Pod Insights Modern Wisdom How to Signal that You’re an Attractive Guy - Blaine Anderson About this episode Blaine Anderson is a dating coach, a speaker and a YouTuber.
Expect to learn how women want to be approached, how to overcome approach anxiety, the most important factors for designing the perfect online dating profile, the best strategies to text women well, what are the biggest red flags to watch out for on a first date, whether it's okay to approach women in the gym, the traits women actually care about in men and much more...
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00:00 Can Women Give Men Dating Advice?
01:42 Do Women Want to Make the First Move?
07:37 How Common is Male Approach Anxiety?
14:05 Opening Lines That Actually Work
21:19 How Can Men Stand Out?
24:19 Best Online Dating Platforms
27:10 Designing the Perfect Profile
39:16 How to Text More Effectively
44:10 Best Practices for First Dates
53:07 Biggest Red Flags on Dates
1:01:00 Good Places to Approach Women At
1:13:21 Is Fear of Creepiness Holding Men Back?
1:20:08 Tips for Being More Charismatic
1:25:40 Are Men Struggling With Loneliness?
1:31:51 How Can Hopeless Guys Turn it Around?
1:42:12 Do Smart Guys Struggle With Dating?
1:49:29 Traits That Women Prioritise
1:55:47 Where to Find Blaine
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Transcript 23,549 words · 2 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Chris Williamson? How do you describe what you do?
0:01 Speaker 01 I am a dating coach for men, so I help men build confidence, learn to authentically market themselves, create chemistry, flirt, and generally attract quality women they are excited about.
0:14 Chris Williamson? How many times a day do you hear the sentence, "Why would I ask a fish about how to fish?"
0:19 Speaker 01 I tend to avoid my comment section on Instagram, so not very many.
0:23 Chris Williamson? You know what I mean. There is a sort of a big trope on the internet of men saying, "Women can't teach men about how to pick up women."
0:29 Speaker 01 Yeah, and what I would say to that is, that's like saying, "A woman can't give good advice." I'm not saying I'm the only one qualified to give this advice, but me not having a Y chromosome doesn't disqualify me from being able to describe what women want. In fact, some might argue, including myself, it makes me more equipped to speak to that. Also, to be honest, the type of guy who says that isn't the type of guy I work with. That's not the type of guy who comes to me for my advice, and that's okay with me.
0:59 Chris Williamson? It's probably somebody who generally isn't that open to looking to change themselves in any case.
1:06 Speaker 01 Yeah, and they're usually, generalizing here, more inclined to blame women for their problems, or think the system is rigged, and that women have it easy. And really, when I hear a guy say, "Women have it so much easier," that tells me that they really just don't have empathy for women. I'm not saying men have it harder or easier, both are struggling.
1:25 Chris Williamson? Yeah, but also, I suppose, if you're a guy who, just from ground floor, doesn't have any empathy for women, it probably is not fantastic for your dating prospects long term.
1:36 Speaker 01 Absolutely. And I wouldn't be the right person to help them work through that.
1:42 Chris Williamson? A lot of effort to get one date. Bumble app makes women's first move easier. "In the end, it was the data that killed me," says Penny about her decision to leave the dating app Bumble. "If she opened the app, she might receive 100 likes, 25% of which she might be interested in. She would look at their profiles and write an individualized message. A few would respond, perhaps one would result in a date." That's a lot of effort to get one date, she says. It's exhausting. Bumble billed as the feminist Tinder when it launched in 2014. This week announced it was taking action to relieve The administrative burden on its female users, it has given them the option of firing off a short pre-written question to potential dates, rather than a carefully crafted missive, after 70% of its female users said that they were becoming burned out.
2:23 Chris Williamson? While it is not ditching the requirement for women to make the first move, its female users can now send a template question, such as what book or film changed the way you think, using the site's opening moves feature. What do you think about this?
2:35 Speaker 01 So I'm supportive of it, but I don't find it surprising. This really maps to the dynamics, male-female approach dynamics that we see in person, which is that the responsibility is on the man to approach and start the conversation with a woman. It's not generally the woman who is the one needing to approach or start the conversation. But what I would say is this woman who says she was writing carefully crafted messages is in the minority. As someone who has looked at thousands of Bumble conversations, women generally send zero effort, one-word responses like hi. And then the onus would still fall on the man to then come up with a creative or interesting conversation and steer that towards a date.
3:19 Speaker 01 So I feel like previously, okay, women were starting the conversation, but in name only.
3:25 Chris Williamson? Hmm. I think there's a good bit of pushback from guys about this, and I can understand why, that basically they now feel like, hang on, women, you said that you wanted an app that allowed you to make the first move, which is what we've had to do for all of human history. And then being given that preference, privilege, request, whatever it is that you wanted, you're now saying that, oh, it's too arduous, even though you can copy and paste a message, you can use keyboard shortcuts on iPhone to make it easier to do. And it's now been made even more easy so that there's pre-written template questions that you can just press a button to send to me, which means it is first move in name only.
4:01 Speaker 01 Yeah.
4:01 Chris Williamson? And I think it probably feels, many guys that are dating will feel indignant, where it's like, this is what it's like for me all the time, not just on this one app.
4:11 Speaker 01 Yeah. And Unfortunately, that's just the reality of dating. The man is expected to be the pursuer. And you can either, you know, not to say you were complaining about that, but complain about that, or you can learn how to approach and appropriately attract women. And you can trace that back to evolutionary biology. You know, the man is, and across most species, the male is the pursuer. Sperm are much more abundant than eggs. Eggs are the scarcer resource. Women become the chooser upfront.
4:41 Chris Williamson? There's some interesting species where the reverse is the case. There's some birds, I think in some spiders, it's the same too. And the male is the choosier one. Quite rightly, the burden sort of switches and men are the ones that get to choose, or the males are the ones that get to choose. But yeah, I think, you know, guys being the protagonists and women being the gatekeepers or the receivers in whatever way, anybody that is, like, people realize this. What are you hearing? Or what is it that women say about their desire to initiate versus their desire to be pursued? What have you learned there?
5:19 Speaker 01 So women want to be approached more and pursued more. At least in, from what I see in my personal experience and my relationships with women and what I hear. And then I also conducted some informal survey data of 13,000 women in the US and the UK. 97% said they would rather meet their partner in person than online. And 95% said they wish they were approached more often by men in real life. 95% of anything is crazy. I'm not sure 95% of people would agree the sky is blue if you asked them. And women are saying in hordes, basically, like, hey, I want to meet a guy offline and like, I want guys to approach me. And, you know, I hear guys saying, well, women are rude when I approach them,
6:04 Speaker 01 or it doesn't work out. And the reality is, is it's a numbers game. Like, there are some women who don't want to be approached. And there are even more women who already have a partner or aren't interested in men or don't like you for whatever reason that you can't control. But that is out of your control. If you learn to approach appropriately, you're not going to be pepper sprayed or arrested or have some terrible thing happen if you talk to a woman in real life.
6:31 Chris Williamson? Yeah, your sample was 13,000 single women in the US and the UK. I'm not sure what the age cohort was, but let's say that 50% of women are in a relationship, 50% are single. That actually turns 95% into 47 and a half percent.
6:47 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:47 Chris Williamson? So for the guys that say, I've tried to approach women. What's the likelihood that each time I do it, it's one of the 5%? It's like, mm, yeah, but you're, you don't know unless they've got a green badge that says, yes, I'm single. You're not actually pre-selecting.
7:00 Speaker 01 Exactly. So you're, it is, you just have to approach more often. And I get it. It's hard. It can be anxiety inducing. You're oftentimes facing rejection. And that is just what has been happening for all of human history. And I think we have become complicit with expecting things to be delivered to us. You can press a button on your phone and have any meal you want delivered to your door. All of your groceries come to your door. Anything you want to watch, you can press a button and watch that at that time. And I'm not anti-technology, but technology has made people lazy and expect to always get what they want when they want it. And dating and mating is not that way.
7:36 Chris Williamson? Is this male approach anxiety the biggest problem that guys come to you with?
7:42 Speaker 01 It is one of them, absolutely. And it's not even necessarily that they come to me and say, hey, I have approach anxiety and I want to get over it. It's that they don't have the dating life they want and they don't even necessarily draw the conclusion, oh, I'm not approaching anybody, when that is one of the very big problems. So I really encourage, I do this with all of my clients. And any guys out there who are listening are like, oh, I'm like not meeting women. Keep an approach journal. I challenge you, a note on your phone, a real journal, write down every time you talk to a woman. And you don't have to ask for her phone number. You shouldn't ask for her phone number or ask her out if the conversation doesn't feel like it warrants that. But just how many times you're actually talking to women?
8:24 Speaker 01 And I bet you will be shocked at how few it is.
8:28 Chris Williamson? So this is the equivalent of using MyFitnessPal to track your calories. And you're saying, dude, I'm only eating, I promise you, I'm only eating 1,500 calories. And you say, let's track it for a week. And you go, ah, fuck, it was 2,200.
8:39 Speaker 01 Yes.
8:39 Chris Williamson? I'm approaching 10, 15 women a week.
8:43 Chris Williamson? Oh, it was one.
8:44 Speaker 01 Maybe, maybe. And I think part of that is because you have access to social media, to OnlyFans, and so you're seeing all of these beautiful women and it tricks you into thinking like, surely I'm interacting with women. I see women all the time. Maybe you're even DMing some or interacting with them on OnlyFans. That doesn't count. That is not the same as walking up to a woman in the grocery store, at a yoga class, in a park, and striking up a conversation.
9:11 Chris Williamson? What is your best advice for men to overcome approach anxiety?
9:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, so I actually have an entire mini course on this because I have so many, I get so many questions about it. My biggest piece of advice is take the pressure off. So don't think like, oh, I need to approach and my goal here is to get a phone number. No, your goal is to connect with another human being. So you shouldn't just be approaching attractive women who you're interested in dating. Approach humans, people generally, women generally, of all ages, and talk to them. And get really good at that. And then once you feel comfortable with that, it will feel more natural to approach a woman who you do find attractive and have a good conversation. And then maybe you do ask for her phone number. But going from sitting on your couch and swiping to approaching a 10, yeah, that's really scary. So start small. Start with baby steps.
10:02 Chris Williamson? Charlie Hoopert from Charisma on Command's got a good piece of advice where he says flirt with the world. He uses Russell Brand as the example of this. And, you know, Russell Brand in his Lothario era 10, 15 years ago, he's doing this interview. And what is it that someone asks him the question, I've heard that you're a sex addict. Is that right? And he says, well, I don't know if it's right, but it's definitely enjoyable. And you just think like he's always playing this sort of flirtatious game. He's touching them like, I mean, it's Russell Brand and he also may turn out to be a sex criminal. We don't know about that. So, you know, don't, don't take your dating cues from Russell Brand. But I, the sentiment I think is true, which is, and I know this, you know, I'm recently
10:41 Chris Williamson? single and you go from being, you know, not at all concerned with you, the way that you come across to women. And then
10:53 Chris Williamson? You'd start to sort of have to re kickstart this engine of, oh, God, okay, well, I need to actually be a little bit more playful here, supposed to just the transactional sort of autist that you were previously.
11:02 Speaker 01 Mm hmm. Absolutely. I love the flirt with the world because it's so true. And we are so conditioned. Everyone is in their phone, like, eyes down, looking at their phone, moving through the world with their headphones in. And you can't control if everyone else has their headphones in. You can't control anyone else's, you know, reaction to anything. What you can control is if you're the type of person who doesn't have their headphones in, who makes eye contact, who smiles, who says hello. I was picking up pizza the other day and I was waiting in the shop and this guy walks in with noise cancelling headphones on, like, over the ear headphones, walks up to the counter, doesn't take off his headphones, just, and the girl's like, really nice. She's this cute girl. He's roughly the same age. She's, hey, how can I help you? And he just turns and holds his phone out at her. And
11:47 Speaker 01 she's like, oh, okay, it'll be right up. Doesn't say anything, puts it back in his pocket and turns away. And I was like, like, I don't care if you're not single. Like, who knows? Maybe he's gay. Maybe he's not interested. It doesn't matter. You are not engaging with the world around you at all. It was really sad to see.
12:03 Chris Williamson? That's interesting. Okay, so reduce some of the pressure.
12:08 Speaker 01 Mm hmm.
12:08 Chris Williamson? Flirt with the world.
12:09 Speaker 01 Mm hmm.
12:10 Chris Williamson? Give me a third one. What else?
12:11 Speaker 01 Take, just don't try and overcomplicate things. You don't have to have this witty, flirty line that she's never heard before. You can keep it really simple. If your mind goes blank, walk up to her and say, hey, I noticed you from over there and I wanted to come say hello. I wanted to introduce myself. I thought you were cute. Something super simple, just, you caught my eye and I'd kick myself later if I didn't say hello, is fine. It doesn't mean she's going to want to date you. Doesn't even mean she's going to want to talk to you. But if you do that and you have good posture and you have eye contact and you're smiling, you've put your best foot forward and you've done everything you can.
12:48 Chris Williamson? What are the other things, the nonverbals?
12:50 Speaker 01 Oh, nonverbal is very important. So this can be our fourth thing. If you're walking up and you've already rejected yourself, your shoulders are, you know, bent in, you're looking, you're looking down, looking around. You're telling her that you aren't worthy. So you need to walk up, shoulders back, eye contact. As you're walking over to her, look for eye contact. Actually, backing up from here, getting eye contact from a woman is the gold standard for, before you approach. So it's not a requirement. You don't have to have made eye contact. But if you can catch her eye and give her a smile, that is a green light and a much, it's a great place to start from with your approach. So you're not totally taking her by surprise. You've done a little pre-qualifying.
13:35 Speaker 01 And likewise, if you make eye contact and she quickly looks away and turns her back to you, maybe don't approach. Like, it just, it might not be a viable option. So that can be a good way to pre-qualify them. Then when you do walk up, shoulders back, head up, smile, eye contact. It feels a little awkward. It absolutely does. And that's okay. And then, you know, speak with confidence. Don't speak too fast. Slow it down and go for it. And you're gonna hear no a lot.
14:05 Chris Williamson? You mentioned a couple of opening lines then. What, some canned openers that the super nervous guy that's gonna go out and try this weekend, a couple of times to do this. What are some of your favorite opening lines?
14:16 Speaker 01 Okay, like I said, keep it really simple unless something comes to you that you're like, oh, this really makes sense. So first, look for a few things. What's she holding? What's she doing? What's she wearing? Any of those things can be things to comment on. Maybe she's holding a yoga mat. So you can use that as a conversation starter. Maybe she's holding a cup of coffee or, you know, wearing some really unique Doc Martens or hat. Those are all things you can comment on. So leveraging that is one option. So you might say something like, hey, I noticed you from over there. Those are sick sneakers. I'm a sneaker head myself. Where did you get those? Or how long have you had them? When did those drop? That's an example of using something she's holding, doing, wearing as a jumping off point.
15:00 Speaker 01 If you, your mind is blank, she's not holding, doing, wearing, anything you can comment on, then going back to just like, hey, I saw you from over there and I wanted to come over and introduce myself. My name's Blaine. Or, hey, I saw you from over there and I thought you were really cute and I'd kick myself later if I didn't say hello. How's your night going? Simple.
15:21 Chris Williamson? What about the next step after that? Because I think that a lot of guys, even if they've got some canned openers, what she's doing, wearing.
15:30 Speaker 01 Holding.
15:30 Chris Williamson? Holding. If they get through that, I think the, oh, how do I now exit the conversation in a non awkward way?
15:39 Speaker 01 Yeah.
15:39 Chris Williamson? Because, you know, the peak end rule in psychology suggests that the most emotionally intense and the final emotional moment are the two that are the most important of any event. I wonder how many guys might actually be able to overcome their approach anxiety, but their exit pain is so high that it actually clouds their memory of the approach. It's like the approach was fine.
16:01 Speaker 01 Yeah.
16:01 Chris Williamson? But the way that you, okay, I'll go now.
16:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
16:06 Chris Williamson? This sort of weird awkward, like a high five view or something, you know what I mean? Fist bump.
16:09 Speaker 01 Yeah. So it depends on where you're meeting her, of course. So let's say you're at a bar and you go up, you use that, hey, I thought you were really cute. So I wanted to introduce myself.
16:18 Chris Williamson? Cute, pretty, beautiful, what's the word?
16:21 Speaker 01 You can use any of those, whatever.
16:23 Chris Williamson? Yeah, there's a lot of, a lot of dudes listening that are like, fucking gotta get this down. Like with OCD.
16:27 Speaker 01 Whatever feels authentic to you, because what you don't want is to sound like you're using someone else's lines. That's why I'm hesitant to even say, use this verbatim. It's like, I kind of throw out a few things and then make your own off of that and just keep it simple, because the most important thing is it sounds authentic to you and not like you're reading a script.
16:46 Chris Williamson? That's a, just to comment on that, it's so right. I had a guy here, Hamza, about maybe six weeks ago, something like that. And he was talking about how he's like the epicenter of a lot of young men advice online. And he had started to ask himself the question of, why do I dress the way that I do? Why do I sit the way I do? Why do I walk the way I do? Why do I talk the way I do? Cause he's absorbed so much advice online that he's trying to model himself as the super masculine, alpha Chad, high value guy thing. And it's got to the point where he's got Stockholm syndrome from the stuff that he's learned, imbibed so much of it that he has no idea where the advice finishes and he begins.
17:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
17:29 Chris Williamson? And I think that that's a really good point, that I think what guys want is, okay, just give me a set of rules ish, but don't turn me into an actor.
17:39 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah. And that's why I say when people ask what I do, I'm teaching men to authentically market themselves. I'm not teaching them to. Be the cookie cutter Ken doll that a woman wants because that's not going to work. Even if you are able to, you know, become this persona that you think is going to attract women. And maybe it starts working at first and women are attracted to you. You're either having to hold up that persona forever and that's not your authentic self. So life is going to suck or you slowly become yourself and then you're not the woman. You're not the person that the woman initially fell for because it wasn't really you.
18:13 Chris Williamson? Well, and third option, the women who would have genuinely liked you for being you were the ones that pass you by.
18:18 Speaker 01 Yes, because you're not being yourself. So that's the most important thing with everything when it comes to dating. Yes, we can improve the product, like there are things you should do to be a better you. And we can talk more about that because building a life that you are genuinely proud of is a very important part of being successful dating. But then you also need to be able to market that life. You need to be able to talk to women in a way that they can see that. That they see that you have a genuinely awesome life that they would want to be a part of.
18:48 Chris Williamson? That's so interesting. So I've got it in my head. The original world that we had when Neil Strauss, who wrote the game, came up and did pick up. What that was, was exclusive marketing. And I think that the world, much of the world of men's online dating at the moment, in the more sort of nihilistic black pill side, is exclusive lifestyle, i.e. one side said, it doesn't matter what your life is. If you market yourself well, you'll be successful in dating. The current world in some corners says, it doesn't matter what your marketing is. Your lifestyle is fucked and you're never going to get, you're never going to get a girlfriend. So I think that balancing these two, which is you need to be as authentic as possible and actually raise up you as a person.
19:28 Chris Williamson? To be someone that women want to date, whilst also holding in your hands, there's better and worse ways to do that.
19:34 Speaker 01 Yes, yes, exactly. It's the product and the market and marketing and how you put them together and present yourself to women. And it's even more important to be able to market yourself well today in a world with things like online dating and social media where women's options have quadrupled, you know, or 100xed. And so you have to be able to stand out. The challenge for men dating is how do I stand out? So women give me a shot and notice me. Where the challenge for women is how do I tell who's actually going to be a good partner between the smoke and the noise?
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21:20 Speaker 01 I think that's the state.
21:21 Chris Williamson? Yeah.
21:22 Speaker 01 Um, so it depends where they're trying to meet women. For example, online, if you have, if you have anything short of an A plus dating profile, you're not going to get matches. And the reality is, even if you have an A plus dating profile, but you have some other characteristics that create, make online dating challenging for you, you still aren't going to get matches. So, but there are things to do to improve your online dating game. And then in terms of offline, so much goes into it. You know, what you look like, that is part of it. If you look like a slob, you could be a really nice, like a great guy. You could be confident, truly. You could be successful. You could be charismatic. You could be funny. But if you look like a slob, women are going to look past you. And so you have to take care of yourself. Are you in shape?
22:08 Speaker 01 Do you dress well? Do you have good hygiene? That's like one part of the outside. Then also, how you talk about yourself is going to be part of how you market yourself. Do you go on a date and just say like, "Yeah, work's okay. I'm an accountant. Yeah, yeah, you know, I go to nine to five. I get to work remote on Fridays. It's cool." Or do you say, "I work for an accounting firm that helps dogs find new homes and it is, I'm so passionate about it because X, Y, and Z. I love the people I work with and I'm expecting to move into XYZ position in a year." It's not that you're bragging, it's that you are showing that you have a trajectory that she wants to be a part of and that she finds impressive.
22:49 Speaker 01 And again, I want to be clear because it's some guys go into dates thinking, "Oh, I need to impress her." That is not the right mindset for a date. It's, "Okay, I want to be my authentic best self and see if there is a mutual connection here."
23:02 Chris Williamson? What did you mean when you talked about improving your life, your quality of life to make you more
23:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
23:08 Chris Williamson? easily marketable and attractive to women?
23:10 Speaker 01 So, one of the biggest mistakes I see men make is, "Oh, I really want to go on this trip to Italy, but I'd rather wait until I had a girlfriend to do it with." They're putting their life on hold to live their best life until they have a woman to enjoy it with because they would rather do it when they have a girlfriend. And that is a mistake. You need to build your best life so you have the ability to meet that woman that you're interested in. First of all, you're not going to meet a woman sitting at home. And second of all, the type of woman that you are interested in dating, what are you going to talk to her on a date about if you haven't built that life already? So you should have hobbies. These are things you're going to connect with her about. It doesn't mean she has to do the same hobbies as well, but are you passionate about them?
23:52 Speaker 01 Are you spending your time doing things that you enjoy and help make you a better person? Or are you sitting at home playing video games on the couch? Which sounds more attractive? You just crushed a pickleball tournament or started making ceramics? Or like you just beat whatever level in World of Warcraft? Like, there is a difference.
24:12 Chris Williamson? There's the niche of women out there who want the World of Warcraft guide, but I imagine that the competition for those women is also pretty high.
24:19 Chris Williamson? Let's get back to online dating. In your opinion, what are the best online dating platforms?
24:25 Speaker 01 Which apps?
24:26 Chris Williamson? Yeah.
24:27 Speaker 01 So any of the ones that have the biggest user base. So that's generally Hinge and Bumble. Those are the ones I recommend for my clients. The intent is usually higher on those apps. Tinder definitely has the higher highest user base, but it also has a ton of spam and lower intent that you have to filter through.
24:46 Chris Williamson? What do you mean when you say intent?
24:47 Speaker 01 So I've found that from working with clients, that a lot of the people on Tinder might just be there for hookups, might be soliciting sex, where intention behind finding a relationship or at least going on legitimate dates that aren't in exchange for money happens more on Hinge and Bumble. And then of those two, it's really dependent on where you live. So you need to oftentimes try both and see where you find your success. So I have found that clients who are based in Austin, where Bumble is headquartered, really like Bumble. And they have like more women that they connect with via Bumble. Where just as an example, I had a client in Seattle who was like, I don't get any matches on Bumble. Doesn't seem like there's any women there. I like Hinge more. So it does take some trial and error.
25:33 Speaker 01 And if you live someplace remote, it might be Hinge, or it might, excuse me, it might be Tinder for you just from a sheer number of women on the app standpoint. So of those three, I recommend people try them and see what works for them.
25:45 Chris Williamson? I got banned from Hinge for impersonating myself.
25:49 Speaker 01 You're the second person, no, you know, who told me that? Dan.
25:53 Chris Williamson? Dan, who? Did he?
25:54 Speaker 01 From on Bumble, his was Bumble. He got banned for impersonating himself there.
25:58 Chris Williamson? James Smith, my business partner in New Tonic, got banned on Hinge for impersonating himself as well. Well, I'd been, I'd been in a relationship for three and a half years. And there was a deadline. I had to submit my proof of identification. But I can't even remember using Hinge. And it was 20, like the end of 2021, like two, three years ago. And I, I mean, I swing in a miss for me on that. But yeah, um, I had a lot of friends, definitely the guys that I speak to, at least the guys that are in Austin, say that Hinge for them is.
26:26 Speaker 01 The best.
26:27 Chris Williamson? Yeah, by far the best, they say.
26:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, it can be either.
26:30 Chris Williamson? What about Raya, The League?
26:33 Speaker 01 So these I actually have clients have success with as well. Raya, the problem is I think it's a lot of looking. It's people on Raya to see who else is there and swipe where I feel like the actual going on the date happens less, just anecdotally, but from the many, many clients who I have spoken to and also my friends. But I don't know, for someone like you, as a public figure, who has a following, there are more people in that bucket on Raya. But you're also seeing people all over the world instead of just in your five mile radius.
27:07 Chris Williamson? Okay.
27:08 Speaker 01 So the numbers are smaller.
27:10 Chris Williamson? When it comes to designing an online dating profile, what should guys do? How do you design the perfect online dating profile?
27:16 Speaker 01 The number one thing, the most important thing, if you don't do anything else, is you need high quality photos. Not photos from five years ago of you on a boat, not a photo of you with Kobe Bryant in fifth grade, photos that are relevant and look like what you look like today. If she looks at your profile and is like, I'm not really sure what he looks like. It's an automatic no. So not-
27:41 Chris Williamson? Because there's too much variation between photos?
27:43 Speaker 01 Too much variation or too far away. You're wearing sunglasses. She just can't get a good sense quickly. And you need to remember, these women are looking at your profile. And I mean, maybe men look a little closer, but when women are looking at profiles, it's like one and done. You have about one second to make a good impression. So that first photo needs to be clear. Not quite a headshot. We're not talking LinkedIn headshot, but it needs to be your face. I like it when you're looking into the camera. It feels like you're looking at her then. It creates more familiarity. And that's the most important for the first photo. As you go down, you have opportunities to have other types of photos. You don't want six headshot type photos. Now you need to start incorporating a full body shot. You need one of those. And then you need what I call filler photos that are more lifestyle.
28:27 Speaker 01 So showcase how you spend your time. If every photo is a headshot of you, then it doesn't tell her anything about you as a person. Do you like to ski? Have a skiing photo. Wakeboarding, traveling, with your dog, with your mom, whatever is important to your life.
28:44 Speaker 01 Use that in your profile and no photos with women who look like they could be your ex. I don't care if it's your girl, I don't care if it's your sister or your aunt. If she looks like she could be an ex-girlfriend, just skip it.
28:54 Chris Williamson? I've heard that guys who have photos with mixed groups, so girls in their photos, but maybe one at least.
29:02 Speaker 01 Yeah.
29:03 Chris Williamson? Uh, seem to have some success because it shows that they're not so weird that no woman would ever choose to hang out with them, even if they're just friends. Is that true?
29:09 Speaker 01 So I like a group photo and I'm not picky about if it's you and two guys or if it's you and a guy and a girl, a mix of people.
29:16 Chris Williamson? But you and a girl is a little bit of an amber flag.
29:18 Speaker 01 Like at a wedding, for example, I don't care if it's your sister, like it's a no. Yeah, it's just.
29:23 Chris Williamson? Unless it's obviously your mom, maybe?
29:24 Speaker 01 Yeah, if it's obviously your mom or your grandma, that's great. But you just don't want it to be like, is he using a photo of his ex here? Cause he didn't have more photos. And that's the mistake a lot of guys make when I look at their photos. It's, they didn't build this intentionally. They just found six photos they have happened to be in and those are the six photos they used. Not like, oh, these are six photos that showcase what I look like, how I spend my time and market me well.
29:51 Chris Williamson? What about selfies?
29:52 Speaker 01 No.
29:55 Speaker 01 So some selfies are okay, but I have learned that men are really bad at understanding what makes a good and bad selfie. So my blanket rule.
30:04 Chris Williamson? We never take them.
30:04 Speaker 01 My blanket rule is just no selfies until they need to make a dating app profile. Then all of a sudden they're in their car with their Ray-Bans on, like taking selfies. I'm like, no.
30:13 Chris Williamson? Okay, mirror photos?
30:14 Speaker 01 No, no, no.
30:16 Chris Williamson? Worse than selfie? Okay.
30:17 Speaker 01 Yeah, arguably worse than selfies.
30:19 Chris Williamson? Gym photos?
30:21 Speaker 01 Gym photos are hard to get right. That is the problem. I absolutely love the idea of showing that you are fit and active and that is part of your lifestyle. But gym photos usually are mirror selfies, which I don't like, or tend to look really staged. Like, why do you have your camera out at the gym? So instead, do you have a photo from when you did a Tough Mudder? Or you did, raced, uh, you were in a race or ran a marathon or hiked to the top of whatever mountain? That is going to be a better photo to highlight that part of yourself.
30:51 Chris Williamson? Something more lifestyle-y?
30:52 Speaker 01 Yes.
30:52 Chris Williamson? Okay. Is there anything else to say on photos yet?
30:57 Speaker 01 No, that covers it. I'd say kids in photos are something, is something I get asked about a lot.
31:01 Chris Williamson? Hmm.
31:03 Speaker 01 If you are like, you should say you have children and your dating app profile, if you have children, I think, you know, you are just delaying the inevitable if you're trying to hide it and then like drop it on someone later like, oh yeah, by the way, I have two kids and she doesn't want to date someone with kids, then you just wasted both of your
31:18 Chris Williamson? As opposed to the woman who does want to date someone who's maybe got kids.
31:21 Speaker 01 Yeah. So just put it in your profile. But if you don't have kids, I have clients who will want to do like nieces and nephews. It's just a little hard. It's a shaky road.
31:31 Chris Williamson? High risk, high risk strategy. Well, I always have this rule. It's so funny to me. When women either in online dating or on social media, if they ever post a photo that's them and one child, there's always this huge fucking disclaimer. It's like such a great time with my niece this Sunday. You know, it's like this big banner of something that's like, I'm still, I've still got fecundity here.
31:55 Speaker 01 Yeah. And that's what guys have to do if they want to use a photo with their niece or nephew. But I would say if like being an uncle is important to you, highlight that in your prompts and just like keep the kid photos off.
32:05 Chris Williamson? All right. Okay. Uh, moving down into bio description, other bits and pieces, what's the do's and don'ts?
32:12 Speaker 01 So I would say the prompts are the next more, most important part and really what you will see right after a photo.
32:17 Chris Williamson? What's prompts?
32:18 Speaker 01 A prompt or bio. So like for Hinge, for example, you have three prompts. You don't have a bio on Hinge.
32:23 Chris Williamson? Right. Well, I mean, it shows what I know.
32:24 Speaker 01 Yeah.
32:24 Chris Williamson? Fucking banned. Okay. Yeah. I say, so prompts, how do you get, let's do hinge first and then we can do bio after that.
32:30 Speaker 01 Yeah. So you're, you have prompts. They are giving you, so if you don't have hinge like you, the prompts will say things like, my ideal Sunday, my simple pleasures, one thing you should know about me. Your bio and prompts need to be lighthearted and fun. Your goal should be to be lightweight and make her smile. So this is not your resume. You don't need to tell her everything about you here and get all of your, you know, your alcalades out here. That's not what we're going for. And you're, this is also not a help wanted ad. You are not saying what you want from her. You can look at her profile to see. If she hits the things that you're looking for. So guys will say, oh, I really want a girl who's kind and likes to travel.
33:14 Speaker 01 It's like, okay, you're talking to every single woman on Hinge here. So not only should you not be speaking about what you're looking for, you should also be, uh, unique into what you say. So if you, what you're saying is what everybody else is saying, one thing you should know about me, I really like to travel. That's lame. Be more specific. Where do you like to travel? One thing you should know about me is every year I take a trip to Spain to buy dessert wines. Be as specific as possible. Details are what is going to help you stand out.
33:44 Chris Williamson? Why?
33:45 Speaker 01 Cause she's looking at 1,000 profiles. So why you from the other guy that she just swiped over? Who, maybe you're both kinda cute. You both look kinda fit. He says he likes burritos and you say you cook homemade dinner with your roommates every Sunday night and pick a new country to focus on. Like, that's much more interesting. That gives something that she's like, oh, that's cool. I want to know more about that. The point of your dating app profile is to get her to want to know more. And she's, if she wants to know more, she's gonna swipe right. She's gonna match with you. It's not to convince her that you're, you know, an alpha male. It's not to convince her that you are rich and are good at your job.
34:27 Chris Williamson? What about, uh, watch photos, car photos, house photos?
34:32 Speaker 01 So slippery slope here. What I would say is if you're flashing your Rolex or your Lambo and that's what you are leading with, who are you going to attract? You're going to attract a woman who prioritizes that over who you are as a man and your personality and your values. So if you're good with that, by all means, go for it. But if you are looking for an authentic, genuine connection and someone who really likes you for you. Then you're better off leading with those traits, your personality, your values, how you spend your time. And you just tend to look really try hard by putting the flashy photos.
35:11 Chris Williamson? I wonder how many, there'll be a ton of chicks listening. I wonder how many of them are just like, yes, yes, yeah, taken, taken, taken. Yeah.
35:19 Speaker 01 And it's, and well, I'll have guys who come to me and they're like, I've like never had a match online. And we, and then I'm like, what? You're like decent looking. Okay, let's do this. We make a profile and then they have more matches and they know what to do with, because the bar is really low.
35:31 Chris Williamson? Hmm. Cause so few men are optimizing that.
35:33 Speaker 01 Yes. They're just throwing up the selfie that they took in their car because they needed a sixth photo and saying that they like burritos and women are like, why would I go out with you? Like this is, you're not making me want to know more. You're not intriguing. And that's really what you're going for.
35:49 Chris Williamson? What about bio?
35:50 Speaker 01 So bio is similar to prompts. You want to hit all the same things. You want to be lighthearted. You want to make her smile. This is not a help wanted ad. So what can you say that helps you stand out a little bit from everybody else, intrigue her to want to know more about you? Don't overthink this, but it is worth spending a few hours developing prompts and bios. I tell my clients, spend an hour minimum on each prompt. You have three prompts. At least you should be spending an hour thinking about the word choice. And when I work with clients, I'm like, write 10 and I'll pick three or I'll, and I'll make them better. So we like really pick every single word that goes into it. But if you're out there doing it yourself, like you should be putting in the same amount of effort and run it by some girlfriends, run it by your sister.
36:31 Chris Williamson? Yeah. Does this suck? Is this okay?
36:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
36:33 Chris Williamson? Uh, yeah, I suppose it's so funny how much time I imagine guys spend swiping right and, and, and trying to get matches and stuff. You think that's you trying to do conversions on the backend. How long did you spend going and getting the photos? Cause presumably you could spend a week, get a friend or even pay somebody, be like, oh, there's 50 bucks. Like come and take a couple of photos of me. And what would be the difference in your conversions? What would be the difference in your effectiveness if you focused on the things that really matter as opposed to just kind of doing what you think is the urgent and going for the numbers game?
37:04 Speaker 01 Exactly. And a lot of guys cringe at this. I have almost all of my clients work with professional photographers. There is a whole industry out there for dating app photographers. Oh, absolutely not. It didn't even occur to me someone wouldn't know that because I'm so ingrained in it.
37:21 Chris Williamson? You're in the weeds.
37:21 Speaker 01 Yes, and it is so important because most guys aren't taking good photos of themselves, even with very detailed instructions, step by step, they still go out there and their photos kind of suck. And you can have some photos in your, you want some photos in your profile that are candid and organic and don't look professional, but having two professional shots that really showcase what you look like and have really nice backgrounds that are going to be bright and stand out can make all of the difference in the world and say it's such high ROI.
37:56 Chris Williamson? I suppose it's a low-key signal as well of kind of value. It's like, what's this guy do where he's got the professional photo? Oh, maybe he's, maybe this is a press shop for something that he's done. Maybe it's part of a project that he's in.
38:06 Speaker 01 And just that you care. You're putting in effort. You're helping her see who you are. You didn't just throw, like, sometimes guys will send me profiles and they're like, oh, I want to match with this girl. I want to talk to this girl. What should I say? And I'm like, she put zero effort into her profile. That's why you have nothing to say to her. And so do you think she's really banking on, is she, you think she's looking for a partner here? Is this something that she's prioritizing? Your expectations for her response and her effort of meeting should be on the floor because she didn't even take the time to make a good profile.
38:40 Chris Williamson? That's interesting. So the girl that just uses Tinder because when she's bored waiting for the bus, she decides to have something to have a little.
38:47 Speaker 01 And spoiler alert, that's a lot of women. I guarantee if you took a random sample of 20 hot girls, at least half of them would say like, I don't really use dating apps because I meet enough people in real life. I'm approached often. I have a good network. And then the other half might say, oh, I use it for fun or entertainment here and there, but I don't go out with that many guys. And then maybe, you know, half of that half like actually use it, but especially attractive quality women, they are not relying on dating apps.
39:14 Chris Williamson? Interesting. How can people text more effectively? How can guys text more effectively, flirt online? What are the biggest do's and don'ts when it comes to messaging game?
39:26 Speaker 01 So what I like to tell my clients is you are more likely to text yourself out of a date than into a date. Texting should be used for the logistics, but you really want to keep it minimal. A problem a lot of guys have is they are trying to get to know this person via text before a date and chit chat. And so much is lost in text messages. You don't have any tone. You don't have the nuance of facial expressions and body language. So a conversation or something can be said and taken totally out of context or just feel kind of weird. And all of a sudden you were going towards a date and she doesn't really want a date anymore. Because, and then again, this goes back to online dating, she has a queue of 20 other guys.
40:10 Speaker 01 Which is unfortunate reality. So if you misstep, it's really easy to say, I'm just going to go back to the drawing board here. So less is more, but you do need to be clear and confident in your communications. So I have, you know, I have a course on this too. It's just about texting because so many people struggle with it. That lays out basically templates or scripts. You want to open the conversation with something. Again, you don't need to reinvent the wheel here and make, say something hilarious or be a comedian. If that doesn't speak to who you are, but look for something in her profile that other people might not notice. Or you can speak to, maybe she has a photo in Croatia and you've spent time in Croatia.
40:53 Speaker 01 You can say like, oh, let me guess, that's in Hvar. You know, you can say something that is going to start a conversation around something you're knowledgeable about. Okay, you're off to the races. She's matched with you. She responds, she said, yes, like I went, you know, two years ago, have you been? Then you want to find a way to steer this towards a date relatively quickly. She's already seen your profile. She's already matched with you. You need a couple messages to establish enough trust that, you know, she knows you're a real person. She's interested.
41:24 Chris Williamson? Not a serial killer, hopefully.
41:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, she's interested in knowing more, interested in going on a date, and then segue to the date. So that can be as little as two or three back and forths, as much as 10, but anything more than that is you're you're doing too much talking and you're becoming a pen pal. And that's something a lot of guys get wrong. They're looking for this perfect opportunity to ask for a date. They're looking for a flashing green light. You don't need to do that. Go for go for asking, this is, I'm enjoying chatting with you about this. What would you think about continuing this over drinks? I know a great spot downtown. I know a great rooftop downtown with excellent happy hour.
42:06 Chris Williamson? This, I guess, is a difficulty if any guys are traveling or if you're not using the geographic net of where you date, because inevitably you can't say, why don't we continue this conversation over coffee on Wednesday? You live in fucking Atlanta.
42:20 Speaker 01 Yeah. Well, and that's just, do you want a long distance relationship? That's why, like with Raya, I said, you're looking globally. So a lot less meetups from my experience end up happening because you're not, you can't just say, hey, like, let's grab it, do something casual. Let's grab a drink next Thursday.
42:38 Chris Williamson? Yeah, let's go to fucking Tulum together or something.
42:40 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's like you have to, it's a much more level of investment. Or like, oh, I'll fly to your city for this date. And then there's all of a sudden so much pressure and expectation around it as opposed to doing something casual. If you meet somebody online, the first time you meet, I consider date zero. This is not even a first date. This is a vibe check. Let's just get together, see if we vibe. If we vibe, if we have a good conversation, let's go on a proper first date. Let's get dinner. Let's do something more involved.
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44:15 Speaker 01 So lightweight. So it's a little different if you met her online than in person, but if you met her online, then casual. A nice bar with for drinks and don't drink, a coffee shop, a smoothie shop, mocktails. If you want to eat, okay, something easy, maybe you sit at a bar and like have tapas or you even go to a food truck that you like. But you should not be over invested in a first date, meaning you shouldn't be spending a lot of time or money or resources trying to orchestrate it or to impress her. Just a vibe check. And from a woman's perspective, she doesn't want, most women, most quality women are going to want to dedicate four hours to a fancy sit down meal with somebody they don't know.
45:01 Speaker 01 They also want to see, okay, do I vibe with this person? If so, then like, you know, let's move forward. I sometimes have guys say like, oh, I've like matched with women who say like, they don't want to go for a walk. They aren't a dog. They expect dinner on a first date. And I would say, take a look at whether that is where you want to start off a relationship on. You know, where you need to be the provider of laying out the red carpet for her. Cause usually when women say that, they're also not thinking like, hey, my favorite food truck or my hole in the wall tie spot. It's like they're expecting a steakhouse or a fancy sit down dinner. And so if you're okay with that type of relationship and those expectations, go for it.
45:43 Chris Williamson? What's your thoughts on walking dates?
45:45 Speaker 01 So my husband and I's first date was a walking date. I would say if you're the type of guy who struggles to create romantic connection, it can be tough because it doesn't have an inherently sexy vibe. But it is a really nice way to get to know somebody, to get your steps in and to just see if there is a connection. And from a woman's standpoint, like, at least I know a lot of my friends, you know, especially women who are in their thirties. They don't want to drink every night of the week. Maybe they don't drink at all, like sitting down at a bar is like, oh, I can maybe do this once a week. But if you're like, hey, why don't we, you know, grab a juice and go on a walk? That's an easy thing to say yes to. So, you know, whatever your date, your first date is, the ease of yes is important.
46:30 Speaker 01 If you're asking her to drive across town or commit four hours, or she needs to like wear something special.
46:36 Chris Williamson? Get ready for ages.
46:38 Speaker 01 All of a sudden, it's a lot, she's like weighing the pros and cons and the cost benefit of doing it. Where if it's like, oh, I wanted to get some steps in anyway, like I wanted to see if this guy was normal. Yeah, like sure, let's take a walk down the block and obviously plan the walk, you know, on the beach or someplace where in a neighborhood where you have value to add, where it's going to be fun to look at stuff. Like it's not just, you know, walking down a busy street with like semis driving by, but um, I'm, I'm pro walk. If you feel confident and comfortable on a walk.
47:09 Chris Williamson? I guess from a safety perspective as well for women, a walking date during the daytime somewhere public is probably a pretty good start.
47:16 Speaker 01 Exactly.
47:16 Chris Williamson? Hmm, interesting. So.
47:20 Chris Williamson? What about turning first date into second date? And also, what should guys be doing and saying on a first date? Like, how should they behave?
47:28 Speaker 01 Yeah. So you want to be your authentic self first and foremost, but you also want to be... So on a first date, you should be aiming to have her do 70% of the talking. There are studies that show the more somebody talks, the more they perceived the date or the time spent to be positive. People like to talk. Realistically, a good date might be more balanced, more like 50/50. But the point here is you want to keep her talking, asking questions. Something men get wrong, especially when they're nervous and it's understandable, is they'll end up rifling through questions in effort to keep her talking. And they're like, "You said she should be talking 70%, so I just asked a lot of questions."
48:12 Speaker 01 And that's not exactly what you want to go for. I did explain it as you want to pull the conversational thread. So you ask a question on a topic you also find interesting, and then you go down the path of that topic. You don't need to beat a dead horse until you have nothing left to say, but then focus on that for a little bit. Because that's also how you are going to create more of an emotional connection. If you're staying really surface level with your questions, that emotional connection isn't established. But if you can get her talking about travel, and then you're talking about trips you went on as a kid, and how every year she went to the beach with her family, and it's a really happy memory for her. Those are good feelings that she's having and she's associating with the date.
48:57 Speaker 01 So think about structuring dates and having conversations around things she's going to want to talk about and are going to be fun for both of you to talk about and leave you feeling good.
49:05 Chris Williamson? I suppose if you focus on something that you are interested in and maybe have a little bit of knowledge in, that already ticks the box of authenticity. And it means that you don't actually have to play a role. If you go, "So what do you do for fun?" And she says, "Oh, I'm really into crochet and the Kardashians." You go, "Oh, yeah, tell me more about the Kardashians." You're going down a rabbit hole that you have no information about. Whereas if you can try and pull the thread of whatever it is that's a synthesis of your interests and hers. And I guess as well, it's tough for guys because they don't have as many options on the table as women do. But it's totally fine for you, as a guy, to walk away from a date going, "Do you know what it is?" She wasn't that interesting. She wasn't that interesting.
49:48 Speaker 01 Yes.
49:49 Chris Williamson? This isn't a me problem. This is a her problem. I asked her some questions and she doesn't really have any hobbies. She doesn't really seem to do anything with her time. She doesn't really communicate all that well. Like, it is completely possible for you, as a guy, who is uncertain about your value in the world and your value to women, to go on a date and the woman suck.
50:09 Speaker 01 Yes, definitely. So I tell my clients that a third of your effort should be spent towards making a connection. So helping her see that you have things in common, that you have shared interests, shared values. A third of your effort should be assessing if she is a good fit for you. So if she fits the criteria you're looking for, if she's interesting. And then the third of the effort is put towards flirting and having fun. So even if those two things aren't there, and she's not your person, ideally you both still had a little fun. You can still flirt a little bit, practice that. And then you both go on your ways and, you know, you chalk it up to like, okay, one less person who I have to meet and I know I'm not gonna marry.
50:47 Chris Williamson? Men aren't asking women's questions on dates. It's a problem. The cashiers at Trader Joe's ask more questions than guys on dates nowadays. I can remember the number of times I've asked a man a question, thinking that, at the bare minimum, he'll ask me the same one in return. But no, he is not inquisitive of my family, or my job, or my taste in music. After he's finished his long-winded answer, there is just uncomfortable silence. I then fill with another question for him. I am the one keeping the conversation going. I am the reason I had a fun time on this date. I'm a tiresome jester who is being paid in dirty martinis.
51:19 Speaker 01 Girl, move on and go on some, we need to find you some better dates. I, that is, that's funny. And I hear, I mean, I hear that from women. They complain that guys don't know how to ask questions. Not my clients. I'm teaching them how to ask questions. I think that I do feel like, growing up, women tend to be more conditioned in how to make people around them comfortable and are oftentimes better conversationalists therefore than men. That is not a blanket rule, but I think it could be a general principle, at least that I've witnessed.
51:53 Speaker 01 And I would say if that is happening like to a if that is happening to a woman, I would have her say something like, you know, I feel like I've been asking a lot about you. What do you want to know about me? Just flip it. That's the thing on dates, people are oftentimes just scared to say what's on their mind. Like, you're probably not gonna want to go on another date with someone who doesn't have the decency or is not inquisitive about who you are anyway. But if you, maybe he's giving him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he's just really nervous. And if you can kind of click him into having that realization.
52:24 Chris Williamson? Playfully with low pressure.
52:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, and he's like, oh, you're right. I'm sorry. I'm just, you know, it's a little, I'm a little nervous on first dates. Like, tell me more about your siblings or whatever, and he can turn it around. Maybe you're giving that date an opportunity to blossom into something more.
52:37 Chris Williamson? That's, I guess, what sort of flirting and and being playful and and being lighthearted helps, that it takes a lot of the pressure off. Like, you could say, I've just asked all of the questions so far tonight. Are you gonna ask me anything? Like, that's delivers the same message as what you just said, but in a way more pressurized, sort of back by T.
52:58 Speaker 01 Defensive.
52:59 Chris Williamson? Yeah, yeah, it's not fun. So, yeah, I suppose that you can kind of gesture the guys toward what you want them to do. What are the other biggest red flags that guys do on dates in terms of communication? Where they go, what they were?
53:14 Speaker 01 Treating it like a meeting and not a date. So, a lot of the men I work with have great jobs, really excel professionally, are good at communicating in work environments, but you do not communicate the same way on a date. A date should be flirty, it should be playful, there should be some physical touch. It would be inappropriate if you were at a business meeting and you touched the person's knee who you were talking to. But on a date, that should be something that you are intentionally doing. You are creating familiarity and physical connection. So, start of the date, there should be a hug, a kiss on the cheek, if that speaks to you, if that feels natural for you. Throughout the date, you should be.
53:58 Speaker 01 Hand on the knee to emphasize a point. Hand on her shoulder, guiding her to her seat. Touch her hand, you know, while you're talking. Again, this takes practice and a lot of guys who are have zero practice with physical touch. This takes a lot of practice.
54:12 Chris Williamson? And it's flailing around like a sweaty octopus.
54:15 Speaker 01 A sweaty octopus. That's quite the picture. Um, I, I actually feel like it's more they're like stick still and like have their hands at their sides like and are aren't moving at all. And I think I might prefer the sweaty octopus. Um, but I'll set a goal, say, okay, you want to have six physical touches on this date. Just like how I say, you should have an approach journal with how many women you're talking to. You should also be keeping a date journal and hitting some goals. Have I, did I pay compliments? What questions did I ask and were well received? Did I hit my physical touch goals? Um, because of a date without physical touch is a meeting. And she didn't come here for a business meeting. Likewise, if the date went well, you want to go for a kiss at the end.
54:57 Speaker 01 That is a great way to end the date if it went well. But you don't want to go for a kiss if you haven't touched her at all. Just how, even if it's a great date, you're laughing, you're talking, things are going well, you're flirting. But your hands have been at your sides or in your pockets. And then all of a sudden you lunge for a kiss at the end. That's going to feel very awkward and out of left field.
55:19 Chris Williamson? Kiss on the cheek, kiss on the lips at the end.
55:20 Speaker 01 I was referring to a kiss on the lips in that sense. You can go either. Um, you don't have to have a kiss on a first date. But I think if the vibe feels right and the date was good, then absolutely go for it.
55:34 Chris Williamson? How many women do you think that's moving too quickly for?
55:37 Speaker 01 Some, and that's okay. But this is why you have to know if she doesn't want it. All you say is no worries, like something to look forward to next time or like no pressure.
55:45 Chris Williamson? That's a cool response.
55:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
55:46 Chris Williamson? It's a fun response.
55:48 Speaker 01 I had a client, um, recently who told me on their first date, he asked if he, cause I'm also a big fan. If you're not sure about anything physically, just ask. Like stand next to her, stand close to her. Okay, this is a good sign. She's open to standing close to me. We're looking at each other's eyes. Signs are pointing to yes, I'm still a little nervous. Say to her, I really want to kiss you right now as a statement. And she's either going to say like, I don't kiss on the first date. And you can say, great, something to look forward to or like no pressure. Or she's going to say like, so do it, or just like smile and lean in and be the one to kiss you. And so you're facilitating that. And that goes for really anything physical as things escalate. If you're not sure, just ask. And if you're too uncomfortable to ask, it's too soon to go for it.
56:33 Chris Williamson? Hmm, what a good rule.
56:35 Speaker 01 And I feel like that's true with sex too. And I say like, guys who are like, oh, I don't know if it's like, if we should be having sex or like if it's time or like doing this or that in the bedroom. It's like, talk to her about it. And if you are too uncomfortable to talk to her about it, it's too soon to do it anyway.
56:51 Chris Williamson? That's a good rule. What about how much effort guys should make with the way that they dress on the first date? Like, full three-piece suit might be a little bit much for a daytime walk. Not convinced that crocs and socks are allowed, although I'm pretty pro them.
57:05 Speaker 01 I'm okay with your crocs and socks if they feel authentic to you.
57:09 Chris Williamson? Fucking knew it.
57:10 Speaker 01 I also, if you're wearing them like in a sort of like stylish ironic way, it's very different than if you're like 300 pounds and wearing them with board shorts that go below the knees, you know, and a collared shirt. Like, that's gonna be a no for me. In terms of a first date, I recommend guys have a first date go-to outfit. You don't need to be reinventing the wheel here. You don't want to be wearing something for the first time that you might not be comfortable in or trying to impress her. Just find an outfit that makes you look well groomed, fits you well. That's the number one thing guys get wrong with their clothing. Too big, often, or too small. It's usually too big, like their shirts are too baggy.
57:50 Chris Williamson? Okay, this is a big America problem.
57:52 Speaker 01 Yeah.
57:52 Chris Williamson? It's a massive, American men have zero fashion sense.
57:55 Speaker 01 This is also true.
57:56 Chris Williamson? Yeah, it's atrocious. Guys in America think that wearing a polo collared Under Armour shirt constitutes smart dress. Like, Under Armour polo shirt, jeans, leather belt, leather shoes. It's like, smart casual, like, fucking incarnate.
58:17 Speaker 01 It's so bad.
58:18 Chris Williamson? It's fucking atrocious with baseball cap. And you're like, dude, swing and a miss. God, I mean, I literally, I literally wear like metal band t-shirts, like Jim Shark shorts, Stan socks and Crocs. But I know that I can't wear an Under Armour shirt and claim that I'm going out dressed nicely. It's so bizarre. Like, American guys.
58:37 Speaker 01 Yeah, why is that? Why is it like an America problem? Because you don't see, I was just in France and the men dress so well. Everybody dresses well.
58:44 Chris Williamson? Yeah, that being said, I mean, the UK's got some, some sort of dodgy fashion trends that happen every so often. We had this addiction to skinny jeans for a decade, which I'm slowly, I'm slowly sort of ripping myself out of. I'm not too sure. There is definitely, if you're a guy in America, this is an advantage, I suppose, for dudes, disadvantage for girls. The bar is set unbelievably low for you to be a well-dressed man in America, because almost every man dresses retardedly.
59:13 Chris Williamson? Honestly, we're on that sunshine bus trip.
59:17 Chris Williamson? Yeah.
59:18 Speaker 01 You're not wrong. You're not wrong. And the bar really is so low. I have a stylist on my team for this reason, because even, I touched on this before, but even if you're doing everything right, but you show up to the date dressed like a dweeb, it's like, no, you don't look like you have your shit together. You don't look like you have self-awareness. And so if you can just get a few, and it doesn't have to be expensive items, it doesn't have to be, you know, anything outside your comfort zone, but I recommend actually just working with a professional. It's a great investment, or doing it yourself, but just having a few go-to outfits, some nice staple pieces that you can mix and match, it goes such a long way. Talk about approaching women in person, too. You want to leg up, look good.
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1:00:44 Chris Williamson? they are that you'll love it. Right now, you can get a free sample pack of all eight flavors with your first box by going to the link in the show notes below or heading to drink l m n t dot com slash modern wisdom. That's drink l m n t dot com slash modern wisdom. Okay, where should guys go to find women in person? Talked about online dating. What are your favorite spots for guys to approach women in person?
1:01:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, so any place you're already spending time and your hobbies. So you're gonna have way more to talk about with somebody who you meet at your pickleball league or your run group than you are at a dark night loud nightclub, or even just walking down the street. I'm not saying you can't meet women at bars and clubs and you can't approach random women on the street, but that's playing level hard. You have to find a commonality. You have to find something to talk about. Whereas if you were just pick up some hobbies and start going to them on a weekly basis, pick three things you want to do and try and go to them every single week. Ideally, not all hobbies are created equal. Like, pick hobbies that women also attend and just start talking to people.
1:01:52 Speaker 01 That's going to be the best way. And oftentimes, what I tell my clients is, you might not, okay, let's use pickleball for an example, because as you know, I love pickleball. Let's say you join a pickleball league. Maybe you meet a woman, you're a woman you're interested in dating there, but maybe not. But you might meet a friend who then invites you to his birthday party. And then at that birthday party, his roommate from college brought his sister, and that's the girl you hit it off with. And you're one or two degrees removed. So you have much more built in trust. You have something to talk about while you're both at that party, pickleball, your common friend. And it becomes much more easy to start a good conversation that can lead someplace.
1:02:33 Chris Williamson? So you're optimizing for social events, things that involve a little bit of interaction, like CrossFit Gym, but presumably not something that's super solo, like fucking archery or something like that?
1:02:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, you're just So I am a big fan of you spending time in any place that makes you happy. Our tree might be something great to highlight in your dating app profile or talk about on dates, and that's going to be attractive to women. But you want to make sure your hobbies are not all solo hobbies that are going to be great for talking about.
1:03:04 Chris Williamson? I go mountaineering.
1:03:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:03:05 Chris Williamson? I go rock climbing on my own.
1:03:07 Speaker 01 Yeah, but not great for meeting people and you want to diversify. But rock climbing gym, great. A lot of those solo things can be turned into good places to meet people. One of my hobbies is baking bread, but.
1:03:20 Chris Williamson? You brought bread.
1:03:21 Speaker 01 I did.
1:03:21 Chris Williamson? Show me your bread. Get your bread out for the lads. Come on.
1:03:24 Speaker 01 I was gonna say baking bread at home is not a good place to meet somebody, but I've been to cooking classes, bread, like I went to a sourdough pizza making class because I like baking bread and there was lots of single men and women there.
1:03:36 Chris Williamson? Okay, and what's this? What have you got me?
1:03:38 Speaker 01 This is sourdough, just a classic homemade sourdough. I made it this morning, little ASMR in there.
1:03:45 Chris Williamson? Yeah, everyone can hear it. Oh wow, look at that. Hold that sucker up. You're gonna have to lift that up. I mean, that is.
1:03:54 Chris Williamson? That is fantastic. Thank you very much. I very much appreciate it.
1:03:57 Speaker 01 You're very welcome.
1:03:58 Chris Williamson? Jesus Christ, I could slug an infant with this. It's really, really heavy. Pop that back in there. I'm not gonna leave this out for the elements to go and get. Thank you very much.
1:04:05 Speaker 01 You're very welcome.
1:04:06 Chris Williamson? Yeah, that's fantastic. Bread by Blaine coming soon.
1:04:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:04:12 Chris Williamson? Okay, what about guys approaching girls in the gym?
1:04:18 Speaker 01 I met my husband at the gym.
1:04:19 Chris Williamson? I thought you went on a date, a walk?
1:04:21 Speaker 01 It was our first date.
1:04:22 Chris Williamson? Right.
1:04:22 Speaker 01 We didn't meet on a walk.
1:04:23 Chris Williamson? Ah, I see. Yep, okay.
1:04:26 Speaker 01 Um, so I met him at a fitness class, like a group fitness class.
1:04:30 Chris Williamson? Like a Barry's F45 type thing?
1:04:32 Speaker 01 Barry's, yeah, exactly, in San Francisco. So you can meet women at the gym. I am proof that it is possible, but there are different considerations and some gym environments are going to be better than others. So like a rock climbing gym, a CrossFit gym, a fitness class, these places are going to better facilitate meeting women. There's natural starting and stopping points. There's times when everyone is standing around. You can talk to her when she's not working out. Just an open gym floor, like at Equinox or Lifetime where she. Has her headphones in, is on the treadmill, is in the midst of a workout. Not good. You would then need to wait until she's like at the water fountain or you're coming and going at the same time, which is much more just chance.
1:05:13 Chris Williamson? There's a lot of guys who are probably thinking, god damn it, I might need to put my bodybuilding gains to one side because my like solo neurotic heavy metal in the headphones training style of this bro gym isn't going to work. I need to start doing fucking orange theory so that I can hang around with girls as they come in and out.
1:05:32 Speaker 01 Literally.
1:05:33 Chris Williamson? And you have to, these are the sacrifices that men have to make that women really don't understand. You know, like the patriarchy is not alive or well when you have to sacrifice gains to be able to talk to women.
1:05:43 Speaker 01 But it's true. I have clients all the time who are like, oh, I really like my gym routine. I'm like, okay, well, that's fine, but then you're, you're not going to meet women there. So if you want, you're saying you want to meet a woman who's fit, who likes to work out, you need to spend some time at these other places. And I'm not saying totally give up your own gym routine, but you might be surprised. Like I, every time I send a client to Pilates, they're like, holy shit, that was so much harder than I thought. Like I was dying and so.
1:06:07 Chris Williamson? Solid core Rex people, they're getting so popular at the moment.
1:06:10 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:06:11 Chris Williamson? Well, I mean, this, you know, to lean into some of the evolutionary psychology stuff, there's an idea called sex ratio hypothesis, which is whoever in a local ecology is the rarest sex has the upper hand in the mating market. So you see that in areas with a male skewed sex ratio, there are more dates before sex. Women are less likely to say that they're happy with any one man, they're less likely to commit. Men are forced to go on more dates before they can actually sort of move forward. And the reverse is true too, that if men are the scarcer sex, that there are fewer dates before sex, et cetera, et cetera. Reason being that if there are more of your particular sex competing for more of that rarest sex's attention,
1:06:56 Chris Williamson? you need to play by their rules. And that means that if you're a dude that goes to solid core and does Pilates, like. Between you and the gay instructor, there's two, there's like one guy that's interested in the women in this entire room. And maybe 70% of them have got a fella and a couple of them aren't looking today. But that's still a really strong sex ratio.
1:07:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:07:14 Chris Williamson? Well, this is, maybe it's not 20 to one, but it's three to one or four to one. It's better than a nightclub.
1:07:19 Speaker 01 Yeah, way better than a nightclub where the reverse is often true. Yeah, that's a great point. And it just makes a lot of sense. I have a client in New York who started playing Mahjong. Are you familiar with Mahjong?
1:07:33 Chris Williamson? It's like a board game?
1:07:34 Speaker 01 It's like with these little domino pieces. It's from China, but they have an American version. I'm actually very into it myself right now. But talk about a good place to meet women. He goes, he's like a Brooklyn Mahjong meetup and he's one of four dudes and there's 100 women there. And he had like three girls give him their number, make you should join our Mahjong group, like trying to get a guy in.
1:07:54 Chris Williamson? Wow, wow. But I mean, run clubs at the moment are just
1:07:58 Speaker 01 So popular right now.
1:07:59 Chris Williamson? The hottest thing in the world. Did you see there was a great meme that came out a couple of weeks ago that said, uh, over-sexualized run club starter pack? And it was just all of the different, it was like ketone IQ element was in there, an Andrew Huberman podcast. It was really, really good. But yeah, I think, you know, I was trying to deconstruct why I think run clubs have become so popular. And I think that a big chunk of it is that non-weird opportunity to stand around before and after and talk. Like it's a, it's like a social club masquerading as a fitness pursuit.
1:08:36 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:08:36 Chris Williamson? And it gives people the legitimacy to go and do something. Because if it was just, let's meet up in the park and stand around for a bit, everyone would feel weird. But if it's couched and we're gonna get our 5K in, all right, fine, I guess. I mean, the 5K is what, 25 minutes of work?
1:08:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:08:51 Chris Williamson? Fuck all. And then People stand around again and go, okay, well, I can get her number and oh, she's
1:08:56 Speaker 01 It's amazing.
1:08:56 Chris Williamson? She's that chick from last week. She's got that sports bra on again.
1:08:59 Speaker 01 Yeah. And you're seeing the same people consistently, which also makes it way easier. Good opener to use. I feel like I've seen you before. My name's Blaine. Like I've seen you here before, you know, you leverage that anytime you've seen a woman more than once as an opener. That's a great one.
1:09:13 Chris Williamson? Familiarity.
1:09:14 Speaker 01 Yeah. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I love a run club because also you're weeding out people who don't have any interest in health. You know, it's like minded people are going to go to a run club.
1:09:25 Chris Williamson? Up and awake in a park at eight AM on a Saturday and someone else is too. You can probably tell quite a lot about the way that they, they didn't go out last night unless they're hanging. They didn't go out last night.
1:09:35 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:09:35 Chris Williamson? They probably care about their health. They're probably quite reliable. They've probably got a relatively normal job. That's pre-selection.
1:09:42 Speaker 01 Yeah. And I, I find so many people are just getting over the drinking culture and not wanting to just meet people at bars or hang out at bars, or if we stand around in a park after work, then it's the expectation is usually, okay, like there's drinking involved or there's something to eat or drink. And that's not necessary to meet people. And I think a lot of people, one, want to get off the apps and then two, don't want to be drinking. So things like run clubs or pickleball or rock climbing are great with places to meet people.
1:10:10 Chris Williamson? Yeah. CrossFit for me, when I started doing CrossFit was outrageous for dating.
1:10:16 Speaker 01 Really?
1:10:17 Chris Williamson? Yeah, just because it's all, it's all coed.
1:10:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:10:20 Chris Williamson? Um, a lot of the people, especially as dudes, a lot of the dudes that do CrossFit are already married because it does quite, take quite a lot of dedication. And it's kind of hard and it's the sort of thing that a man who feels like he's given up all of his pursuits in other areas of life would decide to apply himself to. Yeah. For one hour a day, I can regain some control when I don't have to change nappies or you do deal with shit from work or, you know, take the bins out. Um, so you actually have, although it's still probably, it's probably about 50 50, maybe sex ratio, maybe tiny, a little bit more skewed male. But when you actually look at the sort of men that go and the sort of women that go, I think that you have more unavailable men than you do unavailable women.
1:11:04 Chris Williamson? And this means that from a, I, it was an incredibly profitable few years when I was
1:11:10 Speaker 01 Wow.
1:11:11 Chris Williamson? Doing CrossFit in the Northeast of the UK. Plus there's. This sort of inherent like high five culture at the end of workouts, there's intermissions in between different things. There's usually some dicking about at the start. There's waiting around at the end. You are training between two and five times a week doing classes. So the consistency that you see people with, you don't have to wait one whole week until Run Club comes back around again.
1:11:35 Speaker 01 Yeah, I love all of those points. And even something that gets you touching somebody, like a fist bump or a high five, actually goes a really long way to your point. Another one I love that is so good is dancing, salsa, two-step, swing, whatever kind of dance you're interested in. Any of my clients who pick up dance are like, whoa, talk about a good market. And like, if you're authentically into it and you're fun to dance with, even if you're a total beginner and you're a single nice guy, the girls are gonna be into it. Like, there are way less men than women dancing. And women want to dance with the fun, single guys. So if you can be that guy in your dance group, you're golden.
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1:12:59 Chris Williamson? them to be, this is the perfect socially acceptable gesture. Also, there is free shipping worldwide plus a 20% discount if you go to the link in the show notes below, or head to manscaped.com/modernd wisdom and use the code MODERNWISDOM at checkout. That's manscaped.com/modernd wisdom and modern wisdom at checkout. What was that creepiness research that you did?
1:13:23 Speaker 01 Yes. So especially after the pandemic, I found that men were consistently telling me,
1:13:29 Speaker 01 I am worried about being creepy. And I would ask, okay, well, what what does creepy mean to you? And the answer, they either didn't have an answer or it was always different. So I first, I did some research around like what men, if if this was holding back men and spoiled, the answer was yes, like men were very worried about being creepy. And I think something like forty six percent said that it limited their interactions or affected their interactions with women, which is a lot. And then, but they couldn't define what it was. So then I asked women, okay, what is creepy to you? And what guys thought was creepy and what women thought was creepy wasn't always the same. But what I really realized from doing this research or my takeaway in relation to my clients
1:14:13 Speaker 01 is the guys who are actually worried about being creepy are usually not the creepy ones.
1:14:19 Chris Williamson? Hmm, by definition.
1:14:21 Speaker 01 Yes, by definition. And maybe like one in ten of the guys who are worried about being creepy are unknowingly doing something creepy. Some of the things on the top of the list, when I surveyed the women of what they found was creepy was excessive staring, unwanted physical contact, catcalling. Unwanted contact online is actually a very big one that I think guys don't think about.
1:14:42 Chris Williamson? What's that?
1:14:43 Speaker 01 So you see a girl at yoga class, you hear her name when she checks in, you then add her on Instagram. You haven't talked to her, she didn't give you her Instagram. That's inappropriate.
1:14:55 Chris Williamson? Interesting.
1:14:56 Speaker 01 And a lot of those things I just described aren't things that a guy who's worried about being creepy is actually doing. And so I found like it was almost just helpful to tell these men who were worried about being creepy, listen, your problem isn't that you're creepy. That's not why you're not getting girls. Your problem is that you're being too much of a nice guy and you're actually not putting yourself out there enough and taking enough risks with the women you're interested in. That's the category they fell into.
1:15:25 Chris Williamson? Right, okay, so what what are the things guys think are creepy but aren't? Was there any of those that came through?
1:15:32 Speaker 01 I'm trying to, let me.
1:15:36 Speaker 01 I didn't survey the men on what they thought was creepy. That's more just like what I like. They were worried about it. Um, I feel like they thought being approached with, yeah, okay. I'm remembering now. Men oftentimes were worried that just approaching a woman was creepy. That looking at a woman was creepy. And so, okay, women didn't say looking was creepy. Women said excessive staring. So this goes back to what I said. If you look at a woman, that's a, and you make eye contact and you give her a little smile, that's a great opportunity and an opener to go approach her. Hey, I feel like we made eye contact before, so I wanted to come over and say hello. But if she looks away and turns her back and then she looks back, glances back at you and you're still looking, you're still staring, that's creepy. That's
1:16:19 Speaker 01 the excessive staring that she's talking about. If you approach her and you expect to get her phone number right away, you form no trust and you're just like, hey, um, I'd love to take you to drink sometime. Like, could I get your phone number? Okay, that's just weird. And like, she might think, yeah, that was kind of creepy. He just like demanded my phone number. He didn't establish any connection or trust first.
1:16:41 Chris Williamson? That's a question. Should you ask for a girl's phone number or ask for their Instagram?
1:16:46 Speaker 01 Phone number.
1:16:47 Chris Williamson? Why?
1:16:47 Speaker 01 It shows more intent. It shows, if you ask her, ask her on a date, first of all, and then get her contact information. Be confident and direct in what you want. Like, oh, I want to keep in touch. Let's get your, can I get your Instagram? Like, what? You need to like, check out where she's traveled in the past couple of years? Like, why do you need her Instagram? You either want to go out with her or you don't. And I will say, sometimes women will say like, how about we do Instagram instead? She wants to make sure you're not a serial killer. She does want to suss you out a little more. And in that case, sure, no problem. Let's do Instagram. But I would say, as the man, ask for the date and then ask for the phone number.
1:17:25 Chris Williamson? That's really cool. That's a really cool way to do it. Cause what you're doing as the guy is you're just kicking the can down the road in any case. If I get her number, if I get her Instagram, after I've got her Instagram, I'll ask for her number. Then once I've got her on WhatsApp, I'll ask her to go out on a date. You can do it right there. And I guess.
1:17:42 Chris Williamson? I wonder whether a lot of time on online dating and kind of a normalization of that as the MO for what most people do is kind of making everyone forget that you don't need to jump through those hoops. That's the thing that you do when you don't have the in-person thing.
1:18:00 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:18:00 Chris Williamson? I had this, Jeffrey Miller told me about this idea where he wished that he could have a dating platform where all that it consisted of was 30 second videos. And obviously you'd have to have some really robust AI to work out what's in those videos because a dating app, its videos could cause some controversy. But I do think that there's so much to be said for, you know, like a, maybe a video call. I don't know, because you'd have to be online at the same time. So synchronous communication is kind of a bit tough. But like if you had an async, just get to do a 30 second video because you can just tell everything. And if you're in person, that's 100x over a video. And so yeah, regressing
1:18:41 Chris Williamson? back to, okay, we'll begin at the top of the funnel. I started Instagram, take it down to WhatsApp, and then from WhatsApp, take it to a date. It's like, bro, you had, you could just, you didn't need to go back up.
1:18:50 Speaker 01 Yeah. Why are you adding in the social element of essentially a dating app?
1:18:54 Chris Williamson? Yeah.
1:18:54 Speaker 01 And drawing it out. And guess what? She might not love your Instagram.
1:18:57 Chris Williamson? How important is a curated social media feed?
1:19:01 Speaker 01 So it depends. The younger you are, the more relevant I think social media is in dating. And if you're going to attach your social media to your dating app profile, then you need to at least have it be decent. You don't need to be posting every day. You don't even need to be posting every week or every month, but you need to think about what the top upper fold looks like. So that's like, you know, when you open a newspaper and like, what's at the top? It's like when you open your Instagram, what's at the top is what she's really going to see. So that needs to look good. And you should treat it like your dating app. All of the things that we talked about that makes a good dating app, quality photos, clear concise captions, those are all going to play in. So if you have social media, make sure it checks those boxes.
1:19:45 Speaker 01 But personally, I find it really attractive and impressive when somebody doesn't have social media. So and I think a lot of women and men would feel that way. It's like, oh, I actually don't have Instagram or I don't use Instagram. It's like, damn.
1:20:00 Chris Williamson? Yeah, God, this is like a barn find. Jesus Christ. It's only got a couple of thousand miles on it.
1:20:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:20:07 Chris Williamson? How can guys, we're talking about avoiding being creepy, the way that they communicate. How can guys be more charismatic and funny? I'm not a funny guy. I don't do the funny thing, you know, that's for someone else. How can they lean into that sort of playful teasing flirting stuff?
1:20:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, so the first thing I'll say is you don't need to be a comedian to be good at dating. That you don't need to be telling jokes or doing a bit that is going to make her laugh. What you want to be is lightweight, fun and flirty. So flirt is adult play. So can you be playful with her? Can you tease her about something or tease yourself? Those are easier ways to get the flirtiness going that aren't, oh, I need to think about being funny. And if you really feel like I want to be funnier, I feel like I'm not good at making people smile or making people laugh, then my few suggestions are watch more comedy. Like you will understand a lot about delivery and tone and how comedians make themselves funny, because that is a learned skill.
1:21:10 Speaker 01 It is not something they were born with. Take a comedy class or take an improv class, especially if you're someone who struggles with word associations and coming up with something to say. Building that muscle by doing improv can be really beneficial. And it's hard, like a lot of guys are like, I could never. And it's like, that's all the more reason. Or something like Toastmasters. Build that skill because dating and just like dating is a learnable skill, just like being funny is a learnable skill. Having good conversations is also a learnable skill, but it takes effort.
1:21:45 Chris Williamson? I haven't done Toastmasters, but I've done a good bit of improv. And at least in my experience, the opportunity that you get in improv for sort of relinquishing fear of failure, the one that I did every time that you got something wrong, you had to put your hands in the air, bow and say, I failed and everyone applauded. And it was to try and sort of de-sensitize.
1:22:04 Speaker 01 That's amazing.
1:22:05 Chris Williamson? It was so, I failed. And then everyone goes, oh, there we are, you failed. It's really funny and it really sort of helps to cast off a lot of that nervous energy. Does this?
1:22:14 Speaker 01 Yes, that would translate to approaching.
1:22:17 Chris Williamson? Correct. Yeah, like, doesn't matter, I failed.
1:22:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:22:19 Chris Williamson? And whatever.
1:22:21 Speaker 01 I love that.
1:22:22 Chris Williamson? One of the best, I can do it with you now, actually. So let's do my favorite.
1:22:26 Speaker 01 This is from. I've never done improv for the record.
1:22:28 Chris Williamson? That's fine. This is from my speech coach, Miles. So this is one of his favorite improv exercises. So you can do three phases of this. Okay. First one, you're going to just point around the room at different objects, things. And as you point at them, you're just going to tell me the name of what they are. So you're just going to point at them and you're just going to say the name of them, do it at the pace, whatever you want. All right, three, two, one.
1:22:50 Speaker 01 Bread, can, iPad, Chris, camera, TV, light.
1:22:58 Chris Williamson? Perfect. Okay. Second version, you're going to point at things around the room, but you're not going to say the name of the first thing you point at. And when you point at the second one, you're going to say the name of the first one. And then when you point at the third one, you're going to say the name of the second one. So you're going to not say the name of the first thing and you're always going to be one object behind as you're pointing. And I need you to not point in the same, the same things in the same order. Not the same order. You can point in the same things.
1:23:25 Speaker 01 I was already like, I got this.
1:23:25 Chris Williamson? No, you can't do it in the same order.
1:23:27 Speaker 01 Okay.
1:23:27 Chris Williamson? All right, three, two, one.
1:23:30 Speaker 01 Camera.
1:23:33 Speaker 01 Light.
1:23:39 Chris Williamson? I failed.
1:23:41 Speaker 01 I failed. That is hard. I was like, I got this.
1:23:44 Chris Williamson? All right. So third one. Now you're going to point around the room at objects and you're going to call them anything in the world that isn't what they are. All right. Three, two, one.
1:23:56 Speaker 01 Plant, dog,
1:24:00 Speaker 01 car, basket,
1:24:04 Speaker 01 TV, baby.
1:24:07 Chris Williamson? Cool. Okay. Well done.
1:24:08 Speaker 01 I was better than that one.
1:24:09 Chris Williamson? Hey, we did it. So what we've done there, first one is just straight up description. And it's can I get what's in my brain, in my eyes into brain and then back out of mouth. Second one's the most difficult ones. That's parallel processing. You're going around the room and pointing at the things that are there, but you're not saying what's in your mind. You're saying what was previously in your mind. So that's being able to hold on to multiple threads at the same time. And then the final one is just straight up creativity. Can I point at a thing and do something creative? And I love that exercise. It's so fun. You can do it in two minutes. And that second one just breaks people's brains.
1:24:42 Speaker 01 Yeah. And it gets your brain like ticking in a different way. That's something I want to practice.
1:24:46 Chris Williamson? It's really cool.
1:24:47 Speaker 01 Do you feel like as you get better at that game, it helps you with parallel thinking in conversation?
1:24:53 Chris Williamson? For sure.
1:24:54 Speaker 01 That's a great strategy.
1:24:56 Chris Williamson? It's fucking cool, isn't it?
1:24:56 Speaker 01 I'm going to bring that.
1:24:57 Chris Williamson? You can have that one.
1:24:58 Speaker 01 Yeah, thank you.
1:24:58 Chris Williamson? I mean, it's just so, it's so much fun to do with, with anybody because they immediately go, I've never had to try. Yeah. Well, I mean, if you're going to make your date seem silly, but um, yeah, you're right. It's.
1:25:09 Speaker 01 Being silly on a date is a good thing.
1:25:10 Chris Williamson? That's true, but making the other person feel silly, maybe you doing it and saying, okay, so I'm going to go first.
1:25:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:25:15 Chris Williamson? And then showing how.
1:25:15 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:25:16 Chris Williamson? But I would think.
1:25:16 Speaker 01 Or a second or third date.
1:25:17 Chris Williamson? You can have that one. Uh, yeah, I love that. I love that as a, as an idea, but the point being that that is showing you just how further, because there's people out there that I've seen do that, that can just go bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, being one behind at all times. It's wild.
1:25:34 Speaker 01 I'm going to practice. Next time you see me, try me.
1:25:36 Chris Williamson? Vicious. Okay. One of the conversations I've had a lot on the show over the last few years has been about the sort of loneliness epidemic of men. Obviously you're dealing with men who are struggling in dating. You've done some research on this. There's a lot of talk about the perils of men and the challenge of modern masculinity and how men are falling behind. And you know, I've been one of the people that's pushed this. But from your experience, from your research, how much are men struggling with loneliness at the moment? What did the data say?
1:26:04 Speaker 01 So there is absolutely a large subset of men struggling with loneliness. What I have actually found, though, is it's not all men. It is certain men in a certain group. And actually, the type of men, because I did this research like two years ago, and I have noticed over the years that actually, the type of man who works with me isn't necessarily from that lonely bucket. The type of man who comes to a woman and is seeking help in his dating life often has a very robust life outside of dating. A lot of people assume like, oh, they hired someone who hired a dating coach, he must be like a real loser. And that is absolutely not the case. A
1:26:44 Speaker 01 lot of my, most of my clients are successful professionals, have robust social lives, hobbies, lots of friends, family that they are engaged with. They aren't the ones who aren't seeing any friends and family for a month at a time. And it's just their dating life that they're confused about and they want to level up and match where the rest of their life already is. I would say for men who are really struggling with loneliness and making friends and leaving their house, that is something that needs to be addressed first and separately than thinking about how am I going to get a woman to join me? Because no woman is going to want to join you on your lonely couch where you never leave six nights a week.
1:27:29 Chris Williamson? So the journey of getting into a relationship begins with getting some friends?
1:27:35 Speaker 01 Yes. Your dating life is going to be infinitely easier. Once you have a social circle and a community that you are actively engaged in.
1:27:43 Chris Williamson? It's wild that this is revolutionary information.
1:27:46 Speaker 01 Well, it's really sad that we've come so far from that just being the standard. And this goes back to what I was saying about technology. We don't have to have community or social lives to get our baseline needs met, to get our food, to get our pleasure, to get our dopamine. But I don't think it's good for society.
1:28:06 Chris Williamson? Forty five percent of men say that they see friends less than one times per month. Thirty five percent say that they're either unmotivated or have given up on dating. Fifty four percent say they'd rather play video games than have sex.
1:28:21 Speaker 01 That's terrifying.
1:28:22 Chris Williamson? And that was 2,000 single men in the US. So again, we're selecting for people who may already be low sex drive, maybe the sort of people that are less likely to be dating anyway.
1:28:33 Speaker 01 And in that same data set, in that same survey, there was a category that I didn't include that was men generally and men in relationships. And it was the single men that were struggling. The men in relationships saw friends and family more regularly, had interest areas, didn't feel as lonely, were more interested in sex. But it's it's a self fulfilling prophecy of, okay, I'm not having sex. I can, you know, just masturbate at home, watching porn on OnlyFans. That becomes easier. It now is one step harder to get out of the house the next day and go work for it when I have this at my fingertips at home.
1:29:14 Speaker 01 Where that wasn't an option decades ago, you know, even taking back one decade, definitely two or three decades. Like, if you wanted to get laid, you had to go out and do it. Like, sure, maybe you go, even if you had to go to the video store and rent like a VHS porno.
1:29:28 Chris Williamson? At least you're out of the house.
1:29:29 Speaker 01 At least you're to interact with somebody.
1:29:31 Chris Williamson? Yeah, men, I think a lot of young men are being sedated out of the status seeking, reproductive seeking behavior that they would have done previously.
1:29:40 Chris Williamson? The video games versus sex thing is is wild, but I suppose that for so many guys now, there's just this big fear around it. And like you say, guys that are in relationships, they see their family more, they see their friends more, they're less likely to say that they're lonely. But that doesn't mean that getting into a relationship is the solution to those things. You don't know which direction the arrow of causality is going here.
1:30:02 Speaker 01 And usually you need those things to get in a relationship with a quality woman. Because, yeah, you're not going to, first of all, like I said before, meet a quality woman if you're sitting at home on your couch. And then, two, you're not going to have anything to talk about with her if you're not building that community. Like, the community and the social circle is a byproduct of having interests and investments that you do outside of your home and that you're passionate and interested in.
1:30:26 Chris Williamson? Yeah, because even the friends thing. I think people presume they know that there's a kind of pre-selection thing going on with dating, that people aren't obligated to just get into a relationship with you because you're there. But the same thing's true of friendships too, that, you know, there's been periods in my life where even though I've had tons and tons of like status, I basically haven't ever not had status since I've been an adult because I went club promo into reality TV into the podcasting thing. But there was definitely periods where the sort of people I wanted to be friends with wouldn't want to be friends with me because I had nothing to talk to them about. Because even though the things that they were interested in, I was also interested in, I hadn't actually curated that area of my life at all. I just had this, yeah, well, you know, like, I'm sure that I'll be
1:31:10 Chris Williamson? accepted or whatever. And it's like, no, it's not. So you need to work hard to get friends. And, you know, working hard at anything sucks. It's way easier to not have to work hard and to then rail against the world about why it's unfair, about why friends aren't for me. I'm going to be a lone ranger, sigma male, fucking alpha wolf. And it's like, no, dude, you're gonna die soon.
1:31:30 Speaker 01 And you have people on the internet who are saying you're right for that. And you have your little echo chamber that are of people who agree with you. So you actually don't feel like so alone or so isolated in that view. You're like, yeah, look at all these other guys, all these other people feel the same way. And they're just as lonely and sick and sedated.
1:31:48 Chris Williamson? Misery loves its company. How much can guys turn it around in your experience? Because people are coming to you. We've just said lots of people that are lonely. I have an absolute shit ton of sympathy for the guys out there that are struggling. I've done 50 episodes on the show that are talking about this. What I don't have sympathy for are guys that don't believe that it can improve. And I have active distaste for guys that are encouraging other guys to believe that they can't improve it. Like, there's a special place in hell reserved for people who are nihilistic and convince others to be the same.
1:32:18 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:32:19 Chris Williamson? How much can guys who are, Blaine, I heard you on this podcast and I really like it. And I feel like I want to get friends. I want to get interests. Then I want to get friends. Then I'm going to get a relationship and I'm going to have a life. How much can the person that thinks it's hopeless turn it around in your experience?
1:32:34 Speaker 01 It is 100% possible if you are willing to do the work and get outside your comfort zone. This is not something that improves because you watch a seminar on it and you watch my course and you read all the books. That is not what makes the difference. Are you willing to get outside your comfort zone, take action, try and fail, try again?
1:32:55 Speaker 01 We can do a one eighty. We can transform your life. And a lot, most of my clients often are coming to me with a pretty good base. They already have their interests and they already have some friends, but not everyone. Some come to me really much at square one and it's, I need help with all of this. And we can do that. Everything I'm teaching about approaching women and talking to people is absolutely applicable to making friends. And you know, sometimes what some people need is a cheerleader and to be held accountable. And taking a course or working with a coach helps them.
1:33:32 Chris Williamson? Being encouraged, I suppose as well. If, if you've got no one who's telling you, well done for going and doing the thing you said you were going to do. As opposed to just yourself who already thinks that you're a piece of shit. But there's definitely been times, you know, it's so funny because
1:33:48 Chris Williamson? I think I have personally the
1:33:52 Chris Williamson? psychological makeup of somebody who would be and could be incredibly isolated and lonely. If it wasn't for the fact that kind of the situations I've ended up in have kept me moving and dragged me out of that. Like I just, you know, I, there's a lot of pushback on the internet. I started talking about bullying in school about two years ago, a year and a half ago. And so many people seem to be incapable of imagining somebody who is now
1:34:22 Chris Williamson? achieved some level of worldly success as ever having had any setbacks. And this guy, this guy.
1:34:29 Speaker 01 So internet.
1:34:30 Chris Williamson? I know, like you can tell that this guy was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. You like, show me that you didn't have any problems without telling me you didn't have any problems. I'm like, bro, my childhood like was fucking rough, like really rough, especially in socially, especially in school. And it took a long time for me to get rid. I'm still in therapy, unpacking the assumptions I have about myself, the story that I tell myself. But I can see, and this is why I'm always a little bit torn because even if it doesn't appear like it from the outside. I really genuinely understand the psychology of the guys that are stuck in the house, that do not have a particularly high sense of self-worth, that are scared of going out and making friends, that do feel like they've been rejected by society because for
1:35:12 Chris Williamson? so long that was me. And yet, was it a little while ago? And yet, did a bit of a glow up and some time in the gym maybe rip me out of that? Was I fortunate to sit next to a guy that made me a club promoter in my first seminar at university? All of these things, yeah. But a lot of that came from luck. Some of it came from sort of predisposition, but a ton of it came from fucking agency and me doing the work.
1:35:32 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:35:32 Chris Williamson? And I think it's, it's often discounted. Anybody that has like luck or success or money or whatever, well, it must be nice, easy for him to say, and it immediately discounts all of these things. But I don't think that it's true. And, you know, I really, really try as hard as I can to sell a message to young dudes that, look, I've been in a very, very similar position to you for a very long time. The world's forgotten about me. No one cares. It's hard. It sucks. I don't need anybody else. Things are too scary. It just doesn't feel safe to me. And yet, there are, like, the bar is set so low because so many
1:36:14 Chris Williamson? people feel the same thing that you do, and so few are prepared to get over it. And I understand why you're unprepared to get over it. I know. So you don't need to be, it's like that thing about, if you're being chased by an alligator, you don't need to run faster than the alligator. You just need to run faster than the guy that's next to you. And it's kind of the same as that. So few people are going to be prepared to take control, to go and do something that makes a good change in their life. And that can be you. Like, that could be you tomorrow. Tomorrow, you could get up, you could not hit snooze, you could go to the gym, you could go for a walk in the morning, you could join the local run club, which is fucking free. You could listen to podcasts that you think make you better. You could get the audible subscription. You can switch out for some fucking streaming service subscription that you've got, and you can start listening to books and improve
1:36:57 Chris Williamson? yourself. It is such a blessing to live in a time now where you have the best of every single human that's ever existed at the touch of a button. And you can use it and tomorrow, make yourself better, make your world better. It's fantastic. And that's why I'm always so torn between sympathy for the people that are struggling, and then this desire to just say, bro, fucking step it up.
1:37:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:37:19 Chris Williamson? Because no one else is gonna do it. No one else is gonna come and save you. No one's gonna come and drag you out of your pit of hopeless self-pity. You're gonna have to do it, or you're gonna stay there. Which one do you want?
1:37:31 Speaker 01 Yeah, you have two options and the choice is really yours. And I think it's way easier for people to look at you and say, he got lucky. He had a silver spoon because that means you didn't take action and you don't. They don't need to have agency because they didn't get lucky and they didn't have the silver spoon. So it's much easier to just assume everyone else had it better than you. And you are miserable because of your circumstances than to look at yourself and say, I can change my circumstances.
1:37:58 Chris Williamson? There's a quote from Paddy McCormick where he says, the greatest trick the devil ever played was to convince you that the pessimists are the good guys. And it's fucking true. I don't want to be around those people. I haven't for a long time. Uh, and yet I see it draw into myself. We had this idea last year called the lonely chapter, which is when you've started to change, you're thinking differently. You've maybe done a bit of personal development. You've got dreams and goals and aspirations for yourself. So you're different to your existing set of friends, but you're not yet sufficiently developed that you're at the level of the friends that you're going to have. And you're stuck in this sort of no man's land between two. You, you can't have conversations with your old friends without regressing back to a person that you really kind of don't want to be anymore.
1:38:39 Chris Williamson? And yet you haven't managed to cultivate the new friend groups of the more developed person that you're going to turn into. And, you know, you spend a lot of time stuck in this lonely chapter, stuck in this sort of middle. And it's so easy for you to turn back, just go back there. And there's a scene in The Matrix where Neo has been met by Trinity and she opens the door and he's about to get out and walk down it. And she says, you don't want to go down that road, Neo. You've been down that road and you know where it leads. And that's what I see when I think about people turning back, when I think about guys and girls turning back down a road that they already know.
1:39:13 Speaker 01 The familiar.
1:39:14 Chris Williamson? I'm going to go back to drinking on a weekend with the boys, getting a bag in, spending all of my money on one lads holiday per month, per year. I'm not going to have any bigger dreams for myself because it's scary. It's uncomfortable. It makes me feel concerned about my future. No one else around me is doing it. I'm scared that I'm going to be alone. It's like, bro, you're already alone. You're already alone because the people that are around you don't get you. They don't genuinely care about you. They're just happy for you to wallow in your own like pity and stagnation along with them. And Even if they're not doing it because they want to hold you back, they don't have the same dreams that you do. And this isn't a value judgment. The people that are happy with a simple life, where you don't have to have travel and ambition and a big company and whatever, whatever it is that you think you need in order to make yourself happy. There's maybe an argument to be made that the more simple person
1:39:59 Chris Williamson? has the better life and that they're actually a superior human to the rest of us. They probably are. But if you are not that person, there is this permanent ambient little devil on your shoulder saying, you're not doing enough. You could be better. This isn't the life that's made for you. You should be doing more. And in my experience, that voice won't go away. It can only be satisfied by you actually trying to do things and make changes. And this comes for getting friends, for improving yourself, for losing weight, for getting into a relationship. There are people out there for whom the asexual community, it's, is it the first of June today?
1:40:35 Speaker 01 No.
1:40:36 Chris Williamson? First of June?
1:40:37 Speaker 01 Well, my watch is definitely wrong because it's the second of June. But I think it's the 31st.
1:40:41 Chris Williamson? 31st of May. It's first day of Pride Month tomorrow. The LGBTQIAA, asexual. There's some people out there, but it's way fewer than like people want to make out. And the AI girlfriends aren't going to come sufficiently quickly. And I don't think they're going to make you satisfied. So yeah. Rant over, but I think there is an awful lot that guys can do to lift themselves out of their misery, whether self-imposed or society imposed.
1:41:11 Speaker 01 Absolutely. I think that was a great rant and well said. And I think a lot of guys are thinking, wow, that sounds so hard to lift myself up and to get into shape and to get a girlfriend and to have a better job. Like, start small. If you're not doing anything today, just go on a 30 minute walk every single day without your phone. Do that for 30 days and see how you feel. Just wake up half an hour earlier every single day and get sunlight into your eyes. Just chat to the woman at the cashier at the grocery store and see if you can make her smile or laugh. Make her day. Tell her what you like about her appearance and watch her light up. Taking these small, baby, but very important steps should not be overlooked or.
1:41:55 Speaker 01 Underappreciated. That's where you have to start and that is okay. You know, you didn't wake up here in this chair interviewing people with perfect lighting and millions of people watching. You started, you know, talking to people on the internet and
1:42:09 Chris Williamson? Accidentally turned it into a career.
1:42:10 Speaker 01 Exactly.
1:42:12 Chris Williamson? Do smart guys struggle with dating?
1:42:14 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
1:42:15 Chris Williamson? Why?
1:42:16 Speaker 01 Uh, in my experience, a lot of my clients are very smart. They're very analytical. They have high IQs and maybe not high EQs. And that's often why that translates to struggling with dating. They're overthinking everything. Rather than just saying the authentic thing that comes into their mind, they're worried, is she gonna like me if I say that? Should I say that? Is this going to impress her? And then two seconds have passed and she's looking at them, waiting for a response. And then they just blurt out, you know, something that they think is going to be agreeable. So they are consistently overthinking and oftentimes they're really good at forming intellectual connections. So they can talk about work and what they read or saw on the news, but they aren't forming the sexual or emotional connections, which is a totally different skill.
1:43:01 Chris Williamson? Hmm. How can smart guys develop those two skills?
1:43:05 Speaker 01 With practice and starting small. So it depends on where you feel like you're struggling. But oftentimes it's just becoming aware of it. When I'll talk to smart guys who are struggling with dating and I say, hey, I bet you're really good at forming intellectual connections and you can talk about A, B, and C. But I bet you oftentimes hear, I didn't feel chemistry, you're not progressing things sexually and the sexual and emotional connections are missing. They're like, oh, yeah, I never thought of it that way. Cause to them, they love having the intellectual connection. They love speaking, you know, intelligently and deeply about topics that they are passionate about. And that might be really nice and the woman might view them as, hey, he's a really smart, interesting guy.
1:43:46 Speaker 01 But I didn't feel the romantic vibe. So just being aware of it first and that there is a missing romantic vibe is often the first step. The low hanging fruit of, okay, let's take this from a meeting to a date is what I touched on before is just inserting physical touch. Creating the familiarity of being physical is a huge jump from not keeping your hands by your sides and not touching her at all. So can you make her feel comfortable? Can you make her, you know, maybe you have your hand like lightly on her lower back as she's getting to the seat and she's kind of like, oh, like you touched my lower back. Like that is flirting without saying anything and that has to be incorporated.
1:44:31 Speaker 01 So again, starting small, incorporating that. Then being playful, can you tease her? Can you say things that are a little bit silly? Can you play a game that makes you look silly and gets both of you laughing rather than just having a serious conversation? And maybe it's a good conversation and you're debating the merits of, you know, something that you actually are both passionate about, but it's not something that's getting her feeling like, hee hee, like light and girly and like she wants to be feminine and, you know, flirt with you.
1:45:03 Chris Williamson? That idea that especially smart guys over optimize for intellectualism or for kind of clever conversations. Charlie, again, from Charisma on Command, totally saw me like just fucking x-rayed through my soul when he talked about how lots of people that like having interesting conversations and spend a bit of time thinking, they always assume that the right answer to a question is the correct answer as opposed to purposefully saying something that's wrong. Or Russell Brand, Russell, I've heard that you've got a sex addiction. Is that right? I don't know if it's right, but it's definitely enjoyable.
1:45:42 Chris Williamson? It's the wrong answer, but it's actually better than the correct answer.
1:45:46 Speaker 01 Way better.
1:45:47 Chris Williamson? So much better than the correct answer. So, you know, Charlie was teaching me, he said that if you ever walk out of the house and it's particularly extreme weather, rainy, hot, cold, just say whatever the opposite is, it's the shittest dad joke ever. It's almost guaranteed to get a bit of a giggle. Is it lame? Yeah, but by saying it, you know it's lame. It's so lame that you know it's lame.
1:46:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:46:09 Chris Williamson? And the same thing goes for somebody asking a question like George, my friend who's out here currently in Austin is so great at when there's a game of tennis going. So conversation is kind of like a game of tennis. You hit the ball back and forth in a linear manner. There's a question and there's an answer and there's another question and there's an answer and it's back and forth like this and he just grabs the ball and pulls it up into the sky. It's something completely separate or it's a callback to something from half an hour ago. And it's, it always rips me out of it and it always makes me think about that Charlie Hoopit thing, which is, oh, fuck. Like, that was better. His incorrect answer was better than the correct answer to this thing.
1:46:47 Chris Williamson? Um, so I just think that, you know, purposefully being silly or incorrect with, not all the time, obviously, but especially if you're a guy, if you've just delivered a, a two-minute treatise on why Kyoto wasn't bombed by Nag- by the atomic bomb, but in fact, it was Nagasaki instead. If you've just explained that, but then a couple of sentences later, you make a silly joke, oh, wow, like, this is a guy that can do both.
1:47:14 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah. And why that works is you're making her feel something. This is an, she's having an emotion outside of what she was already feeling. She can have a, like, probably a nice conversation with just about anyone, you know, if she's a good conversationalist, but if you're giving her like an emo- I don't like, love calling it an emotional spike because that sounds like kind of pick-up artisty, but that hap- that is some, there's something to be said for that. That's what you're going for. You want her to feel things when she's talking to you or when she's with you, and that might be because you're putting your hand on her leg or because you're saying something silly or goofy that throws her for a loop. It's not just what she's expecting. Saying something or doing something that she's not expecting is actually very attractive.
1:47:54 Chris Williamson? I suppose as well that it, how many conversations does she have with the guy on the airplane, with the person at work that's married or whatever, that stays within the confines of, let me tell you about why Kyoto wasn't bombed during World War II. That's perfectly fine. The sort of lines that are crossed, where that's less common, are the sort of playful teasing of people watching, commenting on the way that a dog looks like its owner, whatever it might be. Um, that's much rarer and I suppose it helps to separate you as a guy out from all of the other dudes. The ones that aren't interested in dating, the ones that are interested in dating but aren't as interesting or as clever or whatever.
1:48:37 Speaker 01 Exactly. She's going on dates with, she's probably getting drinks and going on dates with multiple other guys, maybe even that week, especially if you met her on a dating app. And she's probably having the same conversations, what she does for work, where she's from, whether she likes the weather. So how can you incorporate topics or themes into a date, either because you're planning a unique date, that's like, even, that's what I like about a walking date. You are going to have things to see and talk about that will spark conversation outside of the mundane. We're sitting across from each other at a bar, sipping a drink. There's not anything unique happening around us. So we're left to either have the same conversation you always have, or it falls on the guy to now come up with something different. If you feel like you struggle to have different, interesting conversations, a walk can be
1:49:22 Speaker 01 helpful in facilitating that.
1:49:24 Chris Williamson? Statue, look at that bird over there, etc.
1:49:26 Speaker 01 That funny looking dog.
1:49:27 Chris Williamson? Yes.
1:49:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:49:28 Chris Williamson? What are the traits that women do and don't care about that much? Because I think what guys think women prioritize. And then there's this sense that, well, that's what they say that they care about, but actually they don't care about that. So given that you have field tested thousands of men, what are the traits that women do and don't care about that much?
1:49:50 Speaker 01 Yeah. So something that throws guys is women care a lot less about what you look like than you care about what she looks like. So yes, your appearance matters somewhat. You can't look like a slob. You need to be dressed appropriately. You want to be in decent shape. But whether you have a six pack or a dad bod, you can do equally well with women if you're hitting on the stuff that they do want. So talking about what women, what is important to them, what they do want. They want a guy who shows that he can be a provider. And that doesn't necessarily mean like you have a big paycheck and you drive a nice car, but it means that you have ambition and drive and interest to get things done. So I talk about, I tell my clients, when you're on a date, you want to talk about
1:50:35 Speaker 01 your trajectory, because it doesn't actually matter where you are today. She cares where you are going. This is why people who are in medical school and, you know, Star athletes are treated like they're in the NBA or they are doctors because that is where their trajectory says they are heading.
1:50:52 Chris Williamson? It's the starving guitarist that's sleeping on his friend's couch, but is kind of talented and in future he may become Ed Sheeran.
1:50:58 Speaker 01 Yeah, and if you can speak to that and your goals, then you're almost as good as there because that's really what she's looking for. And this goes back to having those investment areas and hobbies that we talked about. You being dedicated to going to Run Club every morning or even, you know, hosting dinner for your friends every Sunday morning, whatever it is that are your hobbies that you've developed, this shows that you have perseverance, that you care about things. That is also showing her that you can fulfill your promises. And this is why online dating is so different for men and women. A man can look at a girl's, a woman's profile and he can tell a lot about what he needs to know about her, at least enough to go on a date or to sleep with her by looking at her profile.
1:51:43 Speaker 01 And a woman cannot do the same with a man. She can exchange dozens of messages with him and still not know if he's the type of guy she wants to go on a date with because the traits that she's looking for in a man aren't discernible from photos and bio. She wants to see so much more about how he's going to be in the future, how he's going to provide, how he's going to make her feel. I talk a lot about women want three things. I break this down into three things that I then break down subsequently much further, but women want status, which we sort of just talked about. They want to feel desired and they want to have fun. And if you are missing one of these three things, you probably aren't going to be a romantic partner for her.
1:52:25 Speaker 01 So if you're high status and you're having fun, but you're not appropriately expressing your desire, like the romantic side, she might think you're an awesome guy and even really compelling, she's not going to want to sleep with you. She's not going to be romantically interested in you. Or if you're flirty and fun and you are telling her, giving her the desire point and you're having a good time with her, but she doesn't see that you have status and that you're going places. She might entertain you in the moment, but she's also not going to see you as long-term potential. So it's really building those three things distinctly and being able to then deliver them on dates and with women you're spending time with that results in getting the results you want with women and having your pick ideally of women that you're going out with that want to pursue things with you as a man.
1:53:10 Chris Williamson? Are there any other traits that guys think women care about, but is their overpricing?
1:53:17 Speaker 01 Their job. I think it's a lot less about what your job actually is and it's how you talk about it. So if you're talking about being an accountant and it's fine, it's whatever, it pays the bills, that is, that sounds lame, but if you could have the exact same job, but if you frame it in a way that I work, I do the financials for a company that changes the world, even if you don't like your job that much, that's like, oh damn, okay, he's doing important stuff. So it's less about what your job actually is and more about how you talk about it and how you feel about it matters too. Why are you spending eight hours a day doing something you don't like? That strikes me as a guy who doesn't have agency over his life and isn't taking
1:54:01 Speaker 01 control and building the life he wants.
1:54:03 Chris Williamson? I think a good get out of jail free card there because a lot of people might think, well, I don't do a cool job and I don't necessarily like it. My boss is a dick and I don't want to lie. You've said that I need to be authentic, so I can't pretend. But if you were to say something like, so I can't lie, my boss is a dick and I work really hard at the thing that I do. I'm an accountant at this big four accountancy firm. I don't think that I'm going to be there forever because my dream is to, away you go. So what I'm doing at the moment is I'm accumulating a bunch of cash within the next 18 months or so. My plan is to, like, okay, well, this is a journey and this is someone that shows.
1:54:41 Speaker 01 Initiative.
1:54:43 Chris Williamson? One of the things I guess about this, it kind of sucks that I work for a boss that's a bit of a prick, but I'm actually really proud of myself for getting through. This period, and I guess, you know, if I go into business with someone who's a prick in future, I'm kind of gonna be, I'm gonna be well set.
1:54:56 Speaker 01 What you're learning from it. Yeah, or it's, you know, it's great because it's paying the bills right now. And it allows me to spend extra time with my dog on hikes. And we're trying to summit, you know, these seven peaks this year, even if it's not professionally related, like, what is the reason that you're there? And then I would challenge you, if you, if you really can't find a positive in it, then you need to do some soul searching and rearrange, rearrange, you know.
1:55:20 Chris Williamson? Well, that's what you said about improving your life.
1:55:23 Speaker 01 Building a life you're genuinely proud of.
1:55:25 Chris Williamson? Yeah, yeah, it's not all just marketing. There is product in that.
1:55:28 Speaker 01 And the delivery, the way you said it, you know, my boss is a prick, but with like a smile on your face, you're, you're kind of playful with him. It's like, my boss is such a dick is very different where you're like, you're angry and you're letting it affect your emotions. But if you just let it roll off your back, it's all about the delivery.
1:55:45 Chris Williamson? Hell, yeah. Blaine Anderson, ladies and gentlemen. Blaine, I appreciate you. I really liked the fact that you were a fish teaching fishermen how to fish or whatever it's called. Where should people go? They want to check out all of the things.
1:55:55 Speaker 01 Yeah, you can find me across all social media, Dating by Blaine, my website, datingbyblaine.com. Any of those, get in touch. I would love to help you start meeting women you're excited about.
1:56:06 Chris Williamson? And baking bread.
1:56:07 Speaker 01 And yeah, baking or Bread by Blaine also. Find me on Instagram there.
1:56:11 Chris Williamson? All right, thank you.
1:56:12 Speaker 01 Thanks, Chris.
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