Trail Tales 80

Today’s stories include wilderness tripping, formative moments, interrupting crimes and protective spirits. Outsiders Only bonus stories available for Patreon and Apple Subscribers! For a full list of our sources, visit npadpodcast.com/episodesFor the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials at:Instagram: @nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page! Thank you to the week’s partners! Coyuchi: Get 20% off your first order when you visit Coyuchi.com/ NPADAgainst The Odds: Follow Against The Odds: Tsunami in Thailand on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge all episodes early and ad-free right now on Wondery+. Soul: For 30% off your order, head to GetSoul.com and use code NPAD. Small Town Dicks: Checkout Small Town Dicks wherever you get your podcasts, or at smalltowndicks.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:32Speaker 01

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• 1:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  Hello, everyone. Welcome back to National Park After Dark. We have our Trail Tales today, and we have lots of special stories for you. But in case you are listening and not watching on YouTube, you must know that Danielle is wearing a shirt that says MILF on it today.

• 1:36Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, yes. It got me.

• 1:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  Man, I love frogs.

• 1:42Danielle LaRock?

  Man, I love frogs. Yeah.

• 1:46Danielle LaRock?

  And it's like one of those Instagram ads. I think we talked about this on a Trail Tales, like a few weeks ago.

• 1:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  I think we did, too.

• 1:54Danielle LaRock?

  Follow-up.

• 1:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  Hopefully. And maybe it wasn't...

• 1:57Danielle LaRock?

  Maybe it was just a private conversation. I'm not sure. But yeah, we... The targeted Instagram ads got me, wore me down. Every... This thing was everywhere. It was in my Instagram. It was in my Google. It was... I know everything's connected, and it's a whole thing, but...

• 2:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, I've never seen that on my Instagram ad. So it was like for you specifically.

• 2:16Danielle LaRock?

  Specifically. It's because I lingered on it too long once, and it was like, she must need this in her life.

• 2:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  Love frogs.

• 2:24Danielle LaRock?

  Man, she must love frogs. So, yeah, I got it.

• 2:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  Looks great.

• 2:29Danielle LaRock?

  Thank you. I usually wear it to bed. And actually, I did wear it to bed last night. And

• 2:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like, I'm actually still in my PJs.

• 2:39Danielle LaRock?

  I'm actually hungover right now. And I'm having

• 2:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  Which is a rarity, a rarity.

• 2:45Danielle LaRock?

  It is a rarity, but I am here for work with a smile on my face. Yeah, I was telling Cassie before the recording, but in my quest to fall back in love with New England, I've been doing different adventures and tours and things around the area. And last night I went to a historic building. It's the Library Restaurant in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. It's in a really historic building. It's beautiful. I've been there before, but they were offering a special event where they did like a wine tasting, food pairing, kind of intertwined with a historic tour. So like between courses and wines, they would tell you the history of the building and its life since the 1700s and kind of a little bit about the old rough and tumble

• 3:30Danielle LaRock?

  version of Portsmouth, which was super interesting. Fifteen thousand sailors, sixty brothels, one hundred and fifty taverns, and two police officers.

• 3:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  Wow.

• 3:41Danielle LaRock?

  So

• 3:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  This place

• 3:42Danielle LaRock?

  It's the Wild West of the East.

• 3:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  Anything.

• 3:44Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 3:47Danielle LaRock?

  But anyways, so I thought it was gonna be a wine tasting, which is great. And it was, but they gave full glasses of wine. And there was four rounds and the event was only like two hours or less. And I don't drink often. And if I do, it's like one cocktail. My bod is just not what it used to be. And

• 4:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  It can't, it can't hang.

• 4:11Danielle LaRock?

  I'm having a very difficult time. I texted my mom this morning. I'm like, I feel like I got hit by a train. Like, I don't feel well at all.

• 4:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  What happened yesterday?

• 4:20Danielle LaRock?

  She's totally fine. But yeah, anyway, that's why I'm in my PJs. It's a half of my PJs still. And I like, I really do love this shirt. Like, the colors are nice, right?

• 4:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, it's aesthetically pleasing and it's funny.

• 4:35Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I love how it's like

• 4:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  I understand why the Instagram got you.

• 4:40Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, yeah, so we have Trail Tales. Anyone that's tuning in for the first time ever, welcome. Trail Tales are our episodes where we share listener stories that are submitted by our audience and we each read three and do two bonus ones if you're a part of our subscription through Apple or Patreon. So, do you want to go first or would you like me to go first? I would love to go first. Thank God. I need a moment.

• 5:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  Perfect. My first one is titled Spooky State Park Experience. Hello, Cassie and Danielle. My name is Derek and I have a quick story about an experience I had camping in the Hawassee Oh, Oh, Okowi Scenic River State Park in East Tennessee. I very much apologize if I butchered that. I just have never heard of this before.

• 5:35Danielle LaRock?

  There's no way that can be correct, so.

• 5:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  Hawassee.

• 5:40Danielle LaRock?

  Let me look at the.

• 5:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okowi. I think Okowi might be right.

• 5:46Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, yeah.

• 5:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  Hawassee Okowi Scenic. Sorry for everyone who knows what this is and is like, you're not saying it right. I did not read this beforehand. It's all of our first times learning this story. A group of friends and I got a group camping site in Gee Creek Campground in October of 2019 to enjoy the introduction of the cool fall months. When we arrived and set up camp in the late afternoon, one of my friends pulls out a bag of little chocolates containing a spore-bearing fungal fruiting body of undisclosed species. We took a little and started a fire and let the evening set in. So, drugs.

• 6:22Danielle LaRock?

  Thank you for clarifying. Yeah.

• 6:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  In case anyone. Little chocolate containing drugs.

• 6:29Danielle LaRock?

  MILF. Man, I love fungus.

• 6:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  It really goes with everything.

• 6:35Danielle LaRock?

  It does. And we're just beginning.

• 6:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  As it starts to get close to dusk and we're beginning to experience the chocolates a bit, clouds and frontal winds start pushing in, giving the campsite an eerie fall feeling. I went to the tree line away from camp to pee at one point and to my left, in the corner of my eye, I see a shadow about the size of a bear trotting on all fours towards the tree line from the field that we're in. I shook it off blaming it on the chocolates and went to camp. Throughout the rest of the evening until I finally go to sleep, I am hearing dozens of slightly high pitched giggling and whispering coming from the tree line surrounding us. I have done quote unquote chocolates many times before, but have never had this type of experience. I attributed it to distorted sounds of insects, but it was cool that night

• 7:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  and insects really aren't prominent during this time of year. I would get close to the tree line to investigate and the sounds wouldn't change. They would just get closer. I finally decided to crawl into my tent to lay down, listening to the giggling slash whispering right outside until I fell asleep. The next day, I couldn't shake off the unique experience. So when I got home later that day, I did research on the history of the area. Not surprisingly, I find that the place had been inhabited by the Cherokee for thousands of years. However, what really shook me was that on the other side of that same tree line, not a quarter of a mile away from our camp, was an old fort called Fort Mar that was used to stockade in 1837 to detain Cherokee from the surrounding area prior to forcing

• 8:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  them down the Trail of Tears. I know that the chocolates could have very likely been the main cause of my experience, but now I wonder if it opened a door to being laughed at and fucked with by the local native spirits of the area. I haven't been back to this area since, but do plan on going back one day to see if I can get a similar experience while sober. Thanks for all the fun trail tale stories. My wife and I love y'alls podcast. Best, Derek.

• 8:32Danielle LaRock?

  Derek, you're just on, those shrooms were doing wonders for you, in my humble opinion.

• 8:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  Humble opinion, yeah.

• 8:39Danielle LaRock?

  I've never been on shrooms.

• 8:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  Laughing and giggling and the noises. I also have not.

• 8:45Danielle LaRock?

  I did try one time and it didn't work.

• 8:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, why didn't it work?

• 8:49Danielle LaRock?

  That is a sign.

• 8:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  Were they just like regular mushrooms?

• 8:52Danielle LaRock?

  Maybe. I don't know. It was in college, of course, and they were like sprinkled on a peanut butter sandwich. And yeah. Mushroom and peanut butter. That's disgusting. First off, but continue. I understand. Okay. I know. But yeah, I don't know. Like, I was just kind of bracing myself and waiting for something to happen and nothing ever did. And I was just like, well, Someone just made you eat a mushroom peanut butter sandwich. And laughed at me. Stupid freshman or whatever I was. Yeah, I don't know. But I know enough.

• 9:29Danielle LaRock?

  They're like, that'll be $200. Thank you. Idiot. Um, yeah. But I do, I have seen enough people on shrooms to realize and recognize that that's probably, you just had a good trip in the woods and that's fine.

• 9:51Danielle LaRock?

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• 10:33Danielle LaRock?

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• 11:14Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, my first story is titled "The Chronicles of George the Mouse: The Swish Heard Round the Rim." "Hi Danielle and Cassie. My love for national parks began when I was 14, thanks to my grandma, who is solely responsible for this obsession. She took me on my first park trip. We flew into Jackson Hole, cruised through the Tetons, and spent a week exploring Yellowstone. And since then, I have been hooked." Fast forward to more recent years. Grandma decided she wanted to see the north rim of the Grand Canyon. I live in the Phoenix area, so she flew in from Wisconsin and we hit the road. Now, a few things about this story that are objectively wild, so let's just jump right in. We had cabins right on the rim. Incredible views. My aunt and I shared one that connected

• 11:57Danielle LaRock?

  to grandma's. We were tired from traveling and crashed early, probably around 9:30 PM. One thing you should know about my aunt, she snores, and loudly, like "could be heard on the south rim" type of loud.

• 12:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh no.

• 12:10Danielle LaRock?

  So I took sleep meds, put in my earbuds, cranked some thunderstorm sounds, and passed out. At 11:15 PM, I woke up to flashing lights in my face. Confused, groggy, blind, with no contacts in, I realized it was my aunt with her phone flashlight, whispering, "I think there's a wild animal in here." Not the thing you want to hear when you're barely conscious. She said she had heard noises outside, maybe a raccoon, or a mountain lion, or oddly, a group of people perhaps dancing. She kept hearing a weird swishing sound. Then I heard the swishing. It was coming from the tiny, empty garbage can in the corner. We tiptoed over and she suddenly screamed, "There's a mouse in the trash can." Naturally, she named him George, after my 17-year-old brother, which somehow felt fitting.

• 12:55Danielle LaRock?

  I couldn't actually see George, again, I was blind, but I heard him launch himself out of the can and scurry across the floor. He dove under the fireplace and disappeared. All that remained in the garbage were a few little pieces of mouse poop inside a flimsy garbage bag that was responsible for the said swishing noise. We were rattled, but eventually fell back to sleep. Now, you may be thinking... Why are you telling us about a mouse in a garbage can? This isn't exactly Trail Tale material, but hang in there. A few days later, Grandma and I were sitting in the front of the cabin, taking in the canyon views, when she started telling me her own mouse story about a different mouse and her garbage can. She named hers Charlie after my 24-year-old brother. Again, weirdly appropriate.

• 13:39Danielle LaRock?

  She had tried to trap Charlie by placing a book over the can, hoping he'd go to sleep? Question mark. When that failed, she marched outside in her well-dressed and coffee-obsessed nightgown and released him into the wild. I was dying laughing at the mental image, and right as I was picturing this mouse eviction scene, a park ranger walked up. He asked how long we had been staying and if we had heard anything unusual on our first night there. We both said no and asked why. And with the casual energy of someone commenting on the weather, he said, "Someone was strangled right there last night," and pointed to the trail 30 feet in front of our porch. Um, excuse me? What? I immediately went to get my aunt, the one who had woken up to what she described as

• 14:23Danielle LaRock?

  rhythmic dancing noises outside of the cabin. She launched into the whole George the Mouse story, shout out to the ranger for patiently listening to that one, and then we realized something wild. Both my aunt and my grandma had woken up at the same exact time, 11:15 PM. That's when the ranger told us that the crime had been reported to have happened. He did eventually mention that the person was okay after we freaked out for a few minutes. It seemed like he realized he shouldn't have told us someone was strangled and was trying to backtrack on the story. I sure hope that's true and that she really was okay. It seems likely that whatever my aunt and grandma had heard, mysterious swishing rhythmic dancing mouse gymnastics, was somehow connected to that incident.

• 15:06Danielle LaRock?

  And I, of course, heard none of it because I had medicated myself into a thunderstorm coma. Part of me wishes I hadn't had the earbuds in. I'm a light sleeper, so maybe I could have helped, but what could I have done? Called 911 with no service? Scream? Throw George at the strangler? Despite the insane twist, the trip was actually wonderful. On our last night, George returned for an encore. I took a page from Grandma's mouse trapping playbook. Put a book on the trash can and carried him outside. We even left a note for the next guest explaining the mouse catching technique. So I guess you're welcome strangers. Sadly, about three weeks after our stay, the cabin and much of the north rim was destroyed in a fire.

• 15:48Danielle LaRock?

  It's surreal to think that the lodge where we ate dinner, the visitor center, the gift shop, and the very porch we sipped wine on are all gone now. I truly hope George and his extended family made it out alive. I've visited the south rim many times, but this was my first time seeing the north rim. I even rode a mule down part of the North Kaibab Trail. It was an unforgettable experience and I'm so grateful I got to see it before the fires. So here is my advice. Enjoy the view, watch your back, explore while you can. The opportunity might not always be there. And if a mouse shows up in your cabin, name it something ridiculous and let it crash. It's way more fun than freaking out. Lots of love to the both of you, Grace.

• 16:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  Wow, what a ride of a story.

• 16:30Danielle LaRock?

  I know, at first.

• 16:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  From the beginning, like I didn't know where I was going. And then from the ranger and then it being the location of the recent fire. I mean, it just had a lot of things going on.

• 16:42Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I'm not sure if, I don't know what the protocol is as far as like disclosing information about someone being strangled is. But like if they apprehended the individual that was strangling someone, like do they have to disclose? Cause it's not like a threat. It's not like somebody's out on the loose or on the run.

• 17:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, I would imagine that the more like, I don't know if proper is the right word for it, but to say someone was assaulted instead of giving full details. But I really have no idea. I'm not in law enforcement at all.

• 17:17Danielle LaRock?

  Right. So. I would want to know for sure.

• 17:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  I would want to know what was going on, especially if I had a similar experience or if I noticed something that was weird. I mean, maybe that's part of telling the truth of what happened in case someone actually does have real information.

• 17:32Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 17:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  That can connect it or heard something. But yeah, it does sound like if they both woke up at the same time and both heard like this scuffling noise, it could have potentially, you could have heard that person being attacked.

• 17:45Danielle LaRock?

  Right. Yeah.

• 17:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  I feel like they're probably okay as well, just because if someone was murdered there, it would have been bigger news.

• 17:54Danielle LaRock?

  And it would have been a huge investiga- like, I'm sure you would have recognized that there was some sort of investigation going on and especially if it was right out front of the cabin.

• 18:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 18:06Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know. Anyway, well, I'm glad everyone's okay and hopefully the mice did survive the fire, but it's not looking good.

• 18:17Speaker 04

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• 19:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay, well, on to my next story is titled Bear Spray Don't Play. Hi there. My name is Mackenzie. Since I have started listening to your guys' podcasts back in 2021, every time I go out into the wilderness for a hike or excursion, I say to myself, "Please don't become a listener tale before my hikes as a pre-hike ritual."

• 20:07Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, man. I feel like you're almost like putting it out into the universe that way.

• 20:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  At the same rate, I think to myself, "Well, it may not be the worst thing to have a cool story to write in, though." Right? Wrong. My story begins the night before my hike. I was planning a trip to Minnesota's North Shore just for a quick weekend visit as I live just two hours south of Duluth. Not sure when you're reading this, but I hope you enjoy/ enjoyed your time up there while you came up. You did. It was really fun.

• 20:37Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, yeah. And Duluth, I don't, we got to return to Duluth because

• 20:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  We were in Duluth.

• 20:42Danielle LaRock?

  We missed it.

• 20:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  It was raining and foggy and we couldn't even see it.

• 20:48Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. And every single person we talked to, not just the recommendations that listeners give, but even when we were physically there, like up after, up in the Voyagers area, and we mentioned Duluth, and every single person has the same reaction. "Oh, my God, we love Duluth."

• 21:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  Duluth is great.

• 21:06Danielle LaRock?

  It's so amazing.

• 21:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  We could barely see it. We went to the Starbucks and

• 21:10Danielle LaRock?

  Then left.

• 21:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  Drove to Wisconsin and

• 21:13Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, yeah. We got a redo.

• 21:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  For sure. I was checking things off my list for my upcoming hike: boots, socks, backpack, self-defense items, and bear spray, of course, as we are in bear country in the Superior National Forest. We have black bear here, but that doesn't mean you won't run into wolves, big cats, and other predators that you may spook/ may spook you on the trail. Anyways, I was sitting in my guest bedroom at my apartment, collecting my gear, and when I got to my bear spray, I noticed the expiration date was coming up this year and thought to myself, "Hmm, I need to get another one of these before my upcoming trip to Voyagers National Park." I was reading the bottle out of curiosity to see what the protocol for the use of spray was, as I have never actually practiced using the spray. From the looks on the container, it appeared that there is a safety latch that you pull back, and then you push a button

• 22:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  To the top of the can and this triggers the spray. Because I am curious and dumb, I wanted to pull back the safety to see if it was true that there would be a button there. It wasn't true. As I pulled back the safety, the can let out a solid spray on the white wall of my guest bedroom. Oh, no. Fun fact, bear spray is brown, or at least the can I have is. It didn't take long for my throat and nose to get pierced with the gas and coughing and sneezing ensued. Amongst watery eyes and a nose that started running like hell, I got up quickly and shut the door to the guest room, running out to the living room where my dear husband was sitting on the couch. I said to him wearily, um, we have a slight issue.

• 22:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  Knowing me and knowing there's always something I'm up to, he sprung into action and asked what happened. I told him, I sat on the can of spray and it sprayed, as I was too embarrassed to tell him the truth of how the situation came about. My husband, bless his heart, didn't ask many questions, but I am pretty sure by the spray pattern on the wall, he figured it out pretty quickly that I was fibbing. He immediately started to clean the spray up, opening the window in the guest room and bringing a huge box fan from the guest room to, into the guest room to air it out. He didn't last long before he needed to cover his mouth and nose with towels before making short trips into the guest room while holding his breath to get this cleaned up. Meanwhile, while he was being brave and tackling the spray, I was dying, let me tell you.

• 23:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  I was in the army and having been in the gas chamber during basic training, that was nothing compared to the bear spray. I would have rather gone through the chamber again. I couldn't even stand within five feet of the guest room without the gas wafting out into the hall and piercing my nose and throat, causing the sneezes and runny nose to start all over again. When my husband was done cleaning, he asked me if we should put the towel he used to clean the spray in the washing machine. Uh, no.

• 23:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  We are not keeping the thing as I'm sure the spray would not leave the towel with a wash, but even if it did wash out, it would remind me of how silly this whole thing was, or is. I am typing to you as I sit comfortably on the couch, still recovering from the spray, while sneezing every few minutes, preparing to leave for my hike in the morning. Hopefully tomorrow, as I head out for my hike and say to myself, my pre-hike ritual, I remember that bear spray is not a toy. And hopefully, we learn from this, that if you're going to test bear spray, know that it is a real weapon, and please, for my sake, test it outside, with the wind probably. I don't know. I'm no expert, clearly.

• 24:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  And then they just end it.

• 24:42Danielle LaRock?

  That's all. Well, I've said this before, but we've had an incident. Me and Ian had an incident once with bear spray, and it was so awful. And it wasn't even a full spray. It's like it leaked somehow, and it got, it was like in the side pocket of the, of our packs. And it leaked or something, it got on something, and I didn't know. And I went to reach for it, and it got on my hands, and then it got in his hand. And it was, it was a mess, and it was awful. And I can't even imagine a full spray of it, because that was pretty brutal.

• 25:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  This isn't bear spray, it's mace, but I will always remember in college, my roommate Erin, who you know, and if you're listening, I'm sorry, I'm retelling the story. But she had just got pepper spray, and she had it on her keys. And we were in college, and we were walking, and she's like, yeah, I'm really excited. I have this pepper spray. Look, like, let's see how far it shoots out. And she holds, she picks it up, holds it out in front of her, and sprays it forward. But unluckily for her,

• 25:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  The wind was coming towards her and it was kind of strong too. And immediately the spray comes back and she pepper sprayed herself in the face. And we luckily, there was a bathroom not too far away that we ran into and she's like washing her eyes out. And we're like, we were with me and my other roommate and we were kind of laughing and also sad for her too. Cause it was funny how it happened, but it sucked that it was happening. She was clearly in pain. But it was, I'll never forget that. If you are spraying anything, do not spray it right in front of your face. And make sure that the wind is not uh coming towards you as well.

• 26:23Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. And in the context of the bear spray, at least, I don't know about pepper spray or mace, but there are bear sprays out there that you can get that come in packs where one is a blank. So it is the same like size, it's in the same can, it has the same mechanisms. Right. Yeah. So you can practice with it. So you don't have to practice with the actual bear mace. But it's yeah, just like a blank. And that's how I first familiarized myself with bear spray.

• 26:56Danielle LaRock?

  And it was very helpful.

• 26:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  Also comes out a lot stronger than mace does. So like if you're in a situation with a bear and it's like windy, like you don't have to worry as much. I mean, if you spray a bear spray, you're probably gonna feel the effects anyway, at least a little bit. But if you spray bear spray and there's a gust of wind, you don't have to be like, well, I have to wait for the gust of wind before I can spray this, you know? It's very, it's very powerful. Um, but just in case anyone was like, oh no, no, I have to worry about bear spray. It's mace. Don't, mace comes out a lot lighter than bear spray does and just don't, just don't mace yourself or bear spray yourself.

• 27:31Danielle LaRock?

  Speaking of bear spray, I was going through our suggestions recently and somebody wrote in and said, you should do a story on the history of U D A P bear spray, which is like a very, very popular brand of uh bear mace. And like you would recognize the logo, I'm sure, like your bear mace maybe even is that brand. But the whole reason the guy created it is because he got attacked by a bear in Montana by a grizzly.

• 28:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  Interesting.

• 28:01Danielle LaRock?

  And then he, he's like the founder of that spray and stuff. So.

• 28:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's good marketing. I mean,

• 28:08Danielle LaRock?

  They say, "Trust me."

• 28:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  Someone who has experienced what happens if you don't have it.

• 28:14Danielle LaRock?

  Right.

• 28:51Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, so my next story is titled Becoming a Woman at Crater Lake National Park. I am a new listener of the podcast, but can't believe it's taking me so long to hop on the NPAD train. I love listening to the episodes on my daily walks and my drives to work. Thank you for keeping me company these past few months. I'm writing in to share a defining moment in my life which occurred at a national park. Thought people could maybe relate, or at least laugh at my experience. Either way, it's totally fine with me. I'm originally from Vermont and my parents are outdoor fanatics who also happen to be teachers. So during the summer before I started 7th grade, they decided to take me and my younger brother on a six-week road trip across the country to visit some national parks that either held emotional significance to them

• 29:35Danielle LaRock?

  or parks they had never been to but had always wanted to see. In June of 2012, we all packed into our Jeep Cherokee with a pop-up camper hitched onto the back, and we were off. It was a formative summer in many ways. We visited parks like Mesa Verde, Yellowstone, Zion, Sand Dunes, Arches, Crazy Horse, etc. But one park stands out for me in particular, and that is Crater Lake. It was early July by the time we made it to Oregon, so we were maybe two and a half weeks into our trip. We pulled into the parking lot and clamored out to start the trek to the lake. When we reached the viewing area, I was mesmerized. It was a beautiful day, and I had never seen water so blue in all of my 12 whole years of life. My brother, on the other hand, was not as impressed.

• 30:19Danielle LaRock?

  When planning the trip, my parents let each of us pick one national park which we wanted to visit, and Crater Lake was his choice. Mine was Mount Rushmore, and yes, I do regret it. Once we visited.

• 30:31Danielle LaRock?

  It's like of all the national parks, ever see one.

• 30:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  I pick Mount Rushmore.

• 30:36Danielle LaRock?

  I mean.

• 30:38Danielle LaRock?

  You live, you learn.

• 30:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  Not even the Badlands. The Badlands are right there.

• 30:43Danielle LaRock?

  They did mention they stopped a crazy horse. So there is that. And I don't know, I can kind of see like this person is 12 years old at the time.

• 30:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  You learn so much about Mount Rushmore at that time.

• 30:54Danielle LaRock?

  And that's like peak Mount Rushmore. Mount Rushmore is on everything.

• 30:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 30:58Danielle LaRock?

  When you're 12 years old. It's like everywhere in every textbook, on every poster, in every history class. So I can see.

• 31:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  The only national park you even know about is Mount Rushmore.

• 31:06Danielle LaRock?

  Right. Yeah. So it's like, I can understand why you're like, I gotta see this baby in person. Once we reached the end of the trail with the expanse of cerulean spread out before us, he paused and listlessly stated, so it's just a lake. Morale continued to deteriorate as we left the park to drive to our campsite. And my dad suddenly realized that he had put his digital camera down on the top of the car after we finished our hike and had forgotten to grab it before we drove away. We turned around and searched along the road and in the parking lot for signs of the lost camera. But alas, the camera was nowhere to be found. We arrived at Mazama campground and indulged in a sad and quiet family meal of pesto pasta and canned peaches. Yum.

• 31:50Danielle LaRock?

  We took turns trekking to the bathrooms, which were a three minute walk from our camper to brush our teeth and then climbed into bed. I woke up around midnight feeling weird, lightheaded, nauseous, feverish, and an extra layer of something strange. There was a cramping in my abdomen that I had never felt before. I woke my mom up and she walked with me to the bathrooms. Half delusional and sick in a bathroom stall, I asked my mom, what is happening to me? Her answer, you're becoming a woman, whatever that meant. Eventually, we walked back to the camper, but my stomach jolted and I turned us right back around. I made it within 15 feet of the bathrooms before I puked up. Half digested pesto pasta and canned peaches onto the side of the trail.

• 32:33Danielle LaRock?

  I woke up the next morning to find that not only did I feel a lot better, but also that my shorts felt strangely damp. So my mom dragged me back past the shameful puke pile and taught me how to use a pad in the Crater Lake campground bathroom. After finding out that I had gotten sick the night before, my brother, forever the hypochondriac, convinced himself that he was coming down with whatever I had. My mom, doing her very best not to embarrass me, tried to,

• 33:03Danielle LaRock?

  tried to explain to him that this was not an illness that he could catch, nor would ever catch this illness. This tactic did not work and eventually, after he started to complain of a stomach ache, I told him the truth. I had just gotten my very first period. He suddenly and miraculously felt so much better. The rest of the trip went on without a hitch, but I will never be able to think of Crater Lake without remembering this formative piece of my lore. I like to think that this was the universe telling me that my womanhood and the great outdoors go hand in hand. Or maybe life just sucks sometimes and you get your first period at Crater Lake. Thanks so much for all that you do to support our nation's beautiful parks. Your podcast brings me joy, laughter, and hope.

• 33:48Danielle LaRock?

  Best, Isabel.

• 33:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's a cool first period story.

• 33:51Danielle LaRock?

  Definitely, I could not tell you when, I know I was young. I got my first period very young.

• 33:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  Did you?

• 33:59Danielle LaRock?

  Remember when, like, it wasn't a memorable.

• 34:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. I don't remember, and I thought it would be too, because I remember like taking classes and learning about your period and being like, I'm gonna know when this happens and don't wear white shorts. Or don't wear white clothes, white pants, white shorts, anything. As soon as I learned about a period, I didn't want to wear anything white just in case. And I remember during my, during the class, because we were in sixth grade, they taught us about our periods. And during that class, I like, I remember I thought I got my period and I definitely did not. I think there's like.

• 34:36Danielle LaRock?

  It's actually happening.

• 34:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  There was like a dot on my underwear and I was like, it's here. And it was not, but that's my only memory of my first period. But then after that, I didn't get it till I was like 14 or something.

• 34:50Danielle LaRock?

  That's so funny that you bring up the white because. Have you seen those memes where it's like talking about like the sun exploding or the Bermuda Triangle or something and just learning about it and thinking it was gonna be like such a huge problem in your everyday life?

• 35:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 35:04Danielle LaRock?

  I thought that like white, wearing white was gonna be a huge problem because my period could come at any time. And lo and behold, I, wearing white has never been an issue for me. I don't think I own anything pure white.

• 35:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 35:18Danielle LaRock?

  Like especially bottoms. Like the whole don't wear white after Labor Day, never an issue for me.

• 35:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  I never wore it to begin with. I remember I had white jeans forever and I never wore them and I ended up donating them. I have like one picture in college where I'm wearing white pants though and I can

• 35:36Danielle LaRock?

  Cause you were afraid of your period? Or you just didn't?

• 35:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  I just, no, I just don't wear white pants because they're not practical at all. Like you know what, everything, you don't always sit on clean surfaces and you eat and just white pants don't make any sense.

• 35:51Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, whenever I see someone in a white pant, I'm like, oh, they have their life together.

• 35:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, you have to have your life together to wear white pants.

• 35:59Danielle LaRock?

  That's brave. One of my nicknames growing up, my family had for me was Messamatic. Like I'm a messy, like especially eating, I'm just like a very messy eater. So I could never

• 36:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  Notice you being a mess. You're a very fast eater. I don't even see you eat like, oh, well, I see you eat, but it's gone in like one second. Like I've taken like three bites and your meal is gone. And I'm like, oh my God.

• 36:23Danielle LaRock?

  It's so funny you say that because um, a couple of months ago, and I know this about myself, I do know this and I'm kind of trying to become more aware of it. It was never an issue and it's usually not an issue because I'm by myself when I'm eating. So I don't need to be cognizant of that, but and even when I'm with you, it's like, we're not like at a formal

• 36:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  This doesn't matter.

• 36:45Danielle LaRock?

  It doesn't matter. But like a month ago. I don't know when it, whatever it was. Jeff and I were out to dinner in Boston and it was a combination of me eating fast, but also I was starving. And also this was like a really good meal, like one of the best meals I've ever had type of thing. And it was like a ravioli. So they only gave me like seven or eight little raviolis. It wasn't a huge meal, but then he had like a giant pizza to himself. So he said like one thing, by the time he even finished his sentence, I was literally done. And I've never seen someone react to my eating like that before. He's like, what just happened? He's like, I've never seen. Where did it go? It's like picking up the plate, like.

• 37:29Danielle LaRock?

  I was like scraping the sauce like I was done. He's like, he didn't even have one slice down. Like it was just, I'm like, I'm so sorry. And then it was weird because he was alone. Eating. Right. And I didn't know where to look. I'm like, I'm, I should have just taken this one ravioli at a time. Like, yeah, and put down my fork. It's like the same thing with walking. Life mantra, one ravioli at a time. Truly. Same thing with walking, though. I have to be cognizant to walk slow. Yeah. When I'm with people. Yeah. Because otherwise. Quickly. I'm alone. Walking very far ahead of everybody. Oh, Lord. Um, well, we were talking about periods. I don't know what happened. Anyway, cool story about your period.

• 38:12Danielle LaRock?

  I mean, it is. I think that it's nature, you know? I would love to hear about people's memorable formative moments. It doesn't have to be your period because clearly I don't remember. I remember. Be the first time you shit yourself in the woods. That has been a coffee. No, we get enough. Do you know how many shit stories we get? You don't even know. We did ask for them. No. We did. I asked for embarrassing stories and everyone just happens to. The embarrassing stories usually involve shit. I feel like we need to expand beyond that.

• 38:45Danielle LaRock?

  Yes, that's embarrassing, but.

• 38:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  The most embarrassing arguably. I'm I'm honestly honored that people trust us with their shit stories because that is, I feel like those are kind of sacred.

• 38:56Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 38:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 38:58Danielle LaRock?

  We were just talking about, we were just talking about that like a couple of days ago.

• 39:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 39:04Danielle LaRock?

  People just shitting their pants feels like should be something that's rare.

• 39:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't know if men are just more comfortable with telling the stories of them shitting their pants or if men truly shit their pants more than women.

• 39:16Danielle LaRock?

  No, I think it's that. I think it's both, but I don't know what's going on biologically, but I feel like they're just more prone to, I don't know, whatever.

• 39:28Danielle LaRock?

  I don't want to talk about this anymore.

• 39:35Speaker 01

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• 40:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Anyway, our next story is, mine is titled, Was it our imagination? I don't think so. Hi ladies, my name is Trish. I wanted to first thank you for the great podcast and how much effort you put into the stories that you tell. My story happened over several years ago. I grew up in a rural area as a kid. We didn't care or even pay attention to people's financial, social status, or any of that kind of thing. We played with whatever kids were around. My friend Jen and I would play at each other's houses as often as we could. And just down the gravel road from her house was a rundown house with a gaggle of kids that we would play with. All of a sudden, the family was gone and the house was boarded up. Being young, maybe 10 or 12, we just thought they moved and didn't think anything of it.

• 40:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  Then, strange things started happening when we were together at her house. One example was when she had a slumber party for her birthday. I think it was her 14th birthday. I went to her house early to help her get ready for the party, and we were getting the living room ready with sleeping bags and lots of pillows. When we both stood at the window that faced the old rundown house and we were frozen in our tracks. Her dad asked us what was wrong and we told him that smoke was coming out of the chimney of that house. He said that wasn't possible since the chimney had fallen off and away from the house. Later that night, when all the other girls fell asleep, she and I moved to a corner of the room away from the other girls so we could talk about what we saw until we fell asleep.

• 41:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  I woke up feeling that someone was standing on my arm at the same time she felt like someone was pinching her leg. No one was near us when this happened, but I ended up with a bruise on my arm the size of a child's foot. Over the years, we had other odd occurrences, but only when we were together at her house. Like hearing hands or something dragging down the walls of the hallway outside her room, clothes in our closet moving on the hanging bar, a hairbrush breaking the mirror of her antique dressing table. Yes, we saw the brush fly across the room. At around the age of 16, we decided that it would be a good idea that we stop getting together at her house since scary things only happened when we were together. When we told our moms about our

• 42:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  plan, we had told them about everything that we had experienced as it happened. They told us what happened at that rundown house. Apparently, the family that had five or six kids that we played with had a child that they had locked in the closet that in that house and she eventually passed away from neglect. The parents were arrested and the kids went into foster care. We didn't know about the little girl that died in the house, but feel like she was the cause of all the disturbing things that we experienced. We've never been in that house together again, and neither of us had had any other experiences.

• 42:47Danielle LaRock?

  That's really frightening. That's a really sad story. That's awful. To have like an actual potential explanation, that's so sad. And like, as a kid, not understanding either, like, that's just, I don't know.

• 43:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  What happened?

• 43:06Danielle LaRock?

  That's creepy. Yeah.

• 43:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  And the fact that you were like there, playing with the kids and like the whole neighborhood didn't know what was going on and then it.

• 43:13Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 43:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's so. That always makes me, that always breaks my heart when you hear of kids that are neglected and abused. And I just, those stories are really tough.

• 43:24Danielle LaRock?

  And it's always kind of like, I shouldn't say always, but often it's like the neighbors would never suspect type of thing. Like, I had no idea that this was happening, or I wouldn't have suspected those people to be the culprits of something so evil, you know?

• 43:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  I think it's hard to comprehend that anyone is capable of that. I mean, there's no one that I've ever met that I've been like, they are capable of something like that. And collectively, we both know someone who was convicted of something similar. So, I mean, I have never, we do, yes.

• 44:01Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, yes. Oh, my God. Yes.

• 44:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 44:04Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, my God. Yeah.

• 44:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  A huge case in New Hampshire. I would have never thought, and I didn't know them super well or anything, but I would never suspect anything like that. And I think that that's, the thing is, no one suspects that anyone is capable of such cruelty until it's too late, which is really tough. And what happens inside people's homes are often really secretive and people just don't know. So, uh, I, stories like that always just make me really, really sad.

• 44:34Danielle LaRock?

  Well, I will turn it around with my last story.

• 44:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 44:38Danielle LaRock?

  And it's titled, "Nature's Toilet Never Gets Robbed." Hey ladies, I love the pod and have been really inspired by you two to get out there more as a solo female traveler. So maybe that means you're responsible for what happened to my story? Just kidding. No. Anyways, I'm a graduate student in Colorado, but my research takes me to Southern Oregon a couple of times a year. This past summer was my first field season, so I was doing my best to explore whenever I could on weekends and breaks. I visited the Redwoods, Crater Lake National Park, and Oregon Caves National Monument, and was having a great time hiking and seeing the sights on my own, all while listening to your podcast, of course. On my final weekend, I decided to make the three-hour drive to Lava Beds National Monument. Now,

• 45:20Danielle LaRock?

  one thing you should know about me, I hate peeing in the woods. Yes, I love hiking. Yes, I love nature, but I'm a shy peer, okay? So I had my morning coffee, hit the road, and two hours in, I was desperate. There had been literally nothing around for hundreds of miles except dense forest. So when I finally saw a gas station in the middle of nowhere, I took a hard right into the parking lot. When I entered the store, there was a man standing behind the cash register. So I abandoned all pretenses of buying something and immediately asked where their bathroom was. He stared at me and said, how did you get in here? Now, I've never been asked that question before, so I'm pretty sure I just gestured vaguely at the front door and said something like,

• 46:04Danielle LaRock?

  uh, through the door. Then he said, I don't work here and they're not open. I immediately apologized and left. It wasn't until 10 minutes down the road that it hit me. That guy had totally been robbing the place. And somehow, through sheer confusion, his and mine, I just walked right back out. I can't stop thinking about whoever.

• 46:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't work here and this building is closed.

• 46:32Danielle LaRock?

  I'm trying to commit a crime, like.

• 46:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's not a great time.

• 46:40Danielle LaRock?

  I can't stop thinking about whoever had to review that security footage. Just me confidently strolling into an active robbery, asking to use the bathroom and then apologizing to the robber and leaving totally unfazed. So anyways, enjoy the view, but maybe just pee in the woods next time. I just envisioned this Spider-Man meme and they're just like pointing finger guns at each other, not knowing what to do.

• 47:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, I'd love to get the robber's point of view.

• 47:09Danielle LaRock?

  Totally not panic and just being like, yeah, you got, I, I think if I was robbing it, I would have just gestured to the back. Like it's a gas station, right? There's gotta be a bathroom in the back and just.

• 47:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't know. I think.

• 47:21Danielle LaRock?

  To not cause, like draw attention.

• 47:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  I would say the same thing. Like I don't work here and it's not open because I wouldn't want them to go to the bathroom and then come out and then like realize that no one's around.

• 47:32Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, but by saying I don't work here and they're not open, then why are you here? Like that raises questions for me.

• 47:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, but I think I would be similar to this person where I wouldn't really think about it. I would just be like, oh, okay. And I'd leave because I wouldn't, I wouldn't put two and two together until after I left. I don't think I would be like, what are you doing here? Like I'm not that. Yeah, so if you tell me what you're doing, I think I would be the same thing. I'd be like, oh, this is awkward and like kind of leave like, sorry, I'm disturbing you in your home. Or like, I don't know, like, I'd be like, clearly you're supposed to be here, but I'm not. I don't know. I would just love to get the robber's perspective of like, yeah, I was in the middle of robbing. I had a timeline. I was trying to get out and then this girl just interrupted me. I thought I had to run, but then she just needed to use the bathroom and we were both confused.

• 48:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't know. I would just love to get their perspective.

• 48:27Danielle LaRock?

  All senses do kind of go out the window when you have to pee that bad. I can't relate because I will pee anywhere. Like, I don't have the shyness factor, but like you just, everything starts to go, your judgment and perception of the world kind of just gets skewed when you have to pee so bad. You're like, I don't care. I literally don't care if you're actively robbing a place. I just need to pee.

• 48:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like, do your thing. I'm not a snitch.

• 48:56Danielle LaRock?

  Anyways, okay. Well, that's all three of my stories.

• 48:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  Cool. Well, thank you, everyone for hanging out and tuning in this week for Trail Tales. If you are interested in hanging out with us for our next Trail Tales, we have two, if you're on Patreon or Apple subscriptions, and mine is titled, "The Time My Mom Narrowly Avoided A Machete-Wielding Man On The AT."

• 49:20Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, mine is titled, "Don't Fuck With Bob."

• 49:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  Don't fuck with Bob?

• 49:24Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 49:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh. I'm interested in both of these stories and you guys should come hang out with us on Patreon and listen to them.

• 49:32Danielle LaRock?

  Okay. Well, we will see everybody next week. In the meantime, enjoy the view.

• 49:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  But watch your back. See ya.

• 49:40Danielle LaRock?

  Thank you for joining us again this week. If you have a Trail Tale of your own you'd like to share, you can write to us at [email protected] or visit our website at npadpodcast.com. Bonus Trail Tales and content are available to Patreon members and Apple subscribers. Follow the show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and X at National Park After Dark. And if you prefer to watch our episodes, you can find us on YouTube at National Park After Dark. And as always, if you enjoy the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.

• 50:27Speaker 05

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• 50:58Speaker 06

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