Pod Insights Speaking of Psychology How to build kids’ resilience, with Mary Alvord, PhD About this episode From school pressures to friendship ruptures, all kids will face challenges as they grow. Mary Alvord, PhD, talks why building resilience is key to helping kids handle both everyday stresses and significant life setbacks; how to help children and teens develop foundational resilience skills like emotion regulation, problem solving and an “action mindset”; and how the Resilience Builder program is being scaled up to classrooms and schools to reach more kids who could benefit from it.
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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0:56 Kim Mills? All kids face challenges as they grow, from school pressures to friendship ruptures to family tension. While stress and setbacks are a normal part of life, giving kids the tools to manage these challenges, whether large or small, can help them cope and thrive. Today, we're going to talk to a psychologist who has spent decades developing programs to help children build these essential resilience skills. So how do kids develop resilience? What role can parents, caregivers, and schools play in shaping it? What do psychological research tell us about how to help children cope with disappointment, manage strong emotions, and build confidence? And how can resilience-building programs be scaled to schools and communities
1:41 Kim Mills? to reach the children who need them most?
1:45 Kim Mills? Welcome to Speaking of Psychology, the flagship podcast of the American Psychological Association that examines the links between psychological science and everyday life. I'm Kim Mills.
1:58 Kim Mills? My guest today is Dr. Mary Alvord, a licensed psychologist with more than 40 years of clinical experience. She's the founder of Alvord Baker & Associates, a therapy practice in Maryland and Washington DC. She's also an adjunct associate professor in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at the George Washington University School of Medicine. Dr. Alvord is an internationally recognized expert in resilience and developed the Resilience Builder Program, a group therapy program designed to help children and teens bounce back from challenges. She also founded a nonprofit organization, Resilience Across Borders, to bring the program to students in schools. Dr. Alvord is the author of four books,
2:39 Kim Mills? including the Resilience Building Workbooks for Teens, Conquer Negative Thinking, and The Action Mindset. Dr. Alvord, thank you for joining me today.
2:48 Speaker 03 Thank you. I am very excited to be here so that we could really help empower, not just to parents, but any adults that might be listening, so that they can help the children in their lives and themselves.
3:01 Kim Mills? Well, let's start by talking about the word resilience. How do you define that in your research and in your clinical work?
3:08 Speaker 03 In the research, the formal definition is expanded. The traditional definition of resilience was really adapting to adversities. But in the practice and working with children and teens and families, you know, we really came to understand that it's not just severe hardships or traumas, but resilience is being able to adapt to the stresses of daily life challenges and also the larger setbacks that we face. So we expanded it so we could include kids with ADHD or learning issues or family difficulties.
3:51 Kim Mills? Why is resilience especially important for kids today? And given your years of experience in treating children, has the need for resilience become more acute? Or are we just more aware of how hard it is to be a kid today?
4:04 Speaker 03 I think there have been so many ruptures in the last number of years. Specifically, some of the children have grown up, starting with the pandemic, where they were not even able to go to school, or were going to daycare school masked. I remember little two-year-olds with their masks. And that created a lot of social issues, as well as the stress at home at that time, because parents were trying to work, as well as juggling parenting and teaching, and teachers were trying to teach over video, which they had not done before. So I think it's been particularly challenging. And the uncertainties of the world.
4:47 Speaker 03 We are, get instantaneous news as adults. And that affects adults and our moods. And what, we are role models for children. So whatever we're feeling, it does trickle down to them as well.
5:02 Kim Mills? Your work emphasizes skills like problem solving, emotional regulation, proactive thinking, and building social connections. Can you talk about what you see as the foundational skills that kids need to be resilient?
5:17 Speaker 03 First and foremost is that they start feeling agency or control over what they can control and what they can't. Because we don't expect them to be able to control all the outside forces, or even what's going on in the family. But we want them to feel empowered, to make some little itty-bitty changes in their own life, which can then impact on that. And so, taking initiative and more of an action mindset helps promote ability to cope, as opposed to being passive and feeling helpless. So I think that's a foundational skill.
6:00 Kim Mills? What are some everyday things that parents and caregivers can do to help children build resilience?
6:06 Speaker 03 One of the factors that we know is self-regulation, being able to control your emotions, your behavior, your attention. And so, not only do we model it, but we help them calm down. First, we make sure they get enough sleep and that they're eating properly because if we don't get enough sleep, that really unravels everybody. I mean, you see with young children, they can fall apart and they might be hungry or tired, right? And so, we teach them the skills. We teach them like five finger breathing, to not breathe through their chest, but when
6:47 Speaker 03 they're upset, to be able to calm down and breathe through their tummies, which is sort of the natural way, but as we get older, we tend to breathe through our chest and even hyperventilate. So, calmness, and again, as role models, we show them that. We also teach kids simple muscle relaxation, like tense your fist, hold it, hold it, hold it, slowly relax, and you can feel the tension come out. And so, we can do it with young kids by pretending they're a turtle, for example, and turtles,
7:25 Speaker 03 when they get upset, right, they clench their little legs and arms, go into their shell, bring their heads in, and so we can tense the whole body like that, and then slowly the threats are gone, your arms and your legs can relax. A little bit older children can do it with just different muscle groups. So, we can teach them very specific skills, and we actually have videos illustrating this on the nonprofit has a website.
7:58 Speaker 03 Teachresilience.org and families can access five self-regulation videos that they can practice with their children or their teens or themselves.
8:09 Kim Mills? Yeah, I was gonna say, it sounds like resilience is something that the the parent, the teacher, the caregiver needs to have as well. If you yourself don't have resilience, how can you impart it to the child?
8:19 Speaker 03 Absolutely, and resilience isn't all or nothing. So it's not like you have resilience or you don't. You might be more resilient at certain times in your life or in certain areas. The key is to keep building it. But you're right, the more families have, the better off the children are because, again, we model. So much is communicated non-verbally. Kids feel things, they sense things. And what's really wonderful and what's exciting all these years for me about resilience is that we can actually learn these skills. It is not, like Anne Mastin calls it, ordinary magic,
9:01 Speaker 03 which I think is a great frame because it's not, it is reachable. We can all do it.
9:07 Kim Mills? Which leads me to the question of whether there are some kids who are just born resilient or do all children need to learn resilience?
9:15 Speaker 03 Again, it's not all or nothing. I think there are children who are temperamentally able to calm themselves more easily than others. Some have talents and attributes that may also help them. But the bottom line is, everyone can build it. And in various areas, for example, school and academics might not be a strain. Well, hey, then we look at what other areas are you good at or even interested? So it's building assets instead of a deficit model. Like, what's wrong with you? It's like, let's build it up.
9:55 Kim Mills? So for our listeners who might be parents or teachers or just people who are working with with children, how can they recognize when children are low on resilience? What should they be looking for in the way of behavior or other signals?
10:10 Speaker 03 Most common behaviors are, the warning signs are when suddenly there's a sudden change in behavior of any kind, a pattern that they've had. We also look, are they withdrawing? Are they withdrawing from family? Are they withdrawing from peers? Are they more lethargic? So we look at the behaviors to see what changes because they don't always say, "I'm sad" or "I'm upset" verbally, but we can look for this. And I think parents who are most resilient are also really good at tuning in to their
10:51 Speaker 03 children, as well as teachers who can tune in to the children who might seem quiet and doing fine, but there are these more subtle nuanced signs to look for.
11:03 Kim Mills? And say your kid decides one day, "I don't want to go to school anymore." You know, I mean, there could be those kinds of reactions where the child is telling you something, what do you as the parent do to try to probe and understand where that's coming from and then give the kid the tools to be able to confront whatever it is, say at school, that is giving them stress?
11:24 Speaker 03 You said it accurately in terms of what at school might be giving them stress. And so as parents, we learn to listen and reflect back and not judgmentally say, "You have to go to school." You know, there's no, you really want to probe and have a conversation with. Sometimes kids don't want to go to school because they worry about doing something wrong, or they've had a problem with a friend, or so many different things. And I'm wondering, you know, what's going on when you go to school? I also at the same time say, "What's going well when you're at school?"
12:07 Speaker 03 So we don't want to just focus on all the what's going not well because we're going to use what's going well to get them back to school quickly because we don't want it to turn into a school avoidance problem. We really do want to figure out, you know, what is the avoidance? You know, I'll just say this here, I don't believe that kids are lazy. You know, years ago, I would hear, "Oh, he's just lazy, he's not doing it." No, it may be that it's hard. And what we've found out in the practice is that sometimes learning is hard for some kids and they're not, and they're feeling bad about it, but they're not saying it. But they're doing enough that it's not being picked up on.
12:48 Speaker 03 By the teachers, but in terms of their own set of expectations, they feel bad.
12:55 Kim Mills? We hear a lot these days about grit being something that helps kids succeed. Is there a difference between resilience and grit? How are the two concepts related, if they are?
13:07 Speaker 03 Some people use them interchangeably. There are differences. Angela Duckworth has defined grit as perseverance, sticking to goals. And resilience is really a broad set of skills. So it would encompass sticking to things and feeling like you have the capacity and the ability to do it. You know, I can try, I can keep doing this, I can do it better.
13:35 Speaker 03 So I think resilience, from at least my vantage point, is a little bit broader. But it certainly incorporates grit as well as other terms that have been used, like hardiness, which is really, you know, seeing up or challenges as opportunities and not as dead ends. You know, and that's where the problem solving comes in and the perspective comes in. And that's all part of what we teach when we teach resilience skills.
14:06 Kim Mills? So speaking of teaching resilience skills, how should adults respond when they see kids who are struggling or failing? I mean, what kinds of reactions are going to support resilience and what kinds are going to undermine it?
14:20 Speaker 03 Understanding what are barriers for them, like what's getting in the way. So a standard question I have is, what's getting in the way of you doing X, Y, or Z? You know, and it's not just school. It might be they don't want to engage in sports because perhaps they're afraid of failing. So they don't even want to try. You know, we call that like all or nothing thinking. You're either you're perfect at it, which there is no such thing as perfect, or you're fantastic. And so we try as parents, as teachers, to Help them understand sort of modulated, realistic thinking.
15:04 Speaker 03 It's looking at what is getting in the way and what helps them overcome. Because again, we're always balancing understanding and listening for and watching for signs where kids are not able to do something with at the same time what they are able to do.
15:24 Kim Mills? Is there a role for technology when it comes to building resilience in kids?
15:29 Speaker 03 The way I see it is that many platforms can allow practice of skills. Now, technology is a tool and we won't go into all of the privacy issues, the concerns that may be there for safety, but as a tool well done, it can be used to practice. We actually use technology to, for kids who are selectively mute or very shy or socially anxious, for them to practice speaking a little bit louder, making the eye contact and getting that feedback, watching videos, which is a simple technology now, right?
16:13 Speaker 03 As opposed to a platform, practicing texting, because that is a way that most teens nowadays communicate. They don't call each other on the phone as much. They tend to text or, you know, have other means through different platforms that they're using. So I think monitored and in balance, it can be used because we know practicing skills makes them better. That doesn't make them perfect because we're not trying to achieve perfection, but practice can make things better. So if you have a platform, you know, we can use it.
16:52 Kim Mills? A moment ago, you mentioned the pandemic and the problems that it sort of instilled in all of us as we had to deal with isolation and so forth. Are kids bouncing back since the pandemic ended?
17:03 Speaker 03 I think so. You know, I know there were some concerns about academic lags, but I think at this point, a few years later, it is important for families to engage kids socially, in person, and balance with activities. And I think the academics, hopefully, schools are in tune so that they can really get kids up to par if they have fallen behind. We talk about stress and depression and anxiety increasing. We're also better at diagnosing these things. So again, it's, has everything gotten worse?
17:45 Speaker 03 Or are we just better at identification in many cases? And identifying perhaps what are the lags? What are the absence of some skills and penetrating them?
17:58 Kim Mills? We're going to take a short break. When we return, I'll talk with Dr. Alward about how she and her colleagues are bringing resilience-building programs to schools and classrooms.
18:09 Speaker 00 This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.
18:34 Speaker 01 This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. You can go deep, keep it on the ground, or draw up something nobody sees coming. And whether you want to run a flea flicker or the tush push, you need a plan to fit your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you, so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.
19:06 Kim Mills? Let's talk about your Resilience Builder Program and your nonprofit organization, Resilience Across Borders. So, these are used to bring your tools into schools. How does that work? How many schools are using the program? And what does it look like in everyday use?
19:25 Speaker 03 We were doing the Resilience Builder Program, which is a small group program in the practice since 1992, so for many years. And we did research on that and found positive outcomes. We decided we wanted to scale it. And with the founding of the nonprofit, we are going into economically marginalized schools first. And we did a five-year randomized controlled trial in a fairly large school system in the DC area. We had, I think at that point, several hundred children that participated in the research because it was a small group.
20:09 Speaker 03 We had to end the research, but fortunately, we had five years in, so it was okay. We had enough data, right when the pandemic started. And we got amazing results. You know, I mean, we were targeting resilience, but we also found not only did they have a better sense of self-mastery and agency over their life, control over some things, but they also increased academic motivation and classroom engagement, you know, personal skills and study skills. So that made our hearts sing because, you know, we weren't targeting those specifically, but it made a lot of sense.
20:51 Speaker 03 Because if you increase your capacity and you feel like you're in more control of your life, then you're more willing to take risks. And classrooms are risk, speaking up. You know, making a mistake, all of those are risks. And then, actually, right before the pandemic, one of the principals said, you know, this is great. We're actually seeing behavioral changes in kids based on the program. But I don't want it just for these small groups. I would like all the classrooms to get. So we've adapted a group from Alvord Baker and Resilience Cross Borders and Catholic University.
21:32 Speaker 03 We adapted the original Resilience Builder Program so that teachers could lead. First, what we did, though, is we surveyed teachers to ask them, what's realistic? Like, how much time could you devote to a program like this? What would you want? And what do you think families could use? So they said, uh, videos would be great, short videos, activities, some handouts. And the parent component, which is what we did with the original Resilience Builder Program, newsletters for parents to teach them what the skills are.
22:11 Speaker 03 So we also hired a media specialist who could target fifth grade, which is where we started, um, books that would correspond to the lessons. So the newsletters for parents, which are, or families, which are free and also on the teachresilience.org website, there's 12 of them, they're in English and Spanish, to also increase more access. And again, last year, we felt we went into a different school system. And we got results of kids showing that they, um, it was a short questionnaire for children and fifth graders, but we also expanded this year to fourth graders.
22:54 Speaker 03 And hopefully we'll expand a little bit more and then do some longitudinal data as well eventually. But the questions are about, you know, do they feel they can adapt to changes? And can they handle difficulties? And the pilot results were statistically significant, for those of you, um, who are, who care about the data, showed that. And also, teachers, again, found that academic motivation and classroom engagement and interpersonal skills increased. Now, this year, We're doing fourth and fifth grade in, I think, about eight schools with almost
23:38 Speaker 03 six, almost 700 children. The ones who participate in the research and their whole classes get, the classes are randomly assigned, so everyone gets the program, even if you didn't sign up for the research. And if you're a control group, you get it in the spring. So we wanted to make sure that everyone has access to all these skills. And again, we are training teachers and they are 25, 15-minute lessons. So it's broken down, so it's doable with videos, activities, and then the 12 topics
24:20 Speaker 03 have the parent, family, caregiver newsletters, and the self-regulation videos are also available to them. So we tried to do a multimedia, even with the videos, we tried to make them diverse so all kids could see themselves in there, not just skin color and hairstyle, but eyeglasses, wheelchairs. And then we made the fonts so that children with any reading disabilities or reading difficulties, they're compatible for them as well.
24:54 Kim Mills? So it sounds like you're focusing largely on elementary school-age children at this point, is that correct?
25:00 Speaker 03 That is correct in terms of the research and what we call the Resilience Builder Program Universal, because we started with that group, and particularly fifth grade, because that's such a pivotal year before they go into middle school. So we really wanted to target that and now scaling down to fourth grade. But my writings, my workbooks are really geared toward teens, because I want to give them those same skills and help them as well. It's harder to do some of the research in teachers in elementary schools, you know, the classes are more cohesive.
25:42 Speaker 03 And middle school, you get about eight different teachers and you know, so but we we move into that because the resilience skills are really universal. I want to put out a shout out APA actually has on the website, it's called Building Student Resilience and several of us during the pandemic and then we updated it last six months ago, put out lessons for teachers, but parents can tap into it as well. It's free and they are different skills of resilience as well. So all you have to do is go to the APA website,
26:23 Speaker 03 search Building Student Resilience and it'll give you a little mini curriculum and it's for high school as well as elementary.
26:31 Kim Mills? How does it work within the curriculum? I mean, does a teacher say, okay, kids, and now we're going to talk about resilience? I mean, it's not really a topic like math or English or history. So how do you work it in?
26:44 Speaker 03 Some schools have social emotional learning built in. Other teachers say, and they do use the word resilience, you know, we're going to do a resilience lesson. Or we have framed some of this in terms of leadership skills. It's because some of the kids have been more and some of the families have been reluctant, but we also try to teach everybody what resilience means and that's a positive growth as well as leadership. So the teachers introduce it. There is the first video is what is resilience and why is it important? And it's three minutes so that they can really understand what it is and how can
27:29 Speaker 03 they build the muscles of resilience. And we really frame it that way, building the muscles of resilience. You know, you have to build, you have to eat and sleep to build your physical muscles and do exercise. Well, you can also build your, your muscles of coping with problems or challenges that you face, small ones or big ones or ones in between.
27:53 Kim Mills? Can you tell us a little bit about your personal story? I mean, what drew you to the topic of children and resilience?
28:01 Speaker 03 Well, I have been a child and adolescent psychologist from the beginning. I just, I love children. I love the fact that they are amenable and can change. What prompted the specific resilience was in the 1980s, going back then. I was asked to give talks on strength-based curriculum and strategies. And what we discovered particularly then, a lot of children were being adopted from Eastern Europe and having a lot of difficulties. And so I was giving many, many talks to parents in terms of how they could build.
28:42 Speaker 03 My personal story is that my parents and grandparents were actually born in Russia. And I grew up speaking Russian at home. My maternal grandfather was imprisoned by Stalin as a capitalist, but they were able to leave. And they went to Iran, which was very different, new language, completely different culture. But there was an Armenian community that people helped each other acclimate. But still, it was a huge shock. And then in the 1940s, before I was born, they came to the United States. But we retained the Russian language.
29:22 Speaker 03 So when children were adopted in, from Russia in the early 90s, I started working with many of them and framing it as, yes, maybe they're coming with difficult, some very extreme, especially in the beginning, including like orthopedic problems and, you know, many challenges. Let's, let's build what they have because they're survivors. And I think watching my family go through having to leave everything in a country, go to another country that was completely different, learn the language. You know, get jobs and then again, a third time, having to come to this country.
30:03 Speaker 03 And but they were seeking the the freedom that, you know, the United States offered. And um, we're happy, but it took a it took a toll on the family. So, you know, I think I was inspired by that. And I was also inspired by seeing all these children who were adopted coming to a land where their new families didn't speak the language that they spoke and adapting and um, thriving.
30:32 Kim Mills? Do you know how many kids you've reached with the program so far? Do you have a ballpark?
30:37 Speaker 03 So this year it'll be seven, eight hundred. Last year it was about six, seven hundred because we also are in two after-school programs in DC that they're not doing research. And prior to that, it was about five, so a few thousand, and we hope to reach more. The other aspect of this is I do trainings and um, on resilience for different school systems. So during the pandemic, I did many trainings for West Virginia School System, for example, and they've incorporated the Resilience Builder Program. So we don't have numbers, but it, in terms of what we have impacted, it's several thousand.
31:20 Speaker 03 And we know it's also been done in abroad, in Portugal, Singapore. So it's a universal concept that can be brought universally to everyone, children, teens, and adults alike.
31:36 Kim Mills? So just to wrap up, what's next for uh, resilience across borders and any research that you might still be doing?
31:42 Speaker 03 So the research now is the randomized controlled trial. We'll be um, wrapping that up in February, although the kids will still be receiving uh, the program until the end of the year. And and next steps are either to scale down to a little lower grade and or do longitudinal data. As far as the nonprofit goes, we really want to reach out further, do trainings to teachers, hopefully at some point to actually incorporate it in teacher education. Before they become teachers, so it's part of something that they are familiar with and comfortable with.
32:25 Speaker 03 And trainings for professionals as well, as well as writing, you know, with Catholic University and the research team at Albert Baker, we publish in professional peer-reviewed journals. I've written a couple of chapters as well. So disseminating to professionals, but my heart is mostly in terms of disseminating to the public. So these skills can reach everyone's lives.
32:54 Kim Mills? Well, Dr. Alvord, I want to thank you so much for joining me today. This has been very interesting.
32:59 Speaker 03 Thank you so much for having me.
33:01 Kim Mills? You can find previous episodes of Speaking of Psychology on our website at speakingofpsychology.org or on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you like what you've heard, please follow us and leave a review. If you have comments or ideas for future podcasts, you can email us at [email protected] . Speaking of Psychology is produced by Lee Weinerman. Thank you for listening. For the American Psychological Association, I'm Kim Mills.
34:23 Speaker 01 Football has a play for just about everything. You can go deep, keep it on the ground, or draw up something nobody sees coming. And whether you want to run a flea flicker or the tush push, you need a plan to fit your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.
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