Actor Timothy Olyphant (‘Justified’) is Riding High

Timothy Olyphant has made a career out of masking the effort behind his effortless performances. He joins us on the heels of his recent turns in Lucky and The Five-Star Weekend. We talk about performing opposite Anya Taylor-Joy (3:53), his upbringing in Modesto, California (7:00), and the years he spent swimming competitively at USC before trading in the fine arts for acting (14:30). Then, Timothy reflects on moving to New York to study at the legendary William Esper Studio (18:38), what actor Holly Hunter taught him about keeping a presence of mind on set (26:00), and the creative freedom he found working with showrunner David Milch on Deadwood (34:34). On the back-half, Olyphant discusses the collaborative spirit behind Justified with Walton Goggins (39:00), getting caught in the midst of real gunfire at the set of Justified: City Primeval in Chicago (49:00), acting alongside Leonardo DiCaprio (53:00), David Fincher’s famously meticulous process (56:10), and what he envisions for his next chapter (1:07:15). Subscribe to our ⁠YouTube channel⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@talkeasypod. As always, our email: [email protected]. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Sam Fragoso?

  You said once that I realized if you could just knock an interviewer off balance a little bit at hello, it made the interview a little bit easier from that moment forward.

• 0:11Speaker 01

  I don't think that's true.

• 0:14Speaker 01

  Where'd you get that shit?

• 0:15Sam Fragoso?

  Armchair expert.

• 0:16Speaker 01

  You're just making that crap up?

• 0:17Sam Fragoso?

  No, no.

• 0:18Speaker 01

  I didn't mean serious interviewers like you. You can't knock you off balance. Your list of guests, this is a, this is a bit of a snooze day for you.

• 0:26Sam Fragoso?

  It's not. No.

• 0:28Speaker 01

  Thank you. I was fishing.

• 0:29Sam Fragoso?

  I know. I know.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  You get nervous when you come in for these?

• 0:33Sam Fragoso?

  Absolutely.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  I'm not saying today, but do you get like on a?

• 0:35Sam Fragoso?

  I absolutely get nervous. I was so.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Which ones make you the most nervous?

• 0:38Sam Fragoso?

  The ones where I have to interview actors from Justified.

• 0:49Sam Fragoso?

  This is Talk Easy. I'm Sam Fragoso. Welcome to the show.

• 1:06Sam Fragoso?

  Today, actor Timothy Olyphant. Once upon a time in Hollywood, one would have justified top billing for someone like Olyphant. It wouldn't have been lucky either. Just imagine this good place, an industry where no actor subsisted on a Santa Clarita diet. The dead wood fell away and the Olyphant in the room was finally addressed. You wouldn't have to go to Amsterdam or Fargo. It wouldn't require a perfect getaway or a five-star weekend to properly recognize his talents. No, in this timeline, this conception of Hollywood, everything would have come full circle. And Timothy Olyphant would, at long last, not be a mere hitman, but a leading man. Well, that's the world I want to live in.

• 1:50Sam Fragoso?

  And you know, it's the world we do live in during today's episode. A one-of-one conversation with a one-of-one actor who's been doing the work for nearly three decades. This is Timothy Olyphant.

• 2:04Sam Fragoso?

  Timothy Olyphant, nice to meet you.

• 2:06Speaker 01

  Pleasure to meet you too.

• 2:07Sam Fragoso?

  How are we doing?

• 2:08Speaker 01

  So far, so good.

• 2:09Sam Fragoso?

  You okay?

• 2:10Speaker 01

  So far. How about you?

• 2:12Sam Fragoso?

  I mean, you're here, it's gotta be a good day.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  God bless you for saying so.

• 2:17Sam Fragoso?

  When you wake up in the morning, do you just go, God, this is going really well?

• 2:23Speaker 01

  I don't like where this question's going. This is your first question?

• 2:27Sam Fragoso?

  I mean, like, when you look in the mirror every morning, you go, just, I cannot believe my luck.

• 2:30Speaker 01

  No, I reject this question. I pass. It's pass. I know there's a compliment in there, but somehow I took offense to it.

• 2:37Sam Fragoso?

  I don't know how you could. You're one of the most handsome guys we got. It feels like you're living a pretty good, charmed existence.

• 2:46Speaker 01

  Listen, under this whole

• 2:48Sam Fragoso?

  veneer.

• 2:49Speaker 01

  cool veneer, there's a neurotic actor underneath it, just a whining baby.

• 2:54Sam Fragoso?

  I don't think you've ever played a whining baby.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  I throw some whining in there.

• 3:00Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, which ones are that?

• 3:01Speaker 01

  Someone once told me, an actor, told me that you'd be amazed how far out of what scene, quote unquote, "character," you can behave at any given moment in a scene, and it'll still hold together. And I've always been fascinated by pushing that envelope scene. So, you know, playing like a tough guy role, if I can start whining in the middle of the scene, just for a minute.

• 3:26Sam Fragoso?

  Just a touch of?

• 3:27Speaker 01

  Just a touch of whining, I find, just to see if it'll hold.

• 3:31Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, so far, I think it's held pretty well for you.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  I can start whining right now. I mean, these questions are invasive.

• 3:39Sam Fragoso?

  We're literally just getting started, and we have a long way to go.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  We'll see.

• 3:43Sam Fragoso?

  Okay. You gonna walk out like David Mamet?

• 3:47Speaker 01

  Only because I think it'd be good for the show.

• 3:51Sam Fragoso?

  I mean, the numbers would be spectacular.

• 3:52Speaker 01

  The numbers would be great.

• 3:54Sam Fragoso?

  In the new show, Lucky, you play Anya Taylor-Joy's father. I'm just trying to keep us a touch on track. A con man and criminal locked up in Lompoc, who has spent his life preparing his daughter to enter the family business. How did you start to kind of work your way into that part in that show?

• 4:14Speaker 01

  This is gonna be very disappointing, but the same way I do any part, I just start learning the lines.

• 4:22Sam Fragoso?

  Well, we got that down. I'm gonna check that off.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  I mean, that's basically the gist of the gig. You learn your lines and you say your lines clearly. So, you know, that's really the job.

• 4:32Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  I think you also know, you know, you just gotta know what you're doing. You gotta know if you're flirting or you or giving an order or confiding. And that's basically the gist of it. You know, K I S S. Keep it simple, stupid. So the genius over here on this side of the table, he, he, he just kind of memorizes the lines and he shows up and um.

• 4:56Sam Fragoso?

  As opposed to me with all your questions.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  Well.

• 4:59Sam Fragoso?

  Writing things down.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is how, this, this paper you have in front of you, that seems exhausting.

• 5:05Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, it's not.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 5:07Sam Fragoso?

  No. You know why?

• 5:09Speaker 01

  Here, let's hear it.

• 5:09Sam Fragoso?

  Cause I care. Now, uh, why don't we look at Timothy Unburdened, acting opposite Anya Taylor-Joy in the new show Lucky?

• 5:18Speaker 01

  Do you have a plan?

• 5:20Speaker 02

  Still catching my breath.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  Okay, well, remember, no one runs a board better than you.

• 5:25Speaker 02

  Not today, Dad.

• 5:28Speaker 02

  They had me in a box before I even realized what was happening.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  But you got out, didn't you? How many people you think could have pulled that off?

• 5:37Speaker 01

  Listen to me.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  Do you hear my voice?

• 5:42Speaker 01

  I am right there with you.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  I am in your head, okay? And we will find a way, just like always. You know me, we don't lose.

• 5:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. Says the man in prison.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  Touche. How was it?

• 5:58Sam Fragoso?

  I mean, you tell me.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  I thought she was great.

• 6:03Sam Fragoso?

  She's really good.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  Yes, she is, by the way.

• 6:06Sam Fragoso?

  She is, actually.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  And she's, uh, you don't have to say actually at the end. If I was listening to that, Anya, I'd be offended if someone throws in actually. It's, it's pretty good, actually. I'm like, what the, what the fuck did you have to say actually for?

• 6:19Sam Fragoso?

  For you, Anya, really fantastic.

• 6:22Speaker 01

  And I said, she's really good. And you said, she is actually. No, just, she is.

• 6:27Sam Fragoso?

  The worst part is, I know she does listen and I feel really bad about this now.

• 6:30Speaker 01

  Well, I'm a huge fan of hers.

• 6:32Sam Fragoso?

  Me too.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  And she knows that. And I was already saying it before I knew she was listening.

• 6:35Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 6:35Speaker 01

  I'm a fan of not only, uh, how she, like, her work, but, uh, how she works. She was very refreshing. It was just. Very comfortable being on her set. I just really, I really enjoyed it. I was very appreciative of it.

• 6:51Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm. I want to talk about how you were raised a little bit, like long before you were a three-time primetime Emmy nominee for your work on Justified, Deadwood the Movie and The Mandalorian. You grew up as the middle child in Modesto.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 7:06Sam Fragoso?

  In what I imagine was like American graffiti, but with uglier cars.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  That's, that's my, that's my, I say that. Did you just take that from me?

• 7:17Sam Fragoso?

  I don't know what you mean.

• 7:17Speaker 01

  I say in any time as like American graffiti, we just had uglier cars. Is that part, is that where you got that?

• 7:24Sam Fragoso?

  I don't know what you're talking about.

• 7:25Speaker 01

  Or are we like, okay, well.

• 7:27Sam Fragoso?

  No, yes, it is.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  God, you took it from me. It's true. I drove around in a Volkswagen Rabbit.

• 7:34Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  Which is actually a pretty cool car.

• 7:35Sam Fragoso?

  Did girls like the Rabbit?

• 7:37Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. It was cool. And then we kind of V dubbed it out. Like I got in a fender bear, someone rear ended, someone that hit rear ended me and, and then I got to, my car got a free paint job.

• 7:48Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  And it could have been on a V dub magazine, kind of.

• 7:51Sam Fragoso?

  Great work.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:52Sam Fragoso?

  Musically, were you swapping out Chuck Berry for Steely Dan? This is like the seventies in Modesto.

• 7:57Speaker 01

  Not a lot of Steely Dan.

• 7:59Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  But.

• 7:59Sam Fragoso?

  You took offense at that.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  Maybe a little. It was just a, it was a big, you swung and you missed by, I mean, I remember Hey 19, so sure. Um, and I'm sure if you gave me one more, I'd be like, oh yeah, yeah, Steely Dan.

• 8:14Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, you know, good thing is like with this kind of interview, there's a lot of at bats. I'll keep trying.

• 8:19Speaker 01

  Like Owen Wilson, Owen Wilson played a character in a movie that was Steely Dan's tune. And they, as I recall, they wanted him to come out publicly and say that no association with Steely Dan. And so he came out and just gave a quote saying that the, the character he played in the movie and the band had not, wanted nothing to do with each other. And now he had to get back to work on his next movie, Hey 19.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  This is a great quote.

• 8:50Sam Fragoso?

  So you're in the rabbit. What, tell me, what kinda, what kinda kid were you?

• 8:54Speaker 01

  The kinda kid who wouldn't listen to Steely Dan in his cool little V-dub.

• 8:59Sam Fragoso?

  Right.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  Lot of heavy metal. And, um, and then like, I think a lot of punk and ska kinda stuff. I mean, you're talking to a guy who's seen Judas Priest live more than once.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  Twisted Sister at the Manteca Water Slides, you know what I mean? Like this kinda quality.

• 9:17Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  So you can understand the Steely Dan tune. You understand how offensive it is now.

• 9:22Sam Fragoso?

  Deeply offensive. I might as well say the Eagles.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. It's like, like Lavaski. Just really hate the Eagles, man. Man, come on. I had a rough night and I hate the fucking Eagles, man.

• 9:36Sam Fragoso?

  So when you were not listening to the Eagles and not listening to Steely Dan, I'm trying to imagine like you're in high school, you're down by the canal.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:46Sam Fragoso?

  Drinking.

• 9:46Speaker 01

  Canal ran right behind the house.

• 9:47Sam Fragoso?

  Drinking, uh, Mickey's Big Mouth.

• 9:49Speaker 01

  Good.

• 9:50Sam Fragoso?

  What did you wanna do besides pick up girls? Did you have aspirations at that point?

• 9:55Speaker 01

  Um, so I think quietly on the inside, deep down on the inside, I kinda had this whole life in mind, I think.

• 10:03Sam Fragoso?

  How deep?

• 10:04Speaker 01

  I never mentioned it. I didn't mention it till, I mean, my wife, after we got married, when I told her I was thinking about maybe, uh, doing, acting, uh, she did say to me a quote, "You've never mentioned this before." So that's post-high school. That's post-college. That's maybe the first time I kinda said that. I think my wife may have heard it first.

• 10:30Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  And that was her reply.

• 10:31Sam Fragoso?

  Cause you met at USC in college.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  Met in college.

• 10:34Sam Fragoso?

  You were swimming.

• 10:35Speaker 01

  I swam in college.

• 10:36Sam Fragoso?

  It was one of the only schools that didn't offer you a scholarship.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  That's not true. There were a lot of schools that didn't offer me a scholarship. Uh, there were other schools that did. And I really, and this might go back to that, uh, Young man at the canal with his little secret, which is, I really wanted to come to LA. I just really wanted to come to SC and when they said they didn't have money, I was like, I'm coming anyway. So I didn't get into UCLA. There's my dirty secret.

• 11:04Sam Fragoso?

  So, so there was.

• 11:06Speaker 01

  Way to go, Sam.

• 11:07Sam Fragoso?

  I'm, so I'm here for.

• 11:08Speaker 01

  Put that on the Wikipedia page.

• 11:10Sam Fragoso?

  I won't do it. Someone else can. So like you didn't have, whatever, whatever was there quietly.

• 11:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:16Sam Fragoso?

  You were not, there was no language around that.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  There was no language. I don't think I ever mentioned it. If I said it to my mom, like if we were like young and we said, you know, you know, hey, I'd love to, I remember seeing like Steve Martin and things like that. And I was thinking that would, that's something I feel like I want to do. And my mom used to say, you don't want to do that. Those people are on drugs. They're all, you know, they're divorced and they're on drugs and their life's a mess. And then years later, when I, in my twenties, when I said, I think I'm going to go to New York and study acting. She said, you don't want to do that. There's people are all on drugs and they're divorced. And I said, you're, you're divorced.

• 11:54Sam Fragoso?

  Your parents got divorced in 1983? You were like 15 years old?

• 11:58Speaker 01

  That sounds right.

• 11:59Sam Fragoso?

  Something like that.

• 11:59Speaker 01

  I've never, I'll take your word for it.

• 12:00Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, I don't know for sure.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  Where'd you come up with the number?

• 12:05Sam Fragoso?

  I have, I know, I have a source, but I don't know if it's right. I don't know if it's right.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  I appreciate that.

• 12:10Sam Fragoso?

  But.

• 12:10Speaker 01

  I'm gonna say it sounds about right.

• 12:11Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 12:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:12Sam Fragoso?

  You know, have you done mushrooms before?

• 12:14Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 12:15Sam Fragoso?

  My analogy is not going to work here.

• 12:16Speaker 01

  Throw that on my Wikipedia page too.

• 12:18Sam Fragoso?

  You've smoked weed before?

• 12:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:20Sam Fragoso?

  Currently?

• 12:22Speaker 01

  Uh, no, no.

• 12:23Sam Fragoso?

  I'm, I'm kind of retired, but.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  Retired, yeah.

• 12:26Sam Fragoso?

  You know, like ever.

• 12:27Speaker 01

  There might be, there might be edibles involved in the, you know, pre-interview edibles.

• 12:31Sam Fragoso?

  Did you?

• 12:32Speaker 01

  Uh, half. It's, it's like microdosing.

• 12:38Speaker 01

  I said, I said, hey, I'm going on Talk Easy with Sam. They said, half.

• 12:44Sam Fragoso?

  For Conan, they said two.

• 12:48Speaker 01

  Listen, what you're experiencing here is, you know, like 20 years of experience and half an edible. And that's why this thing is really singing.

• 12:59Sam Fragoso?

  I wish I took half an edible before this. I don't think I would have made it through the interview, though. I'm not as trained. But when you're on a trip, the worst thing you can do is fight against the current.

• 13:11Speaker 01

  Okay. There's a metaphor for life, I think, not just for mushrooms.

• 13:16Sam Fragoso?

  Which is, which is, I'm gonna keep bringing some things up, and I think if we go together, we're gonna enjoy the journey more.

• 13:22Speaker 01

  Are you disciplining me? Are you saying that I'm not? Have I been, have I been?

• 13:26Sam Fragoso?

  No.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  You wanna go back to my acting method?

• 13:29Sam Fragoso?

  No, no, no. We're gonna bring up David Mamet again? No, we can't. I do wanna know, how was your parents separating for you as a kid? Did that make you wanna like, go to LA more? Just leave Modesto and do something else? Was that, was that challenging for you?

• 13:46Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, of course it's challenging. Divorce sucks for, and you know, there's no upside to divorce. So, you know, you definitely felt the earth move beneath you. You know, we had a pretty solid foundation prior to that. I give my parents, I mean, God, they're the best, but not really. But yeah. No, they did great. I'll tell you, though, I'd always, I do give my dad credit for, he was very much a, you know, you could tell him you wanted to join the, be a circus clown, and he'd be like, you know, you work hard and you put your mind to it, you can be the best circus clown out, you know, alive.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  And after a while, I think that, you hear that enough, it kind of, you start to believe it.

• 14:34Sam Fragoso?

  So with that belief, you go down to USC. You're swimming on the team, and then you major in fine arts. Is that what it is?

• 14:41Speaker 01

  Fine arts, yeah.

• 14:42Sam Fragoso?

  And you were gonna do architecture, but the schedule wouldn't allow for it.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  That's right. I can elaborate on that if you want. I drew all the time as a kid, and so that's just kinda the thing you're known for, is you can draw. But I had no concept of that that was a career choice of any kind, so. My grandfather was really one of these guys on my mother's side was uh, he really was like, there's five professions out there of any that have any worth that, you know, like doctor, lawyer, architect.

• 15:15Sam Fragoso?

  Teacher?

• 15:16Speaker 01

  I think politics, maybe, or and then, I don't know, but there was, there was five. They didn't really sink in. But of all of those, because I love to build and all that stuff, create, be creative, I thought, oh, well, I'll go into architecture. So I showed up on my recruit trip at USC and I met with the dean of the architecture school and he just immediately told me there was no way I could be a member of the team and be an architect student. It was just, it was just physically impossible. And I asked him, as I walked to the architecture school, I said, you know, as we were coming into the building before I came upstairs, there was like, what looked like a gallery and like a ceramic studio. What, what is that down there? And he said, that's the fine art department.

• 15:59Speaker 01

  And I think I may have asked him, you can get a degree in that? You know, he said, yes, it's department downstairs. So I went, I was like, can I go talk? So I went and talked to the dean of the art department. He said they could work around my schedule. And so anyway, off I went. I was in the art department at USC. It was a, just a genius idea. It was a great experience.

• 16:23Sam Fragoso?

  And even then, it's not like you were acting in school plays. You weren't, you weren't doing any of that. I mean, I think your aspiration at the time was to be a talk show host.

• 16:33Speaker 01

  In my senior year, I started exploring, I started, you know, kind of writing down the list of things I've always thought about. And then I, I'd always wanted to act and, and they, I needed an elective, some units I needed to finish my degree. Which I didn't do finish my degree, but I went and I took an acting 101. My wife and I, we, we got married and then I took an acting class at UC Irvine. And I can transfer this. So I took a class and I said, you know, this is fun. What if I did this? You know, because I was thinking about getting my masters in fine art. I'd learned about all these people like Chris Burden and Baldassari. And I was like, this is what I want to do. I thought that would be my, what I'd like to do.

• 17:16Speaker 01

  But I started thinking, oh, I should get a job job. And I started to like, Apply to like advertising, like I'm gonna apply to like Chiat Day down in Venice. And that's where I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be like those guys on um.

• 17:30Sam Fragoso?

  Mad Men?

• 17:30Speaker 01

  Thirty something.

• 17:31Sam Fragoso?

  Thirty something.

• 17:32Speaker 01

  I thought, I was like, oh, I'm gonna be those guys.

• 17:34Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  That's what I'm gonna do with this degree.

• 17:35Sam Fragoso?

  Proto Mad Men.

• 17:36Speaker 01

  And then I woke up one day, I was like, you know, what the fuck are you doing? You're gonna be, so that's when I started saying, I'm gonna try stand up. I'm gonna take an acting, I'm gonna do all this stuff.

• 17:43Sam Fragoso?

  This is the line you've said over and over, that you were trying to stave off a midlife crisis.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  I was, yeah. You know, when you get to college, you start, your parents are midlife and their friends are midlife. And you start seeing that thing of like, you see people who are like, I never wanted to be this. This is not what I wanted to be. And you see how miserable they are. And you see the, the disaster.

• 18:08Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 18:09Speaker 01

  And whether that's true or not, what they're saying, it's a cliche of what you start to hear.

• 18:13Sam Fragoso?

  Right.

• 18:14Speaker 01

  Like, I always wanted to do this other thing, but then this happened and that happened and blah, blah, blah.

• 18:18Sam Fragoso?

  People whose lives, you get the sense that they've stopped making choices long ago.

• 18:22Speaker 01

  There you go. And so I was like, this seems like the time before we take this leap in one direction or another, that I should, you know, go check these things out. And my wife was like, you know what, Tim, just pick one thing.

• 18:38Sam Fragoso?

  So with that, she was willing, your wife was willing to make the leap, get in a car cross country. Do you remember that day when you land in New York and you knock on this acting coach's door? William Esper, who Sam Rockwell had, a whole bunch of people who've come on the show.

• 18:55Speaker 01

  Around the same time she were there.

• 18:56Sam Fragoso?

  Had him.

• 18:58Speaker 01

  I think he was in a, uh, yeah, so in the class I took at UC Irvine was given by, it was like beginning, it was act, beginning acting or whatever. The class was taught by grad students. And I, I talked to that guy, I was like, you know, I'm thinking about doing this. And he had come from, he had studied with Esper.

• 19:20Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 19:20Speaker 01

  And I was like, teacher's really good actor. So, uh, this seems like a good plan. He gave me, I remember I read Stanislavski and I read the Meisner book. And the Meisner book was just really easy to digest. And the Stanislavski book was, was inspiring.

• 19:37Speaker 01

  Because they were taking it very seriously.

• 19:39Sam Fragoso?

  Yes.

• 19:40Speaker 01

  And I honestly, that meant a lot to me because, I'll tell you why. Because this idea of wanting to be an actor, I was embarrassed about and I thought it was a, I was slightly ashamed or like felt like you shouldn't want to be that.

• 19:55Sam Fragoso?

  It was less than being a fine artist.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  It's too frivolous. And I was like, oh, these guys like Bird and Baldassari and were, they were just, they were such an inspiration and uh, seeing like Laurie Anderson videos and all these things were like, that's what I aspired to have a conversation with those kind of people. And so when I read the Stanislavski, I was like, oh, this isn't just like who's the boss. This is like, these people are really taking this shit seriously. So this guy had gone to Bill Esper and I'd read that book. So we drove across the country. I, I went and knocked on their door and said, you know, I'm, I'm here. I want to act. And I met with Bill and um,

• 20:36Sam Fragoso?

  Do you remember that, that knocking on the door?

• 20:39Speaker 01

  Well, I had an appointment, you know, we, you call, you set up an appointment. You gotta go in and have a meeting in order to take their summer courses. And I just showed up. I had no experience, but I'd taken the one class and it, it was a hunch. It seemed like a good idea at the time. I figured I'd give myself, you know, like I was gonna go get my masters for two years. And I was like, you know, I'll just take two years and go study acting and then we'll give it a little time out. We had a deal. My wife, you know, like this is what I'll do and we'll do this for two years and then, I don't know, I think give it a year after that to, you know, see if this makes any sense. And if it seems like a pipe dream, we'll, we'll go back to the ceramics.

• 21:18Sam Fragoso?

  Well, can we talk about how the pipe dream kind of came true?

• 21:23Speaker 01

  It's ridiculous that it worked.

• 21:25Sam Fragoso?

  It's unbelievable.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  It's unbelievable. I mean, it really is. We,

• 21:28Sam Fragoso?

  It's kind of like,

• 21:29Speaker 01

  Comes up a lot at our house.

• 21:29Sam Fragoso?

  What I imagine when you wake up in the morning and go, My luck.

• 21:33Speaker 01

  It's exactly like this. And we're just like, you know, I can't believe it worked.

• 21:38Sam Fragoso?

  Well, let's talk about how it worked after the break.

• 21:41Speaker 01

  All right.

• 21:41Sam Fragoso?

  That's coming up next.

• 21:42Speaker 01

  Deal.

• 21:43Sam Fragoso?

  With Timothy Olyphant. I've come to believe that a trip doesn't really begin when you arrive at the famous landmark. It begins where you wake up. The neighborhood you walk through to get your morning coffee. The streets you wander before you have anywhere else to be. The feeling that even for a few days, you're living in a place instead of just passing through it. That's one of the reasons I've thought about listing my space on Airbnb whenever I'm away. It gives someone visiting Los Angeles the chance to experience a part of the city that I genuinely love. Not just the tourist version, but the everyday one. A neighborhood cafe, a kitchen to cook in, a quiet place to come back to after a long, loud day.

• 22:26Sam Fragoso?

  Those little details can completely shape how you remember a trip. And from my perspective, it's pretty practical, too. If I'm already traveling, listing my space can help offset the cost of my own plans while someone else enjoys a place that feels like home. It's a nice reminder that the best trips aren't only about where you go. They're also about where you stay. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com/host. I think the best clothes you own are probably the ones you spend the least amount of time thinking about. They're just there when you need them. The sweater that goes with everything. The perfect pair of pants or the tee you always reach for first. That's what I've always liked about Quince.

• 23:10Sam Fragoso?

  They focus on everyday staples made with premium materials like organic cotton, merino wool, and 100% Mongolian cashmere. Their cashmere sweaters start at just $60 and everything is designed to be versatile enough to work with what you already own. And now that the temperatures are starting to drop, they also have premium down jackets and classic wool outerwear. Easy layers that can carry you through the fall and into winter. I've had a few of their merino wool all season tees for just over a year now and they've really become my go-to in my wardrobe. The quality was the thing that surprised me when I first tried them out. They're comfortable, easy to layer, and after a year of wearing them regularly, they've held up remarkably well. I use them all the time and would absolutely recommend them.

• 23:55Sam Fragoso?

  Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen, which allows them to price everything 50 to 80% less than similar brands. So you're paying for the quality of the materials rather than a big brand markup. It's not just clothing. Quince brings that same approach to hotel-quality bedding and bath, kitchen essentials, and thoughtfully-designed furniture, well-made pieces for everyday living. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. You can get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Talk Easy. It's really the best way to support the show. Enjoy.

• 24:41Sam Fragoso?

  MUBI is a global film company bringing great cinema to the world and to you. Everything at MUBI is handpicked with an emphasis on visionary filmmakers and movies worth discovering. One new movie is called Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma, from writer-director Jane Seanbrin, who made the film I Saw the TV Glow. The film stars Hannah Einbinder and Gillian Anderson. It follows a young director tasked with resurrecting Camp Miasma, a once-beloved slasher franchise that, after years of sequels, has fallen out of favor. Looking for inspiration, she visits the reclusive actress who starred in the original film. But what begins at an attempt to revive the franchise soon pulls the two women into a blood-soaked world of desire, fear, and delirium.

• 25:25Sam Fragoso?

  It's a world-expanding, genre-bending movie from one of the most distinctive filmmakers working today. Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma is now streaming exclusively on MUBI. You can try MUBI free for 30 days at mubi.com/talkeasy. That's mubi, M-U-B-I dot com slash talkeasy for a whole month of great cinema for free. Coming back, you said once that I realized if you could just knock an interviewer off balance a little bit at hello, it made the interview a little bit easier from that moment forward.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  I don't think that's true.

• 26:03Speaker 01

  Where'd you get that shit?

• 26:04Sam Fragoso?

  Armchair expert.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  He's making that crap up?

• 26:06Sam Fragoso?

  No.

• 26:07Speaker 01

  If you could just knock an interviewer off balance a little bit at hello, it just made the interview a little bit easier from that moment forth. I didn't mean serious interviewers like you. You can't knock you off balance. Your list of guests, this is a, this is a bit of a snooze day for you.

• 26:23Sam Fragoso?

  It's not. No.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  Thank you. I was fishing.

• 26:26Sam Fragoso?

  I know. I know.

• 26:28Speaker 01

  You get nervous when you come in for these?

• 26:30Sam Fragoso?

  Absolutely.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  I'm not saying today, but do you get like on a?

• 26:32Sam Fragoso?

  Absolutely get nervous. I was so.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  Which ones make you the most nervous?

• 26:35Sam Fragoso?

  The ones where I have to interview actors from Justified. I mean, it's just so.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  Don't try to keep this on track.

• 26:40Sam Fragoso?

  No, as you're slowly coming around to the idea of becoming an actor, you, you performed standup at the Boston Comedy Club, which was not actually in Boston, but in Greenwich Village in New York.

• 26:53Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 26:54Sam Fragoso?

  Now, I have an understanding that you remember your tight five.

• 27:00Speaker 01

  No way.

• 27:00Sam Fragoso?

  You've never shared your tight five, so I'm gonna offer a solution for you.

• 27:05Speaker 01

  This is the most offensive thing I've ever been asked.

• 27:08Sam Fragoso?

  I think a tight two from your tight five, a little adaptation? And if you don't, I will have to quote some of the things from your act.

• 27:15Speaker 01

  By the way, if you have it, I wanna hear it. I wanna hear it. Let's go.

• 27:21Sam Fragoso?

  If you love me and you know it, clap your hands.

• 27:22Speaker 01

  Opened with that. Opened that with that for a while.

• 27:25Sam Fragoso?

  Pornography is art. Does it match the drapes? Furniture?

• 27:30Speaker 01

  It's the difference between art and pornography.

• 27:31Sam Fragoso?

  Uh huh.

• 27:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 27:33Sam Fragoso?

  Why are you making me do your act?

• 27:34Speaker 01

  Listen.

• 27:35Sam Fragoso?

  You come on stage.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  Right here to perform.

• 27:37Sam Fragoso?

  David Tell, David Tell's watching. You, you walk on on stage.

• 27:41Speaker 01

  David Tell is all, it was a very memorable few months of my life before acting classes. It wasn't for me, but it was, but it was.

• 27:51Sam Fragoso?

  How did you know it wasn't for you?

• 27:53Speaker 01

  Well, the hours aren't great. I also thought at the time, like nineties, I thought, well, this is just gonna lead to a sitcom. And this best case scenario, I just thought I should go learn to act.

• 28:05Sam Fragoso?

  Learn something else.

• 28:07Speaker 01

  I thought I wanted to be like, the, there were actors, comedic actors that were.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  On my mind, and this isn't the way they went, kind of thing.

• 28:18Sam Fragoso?

  Who, who were those?

• 28:19Speaker 01

  When I first started, um, there's the usual suspects like Pacino and, and De Niro, Meryl Streep, and, um, and then there were people like Nick Cage or Gary Oldman, you know, watching things like Sid and Nancy and then Pick Up Your Ears and, and just being, you know, all those Lynch movies and those, those characters. So I just, those were, those were on my mind.

• 28:47Sam Fragoso?

  I'm thinking about that thing you said earlier, how you thought of acting as like almost a frivolous profession. The other side of it that I want to talk about is, uh, on the set of Danny Boyle's A Life Less Ordinary.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:02Sam Fragoso?

  Opposite Holly Hunter.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:04Sam Fragoso?

  It seems to me that something happens on that set that changes your course a little bit.

• 29:09Speaker 01

  Well, it was the first time I saw on camera, on a film set or a TV set, um, what looked like, you know, artistry, what looked like magic and effortlessness and so unself, not in any way self-conscious and open, and I just need, never seen it before.

• 29:34Sam Fragoso?

  What happened?

• 29:35Speaker 01

  We were just, we, you know, I'm, I had this like one scene with Holly Hunter and, um, she had a speech that she was giving to me and, um, when the camera was on her, she would just like, if there was a noise off camera, she would stare at it in the middle of her take, or the wind picked up, she'd pu- hold her, close her eyes and put her face, you know, towards the wind and let her hair kind of blow back as she was talking to me. And I was like, you know, she, does she know she's on camera? Like, you know, I, all I could think of, she's not doing it right. You know, like she's just open to whatever happens. And, uh, I-

• 30:15Speaker 01

  I was just sort of mesmerized by it. I just, because at the time, I was so self-conscious and so self-aware of my performance and in my head and nervous. Anyway, I remember talking to her about it, you know, what are you doing? What was that? And it just made quite an impression on me. I

• 30:34Sam Fragoso?

  But what did she say?

• 30:36Speaker 01

  Well, she just told me that, you know, she was just, it was easier for her rather than to block all these things out, just to accept everything, you know, deny nothing and accept everything. Didn't matter if the camera was on you or, you know, your eye, you know, and she was so present.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  I don't know, there was just a

• 30:59Sam Fragoso?

  A presence of mind.

• 31:00Speaker 01

  A bravery to, to it, to make yourself that vulnerable and that sort of willing to just embarrass yourself. You know, I've been chasing that ever since.

• 31:10Sam Fragoso?

  When you say you are self-conscious and like in your head, when does that change for you?

• 31:16Speaker 01

  I don't, it's not elusive. I feel like, you know, I feel like the last years, I don't know, 10 years, maybe. It feels like I've got to a place like that. This job, lucky, like I've seen some stuff, you know, going to ADR, going for post, and I've seen the scenes and I'm like, go there. That's what I was looking for. I'm like at this place where it feels, I'm just really there, present with Anya and those scenes or with Annette Bening. Talk about Annette. Annette Bening is one of those people. It's magic, watching her. Magic. Take to take. No idea what she's gonna do. And there are actors who do take

• 32:01Speaker 01

  to take, you have no idea what they're gonna do, but some of those takes might be like, you're not in the right movie. Sure, that's different.

• 32:08Sam Fragoso?

  I would love to have some idea of what you're doing.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  That's different, but yeah, what sandbox are you playing in? But it sneaks up. It's not every take. It's not every, every scene. Definitely, there's a moment, there's a scene in this show, one of the latter two episodes, where in the scene.

• 32:27Speaker 01

  I'm so proud of the scene, but there's a line in there and I'm like, that's one of those moments where you were trying to put a circle through a square peg and you just kept like insisting on it, but it wasn't there, you know, and that's that will irk me.

• 32:44Sam Fragoso?

  And guess what? We actually have that clip right here.

• 32:46Speaker 01

  See if you can find the moment. Hey, let's spot it.

• 32:48Sam Fragoso?

  I know. It's amazing you're saying this because I was thinking one of your earliest performances I remember you in is playing that kind of like sarcastic drug dealer in Go. And you said back then, quote, "I hope young actors starting out are paying attention. Work really fucking hard and then act like you didn't." Is that how you approached that early work when you were starting out?

• 33:12Speaker 01

  As soon as you said that, that's a quote from way back then. I'm like, what are you talking about, dude? You were not that good. Who are you giving fucking lessons to? It's literally, I've seen that performance just recently. Let me tell you something. I did something I haven't done ever. We were watching, is it on like Criterion, it's Netflix? Go is on Netflix.

• 33:36Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 33:37Speaker 01

  And my wife says, let's watch it. And I was like, are you serious? She's like, are you, you know, because I thought she was joking with me, but she's like, no, come on, let's watch it.

• 33:44Sam Fragoso?

  Because you don't usually suggest your own performances.

• 33:46Speaker 01

  I'm not. There are movies I've been in that I've never seen, let alone seen twice. So this movie, I, many times, many times, we usually, it's a, that's a quarterly viewing at the Olyphant House.

• 34:00Sam Fragoso?

  I'm number four.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  I am number four times I've seen that movie.

• 34:05Sam Fragoso?

  So stupid.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  You're welcome. People right now are listening. You perhaps are having this feeling, oh, he did do comedy. I can see it now. You're like, oh, I just looked it up in the research. I said, this doesn't make sense, but now you're like, there you go. If you love me and you know it, clap your hands. I thought was a Steve Martin, like that was my best version of Steve Martin as a young lad. He was such an inspiration to me.

• 34:44Sam Fragoso?

  So you'd come on stage.

• 34:47Speaker 01

  David Tell, ladies and gentlemen. Whatever, Tim, whatever. I'd go up and then I'd just open with, if you love me and you know, clap your hands. Thank you. And then I'd just go from, I'd just keep going, go for a while. If I stuck with it, I think I'd go for a long time. That would be the real, like, be the brave.

• 35:09Sam Fragoso?

  It's odd because it does seem like you were loved by your parents growing up.

• 35:13Speaker 01

  I believe a guest on your show once said, no one with a happy childhood ever went into show business.

• 35:20Speaker 03

  And I said at one point, I think it's true. Nobody with a happy childhood ever went into show business.

• 35:25Speaker 01

  Quoting Dave.

• 35:26Sam Fragoso?

  Look at you.

• 35:28Speaker 01

  I think Dave still listens to the show. Is that possible?

• 35:30Sam Fragoso?

  He sponsors it.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  Figure it out.

• 35:31Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, he sponsors it.

• 35:33Speaker 01

  A big fan.

• 35:34Sam Fragoso?

  He's a big fan, even after he walked out.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

• 35:39Sam Fragoso?

  So when you're not performing comedy for your wife, you're making her watch Go at your house.

• 35:44Speaker 01

  It was her idea. Let's not confuse the listener.

• 35:47Sam Fragoso?

  Leading the witness.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  I will say, and I say this hesitantly because our friend David once said,

• 35:55Speaker 01

  when someone tells you, I liked your performance, the only thing to say is thank you. You don't say, oh, you should have come last night. It was even better.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  So I hesitate to say this, so take it with a grain of salt, but I can see the work. You can see the work. You can see the, I was watching it and I was like, it's a really good take. I think you did every take like that.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? It's really good, but I'm pretty sure you were delivering that same pitch every take, which is fine, is great. I don't, it holds up, but that's, you know, that's not,

• 36:32Speaker 01

  that's not, what I've found over the years is that's not where the fun is.

• 36:37Speaker 04

  It's what it looks like, okay? I mean, it sort of is actually, but it's complicated. Not really.

• 36:44Speaker 04

  I know I fucked up. Okay, please. I can make it up to you. I'm the last fucking person you should be expecting a favor from. I have the money. I have more than I owe you. So now you're an entrepreneur.

• 36:59Sam Fragoso?

  Speaking of David Mamet, I don't know if you remember this movie Heist?

• 37:04Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, of course.

• 37:05Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 37:05Speaker 01

  I think of a man smarter than me and I ask myself, what would he do?

• 37:09Sam Fragoso?

  That's what I was gonna say.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  Really?

• 37:10Sam Fragoso?

  Yep.

• 37:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure, I can love that quote. That's my acting technique.

• 37:14Sam Fragoso?

  I wrote, now, I'm not saying you're not smart, was how I wrote the question. But, but who, who comes to mind with that quote?

• 37:25Speaker 01

  Milch, I feel like, has been a source of inspiration ever since, you know, he walked into my life, you know, it was just such a fruitful, creative environment. It was so spontaneous and lived in and he was just, he was really special to be around and overwhelming at the same time, but-

• 37:45Sam Fragoso?

  What do you mean?

• 37:45Speaker 01

  Well, he's a big personality, intimidating, he's a force of nature. His work is operating on such a genius sort of intellect that sometimes you feel intimidated to, you know, engage in the collaboration.

• 38:01Sam Fragoso?

  And so how did you find your way in?

• 38:03Speaker 01

  After the first season, I was at, it was a very, the big moment as a, for me, as an actor, we were at the rap party and they were showing the gag reel and I realized I was hardly in it.

• 38:17Sam Fragoso?

  The gag reel of the first season of Deadwood?

• 38:19Speaker 01

  The first season of Deadwood. And I realized I was not having enough fun. I was trying so hard, you know, to get it right.

• 38:27Sam Fragoso?

  He was a big preparer.

• 38:29Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 38:29Sam Fragoso?

  That's my understanding. And he would prepare and write and write up until the last minute. He'd give you pages the night before.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  The day of.

• 38:36Sam Fragoso?

  The day of.

• 38:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:37Sam Fragoso?

  He'd done all this research-

• 38:38Speaker 01

  On the moment, at the moment, he'd write a half a page while you're rehearsing.

• 38:42Sam Fragoso?

  And then you said that he would, he would do this thing of just letting it go.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  I think he just, you know, he had a clear grasp. Well, first of all, he went in and pitched a show to HBO about like the Roman Empire or something.

• 38:58Speaker 01

  And they were like, you know, we already have a show called Rome. And so they're like, could you do a Western? And he's like, sure. You know, like it literally.

• 39:07Sam Fragoso?

  A Western of the Rome story.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  He wanted to do a show about how man governs himself without law. And he found that theme instead of doing a show about Rome, because that was already one on TV. He found that same theme, that opportunity in this, in, you know, Deadwood, South Dakota, in the 18, late 1800s. And I just love that, that willingness to pivot, say, sure, but still write his, I'm sure it was the same story and the same ideas he wanted to explore. And I think he was just willing to do lots and lots of research and really have a grasp and understanding of that time. And then be willing to say, you know, I don't buy it.

• 39:53Speaker 01

  That's not the way I think it went down. You know, I've been in bar fights and this is what happens. Or, you know, I've, I've been in rooms where people are playing poker and someone got shot and you don't remember the guy's fucking hand, you know? And so he was just willing to use his, trust his own life experience and his instincts and, and, and to see where the story wanted to go.

• 40:16Sam Fragoso?

  Did you bring that ethos to Justified?

• 40:20Speaker 01

  I felt like the thing that I'm sure much of the chagrin of, of everybody trying to run the show. Because I'd seen Milch and his willingness to see where the story wants to go, where the scene wants to go and do things on the fly. I felt like I showed up to the Justified set, you know? And if someone had a really, if there was a scene that was like, still wasn't fully baked, need a little more time in the oven. And we were shooting it tomorrow and, you know, the grip said something that seemed like a great idea. I, I was just like, guys, there's the, that's what we need to do. And, you know, and they'd say, we're not, we shoot that tomorrow. I was like, that's nothing. I've seen it, I've seen it done on the day. I've seen it done.

• 41:05Speaker 01

  We got till tomorrow. I just thought that's where the fun is. That's where, that's where you want to live. You want to live in that, that space.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  If something's not working, just keep poking at it till you run out of time. You know? I'll be the fucking sheriff.

• 41:22Speaker 05

  Startin' when?

• 41:24Speaker 01

  Startin' now.

• 41:26Speaker 05

  You have the tin?

• 41:27Speaker 01

  I do.

• 41:29Speaker 05

  Produce it.

• 41:37Speaker 05

  On the tin.

• 41:40Speaker 01

  I know where it goes.

• 41:48Sam Fragoso?

  In the time that you're making Justified.

• 41:50Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 41:51Sam Fragoso?

  Opposite Walton Goggins. I read that you would show up to set on your off days. And you said once in the New York Times that anyone not willing to dig into the material is, quote, "of absolutely no use to me."

• 42:04Speaker 01

  Sounds like a jerk.

• 42:06Sam Fragoso?

  Sounds like someone who cares.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  You know, when they put your face on the poster, you feel responsible. So.

• 42:11Sam Fragoso?

  So tell me what happened.

• 42:12Speaker 01

  But you know, here's the thing. When they give you one of these shows and they make you the star of it, you can, um, it's just, uh, it's, it's a lot of, so it's a, you know, someone, someone opened the door and they, they let you in and you get to play. It's like playing in the sandbox. You just get to, you get to have a voice. Uh, and what a shame to, uh, I thought, to, uh, not exercise it. It's, you know, it's all the fun's in the kitchen.

• 42:39Sam Fragoso?

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:40Speaker 01

  It really is fun. So.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, did I show up on all my off days? No, but, uh, but it was, it was fun. And if you're trying to work with, you know, the writer, the director on the set to fix something for the next two, not fix it, but try to take it to another place. You know, you, you gotta show up.

• 43:01Sam Fragoso?

  You're talking about making it better.

• 43:02Speaker 01

  Well, here's what I didn't want to do. You don't want to also just show up and when you're shooting the scene, go, this doesn't work. Who wrote this?

• 43:09Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, and complain.

• 43:10Speaker 01

  That's just a nightmare, you know?

• 43:12Sam Fragoso?

  For everyone.

• 43:13Speaker 01

  So I don't want to be that guy. But it really is just so much fun. And, you know, once you come up with an idea and you, you see it manifest, you know, built and come to life and it plays. I mean, it's, you kind of create a monster.

• 43:29Sam Fragoso?

  It played pretty well.

• 43:30Speaker 01

  And we had a good time. It was a collaborative effort. We had a really good time.

• 43:35Sam Fragoso?

  Should we take a listen? This is from Justified.

• 43:37Speaker 06

  Did you not wake up this morning thinking today was another opportunity to mess up some bad guy's day? I did.

• 43:44Speaker 05

  A man who speaks out of both sides of his mouth deserves to have.

• 43:48Speaker 06

  Have it permanently shut.

• 43:49Speaker 05

  You can come after me if you want, but it'll be the last thing you ever do. I promise you that.

• 43:53Speaker 06

  You need to calm down, Ryan. Give me one reason why I shouldn't come up there and kick the living shit out of you. I'll give you 15 reasons in the mag and one in the chamber. You better send a chopper here as fast as you can.

• 44:06Speaker 06

  Send an ambulance. I don't give a shit about what you've said.

• 44:14Speaker 06

  I'm an outlaw.

• 44:15Sam Fragoso?

  I was thinking justified is is inspired by shows like Rockford Files. And as we get around to the end of the show. How do you?

• 44:29Sam Fragoso?

  How do you feel about it? Because I heard you describe it as like, you know, through Elmore Leonard, it was your James Bond of sorts where like you got to keep revisiting it time and time again, but but something was new each each iteration.

• 44:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I felt like the tricky part about the show was in its when we were doing the run of the show, the concern was like, how many times can you keep? You know, killing people every year and then feeling like you're still trying to tell a long narrative and where we just start to lose authen- anything authentic. What's hilarious is that I'm also aware that while sometimes I would stay up late at night trying to figure out like, how can we do something we haven't done before on this show where I don't just shoot this guy? And, you know, we keep it creative and we keep ourselves, you know, excited and it just yeah, just lost a lot of sleep, you know, a number of us did really trying to make that work.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  And and then, you know, you go to the airport and people are like, hey, you're that dude in that show. I love it when you shoot those people. And I'm like, why? Why? Why lose sleep? I just, they love it when I shoot the people.

• 45:41Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 45:42Speaker 01

  I just should have kept doing the show for as long as they would have had me. I just, I don't know why we stopped. I was like, every airport I I go through, I'm like, someone basically comes up and reminds me, you idiot. Should have never stopped. You should have just kept shooting people.

• 45:57Sam Fragoso?

  Do you really believe that?

• 45:58Speaker 01

  Which part?

• 45:59Sam Fragoso?

  That you really should have never stopped.

• 46:01Speaker 01

  No, but it gives me perspective.

• 46:03Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 46:03Speaker 01

  As much as I I'm like every actor, you know, complaining about what's the what's next and you don't know what's gonna be next and

• 46:11Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, this is the whining version.

• 46:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I realize that is that's that's part of what attracted me to to the work to begin with.

• 46:20Sam Fragoso?

  Now, despite you coming after my research and and getting facts wrong, I want to do a section or a segment called the fact check.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 46:29Sam Fragoso?

  And I want to go over a couple of things, make sure we clear the air.

• 46:32Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 46:32Sam Fragoso?

  Your late uncle was in a band called The Pineapples.

• 46:35Speaker 01

  Fact.

• 46:36Sam Fragoso?

  Their claim to fame is my understanding is that they went up against Creedence Clearwater in a battle of the bands.

• 46:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:43Sam Fragoso?

  And they won.

• 46:44Speaker 01

  Yes, my uncle loved to tell me that story. I know the story.

• 46:49Sam Fragoso?

  What happened?

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Wait a minute, but hold on, I gotta I gotta ask you this, cuz I I've already told you how much I appreciate the work you've done. My question is, did you get that because I've ever I've said it or you got that had? I've never talked about this, correct? Is that right?

• 47:06Sam Fragoso?

  You've talked about it.

• 47:07Speaker 01

  I have?

• 47:07Sam Fragoso?

  Mm hmm, just once.

• 47:09Speaker 01

  Wow, interesting. Yeah, my uncle, my mom and grew up in kind of Oakland Berkeley area and and yeah, he was in a band.

• 47:23Sam Fragoso?

  Back in 2010, you told The Guardian that you took the role of the villain in Live Free or Die Hard for, quote, purely financial reasons. What other parts did you accept for the same reason?

• 47:35Speaker 01

  Well, I geez, I've taken well, first of all, I take all my the parts for financial reasons with the exception of maybe two. Listen, I one of my favorite things about acting is

• 47:51Sam Fragoso?

  The money.

• 47:51Speaker 01

  Is is that they pay you to do it. And so all of the jobs I've ever taken, there is a financial component that I'm I'm quite happy about.

• 48:04Sam Fragoso?

  I have a few options for you.

• 48:06Speaker 01

  Let's hear it.

• 48:07Sam Fragoso?

  Hitman?

• 48:10Speaker 01

  Great film.

• 48:11Sam Fragoso?

  Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3, in which you give a voice.

• 48:15Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, listening to my son play that game and his dad's like, watch your six, watch your six.

• 48:26Speaker 01

  You know what?

• 48:26Sam Fragoso?

  That's amazing.

• 48:27Speaker 01

  He turned out fine. He turned, he's a great, he's a great young man.

• 48:30Sam Fragoso?

  I've heard he's great.

• 48:31Speaker 01

  I think it's fine.

• 48:32Sam Fragoso?

  Uh, Bubble Guppies?

• 48:34Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. By the way, no money.

• 48:37Sam Fragoso?

  Free.

• 48:37Speaker 01

  Uh, well, okay, I see your point. Here's the thing that I'm gonna start whining about.

• 48:44Sam Fragoso?

  The tax write-off?

• 48:45Speaker 01

  No, the animation, they, every one of these shows, this is, let me tell you why you, there's so many cartoons out there, kids, cuz they are underpaying the actors.

• 48:53Sam Fragoso?

  This is my favorite thing, is during the interview, you have wanted an audience there so bad.

• 48:58Speaker 01

  Every now and then.

• 48:58Sam Fragoso?

  And you keep looking.

• 49:00Speaker 01

  Sam, that is where they are.

• 49:01Sam Fragoso?

  I'm aware, but it really feels like I'm not enough to help you out. I wish, I wish I could.

• 49:06Speaker 01

  Listen, I just, let me tell you something. I had the honor and pleasure to do a, a play with the, the great Kenny Lonergan. And, um.

• 49:16Sam Fragoso?

  God, he's good.

• 49:17Speaker 01

  So he says to me, cuz it was this amazing play, very dramatic, also funny, and, and he gave me this big speech one night about, um, we were talking about the tone or something about the comedy, and he's like, listen, fuck the comedy, fuck the, there's no difference between drama and comedy. And I think it's the first time I really heard this, at least in a passionate way, with like, it felt like it went into my soul, where a, a genius, and standing in front of me saying, there's no difference between drama and comedy, period, nothing, forget it, just do the scene, right? And then the next day, we did it, and, uh, he said, there's a joke there, I think you're missing.

• 50:02Speaker 01

  And I said, I said, you fucker, you just gave me this whole speech about no difference between drama and comedy, and he says, no, that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying the truth of the scene. Is the audience is when they laugh, that's the moment. And if you don't take that moment in, then you're not being truthful because they're part of this.

• 50:26Sam Fragoso?

  You're right, and I should have said more.

• 50:28Speaker 01

  And when you're, there's a camera.

• 50:30Sam Fragoso?

  There's a camera.

• 50:30Speaker 01

  The one thing I've learned in the 20 something years of show business, Sam.

• 50:34Sam Fragoso?

  That one and that one.

• 50:35Speaker 01

  Is that's where the audience is, they're in there.

• 50:36Sam Fragoso?

  They're actually both yours.

• 50:37Speaker 01

  They're in there, and so you gotta, you gotta play to them, they're right there.

• 50:42Sam Fragoso?

  I gotta remember.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  Well, these kids, all the kids watch, uh, watch these things on YouTube more than they listen to them.

• 50:47Sam Fragoso?

  It's funny, that sounds like a, a, a piece of advice that Lawrence Kasdan gave you once as well.

• 50:53Speaker 01

  One of my favorite notes, Kasdan said, uh, uh, I finished it, a couple takes of the scene, he said, uh,

• 51:03Speaker 01

  great, uh, Tim, there's a joke in that scene, um, we wouldn't notice it because you keep missing it. You keep fucking it up. He goes, you wanna, you wanna give it another shot or should we just move on? And, uh, same note, I guess that is a similar note to Kenny.

• 51:19Sam Fragoso?

  That's kind of the note you're giving me too, and I think it's good.

• 51:22Speaker 01

  Listen, I'm just saying, you put up some cameras, which means you got some people in there.

• 51:26Sam Fragoso?

  We're getting rolling.

• 51:27Speaker 01

  And so every now and then, just give them a little wink.

• 51:29Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 51:30Speaker 01

  You can pull off the wink. I wouldn't use that eye, I'd, I'd go with the other.

• 51:34Sam Fragoso?

  Can I tell you?

• 51:34Speaker 01

  Can you wink with both eyes?

• 51:35Sam Fragoso?

  I cannot. So if that wasn't good, it's not gonna get better.

• 51:40Speaker 01

  I think you could, it'll get better, even if you can't change eyes. I feel like it can get better.

• 51:46Sam Fragoso?

  I mean, I, I, we're definitely gonna cut the wink. I mean, mine, not yours.

• 51:50Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, you can't cut that, come on.

• 51:52Sam Fragoso?

  In 2022, on the set of Justified, um, City Primeval.

• 51:57Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 51:58Sam Fragoso?

  You were filming in Chicago.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 52:00Sam Fragoso?

  And I read that, that you were shot at.

• 52:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:03Sam Fragoso?

  During production.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  There were shots around us, they weren't aiming for us, um, but there was a lot of shots.

• 52:09Sam Fragoso?

  When you were under fire, did you imagine that that would help or hurt your Emmy chances?

• 52:15Speaker 01

  I thought I could have done a little bit more to make that available to the press.

• 52:20Sam Fragoso?

  More story.

• 52:21Speaker 01

  Of what, absolutely. Yeah, that was a, that was a crazy day. It was a crazy day.

• 52:27Sam Fragoso?

  What, what happened?

• 52:29Speaker 01

  Uh, we were shooting late, late, late, uh, uh, in a park, uh, not a, not a good neighborhood and, um, and we started hearing gunshots, um, going off on the other side of the park, you know, immediately was like, AD was great, local Chicago guy was amazing. He just said, guys, those are gunshots. You know, it's a few blocks away, but so we still need to everybody to take cover kind of thing. Um, and they just kept going and then, uh, they were, you know, like, uh, you know, semi-automatic, automatic, you know, but that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that. And then you start hearing the cars take off.

• 53:10Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm.

• 53:11Speaker 01

  And it was a lot of

• 53:14Speaker 01

  I mean, and then it was like, you know, they're coming around the park. Now they're coming down the street. And we're all, we're all running for cover. Yeah, yeah. They fired hundreds of rounds as they went right. I watched those cars go by. It was so surreal because I'm in my, I'm in like, you know, Rayland Givens wardrobe and the hat.

• 53:39Sam Fragoso?

  Stetson.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  Um, fucking crazy. I thought for sure I was gonna get shot.

• 53:43Sam Fragoso?

  Did you?

• 53:44Speaker 01

  Oh my God, you're just standing there. It's all around you, hundreds of, I mean, this is rapid fire. You just figures one of them's gotta hit. I mean, you figure like any second now I'm gonna feel some kind of sting. Um, anyway, it's crazy. What a fucked up day. Took a couple of days off. I mean, the crew, it was, at the time, it was a little gnarly.

• 54:08Sam Fragoso?

  It seems, I was making a dumb joke, but it seems like a lot.

• 54:11Speaker 01

  It was intense. Yeah, I, no joke. I mean, there was crew members who wouldn't, uh, there were people under the car and when it was over and you're telling them to come out and they wouldn't move. It was, people were pretty shook up. And even the cops, I ran into one of the cops later. Just happened to be going down the street and there was a guy came out, um, from a diner. And said he was working on the set, he's cop and he's working on the set on his off day, you know, just like, hey, this will be chill. And I was like, let me ask you something.

• 54:43Speaker 01

  How intense was that? He goes, oh, no, we've been through some shit, buddy. We went through, that was crazy. Yeah, we took a couple of days before anyone wanted to go back to work.

• 54:51Sam Fragoso?

  On that set, your daughter was acting, right? She was, she was, she, she played a part in the show. I'm not a father, but I, I have.

• 55:00Speaker 01

  I was about to say a smart ass joke, like, well, that's what she said she was doing, but I didn't think it was that great.

• 55:04Sam Fragoso?

  You're allowed to do whatever you want.

• 55:05Speaker 01

  I was like, honey, you call that acting.

• 55:09Speaker 01

  You're grounded.

• 55:10Sam Fragoso?

  You, would you ground her? Would that be against SAG rules?

• 55:14Speaker 01

  You know what? That's a good question. And by the way, perhaps I should come up in the next meeting. You know, a certain level in the call sheet, you could ground people. You know what I mean?

• 55:24Sam Fragoso?

  I heard you tried to ground Walton Goggins a couple of times on Justified.

• 55:28Speaker 01

  It's not true. He's, that man's a gem. Listen, uh, it was, uh, my daughter, working with my daughter. Yes, it was a, um, just a wonderful, wonderful experience.

• 55:38Sam Fragoso?

  Um, the next thing you have going on is, uh, The Adventures of Cliff Booth.

• 55:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:45Sam Fragoso?

  Which comes from a part that you played in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.

• 55:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:49Sam Fragoso?

  And, um, I want to play a clip from a scene, you opposite of Leonardo DiCaprio.

• 55:54Speaker 06

  I heard you pushing Lancer pretty hard, but Lancer's got money.

• 56:01Speaker 06

  At some point, he's gonna hire some guns and push back.

• 56:14Speaker 06

  Line, line, line, line, line.

• 56:15Sam Fragoso?

  Maybe he already has.

• 56:19Speaker 06

  Maybe, god damn it, I fucked this whole thing up.

• 56:24Sam Fragoso?

  When Tarantino wants the crew to come to set, I've heard that he plays Aretha Franklin's Chain of Fools to summon them.

• 56:33Speaker 01

  Fact, um, he did when I was there.

• 56:36Sam Fragoso?

  Uh huh.

• 56:37Speaker 01

  And I don't know, I assume he did, he does it all the time, but you know, that's, that's what he did when I was there.

• 56:42Sam Fragoso?

  So in that take, you know, you're sitting around at this table.

• 56:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:45Sam Fragoso?

  It keeps swinging around over and over and DiCaprio's losing his mind. Playing an actor falling apart on a set.

• 56:55Sam Fragoso?

  Like, I kept watching it going, how did you stay in the Holly Hunter way of staying in the present?

• 57:03Speaker 01

  Oh my.

• 57:04Sam Fragoso?

  How did you like stay there without laughing? Cause I laugh every time I watch this.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  This is another Kenny Lonergan thing. When I was doing that play, it was, uh, there was two scenes in particular that, oh, it was so hard not to, not to break. And I was doing these, there was Adely Clemens and I had this scene every night. People would be just laughing so much and it was, it was, you know, we tripped into it one night where you could see his bust a little bit. And Kenny gave us such a talk, you know, about how you think they enjoy it, like they, they enjoy it when it happens, but, but, but you don't want it, don't give it to them. Don't give it to them.

• 57:53Speaker 01

  And, and, and he goes, it's bet, and anyway, so.

• 57:56Sam Fragoso?

  And you took that to mean what?

• 57:58Speaker 01

  He's not wrong. Like, you know, when, when, you know, people watch Saturday Night Live and they see people bust up, they're like, that's kind of the fun part is watching them bust up. But when you see Damon do that, whatever that was a few weeks ago, and never break. I used to have all my buddies to hang out with. PJ, Toby, Squeak, Gang Bang Greg, Dr. William Cosby. That's, that's special. That, then you're watching like a really special comedic performance. And so, yeah, it's fun when you see people crack up, but when you see that, I think, I find myself going, oh, what? That's so good.

• 58:42Speaker 01

  I mean, you see how hard they're working, but you also see their willingness to like, they're just playing.

• 58:47Sam Fragoso?

  Just to let it go.

• 58:48Speaker 01

  They just let it go.

• 58:49Sam Fragoso?

  Well, that's what I wanted to ask you before we go is like Milch, David Milch on Deadwood.

• 58:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:55Sam Fragoso?

  Who, who you talked about would do all this research, all this work, and then get there and go, but that's not good anymore. Someone like David Fincher, historically, has been known to work in a way that sounds like the opposite, like takes after takes after takes, everything in the exact spot. I don't know if there's a lot of letting go, you tell me if I'm wrong, but I'm thinking about this, this movie of yours that you have coming out. And, and I'm curious about how you creatively kind of dialed into that, because it sounds different than the Milch method and what you brought to Justified, etc.

• 59:32Speaker 01

  I remember years ago, way back when, hearing the Fincher stories and thinking, fuck that, you know, just took offense to it.

• 59:40Sam Fragoso?

  And why did you take offense to it?

• 59:43Speaker 01

  Because it sounded grueling, it sounded unnecessary, it sounded like, like it was some sort of power move and, you know, breaking down the actor and I felt like you, you know, it was easy to say, you know, I'll break myself down, thank you very much, you know what I mean, that kind of thing, like I do my, I did my, somewhere along the line, you get to a place, at least I felt like I got to a place where I'd show up to set and if I felt like I was getting a lot of notes early on, I was like, you know, I, I did my homework too, and so, you know, let me show you and then you have, so I had this, when I read those stories about him years ago, I remember feeling that attitude, like,

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  you know, whatever it was, a few months ago, showing up on, I couldn't wait to get to set, I couldn't wait to do the 20 takes, I couldn't, I was like, you want to go 20 takes? I'll go 20 takes, it goes many, it's, it's a ball.

• 1:00:39Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:40Speaker 01

  You're basically just saying, you don't need to come in for dinner, just keep playing, that's, that's, that's all you dream about.

• 1:00:45Sam Fragoso?

  Is that that competitive swimmer in you?

• 1:00:47Speaker 01

  No, it's a, it's the kid, it's the, it's child's play, it's just like, when you're out in the yard with your buddies, the last thing you want to hear is like, it's time to, you know, it's time to go.

• 1:01:00Sam Fragoso?

  It's the canal kid in you, okay.

• 1:01:03Speaker 01

  It's a kid along the canal. It's every kid. Come on. And why, why sign up for this job if you're not gonna tap into that? So I think that the challenge is to not see it any other way. That my experience of, of, of working with him, because despite that attitude, it gets a little crazy.

• 1:01:24Sam Fragoso?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  It gets to a point where you're like, cause you, cause you've spent years and years uh, with the understanding that once, when you do a good take, people say, great, let's move on.

• 1:01:37Sam Fragoso?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  And uh, it takes some rejiggering if you do a really, what you thought was a really great take. And someone says, let's move on 20 more times. Because after a while, you're like, it's easily to program yourself as saying, Jesus, am I, what am I not getting?

• 1:01:54Sam Fragoso?

  Right.

• 1:01:54Speaker 01

  But if you, but if you take those glasses off and put on some other lenses and those lenses are like, we're just gonna keep scratching. We're gonna keep digging. And, and I don't know, let's see what we find. And it doesn't matter if it was good after three takes. We're gonna keep scratching. And so you just gotta, I, I, I had a ball and he was a ton of fun. And I didn't find it disciplinary or constricting in any way. The hard, the hardest thing where it felt like it was, was falling prey to thinking you somehow didn't get it right. Um, or that you, you know, weren't doing a good job because he was asking, it's so hard to

• 1:02:35Speaker 01

  rejigger everything that feels like, well, if he's, if I'm having to do this 20 times, I must suck.

• 1:02:41Sam Fragoso?

  How could the 19 times be good?

• 1:02:42Speaker 01

  But we're gonna do that. I have to, I would do like two takes. And I was like, hey, uh, can I get one more?

• 1:02:52Sam Fragoso?

  You told him that?

• 1:02:53Speaker 01

  One more, oh, oh, first take, first take, cut. And I said, uh, hey, can I just get one more? Just for me?

• 1:03:00Sam Fragoso?

  Before you print, can we just do?

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  Just one for fun?

• 1:03:02Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:02Speaker 01

  One for fun. Now that we've got it. Cause you know, I go around on sets going, second takes for safety, you know? That's what I, it's my favorite thing to say on set. Check it.

• 1:03:13Sam Fragoso?

  After asking for the milkshake, that's, that's right there.

• 1:03:16Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:03:17Sam Fragoso?

  When you came back with, with the justified season, there was a lot of, and I was not aware of this because I, I don't know, I don't think I watched the show when it came out. I was in high school, I think. I'm so sorry, but you were fine.

• 1:03:29Speaker 01

  It's offensive.

• 1:03:30Sam Fragoso?

  You were fine. But there was a lot of stuff about,

• 1:03:34Sam Fragoso?

  you and Walton Goggins, like not talking at the end and all this business.

• 1:03:38Speaker 01

  You started this interview off with some thing of like, you're handsome and you're ending it with you're old. That's, you see what you did there?

• 1:03:45Sam Fragoso?

  And yet, isn't it beautiful to age so wisely?

• 1:03:50Speaker 01

  Keep digging.

• 1:03:51Sam Fragoso?

  To age with so much wisdom.

• 1:03:52Speaker 01

  Let me get you.

• 1:03:53Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, but I-

• 1:03:54Speaker 01

  You got a question about Wal-

• 1:03:55Sam Fragoso?

  I have a question. As someone, I, I understand that you like basketball a lot and it's my favorite thing.

• 1:04:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:03Sam Fragoso?

  Here's how I, and we're talking about how you work.

• 1:04:05Speaker 01

  I'm sick with basketball metaphors.

• 1:04:07Sam Fragoso?

  I sense, like when you talk about how you work, and the method of finding it and searching and doing the legwork before you get in the room and then letting it go, that all the contention that seemed to happen where he says, you know, we didn't speak by the end of the show. It sounds to me, and I could be wrong, that's why I'm going to ask you, it sounds to me like two people who really give a shit, trying to make something good, and the best basketball analogy I could find was a little Shaq and Kobe like.

• 1:04:41Speaker 01

  What Shaq and Kobe?

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  You know, first of all, my experience as any job comes to an end, people start acting funny.

• 1:04:51Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:52Speaker 01

  Because it's hard to say goodbye.

• 1:04:52Sam Fragoso?

  It's, I hate leaving a trip.

• 1:04:54Speaker 01

  Walt is like, he is, you could see it in any, I'm not talking out of school. I've read interviews of he's given about lots of his work and great work that he's done and he, it's so clearly, he's in it. He gets weight. I'm like one of these, I'll tell you, when I first started working with Walt, I remember thinking, this guy's an actor, you know, like, why can't you be more like that? This guy's an actor. I mean, he is that Holly Hunter sitting to cry. He is, he is sensitive to the, the briefest, the, the smallest of breezes. It's like, he feels it. And,

• 1:05:33Sam Fragoso?

  Good callback.

• 1:05:34Speaker 01

  And he really is that guy. And he's one of those guys who starts talking about the character in a way that is like, You know, I'm one of these assholes who's like, what character?

• 1:05:45Sam Fragoso?

  There's no division is what you're saying?

• 1:05:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's just like, this guy wouldn't do that, or this guy would do this, and that's how he would do it.

• 1:05:52Sam Fragoso?

  Right.

• 1:05:52Speaker 01

  And I'm, and I'm one of these knuckleheads who's like, you know, and it's, I'm like, what character is this? We're just making this shit up. There's no characters. It's just the lines on the page, you say them, you know? So you can imagine when two people are coming at it from this, two totally different things, mine, simple and thoughtful, his annoying,

• 1:06:18Speaker 01

  that there's gonna be conflict.

• 1:06:21Sam Fragoso?

  Naturally. But both kinda wanting to get to the same good place.

• 1:06:25Speaker 01

  Oh my god, oh, for sure. No, Walt and I are like, you know, love, I love that guy, we, we're, it's a special relationship like any, like, it's just a very special relationship, and he is a special gun eye, and I think the world of him.

• 1:06:41Sam Fragoso?

  So was Shaq and Kobe kind of a good comparison?

• 1:06:43Speaker 01

  No, those guys were babies. Those guys, God rest, one of their souls, that's probably not what I should be saying. God damn it, I'm in a city with murals of that guy every which way you look, and I'm gonna sit here and talk about.

• 1:06:59Sam Fragoso?

  You're like a Clippers fan, I think, right?

• 1:07:00Speaker 01

  Let me tell you how showbiz, let me tell you, this is not, this is, this is, let me, a little insight of this guy here.

• 1:07:06Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:07Speaker 01

  I spent, I grew up in Modesto, California, Golden State Warriors, Sacramento Kings when they lost to, Kobe and Shaq all those years.

• 1:07:16Sam Fragoso?

  You also love Larry Bird.

• 1:07:17Speaker 01

  I was like, ah, had a little Larry Bird,

• 1:07:20Sam Fragoso?

  Paper Mache.

• 1:07:20Speaker 01

  Paper Mache as a kid, still have it.

• 1:07:22Sam Fragoso?

  Yep.

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  Still holds up. It's nice work, should've gone into art.

• 1:07:28Speaker 01

  So I spent, I spent a great deal of my twenties just shit talking Shaquille O'Neal. His big baby, da, da, da, right? Fucking Vladie Diva.

• 1:07:44Speaker 01

  Look out, the diesel with the forearm picked up a technical foul right there. You know, I like talking about, he became a Laker. What the hell?

• 1:07:54Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, he did.

• 1:07:54Speaker 01

  But he was a kid. Alright, so like I'm all about Weber and Stojakovic, all those guys, Jay Kidd. And, uh, uh, Williams.

• 1:08:03Sam Fragoso?

  Williams.

• 1:08:03Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:08:04Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, some white chocolate. Um, so.

• 1:08:06Sam Fragoso?

  Is that what your nickname is too?

• 1:08:08Speaker 01

  My, it just happens to be, I appreciate you catching that because I brought it up so you would point it out.

• 1:08:13Sam Fragoso?

  You're fishing?

• 1:08:14Speaker 01

  I'll answer to it in a room. That's all I'm saying.

• 1:08:16Sam Fragoso?

  That and Mr. Elephant.

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  Well, that's what my wife calls me and so I've grown fond of it. Um, so I'm, I spend most of my twenties, just, just saying, you know, all I see is the worst in, in that big man. And now I'm, cut to me, I'm in show business, I'm on a talk show and he's the other guest.

• 1:08:39Sam Fragoso?

  Ah.

• 1:08:39Speaker 01

  I say to my wife, I just met Shaquille O'Neal. And I said, I went out there and, and he says, hey, I says, hey, how you doing Shaquille? And I said, Tim. And he says, yeah, I'm a big fan. And I said, I'm a big fan of yours. And my wife says, you hate Shaquille. And I was like, what are you talking about? He seems like a good guy.

• 1:08:58Speaker 01

  That's all it took. I don't know if I told that story right, but I just know that I remember going up to his, seeing him thinking, there's the guy I've hated all these years, who ripped my heart out. And as soon as he said, I'm a big fan, what blurts out of my mouth is, I'm a big fan of yours.

• 1:09:13Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:14Speaker 01

  I love that guy. He's a good guy.

• 1:09:16Sam Fragoso?

  The moment he complimented justified, it was all over.

• 1:09:18Speaker 01

  It's all it took.

• 1:09:19Sam Fragoso?

  So you're not Shaq and Kobe, you and Walton? That's not a good, that's not a good comparison?

• 1:09:24Speaker 01

  No, no, we're just two cool dudes.

• 1:09:26Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, two cool dudes.

• 1:09:27Speaker 01

  We're like Butch and Sundance, you know what I mean? We're, uh.

• 1:09:30Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah, Sundance, good.

• 1:09:31Speaker 01

  We're, uh, like those Knicks.

• 1:09:33Sam Fragoso?

  The last thing I wanted to ask you, uh, you said recently.

• 1:09:37Speaker 01

  Take that grin off your face before you ask me this question. What is this bullshit grin? Go ahead, ask it.

• 1:09:44Sam Fragoso?

  Have you? I'm not so proud of it.

• 1:09:47Speaker 01

  You know what? Let's hear it. Maybe you think, maybe you ask one more question after.

• 1:09:50Sam Fragoso?

  Can I tell you something?

• 1:09:51Speaker 01

  Let's hear it.

• 1:09:52Sam Fragoso?

  Why, why, why have you been fighting me on this?

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

  What are you talking about?

• 1:09:55Sam Fragoso?

  You've been contesting.

• 1:09:56Speaker 01

  I'm in the flow.

• 1:09:58Sam Fragoso?

  Are you in the flow?

• 1:09:58Speaker 01

  I'm in the flow.

• 1:09:59Sam Fragoso?

  In the moment?

• 1:10:00Speaker 01

  Like Emily Blunt in that Spielberg movie. Have you seen it yet?

• 1:10:03Sam Fragoso?

  Disclosure Day?

• 1:10:04Speaker 01

  Disclosure Day.

• 1:10:05Sam Fragoso?

  I haven't seen that.

• 1:10:06Speaker 01

  She's so good.

• 1:10:07Sam Fragoso?

  You have this quote you gave recently. You said, I don't see myself becoming a better actor from my 50s to 60s. And the question I had then, I don't know if, I was so proud of it, but it was, it was, are you holding out for your 70s?

• 1:10:26Speaker 01

  I don't know if I'll be doing this in my 70s. I got, I got ceramic plans. I might call it if I can afford to.

• 1:10:35Sam Fragoso?

  Is that, is that true?

• 1:10:36Speaker 01

  Oh my God. Every time I'm in between jobs, I think, why, if I, can I, do I, can I afford to, you know, just go to a art studio and do that all day? Oh, yeah.

• 1:10:47Sam Fragoso?

  Hackman left at 75 ish, I think.

• 1:10:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, that sounds, yeah.

• 1:10:52Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:53Speaker 01

  No, no, I'm, I'm, I'm making a transition. I'm making a transition for sure.

• 1:10:57Sam Fragoso?

  Into what, you think?

• 1:10:59Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm in love with ceramics.

• 1:11:01Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  My wife.

• 1:11:01Sam Fragoso?

  This is real. I thought you were doing a bit the whole time.

• 1:11:03Speaker 01

  You know, the midlife crisis plan?

• 1:11:05Sam Fragoso?

  Is this your midlife crisis?

• 1:11:06Speaker 01

  This is my retire, this is my, whatever they call that, the, whatever that period is. I'm, I'm, I'm seeing, I'm looking ahead. Let me tell you, Sam.

• 1:11:16Sam Fragoso?

  Sam.

• 1:11:17Speaker 01

  You probably don't need this advice, but I found it's always great. You know what I love about the Stones is how much they love the blues. And because they love the blues, I feel like that's why they're aging so well.

• 1:11:29Sam Fragoso?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:11:30Speaker 01

  They're not act, they're not like, they're playing like kids, but they're not acting like kids. Cause they feel like their legends were like people that played till they're 80.

• 1:11:38Sam Fragoso?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:11:40Speaker 01

  Where am I going with this? I'll tell you.

• 1:11:41Sam Fragoso?

  I, I, I wasn't wondering.

• 1:11:43Speaker 01

  I've been thinking, I'm always thinking, do I want to act in my 80s or what I like to? I'm like, I'm trying to figure out what to do if I'm so lucky and healthy to live that long and be gone. So, yeah, I, I would.

• 1:11:55Speaker 01

  I would just sit in the ceramics studio all day if I could afford to.

• 1:12:00Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, so before you retire officially, which I'm glad you're giving us the announcement that you're, you know, the retirement's on the horizon here.

• 1:12:07Speaker 01

  You know what? There are people that left this interview a long time ago who were like, who are thinking, this guy should just do ceramics.

• 1:12:17Speaker 01

  I've seen the work and I've heard that I've heard enough and I feel like I've had enough. And the people who stuck around are saying, you know what? They had a point. They have a point.

• 1:12:29Sam Fragoso?

  I like some of his earlier work, but my God.

• 1:12:32Speaker 01

  When's this guy gonna shut up?

• 1:12:33Sam Fragoso?

  What the fuck?

• 1:12:34Speaker 01

  I don't know. Maybe I can't give it up. I, you know, it's nice to get a good table. And I'm not sure the ceramics career will help me with that.

• 1:12:41Sam Fragoso?

  When you said, ah, I don't see myself becoming a better actor from 50 to 60s. I feel like we've talked about explicitly you evolving and like and giving yourself.

• 1:12:55Speaker 01

  Again, you've quoted this guy that you claimed to be me a couple of times.

• 1:12:59Sam Fragoso?

  Always you.

• 1:12:59Speaker 01

  And a number of them are dumb, stupid.

• 1:13:02Sam Fragoso?

  Younger, dumber versions of you.

• 1:13:05Speaker 01

  This is the problem of not being truthful in interviews. Is you get, you hear it back and it sounds awful.

• 1:13:12Sam Fragoso?

  This is what happens. This is why we've been truthful.

• 1:13:14Speaker 01

  I don't know who I said that to or in what context, but it's, it sounds idiotic. No, if I keep acting, I hope to improve.

• 1:13:22Sam Fragoso?

  And you have.

• 1:13:23Speaker 01

  Well, I'd like to think, Jesus.

• 1:13:27Speaker 01

  Good job, honey. Let's hear you over there, Condes and me, motherfucker.

• 1:13:31Sam Fragoso?

  I'm not.

• 1:13:32Speaker 01

  You have. You've gotten better.

• 1:13:35Sam Fragoso?

  You know, you from that kid, from that kid who wasn't in a school play and told us to drive cross country.

• 1:13:41Speaker 01

  I was never, yeah, no plays. My first play was like, oh, I did a little off Broadway thing.

• 1:13:46Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:46Speaker 01

  I had some.

• 1:13:47Sam Fragoso?

  David Sedaris.

• 1:13:48Speaker 01

  Well, before, oh, Sam, you're embarrassing yourself. We're almost out. There was a play. Wow, that was strong. Look at you came back. It's almost like you set it up. Just.

• 1:14:00Sam Fragoso?

  I didn't.

• 1:14:00Speaker 01

  You said, I want to say both plays.

• 1:14:02Sam Fragoso?

  I just, I was looking for the Sedaris play because I love the Santa Land Diaries. That's why.

• 1:14:07Speaker 01

  The first, I was about to say thank you and you didn't mean me. You meant the Sedaris's.

• 1:14:12Sam Fragoso?

  Oh, no, the play, the play was a disaster.

• 1:14:15Speaker 01

  It was all right. We're like, he did take an edible. He wasn't fucking joking. So the guy's a nightmare.

• 1:14:25Sam Fragoso?

  I wish you called me before. I would have split it with you.

• 1:14:28Speaker 01

  Next time.

• 1:14:28Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah. You wanna do it again?

• 1:14:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, right. Yeah. We go back from the beginning and see what we missed.

• 1:14:36Sam Fragoso?

  Let me give us, we've missed a lot, but let me, let me just give us a button so we have something to use.

• 1:14:40Speaker 01

  I love a button. I use them all the time at work. Button, slow burn, double takes. I can do all three in any order.

• 1:14:48Sam Fragoso?

  I guess what I'm really trying to get at is this, this recurring theme that we keep hitting is the, uh, the amount of effort it takes to appear effortless, which is kinda your bag. I think that's what most people, they know your work and you, you have this ease. But I wonder now, like that young kid who was like, I did all this work and then pretended like I didn't. Do you feel like at this point in your career and the work you're making now? I don't know, like you, you don't really have to pretend

• 1:15:24Sam Fragoso?

  like you don't give a shit anymore.

• 1:15:27Speaker 01

  You and my wife should, you know what I mean? My wife sometimes will say, Tim, it's okay to let them know how hard you're working.

• 1:15:38Speaker 01

  And, uh, well, I do give a shit. It's, I mean, it's in the work. It's in there talking about giving a shit. It's kinda boring, but, um, oh my God, I, I love the job. I give a, I care deeply about, about it. Is that what you're getting at? Cause I, yeah. I'm not making it up when I talk about how I prep for a role. Uh, it's not, it's not that I don't, I really do just memorize the lines. I'm not the only one who said that. Anthony Hopkins talks about that in, in interviews I've read. And he, I, I, he's not making it up. Neither am I. I mean, I,

• 1:16:23Speaker 01

  here's what I'll do if this is your question. I, and if it's long-winded, just give me, give me a thing and we'll see it.

• 1:16:33Speaker 01

  Except for those people.

• 1:16:37Speaker 01

  On a

• 1:16:41Speaker 01

  Strong. That was good. Well done. You've learned something today and I'm proud of you.

• 1:16:47Sam Fragoso?

  Give the answer.

• 1:16:48Speaker 01

  When Quentin tells me the scene in the film that Fincher's gonna direct and I hear it for the first time, I think, great, I'll memorize that. You know, and I'll, and I'll see you. Just tell me what, you know, send me a call sheet and I'll be there. There is other work. Not that they're any less talented and thoughtful and amazing, where the writing is like, it's, it works, but there's something missing. Or there's, there's an opportunity that may be missed. Or whether it's a scene, or whether it's a, an episode or a season where there's, there's things there to keep mining. And I will work tirelessly. Because it's so fun to do. On trying to figure out what those opportunities missed are, or what that deeper meaning there that we could get at, or

• 1:17:35Speaker 01

  comedy where there is none in the drama and drama where there's none in the comedy. I will work endlessly. I love doing that. And I love that dialogue back and forth with the writer and the director. And the other act to, to find it. But then, once you do that, there's really nothing else to do. For me, that I find helpful, other than just to memorize the lines. And while you're memorizing those lines, if you don't instinctively see it right off the bat, you'll start to find what those, what the intention of the scene is, or the tone of the scene, or what it seems to suggest. And you seem to, and you know that you're

• 1:18:17Speaker 01

  really doing what you're, as long as you know the lines and you're really doing what you're doing, you're really asking the question, not just pretending to ask a question. Then my job, that's it. That's the, that's the extent of the job. There's nothing to do there.

• 1:18:33Speaker 01

  That I can see that's helpful. Other than to show up and just really do the thing.

• 1:18:39Sam Fragoso?

  And the kid that showed up with his wife cross-country at the door of William Esper, did you think? That this is how it would go? Did you, could you have ever fathomed that it was gonna work out like this?

• 1:18:54Speaker 01

  I thought it seemed like a good idea at the time. And, and my wife was, was supportive and was, and was there. And so that was it. That was, it was just a, that was a, there was only two people on the team and both, every, we were both in. So off we went. And it just seemed like, yeah, this will work. This is how people do it. We showed up, I was like bartending, waiting tables. And I'm like, yeah, this is what you do. This is what, this is the most exciting thing. It just seemed like it was so much fun. Even the, I mean, memories and unreliable narrators. I know at the time, there was days where you're like, fucking A. How's this gonna work?

• 1:19:36Speaker 01

  But it, but everything about that trip was enjoyable, was exciting. And, um, and I just, I love being a, you know, starting. I love being in school. I love that I was bart, you know, I was working as a waiter and, and in order to afford classes. The whole thing was like, this is a ball.

• 1:20:00Speaker 01

  And I don't think it would have been that fun if we didn't think it was gonna work. It's only now that we look back and we think, what the fuck?

• 1:20:09Speaker 01

  What were we thinking? We were kids. We were like 22 and we'd be like, let's get married and move to New York. You could be an actor. What idiots, like what the fuck? And then three kids and the, oh yeah. Now we look back and we're like, yeah, it's crazy, crazy that it worked. I mean, it's, it's.

• 1:20:31Sam Fragoso?

  I think it worked.

• 1:20:32Speaker 01

  It worked.

• 1:20:33Sam Fragoso?

  And whatever delusion the two of you bought into, I think I've thoroughly enjoyed the work you've made. And, you know, I, I imagine I'll keep enjoying it up until you do ceramics.

• 1:20:48Speaker 01

  I appreciate that very much. And I really appreciate the invitation to be here. It really means a lot. So, thank you.

• 1:20:56Sam Fragoso?

  Timothy Olyphant. Thank you, sir.

• 1:20:58Speaker 01

  Thank you, Sam.

• 1:21:08Sam Fragoso?

  Thank you for watching Talk Easy. If you enjoyed today's episode, subscribe here on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also leave us a review on Apple, drop us a comment on Spotify, and follow us at Talk Easy Pod across social media. I'll see you next Sunday.

• 1:21:23Speaker 03

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