549 - Let’s Action!

In honor of the 25th anniversary of 9/11, Karen covers the Heroes of the 88th Floor. For our sources, please visit https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes. Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3UFCn1g. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode. Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder http://instagram.com/myfavoritemurder Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder http://facebook.com/myfavoritemurder TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder http://tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder Send your hometown stories to [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. Join the Fan Cult to access ad-free episodes of My Favorite Murder. Members also receive merch store discounts, exclusive audio and video content and more! Visit www.fancult.supercast.com http://www.fancult.supercast.com/ to join. Shop for My Favorite Murder and other Exactly Right merchandise here: www.exactlyrightstore.com http://www.exactlyrightstore.com/. Rate, review and follow My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to listen. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This is Exactly Right.

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  911, what's your emergency?

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• 1:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Hello and welcome.

• 1:50Georgia Hardstark?

  To My Favorite Murder.

• 1:51Karen Kilgariff?

  That's Georgia Hardstark.

• 1:52Georgia Hardstark?

  That's Karen Kilgariff.

• 1:53Karen Kilgariff?

  And we're here to present to you a podcast.

• 1:56Georgia Hardstark?

  With five beverages.

• 1:57Karen Kilgariff?

  See how many we can drink.

• 1:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Go.

• 2:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Chug, chug your caffeine. I have been kind of chugging coffee all day. Then I find myself in kind of a pit of despair. And, you know, like when you're just kind of like, why? And then it's like, because you've only had coffee and it's 4:00 PM.

• 2:15Georgia Hardstark?

  How is it 4:00 PM and I've only had coffee and an Uncrustable? Like, this doesn't, this isn't.

• 2:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Who's keeping track of me?

• 2:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Are you a baby?

• 2:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Why won't anyone keep track of me?

• 2:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Why can't I nourish myself?

• 2:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Why does it slip my mind to do the thing I've had to do for 50-plus years in a row? Slips my mind. Lunch is a-

• 2:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Like showering?

• 2:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Showering's hard, lunch is harder.

• 2:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I mean, it's just day after day. Like, every day, at the end of the day, when Vince and I are like, what are we having for dinner? And it's like, we decided yesterday.

• 2:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 2:44Georgia Hardstark?

  We did this.

• 2:45Karen Kilgariff?

  It's that the rest of the time. Beef stroganoff forever.

• 2:49Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm so sick of chewing. Like, it's just every day is chewing, you know?

• 2:54Karen Kilgariff?

  What else sucks?

• 2:56Georgia Hardstark?

  I think this is called depression.

• 2:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Or are we just venting it as in our artistic process before we really give people what they need? Because I think it's like, it is important to say, here in Los Angeles, no one can drive. Three different cars tried to kill other cars on my way here.

• 3:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, wow.

• 3:15Karen Kilgariff?

  In a way where at the third one, I was like, I gotta get off this street.

• 3:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus.

• 3:19Karen Kilgariff?

  It's just people veering.

• 3:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Angry.

• 3:21Karen Kilgariff?

  And just over there and honking.

• 3:23Georgia Hardstark?

  I got real angry at a woman on my way here. And I was like, whoa, that was crazy. And I pulled over into a beta blocker. Because I was like, that was over the top. Like, that wasn't necessary.

• 3:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Are we checking your levels on those beta blockers? We need to make sure your liver's okay.

• 3:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Does it fuck up your liver?

• 3:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, those are serious fucking drugs.

• 3:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Really? Oh, well, I stopped drinking so I can do whatever I want to my liver. Now, 74 today, 74 days.

• 3:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Please, I beg you, if you would just listen.

• 3:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God. No, we're just trying to be relatable.

• 3:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Coffee, snacks.

• 3:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Coffee, driving.

• 3:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Drugs and driving.

• 3:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, reality is, we have private planes that take us to our house and to our office.

• 4:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Just like a Jenner. That'd be incredible. Where would the commute you would most wish you could get private plane to in Los Angeles?

• 4:10Georgia Hardstark?

  I want to go to the beach, and I won't ever do it. Or like, the coast.

• 4:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 4:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Somewhere along there, hiking in Santa Monica Mountains. Like, you just don't do that.

• 4:19Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 4:19Georgia Hardstark?

  It's a fucking schlep, and it's an angry schlep.

• 4:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, it is. And when you get there, the elements are against you.

• 4:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, because it doesn't, yeah, don't get me.

• 4:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 4:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Because it doesn't get, here's the thing about the West Side.

• 4:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Let me quote both of your nephews when I say the 101 to the 110 to the 405.

• 4:38Georgia Hardstark?

  134 to the 405.

• 4:41Karen Kilgariff?

  May I just, all of this goes because who cares about highway talk?

• 4:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Right, it's highway talk with Karen and Georgia.

• 4:48Karen Kilgariff?

  With Karen and Georgia.

• 4:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God, was Car Talk the original podcast?

• 4:52Karen Kilgariff?

  I think so. Because they had like, they talked to the audience. It was real back and forth.

• 4:57Georgia Hardstark?

  It was like, not on video.

• 5:01Karen Kilgariff?

  People, wait a second.

• 5:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 5:03Karen Kilgariff?

  We had a lot of great people talking to us about the death of Dolly Parton.

• 5:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 5:08Karen Kilgariff?

  And what it meant to them. But I just wanted to share a couple, because this is actually kind of supposed to be a short episode.

• 5:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, right.

• 5:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, it's a solo.

• 5:15Georgia Hardstark?

  It's a solo episode. You're gonna go, I went last week, you're gonna go this week.

• 5:18Karen Kilgariff?

  This is mine.

• 5:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 5:20Karen Kilgariff?

  But we thought it would be fun just because there were such good comments. Obviously, many, many, many people loved, admired, respected, if not worshipped her.

• 5:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely.

• 5:30Karen Kilgariff?

  But we got some good ones. We boiled them down to these three.

• 5:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 5:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Sugar Camp Shop from Instagram wrote, "May her memory be a fire lit beneath our asses to do good in the world."

• 5:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow, I love that.

• 5:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Which is, "In this world." I love that, too. It's very true. Somebody posted something that said, "This is a person who broke records in the music industry, like, and listed out the-"

• 5:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 5:53Karen Kilgariff?

  But we're talking about all the good she did for people.

• 5:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally, so amazing.

• 5:56Karen Kilgariff?

  It's really good. Then, Mary Becker from Facebook, she wrote in and said, "There were so many things I didn't know." She was one of the producers of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

• 6:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Really?

• 6:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 6:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Amazing.

• 6:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Her production company, Sand Dollar.

• 6:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 6:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, helped out in that, I guess. And then the last one, which we really loved, Von Nar, G-N-A-R, on Instagram, wrote, "A whole minisode of Dolly encounters would be welcomed, please and thank you."

• 6:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Great idea.

• 6:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Right?

• 6:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Dip a Dolly Parton story.

• 6:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Exactly.

• 6:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Send it to us at myfavoritemurder@gmail, we'll do a minisode dedicated-

• 6:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Did Dolly's butterfly bus break down in front of your home? And she had to come in and eat dinner with you and all your cousins?

• 6:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Did you get one of her baking boxes? And like, you fed your whole family for a week off of it?

• 6:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Did you get sent a free book once a month for your whole childhood? And now because of Dolly Parton, you can read books?

• 6:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God. Who did that? And we were just talking about her the other day. You just went to Dollywood.

• 6:50Karen Kilgariff?

  I know.

• 6:50Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so crazy.

• 6:51Karen Kilgariff?

  "It couldn't have lasted forever. It lasted so long, she was a star forever." And if you think about her, those pictures of her as a little girl, like, her little face? Like, she was meant to be a gigantic star from day one.

• 7:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Gorgeous, but such a kind spirit and soul.

• 7:08Karen Kilgariff?

  And smarty.

• 7:08Georgia Hardstark?

  And so smart.

• 7:09Karen Kilgariff?

  So smart.

• 7:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, so we have a podcast network, just like Dolly Parton had a network. Oh, my God, it's all, it's full circle.

• 7:17Karen Kilgariff?

  We've finally done the thing that we always wanted.

• 7:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, it's called Exactly Right Media.

• 7:21Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 7:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Which is such a great name. I'm so glad you came up with that. Like, really, every time I hear it, I'm like, fuck, yeah.

• 7:26Karen Kilgariff?

  It fits.

• 7:26Georgia Hardstark?

  It does fit, it's perfect. It's great that nothing else was available that we thought of before that.

• 7:31Karen Kilgariff?

  And I know we've talked about this on the show, but we thought of, I would say, 35 different titles before we landed.

• 7:37Georgia Hardstark?

  That were all taken in some way. I think your sister was like, you either called your sister and said, "What about this?" And she was like, "That's it."

• 7:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 7:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Or she suggested it.

• 7:46Karen Kilgariff?

  I can't remember.

• 7:47Georgia Hardstark?

  But she remembers.

• 7:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Lore's behind all of it.

• 7:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 7:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 7:49Georgia Hardstark?

  It's called Exactly Right Media anyways. And here are some highlights.

• 7:53Karen Kilgariff?

  If you love the new podcast, Brief Recession.

• 7:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Which you should.

• 7:56Karen Kilgariff?

  How can you not? You're gonna want to be there for the premiere of The Traitor's New Blood next Thursday, September 17th, so you can watch our own Michael Foot begin his journey to reality TV stardom.

• 8:09Georgia Hardstark?

  He's going to be a fucking star, speaking of stars.

• 8:12Karen Kilgariff?

  He is just the most delightful person. He's like that in real life.

• 8:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 8:17Karen Kilgariff?

  He's exactly what you think he's like.

• 8:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, he's just like Dolly Parton. I'm just gonna do that this entire show.

• 8:23Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 8:23Georgia Hardstark?

  And if you haven't joined the fan cult yet, what are you waiting for? Members get every episode of My Favorite Murder ad-free, plus merch discounts, exclusive content, and access to the Murderin' Discord. Head to fancult.supercast.com to join, please and thank you.

• 8:38Karen Kilgariff?

  And in case you missed it, our own Nick Terry is back with a new MFM animated. This one features Trixie, the pantsless, crispy-faced baby doll that was discovered inside the walls of a 100-year-old house.

• 8:49Georgia Hardstark?

  So good, so good.

• 8:51Karen Kilgariff?

  You can watch Trixie and the rest of the MFM animated gang over at youtube.com/ExactlyRightMedia.

• 9:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 9:02Karen Kilgariff?

  All right.

• 9:03Georgia Hardstark?

  So this is a solo. So excited.

• 9:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Sit back.

• 9:06Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm gonna get cozy.

• 9:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Take some sips of water. So this show comes out on September 10th. I saw a TikTok about these heroes from September 11th.

• 9:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 9:16Karen Kilgariff?

  And I sent it to Marin and she looked up. She's like, I love this story so much.

• 9:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 9:21Karen Kilgariff?

  So we are approaching the 25th anniversary of 9/11.

• 9:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus.

• 9:26Karen Kilgariff?

  So today, I'm gonna tell you one of the many incredible stories of heroism that took place on one of the darkest days in American history. It's Tuesday, September 11th, 2001. It's a beautiful late summer morning in New York City. And 49-year-old architect Frank DiMartini has just arrived at work. He's a construction manager for the Port Authority. And that's the entity that manages all of the trains and the harbors and the buses and the bridges and the bus terminals and all the other kind of travel elements that take place between New York and New Jersey. And that is the entity that developed the World Trade Center. Frank's been working for them since just after the 1993 terrorist bombing. And that happened in one of the World Trade Center's basements. I don't know if you remembered that.

• 10:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 10:11Karen Kilgariff?

  But it was like, yeah. So Frank was hired then to assess structural damage. It was a temporary gig that it led to a permanent one. Frank's wife Nicole saying, quote, "He fell in love with the buildings. For him, they represented an incredible human feat. He was awed by their scale and magnitude, by the innovative design features and by the efficiency of the use of materials." End quote. Nicole DiMartini is in her early 40s. She's also an architect. And she first met Frank in design school. They had since been married. Now they have two children and a home in Fort Greene, Brooklyn. And Nicole works for the engineering company that built the World Trade Center. And her office is in the South Tower on the 35th floor. But this morning, she's with Frank in the North Tower at his office

• 10:56Karen Kilgariff?

  because their commute went quicker than expected. There was light traffic and a seamless drop off at the kids' school. So they got to work at 8:15. And they're 45 minutes early. You know, they both start work at 9:00. So Nicole decides she's gonna spend the next half hour with her husband. She'll later say, quote, "We were in his office and had a cup of coffee and discussed typical, everyday life kind of things." And that's when the plane struck just above us.

• 11:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus.

• 11:22Karen Kilgariff?

  So it's 8:46 a.m. on September 11th, and a Boeing 767 crashes into the North Tower at floors 93 through 99. This is about 50 feet above where Frank and Nicole are sitting at the time.

• 11:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 11:37Karen Kilgariff?

  This is the story of the evacuation of the World Trade Center's North Tower and all the acts of courage and selflessness that saved so many lives that day. And the main sources used today are the book 102 Minutes by Jim Dwyer and Kevin Flynn and the documentary 9/11: Heroes of the 88th Floor. And the rest of the sources are in our show notes. So it's 8:46. We're in Frank's office. Frank and Nicole hear this huge boom. They feel a jolt. And then they see flames and debris just spilling down the side of the building outside of Frank's office windows. Then the power cuts out. So they go out into the hallway. And that's where everybody is congregating from the 88th floor. There's about between 30 and 40 people,

• 12:22Karen Kilgariff?

  all trying to figure out what's going on, talking to each other. Some people are saying they think a generator exploded on the upper floor or that the North Tower water pump that's known to malfunction is somehow exploded. Some people say it's a bomb, but no one really knows. And no one's really panicking.

• 12:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 12:41Karen Kilgariff?

  This building is designed to absorb serious shock. And this group knows that better than most.

• 12:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 12:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Because after that terrorist attack in 1993, they learned it was the heavy smoke that pulled in the emergency stairwells that presented the most danger to evacuee safety, more than actual structural damage.

• 12:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Interesting.

• 12:59Karen Kilgariff?

  And in the years since 1993, they started having fire drills, training employees to gather on their floors or a couple floors down, depending if theirs is directly affected by something like fire, and to wait for further instructions over the building's emergency intercom system versus just running out and immediately evacuating.

• 13:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 13:18Karen Kilgariff?

  So in these hazy, surreal first moments of the September 11th terrorist attack, many people just wait for those updates. They're just standing around, waiting to see. They don't know communications have been completely hobbled by this plane's impact on the building. And so crucial minutes tick by with no word from the building's fire safety directors. They just don't hear anything.

• 13:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Also, I think all the kids, it's so crazy that someone could be 25 years old and not have experienced 9/11.

• 13:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 13:45Georgia Hardstark?

  You know?

• 13:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 13:47Georgia Hardstark?

  But that we didn't text message then. Like, if we did, it was like very basic stuff.

• 13:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, alphanumeric.

• 13:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 13:53Karen Kilgariff?

  It was impossible to text.

• 13:55Georgia Hardstark?

  T9. And you just didn't do it. It just didn't.

• 13:57Karen Kilgariff?

  It took forever.

• 13:58Georgia Hardstark?

  And you couldn't get on the internet from your phone.

• 14:00Karen Kilgariff?

  There was CNN, obviously, breaking news. But it didn't go the way it goes now.

• 14:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 14:04Karen Kilgariff?

  It was 25 years ago.

• 14:06Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so fucking crazy.

• 14:07Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so surreal. Speaking of those people that weren't around at this time, we have a picture of what the skyline in New York City looked like, especially down there.

• 14:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Shit, man.

• 14:19Karen Kilgariff?

  That was the normal skyline for so long.

• 14:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 14:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Crazy. So both of the World Trade Towers had 110 floors. The 88th floor, which is where Frank and Nicole are, is only five floors beneath the impact zone, is what they end up calling it, which is everything from the 93rd floor to the 99th floor. So being that close, smoke immediately starts filling the 88th floor. And through the haze, the group can hear someone who's yelling for help. And it turns out, 49-year-old Port Authority Administrative Assistant Elaine Duke, just moments before, when the thousands of gallons of jet fuel ignited in the crash and sent a huge fireball down the elevator shaft, she was standing like steps away from the elevator. And so she was completely engulfed in flames.

• 15:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 15:07Karen Kilgariff?

  And she basically like gets away. People run over. They put the flames out with their hands. All of her clothes have been burned off.

• 15:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 15:17Karen Kilgariff?

  She's just like was in a fireball, essentially, and survived. Elaine's colleague, Doreen Smith, later remembers, quote, "Her hair was still smoking and she was walking around as if she was a zombie. Her clothes were completely blown off and her glasses were blown off." End quote.

• 15:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Holy shit.

• 15:34Karen Kilgariff?

  But she is alive. Now, it's been less than five minutes into this disaster, but smoke is building in the air. And the people on the 88th floor are starting to get scared. But before that fear can bubble over into panic of any kind, Frank DiMartini steps forward. His coworker, Joanne Chicalello, will say, quote, "Frank just appeared. I'm not even sure where he came from. He seemed to immediately assess what needed to be done. He eased everybody's fears." End quote. But I feel like Frank is a classic civil servant, where he's like, he's the guy that has to go in like on the city street and go, here's the problem. How do we fix it?

• 16:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 16:14Karen Kilgariff?

  And those guys are always those guys.

• 16:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 16:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Where it's like, don't let people stand around and theorize what they think might have happened.

• 16:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's action.

• 16:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 16:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's action?

• 16:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's action, Frank-style. So Frank speaks to the group in a calm, even voice as he shepherds Elaine, who's just been terribly burned. And they actually give her a sweater so that she can like have clothes on.

• 16:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 16:36Karen Kilgariff?

  It's not bad. His wife Nicole and the 30 or so coworkers that are standing around. And he shepherds them into the biggest, least smoky office they can find that's on the southern side of the building because the plane struck the north face. And when they get in there, Frank asks if anyone else is hurt or if anyone else needs help. And it turns out, his own secretary, 56-year-old Judith Reese, she signals she does. She has asthma and she's struggling to breathe. So Frank finds some emergency flashlights and he hands them out to the group. He has a walkie-talkie on him that he keeps trying to use to communicate with like the ground.

• 17:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 17:13Karen Kilgariff?

  But all the Port Authority reps are trying to communicate at the same time. And basically, everybody needs medical attention.

• 17:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 17:20Karen Kilgariff?

  So many people are radioing in at the same time that no one can get through.

• 17:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 17:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Down in the lobby, first responders are flooding into the building. Carrying 60 pounds of equipment on their backs, they begin to work their way up the smoky stairwells. These stairwells are pitch black. There's no emergency lighting. There's none of the normal things that would be taking place in like a fire in one of the offices or whatever.

• 17:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 17:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Those things aren't happening. So the firemen are going up as people are trying to evacuate down from all from the same stairs.

• 17:49Georgia Hardstark?

  In the dark.

• 17:50Karen Kilgariff?

  In the dark, in the smoke. Meanwhile, fire safety directors are attempting to send evacuation orders throughout the building. But of course, they're using those same radios and they can't reach anyone. So now Frank sets off with a small team of colleagues to investigate what is actually going on. Among these are two men who are often described as Frank's best friends, engineer Mac Hannah and construction superintendent Pablo Ortiz. So these guys, they're all around the same age. They're all married with small children. And they all know this building better than almost anybody. And also, there's two other men whose movements aren't as well documented, but they should be mentioned. 41-year-old Carlos DeCosta and 34-year-old Pete Negron.

• 18:33Karen Kilgariff?

  They also step up into this group of let's go out and figure out what's happening. So the 88th floor is 40,000 square feet of office space.

• 18:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus.

• 18:43Karen Kilgariff?

  That's almost an acre of office space.

• 18:45Georgia Hardstark?

  That's enormous. Wow.

• 18:48Karen Kilgariff?

  And so these guys basically move through it as quickly as they can, making sure no one is trapped or stuck somewhere. So they kind of split off, some search for staffers who may have been separated, others go try to figure out what like is happening downstairs or what's going on in general. And as they go, the men see the extensive damage that the building has taken, even on that floor. The ceiling above their main hallway has collapsed completely. The walls around the elevators are gone because of that fireball.

• 19:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 19:17Karen Kilgariff?

  And a fire has broken out on the northeastern side. And as the fire rages on the floors above, the smoke from those flyers pour down and get thicker. This has just been 10 minutes since the impact. Of all the 88th floor's exit routes, which used to include the elevators and three centrally located emergency stairwells, only one of those stairwells is now functional. So Frank and the others get back to the larger group and tell them, we can't wait any longer. We have to go down this stairwell. It's the only one we have. So they send everybody over there as fast as they can. And Joanne Chicalillo says, quote, "Everyone had total trust in whatever he was telling us to do. We were going to do it because we knew he would get us out safely. We just knew it."

• 20:02Georgia Hardstark?

  He's the guy you want on your team.

• 20:04Karen Kilgariff?

  He's the guy. Should we take a look?

• 20:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 20:05Karen Kilgariff?

  This is Frank DiMartini.

• 20:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah. I'll follow him.

• 20:08Karen Kilgariff?

  That guy knows where the flashlights are.

• 20:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 20:11Karen Kilgariff?

  He knows where the correct emergency stairwell is.

• 20:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. He knows how to use a power tool, but he's also like...

• 20:16Karen Kilgariff?

  He's doing big picture stuff.

• 20:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 20:18Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's the kind of thing where he, the rarest experience of, he went in after the 1993 attacks.

• 20:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 20:25Karen Kilgariff?

  And knows things that you couldn't have known.

• 20:30Speaker 01

  911, what's your emergency?

• 20:33Speaker 01

  Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder wantons. 911 Nashville returns.

• 20:40Speaker 02

  What's a homicide detective doing here?

• 20:41Speaker 03

  Three bodies on the ground.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 20:45Speaker 03

  Oh, since swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 20:48Speaker 02

  That's one of the plagues of the Bible.

• 20:50Speaker 03

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  Ryan Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 20:59Speaker 00

  Whether you're buying, renting, or selling, Zillow can help make your someday today to help find a home that fits where you are in life, or that apartment that's a little closer to where you want to be. Zillow has the right information, tools, and support to help turn your future home into a reality. Because someday starts today. Visit zillow.com/today to get started.

• 21:24Speaker 04

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• 21:56Karen Kilgariff?

  So the group, they get over to the stairwell, but they have to climb over mangled building materials and debris to get there. It's not just like we're going to walk across the office.

• 22:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 22:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Elaine and Judith, who are the two people with the most pressing medical issues, are moved to the front of the group. They're being helped out by the colleagues. So this is a long way down to the ground floor.

• 22:16Georgia Hardstark?

  What's the floor again?

• 22:17Karen Kilgariff?

  88.

• 22:18Georgia Hardstark?

  But I've done this in an emergency drill when I worked in an office on the 31st floor.

• 22:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Fire drill?

• 22:25Georgia Hardstark?

  And it fucking took forever. It felt like this is never going to end.

• 22:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 22:28Georgia Hardstark?

  And then it wasn't even an emergency, a real one.

• 22:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 22:31Georgia Hardstark?

  So that sounds...

• 22:32Karen Kilgariff?

  And I would imagine fully lit.

• 22:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, fully lit.

• 22:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Clear air.

• 22:35Georgia Hardstark?

  I wasn't freaking the fuck out.

• 22:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. Yeah. So going down from the 88th floor is more than 1,000 steps. Of course, I said pitch black, no emergency lighting, of course, it's filled with smoke. Frank tells Nicole, his wife, quote, "I'll be right behind you." But instead, he disappears back onto the 88th floor to join Pablo, Mac, Carlos, and Pete, who have all decided they need to do another sweep to make sure that no one is stuck up there before they leave for good. So now it's about 9:00 AM. This is 14 minutes after the North Towers hit, and they finish their search. They head back to the emergency stairwell to start their own descent down and catch up with their group. But as they step into the darkness, they

• 23:21Karen Kilgariff?

  hear banging one flight up.

• 23:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, fuck.

• 23:24Karen Kilgariff?

  It's right on the other side of the heavy door that opens from the stairwell onto the 89th floor. They try to open it. It's jammed. They go back down to the 88th floor. They come back up with a bunch of tools, hard hats, flashlights, and they start hammering at the sheet rock around the doorframe. On the other side of that door, there are employees trapped on the 89th floor, and those workers have the radio on. So they're actually learning the details of what's going on outside.

• 23:51Georgia Hardstark?

  And the door is blocked. The only exit door is blocked.

• 23:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. The only stairwell that will get them out.

• 23:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Shit.

• 23:57Karen Kilgariff?

  So what they know, and what people are starting to learn at this point, is that an airplane struck the North Tower and what they believe to be a terrible accident. Everybody at first thinks it's a terrible accident.

• 24:07Georgia Hardstark?

  This is when my grandma woke me up. Like, something happened.

• 24:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. That's when you lived with her?

• 24:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Mm-hmm. Yeah. I was 21.

• 24:15Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so long ago.

• 24:16Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 24:17Karen Kilgariff?

  And yet, it truly is like absolutely last week.

• 24:20Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 24:20Karen Kilgariff?

  When you talk about it in this way.

• 24:22Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 24:23Karen Kilgariff?

  It was such a weird experience. It's like the world stopped and we all sat there watching it like roll out second by second.

• 24:30Georgia Hardstark?

  And it feels like everything since then has been kind of bad, too. Like, we've all gotten in a lot of trauma from that day that we just have not talked about. And the same way COVID, I think, is someday going to be the same thing, where it's like, how has it been this long? Have we even talked about it or gotten over it?

• 24:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 24:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Not yet.

• 24:46Karen Kilgariff?

  The trauma piles, they're piling and piling.

• 24:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely.

• 24:49Karen Kilgariff?

  They think that until 9:03 AM, 17 minutes into the disaster, when the second plane hits the South Tower of the World Trade Center. It's now clear that this is a deliberate attack. We're back in the stairwell now, outside of the 89th floor, and Pablo actually manages to pry the door open with a crowbar. The men rush onto the 89th floor. They split up into smaller groups. Unfortunately, this is where we lose any other information about Pete or Carlos.

• 25:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 25:17Karen Kilgariff?

  But Frank and Pablo stick together from here on out, and then Mac basically kind of joins them and is in and out and, you know, stays in touch essentially. A graphic designer named Thomas Haddad remembers the moment that these men burst into his office. He says, quote, "We followed them out to a stairwell door. I was the last one on 89. The two gentlemen from the Port Authority were standing on the landing of the stairs, and everyone else from our group had already started down. The two of them were contemplating following us, and one turned to the other and said, no, let's go up. I think there's more people upstairs."

• 25:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 25:54Karen Kilgariff?

  And those two men are Frank DiMartini and Pablo Ortiz. Later, Pablo's ex-wife, Maureen, will explain in an interview that Pablo is a former Navy SEAL. And she says, quote, "I believe that the Vietnam War was the thing that really changed his life. You could just see how hurt he was that he lost so many people. He couldn't help them. There was no way in which he was going to let anyone around him get hurt this time."

• 26:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 26:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. End quote. So then Nicole DiMartini, meanwhile, describes her husband Frank as, quote, "Not an ordinary person. For him to make that choice to go up rather than go down was just really part of his personality. It was in him. He just had to do it."

• 26:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, you want to think you'd be a hero or like a good person in that moment. Not that it's not a good person to run, but I think most of us would run.

• 26:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Absolutely. That's survival instinct.

• 26:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. To go in and to try to help people is just...

• 26:46Karen Kilgariff?

  It's big.

• 26:46Georgia Hardstark?

  You don't see it because you're not in that situation very often. And then when it happens...

• 26:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. Well, and that's the thing of, I don't want to give my dad any more credit than he deserves.

• 26:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 26:57Karen Kilgariff?

  But that's the whole job, is like, they joke around and have fun and make dinners and bullshit, and then they run into burning buildings to save people to get them out.

• 27:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 27:06Karen Kilgariff?

  It's wild. And then, of course, we all know what the FDNY did on this day and the sacrifices that they made and how they just, it was like not even a second thought. That's what they're going to do.

• 27:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 27:17Karen Kilgariff?

  So by 9:14 AM, this is 30 minutes after the impact, Frank and Pablo have made it up to the 90th floor, where they free another group of trapped workers. So they are making it up, and actually, there's people that need their help. It's wild. When they climb up the stairwell to the 91st floor, that's just two floors under the impact zone, they find there's no way to get inside. Now we know that no one above the 91st floor will make it out of that tower that day.

• 27:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus.

• 27:44Karen Kilgariff?

  In the book 102 Minutes, authors Kevin Flynn and Jim Dwyer write, quote, "Above the 91st floor, the stairways were plugged solid, the collapsed drywall forming an impermeable membrane, a borderline that could not be crossed, even for people on the 92nd and 93rd floors, most of which had not been touched by the plane impact."

• 28:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Fuck. Oh, my God.

• 28:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. So Frank and Pablo-

• 28:08Georgia Hardstark?

  I need another one of those beta blockers.

• 28:10Karen Kilgariff?

  What's that?

• 28:10Georgia Hardstark?

  I need another one of those beta blockers. I'm sweating.

• 28:13Karen Kilgariff?

  We gotta process it there. You can't beta-block your way through the worst thing that ever happened.

• 28:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Truly.

• 28:18Karen Kilgariff?

  And also, there's people, we know people who like lived through it right up close.

• 28:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 28:24Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, like, people live through these things.

• 28:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 28:26Karen Kilgariff?

  So Frank and Pablo are forced to concede that they can't evacuate anyone further up. So they start looking for those in need on their way back down. Below, their friends and colleagues are still trying to get down the stairs and out of the building. But as they're pushing forward, more people are filtering into the stairwell from the other floors. And firefighters are continually rushing up the stairs past them. So there's bottlenecks, and of course, there's terrible surprises around every turn. Some floors, there's so much heavy damage, they have to actually get out of the stairwell and cross through office space to go to other stairwells, hoping they will be open. So it's like, this one was blocked to here, but now maybe we can go down here.

• 29:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 29:08Karen Kilgariff?

  And as they do that, they're crossing office areas that are, some of them are flooded, some of them are burning, some have exposed wire popping around. I mean, it's like a bad, it's worst-case scenario.

• 29:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 29:20Karen Kilgariff?

  So Mac is among this crowd of evacuees because he's split off from his friends on the 88th floor because he helped a man named Mo Lipson, who is 89 years old.

• 29:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 29:30Karen Kilgariff?

  So he's basically shepherding Mo and making sure that he's got the help he needs. So now, it's 9:30, it's about 45 minutes after the impact. Mac is still making his way downstairs, and so is Judith Reese, Frank's secretary. But because of her asthma and her breathing, she's having a terrible time. Her colleague Anita Sarpe says, quote, "It was very difficult for her to breathe because of the smoke. It was very difficult for her to walk. She was very scared. Her face, you could just see she was in pain from the breathing and trying to walk, and knowing that she was delaying us from getting downstairs."

• 30:05Georgia Hardstark?

  God.

• 30:05Karen Kilgariff?

  So the pressure of, like, holding people up-

• 30:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely.

• 30:09Karen Kilgariff?

  -is horrible. But some people from the 88th floor have actually finally made it down to the ground level already, including Elaine Duke, the woman who was critically burned. She's immediately rushed to the hospital, and there, they believe her prognosis to be so bad that she's actually given last rites by a priest.

• 30:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 30:29Karen Kilgariff?

  But somehow, miraculously, she recovers. She spends four months in the hospital, and then she's released.

• 30:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus.

• 30:36Karen Kilgariff?

  So she actually makes it through.

• 30:38Georgia Hardstark?

  That's amazing.

• 30:39Karen Kilgariff?

  And Frank's wife, Nicole, also makes it outside. But Frank isn't right behind her like he said he would be. And she will later say, quote, "Frank was certainly not going to come down with me. He wanted to make sure everybody else was coming down first. I knew he'd be the last person to come down. It was difficult."

• 30:57Georgia Hardstark?

  God, I bet.

• 30:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. And this killed me when I read this line. So Nicole just starts walking toward the Brooklyn Bridge, away from the disaster area, which was the footage that we saw, like, in California-

• 31:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 31:09Karen Kilgariff?

  -of just streams of people on foot crossing the Brooklyn Bridge to get away.

• 31:13Georgia Hardstark?

  No other option, just like to walk towards home-ish.

• 31:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. Or just to walk where other people are.

• 31:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Right, away.

• 31:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Just try to get somewhere over there, essentially. Moments later, at 9:59, the South Tower collapses.

• 31:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, God.

• 31:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Nicole says, quote, "I could not look back. I could not look back. I heard people around me going, 'Oh, my God, oh, my God, look what happened.'" People turning around, people looking, and I just could not look. I kept walking.

• 31:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, she's knows, I mean, wow.

• 31:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, horrifying.

• 31:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 31:50Speaker 01

  911, what's your emergency? Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder warrants. 911 Nashville returns.

• 32:00Speaker 02

  What's a homicide detective doing here?

• 32:02Speaker 03

  Three bodies on the ground.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 32:06Speaker 03

  All since warmth upon you and upon your people.

• 32:09Speaker 02

  That's one of the places for a Bible.

• 32:10Speaker 03

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 32:20Speaker 00

  Whether you're buying, renting, or selling, Zillow can help make your someday today to help find a home that fits where you are in life, or that apartment that's a little closer to where you want to be. Zillow has the right information, tools, and support to help turn your future home into a reality. Because someday starts today. Visit zillow.com/today to get started.

• 32:45Speaker 04

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of 5-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 33:15Karen Kilgariff?

  For the evacuees still making their way down the North Tower, everything goes from bad to worse now. Hot debris-filled smoke is rising up in the stairwell, making things even darker. And it's deafeningly loud. Thomas Hadad, who is the graphic designer from the 89th floor, he will say, quote, "If you could imagine a sound that's so loud that it's quiet, that's what it was. There was so much sound that you couldn't hear a thing."

• 33:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 33:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 33:45Georgia Hardstark?

  I didn't think about that.

• 33:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Because you're in this reverberating stairwell, and then there's an explosion.

• 33:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 33:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Remaining evacuees are frozen in place for several minutes before they're able to continue down. And Frank's secretary Judith Reese is among them. She's already having to stop and rest, but her Port Authority colleague, Jeffrey Gertler, refuses to leave her, even as the stairwells thin out more and more people are able to evacuate.

• 34:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 34:10Karen Kilgariff?

  He's not going down. When they get to the 12th floor, Judith starts to panic, right as a group of firefighters appears. Jeffrey remembers, quote, "They said, 'We're gonna carry her down.' I said, 'Judith, we're gonna walk with you. Don't worry. When we get down to street level, I'll be with you.' And the fireman who is in charge steps up close to me and says, 'You don't understand. The building is going to collapse, and if you don't start down those stairs, I'm gonna throw you down those stairs.'"

• 34:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 34:38Karen Kilgariff?

  They knew they were going into a building that was going down. Minutes later, Jeffrey makes it out of the building. He turns and waits to see Judith coming out behind him. Meanwhile, Mac, who's helping 89-year-old Mo get down the stairs, is also still fighting his way outside. At 10:22 AM, Mo and Mac finally reach the ground level. Mac says, quote, "I was carrying Mo out at the time because the lobby itself was completely damaged. All the chandeliers, all the stores in the lobby were completely damaged, and water was almost one foot deep. As soon as I came out of the building, I was shouting at the police on the other side of the West Side Highway, telling them, 'I am exhausted. I am tired. I am carrying a man.'" It is 10:28 AM.

• 35:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Then, without fully understanding what's happening around him, Mac feels his feet hit the pavement, and suddenly, he's running as fast as he can to escape a tidal wave of debris billowing behind him. The North Tower has now collapsed. Some sources say that Mac and Mo were the last two people to get out of the North Tower alive.

• 35:45Georgia Hardstark?

  No way.

• 35:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm. But of course, we can't know that for sure. That's like theory.

• 35:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, because it's so scary that, like, once you get out of the tower, there's still threat of debris falling on top of you, and then the building collapsing. Like, God.

• 35:59Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so monumental, and also, just nothing anyone, like, it's so interesting, his memory of that, where it's like, suddenly, I was running. He's not making decisions. This is, he's survival instinct entirely.

• 36:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Right, because this isn't something that anyone's experienced to this level.

• 36:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. So they know that basically about 3,000 people were killed in the terror attacks of September 11th. And among them are Judith Reese, Carlos Takosta, Pete Negron, Pablo Ortiz, and Frank DiMartini, who are all believed to have died when the North Tower collapsed. We know nothing of their final moments, except that Pablo and Frank were last seen on the 78th floor, attempting to rescue more people.

• 36:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 36:45Karen Kilgariff?

  So of those five courageous men from the 88th floor, only Mac Hanna survives. And obviously, and of course, his life is profoundly changed.

• 36:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 36:54Karen Kilgariff?

  But in kind of an interesting way, he actually enters the priesthood in 2005.

• 36:59Georgia Hardstark?

  No way.

• 37:00Karen Kilgariff?

  And now his father, Mark Hanna-

• 37:01Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 37:02Karen Kilgariff?

  -he devotes his life to helping others.

• 37:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 37:05Karen Kilgariff?

  So here's him-

• 37:06Georgia Hardstark?

  The, like, idea that such a catastrophe could happen and, like, still believe.

• 37:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 37:10Georgia Hardstark?

  And I know it's fucked up to say, but-

• 37:12Karen Kilgariff?

  No, well, from his perspective, it's like, he got out.

• 37:15Georgia Hardstark?

  He survived, yeah.

• 37:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 37:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 37:16Karen Kilgariff?

  And he helped people, and he saved people, and it's like, that's what I should be doing.

• 37:20Georgia Hardstark?

  There's a reason.

• 37:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 37:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 37:22Karen Kilgariff?

  In a 2021 interview, Father Mark Hanna mentions he still hasn't been able to visit the World Trade Center Memorial or anything at Ground Zero. But he does say, quote, "I pray to do it before I pass away to honor my friends."

• 37:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 37:37Karen Kilgariff?

  And Mo, the old man that Mac evacuated-

• 37:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 37:41Karen Kilgariff?

  -he survived getting out.

• 37:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 37:43Karen Kilgariff?

  He ended up passing away in 2008 at the age of 96.

• 37:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 37:47Karen Kilgariff?

  So it's believed that that group of men from the 88th floor saved at least 50 people.

• 37:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 37:54Karen Kilgariff?

  And maybe as many as 77 people from the upper floors of the North Tower on 9/11. It's also said that their selflessness and courage had an immediate downstream effect on the people that they were evacuating. It set this tone of courage and kindness for everybody making that terrifying descent to the ground level. They offered each other help. They cared for or sat with the injured. People were singing songs to keep everyone's spirits up. When they could hear people trapped behind doors, they did everything they could to get them out. Like, those guys really led by example. And it's all, of course, left the men's loved ones with very complicated feelings.

• 38:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 38:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Nicole says, quote, "I sort of knew that Frank did not make it out. I did not want to believe it, but I had a feeling that he did not make it out at the time. It must have been several weeks later when we discovered what Frank had done. I was certainly surprised to find out how many people he saved in that relatively short time. It's wonderful that he saved so many people's lives, but he couldn't save his life, and his life was important in my life."

• 38:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, God.

• 39:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. That's the thing about guys like that.

• 39:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, like I'm picturing Vince and I'm like, don't do it. Don't be a hero. Come with me. I need you, you know?

• 39:09Karen Kilgariff?

  I know, but guys like that, they're too attuned to the good of the group and the world.

• 39:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Which is what it is to be human.

• 39:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. And it also is kind of like, those instincts are developable.

• 39:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 39:25Karen Kilgariff?

  And I wouldn't know, but it probably feels great to have to develop them.

• 39:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 39:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Because then you're kind of like, well, I'll take care of it, or maybe I can take care of it.

• 39:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, I'm sure you have that on some level, growing up, watching your dad do exactly that as a fireman.

• 39:40Karen Kilgariff?

  True, but I mean, I'm scared of fire. That's why I lit that bed on fire.

• 39:46Georgia Hardstark?

  But in general, like, you know, I think, I bet you're great in an emergency.

• 39:51Karen Kilgariff?

  I think I might be.

• 39:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 39:53Karen Kilgariff?

  And I think that's also the, growing up in the seventies, where it always was an emergency. So it's like, oh, this.

• 39:58Georgia Hardstark?

  And like, take care of your fucking cell.

• 40:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Got it. You know what this made me think of also is, they are talking about her, she's saying, I sort of knew he didn't make it out, but remember, like, they didn't know if people made it out or not.

• 40:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 40:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Remember there was all those bulletin boards and all that stuff downtown?

• 40:16Georgia Hardstark?

  There were all these missing persons posters that people were putting up of their loved ones as like, and then looking through hospitals to try to identify someone who's unconscious, maybe didn't have their ID on them.

• 40:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 40:26Georgia Hardstark?

  That was so heartbreaking.

• 40:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Just waiting to see. So for all the people that had this terrible loss, they also had to go through weeks or maybe months of just not knowing.

• 40:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 40:37Karen Kilgariff?

  And then there's some people who never knew because nobody can account for the missing. It's, it's a lot to think about. So Maureen, who was Pablo's ex-wife, has said something similar about losing Pablo, that quote, "We were in denial. We didn't believe that he was dead. I felt proud of him, certainly very proud of him, that he did what he felt he had to do, and miserable and angry at the same time."

• 41:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 41:02Karen Kilgariff?

  End quote. Yeah. One of the men that Pablo Ortiz saved is Thomas Haddad from the 89th floor. And he said, quote, "I can see their faces as if it was yesterday in my mind. They are my heroes. They're the reason I can continue to have a life of any kind."

• 41:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 41:19Karen Kilgariff?

  But Pablo Ortiz's ex-wife, Maureen, also talks about how connected she feels to the 50-plus, maybe even in the seventies, amount of human lives that her husband saved. She adds, quote, "They actually had the last moments of his life. To me, I think they each have a part of him living in them.

• 41:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 41:40Karen Kilgariff?

  My kids lost their father, but we became a family." End quote.

• 41:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 41:46Karen Kilgariff?

  And that's the story of the men now remembered as the heroes of the 88th floor, Frank DiMartini, Pablo Ortiz, Carlos DiCosta, Pete Negron, and Matt Hannah.

• 41:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow, I had never heard of that.

• 41:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Me either.

• 42:00Georgia Hardstark?

  That's amazing.

• 42:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Isn't that like, in all that darkness, there's a, there's a very small silver lining.

• 42:07Georgia Hardstark?

  I love that because I, when I see a documentary, another documentary about nine 11, I have the hardest time watching it because it's just so triggering and awful in the memories. And then also the mystery around it and the corruption and it's just so awful. But when there's really lovely stories that come out of it, of like, real human bravery.

• 42:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 42:27Georgia Hardstark?

  That's what I want to hear.

• 42:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Right? It's like, those people in that stairwell didn't go, "Out of my way, old lady." Like, that is where stuff like that usually happens and people usually use that as the excuse of, well, there's no women and children first. I had to get out whatever it is. And it sounds like just the opposite is what was going on in that stairwell.

• 42:47Georgia Hardstark?

  It's that Mr. Rogers saying, "Look for the helpers." Is that right?

• 42:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 42:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, great job. Good solo episode for

• 42:53Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean,

• 42:54Georgia Hardstark?

  25th anniversary.

• 42:55Karen Kilgariff?

  The 25th anniversary. Yeah.

• 42:58Georgia Hardstark?

  You weren't living there then, right? No?

• 43:00Karen Kilgariff?

  No, no, I was in LA.

• 43:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 43:02Karen Kilgariff?

  And my sister called and said, uh, "They attacked the White House." And I thought she meant aliens. And I, the beginning of that day was so mind blowing to me. And then I was like, oh, wait, what? And then it was like, it was so strangely real.

• 43:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 43:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, you could feel all of us adjusting to this new reality.

• 43:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. When it's, it felt like a movie and then it didn't anymore because it was reality.

• 43:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 43:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow. Well, good job.

• 43:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you.

• 43:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Good solo.

• 43:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you. Maybe in the spirit of all of that, today, tomorrow, these next couple of days, just try to be the brave one.

• 43:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Aww.

• 43:37Karen Kilgariff?

  See what you can do.

• 43:38Georgia Hardstark?

  I love that. Be nice to people. Maybe? No, don't take that out.

• 43:43Georgia Hardstark?

  What would Dolly do?

• 43:46Karen Kilgariff?

  It's like you hated your own idea. Be nice to people? No.

• 43:50Georgia Hardstark?

  That's too much.

• 43:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Don't be crazy.

• 43:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, but what would Dolly do?

• 43:53Karen Kilgariff?

  What would Dolly do? That, there you go.

• 43:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 43:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Here's what we know Dolly would do. Stay sexy.

• 44:02Georgia Hardstark?

  And don't get murdered.

• 44:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 44:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Elvis, do you want a cookie?

• 44:14Karen Kilgariff?

  This has been an Exactly Right Production.

• 44:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Our managing producer is Molly Smith.

• 44:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Our consulting producer is Kate Schellbach.

• 44:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Our creative lead is Allison Agosti.

• 44:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Our associate producer is Tessa Hughes and our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

• 44:26Georgia Hardstark?

  This episode was mixed by Leona Scolacci.

• 44:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Our researchers are Maren McLaughlin and Ally Elkin.

• 44:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Email your hometowns to [email protected] and follow the show on Instagram at MyFavoriteMurder.

• 44:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 44:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Or watch new episodes every week on Netflix. Search for My Favorite Murder, add us to your list, and hit the double thumbs up button. Goodbye.

• 44:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Calling all amateur detectives and podcast obsessives.

• 45:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Virgin Voyages' second True Crime Voyage sets sail March 20th, 2027, for a five-night escape to Grand Turk and the Beach Club at Bimini.

• 45:10Karen Kilgariff?

  As part of the On Air at Sea collection, this immersive sailing brings together fan favorite podcasts, including Disgrace Land, Buried Bones, and Wisecrack, for live recordings, behind-the-scenes access, exclusive meet and greets, and crime-themed programming that you won't find anywhere else.

• 45:27Georgia Hardstark?

  All aboard our award-winning, kid-free ships.

• 45:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Head over to virginvoyages.com/truecrime to secure your spot.

• 45:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 45:35Speaker 00

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• 46:11Speaker 03

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