The 2026 Alternative Oscars, a.k.a. the 6th Annual Big Picks! Plus: The Craziest Awards Season in Years.

Sean and Amanda are joined by friend of the pod Wesley Morris for a very special episode! First, they react to the news that Paramount has won the bidding war for Warner Bros. and have an extensive conversation on the long-term ramifications for the industry (4:46). Next, they recap three recent awards shows with the ACE Awards, the PGAs, and the Actor Awards, and dissect what it means for the two-horse Best Picture race between ‘One Battle After Another’ and ‘Sinners’ (35:47). Lastly, they kick off their sixth annual Alternative Oscar awards (a.k.a. the Big Picks), in which they award alternative nominees and winners for the major Oscar categories, as well as some additional homemade categories which they believe should exist at the Academy Awards (1:30:00). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Wesley Morris Producer: Jack Sanders Production Support: Lucas Cavanagh Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the Personal Price Plan®️. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there®️. Visit us in stores and online https://Warbyparker.com/BIGPICTURE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I'm pro football Hall of Famer Brian Dawkins, and I lived for a long time with something I did not know the name of: major depressive disorder. I carried sadness and anger because I thought I could handle it alone, but I couldn't. Now I want to make sure others know that that support is out there. If you're experiencing similar symptoms, talk to a healthcare professional. Visit MDDAllies.com to watch my story.

• 0:25Speaker 01

  Paid partnership with Johnson & Johnson. Brian Dawkins has not prescribed Caplyta lumateperone.

• 0:37Speaker 02

  I needed more from my antidepressant, so my doctor added Caplyta lumateperone, proven to provide greater relief from depression symptoms than an antidepressant alone, building on my progress without starting over. Caplyta is for adults with major depressive disorder when used with an antidepressant and is available by prescription only. Individual results may vary. In clinical trials, weight gain was not common.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  Elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. Caplyta is not approved for dementia-related psychosis. Call your doctor about new or sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts right away. Antidepressants may increase these risks. Report fever, confusion, stiff muscles, which may be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. High cholesterol and weight gain may occur, as can high blood sugar, which may be fatal. Monitoring is recommended. Common side effects are sleepiness, dizziness, nausea, dry mouth, feeling tired, and diarrhea. These aren't all the side effects.

• 1:24Speaker 02

  Ask your doctor about Caplyta. Learn more at caplyta.com or call 888-252-4824.

• 1:46Sean Fennessey?

  I'm Sean Fennessey.

• 1:47Speaker 04

  I'm Amanda Dobbins.

• 1:47Sean Fennessey?

  And this is the Big Picture Right Conversation Show about the 6th Annual Alternative Oscars, AKA The Big Picks. That means Wesley Morris is here in the flesh. Hello.

• 1:58Speaker 04

  Hi.

• 1:58Sean Fennessey?

  Thank you for being here.

• 1:59Speaker 04

  All the way from New York. I'm all the way in the flesh. It's true.

• 2:03Sean Fennessey?

  We missed you last year. We need you on this episode. Thank God you're here. There's so much to talk about on this episode. It's not just going to be the Alternative Oscars. It's going to be...

• 2:13Speaker 04

  I mean, there's just so much stuff.

• 2:14Sean Fennessey?

  We got the awards race. We have the most significant merger in recent Hollywood history. We have a lot of conversation about how people's faces look on television. There's so much coming up here. Yes, it is important.

• 2:26Amanda Dobbins?

  And also our own faces.

• 2:27Sean Fennessey?

  And our own faces.

• 2:28Speaker 04

  I don't really think about my face.

• 2:30Amanda Dobbins?

  You look great.

• 2:32Speaker 04

  Just keep going.

• 2:33Sean Fennessey?

  The SAG Awards happened over the weekend, AKA the Actor Awards, the Producers Guild Awards.

• 2:38Speaker 04

  I just almost went like this. The what?

• 2:41Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, and we have our own hardware to dole out as well, which we will do so.

• 2:44Speaker 04

  You can only say actors now. It just sounds right.

• 2:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Does it?

• 2:47Sean Fennessey?

  It does not.

• 2:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 2:48Sean Fennessey?

  We will talk about it right after this.

• 2:50Speaker 04

  It sounds better than SAG.

• 2:54Sean Fennessey?

  This episode of The Big Picture is presented by State Farm. Sure, being an expert at movie trivia is impressive. You know what's even more impressive? Being smart about saving money. And a great way to do that is by saving when you choose to bundle home and auto with the State Farm Personal Price Plan. Bundling, just another way to save with the Personal Price Plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. Okay, before we start, we have a programming note.

• 3:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 3:24Sean Fennessey?

  We are entering the realm of live programming on The Big Picture. We will be doing live episodes of this show on Netflix.

• 3:30Speaker 04

  I'm very excited.

• 3:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, we have done them before, but not on Netflix.

• 3:33Sean Fennessey?

  Not on Netflix. As a kickoff, next week, we are doing a live mailbag. It will air live on Netflix, April 8.

• 3:41Speaker 04

  Mailbag is a good way to do it.

• 3:42Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. Noon Pacific, 3 PM Eastern.

• 3:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Why did you say April? It's March 8.

• 3:47Sean Fennessey?

  March 8. Why did I write April? It's March 8. This is, this is a very specific mailbag. It is in anything but Oscars mailbag. No Oscar talk on this mailbag. We've been doing a lot of Oscar talk. The season's been too long. It's actually gotten very interesting recently, and I'm happy about that. But no Oscars on this episode.

• 4:04Speaker 04

  Maybe I'll submit a question.

• 4:05Sean Fennessey?

  Please do. If you would like to submit a question, to reach us, you can email us at [email protected]. What is that email?

• 4:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Big Pick Mailbag, but do it this way. Big Pick Mailbag at gmail.com.

• 4:19Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. We also will be...

• 4:22Speaker 04

  It's like 1947 and this new device called television has just been invented. And we have our pitch woman for Ivory, Ivory detergent.

• 4:32Sean Fennessey?

  This is Ivory, not Ebony detergent, just for the record.

• 4:35Speaker 04

  Ebony detergent is a whole, whole other thing.

• 4:39Sean Fennessey?

  We're also going to be going live after the Academy Awards. Many people who listen to this show or watch this show have been asking us to do this for years and years, and we are finally going to do it, I think, really for the first time in big picture history.

• 4:49Amanda Dobbins?

  No, we were live for Parasite when your voice cracked.

• 4:52Sean Fennessey?

  Were we live on YouTube?

• 4:53Amanda Dobbins?

  We were live on YouTube.

• 4:55Speaker 04

  You're still holding that?

• 4:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, my God.

• 4:56Sean Fennessey?

  Were we live?

• 4:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, we were. I promise you that we were.

• 5:00Sean Fennessey?

  I don't remember that, but okay, that sounds right.

• 5:02Amanda Dobbins?

  That's a really crazy thing to remember.

• 5:04Sean Fennessey?

  Thanks for pointing out that my voice cracked.

• 5:05Amanda Dobbins?

  No, but we were talking recently about our various apex mountains on this podcast, and that was yours.

• 5:10Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, thank you.

• 5:11Amanda Dobbins?

  So I remember it fondly.

• 5:11Sean Fennessey?

  When I, when my voice failed.

• 5:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 5:14Sean Fennessey?

  Remember Parasite winning? God, that was so fun.

• 5:16Speaker 04

  Oh, you know what I think about all the time? I mean, I, that, that is great, but I think about Coda winning all the time.

• 5:22Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 5:23Speaker 04

  I mean.

• 5:23Sean Fennessey?

  That was a Zoom Oscars episode.

• 5:24Speaker 04

  But think about it, is this the right order? Did it go Green Book, Parasite, Coda?

• 5:32Sean Fennessey?

  No, Nomadland.

• 5:33Speaker 04

  Nomad, oh my, Nomadland.

• 5:35Sean Fennessey?

  That was Whiplash City back then.

• 5:37Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 5:38Sean Fennessey?

  Every year was a rejection of the previous year.

• 5:41Speaker 04

  I mean.

• 5:42Amanda Dobbins?

  And, but also both Nomadland and Coda were overshadowed. Nomadland was the second to last award given out that night. And the last award was the presumptive best Oscar for Chadwick Boseman that instead went to Anthony Hopkins.

• 5:59Speaker 04

  Who wasn't even there, yeah.

• 6:00Amanda Dobbins?

  So the very last thing you saw was like Anthony Hopkins' Zoom acceptance. And then Coda was the slap.

• 6:07Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 6:07Sean Fennessey?

  We're going to talk a lot more about previous iterations of the Oscars and what impact they are going to have on this race.

• 6:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 6:15Sean Fennessey?

  Before we do that, we have, we have to talk about Paramount and Warner Brothers, because, you know, that, that news broke late Thursday afternoon. I'll set the scene for you. Sitting at my daughter's music class, 3:30 in the afternoon, Jack texts me the news, "Hey, this happened, do you want to address this?" Wrote my little cold open while sitting in the waiting room of the music class, raced back to the office, looked down the barrel of that camera, shared some immediate thoughts. And then over the weekend, you know, it does seem like the industry is kind of on fire. You guys were at my place last night where we watched the Actor Awards and. Invariably, it led to a discussion about Paramount and Warner Brothers and the acquisition of the company. Amanda?

• 6:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I feel awesome. I'm excited. No, are you kidding? What?

• 7:01Speaker 04

  I was, okay, well, that was a little, that was a little Ivory detergent. It's a little Ivory detergent.

• 7:09Amanda Dobbins?

  No, once again, we live in hell. It's horrible. And I think the fact that everyone who knows, quote unquote, has been predicting this since the beginning and really-

• 7:20Speaker 04

  Wait, since the beginning of what?

• 7:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Since the original Netflix deal.

• 7:24Speaker 04

  Once the offer was out there.

• 7:25Sean Fennessey?

  Once it was announced that they were going to be sold, basically.

• 7:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes. And even when Netflix announced, oh, we've, you know, agreed to a deal for Warner Brothers, everyone was saying, no, no, no, it's not going to go through and it will be Paramount. That was the talk around town. That was what people who understand Hollywood business and angry rich people-

• 7:47Speaker 04

  Right.

• 7:48Sean Fennessey?

  I remember vividly, we were at a holiday party like a day after it was announced and all the people who were there who were plugged in were telling us that.

• 7:54Amanda Dobbins?

  And I think even before that, when the Warner's Discovery merger happened, it was like a, this is a built to sell situation that-

• 8:05Speaker 04

  Built to sell?

• 8:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes. And that, listen, I have no business degree, you know, I'm self-taught. But-

• 8:15Amanda Dobbins?

  But-

• 8:15Speaker 04

  All right, I'm going to absorb that.

• 8:16Sean Fennessey?

  A woman in STEM, yeah.

• 8:18Amanda Dobbins?

  But the common wisdom or the industry people were saying that, I mean, this has just been a series of like merger Lagos that people have been building and put together for a long period of time. So it, you know, was it foretold in a, in a like spreadsheet sense? Sure, maybe, but it feels terrible all the same.

• 8:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, mostly feels terrible.

• 8:47Sean Fennessey?

  There was some reporting about it this weekend, or I guess this morning, actually, which relates to the impact it'll have on the things that we cover and care about in general. Six billion dollars in budget cuts expected, which is going to mean the loss of a lot of jobs.

• 9:01Speaker 04

  And these are redundant, like so-called redundancies, right?

• 9:05Sean Fennessey?

  Marketing, business affairs, all these spaces where they're going to have a lot of overlap, but also an intention to make 15 movies at Paramount and 15 movies at Warner Brothers and have those two groups operating still with some continuity? A little unclear how that's actually going to shake out. And then in addition to that, the proper merging of Paramount Plus and HBO, that those two streaming services will come together. I think there's a lot more that's going to come here.

• 9:30Speaker 04

  Hopefully, hopefully, they're not coming together.

• 9:33Sean Fennessey?

  I, I, I don't know how, we actually were talking about this last night.

• 9:36Speaker 04

  You can come over here, and you can come over here. There's no coming together.

• 9:40Sean Fennessey?

  I don't, well, we would all love to come together, normally speaking, but I think, I just, the 30 movies thing is hard to believe. That's going to be hard.

• 9:49Amanda Dobbins?

  It's all, it's all hard to believe. This is all the talk that happens while you're waiting for approval and you're trying to get everyone to sign on the dotted line. And you're trying to get like Casey Boyce to not jump ship, uh, which, and, and his whole team. I don't want to dismiss the entire team at HBO. Uh, and it's, it's just like Ted Sarandos was on The Town last week saying, "The business will remain largely unchanged." That was his line. "Largely" is doing a lot of work. "This is our plan." Is doing a lot of work.

• 10:16Speaker 04

  As much work as his jeans were doing last night. Those jeans were working.

• 10:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 10:21Speaker 04

  Man wore, uh, was, what, was he also in a double-breasted?

• 10:26Amanda Dobbins?

  He was in a double-breasted tuxedo.

• 10:27Speaker 04

  Velour tuxedo jacket with...

• 10:30Amanda Dobbins?

  What makes you think it's not velvet?

• 10:32Speaker 04

  Sorry. It could be velvet. Excuse me. I will, I retract that.

• 10:37Amanda Dobbins?

  He just got 2.8 billion dollars for free, you know?

• 10:39Speaker 04

  I will, I will take, and I love that you just put it right in his pocket. It just goes right in his pocket.

• 10:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, that, that is one of...

• 10:47Speaker 04

  Which makes the jeans even more deplorable, to be honest.

• 10:50Sean Fennessey?

  Business up top, party down below. Yeah.

• 10:52Amanda Dobbins?

  Listen, he got out, he's not in a bidding war anymore. And so he's, he's wearing jeans.

• 10:58Speaker 04

  He's relaxed.

• 10:59Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 11:00Speaker 04

  I just sort of want to remove the people from this for a second, like the executive people.

• 11:04Amanda Dobbins?

  You shouldn't, because one thing about this is it's $2.8 billion is not going in his pocket, but the way that this deal is enriching a few number of executives who were put in place to execute this Lego plan is enriching. Continue.

• 11:19Speaker 04

  I think the reason, I, I just sort of want to think about what all of the bad news, the people losing jobs.

• 11:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 11:27Speaker 04

  The, the delusions we're being asked to accept about the reality, the sort of paradisical reality of what, what, what awaits us on the other side of the signing of this deal, the approval of it, which is almost certain to happen now because.

• 11:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 11:45Speaker 04

  You know, Larry Ellison be partying with, with the MAGA's. Yeah. I don't.

• 11:52Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 11:52Sean Fennessey?

  The California State Attorney General has said that they will fight this, right? That there is an attempt to, I don't know about fight it, but they will evaluate it aggressively. I don't know if they have enough strength to block it. There's also, I guess, fewer questions about international approval than there would have been with Netflix. The Netflix deal would have been harder to go through because Europe might have just said, no. We see this as a monopoly based on our standards, less true for Paramount and Warner Brothers.

• 12:17Speaker 04

  I think.

• 12:20Speaker 04

  It's just such a, I mean, I don't, this is like the ultimate signifier. I've got many other like little things that have sort of signified that this could happen, but now that this is happening, there are so many other things to, well, first of all, like, I would love to hear you guys talk to me about why this even needs to happen. I mean, it does not. Um.

• 12:41Amanda Dobbins?

  It doesn't. Other than the, it only needs to happen.

• 12:46Amanda Dobbins?

  In the, in the business spreadsheet shareholders leveraging like in, in, in this, this building block of nonsense that has nothing to do with art or movies or TV or anything or, or jobs, but just the structures that were put together financially 10, 15, whenever, 20 years ago, according to the business people. But it doesn't.

• 13:11Sean Fennessey?

  It's just like a, it's a, an outcome of conglomeration that once a studio becomes something that is only a piece of a larger puzzle and that synergies within larger conglomerates are more valuable, that you need to basically plug into something that has more than just the one output of a movie studio. You need to have a streamer. You need to be related to telecom.

• 13:30Speaker 04

  But they already had all these things.

• 13:32Sean Fennessey?

  But they didn't have a, like a larger tech apparatus. And that's the, that is the case that David Ellison is making. He's saying-

• 13:39Speaker 04

  Like what is the Pokemon that was, that you really needed to complete your set?

• 13:43Sean Fennessey?

  I'm not, I'm not justifying the acquisition because I've said the same thing that Amanda just said. This didn't have to happen. It's happening because of greed. But if you believe David Ellison, if you accept him at his word, he's going to say, we're going to change the way that Hollywood operates by using technology, which is at our fingertips because my father is the head of one of the most powerful technology companies in the world and one of the richest, more importantly.

• 14:02Speaker 04

  Anytime you were talking about a business transaction by saying the words, "my father."

• 14:07Amanda Dobbins?

  It's really not, it's not good.

• 14:09Speaker 04

  Hang up the phone. Hang it up.

• 14:12Sean Fennessey?

  Well, David Zaslove did not hang up. He accepted. And this is, so this is where we're at.

• 14:18Speaker 04

  It's a whole other series of problems.

• 14:19Sean Fennessey?

  I don't, I, it's going to take a while for this to get approved. I don't, you know, I don't know how often-

• 14:24Speaker 04

  Like probably a year. Is that what we're looking at?

• 14:26Sean Fennessey?

  It feels like, it feels like we will look at January 2027, maybe for when this would be approved, which would be while the Trump administration is still in office. The midterms will have happened by then, which will be an interesting turn of events. In the event that it is not approved by November, in the event that there is a big blue wave, maybe Congress makes more noise around this than they normally would. That's yet to be seen.

• 14:50Amanda Dobbins?

  But does Congress have anything to do ultimately with the approver? It's the DOJ.

• 14:55Sean Fennessey?

  I, I, I don't know.

• 14:58Speaker 04

  I do not see the FCC or, you know, to quote a different show that talks about this stuff all the time, Pamela Jo Bondi.

• 15:09Speaker 04

  Choosing to do anything other than stamp yes because there might be a seat on a yacht.

• 15:17Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, we're working at that level.

• 15:19Speaker 04

  I mean, I just think it's that simple. I don't know. I don't know that that Congress. I mean, of course, traditionally Congress has a role to play. I don't know if they'll be allowed to play their role. Or if the role they play will matter ultimately.

• 15:35Sean Fennessey?

  You know, Ruben Gallegos, the Senator, he, he, over the weekend said like, basically like, sure, keep merging and building up these mega companies because as soon as we're back in power, we're going to start breaking them up. He was very vociferous about that. He's one of the very few Democratic politicians who is as.

• 15:49Speaker 04

  Good for him. Good for him. Good for him.

• 15:51Sean Fennessey?

  Full throated about that kind of thing.

• 15:53Speaker 04

  But I, like with all these things that have happened in the last

• 15:58Speaker 04

  14 months, I wonder how much of what has transpired can be de-transpired, right? How much can be reversed?

• 16:10Sean Fennessey?

  They very rarely get broken up.

• 16:11Speaker 04

  I just don't see this happening in the way that, I mean, it's a great thing to promise to try to do. I just don't know how doable it will ultimately be. But, but again, now I'm sort of coming back to what this is gonna look like for my Friday night.

• 16:30Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 16:30Speaker 04

  Do you know what I mean?

• 16:31Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Either at home or at the movies.

• 16:34Speaker 04

  What am, what am I doing on Sundays? I mean, Sunday for, for millions of us, it's like.

• 16:41Sean Fennessey?

  HBO time.

• 16:42Speaker 04

  It's HBO time. It's still, after all these years, HBO time.

• 16:46Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 16:47Speaker 04

  And

• 16:51Speaker 04

  Paramount's

• 16:54Speaker 04

  second biggest movie in the last year is something called Scream 7.

• 17:00Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, the number one movie at the box office this weekend.

• 17:03Speaker 04

  Their second biggest movie is the seventh Mission Impossible. Is it the seventh one, the eighth one?

• 17:09Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, eight, right?

• 17:11Speaker 04

  I mean.

• 17:12Sean Fennessey?

  The Final Reckoning.

• 17:12Speaker 04

  It's clear they needed something to happen, but I'm like, can y'all study the legacy of Sherri Lanzing? I mean, there's a whole history here. I mean, again, I'm probably down here when really we need to stay up here because they don't, they don't even, I am talking about this like, It's a. They're experiencing a creative crisis when the reality is, what I'm just, what is, one person's jewel is another person's excrement. And, you know, they can find a way to turn this shit into money, whether, whether it's an actual gem or it's day shit or not.

• 17:51Sean Fennessey?

  I think Amanda's Lego metaphor is apt. I think that this was like an acquisition of a lot of individualized pieces of Legos. And one of them is a big Batman Lego, and one of them is a Harry Potter Lego, and one of them is a Game of Thrones Lego. And they're gonna like stack them and try to build a beautiful tower of content and try to synergize them across technology and make a lot of money.

• 18:13Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 18:13Sean Fennessey?

  That's the plan.

• 18:13Speaker 04

  But, alright, so.

• 18:15Sean Fennessey?

  Is it gonna work? I don't know, maybe.

• 18:16Speaker 04

  We just watched the former SAG Awards. Sure. Last night.

• 18:23Speaker 04

  This is the thing I think about all the time. Like, I'm a big fan of like, where is, where is this person right now? Where is X? Like, what happens to X?

• 18:34Speaker 04

  I can name fifteen actors. Like, this isn't, this isn't like a real actor crisis, right? Whether you're at the bottom of that ladder or at the tippity top. This is like, this is less for everybody. Less work, probably money, well, work and money, those are the two most important things.

• 18:57Speaker 04

  I don't know, I just don't know, I just, this feels apocalyptic in ways that, I mean, I'm sure the people who are experiencing this on the receiving end, understand what a cataclysm this is. But, I don't know, has the public ever really protested?

• 19:17Sean Fennessey?

  No, and they won't here.

• 19:18Speaker 04

  One of these situations, because I feel like if you lay it out. I mean, in a way, in a much more articulate way than I could, like, what really is about to happen? What is three years from now, if this goes through, what does it look like? Does it feel like what things felt like during the pandemic or the strike?

• 19:37Sean Fennessey?

  Um, I mean, maybe a little bit more, because this is actually a really interesting topic. I was just talking to Amanda right before we started recording about how Neon is effectively changing ownership right now, that a new investor is coming in.

• 19:49Speaker 04

  To do what?

• 19:50Sean Fennessey?

  30 West is moving out, this company, Department M is coming in. My, my guess is that it's to supercharge Neon to make them a bigger studio. And so there is about to be a moment, because we're taking a legacy studio off the board. We took Fox off the board, uh, seven years ago. MGM and Amazon merged. So there's like a bit of a vacuum here, to your point about jobs and opportunities. So Neon and A24 are trying to backfill, movie's trying to be A24 now, there's something, there's like a shift, and then behind them is like, Black Bear is in, Roque is in, all these smaller indies are in, and there's an attempt to kind of like rebuild a couple of bigger studios, and then backfill the indies behind them. Whether or not that can happen, it's harder now than it used to be.

• 20:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, but there's two giant pack people out there. Pack people, just like pack, pack entities, that like, the minute Neon builds itself into something, you know, gobble-able.

• 20:40Sean Fennessey?

  Somebody will gobble it.

• 20:41Speaker 04

  Somebody will gobble it.

• 20:42Sean Fennessey?

  People have been saying that about A24 for years, and that may happen. You know, the fact that Apple didn't buy and has not bought A24, I still find to be really interesting.

• 20:49Speaker 04

  Have they tried? I mean, but that's a company with integrity, as far as, I mean, at least business integrity, right?

• 20:56Sean Fennessey?

  All these companies are built to sell.

• 20:57Amanda Dobbins?

  I think it's just also that they haven't had as much business success with, you know, it's a drop in the bucket. Yeah, why would they?

• 21:04Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, you mean Apple?

• 21:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, why would Apple, oh, you meant A24. Sorry, I'm sorry, A24, of course, A24, I love you, sure, don't email me, don't, bros, don't email me, but, um. No, Apple. Apple buying it doesn't seem to make any sense just because like what Apple's forays into.

• 21:20Sean Fennessey?

  I think if they just really want to be in a more aggressive horse race around building a content library, that's something that, that's really the only case for it. This is like not our area of expertise. I just think it's really interesting that if you, by taking that huge player off the board, you're gonna have fewer jobs, fewer opportunities, fewer films, fewer television shows, in all likelihood.

• 21:38Speaker 04

  But I like being stupid about it because my lack of educational knowledge about how business deals work, I mean, it allows me to sort of think about what really it's gonna mean for my TV-watching and movie-going life. And the things, I don't know, it's just like, these people are fucking with our dreams here. No, and I'm, I mean that.

• 22:05Sean Fennessey?

  It's a good way of putting it.

• 22:05Speaker 04

  You, they are, they are fucking with how we develop as a culture, how we come to understand ourselves as a people. What, what this country ought to or should look like 40 years from now, you know, I'm in the middle of, y'all have heard me talk about this for 11 years, but like, I'm, I'm almost finished. And, you know, like, I've been using this, this opportunity to, to work on this book to understand that the history of our country, pretty much the entire history of our country can be told through American movies between like 1915 and like formerly today.

• 22:52Speaker 04

  And.

• 22:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 22:53Speaker 04

  In, in all kinds of ways. Like, the farm crisis of the 1980s has been documented in Hollywood movies.

• 23:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Yep.

• 23:03Speaker 04

  Like.

• 23:05Sean Fennessey?

  It's still happening.

• 23:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 23:07Sean Fennessey?

  It is in one battle after another. Like, it may not be exactly how you want it told.

• 23:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, but Sean.

• 23:12Amanda Dobbins?

  And a different version of history is Told in Sinners, and both are Warner Brothers movies.

• 23:15Speaker 04

  Right, right, but let's just really dial that back a little bit, right? Because I'm not talking about movies that even go to the Oscars.

• 23:24Sean Fennessey?

  Right, right.

• 23:25Speaker 04

  I'm talking about movies that just got made.

• 23:28Sean Fennessey?

  You're right, of course.

• 23:29Speaker 04

  And nobody went to see them, but they're still with us. Or like, they, they were kinda hits, but you know, the Academy didn't wanna do anything with them. I'm talking about an entire ecosystem that existed purely for the sake of art itself and rolling the dice on the possibility that if we put Jessica Lange in a movie about her Nazi father, and she discovers that he's a Nazi, and then she defends him in the, in the courtroom trial. This is Music Box, a very good movie from 1989.

• 24:04Speaker 04

  Somebody might wanna go.

• 24:05Sean Fennessey?

  Aman Mueller Stahl.

• 24:05Speaker 04

  Aman Mueller Stahl!

• 24:07Sean Fennessey?

  It's a good movie. Is it Kostigovris?

• 24:09Speaker 04

  Kostigovris.

• 24:10Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 24:10Speaker 04

  Ding ding ding ding ding. Uh, so I'm just saying, like, there's like a whole, there's a whole kinda star we don't get. There is a whole, like, mode of acting that never gets developed.

• 24:21Sean Fennessey?

  I think you're right.

• 24:22Speaker 04

  There are, I mean, I'm just, I'm, I'm just thinking about this from the standpoint of history. And we're already in the cataclysm. We've been in it for fifteen, almost twenty years now, where the priorities have just completely shifted. And what it's gonna look like to know what this country was like just by going to the movies is gonna be harder to discern. It's just not reflecting reality. And not that the movies were reflective of the actual reality, but every prong of every crisis can be found in a national crisis, like, local crisis can be found, you know, up to like, I would say like, maybe the early 2000s in our movies.

• 25:06Speaker 04

  And I would include the, you know... The 2000s themselves as being still interested in what it is like to live in this country at that moment in real time.

• 25:17Sean Fennessey?

  We talked about this through 25 for 25 and our top three were movies where we were sort of like past, present, future, where we talked about, um, There Will Be Blood, 25th Hour, and The Social Network as this kind of trilogy of movies that were reflecting on where we came from, where we are, where we're going. And I, I think movies will still do that. They can still do that. There's still gonna be a lot of, you know, Universal, we were saying last night is like, kind of, maybe it's licking their chops a little bit.

• 25:42Speaker 04

  Oh, I, sure.

• 25:43Sean Fennessey?

  At least when it comes to movies, because they're gonna be like, we're gonna have a lot of opportunities here.

• 25:46Speaker 04

  I think we agree that Donna Langley is the single, not the single most interesting, because everybody's, every, everybody on the board is interesting. But I feel like anytime I talk to somebody about like what it's like to be out here and like how things are, like, like studio people, um, there is a kind of like,

• 26:10Speaker 04

  I love Universal. I love the idea of Universal. What's gonna happen to Universal? And I just feel like, I don't know what they're, I don't know what, I don't know how this looks to that company.

• 26:21Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's probably very scary to have to compete if you're Universal, which is also, you know, a broadband cable company, to have to compete with a Paramount, Megalith, plus Netflix, plus Amazon and Apple's unyielding financial power. However, they've done a really smart thing in the last 10 years by basically re-centering to being like, we're a filmmaker studio.

• 26:41Speaker 04

  Right.

• 26:41Sean Fennessey?

  We're the home of Jordan Peele and Christopher Nolan and Steven Spielberg and we sign up A-plus talent. That's what we do and we make cool movies.

• 26:49Speaker 04

  And we do okay. We do really okay.

• 26:51Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. So in that respect, I think it's okay for the broader, like, what does, what does this mean for Peacock? I mean, Peacock was not in a good place before. I can't imagine they're in a better place now.

• 27:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, I don't, I don't know. I just feel like this is really, really, really, really, really, really bad. And I would love somebody to say Wesley.

• 27:10Speaker 04

  It's not that bad.

• 27:11Sean Fennessey?

  No one has said that.

• 27:12Amanda Dobbins?

  No.

• 27:13Speaker 04

  Nobody is saying that. Nobody is saying that.

• 27:15Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, the other thing we've talked about on this show that echoes what you're saying is just as movie people and as movie people who came of age when movies were still like the dominant American art form and an art form that wasn't created here, but certainly, as you said, like the, the roots in how and what. The US, the America is and how it's been expressed and

• 27:44Amanda Dobbins?

  sold to the world are here and it just, the movies are no longer the center of culture and they are no longer the way that we investigate ourselves, the way, they're not what people look to anymore.

• 27:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 28:00Amanda Dobbins?

  And this feels like, well, but this feels like just a confirmation, like another, like a really big chip off the mountain just of what we had as a movie going culture keeps going. And even the fact that the, the details of these studios are sort of like a footnote in what, like what's going to happen to Warner Brothers and what will happen to Paramount and how they will make movies.

• 28:26Speaker 04

  Like in the way that we're talking about it?

• 28:27Sean Fennessey?

  No, they're, they're less important than what is going to happen to Batman.

• 28:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Exactly.

• 28:30Sean Fennessey?

  That's actually how this is being consumed.

• 28:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Is that it's just kind of, oh, and you know, we'll figure it out.

• 28:35Sean Fennessey?

  Well, there's no, there's no like thought about the legacy of Warner Brothers going into this acquisition. It's about the legacy of what Warner Brothers has. I think. I mean, I think that's what's most valuable to David Ellison, who's, and, and also to Netflix. I think Netflix wanted it for that reason, to kind of optimize every, the access to those worlds.

• 28:55Speaker 04

  What about the Dangerous Liaisons verse?

• 28:59Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, if you, yeah, we can build that out. You want to expand that universe?

• 29:02Speaker 04

  That's a Warner Brothers property.

• 29:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Cruel Intentions 5?

• 29:06Sean Fennessey?

  Could be good.

• 29:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Or 8? I don't know how many Cruel Intentions there are.

• 29:08Sean Fennessey?

  I'm going to pivot us to awards season because we could talk about Paramount for months and months and we probably will.

• 29:14Speaker 04

  But if there is somebody out there who's got some good news with respect to all of this, I would love to read that, hear from that person.

• 29:22Sean Fennessey?

  We're not going to know honestly what it really means for 24 months because it's going to take a year to clear and then another year to greenlight a bunch of new movies that will be like, oh, this is what Paramount Warner Brothers is. That's a long time from now.

• 29:35Speaker 04

  Before we move on, I just, I guess I would-

• 29:37Amanda Dobbins?

  But the Beatles movies still won't be out.

• 29:42Amanda Dobbins?

  It'll still all happen before the Four Beatles movies.

• 29:45Sean Fennessey?

  That's so crazy.

• 29:46Speaker 04

  Is it one, they're doing one a year?

• 29:47Sean Fennessey?

  No.

• 29:47Amanda Dobbins?

  No, one a week. April 2028, we're just hanging on.

• 29:51Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Those will be our final episodes of this show. That's when Amanda and I, we move to Hawaii after that, we're done. But those episodes will be 24 hours long, each one. We've been preparing our whole lives.

• 30:03Speaker 04

  You guys are crazy. Um, I am, I've got a lot of feelings about, I mean, like knowing how you feel, I mean, you know.

• 30:10Amanda Dobbins?

  About the Beatles?

• 30:11Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 30:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 30:13Sean Fennessey?

  It's a religion.

• 30:14Speaker 04

  I've got a lot of questions.

• 30:15Amanda Dobbins?

  We didn't even talk about Harris Dickinson last night, but that's a whole other.

• 30:18Speaker 04

  Was he there?

• 30:19Amanda Dobbins?

  No, which is why.

• 30:20Speaker 04

  Um, which is why what?

• 30:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Which is why he didn't come up in the list of, you know.

• 30:26Sean Fennessey?

  Men that Amanda wants to fuck, yes.

• 30:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Excuse me, it's not quite like that. Amanda has an appreciation for.

• 30:34Speaker 04

  I'm like immune, I'm like, I guess we, we differ in every way except for your husband.

• 30:39Amanda Dobbins?

  I know, that's why, but it's a lovely place where we meet.

• 30:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, I just like, none of your men are my men.

• 30:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, it's true. Last night I spent a lot of time defending Jacob Lurie to you.

• 30:49Speaker 04

  Not defending.

• 30:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Not defending.

• 30:51Speaker 04

  I understand it, it's just nothing happens. Wait, but seriously, I, are you, you guys talk to filmmakers? I don't talk to filmmakers.

• 31:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, you do.

• 31:01Speaker 04

  I mean, I don't, I really don't. I don't, I've not talked to a real, I mean, I don't talk to the people you talk to is what I would say.

• 31:11Sean Fennessey?

  I think they're scared.

• 31:13Speaker 04

  They're scared?

• 31:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Of course, yeah.

• 31:15Speaker 04

  And are they?

• 31:15Sean Fennessey?

  It's hard to get stuff made, it's harder than ever to get stuff made. And it's harder to get stuff made with big conglomerates. And when you go into those situations with fewer options, it's harder to make more money. It's harder to get something off the ground. I think it's interesting to look at what, like, James Mangold is somebody I think a lot about in this configuration, right? Like really, like older craftsman who has a ton of respect, who has been Academy Award nominated. And he's like, I really want to make a Star Wars movie. You know, and he's gonna make a thriller with Timothy Chalamet, but he's also working on a Star Wars movie. And there's a certain class of person who's already like crossed the threshold of being able to work. But they know that to keep working at scale and to get their smaller movies made.

• 31:59Sean Fennessey?

  They really do got to participate in the big old franchise game. And Paramount's gonna up the ante on that stuff, too. So that'll be interesting. Now, younger filmmakers, it's fucking hard, man.

• 32:09Speaker 04

  Well, this was, you know, my little purity test that I used to maintain are like, not against the filmmakers, but against the industry insisting that like, you know, the Edward Schultz's of the world can't go into the tractor beam because look at what they have to offer the world.

• 32:27Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 32:28Speaker 04

  Like,

• 32:31Speaker 04

  or, you know.

• 32:32Sean Fennessey?

  They can go to TV. I mean, and I think a lot of.

• 32:35Speaker 04

  Eggers. I mean, there's so many.

• 32:36Amanda Dobbins?

  But that is already contracting and will contract.

• 32:39Sean Fennessey?

  It is. I think Eggers is a really good case for the future might be okay. I think he is using IP, but he's using it very thoughtfully.

• 32:46Speaker 04

  He's doing smart things with it. I just, I just worry. I mean, I think, I mean, I remember thinking like, like Chloe Zhao. The first thing she does after she wins her Academy Award for Best Director. Isn't it make the Marvels?

• 33:02Sean Fennessey?

  It is. Yeah. Eternals. Yeah.

• 33:03Speaker 04

  Eternals. Sorry.

• 33:07Speaker 04

  I just was like, well, this is, well, here we have it. But I think I have to stop with that because it's not fair to the environment for these people. I'm not letting the industry off the hook, but people have to eat.

• 33:20Sean Fennessey?

  She did the same.

• 33:21Speaker 04

  People, people are, people have.

• 33:22Sean Fennessey?

  She did the same thing.

• 33:23Speaker 04

  Things they want to say.

• 33:24Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 33:25Speaker 04

  And I can't, it's not in my, it's really none of my business what the artists choose to do. I would just say that if, given, given the option of doing 10 more Nomadlands and 10 more Hamnits, if you're, if you're Chloe Zhao, I don't, I can't think for her. But I don't know if, I mean, having seen what, seen the Eternals and having seen the other movies, I'm, I'm convinced that one thing is a better use of her than the other thing.

• 33:56Sean Fennessey?

  I think, I think I agree.

• 33:57Speaker 04

  I don't know. I don't, like, she, feel free to disagree, but I, I do think that that having these, these artists make these choices.

• 34:08Speaker 04

  And have the choice be a question of like, well, it's like either I'm working or I'm not working. And at what point do my principles, because also the bigger these companies get, the more politics becomes an issue, right?

• 34:23Sean Fennessey?

  This is a, that's a whole other rabbit hole. Yeah.

• 34:25Speaker 04

  And you're then making a whole other series of choices.

• 34:29Sean Fennessey?

  Paramount is about like, what is the character of their films? What, what, what is the messaging for lack of a better term? Who gets to work?

• 34:36Speaker 04

  Who gets to work?

• 34:37Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, the mad act likely who gets.

• 34:38Speaker 04

  What does it look like to let Jordan Peele make a movie? I mean, we know he's fine at Universal if, but like, let's just say.

• 34:45Sean Fennessey?

  There's a long term impact.

• 34:46Speaker 04

  Guess what, look, guess what the pipeline is going to look like for non-straight white men to make anything?

• 34:55Sean Fennessey?

  We're gonna find out.

• 34:56Speaker 04

  If there's somebody in the company who's just like, nope, D E I, D E I, D, you know, I, I don't know what that looks like.

• 35:04Sean Fennessey?

  I think, I do think.

• 35:05Speaker 04

  I mean, I do know what it looks like and it's grim.

• 35:07Sean Fennessey?

  I do think historically in this business, money wins. There does have, they do have to lift the gates sometimes, but they're not going to not hire somebody if they think they can make them money while being controlled by them. So that will be a component of this, this decision making.

• 35:23Speaker 04

  I don't know, man, like, can you be a five-star general? Is that, is that an option? I just think a lot about Lloyd Austin getting fired. The minute they came back into office, Lloyd Austin was one of the first Negroes to lose his job. And this is a highly decorated person who was running the Department of Defense. Or not even, he was a Joint Chiefs, I think. And just, see ya. We don't need you. This is like, I'm just, also, we don't need you because once you made a video, where you were just like, yeah, it is hard to be a Negro in the American military.

• 36:06Speaker 04

  And I have a lot of historical, I, I bring a lot of history with me to this job and I'm watching what's happening in the streets right now and it's making me sad. That was enough, you know? I just feel like.

• 36:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, I know we're gonna start talking about awards. I just feel like, like, it's interesting to have One Battle After Another and Sinners be at the top of that conversation. And the lesson.

• 36:31Amanda Dobbins?

  And be Warner Brothers movies.

• 36:32Speaker 04

  What are the lessons that are gonna be learned?

• 36:34Sean Fennessey?

  I think a lot of people are seeing this news and even this award season as like a kind of a Viking funeral, that this is like a send off of an era. I don't know if that's gonna turn out to be the case. You know, The Odyssey is gonna kick ass. Like, it's not like movies are going away forever. Like, it's gonna be fine in that very specific short-term respect, but.

• 36:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, but for 10 people, what does newness look like? Also, yeah, it's Christopher Nolan doing the, the oldest story ever told?

• 37:01Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, that's movies, though.

• 37:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Story by Christopher Nolan and Homer.

• 37:05Sean Fennessey?

  Does it say that? Is that the credit?

• 37:07Amanda Dobbins?

  And IMDb credit page was that for a while. Yeah, I don't, I mean, which is, let's, you know.

• 37:12Sean Fennessey?

  I deserve to stand alongside Homer.

• 37:14Amanda Dobbins?

  That's not Christopher Nolan updating it, but yeah.

• 37:16Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. Uh, there were a number of precursor award shows over the weekend. The first was the Ace Eddie Awards. That's the editing group. They gave Best Edited Feature Film Drama to Sinners and Best Edited Feature Film Comedy to One Battle After Another, much like the Golden Globes. That tells us nothing.

• 37:34Speaker 04

  Also, they're breaking it down like that, too?

• 37:37Sean Fennessey?

  I don't understand what, I mean, I guess there are different editing rhythms to those different genres that are worth noting, but I find splitting up Best Film Awards to be very strange. Uh, the Producers Guild Awards, of which I am a member and voted, uh, transpired on Saturday, and One Battle After Another won the Daryl F. Zanuck Award for Outstanding Producer of Theatrical Motion Pictures. So, just to give you guys some context, One Battle After Another has now won the Critics' Choice Award, the Golden Globe for Musical or Comedy, the BAFTA for Best Film. It won an Ace Award, it won the DGA for Paul Thomas Anderson, it won the Producers Guild Award, and it's probably gonna win the WGA Award for Adapted Screenplay. That is the strongest Best Film package in the history of the Academy Awards.

• 38:22Speaker 04

  Really?

• 38:23Sean Fennessey?

  And yet.

• 38:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, and yet.

• 38:25Amanda Dobbins?

  And yet.

• 38:25Sean Fennessey?

  And yet, we will get to. Um, Sinners. Has not won a single major best picture precursor. No critics groups, no CCA, no Globes, no BAFTA, no PGA. Just cinematic and box office achievement at the Golden Globes.

• 38:41Speaker 04

  Boo.

• 38:42Sean Fennessey?

  However, here is one historical data point. It has won SAG Ensemble, which you will get to momentarily. It has won an ACE Award, and it is also almost certainly going to win the WGA Award for Original Screenplay. And no movie who's had those three awards has ever lost best picture.

• 38:58Speaker 04

  Oh my god.

• 38:58Sean Fennessey?

  So we have.

• 39:00Speaker 04

  It's two undefeated.

• 39:01Sean Fennessey?

  Two trains.

• 39:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 39:03Sean Fennessey?

  On a track.

• 39:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 39:05Sean Fennessey?

  We can talk about what we think is going to happen there. It's, it's, it's very strange for a movie. It would, it would be the biggest upset in movie, in Oscars history if Sinner's wins. Like Spotlight won the Spirits and the LA Film Critics Circle, National Society of Film Critics. Moonlight won the Globes and all four major critics awards. Parasite won the Palme d'Or and major critics groups like.

• 39:26Speaker 04

  Talk to me about Coda. Talk to me about Coda.

• 39:28Sean Fennessey?

  Coda won, uh.

• 39:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Something at Sundance.

• 39:31Sean Fennessey?

  It won. SAG?

• 39:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Like many years before, yeah, and Troy Kotsar won as well at SAG.

• 39:38Sean Fennessey?

  Coda, what awards did Coda win? Let's take a quick look at that.

• 39:41Speaker 04

  I'm just saying, like, Coda is my favorite best picture win story of all time.

• 39:45Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, and it, Coda was a late surger, for sure.

• 39:49Speaker 04

  Well, we know what happened. I mean, I mean, we've, we've, we have discussed this before. I love this, I love that it happened because it's such a, this is what y'all all get. Now, I like Coda a lot.

• 40:01Sean Fennessey?

  Coda won the Spirit Awards.

• 40:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Hmm.

• 40:05Sean Fennessey?

  Oh no, sorry, it did not. That was Troy Kotsar.

• 40:07Speaker 04

  I don't think it even won that.

• 40:10Sean Fennessey?

  It won, this is a really good question.

• 40:14Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, Coda won PGA.

• 40:16Speaker 04

  Did it? Okay.

• 40:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh.

• 40:17Speaker 04

  But because, because you know what happened.

• 40:19Sean Fennessey?

  When Coda won PGA, that's when everybody was like, oh, actually, it's Coda. It's definitely not Power of the Dog.

• 40:23Speaker 04

  I, but have I told this story to, have I talked to you about this before? Like, I feel maybe I've talked to Bill about it, like. I just remember, maybe I just texted somebody after this happened, but like, you know, I washed it at home, like everybody else. And the, like, the minute they get to the audition. For Berkeley.

• 40:46Speaker 04

  I mean, I'm-

• 40:47Sean Fennessey?

  When she sings "Both Sides Now"?

• 40:48Speaker 04

  I'm crying.

• 40:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. Who's not crying?

• 40:51Sean Fennessey?

  It's incredible.

• 40:52Speaker 04

  I'm crying, and I said, "This isn't fair." This isn't fair because if, if this is happening to me in my living room, it's happening to everybody else in their living room.

• 41:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, yeah.

• 41:05Speaker 04

  And it is, I watched it during open, while the ballots were still open. And I'm like, "There's no way," I'm not in, you know, I don't vote for anything, but like, there's no way, if I'm an Academy voter, that my ballot is sitting here unsent. And I'm not like, "Ding."

• 41:25Sean Fennessey?

  Well, so, I think that's very-

• 41:26Speaker 04

  Putting it first.

• 41:27Sean Fennessey?

  I think that's very notable and resonant in this particular race because the conversations that we were having were like, "The Power of the Dog" is a very well-made film by a hugely admired filmmaker who had not won in that category before.

• 41:40Speaker 04

  And nobody I knew liked one second of watching it.

• 41:43Sean Fennessey?

  And Coda is from a filmmaker we've never heard of. There was an Apple movie that premiered at Sundance, but everybody was like, "That movie makes me feel good."

• 41:51Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 41:51Sean Fennessey?

  And sometimes, a movie that makes people feel good just wins. And, and this year-

• 41:56Speaker 04

  And it was a time that we wanted to feel good.

• 41:59Sean Fennessey?

  I think "Sinners" is the movie that people are like, "This movie makes me feel good." Now, that doesn't mean it's gonna win. Those movies don't always win.

• 42:06Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I do think, I, I think "Sinners" does make people feel good, or at least excited. And we've seen that at every single awards show that we've watched or attended. Like, there's a Coogler Hive, I'm a proud member, you know? I had to get involved with that, and-

• 42:23Speaker 04

  What is me, what do you mean, "get involved with that"?

• 42:24Amanda Dobbins?

  That's a quote from when he was on Amy Poehler and talking about discovering the soda fountain, the soda machines at the movie theater-

• 42:31Sean Fennessey?

  You could mix the flavors. He was like, "I was not really, I didn't used to be a soda guy."

• 42:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, my god.

• 42:38Sean Fennessey?

  And then I saw you could mix the flavors, and I had to get involved with that.

• 42:40Speaker 04

  All I want is Ryan Coogler starring and curb your, curb some more enthusiasm.

• 42:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Exactly.

• 42:48Amanda Dobbins?

  So there is- There's like a huge, huge, huge amount of enthusiasm for that movie. But I don't think that One Battle has the same problems that Power of the Dark has. And in fact, there is-

• 43:01Sean Fennessey?

  As Bill Simmons famously once called it, "The power of the nap."

• 43:03Amanda Dobbins?

  No, there is, there is like an equally passionate group of people who love not just PTA, but this film and were like really energized by it. You've seen it how many times now?

• 43:15Sean Fennessey?

  Seven.

• 43:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 43:16Sean Fennessey?

  Seven times on the big screen.

• 43:17Speaker 04

  I thought four was a lot.

• 43:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Right. So I, I think it's, you're right that there is some like emotional pull to Sinners. And I think that that really could push a lot of voters this way, but it's not like replacing, you know, a lack of enthusiasm on the other side, the way that Coda was.

• 43:37Speaker 04

  Can I present something here?

• 43:42Speaker 04

  It's Sunday on the West Coast at, uh,

• 43:51Speaker 04

  nine o'clock PM on the 15th.

• 43:58Speaker 04

  And Sinners is just one Best Picture.

• 44:05Speaker 04

  What is, how do I put this? What does it look like for One Battle after another to have lost the Best Picture Oscar?

• 44:18Sean Fennessey?

  Like- For whom?

• 44:20Speaker 04

  Because-

• 44:20Sean Fennessey?

  Like is it a culture war? Is that what you're asking?

• 44:22Speaker 04

  No.

• 44:23Sean Fennessey?

  God, oh my God, I didn't even consider that. I think there'll be ugly takes in the aftermath, yeah. In either direction, in either direction.

• 44:30Speaker 04

  There are, people, people gotta stop. Wait, is this the thing? These movies are being pitted against each other?

• 44:36Sean Fennessey?

  Well, they're just, they're the two leading contenders. So I think they're both beloved. However, they both have strong detractors.

• 44:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 44:43Sean Fennessey?

  Like any, like any favorite.

• 44:45Speaker 04

  I am, I am, I'm gonna talk to one of my favorite people who is a vociferous detractor for One Battle after another. But I think that the, I mean, the wonderful thing about these two movies being at the top of the pile is they are speaking to each other.

• 45:01Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 45:01Speaker 04

  Like-

• 45:02Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 45:02Speaker 04

  These movies are the, one of the great best picture double features ever.

• 45:07Sean Fennessey?

  Totally agree. We've been saying it for months.

• 45:09Speaker 04

  And they don't like, it's, I mean, one can definitely exist without the other, but the fact that they both exist together to me.

• 45:16Sean Fennessey?

  It makes me feel like we're in the seventies where you would be like, gosh, I don't even know what to pick.

• 45:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, I don't, I don't know. I mean, I think part of what I'm wondering here is like, I know there's a world where it's like sinners loses and it's like sinners had a great, it was, sinners did the most. It had the greatest run. Everybody loved it. It had the most nominations and then, but I feel like if one battle after another loses, it's just gonna be another one of these, well, gosh, Paul Thomas Anderson just can't get it over the line, Kenny.

• 45:46Sean Fennessey?

  But then, but then he, I think if that happens, then he goes, cause this is his best chance, right? This is, he'll never have a better chance than this. This is the biggest movie he's ever made. It is the most success. The, the, the run of Precursors is crazy town. I mean, it's been dominant. You've been saying it ever since way before the Academy Award nominations. You were like, this gets decided very early. A movie usually goes on a crazy run. This movie has done that as strong, pretty much as strongly as Oppenheimer.

• 46:13Sean Fennessey?

  If he doesn't win, he immediately goes into. On the record, better, better than Oppenheimer.

• 46:17Amanda Dobbins?

  I agree.

• 46:18Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. I, I agree too, but that's fine. Um. Not even close. I think he immediately becomes, it's like Kubrick, Hitchcock. I'm sorry. There's that short list of film, master filmmakers, geniuses of their era, who don't win. And he goes into that canon.

• 46:37Amanda Dobbins?

  But here's the thing.

• 46:37Sean Fennessey?

  And then maybe he wins for some other movie he makes when he's 76 or whatever. I don't, I don't know.

• 46:41Amanda Dobbins?

  No, here's the thing. I do think that Paul Thomas Anderson is a lock for director.

• 46:45Sean Fennessey?

  He is.

• 46:46Amanda Dobbins?

  So that is interesting. And you see in the coda, power of the dog year, there was a split. Jane Campion did win director.

• 46:56Speaker 04

  I don't like this either, though.

• 46:57Amanda Dobbins?

  You don't like the split?

• 46:58Speaker 04

  No, I mean, I don't like the.

• 47:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Best director award at all.

• 47:01Speaker 04

  I don't like the history of the split.

• 47:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 47:03Speaker 04

  Because it, it now, now we're at a point of like elite, elite Hollywood politics. Although like, we can talk about what Hollywood politics even means with this academy now. But we're at a point where the, with the politics of this show and this award where.

• 47:24Speaker 04

  We don't have a black director who's won this prize yet.

• 47:27Sean Fennessey?

  Do not.

• 47:27Amanda Dobbins?

  No.

• 47:28Speaker 04

  And I don't like the idea of best picture being a consolation prize. Because.

• 47:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Is it a consolation prize? I feel like director is a consolation prize.

• 47:39Speaker 04

  I feel like it's just happened, Steve McQueen.

• 47:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 47:43Speaker 04

  Barry Jenkins.

• 47:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 47:45Speaker 04

  I don't, I don't enjoy this, right? Where I, I just like, let a brother win best director. I'm, I, I, I don't know.

• 47:55Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm not gonna argue with that.

• 47:56Speaker 04

  You know what's funny? I don't, I'm not, I'm, I'm saying this and it's completely untethered to an argument about the directing of both these movies. I think every time I watch Sinners, I'm just like,

• 48:12Speaker 04

  wow.

• 48:15Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. I know, we talked about this last week.

• 48:17Speaker 04

  I mean, Paul Thomas Anderson, like,

• 48:22Speaker 04

  it's very, very hard because somebody's gotta not win.

• 48:28Speaker 04

  And.

• 48:29Sean Fennessey?

  However, this is, this is unusual and, and I, I want to talk about this, the actor awards because they're related to this, but you know, in all likelihood,

• 48:39Sean Fennessey?

  they could both get two. They could both get.

• 48:41Speaker 04

  Oh, the screenwriting.

• 48:42Amanda Dobbins?

  The screenwriting, I think they will.

• 48:43Sean Fennessey?

  They're both gonna get screenplay.

• 48:45Speaker 04

  Sure, sure.

• 48:45Sean Fennessey?

  And, and PTA is almost certainly gonna win director. He won at DGAs. And then if picture goes to Sinners, then Ryan gets one too, and then it's two to two. And then that would be the most harmonious balance that I think that the Academy could land on.

• 49:00Speaker 04

  These guys have punched it out so many, these guys.

• 49:02Sean Fennessey?

  I still think one battle is gonna win. It's hard, it's hard to not assume one battle's gonna win.

• 49:06Speaker 04

  They've been fist bumping for six months now. It's like.

• 49:08Sean Fennessey?

  Oh yeah, and they're, they're buddies.

• 49:09Speaker 04

  I don't, I mean, I don't like, I don't even like the idea of. Again, like, I don't believe these two movies are in opposition to each other in any other way.

• 49:18Sean Fennessey?

  They're not, but this forces, I mean, this experience forces it. So the thing that happens, let's talk about the actors in full. Sinners did win Ensemble, which was predicted, and I think follows, frankly, the Actor Awards, the SAG Ensemble Award, is a much more generous award to black films and black actors than the Academy Awards are. Recent winners include Black Panther, Ryan Coogler's film, Hidden Figures. You know, it also does not.

• 49:44Speaker 04

  I forgot Hidden Figures.

• 49:45Sean Fennessey?

  It does not really correlate typically with Best Picture. Last year, you may recall, Conclave won Best Ensemble, not Anora, despite Anora having a dominant Oscar night.

• 49:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, but I think those people are voting for the right reasons, right? Like, I feel like that Ensemble, in most cases, I understand, I under, these are people who, I mean, you guys told me who all is in SAG-AFTRA last night.

• 50:10Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, it is actors, but it is also radio and television broadcasters and weathermen and influencers.

• 50:17Amanda Dobbins?

  But to be clear, not the three people sitting at this table.

• 50:20Sean Fennessey?

  That's true, not neither, not a certain union. However, I will say, I think less than 5% of the membership of SAG votes for the Academy Awards.

• 50:27Speaker 04

  Right.

• 50:27Sean Fennessey?

  Like, it's a small number of people, so be careful in terms of trying to make correlation.

• 50:31Speaker 04

  I'm not, I have no correlation to make, I just want to say they understand what an ensemble is, generally. They really do understand what an, even in the nominating, you know, what it turns out to be. I think One Battle After Another is the best casting-directed movie of the year, of last year. But obviously, Sinners, just for Miles Keaton alone, is an achievement.

• 50:56Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 50:59Speaker 04

  You know, Secret Agent wasn't part of the situation at the SAG Awards.

• 51:02Sean Fennessey?

  None of the international features were.

• 51:04Speaker 04

  But also, like, just one of the great, great cast movies of, great casted movies of 2025.

• 51:10Sean Fennessey?

  It's a funky award, I always point to 2020 as this award being maybe not as relevant. Do you remember which movie won in 2020 for Best Ensemble?

• 51:18Amanda Dobbins?

  For the films of 2020?

• 51:20Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 51:20Amanda Dobbins?

  So not, because Parasite won in February. Okay, so 2021.

• 51:26Sean Fennessey?

  This is a great footnote.

• 51:28Speaker 04

  Wasn't.

• 51:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, what movies came out in 2020?

• 51:33Amanda Dobbins?

  So not Nomadland?

• 51:34Sean Fennessey?

  Not Nomadland. Obviously, an outlier year for the Academy Awards, given the number of releases, but think hard.

• 51:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Hillbilly Elegy.

• 51:41Sean Fennessey?

  No. The answer is The Trial of the Chicago Seven.

• 51:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, sure. Another Netflix movie.

• 51:48Sean Fennessey?

  Nomadland not even nominated in the category.

• 51:51Speaker 04

  That's a well-cast movie, though.

• 51:53Sean Fennessey?

  Nomadland?

• 51:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 51:54Sean Fennessey?

  Similar, actually, to One Battle After Another with a lot of non-professional actors.

• 51:58Speaker 04

  I mean, I don't love that movie, but casting-wise, I'm not arguing with it.

• 52:02Sean Fennessey?

  Anyway.

• 52:02Speaker 04

  But I get the... I mean, listen, listen. Trial of the Chicago Seven.

• 52:08Sean Fennessey?

  Your favorite film of that year?

• 52:10Amanda Dobbins?

  That's a movie that happened.

• 52:11Sean Fennessey?

  An astounding achievement that we will forever remember.

• 52:15Speaker 04

  Are they sure they weren't... I mean, I'm sure most of the people thought they picked up their Emmy ballot.

• 52:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 52:21Sean Fennessey?

  Big-time HBO original movie vibes with that one.

• 52:25Sean Fennessey?

  So Sinners Wins Ensemble, and the reason that I got all excited to talk to you about this is that the biggest surprise of the night, and the best moment of the night, in my opinion,

• 52:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 52:34Sean Fennessey?

  was Michael B. Jordan winning Best Actor for Sinners,

• 52:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 52:37Sean Fennessey?

  which I would never in a million years have predicted. Some people have predicted it. I gotta give it up to Clayton Davis from Variety. He has been holding the line on this, and he hard predicted this last night.

• 52:46Speaker 04

  He must have blown out of his house.

• 52:49Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, and he has been holding on Sinners winning Best Picture. He had Ensemble. He has been saying, "This is going to happen." Now, we've been talking Timothee Chalamet in this race for many, many months. He showed weakness at BAFTA when Robert Armaio won.

• 53:03Speaker 04

  He showed weakness.

• 53:06Sean Fennessey?

  He bent the knee to the film, I swear.

• 53:11Sean Fennessey?

  And now, and now I feel like his odds are going to plummet, obviously, not winning SAG. He won SAG last year, and no one has ever won SAG two years in a row. That has also been noted quite a bit.

• 53:21Speaker 04

  Really?

• 53:21Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. So maybe they were just trying to pivot. They said we gave it to him last year. Who knows? Could Michael B. Jordan win Best Actor at the Academy Awards? You actually, right before the award was announced, you turned to us and you were like, "I feel like people are not saying, 'He's really fucking good in this movie.'"

• 53:37Speaker 04

  I, I, I had to say it to myself. I had to remind myself. I'm like writing something about...

• 53:45Speaker 04

  How it is, how easy it has been to sleep on him. Well, he made it easy. He's, he has made it easy.

• 53:52Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 53:53Speaker 04

  But I think that there is something about the, like, he's talked about Ryan Coogler in his speech last night. In a way that was so not, we're homies and friends. It was, oh my God, I might start crying. It's like, you see something in me. Thank you for seeing like what my talent can do.

• 54:12Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 54:12Speaker 04

  Like, that's not a like, yo, man, I've been telling you for years, we got this on lock. You and I, we keep doing it together. I'm, I'm picking up this penisless trophy. But.

• 54:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Amy Madigan.

• 54:26Sean Fennessey?

  We'll get to her.

• 54:27Speaker 04

  It doesn't have a dick. She is like, that is, that is like real statue criticism 101.

• 54:33Sean Fennessey?

  Do most statues have dicks?

• 54:35Speaker 04

  That's the problem.

• 54:35Sean Fennessey?

  Statuets, most statues do.

• 54:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, they do. Sure.

• 54:39Sean Fennessey?

  He does.

• 54:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 54:40Sean Fennessey?

  But does Oscar doesn't.

• 54:41Speaker 04

  That at is doing a lot of work.

• 54:43Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 54:44Speaker 04

  Don't, oh, whatever. Don't even get me started about emasculating statues. But what he, the way he talked about Coogler was so like genuine. And it was almost as though like Scorsese had given him the part. Or, you know.

• 55:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 55:02Speaker 04

  Spike Lee had given him the job.

• 55:03Sean Fennessey?

  He tapped him on his shoulder in an early state, at a pivotal stage of his career with Fruitvale, where he was like coming out of The Wire and Friday Night Lights and he cast him in his debut feature. And now they work together in, on every movie.

• 55:16Speaker 04

  Right.

• 55:16Sean Fennessey?

  And they are, they are.

• 55:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 55:17Sean Fennessey?

  Scorsese and De Niro. I mean, that is what they're doing.

• 55:19Amanda Dobbins?

  And, and they do also, I mean, he's right.

• 55:23Speaker 04

  No, no.

• 55:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Respect to Michael B. Jordan for understanding that like Coogler like understands and helps him do something.

• 55:30Sean Fennessey?

  He's writing with MBJ in mind.

• 55:31Amanda Dobbins?

  He does not, that, that MJ doesn't always find in his other performances and his other films.

• 55:36Speaker 04

  But if you watch the, I mean, if you, I, I don't know. I, I now have recently watched it. Watching only what he's doing. And I guess it's easy to miss for a number of reasons. And I don't know if this, I mean, we can talk about this later, but like, not the greatest line reader.

• 55:55Amanda Dobbins?

  No.

• 55:56Speaker 04

  Not the most, um.

• 56:00Speaker 04

  Emotionally variant.

• 56:02Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 56:03Speaker 04

  Uh.

• 56:04Sean Fennessey?

  Hey, he's a stern jawed leading man.

• 56:07Speaker 04

  He doesn't have what, whatever range is, that's not his thing. But Kugler understands that there's this inner fire in this man. And I don't know how he directs actors or Michael B. Jordan, um, for that matter. But there is something about this gauge that he has. That he, only in his movies, does that temperature fluctuate in a way that transmits emotion to an audience.

• 56:41Sean Fennessey?

  I always, I always think of it the way that, watch, um, a movie, watch a Tarantino movie with Samuel L. Jackson or Christoph Waltz. Tarantino knows how to write for those actors better than anyone. And you see Christoph Waltz in Frankenstein and you're like, why is this not interesting? Why is this annoying? And you watch him in one of the Tarantino movies and you're like, why is this the best actor on earth?

• 57:02Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 57:02Sean Fennessey?

  And same for Sam Jackson. Sam Jackson reading Tarantino lines. And I feel that Kugler really, really knows how to write for MBJ. And that that is why he is, literally his top five performances are just in Kugler movies. And that's great, and they should be rewarded for that. I mean, you could say the same for De Niro, that he is frequently doing his best work when he's working with the person who understands him the best as an actor.

• 57:22Speaker 04

  I just was very moved by the, by how moved and touched he was. And to remember that like, there's a world where I am, all I'm doing is selling Alexa in a bathtub.

• 57:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 57:34Speaker 04

  And having that be the most important work I've ever done.

• 57:38Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 57:38Speaker 04

  Cause listen, that was important work.

• 57:42Sean Fennessey?

  Do you think he can win?

• 57:44Amanda Dobbins?

  I really have no idea. I really.

• 57:47Speaker 04

  You said Wagner Moro could win.

• 57:49Sean Fennessey?

  I think he can.

• 57:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Certainly, I think your interpretation that like, Timmy's kinda out. Is, and I think that was really confirmed at BAFTAs because-

• 57:57Speaker 04

  But what is, but talk to me about that. What is, what are we really saying when we say that?

• 58:03Amanda Dobbins?

  He's lost the momentum. And, and voting is open right now. And there has always been a, a pretty loud resistance to it. Not for me.

• 58:13Speaker 04

  To, to, to him?

• 58:14Sean Fennessey?

  He hasn't given a speech in weeks.

• 58:16Amanda Dobbins?

  To him and to-

• 58:18Sean Fennessey?

  That's just the best way to put it.

• 58:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Right. And the, and-

• 58:21Speaker 04

  Jesus Christ.

• 58:22Amanda Dobbins?

  The reason that I had written Wagner Moura off, which like, I think like, January 8th, after the Golden Globes, I was like, it's Wagner Moura.

• 58:29Sean Fennessey?

  You did.

• 58:29Amanda Dobbins?

  It is like, this is happening. Um, never underestimate, never underestimate Brazil, Leslie.

• 58:35Speaker 04

  No.

• 58:36Amanda Dobbins?

  But, um-

• 58:37Speaker 04

  You out here like-

• 58:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 58:38Speaker 04

  I'm like, they speak Spanish.

• 58:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 58:41Speaker 04

  I don't, I've never, I have never-

• 58:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Right, no, yeah. But so Wagner Moura also has just not given a speech since the Golden Globes. You know, and that's because-

• 58:51Speaker 04

  But he gave a speech. He got to give one.

• 58:54Amanda Dobbins?

  He did, but I think it's just, at this point-

• 58:58Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 58:58Amanda Dobbins?

  It is a little bit who's in front of people's eyes right now.

• 59:02Sean Fennessey?

  It's just very confusing because Wagner Moura to me would be a very representative new Academy win. Right? It's a movie that made it into Best Picture. It's a movie that has a tremendous amount of admiration. It's a Cannes film. He won Best Actor at Cannes. He won the Golden Globe. But then he didn't even make the shortlist for BAFTA and he didn't get nominated at SAG.

• 59:21Speaker 04

  They released a shortlist?

• 59:22Sean Fennessey?

  They do.

• 59:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 59:23Speaker 04

  I don't know how I missed that.

• 59:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Whatever's going on over there.

• 59:26Sean Fennessey?

  BAFTA's crazy.

• 59:27Speaker 04

  I'm sorry.

• 59:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 59:28Speaker 04

  Did y'all see what happened during the broadcast?

• 59:31Amanda Dobbins?

  We did.

• 59:32Speaker 04

  Did we need to know that happened? Was it a two hour delay? And we still found out?

• 59:37Amanda Dobbins?

  And they edited other things out.

• 59:38Speaker 04

  I mean, come, well, I mean-

• 59:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Not good.

• 59:41Sean Fennessey?

  Very strange award show. But honestly, we've always had a little bit of a critical distance from on this show. We've been criticized for not engaging with it and there's a reason why we don't love engaging with it.

• 59:50Speaker 04

  They've always made some BAf- BAftling choices. I just don't understand. I don't, I don't know. I, I-

• 1:00:00Sean Fennessey?

  The, the Aramia win though, in that category, I think, is really what throws this into a sense of disrepair. Like I, I don't, and you know what? Honestly? Fucking A. This is so great.

• 1:00:11Speaker 04

  It makes it, it makes it fun.

• 1:00:12Sean Fennessey?

  For such a big award to be in, like, the coin is in the air until March 15th is so fun.

• 1:00:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:00:18Sean Fennessey?

  I don't, I honestly don't know what I'm gonna predict.

• 1:00:20Amanda Dobbins?

  The reaction in the room was electric. I mean, first of all, so Viola Davis was presenting and-

• 1:00:24Speaker 04

  And she couldn't, I mean, I love it when-

• 1:00:26Amanda Dobbins?

  She was great. It was wonderful. She, like, she had her moment and-

• 1:00:29Sean Fennessey?

  Already some great memes of her reacting.

• 1:00:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, totally. You ask me what she's up to and it's like Delta and now memes.

• 1:00:37Amanda Dobbins?

  But, and, and everyone was so excited. And I think a little bit of it was the excitement of surprise.

• 1:00:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:00:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Um, and then, and if you watch the reactions, which I have many times, Jesse Plemons immediately very excited. Ethan Hawke immediately very excited. Timmy putting on his vest. I'm happy for him's face.

• 1:00:55Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, Leo, not there.

• 1:00:56Sean Fennessey?

  Not there. He's making a movie with Martin Scorsese.

• 1:01:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Um.

• 1:01:02Speaker 04

  This is really fascinating. Like, I, I mean-

• 1:01:05Sean Fennessey?

  Great speech, by the way.

• 1:01:05Speaker 04

  Yeah. Great speech.

• 1:01:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Amazing. Also taking his mom for, like, finding parking and- Yeah, it was so lovely.

• 1:01:12Sean Fennessey?

  Very good. Really, really, really, like, rare, like, awards moment, a award show moment where you're like, this is what, this is what, it can be good. This can be good.

• 1:01:19Amanda Dobbins?

  And also after much debate over the course of the night, we decided it was a good suit. We liked the suit.

• 1:01:25Sean Fennessey?

  Tom Ford.

• 1:01:26Speaker 04

  No, I didn't change my mind about that.

• 1:01:27Amanda Dobbins?

  No, you said good suit.

• 1:01:29Speaker 04

  But the pants were probably-

• 1:01:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, listen, there, there is a problem with men's tailoring.

• 1:01:32Sean Fennessey?

  There was, there, there were some angle, there were angle issues as well.

• 1:01:36Speaker 04

  There is a-

• 1:01:36Amanda Dobbins?

  And there were some angle issues.

• 1:01:37Sean Fennessey?

  And there were some, there were some camera issues. The whole show is a little complicated for the actors.

• 1:01:41Speaker 04

  I mean, like, can I, just like-

• 1:01:43Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:44Speaker 04

  Boys and girls.

• 1:01:45Sean Fennessey?

  No one can see this. Can anyone see this?

• 1:01:46Amanda Dobbins?

  You wanna stand up on the thing?

• 1:01:47Speaker 04

  Like, I will take my shoes off because I'm in New York. Like, you can't, nobody wants to see this.

• 1:01:55Amanda Dobbins?

  This is why we flew you out.

• 1:01:56Speaker 04

  Nobody wants to see this. If, I mean- You gotta just take it in a little bit more. So nobody can see your inner seam.

• 1:02:06Sean Fennessey?

  I agree with this.

• 1:02:07Amanda Dobbins?

  I agree with you. Yes.

• 1:02:09Speaker 04

  Like, you gotta just cinch it.

• 1:02:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:02:13Speaker 04

  Also, two breaks. You don't need two breaks on a tuxedo.

• 1:02:16Amanda Dobbins?

  You don't need to.

• 1:02:17Speaker 04

  Especially if you've got a wide, wide leg. No. What are we doing, people?

• 1:02:24Amanda Dobbins?

  The breaks were such a problem across the board that I did think.

• 1:02:28Speaker 04

  And every man who came out.

• 1:02:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Then I did think some of it had to do with the, so all of the feature films, the ensembles were presented by, you know, a group of cast members. And it just a very strange below the stage upwards angle, which helps no one. Like, why, why are we doing this?

• 1:02:44Speaker 04

  I can't tell if that really is the issue here.

• 1:02:46Amanda Dobbins?

  But it did accentuate the breaks. Like, the, the breaks were sort of, were greenlanded, if you will, within the, the frame, you know?

• 1:02:56Speaker 04

  But this now means that these stylists have a new job.

• 1:02:59Amanda Dobbins?

  They, well, they've never been able to get men's tailoring fresh.

• 1:03:02Speaker 04

  Hey, Jacob, stand on this box.

• 1:03:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:05Speaker 04

  And I'm gonna, I'm gonna get down, all the way down here with my camera, and I'm gonna see, like, is this button ruching up on your, on your, uh?

• 1:03:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:15Speaker 04

  On your double-breasted jacket? I don't know.

• 1:03:17Sean Fennessey?

  It's an amazing physical performance from you today so far.

• 1:03:20Speaker 04

  I just don't, I don't know. It just really, Del Rey Lindo knows how to wear a tuxedo and knows what notes to offer. I don't know who's dressing him.

• 1:03:29Sean Fennessey?

  But he was also just wearing a much more classical tuxedo.

• 1:03:32Amanda Dobbins?

  And taller. He is taller.

• 1:03:34Sean Fennessey?

  He is taller. That's, that is a factor too. He was the tallest guy on stage for the citizen.

• 1:03:38Speaker 04

  Jacob Elordi is like nine feet tall.

• 1:03:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, I think Jacob Elordi might honestly be too tall, you know? He's like beyond sample size on the other way.

• 1:03:45Sean Fennessey?

  I'm stunned to hear you say that.

• 1:03:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Not for me, but in terms of, in terms of the, listen, men are finally learning what it is to, to get dressed and the sample sizes are made for one exact body type that is like basically yours, which is really annoying. And, um.

• 1:04:01Speaker 04

  It's definitely not fun.

• 1:04:02Amanda Dobbins?

  If you're not sample size, they, they don't know, it takes a lot of extra effort.

• 1:04:06Sean Fennessey?

  We were joking last night that I can usually pull off off the rack and in a way that is very satisfying for me.

• 1:04:10Speaker 04

  I, I, and we hate you.

• 1:04:12Amanda Dobbins?

  I had, I impulse ordered so much this morning from the RealReal because of, because you've changed your plans for Oscar night. It's okay.

• 1:04:18Sean Fennessey?

  Well, we'll see. It's not, no guarantee that I'll be able to do that in time. No, no spoilers for our, our outfits for an Oscar night.

• 1:04:26Speaker 04

  I cannot wait. Thank you. I was already gonna watch, but you sold the ticket.

• 1:04:30Sean Fennessey?

  Quickly, precursors for best actor, Wagner Moore Globe, Shalhoub Globe, Timothy Chalamet, Critics' Choice, Robert Armaio, BAFTA, Michael B. Jordan, SAG. Just simply put, your prediction for the winner of Best Actor at the Oscars. Amanda and I will hold ours till next week when we predict.

• 1:04:47Speaker 04

  Oh my God, Michael B. Jordan's gonna win an Oscar. Oh, that's so nice. That's great.

• 1:04:53Sean Fennessey?

  I really think that could happen, and that is just crazy.

• 1:04:55Speaker 04

  I think Michael B. Jordan's gonna win an Oscar.

• 1:04:59Sean Fennessey?

  He would be, he would be literally my fifth pick three months ago. I'd be like, he's in fifth place.

• 1:05:04Speaker 04

  If I'm voting, I don't know if I'm, I mean, although, you know, I've spent this time with this performance now, and I'm just like, yeah, but listen, come on, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. No, but this, I, I mean, listen, I am saying that there's a world in which he'd win, in which he would win, and I am gonna burst into tears, because also, young black men, right? I mean, just like, there's a lot of history that comes into these things at some point, and you just really, my, my historiometer starts going a little bit nuts, and I'm thinking like, how old was Forest Whitaker when he won? How old was Jamie Foxx when he won? How old was when Denzel? I mean, they're all around the same age.

• 1:05:44Sean Fennessey?

  Denzel's the rare, he got one very early for glory.

• 1:05:47Speaker 04

  I'm sorry, I was thinking about Malcolm X, sorry. For Best Actor, for Best Actor, for Best Actor. Just, just those two guys, and Paudier, Sidney Paudier would have been thirty. I mean, they're all like thirty-five. I mean, Jordan is what, thirty-five?

• 1:06:03Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, they're all, Jamie Foxx, Forest Whitaker, Sidney Paudier.

• 1:06:09Sean Fennessey?

  I think Forest Whitaker was older. I think he was in his like, mid-forties when he won for Last King of Scotland.

• 1:06:14Speaker 04

  Okay, we can look that up. That's probably true. That's probably true.

• 1:06:17Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, and Mahershala for Supporting, he was in his forties, right?

• 1:06:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, but Supporting, that's, anybody can win. But, but it's more like Best Actor, because what, I mean, if, if Michael B. Jordan wins, what are we at, four?

• 1:06:29Sean Fennessey?

  Four black actors who've won Best Actor.

• 1:06:31Speaker 04

  Four black men who've won Best Actor. Um, so that's.

• 1:06:36Sean Fennessey?

  It could happen, it could not happen.

• 1:06:37Speaker 04

  It's five.

• 1:06:38Sean Fennessey?

  I'll tell you what.

• 1:06:38Speaker 04

  Four winners, right?

• 1:06:39Sean Fennessey?

  I'm also not writing off Timothy Chalamet.

• 1:06:41Speaker 04

  No, but well, can you talk to me about the resist? Is there resistance to this movie?

• 1:06:46Sean Fennessey?

  I don't think, well, you know, one, the movie.

• 1:06:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Not in this seat.

• 1:06:50Sean Fennessey?

  Um, we both love the movie. You like the movie too.

• 1:06:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, I really, really love it.

• 1:06:53Sean Fennessey?

  Um, I think one, the movie had a smear campaign against it. Obviously, there was a dramatic story written about the Saftees that I think has definitely influenced the campaign somewhat. I think also more specifically in this case.

• 1:07:06Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:07Sean Fennessey?

  But more specifically, I think it's the whiplash of the Timothy Chalamet campaigning for the movie's box office success.

• 1:07:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:07:15Sean Fennessey?

  And the swaggery style that he was bringing to that campaign to the pivot to, I'm awards campaigning and now.

• 1:07:23Speaker 04

  You can say it, Sean. I was black over here and I'm white over here. And I, I apologize, everybody, but now.

• 1:07:31Sean Fennessey?

  If I were him, I would not have done anything different. He made that movie a massive success. We were talking about it last night.

• 1:07:37Speaker 04

  No, I mean.

• 1:07:37Sean Fennessey?

  This was the final step in him elevating himself over basically all of his peers as the standalone movie star of his generation. And it worked for the movie. It, he may be paying the price for it right now.

• 1:07:49Amanda Dobbins?

  There is also just a little bit of the, I don't like this character. I don't endorse this.

• 1:07:55Speaker 04

  Which is very strong.

• 1:07:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Like actions and how those things overlap and then how someone walks out of a movie and what their review is. And I think, you know, we three, well, I, I won't speak for you. I, I don't endorse many of this person's actions, but I'm also taken in by him, you know, like.

• 1:08:15Speaker 04

  Oh, Timothy Chalamet.

• 1:08:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah. Well, no, Marty, the character.

• 1:08:17Speaker 04

  Oh, oh, oh, no, he's an asshole.

• 1:08:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, of course he's an asshole.

• 1:08:21Speaker 04

  There's no, that's, I mean, I don't know. Also, I'm, I'm breathing air.

• 1:08:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:25Speaker 04

  Like, I feel like.

• 1:08:26Amanda Dobbins?

  But there are many people who walked out of that movie and I, and I found younger viewers who are like, yeah, no, like.

• 1:08:31Speaker 04

  I've met a lot of young people who are like, I don't, I don't like him.

• 1:08:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. And so I think that sometimes when people are voting the same way they vote for Coda because like that made me feel something. Maybe this, I don't know. I can't really deal with it.

• 1:08:45Speaker 04

  But isn't this, isn't this.

• 1:08:47Amanda Dobbins?

  I can deal with it.

• 1:08:48Speaker 04

  Like an aspect of the difference between the Academy in like 1994 and the Academy now? Which is like in 1994, Timothy Chalamet might not have even gotten nominated. Because the performance was so difficult. And, or the character is so difficult. The performance is great.

• 1:09:11Speaker 04

  Versus now where you've got, um, you know, in 94, the Academy would have been much more like American born. Versus now where like, you know, what did you say? It's 60, 40?

• 1:09:24Speaker 04

  Not American, American.

• 1:09:26Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, in the Academy? Yeah, it's in that range. Yeah.

• 1:09:29Speaker 04

  I just feel like other people's cinemas have a much higher tolerance for the, for the Marty, for the, for the Marty Mousers of the world. So I don't know. I just feel like everybody else is not, this is like Florida's Thursday.

• 1:09:43Sean Fennessey?

  I, that's what I was gonna say is the same case that you can make for Wagner Morra is the case you can make for Shalhoub. Which is like, this is a movie that the international voters are not gonna be like, oh, this isn't for me. You know, it's not, that being said, it is a very American story.

• 1:09:57Speaker 04

  Also, a Nora one last year. I don't know. I feel like, I feel like he's still likely to win, but there's something about, there was something about, I know that you're also, it's important to remember what you've already said, which is like, what is it? You said 1% overlap?

• 1:10:14Sean Fennessey?

  No, I don't know what the total number is, but I think it's less than 5% of SAG is, of Academy voting members.

• 1:10:20Speaker 04

  But I do, for whatever, to the extent that like whoever was aware of what happened last night and got to watch it and hear what happened in the room. Wouldn't you love, wouldn't you love a little bit of that?

• 1:10:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:35Sean Fennessey?

  I think that was a big moment for the race and voting is open until Friday.

• 1:10:38Speaker 04

  It just felt like, I mean, again, every time, I don't know what is going on with me and Michael B. Turner right now, but like, just like, he's making me cry. Like, I just feel like, and sometimes, you know, the other thing about him as an actor is, he's so recessive, right? There are, there are so many movies you watch him in and you're like, Come on, buddy.

• 1:11:01Sean Fennessey?

  Well, he.

• 1:11:01Speaker 04

  Yeah. Give it to me.

• 1:11:02Sean Fennessey?

  But as a star, though. As a star, he does remind me a little bit of Leo insofar as he's like, kinda out of the limelight, doesn't really do a lot, doesn't give a ton of interviews, kinda just like sticks to his projects and does his thing. He's not like a massive celebrity in the same way that somebody like Chalamet right now feels like a force of nature culturally.

• 1:11:23Speaker 04

  Right, right, right.

• 1:11:23Sean Fennessey?

  And there is a distinction there, and I wonder if maybe there's something considered like more honorable about that for MBJ.

• 1:11:30Speaker 04

  I also think like, there's, I think one thing that might be working against him here is he is still, pound for pound, a bigger star than Timothy Chalamet. You know what I mean? Like when it comes to.

• 1:11:42Sean Fennessey?

  He's been a part of more bigger movies, yes.

• 1:11:44Speaker 04

  Right. And some of those movies people went to because he was in. Yeah.

• 1:11:48Sean Fennessey?

  It's close. The Dune movies kinda leveled the playing field there.

• 1:11:51Speaker 04

  I'm not, I retract that statement. But I mean, he is at least inarguably a movie star, right?

• 1:11:57Sean Fennessey?

  Totally.

• 1:11:57Speaker 04

  And the thing about, the thing that was so exciting about Sinners was, you know, I mean, when Van and Bill and I talked about that show on the rewatchables, the question, the who won the movie question, like, hands down, who won the movie was Ryan Coogler. Yeah.

• 1:12:16Speaker 04

  The reason I went back to the performance was, I wanted to know what I had missed. I do the acting thing I do every year, where I like find a bunch of things I like about performances. I didn't, I didn't include him in it. And I just was like, I'm very curious to see what is, when, once he got nominated, I was like, okay, I really, I just wanna see what I missed. Not because the Academy was right, but just because I was so happy for him.

• 1:12:48Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:12:49Speaker 04

  And.

• 1:12:50Sean Fennessey?

  Well, there's something off the bat, which is that he's playing twins, and so that is, he's giving two performances.

• 1:12:55Speaker 04

  But there's the accent.

• 1:12:57Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:12:58Speaker 04

  The twins are, as it turns out, not as.

• 1:13:04Speaker 04

  Mutually discernible as maybe a different actor would have made them.

• 1:13:08Sean Fennessey?

  I agree, but I do think he is putting a character in both of those men that you can tell.

• 1:13:12Speaker 04

  But what I was about to say is-

• 1:13:13Sean Fennessey?

  Vocal intonation, the posture, like, they're different.

• 1:13:16Speaker 04

  They are different, but it is so subtle, but it is so satisfying to leave that movie and be able to tell smoke from Stack because Michael B. Jordan figured out what the difference was between these two guys.

• 1:13:29Sean Fennessey?

  I agree, and I think a win like this kind of like pulls out that conversation. It lets you say like, okay, what is good about this performance? And then actually talk about it in a nuts and bolts way that I think is interesting.

• 1:13:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:13:38Sean Fennessey?

  And, and we'll see what happens if you're going with MBJ. Male actor in a supporting role, Sean Penn won again. He did not show up again.

• 1:13:47Speaker 04

  Where did this come from?

• 1:13:50Speaker 04

  It's Los Angeles.

• 1:13:51Sean Fennessey?

  I've been telling you. It's a weird town. Been telling you.

• 1:13:54Speaker 04

  I mean, of all the things you, where are your, I mean, look, this is a great performance. But let's just talk about that, like, I don't know, it just, it's like, ah. I mean, I, I agree with you. Of these five guys.

• 1:14:11Sean Fennessey?

  So your least favorite?

• 1:14:12Speaker 04

  No, no. I'm sitting here being like, actually, you know what? But, I mean-

• 1:14:18Sean Fennessey?

  At SAG, it was Benicio, Jacob Elordi, Miles Katon, and Delroy Lindo were the other nominees. Sean Penn won at BAFTA, everybody was like, oh, my goodness. And now this feels like confirmation that he's gonna win. However.

• 1:14:29Speaker 04

  Stellan Skarsgård. Yeah, he's in the mix. There's no way he's losing this Oscar.

• 1:14:34Sean Fennessey?

  I do think that Sean Penn is basically trying to throw it.

• 1:14:38Sean Fennessey?

  He already has two. He is not going to any events that he doesn't have to. He did not give a speech last night. He did not give a speech at BAFTA.

• 1:14:45Speaker 04

  Was he there last night?

• 1:14:46Sean Fennessey?

  He was not there.

• 1:14:47Speaker 04

  He was not there. Right. He was at the Golden Globes.

• 1:14:49Sean Fennessey?

  He was the only winner who did not give a speech. He was at the Golden Globes, but he didn't, didn't win. And-

• 1:14:56Sean Fennessey?

  This has been a weird race too. Skarsgård won the Globe and the LA Film Critics Circle. It lordy won the CCAs, but NCA won the New York Film Critics Circle. Delroy Lindo hasn't won anything, but he did give the last speech of the night, last night, for Best on

• 1:15:08Speaker 04

  I was just about to say, yeah.

• 1:15:09Sean Fennessey?

  And he's nominated and he's the kind of person who wins Surprise Academy Awards.

• 1:15:15Speaker 04

  Well, can I tell you my crazy?

• 1:15:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, but sit forward.

• 1:15:19Speaker 04

  Sorry.

• 1:15:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Lean in.

• 1:15:20Speaker 04

  I'm usually gonna, I usually have an Oscar dream.

• 1:15:22Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:15:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:15:24Sean Fennessey?

  Like a dream the night before or one that you hold on to for months?

• 1:15:27Speaker 04

  Couple nights before the Oscars, I have a dream. They never come true.

• 1:15:30Sean Fennessey?

  Hmm.

• 1:15:31Speaker 04

  Um, I had a dream that Sean Penn was gonna get nominated for something that he didn't get nominated for. Like, this is like a weird, it was like, I'm not rooting for Sean Penn. It's just it was a dream. Um, oh, Carlito's Way. This is like when I was, I had a Carlito's Way dream and it didn't happen.

• 1:15:45Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:46Speaker 04

  Um, I think there's a world. Cause you, I mean, it's worth remembering that Sinners has, is it, how many, 14?

• 1:15:58Sean Fennessey?

  16.

• 1:15:58Speaker 04

  16 nominations?

• 1:16:01Speaker 04

  I just think there's a world where like, there's a world where it kinda wins many of them.

• 1:16:08Sean Fennessey?

  We said we're gonna know probably pretty early in the night if there's a weird Sinners wins nine Academy Awards thing happening because Wondemisaka could win.

• 1:16:20Speaker 04

  Yep, yep.

• 1:16:20Sean Fennessey?

  And we'll get

• 1:16:21Speaker 04

  And that could still happen. It could still happen.

• 1:16:23Sean Fennessey?

  And, and, and if Delroy Lindo wins, then I'm gonna be like.

• 1:16:26Amanda Dobbins?

  This is, this is happening?

• 1:16:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:16:28Sean Fennessey?

  That, that will show an incredible sign of strength. I, I, I don't think that's gonna happen.

• 1:16:32Speaker 04

  I don't, I don't think.

• 1:16:34Sean Fennessey?

  I think Sean Penn and Skarsgård are stronger in this race significantly personally.

• 1:16:37Speaker 04

  Being prepared for the possibility that everything just gets thrown out the window.

• 1:16:41Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Um.

• 1:16:43Speaker 04

  With this movie.

• 1:16:44Sean Fennessey?

  It's really funny that he just didn't go. Like presumably just because he was like, I don't want to.

• 1:16:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:16:49Sean Fennessey?

  Also, he'd never won SAG before, which is interesting. He's a two-time Academy Award winner who'd never won a SAG, a SAG prize. Um, let's talk about female actor in a supporting role. Amy Madigan won.

• 1:16:59Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:16:59Sean Fennessey?

  And if Michael B. Jordan had not won, she easily would have given the best speech of the night. She was incredibly charming.

• 1:17:05Speaker 04

  It was a wonderful speech.

• 1:17:06Amanda Dobbins?

  She, she ran up to the stage doing the, a weapons kid's arms.

• 1:17:10Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:17:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Which is, so it's amazing.

• 1:17:13Sean Fennessey?

  She was the one who remarked upon the, the statuette and the way that its anatomy and its relationship to Ken, um, when she was playing with her Barbies as a kid. She's just bringing a lot of like, Chicago gal born in the 20th century, you know, like really talked a lot about her union and, and what SAG means to her and her being a union person. And, uh, she's a, she's very similar to Delroy Lindo, you know?

• 1:17:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:17:36Sean Fennessey?

  Just like in the fabric of Hollywood.

• 1:17:37Speaker 04

  A person who's been around for a long time and has never won anything.

• 1:17:40Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. And everybody likes her and everybody thinks she's good at what she does.

• 1:17:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:17:43Sean Fennessey?

  And she's been given a very showy part and a villain. And villains win a lot in supporting categories. And she's a really great villain. That's a very memorable character.

• 1:17:51Speaker 04

  I just, you know, part of me is just mad that Austin Abrams.

• 1:17:56Sean Fennessey?

  We'll get to him.

• 1:17:57Speaker 04

  Has been completely been overshadowed by how good she is in this movie.

• 1:18:00Sean Fennessey?

  He will be the star of Zach Greger's next movie, the Resident Evil movie, Austin Abrams.

• 1:18:04Speaker 04

  Oh, really?

• 1:18:04Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:05Speaker 04

  Okay. Um, anyway, I, uh, I, I'm happy for her. I think this race is still a crap shoot.

• 1:18:13Amanda Dobbins?

  I do as well. I think she's too, and I think she's too American. I don't think the international voters care about Field of Dreams.

• 1:18:19Speaker 04

  Well, you know, here's a-

• 1:18:20Amanda Dobbins?

  I really don't. I like that's, because when you see her, don't you see her giving the speech at the PTA meeting? I still do.

• 1:18:27Speaker 04

  Oh, that's the funny thing that you think about. You know, I've been like keeping tra- oh, here's a great little-

• 1:18:31Sean Fennessey?

  Is it about Catcher in the Rye? What is it? What is the book that she's talking about that's being banned?

• 1:18:36Speaker 04

  I think it's, I think it's Catcher in the Rye.

• 1:18:37Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:39Speaker 04

  Those were the days.

• 1:18:40Amanda Dobbins?

  I know.

• 1:18:45Speaker 04

  I'm keeping track of people who slide in movies. Movie sliding.

• 1:18:49Sean Fennessey?

  What do you mean by that?

• 1:18:50Speaker 04

  Like, there's a moment where she comes out of that, that, that hearing in Field of Dreams or that, you know, that,

• 1:18:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:57Speaker 04

  That, I don't even know what's happening there.

• 1:18:59Sean Fennessey?

  It's like a stupid school board meeting.

• 1:19:01Speaker 04

  But I have a very clear memory of her, like, blasting out of that door and sliding across the hallway. I'm like, Amy Madigan, I am proud to say you've made the sliding in motion pictures list. So anybody who's got some sliding, all the obvious people have been accounted for, but just if you've got some, like, side door sliders, let me know.

• 1:19:18Sean Fennessey?

  That's a good one. Um, interesting data point. If Amy Madigan wins, she would become the ninth person to win Best Supporting Actress as her film's sole nomination. Can you think of anyone, Amanda's looking at the list, can you think of anyone for whom that applies? This goes back to 1941. Nine times this has happened.

• 1:19:39Speaker 04

  Mira Sorvino?

• 1:19:40Sean Fennessey?

  No.

• 1:19:41Speaker 04

  Was he nominated for screenplay?

• 1:19:42Sean Fennessey?

  I think screenplay was nominated, yes, for Mighty Aphrodite.

• 1:19:44Speaker 04

  This is for the winner, right?

• 1:19:45Sean Fennessey?

  For the winner.

• 1:19:47Speaker 04

  Oh, man, I love this question.

• 1:19:48Sean Fennessey?

  These are great games. I, this is my calling.

• 1:19:51Amanda Dobbins?

  You gotta stop putting it in the doc.

• 1:19:53Sean Fennessey?

  I'm sorry.

• 1:19:53Amanda Dobbins?

  So that I can play along.

• 1:19:54Sean Fennessey?

  I know, I know.

• 1:19:55Speaker 04

  Um, hold on.

• 1:19:56Sean Fennessey?

  I gave you the trial as Chicago 7-1. That was, that was a good trivia question.

• 1:20:03Sean Fennessey?

  You're gonna get 10 seconds here for the sake of podcasting.

• 1:20:05Speaker 04

  Oh, no, that's wrong, too.

• 1:20:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Hmm.

• 1:20:07Sean Fennessey?

  There's one very, very famous one in the last 30 years.

• 1:20:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Wait, did you just? You, he said Marisa Tomei, didn't he?

• 1:20:15Sean Fennessey?

  No, he did not.

• 1:20:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, he didn't? Oh, sorry.

• 1:20:17Speaker 04

  No, but that's a great one. Uh, I don't even know what I said, but it was wrong.

• 1:20:22Sean Fennessey?

  You said Mira Sorvino.

• 1:20:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, Mira Sorvino, okay, sorry.

• 1:20:25Sean Fennessey?

  A different Italian-American actress.

• 1:20:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I just apologize.

• 1:20:28Speaker 04

  Mira, Marisa Tomei is great. Uh, okay, give me a year.

• 1:20:31Sean Fennessey?

  Hmm, I'll give you a recent one, 2008.

• 1:20:36Amanda Dobbins?

  This one's funny.

• 1:20:37Sean Fennessey?

  Same filmmaker as Mighty Aphrodite.

• 1:20:42Speaker 04

  Penelope Cruz?

• 1:20:43Sean Fennessey?

  Correct.

• 1:20:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:44Speaker 04

  Huh. Okay.

• 1:20:44Sean Fennessey?

  Ricky Christina Barcelona.

• 1:20:46Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:20:46Sean Fennessey?

  In order in history. Mary Astor won in 41 for The Great Lie.

• 1:20:50Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:20:51Sean Fennessey?

  Claire Trevor won for Key Largo in 1948.

• 1:20:53Speaker 04

  That's the only nomination that Key Largo got.

• 1:20:56Sean Fennessey?

  That was my thought, too.

• 1:20:57Speaker 04

  That was how heavy the hitters were.

• 1:20:59Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. Margaret Rutherford won for the VIPs in 63, a Burton and Taylor joint.

• 1:21:05Speaker 04

  Very bad movie.

• 1:21:05Sean Fennessey?

  Goldie Hawn won for Cactus Flower.

• 1:21:08Speaker 04

  Oh, sure.

• 1:21:08Sean Fennessey?

  Gene Sacks's adaptation of Neil Simon's Cactus Flower. Linda Hunt won for The Year of Living Dangerously.

• 1:21:13Speaker 04

  Wait, that was the only nomination for the movie? Because I thought about her. Okay.

• 1:21:16Sean Fennessey?

  I did not know that that was the only nomination. Mersa Tome.

• 1:21:19Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:21:19Sean Fennessey?

  And Angelina Jolie for Girl Interrupted.

• 1:21:21Speaker 04

  Ooh.

• 1:21:22Sean Fennessey?

  And then Penelope Cruz, of course, in 2008. So, anyway, this doesn't happen that often. It's extremely unusual, but it has, it does have some precedent if she does win. Wouldn't Mimi Saku...

• 1:21:34Sean Fennessey?

  Still feel like that's in play. Also, Inga Ibsdottir-Lilias and your girl Rachel Kemp, aka Al Fanning, were not nominated at SAG. So, they are also in the mix here. This is a very... And Tiana Taylor was the prohibitive favorite for a couple of months.

• 1:21:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:47Speaker 04

  Wait, I'm sorry. Hold the phone. We had this, we just wasted all this time doing this speculating. We've not just said Tiana Taylor's probably gonna win?

• 1:21:56Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know. She lost BAFTA and she lost this, right?

• 1:21:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, but they don't understand what this is. They don't know.

• 1:22:02Sean Fennessey?

  But the Academy is more international.

• 1:22:05Speaker 04

  Look, energy is energy. You know, these BAFTA voters, they faked it. They, they left the racism in the show. They had a chance to take it out.

• 1:22:13Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:13Speaker 04

  Like, nah. Tiana, I think Tiana's good.

• 1:22:16Sean Fennessey?

  Who do you think is... Well, you know what? Don't spoil your...

• 1:22:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, I don't have to decide yet. I have 10 days or 9 days.

• 1:22:21Speaker 04

  I feel like Tiana Taylor is gonna win. And, I mean, if she loses to Amy Madigan, I'll be, I'll be very fine with that.

• 1:22:31Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. The last award that was not shown on the telecast for some godforsaken reason was Stunt Ensemble and Emotion Picture, which went to Mission Impossible: The Final Reckoning. A good win.

• 1:22:40Speaker 04

  Good win.

• 1:22:40Sean Fennessey?

  The stunt work in that movie is amazing.

• 1:22:42Speaker 04

  Who were the other nominees?

• 1:22:44Sean Fennessey?

  I don't remember. Before we move on from the Actor Awards, I wanted to talk about Harrison Ford.

• 1:22:50Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:22:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:51Sean Fennessey?

  Because Harrison Ford won the Lifetime Achievement Award last night. Harrison Ford, a man who is extremely important to the three of us. And...

• 1:22:59Amanda Dobbins?

  And American movies.

• 1:23:00Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:23:00Amanda Dobbins?

  And movies.

• 1:23:01Sean Fennessey?

  And America, to Wesley's point about what shapes America and how we see ourselves.

• 1:23:05Speaker 04

  I mean, think of it. Does this man have a career? The same career that gives him a lifetime achievement award? No. No, he does not.

• 1:23:15Sean Fennessey?

  I don't, you know, I, I think of him in a similar way to the way that I think of Michael B. Jordan. And that he was, he was always a very smart manager of the kinds of parts that he took.

• 1:23:27Speaker 04

  Harrison Ford is the much better analogy for Michael B. Jordan than what Harrison Ford is.

• 1:23:30Sean Fennessey?

  They're very similar to me, you know, where like Harrison Ford has limited range.

• 1:23:33Speaker 04

  It's Harrison Ford.

• 1:23:34Sean Fennessey?

  He's a great star. He's a very good actor and in the right hands can be a-

• 1:23:39Speaker 04

  Not a great line reader, but like with the right director can get, can read, Mike Nichols understood. Like Nichols was his cougar to me.

• 1:23:48Sean Fennessey?

  Wow, that's an interesting, I mean, you could make the case that George Lucas really understood Harrison Ford better than anybody and put him in a position to succeed more than anybody. But those are his best performances. I just said, I just saw the, the last trilogy of Star Wars movies with my daughter over the weekend. And the performances he's giving in The Force Awakens and in the God forsaken, The Rise of Skywalker are beautiful. And it's like, it's an actor who's really figured out his instrument. That's a word that you hear all the time from actors and he really has figured something out. Last night I was, I had tears in my eyes watching him give a speech. We, you and I, the three of us are like nattering through the whole show.

• 1:24:20Amanda Dobbins?

  We had to pause. It took-

• 1:24:21Sean Fennessey?

  We're pausing all the time.

• 1:24:22Amanda Dobbins?

  It took four hours to get through a two and a half hour show.

• 1:24:26Sean Fennessey?

  When Harrison Ford took the stage after Woody Harrelson introduced him, I was just locked in by his gravitas. I, I, what, what did you say?

• 1:24:34Speaker 04

  Shouts to Woody Harrelson's, I don't know what that was. It's wedding toast of an introduction.

• 1:24:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, well, you know, there was, they, they were paired in a way. You had the, you had the silliness and then Harrison Ford's surprisingly emotional speech.

• 1:24:50Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, he was in tears.

• 1:24:51Amanda Dobbins?

  And, and talking not just about his career and, but also like what acting can mean to the, to the world. And, and you know, he talked about like, it didn't, it didn't happen for me right away. And, um, yeah, I've appreciated the support of everyone in this room. It was really very lovely. A couple of great jokes, including the kicker, which was, this is encouraging.

• 1:25:14Sean Fennessey?

  He also said he was at the halfway point of his career.

• 1:25:17Amanda Dobbins?

  I, you know, so it's still like self-aware and that kind of, um, and gruff somehow, like in, in a traditional Harrison Ford way, while still being like way more sincere than I, you know, associate with his work generally. It was, it was lovely.

• 1:25:33Speaker 04

  And you know, the funny thing about it, he's got one of those, um,

• 1:25:38Speaker 04

  You know, there's a kind of pitcher, I mean, even with the pitch clock now, there's a kind of pitcher who's still kind of like.

• 1:25:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:46Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:25:47Sean Fennessey?

  The Steve Traxel, yeah, burning down the clock.

• 1:25:50Amanda Dobbins?

  He was on his own pace, yeah.

• 1:25:52Speaker 04

  Did I get a text?

• 1:25:52Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:25:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:53Sean Fennessey?

  It felt like sitting with your grandfather telling a long story, but in a nice way. I loved that.

• 1:25:58Speaker 04

  I love the silence, you know, there's, you know, there's these pauses where he's just kind of like.

• 1:26:05Amanda Dobbins?

  That was, that was a good Harrison Ford.

• 1:26:10Sean Fennessey?

  That's how he is as an actor though, too. You know, he really is, he's not a fast paced dialogue machine. He's somebody who cuts, who leans into silences.

• 1:26:19Speaker 04

  But this is the thing about him in the Star Wars movies, which is it's the opposite.

• 1:26:23Sean Fennessey?

  It is.

• 1:26:23Speaker 04

  Right? Like, he understands that he's also in a Howard Hawks movie.

• 1:26:27Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:27Speaker 04

  Right?

• 1:26:28Sean Fennessey?

  That's true.

• 1:26:28Speaker 04

  And the thing that's exciting about the, the transition tempo, I would love to see if anybody wanted to make a movie anymore about things like this. Like, give Michael B. Jordan one of those rat-a-tat-tat scripts.

• 1:26:42Sean Fennessey?

  Hmm.

• 1:26:42Speaker 04

  And see if he can do it.

• 1:26:43Sean Fennessey?

  Well, he's making the Thomas Crown affair right now, which is.

• 1:26:46Speaker 04

  That's not rat-a-tat-tat. That's like unbutton another button, please.

• 1:26:50Sean Fennessey?

  It could be.

• 1:26:51Amanda Dobbins?

  But I, I enjoy that style of film.

• 1:26:54Speaker 04

  Who's the lady in that movie, by the way?

• 1:26:57Sean Fennessey?

  It, it was going to be.

• 1:27:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Taylor Russell?

• 1:27:02Sean Fennessey?

  Taylor Russell.

• 1:27:03Amanda Dobbins?

  And now is it Adria Arhona?

• 1:27:04Sean Fennessey?

  And Adria Arhona is the, is the lead.

• 1:27:07Speaker 04

  Who's that?

• 1:27:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Very, very attractive young.

• 1:27:14Amanda Dobbins?

  No, she's, you know who she is.

• 1:27:16Speaker 04

  Oh, her, yeah.

• 1:27:17Sean Fennessey?

  She was in Hitman.

• 1:27:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:27:18Speaker 04

  All right, I can see that. I can, I can see that.

• 1:27:21Sean Fennessey?

  She has a lot of strong qualities.

• 1:27:22Amanda Dobbins?

  She does.

• 1:27:23Speaker 04

  She does. I, I can definitely, I, I buy that. I buy that. Okay. Uh, yeah, Harrison Ford. We don't get Harrison Ford under this.

• 1:27:32Amanda Dobbins?

  And he doesn't have an Oscar.

• 1:27:34Sean Fennessey?

  He has one Oscar nomination for Witness and that's it. And what the fuck?

• 1:27:39Speaker 04

  Well, I mean, okay, stop. What, what, what, what is missing from this? Because this is the thing about him and this is the thing about him and Michael B. Jordan. There's only one other Harrison Ford performance I can think of that probably should have been nominated, and I'm surprised that it wasn't.

• 1:27:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Which is?

• 1:27:57Speaker 04

  Because it was low hanging fruit. It was the, it was that, it was that.

• 1:28:02Sean Fennessey?

  Mosquito Coast?

• 1:28:03Speaker 04

  No, but there.

• 1:28:04Sean Fennessey?

  That's one that should have been nominated because it's very different for him, very different energy.

• 1:28:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, but it was too different.

• 1:28:09Sean Fennessey?

  That is a more fast talking part.

• 1:28:10Speaker 04

  About the line ratings in Mosquito Coast, too fast. A little too fast.

• 1:28:16Sean Fennessey?

  I think that's true to that character. That movie tells us a lot about where we are in the world right now.

• 1:28:19Speaker 04

  That was a hard year for a person like that to get in to the lineup.

• 1:28:22Sean Fennessey?

  It was, okay, so my case for this.

• 1:28:26Speaker 04

  For Mosquito Coast?

• 1:28:27Sean Fennessey?

  No, no, no. It is very simple that there was an opportunity to give him this win for Star Wars: The Force Awakens.

• 1:28:34Speaker 04

  This is what I'm saying. This is the only other. This was the only other performance I can think of.

• 1:28:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Excuse me, excuse me. They nominated every single actress in Working Girl. They can't find one supporting actor for your boy.

• 1:28:45Sean Fennessey?

  That's fair. That's also fair.

• 1:28:47Speaker 04

  It was, no, I think there was some category confusion about whether, where he went.

• 1:28:51Sean Fennessey?

  This, this, this to me doesn't totally make sense. And maybe it's because he doesn't want to campaign or whatever, but Stallone was nominated for Creed that year. And it's the same performance.

• 1:28:59Speaker 04

  I know.

• 1:28:59Sean Fennessey?

  And Ford is better, in my opinion.

• 1:29:01Speaker 04

  Ford is better, give it up.

• 1:29:02Sean Fennessey?

  It's, that is the thing.

• 1:29:03Speaker 04

  He's better.

• 1:29:03Sean Fennessey?

  And of course, Mark Rhys went on to win for Bridge of Spies, so it's moot. But if Harrison Ford was there and we looked at it and we were like, Harrison Ford is 74 years old? Are we really not going to give him an Academy Award before he dies? And now he's going to get some honorary award and it's going to be like whatever it is in the next five years.

• 1:29:19Speaker 04

  Doesn't count.

• 1:29:19Sean Fennessey?

  But it doesn't count. And you can, I think you can go through the list. I think Working Girl is a good case. You know?

• 1:29:24Speaker 04

  Working Girl, it's just tricky. He falls between the cracks of the two categories, I think.

• 1:29:29Sean Fennessey?

  If it were, if this, if it were 2026 and Blade Runner came out, he would have been nominated for Rick Deckard. That's, things are different now where movies like that get more respect than they got back then.

• 1:29:38Speaker 04

  I can see that.

• 1:29:39Sean Fennessey?

  Um, and The Fugitive.

• 1:29:40Speaker 04

  Oh, The Fugitive. Oh, I forgot about The Fugitive.

• 1:29:43Amanda Dobbins?

  That's crazy.

• 1:29:43Speaker 04

  All right, that's fine. But like.

• 1:29:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Tommy Lee Jones wins.

• 1:29:46Speaker 04

  No, no, no, no, 1993. Remember, like, who all, Daniel Day Lewis, Anthony Hopkins. Um.

• 1:29:53Sean Fennessey?

  This is a good poll from you. Keep going.

• 1:29:55Speaker 04

  This is like, uh, who else? Ninety-three. Um, Daniel Day-Lewis, Anthony Hopkins.

• 1:30:01Sean Fennessey?

  Very famous win here, the first of.

• 1:30:03Speaker 04

  Uh, Tom Hanks.

• 1:30:04Sean Fennessey?

  Tom Hanks for Philadelphia.

• 1:30:05Speaker 04

  Um.

• 1:30:06Amanda Dobbins?

  That's Schindler's List.

• 1:30:07Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:30:08Speaker 04

  Liam Neeson. And, oh.

• 1:30:14Sean Fennessey?

  L.

• 1:30:16Speaker 04

  L? It begins with an L?

• 1:30:18Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. This is a good nomination.

• 1:30:22Sean Fennessey?

  Laurence Fishburne. Let's love that.

• 1:30:24Speaker 04

  Oh, what's that got to do with it? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay.

• 1:30:26Sean Fennessey?

  Obviously, Tom Hanks wins. So, yeah, he didn't get in.

• 1:30:29Speaker 04

  I mean, that, I kinda get that.

• 1:30:30Sean Fennessey?

  It's a tough battle.

• 1:30:31Speaker 04

  I kinda get that.

• 1:30:32Sean Fennessey?

  It's a really tough battle.

• 1:30:33Speaker 04

  I understand.

• 1:30:33Sean Fennessey?

  You know who I would take out out of that group?

• 1:30:35Speaker 04

  Almost certainly six.

• 1:30:36Sean Fennessey?

  Daniel Day-Lewis. Yeah. In the name of the father, I like it.

• 1:30:39Speaker 04

  As my.

• 1:30:40Sean Fennessey?

  Irishman myself.

• 1:30:41Speaker 04

  My friend Charlie used to say, "In the name of the father."

• 1:30:44Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, okay. Shout out to Harrison Ford. You're the best. Well, let's take a quick break and then we're gonna do the Alternative Academy Awards. This episode is brought to you by Warby Parker. Buying glasses can be so tricky. I myself, even though I'm not wearing them right now, am a glasses wearer. I have had to buy glasses many times in the past. What style do you choose? Gosh, it sure seems expensive. This is why Warby Parker is great. Their virtual try-on is a total game changer. And when it comes to price, Warby Parker gives you quality and better-looking prescription eyewear at a fraction of the going price. Our listeners get 15% off plus free shipping when they buy two or more pairs of prescription glasses at warbyparker.com/bigpicture. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them our show sent you.

• 1:31:30Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, we're back. The Alternative Oscars. This is the sixth time that we've done this. Um, you were not here last year.

• 1:31:37Speaker 04

  I.

• 1:31:38Sean Fennessey?

  And that was just a painful.

• 1:31:39Speaker 04

  I was here.

• 1:31:40Sean Fennessey?

  You were. Thank you. Thank you for listening. Um, the rules, very quickly, there are not very many rules for this, this award show.

• 1:31:45Speaker 04

  Although you did get new when I, something I hadn't considered before when I put some stuff in there.

• 1:31:51Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, so.

• 1:31:52Speaker 04

  But you should say this, because I think it's worth saying.

• 1:31:54Sean Fennessey?

  No Oscar nominees are represented here. So if an actor, or a writer, or a director has been nominated for an Academy Award, they cannot be represented here. You're out. There are six nominees per category as per, I guess, the Critics' Choice Awards. I don't know. It just makes it easier to say more names and celebrate more stuff. These are eight categories that we believe the Academy Awards should add. And then some of your classical categories that we will talk through. We used to do nine. And one of those was best casting. And the Academy Awards added best casting. And we're so, thank you very much, Academy Awards. We also have best stunt in this award show.

• 1:32:36Sean Fennessey?

  And in two years, I think it's two years, the Academy will also add that. You do have a nomination for a new addition to our award slate. So we'll talk about that when we get there. A little surprise, a little Amanda surprise.

• 1:32:51Sean Fennessey?

  How are you guys feeling? Do you feel ready for this?

• 1:32:54Speaker 04

  I feel great.

• 1:32:54Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:54Speaker 04

  I feel great.

• 1:32:55Sean Fennessey?

  One thing that we talked about last night is I try to not have too many Oscar-represented films throughout this list. Now, in some cases, it's hard because you feel like something got really snubbed.

• 1:33:06Speaker 04

  I usually try to use this as a rectifier, but that's probably the wrong way to be thinking.

• 1:33:10Sean Fennessey?

  No, I think a good balance between these movies never had a chance at an Oscar, and these movies were close, but they didn't quite make it. And so we're gonna try to find a blend between the two. Did you enjoy this exercise this year, both of you guys?

• 1:33:23Speaker 04

  Well, things are definitely changing. And you can see it just in terms of like, once I got into the document, I was like, I don't have very little to add that isn't like fun or surprising. I got a couple in there, but like very little, because you guys covered it very well. But also, just the diminishment of the pool, right? It's clearly, it's not quite everybody who should have been nominated was nominated for an Academy Award. But it's not so far away from that, the way it once, if we did this, you know what a great exercise would have been? Or like can be done in the future?

• 1:34:05Speaker 04

  Let's just pretend it's like 1998. And... Then we play this game. What do you get with these categories?

• 1:34:14Sean Fennessey?

  Now, would we have said, here's what we think should have been nominated? Including nominated films?

• 1:34:19Speaker 04

  No, just like, like, let's just, let's just, what's not, what has not been nominated?

• 1:34:24Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:34:25Speaker 04

  And what, how would these categories fill out? And what would be in them, right?

• 1:34:29Sean Fennessey?

  I felt like there was just a lot more worthy contenders back then.

• 1:34:32Speaker 04

  You would need to double it to feel good about yourself. Like, what are we even doing here? But this is like, I don't know, I don't think anything's been left out. If we didn't, if, unless it was absolutely loathed by...

• 1:34:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Do you attribute that to the fact that the Oscars are getting closer to our taste? Or just that there are less good things?

• 1:34:52Speaker 04

  That's a great question. I think it's, it's the Polish, the, the, the, we're talking about a quantity problem. There's, there's less. There are also, I think that, you know, I have deduced, and I don't know, we've never talked about this, and I've never heard you guys, I don't, I've never caught you guys saying this or, or thinking it through. You might also accept it as almost axiomatic at this point. But, but Cannes is the most important film festival in the world right now.

• 1:35:25Sean Fennessey?

  It is.

• 1:35:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:35:26Speaker 04

  And so the alignment of that festival and the people who tend to, well, everybody goes, but in terms of like where that, where Cannes is, um, a lot of that energy has sort of been drawn into the Academy, right?

• 1:35:47Sean Fennessey?

  I agree.

• 1:35:48Speaker 04

  So it isn't, it is, the, the, sort of, the parameters of taste have changed for the voting body, or it's like, its expression of its taste has changed. But I also think that if we're talking about great movies, and I think now, more than ever, with the change in the Academy membership, like, great movie making is...

• 1:36:15Speaker 04

  Maybe the most important, like, A, like, it's much more important.

• 1:36:18Sean Fennessey?

  I know what you mean, and I think I agree with you.

• 1:36:20Speaker 04

  Than it used to be.

• 1:36:21Sean Fennessey?

  I think because the Hollywood slates have been hollowed out in terms of the kind of movies we historically define as Oscar movies.

• 1:36:28Speaker 04

  So there's not even an argument you can make to the contrary.

• 1:36:30Sean Fennessey?

  But, but we talked about this when Best Picture was announced, that it's a nice little potpourri of all the relevant premiere places, right? You had like, you had Begonia and Frankenstein at Venice, you had F1 and One Battle in Centers Nowhere, you had Sentimental Value and The Secret Agent at Cannes, you had Train Dreams at Sundance, you had Marty Supreme at the New York Film Festival, like, and you had Hamlet at Telly Ride. So you had this, like, international film festivals, American film festivals, blockbusters, awards movies that don't have a festival premiere. So they're still, this just feels like a very robust and coherent award slate to me this year.

• 1:37:12Sean Fennessey?

  And obviously, these two movies have emerged as behemoths, but it did make this exercise for me a little more challenging. In the past, I have found it to be much easier, even during COVID, to be like, nobody was ever thinking about this movie for the Oscars, but I think it's great.

• 1:37:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:37:27Sean Fennessey?

  And, you know, my top five for the year is like a lot of Oscar movies.

• 1:37:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, right.

• 1:37:31Sean Fennessey?

  And so that doesn't always happen.

• 1:37:32Speaker 04

  It is a little disorienting when you're kind of like, your taste is, for years and years and years and years, has been not opposed to the Academy, because, you know, the thing that you, that I love, that I have loved my whole life about the Academy Awards is, it's just another taste zone that, that, that speaks to and appeals to me. But now that I could make a 10 best list, and, you know, six of those movies go wind up as Best Picture nominees, Right. is really telling me that I have not changed. This voting body has changed.

• 1:38:06Sean Fennessey?

  I wonder, I-

• 1:38:07Speaker 04

  Or is it just that we're old?

• 1:38:09Sean Fennessey?

  This is like a, like, Amanda and I are on an elder millennial journey together. As, as we go into the middle of our life, where we, getting older, we are establishmentarian now. Like, we're like, one battle should win. And it's like, so you're rooting for like, the leading contender from a major studio?

• 1:38:27Speaker 04

  It feels yucky.

• 1:38:28Sean Fennessey?

  It's just weird.

• 1:38:29Speaker 04

  But that's not, that's not your change. That's an industrial concern, and the, like, the, how do I put this?

• 1:38:37Sean Fennessey?

  But how would that be different from like Schindler's List being the favorite in 1993?

• 1:38:40Speaker 04

  I mean, listen.

• 1:38:44Speaker 04

  With all due respect to our Lord and Savior, Steven Spielberg. If it's 1993.

• 1:38:50Amanda Dobbins?

  It's Jurassic Park. Yes, yes.

• 1:38:54Speaker 04

  Although, interestingly, Amanda.

• 1:38:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Dinosaurs.

• 1:38:57Speaker 04

  This is an intro- but think about the dichotomy that we're about to talk about.

• 1:39:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Right, yeah.

• 1:39:01Speaker 04

  Like, this man made, I mean, had, I mean, maybe the greatest year any director, any American director has ever had in 1993. But if I'm making my list, those five Best Picture nominees, maybe one of them is on my 10 Best List?

• 1:39:20Sean Fennessey?

  That's a good exercise that we don't have time for.

• 1:39:22Speaker 04

  You know what I mean? Like, I do think that I... It's just different now. There's no world in which I'm not putting One Battle After Another, or Sinners, or Sentimental Value, or Marty Supreme.

• 1:39:37Sean Fennessey?

  I'm with you, I feel the same way.

• 1:39:38Speaker 04

  Or Secret Agent.

• 1:39:38Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:39Speaker 04

  Do you know what I mean? Like, there's-

• 1:39:40Sean Fennessey?

  Six of my top seven favorite movies of the year are nominated for Best Picture. That's fucking weird.

• 1:39:43Speaker 04

  It's just not, it, it, it just means that they're, the, like-

• 1:39:47Sean Fennessey?

  No, five of my top seven. Phew, I'm not that much of a normie.

• 1:39:52Speaker 04

  I just think that the, that the, the pool has changed. The studios are much more interested in having just one thing to take to the Academy Awards, as opposed to figuring out which of our, which of our little girls is gonna, gonna go to the prom, right? I mean, I think that that's what happened to Weapons in a weird way.

• 1:40:15Sean Fennessey?

  How was it?

• 1:40:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Great.

• 1:40:16Sean Fennessey?

  You go both years?

• 1:40:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Three years. I went as a sophomore as well. What's up, Jim Hobart? I know you're watching.

• 1:40:21Sean Fennessey?

  Wow, that's huge.

• 1:40:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, yeah.

• 1:40:22Speaker 04

  Jim Hobart is really watching?

• 1:40:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, he was like my best, my best friend. We're still in touch. Yeah. And so he took me when I was a, yeah, a sophomore.

• 1:40:29Sean Fennessey?

  Good to meet you. Lovely man. I think they meet him at your wedding.

• 1:40:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that nice?

• 1:40:34Speaker 04

  Hi, Jim.

• 1:40:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:35Speaker 04

  That's nice.

• 1:40:38Speaker 04

  I, I just don't, I think that things are different. And I'll have to really think about how to articulate what I feel is a real difference. But I definitely think you saw it last year, where every single one of those movies- Would have been a different kind of movie, including a Nora, which would never have gotten anywhere near the the Best Picture Oscar, but would have been like in a five picture year, the the fifth movie.

• 1:41:06Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, we and we did talk about that a lot last year. We were like, this is Banana's Town, that this is what the Academy Awards is now. I like a Nora a lot, but I'm like, since when is this the best picture?

• 1:41:15Speaker 04

  Right, but that would have been even like, let's just sort of setting aside how anybody actually feels about these movies. That would have been the critics' favorite movie.

• 1:41:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Absolutely.

• 1:41:23Speaker 04

  And it would have gotten no Best Picture nomination.

• 1:41:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:41:26Speaker 04

  And everybody would have been like, see, the Academy sucks because all Tom Baker got was a Best Original Screenplay nomination.

• 1:41:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Even it winning the Palm and then and being like accepted at Cannes.

• 1:41:37Speaker 04

  And the people would be like, no, that's French. Yeah, good luck. Big in France.

• 1:41:41Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:41Speaker 04

  I mean, David Cronin, like, there's a number of directors who've really missed their chance with this, like, like, constriction.

• 1:41:48Sean Fennessey?

  They built up kind of cinephilia over years that is leading us to this.

• 1:41:52Speaker 04

  They've helped, right? Oh, that's interesting. David Cronenberg crawled so I could walk.

• 1:41:57Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, so Sean Baker could for sure, for people like that who were like, I'm cutting edge and I'm putting things that make you uncomfortable in front of you, but I also find containers to make it contemporarily enjoyable. One Battle and Sinners are the same thing, you know? A lot of sex in Sinners.

• 1:42:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:42:12Sean Fennessey?

  Lot of like obscure fascistic violence in one battle, you know, like.

• 1:42:17Speaker 04

  And sex.

• 1:42:18Sean Fennessey?

  And sex. Those are, those things are all, anyway. Let's, let's get into the categories. So we, we all chipped in on each category. The first category that we always talk about is Best First Feature. I strongly feel this should be at the Academy Awards.

• 1:42:32Speaker 04

  Really?

• 1:42:33Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. This, to me, could do so much more work than what the shorts do. I know that there are a lot of defenders of the shorts.

• 1:42:41Speaker 04

  I'm not here to get those emails. I don't have strong enough feelings about it.

• 1:42:45Sean Fennessey?

  We've never cared about the shorts.

• 1:42:46Amanda Dobbins?

  It should be a separate program. And I think first feature is a better way to bring in what the shorts are trying to do. And less easier to buy. I mean, the shorts are just like. I don't know. Did you find a fancy rich person or, you know, Netflix to, to program your, your short? It's silly.

• 1:43:05Speaker 04

  I, I understand that. I have no argument against it and, and it's very sound.

• 1:43:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Or the New Yorker. What the hell? Once again, what, guys, come on.

• 1:43:11Sean Fennessey?

  They're winning Oscars.

• 1:43:12Amanda Dobbins?

  You won, but enough. Okay?

• 1:43:14Speaker 04

  Wait, what? Wow. That is really?

• 1:43:17Amanda Dobbins?

  I just, every year.

• 1:43:19Sean Fennessey?

  You have to support our journalistic institutions, you know? Wesley works at the New York Times.

• 1:43:22Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I am a subscriber to both.

• 1:43:23Sean Fennessey?

  Also, you're a nominee at the Academy Awards?

• 1:43:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Paying subscriber. That's true. You guys do it. But it's like, it is a little bit of a joke now. I log on and there are like three New Yorker shorts nominated for every year.

• 1:43:36Speaker 04

  But I mean, think about, how about this? I mean, I'm not, I'm really truly neutral here. But like, what about the, the idea to your point about having this, you guys kind of just like seduced me into thinking about like a best first film Oscar.

• 1:43:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:51Speaker 04

  Is this, by the way, are people talking about doing this? Is this on the table?

• 1:43:53Sean Fennessey?

  No, but I'm gonna keep stamping my feet, just like I did for Cass.

• 1:43:56Amanda Dobbins?

  They do it at the DJs.

• 1:43:57Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:43:58Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:58Speaker 04

  Um, I think that there is a place you now know you can go if you're a New Yorker subscriber to see short filmmaking somewhat reliably. And I think that that is, there's some value in that.

• 1:44:13Sean Fennessey?

  I'm not opposed to that.

• 1:44:13Speaker 04

  I, I'm not.

• 1:44:14Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I will say the fact that these nominees are now available to watch on the New Yorker.

• 1:44:20Speaker 04

  Huge.

• 1:44:20Amanda Dobbins?

  The, the fact that there are some shorts that are not available in any way, I mean, you can go to the movie theater.

• 1:44:26Sean Fennessey?

  I agree. This is an issue.

• 1:44:27Amanda Dobbins?

  We, we have the internet.

• 1:44:28Sean Fennessey?

  This is a.

• 1:44:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Make things available.

• 1:44:30Sean Fennessey?

  This is a commercial award show.

• 1:44:31Speaker 04

  They do package them, you know, for years. I was reviewing the shorts.

• 1:44:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:44:36Speaker 04

  You could go to the theater and see them.

• 1:44:36Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, but it's true. Limited time. It's not in every city. It's a tricky thing.

• 1:44:40Speaker 04

  Yes, yes.

• 1:44:41Sean Fennessey?

  I'm not trying to denigrate shorts. I just think that this is a better representation of emerging filmmakers in the marketplace because they've made a feature.

• 1:44:48Speaker 04

  I like this. Also, thinking about the number of people who could have an Academy Award right now.

• 1:44:53Sean Fennessey?

  Well, yeah, it would, it would change.

• 1:44:55Speaker 04

  It's just so many, so many good people.

• 1:44:56Sean Fennessey?

  And that's one of the reasons why I think maybe they won't do it is because like maybe Chris Nolan wins for Memento so you don't feel as strongly that he needs to win for blah, blah, blah. So, anyway, let's just do this category. Here are the nominees.

• 1:45:07Amanda Dobbins?

  No, that presupposes, and at some point, we should do like a postmortem on the Oscar snubs.

• 1:45:14Speaker 04

  Following, would he have won for following?

• 1:45:16Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, following, not memento. Thank you. You're right. Following is.

• 1:45:19Amanda Dobbins?

  And how you and Katie Rich especially, like feel that people can only have one Oscar.

• 1:45:26Sean Fennessey?

  No.

• 1:45:27Amanda Dobbins?

  What?

• 1:45:28Sean Fennessey?

  That's not what I said.

• 1:45:29Amanda Dobbins?

  They were doing a lot of Oscar.

• 1:45:31Sean Fennessey?

  That's not what I said. What we were saying in those exercises that we were doing.

• 1:45:35Amanda Dobbins?

  It revealed a lot.

• 1:45:36Sean Fennessey?

  That, that clip taking off was the least surprising thing of all time.

• 1:45:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Wait, that was a thing? It never reached me.

• 1:45:42Sean Fennessey?

  Well, you can look at it afterwards, but the, the thing is, is that the Academy frequently thinks.

• 1:45:47Amanda Dobbins?

  On Instagram.

• 1:45:48Sean Fennessey?

  There's a rare class of people that get more than one. And a lot of times when someone gets one, they're like, you're good. You got one. Now, sometimes you get a Denzel or John Ford and they're like, Meryl Streep, Jack Nicholson, Sean Penn. We gotta keep giving you these things because you are in the elite class. But it's very rare. And so you use that as a way to say like, okay, we, if we could just get Pacino his Oscar in the seventies. We don't have to pretend like he's doing his best work in the nineties because he's not. But in the seventies, he was the greatest actor on earth.

• 1:46:17Speaker 04

  And it also hurts him in this phase of his career too, because.

• 1:46:21Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. Yeah. A second one would have been better for The Irishman than it would have been for Son of a Woman.

• 1:46:25Speaker 04

  A hundred percent.

• 1:46:26Sean Fennessey?

  Anyway.

• 1:46:26Speaker 04

  I believe that. I believe that. But I, but I mean, let, let him have as many Oscars.

• 1:46:31Amanda Dobbins?

  I agree.

• 1:46:31Sean Fennessey?

  Of course, I agree with that too.

• 1:46:34Speaker 04

  There are a lot of sound guys out there like, I'm coming for Sean.

• 1:46:37Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, like Dennis Mirren, the, the visual effects.

• 1:46:40Speaker 04

  What are we doing?

• 1:46:41Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, artists who has eight Academy Awards. Like some people win a lot and some people don't. Best first feature, Eva Victor for Sorry Baby, Carson Lund for Iphis, Harry Lighton for Pillion, Lawrence Lamont for One of Them Days, Alex Russell for Lurker, and Akonola Davies Jr. For My Father's Shadow.

• 1:46:59Sean Fennessey?

  Gut, gut reaction. Who deserves this prize?

• 1:47:02Speaker 04

  One of them days. I love that movie so much.

• 1:47:05Amanda Dobbins?

  I really did.

• 1:47:05Sean Fennessey?

  Did you add this?

• 1:47:07Speaker 04

  What an achievement. I, I go.

• 1:47:11Amanda Dobbins?

  No, I was just saying, there's, there, one of them days will be getting another award, or I will walk out of this room. So, uh.

• 1:47:18Sean Fennessey?

  In the next category?

• 1:47:19Speaker 04

  I'm gonna keep you right here.

• 1:47:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, thank you. Yeah, in the next category.

• 1:47:22Sean Fennessey?

  Well, then if you think that's the case, then I don't want to give it to.

• 1:47:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, so that's like, again, once again, our bias over here, just one Oscar for everybody.

• 1:47:29Sean Fennessey?

  I'm trying to spread the love.

• 1:47:30Amanda Dobbins?

  I agree. That is sort of the exercise of the alternative Oscars, AKA the big picks.

• 1:47:35Speaker 04

  Well, let's talk about Pillion then.

• 1:47:36Amanda Dobbins?

  I would like to talk about Pillion.

• 1:47:38Sean Fennessey?

  That is where I lean as well.

• 1:47:39Speaker 04

  Um, I don't, can I say something really controversial?

• 1:47:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:47:42Speaker 04

  You don't like it? Another Lord and Savior situation here. I don't like Sorry, Julia Roberts.

• 1:47:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Sorry, baby.

• 1:47:51Sean Fennessey?

  Really?

• 1:47:51Speaker 04

  It does not.

• 1:47:53Amanda Dobbins?

  What is it that doesn't? It's okay.

• 1:48:00Speaker 04

  Anytime that, uh, what is that actress's name? Naomi Aoki?

• 1:48:05Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:48:05Speaker 04

  When she's not there.

• 1:48:07Sean Fennessey?

  Naomi Aki.

• 1:48:08Speaker 04

  Naomi Aki. Like, when she's gone, I don't, nothing about this interests me.

• 1:48:14Sean Fennessey?

  Interesting.

• 1:48:14Speaker 04

  Oh, Lucas Hedges. When he's, like, I just did not like that character

• 1:48:22Speaker 04

  as written, directed, or acted.

• 1:48:25Sean Fennessey?

  It's been, it's been interesting because.

• 1:48:27Speaker 04

  I just didn't.

• 1:48:28Sean Fennessey?

  I had Ava on the show.

• 1:48:29Speaker 04

  I just didn't feel.

• 1:48:30Sean Fennessey?

  Seen Ava around a lot in the awards season, and they're different from that character. Obviously, that character is very personal to Eva Victor, and, and, and they've talked about that, but Eva Victor's very fun and very funny.

• 1:48:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:46Sean Fennessey?

  And the movie is very intense and very internal.

• 1:48:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:48:50Sean Fennessey?

  Um, and they're, we talked about the, the jury scene.

• 1:48:53Amanda Dobbins?

  I was gonna say, the jury scene is, is very emotional, but it is, it, it is funny too, in a, in a dark way.

• 1:49:00Sean Fennessey?

  It is.

• 1:49:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Um, and that to me is that I agree that Naomi Aki character and that, that friendship is a very beautiful thing that I have, like, had referenced a lot.

• 1:49:12Speaker 04

  I love the friendship, but when.

• 1:49:13Amanda Dobbins?

  And when Lucas Hedges sort of shows up, you're just like, oh, Lucas Hedges. It's really nice to see you.

• 1:49:18Sean Fennessey?

  It's been five years since we've seen you. Where you been?

• 1:49:19Speaker 04

  Favorite actor.

• 1:49:20Amanda Dobbins?

  It's wonderful. So it has a lot of delights, and I think about that, the jury scene, both, both the questionnaire, the. Filling out, which is really funny and like, but you know, funny and observant and I and then, and then the like, you know, that I can't really answer this question or blah, blah, blah. Or, you know, that whole speech is amazing.

• 1:49:41Sean Fennessey?

  It's very well performed. I think it's really, really well written. To me, this is like a feat of the screenplay ultimately. So that, and I think that's why Victor's been getting a lot of screenplay love.

• 1:49:49Amanda Dobbins?

  But let's talk about Pillion.

• 1:49:50Speaker 04

  Okay. I think this is a movie that should never have worked. And it is just a marvelous contraption. I just, I loved falling in love with this movie because I was really resistant to it.

• 1:50:08Speaker 04

  But

• 1:50:10Speaker 04

  just, I mean, just, it was one of those movies, the minute it ended, because it's got a nice sandwich structure.

• 1:50:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:18Speaker 04

  And the minute it ended, I instantly understood why everything that happened in the first five. It's rare to feel this. It's like when you read a book and the first, in the book you either loved or like, wanted to understand how it was built. You get to the last page and I, a lot of the times.

• 1:50:38Sean Fennessey?

  Go right back to the beginning.

• 1:50:39Speaker 04

  I'll go immediately back to the beginning and like, read the first 50 pages, like right like that. This was one of those movies where like, if I could have the time to go back and just watch it over again from the beginning, I would have. But I remember the first 10 minutes so clearly. And I understand that that's his family now, right? And there's a clear dynamic going on here in the glee club, barbershop, quartet, really. Anyway, this is such a well-written, well-directed, well-acted, truly emotionally surprising movie. And

• 1:51:15Speaker 04

  none of it should work.

• 1:51:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:17Sean Fennessey?

  This would be my pick.

• 1:51:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Might as well.

• 1:51:19Speaker 04

  Even the, the, the choreography of their bodies in those like sex scenes.

• 1:51:24Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:51:25Speaker 04

  Are just, how did they do that? How did they do it?

• 1:51:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Magical.

• 1:51:29Speaker 04

  It's just so, it's so, so good. Harry Melling. I just, I don't know. I don't know this guy. I mean, I know his face from the movies, obviously, from the Harry Potter movies, but like, what a, what a brave, tender.

• 1:51:44Speaker 04

  Fully understood thing to do, like he understands what he's doing. I mean, so does Skarsgård, but also the mother in this. I don't know, just every single thing about this movie, the way the father operates.

• 1:51:58Amanda Dobbins?

  When they're driving around at the end, I know, and that's, and this scene, the day off, the whole day off and the acting and the day off.

• 1:52:05Sean Fennessey?

  Well, Skarsgård just turning on the other switch.

• 1:52:08Amanda Dobbins?

  I know.

• 1:52:08Sean Fennessey?

  And then him just completely shifting his performance at the end of the movie is.

• 1:52:12Amanda Dobbins?

  The women sitting on the bench, you know, like every part.

• 1:52:15Speaker 04

  Oh, I love that.

• 1:52:15Amanda Dobbins?

  They were so great.

• 1:52:16Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. If you haven't seen Pillion, go see Pillion. It's a terrific movie.

• 1:52:19Speaker 04

  God, what a, what a surprise.

• 1:52:21Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, Pillion wins.

• 1:52:22Speaker 04

  Was that a Sundance movie?

• 1:52:23Sean Fennessey?

  It was Cannes.

• 1:52:25Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:52:26Sean Fennessey?

  Um, okay, breakthrough performance. This would be a little harder to add at the Academy Awards because what, who can break through and how?

• 1:52:33Amanda Dobbins?

  You know, we have best new artist.

• 1:52:34Speaker 04

  Oh, wait, so we.

• 1:52:35Sean Fennessey?

  Which is a joke of a category at the Grammys, but yes. Um, okay, the nominees for breakthrough performance are SZA, One of Them Days, Guillaume Marbec, Nouvelle Vague, Jack Quaid and Sophie Thatcher for Companion, Frank Delane for Urchin, Miriam Afshari from It Was Just an Accident, and Erin Kellyman for Eleanor the Great. Am I the only person who has seen Eleanor the Great?

• 1:52:57Speaker 04

  No, I saw it.

• 1:52:57Amanda Dobbins?

  I did not, I, I didn't circle back to that one.

• 1:53:00Speaker 04

  I didn't love it.

• 1:53:01Sean Fennessey?

  I didn't love it either, but I like this actress.

• 1:53:04Speaker 04

  That's a good choice.

• 1:53:04Sean Fennessey?

  And she is, she is the woman in, um, The Bone Temple, Amanda.

• 1:53:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, she's great.

• 1:53:09Sean Fennessey?

  She's really, really, I really have my eye on her. I think she's a really, really gifted, um, and I think Eleanor the Great is like real baggy and kind of a mess. Um, but I like what she did in that movie.

• 1:53:20Speaker 04

  That's inspiring.

• 1:53:21Sean Fennessey?

  Um, okay, so you already, you showed your hand on who you want to win. Is there, is there anything you want to say about any of these?

• 1:53:27Amanda Dobbins?

  One of them days.

• 1:53:28Sean Fennessey?

  To me, Jack Quaid is not a breakthrough, but I like them together.

• 1:53:30Amanda Dobbins?

  I like them together. I put it together because this is our awards show and we can nominate two people at once, or we can nominate one person for two performances. We are in charge.

• 1:53:38Sean Fennessey?

  That's true.

• 1:53:39Amanda Dobbins?

  This is our day.

• 1:53:39Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:53:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Um.

• 1:53:40Sean Fennessey?

  Thatcher got a lot of money on Thatcher, need that to work. She's gonna be in her private hell, need that to work.

• 1:53:45Amanda Dobbins?

  There's something about Nouvelle.

• 1:53:47Speaker 04

  Oh, he's back.

• 1:53:48Sean Fennessey?

  He's back. I can, I can.

• 1:53:50Speaker 04

  He's back.

• 1:53:51Amanda Dobbins?

  There's something about Nouvelle Vague, like cleaning up at the Cezars, the French Oscars.

• 1:53:56Sean Fennessey?

  So funny.

• 1:53:56Amanda Dobbins?

  That makes me feel better about the Oscars, the America, like everything.

• 1:54:03Sean Fennessey?

  It's a really good point.

• 1:54:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, it goes both ways.

• 1:54:05Sean Fennessey?

  No, you're so, that's so smart because we were talking about this last night.

• 1:54:09Amanda Dobbins?

  We like an imported, simplified, like, idealized version.

• 1:54:11Sean Fennessey?

  Linklater was the first non-French person to win Best Director at the Cezars.

• 1:54:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Like, alright, whatever, guys.

• 1:54:17Sean Fennessey?

  Gil Maradona had never acted before.

• 1:54:19Speaker 04

  Wait, but it's, it's.

• 1:54:20Sean Fennessey?

  How is that possible?

• 1:54:20Speaker 04

  This is what y'all get for the artist. How about that?

• 1:54:23Sean Fennessey?

  I agree.

• 1:54:23Speaker 04

  This is what y'all get.

• 1:54:24Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, we return the favor.

• 1:54:25Speaker 04

  The artist for revenge.

• 1:54:27Sean Fennessey?

  This is, this is a great category that should, that, that I would love to see someone figure out how to do well. SZA, I agree. Now, SZA, a little bit of cheating because she got 10 years to figure out how to be like a famous, interesting person on camera.

• 1:54:39Speaker 04

  I mean.

• 1:54:39Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't know.

• 1:54:40Speaker 04

  I don't know.

• 1:54:41Amanda Dobbins?

  You go to that movie, which has a delight.

• 1:54:43Sean Fennessey?

  She's so good.

• 1:54:43Amanda Dobbins?

  And you're just like, oh my god, it's SZA.

• 1:54:45Speaker 04

  She didn't even need to be this good.

• 1:54:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:47Speaker 04

  She didn't need to be this good.

• 1:54:48Amanda Dobbins?

  It's incredible.

• 1:54:49Speaker 04

  I mean.

• 1:54:49Sean Fennessey?

  One of the only successful original movies that came out in 2025.

• 1:54:53Speaker 04

  I mean, it's kind of shocking. You mean financially successful?

• 1:54:56Sean Fennessey?

  Financially successful, yeah.

• 1:54:57Speaker 04

  Um, I love this movie so much that it's like, I might burst into tears remembering how much I laughed at it. It is the funniest movie. It is also one of the great, I mean, just instantly one of the great friendship movies.

• 1:55:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:11Speaker 04

  One of the great friendship movies. I mean, these two people, Kiki Palmer plays the other friend. They, you just believe that they've never not known each other.

• 1:55:22Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:55:23Speaker 04

  Even if they just met the day before filming started, these two characters have been friends because these, you believe these people have been friends for as long as the movie says they've been friends because these two actors

• 1:55:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:55:36Speaker 04

  are selling the friendship. And SZA is so funny playing a character, right?

• 1:55:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:42Speaker 04

  She's not playing SZA.

• 1:55:43Sean Fennessey?

  She's a goofball in the movie.

• 1:55:44Speaker 04

  She's just playing a dingbat who sometimes her clock is right.

• 1:55:48Sean Fennessey?

  Yep, yep.

• 1:55:48Speaker 04

  You know? I don't know. I, I love that movie so much.

• 1:55:51Sean Fennessey?

  This is why this, this award show exists.

• 1:55:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Exactly.

• 1:55:54Sean Fennessey?

  Is to give SZA a prize.

• 1:55:55Speaker 04

  I mean, the, getting the sneakers off the, off the electricity pole. Like, being stuck with that hair like that, it's just.

• 1:56:04Sean Fennessey?

  I like the, the visit to the loan service.

• 1:56:06Amanda Dobbins?

  The loan service is the best.

• 1:56:08Sean Fennessey?

  That scene is so funny.

• 1:56:09Amanda Dobbins?

  I always put her in for cameo.

• 1:56:11Speaker 04

  That actor is so, I.

• 1:56:14Sean Fennessey?

  And also Cat, when he's outside telling them not to go in, that part, that movie is really funny.

• 1:56:20Speaker 04

  Okay, Williams, that's right. I forgot about Cat Williams.

• 1:56:23Sean Fennessey?

  It's really weird because I'm like, this movie was a hit and yet not enough people have seen it. I think it's on Netflix right now, actually. But it's really good. Okay.

• 1:56:31Speaker 04

  Somewhere.

• 1:56:32Sean Fennessey?

  Next category, best cameo.

• 1:56:35Sean Fennessey?

  I think this would be a fun award, actually, because there is an arc to this.

• 1:56:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:56:38Sean Fennessey?

  Showing up in a movie for five minutes or less and doing a good job. The nominees that we have here are Bad Bunny for Happy Gilmore 2, Connor O'Malley for Friendship, Sarah Michelle Gellar for I Know What You Did Last Summer, Bradley Cooper for Superman, Tony Todd for Final Destination: Bloodlines, and Tramell Tillman for Mission: Impossible: The Final Reckoning.

• 1:56:59Speaker 04

  Oof.

• 1:57:01Speaker 04

  I mean, this is-

• 1:57:01Sean Fennessey?

  Loaded category this year.

• 1:57:03Speaker 04

  Bradley Cooper plays Kal-El.

• 1:57:05Sean Fennessey?

  Jor-El.

• 1:57:06Speaker 04

  Jor-El, sorry, Jor-El, sorry. Uh, I kind of loved that.

• 1:57:11Sean Fennessey?

  I laughed really hard when I saw it.

• 1:57:13Speaker 04

  That made me funny because I think he also knows that he's the one major actor that we've got who has not been entirely sucked in.

• 1:57:25Sean Fennessey?

  Well, he'll have a Rocket Raccoon. He did it in the smartest way.

• 1:57:27Speaker 04

  I know, this is what I'm saying. Like, nobody thinks of him as being-

• 1:57:31Sean Fennessey?

  He got to enjoy all the fruits of that, but didn't have to be-

• 1:57:34Speaker 04

  In the tractor beam. I don't know, he's just so shrewd about what he chooses to do, and I feel like-

• 1:57:39Sean Fennessey?

  He's very funny when it comes to cameos. He's done a bunch of these over the years.

• 1:57:42Amanda Dobbins?

  He's like, he's forging into Matt Damon territory, where he's like, sure, part of the joke is that Bradley Cooper's in this.

• 1:57:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, but he doesn't have the baggage that Matt Damon gets to unpack every time he makes a cameo, right? So it's just a different-

• 1:57:54Sean Fennessey?

  But it puts him in the lineage of Brando in a very funny way. Where it's like, if it was good enough for Brando, I can do this.

• 1:57:59Speaker 04

  Exactly, exactly, exactly. That's what made me laugh when I saw it.

• 1:58:02Sean Fennessey?

  It's clever, I like it.

• 1:58:03Speaker 04

  The only thing I liked about that movie, pretty much, was, was that cameo.

• 1:58:09Sean Fennessey?

  Interesting.

• 1:58:09Speaker 04

  Um, I didn't dislike, I didn't hate the movie, I just didn't, whatever, whatever buoyancy I wanted to experience when I left the theater, I didn't-

• 1:58:19Sean Fennessey?

  It won't come up again here in the award shows.

• 1:58:21Speaker 04

  But I think, I think it's, I'd have gone to go with Tony Todd.

• 1:58:25Sean Fennessey?

  Well, he passed away, and so that would be an honorable thing to do. He was the glue of the Final Destination franchise. I might want to spread some love for Final Destination: Bloodlines elsewhere in this category, or in another category. Do you want to make a case for Tramell Tillman?

• 1:58:44Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, just...

• 1:58:44Speaker 04

  Oh, no.

• 1:58:45Amanda Dobbins?

  You don't like it? Oh, come on.

• 1:58:47Speaker 04

  They basically shoplifted his Severance performance, and you don't watch Severance, dude.

• 1:58:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, that's right. Yeah, I don't know what it is.

• 1:58:55Speaker 04

  So, it's that guy in a Mission Impossible movie.

• 1:58:59Sean Fennessey?

  He's not a little bit more like stank on it, though, in Mission Impossible.

• 1:59:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, fair, but still, it's the same.

• 1:59:04Amanda Dobbins?

  I will say, just being on a plane.

• 1:59:06Speaker 04

  I like Tramell Tillman, by the way. Don't get me wrong.

• 1:59:08Amanda Dobbins?

  And when he shows up on, like, on someone else's screen in this movie, and I'm just like, oh, that part. Like, that's the best part. That rock.

• 1:59:15Speaker 04

  He is magnetizing. I have seen people, I've seen him on people's airplane screens myself, and I'm like...

• 1:59:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, exactly. Like, there he is.

• 1:59:24Sean Fennessey?

  You must be out of your mind. That's just a great line reading, very memorable. Nobody made me laugh harder than Connor O'Malley in Friendship, where he was like, "I think we should go back to Afghanistan."

• 1:59:33Amanda Dobbins?

  I honestly...

• 1:59:34Sean Fennessey?

  That's good stuff.

• 1:59:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Died, so...

• 1:59:36Sean Fennessey?

  This is a tough one. Also, I gotta be honest, SMG, I really liked seeing her in the absolutely dreadful, "I know what you did last summer" reboot.

• 1:59:42Speaker 04

  I didn't see it.

• 1:59:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Sarah Pigeon is now Carolyn Bissett Kennedy. Sarah Pigeon plays in a important role in "I Know What You Did Last Summer," just so you know.

• 1:59:51Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, my god, that's who that is?

• 1:59:52Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. I texted you this. You gotta...

• 1:59:55Sean Fennessey?

  I gotta watch Love Story. Kaia was telling me she's been watching Love Story, too.

• 1:59:58Speaker 04

  Is everybody watching Love Story?

• 2:00:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. I'm not up to date, I guess.

• 2:00:01Sean Fennessey?

  I think Eileen and I need a show, so maybe that'll be our show. Just something to watch together at this juncture in time.

• 2:00:06Speaker 04

  Good luck. All right, I'm gonna start watching it. You've...

• 2:00:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 2:00:10Speaker 04

  Is Juliet watching it?

• 2:00:11Amanda Dobbins?

  No, but I'm telling her about it, and maybe she'll catch up if we ask her.

• 2:00:14Speaker 04

  So you guys are talking about it?

• 2:00:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I'm doing my, she does Grey's Anatomy reports, and I do...

• 2:00:19Speaker 04

  So we're three in?

• 2:00:20Amanda Dobbins?

  We might be five, because they released the first three at once. But it's Naomi Watts doing Jackie Kennedy.

• 2:00:26Speaker 04

  This is why you watch it.

• 2:00:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:29Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, who's winning? You want Tony Todd? Who do you want?

• 2:00:32Speaker 04

  I'm actually, I'm on the... We haven't even talked about Bad Bunny, who really did...

• 2:00:38Sean Fennessey?

  The funniest part of the movie.

• 2:00:39Speaker 04

  He stole that movie. The whole movie, it's his.

• 2:00:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:44Amanda Dobbins?

  I would be fine for that.

• 2:00:45Speaker 04

  I'm gonna say Bad Bunny.

• 2:00:46Amanda Dobbins?

  I nominated Bad Bunny as well.

• 2:00:47Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, Bad Bunny's the winner. What a year for Bad Bunny in 2026. Absolutely amazing. Uh, best kid performance 17 years and under. Now, I think it's, it's been acclaimed Jacoby Jupe in Hamlet is the, is, if this actually was at the Academy Awards, he would win in a walk.

• 2:01:08Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:01:09Sean Fennessey?

  He's not represented in our awards here today. I think maybe just because Hamlet is dominating.

• 2:01:14Speaker 04

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 2:01:15Sean Fennessey?

  Here are the nominees. Everett Blunk for The Plague, Carrie Christopher for Weapons, Jonah Ren Phillips for Bring Her Back, he was the little demon boy.

• 2:01:23Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 2:01:25Sean Fennessey?

  Alfie Williams for 28 Years Later, Lexi Venter for Don't Let's Go to the Dogs Tonight. I just saw this movie yesterday, really good performance.

• 2:01:32Speaker 04

  Did not see it.

• 2:01:33Sean Fennessey?

  And Nina Yeh for Left-Handed Girl.

• 2:01:37Sean Fennessey?

  There's a, I think there's a frontrunner in this category.

• 2:01:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Is it Alfie Williams?

• 2:01:41Sean Fennessey?

  No, I think it's Carrie Christopher.

• 2:01:43Speaker 04

  Oh, Carrie Christopher, that's, yeah.

• 2:01:45Sean Fennessey?

  He's the little boy in Weapons.

• 2:01:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 2:01:47Speaker 04

  I love him.

• 2:01:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, he is good.

• 2:01:48Speaker 04

  What a hard job. Um, it's very Haley Joel Osment without the training, so there's kind of like a, like an immediacy to what it is he's doing.

• 2:01:57Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, an unaffected performance.

• 2:01:58Speaker 04

  Right, right. And also, there's something about kids who have to perform fear, and I always wonder about the place they go to, to find being scared. And is it harder, is it easy? And I really, really.

• 2:02:17Amanda Dobbins?

  And do they understand?

• 2:02:18Speaker 04

  And do they, and what do they, and what do they know, right? But I think the thing that I love about this performance, though, is that it like, for, for the actor giving it, it's complete. Because, you know, it's all in the script, right? I've been being bullied for years by these kids, and now, all of a sudden, they're, they're gone. Um, like, did I do something? Did something happen? He's gotta be mad at the Julia Garner charac, like, there's just so many opportunities for...

• 2:02:47Sean Fennessey?

  Him having to work with Madigan, I think, is really also, you know, a lot of those table sequences are...

• 2:02:53Sean Fennessey?

  Tricky, cuz she's going very big and very scary.

• 2:02:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:02:56Sean Fennessey?

  I like it a lot. I mean, I think that this is a really good slate in this category this year. It's not always as robust as it is. I do think Alfie Williams is terrific in 28 Years Later. He's kind of... You don't like him?

• 2:03:07Speaker 04

  He's fine. I just didn't like the movie.

• 2:03:09Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, that's too bad. Did you see The Plague?

• 2:03:12Speaker 04

  Not yet.

• 2:03:13Sean Fennessey?

  And neither of you have seen The Plague? Can you roll with Carrie Christopher?

• 2:03:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, that's fine.

• 2:03:17Sean Fennessey?

  You wanna make any other case?

• 2:03:17Amanda Dobbins?

  No, that's good.

• 2:03:18Sean Fennessey?

  Best performance by an animal. There's only one nominee this year. Sorry, baby's gonna get that victory.

• 2:03:23Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 2:03:24Sean Fennessey?

  The cat, and sorry, baby.

• 2:03:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Cuz we've not nominated the dog from Superman. I say no.

• 2:03:30Sean Fennessey?

  Astro.

• 2:03:31Speaker 04

  The, the CGI dog?

• 2:03:33Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, no CGI dogs are eligible.

• 2:03:34Speaker 04

  Ugh.

• 2:03:35Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I agree. It's not ideal.

• 2:03:36Speaker 04

  Although I did, he was my, he was my second favorite part of the movie after, after Bradley Cooper showing up for 10 seconds. I, I will say, like, I did like the spirit of that movie in a lot of ways. It just didn't do anything remotely as interesting as it thought it was doing, just by being in a good mood.

• 2:03:53Sean Fennessey?

  I, hmm, that's a very incisive Wesley-ism. Um, I think what corn sweat and bras and hand have is good, and I wanna see more of it.

• 2:04:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, they have chemistry.

• 2:04:03Sean Fennessey?

  I think their chemistry is really good.

• 2:04:03Speaker 04

  Then give me a whole movie of that.

• 2:04:05Amanda Dobbins?

  I agree.

• 2:04:06Sean Fennessey?

  It kinda teases that movie and then it takes it away from you.

• 2:04:08Speaker 04

  Even that scene where they're like, having that ethics conversation in, in his living room, or hers, whoever's living room it is.

• 2:04:14Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:15Speaker 04

  Like, I wanted three more scenes of that.

• 2:04:18Sean Fennessey?

  It's very, it's very Sorkin.

• 2:04:19Speaker 04

  And a, and a polish on the writing, right? Because it, you just needed to keep experiencing it.

• 2:04:25Sean Fennessey?

  I think they're gonna do more of it. I think, and I think Holt is good too. I don't know, I like, I like Superman. I, I really liked it when it came out. It's, I kinda faded a little bit, and I guess Supergirl's coming out in like three months, which is crazy. Um.

• 2:04:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Good luck to them.

• 2:04:37Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, next category. Best stunts, action sequence. The nominees are the, the biplane finale of Mission Impossible: Final Reckoning. All the kids running around in weapons.

• 2:04:46Speaker 04

  Oh, actually.

• 2:04:47Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, the raid in Warfare. I don't know if you've seen, have you seen Warfare?

• 2:04:51Speaker 04

  No, I didn't see Warfare.

• 2:04:52Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, it's fucking amazing. The Causeway chase in 28 Years Later.

• 2:04:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Which we know Wesley's not voting for.

• 2:04:57Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. The whole lot of love, uh, NASCAR race at the opening of F1.

• 2:05:01Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 2:05:02Sean Fennessey?

  And, and very inspired choice, I assume by you.

• 2:05:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:05Sean Fennessey?

  The How It's Done intro in K-Pop Demon Hunters.

• 2:05:09Amanda Dobbins?

  When they're fighting on the plane and then they get to the concert.

• 2:05:11Speaker 04

  Oh, that's a good one. That's.

• 2:05:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Randomly in the car the other day, Zach was like, you know, it's really good is this scene. We were listening to it. He was like this scene in K-pop Demon Hunters. It's just like a stone cold opener.

• 2:05:25Sean Fennessey?

  Amazing.

• 2:05:25Amanda Dobbins?

  To a movie that sets the scene.

• 2:05:26Speaker 04

  I think we are rea- I mean, I at least missed a great piece of writing about K-pop Demon Hunters as a, as just as a movie. I came to it really, really late because I kind of misunderstood what was happening, but I was like, I'm a weekly chart watcher and I'm like, Golden has been number one for like, what? Oh, it's from that movie? So I watched it. I just couldn't believe how much fun it was. It's just so fun. Anyway, the biplane. This, what are we doing?

• 2:05:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I mean, it is the biplane.

• 2:05:58Sean Fennessey?

  It is the biplane.

• 2:05:58Amanda Dobbins?

  It was a, it was a good list.

• 2:06:00Speaker 04

  It's not even, like, it's not even close.

• 2:06:02Sean Fennessey?

  That movie is a mess, but that sequence is among the best things I've ever seen in a movie theater.

• 2:06:05Speaker 04

  I just can't even believe it.

• 2:06:06Amanda Dobbins?

  A thousand percent.

• 2:06:07Speaker 04

  They went for it. Nobody died. And Esai Morales versus Tom Cruise is a matchup I never thought I would. That is like, that is like the 34th ranked player versus number one.

• 2:06:19Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 2:06:20Speaker 04

  Do you know what I mean?

• 2:06:20Sean Fennessey?

  But he's doing great Bond villain. Esai Morales. He's really, he's very entertaining. I wish they figured that.

• 2:06:27Speaker 04

  Had more to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:06:28Sean Fennessey?

  You know?

• 2:06:29Amanda Dobbins?

  I wish AI weren't involved, but that's just me.

• 2:06:31Sean Fennessey?

  I know. They like retcon the motivation for that character too.

• 2:06:34Amanda Dobbins?

  The like AI is gonna take over the world plot of the last two movies. All the ASO was really stupid.

• 2:06:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. I didn't, I, all right, fine. I give you, well, no, but the first, the first half, you know, the first movie in this, in this, in this duplex. Every single thing in it to me is five stars.

• 2:06:57Sean Fennessey?

  See, I think it's good and not great. The first half of, of the last one or part seven.

• 2:07:02Speaker 04

  The whole movie of the, how do we talk about this?

• 2:07:05Amanda Dobbins?

  The one with the Rome chase. The, yeah, the, like, the Rome set piece, A plus.

• 2:07:10Speaker 04

  The train bit at the end.

• 2:07:11Sean Fennessey?

  I agree.

• 2:07:12Amanda Dobbins?

  That's true. Rebecca Ferguson dying in Venice. I, I visit that bridge every time I go.

• 2:07:16Sean Fennessey?

  It's hard for me to talk about this because the last one broke my heart so deeply.

• 2:07:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, I know. But anyway, the, the biplane sequence, there's no.

• 2:07:24Sean Fennessey?

  I agree.

• 2:07:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Vanessa Kirby's very good. The AI in it is still silly, but that's, that's all.

• 2:07:28Speaker 04

  No, I mean, Esai Morales versus Tom Cruise in the air. Just come on. What are we doing?

• 2:07:34Speaker 06

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• 2:08:19Sean Fennessey?

  This episode of The Big Picture is brought to you by Amazon Prime. What pairs with a good comedy? The cozy blanket arriving with Prime. What pairs with a nail-biting thriller? Snacks arriving with Prime. What pairs with big game on Prime Video? That new couch arriving with Prime. Whatever feeling you're after, Prime helps bring it to life with great entertainment and fast shipping that delivers what the moment calls for. From streaming to fast shipping, it's on Prime.

• 2:08:44Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, next category.

• 2:08:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 2:08:46Sean Fennessey?

  Best ending.

• 2:08:49Sean Fennessey?

  Eddington.

• 2:08:51Sean Fennessey?

  Final Destination: Bloodlines. I wanted to show a little love to It Ends, which was the film that you could rent on the Letterboxd video store. Alexander Ulam's debut. Begonia? Marty Supreme?

• 2:09:06Speaker 04

  Interesting.

• 2:09:06Amanda Dobbins?

  It wrecked a couple of people at this table.

• 2:09:08Speaker 04

  Which one?

• 2:09:10Amanda Dobbins?

  The one that we saw, not the...

• 2:09:13Speaker 04

  The Bassinet?

• 2:09:16Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:17Speaker 04

  Oh, okay, let's keep going.

• 2:09:18Amanda Dobbins?

  And all the other babies are crying.

• 2:09:20Speaker 04

  What's next?

• 2:09:21Sean Fennessey?

  And Hamid with nine question marks after it.

• 2:09:25Speaker 04

  Who? You put that in there?

• 2:09:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, here's the thing, I have not been supportive of the Hamid experience.

• 2:09:31Speaker 04

  Because if you put Hamid in there, I would throw The Secret Agent's ending in there, too.

• 2:09:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure, yeah, put it in.

• 2:09:35Sean Fennessey?

  I'm a little torn on that because these are very Oscar-y movies.

• 2:09:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:09:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, then we don't have to.

• 2:09:41Sean Fennessey?

  But they all have interesting endings that are all, like, pretty audacious, I would say.

• 2:09:45Speaker 04

  Can you talk to me? And I'm just gonna sit back about the Marty Supreme ending.

• 2:09:53Sean Fennessey?

  Um, it's one of the realest things I've ever seen.

• 2:09:55Amanda Dobbins?

  I've just honestly. Extremely emotional, like hit us.

• 2:10:01Sean Fennessey?

  With my experience as a new father, one to one.

• 2:10:05Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, it doesn't for me at all because an interesting thing, listening to Sean talk about like all the girl dad movies this year, because there's been a lot of dads and a lot of moms. We were talking about this last night and you said something. Um, one episode I'll never forget, which was just like, this is what happens. You just like get handed a baby out of nowhere, which is not what happened to me.

• 2:10:29Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:10:30Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, men don't experience it in the same way.

• 2:10:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. But there is something about the, the end of Marty Supreme for really for me is him winning the, the fake match and like, and the reaction on, on Shalhoub's face where I like, started crying the first time. And then it's everything else that happens in the scene beside him. It's the music cue. It's the way it's the sound.

• 2:10:56Speaker 04

  In the very final scene?

• 2:10:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, in the very final scene, he's at the hospital and he sees the baby and they, the tears for fear hits and you know, and you know, uh, the first line or I know the first line that's coming. Um, it's this, it's the sound. Every other baby in that nursery is wailing throughout that entire scene. And the nurse is just there being like, whatever this is, which I thought was so funny and the, and well observed and also telling about what's coming. Um, that baby, incredible baby acting. We should have given the award to the baby because that baby gives the Marty character like a what is wrong with you face?

• 2:11:35Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 2:11:36Amanda Dobbins?

  That is so.

• 2:11:37Sean Fennessey?

  Relatable to me as my, in my experience of early first moment fatherhood where the baby is just like, fuck man, like this is not comfortable. Like I just got out here, it's cold as shit. I need somebody to clean me off. I need to be fed immediately, like. It wasn't like the heavens opened and a light shone down and everything was going to be perfect from now on, but it was very clearly Marty realizing in 30 seconds that what's past this prologue and that everything going forward is completely different. And this three hour mania that we experienced is insignificant relative to what has happened in this exact moment. I thought like a great act of movie storytelling. I absolutely

• 2:12:18Amanda Dobbins?

  And I felt the same thing, even if I wasn't like, yeah, this is exactly.

• 2:12:22Sean Fennessey?

  I felt that way every time I've watched it.

• 2:12:25Amanda Dobbins?

  And just kind of, to me, he grows up. Like, that's what it is. To me, like, that is a coming of age movie and that's a person who's just like, and like, well, now I've grown up and like, whether I chose to and whether he will actually meet the moment, no idea. Probably not, based on what we know. But it's like, here you are, like, you know, this is your life.

• 2:12:47Speaker 04

  This is, okay.

• 2:12:48Sean Fennessey?

  You teed us up for something we were very prepared to speak about.

• 2:12:50Speaker 04

  I don't even, let's keep going. I'm gonna absorb that.

• 2:12:54Sean Fennessey?

  Who should win this? The reason I wanted to hold off on Tony Todd is because the funniest thing ever is Final Destination: Bloodlines ending with the logs and the train track explosion and all the characters dying, which was just like enormously satisfying, like a great callback to the best moment in the history of the franchise. Everyone dying at the end, which is how all these movies should work. To me, when we talk about like, oh, it ain't like it used to be, or we're talking about like Oscar movies, it's also this. It's also just like funny, mean spirited horror sequels.

• 2:13:22Speaker 04

  Just starting with the trailer, I'm like, okay, I'm watching this trailer through my, I'm watching it like this.

• 2:13:30Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, yes. With like the glass and the ice, all that.

• 2:13:34Speaker 04

  I'm not, to the extent that I'm nostalgic for that, it definitely tapped something for me. And I'm like, these movies stress me all the way out, but I miss that stress? And I would like to experience it a little bit again. And so, once you get like,

• 2:13:54Sean Fennessey?

  I'm, I'm, I'm.

• 2:13:54Amanda Dobbins?

  If you're taken, that's fine. That's, that's good.

• 2:13:57Sean Fennessey?

  I do think that the Eddington ending is extremely powerful as well.

• 2:13:59Amanda Dobbins?

  I've thought about it every single time, like every single day.

• 2:14:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:04Sean Fennessey?

  The very fat last shot of the movie. I mean, I think also the final moments of-

• 2:14:07Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. You know, is you-

• 2:14:10Sean Fennessey?

  You have an Eddington problem. We know this about you. Yeah. Or maybe it's our Eddington problem.

• 2:14:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:16Speaker 04

  Well, it is interesting that like the traction

• 2:14:21Speaker 04

  for or against it, I guess. I mean, I don't know. I feel like-

• 2:14:24Sean Fennessey?

  It's gone way for it in the last three months because of what the world looks like right now. There's a lot of like, actually, this movie was too soft.

• 2:14:29Speaker 04

  We miss, we miss something.

• 2:14:31Sean Fennessey?

  Well, it was just like, this movie is right.

• 2:14:34Speaker 04

  Okay. Wait, we were too soft in our enthusiasm for it or?

• 2:14:39Sean Fennessey?

  Um, I think, I think the early chatter on it was too soon. And then the late chatter on it was not soon enough.

• 2:14:47Speaker 04

  Hmm. Hmm. So he, he falls through a crack that Paul Thomas Anderson kinda just like-

• 2:14:54Sean Fennessey?

  One movie with like the most depressing nihilistic ending imaginable and one bad after another of like, hey, my daughter's gonna go out and take care of the world. You know, like two different energies.

• 2:15:05Speaker 04

  Keep the fight going. Yeah. Um. Okay. I, I think that like if we're sticking to the five things that are six things that we have to work with.

• 2:15:16Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:15:19Speaker 04

  Even listen, having, having listened to the case you just made for Marty Supreme, which I had never really heard expressed in such a spiritual and personal way.

• 2:15:30Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Many people are saying Amanda is spiritual.

• 2:15:34Speaker 04

  Begonia's the only winner here.

• 2:15:36Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, I absolutely, I love the code. The code is so, so good.

• 2:15:40Speaker 04

  Begonia's the only winner. Like if you, even if you-

• 2:15:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Also-

• 2:15:44Speaker 04

  Even if you hate this movie.

• 2:15:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:15:47Speaker 04

  And you aren't sure, cause I don't know, this is an interesting thing to talk about. Like,

• 2:15:53Speaker 04

  I didn't think she was the alien.

• 2:15:56Amanda Dobbins?

  I went back and forth the whole time, which was the fight.

• 2:15:58Speaker 04

  I just didn't think she wa- I just didn't believe it. And part of me feels like a dummy now.

• 2:16:04Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:16:05Speaker 04

  Because it's Emma Stone. She wasn't gonna take this part if she couldn't be the alien.

• 2:16:12Speaker 04

  Do you know what I mean?

• 2:16:12Sean Fennessey?

  It's a good point.

• 2:16:13Speaker 04

  I also just feel like-

• 2:16:14Sean Fennessey?

  It's a really good way of framing it.

• 2:16:15Amanda Dobbins?

  But the movie is so good at knowing that, at knowing that you think she is, or you're going back and forth, and is really playing with you and like gets you. It got me too. I didn't think she was, even when she went into the closet. I was like, what's going on?

• 2:16:30Speaker 04

  Amanda, Amanda, I still, even then, I was like, no, man, he's just crazy. And she's just like, she's, she's just playing along? And then-

• 2:16:42Amanda Dobbins?

  And then that scene-

• 2:16:43Speaker 04

  They're just up there being aliens together. It is the funny, I mean, my, I was bored for a lot of the movie. But, I mean, but, but bored in awe of her, right? Like, cause I mean, she really is-

• 2:16:58Sean Fennessey?

  She's a goat right now.

• 2:16:59Speaker 04

  It is, it is, I mean, I mean, I guess I've all, we've all, I mean, you watch Easy A and you know-

• 2:17:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:06Speaker 04

  That Emma Stone, you knew she was gonna be something, and the movie's changed and she's still got to be some version of it anyway. She is, from the standpoint of everything that matters to a great screen actor, the best actor I think we have-

• 2:17:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 2:17:25Speaker 04

  Right now.

• 2:17:25Sean Fennessey?

  Been on this corner for a minute. Totally agree with you. I just, I really like the material that she picks. I do think she needs a Yorgos break.

• 2:17:32Speaker 04

  She needs a break. She needs, cause now, because I think a lot of what has brought me to this feeling is this collaboration.

• 2:17:40Sean Fennessey?

  And it's been great. I've enjoyed it.

• 2:17:42Speaker 04

  Can I just say, would we be asking, would we be asking Michael B. to stop working with Coogler?

• 2:17:49Sean Fennessey?

  No, but I think that's because we know that Coogler is, MBJ is always at his best with Coogler, and Emma Stone can be at her best with other people, and we want to see that.

• 2:17:59Speaker 04

  Right. I do, but I also want to know if he can bring some of the Coogler with him if he did another Just Mercy, right?

• 2:18:08Sean Fennessey?

  We'll see. We're gonna find out.

• 2:18:10Amanda Dobbins?

  No more lawyers.

• 2:18:12Speaker 04

  That's fair. No, no, you got, no, no, you're right.

• 2:18:14Amanda Dobbins?

  You know what? Not even, and this is an important note-

• 2:18:16Sean Fennessey?

  Lawyer daughter.

• 2:18:17Amanda Dobbins?

  This is an important note for Thomas Crown Affair, um, as a student of Thomas Crown Affair.

• 2:18:22Speaker 04

  He's a thief.

• 2:18:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. No briefcases. He can be a lawyer, it's the briefcase. There was just, he does, it, he is going up the stairs in Just Mercy, and it's the way, he doesn't know what to do with the briefcase. That's all it is.

• 2:18:34Sean Fennessey?

  We gotta keep moving.

• 2:18:35Amanda Dobbins?

  That's all it is.

• 2:18:36Sean Fennessey?

  This is an important show. We gotta keep it on time. I feel like I've never felt closer to the people who manage ABC as I do right now.

• 2:18:45Sean Fennessey?

  So I'll give it to Begonia. I don't give a fuck.

• 2:18:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, cool.

• 2:18:47Sean Fennessey?

  Begonia wins the only prize Begonia's winning today. Amanda, why don't you please read for us the next prize?

• 2:18:52Amanda Dobbins?

  So I've added a new category called the most fun had by an actor this year. My nominees are Javier Bardem, F1, Rosamund Pike, Now You See Me, Now You Don't. Are you up on what's happening in that movie? Uh, she is playing a South African diamond princess with the full accent.

• 2:19:11Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 2:19:12Sean Fennessey?

  One of the best things that happened at the movies last year.

• 2:19:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. Uh, Robert Pattinson, Mickey 17.

• 2:19:17Speaker 04

  Oh, okay.

• 2:19:18Amanda Dobbins?

  And, and then you could also put Tramell Tillman in this category.

• 2:19:23Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, to me, it's Rosamund Pike in a walk.

• 2:19:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:26Speaker 04

  I'm gonna watch this tomorrow.

• 2:19:27Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, it's, it's.

• 2:19:28Amanda Dobbins?

  It's an incredible play in movie.

• 2:19:30Sean Fennessey?

  Pretty much stinks, but honestly, she's really having a blast.

• 2:19:33Speaker 04

  Okay. All right. That's good.

• 2:19:35Sean Fennessey?

  I didn't know she could be so camp.

• 2:19:37Speaker 04

  I mean, she kinda had that in Saltburn, right?

• 2:19:41Sean Fennessey?

  She did.

• 2:19:41Speaker 04

  The movie, the movie kinda let her try to go there.

• 2:19:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:46Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, that's like the best part of that movie to me, and she's really funny.

• 2:19:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:19:50Sean Fennessey?

  You would never guess that, like, watching her in an interview.

• 2:19:52Speaker 04

  I would watch an ab fab, like, parody movie with the two of them doing that.

• 2:20:00Sean Fennessey?

  This is a great category. Why don't you read the next category? It's also important to you.

• 2:20:04Amanda Dobbins?

  And it's, so this is, this is so mean. The Glenn Close Memorial It's Time Oscar, which, you know, we give to someone who's been trying so hard and just can't get there, and let's, let's put everyone out of their misery. Uh, I have suggested that we give this award to Noah Baubac.

• 2:20:21Speaker 04

  Oh, oh.

• 2:20:23Sean Fennessey?

  I would like him to really win an Oscar.

• 2:20:25Amanda Dobbins?

  I would too. I want him to win a real one, but I have to like, what are we doing?

• 2:20:29Speaker 04

  But we, listen. Oh, wait, although, all right, the Glenn, okay, okay, okay, okay. Glenn Close.

• 2:20:39Speaker 04

  I feel like we can't do this to Glenn, but it's just named after her. So it's like, whatever happens after that is what happens. I mean, what went on here?

• 2:20:51Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't know.

• 2:20:52Speaker 04

  Because I have never been so. I mean, he's made some embarrassing movies. Like, I think that White Noise.

• 2:21:01Sean Fennessey?

  I'm a defender.

• 2:21:02Amanda Dobbins?

  I liked it too.

• 2:21:03Sean Fennessey?

  I'm a hu- I'm a huge defender of Noah's. I think he's.

• 2:21:06Speaker 04

  Of everything?

• 2:21:07Sean Fennessey?

  There are some I like a lot more than others. There are some movies that I'm not crazy about.

• 2:21:11Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm like, he's incredibly important to me. Like, I am, I am a disciple. And I did not understand what was going on. And I like, I.

• 2:21:20Sean Fennessey?

  She was more down on it than I was.

• 2:21:22Amanda Dobbins?

  I went to Venice to be there for the premiere. Like, I was in the room. There was a great, I was almost stuck on that island because I love Noah Baumbach.

• 2:21:32Speaker 04

  I think what's hard for me about Jay Kelly is it's such an exposure of the underlying values or something.

• 2:21:45Speaker 04

  I feel like this is a man who has really gone out of his way to be a real cinematic weirdo. And the idea that the person who made, oh, my God, I'm never going to remember what that movie is called. What's the, what's the one where Greta Gerwig goes to the, to the, to the,

• 2:22:08Speaker 04

  to her sister or cousin or niece's house?

• 2:22:10Sean Fennessey?

  Mistress America.

• 2:22:11Speaker 04

  Oh. When they get to the house of Mistress America, it is, it is such a, such a Boonwellian train wreck.

• 2:22:20Sean Fennessey?

  The Connecticut house. Yeah, yeah.

• 2:22:22Speaker 04

  I think about the nerve of that sequence, of that passage of that movie all the time. It doesn't work, but there's a, there's a real attempt to like, not play by anybody's rules.

• 2:22:37Sean Fennessey?

  I love that movie.

• 2:22:38Speaker 04

  And this, to me, is such a betrayal or, or of those values, or it is the truth.

• 2:22:45Sean Fennessey?

  More successful.

• 2:22:47Speaker 04

  Or it wa- or it is the truth, right?

• 2:22:49Amanda Dobbins?

  I think it is. I, I think it's also, I,

• 2:22:53Amanda Dobbins?

  there is, there is a whimsy and like a two.

• 2:22:56Speaker 04

  In this?

• 2:22:57Amanda Dobbins?

  In Jay Kelly that I don't recognize that he co-wrote it with Emily Mortimer. Like, I understand, you know?

• 2:23:02Sean Fennessey?

  Pause an idea to you both. If you swapped out George Clooney for Tom Hanks, would it work?

• 2:23:08Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I don't.

• 2:23:10Speaker 04

  I mean, they'd still have to say the same words.

• 2:23:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:13Speaker 04

  And be on that same train and have that same dialogue with the daughter. It is definitely a Clooney problem, but.

• 2:23:20Sean Fennessey?

  And I know why they, I know why he wanted him. I know why he was a fit superficially.

• 2:23:24Amanda Dobbins?

  I know you love Sandler in this movie and I love Sandler as well and I'm happy to see him, but like, what is going on there?

• 2:23:30Speaker 04

  Wait, you like Sandler in this movie?

• 2:23:31Amanda Dobbins?

  No, I don't dislike him, but I'm just, and it's not even his fault, but like, what is that character?

• 2:23:36Speaker 04

  You know when I wanted to hang up the phone?

• 2:23:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Like, I know what it is.

• 2:23:38Speaker 04

  That first scene on the set. That scene, the, the opening, the opening, the opening sequence.

• 2:23:45Sean Fennessey?

  Can I get one more of that one?

• 2:23:46Speaker 04

  I just hated it so, I just hate listening to like, Hollywood people, like, writing about Hollywood people pretending to have, like, deep or emotional or spiritual phone calls while at work? It just makes me so mad!

• 2:24:05Amanda Dobbins?

  But.

• 2:24:06Speaker 04

  All the stuff with Billy Crudup? This is, it's just every single, the daughter sequences, I, I was so mad at this movie for so long. And was waiting for something to redeem it and, oh.

• 2:24:19Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm completely mystified by it. I've spent months and months trying to understand it, understand why I can't connect with it. I thought, it's like, it's like one of my favorite filmmakers in Italy. Like, I don't know what my problem is and I had some problems.

• 2:24:33Speaker 04

  You don't have a problem.

• 2:24:34Amanda Dobbins?

  I know, but listen.

• 2:24:35Sean Fennessey?

  But do you think if, if you give him this prize now, will dispel?

• 2:24:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Can we go back to Greenberg? God, like, I hope so.

• 2:24:40Speaker 04

  I mean, oh my God, I would give anything for Greenberg, a movie that I didn't even love, but I love it in retrospect.

• 2:24:47Sean Fennessey?

  Greenberg 2: I Love L.A. That's what it's gonna be.

• 2:24:50Amanda Dobbins?

  You know what I think about when they're?

• 2:24:51Sean Fennessey?

  It's gonna be like Arthur 2 on the rocks.

• 2:24:54Amanda Dobbins?

  The scene when they're driving the Greta Gerard character to get the abortion and she's like, can we go to In-N-Out afterwards? And he's like, it's your day. I think about it.

• 2:25:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Every day.

• 2:25:05Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:06Speaker 04

  I mean, she's also bad in this movie. Like.

• 2:25:09Sean Fennessey?

  Greta?

• 2:25:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, also, why would she do that to her wife?

• 2:25:12Sean Fennessey?

  I think that, I think he was going for a tone that he just did not quite have his arms around.

• 2:25:16Amanda Dobbins?

  I just don't.

• 2:25:16Sean Fennessey?

  That it was like a little bit more of like a silly Italian, you know, romp.

• 2:25:21Speaker 04

  But he frequently misfires tone. I mean, while we were young.

• 2:25:26Sean Fennessey?

  Disagree.

• 2:25:26Speaker 04

  Like, I don't, I don't know.

• 2:25:27Amanda Dobbins?

  That had ad rock, so that's fine with me.

• 2:25:30Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, we have to keep moving.

• 2:25:31Speaker 04

  What's next? What's next?

• 2:25:32Sean Fennessey?

  Best, we're going to the real awards.

• 2:25:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Congratulations, Noah Baack. You're welcome.

• 2:25:37Speaker 04

  Oh, my God.

• 2:25:37Sean Fennessey?

  Best screenplay. The nominees are Mary Bronstein for If I'd Like, I'd Kick You, Michelangelo Covino and Kyle Morven for Splitsville, Clay Bermeido's Ophelia for The Secret Agent, Zach Craig for Weapons, Ava Victor for Sorry Baby, and Ari Aster for Eddington.

• 2:25:52Amanda Dobbins?

  You're doing your Sorrys like Canadian.

• 2:25:54Sean Fennessey?

  Sorry Baby?

• 2:25:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:55Sean Fennessey?

  Sorry? Sorry?

• 2:25:57Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, I.

• 2:25:57Sean Fennessey?

  The word is not sorry.

• 2:25:59Amanda Dobbins?

  It just, I don't know whether it's like the Matt Johnson, like Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie effect.

• 2:26:04Sean Fennessey?

  I like, that's Canadian.

• 2:26:05Speaker 04

  I've been trying to say sorry, but it just does, as an American, you just don't want to be, let them have it the proper way.

• 2:26:12Sean Fennessey?

  Which prize is Clay Bermeido's Ophelia gonna win? Cause he's gonna win one of these.

• 2:26:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:18Sean Fennessey?

  And he wasn't nominated for any of these.

• 2:26:20Speaker 04

  I feel like, um, what are the, what are our options? It's, it's.

• 2:26:27Amanda Dobbins?

  He's screenplay director.

• 2:26:28Speaker 04

  I think Weapons. I'm gonna say Weapons. If, if we can give, if we can give our, our.

• 2:26:33Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's weird that this is not nominated in original.

• 2:26:36Speaker 04

  I do too. How do you explain that?

• 2:26:38Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know. I really thought it was gonna happen.

• 2:26:40Speaker 04

  It's such a slam dunk.

• 2:26:41Sean Fennessey?

  I know.

• 2:26:41Speaker 04

  For an original screenplay nomination.

• 2:26:43Sean Fennessey?

  I predicted it to be in Best Picture, and my thinking was it's gonna get screenplay, supporting actress, and picture. And that's like a, that's a good package for your like Sixth Sense style, like, original thriller that the Oscars sometimes likes, and it just didn't get there.

• 2:26:56Speaker 04

  And also, my friend Nick Coolish revealed to me is also kind of personal too.

• 2:27:02Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:27:02Speaker 04

  You can feel that. You can feel that. But I didn't know about the sort of undergirding.

• 2:27:06Sean Fennessey?

  Right, his friend who passed away.

• 2:27:08Speaker 04

  I didn't know about any of that stuff.

• 2:27:09Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, and there's all kinds of stuff about addiction and recovery that's in the movie. I, I think it's a really good script.

• 2:27:13Speaker 04

  I love this script. It's a really, really, really, really good script.

• 2:27:16Sean Fennessey?

  You wanna make a case for anything?

• 2:27:19Amanda Dobbins?

  I think this is the only place Mary Bronstein is nominated. I didn't put her in director.

• 2:27:24Speaker 04

  But I mean, I think it's a better directed movie.

• 2:27:26Sean Fennessey?

  I agree with that. I think the script is good, but I think it's like a real vision.

• 2:27:30Speaker 04

  This is a real feat of directing.

• 2:27:31Amanda Dobbins?

  No, and I, and there are a few directorial choices that are amazing, but I don't know. We, you.

• 2:27:37Speaker 04

  The whole thing is a directorial, I mean, the one, I don't like this bit with the ceiling. It's too much.

• 2:27:42Sean Fennessey?

  I do like that.

• 2:27:42Speaker 04

  But just, but just the way that the Rose Byrne and the daughter are handled visually.

• 2:27:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Is transcendent and also.

• 2:27:54Speaker 04

  Just so, so imaginative and surprising.

• 2:27:57Amanda Dobbins?

  You very kindly last night asked me like, how is it being a mom? You know, or some, it wasn't like that.

• 2:28:03Speaker 04

  Kindness. I was truly interested.

• 2:28:04Sean Fennessey?

  It was a mom in the face of the art that is reflecting on that, right?

• 2:28:09Amanda Dobbins?

  And, and if I had like, that kick you is definitely about how it is really shitty to be a mom like that is sort of the thesis statement. But that's not what the thesis statement is.

• 2:28:20Speaker 04

  I don't feel like that's what this movie is about. This is not like the other ones.

• 2:28:23Amanda Dobbins?

  How hard the world makes it to be a parent. And, and I have.

• 2:28:29Sean Fennessey?

  Given certain circumstances too.

• 2:28:31Amanda Dobbins?

  And I have thought about so many specific scenes and not just like the observations, whether it's the parking attendant or like the support group or, you know, the, the wine being shut off at 2am.

• 2:28:46Sean Fennessey?

  I'll never get the image of her just shoving the cheese from the pizza in her mouth in the first scene. Which is the most like, I know that, I know that moment.

• 2:28:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Right. And like, and every interaction with the, the doctor in like, in the hallways, like all of it is so, was all observed. But there's something also written about the character that I think is so, um, fair and revelatory. Like amazing. I, it's a incredible.

• 2:29:13Speaker 04

  The best plot twist in any movie, oh, that's not true. There's been a few good plot twists, but like, this is definitely a top three plot twist. Finding out what her job is.

• 2:29:24Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:29:24Speaker 04

  Like finding out what her job is and the way we find out is one of the funniest, most shocking things. I think I've ever seen that also reveals a character at the same time.

• 2:29:36Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 2:29:37Speaker 04

  Fantastic, so.

• 2:29:38Sean Fennessey?

  I'll give it to Mary Bronstein, Mary Bronstein, if you want to give it to her.

• 2:29:41Speaker 04

  I think Zach Craig is your winner.

• 2:29:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, Zach Craig is gonna, I just, I wanted to make the case.

• 2:29:44Speaker 04

  Again, because the thing about that reveal in If I Legs I Kick You is, it's just how, it's just the POV of the movie. It's just you are completely inside our narcissism. And, uh, stress that of course she knows a thing that she forgot to tell us because she already knows it about herself. So when we find out, you're just like,

• 2:30:12Speaker 04

  the whole time? You've had this job? It's like, okay, anyway, sorry.

• 2:30:17Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, Zach Craig is our winner.

• 2:30:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 2:30:19Sean Fennessey?

  Best Supporting Actor. The nominees are Tom Burke for Black Bag, Tim Key for The Ballad of Wallace Island.

• 2:30:26Speaker 04

  Of all the people you could have picked.

• 2:30:26Sean Fennessey?

  Adam Sandler for J. Kelly, I will not be moved off of that corner. Dylan O'Brien for Anniversary, and I will speak with you guys about Anniversary. Austin Abrams for Weapons, and William H. Macy for Train Dreams.

• 2:30:39Speaker 04

  Oooh.

• 2:30:41Sean Fennessey?

  Now, Dylan O'Brien, you could say, also for Twinless, potentially.

• 2:30:46Amanda Dobbins?

  We are doing that.

• 2:30:47Sean Fennessey?

  We are doing that, so I'll add Anniversary and Twinless. Now Anniversary, you haven't seen it, right?

• 2:30:50Amanda Dobbins?

  No.

• 2:30:51Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, have you seen it?

• 2:30:51Speaker 04

  I haven't seen it.

• 2:30:52Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, deranged film. Possibly the most deranged film of the year. I really like what he is doing in the movie, and it is a very slow evolution towards something that is evil. It's a movie about, um, a very, like, successful college professor, sort of public intellectual type, played by Diane Lane, and her family coming together, I think for a large anniversary party.

• 2:31:15Speaker 04

  I missed a Diane Lane movie last year.

• 2:31:17Sean Fennessey?

  The cast of this movie is Diane Lane, Kyle Chandler, Zoe Deutsch, Phoebe Dynever, Dylan O'Brien, and Daryl McCormick, and McKenna Grace. And it's about the country slowly descending into fascism through the prism of a family that is at the center of this descent.

• 2:31:38Speaker 04

  Oh, wow.

• 2:31:39Sean Fennessey?

  The movie is like, so interesting on paper.

• 2:31:42Speaker 04

  Who did it?

• 2:31:43Sean Fennessey?

  It's a screenplay by someone named Lori Roseanne Gambino, and the director is Jan Komasa. The execution is like, kind of a train wreck, and at times laughable. The performances though are pretty good. And Dylan O'Brien plays kind of what is happening to young men in America. Um, and I don't mean that in like the Joker sense. I mean that in like the Ben Shapiro sense. And it's, he's very good. Now, I'm not sure if I'm recommending this movie. And I think, I feel very similar.

• 2:32:16Speaker 04

  Well, now you've intrigued me. I kind of want to.

• 2:32:18Sean Fennessey?

  It would be like a really great podcast episode, but not a good movie.

• 2:32:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure, yeah.

• 2:32:22Sean Fennessey?

  Um, which is a unique strain of culture.

• 2:32:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Right, but one we find ourselves in more and more.

• 2:32:27Sean Fennessey?

  We, we do indeed. Um, I just wanted to explain that because I couldn't get him out of my head when I was thinking about this category. Um, where, where do you guys lean here?

• 2:32:36Speaker 04

  Austin Abrams.

• 2:32:37Amanda Dobbins?

  I knew you were gonna say that.

• 2:32:38Sean Fennessey?

  We just gave Weapons a lot of love.

• 2:32:40Amanda Dobbins?

  That's okay.

• 2:32:41Speaker 04

  But he, like, it's hard to watch that movie and not, I mean, I just remember watching it being like, whoever this guy is, because you also, the thing that I love about this movie and the way it's structured is, you don't know who's important.

• 2:32:55Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:55Speaker 04

  Right? So there's this guy running around the periphery of this movie. And then all of a sudden, he's got a, he's like, his tunnel reaches the light of his own section.

• 2:33:04Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 2:33:04Speaker 04

  You know?

• 2:33:05Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:05Speaker 04

  And I'm like, oh, wow. First of all, we get a break.

• 2:33:08Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:33:09Speaker 04

  And second of all, we get to spend time with this performance? Like, it's so dialed into the thing that it is, which is like.

• 2:33:16Sean Fennessey?

  Funny, he's like the, he's the sixth consecutive Euphoria cast member who's gonna be a movie star?

• 2:33:24Speaker 04

  Oh, interesting.

• 2:33:25Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, like he was the ninth lead on Euphoria. And now he's gonna lead the Resident Evil movie?

• 2:33:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:33:32Sean Fennessey?

  And he was in Wolf's, he was the best thing in Wolf's.

• 2:33:34Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. Forgot about that.

• 2:33:37Sean Fennessey?

  He's a very good actor. I don't know, who else?

• 2:33:39Speaker 04

  I mean, I'm open to like, have it not be Austin Abrams.

• 2:33:43Amanda Dobbins?

  I put William H. Macy on here just because.

• 2:33:45Speaker 04

  This, William H. Macy.

• 2:33:46Sean Fennessey?

  He's so. He's wonderful, yeah.

• 2:33:48Amanda Dobbins?

  He's so great, and I also, I feel like I've seen every iteration of William H. Macy throughout like 40 years. And I was like, wow, I've never seen this before. And he's really, seven minutes, so beautiful.

• 2:34:00Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, this is his makeup Oscar for not winning for Fargo.

• 2:34:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, there you go.

• 2:34:04Speaker 04

  I mean, also, whatever, we can talk about this. Are we gonna, is? Is old Joel out there somewhere?

• 2:34:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, he's not nominated for best actor.

• 2:34:14Speaker 04

  Okay, well, maybe now is the time to just be like, train dreams, y'all, the acting and train dreams. It's like-

• 2:34:19Sean Fennessey?

  It's really good.

• 2:34:20Speaker 04

  Joel Edgerton, what are we, I mean, you and I, like-

• 2:34:23Sean Fennessey?

  I never got it with him. I know, I never got it with him.

• 2:34:26Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, even Felicity Jones, who I am usually real black licorice about.

• 2:34:29Sean Fennessey?

  That's true.

• 2:34:30Amanda Dobbins?

  And she's great in it.

• 2:34:31Sean Fennessey?

  It was a real union for us, in terms of people that we didn't get, getting them.

• 2:34:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, Joel Edgerton, I just, I, I, it's weird to fall in love with an actor you've been watching for 15 years.

• 2:34:42Sean Fennessey?

  You do like him, though, but you liked him in the past?

• 2:34:44Speaker 04

  I like him, but I feel like there's usually somebody who's more interesting, or he's too much. I really like him in Underground Railroad, because that part is impossible.

• 2:34:55Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:55Speaker 04

  And he manages to do really surprising and absorbing things with it. And I feel like I understand this sort of abstract figure in a way that he makes, he makes that character concrete. But this is just like a completely perfect use of Joel Edgerton.

• 2:35:14Sean Fennessey?

  I agree with that. I think he's very good at-

• 2:35:16Speaker 04

  He's a listener!

• 2:35:17Sean Fennessey?

  He picks very good material, and he's not worried about dominating anything. Um, but I always find him to be just a little bit of a blank sheet of paper. And this was a rare case. And partially, it's just because Dennis Johnson just wrote his life, and imbued him with something that maybe he doesn't always have, to me, as an actor.

• 2:35:34Speaker 04

  I think that also his best mode might be tenderness, right?

• 2:35:38Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, he's like that in Loving, though, you know?

• 2:35:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, but that movie is bad.

• 2:35:43Sean Fennessey?

  I agree.

• 2:35:43Speaker 04

  Like, it doesn't know what to do with him. Um, and this movie seems built around him, right? Like, that's an issue movie that has Joel Edgerton on the side of it. This, uh, this, to me, doesn't work if he doesn't work, I don't think. And he really works in it.

• 2:36:02Sean Fennessey?

  Well, Macy's getting hardware and he's not.

• 2:36:04Speaker 04

  William H. Macy.

• 2:36:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Great.

• 2:36:06Sean Fennessey?

  We've got five more categories. Best Supporting Actress. The nominees are Jodie Comer for 28 Years Later, Una Chaplin for Avatar: Fire and Ash, Vicky Crepes for Father, Mother, Sister, Brother, Nina Haas for Hedda. I'm taking out Pamela Anderson, no shots to Pamela.

• 2:36:23Speaker 04

  Oh, five Pamela.

• 2:36:24Sean Fennessey?

  Tanya Maria for The Secret Agent, Kirsten Dunst for Roof Man-

• 2:36:27Speaker 04

  Oh, yes!

• 2:36:28Sean Fennessey?

  And Regina Hall for One Battle After Another.

• 2:36:32Amanda Dobbins?

  It's hard for me to not pick Kiki. My, you know, my number one forever, my writer day. I didn't love Roofman. She is also, she's a very, very elevated girlfriend, but she is playing the girlfriend. I want more for Kirsten Dunst.

• 2:36:48Speaker 04

  I think this part is great, though. The movie does not work and it's kind of a, it's almost a crime. The movie thinks it's gonna get away with what it tried to get away with. But.

• 2:36:59Sean Fennessey?

  Just like the Roofman.

• 2:37:00Speaker 04

  Well, exactly. This is the, but this is the problem. They're completely aligned.

• 2:37:03Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:04Speaker 04

  Right?

• 2:37:04Sean Fennessey?

  You said the same thing.

• 2:37:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:05Sean Fennessey?

  I don't agree, but you know, that's just me.

• 2:37:07Speaker 04

  I think she is so good in this movie.

• 2:37:10Amanda Dobbins?

  She's good in everything.

• 2:37:11Speaker 04

  I know, but this is like a particularly smart use of a person who you would think would be too good for a part like this. But the understanding of her very transparency as an actor and her ability to play both acquiescence and skepticism simultaneously with that face, right? That face that looks like it's been around the world.

• 2:37:38Speaker 04

  And every scene with every actor she's with, it's kind of a different kind of weariness. With the church people, it's one thing. With Channing Tatum, it's another. With the daughter, it's something else. With them all together, it's a different thing. Her and Dinklage, who plays her boss at the big box store where she works, is a different energy. She's like kind, but withholding, sweet, but if you cross her, she will, she will put a, to put a knife in your chest. Like, I don't know. I just, I can't believe, talk about a movie that had one great supporting performance in it that didn't get any nominations that should have gotten one for this.

• 2:38:17Amanda Dobbins?

  All right, well then, fine.

• 2:38:19Speaker 04

  Anyway.

• 2:38:19Sean Fennessey?

  Wow.

• 2:38:20Amanda Dobbins?

  But feel free.

• 2:38:21Speaker 04

  Toni Maria, listen.

• 2:38:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Toni Maria.

• 2:38:22Speaker 04

  I could give a similar speech about Toni Maria.

• 2:38:25Sean Fennessey?

  Toni Maria from The Secret Agent. We will talk about The Secret Agent in depth on Friday on this show.

• 2:38:32Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, nobody fucking saw the Jim Jarmusch movie. But Vicky Crepes is phenomenal in the Jim Jarmusch movie.

• 2:38:36Speaker 04

  I just, I'm just out of gas on him. I'm sorry. I, I'll, I should break down and see it, but.

• 2:38:42Sean Fennessey?

  Nina Hoss for Hetta, no?

• 2:38:44Speaker 04

  She was great.

• 2:38:44Amanda Dobbins?

  She was good.

• 2:38:45Speaker 04

  I mean, I, I, I felt like.

• 2:38:51Sean Fennessey?

  Very menacing and tragic.

• 2:38:52Speaker 04

  I watched it, I'm like, oh, she's really going for this.

• 2:38:54Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's big.

• 2:38:55Speaker 04

  Like, all the tier, well, it's funny because it's such a busty part. And I'm like, well, what is the bustiness about here? And this is like, to me, all that chestiness is like full emotional exposure. And just like, the amount of crying is sort of proportional to the amount of bust. It just, also, she's never acted like that in anything before.

• 2:39:16Sean Fennessey?

  No, it's the opposite of what she's like in the Petzold movies, or, yeah.

• 2:39:20Speaker 04

  I've never seen her give a performance like that.

• 2:39:22Sean Fennessey?

  Totally, she's usually much more restrained.

• 2:39:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, I just, I loved it, like, the damn, the damn burst.

• 2:39:27Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:28Speaker 04

  Uh, oh, boy, it's a tough one.

• 2:39:30Sean Fennessey?

  This is a loaded category. I would just wanna make a note for Verang, Una Chaplain from Avatar. That's a Navi that I'm interested in.

• 2:39:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, I, I-

• 2:39:39Sean Fennessey?

  Lot of hips going on there?

• 2:39:41Speaker 04

  Lot of hips. Wait, is she, is she the, she's the, like, the, the bad lady? Um, okay, that, she's, she's good, that's good.

• 2:39:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:51Speaker 04

  That's good. Lot of, lot of good choices-

• 2:39:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:53Speaker 04

  That she makes.

• 2:39:54Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, Tanya Maria is really-

• 2:39:56Speaker 04

  This is, this should be, this is the real supporting actress category right here. I'm sorry, with all due respect.

• 2:40:01Sean Fennessey?

  We picked a good one.

• 2:40:02Speaker 04

  This is, this is, this is the, this is a great one.

• 2:40:04Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, Tanya Maria is gonna win.

• 2:40:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Great.

• 2:40:07Speaker 04

  Tanya!

• 2:40:08Sean Fennessey?

  Best actor. Vinicio Del Toro for The Phoenician Scheme, Lee Byung-hun for No Other Choice, Josh O'Connor for Wake Up Dead Man and The Masterma- and The Mastermind.

• 2:40:20Speaker 04

  That's one too many.

• 2:40:20Sean Fennessey?

  Ben Wishaw for Peter Hoosier's Day, Harry Melling for Pillion, and Jesse Plemons for Begonia.

• 2:40:27Speaker 04

  This is a good one. Uh... I would love to hear you guys talk about Josh O'Connor, but only in one movie, and that's, uh... The Kelly Reichart movie.

• 2:40:38Sean Fennessey?

  The Mastermind.

• 2:40:39Speaker 04

  And I-

• 2:40:40Sean Fennessey?

  It's my favorite of his performances.

• 2:40:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, I, I would agree with that. I still not enough there for me. But the character is really good. And, you know, well, we'll talk about the movie itself later if we want, but-

• 2:40:54Sean Fennessey?

  The scintillating indictment of all men from Kelly Reichart.

• 2:40:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, I mean, I think, but I think the character is stronger than the performance in a way. Um, what am I, Harry Melling?

• 2:41:07Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:41:07Speaker 04

  What's my other option?

• 2:41:08Sean Fennessey?

  Clemens, Ben Whishaw.

• 2:41:10Speaker 04

  Oh, Ben, listen, what a hard job. That movie, what is he, just speaking a transcript? On a sofa and on a roof?

• 2:41:18Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 2:41:19Speaker 04

  It's...

• 2:41:21Sean Fennessey?

  I like that movie.

• 2:41:22Speaker 04

  I love, I love that movie. It's, it's short and sweet. She's also really good, Rebecca Hall. That she, she decides to do the accent.

• 2:41:30Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:41:31Speaker 04

  I, I don't know. I just love the quiet,

• 2:41:37Speaker 04

  intellectual subtlety of this film.

• 2:41:43Sean Fennessey?

  It's the assumption that you would understand what they're talking about, which is a really good choice.

• 2:41:47Speaker 04

  Like, New York in the eighties. The New York art world in the eighties, I'm there. But he's just such a, I've never seen him like this before. Like, not neurotic.

• 2:41:58Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, he's more like confident, like brazen almost, yeah.

• 2:42:03Speaker 04

  Yes, this is a version of him that I really like and...

• 2:42:06Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm, I mean, I'm a fan. He's Paddington, he's, he's Q.

• 2:42:10Speaker 04

  Wait, he's Paddington?

• 2:42:11Amanda Dobbins?

  He's the voice of Paddington in all three films.

• 2:42:13Speaker 04

  Paddington?

• 2:42:14Amanda Dobbins?

  He is, it's wonderful. Yeah, have you not seen this?

• 2:42:19Speaker 04

  I've seen them.

• 2:42:22Speaker 04

  I didn't know Ben Whishaw.

• 2:42:23Sean Fennessey?

  Doesn't that make it better?

• 2:42:27Sean Fennessey?

  Who's, who's winning this category?

• 2:42:30Speaker 04

  Okay, well, I guess you learn something new every day. So I listen to this show.

• 2:42:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, so you're out, you're out on Josh O'Connor.

• 2:42:38Speaker 04

  I'm not out, I just feel like...

• 2:42:40Sean Fennessey?

  Is that where your heart was leaning?

• 2:42:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, well, no, I, he just, he brought it up and he's like, I wanna hear you talk about it.

• 2:42:45Speaker 04

  How are we not talking about Lee Byung-hun?

• 2:42:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:47Speaker 04

  Like, what are we doing?

• 2:42:48Sean Fennessey?

  He would be my pick.

• 2:42:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 2:42:49Speaker 04

  So come on, this guy leaves it all out there. Impossible performance, you should hate him, but you kinda can't because like, what would you do?

• 2:42:58Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 2:42:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 2:42:58Speaker 04

  Like...

• 2:42:59Sean Fennessey?

  Well, I probably wouldn't create a fake paper company to then get job applications from all my enemies and kill them. That isn't something that I personally would do.

• 2:43:07Speaker 04

  Oh, he's so, like, it's funny and stressful.

• 2:43:11Sean Fennessey?

  That's the thing.

• 2:43:12Speaker 04

  It's funny and it's stressful.

• 2:43:13Sean Fennessey?

  Dramatic performance that is very funny. Slapstick, a lot of perspective stuff that is great. I, I want Lee Byung-hun. I thought he had like a weird outside chance to get in here and it turns out he did not.

• 2:43:24Amanda Dobbins?

  The Academy just is not interested in this film or in Park Chan Wook. Don't really know. Not Cannes, though.

• 2:43:30Speaker 04

  He'll, he'll get his, he'll get his chance.

• 2:43:33Sean Fennessey?

  He, the president of, at the Cannes Film Festival this year, of the jury.

• 2:43:36Speaker 04

  Oh, this year?

• 2:43:36Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, Park Chan Wook.

• 2:43:37Speaker 04

  Ooh, oh, Park Chan Wook. Okay, that took long enough.

• 2:43:40Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 2:43:40Speaker 04

  I'm surprised it hasn't happened before.

• 2:43:42Sean Fennessey?

  I agree.

• 2:43:42Speaker 04

  He's never been on the jury?

• 2:43:43Sean Fennessey?

  No, and he, I think Old Boy was the first movie he had there. I think he's had like five movies there.

• 2:43:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm surprised he's never been on the jury at all.

• 2:43:50Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, best actress.

• 2:43:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:43:52Sean Fennessey?

  Julia Roberts for After the Hunt. Amanda Seyfried for The Housemaid and The Testament of Ann Lee.

• 2:43:56Speaker 04

  Oh, my god.

• 2:43:57Sean Fennessey?

  Susan Sharp for On Becoming a Guinea Fowl, Jennifer Lawrence for Die, My Love, Kathleen Chalfonte for Familiar Touch, and I put Ana de Armas for Eden.

• 2:44:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, let's talk about Julia. I put it on, just to talk to you about it. I mean, I think she's good in this.

• 2:44:17Speaker 04

  She's.

• 2:44:18Amanda Dobbins?

  In this absolute mystery of a film.

• 2:44:20Speaker 04

  She's very good in a movie that has no idea why it exists.

• 2:44:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Why does it exist?

• 2:44:25Sean Fennessey?

  Totally agreed.

• 2:44:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Can you, can you explain the last scene of After the Hunt to us? Like, what is your interpretation?

• 2:44:31Speaker 04

  Of her in the hospital bed? Oh, the reunion scene.

• 2:44:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, the reunion scene.

• 2:44:35Speaker 04

  In, in, in my old, my old Indian jammie.

• 2:44:37Sean Fennessey?

  Is that your spot?

• 2:44:38Speaker 04

  That was my, that was my spot.

• 2:44:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Wow.

• 2:44:40Speaker 04

  Like, I mean, it's, it's pretty good, too. I'm surprised they didn't change it into something else, too. It's just what it is.

• 2:44:46Sean Fennessey?

  It's weird, because did you see the VFX reel?

• 2:44:49Speaker 04

  It's a movie set in New Haven, Connecticut, at Yale University.

• 2:44:52Sean Fennessey?

  Did, did you see that they, the way that they rebuilt the campus with VFX?

• 2:44:56Speaker 04

  I read a very good piece of art criticism, um, by a guy named, I think, Chris Hawthorne, Christopher Hawthorne.

• 2:45:03Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, yeah, sure, longtime architecture critic, yeah.

• 2:45:05Speaker 04

  Um, he wrote about this movie. He wrote about the Woody Allen, um, opening credits.

• 2:45:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Right, the.

• 2:45:12Speaker 04

  Real flex. And.

• 2:45:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Really funny, honestly.

• 2:45:15Speaker 04

  Like, the way the movie recreates Yale, um, somewhere else.

• 2:45:19Sean Fennessey?

  It's interesting that they did that, but they used the restaurant. Like, it's been noted that the restaurant is like, that's a known place.

• 2:45:24Speaker 04

  It's a real place. Um, anyway, ah, I don't, well, that's funny, I have a hard time loving, I, I love this performance, but everything about it, everything else about it is so false.

• 2:45:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:45:38Speaker 04

  And unsure of itself, that her confidence.

• 2:45:43Speaker 04

  In a weird way, as for as good as, I can isolate it from the badness of the movie, but then it kinda makes the movie worse because it means that she was probably left to direct herself. You know, in a weird way.

• 2:45:55Sean Fennessey?

  I think she just had a real handle on this character and made like all the choices that she wanted to make. And she's powerful enough to be like, this is how I'm gonna do this. But then there were a lot of other actors who are not, I think Garfield's pretty good in it.

• 2:46:06Speaker 04

  He's not bad.

• 2:46:07Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's not his best.

• 2:46:09Speaker 04

  But it's not a good part. The part is bad.

• 2:46:11Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I agree.

• 2:46:12Speaker 04

  He's making the most of a, of a really shitty part.

• 2:46:15Sean Fennessey?

  He's kind of like a series of talking points. He's not really like a person.

• 2:46:17Amanda Dobbins?

  I think Chloe 70 is great.

• 2:46:18Speaker 04

  She is too. And the scene with them at the, at the bar, talking about the Smiths. A thing that has never happened ever either. Like two, your two, two very popular professors just chilling in the, one of the New Haven Dive Bar? Didn't, never happened.

• 2:46:36Sean Fennessey?

  I agree. The whole, the, the script is a farce.

• 2:46:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Are all New Haven professors, or Yale professors living like that? Because that apartment was.

• 2:46:43Speaker 04

  There's some people who can do that.

• 2:46:44Amanda Dobbins?

  It's quite stylish. I've thought a lot about. Well, listen.

• 2:46:48Speaker 04

  It's achievable.

• 2:46:49Amanda Dobbins?

  The kitchen.

• 2:46:50Speaker 04

  Oh, you mean her house?

• 2:46:52Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, and her apartment.

• 2:46:53Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, that's easy. That's just like, there's like a, there's like three streets where that can happen.

• 2:46:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 2:46:58Sean Fennessey?

  That's easy.

• 2:46:59Speaker 04

  I mean.

• 2:46:59Amanda Dobbins?

  That's easy. That, the stripes.

• 2:47:01Speaker 04

  It's not a stretch.

• 2:47:02Sean Fennessey?

  Is Julia winning this category?

• 2:47:04Speaker 04

  Well, wait, hold on. I mean.

• 2:47:08Amanda Dobbins?

  You groaned at Jennifer Lawrence.

• 2:47:09Speaker 04

  Kathleen, Kathleen Chalfont.

• 2:47:11Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. I liked Familiar Touch.

• 2:47:13Speaker 04

  Exquisite.

• 2:47:13Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 2:47:14Speaker 04

  Exquisite. Like, the idea that there weren't enough actors who saw her give this performance is such a bummer to me.

• 2:47:20Sean Fennessey?

  Did she win New York Film Critics Circle? What, what?

• 2:47:23Speaker 04

  She won something for this?

• 2:47:24Sean Fennessey?

  She did win a prize. What prize did she win for this?

• 2:47:26Speaker 04

  Ah, that's very sweet.

• 2:47:29Sean Fennessey?

  She definitely won a Critics Prize that was an early, like, we're giving this, we're shining a light on this, this movie.

• 2:47:34Speaker 04

  Oh, alright, well, that's good.

• 2:47:35Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, but it got, I mean, it was a very small release in May. Not a lot of people saw it. I think it's a very good film.

• 2:47:39Speaker 04

  Very good movie, very well directed, really well written, and she is so good.

• 2:47:44Amanda Dobbins?

  National Society of Film Critics.

• 2:47:45Speaker 04

  Ah, good for them. Good for them. Um, I.

• 2:47:50Sean Fennessey?

  Can we talk about Seifert real quick?

• 2:47:52Amanda Dobbins?

  And also, I think she won the, um, Horizonte Award at Venice for Best Actress.

• 2:47:57Sean Fennessey?

  There you go. Um, now, The Housemaid, I think she's very amusing in. I don't know that I would put it up in any real awards race. And Lee, I, I think she's fucking fire in.

• 2:48:09Amanda Dobbins?

  I loved it.

• 2:48:10Speaker 04

  Go on.

• 2:48:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, it's a no.

• 2:48:13Speaker 04

  Wait, did I miss the Ann Lee episode?

• 2:48:15Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 2:48:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:48:15Speaker 04

  All right, I'll go back and listen to it.

• 2:48:17Sean Fennessey?

  It was a relatively brief conversation.

• 2:48:18Speaker 04

  You don't have to do it here. I will find it because...

• 2:48:22Amanda Dobbins?

  We both liked it. We thought it was, like, again, I saw it like at Venice with no context or whatever besides knowing that it was Mona Fastfold and Brady Corbeil. And was surprised and found it to be like the other half of the, or the other perspective of The Brutalist, but in a way that made more sense to me or where they connected the dots a bit more while also being really weird. Like, I really liked the music and the choreography. I thought that it communicated, like...

• 2:48:52Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's a crazy performance, too. It's like, it's very physical with all the birthing stuff that is very traumatic and the physical abuse, plus the singing and the choreography and dancing that she has to do. You know, the whole movie is on her face the whole time. I think it's like a major, major performance. I loved it. I love her. I've always loved her as an actor. I like when she challenges herself. The housemate is her not really challenging herself. It's a paycheck job.

• 2:49:15Amanda Dobbins?

  But she's having fun. She could have also been nominated for most fun had in a movie.

• 2:49:21Speaker 04

  I love this woman so much.

• 2:49:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Amanda Seyfried? Me too.

• 2:49:26Speaker 04

  I really, and I love the idea of Brady Corbeil and Mona Fastfold. I mean, I, I love The Brutalist, so it's not even like so much the idea. I love the work. This one...

• 2:49:39Sean Fennessey?

  You couldn't get into it?

• 2:49:40Speaker 04

  I just felt like it's trying so hard to not be that Shaker movie, that it's the, it's the other Shaker movie, and it's so, it's so the other Shaker movie that I couldn't get my heart, mind, even my eyes sometimes, all the way around it. And I just, in every, with each passing scene, I felt more alienated by it. I also wish they had not cast anybody I recognized because... None of the other actors have anything to do. So I'm like, well, where'd Christopher Abbott go?

• 2:50:17Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 2:50:18Speaker 04

  Like, I'm kinda interested in him as an actor. And now I'm like, is he coming back? Where'd he go? So if it had just been her-

• 2:50:25Sean Fennessey?

  He was in the role of all men.

• 2:50:27Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:50:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:50:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, I just-

• 2:50:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Except for Louis Pullman.

• 2:50:30Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 2:50:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Who is in the role of-

• 2:50:31Sean Fennessey?

  A faithful brother.

• 2:50:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, nice brother.

• 2:50:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, I just, I really, this movie really kept pushing me out of the theater so hard.

• 2:50:39Sean Fennessey?

  Could not disagree with you a lot.

• 2:50:40Speaker 04

  I, I know, I know.

• 2:50:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Do you think any of that's like a Pennsylvania thing? Don't the Shakers have a presence in Pennsylvania?

• 2:50:46Speaker 04

  I mean, I'm sure the-

• 2:50:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, no, I know, but isn't there like-

• 2:50:47Speaker 04

  I'm sure the Shakers must-

• 2:50:49Amanda Dobbins?

  You know, in that core?

• 2:50:50Sean Fennessey?

  It just wasn't, I don't, the Shakers were not a part of my childhood.

• 2:50:54Amanda Dobbins?

  I was not at all familiar. I didn't know that it was Shaking Quakers until this movie, so.

• 2:50:59Speaker 04

  Oh, interesting. So you guys like learned-

• 2:51:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, yeah.

• 2:51:02Sean Fennessey?

  It wasn't about that. To me, it was, I'm, I find most modern musicals quite tedious. And I thought this was a fascinating reinvention of what to expect from that.

• 2:51:12Speaker 04

  This is such a like easy pitch for me.

• 2:51:14Sean Fennessey?

  I grew up in the church and was like, people who are ecstatically performing their faith, as opposed to the, what I observed as a person going to Catholic church in the suburbs in the 1980s. This was moving, honestly, fascinating. And also like, I really liked that Ann Lee, on paper, very much seems like a kook. Very much seems like a cultist. And that the movie does not engage with that.

• 2:51:38Speaker 04

  But it's in there.

• 2:51:39Sean Fennessey?

  But it, but it is a very, it is a very non-judgmental portrayal of the events of her life in a way that I find interesting.

• 2:51:50Sean Fennessey?

  We have to keep going.

• 2:51:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:51Sean Fennessey?

  Where, what, who are we picking in this category?

• 2:51:53Speaker 04

  I'm going with Kathleen Schelfer.

• 2:51:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Even though the critics already gave out the, and you, and you just, you rolled your eyes at Jennifer Lawrence. It's a no for you?

• 2:52:01Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 2:52:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, well.

• 2:52:03Speaker 04

  What an embarrassment. That whole movie is-

• 2:52:06Amanda Dobbins?

  I loved it. I loved it. And you know what? I saw it on a date with Zach and we were both cracking up and we were just like rocking on this movie.

• 2:52:13Speaker 04

  At the movie?

• 2:52:14Amanda Dobbins?

  No, because I was postpartum at the, when I saw it. I was like, yeah.

• 2:52:18Speaker 04

  I really wanna be respectful to that experience.

• 2:52:21Amanda Dobbins?

  It's fine, listen, you, you do you and-

• 2:52:23Speaker 04

  This is, this is, this is one of the most embarrassing uses of two good actors I have ever seen. They are in acting class 101 and the instructor is been like out and we are watching this, so. Because, I mean, some of the things that happen here, I'm like, this is really a thing that happens in acting class on your first day.

• 2:52:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Right, where you crawl around like-

• 2:52:47Sean Fennessey?

  Bark like a dog.

• 2:52:47Speaker 04

  I just, I was so embarrassed for these people.

• 2:52:51Sean Fennessey?

  A primal expression of motherhood.

• 2:52:53Speaker 04

  And I watched, and I, what was, I watched, uh, what was the one before this, a Jennifer Lawrence movie?

• 2:52:59Sean Fennessey?

  No Hard Feelings.

• 2:52:59Speaker 04

  I love that movie, and it's the same, it's kind of the same, like, feat of not giving a fuck, right? I loved that movie so much more because she was giving so much more to a movie that really didn't need it, and this movie is taking so much from her and giving us nothing, giving us nothing.

• 2:53:24Sean Fennessey?

  Siphoning your life force.

• 2:53:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Also like a baby.

• 2:53:26Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, siphoning your, your mental wellness.

• 2:53:29Amanda Dobbins?

  And then she's just married to this cute tall guy who brings home a, a dog for no reason.

• 2:53:33Speaker 04

  And he's such a dick, I just, I really, really actively dislike this movie.

• 2:53:38Sean Fennessey?

  I think you're actually weirdly agreeing about the film's success. Uh, I fall right in the middle of the two of you. I wouldn't give it to Jennifer.

• 2:53:44Speaker 04

  Julia Roberts.

• 2:53:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, great, Julia Roberts.

• 2:53:46Sean Fennessey?

  Another piece of, of hardware for Julia Roberts. Okay, last two categories.

• 2:53:50Amanda Dobbins?

  She only has one, it's not enough.

• 2:53:52Sean Fennessey?

  I think she has like 14 Golden Globes.

• 2:53:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, that doesn't, it doesn't really count.

• 2:53:55Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, okay, best director.

• 2:53:57Amanda Dobbins?

  What if she sent them back, like Tom Cruise? We don't know.

• 2:54:00Speaker 04

  Did he send his back, really?

• 2:54:01Sean Fennessey?

  He did, yeah. Um, after the HFPA scandal. Okay, best director.

• 2:54:05Speaker 04

  Good for him.

• 2:54:06Sean Fennessey?

  Mona Fastfold for The Testament of Ann Lee, Steven Soderbergh for Black Bag, Kelly Reichardt for The Mastermind, Kleber Mendoza-Filio for The Secret Agent, Park Chan Wook for No Other Choice, Jafar Panahi for It Was Just An Accident. I'm just gonna put it on the table, I'm going with Kleber Mendoza-Filio.

• 2:54:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 2:54:26Speaker 04

  I agree.

• 2:54:27Amanda Dobbins?

  I would like to make an honorary case for Jafar Panahi, where it was just an accident.

• 2:54:31Speaker 04

  Honorary?

• 2:54:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Not honorary, but like, I guess I'm outvoted? I mean, not an honorary, like, let's just, let's, let's have the conversation. What happened to this wonderful film that has just been absolutely-

• 2:54:42Sean Fennessey?

  It's a good question.

• 2:54:43Amanda Dobbins?

  -overlooked?

• 2:54:44Speaker 04

  I think that, at some point-

• 2:54:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Read a newspaper, guys.

• 2:54:51Speaker 04

  But that's not the reason.

• 2:54:51Amanda Dobbins?

  I know, it's not.

• 2:54:53Speaker 04

  Because I think the thing that works about this movie is that it's applicable to all moments in time of human history.

• 2:54:59Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 2:55:00Speaker 04

  I also think that it is specifically, obviously about Iran. But I just really, I love this movie.

• 2:55:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:55:08Speaker 04

  I just can pick one person, I'm picking Mendoza.

• 2:55:11Amanda Dobbins?

  I think that's valid.

• 2:55:12Speaker 04

  Because he made the movie that, to me, of these people was the most difficult to pull off.

• 2:55:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:55:18Speaker 04

  Right? This is operating in a kind of, like, narrative and moral and political swamp. He has found a real, like, light on the boat that takes you across the hell river.

• 2:55:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:55:34Speaker 04

  Um, I think Jafar Panahi, I think that script is really the achievement there. Also, like, he's very good at directing those actors.

• 2:55:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:55:44Speaker 04

  Um, I think that Kelly Reichardt's achievement with The Mastermind is the script. That is the single best movie ending of the year, I think.

• 2:55:54Amanda Dobbins?

  I was gonna say, we should have put it in ending. Do we wanna go back and take it from Begonia and give it to The Mastermind?

• 2:55:59Sean Fennessey?

  Nah, nah.

• 2:56:00Amanda Dobbins?

  It's so good, I know.

• 2:56:02Speaker 04

  The ending of The Mastermind is...

• 2:56:04Sean Fennessey?

  They're like, well, what was that all for?

• 2:56:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:56:06Speaker 04

  I mean, just wonderful, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful ending.

• 2:56:09Sean Fennessey?

  So, if you haven't seen The Mastermind, it's on movie right now, I would highly encourage people to check it out.

• 2:56:13Speaker 04

  Um, but I think that I'm gonna say that Claver...

• 2:56:17Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm fine with that.

• 2:56:18Speaker 04

  Fia Mendoza is your winner.

• 2:56:20Sean Fennessey?

  I agree.

• 2:56:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 2:56:21Sean Fennessey?

  Um...

• 2:56:22Speaker 04

  Directing, like, people who've never acted before.

• 2:56:25Sean Fennessey?

  Hearing, you know, you guys talking about Panahi, it occurs to me that even though we, all we do is talk about the International Academy, right? And it's become very European in the last 10 years, and increasingly South American.

• 2:56:36Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:56:36Sean Fennessey?

  And Brazilian films are really getting their due right now. We've seen some of the Pablo Lorraine films from Chile get some love. There have never been a film from the Middle East or a film from Africa nominated for Best Picture in the history of the Academy Awards. Very notable.

• 2:56:53Speaker 04

  I mean, I think they probably think they got it done without Africa. They can cross it off the list.

• 2:57:00Sean Fennessey?

  I wonder if that is the next phase, that it's almost like the Academy is not really as familiar with Panahi's work and they don't have the same level of legacy and like, you know, they maybe haven't seen all the Kirstami films, they don't know about the Iranian new wave. They're not into that history.

• 2:57:16Speaker 04

  I mean, but there's like still, I mean, they're like the West Africans, the Black French, the Iranians, although, I mean, what are we talking about now, right?

• 2:57:35Sean Fennessey?

  You know, there's like Tunisian cinema, you know, there's all kinds of places.

• 2:57:39Speaker 04

  There are still the Romanians, like, I mean, one of those guys is gonna have a moment. I don't know, this is an interesting way to think about what, like, how much bigger the tent has to get.

• 2:57:52Sean Fennessey?

  Well, like My Father's Shadow, which is a Nigerian-British film, is set in Lagos, like, it is, it is, it's an African movie. And it's like very well reviewed and was represented at BAFTA, but like, has it never even had a moment in any Oscar conversation? And I'm just pointing it out.

• 2:58:11Speaker 04

  No, no, I mean, it's worth noting, I think that is to come, I believe.

• 2:58:16Sean Fennessey?

  It feels like it might be a decade or two before they really get all around to all of that, because it's a lot of history that most Western film lovers are just not as informed about. And so they don't feel the same sense of, well, we have to recognize Panahi's achievements because, you know, they didn't see Taxi or whatever, or forget about the films that he made in the 90s and 2000s.

• 2:58:40Speaker 04

  Taxi, there is, I mean, there's a masterpiece, one of his.

• 2:58:44Sean Fennessey?

  He's made many.

• 2:58:44Speaker 04

  Several masterpieces.

• 2:58:45Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, um, last category, Best Picture, because we gotta get out of here. The nominees are Black Bag, Eddington, Die My Love, It Was Just An Accident, No Other Choice, The Mastermind, The Phoenician Scheme, Sorry Baby, The Testament of Anle, and Weapons.

• 2:59:01Sean Fennessey?

  I have no idea what's winning here.

• 2:59:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 2:59:03Speaker 04

  This is easy for me.

• 2:59:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Go ahead.

• 2:59:05Speaker 04

  Weapons.

• 2:59:07Amanda Dobbins?

  It seems like there probably is the most.

• 2:59:09Sean Fennessey?

  This is probably the film that has the highest number of votes to get into Best Picture in the Academy that didn't make it. That would be my guess.

• 2:59:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:59:18Sean Fennessey?

  Maybe it was just an accident. Is there too?

• 2:59:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Or no, well, No Other Choice, no.

• 2:59:22Sean Fennessey?

  No Other Choice just gotten dinged everywhere.

• 2:59:24Amanda Dobbins?

  I know.

• 2:59:24Sean Fennessey?

  I would pick No Other Choice. No Other Choice was my third favorite movie of the year.

• 2:59:28Speaker 04

  I love No Other Choice. I love No Other Choice. Uh, I just, I also just, I mean,

• 2:59:35Speaker 04

  I've seen Park Chan Wook do that before.

• 2:59:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 2:59:39Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. I think that's been the biggest criticism.

• 2:59:41Speaker 04

  I, if you've seen his movies, you know that this is just him returning to form.

• 2:59:46Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:59:46Speaker 04

  It's not him transcending the form he returned to.

• 2:59:48Sean Fennessey?

  That is a very fair, fair take.

• 2:59:50Speaker 04

  I think that Weapons was.

• 2:59:52Sean Fennessey?

  The form, by the way, that you're referring to is of one of the 15 greatest filmmakers on earth. Like, it's not as though he's returning to form, which is a piece of shit.

• 2:59:59Speaker 04

  Oh, no. Like, the movie is still very good, but I mean, it's, this movie is not better than, you know, the first four.

• 3:00:09Sean Fennessey?

  I like it.

• 3:00:10Speaker 04

  But I really, really love it. I mean, it's as good as, it's as good as, it's as good as.

• 3:00:14Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's in like, I think it's like A minus territory and he has a couple of A movies, right? He has Old Boy, he has Handmaiden, he has a couple of like A movies.

• 3:00:23Speaker 04

  I also don't love the ending. I think that everything is, everything about this movie is note perfect until you get to the dismount. Um, also.

• 3:00:33Sean Fennessey?

  Once again, AI.

• 3:00:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. That last shot. I mean, it's like paired with Eddington. Yeah.

• 3:00:39Speaker 04

  Um, I, I mean, Weapons, Weapons.

• 3:00:44Sean Fennessey?

  Where do you, what do, what do, where do you lean?

• 3:00:46Amanda Dobbins?

  I think No Other Choice, It Was Just An Accident, Weapons are probably like the consensus things here. Like, if, if you were on the Eddington train, I might put, but you're not.

• 3:01:00Speaker 04

  I'm really not.

• 3:01:00Amanda Dobbins?

  You know, and.

• 3:01:02Sean Fennessey?

  It's all about consensus. That's my number two movie of the year.

• 3:01:05Speaker 04

  I knew that, I knew that, I knew that, I knew that.

• 3:01:08Amanda Dobbins?

  And I, I really liked it.

• 3:01:10Speaker 04

  I love listening, I love listening to people, I love, I've not read, I've not read enough about this movie. But I've heard, you know, I've heard enough.

• 3:01:18Sean Fennessey?

  It is just like, it is the, the dark vampiric truth of how the world is. And the Paramount Warner Brothers thing that we clear our throat about for three hours ago is like, it's all there, man.

• 3:01:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, I, it's true. I mean, it might, it might warrant me re-watching it under the circumstances, but, I mean, for our purposes today, I'm going to say-

• 3:01:41Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm good with weapons.

• 3:01:42Speaker 04

  I'm gonna say weapons.

• 3:01:43Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 3:01:43Speaker 04

  Sorry, Mr. Panahi.

• 3:01:46Sean Fennessey?

  I think Weapons is an absolutely wonderful winner because it's a movie that would never win Best Picture at the Academy Awards. And that's why it deserves its love here. How do you feel about this exercise? Good?

• 3:01:56Speaker 04

  Yeah. I love it.

• 3:01:57Sean Fennessey?

  Good?

• 3:01:57Speaker 04

  I love talking to you guys.

• 3:01:59Amanda Dobbins?

  We solved everything?

• 3:02:00Speaker 04

  Figuring it all out.

• 3:02:01Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I'm going to work at Paramount, guys.

• 3:02:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 3:02:03Sean Fennessey?

  Just a heads up. This is my last episode. Thanks, everybody. Hey, Jack, thank you so much for everything. I'll see you never again, okay, buddy? Gotta go join the Ellison Army.

• 3:02:13Speaker 04

  Whoa.

• 3:02:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 3:02:15Speaker 04

  I mean, I guess, I guess we can do this.

• 3:02:18Sean Fennessey?

  You guys can do this now. Congratulations. You've been elevated from third chair-

• 3:02:22Speaker 04

  Oh, my God.

• 3:02:23Sean Fennessey?

  To second chair.

• 3:02:23Speaker 04

  I'm definitely gonna get canned under the, under the, I mean, although we get to stay here until, until y'all buy us. Or buy, buy us, buy us Spotify.

• 3:02:32Sean Fennessey?

  In my first act as Paramount.

• 3:02:34Speaker 04

  You buy the New York Times?

• 3:02:35Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, chief, I will be buying Spotify.

• 3:02:36Speaker 04

  You buy the New York Times and you buy Spotify. Oh, boy.

• 3:02:39Sean Fennessey?

  Hey, guys, it's Sean. The big picture's canceled.

• 3:02:43Sean Fennessey?

  Wesley Morris, thank you. We can find you in the New York Times. We can find you on your show Cannonball, which I highly encourage people to listen to. Where else can we find you?

• 3:02:50Speaker 04

  That's it.

• 3:02:51Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 3:02:51Speaker 04

  Home?

• 3:02:53Sean Fennessey?

  Well, hopefully they don't find your home.

• 3:02:54Speaker 04

  Traveling with my man? I don't know.

• 3:02:56Sean Fennessey?

  Where are you going next?

• 3:02:58Speaker 04

  Uh, Lima, Peru.

• 3:02:59Amanda Dobbins?

  Wow.

• 3:03:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, my best friend and, and his, and his wife, who's also my very good friend, they live there. They've lived there for years. This is their last year before they move somewhere else. And so my annual trips to Lima are going to come to an end.

• 3:03:12Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, that sounds awesome.

• 3:03:13Speaker 04

  Very sad about it, but I'm gonna go for one last. Great eating city.

• 3:03:18Sean Fennessey?

  I have the best time.

• 3:03:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I'm jealous.

• 3:03:19Speaker 04

  It's one of the great cities to dine in, in the world.

• 3:03:22Sean Fennessey?

  I've never been to South America. I really wanna go.

• 3:03:25Speaker 04

  Help yourselves. Lima's a great place to start.

• 3:03:27Sean Fennessey?

  Interesting. Uh, Amanda, thank you. Do you feel like you've done yeoman's work today? Yeowoman's work?

• 3:03:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure. I think I got my major points across, you know?

• 3:03:38Amanda Dobbins?

  All you can hope for.

• 3:03:40Sean Fennessey?

  Thanks to our producer, Jack Sanders, for his work on this episode. Thanks to Lucas Cavanagh for production support.

• 3:03:45Speaker 04

  Thanks, Jack and Lucas.

• 3:03:47Sean Fennessey?

  Later this week, Here Comes the Bride. We'll see you then.

• 3:04:09Speaker 01

  This is US Bank's Cozy Cash Formations with your chief financial playmaker, Fernando Mendoza.

• 3:04:16Speaker 07

  You are worthy of financial security. Budgeting is not restriction, it's freedom. You are smart. You are capable. You are giving your money a purpose. You are learning the language of saving, of growing. Now streaming. Member FDIC, copyright 2026 US Bank.

• 3:04:40Speaker 08

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