Should You Get A Switch Or Switch 2?

Jason, Kirk, and Maddy open up the mailbag for some of your burning questions. Should a family that's never gotten a Switch before get a Switch 1 or Switch 2? Is it ethical to play online games on private servers? And can Outer Worlds 2 really critique capitalism while being made by one of the world's biggest corporations?

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Jason Schreier?

  In honor of Summer Games Done Quick, we're announcing a new initiative. It's called Games Done Slow. It never actually ends. Welcome to TripleClick, where we bring the games to you. This week, we are answering some of your burning questions on everything from private servers and MMOs to Switch 1 versus Switch 2, and where does Mario go when he dies?

• 0:31Jason Schreier?

  I'm Jason Schreier. I'm Kirk Hamilton.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  And I'm Maddy Myers.

• 0:34Jason Schreier?

  And we are one day away from TripleClick Live, which is very exciting. Sure is exciting. Oh, man. I'm excited. I know that much. It's gonna be a fun one. So for those of you who have missed us talking about this for the last little while, we will be performing a live show in Portland. This is gonna be a little different than our previous live shows, because we've got a whole musical extravaganza and game shows and all sorts of fun stuff planned. For people who are not in Portland, this Friday night, July 11th, we will be putting... So the show is gonna be roughly two hours, maybe a little longer. We're gonna put the first half as our main episode for next week's show. So you will get to hear that no matter where you are.

• 1:17Jason Schreier?

  And then the second half of the live show, really the complete live show, will be in the bonus feed for Maximum Fun subscribers. So if you're not a subscriber, you will get the kind of the core, the main topic, and one more things in the live show. And if you are a subscriber, you'll get everything else. And speaking of subscribers, how do you become a subscriber?

• 1:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, what is that?

• 1:38Jason Schreier?

  What does that mean? You may wonder. We are a listener-supported podcast, which means that we rely on all of you fine folks out there to make the show possible and to become a subscriber and support us. You can go to maximumfun.org/join. You will get bonus episodes from us every month, including the live show I just mentioned. That'll be a fun one. And lots of other stuff. We just talked about Andor Season 2 in a bonus episode that just ran. That was a very fun conversation. And this year, we've talked about other stuff, games like Blueprints and a whole bunch of other stuff. So become a member. Go to maximumfun.org/join today.

• 2:19Jason Schreier?

  All right, so let's get into this week's episode, shall we?

• 2:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:25Jason Schreier?

  This week, we are opening up the listener mailbag and taking some questions from all you fine folks. It's time for Burning Questions.

• 2:34Speaker 01

  Let's go.

• 2:34Jason Schreier?

  Kirk, one of these days, we've been doing this show for like five years and we still don't have a sound effect for Burning Questions.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  Should be like a crackling fire, maybe, like, because the bag's on fire, folks.

• 2:44Kirk Hamilton?

  I have played fire sound effects at times. Fire doesn't really cut.

• 2:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:51Kirk Hamilton?

  I've played that famous Fireball sound effect. It's, everyone will know it because it's in movie trailers in the 90s. It's in every movie trailer. It goes, and it's also in that video game Magic Carpet. I've talked about this before. At one point, I even rode an electric guitar. It was like, Burning Questions! Or something like, it was like a power chord, but we just never, I just never remember to go back and use them, or I haven't felt fully satisfied with any one sound. But one of these days, we'll have, we'll have a little jingle for Burning Questions.

• 3:18Jason Schreier?

  One of these days, I'm excited. Just a reminder, if you want to submit a question, you can reach us at [email protected]. And just make sure to keep your questions nice and short, nice and pithy, and also interesting. Make them interesting. If they're not interesting, we probably won't read them. All right, we got some fun ones to get through today. Matty, why don't you kick us off with this one from Zach?

• 3:43Speaker 01

  Sure. So Zach writes, "Something that has really been bugging me, far more than it probably should, about the announcement of Outer Worlds 2 is the disconnect between the game's anti-capitalist tone and its price outside of an Xbox Game Pass subscription. Seeing and hearing all the anti-capitalist messaging in the trailer, only for it to be followed by an exorbitant purchase price to, quote, 'own the game', unless you subscribe to Game Pass, yay, no more ownership, really bummed me out. But it got me thinking. Can a game from a major studio like Obsidian even deliver genuine anti-capitalist criticism if its parent company actively undercuts that message with how it publishes and prices the game?

• 4:23Speaker 01

  Does that undermine the work of the writers, since Microsoft is essentially commodifying anti-capitalist dissent? Doesn't this make Outer Worlds 2 part of the problem it's trying to satire?"

• 4:36Speaker 01

  Just starting off with an easy one here, I think.

• 4:38Jason Schreier?

  Interesting.

• 4:39Kirk Hamilton?

  Microsoft, huh? What a company.

• 4:43Speaker 01

  Yep, another week at Microsoft.

• 4:44Jason Schreier?

  Well, let me pose this to you guys. Let me pose this to you guys. I'm not an expert on anti-capitalism literature, discourse, or what the alternatives would be, or the model of socialism, or whatever else. But I think that most, for all of human society, or for most of the majority of the humans' existence, we've exchanged goods and services for some sort of currency. It doesn't strike me as like, not anti-capitalist to charge a certain amount of money, even if it's higher than usual. Like, how, I guess I'm curious as to what the disconnect is there just because the price is raising, if that necessarily is like, a pro-capitalist message.

• 5:25Jason Schreier?

  To me, that just speaks to inflation, which may be a part, an aspect of capitalism, but that's also an aspect of any monetary system. So I guess I'm a little confused by the premise of this.

• 5:36Kirk Hamilton?

  Right, so let's maybe expand the premise to one that I at least find a little bit more relevant, which is, can a game published by Microsoft, the ultimate, or one of the ultimate mega-corps, this shining example of the follies of capitalism that has caused so much harm and damage, that funds weapons of war, that is engaged in so much anti-competitive behavior, that is pouring billions of dollars into artificial intelligence in this ruinous waste? Can they put forth a game? Can they publish and fund a game that is anti-capitalist in its message? I feel like that's maybe a more relevant question.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  Sure. And also, can you, as a developer who works at a company that's been acquired by a corporation like Microsoft, still make art that you believe in? I think that's something that the individual developers probably ask themselves, especially if they're working on a game that is satirizing big corporations, which Outer Worlds 2... Very much is. It's a big part of the game.

• 6:37Jason Schreier?

  I mean, if anything, that hits the message harder, I would say. It feels like if you can get away with working for a massive corporation while at the same time criticizing the existence of those corporations without getting fired for it.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, that tends to be my inclination. It's like, do what you can get away with, right?

• 6:57Kirk Hamilton?

  I think, I think, yeah, you can, you know, you can make art under any circumstances. And certainly, we're all members of a society that we also make art criticizing. And that's part of how art works. So I do think that it's totally valid. Now, whether Zach or another person can get over that tension is another question. I think if you look at this and just think, I just can't square this circle. The fact that Microsoft is selling me this game that's presenting this satirical view of corporate life, I just, to me, it just feels off. I'm just not into it. I totally understand if someone feels that way.

• 7:31Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, journalism is the same way, right? Like, I work for Bloomberg, a massive corporation. And a lot of people who work for Bloomberg News, like, feel are welcome to criticize capitalism. And it's, well, technically Bloomberg's mission is like Bloomberg News's mission is to chronicle capitalism, which I think is a really interesting one because it allows you to explore capitalism from all these different directions. And nobody is told, like, hey, you can't write this because the corporate overlords will disagree or something like that, at least as far in my personal experience. That's not something I've run into or like getting pressure or anything like that. Your point about working within the confines of the system that we that we are, have to live in, I think is an apt one.

• 8:15Jason Schreier?

  That said, I mean, I've always, I've always been a little bit skeptical of boycotts in general, but I've always said, I think the three of us have always agreed on this show. Whenever we talk about like boycotts and companies' terrible practices, like when we were talking about Activision Blizzard back when that lawsuit hit a few years ago. I think as a personal customer, you kind of, you have to make your own ethical decisions of what you want to support, what you don't. Certainly, I've seen a lot of calls for like cancelling Game Pass in the wake of these massive Xbox layoffs last week.

• 8:50Jason Schreier?

  People feeling like, hey, what am I supporting here? Just fair question. Heartbreak and devastation and people losing their jobs. So if it's, if you're coming at this and you're like, man, something doesn't sit right with me buying this game and supporting Microsoft even while this game is trying to be anti-capitalist. Then, I mean, I think that's, that's a personal perfectly reasonable stance to take as a person.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is. I also always have to think about it in terms of being a person who's been getting Game Pass for free for an extremely long time. I may not work at Polygon anymore, but Microsoft sent us Game Pass codes and mine's still working. Like, I haven't had to pay for Game Pass for years and years at this point. And so as a critic, I always, and all three of us always have to try to put ourselves in the position of imagining what it would be like if we weren't getting games for free, which we do all the time on this show. Like, this is an ethical quandary that we just haven't had to face for years, or at least I know I haven't.

• 9:53Speaker 01

  And instead, I get to be like, I'll criticize Hogwarts Legacy, for example, without having had to buy it or whatever, because, you know, my, my workplace paid for it or I got a code or whatever it is. And that puts me in this position of like ivory tower critical thinking, where I get to be like, ah, I'm now weighing in from this neutral position. But our listeners aren't in that position. And so I'm sympathetic to Zach here for at least being in the place of thinking, well, should I buy a game like this, thereby supporting the developers who are making a game with, that maybe has messages that it sounds like Zach might agree with or think are interesting or compelling in some way. But also by supporting it, I'm also supporting the larger corporate structure behind them

• 10:38Speaker 01

  that is making decisions all the time that I don't agree with. And I don't think that question has an easy answer because, like, where does the money go? It goes to both places, right?

• 10:48Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, and I mean, Zach didn't really mention boycotts or buying the game in his question, just for what it's worth. He's sort of just asking broadly, does this undermine the artistic message of the game? His final question is, doesn't this make Outer Worlds 2 a part of the problem it's trying to satire? And I think that in a very tangible way it does, and yet at the same time, sometimes that kind of friction is inevitable. And so it's just something you have to kind of consider when you're playing the game. It's very interesting and very complicated. It's like part of, part of this modern life.

• 11:19Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, although I do think the premise here, I said this earlier, but I do think the premise of like a game being inherently more capitalist because it raised its price $10, I do think that's kind of a flawed argument. And I think the question of game prices getting hiked, that's another conversation topic that we should get into down the road. But like, that, that is not, and the question of how sustainable that is, that's a whole nother can of worms. But like, that is not something that is inherently like, like a capitalistic move. It's just kind of the nature of how currency functions. And even if we were in like a-

• 11:55Kirk Hamilton?

  Right, all capitalist satire doesn't have to be free.

• 11:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:58Jason Schreier?

  Right, right. Well, and also, if we were in, if we were in a socialist society, prices would also go up because inflation would not go away, just because we were living under different like confines.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I think I still had to purchase my own copy of the Communist Manifesto when I read it in college. So I, that was actually messed up.

• 12:19Kirk Hamilton?

  Really makes you think, Maddie.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  And I really shouldn't have had to buy it. It should have been free, I think. Oh, well.

• 12:25Jason Schreier?

  It's really, whenever you're reading about history, it always blows my mind a little bit to be like, wow, 2,000 years ago in the Roman Empire, they were still using money. They were exchanging currency for goods and services, which I think is really interesting. Just how old a currency is as a system.

• 12:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:42Jason Schreier?

  And I bet they had inflation back then, too. All right, I'm gonna read this next question. This is from Chris. "I was wondering what your thoughts are on private servers for MMOs or other live service games. Some view them as piracy, whereas others might consider them similar to mods, especially when it comes to game content not otherwise available. Most famously, the various World of Warcraft classic iterations would probably not exist without private servers demonstrating unmet customer demand." What do you guys think? Have you ever played on a private server of a, of an online game?

• 13:15Speaker 01

  Oh, sure, I have.

• 13:17Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, I guess I haven't since, you know, the days of Counter-Strike, like very early 2000s, but not on a modern MMO where they're basically, they've spoofed the servers and are running it themselves in a violation of the terms of service. I have not actually done that. But I think this is a very interesting question.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've only done it in the context of games where the servers weren't readily available. So for a time, there were several Street Fighter games that just didn't have online servers. I've said in the past, I really like Third Strike. It's one of my favorite ones. And so for a time, fan servers were the only way you could play Third Strike online, if you just wanted to compete online with people. And that's how I played it for a while. And it was very fun. And there's a Reddit communities for fighting games like that that just don't still have online servers. And typically, I mean, even Capcom is willing to just look the other way and pretend they don't see it. And they might not feel that way now because I know they've put out versions of Street Fighter that you can play online.

• 14:18Speaker 01

  I have my quibbles with some of those Capcom re-releases that we don't need to get into. But now that there are more official versions of a lot of those games, they might care. I haven't looked into that. But I think that for games where they're not otherwise available, even major developers are more likely to be like, I'm just gonna pretend I don't see this because obviously it's just a reflection of people still liking a game that is fundamentally intended to be an online game and was shipped as one and now just isn't anymore because it's not online anymore.

• 14:48Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, I've been doing this intellectual exercise where I imagine if, say, a friend of mine who I used to play Destiny with, found a way to host a private server that just had a version of Destiny from, you know, maybe, I don't know, one year after Destiny 1 came out. One with Peter Dinklage in it. Right, that sort of pulled in your, when Jason and I were total sickos, playing all the time. And they were just hosting that on their own little server and paying the server fees. And then just six of us could get on there and just play The Vault of Glass and like do Destiny Strikes together. And it wasn't like a whole big thing.

• 15:24Speaker 01

  Why are we not doing this?

• 15:26Kirk Hamilton?

  Right, and I don't know if this would be possible or not, but just to use Destiny, because that's the MMO that I played, that would be really cool. And I know that would be a violation of copyright, and I'm sure Bungie would not be happy about it. But at the same time, if it's just six people hosting it, I think that kind of thing is really cool. It'd be nice if that were more possible, or even if companies could make it possible for people to do that through their own server. I know that would kind of like, it would fracture the player base, and I'm sure there are a lot of problems with offering that to people. But people do want to go back, and they want to have some control over which version of the game they're playing. World of Warcraft Classic is a great example. But I'm sure it's true of a lot of MMOs, even though there doesn't seem to be currently a workable way to offer it. It still would be neat.

• 16:11Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, it reminds me of emulation. That's the parallel that I would make, where it's like, if you are, if you want to play something that there is no way to purchase, other than like, buying a $500 disc on eBay, where the money doesn't go to the developers anyway, then there's nothing unethical about downloading a ROM and playing it on an emulator, at least in my view. And with this, it's the same way, where I feel like if you have a private server to circumvent like, the subscription cost of an MMO, or the microtransactions, or whatever, you want to be able to get all the outfits on your private server without paying, that strikes me as a little bit less kosher than just creating a private server

• 16:53Jason Schreier?

  for something that is not available to play anyway, which doesn't really seem like a problem to me. And yes, in World of Warcraft's case, the existence of Nostalgia and other servers that like, allowed people to play the vanilla World of Warcraft, even years after it had like, evolved in all sorts of different ways and gotten expanded, that directly led to Blizzard asking them to shut down, and then revealing its own version, World of Warcraft Classic. So these private servers not only can allow people to play games in a way that they want to play if they're unavailable, can also like, force these companies' hands and lead to cool stuff. So that also seems like a win for me. And

• 17:34Jason Schreier?

  I think even though Blizzard did ask Nostalgia to go, like, did try to take it down, did take it down, I think that it ultimately helped create World of Warcraft Classic, which is a very successful product. So it's kind of a win-win.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  I wonder if the people who were part of that project feel kind of bittersweet about it, though, just being asked by Blizzard to take it down and whether there's any bad blood there. I mean, I'm not part of that community, so I don't know, but I could imagine that being the case if they didn't, if they had quibbles with the way the classic came out in comparison.

• 18:06Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, I think they were, they had some conversations with Blizzard, like Blizzard brought them onto campus and talked to them. I'm not sure how involved they were ultimately with the actual development of World of Warcraft Classic, but I don't think it was like, we're gonna just send you, we're gonna throw our lawyers at you and never talk to you.

• 18:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's like an un-classy way to do it, where it's like, we're just gonna release classic, never speak to you, and then hit you with a takedown notice. They didn't do that.

• 18:33Jason Schreier?

  I don't think they did it quite that way.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  That's good, at least.

• 18:36Jason Schreier?

  Kirk, you want to read the next question?

• 18:38Kirk Hamilton?

  Sure. This comes from Eleanor, who writes, Jason, I heard in the most recent Burning Questions that you were the ones that, you were the one who reads all these emails, which is convenient because this question is for you. So Jason has already had some time to think about this question, because he does go through our inbox for these Burning Questions episodes. Eleanor writes, I am a longtime listener since episode one of Triple Click, and I'm also an avid listener of a few other Maximum Fun podcasts. I was going through some old episodes of one of these shows, Story Break, when I heard an old Triple Click promo. In the promo, the three of you asked enticing questions to the potential listener-ing audience. Most of these you've answered on the show, but one lingers. Jason, you asked, what happens to Mario when he dies? You asked if I wanted to know that

• 19:22Kirk Hamilton?

  four years ago, and the answer is, yes, I want to know. Jason, what happens to Mario when he dies?

• 19:29Jason Schreier?

  You know, I've been thinking about this. It does feel like we asked that question. It feels like the listeners deserve an answer, and we should finally address it. So I've done a lot of reporting, I've done a lot of research, and I've actually found out the answer, which is...

• 19:49Jason Schreier?

  But if he doesn't go

• 19:53Jason Schreier?

  and Bowser's butt is

• 19:57Jason Schreier?

  All right, Matty, you want to take this next question?

• 19:59Speaker 01

  Sure, this one's from Rebecca who asks, Dear TripleClick, listening to your latest episode about the Switch 2, I thought y'all would be perfect to answer my family's quandary. We never had a Switch. We have three kids, 12, 10, and 7, who have gotten much more into PC games in the last couple of years. We own five copies of Stardew Valley, so we can play a co-op game together. But we're all sitting in different rooms doing so. This year, we've agreed that instead of getting lots of presents, we'll blow our whole Christmas gift budget on a Switch or Switch 2. The problem is, which one? We can make the money work for the Switch 2. We'll ask grandparents to send money for games. But obviously, if we get a Switch 1, we'll be able to afford a lot more. Obviously, we'll have to shell out for extra controllers, too.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  Do you have any insight on this at all? What factors am I missing in this decision? This is tough. There's pros, there's cons.

• 20:53Jason Schreier?

  I think there's only one answer, which is you gotta get the Switch 2. Because if you get the Switch 2, you're future-proofing. Because when your kids inevitably come to you next year and they're like, "This new Mario game, this new Zelda game, whatever it is, looks amazing. Can we get it?" You don't have to be like, "Oh, sorry, we only have a Switch 1. You can't get it." So the Switch 2, you can play all the old Switch 1 games. And in fact, you can probably get some of those at a discount, which will help in terms of pricing for the holiday. But you don't have to worry that next year, two years from now, three years from now, you will have to buy a new console to play the latest Nintendo games. And your kids are going to be talking about that stuff at school with their friends. They're going to be like, "Hey, like, this new game just got announced. It looks super cool.

• 21:37Jason Schreier?

  Oh, no, we can't play it because we only have a Switch 1." So I feel like it's worth the investment this holiday.

• 21:44Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, that's, that seems like good advice. This is a tough one. I mean, it is, it is a really tricky and specific situation. Thinking it through and going along with that recommendation. Yeah, like they can get controllers if they need more controllers. You can get non-first-party controllers for a lot less money than the Switch 2 controllers cost, which is also probably just a good idea if you have kids. You don't need the most cutting-edge thing. You just need something that works because it might get broken at some point anyways. And yeah, like there are older Switch 1 games that are cheaper or kind of discounted, so you can kind of pick those up. You know, your copy of Stardew Valley will still work on Switch 2. So that makes sense to me as, as advice, yeah.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think you two are correct, in part because of just the aging of the console. Like, the Switch 1 is really showing its age. The Switch 2, we compared it to a new phone, which is something I've thought about a lot as I've continued to play it and how apt that comparison feels to me. And that it is like, my Switch just feels a lot better and faster to play now because it's the new phone I got. But I will say that because Switch 1 controllers still work, maybe that's a money-saving maneuver that you could play here, especially if you're getting used or refurbished ones. Obviously, you don't want to deal with the Joy-Con drive situation. I'm talking pro controllers.

• 23:00Speaker 01

  Those still work on the Switch 2. So that seems like maybe a way to get all those additional controllers and take advantage of the backwards compatibility of the first Switch. And just save some money so you can spend as much as you want on the games, which is the most important thing here. And part of why I thought this was a good question, because you want enough games that the whole family can participate and not feel like, okay, we got one game. Now what are we supposed to do?

• 23:27Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah.

• 23:27Jason Schreier?

  That sounds like the plan. That's a good, that's very good advice. And yeah, I mean, the other thing to consider is that if you buy a Switch 1, you're, you will probably want to upgrade at some point in the future, even if it's two, three years from now, because the Switch 1 just won't be getting new games on. And then you might get sick of playing like back catalog stuff. So, uh, uh, that's $300 for the Switch 1 and then another 450 for the Switch 2 in the future. So you are saving yourself money too by future-proofing it this way.

• 23:56Speaker 01

  You're right. You're actually saving money by buying the Switch 2. That's so true. Great point.

• 24:01Kirk Hamilton?

  It's good that they have until Christmas, because you can chew on this advice and sort of game it out and figure out whether it would work or not.

• 24:07Speaker 01

  And which controllers to get, yeah.

• 24:10Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, it's the kind of decision that you'd want to make over time and you have some time.

• 24:13Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, and I think the advice would be much different if it was like, should I upgrade from the Switch one to the Switch two? That's a very different question than like, I'm buying this for the first time. In which case, it's like, you would, if you're buying a new phone, you probably want one that's either like, one to two years old, or like, the most modern one. You don't want to buy a new iPhone from seven years ago if you're getting a new phone this holiday. So, um, that's the way to go. All right, uh, next question, I'll read this one. This is from Zach. Zach says, "I, like many others, have become completely enraptured with Blueprints. One element that I haven't heard talked about quite as much is the music of the game. It may not be flashy, but it sets a perfect moody tone for the setting as you discover new clues and uncover the broader implications of the lore hidden within the estate.

• 24:56Jason Schreier?

  My only complaint is that the music doesn't play enough. Sometimes it can feel like you go an entire run without any music outside of the starting stinger. Major shout out to the group who composed it, Trigg and Gusset, for creating a soundtrack that I am vigilantly on the lookout for a vinyl pressing of..." So Zach doesn't have a question, but Kirk, as our resident Strong Songs host and music expert, do you want to talk a little bit about the music of Blueprints? And maybe why it's not discussed enough? And what makes it cool?

• 25:23Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, I, so I have discussed it on the show and have mentioned it. Trigg and Gusset are a jazz duo who recorded a really killer soundtrack for this game. And it's, you know, it's come up on, I think, on our Beans Cast a few different times. I'll talk about it and I'll play it. All that beautiful bass clarinet music. I mostly wanted to point Zach to the most recent episode of Strong Songs, which came out after he probably sent in this email, is a mailbag where someone wrote in to ask about Simon's Theme, which is the piece of music that plays whenever you go into the music room. It's this collection of three chords. It's really beautiful. And I actually went into a whole big explanation of it and talked all about, you know, how the harmony works. And it's a Trigg, I believe, is the keyboard player in that group playing it. So if you want to hear a kind of in-depth section of a Q and A of Strong Songs about

• 26:08Kirk Hamilton?

  the music, you can go check that out and we'll link it in the show notes. And I wanted to say, just to Zach's point, that he thinks the music doesn't play enough. I just, I don't think I can agree with that. One thing that I really like about Blueprints is how infrequently the music plays because when it does play, it counts for so much, especially when those really big moments happen. A cinematic is playing and the bass clarinet really comes in and it gets so dramatic. I don't know, there's so much space in this game. It's such an unusually minimalist soundtrack. I think that's what makes it special. And if it played all the time, it would maybe lose a little bit of that, as much as I do love hearing it. So I just wanted to respond to that point as well.

• 26:48Speaker 01

  It leaves you wanting more.

• 26:49Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, I agree with that. I agree 100% in like the moments of like getting in the ante chamber or like that moment when you first discover a certain, a certain room underground across the water.

• 27:03Speaker 01

  Or even just like the first time you see the credits roll, even if you don't understand the import of it, the first time you get to room 46, there's a great song that plays under the monologue and it's beautiful and it adds a lot to that entire discovery. I mean, every time there's a big song moment, it's also a big emotional moment in that game and it helps them land way more.

• 27:24Kirk Hamilton?

  And the way that the certain rooms have music, the secret garden is a piece of music that always plays, Simon's theme always plays when you go into the music room. It develops this kind of memetic quality that video games are very good at where, you know, like a Persona game, if you picture a Persona game, every single time you're hanging out, starts playing and you're like, here we are, we're hanging out in Persona. You hear that, well, I don't know, 120 times over the course of a game or something. It just builds this kind of relationship into your brain. Blueprints does the same thing and I think if the music played more often, they would probably dilute each piece a little bit and, and they wouldn't be as effective.

• 28:00Jason Schreier?

  All right, next question, Kirk.

• 28:03Kirk Hamilton?

  This comes from Caesar who writes, so I was listening to a recent episode in which Kirk mentioned a moment in his life in which he was smoking a lot of weed. I guess I'm in that moment of my life right now and thus the interest, but I swear I'll try to make this question video game related. I was wondering, what has your relationship with weed like been like through time? Have all three of you smoked it? And how did the changes in the legal scenario impact that relationship for you in the United States? I have a vague grasp of how it works in the US and I know things aren't the same in all states, but I was curious how that has been for the three of you. I'm aware it's a personal question. It's okay if you don't want to get into it. My video game question is, what are the best games to play while stoned? He mentions a few that he likes, but he wants to know what we think.

• 28:45Kirk Hamilton?

  So for starters, I mean, I don't know, we have all, we have all smoked weed in our lives.

• 28:51Speaker 01

  What?

• 28:53Speaker 01

  Kirk, how dare you say this?

• 28:55Kirk Hamilton?

  So I'll, I'll go first, I guess.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  It's also legal in all three of our respective states, I guess we should say.

• 29:00Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, but I mean, I was smoking weed when it was still illegal.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  I was trying to cover for us, man.

• 29:06Kirk Hamilton?

  It's hard to imagine a jazz musician smoking weed.

• 29:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, a jazz cigarette?

• 29:12Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, living in San Francisco and, and playing jazz saxophone. Yeah, I was everywhere. I, you know, just personally speaking, I find that it, I don't love playing video games while, after smoking weed. I don't really smoke that much anymore. It's just something that I've fallen off of over the years. I think that's common for a lot of people. It takes too much out of me. I, I become incredibly unproductive. I don't feel great for a while afterward. It just sort of like, it actually saps a lot of experiences of their specialness, I find. It used to be when I was younger, you know, you would go see a movie or something or a concert and it would be like, wow. Like it would seem really cool because I've always found that weed kind of puts me very in the moment.

• 29:56Kirk Hamilton?

  And so I'm able to just like not think about other stuff and just focus on the music or the game or the movie or whatever it is. And that's, that can be a really cool experience, but over time that has kind of diminished for me. And there are definitely downsides for me as well. And I actually find with games that my attention just wanders. Like I don't, I don't really stick with a game for a very long time. And I'll think, oh, this will be cool because this game is really beautiful looking or whatever. And then I'll play for half an hour and then be like, I want to go do something else. Where these days, you know, I, cause I very rarely, well, I guess not smoke, but consume edibles just because since it's legal, it's so easy to get edibles. But I just very rarely get high anymore. And that's a change for me since when I was younger.

• 30:39Kirk Hamilton?

  It just kind of affects me differently than it used to. Now, I mean, I prefer to play games just totally sober. I'll just, you know, play a video game and I'll find, oh, I can like really focus and just play this for three hours and it's really fun. This would not be enhanced in any way by, by marijuana. So that's my experience and those are some thoughts from me.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I I don't fully agree, but I guess that's because I don't have the same relationship to it that you two might.

• 31:08Kirk Hamilton?

  That's important to say that it affects everybody differently.

• 31:10Speaker 01

  I'm also a different human being than you two. I don't know if the listeners are aware of that. Each of us are different people with different, different experiences in life. Anyway, I

• 31:18Jason Schreier?

  Do you have a second source on that?

• 31:20Speaker 01

  No, I can't. I can't actually confirm that. You'll just have to take my word. I actually never smoked weed until I was in my mid 30s, which is maybe wild to confess, but if you put it together with the fact that I've been diagnosed with multiple mental illnesses, makes a little more sense. And I was really worried growing up. I mean, it was also not legal, but I was very concerned in my teenage years and 20s while I was like, you know, trying different cocktails of psychiatric drugs, that taking anything else could impact that. And so I was just super careful about my mental health in that era. And not like now, but you guys know what I'm saying. I was like really nervous about it. And so when I finally tried it, it was partially because I was like, I feel like I'm in a

• 32:04Speaker 01

  really good place. And like, this isn't going to destroy my life. And I would say that's still true. I'm very, I'm a very infrequent user of it, but there are certainly strains I like. And I know what you mean, Kirk, but like, I've, I'm more of an edibles person, but I've found some that for me at least make playing a video game a little more fun, not from a focused perspective, but from a meditative state perspective, like sometimes, not necessarily a difficult game, but like a game that just requires a certain level of flow state can be fun if I'm also on a certain strain. But it's just not always the place that I want to be in mentally. It's fun sometimes, but not all the time.

• 32:45Speaker 01

  I also recall describing Bloodborne as being really fun if you've had exactly one beer, just enough that you don't give a crap anymore. And I feel like there are certain kinds of edibles that give me a similar experience, especially if I'm like really struggling and frustrated. And I'm like, I just need to relax a tiny bit, then it can be useful for that. But yeah, I didn't like grow up smoking it or like have a long relationship with it. It's a new or a thing in my life.

• 33:12Jason Schreier?

  I'm trying to imagine Maddy Myers at like thirty five, smoking weed for the first time and your reaction to that.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I guess that's like funny to imagine like the first time I got high. I did it completely alone, which is probably weird, but I was like, I just don't want anyone to be here while I do this. And I did it like super medically and I was like, I'm just going to sit here and see what happens. Like just the biggest dork in the universe, but that's how I wanted to do it.

• 33:42Jason Schreier?

  Did you feel it? I feel like the first time I smoked, I didn't even feel anything.

• 33:46Speaker 01

  People always say that, that you don't, but I definitely did. Um, or I was imagining it, we'll never know.

• 33:51Jason Schreier?

  So, yeah, I mean, I, a couple of weeks ago, I wanted to get some, I also, I don't smoke a lot. I have small children, it's not, not conducive to doing drugs. And I, I haven't smoked a lot in a long time anyway, but I went to the, I wanted to get some for a trip. And so I went to the store that's like five minutes away from my house, cause there's weed stores.

• 34:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're everywhere now.

• 34:12Jason Schreier?

  In New York now, it's crazy. And I walk in and it's like this, like high tech, uh, room that feels like an Apple store and you go and you order on an iPad.

• 34:22Speaker 01

  They really do.

• 34:22Jason Schreier?

  And it's crazy. Uh, when I was in college, I smoked a lot in college at NYU and we used to order by calling up a guy who went by the name Shrek and he would come to our apartment with like, with like an ounce. And it's cheaper now than it was then, which is crazy. I mean, talk about capitalism and inflation, right? But, um, uh, uh, so gone are the days of like Shrek showing up with a couple of bags.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  Shrek overcharging you for weed, yeah.

• 34:50Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, um, it's so wild, but anyway, uh, yeah, my relationship with, I, I, we, we like, uh, smoked ourselves to like stupidity every single night back in the college days and played Guitar Hero two and Smash Brothers on N sixty four. And so I associate those games with, with smoking if, uh, to answer the question, the questionnaire, those were some of my favorite to play while stoned. Um, but nowadays it's like, uh, maybe once a year when I'm like kinda on a trip with some, some friends or something like that.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  Special occasions only.

• 35:25Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, exactly. But like, I was never the type to be like, alright, I'm gonna light up a joint and just like play some games at my computer, largely because I often will just forget what happened afterwards. And so I feel like, so, okay, I have a very, very specific memory, which is watching, I think my wife and I smoked once like seven years ago. This is how you can tell that I'd never do it anymore, that I'm remembering this one story from seven years ago. But it was when HBO's Watchmen was on, and we watched that, the first two episodes.

• 35:58Speaker 01

  Oh, you can't watch that high?

• 35:59Jason Schreier?

  And I was like, I thought, I didn't know if I had made it up, because the second episode of Watchmen, like fish are falling from the sky, or squid are falling from the sky.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  That would be like terrifying to try to watch high.

• 36:10Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, and like, the lube dude like jumps under the bench, and I was like, just thinking to myself, especially afterwards, I was like, did I just make all that up? Like, did that just really happen? And so, playing games, and then just like trying to remember them afterwards, I don't know. I also, I think for the three of us, something else that we haven't talked about, or that we haven't considered here, is that like, playing games, it's fun, but it's also part of our jobs. And so we have to be able to talk about our experiences in a kind of a lucid way. And so, this idea of just like, alright, I'm just gonna smoke and play Red Dead Redemption 2 or something, doesn't really mesh with us then having to talk about that game on a podcast, or write about that game in a coherent way, or interview the developers of it. I don't think the two really go well

• 36:54Jason Schreier?

  together. Maybe there's some people who are, who function like that, and are bigger potheads. But for me, it's more like, that was, those were my older days, those were my, my early twenties slash late teens days of like, being able to smoke all the time. And now, it's just like a once in a while thing for me, and not something that I do while playing games, really.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a great point about our jobs.

• 37:17Kirk Hamilton?

  That makes me think of two things. First of all, one is that actually, yeah, when I was younger, I mean, I certainly smoked more weed and would forget games, but I kind of liked it because I liked replaying games and I would remember some of it, but then I'd replay it and it would be kind of like I knew.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  It's kind of endearing, saving a lot of money, not on weed, but on games.

• 37:34Kirk Hamilton?

  You know what we'll say, like, I wish I could forget Oberdin and then play it again. It's like, well.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  Well, did you play it really high?

• 37:41Kirk Hamilton?

  That also makes me think of, I have a very similar relationship with music where, you know, a lot of the weed I encountered in San Francisco and when I was a gigging musician was just with other players. I first smoked in music school with other jazz musicians and it's very conducive to a kind of loose openness that allows for improvisation. There's definitely a reason that music and weed are so closely intertwined, like the two things go very well together. But I did find as a professional musician that it was a similar thing where it's fun if you're just jamming and messing around and you kind of want to loosen up and let yourself just go on flights of fancy. But if you're actually on a gig, if you're working or you need to really kind of get it done, for me at least, it's not the thing. And again, everyone is different.

• 38:23Kirk Hamilton?

  I've definitely known people who are much more functional or who actually, you know, work better after smoking. So it really just sort of varies depending on the person.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've seen that too. And like, I, as a person with an ADHD diagnosis, it doesn't have this effect for me, but I certainly know people who are like, it helps make me more focused. And I'm like, power to you. Like, if it's something that is actually helping you, great. And there are many other benefits to it for pain. We don't need to lecture everybody about all the other medical benefits, but it's actually a really great thing in my view that legalization is finally happening. It never should have been as criminalized as it was. And it's largely harmless in a lot of ways. And like, a lot of the things that I believed about it as a kid turned out not to be true. So that's been kind of a relief to 30 something Maddie to like, see it get legalized more and also studied more and for more people

• 39:18Speaker 01

  to be like, oh, this is actually something that really helps me with chronic pain or focus or anxiety or whatever other thing it just so happens to hit for you on.

• 39:29Jason Schreier?

  Cool. Let's slip in one last question. Maddie, read this one.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  Sure. This one is from Parker, who writes, "My nine-year-old has gotten into listening to the pod on the way to and from school, and he wanted me to send this burning question after listening to the most recent questions episode. Do you think everyone is excited for Mario Kart Worlds because there are 24 racers now, or because of the open world map?" And again, that's from Beckett, who's nine. Great question.

• 39:56Kirk Hamilton?

  Great question, Beckett.

• 39:58Speaker 01

  Those are the only two options, right?

• 40:00Kirk Hamilton?

  This is a leading question, Beckett. What did I have to explain to you what a leading question is?

• 40:05Speaker 01

  Right, because it could actually be other things that people are excited for. I do feel like Beckett is getting at some of the tension of what's exciting about Mario Kart World, though, which is like the single-player experience versus the competitive experience, though, right? Like, those are kind of two different reasons why somebody might play Mario Kart.

• 40:24Kirk Hamilton?

  Well, yes, and it's also a leading question on a more fundamental level, which is that it begins, "Do you think everyone is excited for Mario Kart World?"

• 40:30Speaker 01

  That's true. What? What do you mean, "everyone is"?

• 40:34Jason Schreier?

  Okay, I'm just gonna answer Beckett's question. It's because of the 24 racers, okay? That's the answer.

• 40:40Speaker 01

  That's it. Yeah, that's the answer.

• 40:41Kirk Hamilton?

  Straightforward. Nice and simple.

• 40:43Speaker 01

  Well, I disagree. I think it's the open world map.

• 40:46Jason Schreier?

  Beckett, thank you so much for listening to our show.

• 40:48Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, man. Thanks so much.

• 40:50Jason Schreier?

  All right, kiddos. Let's take a break, and then we'll be back for one more thing. Once again, thank you to everyone who sent in questions. We will be right back.

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• 42:21Jason Schreier?

  And we are back. Kirk, Matty, it is time for one more thing. I'm gonna go first. I got a game that I can't stop playing, you guys. I'm so excited to talk about this game. My one more thing is Fantasy Life I: The Girl Who Steals Time. You know, the sequel to Fantasy Life, Fantasy Life I. Yes, I've heard all about it. Yeah. So this is a game that I think might be best described as a cross between Zelda and Animal Crossing. And it's hard to encapsulate it all in a pithy description, but I will do my best. This is a game where there are a lot of different components. The kind of, the, the main premise is that you,

• 43:04Jason Schreier?

  as this kind of create your own character, a little chibi cartoonish character sprite, get to inhabit one of 15 lives. And a life is essentially like a job or a class within this game. And so it could be anything from a fighter job, fighter life, like Paladin and Mercenary and Hunter, to a crafting life, like blacksmith and tailor, to a gathering life, like lumberjack, woodcutter and miner and stuff like that. And each of these lives, you have like a skill tree and quests and a whole kind of life to play out. So when you're fighting, you'll be leveling up and doing quests

• 43:48Jason Schreier?

  for your fighting, like one of your fighting classes. And then if you see a tree while you're out in the world, you can go and chop it down, doing a little tree chopping mini game. And then if you get back to a workbench, you can craft some armor using your blacksmithing mini game. And these mini games are essentially just like pressing buttons at the right time and a little bit more involved than that, but very simple, kind of lo-fi stuff. Then on top of that, you have all these other aspects of the game. So there's a story and the story mostly involves hopping back and forth through time while you just like go on various quests to find MacGuffins and like um help solve people's problems um through these kind of like action RPG overworlds and dungeons that are is kind of where the Zelda comes into it.

• 44:32Jason Schreier?

  Then there's also a town building aspect to it where you can go back to your base and you can build up an entire town full of people. You can collect buddies over the course of the game who you bring into your town and you can do quests for them and you can build them houses and you can plant farms and you can um build furniture and deck out your house and expand your house and all that other kind of good Animal Crossing stuff. And then on top of all that, there is this massive open world where you go around and you solve shrines and unlock maps through towers and fight monsters and solve mini games and look for like uh I think they're called leafies, which is this game's equivalent to carracks uh which are buried in the ground.

• 45:14Jason Schreier?

  And you explore this massive open world that is almost entirely optional. Um and so you playing this game just kind of like navigate between these things. And this game is basically about watching numbers go up. It's a game about grinding. It's a game about like the satisfaction of fulfilling fulfilling like little accomplishments. Which usually, I mean, it's a it's a high barrier for me to get into one of those games. Um it's very much like a cozy game. That's how I would best describe it. But this one, for some reason, it's really clicked with me and I've become addicted to it. I've been playing it just nonstop over the last couple of weeks.

• 45:51Jason Schreier?

  It is the perfect, perfect, perfect game to play on your handheld device while watching TV. There is nothing better than like zoning out. My wife and I have been watching some shows over the last couple of weeks. I think one of one of our shows might be my next one more thing or will be a future one more thing. But we've been watching some shows and uh there's nothing better than just like doing menial tasks in in uh Fantasy Life I and just kind of watching your bars go up and getting in that satisfying loop of like um going out and chopping down wood. And finding the best trees and successfully chopping them and then bringing back that lumber to then make stuff at the workbench and then using it to fight monsters that are stronger than you and going through that whole loop while doing other things.

• 46:34Jason Schreier?

  It is, it is perfect for playing while doing other things. I don't know if I would enjoy it quite as much if I was just like only had to focus on fantasy life, but to have something to do, just like to watch the numbers go up and watch the bars get filled while you're watching TV or sports or whatever. Just superb, impeccable.

• 46:52Kirk Hamilton?

  I have one question. The classes are all happening simultaneously. So is it just like you fight something and you get fighter points? You cut down a tree, you get tree chopper points.

• 47:03Jason Schreier?

  So good question. Okay. So no. So for the fighting part of it, you have, you have to balance your kind of fighting classes. So whatever fighting class you're doing, you will get experience for that class.

• 47:14Kirk Hamilton?

  So is it like you equip a class, like you go into a pause menu and then you choose that class and it becomes active for you?

• 47:19Jason Schreier?

  Well, for, for those, so, so hear me out. So for the fighting classes, that's the one kind of where you have to equip the right one for the combat encounter, because whatever you have is kind of like equipped. That's what you will get into while fighting and that's where all the experience will go. And that's where you'll like fulfill the quest requirements and whatnot. So, and, and I should say, so there's like levels and then there's also your kind of your quests that you have to fulfill to rank up your, your life. And those are two different meters that you're worried about. So one is like you're leveling up to level 20, level 30, level 40, et cetera, et cetera. The other one is, okay, I want to get my Paladin life from fledgling to apprentice to adept to expert.

• 47:59Kirk Hamilton?

  Your level is sort of outside of your life, which are basically your subclasses.

• 48:03Jason Schreier?

  No, no, no, no. The levels are also per each life. It's just that each life has two of those meters that you're filling out. Lots of meters to fill up in this.

• 48:12Speaker 01

  But that's the upside is the meters, you see.

• 48:14Kirk Hamilton?

  Exactly. To watch them fill.

• 48:16Jason Schreier?

  We watch those numbers go up. So when you're fighting, you, you can only use one of those classes, one of the fighting classes. But then if you're out in the world and you see a tree, you go up to the tree, you'll switch to woodcutter automatically. You see some ore, you'll switch to mining. You see a fish, you can switch to fishing automatically. And then when you're at the workbench, you can just choose whichever like job you want to do from the menu. Like you basically have access to all these, these hundreds of recipes that you've accumulated. And some of them will be for each class and it'll be like, you are now doing the cook. You are now doing the tailor. You are now doing the optimist, whatever it is. So it's all very seamless. Um, the UI is, is pretty smart and um, it all is, is good. It's all streamlined and makes sense and you can fast travel.

• 48:58Jason Schreier?

  You can fast travel um, like to workbenches or like to the kind of the expert assigned to each of these lives. Where you can go and turn in your quests and level up and stuff like that.

• 49:10Jason Schreier?

  And yeah, man, it's, it's very addictive. It's very, uh, very charming game, very fun game. There's a whole story and the story is kind of like whatever, but it's just fun to watch unfold and, and charming and cutesy. And the, the art is very cool and fun and cartoony and um, the fact, I mean, just to put this in perspective, by the way, the scale of this game, this would feel like a complete like satisfying game, even without this section ginorm- ginormacy. I think it's called, which is like, that's the Breath of the Wild section. And then so on top of this like fully fledged game, you have a whole hundred hour open world that you could just wander around and explore for like endless, endless amounts of time. So this is a sprawling game. This is not for the faint of heart.

• 49:54Jason Schreier?

  This is not a game for like people who are like, I just want a game to play for one hour a night and have a satisfying experience with it. This is a game for, you're watching a lot of TV with your partner and you want something to do while watching. You like multitasking and you want to play something while watching TV. You're listening to podcasts or something. The perfect podcast game. You listen to Triple Cook every week. You want a game to play during it. Fantasy Life High is the way to go. Yeah, I'm hooked. I'm hooked.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  This is like a whole genre of game. I completely understand what you're talking about.

• 50:21Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, Matty, it seems very much since you were so into Fields of Mysteria, I feel like you will be into, you would be into this.

• 50:28Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. It seems like I would like it and also like my wife would like it too. Cause we both play games in the exact way you're describing.

• 50:36Jason Schreier?

  Yep. And I think that like, unlike, I think that a lot of these farming games um, don't have the combat component. The combat component, um, at least for me, helps me get more into it than just like a Stardust Valley or an Animal Crossing.

• 50:49Speaker 01

  There's a little bit of that in Fields of Mysteria, which is part of what I liked about it, but it's not a lot. This sounds like it has way more and that would be fun.

• 50:55Jason Schreier?

  I think you will really enjoy it and I think Dina will too. Uh, all right, Maddie, what's your warmer thing?

• 51:01Speaker 01

  Well, it's very related because this is an object that has entered my household that has made it even easier to play games with a handheld device on the couch, which is an activity that Dean and I do all the time. And you know what? The Steam Deck's kind of heavy. I'll say it. You're holding it up in your hands for a while. Maybe you're not sitting very ergonomically. Maybe over time, you're like, why does my entire body hurt? And it's because you've been sitting in a stupid position, watching television, and playing your Steam Deck for several hours. And there is this, this gaming pillow that Dina and I now both have. We both have this. She bought these this week and it is life-changing.

• 51:43Speaker 01

  I'm already recommending it because, so it's like this little beanbag.

• 51:47Jason Schreier?

  This is not a sponsored segment, by the way.

• 51:49Speaker 01

  Not a sponsor. I, if you could go get one of these.

• 51:52Kirk Hamilton?

  Forever. I think I saw one of these on Reset Era and I was like, oh, I can see how great that would be. So I'm glad, I'm excited to hear about it.

• 51:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. So like, here's how it works. Um, it's by, it's by this company called Mechanism that is actually based in Portland, Oregon. It's just two people. I kind of wanted to shout them out because they seem like a cute little company.

• 52:09Jason Schreier?

  Come to our live show.

• 52:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, they should come to our live show if they're listening, for all we know they are. But there are many, many other gaming pillows online and I've considered buying them for like a year and a half because of this problem that we both have had. And eventually Dina took the plunge, did the research, got us both one of these. So it's basically like a little spherical beanbag that is like, I, I don't know. It's the size of a bread box and you can just put that little beanbag in your lap. And now that would be enough on its own. You could just kind of rest the Steam Deck or whatever you're using on the beanbag. You're already in an ergonomically better position. You could just do this with a regular pillow and you'd be better off, honestly. But what this pillow has is this kind of hinged piece of plastic

• 52:53Speaker 01

  that is like a lever that's kind of like the monitor arms that I have installed, where I can like adjust the height of my monitor. And that's attached to the top of the beanbag, which is kind of like flat, almost like those beanbag TV trays, if you ever had one of those that you'd like put in your lap. And that hinged kind of. Lever, you can put your Steam Deck on and it comes with a variety of attachments. They don't have a Switch 2 attachment yet sadly, I'm gonna get one when they do. But they have other ones. So if you wanted to, you could put your phone. You could play with the Switch 2 mouse on this thing if you wanted to. And they also, you can just put a controller on there if you want. Like if you're just tired of like holding up a controller or you have one that's particularly heavy, you can use it for that. And it's just great.

• 53:38Speaker 01

  And also you can really sit in a variety of positions with this pillow because it's not that big. And because it's a beanbag, it's pretty malleable. So you can like sit cross-legged or like sit with one leg up on the coffee table or whatever. And it's been amazing. I can already tell that I'm helping my neck. Possibly not going to destroy my poor body by gaming, by using this freaking gaming pillow.

• 54:02Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, I've thought about getting one of these for a while because I totally get the thing where my pinkies start to fall asleep. If I hold the controller.

• 54:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's the back of your hands that are the problem because they are holding it all the way.

• 54:11Kirk Hamilton?

  Well, there's that nerve that runs up your arm. I'm looking at the video or I'm looking at their website and there are some very funny videos. I have to think this might be the founder in these videos. There's one where he's just smashing himself in the face with it and then he looks at the camera like, whoa. Like it's very sad. And then he's got his phone mounted under the Steam Deck with a YouTube playthrough, like a walkthrough or something.

• 54:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a little much for me, but you could do like your phone and the Steam Deck all in the same thing.

• 54:37Kirk Hamilton?

  No, I mean, no, I'm saying that. I think that's a really smart use. You can put your phone right there and like hit the walkthrough, like if you're trying to solve a puzzle or something. There have totally been times, I remember when I was playing Destiny where I would be trying to get to some weird thing to unlock some item. And I'd have to watch some tutorial and it'd be very nice to have the screens right next to each other. So anyways, it seems like a...

• 54:57Speaker 01

  It's so luxurious.

• 54:58Jason Schreier?

  The ultimate multitasking would be to have, have your, your Steam Deck and then your phone under it. And then also the TV on in the background.

• 55:05Speaker 01

  Well, that's basically how Gina and I are living our lives. I, it is, it is an absurd... It's an absurd way to live my life. I feel like I'm admitting to something forbidden by even acknowledging that we purchased gaming pillows. Like, it doesn't even sound real. It's so silly. But you know what? It's really helping my body not get-

• 55:25Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, man, ergonomics. Ergonomics are worth it.

• 55:28Speaker 01

  Messed up from a dumb thing I was doing. So if it helps any of the listeners, great. Get a gaming pillow. It doesn't have to be from Mechanism. That's the company where we got ours. Again, not sponsored. We purchased these with our own money. But just use a pillow. Don't screw yourself up.

• 55:45Kirk Hamilton?

  Kirk, what's your one more thing? My one more thing is a book that I finished a couple of weeks ago that I really loved that I wanted to shout out. It is called Burnham Wood. It came out in 2023. It's published by The New Zealander author Eleanor Catton. This is an awesome book that I'm not going to say too much about because one of the really cool things about it is how it kind of morphs and changes over the course of reading it. I'd describe it as a kind of a personal drama slash thriller. It's a book that begins one way and then changes in a very sort of abrupt but also surprising way over the course of it. The basic narrative

• 56:27Kirk Hamilton?

  setup is it is about a group of activists who live in or around Christchurch in New Zealand. They're called Burnham Wood, which of course is a Macbeth reference. And they're kind of like a guerrilla gardening collective. So they're a bunch of young people. They're in their twenties. They're kind of like a mix of different types where they all got out of school and they wanted to do something to change the world, like to be an activist, to like help make the world better. And they all kind of came together around this idea of unused space and, you know, a kind of green revolution where if we can just plant more crops and plants in all of this land that's just sort of sitting untended, we could have so much more food, we could use the land so much more responsibly. So it's

• 57:10Kirk Hamilton?

  this kind of loose mix of a bunch of different types of people, you know, hardcore anarchists or people who are kind of more establishment or want to turn Burnham Wood into a real nonprofit that can, you know, become financially sustainable and like people who totally don't want that at all. And that's kind of where things start. And then, over the course of the first couple of chapters, the two kind of main characters, or two women named Mira and Shelley. Mira, kind of the charismatic leader of Burnham Wood, and Shelley, the kind of, the one who makes it all work, but is also kind of always seen as the follower. She's always been sort of in Mira's shadow a little bit. Mira is very much the dazzling leader.

• 57:52Kirk Hamilton?

  And the two of them are kind of, at this really interesting point in their relationship, where Shelley's thinking of leaving Burnham Wood, and Mira is like, kind of lost in her own deceptions and sort of not, I don't know. The characters are very, very well drawn in this story. So they are at this very interesting place, and Burnham Wood is kind of on the precipice, and maybe is even gonna stop working. And then, they come across this billionaire. And the billionaire has turned up at a sort of a farm that's maybe three hours out of Christchurch, it's in a place called Thorndike. And he is in the process of, he says, buying this farm so that he can build one of those billionaire bunkers. Like, these billionaires like to build, where they can ride out the end of the world.

• 58:36Kirk Hamilton?

  So he's doing this like hush, hush deal to buy the land, and he's gonna build this bunker. The truth is more complicated than that, and it's very quickly revealed that there's something much more nefarious going on than just that. But basically, this activist organization comes into the orbit of this billionaire, and these two women, and then their friend, Tony, who's the kind of, the final character, are all just sort of bouncing around in this increasingly volatile situation, revolving around this farm outside of Thorndike, as this billionaire, you know, is working his machinations, and Burnham Wood is kind of getting in increasingly over its head. And I won't say any more than that, but to just recommend the book itself, I think Caton

• 59:21Kirk Hamilton?

  is a really amazing writer. I haven't read a book quite like this in a while, where she is so merciless with her characters, and yet also so understanding of them. I read a review of this, where they described her as "holding her characters up to the light to alternately illuminate and roast them," which I think is perfect. There are so many times where characters just feel completely believable. At one minute, they'll just be ranting about the state of things, and climate change, and billionaires, and, you know... Selling out and the path to progress and how radical we really need to be to bring about change. And then the next minute, they'll just be having like the most venal, self-interested thoughts. And, and she is just totally fearless about really revealing

• 1:00:06Kirk Hamilton?

  things that they don't even realize about themselves. Like she, she takes this omniscient view into her characters that goes deeper than most books that I have read, or certainly books that I've read recently. And that makes for, I think, a really engrossing read. And then as things begin to spiral out of control, it also becomes quite scary because the characters feel so believable, you can really see yourself having some of the thoughts that they have in the more intense moments in the book. And then you start to feel like you're really kind of there in a way that feels both dreamlike and surreal, but also very real and frightening. So it's just a book with layers. It's, it's really something else. And I really recommend reading the whole thing. You gotta read the whole thing to get the, the full idea of it. But I wholeheartedly recommend it. I had a great time reading it.

• 1:00:51Kirk Hamilton?

  One of the most surprising and interesting books I've read in a while. So that is called Burnham Wood. It's by Eleanor Catton. A great book.

• 1:00:58Speaker 01

  Hmm. Great pitch.

• 1:00:59Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, this was on a lot of, a lot of lists when it came out a couple of years.

• 1:01:03Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, it won a ton of awards.

• 1:01:04Jason Schreier?

  Very, very much acclaimed. Cool. Awesome. Alrighty. That is that for this week's episode. Kirk, Maddie, I'll see you both real soon. And hopefully we'll see many of you listeners out there, at least a few hundred, we're expecting to see on Friday night. And yeah, it should be fun. For the rest of you, we'll see you next week with our live show audio. And then, oh, we forgot to say, we're taking a break the week after that. So we'll be back with our next non-live episode at the end of July.

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:37Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah. I will see both of you on stage.

• 1:01:40Speaker 01

  Woo.

• 1:01:40Jason Schreier?

  See you Friday.

• 1:01:43Speaker 01

  Bye.

• 1:01:46Kirk Hamilton?

  Triple Click is produced by Jason Schreier, Maddy Myers, and me, Kirk Hamilton. I edit and mix the show and also wrote our theme music. Our show art is by Tom DJ. Some of the games and products we talked about on this episode may have been sent to us for free for review consideration. You can find a link to our ethics policy in the show notes. Triple Click is a proud member of the Maximum Fun Podcast Network, and if you like our show, we hope you'll consider supporting us by becoming a member at maximumfun.org/join. Find us on Twitter at TripleClickPod, send email to tripleclickatmaximumfun.org, and find a link to our Discord in the show notes. Thanks for listening. See you next time.

• 1:02:44Jason Schreier?

  Maximum Fun. A worker-owned network. Of artist-owned shows. Supported. Directly. By you.