#500: KevKev TimTim TalkTalk on Dragon Slaying, Lessons Learned, Viagra, and Assorted Nonsense

KevKev TimTim TalkTalk on Dragon Slaying, Lessons Learned, Viagra, and Assorted Nonsense | Brought to you by Wealthfront http://wealthfront.com/tim automated investing, Literati Kids http://literati.com/tim, a try-before-you-buy subscription book club, and Athletic Greens http://athleticgreens.com/tim all-in-one nutritional supplement. More on all three below. Kevin Rose (@KevinRose https://twitter.com/kevinrose)—technologist, serial entrepreneur, world-class investor, self-experimenter, and all-around wild and crazy guy—was the first guest on the podcast https://tim.blog/2014/04/22/tim-ferriss-podcast/ nearly seven years ago. We were in San Francisco, sitting at this huge wooden table, and I remember being very nervous. I didn’t know what to expect, but if people liked the idea, I promised to do at least six total episodes. 600M+ downloads and hundreds of guests later, Kevin is taking the reins and interviewing me for episode #500! Hard to believe it all started off as a lark. It’s arguably the biggest thing I’ve ever done, and without you all—my dear listeners—it wouldn’t be possible. Thank you for allowing me to do this work. I love it. 🙏 Please enjoy! This episode is brought to you by Literati Kids http://literati.com/tim, a try-before-you-buy subscription book club! Great children’s books open up new worlds for discovery. With Literati Kids http://literati.com/tim, your child can explore uncharted places every month, with spellbinding stories handpicked by experts. From art and escapades to tales of compassion and friendship, each Literati http://literati.com/tim box follows a new, enriching theme. And with personalized extras like stickers, surprises, and special guest artwork, every box is a fun and fresh adventure. Head to Literati.com/Tim http://literati.com/tim for twenty-five percent off your first two orders. Select your child’s book club and start them on a literary journey like no other. * This episode is also brought to you by Wealthfront http://wealthfront.com/Tim! Wealthfront http://wealthfront.com/Tim pioneered the automated investing movement, sometimes referred to as ‘robo-advising,’ and they currently oversee $20 billion of assets for their clients. It takes about three minutes to sign up, and then Wealthfront will build you a globally diversified portfolio of ETFs based on your risk appetite http://wealthfront.com/Tim and manage it for you at an incredibly low cost. Smart investing should not feel like a rollercoaster ride. Let the professionals do the work for you. Go to Wealthfront.com/Tim http://wealthfront.com/Tim and open a Wealthfront account today, and you’ll get your first $5,000 managed for free, for life http://wealthfront.com/Tim. Wealthfront http://wealthfront.com/Tim will automate your investments for the long term. Get started today at Wealthfront.com/Tim http://wealthfront.com/Tim. * This episode is also brought to you by Athletic Greens https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim. I get asked all the time, “If you could only use one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually Athletic Greens https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system. Right now, Athletic Greens https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim is offering you their Vitamin D Liquid Formula free with your first subscription purchase—a vital nutrient for a strong immune system and strong bones. Visit AthleticGreens.com/Tim https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim to claim this special offer today and receive the free Vitamin D Liquid Formula (and five free travel packs) with your first subscription purchase! That’s up to a one-year supply of Vitamin D as added value when you try their delicious and comprehensive all-in-one daily greens product. * If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-tim-ferriss-show/id863897795?mt=2/iTunes? It takes less than 60 seconds, and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. I also love reading the reviews! For show notes and past guests, please visit tim.blog/podcast https://tim.blog/podcast/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=podcast-description. Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (“5-Bullet Friday”) at tim.blog/friday https://go.tim.blog/5-bullet-friday-1/. For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts http://tim.blog/transcripts. Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books http://tim.blog/books. Follow Tim: Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss https://twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferriss https://instagram.com/timferriss/ Facebook: facebook.com/timferriss https://www.facebook.com/TimFerriss/ YouTube: youtube.com/timferriss https://www.youtube.com/timferriss Past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show http://tim.blog/podcast include Jerry Seinfeld https://tim.blog/2020/12/08/jerry-seinfeld/, Hugh Jackman https://tim.blog/2020/06/26/hugh-jackman/, Dr. Jane Goodall https://tim.blog/2020/04/16/jane-goodall/, LeBron James https://tim.blog/2018/11/27/lebron-james-mike-mancias/, Kevin Hart https://tim.blog/2020/05/20/kevin-hart/, Doris Kearns Goodwin https://tim.blog/2018/09/07/doris-kearns-goodwin-leadership/, Jamie Foxx https://tim.blog/2015/12/06/jamie-foxx/, Matthew McConaughey https://tim.blog/2020/10/19/matthew-mcconaughey/, Esther Perel https://tim.blog/2017/05/21/esther-perel/, Elizabeth Gilbert https://tim.blog/2020/05/08/elizabeth-gilbert/, Terry Crews https://tim.blog/2017/12/20/terry-crews-how-to-have-do-and-be-all-you-want/, Sia https://tim.blog/2020/08/12/sia/, Yuval Noah Harari https://tim.blog/2020/10/27/yuval-noah-harari/, Malcolm Gladwell https://tim.blog/2016/06/21/malcolm-gladwell/, Madeleine Albright https://tim.blog/2020/05/27/secretary-madeleine-albright/, Cheryl Strayed https://tim.blog/2017/03/30/cheryl-strayed/, Jim Collins https://tim.blog/2019/02/18/jim-collins/, Mary Karr, https://tim.blog/2020/11/11/mary-karr/ Maria Popova https://tim.blog/2014/10/21/brain-pickings/, Sam Harris https://tim.blog/2020/05/15/sam-harris-2/, Michael Phelps https://tim.blog/2021/01/21/michael-phelps-grant-hackett/, Bob Iger https://tim.blog/2020/01/16/bob-iger/, Edward Norton https://tim.blog/2019/10/31/edward-norton-motherless-brooklyn/, Arnold Schwarzenegger https://tim.blog/2015/02/02/arnold-schwarzenegger/, Neil Strauss https://tim.blog/2014/06/24/neil-strauss/, Ken Burns https://tim.blog/2019/09/12/ken-burns/, Maria Sharapova https://tim.blog/2017/08/26/maria-sharapova/, Marc Andreessen https://tim.blog/2016/05/29/marc-andreessen/, Neil Gaiman https://tim.blog/2019/03/28/neil-gaiman/, Neil de Grasse Tyson https://tim.blog/2019/10/03/neil-degrasse-tyson/, Jocko Willink https://tim.blog/2016/09/21/jocko-willink-on-discipline-leadership-and-overcoming-doubt/, Daniel Ek https://tim.blog/2020/12/03/daniel-ek/, Kelly Slater https://tim.blog/2020/09/08/kelly-slater/, Dr. Peter Attia https://tim.blog/2019/11/27/peter-attia-fasting-metformin-longevity/, Seth Godin https://tim.blog/2016/02/10/seth-godin/, Howard Marks https://tim.blog/2018/09/25/howard-marks/, Dr. Brené Brown https://tim.blog/2020/02/06/brene-brown-striving-self-acceptance-saving-marriages/, Eric Schmidt https://tim.blog/2019/04/09/eric-schmidt/, Michael Lewis https://tim.blog/2020/05/01/michael-lewis/, Joe Gebbia https://tim.blog/2018/03/08/joe-gebbia-co-founder-of-airbnb/, Michael Pollan https://tim.blog/2018/05/06/michael-pollan-how-to-change-your-mind/, Dr. Jordan Peterson https://tim.blog/2021/03/01/jordan-peterson/, Vince Vaughn https://tim.blog/2017/05/31/vince-vaughn/, Brian Koppelman https://tim.blog/2020/04/23/brian-koppelman/, Ramit Sethi https://tim.blog/2019/05/07/ramit-sethi/, Dax Shepard https://tim.blog/2020/11/18/dax-shepard/, Tony Robbins https://tim.blog/2014/10/15/money-master-the-game/, Jim Dethmer https://tim.blog/2020/05/18/jim-dethmer/, Dan Harris https://tim.blog/2020/11/19/dan-harris/, Ray Dalio https://tim.blog/2017/09/13/ray-dalio/, Naval Ravikant https://tim.blog/2015/08/18/the-evolutionary-angel-naval-ravikant/, Vitalik Buterin https://tim.blog/2021/03/08/vitalik-buterin-naval-ravikant/, Elizabeth Lesser https://tim.blog/2021/03/16/elizabeth-lesser/, Amanda Palmer https://tim.blog/2019/04/18/amanda-palmer-2/, Katie Haun https://tim.blog/2021/02/18/katie-haun/, Sir Richard Branson https://tim.blog/2017/10/09/richard-branson/, Chuck Palahniuk https://tim.blog/2020/09/02/chuck-palahniuk/, Arianna Huffington https://tim.blog/2017/10/18/arianna-huffington/, Reid Hoffman https://tim.blog/2015/08/31/the-oracle-of-silicon-valley-reid-hoffman-plus-michael-mccullough/, Bill Burr https://tim.blog/2017/09/17/bill-burr/, Whitney Cummings https://tim.blog/2015/06/26/whitney-cummings/, Rick Rubin https://tim.blog/2015/05/15/rick-rubin/, Dr. Vivek Murthy https://tim.blog/2020/03/26/vivek-murthy/, Darren Aronofsky https://tim.blog/2017/09/09/darren-aronofsky/, and many more. 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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by Literati Kids, a try before you buy a subscription book club. Great children's books open up new worlds for discovery. I remember as a kid, a handful of books that literally changed my life and still have informed my life. With Literati Kids, your child can explore uncharted places every month with spellbinding stories handpicked by experts. Each month, Literati delivers five vibrantly illustrated children's books, bringing the immersive magic of reading right into your home. Literati's age-based book clubs ensure appropriate reads for your budding bookworms, whether they're snuggling with you for storytime or letting their imagination roam free. So you can choose what is most appropriate for your child. Each book bundle is thoughtfully tailored by education experts with five stories meant

• 0:45Tim Ferriss?

  to spark new interests and nurture a healthy curiosity. So, no more sorting through hundreds of titles trying to guess what your child will cherish. Literati sends you the best in children's literature. Then you can choose to purchase the ones they love and you send the rest back for free. From art and escapades to tales of compassion and friendship, each Literati box follows a new and enriching theme. And with personalized extras like stickers, surprises, and special guest artwork, every box is a fun and fresh adventure. So, head to literati.com/tim, that's L-I-T-E-R-A-T-I dot com slash tim for 25% off your first two orders. Select your child's book club and start them on a literary journey like no other.

• 1:28Tim Ferriss?

  Literati.com/tim is the only place where you can get 25% off your first two orders of this one-of-a-kind book subscription. The most joyful way to foster a lifelong love of learning in your children. So check it out one more time, literati.com/tim. This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time what I would take if I could only take one supplement. The answer is invariably Athletic Greens. I view it as all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it, in fact, in The Four Hour Body. This is more than 10 years ago, and I did not get paid to do so. With approximately 75 vitamins, minerals-

• 2:10Tim Ferriss?

  And whole food sourced ingredients, you'd be very hard pressed to find a more nutrient dense and comprehensive formula on the market. It has multivitamins, multimineral, greens complex, probiotics and prebiotics for gut health, an immunity formula, digestive enzymes, adaptogens, and much more. I usually take it once or twice a day just to make sure I've covered my bases if I miss anything I'm not aware of. Of course, I focus on nutrient dense meals to begin with, that's the basis, but Athletic Greens makes it easy to get a lot of nutrition when whole foods aren't readily available. From travel packets, I always have them in my bag when I'm zipping around. Right now Athletic Greens is giving my audience a special offer on top of their all in one

• 2:50Tim Ferriss?

  formula, which is a free vitamin D supplement and five free travel packs with your first subscription purchase. Many of us are deficient in vitamin D, I've found that true for myself, which is usually produced in our bodies from sun exposure. So adding a vitamin D supplement to your daily routine is a great option for additional immune support. Support your immunity, gut health, and energy by visiting athleticgreens.com/tim. You'll receive up to a year's supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your subscription. Again, that's athleticgreens.com/tim. At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking. Can I answer your personal question?

• 3:33Speaker 01

  No, it is an inappropriate time.

• 3:35Speaker 02

  I'm a cybernetic organism, living tissue over metal and silicon.

• 3:49Tim Ferriss?

  Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Tim Ferriss Show, episode 500. I am your host, Tim Ferriss. I'm not Tim Ferriss. I'm Kevin Rose. Tim, thank you for having me, dude. I know I was your first guest on episode one, but I'm honored to be interviewing you for this episode. I am so thrilled and excited and wouldn't have it any other way. So I am stoked to be reunited. We have some wine. I have this kind of like magnum bottle of white wine. Kevin worried that I had already polished off seven eighths of it, but I had, I'm in the jungle with an Italian. There's more to that, but the table wine is courtesy of his

• 4:33Tim Ferriss?

  house and he gave me just enough to, it looks kind of like horse urine in this shot, but just enough to have fun without getting sloppy because we have a history with wine.

• 4:44Speaker 03

  You know, it's funny. I told Daria, I was like, okay, here's the deal. I'm going to pour two glasses into my glass and I don't care if I'm texting you, do not bring the bottle back down. I do not do it. And so I actually, but I totally screwed up and I brought the bottle and it's sitting next to me now, but it was a good plan for as long as it lasted. Dude, so you know, it's funny. I remember you came to me and you said, I think I want to do a podcast and you've done podcasts before because I had done like 300 episodes of Dignation prior to, you know, you starting yours. And I remember this is horrible, but it's true. I remember just being like, Tim, don't do a podcast. It's stupid. Well, I was trying to talk you out of

• 5:26Speaker 03

  it. I feel so bad for that now because you went and you did it. And obviously it's a massive success. So what do I know? But dude, 500.

• 5:33Tim Ferriss?

  You must've given me some type of good advice or the bad advice wasn't compelling enough. Yeah. Here we are. And I remember recording that first episode. We are in San Francisco, my first apartment I'd rented in San Francisco and this huge wooden table. And I remember being really nervous. We had all sorts of gear. We had all sorts of fancy,

• 5:58Tim Ferriss?

  like mixers and everything else. We had somebody helping. My hands are sweaty and I had a list of questions, a printout. And I remember in that first episode, number one, it was per your description, Tim, Tim, Talk Talk, because we didn't have a name. And then I remember asking you a question, which was, if you could be a breakfast cereal, what would you be and why? And you went, oh, it's one of those interviews.

• 6:30Tim Ferriss?

  And I was like, never again will I ask that question.

• 6:33Speaker 03

  You had to test them out, though. You know, not every question works. So you were new to the game.

• 6:38Tim Ferriss?

  It was good training. All right. So I saw you take a sip. So you've got your wine.

• 6:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:42Tim Ferriss?

  This is.

• 6:43Speaker 03

  So you're drinking the table wine.

• 6:44Tim Ferriss?

  I'm drinking grocery table wine Familia Cielo, C I E L O, from 1908 Pinot Grigio. And this is what this Italian family has been drinking. Out of my fancy, yeah, like 12 ounce water glass, since I don't have any wine glasses.

• 7:02Speaker 03

  I am doing the 2016 Napa Valley Reserve. It is fantastic white wine. Just a little Chardonnay. Good stuff.

• 7:11Tim Ferriss?

  Congrats on being guest number 500. And congrats to a longstanding friendship, honestly. It's been.

• 7:21Speaker 03

  Cheers to that, brother.

• 7:22Tim Ferriss?

  Lots of, lots of adventures. So cheers.

• 7:25Speaker 03

  Yeah. Cheers.

• 7:26Tim Ferriss?

  Really nice to, really nice to have continued to deepen and stay in touch over all these years.

• 7:33Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 7:34Tim Ferriss?

  I feel like that is probably as sentimental as it's going to get. And you seem to have lots of arrows in the quiver for questions. You gave me a lot of warnings via, via, via text message, and I have not reviewed anything.

• 7:48Speaker 03

  Well, so this was the cool thing is I was putting together a Google Doc and I was like, okay, Tim, we'll share the Google Doc. I'll put some questions in there and tell me what you think. And he's like, actually, I'd rather do this just sight unseen. Let's, let's just roll with it. So I went out, you know, did a little Twitter post. You retweeted it. We got a few hundred questions there. Also, some of your good friends, like Mr. Chris Saka, who's a mutual friend of ours, reached out and sent me some, some very colorful questions, if you will. So I kind of, I'm kind of saving those for a little bit. Well, actually, I'm going to start with a soccer one. But some of the more, the more juicier ones are going to be peppered in a little bit later in the show.

• 8:28Speaker 03

  So this is fun. This is a good, a good mix of, of serious and crazy. And yeah, it's a smorgasbord of questions, if you will.

• 8:38Tim Ferriss?

  A grab bag of podcasting delights. I'm ready.

• 8:40Speaker 03

  Okay. So here we go. I'm actually going to lead off with a soccer question because he sent so many good ones. He said, what one thing do you eat that you've never wanted to admit to the four hour body tribe?

• 8:57Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, boy. Well, I will say the first thing that comes to mind because it's a recent example is if I've had two or more glasses of wine and there is pizza within 30 feet of me,

• 9:10Tim Ferriss?

  it's game over. It's completely game over. So I was having a bunch of pizza and by a bunch, I mean, like six to 10 slices, just a few days ago. And this was at the tail end of a bottle of wine. And my friend, one of my friends I was with here said, what would all of your readers of the four hour body say? While you're prohibiting them from eating carbs, look at yourself. And so that's, that's the first thing that comes to mind. If there are any Tim Tams nearby, Tim Tams are this cookie treat that I just think are delicious. They're amazing. And there's the Tim Tam Slam, which is when you dunk it into something like milk or any number of other things. Tim Tams are

• 9:55Tim Ferriss?

  also dangerous territory. So those are the pizza and Tim Tams.

• 9:57Speaker 03

  When you say 30 feet away, do you mean that like your phone is 30 feet away and you order pizza and have it delivered to your house? Because that's my, that's what I do. That's my downfall.

• 10:06Tim Ferriss?

  I'm, I'm eliminating the phone from this. If I walk, let's just say, pre-COVID times, yeah, had a few drinks, I'm walking down a street to get to wherever I'm going and we pass a pizza joint, or if it's within like excusable rationalizing distance, like, oh, let's just go over, take a look at the menu, right? If it's a right turn and you have to go a quarter mile, I'm not going to do it. So I'll try to preserve some dignity. But if it's within wandering distance, say, there's a place called Home Slice on South Congress in Austin, and it's, it's dangerously, dangerously close to the main kind of pedestrian area. So I would, I would, I would succumb.

• 10:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, we're in the same camp. If anything is within a couple of blocks of my house, it's like game over. Like, that's just gonna happen all the time. All right. So next, next question. Love the show. However, it seems that you're constantly searching for the next big life hack, next product that will satisfy, etc. That would be exhausting and would lead to constant anxiety. My question, Tim, have you found peace outside of having things or knowing things?

• 11:17Tim Ferriss?

  That's a damn fine question. Is this from the interwebs?

• 11:20Speaker 03

  It is.

• 11:21Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. My relationship to self-improvement or thinking about hacks and so on has changed over time. And the word hack used to not have as much baggage as it now does. So I use that term effectively never these days because it's just established such a, or taken on such a kind of nasty, negative overtone. But I'll tell a story. I think this illustrates how I'm reorienting quite easily. And that is I was spending time with an incredible, I want to say psychiatrist.

• 12:04Tim Ferriss?

  He's also, I want to say an ordained minister. I may be getting some of the details wrong here. Maybe it's a masters of divinity. I don't know. Named Bill Richards. And Bill Richards is well known also for being one of the most experienced, let's call it guides or facilitators above ground in the psychedelic world. So he's facilitated hundreds of sessions along with a woman named Mary Cosimo, who's equally impressive in so many ways and just an incredible human being. And I spent time with Bill. He supervised years and years of sessions, both

• 12:43Tim Ferriss?

  pre-prohibition, meaning pre the Controlled Substances Act and post. So he's done all sorts of trainings all over the world. And there were two things that stood out from that conversation immediately. Number one, I asked him what books he could recommend for learning more about the process of guiding, the protocols they use, da, da, da, da, da, da. And he said, well, so you know the problem with books. And I was like, what's the problem with books? And he said, too many words. Again, it gives you an idea of his personality. And then the second thing he said was related to doing the work. Because I said, I'm not afraid to do the work. And he said, well,

• 13:24Tim Ferriss?

  you know, what's so tricky about doing the work? And I asked him what it was that was so tricky? And he said, well, there's a very thin line between doing the work and just picking on yourself.

• 13:38Tim Ferriss?

  So I think that self-improvement and how much it affects you positively or negatively, for me personally, depends a lot on the motivation behind it, right? Like, are you running away from something? Or are you running towards something? Are you finding problems with yourself or problems in your life just because you've been rewarded throughout your life as a problem solver? I think that's true for me. It's true for a lot of people. You're just good at solving problems. You get really good at finding problems.

• 14:05Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 14:06Tim Ferriss?

  Or are you doing it because there's some joy in doing it? Right? So for instance, right now, I'm trying to pick up a couple of different games, like board games, chess, there are a number of things. And I find those really fun. So I'm improving my thinking and so on, looking at a game of complete information like chess, learning about classical games and all this stuff. La Galle's mate, I think, is one that I learned yesterday, which is just gorgeous with two knights. And I'm a novice, but I'm having so much fun doing it. Versus, let's just say, a contrast with that would be a therapy session that I had yesterday,

• 14:47Tim Ferriss?

  where we got into all this childhood stuff and revisited a bunch of trauma. And I came out of the session feeling much worse than when I went into it. And it occurred to me that I think that we can feel like we're doing a good thing sometimes when we're suffering and grinding, but that does not by default mean that we're doing something worthwhile or improving. And so after that session, I sort of committed to myself not to dredge up all of the pain from the past in the name of doing the work just because I can.

• 15:28Tim Ferriss?

  So I feel like I have a very good relationship to hacks and all that stuff. Now, it doesn't cause me stress and in fact, it never really has. But I think for a very long time, I looked for problems to solve because I was good at solving problems and not all of those problems were worthwhile. And many of those problems were just masochistic, if that makes any sense.

• 15:52Speaker 03

  It does. How do you apply this, though, to actual products? Like, for example, you know, you do the Five Bullet Friday, really famous newsletter. You're finding all kinds of stuff. I imagine people are, they just send you free stuff. Like, if you have any kind of following, it's like very common on the internet. People want to try and send you things to check out. Like, how do you not just accumulate a bunch of crap? Like, I find that every little object you own is some type of subconscious, like, burden. You know, it's just like, just storing it.

• 16:18Tim Ferriss?

  Totally. It's just psychic drag. It's like, imagine dragging all that shit around behind you in like a net.

• 16:25Speaker 03

  So what do you, what do you do? What do you do there? Because you must see so, and get so much stuff. Like, how do you clear that out? How do you not try out the latest product?

• 16:33Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Number one is, I really don't encourage people to send things to me. I mean, you know this because for better or for worse, you've turned into my unpaid executive assistant. So people will try to go through you and I'm just like, nah, I'm good. I'm good for now. And what I'll very often do, number one, I have policies. So I try to make one decision that removes a thousand decisions, right? So even in 2009, I was getting 30 to 40 books sent to me by publishers or authors per week. That's, that's impossible, right? You can't even begin to read those, let alone have your own life with your own priorities

• 17:16Tim Ferriss?

  if you bend to that type of incoming. So I initially just said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And they're all, but even saying no is exhausting and took a lot of time when you start to have not 30, 40 a week, but several hundred a week. And I then posted, for instance, a blog post, which is a general policy of not reading any new books in 2020, meaning any books published in 2020. I've extended that to 2021. I'm not reading any books published in 2021. So when someone asks me, or asks someone on my team, they can say, ah, sorry, Tim's just not doing that. Check out tim.blog/newbooks.

• 18:00Speaker 03

  Just backdate your book, basically.

• 18:02Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it depersonalizes it. So it makes it easier to say no, and it makes it easier for other people to receive no. The other thing is like, if someone's like, hey, let me send you blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, free product, free, fill in the blank. The first thing you gotta remember is like, I remember somebody said once, and I can't remember the attribution, but like, free sex is the most expensive sex you'll ever have, right? That's true for free books. That's true for free product. It's not free. There's gonna be, if you have an audience, there's gonna be a lot follow up. And sometimes it's like, oh, my God, 10 years later, I've had 73 emails from this person. Don't open that door. So if someone says, hey, I'd love for you to try X. If it's a really close

• 18:46Tim Ferriss?

  friend, and I know they're putting their like, reputation on the line and putting some skin in the game, right? They're risking something, then maybe. But very rarely, if it's a book or something else, I'm like, you know what? I'll buy it myself.

• 18:58Speaker 03

  So how do you, around the purchasing side of it, like, how do you make a decision to actually buy something? Like, how do you prevent yourself from overspending on items? Like, is there anything that you use to be more minimal?

• 19:10Tim Ferriss?

  Well, I know you've, you've had this snooze function, right? Where you will allow yourself to make the 3am Amazon purchase. You have to hit snooze for 24 hours.

• 19:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:20Tim Ferriss?

  So this brings up questions related to some level of what people might consider success, right? So you end up in situations, and this is a very rarefied situation. So I want to acknowledge that upfront. Like, you and I are in very fortunate positions. But let's say I get sent a bunch of shit. Somehow it gets sent to me, and it's not useful to me. I'm not interested in it, but it could be very useful to someone else.

• 19:47Tim Ferriss?

  Let's take an easy example. Someone sends me a bunch of schwag, right? Like sweatshirts and hats and so on. It's like, I have more, I have enough clothing to last me forever. I don't need any more t-shirts. None of it.

• 20:02Tim Ferriss?

  The cheapest thing for me to do is to throw that out, right? To literally throw it in the trash. Okay. Then there are karmically better things to do, like taking it to Goodwill, which is what I usually do. And then I'm paying an assistant 20, 30, 40 dollars an hour to do that. Right? I could return something. This is another consideration, right? Like, am I actually going to return something if I don't want it? The answer is likely no. So I really try to measure twice and cut once in those cases. And I think I am disinclined to buy too many things right now.

• 20:45Tim Ferriss?

  Although, if you looked at my Amazon order history, that might sound ridiculous. But compared to, say, even a few years ago, I buy far fewer things because the, for me, the visual punishment of having a disordered kitchen table, of having a disordered house, is so irritating. I'm very visually sensitive. I'm kind of like Monk from the TV show in that way. I dislike that so much, and I dislike waste so much. This is particularly true of food. I'm very sensitive to food waste, that it's sort of a self-correcting system in that way.

• 21:30Tim Ferriss?

  I've become much more sensitive to clutter in the last few years.

• 21:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, that makes sense. All right, let's move on to the next question. Is there any advice you used, given to you, or that you have given in the past, that wasn't the best? Not trying to be a troublemaker, I'm just wondering how high performers know when to course correct, e.g., abandon faulty notions.

• 21:56Tim Ferriss?

  That's a very good, yeah, it does make sense. That's a very good, and it's a very important question, right? Because you always get advice from people who have done well, or you see advice from people who've done well, and there's a survivorship bias, right? It's like...

• 22:15Tim Ferriss?

  The Warren Buffett parable of sorts, maybe it's not a parable, maybe it's a metaphor. I always mix up metaphor and analogy. In any case, maybe it's a simile. I can never keep those straight, but he talks about if you take like 10,000 orangutans and they're flipping quarters, like eventually you're going to end up with one orangutan who is like flipped heads 100 times. And then that orangutan is going to write books about how to flip quarters and beat the stock market. And like, so there's so much chance involved and there's such a survivorship bias, meaning you only see the advertisements for the mutual funds that survive in a magazine like Barron's or whatever. It's important to ask that question. And I'm saying all of that to buy myself some time because I

• 23:00Tim Ferriss?

  know those must exist. I'll give one. I'll give one. I had an incredible aversion to any type of investment in publicly traded equities, in stocks, until just a few years ago. You know this, you've watched this.

• 23:16Speaker 03

  Yeah. Were you telling people not to invest in stocks? Or was this something someone told you? So was it advice that you gave or advice that you received? Because that

• 23:24Tim Ferriss?

  was It was advice. It was advice that I received from a few people I respect who were very uncomfortable in investing in publicly traded equities because they felt like they could not directly impact the value of those companies. And these were startup investors. And that made a lot of sense to me at the time. And that logic still makes sense, right? Like, what am I going to do to increase the market cap and the price per share of Tesla, right? Like, very, very little. I mean, I suppose my audience is large enough that maybe for a day I could like register a blip, maybe, but really not much. And my thinking has

• 24:05Tim Ferriss?

  become more nuanced, right? Because the argument that I can't have a substantial impact on the price per share, therefore I shouldn't invest is kind of two parts, right? So the assumption that I can't have a substantial impact on price per share, that's valid. But does that therefore lead to the conclusion I should not invest? Other considerations. So thinking about timeline, right? So if I'm trying to invest in a company over six months, I have zero confidence or very little confidence unless there is a huge drop for some reason that I think is unwarranted. But if it's over a two, three year time horizon and I don't feel any pressure to trade,

• 24:45Tim Ferriss?

  then I've become much more comfortable investing in a hand, excuse me, a handful. Got the wine burps already after one glass. I feel much more comfortable investing in a handful of companies that I feel are kind of inevitable. Unless they're grossly mismanaged, like from a tech trend perspective, they're kind of inevitably going to do decently well over a two to three year period.

• 25:09Speaker 03

  So how did you know when to course correct though? That was actually a really interesting part of the guy's question is like, as a high performer, like, you know, it's easy to get really kind of into someone's advice, especially if it comes from someone that's like super vetted and you really believe in. Like, when did you decide like, this is bad advice? I need to change this.

• 25:27Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. You're good at this. You should interview people.

• 25:32Tim Ferriss?

  So I think it was forced upon me in a way by COVID in this particular instance, because I was sitting in almost, well, I shouldn't say entirely cash, but largely in cash, like, let's call it just for the sake of argument, 50% cash.

• 25:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was so dumb.

• 25:52Tim Ferriss?

  Well, maybe.

• 25:54Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, when you're in all cash, you're losing by just by inflation, you're losing money. Just let it sit there.

• 26:00Tim Ferriss?

  Well, we could debate, we could fight over this one for a long time. I slept well at night for several years because I had a huge, because I had a bed of cash and I don't think that should be underestimated. I don't think a good investment is a good investment if it has really high returns, but you're like sweating bullets within insomnia. Right? And that's a very personal thing. So for me, having a lot of reserves in cash helped me sleep.

• 26:32Tim Ferriss?

  I don't regret it, but when COVID hit and right before COVID hit and there was the gigantic plummet, I knew there was going to be a plummet or I suspected with high conviction, there was going to be a gigantic plummet. I was not savvy with options or credit default swaps. That was just not on the menu for me. But I thought there were going to be buying opportunities in many places. And so then the question was, well, I've been sitting on the sidelines. I said I would be back. Even in 2015, right now, we have to be aware of the sunk cost fallacy, not the sunk cost fallacy, but the confirmation bias and all these various things where it's like, if I publicly stated, like when there's blood in the streets, I will be back and I will invest.

• 27:15Tim Ferriss?

  I said that in 2015 when I quote unquote retired from startup investing. But I deeply believed it. I was like, this is, I don't, as Tim Ferriss is the person who really understands very few aspects of investing with any competence. I don't get a lot of fat pitches like this. And I was like, where am I going to put money? Like I have all this money that I have claimed I've been waiting to deploy. What the fuck am I going to do with it? And I spoke with dozens of investors, not just two people I respected, and ultimately came to believe very deeply in a few positions.

• 27:54Tim Ferriss?

  Whether the consequences severe and also extended of COVID on both the economy, on technology, on behavior were acute or two, three years long. Companies I felt would, would really benefit in either scenario. And the liquidity profile of equities, right? Like you want to get out, you can get out. You might get kicked in the balls from a tax perspective, et cetera, but you have liquidity, unlike a lot of the stuff that we do, right? Like you put money in and like you are in, like your chips are on the table for, you know, five to 10 years. We both have examples that are way past 10 years. And so that would be an example.

• 28:38Tim Ferriss?

  The example is interesting, not because equities, not because the stock market, not because blah, blah, blah. It's the process, right? And I was lucky to have a forcing function. I will say, here's another one. I have really relied on dietary interventions and exercise and so on for manipulating my blood markers.

• 29:00Tim Ferriss?

  Right? My blood tests for a long time. And if you look at my lipid profile, so my, let's just say my cardiac and lipid profile, genetically speaking, I have terrible, terrible, terrible software for a few things. It doesn't matter if I'm vegan. I've tried that for a period of time, just to see what it did for my blood. It doesn't matter if I'm fasting. I've done tons of fasting, pure keto, doesn't matter if I eat all meat. I've tried all these things, and I've looked at the blood tests, and my ApoB count and various other things are terrible. They're so bad. You me both, man. It sucks. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just like, look, I have, my dad's had a heart attack. My uncles

• 29:45Tim Ferriss?

  have had strokes and cardiac issues. This is a, like, we just got dealt a really shitty hand from a cardiac perspective. And I've never considered going on medication, like Zetamibe is the one I'm considering, long term or indefinitely. But after doing cardiac calcium scoring, which is zero currently, but also angiograms and all of these things that are more nuanced and provide more detail, I've kind of changed my tune. I think there is a point where the risk benefit ratio leads one to the conclusion that it makes sense, right? And this is true with also like the vaccines, right? I think the COVID vaccines

• 30:30Tim Ferriss?

  make overwhelming sense for a very high percentage of the population. So that would, those would be two examples. Yeah, that's great. Awesome.

• 30:44Tim Ferriss?

  Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors, and we'll be right back to the show. This episode is brought to you by Wealthfront. Did you know if you missed 10 of the best performing days after the 2008 crisis, you would have missed out on 50%, 5-0% of your returns? Don't miss out on the best days in the market. Stay invested in a long-term automated investment portfolio. Wealthfront pioneered the automated investing movement, sometimes referred to as robo-advising. And they currently oversee $20 billion of assets for their clients. Wealthfront can help you diversify your portfolio, minimize fees and lower your taxes. Takes about three minutes to sign up and then Wealthfront will build you a globally diversified portfolio of ETFs based on your risk appetite and manage it for you at an incredibly low

• 31:27Tim Ferriss?

  cost. Wealthfront software constantly monitors your portfolio day in and day out, so you don't have to. They look for opportunities to rebalance and tax loss harvest to lower the amount of taxes you pay on your investment gains. Their newest service is called Autopilot and it can monitor any checking account for excess cash to move into savings or an investment account. They've really thought of a ton. They've checked a lot of boxes. Smart investing should not feel like a roller coaster ride. Let the professionals do the work for you. Go to wealthfront.com/tim and open a Wealthfront investment account today and you'll get your first $5,000 managed for free for life. That's wealthfront.com/tim. Wealthfront will automate your investments for the long term and you can get started today at wealthfront.com/tim.

• 32:14Speaker 03

  All right, another question. I'll let you try and guess who this one is from. Ends with Aka. When was the last time, when was the last time a blood or urine sample was stored in your fridge?

• 32:28Tim Ferriss?

  That's a good one.

• 32:30Speaker 03

  Cause there was a time when you open up your fridge and it's like a six pack of beer. There's just urine everywhere. Like

• 32:35Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, there's urine, blood. Stool samples were the best with the biohazard marker on it. Yeah, you have to be very careful in the Ferris household. You also, you also really don't want to take any supplements until you confirm that the label corresponds to what is actually in the bottle. You have to be very cautious.

• 32:55Speaker 03

  I was in your house. I went to the bathroom one time and like, I don't know, you had the cupboard opener or some shit and I look up and it's like, it's like a freaking Walgreens dude. Like you had thousands of supplements. I was like, how does he take all this stuff? I mean, I guess you just were accumulating over time.

• 33:11Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it's been accumulating over time. I, I also have dramatically reduced the number of supplements that I take. But all right. So as far as blood, blood and urine samples go, I haven't stored any of that in the refrigerator for a long time. Now,

• 33:30Tim Ferriss?

  Doesn't mean that I haven't taken samples. So the last time I took, let's see, blood and urine samples, I mean, within the last two weeks or three weeks, within the last three weeks. But I, I have realized during COVID that there is such a thing called mobile phlebotomy. So you can, rather than going into Quest or one of these labs to have a draw performed or into your doctor's office, there are in fact, services or people who provide mobile blood draws. So you can set an appointment, you could even meet them outside and literally, it's like you wake up, you probably do not eat breakfast, but you wake up, you're fasting and you have a blood draw within five to 10 minutes.

• 34:13Speaker 03

  They're actually not that expensive either. I looked into, I had one happen here in Oregon and it was like 50 bucks to have it done. And it's fantastic. Like what, what a, especially during COVID, dude, you don't want to be around like 15 other people in a room.

• 34:27Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it's amazing. I have found it to be a godsend and really, really convenient. Mobile phlebotomist, for people who are wondering how it's spelled, phlebotomist is P H, P H L, phlebotomist with a bunch of E's and O's and other Wheel of Fortune ingredients. All right.

• 34:47Speaker 03

  All right. I will say though, that people wanted us to get, a lot of the comments was they get personal, like get into it. I will tell one other little story. When I, when I was leaving your house that one time, remember this is a long time ago, it's like a decade ago or something. You, you're like, you're like, okay, like most friends, they say like goodbye, like, you know, give you a hug or whatever, fist bump, whatever. You like hand me like, you're like, all right, dude, like have a good one. Like, and you hand me like a bottle of beef liver pills. Do you remember this?

• 35:13Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, those are great.

• 35:15Speaker 03

  I'm like, yeah, okay, cool friend. Thanks for the beef liver. You didn't even tell me what to do with them. It's like, hey, take some beef liver on your way out.

• 35:22Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, those were, that's desiccated beef liver from grass fed cows in Argentina. I remember that. Yeah, those, I had a friend who was deficient in all sorts of things. I gave him those and he took them and he was like, I feel like I'm on crack. Like I've so much energy that I cannot even begin to understand how tired I was for so long. So yes.

• 35:48Tim Ferriss?

  Offhand, I don't.

• 35:49Speaker 03

  I don't either.

• 35:50Tim Ferriss?

  It's on Amazon. I know that I ordered it on Amazon.

• 35:52Speaker 03

  Nice.

• 35:53Tim Ferriss?

  So.

• 35:53Speaker 03

  All right.

• 35:54Tim Ferriss?

  Caveat emptor, beware, you're not all beef liver pills are created equal.

• 35:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, you don't want like nasty hormone injected beef liver pills like don't.

• 36:03Tim Ferriss?

  No, no.

• 36:04Speaker 03

  All right. So going a little bit more sensitive. I wish we had like some background music that we could play while this kicks in.

• 36:11Tim Ferriss?

  I bet, I bet we can figure out some background.

• 36:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:15Tim Ferriss?

  We'll make it happen.

• 36:15Speaker 03

  Sweet. You have the resources. How, how did you meet and fall in love with your girlfriend?

• 36:26Tim Ferriss?

  Just a quick note from the editor in post-production. This is Tim. I had to cut part of this one for privacy reasons, but I love you all very much. Now, back to our show.

• 36:39Tim Ferriss?

  Which, which is a strong hand. Like, that's a good move. And I was very interested. So texted her, we had a drink, we met up and rest is history.

• 36:50Speaker 03

  That's amazing.

• 36:51Tim Ferriss?

  That was quite a few years ago.

• 36:52Speaker 03

  So let me ask you a question though, because I gotta, your fans are gonna want this. I have to do it. I apologize, Tim. It says in the, the actual question, fall in love. So when was the like, like for me, you know, you talked about what, when I met Daria at the bar, we talked about Zelda and she was a big Zelda fan. I was like, oh my God, I could love this girl. Like, was there something that jumped out during that first couple of dates where you're just like, this girl could be an amazing match for me?

• 37:19Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, it was, and again.

• 37:21Speaker 03

  What were the traits? Like, was there anything that you jumped out as like a common movie, like something she said that was funny? Like, what was it that, that like started to check those boxes for you?

• 37:30Tim Ferriss?

  You know, it was none of that. It was none of the data points or things she said.

• 37:40Tim Ferriss?

  Like, oh, we have that in common. Oh, our values are aligned. It was more of a feeling like I felt very at ease with her. I felt like I didn't need to have my defenses up. I felt like there were, I was very confident there were no ulterior motives.

• 37:58Speaker 03

  That is the hugest thing for you, dude. That's awesome.

• 38:00Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Yeah. I just felt very comfortable and she was so playful and funny and light. Basically all the things I'm not most of the time.

• 38:14Tim Ferriss?

  And she also gave me so much energy. You know what I'm talking about? Like, that's a big deal.

• 38:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:20Tim Ferriss?

  Right? Like there, there are people who drain your energy and there are people who give you energy. And there are people, some people who are maybe neutral, but I think over time, as you interact with more people, as you get older, certainly as you develop an audience of any type, you become much more sensitive to that. Because you're much more exposed to it.

• 38:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:39Tim Ferriss?

  And she just gave me so much energy. I mean, it was such a net positive for my state of being. And I think that drove it. And yes, we ended up having all of these values in common. Yes, we ended up having lots of priorities and interests in common, but that was secondary to the feeling.

• 39:02Speaker 03

  That's so cool that, you know, one of the things that, you know, you know, I've talked about privately a lot that I think is worth mentioning. You can always cut it out like you do.

• 39:12Speaker 03

  By the way, just so people know, you've cut out some shit out of previous podcasts. I don't cut this out.

• 39:17Tim Ferriss?

  Well.

• 39:17Speaker 03

  I wanted to tell people.

• 39:18Tim Ferriss?

  There are now for some very good legal reasons in some cases, but yes, continue.

• 39:25Speaker 03

  So I was just gonna say that I love that she brings down, brought the anxiety level down for you. Because one of the things that, that I know is, is tough for, for almost probably anybody that has some, some fame and fortune as you have. It's like, there are so many people that would date you, you know, because of your quote unquote Tim Ferriss. And like, there's, there's money and fame that goes along with that, right? So you could go to LA and you, there's any number of people I'm sure that you could date because of those reasons. And because of that, I know you've had a pretty big wall, like you put up a wall to protect yourself. Cause that's not what you want. You want someone long-term. You don't want just like some rando. And it's cool that she, no, it's cool that she brought that down though. Like, that's a huge thing for you to find. I'm, I'm happy about that.

• 40:10Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I'm happy about it too. Thrilled about it. It's uh, it's fucking weird, you know, having, uh, you know, meeting people who, let's just say eight times out of 10 have Googled your name beforehand. That's fucking weird. Yeah. It's really, really strange and you have to be very careful because let's not kid ourselves. Like there are a lot of sharks out there. Yeah. It's been really nice and her parents are amazing. I've spent a lot of time with her parents and she's very down to earth and by down to earth, I say that in the most complimentary

• 40:50Tim Ferriss?

  way possible, right? By down to earth, like it makes me think of, uh, I think his name is Donald Nuth, K N U T H, but at some point he disavowed email. I think he was at IBM. I might be making that up. And he said, email is great for keeping on top of things. He's like, but I don't want to keep on top of things. I want to get to the bottom of things. I'm paraphrasing here, but people who are down to earth from my perspective are like getting to the bottom of things. They're aware of like the tectonic plate level of things moving and their awareness is much more grounded, I use that word again, in

• 41:34Tim Ferriss?

  what I would consider a true reality than a lot of the people who are higher up in the stack, right, of abstraction. So there's a computer science analogy here, but I won't belabor that because I'll just embarrass myself. The point being, I felt like she really had her feet on the ground and was paying attention to the important things. She had an awareness, including a self-awareness, perhaps principle among all of those, that led me to feel very comfortable, right? But when people are surfing the chop, right? When they're on the surface and it's like whatever's trending on Twitter is directing

• 42:14Tim Ferriss?

  their attention for hours a day, even if they're on some level at their core, really good people, it makes them a liability. Does that make sense? Because they're so easily swayed.

• 42:28Tim Ferriss?

  To one channel or direction or meme or hashtag or movement or crisis like that's a very unpredictable person. I was on cue. That was good. I liked that.

• 42:41Speaker 03

  My phone's ringing. I don't know why. Oh, he called me twice. Sorry. You get pushed through. Let's keep going.

• 42:49Tim Ferriss?

  No problem. Who was that? Was that your bail bonds?

• 42:52Speaker 03

  This is Tony, Tony Conrad, just freaking calling multiple times.

• 42:55Tim Ferriss?

  Fucking Tony Conrad.

• 42:56Speaker 03

  Ruining, ruining the podcast.

• 42:58Tim Ferriss?

  God damn it. Tony's a good friend. So I feel free to give him shit. If you guys actually want to, just as a side note, research a really good, early-stage investor who's a good dude and really likes his coffee and he will tell you about Blue Bottle. So be prepared. You should check out Tony Conrad.

• 43:20Speaker 03

  He's a good guy.

• 43:20Tim Ferriss?

  Also partner at your firm. So he's a colleague, a coworker.

• 43:24Speaker 03

  He's done some good deals. He's got a great eye. Um, all right. So, uh, let's move on to the next question. Name a mistake you made in one of your books that you wish you could take back.

• 43:36Speaker 03

  There has to be something. Don't say there. I don't know.

• 43:39Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, there's gotta be something. I mean, there are probably hundreds of them. Uh,

• 43:44Tim Ferriss?

  my books are fucking long. I mean, you have so many opportunities.

• 43:46Speaker 03

  I mean, the four hour body, there had to be something like the consumption of horse urine or there was something in there that you have to.

• 43:52Tim Ferriss?

  Well, I mean, there was one mistake that I pulled out. So in the first edition of the four hour body, there's a whole chapter on extended breath holds. And I realized that's just too dangerous. People don't understand the safety precautions you need to take for breath holds. And it was yanked.

• 44:09Speaker 03

  So that did it actually make it depressed?

• 44:11Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it made it depressed for one printing. That was a David Blaine chapter talking about how he trained me to hold my breath for like five minutes. And I realized that you just have to assume that 90% of the people out there aren't going to read any of the safety cautionary tales, right? They're not going to read the caveats. They're not going to read the preamble. They're going to skip straight to the how to and it's, it's, it's very dangerous. So that was one.

• 44:38Speaker 03

  How about any of the science? Cause the science changes so fast. Is there anything you look back on and you're like, oh gosh, that's just not accurate anymore?

• 44:44Tim Ferriss?

  Well, I will say there was a weight loss stack of supplements called PAG,

• 44:50Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 44:51Tim Ferriss?

  nicknamed PAG, which was polycosinol, probably mispronouncing that, but I've only read it, never heard it said. In fact, alpha lipoic acid, garlic extract, like Allison, and green tea extract, preferably decaffeinated. And of that stack, the most suspect or questionable of those is the first, polycosinol. And there are some studies that came out of Cuba, but I'm like, how much can you trust that if they're exporting sugarcane and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah? So I would say if I were to put anything on the chopping block, it would probably be polycosinol.

• 45:34Tim Ferriss?

  And really, the evidence for that, from an NF1 perspective, was my own personal experience. There seemed to be some effect on cholesterol or lipid metabolism with polycosinol that increased fat loss above and beyond that, which I was able to achieve with AGG. But that is not doubly blinded, that is not randomized, that's not placebo controlled, so.

• 46:03Speaker 03

  But the ALA is in there for fat loss, right?

• 46:06Tim Ferriss?

  Uh, yeah. So yeah, alpha lipoic acid is insulinomimetic, as I understand it. It imitates and produces some analogous effect to insulin to a lesser degree. So alpha lipoic acid is interesting. If you overconsume it, it can cause all sorts of issues, which is true of a lot of things, like you overconsume zinc, it can inhibit copper absorption. Like you have to be very careful with supplements, which is part of the reason why I have.

• 46:38Tim Ferriss?

  Really reduced the number of supplements that I consume.

• 46:41Speaker 03

  Well, this is a great segue into that question. Actually, it's like, what do you consume these days in terms of supplements?

• 46:47Tim Ferriss?

  Not much. I take zinc occasionally. I do find it to help sleep. I do find it to help lucid dream induction, which we've talked about before. I find zinc interesting also from an immune perspective, but if you overtake it or you take it too consistently, it can cause all sorts of issues. I take right now, B12 and L-methylfolate, Jaro specifically. That is-

• 47:15Speaker 03

  Your homocysteine levels? Or is that why?

• 47:18Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah, related to homocysteine. So that is dependent on my personal blood profile. So that doesn't mean everyone listening to this should take that.

• 47:28Speaker 03

  Right.

• 47:29Tim Ferriss?

  And I also am taking right now, Sisus quadrangularis, which kind of has a funny tie into us, actually, and also methylsophatyl methane, or MSM. I'm taking both of those because I'm nursing a wrist injury and I found them to be very helpful with joint injuries or a connective tissue, ligament, tendon issues. So Sisus quadrangularis is what I took on during our trip to China. I took alpha-lipoic acid and Sisus, S-I-S-S-U-S quadrangularis, you'll figure it out. I took those two together before every meal because

• 48:13Tim Ferriss?

  we were eating pounds of fucking rice every day.

• 48:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:18Tim Ferriss?

  And I would be doing workouts in my like, skivvies with my backpack. You remember that?

• 48:24Speaker 03

  Once you see Tim Ferriss in his underwear doing air squats in front of your bed, like you cannot unsee that shit.

• 48:31Tim Ferriss?

  And you said something to the effect of like

• 48:34Speaker 03

  I said, quit doing air squats in your fucking underwear.

• 48:37Tim Ferriss?

  Well, there was that, there was that for sure. And then there was also like, we're just getting fatter and fatter and you're getting more and more red.

• 48:45Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 48:46Tim Ferriss?

  Fuck is going on?

• 48:46Speaker 03

  That was the most confusing part because we were like a weekend of the trip and Glenn and I are just fat as shit from all that, that rice. And you're, you're like six packs are popping out. It was crazy.

• 48:57Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. So I'm taking that stuff again, but not for the fat loss for the, the, the, the potential joint assistance. Wrists are a huge pain in the ass. I, I, I jacked my wrist really badly and I want to get back into handstand practice. So I'm eager to get it figured out.

• 49:17Speaker 03

  All right. Actually, leading, I want to stay on that for one more quick topic. Someone was asking, how is your body these days? You talked about your wrist, but these are three questions real quick. Do you still practice for our body? And what is your approach to longevity? So is there any practices that you're doing now on the longevity side, kind of transitioning out, out of the, I just put, need to put mass on, but more on the, want to live longer.

• 49:41Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. I would say those are probably inversely proportionate.

• 49:44Speaker 03

  Right.

• 49:45Tim Ferriss?

  Right. The more you try to put mass on the, the shorter you're probably making your life, if you're doing it over an extended period of time at least. But I would say body, like I'm not in great shape right now. I've had a bunch of injuries, which just goes to show like it's, I think it's better to have a few extra percentage points of body fat and more strength than to be lean and sacrifice strength. I think right now I've sacrificed strength for a bunch of reasons. I'm in the jungle. I'm eating pretty poorly and not getting much in terms of resistance training in.

• 50:24Tim Ferriss?

  And so, so I would say body overall right now is pretty achy and I'll fix that. I have high degree of confidence that I can fix it. So I'm not worried about it, which leads to the for our body piece. I still follow a surprising amount of what was in the for our body. If anything, the vast majority of the for our body. That was viewed very skeptically, was received very poorly, has accrued an incredible amount of scientific support in the last 10 years because I was published in 2010. So I'm, I am very proud of the four hour body. Like that was kind of the tip of the spear with a bunch of areas that has only received more support in the last

• 51:08Tim Ferriss?

  10 years. So I'm very happy with that. And I would say the general tenets still hold for sure. So from, from the perspective of slow cadence weightlifting à la Occam's protocol, I probably wouldn't be eating the same food because I'm not trying to gain mass, but using that type of slow cadence or super slow protocol to add muscle mass while minimizing injury potential. Absolutely. I'll be doing a bunch of that. And then there's a bunch of stuff from Tools of Titans. So let's not forget that Tools of Titans was basically my update to four hour work week, four hour body and four hour chef simultaneously.

• 51:49Tim Ferriss?

  There's a bunch of stuff in Tools of Titans related to say glute medius training, related to gymnastic strength training and so on, acro yoga that I view as a really important component of what I do these days for physical longevity. Yeah. Meaning like how old you feel, I think is how old your joints feel. Yeah. Very often. And aside from that though, like with the longevity stuff, like, am I using Metformin? No. Am I using Rapamycin? No. Would I consider it? Maybe at some point. Yeah. But the most likely thing to kill me is heart disease. So really, I can focus

• 52:34Tim Ferriss?

  on so-called longevity drugs, but for me personally, those longevity drugs might take the form of something like an azedimib, probably not a statin due to the fact that I am a hyper absorber of cholesterol, not necessarily a hyper producer. So you need to get really deliberate and surgical about how you approach medication. And none of this is medical advice, should not be construed as medical advice, since who the fuck am I? But to talk to your GP, but. I think the obsession, this is gonna upset some people, but the obsession over longevity is often very misplaced. Like I look, I looked at one point at the average lifespans of males

• 53:19Tim Ferriss?

  in my family on both the paternal and maternal lines. And if they didn't die really, really early, which they clearly didn't, because they lasted long enough to procreate, but if they didn't get wiped out by like typhoid fever in, you know, at age 35 or something in the 1800s, pretty much all of them die at 85. They die around 85, fucking everybody. And it doesn't matter if it's, you know, 20 years ago or 300 years.

• 53:49Speaker 03

  Eighty-five's a good run, dude. That's not that bad.

• 53:53Tim Ferriss?

  It's not that bad. So as far as, yeah, so as far as, as the, as, you know, pulling straws, like I didn't get the short straw. I didn't get the short test straw, but it is striving for immortality. I'm glad there are people who are preoccupied by it and are spending time on it. All things equal, which is never the case, by the way, but all things equal, would I prefer to live to 120 versus 85? Yeah, why not? Sure. But am I gonna do caloric restriction every day? So my testosterone falls to the floor and like I lose all my muscle mass and I look like a fucking prisoner of war? No, I'm not gonna do that.

• 54:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:32Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. So I, I don't spend a lot of time thinking about longevity per se, or ultra-long lifespan. I do spend time thinking about what stupid mistakes I can prevent easily, or what medications or supplements or interventions I can implement easily that will prevent me from dying earlier than I should, based on my genetic average.

• 55:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, that's the whole Peter Attia thing, which I think is beautiful. Just really digs into the family history and says, what are the things you're gonna die from? And let's prevent those from happening, you know?

• 55:10Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah, totally. It's like, for the, you know, the focus on the fundamentals, focus on the basics.

• 55:17Speaker 03

  Next question, best movie to watch on mushrooms?

• 55:24Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, that's a good one. I, you know, I, it depends a lot on the dose. It depends a lot on the dose. Like if you're microdosing, you can handle one type of movie. If you're on like three grams of mushrooms.

• 55:35Speaker 03

  Just look at the wall.

• 55:36Tim Ferriss?

  Very, yeah, just fucking chill out and look at a flower because it's gonna, you know, three, three grams is actually navigable for a pretty decent percent of the population, but like five, six grams, just lay down, lay down.

• 55:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:50Tim Ferriss?

  Just lay down and listen to some really cheesy spa music and fucking relax because it's gonna be an interesting six hours. But, but let's just say hypothetically that someone has taken 600 milligrams, three to 600 milligrams of psilocybe mushrooms dried. I would say Spirited Away.

• 56:11Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 56:12Tim Ferriss?

  Arguably my favorite movie of all time. The animated movie Spirited Away will fucking blow your mind. And if, if that isn't interesting, I think soundtrack is important to pay attention to. Do not watch something, even if it's beautiful like Baraka. If it has a weird moody soundtrack, that may not be good for you. So I would say something, my predisposition would be something animated, like Lilo and Stitch or How to Train Your Dragon, you know, something like that. If you try to get too fancy, if you're like, I'm gonna watch a moody, black and white French film,

• 56:56Tim Ferriss?

  you're just asking to get fucking kicked in the nuts.

• 56:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, when I was a kid, it was Pink Floyd, The Wall. That's, but that was just not, that was not mushrooms. That was weed. So I think that'd be a little too intense for, too intense for mushrooms.

• 57:07Tim Ferriss?

  Different.

• 57:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:08Tim Ferriss?

  Different. Yeah. Yeah. My, I would say pay attention to soundtrack. When in doubt, pay attention to soundtrack.

• 57:15Speaker 03

  All right. Uh, next question. What is something you have failed at, but haven't spoken of? People just want to know about your failures, man.

• 57:24Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, they want all the lowlights. Episode number 500, the low light rail. Uh, let's see, something I failed at, but haven't talked about.

• 57:36Speaker 03

  Has there, you know, you did this, you did this series where you went and did a bunch of episodes. You know, you hack things really quickly and you're so good at like consuming books and like getting to the meat of what something is and figuring it out. There has to be something where you were just like, I want to figure this out. And you just fucking suck at it, right? Like the-

• 57:51Tim Ferriss?

  Well, I mean, honestly, episode one of the Tim Ferriss experiment, when I did parkour, which was my insistence, I was like, we're going to do parkour first, episode one. And I fucked myself up so badly. I mean, I had so many injuries, like elbow, wrist, knee. I tore three of my four quadriceps, these are your thigh muscles, front of like quadriceps, four, right? I tore severely tore three of them from impact, from jumping off of stuff. It was a fucking disaster, like an unmitigated disaster. And I don't think I talked, I've talked about that much.

• 58:32Tim Ferriss?

  And so I insisted with, in retrospect, the most idiotic reasoning ever, that we would do parkour first. And what that meant was we had 13 episodes to film. We were filming every fucking week without a vacation for 13 weeks straight. And the first week I basically became a cripple. Like I fucking ruined myself. It was so bad. And so, you know, for weeks afterwards, I'm wearing like medical grade compression pants, which take like an hour to get on. It's like, if you imagine you're a three, I'm not a 300 pound guy, but just imagine you're like a 300 pound guy

• 59:11Tim Ferriss?

  and you have like elastic Gap kids, fucking long underwear that you have to get on. It takes forever. Like it takes so long. And there were points, I've definitely not talked about this, where I was so fucked up after that parkour episode. And I'd be wearing these like compression pants just to function to like hobble around like a pirate for, you know, whatever I was filming, episode two, three, four. And I would get so tired and they took like 45 minutes to get off. Maybe an exaggeration, but they took fucking forever to get off. It'd be like an extra small wet suit that you have to get off your legs. And I would be so tired that I'd be like, I'd get it down to like my mid calf and I'd be like,

• 59:53Tim Ferriss?

  fuck it. And I would just lay down on the bed like with, with these, with these compression pants around my, around my ankles or my, my shins, unable to get them off. And I would just sleep. I would just sleep with these things around my ankles. So that's one that comes to mind.

• 1:00:11Speaker 03

  That's a good one.

• 1:00:11Tim Ferriss?

  There are many. Yeah, there are many. There are many, but that's, that's a colorful one.

• 1:00:15Speaker 03

  It's amazing. Uh, what, okay. When it happens, what type of dad do you want to be?

• 1:00:22Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, that's a big one. When it happens, what kind of dad do I want to be?

• 1:00:33Speaker 03

  You gotta leave the space gap in here when we had the episode.

• 1:00:36Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:37Speaker 03

  It's good. He's thinking, he's thinking, everybody, I'm watching.

• 1:00:39Tim Ferriss?

  Ah.

• 1:00:43Tim Ferriss?

  It's like watching a dog trying to figure out a maze. Uh, I, I, you know, I, I think that the first, I'll go with the first two that come to mind. I just want to be really present and really engaged. And, and loving, obviously, but I, I just want to really fucking pay attention and be engaged. Because I know so many guys, including good friends of mine, who are just like, yeah, man, I'm fucking missed it. Like they grew up so quickly and like, you missed two years. It's like missing 20 years. So I want to be really present and really engaged.

• 1:01:26Tim Ferriss?

  And I, I think it's, yeah, if I pay attention to that, I feel like all the tactical. Sleep training versus the attachment versus whatever like I can figure that all out, but if you don't have the prerequisite attention and awareness and engagement, then none of that, all that stuff is window dressing, I feel like.

• 1:01:48Speaker 03

  When I think about being a father, I think about some of the attributes that my own dad had that were amazing. And I would certainly want to continue those on and then other little tweaks I want to do because you know, that's what we're doing. We're kind of pushing things forward. What attributes would you say you did you really enjoy from your father? And there are any little tweaks that you would make?

• 1:02:10Tim Ferriss?

  You know, I think my parents did a great job considering the circumstances that we found ourselves in, right? I mean, I think a lot like you, we didn't have very much money. You know, there was not budget for new bikes and stuff like that. We made everything go a long way. Lots of TV dinners.

• 1:02:31Speaker 03

  Lots of TV dinners. I was there too.

• 1:02:33Tim Ferriss?

  Yep. Yeah, man. Yeah. God. There was, there was, there was the good, the bad and the ugly with the TV dinners. Like those shitty brownies were so delicious. The shitty, shitty like brownies in the middle square at the top. Those are so good. And the fried chicken was good, but some of the, some of the TV dinners not so great.

• 1:02:52Speaker 03

  We did a lot of Dinty Moore beef stew in my house. That was good. I love that Dinty Moore.

• 1:02:57Tim Ferriss?

  You know, and, and there were all these special moments, like some of the celebratory, like if something big happened, then we had a celebratory dinner. We go to Red Lobster. I remember Red Lobster. We'd have, we'd have virgin daiquiris and immediately get brain freeze and then eat those fried mozzarella sticks. And they were so fucking good. So, you know, like, I feel like my parents did a really good job on a lot of levels. I will have the benefit of more time. Right? So.

• 1:03:32Tim Ferriss?

  If I, if I in any way say, I don't have time, or I feel like I don't have time, I just want to plant the seed now that that is utter horseshit. Right? Like, we make time for the things that matter. And I'm in a much better position than my parents were financially.

• 1:03:54Speaker 03

  Did your dad work a lot? Did he travel a lot or work a lot? Or what was it like?

• 1:03:57Tim Ferriss?

  He didn't travel a lot. You know, my, my, my mom and dad worked a lot. And I'm good at working, right? Like, you and I are both good at playing certain games. And it's very challenging, for me at least, to sit on the sidelines or switch games when you've spent so much time getting good at certain games. Yeah, that's part of the reason I'm in the middle of nowhere right now, is to just create a little bit of space and, and prevent myself from over committing to a bunch of new projects just because I have a void or a vacuum.

• 1:04:36Tim Ferriss?

  And I'm excited about the, you know, fatherhood, about being a parent.

• 1:04:44Speaker 03

  I'm, I'm excited for you. I think it's gonna, it's gonna be a fun, fun chapter.

• 1:04:49Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, long chapter, long chapter.

• 1:04:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:51Tim Ferriss?

  The longest chapter.

• 1:04:53Speaker 03

  Especially at our age, man. I just think, the thing I think about is just like, when our kids are 21, we're gonna be so old. It's like, gonna be crazy.

• 1:04:59Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, we're gonna be, we're gonna be really old. You and I can go to the park with walkers together.

• 1:05:03Speaker 03

  Exactly. All right. Next question from, this is, I had to say the name because this is a tweet from Hun's Conduit. So some guy's using his business account to tweet at us. This guy runs conduit, which is great. Tim famously asks his guests about a message they would hypothetically plaster on a billboard. Will you ask him about his current message? What would your current billboard message be?

• 1:05:26Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I don't, my message is still the same. Yeah, it hasn't changed much. And that is, and I've borrowed this from other people, but you are the average of the five people you associate with most.

• 1:05:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's a great one.

• 1:05:39Tim Ferriss?

  Right? Like, like wherever you spend a lot of time with, like, you are going to absorb. And vice versa, right? They're gonna absorb you. So. Really be aware of that, like physically, emotionally, psychologically, financially.

• 1:05:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:56Tim Ferriss?

  It's so true. I've just seen it confirmed over and over and over and over again for me and for other people.

• 1:06:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's a great one. I don't think you can get better than that one. That's great. Next question from Ryan, hair transplant, question mark. Would you do a hair transplant?

• 1:06:13Tim Ferriss?

  No, not at this point.

• 1:06:15Speaker 03

  The technology has come a long way. Do not knock that right away because there are, there's, it looks really good. I have a couple of friends that have done it. They're not going to be named here, but it can, it can look amazing.

• 1:06:25Tim Ferriss?

  Look, I mean, here's my perspective. There is one reason for me to get hair transplant.

• 1:06:34Speaker 03

  By the way, if this is financial, I will pay for your hair transplant. I'm going to say that right now. I'm serious. I'm serious. I will pay for it right now. Go on the record.

• 1:06:42Tim Ferriss?

  Do I need kev kev, like etched in the side like Kid and Play style?

• 1:06:46Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:06:46Tim Ferriss?

  No. I, number one, I'm very fortunate to have a reasonably regular dome. So I don't have a whole lot of moguls on my skull and I don't mind being bald. I really don't mind it. And I think I led into it easily by starting to shave my head when I was like 12, 13 and wrestling. So I'm accustomed to it. The second thing is I would get so much shit from people forever. If I had some weave, like I don't know if you've ever seen Hellboy, but there's

• 1:07:28Tim Ferriss?

  that one guy who has hair implants and it just looks like Ken doll. I would get so much more shit.

• 1:07:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's too late.

• 1:07:36Tim Ferriss?

  That I currently do. I would be disinclined. And then, you know, third, and I think I was saying this earlier and I cut myself off. It's like, why do guys care? I think 99 times out of 100, it's because they want to have, they want to be more attractive to women or get laid more often by having hair, like period, full stop. I don't care. I don't care about that. Right? Like I'm, I'm very, very happy with my girlfriend. We're planning on having a family together and like if, if I couldn't be with someone because I didn't have hair, I don't want to be with them in the first place. Like that's your, that's, that's a, that's a very charitable,

• 1:08:21Tim Ferriss?

  easy layup, yellow or red flag for any guy.

• 1:08:26Speaker 03

  No, by the way, also that's, you did the right thing. Like the, the wrong thing is leaving like the sides on and just kind of going with the bald top.

• 1:08:34Tim Ferriss?

  Like the power donut. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I'm not, look, there are a few people who can pull that off. Like if you're, uh, what's his name? Commander Picard or whatever, Star Trek. Like if, if you're somebody that badass, you can pull off the power donut. If you're like a hedge fund manager who just, just gives zero fucks. And as a master of the universe, and you're just like, look, I can, I can move global markets and decimate currencies with one twitch of my pinky finger. Great. Then like, keep the power donut. I do not have the confidence or the wherewithal or the skillset or the power to make that work for me. So.

• 1:09:11Speaker 03

  Well, it looks great. It's nice and shiny right now. The light's hitting in the right direction. It's beautiful.

• 1:09:16Tim Ferriss?

  Has a healthy sheen to it, like a, like a dog coat.

• 1:09:20Speaker 03

  All right. Uh, moving on to the next question, your favorite episode and why? And I will say that with the caveat that we, we, you know, you can mention the one that you talked about that was really dear to you that you did a few episodes back. But I think outside of that particular episode about the, they're around the abuse.

• 1:09:38Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. I mean, favorite episode is, is I get this question quite a bit. It's, it's hard to give a favorite episode because almost all of my episodes have some personal driver behind them. So the reason I do episodes vary so widely that there is objectively no one best, even subjectively, there is no one best. It has everything to do with what my goals or challenges might be at any given point in time. Uh, I think.

• 1:10:09Speaker 03

  Let me ask you two questions. Hold on. Let me ask you two questions. We can hone this in a little bit. Favorite fanboy episode, meaning I, oh my God, I can't believe I had this person in my podcast. And then I'd also love to know, I know who it is. It's Hugh Jackman, isn't it? Am I right?

• 1:10:24Tim Ferriss?

  Hugh Jackman is super high up. That, that was definitely a huge one. Arnold Schwarzenegger was the first like gigantic fanboy.

• 1:10:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:35Tim Ferriss?

  Episode. Jamie Foxx, another one. I mean, those three episodes are also killer. Like they weren't just fanboy encounters, but they were really strong episodes.

• 1:10:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:47Tim Ferriss?

  Really, really strong episodes. So fanboy moments, there are a ton of them. I mean, I've spoken with so many people. I never thought I would ever have any interaction with Jerry Seinfeld. I mean, it's a long list. It's a long, long list, but certainly Hugh Jackman is way up there. Arnold Schwarzenegger, way up there. Jamie Foxx and Jerry and so many others. Those are a few.

• 1:11:14Speaker 03

  How about someone that just really surprised you where you're like, oh, I should have this person on. Then you had him on, you're like, God damn, that was a good episode.

• 1:11:21Tim Ferriss?

  There are so many.

• 1:11:22Speaker 03

  Give me a couple though. It doesn't have to be one.

• 1:11:24Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I love, I love the fanboy episodes, but those, those are names that people automatically know. I mean, they're household names, right? BJ Miller, who's a hospice care physician. And I think the episode, it was titled something like BJ Miller, the man who's helped a thousand plus people to die, something like that. That episode had a huge impact on me. Still does. Then you have people like Mary Karr, who's an author and very well-known memoir writer and teacher, who's just incredible. That episode is pretty recent. Carr, K A R R. She was incredible.

• 1:12:04Tim Ferriss?

  Let's see here. Honestly, I mean, I have to mention again, but just like there are certain episodes like Jamie Foxx or Hugh Jackman where you're like, holy shit. I hope my equipment is working.

• 1:12:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:12:16Tim Ferriss?

  It's just so fucking good. And you're like, oh my God, if this fails, I will just have to throw myself out a window.

• 1:12:22Speaker 03

  I mean, when I interviewed Elon Musk, uh, my show, I was like, please do not fail hard drive. Like, you know, because we're like, we're

• 1:12:29Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. Totally.

• 1:12:31Speaker 03

  It's crazy.

• 1:12:32Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. There's so there are the, there are those moments for sure. What was it like for you to, to interview Elon? Tell, I've never, I've, we've never talked about it.

• 1:12:40Speaker 03

  I mean, he's, he's a really cool guy. He was super friendly and I've met him a couple of times at various parties and stuff. And he's always been really nice to me. I think he knew me from back in the dig days when I created dig or, you know, he was, it wasn't, it was clear to me that it wasn't just some, like he had heard of some stuff I had created, which was nice because that gives you a little bit of an in and a way to have a conversation. I loved it. I thought it was a lot of fun. I mean, I, I tried to ask him some questions that were just a little bit like, not the ones a standard reporter would ask. And so, he had a good time with it. We talked

• 1:13:10Tim Ferriss?

  Like what?

• 1:13:11Speaker 03

  We just talked about like, I always like to go really, really back to his childhood and like some of the entrepreneurial kind of moments he had growing up and some of the things he was a fan of and some of the comic books where he was into, like, nobody talks about that, you know, but he talks about his favorite comic books on my, my show, like stuff like that. So it was, yeah, it was a, it was a really, we talked about SpaceX and some of the stuff that he was doing with, with Hyperloop before it was announced. Yeah, it was, it was awesome.

• 1:13:36Tim Ferriss?

  Nice.

• 1:13:37Speaker 03

  Obviously he's quite the icon these days. This was a couple of years ago. So.

• 1:13:41Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Tony Stark.

• 1:13:43Speaker 03

  Totally. In the flesh. Um, all right. Moving on to the next epis, or next episode, the next question. What do you think about all the recent government UFO footage? Is it real?

• 1:13:55Tim Ferriss?

  Well.

• 1:13:57Speaker 03

  Do you believe in UFOs?

• 1:13:58Tim Ferriss?

  I, I don't know if it's real. Uh, in the sense, do I know, I don't know if the footage is real. I've read way too much about.

• 1:14:08Tim Ferriss?

  You know, well documented programs like MKUltra with the CIA. And so, I mean, the it's, it's very hard to know what is propaganda and what is not.

• 1:14:19Speaker 03

  What is the MKUltra? What is that?

• 1:14:21Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, this is, this is sort of the deliberate and non-consensual administration of LSD by the CIA as a possible truth serum or destabilizing agent and all sorts of craziness. And you have also looked very closely at the Stargate program, which was utilizing remote viewers or those considered to be remote viewers, remote perception and all this craziness. So like, are UFOs real? Fuck, I don't know. I will say this. That's a big question, above my pay grade. I will say

• 1:15:02Tim Ferriss?

  this, though, that there are a few places on Long Island that are fairly well known by locals for having what some people consider UFO sightings. And when I was a kid on Long Island, I and a whole car full of people, including like a babysitter and some other people, all saw some weird object like fly across the sky, hover for a period of time, kind of bounce around, and then shoot off at speeds that made no sense. So was that an illusion? Was it caused by some

• 1:15:41Tim Ferriss?

  type of weather pattern, right? Like the lights of Marfa in Texas are supposedly created by some type of phenomenon that can be explained meteorologically? Was it that? Was it test flights with some type of aircraft being performed by the government, which are unknown, unannounced? Was it some type of aircraft from elsewhere? I mean, either way, it is an unidentified flying object. So do I believe in UFOs? Yeah, I believe in UFOs. Are they aliens? F off. Fucked if I know. Like, I have no idea. But I mean, I remain open to the possibility.

• 1:16:29Speaker 03

  All right, let's move on to the next question. This one is a little bit, this one's a little bit harder than last. Have you ever tried Viagra? If so, thoughts?

• 1:16:42Speaker 03

  I told you, I told you these were gonna get intimate here.

• 1:16:45Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, this is great. Yeah, this is great. So I have tried Viagra. I've tried everything. I mean, I've tried just about everything minus heroin. And I actually had a really scary response to a small amount of Viagra, which was I got a shooting pain, like a ax pic in the brain pain from taking it, which has made me contraindicated from taking. I don't know if Viagra is a, what is it, a phosphodiesterase inhibitor of some type, but I have to be very careful with that stuff because in a small percentage of the population, you can have these massively powerful adverse events.

• 1:17:30Speaker 03

  Does that apply to all, like Cialis and stuff like that? Or is that just Viagra?

• 1:17:34Tim Ferriss?

  I don't, I don't know. I'm not, I'm not sure.

• 1:17:36Speaker 03

  Did it, did it work?

• 1:17:37Tim Ferriss?

  The fact of the matter is, oh, the Viagra, I mean, I, well, yeah, I mean, not to get too graphic here, but yeah, it was fucking fantastic. I mean, that stuff, why the hell do you think it's so popular? Like, yeah, it works as advertised. It's like, why do athletes use anabolic steroids? Because they fucking work, right? I mean, like, there are certain drugs that really deliver as advertised. You just have to be aware of the possible side effects.

• 1:18:01Speaker 03

  I had a really weird experience with that stuff. That stuff is strange.

• 1:18:06Tim Ferriss?

  Well, hold on, you can't let that hang. So what?

• 1:18:08Speaker 03

  Well, I just feel like it's, well, I'm, we're a couple glasses of wine in, trying to ride that fine line. So I'm gonna say this in a very PC way, the best I can at this moment in time.

• 1:18:19Tim Ferriss?

  Don't say it in a PC way. That's so lame.

• 1:18:21Speaker 03

  Okay, so. When you take it, you know, 30 minutes later, it kicks in and you can tell by like, you feel like a flushness in your face. Did you get that? That kind of like, like tingly flushness in your face?

• 1:18:31Tim Ferriss?

  I got a flushness in my, in my schwanz. I don't know.

• 1:18:34Speaker 03

  So what happens next is things elevate and, and when they do so, it's like at the, um, it's like blowing a balloon to like 12 when it should be at a 10 and you reach down. No, no, when you reach down, it feels like it's another dude's thing. Cause it's like, it's way bigger than you, you're used to, right? Cause it's, you're at a 12, the knob has gone to a 12. So it's, it's just confusing. That's all. But it does, it does make, it does make you like a, you're a dragon slayer for a couple of hours at least. Like it's, there's no,

• 1:19:13Speaker 03

  you'd agree with that though, right?

• 1:19:15Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I would. I think dragon slaying on Viagra is definitely going to have to make it into the headline of this episode.

• 1:19:23Speaker 03

  It is, it is a weird thing. It is definitely a weird thing. I bought mine in Mexico of all places. This is like,

• 1:19:29Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, you gotta be careful.

• 1:19:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, you gotta be careful. Who knows? Like if it was like an amplified dose or something, but yeah, uh, kind of insane.

• 1:19:36Tim Ferriss?

  Could have been Clorox.

• 1:19:37Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:19:40Speaker 03

  All right. Uh, any other four hour books in the future?

• 1:19:44Tim Ferriss?

  None planned.

• 1:19:46Speaker 03

  Are you done? Are you, you're done with the four hour?

• 1:19:50Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I think so.

• 1:19:51Speaker 03

  That's fair. That's fair. Rest in peace, four hour. The four hour thing was, it was fun for me. Remember I used to, I used to send you, I sent you texts of like the four, there was a four hour laundry, laundry cleaner in SF and I would always, I'd like walk by and take photos.

• 1:20:07Tim Ferriss?

  Four hour laundry.

• 1:20:08Speaker 03

  Take photos of it and send it to Tim. So good.

• 1:20:10Tim Ferriss?

  That was on Van Ness or something. I remember that. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. No, I have, thank you for your service, four hour. I think, uh, I am, I'm done. It's retired as a jersey, framed a wall.

• 1:20:23Speaker 03

  Nice.

• 1:20:23Tim Ferriss?

  What a beautiful chapter. And it was a chapter.

• 1:20:26Speaker 03

  That was a good chapter. Good couple of chapters.

• 1:20:28Tim Ferriss?

  It was.

• 1:20:29Speaker 03

  All right. So what will you be doing at age 50 and 60?

• 1:20:34Speaker 03

  That was the actual question.

• 1:20:36Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:37Speaker 03

  So just retirement. I don't know why they picked those years, but like, let's just say later in life, like, give me, what does Tim Tim look like 20, 30 years from now?

• 1:20:45Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, you know, retirement, I don't think that's a thing.

• 1:20:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:49Tim Ferriss?

  I just, I sort of enjoy getting amongst it too much. I can't imagine like, just like sitting around doing Sudoku all day, watching Wheel of Fortune or something like, I just, I don't think that's gonna be me. So 50 or 60, I mean, let's see, I'm, this means, it's not that far off. 50, you know, I'm 43. How old are you right now?

• 1:21:12Speaker 03

  43.

• 1:21:14Tim Ferriss?

  Fucking A, man.

• 1:21:15Speaker 03

  44 this month.

• 1:21:16Tim Ferriss?

  Seven years away.

• 1:21:17Speaker 03

  I know, it's crazy.

• 1:21:18Tim Ferriss?

  One turning of the locusts and we're 50. So 50, I mean, let's just say I have like, you know, a six or seven year old kid at that point, I will probably be increasingly cantankerous and salty. I will be increasingly uninterested in social consensus or social media or...

• 1:21:46Speaker 03

  I mean, I feel like that's you today.

• 1:21:47Tim Ferriss?

  Popularity. Yeah. So, yeah, I think it'll just be like Tim plus. It'll be like Tim Tim plus.

• 1:21:53Speaker 03

  Love it.

• 1:21:54Tim Ferriss?

  I think there's, I think there's a good chance that I will be spending more months of the year with the family in and surrounded by nature, less time in urban environments. From an athletic perspective, I would, I would anticipate to still be doing things like acro yoga, skiing, probably weight training at least once per week. I think that'll become more and more and more important. Still, I will be paying deep attention to and supporting psychedelic research and other aspects of that type of medicine work. It's hard for me to envision like a huge change aside from focus on family, which I think will be a

• 1:22:39Tim Ferriss?

  gigantic shift, but I would hope not to have to contend with any major medical emergencies or crises in my family. But TBD, I mean, 60, if I'm 60.

• 1:22:55Tim Ferriss?

  You know, that could be at the point where my parents, one or both passed, which will be a huge transition. I don't know how that'll affect me. It's impossible to predict for me. I just, I just don't know. I don't even have a point of reference.

• 1:23:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:23:09Tim Ferriss?

  You know?

• 1:23:10Speaker 03

  Let's move on to the next question. We've got a couple more left and then we can wrap things up. And I do have some extra bonus ones if you want to keep going, but.

• 1:23:18Tim Ferriss?

  Bonus.

• 1:23:19Speaker 03

  Bonus.

• 1:23:19Tim Ferriss?

  Do it. I'm all for bonus.

• 1:23:20Speaker 03

  The last soccer or a quick soccer one.

• 1:23:24Speaker 03

  What, what's your quote unquote, holy shit, today sucked, drink or drug of choice?

• 1:23:32Speaker 03

  Some soccer.

• 1:23:36Tim Ferriss?

  That's a great one.

• 1:23:41Tim Ferriss?

  Well, it depends on at what time of the day I determine that the day has already sucked.

• 1:23:46Speaker 03

  6pm.

• 1:23:47Tim Ferriss?

  First, if it's, well, hold on. So if, if it, if I wake up and I'm just getting fucking haymakers for like the first two hours of the day and I'm like, wow, like today is already sucking donkey dick. This is terrible. Then we, I might just fucking call it and have a day of mushrooms and walk through the forest and just think, I'm done. Tap. I am complete. So that, that's one. I would say otherwise, the one that is ill advised for me is drinking copious amounts of caffeine, right? Having just like four or five, six cups of coffee, which like on the way up, on the way up feels so good and you get so manic and like you forget all your worries.

• 1:24:32Tim Ferriss?

  And then the coin flips and you just feel like an anxious mess on the way down. So that's, that's a mixed blessing for sure. I would say gin and soda, like a Hendrix and soda or a Casa Dragones, like a tequila and soda at like dusk. So these days, like a 5:30 kind of happy hour, like, you know what? I'm not going to try to like squeak this out and grind for another hour, hour and a half. Like, nope, gonna call this one at 4:30, 5:00. If it's really brutal, if you're just like, why?

• 1:25:15Tim Ferriss?

  Like, if I, if, if I'm still in the game, I'm just like limping along with the ball, getting crushed by like 500 pound linebackers.

• 1:25:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:25:23Tim Ferriss?

  What am I doing this for? This is pointless. Then I'd say gin and soda or tequila and soda.

• 1:25:28Speaker 03

  What was the gin that you gifted me? The Botanist? I think you were giving those out one year for Run the Holidays. Was it Botanist? You were.

• 1:25:34Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, it could, it could have been Botanist.

• 1:25:37Speaker 03

  You were into one gin.

• 1:25:38Tim Ferriss?

  I love.

• 1:25:38Speaker 03

  Gin's the best.

• 1:25:39Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:40Speaker 03

  It's so much more, it's so much more interesting than vodka, right? Like it's the botanicals in there and it's, it's a fantastic beverage.

• 1:25:47Tim Ferriss?

  I love, I love clean tequila. I love interesting gin. And there's something called Sotol, S-O-T-O-L, which is found in Texas, which is also quite interesting. It's, it's for people who need a, maybe a comparison. It might be somewhere between tequila and mezcal.

• 1:26:13Speaker 03

  Ooh, so a little bit more smoky then.

• 1:26:16Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:17Speaker 03

  But not as hardcore.

• 1:26:17Tim Ferriss?

  There's a company called, I bought, yeah, there's exactly, there's something called, there's a brand, I think called Desert Door, which makes some really nice Sotol. It's pretty hard to get.

• 1:26:27Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:26:27Tim Ferriss?

  Uh, I also find that quite interesting, but if you drink enough of that to get plastered, you are going to feel it for sure the next day.

• 1:26:36Speaker 03

  Yeah. Oh, bad like hangover type stuff going on?

• 1:26:40Tim Ferriss?

  Yes, it's, it's got that smoky, it's got that smoky element, right? Same with mezcal.

• 1:26:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:44Tim Ferriss?

  I'll, I mean, I feel like a donkey's kicked me in the forehead.

• 1:26:47Speaker 03

  Like ashtray mouth the next morning. Like you're just like, oh, like.

• 1:26:50Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Yeah, like, oh, who had a campfire in my mouth?

• 1:26:53Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:26:54Tim Ferriss?

  That one.

• 1:26:54Speaker 03

  So you, you mentioned Dragonas. I think it's, it's important not to skip over that one. Fantastic tequila.

• 1:27:00Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, and also fantastically expensive tequila. They actually make a less expensive version now, a couple of them. Which, yeah, nice, okay. Yeah, Casa Dragones, the House of the Dragon, makes some really nice stuff. And I was introduced to that, pretty funny story. So I was first exposed to that. Am I making you seasick with this camera? This camera keeps. I think I'm like, I'm going out of focus. I know. It's like zooming in and out. I'm like, if I drank that much, like you just keep going.

• 1:27:34Tim Ferriss?

  Right, it's like the cinematographer imitation of being drunk. My God, it's making me seasick, just looking at my own, my own image going in and out of focus. But in any case, Casa Dragones, I was first exposed to when I spent time with a friend of mine, who's a former Navy SEAL, and he and a bunch of guys were doing weapons training and shooting range practice with, you know, all sorts, like AR platform, handgun, you know, sidearm, you name it, like all sorts of stuff. And their ritual was to then go back to the house, disassemble all the guns and clean all the guns while they're all sipping Casa Dragones. Oh, my God. Well, you mean disassemble like, like all the way down to bare metal?

• 1:28:19Tim Ferriss?

  Or like, what are you talking about? Just, just clean them? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cleaning them, but in some cases, you know, disassembling the handguns and so on. And they're doing this very safely, but we were just like sitting around with a bunch of like hyper masculine dudes who are like real professionals. I don't know what I'm doing, but like cleaning guns, drinking, sipping tequila, right? Like no mixes, no cocktails, just drinking, sipping tequila. And like, it was amazing. It was a great experience and a really great group of guys. And I had that, and I had always had the association with tequila that it gave you a nasty hangover. And I drank so much of this tequila, woke up the next day and I felt like a million bucks.

• 1:29:03Tim Ferriss?

  I was like, how is that even possible? So. Did you read about it? Do you know what the deal is? It's been filtered 12 times, the Dragones.

• 1:29:12Tim Ferriss?

  Well, there you go.

• 1:29:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like, no, it's like a super ultra filtered. It's like the cleanest of the clean. Like it's, it, that's why it's so expensive. It's fantastic.

• 1:29:20Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. So if you feel like getting a, getting a nice gift for somebody or for yourself.

• 1:29:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:25Tim Ferriss?

  That's one option.

• 1:29:26Speaker 03

  All right, two more questions. Does anything make you feel old or does anything make you feel young?

• 1:29:33Tim Ferriss?

  What makes me feel old would be aching joints.

• 1:29:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:37Tim Ferriss?

  So elbow that I've had elbow surgery on, the wrist that I've jacked up. I injured my lower back recently in a stupid accident. Joint pain.

• 1:29:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:47Tim Ferriss?

  Makes me feel old.

• 1:29:48Speaker 03

  Same dude. Sucks.

• 1:29:50Tim Ferriss?

  For sure. Like muscular pain I can deal with, but like joint pain makes me feel old. Makes me feel young, riding bicycles and riding my girlfriend. Those two.

• 1:30:01Speaker 03

  Jesus.

• 1:30:06Speaker 03

  This question is not going to make it in.

• 1:30:10Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, it'll make it. It'll make it. Oh, it was great.

• 1:30:12Speaker 03

  We'll see.

• 1:30:13Tim Ferriss?

  Those two, those two things keep me young.

• 1:30:17Speaker 03

  All right.

• 1:30:21Speaker 03

  This is the, this is the last question. And it's, it's more serious when I wanted to end with this one. Cause I do want you to take it seriously. You know, we don't know how much time we have left and I am curious, when you die, what do you ultimately want to be remembered for?

• 1:30:41Speaker 03

  For our chauffeur.

• 1:30:47Tim Ferriss?

  The stupid meme videos that I text Kevin twice a week.

• 1:30:54Tim Ferriss?

  Let me think about that. You know, I don't think any of us are remembered for that long. I, I think that kind of over focusing on legacy can.

• 1:31:06Tim Ferriss?

  Warp and contort a lot of thinking about

• 1:31:12Tim Ferriss?

  life and what you pursue, right? I think it can lead you to pursue things for prestige. And I think prestige, approval, guilt, shame are all really bad reasons for doing things oftentimes. And, you know, as we were talking earlier about parenting and what kind of father I want to be, and I was talking about awareness and engagement being these prerequisites for other things. You can try the tactical stuff, but if you lack that base level, that foundation,

• 1:31:51Tim Ferriss?

  the rest of it doesn't really matter. I think that in the last 10 years especially, five years especially, last five months in particular, I've realized that without hope, the rest of it just doesn't really matter. Right? So like you can give someone the prescription, the how to, you should do this, you should do that. But without some level of hope and, and hope to me is slightly, has a slightly different feeling to it than optimism. I think optimism can be a part of hope, but that hope is broader. Without, without some element of hope, a lot of that other stuff just doesn't matter and get, gets washed away.

• 1:32:31Tim Ferriss?

  So I would like to be, you know, I used to say, when people would ask me like, what would you want to be remembered for? Like, what on your gravestone? I was like, well, as a, as a sort of creator of master students who are better than himself, right? That was an answer that I had. And I think now it would be as a purveyor and provider of hope, like someone who's providing hope to people who feel hopeless and not in a misleading, not in a Pollyanna-ish, not in a naive way, like I'm providing hope because I am.

• 1:33:07Tim Ferriss?

  A test subject, right? Like I'm a guinea pig. I am someone who's suffered from severe extended, repeated bouts of depression, who is on the front lines trying to encourage the testing and research of things like psilocybin and others that show incredible promise for these so-called intractable, untreatable psychiatric conditions, whether that's depression, or MDMA assisted psychotherapy for complex treatment-resistant PTSD, right? Post-traumatic stress disorder, or opioid use disorder, anorexia, these things that have really found no home from which they can be treated effectively. That would be one example,

• 1:33:51Tim Ferriss?

  you know, one dimension to it. So I would say as a seeker, as a fellow kneader, and hopefully spreader of hope. Well, that's what I would want.

• 1:34:05Speaker 03

  I gotta tell you, I think that a lot of people would agree with this statement in that everything that you've done, I mean, when I first met you was at your book launch party for the four hour work week, and then later the four hour body, like that, those have all been about hope. They've been about how can I improve myself, you know, and how can I live and do things on my own time and by my own design? And you'd live a healthier lifestyle, and then now taking it to the more philanthropic side of things and working on mental health, like, this is an easy thing for you to accomplish because like you've already done it. Like your career has been all about hope. So I think you inspire a lot of people and for that reason.

• 1:34:49Speaker 03

  So this is, that's great. It's a

• 1:34:52Tim Ferriss?

  Thanks, Ben.

• 1:34:53Speaker 03

  No, it's something to look up to. Like I know you and I talk about this and we have a slightly different take on philanthropy in that, you know, I've done bits and pieces of it. My take, and it could be the wrong one, but I'm in like the prime of my earning career. And I think that I want to like get a little bit more resources so that I can do bigger impact things long-term. But like you're definitely an inspiration for me on that front. And certainly something that I want to eventually imitate and figure out how to do is have a bigger impact in that way. So thank you for all that you've done on that. And dude, it's been awesome that you'd even share the space with me for episode 500. So thank you for that as well.

• 1:35:33Tim Ferriss?

  Thanks, Kev Kev. You know, I want to give some additional thanks to my girlfriend so that I don't have my last mention of her in the same answer at the bicycle.

• 1:35:47Tim Ferriss?

  Which is, you know, when I was considering what to do about sharing my experiences with abuse as a kid, I told her about the plans for the book, the possible book, which would be years off in the future, and the possibility of then doing a podcast, maybe as a stopgap measure, or even a replacement for doing the book, because it would be sooner. And she just made the point that if you looked at the discrepancy between those two, let's say a podcast coming out in a few months and a book coming out four or five years

• 1:36:29Tim Ferriss?

  later, that there would be, and there are many people who would die by natural causes, take their own lives via suicide, or otherwise not ever have access to the book, who would benefit from the podcast. And I think that there's compounding of wealth and resources. And you can make many compelling arguments for if and when to jump into the fray to try to address problems based on compound interest and so on. I would just offer to people who are thinking about this for themselves that there are certain problems that compound

• 1:37:13Tim Ferriss?

  also. And there are certain problems, certain subsets of populations and so on, who are more easily reached, more easily addressed, more easily helped now than they will be in a year or two years, because the problems compound at a faster rate than your capital. So, you know, that's one perspective that I would offer, not to say that everybody should immediately jump into the fray and use as much as they can afford. To affect change in the world, I don't think that's true for everyone. I think that's absolutely not the case for everyone.

• 1:37:52Tim Ferriss?

  But for me, at least with some of these mental health conditions and having the ability to set precedent, right, to create the first center in the world dedicated to psychedelic research, to create the first center in the US dedicated to psychedelic research and consciousness research, offered me a rare window and opportunity to tip the first domino in a way that I knew would then trigger and unlock all sorts of other developments, right? So I was able to put in, say, a million dollars with the expectation that it would generate 10 or 100 million dollars in impact. So I do think that you gotta pick your time, you gotta pick your target.

• 1:38:38Tim Ferriss?

  You really want to be surgical with this stuff and very thoughtful. And there are sometimes, just like with startups, right? There are sometimes when you're like, oh damn, there's that one window.

• 1:38:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:50Tim Ferriss?

  That door opens a crack and that's your shot.

• 1:38:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:54Tim Ferriss?

  Like you have a real opportunity to make an impact. And for me, I just felt that way in the last few years.

• 1:39:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:39:02Tim Ferriss?

  But I'm excited to, I'm excited to see what you do too, man.

• 1:39:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, it makes, it makes a lot of sense if you think about it because there was this little tipping point that happened where all of a sudden there was a window to create some research around psychedelic use, you know, that, because if the government had totally locked this thing down, like let's say we were in some country that was just clamped down on both the federal and state level, it would be probably like pissing away money at that point, right? Because they wouldn't, you wouldn't even be able to fund research. But you, you found a window, the momentum was going in the right direction. And now, you know, we're seeing benefits from that in terms of it being legalized, like in Oregon and other places where this could be real therapies going in, into people in the next year or so, you know, which is really cool.

• 1:39:43Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's moved a lot faster than I ever could have hoped. And there's, there are going to be challenges, there are going to be setbacks, there are going to be messes, there are going to be. Players in the arena with less than pure motives, which is to be expected. And that's all, that's all part of the game. So.

• 1:40:04Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, the last, the last thing I want to say is, and I'd be curious to know how you were able to do this in yourself is that one of the things that I, I want to push more forward, especially given that I have a couple of daughters. And I think that more men should be vulnerable people, like able to talk about, like you've talked about suicide and depression and child abuse. And like all these really tough, sensitive topics. And, you know, I've certainly talked about couples therapy and the abuse my father gave my mom and things like that. Like, we need to encourage more of that. And I just want to say, thanks to you, you've helped me be more open with myself and my audience about those things. And I think it's that, like, starting that conversation, oh, if Tim can talk about it, I can too.

• 1:40:49Speaker 03

  It's such an important thing that we all need to do.

• 1:40:52Tim Ferriss?

  Thanks, Kevin. Thanks, man.

• 1:40:54Speaker 03

  It's the truth though, dude. Like, it really is. Like, it helps me when you talk about this stuff, I can talk about it. Like, and I know that's the same with so many other people. So, so anyway.

• 1:41:03Tim Ferriss?

  Thanks, brother.

• 1:41:04Speaker 03

  Cheers to you, brother. Congratulations on 500, wishing you to 500 more or 1,000 more. We'll see. When do you hang it up, by the way? How many do you think you got left in you?

• 1:41:15Tim Ferriss?

  I have no plans to hang it up.

• 1:41:17Speaker 03

  Good.

• 1:41:17Tim Ferriss?

  At this point, you know, this, this gives me, this is, uh, this is joyful for me. It's fun for me. And if it stops being fun, it's either time to hang it up or more likely it's time for me to change something. And I've just succumbed to some temptation that I need to fix, right? Like for this episode, let's take this episode as an example, number 500, right? I could have done like lessons learned over 500 episodes and done like a monologue, right?

• 1:41:45Speaker 03

  Instead you get Viagra questions?

• 1:41:49Tim Ferriss?

  Which is more fun.

• 1:41:51Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:41:51Tim Ferriss?

  It's more fun for me. It's more fun. It gives me more energy. It gives me more pleasure. Like, this is a good time. And like you said, you don't know how much time you have left. Nobody does. And so it's like, if you're not having fun, at least in my life, like, chances are, it's my fault.

• 1:42:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:12Tim Ferriss?

  Fucking fix it, you know? And if the choices you're making, your default choices, or the way things are set up, aren't working, change it. Experiment. Try something else. So for me, the way that, you know, I used to do six episodes a month with the podcast. I cut back to four on average. And I used to handle, say, sponsorships and this, that, and the other thing a certain way. And then I changed it because it was starting to feel like an obligation and I was starting to procrastinate and not look forward to it. So, you know, this is, I think, a game of iteration. And what might give me joy today might not give me joy tomorrow. And things

• 1:42:53Tim Ferriss?

  change. They evolve over time. But I love doing the podcast. So it wouldn't surprise me if I do another 500, another 1,000, and then take a look and reassess.

• 1:43:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think that really, it doesn't really matter where you are in life, because I remember, you know, when I was not like being a VC and doing these things, I left Olive Garden, which had good tips and unlimited breadsticks, to work at Computer City for less pay. But you know what? I was a hell of a lot happier when I was working at Computer City than I was at Olive Garden. So it's like, you just gotta do it. You gotta change it up if it's not working.

• 1:43:28Tim Ferriss?

  Switch it up. You gotta switch it up, man. So good to see you. I miss you, brother.

• 1:43:32Speaker 03

  I miss you too.

• 1:43:33Tim Ferriss?

  Love to see you in person sometime soon. So TV.

• 1:43:35Speaker 03

  Let's get these shots in the arms and make it happen.

• 1:43:39Speaker 03

  Seriously.

• 1:43:39Tim Ferriss?

  Exactly right. And to everybody listening, I love you guys. You know, I really so deeply appreciate everybody listening. It gives me the opportunity to play. It gives me the opportunity to push, to challenge myself also, to try to do things I don't think I can do with respect to this podcast, to wrangle people I think can't be wrangled. And also, just as important, to shoot the shit and talk about Viagra with people like Kevin.

• 1:44:13Tim Ferriss?

  So, so I really, really appreciate everyone who tunes into this podcast. And I know this has been a loosey goosey banter filled episode, but this is what I wanted to do. And ultimately, the only way I'll keep doing this is if I have some fun along the way. Thanks for having me, Tim. That was awesome. Yeah, brother. I'll see you soon. Hey, guys. This is Tim again. Just a few more things before you take off. Number one, this is Five Bullet Friday. Do you want to get a short email from me? Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little morsel of fun before the weekend? And Five Bullet Friday is a very short email where I share the coolest things I've found or that I've been pondering over the week.

• 1:44:58Tim Ferriss?

  That could include favorite new albums that I've discovered. It could include gizmos and gadgets and all sorts of weird shit that I've somehow dug up in the, the world of the esoteric as I do. It could include favorite articles that I've read and that I've shared with my close friends, for instance. And it's very short. It's just a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend. So if you want to receive that, check it out. Just go to fourhourworkweek.com. That's fourhourworkweek.com all spelled out and just drop in your email and you will get the very next one. And if you sign up, I hope you enjoy it. This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens.

• 1:45:39Tim Ferriss?

  I get asked all the time what I would take if I could only take one supplement. The answer is invariably Athletic Greens. I view it as all in one nutritional insurance. I recommended it, in fact, in The Four Hour Body. This is more than 10 years ago, and I did not get paid to do so. With approximately 75 vitamins, minerals, and whole food sourced ingredients, you'd be very hard pressed to find a more nutrient dense and comprehensive formula on the market. It has multivitamins, multi mineral greens complex, probiotics and prebiotics for gut health, an immunity formula, digestive enzymes, adaptogens, and much more. I usually take it once or twice a day just to make sure I've covered my bases if I miss anything I'm not aware of. Of course, I focus

• 1:46:22Tim Ferriss?

  On nutrient-dense meals to begin with, that's the basis. But Athletic Greens makes it easy to get a lot of nutrition when whole foods aren't readily available. Travel packets, I always have them in my bag when I'm zipping around. Right now Athletic Greens is giving my audience a special offer on top of their all-in-one formula, which is a free vitamin D supplement and five free travel packs with your first subscription purchase. Many of us are deficient in vitamin D. I've found that true for myself, which is usually produced in our bodies from sun exposure. So adding a vitamin D supplement to your daily routine is a great option for additional immune support. Support your immunity, gut health, and energy by visiting athleticgreens.com/tim.

• 1:47:03Tim Ferriss?

  You'll receive up to a year's supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your subscription. Again, that's athleticgreens.com/tim. This episode is brought to you by Literati Kids, a try-before-you-buy subscription book club. Great children's books open up new worlds for discovery. I remember as a kid, a handful of books that literally changed my life and still have informed my life. With Literati Kids, your child can explore uncharted places every month with spellbinding stories handpicked by experts. Each month, Literati delivers five vibrantly illustrated children's books, bringing the immersive magic of reading right into your home. Literati's age-based book clubs ensure appropriate reads for your budding bookworms, whether

• 1:47:47Tim Ferriss?

  they're snuggling with you for storytime or letting their imagination roam free. So you can choose what is most appropriate for your child. Each book bundle is thoughtfully tailored by education experts with five stories meant to spark new interests and nurture a healthy curiosity. So no more sorting through hundreds of titles trying to guess what your child will cherish. Literati sends you the best in children's literature. Then you can choose to purchase the ones they love and you send the rest back for free. From art and escapades to tales of compassion and friendship, each Literati box follows a new and enriching theme. And with personalized extras like stickers, surprises, and special guest artwork, every box is a fun and fresh adventure. So head to literati.com/tim. That's L-I-T-E.

• 1:48:32Tim Ferriss?

  brati.com/tim for 25% off your first two orders. Select your child's book club and start them on a literary journey like no other. Literati.com/tim is the only place where you can get 25% off your first two orders of this one-of-a-kind book subscription. The most joyful way to foster a lifelong love of learning in your children. So check it out one more time. Literati.com/tim.