Are You the Crazy Ex? with Nick Viall

We've all done some crazy ex things, or at least thought about it, but does that make it ok? We're joined by our friend, fellow podcaster, and new dad Nick Viall to discuss crazy ex behavior, the things we do (from the minor to the major leagues), and how to hold back from those angry urges. We discuss why it hurts so badly when someone betrays you (or even worse, when they move on), how social media makes us crazy during breakups, and the controversial question of "Is it ok to sleep with an ex's friend for revenge?" We also break down our listeners' "Psycho of Power Move" submissions and they are WILD. Before Nick joins us, we're discussing Ashley's secret doctor visits, whether a move by Rayna's recent date was hot or not, and the notion that "Gen Z thinks making out is hotter than sex." Enjoy! Follow Nick on Instagram @NickViall and TikTok @nickviall, check out his podcast The Viall Files, and get his book Don't Text Your Ex Happy Birthday. Follow us on Instagram @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit girlsgottaeat.com for tour dates, merchandise, and more. Thank you to our partners this week: Quince: Get free shipping and 365-day returns on your next order at https://quince.com/GGE. Nutrafol: Get $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping at http://nutrafol.com with code GGE10. ZBiotics: Get 15% off at https://zbiotics.com/gge with code GGE. Storyworth: Get $10 off your first purchase at http://storyworth.com/gge. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Character matters and like you're doing something that it would ultimately be something you wouldn't normally do.

• 0:05Rayna Greenberg?

  Would you normally keep somebody's car?

• 0:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  This podcast is a Dear Media production.

• 0:25Rayna Greenberg?

  Hi guys.

• 0:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  Hi guys.

• 0:26Rayna Greenberg?

  Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat.

• 0:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  Welcome back.

• 0:30Rayna Greenberg?

  Luckiest day of the year, 11/11.

• 0:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  11/11.

• 0:32Rayna Greenberg?

  Are you like corny like me? Do you stop at like 11/11 every time you catch it on the clock?

• 0:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  And do what?

• 0:36Rayna Greenberg?

  I make a wish.

• 0:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Make a wish. I did when I was younger, but it's like, it's a lot every day.

• 0:41Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't, you know, if I catch it, I don't actively seek it out, but if I catch it, I'm like, that's so lucky.

• 0:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, I love angel numbers. I feel like I've gotten more into them with my fiance. He's like very into them. He has a tattoo of one and I feel like I've turned you on to them.

• 0:54Rayna Greenberg?

  I'd never heard of that before.

• 0:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  So three or four consecutive numbers in a row and I'm really into that. You know, I've, over the years, been on a home buying journey as well and I'm always really big on the address and I've been like, that's a lucky address and I'll always even look at what year the house was built and things like that.

• 1:11Rayna Greenberg?

  I also think when people give me their phone numbers, I think like, do I like this phone number?

• 1:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, you take it a step further.

• 1:16Rayna Greenberg?

  There are certain phone numbers I really like.

• 1:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  So the very first night he and I got together in the hotel room in Boston, like I went back to find my receipt from the hotel to see like the room number.

• 1:27Rayna Greenberg?

  What was it?

• 1:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, it actually was 1112.

• 1:31Rayna Greenberg?

  And that's an angel number?

• 1:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean, the 111 of it all. So we've just kind of taken 111 and ran with it. That's why I want to get married on 111. Now you guys know.

• 1:38Rayna Greenberg?

  Wait, that's crazy.

• 1:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  On 111.

• 1:39Rayna Greenberg?

  That's really, you should, please, what do you talk about at your wedding? The first time we fucked was in 111.

• 1:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  But we're, can I talk about it?

• 1:45Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes. If we, yes, like I just kind of pretend the two doesn't exist because it still has an angel number in it technically. Also it has room 112 where the players dwell in it, but also I'm going to email them and ask if we can stay in it again in December.

• 1:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  I love that idea.

• 2:00Rayna Greenberg?

  We're staying at the same hotel.

• 2:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  We do it now.

• 2:02Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 2:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Tessa, email them.

• 2:03Rayna Greenberg?

  I'll ask.

• 2:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Raina, I just have to tell you, I just got two moles removed.

• 2:09Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, Ashley, you do this thing, and I don't really understand it. You've done it for our entire friendship, like of a decade. And you're always like casually mentioning that you're going to the doctor and you gatekeep why. It's always. I've all, you always make me ask the follow up question. You texted me and told us like, I have a doctor's appointment tomorrow and like, didn't offer the information. Like, it's just the dentist, or it's the gynecologist, or like it's somewhere in your butt again. It's something in your butt again. So like, I have you gatekeep the information.

• 2:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  I swear I told you a while back and I was like, I'm going to the dermatologist on election day. What's gonna happen? But I, they just remove them on the spot.

• 2:42Rayna Greenberg?

  Do they freeze them off?

• 2:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, like she took them off, put them in a jar.

• 2:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Do you take them home?

• 2:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  She has to check them for cancer.

• 2:52Rayna Greenberg?

  So checking them and removing them is the same procedure?

• 2:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  I went in, I had a mole that was concerning, which even a friend who was a dermatologist, I was on a girl's trip with her. She's like, get that checked out. It has like irregular borders or whatever. I was like, I do think it's growing. So.

• 3:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Irregular borders?

• 3:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's how you know. You're not checking your moles now. I know. You're outing yourself.

• 3:11Rayna Greenberg?

  No, I don't. I have a lot of moles.

• 3:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  I have freckles all over.

• 3:14Rayna Greenberg?

  I have so much skin. What is the difference between a freckle and a mole? I don't fucking know.

• 3:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, Google it. So it had irregular borders and it looked, I'm just saying, not to be an asshole, but Google what looks normal and what doesn't. The two that I thought were problematic are the two she took off. She did my whole body. It was butt naked. She checked everything and she was like, you were right. I was like, once again, I'm the doctor here. So.

• 3:35Rayna Greenberg?

  And then she let you burn them off yourself?

• 3:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes. I was like, I'll do that. I'll actually handle that. No, they, it's like, see, got a little.

• 3:41Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, a little dot.

• 3:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  It really is like just a little pinch of numbing and then they just, it's so quick and easy. I did not know what was happening that day. Like, I was like, I thought I'd have to come back for this. She's like, no, we're gonna do them.

• 3:50Rayna Greenberg?

  Uh huh.

• 3:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right now. So hopefully I'm fine. I mean.

• 3:53Rayna Greenberg?

  I hope so too.

• 3:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  You know, obviously it's always a little concerning when they take your moles. And then she was like, I think I'm gonna wanna see you twice a year.

• 3:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Cause you're a mole.

• 4:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Just probably my type of skin, the moles, that my fair skin, yeah. All my other weird shit going on. She's stumped. About the stuff on my neck. It's a whole thing.

• 4:09Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, I'm glad you got that taken care of. I should put it in your contract that you swear that you'll get your moles checked twice a year. You know, like when you're an athlete, you have like, what's the clause called? But like, pro athletes can't go like, skydiving or race car driving.

• 4:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 4:23Rayna Greenberg?

  And so I would like you to get your moles checked.

• 4:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, I'm down to go. It was less than a mile from my house. I was in and out. She was no nonsense because she came in when I was still changing and she wasn't like, oh, excuse me. She was like, let's get to it. Like, I was naked and she was like, all right, well, you know, I'm going to see it all anyway. Which I love that energy.

• 4:40Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, I love it. And I feel like when doctors give me the time to get all worked up, then I will get worked up. Like, but if they're just like, let's just do this shit. Like, I got, I had to get vaccinated the other day to meet my nephew.

• 4:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 4:51Rayna Greenberg?

  And this guy, just three needles in my arm, bump, bump, bump.

• 4:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 4:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Didn't even like, stop. He wasn't like, and here we go. Anyway, I mean, he was just like stab, stab, stab.

• 5:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  She was no nonsense. And like, I was like, oh, one more thing. Will I have you, uh, do you have a vein specialist? And she was like, yep, give him the card. And she was out. I was done. Oh, my God. Like, it was so quick and easy. Moles removed, got the card for the vein specialist. See you back in six months. We'll call you if you have cancer. Done.

• 5:15Rayna Greenberg?

  She sounds like a New Yorker.

• 5:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  A hundred percent.

• 5:18Rayna Greenberg?

  All right, let's thank one of our partners and then jump in. Thanks to Quince. Get free shipping and 365 day returns on your next order at quince.com slash GGE. And thanks to Zbiotics. Get 15% off at zbiotics.com slash GGE with code GGE.

• 5:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes. And thanks to Story Worth. Get $10 off your first purchase at storyworth.com slash GGE. And Nutriful, which I just told my dermatologist that I'm taking it, get $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping at nutrafol.com with code GGE10.

• 5:49Rayna Greenberg?

  So as we're recording this, I am waiting for both the keys to my house and my nephew to be born. It keeps getting pushed like day by day by day. Waiting for the keys and her getting induced. So we'll talk about it next week if I ever get the keys and I ever meet my nephew. But in the meantime, I am like, working on the renovation. And last night, I had like a Zoom meeting with the contractors. And Ashley, how fucking hot is that guy?

• 6:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  You sent a screenshot of the Zoom and I just responded to the group chat. You are so fucked. You were grinning ear to ear. I was like, you don't even look at me like that. You are fucked. And then you were telling me about him. I was like, that's it.

• 6:22Rayna Greenberg?

  To be fair, I probably was laughing at my own joke. He's like, I don't want to say he's rude. He's just, I, rude is not the word. He just, he really, I worked for it a little bit. I got on the Zoom and he was just on another phone call.

• 6:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Rob does that shit.

• 6:36Rayna Greenberg?

  I just, I was a little fuckboy in a way I liked. Like, I like talking to him and he's funny and I love looking at him. And he like, kind of laughs against his own will at the stuff that I say and I like it. Like, so we're gonna go, we're gonna go shopping this week. Me and him.

• 6:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  This is a date. You're already fucking the contractor in your mind.

• 6:57Rayna Greenberg?

  I deal with him and either his cousin or his brother, I haven't just, I haven't figured out what the relationship is yet, but he seems to travel a lot, so I'll get him when I can. And he's like, do you want to go shopping for doors with me on Thursday and also to a nursery to get plants? So we're gonna go plant and door shopping together tomorrow.

• 7:15Rayna Greenberg?

  And the way he talks to me just makes me really want it more. He was like, so we're gonna be outside, so just like, make sure you like, wear a hat, it gets sunny. And I was like, did you just explain being outside to me?

• 7:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's crazy.

• 7:26Rayna Greenberg?

  I've been outside before. Thank you so much. And he like laughs against his will at me and it makes me laugh.

• 7:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  I like that. I mean, what I know about this guy so far is he needs someone to push back on him. You know, and like, give him a hard time. You could be that woman.

• 7:42Rayna Greenberg?

  The way he talks to me is so funny. I'm like, can I do this thing? And he's like, this is America. Can you pay for it? You could do the thing. I don't know.

• 7:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, I hope it works out. However, I think you're fucked, but yeah, this guy's gonna have you in a chokehold in more ways than one.

• 7:55Rayna Greenberg?

  I hope he literally has me in an actual chokehold.

• 7:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  So my realtor sent me a house this morning and it's probably not the one. Again, I've been trying to buy a house in Dewey Beach for, you know, four years. And it is a town home. It's great. It's on an end. It's in a great location. Four stories. Like, where is the elevator in this house? Like, I was really laughing, thinking about paying this hefty price, whatever the house is, and being like, I gotta go up four flights of stairs.

• 8:20Rayna Greenberg?

  What's on the top floor?

• 8:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Bedrooms. My parents would never see them. They could never get up there. Right now, I just couldn't stop laughing, thinking about like, coming from New York. Like, you live in a fourth floor walk-up. Your bedroom's on the fourth floor.

• 8:34Rayna Greenberg?

  Floor is crazy. I mean, I look-

• 8:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Floor is actually crazy.

• 8:36Rayna Greenberg?

  I look-

• 8:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Three is fine.

• 8:37Rayna Greenberg?

  I looked at a house, the ground floor was two bedrooms, like guest bedrooms. The second floor was like, living room, kitchen. And the third floor was the main bedroom. And even I was like- That's kinda high up.

• 8:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 8:46Rayna Greenberg?

  Three story.

• 8:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  Townhomes, uh, obviously a thing. My house is technically three stories. I guess it's low key.

• 8:52Rayna Greenberg?

  But you don't have to go to the top floor.

• 8:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  The roof.

• 8:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Have to go to the roof.

• 8:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, and I guess I do have four.

• 8:57Rayna Greenberg?

  The basement. As somebody who already lives in a fourth floor, Ashley, you live in the tallest house. I don't, I forget that you already live in one of these.

• 9:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's the basement of the garage.

• 9:05Rayna Greenberg?

  Can you believe it?

• 9:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  You literally live in one. Between the second floor and the rooftop is not a full story. You know what I mean? Like, it's just, you go up a few steps, there's a loft space up there, whatever, but I was just laughing. This house is massive. It's way too big for me. It's five bedrooms, 3,000 square feet. Like, I just don't need a house that big.

• 9:20Rayna Greenberg?

  It's a rental property.

• 9:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  It would be a rental property. Like, I don't want to own a home that I feel like would be my forever home that's all bedrooms. And also it has a crazy HOA for some odd reason, but I sent it to Matt and he was like, you gotta, you can cancel your gym membership with that house. Just hop it up and down those stairs.

• 9:35Rayna Greenberg?

  So many. Three is where I tap out. I couldn't do four. And I've, as somebody who lived in New York her whole life, I lived on a fifth floor walk up. That was my tallest one. That was my first apartment in New York. I was sprightly. I was 22.

• 9:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 9:47Rayna Greenberg?

  And then I lived in a two-floor walk up a couple of times.

• 9:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm a first-floor bitch. With the dog, I could never do it. Like, I just, I had something about it. Like, even when I lived in my elevator building, I still, not that I really got to choose, but I was still only like second floor. Like, I like being able to get in the stairs. Like, I cannot picture a life for myself where I'm waiting for an elevator all day, every day. Like, I hate waiting for elevators. But outside of it, like, I'm like, I just, I feel like I don't want that to be part of my life. It's part of a lot of people's life.

• 10:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  But it's just like, I can't.

• 10:19Rayna Greenberg?

  Ready to go, you wanna go.

• 10:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm too impatient.

• 10:21Rayna Greenberg?

  My brother doesn't like it either. He doesn't wanna talk to a doorman. He's like, I won't do it. I don't wanna speak to people.

• 10:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  I miss my doorman.

• 10:25Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, I do. I do not.

• 10:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  One day, I'd be living, if I lived back in New York, whatever, I'm in like, on a sixth floor. I'm just in the stairwell every day. You know, I'll be in the stairwell of a hotel.

• 10:33Rayna Greenberg?

  Do you remember how hot your doormen were?

• 10:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 10:36Rayna Greenberg?

  Jesus Christ, Ashley, I forgot.

• 10:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  How could you forget?

• 10:39Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't think about them that much anymore, but oh my God, they were so hot.

• 10:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  But you'll be like, I miss them. I feel like we've been sometimes in hotels and I pop out of some random door. I'm like, I took the stairs. Like, I will find a stairwell that is staff-only if I can. Like, I love to take the stairs. I hate waiting for. Elevators.

• 10:55Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, in hotels. Yeah, I don't like.

• 10:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like if I'm on a floor, a floor that I can get up there, I'm just like, where's this, the door to the stairs? And they're like, ma'am, you can't do that. I'm like, you have to let me. There has to be an exit.

• 11:04Rayna Greenberg?

  If it's four floors or less, I like to just take the steps. I'm trying to get the fuck out of there. Not up, down.

• 11:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  Down.

• 11:10Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm not, I'm not hoofing it up four flights. I'd rather die. Actually, it made me laugh really hard. We were in Philly to do a show last week. And this girl, it was a huge wedding party. It was a lesbian wedding. It was a gigantic, amazing wedding party in the lobby. And all these girls looked so beautiful. They were all the bridesmaids. And one gets in and she into the elevator with me, she presses two and she announces to the whole elevator. And she was like, I'm so sorry, I would walk, but not with this hair and makeup.

• 11:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  I love that.

• 11:33Rayna Greenberg?

  And like, I thought she was gonna say with these shoes.

• 11:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 11:36Rayna Greenberg?

  Not with this hair and makeup. I was like, I love you.

• 11:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  I respect it. Well, I was on the second floor in the canopy in Portland, Maine. And there wasn't a stairwell to get up there. I was like, I hate taking the elevator one floor up. And then me and Sparkle Eyes took it to go down. I was like, let's just take the stairs. We're on the second floor. We just ended up outside. It was not, this is like, actually, we were like on the street.

• 11:58Rayna Greenberg?

  It's one of my greatest fears. I go into one of those stairwells and I just can't get out. I know. That phone call you have to make to the front desk to explain where you are. Like, I don't know if I would call you or the front desk. Like, who's gonna make fun of me less?

• 12:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  I have been in stairwells of hotels. Like, I'm, I shouldn't be here.

• 12:14Rayna Greenberg?

  I know.

• 12:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  There's somebody working. There's like a mop bucket. I'm like, this is.

• 12:18Rayna Greenberg?

  It's like the room service people. Like, you're not supposed to be there. I know. And I'm just like, I don't know who I would phone. I'd probably call Tessa. I like the sound of her laugh and she would make fun of me the least. But no, I did, I did go on a date with this other guy this week. And I just want to say, I mean, he was very nice, but he did this thing and I just thought, like, it, I walked into the date and it like melted my heart. I walked in and he was facing the wall. And I just, I loved it so much. And I think that's such a nice green flag that like, somebody didn't take the girl seat.

• 12:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  He saved the booth for you.

• 12:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Like, I think he, like, that's, that really takes some thought to be like, I'm early, I'm 10 minutes ahead of her. I will sit and stare at this wall so she can have the better seat, even though I am paying.

• 12:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. But was he looking around, like, to see when you walked in?

• 12:59Rayna Greenberg?

  It was a really busy restaurant and I actually, the hostess was directly in front of my body and kind of blocked. Until I got to the.

• 13:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, cuz I would also be fine if I walked in and he was sitting in that seat cuz it's the better seat while he waited and then he got up and like.

• 13:13Rayna Greenberg?

  That'd be nice too.

• 13:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, yeah cuz you know, you gotta see when your date walks in, but I thought that was really nice.

• 13:18Rayna Greenberg?

  I've been on several dates where I get there and they're sitting in the booth and they don't like offer me the seat.

• 13:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  Whoa, whoa.

• 13:25Rayna Greenberg?

  I go back and forth cuz I'm like, this is a stranger. I don't expect him to sit for 10 minutes and stare at a wall.

• 13:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's what I'm saying. It's a little simpy.

• 13:32Rayna Greenberg?

  It's a little simpy.

• 13:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  I don't want you to sit there staring at the wall. I want you to be open to the room, in the booth.

• 13:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, but that's awkward. Listen.

• 13:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Watching me walk in and then you get up cuz you should get up when I walk in anyway, if you're a gentleman.

• 13:45Rayna Greenberg?

  That's the smoothest move in the world. They're sitting in the booth, you get there and they're like, no, no, no, please sit here.

• 13:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, cuz you.

• 13:52Rayna Greenberg?

  That is some riz.

• 13:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Need to rise anyway.

• 13:54Rayna Greenberg?

  To greet me.

• 13:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  The whole thing is there has to be a transition anyway. You have to stand up anyway. So then it's like, why don't you take the booth? Ooh, it's sexy.

• 14:04Rayna Greenberg?

  That's so sexy. Now I kinda have the ick about that.

• 14:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  He just sat there and stared at the wall doing what? When you told me, I was just picturing him, he's just like simping out, waiting for Reina.

• 14:20Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, I got a DM from a listener and she was like, I gotta tell you, sis, you look really hot, but you do not seem interested in this date. And I was like, I think I did a better job of pretending than she thinks I did. But the tables were really close together and I like, it is funny cuz you're like aware that other people are aware that you're on a first date.

• 14:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, I know, like, I love nothing more than being in the presence of that.

• 14:43Rayna Greenberg?

  Love it.

• 14:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  But I hate that, like, I could be on a first date and like, someone is listening to me.

• 14:47Rayna Greenberg?

  I know, I was just like.

• 14:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then they get to go home with their fucking partner and be like, oh, my God, could you believe that first date?

• 14:52Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, the two people next to us was these two like really cute girls to the left of me that were just like talking their shit. And on the right of me was this couple that did not speak a word to each other for the entire time. And I was like, I wish Ashley was here to.

• 15:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Just, that's our favorite thing.

• 15:03Rayna Greenberg?

  Watch this with me.

• 15:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 15:05Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, they just did not talk to each other at all. And then I was like, I said to him, I was like, can I just tell you what's so crazy? I was like, did you notice they didn't talk to each other? Like, not one word this entire date? And he goes, no.

• 15:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  And he didn't notice.

• 15:17Rayna Greenberg?

  And I was like, oh, no.

• 15:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's okay. It is a little bit more of a female trait. Like even, I've been out with my fiance and I'm like trying to eavesdrop on people and he is still talking to me. I'm like, excuse me.

• 15:29Rayna Greenberg?

  Maybe he was just paying attention to man.

• 15:34Rayna Greenberg?

  If you're gonna be with me, you need to talk shit on everybody in this room. Okay, you need to listen to me and also multitask.

• 15:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  That is so true.

• 15:42Rayna Greenberg?

  Can you believe this motherfucker just had his attention on me?

• 15:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  That is so true. Like, that is something I would say to Sparkly Eyes. It'd be like, did you hear that? He'd be like, no, babe, I was intently listening to you. And I'm like, well, pull your shit together.

• 15:53Rayna Greenberg?

  Of course.

• 15:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, you can't multitask.

• 15:55Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 15:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  We're supposed to be spying on these other people.

• 15:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, he was a nice person, not a love match because of the staring at the wall thing. No, he really was a nice person. And sometimes you go on those dates and you are, you just go home so devastated and upset. And you're like, that was such a nightmare. And this was just right at the middle. And I'll take that. I'll take just somebody being polite and kind and paying for dinner and being respectful of me and asking me nice questions. And then we go about our day.

• 16:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, they exist.

• 16:20Rayna Greenberg?

  They do exist.

• 16:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, so we wanted to talk about a topic. Tessa sent this to us and, you know, everything comes out of TikTok these days. But Bustle, we haven't talked about Bustle in a while, but Bustle wrote an article titled, "For Gen Z, making out is hotter than sex." And it's just basically about how a hot make out session could be steamier than sex. In a viral video posted on October 7th, creator Disturbed Big Sis said, "Bring back dry humping 2025," which I love, "while talking about how actual sex is rarely as good as a passionate kiss. Like, why do we have to go from making out to having sex? Can we dry hump with clothes on at least three times first, please?" And it has all these likes and comments. And people were like, finally someone said it. And like, you're right, queen.

• 17:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  And I am here for it. This doesn't have to be specific to Gen Z. This applies to everybody. I think we all can kind of like feel this.

• 17:10Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, they talk about like, why? Also, I do agree, it's very steamy and really turns me on. And I love dry humping. I don't know that it's, I would like to have sex, but like, I don't need it on like a first through third date. If I know that I'm gonna sleep with you, we have all the time in the world and I feel very turned on by a make out session. But it talks about why there's a noticeable rise in abstinence due in the part of access to reproductive healthcare, which I think is interesting. It's also a broader definition of what constitutes as sex, pointing at sexting as an example. So, I mean, I do remember dating in like my, so many years ago, in my twenties, and like sexting just wasn't. It wasn't so much a thing, sending photos. I mean, this really like ages me, but like, what if I was gonna send a nude on my BlackBerry?

• 17:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 17:50Rayna Greenberg?

  I wasn't sexting as much back then. I was just ready to get it popping.

• 17:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Body parts you're looking at.

• 17:53Rayna Greenberg?

  Right. Is that your thigh? I know. So I just think there's other ways to feel intimacy with people now. I don't think there's as much of a rush. I think we have more access to people than ever. You could go out every night of the week and fuck a different person. And I think that that sort of diminishes the excitement of it. And I like the chase a little bit.

• 18:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. I mean, this also depends on what stage you are with a person. Like, I'll certainly have like hot, steamy makeouts with my fiance, but they usually lead to sex and we have great sex. And so that's what we both want, but sometimes not. But with a new person, like, the sex can also often be disappointing. I mean, I think sometimes the stories that we share over brunch are like, oh, my God, the makeout, or like, we were just so passionately, we wanted each other so badly. Like, those are kind of the things that you get you really turned on early days. It's not so much the penetration of it all.

• 18:42Rayna Greenberg?

  I actually think like the dry humping and your hands are just like gripping all over different things. You're making out, it's the anticipation of it. That's usually better than the first time you have sex with somebody.

• 18:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  A hundred percent.

• 18:50Rayna Greenberg?

  The first like two times you have casual sex with somebody and you're just like figuring it out.

• 18:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 18:54Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, I'll take making out, dry humping over that a lot of times.

• 18:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. I mean, I'm just so big on, on foreplay. And I think it's, of course, we've talked about, you know, everybody loves a quickie now and then, but like, it is major. It is major to get lubricated. It is major to have a better orgasm when you have so much buildup and foreplay and you're so turned on and all those things. So, yeah. Like, I don't know many women that aren't like, yeah, let's do this for longer. You know, like, I know sometimes you want to get it in, but I think most women are like, can we rub up against each other and make out for longer?

• 19:26Rayna Greenberg?

  Uh huh.

• 19:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Cause I love this.

• 19:29Rayna Greenberg?

  I just, I hope that this is also that like, women feel that their value in a relationship isn't just sex and that they can provide other value and they don't need it to feel good about themselves or to make, make them feel like a man likes them. Like, I, I hope some of this is just doing part to women feeling like, I don't owe this to anybody. I don't have to prove my value with this. I don't have to make somebody like me with this. And that maybe like the tides are changing in terms of what women, Want to give of themselves and what men expect of women because for most of the podcast, one of the number one questions we ever got was like, how soon do you sleep with somebody? And now it just sounds like people are waiting a little bit longer.

• 20:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 20:04Rayna Greenberg?

  I like to see it.

• 20:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  And we have said this since day one. I mean, those first few dates, it's so hot to have a hot make out, dry humping, touching each other, you know, second base kind of stuff in the anticipation of having sex later. Like it's always okay to wait. I mean, I just think that goes a long way. Like those memories keep you going.

• 20:26Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 20:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. I just love this one quote. It says, "Sexual anticipation can sometimes be better than having sex at all because it's that intense sexual chemistry that's compounding without ever having a release," says Lee Norin, a sex therapist and coach. "It's all about where will this go as opposed to satisfying the itch right away." I love that.

• 20:46Rayna Greenberg?

  I love it. And you can pretend that someone's good in bed.

• 20:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  You can suspend reality.

• 20:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, but I do.

• 20:52Rayna Greenberg?

  They can have as big of a hog on them as you want them to be.

• 20:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 20:55Rayna Greenberg?

  Or small.

• 20:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 20:57Rayna Greenberg?

  All right. Well, we have a great episode for you guys today. We have Nick back on the show, but before we welcome him, we're just gonna take a couple of partners.

• 21:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. So I'm going to tell you guys about Story Worth. We love when we get to talk about Story Worth because that means the holidays or some holiday is coming up. So this is truly one of the best gifts. If you are wondering, what are you going to get for somebody, a family member? This is really going to be it, especially like a parent or a grandparent. We are just such fans of it. So the way that it works is you're going to go and you're going to purchase your Story Worth. Let's say you want to get it for your mom or your dad, and then they will email your loved one a thought provoking question that you get to help pick. So some questions might be like, what's the bravest thing you've ever done? What's the farthest you've ever traveled? Or how did you used to get to school every day? And you can go in and you can tailor them.

• 21:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  So we've done it for my mom and my dad, but I can't remember. One of them, I didn't know I could choose the questions. And so I just like let it rip. And I was like, my dad was like, what is this question? And then when we did it for my mom, I like went in and kind of like chose them. So it's really fun. Like they supply the questions, but you can pick and choose. And then they make the writing process a breeze. Loved one is going to need to respond to that email with a story. Again, they just like bang it out. I thought it was so cute when I would like see my dad was like responding to his story worth. And then you're going to be emailed a copy of your loved one's responses. They're submitted over the course of the year. And then they can pile it into this book. It's this beautiful keepsake hardcover book. It isn't some sort of like cheap photo book, not that there's anything wrong with that, but this is this actually like beautiful book that you can share and revisit for generations to come. So we're obsessed with it.

• 22:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean, so many of my family members have gotten it. I think it's the best way that you can A learn about your loved ones and then preserve their memories. Families just love it. It has more than 35,000 five star reviews on TrustPilot. Millions of stories preserved since they were founded over 10 years ago. I loved reading about my parents' marriage and some of the dates that my dad took my mom on. And you know, my mom, when she was pregnant with me and different things like that. It's just like really special and heartwarming. So you can help your family members share and capture their stories this holiday season with Story Worth. Go to storyworth.com slash G G today and save $10 on your first purchase. That's S T O R Y W O R T H dot com slash G G E to save $10 on your first purchase. Storyworth.com slash G G E.

• 23:09Rayna Greenberg?

  And since it's getting cozier, we're going into fall. If you want to refresh your wardrobe or maybe even look for gifts for other people, Quince is something that Ashley and I absolutely love. Can't recommend it enough. You will find so much on their website from accessories, bags, shoes, clothing, so many basics. I'm really crazy about it. And Quince is known for their Mongolian cashmere sweaters from $50. I mean, if you've ever bought cashmere, you know that that is an unbelievable price. And they have it as cardigans, button downs, sweaters, turtlenecks.

• 23:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Cashmere tee?

• 23:41Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, that is quite luxury right there. Like a cashmere tee tucked into some like trousers with a belt? And it comes with a ton of different color options. I'm just really crazy about what they do. And it's not just that. All the Quince items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. It includes beautiful leather jackets, cotton cardigans, denim, so much more. I just am constantly so impressed by the quality and the prices on their website. I really love the purses. And I mean, I know we mentioned these cashmere sweaters, but like the colors are so beautiful. This Mongolian cashmere. Enix sweater in this maroon color. I love the maroon that they're doing. It's called rich burgundy on the site. And I mean, there's like nine different colors. It's beautiful varsity red. The colors are great.

• 24:24Rayna Greenberg?

  You know, Ash and I are just crazy about their washable silk. There's something there really for you or for anybody in your life. If you're thinking about holiday gifting and the only work of factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices. So that's really important to us. You can get cozy with Quince's high quality wardrobe essentials. Go to quince.com slash GGE for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E dot com slash G G E to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash G G E.

• 24:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, let's get into it.

• 24:56Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, guys, we are very excited to welcome back a friend of the show. He is the host of the Viophiles. Please welcome back Nick Viall.

• 25:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  Reyna, it's a short intro.

• 25:06Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm just, I'm gonna gas him up.

• 25:07Speaker 00

  Why does it need to be longer?

• 25:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  I don't know. Reyna, she usually goes harder.

• 25:11Speaker 00

  I did notice that you guys don't have my book anywhere.

• 25:16Rayna Greenberg?

  In my actual personal set?

• 25:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's Friday, everybody. She's, she's.

• 25:19Speaker 00

  I want to start by saying congratulations to you two ladies.

• 25:22Rayna Greenberg?

  What do we do?

• 25:22Speaker 00

  You guys clearly are the muse for the new hit show. Um, no one wants this.

• 25:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, we got that a lot.

• 25:30Speaker 00

  It's both, it's like, I know it's not, it's like about their life and, you know, she

• 25:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 25:36Speaker 00

  Married a Jewish man who was a rabbi or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

• 25:38Rayna Greenberg?

  Erin Foster.

• 25:39Speaker 00

  Do they have, they don't have a, a hit sex and relationship dating podcast.

• 25:43Rayna Greenberg?

  It's not a hit, but it is, it does exist.

• 25:45Speaker 00

  They had one.

• 25:45Rayna Greenberg?

  They have one.

• 25:46Speaker 00

  They have one.

• 25:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Erin Foster and Sarah Foster have a podcast together.

• 25:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  But not a dating and sex podcast.

• 25:52Rayna Greenberg?

  No, it's just about their.

• 25:53Speaker 00

  And did they have one? Did they have one when she met this guy?

• 25:58Rayna Greenberg?

  No, I don't, I'm not sure how long the podcast has been around.

• 26:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know.

• 26:03Rayna Greenberg?

  I'll take it.

• 26:03Speaker 00

  It's you two.

• 26:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  And they started pitching that show right around the time when we were kind of new on the scene.

• 26:09Rayna Greenberg?

  They've been pitching it for like five years, I think.

• 26:11Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 26:11Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 26:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, so it's clearly, and then, you know, one sister's way taller than the other.

• 26:15Rayna Greenberg?

  I know. I saw that they cast two people that were so tall and short.

• 26:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like it is us.

• 26:19Speaker 00

  It's you. It's you too.

• 26:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Thank you. And we love the show and we, you know, we don't feel ripped off.

• 26:24Speaker 00

  No, I don't. I feel like you should be, this is.

• 26:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  Flattered. We should see them.

• 26:28Speaker 00

  No.

• 26:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  We should have done it.

• 26:29Rayna Greenberg?

  We should get a cameo in the next season.

• 26:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  We got a lot of that from our audience and we absolutely.

• 26:33Speaker 00

  They should have name dropped you guys at least.

• 26:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know.

• 26:36Rayna Greenberg?

  I know. Call or Daddy got a name drop. Yeah.

• 26:38Speaker 00

  Well, you know, when you get a $60 million deal.

• 26:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, followed by a $100 million deal. So we appreciate it.

• 26:45Rayna Greenberg?

  Nick, to gas you up more, I, you're the only podcast I listen to besides ours.

• 26:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  And we're the only podcast you come on.

• 26:53Speaker 00

  I don't even listen to mine.

• 26:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's okay.

• 26:56Speaker 00

  I try to. I'm just too busy.

• 26:58Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, you do three a week and you're, you're a dad now. You're, you're River's dad.

• 27:02Speaker 00

  Uh, yes. Dad life is great.

• 27:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. Well, I want to circle back. You don't do podcasts, but you do ours. And so we just want to let everybody know.

• 27:09Speaker 00

  Well, I have done plenty. I just like, you know, dad life, the show has been popping off and busy. And it was just like, why? I have a podcast. If I have anything interesting to say, I'll say it on my show.

• 27:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  Exactly.

• 27:22Speaker 00

  Why am I doing other people's shows? And then I see them would do favors for people and always became some kind of headache or whatever. So I just kind of stopped doing them, but you guys reached out. You guys are friends. But also like, I like, I like talking dating relationships with you, you two ladies. And it's more like us. It's like shooting the shit rather than like.

• 27:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 27:37Speaker 00

  You know?

• 27:37Rayna Greenberg?

  I listen to your show all the time. I listen to him all the times of the week. It's my number one car podcast. Yeah, it's great. And I love the tea.

• 27:43Speaker 00

  Give me notes.

• 27:44Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, Ashlyn and I are so obsessed with Love is Blind and I'm so obsessed with Bravo. And so like, it's just a real hit for me.

• 27:50Speaker 00

  Well, it makes me happy. Cause I'm very self-conscious.

• 27:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, I love it too. I love it on walks. I'll be like, I want to go walk for an hour. And so you got to queue it up.

• 27:59Speaker 00

  Well, I appreciate that. I mean, I, I, I just want to make sure we continually put out a good show.

• 28:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, we love it.

• 28:03Speaker 00

  It's good to hear feedback from professionals like you.

• 28:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Thanks. We were just talking about Love is Blind before we recorded for at length. And I mean, you get them all. You get everybody.

• 28:12Speaker 00

  You know, I have a close relationship with that franchise and yeah, they're kind to me and it's a mutually beneficial relationship, but.

• 28:19Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 28:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  And you ask them all the questions. Everybody wants to know. I mean, I think I remember posting a comment on some real, I don't even remember what season it was. And I was like, you're giving us what Nick and Vanessa did it.

• 28:31Speaker 00

  We tried to.

• 28:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  And it got so many likes because everybody felt that. It's just like, you're getting these interviews that people are dying to know.

• 28:38Speaker 00

  I appreciate you saying, and you know, I also understand in fairness to like any host of a, you know, reunion or a reality TV show. They film these things for hours.

• 28:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 28:49Speaker 00

  They don't get to edit it. So there's always the possibility that, you know, maybe they're asking questions that for whatever reason, don't make the final cut.

• 28:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's a good point. Except for the live one.

• 28:58Speaker 00

  But what's consistent about Nick and Vanessa is their insistence on talking about meaningless, stupid things.

• 29:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 29:07Speaker 00

  And that is making the cut. So I can't, I don't think, I could be wrong, but I don't think they're asking. Vanessa clearly doesn't watch the show.

• 29:17Rayna Greenberg?

  What do you think she watches?

• 29:19Speaker 00

  I don't think she watches.

• 29:20Rayna Greenberg?

  You think she just gets like the Cliff Notes?

• 29:21Speaker 00

  I think she shows up, gets the Cliff Notes, maybe, yes, skims. She's, she's not a fan of the show, like we are. She's not watching.

• 29:29Rayna Greenberg?

  That is such a hot take.

• 29:30Speaker 00

  I don't, this is, this is, this is an opinion. I have no inside information on this.

• 29:34Rayna Greenberg?

  I will say like, you know, I've watched every Andy Cohen hosted reunion for a decade plus. And he is clearly a fan of the show. He watches it and he doesn't really let people off the hook. Like he keeps digging until you get the answer.

• 29:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's what Nick does.

• 29:47Speaker 00

  Very good what he does.

• 29:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  On his interviews.

• 29:48Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. I have a question for you, just for my own information. So I really got into your show around the time of Scandival, about two and a half years ago. And I, because I needed community, I needed to listen to more people talk about it. Prior to that, you mostly did Bachelor stuff and like, was your entree into like the Bravo world, Scandival?

• 30:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:06Rayna Greenberg?

  So you didn't really watch, now you really are like the go to place for all these reality TV stars to like give exclusives.

• 30:12Speaker 00

  You know, my show, you know, we were on our 800th and whatever episode. I started in 2019. Uh, I mean, I think about it all the time, but it's not the same show. You know, the bones of what my show was, my show has always been some version of a relationship in pop culture and reality TV podcast. Like from episode one, we talked about relationships and we talked about reality TV on some way. But like, yeah, it is, it has drastically evolved, you know, over the years. And, you know, I didn't start doing Bachelor recaps until a year in, until I started getting like just. Recognition for a show that was not reality TV focused and that was just kind of my own, wanted to prove that to myself type of thing. And then we started doing

• 30:52Speaker 00

  that, had success with that, you know, expanded the show. And then, yeah, I got into Scandival. And I'm always looking for ways to stay fresh and grow the show. You know, you ladies are an exception to the rule as well, but like most podcasts, they pop and they just slowly die, you know, like you have to keep being innovative.

• 31:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, and evolving.

• 31:13Speaker 00

  And the show, again, having always been some kind of pop culture relationship podcast, all forms of reality TV are really just, you know, a way to talk about interpersonal relationships and social dynamics and using it as a launching pad to relate to our own lives. And so coming from that space and I know how it all is made, I know how it works. So I'm able to empathize from a production standpoint, from a contestant's standpoint. And so, yeah, it's just fun and I enjoy talking about it. And, yeah, we started with Scandival and then Salt Lake City popped, I got into that and that was amazing. So then I started looking at other housewife shows and yeah, and then we came up with Reality

• 31:56Speaker 00

  Recap a couple of years ago and just kind of broadened our horizons. And yeah, it was Love is Blind. I think Love is Blind was the next step after Bachelor. We got into Love is Blind. And then like this past summer, Love Island, you know, because I was always like, you should watch Love Island. I was like, oh my God, there are so many shows. And then Ariana was the host. So I was like, you know, let's watch our girl. Let's see how she's doing. And then it was like, oh, this shit's amazing, you know, like, and it was shockingly easy to binge. And so, yeah, we just kind of, just kind of kept evolving.

• 32:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  I love to hear it. And I love that you're like, it's not the same show. And that's the point. You know, people are always like, you've changed. And it's like, that's the point. We're supposed to change and evolve and grow. And I just love it. You're really the go to for all these people. And it seems like you kind of just fell into it and you're crushing it. And we love it.

• 32:41Speaker 00

  Well, I appreciate you saying likewise. You ladies are.

• 32:44Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, two things I want to say before we move into like more of a topic, but you do you do have a book that you wrote, which we we promoted last time, but I want to drive people to it again. Don't text your ex. Happy birthday. And I love it. And it's just, oh, really, Ashley and I both really love it. It's tons of topics just about modern day dating and relationships. I really recommend that people look it up, read it.

• 33:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's on the property, allegedly.

• 33:03Rayna Greenberg?

  It's in my bedroom. It's in my bedroom. It's in my personal stack.

• 33:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, Raina likes to read it before bed.

• 33:08Speaker 00

  No, I appreciate you saying, you know, I want to, I want to write another one. I don't, I need to start like, just writing at night, just to write and see what happens.

• 33:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, your life is different. You're a dad.

• 33:22Speaker 00

  You know, like our Ask Nick shows, which is every Monday, where people just call in and then, you know, share their stories. Like, it always was and still is, you know, the main, most of the callers are, you know, it's a lot of dating and relationships, you know, meeting fuckboys, dealing with situationships. But, you know, every once in a while, I'll get a caller asking a new problem, like a parent-child relationship and or a friend relationship. And people have enjoyed that perspective I've shared. So then we get more of those. And I've been really into the whole, like, parent-child dynamic, which has been a lot of fun to talk about. And so it's just like different aspects of life and things like that we dive into.

• 33:59Rayna Greenberg?

  I think it helps your audience feel like you grew up with them. And I think about the stuff that Ashley and I talked about seven years ago, that I'm still proud of it. But we've grown up. Our lives are different. Ashley's engaged. And so the stuff that you're going to talk about is different, the things that you give advice on. And I don't know that I'd give the same advice today that I would seven years ago. I think the advice was good seven years ago, but I'm older, I'm calmer, I'm wiser.

• 34:18Speaker 00

  When we started our shows, the word gaslighting didn't even exist.

• 34:21Rayna Greenberg?

  Totally.

• 34:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Totally. No, we weren't, we weren't saying narcissist all the time.

• 34:26Speaker 00

  It would be like, what is that? That you think it would be something you've written on?

• 34:30Rayna Greenberg?

  Boundaries? I don't really even know the word boundaries.

• 34:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  So we're going to get into the topic, but we just want to, like, life update. You weren't a dad when we had you on before. How is it going?

• 34:38Speaker 00

  Amazing. Love being a dad. Okay. Yeah, no, it's been really great. We're putting up a tree tonight, November 1st.

• 34:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, Mariah Carey has defrosted and the trees are going up.

• 34:46Speaker 00

  Uh, we dressed River up as a little strawberry yesterday.

• 34:50Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, my God.

• 34:51Speaker 00

  Uh, no, it's great. I mean, she's, we were very lucky. She's an easy baby. Also, like, she's a beautiful baby.

• 34:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 34:58Speaker 00

  Uh, but it's, it's amazing. Yeah, like, honestly, like, I'm, I'm really in, I'm on a, I'm on a heater, life-wise, like.

• 35:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Love to hear it.

• 35:06Speaker 00

  Like work's been good, life's been good. You know, Nellie and I are working together. That's been great, having her on, you know, I, I, I think she's the best part of the show, you know? And she's, again, she's like, she's, she brings a cool, funny element to the show that I don't know if it ever had it before she came. And it's fun doing it with my wife and, and so that's fun. And yeah, life's, life's great.

• 35:26Rayna Greenberg?

  She has funny one-liners. She was fighting with Tom Sandoval. I was dying.

• 35:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, she's, she's very, she's very funny.

• 35:33Rayna Greenberg?

  All right, well, thank you for that.

• 35:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  You guys are a good, we talk a lot about like marriage and who it benefits. And a lot of women feel like they don't get the best end of the deal. And, you know, you have men over here like marriage is great for me. And you guys seem like you have a great mutually beneficial like partnership.

• 35:52Speaker 00

  Both put in maximum effort.

• 35:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 35:55Speaker 00

  Like, you know, we do couples therapy. We had it yesterday, you know? I came from individual therapy here, so I'm, I'm cleansed, I'm ready to go.

• 36:02Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, wow. Okay.

• 36:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's, we work really hard on our relationship. And it's as imperfect as any other relationship, but we work really hard. And, and it really matters to me to be a great husband and to be a great dad. It's the only, I, that's the thing I care most about. I mean, everything I do, I think is for the purposes of my family. And I take great pride in, in making it worth my wife's time.

• 36:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Love that.

• 36:27Speaker 00

  That makes sense?

• 36:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 36:28Speaker 00

  And vice versa, and she does the same for me. Yeah, I will say, not to like toot my own horn or pat me on the back, but you know, ask Nick, are, you just hear about a lot of bad partners and a lot of men are just bad dads. Like, I think that's more shocking to me than anything, you know? I mean, two, two people dating, listen, it's easy to get in each other's nerves and it's easy not to appreciate each other, but like not appreciating your children and not like being there. It's, it's shocking to me, the amount of deadbeat dads out there.

• 36:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  Totally.

• 36:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 36:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 36:57Rayna Greenberg?

  I like that you say that it is work. I think so many people see relationships on social media and they're like,

• 37:01Speaker 00

  It's work.

• 37:02Rayna Greenberg?

  This looks so perfect. And you're like, that, I worked on that, you know? It's not an accident.

• 37:06Speaker 00

  We work on it every day. It's, relationships are work. And then they're beautiful and they're amazing and they're so rewarding, but like they They're not, they don't work because of fate or, you know, because you met in a great cool way, you know?

• 37:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 37:18Speaker 00

  That's not why they work. You wake up every day, you choose to be in this relationship and either enjoy the good times or, or address a problem or a disconnection that you have. And, and some of, some of those are minor things, some of those are bigger things. And, you know, you just have to decide to be in it or not.

• 37:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  But you said something like, you said, I want to be a good partner. Like if that is how someone genuinely feels and they lead with that, like it should really work out. You know what I mean? Like that's, that's how I feel with my fiance. Like we both just really want to be a good partner to each other. You know, I think you, we hear about all this bad behavior all the time. And it's like, if you actually at its root, that person does not care. They don't want to be a good partner, whether it's that they don't want to be in this relationship anymore, or whatever they have going on, like their choice is not to be a good partner to you at its core.

• 38:07Speaker 00

  I mean, one thing that's a common thing I always say on the show, it's just, there's a lot of people like having a boyfriend or girlfriend, but they're not really interested in being one.

• 38:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  Hmm.

• 38:15Speaker 00

  You know?

• 38:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  Love that quote. I don't love that happens, but I love the quote.

• 38:18Speaker 00

  Yeah. Uh, yeah, there's a lot of, specifically of men, you know, a lot of guys love having a girlfriend, but don't want to be boyfriend, you know?

• 38:25Rayna Greenberg?

  Love a girlfriend experience.

• 38:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Absolutely. But that's the thing, same thing with marriage. Like, yeah, what guy doesn't want a wife?

• 38:31Rayna Greenberg?

  A maid?

• 38:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  You know, to do, to do everything for them and, you know, support them and then they're not, it's not reciprocal. So it's just, it's not such a great way to frame it. And I feel for anybody that has just had the light bulb go off of that's what I'm dealing with.

• 38:45Speaker 00

  Well, you think about like, going back to Hannah from Love is Blind, it's just like, her criticism about being harsh with Nick, she's more internalizing is like how, what people think of her as a person. It doesn't seem like she's taking it as like, I don't want to be the nagging partner as opposed to like, you know what I'm saying? She's, she's, it's more like, I don't want to, people to think I'm a bitch. But it's more like, she doesn't seem to have a problem. With how.

• 39:12Rayna Greenberg?

  With the content of the conversation.

• 39:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:15Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 39:15Speaker 00

  Or how is it a reflection of her as a partner?

• 39:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's crazy.

• 39:19Rayna Greenberg?

  I know.

• 39:20Speaker 00

  Here he is, he apologized. She's like, let me ruin your life.

• 39:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, we want to end of the topic. We stole it from you. So we just want to give you credit. We were perusing some of your episodes and this one says.

• 39:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Am I the crazy ex?

• 39:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Am I the crazy ex? I think that's what you guys called it. We were like, that's a great topic. And so you're already well versed in it, but we just love this because I think that you hear a lot of men call their ex crazy who are not crazy. They're just saying that it can be a red flag if a guy is like, all my exes are crazy, but sometimes you are the crazy ex.

• 39:52Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, I'm always like, what'd you do to make her, what did you do to make her crazy?

• 39:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 39:57Rayna Greenberg?

  Have you, I want to know how you feel about people acting crazy after a breakup. And have you been the crazy ex?

• 40:02Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 40:03Rayna Greenberg?

  I have. I've, I caught somebody cheating on me and I got, my friend and I got like paint, like house paint and threw it all over his car in front of her house, like the giant things of paint. And I was young.

• 40:14Speaker 00

  I've never done that. I've never done anything illegal.

• 40:15Rayna Greenberg?

  But also I was 21 and I think the consequences don't feel as heavy when you're that age. Like I, I, I just think like revenge is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. But at 21, when you catch your boyfriend parked outside of his ex-girlfriend's house and you see his car, it feels really good to throw paint all over it.

• 40:35Speaker 00

  I will say, growing up and becoming more emotional and mature, emotionally more regulated. When I feel wronged or slighted by someone, you know, I guess what I'm trying to say is like, being the bigger person is so fucking boring and annoying. And it's like, honestly, sometimes I get so fucking tired of it. I know it's the right thing for ever, you know, for my mental health, for.

• 40:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, sure.

• 40:58Speaker 00

  To not care, living well is the best revenge, but sometimes you just. Want to ruin someone's life.

• 41:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know.

• 41:04Speaker 00

  You know? And

• 41:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 41:06Speaker 00

  It's so annoying doing the right thing all the time. I'm like to always be the bigger person. I'm just so fed up with my maturity, I think.

• 41:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  I just think when I look at it, I'm like, you can't just ruin someone's life and walk away. This is gonna be a long road. This is gonna be like a war. You know, like sometimes when I'm like, I could do this thing, but it won't end there. And then I have to stress.

• 41:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  You know what I mean? Even if you want to argue back and forth with someone on the internet, you know, you're like, I can't just shut it down. Like this will follow me and stress me out and keep me up at night. Like, that's like a minor example, but something about it. I think we all can be like, I wish I could just do this one thing and like get them back. But it like wouldn't end there. Then they would have to get you back and then you have to go back and forth. And then it's like this long journey.

• 41:44Rayna Greenberg?

  It does prolong the cycle.

• 41:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 41:46Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, as I've gotten older, I just, you have to be the bigger person. I feel like it's bad for my soul. But I think the thing that like, it's different when somebody comments something mean on my Instagram and I want to be mean to them back and I'm like, just move along. But like when somebody who is supposed to be kind to you, who you've given your body to and your heart, when they fuck you over, it's like, you don't even know what to do with that energy in your body. It's so painful.

• 42:08Speaker 00

  Well, you just have to let it go. You know? You have to, yeah, you have to find an outlet for it. Because like, without getting into too much detail, like I'm, over the course of my life, and I now have a same experience, like, you know, we've lost touch with friends and whatever. And I've had people like did not let it go. And they would try, you could tell like from afar, they were just, you know, not letting the conflict go. And my life would greatly advance. And theirs wouldn't. And you couldn't help but wonder, it's because of all the energy they're investing in,

• 42:50Speaker 00

  and not like being petty or, you know, talking behind my back or, you know, talking, you know, it's like, it's like, I mean, I preach about this all the time, but your energy is not infinite. It's the things you think about take energy. You could be doing a million other things. And so when you think about it that way, you think about like, how much energy revenge costs. You and where it keeps your focus.

• 43:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, I think one of the best revenges in life is just being unbothered. And even if you are so devastated to your core and you're going to therapy and you're journaling and this person is on your mind constantly because that pain can last a really long time. I was like pretty deep in Reddit today, just people talking about like I brought up three six months ago and I was just reading people's breakup stories, but like, you know, people saying like, I can't let this go. It's been six months. I'm in so much pain. I don't, I understand that sits with you, but like the best revenge is to not let that person know that, like, don't, don't fuck with their life. Don't talk shit on them. Like, how nice does it feel to at least have them think you are unbothered?

• 43:51Speaker 00

  Yeah. Also, part of the part, you know, after six months, you're holding on to that pain.

• 43:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 43:57Speaker 00

  And, and you're doing it because it's the only, you know, a couple of reasons. One, it's, you know, if it's a breakup, part of it is it's the only thing you have left to that person.

• 44:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 44:04Speaker 00

  You hold on to the pain because to let that go, then it's really over.

• 44:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 44:10Speaker 00

  Um, and then part of it, you let that go because you come, you become familiar with it, you know, if you, you identify with it, you know, might be you, you might've even gotten attention from it, you know? And I think after six months, if you're still telling yourself, you can't let it go. And I've been that person. I've been that person who's convinced I couldn't, I couldn't get over it, just couldn't do it, you know? But yeah, you, it's a choice. At that point, you know, after a month or two, it's a choice. You can't help how your body feels about something, but you can help how you respond to that feeling, you know?

• 44:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, I love that you say that. And a word you said earlier that stuck with me is like being regulated. And it's the way that things activate us in the, in the force of Lindsay Hubbard. I used to be so reactive and I was like absolutely a crazy ex. And my ex was crazy too. We were just very volatile and, you know, like I would go over to his house, you know, and after we'd broken up because he'd like lied to me if he was like dating someone new and I like busted in the house one time. He was like recording a podcast and I don't know that person anymore. And I was in my thirties, you know, like this is not that I was 21. And I mean, granted, it was still like a lot of years. But I don't recognize that person and I have never even like raised my voice at my fiance.

• 45:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like I couldn't be more different and I'm not blaming my ex completely. Like it was who I was at the time too. Like I have worked on being less reactive, regulating myself. And I'm with a partner that we don't have that sort of toxic, volatile relationship. But you really just like see red, like you are out of body. Like I've, those moments when I was doing those crazy things, I felt like I was looking down at myself, like totally out of body experience. And I know people have different ways to self-regulate and decompress and just breathe through it. But you're just, so much of it is like that rage and reactivity that you do something crazy. Like you have not taken a break to process the anger. You just like let it take over. And I think that we all can grow out of that. I think that I'm proof of that.

• 46:13Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, we have that relationship you're talking about, the one where I threw the paint on his car. Like we are, we're in a psychotic, toxic cycle. And that's, that's just what we did. We were just terrible to each other.

• 46:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, you get in those relationships where you, that becomes your love language with each other. It's to piss each other off and fight or compete with each other. I was talking with Natalie the other day. I was like, I honestly think you're the first relationship I've ever had where we don't compete. You know, like I was telling my therapist, Darlene, that. And she was saying how like her, her, her first husband, cause like when I say compete, I don't, I don't mean just like on game night. I mean, like she was saying, for example, like her ex-husband would compete with who had the worst day every day. You know, it's like, oh, I had such a bad day and your partner's like, well, I had a worse day, you know? And it's just like, couples do that all the fucking time, you know? And it's so nice to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't feel the need to compete with you, but be a cheerleader and things like that. That is really nice.

• 47:04Speaker 00

  But yeah, you're, you're, you know, couples can definitely have developed some really bad habits where it just becomes how you guys operate with each other. But yeah, it's, uh, I, and I was thinking about that too. It's just like the amount of shit I don't care about that I used to. It's wild, you know? It's just like, and you know, part of the reason why Nana and I don't fight like a fraction as much as I fought with any other girlfriend I've ever had is a big part of me, you know? You know, granted. They played their role too, but like I was a lot more stubborn and a lot more pigheaded and a lot more set in my ways and also a lot more determined to be right, you know, than I am now where it's not like.

• 47:48Rayna Greenberg?

  Uh huh. You do grow up and evolve. I mean, I remember that the girl in me that was dating this person and it was always like Asher said, this out of body experience where I was so angry and so crazy and I can't even imagine a scenario in my life that I would have that type of interaction one time with a romantic partner and ever go back. I just, I can't feel like that. That's not energy I'm going to expend. I'm not going to be that mean. I'm not going to swear and scream. I can't, I will not have one day like that ever again with a romantic partner and then go back to that person. And that just comes with age, you know, like I don't even think I realized then that the entire personality of our relationship was seeing like who could be more terrible and crazy to the next, to the other one.

• 48:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 48:25Speaker 00

  Yeah. I hope that I on some level can teach my daughter some things that it took me a lifetime to learn. Some of it I won't be able to, you know, but I, I hope on some ways I can teach my daughter perspective, which, you know.

• 48:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  I think you will.

• 48:41Speaker 00

  I hope.

• 48:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  You're on that, on that road.

• 48:43Rayna Greenberg?

  I think there's more information today. Like I think that there's so many more people in podcasting, writing books, in self-help that you can listen to. I mean, there's an endless amount of people. There's a little too much podcast equipment sometimes, but I think that there's just more people to say like, just put it down.

• 48:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. Okay. Just going to take a quick break. I am going to tell you guys about Nutriful. I mentioned earlier, I was just the dermatologist and I was telling her about my hair and I really didn't have any concerns, but I told her I've had concerns in the past and this is what I'm using and it's really improved. I mean, I really feel like I'm in such a good place. I mean, I had a lot of hair that shedded and so I really needed to get it back and I really feel like I'm, I'm getting there and I have been taking it for so long. You know, I really started taking it in 2020 and you know, over the years I've been on and off, but I have been so, so dedicated to it really since 2023, when I kind of went

• 49:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  through some hormonal changes that really caused me to, caused my hair to change a lot and a lot. Of shedding and you know, really impacted me like looks wise, but also like emotionally. I think so much of women's confidence and self esteem is tied into their hair. I've always had this like really long, pretty hair. So I love that I can lean on this and it's really helping me get to where a place I'm going to be. Hair thinning affects approximately one in two women. It's totally normal. A lot of women struggle with it and this is how you can really get ahead of it and improve your hair health. Finding the root cause of it. Everybody's got a different root cause for their hair shedding. And so this is going to be the supplement that you take. It's four capsules daily. Nutraful is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand trusted by over 1 million people.

• 50:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  See thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months. Physician formulated, 100% drug free ingredients. And again, targets the root causes, which could be stress, hormones, aging, nutrition, lifestyle and metabolism. And you can purchase online. No prescription is required. Automated deliveries, which is great. Free shipping keeps you on track. And if you guys want some stats on this, 86% of women reported improved hair growth after taking Nutraful Women Hair Growth Supplement for six months. And they have different formulas as well. So you'll see which one works best for you. You can get results, you can run your fingers through. For a limited time, Nutraful is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping. When you go to nutrafol.com and enter the promo code G G 10.

• 51:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  Find out why over 4,500 healthcare professionals and stylists recommend Nutraful for healthier hair. nutrafol.com spelled N U T R A F O L dot com promo code G G E 10. That's nutrafol.com promo code G G 10.

• 51:17Rayna Greenberg?

  So it's coming up on holiday season. It's the fall in general, which means more partying, which always means more drinking for me. And honestly, after a night of drinking, I don't really bounce back the way that I used to. And I've always looked for a solution and I'm so happy we found a pre alcohol probiotic. It's from the brand Zbiotics. So their probiotic was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. I never really knew this, but when you drink alcohol gets converted into toxic byproduct in the gut. And it's this byproduct, not dehydration that's to blame for the rough next day. Pre alcohol produces this enzyme to break that product down. This is a proactive solution that wards off feeling miserable the next Instead of a reactive approach like drinking electrolytes or eating greasy food. So I just take it before I have a night of drinking.

• 52:02Rayna Greenberg?

  I notice the difference the next day. After a night out, I can confidently plan to like not worry about the next day. I don't have to worry about sleeping poorly that night. I just drink it before my first drink and you wouldn't believe how on top of my game I really am the next morning. And Ashley and I run two companies and I want to be sprightly.

• 52:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's really tiny little, by the way.

• 52:19Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 52:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  People are, it's just like, it's less than a shot. It's just like this little vial, you just toss it back before you start drinking and you're good to go.

• 52:24Rayna Greenberg?

  And the packaging is so cute.

• 52:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know, I love it.

• 52:27Rayna Greenberg?

  You can stock up on pre alcohol now for all of your fall and holiday activities. Enhance your mornings with Zbiotics, go to zbiotics.com/gge to get 15% off your first order when you use GGE at checkout. Zbiotics is backed with a 100% money back guarantees. If you are unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money, no questions asked. Remember to head to zbiotics.com/gge and use the code GGE at checkout for 15% off. Thank you, Zbiotics, for sponsoring this episode and our good times.

• 52:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, we want to go through some of these like psychotic behaviors. And I just want to say so many of us have been here. This is no judgment.

• 53:06Rayna Greenberg?

  I wrote this list based on me now.

• 53:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, we've all been here.

• 53:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 53:09Speaker 00

  We've all been, yeah.

• 53:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  And I just, again, like I use myself as an example of when you're in those, doing those crazy things. Like, I think you always are worried that's who you are and you're worried that you'll be like that in the next relationship. And that's not true, you know? Like, I think we're, if you get out of one of those really toxic relationships and then you start to date someone new and things feel really like stable and secure, I think there's always part of you like looking behind your shoulder like, what if that bitch comes back, you know? And that's not true. It doesn't have to be. It could be, you could be a psycho for life.

• 53:41Speaker 00

  A lot of people, like when they're in safe and secure relationships are bored.

• 53:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right, exactly.

• 53:46Speaker 00

  And they self sabotage.

• 53:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  Exactly, there is that.

• 53:48Speaker 00

  You know?

• 53:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 53:49Rayna Greenberg?

  I have different people in my life. Like, I think back to when I was acting like that, I had friends that were egging it on a little more.

• 53:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 53:54Rayna Greenberg?

  I also think when you're 21, everybody thinks that shit's funny. But like today, if I did any of the things I had done in those relationships, I don't have a single friend that would be like, that was a great idea. You should do. That again.

• 54:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right. Like back in those days, it was like, go over there. And you're like, I'm going over there, you know, and it's just like, you really had people gassing you up to do those things.

• 54:13Speaker 00

  You, yeah, and everyone gassed them up because they made, make themselves feel better about their choices in relationships. That no one's a good, your friends are not your friends when it comes to your relationship problems.

• 54:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  Sometimes you just want to be entertained.

• 54:25Speaker 00

  Your friends are just a projections of their own shitty choices and habits to feel better about themselves. All of, we all are like that, like.

• 54:33Rayna Greenberg?

  I just think if I told Ashley, like, listen, this morning I caught my boyfriend cheating. So I went to the paint, I went to the hardware store, I got some paint, I threw it on his car. I think Ashley would like call our business manager.

• 54:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'd be like, I gotta move some money around. I don't feel comfortable. Yeah.

• 54:46Speaker 00

  Houses fall on me.

• 54:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  But when you're young, you're like, we're gonna drive by his house together.

• 54:51Rayna Greenberg?

  We're gonna drive the car into the house.

• 54:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. Okay. So should we go through some of these?

• 54:55Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, we asked people, we got some stories, people, a lot of stuff came about destroying property and contacting people they cheated with. A lot of signing people up for gym memberships or gay dating apps or just, you know, just fucking with somebody a little bit.

• 55:08Speaker 00

  You put your boyfriend in a grinder or something?

• 55:11Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, like fuck with them.

• 55:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  But this one says, signed him up for an ultra marathon, but like, who cares? Did you make him run it? You know, like, he's, he's probably gonna be like, I'm getting these spam emails.

• 55:20Speaker 00

  You just did unnecessary paperwork, Rich.

• 55:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Admin was unnecessary.

• 55:23Speaker 00

  That person's not gonna get revenge.

• 55:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, like, I guess if you have their credit card info, this stuff is revengeful, but otherwise.

• 55:31Speaker 00

  I mean, I guess.

• 55:33Rayna Greenberg?

  I caught up all of his clothing and I put him in his bag that I had also cut the straps off of. It's funny you cut the straps off.

• 55:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  This one is went to law school because my ex went to law school and said I couldn't. That is just Legally Blonde.

• 55:44Rayna Greenberg?

  She just described the plot of a movie.

• 55:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  She took that out of the movie.

• 55:49Speaker 00

  Which, let's just say, is the best kind of revenge you can do.

• 55:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  A hundred percent. That is. Positive revenge and improving your own life. Who cares if it's despite someone else?

• 56:02Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, let me ask you a question. If you think, if you are under the impression you're in a committed relationship with somebody, a long-term commitment, and they cheat on you a bunch, is all of this okay?

• 56:12Speaker 00

  What do you mean?

• 56:13Rayna Greenberg?

  Can you fuck with somebody if they've cheated on you and tried to humiliate you and do all this? Like, some of the stuff, I'm like, did you guys just break up? And this is just an excuse to not move on? Or did somebody like really betray you by cheating on you? And now you're fucking with them?

• 56:25Speaker 00

  I thought you were marrying. Like, if they cheat on you multiple times, do you have the right to get mad? I thought that's.

• 56:30Rayna Greenberg?

  Get mad, but like, can you fuck with them? Is it a little more understandable fucking with people like this?

• 56:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  Within the bounds of the law.

• 56:36Rayna Greenberg?

  You can do whatever. I just think so. I just, I think that if you're gonna like lie to me and be places that you, that, you know, I don't think you are, and have sex with another person, then come into my bed and have sex with me, I can do anything I want to you. After a few weeks, then you move on.

• 56:49Speaker 00

  I get the emotional response.

• 56:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 56:52Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 56:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Just think of the story you want to tell, years down the road. You know, do you want to be like, he cheated on me with my friend and he was lying and he did all these terrible things? And then someone's like, well, what did you do? And you were like, nothing? If that's the story you want to tell. But if the story you want to tell is, I ruined his life, it's like, who do you want to be?

• 57:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  You're not right or wrong.

• 57:13Speaker 00

  Well, nothing is more like, well, it's more like, I realized how lucky I was in that moment to not have this person in my life. And so I just chose to like, you know, obviously work through my hurt. But like, yeah, I, I didn't do anything. Yeah, that's the best possible, yes. And you, five, 10 years from now, will always wish you handled yourself with more grace and more class than if you, you know, paint their car.

• 57:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, I think the answer also, like, nothing. The answer is like, I moved on, improved my own life, went to law school, glowed up, whatever, whatever you did.

• 57:48Rayna Greenberg?

  I keyed him at my ex's car. In all fairness, he tried to run me over.

• 57:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, no. Okay.

• 57:55Rayna Greenberg?

  We have some emails for you too, but I slept with his best friend.

• 57:58Speaker 00

  See, that's not good. I think it's, like, I think the.

• 58:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  The best friend did it too.

• 58:03Speaker 00

  You know, damn it, not that I ever have, and I don't condone it, but having a triggered reaction from, say, someone cheating on you and, and, you know, damaging a little property. Whatever. But like, I hate for people to ruin their character because someone mistreated them, you know, like sleeping with someone's best friend, like, you're not any better than the person who just cheated on you.

• 58:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, but after you break up, especially if there was any sort of like infidelity involved, you don't have loyalty to that ex anymore.

• 58:42Speaker 00

  No.

• 58:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  The friend should have loyalty to his friend.

• 58:44Speaker 00

  I understand that, but like, I'm just saying morally, like, you're, you're, you're fucking with a friendship, you know, like, I'm just saying, like, that, that's a low-character thing to do. It just is. I mean, you might be mad and whatever, but like, you're allowing the person who's cheating on you to win twice when that happens, you know? If, if someone's driving you to do something where you, again, keying someone's car, that's, ha, ha, it's kind of funny, whatever, they can pay to get that back.

• 59:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  Nick, we are opposites.

• 59:10Rayna Greenberg?

  I know.

• 59:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  I am over here, like, who cares if you sleep with this friend? The friend's supposed to have the loyalty, not you.

• 59:16Speaker 00

  No, but like, it's your character. Character matters. And like, you're doing something that it would ultimately be something you wouldn't normally do.

• 59:23Rayna Greenberg?

  Would you normally key somebody's car?

• 59:24Speaker 00

  No, but like, I can picture being really...

• 59:29Rayna Greenberg?

  How tall is the friend?

• 59:30Speaker 00

  It seems far less premeditated. Keying someone's car, you're just like, and you're kind of like, fuck, that just happened, you know? Like, that can happen in seconds.

• 59:38Rayna Greenberg?

  That can happen with a dick, though!

• 59:39Speaker 00

  Someone's friend, you have to call, you go, you gotta, you gotta...

• 59:43Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, what if I ran, I'd always been attracted to him, and I ran into him at a bar? I'm not doing it to hurt my ex necessarily, but I'm not not. I just think...

• 59:52Speaker 00

  Listen, if you just fuck a guy that you've always had a crush on, and you're not doing it to ruin a friendship...

• 59:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Load of matters, too.

• 59:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's like, if someone does something to you, it hurts you, and they have a low-character moment, like, I, personally, I think they win twice when you do something out of, out of character that affects other people's lives in a way that could be damaging to them. Like, you're just never gonna feel good about it. Like, I just don't think you are in the long run, you know?

• 1:00:18Rayna Greenberg?

  We're gonna fuck the friend, but...

• 1:00:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  I just, I, I am with you when it comes to character. Like, your sentiment is exactly spot on. But I am of the mindset of, like, you have no more loyalty to your ex. The friend, that's his loyalty.

• 1:00:31Speaker 00

  I'm not, I'm not saying you have, I, I agree, you don't have any loyalty to your, I, I agree that you have no loyalty to your ex, and, and you have no obligation to protect that friendship.

• 1:00:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right, right.

• 1:00:42Speaker 00

  But you were a catalyst that

• 1:00:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  That ended their friendship.

• 1:00:46Speaker 00

  That did it, and you did it for the purposes of ending it. And like, that's just something that

• 1:00:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:50Speaker 00

  You probably won't feel good about yourself, or hopefully you won't.

• 1:00:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:53Speaker 00

  You know, once you move on and heal because

• 1:00:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's fair.

• 1:00:56Speaker 00

  And then you allow that person, like, that's the thing I always try to focus on or try to tell people, especially when they're having a hard time moving on with someone, is this like, you giving them your energy is like, and what do they say about life? It's, it's short. It's like, we, we don't get, today, we'll never get today back, you know? And if you use today to do something that added no value to your life, then you also potentially might regret it. When you could be, I don't know, going back to law school, or whatever it is, or like volunteering or something, I don't know. Or like, reaching out to a friend that maybe you abandoned while you were so love drunk in this relationship, and taking them out and reconnecting is just, I don't know, a lot more positive energy that you're putting into this.

• 1:01:39Speaker 00

  And, and, and once you get over the pain, you will be very glad that you did those things as opposed to like, ruin some, you know, someone else's, you know, like, what if, for example, in the, you know, this friendship, that the friend, you realize is the person who never really got the girls or whatever, and like, not that they were, not that it's okay, but you, you kind of preyed on the fact that you made their day, and like, kind of like, yeah, they shouldn't have done that, they should have been a better friend, but like, you maybe preyed on their weakness to, to hurt someone else, and it just, it, I definitely believe in karma, you know?

• 1:02:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, it just depends on what the guy did originally.

• 1:02:18Rayna Greenberg?

  I just, I like what you said about the notion of like, when you're through this pain, whatever it is, a couple of years, what do you want to look back and say the story was? And I, I've done things after a breakup, but I've looked back a couple of years later and been like, I didn't have to, like, tell their friends the stuff I told them. I didn't have to say the things to their family that I said, like, I didn't have to do that. But I can also forgive myself because I know that I was operating through the lens of like, extreme amounts of pain. You're out of body, you are a crazy different person then.

• 1:02:48Speaker 00

  People, people get cheated on too, and they might say some terrible things to the person who cheated on them, that they would maybe never say to, you know, but in that moment, you know?

• 1:02:58Rayna Greenberg?

  My ex cheated on me. I broke all of his things. Yeah, the stuff I used to say.

• 1:03:02Speaker 00

  We're all human.

• 1:03:03Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  But I like what you said. You have to forgive yourself and give yourself grace and not be like, that's definitive of who I am. And I also think it's really nice to look back on a way that you used to be and know you would never do those things today. And that's growth and that's really important. And you should always like pat yourself on the back. But yeah, I'm with you. I mean, in a perfect world, we don't let these people get to us and we just move on and improve our own lives. And but sometimes it goes the other way. And I think that's human nature. And I also like what you said of like, how much time you really give somebody because we spend months, years of our lives sometimes when we could have been doing other things, finding someone else. And you, that's the thing I think a lot of people look back at and regret.

• 1:03:43Speaker 00

  Learning a new language and anything.

• 1:03:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Or they've lost.

• 1:03:45Speaker 00

  Improving themselves, making a friend.

• 1:03:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Just enjoying experience.

• 1:03:48Speaker 00

  And that's the thing. I think about like exes that I've had. I mean, I don't, I guess I could look them up on Facebook, but like, I don't know what they're doing. They're not a part of my life. These are people who were like at one point in my life, my entire life, and now they're just strangers to me. You know, and, and that's kind of, you know, ideally for every ex you ever have, eventually it has become a distant memory. But you, that's my, kind of my point is, whatever you do to process your breakup, that'll always stick with you, it'll be a memory, and they won't be. You know, and so just be careful, you know, that you're, you're gonna, you're doing all these things for a person who is eventually going to be a stranger in your life. They'll be a distant memory. But how you, you'll either be proud of how you acted, or, or you won't be.

• 1:04:32Rayna Greenberg?

  I like that notion. Like, that, that will be a stranger one day. So this is just sort of like emotional cutting on yourself. Yeah.

• 1:04:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, so we're gonna go through a couple emails with you and see what you think. And again, we ask people to send us submissions that were psycho or power move. So we decide whether they're psycho or power move, or you know, somebody's a little bit of both. Okay, so I feel like this is very relatable. The first one is about Instagram behavior. She says, well, I turned into that psycho ex today. We split two weeks ago and the one thing I asked from him so that we could remain friends, which that's debatable whether you want to remain friends.

• 1:05:07Rayna Greenberg?

  That's not your friend.

• 1:05:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Was to please not start commenting and adding girls on social media immediately. Et cetera. I know I shouldn't have looked, so that is a moot point, but I saw that he had added two girls he met on a dating app during our last breakup. This is a hot mess.

• 1:05:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  How does she know he met girls on a dating app during the last breakup? And he dropped one, a comment saying, "Those eyes," and then the 100 emoji. "Rather than keeping my composure and grace, I lost my shit by calling and texting like a maniac, said hateful things, and went back and forth for over an hour via text. I just don't understand, after three years, he could have zero regard for my feelings and automatically seek validation from the same people. I'm not young, and neither is he, and I know better, but the devil himself took over me. Now I feel like a heroin addict that got a fix, but I know tomorrow I'll wake up feeling horrible." Which she just validated everything we just said. Like, you did a thing that makes you feel bad about yourself.

• 1:05:57Speaker 00

  I love the heroin analogy, too.

• 1:05:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, and the devil.

• 1:06:00Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, I understand her being like, "I asked you this one thing, and you did this thing very publicly, and it's immediately after this breakup, and I'm still healing." And I go back and forth, like, three years with somebody, I mean, if I was supposed to be with her three years, and the next day, they started commenting on other girls' Instagrams, I go back and forth, because I'm like, "You broke up? Tomorrow, that person can go out with somebody. You broke up. That person does not think they're in a relationship with you anymore." But to publicly do it feels...

• 1:06:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  But don't you feel like the framing, if you can get there, in your mind, is like, "Aren't I glad we broke up? Like, this guy has no regard for my feelings. Like, I don't want to be with somebody who could have shown me some respect and decency and did the exact thing that he knew I was insecure about him doing. He went and did it anyway. Like, hopefully you can tell yourself, like, I dodged a bullet here, but that takes a while to get to that point."

• 1:06:47Speaker 00

  It does, but also, like, the hard truth of this is that this isn't about you trying to protect the memory of a relationship that's now over. It's just, we all, all of us, our egos, we don't want people to get over us, you know? We don't want it to be easy to move on. We feel embar-- she feels embarrassed. The reason why she's so angry is not because he did something that, like, ruined the memory of a relationship that's now over, it's because she doesn't want to feel embarrassed. And have her friends see this, which is totally human. I get it.

• 1:07:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Totally.

• 1:07:21Speaker 00

  You know, but like, yeah.

• 1:07:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  You're so right. Those are the two things, like the embarrassment, the public embarrassment, or you know, the public square.

• 1:07:29Speaker 00

  We want to know we're hard to get over.

• 1:07:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  And that too, I mean, I've always said this, like the couple of years my ex and I were together, went back and forth, off and on. And then the next year, when like I moved away and we still talked a lot, we were done. I wanted the relationship to end. I moved away, you know, I made the decision, but nothing hurt worse than when he got a new girlfriend. And we still communicate a little bit more, but I would say like him moving on with somebody else hurt worse than like the initial breakup.

• 1:07:57Speaker 00

  Cause instead of seeing it the way you should have, your ego is like, wait a second.

• 1:08:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:02Speaker 00

  And then your ego started asking you, why does he like her more than you?

• 1:08:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. It really fucks you up. Like nothing hurt worse than that. Cause I always could say like, he still, we still have feelings, even though we're volatile and fighting back and forth, we still are connected and he still has feelings for me and vice versa. And we actually moved on with somebody else. It was like a dagger to the heart and it's our ego.

• 1:08:22Speaker 00

  I mean, our ego wants all of our exes to like die a slow death, a lonely, slow death.

• 1:08:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:27Speaker 00

  And never find love ever again, no matter what we say.

• 1:08:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Of course. I just, you lay in bed on a loop and imagine those people together and you're just like, is he treating her better than he treated me? Is he changing for her the things that I wanted to change for me? Right.

• 1:08:41Speaker 00

  He's not.

• 1:08:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  But you know, you kind of hold on to this maybe, and it becomes a definitely not. And somebody else gets this thing and you tell yourself all these lies that you make up in your head and.

• 1:08:50Speaker 00

  He's doing one of two things. He is, one, doing all the things, all the nice things he did with you in the beginning of the relationship when he was trying to impress you. Or two, overcompensating with someone who was willing to do something you never were. And now he's seeing something in her because like, you know, you guys fought about something and this person's willing to do it. And he thinks she's just amazing because of this one thing and he's just blinded by, you know, but it's. Yeah.

• 1:09:15Rayna Greenberg?

  I understand her wanting to call him and text him and go crazy, but I do think the reality of this, it's harder to get to in actuality, but the reality is your contract that said, I will not hurt you, ended the day that you guys broke up and he is allowed to do these things. And so for you to go back to him and ask the person who's hurting you to also help you feel better about this, it's misguided.

• 1:09:38Speaker 00

  And let's also be real about relationships when they end. It's not as if, you know, unless say someone cheats on you or, or, you know, some, there's an abrupt ending where you're caught off guard or something.

• 1:09:50Rayna Greenberg?

  Hmm.

• 1:09:50Speaker 00

  But the reason people break up is because there's over a period of time, they start disconnecting and they start disconnecting more and more often on a more and more regular basis. And finally someone has the guts to say, maybe we should end it. But like emotionally, you know, people are starting to check out, you know, they're starting to wonder what it's like to be single, you know, and things like that. So them getting back on the dating apps and messaging people, it's not as if like one day you guys were completely in love and the next day now you're broken up and they have to process this, which is what we want to think, but that's just not the reality.

• 1:10:26Rayna Greenberg?

  And Ashley's point, it is, what he did is unkind. It's not nice, it's not necessary.

• 1:10:30Speaker 00

  It wasn't considered, for sure.

• 1:10:31Rayna Greenberg?

  You can go on dates with people, that's your private life. You don't need to be publicly commenting on these girls' photos. It would make me crazy.

• 1:10:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, like this kind of discussed.

• 1:10:39Speaker 00

  Ashley said though, the unkind thing is kind, they don't deserve credit for doing the unkind thing, but it is the kind, like, it's the kind thing to do. When I, you know, when people ask me when they want to break up with someone, what should I do? I'm like, don't, don't be mean, don't deliberately be mean, but don't be afraid to be the bad guy. You have to be the bad guy. It's the kind thing to do to be the, you want to be short, concise and direct and, and not that, like you don't want to be empathetic and you don't want to be there, you're not there, you're not their therapist, you're not their support system anymore. And I know that's very hard to do because you, you know, for some relationships, you are that person, but you, you have to disconnect and to the point of almost.

• 1:11:20Speaker 00

  The best breakup, I think honestly, the kindest breakup in the long run is when that person thinks like, they ask you like, you're so cold.

• 1:11:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's what I was thinking. Yeah, I don't even know who I'm talking to.

• 1:11:31Speaker 00

  I don't even know who I'm talking to. Like, you're doing it the right way.

• 1:11:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. Now that I'm thinking about this, and I love what Nick said about like that feeling of being embarrassed and like someone moving on. And I, it just, this like brought me back because now I'm remembering the way I used to feel when I would see my ex or whether we were off and on commenting on other girls Instagrams. And the feeling is, it takes over your body. Like when she says the devil took over, like I remember that. This is like washing over me how bad that felt. And so I want to like validate the feeling and hopefully our conversation has helped to realize like the root of it. But I also just want to tell her like, stop looking at that shit. Like you've got to self preserve. Like stop looking at the girls stuff.

• 1:12:07Speaker 00

  Number one, stop pretending you guys are going to be friends.

• 1:12:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  And that too. Those two things. Like you block him. Who cares? Then you won't see his comments. Like figure out how to not look at this stuff and certainly don't seek it out. Like know that you're seeking it out so you can feel hurt. You know, like your friends aren't really probably seeing this. You know, like you have seeked it out on these girls. Like stop the behavior.

• 1:12:28Speaker 00

  Also, there's something in there that she kind of like brushed over is that she insinuated that this is like not the first time they've broken up.

• 1:12:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right.

• 1:12:37Speaker 00

  So already in the back of her mind, part of her behavior is a result of she's not totally done. You know?

• 1:12:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes. Yes.

• 1:12:45Speaker 00

  If you got back together once, you can get to get back together twice. You know? And so she's obviously probably struggling with actually, is this really done? Or is this like a lot of her, you know, let's stay friends and how he's treating her now. You know, is this something they're going to have to argue about when they get back together? You know, just more baggage. And you know, I guess my only advice to that is like, stop doing these like mini breakups or breaks. Either work on your shit.

• 1:13:14Speaker 00

  You know, and you know, whether it's couples therapy, you know, it's like couples therapy is a lot less expensive than getting back together with someone over and over, you know? People always talk about, I guess, therapy is expensive for sure, but it's honestly way more expensive to waste all your energy on a person who doesn't want it. Honestly, you'd literally get a second job with the amount of energy some of us like, and I was that person, obsessively just looking at things that I shouldn't be or thinking about things. I was just hours, days, you know, like I could have made a lot of money doing that, you know? And like when you think about it that way and try to quantify it, you know, like, you know, it's just sometimes you gotta think about what not getting therapy costs you, you know?

• 1:13:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, and just stay off their social media. I can't stress it enough, like, the things that I have like gone on to see with an ex where I'll go to their social media and I'll see something they've posted about their ex-girlfriend will take me out for days. And it's like that game you played when you were a kid, like the floor is lava, their social media is lava. Don't go there, you're never gonna see something that you like and why expend your energy on it? I mean, I remember, there's been days of my life that have just been spent just being devastated about something that I shouldn't have looked at, you know? Okay. Okay, next email. I think you'll like this. I'm writing in for a psycho power move that I've not done yet because I can't decide which. We can still stop. We can still stop you. I can't decide which one it would be. Long story short, my boyfriend of a year and a half broke up with me very suddenly and

• 1:14:42Rayna Greenberg?

  then I found out a few weeks later that he had cheated on me with one of my friends and just didn't have the balls to tell me. I knew that he had cheated on other people in the past, but I gave him a chance anyway and now I feel like a clown. The question is, should I write a letter to his mom telling him what he did and has done under the cover of telling her he needs serious help? But also I want her to know who she raised. It would be a handwritten.

• 1:15:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, no, no, read that part. I'm reading it. Don't leave this out.

• 1:15:11Rayna Greenberg?

  I am not her biggest fan.

• 1:15:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  So she doesn't even like the mom. That's important.

• 1:15:14Rayna Greenberg?

  But she's not a fan of the art she created. You know what I mean? She doesn't like the art. She doesn't like the artist or the art.

• 1:15:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:15:21Rayna Greenberg?

  It would have been a handwritten mailed letter because I feel like it would just make the point better than text. Is it psycho or power move? Should I do it?

• 1:15:29Speaker 00

  Absolutely not. Oh my God, no.

• 1:15:32Rayna Greenberg?

  Can you imagine she delivers a handwritten letter?

• 1:15:34Speaker 00

  She's seen, well, that's what's so, and I, again, let's acknowledge that, like, these are very normal feelings and, you know.

• 1:15:40Rayna Greenberg?

  We've all thought, should I tell his mom?

• 1:15:41Speaker 00

  You're not a crazy person, but this is a crazy thing you're considering doing. And you're so blindsided with your rage that your perspective on this is literally the opposite of what it should be. The handwritten, no, you will look more crazy. You will look.

• 1:15:54Rayna Greenberg?

  So send the text. I'm kidding.

• 1:15:55Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, if you're gonna, yeah, like, I mean, everything she's talking about, she's like, the more energy I put into this, the more serious people will take me, you know? It's just like, also, I want to, for this, for all the ladies out there,

• 1:16:09Speaker 00

  I don't care how close you are with his mom.

• 1:16:11Rayna Greenberg?

  Amen. Go off.

• 1:16:12Speaker 00

  It's her son. She's not gonna take your side.

• 1:16:15Rayna Greenberg?

  Yep.

• 1:16:15Speaker 00

  She's not. Even if she yells at him, even if she's disgusted with his behavior, it's her son. And no mom needs you reaching out to tell her about how she was as a mother, first of all. That's not gonna go well. Second of all, like, you know, she's, you know, she's gonna protect her son, you know? And so you're just definitely wasting, wasting your energy. And I, yeah, I'm not any of the, I'm, I'm a great boyfriend. I will, I'm a great boyfriend. I'm not, I'm not a perfect guy. I'm annoying as fuck.

• 1:16:42Speaker 00

  I, I've pissed off a lot of girlfriends, like, I've definitely have given the ick, but like, I'm a good boyfriend, you know? But like, I remember, I've had girlfriends that have, you know, end the relationship. And my mom is a, is a great girlfriend mom. My mom is easy to be around, not opinionated. She's always nice. It's always important to have relationships with her son's girlfriends and things like that. And like, yeah, they would call my mom up and bitch bitch about me. And my mom was like, what are you doing? Like, what do you think you're doing? Like, do you really think I'm going to respond the way?

• 1:17:14Rayna Greenberg?

  What is the last person in the world that is ever going to take your side? And even if you get from somebody's mom, I can't believe he did that. He is going to explain it away to her. And you're going to come from the wrong person.

• 1:17:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:17:26Rayna Greenberg?

  That's not the person.

• 1:17:27Speaker 00

  Not gonna go the way you want to.

• 1:17:29Rayna Greenberg?

  You know when I went to my engagement party, I was with somebody for three and a half years. I was very close with his mom at my engagement party. She said to me, I'm so glad to have a daughter. I'm so happy. I couldn't imagine somebody better. We broke up the next day. I never fucking heard from her ever again. She was not on my side.

• 1:17:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:17:43Rayna Greenberg?

  She and I never expected her to be. My mom said to me, don't ever expect to hear from these people ever again. That's how it should be. That's how it is.

• 1:17:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. So I mean, every situation is different. You know, some people do stay in touch with the family. I think the family's loyalty is obviously the parents to their kid.

• 1:17:59Speaker 00

  Well, if that happens, it's always.

• 1:18:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, this is this is just, yeah, just no.

• 1:18:04Speaker 00

  You should, but if it does happen, there's exceptions to every rule, but like, just like when people try to stay friends with their ex, you're not doing it for genuine reasons. You're saying it to still stay connected, just in case. Another point I do want to make too, is this like, she mentioned that this person had cheated before. I am a big person. I, I think risks are important to take. You know, I think grace is important to offer to people. But like, if you're going to take a risk, recognize your risk and hold yourself accountable for the risk that you took. That doesn't mean that you emotionally beat yourself up if the, you know, when he cheats on you, oh, doesn't make you an idiot.

• 1:18:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:18:42Speaker 00

  That doesn't, no.

• 1:18:43Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. Cause she calls herself a clown and I, I just, I don't think you are.

• 1:18:46Speaker 00

  You took a chance on someone.

• 1:18:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Totally.

• 1:18:47Speaker 00

  But you did take a chance. So you're not a clown, but don't, don't react like, like you're shocked either.

• 1:18:55Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:56Speaker 00

  Don't react like you couldn't, you didn't see it coming, or you can't believe it happened. Don't write his mom a letter to explain, you know, some, that she raised a cheater. Yeah. God only knows why he did this, or what trauma he's experienced.

• 1:19:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's the tone that it would be. I just also want to validate the way you feel crazy and she will probably.

• 1:19:14Rayna Greenberg?

  Up with her friend. So

• 1:19:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  Totally. No, but like she knows she shouldn't do this. That's why she wrote an email to us about it, you know, or she had already done the letter. So she will look back on this and be like, I can't believe I considered that. I mean, again, we can't stress enough. Like, we look back at some of our past behavior and be like, who was that person? You're completely overcome by all these different emotions. So I just want to validate because she's thinking of like, what is the meanest thing I can do? And I think we've felt those feelings before when you feel so hurt and betrayed by somebody. So

• 1:19:39Speaker 00

  I'm willing to bet she didn't, he didn't sleep with a friend, but an acquaintance.

• 1:19:42Rayna Greenberg?

  So not a close friend.

• 1:19:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's funny that you said that because I, when I read the email, I thought not a close friend.

• 1:19:47Speaker 00

  She kind of glossed over the front part.

• 1:19:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, yes, absolutely.

• 1:19:50Speaker 00

  Slipped in there. And if it was like a dear friend.

• 1:19:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  It wasn't, it's not a dear friend. I can feel that.

• 1:19:53Speaker 00

  There would be.

• 1:19:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  I can feel it's not like best friend.

• 1:19:56Speaker 00

  It was still like someone he shouldn't be fucking with.

• 1:19:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes. Well, I think we're all validating that this is really painful, but I don't think that this is going to do for you what you think it is by contacting his family.

• 1:20:06Speaker 00

  And not, not that I'm in the business of giving this guy any credit, but again, thinking of silver lining, but like, yeah, it's just he, he at least ended the relationship. He at least, you know, he was too chicken to tell me. I guess, sure, but at least he didn't try to keep the relationship going and lie and do it behind your back or like, and at least imagine if you found out that he had cheated on you a year ago. And, you know, like, I don't know. It's just like, you do have to find this to like everything we've been talking about this past hour. It's just like part of working through all this pain and these triggering moments is to find the silver lining. I mean, one thing getting older and being more emotionally regulated has taught me, it's just like, and

• 1:20:47Speaker 00

  honestly, like, when I think about what I do on Ask Nick, when people call me in and it's like every episode, I'm like, I'm not a fucking therapist. I don't diagnose you. Just be careful. You know, like, I'm always kind of couching what I say just in case. But like, the truth is, like, A, I'm just sharing my advice from a lived experience that I have, but all I am doing with people is I am just simply offering them a different perspective from someone who's not emotionally involved. Everyone who's writing in is emotionally triggered, they're emotionally involved, they're seeing the situation through, you know, blinders. And every situation we go into, there's always a different way to look at something. There is always a silver lining. And sometimes you have to reach for that silver lining. But finding those silver linings is a great way to get through some of the shit.

• 1:21:32Speaker 00

  You know, and if you find yourself unwilling to look for the silver linings, then that is a sign that you are holding on to the pain. That is a sign, not only that you can't let it go, but you're unwilling to. Because anyone can consider the possibility of a silver lining.

• 1:21:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  I like that. And yes, these two scenarios, he broke up with me suddenly. And I found out later that he had slept with somebody else. And I am still with him and found out he cheated on me are very different. And so he ended the relationship. I didn't know where you were going to go with that, but I'm with you.

• 1:22:03Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. All right. We have one last one. A little cuckoo.

• 1:22:07Speaker 00

  We love cuckoo.

• 1:22:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. My friends hated my ex. So when I told them I was finally breaking up with him, I gave them the password to my camera app. So they could watch the breakup.

• 1:22:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  I covered the recording light with a black sticker so he wouldn't notice. And they watched the whole cringey hour of it. Afterwards, I went over to their house and we laughed and talked shit about it. And they gave me notes. The way I would tune into that.

• 1:22:30Rayna Greenberg?

  I would sell tickets.

• 1:22:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  This would be behind a paywall. This would be on a Patreon.

• 1:22:35Speaker 00

  I kind of love it. I mean, is it mean and petty for sure? But like, I'm going to assume that he was undeserving of her and probably a douchebag dick kind of boyfriend. And there's valid reasons why they didn't like this guy.

• 1:22:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  If you guys are doing this, send us the login.

• 1:22:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, we want to do it on a Zoom. We'll do it in a girl's getting live show. That'll be the show. We'll sell tickets. We'll give you a part of the proceeds.

• 1:22:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean, I guess it is like violating privacy.

• 1:22:59Speaker 00

  I mean, let's just like, let's just all acknowledge it's probably not, okay.

• 1:23:05Rayna Greenberg?

  This also sounds like you're probably in college. You know, like, I don't think, like, if Ashley was like.

• 1:23:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  She's 35. Could you die? I need to know.

• 1:23:13Rayna Greenberg?

  I do want to hold there.

• 1:23:14Speaker 00

  They either or. I think a 35 year old is capable of such a thing.

• 1:23:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  I cannot, like, you know what I'm picturing is the, um, we'll put this on the screen, is the Impractical Jokers, like, meme of them behind the camera, you know?

• 1:23:25Speaker 00

  I know what to say.

• 1:23:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  They're all just like laughing. Yes, like, everybody's got their popcorn out. Like, I'm sorry, this is insane. Like, no, it's not right to do, but I-

• 1:23:33Rayna Greenberg?

  If I got to watch this-

• 1:23:34Speaker 00

  That would be great, though, if you could help a friend break up with, like, having-

• 1:23:37Rayna Greenberg?

  With an earpiece?

• 1:23:37Speaker 00

  With an earpiece.

• 1:23:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  Also, I feel like- She's got it. I think she had it covered.

• 1:23:41Rayna Greenberg?

  If I was the girl doing the breakup, the show I would put on for people, I'd be telling jokes. I'd have a whole set. I'd be doing bits.

• 1:23:49Speaker 00

  You think he was crying?

• 1:23:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. Yeah, I'd have different camera angles. I'm like, we need the camera on him for when he starts to cry. Like, I would have a whole production set up. I'd be like, Anna, edit this later. Let's send it off.

• 1:23:59Speaker 00

  I just hope, just a little bit, she has just, for her own humanity, I hope she has just the smallest amount of guilt, because it is mean.

• 1:24:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes. Filming stuff, I mean-

• 1:24:09Rayna Greenberg?

  The way I'd look at the camera and make a face.

• 1:24:11Speaker 00

  I really hope this guy was an asshole, too.

• 1:24:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  We, you, Raina, you break the fourth wall. You just wink at your friends.

• 1:24:18Speaker 00

  Especially when, like, you deliver a line, you're like-

• 1:24:21Rayna Greenberg?

  I give him, like, the okay with my fingers. I'm like, yep, got him!

• 1:24:25Speaker 00

  You're just like-

• 1:24:28Rayna Greenberg?

  He might drop.

• 1:24:29Speaker 00

  Like, what, did you just drop a mic?

• 1:24:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, just don't know, no, don't worry about it. Like, bye, bitch. And you're like, you tell your friends, you're like, I'll see you in an hour. He's like, who are you talking to?

• 1:24:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. No, filming people is not okay. Like, we've heard of people, like, turning their voice memo on or their camera to film people. It's not okay to film people without their consent, just as, as a role.

• 1:24:48Rayna Greenberg?

  You could get sued, Tom Sandoval.

• 1:24:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  But the way that then she went over and they got to recap it?

• 1:24:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's a moment they will share forever.

• 1:24:58Rayna Greenberg?

  I want you forever. I hope somebody does this for me.

• 1:25:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  I think she's like the icon in her friend group. I feel like her name's Ashley.

• 1:25:05Speaker 00

  They call her mother.

• 1:25:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  She's got some basic bitch name like Ashley. Like you know she does. Oh my gosh. No, it's, yeah. Can't, filming people without their consent. I don't know how to answer this one. Psycho or power move like this.

• 1:25:18Rayna Greenberg?

  It's just funny. We like the story. If somebody did it to me.

• 1:25:21Speaker 00

  Oh my god. For the purposes of this game, it's a power move because no one was really hurt. I'm assuming, I hope.

• 1:25:27Rayna Greenberg?

  This went nowhere.

• 1:25:28Speaker 00

  He didn't find out about it.

• 1:25:30Rayna Greenberg?

  He's funny.

• 1:25:30Speaker 00

  So it's a victimless crime.

• 1:25:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  But the thought of having it done to me makes me want to throw up.

• 1:25:34Speaker 00

  It's definitely mean. It's bully behavior slightly. Again, especially if we just like, I would hate if these girls didn't like him just because they thought he was like a loser or gave him the ick and they were just kind of mocking.

• 1:25:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  My friends hate my ex. Yeah, I mean.

• 1:25:48Speaker 00

  But if it was like, he was just like a video game playing, you know, guy who never appreciated her.

• 1:25:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, it makes me sick.

• 1:25:55Speaker 00

  Then, you know.

• 1:25:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes. It just, when I think about this, I could cry. You know, if I think about someone breaking up with me, filming it, his friends get to log in, like the thought of it genuinely makes me sick. So again, that's a matter of like, do to others what you'd want done to you, but listen, I still would be tuning in.

• 1:26:11Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:11Speaker 00

  But it, it's not crazy.

• 1:26:14Rayna Greenberg?

  If it goes. It's a little crazy.

• 1:26:17Speaker 00

  You know, crazy, like our other stories, it was like, I lost my shit and I did this thing that you're just like, why would you do that? And I think we all kind of in agreement while like, we're trying to like acknowledge what's wrong and put ourselves in other shoes. Like this was a well thought out, executed plan.

• 1:26:33Rayna Greenberg?

  There was passwords exchanged.

• 1:26:35Speaker 00

  Composure and like, there was like that.

• 1:26:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  And I just hope.

• 1:26:38Speaker 00

  Not crazy.

• 1:26:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  Here's what I hope.

• 1:26:40Speaker 00

  Wrong, maybe.

• 1:26:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  What I think would be really mean is if she told him. But again, we don't know. This guy could be the worst person on the planet. I hope he never finds out.

• 1:26:47Speaker 00

  I hope he never finds out.

• 1:26:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 1:26:48Speaker 00

  And that's what I'm saying, a victimless crime.

• 1:26:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes. And again, he could be the worst person in the world. We just don't know. But I.

• 1:26:54Speaker 00

  I'm gonna, I wanna, I'm gonna tell myself, he's a terrible boyfriend.

• 1:26:57Rayna Greenberg?

  Terrible. Yes.

• 1:26:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  It doesn't sound like she then said like, by the way, we all watched that he, he, he, you know.

• 1:27:02Rayna Greenberg?

  I think when all your friends hate your boyfriend, he's probably pretty shitty to you. I think he's inconsistent. He doesn't show up for you, talks down to you. I'm telling myself, he was terrible to her and this went nowhere. You went and talked to your couple girlfriends about this after. No one else, except for hundreds of thousands of people listening right now, ever found out.

• 1:27:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Also, they, they laughed and talked shit and they gave me notes. What are the notes?

• 1:27:22Rayna Greenberg?

  I need more. You could have been funnier.

• 1:27:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  Call into Ask Nick. We need more. Okay. Well, I hope you enjoyed the conversation, you guys. And Nick, we hope you had a good time. Thanks for having me.

• 1:27:34Rayna Greenberg?

  You guys have to tune into his podcast three times a week. Yeah.

• 1:27:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, plug all your stuff.

• 1:27:38Speaker 00

  Well, we do Ask Nick on Mondays, which is very, it's all relationship driven. People write in with their stories. Most of them are very relatable. A lot of like people calling because they can't move on from their situation ship or having a hard time moving out from a boyfriend or just having a hard time dating, all the above. And sometimes you get crazy stories like not too long ago, a woman called in because she was on OnlyFans and her husband wanted her to get off. Last, the other day, I just talked to someone whose new boyfriend got back on the dating apps to sell insurance to women. You know, so some of them are kind of outlandish.

• 1:28:11Rayna Greenberg?

  Guerrilla marketing.

• 1:28:12Speaker 00

  Yeah. You want, no, seriously. So, yeah, so if you're looking for just both fascinating stories and some maybe, maybe sage advice, that's on Monday. Tuesdays and Thursdays, we have a reality recap, which is very much the kind of your variety show where we talk about pop culture and cover a variety of reality TV shows. And then Wednesday, when we have a worthy guest, we have our Going Deeper episodes where like Gypsy Rose or your big reality TV stars or there's one coming up I'm really excited about.

• 1:28:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  When will it drop? You can say it if it's gonna.

• 1:28:43Speaker 00

  It hasn't happened yet.

• 1:28:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:28:45Speaker 00

  But there's been an agreement.

• 1:28:46Rayna Greenberg?

  I will speculate wildly.

• 1:28:48Speaker 00

  Maybe December.

• 1:28:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 1:28:49Speaker 00

  Yeah. But yeah, so, and we like to go deep and just really get to know our guests and kind of humanize them in a way that maybe you didn't get a chance to see. So, and that's on Wednesday. Then we have Vip Plus, but yeah, where we recap and you're gonna come on.

• 1:29:02Rayna Greenberg?

  I want to come on and do it. Okay. Well, you guys have tons of stuff to listen to on the Viall Files. Also buy his book, Don't Text Your Ex. Happy birthday. And that's it.

• 1:29:09Speaker 00

  Great to see you ladies.

• 1:29:10Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 1:29:11Speaker 00

  So happy for all your success. Love your show.

• 1:29:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  And you too. And you guys know where to find us, girlsgottaeat.com to get tour tickets this weekend. We will be in Denver, Minneapolis and Madison. So we can't wait to see you guys. Western cowgirl theme. Dress up, come out.

• 1:29:26Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:27Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, yeah. That's where Nick's from.

• 1:29:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. Maybe Nick will be there.

• 1:29:30Rayna Greenberg?

  Come to Madison.

• 1:29:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  We'll be at the Orpheum. So grab tickets, girlsgottaeat.com, girlsgottaeatpodcast on Instagram and TikTok. I'm Ash Hess. Raina is Rayna Greenberg. Subscribe on YouTube. Share this episode with a friend and we will see you Thursday.

• 1:29:43Rayna Greenberg?

  Have a good week, guys.

• 1:29:44Speaker 00

  Bye.