My Sister Married a Man in Prison for Murder

On today’s episode, we hear about: · A woman wondering how to have a difficult conversation with her sister · A husband fighting to save his marriage after his wife’s confession · A wife struggling to convince her husband to get help for ongoing depression Next Steps: 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. 🔴 Get 15% off with code DELONY at Bon Charge. 🌿 Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. 😇 Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial. 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 🥤 Get 20% off with code DELONY at Organifi. 💪 Get 25% off your order at Thorne. 🏋️ Go to Trainwell to get started! Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  My sister recently met and married a man serving a life sentence for first degree murder. She kept their entire relationship a secret until she just texted me a picture of her wedding band and told me that she got married.

• 0:18Dr. John Delony?

  I don't think that's the actual issue.

• 0:20Speaker 00

  I hope not.

• 0:21Dr. John Delony?

  Can I tell you what I think the actual issue is and you can tell me if I'm wrong? Yo, yo, yo, what's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. So grateful that you've joined us. The greatest relationships and mental and emotional health show ever. That's not true by a long shot, but if you just keep saying it, I'm telling you, if you just keep saying it, evidently it all just becomes true. It doesn't even have to be true anymore. So glad that you are with us. For more than two decades, I've been sitting with hurting people trying to figure out what's the next right move, or help them figure out what's the next right move. And if that sounds like something you want to be a part of, you want to sit down with me and we can figure out what's the next thing, next thing to do in your world, give

• 1:05Dr. John Delony?

  me a buzz, 1-844-693-3291, or go to johndeloney.com/ask, A-S-K. I see you all in the booth laughing at me. Am I doing something? What did I do wrong? No.

• 1:19Speaker 02

  You're good, you're good.

• 1:20Dr. John Delony?

  What's what I do?

• 1:22Speaker 02

  Your shirt just has an image on it. It's boobs. Your shirt has boobs.

• 1:26Dr. John Delony?

  No, it's Milo, it's his eyes. Looks like I have low bosoms. Well, you're making me self-conscious now. I love this band. I love the Descendants, they're the best. Now I'm going to be all weirded out for the rest of the thanks, guys. I've got four nipples today on this show. I just got to Morgantown, West Virginia and talked to Gail. Hey, Gail, what's up?

• 1:51Speaker 00

  Hi, Dr. Dawn.

• 1:53Dr. John Delony?

  What's going on?

• 1:54Speaker 00

  So, um, I just have a, I have a confrontation, I guess you would call it, that I need to have with my sister.

• 2:00Dr. John Delony?

  You, you.

• 2:01Speaker 00

  I know, and I don't know how to go about this conversation. Just in general, I just don't do well with confrontations.

• 2:08Dr. John Delony?

  Excellent. Alright, bring it on. What's the confrontation?

• 2:12Speaker 00

  So, I, okay, I wrote this out. I'll read this to you just a little bit.

• 2:15Dr. John Delony?

  Alright.

• 2:16Speaker 00

  My sister recently met and married a man serving a life sentence for first degree murder. She met him while he was incarcerated.

• 2:24Dr. John Delony?

  Where? Is it like, is that like a special swipe right account? How do you, how do you do that?

• 2:30Speaker 00

  She had, he's like locally incarcerated from a, from our area, and I guess they just knew somebody mutually, and her friend set her up with him.

• 2:40Dr. John Delony?

  That's, that is a ride or die friend right there.

• 2:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, really, I know, I know.

• 2:44Dr. John Delony?

  They're married?

• 2:46Speaker 00

  They are married now. They, she kept their entire relationship a secret until she just texted me a picture of her wedding band and told me that she got married. And she hadn't even mentioned at first that he was in prison. So, just the fact that she got married and I didn't even know that she was in a relationship was shocking. And then she told me that he also was in prison and it's just no ball for there because there are a lot of other just terrible details.

• 3:11Dr. John Delony?

  I'm gonna have a job forever because people keep making choices like this. Good gosh.

• 3:16Speaker 00

  So, his, his, um, he was sentenced to, um, life in prison for first degree murder, which he confessed to, um, during the, the second trial. The first time the jury found him guilty, that was dismissed, and then the second time, instead of going to trial again, he chose to confess and take a plea deal. And this is also the second time he has served a sentenced prison, and his first, um, sentence was for attempted first degree murder. And, um, of course, you know, he says that he's innocent. My sister believes that twice, almost back to back, he was, has been wrongly convicted, and she thinks that-

• 3:53Dr. John Delony?

  All new wives believe.

• 3:55Speaker 00

  I know, I know, and she just cannot be persuaded otherwise, and so anyway, he's up for parole soon and, um-

• 4:02Dr. John Delony?

  There's no chance.

• 4:04Speaker 00

  That's what I thought too, but she's adamant that she thinks that, that he has a chance then.

• 4:09Dr. John Delony?

  Gail, hold on, hold on, hold on. Has she ever been right?

• 4:13Speaker 00

  Very true. She

• 4:14Dr. John Delony?

  She's never been right. Since you've known her, she hasn't been right.

• 4:18Speaker 00

  Right.

• 4:19Dr. John Delony?

  About anything.

• 4:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's part of the problem, honestly, is that this judgment in general.

• 4:25Dr. John Delony?

  If he's doing a life sentence for murder one, on the back end of another sentence for attempted murder one, he's not going to get paroled, unless he's in California.

• 4:35Speaker 00

  Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's my thoughts too. And of course, she's adamant that she says, you know, well, his lawyer has new information or whatever.

• 4:46Dr. John Delony?

  He sure does.

• 4:47Speaker 00

  Which is what I tell her. I said, I'm sure he's telling you that, but I just don't think that that's true.

• 4:53Dr. John Delony?

  Well, I've seen that lock enough to know that probably not, probably not. Alright, so let's pretend, though, he gets out on parole.

• 5:01Speaker 00

  Right. Yes, exactly. So that's the conversation. I guess right now it's easy to just kind of pretend like it's not happening because...

• 5:08Dr. John Delony?

  No, no, no. Your sister's pretending. You can live in real world.

• 5:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But at least for us, the main issue is, you know, my husband and I, we have three really young children. They're all under five and they all love my sister so much and they, we see her a lot and we talk to her a lot. They have no idea, of course, that any of this is going on. But if she, if he gets out of prison and they are living their life together, I feel like I'm gonna, we're gonna have to have a conversation to say like, we don't want him in our lives or around the children, at least, at the very least.

• 5:40Dr. John Delony?

  Why? Because of a little murder?

• 5:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, really.

• 5:44Dr. John Delony?

  Um, I, I actually, um, I don't think that's the actual issue.

• 5:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:49Dr. John Delony?

  Can I tell you what I think the actual issue is? And you can tell me if I'm wrong?

• 5:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:53Dr. John Delony?

  I think the actual issue is, they don't know her. They love the whirling dervish that is their aunt that sweeps into their life and buys them a bunch of cool stuff and acts all bananas and they think it's hilarious and fun and you and husband have to keep the rules and then she wisps away and the, the excitement...

• 6:16Dr. John Delony?

  For a kid, what would you say, five, four and three or something like that?

• 6:20Speaker 00

  They're like five, three and seven months.

• 6:22Dr. John Delony?

  Good God, your house, by the way.

• 6:24Speaker 00

  I know. It is crazy.

• 6:26Dr. John Delony?

  So, yeah, you have like a live, like multiple live chainsaws going in your living room at any given moment. So they love the, ah, and then it's like a roller coaster. It's fun.

• 6:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:37Dr. John Delony?

  You can't live there. I think the bigger issue here is very soon they'll begin to know her.

• 6:46Speaker 00

  Yes, exactly. I totally agree.

• 6:48Dr. John Delony?

  You're gonna have this confrontation. The guy's not getting out of jail. He's just not. But you're gonna have to have this conversation when it turns into, hey, I want the kids to come stay with me for a month. Or why don't you all go out of town and I'll come stay with them. And you're like, yeah, no. I think that's the confrontation that's coming.

• 7:07Speaker 00

  That's true. That's very true. And my husband kind of thinks more that way, too, because it's like, if she's making these types of judgment calls in this area of her life, what other types of judgment calls? We already kind of, we've never let the kids stay alone with her. Just before this has happened, she just hasn't made the best judgment calls, you know?

• 7:25Dr. John Delony?

  Right.

• 7:26Speaker 00

  Um, so yeah, that actually does come up a lot where she even like on Valentine's Day, she said, why don't you guys go out and I'll watch the kids? And I was like, we're just gonna take the kids with us.

• 7:35Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. We want tonight to be extra hot, so we're taking all three of them.

• 7:39Speaker 00

  Yes, because I just, um, yeah, I have been just avoiding having a difficult conversation. So I always just come up with excuses like that, like, we're just gonna take the kids with us, you know?

• 7:50Dr. John Delony?

  And so can I say this? Uh, my guess is, and this is the compassionate side of me, um, your sister's had a rough go of it, hasn't she?

• 8:00Speaker 00

  She has. Yeah, we had a rough childhood and then she has had a rough, she was, became a mom, she was a teen mom and she's always been a single mom and, you know, she's had, yeah, her struggles.

• 8:13Dr. John Delony?

  So she's had her struggles. Um, I can guarantee you she can feel it a mile away when someone's not being honest with her.

• 8:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's true.

• 8:22Dr. John Delony?

  And my also, my guess, tell me if I'm wrong, I could be way out to lunch here, um, she does not handle direct, honest interactions very well, does she?

• 8:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, uh, no, she doesn't because she thinks that, uh, she specifically, we, we are Christians and my sister is not, and she specifically says that I'm judgmental and I think I'm holier than thou and it just always, anytime I say anything to question her decisions, which, you know, she makes a lot of, she has previously made a lot of bad decisions, um, it just turns into a fight about that, you know?

• 8:58Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Um, yelling at somebody and calling them judgmental when A, they're putting up a boundary or they're calling out unsafe actions, right?

• 9:08Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:09Dr. John Delony?

  When somebody says, uh, so forget the right or wrong, right? Forget that.

• 9:13Speaker 00

  Right.

• 9:14Dr. John Delony?

  She probably makes choices, I'm just gonna guess, like, go out on a limb here, like, like marrying a murderer.

• 9:19Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:20Dr. John Delony?

  Um, she makes choices that are inherently unsafe, right?

• 9:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:24Dr. John Delony?

  And when you say something, um, it's easy to defend herself by just calling you the bad guy.

• 9:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:31Dr. John Delony?

  So, I don't blame her for that, I get it, I understand it.

• 9:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 9:35Dr. John Delony?

  It's hard, it's hard to hear someone who loves you saying, hey, if you drink like that, or you snort that, or you sleep with that, like, you're gonna have problems, right? Um, it's easy just to throw grenades. So, I think for you, the hard part is, I love my sister and I have a duty to my kids.

• 9:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:54Dr. John Delony?

  I love my sister and I have a responsibility towards my marriage.

• 9:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:58Dr. John Delony?

  And those may not intermingle much.

• 10:01Speaker 00

  Yes, yes, I know. Yeah, that's very much true and I don't know if it, maybe it just feels like it's coming to a head because this situation is just very, like, acute, I guess, but it's kind of just, it, just an overall problem, you know?

• 10:18Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 10:19Speaker 00

  With our relationship with her.

• 10:20Dr. John Delony?

  I, at some point, you're gonna have to sit down and have the hard conversation and it's gonna be best, um...

• 10:27Dr. John Delony?

  I like the way my friend Jefferson Fisher frames it like you have to have a goal for the conversation.

• 10:32Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 10:33Dr. John Delony?

  And if your goal is I need to say all the things I need to say that you're gonna leave in completely disconnected.

• 10:40Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 10:41Dr. John Delony?

  If you, so I want you to spend some time actually deciding what is the goal of this confrontation I need to have.

• 10:48Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 10:49Dr. John Delony?

  If it is to say, I'm never gonna leave my kids with you. I just struggle to trust you. You just married a murderer.

• 10:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:57Dr. John Delony?

  Like, I struggle to trust you and I struggle to trust you with the safety of our kids. I do love you around them, but we're gonna be there.

• 11:04Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 11:06Dr. John Delony?

  And do the whirling dervish of middle fingers and like the way she'll talk about you and how dare you and who do you think you are. I mean, you can stand in the middle of that storm because you're anchored into dude reality.

• 11:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 11:21Dr. John Delony?

  But you gotta ask yourself, what's the point of the conversation? Is it to give her a lifeline? Like, hey, when this thing burns to the ground, we'll still be here? I mean, I, you gotta ask yourself what that goal is. If you go into the confrontation without a goal, it's gonna, it's gonna, no one's gonna be happy because you're gonna start searching for a feeling.

• 11:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:38Dr. John Delony?

  And you'll never get that, you'll never get that feeling.

• 11:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just, I think right now where her feelings are so strong about the situation with, you know, her husband, I feel like everything always circles back to that. And so I would think like if I had a conversation, try and try to keep it broad and general, that it would circle back to that. And then I feel like it would almost be like she would give me an ultimatum, like, uh, you know.

• 12:05Dr. John Delony?

  She gets to do that.

• 12:06Speaker 00

  You don't want him, then, yeah.

• 12:07Dr. John Delony?

  She gets to do that.

• 12:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I'm just afraid that she will just be like, I don't know, no contact. Like she will just say, well, if you don't want him, then you don't get me or.

• 12:16Dr. John Delony?

  So what's your alternative to, to put your kids in an unsafe situation?

• 12:19Speaker 00

  That's true. There's no solution.

• 12:22Dr. John Delony?

  No. I mean, there, there is a solution, but you wanna have it all and you can't.

• 12:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's true.

• 12:28Dr. John Delony?

  You wanna have a sister who's clearly been struggling for a long time, who just made a wild life decision, not hate you. Or not cut you off, um, because you probably feel like you're the only light in her life. Um, and your kids are the only light in, in their life and you see your kids dying laughing when she's around because she's probably pretty remarkable with your kids.

• 12:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, she really, they really love her so much.

• 12:52Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, she's chaos and fun and she's exactly what an aunt should be, right?

• 12:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:57Dr. John Delony?

  My sister goes by the name Tia Loca. My, I, I think my, I don't even know if my kids know, they do know her name, but they, they've never called her that.

• 13:06Speaker 00

  Um, yeah.

• 13:06Dr. John Delony?

  But she also is like super responsible and she's a funny, hilarious, like everything's on fire when she comes in the house, which is exactly what you want with an aunt, right? That's what you want.

• 13:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 13:18Dr. John Delony?

  And also she's not married to a murderer.

• 13:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, that's, that's very true.

• 13:24Dr. John Delony?

  You know what I mean? So like.

• 13:25Speaker 00

  And like you said, right now they just see her as the fun aunt, but especially my five-year-old in a couple of years. I mean, she's gonna, yeah, really just, I don't know, she's gonna learn more about her than just like, you know, the fun side.

• 13:38Dr. John Delony?

  Well, she'll learn like when I'm gonna come, I'm coming for your birthday, I'm coming for your birthday and she doesn't show up. Or I'm gonna be there, I'm gonna be there, I'm gonna be there and she doesn't show up. That's when they'll begin to learn.

• 13:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 13:51Dr. John Delony?

  And so you're gonna have to sit in the heartbreak that all parents have to sit in with their kids when they learn that not everybody tells the truth, not everybody has, has, um, some people have struggles and it's heartbreaking.

• 14:06Speaker 00

  Right, right. I don't, uh, my sister, um, she has always, um, shown up. I think it's a matter of like, if we like would allow her to show up, depending on what state she's in. So I think I worry too that it's gonna come back, but like the kids are gonna maybe be resentful of us if we, if, if it becomes a no contact situation, even though it wasn't like we made it that way.

• 14:31Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I would just tell you, who cares?

• 14:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's true.

• 14:34Dr. John Delony?

  My kids get resentful, um, especially my younger one, when I turn the TV off.

• 14:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:40Dr. John Delony?

  My younger one gets resentful when I don't let them eat ice cream for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

• 14:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:45Dr. John Delony?

  Like, like, that's just kinda what they do because they're kids. They don't get a vote.

• 14:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

• 14:52Dr. John Delony?

  And then when they get older, they're gonna be really grateful that mom and dad stood in the gap when they were children and kept them safe to the best of their abilities. And, I mean, just imagine the alternative. The other conversation.

• 15:03Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 15:04Dr. John Delony?

  Hey, Mom, why did you keep letting Aunt so-and-so come over when you knew she was gonna sneak alcohol in here? And she was gonna leave us with murder boyfriend or murder husband?

• 15:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:15Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, I think, I think you've got to let go, and it's gonna be hard. Let go your responsibility for keeping your sister in check or in line. And you're gonna have to recognize, I can't keep her in check and in line. No matter how much I love her, how much I try to coach her, no matter how much I try to quote-unquote "model the right," like a peaceful way of doing life, she's gonna go marry a murderer. She's gonna go do her thing. And let's say the 0.0001% chance this guy gets out on parole. Good, great grand. He's not coming around my kids. And, by the way, I've met people who got out on parole. They're almost always super clear-eyed.

• 16:00Dr. John Delony?

  Like, "Yeah, of course, I understand that you want some space between me and your kids. That's not a problem. I'm not gonna come over for Thanksgiving. I get it. I totally get it, totally get it. And I wanna honor the, the temperature of your household. I'm not gonna show up there." So, um, yeah, I would love her the best I can. And when you think confrontation is coming, then be super clear and have a goal for the meeting. But I think before any of that goes on, you need to exhale and just be sad for a little bit, cuz I wish everyone could have an aunt like my sister. Everyone, I wish. And you don't have that. I'm sorry. It breaks my heart for you. Thanks for the call, my friend. We'll be right back.

• 16:47Dr. John Delony?

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• 18:14Dr. John Delony?

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• 19:41Dr. John Delony?

  That's join, J-O-I-N, delete.me/deloney. All right, we are back. Hey, take one second for me, please, and subscribe to the show if you're watching this on YouTube, or go to the podcast and like it, or download it, or do the reviews with all the stars. All the stars. Makes such a huge difference for us. Thank you so much. Let's go out to Mitch in Chicago. What's up? What's up Mitch?

• 20:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, I called in. I've been having a little bit of trouble with my, with my wife and I was looking to try and get a little bit of advice.

• 20:19Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, man, what's going on?

• 20:21Speaker 03

  Um, so my wife works as a nurse at a large hospital and I work from home in a tech company. And some of her interests have kind of changed. She came home and kind of let me know that she had interest towards a coworker and kind of caused a little bit of a tuss between us. And then I found out she was hanging out with some of her male doctors at their house.

• 20:58Speaker 03

  And she said that she was actually hanging out with some of her other coworkers who were different in a more social scene. So, um, just been trying to kind of work through that and get on the same page and see what's going on. I was kind of wondering what your thoughts and opinions were.

• 21:20Dr. John Delony?

  Uh, I mean, I guess my first thing, uh, this, like, my first gut reaction, um, and again, this one's a little more challenging because you're not sitting in front of me. I can't see you. Um, but it feels like one of two things. One, you don't fully want to metabolize the seriousness of this, or you've just come up with some, some safer, more generic, uh, um, unflavored oatmeal language to describe the fact that your wife is having an affair. She's cheating on you.

• 21:52Speaker 03

  Right.

• 21:54Dr. John Delony?

  Which one of those is true? Is it one of just nervous you're on the show and you don't want to like fully dive in? Or is it just, is it hit differently when you're like, no, my wife's having an affair. She's cheating on me and I think my life as I knew it is now over and different now?

• 22:10Speaker 03

  Um, I think I'm just trying to come to the sense of reality of it.

• 22:14Dr. John Delony?

  There you go. Okay.

• 22:16Speaker 03

  That makes sense?

• 22:17Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, totally. I mean, your whole world got blown up. How long have you all been married?

• 22:22Speaker 03

  We've been together for 12 years now.

• 22:25Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 22:25Speaker 03

  And, uh, we got married a little bit before COVID.

• 22:30Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So just y'all been married for five years?

• 22:33Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 22:34Dr. John Delony?

  Ish. Okay. Um,

• 22:39Dr. John Delony?

  hmm. My gut tells me this didn't just start. How long has she had one foot out of the boat of this marriage?

• 22:48Speaker 03

  Um, I kinda just started to find out about this um, towards the middle of end of last year.

• 22:58Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Was it a shock to you or did you go, ah, I knew it?

• 23:04Speaker 03

  I was a little frustrated to say the least.

• 23:08Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, but that's not, that's not what I asked. Were you stunned by this? Did it catch you completely off guard? Or did it confirm some fears you've had for a while?

• 23:16Speaker 03

  Um, yeah, definitely. I didn't know where this came from.

• 23:19Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Did she ever cheat on you when you were dating? You dated for seven years, huh?

• 23:23Speaker 03

  Yes, and no, she did not cheat on me during that time that I know of.

• 23:27Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Um, yeah, I guess, I mean, I guess the, the bigger questions are, what are you, what are you gonna do now? What do you wanna do now?

• 23:40Speaker 03

  It's a good question. Um, we're trying to go to therapy at the moment to try and get an understanding. She indicated that she didn't cheat on me. She needed

• 23:55Speaker 03

  a father figure or another person who's more of a superiority individual to like, talk about stuff with. Because what she does as a nurse is very traumatic.

• 24:12Speaker 03

  Um, she works in an OR room, then they do a lot of, you know,

• 24:20Speaker 03

  they are saving life and death, I guess. And I don't know, she

• 24:28Speaker 03

  just kind of indicated that she never really cheated on me. She went to somebody else. It was more of like an emotional type thing. I don't know if that helped to provide any context, but my, so.

• 24:39Dr. John Delony?

  I don't buy it.

• 24:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:42Dr. John Delony?

  At, at all.

• 24:45Dr. John Delony?

  You, you go to lunch with an emotional affair. You um, send inappropriate texts with an emotional affair. You um, over disclose. That person becomes your safe place and you begin dreaming about life um, with them as opposed to the person you're with. You don't go to their house over and over and over again.

• 25:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:10Dr. John Delony?

  Um, dude, I've been in those rooms and I, I'm not in those rooms. I've never been in those rooms day in and day out, minute after minute, hour after hour. She's exactly right. It's a traumatic job. It's hard.

• 25:26Dr. John Delony?

  And you go talk to, with those, about those challenges with a counselor. You go talk about those challenges with a group. You tell you, your, her husband, "Hey, I, I'm struggling carrying the weight of this thing. I need to go talk to somebody." You don't sneak around for a year going over to, you know what I mean? And that, like, forget going over to doctor and surgeon's houses. She told you she's got feelings for somebody else.

• 26:00Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, am I wrong?

• 26:02Speaker 03

  No.

• 26:03Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 26:06Dr. John Delony?

  So what are you all going to therapy for? Cause, cause you can go with two different, with two different mindsets here. If you're going to understand what happened.

• 26:20Dr. John Delony?

  If you're going to just poke around in the drawers. This will happen again. This will happen again. This will happen again. If you're going to save your marriage,

• 26:32Dr. John Delony?

  then you'll have a different track to take.

• 26:37Dr. John Delony?

  Do you get what I'm saying?

• 26:38Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 26:39Dr. John Delony?

  Cause she's still going to work in the same place with these same people, right?

• 26:43Speaker 03

  Um, the individual no longer works there is what she told me after some time.

• 26:50Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, but I don't, I don't trust her as far as I can see her. Does she show you her text every day and have her location turned on?

• 26:57Speaker 03

  Um, she actually turned her location off and said that it was overarching and overpowering.

• 27:05Dr. John Delony?

  Yet she wants a, a father figure?

• 27:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:19Dr. John Delony?

  I'm sorry, man.

• 27:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, it sucks.

• 27:26Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. You love this woman, huh?

• 27:30Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 27:36Dr. John Delony?

  You all have kids?

• 27:38Speaker 03

  No.

• 27:39Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 27:45Dr. John Delony?

  My, um, associate producer of the show let me know that she never even changed her name on her driver's license, is that right?

• 27:57Speaker 03

  Um, eventually she did. After some time.

• 28:01Dr. John Delony?

  How long?

• 28:07Speaker 03

  But it took a while.

• 28:08Dr. John Delony?

  How many years?

• 28:13Speaker 03

  Three.

• 28:14Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 28:16Dr. John Delony?

  So just from the outside looking in, man, it sounds like somebody who, for whatever reason, it took y'all the better part of a decade to even get married. And even after that, she didn't want to give up her independence or her way of navigating the world.

• 28:36Dr. John Delony?

  And maybe she didn't mind riding co-pilot, or her driving and you riding co-pilot, but she wasn't going to become one with the person she married.

• 28:51Dr. John Delony?

  And let's give her the benefit of the doubt. Let's say she's exactly right, she never slept with anybody, high five, um, but she

• 29:02Dr. John Delony?

  doesn't trust you enough to say, "I'm struggling." She doesn't honor you enough when you say, when she says, "Hey, I've got a feeling for somebody else," and you say, "Okay, let's rebuild trust," and she's like, "No, no, no, no, I can't rebuild trust like that." Like, you need it, like, let me see your texts and let me know where you are, because you're telling me you're going over these guys' houses late at night.

• 29:22Dr. John Delony?

  And she says, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down, that's too much." I mean, if behavior's a language, she's telling you. I want you there. I want you at home, working the IT job, so I can know that direct deposit's gonna keep happening, but I wanna go live my life. I wanna deal with my stuff the way I wanna deal with it. I want to involve other men in our, in our circle of emotional and physical trust. And you just have a grown-up decision to make, my brother.

• 29:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:53Dr. John Delony?

  And I hate that. I hate that for you.

• 29:55Speaker 03

  We do split everything, which is, you know, nice. And have separate bank accounts and things.

• 30:01Dr. John Delony?

  No, that's terrible. That's terrible. That means you all are roommates, dude.

• 30:10Dr. John Delony?

  And I say terrible, like, not as a judgment call, but as like, you can't make your marriage work that way. I mean, you have split emotions, you have split physical lives, you have split financial lives. It sounds like the only thing that's different is y'all went and got a government stamp on, on a piece of paper, but your lives are still as though you're dating.

• 30:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, I can see that.

• 30:36Dr. John Delony?

  Does that make sense?

• 30:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:40Dr. John Delony?

  I guess the only, the path you got moving forward, brother, is to truly, honestly, and as painfully as this would be, write down the questions you actually have. Not the hem-haw, not the, like, put your head down and she just kinda tells these tales about, "I'm struggling," and then this, and then I had to go over to their house over and over and over again. And, and you say, "Will you go over there anymore?" Like, "How dare you ask that? It's too much. It's just too overbearing." You need to write down the questions you actually wanna know the answers to. And then you're gonna have to ask yourself, A, do I trust this person? B, do I wanna stay married to this person? And C, what must

• 31:25Dr. John Delony?

  be true for me to remain married?

• 31:32Dr. John Delony?

  And no one can really make that decision for you.

• 31:36Speaker 03

  Right.

• 31:37Dr. John Delony?

  I can just tell you, if I was to switch places with you, I would, it'd be real, real, real thin ice.

• 31:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, I understand that.

• 31:49Dr. John Delony?

  Do you feel like you got the full story?

• 31:56Speaker 03

  I feel like there might be a few areas of the painting that still needs to be drawn out.

• 32:03Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 32:04Speaker 03

  But it's mostly there.

• 32:06Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 32:08Dr. John Delony?

  Well, I can't make, I can't, I can't, I mean, I can't tell you what to do next, brother. All I can do is say from the outside looking in, you're right to feel completely bewildered. Cause the actions of both of you aren't the actions of a married couple. It's gonna be ride or die till, till the wheels fall off. It's gonna be standing there at the castle gates, like just saying, bring it on world. It's, it's, it's us two versus y'all.

• 32:34Dr. John Delony?

  Your marriage is, is built on, we have two different lives that we just happen to share a house and a marriage certificate. That's the way I run it, dude. You can run it that way. The data tells me it's not, it's not gonna work. And I think a lot of people race off to marriage counseling after there's some sort of infidelity and they just want to talk about it and talk about it and talk about it. And maybe you don't even know if you want to save this marriage. You want to find out some more information. You want to get to the bottom of some stuff, but it's gonna always land on what you need to feel like I can reestablish and she can re-earn my trust. And what things are we going to do differently so that we create a life where one plus one equals one?

• 33:20Dr. John Delony?

  And that's the choice you're gonna have to make, man. And again, if it's me, all the notifications are turned on. Probably she's getting another job. She's working at a different hospital. She's committing to letting you know, I'm struggling in these areas and someone go talk to this professional or this person and I'm not going other, over to other rock star surgeons and doctors houses late at night and lying to you about it. I'm not gonna continue working with people that I've got, that I'm, wanna have, you know, a relationship with, an intimate or romantic relationship with, or that I have feelings for, if you will. We're gonna share finances, all those things like, man, you're gonna have to do a bunch

• 34:01Dr. John Delony?

  of different stuff that y'all haven't done in, what, 10, 12 years of being together? And you're gonna have to build a completely new marriage. And you just, it's gonna start with you asking yourself, do I still wanna do that? And then asking her, do you want in on that? And that's two big question marks in my mind. And then from there, man, I believe y'all can build whatever you want to build. I just have a belief in people and redemption. I have a belief in people. They can, if they've chosen a miserable life, they can choose an amazing one. But it all comes down to that choice and both of you have to have both feet in the boat. Both of you have to be all the way in. Thanks for the call, my brother. Call anytime and I'd love for her to, to reach out too, man. I'd love to hear her side of the story, but you have some hard questions to ask moving forward.

• 34:47Dr. John Delony?

  We'll be right back.

• 34:50Dr. John Delony?

  This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Alright, so I was born and raised in Texas and I love, love the myth of the lone cowboy. You know, the guy who doesn't need anyone or anything. He's got a mustache and he solves all his problems by himself. It's a great fun story and it's a lie. In a society that's obsessed with your diet, your workout routine and your job and your everything else, it's easy to forget that no one can do life alone. And I don't care whether you're introverted or extroverted or whatever internet-based relationship style you want to give yourself. I don't care about any of that. We all have to have a community and a support system to do life with. Listen, it's time to shift the focus from doing it all by ourself to knowing that we

• 35:33Dr. John Delony?

  can only be well and whole when we ask for help. Therapy can be a great source of support or help for any area of your life. And if you're thinking about starting therapy, try BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy, so it can fit with your schedule. To get started, you just fill out a short online survey and you'll get matched with a licensed therapist. If it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This month, start to build your support system with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H E L P, dot com slash deloney. Alright, we are back. Don't forget to hit the subscribe button.

• 36:16Dr. John Delony?

  I just got to Indianapolis, Indiana and talked to J I L L. What's up Jill?

• 36:23Speaker 00

  Hi, thanks for taking my call.

• 36:25Dr. John Delony?

  Of course. Thanks for calling in. What's going on in your world?

• 36:28Speaker 00

  Um, well, I, I think I know the answer to this, but the question that I have is, how can I get my husband to prioritize his mental health when I'm at my breaking point?

• 36:47Dr. John Delony?

  I'm sorry.

• 36:51Dr. John Delony?

  How long have you been this close to the edge?

• 37:02Speaker 00

  I, I think that I have been at my breaking point for like

• 37:08Speaker 00

  five years and I feel like recently I broke.

• 37:14Dr. John Delony?

  What broke it?

• 37:16Speaker 00

  Um.

• 37:21Speaker 00

  Well, I think what really did it was my husband and I have, um.

• 37:28Speaker 00

  He's, he's kind of always been in this like low grade depression for a really long time and it caused a lot of damage to, or a lot of hardship for our marriage. So we went to a, like a marriage retreat thing, um, and it went really, really well. And he was great for about six weeks and then, then it just went back to how it was. And I think that is really what broke me.

• 37:55Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 37:56Speaker 00

  Finally.

• 37:57Dr. John Delony?

  You believed one more time, huh?

• 38:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:02Dr. John Delony?

  Do you have little ones?

• 38:04Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 38:05Dr. John Delony?

  How old?

• 38:07Speaker 00

  Eleven, nine and six.

• 38:08Dr. John Delony?

  Ah, man.

• 38:10Speaker 00

  So they're not little, little, but.

• 38:11Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, but they're in prime absorption, like they're able to

• 38:14Speaker 00

  Right, yeah.

• 38:16Dr. John Delony?

  Absorb and, and, and see, right?

• 38:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:20Dr. John Delony?

  So I guess my question for you is what do you want to be different?

• 38:25Speaker 00

  Um.

• 38:28Speaker 00

  I want him to be happy. Like, I.

• 38:36Speaker 00

  He's not my first love, but he was my best friend and I miss my friend a lot. And I've tried, like I've had other friends, um.

• 38:48Speaker 00

  And they're not him. Like, he's the one that I want, and he's, he's not there. I married him because I knew that he would never, ever leave me.

• 39:00Speaker 00

  And it, it never really occurred to me that he would leave mentally and stay here physically, which might actually be worse.

• 39:12Dr. John Delony?

  Did it ever occur to you that he could feel the fact that you never fully loved him?

• 39:18Speaker 00

  I fully loved him.

• 39:21Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 39:24Dr. John Delony?

  But you married him out of loyalty, not out of, I want to build a life with you?

• 39:29Speaker 00

  No, I definitely wanted to build a life with him. He was a person who I knew that I could build a life with.

• 39:37Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 39:37Speaker 00

  Um, definitely that, like, he was not the first love. The first love was a teenage thing. It was definitely very, um...

• 39:48Dr. John Delony?

  Teenagey, that's cool.

• 39:49Speaker 00

  It has had, it has had a lot of impact on our relationship. Um, in large part, um, specifically because when we were a couple of years into our marriage, this first guy who basically ghosted me, um, called me out of the blue, and I was like, what? And so I talked to him, and it caused

• 40:18Speaker 00

  huge upset in our relationship. I was 21, I think, when this happened. I got married very young.

• 40:27Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 40:27Speaker 00

  Um...

• 40:28Dr. John Delony?

  When you say you talked to him, I'm, I've learned that that means different things to different generations of people.

• 40:34Speaker 00

  Um, I, I talked to him on the phone that night for a couple of hours, and just was like, what happened?

• 40:43Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, so you didn't like talk to him, like, go hook back up with him?

• 40:46Speaker 00

  No.

• 40:47Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. And why did this phone call disrupt your husband's equilibrium so bad?

• 40:53Speaker 00

  So, so it wasn't the phone call itself. It was me. It was, we were not doing great in our marriage already at the time. We've always kind of struggled. Um...

• 41:09Speaker 00

  In large part, I think because my husband hasn't ever actually fully trusted me. Um, but I didn't know that until after we got married. Um.

• 41:22Speaker 00

  But so basically I. All of those like. What happened with this, this first boyfriend, we'll call him. He, um.

• 41:35Speaker 00

  He kind of just disappeared out of my life, like in the middle of the like. Infatuation in love period of.

• 41:46Speaker 00

  The relationship.

• 41:47Dr. John Delony?

  But you were eighteen, eighteen though, right?

• 41:50Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 41:51Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. How old are you now?

• 41:53Speaker 00

  Thirty-four.

• 41:54Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, let's stop talking about high school boyfriend. Like bo- both, both, both him and.

• 41:58Speaker 00

  I would love to.

• 42:00Dr. John Delony?

  And him and, yeah, and husband. Like if your husband's still bringing this up, then yeah, he's, he's got some, some pretty significant challenges.

• 42:08Speaker 00

  So what is, what is significant is that.

• 42:13Speaker 00

  I was trying to talk to my husband about, like, basically I was confused, like.

• 42:20Speaker 00

  This is bringing up a lot of old feelings. We're not in a good place. Um, and I was trying to talk to him and I think what I was trying to do really was. Communicate like. I'm confused. I'm kind of scared. Like I don't, I don't know what's going on. Um. But what I said to him and what he heard was.

• 42:49Speaker 00

  He said, are you in love with him still? And I said, yes.

• 42:54Speaker 00

  And he said, do you love me? And he said, are you in love with me? And I said, I don't know.

• 43:04Speaker 00

  And that is the thing that was so extremely damaging. It's not about the boyfriend.

• 43:11Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, okay, but that was when you were 21 years old, 15 years ago.

• 43:14Speaker 00

  Yep, yep. That's true.

• 43:17Dr. John Delony?

  The things I said 15 years ago, the things I said seven years ago. God help me, you know what I mean? Like.

• 43:24Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 43:24Dr. John Delony?

  The thing is, is y'all chose to stay together. You chose to work on it. You chose to make humans. Y'all have made three humans, right?

• 43:31Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 43:33Dr. John Delony?

  So I, I guess at the end of the day, if that's still a thing floating around that when you were 21, you admitted to your brand new husband that you still had feelings for a high school boyfriend? And you were confused because a lot of people get married and they think it's supposed to like magically make all old flames go away, doesn't, right?

• 43:55Dr. John Delony?

  And they think I'm gonna get married and it's gonna magically be magic and it's just super not, right? Like, so all that to say is, I don't know anybody who gets married at 21 that doesn't say dumb stuff. I don't know anyone who gets married at 31 who doesn't say things that 10 years later they're like, woof, I wish I could have that one back.

• 44:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 44:10Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And so here's the deal.

• 44:12Speaker 00

  I fully agree.

• 44:13Dr. John Delony?

  We're here right now.

• 44:16Dr. John Delony?

  Let me ask you, what do you want? For you, when I asked you that question, the first thing you said is, I want my husband to be happy.

• 44:24Dr. John Delony?

  What do you want?

• 44:28Speaker 00

  I want to be happy.

• 44:29Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, there you go. What does that mean?

• 44:35Dr. John Delony?

  Paint me a picture of that.

• 44:42Speaker 00

  I want to know that I am

• 44:50Speaker 00

  valued in my home and in my life.

• 44:54Dr. John Delony?

  But you don't value, Jill.

• 45:01Dr. John Delony?

  You're still heartbroken about a dumb thing you said when you were 21 years old?

• 45:07Speaker 00

  It's, I mean...

• 45:08Dr. John Delony?

  You think that the reason he doesn't talk to you is something is wrong with you.

• 45:15Speaker 00

  That's the thing that I'm told.

• 45:19Dr. John Delony?

  I know, but you believe it.

• 45:22Speaker 00

  I don't, I, I know that his stuff is not my fault.

• 45:28Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 45:29Speaker 00

  He has reacted to a lot of things and I feel like in an effort to be fair to him, it is important for me to be transparent with what I actually did do to cause him damage. But I did not cause his stuff. His dad left him when he was six.

• 45:52Speaker 00

  And I think that all of his stuff stems from that.

• 45:58Speaker 00

  But he doesn't really acknowledge that that's still a problem that he's never worked through.

• 46:05Dr. John Delony?

  I'm gonna go one step further. Yes, that happened.

• 46:10Dr. John Delony?

  Yes, you broke his heart when you said you still had feelings for another guy 15 years ago.

• 46:17Dr. John Delony?

  He continues to struggle because he hasn't chosen to change his life.

• 46:24Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:26Dr. John Delony?

  And now you all gotten in that weird figure eight infinity loop

• 46:32Dr. John Delony?

  dance that is you show up feeling less than in your own house and you tiptoe around your own house and you tiptoe around your own kids and then he knows people are tiptoeing around him and then he chooses to not do anything to bridge that gap or his body shuts him down, whatever, and it just gets in this and then you are reaching for ghosts and this guy that was never gonna leave you, but he's left you, like you said perfectly, he left you, but he never left. And somebody has to stop that dance.

• 47:06Dr. John Delony?

  And sometimes it is, here is the deal, here's the life I am looking for. You have left me in our own home. Or a better way to say that, a more connecting way to say that is, I feel like you have left this marriage, you just haven't left our home, you haven't left our bed. Do you want to stay married to me? Because if you want to stay married to me, here's what must be true.

• 47:30Dr. John Delony?

  And I would like to be married to you. What must be true for you to want to stay married to me? Y'all gotta put that on the table.

• 47:40Speaker 00

  I think right now, my hangup is that we're about to our 15th anniversary.

• 47:53Speaker 00

  And for 14 years, I have always been the one bringing up the things that need to be talked about and pushing for the connection and pushing to resolve things and...

• 48:10Dr. John Delony?

  So Jill, what's your alternative?

• 48:13Dr. John Delony?

  Because now you're keeping score. When you start scorekeeping, that is, that's somebody hovering over the ash of resentment.

• 48:24Dr. John Delony?

  That's contempt. That's one of the Gottman's four horsemen of the end of a marriage.

• 48:31Dr. John Delony?

  I've been doing so much, you've been doing nothing but being a net drain on this relationship. And suddenly you find yourself going up a ladder and you're looking down upon him. I've been doing this, I've been doing this 15 years, I'm out.

• 48:48Speaker 00

  I mean, that is essentially where I am. I'm not, I'm just, I'm trying to be peaceful. Like, that's basically what I'm trying to do now. But I'm not bringing up the things that need to be talked about because I'm exhausted.

• 49:03Dr. John Delony?

  I get that. So are you gonna leave?

• 49:06Speaker 00

  No.

• 49:09Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so you're gonna stay?

• 49:11Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 49:12Dr. John Delony?

  You're never gonna leave?

• 49:17Speaker 00

  No.

• 49:18Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 49:21Dr. John Delony?

  If you're gonna make that choice, that I'm gonna stay, then that frames what your next move is.

• 49:33Dr. John Delony?

  If there is a "or else" line you're drawing, "This has to change or else I'm gonna go live my life."

• 49:42Dr. John Delony?

  Because this isn't a marriage of fidelity.

• 49:48Dr. John Delony?

  He's choosing to opt out of the marriage.

• 49:53Dr. John Delony?

  And maybe he didn't sleep with somebody, or he's not opting out with work, but he's opting out by choosing to not engage.

• 50:02Dr. John Delony?

  If there's not an "or else" line you're gonna draw, then you have to do one of two things: Make peace with the way it is and begin to live your life. If you don't wanna go dancing with me, fine. I'm gonna go take dance lessons, because I wanna dance.

• 50:17Speaker 00

  I have done a lot of that.

• 50:25Speaker 00

  It's just lonely.

• 50:26Dr. John Delony?

  It's so lonely. But I guess what I'm trying to get you to see is the prison you're in is locked on the inside.

• 50:36Dr. John Delony?

  And there's not a move you make without consequence. If you bring it up yet again, you're gonna be mad at yourself because you swore yourself last time, "I'm not bringing this up anymore." He has to start doing it.

• 50:50Dr. John Delony?

  And like the old Dr. Phil line.

• 50:54Dr. John Delony?

  "You wanna be right, or you wanna be married?"

• 51:00Dr. John Delony?

  "I'm gonna bring it up one last time."

• 51:04Dr. John Delony?

  Or letting him know, "I'm not bringing this up anymore. I'm tired of being lonely, and so I'm gonna go find some friends, and we're gonna go do life. I'd love for you to join me."

• 51:15Dr. John Delony?

  My bigger concern right now is your three kids are absorbing, "This is what marriage is."

• 51:21Speaker 00

  Yep. This is what marriage is. This is what people look like.

• 51:24Dr. John Delony?

  This is what love looks like. This is what husbands who go to the ends of the earth for their wives look like. This is what... And instead, they're getting like, "This is what it feels like when mom gives up." "This is what it feels like when dad quits."

• 51:39Dr. John Delony?

  And peace, keeping the peace in a household feels like electricity for a child. They feel it.

• 51:51Dr. John Delony?

  And I hope you hear me not dumping all of this back on you. I just want you to hold. You're the only one. Your husband clearly doesn't want to make another move. He kind of likes the way his life is. He gets to do whatever he wants, thinks how he wants. He doesn't have any responsibilities and the life just keeps going on. And also I bet he's miserable in his own skin. Is that fair?

• 52:11Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 52:13Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. I mean, you said it when you called. You knew my answer. There's nothing you can do. You can't, there's not a thing you haven't said. Other than maybe I love you till the end of time and I'm never gonna leave you. And the day you want to start having joy in your life, I'll be right here. But what I want you to do, if that's your decision, I want you to make peace with it. Because right now you're at war in your own body.

• 52:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, um, I think, I think the biggest thing that is at war at the moment is, um, this is the first year ever in my life when leaving came up as an actual thing that I wanted.

• 53:20Dr. John Delony?

  Um. How'd it go?

• 53:29Speaker 00

  Uh, what do you mean?

• 53:31Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, when you brought it up, did you put it on the table and tell him? That you're considering leaving?

• 53:35Speaker 00

  Oh, no. No.

• 53:36Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Can I tell you? He knows, he can feel it.

• 53:41Speaker 00

  He knows, okay. So the thing is, I wasn't considering leaving. It's, I want to. I do want to, but I won't. And if he doesn't know that about me after 17 years, I don't, I'm at, like, I'm at the, I feel like I've fallen off the rope. I'm not even at the end of the rope anymore. I've fallen off the rope as to how to, how to get him to believe me. That.

• 54:17Speaker 00

  My loyalty has nothing to do with how I feel.

• 54:25Speaker 00

  And that's a comfort to me. That would be a comfort to me.

• 54:28Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, but you're not just, you're not underwater in depression when your feelings weigh so heavy that they are immobilizing.

• 54:36Speaker 00

  I, um, I guess maybe not as bad as him.

• 54:52Dr. John Delony?

  Are you scared to hurt this guy?

• 54:53Speaker 00

  I feel like the only reason why I'm not immobilized, why I can't, why I don't come home and be catatonic some days like he does is because I don't have, I don't have that luxury.

• 55:07Dr. John Delony?

  That's right. That's right. And I hear this from mothers all over the country when people are like, "How'd you, how'd you do it?" And you're like, "I have to." Like, there's, there's no way to explain it. I've got three kids who have to eat.

• 55:21Dr. John Delony?

  And to quote Henry Cloud, "What you, what your husband needs is some problems."

• 55:27Dr. John Delony?

  He needs to know his laundry's just not going to magically appear, that his kids don't just magically come home and have every one of their needs taken care of while he sits there and just vegges out. It may be that your husband needs some problems that aren't just in his head, but that are in reality. So he'll stand up on his own two feet and begin to get his feet underneath him. It's a decade and a half. Something's got to change. And if nothing changes, nothing's going to change.

• 55:52Dr. John Delony?

  But I can't stress this enough. You've got to go find a therapist in your local area and sit down and talk to somebody.

• 55:59Dr. John Delony?

  Because I think your trend line is not great either.

• 56:05Dr. John Delony?

  But the prison you're in is locked from the inside and I want you to turn the key, and I know it's scary out there, but I want you to turn the key and take a step out. Confront that reality.

• 56:16Dr. John Delony?

  Go get them. We'll be right back.

• 56:20Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's talk about Hallow, the number one prayer and meditation app in the world. It's officially Lent, which are the 40 days leading up to Good Friday and Easter. And Lent is when Christians all over the world commit to a season of fasting from all sorts of things, and they commit themselves to reconnection and remembering prayer and meditation. Right now, Hallow has a challenge going on called "The Way." It's meant to reflect living the way of Jesus, and that means doing hard things that lead to peace, joy, and healing over time. Throughout the way, you'll get to hear some incredible stories from people like Jonathan Rumi of The Chosen, Chris Pratt, and Mark Wahlberg, and you'll also be invited to participate in experiencing life change yourself. Plus, you can check out Hallow's Lent Challenge for Kids. It's called "The Little Way."

• 57:05Dr. John Delony?

  It's a fun, meaningful adventure for the whole family, as y'all will follow along with two kids learning to live out gratitude every day. And this is just a tiny bit of what Hallow offers. Hallow has an enormous catalog of music, guided prayers, meditations, and more. And when you sign up at hallow.com/daloney, you'll get three months for free. That means you're covered through the entire Lent season and beyond. Go check out Hallow at hallow.com/daloney. That's Hallow, H-A-L-L-O-W, dot com slash daloney for three months for free.

• 57:40Dr. John Delony?

  All right, we're back. We've got a money and marriage question. Let it rip.

• 57:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, so this one is, "How can I be more intentional about adding more fun and lightness into our marriage?"

• 57:50Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, dude.

• 57:52Dr. John Delony?

  Man, I love that question. One of the things that every marriage researcher talks about, Esther Perel, the Gottmans, everybody talks about is, "We have such a ROI'd, work-centric world that we do, every action we take has to have a benefit to it. We exercise so we can. We do this so we can." I even talk about it, like, "I work out now so that when I'm 90, I can roll around with my grandkids," right? Like, everything is...

• 58:23Dr. John Delony?

  Is so ROI oriented. And dude, we have sucked the joy out of being alive. Fun. Just fun. We've lost fun. So what are some ways to like in couples all over the country? They reach out, dude. They've recognized this. Our house functions so well. Our finances are getting back on track. We, we put sex on the calendar. We have it 2.1 times a week. We, all the things. Dude, we don't have any fun in our house. We just don't have any fun. So the only word I can give you is practice. And I know it sounds dumb to practice fun, but you gotta practice fun. What does that mean? Sometimes let the kids stay up too late.

• 59:03Dr. John Delony?

  Sometimes fill up a bucket of water balloons and just drill your kids when they get, get off the bus. Just, just unload on them, you and your spouse. Sometimes, um, the dinner's halfway being done and you're like, I don't want to eat this tonight. Just order pizza. Sometimes turn all the music up on Spotify as loud as it will go and just have a dance off. Sometimes, um, play spin the bottle with your husband or wife. Uh, that might not even be fun. Play truth or dare, the John Deloney erotic envelope system. Just come up with five things you want to try. Five things they want to try. And then you just agree to pull one up and you won't judge what's on that card. You're just going to be curious about it, even if you don't even understand the physics and geometry of whatever they put on that.

• 59:46Dr. John Delony?

  Like, I don't know how this is physically possible to try, but I'm, I'm only here about it. Like choose curiosity, choose fun and inject some things in there. In my house, um, here's some, some things we've done. My wife with her dream, her dream is to be in bed by nine o'clock every night. Like just dream. And she hears the next morning when I'm talking about how hilarious a comedian was. So last year she put on the calendar, I'm going to go to this many live comedy shows. John, you curate it for me. Um, and she knows, I, I know the kind of humor she likes and I especially know the kind of humor she doesn't like. So I curated them specifically. But when somebody was coming to town, I was like, you gotta go to this one. And dude, we laughed our heads off.

• 1:00:30Dr. John Delony?

  I, she put on the calendar, I will go to some concerts. That means I'm going to be out till midnight or 1:00 AM. And dude, we went and hung out with Avett brothers. We went and hung out with Frank Turner. We went and hung out with some of our heroes and it was awesome. And on the other side, I committed.

• 1:00:46Dr. John Delony?

  I'm gonna, on certain nights, I'm gonna go to bed 9:30. I'm just gonna go to bed early. And then lo and behold, I sleep all night. I wake up feeling like a million bucks. The mornings are full of laughter, instead of me being all grumpy and mainlining coffee. Like, it, it, it's just a, phoom. We have a wrestling mat in our living room, so me and my daughter can just literally go Karate Kid 3 as often as we can. My son and I are always making jokes, making jokes. So it's just a choice to, I'm gonna release my grip a little bit on routine, release my grip a little bit on, everything's gotta be tucked in. Release my grip on, my hair's gotta be just perfect. And instead, I'm gonna focus on laughter, fun, play, joy, and whatever that means to your house, knock your lights out. It might even mean when your kid's playing Minecraft, that you go in the other room and log in on a separate account,

• 1:01:31Dr. John Delony?

  and you just attack, right? I don't know what that means in your house, but let it, can you attack somebody on a Roblox? I don't even, I don't know. I'm not into things on it. Yeah, the two nerds in the booth are like, absolutely. I don't know, I mean, that'd be funny if your dad suddenly had a secret Fortnite account and like attacked you.

• 1:01:51Speaker 04

  Oh, that'd be fantastic, yeah.

• 1:01:53Dr. John Delony?

  And then it's like, by the way, like, stop wearing my underwear. I don't know, like something dude funny to say to your kid, I don't know. I guess if your kid's wearing your underwear, you got other issues, but, um, yeah, I, I don't know. It, it's, it literally is a mind shift. That, yes, routine is great, and going to bed about the same time every night is good. And also, good god, order a pizza and stay up too late dancing. Um, here's one last thing I'll leave you with.

• 1:02:19Dr. John Delony?

  Ask yourself, is this a funeral speech moment? And here's what I mean by that. Um, I was in Walgreens a year or so ago. My wife started this tradition that on the last day of school, we hide and we attack the kids with, uh, water balloons. And it's become a funny thing, like one year, my son was on the roof of like our small, like, it, it's become like World War III, and it's super, super fun. Um, and they get me, sometimes we've snuck up and got my wife, it's, it's, the whole thing's just chaos. Um, I was in Walgreens and I was getting some medicine or something, and I saw a thing of like a hundred water balloons. And I just grabbed it, because I thought, that's gonna be funny one day.

• 1:03:03Dr. John Delony?

  And something was going on, and we needed to get to bed or whatever, and I'd filled up, long story short, I remember saying, if I throw all these balloons right now, I think it was in the house, it might have been in the house. If I throw these right now, they will tell this story at my funeral. Like, remember that one time, not that dad got us to bed on time again, but do you remember that time goofball dad started throwing water balloons or snowballs, whatever was in the house? And so sometimes I ask myself, will they tell this story at my funeral? Because if so, I'm gonna, I'm gonna let it rip. Now, that's not always a good thing, but it's one of those just, this isn't a good idea on a Tuesday night? Yeah, but they'll tell the story one day. So again, I love that question. Let's return our lives and our homes and our marriages and our relationship with our kids.

• 1:03:48Dr. John Delony?

  Yes, they gotta get their math homework turned in, but can we all start looking for a little more fun? Playfulness, joy, laughter? Go get them and don't play Fortnite, God help you. Love you all, bye.