Pod Insights PBD Podcast Jair Bolsonaro’s Prediction Comes True! Ex-President Ordered To Stand Trial In Brazilian Coup Plot About this episode Patrick Bet-David sits down with Jair Bolsonaro for his most revealing conversation yet.
Bolsonaro exposes Lula, Alexandre de Moraes, and Brazil’s corrupt Supreme Court, revealing shocking details about the 2022 Brazilian election, Deep State interference, and censorship tactics used to silence opposition.
He also discusses the CIA’s alleged role in Brazil’s 2022 election, China’s growing influence, and his own political persecution, warning that he could be arrested for speaking the truth.
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ABOUT US:
Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
Transcript 27,782 words · 12 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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1:06 Patrick Bet-David? To most Americans, when they think about you, they compare you to President Trump. Both of you are very loud. Both of you are very strong.
1:14 Speaker 04 We have one more thing in common. I was stabbed and he was shot.
1:20 Speaker 04 The deep state works to remove opponents from the left. And I am here in Brazil at the moment, the only right wing leader, just as Trump is in the United States.
1:36 Patrick Bet-David? If in the US, the establishment, the left could silence Trump to not be able to run in 2024, they would have done exactly the same thing they did to you.
1:47 Speaker 04 Our Supreme Court here is completely politicized. If Mother Teresa of Calcutta were to take an interest in most of them, she would be convicted by our Supreme Court.
1:58 Patrick Bet-David? Do you believe President Biden and maybe even the CIA, he was involved in making sure you lost and Lula got back in?
2:05 Speaker 04 I was trying everything. They couldn't convict me for anything. So now they've made up a story about a coup in Brazil. We condemned the destruction, the invasion. We never did that. But it was something planned and designed by the left.
2:21 Speaker 04 My non-candidacy is a denial of our democracy. We have a video of him saying that and it couldn't be shown. In other words, we couldn't show anything from the other side. On this side, they accuse me of everything. Xenophobic, homicidal, pedophilic, everything. If I say what I know, hours after you put this on air, I will be arrested.
2:44 Patrick Bet-David? Is it fair to say that China would rather have Lula as a president than you?
2:48 Speaker 04 Yes, yes, completely submissive.
2:51 Patrick Bet-David? The corruption in Brazil. He said, "If Jesus came to Brazil, even he would need to make an alliance with Judas." Yeah, that's normal in Brazil. We've always done that. The reason why whistleblowers afraid of come out because they're worried what the morass will do to them?
3:06 Speaker 04 Forget the hacker, look at me.
3:13 Speaker 04 What happened to me? The truth will come at the right time.
3:20 Patrick Bet-David? You're certain of that?
3:21 Speaker 04 Absolutely. I'm the one who made the people
3:26 Speaker 04 start believing in their country again.
3:45 Patrick Bet-David? I am currently in the capital of Brazil. We just got done doing a three-hour interview with former President Jair Bolsonaro. Incredible interview. We are at the hotel, The Royal Tulip, which is a place that President Xi from China was here just two and a half months ago. Castro stayed here, Chavez stayed here, Maduro, Lula, President Biden, Clinton, many people have stayed at the hotel. This property. And if you're watching this video, it's because the footage has made it out and passed the customs. When we were coming down here to conduct this interview, we were given a lot of different briefing. We had to drive around in a armored truck. We came here with a team of nine, low-key, not telling anybody about the fact that we're here,
4:28 Patrick Bet-David? because they were sharing with us the fact that they don't want this interview to be done specifically. In a US outlet, this is the first time ever where the former president is doing a three-hour interview with a outlet that's coming from the States. There are many people, starting with Lula, Alexandre de Moraes, Globo, and many other people that do not want this interview to be done, and a lot was covered. Let me put it to you this way. If you're Brazilian, you're going to get very emotional. There's a moment where I ask him about your country, because the last few days we've been here, we've gone to the house. We went to Congress. They actually showed us the place. We've gone to many different places to see the history of this city, the fact that communists built this thing many, many years ago with the intentions of knowing everything had to be
5:13 Patrick Bet-David? very identical, not exciting to be around, just very simple, and away from everyone that if they ever wanted to revolt, if the people ever wanted to come against the government, it's so far away that nobody could do it. This is not somewhere where there's a lot of things happening here. This is not like Rio or Sao Paulo. While we're walking around going all over the place, we've been here for a few days. I'm asking people, who are your heroes in Brazil? Tell me your heroes, and I'm hearing the list of names, but it's typically Pele, Artensena, and Bolsonaro. When I'm sharing this with him, his answer, you have to watch this answer. It's unbelievable.
5:53 Patrick Bet-David? Let me put it to you this way. My translator is translating to me what he's saying. He's crying. I'm listening to him crying, his voice is cracking. There's a guy in the room, Humberto, who's Chilean, who understands the language. He's emotional, but there's another guy named Rob, whom you know if you watch our show. He's in tears. He doesn't even speak the language. Because you felt his energy, his fire, on what he was trying to portray to the people out there that are in Brazil, the people he loves. At the same time, I think Americans, he had a direct message in a very respectful way for his admiration for President Trump and what's going on in the States today. There's a clip I play of Mike Benz, where he's talking about how USAID
6:37 Patrick Bet-David? had their hands funding certain organizations here to prevent Bolsonaro from winning in 2022, where there's a connection of possibly CIA, you know, Biden, to the 2022 election. You have to watch it for yourself. And then as we're going through this, a lot, corruption in Brazil, discussed, economy. I emphasize a lot on small business owners, but how much they pay, how tough it is. He explained how the people who are paying, they can't pay because they don't have the money. And the people that are making, it's not enough for them to have a good life with all the approval rating today for Lula, being the lowest it's ever been, 24%. Again, there's a lot. But one of the things we ended up with, I met with an insider, who told me certain things that happened in 2018
7:22 Patrick Bet-David? with a hacker who was able to tap in to the election to possibly flip some votes to Hadad, who was running at that time against Bolsonaro, and possibly the Workers' Party involvement with it. There was a very direct challenge and message to the hacker and some that are involved directly that have access to this information that Alexandre de Morais, I believe, closed the files August 5th of 2021, if I'm not mistaken. You're gonna wanna watch that part. That's probably only directed to 30 of you that could be whistleblowers or the hacker to come out. Anyways, I conducted the interview and I can't wait to watch the interview again myself.
8:06 Patrick Bet-David? You're an American, you want to see the people in Brazil be free, or anybody around the world, or if you're from Brazil, watch this and share it with everybody you know. And at the end of the interview, he gave me a coin that apparently is only given to five other people. And on the coin, I think the only people that speak Portuguese will understand this. It's called the three I's. It says, "Inrojivel", "Inrochavel", and the last one, which is the legendary one, "Incomivel". If you know him, you know about this coin, the three I's. If you don't, don't Google it, you may be offended. Having said that, enjoy this interview with former President of Brazil Jair Bolsonaro.
9:14 Patrick Bet-David? President Bolsonaro, thank you for making the time. It's great to be here with you.
9:20 Patrick Bet-David? We've been wanting to do this for a while. We understand the politics in Brazil right now is a little bit intense, to say the least, with everything that's going on. And with you not having the opportunity to share everything that you're thinking about, so hopefully in this conversation, us and the rest of the world and your people will get to hear it from you directly. I have a lot of topics I want to go through here with you. Having said that, to most Americans, when they think about you, they compare you to President Trump for a few different reasons. One, both of you are very loud. Both of you are not afraid of being controversial. Both of you are very strong. Both of you have five kids. Both of you have been married three times.
10:05 Patrick Bet-David? First marriage, three kids, second one, third one. Both of you... Ran as somebody that nobody thought was going to win. President Trump won in 2016. You won in 2018, right? And then in 2020, President Biden wins. A lot of controversy in the States. For you, 2022, Lula wins. A lot of controversy in the States. 2024, President Trump wins. He's a big supporter of you. Your election is not happening until 2026. What is the likelihood of you being able to run in 2026?
10:42 Speaker 04 We have one more thing in common. I was stabbed and he was shot. What should I expect from Trump? As president and he too, for two years together, we had an excellent relationship. I always knew my place. The US GDP is 14 times larger than ours. So obviously, my aspirations were much smaller. And I've always talked to him about Brazil's potential. We competed in some things like, for example, in the coals and others not at all. And they could do excellent north-south trade. It would greatly strengthen, in my opinion, the democratic world.
11:23 Speaker 04 So based on that, I would say we had a great relationship. Back there, in his last year, he had a problem with corn ethanol and I had steel here in Brazil. And we understood each other quickly. And we solved the respective issues. We had similar dreams for the future. As you argued with me a lot about the Venezuela issue, we did not proceed because it was not reread. And also, economic issues, for example, he helped us with many things like Brazil became a great ally country, former NATO member, interest of the armed forces. I exempted the Americans from a visa to come to Brazil as a tourist.
12:07 Speaker 04 He suspended the embargo on the meat coming from Brazil. That is, we would have started an excellent relationship if he had been re-elected. I am sure the same thing would happen to me in Brazil.
12:20 Patrick Bet-David? Very interesting to say that. I mean, we can go through, obviously, for you, your background. You came more from the military side. You were in the military. You became a captain, then you went and became a, in Congress for 27 years. I think the last four years, you and your son Eduardo were also serving at the same time, which must have been interesting. And then you got into politics. But the question I have for you now, in 2026, okay? As of right now, the big difference between the Brazilian situation that you're in than the one he was in. If in America, they had the ability for Supreme Court to not allow the president to be on the battle in Colorado or many other states, they tried.
13:03 Patrick Bet-David? They couldn't because in the U.S., you know, conservatives had the Supreme Court 5 to 4, or 6 to 3, because the president flipped three seats, right? In the constitution that we have with the Supreme Court. Here, you guys have 11 Supreme Court justices, of which the 11, two of them you appointed that are conservative. And the rest, I think four is from center, another four is from liberal party, with one of them being also considered conservative, which is Zanin, not, yes, Cristiano Zanin, who got in, but you know, he's center conservative, maybe not as conservative as you are.
13:45 Patrick Bet-David? Do you think the role of you not having control of the Supreme Court worked against you in the 2022 election?
13:53 Speaker 00 This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.
14:23 Speaker 01 Sam's Club is the club for every holiday club. Guess who's joining the club this season? Walmart Plus. Yep, Sam's Club Plus membership now comes with Walmart Plus at no extra cost. Two memberships, one great price. Just 120 bucks a year can save you time and over $700. Want to get in on the membership duo of the century? Visit sam'sclub.com. Come join us. Sam's Club.
14:59 Speaker 04 First, let me add to your first question. What do I expect from Trump and the American government? The same goes for Venezuela. Serious democracies around the world did not accept the result of Venezuela. Considering that Maduro did not present the election minutes. What I hope will happen in Brazil, just to be acknowledged. Elected. The one who has competed with the process. Where all of the votes can be audited. And have their count made public. Our situation here, it's a big black box. And also not to be accepted.
15:43 Speaker 04 Electing someone whose opposition have been silenced, excluded. For minor issues, for instance, in my case, not being able to be eligible. In other words, the system here. The deep state works to remove the opponents. From Lula or the left, and I am here in Brazil at the moment, the only right-wing leader. Like Trump in the United States. I hope this really comes to happen here. From the heads of state from all around the world, not recognizing an election conducted this way. The issue of the Supreme Federal Court
16:27 Speaker 04 becomes a problem in Brazil, which is where most of the ministers constantly express themselves publicly to the press, give their opinions. They even go into the Brazilian parliament to do what they want and do not want, and publicly threaten some ministers. If such a proposal goes forward, then we shall consider it unconstitutional. That's the problem we have. In my specific case,
16:57 Speaker 04 I am waiting. This last process that I am responding to, they tried every way to convict me of something and failed. Now they have invented a story of a coup in Brazil. This is a process that will drag on. I can, at the last moment, next year, register my application. By then, I will definitely be there, gathering crowds in Brazil, just like I always did while president, while as a candidate back then and now, even for two years, too. What power do I have to try to persuade the Supreme Court from the idea of removing myself from the political dispute? What do I understand? My non-candidacy is a denial of our democracy? The concept of ineligibility does not exist in the United States.
17:42 Speaker 04 They made it up here. I don't have any convictions, not even corruption allegations, nothing. And they keep wanting to make me ineligible, to make me... Because I met with ambassadors with a private policy of mine to meet with ambassadors, where I showed here the inquiry, number 1,361, highlighting the inconsistencies of our electoral system, a document produced by the Supreme Electoral Court itself. Because of this, one of the disqualifications. And this investigation, believe it, Minister Alexandre Morais. It was a blatant inquiry. Everyone could see it. He classified it as confidential, meaning a secret inquiry. Regarding that inquiry, the whole problem
18:27 Speaker 04 we are experiencing here in Brazil right now, the minister would just have to suspend, lift the secrecy of this inquiry, that I believe everything will be resolved here concerning the electronic voting machines and the last elections.
18:39 Patrick Bet-David? I agree, but the point I'm trying to make here is the fact that if, in the U.S., the establishment... And the the the left could silence Trump to not be able to run in 2024. They would have done exactly the same thing they did to you. Exactly the same thing. The only reason they couldn't is because he had control Supreme Court, where they couldn't go after him. If you were to break down the difference, so for some of us that maybe we don't know the difference. What is the difference in your constitution versus ours? And what's the difference in your Supreme Court than ours?
19:14 Speaker 04 Our Supreme Court here is totally politicized. America, on the other hand, I have never seen a minister being interviewed. The member of the Supreme Court giving an interview is not participating. And most of them there were labeled as conservatives. So it's a a result that is always aimed at the interests of the people. Here, for example, how it should be in the United States. The decision is made by the parliament and the president. And the judiciary stays away. It only gets involved to settle some specific issues. In Brazil, it is completely different. The judiciary there is always ahead of the decisions.
19:56 Speaker 04 For example, I fight for printed voting, similar to what is in Venezuela now, since 2012. Because I want an additional security barrier during the election period. In Brazil, even though the constitution provides for a public vote count, it is not done. The counting is done inside a secret room of the Supreme Electoral Court. And you might ask, how did you get elected in 2018? The answer is in that secret inquiry of November 2018, one week after my election. And there it is, the proof.
20:39 Speaker 04 Proof of the vulnerabilities of the Superior Electoral Court. Although here in Brazil, already in the 2018 elections, aside from this problem, I was actively involved in the Superior Electoral Court, which has seven ministers. Three from the Supreme Federal Court, all three of them, indicated by the left. They worked actively against my reelection. For example, I couldn't show images from Lula back there with Chavez, with Maduro back there with Fidel Castro, with Daniel Ortega, with Hamadinejad, Lula defending Iran's nuclear program so that it could enrich uranium above 20% to create an atomic bomb.
21:23 Speaker 04 I couldn't show images of September 7th. I became ineligible on September 7th, Brazil's Independence Day, the other ineligibility. The parade is over. I handed over my session, left. Talked to the people, got on a sound truck and gave the speech. That, the Supreme Electoral Court of Alexandre Morais says that I was abusing economic power. Where I didn't spend a cent, the sound car belonged to the Brazilian pastor named Silas Malafaya. That is to say, on Independence Day, I am punished with ineligibility. In addition to the meeting with ambassadors, another ineligibility and a fine. In other words, everything here was intensified and made more difficult for me.
22:05 Speaker 04 I couldn't, for example, say that Lula was in favor of abortion, that he was in favor. Sympathetic to cellphone thieves because they just wanted to have a beer. We have a video of him saying that, and it couldn't be shown. In other words, we couldn't show anything from the other side. On this side, they accused me of everything. Of being xenophobic, of homicide, of pedophilia. I mean, everything. They even accused me of trying to kill a city councilwoman in Rio in 2018. And what did they discover before the elections? That the killer was someone else. I had nothing to do with it, just the accused, the killer, lived in my condominium of 150 houses. Since he lived there, I was obviously behind that murder.
22:49 Speaker 04 They accused me of everything you can imagine, believe me. Even that mini submarine that collapsed at the bottom of the sea, I was also mentioned as having some involvement, because one of my ministers, the Minister of Mines and Energy, our only astronaut, I had a contract with that company, because he studies from zero gravity to maximum gravity, and because of that, it had something to do with me. They even accused me of harassing a whale in Brazil. I am the only Brazilian citizen who have ever been sued for harassing a whale. In other words, the accusations here are varied, such as receiving a gift from Saudi Arabia, like, for example, vaccination card scam.
23:33 Speaker 04 Everything you can imagine, all they have left is the figure of a coup, because it's something that didn't happen. Just the other day, chatting with a colleague from Israel, I've made friends all over the world. He said, "What is this scam that the Mossad did not know about?" In other words, Brazil is what you see now, and now, the Supreme Court. I apologize with all the respect I must have for the Supreme Court, but if Mother Teresa of Calcutta were interested in most of them, she would be convicted by our Supreme Court.
24:01 Patrick Bet-David? So then, is that fair to say that the Supreme Court is the most powerful body in all of Brazil? Like, they run the show?
24:11 Speaker 04 Yes. Yes, yes, he has the power of the pen. Prison. As we have, for example, a congressman while being a congressman. He made an offensive comment to the Supreme Federal Court, I agree. But it is in our constitution that the deputy, he is untouchable, right? He is unreachable by any of your words, opinions, or votes. But even so, while serving as a federal deputy, he was sentenced to almost nine years in prison. He is still in jail today. I granted the amnesty to this congressman, the pardon, similar to the seasonal ones. As Trump has done, "Here to the people from the Capitol." Among other things, I granted amnesty.
24:56 Speaker 04 While I was president, it was valid. When I left presidency, the Supreme Federal Court overturned that amnesty. In other words, it's a Supreme Court that is above good and evil.
25:09 Patrick Bet-David? Okay, so then if we look at that, then here's what I'm trying to find out is how are you planning on going against the Supreme Court? Because this is the numbers we pulled up just a few minutes ago. This morning, I'm looking at the Supreme Court to see what the age is. In Brazil, at 75, they are, it's almost a forced retirement in Brazil if you're a Supreme Court Justice. So here's the names that I have. Luiz Roberto Barroso, he was appointed by Dilma, he's on the left. Edson Fachin is 67 years old. Luiz is 66 years old, so they both have 10 more years left roughly. Edson is by Dilma, left. Carmen Lucia, 70 years old, Lula, left.
25:49 Patrick Bet-David? Cristiano Zanin, 49 years old, central conservative, but appointed by Lula. Gilmar Mendes, 69 years old, and appointed by President Cardoso, left. Cassio Nunes Marques, appointed by you, 52 years old. Andrei Mendonca, your side, 52 years old, young, he's got 23 more years left. Alexandre de Moraes, 56 years old, from the left, Temer. Dias Tofoli, 57 years old, left. Luiz Fuchs, 71 years old, Dilma, left.
26:30 Patrick Bet-David? Flavio Dino, just recently, he was a former communist and he came out of the Communist Party to join the Socialist Party. He confessed to being a communist, he's on the left, and he's only 56 years old. They're gonna be around for a long time for it to flip the other way. What's your strategy, and maybe the Conservative Party's strategy, to fight against these guys?
26:56 Speaker 04 What some people say, I have no doubt that if I become eligible, I am president, right? An alternative, someone might have.
27:09 Speaker 04 It needs to be discussed. It's the increase of the number of ministers. We are not going to hunt anyone. Unless, obviously, that with a super, that with a strong senate, due to some failure. This process exists. From my side, there is no intention to pursue any minister or go after any minister. I fight here for a strong senate that's independent. To be able to show everyone else in Brazil that regarding what concerns them and what is in the constitution, if they make a mistake, they will face a lawsuit there. So much so that, what have I been saying? On some TVs, radio, and my travels around Brazil.
27:54 Speaker 04 Give me 50% of the representatives and 50% of the senators in 2026. So I'll change Brazil. There's no way you can change. Nobody wants to change through acts of violence, as I was accused. Even without any violence, nothing concrete against me. They accuse me. I wanted to stage a coup in 2022 and 2023. The capital there, January 8th here, are coupist. That doesn't make sense. And so this is how it is. Now, even so, a poll just came out on the 18th of this month. It's from February. Where I am, 5 points ahead of Lula. And more people were tested with Lula for the second round.
28:36 Speaker 04 Just one other person nowadays would win against Lula, and she's my wife. She does not have a political role in Brazil. She is a discreet person. Christian, who took on the role of the female liberal party. And she travels around Brazil talking to women. So she has this potential because of her ability to express herself. Given the surname, obviously, that helps. At the moment, she could beat Lula too. They can even make me ineligible. But I have other tricks up my sleeve that will appear as time goes on for us to reach the presidency of the republic. I'm sure this has everything it takes to succeed, especially because, unfortunately, through the suffering of the people,
29:21 Speaker 04 since the Brazilian economy is becoming a disaster, they will not vote for the left or the Workers' Party anymore.
29:28 Patrick Bet-David? Yeah, so to me, I think for you, you have a bigger challenge to overcome than in the States. Because in the States, again, President Trump had Supreme Court because he flipped three seats, which was very big, never had been done in the history of America. That was a very, very big deal. And the only reason I'm sharing this with you is for case study. Like, you know, what's happening with him, it's happening with you to see the case study. In-house, in America, House of Representative Congress, we have 435. You guys have 513. We have 100 Senate seats, you have 81. The House here, based on the folks I'm talking to the last couple of days while we're in Brazil,
30:12 Patrick Bet-David? roughly 110 to 130 in House are on your side. 110 to 130 are on your side. On the Senate side, it's only 22. So if you only have 22 Senate out of 81, it's roughly a quarter. If you only have 110 on Second Amendment, 130 on maybe other conservative issues out of 513. So Supreme Court is 2 out of 11. Senate is 22 out of 81. House is, let's say, 130 out of 513. Like, with everything being against you, Senate, House, and Supreme Court, how do you, in a situation like this,
30:57 Patrick Bet-David? the strategy has to be, maybe a different kind of a strategy, to be able to win. And the reason why I'm asking this question is, you know, in America, you said we have two political parties, right, Mr. President? Here, we have three, but it's really two political parties. You have a lot more. Is it gonna require you to try to find a way to get along with some of the other parties to wanna support you in 2026? What would be some of the ways you would go around this challenge?
31:25 Speaker 04 Firstly, the doctors who operated on me in 2018 didn't believe I would survive.
31:32 Speaker 04 Also, the parliamentarians. During the campaign, no one believed that I could be elected as president in 2018. I spent less than $1 million. I repeat, $1 million. That's unbelievable. The price of a house in Florida, approximately. And we did, and I did something that no one expected I would do. I chose my ministers. I chose the state-owned CEOs. The bank directors were not political appointees. So, thanks to that, we managed to outperform in the economy. The economy is what keeps or brings down a president. I stayed alive. We faced the issue of COVID there.
32:15 Speaker 04 I dare say I haven't missed a single one of my observations about COVID. Maybe I was the only head of state in the world who didn't take the vaccine. And also, another problem that affected the whole world was the Russia and Ukraine war. Our mandate ended in 2022 with a surplus in budgetary matters. So, these are true miracles, the presidency. Because I invited the right people, and they accepted. Today, the people miss my ministers. And they don't know the ministers of the current government because they have no qualifications whatsoever. On the contrary, what they follow is an agenda.
32:58 Speaker 04 So, that was a big challenge back then, my life and the election. Today, we have a lot of problems ahead. Why? The opposition to me from the judiciary and a large part of the media as well.
33:15 Speaker 04 I ended the harmony where everyone here got along and cooperated. I put Brazil on the right track. Take the port of Santos, for example. I inherited with an annual debt of 500 million Hais.
33:29 Speaker 04 That's roughly 80 million US dollars. And I hand it over with 80 million dollars in losses. And all the state-owned companies. When you take the Santos Harbor, the difference is 1 billion hey-ice. That's roughly 140 million dollars. Somebody who used to take this money stopped liking me, started to hit me, to attack me, to persecute me, to slander, to make fake news. We overcame all those obstacles. The most important force that exists in Brazil is not the parliament, the presidency, or the Supreme Federal Court. I understand. That is the popular force. I'll go back now. I finished last year. I traveled to almost 200 cities in Brazil.
34:12 Speaker 04 And my reception was fantastic. As I said, unfortunately, the people are suffering due to economic mistakes, for misappropriation of resources by Lula. More and more, sections of the population that were against me are coming back to be on my side. Then the great strength I'll have, it will be the people. So I insist, what can I expect from the world like Trump's? I hope, I say it again, that he only recognizes elections that had a safe criteria, where auditable, and where the opposition, in my case, don't leave it aside, don't ignore it, through political processes, as I am suffering at the moment in Brazil.
34:55 Patrick Bet-David? That makes sense. I guess my question for you would be from somebody that, again, watching what Trump did from the way he campaigned in 2016, and he got in. Similar to you, you were getting 7 seconds of airtime. In Brazil, they give candidates time. Mainstream media in Brazil, they gave you only 7 seconds in the morning, 7 seconds in the evening, Monday through Saturday. But your opponent, Hadad, was getting 12 minutes in the morning, 12 minutes in the afternoon. And you were still able to win by, you know, with only a million dollars because the people wanted you, right? But that was you in 2018. President Trump wins in 2016 against Hillary Clinton.
35:39 Patrick Bet-David? Less money, she had double the money, she had mainstream media, she had everybody. All the publications, everybody favored her, not him. 2020, COVID happens, Biden gets in, 2022, Lula comes in. Trump comes in in 2024, but you've seen how he's gone against his enemies, okay? You've seen how he's attacked everybody, or what different approach has he taken? What have you personally witnessed that's different from Trump in 2016, 2020, 2024? That maybe you could apply in the way you're moving forward for 2026?
36:16 Speaker 04 First, the American judicial system is different from ours. They don't have political involvement in the decisions. Take a look at Trump, he has his point. Many admire him. There you can donate openly to the party. It's now forbidden here. During campaigns, you can donate, but people are afraid to donate to me. I do not accept donations under the table.
36:44 Speaker 04 But I understand that our current proposal, taking into account how Brazil is being governed. More and more, we will have people by our side. For example, the Christian audience equals one-third of the Brazilian population. Were with me for the most part. Now it is even more so, because they make the necessary comparisons. Here in Brazil, we even suspect, right? I will give you the image, you post it, if that's possible. Showing my travels around Brazil. Many sectors of society, like agribusiness, which make up one-third of Brazil's GDP, come from the countryside. These people fully supported me.
37:28 Speaker 04 Christians, more than 80% are with me. Integrating the armed forces, not explicitly, but the crowd's vibe, they sure like me. Security forces, military police, civilian police, to the northeast. A construction project was stalled for 10 years, we delivered water to the northeast. No corruption. We invested a lot here in infrastructure with limited resources, but without any misappropriation. Through my minister, Tarcísio de Freitas, who currently, given his work as a minister... He is from Rio de Janeiro, but was elected governor of the state of São Paulo, and he's doing very well there. Like other people, we have been making leaders across Brazil. I know several of our candidates.
38:14 Speaker 04 You take Nicolas Ferreira, Gustavo Geyer, Eduardo Bolsonaro. You can take Sanderson. Suco in Rio Grande do Sul. You take Andre in Fortaleza. Alberto for the state of Amazonas and many more across Brazil of young people. More than 100 active young people. We elected the city councillors last year. You will not find anyone on the left with that ability to engage and communicate with the people. I've always been careful to separate what is good and what was not very good. I kept it to myself and we helped to form these leaderships. Above all of that, I'm sure that this campaign of 2026
38:57 Speaker 04 will be much better than the one in 18 back then and the one in 22, that we are convinced that something happened. That's why I always say, you know, I hope the Supreme Electoral Court removes the secrecy of inquiry 1361 from November 2018. Let's put an end to any doubts about the ballot boxes. Well, as I already told you, I'll say it again. The suspension exists for much of the Brazilian operation. If you only suspect, what does the press say here? That you are attacking the ballot box without evidence. But the press itself is afraid to ask the Superior Electoral Court for an investigation that in three pages decides what happened here
39:41 Speaker 04 and clear it up in the year 2022 and also in 18. Well, after all that, I have to trust my country. December 30, 1922. At the end of my term, I went to the United States. I went as the president of the republic. And I stayed there for three months.
39:59 Speaker 04 I could, I had the right to have stayed there longer. But I decided to return, taking all possible risks. Nowadays, a large part of the population is convinced, is certain, if I had stayed in Brazil, on January 8th, when there was that invasion here in, in the Three Branches Plaza, I would have been arrested that same night and would still be in jail today. Because the next day, Lula, who always sided with the dictators and supports Hamas, supports Hezbollah, posing as a great democrat, who has made that... That January 8th meant to be proof that I wanted to overthrow the government,
40:44 Speaker 04 that I wanted to carry out a coup d'etat, right there at Disney, with Donald Duck and Mickey by my side. And without money and without, without me being organized with any authority or entity in Brazil. They thought back then that the thing in January was proof that I wanted to overthrow the system in Brazil. That's why they kept 1,500 people in prison for months. And now they are being sentenced to up to 17 years in prison. There is no coup. A coup happens to a person, an authority, not on buildings, like it was done here. And we condemn the destruction and invasion. We never did that. But it was something planned and designed by the left. I'm gonna say a word and you ask me.
41:25 Speaker 04 It's a message. For a Brazilian authority, light prison. This authority knows what I'm talking about. So that he starts worrying, what do I want? I want to solve the problems. It's not my problem. I want to free my country from a dictatorship. That all the time, not just some of the Supreme Federal Court, but the Lula government itself, wants through a project to censor the social media here in Brazil. I have not taken any measures against social media or traditional media that have always attacked me. I was the example here of freedom of speech in our country, completely different from Lula. And that some, especially Alexandre Morais, wants,
42:08 Speaker 04 inside the Supreme Federal Court, they are the truth. It would even be redundant. What is fake news or misinformation in Brazil? It's anything that those few ministers of the Federal Supreme Court do not want, or think that is, it's an attack on them.
42:28 Patrick Bet-David? You know, while you're saying that, it's making me think about what Mike Benz. Mike Benz used to be a former Deputy Assistant Secretary. He was a former US Department of State guy. And in a recent interview, while they're talking about USAID, USAID, and the amount of money NGOs were putting in, one of the comments Mike Benz makes is what happened in Brazil in 2022. He claims that the money, matter of fact, I want you to, I want to get a reaction on this. Rob, if you want to play this clip, go for it.
43:00 Speaker 06 Is that populism is an attack on democracy. They say this openly in USAID meetings. They say this openly in USAID documents. I published this a year and a half ago. The USAID disinformation primer published the first month of Biden's term in office, saying that the purpose of their disinformation programs was to eliminate populist subject matter expertise on the internet. Because populist news sites undermine USAID programming by undermining public faith and confidence in democratic institutions. Because, don't you know, USAID spends billions of dollars to control the media every year.
43:43 Speaker 06 All the major media outlets in Ukraine are funded by USAID, like the Kiev Independent. All of the major news outlets in Western Hemisphere or in many parts of Africa and Central Asia, it does what the CIA used to do. Everyone remembers Operation Mockingbird, but guess what? That's just called USAID Media Sustainability and Media Assistance. Okay? That's all that is. And when populist waves swept the world in the US in 2016 with Trump and with what happened all over Europe with Marine Le Pen and Matteo Salvini and Nigel Farage, USAID declared censorship holy war against every single populist group, including Bolsonaro.
44:27 Speaker 06 Steve, I'm telling you right now, if USAID did not exist... Bolsonaro would still be the president of Brazil and Brazil would still have a free and open internet. It was USAID that spent tens of millions of dollars of American taxpayer money funding the push to get anti-misinformation bills passed in the parliament there. Funding the legal advocates who pushed the censorship court there, the TSE, to crack down on Bolsonaro tweets and WhatsApp and Telegram messages. They built a censorship octopus in Brazil and it was built entirely on USAID because USAID declared Bolsonaro a populist, Trump of the tropics, and then set up this operation
45:10 Speaker 06 to control the information ecosystem there. One of the USAID grantees even said on a public call that the purpose was to eliminate the international exchange of ideas between the Trump movement and the Bolsonaro movement. That's what USAID does. They kill domestic populism because it gets in the way of their foreign policy goals.
45:30 Patrick Bet-David? So, when you hear him saying that, do you believe President Biden and maybe even the CIA or some of the NGOs there, like maybe even USAID was involved in making sure you lost and Lula got back in?
45:45 Speaker 04 I feel trust in Mike Benz. I feel I can trust him saying that because he is from the inside of, back then, the Trump administration and the Biden administration too, here in Brazil. The Superior Electoral Court, I don't know how, gathered a huge amount of influencers that worked against me on misinformation. They called me a pedophile. They've called me a genocidist, racist. Called me a liar, also Nazi.
46:32 Speaker 04 A huge amount of work was done. And the Superior Electoral Court even did something that I've never seen before. They ran a campaign so that those aged 16 and 17 could also vote. This age group is not obliged to vote. So they worked to get them to register to vote, and it resulted in over 4 million young people. And at this age, 3/4, 75%, vote for the left. So then only there, Lula received 3 million votes, I got 1 million, 2 million votes. They succeeded with that work alone. The Electoral Court worked in this area. In other words, that's more than the difference. In the 2022 elections, it's just different.
47:16 Speaker 04 Adding up with the rest, what happened with the bans? For me, doing anything during elections, adding up all the rest, as I told you, I could not show Lula that Brazil is a very conservative country. It is a country of Christians. Here, more than 70% of the people are against abortion. And Lula, I had a video of him supporting abortion. Here, violence is very high in Brazil. People are killed for any reason. And Lula encouraged cellphone theft as if, as if these people were poor souls who wanted to steal a phone to have a little beer. He actually said that. I wanted to show the image of Lula, for example.
47:59 Speaker 04 Back then, saying that the war of Russia with Ukraine could be solved. Can you believe it? Having some beers. This, this, this guy who is there, this guy who is there. It was the Biden administration, in my view, helped to put him there. Helped get out of jail, who was sentenced in three courts. And then they canceled it, all the processes. Because even outside of prison, he had three lawsuits. And according to the Clean Record Act, anyone who was convicted in the appellate court could not run in the elections. In other words, the Clean Record Act means nothing to the Workers' Party.
48:41 Speaker 04 And also for those from the Supreme Court, who helped Lula to get there. Here, in my understanding, he was taken out of jail and put in the presidency. Why Lula? Because he would be the only name. We understand that he actually could be.
48:57 Speaker 04 Forced upon the population as the winner, no other name. So work was done in this direction. No one denies it. Maybe. I say maybe because I have no evidence with the money from USAID.
49:11 Speaker 04 This agency has $50 billion per year to invest worldwide, largely under the guise of social projects like even hunger, inequality, among other things. But also, as I saw, I saw released in the American press, it was even used for terrorism, was used to interfere in policies throughout the world. And we're waiting. I believe that it will happen according to the information we know that the money came here to Brazil, to the Superior Electoral Court, or not. But it came to Brazil to influence the elections. I think Mike Benz is right. If it weren't for USAID, I would be the elected president in 2022.
49:56 Patrick Bet-David? So then that means somebody that can help is if, let's say, Pete Hexet or Tulsi Gabbard or John Ratcliffe, new CIA. You know how Doge is investigating USID? They're investigating now possibly Pentagon. They're investigating everyone. If they were to investigate to see that communication took place to help making sure you lost and that became public, say if the US reported on the communication that they were involved in that. If they were, how would Brazilians react to that? If they found out
50:41 Patrick Bet-David? that there was an actual attempt to make sure you lost in 2022?
50:49 Speaker 04 It would be, that would be fantastic. Once the resources were checked to help Lula getting elected and this information becoming public, more and more the people will be on our side. We would have a way to demand, if this happens, the annulment of the elections. Right now, all I have is the people on my side. God, which is more important. And by coincidence, the advantage of Trump, of having a special assistant, Elon Musk, to go and drag the swamp,
51:32 Speaker 04 really dive in, in the deep state, which we call the system here, so that all this rot comes to the surface. Because I also understand that the election of anyone else was not in the interest of the Biden administration. They were interested in the puppet, that is Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, who is there ruining our Brazil. Some even doubt if he will hold on until next year. If there is a way for Brazil to get out of this swamp that keeps sinking deeper, especially on the economic issue, what I would like is that the American government would do what was done with Venezuela.
52:16 Speaker 04 It is very important to only accept the election, recognize someone as elected in a clean, transparent, and auditable electoral system. And the opposition should not be excluded by ineligible processes or even convictions by courts that everyone knows have a leftist bias here in Brazil, unfortunately.
52:40 Patrick Bet-David? Why would President Trump be interested in that information being public? Meaning, how does he, you know, President Trump right now has a lot of different issues he's dealing with. And he's the hardest working man in the world right now. The amount of executive orders, everything he's doing, no one's working harder than him anywhere around the world. His life is public, everybody sees it. Why should Brazil, out of all the things that they're dealing with, be a top priority to investigate and kind of find out what happened here in 2022?
53:14 Speaker 04 The American politic itself. In Brazil, almost all the administrations before mine always accused Americans of being imperialists.
53:24 Speaker 04 If America really wanted to be a conqueror and gain territories, after the Second World War, they would have gained a large part of the world. And they kept absolutely nothing for themselves. Trump understands, as does a large part of the American people, that freedom of expression is the foundation of democracy. Like, I heard Vice President Vance speaking in the European Parliament. I found his position fantastic. He talked to the Europeans about what the United States is and the lengths they went to continue helping, as long as the Europeans understand that this help really
54:01 Speaker 04 matches what part of the European population wants. Because if the Americans, the United States, leaves NATO, Europe stays there. It becomes vulnerable to many things. We don't want that. It's like a game of war, a popular board game here. Forty years ago, I used to play it. Now I haven't played in a long time. You have to conquer
54:27 Speaker 04 countries and continents. Here in South America, the largest country is Brazil. If the enemy in the game of war conquers Brazil, they conquer South America. The enemy, as I see it, has already gained Venezuela. Russia is there, China is there. It's the country with the largest oil reserves in the world, and other resources too. That's why some foreign countries are interested in maintaining a foothold in Venezuela, and Brazil might completely shift to the left, just like Venezuela. Besides being a problem for us, it is a problem for the world. If a quarter of Venezuela leaves, okay. Now, if a quarter of Brazil leaves, it would be 50 million people who would go somewhere or try to enter somewhere.
55:11 Speaker 04 It is a serious problem for the whole world. I thank God for Trump winning these elections because there is hope for us. I don't want to... Who am I to give opinions or demand or advise Trump? Who am I? I understand that he has a geopolitical interest that Brazil does not lean into... does not fall into communism. Although he has to... You have to worry. Lula, two or three months ago, signed 37 agreements with China. Among them... O problema do urânio. E vocês, obviamente, estão interessados nisso. Outras medidas, pressão chinesa, até pressão financeira, e também de outra forma, através da ideologia, tem acontecido no Brasil.
55:55 Speaker 04 Por exemplo, o Senado aprovou um estudo para vender terras para estrangeiros. Está passando por Congresso. Enquanto eu era presidente, eu não deixei isso avançar. Agora, com a pressão chinesa, pode avançar. Se podemos vender terras para estrangeiros, a China vai comprar o Brasil. É uma grande preocupação. O que eu disse antes sobre alinhamento militar, é o que eles estavam fazendo. Se eu fosse presidente, esse alinhamento voltaria aos Estados Unidos. É muito bom para nós. Por exemplo, hoje em dia, o tráfico de drogas vai muito por aqui no Brasil, conhecido como o Triple Fronteira. Na minha opinião, um acordo para uma base militar americana lá seria bem-vindo. Isso é uma questão de sobrevivência para nós. Porque não podemos lutar contra o crime,
56:37 Speaker 04 especialmente porque o crime organizado tem infiltrado até as instituições aqui no Brasil. Então, esse alinhamento aos Estados Unidos seria excepcional.
56:48 Speaker 04 E Trump, como eu entendo, embora tenha problemas a lidar com em todo o mundo, como a Rússia e a Ucrânia, que, na minha opinião, estão quase resolvidos, ou como o problema dos hostages em Gaza, praticamente resolvido também, entre outros. O Brasil se encontra no olho. Porque perto do Brasil, temos dez países que compartilham fronteiras com nós. Especialmente olhando para Venezuela, Argentina mais para o sul, que... Em termos de economia e recursos naturais, é importante para o mundo inteiro. Tão mesmo que a China esteja aqui também. E seria muito bom se Trump pudesse olhar aqui. E eu entendo que eu seria um excelente aliado para ele, certo? Como eu era no passado.
57:30 Patrick Bet-David? So that makes sense. Is that kind of how President Trump was aggressive with Panama? Because China was starting to have a lot of control over Panama, and Panama eventually said, "We don't want to have the amount of authority that we're giving to China." They backed off. And this could go with a couple other countries that has also spoken like that against as well, threatening with terrorists, threatening with different kind of things. One of the numbers I noticed, I saw on some of the charts we were looking at, is how many Brazilians now live in China. Brazilian citizens moved to live in China, and they got visas roughly 711,000, and it's increased by 321%.
58:15 Patrick Bet-David? Even some entrepreneurs and business owners leaving to Paraguay. We saw a number of, I think it was 175% grown in numbers there, with even numbers of 263,000 people going to Paraguay because they see more opportunity there. Are you seeing, with the current climate of the economy, a lot of folks leaving Brazil to other countries because they see better opportunities?
58:45 Speaker 04 First Panama. America built that. Thousands of people lost their lives there. And you handed it over to Panama. When Panama flirts with China, I understand that Trump is right to claim that if they want to give up control of the canal, let the priority be America and not the Chinese. So I think Trump is right. So much so, that his administration quickly backtracked on the previous agreement with China. I'm also in favor of the American immigration issue. Over there is your land. If you enter my house, what to do? It's the United States. You go there legally, it's okay. If you don't, out.
59:30 Speaker 04 If the American government doesn't want them there, they have to leave. So America does it right. Even the legal Brazilians support this. Because I was in Florida talking to people about this, and since way back then, it was discussed. Then there's the issue of China. China, um, plays silently. They already bought here. We have three Niobium mines in Brazil. Catalano in the state of Goiás already belongs to them. They want to buy Araxa, Minas Gerais. There's the third mine left, region of Cezlagoos in the Amazon. I had talked with Trumo about this area. It's an indigenous reserve, but sooner or later, this indigenous policy has to be revised here. When Trump won the elections,
1:00:16 Speaker 04 in one of his speeches, he says he was going to drill, drill, drill, that is, extract oil. Right? The willingness, including indigenous reserves, including areas under environmental protection. In Brazil, it would be the same with me. With strong numbers in Congress, say 50% of the chamber and 50% of the senate, I'd have the power to decide on indigenous reserves. If the decision was mine, I would, for example, explore Niobium in the Cezlagoos region. With whom? With a nuclear democratic country? Let's be open here. With a nuclear democratic country. The United States. I couldn't do it with Japan or South Korea, which despite having advanced technology, would not withstand external pressure
1:01:00 Speaker 04 for exploiting oil in an indigenous reserve. And I have already seen that Trump does not worry about this. He is going to explore oil in all those areas I told you about. So the alignment between Jair Bolsonaro and Trump. Trump there with a strong majority in Congress, me here also controlling the majority in the Brazilian Congress. This can happen. We would form a partnership that would make the whole world envious. And you can be sure that those countries that are considering joining the BRICS, which I know is a small group of countries. But we see it growing, right? These countries would come to our side. And this way, we would guarantee world peace. And each country would have an opportunity
1:01:45 Speaker 04 to strive for its economic development, to progress and make their country better for each of their people.
1:01:52 Patrick Bet-David? Yeah, when we're talking about China, it's one of the things you're making me think about is the way President Trump communicates with everybody. It doesn't matter who it is, he'll go visit North Korea, he'll go talk to anybody. He knows how to have that relationship. But at the same time, he doesn't want to give China the free rein to be able to go do whatever they want to do. Because they kind of want to push their weight. President Xi was here, I think November 19th, just two or three months ago. And he came to Brasilia for the G20 summit. And he hadn't visited, I think, Brazil since 2014, maybe you could correct me. What was, from what you noticed with the relationship of Xi and Lula, is there something going on there?
1:02:37 Patrick Bet-David? Is there some opportunities? Is there additional investments being made in Brazil for China to have more control in the state? What do you notice with that relationship of Lula and Xi?
1:02:49 Speaker 04 Besides uranium, in a beautiful state of Minas Gerais, there's a region called Vale de Jecuitiñonha. It's the poorest area in the state, but there is lithium there. The Brazilian government has just handed over the lithium extraction to China.
1:03:07 Speaker 04 In other words, in those agreements that we don't have access to, some members of parliament requested information because I can't. And it takes 30 or 40 days. We're about to get full copies of those agreements. Those certain things the government does enter into confidentiality, we can't access. In other words, Lula is perfectly aligned with China. So much so that Lula, not long ago, said he would like to change the standard from the American dollar to the Chinese yuan. And Trump said, "Anyone who wants to move away from the dollar standard, I will impose a 100% tariff." And then Russia itself, which was part of the BRICS.
1:03:52 Speaker 04 I think it was Leprov who said that the idea was not mine, it was Lula's. In other words, we know about the subservience. We know of the complete subordination of the Brazilian Workers' Party to the Chinese Communist Party. This is coming on fast. And we don't want that in Brazil. I don't want to have a life here for my people like the Chinese people have there. I want freedom, freedom of expression. I want to leverage this beauty that God has given us, that He gave to our people. We want to do business with the whole world. What we want is to maintain and and improve the freedom that we have left. And China is not concerned about that.
1:04:36 Speaker 04 For example, if China starts buying land in Brazil, which they can, each country can buy up to 20% of the respective municipality. Quickly, since for them there is no worker rights, which are called labor laws, right? It's a completely different work risk. Your productivity will be much higher than the neighboring farmers. In other words, they will do something similar to dumping here. They will enslave all our Brazil. And Brazil is food security for more than 1 billion people around the world. It is a strategic country. So I understand that Trump has problems to deal with all around the world. But talking specifically about Brazil,
1:05:20 Speaker 04 I'm sure that I'm sure he has a very special affection for us and doesn't want us to make a union between the Chinese Communist Party and Brazil.
1:05:32 Patrick Bet-David? Is it fair to say that China would rather have Lula as a president than you?
1:05:37 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, he's completely subservient.
1:05:40 Patrick Bet-David? Makes sense.
1:05:41 Speaker 04 I never stopped doing business with China. The agribusiness expanded globally during my administration. Everyone was happy, a lot of wealth for the farmers and everything was fine. When we left the government, one of the first things Lula started saying was that the agribusiness is fascist. In other words, nobody understands this unwarranted attack on our agribusiness. Everything that is working well in Brazil, Lula wants to take down. Now, maybe this attack on agribusiness is to make things easier. Nowadays, for example, if someone wins the lottery, they don't want to buy land. Because there is a movement of land invaders called MST that started operating again with Lula. They invade properties. Private property is no longer worth anything in Brazil,
1:06:25 Speaker 04 so the farmer is threatened all the time. This is part of it. Like the CCP, Lula plays the medium and long game. You stimulate production in the field, facilitating the sale of land to foreigners. These foreigners, let's be clear, are China.
1:06:42 Patrick Bet-David? Okay, so I have a few other questions on this. We'll come back to this, but I want to go into the economy today in Brazil. When you look at the economy today, Lula, when he was a president from 2003 to 2010, when he left, his popularity was at 80% when Lula left. Popularity at 80%, approval rating 80%, and then, obviously, Operation Car Wash. He goes away. Alexandre de Moraes goes and brings him out because they didn't have anybody on the left to promote. And he goes out there and he wins. He becomes the president. Everything's going to be great. Everything's going to be fine. Today, in December, his approval rating hit 35%. Today, it's 24%.
1:07:27 Patrick Bet-David? This is the lowest it's ever been in Brazil. So even there is videos of when he goes to the house. The house, everyone's booing him. He rarely goes to the house. Yesterday, we had a chance to go visit the house and the senate here in Brasilia. And while we went in, we're looking at the building. This is one of the examples of him walking in. Rob, if you want to play this clip.
1:07:59 Patrick Bet-David? I don't know the exact date on when this was. I think it's fair to say he's not very popular today with the voters. In a recent interview, while he's asking about prices, prices are very expensive. He originally sold a dream to everybody, saying, "We're gonna go back to the days where we can have picante and beer around the weekends. We're gonna go back to the days where you can, you know, party and have a good time and enjoy yourself and have all that stuff." Is this the clip when he said that, Rap? If you can play this clip.
1:08:29 Speaker 07 I talk about a lot of things. I talk about economics, people, I talk about everything. I'm like Mercadante, like you. I speak. Now, what do people like? They like it when I say, "Look, we're going back to getting the family together on Sundays and having a little barbecue. And we're going to eat a great slice of picante with that strip of fat dipped in farofa and drink a damn cold beer." Man, people go wild because that's what people want.
1:09:02 Speaker 04 That's not fake news. That's not a lie for the Brazilian justice. I myself would call it a farce, a cowardice, because unfortunately, there are many people who believe in it.
1:09:15 Speaker 04 And here we are. From the moment when, when he gets cozy with dictators around the world, when he says that Hamas is not a terrorist group, the democratic world is moving away from us. No one wants to invest here in Brazil anymore. The capital outflow from Brazil has existed since after the presidential elections in 2022. I was in Florida and became aware of this. In other words, our situation here is the worst possible. When it comes to corruption, the accused of corruption in plea bargains are always the same. These people have admitted their crimes in exchange for a reduced sentence and handed over 5 billion Brazilian reals, individuals.
1:09:58 Speaker 04 Legal entities made a leniency agreement, the businessmen, to return 15 billion reals. Divide that by 6, that's what it is in dollars. This is the portrait of Brazil. I'm not speaking badly about my country, I'm telling the truth. And now you see. A scoundrel like that, Lula da Silva, lying about barbecue, picanha, and beer to win elections. And during the campaign, I couldn't show Lula with Amadinejad, with Chaves, with Maduro, with Fidel Castro, with Ortega. With drug dealers in Rio de Janeiro during the campaign in 2022,
1:10:38 Speaker 04 he went to a community, a favela in Rio de Janeiro called Morro do Alemano, to talk to local leaders who were elected among the organized crime. Our Minister of Justice in Brazil, who is now at the Supreme Court, entered a community in Rio de Janeiro where you can't go without getting shot and walked in openly to talk to drug dealers. That's what's happening in our Brazil. This is our Brazil, unfortunately. We are in an increasingly worse situation. There's no point in me trying to hide something or not talking about it, because I'll have problems either way. Without committing any crime, they want to sentence me to 28 years in prison in a scheme that only makes sense to those psychopaths
1:11:22 Speaker 04 who don't want the possibility of me running for election. If I run, I win. We're in shape to win the election, not to win votes. We already have more than enough votes to win the election, but they don't want us back. We disrupt the life of harmony that the authorities have. What kind of life of harmony is this? Everyone does whatever they want, and the people, well, they have to fend for themselves.
1:11:45 Patrick Bet-David? Well, I mean, the good thing is the fact that these videos out there for people to see to know what he said, right? In the past, here's another one where he's talking about folks who can't afford groceries today, right? Instead of saying, "Hey, let's find a way to improve the economy," he's saying, "Don't buy it." Rob, if you can play this clip. Here's Lula.
1:12:02 Speaker 07 Yes, one of the most important things for us to control the price is the people. You know this. If you go to the supermarket there in Salvador and you suspect the product is expensive, you don't buy it. Then, if everyone has this awareness not to buy what they think is expensive, the seller will have to lower the price to sell. Otherwise, it will spoil.
1:12:25 Patrick Bet-David? How do you react to that?
1:12:27 Speaker 04 Everything's expensive here. We have supermarket brochures from previous years. All the prices have gone up by a lot. And to try to cover all this up, he enlisted the institute responsible for statistics in Brazil, which provides the inflation numbers, for example. Every month, he's already used to it. His habit is to torture numbers, to lower them, but people know what's happening. "The price of coffee here is 90 reals. It doesn't make sense." That's it. Essential products, too. With that rise in the dollar by the end of December, beginning of January, it reflected in a 7% raise on the average price in supermarkets. It doesn't make sense for an agricultural country like ours to have these prices. What did I do back then?
1:13:12 Speaker 04 Especially during the Ukraine and Russia war, because prices rose worldwide. I did something here that no one expected. Together with our Minister of Economy, we started to reduce or eliminate taxes. I eliminated the federal fuel taxes. I eliminated the import tax on many items. I reduced taxes by a third on 4,000 products. And believe it or not, we started to collect more. As we often say... It's all about the economy, right? That so-called Laffer curve. The tax burden was so big that the more it grew, the less it collected. Then we found out, and our politics, for example, about re-industrialization and making groceries prices affordable, it was exactly that.
1:13:55 Speaker 04 Fuel prices affect the final cost of these products because of transportation in a country as large as ours. We did what was needed. Now, I'm sorry that the other side here lies all the time. You can see, in 2018, Lula was convicted in the state federal court. He got authorization, the passport, to go to Ethiopia. Me, without conviction, could not go to the United States. And Lula's most important panel from 2018 is the following: "United Africa." Is Africa here? "To eracoid, eracoidate, to eradicate hunger once and for all by 2025."
1:14:38 Speaker 04 It's always the same talk: "Stomach." It's about the poor, about social projects. It's barbecue, it's beer. Now, I believe that this phase of lies, people are starting to realize what's true, although a large part of the population
1:14:59 Speaker 04 can't really understand who is right and who is wrong. And they are jaisat now, understanding that socialism will lead everyone to misery, as is true here in Brazil. Socialism, communism, is turning all the equals in Brazil into misery to the bottom, unlike capitalism. With me, at the end of my administration, among other things, we have a lot of informality in Brazil's job market. It also exists in the United States. But the informality there is different from here, right? But we were at full employment in Brazil practically, combining formal work, informality, and the people receiving social benefits. Now, everything went back, is going backwards.
1:15:41 Speaker 04 In Brazil, although at first it started collecting more revenue, considering the increase in the tax burden, entrepreneurs are investing less and less here, taking their investment money abroad.
1:15:54 Patrick Bet-David? Oh, and that's one of the reasons why I ask you if the visas are going to China, Paraguay, other places. And I want to get into the business owner, but how bad can this thing get until the people finally say we're done? And has there been any conversation about impeaching Lula or not yet?
1:16:12 Speaker 04 No. The calendar does not allow for an impeachment now. If you start an impeachment process now, first you need popular support. For now, the people have not woken up to this. And this process is lengthy. We have the movement now, on March 16th, where I said that I am against impeachment, because if it were to happen, if everything goes well, it would happen around the middle of next year, already on the eve of the elections. And we should strengthen our work here for amnesty. We have mothers with children 3, 4, 5 years old, imprisoned. I was accused of being a coup plotter. It's absurd. It was similar to the Capitol.
1:16:56 Speaker 04 Although there, people died, here, no one died. No one wanted to stage a coup here on Sunday. Humble people. We have con collectors who were imprisoned for months. There is a mother who has 100 children, whose husband is sentenced to 14 years, a fugitive. Nowadays, Brazil has a huge problem with political refugees in Argentina, fleeing from Alexandre G. Moreira. In fact, fleeing from five criminal charges. One of them being an armed attempt to change the democratic rule of law. No one was found with any weapon. They are humble people, which don't have the capacity to understand what a coup d'etat could be, what the seizure of power could entail.
1:17:37 Speaker 04 It is cowardice, and they condemn these people to absurd sentences to get to me and give me 28 years in prison. To justify 28 years in prison for me, without any evidence, just narratives. I wasn't in Brazil at that time. And when I said back then, after the elections, because we filed with the last electoral body after the elections, some inconsistencies. What did Alexandre G. Morais decide to do? He didn't accept, he archived it, and fined the party 22 million reais. I couldn't do anything else. I had no way to appeal further to the Supreme Electoral Court. We even decided to consult the Constitution, to see what we could do. And even seeing the situation, seeing we were unable to do anything, we then gave up questioning the elections and decided to accept the fate
1:18:22 Speaker 04 and wait for the opportune moment for us to seek a return to power.
1:18:26 Patrick Bet-David? So let me ask you. Then who would you say is the most powerful individual in Brazil today? Is it Alexandre de Morais? Is it maybe Gilberto Casab? Because he's from the center and maybe Lula needs him because the economy is so bad, so Casab can kind of use the leverage to not give him what he wants? Or would you put it still more power on Globo, the media company? Who would you say, like, for example, the, you know, Yau Roberto? I think his name is Marinho. Who, Roberto Marinho? Who would you say is the most powerful person in Brazil today that has the most control?
1:19:06 Speaker 04 The one who influences the population is TV Globo. You get it? But TV Globo just wants money. They didn't have money with me. All right. Casab is a politician, heads a party, and it is common for parties here to seek space in the government. State companies, ministries, okay? But I have been talking with Casab lately, and he agreed with us on the amnesty issue. And these parties are already starting to leave the government. They're seeing that it will be a disaster to continue supporting this government. So Casab, who I was away from for a long time. We talked again, yes. And I hope this conversation continues.
1:19:51 Speaker 04 Now, the most rotten man in Brazil is the one who has the ability to arrest whoever he wants, for no reason. Alexandre G. Morais. He managed to gain this power. He has been in charge of an investigation since 2019, where he investigates whoever he wants. He does everything. He conducts searches and seizures, arrests. He negotiates plea bargains. He negotiates everything. Right? And people will end up giving in. We had an issue with him.
1:20:24 Patrick Bet-David? Surrender to Alexandre de Moraes?
1:20:25 Speaker 04 He stayed with a citizen there in Rome. And even though the video from Italy arrived in Brazil, it wasn't shown to anyone. And he was the first to see it. So then, he oppresses this person, and they are forced to apologize to avoid being arrested, even if they are innocent. That is his policy, unfortunately. I don't know why this man has this obsession with power and this obsession with constantly pursuing.
1:20:54 Patrick Bet-David? Okay, so you're saying Mourinho is purely money. If they get money, they're happy. If they don't get money, they're not really politically driven, is what you're saying. And Alexandre de Moraes, all about power. But based on your assessment, Kassab, he's the one that's reasonable, that is willing to hear your side out. Is that kind of what you're saying?
1:21:16 Speaker 04 Yes, we are talking. And we started talking after many years of no contact. The first conversation with him was very excellent. It was an excellent hour. And he knows what's happening in Brazil, what's going on. And no, I'm not saying he's on my side now. What's happening is that he's getting away from Lula.
1:21:38 Speaker 04 Twenty days ago.
1:21:41 Patrick Bet-David? Okay, that's good. So it's recent, twenty days ago. So would you say Kassab right now is closer to Alexandre, closer to Lula, or closer to you?
1:21:49 Speaker 04 No, I think he is getting closer, right?
1:21:55 Speaker 04 To what our Brazil has to be. So the politics in Brazil has always been about division, between parties. I did not give ministry positions to parties in my government. But Kassab has three ministries with Lula. I know that many of his deputies, because it's not his personal support, come from his bloc of parliamentarians. This bloc already has a considerable part that wants to leave the government. Because they think that staying in the government will be a disaster for them during the elections next year. And I usually say that Kasab is not coming to me, nor am I coming to him. We are talking, we are understanding each other. We have no other way to work together for now.
1:22:36 Speaker 04 He wants the growth of his party, I want the growth of mine. And this growth involves some issues that end up being common to us. Such as, for example, the issue of amnesty. And he told me, and nowadays I am sure that the majority of his party would vote in favor of the election. And I dare say also that nowadays, that we already have votes in the chamber to approve the amnesty. We cannot wait for someone from the right to be elected in 2026 to grant amnesty in 2027. Because I always say, every second for these innocent political prisoners is an eternity.
1:23:13 Patrick Bet-David? Does Kasab, Kasab fear, and by the way, just for some people, Kasab was the former, I think, the mayor of, was he the former mayor of Sao Paulo, Kasab was before? Yeah, so does, does Kasab, is he untouchable? Or does he fear Alexandre de Moraes coming after him? Because they're gonna see it, right? Kasab's gonna see this, Alexandre's gonna see this, everyone's gonna see this. So if Alexandre finds out that you and Kasab are getting closer, you had 20 days ago, do you think Kasab is the type of a man that fears Alexandre, or is he untouchable?
1:23:50 Speaker 04 No, no, I don't believe that. What I've told you here is already news. Kasab himself has already signaled on the issue of amnesty. He's already signaled. Nobody will be powerful forever. History shows us that. The Lula government, it's collapsing.
1:24:13 Speaker 04 Okay, he had a base, a very large base, in the five regions of Brazil, and it is the northeast. By coincidence, it's the region of nine states where the Workers' Party and the left have dominated for more than 20 years. It should be the best region in Brazil, but it's the worst. In fact, we can prove this by the migratory flow. Look, it is a region that's most difficult for employment, most difficult in terms of security, education, is the northeast. And it ended up being that this region became a hostage. Or a very friendly region, the government does not care about the lies it tells, like the beef issue. It's like that couple that fights all the time, but once in a while, when one has another interest, they kiss and make up.
1:24:57 Speaker 04 And he, in my opinion, is done.
1:25:02 Speaker 04 Those lies he always tells, he has been telling them since his first election, in 2002.
1:25:10 Patrick Bet-David? Got it. Okay, and would you say Casab right now has the biggest political party? Or would you say, who has the biggest political party right now in Brazil? There's a lot of them, there seems to be around 20 of them. You think he has one of the biggest ones?
1:25:24 Speaker 04 The largest party in the chamber is my Liberal Party. But in the senate, it is the Social Democratic Party from Casab. Actually, a senator should be coming to us very soon. We are going to tie with Casab in the senate. But you know, a lot of his people vote for us. Vote for our proposals. My party has 95 federal deputies. We have approximately 140 deputies, adding up from other parties that are with us. So there's a certain distance missing, but I think that half of the chamber, 257, adding up with other parties, we will achieve by the occasion of next year's elections. That is, the government will no longer be able to approve their proposals without agreeing with us.
1:26:05 Speaker 04 And the agreement with us is, it is not based on benefits, state companies, right? Official banks or ministries. It is what truly matters for the future of our Brazil. This is the group we have elected, and are also working so that these people are remembered in 2026, to compose the large base here of the Democratic Party in Brazil.
1:26:32 Patrick Bet-David? Brasil, eu estou muito feliz que você está assistindo a isso. Eu quero dizer algo aqui. Você sabe o que é a única coisa que os tiranos ou criminosos na política, no seu governo, você sabe o que é a única coisa que eles odeiam? É para as pessoas terem esperança. Foi dito: "Homem e mulher podem viver 40 dias sem comida, 4 dias sem água, 4 minutos sem ar, mas apenas 4 segundos sem esperança." Quando eu estava no Brasil, nós tivemos um desfile com o Nicolás Ferreira. E enquanto nós estávamos fazendo um desfile, nós nos deram uma camiseta e nós tomamos uma foto juntos. Ela se chama "O futuro parece brilhar com a bandeira brasileira." Eu não gostaria de ver milhares e milhares de pessoas no Brasil
1:27:15 Patrick Bet-David? vestir uma camiseta que diz "O futuro parece brilhar com a sua bandeira." Só para o Brasil, nós fizemos essas camisetas customadas para você. Se você quiser inyectar o espírito de esperança no Brasil, place um pedido, dois, três, compre para seus colegas, sua família. Clique no link abaixo ou vá para VTmerch.com e vire sua camiseta "O futuro parece brilhar" no Brasil. Deixe os ditadores, deixe os tiranos tão brilhantes que você seja otimista sobre o futuro.
1:27:44 Patrick Bet-David? Você já leu o livro "Team of Rivals"? Eu não. Então, é um livro escrito por... É um livro sobre o Abraão Lincoln, como ele conseguiu fazer os rivais trabalhar juntos para vencer. Eu acho que seria um livro muito bom para você considerar ler. Eu estou seguro de que eles têm uma tradução. Esse é o livro escrito lá. É o genio político do Abraão Lincoln. A razão pela qual eu estou levando isso aqui, eu acho que é um livro perfeito para você ler hoje. Mas a razão pela qual eu estou levando esse livro aqui é uma das coisas que eu assisti pessoalmente o presidente Trump fazer nessa última eleição. Ele começou a construir alianças de maneiras que nós nunca tínhamos visto antes, ok? Just a ano e meio, até mesmo algumas pessoas que eram exatas, você sabe...
1:28:30 Patrick Bet-David? Big fans of President Trump, they said, well, he's not gonna win. It's gonna be DeSantis, it's gonna be somebody else. They were going on somebody else because they did nothing, Trump stood a chance. But Trump was able to put a coalition of people together. He brought in Tulsi Gabbard, who left the Democratic Party to come to him. He brought in RFK, Bobby Kennedy, big Kennedy Democratic name, to leave that party to come to him. He was able to get Elon Musk, the biggest businessman, entrepreneur in America, some will say around the world. He came in, supporting the president. He brought in Joe Rogan, doing a podcast with him. He had all these other people that he brought in to create an alliance and a collaboration with them.
1:29:10 Patrick Bet-David? Who are you working with where maybe they were against you in 2018, 2022? Where now, they're coming up and saying, hey, you know what? With everything that's going on in Brazil today, we miss Bolsonaro. We wish we had Bolsonaro. What major influencers in different industries, maybe politics, business, entertainment, are getting behind you?
1:29:33 Speaker 04 I could not say their names, obviously. But even people from the Supreme Court, different from the two I nominated, have talked to me.
1:29:42 Patrick Bet-David? From the left?
1:29:43 Speaker 04 Yes. I get support even from the left. I don't see the Supreme Court as enemies. I want the Supreme Court to do its job, as any Brazilian does, right? Yeah, the people, for example, business people with resources, I lean towards business, which is more important. Some major business people in Brazil have also spoken, but they asked for confidentiality. Obviously, to avoid retaliation here in Brazil. So, everything is moving forward, in my understanding, in this way. You can see from the second to last poll that had me ahead of Lula, the last one now on the 18th. It also widens the margin for Lula.
1:30:27 Speaker 04 And the polls here, like the ones they tell me about in the United States, right? They were never very favorable to Trump or Bolsonaro, right? It means that if I'm 5% ahead, I'm at least 10% ahead. And the population, part of the population like these business people, agribusiness people, understand that. And what do they want? It is for Brazil to return to the economy it had with me, with the team I had with economist Paulo Guedes, which cannot be compared to Hadad's team. They want a central bank like, for example, with Roberto Campos and not like the current Galipolo, who is the nominee for Lula. They want ministries that solve Brazil's problems
1:31:12 Speaker 04 and do not keep delaying, in exchange for a signal from the business sector to perhaps seek their solution. What Brazil returned to, which Lula said would return, was neglected. If you look at the pension funds here, almost all of them are heading towards insolvency, like one of the latest now announced, which is that of the Postal Service and the Bank of Brazil. We saw billion-dollar losses last year, and the same happened to other funds as well. It will reach a point where the government won't even have money, won't have money to pay, for example, public servants. But at first, who will suffer? Those who receive, for example, government social projects,
1:31:58 Speaker 04 like Bolsa Familia. And Lula will always blame someone. He is sending a project now, wants to send a project now to parliament about tax exemption, for those who earn up to 5,000 reais. I will only be able to talk about it because I saw the project and I want to see, for example, how that... First problem there, the municipalities keep a portion of this income tax, which would now go to the worker. What is the compensatory source for this? Will the municipalities object? I think the proposal for tax exemption up to 5,000 reais is welcome, but we should see the project as a whole, not just a part of it. And what the government wants the most? We take a position on this for them to say, "Look, we wanted to exempt from income tax those who earn up to 5,000 reais", which is a part of the population.
1:32:42 Speaker 04 But Bolsonaro, Bolsonaro's party doesn't want it. I won't give him that opportunity. I do want it, but I want to see what's the catch, right? What he is imposing on this issue. What I intend if I return is to change only one article of the Fiscal Responsibility Law. I have the right to reduce or eliminate taxes without finding an alternative source for what the government stopped collecting. For example, the Trump administration. What did he say back then during the elections? He had four pillars. The first is deregulation. I revoked 5,000 regulatory norms. He talks about de-bureaucratisation. I transformed the Brazilian government into the second most digital in the world.
1:33:26 Speaker 04 He spoke about reducing the tax burden. I reduced taxes on a multitude of products, including fuel-related ones. And he talks about the energy shock, drilling indigenous reserves and areas also with environmental preservation. We back then. We agreed here, for example, on the construction of offshore wind farms on the coast of Brazil, which is different from the United States. There, they have gales, they have typhoons, here we have nothing. And there is a constant wind. Energy generation with private sector money, we agreed in 2022. It's the equivalent of 50 Itaipus. Just as we agreed, for example, on the exploration of uranium in Santo Antônio do Salto in Sierra,
1:34:09 Speaker 04 which the government now seems to have handed over either to France or China. The issue of rare minerals too, such as the issue of lithium, you know, which is very important there in the Jequitinyonha Valley, that from what I have learned, it just needs the final confirmation, handed over for Chinese exploration. And I wanted to do a lot of things, intending the future to do with the United States, which I prefer to be aligned with a democratic country that has freedom above all than with a country like China.
1:34:42 Patrick Bet-David? So just real quick, when you said he was trying to prevent people from paying taxes under 5,000 dollars, was that your idea or was that Lula's idea?
1:34:53 Speaker 04 Yes, the idea was mine back when I was a candidate.
1:34:58 Speaker 04 Well, but I say, right? To go from here to Angola, we can swim by canoe, by ship, by plane. Yeah, do you want to know the way, the way to present the compensations to the municipality in that regard?
1:35:14 Patrick Bet-David? Got it. So, what this made me think about, we're at the airport yesterday.
1:35:21 Patrick Bet-David? While at the airport, I'm talking to business owners that are around. Then they're coming to me, we're having conversations together. And I'm speaking to different people here locally. On the climate of being a business owner. Business owners, you know, have a challenging time. You're based on some of the stuff they said compared to what we have in America. I'll read it to you. I'm curious to know where you're gonna go with this. In Brazil, is it true that every employee gets 30 days of vacation per year? That's one. Two, that at the end of the year, in December, they pay a 13th month salary. So if you make $4,000 a month, in December, they pay you an additional $4,000 a month. And then, I hear the level of taxes that Brazil has. I can go through the taxes, I'm not gonna bore the audience to death.
1:36:06 Patrick Bet-David? I would much rather have you break it down for them to understand how taxes work for business owners. And then, even the business owner I was speaking to yesterday, who had a good-sized practice here, they do 80 million per year, so it's a real-sized business. He says, sometimes public servants not only get the 13th month, but they also get a 14th month per year, on top of the 30 days of vacation. And then, taxes, regulation, rules, laws, being sued. You can't say this, you can't say that. How hard is it to be a business owner in Brazil today? And how are you planning on fixing it?
1:36:48 Speaker 04 Brazilians go to the United States and don't complain, where there are no labour rights.
1:36:56 Speaker 04 Here in Brazil, the salary is a lot for those who pay and little for those who receive. If you receive 1,000 reais with a signed work card, the employer will have to pay another 1,000 to the government.
1:37:14 Speaker 04 So it becomes unfeasible. It's the situation. If you say that, if you talk about changing labour rights in reformulating, the Left mobilises this mass of workers against you. They did this in the 2002 elections, when our Minister of the Economy, or rather, of Labour, Francisco Dornelles, wanted to then change the CLT, modernising the CLT, not taking away labour rights. What did the Left do? They launched a huge campaign across Brazil, saying that the deputies who had voted in the chamber for that proposal wanted to end the 13th salary,
1:37:59 Speaker 04 overtime, severance fund, maternity leave and vacation bonus. They lied. But because of this lie, the internet was just starting that year in Brazil, the PT got the biggest size in the chamber. And it ended then by the criteria of the time, with the indication of its president. And a large part of the parliamentarians who lost their mandates, even good deputies, is because they had voted favourably for this proposal by the "working man", Francisco Barros Melis. The proposal was presented and not voted on. We lost a lot there. In the 2022 elections, especially in radio inserts here in Brazil, the PT said that "I wanted to end the 13th salary", "severance fund", this and that.
1:38:44 Speaker 04 And coincidentally, at the final stretch, it happened that I was denied 1.5 million radio spots throughout Brazil. So they always used the mass of workers against the employer. Together with Paulo Guedes, we had started discussing a very good project called "My First Business". So everyone who is complaining about the boss would have the chance to open their own business and pay a very good salary to their employees. Now tell me, these labor rights are included in the Brazilian constitution. You cannot remove them from there. These are regarded as unchangeable clauses. So this situation is really complicated.
1:39:28 Speaker 04 If you take, for example, someone who is working informally, selling water at traffic lights, selling shrimp on the beach, or ice cream in the stands. On average, he earns more than 5,000 reais a month. Some even reach 10,000 per month. You ask, "Do you want to work hard with 2,000 per month?" He says, "No." So, this big tie, this big problem, if you discuss this because we go to the elections, you lose the election. Because the left will say, "You want to take away workers' rights." And even those who are unemployed go against you.
1:39:59 Patrick Bet-David? So is this kind of like how social security is in America? Because if you talk about social security, the older baby boomers immediately get scared because they're thinking they're going to lose their benefits, even though when they send us the social security letter every year, it tells us it's going to run out in 2035. Very sensitive subject. Is this the same level of sensitivity in Brazil?
1:40:26 Speaker 04 I don't know if I understood your question.
1:40:28 Patrick Bet-David? I'm talking specific to the business owners and the taxes.
1:40:32 Speaker 04 Yes, yes.
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1:41:43 Speaker 04 In 2019, the very first year in office, we carried out a pension reform. Because that plan, it wasn't working anymore. Nowadays, because of the number of social benefits, because of the difficulty, finding people to work with these criteria, in a few years, if a new pension reform is not done, Brazil will go bankrupt. But it was always divided. From the difficulty of discussing this subject, as politically the left has this enormous ability to lie, as you just saw Lula talking about steak for everyone and a little beer.
1:42:25 Speaker 04 Now, in our economy, our minister Paulo Guedes had proposed creating a different work card, right? Green and yellow card, which some could choose. The left bombarded it. It didn't move forward. It was a way to ease the burden on the employer. We have in Brazil here 22 million people in social programs like Bolsa Família. We have, almost half of the states have more Bolsa Família beneficiaries than those with a work card. With a signed work card, it is a big problem. Now, you're not going to solve it overnight. You're not going to solve it without educating the population.
1:43:06 Speaker 04 And the population doesn't have this information, especially since our public education system is overrun by people on the left who don't let you.
1:43:18 Patrick Bet-David? That's not sustainable. The same thing was going on in Argentina, and it wasn't sustainable. When I went into Argentina, they would tell me, "Eight million people work to give government benefits to 12 million people that don't work." Some number like that, people were telling me. I may be off by a number or two. But going back to this, when I'm looking at taxes for small business owners in Brazil, right now, capital gains in Brazil for small business owners is 15% for businesses up to 5 million, 17 and a half from 5 to 10 million, 20% for 10 to 30, and then 22 and a half, 30 million plus.
1:44:01 Patrick Bet-David? Would you consider lowering capital gains from 15% to 10% and lowering each of them by 5%? So, business owners are willing to start reinvesting in Brazil instead of leaving?
1:44:17 Speaker 04 We have started reducing the tax burden, starting from the third year of my administration. And as I just told you, it worked, because we were able to collect more revenue. Because you see, when the tax burden reaches the level it reached in Brazil, the entrepreneur only has two choices: to go bankrupt or to evade taxes. And when we decided to take steps to reduce the tax burden, the number of bankruptcies started decreasing. And the entrepreneurs began to believe that they were doing the right thing again. And we got a lead by example, right? Even if the economy is negligible, we still have to set an example. Me, for example. When I arrived at the Alvarada Palace, the first thing I did was to turn off the pool heater. It was heated with electric energy, so I did that to set an example.
1:45:02 Speaker 04 I've never used my company card, never. I was allowed to withdraw up to 20,000 per month and spend on whatever I wanted, but I've never touched it. When I traveled through Brazil, I slept in army barracks. When I used to go abroad, I slept in embassies. Now, we've just heard in the news, the current government traveled abroad, and the president's room costs something like 95,000 haies. And that's something that discourages people, you know? It's not a good example. We finished our term without any corruption allegations, just to reiterate that. But the police raided my house in Brasilia. The federal police went there to seize my weapons. Can you believe that? I'm a former president of the republic, an army captain, and the police came to my house and took my weapons. I managed to keep one of the weapons with me, but I have three women living with me, you know?
1:45:48 Speaker 04 So this is to show that some examples stay with you, they mark you, and they have consequences. And you have proof of that when you travel throughout Brazil. And you are helping, since you will bring to us the video we are making right now. But really, if we don't start doing something to reduce our tax burden, nobody will want to have a business in Brazil. Today, the interest rate in Brazil, I believe it is the first or second highest. It's like the highest in the whole world. So when it comes to bringing investments, whether to agriculture or to a company, people chose to invest in the stock market. Or to keep their money to earn interest in the bank, in an investment there. Because there are several options that are worthwhile. It is reaching the point, Brazil has reached the point where those who have money do not want to invest in us.
1:46:30 Speaker 04 And when they start doing that, there is less job availability. There are product shortages, and that causes a raise in inflation. And this is already happening in Brazil. Now, this government does not have the courage to take these measures. Once we come to power, we will resolve this issue. I can guarantee that, under my watch, no worker will lose income. But we do need to take a look at some of the workers' benefits. Otherwise, eventually, everyone is going into poverty one day. They'll end up losing their jobs, for sure. And I know that a lot of people receive Bolsa Familia, right? And the Lula government admires the Cuban and Venezuelan regimes. So let me ask you, how much people in Cuba and Venezuela receive from that program? Nothing. And the tendency here is to come to that. But only if we are afraid of reforming labor laws.
1:47:13 Speaker 04 I repeat, we are not going to take away workers' rights. We just want to reorganize and make it so that the employer can actually afford their expenses. Otherwise, the tendency is for them to go bankrupt. And not just that, there's other factors as well. As you can see, artificial intelligence is advancing fast, among other things. So, and I'm not going to sugarcoat it, increasingly unskilled labor is becoming obsolete. What will these people live on? That's a question that can be discussed, of course. But you know, it's not easy to talk about it with some people, because some of them believe that we are never going to run out of money.
1:47:48 Patrick Bet-David? So the difference between Brazil and Argentina. When Milley, who's a friend of yours, you were at his inauguration, you went and you returned back to Brazil. Who was Milley's biggest enemy in Argentina? Did Milley have an Alexandre de Moraes? That was not happy about him winning? Was there somebody like that?
1:48:14 Speaker 04 You know, no one believed in Millet either. You know, but he ended up winning and he is a good economist. And he started implementing his project. That also considers workers' benefits and Argentina started to succeed again. So much so that the Argentine peso has greatly increased in value. Today, you see Argentinians on vacation in Brazil, but you don't see Brazilians on vacation in Argentina. So these measures, they are painful, but you have to take them. But discussing these subjects before the elections is basically a political suicide. And we have so much potential in Brazil as well if we could do just like Trump,
1:48:54 Speaker 04 who is going to explore oil, indigenous reserves, environmental protection areas, you know? If we do the same thing in Brazil, we will show the world that we are on the right track. We have, for example, in Brazil, a state in the north called Roraima.
1:49:11 Speaker 04 Every country needs energy, right? In Roraima, there is a river called Rio Cotinho. In the Rio Cotinho area, you have 12 kilometers of length by 600 meters. It's a huge drop, so we would be able to generate energy for like, at least one-third of Brazil, or maybe even half of the country. Because it is a huge volume of water, but you can't do anything because it's an indigenous reserve. In other words, you would be able to leave that state of poverty without sacrificing the population that already doesn't earn much. They don't earn much and they have to accept it because there is no alternative. In Brazil, the Bolsa Família program has made and continues to make sure that certain small towns in the interior of Brazil don't disappear.
1:49:54 Speaker 04 Because it is that money that drives the economy in those small towns. So I know that the Bolsa Família program, it may have its aspects that aren't very beneficial, but there's the humanitarian side that cannot be overlooked.
1:50:07 Patrick Bet-David? Yeah, I guess I'm asking that question because in 2018 when you ran, you ran on law and order. You ran on, you know, different types of policies. You had anti-corruption, anti-establishment, economic liberalization. That's what you talked about in 2018 when you ran, right? Milley ran on the, what was going on with their currency. You know, Afuera, we're gonna get rid of this, we're gonna get rid of this. I mean, really, Milley was the first Doge, right? Where Department of Governmental Efficiencies, Milley was talking about that for Argentina.
1:50:43 Patrick Bet-David? And even though the country is a socialist nation, they still supported him, for him to be able to run on that. If you were able to run right now for 2026, and you are obviously running directly and indirectly, what are two or three things you're campaigning on?
1:51:00 Speaker 04 When I took office, I eliminated 20,000 commission positions with free appointment. We don't conduct public exams, except for the federal police and the federal highway police. We reduced the number of employees. We have started the administrative reform. And that reform was going to be applied to civil servants who took office starting from that, from the passing of that law. We had the issue from the left wing, saying it was bad for everyone. And this caused us a lot of harm during the elections. But if that reform doesn't happen at some point, the tendency is for public servants in Brazil to end up not receiving their salary. Because, you know, we can't just run the mint to print more money because it's actually the monetary expansion that leads to inflation.
1:51:45 Speaker 04 And I travel throughout Brazil, like I'm going to do soon.
1:51:50 Speaker 04 I'll be in the northeast as well. And I will meet with the sector of, with sugarcane producers. And I meet with the entrepreneurs. And I also meet with the working masses on the same day. So slowly, we are managing to introduce this discussion, you know? And they believe in me. And it is a sacrifice, but we have to do it now so we can be happy later. Now, if you leave it as it is, everybody is going to suffer. And Brazil is huge, and because of its size, it is a country that has the greatest mineral wealth in the world. We have great biodiversity, a huge amount of arable lands, drinking water. We have natural beauties, a pleasant climate. If we run it right, there is no way this country won't succeed. The problem is who is leading Brazil right now. The people believe in me, they trust me.
1:52:35 Speaker 04 And I'm sure that coming back to power without these constraints of justice, we will be able to put Brazil back on track. And also, we are going to expand our international relationships, you know, especially with the United States.
1:52:50 Patrick Bet-David? I'm only asking because I wonder, the campaign today with the climate in Brazil, knowing that they control Supreme Court, how do you get the people behind it? Economy would be one. When the approval rating is as low as it is, I think a part of it's got to be sticking to economy, how small business owners, because what Trump did, Trump got, you know, Saudi Arabia to come out, "Hey, we're going to put a trillion dollars, and another bank, a half a trillion dollars, we're going to invest a hundred billion dollars, we're going to invest two hundred billion dollars." Because the climate to invest in US got better where money's coming from outside, right? For you, I mean, that helps Americans.
1:53:32 Patrick Bet-David? If money's coming in, that trillion dollars is hundreds of thousands of jobs. Okay, good-paying jobs, many more opportunities for others. That's good for the economy. What, what, what can you be doing, and I don't even know if it's happening right now under Lula, to get other companies, other countries to say, "You know what? We feel so optimistic about the future of Brazil that we want to invest billions of dollars in Brazil." What can you do for that to happen here as well?
1:54:01 Speaker 04 So first of all, I believe that the current government scares any investor. I can safely say that I'm the complete opposite of Lula. For instance, I support privatization. I support the free market. And I will place people that I know in the ministries. People who are a lot similar to those who were part of my government in the past. So people that I trust, who were competent and honest people. And this is very common in South America, right? And Brazil is no different. It is very common for a government to end its term with multiple accusations of corruption, legal disputes, or with some people going to prison for corruption. That didn't happen in my administration.
1:54:44 Speaker 04 For instance, when Trump talks about, when he talks about energy. Back when I was president, I received a proposal from an Arab country. They offered $1 billion to invest in the Bay of Angra dos Reis. To turn it into a Brazilian Cancun. But if we wanted to accept this investment, we needed to revoke a decree. Decrees are presidential, right? But only the parliament can repeal an environmental decree. I wasn't able to revoke that decree. So we couldn't accept the investment and we lost 1 billion reais. And many governors, when they learned about this possibility, they started reaching out to me. And we have the same issue in my state as well, in Rio de Janeiro.
1:55:25 Speaker 04 So that's to say that we need to review the environmental legislation in Brazil. If we don't do that, the country really has no way to breathe freely in the economy. And when I say that, I mean for the people to be able to dream of better days for themselves, you know? So when I reached the presidency, obviously, just like in Trump's second term, he started his government more prepared and with a better team. And if you want to make a real change, you really have to attack the deep state. You know what I mean? You have to undermine the swamp, you know? Drain the swamp. You can't just do nothing. You can't just arrive here with only peace and love. You need to have a plan, a good proposal. To make it so that... The ministries that are staffed,
1:56:09 Speaker 04 official banks that are staffed, and state-owned companies as well. We need to start making movements in Brazil to inspire confidence abroad. Today, we have a recall from this previous government that the world out there looks at us. We had Brazil's interest rate at 2% per year. Now it's 13%. There is no way this country can function like this. You can't fight inflation just by raising interest rates. It's a very simple remedy, but it has its limits. And this medicine of increasing interest is killing Brazil. Both countrymen and entrepreneurs are getting more and more into debt each day. And they are sitting there just watching this pile of money associated with banks exponentially grow. So, all of this, these proposals,
1:56:53 Speaker 04 the general feeling of the people, the image that we are sending to others, they know from their experience during my government that we're going to do something better now. And also follow the example of President Trump. But for me, the main goal is to tackle all these problems in Brazil head-on. I know it can be solved. The way I see it, when the people are on my side, they are stronger than any other institution in Brazil.
1:57:17 Patrick Bet-David? Corruption in Brazil, right? When I talk to folks the last few days and I ask them about the history of Brazil, one thing everybody tells me, Mr. President, is the corruption in Brazil, the history of it, what's happened. I think Lula said in a documentary I was watching, he said, "If Jesus came to Brazil, even he would need to make an alliance with Judas." Okay? That's what Lula said. That's the level of corruption. You watch this documentary and you're seeing Lula being linked to the apartment that he took, which he gets nine and a half years, then they raise it to 12 years. Then, when they're investigating everybody, they say, "Hey, this money that was paid,
1:58:02 Patrick Bet-David? you guys were taking 2% or 3% as a side money." And then multiple politicians said, "Yeah, that's normal in Brazil. We've always done that." It's almost as if corruption is normal in Brazil. "We take some money on the side. If we give you a deal, we should get some money here." And then, once, obviously, Lula gets in trouble, four months later, his wife has a stroke and she passes away. And even Lula was criticized for saying, "I never took the apartment. My wife did." And then he had to change his position a little bit.
1:58:35 Patrick Bet-David? Last night, I'm with your son Eduardo. And, you know, a couple of people at the table, they're telling us how there was a prison in Brazil that during the military regime from 64 to around 1985, when people would get arrested, you know, regular white-collar crime would be in jail with politicians, would be in jail with the mafia, would be in jail with murderers, with criminals. And so during that time, they were training each other, which was the politicians were learning how to commit better crime. The other guys were learning how to make money more. But from your perspective, why do you think, no matter who I talk to, they say the level of corruption in Brazil,
1:59:19 Patrick Bet-David? it has a whole different level than other countries?
1:59:25 Speaker 04 Okay, the prisons indeed happened. But this doesn't justify it.
1:59:31 Speaker 04 The prisons don't justify this improvement. It really doesn't. All right?
1:59:39 Speaker 04 And Lula just says that because he's trying to find a way to justify the corruption that happens in his own government. Because we didn't have any problem like that during the four years I was president. I had no reports of corruption with 23 ministers. I had dozens of state-owned companies.
1:59:58 Speaker 04 I had five official banks, and we had no problem at all. Now, when you start your term
2:00:05 Speaker 04 and to gain political support, you hand over public assets, that's what's going to happen. You know? Even a saint would end up engaging in corruption. And we all know that Lula doesn't set a good example for something different to happen. So we did something different. The state-owned companies, which were always running at a loss, started making billions in profits with us. Today, they go through billion-dollar losses. The pension funds are out there breaking everyone. And now we have 6 million people. People who are active employees, retirees, and pensioners, who are increasingly seeing their future, you know, they are in the dark. They can't see any perspective for their future regarding their income.
2:00:50 Speaker 04 Lula placed someone to manage the pension fund, someone who was already convicted in the past concerning that same pension fund. The Postal Service Pension Fund, for example, back then with Lula and Dilma, used to buy paper from Venezuela, from Chavez and Maduro.
2:01:05 Speaker 04 And Air Force planes would go there to Venezuela and come back here with a certain frequency. And what were they transporting? I don't know. I won't jump to any conclusions here or make accusations that I can't prove. But in one of those trips, the plane stopped and it was coming back from Cuba, stopped in Caracas, and Chavez told everyone to get off, including the Minister of Defense. And they made a raid on the plane. So, you know, I think I can say the corruption with the Workers' Party became to a huge level of intelligence and quantity. We see a lot more corruption today than we ever did. Nowadays, people only talk about billions of reals, like the Banco do Brasil Pension Fund.
2:01:48 Speaker 04 This pension fund reported a drop of around 15 billion reals last year only, you know? That's the level of corruption in Brazil. And it returned full steam with Lula's government, because he accepts it. In other words, when Brazil doesn't have an example to follow, and this example is the main figure, the President of the Republic, the tendency is for everything to fall apart, as has been happening. I know there are people saying that maybe if Lula, if we wait until the elections next year to took him out, they believe Brazil might reach a point where it's impossible to find the turning point. And it would be impossible to fix Brazil, we would be doomed. I believe, anyway, I'm not going to give up on my country, even with all the risks
2:02:33 Speaker 04 I face, including 28 years in prison for a coup. I spoke to this guy from Israel, and he said, "What kind of coup is this that not even the Mossad knew about?" So, as you can see, only Alexandre de Moreira and Lula believe that this coup happened. And what do they want? Well, if they exclude me from politics, Lula will manage to have a safe conduct for him in the future, just like what happened when Biden gave to Fauci a preventive...
2:03:01 Speaker 04 A preventive amnesty regarding Covid issues they had there. Here in Brazil, the preventive amnesty is to find a way to put me in jail.
2:03:09 Patrick Bet-David? Yeah, I mean, when I see the names, I see Sergio Cabral Filho. Okay, the former governor Rio de Janeiro who got 400 years. I think he got some money for World Cup on the side, right? You hear stories about Flavio Dinho. We talked about him earlier. There's a bunch of other names that you hear about the corruption. And then, one of the insiders that I was speaking to here in Brazil gave me a timeline about what happened. When you won in 2018, there was a moment where even the opposition didn't believe you won. And they were starting to question whether you really won or not. And later on, in April of 2018,
2:03:54 Patrick Bet-David? there was a hacker where they asked them, was there actually a hacker that hacked into the voting machine? And there's this conversation being had? And they said, yes, there was a hacker that invaded the TSE system, which is a Superior Electoral Court. And then the elections happened first round, October 7th of 2018, first round. This is against Haddad. Then second round happens October 28th. Then in November 7th, the magazine Tec Mundo published an interview with a hacker, anonymous hacker. Nobody knew the name, but they knew who it was. That said, he was inside the system with the login and passport of a judge, a judge that I think you appointed, Sergio Banios from TSE.
2:04:40 Patrick Bet-David? Then on November 9th, Tec Mundo informed that federal police and TSE opened an investigation about this case. Now, whether the judge gave the passport or the hacker got into getting the passport, nobody knows what happened there. He probably was able to hack into it.
2:04:58 Patrick Bet-David? And then in August 4th of 2021, while you were still president, you did a show, I think you did a video or something like that, with Representative Felipe Barros. Forgive me if I'm not pronouncing it right. You did a livestream with them talking about this FBI inquiry, and they did it as a way to pressure the Congress to approve the printed vote bill, like bringing back the paper ballot. The next day, so that's August 4th, you do the video, 2021. The next day, August 5th, Alexandre de Morais classified this inquiry. Has anything about this investigation been looked at more? Has mainstream media investigated this? Has this been talked about more?
2:05:43 Patrick Bet-David? Has anything happened since August 5th of 2021?
2:05:47 Speaker 04 You are very well informed. If I say everything that I know, I will be arrested a few hours after you put this on air.
2:05:59 Speaker 04 No one believed in my lesson.
2:06:04 Speaker 04 I was stabbed. And everyone in Brazil was scared. And that's because I was speaking to the people.
2:06:13 Speaker 04 I based my campaign on a biblical passage from John, Chapter 8, verse 32. "And by knowing the truth, the truth will set you free."
2:06:22 Speaker 04 As soon as the second round of the elections ended in October 2018,
2:06:27 Speaker 04 someone reported a fraud to the Superior Electoral Court.
2:06:31 Speaker 04 And the TSE president is Ms. Rosa Weber. So immediately, she took steps for the federal police to start investigating this so-called fraud. All right? And I wasn't aware of this investigation. I found out about it in 2021.
2:06:49 Speaker 04 A couple of years after it happened,
2:06:52 Speaker 04 it was Deputy Felipe Barros who brought it to my attention. He was participating on a committee in the parliament back then that was discussing changes in the electoral system. It was a proposal to amend the constitution by the federal district deputy Bia Kichis. For us to, actually, they wanted to implement the printed vote alongside the electronic ballot box as it happens today in Venezuela, as it happens today in Paraguay. And someone found out about this investigation. The commission voted unanimously. It was approved and they went to get that inquiry at the federal police. And when he arrived at the commission, I also got a copy. Because it was open to everyone, you know? It wasn't a classified investigation.
2:07:39 Speaker 04 And I presented this inquiry in my meeting with some ambassadors.
2:07:46 Speaker 04 And why did I arrange that meeting, you ask? Because two months before, the president of the Electoral Justice at the time, who was Mr. Edson Fakin, also met with ambassadors and concluded his meeting by saying the following:
2:08:01 Speaker 04 "As soon as the Superior Electoral Court announces the winner of the elections, your respective heads of state must acknowledge the winner." It seems he already knew who was going to win.
2:08:13 Speaker 04 Well,
2:08:16 Speaker 04 when showing it to the ambassadors, the next day, this inquiry was classified as confidential, secret. If anyone said anything about it, they would be arrested. It's Brazil's policy: arrest first, ask questions later. This is our freedom of speech. This inquiry is still open. But now, what can I tell you in advance? This inquiry... It's still open till... It's still open to this day. It has not been closed. No officer agreed to close the inquiry without an unbiased opinion. That's it, they didn't agree, it's still open to this day. Since 2018. It will be seven years now in November. If I disclose what's within these three pages,
2:09:00 Speaker 04 they will arrest me on the spot, immediately after I speak. Right after you.
2:09:07 Speaker 04 Right after the moment you share that piece of information. So that's why I'd like to keep this confidential for the moment. But I do hope that this investigation becomes public. We don't have freedom of speech in Brazil. If you talk about vaccines or question the electronic voting machines here, you get arrested in Brazil. This is the problem we are facing at the moment. They're going ahead and accusing me of a bunch of things. But all of this, the origin of all of this, is that they say that since 2019, I started discrediting the electoral system to carry out a coup. It's their accusation, right? Now, I, since 2012, I have fought for the printed vote. In fact, in 2016, I approved the printed vote.
2:09:52 Speaker 04 That was in 2015. Dilma vetoed it. We found a way to overturn Dilma's veto, and then the Supreme Federal Court, in an 8 to 3 decision, said no. They said that the printed voting was unconstitutional. I don't know on what basis. And this electoral system of ours continued, which is the electronic one. And according to an external audit from 2014, requested by the PSDB party, that audit states that the electronic voting machines are inauditable. You brought up many points. I'm not gonna say whether it's true or false, but I can say you're very well informed. By opening the black box of this inquiry, you can solve the issue here.
2:10:36 Speaker 04 You can resolve the issue of the Brazilian electoral system that has been dragging on. This will come to light, and it has to happen sooner or later.
2:10:43 Patrick Bet-David? Yeah, so, so the person I was speaking to was saying that, originally, the Workers' Party was paying this hacker to find a way to flip...
2:10:58 Patrick Bet-David? Ten to, you know, whether it's eight to ten million votes, because on the first run, the October 7th, I think, election, you beat them forty-nine million to thirty-one million votes. It wasn't even close. And then on October 28th, the second round, it was by ten million. So the Workers' Party wanted to give him money to flip. I think your number was seventeen in 2018. This recent one, you were twenty-two. But they wanted it to flip. And then when that didn't happen, they didn't get paid. The guy didn't get paid, and he went to the magazine. My question for you is the following. I don't know if this is true or not. I don't live in Brazil. I'm not involved in Congress, Senate, Supreme Court. I am a person that lives in America. Has this hacker at all done any other interviews
2:11:43 Patrick Bet-David? anywhere else? Because if anybody knows who this hacker is, that magazine, they know exactly who the hacker is because they did the interview. Unless the email was sent anonymously, has that hacker ever come out and done any other interviews with anyone else?
2:12:03 Speaker 04 I think that with the exposure of your journalistic report, given the coverage and the audience you reach, this hacker might be found. I think it's possible that will happen. Now, the complaint made to the Superior Electoral Court at the end of my elections was very well-prepared. So much so that it led the President Minister of the Superior Electoral Court, Mrs. Rosa Weber, to formally request the federal police to open an inquiry. And it was well-executed. I'll even tell you something here. I faced three search-and-seizure actions. One to seize my vaccination card, right? Another to seize my passport, right? Among other things. One of the searches and seizures took place right here in this
2:12:45 Speaker 04 building. They took some papers from my desk, and then there was an accusation that an accusation that I had done renovation work on my house, worth nine-hundred thousand reals. A house that was valued at ninety-eight thousand reals. The house was worth ninety-eight thousand because property prices aren't adjusted in the income tax. I did the renovations, paid via PICS, and declared it in my income tax. This document, according to the newspaper O Globo, was seized here, at the headquarters of the Liberal Party. And then I told them, "Federal police, I want you to leak the three pages of inquiry 1361 that were on my desk."
2:13:26 Speaker 04 And I want to know if you're willing to give me two hours to discuss any topics. Whether it's this one, the accusations of receiving gifts, accusations regarding vaccines, or the coup issue, I'm at your disposal. You will have the biggest audience in Brazil's history, I'm sure of it. TV Globo, which has been attacking me for years, remains silent. So, I've handed this issue over to my lawyers. And in my defense, I hope to have full rights to defend myself. This inquiry will be called upon to explain that I never tried to stage a coup by criticizing the electronic voting machines in 2019. Especially since we are going to have this inquiry, I should mention that I was the author of several amendments
2:14:10 Speaker 04 that allowed for printed voting in the past. Since 2012, I've been a strong proponent of printed voting because I believe in the reliability of the machine, not the programmer.
2:14:21 Patrick Bet-David? So, if the hacker has the courage to come out and sit down and show exactly every documentation he had that he revealed to the magazine that Alexandre shut down on, I believe, August 4th or 5th of 2021. If that were to come out, how do you think the Brazilian people will react to it?
2:14:45 Speaker 04 Look, you don't even need the hacker. The inquiry alone is enough. Because the information provided didn't come from you, from this person, or that person. It didn't come from witnesses.
2:14:57 Speaker 04 It came from people who worked within the Alexandre Justice. It was the head of IT, do you know what I mean? Right? It was people from the tribunal itself who provided the information in these three pages from within the Superior Electoral Court. You don't even need the hacker. If the hacker showed up, all the better. He would provide all the mechanics of it, right? However, the statements from the Supreme Court personnel, important people, they shed light on the events of 2018.
2:15:27 Patrick Bet-David? Have any whistleblowers come out yet? Has there been any whistleblowers?
2:15:37 Speaker 04 No, no whistleblower came forward to make a public complaint. So because this anonymous complaint was so well crafted. Well, because of that, the Supreme Court decided to launch an inquiry. It wasn't just a random accusation, it was very well crafted, which led the electoral justice system to believe that something was wrong there. If something was indeed wrong, I would be the one to lose my mandate. And the one who wanted to take my place was the leftist communist and Workers' Party member, Hadad.
2:16:07 Patrick Bet-David? Yeah, but, but when I, so the reason for a whistleblower in a situation like this to not come out is they're afraid, right? What if I come out and what if they find out and what happens to me? In 2016, where WikiLeaks came out with Julian Assange, everybody looked at those emails and the documents, well, wait a minute. This is what Hillary Clinton, and Hillary Clinton was here. So in this case, for me, if you're going against Lula, Lula is not Biden. To me, Lula is Hillary Clinton. Lula has a lot of experience. Hillary Clinton has a lot of experience. If, nobody thought Trump was gonna win.
2:16:50 Patrick Bet-David? When WikiLeaks came out, when the Comey letters came out, talking about what Hillary did a week or two weeks before the election, everything changed. Do you think the reason why whistleblowers afraid of come out because they're worried what the Supreme Court and the morass will do to them?
2:17:07 Speaker 04 Maybe the whistleblower is not even in Brazil. He wants to keep selling his, he wants to keep selling his hacker services. Maybe that's why they don't want to get involved here anymore, perhaps. But as I told you, the hackers are dispensable. The inquiry itself, if it gets into your hands, for example, just call me and I'll tell you the three pages that show what really happened in 2018.
2:17:33 Patrick Bet-David? Okay, well, I mean, again, the right people are gonna see it. It's gonna take a lot of courage to do this. Maybe if they were to come out, I guess the worry they would have is if you're married with kids, because sometimes these guys that come out, they don't have any kids. But maybe if they were to come out, they would need to move to a state like Florida to feel a little bit safer in the interim. Because it's that important, especially to me. I'm an American, I love America. But my mother's Armenian, my dad is Assyrian, and I lived in Iran. Iran used to be a beautiful country in the 60s, 70s, pre-revolution. There was no issues in the Middle East when the Shah was president. And when he was the king.
2:18:17 Patrick Bet-David? Once Khomeini and the rest of the regime came, there was chaos. For somebody who knows this information, and they know it was used against you, and for them to not come out, it is almost a... It is, it almost shows a lack of... I don't want to say love and pride in your country. It's very hard, don't get me wrong. But I think if they do come out, they will be a hero that they'll be looked at for many years to come. And they'll put the fear in the justice system to not be able to bully the next Bolsonaro. That they will do. If they're able to do it to you,
2:18:59 Patrick Bet-David? they're gonna continue doing it to Nicolas Ferreira, they'll do it to Gustavo, they'll do it to Eduardo, they'll do it to anybody and everybody that comes next because... Pablo Balinski, it'd be any of these guys that they'll go after. So anyways, that was a message more for the person that's... If they know, it'd be courageous to come out.
2:19:22 Patrick Bet-David? Forget about the hacker, look at me.
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2:20:39 Speaker 04 No matter what happens to me...
2:20:48 Speaker 04 No matter what happens to me...
2:20:51 Speaker 04 In due time, the truth will be known.
2:20:58 Patrick Bet-David? You're certain of that?
2:21:01 Speaker 04 Absolutely. No matter what happens to me...
2:21:12 Speaker 04 Out of every 100 doctors who learned about my case...
2:21:21 Speaker 04 Or rather, out of every 100 people who went through what I did with the stabbing, according to the experts, only one survives. So look at Trump. It was just a matter of three inches and he would have died. I think that
2:21:36 Speaker 04 neither he nor I was saved from anything. Look, the difference between Trump and me is his purchasing power and mine. Right? I'm struggling to pay for a lawyer. Even though I know that
2:21:54 Speaker 04 the decision over there doesn't depend on a Rui Barbosa.
2:22:03 Speaker 04 It depends on other things. But yes, I could have stayed in the United States. I could be exiled in the United States now. I may not be competent in many things, but I have a name. I am a former president, and I have in my hands a wealth of information I gathered from around the world. Just because the guy talked for three hours with Putin, it doesn't matter. So yes, we do have information, and they even offered me a job there to work as a as a spokesperson in real estate sales, those kinds of things, you know? I decided to come here despite all the risks. I tell you, I have no obsession with power. I have a passion for my Brazil,
2:22:48 Speaker 04 and I believe that God saved me. If you look at the images, you'll see what happened. Just like we saw the image of Trump getting shot in the ear. It wasn't accidental. I believe that each of us has a mission here on this earth. You have your mission, I have mine. And you have yours. I will complete mine. Next month, I turn 70 years old. So that means that I've got more years in the rearview than in the windshield. The Brazilian people will not be disappointed in me, even if those people, even if they choose to do something extremely malicious in the next few, in the next few days.
2:23:31 Patrick Bet-David? What, you said next month you're gonna be 70 years old. And I looked at your birthday. Your birthday is the same as Ayrton Senna. You guys have a similar birthday. I have watched Senna's documentary 100-plus times. I love Senna so much that I named my daughter Senna. My oldest daughter's name is Senna. Same spelling, because of what he was to his country. When the last two days, Mr. President, I'm walking around and I'm asking people, "Tell me who are the heroes of Brazil?" Everybody I talked to, they would say, "Pele, Senna, and Bolsonaro."
2:24:14 Patrick Bet-David? Why do you think your people love you so much?
2:24:19 Speaker 04 A rare thing in a politician is to speak the truth.
2:24:23 Speaker 04 And I brought the truth to all of Brazil. I... I made the people
2:24:38 Speaker 04 believe in their country again.
2:24:43 Speaker 04 I faced at least one interference per week from the Supreme Federal Court to make my government unfeasible.
2:24:51 Speaker 04 I worked from Sunday to Sunday. I restored the people's admiration for the green and yellow colors. I helped them realize their potential.
2:25:03 Speaker 04 I created the motto "God, Country, Family, and Freedom." I showed that there is something more important than life itself, which is freedom, and the people believed in me.
2:25:15 Speaker 04 And if you ask me, "How do you do it?" I don't know. The people like me. Am I the best among those out there? Yes, I am. I'm holding on. Because I don't just criticize. I show where the way out is. Something no one else has done. I have the patience to talk to everyone. And that's something few politicians do. And it's not just me. Together with my ministers and secretaries, we created new leaders. I never attributed any gains to myself alone. I always shared the credit. Yes, I shared with all of them. We now have in our country some good governors, senators, deputies, and counselors emerging all over Brazil.
2:26:01 Speaker 04 So, how did I manage to do this? I don't know. Maybe because I am a countryperson from the interior of São Paulo. I never denied my roots and never sought sympathy by saying, "Look, everyone, I was a poor boy from the interior of São Paulo. My mother had seven children. Vote for me." No. Não, todos aqui são iguais. Eu sou contra as contas. Eu sou contra tudo isso. Eu tenho oposto a agenda do mundo desde que apareceu a agenda do mundo. Eu acredito em igualdade, em meritocracia. Eu passo o exame para a academia militar em Recende. Foi um exame nacional com 38 aberturas, e eu passei. Eu fui aceito. Eu não sou diferente dos outros cidadãos deste país. Você só precisa ter uma oportunidade e lutar por ela,
2:26:46 Speaker 04 em vez de esperar que o estado te ajude. E eu sempre dei esse mensaje à nossa gente. Eles acreditam em nós. Eu organizei rally de motocicletas com 300.000 bicicleta. Foi um sight inacreditável, e tudo é gravado em vídeo. Nós trouxemos algo diferente para a população. Agora eu não vim aqui. Eu não cheguei tão longe apenas para parar, por causa de uma pessoa. Uma pessoa. Uma pessoa que não se afastaria de uma confrontação comigo sobre essas verdades. Eles não se afastariam. Alguém que procuraria uma maneira de me encarar, ou até tentar algo mais longe, desde que eles tenham o poder. Mas podemos ganhar, vamos ganhar. Não é por mim, não é sobre mim.
2:27:30 Speaker 04 Quando eu fui eleito presidente, eu pensei a mim mesmo: Meu Deus! O que foi meu pecado? Ter que pagar por ocupar a presidência da república? Então, quando meu mandato começou, pessoas importantes da legislativa começaram a interferir com a presidência. Eles fecharam as portas e disseram: Eu quero isso, isso e isso. Você não está em cargo.
2:27:53 Speaker 04 É assim que funcionam as coisas no Brasil. Eu ainda me almejo. E escuta-me. Há outra questão que estou tentando explicar hoje. Você sabe qual é a empresa proprietária do estado mais covilizada no Brasil? Ela sempre foi Itaipu Nacional. Você sabe por quê? Porque ela não foi auditada. Se eu te dizer quem tinha as mãos lá na empresa? Eu estou certo que você seria surpreso. Tudo é documentado. Eu não queria, e eu não tentei criar um governo baseado em retenção. Eu nunca disse: Vamos pegar alguns ossos antigos. Vamos perseguir essas pessoas. Eu não persegui ninguém, não uma pessoa. Completamente diferente do que o Partido dos Trabalhadores está fazendo agora, mesmo sempre sendo avisado de outra maneira. Olavo de Carvalho, whom people in Brazil know,
2:28:37 Speaker 04 has long talked about confronting the left. I thought I could do things differently when it came to confronting the left, or rather, not confronting them. But I didn't. I'm not gonna say I regret it. I'll do things differently if I return. These people need to leave public life, just like Trump is doing in the United States. Trump is trying to drain the swamp. Just look at the example of the FBI you have there, or even the CIA, right? He's going after people who are part of the Democrats. Here, the situation is no different, and I know how to handle it. And the best part is that Trump is doing this in his second term. So I know it's possible to drain the swamp here in Brazil too. And I know that we can do things differently, that we can make Brazil thrive. The right path is to increasingly
2:29:21 Speaker 04 form good partnerships. Because if you look at my example, whom did I stimulate partnerships and business with? With the Arab world, Japan, South Korea, the United States? That's what I did during my term. I didn't try to get close to Iran and Venezuela, unlike Lula.
2:29:38 Speaker 04 And Cuba! Our money is funding projects in Cuba. Ports in Cuba. Subway in Caracas. Airport in Angola. Money for Bolivia! Bolivia even took two of our refineries. And what was the role of the Brazilian government? They expropriated, took two of our refineries, and what did Celso Amorim say? Celso Amorim was the Minister of Foreign Affairs at the time, and later became the Minister of Defense here in Brazil. He said that Brazil was showing imperialistic behavior and that the refinery was theirs, that the territory was theirs. And as a result, the refinery was theirs. The outcome for us: higher gas prices. In other words, that grand agreement called the Fórum de São Paulo was in place.
2:30:21 Speaker 04 The Fórum de São Paulo was in full swing. What is the Fórum de São Paulo? It was created in 1990. Who was in it? Lula, Fidel Castro, F.A.R.C., which is the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia. So that means that dictatorships from almost all over the world, they created this grand... They created this grand forum to help each other during elections. And the press here never believed it. They thought it was a conspiracy theory. And the answer is right there. The truth is becoming more evident to all of us, even Lula himself. He is saying now that Hamas is not a terrorist group? He talks as if he believes the group is defending something that always belonged to them. So does that mean killing children, raping women, beheading men, setting people on fire?
2:31:06 Speaker 04 Isn't terrorism for Lula? And a group here in Brazil worked to bring Lula back, to get him out of prison, to make him eligible, because they were saving democracy from the dictator Jair Bolsonaro. You do not see any action from me to censor the media, social media, or traditional media? Nothing. Zero. Quite the opposite. We had absolute freedom in Brazil under my leadership. But as soon as I left, those people who returned started to censor. With the help of the Supreme Federal Court, who would have thought? They are saying that they have ended Bolsonarism, along with the minister, and even the current president of the Supreme Federal Court, Minister Barroso. He even said at a UNE meeting, the National Union of Students, "We defeated Bolsonarism."
2:31:52 Speaker 04 How did he defeat it? With what actions? A question. Did you say, "Get money from the TSE," or not? And I hope this information comes from the United States. We can't get out of this hole alone. No, we can't fight alone. We can't fight with just what we have here in Brazil. We need to find an alternative for this. We need the United States. We need this information. I hope Elon Musk can clarify this, whether the money came here or not. I hope that guy Mike, that Mike Benz...
2:32:25 Speaker 04 I hope they show whether he was right about what he said or not. If you said he didn't exist, Bolsonaro would be the president of Brazil now. I truly believe that this is true. We just need proof, which I believe will come. After all, USAID, US... Well, after all, USAID money even went to terrorist groups in the Middle East.
2:32:51 Patrick Bet-David? So, as of right now, you can't run in 2026.
2:32:59 Speaker 04 Not at this moment. And what is the strategy?
2:33:03 Speaker 04 I only need to register my candidacy on the last day.
2:33:10 Speaker 04 Until then, if there's one thing I think and hope, it's that I will be drawing even larger crowds across my country, Brazil. Because I believe that I believe that running in elections without opposition is truly a denial of democracy.
2:33:26 Speaker 04 The United States doesn't deal with this matter of ineligibility.
2:33:31 Speaker 04 Now, if I'm to be convicted, then at least let it be a fair sentencing.
2:33:38 Speaker 04 There is no conviction for an attempted coup. I ask you all Americans, did anyone hear about any attempted coup at the end of 2022? Were there any tanks on the streets, any demonstrations? Do you think what happened on January 8th was an attempted coup? Poor souls. Those people were mothers who are now imprisoned and who sleep and wake up without seeing their children. Her younger daughters are arrested, accused of armed attempt to change the democratic rule of law. No weapon was found.
2:34:11 Speaker 04 Trump granted amnesty there. I hope it won't be necessary to wait for a future right-wing president to pardon these people. I hope that the parliament here in Brazil manages to approve. And the information I have at the moment is that we already have votes in the chamber to approve the amnesty for January 8th here in Brazil.
2:34:33 Patrick Bet-David? So, who has the authority to allow you to run in 2026? What needs to happen? Is it does it require millions of protesting outside? Does it require investigations of things being revealed? Does it require a whistleblower to come out? Does it require a cassow to use his influence to go to Alessandro and say, hey, guys, we can't be doing this? Does it require maybe the social media, Musk's role, Trump's role? What what needs to happen for you to be able to run in 2026?
2:35:10 Speaker 04 First, we did not lose our freedom of expression. You see, a positive factor for us was Trump. Trump buying Twitter. If it weren't for that, censorship would already be imposed here in Brazil.
2:35:25 Speaker 04 We have leaked audios here from Alexandre de Moraes's team of lawyers talking to the Superior Electoral Court. In the making of cases against the right, and the judge says, "There is no evidence, use your creativity." The judge says, "Minister Alexandre de Moraes wants Eduardo Bolsonaro." What does he want? He wants to target Eduardo Bolsonaro. "Since they cannot get to me, they target my son." Just as they tried to incriminate even my wife. Here, in this crazy poll, as if she were a big schemer that you don't even know she is. You know, she is a family person here. From P L Mulher, she is here, has good oratory skills.
2:36:11 Speaker 04 But you don't see her giving interviews out there. Right? Among other things, right? Audio from the whistleblower himself, saying that, "It's no use telling the truth." "The people from Alexandre de Moraes's federal police want me to tell them what they want." Leaked audio. What more is needed to prove what is happening here? Here in Brazil.
2:36:36 Speaker 04 Now, I also use another very important biblical passage, which says, "My people perished for lack of knowledge." "The more information reaches the population, we are creating a critical mass." That will serve to reduce the impetus of some people who dare to maintain or advance the dictatorship in Brazil.
2:37:00 Patrick Bet-David? Yeah, it was very important in America, what the youth did, on TikTok, on Instagram, on YouTube, on X. Everybody came together. Right now, Nicolas Ferreira, what he's doing with the youth, a lot of young people look up to him. Who are some other influencers that are coming in, that are willing to be vocal? When I think about a businessman, they were talking about Pablo, is it Marsal? Pablo Marsal, Pablo Marcal? The business owner? Marsal, yeah, he's got a big following. He's like the, some say the Tony Robbins, you know, somebody that people respect.
2:37:45 Patrick Bet-David? You have Nicolas, you have Pablo, maybe you have Neymar, Gustavo, what's Gustavo's last name? I think it's Lima, Gustavo Lima. Are these guys, are they gonna be able to play an important role to be able to get others to say, "We eventually need to do something about 2026"?
2:38:08 Speaker 04 It will be crucial. There are many names that don't have the projection that these have. But in the sum, they are much larger than these together too. We concluded here a great meeting of those influencers. It was fantastic. People from platforms were present. So we counted on this critical mass of influential people not to change, but to increase. And the information that we achieved our goal, which is to have a president who is not communist, who thinks about his people, his country.
2:38:51 Speaker 04 And understands that today, the world is connected. And with this strength, we really dreamed of better days. Nowadays, you have a problem in Brazil, it's not just steak, it's coffee, even eggs. Here, considering average price, a single egg has surpassed one real. And what does the government do now? I think that doesn't happen in the United States. Here, he wants you to put the expiration date, paint the expiration date on the egg. A big entrepreneur can manage, but it will increase their costs. For medium and smaller ones, it will greatly increase costs, or there will be no more eggs in Brazil. So the government only goes after...
2:39:33 Speaker 04 It focuses on what interests the big groups here in Brazil, and does not think about the population as a whole. So, in other words,
2:39:45 Speaker 04 these government measures, as you just saw Lula talking, when he talks about eggs, right? "I'm gonna eat turtle eggs, this is a crime." "I'm gonna eat ria eggs, this is also a crime." "I will switch to duck eggs, which are much more expensive than chicken eggs." It's someone who has no clue about anything. Just recently, he talked about the rise in fuel prices. "I don't eat oil, but I drink alcohol." What message is he trying to give? Can't you see if this guy is senile? Either that, or he is contributing increasingly to the lack of seriousness in dealing with the issues in Brazil, which medium and long-term consequence is the impoverishment of all of us Brazilians.
2:40:29 Patrick Bet-David? Yeah, I think we have the clip of Lula saying, drinking gasoline. I think this is the one, Rob, if you can play it.
2:40:39 Speaker 09 So I'm not defending Petrobras because I eat oil, I don't, because I drink gasoline, I don't, I drink other alcohol, but not gasoline.
2:40:49 Speaker 09 So you see, we have to take into account...
2:40:57 Patrick Bet-David? How did people react to that? How did the... How did his supporters react to that?
2:41:04 Speaker 04 With sarcasm, right? Not long ago, when the dollar... The dollar price increased a lot. He said, "The people, the poor don't eat dollars." I mean, today in Brazil, many things are dollarized. Mainly the inputs for agribusiness. In other words,
2:41:25 Speaker 04 it's embarrassing, right? I mean, seeing this guy speak in front of Americans. For example, he said last year that he would solve the Ukraine war with Russia. How? By having a beer with Putin and Zelensky. Having a beer. You see? You can't take this guy seriously. Now, in his wanderings, he is handing over Brazil to China, as mentioned. Lithium in Jequitinyonha Valley, uranium perhaps over there,
2:41:55 Speaker 04 in Santa Citeria. Okay? So he is giving Brazil away, right? Brazil is sinking with these exorbitant interest rates.
2:42:05 Speaker 04 And with him alone, our interest rates increased by more than 1 trillion reais. The amount of what we owe here, we reached 9 trillion reais. For Brazil, this is an almost unpayable debt.
2:42:21 Speaker 04 I can only ask God that we are able to reverse this situation one day.
2:42:26 Patrick Bet-David? I saw a number, a stat, Mr. President, from a Statista that shows every year, Brazil's had a net negative migration since 2005. Is this true? When you look at this here from '05 to 20 till today, every year, people leave Brazil. And when you got elected in 2018, it was minus 1.12, then it went to minus 0.62, then it was the lowest, meaning people were staying. So your policies caused Brazilians to want to stay here. It was the highest number since 2005, where they're like, "I would not try to stay here, then leave."
2:43:12 Speaker 04 Well, despite the pandemic that affected many people across the world, given my economic team, led by Paulo Guedes. Todos los individuos en este país tuvieron una oportunidad. Todos los individuos, sin ninguna excepción. Así que cuando se acerca una dictadura, los ricos salen, luego la clase media, luego los pobres. Estamos teniendo este ejemplo de Venezuela. Los pobres ahora están en pie, entrando en Brasil a través del estado de Roraima. Así que con nosotros, la gente comenzó a creer de nuevo. Creer en algo diferente, algo que nunca se hizo con ningún gobierno. Donde el presidente diría: "Mi ministro, por tal parte, es este uno",
2:43:56 Speaker 04 y entendió la cuestión. Diferentemente de lo que pasa hoy en día. Solo ves escándalos hoy en día. Incluso la prensa, que es mayormente favorable a Lula, pero no puede más esconder tantos escándalos que han estado sucediendo. No puedes hacer negocios en el esplanada aquí sin... sin briques, que es el término usado aquí para la corrupción. Desafortunadamente, así es como funcionan las cosas en este país. Y eso es peor para Lula, ya que tuvieron un ejemplo de lo que era nuestro gobierno. Así que en nuestro gobierno, no había esta gran preocupación por dejar Brasil. Lo contrario, la gente incluso llegó aquí.
2:44:39 Patrick Bet-David? Sí, es interesante, porque estaba viendo una entrevista con, creo que su nombre es Fernanda Torres, que acaba de hacer un película llamada "Estoy todavía aquí", y estaba en CNN siendo entrevistada por Christiane Amanpour, que creo que es una mujer persa que trabaja en CNN y ha estado allí por un tiempo. Y estaban luchando por este personaje, esta mujer que su esposo había muerto y tenía cinco hijos, y el hijo escribe el libro sobre la historia. Creo que es de lo que se trata la historia, no la he visto. Y en la entrevista, ella dice: "Nunca podría haber hecho esta película bajo Bolsonaro".
2:45:24 Speaker 04 This movie would have never been made. It would have only been made under Lula. What do you think about what she said about that movie would have never been made under you?
2:45:33 Speaker 00 This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.
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2:46:37 Speaker 04 If she wanted money from the government, she wasn't going to get it, just like no one did. Now, this movie.
2:46:47 Speaker 04 I was the only president who had a spending cap. Could not spend more than that and complied with it. Now, coincidentally, it's Rubens Paiva, right?
2:46:59 Speaker 04 Brazil has 5,600 municipalities. Where I grew up, El Dorado Polista is one of these. A small town, 5,000 inhabitants. The Paiva family had a farm there. These people, I was a kid and I would see them there. And on the date of May 8, 1970, a guerrilla fighter named Lamarcas passed by. And this guy, Lamarcas, was at a farm neighboring the Paiva family farm, fleeing from military repression. And I was there. This film had to start with me. It had to start with me explaining why Lamarcas... "Had a guerrilla base in Eldorado Paulista,
2:47:42 Speaker 04 neighboring the Paiva family's farm, the Caraita farm. In other words, the Paiva family advised him that this guy from Guerrilla La Marca had a guerrilla base in Eldorado Paulista, near his farm. I'm not here defending deaths or the execution of anyone. He truly disappeared. But start by telling the story as it should be told. Now, I wouldn't make the movie during my government. They made films, but without public money, known as the Ruane Law here in Brazil. They can get a fortune from businessmen, which is then deducted from income tax for
2:48:28 Speaker 04 making films, documentaries, music, for the culture. In my government, I cut that back a lot, because we couldn't spend money in this area when there were other, more important areas. It wasn't banned. They wanted public money. These left-wing people like to live off taxpayer money to survive."
2:48:53 Patrick Bet-David? You don't want to give it to him. So, Globo, when I look into Globo and what they've done, one of the things that there was criticism about is in America, we call it 1099 and W2, right? 1099 and W2. And I think in
2:49:12 Patrick Bet-David? in Brazil, you guys call it PJ and CLT, right? Pejota, which is like 1099, and CLT, which is W2. Did something happen with Globo where they were paying actors and actresses 1099, which is not allowed to do in Brazil, because 1099 in Brazil is different than the one in America? You can only pay part-timers 1099, not full-timers. Did Globo get caught paying some actors and actresseses on 1099?
2:49:45 Speaker 04 In 2018, during my campaign, all the candidates went to speak with the television networks. I went to speak with Globo at a certain point. And I talked about this case, CNPJ and PJ, right? Those who work under the CNPJ are expressions from the press, pay 10% tax. The others, as individuals, pay 27.5%. So, a way that the press used to hire people was under the corporate tax identification number. And these people paid less income tax. I reported this. And we tackled this issue. The tax has to be the same for everyone.
2:50:29 Speaker 04 Of course, the press didn't like that, the people in Globo. And that was another reason to attack me. But back then, as president, I solved this problem.
2:50:40 Patrick Bet-David? So you're not making friends with Globo?
2:50:42 Speaker 04 No, it is not that I'm not friends with them. I preach things like equality, mainly meritocracy and equality. I am against quotas, and they are the opposite of that. Even quotas for us, with certain customs, is already present in Brazil. The so-called woke agenda. Congratulations to Trump for not accepting the trans option on passports. It's either male or female, period. If you're unsure, go to another country without any problem.
2:51:18 Patrick Bet-David? When's the last time you did an interview with Globo? Have you done an interview with Globo?
2:51:23 Speaker 04 No, just back in 2018, before my campaign. After that, they never accepted again. The rare times they wanted to record. I don't record because they edit and put what they want or don't want, you see?
2:51:37 Patrick Bet-David? So I'm gonna ask you a personal question. This has nothing to do with politics. But for me, I know you're very good friends with Piquet, right? The driver, if I'm not mistaken.
2:51:49 Patrick Bet-David? Brazilian driver. How do you, Nelson Piquet? Did you like more Piquet or were you more Senna? That's a very controversial, that's friction, right?
2:51:59 Speaker 04 Well, I know that Nelson Piquet still keeps the rivalry going to this day, right?
2:52:05 Patrick Bet-David? That is.
2:52:06 Speaker 04 Of course, I get along very well with Nelson Piquet. And with Senna, I was never friends with him. He passed away in 1994, right? It's been a long time. I was still young, but he is still my idol. Out of all Brazilians, right? Just like Pele? But Piquet is also an idol too. He is less known, due to him being more of a quarrelsome, let's say. But a great Brazilian idol as well. I really enjoyed watching his duels there, with Nigel Mansell and Prost. At that time, I took pleasure in watching Formula One. Nowadays, I no longer watch it. And we also have a great one, Emerson Fittipaldi, here in Brazil,
2:52:51 Speaker 04 who was successful in the IndyCar in the United States.
2:52:55 Patrick Bet-David? Yeah. Last question before we wrap up, and again, I appreciate you giving us the three hours that you've given us, is your last message to Brazilians, if they're watching this. To some people that maybe have lost hope. In America, about a year and a half ago, a lot of people had lost hope. They didn't know what was gonna happen. They were worried Biden was gonna be president again, and the economy was gonna be the way it was gonna be, where wars in the Middle East, Israel, Hamas, Ukraine, Russia, they were very worried about themselves. And many industries taking hits, interest rates, inflation, it was disturbing. So hope was down for a lot of people. And then, all of a sudden, Trump kept increasing that hope, and now, obviously, accountability's
2:53:40 Patrick Bet-David? at the highest level. How hopeful are you, and what message can you give to the people that maybe have lost some hope?
2:53:50 Speaker 04 Look, things can always, always get worse. So, do not give up, do not lose heart, do not throw in the towel.
2:54:00 Speaker 04 Do not prejudge people as if they were all the same. There are people in Brazil who are just like you. For me, it would be much easier to be on the other side. No problem at all. Even if I had a truckload of accusations and corruption against me, I'm on the other side, on your side, the people's side. Just like the American people believed and voted for Trump, we are seeing what's happening there. Here, it won't be different. So, just forget about what they might do for me. There are many people that we hear, "We have shown to Brazil that can easily replace me. Some are even better than me." And thus being, we cannot abandon this great country we have called Brazil.
2:54:44 Speaker 04 No one in the world has what we have. We have half the territory of Russia, but here, there are many more resources, many more people, and even more, you know, besides those riches I mentioned. We are the country with the most beautiful women in the world. A Christian country. This is the promised land. Let's do our part. Let's not shy away, and let's not give up on our Brazil. I am here because I believe in God, and I believe in you. Thank you very much.
2:55:18 Patrick Bet-David? Amazing. Amazing message to them. And I appreciate your time. And you have a coin there.
2:55:25 Speaker 04 And I have a medal for you here. It's a joke that we have, right? The Three-I Medal. All men want this medal because, after all... Well, this medal I am giving you shows the spirit we have here, of joy, of being able to smile even though we are suffering. And considering the woke world, but we are leaving that behind. It's a great message that says, "From now on, you are undead, unflappable, and incorrigible."
2:56:03 Patrick Bet-David? So, "Imo rivel", "Imo brashval", and "Incomivel".
2:56:11 Speaker 04 Macho! Not gay!
2:56:16 Patrick Bet-David? Thank you so much for this coin. I appreciate you, Mr. President. This was fantastic. And it's really been a pleasure spending time with you. Thank you. Thanks.
2:56:24 Patrick Bet-David? Brazil, I'm so glad you're watching this. I want to tell you something here. Do you know what's the one thing tyrants or criminals in politics, in your government, you know what's the one thing they hate? Is for the people to have hope. It's been said, man and women can live forty days without food, four days without water, four minutes without air, but only four seconds without hope. When I was in Brazil, we had dinner with Nicolas Ferreira. And while we're having dinner, we gave him a shirt and we took a picture together. It's called "Future Looks Bright With Brazilian Flag." I would love nothing more than to see thousands and thousands of people in Brazil
2:57:07 Patrick Bet-David? to wear a shirt that says "Future Looks Bright With Your Flag." Just for Brazil, we made these custom shirts for you. If you want to inject the spirit of hope in Brazil, go place one order, two, three, buy it for your peers, your family. Click on the link below or go to vtmerch.com and sports your "Future Looks Bright" shirt in Brazil. Let the dictators, let the tyrants get so angry the fact that you are optimistic about the future.
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2:58:10 Speaker 10 We just moved into our new house and I didn't realize just how close we were to the neighbors. That's when my friend told me about blinds.com.
2:58:18 Speaker 11 Blinds.com isn't a medication, but it can improve how you feel about your home. Customers who shop at blinds.com experience excellent customer service, from consultation to installation. Side effects include increased privacy and better sleep. Talk to your partner today and see if blinds.com is right for you.
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Previous Joy Reid FIRED, Alec Baldwin vs Trump Impersonator, Crenshaw Threatens Tucker | PBD Podcast | Ep. 551 Next Epstein Files Release, Trump Gold Card Visa, Andrew Tate In US, Newsom's Podcast | PBD Podcast | Ep. 553 Page updated November 4, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated
