My Husband’s Affair Is Over. . . But He Still Talks to Her

On today’s episode, we hear about: A woman struggling with the aftermath of her husband’s affair A husband trying to save his marriage after a recent discovery A man unsure how to tell the kids about a new parenting arrangement Next Steps: 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. 🔴 Get 15% off with code DELONY at Bon Charge. 🌿 Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. 😇 Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial. 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 🥤 Get 20% off with code DELONY at Organifi. 💪 Get 25% off your order at Thorne. 🏋️ Go to Trainwell to get started! Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Dr. John Delony?

  So she's a little league coach?

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 0:07Dr. John Delony?

  And he's a coach?

• 0:08Speaker 01

  And he's the coach.

• 0:09Dr. John Delony?

  On the same team?

• 0:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 0:11Dr. John Delony?

  And they had an affair and you caught him?

• 0:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 0:13Dr. John Delony?

  And he's still coaching?

• 0:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 0:15Dr. John Delony?

  Your husband is absolute embarrassment to husbands everywhere. If this was a Hallmark movie, the only way to make this right is for you to call the other husband and be like, "Hey, what's up?"

• 0:28Dr. John Delony?

  What's up? What's up? What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show.

• 0:35Dr. John Delony?

  And for more than 20 years, I've been sitting with hurting people who, and that includes all of us, trying to do life, like just do the next right thing and the wheels fall off, whether it's in our marriages, our mental and emotional health, whether that is in our workplace, wherever you find challenge, I'll show up and sit with you. And man, it's one of my life's greatest honors to sit with hurting people trying to figure out, "Hey, what's the next right move? Hey, I think I see a light over that hill. What if we headed that way?" If you would like me to sit with you and just figure out what's the next right, right decision, give me a buzz, 1-844-693-3291, or you can go to johndeloney.com/ask, A-S-K.

• 1:18Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's go back to Texas and talk to Michelle in Corpus Christi. What's up, Michelle?

• 1:24Speaker 01

  Hi, Dr. John.

• 1:25Dr. John Delony?

  How are you?

• 1:27Speaker 01

  I'm doing good.

• 1:28Dr. John Delony?

  Awesome.

• 1:28Speaker 01

  Today's a good day.

• 1:30Dr. John Delony?

  Good, good, good. What's up? How can I help?

• 1:32Speaker 01

  Um, so my question is, um, how do I cope with, um, when my husband wants to remain on the same team as the woman that was, he was involved with an affair?

• 1:45Dr. John Delony?

  What?

• 1:46Speaker 01

  So, basically, yeah, I know.

• 1:49Dr. John Delony?

  What, what team?

• 1:50Speaker 01

  It's a, it's a little league baseball team.

• 1:53Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, God, help us. We're doomed as a, as a culture. We're doomed.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  I know. Unfortunately, they're both the coaches for this team. And, um, yeah, it's, it's-

• 2:05Dr. John Delony?

  Was he with another man?

• 2:07Speaker 01

  No, no, no. He, it was a woman.

• 2:08Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So she's a little league coach?

• 2:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:11Dr. John Delony?

  And he's a coach?

• 2:13Speaker 01

  And he's the coach.

• 2:14Dr. John Delony?

  On the same team?

• 2:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:16Dr. John Delony?

  And they had an affair and you caught him?

• 2:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:18Dr. John Delony?

  And he's still coaching?

• 2:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:21Dr. John Delony?

  Michelle.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:24Dr. John Delony?

  You're in Corpus Christi. They would never find his body if you took it far enough out in the bay.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  I've considered it.

• 2:30Dr. John Delony?

  I know you have. Don't do that.

• 2:32Speaker 01

  No, I wouldn't. Um, so as ridiculous as it sounds, um.

• 2:38Dr. John Delony?

  This is, this is ridiculous at a level that is even ridiculous for my show. And you can just look at the thumbnails on YouTube and this show gets ridiculous.

• 2:46Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:47Dr. John Delony?

  This is insanity.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  It is insanity and that's where I'm struggling with because, um, well, to add, you know, more sprinkles on top of this dessert, um, the husband is also aware of the affair and her husband. So he's agreed to stay on this team for the, this last season as well. So it's, it's so basically on top of that, we were actually had a friendship outside of this team. Like we had a three or four years, we've already been friends with this couple and a group of couples. And so we hung out with them outside the baseball field, you know, on, you know, personal lives and everything. And it was constant. So not only did we have that,

• 3:32Speaker 01

  we'd, we'd lost a friendship, but we also have this issue.

• 3:35Dr. John Delony?

  Hold on, hold on. It's not issue. You lost your marriage. Your husband's, your husband is absolute embarrassment to husbands everywhere.

• 3:44Dr. John Delony?

  An absolute embarrassment.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:48Dr. John Delony?

  He blew up his marriage and he is gonna rub it in publicly.

• 3:55Dr. John Delony?

  That's, that's astonishing to me. The fact that he has all of his teeth from the other husband. If this was a Hallmark movie, the only way to make this right is for you to call the other husband and be like, hey, what's up? Like what are y'all, like, I can't even wrap my head around this.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, John. It's been tough. Um, I can say that my husband did test up to everything.

• 4:19Dr. John Delony?

  No, it, he, it, he got caught.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, he got caught.

• 4:23Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, there's no, he gets no gold stars here. None. Zero gold stars. He's an embarrassment to men.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  Wow, yeah.

• 4:33Dr. John Delony?

  An absolute embarrassment to married men, to unmarried men. They're all men. The cowardice to take his, the cowardice and shame it takes.

• 4:44Dr. John Delony?

  Not to cheat on your wife, it happens. I've got, I, I will sit with you. Okay? But to rub your nose in it. You sit up in the stands while me and her share a dugout.

• 4:57Dr. John Delony?

  And we're gonna bring our kids around so that they get to see this too.

• 5:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:02Dr. John Delony?

  And not having the courage just to leave you. As crazy as that sounds coming from me.

• 5:10Dr. John Delony?

  It's just, it's just, it's embarrassing. And I'm sorry, you have to deal with it.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 5:16Dr. John Delony?

  Absolutely embarrassing. So look, can I say this? You're not crazy. Cause I guarantee you, we, with some, okay, we have a psychology for when somebody stabs us in the back.

• 5:29Dr. John Delony?

  Right? Like, somebody that, like the snake in the grass at work that takes your job, like, it hurts and we get mad and angry and all that, but we, we intellectually understand that. Most of us don't have a psychology for when somebody stabs us in the front, in the face. Someone that we love and care about and we trust. And then, when that happens, in the rarer moments, when they point at you and they say, "Oh yeah, any response to you, oh, you're screaming in pain, you should shh, be quiet. Be quiet." Then you start to think you're crazy.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:07Dr. John Delony?

  You're not crazy. This is insane.

• 6:11Dr. John Delony?

  It's madness.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:15Dr. John Delony?

  Or let me say it this way, you know what? It's not madness, it's not insanity at all. It's, it's, it's just clear data that he does not want this marriage.

• 6:28Dr. John Delony?

  He does not, period, want, period, to be married to you, period. And that was a lot of periods, and I was trying to be emphatic.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:38Dr. John Delony?

  Because nobody who hurts somebody like he hurt you

• 6:44Dr. John Delony?

  decides, "I'm gonna go ahead and rub her face in the concrete." And who cares if you have a nine-year-old who's like, "I don't wanna switch teams." It doesn't matter, you're nine. There's a grenade in the middle of your home. I don't care less what you want, you're nine.

• 7:01Dr. John Delony?

  We're playing rec ball. We're not playing baseball this year. How about that? We're gonna go fishing, cuz I'm gonna rebuild my marriage from the inside out cuz I just messed it up.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:12Dr. John Delony?

  I- I- I'm rarely speechless and you got me on this one, Michelle.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it's-

• 7:17Dr. John Delony?

  Even though I'm speaking a lot.

• 7:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I- I mean, there's- I don't know what to say because, I mean, he's trying- we're trying out for another team, so-

• 7:28Dr. John Delony?

  Quit baseball. Stop!

• 7:32Speaker 01

  I did- I did suggest that.

• 7:34Dr. John Delony?

  No suggest. You have a voice in this, Michelle.

• 7:39Dr. John Delony?

  You've got a voice. You're getting dragged behind a car through your community and you're like, "Hey, what if we went slower?" Like- like, stop!

• 7:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true. I guess we put it like that.

• 7:53Dr. John Delony?

  I want you to take the driver's seat back in your own life.

• 7:59Dr. John Delony?

  We're trying out for other teams. Quit baseball! You chi- it's God almighty. What is wrong with people?

• 8:10Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, I'm talking way too much even though I'm speechless, which I know sounds weird, but God help me.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  That's- that's kind of what I've shared with him too. I've told him, "Okay, look, get it from my perspective."

• 8:19Dr. John Delony?

  Stop sharing. Stop sharing. You gotta just tell him.

• 8:23Dr. John Delony?

  Like, I- listen, okay, how can I help? I'm just- I'm just kinda getting out of my seat.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  I mean, it's- that's basically it. Like, we wanna work on our marriage, but-

• 8:33Dr. John Delony?

  He absolutely does not. He absolutely, one thousand percent, does not care about your marriage, period. End of story. End of story.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  I hear.

• 8:41Dr. John Delony?

  Behavior is a language. He wants to spend hours and hours and hours in a confined space on a joint mission and purpose with the woman he cheated on you with, period.

• 8:53Dr. John Delony?

  End of story.

• 8:56Dr. John Delony?

  That's it.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  Okay, I guess that's me having to take-

• 9:02Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, you gotta metabolize that kind of- that kind of pain.

• 9:11Dr. John Delony?

  I've had people who cheat at work and who quit their jobs to save their marriage. And that's noble. I've had people get rid of their computers because they're struggling with pornography and their spouse says enough is enough. Like, there's people who move, they go to the ends of the earth to save their marriage. Your husband is not be interested in being married to you as, only so far as, I mean, you kind of will take anything.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:43Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 9:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess, I guess I've been the one that's kind of been holding on for our kids.

• 9:51Dr. John Delony?

  For everything? Do you have a daughter?

• 9:57Speaker 01

  Yes, I do.

• 9:59Dr. John Delony?

  Imagine she's 22 and you're, she's telling you this story. What would you tell her to do?

• 10:05Speaker 01

  Run.

• 10:13Dr. John Delony?

  I feel like I'm madder on your behalf than you are.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  I guess, I, I don't know why it's, it's just so hard for me to stand up for myself, I guess, in this sense.

• 10:28Dr. John Delony?

  I'm not gonna, I'm not, Michelle, I'm not gonna beat you up. Let's don't do that.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:34Dr. John Delony?

  It just is, I hate it for you. I hate you're being treated like this. Nobody, nobody, nobody deserves to be hurt like this. Nobody. I'm so sorry.

• 10:48Speaker 01

  No, yeah. Me too.

• 10:51Dr. John Delony?

  And, like, make no mistake, like, um... I guess the picture in my head is, um, there's a house fire, and the house burned to the ground, and you were checking out the ashes of the house, and a beam that had kind of burned through started to fall, and you were holding it up. Your arms are so tired, you're covered in soot and ash, and you're exhausted, but you don't want to drop the beam because you don't want to acknowledge that the house fell down.

• 11:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's... If that's how... that's exactly... that feels like...

• 11:42Dr. John Delony?

  So regardless of all the nonsense advice you're gonna get, nobody can give you your next decision, your next choice.

• 11:53Dr. John Delony?

  If somebody cheats in a relationship and the other person chooses to stay and they choose to rebuild their marriage and rebuild trust, I applaud that. I think that's amazing. I'll be in their corner all day long. And if somebody cheats in a relationship and they say, "I've got... I can't, I can't come back",

• 12:10Dr. John Delony?

  I'll sit with you too. I'll be in your corner all day long too.

• 12:14Dr. John Delony?

  The one thing I can't stomach is the person who cheats, blows up everything and then looks over and says, "Yeah, I'm gonna keep doing this."

• 12:24Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, help me out. What's, what's his justification?

• 12:29Speaker 01

  I mean, he's... he did say it was because, you know, he felt like our marriage was already kind of crumbling in a sense.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  I had started therapy and he refused to do any therapy. Um, so then when they started talk... It never was like that, but it started becoming more emotional affair. And then because he would vent to her and they would talk about baseball and, you know, and talk... then they started... she started having problems in her marriage. And so then they started talking about each other's marriages and that's how that started.

• 13:04Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so let me, let me pause there. That's not an uncommon scenario.

• 13:10Dr. John Delony?

  And this is gonna sound strange to say, like, that doesn't freak me out.

• 13:17Dr. John Delony?

  Like, I... that part isn't, um...

• 13:22Dr. John Delony?

  I'm trying to think of the right words. It's not rare.

• 13:26Dr. John Delony?

  But what on earth, post that moment, the, "Oh, my gosh, I just changed everything." "I just slept with one of my close friend's wives. I just slept with one of my wife's close friends." "Someone I travel with, that we coach games." Like, I just... whoa.

• 13:46Dr. John Delony?

  What in the world could possibly be the justification for being like, alright, so here's the deal, we're gonna continue coaching together?

• 13:55Speaker 01

  Well, for him, it's because he doesn't want people to find out what happened. And so he doesn't want to leave the team abruptly, and then people start questioning why he left. And I said, who cares? Since when do you care what people say or think about you? Now all of a sudden, who cares? And that's why we're trying to, we were trying to quietly exit, because nobody knows. I mean, between the four of us, minus like a cousin of mine, nobody else knows in our family and our friend circle.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  So that's why he was trying to do a clean break. But now that the season's about to start, he's like, well, I don't know if I want to leave just yet. We agreed, we're just gonna do this last season and then we're done. But I'm finding it hard to do that, even though they've cut off communication, like her phone number's blocked, like they don't interact at all.

• 14:45Dr. John Delony?

  I guarantee you they figured out a way around that.

• 14:50Dr. John Delony?

  Guaranteed.

• 14:56Dr. John Delony?

  My truck is not nice, but I would bet the whole thing they figured it out.

• 15:11Dr. John Delony?

  I'm literally heartbroken for you, with you.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, me too.

• 15:22Dr. John Delony?

  If he cares more about his precious little imaginary reputation among the little league community than he does about his marriage, that's about all you need to know.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true.

• 15:42Dr. John Delony?

  Or let me see it like this, you're worth more than that.

• 15:50Dr. John Delony?

  I'm just, I'm just embarrassed, man.

• 15:58Dr. John Delony?

  I would get on the phone with somebody who's a trusted professional ASAP.

• 16:04Dr. John Delony?

  And I think for you, going back to the house on fire analogy, you need to have somebody that can help you like clear the smoke and the ash so you can figure out what you want to do next.

• 16:15Dr. John Delony?

  And maybe sit with a counselor in your local area that can walk through like, okay, this is happening and this is happening and this is happening. So they can be as hopefully as direct as I'm being.

• 16:29Dr. John Delony?

  I just, I can't, I can't wrap my head around it.

• 16:35Dr. John Delony?

  This is just shameful on so many different levels. It's embarrassing. I just keep saying embarrassing. I'm just embarrassed.

• 16:46Dr. John Delony?

  Gosh, who's on those calls, Michelle, there's not a happy ending to this one. I'm just heartbroken. Maybe he comes home today and he's like, dude, I'm out of my mind. I've been crazy. I quit the team. We're not playing baseball. I'm out. I'm not going to answer the five texts I get from parents because I don't care. And I'm saving my marriage.

• 17:08Dr. John Delony?

  Ends of the earth, here we go. Maybe, maybe. But I could grieve. I'm sorry, my sister, I'm sorry.

• 17:18Dr. John Delony?

  Thank you for the call. Call anytime. If you get up to some big decision points, holler at me. Be happy to sit with you. We'll be right back.

• 17:29Dr. John Delony?

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• 18:12Dr. John Delony?

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• 18:57Dr. John Delony?

  And being well is hard work, but you're worth the work. And therapy can help. I see a therapist and many of you should see one too. But let's be real, taking that first step to see a therapist can feel overwhelming and exposing. Maybe it's time, maybe you have some preconceived notions about whether it will even work or not, or maybe it's cost, or maybe you're just not sure where to start. I know, because I've been there. We spend money on gym memberships, organic groceries, some of you are essential oil people, some of you use special shampoos and creams and tracker watches, but when it comes to our mental and emotional health, we hesitate. Listen, your mental and emotional health are just as important as your physical health. And the good news, therapy is now more important.

• 19:38Dr. John Delony?

  More accessible than ever and BetterHelp makes therapy more affordable and convenient. Since it's online, you can talk with your therapist when it works for your schedule. No waiting rooms, no long commutes and no six-month waiting lists. Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist and if it's not the right fit, you can switch at any time for no extra cost. Your well-being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com/daloni to get started. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, dot com slash daloni. Let's go out to Memphis, Tennessee, right down the road from where I am and talk to Lawrence. What up Lawrence?

• 20:16Speaker 02

  Hey Dr. John, glad to be on, a little nervous but uh...

• 20:21Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, you're good brother. Thanks for calling in, man.

• 20:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Um, so yes, glad to be on, nervous to be on. This is a little different for me.

• 20:32Dr. John Delony?

  There you go. I appreciate you having the courage to reach out, man.

• 20:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. So...

• 20:37Dr. John Delony?

  It's just you and me and a couple of million people. It's all good.

• 20:40Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, nobody listens, right?

• 20:44Dr. John Delony?

  Trust me, no, nobody does listen.

• 20:46Speaker 02

  So yeah, so how do we jump into this?

• 20:50Dr. John Delony?

  Cannonball. Cannonball's the best way.

• 20:54Speaker 02

  Cannonball, yeah. So, um, so a whole whopping seven months ago, married this amazing, beautiful woman. We started dating approximately three years ago and moved really fast. I mean, she was the unicorn that every guy dreams of running into. She started off kind of as a client of mine through a hobby job that I was doing. And then we had both recently, you know, ended previous relationships and kind of found confinence in each other and quickly snowballed into a relationship and, you know,

• 21:37Speaker 02

  same hobbies, same interests, same, you know, everything. And we got married in May. I had brought a lot of baggage into the relationship financially and entered this marriage not really standing on my two feet, just trying to play catch-up with life and bad decisions in the past.

• 22:00Speaker 02

  And everything was great up until planning the marriage. Um, our relationship had kind of gotten a little rocky there for a little bit. And I kind of alluded it to, you know, just the stress of, of planning a, planning a wedding and, and planning a marriage. Um, and, you know, post, post wedding, you know, we had that little honeymoon phase and things just never, never really ironed themselves out. Um, and so we started going to couples counseling, um, at the beginning of June. And first, first session was great.

• 22:42Speaker 02

  You know, I, I made an add in it, you know, I'm all in, um, just personal, personal values, um, upbringing, you know, be, be all in to work on your marriage, um, and lean into it. And so I was all in. Our therapist gave us homework. We came back the following week and she dropped a bombshell, um, that she had gone back through a money tracking app that we had started doing together, um, to kind of manage finances, kind of build a budget out, um, and she had found where I had basically paid for porn.

• 23:27Speaker 02

  Um, it was something that I didn't deny it when she brought it up. Um, I admitted to it. Um, it was something that I had, I had struggled previously with, um, years and years and years ago. Um, wouldn't necessarily say addicted to it, but, but struggled with it. Um, I'd stopped, um, and then kind of relapsed back into it, um, in the last year, year and a half, um, and.

• 23:57Speaker 02

  About August, um, I've kinda had that realization of, you know, I'm a, I'm a married guy. I've got a wife. What am I, what am I doing? And, and, and stopped cold turkey. Um, but she went through that money app and did some digging and investigating on her own and found it. Um, I had, I tried to cover it up. Um, it was an app where you could change the name of the charges and things like that. Um, I had seen it on there. I tried to cover it up out of shame and guilt. Never admitted it to her out of shame and guilt. Um, I had

• 24:37Speaker 02

  told her that I had, that, that I had previously had a problem with porn. Um, and admitted that to her later in our relationship out of a fear of being vulnerable to her and being judged for it. Um, and I guess when she did her whole investigating and found it, it blew up to, I can't be trusted. Um, she called me a cheater a couple of times. Um, which hurt, which hurt the most because I would never, while I understand that porn, you know, some people can look at it as cheating. I would never act on that. Um, I, I, I would

• 25:20Speaker 02

  never physically step out of my marriage. Um.

• 25:24Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, but she doesn't know that.

• 25:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, she doesn't know that. Um, but the, the, the, the trust thing is the hardest part. Um, that she feel like she can't, she can't trust me. And she, she, she basically said that she wanted, that, that she needed some time to think and our therapist suggested the one week, no contact. That was the hardest, longest week of my life, um, I thought at the time. And we reconvened and she walked into the therapy session late. I know that she didn't have her wedding band on. Um, when I saw her walk in the door, my heart immediately sank because that was the first thing that I noticed that she wasn't wearing her wedding band. And she sat down and said that she wanted a divorce.

• 26:08Speaker 02

  And my life has been basically crumbled since then. Um, so we're a month post that last therapy session. Um.

• 26:21Speaker 02

  Our therapist suggested we each individually see therapist. Um, again, I, I dove all in. I've been meeting with my therapist weekly, um, here more recently bi-weekly. Um, and I'm all, I'm all in, you know, trying to do better for myself. Um, fix my problems, my vulnerability, my honesty problems, um, vagueness problems. Um, and trying to figure out how I can, you know, earn my wife. I still have heard of my wife, although she's, she's filed for divorce.

• 27:00Dr. John Delony?

  Um. So she has filed paperwork?

• 27:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, she, she's filed paperwork. She's gotten her lawyer. Um, I got my lawyer just to, you know, protect myself. Um, and we're kind of letting the lawyers, you know, do, do their thing, but I'm still.

• 27:17Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, but so you got, you have to exhale that this is over.

• 27:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:21Dr. John Delony?

  And you haven't yet, have you?

• 27:23Speaker 02

  No, I'm still trying to, I'm still trying to hold on, still trying to fight. Cause I do, I do love her with everything that I've got. And, and willing to do anything to show her that I'm, I'm all in.

• 27:40Dr. John Delony?

  I know, but you got to hear her say, she doesn't care.

• 27:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:45Dr. John Delony?

  I know it's hard to hear.

• 27:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. It is.

• 27:52Dr. John Delony?

  So how can I help you, man? I hate that you're going through all this.

• 27:55Speaker 02

  I don't know. I, I, I understand, you know, I've, I've got to go through the self-healing process first. Um, I'm still going.

• 28:05Dr. John Delony?

  Well, you, you do, but.

• 28:13Speaker 02

  Really just move, move.

• 28:16Speaker 02

  I'm in a hole and I'm just trying to figure out, you know, how that light at the end of this, at the end of the hole.

• 28:21Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, stop digging.

• 28:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:23Dr. John Delony?

  Stop digging.

• 28:24Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 28:25Dr. John Delony?

  Here's why. I wrote this down, when you first started talking, you came into this marriage thinking you were less than her.

• 28:36Dr. John Delony?

  Sexually, financially,

• 28:40Dr. John Delony?

  probably attractiveness. Like you came in thinking, oh, my gosh.

• 28:45Dr. John Delony?

  Look at the fish I got on this line.

• 28:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:49Dr. John Delony?

  And so everything, all of your actions are from a position of, I love how you just ended it. I'm in a hole.

• 28:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:58Dr. John Delony?

  And until you stop working, walking around, giving your credit card to a, to a porn company is in the whole behavior.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:10Dr. John Delony?

  That is less than. That is, I am desperately trying to feel alive in my own skin.

• 29:18Dr. John Delony?

  So much so that I'll take one of the most, um, uh, untrustworthy groups of people on the planet and give them my account number.

• 29:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:33Dr. John Delony?

  You said something that I want to make sure I double click on.

• 29:38Dr. John Delony?

  That you, you kind of held some stuff back from her because you were worried about her judging you.

• 29:44Dr. John Delony?

  But I got a sense that you kind of feel right, righteous about that. Like, yeah, see, when you found out, now you're judging me.

• 29:52Speaker 02

  Not, not really. And I dove, I dove into that as, I've always had issues with, with just being vulnerable.

• 30:00Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 30:01Speaker 02

  Um, to this previous, previous life. I, I lost my dad when I was in fifth grade and, you know, I kind of was forced to grow up and had to put on this persona of being ten foot tall and bulletproof for family and stuff like that. And I've always had a, a problem of letting myself be vulnerable to other people. Um, and I didn't realize how much that affected me until I dove in with my, my personal therapist.

• 30:29Dr. John Delony?

  So, so what?

• 30:32Speaker 02

  So it, it, it was a scared, it, I was, I was scared of being, and I, I don't blame her for the way that she acted.

• 30:39Dr. John Delony?

  Well, but hold on, hold on. The, it's very, very rare.

• 30:45Dr. John Delony?

  Um,

• 30:47Dr. John Delony?

  I, I, I'm not sitting in day in and day out in marriage therapy offices. Okay. So in, in law, law offices. But in my world, it is very, very rare.

• 31:00Dr. John Delony?

  For somebody to find an old incidence of paying for pornography, search history, found at all expense. What was this? Because that story's not super ringing true with me. Either that, or she wanted out of this thing so bad and she found a path.

• 31:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that's what I'm thinking, that this was kind of a death of a thousand cuts.

• 31:22Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, but you were only together seven months. There's not even time to have a thousand cuts unless you're screaming at her and hitting her and swearing and just being an all-around scumbag, right?

• 31:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, and it was actually kind of the opposite direction.

• 31:35Dr. John Delony?

  So what did she find?

• 31:37Speaker 02

  That's what she told me, you know, and there was really nothing else. I mean, I had tried to start, I'd tried to start a business right there when we got married, which took a lot of my time, which probably wasn't the smartest move on my part.

• 31:57Dr. John Delony?

  That's all fine and good. There's something else here, brother.

• 32:01Speaker 02

  And I don't know.

• 32:04Dr. John Delony?

  Was it pornography, or was it like webcam girl? Was it interactive?

• 32:10Speaker 02

  No, it wasn't interactive. It was OnlyFans, but I was strictly paying for videos. There was no interaction there or anything like that. I was just paying for videos and subscriptions. And, you know, she basically said that, you know, I lied about it. I relapsed, I'm cheating on her.

• 32:38Dr. John Delony?

  Well, and you say you don't have an addiction problem, but you continue to use addiction language.

• 32:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I was never clinically diagnosed addicted, but I guess I am.

• 32:54Dr. John Delony?

  I don't think you are, just from what you're talking about, but I don't work with you day in and day out, so I don't know, but...

• 33:04Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I really don't know how I can help other than the faster you exhale into, I mean, she's, it's one thing if she says, "I want a divorce," takes her ring off, and then doesn't do anything for a month or two. Yeah. Then, in my world, that's the, so you're telling me there's a chance? Yeah. This is, this is filing, here's the paperwork, the lawyers have a date, and we're moving down the road.

• 33:34Dr. John Delony?

  That's when, here's the deal, man, you can't go to all this therapy and do all this stuff to try to win her back. You gotta go to the therapy and stuff because there's something not right. And it might be that she's not right.

• 33:49Dr. John Delony?

  And I might say, "She can do whatever she wants, she can divorce you for whatever reason, and she feels this is infidelity, it's infidelity, I'm out." Okay, but, um, either this is just...

• 34:05Dr. John Delony?

  I don't know. I'd have to, I'd have to talk to both of you longer, I think, to get a better beat on this thing, but what I can tell you is, the faster you exhale and grieve this thing, it's heartbreaking.

• 34:18Dr. John Delony?

  You did some stuff, you weren't honest about it, it doesn't matter what anybody else's opinion on it is, she says, "That's a violation, that's infidelity, I'm out. I can't trust you sexually, I can't trust you financially, you hide things, you go change labels, we went to marriage counseling in June, and it's August when I found this out, and so we've been through two or three months of counseling and you didn't tell me, I'm out, I'm out."

• 34:43Dr. John Delony?

  People can judge her all day long, but she's got every right to walk. It's you that's gotta exhale and go, "Okay, this is happening, what's gonna be different next time?" And by the way, she's not a unicorn, dude. When you put that kind of pressure on somebody, that somehow you've found this mystical being that people tell you doesn't exist, you find somebody and you choose to love them, and you keep showing up, and you keep showing up, and you keep showing up.

• 35:09Dr. John Delony?

  So yeah, the best thing to tell you, man, is keep seeing a counselor, but also, put yourself in a position where you can begin to act differently in a way that you learn to trust you.

• 35:20Dr. John Delony?

  Because right now, you're entering into all these relationships, the counselor, the marriage, the, everything, from in a hole.

• 35:30Dr. John Delony?

  Stop digging and just stand up. The hole's not as deep as you think it is. Stand up. And this one may have cost you everything. And have to dig down on the chin. That's another big loss for you. Pressure down in your marriage is tough, tough, tough, tough, tough, tough.

• 35:48Dr. John Delony?

  There is healing on the other side, man, but you gotta own the reality of where you find yourself. Thanks for the call, man. Best of luck to you. Holler back if I can help in any way, man. If you've got some directed questions I can help with, I'd be happy to walk with you. We'll be right back. All right, good folks. There's a lot of talk these days about the ingredients in what we eat and what we drink. The food dyes and the colors and the extra nasty chemicals, the pesticides. Listen, I'm not a food scientist, but I know none of this stuff sounds good. And this is one of the big reasons why I love Organifi. I trust their ingredients for me and for my kids. I don't have to worry about anything. Organifi products are certified organic, non-GMO, gluten-free, pesticide-free, and herbicide-free.

• 36:30Dr. John Delony?

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• 37:10Dr. John Delony?

  Go to O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I, organifi.com/deloney today and use code DELONY for 20% off everything else on their site.

• 37:21Dr. John Delony?

  All right, we're back. Let's go out to Reno, Nevada and talk to Jason. Redeem the show, Jason. What's up?

• 37:27Speaker 02

  Good morning, sir. How are you today?

• 37:29Dr. John Delony?

  I'm all right, brother. What's going on in your world?

• 37:30Speaker 02

  Uh, just a quick correction. It's Nevada, not Nevada. Uh, the true Nevadans will, uh, will catch you on that one, but...

• 37:37Dr. John Delony?

  You.

• 37:38Speaker 02

  I'm just saying.

• 37:39Dr. John Delony?

  Desert dweller.

• 37:41Speaker 02

  Desert rat, for sure, for sure.

• 37:43Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, say it one more time. It's Nevada?

• 37:45Speaker 02

  It's Nevada.

• 37:47Dr. John Delony?

  Nevada.

• 37:48Speaker 02

  It's Nevada. We from Nevada, man.

• 37:50Dr. John Delony?

  We from Nevada.

• 37:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:52Dr. John Delony?

  All right.

• 37:53Speaker 02

  Anyway.

• 37:54Dr. John Delony?

  Sounds like you're falling and just hit the ground, like, Nevada.

• 37:56Speaker 02

  Uh, and we don't, uh, count Vegas. Vegas is California, so whatever.

• 38:02Dr. John Delony?

  We here in, uh, Texas and Tennessee, we call it Nevada, cause we're, uh, we're a little bit perfect with our speech.

• 38:11Speaker 02

  I'm just letting you know, if, if they're from Nevada, they're gonna roll their eyes at you.

• 38:15Dr. John Delony?

  Trust me, bro, I've said Louisville. Almost got shot for that one. Uh, what was the one in, uh, in Pittsburgh that I said, Kelly?

• 38:21Speaker 03

  Uh, Lancaster.

• 38:23Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I said Lancaster.

• 38:25Speaker 03

  Pennsylvania.

• 38:26Dr. John Delony?

  It's Lancaster. You would've thought, uh, anyway. Okay, so...

• 38:31Speaker 02

  I didn't know that one. Anyway.

• 38:32Dr. John Delony?

  Nevada.

• 38:33Speaker 02

  Sorry.

• 38:34Dr. John Delony?

  Jason from Nevada. What's up, man?

• 38:37Speaker 02

  Hey, my world kinda blew up and the ride or die said she didn't wanna be married anymore.

• 38:44Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, man.

• 38:45Speaker 02

  I gave her, I did, yeah, it was rough. I did the turn the lights off, or turn the lights on, slow down the music conversation at breakfast.

• 38:51Dr. John Delony?

  Yep.

• 38:52Speaker 02

  And I thought it was pretty good. And she said, nope. And I said, okay. So then I followed up a couple of weeks later, said, all right, well then I wrote an email and said, well, I think these are the options. Uh, blow it up the house, you sell it, we don't have a place to live. Um, you try and buy me out, I try and buy you out, you know, get the lawyers involved, a lot of money, trying to be respectful and amicable. We got two sons. Um...

• 39:17Speaker 02

  And she's like, well, what about nesting?

• 39:19Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, God. Oh, God.

• 39:22Speaker 02

  So what it turned and it turned into, I was like, all right, I can go explore that option. I we got a I got a family member down the road a little bit and I said, I'll go see if, you know, their extra room is uh available and they would they said, well, before I could even have that conversation, it was breakfast, made some phone calls, this and that. Um, then she's like, wait, no, let's not do that. We left breakfast saying, let's try nesting. That was kind of the, you know, and then on my way over to like, well, no, what about just co-parenting? Under the same house, knowing what we know, not telling anybody yet. I'm like, wait, what?

• 39:57Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no. Nesting is a terrible idea.

• 40:01Speaker 02

  That's kind of what I was thinking. So on the follow up that a week later, she's like, can you come to my therapist appointment? And I was like, sure, yeah. You got something to say? Well, I just need a safe space to talk about this. All right, what you got? Um, well, what about separation and you just leave for a little while while I get my stuff lined out? Um, in my head,

• 40:23Speaker 02

  you're the one wanting a divorce. I said,

• 40:25Dr. John Delony?

  That's right.

• 40:26Speaker 02

  I want to ride or die. I want to go. I'm fix this. I don't think there's grounds like there wasn't any trade, you know, infidelity, like I'm not some, you know, drunk, you know, I'm not that I'm not a bad guy, I don't think. And I think when I hear you, I've been minging your show for about six months. And I can see the failure factory. I can see the not handling your own trauma. I can like, I've gone through my own journey. We had drama with my youngest, this and that. And I don't think she processed it and it's turning into, I don't want to be married and if I do something else and I don't know what to do because the next conversation with the therapist last night was, um, well, what if you leave the house and I have to hear? I'm like, wait, what?

• 41:04Dr. John Delony?

  No. Yeah, no. If she wants to leave you, she can leave you. She's an adult and you can't stop her.

• 41:12Dr. John Delony?

  But coming up with these bull crap hippie dippy over intellectualized ways to avoid reality.

• 41:22Speaker 02

  Reality, exactly.

• 41:24Dr. John Delony?

  People listening nesting is we're gonna keep the kids at the house because the supposedly it's better for the kids for mom and dad to get divorced, but the kids to stay in the house and mom lives there a couple of days a week and dad lives there a few days a week instead of them going back and forth.

• 41:41Dr. John Delony?

  The part that the intellectual goofballs leave out is if we had that ability to coordinate, we'd be able to fix our marriage. If we had that kind of resources, we could, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's just, it's lunacy. And the fact that kids are, are air filters for a home, they absorb everything.

• 42:03Dr. John Delony?

  And so when you have, it's just madness. It's madness, dude.

• 42:10Dr. John Delony?

  Anyway, I could go on, I don't want to derail the conversation. It sounds like, yeah, I, I trust you, man. You sound like a pretty amazing guy. It sounds like your wife is spinning out and is just trying to whack a mole with feelings and hurt and all that stuff.

• 42:24Dr. John Delony?

  And you're bearing the brunt of it, but at the end of the day, she's choosing to dissolve your marriage and leave. Then if she's making that choice, that choice comes with a whole bunch of consequences. And choosing to work on your marriage and to recommit and build something new, that's a choice too. Both of those are hard. She just has to choose her heart.

• 42:42Speaker 02

  So then, okay, I, I told that, she's like, I don't want to choose that hard. Okay, fair. So then the next conversation stepped up to like, all right, well then what do you tell the boys? What I want to tell the boys is like, I wanted to be married, mom didn't.

• 42:54Dr. John Delony?

  Yes.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  And I don't, that.

• 42:56Dr. John Delony?

  How old are they?

• 42:57Speaker 02

  We're in the, they're about to be 13, couple of months and about to be 10.

• 43:02Dr. John Delony?

  Yes, that is a fair statement.

• 43:04Speaker 02

  Right. And the therapist, which I think is a loon, she's like, well, yeah, let's not, um, you know, something where, you know, a villain, villainate, vilifies one person or the other.

• 43:15Dr. John Delony?

  But one person is the villain here, right?

• 43:18Speaker 02

  Well, no, she said something like that. I'm kind of like, I told her I want to be married and she doesn't want, like, a nine year, that's okay for a nine year old? I mean, to hear that?

• 43:27Dr. John Delony?

  It's, mommy is struggling, like with a 13 year old, yeah, you gotta be honest, because here's the deal, you can't risk them thinking as their world is exploding, oh, my dad's a liar too.

• 43:38Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 43:40Dr. John Delony?

  That is hyper untethering.

• 43:43Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 43:44Dr. John Delony?

  There is something about you guys sitting there saying, "To the ends of the earth, we love you."

• 43:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:52Dr. John Delony?

  "We will always be there for you. We will always figure out a way to come through for you." All that kind of stuff that parents need to say together. To a 13-year-old, whose whole world is exploding. But also, I think it's fair to say, "Mom is going through a lot right now, and she is choosing to not be married anymore."

• 44:15Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 44:16Dr. John Delony?

  "We both still love you. She loves you forever." And yes, a 13-year-old's gonna go, "Hmm, I wonder if one day she chooses to not want to be my mom." That is a fair question.

• 44:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 44:28Dr. John Delony?

  And that's, needs to be addressed on the table, and you can't avoid this.

• 44:34Dr. John Delony?

  With a nine-year-old, it does need to be a little more delicate.

• 44:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's our special one, and he understands, and he's smart. He has some medical stuff. And again, there's my, like, after listening to you, I can be like, "Hey, you didn't resolve this grief. Like, you didn't." Like, and I had people that had my back and mowed my lawn, and like, I cried with a lot of guys.

• 44:55Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 44:55Speaker 02

  And she didn't have that, and she didn't look for it from me either.

• 45:00Dr. John Delony?

  And my guess is it's welled up inside of her soul, that, plus everything else, plus probably some resentment that you had all the support and she didn't, and yada, yada. At the end of the day, she doesn't, she doesn't feel safe in her own skin. She doesn't like the life she's co-created.

• 45:16Speaker 02

  Right, and I can't do nothing about that, except for make money and try and be around, right?

• 45:20Dr. John Delony?

  Well, I mean, the only thing you could do is what you've done, which is say, "Hey, we have, we have co-created this life. I want to co-create a new one with you." And she said no.

• 45:31Dr. John Delony?

  And

• 45:32Speaker 02

  So then

• 45:34Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, there's not a way to soft land this.

• 45:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what I'm trying to tell her.

• 45:41Dr. John Delony?

  And I think, I think you're on to something, and this isn't every relationship, but I think in your marriage in particular, I think you love her enough and see enough, I've known her well enough to know this is gonna be yet another Xanax.

• 45:58Speaker 02

  Oh, and I want to clarify also, like, I've had my Xanax too, don't get me wrong.

• 46:02Dr. John Delony?

  No, we all do, we all do, we all do.

• 46:03Speaker 02

  Like, I did it, like, I messed up, and, you know, I look porn, yeah, but I get it.

• 46:08Dr. John Delony?

  We all, we all have, bro, we all do, we all do. I'm saying, you know this is her kicking the can down the road even further.

• 46:14Speaker 02

  That's what I feel like, yeah.

• 46:15Dr. John Delony?

  She'll have a reckoning at some point, with the mirror.

• 46:19Speaker 02

  So my dilemma now is like, alright, well, now she wants to, nesting was the first, now the second one's like, how about you move out of the house, just so I can buy some time, so that I can set myself up, and, you know, my teaching credential needs to come through, and this and that, blah, blah, blah.

• 46:33Dr. John Delony?

  Big, big boy and big girl decisions come with big boy and big girl choices and consequences, period.

• 46:40Speaker 02

  How do I say that lovingly?

• 46:43Dr. John Delony?

  I think is loving, nothing you say is gonna be received lovingly, because lovingly for her is, I want the world to bend to how I feel in this particular moment.

• 46:55Dr. John Delony?

  And she found some therapist that would bend that way, she found some internet article that said, well, here's an alternative to reality, we'll call it nesting, where we're gonna live under the illusion that the kids' lives aren't disrupted, or they're minimally disrupted, when it's just, you know what I mean?

• 47:15Speaker 02

  So, to me, I want to turn it into a, like, I make all the money, not all the money, she makes, she has two part-time jobs, and she's like, well, and a few years ago, she put her, started putting her, she just got into part-time jobs, she had a teaching career for a little bit, and started putting, stashing all that money in an account, I couldn't, okay, fine, whatever, that's her savings, I make enough money to make the house go, right? So, her, well, if you move out, I'll start putting my part-time paychecks in there, so we can then run the house, I'm like, it costs $4,000 a month, run the house, like, you're $80, $100, whatever it is, and you want me to move out?

• 47:48Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 47:48Speaker 02

  That doesn't sound like, I deserve that one, but I don't know how to not, you know, like, turn this into a bickering, fighting.

• 47:57Speaker 02

  Blow up grenade and still hold integrity and do the right thing.

• 48:01Dr. John Delony?

  It already is. It already is. And so, let me just say this. In my house, I would, heartbreakingly and with all the grief in the world, if my wife was having the same conversation, I would say, "Hey, I love you, and if you need to go, I won't stand at the door. Like you're an adult. I'll do anything and everything that I can to help you create a world where you feel safe enough to stay. But if you want to go, you can go. I'm not going to leave. This is my house, and these are the kids. And if you want to take the

• 48:39Dr. John Delony?

  kids from their home, you can take me to court. But you can't pretend that you're, you can't, at the same time, you're blowing up this family. You can't also pretend that everything is mostly going to stay the same." And I would say that in an honorable way, in retaining her dignity. She's clearly going through hell. But it's a disassociative, like she does not have her feet on the ground. And I'm heartbroken that she got in with a therapist that didn't firmly plant her feet on the ground. And say, "I'll sit with you and walk with you, and I'll hold up a

• 49:20Dr. John Delony?

  mirror as we go through this separation, this divorce. But I'm going to be honest, we've got to make a budget. And we're going to have to talk about what no-fault looks like in Nevada. And we've got to go through these things and what sharing custody is, because the world you're envisioning is not a real world." And her therapist failed her, and I'm sorry.

• 49:48Speaker 02

  I'm just looking for anything else I can do that could be a right move.

• 49:56Dr. John Delony?

  I think you're a pretty good man.

• 50:05Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 50:08Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, it sounds like you've gone to hell and back.

• 50:12Dr. John Delony?

  Or maybe you're not back yet.

• 50:17Dr. John Delony?

  And maybe-

• 50:18Speaker 02

  I'm back. I'm getting there.

• 50:19Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I know. Well, here's the thing. The challenge is when you get back, your skin's a little bit thicker. And it's easy to want to just mount up and go to war. And I think for you, the challenge is going to be exhaling.

• 50:34Dr. John Delony?

  Because pretty soon, she's going to go from this woman I'm desperately trying to stay married to, to a woman who's blowing up my kids' lives.

• 50:42Speaker 02

  War would feel better. You're right.

• 50:46Dr. John Delony?

  It's harder to stay in it.

• 50:51Dr. John Delony?

  And it's harder to make that shift, like, I'm going to model for my two boys.

• 50:56Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 50:58Dr. John Delony?

  What dignity and respect looks like when they're getting punched in the face. So hard.

• 51:06Dr. John Delony?

  But this is my home. This is their home. And we're going to stay here. If you want to go, I'm not going to slash your tires. Hey, brother, I'm heartbroken for you. Hey, how about this? See if your wife will call in.

• 51:19Speaker 02

  Okay. I sent her one just to see if she would do it. Like, hey, check this out. And I told her, like, I even alluded to your advice. I said, hey, I'm talking to this guru. She's like, who's your new guru? I'm like, I got a guru.

• 51:33Speaker 02

  Hey, thank you for your time. I really appreciate what you do. God bless.

• 51:35Dr. John Delony?

  All right, brother. Thanks for being in our gang, dude. I'm so sorry this has happened, man.

• 51:38Speaker 02

  Thank you. Take care.

• 51:39Dr. John Delony?

  So, so, so sorry. We'll be right back.

• 51:44Dr. John Delony?

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• 52:25Dr. John Delony?

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• 53:10Dr. John Delony?

  That's J-O-I-N, joindelete.me/deloney. All right, we are back. I guess we're a month out from the last Money and Marriage event. We got tons of just pretty amazing questions that were part of a lot of the Q and As that we do. The October Money and Marriage and the February Money and Marriage for 2025 and 26 are already open. If you want to come join us in Nashville, Tennessee, it's an extraordinary weekend. But here's a question that comes from the Money and Marriage Weekend. "We are in our late 30s and we make about 250 grand a year." Dang Gina, maybe y'all are hiring. "We both come from families that struggled financially.

• 53:52Dr. John Delony?

  We've made more disposable income than we thought we'd ever make. We like to spend money on things like travel. Last year, we spent 20 grand on travel. Is that too much? How do we think through the best way to allocate 'extra money' and not feel guilty?" Man, this is something that actually my buddy Dave Ramsey's taught me about personally because I grew up with not a lot too, and my life has changed here now that I'm living in this, the last great loophole of mankind called podcasting.

• 54:26Dr. John Delony?

  Well, there's a couple of things here. Number one, if you find yourself with more money than you ever thought you would make, it's important to acknowledge the ratios. Meaning, if you make $30,000 a year, you're driving a used Corolla, and you're gonna drive it till it dies, right? Because that's X percentage of your annual salary. If you make $500,000 a year, then a nice used Lexus, a new Lexus, proportionally to your salary is less than that used Corolla was to when you made $30,000. So, there's something about the ratio that has given me peace, lets me exhale a little bit.

• 55:05Dr. John Delony?

  The second thing here is, some people who grew up with money very scarce, it's wired into your nervous system. Money is something to be afraid of, there's never gonna be enough, it's always gonna run out. That's just your body trying to take care of you. So, don't go to war with your body. But, I always tell people when you're making on a budget, to put money that you will give away, and put that at the top of the list. Giving is a way to enter into the world. As though, "I am participating in this world, I'm a person who gives, I'm a person of generosity." And, the second one is, I tell people who are struggling with scarcity mindsets, or that guilt feeling you have, put money away that you will spend on yourself.

• 55:48Dr. John Delony?

  You have to practice enjoyment, you have to practice joy, you have to practice peace. Those are just things we've never done before. It's great, it's good. And then, the last thing is, feeling guilty, you might feel guilty for a while. And so, you can come up with some tips or tricks, like, I don't know, "I'm gonna commit to giving away, if I'm gonna go on a vacation that costs X, I'm gonna give away a quarter of that money to a charity that I love, or to some friends who wanna send their kid to college, or whatever, to a family member, whatever." You can come up with stuff like that. I personally like the idea of feeling a little bit guilty, looking at the math, and saying, "Is math on my side here, yes."

• 56:30Dr. John Delony?

  And then, go on a vacation. And while you're on the vacation...

• 56:37Dr. John Delony?

  On these different travel experiences, which by the way, I think the data says spending money on experiences is, turns your default setting towards joy, happiness, if you will, more than buying stuff than things, right? You tend to fall back to baseline more, but go on the trip and feel it while you're there. I never pictured myself here. This is outside of my picture, but here I am on this really nice vacation. Here I am at a concert on the other side of the country. Here I am, and just be present in that space and then be grateful for it. Choosing to change your default setting from panic and running all the time to gratitude just helps.

• 57:17Dr. John Delony?

  But man, late 30s, make about 250K a year, you don't owe anybody any money. I'm gonna read that into this. If you owe people money, if your brain knows, we're on a $20,000 vacation and they're gonna take our cars from us if we get fired, then yeah, you're not gonna sleep. Your body would be failing if it let you sleep. If you have a mortgage out and they know, hey, we could lose the house if we don't, your body's not failing. It's working just as it should by giving you these feelings, these powerful emotions. But I think there's just some honesty in, man, I never thought I'd have a marriage this good. Feels weird when we're just sitting on the couch at peace. Man, I never thought I would be this healthy after I lost all this weight. I'm just gonna feel that for a minute.

• 58:00Dr. John Delony?

  I never thought we'd have money like this after growing up in a scarce environment. I'm just gonna sit in that discomfort for a minute and then I'm gonna be really grateful that we got struck by lightning and we're here. And I'm gonna be super, super, super generous. And then we're gonna book that trip because we're gonna go see the world. So hopefully that helps. Thank you for that question. And it happens more than you think. Get tons and tons of calls on The Ramsey Show. The other show that I co-host, people struggling with how to spend their money when they've actually get there, when struggling with, man, we worked really hard and we've saved up for this car, is it okay to get it? It's a very real thing. So thanks for the call. Thanks for being vulnerable and honest. Appreciate you. Love you guys. Bye.