Watch Expert Brutally Exposes Rolex ‘Waitlist’ Scam, Dirty Secrets, & Celebrity Fakes | Nico Leonard

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

  This industry is my life. And I think that the watch industry is lost in every way, shape or form. It's never been at a worse place than it is today.

• 0:40Speaker 02

  The attitude, the arrogance.

• 0:43Speaker 01

  The retail side of this industry is full with lies and marketing. It is actually scary. Your customer should be number one. The customer is the reason of your company, not the other way around.

• 0:54Graham Stephan?

  So is the waitlist real?

• 0:55Speaker 01

  No, absolutely not. The watch industry tries to create a narrative for you to buy a watch. Rolex is not scarce, but yet they make you believe that they are the rarest thing in the world. The mainstream watch brands have been telling fake and bull stories to sell their product.

• 1:15Graham Stephan?

  What do they lie about?

• 1:16Speaker 01

  Just to be very clear, it's not that I am looking for enemies, but this industry would collapse if I would tell you the truth.

• 1:28Graham Stephan?

  Niko, thank you so much for coming on the Ice Coffee Hour.

• 1:31Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me. We've been talking about this for a good, a good amount of time and I'm, I'm honored that I'm here.

• 1:38Graham Stephan?

  I've been looking forward to this a lot. And I want to start by getting your reaction to this tweet that got 30 million views not too long ago. It says, "If you're a guy in your early twenties, buy a Rolex. Go into debt if you have to. This is not satire. You can get a Rolex for four grand. Having a nice watch communicates status to women in business relationships. And if you buy it right, it will hold its value, if not appreciate."

• 2:04Speaker 01

  I think that's the biggest load of bollocks I've heard in a very long time. I do agree that that watch shows status, but if you need that status to...

• 2:15Speaker 01

  Do business? I think you're, I think you're overstepping the mark. I think you need to enable for you to do, do business. You need to have, have different talents first.

• 2:25Graham Stephan?

  But don't you think for four grand, it's pretty cheap to get in?

• 2:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, but if you go in debt for four grand, I think you have other problems, to be honest. So I think you need to solve that first. If, if four grand gets you into debt, priorities first.

• 2:39Graham Stephan?

  So everyone knows you as reacting to celebrity watch collections, calling out fake watches, all of this. I love those videos. I'm curious, how many watches have you currently bought, sold? What's your collection like today?

• 2:53Speaker 01

  I don't know the exact number of my personal collection, but I am pretty sure it's significantly over 200. I don't think I crossed the line of 300 watches today.

• 3:04Speaker 01

  But like the amount of watches I, I have sold personally or one of my companies is, is, is, is a lot.

• 3:12Graham Stephan?

  What's the value of that?

• 3:14Speaker 01

  We turn over about, say, 35 million a year. So five years, yes, it's quite all right. It's a good number.

• 3:21Graham Stephan?

  What's the most expensive watch that you own?

• 3:24Speaker 01

  I would say 1.8 million dollars. Yeah.

• 3:27Graham Stephan?

  What is it?

• 3:28Speaker 01

  It's a Pichonique. It's a watch made by Audemars Piguet and it's a prototype to the, to an actual really important model. A watch that was never supposed to be sold.

• 3:37Graham Stephan?

  How do you get that?

• 3:41Speaker 01

  I knew about the existence of that watch for many years.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  But I never really had the money to, to acquire that. It was quite early in my career. And the gentleman that had this watch didn't really want to sell it. And at some point he did approach me and say, I'm ready to sell. And then I needed to go in debt to get that watch, to get my hands on it.

• 4:03Graham Stephan?

  And how does he get that watch to begin with?

• 4:06Speaker 01

  I think he had a, he might have worked at AP.

• 4:10Jack Selby?

  And so what is a piece unique for people who are not familiar?

• 4:13Speaker 01

  So a piece unique is a is a watch that's only one off. But like you have variations. Kevin O'Leary has a piece unique on a watch, which is different color stones on the bezel. You can call that a piece unique for sure. What I'm talking about is this is the actual prototype to a watch, the line of watches that was created. So this was the first one that was tried and tested. It is also a watch without a crown that that AP only really done in nineteen ninety seven. So it was really, really special. So a piece unique is a watch. There's one off, a unique piece.

• 4:48Jack Selby?

  How is it worth one point eight million dollars? How much did you pay for it? And what what do the finances look like in in acquiring a watch like that?

• 4:57Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, do you just send a wire? It's like, here's one point eight million dollars.

• 5:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was just a wire. Yeah, yeah, because I like I know I knew the owner, I knew the collector for for for for some years. And that's just based on trust. And this was in the middle of COVID and I actually had to cross the border illegally a good few times. This was crazy. But I bought it in the end in Romania. So that's where the watch was.

• 5:19Jack Selby?

  How is it worth one point eight million dollars?

• 5:21Speaker 01

  Well, it's worth as much as I am as I'm saying, but the last offer I got was one point eight million.

• 5:26Jack Selby?

  How much did you pay for it?

• 5:28Speaker 01

  Uh, three hundred thousand sterling.

• 5:30Jack Selby?

  Three hundred thousand?

• 5:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:32Graham Stephan?

  How did you? How did you let it go for three hundred?

• 5:35Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, that was at that point the value. This is prior to absolute hype. This is this at three hundred was a lot of money like.

• 5:43Graham Stephan?

  So how did you know that watch was going to be worth so much more in the future?

• 5:47Speaker 01

  Because that's a watch that money can't buy. Like, I mean, you could have all the money in the world. I'm the only one that owns that watch. I can set the price and I can say the value is more, but the last offer I got, which I declined, was one point eight.

• 6:02Jack Selby?

  What offer would you accept for that watch?

• 6:04Speaker 01

  I can't say that because then all of a sudden I changed the value of the watch and maybe someone comes in.

• 6:10Graham Stephan?

  But if you said twenty million dollars.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe that would be I would I would accept twenty million.

• 6:14Jack Selby?

  There we go.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  You have it, keep it like that's not the point. The point is that I love watches that money can't buy. I mean, it's easy like you see someone wearing a oh, I'm wearing my own watch.

• 6:27Jack Selby?

  Two tones of Mariner.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of people that have that. That's amazing, right? But that has a certain value on average because there's so many on the market. I have a watch, it's the only one. I defined a price and that's what it is.

• 6:43Graham Stephan?

  How often do you wear it?

• 6:44Speaker 01

  And I uh I bought it. I was quite skinny. I uh was able to wear it and I enjoyed it. Not in very dangerous places. Europe is not very safe for wearing a watch of that magnitude, right? But then I became a wee bit heavier. Basically, I became really fat. And for that watch, there's no extra links. It's not like I can call AP and say, give me some extra links. So that was a problem. So I couldn't wear it for years. And now I can. Now I can wear it, yeah.

• 7:10Graham Stephan?

  So when's the last time you wore it?

• 7:12Speaker 01

  Uh, three weeks ago.

• 7:15Graham Stephan?

  What was the occasion?

• 7:17Speaker 01

  Um, seeing a very good friend of mine that is not well. So I was just like, yeah, it's good. I like to attach memories to to to watches.

• 7:26Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. So in terms of watches themselves, who should buy a watch?

• 7:30Speaker 01

  I think everyone should buy a watch. I think that is that's massively important. I think a mechanical watch, I think we need to define that.

• 7:38Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  Or make a quite a difference in mechanical watch and an Apple watch, for example. I think we really need to split that. The Apple watch is great for the industry, honestly, great, right? Because it created a lot of risks. People are wearing watches today that wouldn't have wore watches before. We're getting used to things on our wrists, right? So that's amazing. But I think a mechanical watch is for a man, the only real legitimate jewelry. It's important. Like, I have kids. I I bought my son a watch when he was born. And I wear that watch on every single one of his birthdays. And so seventeen times, he's three now. So I wore it twice. And when he's eighteen, he gets the watch with a photo of me wearing that watch on every single one of his birthday. You see, you can't do that with anything else.

• 8:20Graham Stephan?

  Mm hmm.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  And I think it's a, it shows that you're, like, don't get me wrong. You can buy a watch at ten grand, but you can buy a watch at two hundred quid. It's fine. But I think. It's just important that you show that you take care of things. Do you think it's important? And style.

• 8:38Graham Stephan?

  What does a watch mean beyond keeping time?

• 8:41Speaker 01

  Well, that's for every person, different, of course. Um, like for me, it is a, it's an accolade. It's a reminder. Um, I don't really use a watch to tell the time. It's just a reminder for me of events, moments, a story, attachment. I'm quite sentimental on that part, but for other people, it's to flex. It's to show I have money like, like what, what happened there? With a tweet, I think it's absolutely rubbish. Uh, I think everyone at some point in their life should be able, should, well, shoot is different. I would love everyone to have the possibility to spend that money on a watch. Because I think you deserve that. Everyone deserves that. And it makes you feel better. It's like buy nice clothes. It's exactly the same.

• 9:25Graham Stephan?

  What do you think are some of the benefits today, though, of owning a really nice watch?

• 9:29Speaker 01

  To give you an idea, right? I always see this. If I see someone wearing an Omega Speedmaster, right? I always, I like to speak with that person. Not because the Speedmaster is expensive, but because I always make a joke. There's a secret club between Speedmaster owners, which is when you have the handset at, at thirty, you're a part of a secret club. That's a connection. Like if I see someone wearing a nice watch, I'm like, really cool. I want to hear the story. Why did you choose that? It's a connection between people. There's not many things. Like if someone wears a nice blouse or shirt or like you walk up to a bloke and say, I love your shirt. No. You do that when someone wears a nice watch. And that's acceptable. And that's exactly, it's connecting. I think that that's one of the most important reasons.

• 10:13Graham Stephan?

  I've noticed that too. Uh, with a lot of the people that we speak to, all you have to do is compliment them on their watch. As long as it's not something like too flashy or too like generic. Uh, there was a dude that I was playing blackjack with recently.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  You're a gambler. I love it.

• 10:28Graham Stephan?

  Occasionally, but he was wearing this vintage Daytona and it must have been from like the sixties.

• 10:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:36Graham Stephan?

  And it was on a leather strap and it was gorgeous, but I complimented him on this watch and he like his eyes lit up.

• 10:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:43Graham Stephan?

  Because it looked like just an ordinary watch, but I saw this vintage Daytona and he was so excited that someone noticed the watch. And sometimes there's little compliments or there's little ins with somebody where they just appreciate that.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  But the thing is, when you, but when you wear a vintage Daytona, you actually think about a watch. You, you're, you're in this industry. You're not financially or maybe work, but you're, you really care. You care about history. Well, I would say if you wear a vintage Daytona, it shows you're very sophisticated. That person would always be very open to have that conversation.

• 11:13Graham Stephan?

  So what watch tells you that they have zero taste?

• 11:16Speaker 01

  Um, well, if you wear a Hublot, you have absolute zero taste, like or Jacob and Co. I think Jacob and Co. is, is absolutely hugely embarrassing to be honest. Like, I think that that is, it's, it's funny how like this industry is full with lies and marketing. It is actually scary, right? The retail side of this industry is the biggest lie you've ever seen. Like this industry would collapse if, if, if, if I would tell you the truth, like it would collapse.

• 11:45Graham Stephan?

  We're, we're going to talk about that shortly. I'm curious though, before we talk about that, why do you hate Hublot so much?

• 11:52Speaker 01

  Well, it's got nothing to do with aesthetics, right? That's just taste, but it's about the, the, just cutting corners, man. Just a generic movement that sits in Hamilton and sell it for 20x. Why would you buy it? Like, that's not luxury. Like, I, I am genuinely, what a watch says about you is, well, I don't really. I'm not in the position where I really care about what people think of me anymore. I've got enough stuff all over me and I've given enough. People, to be honest, well, that was the beginning of my career. And I'm I'm different. No, I I have nothing to prove anymore. I'm just like done, right? After so many years being doing that. So I don't care. I can wear whatever. I can wear my own watch.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  I can wear a Rolex. I can wear a million dollar watch. I can wear a tech higher. I don't care. It's a watch that I want to wear at that moment in time. But a Hublot is just a statement of, I don't really care. I'm just lazy. I just watched Mbappe play promoting this. So I might just have twenty grand to spend. I'll just spend it on that. It shows that someone doesn't really care.

• 12:55Graham Stephan?

  And what about Jacob and Co?

• 12:56Speaker 01

  Well, that you're very, that you're too much on Instagram. That's what it shows. You're too much on social and very much influential or very, very easy to influence via socials.

• 13:07Graham Stephan?

  Are they worth the price?

• 13:08Speaker 01

  Not even remotely close.

• 13:09Graham Stephan?

  What do you think they're worth? Because I've seen, I've seen the one where you click it and it has like the roulette thing.

• 13:14Speaker 01

  And then I've seen. I'll, I'll get that produced for less than two and a half K. Simple. Like, that's how easy it is. Like, less than two and a half K. You pay, pay a wee bit for the gold. Like, don't get me wrong. Like, Jacob, Jacob is a good designer, to be honest. But like, he's not a watchmaker. Watches are not made by Jacob and Co. It's a company that's called Concepto in Switzerland that makes that. And they do that for different brands. But like, I mean, it's not worth anything remotely near.

• 13:39Graham Stephan?

  What do they sell it for?

• 13:40Speaker 01

  Like, to give you an idea, it's eighty percent off, mate. Like, fifty, like, I will challenge you. Anyone that watches this, that is in the social space, knows they bought the Jacob and Co. Because they got fifty percent off from Jacob to make them feel special. But he does that with everyone. So how special are you? It's just a journey, man.

• 14:02Graham Stephan?

  You said that the entire watch industry would collapse if you said the truth. What is the truth?

• 14:07Speaker 01

  If, if, if the watch industry was actually honest, which they aren't, this, this industry would collapse.

• 14:13Graham Stephan?

  What do they lie about?

• 14:14Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, look at I W C. I mean, just to be very clear, it's a complete identity crisis.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  I would say that it's all about selling watches. It's all about, listen, I'm not. Mad about how about about economy of scale. You want to, you need to sell watches, the business, right? All good. But doors to sell a watch, like I W C to this year came out with some astronaut watch. I W C is known for making formal watches and Portuguese absolutely class, Portofino amazing. But all of a sudden they want to make the most complicated to be honest. That's not you. That's not them. Like I W C is absolutely lost. Identity crisis. Worse than M J or Michael, Michael Jackson at his prime, to be honest. But the watch industry tries to create a narrative for you to buy a watch,

• 15:05Speaker 01

  right? And that's a problem. As well as that, the journey of buying a Rolex, I mean, that's quite controversial, to be honest.

• 15:14Graham Stephan?

  What do you, what do you think about it?

• 15:16Speaker 01

  Well, what do you, what do you think?

• 15:20Graham Stephan?

  I hate it. So what really upset me was that I walked in to a Rolex boutique and I was wearing a nineteen zero eighteen Oyster quartz. And I thought for sure some sales associate would at least mention it. It's such a unique watch. And I go in there and the lady's just on her phone. She could not give a shit that I was there. And I just said, hey, do you have a land dweller? I just want to be able to look at it. I'm not going in asking for a Daytona. I'm not asking for an allocation. I just want to look at it. No, we don't have it. And then she was on her phone the entire time. Never asked any questions. She couldn't care. And I left. And that turned me

• 16:02Graham Stephan?

  off so much. All she had to do is say, oh, where are you from? Oh, you're a local. Oh, that's nice. Oh, that's, that's an Oyster. I was so fed up with it that I left.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  But yeah, I do think that's more an American thing because like the Rolex is one problem, right? They have only one, only really one boutique themselves, and that's in Geneva. They actually care there. Incredibly passionate people. What you're talking to is someone that actually don't care. It's a normal job for them. If they're a sales associate at the Rolex or a sales associate at some tire place or used tire place, I don't know what you have here in the U S. It, that's more an American, U S type. Thing they just don't care. They don't know what you're wearing. They have no idea. And I noticed that in Vegas, to be honest, I've I think the the worst of the worst I've seen in Vegas. I wanted to, this is five, six years ago, I wanted to buy a specific Daytona.

• 16:52Speaker 01

  And I mean, the woman was on her phone. I have photos of that. I have photos of that. I'm like, and I lost the plot that day. Like, you're an embarrassment for a brand. You're representing the brand. And that's a wee bit of a problem with Rolex, because they don't control what an authorized dealer does or doesn't do. And and they just don't care.

• 17:10Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, I didn't like it either. I went into a different boutique and it was display only. And then they said, oh, but we have these pre-owned watches instead.

• 17:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:18Graham Stephan?

  I'm looking at the pre-owned watches. And then I pull up on chrono twenty four. I probably shouldn't have done this. And I said, well, here's the same watch. But this is twenty percent cheaper with box and papers and I could buy. Why would I pay twenty percent? Oh, well, because you get it now and it comes with the Rolex gear. I don't care for twenty percent less. I go on twenty four, get a top trusted seller. I hate it.

• 17:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 17:40Graham Stephan?

  It ruined the entire experience for me.

• 17:41Speaker 01

  At at like this point, like this thing which you mentioned, right? I think you're looking at a different way, right? You think that the watches are the luxury aspect, but it's actually the journey? Let me explain. Rolex is not scarce. Like, it's not rare at all. Like Rolex makes in, I would say, three weeks what Patek makes in one year. Like Rolex is not scarce, but yet they make you believe that they are the rarest thing in the world, right? So it's funny. The whole thing is it they make you feel it's actually a privilege for you to buy a Rolex. To make you feel it's a privilege. So privilege in that part becomes a luxury.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  Right? So you need to be grateful that you're considered.

• 18:33Speaker 01

  Being able to buy a Rolex. So you're waiting there, you're sitting there. Privilege is a luxury in this part, right? Okay, you get the phone call, finally. You can pick it up, champagne, oh, I've been considered, that's amazing, that journey. Endorphins going. You get a phone call, you can pick up your watch. More celebrations, more good Instagram photos. Ha, look, I got my new roly by my course, whatever, right? Then you have the watch, then you own the watch, then you wear the watch, it's like, oh, what's next, I want another one. Like, that journey is the product. That cycle is the product, not the watch, not the product. That journey is the luxury.

• 19:14Graham Stephan?

  So is the waitlist real?

• 19:15Speaker 01

  No, absolutely not.

• 19:17Graham Stephan?

  How do you move up on the waitlist that's not real?

• 19:21Jack Selby?

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• 19:33Graham Stephan?

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• 20:05Graham Stephan?

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• 20:14Jack Selby?

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• 20:34Graham Stephan?

  How do you move up on the waitlist that's not real?

• 20:38Speaker 01

  Well, let me put it this way, if you have a buddy at Rolex, or the Rolex authorized dealer, because we need to separate. Rolex only has one shop, that's in Geneva. Rolex recently, well, in recent years acquired Bookerer. Incredible, I must say, the team, very passionate, young people that actually care, that actually care about the brand and the product, right? That's only in Geneva, but that's where, what I have seen. You just need to suck it up. If you want the Rolex, you need to suck it up. And if that is not what you want to do, which I think you shouldn't be doing, just buy a watch whenever you have the money and buy it on the gray market. And I would argue to say that the gray market is the true, is the truth of the industry.

• 21:22Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 21:22Speaker 01

  Like retail is just a bloody lie.

• 21:24Graham Stephan?

  But in terms of getting the allocation that you want, is there any trick? Is there any way to do that? Because I've seen these people on the forums that they're like, I go in every single week. And when they give you an allocation, you have to take it. And then you have to keep visiting them and I text my A D all the time and I become friends. I've even heard of them inviting their A D out for dinners and like bringing them on to like, you know, family experiences and all this to get close with them. And then they get, you know, the allocation and they keep buying it. Is that the way to do it?

• 21:54Speaker 01

  Do you see what you say there yourself? That whole journey is the luxury aspect. It's all been, it's all a lot, like Rolex is key in that. Like Rolex is the king in that. That whole journey of being, going out for dinner, doing this, taking this person out, going in again, buying another one, that, that, that's the, that's the luxury aspect. Humans, humans want, but they cannot have. So they do, do whatever it takes. That's the privilege. That's the, the luxury aspect of it. What you're describing here, that journey is the true form of the luxury aspect of Rolex. And that's what I tried to sell. So no, you cannot avoid that unless you, your buddy owns the retail boutique,

• 22:40Speaker 01

  which, or you say, you just make a deal. I'll buy this watch. You just be straight up. I was in, I was quite straight up. I'll buy this watch for 400,000 Swiss franc. I'll buy that, but I want this watch and this watch within nine, two months. Can you make that happen? Yes. They have the Daytonas in the back. They do.

• 23:00Graham Stephan?

  So I've been told sometimes they only get like a few Daytonas a year.

• 23:02Speaker 01

  It's a load of bollocks.

• 23:03Graham Stephan?

  That's a lie.

• 23:04Speaker 01

  It's a load of bollocks. It's an absolute lie. It's the journey and they want to keep you on that journey. And this is why I say, like, If I tell you the real truth of how this industry goes, like IWC has tried exactly this. They understood that the cycle of you purchasing a watch, the cycle of the journey, was actually the one that sold the watches, not the watches, not the product itself, it was the journey. Right? So IWC introduces the engineer and they do exactly the same as Rolex, but it's IWC. It's embarrassing. They tried it. Fashion constantine overseas, nobody blinked an eyelid to it, right? All of a sudden, this IWC of this, this, this overseas, oh, it's the best thing in the world.

• 23:49Speaker 01

  Allocation only. All of a sudden, people started, oh, I can't get it, so I want it. The two, two, two launch, embarrassing, very poorly executed. They have the watches, the production is easy, but it's the journey that they tried to sell to make you, well, make you part of that.

• 24:05Graham Stephan?

  Did you see the YouTube video where this guy goes in a Rolex boutique, I think this is in London, and asks for a Hulk?

• 24:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:12Graham Stephan?

  And they say, sorry, we don't have one, you can get on the waitlist. He's like, no, I'm okay. He gets a fake Johnny Depp, gets him in full, you know, costume as a celebrity, calls Rolex ahead of time, hey, we got a celebrity coming in, gets fake paparazzi, Johnny Depp walks in, they walk him straight to the back and he gets that exact watch.

• 24:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's why I told you, like, they have the watches, but the journey is for you as a normal bloke. Right? The journey is, that's the luxury, that's the actual product. That's why you want the watch, because you can't get it.

• 24:45Jack Selby?

  So then which watch when worn tells you immediately that that person has class?

• 24:50Speaker 01

  If you wear a vintage watch, that tells me several things about you. You care about your family or it's a family heirloom, right? And it's funny, I was with, I'm here for the WWE, my first wrestling experience. Uh, I'm quite close with Joe, Roman Reigns. One of his agents or people, business people that are around him was wearing a Oyster Perpetual, funny enough. And I noticed that, I was like, it could either mean two things, right? You just bought your first Rolex and didn't want to spend a certain amount, but I, you look very flat or you look quite well dressed and stuff, so I don't think that's the case. Or it is something you inherited. He's like, yeah, it was my dad's. And I'm like, I'll blow your mind now, right? Have you ever polished this watch or cleaned this watch? It's like, no.

• 25:33Speaker 01

  Well, give me your watch. And I opened the clasp and I moved the bracelet from the clasp, it was like, see that? It's dead skin. It's your dad's. And he was like, what? I'm like, it tells me a lot about a person, right? He was mind blown, right? Like, if you check your Rolex, right? Open up your clasp, you'll see, you'll find the dead skin.

• 25:56Graham Stephan?

  Oh, gosh. Do you know who's watched this is?

• 25:58Speaker 01

  I have no idea. Who is it?

• 25:59Jack Selby?

  Take a look on the back.

• 26:00Graham Stephan?

  Take a look on the back.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Was it so bad that he had to sell it or did he give it to you?

• 26:06Jack Selby?

  He gave it to me.

• 26:07Speaker 01

  That's cool, like, that's cool. I always really liked him.

• 26:10Graham Stephan?

  He gave it to Jack on the podcast.

• 26:12Speaker 01

  Yeah?

• 26:12Graham Stephan?

  So you're saying there's a bit of Liver King's skin on this watch?

• 26:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 26:15Jack Selby?

  Smell it.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  Well, you see this? That's all dead skin, uh, black stuff. Look at it.

• 26:22Graham Stephan?

  Wow. Oh, my gosh.

• 26:24Speaker 01

  That's funny, isn't it? Like.

• 26:26Jack Selby?

  Does this, does this appear to be real to you? Cause a lot of people say a lot of what Liver King does is fake is the watch that he gave me.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  No, that feels right, to be honest. Yeah, it feels right. Solid. Like the sound of a bracelet, you can't replicate that. Like gold, you can't really fake. Well, I'll tell you a funny story. Back in the day, Cartier was so bad at making watches. It's actually scary that people were just like, like they were popular, but they were just so bad. Like their movements were like the worst of the worst. So people did, they made fake Cartiers from real gold. And then just put a better movement in that. It was sold. Like genuinely, that was a fake watch. Like you see a lot of Nautilus's today, like a lot. I'm talking a lot. I'll probably, that's probably, I'll, if I have a WhatsApp chat, I could show you. I'll offer today, like a proper Nautilus for like 20 grand.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  Like you think it's proper Nautilus, but the case and bracelet is all aftermarket. It's funny, like, and it's all real gold, like, I mean, that's not, that's different. But the sound that a link makes, this is Rolex.

• 27:31Graham Stephan?

  Speaking of celebrity watches like this, what celebrity has the best watch collection?

• 27:36Speaker 01

  I love that question. I love that. Well, I would rate a watch collection, sorry. I would rate a watch collection a wee bit different than anyone else, right? I, like I said, I, I, I like to look at watches that money can't buy. You can have a gazillion dollars in your bank, spend 50 million dollars on watches.

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• 28:24Speaker 01

  It can all be AP and I can buy every single one of them if I want to on the market. All I need is money. I don't need effort. I just need money. Right? That's it. Of course I could talk. Kevin Hart, I can talk about Mark Wahlberg. Yeah. Amazing collections, but do they actually think about watches or do they just buy whatever they want? Mark is always the first one with the newest Rolex. Yep. And Kevin is always the first one with the new AP. Is that really like, is that someone that really makes an effort? Thinks about it? That's what I love. True passion. Intention. Yeah. What about John Mayer? John is, is an incredible watch collector. I speak with him regularly about certain pieces.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  He has stuff that the world has never seen, really, really insane stuff. Like double signed, but not by Tiffany. I can't tell you what it is, but we're talking, I can't. But like double signed means a retailer that once upon a time sold a Rolex with their name on it and it's absolutely gigantic. It is very, John is, is, is very read into this. John, this is John's life. I am absolutely gutted that he done that collaboration with AP because that didn't help his status. He didn't have to do that.

• 29:49Speaker 01

  I understand he's passionate, he's, he loves watches and Francois Benoit, which I think is the best leader in the last two decades in the watch industry. I understand it. AP comes, you wanna do a watch together, bring it to the world, you're, that really, like the John Mayer. Connection with watches was so authentic. Like, we called the green Daytona.

• 30:14Jack Selby?

  Yeah, the John Mayer.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  It was authentic. It wasn't a marketing ploy. It wasn't designed by some marketing agency to sell that Daytona. No. He made a video with Ben Clymer about that watch or about his collection. He named that watch and that watch was sold out ever since. Authentic, no marketing ploy. AP, watch with AP, marketing ploy, bomb. It, it, I, I, I think if he looks back to that, I'm pretty sure that, that he would have loved to do that differently, looking back.

• 30:51Jack Selby?

  What do you think he should have done differently?

• 30:52Speaker 01

  To stay away from that, just being advised, don't attach your name to anything. Let it, let it run, let it authent- authentically run. I think that that's the key because like, I mean, we're living in a world where everything is fake. We, we need a wee bit of authenticity in our life.

• 31:06Jack Selby?

  Speaking of authenticity, what is the best watch to get the attention of ladies?

• 31:12Speaker 01

  I love it. I don't think there's any watch or an I style watch. I, it's very funny. I was wearing, um, I was in Texas, Frisco. I love Frisco. Um, um, I wanna buy a house in Frisco in Texas. I think it's brilliant. And I was wearing my white gold day date, Bavee dial, full diamond set bezel. And the ladies did notice that. Oh, that's, yeah, that's, what is that? That's funny. So that notice, but I have never been able to pull a woman with a watch, to be honest.

• 31:41Jack Selby?

  What about just in general?

• 31:42Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, I feel like a Cartier, like a good men's tank would do well. Where it's not too flashy, but you know what? It shows class. It shows some sophistication.

• 31:54Speaker 01

  Not a single woman will know what you wear if you wear a Cartier. It is a bloke that will know. So all you're attracting is blokes.

• 32:01Graham Stephan?

  But you don't think they see Cartier and they're like, oh, I like.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  No, they see your watch. Oh, it's cool. All right, move on. Women absolutely do not care about watches.

• 32:09Jack Selby?

  So you're saying that you've transacted, I mean, in the nine figures, over a hundred million dollars worth of watches. You have never had a girl come up to you, aside from that one experience, to compliment your watch?

• 32:20Speaker 01

  No, it's always a bloke. It's always been a bloke. And today, twice with my watch, twice, the driver dropped us off, oh, cool watch. And at the hotel.

• 32:29Jack Selby?

  So that's really interesting. So women typically are not interested whatsoever in watches?

• 32:33Speaker 01

  Maybe, maybe it's me that I kind of, uh, well. That women are not very much attracted to me. That could be a one as well, but I have never been able to, uh, oh, back in the day, neither with cars, to be honest, so.

• 32:45Graham Stephan?

  So if some dude is dating, you would not recommend buy this watch?

• 32:49Speaker 01

  No, absolutely not. No, no, no.

• 32:52Graham Stephan?

  Would you recommend a car?

• 32:53Speaker 01

  No, I would recommend not to wear an Apple Watch. That's a toy. Come on. Like, I mean, it's good. It's whatever. Don't wear an Apple Watch. Like, wear an often or wear something, whatever you feel like.

• 33:03Graham Stephan?

  So how would a man attract a woman in general?

• 33:07Speaker 01

  I mean, be confident. Like, you don't, like, to be fair, like, if I put a watch on, a specific watch, I, I wear a specific Novellas or an RM or something really, like, specific, silent, luxury, or extreme in your face, it gives me a confidence boost. Like, I'm not gonna lie. You would say him as dressing nice. You wanna dress nice, nice shoes. You wanna feel nice. Wear a nice suit, right? Just that makes, gives you confidence. Same with a watch.

• 33:31Graham Stephan?

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• 35:00Graham Stephan?

  So try Gusto today at gusto.com/iced and get three months free when you run your first payroll. Again, that's three months of free payroll at gusto.com/iced. Once more, that's gusto.com/iced with the link down below in the description. Enjoy, and now let's get back to the podcast. Here's a list of celebrities. Tell us what you think of their watches.

• 35:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, minute repeater, unbelievable, split second chronograph, perpetual calendar. Holy fuck, skeleton ice.

• 35:26Graham Stephan?

  How much is that watch worth?

• 35:29Speaker 01

  People have no idea. A split second chronograph is one of the most complicated movements ever. This is not a watch you buy. This is not like, you need to know what you're doing here, right? This is absolutely nuts. This is one of the most complicated watches that AP has ever produced. It's insane. But he's not wearing that watch in that photo because he's wearing a aftermarket 15407.

• 35:49Graham Stephan?

  Good catch.

• 35:50Speaker 01

  Alright, there you go.

• 35:51Graham Stephan?

  Kevin Hart.

• 35:52Speaker 01

  Kevin Hart, platinum Daytona, unbelievable, important watch, by the way. Advanced Research, Aquanop, interesting story about that. Advanced Research is a specific department, is a special department specialized in innovations within Patek Philippe. And in this case, it's about the usage of silicone in the movement. Well, give you an idea, metal to metal in a movement, scrapes, right? Silicone to silicone doesn't scrape. What happens to a watch when it constantly scrapes? It needs to be serviced quite regularly. When silicone is used, it doesn't really scrape. So it doesn't really need to have, be serviced every time. So it increases the service intervals like years. So that's amazing, fantastic, really important watch.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  And of course, a Troublon, which is class, Royal Oak. Listen, this is one of those, right? I could buy every single one of these pieces tomorrow if I wanted.

• 36:45Graham Stephan?

  So here's another one that I guess money just can buy in terms of a collection. But what do you think? Is this a rounded collection, do you think?

• 36:52Speaker 01

  So I'm seeing the white gold 15407 B.C., which is white gold frosted. I see the 5990 rose, very special watch. So I see- Nautilus, I see A P. I see the same designer, Gerald Jenta designed both, is responsible for both. I see the Royal Oak Offshore. Again, a Daytona, really important. Yellow gold sub manner, class, Day Date. I have that exact one here, all different dial configuration. Meteorite, the Ghibion Meteorite Day Date. Ghibion is a stone and meteorite that landed in Namibia in Africa. And Rolex harvested, has harvested for throughout the years, but you can't, the last 10 years, you can't touch that stone anymore, but. Wow. They've harvested that 20 years ago and they use that now in dial configurations.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  And a really cool yellow gold Daytona. I believe that there is, like the Nautilus was a hype piece. Like, these are all hype watches. Yep. Like Nautilus, Royal Oak. Day Date wasn't a hype watch, but Daytona was for sure, yeah. I think it's a really rounded collection, but again, how much thought, but maybe he doesn't care about it too much. He just likes, he just wants to buy. And that's fine too. He just wants to buy what he likes. Change it up a little bit. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know the bloke on the left, that must have been gifted. Like Hublot doesn't sell any watches like, like this now. That's 100% gifted. They just give him the watch to wear. He gets photos of it, it gets publicity. It's, it's their marketing expense.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then DJ Khalid, well, he's a wee bit bigger here, so this must have been a couple of years ago. Knowing him is probably aftermarket. And, yeah, that, that's quite sad, but he now has a really serious collection for pieces that. Money can't buy. I would love, this is what I do. This is my work. And people have no idea. I actually manage about a billion dollars of watches, collections. That's what I do. That's my work, right? People ask me, what is your work? I manage watch collections. And I always look at the, like, look at watches that money can't buy. So that's what I, that's why, that's why I travel all over the world. So yesterday, we were supposed to film this. I had to jump on a jet.

• 39:04Speaker 01

  To get somewhere to pick up a watch that money cannot buy. Secure that for a client. For a client, yeah. Wow. These celebrities, like you love watches, you love watches to a certain degree. I'm just excessively obsessed. That's what it is. So I look at small details. I look at things like that. These guys have have have other careers. They they they're busy with other stuff and well, DJ Khalid plays golf. I love golf. So like, they don't want to go into that journey, but you see people maturing. Throughout the years, I've seen DJ Khalid maturing massively. Of course, I have absolutely ripped every celebrity apart, including DJ Khalid,

• 39:48Speaker 01

  and they must hate me for the rest of their life.

• 39:50Jack Selby?

  Have you ever been wrong when you've called someone out?

• 39:53Speaker 01

  When I call someone out, my reputation is everything. I'm not wrong. I don't call someone out because it's a coincidence. I call someone out because I know exactly every and I.

• 40:03Jack Selby?

  You manage one billion dollars worth of watches. Explain to me the business behind that.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  Well, it's quite of a new thing in the watch industry, to be honest. Um, like that watches are seen as a luxury asset class. Like it's normal in the art art sector, like if people managing art collections worth gazillions, like car collections even, or watches and cars are actually really close to each other. Funny bit is, I manage everything from acquisition to consolidation or to consolidate collections to sell like proper selling of pieces. Give you an idea, if you have two hundred fifty watches, you you are in a certain value bracket, right? You're you're worth something. Spent a lot of money on two hundred fifty watches.

• 40:51Speaker 01

  You don't want to worry about servicing every single watch, and every single watch is a different service interval. Same as every single car needs to be, well, needs to be the trickle charger, needs to be that that needs to be managed. Usually, when you have a collection of that magnitude, you also have different houses. You live across the world, where where are your watches? You want to keep track of that. So a real important part to understand is is that. You need someone to properly manage that, depending what a collector's goal is, of course, right? Every collector has a different goal. One collector just wants to collect every single watch ever created from this brand. And you have another collector that wants to see a growth of his investments. And he says, I'm spending twenty five to fifty

• 41:36Speaker 01

  million. Twenty, twenty five is, well, that would be the absolute bare minimum, uh, to be honest, but he wants to spend twenty five million on, on a watch collection. It's not that I buy twenty five million worth of watches. No, no, no. Like, I help him, we find them, we work together, we, we tailor that to what he actually wants to achieve. And, and it's all different. And it's funny, I'm gonna say something crazy. One of the biggest watch collectors in the world is a woman. And, uh, yeah, it's insane. I can't tell you who it is.

• 42:11Jack Selby?

  What is she worth?

• 42:13Speaker 01

  I can't tell you.

• 42:14Jack Selby?

  So when you're working with these clients and they're wearing these watches, I imagine some of your clients have watches that are four, five million dollars.

• 42:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:20Jack Selby?

  Have you ever had a client lose a watch?

• 42:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. And my task is then as well to find out.

• 42:26Jack Selby?

  How expensive was the watch they lost?

• 42:29Speaker 01

  Two and a half million.

• 42:30Jack Selby?

  How do they lose two and a half million dollars?

• 42:33Speaker 01

  Well, you see this two and a half million dollars, but when you have just a wristwatch or watch on your wrist, it's just a watch. And the funny bit is like, it can happen very quickly. In Vegas, you hear it all the time. You get drugged, brought to a room and they walk away with the watch. Like, you hear that all the time. Yesterday, I heard that from someone.

• 42:52Jack Selby?

  What, wait, what happened yesterday?

• 42:53Speaker 01

  So someone goes in a casino, goes drinking, is alone, a bloke, whatever, and, and just, I mean, meets a girl, girl, uh, is very interested and brings him up to the room. And he get drugged and his watches are gone. One of which, but I didn't, I don't think it was a watch, it was a wallet was stolen. Like, I mean, it's what happens.

• 43:13Jack Selby?

  And then how do you trace it down?

• 43:15Speaker 01

  A Rolex is, is difficult to trace down, but specific watches, well.

• 43:21Speaker 01

  I can show you a photo of a George Daniels, right? I know that George Daniels only produced, he only, George Daniels is the most important watchmaker in the world, hands down, right? Without George Daniels, the watch world would have looked completely different. He only touched, he only produced like thirty seven watches in his entire life. And he's known as the, he's the man responsible for the coaxial escapement at Omega Bot. And he only touched thirty seven watches himself, right? Twenty four of which were wristwatches. So it's easy to find. It's easy to find because someone that steals that is gonna have to sell it. And that person giggles and sees, oh, that's a lot of money. Yeah, it's a lot of money. So they wanna sell that.

• 44:05Speaker 01

  That will always come on the market. And something that is so niche, so rare, yeah, that's easy to find.

• 44:13Graham Stephan?

  Did you end up finding it?

• 44:14Speaker 01

  That watch, uh, it wasn't a George Daniels, by the way, that got stolen, but yes, I did.

• 44:18Graham Stephan?

  You've, so your client lost a two and a half million dollar watch and you went out and found it?

• 44:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did. How did you find? We don't have possession of that watch yet because it's still in police custody now.

• 44:27Graham Stephan?

  Who loses money in that deal if you find the watch? Like, does the owner just automatically just get it back?

• 44:32Speaker 01

  No.

• 44:32Graham Stephan?

  Or like, what if it gets sold and someone's like, buys it for a hundred grand and then they own the watch, they genuinely didn't know it was stolen and then someone says, oh, that's my watch. Do they just have to get it back and then the person who spent the money is just out of the money?

• 44:44Speaker 01

  I'm not, I'm not a legal expert, so I, I don't know how that goes. In this case, the court case is, or this guy is gonna go to jail and the court case, and whenever that's finished, I think the asset is gonna be released, but at least the asset now, the watch now is in possession of the police safely. So until that is, the court case is going and that could be a year, two years maybe, I don't know. But as soon as that is released, that watch is gonna go back to its original.

• 45:09Graham Stephan?

  So do you just take a percent or so of the billion dollars worth of watches that you manage?

• 45:14Speaker 01

  Well, no, it's not, it doesn't work like that. In acquisition or consolidation, I take fifteen percent on both sides, sell and put some purchase, right? But it's like, um, it sounds, like this, the funny bit is, we talk about this as if it's like something mad, but you know what the funny bit is? This is, this, this has been going on for decades in the world of art.

• 45:35Graham Stephan?

  I don't think it sounds insane, I, yeah.

• 45:36Speaker 01

  It's been going on for decades in the, in the automotive space. Like, for watches, it's maybe a wee bit relatively new, but like, if you have, say you have two hundred watches, three hundred watches, right? Like you need to, you need to think about how you store those. Like those watches need to be serviced and every watch has a different service interval that that needs to be managed. That's also you want to know what the value is today. You also want to know and make sure that that value maintains. If that is your goal with collecting and that is really important. So that is one of the goals. That's what we set out and I mean, it's relatively new in a public space for watches. But like it's been going on for a good few years.

• 46:18Speaker 01

  I would be personally one of probably one of the biggest ones that that manages that.

• 46:23Graham Stephan?

  So if I'm just doing back of the napkin math, you said it's 15% of a billion dollars.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  No, it's not.

• 46:28Graham Stephan?

  So what am I getting wrong?

• 46:29Speaker 01

  That's only acquisition. So.

• 46:31Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. So.

• 46:31Speaker 01

  That's only acquisition in and out. So meaning I my, my margin is well 15% of acquisition and 15% of selling. So I take 15% of both sides from the buyer and the seller. It's not 15% of a billion dollar that I manage. The combined collection is 15 million, but it's very often like I didn't sell those billion dollar watches. I didn't. The majority of well, 90%, 95% of those watches have already been acquired. But the deal is simple. Any watch that's been added or any watch that's being moved from that moment that we sign is 15% in and out.

• 47:07Graham Stephan?

  So if they end up selling at some point in the future, then you would retain 15% of the sale price.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  I like to think that that is really, that's incredible maths. That's be absolutely unbelievable. I've never have to work again, but I don't think it worked like that. How it works in our part is that the collection is going to be hand down, depending what the goal is of that person, but nobody's going to sell 10 million, 20 million. And I'm managing a collection for a couple of years. That doesn't mean that that is the end of the road. Like if I manage a collection for five, six years and the, the guy is finished, is done or wants to move on, I don't have right to 15% of his collection. No, I have right of 15% of every watch that has been bought and sold from the moment he signed up.

• 47:52Graham Stephan?

  So if someone's buying or selling a watch, what's the best way to both get a deal and to get the highest price on a watch? Is it auction? Is it chrono 24? Is it private parties? It is reaching out?

• 48:05Speaker 01

  I would always say if you want a deal, don't ever buy from an auction. Uh, very often I would also say if you wanna have a legit right, auctions are not always the right place to do. Wanna sell a watch? Sell something really special? Auction is the way to go, alright? Private buyers, fantastic, amazing, but like certain watches don't need, you don't need to look for a new owner. You already, I don't have to, if I, if, if one of my clients wants to sell his Bichonique or wants to sell his, his, one of the Crown Collection Rolex's, which nobody knows of, or not many people know of. A Crown Collection is something you know, it also, you know off catalog, but above that, there's also another collection.

• 48:48Speaker 01

  If someone wants to sell that, I don't have to look for a buyer. There's twenty people that wanna buy that because every day passes and there's less and less in the world. Meaning that the demand will always be there for that because it's so extremely collectible and important. So like, it's-

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• 49:35Speaker 01

  It really depends case by case.

• 49:37Graham Stephan?

  Okay, and how do you make sure you're not getting scammed as both a seller or a buyer? Because I've been thinking about selling this watch because I never wear it. But I don't wanna be posting on Instagram like, hey guys-

• 49:47Speaker 01

  No, so you make a YouTube video and you just like say, I'm gonna sell it, fair enough.

• 49:50Graham Stephan?

  But how do I make sure I'm not gonna get scammed? And how does a buyer know they're getting the real watch?

• 49:54Speaker 01

  Well, I don't know about how people can avoid being scammed. That's not really, like, I have, I own a retail

• 50:01Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 50:01Speaker 01

  Uh, business and we sell watches and we buy watches, right? And I think it's really important to buy the seller or buy the person, uh, instead of going to the best offer, right? Give you an idea, if you have a Nautilus, oh shit, they can make twenty grand, yay, or thirty grand. They sell the watch to this dealer, the new owner registers himself as the new owner and bam, the guy will never buy another watch again because he's blacklisted because he sold his Nautilus. Your case will be different, but I mean- I would argue to say just buy the seller, buy the like do business with people that you feel comfortable with. And that's the key. How do you get, how can you avoid to get scammed? Do your research, not about the watch, but about the people you do business with.

• 50:42Graham Stephan?

  So funny, Doug DiMiro said the exact same thing in terms of selling cars. He said, you always have to buy the seller. When the seller has good documentation, the car is immaculate, you speak with them, that is a good sign. So funny, same thing.

• 50:57Speaker 01

  Everything can be, you can find everything on online. Like if you search me, there's a lot of people that hate me, but there's a lot of people that do like me. Oh, that weighs up, but like being so long on top of the tree is difficult without getting or trying, people to try to either do you wrong or whatever it made. I have been, I've been, I've lost fortunes. I've been stolen from, I've been, oh, you've no idea.

• 51:29Speaker 01

  Lost half a million. I'm not going to go into greater detail right now with that, but like I've been victim of that as well. And I am someone that is very thorough, right? And but certain situations are unavoidable. But just buy, if you, if you just want to buy a watch or you just want to sell the watch, just do your research to the people. It's about the people you do business with.

• 51:51Graham Stephan?

  Speaking of cars, a watch really says a lot about you. And I'm curious in terms of watch stereotypes that you've noticed. And so we'll list a few of these and just give us your initial impression. Rolex.

• 52:04Speaker 01

  High school dropout.

• 52:05Graham Stephan?

  Why?

• 52:06Speaker 01

  Cause it's just like, love it. It's like, am I a high school dropout? I always wanted to have a Rolex. Fuck teachers, hate them. I wanted a Rolex.

• 52:14Graham Stephan?

  AP.

• 52:15Speaker 01

  AP.

• 52:17Speaker 01

  Um, first money made, investment banking, first money made, definitely money made, already has a Rolex or just skipped the queue and just went AP because he loves watching YouTube videos and people wearing AP. Uh, loves hip hop, um, for sure loves hip hop, for sure. A hundred percent. Um, yeah, that would be, that would be AP.

• 52:40Graham Stephan?

  Patek.

• 52:42Speaker 01

  Either extremely classy, well dressed, serious, very serious, very, um, thorough, very thoughtful.

• 52:50Graham Stephan?

  Who blow?

• 52:51Speaker 01

  Uh, very, very easy to be influenced and absolutely do not care. Maybe even being a builder, having a construction company.

• 53:02Graham Stephan?

  Richard Mill.

• 53:03Speaker 01

  Very insecure.

• 53:05Graham Stephan?

  Tudor.

• 53:06Speaker 01

  Someone that actually is not really that fussed about what people think of watches. Or someone that is on the beginning of his watch collecting journey.

• 53:18Graham Stephan?

  Grand Seiko.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  I love how you done that. I love that. I have never heard a Rolex owner stating that this is much better than Grand Seiko. But I hear every single time without exception, a Grand Seiko owner saying that this is better than Rolex. I would say a Grand Seiko stereotype for someone that wears Grand Seiko or loves Grand Seiko is someone that is just against everything, just wants to be on the opposite spectrum of everything. Everything but mainstream.

• 53:54Graham Stephan?

  Casio.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  You don't care. You are just wearing a watch because it is bloody functional.

• 54:03Graham Stephan?

  Zenith.

• 54:04Speaker 01

  Love how you got there. Someone that is, actually does this research, thinks about, is very considerate, wants to buy a watch that, that like, he doesn't impulse buy a watch. That watch was never an impulse buy, never. So a guy that is, is genuinely, wants to know more and realize that Zenith actually was really important.

• 54:27Graham Stephan?

  JLC.

• 54:28Speaker 01

  That's a really difficult one. That I like, I do like that. Someone that loves heritage and wants to not wear, just doesn't want to spend the money for a protective sleeve, doesn't see the value in that. But do want to wear something that is historically very important. Um, I, I really like the person that wears Jezza Le Coq. Yeah.

• 54:48Graham Stephan?

  Let's try this now. Just one word, the first word that comes to mind. People who finance watches are

• 54:57Speaker 01

  Stupid.

• 54:59Graham Stephan?

  People who wear watches at the gym are People who are concerned about losing value are

• 55:06Speaker 01

  I'm just, you just, you just rated it up and again, the first word is like, "Don't buy a watch." Oh, and it's one word.

• 55:12Graham Stephan?

  It's one word.

• 55:13Speaker 01

  One word. Ridiculous.

• 55:16Graham Stephan?

  Aftermarket diamonds and watches.

• 55:18Speaker 01

  Insecure.

• 55:18Graham Stephan?

  The Rolex waitlist is

• 55:20Speaker 01

  Fake.

• 55:21Graham Stephan?

  The watch industry is

• 55:23Speaker 01

  A scam.

• 55:24Graham Stephan?

  The most overrated watch brand.

• 55:27Speaker 01

  Hublot.

• 55:28Graham Stephan?

  The biggest waste of money in watches is

• 55:31Speaker 01

  Jacob and Co.

• 55:32Graham Stephan?

  The biggest flex watch.

• 55:34Speaker 01

  Rich Epi.

• 55:35Graham Stephan?

  A guy wearing a hundred thousand dollar watch but broke is

• 55:40Speaker 01

  Gambler?

• 55:42Graham Stephan?

  A guy wearing a hundred dollar watch but is rich is

• 55:47Speaker 01

  My type of guy.

• 55:49Graham Stephan?

  The biggest lie watch people tell themselves.

• 55:52Speaker 01

  That a wa- that you can pull incredible women with watches.

• 55:55Graham Stephan?

  The dumbest watch purchase you see.

• 55:59Speaker 01

  People going into, because people gambling, they give an idea, right? I know it's one word, but it, I can't, there's

• 56:05Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, that's fair.

• 56:06Speaker 01

  It's impossible to make it. People go on holiday and buy a watch tax-free at the airport or a cruise ship. Because they have no idea that that watch can be bought for even half of the price that tax-free is when they just click on the internet.

• 56:22Graham Stephan?

  The cheapest place to buy watches you'd say is on the internet secondhand?

• 56:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, or the UK.

• 56:27Graham Stephan?

  Now, when it comes to buying a watch, how wealthy do you think you should be to buy your first Rolex?

• 56:33Speaker 01

  Well, I'm not the right, great, I'm not the greatest example for that because I'm an absolute degenerate and I've always spent every penny that I had into watches. So I'm not the greatest, best example, but I think you should be able to, I think for you, for, I think to consider it wise to buy a luxury product, I think you need to be able to afford it at least five times. Just to be on the safe side. Like, I mean, that would be, I am not that guy.

• 56:58Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 56:59Speaker 01

  I went all in. I, my first ever Ferrari, I put the deposit down at 25K and it was like 1,200 quid a month. And that was all the money I had. It is what it is.

• 57:11Graham Stephan?

  How often do you see people buying watches that you know they just can't afford it?

• 57:15Speaker 01

  I never do. I never do because I my business also never do it does. We don't really do finance.

• 57:22Graham Stephan?

  But maybe they just scrape together all the money like they have 20 grand of their life and they're just like, let me go and buy this AP.

• 57:28Speaker 01

  I don't think I ever see that. I don't think the business has ever seen that. I don't think so. I don't know about people's like funny bit is with Americans, right? Americans are significantly more open than than people in the UK and Europe, right? I actually love America, like American and did like I love America. That is what it is, right? Like people are so much so so like completely open here. Like I don't see that. And next to that, personally, I don't really sell watches below a certain amount, to be honest. So I don't really know. And those people are not really in that financial situation.

• 58:04Graham Stephan?

  We're gonna name a few price points and you're gonna say the best watch at each price.

• 58:07Speaker 01

  Love that.

• 58:08Graham Stephan?

  $1,000.

• 58:09Speaker 01

  DSOPRX, hands down.

• 58:12Graham Stephan?

  $10,000.

• 58:13Speaker 01

  116610LN, doesn't matter if it's with papers, Submariner, steel, previous gen, unbelievable.

• 58:20Graham Stephan?

  $25,000.

• 58:21Speaker 01

  Why do I go back to Rolex again? That's really annoying. That's really annoying. We shouldn't be doing that, but $25,000, one, the 16618LN, solid gold. Or LB, 1116618LB, the blue dial, solid gold, Submariner. Right? But the older generation, you buy it for $25,000, easy.

• 58:48Graham Stephan?

  $50,000.

• 58:49Speaker 01

  AP, Chronograph, 26331ST.

• 58:55Graham Stephan?

  $100,000.

• 58:57Speaker 01

  A 3700, but take Philippe Nautilus.

• 59:01Graham Stephan?

  $1 million.

• 59:02Speaker 01

  Vintage Daytona, specific 6241, like something Paul Newman, something really special.

• 59:08Graham Stephan?

  So I'm curious when it comes to collector watches like this, because I'm really into the value aspect. What watches do you think are good or safe to go up in value?

• 59:18Speaker 01

  I don't think that any watch that you know about. Will go up in value. Well, that would be worth your time. Ninety nine percent of the watches are not an investment. Like the fact that you would know or you would think that that watch is an investment means it passes so many, so many more people.

• 59:38Graham Stephan?

  Well, so I would argue, I would think the floating dial Zenit Daytonas are undervalued.

• 59:43Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, they're undervalued, but of course Elaine Daytonas are are are are undervalued. That stuff, that's all undervalued. But like in the today's market, like you need to understand that people say, I'm buying this Rolex Daytona, this, this, this new ceramic because it's an investment. Then I laugh, I'm like, what is an investment? Six percent a year? Like, I mean, is that really?

• 1:00:07Graham Stephan?

  See, I'm not talking about new watches, but if you could, out of all the watches out there, spectrum from the nineteen hundreds through today. If there's watches out there that you think, hey, I think this is going to ten X over the next twenty years.

• 1:00:22Speaker 01

  Well, I, for a fact, there's, there's Ricciardi, Ricciardi, Ricciardi. Any watches that he touches is, is absolutely, you, you've probably never heard of that, have you?

• 1:00:30Graham Stephan?

  No.

• 1:00:31Speaker 01

  No, exactly. So that's why, right? And you may have heard this here first. People have talked about it. But that's because I'm an industry insider. He only produces a handful of watches a year. Luca Soprano, you've never heard of that.

• 1:00:45Graham Stephan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:00:47Speaker 01

  Eighty K Swiss Franc, that's where you buy his watch at. But I'm telling you, that's the future. Aurelia, young guy, worked at H. Moser. Have you heard of H. Moser?

• 1:00:55Graham Stephan?

  Yes.

• 1:00:56Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:00:57Graham Stephan?

  That one I got.

• 1:00:57Speaker 01

  Young guy, right? Just a, just, just became a father of his, his second child. Like we're talking real people that make real watches. Like this is the big difference what you don't get, right? The luxury aspect of the watch industry is a, is, as far as you know, is a brand. But as far as I know, it's the people behind it that make it. You cannot, like, you don't know any Rolex.

• 1:01:23Graham Stephan?

  But how do we know, how do we know which ones are going to be the future FPJorn?

• 1:01:28Speaker 01

  Well, it's not that hard. Ricciardi is gonna surpass FPJorn any day of the week. Simon Brett is gonna surpass FPJorn any day of the week. Like those are independent watch brands, independent watchmakers, sorry, correction. There's a difference between a watch brand and a watchmaker. That's a gigantic difference, right? I thought this was the most funniest thing in the world. You had the British watchmakers days. Like that was like this big event and I'm like, there was one watchmaker and the rest were watch brands. How the hell can you call that the British watchmaker days? I think that's the biggest fraud ever. Like a watch brand and a watchmaker is a difference. Roger Smith was the only watchmaker that was on the British watchmaking days. That was the only one. The rest were just watch brands that with bracelets from China, movements from there.

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  They just assemble a watch, that's not a watchmaker. If you think you're a watchmaker by just assembling watches, you're an embarrassment, to be frank. Well, you do not know if you buy a Géger Le Cult, who made your watch. So it's a mass product, but Richemont or but Géger Le Cult is owned by Richemont, it's a conglomerate. Their business model is simple. Turn as many watches because that will give us profit. Aurelia, young guy, you actually make a direct impact on his life. He can only produce a handful of watches a year. Like that's a watch that money can't buy because it's time you need. Same with Luca, same with Richepe. Richepe makes.

• 1:02:56Speaker 01

  Richepe is the new F1 and above that. And people have no idea.

• 1:03:01Graham Stephan?

  How do you get one?

• 1:03:02Speaker 01

  Impossible. That's a watch that money can't buy. So.

• 1:03:06Graham Stephan?

  Is it, how do I get on the waitlist?

• 1:03:08Speaker 01

  Well, you need to go to Switzerland a lot of times and be very nice to Richepe and.

• 1:03:13Graham Stephan?

  Have to take him out to dinners, invited to family outings.

• 1:03:16Speaker 01

  You're one of the thousands of people, right? Simon Redd, exactly the same.

• 1:03:21Graham Stephan?

  He's not gonna accept your low mall offer. If I walk in, is he gonna be on his phone?

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  Like the.

• 1:03:25Graham Stephan?

  Best I could do, could I get 50% off?

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  I.

• 1:03:28Graham Stephan?

  Jacob and go offer me 50%.

• 1:03:29Speaker 01

  Exactly, give me 50% off. Like the thing is, right? The reason why these independent watchmakers are such a success. It's because the mainstream watch brands have been telling fake and bull stories. To sell their product.

• 1:03:43Graham Stephan?

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• 1:05:01Graham Stephan?

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• 1:06:31Jack Selby?

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• 1:06:34Speaker 01

  The reason why these independent watchmakers are such a success, it's because the mainstream watch brands have been telling fake and bull stories to sell their product. IWC, I would like, mate, what do you call the island boys with more authenticity than IWC ever had? IWC is complete lost. Michael Jackson at his prime had a, had more, had less of an identity crisis than IWC has today. It's mad, right? Same with other, several other brands. Panerai has no idea what the hell is going on. Like, those are not, those are not people that care about watches. The thing is, like their marketing teams, well, if you have a marketing director of one brand, you're only going to be a marketing director of that brand for like two years, then you swap to another brand.

• 1:07:16Graham Stephan?

  But you say all this stuff. Do you worry about lawsuits and getting sued? Where you just said that about Panerai and Panerai is like, well, wait a second. We do care about our watch. We do, we're not just a marketing hub and then like slapping you with a lawsuit or like a cease and desist. Like you damaged Jacob and Co., let's just say, because he's like, that's patently false that we, you know, discount our watches 50. I don't know, I'm just saying.

• 1:07:40Speaker 01

  I hear what you're saying, but I mean, there's freedom of speech. No, I've not been sued because why the fuck would I? I'm telling the truth. Prove me otherwise. If I lie. If I give you misinformation, sue me, show me. But everything I tell you, everything I say is the truth. So if I make a statement and it's absolute the truth. Jacob Picco doesn't make a watch, it's Concepto that makes that. Simple as, that's the truth. So they have to now prove to me that, that, that, well, or I need to prove that, that, that they do that. Well, that's very easy. Like, I'm not a, like, it's not that I am looking for enemies all day, every day. I just cut through the crap. I just want, this industry is my life, right? This is my life.

• 1:08:25Speaker 01

  This is not a money thing. I don't care about money, right? I care about support. I care about how my son will see me whenever he is old enough. I stand for something. And I think that the watch industry is lost in every way, shape or form. It's never been at a worse place than it is today. And it's sad, but it's not that people don't buy watches because they do. But it's the way the watch brands communicate. And this is why the independent watch space is so vitally important. And there's a watch, a watchmaker, a real guy, a genuine person that works his ass off in design. Was his biggest ambition.

• 1:09:08Speaker 01

  And I'm able to spend three thousand pounds, buy his watch. I not only make his, like, his day or his life or whatever. Like, I mean, I'm actually making a direct impact. I'd rather see that than throw in a, buy another Pana guy and whatever.

• 1:09:27Jack Selby?

  Would you wear only Hublows for one year for a million dollars?

• 1:09:32Speaker 01

  No, for a million dollars, no. No, no chance.

• 1:09:35Jack Selby?

  How much would you have to be paid to only wear Hublows?

• 1:09:38Speaker 01

  Twenty-five million at least.

• 1:09:39Jack Selby?

  Twenty-five million dollars.

• 1:09:40Speaker 01

  So Hublot, to be honest, mate, Hublot, they're, they're. I like this whole thing was all fun and games, eh, Hublot, this and that, right? But from the bottom of my heart, I am really embarrassed for people that that have bought Hublot. And I'm I'm just gonna give you. Take the glasses. Yeah, because it actually pisses me off, right? Look what you did, Jack. Right, it actually royally pisses me off on another level, right? I, Hublot wanted to make a video, right, with me, right? And I'm like, fine, well, let's do that. But I want you to make a donation to a charity, which is important to me, which is to make sure that children during Christmas have a Christmas present, because a lot of people in Nor- a lot of kids in Northern Ireland didn't have that, right?

• 1:10:24Speaker 01

  Instead of paying all those influencers and all those ambassadors, I want you to do one thing, I'll do, I'll make a video with you, I'll let you talk and we'll have an open, honest and real conversation. And you can prove me wrong, I would love that. I want you to do this, instead of you by paying money to all those influencers, I want you to do one thing for me, one thing, a hundred thousand pounds sterling, and I matched that, right? A hundred thousand pounds sterling to a charity that is close to my heart. And they said, well, I don't care, I'd rather give two million dollars to Fifty Cent for a a launch of a watch to basically an influencer party, I'd rather spend two million dollars

• 1:11:07Speaker 01

  to that than actually making an impact for the next generation. It's an embarrassment of the highest degree. I think that leadership at Hublot is beyond embarrassing. And LVMH needs to have a really good look at themselves, because this is where Zenith went in, this is exactly the same group, Zenith is nearly bankrupt or they're going, they're for sale anyway, the brand, like, they have, same as, um, I obviously a big identity crisis, but we'll, we'll not go into detail, but I think it's really embarrassing and I'm dead serious, like. A hundred thousand pounds for a charity or two million dollars for fifty cents to perform for some influencers?

• 1:11:45Graham Stephan?

  Did they flat out say?

• 1:11:46Speaker 01

  No, they literally said flat out, no. The CEO in the comments on Instagram said, I don't know. No. A couple of weeks later, big event with fifty cents for all their influencers. Honestly, everyone that wears a Hublot, I would love to have them have that feeling. Like, this is what you're doing. Like, I was genuinely wanting to be an open and make an impact together, right? I was open. I'll listen. Well, listen. Well, I'll listen to you. I'll not be critical. I'll be straight. Let's have an open conversation and make an impact for the next generation of watch people.

• 1:12:22Graham Stephan?

  What is the best watch that Hublot makes?

• 1:12:25Speaker 01

  Never. None. I am done. I will never say.

• 1:12:27Graham Stephan?

  You're trying to get to me.

• 1:12:29Jack Selby?

  There's not a single one that you think is like a half decent watch?

• 1:12:33Graham Stephan?

  I think, what is it? The Big Bang? Is it the Big Bang one?

• 1:12:35Speaker 01

  There's one movement which I find funny, which Hublot also didn't make, was introduced in 2018. It was done together with Dustin Johnson. I think Marco created that. It's a mechanical golf counter, but the thing is super fragile, right? It's a mechanical golf counter. I love that idea of that concept. The guy that produces that actually left Hublot and then started his own brand called Criss Cross Studios, which is doing cool stuff, right? Like, keep in mind, these are just brands. These are fronts. There's actually real people that have ambitions sometimes behind it and start their own watch brand, which is funny, is like.

• 1:13:13Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. So it doesn't sound like you're very happy with what's going on with the current state of the watch market in general. Seems like there's a lot of hype, a lot of just mass-produced pieces, and most people are completely disillusioned that the watch that they're getting is actually rare, when in reality, it's they make hundreds of thousands of them.

• 1:13:32Speaker 01

  Well, it's not the state of the watch industry that I'm worried about. It's the fact that, like, I mean, maybe that's me getting older, right? Maybe that's me. You remember when your dad or your parents once said back in the day the music was better? Like, maybe it's one of those. I don't know. Maybe it is. But what I see today is just, it worries me, mate. Genuinely, it does. I care about this industry and I care about these people. But on the other hand, the mismanagement of these bigger brands has created a completely different market, which I absolutely love. It's the independent space. We've seen that with MVNF, MVNF, like, fucking Max Buser worked for, uh, Jezza LaCold, um, he worked, um.

• 1:14:16Speaker 01

  I mean, they all go independent, create something and actually make an impact. Like, and that's amazing. Like, the mismanagement creates a completely different economy on its own.

• 1:14:25Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  But I want people to just, they're really, really, like, I would celebrate anyone that wants to learn more about watches, right? Because mechanical timekeeping devices tracking something that we haven't defined yet. Brian Cox, time is not a proven, uh, concept. We have all different calendars. They have a different calendar in China than we have here. So time is not a proven concept. We're tracking something that is not a proven concept. But mechanical engineering of a watch is just, like, it's insane. It's actually incredible. Like, I urge every single person to dive deep and learn some, learn about that.

• 1:15:05Speaker 01

  And the historic importance of how important, like, we wouldn't be able to fly today, like, be on a boat, navigate. Like, that's so important. And I love every bit of that. And then I hope people then, I hope that people then really do their research when they buy a watch. And ideally, in an ideal world, stay away from mainstream. Just go and support watchmakers that actually really care, instead of the marketing that's being served.

• 1:15:31Jack Selby?

  People have the GOAT debate in, like, the NBA. They say it's like Michael Jordan, LeBron James. They have it in soccer with, like, Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo. Who is or what is the GOAT watchmaker?

• 1:15:45Speaker 01

  They're both British, right? And they're both reside, well, one is dead, George Daniels, is the GOAT, is the absolute GOAT. He wasn't even a watchmaker. He was, he was a mechanic. Watchmaking was not to be improved. It was impossible to be improved, and he improved it. Last person to ever improve the watch, watch industry, by the way. Watch, mechanical, the mechanical aspect of watch. Last person and his apprentice Roger Smith. Those two, funny enough, what I would say are the goat. One is not with us anymore. The other one is working exactly as George Daniels said it out to be.

• 1:16:24Jack Selby?

  And what is the goat watch brand?

• 1:16:28Speaker 01

  Well, the most important one in the world, which is one third of the entire Swiss watch industry, Rolex, that's hands down. And although the luxury aspect is not the product, it's the journey, making you feel like that is, that's the actual product, right? Like you don't know, but the journey is the actual product. Being able to be considered, oh, it's a privilege to be considered. And then being able to buy one, oh, they allow me to buy one. That feeling, what you get from that? That's the actual product, not the actual watch. There's not a watch brand in the world that has ever been able to do that. Or not, I would say Hermes would be in a different space, but there's not a watch brand in the world that can do that.

• 1:17:10Jack Selby?

  How does Rolex operate as a nonprofit?

• 1:17:13Speaker 01

  They do not operate as a nonprofit. They are a profitable organization, but they're owned by the Hans Willstorf Foundation. So Rolex and Tudor are both profitable organizations. Right? But they're owned by a foundation. It's clever. It's, it's, it's just how to avoid paying. It's, yeah, it's tax.

• 1:17:35Jack Selby?

  We should be a nonprofit. We really should.

• 1:17:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, because you're adding value, exactly.

• 1:17:39Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:40Speaker 01

  Be clever. You can't blame that. You can't, like, I mean, the

• 1:17:44Jack Selby?

  Don't hate the player.

• 1:17:46Speaker 01

  The largest bank wire in the world is once a year, right? I think it goes from, it's Google. I think it goes from like the Bermuda, one of these islands, uh, or from Ireland or something like that, like to the Bermuda, like it's the biggest bank wire ever. It's just, it's once a year. It's just tax. It's just like air licensing. It's amazing how you need to be creative and Rolex is like very creative in that.

• 1:18:09Jack Selby?

  Because our average viewer demographic is between 18 and 35. Let's say for the average man under 40 years old, what would the perfect collection look like?

• 1:18:19Speaker 01

  How many watches and what's the bunny?

• 1:18:20Jack Selby?

  Let's just say, I mean, it's no money, money aside. Amount of watches aside, just what would you say they should consider when curating their collection?

• 1:18:28Speaker 01

  Rolex Submariner as a sports watch, for sure, hands down. Or even a Rolex GMT. I think a Rolex GMT is the most functional movement or functional watch out there. And I use that every day. Right? For me, if I travel, Rolex GMT.

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• 1:19:12Speaker 01

  I would say Submariner is just more because it's iconic. But like, there are days in my life that I'm not on there, not at like a thousand feet underwater, like, I mean. A Rolex GMT is properly functional because you can read multiple time zones. I think a chronograph is vital. Omega Speedmaster, it's an incredible story with that because that watch was like, it saved lives, that watch. Like, and it wasn't even meant to go to space, but it saved lives. The famous 14 seconds Apollo 11. Or was it Apollo 12? Apollo 11.

• 1:19:43Speaker 01

  I think that's really important. I think dress, right? And if there's no budget and if I can do whatever the hell I want, 6119, I think is one of the most cleanest styles. Reason why I said 611 is exactly the same case, but I

• 1:19:55Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:56Speaker 01

  It's exactly the same case.

• 1:19:58Jack Selby?

  To prescribe for an average viewer out there, because I would say our average viewer would probably not be, you know, multiple Rolexes or multiple.

• 1:20:07Speaker 01

  Total, yeah, that's why I was like budget.

• 1:20:09Jack Selby?

  So I, I just a practical, a practical, you know, maybe under, under $15,000.

• 1:20:14Speaker 01

  Under $15,000 for watches. I think a Speedmaster has to be in that collection. A GMT watch with in this case, the Tudor Black Bay Pro would be an incredible watch because it's very, it's very affordable. It's well, affordable is a relative term, but it's, it's very accessible. And you have a GMT function and it has the incredible heritage Speedmaster like I mentioned because it's so important and it's really, really cool. And as a dress watch, I would say, this is actually modern, I would say that, a pre-owned Chopin, because Chopin is one of the only big watch brands that makes everything themselves, every, everything themselves, like every aspect of the watch is made by them. And I love that. And you can

• 1:20:57Speaker 01

  pick them up for like 60% of the retail price. You can buy an unbelievable Chopin, like five grand, six grand. I love that. I love that, that as a dress watch.

• 1:21:07Graham Stephan?

  Does it matter if you buy a watch with box and papers?

• 1:21:10Speaker 01

  The modern stuff, uh, no, I don't, I don't care. Vintage stuff, I don't care. It's not the watch that matters. Modern stuff, like, I can't wear a box or a papers. But like, if it's watches bought with a single purpose as an investment, like vintage pieces, well, amazing. Make sure, uh, does, it does help. But papers do not certify or verify that a watch is legit, yes or no? Absolutely not. People say, oh, yeah, papers. Yeah, this watch is real because it has papers. Well, um, if you can replicate a watch, do you not think you can replicate a, a card? Maybe?

• 1:21:47Graham Stephan?

  I want you to react to this clip. What would you say is your worst investment of all time?

• 1:21:51Speaker 01

  I hate this watch.

• 1:21:52Graham Stephan?

  What do you not like about?

• 1:21:53Speaker 01

  Because it was a terrible investment.

• 1:21:54Graham Stephan?

  Could I see it?

• 1:21:55Speaker 01

  It represents-

• 1:21:55Graham Stephan?

  Throw it to this house, dude. How much is that watch, Graham?

• 1:21:58Speaker 01

  It's gotta be 400, 500. But I owned another one, a black one, that was a million dollar watch and it was stolen from me.

• 1:22:06Graham Stephan?

  Do you have insurance on that?

• 1:22:06Speaker 01

  Off my arm. No, I didn't have insurance. Well, the black one that is showed on the photo or in the video, that, that has never been a million dollars. But that aside, um, I get it. I get it. Richard Mill has lost a little amount, like it's losing a lot of value. I get it. And again, like I said, Richard Mill blew up in such a short amount of time that it was like, like at some point, it's ignorant to think that this will always go that way. I get it. I get it. However, it is still a Richard Mill. Still a Risha Mill and they have changed the industry a wee bit like that was the first and only real hyper watch if you compare it with the automotive industry like special.

• 1:22:47Graham Stephan?

  Here's one more clip I want to show you. Walk in rocking this watch and it's massive. Yep. Alex is supposed to guess how much you bought that for. Oh, okay, Alex.

• 1:22:55Speaker 05

  My guess is that that watch costs approximately seventeen thousand five hundred dollars.

• 1:23:01Graham Stephan?

  Alex.

• 1:23:02Speaker 06

  I'm guessing eighty-five.

• 1:23:03Graham Stephan?

  My guess is thirty-five because you got a deal and you could buy it at MSRP.

• 1:23:07Speaker 06

  I go to this place called Happy Jeweler and he does a lot of athletes and stuff like that out in California and he just so happened to get this watch in stock and I had texted him for months. I was like, if you ever see this exact watch, let me know. I love black and blue. And he says, I got it in stock and he's like, I'm actually going to give it to you below cost of what I have it at. He's like, just because I know you're going to make content, it's going to help out and I want to build a relationship with you, you're going to refer me a bunch of clients, which I have, you know, now I'm talking about it on this podcast, right? So I ended up getting it from him for like forty-two thousand and I was looking at it on eBay the other day and I think it was like worth sixty to seventy now.

• 1:23:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:42Graham Stephan?

  You saw the watch?

• 1:23:43Speaker 01

  If it was any other jeweler, any other jeweler other than Happy Jeweler's, I would say it's bull. But Happy Jeweler's, they're genuinely like that. They're unbelievable guys. Like if it was anyone else, I'd say below cost, off, never. Happy Jeweler's, I think are hands down in the US, the best.

• 1:24:05Graham Stephan?

  Really?

• 1:24:05Speaker 01

  I think they're amazing and the brothers, hard workers. I have never seen a shop like it. The vibe is incredible and if you're ever in California, I would highly recommend

• 1:24:14Graham Stephan?

  You know what's so funny? That clip got millions of views and when you think they discounted his watch across all the people who's that's free marketing for them. They probably, I'm curious what their ROI was on that clip.

• 1:24:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, there's maybe a clip coming out of that, but the brothers genuinely, they're

• 1:24:34Speaker 01

  Nicest people you'll ever meet. Like, if there's, if it was any other jeweler, any other watch dealer, I would say, yeah. Good story, bro. Good luck. You're very.

• 1:24:45Graham Stephan?

  That's really good to know. That makes me feel good, man. It gives me hope that there's, you know.

• 1:24:50Jack Selby?

  People that Graham can get really cheap stuff.

• 1:24:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Because he wants to be in the front row for a penny. You see what I mean? That's you, by the way.

• 1:24:58Graham Stephan?

  Well, you were talking about how scammy the watch industry is.

• 1:25:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:01Graham Stephan?

  And so going from happy jewelers, we got two thumbs up here.

• 1:25:04Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:25:04Graham Stephan?

  What are some of the tricks that you see throughout the watch industry?

• 1:25:07Speaker 01

  I would actually.

• 1:25:08Graham Stephan?

  You want to call out?

• 1:25:08Speaker 01

  I would actually argue to say the gray market is the, is the real market. That's the honest market. Like, retail is a scam, right? It's a scam. Retail prices going up out of a zoo. It is insane. Oh, yeah. Cost of this and that, and that. Nate, $200,000 for a Nautilus. Are you out of your mind? This is out of the box retail. Like, I mean, the new Nautilus, what they've introduced, to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the Nautilus. How much? I'm like, are you out of your mind? It's a normal white gold time only watch, not even a date, $100,000 retail. That's a scam. The real value of a product is actually defined at the gray market. And I would argue to say that that is also the most honest variation, honest version of that.

• 1:25:50Graham Stephan?

  But now, I watch these YouTube channels where the guy, he constantly talks about the tricks that people pull when they sell a watch. Like, they might ship him a watch, he looks at it and says, this is an aftermarket dial. Or this watch was somehow swapped to be this watch. And it's advertised as, how often do you see that?

• 1:26:07Speaker 01

  I see that, but in our business, not very much, because I'm luckily in the UK and the UK people actually take accountability. But in the US, it's, it's, it's a big scam, mate. Like, if you buy a watch, if you want trouble and you want to be in the front row seat for a penny, you go to New York. You will get over it, and I promise you that, I'll put money on it.

• 1:26:28Speaker 01

  I put money on it. And it's, it's actually an embarrassment. I mean.

• 1:26:34Speaker 01

  I mean countless times. I mean genuinely, it happens more than it doesn't.

• 1:26:39Graham Stephan?

  Hmm.

• 1:26:40Speaker 01

  So it's, it is actually sad. But now comes the point, right?

• 1:26:45Graham Stephan?

  Have you ever bought a stolen watch?

• 1:26:48Speaker 01

  No, but I bought a watch that then was later registered stolen. Like, that's funny. Then a insurance trick. That's hilarious.

• 1:26:54Graham Stephan?

  What's the trick?

• 1:26:55Speaker 01

  Well, you sell, you buy a watch, you sell the thing, you call your insurance company. I lost my watch. Here's the serial number. I have the watch and I done. He gets his money paid out. I paid him, so he got paid twice. And I'm sitting there, I wanna sell this watch and it was registered stolen. That's bad.

• 1:27:13Graham Stephan?

  It seems like that's the easiest thing to get caught in because you have a, a.

• 1:27:18Speaker 01

  People don't think, mate. People are sometimes not using their own brains. It's hilarious. Do you not think that that will backfire?

• 1:27:25Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:26Speaker 01

  Like, it's hilarious. And this is also what you see in New York. New York is quite.

• 1:27:29Graham Stephan?

  So how often do you see fake watches?

• 1:27:32Speaker 01

  Not very often. You know what, right? When I started with YouTube and TikTok and stuff, right? It was all over the thing, all over, right? I remember the unicorn family. I don't know if you've ever seen like the, that was mad, mate. I don't know if they still exist, but. Every other clip about watches, people flexing fake watches. Like, I don't see that anymore on socials.

• 1:27:53Graham Stephan?

  Are the fakes just getting better?

• 1:27:54Speaker 01

  No. It's people are just more cautious with like sharing fake stuff. Like, what, what's.

• 1:28:00Graham Stephan?

  Probably a byproduct of you.

• 1:28:02Speaker 01

  Like, I would, I wouldn't, I would love to think, I would love that, but like, maybe that's a wee bit, my ego's maybe a wee bit too big, but that could potentially be. But I would have had an impact, but like fake watch busters and baller busters.

• 1:28:15Graham Stephan?

  Baller busters, yeah.

• 1:28:15Speaker 01

  I see it less and less. And I'm like, actually, that's a good thing.

• 1:28:19Graham Stephan?

  But do you think maybe people just get desensitized to it? Like, there's so many people wear fake watches that at this point it just stops like eh.

• 1:28:25Speaker 01

  I don't see online people flexing fake watches, not in. I do see sometimes. But not in the rate that I've ever seen.

• 1:28:34Graham Stephan?

  What's the worst you've ever called someone out for wearing a fake watch?

• 1:28:37Speaker 01

  Rick Ross, Rick Ross, that was embarrassing.

• 1:28:39Graham Stephan?

  But he could afford the real one. So why would it, why would it matter if he's wearing a fake one?

• 1:28:45Speaker 01

  Well, can he?

• 1:28:45Graham Stephan?

  Right? Doesn't he? I thought he has like a twenty million dollar house in Florida.

• 1:28:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, but like you can finance that to the hill. You can't finance a watch of that magnitude. Like, to give you an idea, right? That watch is part of a set of ten watches. That set was like twelve or fourteen million dollars. You couldn't get that watch individually. That's how I knew. You couldn't get that watch individually.

• 1:29:05Graham Stephan?

  Could it be aftermarket?

• 1:29:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was aftermarket. It was fully custom.

• 1:29:08Graham Stephan?

  Okay.

• 1:29:08Speaker 01

  Right? It was fully custom. And let me explain to you. You have a watch, right?

• 1:29:15Speaker 01

  And it says on the dial, automated RPK, right? The bracelet is however, not made by automated RPK. The case is not made by automated RPK. The dial is not made by automated RPK. Crown is not made by automated RPK, but oh, it has an AP movement.

• 1:29:34Speaker 01

  Is that watch real? Or is that watch fake?

• 1:29:38Graham Stephan?

  I'd call it a Frankenstein.

• 1:29:40Speaker 01

  Why?

• 1:29:41Graham Stephan?

  Because the movement itself is AP. Combined with other pieces, I'd just call it a Frankenstein watch. I wouldn't say it's fake.

• 1:29:48Speaker 01

  Frankenstein watch needs a balance of fifty fifty, not ninety ten. Like, to give you an idea, right? And there's another example.

• 1:29:58Speaker 01

  If I buy a BMW five series and I make it look like, with a body kit, like an M5. Do I have a fake M5? Well, that's the question, right?

• 1:30:11Graham Stephan?

  I would say, but here's the thing. I would say if it has an M5 engine.

• 1:30:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it doesn't. Now comes another point, right? A custom, there's a big difference between a watch that's custom and a watch that is, I would consider fake, right? That green watch that Rick Ross had was directly made to replicate this B-shuneek. That was at that moment in the B-shuneek, but directly to replicate that watch, a direct, one-on-one. A watch that's custom, that is just a state, is not. Replicating nothing because that watch that they just never existed like that in the first place. So that's not to replicate something. Like that green watch that that Rick Ross had was a direct replica of the actual watch. That AP made at that time one off.

• 1:31:01Graham Stephan?

  Do you think he knew it was fake?

• 1:31:03Speaker 01

  I think he, no, I don't think, but I I looking at the communication at that moment in time, hundred percent. But he was, his ego was too big.

• 1:31:13Graham Stephan?

  What do you think about people who wear fake watches? And do you think it's wrong to wear a fake watch?

• 1:31:18Speaker 01

  I think it's wrong in every way, shape or form. I think if you're wearing a fake, listen, I've been on this journey when I was sixteen. I wore fake watch because I couldn't afford it. I was so insecure and I wanted to feel, I wanted to be part of something. Like I wanted to be considered cool. Well, let me tell you, wearing a fake watch doesn't make you cool, right? Genuinely, it doesn't. I had been part of that. I get it. I understand it. But if you're, if you're a bloody adult, if you're thirty five years old and you're wearing a fake watch, like, I mean.

• 1:31:46Graham Stephan?

  But what if you genuinely like the watch, but you're like, eh, it might not be worth the retail price. So I'm gonna buy a fake one.

• 1:31:52Speaker 01

  Oh, why would you, why would you, why would you support criminal activities like, like, like, like, like copyright infringements? Why would you do that? Like, a lot of people don't understand that the funds are very often used. Um, well, it goes hand in hand with drug trade, simple as, let me be very clear, cartels and drug trades. In the environment that some of those watches are being produced, it's shocking. Like, I have been, well, I've been in China. I've seen some stuff that I wish I never saw, but it's quite, it's quite poor, like.

• 1:32:27Graham Stephan?

  So what's your defense of fake watches?

• 1:32:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, like, why, why would you? I buy a watch for myself.

• 1:32:33Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:33Speaker 01

  Right? And can you imagine wearing a fake watch that's fake? And I'm like, I'm a fa, I'm fake. I'm faking, I'm fake. That's all I am. That's all it says.

• 1:32:44Graham Stephan?

  I'm completely indifferent to it. I think it's one thing if you're trying to do it to impress somebody, but I think if you genuinely like the watch.

• 1:32:54Graham Stephan?

  And it's the same thing and you just save the money. I'm pretty indifferent to it.

• 1:33:00Speaker 01

  Well, everyone has his own opinion, mate. I absolutely respect your opinion, but like, I'm not gonna lie, but like, would you drive in a fake car? Would you do?

• 1:33:13Graham Stephan?

  I, I, I wanted.

• 1:33:13Speaker 01

  Would you wear fake clothes?

• 1:33:14Graham Stephan?

  I wanted a, uh.

• 1:33:15Speaker 01

  Would you like?

• 1:33:16Graham Stephan?

  I wanted a replica Countach.

• 1:33:18Speaker 01

  I want a real Countach, and that is fucking motivating me to work harder. It is a motivation.

• 1:33:22Graham Stephan?

  I would feel so guilty driving the Countach, the real one, because I'd be worried about putting miles on it or someone dinging it. But if you have the replica Countach, I feel like I wouldn't care. I could freely enjoy it. I don't have to worry about like, oh, I didn't put miles on my car.

• 1:33:38Speaker 01

  I make money working. I don't make money with collecting cars and doing that. I wanna buy a car because I wanna drive that bloody thing.

• 1:33:49Graham Stephan?

  See, here's, but.

• 1:33:50Speaker 01

  That's why I make money with other things.

• 1:33:52Graham Stephan?

  You've never heard of the dollar to fun ratio. I look at how much fun could I have for this dollar? And if I could get 90% of the fun for 50% of the price, then I do that because.

• 1:34:03Speaker 01

  And then you fuck, and then he's like fucking.

• 1:34:05Graham Stephan?

  No, because I still get 90% of the fun.

• 1:34:07Speaker 01

  Can you imagine sitting on a chair there, right? Sitting chilling, right? You don't have kids yet, so, but sitting there, you have kids or maybe you don't have, whatever. Sitting there chilling and you have fucking a month of life and like, I wish I drove that Countach more, I would, but.

• 1:34:20Graham Stephan?

  But you could say the same thing about anything. Let's say you got to dinner and you could have this incredible experience. It's awesome, but it's a thousand dollars a price.

• 1:34:27Speaker 01

  Why would you?

• 1:34:28Graham Stephan?

  Or you could have 90% of the same experience for a hundred dollars. It's not gonna be as crazy, but it's one tenth the price.

• 1:34:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's different. Like buying a Countach, working your ass off and being able to afford it and then not fucking driving it.

• 1:34:41Graham Stephan?

  But, but you could still do all of those things, be able to afford it, but be like, well, the dollar to fun ratio suggests that I could do this thing instead. You still get the same enjoyment of being able to buy the car, but.

• 1:34:51Speaker 01

  That's more you thing because the money is a really important subject in your life. I don't care. I don't. I don't care. I've never had money, didn't care. Now I have money, I still don't care. Money is not my motivation. I never, like, of course, I am thinking about, okay, I can't do that, I can't do this, I can't. But, like, money is there to do good, meaning if I can buy that watch from a business that, or a watchmaker, and it will actually have an impact on our business, I can actually contribute. I'd rather fuck that because that makes an impact and I can make a difference and I can make a change. I don't care about money. I don't. Never did, I never will. It's never been a motivation.

• 1:35:33Speaker 01

  And I hear what you're saying. Yeah, it is, and fifty percent, yeah. Well, I donate money to charities about dogs. I fund in Northern Ireland, the Dog House Sanctuary, for years I've donated that. Like, do I fuck care? No, yeah, if I didn't do that, I had more and I could have bought another car. Yeah, fantastic. Or just work more efficient, make more money.

• 1:35:57Speaker 01

  Simple. Money needs to, for me, and this is the great thing, we're opposites. That's the great thing about watches, we have different tastes. Like, if you can afford a Countach, it's a Countach, bad example, because the fucking is shit to drive. That's another thing. But if it's like something else, like a three five five, like Ferrari, that, like, I recently bought a three five five, by the way.

• 1:36:21Graham Stephan?

  Great car.

• 1:36:22Speaker 01

  Unbelievable. Sorry for my language, but now we're talking, right? So absolutely unbelievable car, right? And you could buy that for like a hundred fifty thousand dollars, or you buy like an improved variation of that, Evoluto, right? Recently acquired an Evoluto. It's coming in a couple of months, right? Or, I don't know, is it a year? It's out a wee bit, right? It's like the perfect version of that car, and it's like eight hundred thousand dollars, right? Absolutely insane car. But whenever I bought my first Ferrari, it was the absolute bollocks. Then I bought another supercar and another supercar, and I'm super grateful that I can do that, right? Because I never had money in my pocket, I never realized, I never thought it would be even a possibility, but the fact I can do that, super grateful.

• 1:37:04Speaker 01

  But then you are surrounding yourself and you're in circles and then you realize it's I'm in Dubai and there's another A12 and there's another A12 and there's an A18. I'm one of the... They're building 14,000 cars Ferrari. There's nothing unique about that, same as having a Rolex. Any bloke I will see in two miles today, like, there will be people that have a Rolex. Like, I wanna buy a car because it... I just wanna drive it, I wanna enjoy it. And for example, the Evoluto, insane car, right? There's only 55 of them, right? It's only 55 of them. Like, that's unique, I won't see another one. Do I not drive it because there's only 55 of them? I mean, maybe it loses value?

• 1:37:49Speaker 01

  I don't care, I buy that car because I wanna drive it. Like, not because I wanna keep it in a garage, sitting, doing nothing. It doesn't work like that.

• 1:37:59Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, so you say you're good at picking out fake watches?

• 1:38:02Speaker 01

  I like to think so, yeah.

• 1:38:03Graham Stephan?

  Okay. We compiled between everyone that works at the Ice Coffee Hour, watches.

• 1:38:08Speaker 01

  Right, let's go.

• 1:38:09Graham Stephan?

  They're all fake?

• 1:38:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:11Graham Stephan?

  They're all real?

• 1:38:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:13Graham Stephan?

  You don't know?

• 1:38:14Speaker 01

  Well, let's see.

• 1:38:15Graham Stephan?

  First, you're gonna be doing a look test.

• 1:38:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:18Graham Stephan?

  So, you're gonna be able to see these watches and not feel them yet.

• 1:38:23Speaker 01

  Panerai Luminor Marina, uh, real.

• 1:38:28Speaker 01

  Rolex AJ is real. Rolex Subaner, real. Aquanaut 5167, real. Real.

• 1:38:39Speaker 01

  Real.

• 1:38:41Graham Stephan?

  Now you would feel it?

• 1:38:41Jack Selby?

  Would you like to open them?

• 1:38:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. Feels... But the problem with Panerai is their genuine movements are as rubbish as their fake ones. So, you're quite close to that, it's a difficult one this. And Panerai is not really my gig, but looking at the numbers...

• 1:38:58Speaker 01

  Number 139 of 600, that is... that makes sense. Case is... Case pack is titanium, watches are...

• 1:39:06Speaker 01

  OPC, it all looks... it all looks like it makes sense, so that's real. It all looks like it makes sense, right?

• 1:39:14Speaker 01

  Well, I don't even have to look at it.

• 1:39:15Graham Stephan?

  You could feel it, you could do whatever you want.

• 1:39:16Speaker 01

  Oh, no, I don't have... like, this is fine, that's real.

• 1:39:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's real. Didn't know you had an Aquanaut, mate.

• 1:39:28Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:39:31Graham Stephan?

  Don't look at us.

• 1:39:32Speaker 01

  Absolute asshole. No, it feels, it feels, it feels legit. It feels legit.

• 1:39:46Speaker 01

  Call to Genovis, done well. If this is Chinese, I'm actually impressed.

• 1:39:52Speaker 01

  What I don't like is the clasp. That is actually gives me a wee bit of warning signs, the clasp. That worries me a wee bit.

• 1:40:01Speaker 01

  But it's too, it's too right.

• 1:40:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right. That's good.

• 1:40:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, so that's legit.

• 1:40:18Graham Stephan?

  Three of them are real, three of them are fake.

• 1:40:21Speaker 01

  This one. If there's a fake one, it's that one. If there's a fake one, it's this one.

• 1:40:29Speaker 01

  Because it's impossible really to see that.

• 1:40:31Graham Stephan?

  What do you mean it's impossible to see that?

• 1:40:33Speaker 01

  There's no tells. This is, this case is done perfect. Race it is done perfect. I don't have a date.

• 1:40:40Graham Stephan?

  You could, you could, by the way, take the watch out. You could screw it. You could do, yeah, we wanna see if. Uh, this one too.

• 1:40:50Speaker 01

  Like, it's really difficult to see that. Due to the fact I can't open a watch and I don't have much tells. But this must be fake. That one could be. It's hard to see, but I need to open it up. I need to know. I just feel that this one is legit. It just feels right.

• 1:41:11Speaker 01

  But this is the most copied watch on the planet. So it could be a trick one.

• 1:41:17Speaker 01

  That one is way too smooth. That's done perfectly. So this is legit. So if there's fake ones, it should be.

• 1:41:24Graham Stephan?

  No, you didn't open this one.

• 1:41:26Speaker 01

  Well, I have a date here and I'm pretty happy with that. And I like the Dow. I like the Dow.

• 1:41:35Speaker 01

  Screw's all right. I'm pretty happy with that. That's not too. So if it was fake, it would have been.

• 1:41:44Speaker 01

  Those three, that's 100% legit.

• 1:41:49Speaker 01

  It's a risky one, this. That one is the most copied watch. I like that watch. Rehold this, let me see if the rehold is right.

• 1:42:00Speaker 00

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• 1:43:03Speaker 01

  I like to do it this way. Three on three.

• 1:43:09Graham Stephan?

  Correct. You're correct.

• 1:43:11Speaker 01

  All right. Thank you.

• 1:43:13Graham Stephan?

  I'm actually really impressed.

• 1:43:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:15Graham Stephan?

  I thought the Patek would be the dead giveaway because of how it sounds. And it's a little thick.

• 1:43:22Speaker 01

  I didn't like the clasp, right?

• 1:43:23Graham Stephan?

  No, the clasp is awful. And you can see all the inner markings and you hear it. Listen to the movement.

• 1:43:30Speaker 01

  No, no, no. If I grab your real Akunad, you'll hear it's exactly the same. It's exactly the same.

• 1:43:35Graham Stephan?

  No way.

• 1:43:35Speaker 01

  It's exactly the same. Could you grab, oh, here. Grab that box. You'll hear it's exactly the same. Like, I love, the date is so good on this, it's actually scary. Like, that is a tell, right? This is just, this is really, this is impossible to really see this in the out. This is done by a factory called Noob, N W O B.

• 1:43:57Graham Stephan?

  This is, uh, V S F.

• 1:43:58Speaker 01

  Oh, V S F, yes, that's Noob Factory, that's the same factory, if you know what I mean. So, like, there's no way of telling that from the outside, really, right? That one, mate, like, the Panay movements were so sh-

• 1:44:12Speaker 01

  So I would say, those three real, that, that's why.

• 1:44:15Jack Selby?

  Graham, how much did you pay for this?

• 1:44:18Graham Stephan?

  Four hundred and sixty-five dollars.

• 1:44:20Jack Selby?

  Should he have bought a real one? Was this worth it?

• 1:44:23Speaker 01

  No, because now people know you're wearing a fake watch.

• 1:44:25Graham Stephan?

  Oh, I don't care.

• 1:44:27Graham Stephan?

  Oh, that's so much better than mine.

• 1:44:29Speaker 01

  Oh, I-

• 1:44:30Graham Stephan?

  Oh my gosh, this is so smooth.

• 1:44:34Speaker 01

  These are all real, by the way.

• 1:44:35Graham Stephan?

  They're all what?

• 1:44:36Speaker 01

  They're all real.

• 1:44:36Graham Stephan?

  They're all real? Oh my gosh, this Daytona is in, can I pull it?

• 1:44:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was fu- I bought that watch with every last penny I had.

• 1:44:47Graham Stephan?

  What did you pay for this?

• 1:44:48Speaker 01

  A hundred and eighty thousand euros.

• 1:44:50Graham Stephan?

  Oh.

• 1:44:53Graham Stephan?

  What do you think this is worth today?

• 1:44:55Speaker 01

  Four hundred and fifty.

• 1:44:58Jack Selby?

  In total, what is the value of all of those watches?

• 1:45:01Speaker 01

  Million, maybe.

• 1:45:03Graham Stephan?

  Is this your personal collection?

• 1:45:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't, I, I, I only travel with personal watches.

• 1:45:09Graham Stephan?

  Does this not make you nervous to travel? Like, is this all insured and like-

• 1:45:13Speaker 01

  It's all insured, yeah, yeah, but nobody knows. I travel, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.

• 1:45:18Graham Stephan?

  Now, in terms of your collection, it's gorgeous, do you have any watches that you regret selling?

• 1:45:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:25Graham Stephan?

  What is that?

• 1:45:26Speaker 01

  My first luxury watch, I had to sell my Speedmaster. Uh, still tried to buy it back, several watches, several vintage Daytonas I sold. I had to sell watches to fund the business because the business was losing money. Um, some of which I will never be able to buy back. I would argue to say the majority of watches I've sold I regret. But I've been in a very fortunate situation that the last two years I didn't need to buy or sell a watch anymore. And that means I can focus on proper collecting again.

• 1:46:01Speaker 06

  There was one clip that I didn't show you that I'm gonna show you now.

• 1:46:06Speaker 01

  And that's for extra content as well, OnlyFans?

• 1:46:09Speaker 06

  No, no, OnlyFans here. The second controversial theory that you've got is that you strongly believe that any Rolex that you buy, it's manufactured after 2010, is actually not made in Switzerland. You believe this is an Asian product.

• 1:46:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, the major part of the component parts of the watch are all made in the Orient.

• 1:46:28Speaker 06

  Do we have a Pepsi here, a modern Pepsi? Boom, right here. It's a 2025 Pepsi. What do you think? Is that a $1,500 watch or is that a $22,000 watch?

• 1:46:37Speaker 02

  It's a $1,500 watch.

• 1:46:41Speaker 02

  The reason it's a $1,500 watch is I can go to Hong Kong and buy this same thing, super clone. You can't tell the difference. That's why it's 1,500. It's 15,000 because Rolex wants 15,000. Let me tell you, after this next year and the truth comes out about production in China, try to sell this for anything. Try to sell this more than 2 grand.

• 1:47:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's just a viral clip to have a viral clip, right? What you see here is a little bollocks, right? Yes, there's parts coming out of China that doesn't really work for Rolex, for many other brands. It does. But to give you an idea, in order for a watch to be called Swiss made, 50% of the value, not 50% of the components, but 50% of the value of the movement needs to be coming from Switzerland. So that means that, yeah, they can have screws coming from China. And yes, there's nothing wrong with that because some of the Chinese manufacturing is significantly better than what they can produce in fucking Switzerland. So they're making the best product. And what you're saying is wrong. That's not a $1,500 watch. Maybe it is. It's a Rolex and it's a legit Rolex.

• 1:47:49Speaker 01

  And you're not paying for the manufacturing. Like, buying a Rolex is not the product. It's, like I said, the cycle. Right? Being able to be considered, feel special. Oh, shit. Oh, maybe I'm getting a watch. Then you get the call. Yes. Oh, I can buy a watch. Oh, shit. Now I own the watch. I can wear it. That cycle is the product, not the actual watch.

• 1:48:09Graham Stephan?

  I just, I hate that game. That game is not for me.

• 1:48:11Speaker 01

  I hate it too. I hate it too. But people want what they cannot have. That's what's called marketing. And that's a lie across, and it's, it's wrong in every way possible, but like, I mean,

• 1:48:28Speaker 01

  it's with, it's with every luxury aspect. That's the true form of luxury. It's the fact you cannot have something and you want it and there you get it. That's luxury. What he's stating is absolutely wrong.

• 1:48:40Graham Stephan?

  So one thing I'm curious about in the Mark Tilbury podcast, he said he Googled your net worth and said it came up as four million and you're like, oh no, that's really wrong. South, south of that. And they were all very surprised. I'm curious if you surpassed four million dollars now.

• 1:48:57Speaker 01

  I'm probably the richest guy on the planet. I'm telling you. I have a beautiful family and I have a job. I don't call a job. I think that that is the most important thing and that it gives, that makes me a very wealthy man. And I'm very grateful that I don't know what the price of a carton of milk is. And that is a really good place to be. I don't know what my net worth is. I know I own several companies. We employ a lot of people throughout all our companies. And we add a lot of value and my net worth? I don't know. I can't, I, I have, I have no idea. I don't care.

• 1:49:38Speaker 01

  And I want to keep it that way because the motivation is never money. The motivation is impact.

• 1:49:44Graham Stephan?

  What's your advice for success?

• 1:49:48Speaker 01

  You can only excel in the things you truly love.

• 1:49:52Speaker 01

  So when you have your passion, you can be the best at it. But it is adding value first before you are able or allowed to make a penny. Make sure you add value first. And then maybe if you work hard enough, you can take value out of it. My, my, my aim is, or my advice is, don't ever listen to anyone because

• 1:50:21Speaker 01

  people have said throughout the years and still they do that every day. You're, you will fail. You'll not do this. You'll not do that. I listen to me and I'm my own best motivation and.

• 1:50:36Speaker 01

  My kids are the reason so that I do everything now that was different back in the day when I wasn't a father. But the key is add value first before you're allowed to take any value. People say, I'm gonna start my own business, I'm gonna start, I'm gonna become an influencer and gain a following. And like, why would you gain a following? Do you add value to people that follow you? Do you give information that would actually impact their lives? Like, why would people follow you? Why do you think if you put a video out there that people would actually watch? Like, time is our most valuable asset. Why would someone take time out of their day to watch your video?

• 1:51:16Speaker 01

  And I am so incredibly grateful that people watch my videos because time is our most valuable asset. And I spend that watching a video of me talking about my favorite subject. I'm a lucky man, that makes me a very wealthy man.

• 1:51:32Graham Stephan?

  I've also noticed that you've been getting in shape.

• 1:51:35Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:51:35Graham Stephan?

  Like, really good.

• 1:51:36Speaker 01

  I appreciate that.

• 1:51:37Graham Stephan?

  What was, what was some of the motivation behind that? Was that, was it having a family that kind of sparked things into motion or?

• 1:51:43Speaker 01

  If I, there was a big chance that I wouldn't have made it the other side if I didn't change things. My life, myself, my health, we figured out things and I needed to change my lifestyle. If I wanted to see my parents, my kids grow up, which is the only motivation. And yeah, that was a big, it was a tough bill to swallow and it's a tough journey. But it's a journey I thoroughly enjoy and it's good to feel, feel fresh, feel.

• 1:52:13Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I, I, I had to do it, otherwise I, but it would have maybe ended up differently.

• 1:52:22Graham Stephan?

  It's interesting, our prior editor Alex just had a child. And he's down, I believe, probably now a hundred and fifty pounds since finding out that his wife was pregnant.

• 1:52:36Speaker 01

  Like, I respect that so much. I know how tough this is. I, I've been there on that. I lost sixty, well, about seventy pounds. And it's not been easy and I maintain it and I, it's, it's, it will always be part of my life. I um yeah, but like my kids are all my reasons and I wanna see my kids grown up. And that's the only thing. I wanna be an example to my son and I wanna protect my daughter. So I had to get my act together and I needed a wee bit of luck and we got out of that. So I'm in a really good place. And people have no idea, but there was a period that I didn't film for months. We prepared for some stuff and that I needed to go through and we've we basically filmed for a series amount of time and then

• 1:53:22Speaker 01

  I was off and I was just focused on health and and and the stuff I'm dealing with. So it's really cool.

• 1:53:28Jack Selby?

  You're looking great, man.

• 1:53:29Speaker 01

  I appreciate that. Means a lot. Means a lot.

• 1:53:31Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:33Jack Selby?

  I agree.

• 1:53:33Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:53:34Jack Selby?

  Here we have a tier list of different watch brands. I want you to list them all out.

• 1:53:40Speaker 01

  Let's go.

• 1:53:41Jack Selby?

  With your honest opinion.

• 1:53:42Speaker 01

  Let's go. Honest opinion. A Long and S is the best, yeah? A Long and S, I am not rating it. I think it is amazing. Well, no, A Long and S, I rated. Amazing watchmaking, part of the Richmond group. It's it's it's really unauthentically put in the market and affect last year. With only a hundred of a rose gold odysseus. I think the watch brand as a watch brand, as a people that work there, I would rate them, but because of their mentality and the way they wanna boost up the fake C. Audemars Piguet, uh, C. Like, and I'm just being very clear. AP is gone. AP is cooked. It is collapsing left, right and center.

• 1:54:25Speaker 01

  And that is after leaving leaving of Francois Benoît, which was the, I would say the best leader in the last 10 years. It really represented his network. The Travis Scott was one of the best watches. AP is done. It went viral, became mainstream. The impact of AP is gigantic, but the last.

• 1:54:44Speaker 01

  I don't remember anything what AP has done the last fucking couple of years, mate. I don't. I don't. So, yeah, see, I am gonna sell my gold AP. I don't wanna like, I just don't. Bretling.

• 1:55:00Speaker 01

  How am I rating, how am I rating them?

• 1:55:02Jack Selby?

  Your own criteria.

• 1:55:04Speaker 01

  My own criteria?

• 1:55:05Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:06Speaker 01

  Bretling is getting there, it's working on there, C tier, C tier, it's getting there, it's going there. Cartier makes an impact.

• 1:55:14Speaker 01

  Unbelievable cold following, do things right, it is what it is. A tier. Casio, A tier, says what it does on the tin, done. FP Journe, I was wrong with FP Journe and I'm the first one to admit it. I was wrong.

• 1:55:31Speaker 01

  I was wrong.

• 1:55:31Jack Selby?

  How are you wrong?

• 1:55:32Speaker 01

  I thought it would drop because Francois is quite of a, Francois Paul Journe is quite of a rocket. Busted off a lot of collectors throughout the years by his, his behavior, et cetera. And I thought that it would negatively impact the watch brand. I was wrong. I'm the first one to admit it. And I think it's hands down one of the most insane watch brands out there. A tier. Grand Seiko. Great watches, great watches. It's just the people that buy them. It's just absolutely embarrassing. But watch brand, great watches, B tier. I'm rating Grand Seiko above AP, just clarify, yeah? It's just, and I want you to, I really want, this is really important.

• 1:56:17Speaker 01

  There's not a Rolex owner that is ever worried about Grand Seiko. But every Grand Seiko owner is saying that Rolex is, that their watch is better than Rolex. It is just [__] brands. H Moser.

• 1:56:32Speaker 01

  Cool watches, Streamliner's cool. I would say.

• 1:56:36Speaker 01

  I can't, I'd rather, do I rather have a Moser than an AP?

• 1:56:44Speaker 01

  No, same, C tier. F tier Hublot, IWC, F tier, Jacobico, F tier, Jezz Le Cold. B tier. Omega.

• 1:56:55Speaker 01

  Lovely, lovely, cool. C. Panerai, F. Bettek Philippe.

• 1:57:03Speaker 01

  A tier. Richard Mille, A tier. Rolex.

• 1:57:14Speaker 01

  S tier. Industry wouldn't be here today without Rolex.

• 1:57:18Jack Selby?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:57:19Speaker 01

  Like Rolex has defined something that no other brand has been able to succeed. Is making the process.

• 1:57:27Speaker 01

  The luxury aspect rather than the product. It's the biggest marketing tool in the world. It is the biggest brand of them all. They're the king. There's a reason. They're the king. Seiko, really good. The Swatch, really good. I love Swatch. It's so, adds so much value to the industry. A tier. Tissot, value for money, hands down. Tissot PRX, one of the best watches out there for the money. B tier. Like it. Tudor, A tier. Love Tudor. Love the new releases. Barcelona Constantine, C tier.

• 1:58:02Speaker 01

  Zenith.

• 1:58:05Speaker 01

  D tier. I like that. It's a good list.

• 1:58:07Jack Selby?

  Cool.

• 1:58:08Speaker 01

  Did it make sense by criteria?

• 1:58:10Jack Selby?

  It did.

• 1:58:11Speaker 01

  Did it make sense?

• 1:58:11Jack Selby?

  It does. Yeah. We have, we have one more for you. This right here is a specific watch tier list. Put these watches exactly as you would. What are the best? What are the worst?

• 1:58:22Speaker 01

  All right. I'm gonna start with Jacob and Co's F tier. Absolute rubbish. Apple Watch, I think it made a big impact on the industry. I don't like it. It's not my gig. And I also think we're all over connected, by the way. I think people shouldn't wear an Apple Watch for a daily stuff. If it's for sports, it's fine. I, I, I rate that. If it's for health, it's fine. And I want my mom and dad. I want my mom to have an Apple Watch if she falls. Really functional. It's a watch. It's not really a watch. Ah, D, D, but it's, it has created so many risks, which is really important. AP Royal Oak. One of the most important watches in the industry, mate. Hands down. S tier. It is. It changed the industry. It saved the industry. Hublot Big Bang, F tier. Reshot Meal, Army 1103.

• 1:59:10Speaker 01

  B tier nowadays. If you asked me that last year, I would say A tier. But B tier today. Casio F91W. Best watch value for money. It's from Osama to Obama. It was functional in every way, shape or form. Osama used it to detonate bombs and Obama used it as his main watch. From Osama to Obama, the F91W is the best watch in the world. Bam. The Casio, really cool. Love that watch. A tier. Done. Patek Philippe Nautilus. Yes, lovely. I own several of them. Cool, very cool. Still rated below it. Sorry, I can't. This is really...

• 1:59:55Speaker 01

  Like, I'm not... There's not many people that will rate a Royal Oak above an Nautilus, but the Royal Oak was before the Nautilus. And it was the reason why the Swiss watch... Anyway. Elong and Souna Datograph. Rate watch. One of the best chronographs out there. If it's the platinum model, depends on the materials, of course. I owned that Datograph. My problem with Elong and Souna is the service. It's one of the worst service... Service in every... In the entire industry. They don't care. They will not look after you. So, and I've experienced that several times firsthand. So, for me, C tier. Cartier Santos, one of the most important watches in the world. I rate that a B.

• 2:00:37Speaker 01

  That's not bad. It's middle price. You see what I mean? It's not bad. Speedmaster, B. Class. Good. Submaner, B. Perfect. Same range. Snowflake, nice watch.

• 2:00:48Speaker 01

  But it's a Grand Seiko. And it's not better than a Rolex, so I'd put that below a Rolex. PRX, hands down, one of the best value for money watches out there. Done. Made a big impact. A tier. Tudor Black Bay. Love it on the Jubilee bracelet. A tier. No. Yeah, it... Rolex, I would rate Rolex Submaner above a Tudor, but it just... It's just so positioned so well. So, don't get me wrong. It's positioned so well.

• 2:01:17Speaker 01

  Like, there's several ways to rate this. I rate this my criteria. You know, fuck it. I don't care. It's my watch, my, my rating.

• 2:01:24Graham Stephan?

  So after doing that, I want you to review my watch collection. I brought every single watch that I have, and it's available for members. So if you sign up as a member on the channel, you'll get the full video on this.

• 2:01:37Speaker 01

  Get fuck subscribe and I. Show some love and support, will you?

• 2:01:40Jack Selby?

  Well, we are going to have you review Graham's entire collection for members only, but also we'll also end the podcast right here. Thank you, guys. So much for joining the Ice Coffee. Thank you, guys, for watching. If you made it to the end.

• 2:01:52Graham Stephan?

  You're a real one. Seriously.

• 2:01:53Jack Selby?

  You're a real one. We would not be here.

• 2:01:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. And if you become a member, he's gonna give you one of his watches.

• 2:01:58Jack Selby?

  One of his fake watches, one of his many fake watches.

• 2:02:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:01Jack Selby?

  Thank you for coming on the podcast.

• 2:02:02Speaker 01

  Do it. You do it. Done. Stop being a cheap bastard. Do you want me to give you money?

• 2:02:07Graham Stephan?

  No, no, no, no.

• 2:02:08Jack Selby?

  Please, actually, don't. Don't give him money. I would hate for you to do that. No, stop, stop, stop.

• 2:02:12Graham Stephan?

  Don't, no.

• 2:02:15Jack Selby?

  Thank you, guys, so much for watching. Until next time.

• 2:02:17Graham Stephan?

  See ya.

• 2:02:26Speaker 06

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.