SERIAL KILLER: "BTK" Pt. 2

For more than 30 years, Dennis Rader terrorized Wichita, Kansas — living a double life as a devoted husband, church leader, and Scoutmaster by day, and a sadistic killer by night. As he taunted police and played a deadly game of cat and mouse, Rader’s arrogance would ultimately become his undoing. In this shocking conclusion, Vanessa and Dr. Engels break down the psychology of a man driven by control, secrecy, and a need for fame — and the digital mistake that finally ended his reign as the BTK Killer. Killer Minds is a Crime House Original Podcast, powered by PAVE Studios. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. For ad-free listening and early access to episodes, subscribe to Crime House+ on Apple Podcasts. Don’t miss out on all things Killer Minds! Instagram: @Crimehouse https://www.instagram.com/crimehouse/ TikTok: @Crimehouse https://www.tiktok.com/@crimehouse Facebook: @crimehousestudios https://www.facebook.com/crimehousestudios X: @crimehousemedia https://x.com/crimehousemedia YouTube: @crimehousestudios https://www.youtube.com/@crimehousestudios

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Vanessa Richardson?

  Hi, everyone. Before today's episode, there's another show I want to tell you about. It's called What the Fact with Connor Tomlinson from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum and Carter Roy. Every week, they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Plus, Connor's infectious energy that'll make you realize history is the most fascinating thing on earth. Follow What the Fact wherever you listen, or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  This is Crime House.

• 0:42Vanessa Richardson?

  We all have a flawed side of ourselves that only shows up every now and then. Maybe it's a bout of road rage when we're stuck in traffic, or a competitive side when we lose a game. They're little slips, and usually, we can laugh about them later. But Dennis Rader's hidden persona was anything but funny. Behind his mask of a husband, father, and church leader, he was driven by fantasies of torture, domination, and murder.

• 1:26Vanessa Richardson?

  The human mind is powerful. It shapes how we think, feel, love, and hate. But sometimes, it drives people to commit the unthinkable. This is Killer Minds, a Crime House original. I'm Vanessa Richardson.

• 1:41Tristin Engels?

  And I'm Dr. Tristin Engels. Every Monday and Thursday, we uncover the darkest minds in history, analyzing what makes a killer.

• 1:50Vanessa Richardson?

  Crime House is made possible by you. Follow Killer Minds and subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts for ad-free, early access to each two-part series. And if you can't get enough true crime, go search and follow Crime House Daily, our team's twice-a-day show bringing you breaking cases, updates, and unbelievable stories from the world of crime that are happening right now. Before we get started, be advised, this episode contains discussion of suicide, sexual violence, and murder.

• 2:22Vanessa Richardson?

  Today, we conclude our deep dive on Dennis Rader, who named himself BTK after his own methods, "Find, Torture, and Kill." Dennis evaded capture for over 30 years, until his own arrogance finally brought him down.

• 2:39Tristin Engels?

  As Vanessa goes through this story, I'll be talking about things like: Why Dennis could control the mask he wore, but not his urge to kill? How his deadly compulsion sometimes surfaced unexpectedly? And how his need to toy with police caused him to fall into a trap of his own making.

• 2:58Vanessa Richardson?

  And, as always, we'll be asking the question: What makes a killer?

• 3:08Vanessa Richardson?

  In January of 1974, in Wichita, Kansas, 28-year-old Dennis Rader claimed the lives of his first four victims: Joseph and Julie Otero, their nine-year-old son, Joseph Jr., and their 11-year-old daughter, Josephine, who'd been Dennis's main target. Dennis gratified himself sexually while he watched Josephine die by asphyxiation. The older Otero children had found their parents and siblings when they arrived home from school. And the next day, news of the murders was everywhere. Dennis watched with his wife, Paula, as if he were just another worried citizen who couldn't fathom the violence that had occurred in their own town.

• 3:52Vanessa Richardson?

  Dennis knew he would have to play the role of a normal, innocent man. But what he didn't expect was the pounding in his head, like pressure was building inside his skull. Killing the Oteros wasn't the release he thought it would be. If anything, it left him restless and hungry for more. But for now, he had to lay low and act normal. Dennis referred to his ability to shift between roles as "cubing." He only showed people the side of the cube he wanted them to see. As days and weeks went by after the murders, and no police ever came looking for him, Dennis's life went back to normal. He started taking part-time classes in criminal justice

• 4:35Vanessa Richardson?

  at Wichita State University while he looked for a new job. But Dennis wasn't trying to learn these skills for work. He wanted to learn how to be a better criminal, and his urges were only growing louder.

• 4:49Tristin Engels?

  Killers like Dennis often believe that carrying out the fantasy will quiet the obsession and that tension, like the pounding in the head that's building up, will just disappear. But what actually happens is the opposite. The act provides a momentary high, an intense surge of adrenaline, control, and arousal, followed by an equally intense crash and a momentary relief. But that emotional crash creates an emptiness that the mind rushes to fill again. And the only thing that seems to restore that sense of power for them is returning to the fantasy or planning the next act. In this way, each offense doesn't resolve the compulsion, it reinforces it. The brain learns that violence or domination is the only reliable way to achieve that level of stimulation or control.

• 5:34Tristin Engels?

  It's similar to addiction, like I talked about in episode one, like building a tolerance. You need to do more and more to get the same rush again. So realistically, these urges can be temporarily silenced, but not really satisfied. Other serial killers that come to mind who expressed similar experiences with regard to tension building or pounding in the head include Kemper, Bundy, and Dahmer.

• 5:58Vanessa Richardson?

  How does all of this behavior relate to or affect Dennis's idea of "cubing," that word he made up?

• 6:05Tristin Engels?

  Okay, so cubing is about control. It's his way of compartmentalizing his life. Every side of the cube allowed him to isolate and revisit pieces of his compulsion in a structured and ritualized way. When he had the emotional crash after killing the Otero family, cubing likely became his way of managing the emptiness that followed. But it's also about presentation. Dennis became skilled at mastering the mask of sanity, which is the ability to appear Rational, empathetic, and even an upstanding pro-social citizen. It's his way of being a chameleon and blending in. He's already showing a lot of aspects of that and has been for some time throughout his life with how he tries to blend in within his community, with his church, and his wife,

• 6:49Tristin Engels?

  Paula, especially with how he reacted to the Otero deaths on the news in front of her. So, cubing also helped him separate his worlds where he can act on his dark impulses in one and present an illusion of normalcy in another.

• 7:05Vanessa Richardson?

  So, just two months after committing a quadruple murder, Dennis Rader was ready for a new victim. And one day, he noticed a petite blonde checking her mailbox. Her name was Catherine Bright, and she was 21 years old. Dennis followed Catherine home and started scoping out her house to see if she had a husband or boyfriend. He wanted to strike when she was alone and defenseless. After weeks of watching Catherine, Dennis determined that she lived alone and was rarely with other men. So, on April 4th, 1974, about four months after killing the Oteros, he loaded his so-called "hit kit" into his car, then drove to Catherine's neighborhood when he knew she wouldn't be home.

• 7:50Vanessa Richardson?

  Once he was at her house, he broke in through the back door by shattering the glass and waited for her to return. But when she did, she was with her 19-year-old brother, Kevin. Dennis couldn't let his plan be thwarted. Just like he did with the Oteros, he made up a story to lower his threat level. He said he was a fugitive on the run and all he wanted was money and a car. He forced Kevin to tie Catherine up in her bedroom. After that, Dennis bound Kevin in a different part of the house and ripped the phone line from the wall. Dennis attempted to strangle Kevin first, using a pair of pantyhose, but Kevin fought back and eventually broke free.

• 8:32Vanessa Richardson?

  When he did, Dennis pulled out his gun and shot him in the head. Then, he moved on to Catherine's room and began strangling her.

• 8:43Vanessa Richardson?

  Little did he know, Kevin was still alive. The bullet had only grazed him. And while Dennis strangled Catherine, he heard Kevin stirring in the other room. So he went back out to where he had left him and shot him a second time. Then Dennis returned to Catherine's room, pulled out a knife, and stabbed her in the torso 11 times, until she was dead. As he did this, Dennis heard the front door open. Kevin had escaped again. He was running down the street yelling for help. Dennis had to get out of there. He grabbed his belongings, as well as Catherine's driver's license, and fled. On the news the next day,

• 9:25Vanessa Richardson?

  Dennis learned that Catherine was still alive by the time the first responders had reached her, but that she later died in surgery. At the same time, Kevin provided the police with a detailed description of the attacker, and a sketch was published in the local newspaper. When Dennis saw it, he smirked. It was his own face staring back at him. But by now, Dennis was so good at playing the part of an unsuspecting neighbor, no one suspected a thing.

• 9:55Tristin Engels?

  So Dennis had been getting a psychological thrill from secrecy for years, which we've been outlining. And seeing his sketch in the paper wasn't any different from that. It was just magnified. This was the ultimate version of his risky behavior. He's been sneaking around, taking trophies, committing acts in public while slightly hidden. But now, his alter ego had made, literally, the front page. And that's validation. It confirmed that a secret identity had power. It's being acknowledged publicly, yet it's still remained hidden. So this was reassuring him that his system, his double life, his cubing, his mask of sanity, was effective. Even with his mistakes, and he's made some pretty big ones, he was still in control.

• 10:40Tristin Engels?

  So for Dennis, this moment didn't cause fear, it created confidence. And we are starting to see that he likes and craves recognition. He took this as proof that he could outsmart everyone, and this was a big part of the thrill now.

• 10:56Vanessa Richardson?

  Dennis now felt he had the freedom to keep doing whatever he wanted, especially because police didn't even realize the Otero and Bright murders were connected. On paper, the crimes looked extremely different. The Oteros had been strangled, while Catherine had been stabbed and Kevin was shot. Investigators assumed they were looking at two different killers. That disconnect fueled Dennis's thrill. However, it also started to bother him. By October of 1974, eight months after Catherine's murder, the story was still circulating in the news. And Dennis decided he wanted a little credit.

• 11:36Vanessa Richardson?

  That feeling only worsened after the media announced that suspects were in custody for the Otero murders. But Dennis wanted everyone to know that he was still out there. So he sat down at his typewriter and wrote a letter describing both crime scenes, including details that hadn't been released to the public. He said the monster inside him couldn't be controlled. Then Dennis signed off with a name that would go on to live in infamy: BTK, which stood for Bind, Torture, Kill. Next, Dennis slipped the letter into a book at the library and called a reporter at the Wichita Eagle newspaper to tip them off. Soon, the letter was making headlines.

• 12:20Vanessa Richardson?

  Even though they only printed the non-gruesome details, Dennis was satisfied. He was finally getting the recognition he wanted.

• 12:29Tristin Engels?

  For some offenders, secrecy fuels the fantasy, but recognition validates it, and this applies to Dennis. He wants to remain hidden, but also craves acknowledgement for what he did. At this point, that conflict became central to his identity. He'd spent years crafting this private persona, but over time, the secrecy now alone isn't enough. The longer he went unnoticed, the more that would begin to affect his ego, his need for control and superiority. So for him, being forgotten is worse than being caught. So sending letters, teasing police... Inserting himself into the investigation was likely out of compulsion. He also branded himself, which really highlights narcissistic grandiosity.

• 13:13Tristin Engels?

  It's similar to the Zodiac Killer, who branded himself as well. This is not someone that's content fully with anonymity. He wants an identity, he wants a legacy, and he wants mythology. The name he gave himself alone is dehumanizing, which is exactly how he viewed his victims. And in the end, that craving for recognition becomes his undoing, which is often the case for offenders like him. Their need to be remembered outweighs their instinct for survival.

• 13:41Vanessa Richardson?

  Dennis's letter not only allowed him to enjoy both secrecy and recognition, it also proved to police that the real Otero murderer was still out there, and that Wichita now had a serial killer on their hands. The community was terrified. Families scrambled to install alarm systems, which also helped Dennis enjoy the effect he was having on people. Because in November of 1974, 29-year-old Dennis got a job at ADT, installing security systems in the very homes and businesses people hoped to protect from him. He had a front row seat to the city's panic and fear, and he loved it.

• 14:23Vanessa Richardson?

  Around the same time, Dennis got some more welcome news. Paula was pregnant with their first child. On July 26, 1975, Dennis's son Brian was born. Dennis now had yet another side to his cube: doting father. For the next couple of years, he threw himself into being a parent.

• 14:46Vanessa Richardson?

  But eventually, Dennis was craving the thrill of another murder. In March of 1977, he spotted a young boy at the park. Dennis followed the boy home so he could hopefully get a glimpse of his mother. When he knocked on the boy's front door, his mother Shirley answered. Dennis told Shirley he was a private investigator. Before Shirley could ask any more questions, he forced his way inside. It was more spur of the moment than usual, but by now Dennis was comfortable improvising. Once inside the house, Dennis spotted two more children, which he used to his advantage. He told Shirley that he wouldn't hurt her children if she cooperated. Shirley agreed, and Dennis locked the kids in a bathroom.

• 15:33Vanessa Richardson?

  Then Dennis tied Shirley to her bed and put a bag over her head. He strangled her while her children screamed. Eventually, she stopped breathing. It was all Dennis needed to feel satiated. Afterward, Dennis kept the children locked in the bathroom and left. They eventually escaped through a window and found help. They even gave police a description of the home intruder, but it didn't lead anywhere. By now, Dennis felt untouchable, and that confidence carried him straight to his next target, a woman named Nancy Fox. Dennis stalked Nancy for weeks. This time, he wanted a bit more of a challenge than what he had with Shirley.

• 16:17Vanessa Richardson?

  He wanted to break into Nancy's home without being detected. He practiced breaking through a window in his own backyard shed until he was sure he could do it. Finally, on December 8, 1977, nine months after killing Shirley, Dennis arrived at Nancy's house and made it inside without her noticing what was happening. Then he found her, pulled out a belt, and strangled her with it. As Nancy took her final breaths, Dennis whispered in her ear, "I'm BTK." Then Dennis pleasured himself into her nightgown, stole her driver's license and some of her jewelry, then poured himself a glass of water from the kitchen,

• 17:02Vanessa Richardson?

  just like he'd done after killing the Otero's. The next day, he waited for the story to hit the news, but there was nothing. Nancy lived alone, and no one had found her yet. Dennis couldn't go another minute without getting some credit for the attack, so he picked up the phone and carried out his most brazen move yet.

• 17:31Speaker 03

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• 18:15Speaker 03

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• 18:34Vanessa Richardson?

  Happy Halloween, Crime House listeners. I'm Vanessa Richardson. Did you know horror films like Abigail and Sinister were based on true stories? Join me every Sunday this month on Crime House 24/7 for Crime House of Horrors, where I dive into four stories behind some of our favorite scary movies. From Abigail, The Autopsy of Jane Doe, Sinister, and The Taking of Deborah Logan, you'll find one thing in common: the truth is scarier than fiction. Listen every Sunday on Crime House 24/7 or join Crime House Plus for all four right now, ad-free. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or at crimehouseplus.com.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  Did you know a volcano once blocked out the sun and accidentally gave us Frankenstein? Or that the most feared pirate in the Atlantic, the man who terrorized an entire ocean, may never have actually killed anyone? Hi, I'm Connor Tomlinson. You might know me from Love on the Spectrum. History is my thing and has been my whole life. And I'm Carter Roy, and this is What the Fact. Every week, we take three of the wildest true things ever recorded and tell you the whole story behind them. The facts that sound made up, the stories that got buried, the moments that changed everything. Carter brings the history. Connor brings the facts, the tangents, and the occasional British accent. Pip, pip. The wildest stuff is real.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  And the real stuff is wilder than you think. New episodes every Wednesday. Follow What the Fact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or subscribe on YouTube at WhatTheFactPod.

• 20:25Vanessa Richardson?

  After killing Nancy Fox in December of 1977, 32-year-old Dennis Rader decided he couldn't wait for police to find the body, so he decided to break the news to them himself. He found a payphone and dialed the station. When someone finally picked up, Dennis pressed a handkerchief to the receiver to disguise his voice. He calmly confessed to the murder and told officers where to go and exactly what they would find inside Nancy's house. Officers rushed to the scene and discovered exactly what the mystery caller had promised. But they found something else, too. Nancy's nightgown, including a sample of the killer's DNA.

• 21:10Vanessa Richardson?

  The only problem was that in 1977, DNA analysis was still in its infancy. Without the killer's profile already in a database, it was useless.

• 21:21Vanessa Richardson?

  The strongest evidence they had was the phone call from the killer himself. Investigators hoped someone out there might be able to identify the voice, so they released the recording to the public, broadcasting it across Wichita. But no one recognized it, not even Paula Rader, who listened to it with Dennis sitting right beside her. By this point, Dennis was getting just as much of a rush from playing cat and mouse with the police as he did from the murders themselves. But when the 1977 holiday season rolled around, he had to put a pause on his thrills, because Paula was pregnant again. This time, they were expecting a little girl.

• 22:05Vanessa Richardson?

  Dennis was elated, and for a while, he barely thought about killing anyone.

• 22:11Tristin Engels?

  Dennis was atypical, because he could be dormant for such a long time. Not only was he able to be dormant for years while he was active, but he was inactive and dormant for 14 years straight. But that wasn't because he'd mastered self-control. It was because he'd built a life that gave him structure and distractions strong enough to contain his impulses. When he was busy with his family, church, or work, those routines anchored him, keeping his compulsions from spilling out. But that containment isn't the same as genuine control. True self-control comes from awareness, insight, and the ability to regulate behavior. Dennis didn't have that. His urges were still active, he just redirected them. During those dormant periods,

• 22:56Tristin Engels?

  what he did was he sustained himself through elaborate fantasies, journaling, and ritualized self-gratification using trophies he collected from victims, essentially keeping the fantasy alive and private. So the pathology never went away, it just went dormant.

• 23:14Vanessa Richardson?

  Are there any other serial killers who had an unusually long dormant period like this?

• 23:20Tristin Engels?

  The only one that I can think of is Lonny David Franklin Jr., who is known as the Grim Sleeper. He got his name for his 14-year dormant period. He was active from 1984 to 1988 and then dormant until 2002, when he struck again. And his last known victim was in 2007 until he was caught in 2010 through DNA from his own son. But more likely than not, family obligations, moving, incarceration, maybe even sickness or injury, or other similar outlets contributed to his ability to contain for as long as he did.

• 23:55Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, Dennis always had an outlet for his dark urges, whether it was self-asphyxiation, drawing dirty photos of his victims, or stalking women. Soon, he found another pastime as well: writing poetry. Dennis started drafting poems about his crimes, one of which he titled Shirley Locks. But he seemed to get so caught up in the enjoyment of it, he was careless about where he left them. One day in 1978, Paula stumbled upon a poem that was full of language about sex and death. When she asked Dennis about it, he claimed it was a school assignment. He was a criminal justice major, after all. His excuse seemed to work, and Paula dropped the subject.

• 24:40Vanessa Richardson?

  But it seems like Dennis realized he liked having readers. So he mailed his original poem about Shirley to the Wichita Eagle. However, unlike the letter he left in the library, they didn't print it, likely because of how graphic it was. The rejection upset Dennis so much, it brought his urge to kill back to the surface. In April of 1979, 34-year-old Dennis began stalking a 63-year-old woman named Anna Williams. By the end of that month, Dennis broke into Anna's house and waited for her to come home. But after a while, she still didn't return. So Dennis stole some of her jewelry and left.

• 25:25Tristin Engels?

  Clinically, Dennis is also atypical here in that his victim selection and his method of killing vary. I mean, he talked about wanting to find the perfect victim, but can we even pinpoint what the perfect victim actually is? What the characteristics are? The age ranges were all different. It's very interesting because he doesn't fit any one like one clinical victim profile.

• 25:48Vanessa Richardson?

  Weeks later, Dennis sent Anna a package in the mail containing some of the stolen items, along with a crude drawing of what he wished he could have done to her. Anna alerted the police, and even though Dennis had mailed the package from a post office, no one traced it back to him. Dennis was feeling more powerful than ever. However, his urges waned a few weeks later when Paula gave birth to their third child, a daughter named Carrie. Once again, Dennis was busy and in the throes of having a newborn and a toddler. However, his sexual fantasies were still just as strong as ever, and one day Paula caught him practicing self-bondage. She was completely distraught at the sight.

• 26:33Vanessa Richardson?

  Dennis tried to make excuses, but Paula threatened him with divorce if he ever did it again.

• 26:38Tristin Engels?

  So let's talk about that. Dennis's shame in that moment actually makes perfect psychological sense when you understand how central secrecy was to his identity. His paraphilias had always existed in a private, compartmentalized world that he carefully protected. That secrecy is what allowed him to function in public while nurturing his compulsions in private. Being caught by his wife shattered that separation. It wasn't embarrassment, it was exposure. His secret self, the one that gave him power, excitement, and control, had suddenly been seen by someone from his "normal" life, and that creates an intense internal conflict

• 27:19Tristin Engels?

  for someone like Dennis who depends on compartmentalization to keep the mask intact. It's also important to note that sexual deviance, when linked to humiliation and control, is like a built-in contradiction. The same act that excites can also shame. So in that moment, he wasn't just caught doing something taboo, he was forced to face the reality that the two worlds he'd kept separate were now colliding. The loss of control is, for someone like him, the deepest kind of shame. So now, people might be wondering, well, didn't he like to be risky with hidden acts in public? Didn't he get a thrill from the idea that he might get caught? Yes. But those were all planned. It was on his terms with strangers.

• 28:02Tristin Engels?

  That kind of risk fed his fantasy because he controlled every variable. This was different. He didn't expect or plan for this. This was his wife, the person he'd built his mask around, the person who believed he was stable, moral, and safe. And with his sketch in the paper and his voice being aired, this was truly threatening for him.

• 28:24Vanessa Richardson?

  Dennis promised Paula he would stop, but that was a lie. He just worked harder to hide what he was doing. One way he did that was by diving headfirst into family life. Dennis became a volunteer Cub Scout leader for his son Brian's troupe. This seemed to keep him at bay for a while, but when his urges returned in 1985, more than seven and a half years after his last murder, 40-year-old Dennis used his position as a Cub Scout leader to carry out his attack. He set his sights on his own neighbor, 53-year-old Maureen Hedge. Targeting someone so close to home was a risky move, but Maureen was petite, and she lived alone. Plus, as a way to avoid getting caught,

• 29:07Vanessa Richardson?

  Dennis planned the attack around a Cub Scout campout. That way, he'd have an alibi. On April 26th, he told the other leaders he had a headache and slipped away from camp. Then Dennis called a taxi and asked to be dropped off somewhere near Maureen's house. He broke in and waited in her closet until she came home. Once Maureen was asleep in bed, Dennis made his move. He jumped on top of her and strangled her to death. Afterward, he took her keys, driver's license, jewelry, and a pair of her underwear. He also stripped her clothes and put handcuffs on her. Then Dennis did something unprecedented.

• 29:51Vanessa Richardson?

  He wrapped Maureen's body in a plastic sheet and placed her in the trunk of her own car. He then drove to his church, brought her body inside, and took sexually provocative photos of her.

• 30:05Tristin Engels?

  Okay, so let's break down this new development and the religious symbolism. Religion for Dennis wasn't about spirituality, it was about structure and image. His role in the church reinforced his mask of sanity and the respectable rule-following citizen who kept everything in order. That public image gave him legitimacy in the community and a shield. Now on to the symbolism. By desecrating a sacred space, he was asserting absolute dominance, not only over his victim, but over the very moral code he pretended to live by. It was a way to merge his two identities, Dennis, the church leader, and BTK, the killer. His fantasy life was now invading the last space that he'd kept private.

• 30:48Tristin Engels?

  It suggests that the compartments he'd relied on for control were breaking down, and it takes enormous amount of mental energy to maintain that level of compartmentalization for as long as he has. And the more he indulged his fantasies, the harder it was to really return to his, quote, "normal self." And it's also no coincidence that this happens shortly after a part of his true self was seen by his wife Paula. That internal loss of secrecy, however small or slight it might have been compared to everything he truly is hiding, can make compulsion stronger and break down psychological boundaries. Parts of his secrets likely feel contaminated, and so he needs to compensate for that by

• 31:31Tristin Engels?

  doing a riskier, more transgressive act to reclaim power in more symbolic ways, which to Dennis was this.

• 31:39Vanessa Richardson?

  Do you think Dennis was always going to escalate this way?

• 31:42Tristin Engels?

  In all likelihood, yes. This follows a very familiar pattern in fantasy-driven offenders, which is you start by secrecy, fantasy, ritual, and then action. We've seen similar trajectories before. I mean, Ted Bundy's an example. He started with charm and manipulation, but over time, his need for control deepened into trophy collecting and necrophilia. He even started giving his real name to victims. He didn't use religious symbolism like Dennis did, but the psychological drive was the same. It was the pursuit of symbolic mastery, which is domination, possession, and total control. For Dennis, the timing may have been influenced by stress and feeling exposed, but the overall trajectory was actually clinically expected.

• 32:26Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, whatever Dennis's motives were, he seemed to have a plan. When he was done taking photographs, he put Maureen back into the trunk of his car, then drove to a ditch and disposed of her body there. The sun wasn't even up by the time he returned to his tent, so no one noticed he was gone. However, Dennis still wanted some recognition. The next day, he was glued to the news, but there was nothing about Maureen. Dennis assumed her body hadn't been found yet, and soon, he realized that worked in his favor, because he had tied a cord around Maureen's neck but forgot to remove it before he discarded her body. He didn't want it to tie him to her murder, or anyone else's,

• 33:10Vanessa Richardson?

  so that evening, he went back to her body and removed the cord. Dennis's urge to kill was calmed for another year, until September 16, 1986, when it bubbled to the surface again. During his lunch break at work, he entered the home of 28-year-old Vicky Wegerly, posing as a telephone repairman. Dennis had been stalking Vicky for three weeks. Now, he strangled her while her infant sat in a playpen nearby. Vicky fought back relentlessly, but to no avail. Soon, she was dead. Dennis then stole her car and drove off.

• 33:50Vanessa Richardson?

  Moments later, Vicky's husband walked into the house and found her body. Despite her husband's police report and the ensuing investigation, Dennis stayed off police radar for the next few years. During that time, DNA analysis advanced, but Dennis still wasn't in any databases, so investigators never caught on to him. However, he soon had other problems to worry about. Dennis also lost his job at ADT and began working for the Census Bureau, verifying home addresses. Even though it gave him a good cover to approach people's houses without suspicion, he found the work tedious and uninteresting.

• 34:32Vanessa Richardson?

  Eventually, in 1991, 45-year-old Dennis's idle hands pushed him to strike again. In January of that year, he targeted a 62-year-old widow named Dolores Davis, who he'd been watching for months. Like before, he used a Boy Scout camping trip as his cover. On January 19th, Dennis left camp, then broke into Dolores's home, where he handcuffed her and strangled her with pantyhose. Then he took her jewelry box and driver's license. Finally, he dumped her body under the bridge, where he used to practice self bondage when he was younger. In the chaos of moving Dolores's body, Dennis realized his gun was missing.

• 35:16Vanessa Richardson?

  He drove her car back to her house and found it inside. By morning, Dennis was back at camp, singing songs, starting campfires, and playing the role of scout leader, like nothing had happened.

• 35:31Tristin Engels?

  So Dennis's increasing boldness here is a reflection of habituation. The longer he got away with his crimes, the more invincible he felt. He wasn't afraid of consequences. In fact, he wasn't really afraid at all. He genuinely believed he could control everything, even when he made seemingly careless mistakes, like leaving forensic evidence behind and having to return to the scene. And even with years between murders, his confidence didn't fade, it strengthened. I'm starting to think that those long dormant periods became part of his ritual. Whether through genuine restraint or a kind of placebo effect, the delay itself may have heightened the eventual gratification. For someone as ritualistic as Dennis, even waiting can become part of the fantasy,

• 36:15Tristin Engels?

  because the anticipation can become a form of control too. And we know how much Dennis needs to feel in control. So mastery over his ability to restrain may have started to become part of the thrill as well.

• 36:28Vanessa Richardson?

  Do you think Dennis really thought he was too smart for the police? Or was he just testing limits?

• 36:33Tristin Engels?

  I think it's likely both. I mean, Dennis absolutely believed he was too smart, clever for police. He had decades of reinforcement to prove it. He'd been taunting them. His sketch was in papers. His voice was aired. He still wasn't caught. That will certainly strengthen the belief of any highly narcissistic individual, that they're untouchable. At the same time, there's a clear element of limit testing. And he's been testing his limits personally for decades, starting with self bonded rituals in public spaces, and even privately in the home he shared with his wife, to playing those sort of cat and mouse games. That's for psychological gratification, and it comes from arrogance.

• 37:14Vanessa Richardson?

  It seems like Dennis was throwing caution to the wind completely, because the following night, he slipped away from camp again to visit Dolores's body. To avoid being recognized, he stopped at a highway rest stop to change his clothes. However, in an effort to catch BTK, patrol officers had begun keeping an eye out for suspicious behavior. While at the rest stop, an officer noticed Dennis changing his clothes and found it suspicious. So he approached him and asked what he was doing. Dennis was able to talk his way out of any real suspicion. However, the officer still took down his name and license plate number. The incident left Dennis rattled. Instead of going back to Dolores's body,

• 37:58Vanessa Richardson?

  he ditched the trophies he took from her and returned to camp. After that, things continued to go downhill for Dennis. His new job was so unfulfilling, he became depressed. He even considered taking his own life. But within a few months, by May of 1991, things turned around. Dennis found a new job as a city compliance officer enforcing codes and ordinances. He enjoyed the sense of authority and control it gave him. Throughout the 1990s, Dennis appeared to be a model citizen. He stayed busy as a scout leader and became president of his church. Even though he continued reading bondage magazines and stalking women in passing,

• 38:42Vanessa Richardson?

  he didn't strike again. For a while, it seemed like BTK was gone. But as the new millennium rolled around, it started to sink in for Dennis that he was getting older and no one knew his name the way they knew Ted Bundy, for example. He hadn't reached that level of infamy, and it aided him. Feeling too old to kill but still desperate for recognition, Dennis turned back to his old game of cat and mouse with the police. But this time, he couldn't outsmart them.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  The moment a body is found, the clock starts ticking. Forty-eight hours. That's how long detectives have before the trail begins to go cold. From A&E and Crime House, this is the official podcast from the famous true crime series, The First Forty-Eight. Step inside the critical window, the interrogations, the dead ends, and the breakthroughs that crack a case wide open. I'm Carter Roy. Each week, I revisit a landmark homicide investigation with the depth you know and immersive, long-form storytelling built for your ears. Real detectives, real cases, real stakes.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  This is The First Forty-Eight. New episodes every Thursday. Listen to and follow The First Forty-Eight on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

• 40:22Vanessa Richardson?

  By March of 2004, 58-year-old Dennis Rader decided 13 years of silence was enough. He was getting older, and he knew he couldn't pull off a murder the way he once could. At the same time, the fantasies that used to keep him satisfied weren't cutting it anymore. What he wanted now was recognition. He believed BTK deserved infamy. So after reading a 30th anniversary write-up on the unsolved Otero murders in the Wichita Eagle on March 19, 2004, Dennis broke his silence. He mailed a package to the newspaper's office containing Vicky Wegerly's driver's license

• 41:05Vanessa Richardson?

  and a few grisly photos from that 1986 crime scene, things only the killer could have gotten his hands on. It was BTK's way of planting his flag and reminding Wichita that he was still out there. But Dennis was becoming too cavalier.

• 41:23Vanessa Richardson?

  For the rest of 2004, Dennis sent similar packages and letters to local TV stations, newspapers, and even the police. Sometimes the letters were written in code, like the Zodiac killers. Others contained drawings of his victims and sometimes Barbie dolls with nooses around their necks that resembled the victims. Police decided to take advantage of BTK's sudden spike in messages. Since he'd corresponded with the Wichita Eagle in the past, they started placing ads in the paper as a means of communicating with him. They let him know each time they received one of his packages by responding in similar code. That way, the ads looked normal to unsuspecting readers.

• 42:07Vanessa Richardson?

  For Dennis, the thrill was exhilarating. BTK was officially back.

• 42:14Tristin Engels?

  As offenders like Dennis age, the need for stimulation doesn't vanish. It transforms. When physical dominance is no longer possible in the ways it once was, or in ways that don't expose them to risk, they often shift towards psychological control, which can be just as gratifying, if not more. Dennis had long mastered psychological dominance. Manipulation and control were his trademarks. Renewing interest in their case like this is often done for a few reasons. First, if there are sadistic tendencies, reigniting fear, whether in the public or in law enforcement, can be thrilling. It's not just about violence, it's about the pleasure of power. Being remembered, feared, or even mythologized becomes its own form of dominance.

• 42:58Tristin Engels?

  Second, if there are traits of narcissism and grandiosity, the idea of being forgotten, silenced, or overshadowed by another more infamous killer can feel intolerable. That's why in later years, some offenders resurface like this and taunt investigators or revisit their crimes, or, after conviction, still seek attention and still give interviews. At that point, it's not about killing, it's about identity preservation. The control they once exercised through violence, they now maintain through visibility in whatever way they can. So for Dennis, he wanted to control how he'd be remembered.

• 43:35Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, whatever it was that Dennis was chasing, he was getting too cocky, because soon, he stumbled into a trap of his own making. Dennis's downfall began that summer, when he was elected president of Christ Lutheran Church. By that point, he'd grown tired of writing letters. Over the past few years, Dennis had learned to use computers well enough to handle simple tasks. So he asked the police if he could send them evidence on a floppy disk instead, without being tracked. The police couldn't let BTK get away from them once again, so they lied and said they couldn't track him that way. Dennis took them at their word, and his next package included a floppy disk

• 44:19Vanessa Richardson?

  with some test documents on it, just to make sure it worked. But the thing is, he didn't truly understand how digital footprints worked. As soon as the police received the disk, their computer forensics team began analyzing the contents. As they restored deleted metadata, they discovered that the computer the files came from belonged to Christ Lutheran Church in Wichita. Then, they saw a username: Dennis. From there, they went to the church's website and learned that their president was named Dennis Rader. Investigators knew they needed to act fast. They also knew DNA evidence would be their best shot at an arrest. So, they subpoenaed a blood sample from a medical office

• 45:04Vanessa Richardson?

  where Dennis's daughter, Carrie, had recently had a procedure and compared it to evidence from the crime scenes. While waiting for the results, investigators kept Dennis under constant surveillance. After all those years of hunting others, he had unknowingly become the target.

• 45:24Vanessa Richardson?

  Finally, when the DNA results came back, the truth was undeniable. Dennis Rader was the BTK killer. Police then visited the church and spoke to the pastor, who showed them the computer. Detectives logged in and found the very messages BTK had sent them.

• 45:44Vanessa Richardson?

  With DNA and digital evidence in hand, police had everything they needed. On February 25, 2005, Dennis kissed Paula goodbye as he left for work. He planned to come home for lunch, like he always did, but when his break rolled around, instead of a quiet drive back to his house, he was pulled over by a convoy of police, including a tank. When they asked if he knew why he was being arrested, Dennis smirked and said he, quote, "had his suspicions."

• 46:19Tristin Engels?

  So this is exactly what I meant when I said their need to be remembered outweighs their instinct for survival. His arrogance blinded him. Part of that is likely due, like I said, to the fact that he'd gotten away with so much for over 30 years. Like we covered, he had careless mistakes throughout his crimes, and each time he got away with it, it only reinforced this belief that he was untouchable. And now, sending the floppy disk suggests that he really did believe that he was smarter than police even now. So his compulsion to be seen and to make sure that the BTK legacy lived on, a name he coined himself, was simply stronger than his instinct for self-preservation. And that's the irony with narcissistic offenders.

• 46:59Vanessa Richardson?

  What does his reaction to being arrested, that cockiness, say about his mindset at the time?

• 47:05Tristin Engels?

  I think that says that this was all about performance and ego preservation, not self-preservation, ego preservation. BTK's legacy and self-made mythology were central to Dennis's identity. So even in that moment, he was performing the part he'd created. Showing shock or fear would have shattered that illusion, and that would have been intolerable for him. Admitting surprise would mean acknowledging weakness, or worse, that he'd been outsmarted by the very people he believed he was superior to. So for someone whose entire sense of power depended on control, that's just not acceptable. And that's exactly why he smirked in that way and said what he said.

• 47:46Vanessa Richardson?

  When Dennis Rader was finally arrested, he still tried to play his usual cat and mouse game. For three hours, he dodged and deflected investigators' questions until finally, they told him about the DNA match and the floppy disk. Right then and there, Dennis admitted that he was BTK. When the news came out, his family and church community were completely stunned, so much so that Paula was granted an emergency divorce. Over the next two days, Dennis talked with investigators for nearly 30 hours. He laid out details of all his murders and the trophies he had kept. Investigators got him to give up the locations of his so-called hidey holes

• 48:32Vanessa Richardson?

  by promising not to tear apart his house in front of his family. Dennis agreed and even drew them maps of where they could find everything. And what they found was chilling. Photos of victims, photos of Dennis himself, bound and gagged, neatly organized newspaper clippings, detailed journals, and gruesome drawings. After those discoveries, police had uncovered enough evidence to formally charge him with eight murders. And when they did, he surprised them and admitted to two more they had missed. On March 1, 2005, Dennis Rader made his first court appearance. After a mental health evaluation, he was found competent to stand trial.

• 49:17Vanessa Richardson?

  In May of that year, he appeared again to enter a plea, but remained completely silent. So the judge entered a not guilty plea on his behalf.

• 49:30Vanessa Richardson?

  By the end of June, Dennis changed course, likely realizing there was no point in going to trial. In front of the court and some of his victims' loved ones, he pleaded guilty. Ultimately, the court sentenced him to 10 consecutive life sentences without the possibility of parole.

• 49:49Vanessa Richardson?

  And even behind bars, Dennis kept up the appearance of a model citizen. By April of 2006, he'd earned privileges for good behavior. He was granted access to TV, radio, books, and materials to draw with. When prosecutors learned about this, they pushed back, arguing that letting Dennis see images of women, children, or news stories about his murders would just add fuel to his fantasies. Some victims' families also voiced objections. But the Department of Corrections stood by its policy, saying these privileges were standard for any inmate with good behavior.

• 50:30Tristin Engels?

  I've seen this often when working in corrections. And when it comes to Dennis, compliance is strategic. It's not about morality or remorse. It's about maintaining control in whatever environment he's in. If you think about it, outward obedience was one of his greatest tools. It gave him access to trust and the ability to blend in and move undetected for decades. In prison, that same strategy becomes a way to reassert power. If he can earn privileges, it reinforces his belief that he can still influence the system and therefore still bend authority to his will, maybe even believing he's outsmarting authorities yet again. For Dennis, following the rules is not about doing the right thing. It's about proving that he can master the structure,

• 51:13Tristin Engels?

  whether that's society, law enforcement, or now the Department of Corrections.

• 51:19Vanessa Richardson?

  As of this recording, 80-year-old Dennis Rader remains behind bars. Though he's technically allowed visitors, his family has completely cut him off. Paula hasn't spoken to him since the day he got arrested, and his daughter Carrie only visited him to make sense of what happened. As for why Dennis did what he did, he's offered every excuse imaginable, from demonic possession to something he calls "Factor X", an alleged genetic component in his DNA that drove him to kill. But in the end, no answer can ever justify the horror he caused and the lives he stole.

• 52:14Vanessa Richardson?

  Thanks so much for listening. Come back next time for a deep dive into the mind of another murderer.

• 52:21Tristin Engels?

  Killer Minds is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on all social media at Crime House. And don't forget to rate, review, and follow Killer Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference.

• 52:41Vanessa Richardson?

  And to enhance your listening experience, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode of Killer Minds ad-free, along with early access to each thrilling two-part series and exciting bonus content.

• 52:58Vanessa Richardson?

  Killer Minds is hosted by me, Vanessa Richardson, and Dr. Tristin Engels, and is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Killer Minds team: Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benetton, Sarah Camp, Sarah Bachelor, Marky Lee, Sarah Tardif, and Carrie Murphy. Thank you for listening.

• 53:26Speaker 04

  The police closed my sister's case in 2019. Last month, her killer commented on my post. On Reddit, true crime doesn't come from journalists. It comes from the victims, the witnesses, and sometimes the suspects themselves.

• 53:40Speaker 05

  People post the things they'd never say out loud: anonymous, unfiltered, and completely real.

• 53:46Speaker 04

  And every Tuesday, on Crimes of Reddit, we read them out loud.

• 53:50Speaker 05

  I'm Sabrina Deanna-Roga from Two Girls, One Ghost.

• 53:53Speaker 04

  And I'm Alexis Linkletter from The First Degree.

• 53:55Speaker 05

  Each week, one of us brings the most unhinged true crime stories the internet has to offer.

• 54:01Speaker 04

  And the other goes in completely blind. No prep, no spoilers, reacting in real time, same as you. And then we swap.

• 54:08Speaker 05

  And we pull every thread until the whole twisted picture comes into view.

• 54:12Speaker 04

  It's dark. It's messy. And the scariest part is that these are real stories, posted by real people.

• 54:19Speaker 05

  New episodes drop every Tuesday. Listen to and follow Crimes of Reddit. Available now wherever you get your podcasts.

• 54:26Vanessa Richardson?

  If you're looking for your next podcast, check out What the Fact with Connor Tomlinson from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum and Carter Roy. Every week, they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Follow What the Fact wherever you listen, or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.