Luka Gets Traded to the Lakers… What??? | With Ryen Russillo and Rob Mahoney

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo and Rob Mahoney for an emergency podcast to discuss the bombshell news that Luka Doncic is headed to the Los Angeles Lakers! Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Ryen Russillo and Rob Mahoney 'Producer: Kyle Crichton The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Bill Simmons?

  Coming up, the most shocking NBA trade, at least since I've been alive, it's next. All right, quick break. This episode is brought to you by Fire TV. You ever sit down, ready to watch the game, only to search and scroll endlessly? If so, you need Fire TV. It shows your live games from your favorite teams all in one place, right on the home screen. No more searching. Just sit down and turn on Fire TV. Separate subscriptions may be required. Feature and content availability may vary. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. And whether it's a flea flicker or a tush push, you need a plan that fits your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you. So they can help personalize coverage for your life and for your budget.

• 0:45Bill Simmons?

  Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. We're also brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network. I have new rewatchables coming for you Monday night. And I have new BS podcasts coming for you Sunday night because Cousins Sal and I are still going to do our Super Bowl props pod. This is a special Saturday night emergency podcast. I did not want to work on a Saturday night. I was hanging out with my wife. All of a sudden, Luka Doncic got traded to the Los Angeles Lakers. Holy shit. Rob Mahoney, Ryan Rusillo, myself, we just hopped on. We banged out an emergency podcast as fast as we possibly could. You can watch this as well on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. Here's the pod. Let's bring in our friends who also can't believe Luka Doncic is a Los Angeles Laker from Pearl Jam.

• 1:49Bill Simmons?

  The most shocking trade. I think in the history of the NBA, at least from a shock value, oh my God, is this real? Has Shams been hacked? What, what, what is happening? Rob Mahoney is here. Ryan Russillo is here. It took me about 10 minutes to figure out, was this real? And then Shams, obviously, he had to retweet. No, no, this is real. Mahoney, you, you followed Dallas pretty closely. Was there any sign whatsoever that Luka was on the block?

• 2:20Speaker 01

  Not like this, at least that I heard. You hear burbling with players of his caliber all the time of like, oh, if he, if it ever got to the point, then maybe the Lakers or a team like that would be consulted. If it ever reached a certain threshold, but this is, I'm completely blindsided by this, as apparently is most of the league, including many of the players in it. Russillo?

• 2:39Speaker 02

  I couldn't believe it. I mean, I was getting texts and then I was like checking with people and then with Bobby Marks was like, hey, this is real. Like Shams had to say, I'm not hacked above it. And then Bobby Marks above that had to be like, this is real. Because the headline of it is that it makes no fucking sense at all. And whatever, we're, you know, we're going to go all over the place and try to figure it out. But like, you have traded at worst, the third best player in the NBA, and when he's right, probably the second best guy. And you've traded him at this age and you've completely reset the Lakers in a way that is basically impossible. So it doesn't make any sense at all.

• 3:20Bill Simmons?

  So my, here, here's my cycle as I went through it. Somebody forwarded me the tweet. I thought it was one of those NBA sent tell, oh no, oh, somebody's messing around. Then you click on it.

• 3:31Speaker 02

  They would have had Ronnie in it.

• 3:33Bill Simmons?

  Right. True. So then you click on it's Sean's his actual account. Then the next thing is, well, this, he had to have been hacked because if you're actually making a trade of Luka Doncic and Anthony Davis, the Lakers would be giving up more stuff. It wouldn't just be the 2029 first, and that's it. I would have been a 2031 first. There would have been pick swaps. And then over the next 10 minutes, it just started to seem like it was real. And that's when I think probably all of us were getting the texts. You start going on Twitter. There's confirmation stuff on Twitter and it's like, I guess that's it. I guess the Lakers just basically hijacked Luka Doncic. Rob, here's this team that over and over again has found ways to reinvent itself over the last 60 years, really.

• 4:16Bill Simmons?

  Going back to when they were able to get Wilt Chamberlain in the end of the, you know, the late 60s. And then Kareem in the 70s and they pull up Magic Johnson in the 80s. Shaq and Kobe show up in the 90s and this just Pau Gasol in 2008. LeBron miraculous out of nowhere in 18 and then this.

• 4:35Speaker 01

  This is almost a totally different level than any of those things. I, I think just because of the pure shock value, because it is a superstar, not even yet in his prime. And we're already starting to see the information filter out from Dallas about why this could have possibly happened. I'm, I am as stunned as anybody and I don't think there is any justifiable explanation for trading a player as good as Luka right now. Unless he, he has come to the maps and said, I don't want to be here anymore.

• 5:01Bill Simmons?

  All right. So he had a year and a half left in his deal.

• 5:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 5:04Bill Simmons?

  And there, maybe there were discussions behind the scene that, that I'm out of here after my contract's up at the end of 26. So if you can get something for me now, but that raises the, the biggest question in this whole thing. If you're going to trade Luka, why not shop them? What can you get for them? Why not actually try to really come through? I don't, do you get that part, Russillo? Why wouldn't they have shopped them to at least like three, four teams?

• 5:29Speaker 02

  It doesn't make any sense. I mean, I'm texting with teams right now and hopefully I'll get some responses here throughout the show on just, you know, did you know that he was available? I'll never forget like teams reaching out just to be pissed off. It's not like they wanted to talk to me that bad when Gasol was traded there.

• 5:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  All right. And I know people have debated about whether or not he was available and all this kind of different stuff. But like, when the actual trade went through, there were other teams being like, we, we, we had no idea that it was like coming to this point.

• 5:56Speaker 02

  And you know, it's, it's not just because it's the Lakers thing. There was a lot of stuff going on at the time that you could kind of read the tea leaves of like how it all came together. But this is not enough of a haul. Like if you were shopping them, you would do better than this. So unless it was to, like you guys said, like Luca going, hey, look, I'm. That's the only place I want to go. But you know, we didn't even go through the cycle. We didn't even go through all the stuff that we're used to like, oh, this guy already wants it. So even if he wanted out, then it's like, so what was the hurry? If this is the return and on top of everything else, like, look, I don't think Dallas is a very good matchup against Boston. That's a good basketball team. And if everybody's healthy and what they've done and drafting lively, the Gavford Washington

• 6:41Speaker 02

  stuff, Kyrie, which by the way, like, does the Kyrie alarm start going off here? Like, are we back on the clock for like, where, what he's thinking about next? Cause he was finally like basketball happy again here for a year and a half. So yeah, my point would be, okay, so say Luca, cause we'll find out more about this stuff. And I wonder if there's like a Dallas hit piece coming, like the old Boston stuff that used to happen with the guy on the Red Sox that goes somewhere else. And then it'll be like a week.

• 7:04Bill Simmons?

  Two days later, Red Sox hit piece?

• 7:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, the Brian Curtis, now you tell us deal. So I don't know if, if that's coming, but I just did my overall thing. I'm sorry, I'm going long here. It's just that, okay, fine. If Luca was forcing your hand, why not just play it out this season? If you're healthy, the West is not as deep. As good as OKC is, all the depth behind it's not what we thought it would be this summer. You just made the NBA finals. He's 25 years old. He's 26 in February. You have him under contract the year after that. There's a player option after, like, you would have done better than like, this deal was not so like, oh, we have to do this right now. We're talking about AD, the 29.

• 7:44Bill Simmons?

  And they got, they got rid of, I guess, some Kleber, Markeith Morris money. Sure. I actually thought Max Christie was just having him thrown in there. I'm like, eh, Max Christie's not like nothing.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  No, he was awesome tonight, by the way, too.

• 7:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. But still, I mean, give me a break. I did my trade value rankings and I put up the thing on Thursday and I had Luca. A big thing for me was trying to decide whether I should move SGA ahead of Luca. And I didn't feel great about it, but Luca's been hurt. Luca had the year and a half left in his deal. And I was just like, I, I, I just think SGA is, seems like slightly more untradeable to me, but I had Luca fourth, Davis 11th. Davis is 31, so he's six years older. Davis already just got hurt a week ago. He's been up and down the whole time. And I just think these are two different classes of players, as great as Davis is. There's Luca, SGA, Jokic, Giannis Tatum.

• 8:40Bill Simmons?

  And now we're starting to drop a little bit to some other next level of person. You could win the finals with Luca as your best guy if you can put the right people around him. So I guess the questions that we're going to have, Rob, coming out of this are, was the Luca Dallas situation worse than leaked out? Did Luca tell them, I'm going to the Lakers in a year and a half? So just trade me there now. If you trade me anywhere else, I'm still going to go to the Lakers and we'll tell the team that's about to trade. Is it, was there more gamesmanship behind the scenes? Or was this Dallas and the Lakers just stealth going, hey, what about, we did this trade? And like neither side had any idea.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  I'm already scared of the, the galaxy braining effect of what is going to happen as a result of this, because it, it does make you want to believe in a conspiracy theory. The fact that this has been buttoned up clearly to the point that it shocked the entire league, shocked the basketball landscape. I, I am, I am stunned that it got to this point. I'm, you know, even if you consider in the trade value that you just laid out, Bill, none of those other guys are going to be available. None of those other guys are going to be on the market. So if you are going to trade Luca, it's going to be for someone in that next class, the Anthony Davis class of player. But you would think there would be more to it than this. You would think that there would be more supplementary pieces involved. And that, that's where all of this seems to have come together so fast. And I'm with you, Russel, like the, the acceleration from whatever instigating event,

• 10:04Speaker 01

  whether it was Luca coming to the Mavs or otherwise, from there to here, I don't understand why that period of time was fast tracked to the degree that it was. There's, we still have days left before the deadline.

• 10:14Bill Simmons?

  Our friend Mark Stein is reporting Luka Doncic did not request a trade.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  What are we doing?

• 10:21Bill Simmons?

  Did this on their own accord? So do you think Luca was just home? Like he, he was watching Night Agent, season two, and it's like the phone rings, Nico Harrison? I have some bad news. We've traded you to the Lakers. Like, I wonder if he was blindsided by this. I just refuse to believe in this league that is so beholden to players and player relationships that, that a superstar would be blindsided. He had to have had some idea, right, Russillo?

• 10:51Speaker 02

  I'm so confused by this. No, you would think, you'd think there had to have been something. What would have motivated them to want to get rid? Like even if we play out, well, you know, he does get hurt. He doesn't take care of his body. He comes in out of shape. You know, there's all this stuff with him. It's like, dude, okay, fine. And he still might be the second best player in the world. Yeah. You know, I would, I would have, I actually have like a bit of a line of like Jokic, which I don't think is really obtainable at this point for any other player. And then it kind of goes back and forth between Giannis and Luka. And then I do have SGA fourth, you know, even with the numbers, I just think that there's, there's a slightly different ceiling with some of those guys. Maybe just because I've seen Luca do it in the playoffs where it's like, there's really nothing to do with that guy.

• 11:35Speaker 02

  Once he just decides he's going to drive and go slow and get you on his hip. It's seriously, I've called it like the best look that you'll get in basketball. Like if you just sort it all out and go, I need the best look that I feel just the best about. As soon as the guy has the ball in his hands, it's that with his passing and his size. So like, even if, because somebody will do it, like somebody will do the,

• 11:58Speaker 02

  well, you know, they were worried about how he was gonna be later on in his career. Okay, worry about that when he's 30 and you have to worry about the extension. Right. He's not even in his prime yet by, by NBA standards, which he's 27, 28. Bobby Marks, you know, points out astutely that he was in line for a massive extension this summer for five years, 345 million. And, you know, as I started to think, okay, but, I mean, as the cap goes up, like that, that looks like Jaylen Brown's deal was the deal where you're like, that's, that's insane. It's also Jaylen Brown and not Luca, but you know, like every year we go through the cycle of deals where you're thinking, you're paying 200 million for that guy. And it's like, dude, in two years, these guys are beginning three, 350 million.

• 12:44Speaker 02

  Now Bobby says he's not going to be eligible for that now. So that changes up some things. The only thing I was thinking was, you know, I always thought the Cuban ownership thing was really weird. That this is somebody that has enjoyed being an owner in sports more than any person, maybe in any sport. This is somebody who nine years ago said, you know,

• 13:04Speaker 02

  What is it? Pigs get fed and hogs get slaughtered when he talks about the NFL? And granted, he was basically pumping up his own product, like going on TV, talking about a position you have in a company when you own all their stock. But he was basically dogging the NFL's future while he was propping up the NBA's future. All right? And that was nine years ago where he was like, it's, it's going to happen. And it hasn't happened. Okay, that's fine. But i- is there anything to this that it was, it was still very, remember too, like, oh yeah, we don't own the team anymore, but we're still gonna run it. You're like, oh yeah, right. Because that's what billionaires love to do, is buy things and let other people make all these decisions.

• 13:39Bill Simmons?

  So you think it was the new owners potentially not wanting to pay the 350?

• 13:43Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't know. I'm, I'm so shocked by this, guys, that like it crossed my mind. Could it be any new owner thing where, but apparently people really like, like think that this group is, they're not gonna screw around with it. So, you know, I don't think you can even buy one of these teams anymore.

• 14:00Bill Simmons?

  So 350, I didn't see, I didn't think he was in like the greatest shape this year. Would you agree, Rob?

• 14:06Speaker 01

  Agreed.

• 14:06Bill Simmons?

  Wouldn't say he was.

• 14:07Speaker 02

  Guys, who cares?

• 14:09Bill Simmons?

  No, I know. I'm just trying to figure out from their perspective. They're worried about, hey, what's going on with this dude? He's, he doesn't seem like the light bulb's going off. He's, we're hearing rumors, maybe he wants to leave unless we give him the 350 million, should we do it? With all that said, I'm raising my hand for the people listening. I just would never trade him.

• 14:29Speaker 01

  Never.

• 14:30Bill Simmons?

  I, I, I just wouldn't. Like I would trade him for Wemby. I would trade him for Jokic. I would trade him for SGA and that's it. There's no other player, unless I'm also getting like five, six first round picks. And when you think this is a league where Mikal Bridges went for five first rounders, or a couple of years ago, KD went for, what was that? Four first rounders, two swaps, Mikal Bridges and Cam Johnson? This just isn't enough for Luka. And I think that's why, like David Aldrich tweeted, he's been covering the NBA 37 years. Um, nothing that happens, deals, free agent signings, coach hiring fires, rises to the level of, as the great Ben Bradley used to call them, a holy shit stories. This is a holy shit trade. I think it's bigger than that. I, the only thing I can think of.

• 15:12Speaker 02

  What would that be called?

• 15:13Bill Simmons?

  I, I think it's a holy fucking shit trade. I, the only thing I can think of is that night when all hell broke loose and Paul George and Kawhi ended up on the Clippers. But at least then we were on kind of call that week. We knew something was happening. We were waiting to see where Kawhi was gonna go.

• 15:31Speaker 02

  It was a week long. We were trying to figure out where Kawhi's kids were registered for school. Like there was stuff happening.

• 15:35Bill Simmons?

  We were on call. Yeah, we're on call like doctors. This is a Saturday night. The Lakers just played. LeBron looked fantastic against the Knicks. Davis was supposed to come back in a couple of days. There was no sign whatsoever and we all thought Shams got hacked. So as far as, since we've all been working together, it's the most shocking NBA trade. But I, I'd have to go through history. I can't imagine a bigger one.

• 15:56Speaker 01

  Well, and, and in that case with Paul George and Kawhi, like Kawhi was on the market. So there were the precursors. There's no market for Luka Doncic. I, I was under the impression frankly, with the way the NBA has been operating over the last five or 10 years, that a player of this caliber would just never be traded again without a demand or a request of some kind on their part. And if, if that really is what happened, that this is entirely preemptive by the Mavs. Granted, maybe they are reading the tea leaves about the extension. Maybe they are forecasting and saying, you know, a year and a half from now, we're gonna have to deal with this in a way that doesn't look good for us. Every other team in these instances holds on too long and ends up driving down some of the value in a potential trade. The fact that the Mavs jumped the line on that market and still came away with what

• 16:41Speaker 01

  feels to be such low value for a player of Luka's caliber. Why, why are you preempting it? Like, why are you getting ahead of yourself and doing something that no other team is willing to do? In part because no other team pretty much has a player as good as Luka.

• 16:54Bill Simmons?

  Well, and you're also, now you have this team that's built around Kyrie, who was 2010 draft? 2011 draft? So he's in his early 30s. Davis was 2012 draft. He's 31. So you have this older team that's kind of built to win right now, but it doesn't have the, uh, the long-term ceiling, I don't think of what they had before. So Bobby Marks said Luka was in line for five for 345 this summer. He was super max eligible being on the same team. That's out the window now because he got traded. So this actually cost him money.

• 17:30Bill Simmons?

  Russillo, can we, can we, I'm still wrapping my head around this. Can we talk about the Dallas piece of this? Does Dallas think this made their team better?

• 17:41Speaker 02

  I don't understand it. I mean, I'm still reading stuff like Shams has another post here that says, quote, "The Mavericks approached the Lakers recently and offered Luka Doncic," sources tell ESPN. Lakers-Brass met and believed the 25-year-old Doncic has the ability to be the face of the franchise for the next decade while giving Anthony Davis a win-now move in Dallas. The best is like the last sentence, like, hey, say something nice about, something nice about Anthony Davis on the way out of here. I love the idea that they, they got the call and then were like, all right, let's, let's kick around some thoughts. You know, how many, how many opposed? You know, uh, you know, they must have thought that they were getting fucked with when that, that call first happens. But yeah, on the Dallas side, you're right.

• 18:24Bill Simmons?

  Well, don't you think they, if you get that call and you're almost like, am I being pranked? Is my phone tapped? Are they trying to, like, they can't, they can't possibly be actually trying to trade Luka Doncic to us?

• 18:35Speaker 01

  Or what's wrong with them? Like, what happened to Luka that they would even want to trade him in the first place?

• 18:40Bill Simmons?

  It's like the, when Paul Pierce dropped to 10 in the 98 draft and he hit around like pick six and all the Celtics were like, what happened? Is he, is he, was he arrested?

• 18:49Speaker 02

  Do we want to take him?

• 18:50Bill Simmons?

  Like, why is he dropping? Russillo, how about this? Dave McBenham just tweeted, "LeBron learned of the Davis-Doncic trade after the Knicks game. He was out to dinner with his family. Sources close to James told ESPN, 'He was surprised by the news as processing it, had no idea it was in the works,' sources said." I actually believe that because I think if any of this even came close to leaking out beyond like the, the immediate people that were involved in it, I think it would have leaked out. That's one of the shocking things about this is that none of this leaked out.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  No.

• 19:22Speaker 02

  I mean, it can't happen, but that also I think speaks to the speed of what this was because if it if they had reached out, say, two weeks ago, I think eventually somebody figures it out. I would say, though, like if Clutch knew, because granted, Davis is their client in this, they, I don't think that they would have leaked, like, what would have been the purpose? Like, you wouldn't want anyone to even know about any of this stuff.

• 19:45Bill Simmons?

  Well, they would have told LeBron. They tell LeBron, and then you don't know what happens. If you tell, like, what if LeBron doesn't want the trade to happen?

• 19:51Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 19:52Bill Simmons?

  If you're LeBron, it's like, I mean, that that's, there's so many pieces to talk about this. But now we have LeBron James and Luka Doncic on the same team. Luca's had the best, I don't know what, seven-year start to a career that any player has had since LeBron. He's been on all the same, and now they're going to be on the same team, which is like, like, that has only happened a couple of times in the history of the league, where it's like, hey, Wilt's now going to be on the team with Elgin Baylor and Jerry West. You know, like, we just don't have superstar, super duper star pairings out of nowhere like this. And I honestly don't know how they fit. I think it's a pretty weird fit, the two of them.

• 20:28Speaker 02

  You know what, though? Like, that used to be something I used to always think about when they would say Chris Paul and LeBron really want to play to play with each other. And when they were at their peaks, I always thought it was a little stupid because I just felt like it was redundant. It was taking away what what both of their greatness was. It was just setting everything up and reading it. And when they were both in their primes, I'm like, why would they actually? I don't even know that that makes a ton of sense. Now, when you watch the Lakers and you think about their best possessions, like, they were so good tonight, man. Their spacing and the way LeBron was reading everything. But a lot of times, like, Austin Reeves, now post Angelo Russell, is tasked with having to figure out a way to set up their offense, because I think he's, he just has the energy to do it. LeBron doesn't have the energy to play point guard the entire time.

• 21:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 21:10Speaker 02

  And then on the other side of it, as good as Reeves has been, he's the number one hunt target for the other team's best player, and they're trying to get him into every single switch. So it's just an exhausting role for Reeves to have all that stuff. And it was the best version of him based on who they had. But now with Luca, like, at this stage at 40 for LeBron, this is great for him. This is, this is fine. Now, we could talk about their defense, because they were always trying to figure out their defense.

• 21:35Bill Simmons?

  Luca, LeBron, and Austin Reeves, all at the same time, three of your five guys?

• 21:39Speaker 02

  And no rim protection. No rim protection. Jackson Hayes is still out right now on the East Coast. He's like, extension, baby.

• 21:48Bill Simmons?

  Jackson Hayes is like, finally.

• 21:50Speaker 02

  You know what it is though? It kind of, I mean, is it worth? Is it worth going like?

• 21:57Speaker 02

  You know, immediately unless there's some more moves, they are kind of a weird team and the Lakers and ownership are like, fuck it. Who cares? Of course they said, who cares? Because now we have arguably the second best player in the world at 25 years old.

• 22:10Bill Simmons?

  Now you do this every time.

• 22:12Speaker 02

  You just do it.

• 22:13Bill Simmons?

  Questions asked.

• 22:14Speaker 02

  But it could.

• 22:15Bill Simmons?

  Blink.

• 22:16Speaker 02

  It could play out for a team that's been playing better. And again, you don't make decisions based on how a team's playing for two weeks, but it could play out that it becomes more of a reset year than a, what if we get lucky in the right playoff matchups? And next thing you know, we're in the Western Conference Finals, even though I think that that was still unlikely going up against some of these other teams that I like better in the West. I don't know that we could completely write it off. This is.

• 22:40Bill Simmons?

  No, because they also might have another trade for some, for some sort of rim.

• 22:43Speaker 02

  Well, they need a big. They need somebody.

• 22:46Bill Simmons?

  I'll say this, man, I.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  I don't think that's Valanciunas as far as room protection.

• 22:50Bill Simmons?

  That's, that's not what you want. No, but maybe it's like a Robert Williams. Well, I don't know if he would be able to stay in the court, but it's that kind of level, like the 10 or 11 million dollar center who can stay near the rim. I'll say this, this team would like, I'm just, it's breaking my brain thinking about it, but LeBron, the way he's looked tonight and a couple of the games recently where he's, he's really, really, really, really good and efficient. And some of the choices he's making and the way they were spreading the floor for him, like he was just annihilated in the Knicks tonight. And then you think about that with Luca and those guys spread out, playing off each other with the offense spread. Like it's, well, it's not nothing, Rob. I'm looking at the Laker odds right now on FanDuel. They have the six best odds now to win the

• 23:34Bill Simmons?

  title at 21 to one. So people are wagering on this, Rob.

• 23:39Speaker 01

  They still need a lot of work in terms of that front court. I mean, just as we said, playable bodies. The Christian Koloko, Jackson Hayes thing, that is, that's not going to get it done. These are small potatoes problems in the scope of when you bring in Luka Doncic. Ultimately, having two supercomputers on the court is just going to give the Lakers something that literally no other team in the league has. And the selective deployment of LeBron that we've been talking about where he can now pick his spots at a level that he's never been able to before. And he was someone who played with prime Dwyane Wade.

• 24:07Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 24:08Speaker 01

  That in itself puts them in such a unique space that is frankly unquantifiable in terms of what the title race is. I will rule nothing out at this point. Lakers exceptionalism clearly is a thing that exists. And we need to acknowledge that they can move the pieces around the board in ways that no other team can. There are big markets. Dallas is one of the biggest markets in the league. There are massive markets that operate in their own ways. And then there's the Lakers in their own zone of existence, making shit like that. This happened on a regular basis.

• 24:37Bill Simmons?

  From a hunting the weak link on the other team standpoint, this is kind of a nightmare now with Luca and LeBron. If they can actually figure it out how to kind of balance that. And there's, there's always going to be somebody who are like, oh, you're gonna, that's who you're gonna have on him? Oh, cool. And if they can figure that, they still need some rim protection. Russillo.

• 25:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, but we've all know, like, we don't even need to say it, but maybe we just say it when we're time. Like, I think the point is, is even if they feel like they can't fix themselves, none of it matters.

• 25:08Bill Simmons?

  You still do it. Yeah. So Russillo, here's the question for you.

• 25:13Bill Simmons?

  What else would you have thrown into this trade from the Lakers side before you said yes if you were Dallas? The trade they already made, if you were the Dallas GM, what more would you have had to get?

• 25:27Speaker 02

  Nothing. There would have, there would not have been a trade. I would have gone to a different team. I would have asked for all their picks. I would have said, San Antonio, you're going to give me all your picks. I'm even going to make up some shit. And I'm getting Castle and I'm getting Vassell and. You know, I'm getting, I'm getting at least one really good young player that profiles to be a difference maker, which still like, sometimes we fall in love with these guys so much that you're like, you can go back, it's kind of like the J.J. Hickson, Amari Stoudemire thing. Granted, Amari ended up being hurt a little bit, but it was like, you know, he'd love to have Amari, but, but you know, we can't put J.J. Hickson in the deal. And yeah, it just happens time and time again. And I'll admit, even like right now, when I think about the Fox Castle stuff, I'll be like, ah, man, Castle, there's something to him. But then, you know, that's

• 26:10Speaker 02

  where you can start making some mistakes. So as far as like, what would the Lakers need to keep adding for me to say yes? If the core of this is Anthony Davis, who last year was fantastic. All right. But it was the first All-Star team he had made in three years. He played 76 games. Before that, he'd played 56, 40, 36, 62, and 56. So it was his first 70 game season since 2018. And as much as we love what he is, and he's already got the ring, and he was so good last year, you're like, I gotta, I'm, I'm trading for him? I'm trading for Anthony Davis? So if Anthony Davis is the main piece I'm getting back, because I guess they can argue, hey, we're just different, but now we're competing, and

• 26:54Speaker 02

  Luca wasn't even playing, and we got some bad news, and it might take another month, and things were getting a little weird. Okay, fine. So I guess you're not resetting it the way we would normally expect a franchise and roster to have to reset on moving on from somebody like this. But it's, what's, what's more likely? Davis just ages really well the next four years?

• 27:15Bill Simmons?

  No, I, I feel like we're at the tail end of the prime with him. Yeah, for me, like, if you, if you, if somebody tasked us, not knowing this trade was gonna happen, make up, make up a Dallas Lakers trade.

• 27:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:27Bill Simmons?

  Reeves would have to be in it. It would have to be Davis and Reeves.

• 27:31Speaker 02

  Or Dalton.

• 27:32Bill Simmons?

  I would assume.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  He's untouchable. Don Connect untouchable.

• 27:36Bill Simmons?

  The 29 pick and the 31 pick. I would have wanted swaps in 28 and 30. I'm sticking you with the worst contract I have on my team. You're taking that too. Like, we're going.

• 27:46Speaker 02

  It's the Vando deal. No, it's the Vando deal.

• 27:48Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 27:49Speaker 02

  Now, I'd have to have all the math in front of me here. Once Davis and the other stuff is included, then maybe it doesn't work or whatever. But like, Vando's, I, every five minutes, I still can't believe it happened.

• 27:59Bill Simmons?

  So Windhorse, I guess, was on ESPN saying that, uh, the clip notes are, the Lakers were the only offer.

• 28:09Bill Simmons?

  That Dallas had in their pocket, he didn't think Dallas could get all they could get from LA and that Dallas was hesitant to offer Luka the super max this summer. I have no idea why Dallas was hesitant to offer Luka the super max this summer unless they, even if they had some sort of crazy insights to his terrible diet habits, some sort of physical issues that maybe they're only aware of, I still would offer him the super max. He's Luka Doncic, made the finals last year.

• 28:34Speaker 01

  No doubt.

• 28:35Bill Simmons?

  So I don't, I don't, I, I just don't understand.

• 28:38Speaker 02

  He could have been smoking cigarettes, Bill. He could have been smoking cigarettes, bringing the ball up the fucking court and I would still be like, when can we sign you to the super max?

• 28:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 28:45Speaker 02

  By the way, I've heard from multiple teams that I sent texts to in the beginning of this thing, not one team even thought, they were like completely shocked.

• 28:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 28:54Speaker 02

  Totally off the radar. People did not know that he was even available.

• 28:59Bill Simmons?

  No. So this is.

• 29:00Speaker 02

  No, I'm not, I'm not, right.

• 29:02Bill Simmons?

  This is Pau Gasol the sequel, but it's like the Dennis Thibault sequel.

• 29:05Speaker 01

  It's so much worse.

• 29:06Bill Simmons?

  Where the, the budget is way bigger. It's like, this is not, this is not little indie high school anymore.

• 29:10Speaker 02

  So it's Gladiator 2?

• 29:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, this is a big budget.

• 29:16Bill Simmons?

  I, uh, as you guys know, I kinda hate the Lakers. Um, this is infuriating.

• 29:22Speaker 02

  You're fair though. You're fair about it.

• 29:23Bill Simmons?

  Bill, Bill Boston fan is infuriated. How dare they get Luka Doncic? What the fuck? And then what if he gets in like awesome shape in a year? And now they're like, reset. I, I felt like the Lakers were, you know, they weren't real title contenders. They were just delusional enough to think they could be title contenders and they weren't. They were headed the wrong direction and now this is, this has saved them because Dallas didn't feel like their, Luka Doncic was worth $340 million over five years in a league where everybody is getting 300 million for five years now.

• 29:55Speaker 01

  If that part is true, this is just gonna go down as one of the biggest self-inflicted wounds in NBA history. The fact that, that's where they balked. That's where the line is. Inexplicable shit.

• 30:08Bill Simmons?

  I think so. I'm trying to think though.

• 30:10Speaker 02

  Do you think you'll wake up tomorrow, Bill, though? I'm sorry to interrupt you, but like when something like this happens where everybody is going, you've got to be in again, guys in the that work in the league are texting me going, I can't believe this, just like we can't believe it. Is there a moment three days from now where you think you'll understand more?

• 30:28Bill Simmons?

  There's two things I'm not going to understand. One, how is this the trade? I I'm just going to trust my blink reaction to reading it and thinking it was Shams getting hacked because the trade seems so lopsided. I just couldn't, but I was like, ah, they fucked that up when they hacked Shams. That's one. And then two, how do you not chop them? You have this incredible asset. You basically, you have an open house for the best house in your neighborhood. And the first person walks in and makes you not feel like done, done, cancel, cancel everyone else who came in. I'm done. Wait, wait, I think we could get more. Nope, nope. That was the first offer. We got it. Uh, I just don't understand that. It's just bad business. But he's not even the house. He's the neighborhood. Like this isn't an asset.

• 31:12Bill Simmons?

  Like this is not a tradable player. No, it's not unless unless it's for Jokic or Wemba Yama or SGA. Even then you would have to really think about it. That's how good Luca is.

• 31:25Bill Simmons?

  So I guess Tatum's more untradable than than Luca, Brusilo. It's one of my lessons tonight. I don't think the Celtics do this trade.

• 31:35Bill Simmons?

  Big win for the Celts.

• 31:38Bill Simmons?

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• 33:49Bill Simmons?

  So everyone you're hearing from is like, we had no idea he was available.

• 33:53Speaker 02

  Again, I'm not talking to 29 teams here. I'm not that cool to get 29 texts back, or I guess I would ask for 28 texts back. But yeah, multiple, multiple teams.

• 34:04Bill Simmons?

  Another Tim McMahon. We missed this one. The Mavs had major concerns about moving forward Luka Doncic due to his constant conditioning issues and limited commitment of another supermax contract extension. So we're gonna get the, now, now they tell a story Monday?

• 34:22Bill Simmons?

  About the war behind the scenes to keep Luka in shape, that whole thing?

• 34:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, but we all knew this stuff. Like, and none of it mattered, and they still made the finals. In the Western Conference Finals two years before that. So if you're gonna say like, hey, if he were 32 and available for whatever the most it was, and you're trading for 31-year-old AD, and, you know, it's run its course, and he's been there a decade plus, okay, fine. All right. So say all of it, because you're right, it's all going to happen.

• 34:51Speaker 02

  What's the problem with shopping them? There's nothing that tells me this would be the best deal if you called 28 GMs and said, "It's real. You have 48 hours. Put together your best offer." And by the way, you'd leak it. You'd leak it so that everybody knew. That everybody knew that it was serious. So that when it's leaked to say a Brian Windhorst, right? Who he'll probably go, "I can't believe this is happening. Don't burn me on this." He would have to have the relationship with Nico or somebody with that team. You know, that's how this stuff works. And then all of a sudden, like Windhorst is getting calls from teams saying, "Is this serious? Like, what do you think they're doing?" And then Windhorst is almost like in that position. Cause that's kind of like Woj was so powerful, man. Woj was so powerful that people be checking in on him going like, "What's going on over

• 35:35Speaker 02

  there in Dallas?" And then Woj would be telling him the truth. But you would be doing that. You'd be planting that seed so that everybody knew because this guy is now available. So put in your final bids because we're serious about this. And then you start bidding against things you don't need. You know what I mean? Like when there's those blind bids for,

• 35:57Speaker 02

  Dice Gay Matsuzaku had the mysterious gyro ball. Remember like they were blind bids?

• 36:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 36:02Speaker 02

  And so you didn't know. You're like, "Should we offer 15 or 51 million?" And you're like, "Well, you know, it's, I don't want to lose this guy." So you're almost bidding against yourself a little bit. So even if all that stuff, which is going to come out, the negative Luka, he was all of these things. We want to get in front of it. You don't want to get this in front of it. You don't want to get so in front of it that the rest of the league doesn't know that he's available. So, I mean, to me, this is like fireable shit. And that's why I wonder like, did ownership get involved in some level? But from what I've heard, it wouldn't make sense. Like who's buying a team now that's scared off from a supermax, especially when it's somebody like this?

• 36:40Bill Simmons?

  Rob is shaking his head as violently as if it was the worst season finale of all time on the Prestige TV podcast. And him and Joey and I were just like, "I just can't believe they did that. I just can't believe it." It's just presumed innocent all over again. My brain is breaking. It was a time machine?

• 36:57Speaker 01

  The thing that's really shaking me up, and we touched on it earlier, is there isn't even the plausible deniability of trading for things that are on a completely different timeline. Like if you weren't trading for another player in his ostensible prime, and it was all of these picks, all of these swaps, you can at least understand an underlying logic. It would still be questionable, but here you have one pick, no swaps, Max Christie, thank God. You couldn't even get Jalen Hood Shafino out of Utah.

• 37:31Bill Simmons?

  Russillo, remember I texted you today about the Utah?

• 37:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:34Bill Simmons?

  And I was like, this set, but so Utah made that weird trade today where they took PJ Tucker's contract and they took money and the Clippers and it was like, man, this is a weird trade. And I texted Russillo and I said, this, my shit detector is going off. You do this kind of trade when there's another trade coming. And we were like, oh, I wonder if it's going to be John Collins and PJ Tucker for Brandon Ingram, not realizing it was going to be Luka fucking Doncic as the third team. But so I'm trying to think, like if they had offered him to San Antonio and the three of us were running San Antonio.

• 38:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:14Bill Simmons?

  We would have a two hour meeting and we would basically say, all right, how much, like we could basically give up every single asset we have. And if we just end up with Luka and Wemby, we're probably good. So if they, do they want Castle, Vassell, seven first round picks? Like, yeah, let's, let's do it. Let's do, oh, they want us to take a bad contract. Like whatever I had to do to just get Luka and Wemby on the same team, I would have done it. And the Lakers basically got it. It feels like 40 cents on the dollar. 41 cents on the dollar, Russillo?

• 38:47Speaker 01

  I just keep wondering.

• 38:48Bill Simmons?

  Forty-two?

• 38:50Speaker 02

  What do we not understand? What do we not understand about this?

• 38:56Bill Simmons?

  Dallas is now under the luxury tax.

• 38:59Speaker 02

  Cool.

• 39:00Bill Simmons?

  So that happened.

• 39:01Speaker 01

  Congrats.

• 39:01Bill Simmons?

  According to Bobby Marks, they're 628,000 under the luxury tax. What, what would you, Rob, you know, some Dallas fans.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  They're not doing well, by the way.

• 39:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, I don't even know, what would you say to a Dallas fan who thought Luca was going to be in their life for the next 15 years?

• 39:18Speaker 01

  There's no consoling a fan of a team like that in a situation like this. And, and as we said, there's no precedent to say like, oh, look, it worked out. Okay. For this other team and this other star, like they rebooted, they got things together.

• 39:30Speaker 02

  Marc Gasol ended up being pretty good.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  Max Christie could be their Marc Gasol, you know, that's really what they're hoping for.

• 39:37Speaker 02

  He's further along than Mark was.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  We should say congratulations, congratulations to Anthony Davis, who will be playing with a center. You know, Daniel Gafford for now, Derek Lively later, you get what you wish for. Congratulations to Anthony Davis.

• 39:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  There's no coming back from this. And, and I would say the, the polar extremes of a fan base that was able to hold on to Dirk for so long. And had all of the hopes in the world that Luca could be that same kind of fixture within the franchise. Maybe that was always a bit of a stretch. Maybe no player in the modern NBA is that kind of thing anymore. But I think they all counted on him being around longer than this. And certainly if he did leave, there being a little bit more ceremony to it. There being a little bit more of a bidding war to it. And not just swept out the door in the night for Anthony Davis and a pick in Max Christie.

• 40:24Bill Simmons?

  It's one of the biggest mistakes. I feel very comfortable saying this right after the trade. It's one of the biggest mistakes I can ever remember an NBA franchise making.

• 40:32Speaker 02

  How is there not a swap?

• 40:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 40:34Speaker 02

  How are there no swap? Every trade now, it's like, oh, and by the way, we get two swaps.

• 40:39Bill Simmons?

  We have seven swaps and 14 second round picks.

• 40:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, there are swaps. There was a swap in a Houston deal where I was like, that's such a stupid swap. Like it's already set in stone that it's not going to happen.

• 40:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 40:50Speaker 02

  But you wanted to be able to say potentially, we have this other pick. Because I think it was an in-season deal. It, it may have been the Harden Nets thing where the way the math worked on the swap was like, oh, we also get like the swap this year. And you're like.

• 41:04Bill Simmons?

  It was the Nets Houston one.

• 41:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:06Bill Simmons?

  Where it was like, yeah, we're going to swap and we had no chance.

• 41:08Speaker 02

  There was no way, there was, there was no way that was actually going to be in play that they would want to swap picks of them. But it just sounded better, right? Because all of these trades get reported as like, and potentially up to five trade or five first round picks. How? I don't like that part of it was one of the first things where I thought it was hacked. I was like, oh, the guy hacked him and wasn't smart enough to put in like two swaps because this deal would always have a couple of swaps in it.

• 41:32Bill Simmons?

  So two things. Number one, this is, this is where like I have to go back to things I've written in the past and regurgitate them. The FU factor with Luka now is going to be unbelievable. And I think he's the wrong guy to challenge with an FU.

• 41:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:51Bill Simmons?

  I can't think of somebody in our lives from a basketball standpoint that I'm more excited about to have like a fucking fire lit under his ass now. Like, really? You guys traded me? Like, what happens if he really takes this serious? It's like, all right. And then, you know, I, I never felt like from a physical, physical diet, the whole thing, it always felt like there was going to be some year coming. We would joke about it on all of our podcasts. Oh, wait till the year when there's the video of Luka in August and he's fucking working out and he's jacked and, you know, he's eating, he's eating grilled chicken and beets, pickles. Maybe that's going to happen. That's one. The other one is, uh, I, is LeBron the next move here?

• 42:36Speaker 02

  No.

• 42:36Bill Simmons?

  Cause I had somebody that, uh, knows things was saying that they do this. They don't give LeBron a, a heads up. And then the next move is LeBron to Golden State.

• 42:46Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 42:48Bill Simmons?

  And they're just basically out of the LeBron and AD business and rebooting.

• 42:52Speaker 02

  What happens to Bronny?

• 42:55Bill Simmons?

  I think he's probably in the trade.

• 42:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:57Bill Simmons?

  I think he has to come. LeBron, he had a lefty layup today.

• 42:59Speaker 02

  He's in Santa Cruz.

• 43:00Bill Simmons?

  He, he got one today.

• 43:02Speaker 02

  He did.

• 43:03Bill Simmons?

  And still go percentages in the teens again.

• 43:05Speaker 02

  I love all the announcers.

• 43:10Bill Simmons?

  But could, what if LeBron was like?

• 43:12Speaker 02

  Everybody has to be nice, Seth.

• 43:13Bill Simmons?

  LeBron has the no trade clause, but what if LeBron's like, all right, now I'm next? And, um, and that door was open too. Or maybe he'll be like, this is great. I can't wait to play Luka Doncic.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  And then Lake up blows up the deal because he's like, I'm not paying tax on Bronny's extension.

• 43:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Can we stretch Bronny for the next 18 years? Um, what did, Russell, what do you think about the FU side of the Luka thing now?

• 43:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:37Bill Simmons?

  Could you see a year in three years where he's just in awesome shape and just declaring war on the league?

• 43:43Speaker 02

  I would hope so. I mean, just think how much scarier that would be, but I think he's always one of those guys. Jokic has a bit of this where you always think Jokic is spent and it's just the way he carries himself for his 35 to 38 minutes a night. And, you know, granted, it's been cranked up what he's had to do, especially the beginning there with all the injuries. But Luca is somebody who forever throughout the game, he constantly looked like he's hurt. He's, you know, he's a bit theatrical with it. LeBron has been that way for a good chunk of his career. We were like, oh no, is he going to get up? Is he going to get up? So maybe, but I, he's a pretty mad guy. I mean, he's probably one of the maddest players and you would want that to translate in some of the off season stuff. And I think there have been times too in Dallas where I'd hear like, okay, we

• 44:26Speaker 02

  really expect him to kind of come in so pissed off. The problem is like, what are you going to do? Like he, it's not like he's putting up 30 and they're the 11 seed in the West, you know? So whatever his approach is, it's kind of hard to tell him, hey, you need to change this thing. Cause I know that his, his background is that, you know, is he's just kind of different. Obviously he's very different. His father's different. Like it's a different kind of culture and the way they kind of look at the profession of the whole thing. I don't know what the LeBron part of it is. I wonder, Rob, like, do you think, do you think AD feels like I'm out of this and this is cool? Or I went to the one team

• 45:05Speaker 02

  that Clutch wanted me to go to, to be paired up with LeBron, win the title. And, you know, granted, you know, the Lakers are just going to do this no matter what.

• 45:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 45:16Speaker 02

  Or, you know, is there a part of this where if LeBron's 35, they don't do it because they're worried about the relationship more with LeBron. But again, then they, maybe they don't take his kid. I'm just kind of thinking about the clutch part of it. If Davis is thinking, hey, it's cool, whatever. I'm always, you know, Dallas would be one of the five places I'd want to play. I have, I don't know if he has any relationship with Kyrie. They're going to say all the right things and all that kind of stuff.

• 45:40Bill Simmons?

  Rob, before you answered that, there was stuff on there about AD and Nico Harrison had a really good relationship and that was one of the reasons Dallas wanted to trade for him. Take that for what you will.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  The Nico Harrison part of this is fascinating too, because he had done a pretty tremendous job overhauling the Mavericks roster over the last couple of years. Like even moves, I was highly skeptical when they traded for Kyrie in the first place. I didn't quite see the vision of that. It was just hit after hit after hit.

• 46:05Speaker 02

  I think it's fair of everybody to be like, I don't know that I would want to trade for him, but at that point, yeah, go ahead, go ahead.

• 46:11Speaker 01

  And at this point, if you are AD, I agree that if you're a player of his stature at his position that plays the way he does, if you look around the league, Dallas is a pretty good spot for AD to land. And the compliment of being the return for Luka Doncic is a pretty strong endorsement of your game in and of itself. What's a little confusing to me as we kind of juxtapose all of the pieces in this deal. Not only are the Mavs getting AD, they're getting this 2029 pick. But we just said that Luka Doncic is not only this level of playmaker, but this level of fuck you competitor. Are you, you're betting that a Luka Doncic Lakers team isn't going to be that good in 2029? I, I think they're going to be pretty fucking good.

• 46:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, you would almost want the 2031 pick over the 29 pick. Or just get fucking both of them because you traded for Luka Doncic. Give me both picks. What picks do you have? I'm going to take all the remaining picks you have. I'm getting a slew of texts and they're now moving as we're like 40 minutes after the trade, 45 minutes. Two camps are now emerging. The, this league fixed it for the Lakers. This is fucking bullshit. You've got to investigate this. I'm getting those texts.

• 47:16Speaker 02

  Are you doing that monologue on Tuesday's pod?

• 47:20Bill Simmons?

  I want to research it more and maybe talk to, talk to some lawyers. And then there's some, there's some clutch and AD and LeBron pushed the Lakers too far and they finally said, fuck it, we've had it. And that was why they didn't give them a heads up and that stuff. I actually believe that because I think when the, when there was those stories last week about, what was it a week or two weeks ago about, we need some help, we've got to improve the roster.

• 47:46Speaker 02

  I was in the building when it was early.

• 47:47Bill Simmons?

  Are you guys fucking serious? We're doing this again? You're doing that, we've got to improve the roster, passive aggressive thing. Your roster is actually pretty good.

• 47:56Bill Simmons?

  So I wonder if maybe they're just trying to get out of this business completely.

• 47:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:59Bill Simmons?

  And plus they traded for Luka Doncic. So of course they're doing that.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  So they trade for Luka Doncic and the Lakers get to be the little guy standing up to big bad clutch.

• 48:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, the little $7 billion team standing up. To the 15 billion dollar agency.

• 48:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. By the way, six months after they drafted his son and gave him a two year hundred million dollar extension. And so like, you know, wow, you guys really told them.

• 48:23Bill Simmons?

  You did it, guys.

• 48:25Speaker 01

  I knew they could.

• 48:26Speaker 02

  If we want to compliment them, do you think Palenka at some point, like Nico was like, I need two firsts and Palenka had the balls to go?

• 48:33Bill Simmons?

  Nah. Yeah, we're good. He's like, what about a 2030 swap? He's like, nope, my offer's my offer. My shitty offer stands.

• 48:42Speaker 02

  Right. Cause the story about when the Celtics did that Nets deal, when it was all of their picks, like, it was like a real Christopher Columbus type moment with one of those trades. And I remember I was in Brooklyn for the draft because I was doing the draft for ESPN and I, I remember how confused I was at first. I was like, so they get this pick, but then they have the right to do this. And the story goes that they were like, hey, it's Prokhorov. Just keep asking.

• 49:06Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 49:06Speaker 02

  They'd agree and then it's like.

• 49:07Bill Simmons?

  That's how they got the 17 swap. That's how they got the Tatum pick. But the last second, they were like, hey, we want that too. And he's like, oh, that's fine. That sounds good. I will give you that.

• 49:17Speaker 02

  Sounds like Prokhorov right there.

• 49:18Bill Simmons?

  Thank you. I've been working on my Prokhorov. I knew it was going to come in handy. Yeah. So, so Dallas, Nico Harrison, uh, um, really values the center position, apparently values conditioning and doesn't value picks in the 2030s. That's what we've learned.

• 49:34Speaker 01

  I'm just trying to think of how it would have hit me if someone would have told me a week ago, Rob Palenka is going to win executive of the year and what it would take to get us to that point. But I think it just happened.

• 49:46Bill Simmons?

  I think it just happened. There's one other, oh, Tim McMahon reporting that Luca was pushing 270 pounds. Um.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  I don't care. Like.

• 49:54Speaker 02

  I don't give a shit.

• 49:55Speaker 01

  370.

• 49:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Um, we're still, can we talk about Hood Shafino's fit with the Jazz? How do you see him playing off of John Collins and some of their bigs?

• 50:06Speaker 01

  How are he and Sensible all going to play together?

• 50:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 50:09Speaker 02

  I just don't want my guy Will Hardy to retire this year. If there's another on ball dominant dude while marketing is standing off to the side.

• 50:18Bill Simmons?

  Just being sad.

• 50:20Speaker 02

  The number of times, I like Yante George, but the number of times I'll see him dribble in and then not get the angle. And then be like, all right, let me just reset this. Like Trey Young watches that film. It's like, dude, you gotta move the ball a little bit. He'll go, I mean, granted, it doesn't happen all the time. Anyway, nobody wants a jazz breakdown out of this point. Um, I, I think you wait your whole life to have a player like this. A franchise waits.

• 50:44Bill Simmons?

  I agree.

• 50:46Speaker 02

  You know, you hope to have, you know, there's some teams that are spoiled. Your team, Bill, the Lakers are spoiled. Chicago certainly had that one guy. I'm not saying Luca's MJ or any of that kind of stuff. And LeBron's had some different stops as a more modern version of, of what we're used to in the NBA. But you hope, you know, as, as an owner or a city, you get somebody that makes you think anything is possible if you have the right pieces around him.

• 51:11Bill Simmons?

  Like what happened last year.

• 51:13Speaker 02

  Yep. Yeah. Right. And, you know, the fact that he turns 26.

• 51:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. You're talking about somebody who has a chance to go down as one of the 15 best players of all time. We, we haven't seen anything yet that would make me think that's not still in play. And he's hit every sort of statistical benchmark you'd want. He's made the finals already, which is a huge piece of when you're talking about the greatest guys ever. Did they actually have a moment where they got to the big stage pretty early in their career? He did that. We know that players peak 26, 27, 28. He's not even those ages yet. And now he's going to be playing for the Lakers. He's going to be a huge star. He's going to love it here. He's going to be a big celebrity in a city's celebrities. And he's playing for, you know, this is the most famous franchise that we have in the NBA.

• 52:01Bill Simmons?

  Has been the most successful because the Celtics have won a couple more titles. I don't count the Minnesota ones, but this is the most famous franchise in the NBA. It is. They've been the most famous franchise for 60 years. Celebrity fans, they keep winning, they're relevant every single decade. And they pulled it off again. I just can't believe it.

• 52:19Speaker 02

  How many is this? So it's Will, it's Kareem, it's Shaq.

• 52:24Bill Simmons?

  Yep.

• 52:24Speaker 02

  It's LeBron, it's Luca. Am I missing anybody that's kind of?

• 52:27Bill Simmons?

  Will Kareem, and they luck out with the Magic trade. That was ridiculous.

• 52:31Speaker 02

  Right, it's a trade, but he's, I'm saying like.

• 52:34Bill Simmons?

  Gasol.

• 52:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:35Bill Simmons?

  Um, yeah. Kobe, but like 12 teams passed on Kobe, but then especially like, uh.

• 52:40Speaker 02

  I'm talking about like player acquisition.

• 52:42Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, and player acquisitions, Gasol is a big one, and then Davis is the last one. So it's, they have.

• 52:49Speaker 02

  So, so say that again. So it's Will, it's Kareem, it's Shaq, it's Gasol, it's LeBron, it's Davis, and it's Luca?

• 53:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Just players they didn't draft.

• 53:05Speaker 01

  Who just showed up.

• 53:06Bill Simmons?

  Into their franchise, yeah. Because people love living in Los Angeles, including me and Russillo. Um, alright.

• 53:14Speaker 02

  No one traded for me.

• 53:15Bill Simmons?

  So, just one, one, the only thing we didn't really cover is a Lakers team that will have Rui Hachimura, LeBron James, we think, unless he's the next piece of this, Austin Reeves, Jackson Hayes, Finney Smith, Vanderbilt, Gabe Vincent, Connect, and Luca, when he comes back, and I assume they'll trade for some sort of big rub.

• 53:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and I think.

• 53:42Bill Simmons?

  I don't want to see that team in a playoff series. Sorry, I don't.

• 53:45Speaker 01

  I don't care who is on Luca's team, I wouldn't want to play against him in a playoff series. And, and this is part of this formula too, is not only is Luca one of the best players in the world, he's uniquely capable of lifting up minimum salary guys, mid salary guys, all the players that are going to be essential in a, in a apron luxury, like luxury era, luxury tax era. He's the player that makes those pieces work, that makes a Christian Koloko viable, right? That will make Jackson Hayes viable, that will allow you to find like who he broadens the range of the supporting talent you can put around him to make it make sense. And so, yeah, if it is LeBron and Luca and Rui and Austin Reeves and whoever you can buttress around that, it's going to be competitive. It's going to be formidable because Luka Doncic is a part of it.

• 54:30Bill Simmons?

  And it's, I would say, one of the biggest gambles in the history of the league. The Mavericks, who basically seemed like they just wanted to get out of the Luka Doncic business, which was frightening enough, a decision to make. But then on top of it to not chop him. I think it's going to be something that if it works out the way I think the three of us might think it's going to work out, that we'll be talking about for the rest of the time we talk about basketball. It's like, remember when the Mavericks did that? Remember when they just didn't chop Luca at all? They traded him for 28 cents of the dollar. It's an amazing trade. I think we hit everything. Anything else, Russillo?

• 55:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just want to follow up Rob's point, though, a little bit on like what's possible around it, you know, long term and how he raises your floor so much. I always think there's these conference finals runs with teams that are really fluky, can actually cause more damage to the team in believing there's something that they're not. And maybe a couple of years ago, you could have made that case for Dallas, but they turned the team over. They're better. They make it to the NBA Finals. And we know it's primarily because of Luca. But if you look at like that team that played against the Warriors and lost in five games a couple of years ago, like look at the shot attempts. Luca took 118. Here are the next shot attempt leaders. Jalen Brunson, who was not even close to like, I can't even say half formed, like not even fully formed, Jalen Brunson,

• 55:47Speaker 02

  Dinwiddie, Dorian Finney-Smith, Reggie Bullock, Maxie Kleba, Bertans. Like, those are the guys taking shots against the Warriors. And that's the team that he had in the Western Conference Finals. So I'm totally with you on how he raises it. But I do wonder how much of it is kind of like feeling each other out, knowing that you kind of have to stay glued to your spot for Luca on those drives because he's going to make the pass at the last possible second. I mean, that's stuff that basketball players can figure out pretty quickly. Like, don't reset and move from your spot because he's going to find you. But defensively, yeah, I mean, there's still, there are, this is a, no one's going to sit here and go like, oh, I don't like him now defensively in playoffs. That's not what this is about, is you have a face of the franchise that's this special for the next

• 56:30Speaker 02

  seven years, probably. Because hell, as much as we could worry about his conditioning, if he's this good already. Right. He's already played at the body type of the guy that ages later on. So I can't believe it. I can't, I just, I know I've already said it a million times. I don't know how you run a basketball team and you don't let the world know that he's available.

• 56:54Bill Simmons?

  And then for the Lakers, when you're looking at the tail end of this LeBron thing, God only knows how many more years he's going to play. But when you think you got to keep the building filled, you got the most expensive seats in the league. You got all those suites. And it's like, well, what are we going to, are going to, people will be coming to see Anthony Davis and Austin Reeves. And now you have Luca, who other than Otani is now the biggest, and LeBron, obviously, but LeBron's on the tail end. But now you have Luca, who has a chance to be the biggest star in the city. And your other option was Austin Reeves. Rob seems kind of like sneaky devastated. You just know too many Dallas Mavericks fans. There'll be a lot of hugs in your future, a lot of like Zooms where you're just telling people it's okay.

• 57:38Speaker 01

  A lot of just nodding acknowledgement with people who are in deep existential pain. And you just have to be there for them in the way that you can. You have to listen. You have to, you have to feel everything that they're feeling. Honestly, for everything that Dallas is going through, I am in utter disbelief of exactly what you just laid out, which is the expedience of the Lakers reset. I just, I, I had taken it into account that whenever the LeBron era, or the AD era, or the combined era coasted out, it would take a couple of years at least before they could find their next Shaq, their next Kareem. We know they're gonna do it. Yeah. Maybe, maybe this would be the one time where it would actually take a significant window before the next superstar walked in the door. We really didn't even have to wait. The era didn't even,

• 58:20Speaker 01

  like this is the smoothest transition of power that we've seen in recent NBA history. It is jarring on every possible basketball level and an inexplicable trade for Dallas. And it just doesn't get better than this if you're the Lakers. It really doesn't.

• 58:33Speaker 02

  I mean, think about it. They had a six-year playoff trial before they won it.

• 58:37Bill Simmons?

  Right. One other thing I was thinking, I was just thinking back to my pyramid, like the best guys ever.

• 58:43Bill Simmons?

  Some of them got traded, right? Like LeBron switched teams, Kareem got traded. Wilt got traded a couple of times.

• 58:51Speaker 02

  Moses.

• 58:52Bill Simmons?

  Moses got traded, but really signed with Philly and then they traded him. Durant changed teams. You go through the top 20, KG got traded, but he decided where he was going. If you go through the top 25 players ever, none of them were blindsided by being traded. This is the first time, somebody at least who has like top 25, top 30 all time talent. I'm going through like Barkley, Cousy, I guess Barkley, but Barkley knew he was going to get traded that summer. Kawhi Leonard was demanding a trade that whole summer. Like this is the first time we've seen somebody with that kind of talent just been like, hey dude, you're out of here. Here's, here's the number of the new GM, call him, he'll tell you how to get your stuff. Like this is just an unconscionable trade.

• 59:36Bill Simmons?

  I think it's a massive mistake and I think it's an amazing day for the Lakers. And I refuse to congratulate them. I can't believe this happened again. How does this happen? The Pau Gasol trade and this, how does this happen? Where there were no other bidders for a guy that nine teams wanted.

• 59:53Speaker 02

  The, the Pau one's easy to explain.

• 59:56Bill Simmons?

  Is it? Incompetence.

• 59:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, there's, there was a lot of, I just remember the conversations at the time. You're like, oh, okay.

• 1:00:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:05Speaker 02

  That seems to make sense.

• 1:00:06Bill Simmons?

  So two weeks ahead.

• 1:00:07Speaker 02

  I'm worried about Bill because you're going to have access to these people in your life. They're going to start hammering, kind of like the Chiefs get too many calls stuff.

• 1:00:15Bill Simmons?

  The conspiracy stuff.

• 1:00:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:16Bill Simmons?

  It's going to get me riled up. You're right. I gotta be careful.

• 1:00:19Speaker 02

  Right. Just be careful because I'm worried about your next episode. And if Kopitar signs an extension with the Kings, then you're going to be like, oh, wait. This was all countrymen. They were all.

• 1:00:29Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:00:30Speaker 02

  Wow. All in it together.

• 1:00:31Bill Simmons?

  Like a big Slovenian thing. Jesus, I didn't even think of that. Thank you to, uh, thank you to nephew Kai, who I, I, I don't think was 100% sober tonight, but it's fine. I think he was functional enough to produce the pod. That's why he's a pro. Listen, it was the day off for all of us. Thank God, uh, my wife is doing dry February. I'd like to thank her that I wasn't drinking wine tonight and that I was able to do the podcast. Thanks to Rob Mahoney and Ryan Russillo on very short notice. And, uh, I can't wait to find out more about why the fuck this trade happened. You can listen or you can watch this podcast too on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. Guys, thank you. I really appreciate it. Thanks, Bill.

• 1:01:35Bill Simmons?

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