Cynthia Erivo

Cynthia Erivo (Wicked, Harriet, The Color Purple) is an award-winning actor and singer. Cynthia joins the Armchair Expert to discuss the vibes of South London, how she feels about people calling her cute, and her desire to connect with the audience when she’s on stage. Cynthia and Dax talk about the differences in acting in dramas vs comedies, the burdens of doing political roles, and why she picked extensive makeup over CGI for Wicked. Cynthia explains if she prefers songs led by lyrics or music, how she experiences synesthesia, and how much she loves Ariana Grande. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ http://www.wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by Lily Padman.

• 0:04Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 0:06Dax Shepard?

  We have the great privilege of seeing Wicked early.

• 0:10Speaker 01

  What a dream.

• 0:12Dax Shepard?

  And our guest today, Cynthia Erivo, is so dynamic and so powerful and so infectious and intoxicating and euphoria inducing.

• 0:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:23Dax Shepard?

  I fell so in love with her in this movie.

• 0:24Speaker 01

  She's so good, so good in the movie. She's such a cool person. She's also like, she just hosted the CFDA Awards. That's a huge fashion thing. She's very cool.

• 0:35Dax Shepard?

  And then she arrived and she overdelivered. You have seen her in Harriet, Windows, Bad Times at El Royale, The Color Purple on Broadway. She's won all the awards and of course, November 22nd, just in time for the big Turkey Day, Wicked. You're gonna want to run out and see it. Buy your tickets now. Preorder. If you didn't preorder a month ago, you should already be panicked.

• 0:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, panic.

• 0:57Dax Shepard?

  Please enjoy Cynthia Erivo. We get support from Quince.

• 1:02Speaker 01

  Okay, can we talk about the fact that the holidays are already here? It's crazy. I feel like I blinked and now we're in gifting season, which I'm not really mad about because I do love giving gifts and Quince is making it so easy to find something great for everyone on my list, including myself, because let's be honest, self-gifting is a love language.

• 1:21Dax Shepard?

  Quince is seriously the gift that keeps on giving. Their high-quality staples are made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, 14-karat gold, and Italian leather. Full-on luxury quality at prices that won't wreck your holiday budget.

• 1:37Speaker 01

  It's the dream. The cashmere sweater, starting at $60, down jackets, wool outerwear, cashmere accessories. You and everyone on your list are staying cozy and looking incredible all season long.

• 1:48Dax Shepard?

  Well, I'm gonna tell you this, it just got chilly for the first time this year in California and I'm so excited and I'm wearing my Quince cashmere right now.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  It's great.

• 1:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and I am going to gift this to some of my friends. I hope they're not listening.

• 2:00Speaker 01

  Quince is also more than clothing. They've got fine jewelry for your significant other, leather bags for your bestie, hotel-quality bedding to set up your guest rooms, chef-grade cookware. That's an Amazing thing they offer here and it's such a good gift because people don't like buying cookware for themselves, but it's very important. And they also have five star luggage, another good gift that people don't like buying for themselves.

• 2:22Dax Shepard?

  Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Armchair Expert. It's the best way to support the show. We get support from Quince. Okay, so I have a confession. I'm the worst holiday shopper on the planet. I wait until the last possible second, I panic, and then I end up buying something nobody wants. But this year I've cracked the code and the code is cozy. And Quince's bedding makes it so easy because the quality is exceptional. It's the kind of gift people actually use and love long after the holidays.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  Yes. Okay. Can we talk about their European linens?

• 3:09Dax Shepard?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  Because Quince's 100% European linen gets softer with every wash. Most bedding peaks the day you buy it and then it's all downhill. This is the opposite. And their organic cotton bedding is breathable and incredibly soft. It's hotel quality comfort for your own bed.

• 3:24Dax Shepard?

  You crawl into bed and you're like, wait, did I accidentally check into a Four Seasons? Quince just makes it easy to create a bed you'll actually look forward to getting into. And their quilts, coverlets, and duvet inserts make any bed and any gift feel complete.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  Everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you can get and give luxury quality pieces without the luxury price tag.

• 3:49Dax Shepard?

  I mean, guys, I put these on the bed of my children. They are wrapping my little babies and I feel great about it.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  Mine are striped. They're so cute. They're very fashionable and very comfortable. And it's not just bedding. Quince has everyone on your list covered with Mongolian cashmere sweaters, fine jewelry, leather bags, chef-grade cookware, five-star luggage, and more.

• 4:09Dax Shepard?

  Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks you where you heard about them, let them know it was Armchair Expert. It's the best way to support the show.

• 4:46Speaker 02

  How long have you been doing this?

• 4:48Speaker 01

  We launched in February of 2018. Almost seven years.

• 4:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're many people's favorite.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you. We try to do the opposite of clickbaity. Even talk shows, which we love, you just go in and you do your thing and then you get out and there's no context and things blow up. Trying to sort of be the antidote to that.

• 5:09Speaker 02

  Thank you for doing that.

• 5:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, of course. I mean, for us too. Things get so out of control.

• 5:14Speaker 02

  Yes, they do.

• 5:15Speaker 01

  Getting worse by the second. I don't...

• 5:17Speaker 02

  I don't know what the heck is happening. People are seeking out the worst of things. It's very strange.

• 5:24Speaker 01

  It's a little bit of a, we say like outrage addiction.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, and really unhealthy.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  It is. We're in a sort of an interesting time where I feel like celebrities, especially newer celebrities, are starting to push back and like question fandom in a really interesting way.

• 5:43Speaker 02

  It's like where the boundary is.

• 5:44Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 5:45Speaker 02

  Where you get to be a part of my life and then when I get to have my life for myself.

• 5:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, that you're a person.

• 5:51Speaker 02

  It's like reminding people that humanity exists.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:55Speaker 02

  You can be a human being.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  Exactly. It's sad that we have to remind people, but...

• 6:01Speaker 03

  Good morning.

• 6:02Speaker 02

  Good morning.

• 6:04Speaker 03

  Do it, do it.

• 6:06Speaker 04

  Oh, man. Oh, you smell so good. God, I smell like sweat. I just went on a hike.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  Well done.

• 6:13Speaker 04

  Oh, thank you. Well, this is a long time coming. Oh, my goodness.

• 6:19Speaker 03

  You're a miniature too.

• 6:20Speaker 04

  You are a miniature.

• 6:22Speaker 03

  You're in good company. Bonnie, are you jealous? She has even bigger pants on than you.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  I know. Her fashion's unreal.

• 6:30Speaker 03

  I'm Gax, by the way.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  Nice to meet you. You, welcome.

• 6:35Speaker 03

  We've already talked about bags. The fashion is outrageous.

• 6:39Dax Shepard?

  Do you want to sit down for two seconds? Because I don't have the knowledge base to talk about what I thought was really funny while I was researching. Hit it, Alicia. For one second.

• 6:48Speaker 03

  I try to tell him all the time that he only has some of the info.

• 6:51Dax Shepard?

  OK, Cynthia, I was watching an interview with you and you had mentioned that you were about to do some Somheim. And Kristen was readying herself for the day.

• 6:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:00Dax Shepard?

  And she stopped everything. She's like, who is she playing? What's happening?

• 7:04Speaker 03

  Well, specifically because it was night music, which is my favorite. Who did you play?

• 7:08Speaker 02

  Petra.

• 7:09Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 7:11Dax Shepard?

  Do you want to air your grievance?

• 7:12Speaker 03

  Well, my grievance was I was really struggling to figure out who you were going to play. Because I was like, you have the moxie for Desiree, though you're not anywhere near.

• 7:23Speaker 02

  Near the age for it.

• 7:24Speaker 03

  Right.

• 7:25Dax Shepard?

  So your grievance, as I recalled, was you only played the child in that. Is that the same musical?

• 7:31Speaker 03

  Yes. So I've done night music twice. I did it at the Kennedy Center during Somheim Rep a million years ago. And then I did it at the L.A. Opera House.

• 7:39Speaker 02

  That's cool.

• 7:40Speaker 03

  But both times I played Frederica.

• 7:44Speaker 02

  What?

• 7:45Dax Shepard?

  Who's 13?

• 7:45Speaker 03

  Who's 13 years old. The whole time, I dream of playing Anne.

• 7:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, Anne's phenomenal.

• 7:51Dax Shepard?

  Well, now's your chance.

• 7:52Speaker 03

  Go, go.

• 7:53Dax Shepard?

  Go.

• 7:53Speaker 03

  What you.

• 7:54Dax Shepard?

  Sing off.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  Now, as the sweet and facility stumbled so lavishly onto her lap.

• 7:58Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 7:58Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 7:58Speaker 03

  But here's the thing. Dax informed me pretty bluntly this morning.

• 8:02Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 8:03Speaker 03

  I can't pull off Anne either. He said, you're way more of a Desiree. I said, what do you know?

• 8:07Dax Shepard?

  First of all, I didn't say that because I don't know the names of the characters.

• 8:10Speaker 03

  And we need context.

• 8:11Dax Shepard?

  You are closer in age. This is bad news, I'm going to tell you. You're closer in age to 63 than you are 24.

• 8:18Speaker 02

  True.

• 8:19Dax Shepard?

  I said, now, look, you could put on a ton of makeup and play 24. They could do some prosthetics and age you down. Or you could go out on stage with no makeup and you'd be playing 64.

• 8:31Speaker 03

  Can you believe?

• 8:33Speaker 02

  I'm offended for you.

• 8:37Dax Shepard?

  It's ludicrous. That's why I say it, because obviously she's a beauty.

• 8:41Speaker 02

  It's like you aged backwards. It's very strange. It's a good joke because it's absolutely the most untrue thing in the world. I think you could still play Anne. I couldn't pull off Anne at all. Petra was perfect.

• 8:51Speaker 03

  Wait, what's Petra's solos?

• 8:53Speaker 02

  The Miller Sun.

• 8:53Speaker 03

  Oh, I don't know. Oh, yeah.

• 8:56Dax Shepard?

  You've already done it, or you're about to do it?

• 8:58Speaker 02

  I did it at Lincoln Center.

• 9:00Dax Shepard?

  Oh, it was a one-off?

• 9:01Speaker 03

  Now I'm serious.

• 9:01Speaker 02

  Well, four nights.

• 9:03Dax Shepard?

  Did you want for more, or were you happy it was only four nights?

• 9:05Speaker 02

  I was happy it was only four nights because it was manic. I was doing 59 other things at the same time. On one day, I opened something in the morning, did something in the afternoon, which was like a full 20-minute set show for Pride Weekend, and ran from the Pride Weekend show to the Lincoln Center. That's right, to do night music.

• 9:24Speaker 03

  And that's a dangerous song if your head is not straight. It is such a wordy song.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  There was actually a night where I had to stop because it's also dangerous if you're not moving at the right speed. If it slows down too much, your brain switches on. It's one of those songs that you need your brain to be on autopilot, so you can actually just reel the words off. And if it slows down, and it felt like it was slowing to a grinding halt, it's like that weird sort of, oh, my god, I'm in the room. What are the words again?

• 9:54Speaker 03

  There's too many words in that song.

• 9:56Speaker 02

  And I just was like, okay, we have to stop. I am a big, big advocate for if it's going wrong, stop.

• 10:03Dax Shepard?

  Interesting, because I was just gonna ask, do you have a mode where you'll just, you know the melody still, and just kind of make up some words until we find our way back?

• 10:11Speaker 02

  We're not gonna do a car crash. I can't. I'm gonna say, you know what? I'm gonna pull over to the side of the road.

• 10:16Speaker 03

  That's great.

• 10:17Speaker 02

  We're gonna just start again. Let's get back into the right space, and I'm gonna take you exactly where you're supposed to go in the right fashion. We're not focused here.

• 10:25Dax Shepard?

  Let's regroup.

• 10:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're swerving too much here. It's not good.

• 10:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, we're all over the road.

• 10:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:29Speaker 03

  That's not what, at least I was taught in musical the, it's like, keep it going.

• 10:34Speaker 02

  And it's the wrong thing to be taught. Sometimes you keep going. Sometimes, if you can, and you can get back into it quickly, keep going. But if you need to stop and refocus, stop and refocus because the audience will say, oh, you know it too. You were experiencing it too. Okay, so I wasn't insane. That means you're taking care of me. I can trust you.

• 10:53Dax Shepard?

  What you're saying is, I'm not gonna gaslight you, audience. This is all fucked up.

• 10:57Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 10:58Dax Shepard?

  I'm not gonna lie to you.

• 11:00Speaker 02

  And this is not what I want to do. This is not what you want to listen to. We're gonna go back to the beginning. It also says that I'm in control of this and I've got you.

• 11:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 11:08Speaker 02

  I won't take you down this road where it doesn't make sense.

• 11:11Dax Shepard?

  What if you win so far as saying, I want everyone to re-enter. Go out in the lobby and know about, we're gonna ring the bell.

• 11:17Speaker 02

  That's too far.

• 11:18Dax Shepard?

  Then come in.

• 11:19Speaker 02

  Maybe too far.

• 11:20Dax Shepard?

  Okay, just to be provocative for one second.

• 11:22Speaker 02

  Go on, one second.

• 11:23Dax Shepard?

  For two hours. Did you see American Symphony, the John Baptiste documentary?

• 11:29Speaker 02

  Yes, I did.

• 11:30Dax Shepard?

  What a beautiful doc, right?

• 11:32Speaker 02

  Beautiful.

• 11:32Dax Shepard?

  But if you remember, he's at Carnegie Hall and all the power goes out.

• 11:35Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 11:35Dax Shepard?

  And he's fucked. I can't imagine anything more stressful. And then talk about 27 things going on in his life. He's got the Grammys, his wife. And then he starts letting his internal emotions come out on this piano keyboard. And he's processing this frustration and this everything. And then slowly it starts fusing with this melody. And then it becomes beautiful. And then magically the power comes back on. There is also some room for the chaos if embraced to become something unique and interesting.

• 12:07Speaker 02

  However, what he didn't do was continue on with what was already pre-planned. What he did was start something totally new.

• 12:15Dax Shepard?

  You've won that. Checkmate.

• 12:16Speaker 02

  You see what I'm saying?

• 12:17Dax Shepard?

  Great counter.

• 12:17Speaker 02

  Which means that he was completely in control of the situation. He said, what we were planning, out the window. There's no power, I can't do this. And then just let me filter whatever I can filter through in the present moment.

• 12:29Dax Shepard?

  Well, listen, I just wanted to bring Kristen in because the whole house was a flutter today. Now Kristen's in, she believes this ruse. Mysteriously, our 11-year-old had an emotional fit this morning that precluded her from going to school on time because she knew somebody was coming to the house at 11.

• 12:45Speaker 03

  Is she here?

• 12:46Dax Shepard?

  No, we had to send her.

• 12:48Speaker 03

  I fell for it, hook, line and sinker. I was like, oh, she's having a swing. Okay, we're gonna let her regulate. I'm gonna stand back. I'm gonna let her get it all out. She's crying, the whole nine yards. We finally calmed down on the ride to school. She goes, is Cynthia the 11 a.m. or the 2 p.m.? That's what she said.

• 13:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. I had a feeling you guys were gonna keep them home from school today.

• 13:08Speaker 03

  I used my optimistic outlook. I said, This will not be the last time.

• 13:11Speaker 02

  It won't.

• 13:12Speaker 03

  We're gonna double date. There's gonna be some other time where you will be able to be in her presence.

• 13:16Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 13:17Speaker 03

  And say what she means to you, because you mean quite a bit to her.

• 13:20Dax Shepard?

  But hon, if Brad Pitt was coming over to clean the pool at 11 a.m. and I mysteriously couldn't make my appointment at 10, you would go immediately, this is horseshit. He just wants to watch Brad Pitt clean our pool.

• 13:30Speaker 03

  That's true, but I immediately take on their emotions. She started to get dysregulated and then I started to get dysregulated. And I was like chugging coffee to wake up, be like, how do we calm everybody down this morning? Then I called your sister to take the other one in.

• 13:42Dax Shepard?

  And I was evil Oz upstairs journaling.

• 13:44Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 13:44Dax Shepard?

  And I was listening to all the machinations and I was like, this is horseshit, but it's gonna work.

• 13:47Speaker 03

  I didn't even realize until really this moment what was pulled over.

• 13:52Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh.

• 13:54Dax Shepard?

  Listen, some people will be disappointed, but that's something to be quite proud of. Our child did snow us.

• 13:59Speaker 03

  That she gave it a shot for something she loves.

• 14:01Speaker 02

  That is sweet. And also, I feel really cool.

• 14:04Dax Shepard?

  Good.

• 14:05Speaker 03

  You are really cool.

• 14:06Speaker 02

  I feel really cool that your 11 year old was like, yeah.

• 14:09Dax Shepard?

  And you're bringing something for everybody, because then you showed up in this outfit and now Monica's all on the ropes. She's fucked up.

• 14:13Speaker 03

  You're more than an outfit to me, though. So don't let him do that.

• 14:17Dax Shepard?

  You got us all fucked up. This place is a titter.

• 14:20Speaker 02

  I'm gonna come back.

• 14:21Dax Shepard?

  I think we should call it. That was a great episode. We can go only down from here. So what do you think about this really bad sample set I have, but 30 year old London? What do we share? Endlessly interested in whatever weird cultural differences we have, because it's misleadingly similar.

• 14:37Speaker 02

  As in between here and America?

• 14:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, right? You're like, oh yeah, English, shows, blah, blah, blah. But then there's really interesting differences.

• 14:45Speaker 02

  It's weird, because when I first moved here, I moved to New York and that felt the most similar to London specifically. But the thing that America and the UK as a whole have very similarly is that there are cities, places that it feels really multicultural and it's really like busy. And then you move further out and it becomes really disparate. I'm not having the same experience in London that someone is having in, I don't know, Yorkshire. Yorkshire's a beautiful, beautiful place. The vibe is very different and it just feels different. So it's the same as if I'm here in LA or I'm here in New York. It's very different than if I'm in Georgia.

• 15:19Dax Shepard?

  London and New York have more in common than London and Essex.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 15:22Dax Shepard?

  Than New York and Georgia.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 15:24Dax Shepard?

  I get that.

• 15:25Speaker 02

  The foods are different. We just have different foods.

• 15:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 15:27Speaker 02

  Because we have to.

• 15:29Dax Shepard?

  Why do you have to?

• 15:30Speaker 02

  Well, there are certain things that we're just not allowed to have in our food that you're okay to have in food here.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  Oh, like chemically?

• 15:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, chemically, yes. We're like not allowed to have certain things.

• 15:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but look how big and strong we are. Look at the UFC.

• 15:41Speaker 02

  Well, I don't think we have, do we have the UFC?

• 15:44Dax Shepard?

  Yes, Conor McGregor.

• 15:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:46Dax Shepard?

  I'm scared of him.

• 15:47Speaker 02

  I'm scared of him a little bit, but I do think like some of his bravado.

• 15:50Speaker 01

  He wants you to be scared of him, yeah.

• 15:51Dax Shepard?

  Cause he's scared.

• 15:52Speaker 02

  I feel like there's a part of him that's just like the most gentle, sweetest thing in the world.

• 15:56Dax Shepard?

  Well, this might interest you. We interviewed him last year and my main curiosity was like, what event happens before you dedicate your life to martial arts? And so I had asked him and he said, no, I walked into this gym at 12 years old. I'm like, yeah, but why do you walk into a boxing gym? What happened immediately before? And he's like, okay, well, actually I like this girl. She was older than me. She liked me. I was walking on the street with her. Then the older boys, one of whom was her boyfriend, pulled up in a car. Three older guys got out and beat the shit out of him. And then he goes, I didn't really fight back. And I'm like, now that makes sense. When you're trying to heal that embarrassment in front of a girl you like, where you didn't defend yourself, that's a motivation to continue on a life trajectory. And so, yeah, I think that little boy is underneath all of that.

• 16:38Speaker 02

  Still trying to defend himself.

• 16:40Dax Shepard?

  It's really gone off the rails a little bit.

• 16:42Speaker 02

  I think so, yeah. He's just like gone one step too far, but oh, I hope he finds a little bit of healing.

• 16:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, he has little kids. I think that can be a route into it.

• 16:51Speaker 02

  But I think there's something that has to be healed within himself first. It's also easily passed on to his kids. And that anger, that dismay, it's easily rubbed off.

• 17:01Dax Shepard?

  Well, I say this all the time. I'm glad we have girls and not boys because yeah, I think the impulse when that was your life is to go like, well, if I don't pass this on to him, he'll suffer the way I did. And you're just starting it all up again because you don't have any faith in the future. I get it.

• 17:15Speaker 01

  Do you have kids?

• 17:16Speaker 02

  I don't, no.

• 17:17Speaker 01

  Do you want them?

• 17:18Speaker 02

  I don't think so. I'm good with kids though.

• 17:20Speaker 01

  I'm also on the fence.

• 17:21Dax Shepard?

  You guys are the exact same age.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, 37.

• 17:25Dax Shepard?

  And you and I are only six days apart in January.

• 17:27Speaker 02

  No way.

• 17:28Dax Shepard?

  Do you believe in all the astrology stuff or no?

• 17:30Speaker 02

  I think there's a part of me that does believe in it because I'm very Capricorn to a T, which disturbs me somewhat because it annoys me.

• 17:39Speaker 01

  That's what Capricorns do. They're annoyed by the fact that it's accurate.

• 17:43Dax Shepard?

  The predictability.

• 17:43Speaker 02

  I hate it. I'm like, okay, so I'm stubborn. Good, great. Overachieving, yes, understood. Do I like nice things? Yes, I like nice things.

• 17:51Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh. Am I in charge all the time?

• 17:53Speaker 02

  All the time. Do I plan people's lives? Yes. Am I emotionally adept sometimes? Yes. Do I keep my feelings to myself for a really long time? Yes. Am I working through it? Yes.

• 18:03Dax Shepard?

  Am I insufferable? You bet your ass I am.

• 18:05Speaker 02

  Completely. Am I right a lot of the times? Yes. Does it annoy people? Yes. Do I like saying I told you so? Not always.

• 18:13Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great. I love you. Thanks for stopping by.

• 18:15Speaker 02

  You don't have to sneak out. You can come back if you want to.

• 18:16Dax Shepard?

  She has a whole schedule.

• 18:18Speaker 02

  Oh, enjoy. Bye, buddy.

• 18:20Dax Shepard?

  Bye, guys. Love you.

• 18:21Speaker 02

  Bye.

• 18:22Dax Shepard?

  Did you get on with Michaela?

• 18:24Speaker 02

  Cole?

• 18:24Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 18:25Speaker 02

  I've known her since I was 16.

• 18:27Dax Shepard?

  I love her so much. I read her book.

• 18:29Speaker 02

  She's one of the most phenomenal human beings in the world.

• 18:31Dax Shepard?

  Well, for people that don't know Michaela, what was her incredible show? That was the best show of the year on HBO.

• 18:36Speaker 02

  I May Destroy You.

• 18:36Dax Shepard?

  I May Destroy You. If you've not seen I May Destroy You.

• 18:39Speaker 02

  You have to see it. Also, before you see I May Destroy You, see Chewing Gum, which I'm in.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 18:45Speaker 02

  For like an episode or two, but it's just brilliant.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm so excited.

• 18:48Speaker 02

  And people don't realize that is originally based on a long-form poem that she wrote. I remember the first time I saw this poem, because she performed it live. I can't even remember where we were, but it was like somewhere in Holloway or something, like this small little theater, and it was like a one-woman poem, where she played all these different roles. And then it just expanded into this TV show.

• 19:08Dax Shepard?

  She's like a wunderkind.

• 19:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's no one like her.

• 19:11Dax Shepard?

  Where did you meet?

• 19:12Speaker 02

  East London. I want to say we met at one of the theaters or something.

• 19:16Dax Shepard?

  You were just both into...

• 19:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:18Dax Shepard?

  Are you comparable ages?

• 19:19Speaker 02

  I think she's maybe a year or so younger than me.

• 19:22Dax Shepard?

  Younger?

• 19:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:23Dax Shepard?

  What a bitch.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I love her. She'd written some songs or poems with songs and asked me to sing, or I think it was when I was dancing, she asked me to dance to one of her songs that she was performing at a church or something, random. And we just stayed in contact, and we've been friends since then.

• 19:41Dax Shepard?

  Give us a simple explanation of London. So you grew up in South London. You said you met in East London.

• 19:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I was born southwest London, a place called Stockwell. I went to school in South London, Clapham South, but I moved to East London when I was about 14, about Upton Park, East Ham, that kind of area, but properly East London.

• 20:00Dax Shepard?

  Your whole family did, or just you went to a school or something?

• 20:04Speaker 02

  We all moved to East London.

• 20:05Dax Shepard?

  Your sister, your mother and you?

• 20:06Speaker 02

  Yes. My mom bought a house in East London and that's when we moved. That was a really big moment for us because it was like, oh, we have our own house.

• 20:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's the vibe in South London? Like, what are the stereotypes about these pockets of London?

• 20:19Speaker 02

  I thought that South London was pretty chill. I really enjoyed it. I remember there's open spaces, loads of like cool little parks that you can go to. It's very walkable. You can walk all around South London and mostly downhill.

• 20:31Dax Shepard?

  And just never come home to avoid walking uphill.

• 20:34Speaker 02

  The bus is your best friend at that point, you know what I mean? It's lovely going, coming back is a damn nightmare, or you take a tube. There's loads of cool outdoors activities where I lived, you could go go-karting, stuff like that.

• 20:46Dax Shepard?

  Go-karting.

• 20:46Speaker 02

  And East London is really vibrant. It's busy and alive, loads of different cultures.

• 20:52Dax Shepard?

  Is it like the East Village in New York?

• 20:54Speaker 02

  No, I don't know if there's anywhere like it. You have the African community and different African communities. You've got Ghanaians, the Nigerians, you have the Pakistanis, you have Bangladesh, you have the Jamaicans there as well. There's like a smorgasbord of different types of people, which means that there's different types of food everywhere. And like, it's super vibey. I can go to the corner of East Ham right after the tube station. And I know that I'm going to walk into the store that has all of the saris and all of the 24 karat goals. But then if I cross the road, there's the shop that has the Jamaican patties. And if I walk far enough, there's the auntie that does the Nigerian materials. It's like that. And then there's the market, which has everything.

• 21:31Dax Shepard?

  This is where Kirby's mom's shop was, I think.

• 21:33Speaker 02

  I love it in East Ham because of how easy it is to just get everything. But then next door, Larry, who's like the plumber, who fixes your roof and your backyard if he needs it. Who's very, very Essex, who sounds like this and wants to talk to you about what the weather's been like, is also there.

• 21:53Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 21:54Speaker 02

  So you have all of these people who sort of exist in the same way. And then West Ham stadiums over there. For what you call soccer, we call football.

• 22:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, right. Which goes off.

• 22:03Speaker 02

  It goes off.

• 22:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, especially in the, well, you were born in 87, maybe that had passed, but there was the whole hoodlum era. It felt like- Early nineties, maybe.

• 22:11Speaker 02

  Early nineties, when I was still very, very young. I think it was Arsenal, that terrible, awful thing that happened at the games where people were like, there was a stampede.

• 22:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 22:20Speaker 02

  It was terrible.

• 22:20Dax Shepard?

  And they were all wearing Burberry, I just learned this recently. That was their thing.

• 22:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, something happened because Burberry was not that. Then it became part of that culture.

• 22:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  I think it's been, in a way, reclaimed and changed again.

• 22:33Dax Shepard?

  Beckham has saved it, kind of.

• 22:35Speaker 02

  Beckham saved it, yeah.

• 22:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, what a style icon. We're gonna give him props for that. That's what got me to buy Burberry's sweater.

• 22:40Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 22:41Dax Shepard?

  And Monica got me a beautiful one for Christmas.

• 22:43Speaker 02

  I did. Yeah, it's changed hands enough that the style has changed enough for it to become, for the aperture in it to become wider.

• 22:51Dax Shepard?

  Right. Okay, so what age was mom when she moved here? Mom and dad both are from Nigeria.

• 22:57Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 22:57Dax Shepard?

  Mom was fifteen during the civil war.

• 22:59Speaker 02

  Yes, I believe so, yeah, from war. And my mom moved to London when she was twenty-four.

• 23:04Dax Shepard?

  Had she already been a nurse in Nigeria?

• 23:07Speaker 02

  She did all of that when she got here.

• 23:08Dax Shepard?

  She came at twenty-four with who?

• 23:10Speaker 02

  Herself and her younger sister.

• 23:11Dax Shepard?

  When she landed, what was the game plan?

• 23:14Speaker 02

  I don't know if she had a game plan.

• 23:15Dax Shepard?

  Sure, just arrive.

• 23:17Speaker 02

  Arrive?

• 23:18Dax Shepard?

  Mission complete.

• 23:18Speaker 02

  What do I do?

• 23:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 23:19Speaker 02

  And then she was told that she was to do catering, to which she said yes for a second and then was like, I don't know if catering's for me.

• 23:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 23:29Speaker 02

  And then studied nursing at King's College, became a nurse, then expanded and kept expanding and then got better and better and then started doing her papers for what we call health visiting. There's a position in the UK, I always explain it because I think it's a really beautiful position that everyone should have, called a health visitor. And it is a nurse or a nurse who's at the level of what you call a sister at this point, who can make visits to people's homes who have just had children. She will take care of mother and child, make sure the vitals are good. Her particular area of expertise was cognitive health. So it's, are your children developing in the right way? Are they able to pick things up? Can they spot color?

• 24:14Speaker 02

  From birth to the age of three before they go to kindergarten.

• 24:17Dax Shepard?

  Oh my God, what a preventative step that probably. Saves a quadrillion dollars. That's different, though, than a postpartum doula. What is it? Do you know what a postpartum doula is?

• 24:27Speaker 02

  No, but it's weird because I think those are part of her duties to take care of mother right after birth. When mother comes home with a baby, when parents come home with a baby, that first couple of weeks, months, my mom is the person that you see.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  That's so amazing.

• 24:43Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  Weighs the baby, the whole lot.

• 24:45Dax Shepard?

  Probably knows about breastfeeding and all that stuff.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know why we don't have more of that because that's the whole thing. You take a baby home and you're like, I don't know what to do with it.

• 24:53Speaker 02

  That's where my mom steps in.

• 24:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:54Speaker 02

  So she will tell you what's next.

• 24:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that would be of great comfort. Every parent has the moment in the car ride home from the hospital and you're like, holy shit, what's in our backseat?

• 25:03Speaker 01

  Why they give this to me?

• 25:04Dax Shepard?

  This thing's way too fucking fragile to come to our house.

• 25:08Speaker 02

  Where are the instructions to this?

• 25:09Dax Shepard?

  It needs to be in the ICU. Look how tiny it is.

• 25:12Speaker 02

  I don't know why you don't have this position here because it's so helpful because that bit between birth and kindergarten, it seems like there's nothing in between.

• 25:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 25:21Speaker 02

  Which is so odd to me because my mom is the person in between. That means that a parent who has postpartum depression, someone who might have been already depressed, someone who is finding it hard to let, all of that, that's my mom.

• 25:34Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah. And if you fuck up the nutritional aspect of the first three years, like we now know, there's so much developmental stuff down river that doesn't happen if certain things aren't met.

• 25:45Speaker 02

  That would be her. And she was very good at it. She was like the child whisperer. It's very strange.

• 25:48Dax Shepard?

  I would imagine, just to compare and contrast that to someone who is in hospice care, right? Where your full-time job is watching people die, the weight of that's got to be something else.

• 25:58Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 25:58Dax Shepard?

  She is almost the opposite. She's seen all the excitement and the fun and the hopefulness and the future.

• 26:03Speaker 02

  Every day.

• 26:04Dax Shepard?

  Do you think it has infected her in a positive way?

• 26:06Speaker 02

  I think so. She loves children and children love her. It's really magical to watch. They all just sort of go to her.

• 26:13Dax Shepard?

  Is she supremely disappointed you're not going to give her a grandchild?

• 26:16Speaker 02

  She might be and I don't know if she knows yet. I think I have to break it to her. But the thing is, I want to satisfy that need in a very different way because I do want to be the person that's able to put people through school, take care. Care of young people who need care. I do think that's a gift that's come from her.

• 26:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 26:36Speaker 02

  Because I do think I am actually very good with kids and good with young people. I want to still be nurturing without necessarily being the biological parent.

• 26:43Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and still being able to have a date night whenever you desire.

• 26:46Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 26:46Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and take a vacation. That sounds fun.

• 26:48Speaker 02

  Do you know what I love? I love what Oprah's been able to do, where she essentially has been taking care of these young women, building them up enough for them to move into whatever careers they want to move into. And they're all excellent women. I think I aspire to be able to do that.

• 27:06Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 27:06Speaker 02

  At some point.

• 27:07Dax Shepard?

  When do you start singing?

• 27:09Speaker 02

  I start singing at the age of five without realizing that that's actually what I'm doing. I know I'm making sound. I feel very good about the sound I'm making.

• 27:18Dax Shepard?

  Good.

• 27:18Speaker 02

  I like the reaction that people are having because of it.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  Other people are reacting positively.

• 27:23Speaker 02

  So I know that something is good. I don't necessarily know that it's the most tuneful sound. I just know that I'm having a great time doing it. And I'm seeing people's faces, smiles, applause is happening, good.

• 27:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  Approval.

• 27:35Dax Shepard?

  There's nothing like being little and going like, wait, I have control. And I feel so disenfranchised and powerless as this little person, but this is a moment in time. I'm in charge.

• 27:45Speaker 02

  Right.

• 27:45Dax Shepard?

  Ooh, it's good.

• 27:46Speaker 02

  It's very good. I think for a little bit I was just chasing that because it was nice.

• 27:51Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 27:51Speaker 02

  I think for anyone then.

• 27:52Dax Shepard?

  You're not aware of it then, but when I look back, I also think it's very rare in your life where you can be in control. And I think singing certainly has that. It just happened to me. We saw Wicked. I'm like, okay, I didn't see the musical. I don't love musicals. And then fucking limitless and I'm like, oh, fucking come on, let's go. Let it rip and I'm in. You took complete control of me and whatever baggage I come in with. That's so powerful.

• 28:18Speaker 02

  But the thing is, I don't think I've ever thought of it as control necessarily. I think I've always thought of it as a way to encourage and connect people with emotion.

• 28:28Dax Shepard?

  Well, that's the positive way, but I think you're in Capricorn denial.

• 28:31Speaker 02

  Maybe, maybe I am.

• 28:33Dax Shepard?

  And by the way, it can be all things.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:35Dax Shepard?

  It's not singular. It's not binary. It's not like, oh, you like it because of the control or you like it because you make. People you love happy, that's part of it.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  I think I love the conversation of singing. I always think there's a real big conversation going on, especially when I'm singing live. It's a big old conversation. I can see it because I'm looking at people's eyes. I am urging them to connect with me. I'm trying to tell you this story. I can scream, I can yell, I can whisper, I can caress with my voice. I can do all of those things, but I want the energy exchange. And I guess selfishly, that energy exchange is like a high for me, it's a rush. And when I can see that it's happening, there's nothing better than that. It is a really vulnerable place to stand and be like, I'm gonna open up myself and I'm gonna tell you my stories with my voice. It's just me and that's always a really vulnerable place to be. People don't realize that. When you have to sing in front of an orchestra, they either love you or hate you.

• 29:27Dax Shepard?

  The orchestra.

• 29:28Speaker 02

  The orchestra. Why would they hate you? Because some singers will come in and there's an entitled thing that people come to an orchestra with where it's like, I'm the singer, you play behind me. You're serving me.

• 29:37Dax Shepard?

  You're supporting me.

• 29:38Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 29:38Dax Shepard?

  I'm the star.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  When actually it's the complete opposite. It's not that at all. You're all in it together. The music doesn't make sense without them and they don't make sense without you. They can play the song, but the lyrics communicate as well, but they help with the emotion. If you don't do it together, it will feel disjointed. I always get really nervous before I have the conversation, but I always urge myself to do it. Before we even start rehearsal, the first thing I ask the orchestra to do is to let me come with you and let's do this together. Because I'm not gonna do this alone. And if you're sat there not enjoying this, everyone's gonna feel it. Right. Because there's 20 of them and only one of me. And if 20 of them aren't enjoying it and if they can't go with it, their audience will feel that immediately.

• 30:23Speaker 02

  And we're off in the wrong direction.

• 30:25Dax Shepard?

  Now, I know nothing about this, just from the outside, is there knee jerk fear that we're playing math, right? We have the sheet music in front of us and it goes this way to this tempo. But the singer has more latitude and the singer can individualize it. The saxophonist can't individualize it, nor can the oboist. So is it that sometimes they're like, all right, this person's gonna come in and they're gonna do whatever the fuck they want. And we're stuck in this grid and then we're gonna try to catch them, but then we're gonna fall back. Is it that? Is that their? Fear that they're going to be doing something that is different from what you're doing.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  Yes, and I think the actual fear is that the singer who comes in, who does have the latitude, isn't respectful of the fact that they have maths to do as well. They have a box to stay in. You can have your latitude, but if you're aware of, I need to make sure I make it back to here.

• 31:09Dax Shepard?

  You gotta stick your landing every time.

• 31:11Speaker 02

  And if you don't.

• 31:11Dax Shepard?

  I just got a point. That means you really.

• 31:13Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 31:13Dax Shepard?

  You're pointing right at my face.

• 31:14Speaker 02

  If you don't and you're just all over the place and you're not paying attention, you're not looking at the conductor, you're not listening.

• 31:19Dax Shepard?

  You're in your own selfish world.

• 31:21Speaker 02

  Exactly. Now we're not doing this together. Now you're just doing whatever the hell you want to do. And I'm over here playing these notes.

• 31:26Dax Shepard?

  We should just leave and let you.

• 31:27Speaker 02

  Why are we even here? You're doing this on your own. You don't need us.

• 31:30Dax Shepard?

  And what percentage of you just had a guess? How many do you think are respectful?

• 31:33Speaker 02

  I think very few. A lot of singers just get excited that they get to sing in front of an orchestra.

• 31:37Dax Shepard?

  And they're nervous.

• 31:38Speaker 02

  And they're nervous. They haven't really done it before. Sometimes an orchestra is a novelty to a lot of singers.

• 31:43Dax Shepard?

  And in their defense, if it doesn't work out, no one's going like, the oboe suck tonight. They're gonna say the singer suck.

• 31:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:48Dax Shepard?

  You are carrying the weight of the whole performance.

• 31:50Speaker 02

  Yes, but the weight becomes a hell of a lot lighter when you know it's not just you.

• 31:53Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 31:54Speaker 01

  When you say you wanted to connect, that's your main goal when you're up there. Did you feel like when you were younger, you had a hard time connecting outside of that realm? Was it an escape? I mean, it doesn't seem like it because you're easy to talk to, but I don't know if you were introverted or shy and that was your outlet.

• 32:10Speaker 02

  I wasn't shy. I was very bossy.

• 32:13Dax Shepard?

  Hmm, baby boss.

• 32:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:14Dax Shepard?

  So is Monica.

• 32:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:15Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 32:16Speaker 02

  I was very bossy. I knew exactly what I needed to do, what I wanted. And if I didn't like something, I was the worst version of a Capricorn that could exist.

• 32:27Speaker 05

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

• 32:34Dax Shepard?

  We get support from Skims. Okay, I have a confession. I genuinely love matching pajamas. It's the best part of Christmas morning, really. Everyone in the same matching set, looking ridiculously cute in front of the tree.

• 32:48Speaker 01

  I love matching pajamas. I'm literally going to be in coordinating sets with all my friends this holiday season because I got them, spoiler to my friends who are listening, the same Skims pajama set I've been living in. They are so soft and cozy and they look cute. So you can leave the house and go get a late night hot chocolate and be cozy.

• 33:09Dax Shepard?

  Hmm, it's so great how Skims has sets for everyone too. Women's, men's, kids, even your pets. So nobody in your life has to be left out this year.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  I have a bunch of different pajama sets. One of my favorite is the organic cotton sleep long sleeve set.

• 33:26Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 33:27Speaker 01

  It is so comfortable, very chic, too. The top is a button down, but very, very soft, easy to sleep in. But as I said before, you can multi-purpose this and look super cute.

• 33:39Dax Shepard?

  Hot chocolate runs. It's like the pajamas we grew up in, except without the scratchy polyester that made opening presents feel more like a hot yoga class that nobody signed up for.

• 33:48Speaker 01

  All the nostalgia, none of the discomfort. Shop my favorite loungewear and pajamas at skims.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select podcasts in the survey and be sure to select armchair expert in the dropdown menu that follows. If you're looking for the perfect gifts for everyone on your list, the Skims Holiday Shop is now open at skims.com.

• 34:07Dax Shepard?

  This episode is supported by Helix.

• 34:11Speaker 01

  Okay, can we talk about how November is basically survival mode between the holidays, the travel, the hosting, the cooking, the everything? Sleep is the one thing keeping me from completely unraveling.

• 34:21Dax Shepard?

  It really is the foundation, and I think people underestimate how much a bad mattress is quietly ruining their day. You wake up stiff, your back's angry, you're already behind before your feet hit the floor.

• 34:32Speaker 01

  That was me before Helix. I took their sleep quiz, which is so fast. It took me like two minutes and they matched me to a mattress that actually fits how I sleep. Not a guess, not a firm or soft coin flip, it's a real match. I have a midnight mattress and I really like it. I was noticing it because I actually had to sleep in one of my other beds recently that doesn't have a Helix mattress on it and I really could tell a big difference in my sleep.

• 34:55Dax Shepard?

  Temperature was all over the map.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  It was a mess. I need a new one.

• 34:58Dax Shepard?

  Look, they've got over 20 mattress models, so whether you sleep hot, need extra back support, or you've got a partner who moves around all night, there's one built for you. Plus free shipping and a 365 night happy with Helix guarantee. That's a full year to decide.

• 35:13Speaker 01

  Helix has been named the most awarded mattress by Forbes, Wired, and more. So it's not just us being enthusiastic, the experts agree.

• 35:20Dax Shepard?

  Right now, Helix is running their Black Friday sale with up to 30% off. Go to helixsleep.com/armchair for up to 30% off your Helix mattress. That's helixsleep.com/armchair for up to 30% off your Helix mattress. Helixsleep.com/armchair.

• 35:37Dax Shepard?

  We get support from No Bull. The holidays can get hectic. You finally hit a post summer routine and suddenly you're on hosting duty every week.

• 35:47Speaker 01

  That's when you really need to ground yourself.

• 35:50Dax Shepard?

  Exactly, and that's why I keep my training routine through the holidays. It's the whole No Bull idea. There's a no bullshit training brand built around consistency, honesty, and just putting in the work. It's not about adding more pressure to an already packed schedule. It's about having the gear and the habits to move through the season your way. My personal favorite, all three of the shoes are fantastic. The Outwork, the Outwork Flex, and the Drive 2. I like the Drive 2 because it's a hybrid. And I lift, of course, but I also like to do what's called box jumps.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 36:21Dax Shepard?

  Right? I do a lot of jumping onto a little platform and I want a little more flexibility. And boy, do they deliver.

• 36:27Speaker 01

  And if you're a cardio person and you're running and you also need to be lifting.

• 36:31Dax Shepard?

  And the style is banging. I don't know what to say. Beautiful style, very breathable, very, very comfortable, lots of support. They were built for lifting.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  They also make a great holiday gift. You know, I love gifting, a purposeful one that actually supports someone's goals and routines. And it's not a gift that just ends up in the back of a closet.

• 36:48Dax Shepard?

  Stay stronger than the season. Head to nobullproject.com all holiday season to shop new deals every week. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Every family has that one holiday tradition nobody actually enjoys, but everyone keeps doing because stopping it would feel like a federal offense. For me, it was a specific meal situation that I will not name because my family listens. But at some point you have to ask yourself, am I doing this because I love it? Or because I'm afraid of what happens if I don't?

• 37:18Speaker 01

  Yes, and that question applies to so much more than the holidays. I think a lot of us carry these invisible rules about how we're supposed to spend the holidays. Who we're supposed to see, what it's supposed to look like. And when you start unpacking that with a therapist, you realize half of your stress is coming from rules you didn't even write.

• 37:35Dax Shepard?

  This is where BetterHelp can be a great resource during the holidays. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences, which means they typically Get it right the first time. If you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored recs.

• 37:54Speaker 01

  I just love therapy. I've been avoiding it recently, or not avoiding it, but I was like, oh, I'm busy, I'm busy, I'm busy. I haven't canceled, canceled, canceled. But then I-

• 38:02Dax Shepard?

  You start feeling it.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, because then I had it this past weekend and I was like, oh my God, I'm just, thank God, thank God for her. Yeah.

• 38:10Dax Shepard?

  BetterHelp is now in network with more than 125 health plans with many copays as low as $15 for eligible members. And if you don't have eligible insurance or live outside the US, you can still get 20% off your first month. Sign up and get 20% off at betterhelp.com/dax. That's betterhelp, H E L P, dot com slash DAX.

• 38:41Speaker 01

  You have some Virgo in you too. I'm feeling, yeah.

• 38:43Speaker 02

  I would just say what I thought. And sometimes that would not, it would not be nice.

• 38:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:51Speaker 02

  I wasn't a mean kid. I just was really honest all the time.

• 38:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Can I defend us for a second?

• 38:56Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 38:56Dax Shepard?

  So it's an easy mix up. What I value the most is the truth.

• 39:01Speaker 02

  Please.

• 39:02Dax Shepard?

  And I prefer an inconvenient truth than I do a flowery lie.

• 39:07Speaker 02

  Just don't do it to me.

• 39:08Dax Shepard?

  But I have to acknowledge for other people, that's not the case.

• 39:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:12Dax Shepard?

  They're not interested in that. And that's also fair.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  Because it depends on where you're coming from. You have that, Dax has that hang up, I guess I'll call it, or obsession or whatever.

• 39:20Dax Shepard?

  Character defect.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  No, it's not a defect, but because you were told things that weren't true and you had to figure it out. Yeah, you had to figure out what was true and what wasn't true. And so you seek the truth. So it comes from somewhere, that need.

• 39:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, we're blaming January, but maybe there's more.

• 39:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it might be a little more than January.

• 39:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  Because we're all doing that. The best way to survive in the world. And so why truth for you?

• 39:45Speaker 02

  I think it comes from my own past and my history with my dad and all of those things. Maybe feeling a little lied to in that expectation of a parent and not getting it.

• 39:57Dax Shepard?

  Do you have this chip on your shoulder? Do you remember being young and them telling you some kid's safe thing that you saw right through? And it felt so disrespectful, like, I know what's going on and you're trying to fool me. Did you have that sense of like, you're treating me too young? I know what's going on.

• 40:12Speaker 02

  I was a clever kid, so I didn't necessarily need much babying. So when a person did baby me, it still pisses me off now.

• 40:19Dax Shepard?

  How sweet of you.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  I can't stand it.

• 40:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's rough.

• 40:25Speaker 02

  Please don't call me cute. I haven't been cute in a long time.

• 40:28Dax Shepard?

  Well, it depends what you're associating with the word cute is.

• 40:31Speaker 02

  A small squirrel, cute. My dogs, who are five pounds and eight pounds, cute.

• 40:37Dax Shepard?

  Vulnerable too.

• 40:38Speaker 02

  Vulnerable. You know, some babies, cute.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  Do you think that's a small person complex thing?

• 40:43Speaker 02

  I think it's a small person complex thing to other people. I know I'm short. I'm very aware of being a small, five foot one person. But it's when people think because you're small, you're also very young and dumb. The two things don't go together just because I'm small. You know what I mean? I'm good.

• 40:59Speaker 01

  I have that too. I'm like, don't underestimate this. But then I think sometimes I'm too critical or harsh, or you need to respect me. Do you ever feel like you swing?

• 41:10Speaker 02

  I try not to swing. When someone's like, you look so much bigger on stage. I understand what that means. I think if you'd told me that 10 years ago, I would have been like, what do you mean? But now I understand what you mean by someone's presence when they're in performance mode. As opposed to when you meet them, they're two different things. So the look of someone changes when they're in their sort of element.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 41:33Speaker 02

  They do seem bigger. You can't help it. And that's what happens. So I totally understand what that means.

• 41:39Dax Shepard?

  This is all very comedic though, because that's your bag. That's what you were handed and that's what you're dealing with. So mine is universally, when I meet someone in real life, they go, oh my God, you're so much bigger in real life. So weirdly, I'm so much bigger in real life than they see me on screen. So if I wanted, if I'm in the mood, I could go like, I'm not powerful on screen or I'm not. I could let that be a whole thing. If you choose, you could really take it personal or something's going on. And what's really complicates it all, not for me as much, because I am giving. Given the best benefit of the doubt that a human on planet Earth can be given. I'm a tall, white dude. But if I'm short and black and British, how am I to know what's actually at play here? Is it just normal humanness? Or is it some kind of bigotry? What's happening?

• 42:23Speaker 01

  It's hard to know.

• 42:24Speaker 02

  It's very hard to know. And at any point, it could be either one of those things.

• 42:27Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 42:28Speaker 01

  Or all of it.

• 42:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. Because sometimes it is. You're so sweet. Oh, my goodness, I didn't expect you to be.

• 42:33Dax Shepard?

  You're so sweet, or you're so articulate, or you're so smart. I mean, these are very dog whistly.

• 42:38Speaker 02

  You're so well spoken. Oh, my God, I love the way you speak. How else am I supposed to speak?

• 42:42Dax Shepard?

  But what's tricky.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  What were you expecting?

• 42:44Dax Shepard?

  Here's what's tricky. There's the historical context of that comment. Basically, what I'm saying is I was expecting you to sound dumb. Yet, you do speak very appealingly.

• 42:53Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 42:54Dax Shepard?

  Objectively. Again, how are you to know what the hell's going on?

• 42:58Speaker 02

  I like to think I'm somewhat discerning. And you can tell by the way someone says something and the intention behind it. I think you can always sense it through the way a person approaches you and what they're trying to say and the context through which they say it. I also just try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. If I was to run around going, what are you trying to say? The whole time, I would be exhausted. And some of this is exhausting as it is.

• 43:26Speaker 01

  It's a pick your battles.

• 43:27Speaker 02

  This is not the fight I want to even get into. And sometimes it's just a, yeah, thank you so much.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 43:33Dax Shepard?

  I think the real move is to just file all of it into, that's their stuff.

• 43:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:39Dax Shepard?

  And it's not my stuff. So my little thing is, I'd say at least half the people that come up to me in public, they have come up to me to say, hey, I love your wife. And I go, oh, yeah, me too. I don't really know what else to say. You just flagged me down, but like, I guess carried that message onto her. But the truth is, many of those people, they don't know what to say. And people are coming up to Kristen saying, I love your husband. Now, she is objectively more famous than me, so I could let that lower my self-esteem. Or I could go like, oh, yeah, people say it to her too. None of it means anything. They're panicked.

• 44:11Speaker 02

  What they actually want to say is, I think you're great. And I watch your shows.

• 44:14Speaker 01

  I know about you.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  And they know what about you and they want to have a whole conversation and nothing comes out.

• 44:19Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 44:19Speaker 02

  But I love your wife.

• 44:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, exactly. Now it's all fine. And at some point, you just have to make a decision for yourself. It's like, well, this could continue to rattle me or I could enjoy my life.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:31Dax Shepard?

  But if you're a justice warrior like I am, not in the popular sense, but if there's an injustice, I'm running towards.

• 44:37Speaker 02

  I'm telling you, this is God for God's shit.

• 44:39Dax Shepard?

  It is, right? I just don't stand for it.

• 44:42Speaker 02

  It really is. Cause I have the same thing.

• 44:44Dax Shepard?

  You suffer from it. I suffer from it. The person doesn't suffer from it.

• 44:47Speaker 02

  No, they go home afterwards. They're like, okay, that was good.

• 44:49Speaker 01

  That was a great interaction.

• 44:50Speaker 02

  Great.

• 44:51Dax Shepard?

  And what they probably want to really say, and they're not even sure how to say it, is I'm short circuiting. You're a person that's on my TV that's now in three dimension.

• 44:58Speaker 02

  It's a complete collapse of reality for them.

• 45:02Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 45:02Speaker 01

  A more generous take is that they are actually saying, I've invested part of my life in your life. I know about you. I know you have a wife and I really like her too. And I find you interesting enough that I've given you my time. That's really what they're trying to say, but then that's what comes out. But I do want to say that I am grateful that you, Dax, just said you recognize that as a tall, white, straight man. Yeah, I added that.

• 45:27Dax Shepard?

  You don't know all my stuff.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  That you can't really imagine what it's like to be in that other position. Because I have heard people say like, they're just being nice. And I'm like, you haven't had 37 years of practice to know when someone's being nice and when someone's not.

• 45:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  I think it's just great to acknowledge, maybe you can't know.

• 45:46Speaker 02

  I wonder if there's a world in which you just like, ask the question.

• 45:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Are you a racist asshole?

• 45:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. Are you being condescending or are you watch them short circuit?

• 45:56Dax Shepard?

  I don't think I was ever going to admit this out loud. I only told a single person. I knew Monica would be mad at me. I told Eric, cause he's our shittiest friend and I knew he would maybe agree with this.

• 46:04Speaker 01

  Now we're telling the world.

• 46:06Dax Shepard?

  Now I'm going to tell the world.

• 46:06Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 46:07Dax Shepard?

  I was not proud of this, but this did happen. I'm at this burger joint down the street for the win. I love it. I'm there by myself. I'm eating a hamburger. There's a man and his wife and two kind of late teens kids. And the man leans over and he goes, I love your wife's commercials. It's cool. They let you be in them.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  That's so rude.

• 46:28Dax Shepard?

  So rude. I take like four or five seconds and I'm like, this guy doesn't know what he just said. Maybe a minute goes by and I go, hey, did you mean to sound like a dick when you said that to me? Or did you just mess up your delivery? Wow.

• 46:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 46:41Dax Shepard?

  And he goes, what? And I go, well, you said that my wife lets me be in her commercials that I wrote. And I just don't know, do you realize how that sounded? Or did you just get nervous? And then he kind of panicked and he goes, huh, yeah, we just love all the work you guys do with mental health. I was like, oh no. Oh my god.

• 47:00Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh.

• 47:02Dax Shepard?

  Oh no.

• 47:03Speaker 02

  Oh no.

• 47:05Dax Shepard?

  And then y'all, we continue to sit there for another 15 minutes and finish our hamburgers. You were with this person? I was by myself, sitting directly next to the guy. He wasn't even a foot from me. You'd think he would move.

• 47:16Speaker 02

  There is something in the asking that made him have to think about it. What he said was rude.

• 47:22Dax Shepard?

  Yes. I've left out a part, I consider for a moment, he might be trying to make a joke. He might know that's obviously an insult and he's just being familiar with me because he knows me. And maybe a buddy of mine would say that from Detroit. And I think I said, were you meaning to be a dick or were you trying to be funny?

• 47:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 47:38Dax Shepard?

  Twitchy didn't answer, he said, I like the work you guys do with mental health.

• 47:41Speaker 02

  I will say that that is a really simple question to ask. And it's actually the simple answer, yes or no. It's a yes or no answer. And I don't think he knew the answer.

• 47:50Dax Shepard?

  I don't think so either.

• 47:51Speaker 02

  I think he said a joke that he realized could be an insult as well, but thought it was like okay to say because he felt familiar.

• 47:58Dax Shepard?

  And by the time I was asking him, he's already hearing the fight he's having with his wife on the ride home where she's like, why do you have to fucking open your mouth? I'm him in a lot of situations.

• 48:06Speaker 02

  I understand that there are people who short circuit and they just don't know what to say. And sometimes some of the sweetest interactions come out of that. My favorite types of those interactions are those where they just say, I don't know what to say and I have no words, but you're amazing.

• 48:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 48:22Speaker 02

  Because I get it.

• 48:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Well, that sentence weirdly conveys more emotion than any other one.

• 48:27Speaker 02

  Exactly. I'm really overwhelmed. I don't really know what to say because it's so honest. It's so endearing and it's so real. There are times when you're like, I don't know what to say here, but I know that this is a really cool moment and I'm glad you're here.

• 48:42Dax Shepard?

  And I'm scared right now.

• 48:43Speaker 02

  And I'm scared because I don't want to say the wrong thing. It's an honest emotional reaction. The flip side of that is someone saying something and they say it in the wrong way. And if you look closely enough, you'll see it in their faces that, oh my God, what did I just say? Immediately you'll see it. But if that doesn't show up at all, then it's, oh, I said the best thing in the world. And then it's like, did you mean to hurt my feelings?

• 49:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:07Speaker 02

  Or was that just a moment of you trying to connect?

• 49:09Speaker 01

  That's a little bit better of a way to phrase it instead of where you're trying to be a dick.

• 49:13Dax Shepard?

  How mad are you at me out of 10?

• 49:15Speaker 01

  I'm not. I'm not mad. But I do think maybe, oh, did you mean to hurt my feelings or were you just trying to be funny?

• 49:21Dax Shepard?

  That would have meant a fixed vulnerability.

• 49:22Speaker 01

  That's the most vulnerable. And you're right, there's one answer.

• 49:25Speaker 02

  There's one answer. You know, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings or I just wanted to connect. I'm so sorry, that came out wrong.

• 49:30Dax Shepard?

  I should have let the whole thing slide. I don't think anything productive came out of it. Other than I came home and I was like.

• 49:35Speaker 01

  They did have to think about paying and maybe they won't go to the next person and do something.

• 49:39Speaker 02

  And say something like that.

• 49:40Speaker 01

  It's wild. Before you guys came up, we were talking about fame and newer celebrities are pushing back on fame.

• 49:48Dax Shepard?

  The social contract of it all.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  Yes, they're building a bigger boundary and I think it's very interesting.

• 49:53Dax Shepard?

  Well, I imagine you're dealing with something different than me. Well, now currently what we deal with, but prior to this show.

• 50:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 50:01Dax Shepard?

  When I was just an actor, occasionally people were moved by what I did on parenthood. They laughed a lot at stuff I did. They didn't have cathartic emotional breakthroughs. You know, your lane in particular, I think is going to warrant an asymmetric connection where it's like, you really connected with my soul and opened up something and I don't even know what to do with this. We have it from the show. I just did a bunch of meet and greets for my beer company and I met so many fucking beautiful listeners of the show and they're saying like, my brother OD'd or I've repaired my relationship with my parents, they're addicts, you know, this kind of stuff. And I'm presuming that's the level of connection people are having with you and I love it, cherish it, feel so lucky to be receiving it and it's very emotional. Exhausting.

• 50:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think for me, that particular kind of connection has been happening since The Color Purple, really and truly. So that kind of cathartic release and people's stories and people coming together, breakups, the stories of abuse, those things have come up and people have been really open with me about the things they've been going through because of these women that I've been able to play and the stories that we get to tell. And during my concerts as well, people come together. There's something that happens in these spaces. I'm really grateful that that is what people experience with me, but I do have to be like.

• 51:25Dax Shepard?

  Protective?

• 51:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, because otherwise I'll just arms open wide all day.

• 51:30Dax Shepard?

  I think it's like when someone writes a cancer survival memoir that's popular. Inevitably, what you're going to hear when you meet people who loved it is their cancer journey or their parents' cancer journey, which is totally appropriate, but also it's a lot. You can't carry all those.

• 51:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's very hard not to because I actually care. Every time someone takes the time to tell me a story, I'm listening. I feel their feelings because there's nothing worse than trying to tell someone a story and them not even bothering to like look you in the face.

• 51:56Dax Shepard?

  No, then you're invisible.

• 51:57Speaker 02

  And I never want anyone to feel like that with me. So I take a lot of time to speak with people and be with people after shows and I can be there for like an hour and just be there with people.

• 52:11Dax Shepard?

  No, your only solution is to not leave your house.

• 52:13Speaker 02

  It's not healthy.

• 52:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 52:14Speaker 02

  So after those shows, after those performances, whenever I've had all of that, outside of it, I have to find spaces for me to just be like me, find places where I could be meditative. And for me, running or walking gives me space to just like, I'm just gonna think, I'm gonna reconfigure my brain, I'm gonna free up some space for myself because it's really the only way I can do it.

• 52:38Dax Shepard?

  I remember being depressed in my twenties, living in Santa Monica and just kind of hopeless. And I'd be like, just walk out your door and just walk. And I'd walk like five miles.

• 52:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:48Dax Shepard?

  And I get back, I'm like, okay, yeah, I can keep going. What a magical thing to walk.

• 52:51Speaker 02

  It's so great. It has really. Helped me, I went to Greece and I filmed a little film called Drift and that was really terrifying and hard and heartbreaking, the whole lot. And what I would do every day before we would start filming is either run or walk miles and it would just sort of reset everything. The practice has just never changed.

• 53:15Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 53:16Dax Shepard?

  At some point for your mental health, you're gonna have to like do some silly something.

• 53:21Speaker 02

  Some silly something?

• 53:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, cuz Drift, Harriet, fucking Color Purple, like you're kinda living.

• 53:26Speaker 02

  If we think about it, even Wicked isn't really a silly project.

• 53:30Dax Shepard?

  No, you're getting your ass kicked.

• 53:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm pulling out everything from the depths of me. I think on the outside, people go, oh, it's fun. And then they get in there like, what?

• 53:40Dax Shepard?

  What is great about Wicked, and again, I can't believe I'd never seen the musical, but I didn't know anything about the story, which was great.

• 53:46Speaker 02

  I really appreciate people who have not seen it at all and are coming to the movie fresh.

• 53:51Dax Shepard?

  Can I tell you, I went back to our interview with Adina and she told this crazy story, you know, she got really hurt on stage one time. And then they had to rush her to the hospital. And she was saying this in the interview and like, I'm all green. And I'm like, I don't know what that means. She can't really be all green.

• 54:04Speaker 01

  Oh, you didn't know?

• 54:05Dax Shepard?

  I didn't know. I didn't even know she was all green in there.

• 54:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 54:08Dax Shepard?

  And then I saw you and I was like, oh, my God, now that story makes sense. She was in the ER completely green. That's fucking nuts.

• 54:14Speaker 01

  In her outfit. So funny.

• 54:17Dax Shepard?

  And it's such a great, I don't wanna call it a trope, that feels dismissive, but it's a great architecture to watch someone just fucking take it on the chin. It's gut wrenching. I hate it. Especially the Justice Warrior me. I want you to go like, hey, fuck all y'all. I'm better than all y'all. I'm maddened by it and it's so sticky and good and great story.

• 54:34Speaker 01

  We got to go see it in a theater and it was so exciting. And I saw the play many years ago. I guess I forgot the whole thing. It started and I was like, what? I don't remember any of this. And then we were with a friend and she went to the bathroom and she came back and I was like, this movie is so sad. I hate what is happening to her.

• 54:52Speaker 02

  Right.

• 54:52Speaker 01

  You do such a good job of not playing it with pity, but you feel for that kid. And I was like, I'm her. I was like, so, you know, I'm her and I hate this for everybody. Especially me. It was fantastic. You're so good in it.

• 55:09Speaker 02

  Thank you, but I do have to do something silly at some point. I don't know what the silly thing is. I just did a really cool. I mean, there is silliness in it and I had a great time doing it. We did an episode of Poker Face with Natasha Lyonne.

• 55:21Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 55:21Speaker 02

  And Brian Johnson and I had the best time doing it. And there is a lot of silliness. I got to use my funny bone there.

• 55:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 55:29Speaker 02

  But I think drama is always going to follow me. I think the dramatic bone is always going to be there. There's always going to be heart in something.

• 55:35Dax Shepard?

  This is not a popular opinion that I have, but I have it. And I don't know where this comes from in me, but I'm a white trash kid. And I got to grow up and be free of that. And I don't have to tell the story of every socially and financially disenfranchised person. And I have always felt a little bit of sympathy. If you're famous and you're black, there feels like some obligation. Like you can't not be political. That's just not on the table for me. And although I think it's great to pursue those things, I also think it's yet another thing that's not fair about the whole experience. You finally transcended this and now you also need to be a social leader for me. And for you, I imagine like telling these stories. Did you feel some obligation like, yeah, I'm the best person to tell the color purple story?

• 56:20Dax Shepard?

  I'm obliged to do so.

• 56:22Speaker 02

  There is a part of me that is like, yes, sometimes I want to just do some great stuff that doesn't have anything to do with the politics of me being a black queer woman.

• 56:33Dax Shepard?

  Fashionista.

• 56:34Speaker 02

  I try. But I don't know if I have that choice. And so I kind of just accept it and try my very, very best to pick the things that have the widest view of what humanness looks like. I want to dance in the gray area always. I'm not particularly interested in characters that are only liked. I'm not particularly interested in characters that are just heroes. I want the complicated, icky space.

• 57:02Dax Shepard?

  The Gary Oldman career.

• 57:04Speaker 02

  I want that. I want to be able to do all of those things and I want it to be okay. I have less worry about it than often sometimes studios and streamers do. They're like, oh, but what makes? She redeemable. Do we like her? And I'm always like, I don't know if the character cares if you like her or not.

• 57:19Dax Shepard?

  Also, take a look at Sopranos.

• 57:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:22Dax Shepard?

  The most successful show ever.

• 57:23Speaker 02

  If Tony Soprano is likable, we just watch it. Nobody asked if American Psycho was gonna be liked. I think it's okay if we can get those kinds of characters where the face is mine. We'll all be okay if we start really diving into those spaces and not being like, it's because she's black. It's just because she's human and she has darkness and light in her.

• 57:45Dax Shepard?

  That's what's kind of clever about Wicked is she's green.

• 57:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's all the difference that a person can be.

• 57:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 57:52Speaker 02

  I loved the idea of being able to play her because there is no requirement for me to play her as just good or perfect the entire time. She makes mistakes. She fucks up. She gets it wrong.

• 58:06Dax Shepard?

  Well, Ariana is perfect.

• 58:08Speaker 02

  Well.

• 58:09Dax Shepard?

  But we immediately don't like that.

• 58:10Speaker 02

  And that's the thing. They're both fallible beings. They're both fallible humans. They rub up against each other. They're not great with each other either. It's not like Glinda's horrible and Elphaba doesn't give it back. They give it to each other. They're mean to each other for a long time. They say horrid things to each other until they realize, oh, we feel just as outcast as each other. In spaces, yours is more obvious, mine is not. I'm trying to live up to something that is beyond me and I can't get to a place that you are in. And I'm in the difference my entire life. So the experience of the world is very, very different.

• 58:49Dax Shepard?

  Well, the most important thing is neither's thriving from the identity they've taken on.

• 58:52Speaker 02

  Because neither one of them at the beginning actually take on who they're meant to be. It takes them having to be like, this could be to my complete destruction, but I have got to be myself. Because it's the only way that I can actually fully exist. And that's when shit really takes off.

• 59:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Oh, my God. So good. We love John Chu. We've known John forever. He's the director.

• 59:15Speaker 02

  Truly is one of the most incredible people on the planet, just a good human being. Watching him work is really fun. He's so excited by it. And he's like finding things at the same time we're finding things and then the ideas keep going back and forth. Should we try this? Do you want to try it one more time? And it's just so thrilling the entire time. And this is what it's like for months and months on end. And the thing is, he won't say he's tired. I'll be like, John, you're tired. I need you to sit down. You need to take a break. Have you had something to eat? What are you eating? This is trash. I'm gonna get you some vegetables and some like nuts. Let's get you some sugar free sweets instead of having like all that sugar. Cause it's not gonna help.

• 59:58Speaker 02

  He's the kind of person that you want to be well, because he wants you to be well. He's creating this atmosphere that is so infectious. And it sounds really cliche and very facetious, but it's not. That's how we did this. And that's not to say that it was easy. It's just to say that because the atmosphere was set up in the right way. The things that were difficult were pleasurable at the same time. You could actually enjoy doing the hard work.

• 1:00:23Dax Shepard?

  When you're a carpenter and you're building a house, it's hard.

• 1:00:25Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:00:26Dax Shepard?

  But fuck is it rewarding?

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:00:27Dax Shepard?

  Like it's all going right.

• 1:00:28Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:00:29Dax Shepard?

  And that's so rewarding.

• 1:00:30Speaker 01

  When people see the movie, it is shocking what he's done.

• 1:00:33Speaker 02

  I mean.

• 1:00:33Speaker 01

  It is incredible.

• 1:00:35Dax Shepard?

  Visually, choreography.

• 1:00:36Speaker 01

  Oh my god. I was like, how did he do this? How did he think this? It's incredible. But I can imagine because there's so many moving parts, it'd be easiest for him to just be tough.

• 1:00:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  So the fact that he was fun and engaging is a big feat.

• 1:00:50Speaker 02

  And really caring, because he asked me at the very beginning whether I wanted to do the makeup or whether I wanted to do CGI. There was a question. It was like, so here's the deal, Sin. If you do this makeup, it's gonna add three hours to your call time.

• 1:01:06Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:01:07Speaker 02

  Every day. And it's gonna be hard to do that, because these are long days and you're gonna add to it.

• 1:01:11Dax Shepard?

  I'm more worried about taking it off. Putting it on's one thing.

• 1:01:14Speaker 02

  The taking it off took an extra hour, hour and a half.

• 1:01:16Dax Shepard?

  And is that shit bad for your skin?

• 1:01:18Speaker 02

  You know what? My skin was in the best.

• 1:01:19Speaker 01

  So you said yes?

• 1:01:20Speaker 02

  I said yeah.

• 1:01:21Dax Shepard?

  Why did you say yes? You wanted to look in the mirror and?

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:01:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I get that.

• 1:01:26Speaker 02

  I didn't want to leave my trailer and have like dots on my face.

• 1:01:29Dax Shepard?

  Can I see your hands? I couldn't tell if it was your nails were so long, if you were wearing some kind of hand thing.

• 1:01:33Speaker 02

  No, my nails were done.

• 1:01:34Dax Shepard?

  Okay, and nothing was happening with your hands?

• 1:01:36Speaker 02

  Nothing was happening with my hands. I have very long fingers.

• 1:01:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:39Speaker 02

  Very long fingers.

• 1:01:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:41Speaker 02

  My nails are very long right now.

• 1:01:42Dax Shepard?

  Can I ask you a really crazy question, it's inappropriate?

• 1:01:45Speaker 02

  Go on.

• 1:01:45Dax Shepard?

  When you're wiping your butt.

• 1:01:46Speaker 02

  I knew you would ask that question.

• 1:01:48Dax Shepard?

  I know, but everyone thinks it. Everyone's afraid to ask it.

• 1:01:50Speaker 02

  Because, no, no one's afraid to ask it.

• 1:01:52Dax Shepard?

  Oh, is everyone asking that?

• 1:01:53Speaker 02

  Everybody asks that question.

• 1:01:54Dax Shepard?

  All girls, though?

• 1:01:55Speaker 02

  No, everybody asks that question.

• 1:01:57Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:01:58Dax Shepard?

  Very cliche.

• 1:01:58Speaker 02

  And my answer is, nobody uses just their fingers to wipe their backside. You use tissue.

• 1:02:04Dax Shepard?

  Correct.

• 1:02:05Speaker 02

  And you wipe.

• 1:02:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I guess my question is, does the tissue go on the tip of the fingernails? Or do you try to get the tissue on the?

• 1:02:12Speaker 02

  Pads of the fingers.

• 1:02:13Dax Shepard?

  Great, great, great, great. We're getting somewhere. And then, um, okay. And then you're just feeling a little tickle of the nails on your crack of your butt sometimes?

• 1:02:20Speaker 02

  No, because the tissue's there. You don't feel none of that.

• 1:02:23Dax Shepard?

  I wonder, okay, what I would do if I were you?

• 1:02:25Speaker 02

  Oh, boy.

• 1:02:25Dax Shepard?

  Is I would wrap my whole, I'd make a mitten.

• 1:02:28Speaker 02

  I fold.

• 1:02:28Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:02:29Speaker 01

  Oh, you're folder. I bunch.

• 1:02:31Dax Shepard?

  Now, are you offended by that question? Are you like, I get it.

• 1:02:33Speaker 02

  Well, I get it. I'm annoyed by it. I'm like, ah, come on, guys. But I get it, but it's also like, I'm a functioning adult and I've never walked around smelling like, you know.

• 1:02:44Dax Shepard?

  No one thinks that. In fact, everyone thinks you smell so good. It begs the question, how are you wiping your tush?

• 1:02:49Speaker 02

  Very well.

• 1:02:50Speaker 01

  They're saying, what they're saying when they're asking is I would never be able to wipe properly. It's a problem with them.

• 1:02:56Speaker 02

  That's a problem with them. And here's the thing, there are people who do not have nails who need to check how they're wiping.

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  Big time.

• 1:03:02Speaker 02

  You know what I'm saying?

• 1:03:03Dax Shepard?

  This isn't a pass on everyone without nails, by any stretch. So everyone's asking that question.

• 1:03:09Speaker 02

  Everyone's asking that question.

• 1:03:10Dax Shepard?

  I kind of thought everyone would think that, but not be bold.

• 1:03:12Speaker 02

  No, no, people are bold. They are.

• 1:03:14Dax Shepard?

  I knew you could handle it. I knew you could hash it out.

• 1:03:15Speaker 02

  How do you get anything done with those nails? And I'm like, I mean, I'm here.

• 1:03:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I got here somehow.

• 1:03:21Speaker 02

  I'm dressed.

• 1:03:23Dax Shepard?

  I love them. I was just thinking of the ergonomics in that exact situation.

• 1:03:26Speaker 02

  Thank you so much. But yeah, because the nails would change with the scene. Sometimes you would shoot two different things in one day, so the nails will change in the middle of the day.

• 1:03:33Dax Shepard?

  Can we go back in time for a second?

• 1:03:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:35Dax Shepard?

  You originally went to University of East London.

• 1:03:39Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 1:03:39Dax Shepard?

  And you were majoring in psychology of music or music psychology? What is music psychology?

• 1:03:46Speaker 02

  It is the study of the way in which music affects the psychological state of a person based on where they live, their social standing. What's the word I'm looking for? Based on like elitism?

• 1:03:59Dax Shepard?

  Socioeconomic standing, yeah.

• 1:04:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, status. And then when you get down to the final points of it, what is within music itself? So the way in which the note structures can affect the way a person hears the music and what it does to a person's mood and a person's psyche. So this is sort of layman's terms. If you hear a song in a minor key and the lyrics happen to be sad or without lyrics, it tends to evoke a sad emotion. Or if you hear music with a major key, even if the lyrics are sad, you will evoke a happy mood.

• 1:04:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:30Speaker 02

  There's a song, and I hate to pick this, but I pick it because it's the one thing on my mind and she's with me all the time. A song called "One Last Time" that Ariana Grande has. One last time, I need to be the one that takes you home.

• 1:04:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:43Dax Shepard?

  I'm so happy. I was praying you would sing at least for a second and you just did. So thank you.

• 1:04:50Speaker 05

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 1:04:57Dax Shepard?

  We get support from ZipRecruiter. Oh, get recruiting. So I went down this rabbit hole the other day on real holiday jobs that exist and I couldn't stop. Somebody out there is hiring a ham glazer, a professional ham glazer. Another place is hiring a lead elf, implying a whole hierarchy of elves I had never even considered. Here's the thing, these jobs need real skills. People like that are hard to find. And whether you're hiring for one of these roles or any other role, the best way to find qualified people who are genuinely excited about your role is on ZipRecruiter. And right now you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/dax. Plus, ZipRecruiter has a new feature that

• 1:05:38Dax Shepard?

  shows you the most interested qualified candidates first, so you meet the right people faster. No wonder ZipRecruiter is the number one rated hiring site based on G2. Let ZipRecruiter find the right people for your roles, seasonal or otherwise. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/dax. At ziprecruiter.com/dax, meet your match on ZipRecruiter.

• 1:06:04Dax Shepard?

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• 1:06:30Speaker 01

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• 1:07:09Speaker 01

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• 1:07:27Dax Shepard?

  This episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. Look, I have my dream job. I get to talk to folks I admire like crazy and ask them virtually any question that I want to. I can't imagine a better way to spend my time. But even dream jobs have some not-so-dreamy parts, the stuff that gets in the way of the actual work. Now that's where ServiceNow's AI specialists come in. They don't just tell you what you should do about your busy work, they actually do it, start to finish. Cases closed, requests handled, no extra work for you. So you and your team can focus on what matters most, which for me is, are they obsessed with male bodies on the same level as I am?

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

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• 1:08:10Dax Shepard?

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• 1:09:09Dax Shepard?

  If you want to sing more at any point, let me know.

• 1:09:11Speaker 02

  But her version, which is the seminal version, is in a major key and is up-tempo. When you hear it, you don't realize that it's actually a heartbreak song. People dance.

• 1:09:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:24Speaker 02

  Then there is a band called Third Story, who changed the key and took the tempo right down.

• 1:09:30Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 1:09:31Speaker 02

  And now it becomes a heartbreak song.

• 1:09:33Speaker 01

  And now people are crying.

• 1:09:33Speaker 02

  And now you make people cry.

• 1:09:34Speaker 01

  Whoa, that's fascinating.

• 1:09:37Dax Shepard?

  It is, and do you find there's two different camps of people? So Monica and I are in different camps. I'm obsessed with music. It's a huge part of my life. But it's generally the music. The singing, sure. It's not the lyrics for me.

• 1:09:47Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 1:09:48Dax Shepard?

  And so Monica's heavily driven by lyrics. I have even shared a couple of songs with Monica, and she'll be like, well, this song's a real bummer. And I'm like, it is? And then I look, oh, yeah, it's kind of about battered.

• 1:09:59Speaker 01

  Look at the words.

• 1:09:59Speaker 02

  Right, right, right, right.

• 1:10:00Dax Shepard?

  And I completely missed it.

• 1:10:01Speaker 02

  I'm the camp that sits right in between.

• 1:10:03Dax Shepard?

  Ah, yes, you should.

• 1:10:04Speaker 02

  Because I think both of those things have inherent value. Let's take Mozart's Lacrimosa. Nobody knows what those lyrics are. Lacrimosa means to cry. But you wouldn't know that unless you go and look up the lyrics and you know Latin.

• 1:10:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:10:17Speaker 02

  But you know that the music itself is deeply sad. Da, da, da, da, da. Da, da, da, da, da. That's what it sounds like. So it's sad.

• 1:10:30Dax Shepard?

  You know you're sad.

• 1:10:30Speaker 02

  But the lyrics, though they mean to cry, it is actually about forgiveness in a way. You know, so it's actually not a sad song necessarily.

• 1:10:40Dax Shepard?

  It's a double trick.

• 1:10:40Speaker 02

  Which is why I'm in both camps. Because even the happiest song can actually mean something very, very different. We can dance when we're happy. We can dance when we're sad. Both have value. Like, I'll listen to the lyrics all day long, but sometimes I just want to hear the music. Sometimes it's the music that moves me.

• 1:10:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. One of the most interesting things about music to me, this is what I studied in college, which is cultural anthropology. I'll be in other countries and I'm listening to the music that everybody loves. And I'm like, how on earth do they like this music?

• 1:11:08Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 1:11:09Dax Shepard?

  It's so cultural. Largely when I'm in Mexico and I hear that it is all German inspired. Their musical genre in Mexico is polka drive.

• 1:11:18Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 1:11:19Dax Shepard?

  So the boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And I go like, yeah, if I grew up in Mexico, I would love this music.

• 1:11:24Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 1:11:25Dax Shepard?

  And that is fascinating. You think a music somehow objective to some degree, and it's not.

• 1:11:31Speaker 02

  I think it's what's really interesting about what's happening with, there's a musical Afrobeat, which is happening right now, and it seems to be growing tentacles and spreading out everywhere. Whereas before, I grew up with it and it's developed and it evolves and it changes ever so much. So it's become a little bit popularized. But if you go back 50 years, the rhythms are still very similar. The tonal qualities are still very similar. So you still hear the same types of notation, but lyrically it becomes different and the way we've put it together has become different and young people have started to listen to it. That was why I was interested in this particular subject, but I think I was too early for it. I needed to go and do the thing I'm meant to do, which is this.

• 1:12:10Dax Shepard?

  Because you bailed, right?

• 1:12:11Speaker 02

  I didn't even go to RADA straight away. I went to like a young actors company program at a local theater because I was like, I'm not doing this. I don't think this is right for me. So I left and I went to this young actors company and at the young actors company, I was, I mean, I use the word forced fondly to go and study at the Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts. And I say it because this wonderful mentor of mine would not allow me to do this particular program unless I signed up for an audition.

• 1:12:38Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:12:39Dax Shepard?

  She blackmailed you.

• 1:12:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. She was like, you sign up for an audition, you come to this. You don't, you can't. And I was like.

• 1:12:47Speaker 01

  Good for her.

• 1:12:48Speaker 02

  Fine. But grudgingly signed in to do an audition thinking, this will be short-lived, it's not gonna happen, I'm not gonna get in, we're caught.

• 1:12:56Dax Shepard?

  Really quick, why didn't you wanna go there?

• 1:12:57Speaker 02

  There was no point because I was not gonna get in.

• 1:12:59Dax Shepard?

  Okay, there we go.

• 1:12:59Speaker 02

  I was not gonna get in.

• 1:13:00Speaker 01

  I'm just asking to get rejected.

• 1:13:02Speaker 02

  You mean me, a girl from southwest London who moved to east London is now gonna go to the Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts? In what world? That's a nonsense idea.

• 1:13:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:10Speaker 02

  No one's ever flagged it for me before, so why on earth? It's not gonna happen. And then I got in.

• 1:13:15Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:13:16Dax Shepard?

  And did you like it immediately? Cause you're now the vice president?

• 1:13:19Speaker 02

  I...

• 1:13:19Dax Shepard?

  What does that mean?

• 1:13:20Speaker 01

  You are?

• 1:13:21Dax Shepard?

  Is that a ceremonial position? How on earth do you have time to be a vice president of a fucking college? This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

• 1:13:30Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 1:13:30Speaker 02

  It's so, I swear to you, it's the most ridiculous thing in the world. Because here's the thing, my time at RADA was not easy. I was the oddball, I was a true east London girl who just was myself. And I was like the one girl who really loved music. And like I left, I was gonna do a backing vocal gig before I came to the school that was gonna pay for the school, and they said no. I was doing gigs at night and I was the only person that was doing that kind of thing in this school. So I really had figured out my jobs.

• 1:13:59Dax Shepard?

  This is John Batiste too, do you remember when, he's at Juilliard?

• 1:14:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:14:02Dax Shepard?

  And he wants to be performing with us.

• 1:14:03Speaker 01

  This is, for people who are in America and don't know, it is Juilliard, basically.

• 1:14:07Speaker 02

  Yes, correct.

• 1:14:07Speaker 01

  It's the same level.

• 1:14:08Speaker 02

  It's the same space, the same level.

• 1:14:09Dax Shepard?

  It had Royal in the title and I assumed that.

• 1:14:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, they might have some sort of connection.

• 1:14:13Speaker 02

  I think they have a little connection. If not, I'm trying to make it happen.

• 1:14:16Speaker 01

  Ooh, we like that.

• 1:14:17Dax Shepard?

  That should be one of your tasks as vice president.

• 1:14:19Speaker 02

  I've given it to myself, I think that might be a really good idea. Like exchange studenting maybe, kind of thing.

• 1:14:24Dax Shepard?

  Sure, some professor swaps?

• 1:14:25Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 1:14:26Dax Shepard?

  Everyone wants six months in London.

• 1:14:27Speaker 02

  Here's the thing, I would go to Juilliard and sit and chat with the students, cause I do actually teach at RADA.

• 1:14:33Dax Shepard?

  You do?

• 1:14:33Speaker 01

  Wow, you currently teach?

• 1:14:34Speaker 02

  I currently teach.

• 1:14:36Dax Shepard?

  Oh my god.

• 1:14:36Speaker 01

  What in the world?

• 1:14:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:38Dax Shepard?

  You're gonna kill yourself.

• 1:14:40Speaker 01

  Dax is worried about your time. Are you the type that'll just run yourself into the ground?

• 1:14:44Speaker 02

  I try not to, but I think it's gonna happen. I think it's gonna happen this year.

• 1:14:49Dax Shepard?

  This is the year.

• 1:14:50Speaker 01

  It's a lot.

• 1:14:51Dax Shepard?

  For your collapse.

• 1:14:51Speaker 02

  I do think it's gonna happen because there's just like a lot going on. And I'm actively trying to work at RADA and do the things I need to do. Because I don't believe in taking on a title if you're actually not gonna do the work. I vehemently detest that. I don't want to be the vice president just because.

• 1:15:05Speaker 01

  Ceremonial.

• 1:15:06Speaker 02

  I'm not interested. And I know that there's stuff to be done. And I also love working with the students at RADA. And I try and get there every year for at least a week intensive workshop with the third year students. What I want to do is meet them in the first year, have a little time with them in the second, and then have the intensive in the third. So there is something that they work with.

• 1:15:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:29Speaker 02

  Throughout. They're not just meeting me the first time in the third year. But now they'll see me more often because, well, I'm there.

• 1:15:34Dax Shepard?

  I want to ask you a very inappropriate question.

• 1:15:37Speaker 02

  Go.

• 1:15:38Dax Shepard?

  Were you in love with any of your teachers?

• 1:15:39Speaker 02

  In love as in in love?

• 1:15:41Speaker 01

  Crushes?

• 1:15:41Dax Shepard?

  Like, well, okay.

• 1:15:43Speaker 01

  I was in love with one of mine.

• 1:15:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, Monica was in love with one of her teachers.

• 1:15:46Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:15:47Dax Shepard?

  Still pines for.

• 1:15:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know what he's up to these days, but boy, was he attractive and so smart.

• 1:15:54Dax Shepard?

  Did you have any crushes on your teachers?

• 1:15:56Speaker 02

  I don't think so.

• 1:15:57Dax Shepard?

  You didn't. That's fair. I didn't have any on mine either.

• 1:16:00Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:16:01Speaker 01

  The theater space is very intimate, though.

• 1:16:03Dax Shepard?

  I was only gonna ask, like, if I was teaching at 37 at a college, I think I would be mildly like, oh, Jesus, does this person have a crush? Because there's a weird magic to the whole thing.

• 1:16:12Speaker 02

  I'm gonna ignore any of it.

• 1:16:13Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 1:16:14Speaker 02

  I'm gonna be like, don't know, don't wanna know.

• 1:16:17Speaker 01

  Not paying attention to that.

• 1:16:19Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you have me confused with a human. I am an acting teaching robot.

• 1:16:22Speaker 02

  I'm also aware of what I'm walking into the school with.

• 1:16:25Dax Shepard?

  I think I'd fall in love with you.

• 1:16:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, you are coming in.

• 1:16:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I think I would.

• 1:16:28Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:16:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:29Speaker 02

  But I don't know that people would fall in love with me as a me. I think they're falling in love with the idea.

• 1:16:34Dax Shepard?

  But aren't people always falling in love with the idea of the other person?

• 1:16:37Speaker 02

  I guess.

• 1:16:37Speaker 01

  We fight about this all the time.

• 1:16:40Speaker 02

  I think so. I think people fall in love with the idea of a person until they allow themselves to fall in love with the actual person.

• 1:16:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, with great luck.

• 1:16:47Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:16:47Dax Shepard?

  You end up falling in love with the real person. But more often, you go, oh, no, this whole thing was a projection.

• 1:16:52Speaker 01

  But then if you're on the other side of it, if you're Cynthia, then you're like, oh, this person's in love with me. And then you run the risk of them fighting. Finding out about the real you and then being like, oh, I'm not interested in that.

• 1:17:02Dax Shepard?

  But she'll be doing the same to that person because that person would have captivated some other fantasy and imagination. So it'd be complimentary, I think.

• 1:17:08Speaker 02

  But when it comes to the school of it all, I'm here to teach you and take you through and help you.

• 1:17:13Dax Shepard?

  I shouldn't have even asked you that question. You're in a compromised position as the dean of this school.

• 1:17:18Speaker 02

  I would never. I'm also aware of what I walk in the room with. I know that there's a lot and I think I'm getting used to what that even is.

• 1:17:26Dax Shepard?

  I'm going to suggest someone more likely would think they're in love with you, but what they're in love with is they want to be you. You'd be very aspirational. It's like, I want to be an empowered woman who's got a Tony and a Grammy. And so you would represent some kind of fantasy wish fulfillment and that could be misinterpreted as love as well.

• 1:17:44Speaker 02

  And the thing is, I would say to that person, you do not want to be me. You want to be the best version of yourself. You don't know if you want to do all the things or go through all the things I've already been through. My shit's made for me.

• 1:17:56Dax Shepard?

  But when you're at that age, you really.

• 1:17:58Speaker 02

  You can't tell. Yeah, it's hard. It's hard.

• 1:18:00Dax Shepard?

  Nicolas Cage.

• 1:18:01Speaker 02

  And I want to be that. I think for me, in a perfect world, I think I would be like the love child of Cicely Tyson and Barbra Streisand.

• 1:18:07Dax Shepard?

  Who's Cicely Tyson? I'm so sorry. I'm very sorry with all apologies.

• 1:18:12Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:18:12Dax Shepard?

  You don't either?

• 1:18:13Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:18:13Dax Shepard?

  Thank fucking god. I was sure it was a white guy thing.

• 1:18:15Speaker 02

  I was gonna leave you out. You gotta look her up. She passed away a few years ago at like the age of 94, I think it was.

• 1:18:22Dax Shepard?

  That's good.

• 1:18:22Speaker 02

  96? She made it to 96?

• 1:18:25Dax Shepard?

  What a quitter. She almost made it to 100.

• 1:18:26Speaker 02

  We really wanted her to get to 100 and she was strong. She was one of the most incredible actresses ever.

• 1:18:32Dax Shepard?

  British?

• 1:18:33Speaker 02

  American.

• 1:18:34Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 1:18:34Speaker 02

  And she shaved her head just like me.

• 1:18:36Dax Shepard?

  Ah.

• 1:18:37Speaker 02

  I read her autobiography. It's the most fascinating thing. She had a torrid relationship with Miles Davis.

• 1:18:43Dax Shepard?

  Oh, that's a wild ride.

• 1:18:46Speaker 02

  She tells you all about that. She was in Sounder. She was in Roots. Most people probably know her best for How to Get Away with Murder. She was Annalise Keating's mother.

• 1:18:54Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:18:55Speaker 02

  But she's just brilliant. The way she used her hair as a statement constantly throughout her life was just really inspiring. So whether it was doing bantu knots or getting it corn rolled or shaving it off or leaving it as a. Afro. There's a really beautiful image of her when she is nominated, I think, four sounder for the Oscar, where she goes with like flowers in her hair. She's special, special, special. So that combination of her and Barbra Streisand, and Barbra Streisand I picked because of the Renaissance woman effect that she has over her own life and the way in which she was able to translate music and song and acting and do all of this vast arena of things.

• 1:19:36Dax Shepard?

  She's one of our few, I always say this about Taylor Swift, when people try to figure out, what is the magic that's happening? For me, a big part seems like, at least through my little girl's eyes, is that she is a fully formed, self-created matriarchy. And I would argue Barbara was an early, like, created her own matriarchy world around herself. I can see that as inspirational.

• 1:19:56Speaker 01

  It seems like you are the combination of them, and especially Renaissance, you're the vice president.

• 1:20:02Dax Shepard?

  You're an academic.

• 1:20:03Speaker 01

  You're covering a lot of ground.

• 1:20:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, leave some for the rest of us, bro. With all this said, how mentally prepared do you feel like you are for Wicked? Because I can't imagine you are.

• 1:20:15Speaker 02

  I want to kid myself and be like, I'm really ready for it. I think in a way I am, but there's always the aspect that you have no idea what's coming. You can't have the future. I have no idea what this will be, full stop. But I think I'm open. That's as far as I can take myself. I'm open to the possibilities of what this might be. I'm very, very, very grateful for the chance to do something of this magnitude, because it doesn't come along often.

• 1:20:48Dax Shepard?

  No. I feel like I have some insight into what you're gonna go through, which is, I think this thing will be what Frozen was.

• 1:20:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:56Dax Shepard?

  And I think you'll have parents for the next five years coming up and complaining to you that their kid will not stop listening to a certain song over and over and over again.

• 1:21:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:21:05Dax Shepard?

  And then I think you'll have a lot of parents bringing over young children to meet you at the table, but the children have no fucking clue what's going on. I don't understand what you're telling me.

• 1:21:14Speaker 01

  That's the part that's gonna be different and harder, perhaps, because when it happens to Kristen, sometimes the kids are like, what? That's not her.

• 1:21:21Dax Shepard?

  Elsa's a cartoon. What are you talking about?

• 1:21:23Speaker 01

  You're a person, and they're gonna see you as a person.

• 1:21:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:21:27Dax Shepard?

  Thank God you're not green.

• 1:21:28Speaker 02

  I know, in real life.

• 1:21:30Dax Shepard?

  You should fuck around one time, just go out as green. When this thing really peaks. You should go set up shop at a cheesecake factory.

• 1:21:36Speaker 02

  Oh my goodness. Can you imagine? Insane.

• 1:21:41Dax Shepard?

  So I guess I have one remaining question about kind of how you got to this place. Cause we didn't talk about your childhood as much as I like to.

• 1:21:47Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:21:48Dax Shepard?

  How old were you when mom and dad got divorced?

• 1:21:50Speaker 02

  Mom and dad didn't get divorced. They were never married.

• 1:21:52Dax Shepard?

  They were never married.

• 1:21:53Speaker 02

  But I was 16 when my dad decided not to be a part of my life.

• 1:21:58Dax Shepard?

  How frequently were you seeing him?

• 1:22:00Speaker 02

  Maybe two or three times a week. His choice. My mom was really, I think, kind.

• 1:22:06Dax Shepard?

  And not talk shit about him to you?

• 1:22:08Speaker 02

  Ever. Never.

• 1:22:08Dax Shepard?

  That's so nice. My mom did that as well. And as you get older, don't you respect it even more?

• 1:22:12Speaker 02

  I completely respect it.

• 1:22:13Dax Shepard?

  It almost seems impossible.

• 1:22:15Speaker 02

  I honestly can't believe it. And gave him the space to come and visit if he wanted to. We would go over to his from time to time as well. She like really made the space for us. If he wanted to build a relationship, to build a relationship, and he just didn't.

• 1:22:28Dax Shepard?

  Was he struggling with stuff?

• 1:22:30Speaker 02

  No, I think he just was not set up to be a dad. I don't think it was his bag.

• 1:22:34Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:22:34Speaker 02

  I read Jada Pinkett Smith's book and there is a section in the book where she talks about her father. And it really clicked for me when I read this part. She said that there are some parents who are meant to be parents. They're meant to shepherd their children into the world. Make sure that they are taken care of and they are good with them. And there are other parents who are meant to literally get them here. Yeah. And that is it. And we can't forget that each parent is still a human being. They are a human being before they're a parent. And I'm okay. That made everything really clear for me. And it doesn't remove hurts and pain that I had been through and have worked to work through.

• 1:23:15Dax Shepard?

  Does it materialize in relationships?

• 1:23:18Speaker 02

  I think it did.

• 1:23:19Dax Shepard?

  But you have your arms around it now.

• 1:23:21Speaker 02

  But yeah, thank goodness for good therapists.

• 1:23:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:24Speaker 02

  That shit really helps.

• 1:23:25Dax Shepard?

  Were you generally attracted to people? You had some subconscious notion that they were gonna abandon you?

• 1:23:30Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:23:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Unavailable people.

• 1:23:33Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:23:35Dax Shepard?

  Isn't it funny how fucking generic is this? Like, oh, what's the situation with this kid? Okay, I'll tell you exactly what's gonna happen in 12 years.

• 1:23:41Speaker 02

  You know that they're predisposed to like actually go. Away at some point.

• 1:23:44Dax Shepard?

  You sense it somehow. The second you're so hot for somebody, there's some parental damage underneath of it.

• 1:23:51Speaker 02

  That's correct. It's ridiculous. Until you get your head around it and you get some control on what it is that you're actually looking for, what you're trying to fix in that, it just will keep going.

• 1:24:02Dax Shepard?

  And do you agree? I had to go, oh, wow, I actually have to actively go the opposite direction of what I want. I gotta experiment with that.

• 1:24:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I had to be alone for a second. I have to figure out what the heck this is. What am I running away from? What do I want for myself? And also, I think I was using for a small amount of time, my career as a conduit to like, find a way to get him back.

• 1:24:25Dax Shepard?

  Sure. Look what you've missed.

• 1:24:28Speaker 02

  You missed.

• 1:24:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's a great engine.

• 1:24:30Speaker 02

  Look what you gave up. Look what you gave up. You're gonna regret leaving this. That kind of thing.

• 1:24:36Dax Shepard?

  What a great motivator that is.

• 1:24:37Speaker 02

  It's fantastic until it doesn't work anymore.

• 1:24:39Dax Shepard?

  That's right.

• 1:24:40Speaker 02

  Until it leaves you empty and you're like, what am I actually doing this for? I've not done this for myself and now I have to figure out how to do this for myself.

• 1:24:46Dax Shepard?

  Well, I think one of the great tricks in life that everyone has to figure out is what got you to the party, isn't what's gonna keep you at the party. And it's so hard to accept that or believe in that.

• 1:24:57Speaker 02

  We got to try something else now.

• 1:24:58Dax Shepard?

  New fuel source.

• 1:24:59Speaker 02

  Let's change direction. Pivot. Let's go somewhere else now.

• 1:25:03Dax Shepard?

  All blessings to this thing, but it's actually gonna get you asked to leave.

• 1:25:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:07Dax Shepard?

  So you seem to have the same, Kristen has a really, really in-depth knowledge of music and reading music and all the math that's associated with music. Where did you learn that? Did you learn that at Royal Academy?

• 1:25:19Speaker 02

  I learnt it at secondary school or high school.

• 1:25:22Dax Shepard?

  You went to a Catholic school?

• 1:25:23Speaker 02

  I did. So my music teacher there, Miss Ryecroft, who is so awesome, no one really understood her, but I really got her. She would pretend to be like this curmudgeonly teacher who just didn't like people, but actually she was the funniest, most brilliant, most kind teacher to me ever. She was like, oh, I have your number.

• 1:25:44Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:25:45Speaker 02

  I know what you are. You are a musician and I'm gonna make sure that you're always a musician. I see you. I was like quickly accosted. And I learnt to play the clarinets. I learnt to read music that way. And then she got me a viola, so I started doing that too. And I can't play any of these anymore, but it meant that I could really actually read music. And I did music proficiency, all of that stuff and did graded tests, the whole lot. Singing was happening in concert with all of that. They had a choir. I don't know how this happened, and I think it's because of Miss Ryecraft. And strangely enough, my science teacher, Mr. Saffo Jay, who somehow put this together, we started singing with a big choir in the UK.

• 1:26:28Speaker 02

  And we would do like requiems every year. I loved doing that because of the big sound of all these voices together.

• 1:26:34Dax Shepard?

  What's a requiem? My apologies.

• 1:26:35Speaker 02

  So a requiem is a huge choral piece with all the voices, tenors, bass, soprano, alto, metesoprano. And occasionally you'll have recitatives in between where they're like solo lines that would end up with big choral numbers. And usually it's a long piece written but separated by particular movements. We did Carmina Brana and Carmina Brana, you wouldn't know the name, you would know the sound of Carmina Brana.

• 1:27:13Speaker 01

  We're gonna pretend like we don't know it, so you just keep going.

• 1:27:16Dax Shepard?

  I don't know what you're doing. I bet if you do ten more measures, I might get it.

• 1:27:19Speaker 02

  Have you ever watched Romeo and Juliet, the Baz Lemon version? That musical, big choral thing is that. And we did another piece called The Rutter Requiem by John Rutter. And that is one of my favorite pieces ever. But it contains a piece called P A Yesu, and there are like three different P A Yesus. But these are the pieces that we would do. That's how I learnt about classical singing. And so she made me learn Schubert Lieder, the whole lot. So I expanded my classical taste in music at secondary school. Whilst running alongside with everything else and learning how my voice worked elsewhere. And just my outside love of music anyways. And my mom is playing Aretha Franklin and Diana Ross in the car.

• 1:28:00Dax Shepard?

  Erika Baudou.

• 1:28:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I'm learning all of the, what was my auntie?

• 1:28:03Dax Shepard?

  Can we sing Window Seat?

• 1:28:04Speaker 02

  Have I got a window seat? Don't want nobody next to me.

• 1:28:10Dax Shepard?

  I just wanna.

• 1:28:11Speaker 02

  I love it.

• 1:28:12Dax Shepard?

  I love Erykah Badu.

• 1:28:13Speaker 02

  She's brilliant. She's one of the artist singers that has gotten better and better and better as time has gone on. I just recently saw her in concert in London.

• 1:28:23Dax Shepard?

  How late was she? Cause I've seen her four times.

• 1:28:25Speaker 02

  She wasn't that late.

• 1:28:26Dax Shepard?

  I don't believe you one bit.

• 1:28:27Speaker 02

  No, she wasn't.

• 1:28:27Dax Shepard?

  She wasn't. Maybe she was still on American time.

• 1:28:29Speaker 02

  She wasn't late. I think she was maybe like 20 minutes, 10 minutes or something.

• 1:28:33Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:28:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:34Dax Shepard?

  I've waited three hours to see her and I didn't care.

• 1:28:36Speaker 02

  On. It was amazing.

• 1:28:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, good.

• 1:28:39Speaker 02

  Puma came out as well. It was so good. There's an artist called Duran Benar. He does her backing vocals, but he's an amazing vocalist on his own. He was out. It was amazing. I went with my sister, my best friend. We had the best time.

• 1:28:54Dax Shepard?

  She's a force.

• 1:28:54Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh. She had her jewelry and her hat. She had these really cool trousers, pants that were like chaps, actually, but had like teddy bears on. It was just wild. The whole thing was wild. I was obsessed. It was brilliant. But yeah, that's how my proficiency for music, because I've had such a vast experience of it from loads of different sources onwards.

• 1:29:14Dax Shepard?

  Now, you said the highlight is being in the stage and having that open line of communication with the audience. It's really happening. So I'm wondering, the moment in the requiem.

• 1:29:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:29:22Dax Shepard?

  Do you experience something in that insane mass of harmony that can compete with the other solo thing?

• 1:29:29Speaker 02

  There's like 30 to 40 voices singing at once.

• 1:29:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:33Speaker 02

  Or at the top of their voices.

• 1:29:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:36Speaker 02

  In harmony.

• 1:29:38Dax Shepard?

  It'll be like MDMA.

• 1:29:39Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh. There's nothing like it. And it's ringing in your ears, but you can feel it in the back of your head at the same time. It's like a short circuit. And sometimes it's what I feel when an orchestra is playing all together. There's nothing like it.

• 1:29:53Dax Shepard?

  You do realize how lucky you are, y'all.

• 1:29:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:55Dax Shepard?

  I mean, really, you're having an experience on planet Earth that really very few people can ever touch.

• 1:30:01Speaker 02

  My experience is sort of enhanced by the fact that I experience anesthesia. So I see color.

• 1:30:06Dax Shepard?

  You have that.

• 1:30:07Speaker 02

  I see color when I hear music. So for me, it's like

• 1:30:10Dax Shepard?

  You're on acid.

• 1:30:11Speaker 02

  sensory thing.

• 1:30:14Dax Shepard?

  We understand that we are story creatures. We understand that we passed on our culture and our knowledge through story. We're starting to really understand it neurologically, but we haven't really cracked what music is.

• 1:30:24Speaker 02

  You can talk about the science all day long and what it is and sound waves and all of that. But actually, we can't really crack the code on why it affects people the way it does. We can't crack how this piece connects with that person, but doesn't connect with this person. Why do we all understand this particular language? We might speak it differently, but there are a finite amount of notes.

• 1:30:45Dax Shepard?

  My uncle, who went to Juilliard, who was a trumpet player, he told me, yeah, mathematically, every single song's already been written.

• 1:30:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:30:50Dax Shepard?

  There'll never be a new piece of music. That's so wild.

• 1:30:53Speaker 02

  The notes are the same. It's just how we experience it. Why do we experience it like that?

• 1:30:57Dax Shepard?

  I think part of it is it seemingly has absolutely no purpose.

• 1:31:02Speaker 02

  Right. But it does.

• 1:31:04Dax Shepard?

  It does.

• 1:31:05Speaker 01

  The most important purpose.

• 1:31:06Dax Shepard?

  But it seems like a weird thing for a human to do at any given time.

• 1:31:10Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:31:11Dax Shepard?

  And there's something, I think, just starting with that premise, which is like, this serves no purpose, is interesting. So we know we're doing it for some other calling. It's like the closest we have to touching something kind of mystical.

• 1:31:22Speaker 02

  I believe that. This might sound like the nerdiest thing I've ever said, but my favorite scale is chromatic.

• 1:31:28Dax Shepard?

  Say it again?

• 1:31:32Speaker 02

  All the notes in between, a chromatic scale.

• 1:31:35Dax Shepard?

  A chromatic scale.

• 1:31:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, because it leaves none of the notes out.

• 1:31:38Speaker 01

  Ooh. But it's not just humans, animals sing.

• 1:31:43Speaker 02

  Yes, they do.

• 1:31:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:44Dax Shepard?

  They won't shut the fuck up. Whales.

• 1:31:46Speaker 02

  Whales. They're all tonal. Notes and music, however you experience it, it's the one thing that connects every single being on the planet. It's the one thing we all have in common.

• 1:31:58Dax Shepard?

  And you're doing it at like the apex level.

• 1:31:59Speaker 01

  Lucky girl.

• 1:32:00Speaker 02

  Thank you. Thank you for saying that.

• 1:32:02Dax Shepard?

  Put too fine a point on how great Wicked is. It's outrageous.

• 1:32:06Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:32:06Speaker 01

  We don't love musicals in general, and we say that publicly, which is equal to me saying I don't like dogs, which is also true. But man, did it get me.

• 1:32:18Dax Shepard?

  When you're experiencing some lip from somebody, you have to go through such a long list. You're like, is it because I'm a woman? Is it I'm small? Is it I'm Indian? Is it I hate dogs? Is it I hate musicals?

• 1:32:28Speaker 01

  I'm adding things by the second.

• 1:32:30Dax Shepard?

  You're not helping yourself figure out what's really going on. Anyway, what a delight to meet you, Cynthia. I really have enjoyed this immensely.

• 1:32:38Speaker 02

  This has been really fun.

• 1:32:39Dax Shepard?

  You gotta urge people to go to shit, but I don't. In fact, I could say like, whatever you do, do not go on November 22nd to see Wicked. And I know you'll be there.

• 1:32:47Speaker 01

  I bet everyone already has pre-booked their tickets.

• 1:32:48Speaker 02

  I hope so.

• 1:32:49Dax Shepard?

  Is it a secret when the second one will come out?

• 1:32:51Speaker 02

  The second one is coming out the same time next year.

• 1:32:54Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:32:55Speaker 02

  22nd of November next year.

• 1:32:56Dax Shepard?

  And you filmed them both at once, obviously?

• 1:32:57Speaker 02

  We filmed them both at once.

• 1:32:58Dax Shepard?

  How long did that take? A year?

• 1:32:59Speaker 02

  That took about a year. We started rehearsals August 2022, started shooting December.

• 1:33:07Dax Shepard?

  So four months of rehearsals?

• 1:33:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:09Dax Shepard?

  Wow.

• 1:33:10Speaker 02

  We needed it.

• 1:33:11Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 1:33:12Speaker 02

  It was a mammoth.

• 1:33:13Dax Shepard?

  Well, you're doing like a Broadway show.

• 1:33:14Speaker 02

  Started shooting it in December, came to a halt in June or July. I can't remember for the writing strike or actor's strike, both. And then came back top of this year in January, finished in February.

• 1:33:28Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:33:28Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow. And Ariana's fantastic.

• 1:33:32Speaker 02

  She's great. She's experienced a lot and she's a sweetheart. And what people don't realize is that she's experienced real heartbreak.

• 1:33:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:39Dax Shepard?

  Again, back to the thing we were talking about, trying to figure out everything. So yeah, you have a package, Monica has a package, I have a package. The perfect end of the package also sucks sometimes.

• 1:33:47Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:33:48Dax Shepard?

  It's like very hard to be sympathetic to someone who looks like her and has her career. And she's just as worthy of anyone's sympathy. You love her, right? I've heard you talk about her. You guys have really fallen in love.

• 1:33:58Speaker 02

  I love her. She's a bright spark, but you just wanna like,

• 1:34:02Speaker 01

  Take care of her.

• 1:34:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:03Speaker 02

  Give her a big old hug. And we really took care of each other. This was like a big one for us. We used to joke that the two of us were like dust by the end of it. Because we were working to the bone.

• 1:34:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:34:12Speaker 02

  I mean, whatever scratches, scrapes, cuts, bruises you think you could get, we had them. The flying in harnesses, chafing, we had it.

• 1:34:23Speaker 02

  Chafing was like a funny word to me until I realized what chafing actually looked like. When you had it repetitively.

• 1:34:32Dax Shepard?

  It's almost a bed sore at that point.

• 1:34:34Speaker 02

  My gosh.

• 1:34:36Speaker 02

  It took months for my hips to just heal. Scratched palms, bleeding, I had a bloody nose. Like, it was mad. We were in this the whole way. Outside, she's got basically her arms out all the time. When it's cold, it's cold. There's nothing you can do about it. You wanna fly outside? Okay, we're flying outside. Is it windy? Yes, tough. We're gonna do it anyway. Is it raining today? Yep. It won't show on camera, so we're gonna do it. That kind of thing. We were willing to do whatever it took to do this. You wanna be in at 3 a.m.? Be in at 3 a.m. We're gonna finish this makeup, because we need to be on set by 5.

• 1:35:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you know, in some weird way, it's lucky you did it at this age. If you tried to do this at 45 with this long ass career, you'd be like, I am not getting in that harness.

• 1:35:15Speaker 01

  Like, I know about chafing. I'm not doing it.

• 1:35:17Dax Shepard?

  And it's rare that I can ask women to feel bad for men, but I've spent a lot of time in harnesses too. Just put a penis and balls in that same harness as well as everything else that's going on. You're in it sometimes going, well, this can't be how it is, right? Like, this is probably gonna destroy my reproductive capabilities.

• 1:35:36Speaker 02

  But here's the thing. I'm gonna top you there. I'm gonna say, think of putting on a harness and then throw in a corset at the same time.

• 1:35:43Dax Shepard?

  No, thanks.

• 1:35:44Speaker 02

  Because the corset's already hitting your hips, right? And now you put the harness on top of the corset.

• 1:35:50Dax Shepard?

  And your ribs hurt.

• 1:35:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:35:52Speaker 01

  Everything's a mess.

• 1:35:52Dax Shepard?

  All right, you win. I adore you. I hope everyone goes and sees Wicked, November 22nd. And I hope we end up interviewing you a dozen more times as you promote other things. Wonderful.

• 1:36:01Speaker 02

  Can I come back even if I don't have to promote something?

• 1:36:03Dax Shepard?

  Yes, of course.

• 1:36:04Speaker 02

  This was fun.

• 1:36:05Dax Shepard?

  Also, Kristen has just started doing this thing on Sunday. She started a choir club.

• 1:36:09Speaker 02

  Oh, my goodness.

• 1:36:10Dax Shepard?

  So if you're ever here on Sunday, I'm sure she would love for you to come. And it's just a bunch of nerds like you guys fucking singing together.

• 1:36:17Speaker 02

  I would love that. A choir club?

• 1:36:20Speaker 01

  It's really cool.

• 1:36:21Speaker 02

  Do you know how lovely that would be?

• 1:36:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, because there's no point to it other than remembering that you love music.

• 1:36:26Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh. I would love that. I will. Thank you.

• 1:36:32Dax Shepard?

  I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode, but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong.

• 1:36:40Dax Shepard?

  What now?

• 1:36:42Speaker 01

  No, I will put it on do not disturb for you.

• 1:36:44Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I thought you had a bad update.

• 1:36:47Speaker 01

  No, I don't have a bad update. On a previous or upcoming, I'm not sure, Armchair Anonymous, you told me that you hate me because I don't put my phone on do not disturb.

• 1:36:59Dax Shepard?

  That is.

• 1:37:00Speaker 01

  That's how I heard it.

• 1:37:01Dax Shepard?

  That's how you heard it, okay. Okay.

• 1:37:03Speaker 01

  So now I have put it on do not disturb.

• 1:37:05Dax Shepard?

  I guess those people will have to listen to Armchair Anonymous and/or go back and listen if it already came out.

• 1:37:11Speaker 01

  You should go back and keep listening.

• 1:37:13Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:13Speaker 01

  Just in case.

• 1:37:14Dax Shepard?

  Because, of course, I remember it more of a playful, hey, is there anything like really trivial about each other that we want to air?

• 1:37:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, you tried to make it cutesy, but it wasn't.

• 1:37:26Dax Shepard?

  It wasn't so cutesy.

• 1:37:27Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:37:27Dax Shepard?

  But yeah, I inquired. By the way, you don't have a case on your phone.

• 1:37:31Speaker 01

  I know, because when I was Mary Kay and Ashley the Row era, I had to take the case off because they would never have a case.

• 1:37:38Dax Shepard?

  You're absolutely right. You can't look.

• 1:37:40Speaker 01

  You can't look like that.

• 1:37:41Dax Shepard?

  Like you're, you need to protect your phone. How low class.

• 1:37:44Speaker 01

  So embarrassing.

• 1:37:45Dax Shepard?

  Funny enough, someone in the comments had like, someone wrote like, totally off topic to the episode, but why aren't any of the people in TV shows or movies using a phone with a phone case on it? No one does this. And they were saying their anxiety of watching a phone in scenes without a case is a lot. So I said, you know, generally they have the permit, minimally the permission of the phone manufacturer. And so if the phone manufacturer is like, yes, you can use our product, and they probably supply products, they don't want it all obscured with a phone case.

• 1:38:23Speaker 01

  The phone company wants it without the case so that you can see what the phone company is.

• 1:38:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:29Speaker 01

  But if.

• 1:38:29Dax Shepard?

  I like that you're calling it a phone company.

• 1:38:31Speaker 01

  But if you don't have approval, you do have to have a phone case on because you have to cover up.

• 1:38:36Dax Shepard?

  Or they what they call what's Greek in it. We'll find out if that holds up. But you Greek things on a set too, or she's you obscure the logo a little bit.

• 1:38:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:46Dax Shepard?

  Put a little tape over this and that. You'll see a lot of, um, if people look closely, they'll see a lot of Mac computers being used in things with a little tape on it.

• 1:38:54Speaker 01

  Stickers or tape.

• 1:38:55Dax Shepard?

  Yep. Covering up that logo that, what a great logo, by the way. Not a sponsor.

• 1:38:59Speaker 01

  Not a sponsor.

• 1:39:00Dax Shepard?

  But what a cute apple.

• 1:39:02Speaker 01

  Although it's kind of.

• 1:39:03Dax Shepard?

  I'm looking directly at yours, of course.

• 1:39:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. And we don't.

• 1:39:05Dax Shepard?

  We have not greased it. No. My brother visited yesterday.

• 1:39:08Speaker 01

  How was it?

• 1:39:09Dax Shepard?

  For just, I don't know, 12 hours.

• 1:39:11Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:39:12Dax Shepard?

  Cause he was going on a cruise, leaving out of Long Beach. So he and, um, my sister in law, Tammy came from 1:00 PM till the evening and we went out to Cafe 101 slash Clark Street. It's not really Cafe 101 anymore. Had a lovely, uh, lunch, played spades, came back and then we wandered into here and we sat down and we just started chatting and it was, um, incredibly touching and connected. And we were talking about our childhoods together and realizations we have. And, uh, there was even some, some damp eyes at times.

• 1:39:53Speaker 01

  From both of you or just?

• 1:39:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:39:56Speaker 01

  Sweet.

• 1:39:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And it was, um, it was really, really, really special.

• 1:40:01Speaker 01

  Did you guys hug?

• 1:40:02Dax Shepard?

  Well, we hugged when he got here and then we hugged a long time when he left.

• 1:40:06Speaker 01

  But did you hug in, in the moment?

• 1:40:08Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 1:40:09Speaker 01

  That felt too much.

• 1:40:10Dax Shepard?

  Well, it just didn't feel terribly necessary. What we did is afterwards we played pickleball.

• 1:40:15Speaker 01

  That's fun. Okay. I do have a question about this. Like.

• 1:40:18Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:19Speaker 01

  When people, when you're around someone and they have damp eyes.

• 1:40:23Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:40:24Speaker 01

  Cause they're about to cry or they're crying a little bit.

• 1:40:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:26Speaker 01

  I don't really necessarily know how to handle that.

• 1:40:29Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 1:40:29Speaker 01

  Always. Like I know how to handle it with my words.

• 1:40:33Dax Shepard?

  Meaning you know how to say the right thing?

• 1:40:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:40:35Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:40:36Speaker 01

  But I don't because I didn't really grow up in an affectionate family, physically affectionate family.

• 1:40:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:41Speaker 01

  Like, I don't know if I should touch them or not.

• 1:40:44Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay. So specifically whether or not to touch them.

• 1:40:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. Do you?

• 1:40:48Dax Shepard?

  I don't feel a compulsion to touch people. And maybe this is arrogant, but when that happens to me, and it's generally a man. Like if it's happening and it's another man.

• 1:40:57Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:40:58Dax Shepard?

  I immediately feel super flattered.

• 1:41:02Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:41:03Dax Shepard?

  The main feeling I have is like, I'm so lucky.

• 1:41:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:07Dax Shepard?

  That this person feels comfortable doing this in front of me. It doesn't give me anxiety or like, I gotta do the right thing. To me, the right thing already happened, which is why they're doing it in front of you.

• 1:41:17Speaker 01

  But you don't feel the need to like, help or comfort?

• 1:41:20Dax Shepard?

  No, I don't feel any, well, I inevitably will comfort and just will be.

• 1:41:25Speaker 01

  Talk.

• 1:41:25Dax Shepard?

  Talking about whatever it is there, and I'll be hopefully dialed in and thoughtful and asking questions and.

• 1:41:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:33Dax Shepard?

  But I get no anxiety, but I understand the anxiety.

• 1:41:37Speaker 01

  I only, I get anxiety about to touch or not.

• 1:41:40Dax Shepard?

  It's just touching.

• 1:41:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:41Dax Shepard?

  Okay, your words are fine, as you said.

• 1:41:43Speaker 01

  Feel like sometimes I, I should like.

• 1:41:46Dax Shepard?

  Correct their hair.

• 1:41:48Speaker 01

  No, not correct their hair. That sounds awful.

• 1:41:50Dax Shepard?

  Brushing my, my brother's hair back behind his ear. I mean, doesn't have enough to tuck behind his ear? Not that he can't, he couldn't.

• 1:41:57Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:41:57Dax Shepard?

  He has very thick hair above his ears.

• 1:42:01Speaker 01

  What if he started playing with the ear and the hair in his ears?

• 1:42:04Dax Shepard?

  That's very sexual. I mean, so is, so is putting the hair behind the ear.

• 1:42:08Speaker 01

  It is.

• 1:42:09Dax Shepard?

  But no, I, I didn't, no.

• 1:42:11Speaker 01

  You don't need that.

• 1:42:12Dax Shepard?

  Now, a full breakdown?

• 1:42:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:15Dax Shepard?

  Yes, I would have probably moved over to that couch.

• 1:42:18Speaker 01

  And would you have put your arm around him?

• 1:42:20Dax Shepard?

  And hope that he wanted to hide his head in my shoulder.

• 1:42:23Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:42:24Dax Shepard?

  But that would have been a full breakdown.

• 1:42:26Speaker 01

  It needs to be like, really bad.

• 1:42:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I'm.

• 1:42:30Speaker 01

  I'm gonna write down the rules. Rob, do you like to touch people when they cry?

• 1:42:36Speaker 05

  I get like you, I get on, I don't know what to do.

• 1:42:39Dax Shepard?

  That would have been my guess.

• 1:42:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do.

• 1:42:44Dax Shepard?

  Rob, here's a question, Rob.

• 1:42:46Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 1:42:48Dax Shepard?

  So that, that totally makes sense for me.

• 1:42:50Speaker 06

  If it's Natalie, I know what to do.

• 1:42:52Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 1:42:52Speaker 06

  Other people.

• 1:42:53Dax Shepard?

  And your children.

• 1:42:54Speaker 01

  There's exceptions.

• 1:42:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. But Rob, do you think, and this, this sounds like I'm fishing for a compliment. I'm truly not. I'm just genuinely curious. We've been working nearly every day together for seven years. My, do you think my willingness to do that with men has at all like rubbed off on you?

• 1:43:15Speaker 06

  Yeah, probably.

• 1:43:16Dax Shepard?

  Little bit?

• 1:43:17Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:43:18Dax Shepard?

  Like, do you think, like, you would take a nice, long hug for me, right?

• 1:43:22Speaker 06

  Yeah, I would. I mean, I have friends that I would.

• 1:43:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:24Speaker 06

  It gets more.

• 1:43:25Dax Shepard?

  I'd love to hug you if you ever had a sad moment.

• 1:43:28Speaker 06

  If I needed to cry.

• 1:43:30Dax Shepard?

  Yes. If you want to schedule one, I'm totally available.

• 1:43:33Speaker 06

  I'll put it on the calendar.

• 1:43:35Speaker 01

  It depends on who it is and it depends on how often that exchange happens, like how often you're crying around.

• 1:43:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:42Speaker 01

  There are some people who've definitely never seen me cry, who I'm close to.

• 1:43:46Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 1:43:47Speaker 01

  And then there are others who see me cry a lot, you.

• 1:43:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, sure, sure.

• 1:43:50Speaker 01

  You've seen me cry a lot. Kristen's seen me cry a lot.

• 1:43:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. Callie, I presume? Or do you keep it buttoned up?

• 1:43:56Speaker 01

  No, she has. She, that's interesting, actually. I don't keep it buttoned up. She's definitely seen it.

• 1:44:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:03Speaker 01

  And heard it. But this is how I am with family. I have a very quick trigger to cry in front of my parents.

• 1:44:11Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you do?

• 1:44:12Speaker 01

  But I don't want to. So I'm always like trying to not, but it's like always right at the surface.

• 1:44:16Dax Shepard?

  That's the best kind when you're acting. And that's what you're supposed to do as an actor. You're supposed to try to not cry.

• 1:44:20Speaker 01

  Exactly. I learned that.

• 1:44:21Dax Shepard?

  Most of the time you're trying to cry really hard and then the second it starts in, you gotta act like you're not.

• 1:44:24Speaker 01

  And you're like trying to keep it together. I learned that in college.

• 1:44:27Dax Shepard?

  Acting 107.

• 1:44:28Speaker 01

  I did learn it in college. Yeah. So I'm always like, it's right there. Emotions are just so heightened with your family. I have similar feelings in, in this environment.

• 1:44:41Dax Shepard?

  Sure, sure.

• 1:44:41Speaker 01

  Where it's like, could happen at any time, the tears, the floodgates. I don't have that as much with her. I don't know why. It's not, it's not good or bad, I don't think.

• 1:44:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Erin and I used to, we had this, I mean, we did this so often, we would laugh at ourselves for doing it, which is, we would. Our thing was we drank with everybody, all of our friends. But he and I always went another three or four hours.

• 1:45:06Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:45:07Dax Shepard?

  Even from our, our most, you know, hard charging friends. There was always a few hours reserved for Aaron and I to just be together, really hammered at the end of the night. And we would start going through childhood and we would have a good cry while we were hammered.

• 1:45:24Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:45:24Dax Shepard?

  And we loved it. It was the only way we could.

• 1:45:28Speaker 01

  Talk about it.

• 1:45:29Dax Shepard?

  Yes. Get into all the stuff.

• 1:45:31Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:45:31Dax Shepard?

  And so like, we kind of needed it. And yet we only did it when we were super hammered. But luckily we were hammered all the time together. So yeah, we would do it. And then we would wake up and we'd just laugh like, oh yeah, we did that again. We just started crying together. While we were hammered.

• 1:45:48Speaker 01

  That's funny.

• 1:45:49Dax Shepard?

  I mean, it feels like somehow the, the subconscious was like, you gotta figure out a way to.

• 1:45:54Speaker 01

  This is your moment.

• 1:45:56Dax Shepard?

  However, it needs to happen. You do need to probably have some cries together.

• 1:46:00Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:46:01Dax Shepard?

  And I've held Aaron a lot, for sure.

• 1:46:04Speaker 01

  Aaron's very, very sensitive.

• 1:46:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so wonderfully sensitive. Isn't it funny? Sensitive is like a pejorative, but it's so.

• 1:46:11Speaker 01

  It's not to me. It's not to women.

• 1:46:13Dax Shepard?

  Someone who's not sensitive.

• 1:46:15Speaker 01

  That's a patriarchal thing because people say, think women are sensitive.

• 1:46:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:20Speaker 01

  So they've decided that's a negative thing.

• 1:46:22Dax Shepard?

  Women are sensitive.

• 1:46:23Speaker 01

  Thank God.

• 1:46:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Thank God. I know we need it so much.

• 1:46:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:27Dax Shepard?

  That's a great segue.

• 1:46:28Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:46:29Dax Shepard?

  I really wanted to promote the Martha Stewart documentary. Did you finish it?

• 1:46:33Speaker 01

  Not yet.

• 1:46:34Dax Shepard?

  I knew you wanted.

• 1:46:35Speaker 01

  We still have to talk about substance.

• 1:46:37Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:46:37Speaker 01

  We keep adding.

• 1:46:38Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Well, let's talk about, do you want to talk about substance first? I mean, we're here talking about women. I think I want to talk about, I want to talk about Martha Stewart.

• 1:46:45Speaker 01

  Today's a big, today's a, I know it's in a couple of weeks.

• 1:46:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:49Speaker 01

  That this is coming out, but today is a big day to talk about women.

• 1:46:52Dax Shepard?

  Why? Who is, oh, why?

• 1:46:54Speaker 01

  It's election day.

• 1:46:55Dax Shepard?

  I know, but it's.

• 1:46:57Speaker 01

  But it's not.

• 1:46:58Speaker 06

  Two weeks later.

• 1:46:59Speaker 01

  I know, but I can't act like I'm not thinking about it.

• 1:47:02Dax Shepard?

  Okay. I'm not going to prevent you from anything. So Martha Stewart, if I just start with my own. Of course, I knew who she was all growing up. She's been a, you know, a very prominent figure in culture forever. I remember when she became a billionaire. That was like very big news. And then her incarceration, which I thought was insider. Not only did I think it was insider trading, I think I thought that's what she went to prison for. I also thought it was insider trading of her own company. Neither of those things are true, which is fascinating. This is like an Amanda Knox story.

• 1:47:32Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 1:47:33Dax Shepard?

  And a Marion Jones story. This is another one. I bet we all remember it differently than what it actually was. But watching this doc, I admire her so much. And she's got some very unattractive sides to her.

• 1:47:48Speaker 01

  Big time.

• 1:47:49Dax Shepard?

  Which she kind of owns.

• 1:47:51Speaker 01

  Well, does she?

• 1:47:52Dax Shepard?

  Well.

• 1:47:53Speaker 01

  That's the part that that's.

• 1:47:54Dax Shepard?

  You gotta get, yeah, you gotta get deeper into it. It's a phenomenal doc. I really want to interview her, of course. And I think it's great. I recommend it. And I can't wait for you to finish it because we can talk about like the, you know, pretty insane miscarriage of justice. Basically, America was sick of white collar criminals getting away with shit. It was in the air. And there was a lot of bad insider trading.

• 1:48:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:22Dax Shepard?

  And no one gave a fuck about the other people. They wanted a sacrificial lamb. They want, everyone wanted someone to pay. And then you add in all the resentment people already have that she is a very successful, very rich, very powerful woman.

• 1:48:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:39Dax Shepard?

  And whether anyone's aware of that or not while they're, I don't even, I don't think anyone was like consciously going, yeah, this is the wrong thing to do. I'm going to do it. I don't think that happened. But I don't think you're aware of how much you're responding to this thing you're threatened by and you don't even know you are.

• 1:48:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, people carry so many feelings that they don't understand about successful women.

• 1:49:01Dax Shepard?

  It's very similar to the Kardashian hatred. It's quite similar because Martha was presenting the perfect life. She's in pursuit of perfection. And so people are simultaneously very attracted to that because we all like beauty. And we like this stuff and it's very aspirational and wish fulfillment-y. And then, and then you're mad you don't have it and she has it. And you're jealous, even though in her case, like she was physically doing it all herself. Like she's making floral arrangements and she's making the meals and she's all this stuff. But it's just, there's a lot of things that are fun to look at in the doc. How complicated are all of our relationship is with high status people and particularly

• 1:49:45Dax Shepard?

  high status women and people who have what we want, you know?

• 1:49:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's complicated.

• 1:49:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:52Speaker 01

  Very complicated. Yeah, well, I'm excited to watch that.

• 1:49:55Dax Shepard?

  Okay, The Substance. Now, my prediction was, I don't know if it was a prediction, I was just like, it's, it's unrelenting and very intense and I'm just curious how you're gonna feel. What do you rate the intensity, the gore?

• 1:50:08Speaker 01

  So, of course, it's so gory, it's so, um, it's very intense. It's so over the top, but I wasn't like, I don't think I was as disturbed as.

• 1:50:20Dax Shepard?

  I was worried.

• 1:50:21Speaker 01

  As you were anticipating.

• 1:50:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:23Speaker 01

  And I said then, and I was like, I'm not sure if this is gonna be true, but I wonder if.

• 1:50:28Dax Shepard?

  Women.

• 1:50:29Speaker 01

  Will watch this differently and will not think it's as intense as men do. I mean, it is, it is, it's crazy.

• 1:50:35Dax Shepard?

  Objectively.

• 1:50:36Speaker 01

  Objectively, it is.

• 1:50:37Dax Shepard?

  An alien would go, wow, that's a really wild film the monkeys made.

• 1:50:40Speaker 01

  Yes, everyone's like kinda screaming, it's like kinda one of those where people are reacting loudly in a really fun way.

• 1:50:47Dax Shepard?

  Was it pretty packed when you went?

• 1:50:48Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:50:49Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:50:49Speaker 01

  There was, there was like.

• 1:50:50Dax Shepard?

  The five people were screaming, did anyone walk out? Cause people walked out when I was.

• 1:50:53Speaker 01

  No, and that's like, to me, the idea of someone walking out is, is funny to me.

• 1:50:59Dax Shepard?

  I mean, I don't wanna do any spoilers, but I just wanna talk about the sewing of the skin.

• 1:51:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:03Dax Shepard?

  You were, that wasn't like, oh my fucking god.

• 1:51:06Speaker 01

  I mean, I was like.

• 1:51:06Dax Shepard?

  Or fingernail stuff, no, that stuff was, I mean, that stuff is.

• 1:51:09Speaker 01

  I mean, I was like, ew, of course, I was like, ew, oh my god, this is so insane.

• 1:51:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:14Speaker 01

  But I, I was not like, oh my god, I gotta walk out or, oh, I gotta close my eyes. And like, by the end of the movie, I was dying laughing. I was laughing out loud at like such a high frequency. I thought it became so funny to me.

• 1:51:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:51:32Speaker 01

  So absurd.

• 1:51:35Speaker 05

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 1:51:49Dax Shepard?

  I have that with violence in movies.

• 1:51:53Dax Shepard?

  You know, it starts making me laugh so hard. Some of the violence in Goodfellas, some of the violence in Tarantino movies.

• 1:52:00Speaker 01

  That's interesting.

• 1:52:01Dax Shepard?

  It's just, yeah. I think it is interesting.

• 1:52:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:03Dax Shepard?

  I think there's something there.

• 1:52:04Speaker 01

  Right. I think because for you, since violence is a rea- was a reality.

• 1:52:10Dax Shepard?

  Big time.

• 1:52:11Speaker 01

  You can see it a little differently, or you can like, you, maybe you know when it's hit an absurd threshold.

• 1:52:17Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:52:19Speaker 01

  And because for me, violence is just scary in general.

• 1:52:22Dax Shepard?

  It's all violence.

• 1:52:23Speaker 01

  It's all scary. It doesn't matter even the smallest.

• 1:52:25Dax Shepard?

  You don't know what's comedic and what's not.

• 1:52:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so I would, I wouldn't laugh at that, but this is like, yes, I'm so clear as to when like body gore has hit another level, or when, when the message of the female body has like escalated to a different point. It's such an incredible message. It's so true. Uh, speaking of successful women, it's cast so perfectly because Demi Moore is so gorgeous.

• 1:52:56Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:52:56Speaker 01

  She's so beautiful.

• 1:52:58Dax Shepard?

  She's a knockout. Yeah.

• 1:52:58Speaker 01

  She has aged incredibly gracefully. She looks incredible.

• 1:53:02Dax Shepard?

  When you were my age, Demi, because she was perfectly the right age above me where she was like this incredibly exotic young 20 year old when I was like 15 or whatever.

• 1:53:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. Jess said that he, he was in love with her.

• 1:53:16Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow. Transcended.

• 1:53:19Speaker 01

  I know. I said, well, what'd you want to do? Eat around it?

• 1:53:24Dax Shepard?

  Do people know that? I think it's worth repeating.

• 1:53:27Speaker 01

  It's worth repeating. If you listen to Monica and Jess Loves Boys.

• 1:53:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:32Speaker 01

  Monica and Jess Love Boys. That was one of our early spinoff shows. It was a long time ago at this point. We did a 10 episode show with Jess where him and I were, were so opposite, but we were on like dating missions, basically. And it was such a fun show. I, Another show I'm really proud of.

• 1:53:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, let's add now because people for so many years have wanted to know why you guys didn't do a second season. And I think it's important to just say that you realize if you are actually gonna find love was this, this was not the right way. You had to prioritize your real.

• 1:54:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, it felt a little cheap. We, you know, we put out the, the questionnaires and people responded. And once we were going through them, I was like, yeah, this is, we're just making a show and it wouldn't really be about the real thing.

• 1:54:14Dax Shepard?

  Instead of your real life informing the show, the show is gonna start informing your real life. And that's, that's a dicey road.

• 1:54:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. So anyways, that's why we didn't.

• 1:54:23Dax Shepard?

  But he had girlfriends in high school.

• 1:54:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, he had girlfriends. Jess is gay, if people don't know that. He had girlfriends in high school and we'd be like, well, did you like?

• 1:54:32Dax Shepard?

  What'd you guys do physically?

• 1:54:33Speaker 01

  Or would you? And he was like, I would eat around it.

• 1:54:37Dax Shepard?

  Which by the way, feels very sexy, just having someone eat my thighs and get close. They were probably like teetering on the verge. It might've been better than actual what high school boys were doing directly.

• 1:54:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's worth perhaps going back and listening to that show just to hear him describe that. Speaking of that, actually, we have a feed. It's called Armchair Limited. It is where all our old series live.

• 1:55:02Dax Shepard?

  Yo, great. People are curious about that.

• 1:55:05Speaker 01

  If you ever want to go back and listen to any of these fun things we've done.

• 1:55:07Dax Shepard?

  Race to 270, a lot of people have been asking me like, where's Race 270?

• 1:55:10Speaker 01

  Race to 270, Race to 35. So anyway, all our old shows are on there. It's really fun if you want to go.

• 1:55:15Dax Shepard?

  Armchair Limited.

• 1:55:16Speaker 06

  Armchair Umbrella Limited Series.

• 1:55:19Dax Shepard?

  Armchair Umbrella Limited Series.

• 1:55:20Speaker 01

  But I think if you type in Armchair Limited, you can, it'll pop up. Anyway, um, I asked, did you eat, did you want to eat around it? And he said, no, I just wanted to write her letters.

• 1:55:30Dax Shepard?

  Ah, okay. More of like, uh, what do they call that? Mother?

• 1:55:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. Someone called me that the other day and I was so flattered. So cool.

• 1:55:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:55:40Speaker 01

  Anyhow.

• 1:55:40Dax Shepard?

  Anyhow.

• 1:55:41Speaker 01

  So substance. Yeah, like. She's so gorgeous and perfect. And so when she's starting to do, go down this road where she's

• 1:55:52Dax Shepard?

  Taking a substance.

• 1:55:53Speaker 01

  Younger, yes. You're like, why? You don't need to do this. Why are you doing this?

• 1:55:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:57Speaker 01

  And, and then you see the young person and as a woman, and this is so sad, as a woman, you're like, oh, like, I guess I kind of get it. I like, I understand why she wants that.

• 1:56:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:10Speaker 01

  It's so fucked up. It is so fucked up what we do to aging women in this society. We really cast women aside.

• 1:56:20Dax Shepard?

  It's asymmetric, for sure.

• 1:56:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. The way they shoot the men in the movie is hilarious.

• 1:56:26Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes. All fish eye, disgusting. He's always eating shit. Oh, God.

• 1:56:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's falling out of his mouth.

• 1:56:33Dax Shepard?

  Sea substance.

• 1:56:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, sea substance. I want to, we have facts, but also, and this is for Cynthia. She was incredible.

• 1:56:40Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah. What a blast that was.

• 1:56:42Speaker 01

  I have to tell you, any day now, I think we might get unplugged. The sim is hitting new levels.

• 1:56:51Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:56:53Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:56:53Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:56:54Speaker 01

  Yesterday, I was in Culver City. I'm never in Culver City.

• 1:56:59Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:56:59Speaker 01

  It was so random. It was kind of last minute.

• 1:57:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:02Speaker 01

  Decided to go.

• 1:57:03Dax Shepard?

  Decided to go to Culver City last minute?

• 1:57:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:57:06Dax Shepard?

  What on earth was in Culver City?

• 1:57:08Speaker 01

  Jess is helping open a new restaurant.

• 1:57:10Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:57:10Speaker 01

  And I told him I would come.

• 1:57:13Dax Shepard?

  Be a patron?

• 1:57:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. And, but I was like, really on the fence. I didn't know if I was, whatever. Then last minute, I was like, I guess I'll go. I wanted to beat traffic, so I went early. I went at like this random time.

• 1:57:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:24Speaker 01

  And I park, I'm just sitting in the car, I'm on the phone, and I look over and Molly is staring at me through my car window.

• 1:57:33Dax Shepard?

  Richardson or McNary? Okay, Molly Richardson.

• 1:57:36Speaker 01

  Who also does not live in Culver City, is never in Culver City, happened to be meeting a friend for lunch. I know, exactly. Happened to be meeting a friend for lunch there and like drove by, saw my car, saw my little, she said she saw my little head.

• 1:57:53Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:57:53Speaker 01

  And then parked and, what? That is so weird.

• 1:57:58Dax Shepard?

  It is very weird.

• 1:57:59Speaker 01

  Facts.

• 1:58:00Dax Shepard?

  We have, listen, which it's so fine. We have complementary things about that trigger us into the sim.

• 1:58:06Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:58:07Dax Shepard?

  So you have things, you have coincidences.

• 1:58:09Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:58:10Dax Shepard?

  Right? That's kind of your, what you don't ever miss. Mine is more what's happening in my lifetime. This feels very suspicious. So my example, my recent sim moment was talking to my hormone doctor. Telling him how, I mean, this, we're just chatting. It's not like I'm asking him to deal with this. I'm just somehow, we're talking about getting older maybe. And I said, the thing that's fucking killing me is my eyesight. I find it so frustrating and I know I'm being a baby, but I cannot stand that, be able to fucking read anything that's not 25 feet away from me.

• 1:58:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:47Dax Shepard?

  And he said, oh, I just got the bionic lenses put on.

• 1:58:50Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:58:51Dax Shepard?

  And I go, what, what bionic lenses? And he said, I think Johnson and Johnson makes now an artificial lens that lasts forever. That gives you perfect sight.

• 1:59:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:02Dax Shepard?

  And I went, what are the odds I'm gonna be, I'm not gonna have to deal with fucked up declining vision? Well, that's where we're at. Again, that feels awfully suspicious, Monica. For 300,000 years, humans have had to deal with their eyes going to shit and I might not have to?

• 1:59:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:23Dax Shepard?

  Come on, man. My final piece of the puzzle where I'll go, okay, this is sim. I'm in a sim is if they shut off aging. If they end aging and you don't have to die.

• 1:59:34Speaker 01

  I know, I know.

• 1:59:35Dax Shepard?

  Until the earth blows up in five billion years?

• 1:59:37Speaker 01

  Maybe before that.

• 1:59:37Dax Shepard?

  Or sooner, but.

• 1:59:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. But also you, you would still die by getting hit by a car and stuff.

• 1:59:42Dax Shepard?

  You could still die by getting, yeah. I think we've, what we've really beat out all the things that this would cause is you, I think you'd get abnormally fearful of accidental death.

• 1:59:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, you'd, everyone would become agoraphobe.

• 1:59:52Dax Shepard?

  Walk around with a big bubble wrap all over you.

• 1:59:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:55Dax Shepard?

  So that to me, that's more what I'm tracking.

• 1:59:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:58Dax Shepard?

  And I've always said this, mostly people that believe in the sim have an abnormally lucky life and I own that.

• 2:00:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's if you're looking at the sim in the way you're looking at the sim. If you look at it in the coincidental way. That can also, that doesn't have to be privileged. That's just like, what the fuck is going on that I just said this? Or that I'm running into Molly? That my, my neighbor of my house owns the apartment next door? Like, that's not-

• 2:00:25Dax Shepard?

  That's, I, I acknowledge that stuff is very simmy.

• 2:00:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:28Dax Shepard?

  But, but, but I do think that if you're, if you've had, you know, two people knock you up that lied and said they had vasectomies and you're in a trailer on welfare, and you, if, if, if you do think it's a sim, I feel so bad for that person. Because why would that person deserve that sim?

• 2:00:46Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 2:00:46Dax Shepard?

  Why would they, they plugged into something to have that experience? So I don't think that person would ever think they're in a sim. Because why would they, who would be in a sim that's fucking insufferable?

• 2:00:57Speaker 01

  Well, that's a, okay, it gets so heady because if we're, if my, if I'm in my sim-

• 2:01:02Dax Shepard?

  The people that are suffering are fake.

• 2:01:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:04Dax Shepard?

  But that's what we hope.

• 2:01:06Speaker 01

  I know. I know.

• 2:01:09Dax Shepard?

  I don't want anyone to suffer. I don't want any, anyone that's in a sim should be having a fucking-

• 2:01:13Speaker 01

  But in their sim, they are.

• 2:01:15Dax Shepard?

  This is very confusing. Well, TBD.

• 2:01:18Speaker 01

  Whatever. Also to say, I think we might get unplugged soon because it's getting way, it's, that's so crazy.

• 2:01:23Dax Shepard?

  Same, bionic eyes. I mean, they just happen.

• 2:01:26Speaker 01

  Um, okay, Cynthia.

• 2:01:27Dax Shepard?

  Boy, did I like her. That self-assuredness was, is so attractive to me.

• 2:01:33Speaker 01

  Very. Okay, Michaela Cole. We were talking about if she was younger or older. She is the same age. She's 37 as well.

• 2:01:41Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:01:41Speaker 01

  All of us were born in 87, all three of us.

• 2:01:43Dax Shepard?

  Special year, as we know.

• 2:01:45Speaker 01

  Special year.

• 2:01:46Dax Shepard?

  Seventh grade for me, birth for you.

• 2:01:47Speaker 01

  A postpartum doula. You wanted to know what that was?

• 2:01:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:51Speaker 01

  A trained professional who offers support to new parents during the postpartum period, which is the first six weeks after giving birth. Postpartum doulas can help with a variety of tasks, including physical care, helping with breastfeeding, infant feeding and infant soothing, emotional support, information, housework, incorporating older children. Oh, helping to incorporate the older child.

• 2:02:15Dax Shepard?

  Integrating, yeah.

• 2:02:16Speaker 01

  Overnight shifts. She mentioned one of her heroes, Cicely Tyson.

• 2:02:23Dax Shepard?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:02:23Speaker 01

  And yes, it was, she was nominated for best actress in 1973 for Sounder. Cicely Tyson was.

• 2:02:29Dax Shepard?

  Wasn't even here yet.

• 2:02:30Speaker 01

  No, you weren't.

• 2:02:31Dax Shepard?

  Still a few years away.

• 2:02:32Speaker 01

  Couple of years.

• 2:02:33Dax Shepard?

  Did you say 72 or 73?

• 2:02:34Speaker 01

  Three.

• 2:02:35Dax Shepard?

  Oh, two. Yeah, okay.

• 2:02:37Speaker 01

  Your brother was here?

• 2:02:39Dax Shepard?

  Sixty nine.

• 2:02:39Speaker 01

  Ding ding ding. Erica Badu.

• 2:02:41Dax Shepard?

  Ah.

• 2:02:42Speaker 01

  I just wanted to, because you talk, you asked if she was late. And I just want to be clear, that's a thing with her. It's a thing that like, she is late a lot.

• 2:02:51Dax Shepard?

  It's cool, although I like it. The queen's late. Like, you wait for the queen.

• 2:02:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree. I just, for people who don't know that, it seemed random that you would ask that.

• 2:02:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:00Speaker 01

  But it's a thing, like, people ask, like, what, oh, she's gonna be a couple hours late, like, yeah. You said that your cousin told you that mathematically every song has already been created. That's not true.

• 2:03:11Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 2:03:11Speaker 01

  The number of possible sound combinations is essentially infinite. For example, Spotify, the world's largest music platform, has over a hundred million songs registered and a hundred thousand new songs are added every day.

• 2:03:24Dax Shepard?

  Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Every day?

• 2:03:26Speaker 01

  That's what it says.

• 2:03:26Dax Shepard?

  A hundred thousand songs are added every day.

• 2:03:29Speaker 01

  That's what it says.

• 2:03:30Dax Shepard?

  Holy smokes.

• 2:03:31Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, so, no, no.

• 2:03:35Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 2:03:35Speaker 01

  There's a infinite number of combinations, essentially.

• 2:03:39Dax Shepard?

  All right.

• 2:03:41Speaker 01

  So you can tell your cousin.

• 2:03:43Dax Shepard?

  I'm not gonna tell him. It sounds like a fun thing for him to hold on to.

• 2:03:46Speaker 01

  Okay, sure.

• 2:03:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:47Speaker 01

  Oh, we talk about how in England, they have things, we have things here that they don't have because we allow chemicals that they don't.

• 2:03:54Dax Shepard?

  Oh, sure, yeah. We play it fast and loose.

• 2:03:56Speaker 01

  We do. But in 2023, about a year ago, California became the first state to ban four food additives linked to disease.

• 2:04:05Dax Shepard?

  What are they?

• 2:04:06Speaker 01

  The California Food Safety Act prohibits the manufacturing, distribution, and sale of food and beverages that contain brominated vegetable oil.

• 2:04:13Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I love brominated vegetable oil. Delicious. I gotta move.

• 2:04:17Speaker 01

  Potassium bromate.

• 2:04:19Dax Shepard?

  Oh, no. Okay.

• 2:04:21Speaker 01

  Propyl paraben.

• 2:04:22Dax Shepard?

  Well, what about propofol?

• 2:04:24Speaker 01

  And red dye three. Red dye three is the big, the biggie.

• 2:04:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:28Speaker 01

  Can be found in candy, fruit juices, and cookies and more. Cookie boy.

• 2:04:33Dax Shepard?

  Cookie boy.

• 2:04:34Speaker 01

  Anyway, so that's good.

• 2:04:36Dax Shepard?

  How are you doing on your cookie boy-ness? When's the last time you had a cookie?

• 2:04:39Speaker 01

  I had a cookie.

• 2:04:43Speaker 01

  At least two weeks ago, cuz I had one at Sycamore Kitchen. Love Sycamore Kitchen. They have a Rice Krispie Treat Cookie. It's so insane.

• 2:04:52Dax Shepard?

  I just had an impulse I'm gonna share with you. You know how I wanna go back in my time machine and woo your grandma so bad?

• 2:04:57Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:04:58Dax Shepard?

  I'd kill to do that.

• 2:04:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04:59Dax Shepard?

  I also wanna see you as a baby cuz now when I just asked you about cookies, of course, you looked one years old when you started thinking about your cookies. And so I wanna go back and see you as a baby eating a cookie.

• 2:05:09Speaker 01

  Oh, like my first cookie.

• 2:05:11Dax Shepard?

  How hot was your grandma when you were a baby? Can I hit two birds with one stone?

• 2:05:15Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, she was beautiful.

• 2:05:17Dax Shepard?

  She was.

• 2:05:17Speaker 01

  Gorgeous.

• 2:05:18Dax Shepard?

  How old was she when you were eating cookies as a one-year-old?

• 2:05:23Speaker 01

  She would've been, okay, let's see. So my mom is 26 years my senior.

• 2:05:28Dax Shepard?

  Mm-hmm. How old was?

• 2:05:30Speaker 01

  She was probably 20.

• 2:05:31Dax Shepard?

  But isn't that your dad's mom?

• 2:05:33Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:05:34Dax Shepard?

  Oh, that's your mom's mom?

• 2:05:36Speaker 01

  You didn't know that?

• 2:05:37Dax Shepard?

  I don't know, man.

• 2:05:38Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 2:05:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I think of your, that grandma feels very Indian and I know that your mom's parents lived in Savannah.

• 2:05:45Speaker 01

  From, they came from India.

• 2:05:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:05:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:50Dax Shepard?

  I don't know cuz your dad, of course, feels so much more like he was an adult when he left India.

• 2:05:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was.

• 2:05:55Dax Shepard?

  So when I see a picture like that, I just, I'm in India.

• 2:05:59Speaker 01

  You are in India. She, they are Indian.

• 2:06:02Dax Shepard?

  You got that one right.

• 2:06:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:03Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:06:04Speaker 01

  Okay, so she was probably in her late 40s when I was born. So she was probably around your age that I was eating cookies.

• 2:06:12Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow. Okay, that, I think this is gonna work.

• 2:06:15Speaker 01

  No, I don't know.

• 2:06:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:16Speaker 01

  No, my grandpa.

• 2:06:18Dax Shepard?

  He won't know. All right, let me flip it. If you wanted to go back in time and give Papa Bob some ass, I love my grandmioles to death.

• 2:06:28Speaker 01

  I wouldn't do that to her.

• 2:06:30Dax Shepard?

  You haven't met her.

• 2:06:31Speaker 01

  But you love her.

• 2:06:32Dax Shepard?

  I love her so much.

• 2:06:34Speaker 01

  So why would I do that?

• 2:06:35Dax Shepard?

  Smartest person I ever knew. Because this is, this is a one-off time capsule for him. This is like, he doesn't even know if it was a dream the next day cuz you came into town and you were nowhere to be found. She went back to the future.

• 2:06:46Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:06:47Dax Shepard?

  Ding ding ding. Not a sponsor, great movie. It's a one-off. There's no threat to the marriage cuz you return to the future. He can't fall in love with you and ruin everything. It's just a one-off. You give Papa Bob a little tush.

• 2:07:03Dax Shepard?

  I would want that for him. I would want it for him. And my, my grandma didn't need to know.

• 2:07:08Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 2:07:09Dax Shepard?

  And I would want Brad Pitt to go back and give Ulyss the right of her life.

• 2:07:12Speaker 01

  Oh, sure.

• 2:07:13Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:14Speaker 01

  That one feels less.

• 2:07:15Dax Shepard?

  Why do we want that for her and not him?

• 2:07:17Speaker 01

  I don't know what to say.

• 2:07:18Dax Shepard?

  What is, we don't have a word for misogynist for men. What is it? We need that word.

• 2:07:22Speaker 01

  There's no such thing.

• 2:07:23Dax Shepard?

  There's no such.

• 2:07:24Speaker 01

  That's why.

• 2:07:26Dax Shepard?

  It feels very mean to men. It feels mean to men. That she gets Brad Pitt, but Papa Bob can't have some.

• 2:07:33Speaker 01

  That's not mean.

• 2:07:33Dax Shepard?

  Some tush.

• 2:07:34Speaker 01

  She.

• 2:07:35Dax Shepard?

  Isn't tush the grossest thing to say?

• 2:07:37Speaker 01

  You keep saying it and I think it's disgusting.

• 2:07:39Dax Shepard?

  It's a seventies rock song. He's like, I'm just looking for some tush. And Aaron, I sing, it is so grody.

• 2:07:45Speaker 01

  Okay, we're gonna get stereotypical here.

• 2:07:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, of course.

• 2:07:48Speaker 01

  Women, I think, for the most part.

• 2:07:52Dax Shepard?

  Mm hmm. Caveat, caveat, caveat, asterix.

• 2:07:55Speaker 01

  For the most part, their sex drive, they don't want to have as much sex as men do. As they age, as they get older, as things happen, like, I mean, for, it's actually for real, your sex drive does.

• 2:08:05Dax Shepard?

  Well, so we have testosterone. That's like the, that's the sex fuel. Any, anyone will tell you that.

• 2:08:10Speaker 01

  Well, we have testosterone, but not as much.

• 2:08:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:08:13Speaker 01

  But yes, so, but with menopause and perimenopause, everything drops off. I know, because I'm in perimenopause. And, um, so, so I think a lot of women are having sex with their husbands past the point of them wanting. We know this. It's like, the husbands are like, can we have sex once a week? And the wife are like, sure, I guess.

• 2:08:36Dax Shepard?

  Predominant pattern.

• 2:08:37Speaker 01

  Exactly. Not always.

• 2:08:38Dax Shepard?

  But I do want to add, and this I think comes from, there's a ton of great work on this, from social scientists, like Ira's mom who studied.

• 2:08:46Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:08:47Dax Shepard?

  Women cheat the same amount, but they are driven by novelty. This is like agreed upon. Women are driven by novelty and men are driven by sprain, unfortunately. So, you know, put that in your argument. This is kind of known.

• 2:09:03Speaker 01

  It says men are more likely to cheat than women.

• 2:09:05Dax Shepard?

  Okay, but like 51 to 49?

• 2:09:07Speaker 01

  It's according to this is 20.

• 2:09:10Dax Shepard?

  With somebody.

• 2:09:11Speaker 01

  This is 2022. Yeah, but they might be cheating on someone who's not in a partnership. Yeah, 20% of men and 13% of women admitted to cheating on their spouse.

• 2:09:20Dax Shepard?

  Okay, yeah, and then I'm just gotta, you know, I gotta do my thing, which is like admitting culturally. It's so much worse for a woman to admit it. It's so expected of men.

• 2:09:30Speaker 01

  Even more. Exactly. That's, this is all tying back into what I'm about to say, which is why it's not the same that if, if Grandma Yolas gets to have sex with Brad Pitt, it's not the same.

• 2:09:41Dax Shepard?

  You feel like it's right, writing the scale?

• 2:09:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:09:44Dax Shepard?

  I got you.

• 2:09:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:09:45Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so I imagine that that, this is, don't hate me.

• 2:09:49Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:09:50Dax Shepard?

  If it's admitted 20% and 13%, I think the real numbers are probably like 35% for men and probably like 29% for women. That's just what I think. From the amount of adults I've known that have been married and the amount of affairs I know about and who they were with, that to me feels way more likely.

• 2:10:09Speaker 01

  I only, I only, I'm really trying to think, because I don't want to speak out of school. But in my experience, I don't know very many, but I personally only know.

• 2:10:26Dax Shepard?

  Really?

• 2:10:26Speaker 01

  Who have cheated on their wives.

• 2:10:28Dax Shepard?

  Cheated on their boyfriends. Most of the girls I know cheated on their boyfriend.

• 2:10:32Speaker 01

  Cheated on her boyfriend.

• 2:10:35Dax Shepard?

  One?

• 2:10:36Speaker 01

  Well, let me think.

• 2:10:38Dax Shepard?

  Let me go through every woman I've ever known.

• 2:10:41Speaker 01

  Okay, well, I guess for me, I guess I'm thinking more marital.

• 2:10:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, okay.

• 2:10:46Speaker 01

  Once people are married, I, in my experience, only know men who have cheated on their wives.

• 2:10:53Dax Shepard?

  I bet it's gone up too since women joined the workforce, because forever they were at home and they would interact with other women. Who the hell are they even gonna meet? Whereas like men were meeting women out in their workplace all the time.

• 2:11:06Speaker 01

  Well, they weren't meeting women out in the workplace.

• 2:11:08Dax Shepard?

  Sure, they had secretaries and all these roles that were conventionally feminine, you know, females.

• 2:11:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, like my Papa Bob worked at the Wonder Bed Breakery. Sure, everyone in the bakery was men carrying bags of flour, but then up front, there was all these women doing all kinds of stuff.

• 2:11:21Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:11:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Anywho, okay, so.

• 2:11:25Speaker 01

  Okay, Mexican music is.

• 2:11:27Dax Shepard?

  Hold on, no.

• 2:11:28Speaker 01

  What?

• 2:11:29Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:11:30Speaker 01

  What?

• 2:11:30Dax Shepard?

  So I accept your full logic, then why doesn't that apply to your sweet grandma? Why isn't she like my grandma Ulysses?

• 2:11:36Speaker 01

  Wait, what do you mean?

• 2:11:37Dax Shepard?

  If you okay Brad Pitt having a night with Ulysses,

• 2:11:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:42Dax Shepard?

  Useless eggshells, named after Ulysses S. Grant. Why wouldn't your grandma be entitled to a night with me?

• 2:11:48Speaker 01

  Because I, I don't want that for my grandfather.

• 2:11:51Dax Shepard?

  Oh, right.

• 2:11:53Dax Shepard?

  But it's okay for my grandfather, which would make sense.

• 2:11:55Speaker 01

  It makes sense for your grandfather because you said you want it.

• 2:11:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. I want them.

• 2:11:59Speaker 01

  I don't want it.

• 2:12:00Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:12:01Speaker 01

  For them.

• 2:12:01Dax Shepard?

  All right, I'm moving on.

• 2:12:02Speaker 01

  Okay. Tahano music is influenced significantly by polka.

• 2:12:08Speaker 01

  You're right.

• 2:12:10Speaker 01

  Um, that's it.

• 2:12:12Dax Shepard?

  That was everything.

• 2:12:13Speaker 01

  Well, let me just do one more double check. Yep.

• 2:12:16Dax Shepard?

  All done. Final note, not a spoiler. Loved Wicked.

• 2:12:20Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:12:20Dax Shepard?

  You gotta go see Wicked.

• 2:12:21Speaker 01

  Got to. You will. Everyone already will. Everyone's already seen it probably by now, but it is so good.

• 2:12:27Dax Shepard?

  Popular. Um, all right, I love you.

• 2:12:30Speaker 01

  Love you.