Dana White on UFC controversies, freedom of speech with Ryan Clark, the White House event, response about Michelle Obama, Conor McGregor, fixing boxing, health battles and digging out of the lowest points

“Judge me at the end of it all.” Dana White Dana White is back on The Pivot, and nothing is off limits. One of the most polarizing and realest conversations we've had ever.... From the biggest headlines surrounding the UFC to the future of boxing, Dana sits down for one of his most candid conversations yet. He addresses the recent controversies that have put him at the center of public debate, including the viral Michelle Obama comment, his appearance at the White House Correspondents' Dinner, and why he believes freedom of speech matters now more than ever. The conversation also dives into the historic UFC event planned at the White House, his vision for reshaping the boxing business, the latest on Conor McGregor, and what it takes to lead one of the biggest sports organizations in the world while navigating constant scrutiny. Beyond the business of fighting, Dana opens up about mental health, managing stress, personal growth, and the mindset that's helped him thrive through decades of pressure, criticism, and success. Raw, unfiltered, and packed with stories you've never heard before, this is Dana White as you've never seen him—only on The Pivot Podcast. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 0:30Ryan Clark?

  UFC CEO Dana White is back for round two on The Pivot. And this conversation doesn't pull any punches. From why he believes there'll never be another superstar like Conor McGregor, to his unfiltered reaction to the Shakur Stevenson jumbotron controversy. Dana opens up on everything that's making headlines. He addresses the historic White House fight card, and he responds to Josh Hockett's comments about former First Lady Michelle Obama. He also asked fans not to judge his foray into boxing until the end of the year. He explains why he's the kind of leader who runs towards the fire when everybody else is running away. And then there's this story that you've probably only heard a little about. Dana shares his most unforgettable White House

• 1:13Ryan Clark?

  Correspondents' Dinner moment, and it's a behind the scenes tale you don't want to miss. Trust me, it's as wild as you might think. No scripts, no filters, just Dana White. Back for round two on The Pivot with me, Freddie T and Chan.

• 1:49Dana White?

  I'm actually, I'm gonna try one of these pivots. What is this? Energy drink? Sure. How are you? You look like this man, nice and slim.

• 1:57Ryan Clark?

  Hey, we tuck our shirts around here, dawg.

• 1:59Dana White?

  Not that you ever look bad, but you look great.

• 2:01Ryan Clark?

  We tuck our shirts around me and Dana White.

• 2:03Channing Crowder?

  Y'all professionals, I'm not a shirt tucker.

• 2:05Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, me and Dana White, we tuck our shirts.

• 2:08Dana White?

  Oh, thank you. I'm a, I'm a yo-yo, so I fluctuate. Sometimes I tuck and sometimes I untuck.

• 2:16Fred Taylor?

  It's got all the good stuff in there.

• 2:18Dana White?

  Right.

• 2:19Fred Taylor?

  When, when did they drop those?

• 2:20Dana White?

  They didn't.

• 2:22Fred Taylor?

  You see that, R.C.? I'm looking at the Travis Scotts, I'm like, when they dropped those?

• 2:26Dana White?

  I always say I got more Travis Scotts than Travis Scott.

• 2:29Ryan Clark?

  You remember when we were in the closet, though? When we were at the spot, though? You know, he got everything. Dana, man, round two. You know what I mean? It's longer than five minutes, like in your sport, but the second time we get an opportunity to sit with you. Welcome back to The Pivot. This is Channing Crowder, Fred Taylor, and Ryan Clark. Pivot fam, thank you for pivoting with us. So recently, right? I see that you start to give out jobs on the night of the fight. Right, you can be a ring girl on the night of the fight, stuff like that. I want to apply for the job of being the person that can actually identify the celebrity before we put them on the screen.

• 3:00Dana White?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I would, you're hired. You're hired. Let me tell you what. We're having a whole overhaul going on right now in the production truck and how that works. And it's just, you know, I just feel like we've been so bad at this for so long and I've, and I've, I haven't, I haven't paid, like, all right, let's say, first of all, you know, when you have any type of celebrity and you go to a fucking show and they start putting you just like, man, I'm here, I just want to relax tonight and enjoy, and be a fan of something and enjoy. And then, you know, they're coming and putting a camera in your face. And one of the things that I think we, we are horrible at is like,

• 3:43Dana White?

  we'll show them on and they'll be like, hey, or fucking whatever. And then there's this like awkward 15 more seconds where we're staying on the fucking guy and the guy just sitting there. There's, there's an art to this and we haven't fucking figured it out yet. Then I pay all this fucking money for Shakur Stevenson. Bring him out, he's doing all this PR and shit. And we put him on, and we put him on as a fucking OKC basketball player. It's just like, you, I, I literally, I haven't been that mad or freaked out that bad in a very long time. And it's the second time it happened.

• 4:20Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, having a bud.

• 4:21Dana White?

  Yeah.

• 4:22Ryan Clark?

  And also too.

• 4:23Dana White?

  And two black guys. I, I think I need to throw a black guy in the truck or something. I don't know what the fuck's going on there, but we think, you know.

• 4:30Ryan Clark?

  No, no, they might identify him a little better.

• 4:32Dana White?

  Who's that again?

• 4:32Ryan Clark?

  The other problem is, though, Shakur is like 5'8". You know what I mean? To say that he's a world champion basketball player, that for sure ain't happening.

• 4:41Dana White?

  You're so right. Yeah, I freaked out that night, man. I haven't been that mad, especially of people, you know, that work for me in a very long time. And my production team is the best in the business, but we cannot figure out the celebrity thing.

• 4:57Channing Crowder?

  But Dana, we talked about the negative, but there's the positive to this as well. Since we talked to you last time.

• 5:04Dana White?

  You gotta figure out how to turn shit into Shinola sometimes, especially, especially in this business, right?

• 5:10Channing Crowder?

  How did you make the turn? You're setting worldwide views, records. 250 was off, was crazy. You're making billions of dollars on these shows. What are you doing? Because you're funny and charismatic and all that, but you gotta be good at something to do with what UFC's doing right now.

• 5:25Dana White?

  Well, after, after, you know, I went so in on it, it, you know, it, it got more attention than I was pissed off about it. Now people realize that it was Shakur Stevenson and not an OKC basketball player. But yeah, I don't know the answer to that question, but.

• 5:42Channing Crowder?

  You know something? Since last time you were on here to now, it has been a crazy jump, a crazy percentage jump, crazy views jump, crazy, what's it called? Interaction online, all that stuff. Like you see the numbers and stuff, and it's like, what the hell is he doing to make this sport what it is?

• 5:57Dana White?

  Well, thank you. And, and now we're, you know, we're getting into boxing and, and, you know, I keep telling the media, judge me. Judge me at the end of this year on what we do the first year in the boxing business. And we're six months in and, you know, we already have global distribution. We've signed, you know, some of the biggest guys in the sport, and we'll continue to sign the biggest and the best, and continue to put on the biggest and best fights in boxing.

• 6:22Fred Taylor?

  But that all started with TKO, the merger. You got UFC, the wrestling. Now, how do you pronounce it? Zuffa or something?

• 6:30Dana White?

  Yeah, Zuffa, yeah, yeah. Which means to fight in Italian, yeah.

• 6:33Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 6:34Channing Crowder?

  Oh, okay.

• 6:35Dana White?

  Every way that somebody can kick somebody else's ass, we're gonna, we're gonna be involved in.

• 6:41Fred Taylor?

  Right, so does all of that go over to Paramount? Was that all included in the big, what is it, seven year?

• 6:46Dana White?

  No, we did a different deal with Paramount for boxing, yeah.

• 6:49Fred Taylor?

  Got it.

• 6:49Dana White?

  Yeah, so every one of the, you know, the UFC has its own deal. Zuffa Boxing has its own deal. Power Slap has its own deal. And then we're also involved in PBR and, you know, lots of other. I got my hands on a lot of different stuff and all the deals are different.

• 7:05Fred Taylor?

  So as a.

• 7:05Dana White?

  And the Paramount deal is only in the U.S. So we still have deals around the rest of the world, too.

• 7:12Fred Taylor?

  But as a consumer, someone who chases the, in the old format, would chase the pay-per-view, we're saying 60 to 80 bucks per event. Now it just comes under my Paramount subscription.

• 7:25Dana White?

  Right.

• 7:25Fred Taylor?

  So I'll be the first to say thank you.

• 7:27Dana White?

  Well, thank you. What it would have cost you for, for one pay-per-view, now you could pay less than that for the entire year. So, and you get boxing. And when we were on ESPN Plus, they didn't have the entertainment value that Paramount Plus has. Now you, now you pay the monthly subscription and you get great movies, television shows, and, you know, you get a lot more bang for your buck.

• 7:51Ryan Clark?

  Man, you know, so we just had 329, UFC. Conor was back. It did crazy numbers for a fight that lasted 69 seconds. But it brings me to though, Dana, the ability to create a superstar. Right? When you think about Conor McGregor, what he was able to become in the UFC and essentially worldwide was revolutionary to the sport.

• 8:21Dana White?

  In the sports world. I mean, not just, not just the UFC, but in the sports world. And, you know, I look at, I look at a guy like him like a unicorn. People are always asking me, you know, who's the next Conor McGregor? There's never gonna be another Conor McGregor. And the time, and the place, and the way that he came into the, into the sport, there will be a different superstar, but there will never be another Conor.

• 8:45Ryan Clark?

  My question to you is this, though, Dana. When I fell in love with the UFC, you know, like, every time I see Chuck Liddell, I just tell him, I was like, man, your fight against Tito Ortiz is what, is what sold me on it. Right? And we were sitting outside of Houston, I told the story before. We were sitting outside of Houston and he was like, RC, like I, I wasn't hitting him hard with every one of them. And it's Chuck Liddell and he'd had a couple, and he's coming this close to my face with those big old fists. And I was like, Chuck, please don't punch me. Right, but that's why I fell in love with the sport. But we had George St. Pierre, we had Anderson Silva, you had John Jones. You had these dudes that held these belts for so long. We're seeing so much of this being flux now, whether it's heavyweight, light heavyweight, middleweight.

• 9:27Ryan Clark?

  How do you feel it's changed the sport to be so competitive at the top to where it used to be, we were all locked in to these champions for years in fight after fight?

• 9:41Dana White?

  We went through a, a point in time, I want to, maybe it was in 12, 13, 14, somewhere in there. And, you know, people were like, oh, this is bad. The titles keep changing hands and certain things. It's just, it is what it is. When you get a guy that comes in and dominates like, like John Jones, undefeated, never been beat in two different weight classes. It's special and it's unique. All that matters to me is that the best fight the best and that the fights are great. And the beautiful thing about fighting is you, you can't.

• 10:19Dana White?

  Reality is better than any script you could ever write. So we're on the lawn of the White House. And we have an American facing, you know, a guy from Spain. And he's a six to one underdog, the American. And everybody thinks he can't win. And he does. And an unbelievable fight in spectacular fashion. It's just, you know, that's all I care about. That's what matters for my business. So, you know, we talk about, like, I'm in the boxing business now, right? So you get out and you start selling tickets. You have to create a level of trust with the fan base. Where they know, like, I can put UFC tickets on sale. We'll sell out before they even know who the main event is. Because here's what they know.

• 11:04Dana White?

  We're gonna bring you a great card with a great main event. And if the main event falls out, I'll bring you a fight equally as good or even better. And once you start to build that trust and that relationship with the fan base, that's what matters. You have to put on great fights with the best fighters in the world. And that's really what matters at the end of the day.

• 11:29Ryan Clark?

  And that's the difference, though, between mixed martial arts and boxing. There's a fight on one of your cards where it may be two unknown guys and it could be the fight of the night. Right? Whereas in boxing, you're there the entire night for the main event.

• 11:46Dana White?

  Right.

• 11:47Ryan Clark?

  Right? There are times you know-

• 11:48Dana White?

  Most people don't even show up till the main event.

• 11:49Ryan Clark?

  Exactly. There are times like you're in the back enjoying the VIP libations until it's the final fight. Whereas, you know, my son, we've come to UFC, man, and we've been there at four o'clock. Right? Because we watch the undercard to the undercards before it even gets on TV.

• 12:05Dana White?

  And the other thing about our cards are, so you'll have a great co-main and main event that people are excited about. But a lot of times, there'll be fights in the middle that people are more excited about than the main event. So that definitely helps. And we stack the cards with great fights. And we promote the entire card because the entire card is good.

• 12:25Fred Taylor?

  First, I want to say my first UFC fight that I attended was Izzy at the Garden. And when I tell you, everybody that pulls up to the fight, they look like they can fight. Football games, like, you don't see that in the fans. But people that attend UFC fights look like they're ready to go at it. But John, he said, "You changed his life. You're forever his homie, no matter what." When you hear something like that, like, what does it do for you?

• 12:50Dana White?

  Yeah, and likewise, you know, me and John have our, you know, there's the business side and then there's the personal side. But even on the business side, I always respect John Jones. John Jones knows who he is and John Jones knows what he does. And, you know, there's no delusion there. I say, and I'll say again, he's the greatest of all time. And, you know, a lot of these fights that he went out and won, he wasn't being very good to himself leading up to those fights. And when you hear the stories come, it's like Michael Jordan, right? Now you start to hear the stories about Michael Jordan. But fuck, I love Michael Jordan, just for the record here. So if you didn't know that, like, Michael Jordan is like, to me. So you're hearing these stories about where they're at,

• 13:34Dana White?

  they're playing in the Olympics and they play 18 holes of golf. And the guys are all, "All right, let's get out of here." And he's like, "No, I'm gonna play another 18 holes of golf." And they're like, "What the fuck are you talking about?" Plays 18 more holes of golf, then he shows up and, I think Daley was the coach at this time. And they're like, "You're gonna cover him?" He's like, "No, I want to cover this guy." He used to talk shit in the paper, "But we saw him cover this guy," right? And you hear these stories about Michael Jordan now. I mean, when the John Jones stories start to come out, after he retires and he's gone and like, whatever. I mean, the stuff that this guy was doing and then coming out and beating the shit out of world-class guys who trained hard to try to beat him. John Jones is-

• 14:19Ryan Clark?

  He's the baddest man in the world without a weapon. If, in any fight with any person, if you tell me there's no weapons and it's him, I'm picking him. Like, you've just seen it too many times. But I've heard some of the stories about getting to be in the mixed martial arts world. It was basically just self-sabotage for that man. And he still found a way to come out on top. You talked about like how you respect John in business as well. And Chan was saying how you've grown the UFC so much since 2001, even since we last talked. Are there any negotiations for you, Dana, that with a fighter that you wish you had back? That you feel like you might have made a mistake with?

• 15:03Dana White?

  It's a good question. Off the top of my head, I can't. I feel like we've gotten everything done that we ever wanted to do in the fight. We never got a deal done with Fedor. But when we, when me and Lorenzo got on the plane and left wherever the hell we were, we looked at each other and said, "Thank God they said no." Yeah, because we offered him so much money. You know, you get in that room and you're just trying to get the deal done. Now, we didn't fly all the way the fuck out here for nothing. "Let's get this deal done." And we wanted to do it. We wanted to do him versus Brock Lesnar at the time, but nah, I don't regret it. And that's really the only fight off the top of my head that I can think of that we didn't make, that we wanted to and that we tried to.

• 15:46Channing Crowder?

  Dana, along that point, because you're talking about John Jones' personal business. Football-wise, you're a commodity. Blow your knee out, you know, break your neck, tear your shoulder up. You're not helpful to the team anymore. Do you get personal with guys where you, you know, it's not business anymore? It's more leaning towards friendship? And, but can you really separate it? Because if you're my boy, I'm not gonna let you go out there and kill yourself.

• 16:13Dana White?

  Yeah.

• 16:14Channing Crowder?

  But also, they want you to play.

• 16:16Dana White?

  Well, listen, man, I mean, I don't, I don't know if there's anybody we treated better than Anderson Silva. I mean, respected him so much for his talent and everything else. And the guy is, to his core, a fighter and a martial artist, you know? Fighting is what he loves. And he went on a losing streak. I don't know, seven of his last eight or something like that. We never cut his money. We never pulled his money back. He made shitloads of money. And then I said, "Time to retire." And he won't talk to me to this day. Fucking hates me because he says, "Who the fuck are you to tell me I can't do what I love to do?" You know, so, and I get it. It is what it is. And sometimes, you know, it's business, but sometimes it gets personal. Yeah.

• 17:01Ryan Clark?

  Dana, you've done a good job of empowering your athletes and your fighters to be themselves, right? You are very clear about how you feel about freedom of speech.

• 17:12Dana White?

  Yep.

• 17:13Ryan Clark?

  With Kobe, with Shawn recently, there's been some things. Obviously, Josh Hawke getting on the White House lawn. Has your outlook on freedom of speech started to evolve a little as it has affected some of like the biggest things you've done from a media and perception standpoint?

• 17:33Dana White?

  Well, unfortunately, when you talk about freedom of speech, it's usually the grossest stuff that has to be protected. It's like, it's, you can't talk about freedom of speech and then pick and choose what, you know? I don't love it all the time, but it is what it is. I mean, in this country, we do have it. And you see what starts to happen around the rest of the world in these places where people are being arrested for what they're posting on social media and stuff like that. And it's a slippery slope and, you know, we don't, we can talk like, "Oh, we want to be fucking all this shit." You don't want to head down that path. And you don't, we don't ever want to be there. But yeah, I don't love my stance on freedom of speech all the time.

• 18:16Dana White?

  But it has to be protected.

• 18:20Fred Taylor?

  You've sold out arenas, you know, all over the place. Vegas, New York, like, just everywhere. But the White House, that event. Just kind of take us through it all. Leading up to it, like, behind the scenes, something that you haven't shared that possibly could have got it all derailed. But just that moment itself, and not to politicize it, it doesn't matter which side of the fence you stand on. It's a great opportunity for sport, right? It has never been done before. So kind of take us through that whole-

• 18:48Dana White?

  The White House card?

• 18:48Fred Taylor?

  Yes, the White House card.

• 18:50Dana White?

  Listen, when the President of the United States leans over and says to you, "Hey, we should do a fight at the White House." Yes, yes, we should. I mean, I don't understand-

• 19:02Dana White?

  These teams that win and don't want to go to the White House, anybody to not want to go to the White House. It's not about politics. And you have these guys that'll be like, and it happened during the Biden administration. Biden is not my president. I got some bad news for you. If you're an American citizen, he is the President of the United States. He is your president and any president that. When I was at the inauguration for Trump and everybody knows, um, you know, how tight my relationship is with the president. He had me sitting behind all the ex-presidents. I was literally right behind them. And out of all the presidents that were there, and I saw it on, uh, and, and I didn't, I, I don't think the first time I ever talked about it, I think was, uh, on 60 Minutes.

• 19:46Dana White?

  When I did the 60 Minutes interview, they were like, look at Dana, he's mad dogging Obama and blah, blah, blah. No. President Obama turned around to me, only president that did, and said, hey, congratulations on all your success. And I said, thank you, Mr. President. Couldn't have been a nicer guy, couldn't have been classier. And, uh, you know, I, I respect the position of President of the United States, no matter who it is, whether I agree with, you're never going to agree with 100% of, of, of any president's politics or any of that shit. But this is the President of the United States. The majority of Americans in this country voted this person into office.

• 20:30Dana White?

  And they're going to be there for four years and, and they are the president and I respect that.

• 20:34Ryan Clark?

  Question I have then, if President Obama turns around and shows you that sort of grace, when Josh Hockett says what he says about Mrs. Obama on the White House lawn, right? A place where she represented our country in a, with grace, right? Like you said, regardless of politics, the way that those two humans conducted themselves while they were representing our country was something that we could be proud of, at least in my opinion. When he says that Dana, is there a way that Daniel or Joe or John can be like, hey, look, that doesn't represent what we all feel? Or even you afterwards, is there a way that you guys can come out and say, that's his freedom of speech?

• 21:15Ryan Clark?

  That's something that us at the, as the UFC, we totally disagree with.

• 21:20Dana White?

  Well, if you look leading into that show, you know, everybody was talking about, you know, you, you got the people that are always going to say, oh, this is a political, you know, this is a MAGA party. This is, you know, the president is throwing his own birthday party and all this bullshit. It's the 250th birthday of America. And, uh, to have the opportunity to be able to celebrate that at the White House, the way we did, and, and I said, leading up to that fight, if you're far left, if you're far right, if you're right down the middle, this show is for everybody that is an American. We're going to talk about the history of America and it's at the White House and all this stuff. And, and obviously, you know, Barack and Michelle Obama are public figures.

• 22:05Dana White?

  And when you're a public figure, I mean, you guys know, I'm sure you guys deal with your own level of bullshit and, and people talking. It's just, it's part of the gig. But what I don't like, first of all, former first lady of the United States, number one. Number two, a wife, a mother. It's just, I, it's, it's fucking gross. Right? Inappropriate, the timing of it and, and, and everything. But, and, and, and I think that people understand, you know, that is not, there's, there's people that you can't talk to and you can't change their mind and you can't whatever. Obviously not the opinion of the UFC and not my opinion or, or anybody else that fought on that card.

• 22:47Dana White?

  And, uh, it was, it was a really unfortunate thing to happen that night that, that just, when, when you hit this fucking grand slam home run and have a perfect event in every way that it could be.

• 23:03Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, it's one of those things.

• 23:04Dana White?

  You got a fucking moronic, you know, it's just, ugh. But, you know, other than that, it was a great fucking night.

• 23:14Speaker 06

  Here's your report.

• 23:15Speaker 07

  Oh, thanks, Jane. I wish I could hire someone just like you.

• 23:18Speaker 06

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• 23:34Speaker 07

  Let's do it. You're irreplaceable, Jane, but another you would be great.

• 23:38Speaker 06

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• 23:44Dana White?

  Yeah, what are you going to do?

• 23:45Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I was going to say, you look at the card from Diego to Justin Gagey, home run on fight selection, fight outcomes. Right? Everything you wanted to do with the pageantry of it. And then to have a moment like that on the lawn in a country or in a place where we've had so much keep politics out of sports, right? There were people who were just tuning in to watch that, who, like you said, whether they're far right, far left, down the middle, that sort of moronic, idiotic, flat out false lie.

• 24:25Dana White?

  But what I think, but what I think a lot, you know, when you talk about it, left and right, can both look at that. You can't tell me that everybody on the right went, yeah, she's a mad fucking. People were like, what an idiot. Anyway, I, I could.

• 24:41Ryan Clark?

  We'll move on.

• 24:42Dana White?

  I could go fucking mental on this show right now, but I won't. But it was just.

• 24:47Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, that's tough. It was tough for the whole, the whole event.

• 24:49Dana White?

  It was, it was just, you know, and I didn't even know it. I, I didn't hear it that night until after the event. I didn't know he had said it, like right when he said it there, I didn't know he had said it.

• 25:00Channing Crowder?

  We got, when did we go to the White House? Kansas City? Kansas City won, we got invited, the Chiefs were getting there, you know, and we went. It had to be different than Madison Square Garden because they checked me 100 times. The Secret Service done it, choked me to death because I'm joking around. How different was it to put on a, on a performance, put on a show in the White House?

• 25:22Dana White?

  Yeah, yeah. So the, so the level of security, and then, you know, you, you, you heard about the attack that was, you know, they arrested these guys that were planning, but there were like six of those. That was just the one that they went public with. There was, there was like six of those. And what I love about that, what I love about that is that you get these, these sick, deranged fucking lunatics, right? That will do something like this, but I'm glad they do it uh, uh, at an event like this that has that level of security, where we catch all these guys instead of doing it at an event with, with, you know, with less security and, and innocent people actually get hurt.

• 26:07Dana White?

  So I, I look at the positive in, in, in that. But yeah, the level of security getting in was crazy. When we got there, we all had to go through, you know, there were lines and we all had to go through crazy security. There were like three security checkpoints that you had to get through to get in, into the White House. Yeah. The Secret Service did an incredible job.

• 26:28Channing Crowder?

  I got a weak bladder, so I had to go to the bathroom. And I was like, hey, I'm going to run in this building, go to the bathroom. I ran in the building. It was the West Wing. And then when I came out the bathroom, it was about eight big ass dudes with black suits on. And I joke around with people. Hey, man, what, y'all want to see me? No smiles, no nothing. I was like, yeah, this is a different thing. Let me get back out here.

• 26:50Dana White?

  It's, it's very serious of the dude. I, I, I, the Correspondents Dinner. When I was at the Correspondents Dinner and the guy came in with the, with the gun and stuff, these guys kicked open these doors. They ripped the president and the vice president off stage. And they, I mean, big dudes. And they, they looked like they had like, like football pads on or something. They were all huge and they had their guns out. And they're screaming, everybody get on the fucking ground now. And they're kicking tables over and shit. And then, once they cleared the stage, those like eight guys with guns, with lights on them, just pointed at all of us out there. And I was like, holy shit. This is fucking crazy.

• 27:35Dana White?

  And then I'm thinking, then all the guys are coming across the room and they're coming toward our table. And I'm like, is this guy over here? Like, because we don't know what's going on. Is there a gunman? Is there a bomb? Is there a this? But when it was over, I was like, this is the fucking coolest thing that has ever happened to me. To be involved in something like this and nobody gets hurt and to experience what this is like, it was absolutely badass and unbelievable.

• 28:01Fred Taylor?

  Hey Dana, let's, let's pivot to, to boxing. You spent years, man, like telling boxing what was wrong, right? And, and now you signed two of the hottest young boxers in Connor, Ben and, and Shakur Stevenson. What's the first thing you fix?

• 28:18Dana White?

  Well, first of all is that, you know, the, the, the mindset with the fighters that the best are going to fight the best. And not just at the highest level, but on their way up too. So with the UFC, you know, you had to run, if you made it to the top five, you ran through the gauntlet of the baddest men or women in the world in your weight class. And in boxing, you'd have all these different sanctioning organizations and multiple champions. So you never really knew who the best was and you believe this guy didn't fight the, the, the competition that this guy? There's no questions when the guy, when, when the best fight the best on their way up. And like in the UFC, when you're truly undefeated.

• 29:00Dana White?

  It's special and it's something that John Jones is undefeated. Everybody's undefeated in boxing, you know what I mean? Like everybody's undefeated.

• 29:09Ryan Clark?

  Zero is important, yeah.

• 29:10Dana White?

  And that's all gonna change.

• 29:11Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 29:12Dana White?

  What I think it will do is, is, is get, I was actually shocked now that I'm in the business at how many young people don't know about boxing. Like when I first started, like the people that would come to the UFC, we had people getting tickets for Zuffa Boxing and they're like, wow, these fights are long, huh? Yeah, they're, they're 10 rounds or 12 rounds and they, they didn't know anything about it. It's funny, I, I was talking to a girl yesterday and she's like, oh, you're into boxing now too? That's the one where they wear the, the gloves, right? I was like, holy shit.

• 29:46Dana White?

  Yeah, they're the ones that wear the gloves.

• 29:48Ryan Clark?

  They probably follow RC, he be reposting power slaps. He's like, man, I don't know what provokes these people to get out there. They probably know more about power slaps like with this than...

• 29:58Dana White?

  Oh, 100%.

• 29:59Ryan Clark?

  Dana, the dude with the flat top and the...

• 30:01Dana White?

  Yeah, the thing in the back.

• 30:02Ryan Clark?

  The tail and the, the full man chew, he be putting people to sleep, dawg. Any man that got seven haircuts, you know he a bad man. Chan, when he slap folks, they go to sleep, dawg.

• 30:16Dana White?

  Absolutely true. It's so true. Do you, you know what, and, and power slap is fun and, and exciting because it's so unique in so many ways. So Ryan Garcia came to power slap, uh, last week in Vegas. I don't know if you saw the, the last show, but it was fucking incredible. And, and one of the guys got slapped and, and he's, he's out. But then he gets up and he beats the 10 count, right? How he got up and, and, and is, is unbelievable. So the place is going crazy. Now he gets the slap. He slaps and, and, and does it knock the guy out. Ryan Garcia goes, I'd say, congratulations, sir, you win. There's no way I would stand there and take the next slap. And what do you think happened?

• 31:00Ryan Clark?

  Have a good one.

• 31:02Dana White?

  He got knocked out and, and, uh, yeah, these guys are tough. They, they, you know, they have crazy personalities and it's a very unique sport. So in, on YouTube, we, power slap has the biggest sports short clip ever. And power slap is also the biggest clip ever on TikTok. Um, we, we, you know, the followers that we're, we're up to like 30 something million followers now in just two years. And, uh, I, I think by the end of this year, we should pass Major League Baseball in followers.

• 31:38Ryan Clark?

  Dana, you know, I don't know, I don't know how it is like at CEO level or, you know, the, you know, whether it's Adam Silver and, you know, Roger Goodell. I don't know if y'all have a group chat, right? All these leaders of these major sports that y'all holla at each other. I would have to think, man, when you get around like other CMOs or leaders of organizations, they think you're absolutely crazy, right? Covid, you was like, nah, we gonna fight. I'mma, I'mma do something at the White House that's, that's unheard of. Power slap, I'm getting into boxing now. What is it about your personality, bro, that just keeps making you say no? I'mma do, I'mma do things people are telling me that I shouldn't do and I'mma make it work.

• 32:20Dana White?

  Somewhere along the line, and this has been a narrative now for several years, we got soft and, and, and everybody started, uh, the Ukraine and Russian war. We're not doing anything with Russia. We're not gonna, I have Russians under contract. This is how they feed their family and this is how they provide. They don't determine whether they're going to war or not and all that shit. The world is an ugly, mean, bad place sometimes. And, and, and there's always gonna be bad things going on and somebody's always gonna be pointed at as the bad guy. You cannot let that affect your business, especially if you have a global business. Like I have fighters from all of, there isn't a place on earth that I don't have fighters

• 33:05Dana White?

  from. And I promise you, somebody's gonna be pissed off at one of these places, you know, it can be China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Israel, you know? That's always gonna exist. If you bow down and break to, to every little thing that's happening in the world, I, I don't know, it just, it just doesn't, and the Covid thing, Covid didn't make sense to me. So initially when it started, like I told my kids, this, this is crazy. I mean, we're gonna, people that we love and care about are probably gonna die from this thing. And then as it started to play out a little bit longer, I started to go, wait a minute, I can go into a restaurant, take my mask off and eat.

• 33:48Dana White?

  But then I gotta put my mask back on and, and, and every, it just, a lot of the things didn't start, start to add up as, as, as far as common sense went. And what pissed me off is when we, we're going into Covid, right? Covid's starting, we're putting the last screw in the apex. I just built my own arena. So I'm talking to the governor and I'm like, I can put on fights. I just need production guys. We can social distance. We can wear masks. All the fucking bullshit that they talked about during that point in time that when you look back now is fucking hilarious, right? Spraying the packages and all the shit that went on. And, and he's telling me, I can't do it. What do you mean, I can't do it?

• 34:30Dana White?

  I, I, you know, we, we, there's all these other things we can do, but I can't go put on this sporting event in my own arena next door if I do, if I follow all these rules. And he's like, yeah, no, you can't do it. I'm like, well, you know what? Fuck you.

• 34:47Dana White?

  I, uh, all I need, I, I'll, I'll go to a fucking deserted island somewhere. I gotta set up an octagon. I gotta have this, that, and, and, and, you know, that, that's how Fight Island was created. And, and our sport grew 77% during Covid.

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• 35:35Ryan Clark?

  Who, and to that point Dana, who do you consult with? Because you're...

• 35:39Dana White?

  I don't.

• 35:42Ryan Clark?

  You gotta ask somebody. I, I, I call them. I got therapists, you know, I got different people that I talk with. Who does Dana White look for when you're, I don't say confused, but just want a outside voice?

• 35:55Dana White?

  Well, my, my, here's the thing that, that we were looking at too. You know, I, we just had our service awards, um, which means our employees have been with us for a long time and, and we throw this, this party and we acknowledge them and, and thank them for everything they've done for the company. And we had it, uh, during the, the week of the Connor fight, International Fight Week. And, and the list of people on, on this 25, 20, 15 years, I mean, these people have been with me for a very long time. And once you get into like a big corporate structure, we're a public company and all

• 36:33Dana White?

  that shit, you know, sometimes, you know, decisions are made that I feel, you know, we talk about free speech and people might say some things that, that, that, you know, that suck and that, that you don't wanna hear and that are ugly and all these other things. But I think some of the things that happen in the corporate world are way worse. You know, you start, when, when, when something bad happens and, oh shit, we might lose money. Then you start looking at a, at a sheet of people who work for you and, and now you, you, you don't become a name or a human or whatever. It's just like, we have to cut costs and we, it's just, I don't, that is just, that's

• 37:16Dana White?

  when I say, no, this is, this, we, we need to fucking step up and we, we need to take care of our people. The scariest time in our lifetime happens and we're, we're gonna have to lay people off. Hey, everybody, good luck. I hope this works out for you and your family. See, I, I went the exact opposite direction. I'm the run into the fire guy. I'm not, listen, I got a really nice fucking house, right? And I've done well in life. If, if hiding in my house is, is, you know...

• 37:52Dana White?

  I could have done that forever. Could have hid in my house. Yeah, let's lay off all these guys and let's do the... No, no, no, no. We're not laying anybody off. We're gonna figure this out. We're gonna take care of our team. And that's why when it's time to run into the fire, my fucking team runs with me.

• 38:06Ryan Clark?

  You'd have been in the big house, they'd have had no house. And that's how you develop a loyalty too, of your people that work with you.

• 38:12Dana White?

  Yeah. Well, me and my team, were never closer than we were when we came out of COVID. And, and, you know, I did weekly calls with my team and said, hey, listen, enjoy this time. This is a very unique time in our lifetime. Enjoy your family, relax, everything's gonna be okay and we'll figure this stuff out. You need groceries, let me know. This sounds stupid now, but this is how ridiculous it was. If you need toilet paper, call me, we'll get it all figured out. I had all that shit dialed in. And if anybody in your family gets sick, make me your first call and we'll fucking take care of you. You know this, everybody knows this. We don't know who's who in our lives

• 38:56Dana White?

  till the shit hits the fan. Right? Who are you? Really? You can talk a bunch of shit and you can say whatever. Who are you? You find out who everybody is when, when hard times hit.

• 39:07Fred Taylor?

  Originally, I wanted to ask you to try the pivot, but you did that coming in the room. But I got another favor. Chris Johnson, great friend of all of ours. He's going through everything with ALS. So I wanna ask, or I wanna nominate you to do the ice bucket challenge. RC has on a Chris Johnson t-shirt here representing Chris. I just saw a notification where the Titans just inducted Chris into their Ring of Honor, which should have been done a long time ago. One of the best running backs to ever play a game. So on behalf of the pivot, I wanna nominate you to do the ice bucket challenge. So you know, pop out the abs and all that different stuff.

• 39:44Dana White?

  But how does that work again? It's been a long time.

• 39:47Fred Taylor?

  Somebody to pour ice on you.

• 39:48Dana White?

  Pour the bucket on him and then what?

• 39:50Ryan Clark?

  But then you'd have to nominate somebody else, right?

• 39:52Dana White?

  But how does that help? What does it do?

• 39:54Ryan Clark?

  They raise money. You can, you do it and then people can donate.

• 39:57Dana White?

  How about if I just donate?

• 39:58Ryan Clark?

  We like that too.

• 40:01Dana White?

  So here's what I will do for you. So I will personally donate. The UFC will donate.

• 40:07Ryan Clark?

  Oh, that's big.

• 40:08Dana White?

  And we'll figure something out with my, with my, with my charity department, where we, we raise some money for this and, and, I'll actually do some real shit.

• 40:19Ryan Clark?

  No, that's amazing.

• 40:19Fred Taylor?

  That's huge, man.

• 40:20Dana White?

  Done.

• 40:21Fred Taylor?

  Thank you so much.

• 40:22Dana White?

  That's a pleasure.

• 40:22Fred Taylor?

  Thank you so much.

• 40:23Ryan Clark?

  Dana, you, um, you had a statement about mental health a while ago that people criticized.

• 40:28Dana White?

  Yeah.

• 40:29Ryan Clark?

  Right? Recently, I'm, I'm from Louisiana. I'm a huge Dustin Poirier fan. He talked about his troubles with the transition out of fighting. We actually, I actually texted him afterwards just to tap in with him, see how he was doing. For something like that, is there a way that the UFC or yourself can help fighters like Dustin transition out?

• 40:51Dana White?

  We do. We do.

• 40:52Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 40:53Dana White?

  We, we, we do a shit ton of charity, you know? Not just the UFC, but me personally too. It's just, I'm, I'm not... I do it because I should do it. And I do it because, you know, it's the right thing to do. But you're never gonna see me like, standing in the middle of court with a big check like, hey, you know? We do it because, I'll tell you, I'll tell you one of the greatest stories ever, man. So Forrest Griffin comes off the, um, the Ultimate Fighter. And he becomes a star for us and, and, uh, you know, starts selling pay-per-views and all that stuff. We do a lot of local charity for Vegas and then, you know, all these different cities that we travel around, you know? We do stuff.

• 41:37Dana White?

  Well, I do a lot of stuff in New York too, with the police here. But we go to this, this charity called Three Square in Las Vegas. And, and it's funny, you don't realize how fucking ugly the world is until you start going and realizing all these different charities that exist. So kids, like kids in, in, in middle school and younger and older, go home on Friday after school and don't eat again till Monday. Cause they only eat at school because their parents aren't home. They're drug addicts, they don't have money for food or whatever the story might be. And I'm like, holy shit. This, this, this is terrible. So we, we tour the whole thing and, you know,

• 42:22Dana White?

  we're in, we're gonna help. And they're like, do you know Forrest Griffin? Like, do we know Forrest Griffin? Yeah, we know Forrest Griffin, he's, he's our guy. Well, we didn't know him. So he would come here every day and work for hours, packing food and making, you know, all this stuff. And then every day when he would leave, he would write a check. And we're like, no shit. And they're like, yeah. And then we ended up finding out like, he's a UFC fighter. We didn't even know who he was. He would go there every day. No, not looking for any credit, not fucking taking selfies and posting shit and all this stuff. And, uh, you know, and then, you know, he went on to have a great career. And then I hired him and he works for the UFC. He's an executive at the UFC now.

• 43:03Dana White?

  But, you know, that's, that's the type of charity that I like.

• 43:09Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I got to meet him at the Apex, actually, when I went to the Ultimate Fighter. Couldn't have been a more awesome human. Like just a, just a good dude. And obviously anybody who loves the sport knows that his fight with Stefan Bana was one of the fights that...

• 43:23Dana White?

  Well, it's the reason I'm sitting here talking to you right now.

• 43:24Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, it's one of the fights that propelled the UFC to what it was. So it's awesome that, you know, you continue to keep him around. I, I don't, and I don't know if this story is true Dana, but I do wanna ask you. I got to meet Gary Brekka. I met him in France, right? We're having all these conversations. We're talking about getting my blood work to him.

• 43:39Dana White?

  And you look great. Not that you never, didn't look great, but you look great.

• 43:46Ryan Clark?

  I was fat, no, I'm sorry.

• 43:48Dana White?

  So I just saw him yesterday at the CNBC thing. And I said, damn, you look lean, man. And he's like, I'm with Gary Brekka now. But go ahead, yeah.

• 43:55Ryan Clark?

  So he said that he doesn't believe if, if you don't change, meet him, start doing some things to change your life. He says he doesn't think that you're still alive.

• 44:06Dana White?

  Yeah.

• 44:06Ryan Clark?

  Right now. How true, how true is that?

• 44:08Dana White?

  Yeah, I agree with that. So he, you know, he, he can, he has this thing. I heard about him. I didn't even wanna meet him. I'm like, I'm not into this goofy hippie shit. I, I was a believer in modern medicine, right?

• 44:24Dana White?

  So, so remember Casey Kasem's Top 40? So me and his daughter have been really good friends for years. Her name's Carrie Kasem. And she is a hippie. And, and, and into all this holistic stuff and, and, she's like, I'm telling you Dana, I have to make this introduction to Gary Brekka. He does this, he does that and all this shit. I didn't wanna meet him. I'm like, I'm good. Uh, I got great doctors and, and whatever. And I did have a ton of, of health problems at the time. And one of them was I had sleep apnea so bad that I would throw up every night. Every night. And because of that, I, I would like start losing my voice and it was, I wake up and I couldn't breathe and the list goes on and on.

• 45:08Dana White?

  The laundry list of shit that I had going on. So then, uh, I, I, I heard that he could predict how long you would live. And now that I was into. I was like, all right, this I wanna know. This is fascinating. And, uh, it was my son's 21st birthday and we went down to Miami and, and we, we hired Gary and his team to do the IVs. You know, gonna be down there fucking drinking and shit. So we hire him for the IVs and he says, can I do your blood work since we got all this? I said, sure. So he, uh, he takes my blood and then I'm, I'm like, how long is it gonna take for you to tell me how long I'm gonna live? And he's like, I'll take whenever the... So he starts calling me and saying, hey, I wanna come to Las Vegas and meet with you and go through the...

• 45:52Dana White?

  I said, no, just tell me on the phone. Long story short, he gets in my office, right? Now, if you go see a doctor, like, and, and you got some problems, right? And, and you've been working, you know, your family doctor for 10 years and you're gonna switch doctors. The old doctor sends the new doctor all your paperwork, right? This guy knows nothing about you. He takes your blood and he did a gene test on me. He came in my office and told me every fucking thing that was wrong with me. And I was like, god damn. I said, all right, man. From my blood work. He told me what was wrong with me. I didn't tell him shit. I didn't, I didn't even wanna meet the guy.

• 46:37Dana White?

  And, uh, and then we're, we're coming out of COVID, right? Which if COVID didn't show you that the medical world is full of shit, there's no helping you, okay? You, you can't be saved. And, um, so I, I start working with this guy. He says, you do what I tell you to do for 10 weeks and I'll change your whole life. It didn't take 10 weeks, it took six weeks. In six weeks, all the shit that was wrong with me started to get better. And then my sleep apnea, you know? And, and I speak so highly of Gary Brekka publicly. You know, you have these guys online that are whatever. And I, I just wanna make this clear. I don't give a shit if you use Gary Brekka or don't. Stick with your doctor. Slap that, uh,

• 47:22Dana White?

  CPAP mask on your big fat face. Try to sleep. Good luck to you all. I wish you all the best.

• 47:28Ryan Clark?

  How long did he tell you had to live, Dee?

• 47:30Dana White?

  Huh?

• 47:30Ryan Clark?

  How long did he tell you?

• 47:31Dana White?

  No sleep apnea. My legs were all messed, all, all, all my stuff is perfect. Now, I had two of the best doctors, you know, in my area, you know, meaning LA and Vegas. And when, when they first heard I was doing this, they're like, Dana, what are you doing? I said, listen, 10 weeks, the guy, both my fucking doctors work with Gary Brekka now. Both of them.

• 47:54Channing Crowder?

  At what point did you start taking your shirt off? Cause he had a lot.

• 47:59Dana White?

  Seven weeks.

• 47:59Channing Crowder?

  Seven. He just started seeing you half naked. I'm like, damn Dana.

• 48:04Dana White?

  Well, here's the thing. You gotta think, at, at, at 54, I was in the best shape I'd ever been in in my life, even, even when I was 21, 22 years old, you know? And you know, and, and I mean, and, and a laundry list of celebrities that Gary Brekka works with and, you know, I'm not gonna put anybody else's shit out there. That's, that's up to them. But I mean, some of these big stars and celebrities that you see, you know, guys that are jacked and whatever, they're all working with Gary. Gary had to go in and fine tune and fix, fix a lot of stuff. This guy is my 84-year-old mother-in-law.

• 48:43Dana White?

  Beat cancer three times with Gary Brekka.

• 48:46Ryan Clark?

  Wow.

• 48:47Dana White?

  And just within the last three weeks, again, 84 years old, and then, you know, you take the blood work and they're like, oh, the cancer's coming back as all these cells. Gary will work with her. She'll go back to the doctors and all the cancer's gone. And they're like, well, that's not why. It's unexplainable why this happened, but I know why.

• 49:10Ryan Clark?

  You get into boxing, you know, our boy Floyd had been on three, four times. That's our homeboy. You gonna help him out or talk with him?

• 49:18Dana White?

  Me and Floyd have known each other, you know, for 30 years, you know? And I like Floyd and we have a very unique relationship. But yeah, I can definitely, absolutely, positively help Floyd. And he knows that, so if and when Floyd's ready, Floyd. All he's gotta do is pick up the phone.

• 49:44Ryan Clark?

  Nah, I love that, man. Honestly, man, you know, it's always the scary thing when you sit with somebody in this sort of long form twice. You know, because you're like, okay, what are we gonna talk about? Your life is ever evolving, man. You continuing to do great things. And so we appreciate this conversation. It was even better than the first, man.

• 50:01Dana White?

  Nah, it's a pleasure. Congrats on your success, boys. I'm happy for you.

• 50:04Ryan Clark?

  Appreciate you, bro.

• 50:04Dana White?

  Yeah.

• 50:05Ryan Clark?

  Yes, sir. That was good, bro. Appreciate you, bro.

• 50:09Channing Crowder?

  Appreciate you.

• 50:09Ryan Clark?

  Bro.

• 50:10Channing Crowder?

  Congrats on your damn success.

• 50:12Dana White?

  You're a modern medicine guy, too.

• 50:15Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, he don't do nothing bad.

• 50:17Dana White?

  He is something.