Greatest Hits Vol. 4: The Best of 2024

🇺🇸 Watch United States of Anxiety Exclusively on the Free Ramsey Network App! On today’s episode, we revisit the most epic calls of the year, including: · A girlfriend who found out the man she was dating is married · A husband unsure if his wife is having an emotional affair · A man with unwanted fantasies hindering intimacy with his wife Next Steps: 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼The Dr. John Delony Show T-Shirts Connect With Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. 🌿 Get up to 40% off at Cozy Earth with code DELONY. 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. 😇 Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial. 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 💪 Get 25% off your order at Thorne. 🥤 Get 20% off at Organifi with code DELONY. 🏔️ Use code DELONY at Poncho Outdoors. Listen to More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy https://www.ramseysolutions.com/company/policies/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Dr. John Delony?

  We're running the best of the best calls of 2024. Kelly, you know some of the ones off the top of your H E A D?

• 0:10Speaker 01

  First one is, I didn't know my boyfriend was married. They are getting ready to move in together.

• 0:15Dr. John Delony?

  Whoa-oh.

• 0:16Speaker 01

  The last one was a man who fantasizes about other women while having sex with his wife.

• 0:21Dr. John Delony?

  Start the new year off right.

• 0:30Dr. John Delony?

  Happy New Year. Happy New Year.

• 0:36Dr. John Delony?

  I am not here. I'm recording this way in the past. So I'm assuming 2025 rolled around. We made it. We made it. New Year's is my favorite time of the year. My favorite, favorite, favorite, favorite time of the year. Because the whole world just says, eh, you get a mulligan on that one. You can literally say anything like, man, last year I really did a lot of drugs and burned a lot of houses down, but like hashtag New Year. And everyone's like, yeah, you go. So I love New Year's. You just like, everybody's like, Ctrl, Alt, Delete, let's try again. And I love it. I love it. So if you're listening today, I'm glad that you're here, starting your new year off right. And we're gonna run a best of. We're running a best of the best calls of 2024. Kelly, you know some of the ones off the top of your H E A D?

• 1:21Speaker 01

  I do. Well, also because I have them written right here.

• 1:24Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, I was gonna say, yeah, cuz, cuz it's setting in. Kelly's starting to slow down. I'm glad you got them written down. What's up?

• 1:32Speaker 01

  All right, so this one was, the first one is, I didn't know my boyfriend was married. They are getting ready to move in together.

• 1:38Dr. John Delony?

  Whoa-oh.

• 1:39Speaker 01

  And do you remember how she, how she found out?

• 1:41Dr. John Delony?

  No.

• 1:43Speaker 01

  It's pretty good. Let's just say she and the wife came face to face.

• 1:46Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, eh-oh.

• 1:48Speaker 01

  And then the next one was, is my wife having an affair with the neighbor? And I think we all agree the answer was a definite yes.

• 1:53Dr. John Delony?

  Well, yes.

• 1:54Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 1:55Dr. John Delony?

  I remember leaving being like, yes.

• 1:56Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah, we all know that clearly. And then the last one was a man who fantasizes about other women while having sex with his wife. So there you go. Happy New Year, people.

• 2:07Dr. John Delony?

  Start the new year off right.

• 2:12Dr. John Delony?

  Man, I was...

• 2:16Dr. John Delony?

  Sometimes I leave this show in one of two ways. I leave the show like, I just exhale. And sometimes I'll text my wife and just be like, "Just so you know, we're doing great. We're doing great." And then other times, people call in and they're like, "Hey, I'm wondering if my, like, wife's having an affair." And they roll through, like, what's going on. And it's like, "A thousand percent yes, how do you not see that?" But then it makes me wonder, like, what are the things in my life that I'm just super unaware of? I'm sure y'all have lists.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  Are you wanting me to, like, to go through the list right now?

• 2:51Dr. John Delony?

  Hey, everybody, check it out. The best show, like, the three top shows of 2024. Happy New Year. If nothing else, it will remind you, you're probably doing pretty good. Check it out.

• 3:04Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's go out to Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds in Pittsburgh. Hey, what's up, Lucy?

• 3:10Speaker 02

  Hi, thank you so much for taking time to talk to me today. I appreciate it. How are you?

• 3:14Dr. John Delony?

  I'm great. Thank you for taking time to call in. What's up?

• 3:18Speaker 02

  So, um, I started a relationship with someone. I do happen to work with them. And it was over the course of a year. And things progressed, um, even got to the point where we wanted to move in together and signed a lease. And I knew this person was married, but it was explained to me that they were separated. I didn't understand that it was capital M married.

• 3:47Dr. John Delony?

  Lucy, you have to lead with that.

• 3:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:50Dr. John Delony?

  Lead with that. You did such a good job bearing the lead.

• 3:54Speaker 02

  So, I, I did know that, but I, I was under the understanding that they were separated and beginning the process of divorce, which, you know, hindsight's 2020. I realized that divorce should come first before anything else.

• 4:07Dr. John Delony?

  No way, no way.

• 4:10Speaker 02

  So, I mean, it, yeah, I, I didn't understand the situation at the time and was just kind of rolling with it. And, um...

• 4:18Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, but you understand it now, though, right?

• 4:21Speaker 02

  Yes, of course.

• 4:22Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so this guy sucks and he's, he's untrustworthy and he's cheated on one, he'll cheat on you, and so we're moving on, right?

• 4:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I guess that's, that's the, the question is, is how to move on. So, you know, he still talks to me. He still says that he has the same feelings and wants the same thing.

• 4:45Dr. John Delony?

  Why does he have any contact with you?

• 4:48Speaker 02

  We work together, so we're around each other.

• 4:51Dr. John Delony?

  I've been in some pretty cold work relationships. I work with Kelly. I've been in some pretty cold, like, work relationships.

• 5:00Speaker 02

  It's hard not to hold space in your life.

• 5:05Speaker 02

  It's hard to let go of, I'm not gonna lie.

• 5:06Dr. John Delony?

  No, it's super hard, but you still want it to happen?

• 5:10Speaker 02

  In my perfect dream world, yes. I understand that perfect dream worlds don't exist. I love a good story, I guess. Um, and it's hard when someone's still saying all these things to you not to hold space in your life for them. And I'm afraid that I'll pass up on good things because in the back of my head I'll always weigh them.

• 5:32Dr. John Delony?

  There's no good here.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:34Dr. John Delony?

  Can I tell you an alternative, um, hypothesis?

• 5:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 5:39Dr. John Delony?

  I think you are upset slash confused as to who you've become. And it's easy to connect to, um, I have a close buddy who had an affair, was such a left turn for him. In a million years, would never be that guy. And instantly wrapped up in that relationship to try to make that work because that was the only path

• 6:07Dr. John Delony?

  to, um, redemption in his, in his mind. I have a friend who's a woman who just completely poured her soul out to some, like, it, it happens all the time where I can't believe I've become this. Like, and you're, and you never set out to be somebody who would be the other woman, who would date a married man, fall in love with him, sign a lease with him. And then there's this picture in your mind when you look in the mirror of, oh, you're the kind of woman who does that.

• 6:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:34Dr. John Delony?

  And so now you have a vested interest in somehow making this thing work with this guy to almost to, to wrap your, to build a wall around the collateral damage here. And I tell you, I the lack of character of this man is so powerful. Cause it's not like he had a workplace crush. It's not like he got in over his head. It's not like he had a, a one-time affair.

• 6:57Dr. John Delony?

  He took someone along his fantasy ride. He used you so badly. And by the way, you used him after you found out. Cause he becomes a way to get fully emotionally invested without ever crossing a line. Right? Cause you know, he's anchored at home. The whole thing is zero good that can come from this.

• 7:19Speaker 02

  That's a very fair, fair assessment. Um, yeah, I, I don't know how to break that connection in my brain. I don't know.

• 7:30Dr. John Delony?

  You have to cut it off. It's like, it's like stopping drinking. You can't just keep going to the same bar.

• 7:37Speaker 02

  Right.

• 7:37Dr. John Delony?

  You can't have alcohol in your house. I've got friends who've been in recovery for 20 years and they can be around it all day long. It doesn't bother them at all. But that first, that first couple of years, it's, it's scorched earth. I can't be around the same people. I can't go to the same places.

• 7:52Dr. John Delony?

  And at some level, you have to get some, some, um, some, whether you have to manufacture it or you have to just let it go. I can't believe you're not enraged at what a lying sack of crap this guy is.

• 8:08Speaker 02

  That is what I, that is what I hear a lot is people are like, I can't believe you don't hate him and I don't.

• 8:14Dr. John Delony?

  No, it's not hate. It's rage. Like hate's kind of a waste of time. I'm, I'm talking about like, like a guy that would sign a lease with you.

• 8:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. Take it that far.

• 8:28Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 8:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's disgusting to me and I didn't find everything out until after the fact. Cause.

• 8:36Dr. John Delony?

  Can I tell you something? You still don't know everything. Cause I promise you, he tells his wife something different than he's telling you.

• 8:43Speaker 02

  Oh, I would bet my life on it.

• 8:45Dr. John Delony?

  Promise.

• 8:48Speaker 02

  Would bet my life on it?

• 8:49Dr. John Delony?

  I don't talk to that woman at work. She's kind of crazy. She follows me around everywhere. She always is texting. Um, all I want to do is be with you. We've built this life together. This, I, I work with a crazy person, but I can't get a new job right now. You're the other story. But you can't control that other story. You can't control what a spineless, lying coward he is. You can't control what kind of spineless, lying coward you are. Stop. Stop.

• 9:19Speaker 02

  I think, I think the picture I was painted in the story I was originally sold, like it's hard to attach those words to that person, but I have to like

• 9:29Dr. John Delony?

  That's right.

• 9:30Speaker 02

  realize that that person doesn't exist.

• 9:32Dr. John Delony?

  Ah, there you go. You created somebody in the world and you backfilled it with that dude.

• 9:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent.

• 9:41Dr. John Delony?

  But you also haven't done the hard work to backfill reality with you. You're a woman who's continuing to be attached to a married man.

• 9:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 9:54Dr. John Delony?

  And I think you're worth more than that. I think you're better than that. Does that make sense?

• 9:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. Thank you for saying that.

• 10:00Dr. John Delony?

  Do you?

• 10:03Speaker 02

  I, I definitely struggle on the self-worth front, which is why I think I accept the treatment that I do and accept the situations that I'm admittedly in take full responsibility got myself into.

• 10:17Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, but I can hear you, I can hear you gulping it down. I want you to, to stop. I want you to feel it because you're really good at passing over how much all this hurts.

• 10:28Dr. John Delony?

  Is that fair? It's sitting right there at the top, isn't it?

• 10:31Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, it hurts. It hurts a lot.

• 10:36Dr. John Delony?

  Mm-hmm. It hurts that you were lied to and it hurts that you found yourself having acted like this person.

• 10:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, a hundred percent. And I don't like easily feel that way about people or, you know, commitment is definitely something I struggle with. So I just, I worked on that for the wrong person, the wrong situation, the wrong everything.

• 11:01Dr. John Delony?

  Well, here's another, here's a second alternative hypothesis. He was the safest person for somebody to get involved with who is commitment phobic.

• 11:12Dr. John Delony?

  Cause you can go all in and imagine this life and way deep down, you know, it's not going to come true because he's got a wife.

• 11:21Speaker 02

  Self-sabotage at its finest.

• 11:22Dr. John Delony?

  Well, and you've probably have a history of dating people who have built in, like have shown their true colors already as you're getting to know them. Or as you become involved with them and they leave you and this guy will find somebody to cheat on you with and leave you. And it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. And you'll say, see, I told you, Lucy.

• 11:49Speaker 02

  Fair, very fair, very accurate.

• 11:53Dr. John Delony?

  So you have to decide you're worth somebody, being somebody's only one.

• 12:00Dr. John Delony?

  Which means you have to risk getting hurt. And by the way, like just from a data perspective, you've proven it to yourself.

• 12:08Dr. John Delony?

  Like, that your way gets you hurt too.

• 12:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:15Dr. John Delony?

  So.

• 12:15Speaker 02

  It does, it does.

• 12:16Dr. John Delony?

  You can't fix anything that has happened up until this point. You can do the next right thing.

• 12:25Speaker 02

  And just completely cut contact and it's that's definitely gonna be a challenge because before anything turned into anything, this person it started out as friendship, which I'm sure you've heard a million, million times over and it, I didn't I didn't mean for it it sounds stupid. I didn't mean for it to get this far, but.

• 12:53Dr. John Delony?

  Of course not. Nobody does, man. That's, that's why, that's why I'm not screaming at you. And if the roles were reversed and he was on the phone, I'd be mad at him because he's married. Um, but nobody, nobody plans for it to get like this. I get that. But somebody has to call it at some point and not continue to fantasy train right off a cliff. Um, and by the way, you can't

• 13:15Dr. John Delony?

  I don't think you can make this switch long-term that doesn't come from a place that you believe in your bones that you're worth more than this.

• 13:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:24Dr. John Delony?

  Cause if you don't, you're gonna break up with them because you're pissed. Or you're angry, or like some indignant like, yeah. And that, it kinda like when there's like a great painter or musician and you walk up to him, you're like, I need you to know you changed my life. That's amazing. But that doesn't pay the light bill, right? Like, it'd be cool if you bought a record or a ticket. Similarly, you can break up with somebody because you're enraged. That doesn't make the 2am loneliness go away.

• 13:53Speaker 02

  Right.

• 13:55Speaker 02

  Right.

• 13:56Dr. John Delony?

  And you have to decide I'm worth it. It doesn't, that doesn't make the loneliness go away per se, but it does, it backfilled with a sense of virtue and character and worth.

• 14:10Dr. John Delony?

  You're just worth more than this man.

• 14:13Speaker 02

  Thank you for saying that, because I don't always feel like it.

• 14:16Dr. John Delony?

  I know you don't.

• 14:20Dr. John Delony?

  I know you don't.

• 14:25Speaker 02

  I go, I go to therapy, I work on it, but...

• 14:28Dr. John Delony?

  I know, but you don't...

• 14:29Speaker 02

  I'm like trying to...

• 14:30Dr. John Delony?

  What does your therapist say? What has your therapist said about all of this?

• 14:34Speaker 02

  Um, that... I don't know, it was a cruel thing to do to someone. Um... I didn't find out about everything until after a lease was signed, we were making lease payments. It was like, when he was supposed to move in, that things got weird. And that's when I was like, something's not right. So I went to his house, and that's how I kind of found everything out.

• 14:59Dr. John Delony?

  Did his wife answer the door?

• 15:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:02Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, for real? I was kind of joking.

• 15:04Speaker 02

  She was like, "Who are you?", and I was like, "I, I... I think we need to talk about some things, because I don't think I understand what's going on, and I don't think you know what's going on."

• 15:15Dr. John Delony?

  God, Lucy, lead with that next time, that's awesome! That's great radio. Alright, so, did y'all get in a fistfight out in the parking lot? What happened?

• 15:23Speaker 02

  No, she was so oddly calm about it.

• 15:28Dr. John Delony?

  Cause you're not the first one! Alright, so...

• 15:31Speaker 02

  No, I wasn't, and he told me that, you know, obviously, uh... Uh, like I said, I thought they were separated, and he was like, "I, I've never stepped out on my marriage", like, blah, blah, blah. Um, and she was like, "Obviously, by my reaction, you can tell that this has happened before, it's never gone this far, but it's happened before." And, um, that's not even the end of the saga, so that all happened. And he's like, "Well, everything's out in the open now, so I can actually leave." He ends up bringing a bag to the house that we signed for, and then tells me, "It's over, they're getting divorced, whatever", and then he leaves. And I have to go back, and be like, "She sent people to my house to look for him",

• 16:16Speaker 02

  and I was like, "But what the hell is going on?", like, I, I can't believe anything that's being said, and... So, her and I confronted him together.

• 16:29Dr. John Delony?

  Oh.

• 16:29Speaker 02

  And...

• 16:30Dr. John Delony?

  God, I wish we would've had that on record, that would've been awesome.

• 16:33Speaker 02

  I did record it.

• 16:35Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, did you?

• 16:36Speaker 02

  I don't think anyone knows that, but my phone was on in my pocket. Um, just for my own sake, I guess.

• 16:42Dr. John Delony?

  Did his other girlfriends come too, or is it just y'all two?

• 16:45Speaker 02

  Just us.

• 16:46Dr. John Delony?

  Awesome.

• 16:47Speaker 02

  Just us. I don't, I don't know the other two that I...

• 16:52Dr. John Delony?

  That y'all know of.

• 16:53Speaker 02

  But...

• 16:53Dr. John Delony?

  Here's the deal.

• 16:54Speaker 02

  Well, my... Yeah.

• 16:56Dr. John Delony?

  Right now, I want you to take out your phone. I want you to delete his contact.

• 17:01Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 17:03Dr. John Delony?

  Do it like right now.

• 17:05Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 17:06Dr. John Delony?

  Put me on speaker and do it.

• 17:11Speaker 02

  Alright, it's gone.

• 17:12Dr. John Delony?

  It's gone.

• 17:13Speaker 02

  It's gone.

• 17:14Dr. John Delony?

  The moment this call is over, I want you to send him an email on your work email.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 17:21Dr. John Delony?

  That says, "I'm cutting off contact with you. I don't want to talk to you electronically. I don't want you to call me. I don't want you to text me. I don't want you to email me anymore. If you do, I'll consider it harassment and a violation of our professional working relationship. Send."

• 17:38Speaker 02

  I like that. You're so...

• 17:39Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. You're fair?

• 17:41Speaker 02

  I wish I had you on tap all the time.

• 17:43Dr. John Delony?

  You don't. Trust me, I'm a mess. But right now, I'm doing alright.

• 17:47Dr. John Delony?

  But hold on, you're then gonna have to, you're gonna be empty.

• 17:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:52Dr. John Delony?

  And you're gonna have to backfill that with friendships.

• 17:56Dr. John Delony?

  You're gonna have to backfill that with other people that you call.

• 18:01Dr. John Delony?

  And you're gonna have to deal with the hollowness that you feel because you became somebody that you don't respect.

• 18:08Speaker 02

  No, I don't at all.

• 18:10Dr. John Delony?

  I'm telling you from the outside, you're worthy of that respect, but you gotta, you gotta act different. You gotta be someone who doesn't date married men.

• 18:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. My first and last, I swear.

• 18:23Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. We're done?

• 18:25Speaker 02

  We're done. We learned a lot. Unfortunately, the hard way, but that's how I seem to do things.

• 18:30Dr. John Delony?

  We did. And by the way, going back to the friendship stuff, you lost him as like a friend, just for whatever it's worth, like, my non, I was about to say my non-sexual friends. That's, that's all but one. My, my friends who are not, like, there's no romantic interest or whatever, I don't hang out with people. I hang out with guys that are questionable on a lot of fronts. I love them, but they're, man, they make different choices than me. But I don't hang out with dudes who cheat on their wives. I just don't. Like, I just don't. I hang out with people who make mistakes, and I hang out with people who say they're sorry, and I hang out with people who, any number of different values than me, different beliefs than me.

• 19:15Dr. John Delony?

  But forget the romantic part. Don't be around this dude because he's the kind of scumbag that cheats on his wife. He's the kind of scumbag that continually, over and over, destroys the humans in his life.

• 19:30Dr. John Delony?

  I'm just not gonna be around that kind of person.

• 19:34Dr. John Delony?

  I'll walk with them if they say they want to get better, they want to change their life, but that's just as a, as a rule of life, man. There's, life is too short and there's too many amazing people out there trying to do the next right thing.

• 19:47Dr. John Delony?

  Today's your Independence Day, my friend Lucy. Today's your day of freedom. And today's the day you've got to deal with a lot of hard stuff, including the things that you've done and you've, and the person that you were becoming. But we're going to become something different starting today. Hang on the line, I'm gonna send you a copy of Building a Non-Anxious Life. It's gonna be my gift to you. But if you call them, or you respond to a text message, or if he emails you and you don't send it on to HR, um, you have to send the book back. You won't, but that's my rule. Thanks for the call, Lucy. We're rooting for you.

• 20:21Dr. John Delony?

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• 21:50Dr. John Delony?

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• 21:58Dr. John Delony?

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• 22:43Dr. John Delony?

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• 23:16Dr. John Delony?

  Hey Joe, what's up?

• 23:17Speaker 03

  Yes, sir. How are you? Thank you for taking my call.

• 23:20Dr. John Delony?

  You got it. What's up, brother?

• 23:21Speaker 03

  Um, um, nothing much. So, pretty much, um, I found my wife in an emotional affair with my neighbor for over a year now. Um, I found out a couple weeks ago. I looked through the call logs on the phone. Um, I knew something was going on between the two of them. I confronted him three times and I confronted her. I'm being honest with you, it was probably two to three times a day. We would consecutively argue about it. Um, he would buy my son clothing for school and just stuff for his room and he would cook my wife dinner a lot. And, uh, in front of me, they had nicknames and everybody denied it.

• 24:04Speaker 03

  And, um, I'm having a hard time believing her in anything she says. Her, uh, mother passed away about two years ago and she was swearing on her, um, deceased mother and our son that nothing was going on. And then when I confronted her, it was my, it was the blame was on my end and things weren't good and, um, it's been going on for about a year. We were in couples therapy starting this January. I was unaware of everything, but I knew something was off in the marriage and I was trying to make it better. And, um, I can't even get away because he is at my home, he's next to me at home and he is, um,

• 24:46Speaker 03

  there when I go to the gym, at the same gym. So I can't even have an escape that way. And I'm not sure where to begin. I'm not even sure where my head is at. I can't trust anybody. And this is where I'm stuck at right now.

• 24:58Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, dude, that's a terrifying place to be, man. I'm sorry.

• 25:01Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. That's okay.

• 25:02Dr. John Delony?

  Hey, it's not okay, man. It's not. You don't gotta make me feel better. I'll just sit here with you.

• 25:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it.

• 25:10Dr. John Delony?

  Do you have little ones?

• 25:12Speaker 03

  I do. I have one three-year-old son.

• 25:14Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, man.

• 25:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:18Speaker 03

  I'm not even, um, I, I, I don't wanna come home.

• 25:21Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 25:21Speaker 03

  Um, I, I, I literally can't get away and she said that she broke it off with him and, um, uh, our houses are so close, you, if I, you know, put a hammer through the wall, you can probably see his living room, that's how, you know, we're, we're right next door.

• 25:35Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 25:35Speaker 03

  Um, but, and, uh, you know, she said that she broke it off. And then about two weeks ago, um, I asked her, we were just talking and I asked her what she had for dinner and she said that she didn't eat and this is something little, but it's just the fact that it happened, she said that she didn't, um, have dinner cause she wasn't hungry, cause of everything going on. And then I got home, um, I work late and I, I got home that morning and, uh, there was food and that was not ours and how I know is cause it was on a paper plate that was not ours in the garbage and she wasn't honest with me again. And, um, he keeps talking to her and saying hi and, um, yeah, and they, they both said

• 26:17Speaker 03

  that it was nothing sexual, but I don't believe the two of them because like I said, he, I confronted him three times about it and my wife twice a day for, two, three times a day for the last year, so.

• 26:36Dr. John Delony?

  Man, um, there's not a good, there's not like a, it's not written in a textbook somewhere what the next move is.

• 26:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:45Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 26:45Speaker 03

  I understand.

• 26:46Dr. John Delony?

  Um, so I'm gonna give you, with all of my, the time I've spent sitting with people who've had emotional affairs and full-blown sexual affairs and all, I'm like, my personal experience, all of it.

• 26:58Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 26:59Dr. John Delony?

  Um,

• 27:02Dr. John Delony?

  I would probably leave for thirty days.

• 27:05Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 27:09Dr. John Delony?

  Because here's the thing, your wife is just lying to you and lying to you and you're going crazy.

• 27:13Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:14Dr. John Delony?

  And it's hard to stay clear because every time you go to your, to the safest, what should be the safest place in the world, which is your home, you're in fight or flight the entire time.

• 27:23Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 27:24Dr. John Delony?

  And every time you go to work, you're in firefight.

• 27:26Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:27Dr. John Delony?

  And, um,

• 27:30Dr. John Delony?

  the other option would be, I'm gonna go stay in an apartment for 30 days and we're gonna put the house on the market.

• 27:35Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:36Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm gonna sell this house, because that's the only way you're gonna save your marriage.

• 27:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:40Dr. John Delony?

  And if she says, I think that's a great idea, let's do that, cool. And if she says, absolutely not, this is where we live, yada, yada, then she gets to make a choice. Do you want this, do you want to fight me for this home? Um, or we're gonna sell this home when we're the other, we're gonna sell it through, um, when the judge forces the sale of the home and we split the assets up? The equity up? Or we can sell it now and try to save our marriage?

• 28:01Speaker 03

  I, um, I don't mean to throw another curveball at you.

• 28:03Dr. John Delony?

  Throw them all, man, throw them all.

• 28:06Speaker 03

  So, this past February of this year, we, um, jointly filed bankruptcy. So, we could sell it, but as far as buying, I'm, I'm pretty sure we can't buy.

• 28:17Dr. John Delony?

  Well, you're past all that.

• 28:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. Um.

• 28:21Dr. John Delony?

  Joe, your wife is sleeping with your neighbor.

• 28:24Dr. John Delony?

  Period. End of story. You know that, I know that, they both know that.

• 28:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, and they would FaceTime too, I forgot to mention that.

• 28:33Dr. John Delony?

  Joe.

• 28:37Dr. John Delony?

  If you're done with this marriage, be done with this marriage. Uh, uh, uh, an important family death, um, bankruptcy, those are two of the, of the most powerful stressors on a marriage.

• 28:48Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 28:49Dr. John Delony?

  An affair? I mean, you, you've got like, you're, it's the, the trifecta.

• 28:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:56Dr. John Delony?

  But now you're at a place where you keep coming back to drink more poison and more poison and more poison. And I don't even he, I haven't heard you once say, I am desperately in love with this woman and I want to try to save this marriage. I hear you pissed.

• 29:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm, I'm, um, I thought I was past the anger stage and.

• 29:14Dr. John Delony?

  No, dude, your wife's cheating on you right, and your neighbor waves at you.

• 29:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:19Dr. John Delony?

  I'm afraid you're gonna end up in jail. You know why? Because I would.

• 29:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:23Dr. John Delony?

  I don't have the strength to go through what you're, what you're doing every day.

• 29:31Speaker 03

  I thought I made the right, honestly, I, I thought I made the right call staying from my son and, and try to work it out, but I'm just, I'm angry. I can't even look at her. It's like she, you know, she's trying in that aspect, but when I first found out, it was like the end of June and I, I, I just said a divorce, probably I'm going to say like two, two weeks ago, then that's when she started to change. And I'm like, well, you know, why did it take me to say a divorce? And, you know, I, I don't want to come home. I don't want to be around anybody. I'm, I'm angry. I'm upset. I, I can't, I can't believe anybody. I don't believe a word that she's saying, you know what I mean? Even though she's, she, she could be telling the truth very well.

• 30:09Dr. John Delony?

  Here's the deal. Here's what you have to, here's what you, the work you have to do.

• 30:12Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 30:13Dr. John Delony?

  What does the path to trust look like for you?

• 30:17Dr. John Delony?

  Cause let's say we can't sell the house. We are stuck here in this house. It's against the law for us to sell, which is not true, but let's just make up something. Okay?

• 30:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 30:24Dr. John Delony?

  What does trust look like? Trust looks like a no contact order.

• 30:30Dr. John Delony?

  Trust looks like you saying you are forbidden from coming on my property. And if you come on my property, you call my house again, you're on notice now, I'm going to file a harassment complaint.

• 30:40Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 30:41Dr. John Delony?

  And your wife cuts off everything. She throws her phone in the sink and lets it, and loses all contacts and starts completely over.

• 30:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:50Dr. John Delony?

  But here's the deal, bro. She did all this stuff and she, and he made her dinner and they had dinner together last night.

• 30:56Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 30:56Dr. John Delony?

  You know what I mean?

• 30:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, I understand.

• 30:59Dr. John Delony?

  You've heard me say this a thousand times, behavior is a language. She's being very clear with you.

• 31:03Speaker 03

  No, I understand.

• 31:06Dr. John Delony?

  And right now she's got a gravy train, which is you going off to work and then coming home. Does she work too?

• 31:12Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, she works during the day and then I work second shift from three to, um, midnight.

• 31:17Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 31:20Dr. John Delony?

  So y'all effectively never see each other and she has eight hours a day when she gets to spend with a man next door?

• 31:26Speaker 03

  That is correct.

• 31:26Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 31:29Speaker 03

  Yes, sir. Yeah, like one of the minute I leave for work, I leave the house around two and then that's when the calls would happen.

• 31:35Dr. John Delony?

  Of course.

• 31:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:37Dr. John Delony?

  Of course they would.

• 31:38Speaker 03

  I guess I'm just still processing this and I don't even know. Yeah.

• 31:42Dr. John Delony?

  But here's the deal. I'm afraid you're about to do something stupid. Will you promise me that you're not gonna go to jail?

• 31:48Speaker 03

  Of course. Yeah, I have a, I have a three year old and I can't.

• 31:51Dr. John Delony?

  Excellent. Excellent.

• 31:52Speaker 03

  I don't want to.

• 31:53Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 31:54Speaker 03

  I don't want to make it worse for anybody.

• 31:55Dr. John Delony?

  And for whatever it's worth, during a divorce proceeding, every one of her text messages will be subpoenaed. Every one of her emails will be subpoenaed, even the deleted ones.

• 32:04Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 32:04Dr. John Delony?

  Everything is on the table.

• 32:08Dr. John Delony?

  Okay? Yours too.

• 32:10Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 32:11Dr. John Delony?

  And so there's a chance you end up with full custody here because she doesn't want to be married to you.

• 32:15Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 32:21Speaker 03

  I mean, yeah, she's, I mean, she's a great mom and I, you know, I couldn't ask for a better mother that way.

• 32:26Dr. John Delony?

  Joe.

• 32:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:28Dr. John Delony?

  A great mom doesn't bring another man to the house every night.

• 32:31Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 32:33Speaker 03

  And our son, like, just to bring one more incident up, like, you know, we were painting our son's room and, um, we were in the middle of it and him and I started it and nothing was done and she got the next, the following day, she got to work at two. I left and I called her around my six thirty break time and, um, she said that the room was finished and done and, um, I didn't believe her because I know how much that takes, especially with a three year old by herself. And then, uh, you know, I get home that next day because I get home at night and I look at the room and it's, it's beautiful. Everything was cut in, all the corners and I look on the tarp and there was

• 33:15Speaker 03

  paintbrushes and rumors that I don't have and, um, our son consecutively says that, um, I don't want to say names, but, but, um, the neighbor, um, mommy and him were all painting the room and, um, she obviously denies it, but this is.

• 33:31Dr. John Delony?

  Joe.

• 33:32Speaker 03

  Yeah. I'm just.

• 33:34Dr. John Delony?

  You can hear it as you're saying it out loud, can't you?

• 33:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:40Dr. John Delony?

  Listen, like if we were in person, if I was sitting in Connecticut right now with you in New Haven, I was just there a few weeks ago. If I was there with you right now, I would stop the conversation and I'd give you a hug.

• 33:52Dr. John Delony?

  Cause I know the path is, it's in front of you is gnarly.

• 34:00Dr. John Delony?

  I'm sorry.

• 34:02Speaker 03

  Sorry.

• 34:05Dr. John Delony?

  I know miracles happen, but this sounds like your marriage is over and it sounds like now we're just waiting for somebody to be the adult and have the courage to do the next thing.

• 34:16Speaker 03

  Yeah. I guess that's what I was afraid of.

• 34:19Dr. John Delony?

  I know. I'm sorry. I hate it for you too.

• 34:23Speaker 03

  Sorry. It's just, um, it's, you know, loads of funny things. It's like, no matter how bad somebody hurts you, you just, you just don't stop them.

• 34:30Dr. John Delony?

  No, of course not. Of course not.

• 34:32Speaker 03

  I guess that's what I'm holding on to.

• 34:34Dr. John Delony?

  And dude, if she, if she was ready to fight and go to war for this marriage, dude, I'd be a thousand percent y'all could save this marriage.

• 34:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:41Dr. John Delony?

  No question about it. I have no question about it.

• 34:45Dr. John Delony?

  But everything starts with, I'm gonna tell you the truth.

• 34:49Dr. John Delony?

  And she can't do that and she won't do that.

• 34:55Dr. John Delony?

  And now we're at a place where she is teaching her son that we lie.

• 34:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:59Dr. John Delony?

  She's teaching her son that multiple men stay in this home.

• 35:07Dr. John Delony?

  And by the way, dude, Joe, just, just so you can see this from an outsider's perspective, cause I'm just a random dude in Nashville, Tennessee.

• 35:14Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 35:15Dr. John Delony?

  She's trying to send you a message. She's leaving trash in the trash. She's leaving rollers in the house.

• 35:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:23Dr. John Delony?

  She's not even trying. You know what I mean?

• 35:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

• 35:30Dr. John Delony?

  Like there's a lot of what I would call, um, infidelity gymnastics that people go through. Lots.

• 35:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:38Dr. John Delony?

  She's almost rubbing your nose in it or less like, less aggressively like letting you know this is happening. Ta-da. Right?

• 35:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:49Dr. John Delony?

  And maybe you tell her, I want you out of this house by the, in, in the next week. She's gotta move out.

• 35:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:57Dr. John Delony?

  Y'all figure that stuff out, but y'all, but I mean,

• 36:01Dr. John Delony?

  you can't continue to allow another man to come spend eight hours a day in your home with your wife and your child.

• 36:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:08Dr. John Delony?

  And that can be that you leave.

• 36:10Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 36:12Dr. John Delony?

  And then serve the papers or sit with an attorney or y'all go to mediation or whatever's it happens in Connecticut. Every state's different. Um, or she packs up and goes. Although I think your fear is she's just gonna go 20 yards next door.

• 36:27Speaker 03

  Um, yeah, um, yeah, I'm, I'm pretty sure that's, you know, that's what's gonna happen. And she told him that, you know, she wants nothing to do with him, but, um, you know, yesterday he was, they were outside and she took my son and her, um, uh, herself and my son and the dog for a walk. And when she went down the street, you know, he was staring at her and when he got back, you know, he's like, hey, how are you guys? And she's like, you know, good. How are you? And it's something little, but it's the, the fact that we're going through all this and it's like I, you know, my expectation is no, no contact and I shouldn't even have to say that if you're willing to work with somebody and her defense was we're neighbors, you know, what am I gonna say? We're gonna say hi and I'm like, okay, but our marriage is on the line.

• 37:09Dr. John Delony?

  Not a neighbor that you're having an affair with.

• 37:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:14Dr. John Delony?

  Right. Has she shown you the messages that she sent him that said, we are never gonna be in contact ever again? Stop contacting me effective immediately?

• 37:22Speaker 03

  No, sir. Apparently this is all verbal on our back deck.

• 37:25Dr. John Delony?

  Exactly. I want it in writing.

• 37:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:27Dr. John Delony?

  I want it in writing so that when you file a harassment complaint, that this man won't leave your wife alone?

• 37:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:33Dr. John Delony?

  He keeps, uh, coming over to the property line and staring at her. He keeps yelling at her, trying to say hello to her when she's trying to walk, uh, your child and the dog.

• 37:43Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 37:44Dr. John Delony?

  I want all in writing. I used to tell my college students, you have to put in writing through text message or email, do not contact me anymore. Period. And once that line is crossed, then it's harassment. Now we can get involved.

• 37:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's a good point. Okay.

• 38:00Speaker 03

  All right.

• 38:00Dr. John Delony?

  But I don't think she's gonna do it, Joe.

• 38:04Speaker 03

  I'm gonna have to agree with you there.

• 38:06Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so let's start, let's, let's get a group of people in your corner, whether that's a couple of close friends, whether that's a minister from your local church, whether that is an attorney that you're gonna sit with, a mental health professional, everybody.

• 38:22Dr. John Delony?

  Uh, maybe the path right now is to go sit with an attorney, because you've got a lot to untangle, whether with, with the bankruptcy, with child, with home equity, I don't know how any of that stuff works in Connecticut. So, having somebody, a professional, just to know what you're looking at here. And the whole time, I want you to spend some time with yourself in a local coffee shop, or on your breaks at work, or in the morning when your son is taking a nap,

• 38:47Dr. John Delony?

  figuring out what is a path back to trust, so that you can lay it down in front of her and say, this is what this looks like. We sell the house and we rent. Because I, I'd rather be married to you and rebuild this marriage than own a house.

• 39:03Dr. John Delony?

  Or you have to sever all contact forever and partridge in the pear tree, on and on and on and on and on.

• 39:10Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm gonna put cameras up in the house, and if this man steps on my property, I'm gonna have him a no trespass.

• 39:18Dr. John Delony?

  I don't want his plates in our home, and I don't want his paint rollers in our home, and I don't want his love and affection for you and our kid in our home.

• 39:27Dr. John Delony?

  It's our home, not his. But Joe, you gotta stop, I mean, I know you hear it, and it's, it's hard to even wrap your head around, oh, this is it. Like, my wife is choosing him, she's choosing dishonesty, she's choosing lying, and I'm so sorry.

• 39:44Dr. John Delony?

  Call back anytime, brother. You got a long, hard road ahead of you, and listen to me, just because it's painful doesn't mean it's not right. Whichever path you take.

• 39:56Dr. John Delony?

  This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This time of year, it's cold, it's dark, and most of us just want to stay inside and try to get cozy. On the rare nights when everyone is home at my house, I love to spend cozy nights in with my immediate family. We all get under some blankets and around the fire, and we either read some books out loud, or we watch a movie together. We laugh, annoy each other, and we all settle in. But often during the holidays, my family is scattered all around. They're traveling, we're working, or otherwise separated from each other. And I find myself alone, bummed out, and sometimes wishing I was somewhere else. Millions of you know this feeling of being bummed out, lonely, especially around the holidays. You're battling loneliness and grief, and you wish that your life was different.

• 40:42Dr. John Delony?

  If this sounds like you, I encourage you to reach out to a therapist today. Therapy can be a safe place to settle in and work through those emotions, replenish your energy, and take care of yourself. I recommend BetterHelp to help you find comfort during the chaos and stress and loneliness that can be attached to the holidays. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy, and you can talk with your therapist when it works for your schedule. You just get online and fill out a short survey to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Find comfort in this season with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, dot com, slash, deloney.

• 41:27Dr. John Delony?

  Hey Patrick, what's up?

• 41:29Speaker 04

  Hey John, I've got a question for you.

• 41:32Dr. John Delony?

  Bring it on, dude.

• 41:33Speaker 04

  So I've been married for about 14, almost 15 years now, and my wife and I have a great relationship, great marriage, we've got four kids. She's my soulmate, you know, we communicate well, everything is going great, we love each other. I've actually fallen in love with her more this year, and we're more intimate now than we ever have been in life.

• 41:55Dr. John Delony?

  Bro, you're setting this one up, man.

• 41:57Speaker 04

  I am, I am setting it up.

• 41:59Dr. John Delony?

  You're like, you're like making the shoe really high before you drop it.

• 42:03Speaker 04

  Yes, I am. So here's the problem.

• 42:05Dr. John Delony?

  All right, what's the other shoe? Drop it.

• 42:07Speaker 04

  I am not sexually attracted to my wife.

• 42:10Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 42:11Speaker 04

  And we have sex about two or three times a week, but I have to fantasize about other people and other situations in order to remain aroused and to perform for her. And I don't like it. I don't want to do this. I wish I could be aroused by her and have a more intimate and fulfilling sex life with her, but it's just not happening.

• 42:34Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 42:36Speaker 04

  What can I do about that?

• 42:44Dr. John Delony?

  So I feel like the preamble, all the stuff you told me up until this isn't true.

• 42:54Dr. John Delony?

  Because she doesn't know this.

• 42:59Dr. John Delony?

  And you told me you're more intimate than you've ever been. You're more in love. You're more communicative. You'll talk about everything, but she doesn't know you're not attracted to her.

• 43:08Speaker 04

  Well, she does now. She just found out a couple of days ago.

• 43:12Dr. John Delony?

  How'd she find out? Were you like, were you posting online? How'd she find out?

• 43:18Speaker 04

  I broke down and confessed to her. I told her, look, I have a hard time performing for you, and I have to fantasize in order to do it.

• 43:27Dr. John Delony?

  Why do you consider sex a performance?

• 43:32Speaker 04

  So that's what she asked.

• 43:35Speaker 04

  I don't know. I feel like I have to, I have to be the one that initiates. I have to be the one that pulls the whole thing off, or else it's just not going to happen.

• 43:47Dr. John Delony?

  And that leads me to this sense of, bro, like, I don't know what kind of, like, and I'm, I would hug you if you were sitting here, okay? So I want you to hear me say that.

• 43:57Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 43:58Dr. John Delony?

  You are facing a challenge that bajillions of people, men and women, face in their relationships. But often, it's men. And it has little to nothing to do with sexual attraction. It has to do with feeling alive in your own home. And you don't. And so, everything has to be a theater performance. And it has to, I've got to get my heart rate racing again. And I have to concoct this adventure.

• 44:28Dr. John Delony?

  And right now, I'm trusting you that it's staying in your head, but it will be out of your head shortly. You'll be in somebody else's bed.

• 44:37Dr. John Delony?

  Because it's that quiet life of desperation. And so as good as you think things are, man, I feel like you're almost having to tell yourself that because you're drowning. You're not even drowning, you're just suffocating in your own home. Is that fair? Am I, am I crazy?

• 44:58Speaker 04

  Uh, you might have a point in some regards. I've, I've been working on a lot of that stuff about, you know, bringing my heart back to life and finding out what it is that makes me feel alive.

• 45:10Dr. John Delony?

  What makes you, what is it? What is it?

• 45:14Speaker 04

  Um, honestly, I'm not really sure. I like, um, just hanging out around my friends. I like, um, going on small adventures, but you know, I'm not super extroverted either. So a lot of the stuff that people want to do just kind of intimidates me, I guess.

• 45:30Dr. John Delony?

  That's where, that's where, that's where it is. That's where the adventure is. So you've, you've created this story where I'm kind of introverted. So that's off the table. I'm kind of this, so that's off the table. And yet your body is starving for it. Like forget, forget your friends for a second. You and your wife, like, what does play look like? What does eros and desire look like? How does she seduce you?

• 45:59Speaker 04

  She doesn't.

• 46:01Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. That's the issue to be addressed.

• 46:07Speaker 04

  How can I address that?

• 46:10Dr. John Delony?

  Openly and directly and with compassion. Because if, if, if this whole thing is one sided, then the whole thing is an event. And she is just merely a, an actor on a stage. She's not with you. And you just write the script and hand it to her. In fact, you don't even hand her the script anymore. She just stays, she's just there.

• 46:34Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 46:36Dr. John Delony?

  She's not participating in this thing.

• 46:42Speaker 04

  Well, we have talked about some of that where I've told her, you know, I want, I wish she could engage more and initiate more and participate more. And she doesn't really know what to say or know what to do. And I've tried to direct her and then she, um, like she'll say, okay, but then she doesn't do anything.

• 46:59Dr. John Delony?

  And that's, that has to be addressed.

• 47:04Dr. John Delony?

  Because in many ways, you've said, I don't, I, I need this from you. I need to feel loved. And right now in this season, here's what feeling loved looks like.

• 47:17Dr. John Delony?

  And she nods at you and then goes, I don't really care about that.

• 47:23Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 47:24Dr. John Delony?

  And often, there's another side to that. Has she told you, here's what makes me feel loved and alive?

• 47:34Speaker 04

  Yes, she has.

• 47:35Dr. John Delony?

  And what does she say?

• 47:39Speaker 04

  Um, she just wants to know that, you know, that I'm thinking about her all day. Like when I'm at work, she likes having text messages, um, from me just telling her that I love her. Um, she likes it when I do, um, kind, gentlemanly things for her, like hold the door open for her and cook for her and things like that. And I do that stuff, but it's just, it's not-

• 48:00Dr. John Delony?

  That's all performative.

• 48:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 48:02Dr. John Delony?

  What's beneath that?

• 48:04Speaker 04

  She wants to feel special. She wants to feel like she is my one and only.

• 48:09Dr. John Delony?

  But she's not.

• 48:13Dr. John Delony?

  Cause you have a whole cadre of actors that you rely on to fulfill these stories every night, or two or three times a week.

• 48:24Dr. John Delony?

  And you see how it just turns into this weird figure eight. It's this infinity loop that nobody can catch the other person. It's a strange dance.

• 48:33Dr. John Delony?

  Where you are literally suffocating in your own home and the way you get little gulps of oxygen is to create fantasies and stories so that you can get this physical release. And she is not a participant, she's just being used for that release and she can feel it in her nervous system. And so then she begs for, "Will you tell me that I'm the only one, that I'm special?" And you outsource that to text messages and to doing the dishes and opening the door and putting your hand on the small of her back, all those are important things, but both of y'all are just trying to breathe through a straw.

• 49:13Dr. John Delony?

  And unless you both sit down and say, "All right." How long have y'all been married?

• 49:19Speaker 04

  Almost 15 years.

• 49:20Dr. John Delony?

  15 years. Here's the top 10 fantasies of mine. You ready? Right? We're gonna go down a rabbit hole. And y'all both agreeing, curiosity, not judgment. All right, tell me about that one. Why is that exciting?

• 49:42Dr. John Delony?

  And being able to sit in that tension, in that space, and I know people are listening to this right now, being like, "I could never tell the person I'm married to that I had this thought one time of..." And I would tell you, that's the problem. Because I know secrets kill relationships and people can feel when they're not connected. And the problem with a lack of connection with two married people who are sleeping together is, it accentuates how far apart you are, even though you're in the middle of one of the most intimate physical acts possible, because you both know you're not there.

• 50:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:23Dr. John Delony?

  Does that make sense?

• 50:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, it does.

• 50:27Dr. John Delony?

  Have you, um, I've joked about this before and ended up not being a joke. Like it ended up with a life of its own and it ended up being hilarious. Um, have you tried the John Deloney erotic envelope system? Have you heard me talk about that?

• 50:42Speaker 04

  Uh, I've, yes, actually my wife and I just did that, uh, a few months ago.

• 50:46Dr. John Delony?

  How was it?

• 50:47Speaker 04

  I don't remember if it was the exact same thing, but it was very similar. It was where we put, um,

• 50:52Dr. John Delony?

  Ten things.

• 50:53Speaker 04

  We wanted to try.

• 50:54Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 50:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, like it was five things per person, I think. Um, and we put on each on a different piece of paper and into a jar and we pulled one out each night and talked about it.

• 51:02Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 51:03Speaker 04

  And that was good, um, but she wrote down nothing having to do with sex whatsoever. And mine were like three out of five were sex related.

• 51:12Dr. John Delony?

  But that's super instructive.

• 51:16Dr. John Delony?

  What were her things?

• 51:19Speaker 04

  Um, like she wanted to study language together and, and let's like do a hobby together and, um, I don't remember what else, but we, we have them written down upstairs.

• 51:31Dr. John Delony?

  And were you curious about those?

• 51:35Speaker 04

  Um, yeah, I feel like we could have had more conversation about the items that we pulled out. But, um, I want to pick them back up. I certainly want to review them with her.

• 51:46Dr. John Delony?

  Because that, that's going to tell her, or that's, that's, that's, that's her clumsy way of telling you what she's missing.

• 51:56Dr. John Delony?

  And your, your three or four or five or six or 10 fantasies or sex acts, the things you want to participate, y'all want to do together. That sense of aliveness and adventure and desire and thinking about it all day. And her being a full participant, not for you, but with you.

• 52:21Dr. John Delony?

  That's what you're missing.

• 52:25Dr. John Delony?

  And it feels like there's not a bridge to get there. So you go through the motions, you do the acts, but you're in your head somewhere far away with with different people.

• 52:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:36Dr. John Delony?

  And learning a language is a way, it's a, it's a, I'm trying to say it in a not cheesy way, it's a, it's a, it's a knowing.

• 52:50Dr. John Delony?

  Right, it's a coming together.

• 52:53Dr. John Delony?

  In a deeply intimate way, we have done a thing, we've been through a hard thing, and now we have a way of communicating that no other people in our life do.

• 53:02Dr. John Delony?

  Like, the depth of intimacy in there, and that request is so deep.

• 53:08Dr. John Delony?

  But since it doesn't involve, like, I don't know, a new outfit and some weird music and some, like, like whatever, like, whatever you got in your head, it, it's easy to bypass the sensuality to it.

• 53:24Dr. John Delony?

  And so here's what curiosity looks like, I'll just walk you through it. So, I want to learn a language with you. That's when you pull out of the envelope and you're kind of bummed out, because you were hoping it would be like some wild, like, alright, here's what we're gonna do.

• 53:38Dr. John Delony?

  And you, she pulls out one, and it's some weird, like, exotic sex act you've, you've conjured up, or you saw in some movie back when you were 19 years old, whatever. And here we are.

• 53:54Dr. John Delony?

  And so immediately, there's a little bit of disappointment from both of you. All he wants is my body, I'm not even a participant, all she wants is to just not be erotic and not whatever.

• 54:05Dr. John Delony?

  Think about the tension building and the play building and the arrows that would be in your home if you both, and I'm making something up here, you both learned Spanish, and then you went on a date in Spanish, and you both were people, like, you were both from Spain, and you went to some, you see what I'm saying, like, this thing could end in this wild romantic night.

• 54:31Dr. John Delony?

  But it's about getting the layer beneath the layer beneath the layer. You know what I'm saying here, or is it like, am I sounding like a lunatic?

• 54:38Speaker 04

  No, I get you, I totally understand, it makes sense, yeah.

• 54:45Dr. John Delony?

  I also know that this can be incredibly terrifying and very lonely. And I hate that for you.

• 54:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, some of the, some of the things that you mentioned are great. And I have talked about some of this stuff with her. And it seems like, I mean, again, like the stuff I bring up, she's not interested in it. And the stuff that she brings up, I try, but then again, it just feels like it goes nowhere.

• 55:08Dr. John Delony?

  Is the interest in, I'm not interested in being a member, I don't want, I don't want to be a cast member in that particular movie? Or is it, I don't want to have that adventure with you?

• 55:24Speaker 04

  It's, um.

• 55:25Dr. John Delony?

  I'm not interested in sharing, I'm not interested in like, that particular roller coaster.

• 55:36Speaker 04

  I'm honestly not sure.

• 55:37Dr. John Delony?

  I think that's the question. Because my guess is, um, there are some things that people say, "Dad, I'm just not comfortable with that," or "That hurts," or "I don't feel good," like that, that's part of it. And that's just about open dialogue and, and, and talking back and forth. But often, if there is a pattern of performance, a pattern of, "I am, I'm just doing this for you, but I am not a, I'm not doing this with you," then just another layer, another outfit, another whatever, another fantasy to layer on top of that, um, I'm not really interested

• 56:21Dr. John Delony?

  in that. But I don't, I don't want to be an actor in your movie. But if I, but if you'll let me co-write a script with you, I'll be in for that.

• 56:34Speaker 04

  Uh. That's good, okay.

• 56:38Dr. John Delony?

  And so, the layer beneath it is, I feel loved when you've been thinking about me all day. And I feel loved when I know that you can't keep your hands off me. And so, what world would we have to create where that was possible?

• 57:06Dr. John Delony?

  And her saying, and you saying with her, this sounds like one of the most valuable things she values with you is your time.

• 57:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 57:14Dr. John Delony?

  And so what does that look like?

• 57:20Dr. John Delony?

  But I feel like there's a lot of whack-a-mole intimacy up on top of the surface here, and there's just lower layers. What's your chief, what's your chief fear in this marriage?

• 57:31Speaker 04

  Um, now, I guess it would be that, um, she just wouldn't want to, uh, she would, she would show no interest in getting to know me, or not care about wanting to enter my world, or know what's really going on in my mind, or...

• 57:51Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, have you said those things?

• 57:54Speaker 04

  Have I said those things to her?

• 57:55Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 57:57Speaker 04

  Yes, I have.

• 57:58Dr. John Delony?

  And she just said, "You're right, I don't want to know you?"

• 58:02Speaker 04

  Um, she admitted to having those feelings in the past, in the early years of her marriage.

• 58:08Dr. John Delony?

  What's that?

• 58:09Speaker 04

  Um, sorry?

• 58:12Dr. John Delony?

  What feelings? "I don't even want to know him?"

• 58:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, feelings like she just is married to me because I'm the breadwinner, and she doesn't really want to get to know me on a deeper level. And that's the way we've got through our first seven or eight years of marriage. Um, and, you know, I almost left the family, I almost got a divorce back then, but things are different now. We've worked through a lot of our issues, and it's a lot better now than it was 10 years ago, 15 years ago. Um, but I'm just afraid that that's going to come back.

• 58:45Dr. John Delony?

  Is there, is that possible?

• 58:49Speaker 04

  I don't know.

• 58:52Dr. John Delony?

  Is it probable?

• 58:57Speaker 04

  Um, I don't know.

• 59:02Speaker 04

  I can see, I can see how it could be, how it could happen, yes.

• 59:06Dr. John Delony?

  But do you also see how you're creating a self-fulfilling prophecy?

• 59:13Speaker 04

  Not exactly.

• 59:16Dr. John Delony?

  Things were bad seven or eight years ago, no question. Me have a woman telling you like, "I really didn't care about you. You're a safe bet."

• 59:26Dr. John Delony?

  And I needed a warm bed to sleep in. And so, I was willing to high-five you a couple of times a week. I didn't really care about you. And you felt that every second of your life, seven or eight years ago. And did you, did you have somebody on deck during that time? Did you have a coworker that made you laugh, or somebody that you texted back and forth with, that you thought, "Man, this would be my off-ramp?"

• 59:53Speaker 04

  Hmm, not really, no.

• 59:56Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So you just were all alone in your misery?

• 1:00:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, I was pretty lonely.

• 1:00:01Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Um...

• 1:00:06Dr. John Delony?

  So your body put a GPS pin in that.

• 1:00:12Dr. John Delony?

  And now you hedge.

• 1:00:15Dr. John Delony?

  You don't tell the full truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

• 1:00:20Dr. John Delony?

  Because that would've gotten you burned, seven or eight years ago.

• 1:00:26Dr. John Delony?

  And what's hard to realize is, the house is on fire right now.

• 1:00:35Dr. John Delony?

  And so, you're not gonna tell her everything. She's just gonna continue to, you're gonna live in your head, and you're gonna act it out in real life, and she's just gonna put up with it. And you're gonna find yourself back in that same pattern of, she will participate a couple of days a week because it keeps you happy, and it keeps the money depositing in the direct deposit.

• 1:00:57Dr. John Delony?

  And as much as you're in your head during those times, she's for sure in her head, thinking about other things.

• 1:01:05Dr. John Delony?

  Right? Like bills, or laundry, or whatever else. But not what you wish she was thinking about. And it just creates what y'all have already had. And that's different than sitting down and saying, "I want us to build something together."

• 1:01:21Dr. John Delony?

  And giving her the opportunity to say, "I'm not doing that." Because you gotta deal with that issue.

• 1:01:31Dr. John Delony?

  Does that make sense?

• 1:01:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, it does.

• 1:01:35Dr. John Delony?

  And I know it's terrifying. Do you think she's gonna like be out? Or that she's gonna force you to say, "Okay, then I don't wanna be a part of this?"

• 1:01:43Speaker 04

  No, divorce is not on the table. There's no chance of us separating.

• 1:01:47Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, here's what's beautiful about what you just said.

• 1:01:52Dr. John Delony?

  There's no chance this ends. Zero. And so now, all you have to choose is one or the other. Do we want a home of arrows and desire and playfulness and fun and connection? Or do we want a house of loneliness and performance and a descending misery? Because we're not gonna leave.

• 1:02:21Dr. John Delony?

  And one of those seems infinitely more fun than the other. And one of those are both, I mean, the playful, fun... Life's pretty hard. Let's just have as much fun as we can in this deal. Means we're not gonna have sex all the time.

• 1:02:36Dr. John Delony?

  And it means not every night of sex is gonna be the Super Bowl. There is just gonna be boring married sex sometimes, and that's great. It's awesome. And there's gonna be, what one woman told me, "It feels like a warm hug." It's just connective. It's not adventurous. It's not, "Ah!" It's not that.

• 1:02:53Dr. John Delony?

  It's just gentle.

• 1:02:56Dr. John Delony?

  Connection.

• 1:02:58Dr. John Delony?

  Good time. And then there's adventure nights, and there's fun times. And there's also, "Hey, what does intimacy look like outside of the bedroom?" "Let's sign up for a dance class together." "Let's do, oh, you wanna do things with me? I'm gonna make you a priority in my life." "We're gonna co-create. We're gonna co-write this script." "You're not just gonna be an actor three nights a week."

• 1:03:21Dr. John Delony?

  In my head. And that's just a totally different life. And, and, bro, just so you know, you're not, you're not alone, man. This is the state of modern marriage. Two people expecting the other person to fulfill them, instead of sitting down and saying, dude, let's make something amazing together. And it's not going to be amazing all the time. But let's build towards something awesome, where we laugh a lot and play a lot. And I'm going to concede here, and I'm going to compromise here. And I don't even know why you're kind of into this, because it's kind of weird, but I'm going to play along as long as I feel comfortable and I feel safe. And that's too weird, or that's super painful, or I, I'm can't. All

• 1:04:05Dr. John Delony?

  right, let's have that conversation. Let's just have it. And sometimes the eros is in the conversation. Tell me more about that. What is it exciting about that? Where did that even pop into your head? Right? That can become some of the most intimate conversations and learning. And you learn about your fears, learn about what you're into, learn about what scares you, learns about what like really makes your hearts start beating. Man, what feels a little deviant, all those things. Man, you get to share that with somebody, especially anchored in, we're never leaving each other, ever. Gosh, that sounds amazing.

• 1:04:45Dr. John Delony?

  But you both got to be willing to go for it. Go all in.

• 1:04:52Dr. John Delony?

  I'm grateful for you, brother. Thanks for being open and for giving me a buzz. I think the conversation that I would start with if I was in your situation would be to take my wife out and say, hey, I realized over the last four or five years, our marriage has gotten good. It's gotten real good. But I've made you an actor in my world, in my movie. I want to write something with you. Let's do this together. Let's go build something amazing. And in so doing, I want you to tell me beneath, let's do a class together beneath, I want you to wear a nurse's outfit together, whatever the thing is. Beneath all that, like, what kind of world do we want to create? What does that look like? Thank you so much for the call, my brother. I'm grateful for you.

• 1:05:38Dr. John Delony?

  All right, you know this, I'm a founding member of the Anti-Internet Club. I think I'm the only member, but listen, I'm all over the internet these days. You are too, and as a society, we're creating more and more online accounts all the time. We're signing up for promos, giving away our email addresses, we're buying everything with our phones. I get hundreds of emails to my personal account trying to sell me stuff, all kinds of stuff, and I hate it. And I also know it's not going away anytime soon, which is why I'm happy to use and recommend Delete Me. With all of our online activity, do we really know where our data is and who has it? Chances are high that data broker websites have your information,

• 1:06:22Dr. John Delony?

  and they're selling it to scammers, spammers, and other shady people. But when you use Delete Me, they find and remove your data from hundreds of sites, and they send reports throughout the year to show you exactly what they've removed and from where. And right now, I'm getting way fewer of those spammy texts and phone calls, which allows me to let my guard down just a little bit and feel some peace. This holiday season, share the peace by giving a Delete Me subscription to someone you love. Individual Delete Me plans start as low as nine bucks a month. Go to joindelete.me.com/deloney today for 20% off.

• 1:07:02Dr. John Delony?

  That's join, J-O-I-N, joindelete.me.com/deloney. All right, if you're still with us on New Year's Day, there's three highlights from this past year, the shows that performed pretty well on the internets. Kelly, what's one of your, one of your goals? What's one of your goals for 2025?

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  Um, so I'm, I've kind of, the past last half of 2024 really started taking a, a hold of my health. So, you know, early in 2024, I started working out and consistently five to six days a week, every morning, 5:00 AM, working out. And then I've started making some other changes, and I'm down about 10 pounds.

• 1:07:41Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, yeah!

• 1:07:42Speaker 01

  So, um, my goal is to be, to continue on that, to lose a little bit more, just to feel better about myself. So that's probably my biggest goal is, um... You know, when you have a special needs child and all the, you focus on everybody else, but to kind of focus on getting myself at a better place.

• 1:07:59Dr. John Delony?

  That's pretty awesome. Congratulations.

• 1:08:01Speaker 01

  There's some specifics, but that's the gist. What about you?

• 1:08:03Dr. John Delony?

  Let's go into the deep specifics.

• 1:08:04Speaker 01

  No, let's not. What about you?

• 1:08:11Speaker 01

  I'm sure it's to talk nicer to me and to be nicer.

• 1:08:14Dr. John Delony?

  We can just agree to disagree on that one.

• 1:08:16Speaker 01

  All right.

• 1:08:16Dr. John Delony?

  I think you've pretty much won the lottery on this one.

• 1:08:24Dr. John Delony?

  I've got several. I'm trying to think in what order I want to talk to them about. I guess, I guess the big one is, um, yeah, kind of like you mentioned, the last two or three years has really been, um, kind of a circle in the airport on, in airplane on. I try things out a lot and I do a lot of 30 day challenges and equals one experiments and I try this gadget and this program or whatever. Um, and I think 2025 for me is a season of flipping a switch, which is making some peace with some things, um, to really put into practice some of the things my buddy, Lane Norton says and Sal says about, like, and Jordan says, like, am I going to hate myself anymore? I'm just, I'm just done with that season of my life. The first half, right? I'm just kind of done of not liking Deloney.

• 1:09:09Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm going to make some peace with some things and really settle into, no, this is just how we do life. We move and we treat each other right and we take care of things and we don't buy stupid stuff and we don't man line red number 30 and blue number 40 or whatever those things are.

• 1:09:24Speaker 01

  In the form of some sort of gummy something?

• 1:09:26Dr. John Delony?

  Some sort.

• 1:09:27Speaker 01

  I will tell you, the flipping the switch and changing my mindset on the, I deserve this time, um, this 5 a.m. super early in the morning, this is about me because I deserve it. It took a few months at the beginning of the year of just me like, I hate everything about this, but now it is such a joy.

• 1:09:45Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:45Speaker 01

  To take that time because I do deserve it.

• 1:09:47Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:48Speaker 01

  And that mindset and I'll, that's Sal 100% right there. Um, that has been such a game changer for me and I really advise everyone try that.

• 1:09:56Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. And, and the idea even this morning, today's a packed, packed, packed day. Um, and I won't get done working. I won't walk off stage. I've got an event tonight. I won't walk off stage till late tonight. The thought of... What can I do right now to feel awesome today? Not a thing I have to do, but what's a thing that I can do to feel awesome today? And that's just such a shift, right? Like, I just want to feel great, and so I'm gonna lift, and I'm gonna eat something healthy, and I'm gonna go outside. Like, just some little things like that, that, again, it's just flipping a switch. I think Sal's the one who says, "The man who loves a journey will always walk further than the man who's got a fixed destination." And I love that idea, right? So, that's it for me.

• 1:10:40Dr. John Delony?

  I'm just, I'm done, uh, I'm done just hating on Deloney. So, I'm kind of finished with that. And so, now it's time to-

• 1:10:48Speaker 01

  I'll get there eventually.

• 1:10:49Dr. John Delony?

  It's a long, a slow down, that's the 20, we got 2026-

• 1:10:53Speaker 01

  It's the journey, the journey.

• 1:10:55Dr. John Delony?

  It's the journey. Hey, love you guys. Oh, seriously, write down, write it down, who you want to be this year. And then, keep listening to our show, keep passing the show around, hit the subscribe button. Thank you for being with us and making 2024 a wild, memorable year, and just hang on to your hats, because 2025 is about to set off. Love you guys, bye.

• 1:11:19Dr. John Delony?

  Hey, what's up, folks? Big news, The Dr. John Deloney Show is now available a full week early in the Ramsey Network app. That's right, you can catch all the real talk of mental health, relationships, emotional health, before anyone else. And the best part? It's completely free! Just click the link in the show notes to download the Ramsey Network app and start watching early today.