaking of belief, right, he had an identity that was bulletproof. That was unbreakable. And I watched all the excuses...

• 2:14:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:52Speaker 01

  Deontay, no offense.

• 2:14:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, no offense. No offense, but his excuses were kinda crazy.

• 2:14:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think they're just a byproduct of like, he believed he was unbeatable. So he had to come up with something to tell the story about how he lost. For himself. It wasn't even, I don't even think it was malicious. I think he was trying to cope with, what is this reality now?

• 2:15:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, what he was, was a spectacular puncher who wasn't a real, um, fluid and, uh, movement-based boxer. Right? He wasn't a guy like Usik. Like, Usik is the most fluid, movement-based boxer the heavyweight division has seen since Muhammad Ali, right? So what he was, was what Teddy Atlas calls the eraser. Like, all the mistakes he made, it was one right hand and they were, they were erased. That he's the most spectacular one-punch knockout artist in the history of the sport, I think. I mean, his powers, and not a big guy. Not in comparison. He fought Tyson Fury the first time, he told me he was 209. That's crazy! And flatlined him in like, what, the 11th round? Oh, the 12th, right? Dropped him in the 12th.

• 2:15:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, there was like a minute left or something.

• 2:15:54Joe Rogan?

  But that 12th round changed the course of the rematches because Tyson Fury realized that if he goes after Deontay and he gets him on his back foot, he doesn't fight as well.

• 2:16:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:16:01Joe Rogan?

  And so then he figured it out and he just took it to him. And then he took it to him in the second fight and took it to him in the third fight. But yeah, it's hard when you hear a guy like that make excuses, but you understand, you do, more than anybody, the destruction of the belief system and how difficult it is for fighters to manage that.

• 2:16:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, but if you do the work to rebuild it afterwards, you're stronger.

• 2:16:21Joe Rogan?

  Right, but you have to do the work, right? And for a lot of guys, again, they don't totally know where to start. Like, say if they have a camp, and inside their camp, they have a trainer, they have the strength and conditioning guy, they have, you know, different coaches for different aspects of their, whatever they're doing, whether it's a stretch coach, or a boxing coach, or, you know, whatever it is. But they don't have a mental guy, you know? They don't have someone who works with you and really makes sure that your mind has the tools to manage itself out of there, and they don't know where to start. Like, where do you, if you're a guy and you're training, you know, what's, any contender, and then he gets knocked out, and he comes back from that knockout, and you're rebuilding him, but he's got all these confidence issues now, like, where do you even look? Like, if you, like, I gotta help this guy get back on track mentally, get him back to

• 2:17:06Joe Rogan?

  where he was before, like, he got caught, it happens, but he's still an amazing boxer, and he's just gotta recover from this, and he can still get back on the horse and still be a world champion. But where do they even start? You know? If they don't know you, where do they start?

• 2:17:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I think they start by going through the process, just feeling into it, and it's always diving into the, where you don't want to go, right? It's okay. What are the insecurities coming up now? What are the fears coming up? What are the doubts? Usually, we try to, like, stay in our head and escape that. It's about going into it, feeling, feeling, feeling into it, and then seeing what comes up there, and even, like, writing it down, and just bringing it into awareness. Once you have awareness of it, then you can actually do something about it.

• 2:17:45Joe Rogan?

  Then you can manage it.

• 2:17:46Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:17:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So, this book, how long does it take you to write it?

• 2:17:50Speaker 01

  Uh, like, six months.

• 2:17:52Joe Rogan?

  The Success Code.

• 2:17:54Speaker 01

  Well, it was a year, but with that, it was...

• 2:17:55Joe Rogan?

  The High Performance Playbook for...

• 2:17:59Joe Rogan?

  Eliminating mental barriers and scaling your career, relationships and health. So, did you think about like different approaches to like different kinds of occupations and different kinds of ways people are living their life and how it applies?

• 2:18:12Speaker 01

  So, the first half of the book is my story. It's kinda like, I'm trying to build rapport, so I tell people, this is how I learned all this stuff. This is how it worked for me. These are my client stories. So, by the end of the first part, you're either like, this guy's full of shit, or I believe you. And then the playbook starts. And it is something that anyone can use, because it's simple stuff. Like, it starts with like, grade the different areas of your life from one to 10. Right? And then we're looking at closing the gap in each area. If you're like, my career's at a four, I want it to be at a 10. Okay. Let's get the low hanging fruit of like, what are some of the things you need to stop doing?

• 2:18:45Joe Rogan?

  That vodka.

• 2:18:46Speaker 01

  Alright, the vodka. Let's cut that out, right?

• 2:18:48Joe Rogan?

  Those three glasses in the morning. Stop!

• 2:18:50Speaker 01

  Yep. And just going through that auditing system of understanding like what's holding you back, what do you need more conscientious about? And then I start getting into the training for the mind later on.

• 2:19:01Joe Rogan?

  Do this system, this writing this stuff down and having these numbers, is this something that you invented? Is this something you learned?

• 2:19:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, something I invented.

• 2:19:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah?

• 2:19:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:19:10Joe Rogan?

  So, you just, how did you come to that conclusion that that's how you should do it?

• 2:19:14Speaker 01

  Works. Yeah. Just works.

• 2:19:17Joe Rogan?

  Works for you, works for clients?

• 2:19:19Speaker 01

  For my clients, yeah.

• 2:19:20Joe Rogan?

  So, when you first started doing it, was it sort of like, whoo, what's the best way to mentally manage this situation for this person?

• 2:19:28Speaker 01

  Just trying to solve their problems. That's all I'm trying to do. Just being really creative with my problem solving. And so, over the years, I just picked up better tools, I've gotten better at practicing things to be able to solve problems better. I wanted to be full time with this at 22 years old. It wasn't gonna happen. I just didn't have the experience, I didn't have enough tools.

• 2:19:44Joe Rogan?

  That's so young to wanna help other people, you know? Most people at 22 are trying to help themselves.

• 2:19:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, it just, it worked for me so much, and it transformed my life so much, that I was like, well, this is what I'm supposed to do. I wanna help other people with this.

• 2:20:00Joe Rogan?

  Interesting. So, how did it transform your life? Like, what were the big benefits?

• 2:20:04Speaker 01

  Where do I begin? I would say it started just with coming back the next season and playing football. Went from riding the bench to becoming a starter to being one of the best players on our team. So it helped me with football first. I was like, alright, cool. That helped. Then I started to get actually confidence from being able to help other people, which I didn't have before. I was never something, because football, I was like, okay, I wasn't great at it. But, once I learned the skill, I actually started to build confidence. And, just learned to manage my own state, my anxiety, my performance anxiety, and just starting to feel confident. So, for the first ten years or so, about knowing about this, probably first, more like nine years, I was mostly using more elementary meditation techniques, some hypnosis, some NLP.

• 2:20:49Speaker 01

  It wasn't until, I'd say about seven years ago, that I started going deep into the beliefs. And that transformed my life in a major way. I mean, one thing I did recently was I had hypothyroidism, and I was able to completely heal that naturally. How'd you do that? Change in all the underwriting beliefs, and then everything, right? Everything I do with any client, it's the same thing I'm gonna do for me, it's holistic. So of course, I went through a huge gut cleanse, right? Because a gut is everything, it's the foundation. So, did a lot of fasting, elimination diet, cutting out almost all foods except for a few. Boiled chicken, boiled carrots, coconut oil. Started slowly noticing how I felt as I started to increase the portion and start to bring other foods in.

• 2:21:34Speaker 01

  I did red light therapy, there's some good red light therapy research out there. For the thyroid, if you just put it on, there is a study that showed that people were able to cut their medication in half just by using the infrared light therapy. Yeah. It's good for a ton of things, great for the gut. So, I just started synchronicity, right? I met this lady on the beach, in Miami Beach, who studies this stuff, red light therapy specifically for the gut. And I was like, well, what about the thyroid? And she's like, yeah, of course it'll help, it's light. Light heals everything. So I just started researching it. So it was all, I did a lot of things. I cut out caffeine this year. That was a big thing, that, I don't think caffeine creates hypothyroidism, but... For me, when I turned on that gene, right, epigenetics, I turned on the gene for, I didn't have to have this, but like my mom has it, my brother has it.

• 2:22:15Speaker 01

  And so I had the gene and I put it on through stress, through excessive caffeine and just a very stressful life in my mid twenties. So the way it turned off was turn off the things that are associated with that stress response. So pulling out the caffeine just put me more in the parasympathetic nervous system, allowed me to relax more. And then, yeah, all this stuff and just noticing the fears come up. When I pull away, my, the things I like, right, the comfort of the food, the comfort of the caffeine. Just all my things that I like, all the comfort and just seeing where the fears that came out through that. And just recoding it, recoding it. And this is gonna sound very woo woo, but I was taking the medication, cause you know, if you ask the doctor, they tell you, you have to take this medication for the rest of your life.

• 2:22:56Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:22:56Speaker 01

  And they get mad that you even ask about what an alternative is. Like I've had doctors be like, be grateful, you just have to take a pill, like get out of here. But there was actually experience I had two years ago where a doctor wouldn't give me my medication, even though my blood didn't change. He said, oh, you're gonna have to come back in here every three months, I wanna monitor it. He tried to put me on like a subscription plan to pay more money, just to keep getting it. And it was like flipped something to me, I was like, I'm not doing this anymore.

• 2:23:22Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:23:22Speaker 01

  I'm gonna find a way to get off this medication. It's just.

• 2:23:25Joe Rogan?

  This is something that RFK Junior is trying to stop, is financial incentives.

• 2:23:30Speaker 01

  The gatekeeper?

• 2:23:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:31Speaker 01

  Of this medication?

• 2:23:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the financial incentives to prescribe things and then gatekeeping whether or not you can get useful medications, kinda crazy.

• 2:23:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. But yeah, so I just had, I did all these things very holistically, right?

• 2:23:48Speaker 01

  Doing sauna, I'm doing all these things. And then just feeling into my body, one day it was just like intuition just told me, it was like, hey, you're done, you don't need anymore.

• 2:23:56Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:23:57Speaker 01

  And so what I did, of course, I asked ChatGPT, I was like, I can't just stop taking it.

• 2:24:02Joe Rogan?

  What did ChatGPT say?

• 2:24:03Speaker 01

  It said, take one day on, one day off. I did that, by the third day of taking it again, my body rejected it, I felt terrible, I felt like a depletion of energy.

• 2:24:12Joe Rogan?

  It's just three days?

• 2:24:13Speaker 01

  The third day of not taking it.

• 2:24:15Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:24:15Speaker 01

  Third day of taking it.

• 2:24:17Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:24:17Speaker 01

  So I took it, I didn't take it, and the day that I took it again, my body rejected it. And I was like, I get it, I'm done, and I haven't touched it since.

• 2:24:24Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 2:24:25Speaker 01

  I think there's a lot of things like that.

• 2:24:27Joe Rogan?

  Well, I wonder if that that that study that shows that visualization increases physical strength. Like, I want, I really wonder if there's, if you have the ability to accentuate healing. If you just concentrate, like, if you get an injury and the injury is gonna heal, but if if concentrating on that injury helps it heal more.

• 2:24:47Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:24:47Joe Rogan?

  But how many people actually do that, right? How many people actually, like, really visualize something?

• 2:24:52Speaker 01

  Well, even just the placebo effect of thinking you got it. So there's a study, I think it was done on ACL surgeries. Could be on, could be meniscus. It was one of these knee surgeries. Where they took two groups. They give one one group the surgery, the other group, they just cut their knee open and then sewed it right back up. Same results over whatever the period of time was.

• 2:25:11Joe Rogan?

  Wait a minute, it can't be ACL surgery, because ACL is a stabilizing ligament.

• 2:25:15Speaker 01

  It was one of these knee surgeries.

• 2:25:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:18Speaker 01

  And they had the same results.

• 2:25:20Joe Rogan?

  That doesn't make sense. That that seems a little.

• 2:25:22Speaker 01

  Jamie, help me out here.

• 2:25:23Joe Rogan?

  That seems a little wacky, because ACLs are, it's, that's a, that's the ligament in the center that keeps it from moving side to side and up and down.

• 2:25:31Speaker 01

  Maybe it was meniscus.

• 2:25:32Joe Rogan?

  Maybe. That makes more sense.

• 2:25:34Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:25:35Joe Rogan?

  Meniscus surgeries are rough, because when they take it out, then you have this hole there. You have, like, a gap missing, depending on how much you take out. And some guys get a bunch of their meniscus taken out. Guys even get, like, artificial meniscus put in, or donor meniscus, you know?

• 2:25:50Speaker 01

  But, I mean, was that book?

• 2:25:52Joe Rogan?

  I think visualization is a factor.

• 2:25:54Speaker 01

  And belief.

• 2:25:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:56Speaker 01

  If you.

• 2:25:56Joe Rogan?

  You're not gonna regrow your ACL, though, with your brain.

• 2:25:58Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:25:59Joe Rogan?

  I mean, if it's not connected, get that shit fixed. But, because I know a lot of guys who didn't, and then eventually they did. I know a lot of guys who got their ACL blown out and they just tried to rehab it. But it kept grinding, so they're always, it's always slipping out. They're always tearing their meniscus more. It's like, fuck, dude, just get it fixed. Get it fixed. Six months later, you'll be back on the mats. Get it fixed.

• 2:26:19Speaker 01

  Get your ACL fixed.

• 2:26:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, get your ACL fixed.

• 2:26:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it's wild, though. I mean, if you start going down this rabbit hole of seeing, like, how many placebo studies have been done, that's why it's so hard to find drugs that actually work.

• 2:26:29Joe Rogan?

  Okay, this is weird. I think this is sort of saying.

• 2:26:31Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:26:31Speaker 03

  What does it say?

• 2:26:32Joe Rogan?

  Uh, 180 patients, osteoarthritis, knee surgery.

• 2:26:36Joe Rogan?

  Were randomly assigned to receive arthroscopic. Debridement? Debridement. Arthroscopic lavage or placebo surgery. Patients in a placebo group received skin incisions and underwent a similar debridement without insertion of the arthroscope. Patients and assessors of the outcome were blinded to the treatment group assignment. Outcomes were assessed at multiple points over a 24-month period with the use of five self-reported scores, three on scales for pain and two on scales for function. And one objective test of walking and stair climbing. A total of 165 patients completed the trial.

• 2:27:16Joe Rogan?

  Results: At no point did either of the intervention groups report less pain or better function than the placebo group. Interesting.

• 2:27:26Joe Rogan?

  For, uh, but this is just like, I always wonder like, how bad was their injury? What, you know, what are we talking about? How many people were there? How many people were in this group? 165 patients? Conclusions: This controlled trial involving patients with osteoarthritis of the knee. The outcomes after arthroscopic lavage or arthroscopic debridement were no better than those after a placebo procedure. That's kinda nuts, man.

• 2:27:53Speaker 01

  And I think like, it's weird how we talk about the placebo that way. It's kinda like diminishing it. It's like, yeah, look, it didn't work, but that's not what happened. The people believed they got the surgery.

• 2:28:02Joe Rogan?

  Right. That's the fucked up part about placebo effects. It's measurable. Like, the benefits are measurable.

• 2:28:07Speaker 01

  Like, those people did, they did heal. They did have less pain.

• 2:28:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but the question is like, would they have healed anyway without it? I don't know. Or is it because they believe that they were healed? That it relaxed them and then they were thinking, okay, it's healing now. I got the surgery. It's on the right track. It's getting better now. And maybe if they had that mindset, if they could figure out a way to make that mindset without the surgery, they could've just do it.

• 2:28:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, belief.

• 2:28:33Joe Rogan?

  Belief. Alright dude. The Success Code, um, did you have a, an audible or an audio version of this?

• 2:28:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's on Spotify, it's audible.

• 2:28:41Joe Rogan?

  Did you read it?

• 2:28:42Speaker 01

  I did read it.

• 2:28:43Joe Rogan?

  Nice, nice. I love when authors-

• 2:28:45Speaker 01

  I get to hear all my, my dirty stories.

• 2:28:47Joe Rogan?

  Read their own stuff and a bunch of people, um, sing your praises in the back of the book and, uh-

• 2:28:51Speaker 01

  You can look up my name, cause I rebranded it and I haven't changed the name on Spotify, so just look up Brandon Epps and you'll find the book.

• 2:28:57Joe Rogan?

  What do you mean, you rebranded the book?

• 2:28:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:29:00Joe Rogan?

  What's it called on Spotify?

• 2:29:01Speaker 01

  Program to Fail.

• 2:29:02Joe Rogan?

  Okay, well let people know, yeah, so they could-

• 2:29:04Speaker 01

  Program to Fail on Audible.

• 2:29:05Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:29:05Speaker 01

  Success Code on, whatever else you can-

• 2:29:07Joe Rogan?

  Alright, beautiful. Thanks brother, it was fun.

• 2:29:09Speaker 01

  Thank you brother.

• 2:29:09Joe Rogan?

  Alright, bye everybody.

• 2:29:25Speaker 00

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