“This Keeps You POOR!” Caleb Hammer Reveals The WORST Money Traps To Avoid In 2025

RocketMoney: Cancel your unwanted subscriptions today at https://RocketMoney.com/iced ExpressPros: Get the hiring support you need at https://ExpressPros.com Ramp: Now get $250 when you join Ramp at https://ramp.com/ich Bilt: Start earning Points for the rent you’re ALREADY paying at https://joinbilt.com/icedcoffee Shopify: Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at https://shopify.com/ich NEW: Join us at http://www.icedcoffeehour.club for premium content - Enjoy! Follow and Subscribe to @CalebHammer Caleb Hammer Here! Add us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jlsselby https://www.instagram.com/gpstephan Official Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeBQ24VfikOriqSdKtomh0w For sponsorships or business inquiries reach out to: [email protected] For Podcast Inquiries, please DM @icedcoffeehour on Instagram! Timestamps : 00:00:00 - Intro 00:01:25 - Most upsetting guest 00:02:05 - Valid excuses for failure 00:04:35 - Worst money habits 00:08:22 - Common audit findings 00:08:32 - Why people stay broke 00:09:58 - Discipline vs small purchases 00:10:45 - When small purchases are OK 00:13:29 - Lessons on human nature 00:15:14 - Sponsor - RocketMoney 00:16:53 - Lack of responsibility 00:18:21 - Sympathizing with guests 00:19:24 - Breaking through with guests 00:20:32 - Items keeping people poor 00:22:39 - Accusations of exploitation 00:24:53 - Guest verification process 00:25:34 - Credit card usage mistakes 00:29:09 - Finance improvement tips 00:32:23 - Cash stuffing thoughts 00:32:47 - Are side hustles worth it? 00:34:38 - Tipping without servers 00:36:12 - Sponsor - ExpressPros 00:37:10 - Sponsor - Ramp 00:38:58 - Relating to show guests 00:41:47 - Hardest part of being broke 00:46:24 - Cost of pet insurance 00:49:39 - Your worst financial moment 00:57:54 - Caleb and relationships 01:01:27 - Sponsor - Bilt 01:02:31 - Sponsor - Shopify 01:03:46 - Life goals 01:09:49 - Asking people on dates 01:16:21 - Dating apps 01:18:40 - Finance in relationships 01:19:19 - Who spends more? 01:21:02 - Couple finance advice 01:24:05 - Victim mentality 01:26:45 - Thumbnail complaints 01:29:43 - Caleb's business growth 01:32:27 - Revenue streams 01:39:29 - Fear of dying poor 01:44:06 - Handling criticism 01:49:08 - Quitting YouTube *Some of the links and other products that appear on this video are from companies which Graham Stephan will earn an affiliate commission or referral bonus. Graham Stephan is part of an affiliate network and receives compensation for sending traffic to partner sites. The content in this video is accurate as of the posting date. Some of the offers mentioned may no longer be available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 0:26Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 0:55Speaker 02

  It only takes a couple of things to be successful.

• 0:57Speaker 03

  What are those things? Why'd you get into the debt in the first place? Bought a car for no reason. No, no, no, no.

• 1:03Graham Stephan?

  You really become the Gordon Ramsay of personal finance.

• 1:07Speaker 02

  Why'd you get laid off?

• 1:08Speaker 05

  Uh.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  You scared all the dogs with your laugh?

• 1:10Speaker 05

  That wasn't very nice.

• 1:12Speaker 03

  Makes sense.

• 1:14Jack Selby?

  What do you find to be the common thing keeping most people broke? It's only five bucks, so.

• 1:18Speaker 02

  5% interest, yes! A lot of people don't understand how interest actually works. You guys have so many cars. There's $2,000 of Disneyland tickets after that. Another ticket. What is happening? Anytime anyone just sits and it's just like they won't take responsibility for literally one thing, that pisses me off. No, no, no, no, objectively, no. First document, right here. And what I always try to tell people when they're not willing to change on the show, I'm just like, okay, go do it. I don't care. But I'm having the conversation of here's what you should do to actually get your finances in order.

• 1:55Speaker 02

  Is it true you're really gonna quit YouTube?

• 2:04Graham Stephan?

  Caleb, thank you so much for coming on the Iced Coffee Hour. Really appreciate it.

• 2:07Speaker 02

  Thanks, guys. Welcome back to Austin. I always love having my dudes in town.

• 2:11Graham Stephan?

  Thank you. We always have a lot of fun and it's interesting because over the last year, you've really become the Gordon Ramsay of personal finance.

• 2:19Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 2:19Graham Stephan?

  And I'm curious, what guest have you had on that's made you the most upset?

• 2:24Speaker 02

  Ooh, having the Tequito Man himself back, Britten Davey, coming on, trying to pretend like the whole thing is a victim complex, everything that, all the choices that he's making. Anytime anyone just sits and it's just like they won't take responsibility for literally one thing, everything is against them and they have no control, which is his ultimate mindset and everything. That pisses me off and that's what pissed me off about him. People can insult me all day. People can insult me all day and he tried, he tried, people try. But that's what upsets me when people just refuse to take at least one ounce of responsibility.

• 3:00Graham Stephan?

  All right. Now, I'm curious, what is outside of someone's control that you think, when they say that, okay, you know what, this person does have a point?

• 3:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. I mean, mental health things is a huge thing, right? So there are some mental health things, of course. That's where you're like, okay, well, what should I do? I should probably go see someone, you know, I should probably, you know, see an expert, talk to people around me, try to surround myself with a good community. But that's something you might not have control over, you know, maybe you don't have a good family, you know? We did have one person that was raised in the orphanage community.

• 3:36Speaker 02

  I guess there's no parent and they were never adopted and they kind of just got dropped off in a town at 18. So that was, that was, he was on his own from there and that he didn't have control over, he didn't have control if he was going to get adopted or if he was raised by loving parents. So he didn't really, he doesn't have that community, but, you know.

• 3:54Speaker 02

  We live in the world where if that happens, whatever you're dealt with, that is kind of what you have to deal with. And then what you choose to do from there is still kind of up to you. But obviously, we should support each other and help each other. And that's what we try to do for him. And we've connected him to resources and we're in his corner whenever he has any questions. Um, yeah. So being raised, of course, there's been some people that have had family trauma, everything childhood related, related, I feel like is like, that's what's beyond control. Um, obviously, natural disaster stuff that feels like beyond your control, but also make sure you have the right insurances. Like, there are some things you can do more in adulthood that helps alleviate some of the things you can't control necessarily if your company fails and you get laid off, but you can control if you had an emergency fund before that. Can't control if

• 4:38Speaker 02

  your pet gets sick, but you can control if you have pet insurance. So it's more how people are raised and whether or not they have a community. And obviously, there's some addiction things where it's like, yes, you, you see someone who has addiction and you're like, oh, just go get help. It's obviously more complicated than that. So that, I mean, that's just a little extra hand holding, a little extra support. We had one person who was addicted to, uh, drugs of the crystal variant and, you know, ended up going to rehab and we've been, uh, in touch with him, helping him. And we got him set up. Well, actually, there's a promise if he was like clean for a few months, you know, we'd give him some money to help pay off some of the debt and we did that.

• 5:16Graham Stephan?

  That's cool.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, yeah, you know, but obviously it's still more difficult to get out of an addiction thing than just pay off some debt. So, but he still had the control to go to rehab and he made that decision.

• 5:30Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 5:31Jack Selby?

  And what are some of the worst things you've seen people do with their money?

• 5:34Speaker 02

  Well, I've definitely seen people up their relationships by purchasing OnlyFans. That's been interesting. It's the relationship ending things where it's just like, why would you do this?

• 5:44Graham Stephan?

  First of all, how does that come up in an audit? Do they not hide this in their bank statements? Or they go in knowing that like, I'm paying for OnlyFans and my wife is here and you're going to call me out on this? What are they thinking?

• 5:55Speaker 02

  I think we've had a couple of guests now that, uh, they confess to their wife usually, because it's the dude that's getting it. They confess to their wife on the drive over here. They're like, this is gonna come up in the finances. I need to tell you. And yeah, that's dumb. We definitely had, uh, one wife, they're, they all use fake names. So I don't remember anyone's name, but she, she was, she was visibly upset. That the dude I was calling like OnlyFans, OnlyFans, OnlyFans, OnlyFans. The episode we just uploaded today in the host show, now that this is, you know, kind of distant to the host show. Dude and his friends collectively put hundreds of dollars together so they can subscribe to OnlyFans.

• 6:34Jack Selby?

  Graham, you need to get some friends like that. Save you some money. I'm telling you, man.

• 6:37Jack Selby?

  Really? I mean, that's, that's the, that's the way to do it.

• 6:39Graham Stephan?

  I didn't realize I could even do that.

• 6:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:42Jack Selby?

  That's incredible.

• 6:43Graham Stephan?

  Wait, wait, so wait, explain this. So his buddies were pulling money together to do it through him or what was it?

• 6:48Speaker 02

  No, so they could all use one account and subscribe to one of the people.

• 6:50Jack Selby?

  Why would you rather go into debt?

• 6:51Speaker 02

  Instead of individually having to subscribe.

• 6:53Graham Stephan?

  So they have a group account?

• 6:53Speaker 02

  Than you are right now and you have a significant amount and we're about to get into a lot of it.

• 6:57Jack Selby?

  That's genius.

• 6:57Speaker 02

  But why the would you rather go into more instead of just a little bit of adult sacrifice? Yeah, and when she found that out, that was almost really bad for them. Now they say he's clean. However, again, this just got uploaded today. People were reading into the episode and I do not want to make an accusation, but just reading the comments. He claims that he has to go to a store and buy a new charger, a phone charger, because he works on the road three times a week, which blew everyone's mind. We didn't understand.

• 7:26Jack Selby?

  So was it, was it visas or something that he's going?

• 7:28Speaker 02

  Maybe to continue that potential addiction.

• 7:31Graham Stephan?

  Is it an addiction at that point? Or is it just like he has a, he has a, he just enjoys?

• 7:36Speaker 02

  Three times a week, hiding it from the wife. Not, I'm not accusing him of doing that. It is, still don't understand the breaking multiple charges a week, though.

• 7:44Jack Selby?

  So he was saying on the show that it was, you know.

• 7:49Speaker 02

  Chargers.

• 7:49Graham Stephan?

  I feel like that's an, I hate to say it, mainly I hate it. I feel like that's an easy cop out when your wife finds out and be like, no, sorry, I have an addiction. Cause then it's like, now it's not you anymore. It's like, hey, I'm consumed by this addiction.

• 8:00Speaker 02

  Maybe in private.

• 8:01Graham Stephan?

  And that, and that kind of alleviates some of the concern with the wife, some of the rift between them.

• 8:06Jack Selby?

  It's really hard to tell and I'm sure you've had plenty of experiences and we're going to go into it. Between people, actually, should they be taking responsibility for the things that happen to them or should they, they not be? You know what I mean? Like, are they a victim or are they just someone who lacks discipline? It's a very, very hard line to draw.

• 8:22Speaker 02

  A lot of the people, they've just never been called out in their life. You can tell. They just haven't really been called out. So they hear that pushback for the first time, someone really giving them just like, no bullshit. This is what I think. And kind of my more brutalistic way, because I know, you know, I'm my special way with words. And you can see that their immediate instant cope mechanism is well, it's because of this. I've never talked to this. Here's, you know, everything's against me and all stuff. But you can see that start to fade away as we record for like an hour and a half. It starts to fade away and you see a little more acceptance. You see a little more emotion in their face as they really start. We go to document, document, document.

• 9:02Speaker 02

  Almost everyone, almost everyone I talked to after we stopped recording us says that was worse than I thought. They come in thinking it was better than it really was. And they, you can see that in their face throughout the episode. I don't know if that's reflected on camera, but when I'm sitting here.

• 9:18Jack Selby?

  How, how many audits have you filmed now?

• 9:21Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration blog, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up require compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 9:46Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now, then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 10:16Speaker 02

  Dude, I have no idea. We try to film four to five a week.

• 10:19Jack Selby?

  So are, do you think you're in probably the mid hundreds at this point?

• 10:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:23Jack Selby?

  Okay. So after auditing the finances of hundreds of people, what do you find to be the common thing keeping most people broke?

• 10:30Speaker 02

  A lot of people don't understand how interest actually works on their credit cards. And even when they do kind of understand it, since a lot of people, they always say, oh, but I didn't look at it. You know, I don't want to look at it because it's too scary. It's, it's easier to just, you know, let it be and not think about it. I don't know. The like, I called their interest rate out and I'm like, this is 30%. They're like, I thought this was 12%.

• 10:54Jack Selby?

  Do they even know the difference at that point?

• 10:55Speaker 02

  At that point, they do understand, most of them at least understand that difference. Once they at least understand interest every once in a while, I have to explain interest and that's okay. But that's definitely the common thread I see throughout is a lot of people want to bury their head in the sand because it just gets so scary. So they just bury, but then it gets worse and then it ends in the situation where there's been a few guests this year where I don't see anything but bankruptcy being the only option. And you know, those people specifically where I can't figure out anything on the basic level. I, we set them up with a financial advisor that we partner with. That is definitely the common thread is they just put their head in the sand. They're scared and it just ends up getting worse and then they have no idea how bad the debt even is. And not even that, they, they put their head in the sand so much that they will sit here and they'll say,

• 11:39Speaker 02

  no, you'll be having to know that I didn't purchase on that credit card. And I had spent like six months since I purchased on the credit card. I open it, it's like five subscriptions renewing, they have no idea.

• 11:48Jack Selby?

  And are those people, are any of those people that you audit that are in really bad financial situations? Also the type of person to skimp out on small purchases? I feel like you can really draw a line between two kinds of people. The people that are very disciplined with like the small things, I'm not going to go get a coffee. I'm going to not get avocado, I'm not going to get bacon because it's adding a few dollars. And then the other people that are like, ah, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. Do you see a common thread there where like you really don't see that archetype of human that saves on those small things to be really in financial strife?

• 12:15Speaker 02

  I don't see anyone that doesn't get the small purchases. I feel like our show always has the small purchases. And they always think that they're getting, they're going out to eat like once, twice a week. And then I show them that they get a coffee in the morning and then a, you know, a vending machine during the day and then a dinner at night. Almost every day. So it's just the, they think they're not making small purchases, but they do.

• 12:37Graham Stephan?

  Well, what are small purchases? Okay. Because I saw some hate that you got maybe about a month or two ago.

• 12:45Speaker 02

  Spotify.

• 12:46Graham Stephan?

  Was it that? Yeah. I think actually it was. You told someone not to do the Spotify. When they said, listen, it's like $9 a month or $11 a month. It's like the only thing I enjoy. You're like, no, you need to cut everything. You, you have no room for enjoyment.

• 13:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:02Graham Stephan?

  Looking back, do you think that maybe there was some room for enjoyment or no?

• 13:05Speaker 02

  No.

• 13:06Graham Stephan?

  Like it's an all or nothing?

• 13:06Speaker 02

  I give people, uh, it's not all or nothing. I give people all the time, uh, some room. I gave the, the episode we recorded today, I gave her 20 bucks a month for subscriptions. There are people that I do give room on.

• 13:18Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 13:18Speaker 02

  When they have room, when people are literally going to potentially get evicted from an apartment because they only have $50 left after I give them the most conservative budget. They have $50 left on a monthly basis, I think they can listen ads. Now, I mean, do I care if someone gets Spotify specifically? No, it just becomes an example throughout where it's like, hey, we can sacrifice something. It's not about, it's not about Spotify. It's about the example of we can sacrifice. If they want to keep Spotify, they can keep Spotify.

• 13:47Graham Stephan?

  I think your point that I actually agreed with was that they could get Spotify with the ads.

• 13:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:51Graham Stephan?

  Just listen to the ads.

• 13:53Jack Selby?

  Or just YouTube. YouTube has everything that Spotify already has.

• 13:55Speaker 02

  I do YouTube. Apparently the ads are a lot worse on Spotify. The features on premium, apparently you can't even like skip a lot of songs anymore. Things, apparently free Spotify is pretty shitty. But again, it's never been about Spotify. And the reason why we kind of made Spotify kind of like almost a meme to always call out is because people would, were good with me telling them to cut back. And the moment they heard Spotify, they would always perk up and almost be offended that I suggested.

• 14:19Jack Selby?

  Because it seems like the simplest of things that people should be able to afford. Oh, it's just listening to music. It's, it's not even like television. It's just audible. It's auditory. So I feel like really coming after that's like attacking what people like think is like a basic human necessity.

• 14:31Speaker 02

  But it's also cheap.

• 14:33Graham Stephan?

  When you think of over the course of a month, if like, if you're not getting much enjoyment anywhere else in life, but Spotify is giving it.

• 14:38Jack Selby?

  But it's more expensive if you're paying interest on that because you're not paying it off and you're putting it on a credit card.

• 14:42Graham Stephan?

  But even paying 50% interest on $12 a month, like, isn't that bad in the big picture? Like if they work an extra hour at their job.

• 14:50Jack Selby?

  I, I agree, but, but I think you would also probably agree with the sentiment that it's not necessarily about the $9.99 and the 50% of that, but it's the string of actions that follow.

• 14:58Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 14:58Jack Selby?

  Totally. It's like a whole mentality of the $9.99. Oh, it's not a big deal. Oh, the $3 Starbucks is not a big deal. Oh, this isn't a big deal, but it adds up.

• 15:05Speaker 02

  And that, that's why I push back on that.

• 15:06Jack Selby?

  That's why I find it really interesting that you rarely ever see people struggling that are the type to skip out on those small little purchases.

• 15:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:13Jack Selby?

  That's very interesting.

• 15:14Speaker 02

  No, we don't get those people because we only have people on that are struggling and we never have the people who are trying to be frugal on small purchases.

• 15:21Jack Selby?

  What have you noticed about human nature? Not only auditing the finances of hundreds of people, but also just talking to 500 people that open up to you.

• 15:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely some sense of entitlement. And I hate saying that word because a lot of it gets politically charged. You know, when you hear the word entitlement in our culture, it's, you know, politically charged. But a lot of people think that they had a hard day at work, they're entitled to pick up the meal. And sure, they can do it. And what I always try to tell people when they're not willing to change on the show, I'm just like, okay, go do it. I don't care. Go do it. But I'm having the conversation of, oh, here's what you should do to actually get your finances in order. But a lot of people, they really, they had a tired day of work. Oh, you know, maybe make it even more complicated with a little extra school, make it even more complicated by having some kids. And it says,

• 16:10Speaker 02

  they deserve the sweet treat, all that stuff. And I want them to get the sweet treat. I want them to spend 30% of their money on their sweet treat. Once they're out of debt and have a fully funded emergency fund. But I, there's, I've picked up on a lot of that entitlement, thinking that it's more of a deserve than a, let's just put in a little bit of sacrifice, and then let's get all the sweet treats you want. So a lot, yeah, lots of.

• 16:33Graham Stephan?

  Where does that come from?

• 16:34Speaker 02

  Total guess. But just based on how I grew up and based on the culture and probably the consumerism culture, you know, we are median household income in the United States is, or GDP per capita is double the United Kingdom. So it's like, we have that extra money more typically than those other countries to just go blow it on things. We see the commercials, we got everything. It's in our culture. Ah, you get the McDonald's because you want the ice cream, you know? You get it. It's a nice day out. It's just the actual little things. Should have that yearly trip somewhere.

• 17:06Graham Stephan?

  And you know what? Here's the thing. If there's one thing I can't stand, it's wasting money. And we've all done it. We've signed up for subscriptions or things we don't need, we forget about it. And then all of a sudden, it starts charging you every single month, and you're just wasting it without even realizing it. That is when I started using our sponsor, Rocket Money. They allow me to see all my subscriptions in one place, cancel the ones I don't want to use anymore, and keep a lot more money back in my pocket at the end of every month.

• 17:34Jack Selby?

  For those that don't know, Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions. monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Inside Rocket Money's dashboard, you can track all of your spending, create personalized budgets, and even get alerts if your bills go up or if there's unusual activity.

• 17:50Graham Stephan?

  Rocket Money will even try to negotiate bills for you. They can automatically scan your bills to find opportunities to save, and then you could ask them to negotiate them down on your behalf. They'll deal with all the customer service, back and forth, and hassles so that that way you don't have to.

• 18:05Jack Selby?

  And guys, this sounds crazy, but Rocket Money has over 5 million users, and they've saved over $500 million in canceling people's unwanted subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's premium features.

• 18:18Graham Stephan?

  So don't wait. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions today and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. All you gotta do is go to rocketmoney.com/ice today.

• 18:27Jack Selby?

  Seriously, guys, I use Rocket Money. I love it. I recommend it to everybody. They save so much money. It's like a beautiful dashboard. They organize your finances. I couldn't recommend it more. Try it out with the link down below in the description, rocketmoney.com/ice. Thank you so much to Rocket Money for sponsoring this episode. Back to the podcast. I feel really bad saying this. I genuinely do, but it's just my honest, it's my honest thoughts. So obviously, you know, when we have a guest on the show, we research them a lot. So I was watching a ton of your videos. I'd seen a lot in the past, but I'm just like, I would say re-watching a lot of stuff. And I noticed I kept getting very, honestly, kind of upset, like a little angry, because a lot of the guests, like I would not, it'd be rare for me to feel sympathy for them. And I know this sounds awful to say, because these are people in bad situations.

• 19:12Jack Selby?

  They're struggling financially. They're not coming from a good spot. But it seems like, similar to what you said, it's like, oh, because this, oh, because this, because this, because this. And I'm thinking, like, is there no sense of personal responsibility?

• 19:24Speaker 02

  How far did you make it in the episodes, I'm curious?

• 19:26Jack Selby?

  I mean, your episodes are long now, like an hour and a half. So I probably watched six episodes all the way through.

• 19:31Speaker 02

  All the way through. Did you see towards the end, though? I feel, this doesn't happen for all of them, but a lot of them that I see these days, they really start with that, because again, they've never been pushed back on. Also, they've never been on camera. They're literally random people, you know, they're in the audience typically.

• 19:45Jack Selby?

  I do notice a small resolve at the end after being berated, you know, for like-

• 19:50Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Well, it's because again, they've never had it. They also just, we do story times and stuff and you know, to get more context on their life. But once you start getting halfway through the document pile, it really starts to set on them how bad it is, worse than they thought it was. And you can see it after the show and then we filmed the post show and that's an extra 20 minutes and you can just see they're just like, oh, I can't believe how bad that was. I had no idea.

• 20:13Graham Stephan?

  So would you find yourself being sympathetic towards the guests that you have sometimes on your show or what's the general, how do you feel about it?

• 20:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, definitely more sympathy towards the, uh, the uncontrollables that we talked about earlier.

• 20:24Graham Stephan?

  The uncontrollables, absolutely.

• 20:25Speaker 02

  Lots of definitely sympathy towards them. And then, you know, they usually we give them an extra helping hand. But sympathy of, I can't get Chick-fil-A after work.

• 20:38Speaker 02

  A little less. Usually when someone had, when people have kids and they have to cut back on, on, on, you know, special things for the kids, just temporarily. That's definitely where I feel, you know, more of a heart on that. But when it's just a single person just trying to really grind it out for like a year, that's hard for me to, actually I have less sympathy. When, um, we get to the end, we make a budget and they have thousands left over. I'm like, this is just the, there's no reason to be in this kind of debt. You could literally fix this in a few months. And we recorded like four of those in a row a few weeks ago. And I was just like, I had no sympathy at the end. It's like, dude, just fucking do this. This is the dumbest thing in the world that you're not doing.

• 21:17Graham Stephan?

  How, how long does it take to break through to people and what do you have to do to get to that point?

• 21:21Speaker 02

  I start to see it at about 45 minutes, 45 minutes into the episode.

• 21:24Graham Stephan?

  Anything you're doing in particular, or it's just like, you gotta like, keep like chipping away, chipping away in the 45 minutes and they break down.

• 21:31Speaker 02

  That's, that's, that seems to be the philosophy. We, you know, you find the things to relate to them. I, I learned more things about their family, more things about their personal life and you can start relating things to it and the consequences of their actions and who they might be affecting. If I learn they have a kid, you know, I demonstrate that older kid's going to feel morally obligated to take care of them at some point. If they don't actually get their shit together now. Cause I don't think any of us would let our parents literally become homeless, you know, if they don't have retirement. But we didn't choose to come to the world either. So it's like, why put that on your kids? So I find something to relate it to. And then yeah, chipping away and usually about 45 minutes in, we're most of the way through the documents and that's where the numbers really start to stack. So. That is just, I think it's just all that becomes a little overwhelming, good overwhelming,

• 22:15Speaker 02

  hopefully, and you start to see some emotion and they even get quieter in that moment usually. And yeah, that's when they start to be more receptive to things.

• 22:24Graham Stephan?

  So what are the items that are keeping people poor the most that you notice?

• 22:29Speaker 02

  Definitely car loans, big car loans on the show. Some of our, you know, biggest moments are big trucks, big American manly trucks, or someone, you know, they have their Ford F-150. Yeah. At a, you know, seven year, eight year loan, 25% so that they can pick up groceries.

• 22:49Graham Stephan?

  I saw a video, and this is real, this guy got a Lamborghini Gallardo, and he went through his expenses on like, here's how much it costs to buy a Lamborghini Gallardo. Great car, by the way, like fantastic for resale value. I believe he put almost no money down, but he got 140 month car loan on this.

• 23:07Speaker 02

  12 years?

• 23:07Graham Stephan?

  It's about 12 years. And I was thinking like, the average auto loan rate for a used car that's that old, because these cars were built from like 2004 to like, I think it was like 2012, something like that, give or take. But for used cars over four years old, the interest rates have to be minimum 7%, like at the lowest. And I was doing like some backwards calculations to figure out like, how much he's paying in interest over this 12 years? Like, it makes no sense. But

• 23:35Speaker 02

  I want to get that guy on the show.

• 23:36Graham Stephan?

  But he has the car.

• 23:37Speaker 02

  He has the car.

• 23:38Graham Stephan?

  The thing is, is he seemed like a really bright, smart guy.

• 23:41Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 23:42Graham Stephan?

  That was the one thing that threw me for a loop.

• 23:45Speaker 02

  Somehow, though.

• 23:47Graham Stephan?

  There's no way you're getting a

• 23:48Speaker 02

  Not that I would support that.

• 23:49Graham Stephan?

  Better than 6% on a 12 month. It's impossible.

• 23:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's crazy. Should get him on.

• 23:54Jack Selby?

  That would be interesting. I always wondered, it would be kind of cool, rather than people that apply to go on the show, like you just go on the street and just like go up to someone working a McDonald's job or something like that, and just approach them.

• 24:03Speaker 02

  That's so hard.

• 24:03Jack Selby?

  Because that's a little bit more true, I feel like.

• 24:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, I mean,

• 24:08Jack Selby?

  That would be.

• 24:09Speaker 02

  I mean, it is all true, but it's just, I don't know, because people get on such a big, this is, it's the, there is a bit of a moral dilemma.

• 24:17Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 24:18Speaker 02

  We want to make sure that the people coming on, the amount of onboarding they come on before coming on the show, but we couldn't do that with someone on the street, you know?

• 24:25Graham Stephan?

  Right.

• 24:25Speaker 02

  So.

• 24:26Graham Stephan?

  But it makes sense for you not going up to random people, just given the audience size at this point.

• 24:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:31Graham Stephan?

  Where do you, where do you draw the line between people who think that you exploit poor people? Versus offering true criticism and helping them with tough love?

• 24:41Speaker 02

  With the amount of times that we have on phone calls with them, a onboarding video that's sent to them before they come on, an onboarding video they're forced to watch in the green room before they come on. The amount of stuff we say, hey dude, you're about to get shit on in front of a bunch of people. Don't do this if you don't want to do it. We, we won't be offended. Don't do it. Tell us now. They get that chance like five times before they ever come on. That's why we actually have a lot of people cancel right before, which is okay.

• 25:09Graham Stephan?

  What percent would you say cancels?

• 25:11Speaker 02

  We put four on the calendar. We could say one cancels, one to two.

• 25:16Graham Stephan?

  Okay.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  A week. Yeah.

• 25:17Graham Stephan?

  So how many people apply towards how many people actually get on the show?

• 25:21Speaker 02

  Now we get a lot more applications because we're targeting our audience on TikTok and Meta.

• 25:26Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 25:26Speaker 02

  So, but that's specifically targeted at our audience still. And um, now we have a lot more applications. I don't know. We're getting, we close to a hundred applications a day. I don't know.

• 25:36Graham Stephan?

  Wow.

• 25:37Speaker 02

  I don't know. A lot of people want to come on. Yeah. Um, I think a majority of it is kind of just jerking themselves off a little. So a lot of people want to come on. They want to talk about their multimillion dollar portfolio or something, but uh, it's a pretty, pretty limited selection. If we were like Lindsay could have pretty much anyone with that come on, but that would get, we already have kind of relatively repetitive show. It would get uber repetitive. We'd just let anyone and anyone and anyone on. So we want to make sure we at least get interesting stories and you know, more diverse selections of what is happening.

• 26:11Graham Stephan?

  How do you know what to pick for to not become repetitive?

• 26:14Speaker 02

  Well, that's why I heard, hired Lindsay. She's, she's a beast. Uh, her and Jake and eventually one, our new junior producer as well. Um, they just have so many conversations with them, so many conversations going through their life and just trying to understand them and. You know, see, see where their headspace is at, see what their opinions on things are and just making sure that it's not someone on, coming on who just spends at McDonald's and that's their only thing, you know? So, you know, I put it in their hands and I trust them and they've been delivering.

• 26:45Jack Selby?

  And how do you verify all the information that they say is accurate?

• 26:49Speaker 02

  Statements, um, financially, it's in their statements and they send credit karma screenshots as well. So that for sure. Life things, it's a little hard to tell. We definitely get one side of this, of the story and, you know, I've gotten in trouble a couple of times for that. Uh, where it's like, you know, someone will tell a big trauma dump or something, which is very fair, go ahead. Um, and I'm like, I, you know, instinctively play devil's advocate, but well, we're not here on the other side, so I just want to be a little cautious. But then, you know, it's almost like, am I denying someone's experience? You know, that's kind of what I heard a few times. So, mm, I don't know, it's a little difficult, but we can't verify that stuff's true 100%.

• 27:25Jack Selby?

  That's fair. That gets dicey. On the top of credit cards, do you think the average person uses them appropriately? Or would you say for the most part, it's just a bad?

• 27:33Speaker 02

  The average person?

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• 28:30Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  Oh dude, I don't know the statistics around this, but well, I guess we know the median balances in the thousands, right? So I'm sure the average person.

• 28:37Graham Stephan?

  Oh, the average credit card debt right now, I think is like $6,000, like $6,600. The average person.

• 28:43Jack Selby?

  Average?

• 28:43Graham Stephan?

  Yes.

• 28:44Jack Selby?

  So is that the average credit card debt? And then that's you put that per, so you assign divide by 330 million or whatever.

• 28:49Graham Stephan?

  Well, not everyone has a credit card. I know, I'm just saying like the amount of people. The average person with a credit card has a balance of, I believe it was $6,600. I did a video similar to this about like the American debt and the savings rate is 3% right now. The, for the average American, 3%. And if they're making $65,000 a year, they're, they're saving like two grand a year. And they have a credit card balance of 6,600. There's no way to pay it off. You physically can't, you know, it just doesn't work.

• 29:16Jack Selby?

  Do you think then that it could be irresponsible to advocate for credit cards? For something that generally is bad?

• 29:23Speaker 02

  Hmm. I don't know, man. That's kind of the same thing as this, like, you know, someone could get addicted to that coffee right there. This is, you know, I don't drink, but I don't care if people drink. Like someone could get addicted to it. I don't know. That's why I always just say use credit cards only if you're a credit card person. If you can demonstrate that you can budget and pay your bills correctly for at least a quarter, then maybe give yourself like an intro credit card. Right? You know, really got to do it safely. It's a tool, but just like any other tool in construction, dude, you can get your head caved in. So just gotta be safe. I don't like super advocate for credit cards. I wouldn't say either. I'm not like, I'm not even, dude, if you looked at my wallet, you'd be so bored as like a credit card person. I'm like, nothing. I got like just a couple of credit cards that make sense. Business credit. It's just like, I'm not a super big advocate.

• 30:08Speaker 02

  I like them because I can utilize them and I like to finesse a little, but I'm not like, go get a credit card, go get a credit card, go get a. But credit scores. I know, I know our boy Dave isn't, he doesn't think credit scores are the biggest thing in the world, but no, underwriting, you've really got to find like. The right institution for that definitely becomes less convenient, especially for apartment hunting. So, I mean, then again, maybe I am advocating for smart credit card usage and training from parents to kids so that they can build a good credit. So when they go to least their own place without any roommates or cosigners or whatever, that they're able to get it. So.

• 30:44Graham Stephan?

  You know what they're gonna do at some point? Cause I have a feeling the credit card usage and interest rates are gonna, are gonna be an issue over the next probably 10 years in terms of like Congress and senators and they're gonna look into this. I have a feeling at some point they're gonna mandate credit card companies require a test before you get the credit card. And just basic, like, is a 24% interest rate, when you have a thousand dollar debt, what is that? And you have to like, select the dollar amount. Or like, is your credit gonna take a hit if you don't pay it off after 30 days? Like, all these questions. And if you answer like, five questions correctly, like, basic, beginner level questions, then you get the credit card. Because they do that with stock trading. When you set up for Robinhood, uh, options, you have to answer a few stupid, basic questions that a monkey

• 31:26Graham Stephan?

  could answer, but they're questions. At least it's Robin Hood. Hey, we did our job. We did something. I think a credit card should do that if people are taking out loans. I remember the one she, uh, that you had on your show, didn't understand what the credit card interest rate was and thought that was her limit? Or there was like, a weird one like that, right?

• 31:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, probably.

• 31:47Graham Stephan?

  She's just like, didn't understand what it, what it was. Like, the 20%. She's like, oh, I thought this is like, how much I could spend.

• 31:53Speaker 02

  A lot of them, they think their 2% cash back is beating their 30% interest. So like, yeah.

• 31:58Jack Selby?

  For the average viewer out there that's trying to improve their finances, what are some things that you would just generally recommend for, for them to be in a better financial spot?

• 32:06Speaker 02

  Just to start with, just the basic budget. Literally, any budgeting app, I have some preferences, but literally, any budgeting app, I have an extra preference towards simpler budget. Because you just gotta do the simple things. That's what a lot of people fail on. Is a lot of people try to get the crazy spreadsheet. A lot of people try to get the, you know, download the, you need a budget and then it's like a trillion billion things. Literally just the basic start of setting up the budget, understanding just what your even income is. People can't even answer the damn income question sometimes. And then just understanding what's going out. I, when they, it always blows their mind when I tell them how much they're spending versus how much is coming in. They have no idea.

• 32:47Speaker 02

  So literally just creating that simpler budget. That's why I made the simpler budget app for the basics, for people just getting started. Want to change their life, take control from the first time. It's just that basic thing, dude. Starting with the budget from there.

• 33:02Speaker 02

  Then it's just the foundations, right? What are the goals you're trying to hit? Got to get that emergency fund or we're trying to pay off high interest debt. You know, what's our life situation looking like at that time? Do we need to make sure we have a little extra cushion before paying off that debt? Cause we have kids. You go from there, but you gotta start with the budget. People just don't know how much money is going in and out.

• 33:18Jack Selby?

  I remember back in college, I did this where I created a mock budget for a fake family that lives. It's a, it was a husband and wife or boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever, two, two people. And they have a child and they were affording a car, gas. I allocated a budget towards rent, towards X, and I found an actual place. Everything, even childcare. I got the average healthcare costs. I got food budget costs from the census. Everything. And they were able to still save. It was like $5,000 a year, which is a pretty substantial amount. And that's not accounting for any growth in income. Just working standard hours. And I remember I got in college, went into this presentation, so many people were like giving me backlash from this.

• 33:59Jack Selby?

  But it's so weird. It's like, am I then supposed to instead say, oh, if this is your situation, you're screwed. There's nothing you can do.

• 34:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know.

• 34:07Jack Selby?

  You know what I mean? It's like, okay, well, if you do the right things, then good things will happen. But the only other thing, the thing that people want you to say is that, oh, there's nothing you can do. You're screwed.

• 34:15Speaker 02

  I mean, that's definitely easier. It's to put the head in the sand. It's easier to assume that everything's doomed and gloom. Why work? Why make it? Why put in effort? Why sacrifice, live uncomfortably for a second? Um, I mean, there are real situations to acknowledge of, you know, like I've had a few people that live in pretty shitty situations and like, fuck, I don't know if they can afford to get out of there. Think it's also important for people to probably know their rights as tenants as well. I had someone, I think it was the person I was talking about earlier that. Uh, where they were an orphan, uh, their entire life. Uh, they live in a place where like he literally can't stand in the shower because you fall through. Like you gotta know, you need to know your rights and just talk. You try to get connect. We, actually, I think we sent them links to pro bonos.

• 34:57Graham Stephan?

  Wow.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  People that would be interested in pro bono work, you know, in that space. So it's important for people to know their rights as well. If they're, if they're, if they are getting fucked. Cause people do get, there are situations that are fucked. Just know your rights. There's laws in place for a reason. It's a lot of people just don't know.

• 35:12Graham Stephan?

  What do you think about cash stuffing and envelopes?

• 35:16Speaker 02

  For some people, they need that little extra help. They, if it's digital, they can't track it. For me, I can't track it if it's cash. I need the digital number. If a dollar goes down, I'm a bank account, I'm like, oh, but if a dollar goes out physically, I'm like, it doesn't exist. But yeah, some people like, if it's digital, they have no control. So envelope system's been recommended a few times on the show, quite a few times.

• 35:36Graham Stephan?

  But what do you say to the people who want to get a side hustle? How often is it actually worth it?

• 35:41Speaker 02

  It's worth it when it's really worth it when they don't have that wiggle room on the tightest budget. No Spotify with ad free, even with all that, they only have a hundred dollars left on a monthly basis. And like mathematically, it's going to take them, you know, 10 years to pay it off, or they could go through bankruptcy and then it's on for seven to 10 years, you know? It's just like, okay. Uh, at that point, if they can literally bring in an extra $500 a month. I could like more than double their progress or it's paying off.

• 36:11Graham Stephan?

  What do you think is the best side hustle?

• 36:13Speaker 02

  I mean, I just recommend people getting a job as quick as possible. I, I know during the pandemic, there are some, uh, you know, Uber Eats and Uber Eats was pretty good. It's not as good anymore. It's a little hard. It's kind of, isn't it like, kind of the, it's a low percentage that's actually making good money on it versus everyone else. Um, dude, I'm telling people, there's a coffee shop up the street. I talked to the manager. I, I, you know, I see him off and he's like, dude, I need to hire people. We're hiring people at 18 bucks an hour. Please send, send your guests here. Please send them. And I'm like, go.

• 36:43Graham Stephan?

  That's pretty good for a coffee shop now.

• 36:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. I'm like, go, go brew some coffee. Go. I don't know. I, that's pretty good. And like, they're desperate to hire people that will work schedules out. They'll figure it out. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Try the place next door. Service is still. Backfilling in a lot of cities, not as much as before.

• 37:04Graham Stephan?

  Interesting.

• 37:05Speaker 02

  But they're still backfilling. I know tech's hard. You can't just go out and get a random like side gig as easily in tech or anything, but if you work a little service for a bit, that's not a huge issue.

• 37:17Jack Selby?

  Anything with tips.

• 37:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:19Jack Selby?

  Tips can bring in some really good money.

• 37:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:22Jack Selby?

  Actually.

• 37:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, just ask a few questions and.

• 37:24Jack Selby?

  True. Flip this thing over real quick. Yeah.

• 37:27Graham Stephan?

  How much do you tip if you go into a place like a Chipotle?

• 37:31Speaker 02

  Chipotle?

• 37:31Graham Stephan?

  Where they make the food in front of you, but you're not sitting down and eating. What's the appropriate tip on that?

• 37:36Speaker 02

  Percentage. Uh, coffee shop, I always give a tip.

• 37:41Speaker 02

  Food delivery, always give a tip. Restaurant, I give a great tip.

• 37:44Jack Selby?

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 37:45Speaker 02

  I give thirty percent at restaurants.

• 37:46Graham Stephan?

  But for like whatever Chipotle, like a fast casual sort of dining experience, because it's not an eighteen percenter.

• 37:52Speaker 02

  Does it make you tip at Chipotle?

• 37:54Jack Selby?

  The way I see it is it's dependent on multiple different variables. If they serve, they have good service, then I'm tipping. But also if they flip that screen over and the first button is twenty percent, that makes me upset.

• 38:09Graham Stephan?

  Is it ever twenty percent? I always see fifteen.

• 38:11Jack Selby?

  No, no, no, no. A lot of the times they'll flip it over and the top, the first thing, the lowest you can tip is twenty percent. And that will make.

• 38:18Graham Stephan?

  There's always an other button, though.

• 38:20Jack Selby?

  Yes, you can, but I'm just saying, like, when they provide you with three things, because no one's, very few people go to the custom tip, usually do, you know, the three, twenty, twenty-five, thirty, or fifteen, twenty, twenty-five. And if it starts out at twenty, then that, for, for some reason, I don't know, I'm, I'm thinking to myself, like, that's what a lot of people tip at restaurants. And I would say there's a big delta between, you know, the service that's provided at a restaurant versus taking an order. And obviously it gets split with the chefs and stuff like that.

• 38:45Speaker 02

  I mean, there's like kiosks and stuff. When I go to like a concert and I get like a little snack there and it's, I pick it up from a roller.

• 38:50Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 38:51Speaker 02

  And then it's asking for a tip. I sm- I punch that no tip button.

• 38:54Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 38:55Speaker 02

  Cause nothing was done there. I didn't see a human. I didn't even see someone. So I don't even know what's happening, but yeah, I don't know.

• 39:02Graham Stephan?

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• 39:12Jack Selby?

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• 39:30Graham Stephan?

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• 40:12Jack Selby?

  Ramp is the corporate card and spend management software designed to help you save time and put money back in your pocket. With Ramp, spend policies are built into the card to control spending before it even happens. It automatically collects and categorizes receipts, so you'll never have to chase them down again. Plus, Ramp enforces compliance by flagging violations and locking cards for non-compliance. Basically saying, if Graham wants to get a little silly and use the Iced Coffee Hour company card to buy himself some coral for his reef aquarium, which I know he wants to do, the spending will be controlled before it even happens. He will be flagged and his card will be locked, so don't do it, Graham.

• 40:44Graham Stephan?

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• 41:18Speaker 02

  Probably the behavior part. A lot of people think this is out of control. You know, we kind of talked about it already. It's just like... Well, everyone just says, oh, they deserve or this is out of my control. So much is behavior. You see it in the numbers. I mean, $900 spent on DoorDash in today's episode. Did you really need to not DoorDash $900 in a month when you literally couldn't pay for a $400 collection? So it's impossible. I don't have an extra $400. Okay, you do. It's like it gets controlled. So much more behavior than people think.

• 41:47Graham Stephan?

  Do you ever have a problem relating to some people who are on their show who are in situations that you have not been in yet? Like, let's say a single mother with three kids. Is that hard for you to like, help her, given that you hadn't been in a situation like that yourself?

• 42:01Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, I think anything that I haven't been in, it's always going to be a little harder. I try to relate it to people I know in my life, family members or friends who've been through certain things, you know? Um, like, I wasn't raised in a single family household, but I know people who have been and I've had conversations that I try to try to relate it in some kind of way. And I try to at least listen and be empathetic, even though I'm known for interrupting. I try. I think the, the big, the big hard ones, I feel like I can relate to that pretty okay. The big hard ones are someone that, again, if it's like, I've never been in or known anyone that's been in like horribly abusive situation. I don't know how to relate to that. Never been in it and I don't know people in it. And if I do, I don't know it because they don't want to talk about it.

• 42:44Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, there's that heartbreaking Dave Ramsey call. I remember that where someone was in an abusive situation and she called and Dave Ramsey was like, do you need help? And she's like, yes. And then he told her to, we're going to call 911 for you. Like, stay on the line. That was awful.

• 43:00Speaker 02

  I can't relate to that. That's hard. That's really hard. But that's usually when we try to connect them with different resources and stuff as well.

• 43:05Jack Selby?

  What percentage of just the general, what you've seen come on your show can be solved with some more financial literacy and discipline versus the stuff that realistically, these people are going to need to file for bankruptcy and take extremely drastic measures to completely reset?

• 43:20Speaker 02

  Vast majority, vast majority. I'd say only 5% this year that we've uploaded. Like, they, it needs to be something extreme. Like bankruptcy is like the only option or, you know?

• 43:30Jack Selby?

  So one out of 20. And, and the people that come on your show are probably

• 43:33Graham Stephan?

  A representation of some of the the people that are lower on the scale of just general financial status.

• 43:40Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 43:40Graham Stephan?

  So it's we're talking a very small percentage of people you would say are actually financially screwed.

• 43:45Speaker 02

  Oh, well, I don't know about that. Again, when we go back to the what average American doesn't have a thousand can't afford a thousand hour emergency. Or the six thousand hour credit card balance. A lot of people are financially fucked. A lot of people don't have even close to enough for retirement. Like, a lot of people are financially fucked. As dire as what we have on the show for the average or the median American. No, we're definitely on the lower half because, you know, it we want it to be a challenge. We want it to be more interesting, you know, it's definitely.

• 44:13Speaker 02

  But it's, these are still the people you're working with. They're the people you're walking next to on the street. There are people in your family, talking about money taboo in the country. So it's like you, we don't know. Until they come on here. So many people actually have come on the show to send us, or we we talked to them in a follow up and they're like. Yeah, like my coworkers knew I was coming on the show and stuff, but they were so surprised at how bad my finances were. This is, we don't know.

• 44:37Graham Stephan?

  Now, on their side, what's the most difficult part about being poor or broke?

• 44:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, when you don't have an emergency fund, that's where things can get fucked. I mean, what happens? You know, pet gets sick. You know, shit gets scary.

• 44:49Graham Stephan?

  That's gotta be the worst, honestly, for a pet.

• 44:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:53Graham Stephan?

  It's expensive. I had to take Bailey in. She had a little limp. Apparently she had a sprain. It was almost a thousand dollars. A thousand dollars for medication for them to look at it and do an X-ray.

• 45:05Speaker 02

  I did thirty thousand recently.

• 45:08Graham Stephan?

  Wow.

• 45:08Speaker 02

  Thirty thousand multiple surgeries on my on my great paronyes.

• 45:13Graham Stephan?

  What happened?

• 45:14Speaker 02

  She ate a toy, this small little piece of a ball.

• 45:18Graham Stephan?

  Do you have insurance?

• 45:19Speaker 02

  I do. Save me twenty. Cause I think that was the cap. It was still ten. Um, but uh. Yeah, busted up her intestine, so it exploded and then sepsis and stuff.

• 45:28Graham Stephan?

  How was the, how's the dog?

• 45:30Speaker 02

  Oh, she's great. She's great now. She's great now, but.

• 45:32Graham Stephan?

  That was a thirty thousand dollar surgery.

• 45:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was so hard to catch because usually they they were telling me like that blockage and stuff. It's like they can't keep down any food. They can't, you know, it's just diarrhea and vomit, but she wasn't really showing them. Symptoms.

• 45:44Graham Stephan?

  How did you know?

• 45:45Speaker 02

  It's because she like shows symptoms and then she'd be fine for a few days and then symptoms and then fine for days. And I was like, okay, well, that's it. I'll send in, send in, they sent her home saying nothing was wrong after x-rays. Then a week later, after symptoms like kept popping up, I'm like, okay, something's happened and she was acting slow and I brought her over and that's when they realized it split open.

• 46:03Graham Stephan?

  How did they get it different?

• 46:07Graham Stephan?

  Scan or something?

• 46:08Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, they went with ultrasound.

• 46:10Graham Stephan?

  Oh, okay.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:11Graham Stephan?

  Why do I think that this was the second time this had happened?

• 46:14Speaker 02

  Yes, because it is because that's why she has to, she looks like a big scary dog every time she goes outside alone now because she wears a. What's it called?

• 46:22Graham Stephan?

  Muzzle?

• 46:23Speaker 02

  But it's not because she bites, it's because she eats you.

• 46:27Graham Stephan?

  So why?

• 46:28Speaker 02

  I don't know, dude, she's obsessed. She's obsessed. Apparently, I was talking to one of the vets there and her Great Pyrenees does the same. So she's just.

• 46:34Graham Stephan?

  Is that, is that a breed thing to like see something and just wanna eat it?

• 46:38Speaker 02

  My other dog doesn't. My other dog chew sticks but spits them out, you know? They chew on bones and stuff, spits it out, but I don't know, man, she's crazy. So I'm telling people it feels so fucking mean. It feels so mean. But I've started to come to the mindset where like if you cannot afford pet insurance, you cannot afford a pet. Cause if you can't afford to pay for a life-saving event, or even if you can't pay, afford to pay to take them in and have them throw up, you know how they can do that little medication if they eat something? If you can't afford to pay that, you can't afford a pet. You can't.

• 47:10Graham Stephan?

  You think a pet is a privilege?

• 47:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're your responsibility. You're taking, you're taking on that contract, you know, that moral contract.

• 47:17Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, there was someone I knew, uh, who had, had a pet, didn't have pet insurance, or it was something where the pet wouldn't be covered. The pet had an issue and there was like a fifty fifty chance of survival, but it was gonna be like a twenty thousand dollar surgery.

• 47:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:32Graham Stephan?

  Fifty fifty chance.

• 47:34Speaker 02

  That's what mine was.

• 47:34Graham Stephan?

  Didn't have any money, took out a loan, took out one of those because they, they offer the payday services or whatever it is. Took out the loan, did the surgery. Pet didn't make it.

• 47:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:45Graham Stephan?

  Didn't make it. It was a fifty percent of no. So now not only have you lost your pet, but you're twenty thousand dollars in debt on a payment plan for a pet that didn't make it.

• 47:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:57Graham Stephan?

  It just, that's gotta suck.

• 47:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, really.

• 48:00Graham Stephan?

  It's not like you wanna say, oh, fifty fifty, well, okay, let's save the money. You, you never wanna just like save the money for a pet.

• 48:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:07Graham Stephan?

  Probably even if there's like a twenty percent chance of survival, you probably wanna take it.

• 48:11Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 48:12Graham Stephan?

  Gosh, that's gotta be, that's gotta be sad. It's harder for a pet than it, I hate to say it. It's sometimes harder for a pet than a, than a person because the pet really is like entirely dependent on you. Unless it's like a cat, instead of a child. Yeah, a child would be, you know. But when something depends on you and it's like you're the one responsible for it.

• 48:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. I used, one of the, I don't really, you know, get on like Reddit or anything anymore, but one thing I used to see back in the day. Uh, when people just kept saying, oh, Caleb yells at people for taking out credit cards to save their dog's life at the thing. And I've like, don't think I've ever yelled at that. I yell at the fact that they take out the credit card to, you know, do the vet bill. But then they go and blow a shit ton of money on fast food instead of paying off the credit card. It's like, I never understood that criticism. I've never yelled at them saving their pet's life. Me on with them not paying off the card. Do it. If you don't have an emergency fund, do it. I would do it. But pay it off. Sacrifice for a bit and pay it off after you do it.

• 49:14Graham Stephan?

  How much is pet insurance?

• 49:16Speaker 02

  It, it depends on, you know, the breed and age and stuff. Uh, both of my pups are like, I think like thirty-five, forty a month.

• 49:24Graham Stephan?

  It's not bad at all. That's not bad.

• 49:26Speaker 02

  I got them young and healthy.

• 49:28Graham Stephan?

  Oh, okay.

• 49:29Speaker 02

  Before she started going crazy with her.

• 49:31Graham Stephan?

  Do you think that's a good thing? Should I do that?

• 49:33Speaker 02

  I would.

• 49:33Graham Stephan?

  Really?

• 49:34Speaker 02

  I would. You're gonna, you're not gonna let a pet die. You're not gonna let a pet die. And you're not gonna wanna spend thirty thousand dollars either, so do it.

• 49:42Graham Stephan?

  I don't know, it'll be thirty grand. I don't know. Uh, yeah, she, she got quoted a while ago for a potential like a, like a elective surgery that like, hey, she might need this at some point. It was like five grand and I was like, I don't know about that. She's fine.

• 49:56Speaker 02

  Who?

• 49:57Graham Stephan?

  What?

• 49:57Speaker 02

  Who, which one?

• 49:58Graham Stephan?

  Bailey.

• 49:59Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 49:59Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. It was like, apparently these dogs are sometimes born without like, it sounds so weird, a kneecap. And like, her kneecap isn't fully developed on one leg. It's not an issue, but it, it might be an issue. And so it's like, do you wanna do this? Have the surgery now for something that might not be an issue or? Not do it, and it might be an issue in the future, but it might not be. And I was like, well, if it becomes an issue, then we could address it.

• 50:26Speaker 02

  Get the pet insurance. I think because of that, it might be a little more expensive depending. And I think Bailey's what, five?

• 50:33Graham Stephan?

  Four.

• 50:33Speaker 02

  Four, okay. So, yeah, it gets more expensive the older they get. I'd get it young. Get it young. You just got a cat, right?

• 50:41Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 50:41Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 50:42Graham Stephan?

  Actually, I got a kitten too.

• 50:44Speaker 02

  You're double catting?

• 50:45Graham Stephan?

  I'm double cat.

• 50:46Speaker 02

  So now you're triple catting, right?

• 50:47Graham Stephan?

  No, no, double.

• 50:49Speaker 02

  No, I was talking about the cat. Yeah.

• 50:50Graham Stephan?

  Ramsey, Gigi is the new cat, and then Bailey.

• 50:54Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 50:55Graham Stephan?

  Gigi's very cute. Yeah, she-

• 50:56Speaker 02

  And a lot of fish. She is.

• 50:57Graham Stephan?

  Oh, yeah, the fish. Ton of fish.

• 50:59Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. I don't think you pet insurance on fish. I don't even know if that's an option.

• 51:04Graham Stephan?

  That'd be pretty funny. That'd be interesting.

• 51:06Speaker 02

  Tank insurance for the coral.

• 51:07Graham Stephan?

  Idea. Gosh. That would be, that would be great. Yeah, if your coral dies, we'll pay you for it.

• 51:12Speaker 02

  I'm gonna ruin your retention right now for a quick second, so you can cut this if you want. But I was dating, or no, no, I was going on multiple dates with someone, and she had a nice coral, uh, tank. It was just beautiful, lots of fish, coral. Then the big Texas freeze four years ago happened. It all died. Everything died.

• 51:30Graham Stephan?

  That's my nightmare. If, if, so if a tank goes without electricity for like eight hours, pretty much everything dies. And it depends on the-

• 51:39Speaker 02

  Really?

• 51:39Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, it depends on the temperature too, because, because the oxygen in the water. So the first thing, so the temperature can drop. That's okay up to like, you know, low seventies, and things can survive from that. It's actually a lot better that the, the temperature goes down than go up. The temperature goes up too much, everything will die. Goes down a little bit, more wiggle room there. But basically, the fish just asphyxiate. It's just no oxygen in the water, no, uh, running water, and they'll just suffocate to death.

• 52:05Speaker 02

  Her room got forty degrees for a week. Nothing, nothing could be done.

• 52:11Graham Stephan?

  Gotta get a generator.

• 52:12Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 52:13Graham Stephan?

  I ended up getting a generator for the tank.

• 52:14Speaker 02

  Smart.

• 52:14Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. They were, they were actually a sponsor of a video, and I used it. I plumbed it directly into the outlet, uh, the breaker for the aquarium.

• 52:22Speaker 02

  That's so cool. That's so cool.

• 52:24Graham Stephan?

  So now it just takes over. It's electric. Works great.

• 52:26Speaker 02

  Tank insurance. It's the new insurance.

• 52:28Graham Stephan?

  Worth it. What was it like for you? What were the statements like when you were in the worst financial situation you've ever been in?

• 52:34Speaker 02

  I didn't look at them. I don't know, but I do know this. Um, when I was really bad early college, you know, I wanted my daily McDees. That was my dinner and I could physically afford it because I was also active. Uh, what I would do is just find a way just to make the payment necessary on a credit card. So I had enough at the credit card before it hit to the limit to go to McDonald's and get that meal for that day. Cause how could I cook? I couldn't cook. I needed my tendies.

• 53:06Graham Stephan?

  What was the, what was the meal? What would you get?

• 53:08Speaker 02

  Chicken tendies back when they did it. Tendies, fries, and probably a shake.

• 53:12Graham Stephan?

  Wow. It's the shake. The shakes are the real like calorie.

• 53:15Speaker 02

  I wasn't fat back then though. It didn't mean anything because I was active, walking around campus and stuff.

• 53:19Graham Stephan?

  Are you just less active now?

• 53:21Speaker 02

  Oh yeah. I mean, just here, you know, at the studio, I'm going back and forth between the three units, but like, yeah, a lot less active now.

• 53:30Graham Stephan?

  Are you motivated at all to try to get in better shape?

• 53:33Speaker 02

  To a certain point, I mean, it's the motivation that I tell a lot of people on the show as well. It's like, yes, I'd like to get thin or be more fit. Um, but, uh, obviously my behavior is suggesting I prefer going and getting that meal or whatever, being lazier and not working out a bit more. Like mentally, yeah, I'd like to, I want to get there, of course, but.

• 53:58Graham Stephan?

  It's, it's surprising to me that you're very dedicated when it comes to business, money, finances, like all of that. It's like you're like a 10 out of 10, like, like perfect on that, very disciplined. But when it comes to health, there's less of a focus on like wanting to dial it in.

• 54:15Speaker 02

  I think it's consequences. I always have a wake up call. I had a financial wake up call one day, just, you know, everything was fucked and I realized how fucked it was. I I joke with my friends like I'm just like I need to have a heart attack real quick. Just go, someone order me a heart attack real quick. Just give me, you know, if I have that, then I'm like, oh, fuck. So I get, it's like, you know, I don't have, and I don't have any harder time going on dates or anything. I don't have any, there's been no. There are no consequences. There's been no negative.

• 54:41Graham Stephan?

  You're not at a point where you're gonna have a wake up call. I mean, like, you could be your entire life like you are right now and be totally fine. It's, I feel like there's a bit of a health aspect of like, you know, be healthier. You might have more energy, you might.

• 54:53Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 54:54Graham Stephan?

  You know, look in the mirror and be like, yeah. But there's not gonna be like, uh, you know, someone is like, ew, can't like, I, I just don't think that's gonna happen.

• 55:02Speaker 02

  Why I'm not gonna make an excuse. I mean, there's no excuse. The fact is for those other things that I'm so disciplined in, as if I get less disciplined on the business, I see that in next month's, you know, numbers when I sit down, uh, with my number two, Robert, and we just, we're looking over numbers, I see the immediate impact, right?

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• 56:18Jack Selby?

  No scale. What if-

• 56:19Speaker 02

  I want to, I want to, but obviously my behavior is showing that I want something more.

• 56:24Graham Stephan?

  I think the hardest part is starting.

• 56:26Speaker 02

  It is.

• 56:27Graham Stephan?

  That's all it is. I think if you gave it 30 days, like you challenged yourself from January 1st to 31st, 30 days, hiring a dietitian,

• 56:36Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 56:37Graham Stephan?

  Uh, meal preps and a personal trainer, three times a week.

• 56:40Jack Selby?

  You don't even need a personal trainer. You could just go on a caloric deficit, honestly.

• 56:44Speaker 02

  I'm moving to a walkable community and every time I am living in, before I moved to this house, I lived in a walkable community and I was, you know, I was 30 pounds lighter. Uh, I went on walks every day with the dogs. Now that I live in some, just, I love my house, but I just live in a suburb, suburban neighborhood, no streetlights, no sidewalks. It's dark when we get out of work in the winter. Uh, cause people refuse to keep permanent daylight savings time. And, uh, it's just, I don't go on walks or anything anymore.

• 57:13Graham Stephan?

  I would like to see you get in really good shape this year.

• 57:17Speaker 02

  Well dude, I'm fucking, I'm hot when I'm hot.

• 57:19Graham Stephan?

  We've almost done like an audit a year between you and I. Going on and I'll find something, we could fine tune a little bit. I think the first year was getting you off the franchise. We did that.

• 57:30Speaker 02

  That restaurant, man, it is as successful as ever though.

• 57:33Graham Stephan?

  That's okay, but look at you. I think you made a better decision. I think you are the winner here. But I will say, there's something beyond money that like I've noticed a lot of like really wealthy people are now gravitating towards like getting really fit and shape. Cause that's something you can't really buy. Like you gotta think of all the billionaires now are all doing the thing where they're all getting like jacked with six packs. It, it's the one thing that like-

• 57:58Speaker 02

  They are, it's, yeah.

• 58:00Graham Stephan?

  It, it's now becoming the ultimate flex to be like in your 40s and 50s, but chiseled.

• 58:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 58:08Graham Stephan?

  And I, I think, I think that could be next for you because, because you've definitely done well in business as we're about to get to in a little bit. So keep watching and like and subscribe if you haven't done that already. I mean, the world to us. But I think now, now you've-

• 58:21Speaker 02

  To a million subscribers?

• 58:23Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 58:23Speaker 02

  That was fun.

• 58:24Graham Stephan?

  Uh, yeah, we don't think about that. But, but now that you've done well in all these aspects, I think the next thing for you would be fitness. Just dialing it in and you might command a little more authority with guests being like, "Hey, I did finance."

• 58:39Jack Selby?

  Yeah, I don't know if that's a good thing, like having a jacked rich guy like Chad. Yeah, like 12 employees like yelling at you. I feel like that's

• 58:49Jack Selby?

  that's a different, you know?

• 58:51Speaker 02

  Honestly, I mean, I can tell you guys, I have not talked about this on the show. I do hear that. I really do. And I know that's something that at some point really does need to be taken advantage of. One thing that is just like awakened in me this year that I almost feel like I'm falling behind in life.

• 59:07Speaker 02

  I fucking, I want wife. I want kids. Like I've never felt that in my life before. I've always joked about it on this show. 29. I've always joked about it on the show, but for some reason, something this year, I've like felt like I'm like,

• 59:21Speaker 02

  like failing.

• 59:22Jack Selby?

  You're having a lot of couples on the show. Do you think that could have anything to do with it?

• 59:26Graham Stephan?

  Dude, imagine this like the subliminal messaging is coming out as Caleb's guests come on the show.

• 59:31Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 59:32Graham Stephan?

  That it doesn't, doesn't that?

• 59:34Speaker 02

  It's been really weird.

• 59:35Jack Selby?

  Is it because of financial success?

• 59:38Speaker 02

  I, I, I don't know. I do have financial success, have business success. I have no one to share with. I don't go to home, any to home, home to anyone. Um, I don't know. Like, I feel like I'd like to pass it along.

• 59:52Speaker 02

  I don't know. Dating, dating's always been easy and fun and I love going on dates and I go on a lot of dates and I don't know, but there's that. I feel like there's just that's a big missing chunk. And I, my family was in town this last weekend and I got the most thoughtful, amazing gift from my mom of a photo album. I've never had one before and it showed my entire life and I saw my parents with like,

• 1:00:18Speaker 02

  seven-year-old me.

• 1:00:21Speaker 02

  No, 10-year-old me and they're my age now. The age I am right now had a 10 year old me and I'm like, what the fuck am I doing?

• 1:00:29Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, but you wouldn't have been able to do all of this with a seven.

• 1:00:31Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:00:32Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, that would have been an uphill battle. It could also be part of the holidays, you know, a lot of people feel like around the holidays.

• 1:00:37Speaker 02

  I've been feeling it this year though. It's been building up this year more than ever before. Like I've, you know, felt like, oh, it'd be nice to have a girlfriend before, you know, and we've joked about that and stuff. I've never felt the way I feel this way.

• 1:00:50Graham Stephan?

  Man, I give it five years. Like you want, you want to make sure the person that you, that you end up finding, like you give it a few years with them and like a few years just to YouTube because once you have a kid, it's like you, that you can never undo that. You know, there's always going to be a kid no matter what, like your life will change forever because of that. Like there's no going back. And so like, I think it's better to live it up now with someone else.

• 1:01:13Speaker 02

  And you, are you a single little guy?

• 1:01:15Jack Selby?

  Yeah, I'm a single little guy and I'm feeling a little bit of the pressure too. I just turned 26. And I'm definitely like, once I, once I hit that age too, I'm like, okay, like I'm past, you know, the first quarter of a century.

• 1:01:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:26Jack Selby?

  I feel like I should probably get on it, but I'm curious for you, what were you looking for previously just to go on casual dates and have fun or whatever?

• 1:01:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just, I enjoyed casual dates and I'd be okay if a relationship happens here and there. Just I never really took it like super seriously.

• 1:01:40Jack Selby?

  What's preventing you from getting into a relationship now then?

• 1:01:43Speaker 02

  I guess nothing's preventing, really busy with this job because this job doesn't just exist here, you know, it exists when I go home. Muscle beat afterwards because we do so much more than just filming the show, you know? Now it's, it's a full-fledged business and, uh, and also just, I love spending time with the friends as well and, uh, I don't know, it's, it's a busy life.

• 1:02:09Jack Selby?

  Is that really what it is, is being busy?

• 1:02:11Speaker 02

  I think so. I mean, I go on the dating apps and I try to ask some people out in person as well, um, which is risky, uh, but, uh, Yeah.

• 1:02:20Graham Stephan?

  Dude, I would give it five years. Unsolicited Graham advice, just head down, buckle down, five years. You'll be thirty-four, yeah.

• 1:02:28Speaker 02

  You told me a few, a month ago, to just like not even go on dates anymore.

• 1:02:32Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, I think I said that.

• 1:02:33Speaker 02

  You said it was just like too risky now.

• 1:02:35Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, I think for everything that you're building.

• 1:02:37Speaker 02

  Makes me extra nervous.

• 1:02:39Graham Stephan?

  But I also think any distraction is a bad thing from taking your eye off.

• 1:02:44Speaker 02

  But what's the point of this, right? What is the point of this?

• 1:02:47Graham Stephan?

  I don't, I don't, I think it's a short-term sacrifice. Five years? Five, we're not talking about a thirty-year career here.

• 1:02:53Jack Selby?

  I'm just saying, just to give him a little bit of credit.

• 1:02:55Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:55Jack Selby?

  It, you're, you have a certain goal and, and future idea of what you want your life to look like. And maybe Caleb, and maybe Caleb has a completely different dream life down the road. That, that, so your advice to him in terms of what you personally would do may not be, you know,

• 1:03:15Graham Stephan?

  I see the, I see the, I see the spot that Caleb is in right now. I could relate closely to it, and I think five years, I think you set yourself up for a lot of longevity.

• 1:03:25Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:26Graham Stephan?

  For five years, and an industry that changes very quickly, where anything happens. I think five years solidifies yourself as like, you know, a paramount person in this space in such a way where you're gonna slowly over time, remove yourself from the business. Like, it's not gonna be Caleb Hammer Show indefinitely. It, it's going to evolve.

• 1:03:47Speaker 02

  We'll see about that.

• 1:03:47Graham Stephan?

  I think it's going to evolve. You're slowly gonna remove yourself and be more of an operator and investor and all these other things, a business owner. And then I think that's the appropriate time. And hey, if someone comes along, I'd be receptive to it. But I don't think it's necessarily a good thing to like go out there and, you know, unless, unless you enjoy it, unless it's like something you love doing.

• 1:04:07Speaker 02

  I love going on dates.

• 1:04:08Graham Stephan?

  Then keep doing that.

• 1:04:09Speaker 02

  I like going on dates.

• 1:04:09Graham Stephan?

  Keep doing that.

• 1:04:10Speaker 02

  Um, I'll give you two things. One, just saw my parents, right? I want my kids to be able to grow up with active, young grandparents. You know, I want them to be able to experience grandparents.

• 1:04:22Graham Stephan?

  But, but.

• 1:04:22Speaker 02

  And two, you know, especially more these days, you tend to date more like, you know, one, two, three years in your range. It's not the 1950s anymore. If I'm, if I'm 35 dating my range, talking about the biological clock, if we're just being purely realistic, I know modern medicine's great, but there is that. It's what a lot of people fear. I don't have the biological clock, but a lot of people I talk to fear that. And if I'm waiting five years and if I'm 35 and I'm married to someone who has to say, um, the young end of 32, you know, that's probably like ticking in their brain.

• 1:04:54Graham Stephan?

  Don't date someone who's 27.

• 1:04:55Speaker 02

  That's probably ticking in their brain. Well, uh, Twitter would be up in arms like, we, we, we.

• 1:04:59Graham Stephan?

  I don't think they would. I don't think anyone, I don't, I don't think anyone cares.

• 1:05:02Speaker 02

  I don't think any real people care.

• 1:05:04Graham Stephan?

  No.

• 1:05:04Speaker 02

  No, real people don't care. Terminally online rage bait, absolutely. But, um, yeah, I don't know. It's just, I don't know. It's something that's been weighing on me a lot this year.

• 1:05:14Jack Selby?

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• 1:05:23Graham Stephan?

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• 1:05:27Jack Selby?

  That's right. Every month you'll pay your rent, just like you always do, but now you'll actually get something back.

• 1:05:32Graham Stephan?

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• 1:06:00Jack Selby?

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• 1:06:18Graham Stephan?

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• 1:06:35Jack Selby?

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• 1:06:55Graham Stephan?

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• 1:07:13Jack Selby?

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• 1:07:27Graham Stephan?

  Thank you again Shopify for sponsoring this episode and now let's get back to the podcast.

• 1:07:32Jack Selby?

  So what is it that you want out of life? Like your dream, perfect, like, well, how's this all look?

• 1:07:37Speaker 02

  Dream, house, wife, two to three kids, two dogs, two cats, two cows. That'd be cool.

• 1:07:44Jack Selby?

  How much?

• 1:07:45Speaker 02

  Walkable community.

• 1:07:45Jack Selby?

  Like, how are you affording this? Where's the money coming from?

• 1:07:47Speaker 02

  I could retire right now. Like I could retire and live a good, happy, upper middle class life.

• 1:07:52Jack Selby?

  So technically speaking, the only thing that you can now optimize for, if you want to achieve that exact dream that you just stated, was you need to find a wife and two cows.

• 1:08:00Speaker 02

  Yes. And two dogs. I have two dogs.

• 1:08:03Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:03Speaker 02

  Yes. Um, yeah. I mean, I guess I could do the ultimate stretch goals, build the business. I like building the business. Building the business is fun. I'm competitive with myself, right? So I like building the business. That's another part of life. So that would be another thing that I'd like to see. It's not about the collection of all the wealth. It's like, I just love this and I love, I mean, you met so many employees today, you know? It's cool. It's fun. I love.

• 1:08:26Graham Stephan?

  I'd come here just to hang out, honestly, just to chill.

• 1:08:30Jack Selby?

  You have a very good work environment.

• 1:08:31Speaker 02

  Well, thank you. I can't wait for you guys to see the new place.

• 1:08:34Graham Stephan?

  It's lighthearted. I like it. In terms of your work, your, in your perfect schedule, how often would you be at the office?

• 1:08:40Speaker 02

  Nine to five, Monday to Friday. And I do love the work. It is fun.

• 1:08:44Graham Stephan?

  How much would the house be?

• 1:08:46Speaker 02

  How much money?

• 1:08:47Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:47Speaker 02

  The house I'm getting right now, I think is my perfect house.

• 1:08:50Graham Stephan?

  Really?

• 1:08:50Speaker 02

  It's in a walkable community and I value that more. I didn't realize how much I value that more than almost anything. I want to be able to walk to the pub. I want to walk to the grocery store. I want to walk to everything, but it's also quiet. It's safe. This is cute. Great parks.

• 1:09:06Graham Stephan?

  How much money would you need to support? Your lifestyle, your kids, your wife, would she be working?

• 1:09:13Speaker 02

  Dream, dream, dream. She could do whatever she wants, but dream, dream, dream. I mean, I, I'm pretty close. I think I, I'd be able to pull off 300 a year now. Pretty close.

• 1:09:23Graham Stephan?

  You think that's how much it would cost?

• 1:09:25Speaker 02

  Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. We would be beyond comfortable with that. I could do less. I could do two.

• 1:09:32Graham Stephan?

  With three kids?

• 1:09:33Speaker 02

  I know. Well, I guess I haven't mapped the kids. I haven't mapped the kids yet. I guess I haven't mapped the kids.

• 1:09:39Graham Stephan?

  Thirty thousand dollars a year per kid.

• 1:09:41Speaker 02

  What is that the?

• 1:09:43Graham Stephan?

  PBD was telling me a hundred thousand dollars a year per kid.

• 1:09:45Jack Selby?

  That's, that's PBD's kids.

• 1:09:47Graham Stephan?

  I understand, but, but okay. So if we're talking elite private school, after school activities, nanny.

• 1:09:52Speaker 02

  I'm okay with public school. I don't need to go, hey, you're.

• 1:09:56Jack Selby?

  I didn't mind public school.

• 1:09:57Speaker 02

  You're going to state college. Like, it's like, I don't know.

• 1:10:00Graham Stephan?

  Okay, thirty thousand dollars a year a kid.

• 1:10:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't want them to grow up like who were privileged or anything either, like spoiled. I grew up with spoiled and I grew up with like a billionaire kid and millionaire kids who were also super chill because they weren't spoiled. You know, I wouldn't want all that. I don't know. I don't know. That's not my vibe.

• 1:10:16Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. So you think three hundred, three hundred grand?

• 1:10:19Speaker 02

  Sure. It's hard for me to picture. I haven't priced out kids because that's not a realistic thing right now.

• 1:10:23Graham Stephan?

  Four hundred thousand dollars a year.

• 1:10:24Speaker 02

  I'm not popping out the kids.

• 1:10:25Graham Stephan?

  Before tax, four hundred.

• 1:10:27Speaker 02

  It's hard for me to math it out. That's more of a security thing, less of like, I want, I want, I want. It's more of a security thing because my life still, I think we talked about this last time, my life has not really changed since going on here. We're able to go to nicer restaurants, you know, as the friend group, but I hang out with the exact same friends before as I did afterwards. Bought a Tesla. That was exciting. I don't know. It's like, I don't know. I guess that number's more of a security thing. I don't have the, I want, I want, I want, I want.

• 1:10:56Graham Stephan?

  That's fair.

• 1:10:56Speaker 02

  Because I don't, I don't travel, you know, what do people do?

• 1:11:00Graham Stephan?

  They travel and they get on planes.

• 1:11:02Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 1:11:03Graham Stephan?

  How is your progress been? Because I remember that was a sticking point. You have a fear of flying.

• 1:11:08Speaker 02

  Um, nope.

• 1:11:09Graham Stephan?

  No, it's not a fear of flying. What was it? It was the anxiety of being in a confined space.

• 1:11:13Speaker 02

  Not having control, yeah. Yeah. The most extreme version of that anxiety is people are afraid to leave their house. I have the light version, right? I have the light version, essentially.

• 1:11:22Graham Stephan?

  Is that agoraphobia?

• 1:11:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I have like a version of that, probably. I mean, that's at least what therapists have said, so. It's like the light version, you know?

• 1:11:30Graham Stephan?

  Are you doing anything to work on that?

• 1:11:32Speaker 02

  Honestly, since we've talked about it, everything's just been so. There's only been one thing that I was like, ah, that'd have been cool. But other than that, I've been just grinding and happy. Be cool to go back, fly back to Michigan, maybe. Hate the snow. Family would be cool, though, but they just came down, so.

• 1:11:51Speaker 02

  I don't know. It hasn't been, it hasn't been a big goal this year.

• 1:11:54Graham Stephan?

  You know, you don't.

• 1:11:55Speaker 02

  I thought it would be, but it wasn't.

• 1:11:56Graham Stephan?

  You know what would change your life? Honestly, you get in shape for a year. Like, you get jacked, and when, when you finally reach a milestone, like whether that be on the scale or like lifting a certain amount or something like that, you get on an airplane.

• 1:12:08Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:12:09Graham Stephan?

  And you go back and visit your family.

• 1:12:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:11Graham Stephan?

  I swear, man, that, that will change the entire trajectory of your life if you could accomplish those two things.

• 1:12:16Speaker 02

  Or.

• 1:12:17Graham Stephan?

  Your goal to get on the plane when you hit the goal.

• 1:12:19Speaker 02

  Or.

• 1:12:20Graham Stephan?

  What?

• 1:12:20Speaker 02

  Become best friends with Dave Ramsey and use one of those PJs.

• 1:12:25Graham Stephan?

  That's it. That's the easy way out, but you know what? If it gets, if it gets you on a plane.

• 1:12:29Speaker 02

  Actually, one thing we thought about doing for our paid member, uh, our paid membership on our YouTube memberships is a vlog of us, uh, just renting a plane to fly up for like an hour and circle around Austin just to get on the plane, you know? But it would, it wouldn't be like the full cost because this is circling. But it would, it would show that, oh, I can be on the plane. I can be okay.

• 1:12:47Graham Stephan?

  You know what you could do that would be hilarious? Instead of getting a private jet, you booking every single seat on the airplane, so it's just you.

• 1:12:55Speaker 02

  That would. How much would that cost?

• 1:12:57Graham Stephan?

  I don't know. I don't know if it's a.

• 1:12:59Speaker 02

  It would be more than a private jet.

• 1:13:00Graham Stephan?

  Probably. But I think it would be hilarious is to be you on the airplane. That's it.

• 1:13:06Speaker 02

  That would be funny.

• 1:13:06Graham Stephan?

  The whole thing is just you.

• 1:13:08Speaker 02

  Would have to make it content. That'd be funny.

• 1:13:11Graham Stephan?

  You know what? I'm surprised, honestly, someone like Mr. Beast wouldn't do that for a short.

• 1:13:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:15Graham Stephan?

  Buying every seat on an airplane.

• 1:13:17Speaker 02

  It would be logistically challenging, like, how are you gonna find a flight that has no seats booked already?

• 1:13:23Jack Selby?

  And then

• 1:13:23Graham Stephan?

  You just book way in advance, like you probably

• 1:13:25Jack Selby?

  Like as soon as it comes out and like, yeah, that's possible.

• 1:13:27Speaker 02

  Or just leave one seat open and just a random person.

• 1:13:31Graham Stephan?

  Oh, that would be funny. I'd put that person next to you.

• 1:13:33Jack Selby?

  That would be funny. Uh, okay. I'm curious, uh, in terms of dating, you said that you would go up to people and just colder approach people.

• 1:13:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:42Jack Selby?

  You're still doing that?

• 1:13:43Speaker 02

  Every once in a while, I'm not like a go to bar kind of person, you know, when I hang out with my friends, we either like at each other's place or I get a restaurant, but every once in a while, you know, dog parks and stuff like that.

• 1:13:52Jack Selby?

  Tell me, how does that typically go for you?

• 1:13:53Speaker 02

  Uh, I have a mini panic attack and then I'm like, okay, let's go. And then I go and then I, uh, don't remember anything as I'm spurting out nonsense as I try to ask for a number and then I walk away.

• 1:14:06Jack Selby?

  And how, what's your success?

• 1:14:08Speaker 02

  It has to be like 5%, but.

• 1:14:10Jack Selby?

  Seriously, 5%?

• 1:14:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:12Jack Selby?

  So you go up to 20 women and then one of them will say yes and give you their phone.

• 1:14:17Speaker 02

  That feels about right. That feels about right.

• 1:14:19Jack Selby?

  And do you, do you usually ask for a phone number at the end of it?

• 1:14:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, or Instagram or something. Yeah.

• 1:14:24Jack Selby?

  And one in 20 will give it to you.

• 1:14:26Speaker 02

  Maybe that's, I'm hard guessing on that.

• 1:14:28Jack Selby?

  What do you think is causing, that seems slightly low. I feel like, I feel like 30% is.

• 1:14:35Speaker 02

  It's a little awkward. I know I, I'm a bumbling awkward dude when I'm in that situation and I'm bad at the, you know, I feel like the success rate would probably go from 5% to 15% and that's up just pure guess on both ends. But like, if I did the whole conversation for five to 10 minutes and close off with, okay, I'm gonna go, you wanna, and it's like, that would probably be better, but I just kind of go up and I'm like, you're cute.

• 1:14:57Jack Selby?

  That's what you said. So you started off with a compliment.

• 1:15:00Graham Stephan?

  So I got recommended this video. I loved it. This guy just started a brand new YouTube channel. His first video got like 600,000 views and it was him approaching a hundred women to try to get a phone number. And it's just him with one of those like, you know, sunglasses, you know, like, like what you have, just him going and asking, hey, I think you're, you're cute. Can I get your phone number? No, no, no, no. I think he got like one out of a hundred.

• 1:15:25Jack Selby?

  Hmm.

• 1:15:26Graham Stephan?

  And all the comments were like, yo, you're doing this wrong. You should just like start small talk, talk this and that. And they gave him critiques. And he went out and did it again. And he ended up getting like almost like one in four.

• 1:15:37Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:15:37Graham Stephan?

  Yes, you're getting a number. It was, I think it was to agree to go on an instant date with him.

• 1:15:42Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:15:43Graham Stephan?

  But the secret was like just general small talk first without any objective was just like chit chatting. And it seemed very natural. And like, obviously you could tell he was awkward in the beginning, but you see his progress through like one through 20. And by 20 in, and he's doing this all in a day, like he's kind of warmed up, doing well and just getting like instant dates.

• 1:16:04Speaker 02

  That's interesting.

• 1:16:05Graham Stephan?

  Getting instant numbers.

• 1:16:06Speaker 02

  It's a lot of work. Yeah. You gotta work on it and just really practice it.

• 1:16:09Jack Selby?

  Do you notice yourself getting better the more you do it?

• 1:16:11Speaker 02

  Well, the thing is they're just so far in between. It's, it's, it's kind of like a restart every time. I had a success, um, two days ago. Uh, where I left a number for a waitress, uh, most beautiful person I've ever, literally most beautiful person I've ever seen. Never seen anyone more beautiful. Left my phone number. She didn't text me, but her cute friend texted me.

• 1:16:31Jack Selby?

  Well, how did that work out?

• 1:16:32Speaker 02

  She just gave it to her friend. She was like, so she's married. So she gave it to her friend.

• 1:16:36Graham Stephan?

  Well, that makes sense.

• 1:16:36Speaker 02

  And she was like, ah, here's this guy. He's cute. And she texted me and she's, she's really cute too.

• 1:16:40Graham Stephan?

  You know what I would do? If, if you're doing this, at least make content out of it, like for members or something like this. No, no, really film it.

• 1:16:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:16:48Jack Selby?

  That would be amazing to watch. I would love to watch.

• 1:16:51Speaker 02

  Well, if you want to apply to be my wife and child bear, go to kalebammer.com/onlyfans. That's where, that's where all is.

• 1:16:58Jack Selby?

  Is it actually a, you know what?

• 1:17:00Speaker 02

  Well, we should make a, we should make a link.

• 1:17:01Jack Selby?

  Like Google Forms. Yeah.

• 1:17:04Graham Stephan?

  Would you ever have a form where people can submit to go on a date with you?

• 1:17:07Speaker 02

  No, unless it was for a show. Unless it was for a show. It'd have to be for a show. I don't think so.

• 1:17:12Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:17:13Speaker 02

  Cause then you just get parasocial. I have a feeling, you know? It would just be like.

• 1:17:16Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:17Speaker 02

  Fan, fan, fan. It's just like.

• 1:17:18Graham Stephan?

  Film, put, put it on a show. Like do what Jubilee does where you have like a sheet in between you. But where you have a sheet in between you and you're just talking to people. You can't see them.

• 1:17:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:28Graham Stephan?

  Uh, and just like have them answer questions and then you pick the one that you like the most out of the top 20. And then you, you go on a date with them and maybe on the date you discuss credit scores and like savings goals and just things like this. And it's a fantastic show.

• 1:17:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. The girl that you picked on your blind date on your. I ended up talking to her just on accident.

• 1:17:51Graham Stephan?

  Oh, really?

• 1:17:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:52Graham Stephan?

  Oh.

• 1:17:52Speaker 02

  But long distance, I don't.

• 1:17:54Graham Stephan?

  Do you tend to get more nervous? This is once again, a bad sounding question, but the more pretty.

• 1:18:00Speaker 02

  Give it to me.

• 1:18:00Graham Stephan?

  The girl is, does it tend to make you more apprehensive to go in and talk to her?

• 1:18:04Speaker 02

  Probably. I'm not nervous on dates, but I'm definitely nervous asking people out.

• 1:18:08Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, that's definitely the scary part.

• 1:18:10Speaker 02

  Um, I think I'm nervous either way because I'm obviously attracted to them if I'm asking them out.

• 1:18:15Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:15Speaker 02

  So I'm like.

• 1:18:17Graham Stephan?

  And have you ever cold approached someone and then they recognize you?

• 1:18:20Speaker 02

  Ooh, I think once. I think I fucking buried that down deep. Uh, yeah, I was like, yeah, but I love your show or I have a boyfriend, but I love your show. One of those.

• 1:18:32Graham Stephan?

  It would be even worse to be like, my boyfriend loves your show.

• 1:18:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. I almost, I

• 1:18:40Speaker 02

  almost asked someone out who, I almost asked for someone's Instagram who came up to me the other day and started talking, but she was with someone.

• 1:18:49Speaker 02

  And I just couldn't do it because it could have been her brother.

• 1:18:51Graham Stephan?

  Here's what you ask. All you, I mean, I'll tell you the way to get around that. How do you guys know each other?

• 1:18:55Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:18:56Graham Stephan?

  Instant.

• 1:18:57Speaker 02

  It's easy.

• 1:18:57Graham Stephan?

  Oh, it's my boyfriend. Oh, cool. How long have you been together? Two years. That's awesome. Hey, the, you know, do you live nearby? Like, and then you just spin it off.

• 1:19:06Speaker 02

  All right.

• 1:19:06Graham Stephan?

  But anytime it's what?

• 1:19:08Speaker 02

  You know, go ahead.

• 1:19:09Graham Stephan?

  I'm anytime they're like.

• 1:19:10Speaker 02

  It's her boyfriend.

• 1:19:11Graham Stephan?

  This is my friend? Now, all you need to do is, is. No, now pay attention to the friend. And like ma- make him feel like he's a part of the conversation.

• 1:19:23Speaker 02

  And ignore her?

• 1:19:24Graham Stephan?

  I think it's a polite thing to do.

• 1:19:26Speaker 02

  To ignore her?

• 1:19:27Graham Stephan?

  No, no, no, no, you just involve everyone in the conversation.

• 1:19:29Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, cool.

• 1:19:30Graham Stephan?

  No, but you, but you chitchat, you chitchat with the guy for a little bit.

• 1:19:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:19:33Graham Stephan?

  You know, because you don't want to make it seem like, all right, I'm going to block you out. All right, good.

• 1:19:37Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 1:19:38Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:38Speaker 02

  I'm always awkward in those encounters anyway, when anyone comes up to me, like, I just never really know what to say. I'm just like, oh, thanks for watching. Uh, fist bump, you know.

• 1:19:46Graham Stephan?

  So if you came up to Caleb a couple of days ago, which is sometime in December.

• 1:19:50Speaker 02

  And home slice.

• 1:19:51Graham Stephan?

  And.

• 1:19:52Speaker 02

  At home.

• 1:19:52Graham Stephan?

  Congress. That's a great, I've been meeting, I'm going to go there when I'm here. It's a great pizza spot. If you came up to Caleb and you had a gentleman with you.

• 1:19:59Jack Selby?

  Slide into his DMs.

• 1:20:00Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 1:20:01Jack Selby?

  Calebhammer.com/onlyfans.

• 1:20:03Speaker 02

  It's cute.

• 1:20:04Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, don't be afraid to ask how they know each other. It's always.

• 1:20:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's smart. It's really smart. So I don't know. Did I think about that?

• 1:20:09Jack Selby?

  What about dating apps?

• 1:20:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, that I mean, that's where I get the majority of my dates is Hinge and Bumble. Those are the two I use.

• 1:20:14Jack Selby?

  Hinge and Bumble. What do you find to be more successful?

• 1:20:16Speaker 02

  Um, whatever one I'm focusing on. I can't do both at the same time. So I'm just like going in on one.

• 1:20:21Jack Selby?

  And what do you think about dating fans? Do you think that's a weird thing? Like someone who watches your content?

• 1:20:25Speaker 02

  Hmm. Okay, it's really difficult because um,

• 1:20:29Speaker 02

  I have, I'm in a weird situation now where it's like almost anyone and everyone that I just like me in general has at least seen a clip because clips have gone viral or now they're like, I've seen the Rocket Money commercial, you know? So it's like they've seen the face. So a lot of people know who I am, where they are in the stage of like, oh, I'm a Tiger Heart fan, or oh, yeah, I just know you exist. That's what I don't know. So I would totally cool to go on a date with like, unless we get to the parasocial weirdness where it's like they know everything about me. I know nothing about them. That's a bit weird. I accidentally went on the one of those dates. They didn't, they didn't tell me until during. Um, it wasn't a very good date, but if someone knows of my existence, that's totally fine. Totally fine. I know there's conversations around power dynamics and stuff, but

• 1:21:14Speaker 02

  I don't know. It's really weird. Uh, again, things.

• 1:21:17Graham Stephan?

  I think it's impossible to to not have a power dynamic in some capacity, like even if you have a really beautiful woman and like an average looking dude, there's gonna be a.

• 1:21:25Jack Selby?

  Income difference.

• 1:21:25Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, but there's gonna be a power dynamic there just because she'll have more options than the guy.

• 1:21:30Speaker 02

  That's the conversation that Twitter tends to fail to have with power dynamics is everything has a power dynamic. Technically, you have a power dynamic right now because you guys are gonna edit this and whatever it is is what it is. That's fine. Even if I have a say, like there is a power dynamic. Power dynamic between a teacher and a student and a mother and a daughter and a me and my pet. There's a power dynamic anywhere. Power dynamics are not a bad thing. Abuse of power dynamic is a bad thing. And how do you abuse it? Everyone always brings up, there's a power dynamic. That's not a bad thing. It's like, hey, you don't get to come on this show unless you do this naughty bad thing. That's an abuse of a power dynamic. That's what people need to freak out about. But so I wouldn't have the issue of them knowing I exist and us getting dinner. That that wouldn't be

• 1:22:14Speaker 02

  a too big of a deal for me. It just gets weird. If it's parasocial, then that's just when I'm not having fun anymore. It's like, you know, everything about me. That's just me trying to, you know. This just gets weird.

• 1:22:26Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. So I've noticed you lean a lot lately into relationship dynamics. What have you noticed between almost counseling couples with their finances?

• 1:22:36Speaker 02

  I do not know why, but they do not talk about their fucking money. Why don't they talk? No one talks to each other about their money. There's always a hidden debt we discover almost every episode. There's a hidden debt and they just don't talk about it. Or when they go to have the conversation, one becomes bickering and nagging towards the other person. The other person becomes mute and never wants to participate in that conversation again. The communication around finance in this country, especially among couples is horrendous. I don't get it. We've never had one couple on the show where the communication is not at least bad in some way.

• 1:23:07Graham Stephan?

  Who spends more money, men or women?

• 1:23:09Speaker 02

  On our show, I don't know the real answer, but on our show, it's been the dudes.

• 1:23:15Graham Stephan?

  Hmm. What are they spending it on?

• 1:23:16Speaker 02

  They get their tool debt and they get their Ford and, you know, they get their manly toys.

• 1:23:22Graham Stephan?

  Their OnlyFans.

• 1:23:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. They always have some truck in the back that they're gonna fix. They're gonna fix, you know? And but there's a car payment on it still, even though it's not running.

• 1:23:35Graham Stephan?

  So why do you think they're not talking? Is it the guy who just purely doesn't want to like involve his wife or girlfriend, fiance in his own finances? Are there, are there shared finances or is it separate?

• 1:23:47Speaker 02

  It becomes an argument every single time, every single time. They just, it always becomes a blame game or they feel like it's a blame game. Like we're calling out these purchases. What? You calling out this stuff that I'm buying? Oh, like it's all my fault. You think it's all my fault? It always becomes an argument. They don't know how to communicate it in a healthy way.

• 1:24:05Graham Stephan?

  When you have couples on the show like that though, what dynamics do you notice do not work? Like, can you tell if people are a good fit for each other or not?

• 1:24:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's definitely the, the independent versus codependent people. Um, I'm sure they can figure out in other aspects of marriage, but when one person wants their finances to be their finances and the other one wants to achieve these goals together, getting to retirement together, paying off these debts together.

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• 1:25:26Speaker 02

  Nope. And the comments are always like, we'll see divorce follow up in six months, you know? It's like, well, I wonder if they're just not on that same page. I know finance isn't the leading cause of divorce in the country, but it's one of the major ones. And if one person just like, hey, this is my money. I'll bring in my money. I want to spend my money, you know? Yeah.

• 1:25:46Graham Stephan?

  So what's your advice for couples?

• 1:25:48Speaker 02

  Definitely the, you need to go into the conversation about budgeting. If it's your first time in a non-competitive spirit, not doing accusations of, oh, why'd you spend this much money on this toy? It shouldn't have been that. Let's document where the money was spent, not who spent it. And just what are the goals we want to do? What does it take to get there? And then budget for those goals equally.

• 1:26:13Graham Stephan?

  Do you think a saver could live a happy life with a spender?

• 1:26:16Speaker 02

  As long as they're willing to hit the goals together. I think so. If the, if the spender wants to overtake and not hit any of the goals that the saver wants to get to, I think that's pretty hard. And if the saver's not willing to have any fun that the spender wants to do, then I think that's going to be hard as well. But if they're at least willing to set reasonable goals that they want to get to together, and they're both willing to make their compromises. To get there, I think that's fair.

• 1:26:43Graham Stephan?

  I've noticed mental health has came up in your show a lot. I mean, it's nearly every episode at this point.

• 1:26:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:50Graham Stephan?

  What percentage would you just generally say that is part of the equation of these people's poor financial standings?

• 1:26:56Speaker 02

  In terms of them bringing it up, 99%. In terms of it actually impacted them, probably closer to 25%. I've had people with real issues and we want to help them out. A lot of people that get backed into the corner and they'll bring up some mental health thing. We have an interesting, I'm very curious, 20 years when they look back in this period of culture, what they're gonna say. A lot of it is on TikTok right now of the mental health and trauma Olympics. Has to be one upping each other, has to be, here's my trauma, here's this thing. And then people get convinced that they have a trauma and a mental health thing. It's this one upping, one upping, one upping, and lots of self diagnosis. I've had way too many people that come on the show, they get backed into the corner of like, hey, you are wrong for this. This is what you need to do to fix it. And then they have some self diagnosis that they never had through a mental health professional.

• 1:27:39Speaker 02

  I will respect it and I will take it seriously when you talk to a professional and they at least give an inkling that you might have something. Even if it's not an official diagnosis, that is when I will respect it. But if you are getting pushed back on for the first time in your life and you say, well, my anxiety is too high.

• 1:27:57Graham Stephan?

  Is this all just because we become a little too soft and a little too like gentle with each other? That people just aren't getting the reality of the situation? Can't just be told, hey, get your act together. Like, that's not okay. That's not cool.

• 1:28:11Speaker 02

  Maybe, that might be a part of it. I still really think just the way social media is, you know, I'm on the cusp of Gen Z. You're technically Gen Z. A lot of that generation that we're involved in or on the cusp of is, it really is kind of the Olympics of just how bad are things? Like, you have to be, you have to have the worst trauma, you have to have the worst situation. And it gets the best engagement. You get rewarded for it on the platforms and I don't know, that's a big part of it. And then people are convinced that they have a trauma. Like, someone will tell a story and then like comments will flood and you're, you know, you've been through so much trauma and all this stuff. You're a victim in all this and it's just, we get flooded.

• 1:28:49Graham Stephan?

  Why do you think the victim mentality? Lately has seen such a resurgence.

• 1:28:54Speaker 02

  I'm sure we ebb and flow through everything, right? We haven't flowed through the cultures. We had the sexual revolution in what 60s, 70s, 80s? And now we're almost having like an anti-sexual revolution amongst the youngest people where like, people can't date, people are really lonely and like people aren't even willing to have the conversations about sex. I feel like we probably ebb and flow through this.

• 1:29:13Graham Stephan?

  You know, it's interesting. I saw on Twitter, the amount of people who thought the founding fathers were heroes were evil. The majority of Gen Z believed that the founding fathers were evil versus heroes versus boomers who almost all thought they were heroes. It's interesting to see just how culture has shifted and how people's mindset is going towards a, let's focus on the bad.

• 1:29:40Speaker 02

  You're also more rebellious when you're younger too, right?

• 1:29:42Graham Stephan?

  Okay. All right. You know what? Then I'll give you that. That's something I didn't think of.

• 1:29:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. You know, he's got to push back, be against the man.

• 1:29:51Graham Stephan?

  That's true.

• 1:29:52Speaker 02

  Everything's, you know, we're fighting the system.

• 1:29:54Graham Stephan?

  So what are the biggest success stories that you've seen from financial audit?

• 1:29:57Speaker 02

  We've had our new financial audit follow-up channel. We've had quite a few people come on completely debt-free, get in that emergency fund, starting to make progress towards those goals. Every time we see that, it's the most rewarding thing of the show. You know, actually seeing those real results because you can get lost in the, you know, filming every day, making sure the uploads are going well, all that stuff. When you see real people getting real results, that is definitely.

• 1:30:23Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. So what do you do when they leave the show? Like, how do you, how do you support them and make sure that they stay on the right track?

• 1:30:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. So what we tell them specifically for communication and everything, we say, hey, we filmed with a few hundred guests. Reach out to us for anything. We'll reach out to here and there, but the main thing is if you need anything or any questions at all, you reach out to us. What we give them is access to our Discord and private Discord for past guests where they can cheer each other on. We give them our budgeting class, our investing class and our debt class. And then we give them the free app forever, free budgeting app forever. And then we, any resources they personally want and ask for, they get, they get a free certification through Course Careers for, you know, income help.

• 1:31:10Speaker 02

  They get three free therapy sessions now every once in a while with the, uh, some other financial advisors that I use. They can get some free sessions to sit down with them, or if they don't, we'll at least cover that session. So anything and everything they need, and then any questions they have along the way, they can reach out. And then we have them for follow-up channels and reassess.

• 1:31:29Graham Stephan?

  So here's what I'm curious about. How many guests are really unhappy with a thumbnail?

• 1:31:35Speaker 02

  Um, at this, at well before, you know, in the first year, you know, decent, you know, a few here and there. Now basically none. Basically are, are.

• 1:31:45Graham Stephan?

  There are some that, that I'm, I'm looking at where I see them posted because I, uh.

• 1:31:49Speaker 02

  Dude, they're so much fun. But the thing is, the thing is, the onboarding process is so fucking extensive. They probably hear.

• 1:31:57Graham Stephan?

  Dude, these are funny. I'm gonna kill him. Nasty woman, girl man. I deserve his money. Fuck you. Pay me. Parasite.

• 1:32:08Speaker 02

  With every single one of them, the first phone call they have, it is told about the titles and thumbnail. Plus again, they're from the audience. They literally see it.

• 1:32:16Graham Stephan?

  But how, how about this one? Controlling husband exploits young bride to serve.

• 1:32:23Speaker 02

  That was a, that was a good one.

• 1:32:25Graham Stephan?

  How do, how do they, cause it got 722,000 views. I guarantee that this, this person's like, boss sees that, their coworkers see that, their family sees that.

• 1:32:35Speaker 02

  And, and they are a hundred bajillion percent aware that every time, most people tell everyone around them that they're coming on. Their coworkers, they ask permission from their boss, a lot of people, you know, there, there's a lot that goes into it. And we give them the warnings of all that as well, so they can prepare for it. But they are asked permission, I probably two times for the thumbnail and title before they come on. They're asked permission in the green room, then they watch the onboarding video, going over the thumbnail processes. Then if you go in the green room, you'll see our thumbnails in there with titles under them.

• 1:33:03Graham Stephan?

  Good idea. Okay.

• 1:33:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, they are given literally every opportunity in the world.

• 1:33:09Speaker 02

  Every there, we've gone beyond extensive. I've seen other YouTubers react to our content and they're in, you know, other Brent video where we kind of go over the process of how we do it and they're like, I mean, you guys don't need to be doing all this type of, this is, this is overboard. You guys are going overboard on your onboarding process. These people could just look up the channel before they come on and know what they're getting into.

• 1:33:30Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:30Speaker 02

  Which is true. I mean, why fucking baby people? You're an adult. Know what you're fucking doing, you know? You're going on a show, but also fuck it. We do have a responsibility in my mind. I wouldn't feel morally comfortable if we weren't giving them every opportunity in the world to know exactly what they're doing. So.

• 1:33:49Graham Stephan?

  But even then, do you ever, do you ever get people still saying after the fact? I don't like it. Or it's like, hey, I know what I'm getting into. I understand it. I'm an adult.

• 1:33:59Speaker 02

  They are so beyond aware. They are so beyond aware at this point that we don't get a single complaint. We change the process any and every time that there ever is a complaint. So if we ever had, the reason the onboarding process exists is honestly because of someone like Brent. I was like, I didn't know the thumbnail would have me crying or something. It's like, okay, we changed the process. You make it better. It's always about growth and making it better.

• 1:34:27Graham Stephan?

  Now I'm curious in terms of your overall business, like I gotta say, you know, Jack and I showing up here, a lot has changed. It's incredible. Like we walked into a different business than we did before.

• 1:34:38Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:34:39Graham Stephan?

  How has it changed from your perspective?

• 1:34:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, we're just really, building the business is my favorite thing. It's just fun. It's not only a hobby, but I'm competitive with myself. You know, there's a lot of avenues we're going into with the special project, whether or not that's in this video.

• 1:34:58Speaker 02

  Uh, further diversifying our content with your week in money and financial follow ups. You know, we do have our education now. So we have marketing with that. Our, you know, our big, our biggest part of the business is still the video side. So, you know, we have their shorts editor and then two video editors and then an ad editor and then, um, and then, you know, three people soon on the casting side. So that's pretty big. We also have the inside sales rep who's able to go get sponsors that I want and stuff like that.

• 1:35:25Graham Stephan?

  You you have surpassed everything that I like. Every everything that I could imagine should be done like you've done that plus.

• 1:35:33Jack Selby?

  And effectively too.

• 1:35:35Speaker 02

  There's only a million things more I want to do.

• 1:35:37Graham Stephan?

  Part of me wonders like I'm intimidated by seeing all the people and all the backend. Infrastructure that you have set up. How do you learn how to do that? I feel like I would just be kind of lost with, you know?

• 1:35:49Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I mean, you don't do it all at once, right? You grow it and like I brought on my friend and also past coworker, Robert, who, you know, he's also really good at this and we put our heads together a lot and. Uh, you know, we work on it together and. Uh, you know, I throw him a lot of the more miscellaneous tasks, a lot of the HR, a lot of stuff like that. So.

• 1:36:11Speaker 02

  So I don't know. You surround yourself with the right people, you vet people well. We've never had. Any bad experience with any employees. So everything's been good. Um, we even before people are hired, we bring them in for a day just to see if they culture fit. And stuff because we're a little rambunctious and, you know, we like to have fun. So it's just, I don't know. I think if you put in the right investment, it works out.

• 1:36:34Graham Stephan?

  How do you keep people motivated?

• 1:36:35Speaker 02

  Uh, we, I like relatively robust bonus structure. Some people are on like quarterly structures. Some people, if they hit certain metrics on what they're working on, they get bonuses. But also since I think it is a fun place to work in general compared to like, if you're going to go to most corporations, I think. People like to see the end results. I know people got fired up today when we got the, uh, uh, the results of the 10,000 hours paid off in 10 months median thing like that's really good. To hear, um, I don't know, just seeing the growth. Everyone has such an integral part that no one is just here because they're here and they're not. There's not one person that you could take away and oh, it's okay.

• 1:37:11Graham Stephan?

  In terms of the revenue, could you break it down on like a pie chart in terms of where it comes from? Like you don't have to say a specific number, just. Percentage terms like.

• 1:37:19Speaker 02

  Off the top of my head, I'm pretty bad at that.

• 1:37:21Graham Stephan?

  Really?

• 1:37:21Speaker 02

  Let me give you the exact one. Can you get my laptop from the table now? It's Grandma Jack. I want to give him the best.

• 1:37:28Graham Stephan?

  Alright.

• 1:37:29Speaker 02

  Give him the best.

• 1:37:30Graham Stephan?

  I actually really like these.

• 1:37:32Speaker 02

  I do too. Dude, they're so nice. They're neetos. They don't even sponsor, but I'll say it.

• 1:37:35Graham Stephan?

  If you could find a way to manufacture these and sell them, I swear, like, this is the coolest thing I've held in my hand.

• 1:37:42Speaker 02

  Okay, no, November, um, November ad rates for the YouTube channel was thirty-two point eight percent. Uh, one dedicated sponsor was eleven percent, membership was seven percent, another dedicated sponsor was fourteen point four, and a bunch of other little follow-up, different ads, Patreon, that kind of crap. And then our secondary channels, that all adds up to about, I think it looks like, oh, ten percent. Um, and then all other minor sponsorships coming together for fifteen point four, and then classes at eleven, uh, but no.

• 1:38:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:38:22Graham Stephan?

  That's pretty healthy in terms of diversification. How do you plan to expand that over time?

• 1:38:27Speaker 02

  I want to make our education system more robust. We don't want to go for anything cash grabby. Um, we just, there's just such a bad negative connotation, and fairly so, of like, other influencers or gurus out there who've just like, put out classes and they're just shitty, you know? That's why we do like, oh, a month, take the class. If you didn't find it valuable, we'll refund you, no questions asked. And also, our refund rate is, uh, twenty-five percent of industry average. So like, we know we're doing things right.

• 1:38:54Graham Stephan?

  And the refund rate overall is what, like, three percent, two percent?

• 1:38:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:38:57Graham Stephan?

  It's like, lower than that. It's like, really low.

• 1:38:59Speaker 02

  And ours is twenty-five percent of that. So, I know we're, so we want to build that out, make sure we're actually providing value. Then again, with the special project, uh, whether or not that was announced, that'll be, uh, now hopefully a part, building out our YouTube membership is a really helpful part as well. And we do all these dedicated shows behind it, behind the, uh, paywall there, and that helps support the ups and downs and everything, so.

• 1:39:20Graham Stephan?

  I'll tell you what I think you need to do. I'll give you my unsolicited advice. Get a guy on the street. I think a man on the street, sort of, style, right now for shorts, that you could turn into long-form, like, fifteen-minute videos. I love this channel, The School of Hard Knocks. Have you seen this guy?

• 1:39:34Speaker 02

  I guess so.

• 1:39:35Graham Stephan?

  He goes, "What do you do for a living?" Like, I love that. They're great videos. And this guy has no fear going up to like, strangers, "Hey, had, had, were you ever broke before? How'd you make your money?" I love his channel. Get a guy who's like really good going up to strangers on the street and you're in the perfect spot for it. Like the bar scene, but instead of the pickup videos where they're like flirting with women, talk about money, talk about finances, have couples on it, on like-

• 1:39:57Speaker 02

  On a job?

• 1:39:58Graham Stephan?

  On the-

• 1:39:59Speaker 02

  I would do it.

• 1:39:59Graham Stephan?

  Jack would actually be fantastic-

• 1:40:00Speaker 02

  I just, I, I did it already. I just-

• 1:40:02Graham Stephan?

  I know.

• 1:40:02Speaker 02

  The editing. I couldn't stand the production.

• 1:40:04Graham Stephan?

  You were really good at it, man. You had a good knack at that.

• 1:40:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, they did well. I would do it, but I just don't want to produce it. Yeah, that's fair.

• 1:40:12Graham Stephan?

  That's what I would do. So I would do the man on the street. That's its own segment, different from you. Then what I would, what I think would be really interesting, and I'm giving you all the ideas that I just don't have the energy for, but I know they would do well. Uh, have an attorney on that goes through legal issues for people. So it's like they'll get like a free attorney, but like imagine I come to you and like, you were talking about the landlord issue.

• 1:40:32Speaker 02

  Nobody's still decided to-

• 1:40:33Graham Stephan?

  Totally. And, yeah.

• 1:40:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:40:34Graham Stephan?

  And I just say like, hey dude, my landlord is this and that. And there's like, can I see your lease? Show the lease and then kind of go over it, but it's like, uh, you know, we came up, oh, there's another one. Okay. So the legal, a legal thing. The next thing I'd love for you to do is a fitness audit.

• 1:40:51Speaker 02

  Okay. Oh, I'll have to hire someone for that one.

• 1:40:54Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, it doesn't have to be, I'm not talking like you, but I think hire-

• 1:40:57Speaker 02

  It'd be funny coming from the biggest on YouTube.

• 1:40:59Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, hire someone, hire someone who's just like, you know, ripped, but basically to do a, like Jack.

• 1:41:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're all yours.

• 1:41:08Graham Stephan?

  Do a fitness audit of people where they could go through, and this is, this is a lot more work. But like go through and like go through their diet. Like you go through someone's finances, go through like, have them track what they eat for like a month or for a week or something like this.

• 1:41:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:41:23Graham Stephan?

  Something like that. But they go through and it's like, you ate a cheeseburger. What are you thinking you did? Pancakes with this and this mocha thing. That's 700 calories. Like-

• 1:41:32Speaker 02

  Now that'll really outrage Reddit.

• 1:41:35Graham Stephan?

  But you know what?

• 1:41:36Speaker 02

  You fat shamer.

• 1:41:38Graham Stephan?

  I think that would be, that would be good. And like, you know, Put them on the spot in a place that they could get healthy and could learn the proper exercises and ways that they could get in shape and diversifying away from you. I think that that's the only thing I would do. And eventually you have the Caleb Hammer, the the audit brand. Cause right now you got financial audit. I want to see fitness audit. I want to see legal audit.

• 1:42:02Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:42:02Graham Stephan?

  That's it. I want to see the man on the street.

• 1:42:04Speaker 02

  Why aren't you doing things?

• 1:42:06Graham Stephan?

  It's not the energy for it.

• 1:42:07Speaker 02

  Oh, come on, you're not old yet.

• 1:42:09Graham Stephan?

  I have zero motivation to do it. Like to me, it sounds daunting. It sounds like a ton of work and I'm like, do I really want to do that? Probably not.

• 1:42:16Speaker 02

  Is this the guy you want to partner with? Are you sure you don't want to?

• 1:42:19Graham Stephan?

  Well, Jack is not motivation either. I'm trying to put Jack in the shade.

• 1:42:22Jack Selby?

  That's false. I, the thing is, we're both passionate about what we're passionate about and it's hard to expand the parameters. Right now, the iced coffee hour for me is all I want. It's all I need. I would consider doing other things, but most of the time the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Like I want to go and I want to make straight interview videos, but at the same time I don't want to do all of the post-production process. I want to go try this thing out, but I know that that's going to also, it's going to be all of this auxiliary work with any other venture that's taken on.

• 1:42:45Speaker 02

  There's nothing wrong with hiring people. Hiring good.

• 1:42:50Graham Stephan?

  I don't like.

• 1:42:50Jack Selby?

  We pay a lot of like agencies to do certain things for us and we have a few people that we pay to take care of a lot of our responsibilities. So we, we don't really have any like full-time things, employees, but we do have money going out to several different people that provide services for us that make our lives easier.

• 1:43:08Speaker 02

  You like third parties? Cause that's the thing, we're trying to in-house almost everything, cause I feel like no one cares.

• 1:43:13Jack Selby?

  You, you make a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot more than us.

• 1:43:16Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, okay. Well, maybe if you in-house things more, you would be able to make things better though.

• 1:43:21Jack Selby?

  True.

• 1:43:21Speaker 02

  Like that's why we in-house our sources.

• 1:43:23Graham Stephan?

  To me, it's management, right? To me, it's management. It's now we have to manage someone and oversee that. I don't like what's?

• 1:43:29Speaker 02

  You like meetings, like sitting down and just making things better? Just like strategizing and like getting in the weeds? I love getting in and just like, let's figure this shit out.

• 1:43:38Graham Stephan?

  I love title thumbnail strategy conversations like this.

• 1:43:42Graham Stephan?

  This I love. Title thumbnail, I like. And then the review process of making sure the episode is perfect.

• 1:43:49Speaker 02

  Nothing I hate more than sitting down and making a thumbnail.

• 1:43:52Jack Selby?

  I would prefer to build out like systems than I would that stuff, honestly.

• 1:43:56Graham Stephan?

  Really?

• 1:43:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, we all sit in that room over there and we spend an hour, three days a week making titles and thumbnails and I, I've

• 1:44:03Graham Stephan?

  Could always hire me.

• 1:44:04Speaker 02

  Never felt a noose around my neck.

• 1:44:05Graham Stephan?

  Hire me as a consultant.

• 1:44:06Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:44:07Graham Stephan?

  That's all it is, man.

• 1:44:08Speaker 02

  Ah, you'd make ours too nice. They wouldn't be as fun and rowdy anymore.

• 1:44:11Graham Stephan?

  Give you, uh, give you some good ideas.

• 1:44:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:14Graham Stephan?

  So in terms of your own finances, you mentioned in the past that you're worried about dying poor in a Walmart floor. Are you still worried about that?

• 1:44:22Speaker 02

  Maybe my worries changed. Maybe I'm less worried about that.

• 1:44:26Speaker 02

  And I want them. I'm worried about that getting old wife kids thing. Like, I don't know.

• 1:44:29Graham Stephan?

  Interesting. Should it shift it?

• 1:44:31Speaker 02

  Maybe it shifted. I don't know. I did the whole, uh, you know, drama thing and stuff like that, you know, kinda was like bullshit online and now I just like, don't fear anything like that anymore.

• 1:44:43Jack Selby?

  It's interesting because even just a year ago when we last talked to you, you still maintained that you were worried about dying poor on a Walmart floor. But now in just one year, that's not really something that you think about too often?

• 1:44:53Speaker 02

  Not as much. I think because I hit that safety goal.

• 1:44:55Jack Selby?

  So it really was achieving the goal because I know a lot of people, they achieve their certain financial goal and then they continue to extend that.

• 1:45:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, I mean, I have stretch goals that I'd like to get to out of competitiveness with myself, of course. Uh, but that was my like safety goal. Hmm. Safety goal. And I hit it.

• 1:45:10Graham Stephan?

  And you don't feel as worried about money now that you've hit that?

• 1:45:14Speaker 02

  No, not at least everything collapsing. No.

• 1:45:16Graham Stephan?

  Do you worry about everything collapsing?

• 1:45:18Speaker 02

  Well, if everything collapsed, I'd be fine. Unless everything collapsed countrywide, but then we'd all be fucked.

• 1:45:23Graham Stephan?

  Sure. That's interesting. I've not noticed much of a correlation between me feeling like financially secure and money.

• 1:45:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:30Graham Stephan?

  It's just, I still feel the same.

• 1:45:33Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:45:34Graham Stephan?

  But that's probably more of a mental thing.

• 1:45:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:36Graham Stephan?

  I'm still kinda like looking over expenses. I'm still kinda thinking about like, do I really need that on Amazon? Probably not.

• 1:45:44Speaker 02

  I could give you three free therapy sessions if you need.

• 1:45:46Graham Stephan?

  I'm good. I'm good.

• 1:45:48Speaker 02

  Talk to a financial therapist, maybe.

• 1:45:51Graham Stephan?

  I'm gonna tell you a huge life hack.

• 1:45:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:53Graham Stephan?

  Huge. This'll save you all your money on taxes. Marry someone who's a real estate professional. All of a sudden now, real estate losses can be deducted against your active income. Assuming she's full time in real estate. So now, here's what this means. Let's just say, I'm just round numbers here. You make a million dollars in a year. Now you're paying taxes on that million dollars at 37%. Let's just call it 300 grand wiped away, gone, poof. Done forever. But your wife is a real estate professional. Well, guess what? Now you buy a commercial property with $500,000 down. It's a $2 million property. Now, on that $2 million property, you could do what's called cost segregation analysis.

• 1:46:34Graham Stephan?

  Where basically they go in and they say, hey, this ceiling has a lifespan of 15 years. These floors have a lifespan of seven years. Here's the value of all of this. Here's the depreciation schedule. And here's what we could take bonus depreciation on. So maybe on that $2 million billing, again, round numbers. You get a million dollars of active losses as a write off. Now, all of a sudden, you got a million dollar income, a million dollars of losses. Merge the two, zero tax whatsoever.

• 1:47:01Speaker 02

  Putting that on the dating profile?

• 1:47:02Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:03Speaker 02

  Must be real estate.

• 1:47:04Graham Stephan?

  Now, here's the thing, in fairness, that does lower your cost basis on the real estate. So if you were to sell, that then becomes active income. You're gonna have to pay the taxes.

• 1:47:14Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:47:14Graham Stephan?

  The goal is that you just keep 1031, exchanging the properties. You keep tax deferring it and you build a whole nest egg of tax free income. Then eventually you die. And you could leave, I think as of now, it's $28 million tax free to your heirs. Or you could do a trust and there's other things that you could do on that. There you go.

• 1:47:33Speaker 02

  No one will complain about 28 million.

• 1:47:35Graham Stephan?

  No.

• 1:47:36Speaker 02

  So that's pretty good. That'd be crazy.

• 1:47:38Graham Stephan?

  That would be a crazy, yeah.

• 1:47:40Speaker 02

  Fucking, that'd be a crazy number.

• 1:47:41Jack Selby?

  This sounds pretty, you know, aggressive, but have you ever considered trying like Ozempic?

• 1:47:47Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, needles. Really. Big scared. Big scared guy.

• 1:47:52Graham Stephan?

  What if someone else does it for you?

• 1:47:53Speaker 02

  What's the needles?

• 1:47:54Graham Stephan?

  What if you don't look at it? I hear it. I hear it's like a pen, right?

• 1:47:58Speaker 02

  No, the idea of a needle existing is already making my legs go queasy.

• 1:48:02Jack Selby?

  Interesting. Okay.

• 1:48:03Speaker 02

  It's like, ugh.

• 1:48:04Jack Selby?

  That's fair. I was, I was just curious about that because I know a lot of people are trying it. It's very effective. I've heard not, you know, advice there, but I've heard it works.

• 1:48:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, one thing I would be interested in it. It's kind of like debt consolidation, right? So you still need to change the behavior. Also, it's not going to be sustainable long-term. Like you can debt consolidate, but if you don't change the behavior, you're building those credit cards all the way back up. So like, I'd be open to it. It wasn't, if you guys ever see me become skinny, it's probably not because of Ozempic because I'm a little pussy with needles. So.

• 1:48:30Graham Stephan?

  No tattoos either?

• 1:48:31Speaker 02

  Uh-uh. I'd love a bass clef though. Bass clef right here. Musical bass.

• 1:48:35Graham Stephan?

  That would be cool.

• 1:48:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, for my trombone days.

• 1:48:38Graham Stephan?

  You know what I would do is a bass clef on the one side and a hammer.

• 1:48:42Speaker 02

  A hammer? I could not do a hammer.

• 1:48:43Jack Selby?

  A hammer would be a little too much, I think.

• 1:48:46Graham Stephan?

  You don't think a hammer?

• 1:48:47Speaker 02

  No, it's so egotistical, just like weird.

• 1:48:50Jack Selby?

  Yeah, yeah. What is a criticism that you get a lot that you think is completely invalid?

• 1:48:55Speaker 02

  Um, no, you guys brought up the interesting one earlier. The, what, what did you guys call it? Ah, not taking advantage.

• 1:49:02Graham Stephan?

  Do you, are you exploiting poor people?

• 1:49:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, that, that one I think because of just our entire process that people just aren't privy to. It's like, I can see the criticism because they're not informed of everything going into it, but it just, it feels. Knowing everything we do and the conversations we have with them, it feels very invalid. Listen, if we never change the process from two and a half years ago when I was just in my kitchen, you know, in my condo filming the show. Like, yes, okay, that would be different. But if we're putting in the work, we're putting in the change and everyone said, we're getting very positive experiences across the board, except for a few misses here and there where we changed the process. Yes, I would agree, but that's just, I don't know. It's, it's bad takes. Again, everyone's just, one thing is, is it's really interesting online that I think.

• 1:49:49Speaker 02

  Actually, no, it's it's I don't know. You never want to I've watched podcasts now or influencers or whatever. I guess if that's what we are are on it and then they make a complaint and it's just like there's no point. No one can relate to it. It's it's so silly. So I don't know.

• 1:50:08Graham Stephan?

  I'm talking about like, don't you hate it when you have to take your Lamborghini for service?

• 1:50:11Jack Selby?

  Oh, like I heard a big one was like, streaming is harder than a nine to five.

• 1:50:15Speaker 02

  Well, that shit's crazy, but I meant more like, like, uh, just thinking about criticisms, you know? Cause no one, you can't know what it's like to get that overwhelming sense of mountains of criticism and hate against you. You can't, you do not know what that is like until you're in the position. And I always saw people do that. And then I was like, oh, the fuck dude, this is the coolest thing in the world. And I do have the coolest thing in the world now, and I'm so blessed for that. I do see that I never understood it before. I understand. Oh, it's overwhelming when the internet's coming after you for a second, you know? This is crazy. This is, you can't.

• 1:50:51Jack Selby?

  People are getting way too comfortable, uh, throwing hate out of the people. And people are getting more and more aggressive to the point of it just being blatant bullying. And people bandwagon, like I see things on Instagram where I saw this really sad video recently is of a flight attendant. It was like a, not an older lady, but you know, like middle aged or so, and she was working a job just simply minding her own business as a flight attendant. These people walk into the plane and they have this massive dog. And, uh, it was captioned, service dogs have gone too far because it was like a Great Dane or something. They're bringing it on the, on the plane. The Great Dane steps on the, the flight attendant's foot and she goes, ow, ow. And she's saying, have a good day or have a safe flight to everybody that comes in, but the Great Dane stepped on her foot.

• 1:51:32Jack Selby?

  She said, ow, in kind of a disturbed tone. And one of the comments was just hate for the flight attendant. And it had an arrow pointing towards the like button and it had like a hundred likes. And I'm thinking to myself, this flight, because she sounded annoyed. And I'm thinking to myself, This person is sending a hundred plus people at least, that was just after it had been posted for a little bit. At this random lady, she didn't agree to be filmed, she's doing her job, you have no idea what she's going through, she's a human just like you, she has her own struggles, she's in her own world. As are you. And I'm like, it's unreal how comfortable people are just saying, hate for this person, like this comment, and they're farming engagement. Oh, yeah.

• 1:52:14Speaker 02

  Everything's engagement farming now.

• 1:52:16Jack Selby?

  But to do it in the most egregious and unacceptable way for this poor lady who had no idea what was going on, she's just doing her own job, especially when someone's doing their job. You know what I mean? I just, the thing that honestly, one of my biggest pet peeves is making fun of people for whatever job that they have.

• 1:52:29Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, that's crazy.

• 1:52:31Jack Selby?

  I don't know, and she, it just really, it's kind of, you know, riling me up.

• 1:52:35Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I can tell.

• 1:52:36Jack Selby?

  But it was pretty upsetting, and I made a very long comment back to it.

• 1:52:39Speaker 02

  Oh, good.

• 1:52:39Jack Selby?

  And I, and I was like, and then I said, hate for this comment. I didn't say hate to this person in my response, but I just said hate for this comment.

• 1:52:47Speaker 02

  Everything's engagement bait now. I mean, this is what you're seeing everywhere. I forgot, the one thing I was trying to say, I got lost in my thoughts. The one thing I was trying to say, the thing that I think I don't like is in the world of online, it's if they don't like your content. They will just assume the worst about you in every instance. And I think one thing that kind of sucks is I enjoy making people happy, watching the content, being happy, and I want people to like the show. And if people don't like the show, that's okay, that sucks. It's just, I don't know, that's what I struggled with, I think, towards the beginning of this year, end of last year, maybe when we first met, whereas it's like, people just assume the worst, they get parasocial, they just

• 1:53:28Speaker 02

  make all these assumptions and that, that sucked. But it's been a good year, move beyond that, you know, just kind of don't look at that stuff and just out of sight, out of mind. But I guess, based on your question, that's the one thing that just kind of annoys me, those two things. That criticism that you brought up that, yeah, I've seen that a couple of times online, I'm like, gosh, you don't know the process. And then it says, yeah, people just assume the worst, and it's really weird, it's really weird.

• 1:53:53Jack Selby?

  And lastly, on quitting YouTube.

• 1:53:55Speaker 02

  Ah.

• 1:53:55Jack Selby?

  Because I know you've previously mentioned quite a few times that you've always. Not been the biggest fan of being like a camera facing personality on YouTube. You're not a huge fan of any sort of fame, even though, you know, I wouldn't consider YouTubers famous, but they're definitely recognizable and famous to some extent.

• 1:54:11Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:54:11Jack Selby?

  You know what I mean? With parasocial relationships and just being recognized. How do you feel about that? Do you still want to quit YouTube?

• 1:54:18Speaker 02

  No, I'm, I'm very happy now. I'm very happy.

• 1:54:22Jack Selby?

  What changed?

• 1:54:23Speaker 02

  Based on exactly what we were just talking about. Once I learned how to separate from online and just accept that not everyone's gonna like me, not everyone's gonna like the show, and that's okay. And that sometime, you know, people will scream into the void. That's okay. I can, I can be happy. That's what used to get to me. And I was just like, I just want to step away from this and just help manage it. Now I get to meet with people every day, film, put out things, put out episodes that are literally changing tens of thousands of people's lives and getting positive results. And also entertaining people, getting people through the workday. The fact that we get to do that and people actually show up and watch three days a week is the most insane blessing in the world. And I couldn't see doing anything else. I love this to my core.

• 1:55:06Jack Selby?

  Did you stop reading comments somewhere in there? Or did you just divorce however you're doing on a daily basis with whatever people are saying about you online?

• 1:55:14Speaker 02

  I think I had a lot of fear back then of people not liking me or people saying things that weren't true. And that fear has just gone away as I went to therapy, talked about it, worked with it through a therapist. And also, yeah, I just stopped going on. So more outrage driven places online where it's, you know, engagement, you know, you get your karma, you get your like, you get your whatever, based on, you know, outrage engagement. I just stopped looking at it and there's really no need to.

• 1:55:42Jack Selby?

  All right, well, I think that is it. Caleb, thank you for being so generous with your time. Thank you, team. Caleb's got his whole team. They're all helping out with this.

• 1:55:49Speaker 02

  Boys, I'm hungry.

• 1:55:50Graham Stephan?

  Well, yeah, we're gonna link to your channel down below in the description. Obviously, if you've never seen Caleb Hammer before, the channel is down below. Thank you so much for letting us use your studio, your equipment, letting us film here. The Diet Coke, for the, the coffee.

• 1:56:04Speaker 02

  Don't forget to thank me for the Neatos.

• 1:56:06Graham Stephan?

  These are so neat. I want you to sell these too. That's the other thing. These are so.

• 1:56:09Speaker 02

  Sponsor us, Neato.

• 1:56:10Jack Selby?

  Caleb, it's always a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you guys for watching. Till next time.

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