Max Blumenthal on His Iran Trip, Being Detained by Trump & the Globalist Chokehold on American Media

Max Blumenthal has been reporting critically on Israel for twenty years, in the face of censorship and death threats. Now he’s been detained by the Trump administration. (00:00) Blumenthal's Trip to Iran and Getting Detained (25:05) The Paid Propagandists (1:00:43) Leaked AIPAC Audio (1:05:53) What Is Israel's Big Picture Goal? (1:43:17) What Happened to TPUSA? Max Blumenthal is the founder and editor of The Grayzone, an independent American investigative journalism outlet. He is the author of several books and producer of numerous documentary films on US and international politics. TheGrayzone.com Paid partnerships with: American Financing: NMLS 182334, nmlsconsumeraccess.org. APR for rates in the 5s start at 6.327% for well qualified borrowers. Call 800-685-5696 for details about credit costs and terms. Visit http://www. AmericanFinancing.net/Tucker. Brooklyn Bedding: Get 30% off sitewide with promo code TUCKER at https://brooklynbedding.comRedmond Salt: Use code TUCKER for 15% off your first order at https://redmond.com/tucker Joi + Blokes: Use code TUCKER for 65% off your labs and 20% off all peptides and supplements at https://joiandblokes.com/tucker Battalion Metals: Shop fair-priced gold and silver at https://battalionmetals.com/tucker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:34Tucker Carlson?

  Max Blumenthal, thank you for doing this. So I guess it shouldn't surprise anyone that if you're a journalist and you've been taking a position and reporting on stories that are in direct contradiction to the official story in Washington, that at some point, you know, someone's going to get heavy with you. And so I want you to just describe, if you don't mind, a couple of things that have happened to you recently. So everyone knows what the stakes are. So you got detained at a US airport recently. Can you explain what happened?

• 1:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, and this wasn't the first time the Trump administration had gotten heavy with me over my reporting. I was actually arrested and jailed on first false charges that were dropped quickly during the first Trump term. That's a long story, but we've reported on it at the gray zone. And I was-

• 1:27Tucker Carlson?

  You spent a couple of days in jail.

• 1:28Speaker 02

  I spent a couple of days in DC jail over completely false bogus charges. My house was essentially raided by, like, the police surrounded my house, took me out into a wagon and took me to jail for completely false charges that I had assaulted a woman who was an ally of Juan Guaido at the time. That's like to make the long story short. And, you know, I wish I had had legal representation that encouraged me to sue at that time because it was just completely fake. Right after Trump came in, in January, I was stopped coming back from a vacation abroad with my family and shown a list of names and asked, you know, basically, do you know these people? Which is far beyond the scope of authority

• 2:13Speaker 02

  of Customs and Border Protection. And I said I-

• 2:16Tucker Carlson?

  Did they pull you out of Customs line?

• 2:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, they were waiting for me. Mr. Blumenthal, and they said, we've been watching you on Judge Napolito. I watched your last appearance on Judge Napolito, referring to Judge Andrew Napolitano, but kind of like, you know, a tap on the shoulder, like Big Brother's watching. And I remember those names, I actually didn't recognize them until afterwards. One of them was Susan Benjamin, who, which happens to be the birth name of Code Pink co-founder Medea Benjamin. And then the other names were like Arab names or Muslim names. And I think one of them might have been Mahmoud Khalil, who is now, was like arrested and was one of the Columbia students who was arrested. And they tried to deport him and put him in an ICE facility for a long time. I didn't know.

• 3:00Speaker 02

  But it signaled to me that, once it started, it started to all make sense once I saw what they were doing. Israel's in charge now, and they want some, they want a crackdown. They want to criminalize activism and even journalism that contravenes their objectives. So, you know, the war breaks out in Iran on February 28th. It doesn't break out. Trump executes Israel's wishes and Netanyahu's greatest fantasy, attacking Iran. We can talk about why that happened later, but I was observing it closely, reporting on it. I, you know, as you were as well. So I wanted to go there. And I had gone the year before. Without any incident coming back,

• 3:44Speaker 02

  I participated in a public media festival.

• 3:47Tucker Carlson?

  In Iran?

• 3:48Speaker 02

  In Iran. I did a documentary on Iranian Jews and what life is like for them in the Islamic Republic. I did reporting, I interviewed negotiators, like top negotiators, as the negotiations were about to collapse. This is like a month before Israel launched its first war on Iran, which ended with Operation Midnight Hammer. So anyway, the major war, Operation Epstein Fury or Epic Fury breaks out. And I'm observing it very closely, so I wanted an opportunity to go. I got that opportunity because Iran's Foreign Ministry was giving out press passes to mainstream reporters, you know, from NBC, from CNN,

• 4:31Speaker 02

  as well as quote unquote influencers who wanted to go and cover the funeral of the man that Trump assassinated on February 28th, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. And it was going to be the largest funeral in history. And indeed, it was. I witnessed it as a reporter. I covered a lot of things there, which I can talk about in detail. But, you know, what, one of the things I was reporting on was evidence of US and Israeli war crimes. For example, I visited a neighborhood in eastern Tehran that had been just completely destroyed Gaza-style. And it, you know, was destroyed without much reporting. I actually hadn't been aware of this neighborhood where it was just block after block of destruction.

• 5:15Speaker 02

  And speaking to people on that street with tears in their eyes, telling me how entire families were liquidated in their sleep, going to the home where a family, what was left of the home, a family of 12 was killed and finding the clothes of small children on the ground. The clothes that resembled the clothes that I dress my children in every day, the same age. It was very upsetting. And I've had an obligation to report on this. There was actually graffiti on the wall by a building, a giant apartment building, civilian apartment building that had been completely destroyed in the middle of the night. It said, "Evidence of US crimes." And that's what I was producing, providing as a reporter on the ground. Visited a synagogue, 50-year-old synagogue

• 6:00Speaker 02

  that Israel had bombed. Nothing was bombed around it, really, that I could see. These kinds of things were-

• 6:07Tucker Carlson?

  Was it an active synagogue?

• 6:08Speaker 02

  It was an active 50-year-old synagogue called the Rafinha synagogue in central Tehran. I was one of the first American reporters to visit it. My colleague Wyatt Reed had also visited it. And, you know, several other sites, Gandhi Hospital-

• 6:22Tucker Carlson?

  Did anyone ever explain in the coalition, US or Israel, why we would bomb a synagogue in Iran?

• 6:28Speaker 02

  Well, Israel always offers the excuse, there was some IRGC site nearby, and it was a mistake. But it wouldn't have been the first synagogue that Israel's bombed in the region in order to compel Jews to move out of their historic home in order to seek sanctuary within the so-called Jewish state. And it raised serious questions about what would have motivated them to do it. And I raised those questions in an explainer that I filmed there. It's the kind of thing that would piss Israel off, especially when it's a Jewish reporter, an American Jewish reporter. So as I was-

• 7:02Tucker Carlson?

  Bombing synagogues was not kind of on the program, I thought.

• 7:06Speaker 02

  No. The synagogue didn't seem to present a national security threat to Israel. What does threaten Israel is to have a community of 10,000 Jews in a Muslim country like the Islamic Republic of Iran, who are recognized as a national minority under the Constitution and who are not experiencing antisemitism there. It kind of stands at odds with what Zionists want us to believe about Muslims and the Muslim world.

• 7:30Tucker Carlson?

  Kind of, yeah.

• 7:31Speaker 02

  So they might, they might want to frighten them to leave as they did with the Jewish community in Iraq when the Zionist underground with Israeli help bombed Jewish community centers in Baghdad as the Israeli historian Avi Shlaim documented in 1952, 1953. So, so anyway, I'm doing this reporting. I'm reporting on the, I reported from the funeral. Trump has previously said, you know, that these large crowds you see at funerals of Islamic Republic leadership who he or Israel assassinate are AI. So they don't want actual American reporters on the ground there, especially me, when my perspective is very well-known. So while I was there,

• 8:15Speaker 02

  I was targeted online by a collection of entities and figures who are completely connected to Israel and no one else. Like, it was, it was an Israeli propaganda operation targeting me. Laura Lumer was obviously leading the way on this.

• 8:36Tucker Carlson?

  This was not an organic uprising of American citizens online?

• 8:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it was funny. When I went in 2025, I was, you know, tweeting from Iran. I was producing journalism the same way, and nothing like this happened. But this time, it was different. And it wasn't organic in the sense that a foreign state was guiding this, and they wanted to- Character assassinate me online. So besides Laura Lumer, who we'll talk about in a second, there was Canary Mission. They were targeting me. They created a dossier about me. They said something like I dedicated my life to the Ayatollah, some really insane statement and that I was there to-

• 9:18Tucker Carlson?

  That you officially endorsed him?

• 9:20Speaker 02

  What they were, yeah, essentially that I endorsed him for like leadership of the world, that I was there to basically pray at his, at his grave. And by the way, if I had done that, if I had converted to Shia Islam and, and prayed and made homage, paid homage to the late Ayatollah, that would not have been against the law in the United States as far as I know. I think I would have been within my rights, but I was just there to report and that's all I did there. In any case, Canary Mission attacks me. This is a group based in Israel, based in a foundation. It's like a front group called Meghamot Shalom. And its writers come out of, many of them come out of the Wexner Foundation, named for the best friend of Jeffrey Epstein. And they are American Israeli dual citizens.

• 10:04Tucker Carlson?

  The guy who bought, oh, you know, bought his house on Fifth Avenue? That same guy?

• 10:07Speaker 02

  That same guy. Yeah. And who I think helped Howard Lutnick buy the house next door. So I'm being targeted by Vice Grad-

• 10:17Tucker Carlson?

  May I ask, is there evidence that he helped Howard Lutnick buy the house next door?

• 10:21Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm pretty sure that, that, that they helped him buy the townhouse next door. If not, you know, we can edit it out or I'll retract it, but I'm pretty sure that's the case.

• 10:34Tucker Carlson?

  Amazing.

• 10:35Speaker 02

  They definitely shared a wall.

• 10:36Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 10:37Speaker 02

  But that's, this is totally peripheral to the story I'm telling. The story I'm telling, the point I'm making is I was targeted by a foreign government for contravening their propaganda objectives as a reporter. Canary Mission has been used by the State Department under Trump to determine which green card holding students they should arrest in the street and deport for like writing an op ed criticizing Israel for their student paper.

• 11:04Tucker Carlson?

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• 11:45Tucker Carlson?

  not just a loan, it's a true financial reset. We recommend American Financing. They're called America's home for home loans for a reason. So get out of credit card debt. I mean, it is just crazy to borrow money. No judgment, but it's just make any sense to borrow money at that rate. If you want out, call 800-685-5696, 800-685-5696, or visit americanfinancing.net/tucker. Wait, an Israeli propaganda outfit funded by Epstein's financier has worked with the State Department to decide who to deport?

• 12:24Speaker 02

  It's been reported that Marco Rubio's State Department was relying in part on Canary Mission to target students. And Canary Mission was founded in 2015 to ruin the lives of US college students who were participating in Palestine activism on campus by doxing them and preventing them from gaining future employment. And this is an Israeli group that's meddling in our society and trying to ruin the lives of Americans who are exercising their First Amendment rights. So now they're targeting me. Another group was Vice Grad 24, which seems to be, you know, shilling for the UAE as well as Israel. And then Laura

• 13:06Speaker 02

  Lumer comes in and demands that Mark Wayne Mullen arrest me, have me hauled off the flight, that my passport be revoked, basically that I be denaturalized as a natural born US citizen for, for what? For what? For simply reporting from Iran? And, you know, then maybe they can find some facts later with which they can use to criminalize me.

• 13:28Tucker Carlson?

  So she said this in public?

• 13:30Speaker 02

  She tweeted this. She said, you know, if Mark Wayne Mullen is worth anything, he will do this. She called for my home to be raided at 5:00 AM. She called, she specifically called for Rubio to yank my passport. She boasted that she had called the FBI, the State Department and DHS on me.

• 13:52Tucker Carlson?

  How does she have this?

• 13:55Speaker 02

  She's boasted of calling law enforcement on over a thousand people in the US. So this is well, this, this is like typical behavior. And so I come back and I'm like, kind of knowing what to expect. What did you say? They're going to get heavy with me? Because Laura Lumer has become their go to propagandist and they use her, they kind of outsource her. But also she's able to frighten people in the administration like Mark Wayne Mullen, who she was attacking a week later, calling him Mark Wayne Muslim. And I, I think she was calling him all sorts of names because he wasn't doing enough deportations. So it's

• 14:37Speaker 02

  like his ass is on the line from someone who just a couple of years ago was chaining themselves to Twitter headquarters. Someone who was, because she, her Twitter account had been pulled. Someone who earlier this year justified a mass shooting at a US mosque. Someone who, I mean, we know, you know, she called some black Democrats, black ghetto bitches. And she's seen as so outlandish, but people in the Trump administration are frightened of her and other people are using her. So-

• 15:09Tucker Carlson?

  Why would they be frightened of her?

• 15:12Speaker 02

  Because there are powerful forces behind her, including some extremely powerful Zionist crime bosses. I mean-

• 15:22Tucker Carlson?

  You're absolutely right. They're afraid of her. I have seen it.

• 15:24Speaker 02

  I mean, who, who's behind her? Who, who, who is behind her trip to Ukraine? I mean, how, how do you get an audience with Zelensky like that? And then you're meeting with Andrei Biletsky, the leading neo-Nazi in Ukraine and whitewashing him. And then you're going to a energy plant for a company called D-Tech, which just seems completely random, whose board member is Jeffrey Piat, the guy who was handing out cookies in the Maidan in 2014 with Victoria Nuland. Who owns D-Tech? It's Rinat Akhmatov, who is one of the richest

• 16:05Speaker 02

  men in Ukraine, who's like a de facto crime boss in Kiev, is involved in all kinds of corrupt activity. You know, who's, who's got her pushing for the removal of sanctions on Venezuela's government, even when Maduro was in power? Probably some pretty powerful businessmen who might own Venezuela's sovereign debt, who want to collect on their debt. Who's pushing her to target anyone who gets in the way of Israel's genocidal agenda in the Middle East? I mean, we could choose between any number of major Israeli or pro-Israel warlords from Miriam Adelson to Bill Ackman. I, I don't know who they are.

• 16:46Tucker Carlson?

  But I think we could all agree, this is not the way like a country does diplomacy, right?

• 16:52Speaker 02

  Well, this is what happened to MAGA. They've driven out everyone who believed in anything Trump campaigned on in 2016, 2020, 2024, like national sovereignty, for example, America first, rather than Israel first, not, not continuing the Ukraine proxy war. Zelensky's now asking for $28 billion from the US. All of these things were what I think motivated you to campaign for Trump. And now you're being targeted as one of their main enemies. Laura Lumer is attacking you right now, along with other figures who have a very murky relationship with the Trump administration, like this Jenica Pounds character,

• 17:36Speaker 02

  data Republican who has just exposed, or exposed herself as a special Pentagon employee. But we thought she was just a pro-MAGA influencer. So what is MAGA anymore?

• 17:45Tucker Carlson?

  What do you mean a Pentagon employee?

• 17:47Speaker 02

  Like a special employee of the Pentagon who's been hired by the Pentagon and has a .SIV email. This was-

• 17:54Tucker Carlson?

  Actually?

• 17:54Speaker 02

  -reported in the Washington Post. Yes.

• 17:57Tucker Carlson?

  So this is someone who's like attacking people politically online all the time?

• 18:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:03Tucker Carlson?

  Who's getting paid in US tax dollars to do that?

• 18:07Speaker 02

  I don't know how much she's being paid, but she exposed herself as such. Let me make this point about just, this is where MAGA is. Like Laura Lumer is the face of MAGA right now.

• 18:18Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 18:19Speaker 02

  And when that's the face of your movement-

• 18:23Speaker 02

  It doesn't stand for anything anymore, except the raw Machiavellian exercise of power.

• 18:30Tucker Carlson?

  Yes, and looting.

• 18:32Speaker 02

  And looting, corruption, and genocidal bloodlust, which is something she represents.

• 18:41Speaker 02

  She's, you know, after this mass shooting that killed three people at a mosque in San Diego this May, she called for ICE to raid the homes of the victims.

• 18:52Tucker Carlson?

  What?

• 18:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, and in addition to saying the whole thing was a false flag to elicit sympathy for Muslims and that all Muslims in America should be deported. So this is the person who, you know, people are answering to in the administration and everyone's seeking to use her as well.

• 19:10Tucker Carlson?

  Then what's the difference between saying that and like, all Jews should be deported? Like, what's, once you decide that an entire ethnic group or religion is evil because of how they were born, how is that different from any other variety of that?

• 19:26Tucker Carlson?

  It doesn't seem any different to me at all, and it all seems disgusting.

• 19:29Speaker 02

  It, I think it disgusts most people.

• 19:34Speaker 02

  But this is what they've been reduced to. And who is, so who is using, or how is Israel able to move this administration to the point where they're even that focused on me that they're willing to not just detain me, but confiscate my phones on my way back with no suspicion of any criminal activity?

• 19:57Tucker Carlson?

  I've stepped on your story like 10 times. What happened when you got back?

• 20:00Speaker 02

  No, it's my fault because I told it the long way.

• 20:02Tucker Carlson?

  Well, there's so much going on. I mean, it's.

• 20:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I wanted to kind of prompt everyone watching this, like, help them understand why this happened.

• 20:10Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 20:10Speaker 02

  It happened explicitly because Israel didn't want me reporting from inside Iran, and they thought that I could be, that they could exploit my vulnerability coming back from Iran to have something terrible happen to me in this area in our country where you are told when you enter, you have no constitutional rights, which is a huge problem.

• 20:35Tucker Carlson?

  When you. You're an American citizen.

• 20:36Speaker 02

  I'm an American citizen, you're an American citizen, you have no rights.

• 20:38Tucker Carlson?

  You were born here, you have no other passport, correct?

• 20:41Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 20:42Tucker Carlson?

  So how do you forfeit your American constitutional rights?

• 20:47Speaker 02

  Once you, so once you are called in for secondary inspection or questioning by Customs and Border Protection, when you arrive from another country, you know, you get like the red X, and then they put your passport in a plastic box and they send you back there. CBP tells you, you do not have, you essentially do not have the same constitutional rights. And so after questioning.

• 21:12Tucker Carlson?

  But you're on US soil, this is in, what airport was this?

• 21:14Speaker 02

  This was Dulles, appropriately named International Airport. And so I come back and, you know, that all happens to me. I got the four S's on my ticket coming back.

• 21:27Speaker 02

  I am questioned and they're asking me questions that seem to follow the same line that Lumer or whoever was handling her or backing her was pursuing. And, you know, I was very cooperative with them and polite. I figured, you know, I don't really have, like, I can be transparent here and be polite with them, rather than if I refused, and you do have the right to refuse those questions, but then you're just going to be there for hours and hours and hours, and they're going to use that essentially to punish you. At the end of the questioning, they, and they searched my bags and everything, which, you know, they wouldn't have a right to do to you outside of there without a warrant and individualized suspicion.

• 22:10Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 22:10Speaker 02

  They then demanded that I open my phones. And, you know, anyone watching this, if you're concerned about having your phones opened or seized, pay close attention to what I'm saying. They said, we're just going to check for evidence of criminal activity and CSM, and so just give us your passcodes.

• 22:30Tucker Carlson?

  Which.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  And I said, that's what I said. And they said, it's child sexual material, and you're looking at you like, and so your natural reaction would be like, I don't have it, I don't have that on my phone, are you calling me a pedo? Like, what the hell's wrong with you? You know, here, just take my phone, those are my kids, you know? But I'm not stupid. So I was like, no, that is a violation of my constitutional rights. And they said, well, then just give us your phones.

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• 25:09Speaker 04

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• 25:51Speaker 04

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• 26:02Speaker 02

  It's us. And from there, if you don't give your phones, they, they have, I've been told, revoked people's passports temporarily. So they took my, they took two phones I had. Oddly, they didn't take my other devices or seem that interested in them, like my laptop. Like, if you think I'm this criminal and I'm some IRGC agent, why wouldn't you take my digital camera or my laptop? You know, you had Hunter Biden on a few weeks ago, like, what if I have the laptop from hell? No, it was just like they were trying to harass and punish and intimidate me and to satisfy Laura Lumer and whatever Zionist crime bosses are behind her.

• 26:43Speaker 02

  A few days later, I go to Janine Eunice, who is a lawyer, who is a true.

• 26:49Tucker Carlson?

  So what happened at the end of the story? Did you get your phones back?

• 26:52Speaker 02

  Well, I'm going to tell you how I got them back. So I go to Janine Eunice, she's a true free speech warrior, like, not like the fake free speech warriors who only.

• 27:04Speaker 02

  Defend the free speech of conservatives or, you know,

• 27:08Tucker Carlson?

  Whatever interests they represent.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, whatever. And then, and then when, you know, when someone says, uh, Israel did a naughty thing, then they want them to be, uh, in prison.

• 27:15Tucker Carlson?

  So she's not Alan Dershowitz.

• 27:17Speaker 02

  She's not Alan Dershowitz or Ben Shapiro. Um, her feelings only care about facts. She's argued at the Supreme Court against the Biden administration's policy of banning social media accounts that had criticized Biden in a lawsuit filed by Republican governors. Uh, she was one of the major critics of the whole COVID lockdown mandate policy from a constitutional perspective. Now she is the president of the American Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, and she's doing these very important legal actions, defending the rights of Americans who are basically being targeted for criticizing Israel. Um, and so we've, she filed a lawsuit

• 28:01Speaker 02

  demanding my phones and all the data they had taken back. A few, I would say, within 24 hours, I got a call from CBP telling me my phones are ready for pickup. So they were holding them for days and days and days.

• 28:15Tucker Carlson?

  Your phones?

• 28:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. And they said, we're going to hook them up to machines. And what I understand that they do is they, they do hook them up to machines and run a program called Celebrite through the phones to brute force open them. That's, that's an Israeli technology. So they're using Israeli technology to get into your phone. Once they get in, they can scrape metadata, access deleted text messages, deleted.

• 28:37Tucker Carlson?

  Your whole life.

• 28:38Speaker 02

  Your whole life. And, um, without a warrant, warrantless seizure is a violation of the Fourth Amendment. So we filed this lawsuit. We actually went to court, um, at the fourth district in Northern Virginia, not the fourth, yeah, the fourth district in Northern Virginia. A veteran judge declared, her opinion, stated her opinion that my Fourth Amendment rights had been violated and that the government was going to have to produce some level of discovery to explain what they did with my phones.

• 29:08Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  And we've expanded the lawsuit. It's now a Fourth Amendment and First Amendment based lawsuit, uh, seeking injunctive relief, basically, that they stop harassing me. And this is for everybody. This is for every journalist. This is for every American who believes they're entitled to their Fourth Amendment constitutional rights at the border. If you have, if, if the government suspects that you've committed a crime, they can get a warrant very easily and search into your phone. But without it, they can't. And that's what the fourth, uh, district has found in cases like Belmonte Cardozo versus the US government, which, uh, the government lawyer wasn't even familiar with. So we're enforcing

• 29:51Speaker 02

  precedent and we're trying to establish and reinforce the precedent to protect the constitutional rights of Americans, which I was denied because a foreign government did not like me reporting from a country which they have attacked, where they have committed war crimes and where they seek to commit further crimes and to basically carry out regime change. That's what this all comes down to. So the, the whole, um, situation has escalated.

• 30:21Tucker Carlson?

  Escalated from that?

• 30:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. Since, uh, we filed this lawsuit, the, I don't even know what to call them. These Israel-first forces in the US are retaliating against me. Uh, weirdly, on Shabbat, uh, two weeks ago, three of the biggest Israel-first Neanderthals in Congress, Randy Fine, Randy Weber, and someone I'd never heard of before, Keith Self, released a letter under, on congressional letterhead through Laura Loomer's Twitter account, calling for me to be investigated. And they didn't produce any evidence that I had done anything criminal. They just pointed

• 31:03Speaker 02

  to my journalism from Iran, uh, and my journalism in general, which had upset Israel, including my investigations into what really happened on October 7th. Me being one of the first reporters in English language or US media to produce massive amounts of evidence or point to the evidence that Israel had killed many of its own citizens on October 7th by initiating something called the Hannibal Directive, which enables the Israeli army to kill its citizens if they believe they are going to be taken captive and become political collateral. Because the price of letting them go over the Gaza border alive

• 31:45Speaker 02

  is more than the price of killing them. And I was heavily attacked for that in Israeli media, even Haaretz, the supposedly left Israeli publication called me, yeah.

• 31:55Tucker Carlson?

  Is that a real, a real concept?

• 31:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a real concept that's been confirmed. Um, it's been confirmed even by the former Israeli Defense Minister, um, Colonel serving on that day, said they enacted a mass Hannibal. Um, it's been confirmed that in Kibbutz Berri, an Israeli tank crew was ordered to fire into a home in which 12 Israelis were being held captive.

• 32:19Tucker Carlson?

  Come on. They killed the hostages on purpose?

• 32:22Speaker 02

  They knowingly killed the hostages. And we reported on that at the gray zone. We were one of the first sites.

• 32:29Tucker Carlson?

  It's so evil, it's hard to.

• 32:30Speaker 02

  One of the, the lone survivor witness to that, um, provided testimony in Hebrew in Israeli media. And we then conveyed that testimony to an American audience at the gray zone. So they, they, they dedicated like a paragraph to my reporting on October 7th. Anyone watching this right now, you can find a documentary called Atrocity Incorporated or Atrocity, Inc., uh, in which I detail all the reporting that I did on October 7th on how Israel, in many cases fabricated atrocities like 40 beheaded babies or, um, Hamas carrying out systematic mass rape in order to manufacture consent for genocide. But there was also the

• 33:12Speaker 02

  fact that they may have killed hundreds of their own citizens on that day. My reporting was eventually corroborated by the same publications that were attacking me. Yedidot Aronot in Israel reported that, uh, in, in an article co-authored by Ronan Bergman, who also writes for the New York Times, uh, over 70 cars were targeted by Israeli helicopters heading towards the Gaza border with all, like many occupants inside. Haaretz said, um, a free fire order was given on that day and, um, you know, possibly hundreds of strikes were carried out under the auspices of the Hannibal Directive. So, I mean, this is getting a little bit off base from the conversation, but for about 400 Israeli soldiers were killed.

• 33:57Speaker 02

  Their bases were targeted on October 7th. Um, those were active duty combatants who were enforcing the siege of Gaza. And so they were, they were the main targets, but there were many other Israelis who were sort of caught in the crossfire, um, seized as captives during a moment of opportunity. Uh, for example, the Nova Electronic Music Festival, which had been like extended for another day, right next to the Gaza border. And then the helicopters come in and start targeting everyone. Another person who seems to have been targeted under the Hannibal Directive was named Gal Abdush, and she was photographed outside of a car which had been, it looked like it had been blown up with a Hellfire missile. She had rigor mortis. She was wearing a small dress because she'd

• 34:40Speaker 02

  been at this rave and her, her legs were kind of spread because she had rigor mortis. So she becomes the subject of a front page New York Times investigation called Screams Without Words about how Hamas had committed mass rape. And they called her the girl in the black dress, whose legs were spread, found by her car. Her family comes out and says, this was totally false. Our daughter was not raped. The New York Times tricked us. And it very much appears that she was one of those cars that was targeted by the Israeli military. So, you know, the, all of this reporting that I've been doing and over the years, I mean, ever since I've been reporting, I mean, you, you, you were around a lot of the kind of neo cons and pro-Israel characters in Washington, and you heard what

• 35:24Speaker 02

  they said about me over the years. So.

• 35:26Tucker Carlson?

  They hated you with a, a unique passion, I would say.

• 35:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:29Tucker Carlson?

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• 36:11Tucker Carlson?

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• 36:36Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC.com, not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 37:06Speaker 02

  So they're looking for any opportunity to basically silence me by locking me up. And they have full control over Trump and the Trump administration. Their best asset is Laura Loomer right now, for whatever reason. And, uh, this was kind of their moment. So they, they get these three figures to call for me to be investigated by the State Department and FBI. And in the letter, they call me, they say, I've been cultivated as an asset by the IRGC, which is complete defamation. Like just, there's no basis for, they, they have no basis for saying that. It's just defamation that, but typical of Randy Fine. And you look at who they are. Like, who, who, who is Randy Fine?

• 37:50Speaker 02

  This guy is desperate to shut down the Constitution for Israel. He's even made littering a hate crime in Florida punishable by five years in prison because some anti-Jewish goofballs called the Goyish Defense League or the Goyim Defense League were like threw leaflets on the ground. Um, you know, he's enforcing the IHRA definition in Florida of antisemitism, which is if you criticize Israel, you're an antisemite.

• 38:16Tucker Carlson?

  The majority of the definitions in the official list of definitions pertain to the state of Israel, not to Jews.

• 38:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. He said he would like to see, I think he said he would like to see the streets of Gaza overflow with blood. I actually challenged him in Congress on his call for Gaza to starve away, which was an interesting example of genocidal intent. He said Gaza should starve away. And I said, do you think like, how, how do you think you would fare in Gaza, given your?

• 38:46Tucker Carlson?

  He'd be last man standing.

• 38:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm sure. Uh, you know, it's ironic to have a figure like him calling, calling for people to be starved. And he's a, he's like a walking advertisement for the American Nazi Party. I mean, no one produces more antisemitism than him. And he, he actually said at a meeting of the Republican Jewish Committee, uh, that he's glad that people are, um, like that, that, that Thomas Massey is blaming the Jews, in his words, for being thrown out of Congress. He took personal credit for throwing Thomas Massey out of Congress. And he's someone who's clearly acting on behalf of Israel. Then you have Randy Weber, who wears an Israeli tie on the House floor. This is tragically the guy who replaced Ron Paul in Texas.

• 39:34Speaker 02

  Um, not exactly a libertarian who believes in the Constitution. He said that the US has to attack Israel because Israel's the apple of God's eye. And Keith Self, I don't know what he does. He's like introduced to build a stop Sharia in Dallas. So like the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders won't be wearing burkas. And Laura Lumer, I mean, it's pretty clear she's being backed by some pretty powerful Zionists. So, and they're calling me a foreign agent. Like, that's like having child protective services called on you by Jeffrey Dahmer and Jeffrey Epstein. It's like, you can't overstate the irony of that. Um, but that's what they did. They put that letter out there and-

• 40:14Tucker Carlson?

  Do you think that you're under investigation?

• 40:16Speaker 02

  How, how would I know?

• 40:17Tucker Carlson?

  Right, you wouldn't.

• 40:18Speaker 02

  I wouldn't know. And you know, this administration seems to be capable of anything. So I don't know where it can go, but I, I'd also wear it as this letter as a badge of honor. I mean, coming from four of the worst people on the planet, singling me out and calling for me to be investigated, criminally investigated for my journalism. I mean, so much of the letter is dedicated to my journalism. To me, it's confirmation that I'm doing the right thing.

• 40:46Tucker Carlson?

  There's something going on that I don't understand that doesn't make sense in conventional terms. And you alluded to it a second ago, when you described Randy Fine as like an agent of the American Nazi Party because he inspires antisemitism. So if I've got a product or a place or a person I'm trying to make more popular, if I'm trying to defend, if I'm selling the Apple iPhone, I'm telling you all the things the iPhone does. It's amazing. It's a camera, it's a weather channel, it's everything, right? I don't make you hate iPhones or telephones or technology if I'm trying, but the people making Israel's case in public are people like Randy Fine.

• 41:24Speaker 02

  Yep. Who has just named the 45th most influential Jew in the world by the Jerusalem Post.

• 41:31Tucker Carlson?

  But why would you, why wouldn't you get someone who is appealing and not hateful and not laughing at pictures of dead children as he has, who's like, it seems like an intentional effort to inspire hate against Israel, actually. That's what it looks like to me.

• 41:50Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 41:51Tucker Carlson?

  What is that?

• 41:53Speaker 02

  Well, that, that's, that's Zionist logic. I mean, Zionism needs antisemitism. Antisemitism is the fuel for Zionism. What would happen if Jewish life were normalized in the, in the West? It would be a disaster for Zionism because there would no longer be a, a way to justify Israel waging war after war, building walls and de facto concentration camps around the indigenous Untermenshion, unless it were a sanctuary for Jews who were experiencing antisemitism and had nowhere else to go. So it's needed. Then you have a whole antisemitism industry.

• 42:33Speaker 02

  What would Jonathan Greenblatt do without the specter of constant antisemitism? Which is why they have to keep redefining antisemitism to be pretty much anyone who's upset with the mass extermination of children and does anything about it is an antisemite.

• 42:49Tucker Carlson?

  Anyone who we don't like.

• 42:50Speaker 02

  Anyone who we don't like. It, what it, it used to be, what, anyone who hates the Jews? Now it's anyone who the Jews hate. That's, but I, I wouldn't even say the Jews. I mean, this is like a, a contingent of Jewish life, which is increasingly extreme, uh, and lives in its own echo chamber. Jonathan Greenblatt, like what, what the ADL is like a multimillion dollar organization with a command center in Silicon Valley. It has its eyes and ears within law enforcement agencies. He basically brags about it being an auxiliary force of the FBI, uh, and that they're conducting spying operations inside activist organizations.

• 43:34Speaker 02

  Uh, what, what if Jewish life were normalized and we were just like, hey, we love America. We are experiencing a golden age here. Uh, we're like the Episcopalians. He, his, uh, gravy train would immediately end and he'd have to go back to being a bottled water salesman, which is what he did before he was at the ADL.

• 43:52Tucker Carlson?

  Well, I actually grew up in a country that was kind of like that. I mean-

• 43:56Speaker 02

  Me too.

• 43:57Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. I mean, I was, we were talking about dinner last night. Like I, I don't, I don't remember, and I would have remembered since I was around a lot of this stuff as a kid. I don't remember there being like stark angry divisions. And, uh, I don't know, golden age, I don't even, but it was, it was great as far as I recall. Maybe I, maybe I missed it, but I never heard anybody express hate toward anyone else, ever. Not one time. So I'm not imagining it now that I'm saying it out loud.

• 44:28Speaker 02

  And Israel can't be at peace either because of Zionist logic.

• 44:32Tucker Carlson?

  Huh.

• 44:33Speaker 02

  With, if, imagine if Israel were at peace.

• 44:36Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 44:37Speaker 02

  Um, first of all, it would be like Israel was in 1966, when the society was uncertain of its own survival and all of these different groups were at each other's, at each other's throats. The Ashkenazim and the Mizraim and the religious, the secular within the country. Then they had 1967 and it was like, suddenly the country became dynamic. And what else happened in 1967? American Jews became very deeply interested, the baby boom generation. And they started going to the kibbutzim and they brought their guitars.

• 45:05Tucker Carlson?

  A lot of immigration that year from the United States to Israel.

• 45:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, you know, so Zionism became this dynamic global force with 1967, which was a war of choice that Israel launched that was totally unnecessary.

• 45:19Speaker 02

  And they portray themselves as this underdog. Now that they have to be in constant war because like, think about all of the, the Jewish or the Zionist billionaire class in the US. A lot of them aren't even very particularly religious. I don't think Bill Ackman is that religious. Um, I saw someone say like he, he rapped to feeling for the first time after October 7th with, with Bill Ackman. This guy runs around rapping to feeling on people.

• 45:47Speaker 02

  Uh, without, if Israel's at peace, it doesn't need you anymore and you have nothing to do. And then your identity, you know, your, your identity comes into question. Like, I don't have anything to do. I don't have anything to donate to that makes me feel Jewish.

• 46:03Speaker 02

  That country doesn't need me anymore. What do I do? What am I? Like, am I going to actually go and like observe real like Talmudic rituals? Like, am I going to actually, um, do Shabbat and put my cellphone away? My smartphone that I write 7,000 word posts on all the time?

• 46:20Tucker Carlson?

  Like, am I not going to drive to dinner in the Hamptons on Saturday?

• 46:23Speaker 02

  So, I mean, it's this, it, it, Zionism has become a central pillar of identity for so many American Jews who wouldn't know how to otherwise be or feel Jewish. And for them, it's, they need this transcendental identity, um, as they start to experience mortality. Sheldon Adelson, I mean, he got into Israel late in life and he said, I want an Israeli wife. And Miriam Adelson comes in and now she's directing his whole empire. So it has to be in a state of war. And Netanyahu is a master of it. He understands the thinking of American Jews and what they need. Uh, he understands how Zionism can be carried forward and he cares more about that than

• 47:08Speaker 02

  he does about the actual- The reality of Jews in the world, or even Jews in Israel, who are in a state of complete social crisis right now.

• 47:19Tucker Carlson?

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• 48:02Tucker Carlson?

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• 48:21Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 48:50Tucker Carlson?

  Can you just give a short summary of what that crisis is?

• 48:54Speaker 02

  Well, first, I don't think these were, I mean, first of all, I did a book. I published a book in 2013 called Goliath. And that was a portrait of Jewish Israeli society from the inside. I spent off and on, like, I was going for a few months and I'd come back for a few months and write off and on for five years I was working on that book. And it's mostly about Jewish Israeli society. It's a portrait of a society that was poised to commit genocide. And why?

• 49:25Tucker Carlson?

  You saw that then?

• 49:26Speaker 02

  I saw it then. And, you know, I took a look at the psyche of particularly Jewish Israeli youth. And, you know, I mean, you can just look at the polls that the Israeli Democracy Index conducts. And, you know, the vast majority of them have genocidal attitudes, at least anti-Palestinian attitudes. And they're more hostile to Palestinians than their grandparents were, for example. So, right now, Jewish Israeli society, they don't necessarily care about the fact that most people in Gaza are living in tents and their faces are being devoured by rats at night. There's no empathy there. But internally, they're in crisis because the part of the population

• 50:10Speaker 02

  that's producing the most children and giving them, like, a positive child replacement rate, birth rate, are the ultra-orthodox. And the secular members of Israeli society, or the religious nationalist members who believe in Zionism, they have to subsidize all ultra-orthodox men to simply be there and read Torah all day. And so there are constant bills being pushed to force those ultra-orthodox men into service in the Israeli military. And what are they saying? The Torah forbids killing. We will not do it. And they've been having huge protests around Israel. Like, you could call them anti-Zionist protests. They get very little attention in US media. They block traffic.

• 50:50Speaker 02

  And the secular part of the society, or the Zionist part of the society, hates them. And what?

• 50:56Tucker Carlson?

  I don't think hate is an overstatement, based on what I've seen.

• 50:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, in many ways, they hate them more than they hate Hamas.

• 51:01Tucker Carlson?

  I totally agree. I've seen it in Israel. It's sad, actually, to see it. The division is so bitter.

• 51:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. And this is going to, this bitterness is going to grow along with the bitterness of the world towards Israel. Then you have all these reservists, like, who served in Gaza, who committed horrific crimes. There's a film out right now that just, that's coming out, a documentary that is getting rave reviews called Naza. And it's made by Yuval Abraham, who's an Israeli journalist and a filmmaker. I think her name is Rachel Shore. These are Israelis, Israeli lefties. And it consists of 24 interviews with Israeli soldiers. Most of them were, like, in military intelligence, involved in targeting on rooftops. And you can't see their faces.

• 51:54Speaker 02

  Their voices are altered. And they're describing the most sickening crimes you can think of. One of them talks about how they were hacking into phones. I guess this is Unit 8200, their cyber division. Hacking into the phones of young girls in Gaza to determine when their fathers would come home. And then they would order an airstrike on their home and listen to the girl burn alive through her phone. The soldiers are comparing themselves to Nazis on, in this film. And now Israeli ministers are calling for stripping the filmmakers of their citizenship and punishing them. Netanyahu, just a few hours ago, released a statement calling the film a blood libel. Then you have other reservists who, you can see them in Knesset. They're like, we are not getting the support we need.

• 52:38Speaker 02

  We're all on drugs and we're all suicidal. They, you know, are playing out their trauma in a different way against their wives, against themselves. And they see these ultra-orthodox men who aren't serving. And they want, they were just like, they want them to be forced into service or they're going to go crazy. And the ultra-orthodox parties are keeping Netanyahu's coalition together, united Torah Judaism. And I think there's a good chance Netanyahu could win. So this crisis is going to increase. There's civil strife now. Could it be a civil war later? Very possibly, especially if Netanyahu doesn't have a big war

• 53:19Speaker 02

  to distract everyone, like the war on Iran. And what, and should we, should we condemn the ultra-orthodox? Should we? Who are the good guys and who are the bad guys here? You got a secular Israeli in Tel Aviv who loves to go hang out in Berlin and have vacations in Bali or wherever they go. And they're totally secular, but they participate in the Israeli military. They help find targets in Gaza. One of them just told this group, Breaking the Silence, that they were asked, they asked their commanding officer for a target and they were told there are 2 million targets. Just find anything you want. So they go and do that. And they believe in political segregation,

• 54:03Speaker 02

  that the Palestinians have to be segregated for them, from them behind walls so they can have their European lifestyle and their raves inside their little, what former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak called, their villa in the jungle. And then you have the ultra-orthodox. What do they want? They want religious segregation in a very traditional Jewish way. They want to live a kind of medieval Jewish lifestyle. But they have no interest in Palestinians. They don't care. They just, as long as they're left alone, the Palestinians are immaterial to them. They don't want to kill them, but they don't see them as particularly like, they're indifferent. So who, who's the bad guy and who's the good guy here?

• 54:46Speaker 02

  The ultra-orthodox are saying killing is against the Torah. And they are going to be forced into the world's biggest, most ruthless killing machine if, if these bills go forward. That's Zionism. And so we're, we're moving towards the terminal stage of Zionism in our lives. And it's creating crisis here and it's creating crisis there. And we don't know where it ends.

• 55:16Tucker Carlson?

  That's within Israel. And yet, all of a sudden, despite, I've lost track of how many fronts Israel is fighting on.

• 55:24Speaker 02

  According to Netanyahu, it's eight. And we are the eighth front in the United States. He said that at a meeting with US influencers who seem to be on Israel's payroll.

• 55:35Tucker Carlson?

  I don't even know what that means. You mean like attacking you?

• 55:38Speaker 02

  Well, sure, sure. I am, I am a target in his war. You are the top target, probably. It's a prop, and it's a propaganda war.

• 55:46Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 55:48Speaker 02

  It could, it could, it could turn into something else if the situation grows more dire for Israel. But right now, it's a, it's a, it's an information war. And it's a legal war. And it's a political war.

• 56:00Tucker Carlson?

  Right. So if some kind of economic collapse were imminent, what would the signs be? Well, the behavior of the central banks that control money supply might be a good clue. So let's take a look at the world's largest economy. That would be China. China imported nearly as much gold in the first half of 2026 as it did during all of 2025. Why? Well, because, of course, they're hedging against coming instability. But it's not just China that's doing this, buying up more gold. Central banks around the world are doing the same. They're dumping US treasuries and buying gold. And they're doing it at historic rates. Huh, that's worth paying attention to. So how are you going to prepare for what's coming? Are you ready?

• 56:43Tucker Carlson?

  Well, I'll tell you what we do, what we have done and will continue to do. We buy gold, actual gold, not abstract gold, but gold you can hold. Gold has always been a store of value and a safe haven investment for all of history. And more than that, it's turned out to be a great investment. It's outperformed the S and P 500 over the last 25 years since 9/11. That's pretty interesting. So we believe in gold, for real. And the most important thing, when you buy gold, is getting a fair price. But it's impossible to do that. It's not easy to buy gold, except at some crazy markup from some company that advertises on cable news. And that's wrong. So we found in Battalion Metals, simple goal,

• 57:26Tucker Carlson?

  provide Americans with an honest and easy way to buy physical gold. Explore your options to secure your savings in gold at battalionmetals.com/tucker. Battalion offers safe storage, discreet shipping, and legitimately expert help with precious metals IRAs. Visit battalionmetals.com/tucker today. So that's a lot for any country of 9 million people to undertake simultaneously. It's also obviously disgusting. But it's just, it's a lot of stuff. It's expensive. It's a lot of things to pay attention to simultaneously. But at the same time, and this does amaze me, Israel seems to be like everywhere, all over Latin America, Africa,

• 58:09Tucker Carlson?

  Somaliland, Argentina, Venezuela, Colombia. All of a sudden, there are Israel-related stories popping up in all these countries around the world. And you're like, wait a second. First of all, how do you have time to do that? Second, what are you doing? And third, what is the point of all that? What are we watching?

• 58:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, these are.

• 58:28Tucker Carlson?

  Am I imagining this?

• 58:29Speaker 02

  Trump has won every.

• 58:33Speaker 02

  Trump has won every election in Latin America over the last two years. I mean, these are candidates that Trump Incorporated controls. Most recently, I think it's Abelardo de la Espritia in Colombia. And in one of the first speeches, he basically pledged loyalty. As since after he won, Abelardo, who was the former lawyer for the cartels, pledged loyalty to Israel.

• 58:55Tucker Carlson?

  Why Israel? What does Colombia have to do with Israel?

• 58:59Speaker 02

  I think it was Evo Morales, the former president of Bolivia. He called Colombia the Israel of Latin America. They were getting a lot of Israeli weapons, training. I mean, going back to 1984, this will help explain some things about this very weird phenomenon. But the Congress passes the Boland Amendment during the height of the Contra War. That requires Reagan or any executive to sign off on covert action. Great piece of legislation. You know, back, remember when Congress used to do intelligence reform?

• 59:36Tucker Carlson?

  So that was the last real attempt was the Boland Amendment.

• 59:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. So Ephraim Riosmont was a US-backed dictator who was also close to like the Christian right, Christian Zionists like Pat Robertson. He was the first evangelical president. And Israel comes in and says, we will supply him. We'll give his soldiers Uzis to basically mow down the Mayans and the what's left of the Guatemalan insurgency and destroy entire villages and we will train them. Riosmont said that our model for the Venezuelan, the Guatemalan soldier is the Israeli commando. And Reagan won't have to sign off on anything. And we will show how valuable we are as a US ally. So yeah, Israel provided them with the computer they used and the surveillance

• 1:00:22Speaker 02

  systems to round up activists who opposed his rule. And from there, you know, it was the beginning of a beautiful friendship with these pro-US governments that were seeking to destroy their supposedly leftist opposition. But it's like across the board, like Ecuador. They have a billionaire president who was born in Miami, Daniel Noboa. And I saw a report a few weeks ago that in Ecuadorian schools, they're now going to teach Holocaust education. And there's nothing wrong with learning about the history of Jewish genocide or the genocide of others in World War II, but it just seems a little bit on the nose.

• 1:01:05Speaker 02

  And he's of course extremely pro-Israel, as all of these leaders are. Juan Orlando Hernandez was collaborating with Israel as he was, in his words, shoving cocaine up the Yankees noses, which led to him being jailed in a federal prison in Miami, along with his brother, who was marking bags of cocaine to the US with his initials, Tony Hernandez. Trump pardons Juan Orlando Hernandez because they needed to legitimize his national party so they could win another, win another election in Honduras. What happened in Venezuela? As soon as Delcy Rodriguez, who Trump says, we'll do whatever we want, comes into power

• 1:01:49Speaker 02

  following the violent abduction of Nicolas Maduro and Celia Flores, his first lady, there's an earthquake, a very fortuitous earthquake, which brings in, who else? Israeli rescuers. I mean, they'll rescue people all around the world, except in the Gaza Strip, where they have destroyed like 80% of homes. And they come in, I don't know how many people they rescued, but the next thing you know, Delcy Rodriguez is meeting in Mir Flores Palace with Israeli military officials. And Israel's relationship with Venezuela is then normalized. In 2009, Hugo Chavez, the nationalist leader of Venezuela, whose first priority was sovereignty,

• 1:02:32Speaker 02

  kicked out the Israeli ambassador in protest of Israel's assault on the Gaza Strip that year. And actually, the first time I ever saw Delcy Rodriguez speak, she was wearing a kaffiyah to show her solidarity with Palestinians. Next thing you know, the US is in charge and Israel's on the ground.

• 1:02:52Tucker Carlson?

  Why would that be a priority for anybody? Like, who cares what Venezuela's posture toward Israel is?

• 1:02:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, why would Maduro's son have to go do a very public meeting at a pro-Israel synagogue in Caracas?

• 1:03:05Tucker Carlson?

  Actually?

• 1:03:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. We never saw that.

• 1:03:07Tucker Carlson?

  But it seems totally irrelevant. I mean, it's, it's across the world. It has no historic relationship. Nobody has a historic relationship with Israel. It's been around since 1948. Like this whole thing has no grounding in like a practical understanding of the world. Like what is, I'm just confused.

• 1:03:26Speaker 02

  And I mean, here's, here's one like concrete thing Venezuela did that Israel got out of this. Venezuela removed itself from the International Criminal Court, a country that, whose diplomatic corps, ever since the, ever since Hugo Chavez came into power in 1998, has emphasized the importance of international law and the Geneva Conventions to guarantee their sovereignty because they've been under constant attack from the US. So they, they, they, they leave, they, they remove themselves as a signer of the Rome Statute and leave the ICC. Because what did the ICC do? They indicted Benjamin Netanyahu for war crimes in Gaza.

• 1:04:07Speaker 02

  And Netanyahu essentially boasted that this was being done on behalf of him by Marco Rubio, when Marco Rubio sanctioned the ICC, like days before Venezuela did that. What is another thing Israel gains out of Venezuela? The Iran War is failing. It has failed. And one of the biggest political problems for Trump is the price of oil and US strategic oil reserves, strategic petroleum reserves. The SPR is, has been at a lower point than 19, it was since 1983.

• 1:04:48Speaker 02

  And so Venezuela has the largest oil reserves in the world. The US just signed a deal at gunpoint with Delcy Rodriguez to exploit one-fifth of Venezuela's oil reserves. And this means that the oil will be instantly transferred or transferred as soon as possible in violation of the Venezuelan constitution, with no guarantee of any return to Venezuela to the US Strategic Petroleum Reserve. And then it will fuel the drive for World War III in a war for Israel. So there are many things Israel can extract from this relationship.

• 1:05:31Tucker Carlson?

  I just don't understand why, you know, whatever you think of what the Trump administration did in Venezuela, and you know, it's kind of hard to defend, impossible to defend really. But at least you thought, well, maybe it was for the United States. But it seems like the first thing they did when they arrested the leader of the country was to force the new leaders to make nice with Israel. Like, why is that the number one priority of our State Department?

• 1:06:01Speaker 02

  The same reason we, the US went to war on Iran. I mean, there, this is an administration that's acting on Israel's behalf.

• 1:06:09Tucker Carlson?

  And you know, Was a slave to Israel.

• 1:06:11Speaker 02

  Absolutely. I mean, and in many cases, personnel is policy. So look at the kind of people in the administration. Susie Wiles, she controls everything the president sees and hears. And you know, you have to get through her to meet with the president, which is why, like when you saw the photos of the administration, when they launched the war on Iran on February 28th, there was Team A in Mar-a-Lago. And what was it? Susie Wiles, Marco Rubio, John Ratcliffe and Trump. And then there was Team B, who was on the outside, Joe Kent, Tulsi Gabbard, J.D. Vance, the so-called restrainers.

• 1:06:52Speaker 02

  Susie Wiles wasn't letting them in the room and she never was.

• 1:06:57Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:07:27Speaker 02

  What was Susie Wiles doing before she was in the Trump administration? Well, she was a major lobbyist, but she also was working for Netanyahu. And no one knew that when she came in. It was subsequently reported by the Washington Post that when Netanyahu was in a little bit of political hot water and was campaigning for reelection, he called in these super-Trump consultants, including Susie Wiles, to help him stage Trump-style rallies. So she literally worked for Netanyahu. You know, it just goes down the line, like Harmeet Dhillon, she's the head of the Office of Civil Rights in the DOJ, which, you know, really increasingly looks like the Office of Israeli Rights. Her law firm is currently, she, she, I think she put her brother in charge of it.

• 1:08:11Speaker 02

  She's not technically in charge of it. It's called Dhillon Law. They are representing a federally registered Israeli foreign agent called Show Faith by Works. They're listed on the FARA form. Show Faith by Works, their job is to basically propagandize evangelicals for Israel, geofence their churches and distribute Israeli propaganda. I got leaked audio from an AIPAC congressional meeting. It was a private, off-the-record event. And someone who identified themselves as a 40-year veteran of AIPAC said, you know, the importance of our lobbying is we, we go down to congressional districts and recruit people right when they come into Congress.

• 1:08:55Speaker 02

  One of them was John Ratcliffe. He said, we went down to Dallas. We heard he was running. He was really good. We've loved working with him ever since then. Marco Rubio is another one and Mike Waltz is another one. These are our lifelines inside the administration, he said. And of course, Marco Rubio's career has been sponsored heavily or advanced by Paul Singer's donations. Paul Singer being a major Israel-first billionaire. So you look at the personnel in there and there's this, and look at what happened to anyone who tried to resist their agenda, which was essentially Netanyahu and Israel's agenda. They're not in there anymore. They're like sitting at this, they, they, they come by this desk and talk to you.

• 1:09:35Speaker 02

  Uh, look at what happened to you. So it just simply follows that Israel will get more or less what it wants.

• 1:09:44Tucker Carlson?

  What is the, what is the big picture goal? Cause like, I think any rational person assessing the facts as we find them right now in mid September 2026 sees the US and the UK really is the last allies that Israel has in the world. And the populations of, but while I'll speak for my country, the population here is becoming aware of the cost, excuse me, of this relationship and, and aware of the genocide in Gaza, et cetera, et cetera. Like people are mad at Israel. It's just obvious and young people especially.

• 1:10:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:22Tucker Carlson?

  So like, if you're Israel, you're not stupid. You know that this is, this relationship is going to change, not to your benefit. What's your plan? What's their plan? What are they doing right now?

• 1:10:35Speaker 02

  You mentioned the UK being a key Israeli ally. I just wanted to, um, mention something that recently happened. Andy Burnham comes in and he recognizes where public opinion is in the UK on the Israel question. So he announces some form of, uh, sanctions or, or the like, that they're not going to buy products from the occupied territories.

• 1:10:58Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:58Speaker 02

  In support of a two-state solution, which is by this point dead. It was a symbolic move. Israel went bonkers. They, they.

• 1:11:05Tucker Carlson?

  Shut down Heathrow Airport in two hours and 35 minutes.

• 1:11:07Speaker 02

  Well, there you go. So hours after his announcement, Heathrow Airport's air traffic control systems had a glitch.

• 1:11:15Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:15Speaker 02

  Coincidence?

• 1:11:16Tucker Carlson?

  It wasn't? I don't know.

• 1:11:18Speaker 02

  Just kind of odd.

• 1:11:19Tucker Carlson?

  I had family members stuck in the airport that day. So a couple of them. So I, uh, I, I don't know. Was there any foreign software at work in that airport?

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  You know, I don't think the UK is going to come out and say, we point the finger at Israel and escalate the situation. I mean, they essentially, Israel essentially toppled the leader of the Labour Party, uh, prior to Keir Starmer. They have a lot of power in the UK. Uh, what are they doing in the UK? They're destroying, they're destroying whatever's left of democracy there through the courts in order to prosecute, uh, activists from this group Palestine Action.

• 1:11:55Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:56Speaker 02

  Which is, and this is, this is.

• 1:11:57Tucker Carlson?

  Correction terrorists.

• 1:11:59Speaker 02

  Terrorists. They're now defined as terrorists by the Trump administration because Israel told them to define these British activists as terrorists almost on the same day that Trump lifted sanctions on the leadership of Al Qaeda in Syria, uh, which we can talk about in a second. So what they're doing in the UK is they're having these trials of these activists who have removed or, or, um, stopped production of Israeli weapons at four state weapons facilities owned by Israel, Elbit Systems in the UK. And what they do is they'll come in, they do direct action where they'll, they'll like smash up the clean room. They will vandalize some things. They try to avoid harming people.

• 1:12:41Speaker 02

  And then they go to court and they go on trial and they have been, um, exonerated or let out in case after case by juries of their peers because the juries, um, sympathize with the argument that what these activists are doing is actually saving lives as Israel's committing genocide in Gaza and that the harm that they prevent is worse than the harm that they caused. And so this has become a real threat to the, not just the British system, but the Israeli project of essentially occupying Britain and its war machine as well. So now what's happening in these trials is the jury won't be told that they're terrorism trials. They think that they're, um, convicting them or acquitting them on criminal charges.

• 1:13:26Speaker 02

  And then the judge applies the terrorism charges after. The media is not allowed to know about that either. The media in Britain is not allowed to report on these trials. So we've been reporting on them at the gray zone because we're American. And one of the barristers who's defended Palestine Action is himself, has himself faced contempt of court charges because his, of, his defense was too effective. He was defending his clients too effectively. So they want to bring that system here. Uh, they want to, Israel needs to de-democratize Western societies in order to maintain control because the population is turning against them. They need to brainwash youth and bring like PragerU curriculum into

• 1:14:08Speaker 02

  state education systems. Uh, they basically need to jail journalists in our country who have interfered with their propaganda objectives like me, and they will activate all their assets to do so. But what they ultimately want, and it sounds kind of extreme, but this is what I've had to conclude. They want global control. As the world forms into a more multipolar world and US empire, um, seems to be receding somewhat, Israel is still determined to gain control at the heart of Eurasia. And that's where Iran is situated.

• 1:14:52Speaker 02

  So imagine, imagine if they had achieved regime change in Iran. There is a group associated with, um, I'm going to forget the acronym for it, but it's like the lobbying group for Reza Pahlavi, the Potomac Maryland-based self-proclaimed Crown Prince. And they put forward a white paper for like the day after in Iran. And the white paper, it said basically the Mossad will come in and help us purge the Islamic Republic, will carry out a mass purge. Israel will be assisting us in, uh, renewing the economy. And they're basically putting Israel at the center of everything in, in Iran post Islamic Republic, post Ayatollah.

• 1:15:33Speaker 02

  So Israel gets control of this strategically located country that represents a 3,000 year old civilization with control over the waterway through which 20% of the world's liquid natural gas passes. What do Russia and China do then? Certainly Russia would have to deal with Israel and China probably would as well. And then Israel has the United States pretty much under its thumb through Trump or some democratic tool like Joe Biden was. And they have Russia and China being forced to deal with them directly as they exist at the heart of this country that's being plundered as Venezuela is. What they're doing in Latin America? I mean, that's what they would do in Iran. So that's the objective.

• 1:16:17Speaker 02

  But do they have a plan? Did they have a plan? Did Netanyahu actually have a plan? No, he marched right into the White House. Remember when he came in February?

• 1:16:26Tucker Carlson?

  February 3rd.

• 1:16:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. They, I always, I remember I was like, I was getting, trying to get across town and they were shutting down traffic. It was like a presidential style visit or helicopters everywhere. We knew what he was up to, but we found out the details later. He marched into, or maybe you already knew them. He marched into the Situation Room, sat at the head of the table. Trump sat to the side, which doesn't seem very Trumpian to me. And, um, David Barnea, the Mossad director at the time was brought in on a big screen. He's now the head of a US weapons company, which is just absolutely.

• 1:16:59Tucker Carlson?

  Absolutely.

• 1:16:59Speaker 02

  Absolutely wild. Yes. Uh, he's, he's not, he's in the private sector now, private sector. Um, and, and, and they give Trump his marching orders. You are going to bomb this meeting of the Ayatollah and his advisors in Tehran on February 28th. We know it's taking place. And Trump just said, okay, all right, boss, I'll do it. And no one was willing to stand up to Trump. He was surrounded by, um, a bunch of yes men. And that was the plan. And Netanyahu said, look what happened. And I don't know if he said this, but I know what Trump was thinking was we just did, look what we just did in Venezuela. We're going to get an Iranian Delsi Rodriguez. Maybe it'll be, uh, Reza Pahlavi and it'll happen in four days. And he was also, he believed his own bullshit about the protests

• 1:17:44Speaker 02

  in January, which I can talk about, which were absolutely like a militarized operation, uh, instrumentalized by foreign intelligence services, including Israel and the US. Um, very violent, but he believed that the Iranian people are going to come out into the streets and just sweep away this regime. And the opposite has happened. So Israel actually had no plan except to get Trump in the war to get the US in, in a state of constant escalation with Iran for as long as possible. That was their only plan. And look at the result. It has been disastrous for the US economy. As you've been saying, week after week, it's been disastrous for Trump politically. He's at historically low approval ratings. There

• 1:18:27Speaker 02

  was a poll out today I saw that showed that most people who believe that the war is affecting their pocketbook interests are going to vote Democrat, 64%.

• 1:18:37Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 1:18:39Speaker 02

  And the, the deficit is 40 trillion. This has a lot to do with the war. The war's going to cost over a trillion dollars. And once you factor in, in 10 years, inflation, the cost of paying veterans and the, the rising cost of weapons and so forth. The US is, you know, expending munitions to the point where it's having to reposition that batteries and pack threes from other supposedly more strategically significant locations. So it's been a blow to US empire. The US as a maritime power is being kind of exposed as a paper tiger. Like it's, it's, it's sailors can't, um, reach land until they go to Thailand, uh, as they've been having food rationed because they were being supplied by bases

• 1:19:22Speaker 02

  that were put out of service by Iranian missiles. So it's been a total disaster because Trump followed Netanyahu's marching orders. Uh, and that, that was the only plan. There, there's no real long-term.

• 1:19:34Tucker Carlson?

  Right. No, he's an instinct player. Netanyahu is obviously, um, and his, his instinct is aggression and expansion. And it's worked incredibly well. I don't think it'll end well for him, but, um, it doesn't answer the question. Everything you said is consistent with what I know to be true. I think that's exactly what happened, but it doesn't answer the question, why Trump, who intensely dislikes Netanyahu, as everybody does, why would he sit in the subordinate position in the Situation Room? Why would he take orders from Netanyahu? He took orders from him before the 12 day war. Netanyahu said, we're doing this and Trump followed him. That's a fact. I'm not guessing.

• 1:20:16Speaker 02

  And Rubio confirmed that in his meeting with the Gang of Eight when he came out.

• 1:20:19Tucker Carlson?

  That's right.

• 1:20:20Speaker 02

  He said, we did this because Israel had, was going in and we couldn't just like leave them alone.

• 1:20:24Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. But I mean, last summer, even the same thing.

• 1:20:27Speaker 02

  Same thing.

• 1:20:28Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. Bibi called him in the sit room and said, we're doing it this week. And the rest is sad history. But the point is, Trump went along with the leader of a country of nine million people who he dislikes personally and who was under indictment in his own country. So that's not a picture of power, at least conventional power. Why would you listen to a guy like that? Why would you follow a guy like that to your own political death? What am I missing? Really? You think that's what it is?

• 1:20:56Speaker 02

  I mean, that's one big factor and you, you, you would, I mean, Miriam Adelson is someone who Trump has said has visited him more and along with her late husband Sheldon in the White House than anyone. And when he was speaking at the Knesset, he said, well, I don't know if she really cares about America. Israel's her cause, but she's an important person. I mean, he openly said that he's like very important. Who was, I mean, you were at the inauguration. Who had the best seat in the House, better than any member of Congress or incoming secretary?

• 1:21:24Tucker Carlson?

  Who breezed right through the magnetometer without being checked at the church service that morning for with Trump. I mean, I was there. She walked right past me and everyone was standing in line, blew right through without, without a security check. She's not even an American.

• 1:21:37Speaker 02

  She's an Israeli warlord, essentially.

• 1:21:39Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. And I was born here and she marched right past me and Charlie Kirk was standing right there. And it was like, this is not a good sign at all.

• 1:21:48Speaker 02

  I remember watching it and I was thinking, we're gonna have a war with Iran. Just looking at her right behind Trump. I was like, that's what's gonna happen. And we're talking about, what, $300 million of donations to Trump over the years or to his PACs as well?

• 1:22:04Tucker Carlson?

  But he got elected. That's where the, I, of course, I completely agree with you and I should say you're from Washington as I am too. So we've like spent our lives watching this. So you're right. But by this point, Trump has been reelected. He wanted to get reelected to be vindicated. They called him, you know, dead in the water. They called him a criminal. They called all these things and he gets reelected president. So it's like, he doesn't need the donors anymore for the Republican Party, but he doesn't care about the Republican Party. So he's basically throwing away his entire legacy, his family's future. All of this is being destroyed because he's following Israel. Why is he doing that?

• 1:22:42Speaker 02

  Well, let me just make another, just tack on a few things to the point I made before and then move on to another more psychological motive that, a theory about his psychological motives. So a week, about a week after Charlie Kirk was assassinated, his podcast, which was being broadcast on Salem Media, was effectively taken over by a federally registered Israeli foreign agent, which was being, yeah. It's called Clock Tower X, which is operating this gigantic, I don't want to say multimillion, it's like 100 million, 50 million. It's one

• 1:23:25Speaker 02

  of the biggest foreign lobbying contracts ever. It's, it's operating it on behalf of the Israeli Foreign Ministry. It's being run by Brad Parscale, who was Trump's Chief of Staff in 2020. Remember, he got Baker acted, like his house was raided and they-

• 1:23:39Tucker Carlson?

  On video?

• 1:23:39Speaker 02

  On video. It's a very ugly scene. He was fired. I'm actually surprised they fired him, given who else they don't fire. But he, you know, and he had created like Trump's whole Facebook strategy, like the, including like the seemingly like bots and probably was a talented guy. Israel hires him, plucks him out of the wilderness and he takes over Salem Media, which is one of the largest pro MAGA, pro Republican, conservative media platforms. They had Charlie Kirk's podcast, but they have like, they have Scott Jennings' podcast, who's being talked about as possibly the next White House Press Secretary. All of these people are kind of like involved with the Israeli Foreign Ministry now. And

• 1:24:24Speaker 02

  if you don't like that, then you can leave, but none of them are leaving. And who got a 30% stake in Salem Media? Laura Trump, Trump's daughter-in-law, and I believe Don Jr. So they are seemingly involved somehow in this contract. And then they also have themselves are doing business with Israeli drone companies, which are getting contracts also to do anti-drone technology in Iran. There's all kinds of incentivization to maintain this relationship. But the break, breaking away from the relationship, and we were just talking about what's hap, what happened in the UK at Heathrow, the day that Andy Burnham did a symbolic-

• 1:25:09Tucker Carlson?

  What happened in Spain?

• 1:25:11Speaker 02

  Remind me. Well, oh, the Sayut, the-

• 1:25:15Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, exactly. They get invaded, you know, give the middle finger to Israel. The next thing you know, Morocco is sending tens of thousands of people into your country.

• 1:25:23Speaker 02

  Yep. Yep. And like every pro-Israel influencer and Israeli official down to Idamar Ben-Gvir was like, ah, this is what you get. F around and find out. So, you know, not doing, not following the program laid out to you by Benjamin Netanyahu on February 3rd is also de-incentivized.

• 1:25:43Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:25:43Speaker 02

  And this really needs to be-

• 1:25:45Tucker Carlson?

  De-incentivized.

• 1:25:46Speaker 02

  That's a, that's a soft way of putting it.

• 1:25:48Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, you're terrified.

• 1:25:50Speaker 02

  So-

• 1:25:52Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPAC.com, not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:26:21Speaker 02

  Back in, was it 2020, Mike Pompeo and Benjamin Netanyahu convinced Trump to assassinate the second most powerful official in Iran, who's the head of, head of the Quds Force for the IRGC, Qasem Soleimani.

• 1:26:34Tucker Carlson?

  Only one person in mainstream media criticized that decision. I'm not bragging. It's the only thing I'll brag about. I was that guy and I took a huge amount of crap for it.

• 1:26:42Speaker 02

  I remember.

• 1:26:43Tucker Carlson?

  But I thought that was the beginning of a war with Iran. Seemed obvious to me.

• 1:26:47Speaker 02

  And it was also the beginning of something else where, you know, you bring the US and Iran into a cycle of escalation. And that's what Netanyahu needed to get. He needed Trump to begin to escalate with Iran and that he wanted Iran to retaliate. The Iranian retaliation for Soleimani's killing in Iraq, as he was on his way to a peace conference, was pathetic. And everyone I interviewed in the Iranian establishment believes that today, if they had hammered US bases the way they're doing now, that this war wouldn't have happened, but that they allowed themselves to be set on this course to war. But what happened with Trump was, he also began to be kind of a psychological prisoner of the retaliation.

• 1:27:29Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 1:27:30Speaker 02

  And the Israelis started to exploit his worst fear.

• 1:27:34Tucker Carlson?

  How is assassination different from murder?

• 1:27:35Speaker 02

  So, yeah, I didn't even mention assassination, but you know where I'm going.

• 1:27:38Tucker Carlson?

  Assassination is murder. And the distinction that we make between the legitimate use of force by the state and homicide is either imminent self-defense, someone's coming at you and you have to kill the person to protect your life or the lives of others, or a process sanctioned by the state called a trial.

• 1:28:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:00Tucker Carlson?

  So any killing outside of those two is murder, right?

• 1:28:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:03Tucker Carlson?

  I thought that was, aren't those the definitions or no?

• 1:28:06Speaker 02

  I, I would think so. But even if you believe assassination is legitimate, you have to think about the consequences of a figure like Soleimani being taken out. And how did, how do Iranians regard him? Millions of Iranians saw him as a hero who prevented ISIS from swamping their country with jihadist fanatics who would come and kill them because they were Shia. And he was a, a direct US ally in the fight against ISIS, who was very effective in defeating them. Actually ISIS attacked Iran's parliament in 2017, killed a number of civilians and Trump essentially mocked Iran and said, if you support terror, you will get terror in return. So Soleimani was fighting that whole project. He was, and

• 1:28:51Speaker 02

  again, he was a national hero. Many Iranians wanted revenge on Trump for that. The Iranian establishment does not have a policy of assassinating because they did not want escalation. They wanted negotiation. But all of these plots start getting rolled out through the FBI that always seemed to involve confidential human sources and informants who are pushing these mentally vulnerable characters. One in particular involved Asaf Merschant, who was a Pakistani national who had traveled from Iran. He was led into the US despite having been flagged on a terror watch list. And apparently all of the intel that got to

• 1:29:32Speaker 02

  the FBI about Merschant was coming from Israel. What happens as soon as Merschant comes into the US, he's seeking some sort of like business deal or something, they throw a confidential human source, the FBI, at him, who starts pushing him to enact a plot to assassinate Trump. He seems to be going along with it. And his, his defense in court was like, I felt like I was a doomed man and there was nothing I could do. He had a very weird trial. But the plot was to have a mob at a, like a group of people create a distraction at

• 1:30:11Speaker 02

  a Trump rally and then to have a sniper use, exploit the distraction to target Trump. Butler happens soon after. Butler PA, Thomas Matthew Crooks, who's sort of one of these lone wolf guys who, I mean, you exposed that he did have a social media footprint, but they were just like, he's seemingly a-

• 1:30:32Tucker Carlson?

  Quite a large social media footprint, which was, you know, clearly in contact with people from foreign countries who we don't, whose identities we don't know. Yeah.

• 1:30:38Speaker 02

  It didn't seem like, there wasn't anything you could find or any investigators could find that connected him to Iran.

• 1:30:45Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I don't think he had any connection to Iran.

• 1:30:47Speaker 02

  Right. Well, the day after the Butler PA plot misses Trump's ear by a millimeter, the FBI rushes down to Houston, I think it was Houston, where Merschant was being held in prison. He had just been arrested. And they interrogate him about Butler. And then Mike Walz, who is, I think, he was in Congress at the time, one of the lifelines of AIPAC, one of Israel's greatest allies in Congress, he starts using the opportunity to try to point the finger at Iran for Butler through the Butler Investigation Investigative Commission.

• 1:31:26Speaker 02

  War, Israel initiates war in June on Iran. It's unclear what the US is going to do. The war is not going very well for Israel. I think they underestimated Iran's capacity to hit back and to recover after its leadership was assassinated. And Netanyahu has a desperate interview on Fox News with Bret Baer, where he's trying to get the US into the war. And he said, Iran is responsible for Butler. And for, he said Iran is responsible for two assassination attempts on Trump. He's referring to Butler and the Mar-a-Lago attempt by Ryan Ralph, Ryan Roth. Which I can talk about in a second, but he's, he understands that's the way into Trump's head is

• 1:32:06Tucker Carlson?

  Such a liar.

• 1:32:08Speaker 02

  And Brett Baer is astonished. He said, what, what are you talking about? Uh, do you have intelligence on that? And Netanyahu said, yeah, through proxies, like, but it's just his own BS. Um, and he's trying to push Trump to get into the war by saying Iran's trying to kill you. You have to take them out. So after, uh, Trump flash forward, um, what eight months? Trump, uh, carries out Netanyahu's wish to assassinate Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and his staff and his children and his grandchildren. And Trump comes out and said, I got him before he got me. So clearly this psychological pressure and a lot of these, um, very dubious assassination

• 1:32:50Speaker 02

  plots were affecting the way he was thinking. Um, he actually, during the 2024 campaign, he went on a decoy flight because the FBI told him that IRGC agents were in the country with man pads and he went on Steve Witkoff's jet and left the rest of his staff to go on Trump force one. So then, so I was in Iran to see this funeral and I was stunned by the amount of anger there. This is after the signing of the MOU. Um, the, the anger ended the MOU, like along with Trump violating eight of its terms, but people were in the streets crying. They were furious. They love, they've considered Soleimani a hero, but killing Khamenei was like another level. Um, and what they would say is, you know, we

• 1:33:34Speaker 02

  considered him to be a father, a teacher, a guide. Uh, how could you do this? He was 87 years old and also you slaughtered our children and Minab, like you slaughtered 130 schoolchildren on the same day you killed him. Like, we're not going to take this. We're a strong nation and we want retaliation. And that means that Trump has to be targeted. And people were holding signs that said, kill Trump. Um, a woman, one woman held up a gold chain and said to me, uh, you know, we're, we're basically collecting a thousand chains for the person who will exact just, who will get justice for what was done to Khamenei, like a bounty. So I, I went, uh, I interviewed the mayor of Tehran, who had

• 1:34:17Speaker 02

  run for president, is in the more conservative camp, a critic of the MOU, like a very big critic of the, um, current reformist leadership that wanted a deal. His name is, um, Ali Razazakani. And I asked him, like, is this the policy now? Like, what do you think of all these calls to target Trump and Netanyahu in the streets from people who are furious about this? And he, I should also mention, he was a friend of Soleimani's and of Hassan Rouhani, who died a mysterious death, the former president who probably should have, who could have been the next Ayatollah. And he said to me, um, you know, we have to respect their call for sacred justice. Um, if we support the revolution and, you know,

• 1:35:01Speaker 02

  he goes on, but justice could be achieved by closing the Strait of Hormuz. Uh, justice could, like revenge could be achieved by removing US bases from the region. Revenge could be achieved through actually rolling back the empire that has been suffocating us. And that's kind of the response of the Iranian establishment. They do not want to target Trump. They don't see any point in it. I, I also interviewed an Iranian academic who understands her society much better than me. And, you know, she reinforced that point and said, Trump is just a figurehead. It wouldn't make any sense anyway. Abbas Aragchi, the foreign minister, current foreign minister, said, Trump is doing a good enough job of

• 1:35:45Speaker 02

  destroying his own, um, his own career and society. Why would we want him dead? And I believe that that's the case. So right after that funeral took place, this is July of this year, NATO happens in Ankara and the Israelis feed intelligence to the secret service that Trump is going to be, uh, there, there are IRGC assassins with, again, with man pads, remember that? Who are in the country and he can be targeted. And, uh, according to many reports in mainstream media, Trump was hidden in a food cart. It's like a scene out of like a Leslie Nielsen comedy from the nineties. He's hidden in a food cart

• 1:36:30Speaker 02

  and taken out of air force one and put in another, on another decoy flight. Um, so the Israelis manipulated Trump into this epic humiliation of hiding in a food court as, as they had manipulated him into war by exploiting his greatest psychological vulnerability, which is his fear of mortality and his fear for this, his very legitimate fear for the safety of his family.

• 1:36:55Tucker Carlson?

  How is this resolved? Do you think the war against Iran?

• 1:37:02Speaker 02

  It's a, it's going to be a protracted war. And I think it could escalate right before the midterms. I saw a report about Trump appointing two unnamed advisors. It's an Axios today, which is never to be trusted, but it's an important, uh, you know, indication of what Trump administration's thinking, because it's basically like a bulletin board for them. Uh, two US officials are putting forward a post-election plan for the Middle East. Well, they, they have no plan and it's going to fail and the war will likely continue as a protracted war. There are many dangers in that, as Joe Kent has pointed out, former

• 1:37:46Speaker 02

  director of counterterrorism center at, uh, DNI, who is now, you know, considered an, an enemy of this administration because he told the truth and tried to prevent this war. Um,

• 1:37:58Tucker Carlson?

  He's one of Trump's only real friends in the entire administration.

• 1:38:02Speaker 02

  I would, I would agree. Uh,

• 1:38:04Tucker Carlson?

  Just to say, he told the truth in a way that Trump really needed to hear. It was almost nobody else would. The fact that they consider Joe Kent an enemy says everything about that.

• 1:38:16Speaker 02

  Well, he believed in America first.

• 1:38:17Tucker Carlson?

  Yes, sincerely.

• 1:38:18Speaker 02

  So many others who've held on seem to just believe in, uh, Trump incorporated.

• 1:38:22Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:23Speaker 02

  He is warning of a nuclear strike.

• 1:38:26Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:38:27Speaker 02

  I think that's the most dire scenario. I don't think a US ground invasion is very likely. Iran's economy is suffering. Like when I talk to people I know there who are just like regular middle-class people, they, they are suffering inflation, but they're not going to head out into the streets anytime soon and seek to overthrow their government. There is a real coming together that I saw in Iran. I was like walking through the Taj Rush market in northern Tehran. Um, I was, I was like, you know, just wanting to get some souvenirs on my way out. And, you know, that's an area where the opposition is to the Islamic Republic is very strong, where wealthier secular Iranians live. And, you

• 1:39:11Speaker 02

  know, talking to shop owners and people around there, you see so many women without what, not wearing hijab around there.

• 1:39:17Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:18Speaker 02

  Um, and you go into the malls at night or the hotels, women are like, they're dressed like they're going to a club in the United States. Just to give you an idea of the, you know, the vibe there, the atmosphere. And people were just, when they said, I said them from the US, they're never furious with me. They just wanted me to know how furious they were about the murder of the girls and the kids in Minab. Uh, and there's a rally around the flag effect. So they're willing to take economic pain. The question is, are we as Americans willing to take so much economic pain? Like gas prices went up like 20 cents this week per gallon. Are we willing to take that for Israel? Uh, are we willing to take more dead American soldiers for Israel who are like black and brown kids who are just

• 1:40:02Speaker 02

  trying to advance in life and maybe save up money through the military who are being wasted at these bases that no Americans even knew existed? Are we willing? I don't think so.

• 1:40:13Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 1:40:14Speaker 02

  So what I, what I can say is like, this, this war is just opening up contradictions that didn't exist before between the American public and the Israeli agenda. And Trump has been caught in between and he's siding with a foreign country.

• 1:40:28Tucker Carlson?

  Except the pain hasn't really started. And it was yesterday, the diesel fuel on which the entire economy runs hit 10 bucks in California, a gallon.

• 1:40:39Speaker 02

  Yep. That's the, uh, what? The Zionist price hike.

• 1:40:43Tucker Carlson?

  Yes. It's not even, I mean, our fuel pumps aren't even designed to register $10, right? I mean, they're going to have to change the pump. So that, you can imagine this becoming not just a squeeze or a downturn, but a catastrophe where people in the United States get poor and people in other countries starve. And like the, the cost is really high if this straight remains closed and if the Red Sea remains closed because of Yemen.

• 1:41:11Speaker 02

  It's an epic, epic catastrophe. I agree with Robert Kagan, who said that this is a greater catastrophe for the US than Vietnam. He's coming at it from a different angle than me.

• 1:41:23Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:24Speaker 02

  And it's, it's, it's, it's an economic catastrophe because it threatens the dollar as the global reserve.

• 1:41:31Tucker Carlson?

  That's correct.

• 1:41:32Speaker 02

  Currency. The $40 trillion deficit is costing the US the confidence of investors permanently. So that's what they're risking here. And this war is a major factor in that.

• 1:41:44Tucker Carlson?

  How long? So, so this is like another way to gauge what's actually happening. So Trump does follow commodities prices. Get him on your phone and he is worried about it. He's absolutely worried about fuel prices, for example. Um, and not just fuel, food. Those prices go up. He really feels that. The only way out is to constrain Israel. So it's just, it's a binary. It's a choice. It's like disaster at home or loyalty to Israel. And he's, at least as of right now, he's choosing loyalty to Israel. So like, what could possibly explain that behavior? I just think it's the weirdest thing I've ever seen.

• 1:42:25Speaker 02

  And like, nobody's being held accountable in the administration.

• 1:42:27Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 1:42:28Speaker 02

  Pete Hegseth, he's not being held accountable. He's hiring propagandists as secret special employees. Uh, they just put Erica Kirk essentially, they just made Erica Kirk essentially a Pentagon propagandist too. She was appointed to the board of the Air Force Academy. Uh, it's, it's an absolute joke what they're doing. There's, and, and there's no, there's no sense from Trump that anything that has happened has, uh, you know, that, that anything hasn't gone according to plan. He keeps saying the Iranian military is destroyed. The Iranian navy is destroyed. They, US controls the Strait of Hormuz. Meanwhile, Ansarallah, the

• 1:43:12Speaker 02

  Houthis are advancing and taking unprecedented amounts of territory from the fake Yemeni government, which is based in a hotel room in Riyadh. They could close the Bab al Mandeb, which is another extremely strategic waterway. What would that do to the US economy? There are more cards that Iran can lay down on the table if Trump doesn't start to pull back and find a way out of this. I think he probably does want to find a way out of it.

• 1:43:39Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, definitely.

• 1:43:40Speaker 02

  He just doesn't know how.

• 1:43:42Tucker Carlson?

  Well, he can't do the one thing that's necessary, which is to constrain Israel. And I just don't understand why. As you, I mean, no matter how much money they promise you or radio shows they sponsor or whatever they're doing, in the end, you're looking at like becoming the most unpopular president in the history of our country.

• 1:43:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I mean, his, his, the midterm strategy is all about getting out the base. It's, you know, Trump won because he went beyond his base and people, people who would not have even voted decided to vote for Trump in 2024. His base is dwindling and part of this also is weaponizing the government to target dissenters and calling everyone to the left of Barry Goldwater in 1964 a communist. The insane anti-Muslim hysteria that they're trying to whip up, exploiting the 25th anniversary of 9/11.

• 1:44:36Tucker Carlson?

  They're calling me a socialist and accusing me of being too pro-Muslim.

• 1:44:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:40Tucker Carlson?

  Then you know things have gone completely crazy.

• 1:44:44Speaker 02

  But that's all they have left is a very dwindling cult-like base that largely consists of, you know, Fox News boomers.

• 1:44:51Tucker Carlson?

  Is mad about Sharia law? I know they don't like Sharia law because it prohibits usury. So I get it. Okay. But just kidding, sort of, but, uh, sorry. It does. But no, but the point is, whatever, not defending Sharia law. Of course, I'm an Episcopalian. However, I don't remember the last time I was frustrated by Sharia law. It's not like an issue in this country. Prices are an issue. Lack of opportunity is an issue. Drugs are a massive issue. SSRIs that are making everyone crazy and causing mass shootings. There are a lot of issues, right? But Sharia law, they're running on Sharia law? Like what, who thought this up?

• 1:45:26Speaker 02

  That's their strategy against Abdul Sayed. You know, you saw Jesse Waters ask him about that in there.

• 1:45:32Tucker Carlson?

  That's the candidate in Michigan I supposedly endorsed.

• 1:45:35Speaker 02

  That you supposedly, I think like some Manhattan Institute front group said you officially endorsed him.

• 1:45:40Tucker Carlson?

  Which is absurd.

• 1:45:44Speaker 02

  So, so.

• 1:45:45Tucker Carlson?

  I don't know anything about him.

• 1:45:46Speaker 02

  Did, did you?

• 1:45:47Tucker Carlson?

  Of course not. I don't endorse anybody. I'm a podcaster, but moreover, I just know the guy he's running against who's a loathsome person, who is exactly that. Mike Rogers is exactly the Republican you run if you want to lose. And they ran him before and he lost.

• 1:46:03Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:46:04Tucker Carlson?

  Because no normal person would ever vote for Mike Rogers. He is the embodiment of everything that is ugly, immoral and stupid about the national security state.

• 1:46:12Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:46:13Tucker Carlson?

  He is a tool of repression. I mean, he's totally for warrantless spying and searches and like everything that conservatives should be against. Mike Rogers is not a conservative, to put it mildly. So I said, this is craziness. You're Mike Rogers? No way. And they're like, well, you endorsed the Muslim guy. Okay.

• 1:46:33Speaker 02

  He, he's, he's like the distillation of everything disgusting about the neocons.

• 1:46:38Tucker Carlson?

  Actually, actually craven, stupid, like, and, and, but mostly does, just doesn't care about the United States and what's happening here.

• 1:46:47Speaker 02

  People will say, oh, well, Max Blumenthal, he's a leftist. If we Google him, it says far left. So, so fine. It's not about me or what I think about this race. It's about what Michiganders think. And, uh, their economy is linked to Canada. Trump kind of screwed Mike Rogers with, uh, initiating a trade war with Canada. I mean, so much of Michigan's exports depend on Canada. Cars are being assembled, like they're getting parts from there. So, I mean, there are all of these kitchen table issues that are being completely ignored for these boutique fanatical causes like creeping Sharia.

• 1:47:26Speaker 02

  And there's not, Trump is not setting the stage for a new generation of conservatives to come in enthusiastically and support whatever comes after him. I think what happened to TPUSA is a great kind of metaphor for what's happening overall with MAGA. It's sort of like a microcosm for what's happened to MAGA with the untimely death, removal of, of Charlie Kirk, who was being forced to reckon with the fact that his base, the young conservatives were done with Israel. They were sick of it. They didn't think it comported with America first, and he was starting to get in tune with them.

• 1:48:08Speaker 02

  I, I see no evidence, just in case anyone's watching this and trying to call me some conspiracy theorist. I see no evidence, I have no evidence that Israel was responsible for his assassination. But what happened was with one bullet, one of the greatest threats to Israel's control over the movement he represented was removed. He was like the only guy with that level of power who could get in the Oval Office with Trump, who was even willing to lobby Trump against, uh, joining the Israeli war on Iran back in June 2025. Uh, he was the only one who could get in the way and get in tune with the younger conservative base that was filling up TPUSA events. And he's gone.

• 1:48:52Speaker 02

  And what replaced him? Erica Kirk, who seems to be herself a complete tool for the national security state, which is why she's on the board of the Air Force Academy now, um, whose mother was a defense contractor who helped kind of launch her first foundation and who has allowed Israel back into the building. Remember, I mean, I broke the story about Dr. Bob, Bob Shillman, the largest donor to TPUSA, who was an Israel-first centimillionaire who also sponsored the career of Laura Lumer. He wanted his name on a building at TPUSA's campus in, I think Scottsdale.

• 1:49:32Speaker 02

  And days before Charlie Kirk was assassinated, he denounced him at a private gala, an awards gala in LA and said, I'm not giving him the $2 million. I managed to confirm that and reported it. It's true. I don't know if Bob Shillman is funding TPUSA, but I uncovered a contract.

• 1:49:51Tucker Carlson?

  Why did he not give the money? What was he mad about?

• 1:49:54Speaker 02

  That's a great question that I haven't explained. Charlie Kirk was opposing the war on Iran. He was questioning the, he was, he was questioning Israeli, the pro-Israel control over himself. He went on Megyn Kelly's show in, uh, May of 2025, or was it later? And complained about Jewish stakeholders and supporters who are becoming, who are becoming hyper-controlling and demanding and telling him that he has to care obsessively about a foreign country. I also exposed how there was a secret influencer summit convened by the pro-Israel billionaire Bill Ackman in the Hamptons in August of 2025.

• 1:50:39Speaker 02

  And Charlie Kirk was there and he was screamed at by this Zionist lawyer, Natasha Hausdorff, because he started questioning why he had to center everything around Israel and why he couldn't host you at his youth conferences. That's what they were demanding. No Tucker Carlson on the stage.

• 1:50:58Tucker Carlson?

  I spoke at a lot of them and really enjoyed it, every one, you know?

• 1:51:01Speaker 02

  So now it's like TPUSA, if you look at the way it's talked about in the conservative grassroots, like anything or any, any organic person would talk about it, it's seen as an op or like a psy-op. It's regarded with deep suspicion. And I got a leaked contract between them and a group called the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews, which is a very shady organization, which is the second largest non-governmental donor to the government of Israel. Its president is based in Israel and they had pledged $700,000 to TPUSA, uh, in May of 2025, when Charlie Kirk was alive.

• 1:51:43Speaker 02

  And he was, you know, I, I think what he was saying about Israeli control over the movement, about Iran, was threatening that donation as well as many others. But under Erica Kirk, it's very clear that that donation has continued. And now the, the TPUSA faith events that you see, including one recently in El Paso, where an Israeli flag was draped on the stage, those are being sponsored in part by the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews.

• 1:52:13Tucker Carlson?

  And these events are in churches?

• 1:52:14Speaker 02

  They're in churches and this is just.

• 1:52:16Tucker Carlson?

  Why would an American church put, by the way, any national flag in a Christian church? I've never understood that. But certainly a foreign flag in a Christian American church? Like, why would you do that?

• 1:52:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, if you are the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews, you basically want them to be good little foot soldiers for this foreign country's agenda by exploiting, uh, their interpretation of the Bible and the end times. The international, IFCJ, this group, they have an agenda to plant 3 million flags on, in churches globally. But also what they do, they're a deeply corrupt organization. Their founder, who's now dead, Yaakil Eckstein, he paid himself $1.2 million. He paid his family hundreds of thousands of dollars. They raise money from poor and working-class Christians around the, not just in the US,

• 1:53:12Speaker 02

  but in Latin America, where like half the population lives below the poverty line. And they give it to Israeli organizations and extremely wealthy, pro-Israel-American Jewish organizations, like the Jewish federations. They also are giving money to failing media organizations like Ben Shapiro's Daily Wire, which has had to lay off executives. They, uh, have like dwindling viewership. He's been bleeding YouTube subscribers. And so he has paid, a paid partnership with IFCJ and he hosts interviews with their new president, Yael Eckstein. Who else, who else gets, uh, paid partnerships with them? Mark Levin, I think has one. Ted Cruz, and this is wild.

• 1:53:57Speaker 02

  This is so wild. Ted Cruz has a paid partnership with IFCJ and.

• 1:54:04Tucker Carlson?

  Now?

• 1:54:04Speaker 02

  Now, and-

• 1:54:05Tucker Carlson?

  He's a senator, he's a sitting senator.

• 1:54:07Speaker 02

  Well, you know, seemingly that would be legal because they're technically a non-governmental group, but he's also getting, taking ads, ads are running on his show on iHeart Media from the Israeli government itself. And iHeart Media has an arrangement with Ted Cruz to donate that revenue to a PAC, I think it's called Truth and Courage, associated with Ted Cruz that supports his reelections.

• 1:54:30Tucker Carlson?

  What?

• 1:54:31Speaker 02

  So indirectly, it looks like the Israeli government is supporting Ted Cruz, whose office is basically, um-

• 1:54:39Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, is that illegal? Can a US senator take foreign money for a campaign?

• 1:54:44Speaker 02

  You would think it would be, but, uh, I don't know, Pam Bondi got rid of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Division of the Department of Justice, which is involved in Farah right when she came in. Uh, so there, there, there, there's all kinds of, this is, this is shady. I don't know why it's legal. It was upsetting Charlie Kirk. Um, and now there's no resistance to Israel or these Israeli proxies. Actually, after Charlie Kirk was killed, the IFCJ, International Fellowship of Christians and Jews, which channels money from working class Christians to powerful Jewish groups and Israel, hosted an event in Jerusalem alongside the Israeli Foreign Ministry,

• 1:55:29Speaker 02

  and they gave an award to Erica Kirk, uh, in the name of Charlie Kirk. And they wanted to basically claim Charlie Kirk and bury this whole thing that, you know, he was, this whole crisis that he had caused for them. And Erica Kirk started getting criticized when word leaked that she was going to accept the prize because, you know, as we understand, younger conservatives are not very happy about the way Israel is, um, influencing the US government. And so Andrew Kovett, who's their PR guy, said, no, this is all fake. Erica Kirk had nothing to do with this. Uh, and it was too soon. It was too soon for

• 1:56:11Speaker 02

  them to embrace Israel. But then she goes on a town hall with Barry Weiss on CBS, like a very eerie and cringe-worthy town hall. Um, the whole thing felt staged.

• 1:56:22Tucker Carlson?

  Barry Weiss tried to humiliate her, really, I thought.

• 1:56:25Speaker 02

  There, there was an element of that. Barry Weiss being the self-proclaimed Zionist fanatic, who is the editor in chief of CBS News installed by Larry Ellison's son, who's himself very connected to Israel. And Erica Kirk said, why would anyone hate Israel? Me and Charlie went there and we walked where the Bible, when we saw the Bible come alive, how could anyone hate that place? Charlie loved Israel. And so she's already trying to reverse his position. She was asked, uh, do you oppose the war on Iran? And she refused to answer the question. So that's gone. But what's also gone is TPUSA's credibility. And since I published that leaked contract and my whole analysis of everything that's happened over

• 1:57:07Speaker 02

  the past year at the Gray Zone, uh, all we've heard from TPUSA is that a statue of Charlie Kirk was defaced, uh, at their campus. And that's all they're focusing on. They're not responding to anything. Like Andrew Kovett didn't respond to me. Um, and you know, I hope they produce CCTV footage showing that and they catch whoever did that, which is disgraceful, but they have, that, that's what they're focused on.

• 1:57:33Tucker Carlson?

  It's so sad to see, and I really have, obviously I know all those people and I've tried to, and I like a lot of them, most of them, really. I like most people. But, um, I try to give everyone the metaphor of the doubt and they're in a super tough spot and I get it.

• 1:57:47Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:57:47Tucker Carlson?

  One thing I really do resent is the idea that when you bring up stuff like this, they, some of the people you mentioned will say to you, you know, you're kind of obsessed with the Jews. It's like, well, I'm in no sense obsessed with the Jews. Obsessed with my kids, uh, and a lot of things, but not the Jews at all. Other people are obsessed with Israel in a way that's really destructive and ugly, I think. But it's not even, quote, Jews who are doing this. It's the Christian Zionists who are doing it. And so like, it's, it's like, not a good faith response at all. Why is there an Israeli flag in a church at your event? Shame on you. Like, it's super simple. And they'll be like, oh, you hate the Jews? Okay. Nope. Don't hate the Jews. Hate that behavior.

• 1:58:31Speaker 02

  Isn't the point of Christian Zionism to make Christians obsessed with the Jews? Because you place Jews at the center of history and you are dependent on the Jews in order to achieve the rapture?

• 1:58:43Tucker Carlson?

  I've read the New Testament a lot, like every day, and I just don't see any of that in the New Testament. So I really don't know what it is exactly. I think there are an awful lot of very nice Christian Zionists who are decent people and I would give them my routing number and have no fear of theft. However, there is a spell that settles over people and you wind up with a lot of people, including some I know, who are like, no, no, we need to support people who reject Jesus as they kill Christian children because Jesus wants us to. And it's like, can you hear yourself? That is not what the New Testament tells us. Like, I'm just, I don't know where you're coming up with that.

• 1:59:19Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I mean, that would be one Christian interpretation.

• 1:59:23Tucker Carlson?

  I don't think it's a Christian interpretation.

• 1:59:25Speaker 02

  Another Christian interpretation comes from Pastor John Haggie, which is that, um, all Jews need to be gathered in the quote unquote Holy Land, which is Greater Israel in order for the rapture to take place. And that Hitler actually was part of the rapture because he helped, uh, establish Israel through the Jewish genocide in Europe. And that Herzl was also part of the rapture in that he brought, he created this concept through which Jews could be gathered. He said that. He calls it, Hitler was a hunter and Herzl was a fisher, something like that. He also said that, um, that the, the anti, I mean, he, he said so many bizarre,

• 2:00:09Speaker 02

  um, things, but the point is, they want Christians to be obsessed with the Jews and they want them to be philosemitic to the point where I get deeply uncomfortable. Philosemitism feels like the other side of the coin.

• 2:00:22Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 2:00:23Speaker 02

  From antisemitism, have you ever heard the ads that IFCJ, this Israeli-based group, which is sponsoring TPUSA, has been running like all across the radio in the US? They come on and they say, you can save one Jew for $700. You can rescue a Jew from a life of antisemitism by sending them on one of our freedom flights to Israel. Give us your money and save a Jew. And it's like, look at the state of Jewish life in the US. Do we need to be saved? I mean, this is crazy, but they've convinced people that they have to give them their money to do that.

• 2:01:02Tucker Carlson?

  I think that's such a smart point. I used to, yeah, I used to hear this from,

• 2:01:08Tucker Carlson?

  uh, you know, I knew a couple of black leaders who I didn't agree with on a lot of things, but they always hated white liberals and I did too. We hate them for different reasons, but they dislike white liberals because they would have this sort of fake worshipful attitude, like you're holy because you're black. And like, it makes me uncomfortable. Like, I'm just a person. It's important to treat people as human beings and not, obviously denigrate or dehumanize them, of course, that's evil, but also not deify them. That's also evil. Like, they're people, just like us, just like me, just like you. Do you know what I mean? Like, there's a very, that is the flip side of hate, actually.

• 2:01:43Speaker 02

  Yep. And you are told in Christian Zionist churches, and, uh, there's actually a film, I'm forgetting the name, it was made by Israeli filmmakers, showing a church in Appalachia where the pastor is telling, um, young, young people that, uh, the Jews are better than you. Those are his exact words. It's going viral on X right now, um, clips of this film. But I've seen that, you know, going to Christians United for Israel conferences and seeing the way they treat me when they see my name is Blumenthal.

• 2:02:14Tucker Carlson?

  How do they treat you?

• 2:02:15Speaker 02

  They're like, oh, Blumenthal, wow. Well, you know, you're Jewish and we just believe that, you know, you are special and you are blessed. And they want to be Jewish and they blow shofars and they wear tallit, you know, the Jewish prayer cloth. And they, they basically like impersonate Jews. It's kind of like a minstrel show. Um, I had the same reaction like a black person would have to seeing like Al Jolson, you know, in his prime. And, and Israel's behind this whole thing. AIPAC helped set up that organization. Uh, they are dependent on that organization and they are running a basically philosemitic minstrel show across the heartland.

• 2:02:59Tucker Carlson?

  So how does this, I mean, it doesn't feel like this whole moment can end well.

• 2:03:04Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:03:04Tucker Carlson?

  Like, what's your, how do you think in the end this is resolved?

• 2:03:08Speaker 02

  I don't know. Will this podcast end well? Like, what's gonna happen to me when I walk out of this barn?

• 2:03:12Tucker Carlson?

  I don't know. I mean, by the way, I don't think you've said, I mean, I know you haven't said anything hateful or unfair. I, you know, you said a lot of things I haven't personally reported, but I, I think you're a meticulous reporter. I don't think you've been attacked too much for being wrong. I think you've been attacked for having unpopular opinions, which are two different things.

• 2:03:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, from, how will this all end? From, from my point of view, um, I can't.

• 2:03:38Tucker Carlson?

  We've got two worse.

• 2:03:39Speaker 02

  I'm not, I'm not, I'm not Professor Jiang.

• 2:03:41Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 2:03:43Tucker Carlson?

  I kind of love that guy. Every time we had him on, I must've gotten 100 texts. He's, this is an op, it's a psy-op. And it's like, okay, first of all, what isn't, but I'm not even sure, whatever. But I still think he's interesting.

• 2:03:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I, I crossed paths with him in LA, so I interviewed him driving around and we were like driving around Skid Row and I was just getting his impressions, because I, I'm in favor of engaging with people with different perspectives.

• 2:04:06Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, me too.

• 2:04:07Speaker 02

  Um, and I got the same thing, like 100, 100 people, probably from another perspective, saying he's an op or he's this or that.

• 2:04:14Tucker Carlson?

  Don't you think he's interesting as a thinker?

• 2:04:16Speaker 02

  It was an interesting conversation. I avoid, people love to hear people make bold predictions and then try to back it up and double down even when they're proven wrong.

• 2:04:25Tucker Carlson?

  Of course. Oh, gosh.

• 2:04:25Speaker 02

  Uh, and I'm just not gonna, I'm not gonna do that.

• 2:04:28Tucker Carlson?

  I guess I just feel like we've got simultaneous crises accelerating at once. You've got this war in Eastern Europe, you've got this war in the Middle East, and you have the collapse of the two-party system. Well, it hasn't collapsed, but I mean, it's been revealed as fake. And you have very intense discontent at the center of both parties, and then you have this looming financial disaster. That's a lot at once.

• 2:04:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. It would, it would seemingly be a major blow to unipolar US power.

• 2:05:01Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:02Speaker 02

  I think, you know, the whole, the whole world of, that the, the, the whole, um, psychological world that the neocons created in the 1990s as reality. Like, they actually convinced the American political class, a large section of American society, and the, and US corporate media, that their worldview was reality. And they got the Iraq war out of it and so on.

• 2:05:33Tucker Carlson?

  They did.

• 2:05:34Speaker 02

  That reality has completely shattered. And what we're going to see is just an increasing, growing clash between our,

• 2:05:47Speaker 02

  I, I don't know what to call them. It would be crude to call them the ruling class. They, but that's what they are. Um, 1.1% of the United States, who is increasingly afraid of the rest of the public, knows they no longer have consensus for their agenda.

• 2:06:05Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 2:06:06Speaker 02

  No leadership in either party has real credibility or identity after Trump. We can't even, we, no one can even visualize who the Democratic candidate might be.

• 2:06:17Tucker Carlson?

  That's right.

• 2:06:18Speaker 02

  There is a deep-seated fear.

• 2:06:20Tucker Carlson?

  Or the Republican candidate, for that matter.

• 2:06:22Speaker 02

  There's a deep-seated fear of, um, stochastic violence or terrorism from the 1.1% carried out by lone wolf individuals like Luigi Mangione against the ultra-rich, as well as direct action protest. And they're classifying everyone as terrorists, which we all saw coming after the Patriot Act was passed. And now it's sort of reaching its culmination. And so what we can say is the US will be less democratic, the US public will be, uh, less economically stable, the country will be more politically unstable,

• 2:07:04Speaker 02

  and there will be more and more desire for a kind of political insurgency, yet there's no clear leadership. Who are the leaders right now? Who are the, who are, who are the figures that people look to? One of them is you. I never would have thought that, although, you know, having known you for several years, I'm not entirely surprised, um, that now you can like walk through an airport in a liberal city and people are like, um, approving of what you're saying.

• 2:07:37Speaker 02

  People look to comedians like Jimmy Dore or Tim Dillon. Comedians have far more credibility in our culture than politicians. And people are looking for real credible independent journalism that isn't corporate journalism, because they finally understand the point that, um, Michael Parenti made in his book, Inventing Reality, which is one of the most important books about the media, which is that the, the concept of reality or of objectivity within the media is a ruse or a device which corporate media enforces in order to enforce their own ideology.

• 2:08:18Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 2:08:19Speaker 02

  Which is now coming out. What is their own ideology? It's whatever Palantir's ideology is. It's whatever Larry Ellison's ideology is. It's whoever, whatever their corporate masters ideology is. And of course, they're militantly Zionist as the US population is turning against the special relationship with Israel. So in that respect, it's, it's a, it's, it's a generally good time for media. And the, the problem is there's no political leadership, uh, to guide this anywhere. And it may be off limits in our political system. That will be exposed very shortly.

• 2:08:58Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. I mean, there is a red line there somewhere. I mean, it's one thing to talk about what changes we should have on a podcast, say.

• 2:09:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:09:06Tucker Carlson?

  It's another thing to try to affect those changes in the political arena, and that's when we find out exactly.

• 2:09:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean.

• 2:09:12Tucker Carlson?

  What's up?

• 2:09:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I agree. Uh, but I think, do, do Americans want a violent revolution? No.

• 2:09:21Tucker Carlson?

  No, of course.

• 2:09:21Speaker 02

  They want to see real reforms and we haven't seen them. I, I don't think there have been any important reforms in my entire life.

• 2:09:29Tucker Carlson?

  Never.

• 2:09:29Speaker 02

  All we've seen.

• 2:09:30Tucker Carlson?

  We still have carried interest in the tax code.

• 2:09:32Speaker 02

  NAFTA and what happened to Ross Perot when he campaigned against it. Uh, the, the, um, the, the Federal Communications Act, the deregulating media, um, and, and no real antitrust legislation, nothing to bring down prices. I mean, with just a constant, uh, constant conveyor belt of deregulation. And, uh, still, the public has nothing to hope for right now. So that's, so I, so what can I say? It's, it sounds like a black pill, but I think.

• 2:10:08Tucker Carlson?

  I just gotta say one thing, because I can't, and it's about me, so I'm embarrassed, but I just have to say it, because I just realized it. So 1996, 30 years ago, I'm working at the Weekly Standard for Bill Kristol with Bob Kagan.

• 2:10:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:10:19Tucker Carlson?

  David Brooks and, you know, the whole cast and, uh, of neocons. I got along with them all, John Podhoretz, and, um, I'm 26 or whatever. And, uh, Bill Kristol assigns me a piece on Ross Perot. And basically, my marching orders are, he's crazy, go prove it. So I write this piece and it was my first cover story, and it was called, Is He Nuts? And Bill Kristol called around and got me in every TV show to promote this piece or whatever. And I remember feeling, you know, it was a decently written piece, it was incredibly nasty in the way that young people write really nasty magazine pieces, as I know you know. And it was, it was 25 years before I realized I'd been completely used. Completely, it's to my shame. I mean, I agreed to it. I did it. It's all my fault.

• 2:11:02Tucker Carlson?

  But I was used to stop Perot, not because he was crazy, everyone in politics is crazy. He's like one of the least crazy people and probably married to the same woman his whole life, right? He wasn't crazy, really, compared to what? Lindsey Graham? John McCain? No, because he had a take on economics that wasn't populist exactly, but it wasn't neoliberal. And that was the real threat, and they hated him for that.

• 2:11:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and he was a extremely wealthy eccentric character who was comfortable in his rank, who couldn't be pushed around and didn't care.

• 2:11:38Tucker Carlson?

  Smart.

• 2:11:38Speaker 02

  That's, that's the fear, or the fear of someone like a Roosevelt, taking on the economic royalists who comes from American aristocracy.

• 2:11:46Tucker Carlson?

  That's right.

• 2:11:46Speaker 02

  I think there's a fear of you for the same reason, that you just feel too comfortable in who you are. I don't know if you would ever consider running.

• 2:11:55Tucker Carlson?

  I have no interest in running for anything ever, but I certainly feel comfortable in who I am and I'm not intimidated by them, that's for sure. Who are these people? Yeah. That's how I feel. But anyway, um.

• 2:12:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, and I, I want, I want, you know, that's, that's how I come out of this whole episode of being targeted by Randy Fine and Laura Loomer. It's like, I'm not gonna be intimidated. I'm going to escalate journalistic activities.

• 2:12:20Speaker 02

  I was actually, a couple of weeks ago, not far from here in Vermont, at the Bread and Puppet Farm. And that's, you know, one of the, it was one of the first and now the last sort of anti-imperialist puppet troops. And they put on this really fun anti-war circus and people come for miles around to watch it. And I gave a talk there. They hosted me to talk in a barn. And I learned, um, about the history of Bread and Puppet. It was founded by this, uh, figure named Peter Schuman, who's now 92. His family were liberal Germans. They were not Jewish, but they opposed the Nazi regime. They fled Nazi Germany. He met a woman, um, Elka Nearing, I believe her name was,

• 2:13:02Speaker 02

  who helped him sharpen his politics. And I learned about her grandfather, who was named Scott Nearing, who apparently with his wife had a farm not far from here where we're sitting. Um, and he helped popularize the homesteading movement. Scott Nearing was one of the major opponents of World War I. He saw it as kind of a, a war for the plutocrats, that the only winners of this war in which like the senior class of Princeton was liquidated in minutes in battles, uh, were the, was the plutocracy. And I, you know, I went, you know, you read his arguments then and what he was saying in debates. It's very similar to, um, what I'm hearing now from opponents of the Iran War.

• 2:13:43Speaker 02

  And he ran for Congress in New York against Fiorella LaGuardia, who was coming back from World War I as this great war hero. And the Republican Party and the Democratic Party closed ranks and essentially conspired to stop Scott Nearing from, from winning a congressional seat, because he opposed what both parties truly agreed on. He opposed the duopoly back then. He was prosecuted under the Espionage Act. He was basically driven out of, you know, polite society. And that's how he got into homesteading and selling maple syrup. He thought it was the only way he could have intellectual freedom, and it brought him up here to where you spend a lot of time.

• 2:14:27Speaker 02

  And so I think we have to consider that, like, politics within both parties is increasingly off limits to people who think independently and are willing to call out bankers, bankers' wars.

• 2:14:40Speaker 02

  Where is the path forward? And I don't have an answer to that. I'm a journalist. Could there be a third party, including in this, in this upcoming presidential campaign, that could actually bring people together? That could put the divisive culture war issues to the side and focus on what people really seem to be agreeing on? Opposition to AI superintelligence, you know, Skynet? Opposition to data centers taking over our resources and communities? Opposition to flock cameras?

• 2:15:13Speaker 02

  Opposition to the special relationship with Israel, which is driving us to war and destroying our economy? Support for like reforms? Do you think that's possible in America anymore?

• 2:15:25Tucker Carlson?

  I haven't the faintest idea. I hope so. I hope so. But I do, I do think, um, it'd be tough with the current system. I do think. But I don't know. We'll find out. It's mid-September. We've got the midterm elections, the first Tuesday in November, and I think it'll be a much clearer picture after that.

• 2:15:47Tucker Carlson?

  I will be reading you as I always do, and I'm just grateful you spent all this time here. Max Blumenthal.

• 2:15:54Speaker 02

  Great seeing you.

• 2:15:55Tucker Carlson?

  And good luck, man.

• 2:15:57Tucker Carlson?

  They wanna hurt you, but I'm, I'm thankful for you.

• 2:16:00Speaker 02

  Same to you.

• 2:16:00Tucker Carlson?

  Thank you.