Pod Insights The Dr. John Delony Show My Husband Backed Out of Our Threesome About this episode 📱Early access: Watch episodes of The Dr. John Delony Show one week early—download the free Ramsey Network app today!
On today’s episode, we hear about:
· A wife who left her husband out of their planned threesome
· A woman unsure how to support her husband’s personal growth
· A man struggling to overcome his fear of having kids with his future wife
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Transcript 11,695 words · 4 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:05 Speaker 00 Me and my husband explored the idea of having a threesome with another man. Then he found out about me sleeping with the guy first. And I was wondering how to help him through his emotions without running us both insane.
0:20 Dr. John Delony? Oh, that ship sailed, sister.
0:28 Dr. John Delony? What up? What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm so grateful that you are with us, talking about your relationships, your marriages, who you're dating, your kids, your mental health, your emotional health. For 20-plus years, I've been sitting with hurting people. I've got a PhD in education. I got a PhD in counseling. I've been sitting with hurting people, trying to help walk alongside people in messes. They've created messes that have been thrown at them, messes they've been dropped into, and help people figure out what's the next right move. I'd love to have you on this show. If you want to be with us, it's real people going through real tough times.
1:06 Dr. John Delony? Give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291, or go to johndeloney.com/ask, A-S-K. Let's go out to Athens, Georgia, and talk to the great and powerful Kate. Hey, Kate, what's up?
1:22 Speaker 00 Hi, Dr. John.
1:23 Dr. John Delony? What's up?
1:24 Speaker 00 I have a question for you.
1:26 Dr. John Delony? Hold on, you're already exasperated. What happened?
1:28 Speaker 00 Yeah, it's different, um, different calling than listening.
1:34 Dr. John Delony? I can't wait. What happened? I can literally hear it on you.
1:39 Speaker 00 It's heavy.
1:41 Dr. John Delony? Okay, all right. Just want to dive in. Let's do it.
1:44 Speaker 00 Um, me and my husband explored the idea of having a threesome with another man.
1:49 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
1:49 Speaker 00 And it turned into an affair on my part.
1:52 Dr. John Delony? Oh, you went through with it?
1:55 Speaker 00 Well, we tried to, and I had not told him that I had been with a guy first. And we tried to go through with it, and he absolutely hated it, and I hated it, and it was awful. And then, um, then he found out about me sleeping with the guy first. And I was wondering how to help him through his emotions without running us both insane.
2:21 Dr. John Delony? Oh, that ship sailed, sister. The insane ship is out of the harbor.
2:30 Speaker 00 Yeah, it it's definitely different. Um, we I've never ever thought I would do something like that in my entire life. Like,
2:37 Dr. John Delony? Yeah.
2:38 Speaker 00 It was out of character for me completely. Um,
2:41 Dr. John Delony? So walk, walk, walk me back to the beginning. How, how did this thing get initiated?
2:46 Speaker 00 So, um, we've been kind of like just messing around in the bedroom with it for like four years. Nothing we ever thought would actually come to like be a real thing. Just something we fantasized about together.
2:59 Dr. John Delony? Mm hmm.
2:59 Speaker 00 And then, um, he, he kept, he, I ended up seeing in June that he had posted some pictures of me on a website that I was not aware of.
3:10 Dr. John Delony? Whoa. Okay, that feels like a violation there. So, so one, like y'all are having like some fun flirty in the bedroom. Like, okay, what would happen? And what would he want to look like? And would you want to be another woman? Or would you want to be the man? Like, so y'all are having this flirty, kind of fantasy roleplay-y.
3:30 Speaker 00 Yeah, it was, it was definitely like just something we, neither one of us, I guess, never thought would come into a real thing.
3:37 Dr. John Delony? Okay, so then he took the first step by posting you on a website? Or did y'all both agree like, hey, let's just go fishing a little bit and see what, like if we made, if we made a fake account, I wonder if we, who would actually want to be interested in us?
3:48 Speaker 00 Well, we had talked about it, but we, I didn't know he had done it.
3:53 Dr. John Delony? Okay, so he went ahead, put pictures of you up?
3:56 Speaker 00 Yes.
3:59 Dr. John Delony? And then continued?
3:59 Speaker 00 I found it in June.
4:00 Dr. John Delony? How'd you find out?
4:02 Speaker 00 I got his phone. We, we were, we were at the pool with some friends and I went, me and my friend went to the store and he left it in the car and I saw it whenever we drove to the store.
4:14 Dr. John Delony? So you're just going through a phone and you find out there's an app on it and you're on some threesome website?
4:19 Speaker 00 Yeah.
4:21 Speaker 00 And that was kinda, I was mad about it, but I knew we had talked about it. So I wasn't like as angry about it, I guess, because we had discussed it before.
4:30 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
4:31 Speaker 00 Um.
4:31 Dr. John Delony? So did you scream and yell and demand he take it down, or you were like, alright, well, let's see how it goes?
4:36 Speaker 00 Well, we kinda just like, we talked about it and we kinda decided to delete the whole thing. It wasn't like a argument. It was just like a conversation.
4:44 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
4:45 Speaker 00 So then, um, but at that point, I thought he was serious. Because it, it turned into more of a real life situation. So then I thought, well, maybe he really wants to do that. And may, and maybe I'm wrong. I don't, I don't know. So I kind of pushed it more to see if that's something he would wanna do. And then he was kinda pushing it with me and we kinda both thought each other was ready to do something like that.
5:12 Dr. John Delony? Was it a game of chicken that kinda got out, like?
5:16 Speaker 00 I think so.
5:17 Dr. John Delony? Oh, this, this is happening? Oh, this is really happening? Oh, you weren't, like, and then nobody stopped anybody and all of a sudden y'all are heading off a cliff? Or?
5:23 Speaker 00 Right. I think that's exactly what happened.
5:26 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
5:27 Speaker 00 Because we tried one time to go through with it in person before this incident happened.
5:32 Dr. John Delony? Mm-hmm.
5:33 Speaker 00 And neither one of us could go through with it.
5:35 Dr. John Delony? So y'all met with a third party and you're like, hey, we're kinda into this?
5:38 Speaker 00 Well, we didn't even meet him. Like, it came to the point where he was about to be on the way to the house.
5:42 Dr. John Delony? Uh-huh.
5:43 Speaker 00 And we both were like, we can't do this.
5:45 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
5:46 Speaker 00 So then we, and we talked about it and I, and I told him that I felt kind of angry that he even wanted to do it.
5:54 Dr. John Delony? Mm-hmm.
5:55 Speaker 00 It was almost like, I, and it was so weird to me because I did enjoy it in a way when we were talking about it. But then the fact that he actually wanted to go through with it made me feel like he wasn't protecting me.
6:08 Dr. John Delony? From you being with another man?
6:10 Speaker 00 Right. Like, it felt like he wasn't protecting my heart in any kind of way.
6:13 Dr. John Delony? Okay. And so you showed him by going to find another guy and you slept with him?
6:18 Speaker 00 I don't know. That's how, I don't even, I don't even know how that even happened. Like, we.
6:22 Dr. John Delony? So then a guy's coming to your house and y'all both are like, no, no, what are we doing? This is crazy. This is like a fantasy out of control. Like, stop.
6:28 Speaker 00 Right.
6:29 Dr. John Delony? And then you reached out and.
6:32 Speaker 00 This is the same guy that was gonna come that night.
6:35 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
6:36 Speaker 00 And he, he, I told him, you know.
6:39 Dr. John Delony? Total stranger or did you know him?
6:41 Speaker 00 No, I had no idea who he was. He was a total stranger.
6:43 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
6:44 Speaker 00 And I had, I texted him and my, my husband texted him. We both told him like, we're not doing it. Sorry for, you know, getting you started, but then like a few, four days later or so, he texted me. And was like, how are you doing? And then he kind of played on it like, well, this is what your husband's been posting behind your back. And like, this is what he's doing and he's probably seeing somebody else because he's posting these things and doing this behind your back. So he's probably doing other things behind your back too.
7:15 Speaker 00 And it kind of just got in my head. And then I kind of talked my husband back into going through with the situation. And then it ended up, the guy was like, well, if you just come meet me, you feel more comfortable with the situation. And I was like, yeah, and I went.
7:34 Speaker 00 He was like, if you meet me first, then you'll feel more comfortable when it does happen. You're gonna do it anyway, so it's not wrong. It's kind of how he put it.
7:44 Dr. John Delony? Oh, y'all are gonna end up having sex together anyway, so you might as well, y'all two do it first and then it'll be okay for the threesome.
7:50 Speaker 00 Exactly.
7:52 Speaker 00 And, and now I look back at it, it was like a clear head. And I'm like, that was so stupid. And we both have looked back at it as such a terrible like thing we even let into the bedroom. Just because it was so, it's like it was all consuming for a few weeks.
8:08 Dr. John Delony? Yeah.
8:10 Speaker 00 And now it came out and he, I almost didn't even want to tell him and I almost felt like if we went through with it, then it would make it okay. Like if we went through with it together, then I would feel justified with it almost.
8:23 Dr. John Delony? Did y'all go through with it in the evening or did you call it off in the middle?
8:26 Speaker 00 In the middle.
8:27 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
8:27 Speaker 00 Yeah, the guy was at our house and it kind of got started and then he, my husband freaked out.
8:34 Dr. John Delony? Sure.
8:36 Speaker 00 So then we both were like, it was, it was terrible. And it was only two weeks ago when this happened, so it's very fresh.
8:45 Dr. John Delony? And so then when your husband freaked out, the guy left and he's like, what was happening? Can't believe this. How long until you said, well, I've already met with this guy? I've already slept with him.
8:54 Speaker 00 The next day.
8:55 Dr. John Delony? Okay. How did that go?
8:56 Speaker 00 The next day. Um, he just kept asking questions like, I feel like you've seen him before. I feel like you know him. And I was like, I don't, I don't know what you're talking about because I didn't, I didn't. He was already so upset and I didn't want to make it worse. Um, and I was like, I don't, I don't know what you're talking about. And then he was like, I'm just going to text him and ask him. And I said, okay, fine. So then I just told him.
9:20 Speaker 00 And now it's, he's very like, he, he says he wants to fix things, but he's,
9:29 Speaker 00 it's, he's waking me up in the middle of the night, almost every night with different questions and different things. And, um, one minute he'll be fine and the next minute he'll be really upset. And I don't really know how to
9:46 Speaker 00 help him process it. I also am trying to process it because I've never been that kind of person.
9:51 Dr. John Delony? Yeah. You, you became somebody that you don't even recognize.
9:55 Speaker 00 Right. And that's what scared me the most.
9:58 Dr. John Delony? Yeah.
9:59 Speaker 00 Was that I looked and I never thought I was even capable of that. Like the way that I feel about my husband has always been insane. Like, I guess that's not a great word, but like I've always been super in love with my husband since I met him. So the fact that I would even entertain, but we were having issues before it happened and I've, but I don't want to justify it by saying that.
10:22 Speaker 00 But there were things going on, like with communication and lack of communication. Um, I, we moved a year ago away from our family and my mental health has not been great. Like I've been, I started having panic attacks again, um, for the first time in years. And I was looking back on our conversations and reading where I was like basically begging him to help me or to, to like, to support me in any kind of way because he works night shifts. So I'm always by myself.
10:55 Speaker 00 So I was like texting him and I was like, will you please just like, help me with this part? Cause I can't do this and I'm, I'm having a really hard time. And he would just be like, well, I can't fix you. And I was like, I know that, but like, I need some help and you're the only person I have.
11:12 Dr. John Delony? So, there's multiple issues here, okay?
11:16 Speaker 00 Okay.
11:17 Dr. John Delony? Issue number one is,
11:21 Dr. John Delony? you have a marriage that was already a mess.
11:27 Dr. John Delony? If your body is screaming at you, trying to get your attention, to the point that it spins you out and convinces you you're dying via panic attack.
11:37 Dr. John Delony? And your husband says, "I can't fix that."
11:41 Dr. John Delony? He doesn't stop what he's doing and come running. Y'all have cracks in your relationship that are pretty significant.
11:48 Speaker 00 Yeah.
11:48 Dr. John Delony? That's number one. Number two, you lost trust in you.
11:57 Speaker 00 Yeah.
11:59 Dr. John Delony? And that's a scary place to be when we lose trust in ourselves.
12:05 Dr. John Delony? Because it's hard to take a next step. When we find out we're capable of things that we've judged other people on before, and we find ourselves capable of hurting other people, or justifying weird things, or falling prey to, or using really thin arguments to go do a thing just to see what happened, like, phew, you know what I mean?
12:26 Speaker 00 Yeah.
12:27 Dr. John Delony? And the third thing is, like, you blew up your husband's trust. This is gonna sound crazy,
12:37 Dr. John Delony? but,
12:43 Dr. John Delony? y'all planned to do a thi- y'all planned to do infidelity together.
12:48 Speaker 00 Yeah.
12:49 Dr. John Delony? Which became a y'all versus the world kind of thing.
12:53 Dr. John Delony? And I know, like, that in and of itself is a whole different conversation. But you violated that trust, right?
13:01 Speaker 00 Yeah.
13:04 Dr. John Delony? And so...
13:07 Dr. John Delony? If he was calling me,
13:11 Dr. John Delony? we would have, be having a different conversation, but ultimately, the marriage you had is over. Doesn't exist anymore. It's dust. Just smoke.
13:22 Speaker 00 Which I feel like is a good thing. Like, in a way, we've-
13:24 Dr. John Delony? Could be. Could be.
13:26 Speaker 00 It sucks because we've talked more in the past two weeks than we have for the past two years.
13:30 Dr. John Delony? That's right. It's why a lot of people say that an affair saved their marriage.
13:36 Dr. John Delony? Because it just blew the house down. That was a house of cards, anyway. That no one would just say out loud, "This is what this actually is."
13:44 Dr. John Delony? It's not a reason to go have an affair, God help us, but like, there's people, like, it's like, it brings to light what everything, like, truth, real fast, right?
13:53 Speaker 00 Yeah, it does.
13:55 Dr. John Delony? So, the next steps have to be, if y'all decide not to save your marriage, that one's over. To rebuild a new one, y'all can do that.
14:07 Speaker 00 Well, we've seen a counselor, virtually. But his advice was basically, "Just don't talk about it, because it's opening the wound."
14:16 Dr. John Delony? Well, that's stupid. Don't ever talk to that guy again.
14:19 Speaker 00 Yeah, okay.
14:21 Dr. John Delony? Um, it's less about "Don't talk about it." It's, and you gotta understand, your husband, that same person that you're saying, like, "I can't believe I did this", he knew you that way, too.
14:34 Speaker 00 Yeah.
14:35 Dr. John Delony? Right?
14:38 Dr. John Delony? And only y'all three know how this engagement started, when this third party walked into your house, and what images are in your husband's head.
14:51 Speaker 00 Yeah.
14:52 Dr. John Delony? And when he's been asking you very specific questions, which is really common after an affair, like, "I wanna know exactly what happened." Exactly. Now he's looping on that. The images in his head, all the time, of you with this guy, you with this guy. And he kinda's got a glimpse of you with this guy in real life, right? So, it's all there.
15:14 Dr. John Delony? The next steps are very specific. Here is an open book, the table is clear. What must be true for me to rebuild trust in this house?
15:25 Speaker 00 Okay.
15:26 Dr. John Delony? And by the way, he also texted the guy and said, "Come over, here's my address." So he's culpable too.
15:35 Speaker 00 Yeah.
15:36 Dr. John Delony? But y'all both have to lay out on the table, here's what re-establishing trust looks like.
15:44 Speaker 00 Okay. I think that's where we're stuck. Is like, we, we don't know where to start.
15:49 Dr. John Delony? Okay, so you tell me, and he gets to tell you. Y'all tell each other, let me say it that way.
15:55 Speaker 00 Well, he tells me, "I don't know."
15:58 Dr. John Delony? Okay, well, then say, "I'm gonna go first. I'm deleting all apps.
16:05 Dr. John Delony? I'm cutting the internet off the house for 30 days."
16:11 Dr. John Delony? At 8 o'clock at night, all the phones get shut completely off in this house, and we have to stare at each other.
16:18 Speaker 00 Okay.
16:19 Dr. John Delony? And that means we have to play Twister together. Or I'll send you some questions for human sex, we gotta get to know each other again.
16:26 Speaker 00 Okay.
16:27 Dr. John Delony? We gotta go on walks, we're gonna read books together. We're gonna, like, we're gonna have to do these things together and recreate a new, a new, like, you gotta go first. If he's like, "I don't even know where to start."
16:40 Speaker 00 Yeah.
16:43 Dr. John Delony? And then you get to say, "And by the way, you opened the door for this man to walk in the house and have sex with me right in front of you.
16:53 Dr. John Delony? I lost trust in you too.
16:56 Speaker 00 Yeah.
16:56 Dr. John Delony? Here's what must be true for me.
17:01 Dr. John Delony? I want to know that you'll fight for my heart again."
17:05 Dr. John Delony? And y'all have to also draw some boundaries. All right, flirty conversations, what-if conversations, fantasy conversations, those can be so fun and playful and exciting and erotic. All, I'm all about it. Have, have all the fun you want, have all the conversations you wanna have.
17:21 Dr. John Delony? But in the future, here's the breaks. Right? Y'all gotta build those boundaries in, so here's what this is gonna look like.
17:31 Dr. John Delony? I don't ever want to have another conversation about you with another person, another man, another woman, ever again.
17:36 Speaker 00 Okay.
17:38 Dr. John Delony? I don't want to have that conversation. And you can say, you get three questions or five questions a day.
17:47 Dr. John Delony? And once you reach that limit, then we're gonna go to the next day. Because just sitting here having like forty questions every single day, every single day, i- isn't helpful.
17:54 Speaker 00 I think what he can't move past is like, he doesn't believe what I'm telling him about what happened.
18:03 Dr. John Delony? And that's, that's, that's the damning thing about sneaking off and sleeping with somebody else.
18:07 Speaker 00 Right.
18:08 Dr. John Delony? This, he, you're not who he thought he, you were, right?
18:13 Speaker 00 Right.
18:14 Dr. John Delony? So, he's trying to imagine who you might be. And I promise, what he's envisioning is worse than reality.
18:21 Speaker 00 Yeah.
18:23 Dr. John Delony? But you can't, that's the part you can't fix. What you can do is, is do the next right thing every minute, every hour, every day.
18:31 Speaker 00 Right.
18:32 Dr. John Delony? And y'all can both say, hey, what does it look like when it comes to chores? What does it look like every day before we go to work, how can I love you today?
18:42 Dr. John Delony? What does it look like every evening with, on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, all plan the activities that we're gonna do after eight o'clock? And Tuesdays and Thursdays and Saturdays, you plan the activities we're gonna do after eight o'clock or seven o'clock, because our phones are off.
18:58 Speaker 00 Okay.
19:00 Dr. John Delony? And we've gotta come up, we gotta reimagine our lives together.
19:06 Dr. John Delony? Or twice a week, we're gonna have another couple over just for dinner.
19:12 Dr. John Delony? We're gonna go to a comedy show, we're gonna watch a movie, we're gonna begin to do things so we can reestablish liking, reestablish safety, reestablish trust in this relationship, because we blew it up.
19:24 Speaker 00 Yeah.
19:27 Dr. John Delony? And you could tell them.
19:33 Dr. John Delony? I totally understand your lack of trust.
19:37 Dr. John Delony? And but you just pretend to tell them you're crazy for thinking this isn't helpful. So I will answer, I'll answer your questions. I'll answer five a day. That's kind of my capacity or seven a day or 10. You get to decide two a day. I don't, I don't care what it is.
19:52 Dr. John Delony? But when each of you establishes, here's what it's going to take to reestablish trust and rebuild something amazing. The other person can say, that's not enough for me. I'm out.
20:03 Speaker 00 Okay.
20:04 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
20:07 Dr. John Delony? Here's the question I want you to answer. I want you all to, to put at the, at the top of your paper.
20:13 Dr. John Delony? What do we want this house to feel like in one year when we both walk in?
20:19 Dr. John Delony? I want it to feel full of laughter, warmth, sexiness, silliness, dancing.
20:26 Dr. John Delony? And then let's reverse engineer what must be true, starting today. I take dance classes. Cool. Both got to go to the gym. Cool. Both gonna start reading the same, like do a book study together. Cool.
20:38 Speaker 00 Okay.
20:40 Dr. John Delony? That makes, does that make sense?
20:42 Speaker 00 Yeah, that does make sense. That, like you said, it's clearly just, everything just, it's totally different. Everything changed.
20:50 Dr. John Delony? Yes. So you're dating again. Hi, my name is Kate. I think you're kind of cute. Can I get your number?
20:58 Dr. John Delony? And you both know the capacity you have to hurt each other.
21:02 Speaker 00 Yeah.
21:05 Dr. John Delony? I'm going to tell you something crazy. I don't think your marriage is over if you don't want it to be. And he doesn't want it to be.
21:12 Dr. John Delony? I think there's going to be some fumbling and stumbling around in the dark as y'all rediscover who you are, what y'all are capable of, how to forgive and how to say you're sorry. And then the most important thing is how to act anew. How to begin doing different things.
21:33 Dr. John Delony? Is that fair?
21:34 Speaker 00 Yeah, that's fair.
21:38 Dr. John Delony? As a cautionary, um, oracle,
21:44 Dr. John Delony? I, I read a study, gosh, man, it's been a minute since I read it, maybe a few years ago.
21:52 Dr. John Delony? But it's something like ninety something percent of, it was, it was a number that was so astronomical, I couldn't believe it. Have thought about a threesome or fantasized about a threesome. And more and more couples are like, yeah, let's give it a shot.
22:11 Dr. John Delony? What would you say to that couple who thinks they're pretty tired, they've been married for eight years, ten years, fifteen years, whatever? That's like, yeah, we can do it, we can handle it. What would you tell that couple?
22:21 Speaker 00 No.
22:24 Speaker 00 But that, that was our part, we were reading all like the Reddit threads and all the forums and people were saying, oh, it's great and and it'll, it'll make your marriage better. And we kinda got to the point where that was like the only thing we were good at was having sex.
22:39 Speaker 00 So we were kinda like, well, if it's gonna make that better, then it has to make everything else better too.
22:45 Speaker 00 But I would definitely, if anybody asked me, I mean, it's, it's just like a poison that gets in and it just spreads.
22:55 Dr. John Delony? All right, here's the deal. You call him anytime, okay?
22:59 Speaker 00 Okay.
23:01 Dr. John Delony? And if you and your husband wanna be my guest at the Money in Marriage in February here in Nashville, Tennessee, y'all two can be my guest. You'll have to get your airfare here and your hotel here, but I'll, I'll cover your tickets.
23:15 Speaker 00 Okay, we could do that.
23:17 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
23:18 Speaker 00 Okay.
23:19 Dr. John Delony? But there's a lot of work between now and February, now and Valentine's Day.
23:25 Dr. John Delony? Asking yourself this question, how do you want this house to feel like when we walk home? Because here's the beautiful thing, y'all made some decisions to blow the thing up. Y'all can make that same, those same decisions to recreate something freaking amazing.
23:41 Speaker 00 Yeah.
23:44 Dr. John Delony? And I love what you just said, it's really important. The only thing we got good at was having sex. Cool. It's not a bad place to start. It's a pretty awesome place to start.
23:55 Dr. John Delony? But let that be an anchor point and begin to have honest conversations about, we don't like each other. How do we, let's reimagine liking each other.
24:04 Speaker 00 Yeah.
24:05 Dr. John Delony? You complain a lot. All you talk about is conspiracy theories. You actually think people landed on the moon. I'm vegetarian and all you want to do is eat steak. Like, I don't like being around your mother. Let's have these things, because they're happening in our marriage, whether we want to talk about them or not.
24:21 Speaker 00 Yeah.
24:22 Dr. John Delony? And then, most importantly, let's begin to act different. Is that cool?
24:28 Speaker 00 That's great.
24:29 Dr. John Delony? Thanks for the call, my sister. I can't wait to see the kind of work y'all do.
24:36 Dr. John Delony? I mean, I'm strangely optimistic, and I don't know why, it's just a sense.
24:44 Dr. John Delony? And if your husband ever wants to call, tell him to give me a shout. I'm sure people listening will want to know the other side of the story, too. I'd love to talk to him as well. And if y'all both want to call in, I'd love to have you both on.
24:56 Dr. John Delony? Your marriage, as you knew it, is over. Here's the question.
25:01 Dr. John Delony? Do we want to build? And if we do, what are we gonna build next? We'll be right back.
25:09 Dr. John Delony? This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, folks, we all have stories. We have the family and cultural stories we were born into. We have the stories about the good and the challenging things that have happened to us, and we have the stories that we are constantly telling ourselves. The stories of our past and the stories we have yet to write about futures that are powerful. And while you can't go back and change any of your old stories, the world is waiting to- See what story you're going to write next. As we enter into 2025, I want to encourage you to examine and even heal your old stories and be intentional about the new ones that you're writing. And I'm not talking about goals that will be long gone by February. I'm talking about writing new stories that will change your life forever for the better.
25:54 Dr. John Delony? If you're like me, therapy can be a great place to explore the old stories and begin to write new ones. Maybe think of your therapist as your editorial partner, helping you write new, better stories. And if you're considering therapy, I want you to consider BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy, and you can talk with your therapist when it works for your schedule. Get online and fill out a short survey, and you'll get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Start writing a new story this month with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/daloni to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, dot com slash daloni. All right, gang, listen, I've been looking for someone I could team up with to offer
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27:23 Dr. John Delony? recovery from aches and pains, better skin and skin health, cellulite, stretch marks, and more. I use my red light therapy panels and masks, both in near infrared light and red light, 10 to 20 minutes each day, and sometimes more when I'm in pain, and often during my prayer and meditation time, or when I'm having trouble sleeping. Red light therapy has become a cornerstone of my Health and Wellness Practice. I've also ordered their infrared sauna blanket, their special light bulbs and lamps for my home and more. Bon Charge ships worldwide in rapid time and their products, including red light therapy, are HSA and FSA eligible. Bon Charge offers easy returns and exchanges and a 12-month warranty on all red light therapy devices.
28:05 Dr. John Delony? Go to boncharge.com/deloney and use coupon code DELONY to save 15%. That's B-O-N-C-H-A-R-G-E. Boncharge.com/deloney and use coupon code DELONY to save 15%. Let's roll out to Omaha and talk to Sarah. Omaha, I love counting crows. What's up, Sarah?
28:32 Speaker 00 What's up? It's good to talk to you.
28:35 Dr. John Delony? It's good to talk to you. I'm honored to talk to you. I promise I'm more honored. What's up?
28:39 Speaker 00 Well, I'll just start with my question and we can go from there. My question initially is how can I support my husband's growth while I do my own healing and setting realistic expectations for rebuilding our marriage?
28:53 Dr. John Delony? What are you, what are you, what are you healing from?
28:57 Speaker 00 Um, we've been married for 15 years and he, it's basically been neglect and some emotional and occasional verbal abuse and trying to just figure out how to move forward from there. So I started listening to your show just over a year ago and in September I turned the music off and I turned the lights on and said, this is actually what's happening in our marriage and I'm not okay with it. And uh,
29:30 Dr. John Delony? Hey, I'm proud of you.
29:34 Speaker 00 Thank you.
29:35 Dr. John Delony? You have little ones?
29:37 Speaker 00 I do. I have a thirteen year old, a ten year old, and a seven year old.
29:42 Dr. John Delony? That made that conversation extra scary, didn't it?
29:45 Speaker 00 Yeah.
29:46 Dr. John Delony? Okay, so you, you, you cut off the music, you turn on the lights, you sat down and said, "Th- this part of our life is over." Ho- how did he react?
29:56 Speaker 00 Uh, he didn't. Um, yeah, I, I didn't probably do it in the very best way, but I, I told him I was really wanting separation, and I wrote him a long letter, and we tried to talk about it, but he kinda just ignored the whole thing, and, um, tried to just do some things better around the house and whatever, and we tried to bring in some other people to help, and didn't really get a lot of help, and just kinda stayed in our cycle for the last year, and, um, I, I know he's making some efforts toward change, but I'm having a really hard time responding positively, because I know what the cycle looks like when I respond positively to what changes he makes.
30:39 Dr. John Delony? Okay. So, A, I want to applaud your bravery. Good on you, okay?
30:45 Dr. John Delony? So-
30:45 Speaker 00 Thanks.
30:46 Dr. John Delony? Often, th- this moment, what you did is still kinda scary, right?
30:51 Speaker 00 Mm, yeah.
30:52 Dr. John Delony? And it can feel like a nerve, like a, like a raw nerve ending.
30:57 Speaker 00 Yeah.
30:58 Dr. John Delony? But that also means if I try to give you some coaching tips and some ideas on how to move forward, it can hurt, right? So, if I, if I walk through this with you, th- the best you can, like, you, your feelings are gonna be what your feelings are, right? Um, if we could all control our feelings, how rad would that be? But we can. They just, there, there are, our bodies do what our bodies do. But will you at least intellectually hold space for, "I think what you did was very brave, and pretty amazing, and here's some next steps." Is that cool?
31:29 Speaker 00 Yeah.
31:29 Dr. John Delony? Like, me, me with you, not at you, okay?
31:32 Speaker 00 Yeah.
31:33 Dr. John Delony? Um, most of the time, it takes so much, like, these conversations build up for so long, that they either come out, like, like you mentioned, kinda caustic, "This is the end, I'm, I want a separation, I want this, I want this," that the other person knows you don't really mean, and they know, "I'm just gonna weather the storm, and then things will kinda get back to the way they were."
31:59 Dr. John Delony? Or people explode. They do something that they can't take back. They cheat. They cheat, or they go buy a bunch of stupid stuff on borrowed money, or they go like, right? They do something they can't take back.
32:13 Speaker 00 Uh huh.
32:13 Dr. John Delony? So here's the next move. Most of the time, people are not very specific about what I need to see happen in this house. It's usually about, here's how I feel, and here's what I want, and you need to start. But there needs to be some, some really specific benchmarks, because here's what's gonna happen. I think, do you love this man? Do you love him?
32:41 Speaker 00 Yeah, we've been together a long time.
32:44 Dr. John Delony? Okay, so he's part of you. He's like an arm or a leg at this point, right?
32:47 Speaker 00 Yeah.
32:47 Dr. John Delony? Okay, you love him, but you don't like this guy at all.
32:50 Speaker 00 Uh huh.
32:52 Dr. John Delony? Is that fair?
32:53 Speaker 00 That's probably fair, yeah.
32:54 Dr. John Delony? Okay, like, you, you love him, he's part of you at this point. Y'all have made a life together, but you don't like the guy.
33:01 Speaker 00 Yeah.
33:02 Dr. John Delony? If you don't establish some pretty clear benchmarks, your, your like and dislike is just, the finish line there is gonna keep moving. And so if you say, I just need you to help out around here some more. Well, in his head, he's got a picture of what helps out looks like. And he's got a picture of what some more looks like. And for you, you have a picture now, but you're gonna be judging whether he's helping out some more by whether you feel like you like him. And that finish line will keep moving and moving and moving. Do you get what I'm saying?
33:38 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, I've seen that whole cycle happen.
33:41 Dr. John Delony? Okay, and then he realizes, I can't win here. There's no way that I can bring this thing back because she just keeps moving the line on me, or nothing I ever do is enough, or as Terry Real says, most men just want to know, why don't my wife, why doesn't my wife like me? What is so bad about me? And it comes down to a set of like, aligning pictures and words, and then really saying, here's what I need in this house, and specific metrics. And I know that feels very unromantic, and very un-Hollywood, and very unsexy, but Hollywood was never real.
34:23 Speaker 00 Yeah, I feel like in the last year, because I've talked to, I've talked to, um, I've talked to our eldership and I have a couple of really good friends that we've walked through. And so I've put down some really specific things. Um, but I think the follow through or having like the backbone to follow through is the, the hard part that I've struggled with.
34:46 Dr. John Delony? Tell me what you mean by that.
34:48 Speaker 00 Um, well, like, because I, I did ask him to move out or I said I would move out with the kids. Um, if he continued to speak to us this way, or if he spoke to the, the kids like he had, or to me like that again. And so that stops for a few weeks and then something happens. But I don't just move out when that happens. And we just have another conversation about it.
35:13 Dr. John Delony? Okay. So you've heard me say this in the last year, behavior is a language. So he understands that when you're mad, he just has to hang on and the storm will pass.
35:25 Speaker 00 Yeah.
35:26 Dr. John Delony? Because your, your, your, your behavior says, forget what I say. I'm not actually going to go anywhere.
35:35 Dr. John Delony? And when you say, speak to the kids in that way. I remember one time I sat down with a supervisor and I said, if you curse at me again, I will get up and walk out of this room and I will not come back. Are we on the same page? I never cursed. I said, if you curse at me again, I will get up and walk out. And the, the response was a long pause and it was understood. And to this leader's credit, the supervisor's credit, it never happened again.
36:02 Dr. John Delony? So had, did you, when you spoke to him and said, I don't like the way you talk to the kids. Did you say, if you yell again, if you belittle me or make fun of me again, if you curse at us again, we leave?
36:14 Speaker 00 I have said that.
36:16 Dr. John Delony? Okay, okay.
36:16 Speaker 00 I have said that. Yeah. So it's cursing, calling names.
36:19 Dr. John Delony? Great. Good for you.
36:20 Speaker 00 Things like that.
36:21 Dr. John Delony? Okay. So now it's just a matter of follow through. Or you come back and say, I'm not going to leave. I'm actually not leaving. I'm never going to leave.
36:30 Dr. John Delony? I want you to choose to not treat us like we're, like, you know, we're like, you don't love us, that we're in the way somehow in your life.
36:41 Dr. John Delony? Can I ask you something insane?
36:43 Speaker 00 Yeah.
36:46 Dr. John Delony? When's the last time you made him a cup of coffee?
36:49 Speaker 00 Every day, almost.
36:50 Dr. John Delony? Okay, alright, so you're trying.
36:53 Speaker 00 Yeah, I have spent a lot of years trying. This last, uh, probably the last three months has gotten really, really hard. I just kind of have shut down, um, in a lot of ways. Like, I'm really having trouble just getting through my days.
37:07 Dr. John Delony? Is that because you know what's coming?
37:09 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah. And I'm a homeschool mom, and, like, there's just never a break.
37:15 Dr. John Delony? Yeah, but it's bigger than that.
37:19 Dr. John Delony? Are you coming to the realization that your life is not gonna change unless you do something dramatic?
37:26 Speaker 00 Yeah, and I feel like I've been making dramatic steps for a year.
37:30 Dr. John Delony? Okay. You've been making dramatic statements for a year.
37:36 Dr. John Delony? But you haven't been making dramatic steps, right?
37:39 Speaker 00 Yeah, other than bringing other people into the picture to try to
37:44 Speaker 00 help get us some guidance and direction.
37:48 Dr. John Delony? Does he want that guidance and direction?
37:53 Speaker 00 Um...
37:55 Speaker 00 I don't think so. I think, I think he says he does. But it's really hard for him to submit to any kind of authority.
38:05 Dr. John Delony? So if behavior's a language, what's he been telling you for the last year?
38:16 Speaker 00 I don't know. Cause he knows I'm not gonna do anything.
38:19 Dr. John Delony? What has he been telling you?
38:23 Dr. John Delony? If behavior's a language, what has your husband been telling you for the last year? After you sat down and said, "I can't do this anymore"?
38:32 Speaker 00 Um, he's, he's tried to put in some effort. Um.
38:40 Dr. John Delony? So let me ask you this on behalf of him. Are you done? Is this theater?
38:48 Speaker 00 I've been asking myself that for a couple of weeks now for really solidly if I'm, if I'm done.
38:53 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
38:54 Speaker 00 And about 90% of me says yes.
38:56 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
38:57 Speaker 00 I just don't know how.
39:00 Dr. John Delony? What does that mean?
39:03 Speaker 00 I can't support ourselves and I can't support the kids and I don't have a job and I homeschool my kids and.
39:12 Dr. John Delony? So, so some of those things are gonna have to change.
39:15 Speaker 00 Yeah.
39:16 Dr. John Delony? Your kid's gonna have to go to regular school. And you're gonna have to get a job. And you're gonna have to do this officially so that your husband will pay child support and alimony.
39:31 Speaker 00 And I don't, I don't want that. I want, I want.
39:33 Dr. John Delony? I know what you want, but what is is what it is. He doesn't want to make it work. If behavior is a language for a year, he's been telling you, yeah, I don't care.
39:47 Dr. John Delony? I just want you to turn the lights back off, turn the music back on. Let's just go about our regular life.
39:52 Speaker 00 Yeah.
39:53 Dr. John Delony? I'll meet with whatever guy you want me to meet with and I'll tell him I'm gonna work hard, but I'm not going to. And I'd rather have my ego intact than my family intact.
40:12 Speaker 00 Yeah, I think there's an element to that for sure.
40:15 Dr. John Delony? I mean, if somebody won't submit to an authority, it's funny, I, I, I started a new, uh, training program with a new trainer and I've had the same, like, I've been, like, worked with the same guys for years. And I just started a whole new thing just to mix it up. And it's a pretty amazing company and the trainer sat down with me and we walked through it all and the trainer was like, oh my gosh, okay, you know all the stuff. And I was like, yeah, I know all the stuff. And he said, how can I help you? And I said, I'm submitting to you. If you tell me to do this, you put it in the app, I'm going to do it with no questions asked.
40:55 Dr. John Delony? And he was like, wow, I go, I am submitting to you. You are my trainer from this point forward. I said that to my minister at my church. When I signed up to place membership at your church, I submitted to your leadership. And that's just my particular faith community.
41:13 Speaker 00 Yeah.
41:14 Dr. John Delony? And he is, your husband, won't submit to somebody, to a therapist who says, I know more about what's happening than you do.
41:20 Speaker 00 Yeah.
41:20 Dr. John Delony? Nah, I don't want that. I want, I'd rather be right.
41:24 Dr. John Delony? I'd rather my illusion of power. That's cool. He's gonna lose everything. Or here's the other side. He's not gonna lose anything. Nothing's gonna change. He's just gonna slowly, his wife's just gonna turn to dust in his presence.
41:40 Speaker 00 Yeah, that's happened.
41:42 Dr. John Delony? Yeah, I can feel it. You don't deserve that. Your kids don't deserve that. He doesn't deserve that.
41:50 Dr. John Delony? And so I think the conversation is 90%, like, you've done all the feeling parts of this. There's the tactile, direct.
42:01 Dr. John Delony? How much money will it cost for me to get an apartment for the kids? Or how much, like, husband, you're moving out on this date.
42:09 Dr. John Delony? I've got somebody at my local church who will serve as an attorney and will do this at a discounted rate for us.
42:17 Dr. John Delony? You are telling me by your actions, you don't want to be married to me anymore. Cause you can't curse at me and the kids and you can't scare your family and all the other things that you're not telling me on the, on the air, which I know are going on.
42:29 Dr. John Delony? Fair?
42:31 Speaker 00 Yeah.
42:31 Dr. John Delony? Yeah.
42:35 Dr. John Delony? And so here, here, I guess my challenge for you is this.
42:40 Dr. John Delony? I would love for you to sit down with somebody and actually put a pen to paper and make an actual plan with actual numbers. And exhale on that plan.
42:51 Dr. John Delony? Cause right now you've made all these grand gestures and these statements and they're brave and they're different. But they don't have any action behind them. They don't have any steps behind them. And good on you. You've, you've continued to tell him, you cannot talk to us like this. And here's what that means. And other, I'm sure there's other things you've said. You cannot hit me again. You cannot spin this again. You cannot come home drunk again, or whatever you've laid out for him.
43:19 Dr. John Delony? And through his actions, he said, "I don't care. I will weather the storm." And you always make these big proclamations, you don't ever do anything. And here she goes again, "I'm gonna let it ride," and then we're gonna move on. And if you wanna let it ride, let it ride. Let it ride. But stop beating yourself up over it. Or, if you are done, the 90% you've thought through it and felt through it and prayed through it and gotten wise counsel through it, and there's 10% left, then if you're done, then for the sake of him, for you, for your kids, go make a plan and put it on paper and see what happens next. At least you've got, at least you're acting from a place of, with a firm foundation, instead
44:04 Dr. John Delony? of just a sense of feeling. My dream is that your marriage is saved, is that he goes, "What am I doing? My stupid ego is about to blow this whole thing up." And me and my wife haven't liked each other for a long time, but we can get that back. That's not hard to get back, we can get that back. And I don't want these kids to grow up with going to two different Christmases and two different things, we can get that back. God, I wish he would do that. And I wish you would love yourself enough to demand that. But also, there's a financial reality, there's a fiscal, I mean, there's just, there's reality after reality after reality after reality. I get that.
44:46 Dr. John Delony? But I think it's time for action steps. You say, "How can I support my husband's growth?" It doesn't sound like he's growing. If you see growth in trajectory, then you start practicing, "How do we like each other again? Let's go do fun things together. Let's do questions for humans together. Let's go be silly together. Let's go see a movie together. Let's go see a play together. I don't know what y'all are into. Let's go fishing together, whatever things y'all are into. Let's begin to work on our friendship. Let's work on liking ourselves together." But what I'm hearing is, he's not growing. It sounds like he abused you one last time, you said enough is enough is enough, and you drew the line, and then he stepped over that line, and you're thinking, "Oh, oh, this is real." I hate this for you, my friend.
45:31 Dr. John Delony? I'll be here every step of the way. Call me anytime, any way I can help you. Any way I can help you.
45:40 Dr. John Delony? I think it's time to get some wise counsel in your life, some friends around you and say, "Okay, I don't have to, I don't have to act, but I at least need to get some action steps. I at least need to have a plan on paper and see what this is going to look like." And then me and my husband are going to sit back down and say, "Okay, you didn't follow through. Here's what happens next."
45:59 Dr. John Delony? Until the call, my friend. We'll be right back.
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47:33 Dr. John Delony? All right, let's go to Austin, Texas and talk to Steven. Hey Steven, what's up, brother?
47:38 Speaker 02 Yeah, so I guess just kind of the condensed version of my question would be, how do I overcome anxiety related to having children?
47:49 Dr. John Delony? Oh, good question. What are you anxious about?
47:53 Speaker 02 Um, I am terrified of screwing up somebody else's life.
48:01 Speaker 02 My, I like to think that I came from a pretty good family, but my dad had his issues and a lot of those issues kind of got passed on and I'm scared to pass those same issues.
48:12 Dr. John Delony? Tell me about them. What are your issues? Don't tell me about your dad's. What are your issues that you think you have that are going to ruin a child?
48:21 Speaker 02 Man, um, well, in the past, I've struggled with addiction. Now, that's a long time ago in my life. I've been clean for about 10 years at this point.
48:33 Dr. John Delony? What was your drug of choice?
48:35 Speaker 02 Pardon?
48:35 Dr. John Delony? What was your drug of choice?
48:38 Speaker 02 Uh, it was alcohol and cocaine.
48:40 Dr. John Delony? Okay. So the big boys, huh?
48:44 Speaker 02 Yes, sir.
48:45 Dr. John Delony? Yeah. Uh, what, what, what did alcohol and cocaine, what did that wallpaper over for you?
48:55 Speaker 02 Um,
49:00 Speaker 02 I guess, I guess several things. Um, I had a, I had a friend that died when I was young. And, and that kind of spurred a lot of this stuff on.
49:14 Speaker 02 Alcohol was, it started with alcohol and then kind of moved on beyond that. Um, so it's the death of a close friend, my best friend, actually.
49:26 Speaker 02 Beyond that, I had kind of dealt with just general depression and anxiety related issues growing up. Um, didn't really realize what they were up until, truthfully, I got clean. I didn't really realize that's what I was doing. I was trying to cover up, you know, those depression issues and all the anxiety issues that I was having. But I would say that those two things were probably the two biggest contributors.
49:56 Dr. John Delony? How old were you when your buddy died?
49:59 Speaker 02 Uh, I was eighteen.
50:00 Dr. John Delony? Eighteen? I'm sorry about your friend.
50:04 Speaker 02 Thank you.
50:05 Dr. John Delony? What was his name?
50:07 Speaker 02 Uh, her name was Montana.
50:09 Dr. John Delony? Montana?
50:10 Speaker 02 Uh... Yes, sir.
50:11 Dr. John Delony? Was she goofy, was she silly, was she serious? Sexy, funny? Tell me about her.
50:17 Speaker 02 Uh, yeah, she was pretty goofy. Uh, she was a big WWE fan.
50:22 Dr. John Delony? Oh, sweet dude!
50:24 Speaker 02 Yeah. So, that kinda gives you an idea of like, you know, just the kind of person that she was.
50:30 Dr. John Delony? Yeah.
50:31 Speaker 02 Great person, though. Would give you the shirt off her back if it helped somebody else out. Um, yeah.
50:36 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
50:39 Dr. John Delony? And before that, what role did she play in your life?
50:43 Speaker 02 Um, she was just my... my closest friend. Um, she, uh... We... we were together all the time. Um, never any kinda like a romantic thing or anything like that. Truly just friends. Um, we... we worked together for a period of time.
51:06 Dr. John Delony? Mm-hmm.
51:06 Speaker 02 Um, so she was a coworker. We would hang out. Um, we... truth be told, we partied a little bit. Um, now, that was... that was kinda before the cocaine. That was, uh, a little bit of the drinking. Had just started out, you know, just kinda teenage...
51:23 Dr. John Delony? Sure.
51:23 Speaker 02 You know, experimentation, I guess.
51:26 Dr. John Delony? Was, uh... Did your dad struggle with substance abuse?
51:29 Speaker 02 Yes, sir.
51:29 Dr. John Delony? Okay. How long? Your whole life?
51:33 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah. My whole life.
51:34 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
51:35 Speaker 02 Still going to this day.
51:36 Dr. John Delony? Where's mom?
51:38 Speaker 02 Um, divorced. That happened about a year ago.
51:42 Dr. John Delony? Oh, okay.
51:45 Dr. John Delony? So, tell me if I'm way off base here, and I don't mind being way off base, okay?
51:49 Speaker 02 Mm-hmm.
51:52 Dr. John Delony? When you grow up in the home of somebody who's struggling with addiction of any kind, you grow up next to like a ghost image of your mom or your dad, or your brother or your sister.
52:09 Dr. John Delony? And especially when you're a little kid and into your early teen years,
52:16 Dr. John Delony? everything a child does has to be anchored into two adults that care about them.
52:24 Dr. John Delony? And you're anchoring into a ghost. You try to hug this person and they weren't there. Your dad was on the couch, but he wasn't there.
52:33 Dr. John Delony? Your dad would smile at you, but he'd look through you.
52:38 Dr. John Delony? And then you have this wild card goofball WWE loving fun friend that happens to be a girl, which when you're a young boy, it feels like you got the keys to the kingdom, right?
52:49 Speaker 02 Mm hmm.
52:50 Dr. John Delony? Two of my best friends growing up were girls and I, I, I felt like I had insider knowledge. Right? It was amazing. And, but you have a special connection, especially non-romantic friendship, which is pretty rare, but it's pretty rad.
53:07 Dr. John Delony? But it sounds like you may have been a really lonely kid. And then your whole world went away when you were 18.
53:19 Speaker 02 That, that sounds pretty right.
53:22 Dr. John Delony? So how old are you now?
53:24 Speaker 02 I'm 32.
53:25 Dr. John Delony? Okay. Something in the last 12 to 14 years has happened. You don't like you anymore.
53:34 Dr. John Delony? Why not?
53:37 Speaker 02 Um.
53:40 Speaker 02 You know, that, that's a good question. I, um.
53:43 Dr. John Delony? Don't, don't go back to the past. Give me right now. Are you, are you, I mean, you're worried about kids. Are you married? Are you seeing somebody?
53:50 Speaker 02 Uh, I'm engaged. We've been, we've been dating for about five and a half years.
53:55 Dr. John Delony? Good God, it's taken you so long.
53:58 Speaker 02 Um, you know, there, there were, so I guess it's kind of separately on that. There were all sorts of goals that I had in my mind, like, oh, I want to have a house ready to go. That way when we get married, you know, we got a house to go to and, uh, and also if I'm, if I'm going to be real honest, I knew that shortly after we got married, kids were going to come into the picture. She made it clear pretty early on that she wanted kids. And while I, I certainly am not against that, uh, I knew that like, once I pulled that trigger, blood timers counting down at that point, you know?
54:31 Dr. John Delony? Okay. Two, two things, two things on that. When you grow up with anxiety and low level dysthymia, little, low level depression, that just hangs around like a bad headache all the time. Right?
54:44 Dr. John Delony? Um, one of the ways you can cope with that is trying to grasp every variable in the world and control it.
54:52 Dr. John Delony? I will make this much money by this age. I will have a house by this age. I will have this degree by this age. I will be at this job. See what I'm saying? It's a kid trying to create order out of a chaotic childhood into adulthood. But the only way we're told, we're taught how to create order is by these external metrics. These external things that are supposed to tell us that we're doing okay and we're all fine now. And it sounds like for the last 14 years, you've been accomplishing those things. Are you pretty damn accomplished? Are you pretty good at what you do?
55:29 Speaker 02 I like to think so.
55:30 Dr. John Delony? Yeah, like I can hear it. Like, what do you do for a living? Give me a general picture.
55:35 Speaker 02 I work in sales.
55:36 Dr. John Delony? Okay, and you do well?
55:38 Speaker 02 Uh, yes, sir, I do.
55:39 Dr. John Delony? Do you do real well?
55:41 Speaker 02 Uh, I like to think so. I guess it depends on what metric you're looking at, but generally speaking, yes, sir.
55:47 Dr. John Delony? You salespeople always have the next guy ahead of you. Give me a, give me a salary ballpark.
55:58 Speaker 02 Um, so, uh, the job that I work, um, if I just do my job, I make around, I would only make around 50,000.
56:08 Dr. John Delony? Okay.
56:08 Speaker 02 Um, I'm regularly in the 90 to 100 range.
56:12 Dr. John Delony? Okay. And you had a magic number that you thought if I got six figures, then it was gonna be okay?
56:18 Speaker 02 Yes, sir.
56:21 Dr. John Delony? And you, you learned that sucky thing that we all learn, which is you made six figures that one time and you went with you. And you still didn't like you, even though you had that number?
56:43 Speaker 02 I guess that's right, yes, sir.
56:49 Dr. John Delony? The second thing is this, I don't want you to enter into a marriage where you feel like you are entering into a mother-son relationship.
57:01 Speaker 02 Oh, no, no, sir.
57:03 Dr. John Delony? Where you like lose control, right?
57:08 Dr. John Delony? If, if you want to get married and you want to start creating a life with this person, but you're not ready to have kids, I want you to enter into a relationship with a partner who will honor that and walk with you.
57:18 Speaker 02 Absolutely.
57:18 Dr. John Delony? Does that make, does that make sense?
57:20 Speaker 02 Yes, sir, absolutely.
57:22 Dr. John Delony? Okay, so it's kind of tongue-in-cheek?
57:27 Dr. John Delony? Kind of, uh, like the day you get married, she's not gonna be like, "Ha, ha, ha", and like do a, burn the birth control ceremony, and then like, "We're having", like, that's not gonna happen, right?
57:37 Speaker 02 No, no.
57:39 Dr. John Delony? Um, I, I, here's the deal, I want you to maintain your voice, but all this to say, what are you concerned about with your kids? What do you think you're gonna do to a child?
57:50 Speaker 02 Um, specifically, I, I don't know. Abstractly, I'm, I'm worried about passing on, you know, my own problems that I've dealt with, and, you know, my dad has dealt with, and other families have dealt, other family members have dealt with.
58:09 Dr. John Delony? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, your dad hasn't dealt with it, you have.
58:12 Speaker 02 Fair enough, yeah.
58:14 Dr. John Delony? Say this, repeat after me, "I am not my dad."
58:21 Speaker 02 Uh, I'm not my dad?
58:23 Dr. John Delony? No, no, no. "I am not my dad."
58:28 Speaker 02 I'm not my dad.
58:31 Dr. John Delony? Will you make a commitment, when you have a child, every day you're in town, you will tell that kid, boy or girl, son or daughter, you will look that child in the eye and say, "I love you", and give him a hug?
58:43 Speaker 02 Absolutely.
58:45 Dr. John Delony? There will never be a day of that kid's life that they don't fully know that dad loves them.
58:53 Speaker 02 Absolutely.
58:54 Dr. John Delony? Will you make a commitment to stay sober? And if you find yourself unable to, like, needing to numb some sort of hurt, that you'll seek professional help? You'll go get the care that you need?
59:07 Speaker 02 Absolutely. Yes, sir.
59:09 Dr. John Delony? Say, repeat after me. "Man, I screwed up. I'm sorry."
59:15 Speaker 02 "Man, I screwed up. I'm sorry."
59:19 Dr. John Delony? If you can say those words, you're gonna be a world-class dad.
59:24 Dr. John Delony? Will you commit to never making your kid feel small, even if they've got weird, wacky dreams, and not swearing and yelling at your kids?
59:31 Speaker 02 Absolutely.
59:33 Dr. John Delony? Will you commit to honoring those kids' mom till the end of time?
59:36 Speaker 02 Absolutely.
59:36 Dr. John Delony? That doesn't mean agreeing with everything, but that means treating her with dignity and respect.
59:41 Speaker 02 Yes, sir.
59:42 Dr. John Delony? You need to start having kids tomorrow, because I want more dads like you out in the world right now.
59:48 Speaker 02 It's funny, that's what my fiance says as well.
59:54 Dr. John Delony? So, here's the deal. I don't think you're scared of passing on... I don't think you're scared of ruining your kids. Here's what I think you're scared of.
1:00:03 Dr. John Delony? I think you're scared of your kids looking at you
1:00:08 Dr. John Delony? and thinking about you like you think about you.
1:00:12 Dr. John Delony? I think you're scared about having kids and them looking at you and becoming ghosts, just like your mom and dad did.
1:00:23 Dr. John Delony? And I want you to let that fear go.
1:00:28 Dr. John Delony? Okay?
1:00:30 Speaker 02 Yes, sir.
1:00:31 Dr. John Delony? Your kids will love you till the moon and back.
1:00:36 Dr. John Delony? And they demand little things, like presents. And putting your phone down. And sitting in the mud with them.
1:00:44 Dr. John Delony? And like my daughter last night, scraping snowflakes off of a disgusting sidewalk and eating it. I just let it roll, dude. You know what I mean?
1:00:57 Speaker 02 Yes, sir.
1:01:00 Dr. John Delony? And I had a hard, hard conversation last night with my son. He's really struggling when it comes to my phone restrictions and all that. And it's hard. I hate it for him, man.
1:01:10 Dr. John Delony? But he knows that I love him.
1:01:15 Dr. John Delony? And you're gonna be that kinda dad. But your kids aren't gonna stare through a hole through you.
1:01:22 Dr. John Delony? They're just not. You're gonna be the most important thing of their entire world.
1:01:27 Dr. John Delony? But the person that needs to believe that is you.
1:01:31 Dr. John Delony? And your dad drank cuz he was going through hell, not because of anything you did.
1:01:36 Dr. John Delony? And your mom left not because of you, because she was dealing with crap. She was dealing with her own hell.
1:01:44 Dr. John Delony? Think of it this way. There's a period at the end of that sentence.
1:01:49 Dr. John Delony? And the world is waiting to find out what Stephen's gonna write next.
1:01:55 Dr. John Delony? When is your wedding, dude?
1:01:58 Speaker 02 We're still trying to figure out dates.
1:02:02 Dr. John Delony? Good God, go to the Justice of the Peace tomorrow. Five and a half years. Plan a party later.
1:02:08 Speaker 02 If it makes you feel any better, the proposal actually just happened last night. And she said yes.
1:02:12 Dr. John Delony? She said yes?
1:02:13 Speaker 02 We haven't figured out the dates yet.
1:02:16 Dr. John Delony? Well, go this weekend and just call it. You've been dating for half a decade already.
1:02:22 Speaker 02 Yes, sir.
1:02:26 Dr. John Delony? And I want, here's what I want you to do. Tonight, will you do me a weird favor?
1:02:31 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:02:31 Dr. John Delony? This is gonna sound crazy. This may be the most romantic thing you've ever done. And I want you to take full credit for this and don't say that you heard it from some podcast guy, okay?
1:02:39 Speaker 02 Okay.
1:02:40 Dr. John Delony? You're 32. How old's your wife? Your fiancee?
1:02:45 Speaker 02 She's 28.
1:02:46 Dr. John Delony? 28. I want you to write a letter to the 38-year-old her.
1:02:54 Dr. John Delony? And 10 years from now.
1:02:56 Speaker 02 Okay.
1:02:57 Dr. John Delony? And I want you to write about what kind of husband you are gonna become over the next decade. What kinda man you're gonna become over the next decade.
1:03:07 Dr. John Delony? And how you're gonna dedicate your life to listening. And to not trying to solve, but to be with her. And to love her and to provide.
1:03:18 Dr. John Delony? And then I want you to write a letter to your future kid.
1:03:24 Dr. John Delony? 10 years from now. So maybe that kid will be eight. Or knowing you, you won't get married for four more years because you want to plan the perfect wedding. So whatever. But, but I want you to write a letter to that kid and I want you to read it to her.
1:03:39 Dr. John Delony? Here's what's gonna be different.
1:03:43 Dr. John Delony? Because God chose me to be your dad.
1:03:49 Dr. John Delony? And I want you to read it to your wife and I want you, or to your fiance. I want you to put it out into the universe, but more importantly, I want you to hear it. Here's what kind of dad I am going to become.
1:04:02 Dr. John Delony? The great Terry Real says, "Family trauma rolls...
1:04:10 Dr. John Delony? burns through a family like a forest fire until one person turns and stares it down.
1:04:18 Dr. John Delony? And brings peace to generations they will never know."
1:04:24 Dr. John Delony? And the part I added is the person who turns and stares it down gets burned and gets scars. And it's painful, but he brings peace, as Terry says, to those next generations. That's you.
1:04:37 Dr. John Delony? And this is you saying, "This generational substance abuse, the generational depression, the generational anxiety stops with me. My kids will know love and connection and laughter and warmth and joy. And they'll know sadness and grief too.
1:04:52 Dr. John Delony? But this stops with me. And I'm putting a stake in the ground right now. And to my dear fiance, here's the life you can expect over the next 10 years. I dedicate my life to you. And to kids that aren't even here yet, here's the dad I'm gonna become. I'm gonna start working on this right now. Actually, you started working on this 14 years ago and you decided to get sober. And one last letter, you got three to write.
1:05:16 Dr. John Delony? I want you to write one last letter to your friend.
1:05:20 Dr. John Delony? And once you go back and listen to this interview, this, this conversation between us. Whenever you brought her up, you lit up like a Christmas tree. I could hear it in your voice. I want you to go back and write her a letter and let her go.
1:05:36 Dr. John Delony? Let her go be free with whatever WWE angels she's hanging out with.
1:05:44 Dr. John Delony? And commit to her in that letter, "I'm gonna live a life for both of us now." And it's gonna be wheels off, off the top rope, wheels off.
1:05:55 Dr. John Delony? I'm gonna be the dad I never had.
1:05:59 Dr. John Delony? There's no anxiety about bringing kids into the future. It is wheels off. By the way, that's a crazy statement. Of course, we're gonna be anxious about kids. The world's a crazy place.
1:06:09 Dr. John Delony? I'm gonna make these commitments now, then I'm gonna go do the next right thing to make these commitments happen.
1:06:14 Dr. John Delony? Send me a wedding invitation, brother. And let me know when little Steven Jr.'s on the way. Or Stevenetta, I don't know who it's gonna be. Boy or girl? I made that real weird, sorry. Kelly's looking at me like, "Yeah, you made that weird." Send me a birth notice here in a couple of years.
1:06:33 Dr. John Delony? The work you've done, Steven, is amazing.
1:06:37 Dr. John Delony? And I think the work is just getting started. Thanks for the call, brother. We'll be right back.
1:06:43 Dr. John Delony? I am the founding member of the Get Off the Internet and Go Outside Club. And yet, like all of you, I find myself at work and my personal life pretty much living on the internets these days. As a society, we're creating more and more online accounts all the time. And we're signing up for promos, giving away our emails and personal numbers, and buying everything with our phones. I get hundreds of emails to my personal account, my business accounts, and every business wants to survey me and become my friend. And everyone everywhere is trying to sell me all kinds of stuff. It drives me nuts. And with all of this online activity, do any of us really know where our data is and who has it?
1:07:25 Dr. John Delony? Chances are high that data broker websites have your information, and they're selling it to scammers, spammers, and other shady people. But when you use Delete Me, they find and remove your data from hundreds of sites, and they send you reports throughout the year to show you exactly what they've removed and from where. And right now, I'm getting way fewer of those spammy texts and phone calls, and it allows me to let my guard down just a little bit and finally feel some peace. This new year, I want you to share the peace by giving a Delete Me subscription to someone you love. Individual Delete Me plans start as low as $9 a month. Go to join, J-O-I-N,
1:08:06 Dr. John Delony? delete me dot com slash Deloney today for 20% off. That's joindelete.me dot com slash Deloney. All right, we are back. All right, something cool happened. Kelly, what is it?
1:08:19 Speaker 03 All right, this is from Ryan. He said, "I heard John reference a song called Ceasefire by Frank Turner during an episode."
1:08:25 Dr. John Delony? Oh geez, that song makes me weep.
1:08:28 Speaker 03 "I listened to it and the song really resonated with me. I like to say this year has been sort of my post-war era. I'm 32 and growing up in a chaotic household taught me to always look for high-energy situations and environments. My 15-year-old self was always on the battlefield, and ever since, I've been continuing to show up on the battlefield, starting the wars if I needed to. This year, I decided to change that. But much like the song, I think about my 15-year-old self a lot. And although I love him very much, I realized that I was being very unkind to him. I expected him to figure things out that he never could have solved. As John would say, it's time to go let him pay, let him play. And for me, right now, it's time for peace."
1:09:11 Dr. John Delony? Oh my gosh.
1:09:15 Dr. John Delony? If you guys, hey, that's, that's a...
1:09:19 Dr. John Delony? That guy will get me choked up on the way home. I'm gonna act tough until I leave. And I appreciate that call. What was that, what was that, that letter? What was that, whose name?
1:09:27 Speaker 03 His name is Ryan.
1:09:28 Dr. John Delony? Ryan, thank you, brother. Thank you for that. If I could wish for anything for anybody, it would be peace between them and their 15-year-old selves. And if you want to go check it out, everybody listening, Frank Turner's Ceasefire, that song off his latest record is just... I don't know if I said this on the show, but I listened to it and I just started sobbing and sobbing and sobbing. And one of my oldest buddies, the drummer in my band in high school, one of my closest friends in the world, he reached out and goes, "Dude, tell me you've got this new record. It's so amazing." And I was like, "Yeah." I said, "This song." And he immediately wrote back and said, "As soon as I heard that, I thought of you, dude." And just the war I had in my head with my, when I was 15, that has continued on. Yeah,
1:10:10 Dr. John Delony? if you're struggling with letting yourself off the hook, your former self off the hook. Maybe today's the day. Let your former self go rest in peace. The world's waiting to find out what you're gonna write next. Grab a pen and let's get going. Love you guys. Stay in school, don't do drugs. Bye.
1:10:30 Dr. John Delony? Hey, what's up, folks? Big news. The Dr. John Deloney Show is now available a full week early in the Ramsey Network app. That's right. You can catch all the real talk of mental health, relationships, emotional health before anyone else. And the best part? It's completely free. Just click the link in the show notes to download the Ramsey Network app and start watching early today.
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