Travis Barker: The ‘Wound That Almost Never Heals’

Travis Barker’s mom, Gloria, died the day before he started high school. In 2008, the Blink-182 drummer survived a plane crash that killed four people, including two of his closest friends. The only other survivor, friend and collaborator Adam “DJ AM” Goldstein, died less than a year later from an overdose. Travis talks with Anderson Cooper about facing fear and grief after decades of “muscling through” his hurt and how he carries the people he’s lost with him. For more of “All There Is with Anderson Cooper” visit cnn.com/allthereis. Host: Anderson Cooper Showrunner: Haley Thomas Producers: Emily Williams and Kyra Dahring Video Editor: Eric Zembrzuski Technical Director: Dan Dzula Bookers: Kerry Rubin and Kari Pricher Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Anderson Cooper?

  Welcome to All There Is. Wherever you are in the world and in your grief, I'm glad you're here. My guest today is legendary drummer Travis Barker. He's probably best known as a member of the band Blink-182. Travis's mom, Gloria Barker, died from complications related to Sjogren's Syndrome, which is an autoimmune disease in 1990. Travis was just about to start high school when she died. It was Gloria who'd bought Travis his first drum kit and did whatever she could to make sure that he used it. In 2008, Travis Barker got on a private plane in South Carolina after a concert with his friend and collaborator Adam Goldstein, known as DJ AM. Also with them was Travis's close friend and assistant, Chris Baker, his security guard, Charles Chase Still, and two pilots.

• 1:14Anderson Cooper?

  The plane, however, crashed on takeoff. Travis, Adam Goldstein were the only survivors. Though he was badly burned, Travis spent months in a hospital and burn center and underwent 27 surgeries. Less than a year later after the crash, the only other survivor, Adam Goldstein, DJ AM, died of an overdose. He'd been sober for 12 years. Travis was born in 1975 in Fontana, California. He's been married to his wife, Kourtney Kardashian, since 2022. Over the last 10 years, he's been working on a documentary about his life, which has just come out called Louder Than Fear. I spoke to Travis a few weeks ago. I wanted to talk about early loss with you first. Your mom Gloria died right before you started high school.

• 1:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, day before high school.

• 2:01Anderson Cooper?

  The day before?

• 2:02Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:02Anderson Cooper?

  Is it true that she took drum lessons with you and learned to read music with you?

• 2:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it started with pots and pans when I was four. And I had seen Animal from the Muppets on TV. And that was it. I was in love with drumming. And then it turned into my mom and dad realizing he's really into this. And my mom loved The Police, The Beatles, Elvis Presley. My dad raised me on Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson, Buck Owens. They really wanted me to pursue the drums. So it came time I took lessons. And my mom was watching everything, like learning paradiddles, learning flams, learning basic beats. So up until the time she passed away, she was as good at drums as I was.

• 2:48Anderson Cooper?

  Wow.

• 2:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:49Anderson Cooper?

  She did that because she wanted to help you?

• 2:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think her thought process was she didn't want me to get home and not understand something.

• 2:57Anderson Cooper?

  When did she get sick?

• 2:59Speaker 02

  It's all kind of a blur to me. From the time I was born till, what, I was like 13? It's kind of a mystery. I don't remember a lot of it.

• 3:10Anderson Cooper?

  Me neither.

• 3:10Speaker 02

  You don't either?

• 3:11Anderson Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 3:12Speaker 02

  We also didn't have like a video camera growing up or anything. So I don't have any videos of my mom.

• 3:17Anderson Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 3:18Speaker 02

  I have a few photos. And then when she was sick, she didn't want anyone to take photos of her. I understand how it was explained to me. It was only a few months after she was diagnosed with cancer that she passed away.

• 3:30Anderson Cooper?

  Did you know she had cancer as a kid?

• 3:33Speaker 02

  No, because they misdiagnosed it forever. They didn't know what was going on. And then finally someone said, this is cancer.

• 3:40Anderson Cooper?

  Did you know she might die?

• 3:41Speaker 02

  No. I had no clue that that was gonna happen.

• 3:45Anderson Cooper?

  No one had talked about her?

• 3:46Speaker 02

  No, I mean, my dad worked at a steel mill and he was there like 60 hours a week, you know, providing for our family. He was basically at work all day. My mom was at home and she had a daycare, so she would take care of kids. So long story short, yeah, I had no idea. And I'd never experienced loss before that.

• 4:06Anderson Cooper?

  Were you there when she died?

• 4:07Speaker 02

  Right before, right before. And I remember they were like, you gotta get down there. And luckily I got down there the day she passed and had a chance for her to say like, pursue music, like I really want you to pursue music. I still didn't think those were last words.

• 4:22Anderson Cooper?

  But those were her last

• 4:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:24Anderson Cooper?

  words to you?

• 4:26Speaker 02

  From the time my mom said that to me, it was like tunnel vision. I feel like when a parent passes like this, I feel like they're an angel and they help you so many ways, you know?

• 4:35Anderson Cooper?

  You feel that, you feel your mom in that way?

• 4:37Speaker 02

  1,000%. I do feel like,

• 4:42Speaker 02

  to me, she's not just dead and gone. I do feel her presence. It's almost ignorant to think I could just be so blessed to have everything I have now without her and a lot of people that have passed. My son's two and a half. His name's Rocky 13 Barker. He's so funny. And I'll play with his hair and it's like the one thing I remember. My mom used to just put her hands through my hair. And it was like so soothing and I would fall asleep. So there's little things, like I don't know how I remember that, you know, of all things.

• 5:14Anderson Cooper?

  After she died, did you talk about her?

• 5:18Speaker 02

  Not really. I remember even being at her funeral and I was like, just trying to be so tough, you know? My dad, my dad always taught me to be tough.

• 5:27Anderson Cooper?

  Did you cry?

• 5:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. But I tried not to for so long, you know? And then one of my aunts walked up to me and it was, I just broke down. And then after that, nothing really changed. My dad still had to go to work 60 hours a week. My sisters were doing their own thing. I just, I showed up to high school, the first day of high school and tried out for band and made marching band snare line, which was like a big accomplishment. Joined jazz band, joined orchestra, just head down, no one to talk to, but played the drums.

• 6:03Anderson Cooper?

  You went to school the day after your mom died?

• 6:04Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:07Anderson Cooper?

  Do you remember that?

• 6:22Anderson Cooper?

  When my dad died, I was in fifth grade and I had a sense of shame about it for some reason. Like I remember a kid wanted to come over.

• 6:35Anderson Cooper?

  I remember a kid wanted to come over to my house and I was angry about it because I didn't want him to see like, yeah, I didn't want him to see it. I didn't want him to see me like sad or I didn't want him to see me.

• 6:53Anderson Cooper?

  Yeah, just, I didn't want anyone to acknowledge it.

• 6:58Speaker 02

  He has seen?

• 7:06Anderson Cooper?

  But he tried out for music right away?

• 7:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:11Anderson Cooper?

  Was that because of what your mom said?

• 7:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's pretty much all I knew, right? I didn't really know a next step or a step to take after that happened, except to pick up where I left off and keep playing drums, you know?

• 7:24Anderson Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  So that's what I did.

• 7:27Anderson Cooper?

  That was like your anchor?

• 7:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's all I focused on, like head down, played the drums.

• 7:32Anderson Cooper?

  Your manager, Lauren, said every time he hits a drum, there's a part of his anger that comes out. Do you think that's true?

• 7:39Speaker 02

  Maybe it's not anger. Maybe it's like his hurt, you know? Like what he's, what I've been through. And it's therapeutic for me.

• 7:48Anderson Cooper?

  You said his hurt?

• 7:49Speaker 02

  My hurt.

• 7:50Anderson Cooper?

  Okay.

• 7:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, my hurt.

• 7:51Anderson Cooper?

  I thought you meant, I thought maybe you meant like the little boy you were.

• 7:54Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, for sure, everything. Because I think years of not talking to anybody, like your mom passes, you don't talk to anyone. How are you dealing with it? You're not, right? You're just like muscling through it. And that's what my dad taught me to do. He's like, be tough, you're strong, whatever. So that's what I told myself a lot. So I think years of not talking about it, probably until like my first therapy session, which was in my 30s. And that was to help me stop using drugs. And then a ton of things come up.

• 8:31Anderson Cooper?

  You didn't deal with any of this stuff until in your 30s? You pushed it down and that's when it started to bubble up?

• 8:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, from the time she passed until I had my son and my kids,

• 8:45Speaker 02

  I was sort of okay with also passing away young. I was like, if I get to 21, I'm happy. And I very much like lived that way for a long time. And then once I started touring, it was like drugs and smoking and everything. I remember my manager at one point was like, don't you want to have kids and grow old? And I was like, no, that's not what I want to do. I want to play drums. I want to like live for the day. I don't want to worry about tomorrow too much. I also didn't have a lot of hope around me where I grew up. There was no one that was really successful or got to leave. So when I got to leave, it was a big deal. I think it gave me a lot of hope. After my mom had passed, my dad gave me an ultimatum. He said, you're either gonna join the military like me.

• 9:30Speaker 02

  He was in the army, fought Vietnam, rode a Harley his whole life and worked at a steel mill. So he's like, you're gonna do something very similar to me? You're gonna work 60 hours a week and pay rent? Or you're gonna leave? You're gonna go figure it out?

• 9:47Speaker 02

  So I said, I'm gonna leave and I'm gonna go figure it out. I got an offer to play in my friend's band, Feeble, move to Laguna Beach and become a trash man. And I did it. And I wasn't living where I grew up. I got out and that was just to see other things and see the possibilities. It gave me so much hope. My only goal was to have enough money to eat, sleep, and play drums. And once I accomplished that, I was like, this is the best thing ever, you know? That was like a dream that almost seemed unachievable from where I came from. There was no one else I knew that was playing drums for a living or music for a living or had a job where they could still try to play music. That's what keeps me happy.

• 10:32Speaker 02

  That's what like feeds my soul is playing music. And I just, just completely threw myself into that.

• 10:43Anderson Cooper?

  You said you feel your mom. What does that feel like?

• 10:48Speaker 02

  Well, two things. I think if she was alive, I don't know if I would have tried as hard. Because I had this desire in me to fulfill what she said to me. And I was like, I have to do it. That's the least thing I can do, right? And then I think of the luck of moving to Laguna and then being in the Aquabats and then filling in for Blink in 45 minutes notice. Like, I'm like, it's trickery. Like, she has to be helping me. There's no way.

• 11:21Anderson Cooper?

  With Blink, the drummer, something happened right before a show. You filled in.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  Exactly, yeah. Learned everything in 45 minutes. Played the next three shows afterwards. They're like, we've never sounded better. We had so much fun playing with you. Will you be in our band? So I just think the discipline to keep practicing after she passed away, I feel like it was her that maybe helped me.

• 11:46Anderson Cooper?

  We'll be back with more of my conversation with Travis Barker.

• 11:51Speaker 03

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• 12:04Speaker 04

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• 12:19Speaker 03

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• 12:24Speaker 04

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• 12:26Speaker 03

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• 12:32Anderson Cooper?

  Had flying been an issue for you?

• 12:35Speaker 02

  Yes. When I was really young, we went to Chicago. My mom was so upset.

• 12:41Anderson Cooper?

  On the flight?

• 12:41Speaker 02

  She was terrified, yeah. She was terrified and she was bawling. And I remember my dad trying to like calm her down. And I remember being scared because I saw my mom scared, right? And then the first band I was in that started touring a lot was the Aquabats. And we would fly and I would be so terrified. The only thing I can connect the dots to is my mom. I didn't like anything about it. I didn't like being out of control. I didn't like the way it made me feel. Then in Blink, sometimes we were flying three times a day. Three shows. We were playing like radio shows, especially when the band first took off. And I would just be white knuckling it. I'd be like, if this plane lands, I'm gonna play the best show.

• 13:24Speaker 02

  I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do that. You know, I was just, I just...

• 13:27Anderson Cooper?

  If you hate flying, flying three times a day is, I mean, that's a nightmare.

• 13:30Speaker 02

  It was hard, yeah. And then somewhere along the way, someone said, just take a Norco or Vicodin before you get on the plane. You're gonna chill out.

• 13:39Anderson Cooper?

  So September 19th, 2008, what happened?

• 13:44Speaker 02

  I was in South Carolina and I was with Little Chris, my friend Che, you know, some of my best friends.

• 13:53Anderson Cooper?

  Little Chris also was an assistant of yours as well and Che was security.

• 13:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, Little Chris was basically my brother that I met 19 years into my life, you know? And Che was like, yeah, security, who was like a really good friend. And we met AM in South Carolina.

• 14:10Anderson Cooper?

  AM is DJ AM, Adam Goldstein.

• 14:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, Adam Goldstein. So we go there, we play this, this show in South Carolina. We were scheduled to fly home the next morning on a commercial flight. And everyone kind of wanted to go home that night. Our manager just found something and...

• 14:28Anderson Cooper?

  Found a private plane.

• 14:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. And we were leaving at around 11 or midnight.

• 14:34Anderson Cooper?

  So on the plane, were you, Chris, Che, Adam, and the two pilots?

• 14:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. We pulled up to the airport and I see this little plane way out there. And I'm like, there's no way that's our plane. And I told Little Chris, I said, man, I have a bad feeling, you know? He's like, same. I don't like this plane. And I called my dad. I said, I don't know, pal. It's just weird. I have the weirdest feeling. And then, yeah, I just have a blunt in the car, take a couple Vicodin. I just get on the plane. That's how I'd force myself on planes at that point, you know? During takeoff, our landing gear, the tires popped. Plane skidded across the runway, caught fire, and then attempted to take off.

• 15:20Anderson Cooper?

  You were in the emergency exit seat?

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was, um, it was me, AM, Chris and Che. The plane was, was trying to take off, attempting to take off. And then it would hit the ground and then it would take off and then it would hit the ground.

• 15:38Speaker 02

  And I was sort of just waiting for it to be lights out for me. And then when we finally hit this embankment, I was still alive. It was like complete chaos, like smoke, fire.

• 15:57Anderson Cooper?

  There's a police dash cam, officer arrives on the scene and you say, call for an ambulance. Do you remember that? Do you remember the getting out of the plane?

• 16:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. I remember everything, unfortunately. I attempted to get up, get out of the plane. Tried to go forward and get to Che and Chris. My, my hands caught fire because the inside of the plane was on fire.

• 16:24Speaker 02

  And then

• 16:28Speaker 02

  once my hands caught on fire, I went to my left. I shook AM. I got him out. I pulled him out of his seat, opened the emergency exit, tried to jump out of the plane.

• 16:40Anderson Cooper?

  You jumped into the jet fuel?

• 16:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I jumped into the jet fuel. My whole body caught fire and then I ran into oncoming traffic on a highway. And AM was behind me, just like screaming. And then I heard a, heard someone in a car just say, stop, drop and roll. Like what we're taught when we're kids, but I never, I didn't even think of it. I was just stripping all my clothes off because there were, I was on fire. And then, um, stop, drop and roll. And the last thing that was the worst on me was my, my socks were filled with jet fuel.

• 17:23Speaker 02

  And he padded me out. And then maybe 20 seconds later, the plane blew up. And just waited for anyone to come.

• 17:33Anderson Cooper?

  I mean, I read reports you were burned over 65, 70 something percent of your body.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  70% of my body was burnt.

• 17:40Anderson Cooper?

  Burn injuries are excruciatingly awful and painful.

• 17:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't think you ever think about it. I never thought about it. But burns and the treating of burns was the most pain I've ever experienced. When I got to the LA Burn Center, they put you in this big pan that's about as big as this table. And they have to scrape your burns with a metal brush to get all, to get everything out and clean you very thoroughly. I remember that. But I couldn't remember. I was asking where Che and Chris were. I didn't know that they had passed.

• 18:13Anderson Cooper?

  How long were you in the hospital for?

• 18:15Speaker 02

  I was in the hospital about six months. I had about 30 surgeries during that time. Just taking skin from other parts of my body to put grafts on the parts of my body that I needed. I got lucky. Like at one point, they thought they were gonna amputate my foot. I think the hardest thing being in there was I was so used to self-medicating that none of, none of the pain medication worked. So I'd wake up mid-surgery, just not knowing what's going on, swinging on doctors because I thought I was being attacked, but they just couldn't get my medicine right.

• 18:51Anderson Cooper?

  So whatever sedatives they would give you, it just, it didn't really, it didn't last or it didn't work?

• 18:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:57Anderson Cooper?

  You had to learn how to walk again?

• 18:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:59Anderson Cooper?

  Because your feet had been so badly burned?

• 19:01Speaker 02

  My feet and legs, well, they, they weren't used for six months, right? So 30 something surgeries later, the doctors had said right off the jump, they're like,

• 19:13Speaker 02

  you might not play drums again. You might not be able to walk or run like you did before. You're gonna be on these 20 medications for the rest of your life. The amount of trauma you went through, it was a little scary at first, right? And I was on all these medications and honestly, they were making me feel awful. I didn't feel like myself, so I just stopped taking everything.

• 19:38Speaker 02

  Would do all my therapy. I started drumming immediately, even though I didn't have feeling in my right hand. I had to go get a couple surgeries to fix my nerves in my hand. But everyday life was, was really hard for me. My friend Armin would come walk with me and if I saw a plane come in the sky, I would like hide. I didn't want to be anywhere near it and I just kept waiting for planes to fall out of the sky. Planes just equal death to me. It was difficult, you know, for a little bit. Until I kind of got my bearings. I wouldn't stay at hotels near airports. The smell would, would just irk me.

• 20:23Anderson Cooper?

  The smell of jet fuel?

• 20:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'd swallowed so much jet fuel that I was burping up jet fuel for, for weeks in the hospital. So there was just certain things I really, it took me a minute to get over. Leaving the house was just hard. Like I was just waiting for something to happen. And it just, just got better day by day.

• 20:42Anderson Cooper?

  Is it through therapy it gets better? Is it through just time and talking about it with others?

• 20:50Speaker 02

  I think spending time with my kids, I think doing normal things, like taking them to school. Also facing like what I was afraid of, like stop avoiding airports. Who cares if there's a plane above you? Just getting my mindset different. At the time, it was like Chris and Che are gone.

• 21:12Speaker 02

  These two pilots passed away. I was in a burn center for six months. Life was hard. I remember my post-traumatic doctor had said something like, people go through life just expecting everything to be perfect. And not everything's gonna be perfect. Sometimes you're gonna, you're gonna face adversity, right? But these things either destroy you or define you. And there was no way I was gonna let it destroy me.

• 21:41Anderson Cooper?

  What's grief like for you?

• 21:46Speaker 02

  It's sort of like a wound that almost never heals, right? It's just like, can get reopened. And I can go through days, weeks, months, not thinking about it. And then something, right? Something will remind you.

• 22:03Anderson Cooper?

  Does talking about it help you?

• 22:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely. Everything happens for a reason and I-

• 22:07Anderson Cooper?

  Do you believe that? I wrestle with that.

• 22:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, me too. I mean, I don't like, I can never tell like one of my friends that loses someone like, oh, it's like what God wanted. I don't believe that. But when my mom passed away, I was brought up going to like Catholic school and I believed in God and I'm like, how can this happen? I don't understand this. But I just gotta, I just gotta have faith that I'm here for a reason and make the most of it. My kids were so important to me. Like when I got home and once I was out of the hospital, that was like, that was my rock. That gave me everything I needed, just waking up and being as strong as I possibly could for them and enjoying every minute I had with them. Kids are my superpower.

• 22:54Speaker 02

  After my accident, I had a lot of survivor's guilt with my two friends and the pilots that passed. It was killing me, you know?

• 23:01Anderson Cooper?

  That you had survived and they hadn't?

• 23:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:04Anderson Cooper?

  What happened to Adam?

• 23:08Speaker 02

  No one really knows. AM was, was suffering because he wasn't waking up with kids. He just went back to work.

• 23:15Anderson Cooper?

  You both had this shared traumatic experience? Did you talk about it with each other?

• 23:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. That was all I had.

• 23:22Anderson Cooper?

  He was the guy you talked to?

• 23:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was the only person and he, he was passed out when it all happened. I don't know if he hit his head or what happened, but it even helped just chop it up and hear his side of the story. Like I remember you jumping out and you were on fire and I was whatever, calling the police and just remembering boarding the plane and how we felt boarding the plane and just talking. I didn't have really anyone else I could explain that to. You know, I did my best with my post-traumatic doctor who was awesome and even my burn center doctor, friends and family were awesome, but it's kind of hard to, to have anyone be able to relate to me. And AM was sober for I think 15 years now and he was just so inspiring and so motivating

• 24:07Speaker 02

  and I never doubted his sobriety. He was just so strong. I had spoken to him a lot, like right before he had passed. I was back in Blink and we were touring and I remember him writing me and saying like, man, you don't care about me anymore, whatever. And I'm like, no, I can't wait to play more shows with you. You kidding me? And I get to New York, supposed to meet up the next day. I see my manager and he's like, dude, we can't get ahold of Adam. Something's up with him. The following day, I'm in a session, working on like my album and my drum tech comes and

• 24:50Speaker 02

  brings a computer and he's just like, it's, it's like a TMZ article and it's like DJ AM passes away. And I'm, I was like,

• 25:06Speaker 02

  it was like the worst, I don't know, movie I was trapped in, you know? I couldn't believe it.

• 25:17Speaker 02

  From-

• 25:27Anderson Cooper?

  We can stop if you want.

• 25:39Speaker 02

  These are the wounds that I'm talking about.

• 25:42Anderson Cooper?

  Yeah, he had an overdose.

• 25:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. I don't think any of us know if it was, you know, an intentional overdose or an accidental, but yeah.

• 25:55Anderson Cooper?

  And he was the person you talked to?

• 25:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. We could relate to one another. And one of the last things he had said, which I always run back in my head is, it was through texts and he's like, man, honestly, I just feel like doing a bunch of drugs and saying [BLEEP]. And I was like, no, no. Once again, I thought he was bulletproof. I was like, thought he was saying that, but-

• 26:22Anderson Cooper?

  I saw somewhere you said you've sometimes felt like you were in a Final Destination film. How so?

• 26:28Speaker 02

  Just everyone dying around me, you know? From like the plane crash and then AM passes and now I'm the only survivor. And I was on tour around that time, so I would hide in my bus and I would only come out to play and just go back in the bus. My kids weren't with me, so it was just-

• 26:54Anderson Cooper?

  It's hard.

• 26:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:56Anderson Cooper?

  You didn't fly again on a plane for years?

• 27:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, almost 20 years.

• 27:02Anderson Cooper?

  You would take a boat to, a ship to go to Europe?

• 27:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. I'd take the bus to New York, then take the Queen Mary from New York to London. So I, I traveled like that for a long time.

• 27:15Anderson Cooper?

  Like a tour bus to, to New York?

• 27:17Speaker 02

  Tour bus to New York, yeah. And then hop on the Queen Mary. That was how my kids and I traveled for years. Originally, my documentary, the ending, the producer, his wish was, can we just show you on a plane at the end of the documentary?

• 27:32Anderson Cooper?

  Hmm.

• 27:33Speaker 02

  And at the time, I was just so against it and I physically couldn't do it.

• 27:39Speaker 02

  And there was no ending to my documentary. There was no shiny lining. There was, this person was in a plane crash. He lost his best friends. His other best friend died a year later from a drug overdose. He lost his mom at a young age. And to me, it was like the end of the, the story is he's still afraid of flying and this still has power over him. And I'm like, that's not going to come out like that. I didn't tell anyone, but I, my goal was to change the ending of the documentary. I didn't know how or when.

• 28:13Anderson Cooper?

  That was a motivating factor for you?

• 28:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, deep down, but I didn't share with anyone. I was just like, I, I can't, this cannot have power over me and my kids. My kids aren't flying, you know? I started kind of taking care of myself more and more. Started running, started boxing, started doing a lot of things, back to a lot of things that I was doing when I was younger. And then I was getting a massage one day and this massage therapist that always works on me, she's like, you know, Trav, I can give you as many massages as you want, but like you have a lot of trauma. You should do breath work because trauma, if it just lives inside your body, it turns into disease and you need to try to figure it out.

• 28:57Speaker 02

  I finally gave in and I did it and I really went into it so guarded, sort of like I'm going to do the session, but I'm going to, I'm going to have my guard up the whole time. And 10 minutes into breath work, I'm bawling.

• 29:10Anderson Cooper?

  Wow. What is it?

• 29:11Speaker 02

  You basically are doing breath work at this pace where your body, you feel, you feel like you're high and you also have no control, or at least I didn't, of your emotions. And some people are laughing hysterically, some people are bawling their eyes out. And I let go, I think of like childhood trauma, definitely trauma from my, my accident. Also felt like I connected with my mom, Che and Chris and AM.

• 29:42Anderson Cooper?

  All through breathing?

• 29:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did it about six times. And around the same time, I told my wife, who, we were in like a really new relationship, but I had known my wife for years. We were best friends for a long time. And I said, if there's ever like a place you want to take me in, it involves flying, just tell me the night before and I'm going to try to go.

• 30:05Anderson Cooper?

  That's big.

• 30:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. I just like threw it out there because she would always say, oh, there's so many things I want to do with you. And I'm like, I feel like I'm so trapped. So I told her that.

• 30:16Speaker 02

  Scheduled breath work that night. She tells me later, we're, we're going to do a really small flight tomorrow. The flight's easier than I ever thought. Like all these things that I had thought would be the baggage I'd carry with me on that flight didn't exist. It was just, felt so good to face my fear and put it to rest, you know?

• 30:39Anderson Cooper?

  And have you flown since?

• 30:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've flown probably, probably close to 50 times now.

• 30:45Anderson Cooper?

  Wow.

• 30:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. I'm not into mediums. I'm not into psychics, anything like that. Breath work, I 1,000% believe in. It wasn't guided. I didn't tell the person what my, my goals were before doing breath work and those things just happened. And they were so, they were extremely therapeutic for me.

• 31:03Anderson Cooper?

  Hmm.

• 31:05Speaker 02

  And I felt like that was my best way of dealing with grief or any trauma that I've experienced. Without breath work, I don't think I would have got on a plane. I feel like it helped me glue a couple of things together.

• 31:20Anderson Cooper?

  Does music help you?

• 31:21Speaker 02

  I do think writing songs about it, anything you can write a song about or tell a story about it, I think is extremely therapeutic.

• 31:30Anderson Cooper?

  Is there something you've learned in your grief that would be helpful for others?

• 31:33Speaker 02

  I just think living in their honor is important.

• 31:37Anderson Cooper?

  Hmm.

• 31:38Speaker 02

  You know, and honoring them correctly is, means a lot to me. I have this list of unfortunately, people who have passed that I pray every time, you know?

• 31:48Anderson Cooper?

  You pray to them?

• 31:49Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. Before shows or before I fly, I feel like it gives me a lot of strength.

• 31:54Anderson Cooper?

  I sometimes ask people on this podcast to say the names of the people you've lost and you've talked about this list.

• 32:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:03Anderson Cooper?

  Could you say it out loud?

• 32:05Speaker 02

  My mom, little Chris, Che, DJ AM, Triggs, John Secrater, Robert Ortiz, Taylor Hawkins, Robert Kardashian and Brant Barker. Thank you so much.

• 32:22Anderson Cooper?

  Thank you.

• 32:24Anderson Cooper?

  That documentary Travis talks about is called Travis Barker, Louder Than Fear, and you can watch it on Hulu and Disney Plus. If you have thoughts you'd like to share about my conversation with Travis, you can leave us a comment on our grief community page, cnn.com/allthereis. And if there's something you've learned in grief that would be helpful for others, we'd love to hear from you. Leave us a voicemail at 404-827-1805. On Thursday, August 27th, I hope you join me at 9:15 PM for my streaming show, All There Is Live. It's on every other Thursday. You can see new episodes live on cnn.com/allthereis and it's free on our community page for a week after. Thanks so much for listening. We'll have an all new podcast episode out on September 3rd.

• 33:07Anderson Cooper?

  Grief can feel so lonely, but talking about it helps and hearing from others does as well. It's a reminder that none of us is alone in our grief.