MURDEROUS MINDS: The Georgia Pipe-Bomber Pt. 2

The FBI launched a manhunt for a serial bomber...and Roy Moody was hiding in plain sight. In Part 2, we follow the chilling fallout of his 1989 mail bombing spree: threats to civil rights leaders, courtroom lies, and the psychological unraveling of a killer who saw himself as the victim. Paranoia, vengeance, and delusion led him here. Now, justice closes in. Killer Minds is a Crime House Original Podcast, powered by PAVE Studios. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. For ad-free listening and early access to episodes, subscribe to Crime House+ on Apple Podcasts. Don’t miss out on all things Killer Minds! Instagram: @killerminds https://www.instagram.com/killerminds/ | @Crimehouse https://www.instagram.com/crimehouse/ TikTok: @Crimehouse https://www.tiktok.com/@crimehouse Facebook: @crimehousestudios https://www.facebook.com/crimehousestudios X: @crimehousemedia https://x.com/crimehousemedia YouTube: @crimehousestudios https://www.youtube.com/@crimehousestudios

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Vanessa Richardson?

  Hi, everyone. Before today's episode, there's another show I want to tell you about. It's called What the Fact with Connor Tomlinson from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum and Carter Roy. Every week, they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Plus, Connor's infectious energy that'll make you realize history is the most fascinating thing on earth. Follow What the Fact wherever you listen, or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  This is Crime House.

• 0:41Vanessa Richardson?

  We've all felt the sting of being wronged, whether it's over a petty grievance or a major betrayal. It creates the kind of pain that can linger for a long time. And although most of us can eventually move past those feelings, there are some people who just can't let it go. Those unresolved conflicts become a dangerous echo, growing louder and more distorted with time, until they drown out everything else. That's how it was for Roy Moody. Roy's deep-seated bitterness over his perceived mistreatment by the court system festered for years, and eventually, it consumed him until there

• 1:25Vanessa Richardson?

  was nothing left, except for an unrelenting thirst for revenge.

• 1:44Vanessa Richardson?

  The human mind is powerful. It shapes how we think, feel, love, and hate. But sometimes it drives people to commit the unthinkable. This is Killer Minds, a Crime House original. I'm Vanessa Richardson.

• 1:59Tristin Engels?

  And I'm Dr. Tristin Engels. Every Monday and Thursday, we uncover the darkest minds in history, analyzing what makes a killer.

• 2:07Vanessa Richardson?

  Crime House is made possible by you. Please rate, review, and follow Killer Minds. To enhance your listening experience with ad-free, early access to each two-part series and bonus content, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. A warning: This episode contains accounts of abuse, racism, harassment, and acts of domestic terrorism, specifically bombing. Listener discretion is advised. Today, we conclude our deep dive on Roy Moody, a domestic terrorist behind a series of bombings in the 1980s. After being punished for a minor crime, Roy decided to get revenge on the system he believed

• 2:49Vanessa Richardson?

  had wronged him, leading to a campaign of horror throughout the American South.

• 2:55Tristin Engels?

  As Vanessa goes through the story, I'll be talking about things like why a criminal might conflate justice and revenge, the psychological profile of a violent bomber, and the psyche of a killer who constantly sees themselves as a victim.

• 3:11Vanessa Richardson?

  And, as always, we'll be asking the question, what makes a killer?

• 3:19Speaker 03

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• 4:04Speaker 03

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• 4:19Vanessa Richardson?

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• 5:02Vanessa Richardson?

  By partnering directly with ethical manufacturers and cutting out traditional middlemen, Quince offers luxury products at prices 50 to 80% less than high-end competitors. Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was serial killers and murderous minds. It's the best way to support the show.

• 5:36Vanessa Richardson?

  The holiday season of 1989 was an eventful time for Roy Moody. Earlier that month, the 54-year-old sent bombs to various people and institutions associated with the justice system. Two people died as a result of his attacks: a judge named Robert Vance and civil rights attorney Robert Robinson. Roy thought that his attacks would convince the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals to handle their cases differently. He wrongly believed the court gave a leg up to black citizens while holding white people like him back. Roy was convinced that if they followed his directives, he could get his criminal record expunged and finally go back to law school.

• 6:20Vanessa Richardson?

  In the aftermath of the bombings, Roy spent the holidays with his wife, 27-year-old Susan McBride. Needless to say, it wasn't exactly a cheerful time. Roy, who was already abusive and neglectful, was in an even darker mood than usual. Susan noticed that he was reading the Bible more than usual, but not to seek comfort. Instead, he focused on one specific passage over and over. It said, "O God, to whom vengeance belongeth, who will rise up for me against evil doers?"

• 6:55Tristin Engels?

  Roy is once again conflating justice and revenge, and although he will frame it as justified, it's really his attempt to restore his personal sense of power. For him, justice wasn't about fairness or equity. It was about vindication and restoring his ego and proving that he was smarter or more powerful than those he felt wronged by. And his distorted sense of justice didn't come out of nowhere. It was built over time, shaped by early experiences, personality traits, and repeated encounters with those systems. He has a disrupted attachment stemming from childhood, and he was raised in an emotionally cold environment where behavior and emotional expression

• 7:38Tristin Engels?

  were reportedly punished rather than understood. And that kind of upbringing doesn't teach empathy or nuance. It teaches survival, control, and suspicion. Roy never saw himself as an offender, only a victim, and this led him to conflate revenge as justice. But in truth, most intentional killers distort right and wrong in a way that justifies their narrative, and they often lack moral accountability.

• 8:05Vanessa Richardson?

  While Roy waited to see if his bombings had the intended effect, his victims' families were in shock. They couldn't understand why anyone would want to attack either Robert Vance or Robert Robinson. Both men were servants of the law and seemingly had no enemies. The federal authorities in Washington, D.C. were very interested in answering that question as well. From their end, it looked like an obvious attack on the court system, and the FBI was called in to handle the investigation. At the same time, warnings were sent out to anyone connected with the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals and the NAACP. They were told not to open any packages they received.

• 8:48Vanessa Richardson?

  One such warning went out to Willie Frank Dennis, the NAACP's chapter executive in Jacksonville, Florida. There was no time to waste, so they called her at 5:30 a.m. on December 19th, the day after Robert Robinson was killed. The warning came just in time. It turned out Willie had received a mysterious package the day before, but she was busy with holiday work and parties and hadn't opened all her mail. Bomb specialists arrived at the Dennis household that same day and used x-rays to scan the package. When they did, they saw the familiar outline of a pipe bomb. After the explosive was diffused,

• 9:31Vanessa Richardson?

  investigators opened the package to dust it for fingerprints. When they did, they found a chilling message inside. It said, quote, "To the officer who opened our smoke bomb, you are hereby ordered to notify all officers of the NAACP that they have become targets for assassination because of their failure to properly strive for a competent federal judicial system." It was clear that whoever had sent the bomb wasn't going to stop. The FBI called in every available agent and ordered an explosive specialist team to scour the bomb sites for evidence. At the same time, they sent the bombs from all the attacks to a team in Washington for analysis.

• 10:16Vanessa Richardson?

  They looked at fragments from the two bombs that had exploded and the two that had been deactivated before detonation. All four had similar materials and design with identical detonators. There was no question that all of them were made by the same person. And there was at least one expert who thought he knew who it was.

• 10:39Vanessa Richardson?

  In Atlanta, a man named Lloyd J. Irwin was working as a forensic analyst with the ATF, or the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. He heard about the bombings, and it reminded him of a case he'd been an expert witness for back in 1972. It was for the trial of Roy Moody, who'd gone to jail after making a bomb that injured his girlfriend. After collecting more information, Lloyd realized the bomb Roy had used back in 1972 was a lot like the explosives in these new attacks. He brought this information to the ATF only a day after the last bomb was discovered. But even though this connection was suspicious, there wasn't concrete evidence yet, so Lloyd

• 11:24Vanessa Richardson?

  was only given a small team to look into Roy Moody.

• 11:28Tristin Engels?

  There are a few reasons why Roy may have overlooked the fact that he was making his explosives very similarly to his previous ones. First, entitled offenders often think that they can outsmart law enforcement. Because of their grandiosity or their sense of superiority, they tend to overestimate their intelligence and underestimate the skills of authorities. Second, Roy was very rigid in his thinking because of his need for control and order. Individuals with obsessive or rigid personality structures tend to do things in highly specific, repeatable ways. That same rigidity can lead them to use familiar techniques, even if it increases the risk of detection. So in other words, familiarity overrides caution.

• 12:12Tristin Engels?

  Third, when emotions are high, rational thinking is lowered. He may have been focused more on the message or symbolism of the act than on avoiding consequences. And lastly, given that he was using this specific Bible passage as justification or validation for his actions, he may have believed he was the moral exception. He might have truly believed he would not or could not have been punished for this because he genuinely believed that he was morally justified and in the right. So what looks like sloppiness can actually be the product of overconfidence, psychological rigidity, or even tunnel vision.

• 12:51Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, with nobody coming after Roy just yet, that meant he was free to continue his twisted campaign for justice. At the end of December, he mailed a letter to Brenda Wood, a black anchorwoman at the WAGA TV station in Atlanta. When she got the envelope, she was baffled by the return address, which read, "Americans for a Competent Judicial System, Alabama, Florida, and Georgia." Brenda was pretty sure that organization didn't exist, and it got even stranger when she opened it up and read the letter's contents. The message was basically a rant about anti-white prejudice in the court system. It went on to call for the 11th Circuit's judges to spend less time desegregating schools

• 13:35Vanessa Richardson?

  and seeking justice for racial disparity, and more time protecting innocent citizens, white citizens. The letter ended with a demand for Brenda to broadcast its contents. If she didn't, she would meet the same fate as the bomber's two other victims: death.

• 13:59Speaker 04

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• 14:29Speaker 05

  Can't switch off at night? Give your curious mind somewhere peaceful to wander. I'm Simon Mettacks, host of Sleepy History. Join me for lost cities and ancient mysteries, told slowly and calmly, to help you drift off. And if you miss the ending, oh, that's rather the idea. Find Sleepy History in your podcast app, and try an episode tonight.

• 15:01Vanessa Richardson?

  In late December 1989, an anchorwoman named Brenda Wood contacted the authorities with some urgent news. She'd received a threatening letter and was pretty sure it had something to do with the bombings earlier that month. When investigators got a hold of it, they agreed it was very alarming, but they were also hopeful because the letter held a series of clues. It had a legalistic tone to it, which made it likely the writer was familiar with the law. It also referenced cases that were connected with the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals, which was also one of the bombing targets. Putting it all together, the authorities were on the lookout for someone who had a legal

• 15:42Vanessa Richardson?

  background and was specifically associated with the 11th Circuit in some way. It doesn't seem like this information was communicated to ATF agent Lloyd J. Irwin, who was already looking into Roy, albeit with very limited resources. Because of that, the main investigators on the case focused on someone else, and in January 1990, they started moving in. They'd flagged a man named Robert Wayne O'Farrell, a junk dealer in southern Alabama. The authorities learned that he'd filed an appeal at his local courthouse and thought it had a lot of similarities to the bomber's messages. When the authorities compared them, they realized that the alignment and typeface

• 16:24Vanessa Richardson?

  on Robert's appeal letter were identical, meaning it was the exact same typewriter that was used to write the bomber's letters. After that, the FBI got search warrants for a raid on Robert's store, and he was brought in for interrogation. Of course, Robert had nothing to do with the bombs and was stunned to find out he was a suspect, and due to a lack of additional evidence, he was eventually released without being charged.

• 16:52Tristin Engels?

  I think this pursuit of Robert was driven by an intense pressure to act, not just from the public, but also internally. When an act of violence targets members of the government, it doesn't just become a criminal investigation, it becomes a direct attack on the rule of law and the institutions that uphold it. And that shifts everything. Law enforcement isn't just trying to solve the crime, they're trying to neutralize a message because targeting governmental entities sends a signal to the community that no one's safe, not even the people in charge. And that can affect public trust, institutional credibility, and cause national security concerns. So the pressure to show the public that they were in control was likely higher than normal,

• 17:37Tristin Engels?

  and that can create a confirmation bias within law enforcement. They didn't have enough evidence to bring charges on Robert, yet they pursued him anyway. And once a name gets attached to something like this, it becomes increasingly easy to reinterpret neutral, ambiguous evidence as supportive when it's not. And unfortunately, Robert ended up being the unwilling participant of a message from law enforcement, and that was one intended to counteract the message of terrorism that was occurring. But it clearly backfired, and it could have done more damage to public perception in the long run. It was certainly damaging to Robert because he is now associated with these crimes, and even though he was cleared, there's now a spotlight on him

• 18:20Tristin Engels?

  for even being considered in the first place.

• 18:24Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, it was likely disappointing to investigators that the Robert O'Farrell lead didn't pan out. But around this same time, Lloyd Irwin and his team of ATF agents finally had enough evidence to tell the FBI that they had a suspect: Roy Moody. Lloyd Irwin had been working with the ATF over the last month to confirm his suspicions about Roy. The organization had access to a computerized database where they could search for explosives similar to the one the bomber had used. Roy's bomb from 1972 was the only one that was nearly identical to the explosives used in December. Their investigation also revealed that Roy was extremely litigious and had a long history of antagonizing the courts

• 19:09Vanessa Richardson?

  to serve his own ends. This lined up with their profile, since the bomber's letters sounded like they were from someone familiar with the legal system. When the FBI heard about Roy Moody and all the evidence the ATF and Lloyd had uncovered, they agreed Roy Moody was a prime suspect. After that, things moved very quickly. On February 7, 1990, the FBI obtained a search warrant for Roy's residence in Georgia. They also interviewed his former associates, which led to a major breakthrough when they found one of Roy's early bomb prototypes in a friend's basement.

• 19:49Vanessa Richardson?

  That discovery was enough for the FBI to get permission to tap Roy's phone and conduct other surveillance. Thanks to those efforts, in 1990, they were able to locate a woman named Julie Lynn West. A mutual friend had put Roy and Julie in touch a few years earlier when Roy was trying to get his 1972 bombing conviction overturned. He wanted her to confirm his story that someone named Jean Wallace had dropped the bomb off at his house. In exchange for monthly $100 payments, Julie had gone along with it, although the effort was ultimately unsuccessful.

• 20:28Vanessa Richardson?

  When the investigators in 1990 questioned Julie, she realized she was in serious trouble. It didn't take long for her to admit that the Jean Wallace story was a lie and that Roy had paid her to tell it. After Julie's confession, authorities set up cameras in her home, hoping to capture Roy on tape when he came to see her. Sure enough, he stopped by shortly after and told Julie she had to keep lying or he would hurt her mother.

• 21:01Tristin Engels?

  Roy's showing up after Julie's confession and threatening her mother is not uncharacteristic for him. He's been using verbal threats or coercion to assert control and dominance for some time now, and certainly with the women in his life, and then, of course, with his letters and so forth. This is his attempt to reassert control over a woman who, for several years, has already been abiding by his demands. He's slowly losing that control. But he's also using emotional leverage because bribing her financially would not be enough. He knows she's going to instinctively want to protect herself, and doing that would be threatening to him. It also shows us how Roy continues to remain calculated, manipulative and strategic under emotional stress.

• 21:46Tristin Engels?

  But this also reads like a classic threat response pattern in someone with a controlling personality structure. When exposed or contradicted, they often react with aggression. In other words, Roy's threat wasn't just an outburst, it was a deliberate act stemming from fear of losing power.

• 22:04Vanessa Richardson?

  So Roy is definitely, obviously vengeful, but he hasn't actually hurt anyone on purpose outside of his obviously larger mission to ruin the courts. Would he actually have attacked, physically attacked her mother?

• 22:16Tristin Engels?

  I think it's possible that Roy would attack anyone he feels personally rejected by. And if you think about it, his first pipe bomb was built for Tom Downing, the auto dealer who repossessed his car. That wasn't an ideological attack, that was a personal attack, or attempted attack, we should say. It was retribution for feeling wronged by Tom, even though it's his own fault that his car was repossessed. If Julie stopped lying for him, he will most certainly feel wronged by her, especially when that betrayal is in response to the legal system. That's why I think it's very possible that he would actually harm her or her mother. But is it likely?

• 23:00Tristin Engels?

  I don't think it's likely because, you know, it's not because he has compassion, but because he's strategic. Attacking her mother would be risky, and even attacking Julie would be risky. And when he's already got the FBI zeroing in on him, or the ATF, anything that happened to Julie or her family would strengthen evidence against him.

• 23:20Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, even though the authorities had caught Roy threatening a witness, it didn't do much in terms of the pending bombing charges. It had one very distinct value, though. It was illegal, which meant investigators were fully within their rights to arrest him. But first, they wanted to keep building the larger, more severe part of their case, which was the double homicide of Robert Vance and Robert Robinson. Over the next few months, the authorities continued to gather evidence on Roy. They confirmed that he'd bought gunpowder while trying to disguise himself in an orange wig and pink glasses. They knew that he'd already built an identical bomb back in 1972 and paid someone to lie about it.

• 24:05Vanessa Richardson?

  Put it all together, and they were certain that Roy Moody was the 1989 package bomber, and that it was time to bring him to justice.

• 24:21Vanessa Richardson?

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• 25:40Speaker 01

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• 26:39Vanessa Richardson?

  In 2002, Ryan Wedding was an Olympic snowboarder at the top of his game.

• 26:45Speaker 06

  Ryan's style is really gunning it in gold.

• 26:48Vanessa Richardson?

  And in less than a minute, it slipped away. But he continued to chase the high.

• 26:53Speaker 07

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• 27:03Vanessa Richardson?

  I'm Michelle Shepherd, and from CBC Podcasts and The Toronto Star, The Most Wanted Olympian. Available now. On July 10, 1990, the authorities surrounded 55-year-old Roy Moody's home in Georgia. In a panic, Roy ran to the phone to call his lawyer, but the agents poured into his house before he could even finish dialing. One of them accosted Roy and ordered him to go outside. He followed the officers out of his home, and soon, his wife, Susan, joined him. They were both placed under arrest and put in separate cars, then driven to jail.

• 27:45Vanessa Richardson?

  Once Roy was in custody, the preparations for his trial began in earnest. But it wasn't cut and dry. The technicalities of Roy's imprisonment were a little complicated. The charge he was actually arrested on was obstruction of justice for extorting his former witness, Julie Lynn West. But the bombing case was built on two pieces of circumstantial evidence: the similarities between the 1972 explosives and the ones from 1989, along with the testimony that Roy had bought four pounds of gunpowder while wearing a disguise.

• 28:19Tristin Engels?

  Most criminal cases are built on circumstantial evidence, which is a fact that surprises many people. But legally, circumstantial evidence carries the same weight as direct evidence.

• 28:31Vanessa Richardson?

  They knew he was the bomber, but they needed a few more pieces of evidence to prove it. If they could connect him to the letters that had been sent to the victims, though, they'd have a much better case. So the prosecution reached out to their initial suspect, Robert O'Farrell. He'd previously been a suspect because he used the exact same typewriter that some of the bombing notes were written on. So the prosecution wanted to get a hold of that typewriter and see if they could somehow link it to Roy. It turned out, Robert's wife, Mary, had sold the typewriter in their junk shop, and in October 1990, Mary agreed to participate in a formal police lineup to see if she recognized the buyer.

• 29:14Vanessa Richardson?

  As soon as she got to the station and saw her options, she immediately pointed to a woman: Roy's wife, Susan McBride. It was the connection the prosecution needed, and they quickly indicted Roy for the murders of Robert Vance and Robert Robinson. The defense attempted to get ahead of the evidence and charges and try for the insanity plea. In the early fall of 1990, three different psychologists evaluated Roy. All but one determined that he was extremely intelligent, with a competent mind, and had no evidence of serious mental illness. But the third wasn't so sure. He claimed that Roy had a "persecution complex" and that his thinking was "essentially schizophrenic."

• 30:02Tristin Engels?

  So a persecution complex was used to describe a psychological pattern where a person believes, often without any objective evidence, that they are being targeted, harassed, or conspired against by others. Now, I've never met nor evaluated Roy, so I'm not offering any formal diagnosis, and this is for educational purposes only. But from what you've shared of his story, if I was asked to evaluate someone like Roy or Roy himself, I would certainly rule out a persecutory delusion as best practice. But there hasn't been any evidence of psychosis or full disconnection from reality, from what we know. However, he does appear to show persecutory thinking, which is different from a clinical delusion.

• 30:46Tristin Engels?

  In addition to paranoid and persecutory thinking, he has a pattern of rigid thinking, chronic externalization of blame, and he views himself as the perpetual victim. That, in addition to his prior character disorder diagnosis, is why I would want to rule out personality disorders, including paranoid personality disorder. We haven't touched on paranoid personality disorder in any previous episodes, but this condition is characterized by pervasive distrust and suspicion of others, and they interpret the motives of others as malevolent, even when there's no basis for it. It impacts their ability to form close or healthy relationships. In Roy's case, we have definitely seen those traits outlined for some time.

• 31:30Tristin Engels?

  It's also reflected in his relational patterns. He hasn't formed close or healthy relationships with people his own age or status. Instead, he targeted younger, more impressionable women or children, like Susan and Julie. Why? Because they were less likely to challenge him, more likely to comply, and less equipped to detect manipulation. He could control them and feel less suspicious of them as a result. And as I covered earlier, personality disorders are not conditions that would impair someone's ability to understand the nature of their actions or distinguish between right from wrong. But being bitter, resentful, vengeful, and rigid does not meet the legal standard for an insanity defense.

• 32:17Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, while Roy underwent these psychiatric evaluations, Susan's parents posted bail for her release from jail. After that, she tried to distance herself from Roy by filing for divorce in October 1990. But the prosecution wasn't about to let her get off that easy. They got her to agree to a plea deal. In exchange for immunity, she would testify against Roy. About two months later, in December 1990, Roy was tried on his first charge of obstruction of justice. The trial was fast. He was found guilty and sentenced to 15 years in prison. As his murder trial loomed, his defense team still hoped to use the insanity plea.

• 32:59Vanessa Richardson?

  Since the prior evaluations hadn't given them the result they'd hoped for, they had yet another doctor evaluate Roy in May 1991. This doctor taped their sessions, and these recordings revealed that Roy liked to paint himself as the perpetual victim. He constantly lamented over his 1972 conviction and how he believed he was at a disadvantage from the start. He then cried foul at all his failed appeals and blamed basically everyone but himself. This doctor also studied footage of Roy while he was being held in his jail cell and found that Roy had a habit of talking to himself. After their interviews,

• 33:41Vanessa Richardson?

  the doctor concluded that Roy had a paranoid personality disorder, but not any serious mental illness that would prevent him from understanding right from wrong.

• 33:52Tristin Engels?

  Yeah, I know I gave a general overview of paranoid personality disorder, but let's explore it a little deeper. Individuals with this condition tend to be hyper vigilant, deeply guarded, and prone to bearing grudges. And importantly, they often externalize blame, which means when something goes wrong, they see it as the result of someone else's hostility, incompetence, or betrayal. So what does that mean for someone like Roy? The fact that he constantly painted himself as a victim or lamented over his conviction and blamed everybody but himself is very characteristic of paranoid personality pathology. Even during his trial, he showed no guilt and no indication he was capable of accountability

• 34:37Tristin Engels?

  because he was incapable of seeing himself as anything other than the victim. Guilt is a foreign concept to Roy because guilt requires insight and the ability to see his own role in causing harm. For someone like Roy who sees himself as perpetually wronged, that kind of self-reflection is threatening. It's safer psychologically to believe that he's the victim, not the aggressor. In other words, it's not that he doesn't know his behavior was wrong, it's that he doesn't feel guilty because in his mind, it was justified.

• 35:09Vanessa Richardson?

  I have to ask, what does Roy speaking to himself in prison mean in terms of his mental state? Is talking to yourself abnormal?

• 35:17Tristin Engels?

  Roy talking to himself while in custody doesn't automatically indicate psychosis. In fact, talking to yourself is not inherently pathological. Many people do it, especially under stress or isolation. But the content, tone, and pattern of that behavior can offer important clues about his mental state. Firstly, there's a significant difference between internal dialogue and auditory hallucinations. If he was hallucinating, the doctor would likely have seen the same behavior during the evaluation. If someone is experiencing auditory hallucinations, they often respond to them internally or externally. That doesn't seem to be the case because he only observed him doing this in that one setting.

• 36:01Tristin Engels?

  So instead, although he centered himself as the victim during the evaluation, there didn't seem to be any observed disorganized thought process or incoherent content consistent with psychosis. When we consider the content and pattern of behavior, it's more likely than not that he was engaging in something called cognitive rehearsal. An individual like Roy who feels compelled to justify their behavior, especially when facing legitimate consequences for the first time, may engage in persistent rumination, reframing their actions as defensible and mentally rehearse narratives in which they are cast as the victim rather than the offender. I've worked with individuals with paranoid personality disorder, and this is consistent

• 36:46Tristin Engels?

  with that condition. They need to state their case repeatedly for personal vindication because personal vindication is something they're constantly seeking. It could also be his way of regulating his emotions while detained. Incarceration's destabilizing and isolating, especially for individuals with rigid personality structures or like paranoia on the way that he has. Talking to himself may function as a coping mechanism, a way to manage anxiety, boredom, or intrusive thoughts when his normal outlets are unavailable to him. So overall, and based on what we know, I think that Roy's self-talk reflects preoccupation, not psychosis.

• 37:28Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, in the end, it didn't truly matter what the doctors determined because before the end of May, Roy decided to withdraw his insanity plea. In his mind, his crimes were committed in self-defense because, according to Roy, he was the victim of what he called judicial rape. It's unclear what he meant by that, but regardless of how Roy was pleading, his trial date soon arrived. In June 1991, he went to court to face charges for the murders of Robert Vance and Robert Robinson. The prosecution set the stage by dramatically describing the blast that killed Vance and

• 38:08Vanessa Richardson?

  Robinson, along with the ominous near-explosion at the NAACP and the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals. They painted Roy as a cold, calculating criminal who thought he could outsmart the legal system. He worked alone on his plan to seek vengeance against the courts, and Susan McBride was his subservient wife, caught in the crossfire of the law and Roy's rage. But they couldn't convict Roy on a story alone. The prosecution also called Lloyd Irwin to the stand. He described the bombs in great detail and how they were similar to Roy's 1972 bomb. After that, the prosecution interviewed various lawyers who had worked on a large range of lawsuits with Roy over the years.

• 38:53Vanessa Richardson?

  They spoke to his obsessive and dangerous appetite for what he called "justice."

• 39:00Vanessa Richardson?

  After that, some of the victims of the bombings were called to testify, as well as officers from the 11th Circuit who initially found the bomb. Through it all, the prosecution described Roy's unquenchable thirst for revenge. Towards the end of the trial, Susan took the stand to testify against her ex-husband. She described how she'd met Roy at 18 years old, took over his scam businesses, was abused physically, then isolated and kept away from family and friends. Susan recounted the errands she ran for Roy, and how she would pick up strange materials like nails and pipe and stamps through the fall of 1989.

• 39:43Vanessa Richardson?

  She told the court how secretive and angry Roy had gotten during that time, and how on December 21, 1989, when Roy heard that a bomb had gone off in a Maryland judge's home, he mumbled, "I didn't do that one." The defense had an immensely hard time competing with the prosecution's claims, especially after Susan's testimony. And then things got even worse for Roy's case, because he insisted on taking the stand for himself. As usual, he played the victim.

• 40:18Tristin Engels?

  Yeah, defendants are not required to take the stand. So Roy's decision to do that and play victim likely wasn't about any legitimate or advised legal strategy. It was just, once again, about reclaiming control. He essentially had a stage where everyone would have to listen, and he was going to capitalize off that. Especially if he's been doing emotional rehearsal this whole time, he's got a story that's been rehearsed that he wants to share. Again, this is consistent with a paranoid personality structure. The courtroom becomes a stage for vindication, or at least the illusion of it. He was incapable of introspection and accountability, so he took the chance to double down when he could.

• 41:02Vanessa Richardson?

  Did he think he could turn his case around and actually prove his innocence?

• 41:07Tristin Engels?

  Honestly, I don't think he wanted to proclaim his innocence. It doesn't appear that Roy was even trying to deny his actions. Rather, it seems he believed that if he could present his version of events, one in which he was the victim of systemic injustice, he believed the court would validate his perspective. In his mind, acknowledging guilt would have meant surrendering to a corrupt system, but also, I don't think he's capable of recognizing himself as guilty. And because of that, he doubled down, hoping that by presenting his case as the aggrieved party, his actions would be seen as justified, even righteous, by the court. Though, if he truly had paranoid personality disorder

• 41:49Tristin Engels?

  and he was somehow given the validation he was seeking by sharing his version of events, it would still be seen through a suspicious lens. And that's the struggle with that condition. It's pervasive like that. Even if he was given vindication, I don't think he'd trust that even.

• 42:09Vanessa Richardson?

  However Roy felt about his charges, by the end of June 1991, both sides rested their cases. The jury deliberated for just a few hours before finding him guilty on all counts. Two months later, Roy was sentenced to seven life terms plus 400 years. But eventually, this sentence was changed to death by electrocution. Finally, in 2018, Roy Moody died by lethal injection at 83 years old. For the families of his victims, his end was bittersweet. Roy's death would not bring back their loved ones, but it would provide some sense of closure.

• 42:54Vanessa Richardson?

  Although Roy's crimes revealed some wounds that had yet to heal. In the area the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals served, this case was a stark reminder that the fight for racial equality wasn't over. Roy's letters spewed hatred and vitriol at the civil rights movement and spoke to a larger undercurrent of racism that still festered in his community. Thankfully, this message was not tolerated and that in the course of Roy Moody's misguided quest for retribution, he was the one who faced justice.

• 43:44Vanessa Richardson?

  Thanks so much for listening. Join us next time for a deep dive into the life and mind of another killer.

• 43:51Tristin Engels?

  Killer Minds is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on Instagram at Killer Minds. And don't forget to rate, review, and follow Killer Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference.

• 44:13Vanessa Richardson?

  And to enhance your listening experience, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode of Killer Minds ad-free, along with early access to each thrilling two-part series and exciting Crime House bonus content.

• 44:30Vanessa Richardson?

  Killer Minds is hosted by me, Vanessa Richardson, and Dr. Tristin Engels, and is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Killer Minds team: Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benedon, Lori Marinelli, Natalie Pritzowski, Sarah Camp, Kate Murdock, Meredith Allen, Hania Said, and Carrie Murphy. Thank you for listening.

• 45:01Vanessa Richardson?

  If you're looking for your next podcast, check out What the Fact with Connor Tomlinson from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum and Carter Roy. Every week, they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Follow What the Fact wherever you listen or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.