Can I Be Married and Still Have Friends?

🇺🇸 Watch United States of Anxiety Exclusively on the Free Ramsey Network App! On today’s episode, we hear about: · A wife struggling to balance her marriage and friendships · A man unsure if he should stop smoking weed for his wife · A woman wondering how to best support her friend who recently had a baby Next Steps: 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. 🌿 Get up to 40% off at Cozy Earth with code DELONY. 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. 😇 Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial. 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 💪 Get 25% off your order at Thorne. 🥤 Get 20% off at Organifi with code DELONY. 🏔️ Head to Poncho Outdoors to check out all their styles! Listen to More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel[MS1] 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy https://www.ramseysolutions.com/company/policies/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  Okay, if I go really hard in my career in one season, then I look up and I haven't talked to my friends in months, or I feel pretty disconnected in my marriage, and then if I switch gears to really focusing on my marriage, then it feels like my ability to be as proactive and creative in my work life or my friendships, that sense of suffering.

• 0:20Dr. John Delony?

  My friend, how long have you been performing?

• 0:29Dr. John Delony?

  What up? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show.

• 0:36Dr. John Delony?

  Man, I'm so glad that you are with us, talking about your emotional and mental health, your relationships. Just, there's hurting people going through a lot right now, and this show is dedicated to you guys, sitting down with hurting people, trying to figure out what's the next right move. Not even hurting people, confused people, stuck people, frustrated people, whatever you got going on in your life, that's my promise, I'll sit with you and we will figure out what's the next right move. You want to be on this show? Give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291, or go to johndeloney.com/ask. And before you just keep hitting the little 15 second skip, skip, skip, listen, please, please, please subscribe on the YouTube channel, we're so close to crossing that million mark. Hit the subscribe button, it'll take you like two seconds, and it really helps us out in a number of ways.

• 1:21Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's roll out to Atlanta, to the ATL, and talk to Elizabeth. What's up, Elizabeth?

• 1:27Speaker 00

  Um, so here's what I'm trying to figure out. I'm trying to figure out how to balance building a good marriage while also building meaningful friendships and relationships outside of my marriage. I really struggle to strike a balance, if that's even possible, and so I'm wondering if we can dig into that.

• 1:46Dr. John Delony?

  Well, balance is insane, so trying to achieve that is like a myth. It's like trying to catch a dragon. It's like, not real, but...

• 1:57Dr. John Delony?

  I don't see these two things that you laid out as opposites. I see them as recursive. They work together. So tell me what you're struggling with on either side of the equation.

• 2:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think where I what I'm struggling with is I feel like I can I'm always feeling guilty, like whichever direction I go. So it's and if I throw work in there too, it's really like trying to sort out, okay, if I go really hard in my career in one season, then I look up and I haven't talked to my friends in months, or I feel pretty disconnected in my marriage. And then if I switch gears to really focusing on my marriage, then it feels like my ability to be as proactive and creative in my work life or my friendships, that tends to suffer. And so it just, I feel like I'm always spinning, trying to, I don't know, organize my calendar and my weeks in such a way that everything is getting the right amount of time. It doesn't even include time for like me and

• 2:48Speaker 00

  myself. And I think what I tend to bump into is feeling like I'm not showing up to anything as much as I should be because my energy is split. Or if I'm really focused on something, I tend to feel a lot of guilt or sadness or like I'm failing and giving attention to the other things that also matter. And so I don't know if that's adding any clarity to it, but that's those are some of the feelings that come up as I'm trying to hold all these different parts of my life.

• 3:17Dr. John Delony?

  Dude, my friend, how long have you been performing?

• 3:24Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 3:28Dr. John Delony?

  You are living everyone else's life across multiple fronts. I don't even know what it would be like for you to actually access what you really want. I think that might be a scary proposition for you.

• 3:48Dr. John Delony?

  What do you think?

• 3:49Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:50Dr. John Delony?

  How long have you been singing and dancing for people to say that you're okay?

• 3:54Speaker 00

  Uh, a long time, probably. I mean, at least since I was a girl, so a long time, yeah.

• 4:00Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about it.

• 4:03Speaker 00

  Um, yeah, I guess I grew up in a home that felt pretty chaotic, a lot of love and a lot of chaos. Um, and I think, I, I think being excellent and doing well at things is kind of how I stood out and carved out a place for myself. Um, not only in my family, but also in school. It was like if I, I distinctly remember being younger and experiencing some bullying and thinking, well, I'll show you, like, I'll be the best and then I won't, it won't matter, you know, that you're making fun of me about this or whatever. So, um, I'd say it's been, it's been a part of my life for a while.

• 4:42Dr. John Delony?

  That's so freaking exhausting.

• 4:45Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:48Dr. John Delony?

  Because you just end up playing relational whack-a-mole and nobody ever turns and asks you how you're doing, or what do you actually need, or, or more importantly, what do you want?

• 5:00Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 5:01Dr. John Delony?

  Like, so I guess what I tell you is, is having great friendships aids and supports and makes, tills the soil for an incredible marriage.

• 5:13Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 5:14Dr. John Delony?

  And being anchored in with good friends and having a rock-solid marriage anchors you in to allow you to go swan dive into your work.

• 5:22Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 5:23Dr. John Delony?

  And being excellent at your work allows you to come home and celebrate and grieve when you don't do well and celebrate when you do well, and it provides the foundation for you to build a house on with food, right, and, and, and capital, like, support. So all these things work together. They don't work to, they, they work together if you are actively creating the life that you and your husband want to live.

• 5:48Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 5:49Dr. John Delony?

  They are at war with each other. If you're trying to make your friends happy, you're trying to make your boss happy, and you're trying to make some idealized version of your dad, by the way, he's never gonna call you.

• 6:00Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 6:01Dr. John Delony?

  That call, that finally he's, that call will never come, because it hasn't already.

• 6:09Dr. John Delony?

  And you're trying to like, keep your husband happy. Right? And you're, you're, you're not burning the candle at both ends. You just set yourself on fire and covered yourself in wax. You are the candle.

• 6:21Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 6:23Dr. John Delony?

  What, what, what precipitated this call?

• 6:27Speaker 00

  Um, I came off of, uh, pretty much many, many months of traveling a lot for work and had, uh, I think it was an anxiety attack coming off of all of that. And kind of looked up and realized like, oh, I'm pretty isolated and disconnected. Um, not as much from my husband because I see him every day. Um, but also still from him.

• 6:55Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, sister, I've been, I have been dreadfully lonely sharing a bed with a woman that I know loves me.

• 7:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:02Dr. John Delony?

  Dreadfully lonely.

• 7:04Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. And so it's like, I woke up, I was like, oh, I feel really disconnected. So that was around the time when I called. Um, and since I, I did call, like, I've been trying to be more intentional. Like, okay, let me actually go see my friends and tell them that I'm not okay. Cause I haven't even opened up that part of my life for them. Cause I had just been like, coming home, going to the airport, coming home, going to the airport. Um, and so that I was holding all of that. And that's why I called.

• 7:29Dr. John Delony?

  How old are you?

• 7:31Speaker 00

  I'm thirty four.

• 7:32Dr. John Delony?

  You have little ones?

• 7:34Speaker 00

  No.

• 7:34Dr. John Delony?

  Do you want kids or no?

• 7:36Speaker 00

  Uh, yes.

• 7:37Dr. John Delony?

  Yes? Tell me about that journey.

• 7:40Speaker 00

  Um, oh gosh, that's a great question. Um, my husband and I had, haven't been on the same page about it for a few years. I think we're getting to be on the same page about it.

• 7:52Dr. John Delony?

  What does that mean? You're wearing him down?

• 7:54Speaker 00

  Oh, no, no, thankfully. I tried that and that was not successful. So no, it's been a lot of addressing like the root issues in our relationship that created that disconnect in general. So it's been, we've been working on that really hard and I do feel much better.

• 8:08Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 8:08Speaker 00

  Um, but that's where we're at in that journey.

• 8:11Dr. John Delony?

  What's the plan?

• 8:13Speaker 00

  Um, uh, what's the plan? Oh, that's really specific. I

• 8:19Speaker 00

  We don't have a specific plan in place.

• 8:21Dr. John Delony?

  You've got to get one, and here's why. You're drowning in a sea of ambiguity. You always have been.

• 8:28Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me if I'm wrong here. My guess is, you're a good kid. And your house was chaotic. And this will probably ring true to you in some shape, form, or fashion. I don't know about the word trauma, because it's kind of over dramatic. But I remember one of my professors told me that straight A's can be a trauma response to. That just because a kid is getting straight A's doesn't mean everything's going great. Sometimes it is their way that they keep their head above water so that some adult somewhere will see them and say, "Good job."

• 9:02Dr. John Delony?

  Or, at worst, won't hit them, right? Or will ignore them and keep them a little bit safer. But like you mentioned, grades are a way for a kid without humongous muscles to bully other kids. "I'll show you that I'm better than you."

• 9:18Dr. John Delony?

  But all of that is a kid that's untethered, meaning doesn't know where the next secure attachment, the next secure sense of "I'm loved, and I have value, and I have worth" is coming from.

• 9:31Dr. John Delony?

  And those folks grow up to be adults.

• 9:35Dr. John Delony?

  And they start trying to clamor and get it everywhere. "Do I get a certificate at work?" And that feeling lasts as long as the certificate ceremony, or the mass email that goes out to everybody, or the raise. In fact, the raise doesn't even matter. It's the conversation on your annual review with your boss that says, "Hey, I'm giving you a 4.2% raise," when the average was 3. "And I see the work that you're doing. You did a good job." Or, "Your bonus is a little bit high." Right? The feeling is gone before the deposit even hits your checking account. And then your husband, you want to make him happy, but also there's this frustration in your friends. "Y'all want to go do things, but I'm tired." But it's this, "I don't know how to win in this environment relationally, because I'm

• 10:18Dr. John Delony?

  trying to solve this internal gaping hole externally." And there's no specifics, and you're going to wake up and be 39 years old, and you will realize, "I've lived somebody else's life." And that's when people wake up and burn everything to the ground. Meaning, and that's when they respond to the texts from that really attractive, hilarious coworker for the first time. That's when they just snap at their spouse who's just puttin' along. Or your sister or one of your girlfriends has a third kid and you just snap.

• 10:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:51Dr. John Delony?

  Because you wake up and you're living somebody else's freaking life.

• 10:55Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:56Dr. John Delony?

  And you're trying to manage everybody else instead of just asking yourself, "What do I want? And what must be true?"

• 11:02Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 11:03Dr. John Delony?

  Does any of this ring a bell?

• 11:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, it all rings a bell.

• 11:06Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 11:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:09Dr. John Delony?

  So I guess what I would tell you is like, you build a meaningful marriage, to me of all the things that you mentioned, that's the most important thing.

• 11:20Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 11:20Dr. John Delony?

  And I know it's kind of countercultural, but you both looked at each other and said, "I do." And if you have, if the pillars that that relationship is built on, if those are crumbling, or if they've been removed, or they were never there, or you think they're stronger, or whatever, that has to be addressed before any of the other stuff. Because you can make a million bucks and if your marriage isn't good, the research tells me your life will suck.

• 11:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:46Dr. John Delony?

  And you can have the greatest friends in the world, but if you go home and you're not safe when you sleep in your own bed, your body will never let you sleep.

• 11:53Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 11:55Dr. John Delony?

  Does that make sense?

• 11:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, it does.

• 11:57Dr. John Delony?

  So how's your marriage for real?

• 12:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:00Dr. John Delony?

  I know that's not why you called. How is it?

• 12:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, um, it's been really hard.

• 12:05Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about it.

• 12:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, we, oh, golly, it's like, where to start? It can be like a saga, but I'd say, we've been married eight years. Um, the probably, first one was a lot of fun, probably two through, it'll be eight years in April, I should say. Um, I would say, year two through, maybe a year ago, things were really, really tough, just lots of, um, really bad communication, poor conflict resolution, really, at least like for myself, like had a really hard time.

• 12:38Speaker 00

  Asking for what I needed and asking for what he needed. So it's just, sometimes you look at each other and we're like, oh, if we'd had the skills we have now, six years ago, we'd probably have a different relationship.

• 12:49Dr. John Delony?

  Oh dude, I think that every three years. Every three years, I'm like, oh my gosh, if I hadn't done this, right? So, yeah, you're not crazy. Yeah, you're not crazy.

• 12:56Speaker 00

  Okay. Yeah. So I mean, it's like, it hasn't been like one thing. It's been like a lot of things and core tools to navigate all of those things. And so, um, earlier this year, we had like a test separation of sorts. And then we came back together without a real plan. Then we're like, oh, we need a plan. And so we've been building an actual plan. I've learned a lot from you. And, um, he and I have watched my videos together and things. And, um, I don't feel like we're, things feel so much better than they used to that I, I can't in good faith say like, oh, things are still really bad because they're not like, I feel like we've talked about everything. We have our weekly marriage meetings, like we are doing things we know we're supposed to do to like get on the same page. And based on those

• 13:39Speaker 00

  meetings, we are both feeling more connected and being more intentional. So things seem to me to be on a healing trajectory.

• 13:44Dr. John Delony?

  Very cool.

• 13:45Speaker 00

  But there's still pain, of course, when I look back on, um, a lot of the disconnection we've experienced.

• 13:52Dr. John Delony?

  Are there still secrets?

• 13:55Speaker 00

  Um, not on my side. I don't think he has any, but I would, he'd have to answer that.

• 13:59Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 14:02Dr. John Delony?

  You don't think so, or you don't, you, you know so?

• 14:06Speaker 00

  Um, I want to say like 90% I know so.

• 14:10Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. I would start there.

• 14:13Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 14:14Dr. John Delony?

  Cause I want you to be able to jump up and down on the stability of this marriage.

• 14:22Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 14:23Dr. John Delony?

  Because now y'all have, i- i- if there's no other secrets, there's nothing else out there for you to find. And it's weird if you've let stuff slide for seven years, or if you've kind of been looked the other way for seven years, or it's been fine for eight years, like whatever. But that's the stuff that emerges in year seven to 10 of a marriage that becomes these deal breakers.

• 14:45Dr. John Delony?

  And the work y'all have done the last year, I am high fiving you sister, that is so rad that y'all have done that. And now I think you've like, you've patched the holes in the boat so it's not sinking anymore.

• 14:57Speaker 00

  Right.

• 14:58Dr. John Delony?

  And now you'll have to decide if y'all are gonna build a new boat. Cause this one's not gonna take you that much further. We all build a new boat together. And that just starts with, no secrets, lay it all out. Here's all of me, do you still love me? Does that make sense?

• 15:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, it does. Yeah, it does.

• 15:15Dr. John Delony?

  So, when it comes to balance, balance is a myth. But deep enriching relationships enrich every part of your life.

• 15:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:25Dr. John Delony?

  But it comes with you believing I'm not on a stage for everybody. Me and my husband have decided we're gonna co-create a world together. Our friends will be a part of that. Some of them won't make that cut, some of them will. Our jobs will interweave through that, but we're gonna create this world together.

• 15:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:43Dr. John Delony?

  And then the pressure of having to balance everything, you just get off the little Amazon, you know that little half ball thing? The little balance stand that you, people at stand-up desks do at work when they're listening to their Enya and their essential oils or whatever they're doing. You know what I'm talking about? Those little balance ball things? Yeah, you just get off that and you stand on the ground.

• 16:06Dr. John Delony?

  Does that make sense?

• 16:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, it does.

• 16:08Dr. John Delony?

  From this point forward, whenever you feel like you're trying to balance something, just con, just close your eyes and consciously step off that little balance-y thing. I'm not doing that. I'm not balancing. What's the next right move for me and my husband and for me and my family?

• 16:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:22Dr. John Delony?

  And that almost always, except in moments of safety, begins with truth. I'm gonna tell you the truth.

• 16:31Dr. John Delony?

  So gosh, I'm trying to think of where to, hang on the line here, I'm gonna send you a copy of Building a Non-Anxious Life and I want you and your husband to use that as a roadmap for what comes next. And the first step there of building a non-anxious life, the first, you know, the first... The first step in the path is choosing reality. And there's a series of questions in the back of that first chapter that are like, alright, here we are, what's true? And use that as truth. And I'm gonna send you a copy of Questions for Humans: Intimacy Deck and Questions for Humans: Couples. And I want y'all just to begin learning and, this is gonna sound crazy, enjoying each other again, becoming friends again. Y'all are doing the meetings, y'all are fixing stuff.

• 17:13Dr. John Delony?

  I want y'all to remember being friends together. And then talk about, hey, I wanna go hang out with my friends. Good, thank God, I wanna watch this stupid show. Hey, I don't like going to comedy clubs with you, I'd rather go to a jazz club. Can you go with your friends? Yes, okay, awesome. And we'll begin to build that life. I don't like traveling so much, maybe we're gonna look for a new job. Or, I wanna have a baby right now. And our conversations, and I'm not ready, I'm done with that conversation. I'm ready for this now. And we can start seeing what we want, put that on the table. Alright, let's roll out to Manitoba, Canada, and talk to Big D. What's up, David?

• 17:51Speaker 02

  Um, so, can you use some background? I met my wife in June of 21, got married in January 2023, so we're almost at her two-year anniversary. Um, and before I met my wife, I was a pretty rabid alcoholic slash gambling addict. And I was clean for about two years prior to meeting her. Um, so when I met her, you know, she would drink, I would use cannabis, no issue. Uh, but I started telling her more about, you know, like recovery, watching Intervention and stuff like that, I like shows like that. She was like, oh wow, like, you know, you shouldn't be using anything. And I'm sitting there thinking, okay, well, when I went to rehab back in 2018, I meet a lot of people that say, I don't know what your thoughts are, but basically, you're an addict, you shouldn't be doing anything at all, you should be totally sober.

• 18:32Speaker 02

  And I would say 9% of people I've met, or healthcare professionals, agree with that. I'm almost six years sober from those two issues in February. And now my wife saw my case quite a bit, um, you know, she just thinks I shouldn't be anything, it's like taking a big risk. And it's starting to annoy me and cause a little bit of issues. So I was kinda curious to get your, your feedback on that. Everything else is great, it's just this one little issue that it's kind of causing bigger issues.

• 18:59Dr. John Delony?

  How much of her, to use your words, being on your case, is about weed? And how much of it is she loses her husband? Or her husband checks out?

• 19:17Speaker 02

  Well, and I guess that's fair. She says like a not present, I guess would be something she had.

• 19:21Dr. John Delony?

  Those are her words, right.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  Which is fair. Um, and I guess here in Canada, like we do have it legalized. That's something I used, to be honest with you, a crush when I quit drinking back, uh, in 2019. They just legalized it.

• 19:33Dr. John Delony?

  Well, so.

• 19:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's fair. That's a fair point for sure.

• 19:36Dr. John Delony?

  Two, two things are important about, the reason most people say, if you're gonna be sober, you gotta be sober from everything.

• 19:46Dr. John Delony?

  One reason is, um, I've got a couple of friends, if they have one beer, they will be disappear on a three day coke bender. Because it just hits a domino that they, it just one beer turns into six beers, turns into who's got cocaine, turns into where's so and so. Right? So that's one, that, that all these things are dominoes. So I gotta stop everything. I can't drink a glass of wine. I'm not gonna touch champagne. I can't go into that world, period. The other reason most people will say you have to abstain, you have to live a life that is sober is, otherwise you just trade one addiction for another, for another, for another.

• 20:29Dr. John Delony?

  And so my question to you, just like as a buddy, just as a guy sitting across the table having nachos is like,

• 20:36Dr. John Delony?

  all right, gambling helps you feel alive in your own skin.

• 20:42Dr. John Delony?

  Alcohol helps you not feel pain in your own skin.

• 20:47Dr. John Delony?

  What is weed giving you? If your wife uses the words not present, checks out, then there's something about you being in your own skin that you don't like. What is that?

• 20:58Speaker 02

  I don't know, to be honest with you, like I've been in the military here in Canada and, you know, it's the only thing I can really do. You know, maybe if I wasn't, I know to be honest with you, like I'm just saying like, I feel like that's something that I could get my hands on. That's not me getting in trouble with work, so I do it. But also too, like, it's probably a bad answer, but you know, my wife's having a few drinks, you know, on a Friday night, and I wanna, you know, smoke up a bit. I really don't see the issue there, cause I don't mind that she drinks. That's not a factor at all. Like, well, I'm sober. But at that point, I really. I guess during the path of time that I kind of feel she's partaking and I should be able to as well, I guess would be how I would feel about that.

• 21:33Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I guess, I guess the scorekeeping is gonna be a relational, some relational baggage, man, it's just gonna be hard to overcome. Um, I should be able to, I get to, man, if you, if you struggle with alcohol, man, you just don't get to anymore. My understanding, which is limited, um, to what some of you guys in the Canadian military experiencing is very, very challenging. Is that fair?

• 21:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's fair, that's fair.

• 21:59Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 22:02Dr. John Delony?

  A, just from a personal standpoint, I'd love to see you get to the root of that.

• 22:08Dr. John Delony?

  Or to come up with some strategy, and if it ends up just being that, then it just ends up being that, right? Um, I'm not in your shoes and I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna throw grenades at you.

• 22:19Dr. John Delony?

  But there's something that's underlying that. The bigger thing is, is it sounds to me, without talking to your wife, that in her, she's able to point at the weed, she's able to point at legal cannabis, but it sounds like what she's telling you is, "I miss you and you go away."

• 22:41Dr. John Delony?

  My wife tells me the same thing, 'cause I'm a workaholic.

• 22:46Dr. John Delony?

  And she'll use the same words your wife does, which is, "You're not present. You're sitting at our kitchen table and your head's a thousand miles away from here."

• 22:54Dr. John Delony?

  And I have to

• 22:54Speaker 02

  No, I'm gonna say that for sure, yeah.

• 22:56Dr. John Delony?

  I have to consciously, like, have a ritual to leave work, at work. I have to say no to money. I have to say no to projects, because my wife is saying, "I miss you. You're not here. The kids miss you. Your family, your, the life, your life is missing you." And so if I have a job that I have to do, and I have to medicate my regular life outside of my work, um, so that I can get through it, man, I really would love to get to the bottom of that.

• 23:28Speaker 02

  Um, that's a really good point. And the funny thing is, we're both actually retiring in a couple of months.

• 23:33Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 23:33Speaker 02

  Uh, kind of forced out on medical. So we're gonna have like, work won't be a thing there anymore. We're gonna kind of have the ability to travel and do whatever we want. And maybe this might just be the, you know, the attic in me talking, but I feel like as soon as I have that, you know, kind of out of a

• 23:46Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 23:46Speaker 02

  work situation, I'm not really crazy about. I know I say that, but I'm saying like, right now, that's how it feels to me.

• 23:51Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 23:52Speaker 02

  When I have that ability, I'm not really gonna have that need anymore. So I kinda, that's kind of the way I'm looking at it. I got a couple more months, but then it's still obviously causing a bit of tension.

• 23:59Dr. John Delony?

  Did you not drink before you got in the military?

• 24:03Speaker 02

  No, no, I drank, uh, I joined at seventeen, so it's kind of hard to, to tell you, you know. So I've been doing the military for eighteen years now. That's all I've done.

• 24:09Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, it's all you know.

• 24:10Speaker 02

  Well, there you really get to, to build, build, build, you know, and you can be alcoholic in military, no problem, you know. Um, the gambling thing kind of cycled with me from, uh, when taking my first step within a year, I was in rehab. Like, that hit me like, like a truck. Um, so yeah, and the funny thing is, without ever developing the gambling addiction, I would still be drinking today. But I don't know, I never felt like I had a problem with alcohol, which is strange to say, but looking back, I'm like, holy

• 24:33Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 24:34Speaker 02

  Well, gambling, you know, you win or lose a hundred thousand dollars a day. You realize you have a problem pretty quick.

• 24:39Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, absolutely. Well, and so

• 24:43Dr. John Delony?

  I don't want to over generalize here, but the people I've spent time with, who are both veterans, and the people who I've spent time in the recovery community, which is a bunch on both sides of those, and you happen to fit in both of those camps.

• 24:58Dr. John Delony?

  If I was to distill down one central challenge they both have, that is the ability to believe that somebody else would love them just for them, not for what utility they provide.

• 25:14Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm wondering if your wife is looking at the man that she loves, and she said, I ride or die till the end of time. I will be by your side. After six years, I'm, A, I'm, I miss you, and B, I'm losing you.

• 25:33Speaker 02

  No, no, that's, there's probably something else I should mention. It's gonna make me sound like not a great dude, but when she brings this up to me, I kinda just default and say, well, you know what? You can just leave. Like, you're so not, I know it's wrong. I know it's, especially if my wife who tells me she feels abandonment issues in the past and her childhood, and I know that's like the worst thing I can say, but I'm like, just like kinda what you're saying, if you're not gonna take me for me, then, what do you, uh, which I know is a horrible thing to say, like, I'm not gonna-

• 25:57Dr. John Delony?

  No, no, no, she is, she's trying to take you for you, and you keep, you keep trying to talk to her through a gr- a green haze.

• 26:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, no, that's true.

• 26:07Dr. John Delony?

  She's trying to come get you. That weed is not you. That weed is you protecting yourself. And you lashing out at that woman is not, that's, that's you trying to protect yourself.

• 26:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, and I'm just, uh, and it's funny, cause you can come up with anything to rationalize it, and be like, well, at least you didn't know me when I used to drink, or at least when I-

• 26:26Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, you know, but you know that as well as I do, that's stupid, you know that, yeah.

• 26:30Speaker 02

  Oh, no, no, no, that's true. Um, no, I do.

• 26:34Dr. John Delony?

  Here's, if you, if you, if you were my buddy here in town, you know what I'd tell you to do? Use the last six months in the armed forces to have, to do recovery on their dime, and just try. And you'll probably find yourself-

• 26:49Speaker 02

  What do you mean, like going back to, uh, like a facility, do you mean, or do you mean just like in terms of resources?

• 26:54Dr. John Delony?

  Well, I don't know what resources they have. Um, I don't know, I don't know resources in Canadian military, but if they've got meetings, if they got places where you can go, here's what I'd love you to try. I would love you to try to get sober, stone sober, with the resources and the structure that the military's gonna provide you. Cause you're telling yourself a story that's not true, which is, once you are free from this structure, that then things will, you're, you're gonna unspool rapidly.

• 27:21Dr. John Delony?

  And so, unless you have a very systematic transition plan that very few veterans have.

• 27:30Dr. John Delony?

  If you're just waiting for they to get done, so you can ride your motorcycle free and go, ah, I can do whatever I want, I can wear whatever I want, and grow my hair however I want.

• 27:38Speaker 02

  I do feel that way, yes.

• 27:39Dr. John Delony?

  It's gonna be a rude awakening. You got 20 years of somebody telling you when to jump and how high. And it, freedom is amazing, and it's unsettling for your nervous system. And dude, you, you think that's when you're gonna come off, bro?

• 27:57Dr. John Delony?

  I would love to see you try to get sober with structure right now. And if it is painful and you find yourself lashing out and you find yourself angry and you can't sleep, that is the alarm bells that you need to run towards, not away from.

• 28:14Speaker 02

  Okay, no, that's a good point. I always do feel the need, I need to be doing something, which I know is, you know, it's addiction coming in a different form, but no, no, that's, that's good advice. I do have some time left before I'll be, you know, out and be able to not have those resources. No, that's, pretty clear cut advice. I don't think there's too much I agree there.

• 28:33Dr. John Delony?

  Well, I mean, I, the single greatest, uh, what do you call it? Rationalizers I know in the planet are my, my closest loved ones, my friends that are in the recovery community. They can get me believing that the sky is red. Like, like, they are so good at just twisting reality in a way. I'm like, I think, I think you're right. It looks blue to me, but I'm pretty sure it's red. Like, they're just the best rationalizers on the planet. And so,

• 29:02Speaker 02

  Oh, that's fair.

• 29:03Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, just speaking as, as black and white as I can, dude. And by the way, you're gonna do what you're gonna do. I can't, I'm not gonna be there with you. You can do what you wanna do. Um, I would just ask three things. Number one, never, never, never, never threaten your wife with separation. It's cold, it's cruel, man. Don't do that. Be, be, be a better man than that.

• 29:27Dr. John Delony?

  The second thing is, um, is be, be intentional about what y'all are going to build together. Something that not, you are not gonna run from the military. You're gonna build something that you're gonna go towards. What is it? A small business? Traveling, a new adventure, we're gonna have kids finally, like what, I don't know what the thing is, but go towards it. And the third thing is, while you still have an alarm clock on you that you gotta wake up for,

• 29:55Dr. John Delony?

  man, I would love to see you get stone sober for six months and really deal with the demons. Cause

• 30:03Dr. John Delony?

  going from gambling hundreds of thousands of dollars to alcohol since you're 17, to daily weed, like, man,

• 30:12Dr. John Delony?

  it just tells me your body is wrestling with some kind of demon. And the weed keeps it quiet, the weed works, the gambling works for a minute till it burns your house down. Alcohol works, man.

• 30:23Dr. John Delony?

  I'd love to see you live a life where you're just free. You drink coffee in the morning because you want to. You just fall asleep at night because you're tired. You and your wife just have wild, passionate lovemaking and adventures and dinners and meals because y'all like each other. Not because you're living a life that you have to be half asleep.

• 30:46Dr. John Delony?

  All right, we are back. Hey, listen, I'm excited to share that episodes of the Dr. John Deloney Show are now available a week early. For all those listening, there's like seven of you who are like, "I've gotta listen early." It's now available a week early in the Ramsey Network app. You can also watch full video episodes of the show and so much more. You can, golly dude, you can go through, there's just so much cool stuff. Go to the, download the Ramsey Network app. You can, you can search, you can dig into stuff, and you can check it out early and for free. Ramsey Network app, and you can check the show notes for the link to the app. All right, let's go out to Richmond, Virginia and talk to Ann. What's up, Ann?

• 31:29Speaker 03

  Um, so I'm actually calling about a friend of mine.

• 31:32Dr. John Delony?

  Sure, sure, Ann. Calls for a friend, huh?

• 31:37Speaker 03

  For real. Um, so I, I had my daughter about five months ago, and it was cool because I had a kid with about four of my other friends. Something was in the water, I don't know. But anyway.

• 31:53Dr. John Delony?

  Awesome, okay.

• 31:54Speaker 03

  So we've been, we've been on this journey together, first children, and all of us had different birth experiences, different support systems, but one of our friends in particular is having a really rough time.

• 32:06Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about it.

• 32:06Speaker 03

  And, yeah, um, so she and I probably both had like the more traumatic birth experiences, but unfortunately, her child was in the NICU for an extended period of time. Um, I don't know what that's like, but I can only imagine how challenging that was. And since having the kid, what we, and I say we, it's my, my very close friend and I have, are friends with her and have kind of been noticing this, but- We think she's really struggling with postpartum depression or even rage. And that's manifesting in messages to us in the middle of the night on Instagram that are just like,

• 32:46Speaker 03

  I hate my wife, or when her baby's crying in a group setting saying, nobody cares to her baby, just saying, hey, nobody cares, baby, or even referring to her baby as it. And I know, like, I know my friend's heart, and I know that this is probably chemical, this is probably beyond her, but I'm worried about her. And I've talked to her when I can, but it's also a very sensitive subject. I mean, I went, I went through my own challenges and I know how difficult it can be to really like see the forest for the trees when you're coming out of this incredibly inten- intense life change that was traumatic.

• 33:30Speaker 03

  Um, but yeah, I'm, I'm really concerned about her. And I think what I'm really calling is to understand when she says these things in a group setting or even one-on-one, I've been at a loss for words, um, of how to respond in a way that is honest, but supportive and, but doesn't make it okay necessarily. I hope that makes sense.

• 33:56Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, totally. Um, I, I, I think.

• 34:02Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, man. Um, I guess I'll just say this as direct as I can. Yes, there's some sensitivity, some major sensitivity. You know, I am literally only sitting here before you because I had a couple of my closest friends in the world wade through insane amounts of sewage to get to me when I was hurting.

• 34:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 34:30Dr. John Delony?

  And so.

• 34:33Dr. John Delony?

  Intervention is too dramatic of a word and that show has kind of made it sensational. But having, having coffee at your house one morning and inviting everybody over just to check in and go around the room.

• 34:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:48Dr. John Delony?

  And say, just want to check on everybody. I've had some good days and some bad days. We're just gonna start going around seeing how everybody's doing. How are you doing?

• 34:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, I've made a point of doing that and I-

• 34:58Dr. John Delony?

  With her by herself or with a group?

• 35:00Speaker 03

  Both, both actually.

• 35:02Dr. John Delony?

  So, in, in a group, okay, tell me about that.

• 35:06Speaker 03

  Well, there's been a few times and to be fair or clear, I guess I'm probably the one she's closest to in the group because we both had emergency C-sections and she called me the day it happened and so I feel a sort, sort of responsibility of kind of stepping up and, and being that person for her. And so there have been, I, I almost like make it a calendar note in my phone to call her or text her like every other day and set something up, whether it's a walk with this me or friends in a group. And we had a group come over probably two weeks ago and that was when she kind of expressed that she was having like, almost like hallucinations at night.

• 35:50Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 35:51Speaker 03

  When she was taking care of the kid and, um, that's when I got really scared and I actually reached out to her husband and called him and said, hey, I'm really concerned. What can I do? Um, and also I just want you to know that I'm here for you. Um-

• 36:06Dr. John Delony?

  What did he say?

• 36:08Speaker 03

  He, I think, he kind of had a sigh of relief of like, oh, you see what I'm seeing and like-

• 36:12Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, okay.

• 36:13Speaker 03

  This isn't, this isn't just a battle that I have to fight, you know? Um, and I think she's aware of it, but it's also like, I kind of see, you know, I remember being in the fog of that. It was a different situation for me, but it, you need someone to throw you a rope. And so-

• 36:30Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 36:31Speaker 03

  I think the question I'm having is like, how do you throw a rope with sensitivity? But also like-

• 36:35Dr. John Delony?

  You don't.

• 36:36Speaker 03

  It's true, it, it's, wow.

• 36:37Dr. John Delony?

  You don't. Um, it, it, you're, you're past that.

• 36:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:43Dr. John Delony?

  Um, and you, you said something important earlier. You said, you can't see the forest from, for the trees. That's why we have friends.

• 36:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:54Dr. John Delony?

  Who will grab our wrist and walk us through the forest when we can't see the way out. And so, yeah, it's, what I'm telling you is, um, I've been in your situation. I've never, I've never been in, I've sat with postpartum friends very directly.

• 37:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:09Dr. John Delony?

  And said like, here's, here's the options before you. You go see a psychiatrist, ASAP, you're gonna see OB-GYN. And

• 37:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:20Dr. John Delony?

  Tell them exactly the thoughts you're having, because those thoughts are scary.

• 37:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:26Dr. John Delony?

  And you think

• 37:27Speaker 03

  And I know that she's only telling us.

• 37:28Dr. John Delony?

  That's right. You know why? Because you, you come to believe they're gonna take your baby away.

• 37:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:34Dr. John Delony?

  And your body also puts a bunch of GPS pins in that baby as it almost killed her, right?

• 37:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:41Dr. John Delony?

  And then she couldn't hug, I mean, oh, there's so much stuff going on there.

• 37:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:46Dr. John Delony?

  That terror demands a witness.

• 37:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:50Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And so, you sit down with your friend and you say, hey, here's the deal. I'm gonna love you the best I can, and I'm willing to, whatever. Um, willing for you to be mad at me, whatever, but you need to go see your doctor and I'm gonna go with you.

• 38:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's the step I just haven't taken. Like, I've had the conversations of, how are you doing? Are you, you know, are you still having the hallucinations? But I haven't taken the, are you going to see your doctor?

• 38:16Dr. John Delony?

  No, it's not even that. It's not, I don't, I don't ask or. When I get to the point where you need to be right now, I don't ask like, hey, are you gonna, I don't ask that question. I say, you're going to. I'll go with you, or I will stand here in your front yard when they come get you.

• 38:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:32Dr. John Delony?

  But I'm worried about you. Now, there's a little bit of bravado there. Most people aren't gonna come and get you, right?

• 38:39Speaker 03

  I'm the soft one in the front group. I can't.

• 38:41Dr. John Delony?

  I know, I know. And that's why I say like, sometimes with the group. But I think it's letting her know, not asking. I see that you're not okay. I know for a fact you're only telling us a part of it because you have to, and I so love you and respect you for that.

• 38:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:58Dr. John Delony?

  We're going to see your doctor and I'm gonna go with you. Um, but you gotta make an appointment today, like, right now. Oh, I will. No, no, no, I'm not gonna leave. I'm not leaving here until you make an appointment. I'm gonna go with you.

• 39:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:11Dr. John Delony?

  And I know this is scary. Can I hold your hand?

• 39:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:17Dr. John Delony?

  You hear what I'm saying?

• 39:19Speaker 03

  I do hear what you're saying.

• 39:20Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, there's not a gentle way to throw a rope to somebody who's drowning.

• 39:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:25Dr. John Delony?

  You throw the rope as hard as you can. And if it hits him in the head and they have to get stitches, so be it. At least they're on the boat to get stitches.

• 39:34Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, it was scary calling her husband because I was like, I'm risking the friendship right now doing this. But at the end of the day, it was the right thing.

• 39:41Dr. John Delony?

  All day long. I'll risk my friendships all day long if people are still alive.

• 39:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:47Dr. John Delony?

  You know what I mean? And by the way, my wife reached out to one of my friends one time and he came. To this day, he still never told me that she called him. She told me, but he hasn't. He honored her trust in that way because he loves me and he obviously loves my wife too. He's a close friend. But he came down to tell me to go see somebody.

• 40:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:09Dr. John Delony?

  And he drove three hours to come see me. And I thought he was just bringing his son by to play with my son. But he listened to my whole spiel when I wasn't well. And he's like, you're gonna go see somebody. You're not all right.

• 40:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:20Dr. John Delony?

  And it, my wife couldn't get through to me. My colleagues couldn't get through to me. He did. He did.

• 40:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:30Dr. John Delony?

  He did. And by the way, when he left, I was pissed. I was mad. Like, who do you think you are? Like, you don't know? You don't understand? I did.

• 40:43Speaker 03

  All right.

• 40:43Dr. John Delony?

  There's not an easy path through. And listen, if you want, if you talk to her and you all want to call in, call in.

• 40:50Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 40:50Dr. John Delony?

  I'll put you all, I'll put you both right back through.

• 40:54Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 40:54Dr. John Delony?

  And if you don't want to go alone, get another friend. But if you think she trusts you dearly and she would listen to you, then, then have that conversation and do it in person.

• 41:05Speaker 03

  I'm probably the one. It's just, I never want to overstep or hurt someone by doing it. But at the same time, I think it's the right thing. So.

• 41:16Dr. John Delony?

  How do you feel like it's an overstep?

• 41:20Speaker 03

  Well, I don't know. I mean, I think when I was going through this stuff, there's, there's a lot you can assume on the outside

• 41:29Speaker 03

  about what someone is trying to do and their desires, working through something. And I just, I never want to assume. I don't know. I.

• 41:45Speaker 03

  I just don't want to assume something that's not there or just offend her. But I guess risking offending someone is probably the right thing to do if it would help her through this.

• 41:57Dr. John Delony?

  So. Yeah, screw offending. I would, I would completely reframe that and saying, what, like, I am her friend for this moment.

• 42:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:10Dr. John Delony?

  Nobody in the world can speak to her like I can. From an emergency C-section, from the terror, from the, we had a plan that we all talked through to how pissed off we are to our other friends, even though we love them because they got to do it like we drew it up, all of it.

• 42:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:25Dr. John Delony?

  And then being able to say, I don't know what it's like not to be able to hold my baby.

• 42:30Dr. John Delony?

  For one week, two weeks, three weeks, a month. I don't know what that's like.

• 42:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:35Dr. John Delony?

  I don't know, every, and you know this, every husband's different. I don't know what it's like. You don't know what it's like getting in that house with the doors closed.

• 42:42Speaker 03

  Right.

• 42:44Dr. John Delony?

  And so who knows what hell she's going through, but the scariest thing is she's probably going through it by herself.

• 42:50Speaker 03

  I think it's that I just don't want her to think that I'm saying she's doing a bad job because that's not what I'm saying at all. You know, I want her to know that I think she's doing an awesome job and has been handed a really hand.

• 43:04Dr. John Delony?

  That's right.

• 43:05Speaker 03

  But she needs help.

• 43:06Dr. John Delony?

  That's right. There you go. And so I,

• 43:11Dr. John Delony?

  this might sound cheesy, but I think the greatest gift you could give her is to write her a letter and read it to her and say, I wrote this because I wasn't able to get it out.

• 43:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:23Dr. John Delony?

  And if it started with, you're the most amazing mom out of all of us.

• 43:28Dr. John Delony?

  And I see you drowning.

• 43:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:33Dr. John Delony?

  And by the way, you can't control how she chooses to hear it, or maybe not even chooses in this moment, in this, in this fog, she's hurting a lot. She's struggling. Um, how she, her body hears it, you can't control that. What you can do is do the best job you can to be compassionate and let her know, because we love you, we're stepping in at this point. You gotta go see somebody.

• 43:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:55Dr. John Delony?

  You gotta go see somebody.

• 43:58Dr. John Delony?

  And we'll be here to help with childcare. We'll be here to help with whatever. But you gotta go see somebody and I'll go with you.

• 44:07Speaker 03

  Okay. I can do it. Yeah.

• 44:14Dr. John Delony?

  She's lucky to have a friend like you.

• 44:17Speaker 03

  Thanks.

• 44:19Dr. John Delony?

  And just because it's uncomfortable doesn't mean it's the wrong thing, okay?

• 44:22Speaker 03

  Yeah. Thanks, Dr. John. I appreciate it.

• 44:25Dr. John Delony?

  Last thing I'll tell you, if you get even the slightest sense that she's a danger to herself or to her baby, call 911 immediately. No questions asked, no... Could care less if you don't like me anymore. But if I get even the slightest sense that she's gonna do something irreversible, I'm making that call right away.

• 44:46Dr. John Delony?

  All right, we're back. All right, Kelly. This is a time when I...

• 44:54Dr. John Delony?

  I should've done this at the beginning of the show, but I'm gonna do it at the end of the show. When I don't know any public figure who has not found themselves having to admit something publicly. And I'm not who I said I was. And so that's me making this admission.

• 45:09Speaker 04

  I think I know where we're going. I'm so happy.

• 45:14Speaker 04

  I'm glad you didn't do it at the beginning of the show, because I wasn't here.

• 45:16Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 45:17Speaker 04

  So, this is as it should be.

• 45:20Dr. John Delony?

  Thursday night of last week, we're recording this on a Monday. Thursday night of last week, at the end of this big, long event with business leaders,

• 45:32Dr. John Delony?

  I joined a band onstage.

• 45:36Dr. John Delony?

  I played a Purple PRS.

• 45:40Speaker 04

  What did you play?

• 45:41Dr. John Delony?

  And I played a Nickelback song.

• 45:43Speaker 04

  Yes, you did! And I was there to witness it.

• 45:47Dr. John Delony?

  I played a Purple PRS, for God's sake. Will Rutter's Purple PRS. And I played Nickelback. And, and, it jammed.

• 45:57Speaker 04

  Yes, it did.

• 45:57Dr. John Delony?

  The whole thing jammed.

• 45:58Speaker 04

  And, there's also video evidence.

• 46:00Dr. John Delony?

  There is video evidence, and I'm not gonna lie. It's smoked.

• 46:04Speaker 04

  It was so much fun. Would you like to tell the people what I... So when I texted you, when I left, and I told you that this would come back to haunt you at some point in time, what did you tell me?

• 46:16Dr. John Delony?

  I said, "I'm already on my way to a church. I have to ask God for forgiveness." And you said, "God will forgive. Kelly doesn't forget."

• 46:26Dr. John Delony?

  I played Nickelback live in front of other people.

• 46:29Speaker 04

  And it was great.

• 46:30Dr. John Delony?

  Oh my gosh.

• 46:31Speaker 04

  You did a fantastic job on it.

• 46:33Dr. John Delony?

  Well, I appreciate that.

• 46:34Speaker 04

  You did a great job. The whole, the whole thing was great.

• 46:36Dr. John Delony?

  For anyone knows music, um, playing a Nickelback song is, it's the same skills you learn when they teach you ta ta ti ti ta in elementary school with a xylophone.

• 46:45Speaker 04

  Like, what, hot cross buns on the recorder?

• 46:47Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, it's hot cross buns. There's, there's four whole chords, four whole chords.

• 46:51Speaker 04

  But prior to that, before that, you played a Motley Crue song.

• 46:54Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, we played Motley Crue.

• 46:54Speaker 04

  You did Kick Start My Heart.

• 46:55Dr. John Delony?

  Which is, it's, it's not complex, but it's complex and there's a lot of moving around. Not even one eighth of the jamming in the audience. But man, you play some Nickelback and dude, there were shirts unbuttoning themselves. It was a whole thing. It was a whole thing. I don't, I don't understand. I don't understand, but the, the Nickelback effect is real and I just need everyone listening to this to know.

• 47:21Dr. John Delony?

  I did pick up a guitar that wasn't a Gibson or a Jackson. I did, and I played it and it was purple. And it was Nickelback and I rode home in silence.

• 47:29Speaker 04

  There was a point whenever, of course, I like, there was a big group of us, uh, team members here that were just having a great time.

• 47:35Dr. John Delony?

  You know every Nickelback word, by the way.

• 47:37Speaker 04

  I did, of course I did. I freely admit it. And.

• 47:40Dr. John Delony?

  I thought that tattoo across the top of your chest was like a, like, I don't know. You're just trying to like, put out the vibe. I didn't realize you loved them like that.

• 47:46Speaker 04

  And then I look up and John catches my eye and like the shame that was in your eye was fantastic.

• 47:51Dr. John Delony?

  What was the song?

• 47:52Speaker 04

  Uh, you did, um, did you, how, uh, How You Remind Me?

• 48:03Dr. John Delony?

  I've been wrong. That it?

• 48:04Speaker 04

  Yes, that's the one.

• 48:07Speaker 04

  But it was great. You did a fantastic job on it. And I will say, cause we had a ton of business leaders here, nobody else in the audience, besides the very few of us that knew, would have known you, you did it well. You hit it well.

• 48:20Dr. John Delony?

  Well, listen.

• 48:21Speaker 04

  You stuffed down those feelings and played on.

• 48:23Dr. John Delony?

  I took my pride and my feelings and I hid them for the sake of a good rock show. And then I just wallowed in shame all night. About 3 a.m. My wife rolled over and said, what have you done? Are you okay? And I was like, I can't talk about it yet. I think she thought I was having an affair and I was like, no, worse, much worse. I played Nickelback in public and she was like, no, you promised. And she went running out of the bedroom. None of that happened, but. Alright, America, it will never happen again. It actually might, because I'm not gonna lie, it felt kinda good. Nickelback's on to something. 400 million albums later, however many they've sold, they're on to something. But I just can't buy a PRS, not yet, not yet, America. Love you guys, bye.