Part Two: The First Navy Pilot To Testify Before Congress On The Daily UAP Near Misses, Carrier Tracking, And Why This Is Becoming The Next Challenger | Ryan Graves

Former U. S. Navy F/A-18F pilot Ryan Graves reveals what REALLY happened behind the Pentagon’s UFO disclosures, and whether the newly released UAP files are hiding something even bigger. As one of the most credible voices in the UFO/UAP conversation, Graves breaks down shocking encounters military pilots experienced firsthand, including near mid-air collisions with unexplained objects described as “a cube inside a sphere,” mysterious black triangles, and even a bizarre “15-foot disco ball” spotted in restricted airspace. On this episode of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown, he explains why elite military radar systems suddenly started detecting anomalies pilots couldn’t even see with their own eyes, and why many aviators feared they might crash into these unidentified objects during missions. Ryan also dives into the infamous Tic Tac UFO and Gimbal UFO incidents involving David Fravor, how military leadership allegedly kept the phenomenon quiet for years, and the terrifying realization among pilots that these encounters were happening far more often than anyone knew. The biggest unanswered questions: - Where are these objects coming from? - How are they operating? - Why do they appear to defy physics? - And why does the government still seem unable (or unwilling) to explain them? Graves explains how highly trained military pilots are uniquely qualified witnesses due to their professionalism, emotional control, and advanced observational training, making their testimonies impossible to casually dismiss. He also reveals why so many commercial and military pilots are still afraid to report UAP sightings despite the fact that commercial pilots reportedly witness unexplained phenomena up to 5 times per day. Ryan shares disturbing patterns involving UAP activity near nuclear sites, reports of craft moving seamlessly from air to water, and accounts of objects seemingly reacting intelligently to pilot maneuvers. He opens up about the personal and professional consequences of speaking publicly about UAPs, what finally pushed him to come forward, and why he founded Americans for Safe Aerospace (ASA) to create a secure environment for pilots and military personnel to report encounters safely. Ryan also explains how investigators separate credible data from misinformation, rumors, and internet hoaxes while building serious scientific and national security frameworks around the UAP issue. If even a fraction of these encounters are real, the implications are massive... Visit Americans for Safe Aerospace where you can report UAP and learn more about their work: https://www.safeaerospace.org/ https://www.safeaerospace.org/%C2%A0 Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BialikBreakdown.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.bialikbreakdown.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube.com/mayimbialik⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/mayimbialik%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Mayim Bialik?

  Hi, I'm Mayim Bialik.

• 0:06Jonathan Cohen?

  And I'm Jonathan Cohen.

• 0:07Mayim Bialik?

  And welcome to part two of our conversation with Ryan Graves. He's a former U.S. Navy fighter pilot and the first active-duty pilot to testify in front of the government regarding UAP sightings. In part two of our conversation, we're going to talk about his personal anecdotes and those of his colleagues, which led them to go to their superiors and find out more about these UAPs. He's also going to talk about piecing together truth from rumors and which rabbit holes we should be going down. In addition, he's going to be talking about nuclear sites, why are UAPs congregating around them, and what does this mean about the threats to all of us? All of that and more in part two of our conversation with Ryan Graves.

• 0:49Speaker 02

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• 1:22Jonathan Cohen?

  Can we talk about the kinematics for a minute? Because there's been a lot of debate online, people saying, "Well, this doesn't move like that." And evaluating the videos, I'm not up on each side of the equation, but I've heard you describe, especially the earlier scenarios that you saw, objects that you saw, that they would be up in the sky for hours and hours, seemingly, that you would fly a mission, they would be there, you would come down, go back up, they would still be there. What do we know about some of the mechanics of these?

• 2:00Speaker 03

  And I want to be, I always try to be very careful with my words here. There were certain characteristics in kinematics that I observed and my squadron mates observed during our time in 2012 to 2015. After I decided to speak publicly about this, I started an organization that receives many reports from other pilots and whatnot. So my scope of understanding of behaviors have changed, but I'm not necessarily, you know, I wasn't there when that necessarily happened, right? And so at the time, we were really observing those three main characteristics I was telling you, stationary in high winds, over speed of sound by one point, you know,

• 2:40Speaker 03

  1.1, 1.2, or kind of in the middle band, 250, 350 knots. We would see them transition between those states, often changing direction somewhat rapidly. But those were relatively rare to see these sharp movements, at least for me personally. Other guys talked about it, I didn't personally see that regularly. They weren't approaching us. They didn't seem to be like avoiding us or attracted to us. They just kind of seemed to do their own thing, not necessarily working together, but kind of independently working as a rough collective in a, you know, some portion,

• 3:22Speaker 03

  the northeast corner of the area. I've learned through the reports, specifically the Navy reports that continue to happen to this day, is still happening today, off the coast of Virginia Beach, the Gulf of America, you know, off the West Coast. These things seem to be a little more aggressive now. One, people are seeing the same thing. They're seeing these cubic spheres, you're seeing metallic spheres, elongated spheres. They are operating at, you know, you know, reporting higher speeds now, point eight, point nine Mach while maneuvering. These things are coming up behind jets and passing them at

• 4:05Speaker 03

  close proximity and stopping rapidly, instantaneously, waiting for the jet to approach. And when the jet approaches, it'll shoot off tangentially to the aircraft's flight path with near instantaneous speeds.

• 4:21Jonathan Cohen?

  That we don't have technology to do, correct?

• 4:25Speaker 03

  Not that I'm aware of, no. You know, and I can say that with the confidence of someone that has worked in advanced research and development. When I got out of the Navy and winning and executing proposals for DARPA Strategic Capabilities Office, Air Force Research Labs for the past six or seven years, as well as Office of Naval Research as an autonomy subject matter expert. So I'm pretty well read into where we're going with autonomy capabilities and whatnot. And things are advancing rapidly. Things that I don't think were achievable in certain, certain corner cases, maybe in 2012,

• 5:06Speaker 03

  2013, 2014, I think are likely achievable today with energy density increases, an increased performance of, of small form factor drones as far as duration. Things of that nation are that, that those types of capabilities, there's also, I mean, the US has been working on this for a bit, so has China, but multi, multi domain drones, right? So launching a object from a submarine goes onto the surface, floats and then takes off from there, right? That's not this true transmedium capability. We talk, we talk about UAP where they seem to be able to traverse water, air and space seamlessly.

• 5:50Speaker 03

  But you know, that's kind of where things are at now, but definitely not in 2012. Can we have longer on state, station time now? Yes, but it still doesn't really add up for, for what these things are. But you know, let's, let's, you know, we could talk about that too, right? So all right, there's these kinematics. Why is it not us? Why is it not China, right? And so the kinematics alone, obviously, you know, I think some of the, especially 2012, 2015 time period, you know, the very high speed hygiene maneuvers obviously are very difficult and damaging.

• 6:26Speaker 03

  But beyond all that, right? If the, we're using blue technology or own technology and we're testing it or somehow employing it against our own guys, right? Off the eastern seaboard. What, what that really translates to a military speak is that we are demonstrating a probably a special access program, a very highly classified program. Over international waters where we have known adversaries that are watching it daily. And we are having near misses daily with, you know, not maybe near misses daily, but the risk of mid airs with now documented mid airs over the course of years, right? So we have places to test that type of technology.

• 7:09Speaker 03

  And the legal ramifications of them exposing that type of technology to someone like myself who's not ready, even if I have a clearance is no different for them handing me a binder marked top secret, even though I'm not right into that program. It's illegal. I would have to get ready and I have to sign non-disclosure agreements for that particular program is the whole process. None of that has occurred and this is still happening, right? So logically, it's hard for me to assume that we're doing this to ourselves here and then exposing it at the congressional stage, right? So that doesn't really make sense to me. I'm sure in the whole corpus of reports, there are segments where, yeah, sure, people have seen blue technology, but it certainly doesn't account for any significant portion of the reports that are interesting.

• 7:54Speaker 03

  What about China or Russia, of course, right? So really the same principles kind of apply here where, you know, if they have developed aerial capabilities, perhaps they're using novel propulsion technologies or energy storage or signature management technologies, all of which would be required for what we've described here back in 2012, never mind today. What is the risk reward for them to be flying them and exposing them off our coasts or perhaps in more modern times off the coast of New Jersey? What is the strategic person, purpose for them exposing that? What intelligence are they gathering from that that they can't gather from the multitude of satellites that they have looking at us, right?

• 8:39Speaker 03

  So for China to expose for a long period of time and make vulnerable a exotic capability that they have, they wouldn't want us to just shoot it down over Ohio, over Florida and reverse engineer an exotic technology. Now, have they done that? Have they floated? Balloons over us, yes, but they haven't, they haven't, they haven't sent over a novel, novel technology that exceeds your own capabilities, basically sending over basic radar imaging technology.

• 9:11Mayim Bialik?

  The same argument could be made for people who are certain that this is non-human intelligence, because if something has such advanced intelligence that, let's say, we can't even imagine, right? You could make the same argument. It's kind of like, you know, if aliens, I'm just like throwing this out there, if aliens exist that can fly, you know, saucers into our, you know, atmosphere, why do they keep crashing, right? Like, you haven't perfected your technology enough to not, like, whoops, crash into New Mexico? So I think the same argument could be made, right? If something has the capability to develop this kind of sophisticated technology and be able to avoid and all the things that you're describing, yeah, don't we find it a little

• 9:54Mayim Bialik?

  bit hard to believe that, I mean, the only hypothesis I have is like drunk teenage aliens who are like... My Alex Breakdown is supported by Quince. You know those pieces in your closet that you reach for over and over again? That sweater that somehow works with everything? The jeans you know will always fit just right? The bag you carry everywhere? Those are the pieces that earn a permanent place in your wardrobe, and that's what Quince does so well. Quince makes elevated everyday essentials using premium materials like Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, premium stretch denim. The designs are timeless, thoughtfully crafted, and made to be worn again and again. And as the weather gets colder, Quince has everything you need to round out your wardrobe, from warm, responsibly sourced down jackets, and cozy cashmere scarves, and gloves, to

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• 11:33Speaker 03

  No, I get what you're saying. I would push back a little bit and say that the game theory involved between China and Russia and the United States trying to leverage positions is congruent and adjacent enough to us to really understand without us trying to draw assumptions about what a super intelligent species somewhere else in the universe might have or care about, right? So like, I get like, the general logic is the same, but I think I can still stand a bit stronger on the first opinion without having to believe the second. And, you know, I won't pretend I have an answer for why there are supposedly crashes or recoveries. I've heard

• 12:16Speaker 03

  all sorts of theories from, you know, us experimenting with high powered radars during the Roswell era, which caused it to inadvertently shoots down during nuclear tests to specifically employing technology to draw them in and then capture them. I don't have an answer. And it could sadly be as far as indifference because they know that what they're leaving behind is so far beyond what we can leverage that they just don't care. And China would certainly.

• 12:47Mayim Bialik?

  Right. My feeling is whoever, whatever is behind whatever this is, we need more information in order to actually make any definitive conclusions, right?

• 12:57Speaker 03

  Of course. So, so yeah, you know, these, you know, we're getting back to where we were, you know, just kind of describing some of these kinematics, some of these behaviors. So, you know, I don't think it's our own technology. I, you know, I have pretty high degree of confidence that China is not responsible for all of these behaviors. I do think that we have learned new things about their intelligence programs through the, through these efforts, I'll say, but they certainly don't count for, for everything. And then, you know, that leaves us in this other, other bucket, right? And, you know, my organization.

• 13:33Speaker 03

  Really, that's kind of where we stop. We make the assumption that credible people are being truthful when they describe or have sensor data capabilities beyond the state of the art, and we want to understand what that means. And like I said, I have reasons why I don't think it's blue in its entirety, or why I don't think it's China, the red threat.

• 13:52Speaker 03

  But that doesn't mean I know necessarily where we go from there. And of course, I'm very first in all the different threads that people have imagined for what this could be. Maybe it will be the obvious choice at the end of the day, but you know, like, like you said, we need more information, we need more data. And ultimately, that's why I created Americans for Safe Aerospace, so that people had a safe place where they didn't feel like they were delving down into conspiracy, or that they were going to lose their jobs, or they'd be ridiculed for bringing this up. Some people have a genuine curiosity with a somewhat ambiguous event that occurred with them.

• 14:35Speaker 03

  Other people have had very clear, vivid, corroborated events that have changed their worldview in ways that I think is hard for someone to imagine unless you've gone through it. And often have held on to that information, either perhaps sharing it only with a spouse, or sometimes not even that for decades. And you know, that's, I think, fascinating to me to think that people all around us have these individual own views and worlds of reality based on their own experiences that others would completely ignore or throw away.

• 15:07Jonathan Cohen?

  One of the things that you mentioned when we talk about the increase of activity, when pilots are coming up and/or these objects are coming up to pilots and passing them or being very close to them, are they becoming visible to the naked eye in a way that they weren't potentially in the early spotings 2012?

• 15:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, people are seeing them more with their eyes. People, even pilots in the Navy have captured them with their cellphone cameras. Some of those have leaked out. Much of it, I think, has been retained now that official reporting process been put into place. And we work a lot with commercial airlines and pilots as well. And of course, they don't have the fancy sensors that a fighter jet has, but there's a lot of them. They still got eyeballs and they sometimes look out the window up there. And they do see a lot of stuff.

• 15:57Mayim Bialik?

  Wait, wait, like, just like on my normal domestic flight from Phoenix to LA, this could happen?

• 16:04Speaker 03

  This is happening every day. There are about, you know, the latest number I've heard, on average, about four to five passes with a UAP that thousand foot of a commercial traffic, five times per day in the United States.

• 16:22Jonathan Cohen?

  Whoa.

• 16:22Mayim Bialik?

  I thought this was something that happens to fancy pilots out in the ocean or near nuclear sites. This could be happening to us anytime.

• 16:32Speaker 03

  It is happening. You know, if you keep your eyes on X, you know, even just Kasey Musgraves, the singer, country singer, if you're familiar with her, she was flying her jet and they had a sighting, her pilots. She posted videos on it. We've talked to hundreds of commercial pilots who are reporting this regularly. Sometimes it's lights that appear to be in orbit that are performing like aircraft circling each other very high up.

• 17:01Mayim Bialik?

  Should the pilot be telling us that while we're flying? Or that's something they just keep to themselves?

• 17:06Speaker 03

  I mean, if I had an airline, I'd point it out, you know? I think that'd be a cool feature. We could even get some cameras on the top and have them lock in and you could watch it, you know? That would be Ryan, well, there's already a Ryan Airlines. Elon Musk didn't accept my offer to be CEO of Ryan Airlines.

• 17:23Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, well, Spirit just folded, so there's room.

• 17:26Jonathan Cohen?

  The notion of these crafts going from air to water. You talked about the ability for maybe there to be a drone on a submarine that surfaces and then takes off from water. But are we seeing the transition from?

• 17:40Jonathan Cohen?

  Air into water and back out again.

• 17:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, we are. There have been some released videos from the Navy. I'm aware of more. From the air, we're not able to really discern that often because we're too high to see it actually transition visually. But and the radar can't, you know, discern on the water like that and tell what's happening. So not from pilot reports, but a lot from surface vessels in the Navy. Yeah.

• 18:07Speaker 03

  But, you know, back, back to the commercial airlines, many, many reports of these objects joining on aircraft in flight.

• 18:17Speaker 03

  Hanging out on a wing.

• 18:18Mayim Bialik?

  What?

• 18:18Speaker 03

  Going into the aircraft.

• 18:19Mayim Bialik?

  Wait, wait.

• 18:20Speaker 03

  Popping up on the other side. And we'll hang out there for an hour and a half and just do that for an hour and a half.

• 18:26Mayim Bialik?

  This is what I keep asking you, and I'm not asking from like a theoretical, I was saying, what are we actually talking about?

• 18:34Speaker 03

  Welcome to the, welcome to the conversation. Yeah.

• 18:36Mayim Bialik?

  No, but what I mean is like, it's like, I saw Casey's video and what it looks like, again, amateur explanation. It looks like two lights that are tracking in unison, which is unusual across the distance we're talking about. But is it lights?

• 18:53Speaker 03

  I'll get there. So, you know, I want to describe how these are popping up for pilots. And I'm going to tell you how some of these all actually connect, right? And so they are seeing some of these high altitude ones. They are seeing these ones that are around their platforms. Would they come in to land these things like when they start to descent? Sometimes they'll go up, disappear out of sight. A high, sometimes they'll descend down and hang out over the water and illuminate the water. Not just one object too often, it's like two or three objects that kind of play around with each other, kind of change position. I know it's strange.

• 19:26Speaker 03

  And, you know, then there's the spheres and tic tac shaped objects. Those are typically lower, lower altitude guys reporting, seeing these things at 1500, 2000 feet on approaches in the airport. Numerous, numerous near misses with black triangles is very common. I visited a pilot in South Africa and when his co pilot, you know, flying a 737, fully loaded, passing, I think 29,000 feet.

• 19:58Speaker 03

  Spotted a black triangle. Bigger than his aircraft.

• 20:02Mayim Bialik?

  What?

• 20:02Speaker 03

  Nose went directly over the aircraft about 200 feet over their aircraft. He thought it was going to hit their vertical, vertical stabilizer. And they both described it the same. Black triangles are usually described the same with lights kind of in each corner. This kind of had a golden aura, if you will, almost as if something was re-entering from space, like a plasma around the bottom of it.

• 20:29Mayim Bialik?

  Ryan.

• 20:30Speaker 03

  I know, crazy stuff.

• 20:32Mayim Bialik?

  Well, it's like, I'm never getting on a plane again. Thanks a lot. I want to see that at 29,000 feet, like what?

• 20:39Speaker 03

  I know. The pilots were so disturbed, they actually self-administered drug tests to themselves afterwards, just going down the decision tree of what this could be, right? And then, you know, so when we talk about aviation safety, it's not always about, is it going to hit another aircraft? What is the state that we're allowing our pilots, forcing our pilots, they'll say, to operate in by leaving him in this state of uncertainty and lack of training?

• 21:06Mayim Bialik?

  That feels like a concern. This feels like a safety concern.

• 21:11Speaker 03

  It's normalizing deviancy is what it is, right? And that's the aviation safety term for, we have identified an issue, it's been observed, but it's being ignored because there hasn't been a catastrophic result out of it. It's the same, same issue that caused the Challenger mishap, shuttle mishap, right? The tiles were known to be defective, they're known to be an error, people were raising the issue, but leadership made a decision that because it hadn't been a catastrophic problem in the past, they therefore will never be, or at least they won't be now. And of course, it's easy to make those decisions before the Black Swan event, right? And that's, you know, why this work is so hard, because it's often not as easy to get

• 21:54Speaker 03

  people to understand the risk before those type of catastrophic events.

• 21:58Jonathan Cohen?

  It is kind of crazy that there have been all of these near misses, like so many, and yet there hasn't been an actual crash, which either indicates that whatever's out there is trying to make itself more visible, is becoming more comfortable with us. In a way, like, maybe they were, it was scared. I'm just anthropomorphizing for a second. And now it's becoming more comfortable. Or that we're on the verge of heading towards a catastrophic event and it's only a matter of time.

• 22:30Speaker 03

  Those are both fair interpretations. I don't have the answer. But even if it's the former case, there's still the risk that come from having a psychologically misshapen pilot, you know, operating for the remainder of his flight after having an encounter like this, or the unintended pilot response into the stick due to having an object whizz by his throttle, whether that be a fighter aircraft that pulls into his wingman or commercial airliner that injures someone in the back.

• 23:00Jonathan Cohen?

  Yeah, you don't know how it's going to behave. It's random. You can then overreact and that could be the catastrophe. A passing comment, like, these craft are just hanging out with commercial aircraft for an hour and a half. Like, don't they have anything better to do than watch a Southwest flight? Like, that doesn't make any sense.

• 23:19Speaker 03

  I know. I get it. And, um, you know, I'll add one other thing. I promised the connecting thread, you know? We have reports to, this particular case was in Afghanistan. We're very similar to what pilots are seeing, these lights way up high, kind of maneuvering in what would be impossible if they were in orbit. It was five vehicles, uh, five soldiers, five Marines to a vehicle. They're transiting between forward operating bases and, um, they were watching these lights for like 20, 30 minutes. A couple of them kind of got still and after a while they assessed that these things were descending towards them. Uh, and these things continued all the way down until they were at about 2,000 feet. Uh, one of them hung out there.

• 24:03Speaker 03

  The other one continued down till it was about 20 feet over their heads at their about 11 o'clock position. They pulled over their vehicles, they got out. They watched this thing circle them, fly over them, hang out stationary for about 20 minutes, 30 minutes, uh, before it joined the other object and continued back up. They described, you know, since you're like, well, what the heck are they? They described this as about a 15 foot, uh, what appeared to be disco ball. Uh, 15 foot diameter disco ball, multifaceted, uh, reflecting a lot of light, but also seemed to be some of the panels generating their own light.

• 24:41Mayim Bialik?

  Was it blasting the Bee Gees?

• 24:43Speaker 03

  There was no sound, as there often isn't in these things. Absolutely no sound.

• 24:48Mayim Bialik?

  One thing that's making a lot of these conversations harder for me, right? Meaning, I've heard whispers of this, I don't really follow it, I'll be honest, you know? It's like, it's just not my thing, because I don't know how to wrap my head around it, right? But one of the challenges that I think we have is, as your technology has gotten better, so has the technology of fabricating things that don't exist. And Jonathan and I were talking about this just last night. I was curious, like, has there ever been a dog with this kind of patterning? And I was gonna Google it, and I thought, "The internet's gonna give me exactly what I ask for, because everything is made up now." How can we try and learn more about what you're talking about,

• 25:31Mayim Bialik?

  without falling prey to doctored photos, AI images, that make things look realer than real? And in many cases, you know, people with motives to try and have us believe one narrative versus another. How do you piece apart what's true and what's not anymore?

• 25:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a great question, and absolutely. And I don't think, you know, the issue of fake information, fake data images, is ever going to go away at this point. You know, there's of course tradecraft when it comes to the proper collection of data, which, you know, I'm not gonna bore you with, but chain of custody, et cetera, et cetera. I get it, that doesn't apply on X and anywhere else. But, you know, when it comes to the social environment, this is a very messy information space, intentionally, I think. You know, I do believe that there has been dis and misinformation that has been promulgated out into this space, both by purposeful actors and by, you know, useful idiots. Maybe I'm one of those, I don't know.

• 26:35Speaker 03

  But, but it is very messy. And at the end of the day, that's why I've tuned, you know, I mostly tune out all of that, right? And within our organization, you know, we have long conversations with our witnesses. We have an understanding of what data's important. We have... The ability to go out and validate and cooperate that information. And we're also building a very sophisticated system to be able to scrape across the internet and across private databases, any corroborative or

• 27:09Speaker 03

  supplementary information that we can for any one report, whether it be satellite data, air traffic data, test data that range at the military base down the street, et cetera, et cetera. But then the day we're not telling you what to believe about a report, we're trying to give you as much information so that you can make an informed decision about whether it is prosaic or whether it is something of interest. And I, you know, I'm building that because what you raise as an issue was the same issue I had when I was exploring this space. And I've determined what those tools need to be. And that's exactly what we're building at safewar space.org. And we're going to be sharing that with everyone. It's not just going to be the cases that we get in verbally.

• 27:51Speaker 03

  We are building hardware that people can deploy up and down the cost curve, right? So you can get something small and put together at your house. You can get something more sophisticated, but elsewhere. And so over time, we're going to have the ability, not just to have stories, but have, you know, evidence packages that we can cooperate in real time with different data sets that are generated out there. So, you know, the answer is there is no answer right now, but people like myself and others are trying to build our way towards making it more accessible and understandable and cleaner for the average person that wants to try to understand it.

• 28:27Mayim Bialik?

  And we've spoken to Lou Elizondo. We've spoken to a ton of really, you know, fascinating people, kind of both from the government side, from the theoretical physics side, from the more out there side. This is just kind of a question I'm curious about. Do you all know each other in the sense that are there places that you will go and places you won't go in these conversations? You know, do you tend to shy away from this must be alien intelligence? And you try and keep it more, you know, kind of in the middle? Like, how do we approach this? Because also, you know, there's so many opinions that can be Helpful to understanding this, but if your thing is not, for example, Bashar,

• 29:08Mayim Bialik?

  you know, Daryl Anka, who channels, you know, a hybrid alien being from, you know, 3,000 years in the future, right? How do you decide sort of where to align so that we have a more robust case to make against we deserve more information, we need more information, and this is real?

• 29:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, so there's, yeah, there's, you know, once you start dipping your toe over the line, this conversation, you know, quickly goes down different paths such as, you know, does consciousness get involved, remote viewing, what, you know, what about all these other ancillary things that say they originate from this topic?

• 29:49Speaker 03

  Some of them are quite interesting. Some of them are too, I will say uncomfortable, unsafe perhaps for me to like really ingest, right? Whether they be true or not.

• 30:03Speaker 03

  But it, you know, how I approach all of this generally isn't that when I hear new information, I immediately formulate an opinion on its validity or not. What I do instead is just try to understand as much context around what's being shared with me and just file it away. And over time, that either connects to things over time or it does not. And if it connects to a lot of things, then it's something that I want to understand why it does. And hopefully drive towards an answer with that. And so, you know, I would say you go into this, you know, it's when people, I think, start to explore this, you have to go into it with a mindset that you're going to hear things

• 30:43Speaker 03

  that you're uncomfortable with, that your immediate reaction is that you don't believe it. And that's, you know, that's part of the journey of learning things that you were told weren't true. And I'm not saying all those rabbit holes, of course, are. But this isn't the type of stuff that you could learn in a textbook. This is stuff that you have to explore and evaluate for yourself and form your own opinions. And like I said, we're hopefully just building the tools that allow people to just dip their toe over, finally have some credible evidence that they can quantify and measure and see the chain of logic behind it instead of just another picture on X.

• 31:22Jonathan Cohen?

  Being uncomfortable and saying absolutely no as a first response is every conversation I have with mine. So we are in the sweet spot. There's one other area that may make us uncomfortable, but I would love to hear your thoughts or any patterns that you've seen. We've heard people anecdotally saying that these objects are more present over nuclear sites or have interfered with launch capabilities or missile technology. Have you seen any of those patterns and what do we know about that?

• 31:57Speaker 03

  Those patterns do seem to be real. I don't think those patterns tell the full story necessarily. I don't know whether the interest in nuclear is a byproduct of them having a greater interest in all technological development. That might be a concern, right? And I'm going on a ledge here a bit, right? And anthropomorphizing, but that does seem to be a consistent trend. I am aware of efforts with nuclear materials in order to lure these objects in that have been successful. You know, secondhand information, but it does seem to be both a historical trend as well as a modern trend as well.

• 32:36Mayim Bialik?

  I think part two of that question is what might that mean?

• 32:40Speaker 03

  The first thing people might jump to is that they don't want us to damage ourselves or our environment in a way that is not in their interest, perhaps, right? That's one interpretation, perhaps. Another interpretation could be that the weapons themselves pose a risk to them or their technology, or perhaps somehow their environment, or something of that nature. Or perhaps it's simply a, that is simply a cutting edge area where there's value in them monitoring us, much like we might hypothesize that they monitor supercolliders

• 33:23Speaker 03

  and artificial intelligence systems and material science, perhaps, but maybe it's done in a different way. And again, I'm just pure speculation here, but that's how I think about what those incentives might be. Our motives.

• 33:38Mayim Bialik?

  Um, before we let you go, I wonder if you can sort of, you know, give us a little bit of a window into sort of your personal experience. You're a husband, you're a father, you are a person living in this world who is famous, right, for your bravery, your courage, um, you know, really a set of challenges that very few Americans have the opportunity to experience. When you think about the service you've given to this country, you know, what does it feel like in terms of your personal legacy?

• 34:13Speaker 03

  Gosh, wow, well, thank you for saying all that. To be honest, I don't think about it, uh, because right now I'm, I'm every day in the trenches working this issue and I haven't, I'll say, taken the time to reflect on that. Uh, I will say just generally my experience with this, you know, especially early on, um, you know, there's a lot of anxiety. It was, you know, I think I understood the corner I was putting myself into, but I also, I think, had a pretty clear idea of what the light at the end of the tunnel could look like, right? You know, as far as being able to like actually resolve this. And when I say this, I don't mean UAP or UFO. I mean, resolve the issue that my colleagues were having on the Eastern Seaboard. It's still happening today. I don't want them to suffer one of those catastrophic risks.

• 34:57Speaker 03

  And as far as I see it, legacy be damned because we haven't resolved that yet and there's, there's more work to do.

• 35:05Speaker 03

  If I, if I could take a moment though, I'd love to plug that we're going to be talking a lot, uh, with these witnesses. My organization, uh, is, we're starting up a podcast, the Safe Aerospace Podcast. And we have a number of pilots and air traffic controllers and fighter pilots who are ready to come forward and share what they've learned and we're going to be documenting it and sharing it with the world. And these are the same cases, these are the same cases we've taken to the FBI, to Congress, and that has motivated them, their work. Now's the right time to share it.

• 35:37Mayim Bialik?

  Please tell us where people can go to find out more about you.

• 35:40Speaker 03

  You can go to safe aerospace.org. You can learn about our work and you can follow us. You can follow me on X at uncertain vector and you can look for our first episode on the safe aerospace podcast coming out here at the end of May at safe aerospace. We have some really interesting reports about those supposed Chinese balloons that flew the United States because some of the air traffic controllers watch these things accelerate to pretty rapid speeds. It makes them pretty aggressive maneuvers and we're gonna be sharing that for the first time.

• 36:12Mayim Bialik?

  Amazing. Well, Ryan Graves, you are a true patriot. We really, really appreciate your time and just appreciate so much you sharing with us and being here.

• 36:22Speaker 03

  It's my pleasure. Thank you both.

• 36:28Mayim Bialik?

  If you had told me like who Ryan Graves is in history over the last 10 years, I'd be like, okay, I'm sort of following it. But this is not a rabbit hole. I feel safe or comfortable to use his words to go down. Like in general, I avoid this stuff. Like, I know it's out there, but I don't really know what to do. And it feels like a lot of crazy. So I've stayed away from it. After speaking to him, I have a completely different perspective, which is why we shouldn't make assumptions before we have more information. I have a completely different perspective on life, the universe and everything.

• 36:58Jonathan Cohen?

  I mean, what do you make of reports that commercial pilots just are like, oh yeah, I'm seeing these all the time. They're hanging out on wings of commercial flights. They're near misses at this, at this level.

• 37:11Mayim Bialik?

  I thought the hard part about getting on a plane was being yelled at by the TSA kid. And be yelling back at them. Not anymore. Now, I mean, I'm like, kind of being like, I'm sort of being facetious about this, but what? Like literally, I fly a lot. I just fly more than a lot of people.

• 37:31Jonathan Cohen?

  Less so lately because of the aliens.

• 37:35Mayim Bialik?

  Not because of the aliens. I don't, here's the thing. I'm gonna be super clear about this. I don't want to be flying on an airplane if there's some object that they don't know what it is and it's hanging around and it's behaving in ways that my physics can't calculate. I don't want to be around that.

• 37:51Jonathan Cohen?

  And I want to be clear. He never said the word aliens, not once. Never said alien.

• 37:56Mayim Bialik?

  Whatever's going on, I don't like it. There's your cold open.

• 38:00Jonathan Cohen?

  You know what it reminded me of when he was speaking? And I've never thought about this before. When he talks, especially the disco light, it reminded me.

• 38:10Jonathan Cohen?

  Of puppies.

• 38:12Mayim Bialik?

  Excuse me?

• 38:13Jonathan Cohen?

  Puppies, dogs. They come in all different shapes and sizes. You, you almost don't think that they could be of the same species. There's like a dog that's three pounds. There's a dog that's 160 pounds.

• 38:24Mayim Bialik?

  What are you talking about?

• 38:25Jonathan Cohen?

  The level of like, oh, we're just gonna like hang out on the side of a wing. Oh, I'm just gonna like dart across the field and, and like see this new person like.

• 38:34Mayim Bialik?

  Why is that remind you of puppies?

• 38:36Jonathan Cohen?

  It sounds like all these geometric shapes.

• 38:39Mayim Bialik?

  Oh.

• 38:41Jonathan Cohen?

  Are like a collection of puppies that are like hanging out and like sniffing around humanity and like checking things out. That's what the image I got was.

• 38:52Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, well, some images that you get are for sharing with the audience and some are for telling me about later. No, but I, I see what you're saying. You're saying that there's this like kind of amorphous variety of possibility that could happen that have kind of similar behaviors that are sort of lingering and hovering. Yeah, I did not think of puppies. I thought of, um, I thought of Daryl Anka telling us that a craft hovered over the 405. And I instantly was like, is this like, is this what people are seeing? Is this what people are reporting? Also, why can you see it with the naked eye? Why is it getting so close to the ground? I mean, I thought about Gary Nolan. I thought about all these people who have had these experiences.

• 39:36Mayim Bialik?

  And like, maybe this is the biggest cover up that, that like, maybe for real. This is the biggest cover up that we've seen. I don't know if it's aliens, but it sure is something.

• 39:46Jonathan Cohen?

  Daryl brought us a rendered picture of what his vision was. So like, if I could track back to the internet to the very, very first time that he ever described the craft that he experienced in the 90s, that craft looks almost identical to what the crafts are that Ryan is describing. And if Daryl was talking about this in the 90s, then he wasn't.

• 40:14Jonathan Cohen?

  Getting influenced by the information on the internet from the reports that Ryan is sharing.

• 40:20Mayim Bialik?

  Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. This is like, observation bias. So, I want you to like, pull back for a second. The, the image that, that Daryl Anka brought us, or a lot of the images that people say, their, their brain, as we know from our conversation with, uh, Dr. Roz, uh, from even our conversation, uh, with Scott Barry Kaufman, our brain will also generalize memories to include things that it wants to be included in. It may not be nefarious, it could just be an unconscious kind of process. So I just want to be careful, you know, that we keep in mind that unless he made that image,

• 41:01Mayim Bialik?

  and we have it stamped and copyrighted that that image was generated before then, there's always that possibility. I'm not casting shade on Daryl. I'm just saying, like, in general, and this is a huge conversation that, you know, we didn't get to tackle with Ryan in the time that we had with him, but this is a huge conversation surrounding UAPs, right? Because you have all of these people, and if you talk to somebody like Dr. Jeffrey Kripal, he would say historically, for thousands and thousands of years, we've had reports that are eerily similar in either their mechanism, their memory, or the, you know, apparent purpose of these kinds of experiences or visits.

• 41:45Mayim Bialik?

  So, I think that's, that's also important to realize. If we're gonna believe that, let's say it is some non, you know, human advanced intelligence, there's no reason it should appear in this century, or this millennia. There's no reason. It's been going on for longer than now.

• 42:05Jonathan Cohen?

  There's no reason it shouldn't.

• 42:07Mayim Bialik?

  If some alien beings have that level of technology...

• 42:12Mayim Bialik?

  They didn't just figure out how to enter our airspace this century.

• 42:17Jonathan Cohen?

  No, but we weren't up there in the airspace before.

• 42:21Mayim Bialik?

  True.

• 42:22Jonathan Cohen?

  I mean, we weren't sending pilots up with the advanced radar systems that have just happened in the last 20 years.

• 42:28Mayim Bialik?

  Why would, why wouldn't he, or any of us, assume that maybe something wants our nuclear weapons? Because the idea could be, oh, it's shutting things down because it doesn't want us to destroy ourselves. I'm thinking they want to steal our technology and make, no, that doesn't happen.

• 42:45Jonathan Cohen?

  Their technology is so much more advanced. Number one, there's no sound coming off any of these devices.

• 42:50Mayim Bialik?

  That seems like the most upsetting thing. How could an object of that size not, first of all, stay stationary in, you know, in a windstorm? But how does it have no sound? What? What does that even mean? Like, I don't, it's gotta have, I don't know.

• 43:07Jonathan Cohen?

  And I've heard him describe in other interviews where the equipment measures heat, and there's no heat coming off of them either.

• 43:17Mayim Bialik?

  Right, which if it has an engine or some propulsion technology, it should be generating something. I don't know. But things create energy other ways. I don't know.

• 43:25Jonathan Cohen?

  All this to say, I don't think they need our nukes.

• 43:30Mayim Bialik?

  They also don't need our Bee Gees, apparently.

• 43:32Jonathan Cohen?

  Tell us what happens with Kermit.

• 43:38Jonathan Cohen?

  If you're only watching, she's flailing her arms.

• 43:43Mayim Bialik?

  Literally. Can you imagine us? If me and Jonathan were flying those, those jets, we'd be like, what the fuck was that? We'd be like staring into it.

• 43:51Jonathan Cohen?

  No, no. Just imagine, we're driving. I'd be driving. You'd be the passenger, because you're always on your phone, catching up on texts. I'd be like, hey, you should look out the window. And you'd be like... Flailing your arms, freaking out. I'd be like, just be cool. Just be cool. I'm trying to navigate here.

• 44:08Mayim Bialik?

  But you know what? This actually brings up, this brings up an interesting kind of flavor of this. You know, Ryan is like, cool as a cucumber. I don't know if he came out of the womb like that and they're like, this person will be a fighter pilot, or if they train you to, I don't know, what did he say? He's like, we're always quite regulated. I'm like, yeah, no kidding.

• 44:24Jonathan Cohen?

  They're flying a $60 million plane.

• 44:27Mayim Bialik?

  It's unbelievable to me. The whole thing is unbelievable. I'm like, all I'm seeing is Tom Cruise when I look at him. I'm seeing the right stuff. I'm seeing like every like astronaut fighter pilot movie that ever was like a part of my 80s childhood. Here's my question. This is how he is responding to anomalous phenomenon in his airspace while he's training and being deployed all over the world, right? Imagine you are a layperson. You are a civilian. Maybe you're an at-home mom. Maybe you're a mechanic. Maybe you're a farmer. You're just a normal person and this happens to you.

• 45:06Mayim Bialik?

  It's no wonder that when people experience this, they, it's like you, you kind of can't believe what's happening to your life. It must cause a tremendous amount of anxiety, anticipatory fear, you know, like what is happening? And no one's going to believe me and everyone's going to say I'm crazy. If this is a thing that is happening to pilots, right? And that's happening on these levels, if it is happening in civilian environments, of course it freaks people out. It must cause a nerve, it would give me a nervous breakdown, especially if I thought no one would believe me or they'd call me crazy. That's incredibly significant.

• 45:45Jonathan Cohen?

  You played pickleball last weekend with a commercial pilot who is local. I'm gonna go ask him what he's seen. What's happening? I actually know two pilots in the neighborhood that I'm gonna go talk to.

• 45:58Mayim Bialik?

  I only want to know pilots now because I want to find out. I, I mean, I...

• 46:04Jonathan Cohen?

  Also, if they're happening on commercial flights, are passengers seeing it?

• 46:07Mayim Bialik?

  Are flight attendants seeing it? Flight attendants are always chit-chatting when I go on planes. They're always talking to each other. I'm gonna tell them, "Look out the window. Tell me if there's a cube in a sphere on the wing." What?

• 46:19Jonathan Cohen?

  Now, instead of putting the shade down, you're gonna have the shade up. You're gonna have both hands pressed against the window.

• 46:25Mayim Bialik?

  You know what I thought of? Twilight Zone, William Shatner. Anyone? It's that crazy, what's the, the episode's called like "The Something on the Wing." Mystery at 20,000 Feet. Like, Luke knows that. There was a Twilight Zone episode when I was a child, and it terrified me. And William Shatner, at this time was William Shatner, he keeps seeing this thing on the wing. And everybody thinks he's crazy, and he thinks he's going nuts. And the flight attendant's like, "Sir, you need to sit down." And he keeps seeing it. Like, spoiler alert, I think he like pushes the window out, the plane crashes, and then they find residue from this creature on the wing. It freaked me out. Sorry, it's a deep cut here. Nightmare at 20,000 Feet? Nightmare at 20,000 Feet, also known as My Life.

• 47:09Jonathan Cohen?

  The number of near misses is really something very unusual.

• 47:14Mayim Bialik?

  And statistically speaking, there should have been a crash. So whatever these, whatever these UAPs are, they either pass through, I'm gonna say it, they either pass through some dimension that makes them leave the XYZ vector with time as the linear thing that we think it is, or they, they have some intentionality and sophistication. There's, I mean, I'm just giving you my rough stats. There's no reason that there shouldn't have been a collision. If we're seeing this five times a day on like a, you know, just a commercial flight, there's no reason it shouldn't have happened. So there, there's, I'm going on the record saying, there is some explicable reason why there has not been a collision.

• 47:57Mayim Bialik?

  There has to be, because statistically speaking, it has to have happened.

• 48:00Jonathan Cohen?

  And if it was... Advanced human technology.

• 48:04Mayim Bialik?

  Sure.

• 48:05Jonathan Cohen?

  There would have been an error by now.

• 48:07Mayim Bialik?

  Uh, well, yes and no. There, there should have been with the limited understanding, let's say, that you and I and all of us, you know, have with understanding sort of error calculation. But yeah, if, if, you know, bite my tongue, God forbid, you know, average civilian planes crash just from being on their own on a runway or trying to land. Yeah. Imagine traveling at the speeds we're talking about with the distance and proximity that we're talking about. It should have happened.

• 48:38Jonathan Cohen?

  Going right up next to moving craft in that way. 200 feet by the nose of a plane. It is amazing also that pilots haven't reacted and been, you know, scared by this.

• 48:51Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah. Well, I mean, look, as he said, they are taught to have a level of, you know, regulation that is different, you know, than that of a lot of us. But, um, yeah, there's, I mean, flying also in formations that he's talking about, like, that's really, that's like a very, very precise and calculated thing that has to be in conjunction with, you know, the, the partners and systems that you're in to have another system from outside of your formation come in and be in between. It doesn't make sense.

• 49:23Jonathan Cohen?

  Mike, talk us through your personal evolution from being someone who was like, thinking about this is absolutely like off the deep end, only the fringes of society even considers this an idea to, we spoke to Lou Elizondo. You started to explore and now I feel like today was really a day where something shifted in you that, you know, changed almost fundamentally how open you may be to some of this material because Ryan presents things in a way that is exceptionally uncharged, right?

• 50:07Mayim Bialik?

  I, I think what I can say is that, um, Because of the enormous amount of information, questionable information, unverifiable information, for me, I kind of had to close the door on a lot of this because I don't know how to sift through all of it. I'm also not particularly tech savvy. So even finding links and going places and looking things up, I try and watch something on X and it tells me I don't have a password. You know what I mean? Accessing this information has not been easy for me. So I did, I shut the door on a lot of it. But I think what was special about Ryan and the way that he presented the information, he presented it in a clinical fashion in terms of like,

• 50:51Mayim Bialik?

  these are the facts. It's okay to not know. It's okay to not be able to explain it. And I think that's what scares me about a lot of these conversations is that if you even bring up Ryan Graves, a lot of skeptical materialists will say like, that's BS, there's no such thing as aliens. And that's actually not what the conversation's about. And I think the refocusing of the conversation to be able to say, this is what has happened in terms of our observation capability and our analysis capability. There's still more information that we need. And the goal would be to gather more, to remove the stigma, and also to have the government get out of the way if they are suppressing information because at this point, we can't ignore that something's happening.

• 51:36Mayim Bialik?

  That's sort of where I feel Ryan brought me to.

• 51:39Jonathan Cohen?

  Looking back at our conversation with Bashar and his message about disclosure being in 2026, 2027. And, you know, when we spoke to him, we were very open minded. We really heard his message. And also because we, you have a skeptical side that is analytical. You kind of were saying, yes, but we've also heard similar spiritual messages about the coming awakening and the earth changing. And so like, how do we map that concretely on to? Objective behavior or information.

• 52:21Jonathan Cohen?

  And now, just today, we get that article that says, "Wait a second, here's this trove of information and more is coming." Do you connect those two?

• 52:30Mayim Bialik?

  Here's the thing, and I think this is similar to, you know, your previous question about sort of what has changed. I'm not terribly motivated, just me personally, by premonitions. It's like, not really my jam.

• 52:43Jonathan Cohen?

  What about my premonitions? They're pretty good.

• 52:46Mayim Bialik?

  No, but like, I'm interested in patterns of history. I'm interested in history, you know, what is it? "May not always repeat itself, but it sure does rhyme," right? I'm interested in that. But this notion of like, preparation, or that kind of vibe, makes me feel like I smell patchouli in the air. You know, like, it's a different, it's like, a different category of where I tend to resonate. So I think, like, that notion does not have to be compelling to me in order for me to also understand the similarities in these conversations. But I think it's really just a style thing. You know, like, I have a different style than, you know, than the people who are in that kind of realm. I don't have this like, "Oh, my gosh, it's coming," you know? I just don't.

• 53:30Mayim Bialik?

  And to me, that doesn't confirm anything, because it actually doesn't, you know? But it does tell a good story. And I think it is, it's captivating and it's exciting. But I don't think I'm ever gonna come from it, from like, "Oh, well, it was channeled, and so therefore..." You know, I kind of set that aside.

• 53:48Jonathan Cohen?

  Bashar also talked about this idea of the nightly news report, of what was seen, what evidence we have. So just play the theoretical "what-if" game.

• 53:58Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, I want, yeah, I want Ryan's podcast. I want Ryan to have a 24/7 streaming channel that anytime I want to, I can, like, log on and figure out what pilot saw what on what given day. That's what I want. I want the information all the time.

• 54:14Jonathan Cohen?

  Just nightly news, because as soon as we get into 24 streaming, the incentive structure makes it divulge into nonsense. But I think a nightly news report, and what is Mayim's reaction when a nightly news report says, "We have seen the first..."

• 54:32Jonathan Cohen?

  Unequivocal, non-human intelligent object, whether that's a disco ball-

• 54:37Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 54:37Jonathan Cohen?

  That-

• 54:37Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 54:38Jonathan Cohen?

  Doesn't apply by any of the ways that we understand things, or a gray, like Bashar says.

• 54:44Mayim Bialik?

  I think the Kermit reaction. That's really, you could just insert like Kermit here.

• 54:49Jonathan Cohen?

  All right, we need to, I don't think we can get the copyrights to insert Kermit, or the video will get taken down, but we'll do it on Substack.

• 54:56Mayim Bialik?

  Join us over on Substack, MindBee Alex Breakdown, for content you can't hear anywhere else, and from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time.