Chef Eric Ripert on the Evolution of Fine Dining, What Defines Le Bernardin’s Success, and How He Maintains Balance

Adrienne and Joe sit down inside the walls of the iconic Le Bernardin in New York City for an intimate chat with chef Eric Ripert. He tells them the secrets behind his ascent to helming one of the best restaurants in the world, including what it takes to maintain a level of excellence worthy of becoming (and remaining) a three-Michelin-starred restaurant. Plus, we discuss: How fine dining has radically changed in his time as a chef Chef Ripert’s early years learning from four of the most important chefs in the world His path to becoming executive chef at only 28 years old The unique system inside Le Bernardin’s kitchen that sets it apart Adrienne’s eight years under his tutelage and what he remembers most about her Fork It or Forget It: Peeling Strawberries (and the dreaded task of peeling peas that followed him to Le Bernardin) A five-star review of guests who brought a special gift all the way from Japan The secrets to menu development and changing over time Keeping a connection to the kitchen and the routine that makes him successful Who makes better paella: Chef Ripert or José Andrés? Follow Eric: @ericripert Follow the show: @chefscutpod Follow Adrienne: @chefadriennecheatham Follow Joe: @insta.flamm

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Adrienne Cheatham?

  Welcome back to another episode of The Chef's Cut. I'm Adrian Cheatham.

• 0:05Joe Flamm?

  And I am Joe Flamm. Adrian, this is one I've been looking forward to for a while.

• 0:11Adrienne Cheatham?

  This is gonna be probably our most epic interview yet.

• 0:15Joe Flamm?

  You can explain to everyone where we are sitting right now.

• 0:18Adrienne Cheatham?

  So if you're not familiar with this space, this is the library at none other than Le Bernardin. Today, Joe and I are gonna be sitting down and talking with Chef Eric Repair, one of the few chefs in the country to consistently hold three Michelin stars, four New York Times stars, top of La L'Is, top 10 in World's 50 Best, pretty much every accolade that you can have, James Beard winner, everything.

• 0:45Joe Flamm?

  Everything.

• 0:46Adrienne Cheatham?

  Everything, and then some. Anything that could be won, this man has won. This restaurant has garnered all the accolades.

• 0:53Joe Flamm?

  I am beyond excited for this one.

• 0:56Adrienne Cheatham?

  Well, today, we are gonna talk to Chef Repair about so many things. What it took to get to where he is, how he sustains himself.

• 1:04Joe Flamm?

  Definitely get a walk-in confession going. I think just talking about his leadership philosophy in general, there's just so much to unpack here, so I think we should get into it.

• 1:13Adrienne Cheatham?

  Let's go, because this is gonna be a fun one.

• 1:18Adrienne Cheatham?

  Chef Eric, thank you so, so much for joining us. It is so great to kind of like be home and to see you and to have this opportunity to sit down and talk with you.

• 1:27Speaker 02

  Thank you very much. I'm so happy that you came back to Le Bernardin. We're gonna have a good discussion in our library.

• 1:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  I love this library. This was like my favorite place to hang out if I was trying to hide from the kitchen.

• 1:38Joe Flamm?

  So to start it off, I got, I mean, first question I gotta ask. What was Adrian like as a cook on your line? Did you like her right away? Or do you still not like her? Did it take some time, you know?

• 1:50Speaker 02

  I like everybody to begin with.

• 1:54Speaker 02

  But Adrian worked eight years at Le Bernardin. So it's a long time. And Adrian, you were sous chef when you left us.

• 2:03Adrienne Cheatham?

  Technically, I was exec sous.

• 2:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:05Adrienne Cheatham?

  Because we had just opened Privay and everybody got a bump up.

• 2:08Speaker 02

  So you you were executive sous chef, which is a big position. And we don't give those positions lightly. You have to earn it. When Adrian came to Le Bernardin, she did all the stations, mastered all the techniques that need to be known and and she understood the sauce station, which is a very difficult station, and then started to manage the team brilliantly. And we traveled together. You were you were going to Cayman, you Cayman Island, where we have a restaurant. So it was a great pleasure to collaborate with you and and for you to be part of the of the team.

• 2:46Adrienne Cheatham?

  I was a little worried about that question.

• 2:48Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, I was really hoping he was gonna slam you on just like, oh, yeah.

• 2:51Speaker 02

  We don't slam anyone at Le Bernardin. It's a civilized restaurant and kitchen.

• 2:56Joe Flamm?

  You can tell, like, up there, it's so, it just felt like everything was so dialed and smooth and like that.

• 3:01Adrienne Cheatham?

  Everybody's always so focused.

• 3:03Speaker 02

  You need to be focused and disciplined. And that the secret of being able to to do the job the right way.

• 3:13Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, I remember somebody telling me when I started, I can't remember if it was you or or one of the other chefs, but said, like, learn your station. You don't know a station until you've worked it for all four seasons. And you see the same ingredient change, the capsaicin in a pepper grows in this season, day by day. Everything is different, so you have to pay attention. And so this was the first restaurant that I worked at where I really slowed down and really had to focus. So that was a little hard for me because I was so nervous when I started. Because, Joe, I don't know if you know, but I wanted to go to Charlie Trotter after culinary school. I wanted to go home to Chicago.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, which was a good idea, too.

• 3:56Adrienne Cheatham?

  But I wasn't, you know, I wasn't so sure and I said, okay, well, it's either Charlie Trotter or what's the number one restaurant in New York? That's, those are my only two options. I'm only going for like whatever the best I can find. And I was closer to La Bernardine, living in New York. So I came by twice a week and kept dropping off my resume. I kept leaving it. I was stalking, Mandy, your assistant at the time. I'm stalking everybody, the host, the GM, everybody, just passing out my resume.

• 4:25Speaker 02

  That's good. When you have something in your mind, you make it happen.

• 4:29Adrienne Cheatham?

  And then you eventually got the call back to do my internship here. And I was like, I saw the kitchen. It was unlike any restaurant I had worked at. Everything else was casual or more, or smaller. The volume, the intensity, the precision. I was like, oh, I need to, I need to get my shit together.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  Well, you need to adapt, obviously, to a big kitchen like that. It's a very different ambience than a small restaurant with five cooks on the line and a chef. Here we have about twenty-five, thirty cooks working at the same time in a kind of a tight space. And everybody has to know how to move and how to interact with the others. And everybody has to be kind because it's difficult. It's difficult because it's a lot of pressure from the rhythm of the service and it's a lot of pressure because of the standards that we have. And as you all know, kitchens are hot and humid and slippery with sharp objects, everything.

• 5:30Speaker 02

  I mean, you have to, you have to be cautious and, and you have to learn how to live in this kind of environment. Nobody was born with knife skills, as we know. And nobody's born with understanding a big kitchen with the codes and the way you're supposed to interact with others.

• 5:49Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah. And it's, it's so cool, like even getting the cadence of calling out orders. Because the restaurants I had worked in before had printers. So the cadence of watching the board, listening for the callouts, that was so different. But it was really cool because it really taught my mind to focus on different things. And I learned quickly that when they call that out, they're talking to me, so I need to hurry up and move.

• 6:13Speaker 02

  Yes. Well, it's, I like that system that we have because obviously, so we, we receive the tickets and then the chef calls the tickets. And when the chef calls the ticket, we have in the kitchen two sections, appetizers and main course section. But when he calls the ticket, let's say you are in appetizer, he's gonna set the dishes and then he's waiting for everybody to say yes, until he hear all the voices that are supposed to be working together to make a table, he's gonna repeat the ticket.

• 6:49Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 6:50Speaker 02

  For instance, if he's calling the table and he doesn't listen your voice and you're supposed to do a dish, he's gonna ask you why you didn't say yes chef. Because the idea is to have everybody working together and the last thing you want, it's a table of four with three dishes and you're missing one.

• 7:08Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 7:08Speaker 02

  So that's why we have this system of announcing and having the chef saying yes chef and no one is speaking except saying yes chef or announcing the ticket. And then you have the tickets on the front of you on the board as well, just in case if you need to pick and make sure that you are fine.

• 7:30Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 7:30Joe Flamm?

  Is it handwritten tickets up there? Is that what I saw? Still handwritten?

• 7:34Speaker 02

  Handwritten.

• 7:35Joe Flamm?

  That's incredible.

• 7:36Speaker 02

  Well, the reason we do that is because we have a system that is a bit different than what the computer can do still today. The cooks that are on the line of the main course do not move from there, but someone bring them the fish that they're supposed to cook. And therefore, when the captain write a ticket, he has one for himself for his station, one for the back waiter that's gonna confirm what goes on the tray, one for the chef who's gonna announce the ticket, and one ticket also for someone who in a station called the fish pass. And he's gonna look and he's gonna say, oh, I have to bring the fish to those individuals,

• 8:21Speaker 02

  one for the saute station, one for the poaching station and so on. So because we need so many pieces of paper, the printer cannot do that, it has to be done by hand.

• 8:30Joe Flamm?

  I love that.

• 8:31Adrienne Cheatham?

  I love it. Because on the entree line, you don't have to set up your station with proteins. You're purely focused on service.

• 8:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 8:38Adrienne Cheatham?

  And then even when the ticket comes in and the fish pass brings you your proteins, you're like, I know exactly what's coming up. Two black bass were brought together, so when chef says fire two black bass, I know. You know, it like sets you up. You can see it without having to read the ticket and take your focus off of cooking.

• 8:55Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 8:55Adrienne Cheatham?

  So I love that system.

• 8:57Speaker 02

  And I love that system too because it's pure efficiency. The cooks who are supposed to be in their station and cook are not walking all over the kitchen. They stay where they are and they can focus and be efficient. And it's less traffic in the kitchen, less traffics mean.

• 9:16Adrienne Cheatham?

  Less accidents.

• 9:17Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 9:20Adrienne Cheatham?

  Chef, we're gonna get into our first segment.

• 9:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:23Adrienne Cheatham?

  And we like to call this one fork it or forget it. Fork it means that you like it.

• 9:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 9:28Adrienne Cheatham?

  Forget it means no, it's not your thing.

• 9:30Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 9:31Adrienne Cheatham?

  So I want to know your opinion on peeling strawberries.

• 9:40Speaker 02

  Well, it's both.

• 9:42Adrienne Cheatham?

  Ah.

• 9:43Speaker 02

  Have you tried the peeled strawberry?

• 9:45Adrienne Cheatham?

  I actually have not.

• 9:46Joe Flamm?

  I have.

• 9:47Speaker 02

  So Jose Andres is the one who started with the peeled strawberries, right?

• 9:51Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, because there's seeds on the outside, right?

• 9:53Speaker 02

  Yes, so when you peel the strawberry and when you test it, the texture is really, really different. Very smooth. Now, if you're peeling strawberries for four people and the strawberry is gonna go in a cocktail on the side of the glass, it's perfect. Now, if you're gonna eat strawberries with whipped cream or something like that, I don't think it's a good idea.

• 10:15Adrienne Cheatham?

  You're not gonna macerate peeled strawberries.

• 10:18Speaker 02

  I mean, so Jose Andres is very animated about his peeled strawberries. And I love to eat one or two or do one with him, but after that, forget it.

• 10:31Adrienne Cheatham?

  Ah.

• 10:32Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, if, yeah, if Jose Andres is peeling them for me, I'll eat as many as he wants, but I don't think.

• 10:38Speaker 02

  He likes to delegate.

• 10:42Joe Flamm?

  I think like it's that old school kind of, you know, the like everything, you know, nothing should have seeds and everything should be peeled of the fine dietated. And I remember, I think I was, I was somewhere in Italy and it was like peeling blanched asparagus just down to the like just the top layer, just the top layer, like with a paring knife.

• 11:00Speaker 02

  But speaking about peeling, I mean, when I was in the kitchen of Joel Robichaud in the 1980s, one day he told us to peel the peas. And it was the first time that we, we thought he was joking. It was the first time that I heard anyone asking to peel the peas and then to remove the little sprout.

• 11:21Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 11:22Speaker 02

  So we thought he was joking. We laughed with him.

• 11:24Adrienne Cheatham?

  But we had to do that here.

• 11:25Speaker 02

  Yes, we did it here. Much later on, we did it here too. But it was something that I'd never heard of and I was shocked. But then when you test them with the skin and you test them without the skin is a huge difference.

• 11:39Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah. There was a dish that we had in the spring that was the spring pea risotto.

• 11:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:44Adrienne Cheatham?

  With the risotto liquid. I used to have to peel two six pans, which is like three quarts of peas for each service.

• 11:52Joe Flamm?

  The double shot face?

• 11:53Adrienne Cheatham?

  I got so fast, I learned how to be ambidextrous.

• 11:56Speaker 02

  But again, it makes a huge difference.

• 11:58Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, it does. You're right, the texture on that. But I think I'm gonna forget it personally on that one for, for peeling strawberries. I don't know if I have the patience. I mean, I'll tornay a potato. I don't know if I'm gonna turn a strawberry.

• 12:11Joe Flamm?

  What are you tornayin' potatoes for at this point in your life?

• 12:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  Very little. Just to see if I still got it.

• 12:17Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 12:18Speaker 02

  Seven faces.

• 12:19Adrienne Cheatham?

  Equal curve.

• 12:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, they have to be perfect.

• 12:21Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah. So chef, we're gonna go to our next segment, which we like to call Review Review. We sometimes beat up on people who leave reviews on restaurants, on platforms, but once in a while, we will ask for a story of five star guest behavior.

• 12:38Joe Flamm?

  And we felt like coming to you, we're like, you're such a positive guy. We can't have, you know, Chef Repair on here, you know, beating up on a one star review. We're like, this is, this is a temple of positivity. So we thought like this would be an excellent one for a nice one of like a five star guest reviewer interaction you've had lately that just, it's those ones that come through our door and you're like, oh man, that like, you know, reminds you why this is so great.

• 12:58Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 12:59Speaker 02

  Well, today we had some Japanese clients who came to Le Bernardin for lunch. And at the end, they left me this gorgeous knife.

• 13:10Adrienne Cheatham?

  That is beautiful.

• 13:12Speaker 02

  And you can see the blade is like engraved. It's a special metal.

• 13:18Adrienne Cheatham?

  Like the Kasumi.

• 13:19Speaker 02

  And then you can see the craftsmanship here of the metal.

• 13:24Adrienne Cheatham?

  Inside the hills, wow.

• 13:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, and the tree is thousand years old. So this is, I think, a great review.

• 13:35Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, I'm always happy when someone shows up with a knife for me.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  But I have very often nice gifts from the clients. And sometimes also the clients are thinking about the team, which is very nice.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  Sometimes it's barbecue for lunch for the entire team of Le Bernardin. Or special sandwiches. We have a client who sent us muffin latte from New Orleans. In gold belly packages. And we have that again for the kitchen and the dining room. I think it's really nice.

• 14:10Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, nothing better than a kitchen snack.

• 14:11Adrienne Cheatham?

  I remember somebody sent white truffles one time when I was working here. And so we made scrambled eggs for family meal. It was like a late night family meal. And we just shaved white truffles over a whole hotel pan with a sprinkle of chives.

• 14:25Speaker 02

  It sounds pretty good. I wasn't there, but I wish I would have known.

• 14:33Joe Flamm?

  We had, my old truffle guy used to give me a truffle for Christmas every year. And so we would save it for after service the night before Christmas. I would order like a cheap cheese pizza. And we just shaved the whole truffle over one cheese pizza. And just like all that fat grease coming off the pizza, the truffles would just soak into it. And it was like the best, like an absolute feast.

• 14:55Speaker 02

  I like the idea of a pizza with truffles.

• 14:57Adrienne Cheatham?

  And I like these stories of like good guest behavior. Because there are so many positive interactions. There are so many great diners who really just want to experience a restaurant. Enjoy the ambiance, enjoy the staff, enjoy the food. And sometimes we don't focus enough on that. We always talk about the people who have bad things to say on social media platforms. And they leave bad reviews for things that are outside of the control. Like I couldn't get a reservation, so I leave a one star review.

• 15:26Speaker 02

  So you see? To avoid this kind of frustration and potential stress, I do not go to those sites and I do not read any of those reviews. That way, we do our work the best we can and we get the rewards, when we get rewards like this one today with the knife, and we get comments from the guests. Generally, they're happy and again, sometimes they leave us gifts, sometimes they don't, but for us, just to say, "I had a great meal, it was a very nice experience," it's a fantastic gift.

• 15:57Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 15:58Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, that is.

• 15:59Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, whenever people are like, "Oh," they're like, "You know, you're probably sick of hearing it, but we loved it." It's like, we're never sick of hearing that.

• 16:04Speaker 02

  No.

• 16:04Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, we're sick of hearing people where they have problems with it, but it's like, when everybody's happy with it, it's like, that never gets old. I love hearing that. It's always incredible.

• 16:12Adrienne Cheatham?

  Next up, Joe, I think we have... Now, this is one of my favorite segments, especially because you are such a mentor. This is gonna be the Mentor Moment, which is actually sponsored by the San Pellegrino Young Chefs Academy.

• 16:24Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 16:24Adrienne Cheatham?

  So, we thought that it would be fun to ask you some questions about mentorship, because you have been such a mentor in my career. So, we get to ask you about mentors that you had in your career. Who were some of the most influential chefs that had an impact on you and your approach to food?

• 16:43Speaker 02

  I have been very lucky, because I worked for four important chefs that brought a different element in my knowledge as a chef. So, my first job after culinary school was in La Tour d'Argent, which was a very traditional restaurant, 400 years old in 1982, celebrating their 400-year anniversary. And the chef there was Dominique Boucher at the time, and they really taught me the classics. The classics in terms of every aspect of the kitchen. The way the brigade is broken down into different stations, to mastering the sauce, mastering cooking vegetables and so on,

• 17:27Speaker 02

  and knife skills a certain way. So, I learned all the basics and that's... If you learn the basics very young in your career, you're basically building the pyramid. If you're missing that, you will never be able to put the top of the pyramid. From La Tour d'Argent, I moved to Joël Robuchon later on. And Joël Robuchon was considered by the industry in France, he was considered like God.

• 17:57Adrienne Cheatham?

  Still kind of is.

• 17:59Speaker 02

  He was very demanding, very tough, very difficult with himself and with the team. But from him, I learned discipline, rigor, I had the basics. And then he taught me a different kind of cuisine, very refined, different flavors. He was way ahead of everybody else at the time in terms of introducing Japanese influence into French cooking at the high level, at the three-star Michelin level. So Joel Robuchon was very, very important in my life. Also, I was in a fish station for two years with him.

• 18:42Speaker 02

  So obviously, it had a huge impact at the end when I came to Le Bernard.

• 18:47Speaker 02

  Because I learned the techniques the right way with him. And I had this kind of understanding of how to cook seafood, because seafood is very delicate, as we know. From Joel Robuchon, which was very, again, formal and difficult kitchen, I went to Jean-Louis Paladin at the Watergate Hotel. Watergate famous for another story, but Jean-Louis Paladin was very well-known in the US. He was one of the first French chefs to become very famous in our industry.

• 19:21Adrienne Cheatham?

  There's a picture of him right there.

• 19:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's right here. And Jean-Louis was really doing farm-to-table before farm-to-table existed. And he would go to Maine and go with the scuba divers and go down in the water and bring back the sea urchins and bring back the scallops and say, "Look, that scallop is better because the one that comes from the boat has been trawled and this one has been harvested by hand." So Jean-Louis Paladin had a huge influence on me in understanding...

• 19:55Speaker 02

  The quality of the product, where they come from. And also, Robuchon was very sophisticated in his style of presentations. Jean-Louis Palladins was like, "Look, when you slice a leg of lamb, it's so beautiful, the leg of lamb by itself. You don't have much to put in it. You don't need to put flowers and dots and things. Just do a great jus, master it or sauce. The lamb has to be cooked perfectly. And add a nice garnish that's gonna complement it, but don't go too fussy."

• 20:26Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 20:27Speaker 02

  And I like that, that style. And also, Jean-Louis Palladins was very artistic and his kitchen was very funky in many ways, especially after Robuchon. When I entered Le Bernardin in 1991, Gilbert Le Coss was very well-known for being the chef of Le Bernardin and mastering seafood. And he taught me... I knew how to cook fish already again because of Robuchon and Jean-Louis Palladins and my previous experiences. But he really taught me how to manage a big team and how to be an inspiration. I learned with Jean-Louis Palladins also creativity. Because with Robuchon, you were not able to be creative. You had to duplicate exactly what he wanted.

• 21:11Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, no deviation.

• 21:13Speaker 02

  Not at all, not. But Jean-Louis Palladins was like, "Hey, listen, you have to be artistic. You have to open your mind. I'll give you freedom. Go ahead, show me. If it's good, we work together and put it on the menu and so on." So when I came to Le Bernardin, Gilbert Le Coss basically crystallized everything. All my previous experiences suddenly became one. And I was a very young chef when I started at Le Bernardin. I was 24.

• 21:38Joe Flamm?

  Wow.

• 21:39Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, you became CDC when you were like 26, right?

• 21:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:42Adrienne Cheatham?

  My gosh.

• 21:43Joe Flamm?

  That's incredible.

• 21:44Adrienne Cheatham?

  It's crazy.

• 21:44Joe Flamm?

  So I was always curious, like, so you come, you know, you go from France to DC. When you came to Washington DC, did you want to get to New York eventually? Or was that just happenstance? You just ended up in New York?

• 21:56Speaker 02

  I was dying to come to New York. Washington DC was so boring. I mean, it was only politicians and lawyers over there and few bankers. I think the last call was at two o'clock.

• 22:08Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh.

• 22:09Speaker 02

  Um, on the weekend and midnight during the week or something like that. And then in New York, they were partying all the time and I was twenty something years old. And I was like, I wanna, I wanna get out of Washington. I wanna, I wanna go to New York. It's fun. And, uh, and then Jean-Louis Palladin helped me to, um, to come to New York.

• 22:27Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes. Did you also do a little time at Boulay?

• 22:30Speaker 02

  Yes, I worked for a short period with David Boulay. We didn't really get along too well. So I, my stint there was about six months and, and I left to come to Le Bernardin.

• 22:41Adrienne Cheatham?

  Nice. Well, I mean, you definitely came to the right place.

• 22:44Speaker 02

  But David was very talented, I have to say, and his food was phenomenal. And I was very impressed by the quality of the dishes, the quality of the products. Uh, I give him full credit for that.

• 22:55Joe Flamm?

  And then when you got to New York, was it ever like, I'm gonna be here and then I'm gonna go back to France one day? Or once you're in New York, you're like, I'm gonna be in New York forever?

• 23:03Speaker 02

  When I did my interview with Gilbert Le Causse and his sister Maggie Le Causse, they asked me, what is your, uh, I mean, what is your vision? And I say, well, I'm thinking to stay three years at Le Bernardin and then I'm going back to Europe. And I think I'm gonna open a restaurant in Spain. That was it.

• 23:18Adrienne Cheatham?

  Other plans happened. Wow.

• 23:22Speaker 02

  After that, uh, nothing happened. I never went back to open a restaurant in Spain and.

• 23:26Joe Flamm?

  You still working on that one, baby, next year?

• 23:28Speaker 02

  I'm in nineteen ninety-one and we are in two thousand twenty-five, you see? It's a long time.

• 23:32Adrienne Cheatham?

  Long time. That is so cool.

• 23:34Speaker 02

  Thirty-four years.

• 23:35Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, it's, you know, when you start off in a career, especially something like the food industry, there are so many different paths and so many different opportunities. So you can have one thing in mind, but it is gonna change and you have to be open to it if it's a good match.

• 23:49Speaker 02

  Yes, of course. Well, also, I mean, at Le Bernardin, I, I learn a lot.

• 23:56Speaker 02

  And then Gilbert Le Coz passed away three years later. And then Maggie Le Coz asked me to stay with her. And to help her to keep Le Bernardin at the level where it was. And that was a big challenge. And it took me a few years of really focusing on making sure that we were a great restaurant. And we were already five years into it. And then Maggie Le Coz asked me if I wanted to be a business partner. And then I liked the idea a little bit. And then, you know, everything evolved and evolved and evolved. And then you realize thirty four years later, you're still here. But we are reinventing Le Bernardin as much as we can in terms of steps of service.

• 24:41Speaker 02

  And of course, with the dishes. We have done three renovations, physical renovations of the restaurant. As you know, it costs a lot of money to renovate restaurants. But Le Bernardin of nineteen eighty six was not Le Bernardin of the two thousands. And two thousand twenty five is definitely not the same Le Bernardin physically in terms of decor. Service again has evolved tremendously and our dishes as well.

• 25:08Adrienne Cheatham?

  How do you work with staff nowadays? We've heard a lot that, you know, cooks nowadays, the pipeline is very, very different for cooks coming into the kitchen. So what qualities make somebody stand out to you in the kitchen? Do you see like this will be somebody who sticks with it and is a sous chef here? Or will go on in their career and really work hard?

• 25:32Speaker 02

  Well, we, so in the team, we have people with a lot of experience and we have people who are beginners. And it's a little bit like, I guess, like a football team where you have the stars and then you have the guys who pass the ball.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  So the beginners, some of them are in school and they stay six months and they go back to the school, some of them have graduated, but they are beginners. I'm looking for someone who's a team player, someone who can work with the rest of the individuals in the kitchen. That's very, very important. And then obviously that person has to have good knife skills and basics, but we can teach that. Discipline is very important. So I like, I like the cooks to be shaved every day, to be clean every day, to, um, to have shoes that are proper and so on.

• 26:31Speaker 02

  And then we work with them and we bring them to the next level and we change them from station to station and, and at the end, the ones who master the sauce are the ones that have basically learned all the basics here. So they are the ones who are the most disciplined, hard workers, smart, they have a gift, they have a palate, they know, and that, that is a quality that you have or you don't have. Some people are very good at craftsmanship, but they don't have that quality. Like people have good eyes, people have good ears, some people are a bit deaf, some are a bit blind, test birth is the same.

• 27:16Speaker 02

  So when someone has that and when they are sous chefs and when they are managing the team, we, we have clicked all the qualities of those individuals and we have seen them in many different occasions and, and mentor them.

• 27:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  There was this one moment, and Joe, I don't know if I've ever told you this story, but there was this like perfect storm that happened one year when I was a junior or mid level sous chef here at Le Verneur Den and the chef de cuisine and the exec sous at the time were both out of town. You were coming back from Japan. And then the chef Eric Justel had someone unfortunately in his family passed away. And he had to rush to the hospital with his wife. And there was one day of service that it was like, oh, my God, Adrian is the only the only sous chef here at Le Bernardin.

• 28:17Adrienne Cheatham?

  So you got that phone call and you immediately changed your flight to come back early. But when I was running the kitchen and I was pretty much running the whole pass.

• 28:26Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 28:26Adrienne Cheatham?

  Because Eric Justel had to leave like after lunch service. So I was running the whole pass for dinner service. And you came rushing back from out of town and then when you walked into the kitchen. I was so nervous. But you let me continue service, you didn't jump in, you checked tickets, you tasted, you walked around, you did everything. And then the next day, I closed out, you stayed for the rest of the night, you stayed in the kitchen, but you didn't interfere with the flow, you let me continue with the team as we had begun the night. And then the next day I got called into the office and I was like, oh, my God, we must have had so many complaints last night. I am gonna get fired. This is gonna be the worst thing.

• 29:07Adrienne Cheatham?

  And then the chef at the time, Chris, wrote this on the back of a piece of paper. And he said, this is what Chef Repair said to me, wow. When he came into the kitchen and I like, I mean, my tears like just started flowing. He said.

• 29:24Speaker 02

  Well, you did a good job.

• 29:25Adrienne Cheatham?

  That you were so, and I felt like that was one of those moments where everything clicked. The tasting, the temping, not letting a single dish leave the kitchen without checking it.

• 29:35Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 29:36Adrienne Cheatham?

  You know, you catch a piece of plastic on the pounded tuna, you catch a piece of fish that's and if you don't taste everything, if you don't check everything, you're lowering your standards because you're stressed.

• 29:45Speaker 02

  Oh, for sure.

• 29:46Adrienne Cheatham?

  So that was that moment that everything that I had learned from all those stations and all the standards that I had been taught to hold clicked for me and I felt, I mean, that was like, I can die happy after that service. I felt so, I was so proud.

• 30:00Speaker 02

  After that.

• 30:01Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, it was a few more years after that. But that was the first time that I really felt like I got it. So that was such a huge moment for me. And then we spoke about it and you kind of, you know, told me some of the qualities that I need to work on as a sous chef to continue developing. But you said, you've got those basics, you've got those qualities. So you can only improve on them from here and that meant so much.

• 30:25Speaker 02

  Absolutely, I remember that.

• 30:28Adrienne Cheatham?

  It's so crazy, it's like everybody's out of town.

• 30:30Joe Flamm?

  Well, I think that's like, I don't know, I feel like people who have great connections with their mentors. I'm such, you know, lucky, I have a great connection with Tony Montuato, who's a mentor to me, a great friend. But like, at some point, you know, you all showed us a great level of trust along the way. And I think that's so important, is that, you know what I mean? We put our trust in you, right? We work hard for you, we do what you say, we believe in your system. But at some point, I think the great mentors I've been lucky enough to be under, they give you that trust back in a major way one day, they say, okay. And you know, walking into the kitchen and not grabbing the board and like letting, you know, Adrian like, live in that moment of like, like, like, you know, almost like a child of like,

• 31:12Joe Flamm?

  I'm not gonna let you get hospital hurt, but I'll let you get a little injured right now if you have to learn your lesson. And I think like, it's such an undervalued, or I think underspoken about thing of, of great mentors of what they all do, is they give you trust and they let you go out there. And I think it's, it's so massively important.

• 31:32Speaker 02

  Someone who doesn't trust and who doesn't delegate is not a good mentor. And is not really going far because by yourself, you can do so little.

• 31:46Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, you can't cook 28 dishes at one time, no matter how good you are, it's not gonna work. How have you seen fine dining change in your time in this?

• 31:58Speaker 02

  Well, fine dining has changed a lot in terms of service, especially in Europe, but also in the US. Because fine dining was dominated at the time, I'm talking about in the 80s, in the 90s. Fine dining at the time was dominated by the Europeans and the French, especially for fine dining. And the service in the dining room was very formal, extremely formal. The waiters would never really interact with the client. And would have a posture in a dining room that was like very rigid. They were not supposed to. To be very relaxed.

• 32:40Speaker 02

  They were supposed to walk a certain way, almost like robots. They were supposed to approach the table a certain way and describe the dishes, but was no interaction with the clients. That doesn't exist anymore. The waiters today are in fine dining, are very welcoming, very engaging. They read the mind of the clients and know who are their client. I'm not talking only about Le Bernardin, I'm talking in general. But I see in fine dining restaurants, people coming for their anniversary, birthday, on a date, closing a deal, a foodies. And if I can see it, I know that the waiters see them as well.

• 33:25Speaker 02

  When you have a couple and they are barely acknowledging the food, you know they are on a romantic date.

• 33:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  Do you mean they're making out at the table?

• 33:38Speaker 02

  I didn't say that, but they could if they were, I mean, it's fine. But it would be for part for the waiter to go in the middle and start to speak about the story of the black bass, where it's coming from, who caught him and who brought him.

• 33:49Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, let them have their moments.

• 33:51Speaker 02

  So today, the service is customized to the need of the clients. And again, very engaging. So it's a lot of dialogue. Like if someone is a foodie and you start to see the person with the camera taking pictures for social media or themselves and asking questions, right away it creates a relationship. And then, in terms of the food in the kitchen, it has changed tremendously because in the eighties, we were still... Well, seventies were a little bit of a revolution with the nouvelle cuisine. But seventies, eighties were interesting because they were... The food was heavy, very rich.

• 34:35Speaker 02

  And even with nouvelle cuisine, that was much lighter than Escoffier style, it was still very heavy. Today, the food is very fresh because of technology and the way we transport, we catch and transport the food or harvest, forage and transportation, refrigeration and so on.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  The ingredients are very, very delicious and of very high quality. And therefore, they don't need to be

• 35:08Speaker 02

  dressed too much and in excess. And therefore, the style of cooking is much lighter. And it enhances the qualities of those ingredients very often. So that has changed a lot. And then, of course, you have a lot of influence from different countries.

• 35:30Speaker 02

  Today, in a city like New York, chefs travel quite a bit. And we go to Asia, we go to Europe, we go to South America, we travel inside the US. We see so much influence. And that has created a fusion. That is a very interesting and smart fusion. But forty years ago, you would have never seen Japanese influence and French cooking together, or Italian and Peruvian. It was considered silly and not really understood and appreciated. But today, we see those

• 36:11Speaker 02

  those fusions. And it's delicious and it's smart. And that is what's happening in our industry. So we have seen all those changes over the years, in between the hospitality, the welcoming and the service and the food.

• 36:28Adrienne Cheatham?

  But I love that the standard is always high, like the standard has not changed.

• 36:31Joe Flamm?

  The standard is the standard, right?

• 36:33Speaker 02

  Stand, I mean, it's very simple, it's bad food and it's good food.

• 36:36Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 36:38Speaker 02

  Same for the service.

• 36:39Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, pretty much. How do you balance innovation with restraint? So you talked about like Jean-Louis Palladin taught you the beauty of simplicity and not doing too much.

• 36:52Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 36:52Adrienne Cheatham?

  How do you balance innovating with keeping that approach of beautiful simplicity?

• 36:58Speaker 02

  So simplicity is the style of Le Bernardin. You will never see in our plates, although

• 37:05Speaker 02

  visuals are very important because the first contact with the dish is the eyes. So therefore, the dish cannot really look bad, even if it's delicious, it has to look good. But

• 37:18Speaker 02

  At Le Bernardin, you will never see a dish with dots and flowers and mini flowers and mini leaves and mini... just for presentation. Whatever goes in a dish has a function, has a role to play. Whatever is in a dish is supposed to elevate the quality of the seafood that we are cooking because we are a seafood restaurant. Now, I travel quite a bit, members of the team travel quite a bit. They also eat in many other places and see interesting flavors and ingredients and they bring it back. So we, we basically evolve with our experience.

• 38:03Speaker 02

  The experience that we have during those trips and dinners and meals influence the way we're gonna think about new recipes. But we have a mantra that says the fish is the star of the plate, that you know very well. But that mantra dictates the simplicity because if you're gonna cook, let's say, a lobster and you're gonna have 25 ingredients and out of the 25, 15 is just to bring color and a nice design in your plate, you lost your lobster. The lobster is very delicate, the texture is very delicate as well when it's properly cooked.

• 38:46Speaker 02

  And I, I think it's important to focus on the perfection of the technique of cooking and the perfection of making the sauce that will, again, elevate the lobster to the next level, make it better than by itself. And if we're putting a garnish in that dish, it has to complement, again, the lobster and not clash with it.

• 39:09Joe Flamm?

  I just love your level of, like, I feel like... Everything feels so intentional, like it's just like a masterclass of it. Just like from the way you described the tickets to like this person stands here so they can bring him the fish. And it's, it's like, I think it's in, you know, the old Marco Pierre Whitebrook where he's like, you know, the difference between good restaurants and great restaurants isn't big things, but it's doing all the little things well. And it's just like, I, I don't know, it's just, it's, it's like intoxicating listening to you talk about it. Cause it's like every little detail.

• 39:40Adrienne Cheatham?

  Well, the accent also.

• 39:41Joe Flamm?

  It's just, yeah, that helps.

• 39:43Speaker 02

  You're gonna need a translator.

• 39:45Joe Flamm?

  But like that, it's just like, there's just intention in every single thing from how, you know, we put the dishes together, to how the lines organized to the tickets. And it's just, um, it's just incredible. It just, you know, it feels like through that evolution, you never lost that intention and just kept through it. And that's what's kept this place so incredible and special for so long.

• 40:06Adrienne Cheatham?

  And it's crazy. It's like, we can say it's simple, but I can tell you from working here, there is nothing simple about it.

• 40:12Joe Flamm?

  I stayed in that kitchen for, for 10 minutes and I was like,

• 40:15Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 40:16Joe Flamm?

  I was like, there's nothing simple about this.

• 40:18Adrienne Cheatham?

  It's like the beautiful simplicity, but there's so much attention that goes into each component. So you get those nuances of flavor and texture, but it's not overdone. And like you said, nothing is on the plate that doesn't belong there to enhance everything else. And that's the whole point of it.

• 40:32Joe Flamm?

  But it's simple, like a sunset simple. It's like, yeah, it's simple. It's a simple concept. It's like, but try to recreate this shit.

• 40:38Speaker 02

  Cooking without safety nets. Because if you miss one technique, or if you miss the seasoning or something like that, it's nothing to save the dish. Because it appears so simple, you have no,

• 40:53Joe Flamm?

  There's nothing to hide behind.

• 40:55Speaker 02

  No room for mistakes.

• 40:56Joe Flamm?

  Yeah. That's why I love Italian food too. I feel like it's so like, you know, it's like there's four things in this dish. Those four aren't perfect. Like this dish is not good.

• 41:05Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 41:08Adrienne Cheatham?

  Now, we were talking to Legaya Mashan, the chief critic at The New York Times, and talking about growing and evolving and changing, but also talking about maintaining that standard. And a lot of chefs cannot or have had a hard time maintaining the pressure. New York has three, four New York Times star restaurants, five, three Michelin star restaurants. Le Bernardin is consistently in that top tier of restaurants, La List, Michelin, 50 Best. Everything you can think of, Le Bernardin attains it and maintains it, which is incredibly difficult. So to do that year after year,

• 41:51Adrienne Cheatham?

  how do you personally stay centered? And what keeps you motivated to hold that pressure but not deviate from your standards?

• 42:03Speaker 02

  Well, I never forgot why I am a chef. I am a chef because I like to be in the kitchen. I like to be with the team. I like to be able to create an experience that is special for the clients. And when I was young, I loved to eat good food and then I loved to cook. And I never forgot that. So therefore, my focus is almost solely on Le Bernardin, professionally wise, right? And so I never opened 50 restaurants or bars and so on. And my lifestyle is very simple. From my house, I come to Le Bernardin. On the morning, I walk through Central Park,

• 42:47Speaker 02

  which is very relaxing. Well, previously to that, I wake up at 6:00 in the morning and do meditation. And that prepares me for the day. Then I spend time, quality time, with my family. And then I leave the family. I walk in Central Park. I arrive at Le Bernardin. I say hello to every employee. And then I spend a bit of time in the kitchen before service. And then as soon as the service starts, I am with the team every day. And I want to make sure that we are on the right path. And I want to make sure that the techniques are fine and everybody is OK and we have the team. And when I am comfortable with that, I come downstairs.

• 43:32Speaker 02

  I do a little bit of work in offices. And then I go back upstairs at night and I again observe and participate with the team in the in the quality of the service and making sure that everything's fine. And then during the week I go home and I relax. On the weekends I have my days off and I spend time with the family again and go visit other restaurants or cook at home. So my lifestyle is very simple and I can dedicate a lot of my energy to Le Bernardin. I dedicate a lot of my energy also to my family because they support me. It's very important and it creates balance.

• 44:12Speaker 02

  And also I spend a lot of time reflecting on myself and by myself. So I take trips away from the family, away from the restaurants, and it gives me a different perspective of what's happening at home, at work, what I can do better. And I think it's very important to take the time to look at that and say, hey, I am in action so much, I didn't see this detail, now I'm going to improve on that. So I find my balance and I'm very happy with the lifestyle that I have. Le Bernardin is rewarded very often, as you mentioned, and it's great.

• 44:57Speaker 02

  I mean, this week I had to complement the team for the 50 best America and it makes me very happy to see the team being excited and being recognized for all the hard work that they are doing, from the dishwasher to the people in offices, to the people in the dining room, kitchen, everywhere. That's very rewarding again for them and for me. So we have a good life.

• 45:25Adrienne Cheatham?

  And Joe has, you know, has his workout routine that he does to keep balanced with his restaurants and everything. I think it's important that everybody has something that keeps you checked out so that your mind can clear from the restaurant space.

• 45:41Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 45:41Adrienne Cheatham?

  Because otherwise you're just...

• 45:42Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, I feel like I need to wipe my brain clean every morning and then like start over. It's like...

• 45:49Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, if we want to be at the level where we are and...

• 45:57Speaker 02

  And continue, it requires a huge amount of discipline.

• 46:01Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, definitely.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  And if you don't have discipline, you can go very high, but you're gonna crash so fast.

• 46:09Adrienne Cheatham?

  Little Icarus there.

• 46:10Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  It's a marathon.

• 46:12Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 46:14Joe Flamm?

  So chef, one last thing, you've been so generous for your time today. But one, one thing we like to ask everybody is for, we call it, we call it our walk in confession. You know, you're an incredible chef, you've won all these awards, but you know, at one point, you were also a line cook, uh, once upon a time, it just, if you wouldn't mind sharing the story, whether when you were coming up as a chef or as a cook of like, those times when like things didn't go right, or you had to make it work, and it was like a crazy service and you had to pull that rabbit out of your hat, or that rabbit just never showed up.

• 46:43Speaker 02

  So what am I supposed to say?

• 46:45Adrienne Cheatham?

  Like a funny story from when you were a line cook?

• 46:48Speaker 02

  Well, I have a good story, yes. I was in La Tour d'Argent. I was in charge of the roasting the ducks. And La Tour d'Argent was specialized in ducks. So every client that ordered a duck will get a postcard with a number, and they were almost at one million ducks at the time. I, so I roasted thirty six ducks. And then I went to have my lunch. Actually, it was my dinner. And the ovens were very high in temperature. And I took my time and suddenly I heard screaming in the kitchen and it was flames coming out of the vents. And the thirty six ducks were carbonized. And they were like, like a piece of charcoal, basically.

• 47:33Speaker 02

  So that is a mistake that you never forget. And teach you a lot of lessons.

• 47:39Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh my god.

• 47:40Joe Flamm?

  So they have to throw away thirty six postcards that day?

• 47:43Speaker 02

  I guess they have thirty six, uh, missing, uh, postcards.

• 47:50Adrienne Cheatham?

  That was like the, uh, I told, I talked to Joe about this on an episode of the podcast before, where I talked about this pot of foie gras fat that I burned here at Le Bernardin when I was on hot apps. It was just black smoke and it filled the whole kitchen. And everybody was like, what is that? I was like, oh no.

• 48:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's never a good feeling.

• 48:10Adrienne Cheatham?

  No, no.

• 48:12Joe Flamm?

  No, it's, it's never the good feeling when you realize you're the, you're the reason people are screaming.

• 48:17Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 48:18Joe Flamm?

  There was, you're like, what's wrong? What's wrong?

• 48:20Speaker 02

  Especially with the scripts of their life.

• 48:21Joe Flamm?

  Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God.

• 48:24Adrienne Cheatham?

  Was it right before service?

• 48:25Speaker 02

  Uh, yes, it was, yes, right before service.

• 48:28Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, man. That's, I'm glad to know that even, you know, Chef Repair made mistakes in his career.

• 48:34Speaker 02

  Oh, for sure, many.

• 48:36Adrienne Cheatham?

  We actually, we have a couple of minutes, so I want to do one quick segment that we call Turn and Burn.

• 48:42Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 48:43Adrienne Cheatham?

  And this is where we ask just some quick questions.

• 48:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:46Adrienne Cheatham?

  And you give us just kind of top of your mind, brief answers for them.

• 48:49Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 48:50Joe Flamm?

  All right, Chef, what city would you visit most just for food? If you're like, you could get on a plane, go have dinner anywhere tonight, where would you go?

• 48:58Speaker 02

  Tokyo.

• 48:59Adrienne Cheatham?

  Ooh, nice.

• 49:00Joe Flamm?

  Um, what career accomplishment is the one you're most proud of out of all the, all the illustrious ones? Or little ones or big ones?

• 49:11Speaker 02

  Maybe the Michelin was a very big defining moment in our career, but the first time, actually, when Gilbert Le Coss, who was the executive chef, owner of Le Bernardin, passed away, and when I took the position, The New York Times had a food critic called Ruth Rachel.

• 49:29Adrienne Cheatham?

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:30Speaker 02

  She came 12 times to review the restaurant, because I was so young and she wasn't sure that I would stay or I was maybe too young. But when I got the four stars.

• 49:41Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh.

• 49:42Speaker 02

  That was a huge, huge moment in my, in my life, in my career.

• 49:45Adrienne Cheatham?

  That is amazing.

• 49:47Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, that's incredible. That's awesome. What's one piece of advice you'd give your younger self?

• 49:53Speaker 02

  Be yourself, do the right thing.

• 49:56Joe Flamm?

  Love that.

• 49:57Adrienne Cheatham?

  What is the most inspiring meal that you've had recently?

• 50:02Speaker 02

  Recently, I was at Smith in Chicago and I had a very inspiring and delicious meal there.

• 50:11Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 50:12Adrienne Cheatham?

  Hometown.

• 50:14Joe Flamm?

  Right down the street.

• 50:15Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right. What is your go-to dish to cook at home?

• 50:18Speaker 02

  Cocovin.

• 50:19Adrienne Cheatham?

  Ah, classic. And last question, who makes better paella, you or Jose Andres?

• 50:27Speaker 02

  Jose Andres by far.

• 50:31Speaker 02

  No doubt.

• 50:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, that is awesome. Chef, thank you so much for joining us. It is always a pleasure to hang out and talk with you. Thank you so much.

• 50:40Speaker 02

  My pleasure. Thank you so much for coming.

• 50:42Joe Flamm?

  Incredible just to be here, like, dream come true. So awesome. Thank you, Chef. What a pleasure.

• 50:46Speaker 02

  Thank you so much.

• 50:49Adrienne Cheatham?

  This has been another episode of The Chef's Cut. Don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss a new episode, which drops every Tuesday, and leave a review on Apple or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 51:00Joe Flamm?

  For Adrian Cheatham, Chef Eric Repair, this is Joe Flamm, and this has been The Chef's Cut.

• 51:05Adrienne Cheatham?

  Life beyond the past.