Tuning in to Science on TV, with Mayim Bialik

Is science trending on TV and in pop culture? Could that encourage women to get into STEM? Find out from Neil Tyson and his guests Mayim Bialik, Summer Ash, Taryn O’Neill and co-host Chris Hardwick. Also with Mona Chalabi, Chuck Nice and Bill Nye.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome to the whole of the universe of the American Museum of National History, right here in New York City. I'm your host of tonight's StarTalk. Neil deGrasse Tyson, your personal astrophysicist. And tonight, we're featuring my interview with actress Mayim Bialik. She plays a neuroscientist on the hit TV show The Big Bang Theory. And she not only plays a neuroscientist, she is a neuroscientist. She got a PhD in the subject. So, that will be the basis of our conversation on the portrayal of science on TV. So let's do this. And I never do this alone. I can't do this alone. I gotta bring in help. My co-host comedian tonight is Chris Hardwick.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  Hello.

• 0:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The one, the only.

• 0:48Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 0:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And you don't only go by Chris Hardwick, you go by The Nerdist.

• 0:52Speaker 01

  Nerdist, yeah, that was the website that I started and the podcast and everything.

• 0:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, thanks. You turned being a nerd into a community. You were early out of the box doing this.

• 1:02Speaker 01

  I mean, I, you know, I don't know if I, I think a lot of proto-nerds would disagree with that. I did...

• 1:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's a thing, a proto-nerd.

• 1:11Speaker 01

  A proto-nerd.

• 1:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Not yet fully formed. Proto-planet.

• 1:14Speaker 01

  No, I mean, like, the early, the early days, like, the old-school nerds. I mean, it just, when I was growing up in the 80s, you know...

• 1:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Revenge of the Nerds.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  Revenge of the Nerds, exactly. I was in chess club and math club and computer classes and I got my first computer in 1981. And so it was not a cool thing to do at the time. We were socially ostracized. And so, now it's kinda cool and science is for everyone and nerd stuff is for everyone. And so, I just kinda helped try to be as inclusive as possible.

• 1:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And to create that community.

• 1:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He's feeling it.

• 1:42Speaker 01

  I am.

• 1:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He's feeling the love. And my, my special guest this evening, Summer Ash. Summer! Hello. You, you come to us up from Columbia University, where... Yeah, not far away. Not far away, a subway ride, we can easily afford that. And you, you run the outreach program of the astronomy department there. By the way, that's the department where I got my PhD. But Summer, we, we have you on the show because you are also a big advocate of STEM. I am. Science, technology, engineering, and math. And particularly, women in STEM. Women in STEM as well, alright.

• 2:13Speaker 01

  You have a superhero's name, you know that, right? Summer Ash is like...

• 2:15Speaker 02

  I had not thought of that.

• 2:17Speaker 01

  That's like a comic book... You know what's gonna happen? You're gonna have some awesome lab accident and get superpowers.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  And you're gonna go fight crime, and now I'm gonna say I knew you when.

• 2:27Speaker 02

  I already have a bionic heart, actually.

• 2:30Speaker 01

  Are you serious? How did that happen?

• 2:32Speaker 02

  I had heart surgery three and a half years ago.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  That's amazing!

• 2:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wait, but you have a glowing thing in the middle of your...

• 2:37Speaker 01

  You have an arc reactor like Tony Stark?

• 2:39Speaker 02

  Not yet, we could probably...

• 2:39Speaker 01

  That's awesome! I hope you're okay, by the way. Now, we're making jokes about this. I hope you're alright.

• 2:47Speaker 02

  I'm good.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  Alright.

• 2:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, the two of you together will help me do this, right? Talk about the role of science on television. We've got my interview with Mayim Bialik. The Big Bang Theory, it's one of the most successful shows on television. Began in 2007, and it's...

• 3:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I don't know if I can explain it before I show you a clip of who the characters are on this show. Let's check it out.

• 3:16Speaker 03

  Aren't you slicing that man's brain a little too thin?

• 3:24Mayim Bialik?

  It's too thin if I were making a foot-long brain sandwich at Quiznos.

• 3:29Mayim Bialik?

  For examination under a two-photon microscope, it's fine.

• 3:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So what we have there is a set of sort of overachieving scientists, and it started out with guys in this role, and then they slowly introduced women over the years. The show is in its eighth or ninth season, going strong. And one of the characters we just saw introduced was Mayim Bialik. And I wanted to ask her about her early experience with science. While I know already she became a scientist, but she's an actress. So, as is often the case on StarTalk, I try to get to the bottom of how people became who they are, and to see what role science may have played in it. Let's check it out.

• 4:14Mayim Bialik?

  It wasn't until I was later in high school that I had my first biology tutor who sort of gave me the confidence that I could be a scientist.

• 4:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So it's a tutor because you're acting?

• 4:25Mayim Bialik?

  Correct. So I was on this show Blossom.

• 4:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, you were Blossom.

• 4:28Mayim Bialik?

  I was Blossom.

• 4:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  On the show Blossom. You were Blossom. Make that clear.

• 4:33Mayim Bialik?

  Correct. But once I met this woman who was my biology tutor, that was sort of my real kind of coming out party of believing that I could be a scientist. I didn't even have the skill set because I had I had been paying attention all the previous years in math and science, but really just doing what I needed to to get by. I didn't really understand the beauty of science and math and that whole world until I was later into high school. And then obviously pursuing it in college was, you know, it was a party.

• 5:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So this saddens me. You know why? Not your story, but the fact.

• 5:06Mayim Bialik?

  I've heard that before.

• 5:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, no, no. That if that single person

• 5:12Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 5:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  made a life difference to you.

• 5:15Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 5:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  How many people are missing that single person who can make a life difference?

• 5:20Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, I can, I'm sure we could all run the stats on it. Many girls is the first answer.

• 5:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's the first answer.

• 5:26Mayim Bialik?

  And that's because, I mean, that's because of a historical difference in the representation of women in these fields and probably a cultural bias on the part of teachers and instructors and even administration.

• 5:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  How much intellectual capital lay untapped in this world?

• 5:45Mayim Bialik?

  Do you want a number?

• 5:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, come on, I want the number, come on.

• 5:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I want numbers.

• 5:52Mayim Bialik?

  Burz, give me numbers.

• 5:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Don't just say it. I don't have them. I think it's a... Wait, wait, wait. This is StarTalk. We don't leave you numberless when we can put numbers in this situation. You have the numbers? I have the power. I shouldn't have doubted you for a second. No, I don't have the power to give you the numbers. I have the power to get someone to give you them. That's how that works. I have the power to listen to those numbers. So Mona, can I get some numbers, please? All right.

• 6:18Speaker 05

  Hi Neil.

• 6:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Everyone, this is Mona Chalabi. She's a data journalist. Did you even know that thing existed? Mona, you've got some numbers for us to bring some of this into focus.

• 6:28Speaker 05

  I do. I wanted to try and answer Mayim's question as directly as possible. So I wanted to find out how many female scientists America is missing. And the number that I came to is 80,000.

• 6:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Missing, meaning they might have been scientists, but some force prevented that from happening?

• 6:44Speaker 05

  Exactly, exactly. And I just took biologists, chemists, and a category called other natural scientists. And I worked out how many women you would need to just get to a 50/50 gender split. And that's when I got 80,000.

• 6:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So when you say 80,000, it's just 80,000 in those professions?

• 7:00Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 7:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're leaving out engineering and physics and...

• 7:04Speaker 05

  Mathematics.

• 7:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mathematics and all the rest of this.

• 7:07Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 7:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, but presumably, equal access, equal opportunity, doesn't require equal outcome. So that missing number presumes that if everything were even, then everything would be even?

• 7:22Speaker 05

  Right, but we know that we don't have equal access, right? Mayim touched on it in the clip, and it's really, really relevant. So I also looked at some of the cultural barriers that stop women from going into the sciences. Now, we know that statistically, women are less likely to be hired by science faculty. They're less likely to be asked to perform mathematical tasks. And they're less likely to have their academic papers deemed of high quality. And I know that last bit because of research by a female scientist called Emma Pearson. Now, what Emma did was she looked at 938,301 academic scientific papers. And she found that the average male scientist publishes 45% more papers than the average female scientist.

• 8:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So you're saying we're messed up? That's what you're saying?

• 8:05Speaker 05

  Sorry, sorry.

• 8:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  How to be messed up in numbers. Numbers are showing how messed up you are.

• 8:10Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 8:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, Mona, thank you.

• 8:12Speaker 05

  Thanks Neil.

• 8:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, we summoned you from the dark, okay?

• 8:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mona Chalabi, thank you. Sort of thank you for the bad news. Yeah, yeah, thank you, yeah, yeah. Next time, bring some good news, please. So, Summer, is this consistent with your life experience?

• 8:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  So what are some of the solutions? Is it creating mentoring programs, or is it taking active roles in your...

• 8:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, I can tell you this, Chris, that if we are all products in some way, even if only subliminally, of pop culture, then it seems to me... More visible people who have succeeded would matter.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  To culture and to pop culture. So in television, we went for decades with no women portraying scientists. Just as an example. Because can you be one if you don't see one?

• 9:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 9:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You know, in fact, I remember growing up, I, it was clear that no one was thinking of me to be an Apollo astronaut, you know? They just looked really different from how I looked. I don't know what I remember. So, so, so I, I think that matters.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  I, I also think it would be interesting that, you know, because before we're relying on the media. You're relying on big companies, big media companies run by older men a lot of the time, who are just going, ah, put that on there. But now with social media, with YouTube, with, with Snapchat, with Facebook, I feel like is, is some of the onus on people who are already scientists to start becoming those role models in social media themselves, rather than relying on big media to catch up?

• 9:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  To choose what role model that anyone would have.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, that's an interest. So the real people are becoming the real role models.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  The real people are becoming the real role models and that's, that's exactly what built, built YouTube culture, so.

• 9:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So Summer, did you, can you point to individual people who, who role, served as your role model going up, as did Mayim?

• 9:59Speaker 02

  Oh, that's interesting. Um, well, so actually, I think I had many, but um, I was kind of born excited about science. And within a month of each other, the movies Top Gun and Space Camp came out. And I pretty much saw both of them and I was like, yes to all, like, yes, yes.

• 10:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Ah.

• 10:16Speaker 02

  Um, and if you think about it, in those movies, obviously Top Gun is male dominated, but Kelly McGillis has a PhD in astrophysics.

• 10:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, because every astrophysicist is an expert on an F-14 plane.

• 10:26Speaker 02

  Which is a little bit weird.

• 10:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's a stretch.

• 10:27Speaker 02

  But who cares? We didn't question it, it was the eighties. They played volleyball.

• 10:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 10:32Speaker 02

  It's the first time I heard of that, so like that helped. Um, and then for Top Gun, you have, um, I'm not going to remember the actress's name, but um, the lead woman who's already a jet pilot and an astronaut candidate.

• 10:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You mean in the other, you mean Space Camp?

• 10:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Space Camp, yeah.

• 10:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then you have Lee Thompson and Kelly Preston, and they're both playing women that are interested in science, and the three of them are the main part of the movie. It's fantastic.

• 10:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I got this question. Is what can ordinary people do? So as a guy who's not a scientist, what can I do to help? Like, do you have suggestions for how just ordinary people who are not scientists or educators can help, you know?

• 11:10Speaker 02

  Help improve women in STEM?

• 11:11Speaker 01

  Help improve women in STEM? Help improve people getting involved?

• 11:14Speaker 02

  Well, I think the one big thing is that call out barriers when you see them. So if you see people that are expressing a sort of sexism or doubts about women's capability or people of color's capability to do these things.

• 11:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So it's an extra pair of eyes out there?

• 11:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  To, to, to?

• 11:29Speaker 02

  Speak up.

• 11:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  To monitor the perimeter.

• 11:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 11:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 11:32Speaker 02

  Teach your bros.

• 11:34Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 11:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So what I continue to do with Mayim is explore how is it she became an actress? Because I know she got a PhD in neuroscience, but she actually started as an actress and was well-known at age 14.

• 11:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, most child stars don't even complete a traditional education program, much less go on to get a PhD.

• 11:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right, right. So I said, "Why, he, you could have just kept going." And, but she didn't. She stepped out and then stepped back in. I had to get to the bottom of that. Let's check it out.

• 12:10Mayim Bialik?

  I come from an immigrant background. My grandparents were immigrants to this country, and college was emphasized over everything else, no matter what. So it was, you know, it was, I mean, on my mom's side, my grandmother, I don't think she finished middle school. My grandfather didn't finish middle school. So, you know, they came to America and they worked in sweatshops. And so I was raised with like a go-to-college mentality, even if you think you're a big shot because you were on TV.

• 12:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So you had the expectations of generations of your ancestors?

• 12:39Mayim Bialik?

  Correct.

• 12:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Requiring that you go to college?

• 12:41Mayim Bialik?

  Because the American dream is staring you right in the face. You know, they left war for this. So I guess the notion of being a child actor didn't feel like I was satisfying, honestly, the historical and cultural dream of thousands of years of exile. Whereas going to college and, you know, pursuing something that was very challenging academically, that felt, that felt like it was going to be more satisfying as a human being, you know, than being a famous person.

• 13:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, so, I looked up the title of her PhD dissertation.

• 13:22Speaker 02

  What was it?

• 13:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  "The Hypothalamic Regulation in Relation to Maladaptive, Obsessive Compulsive, Affiliative, and Satyity Behaviors in Praden-Willi Syndrome."

• 13:34Speaker 01

  I wrote a very similar paper this week. Job on Talking Dead.

• 13:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  A lot of syndromes going on in Talking Dead. Surely one of them was that.

• 13:44Speaker 01

  One of them, yeah, we're just trying to solve the zombie crisis.

• 13:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, this is a genetic disorder. It turns out that there's a chromosomal deletion in the person where you can literally eat yourself to death. There's nothing to regulate your appetite. You just keep eating until you die and there's no cure. And so, she studied this. So neurologically, you can ask, can you overcome that? Can you fix it? Can you repair it genetically later on? This is, it's an unresolved frontier. And so, she was in it. That's... Now, she went to UCLA.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  I went to UCLA.

• 14:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And you went to UCLA.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. I was on a different side of campus than she.

• 14:27Speaker 01

  I was on the philosophy quad.

• 14:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But, so, I heard rumored that you roomed with Will Wheaton?

• 14:34Speaker 01

  Will Wheaton, yeah, we've been friends since college. Will and I have been friends since college.

• 14:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Cool. And he was the child actor in...

• 14:40Speaker 01

  He was in Stand by Me.

• 14:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In Stand by Me.

• 14:42Speaker 01

  And some Crusher. He always saved the Enterprise whenever there was imminent danger.

• 14:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, when it was time for a kid to save, to do...

• 14:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly, it was time for a kid.

• 14:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He was also a child actor.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  He was a child actor, yeah.

• 14:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, and he's actually cameoed many times on The Big Bang Theory.

• 14:55Speaker 01

  And he's a brilliant, he's a brilliant man and a wonderful human being.

• 14:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, so...

• 14:59Speaker 02

  I went to school with a child actor too.

• 15:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Who's that?

• 15:02Speaker 02

  Fred Savage was in my year.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  What? Fred's awesome!

• 15:05Speaker 02

  But I just want to point out that Fred does not have a PhD in science, but...

• 15:08Speaker 01

  Danica McKellar!

• 15:09Speaker 02

  ...our Danica McKellar does.

• 15:11Speaker 01

  Is a mathematician.

• 15:12Speaker 02

  And, she's the only out of over 100 female people, female actresses, but who is also a scientist to guest star on Big Bang Theory.

• 15:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh!

• 15:23Speaker 02

  So we need to fix that, because 1 out of 100, not good enough.

• 15:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, more on the fusion of science and pop culture through the lens of television, when StarTalk continues.

• 15:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome back to StarTalk. We are featuring my interview with actress Mayim Bialik. She is the neuroscientist on the hit TV series The Big Bang Theory. And I asked her about the portrayal of women scientists. Is it good, is it bad, is it working? Let's check it out.

• 16:03Mayim Bialik?

  We did an episode where Bernadette poses for a sexy scientist photo shoot. And Amy has a very big problem.

• 16:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I remember that episode.

• 16:12Mayim Bialik?

  And it's something that I'm asked about a lot because I do advocacy for STEM and young women. And I'm often asked, you know, what do you think about the, you know, the white starch shirt open with the black bra and the glasses down and the red lips? And, you know, and to me, I don't knock women or scientists who want to do that. For me, that's not the way that I choose to portray women in science. You know, I don't think we need to take our clothes off, you know, to show that women in science can also take their clothes off. But I think, you know, part of the advocacy that I try and do is to put a fresh face, you know, a positive face and a female face on these subjects. I think that a lot of also what's missing from trying to engage young women is not just the sex factor or the attractiveness factor,

• 16:54Mayim Bialik?

  which I do agree might be more important in this day and age than it might have been 10 or 20 or 50 years ago. But I think also that a lot of women don't know the kinds of careers that are available to them. And people picture themselves, or at least I did. I don't want to be alone in a lab for the rest of my life. I don't want to be in a nerdy lab coat and ugly glasses for the rest of my... And that's what, when I was in elementary school and junior high, that's what I thought it was. But when I got older and I understood, oh, marine biology is actually being a scientist, working in the field, working with animals, working in the environment. You know, all those things are also science. If you like engineering and you want to do coding, knock yourself out. But there are many careers that involve a lot of creativity and a lot of being out and about.

• 17:36Mayim Bialik?

  And that's, I think, what we need to try and communicate to girls as young as possible.

• 17:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So the Bernadette character that she refers to is one of the other scientists on the show. This is the assembly of women that the show accreted over the years, having been male-dominated in its first few seasons. I'm just curious, Summer, were you able to resonate with those sentiments at all?

• 17:59Speaker 02

  Well, I think the problem is that too often, women in science are stereotyped at those extremes. Or women get stereotyped at those extremes. And so you have like the nerdy ones, and then you have like the girly girly ones. But there's an entire spectrum in between. You're missing the entire middle. And science is a human endeavor. People do science. And people come in all shapes, sizes, genders, races, identities. And so I think the important thing is to allow scientists to be portrayed as all those different things.

• 18:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  One of the other characters, her name is Penny. She's an attractive woman who lives across the hall, who is not a scientist. Well, when she heard that Bernadette was gonna be in a magazine, Sexy Women in Science, I've got the quote from the show, "Maybe if fashion magazines had female scientists in them, I would have become a theoretical physicist." And I was struck by it. I'd never heard it quite put that way. And I'm wondering, is that sentence embraced or rejected as a means of possibly attracting women into science?

• 19:02Speaker 02

  Well, I think all avenues for attracting women into science should be taken.

• 19:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But you know, there's certainly people who would object to that.

• 19:09Speaker 02

  Absolutely. But there would be people that would object to the fact. There's also this part of the culture that says that you shouldn't dress sexy, or you shouldn't care about fashion, or you can't be both that and a scientist. And you can. And so I just feel like it needs to be communicated to girls, that they can be anything they want and a scientist. So they can care about whatever they want and do science.

• 19:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So there's a way to analyze films and how women are portrayed. Do you know about the Bechdel test?

• 19:35Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 19:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Of films?

• 19:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 19:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Fascinating. If I can recite it accurately, it's... If a film has at least two women in it, who speak to one another about a subject that has nothing to do with a man.

• 19:51Speaker 02

  There's one more.

• 19:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It passes the Bechdel test.

• 19:53Speaker 02

  They have to be named.

• 19:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Named.

• 19:55Speaker 02

  So you can't just have two people at the start of a film.

• 19:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  On a street corner, okay.

• 19:58Speaker 02

  Exactly, and then go to your main story.

• 20:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Speaking to one another on a subject that has nothing to do with men.

• 20:03Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 20:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It is astonishing how many films fail that test.

• 20:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's tragic. It is a famous film.

• 20:10Speaker 01

  When you start noticing it.

• 20:11Speaker 02

  It's like forty percent.

• 20:12Speaker 01

  When you start noticing it, you start feeling sad.

• 20:14Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  Because every movie, you're like, not this one too.

• 20:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I know, that was my favorite movie.

• 20:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, come on.

• 20:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, because it turns out a lot of movies that do have a lot of women characters, but then they're not talking to each other.

• 20:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:26Speaker 02

  They're only ever talking to men.

• 20:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so Summer, you do science, and Mayim is both a scientist and an actress, plays one on TV, and then there's Taryn O'Neil. So she's an actress who's not a scientist, but she's on a mission to share science with women. And we have her standing by live on video call. I think we, do we have her on already? Is Taryn there? Taryn, hello.

• 20:51Speaker 06

  Hi.

• 20:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so you're, you're a science fiction actor, writer, producer? So you, you know explicitly, because you're in the business, how potent such roles can be as an influence on society?

• 21:07Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think that if you can show different characteristics of women on the space station, on a boat, where they're, you know, where they're a marine biologist, where they are at CERN, at the Large Hadron Collider, because they're particle physicists, where they don't have to be in the lab, they can be in the Amazon because they're an entomologist. I think the more narratives we can create around a female scientist, especially in media, will really encourage young girls to, and, and boys too, that science isn't in this little box, it's not in this ivory tower. It's everywhere because science is life.

• 21:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's, that's a StarTalk motto right there. And how, how did you get interested in, in science at all?

• 21:51Speaker 06

  You know, I produced a sci-fi web series which inspired me to start writing my own sci-fi. And I went down the rabbit hole. I wanted to make my fiction as theoretically feasible as possible. And I basically came out this science convert where I fell in love with the laws of nature that govern our existence. I want to know everything.

• 22:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I fell in love with the laws of nature that govern our existence. That is the quote of the show. Taryn, thanks for being on StarTalk.

• 22:21Speaker 06

  Thank you for having me.

• 22:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right. Next on StarTalk, our man Chuck Nice hits the streets and he asks random passersby what they know about women in science. StarTalk continues.

• 22:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome back to StarTalk. For this show, we've been talking about how women in science are portrayed. And part of how we came to understand that is going to Chuck Nice, one of our Met About Town, talking to the man in the street. Let's check it out.

• 23:06Chuck Nice?

  That's right, Neil. Here on the streets of New York City, talking to men and women about women in science. Come on, come on, come on. Name a famous female scientist from any point in history. Marie Curie? Okay, name two more. Oh, Jesus. Can anybody name a female scientist? Anybody? Female scientist. Name one.

• 23:25Speaker 08

  Oh, my God. Who's that lady who made the like?

• 23:32Chuck Nice?

  Marie Curie, very good. Female scientist. Not at all. Blank. Zippo. Zilch. How can we get more girls into science?

• 23:42Speaker 09

  I think we just need to make it more accessible. Like, right now, everyone just kind of assumes it's a boy's job. I think a lot of times, girls are told that they have to abide by some kind of rule, where they have to be girly, and they have to be into fashion, and things like that. Girls shouldn't feel boyish for wanting to play with a chemistry so when they're little.

• 24:01Chuck Nice?

  Or blow things up.

• 24:01Speaker 09

  Exactly.

• 24:02Chuck Nice?

  Right. It's totally female to blow things up.

• 24:04Speaker 09

  Exactly.

• 24:05Chuck Nice?

  Ask my wife.

• 24:07Speaker 09

  Well, you have to make it more attractive, I would say.

• 24:09Chuck Nice?

  Mm-hmm. Girls in science.

• 24:13Chuck Nice?

  Women are often judged by their looks, even though it has nothing to do with their ability. Mm-hmm. So let's turn that around. Name the sexiest male scientist.

• 24:24Chuck Nice?

  I'll give you a hint. His name starts with Neil.

• 24:27Speaker 09

  Uh, Neil deGrasse Tyson?

• 24:31Chuck Nice?

  Oh, did you say Neil deGrasse Tyson? Oh, Neil deGrasse Tyson, that's right, that's right. Yeah, he's pretty cool, yeah, yeah. Is he sexy?

• 24:37Speaker 09

  For sure.

• 24:38Chuck Nice?

  Oh, say hi, Neil.

• 24:40Speaker 09

  Hi, Neil.

• 24:41Chuck Nice?

  So we learned two things. One, everyone knows Madame Curie, and nothing else. Two, apparently Neil, you are very sexy.

• 24:53Speaker 01

  It was very, it was between you and Neil's bore. It was very close, very close.

• 24:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, um, we're featuring my interview with Mayim Bialik, and I, I asked her how much of her background as a scientist informed her portrayal of a scientist. That's a natural question to ask. If you're really, really great actor, maybe you don't even need to have that background. But she has that background. So let's see where that took her. Check it out.

• 25:20Mayim Bialik?

  I actually based my character on, I will not name her, a specific professor, um, in my life. So there, there actually is, um, a person with, with elements of Amy, but...

• 25:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wait, but does that person know that you were in The Capital?

• 25:34Mayim Bialik?

  No, I mean, she may watch it and say, "Oh, look, that's me." No, I don't think so. But because when I was asked to be on the show, or when I was asked to audition for the show, I was asked to, to do an impression of Jim Parsons. That's literally what they wanted. But there are aspects of, of, you know, my meticulousness, or, or, or female professors that I've had in particular. There's some male professor energy in her, too. You know, there are people, there are people that I've known in my life that, that do remind me of Amy, but all the other shows that I grew up with was about attractive people and who had sex with who on which week. I mean, that's just, that's literally, we, and I wa, I tuned in every week to see which attractive person's gonna couple with that attractive person. And our show's about the people who watch those shows, you know?

• 26:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, Big Bang Theory, in its, any premiere episode, garners 20 million views. Not views, viewers.

• 26:27Speaker 01

  Right.

• 26:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's not, it's not a, uh, it's not a YouTube clip. It's like, the show, when it premieres, was it Thursday night? 20 million viewers.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  It's huge, like, that's, those are, that, those audiences are not that big anymore. Like, used to be very common in television, it's not anymore, that's an insane number.

• 26:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So to even get that in modern times?

• 26:44Speaker 01

  To get that in, yeah, to get that today is crazy.

• 26:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so, would you say, that now more than ever, science is reaching the public, especially through comedic means? And you're, you're, you are a participant on that landscape?

• 26:56Speaker 01

  Yes, I would. Now more than ever, science is reaching people through comedic means, and I am a participant in that landscape.

• 27:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, thank you, you did say it. Let the record show, he's, he would say that and did say that.

• 27:05Speaker 01

  Objection. But the internet has really given people a community. Cause when you're growing up in your town, I grew up in the south, there were like, three other people in my school who were into the stuff that I was into. And that's what's so great about Comic Con, and, and having it be such a pervasive part of our culture, is that, these are, these giant safe zones have spilled out, and now, when I was growing up, it used to be an insult to tell someone they were a nerd, and now the big insult is, "You're a fake nerd." You're like, "No, I'm not, I'm totally a nerd." So...

• 27:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Here's my badge!

• 27:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, seriously, like, that, now that's the insult, it's calling someone a fake nerd.

• 27:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so we, settle this now. A geek or nerd? I, I tend to be more geek leaning.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  I always thought, you know, there's a lot of...

• 27:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You gotta say nerd, cause that's the name of your frickin' company.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  It is, it is.

• 27:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so, so, it's the bias that we're...

• 27:45Speaker 01

  I think ultimately, colloquially, we're saying the same thing. I think, you know, the word nerd, I think has, is, is Sussian in origin, and the word geek is a, is a German word, Gekk, which was like, a circus freak that would bite the heads off snakes and chickens. And so, some people say that geeks are more pop culture obsessed, and some people say that nerds are more actually like, engineer types. I think we're ultimately saying, we're all saying the same thing, we, I don't think what, I don't think what people like makes them a nerd, I think it's the way we process information. I think, a nerd will try to understand something more than any other living creature, and then try to use that information against them.

• 28:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And that's becoming entertainment for others who are not nerds.

• 28:23Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I would so much rather be punched by a jock than endure the psychological warfare of a nerd. Like jocks online just tell me I suck and that's fine, but when a nerd doesn't like something I do, I get like a nine-page dissertation with footnotes and an annotated bibliography of why I suck. And I gotta go, "Yeah, I do."

• 28:41Speaker 02

  Several automated Twitter.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  Several, yeah, absolutely, yeah. You don't want to piss off a nerd.

• 28:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's the lesson of this segment. So coming up, we're gonna have some fun with science memes. And we're gonna find out that success takes work.

• 29:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome back to StarTalk.

• 29:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Tonight, we're talking about the geekiness and the success of the Big Bang Theory TV sitcom. And it shows that being a nerd, being a geek, is cool. Or can be cool. And I think you feed right into it. You, your show on Comedy Central at midnight, this is, this is like geek central. You'll show some image from the internet and get comedians to give a caption for it. Or perhaps invent a new meme.

• 29:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 29:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So I've noticed that as my visibility grew, I got memed a few times.

• 29:41Speaker 01

  You're, you're, you're big, you're big in the memes, in the meme-verse.

• 29:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The meme-verse, and not on purpose. I'm just, I don't know that, I didn't have nothing to do with it. But why, what? So, yeah, so I'm flattered. What, what I like best about it is that those memes were not even about me. They were using me as an excuse to celebrate science. So we're getting back to my interview with Mayim Bialik from The Big Bang Theory. And I asked her about her path to becoming a scientist. Let's check it out.

• 30:12Mayim Bialik?

  The notion that if you're not good at something, you know, from the get-go, that it's not for you is actually not true. And when I was in school, and I was born in 1975, so from the time that I was, you know, from 1980 on, and for those, those 10 and 15 years of school, that was what was assumed. Like, oh, you're not naturally good at math? Better, better like English, you know? And I think now, we're seeing such a shift in understanding that everybody learns differently. And most people may learn one way, but there's a percentage of people in one, in a classroom... Who may be terrific mathematicians and scientists, but they need to be taught in a different way. And I'm grateful that I had a one-on-one experience with a female role model, you know, when I was 15, who helped me see that there is a way for me to understand things.

• 30:57Mayim Bialik?

  But when I got to college, I mean, I went to UCLA. It's a school of A students, you know, and they have to set a curve. And I was, I struggled a lot. I'd say a good 75 to 80% of people in my classes, this came very naturally to. And I worked my butt off. I did not have a social life. I got mononucleosis because I studied all the time. I rested very little and I was pulling a C+ in organic chemistry and crying every night that I couldn't go to med school.

• 31:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So Chris, you have many hats. Producer, actor, host, writer, all of this. And what are you best at that did not come natural to you?

• 31:43Speaker 01

  Um, I mean, for me, everything, like my language was comedy when I was growing up. So anything that was presented in a comedic way. And you know what really was portrayal in pop culture? When the movie Revenge of the Nerds came out, I wanted to be a trilam. There was a movie called Real Genius, and it was the first time Val Kilmer played a character who was like a super cool, super genius.

• 32:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, so he was a cool genius.

• 32:05Speaker 01

  Very cool genius. And so they, the whole movie was about basically using your mind in creative ways. And there's a big message in the movie about the sort of the nexus of science and philosophy. It's like, it can't be all science or all philosophy, but both. And those had really big impacts on me and what I was interested in.

• 32:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I didn't get the philosophy part of that, but you were majoring in philosophy.

• 32:24Speaker 01

  I majored in philosophy.

• 32:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Therefore, there's a philosophy component.

• 32:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, and Dungeons and Dragons was something that I played when I was growing up because it's basically, it's the perfect crossroads of fantasy and math, of statistics and probability.

• 32:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So Summer, you do a lot of different things. You freelance, right? You're a blogger. And did I understand this correctly? You're like the, you're, who show do you, you're like the astrophysicist?

• 32:45Speaker 02

  I'm the in-house astrophysicist for Rachel Maddow.

• 32:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  For Rachel Maddow.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  Oh, that sounds like it.

• 32:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's why she stopped calling me. I was on her show like a bunch of times.

• 32:52Speaker 01

  Not anymore.

• 32:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And then I said, wait.

• 32:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  She doesn't text, she doesn't write, and you've got the gig. Oh, my gosh. So, we all have succeeded in various ways, and not all of them come naturally out of what an educational system tries to do with you.

• 33:06Speaker 01

  Sure. And I did a lot of research when I was trying to, when I was in my early 30s. I, you know, I straightened out my life, I got sober, I quit drinking, I started focusing on, you know, constructive ways for uses of my time and my kind of obsessive brain. And I studied success, and I studied time management, and I studied self-improvement. And what I learned is that anyone that you see, that you think, well, they've got it covered, they must have had a natural ability, you're really robbing them of how much work they put into making something look easy. Someone said something to me once that has resonated with me forever, and it's a boxing metaphor of all things, but they said, "Line, speed, beauty." You have to learn the line behind something, you get that down, then you can master speed, and then you can make that beautiful.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  But you, but it takes so much work to get to that point. So, I always tell people, like, don't ever be discouraged if you don't get something right away. You will get it if you stick to it. There's no secret to that. It's just stick to it.

• 34:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Awesome.

• 34:02Speaker 01

  You know? Every day, incremental change, and over time, it becomes formidable.

• 34:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Summer.

• 34:08Speaker 02

  So, there's a thing that is being talked about more and more, and I think it started in academia, but I think any profession experiences it, called imposter syndrome, which is basically the idea that everybody else knows exactly what they're doing except for you.

• 34:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, you think you are an imposter?

• 34:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, you think any, any second now, they're all gonna find out that I have no idea what I'm doing, I don't belong here, they're gonna kick me out. And it happens to people, at least for scientists, it happens to people at all levels.

• 34:32Speaker 01

  Everyone.

• 34:33Speaker 02

  Chairs of departments.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  Can I tell you, we had Paul McCartney on our podcast, Paul McCartney on our podcast, and he said-

• 34:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What a deadbeat.

• 34:39Speaker 01

  Yes. And he said he only just recently got over imposter syndrome, and that's Paul McCartney.

• 34:46Speaker 02

  Right.

• 34:47Speaker 01

  So, no one-

• 34:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Therefore-

• 34:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. No one, no one really knows any more than you. Some people just focus a little more, and apply, and work, and, you know, but, but ultimately, you can achieve anything if you want to.

• 34:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, coming up on StarTalk, we'll answer your questions about scientists on TV when we return.

• 35:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome back to StarTalk. We're talking about science as portrayed on television, and now it's time for the Cosmic Queries segment. And this is where I'm asked questions that we've summoned from our fanbase on whatever topic is of the moment, and these are questions on the portrayal of science on television. So I'll try to answer them. If I can't, I got Summer's backup. You got my back here? I'm gonna try. You're gonna try. All right. And Chris, I've not seen these questions.

• 35:44Speaker 01

  You have not seen these questions? By the way, you are always the... I always enjoy going to your Twitter feed after a movie with some science comes out to be like, "All right, was this legit or not? Neil's gonna set the record straight."

• 35:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  Here we go. Query one from Brian Lefkowitz in Staten Island, New York.

• 35:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  A local guy.

• 36:00Speaker 01

  Local guy. "Do scientists ever hit as many buttons in real life as they do in a movie?"

• 36:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Ah, can I tell you? Every time I visit NASA Mission Control, I ask, "Where's the red button? I wanna push it." It's just an urge. I don't know. But yeah, there are a lot of buttons. I mean, if you go to a telescope and you're in the control room of the telescope, there are multiple monitors tracking every little aspect of what the telescope is doing, where it's pointing, what is the temperature of the doer that contain... That's the insulated container that contains the chip that's doing the detecting. So all of this, there are buttons, there are screens, and so, yeah, it's kinda... It feels good. Yes, you're pushing as many buttons, not as many of them are red.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  All right.

• 36:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  This is from Jessica McLeod in Houston, Texas. "Which actor would you want to portray you?"

• 36:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Ooh. It's gotta be Denzel.

• 36:53Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Yeah.

• 36:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, no. It depends on... Wait, wait, wait. It depends on if it's... Denzel, if it's like a drama, but if I get superhero powers, 'cause it's a highly fictionalized version, then it's gotta be Will Smith, of course.

• 37:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 37:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I met Will Smith for the first time.

• 37:14Speaker 01

  Oh, you did?

• 37:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, just at the US premiere of Batman vs Superman. He showed up on the red carpet.

• 37:21Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 37:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, yeah, it was fun. We embraced and it was cool.

• 37:23Speaker 01

  Was he a fan of... did he know who you were?

• 37:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I think he does, because he had filmed some... he'd done some films in New York. And his son, Jaden, who's not in school because he's an actor.

• 37:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 37:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He wanted to know if he'd come by and I'd teach him some physics.

• 37:35Speaker 01

  Some physics? Hey, just teach me a little physics.

• 37:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The scheduling didn't quite work out, but so we know each other.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  Excellent.

• 37:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, okay.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  From Akal Gandhi in Chandler, Arizona. Is there any studied correlation between the nerdiness of a scientist and level of social awkwardness, i.e. Sheldon Cooper?

• 37:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Ooh. Okay, if you go to any Comic-Con, everybody there is a nerd, and everybody knows how to socialize with one another. I think you have these problems come about when, if the nerd tries to socialize with the hip people, and then there's the rejection factor that's there, and they're not saying the right thing at the right time. But among nerds, there is no wrong thing at the wrong time. Everything is good. Everything is worth, because they know you're speaking your mind and your heart.

• 38:21Speaker 01

  That's... I also think that people who are attracted to what would be classically thought of as, you know, the nerdly arts and sciences, is, I think you live more of an internal life. Because when young kids are popular, like, right off the bat, because they're like, "I play sports and I'm attractive," or whatever, and all the kids just bring them, they don't develop that kind of internal...

• 38:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Introspection.

• 38:43Speaker 01

  Introspective monologue that I think that nerds... So I think it contributes to both. I think nerds are naturally introspective because of the things that are interested in them. They're creative internally. They create worlds internally. That kind of creates a boundary between what some of the other kids are into, and then those other kids kind of ostracize them.

• 39:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I got a better explanation. There are some professions that don't require you to be socialized at all, to be good at them. So, while it may also have socialized people, you can be successful even if you're not. Whereas there are other professions where you kind of have to be socialized at some fundamental level, otherwise you will never be received into their ranks.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so, it's not so much that it attracts under-socialized people, it's that it does not reject them.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  Right. And then I also think some people who lead very internal lives when they're young just don't... Spend the time practicing socialization in those ways.

• 39:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Summer, where would you, where are you on that?

• 39:39Speaker 02

  No, I was just gonna say that I think nerds can be hip.

• 39:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That was the Val Kilmer character in The Real Genius.

• 39:48Speaker 02

  No, but I mean, I think as a person can inhabit both qualities. And so also that I feel like I've heard of girls who are popular, but really like the math and science, but hide it. Because then they think that all their other popular friends are gonna group them.

• 40:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But Comic Con is all about not having to hide it.

• 40:09Speaker 02

  No, exactly. I think that's the thing.

• 40:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We are what we are.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  And that's where I feel like we need to put more role models out there that say to people like, "Yeah, you don't have to hide this stuff."

• 40:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 40:19Speaker 01

  This makes you, this makes you powerful. This is so empowering and it makes you so much more interesting.

• 40:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You can deprogram someone's computer if they...

• 40:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you can ruin their credit.

• 40:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Chris, you got a last question there for me?

• 40:32Speaker 01

  From Roberto Quiroga in Dallas, Texas. "Dr. Tyson, would you rather have a celestial object named after you or a star on the Walk of Fame?"

• 40:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Ooh. Well, there's the real stars that are in the universe. And then there's whatever we call one another if you become famous. But as an astrophysicist, I am partial to the celestial phenomenon and celestial objects. And in fact, I do have a celestial object named after me. It's an asteroid called 13123 Tyson.

• 41:03Speaker 01

  Oh, that's awesome. And...

• 41:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And by the way, when it was announced that I would, I'd get this honor, I was very honored, I'm deeply honored by it, I double-checked to make sure it wasn't headed towards Earth. You don't wanna be that asteroid, right?

• 41:17Speaker 01

  You don't wanna be destroyer of worlds? That'd be amazing. And you don't wanna be on the Walk of Fame either.

• 41:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, I walk that along...

• 41:25Speaker 01

  It's dirty. The Hollywood Boulevard's dirty. Like, no one's gonna pee on your asteroid.

• 41:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's true.

• 41:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So up next, my buddy Bill Nye the Science Guy is gonna explain how science and television can join forces to change the world. Next on StarTalk.

• 41:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome back to StarTalk from the Rose Center for Earth and Space. We're wrapping up my interview with Mayim Bialik, real-life actress and real-life neuroscientist on The Big Bang Theory. Check it out.

• 42:06Mayim Bialik?

  My fanbase is very unusual in that I have Big Bang Theory fans, but I also have people who are science people and people who are religious people or people who are interested in current events the way someone in the public eye would perceive them. Women's issues, things like that. So it's kind of like, we're sort of exploring, what is this fanbase? People who are followers of The Big Bang Theory aren't necessarily interested in hearing my perspective on women's issues, but some of them may be. And this is sort of where we're trying to help this grow.

• 42:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And if I can encourage something that you've already done a bit of, is bring your scientifically literate perspective to social issues that people think can only be solved in the absence of science, when often, science informs the conversation.

• 42:49Mayim Bialik?

  Well, and I think it's important to point out also, no matter what you do with your life, the training you get as a scientist, the way you see the world as a scientist, it literally is the prism with which you experience the rest of your life, no matter what you do. And you don't have to be trained as a scientist in order to love science, but that kind of training and appreciation never leaves you.

• 43:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Summer, you must agree with that, for sure.

• 43:12Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 43:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, it's a lens. It's a lens of nature. Where you understand how things work.

• 43:18Speaker 02

  And what it does for me is that every time I encounter something new, I have all these questions. And I want to know more things about it.

• 43:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's because you're still a kid, because scientists are just grown-up kids.

• 43:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So Chris, you were a nerd your whole life. So that surely shapes your worldview and your lenses, right? I mean, you agree?

• 43:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do. I just think it's always important to keep asking questions, but it's important to learn how to ask good questions.

• 43:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, nice.

• 43:44Speaker 01

  So I think a lot of people...

• 43:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And not all questions are equal, in spite of what some people want to believe.

• 43:49Speaker 01

  Well, I think especially with self-talk, like with self-dialogue.

• 43:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's a thing. What does that mean?

• 43:54Speaker 01

  It is a thing. Well, I think it's, you know, when people who are having a difficult time go, "Why do I always fail at everything?", then your brain will give you an answer or go, "Well, because you're dumb."

• 44:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, okay.

• 44:04Speaker 01

  But if you say like, "How can I learn from this experience? What can I do better? Who could I ask?", if you're not afraid to ask good questions, your brain will give you those answers as well.

• 44:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I just remember being in schools, particularly high school, and every next subject that I took... Which was, would have been new to me the first time I took biology, first time I took chemistry. It was like, "Hey, is that how that works? Is that what I saw? Is that..." And so, it was, it was so enlightening. It was as though there was a fog that was sitting in front of me, and with every new thing I learned, the fog would get thinner and thinner, and ultimately would dissipate entirely, laying bare the operations of nature. Absolutely. So... Ooh, what, did I just say, ooh? That was really, that's a new meme. Let's hear what Bill Nye the Science Guy, my buddy, in this latest installment of Nye Times in the City, what he has to say about inspiring future scientists through television. Check it out.

• 44:59Bill Nye?

  Wow, it looks so real. Oh wait, it is real. For a second, I thought I was a scientist watching TV. But actually, I'm a science educator on TV. I love science on TV. I grew up with "Watch Mr. Wizard." Kids today have Bill Nye the Science Guy. It's, it's the best. Seriously, what I love about science on television is we can take you places you wouldn't ordinarily go. Unless you have flame retardant coveralls, or deep sea dive gear, or a spacesuit. We can take you to a volcano, or the bottom of the ocean, or outer space, just like that. We can even take you to a park in New York City, built on a railroad from the 1930s, elevated over city streets.

• 45:44Bill Nye?

  This is High Line Park. See, television is inclusive. Anybody can watch it and explore the world and the cosmos. And as I often say, half of the humans are girls and women. So half of the scientists and engineers can be women. And then we'd have twice as many brains to solve problems, make discoveries, and build things. We could change the world. Science on television is more popular than ever. We have the Big Bang Theory and Star Talk. Come on, people, turn it up loud!

• 46:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Bill Nye!

• 46:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, let's try to land this plane. Chris, do you have any sort of parting reflections on just the role of getting people interested in the sciences?

• 46:32Speaker 01

  I think watching people be excited and interested in things is contagious. Make it empowering. Make people understand that you will make the shiny things, you know, for our culture. I don't know, what do you think?

• 46:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, Summer?

• 46:46Speaker 02

  I think my parting thoughts are that anyone can be a scientist and that if you know anybody, especially young women and young people of color who want to be a scientist, ask them how you can help and support them in their endeavors and tell them that they can do anything they want.

• 46:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm feeling it. And you know what else I feel? The fact that as children, we all remember being curious about everything around us. Turning over the rock, climbing a hill, digging through the soils, and really that is all a scientist does as an adult. And somehow, sometime between that time of our childhood and adulthood, that gets beaten out of us. Is it the educational system where they prioritize pouring information into your head rather than stimulating curiosity? I think it must be that. You know why? Because how many schools have you seen, been to, schoolyards, even your own schools that you attended, where at the end of the day, "School's out!"

• 47:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  At the end of the spring semester, "School's out!" And everyone runs away from school, as though it's something to escape, as though you were suffering under the burden of having to learn. And I think about this and I say, maybe schools shouldn't be cramming information in your head, maybe schools should be stimulating a curiosity for why you'd want to learn in the first place. And when that happens, no one will want to leave school. No one will want to go on summer vacation because school is where it's happening, school is where the action is. And I think that will affect everyone, and especially those who previously have been disenfranchised, thinking that academics and learning was something only for smart

• 48:25Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  people, when in fact academics and learning is something for anybody who is curious. You've been watching StarTalk.

• 48:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  On the National Geographic Network, I've been your host Neil deGrasse Tyson. As always, I bid you to keep looking up.