Terry Fox: Greatest Canadian Hero

It is to the great nation of Canada’s lasting credit that it has prized Terry Fox as one of the most beloved and admired citizens for nearly 50 years now. It’s difficult to get across how much he means to Canada. Lucky for us, his story speaks for itself. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Josh Clark?

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• 1:38Speaker 00

  Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio.

• 1:48Josh Clark?

  Hey, and welcome to the podcast. This is Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too. And we are gonna go back to Canada because we had such a nice time there in June and July that, um, yeah, we're gonna do an all Canadian episode.

• 2:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's right. We did, uh, six shows across Canada. It was our pleasure to be there as their guests.

• 2:11Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 2:12Speaker 02

  And, uh, all across Canada, I feel like during Q and A, people would ask us, uh, why we haven't, or would we, and maybe why we haven't. That's like the rudest a Canadian could ever get. It's like, uh, very sheepishly to say, why haven't you guys covered Terry Fox yet?

• 2:28Josh Clark?

  Yes. And specifically, there are two people worth calling out. The first is William the First. He was the birthday boy at our Montreal show.

• 2:37Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 2:37Josh Clark?

  We called him William the First because there were a few other Williams who asked questions after him.

• 2:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:42Josh Clark?

  But I saw he and his mom, he asked us to do Terry Fox. And then the next day I ran into him and his mom at the train station.

• 2:48Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:49Josh Clark?

  And they elaborated further on how great Terry Fox would be for a, um, an idea for an episode. And then the other guy, Chris, who met us at the airport in Winnipeg.

• 2:59Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:59Josh Clark?

  He also suggested it too. So, you, Canada, you can thank William the First and Chris.

• 3:05Speaker 02

  That's right. Uh, before we get started, we do want to mention though, uh, that we are going on a cruise, a stuff, a stuff cruise, right?

• 3:15Josh Clark?

  Yes, stuff at sea. Uh, and Chuck, it's not even a cruise, buddy. It's so highfalutin, it's a voyage.

• 3:22Speaker 02

  That's right. It is a voyage and we are departing, uh, from New York City, from Brooklyn, actually, on October 2nd, uh, sailing to Bermuda and then back to New York. Uh, we have since learned that our, um, live show will be on, uh, day two.

• 3:39Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 3:39Speaker 02

  Of the voyage at 4 P M. And, uh, we're still getting confirmation on exactly how you sign up for that specific thing, but, uh, just, you know, a lot of people have signed up. The boat is filling up. And if you want to come out and go on a sea voyage with us and, uh, and our other stuff colleagues, there's lots of fun, fun stuff planned. Stuff, stuff, stuff.

• 4:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah, we're just gonna be hanging out on the boat with everybody too. So it will be a good time. And that show, like you said, it's early in the afternoon. So our hope is that you can all be in bed by 6:30.

• 4:11Speaker 02

  That's right. We don't want to mess up anyone's, uh, dinner plans, you know?

• 4:14Josh Clark?

  Yep. So, uh, yeah, you just search stuff at sea on Virgin Voyages and, uh, you will find everything you need. And, uh, yeah, so we'll see you guys in October. Coming up, Chuck, that's like a month or so.

• 4:27Speaker 02

  I know. It's really snuck up on me.

• 4:29Josh Clark?

  Same here. It pouts too.

• 4:31Speaker 02

  That's right. Uh, and now back to Terry Fox.

• 4:35Josh Clark?

  Yeah, so, um, I think a lot of, I should say, a lot of the world can be forgiven for not having heard of Terry Fox. I actually feel kind of like a schmo for having never, ever heard of him or what he did.

• 4:48Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 4:48Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Had you when we were touring Canada?

• 4:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. And you know, I, uh, not because I'm just, you know, um, some savant that knew about all of Canadian history as a child.

• 5:00Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 5:00Speaker 02

  But I was a youngster who had HBO and I watched the Terry Fox movie, uh, the 1983 movie with Robert Duvall, like more than three or four times.

• 5:12Josh Clark?

  Robert Duvall seems old to play Terry Fox.

• 5:15Speaker 02

  Right? He didn't play Terry Fox. Uh, but yeah, I saw that, I saw that movie, you know, it was on HBO and I saw every HBO movie at least three or four times when I was that age.

• 5:26Josh Clark?

  Mm hmm.

• 5:26Speaker 02

  So I, that's how I know about the Terry Fox story. It was from that film.

• 5:30Josh Clark?

  Okay. Yeah. And that was definitely like when he was part of like the immediate zeitgeist. Like he was world famous. And what, what stands out to me too, is he was world famous for what he did over the course of about a year. Like he became like a public figure and then basically what he did to put himself on the map as a public figure and do this amazing thing, which I'm just teasing here. I'm not even going to say what he did yet. Um, it was basically over the course of a year, Chuck.

• 6:03Speaker 02

  That's right. Uh, maybe we should say what he did.

• 6:06Josh Clark?

  I agree.

• 6:06Speaker 02

  Okay. Uh, Terry Fox was a, a very brave, um, inspiring person. Um, like, like you said, not only in Canada, but throughout the world because he had cancer. He lost a leg, uh, to cancer and planned the, uh, Marathon of Hope where he was to run clear across Canada with a prosthetic leg. And that's probably all we should reveal for now.

• 6:30Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Yeah. Let's, let's go back to the beginning. We're gonna go back to Winnipeg where we were, that was our last show in Canada. That was great. Uh, and on July 28th, 1958, if you had gone to one of the fine hospitals in Winnipeg and asked around, you might've found Raleigh and Betty Fox were having a baby named Terry. Terry, um, I think he was Terrence Stanley Fox is what he was born. And, uh, very quickly Terry said, this is, it's way too cold in Winnipeg. Let's move out to the Pacific coast where it's mild. And Betty and Raleigh said, let's do that. So the family of six went out to, um, uh, I guess a suburb of, uh, Vancouver, Port Coquitlam.

• 7:14Speaker 02

  Did you, are you sure it wasn't a home birth, by the way?

• 7:17Josh Clark?

  My goodness, that didn't even occur to me. I mean, that would make it way harder to find Betty and Raleigh if you had to go house to house.

• 7:24Speaker 02

  I could just see that being like the first correction. It's like, guys, they weren't in a hospital.

• 7:28Josh Clark?

  Absolutely. No, like basically if I have any chance of getting it wrong, I'm going to get it wrong.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  Uh, so when Terry was a kid, he was really into sports, uh, and really was his entire life, but he wasn't, you know, he wasn't blessed with the, the, um, like the size of an athlete. He wasn't a natural athlete. Um, but he was very determined, as we'll see, even as a kid. So, you know, there are plenty of stories from his childhood where, you know, he, he would go out for baseball practice like an hour early, uh, waiting at the corner for his ride.

• 8:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 8:00Speaker 02

  Or when he took up basketball, you know, he was not a big guy. He was, he was one of the shortest and smallest kids in his class, uh, in the eighth grade. So he would show up early for practice. He would be the last one to leave practice. And as the story goes, on the, uh, eighth grade team, he played one minute of actual basketball on the court, uh, like during the season. And by 10th grade, he was the starting guard. And by 12th grade, uh, his senior year, he was voted co-athlete of the year at his high school, uh, with his best friend, Doug Allward.

• 8:32Josh Clark?

  Isn't that cool?

• 8:33Speaker 02

  That's amazing.

• 8:34Josh Clark?

  I mean, so that's just one of numerous stories about how cool this kid was and how hard he tried at everything. And not just basketball. He also played soccer. He played rugby. He ran cross country and he got into cross country when his basketball coach, when he was playing very little at the time and still trying to, to practice and get good. His basketball coach was like, maybe give up basketball and go take up cross country. And so Terry was like, I'll just do both.

• 9:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. And he said, does that mean I run across Canada? And they said, no, that's just what you call the sport when you're running through the woods and not on a track.

• 9:11Josh Clark?

  And he goes, yeah. Across Canada.

• 9:14Speaker 02

  Exactly. It hatched an idea. Uh, after high school, uh, in his athletic career there, he went to Simon Fraser University. He played on the JV basketball team in college.

• 9:24Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 9:25Speaker 02

  Uh, and had a, was in a car wreck that fall. Didn't get like super hurt. He was a little banged up, but his, he started getting some knee pain and for about six months or so, he just kind of chalked that up to fall out from that car wreck.

• 9:40Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 9:40Speaker 02

  Uh, and then that next spring, he was like, I should probably go to a doctor. This is March of 77. And when he was at the doctor, he, you know, he heard those terrible words that you hear in an appointment like that, which is, hey, you have cancer.

• 9:57Josh Clark?

  Yeah, specifically an osteogenic sarcoma, which is bone cancer that starts in the knee. And, um, this was a time where cancer research and cancer, um, treatment was the best thing you could do for something like that was to amputate.

• 10:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:15Josh Clark?

  Uh, you have to get not just the tumor out, but all the cancer that's around it. And so they're like, we just need to take off. I think the six inches above his knee. And he was 18 at the time, an athletic kid. Like this is for most people, most 18 year old boys who are like into sports. This would just be life shattering and I'm sure it was, but he had an ability to kind of pick himself up and be like, okay, this is my new reality. Let's see how I can excel in this reality too.

• 10:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, uh, I even remember that. And I kind of scrubbed through some of the, the Robert Duvall movie. Uh, they handle all that in about 20 seconds in the film.

• 10:54Josh Clark?

  Really?

• 10:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, you know, it was an early eighties. Uh, I guess it was a TV movie, but I saw it on HBO. Maybe it was an HBO movie. I don't know.

• 11:03Josh Clark?

  Hey, I believe that you saw it on HBO. You've been so emphatic about it that even if it was a TV movie, even if the president of HBO at the time came to me and said, it wasn't on HBO. I wouldn't believe him.

• 11:16Speaker 02

  It had to be. Cause why else would I have seen it multiple times? Those TV movies just ran like a movie of the week and they were gone forever.

• 11:22Josh Clark?

  Do you remember the one, it was an after school special. It wasn't a TV movie of the week, but it featured Helen Hunt. And she smokes PCP and runs and jumps out of a second story window in her high school. Cause she's flipped out on PCP and it was Helen Hunt.

• 11:37Speaker 02

  That was on HBO.

• 11:41Speaker 02

  The home box office.

• 11:42Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 11:43Speaker 02

  Man, we should get them as a sponsor. What a plug.

• 11:46Josh Clark?

  Did you ever see, there's a video of the HBO, the original HBO, um, like I guess title card or whatever. Where like it zooms through the street, this neighborhood and all the lights are starting to come on. And then it gets to the mountains and it says HBO or whatever. That was an actual model. I saw people filming in it and going through with this camera. It was really amazing. There's a, like a short video of it.

• 12:12Speaker 02

  It's great.

• 12:14Speaker 02

  Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. Oh, man. If we're not getting HBO money by the end of this episode, I'm going to be really upset.

• 12:23Josh Clark?

  I also want to say to our new listeners who are Canadian and haven't listened to us before, but saw Terry Fox episode and started to listen. This is pretty much par for the course for every episode we've ever done. And we're coming up on 1800 of them.

• 12:37Speaker 02

  That's right. Uh, 1800 times that we've gotten sidetracked, probably times three.

• 12:42Josh Clark?

  At least.

• 12:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. All right. So back to Terry Fox. Uh, he has gotten this terrible diagnosis. He decides, you know, uh, despite his amputation, he's going to move forward as an athlete. Uh, he undergoes 16 months of chemo. And that same summer that he, like, right after he had this amputation, he goes out and is like, I'm going to, uh, join a wheelchair basketball team. And not only that, he joins the Vancouver cable cars in, uh, 1977 in a tournament and leads this team to back to back national tournaments in 78 and 79.

• 13:21Speaker 02

  Like right out of the gate, man, he's after it.

• 13:22Josh Clark?

  Right. So I mean, by that time he's what? 19, maybe 20 for the, for the second one. Have you ever seen a wheelchair basketball game?

• 13:32Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:32Josh Clark?

  They're amazing.

• 13:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:34Josh Clark?

  There was a team called the, I looked up the name because I couldn't remember, but it was the Toledo Silverstreets. And I'm not sure how my mom got into it, but we used to go to Silverstreets games like a lot. Yeah.

• 13:44Speaker 02

  Oh, that's cool.

• 13:44Josh Clark?

  Early eighties. It was very cool.

• 13:46Speaker 02

  I never saw one live. I bet that's a.

• 13:48Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah. You saw him on TV? Was this on HBO?

• 13:52Speaker 02

  Just stop.

• 13:55Speaker 02

  Shame on you. Uh, around this time, uh, he meets a young woman named Rika Noda, uh, and she became, uh, she became a very prominent figure in his life, obviously as his girlfriend. And someone who would, you know, would be by his side through this whole next chapter that we're about to talk about.

• 14:11Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And one other thing about him. So he, when he, um, took to his wheelchair for wheelchair basketball, he already had an artificial leg, a prosthetic. Um, but he would train in his wheelchair, going up like mountain passes and stuff. Like he, he, he, it wasn't just like level roadways. It wasn't just like going to the gym. Like he would figure out like the hardest thing you could do to train. And then that's what he would go do.

• 14:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. Pretty smart. Like I bet when he got on the basketball court, he's like, this is a piece of cake compared to going up a mountain.

• 14:42Josh Clark?

  Exactly.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:44Josh Clark?

  Do you want to take a break now?

• 14:45Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, let's take a break and we'll be right back with more on the great Terry Fox.

• 15:01Josh Clark?

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• 17:10Speaker 03

  First thought is like, wow, how are we going to do all this?

• 17:13Josh Clark?

  Hey, this is Josh and Chuck from Stuff You Should Know.

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• 18:21Josh Clark?

  Okay Chuck, so dialing it back a minute, the night before Terry's leg was amputated, it was his right leg, and again, it was about six inches above his knee was where they amputated. And the night before, his high school basketball coach, a guy named Terry Fleming, brought Terry Fox an article about a guy named Dick Trom, who was the first amputee to run the New York City Marathon. From what I could tell, he may have been the first amputee who ran any kind of marathon. And he became, after a car accident took his leg, he became an activist for accessibility. And so, it was a pretty inspiring article,

• 19:05Josh Clark?

  you know, and it just got right through to Terry Fox. Like, it was about the perfect thing that his, his high school coach could have done for him.

• 19:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. Because he hears this story, and I mean, almost immediately afterward, it's like, I know what I'm gonna do. Like, I know what my, my immediate life purpose is. I'm gonna run across Canada, and I'm gonna raise money for cancer research.

• 19:28Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And he also was kind of driven to raise money for cancer research, because one of his doctors had told him that if he'd been diagnosed just a few years earlier, he would have gotten way, way worse treatment. Like, it was just advancing. And just a couple years ago, his survival, his chance of survival would have been way less. So he was like, okay, actually doing cancer research is definitely worthwhile, too.

• 19:56Speaker 02

  Right. Like, they're making gains, and can make even more with more money and more research.

• 20:01Josh Clark?

  Exactly. You always say it better than me.

• 20:03Speaker 02

  That's not true. So, he keeps this, he didn't make some huge announcement at first. He told Rika, his girlfriend, he told his best friend Doug, and they start kind of training in private. Again, just sort of keeping it quiet at his local junior high. And the first, you know, prosthetics have come a really, really long way since, since Terry Fox's prosthetic leg.

• 20:30Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 20:30Speaker 02

  I guess we could talk a little bit about that. So, the guy who designed his leg, his name was Ben, I guess, Spiker was how I'd pronounce it. It was, you know, pretty new in like, the development of artificial limbs that you could actually, like, use for running and, you know, to be athletic on. It was a sort of a radical idea at the time, I guess.

• 20:54Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 20:55Speaker 02

  And so, they, they settled on something pretty simple. They didn't want to get like, too wacky with it. They just, you know, were like, this needs to be suctioned on to your remaining leg. And there's no shock absorption. It's, it's gonna be straight, like, this is, you know, pre, when they had things, obviously, like, these days, when you have stuff like Oscar, Oscar Pistorius and those like blades that he runs on, they're like a pound each. This thing weighed nine pounds and was just, uh, straight. So, it really modified the way Terry had to use it and had to run.

• 21:31Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Because he did, he lacked the muscles. Like, he had hamstrings, but they didn't reach down to his knee or his, his calf. Same with his quadriceps. So, he ended up having to do all of the work of running with his right hip muscles. And again, there's also no shock absorption. And Ben Spiker was really trying. They, they worked on a lot of different models. One of them was like a pogo stick, basically. It was based on a pogo stick. And like you said, they finally ended up on a simple version. And the simple version actually proved to be pretty smart, because when he started his Marathon of Hope, it needed to be repaired a couple of times along the way.

• 22:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, I think there was this one story where a, a guy at an auto body shop repaired it with like, car parts?

• 22:18Josh Clark?

  Uh, 78 Malibu parts.

• 22:20Speaker 02

  Hey, styling.

• 22:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And then there was a welder, I think, in Salt St. Marie, who, who fixed, who repaired it at one point, too. So, the fact that it was simple, helped him in the long run, even though it was excruciating to run on. Like, he, he very frequently, I think basically, the entire time, every day, he had blood like, coming down where his prosthetic met his, his leg.

• 22:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. Uh, the artificial foot was made from rubber and wood. Uh, they, I mean, they did the best they could with absorbing impact, but it was not great. Um, so, he had to adapt, like I said earlier, his running style into what they called a hop and skip running style, where he hopped on his left leg, and then would swing that prosthetic leg forward, and then skip back again, uh, to his left leg. So, uh, if you've ever, obviously, seen the great HBO movie, uh, I think there was one in the early 2000s as well, they did another movie, I haven't seen that one, or just seen a clip of the real Terry Fox.

• 23:23Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 23:24Speaker 02

  Um, you know, it's, it can only be best described as like, an awkward running style that, uh, you just had to grit your way through.

• 23:33Josh Clark?

  Yes, that's exactly right. And if you also, Chuck, are interested, I believe, three iterations of his artificial leg, starting with the first and then going to the, the one he ran on, um, they are at the Royal British Columbia Museum, I think, on display. Yeah, there's a bunch of, of stuff about him on display there now.

• 23:55Speaker 02

  All right. So, they eventually land on a version, again, that these days, uh, it seems very archaic, but back then, it did the job. Um, still a lot of discomfort, but he could start to run longer and longer. And he started training more. And he finally entered his first race in August of 79. Um, this is just six months after he started training. And he was like, I'm just gonna get out there, and run, like, try and get halfway through it, just to see what I can do. But he ended up running 17 miles, finished the race.

• 24:25Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And actually, he finished last, but he was just 10 minutes behind the last two-legged runner. So, um, he also got his first taste of being cheered on by a bunch of strangers who were moved by his determination, essentially, to become a key theme in the, the life of Terry Fox. So, he was like, okay, I can totally do this. I think he, when he, when he started training, he covered like 5,000 kilometers, I think, during his training period. And this is not over a terribly long time. I think, um, you said he entered his first race in August of 1979. He started the Marathon of Hope in, um,

• 25:04Speaker 02

  April of 80.

• 25:05Josh Clark?

  April of 80, right. So, okay. So, within a year, he'd already covered 5,000 kilometers in a prosthetic leg. Um, so he's like, I can totally do this. And he told his parents, his mom later said, I, I told them something along the lines of, I think you're crazy for trying this, but I read that his dad was like, when are you gonna start? It was just the way, I think, people approached Terry. Like, he was known to be very stubborn and determined, obviously. Uh, but he was like, you know, the point here is not for me to show off, it's to raise money for, uh, cancer research in Canada. And, like, he figured out that doing this was going to attract a lot of attention, and he could

• 25:47Josh Clark?

  use that attention to say, hey, thanks for the, uh, support, donate to cancer research. He needed the help of the actual, like, Canadian Cancer Society. And at first, when he approached them, they were like, that's a good idea, kid, but we're not really convinced this is gonna do anything.

• 26:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, you know, uh, he was trying to raise a million bucks, that was his goal. Uh, obviously, the Canadian Cancer Society, um, like any, um, organization like that, gets a lot of, um, queries and sponsorship requests from people.

• 26:19Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 26:20Speaker 02

  So, to them, I think this was just another one of those. And they said, he was pretty dogged, though. And they said, all right, listen, kid, uh, if you can get some other people on board as sponsors, then we'll, we'll talk. So, he and his mom wrote to a bunch of corporations. And, uh, it was pretty amazing. They got a lot of, uh, support right out of the gate. Um, the Ford Motor Company donated a camper van, because they needed a van to ride along on this whole run.

• 26:47Josh Clark?

  Yes, they also donated the grass, gas, or ass sticker that it came with.

• 26:51Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 26:54Speaker 02

  I finally bought one of these. I think I told you that.

• 26:56Josh Clark?

  No, you didn't.

• 26:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, a couple of years ago. It's my favorite bumper sticker of all time.

• 27:01Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 27:01Speaker 02

  I bought one and I put it on the, I have stickers on the

• 27:07Speaker 02

  big, huge, heavy trash can at my camp.

• 27:09Josh Clark?

  Oh, cool.

• 27:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I couldn't, I didn't put it on my car.

• 27:12Josh Clark?

  I was gonna say, this is a twist I had not expected.

• 27:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. It's at the camp. So they donate the camper van. Adidas donates 24 pairs of their running shoes.

• 27:24Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 27:24Speaker 02

  Imperial Oil and Safeway donated food and gas money. And then Pacific Western Airlines said, all right, we'll fly everyone out to Newfoundland, where you're gonna start this thing. And, you know, Godspeed. So he had those sponsors secured, went back to the Canadian Cancer Society, and they were like, all right, kid, you know, you went out and did what we asked you to do, so we're gonna get behind you in the Marathon of Hope, 4,600 mile. How many kilometers is that?

• 27:53Josh Clark?

  Something like 7,400 kilometers, I think.

• 27:57Speaker 02

  All right. Starting out in St. John's, Newfoundland, all the way to Vancouver, his home. And they were gonna begin, like I said, April 1980. So, you know, we talked about the physical training that happened. There was also the mental game, because obviously to undertake something like this, it requires, you know, the head, the heart, the physicality to do it all. And so he realized early on, like, I can't think of this as a 7,400 kilometer run. I need to think of it as like, one day at a time, and then within that day to break it down. Like, maybe I can run the next mile. And then, once I finish that mile, I can get another mile. And apparently,

• 28:40Speaker 02

  on days that were really, really tough on him, he'd say, I just need to run to that next stop sign, or to that next corner. And he would count telephone poles and do math problems in his head to distract from just the literal physical pain that he was going through.

• 28:55Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Which is probably the most difficult thing you can do as a runner, a long-distance runner.

• 29:01Speaker 02

  Math.

• 29:02Josh Clark?

  So much so, I remember probably 10 years ago, there was an article that profiled the woman who had, I believe it's retrograde amnesia, where you like, just reset, like, every couple of minutes, or every few seconds, depending on how your amnesia is.

• 29:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:17Josh Clark?

  And she was, she was protested by other runners, like professional runners, as having an unfair advantage.

• 29:26Speaker 02

  Oh, interesting.

• 29:26Josh Clark?

  Because they're like, that whole, like, the, as Iron Maiden put it, the loneliness of a long-distance runner, never built up for her. So they were like, that's not fair. But that just goes to show you how awful that the mental part of running is. So much more than the physical part, that they were like, this is, this is not fair.

• 29:46Speaker 02

  And I guess how awful competitive long-distance runners are.

• 29:49Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 29:51Speaker 02

  What, are you kidding me?

• 29:52Josh Clark?

  Yeah. They're like, have you never heard of Dick Traum in accessibility?

• 29:56Speaker 02

  Wow. That's, that's nuts. I can't believe they did that. It's not fair. She can't remember how awful it's been for the past hour.

• 30:04Josh Clark?

  That's pretty much the message here.

• 30:06Speaker 02

  Wow. All right. Obviously, I'm kidding about long-distance runners. They're great people.

• 30:09Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 30:10Speaker 02

  So he was getting dizzy spells. He would get double vision. He figured, like, it's just exhaustion, obviously. He had to get a certificate of health from a cardiologist from the Canadian Cancer Society to even undertake this. And when he did this, a doctor diagnosed him with an enlarged heart, which is not the most uncommon thing for like, an athlete like this.

• 30:36Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 30:36Speaker 02

  But the doctor was like, hey, listen, if you get out there, and you're short of breath, and you're dizzy, like, you've gotta stop running. And he just kept, Terry kept quiet about the fact that, like, yeah, buddy, that's already happening, and I'm pushing through.

• 30:49Josh Clark?

  Right. He said to himself quietly, nuts to that.

• 30:52Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 30:53Josh Clark?

  So he's gonna start running across the entirety of Canada with an enlarged heart on a prosthetic leg in 1980. And I feel like that's a great place for a break. When we come back, we're gonna kick off the Marathon of Hope, Chuck.

• 31:10Speaker 02

  All right. We'll be right back.

• 31:23Josh Clark?

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• 31:45Josh Clark?

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• 32:01Speaker 02

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• 32:25Josh Clark?

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• 32:48Speaker 02

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• 33:12Josh Clark?

  That's pretty awesome. And Smart Downloads automatically downloads videos by your favorite creators. So even if you forget to download it ahead of time, Premium has you covered. So if you like YouTube, you'll love Premium. Sign up now for your free trial. Terms and conditions apply.

• 33:33Speaker 02

  You know, you're never done decorating your home. You know what I mean?

• 33:36Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 33:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, because it's a process. There's always something you could do, or buy, or update. The only question is, what's next? For us, our animals just wear out our rugs so quickly, it's usually a new rug.

• 33:47Josh Clark?

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• 34:05Josh Clark?

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• 34:40Speaker 02

  All right, here we are. It's April 12, 1980. I have just turned nine years old. Don't know about Terry Fox yet, because the movie hasn't been made.

• 34:49Josh Clark?

  I'm coming up on four.

• 34:51Speaker 02

  See, that's why you didn't know. You didn't know about Robert Duvall on HBO when you were four?

• 34:55Josh Clark?

  Oh, I knew all about Robert Duvall.

• 35:00Speaker 02

  Big Apocalypse Now fan at four.

• 35:01Josh Clark?

  For sure.

• 35:03Speaker 02

  So Terry Fox begins his Marathon of Hope. He started off by dipping his prosthetic leg into the Atlantic Ocean on the coast of Newfoundland. And his goal was, all right, this'll be easy. I'll just go out and run about a marathon a day until I reach Vancouver. And maybe I can raise a million dollars by doing this. So lofty goals, you know, to raise a million bucks, it sounds kind of quaint now, but that, you know, it's a lot of money back then. I mean, it's a lot of money now, obviously, but if you're trying to like, raise money for cancer research today, somebody would obviously shoot way higher. But that was a ton of money back then to raise. And he, it was quiet at the

• 35:47Speaker 02

  beginning, because, you know, no one knew about Terry Fox at the time. So he starts out running, and there's like, you know, a couple of photographers there from the local paper, and like, six or eight people maybe clapping for him. But, and that's how it all started.

• 36:02Josh Clark?

  It did. And he got frustrated really quickly because he had the full support and encouragement of the Canadian Cancer Society, but that didn't translate into actual action on their part. Like for this thing to actually work, people had to know in towns ahead of

• 36:19Speaker 02

  Right.

• 36:20Josh Clark?

  schedule.

• 36:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:21Josh Clark?

  So that you had volunteers who were coordinating stuff, like getting the word out to the press. Like you needed CCS, like spokespeople talking to local newspapers and TV stations. Like you had to let people know so that they could show up and see him, be moved by what he was doing, and then donate. Like, that's just how it had to go. Or else he was just doing this for almost nothing. And that's how it went for like the first month. He would get very frustrated when he'd run through a town, sometimes a rather large town. They'd be like, who are you? We haven't heard anything about this. And I think in the first month, like a whole month, all he'd raised was $25,000.

• 37:01Josh Clark?

  And so because of this, like, he was, he was getting frustrated, not just with the Cancer Society, but just frustrated in general. I mean, like, I can't imagine how tired I would be after one marathon, rather than a month of daily marathons, essentially. And his friend Doug Allward had joined him to drive the van basically slowly with him. And they were living together in the van. So things were getting a touch tense very early on.

• 37:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. I definitely remember this from the movie that they were, they argued a lot. And they fought. Why is that so funny?

• 37:39Josh Clark?

  I just, I don't know. I just imagined Robert Duvall driving the van and turning around saying, pipe down back there.

• 37:46Speaker 02

  No, no, he comes along later.

• 37:47Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 37:48Speaker 02

  So, yeah, they were at each other's throats a lot. You know, Terry was, like you said, a stubborn guy. Apparently, he had a bit of a temper and would, you know, he and Doug would get in fights. It was a lot to undertake, like the pressure this guy was under to bite off something this, this big.

• 38:05Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 38:05Speaker 02

  And put himself out there like that. Obviously, was, there was a lot of stress involved. So Terry's brother Daryl joins them in New Brunswick to just sort of add like a, a third piece to that, to help diffuse the tension, I guess, a little bit. You mentioned that, you know, he wasn't getting a lot of attention at first. Apparently in Quebec, and this was, by the way, not our experience there, we loved Montreal. And we found the people there to be wonderful. But apparently, he didn't get any publicity coming into town, didn't raise any money at all in Quebec when he was running through and like angered a lot of drivers on the road. Apparently, they tried to run him off the road. People were honking at him. He tried running on the highway because it had like a shoulder to run on,

• 38:49Speaker 02

  but the police there like kicked him off the highway. So he didn't get a warm reception in Quebec at first.

• 38:56Josh Clark?

  Right. And also didn't raise very much money throughout the whole province. And I have to say, again, I agree with you. The people of Montreal were amazing. I had two Quebecois taxi drivers, one in Vancouver, one in Toronto. And both of them drove like total maniacs. I have to at least say that. They were great guys. I was talking to them, having fun, but they were maniacs. As, one of them actually turned around at one point where he's shooting down a right turn only lane to cut in in front of a bunch of traffic going quite fast. And he turns around and he's like, how do you like my driving?

• 39:35Speaker 02

  Wow. All right. So maybe this tracks with his experience with the drivers there, Terry Fox's.

• 39:39Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 39:40Speaker 02

  Okay. All right. So had it not been for the Toronto Star newspaper and a reporter named Leslie Scrivener, Terry Fox may not have garnered such widespread acclaim because she was drawn to Terry's story. And hats off to the Toronto Star because they really, really got behind him such that they assigned her to write a weekly column called Running with Terry, where she went on the road with them, basically, like reporting on everything that's going on. And by the time they get to Toronto, all of a sudden, he's running from, you know, Quebec. His, his spirits are down. No one really even knows what he's doing. And he comes into Toronto like, almost like a national hero overnight.

• 40:26Josh Clark?

  Yeah, pretty much. I read an article, I think from the Toronto Star where they quoted a, they said a grandmother age attendee, her name was Edith Cathy. She gave a quote to the, the paper where she said that she thought she was in love for the first time. It's been a long time since anyone has given me feelings, real feelings. He just seemed to fill your life with something that was missing. And like, that's kind of how he was starting to inspire people. Like he was making people like feel. And it very quickly became the whole country and then eventually spilled out of the borders of Canada into the world while he was doing this.

• 41:07Josh Clark?

  He finally, it did what he had set out to do. Like he had finally gotten to the hearts of Canada and Canadians. And now it was time for them to be like, we want to support you. Here's some money for cancer research.

• 41:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. And, you know, he was a, a young handsome guy. And so that certainly didn't hurt to, to capture the hearts of Canadians.

• 41:29Josh Clark?

  And he had a cool name.

• 41:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, Terry Fox, great name.

• 41:32Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 41:32Speaker 02

  When he got to Toronto, they asked him to do the kickoff of a football game there. Apparently, when he came on to the field, as the story goes, the stadium announcer says, ladies and gentlemen, and like the rest of it is drowned out because people are just going crazy. He met Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau. He met Bobby Orr, the great hockey player, and Daryl Sittler, another great hockey player, apparently his idols. They gave him an NHL All-Star jersey. So money starts coming in, celebrity starts happening. And he realized that like, you know, this is exactly what he wanted to help raise awareness and money. But it took a toll on him in that now every town he goes to,

• 42:14Speaker 02

  everyone wants to do an interview with him and everyone wants him to come do an inspirational speaking engagement. So, you know, he's running the equivalent of like close to a marathon a day.

• 42:24Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 42:25Speaker 02

  So he's physically wrecked. He has tendonitis in his ankle. He has a dry cough that wouldn't go away. And he is all of a sudden like, has to deal like constantly with being interviewed as a national hero, which was awesome, but like really depleting.

• 42:41Josh Clark?

  Not only that, like, there were, there were plenty of towns that wanted to like help him with fundraising events. But we need you to come give a speech so the, the Chamber of Commerce can have their picture taken with you for the local paper, like that kind of stuff. Not just, we're going to support you. We want something from you in return. And so to get that money, he would have to go do that stuff. And that's a, you, you basically can't, you can't run a marathon every day and then spend the evening at like fundraising events. One fundraising event with zero exercise in a day would wipe me out.

• 43:17Speaker 02

  Right.

• 43:18Josh Clark?

  Imagine doing a handful of them and after you ran a marathon that day, you also ran a marathon the day before and the day before that, et cetera.

• 43:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. All of the press wasn't kind too, which really, really stinks. There were some columnists who was like, you know, you're putting your life at risk, like kind of degrading him for that, which is something I don't understand. He, you know, there were like little offhand kind of like quotes they would get from, from his friend Doug and from his brother about like Terry snapping at them or something. So sometimes they would paint him as like a tyrant or having like a really bad temper, which apparently he had a bit of a temper, but like that's, that's not the lead of the story here, newspapers. So it's, that's really disappointing.

• 44:03Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And it's also one of those things, like put yourself in his position. Like would you, would your patience be thin?

• 44:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:09Josh Clark?

  Good lord. You know? So he was actually like, I think after that newspaper article accused him of cheating, he called the newspaper and was like, you better print a retraction. And they did. But I feel like that kind of like changed his perspective on things after that. And it really kind of brought him down. And he was, I don't, it might be overstating it to say like he was on the verge of giving up, but he really kind, his spirits had been, had taken a beating from, from that experience. And then along comes this little kid, inspiration in a 10-year-old package, a boy named Greg Scott, who has bone cancer himself.

• 44:50Josh Clark?

  And as a matter of fact, his leg was amputated as well. And he idolizes Terry Fox. This, he, he had been following him basically ever since the Toronto Star started, started reporting on him. And he was hoping he could accompany Terry on some of the run.

• 45:06Speaker 02

  Right. On his bicycle, which is just amazing. So all of a sudden, you've got this one kid with a prosthetic leg, 10-year-old riding his bike. You got Terry Fox, you know, literally running a marathon a day. So like the, the press coverage on this is just being amped up even more.

• 45:23Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 45:24Speaker 02

  And it really obviously inspired Terry, like you were saying, to keep going. About 3,300 miles into his run, Terry started, you know, he had a persistent cough, but he started feeling worse. And he was like, I might have the flu or something. But he was like, I gotta push through. He never took a day off in his entire run, we should mention. So he runs 20 miles that day anyway. The next day, he runs 23 and gets to Thunder Bay, Ontario, and is like, the pain in his chest is getting worse and worse. And it spreads to his neck. And he's like, maybe I'm having a heart attack and I'm going to die out here. So like, I gotta go to the hospital. He goes to the hospital and they said, you have a partially collapsed lung.

• 46:07Speaker 02

  We gotta do some X-rays and investigate what's going on. And Terry has a feeling like, I think my cancer has spread. And very sadly, he was right.

• 46:16Josh Clark?

  He was. After a couple of days in the hospital, they came back to him and they said, your, your cancer's metastasized. Your bone cancer is now growing in your lungs. And it turned out that he had a golf ball-sized tumor in one lung and a fist-sized tumor in the other lung. Don't forget his large heart that he started out with. And again, running on a prosthetic leg that, from circa 1980. And this was, I mean, Again, like just to have that life shattering news twice. And not only that, he's like, I can't, this is it. I can't run anymore. Now I have to stop and treat this cancer. So he called off the run very sadly.

• 47:00Josh Clark?

  He said that I'm, I'm going to have to go do this at least for now, but I'm going to try to continue after I beat this cancer. And, um, you know, you guys hang in there with me. And I just the devastation from having to stop. And he had gone well over the halfway point, which I found perplexing because Ontario is not even the middle province. I think Manitoba is. So it was like, he made it to Thunder Bay, Ontario, but he, he made it all this way. He had hugged essentially the Canadian, American border. And that had a lot of ups and downs and ups and downs. After Thunder Bay, it was basically a straight line out to Vancouver. So when he stopped and that had to make it all the more frustrating.

• 47:44Josh Clark?

  When he stopped, he was like, I have done the hardest part. The rest of it is like cake. And, um, but he, he knew that he had to quit. He did.

• 47:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, very sadly, it was 143 days into the run. He averaged 23.3 miles a day, uh, which is just incredible. Uh, raised $2 million, which is double his goal. Uh, but he would end up, uh, sort of inadvertently raising a lot more money. Um, because in September of 1980, uh, there was a telethon, uh, on TV, obviously. And 48 hours, there were, you know, Elton John, John Denver, uh, the great Gordon Lightfoot, of course, and Anne Murray, uh, great Canadians.

• 48:26Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 48:26Speaker 02

  Uh, Glenn Campbell, all these, um, musicians got together and performed at a telethon. It was a five hour live event, raised $10 million to add to his $2 million that he raised. And, uh, so, I mean, that was $12 million just in 1980 alone.

• 48:43Josh Clark?

  Uh, yeah. And then I think, uh, five months after that marathon of hope or telethon of hope, um, he achieved a follow-up goal that he had, which was raising a dollar for every Canadian citizen, which came to $24.17 million, Canadian dollars in 1980 money, which from the calculations I made is equal to just over 93 million Canadian dollars today.

• 49:12Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 49:13Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And just what he started in April, and this was September that he managed to do that by.

• 49:20Speaker 02

  That's tough. Uh, so after months of treatment, uh, he got pneumonia in June of 1981, uh, went into a coma and passed away very sadly on June 28th at, uh, the age of 22 years old.

• 49:35Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm. Uh, so as you can imagine, like the, the Canadian people and everyone following this took this quite hard. And he was immediately memorialized, even while he was alive, he was memorialized. He was the youngest person to, uh, receive the Companion of the Order of Canada, Canada's highest civilian honor. The Order of the Dogwood, which is British Columbia's version of the Camp Companion of the Order of Canada. He was inducted into the, uh, Sports Hall of Fame in Canada, all this while he was alive and as the youngest person. And then after he died, it just mushroomed from there essentially.

• 50:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. He's, uh, been on a couple of postage, uh, stamps in Canada. Um, it, the, this is, I remember this happening actually at the 2010 Olympic Games in Vancouver. Uh, his mom, Betty, served as one of the eight flag bearers, uh, for the Olympic flag opening ceremonies, very incredible moment.

• 50:31Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 50:32Speaker 02

  And, you know, he's, like I said, everywhere we went in Canada in Q and A, someone like asked us to do a story on Terry Fox. So he's still very much, uh, taught about in schools there. Um, his legacy today is probably the Terry Fox Run.

• 50:47Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 50:48Speaker 02

  Uh, organized by the Terry Fox Foundation. Um, they separated from the Canadian Cancer Society in 1988, but every year on the second Sunday after Labor Day, which is coming up, uh, kids, adults, uh, people all across Canada go for a run to raise money for cancer research and to honor Terry.

• 51:07Josh Clark?

  Yeah, just coincidentally, we had no idea, but this episode's going to come out a couple of weeks before the Terry Fox Run. Uh, so you can go try it yourself. It's September 20th this year. And, um, yeah, just go look up the Terry Fox Run and you can find a place near you that you can join a team and do some fundraising and all that good stuff. And it doesn't matter how far you run or how long, or if you've ran before, it doesn't matter. It's all just about raising money for cancer research. And of course honoring Terry Fox for what he did. Again, over the course of about a year, this, this kid became one of the greatest Canadians of all time, one of the greatest people of all time.

• 51:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. And, uh, you don't have to be just in Canada to take part in that. Uh, the Terry Fox Run happens all over North America and South America. It happens in countries in Europe, uh, Syria, Thailand, New Zealand. It's all over the place. And as of this year, uh, that foundation has reached, uh, its 1 billionth dollar raised for cancer research.

• 52:07Josh Clark?

  That's awesome, man.

• 52:09Speaker 02

  Incredible.

• 52:10Josh Clark?

  So that's Terry Fox. Heads off, Terry Fox. There's all sorts of footage of him, um, doing his thing on YouTube and all sorts of, uh, stories. And there's at least a couple of TV movies, one of which ran frequently on HBO back in the early eighties.

• 52:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:26Josh Clark?

  Yeah. So go check out more on Terry Fox and be inspired. Um, and in the meantime, I think it's time for listener mail.

• 52:35Speaker 02

  Uh, we got an email from a guy named Adam about, uh, remember when I was saying the space ghettos for space Spice Girls?

• 52:43Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 52:44Speaker 02

  And people are writing in now with more of these fun things, which is if you say this in like this accent, it sounds like this in another accent.

• 52:52Josh Clark?

  Let's hear it.

• 52:53Speaker 02

  Hey guys, your tangent of saying words that sound like other words really made me smile because my friends and I used to say these all the time. I was delighted I hadn't heard your example in the episode before. But here are the ones that we said most often. Uh, if you say beer can with a British accent, it sounds like bacon in Jamaican. So beer can.

• 53:14Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 53:14Speaker 02

  I guess.

• 53:14Josh Clark?

  Nice.

• 53:15Speaker 02

  If you gotta say it, uh, though, wouldn't a great British accent? But I see what he's saying. Uh, and then Adam says, uh, saying rise up lights in a British accent sounds like razor blades in Australian. So, uh, hand me some of those, hand me some of those rise up lights.

• 53:35Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that sounded exactly like that.

• 53:38Speaker 02

  Didn't you think so, razor blades?

• 53:39Josh Clark?

  I, I'm really intrigued by this. I feel like we've just cracked into a whole world that I didn't know existed.

• 53:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a thing. I can't believe you had never heard of any of these.

• 53:48Josh Clark?

  No, I've led a very sheltered life.

• 53:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. All right. Well, the, the doors are open to you now, my friend.

• 53:54Josh Clark?

  I know, the, the doors of perception have been thrown wide open.

• 53:58Speaker 02

  Uh, and that is, uh, from Adam. He says, I enjoy listening to you guys on my commute, especially the tangents and long running jokes. Cheers from Adam.

• 54:06Josh Clark?

  Thanks, Adam. That was great. Uh, I would love to hear some more of those too, so keep them coming, everybody.

• 54:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, same.

• 54:11Josh Clark?

  Uh, and if you want to share something about Terry Fox or some other inspirational person, or you just want to say hi, or you want to say pipe down back there, it doesn't matter. You can send it in an email to [email protected].

• 54:28Speaker 00

  Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 54:44Josh Clark?

  Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it starts with a great deal on an off-road ready Tacoma or half ton Tundra, two of Toyota's longest lasting trucks, combining power for work, tech for adventures, and style in between. And they're built on a reputation for quality and reliability, which is why Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which could mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. So get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for more. Toyota, let's go places. Introducing Voices of VivGart. VivGart is also known as its generic name, F-Gar Tegamod Alpha F-Cab. And this new show features firsthand stories from people living with a rare disease.

• 55:25Josh Clark?

  Hosted by Andrew Stratton, these perspectives highlight that life is more than a moment, a condition, or a tough day. Living with a rare disease can be challenging, but it does not define the Voices of VivGart. In these episodes, they share their stories, from diagnosis to working with their care team on their treatment plan. Listen to Voices of VivGart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 55:48Speaker 02

  Empower is all about helping you invest well so you can go out and live a little. And their free Empower Personal Dashboard shows you your full financial life in one place. You'll be able to see your net worth, monitor budgets, analyze your portfolio, set retirement goals and more. Whether you're saving for something big, want to treat yourself, friends or family, or meet long-term goals, Empower helps you see where you stand. You've worked hard for your money and Empower can help you make the most of it. Download the Empower Personal Dashboard or visit empower.com.

• 56:17Speaker 06

  Not an Empower client, paid or sponsored. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.