#1337 Cathie Wood | Bitcoin Could Reach $1.5 Million

Cathie Wood is the Founder & CEO of Ark Invest. This conversation was recorded at Bitcoin Investor Day in New York. In this conversation, Cathie talks about why she is so bullish on bitcoin, ETFs, macro factors, price target of $1.5 million, areas in the industry she is excited about, and more. ======================= Introducing Espresso - the world’s most interactive portable display. They have a portable screen that is incredibly light, comes with a nice stand, and the user interface is very easy. Anyone who listens to this podcast can go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠us.espres.so/pomp⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. They have a brand new offer waiting for you. ======================= BetOnline.ag is a proud sponsor of the the Pomp Podcast. Use crypto to bet on sports, play poker and enjoy casino games at BetOnline. Visit https://promotions.betonline.ag/pomp and use promo code POMP100 to receive a 100% matching bonus on any crypto deposit. BetOnline boasts no crypto transaction fees, and processing is anonymous, instantaneous and secure. ======================= Pomp writes a daily letter to over 265,000+ investors about business, technology, and finance. He breaks down complex topics into easy-to-understand language while sharing opinions on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at https://pomp.substack.com/ ======================= View 10k+ open startup jobs: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://dreamstartupjob.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Enroll in my Crypto Academy: https://www.thecryptoacademy.io/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Many of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, which is my effort to find the most interesting people in the world and sit with them for hours while I ask questions in an effort to learn. So it would mean the world to me if you would subscribe to the show on your favorite audio platform, watch episodes on YouTube, and tell your friends and family about the podcast. My goal is to help millions learn from the world's most interesting people. So let's get into today's episode. Today's conversation is with Kathy Wood. She is the founder and CEO at Ark Invest. In this conversation Kathy lays out why she's so bullish on Bitcoin. She gives a price target of $1.5 million. And on top of that, she also goes through areas in the industry

• 0:46Anthony Pompliano?

  that she's super excited about: L2s, Lightning, sidechains, and much, much more. I always enjoy talking to Kathy because her mind only thinks about innovation. She's constantly trying to understand what's around the corner or what is on the horizon. Bitcoin is something that she has been right about for a very long time, and her thoughts about where we are headed are quite exciting. Here is my conversation with Kathy Wood.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 1:34Anthony Pompliano?

  Today's episode is brought to you by Espresso, the maker of the world's thinnest portable display. Now, listen up. If you're like me, you feel like you are at a command center when you sit down at your desk. I got a gazillion tabs open and different windows for different activities. There's my web browser, my text messages, I have Slack open, and I got a Notes app. I normally work on a desktop and can be very, very productive. But everything falls apart the second I leave my desk. If I'm traveling, if I go to a coffee shop to do some work, or just want to work from the kitchen table, my laptop doesn't have enough screen space. I lose my command center and my productivity falls off a cliff. It's a major problem. But this is where Espresso comes in. They have a portable screen that is so beautiful that you think Steve Jobs came back from the dead to create it.

• 2:17Anthony Pompliano?

  The thing is incredibly light, it comes with a nice stand, and the user interface is so easy that I figured it out, how to do it in less than three minutes. If you listen to this podcast, you know that's not an easy feat. So the Espresso team and I, we became friends. I got to know them because I really liked the product. And those screens, they now want to offer them to any fan of the podcast. So we struck a little deal. Here's how it works. Anyone who listens to this podcast can go to us.espress.s Or if that's too confusing, just go click the link in the description. If you go to Espresso's website, they've got a brand new offer there sitting for you. You get a little discount and you'll get a beautiful screen. Trust me, I use mine every day.

• 3:00Anthony Pompliano?

  You'll love the Espresso screen and I think it'll make you more productive. Go check them out today by clicking on the link in the description. This episode is brought to you by BetOnline. Do you like making a profit from sports betting? Well, set yourself up to take home the most profit possible using crypto to fund your sports betting, casino, and poker account at betonline.ag. You can avoid costly transaction fees, get your payouts lightning fast, and do it all securely and anonymously with the highest deposit and withdrawal limits in the industry. If you want to get in on the action, do it the smart way with crypto at betonline.ag. Head to the website, sign up with promo code POMP100 to get 100% bonus on your crypto deposit today.

• 3:42Anthony Pompliano?

  If you go and you deposit, they'll give you 100% bonus if you use promo code POMP100. BetOnline, the game starts here. BetOnline.ag, go check them out today. Our next guest today is Kathy Wood.

• 4:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Kathy unfortunately could not join us in person, so she's joining us remotely. Kathy is the founder and CEO of Arc Invest. Kathy, can you hear and/or see us?

• 4:15Speaker 02

  I can hear you, can you hear me?

• 4:16Anthony Pompliano?

  Amazing, there we go, all right. Dramatic entrance. Let's start the conversation with your current assessment of the Bitcoin ETFs. You guys were the first fund, I believe, on Wall Street to buy into the grayscale GBTC fund, but now we have ETFs, and so how do you think it's going?

• 4:41Speaker 02

  Well, I think by all accounts it's going very well. In the aggregate, we're thrilled with our positioning, and actually somewhat humbled, I must say. So I think we're number three, if you take out grayscale, so I'm very happy with that, very happy with the reception. And, you know, I think the interesting thing that happened, when you have 11 ETFs approved at the same time, that's never happened before, the amount of energy and research communication

• 5:19Speaker 02

  that has gone out around this spot Bitcoin ETF opportunity, you know, has been unmatched. And I think it's done a great service for Bitcoin and digital assets generally, because this is just the beginning of a completely new asset class.

• 5:41Anthony Pompliano?

  Now, one of the reasons that people are excited is because Bitcoin's price is going up. Some of that is because there's a lot of people going into the Bitcoin ETF, since the demand is outstripping supply. But there's also a number of other macro factors. There's questions around interest rates, around inflation, about a potential recession incoming. How do you evaluate Bitcoin in light of these potential questions? And also, why are people buying the ETFs? Is it just the ETF alone, or are there macro factors that are driving them to buy it?

• 6:12Speaker 02

  Well, as I just mentioned, I think there's been a lot of communication about what Bitcoin actually is in this new asset class, leading the charge. I know that our research team, I know Yasin is there with you, has done an amazing job, not only in the last six months or year, but we've had research extending back to 2014 and our first white paper in 2015, when we took our first exposure. And so we've been singing the praises of Bitcoin for a long time as a new asset class. So that's a start.

• 6:56Speaker 02

  But I do think there are some macro factors. I know Mike mentioned this earlier. We're very focused on what's going on in the emerging markets right now. I think with time, many more people will understand that the Fed, with the 24-fold increase in interest rates over little more than a year's time, has absolutely shocked the financial system around the world. Now, many people are looking at very short-term, lagging economic indicators here in the United States, primarily because the Fed is doing that.

• 7:36Speaker 02

  But if you look at other signals out there, there are signals that not all is well in the world. I know Mike mentioned the Naira, the Nigerian Naira, which has devalued by two-thirds since last June. Now, Nigeria is one of the wealthiest countries, oil-rich, in Africa. And with a new administration that's become very business-friendly, I think they thought they could let the currency float and they found out, you know, that it has been very painful from a purchasing power point of view and from a wealth point of view.

• 8:21Speaker 02

  We've seen the same in Egypt, that the Egyptian devaluation was forty percent at the beginning of March. So I think, I think that there's a bit of a risk off reason for owning Bitcoin emanating from the emerging markets. We've seen in Argentina with the new administration there. I, I think the, the currency, I mean, they made official what the black market already knew, that the currency was worth half of what it was reported at Lee Worth. So I think we're getting those warning signals.

• 9:02Speaker 02

  I also think, you know, yesterday we got the Swiss bank cutting rates, which was a big surprise, the UK turning a little more dovish, the Fed now a little more dovish. Why? What are they seeing out there? And so many people think of Bitcoin as a risk on asset, and it certainly has traded like that over time. But we have been looking at it as both risk on and risk off. And I can tell you, when we first, when we first learned that in two thousand and fifteen, when we took our first position in Bitcoin via GBTC, Bitcoin was about two hundred and fifty dollars.

• 9:48Speaker 02

  And many people were making fun of us at the time, thinking, oh, they're, they're new. We had just started our funds in October of fourteen. Oh, they're new, they're just trying to gain attention, this is a marketing gimmick. And so we were really on the spot. First of all, we had done a lot of research, we didn't think, we thought there was real investment merit. But we were watching like a hawk its moves. And back then, Greece was threatening to leave the European Union. And every time there was a flare up, you know, and, and a fear of another European sovereign debt crisis, Bitcoin inched up. And so we've been looking at it as both a risk on and a risk off asset for.

• 10:31Speaker 02

  Quite some time and the regional bank crisis last year uh kind of uh confirmed uh that point of view that here Bitcoin um more than doubled, I think more than doubled as regional banks were imploding. So uh I think many people are beginning to say as they learn what this is, wow, could it be both a risk on and a risk off asset? We think so.

• 10:58Anthony Pompliano?

  Now, one of the interesting things is uh individuals and maybe family offices have been really excited about Bitcoin being outside of the system, kind of this alarm system that you're talking about with issues within the traditional financial system or the banking system. But what happens if Wall Street becomes a bigger player within Bitcoin? It's kind of pulling Bitcoin into the system to some degree. And so does that change the evaluation you have of the asset? Or how you think the industry actually develops in the coming years?

• 11:28Speaker 02

  Well, it's certainly going to be adding more liquidity. That's good for price discovery. Um I think it's legitimizing this new asset class. Uh so that's a very good thing. I think bringing in a new class of investor is important. And you know, one of the reasons that we wanted to do a Bitcoin uh ETF even or spot Bitcoin ETF even after um we just we decided that it would probably be very low fee, given the way the competition was going to evolve, was you know, we're looking at uh Bitcoin

• 12:07Speaker 02

  as you know, the technology as well. It is, you know, a financial superhighway, a public good. Uh and so we think uh educating and offering access to as many people as possible uh in a less friction filled way. I mean, many people just didn't want to deal with, you know, uh wallets and so forth, is uh is is going to in hindsight uh and when history is written, I think is going to become a very important moment in time.

• 12:42Anthony Pompliano?

  Now, you mentioned that a lot more liquidity will lead to or help in price discovery. There's a school of thought that as these large pools of capital come in and the asset gets larger, volatility will dampen and returns will actually go down. How do you think about the asymmetric return profile of Bitcoin historically and will that continue in the future or does that change now that there's new players and larger pools of capital?

• 13:07Speaker 02

  Well, asymmetric, I mean, there aren't many assets out there that I think can claim that they're both risk on and risk off. So for that reason, we think that the return profile is going to be certainly relative to anything else out there. You know, Yasin and team have done the returns to Bitcoin. I think this, yes, is over the life of Bitcoin or I forget exactly, he'll tell you, the period of time that we did, we put in our big ideas 2024. And if you look at Bitcoin's compound annual rate of return, it's 44% over that time versus,

• 13:52Speaker 02

  I think it's 4.5% for all other assets combined. So we think that superior returns are going to be there. This is the beginning, this is just the beginning of this new asset class. Yes, and the volatility is coming down. As we look at, are we going to have the same returns from peak to trough going forward? Perhaps not, but we've come a long way and we still think we have miles to go.

• 14:22Anthony Pompliano?

  Are you all doing anything different since you first bought or has it pretty much been Bitcoin is good, ARK is buying, holding, and that's the strategy when it comes to Bitcoin specifically?

• 14:34Speaker 02

  Well, since we first, we were looking for exposure very early on and the first exposure we could find was GBTC, but then as time went on, of course, public companies became available with some exposure to Bitcoin. Coinbase, actually, we had done our first, no, our second white paper with Coinbase, when I think it was either doing it Series A or doing it Series B. So, you know, we were casting far and wide for exposure to Bitcoin and we didn't have a private fund at the time like we do now.

• 15:15Speaker 02

  So Coinbase is now, obviously, a big part of our portfolio, Square as well, Robinhood. So we're looking for the companies that could potentially have that digital wallet that is probably going to become a winner-take-most opportunity. And so you've got Coinbase coming at it from the crypto angle, you've got Robinhood coming at it from, well, starting with equities and options, and Square with Cash App. So, yes, we're doing that.

• 15:57Speaker 02

  We also have launched some futures funds, I think that's pretty well-known, three of which are actively managed. So one is Bitcoin Cash, one is Bitcoin ETH, and these are all futures. And then one is Bitcoin and all of these digital wallet opportunities potentially. And then we also have private funds, a cryptocurrency fund, a crypto revolutions fund, which will, you know, which will take us far beyond Bitcoin. So we're doing a lot and getting more and more excited about it. And we now have four, four people, including

• 16:43Speaker 02

  Yasin focused on this space. And one of them, I might add, is David Puel. Many of you may know him if you are into on-chain analytics. Some of them are named after him because he created them. We hired him because we can tell a lot about the market. We do a Bitcoin monthly piece examining the health of the network and where we are in the bull or the bear market, what phase we're in. We believe we're kind of in mid-phase right now based on on-chain analytics. And on-chain analytics also help us with our trading strategies in active management.

• 17:28Anthony Pompliano?

  You mentioned Coinbase. What's the investment thesis for a company that obviously is the most kind of regulated, well-known brand in the United States? But why buy the stock here? And what do you think the future holds for them?

• 17:41Speaker 02

  Well, we were buying it when regulators were torpedoing it, or attempting to at least. We post our trades every day. And I think many people were very surprised to see us buying when Coinbase got the Wells notice and the stock price went down 20 or 30%. And then again, when the SEC sued them. Coinbase is the most regulatory compliant exchange in the world. Some of its competitors have gone out of business. FTX, of course, being an important one. Binance has had its share of issues as well. CZ having to step aside and the fines and so forth.

• 18:27Speaker 02

  And Coinbase is now going international, very importantly. And I think as the trusted company that it is here in the United States, I think it will catch hold in the rest of the world. We're seeing it with an offshore derivatives exchange, which has taken off and is doing, I think, a lot better than a lot of. Other people expected and then we've got base, you know, they've got an underlying protocol which is generating organic demand with millions and millions of people already on it. Compared to and and you know, it doesn't have its own token like FTT or BNB.

• 19:11Speaker 02

  It's truly organic demand. So I think it's got a lot going for it. And again, you know, it's a great way to capitalize on a new asset class that that is going to create a new class of asset managers. We're all going to become power users as as we participate in this ecosystem. We're not going to be, you know, as much the, I mean, we call ourselves an active manager, but as you say, we, you know, buy and hold a stock if we really like it. We'll get to do a lot more in this ecosystem as as an asset manager.

• 19:50Speaker 02

  So that's pretty exciting as well. And Yasin and his team are really gearing up gearing us up nicely for that.

• 19:58Anthony Pompliano?

  When you look at Coinbase, do you feel like it could compete with the banks in terms of, you know, taking 100% or a very large portion of wallet share? Or is it something that's more akin to competing with the PayPal's and kind of payments? Or maybe it's something that would be competing more with like a Charles Schwab and like an investment account? Like where does it kind of slot in from a competitive standpoint with the legacy players?

• 20:24Speaker 02

  Well, I think I think all of the above, right? And and we'll see over time where where where it has the most success and where it chooses to to focus.

• 20:37Speaker 02

  But we think it's a very big idea. That's why we own it. It's the top stock in our in our flagship strategy, even bigger than Tesla now. And you know how positive we are on Tesla.

• 20:51Anthony Pompliano?

  Now Tesla went up a lot. People are very excited. People are expecting Bitcoin to go up a lot. They're excited before it's even happened. But one of the big questions is, will the four-year cycle persist? We obviously broke a number of rules, including we went below the previous all-time high. We're now at an all-time high before the halving. How are you thinking about four-year cycles and/or big drawdowns now that these new players are in the market?

• 21:19Speaker 02

  So you're asking me, do we have a lot of weak holders? And is this going to disturb the cycle after the halving? Is that the nature of the question?

• 21:30Anthony Pompliano?

  We can call them weak holders. I like that better.

• 21:35Speaker 02

  And, you know, we're trying to educate the new holders. But by definition, you know, they haven't been doing this as long as we have. And so innately, they are not going to have the confidence that we have that this is a new technology, a new asset class, a new monetary system. Three very big, each a big idea unto itself. So as far as the halving, I think what we're trying to do in terms of education as we have this new investor base is say, you know what?

• 22:13Speaker 02

  For the first time, the supply growth of Bitcoin, as it drops from 1.9% per year to roughly 0.9% per year come April, it's hitting an important milestone. The supply of gold has been growing very long term, on average, 1%. So now, I mean, it's just marginally, but it is below the supply growth of gold.

• 22:54Speaker 02

  So we're trying to use that to help people understand a lot of the reason that gold became such a successful asset class is because the supply growth was fairly controlled, especially relative to money growth out there in various regimes, including our own. And so I think, I don't see any reason why the halving won't be, won't cause the same dynamic that it It has in in the previous cycles, especially as we're going out there with that message.

• 23:34Speaker 02

  Um, it doesn't happen right away, April and boom, uh, and it it usually doesn't happen that way. So maybe they'll develop some impatience, but um, uh, we think that it um, it emphasizes one of the core features of Bitcoin and the reason it is uh, a, a, a risk off asset as well as a risk on asset.

• 23:57Anthony Pompliano?

  How are you all thinking about the Lightning Network, um, some of the layer twos or some of the side chains? Things that are being built on top of Bitcoin?

• 24:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, um, well, it's interesting to watch some of the, uh, the layer twos. Optimism, Arbitrum, uh, maybe taking some share here. Um, I think that the Lightning, uh, network demands too much collateral. And so, uh, you know, this is a very, uh, creative and, uh, uh, a, a, a creative community and they try and find workarounds and, and those seem to be finding some success. Uh, so, but you know, one of the things that in, in terms of the Lightning Network that's been fascinating. Um, actually, this was on one of our Bitcoin brainstorms. We do a Bitcoin brainstorm every month.

• 24:50Speaker 02

  Uh, I think we've done it for seven months now, Yasin, uh, and, uh, and the team with Bitcoin Park. I don't know if you know Rod Ruby from Bitcoin Park, but we do this once a month. And, uh, the, the second one we did was just mind blowing to me. Uh, I was wearing my economics hat, the emerging markets, I understand about those as well. But there's a convergence between artificial intelligence and, uh, uh, Bitcoin and the Bitcoin network that's taking place now. And it's taking place in the emerging markets.

• 25:29Speaker 02

  We had, for those of you who know the, uh, the, the people involved in, in the, uh, Lightning Network. Um, his name is. Roast beef, he's one of the developers and he was telling us in Africa, what he was witnessing was, you know, a completely new division of labor. We've gotten used to gig economy, that concept here in the United States with Uber and Airbnb and other things.

• 26:03Speaker 02

  But you can turbocharge that into micro, the micro gig economy and AI agents using the Bitcoin network through Lightning. So it's happening, but as so much is when it comes to Bitcoin, we're not seeing it as much here as in the emerging markets where, you know, there's more of a need.

• 26:34Anthony Pompliano?

  What about the mining businesses? Obviously, you all really understand Bitcoin and are enthusiastic. Are the mining businesses more or less attractive? And how do you think about them in the portfolio?

• 26:47Speaker 02

  Well, we don't own any mining stocks. We have a very strong point of view on what many people criticize as the environmental damage that Bitcoin mining is doing. You know, it's interesting. I remember the dawn of the Internet. Maybe not the John Don, that was DARPA and I didn't have anything to do with it. But as it was beginning to commercialize and we were beginning to understand what it was, there was a big controversy back then as well. Do you know how much electricity the Internet is taking or using? This is terrible. It's so wasteful.

• 27:31Speaker 02

  It's for criminals. It's for pornography. It's for all of this stuff. So this typically happens with innovation. Many people think it's for nefarious uses and they... Do not see the the the bigger picture. I think the same is true here and we did a seminar, I think it was in 2020. It was right after Tesla had put Bitcoin on its balance sheet and received a lot of criticism about the environmental damage that Bitcoin was doing. And so with Jack Dorsey and Elon, we pulled together, it was a half day seminar. I think I I know it's still up somewhere.

• 28:18Speaker 02

  And at that time, we had written, we had done some research saying, wait a minute. You know, whether you you know, utility ecosystems could could use Bitcoin mining for a very important purpose. That is, all of the energy that's wasted when storage units are filled with power from the sun or the wind. Use that that that excess and put it into Bitcoin mining and then overbuild solar and wind. And that's exactly what's happening. The other thing that's happening that is fascinating is Exxon.

• 29:01Speaker 02

  I don't know how much it's rolled out, but I know it had six, it put Bitcoin mining machines into six natural gas fields around the world. And and basically, instead of flaring or venting the gas and venting is much more damaging environmentally than flaring. They put it to use in Bitcoin mining. And and now companies, I know Caruso is another company doing this. So we actually, I think if if if I'm not mistaken, I think already Bitcoin mining is the the energy use is more than 50% renewable.

• 29:46Speaker 02

  And now is contributing to building out that that ecosystem.

• 29:52Anthony Pompliano?

  How are you thinking about Block, formerly known as Square? They recently, or last couple of years, made a big push into Bitcoin. A lot of their revenue numbers seem to be tied to Bitcoin purchases at certain times. And now they've also come out with a hardware wallet. And so I know you guys have been excited about that business and maybe the investment thesis there.

• 30:14Speaker 02

  You mean Block altogether or the Bitcoin or the wallet?

• 30:18Anthony Pompliano?

  Both work.

• 30:20Speaker 02

  Okay, sure. You know, it's been fascinating to watch this two-sided market system, platform. You know, in the beginning, we did our very early research on this and we were tracking where Cash App was having success relative to PayPal. That was its main competitor at the time. And we saw that if you mapped where it was having success, it was in lower income areas.

• 30:58Speaker 02

  And so, and it was growing virally. And part of the reason was this merchant-consumer two-sided marketplace. So it was very early on. In fact, I remember back then, in the same quarter, Jack Dorsey and Marc Benioff talked about this concept that there would be no difference between consumers and businesses. And I heard them say it in the same quarterly call. And so I was like, wow, okay, what's going on here? And so as we traced this, we said, oh, okay, this is providing services to the unbanked, in the case of Cash App,

• 31:44Speaker 02

  and peer-to-peer, and enabling merchants to... Because Block can see every second of the day how well a merchant is doing, because most of the payments go through it. It was then able to help these merchants build their businesses, give them working capital loans, give them, you know, loans to make new capital investments. And then it got into payroll. And then, of course, now it's offering consumers who stay within its network.

• 32:23Speaker 02

  Very low-cost banking services. So this is an ecosystem that's evolving. And you can see that with Bitcoin, this is a little bit of a Trojan horse. I know a block or square, as it was called at the time, was just running into one regulatory obstacle after another as it tried to enter new markets. And it basically said, "To heck with this." And it's using Bitcoin now to get into other markets. In fact, it's selling or shutting down or maybe selling off some of the properties it bought in Europe in order to do this.

• 33:05Speaker 02

  So I think this is the world of offering access to financial services broadly and as broadly and as inexpensively as possible and going global doing it. And you know, it's very interesting when we try and, again, this is all about education, explain to new investors what this movement is. In the words, I'll use Chris Bernisky, who was our first analyst in 2014 on Bitcoin and went on to write a book, I think he published it in 2017,

• 33:45Speaker 02

  called Crypto Assets: The Innovative Investor's Guide to Bitcoin and Beyond. He recently is helping to bring to life, I'd like to think his ARK roots helped him because he's bringing to life for, you know, the average investor. What this really is, this is the Internet financial system. Really, that's all this is. The developers in the early days of the Internet did not expect any financial services or commerce. In fact, the Internet was illegal for consumers to use in the 80s. I remember that.

• 34:28Speaker 02

  And then email was connected to the Internet in 1993. And it took on a new life. But we still didn't expect. No one was going to put... Their credit card on even when people were trying in those early days, I remember saying I wouldn't do it. And of course you see, see what's happened. Well, what really should have happened is developers should have added in a, a, a lay, a, a, a, a layer uh for financial services native to the internet. That's what blockchain technology is. That's what it is. It's as simple as that. And uh, so it's a very big idea.

• 35:13Speaker 02

  It's a global idea and a company like Block and some of the other, of course Coinbase. Um, they understand this. Um, it's a very big idea. Um, think about how big the internet is now and it has miles to go because we've just begun.

• 35:31Anthony Pompliano?

  I, I appreciate your time. We're sad that you couldn't be here and we'll definitely do it again in the future.

• 35:36Speaker 02

  Next time. Yes. Thank you so much for, for letting me do this online. I'm, I'm really, really honored to have been a part of this.

• 35:44Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. We'll see you later.

• 35:46Speaker 02

  Okay. Bye, Pop.