Stop Disease 5 Years Early: AI + DNA Playbook With 23andMe's Founder Anne Wojcicki

In this episode of the Silicon Valley Girl Podcast, Marina Mogilko sits down with Anne Wojcicki, co-founder and CEO of 23andMe — the genetic testing company that has helped more than 14 million people understand their ancestry and health risks, and built one of the largest human genetic datasets in the world. After 23andMe went through bankruptcy and Anne lost control of the company she started in 2006, she fought to win it back at a court-approved auction and relaunched it as a nonprofit (TTAM Research Institute) — so no single pharma company would ever own your DNA. In this conversation she breaks down what AI + your DNA can actually do for your health right now: predicting disease years before you feel it, the genetic risk factors everyone should test for, why the healthcare system is built to treat disease instead of preventing it, and the small daily habits that move the needle most. She also opens up about the hardest year of her life — losing her sister, former YouTube CEO Susan Wojcicki, to lung cancer, going through bankruptcy, and why she refused to walk away. Plus: raising kids as a founder, having a baby at 45, co-parenting with her ex-husband Sergey Brin, and the single smartest thing you can do for your body in 2026. Links: 📌 Subscribe to my free newsletter where I go deeper on AI tools, career strategies, and building with AI: ⁠⁠⁠https://siliconvalleygirl.beehiiv.com/subscribe?utm_source=spotify&utm_medium=video&utm_campaign=futureproof-sub&utm_content=Anne-Wojcicki https://siliconvalleygirl.beehiiv.com/subscribe?utm_source=spotify&utm_medium=video&utm_campaign=futureproof-sub&utm_content=Anne-Wojcicki ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.instagram.com/siliconvalleygirl/𝕏 : ⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/siliconvalleymm⁠⁠⁠ https://x.com/siliconvalleymm 🔗 Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/siliconvalleygirl/⁠⁠⁠ https://www.instagram.com/siliconvalleygirl/ 💼 LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marinamogilko⁠⁠⁠ https://www.linkedin.com/in/marinamogilko 📌 My Companies & Products: ⁠⁠⁠https://Marinamogilko.co https://Marinamogilko.co

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Speaker 00

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• 0:39Speaker 00

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• 1:00Speaker 02

  Every single person can benefit from genetic information and use that to modify and prevent disease.

• 1:08Marina Mogilko?

  This is Anne. She built 23andMe, a genetic testing company that provides ancestry breakdowns and health predisposition insights. More than 14 million people have used its DNA test, helping build one of the world's largest genetic data sets. Then it all collapsed. Her board resigned and she lost her company. 2024 was a brutal year for you with bankruptcy and having to buy out your company. Did you ever have thoughts of giving up?

• 1:35Speaker 02

  I thought about it a lot because everything is pointing in the direction that things are not going well.

• 1:39Marina Mogilko?

  But after winning a court-approved auction, she bought the company back and turned it into a nonprofit. Now she's working to combine DNA data sets with AI to help people catch disease before they feel it. What can AI plus DNA do now? What a doctor couldn't do five years ago?

• 1:56Speaker 02

  You can pull in your medical record, link all this then with your genetics and understand where you could potentially intervene today and change the outcome.

• 2:06Marina Mogilko?

  From all the data that you're seeing, what do you think of the diseases that have the best chance of being cured or treated in a different way in the next five years?

• 2:14Speaker 02

  I think a couple things. One.

• 2:18Marina Mogilko?

  My audience really loves using AI for everything. What can AI plus DNA do now? What a doctor couldn't do five years ago?

• 2:26Speaker 02

  I love that. And I feel like we're finally getting to the point where everything that we set out to do back in 2006 is can start to happen. And that really revolves around preventing disease. And I think the fundamental issue in the healthcare system is that when you go to the doctor today, they're compensated to treat disease. Like almost no aspect of healthcare rewards you and makes money on disease prevention. And so it's really going to fall in the hands of you, the consumer. Like you, the individual, are going to have to leverage all these different ways, all these different means that are now in your power to start to understand what your health risks are and then to start to manage that more and more. And so 23andMe started with this idea

• 3:09Speaker 02

  that the most fundamental layer of your health is your genetics. So for example, if you want to be healthy and you're worried about all your cholesterol numbers, and let's say you just have very high numbers and you have a genetic risk factor called familial hypocholesteremia.

• 3:26Marina Mogilko?

  That's me.

• 3:27Speaker 02

  Is it really?

• 3:27Marina Mogilko?

  Yes.

• 3:28Speaker 02

  Okay, so you're a prime example of this. Like no matter what you do with your diet.

• 3:33Marina Mogilko?

  It does affect anything.

• 3:34Speaker 02

  You have to take a statin. And so it's that type of thing. It's like you find out that you have something. You have high cholesterol numbers. But there's a limit to how much the environment can be modified to impact that. So you have to go on a therapy. And there's the aspects of, for instance, in cancer. Like if you have hereditary colon cancer, hereditary breast cancer, you need more proactive screening. You know, environment definitely makes a difference there, but you have to be proactive with the medical world. And so for me, your genetics was always this core layer where you have to understand genetically, do you have a significant risk factor? Where are you on the spectrum for heart disease, for cancer risk, for, you know, other things that could be passed down to your children? Like, understanding all of that is really step one.

• 4:18Speaker 02

  What's amazing today is that you can pull in all this other information. Your wearable information. Your zip code has your air quality and your water quality. You can pull in your medical record. And you can link all this then with your genetics and really understand, are there signs? Are there things happening where you could potentially intervene today? Either with the medical world or with your lifestyle and change the outcome. So for instance, even like with my mom, types of things I look at, like we're genetically higher risk for type 2 diabetes. People in the family had type 2 diabetes. My mom knew that she was prediabetic. You know, I put on a CGM on her. And suddenly she's like, oh my God,

• 5:03Speaker 02

  like I can now change my behaviors. So it was a combination of her genetics, her medical records, her blood values, and then using a new tool like a CGM. Or again, you'll be able to use OraRings, other things as well, to then actually change your behavior. So that's going to be the magic of AI is combining all of that together. And your genetics is going to be what powers the customization of all this other information coming in and knowing where do you need to be proactive with your lifestyle and where do you need to be proactive medically?

• 5:36Marina Mogilko?

  How do you know how much genetics are actually contributing? Because if you look at cancer stats, it says on average it's 70 to 90% environmental for coronary diseases. Same, 79%. How do you know that for you specifically, it's mostly genetics or it's mostly environment? So you can control and take out?

• 5:54Speaker 02

  There's two types of reports, what we call monogenic risk. And that's where you can get like familial hypocholesteremia. One variant that says you are much higher risk based on this one variant. And so in some ways, those general numbers are not meaningful to you as an individual. They're meaningful to a population, but not meaningful to you. So you have one monogenic variant and it puts you really high risk for heart disease or sudden cardiac death or high cholesterol. That impacts you. That range is no longer relevant. You have another area called polygenic risk scores. And polygenic risk is looking at hundreds or thousands of genetic variants that add up into a score. And it puts you almost on like a bell curve.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  Like where are you on that curve? Like I can look at my type 2 diabetes risk and I'm like fit. I'm healthy. I work out a lot. But genetically, I'm still higher risk. And so for that reason, that's part of why I can say, okay, I'm higher risk. But there's actually been a lot of data that shows if you manage your environment, if I manage what I eat, I regularly get my hemoglobin A1C test. I use, you know, a continuous glucose monitor. I stay fit and healthy. I can reduce that risk. So I have a genetic risk factor, but I can reduce it now.

• 7:11Marina Mogilko?

  When it comes to cholesterol, since we touched it, and it's a huge problem for me because I'm 36 and I don't want to go on statins. And every doc, almost every doctor, it's like 10% of doctors are like, wait, until you have like a third kid because it affects pregnancies. And we haven't studied statins and pregnancies, et cetera. But is there any study that shows where? Because you mentioned different people react differently to different drugs.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  Correct, yeah.

• 7:34Marina Mogilko?

  And ideally, I'd love to do some testing before being put in statins. Is there any research around that? That shows that some people don't have to take statins or wouldn't react to that or just me hoping?

• 7:45Speaker 02

  This is where the future, this is the future of personalized medicine. You should have a physician who has a very comprehensive genetics background. And I think that's where you're going to be able to have AI training to say, based on all the literature with genetics, let's no longer look at you just as an average, as like a one size fits all of like, here's what we do on a population level with, you know, with, you know, treating high cholesterol that we should actually now understand specifically based on your genetics, based also on pharmacogenetics, because there's interactions of your genetics and statins. So what's the right one for you? And what's the best way for us to reduce that?

• 8:24Marina Mogilko?

  What are the best prompts that people can put into their AI today to make this kind of personalized health assistant?

• 8:31Speaker 02

  That is a great question. You know, I think it's still pretty early days. I have to say the areas I've been coaching people the most is around blood values, cancer information. Anybody who gets a genetic test in cancer or even just basic things of like helping understand lifestyle information with a hereditary factor like APoE. Based on your age, based on, you know, all your metrics of, you know, your weight, how you are living your life, like, you know, asking it for prompts, you know, ask me 10 questions about my lifestyle. And including it for something like APoE, what are the things that you can do that can make a difference?

• 9:11Marina Mogilko?

  APoE, can you?

• 9:12Speaker 02

  APoE is about, is the genetic risk factor for Alzheimer's. And so that's one area where we get a lot of questions from our customers about like, well, what can I do? What can I do for that? And that's where, when you go to a traditional doctor, it's going to be worse at finding out, okay, here's your lifestyle information, what are the things you can do? But there is a lot of research out there that's happening. And more and more, you're finding there's all these, you know, groups coming together to run their own studies about what is it that we can do? What's having an impact?

• 9:42Marina Mogilko?

  Now you have 14 million people participating in your research. And you said your goal is to get 100 million people. What does this unlock?

• 9:51Speaker 02

  We see the potential with AI right now. And your listeners definitely are early adopters here. So AI came because all the big tech companies had data. Like they had tons and tons of data. They could invest in training models. Like it came because there was a world of billions of people who contributed data. So in many ways, you need to do something similar with respect to healthcare information. And 23andMe, I think as impressive as it is that we have 14 million and it's the largest genetic data set that's out there, it's only 14 million. And your DNA. Is fascinating to me because it's a digital code. Every form of life has an A, C, G, and T.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  And so you just have different combinations, different variations, different, you know, ways it's organized. And you could be you, you could be a frog, you could be a banana. I find it amazing that you get this kind of genetic, like this variability in the world. So what you need to really understand the code of life is more data. And you're going to need to train models, not on words, but you're going to need to train models on DNA. And so that's where I look at is like, we're at 14 million today. I point to 100 million is sort of the next milestone. But the reality is you're going to need data sets that are massive.

• 11:10Marina Mogilko?

  So you need more than that. It doesn't, 14 million doesn't really represent a significant group of people to.

• 11:15Speaker 02

  Well, it does. So what we found, I mean, what we found is the publication that we had at NAREPS actually showed that at over a million people, you start to really get the benefits of training models with AI. And so you get nonlinear improvements with risk prediction. That for us sort of valid, validated that more and more data, because we get this question from people all the time, like, why do you need more data? You have enough data. It's funny because we get that a lot from the biotech world. It's like, that's enough data. Why do you need any more?

• 11:42Marina Mogilko?

  For me, it also looks like, like 14 million, maybe that's.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  This is where you see differences and that's what's been interesting with our background is like, the tech world is recognizes, you always want more data. And the biotech world sometimes like, oh, it's enough. Like you don't necessarily need more. And I think now you're having this convergence where people recognize like, to really be able to take advantage of AI, you need to build these extraordinary data sets based on human data.

• 12:07Marina Mogilko?

  What do you think it's going to unlock? Like, for example, we can't really treat cancer now on genetic level. Do you think at 100 million, we're going to see some path?

• 12:15Speaker 02

  What I'm most focused on, if I think about like, what, what do I want? And again, this is like 23ME is very focused on sort of like a single area, which is focused on prediction. And so disease prediction, because we all know it's tough. Like if I look at my sister, Susan, it was tough having a late stage cancer diagnosis. What you really want to know is, are you at risk? And then find it at those earliest stages. And that is what I think is exciting is being able to identify something really early. And then also understand the basic biology. Why are you getting something? Like, we don't understand, like, we know that bodies are constantly getting, you know, you're always under assault. So you always have like little micro cancers. And so why is it that sometimes they take off and sometimes they don't?

• 13:00Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah, it will be fascinating when you have this DNA, even now with 14 million, when people start adding their whoop information or their lifestyle and then connecting and seeing correlation between lifestyle and genes. That's the most.

• 13:14Speaker 02

  I mean, that's what we don't really know, like lifestyle. And people have to recognize that the challenge that you have with AI and health is that you have to run experiments. You have an intervention. And maybe it's that we eliminate microplastics from water. Or you have a new drug that you think is going to prevent heart attacks. But then you have to run the clinical trial to see, do you get that outcome? You have to wait for people to get heart attacks. You have to wait for people to not develop cancer. So it's just hard to run models in the same type of way. And so that's why we're always trying to come up with like, you know, other types of biology experiments to, you know, mimic what we think is potentially, you know, a biomarker for it.

• 13:55Marina Mogilko?

  And the more data, the better. What was?

• 13:57Speaker 02

  The more data, the better. This is where we're just getting into those early days of, you know, on AI and all the environmental information. You know, you see this very clearly, things like, you know, people who live near a golf course and people who live near farms, the pesticides. So you can see from a population level, you have increases in areas like, or diseases like Parkinson's. We barely understand the impact of all this environmental damage. I think we're just scratching the surface of what all the environmental impacts are. And it hasn't been that well studied. It's hard. It's a hard area to study.

• 14:34Marina Mogilko?

  What do you see from your data? Are there like top three environmental factors that could affect your potential risk?

• 14:40Speaker 02

  I mean, pesticides is one of the biggest.

• 14:42Marina Mogilko?

  So don't eat non-organic? Is that something that's practical?

• 14:46Speaker 02

  I think it's, I mean, I actually don't, I mean, in some ways, the, the debate around organic and non-organic is controversial. And I haven't, I, again, I'm not an expert in that area. I mean, I definitely would say like, don't.

• 15:00Marina Mogilko?

  Don't live near a farm.

• 15:02Speaker 02

  Living, living near, and again, I think that's where there's all the occupational hazard issues, you know, people who are, who don't have a choice, who were spraying pesticides. But you know, it's very clear that pesticides have health impacts. And so you look at all of that data. I think air quality is huge. People having filters in their house is important. Like California had all the fires. There's this guy that we fund, Charlie Swanton in the UK, who has done a fair amount of work on air pollution and the inflammatory effects in your lungs and in your body. So I think air quality makes a huge difference. And I think people, it 100% makes sense to have high quality filters in your house. And it makes sense to have filters around.

• 15:47Speaker 02

  I do think water quality, like all of these things really matter for people. And you can test for it. I mean, that's where like, or you can, the, the government is constantly testing for it and you can pull up, it's all publicly available. So you can look at these water quality sites, you can see, and that's, you know, the issue is like, not everyone has the choice about where they live. But knowing whether or not you're living near one of these sites makes a difference. I mean, the other thing that's really just abundantly clear is the impact of exercise. And like, I would have ridden my bike to your house, but then I saw how high up on the hill you are.

• 16:22Marina Mogilko?

  I don't know.

• 16:23Speaker 02

  And it would have been.

• 16:23Marina Mogilko?

  People do bike here, but it's.

• 16:25Speaker 02

  And I almost always bike, but you were, you're sort of next level. But I do think about that a lot. Like I'm always trying to exercise. Like, and even with my kids and other, like, I try to be like, let's do burpees now. Let's do, let's do squats. Like little things make a big difference. We have a trampoline at the house. We're always bouncing. All these things make a big difference. And again, I going back to genetic side, if you know that you have a significant genetic risk in one way or another, then it can help direct, where do you want to put your focus? Knowing that you're higher risk for Alzheimer's or Parkinson's, there's a lot of data about exercise and quality of your food and what you can do with that.

• 17:09Speaker 02

  And like, we had someone named Rob Lustig coming yesterday, who's a professor at UCSF, talking all about, you know, ABOE, so Alzheimer's risk and ultra-processed foods.

• 17:21Marina Mogilko?

  Oh, my God.

• 17:22Speaker 02

  And it's one thing, like I complained to my kid's school, you know, they had a parent of them.

• 17:25Marina Mogilko?

  I always complain.

• 17:26Speaker 02

  Well, they had a parent event and I, and they were serving hot dogs. And I, I was like, you know, like.

• 17:31Marina Mogilko?

  In plastic. Did they serve it in plastic? Did it get plastic?

• 17:34Speaker 02

  I don't know if it was in plastic, but it's like the one food. I was like, it's the one food society agrees on is really unhealthy for you. Like, shouldn't we be doing more to train kids?

• 17:44Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah, isn't it proven that processed meat causes, like it's a, it's cancerogenic?

• 17:48Speaker 02

  Correct. And like ultra-processed foods are just like the one area you really want to try to avoid. To the question that you had is like, what are the top three?

• 17:56Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  Biggest areas. And I think that's where there's so much data. Like again, healthcare is, is in, in human biology is a lever of complexity that we just like barely scratched the surface on. Like it's just, it will be humbling for the whole world, like understanding the, the complexity there. So using AI to help really understand that, I think will, will be potentially transformative.

• 18:19Marina Mogilko?

  After what happened with Susan and with her diagnosis, have you changed anything in your lifestyle and your kid's lifestyle?

• 18:27Speaker 02

  I mean, like, I think that the number one thing that happened after Susan was diagnosed, and I think a lot of her friends did this, is they sort of reevaluated what's most important to me. I've been reading this book recently by Eddie Egger, called The Choice, a Holocaust survivor who actually lived to 98. I think there's a big question for people in life about, are you doing what's happy? What makes you happy? And that you personally find rewarding and meaningful. What I found impacted me the most after Susan was less on lifestyle of like, okay, am I exercising enough? Am I getting enough checkups? But more, are you living the life that you actually want?

• 19:07Speaker 02

  I think there's a number of her friends who changed jobs, made pretty dramatic decisions of like, I, like I wasn't, and you have one life and you have, there's a number of things that you can control, but ultimately you also just have, like you, you always have lightning and you have no idea what's going to strike. You should enjoy every day. And it's kind of the things that Susan said, it's like being meaningful. And again, that's where I do really love this book, The Choice, of, you know, this ability to choose every single day.

• 19:40Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 19:41Speaker 02

  To be happy and to appreciate the things around you. And I think that was overwhelmingly the number one thing. And I think it's an interesting component is like, we live right now in a time period where it's like, everything's moving so fast. Like even this morning, I was doing like a new Claude training and, and it was different than like two weeks ago.

• 20:00Marina Mogilko?

  Oh, yeah. It's different every day.

• 20:01Speaker 02

  It's different every day. And I, it's like, things are moving so quickly and it is exciting. It's an exciting time because we're rebuilding the entire world. But it's also one of those things to, for people to check in and say like, are you doing something that brings you true meaning? And, you know, it's one of the things that was really clear with Susan is, you know, when she died and she was saying like, you know, if you're all left behind, like do things that are meaningful with your life. And I think that's something that, that resonates the most with me.

• 20:32Speaker 00

  The action's on the court. And as the official beer sponsor of the NBA, Michelob Ultra is getting fans closer to the game with a chance to win courtside seats, merch, and more. Visit michelobultra.com/courtside to enter. Michelob Ultra Courtside, 26 to 27. No purchase necessary. Open to US residents 21 plus. Begins on October 1st, 2026 and ends on June 30th, 2027. Multiple entry periods. See official rules at michelobultra.com/courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details.

• 21:00Speaker 01

  Blowing ad budget on metrics that look great till the CFO sees them? That's bullspend and marketers are calling it out in Dashboard Confessions. I remember telling my boss, it'll be good for the brand. Leads were slow. Yeah, it it wasn't. Cut the bullspend. LinkedIn lets you target by company, job title, and more. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit. Go to LinkedIn.com/campaign. Terms and conditions apply.

• 21:30Marina Mogilko?

  100%. But were you able to identify any causes to what to why that happened to her or it's still?

• 21:36Speaker 02

  No, I mean, we all think about, I will never know.

• 21:40Marina Mogilko?

  You think so, even with AI advances?

• 21:44Speaker 02

  I think that there's it. There's always going to be a combination of factors. So clearly, we're running right now the 23Me lung cancer study. I'm super interested to understand genetics. Like, do we have, like, there's no polygenic risk score for lung cancer right now. Like, we don't understand why so many women who were never smokers are getting lung cancer. So is there a risk factor? Like, I would love to understand that. And is there some kind of susceptibility? Like, are some people more susceptible to pollution? People have reached out to me now who have lung cancer, who were triathletes and runners. Is there something then about increased exposure to air quality? Like, you just have no idea. I think the thing that is not well studied is stress.

• 22:28Speaker 02

  People having chronic stress and high cortisol level and just never being able to have a downtime. I can hypothesize all I want about all these things that impacted Susan, but I I can say, like, without a doubt, like, she had a high-stress job. I don't think we'll ever know, but I know that prospectively, like, the 23Me lung cancer community is looking specifically at, like, can I identify genetic risk factors that made people at risk for lung cancer? I would love to, as we get more and more into AI and multimodal data, and I can look at environmental factors, like zip codes of where people are getting diagnosed, environmental information, how often are they exercising?

• 23:09Speaker 02

  And we, 23Me links up now with Apple HealthKit, and we pull in, we have about half a million customers who are consented and giving us their wearable data. So their watch data or Oura Ring data, and then we can pull in medical records. And so we have a number, we have, you know, 50 plus thousand people who are consenting and giving us medical records. And then we have all the self-report data. So pulling all that together. And I'm eager to look at stress data that Oura Ring is starting to put, like, can we actually start to understand? What are some of those factors? It's a complex problem.

• 23:43Marina Mogilko?

  It is.

• 23:44Speaker 02

  But I think the next five years can be transformative with how we can understand environment and your risk factors and your life.

• 23:51Marina Mogilko?

  Stress is also this funny thing. I feel like I'm stressed all the time, but then you look at my whoop. It's pretty calm, like, nothing's happening.

• 23:59Speaker 02

  Well, there's good stress and there's bad stress.

• 24:01Marina Mogilko?

  Maybe something's still like brain stress.

• 24:03Speaker 02

  Turn it off in some way. And I do think, like, knowing you and seeing you with, like, your kids and your dog, like, you seem to enjoy them.

• 24:12Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah, I love that. It's just a lot sometimes.

• 24:15Speaker 02

  It's a lot. Yeah, but but but just because it's stressful in the moment is like, oh, my God, I have to go and volunteer and like, do this and like, it's a lot. But then I do think there's good stress and there's bad stress. And I think they've quantified in some ways and looking at, even like, it's it's hard to fully understand stress. And I think Aura has a feature now on stress. And I think it's just, it's those early days, like, no one's measuring your cortisol yet of like, can you actually measure chronically?

• 24:41Marina Mogilko?

  Continuous cortisol.

• 24:42Speaker 02

  But I think that we're getting towards that, like, there's some of these devices.

• 24:45Marina Mogilko?

  Was device for continuous cortisol.

• 24:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's some that are coming out, and I think that's where it's not going to be everyone in the population who constantly wants to measure everything.

• 24:54Marina Mogilko?

  But at least for a couple of weeks, like with a glucose monitor, at least you can figure out what affects you.

• 24:59Speaker 02

  And I think I love doing it, like, when I'm doing talks or other things, or just even like, like, we've had all the graduations, which has been a lot, like, measuring for a period of time. Will be interesting for people to understand, like, what are those behaviors?

• 25:13Marina Mogilko?

  From all the data that you're seeing, what do you think of the diseases that have the best chance of being cured or treated in a different way in the next five years?

• 25:22Speaker 02

  I think a couple of things. One, I'm Jewish. I find it absolutely the crazy that the Jewish community does not own the responsibility for the next generation to all have genetic testing. And the Jewish community has the higher rates of hereditary conditions and conditions like BRCA variant for breast cancer, ovarian cancer, prostate cancer. Like, why doesn't everyone know? Like, why is anyone dying of a BRCA variant? Especially when there's things that you can do. If you know you have it, you can have a prophylactic mastectomy. You can have, you know, you can have kids earlier, take out your ovaries, like, you can have more aggressive screening, like, there's things you can do.

• 26:03Speaker 02

  So I look at, that's one area where there just should be, this is a community that should step up and have proactive testing. And no one in the next generation should be surprised. Cardiovascular, there's so many genetic variants that if you know ahead of time, you can absolutely manage them, like you with familiar hypocholesteremia. I've met so many people in this journey who are like, oh, I have this, like, really high cholesterol. And I'm like, I'm eating kale every day. And I'm like, you know, you might, you might want the genetic test. And then you just, there's aspects that you can change and aspects where you can prevent. Like, you can medicate and you can prevent.

• 26:41Speaker 02

  I think in cancer, hereditary cancer is one of those areas, like, we know there's a number of genetic variants that can put you at high risk. Genetic testing now is so inexpensive, and those people should should never be surprised. And that's where I look at, like, cancer, heart disease, the Jewish community.

• 27:03Speaker 02

  You have all these other areas, the African-American community as well, with sickle cell, a condition called TTR amyloidosis, there's chronic kidney disease. Every single person can benefit from genetic information. And use that to modify and prevent disease. But I do look at, like, the Jewish population, African-American population, frankly, you know, cardiovascular disease and cancer. I think you should be able to have a significant, like, you know, remove the the the very regrettable deaths that happened because people had a risk factor and they didn't know.

• 27:38Marina Mogilko?

  Totally. And we already saw a kid being treated with them modifying, you know, how they get processed protein. Modifying their gene.

• 27:47Speaker 02

  You mean Bob, Baby KJ?

• 27:48Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 27:49Speaker 02

  Baby KJ is amazing.

• 27:50Marina Mogilko?

  How far are we from doing this to common diseases? Because I think what I've heard is that it's mostly like those genetic diseases you're born with, so you can modify a gene. Can we, in five years, just, if you're predisposed to breast cancer, just modify the gene?

• 28:05Speaker 02

  This is outside of my area. But if you look at Jennifer Doudna and people in the CRISPR field, and there's a number of experts in this. And I sat at a conference recently with one of them, and he was just like, you know, so passionate, like, every disease is genetic. And we should be able to, like, we're at the beginning of a CRISPR era. Where you should be able to figure out, like, cystic fibrosis, or you with familiar hypocholesteremia, or BRCA variant, like, there should be a world where that's coming, where you can fix that. We're not there yet. But Baby KJ is a pretty amazing.

• 28:42Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah, it's the first.

• 28:43Speaker 02

  It's the first, it's the first glimmer. I remember when there's the first IVF children, and it was like, like, it was so extraordinary, and now it's so common. So I think we're, the next 20 years will be, you know, a blow, extraordinary in that way.

• 28:56Marina Mogilko?

  Hopefully sooner as well. I was just talking to an economics professor from Stanford yesterday, and he said, in the next two or three years, we're going to see something dramatic that's going to happen because of AI that's going to change our lives.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  I'm always more hesitant in healthcare, like, I'm I'm a little bit always of the Debbie Downer, because, like, you still have to do human clinical trials. You still have the FDA. There's going to be issues, like, it's not going to be perfect the first time. So I always try to set expectations. Biotech's not the transformative, you know, industry that's going to, like, change in the next five years. I think that there's all kinds of things that are happening in the early stage of discovery. But you have to then translate out that those those discoveries and those insights actually lead to drug discovery. When I was in my investing days, there was all these technologies on, like, high-throughput chemistry and all these, you know, high-throughput ways of doing biology

• 29:47Speaker 02

  that were important techniques, but, you know, fundamentally, 90% of drugs all fail. And it was 500 million to develop a drug back when I started, and now it's like $4 billion to develop a drug. So, all right, maybe it's like 2 billion. We're not getting better, is my key point. And so the only thing, the reason why 23Me got in drug discovery is because one of the only areas that was seen to improve the outcome and the likelihood of success. Was starting with the human genetic insight. And so we know that starting with human genetic insight is means that your drug is more likely to succeed. We don't yet know on AI how much that's going to help it.

• 30:28Speaker 02

  So I'm super optimistic and I love that there's all this money going to the space. But I, I, I'm always like cautious to the broad population to not over set expectations that you're going to have a radical change in the next five years.

• 30:43Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah, just eat whatever you want.

• 30:45Speaker 02

  I think the radical change that you can have in the next five years is risk prediction. I think a hundred percent you should be able to predict who's most likely to have breast cancer, colon cancer, heart disease, like a hundred percent. And then you should allocate resources based on that.

• 31:00Marina Mogilko?

  What do you think are the top three things that everyone should do after listening to this conversation in regards to their health? Because when I was at Susan's foundation launch, I was like, okay, I need to do this pre new scan.

• 31:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:12Marina Mogilko?

  I have done my 23 and me, then I'm going to connect all of that with AI.

• 31:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:16Marina Mogilko?

  And see what it tells me. Do you think it's decent, decent plan?

• 31:19Speaker 02

  I think that the most important thing, um, 23 me has, has three different products. We have a product called Total Health. Total Health is your exome. So it's a deeper level of sequencing and it's blood. Everyone from a medical perspective should go and get that. It's the gold standard, what people want to be able to go and get.

• 31:35Marina Mogilko?

  So it's better than spitting?

• 31:36Speaker 02

  It's two products. So this, the DNA is still spitting.

• 31:39Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah, okay.

• 31:40Speaker 02

  But at some point you want to get your blood. You want to be able to understand your blood as well. And so pre newvo is super interesting and I'm an investor in it. Um, I do it every year. There's still like a world of people all assessing like exactly what do you do with this information? And I recognize there's people who are anxious, um, because you'll find all kinds of things. And so it's, it's for people who want to embrace, like I, I can handle it. If you go and you tell me you have like a strange lump in your uterus, you're not going to freak out. And that you're okay to follow up because you'll find a lot of things. And some of them, like I know lots of people who found brain tumors and heart issues and aneurysms. Like the stories are astounding, but you also have stories of people saying, oh, they found something

• 32:25Speaker 02

  and it was nothing and I had this whole workup. That's where pre newvo, I think, is doing a lot of work to understand exactly how you want to do an MRI. I do annual chest CTs. So a low dose chest CT is minimal radiation. I'm in a category that's genetically higher risk now because Susan had it. And I do that. And there's amazing AI work here where, and this is part of what the Susan Wojcicki Foundation was also part of and helping to support is can you use your, um, my chest CT to give me a five year prediction?

• 32:57Marina Mogilko?

  So when do I? Able to identify.

• 32:59Speaker 02

  Right. So when do I want to get, um, when do I need to get another scan? Similar to a colonoscopy, when you go and they say like, you need to come back in two years. You need to get back in 10 years. So it's going to be a similar kind of experience there. The other thing that's important for people to recognize is like, health can be really stressful and triggering for some people.

• 33:18Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 33:18Speaker 02

  So some people, we get, um, Brian Johnson, who like obviously loves testing everything. And I'm so grateful to him because he tests all kinds of things that I do not want to test. He's testing all of it. I get other people, like I dinner with someone last night who's like, I don't like getting blood. And so there's a, an element of choice and respect for people, like people should all have. And there's people who are going to be pioneers, helping to sort of pioneer, what is this revolution? And like, what are we all learning together? And so for those people, like you're doing blood twice a year, you're doing your genetics, you're doing pre newvo, you're doing like as many scans as you can, you're like putting all that data together. The stuff that's really validated for people is like having a baseline genetics, making sure that you're doing the core blood

• 34:02Speaker 02

  tests, um, and that you're doing all of the preventative screens. That makes sense for you.

• 34:07Marina Mogilko?

  It all comes down to discipline as well, because your AI can tell you anything, but then

• 34:11Speaker 02

  Right.

• 34:11Marina Mogilko?

  you have to go and execute and yes, getting those annual checkups to see how you're progressing or what's changing.

• 34:17Speaker 02

  And this is where I do think like aura and all these, um, you know, your Apple watch are amazing at predicting changes. And even, you know, we had a friend who just had a health issue and it was amazing how, um, Apple, the Apple watch, you know, triggers and says like, oh, you know, you were unstable the day before. And so having those, and that's what I love looking at is the patterns of like, oh, you've really been sleeping worse. Like what, like what happened? And like, I stopped wearing the aura ring when Susan was sick. I was like, I don't need you to go and tell me.

• 34:48Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 34:49Speaker 02

  That you're stressed out. I'm aware. But like having the trends over time and, and watching things like I'm 52 now, like understanding how my body is changing and what do I need to do? And like, am I sleeping better? It's actually nice to have data and to understand that. And, and I was really clear, I was like, okay, I'm going to start going to bed earlier. And I can see a difference, like when I'm in bed reading on my phone versus I turn off social media and I just go straight to sleep and I read a paper book, like I see the difference in quality.

• 35:18Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 35:18Speaker 02

  And so like, that's where data has helped me.

• 35:21Marina Mogilko?

  Totally. Quick pause. My team and I are celebrating one year of the Silicon Valley Girl Podcast. I know the channel has existed for a while, but a year ago I made a decision to focus on amazing conversations with people who are building our future with AI. And for a whole year, we worked to bring you the biggest founders and builders in AI. So you can keep up in this era and get inspired. If you love what we're doing, please subscribe and hit the notification bell. It's what helps us bring you the biggest minds of our lifetime. Thank you so much for being here. I want to focus in this conversation as well on your mindset as a founder, because a lot of your bets, I think all of your bets, because you're doing 23 and me, I want to talk about downtown Los Altos. You're doing Susan's foundation. They're all long, long-term bets.

• 36:06Marina Mogilko?

  How does your mind function in the world where every day there's something shiny, something fancy? And all of your bets are like 10 plus years.

• 36:16Speaker 02

  You know, it's interesting because when, when I was driving up here, um, and I was talking to, um, some of the bankers about the SpaceX IPO. I knew Elon because of Sergey. And I remember in like the very earliest days when he was starting Tesla and he would stay with us. And he would, he was so consistent talking about his vision of like Tesla and the space world and the potential. I have to say like, it's complete kudos of like, when you think of like long-term vision, the world, and I look all around us, I like everything that's happened today to make significant changes in the world.

• 36:56Speaker 02

  You have to have a long-term vision and you have to be so consistent and maniacal about doing that. And you have to also love what you do. And that's where like, I look at, again, I talk ad nauseam about like how much I love genetics and, but I do, again, it, it just occurred to me thinking this morning is like, people who love what they do, you have a long-term vision and you're consistent with it and it never feels like work. And, and every single day builds on the previous days. And so I look at 23 and me, every single day I walk into the office and I'm fascinated by the research that we can do. Like what motivates me every day is this idea of, um, when I'm helping people.

• 37:40Speaker 02

  Like I always wanted to be a doctor, but I feel like now I like, I help more people because I help connect on identity. I help connect on, um, family connections, like reuniting all these people. And we save lives, like I give people valuable information about themselves. And then the research is like, I mean, for me, it's, again, my dad who loved neutrinos, like, and he loved space and all that. Like I was like, wait, you like looking up in the sky? And I like looking inner. I like find that there's an entire universe in every cell. We understand nothing about it. Like even I was with somebody talking about like the beauty of the mitochondria and like that you have this like power engine and how it works, like we understand so little.

• 38:24Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 38:24Speaker 02

  And that's what I love. Like every day, it's like little tiny bricks coming together to build this foundation of knowledge. And it's so interesting. And again, that's what like, I always advise kids, like whatever you do, like make it so every day you have like that spark of joy. Where you're like, oh, that was so cool. What was fun is like, when we first moved into Los Altos, it was a pretty sleepy town. And there wasn't much, like there wasn't much going on at night. There wasn't much, um, for the kids to do. And you know, I have to say, it's like, it's been such a pleasure because like you can buy buildings.

• 39:03Speaker 02

  I've bought buildings and, um, and then I could bring in, you know, really extraordinary owners who love what they do. So like Lindon tree. It's an amazing bookstore. You know, bookstores, and this is where I was like, I have a pleasure. I can like help get a building, I can renovate, can make it nice. And then, you know, create an environment and a, uh, an economic environment where it can support a children's bookstore. We started State Street Market so that we could have.

• 39:33Marina Mogilko?

  The best. Thank you so much.

• 39:35Speaker 02

  So my whole idea there is like, I want to go somewhere where I can bring the whole family and everyone's happy. And in the earliest days, I remember I would go out, we had 17 people in the family. And like one, you call a restaurant, you're like, I need a reservation for 17. And everyone's like, no, and they hang up. So now like it's easy to go, everyone's happy, no one's fighting. And if like a child throws spaghetti, like it's not a big deal.

• 39:59Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 40:00Speaker 02

  And so I wanted something that was truly multi-generational. And I think it's also, I think society, it's important you have multi-generation. It's important that young people are exposed to older generations and that people in the mid, the midlife, you have support for your kids and you know, that you can support your, your, your parents, that you know, your kids are supported. Like I just think multi-generation is so, um, it's so valuable for, for, for how everyone grows.

• 40:34Speaker 00

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• 41:01Speaker 01

  Blowing ad budget on metrics that look great till the CFO sees them? That's bull spend. And marketers are calling it out in Dashboard Confessions.

• 41:11Speaker 04

  I remember telling my boss, "It'll be good for the brand," when leads were slow. Yeah, it wasn't.

• 41:19Speaker 01

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• 41:31Marina Mogilko?

  I think that's your Slavic genes playing out.

• 41:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:35Marina Mogilko?

  Because, you know, I was raised by my grandparents. Everyone lived together and it was like a small apartment, but my grandparents would come over, will sleep on the floor. But they will help raise me. In the U.S., I don't see that. Parents are very lonely. They move to another town, sometimes another country. And so you're just raising a kid in a completely different environment. And the sense of community is getting lost, especially in big cities.

• 41:59Speaker 02

  Well, that's why I wanted, because I think so many people come, so many people are in Los Altos and they are immigrants. They don't have family around. And so my whole thought process was like, well, how can we use downtown Los Altos as a community? And it's also really fun to get kids excited about the different businesses. So I love, you know, like when we did the arcade, I would ask my kids, I was like, okay, make a business plan for each machine.

• 42:22Marina Mogilko?

  Nice.

• 42:23Speaker 02

  Like, you know, tell me what machine you want. My son, the other day, like wanted some machine. It was like $200,000. I was like, okay, well, like, just do the math on that one. When do you get an ROI on that kind of machine?

• 42:34Marina Mogilko?

  Great test.

• 42:35Speaker 02

  But it's good. Like, I want more and more for kids also to be able to learn. I think also, learning about business and having lots of small business owners is great because you want, I want kids to be able to like, understand that they can create as well. Like, you have an idea, like, my daughter wants, you know, a clothing store or something like, or like, I always think about, like, should 23Me create a retail store? Like, be able to walk in?

• 42:59Marina Mogilko?

  Like an experience, yeah.

• 43:00Speaker 02

  An experience. I think it'll be so fun. So I'm always, I'm always thinking about that. I'm always thinking about what else can I create?

• 43:08Marina Mogilko?

  Thank you so much for downtown.

• 43:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:10Marina Mogilko?

  And all the things that you were doing, so 2024 was a brutal year for you with bankruptcy and having to buy out your company. Did you ever have thoughts of giving up? Like, this is not something I want to do. I just want to live a happy life.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  I thought about it a lot. Like, do I, because it became, you know, there's moments where I'm like, is this a sign from God that like, I should give up? Because like, everything is pointing in the direction that things are not going well. You know, there's, I called a friend who had also started a company and given it up and had walked away. And he, he was like, look, I think about it every single day of my life. He's like, I just always regret it. He's like, I just, I wish I hadn't. And in some ways, it's, I felt like I had a responsibility. Like, one, I love 23Me. So there was a selfish component of like, I just love it. The second thing is like, I felt a real moral responsibility to my customers, all 14 million, and my employees.

• 44:07Speaker 02

  And the responsibility that I felt was that I promised them that 23Me was going to be a company, a mission-driven company, focused on helping people access, understand, and benefit from the human genome. I really believe strongly that you want the company that owns that genetic information should be a neutral party, meaning that they should be supporting research all around the world, but it should not be owned by a single pharma company. It should not be owned by a single entity. And I thought about like, my sister, like my deceased sister, her genetic information's in 23Me. I don't want that owned by a single company. I want every single researcher in the world

• 44:50Speaker 02

  who's doing lung cancer work to have access, to be able to make a difference. And like, this is a community that came together to make a difference. I felt this huge moral responsibility that I should do whatever I could to make sure that we were true to that mission. And I feel really lucky. I feel really, really lucky that I got it. And I'm not a person that was like, oh, I really wanted to just like, hang out and like, sit at the pool all day. I would love slightly more work-life balance. And I, I would, like, I am trying to take, like, have, again, now I have an amazing, I have 175 people at the company, I have an amazing management team. So I have more of that time to do things like this and to, you know, volunteer at my kid's school and things like that.

• 45:34Speaker 02

  But, you know, it's kind of all the things that we talked about at the very beginning is that you want to do something in your life every single day that brings meaning.

• 45:42Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 45:42Speaker 02

  And if I thought of, again, anything that I learned from Susan was like, contributing on a daily basis and feeling like you're having an impact on the world is the most important thing. And it was a really, really hard year. And there's definitely things I would have changed. But I love what I do.

• 45:59Marina Mogilko?

  What's your key learning from that year?

• 46:01Speaker 02

  There's a dark side and then there's like the positive side. I think the dark side was, I was really surprised that how many people backed away from helping me. I was really surprised in bankruptcy at, you know, the friends who showed up. And so I think it kind of came to me as a bit, as like, you know, you do live, we're in Silicon Valley. It's a very competitive, aggressive environment. And I have always, like, I operate in a way where I feel like, I try to always be honorable and I try to be genuine and ethical. I think that was like, one of the hardest things for me is like, wow, like, I might be, I might be playing in the wrong community.

• 46:42Speaker 02

  And in a community of people that are not necessarily there to support. I think on the positive side, the thing that impressed me the most was, you know, my customers and my employees who rose to the challenge. I couldn't do it without them. And they were there, they stuck with it. And they also, like, they embody the mission and they care. And they feel this responsibility and that passion. And there's really good people in the world. You have to just make sure that you spend the time with them and align yourself. Like, I feel really, really good every single day that I feel like I'm doing things that make a difference. Like, I'm doing things that make a difference with 23Me.

• 47:25Speaker 02

  I'm totally unfettered on making decisions that are really about best interest of humanity. I love what I do with Los Altos. I love what I do with Susan Wojcicki Foundation. And I work with extraordinary people. Having a community that supports you and supports the mission and you can trust them is a really special thing. So, you know, I think about like, community is a theme that I have throughout my life. Like, I have my family I'm really close to. I've tried really hard to build a community in Los Altos. I have a very strong 23Me community. And I try to have a really strong, like, 23Me experience and ecosystem. Be a brand that fundamentally is always going to be trusted and have the back of customers.

• 48:10Marina Mogilko?

  I really like what you said about being true to yourself. It's tempting to be dishonest to chase success, especially in Silicon Valley, when everyone's moving so fast, some people are cheating. I love that. Whenever I think about projects, I think about, how can I do them long-term and be true to myself?

• 48:29Speaker 02

  My parents and like, my grandparents and everyone. Like, I think also people, again, you're an immigrant. Like, my parents, my dad, you know, escaped communism and his father was imprisoned by Stalin. And I just think about like, the really important decisions that people made that really impact society. And I want to be somebody who's like, always operating with that kind of, you know, ethical compass.

• 48:55Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah. Talk to me about your kids.

• 48:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:58Marina Mogilko?

  You made, they are, and you made such an inspiring decision. Like, I've never thought about that. When I realized you had a baby at 40?

• 49:07Speaker 02

  Forty-five.

• 49:08Marina Mogilko?

  Forty-five. So I told you, I really want a third kid, but I don't feel like I'm ready. Like, these two are a lot. Talk to me about that decision. Did you have any concerns about having a kid at that age?

• 49:20Speaker 02

  Being divorced was really, really hard for me. There was the aspects of like, the loss of a family. But there was also the loss of like, oh my God, I, like, I want to have more kids. I felt really determined that I was not going to let. You know, a marital status impact my decision to have kids. And at the same time, I think I always joked with people that the only thing worse than one custody agreement is two custody agreements. And so I was, I was very, I was very gun shy is like, okay, am I actually going to reproduce with like another consenting individual? I ran into my, my OB one day at, at Pete's and I was like, oh, I want to have another child. And she was like, you do?

• 50:02Marina Mogilko?

  Classic.

• 50:02Speaker 02

  And she was, and I was like, oh shit, you know, you're right. Like I, I should get on this. And you know, they kind of torture you going through a donor, a sperm donor process where you have to like, like do all these therapy meetings.

• 50:14Marina Mogilko?

  Did you pick a scientist or something, like someone with a PhD?

• 50:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I wanted, I wanted to find somebody who was gonna, characteristics that would be, that would match in well. And, um, and I, I listen, I like, it was, it was one of those things like I was really, I went into it, I, I would, we get, and you have to go through all this therapy and everyone told me, you're never going to get pregnant, you're never going to get pregnant, you're never going to get pregnant. And so you had to do all these therapy sessions doing it. And I was like, I get it, you guys, like I'm old and my numbers are bad. Um, but I'm just going to try it because if you don't try.

• 50:47Marina Mogilko?

  You never know.

• 50:48Speaker 02

  You never know. But I didn't even do a pregnancy test because I was like, ah, there's no reason.

• 50:52Marina Mogilko?

  First attempt, it worked?

• 50:54Speaker 02

  No, the first, I actually got pregnant the first time and then I miscarried, but I was like, holy cow, like the machine works. Um, and, and then a couple of months later I got pregnant and I just, every, and I, I was almost in denial, like even at eight months, I was still like riding my bike around and I was like, ah, like I think I'm pregnant.

• 51:14Marina Mogilko?

  So it was an easy pregnancy?

• 51:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. I'm so lucky. I mean, I'm so, so lucky and I feel for all the people who've had like tough reproductive journeys and all this. And I do think on all these areas like, um, stress, again, going back to stress and that impact, like the fact that I really went into it like, okay, like I, I, I don't think I'm going to get pregnant and I have to just be okay that like I have two really amazing children. Like I always tell people like walking, having a mentality where you know, failure is the likely outcome. Um, but, but you're trying still.

• 51:47Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 51:47Speaker 02

  And.

• 51:48Marina Mogilko?

  It helps. Doesn't put much stress on what you're doing.

• 51:52Speaker 02

  Again, it was, um, a whole journey of like, okay, well, like now I'm having, I'm doing this on my own and I had, um, you know, one of my best friends at the la, like my labor was a party because I had, I was like, I, there's like a communal, we're like all going to raise this baby and, um, and it was so fun. Family is the best and, um, I spend a lot of time with family. I, um, dedicate a huge amount of my energy to the family and you know, part of it is like, you have to invest, like good relationships come with investment, but I am really lucky to, you know, have three kids that are all, you know, so far pretty nice to me.

• 52:29Marina Mogilko?

  How was raising her, like the early days, uh, when you were 45? Yeah, all good. But is it easier than the first?

• 52:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, because the big kids help.

• 52:37Marina Mogilko?

  Oh, okay.

• 52:38Speaker 02

  I'm a big believer, like people having an age gap is really fun because you're just so much more relaxed.

• 52:44Marina Mogilko?

  And also you're more secure with your job, you know, what are you doing? It's your third kid.

• 52:50Speaker 02

  You're just secure with everything and the big kids come in to help. They, like you can go out to dinner and they watch them and you're just like, you know that they're likely to survive. Like you're not, you know, you're not so incompetent that, um, that you'll do, like you're just, and you're comfortable with school and like clothes and I mean, it's amazing. Like my daughter doesn't have to buy anything because like we just like, we have this closet.

• 53:11Marina Mogilko?

  You saved all of it? Okay, good.

• 53:12Speaker 02

  Well, we saved, like not only, like some people come to the house and they're like, wow, your house is like a playground. I'm like, I'm, I'm like the.

• 53:18Marina Mogilko?

  Accumulating.

• 53:19Speaker 02

  It's like, it's like a funnel, like all the kids' stuff from like all 10, like it's all come down to us. And so we have like tons and tons.

• 53:26Marina Mogilko?

  Amazing.

• 53:27Speaker 02

  Of, of items from the last 20 years.

• 53:30Marina Mogilko?

  Do you have any hard rules when it comes to being a working mom? Like I'm home by six, I don't work on weekends.

• 53:36Speaker 02

  There's no difference. Like before I had kids, I was like a machine, like I was like always working. I remember I would sleep and like my BlackBerry was like next to my head, like it was, it was like my companion. I mean, now I'm very clear, like I go to bed when the kids go to bed. I try to almost never do a dinner and in those early days with the kid, like, and early on, like my kids came on a lot of my trips. I try, I'm not good with boundaries. Like I remember my son at the European Society of Human Genetics. And I told him, I was like, take a notepad and go and interview the different. I was like seven and I gave, I gave him a little notepad and he was walking around to all the booths and I was like, just interview people and ask them questions and then come back in an hour.

• 54:15Marina Mogilko?

  Oh, that's a great experience.

• 54:16Speaker 02

  It was great, but he came back and I remember he was like, I've learned genetics is very important. I'm like, I'm so proud. But I, I, I try to almost always do dinner. Um, I think the other thing is don't, like you have to show up. Like I have to, like I try to volunteer pretty regularly with the kids. Um, the older kids are, are cute. They'll say like, oh, you don't have to drive me so and so, so and where, but they actually really want you to.

• 54:41Marina Mogilko?

  Hmm.

• 54:42Speaker 02

  Um, and so showing up is meaningful and you have to then really prioritize what do you do at work? Um, and I think for me also as a leader, I try to make sure that trickles down to everybody and be really respectful of people at dinnertime and, um, at like seeing their children's performances or somebody's moving their child into college. Like having true work, life balance and respecting people's is important. And I think as a leader of a company, if we want to change society, you have to honor and respect that people also have to support their families.

• 55:18Marina Mogilko?

  Totally.

• 55:19Speaker 02

  And so like if, if the world is saying like, oh, there's, you know, fertility crisis, you have to have more children. Okay, have more children, but then you have to be work friendly.

• 55:28Marina Mogilko?

  Mm hmm.

• 55:29Speaker 02

  And so you can't have both. You can't be like, oh, it's a nine, nine, six world.

• 55:32Marina Mogilko?

  Six weeks off after having a baby.

• 55:35Speaker 02

  It's like, it's not feasible.

• 55:36Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 55:37Speaker 02

  And so I had, um, I mean, that was the thing I had, 23Me does hire a lot of women. And so like I regularly had like, I would like be breastfeeding with my child and like in meetings and like doing different things, like everyone, it just became very normal. My primary rule is again, to be super friendly, um, family friendly as a company, to make sure that I sort of ruthlessly prioritize what's actually important and to be home at a, at a reasonable time.

• 56:00Marina Mogilko?

  Makes sense. I wanted to ask you about being married to Sergey. I don't know if you want to answer it, but it's just, um, I wonder if two very ambitious people who have their companies can coexist in a marriage with kids. What would be your learning?

• 56:14Speaker 02

  Our example said no.

• 56:15Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 56:16Speaker 02

  And so, um, I think it definitely can.

• 56:19Marina Mogilko?

  What helps survive?

• 56:21Speaker 02

  Help. You know, it's interesting, like I remember talking to, um, Jane, the CEO of, of Citibank, who, and I have to say, give kudos to Citigroup that she, when her kids were little, she took off, I can't remember if she stopped working or if she went part-time for a while, but like she recognized at some point, like I'm, I'm taking on more responsibility now. I need more of that time. And then went back and obviously went on to be incredibly successful. I think in a relationship, it's always, it's always a push and pull.

• 56:51Marina Mogilko?

  Hmm.

• 56:51Speaker 02

  And in the early days, my kids wanted me all the time. And it was hard, like my kids, like really wanted me around all the time and they wanted to be at my house all the time. They're older now and you know, like frankly, like my kids are like really clear. They're like, um, you're not helping us with math homework, that is. And, or like if they're 3D printing stuff, they're like, you know, there's some things, mom, that you're good at. And there's some things we go to him for. You know, I think it's, you, you kind of step in and out at different times. So I think that's the beauty of a relationship that works well is that you can support, like it's pistons, it's piston engine and you're just, you know, responsive at different times.

• 57:34Speaker 02

  But it is that recognition, like it's hard, like who's going to cook? Who cleans? I mean, like the amount.

• 57:40Marina Mogilko?

  Who gets to travel? Cause it's only one person who can travel at a time.

• 57:45Speaker 02

  A hundred, I mean, in the early days for me, because my kids wanted to be with me all the time, they were like traveling with me. And I remember I have this like image of us like going at the train in DC and I'm like carrying car seats and like the kids and I was like.

• 58:00Marina Mogilko?

  And you have a meeting to prep.

• 58:01Speaker 02

  Oh, a hundred percent. And I remember the, I mean, the stuff that we did, it was like, it was so crazy. Even I remember after the FDA warning letter and you know, being at the White House and I was like, can I bring my kids? And.

• 58:15Marina Mogilko?

  How old were they like then?

• 58:16Speaker 02

  Small enough to spill M and Ms all over the floor. It was hard. It's like definitely it's, it's, I read like respect, like for all working parents recognizing it's hard. And if you have two people who have like high pressure jobs.

• 58:30Marina Mogilko?

  And that's the reality for a lot of people in Silicon Valley because you won't survive here otherwise.

• 58:34Speaker 02

  I know.

• 58:34Marina Mogilko?

  You can't survive in one.

• 58:35Speaker 02

  Well, I think this is where you need community.

• 58:38Marina Mogilko?

  Comes back to, yeah.

• 58:40Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. I look at like, there was one day where, um, my youngest, again, I had meetings, I had something to do and I was just like calling my neighbors. I'm like, so what's your daughter doing right now? Do you want my daughter too? Um, and they were so great. They're like a hundred percent, bring her over, like we'll, you know, and she had the time of her life. She was so happy, so. Leveraging the community is the only way you can survive. You have to support each other. And I think that's where like the pandemic did open the world of like, okay, we can have, you know, people who are remote, people like lots of people at 23 moved home, you know, moved away to be near family who could help with kids, like completely understand, like all of that is is key.

• 59:24Speaker 02

  Like it's hard, like you have to have support.

• 59:26Marina Mogilko?

  Tough, but somehow we're making it work.

• 59:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, with the dog on your lap. Yeah, that's how.

• 59:33Marina Mogilko?

  All right. One last question. Can you finish the sentence for everyone who's watching? The smartest thing you can do for your body in 2026 is?

• 59:43Speaker 02

  One, everyone should get genetic testing. Hands down, like everyone should know what their genetic risk is. Second, exercise every day, just like right now.

• 59:51Marina Mogilko?

  Every day.

• 59:52Speaker 02

  A hundred like, but small things. And I think people shouldn't get overwhelmed. Do 50 squats a day, broken up into five segments. Like do 10, we're gonna do, we're gonna do squats after this, like, because we've been sitting for an hour. Like just something small. The way to build the habit is like you just do something small every day. And then I'd say like cut out soda.

• 1:00:11Marina Mogilko?

  Oh, even probiotic? What do you have with you? What kind of soda?

• 1:00:17Speaker 02

  That was just sparkling water. I have, in general, like I, I was thinking about like, understanding what your core risks are. And then exercise makes a huge difference in your life.

• 1:00:28Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:29Speaker 02

  And so like the more you can just integrate it into your life, like take the stairs instead of the elevator. You know, do some jumping jacks, like if your kids are playing, you play. Move around, get a walking, like a standing desk, things like that. Like it makes a huge difference, like walk the dog. But like, all of that makes a big difference. And then on food, like my kids are really good. We have a garden, but I try to make them like have a salad, have cucumbers. Like my kids are very good at eating cucumbers with salt, but like just something like I avoid sugar. Like I, and as soon as I cut it out, it's like, I never want it again. So like, I just never have like soda, like sugar, sugar water is just like one of the worst things for you. I always have my vegetables.

• 1:01:10Marina Mogilko?

  Love it. Thank you so much, Anne. And it looks like what you are doing has come together in this day and age with AI.

• 1:01:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:18Marina Mogilko?

  It looks like you've been preparing for this.

• 1:01:21Speaker 02

  I mean, I think that the, I, I mean, going back to sort of where we started, I, I do feel like, you know, 23 and me in many ways has just been very early. We set out, like I look at my deck, my fundraising deck from 2013. It was like, you know, we're not a genetic testing company. Like we're not just, you know, an ancestry company, like we're a big data company. And that goal has always been like fundamentally, if you can understand the human genome, we can all benefit. And so that's why the, the mission has always been, you know, help people access, understand and benefit from it. We're set up like everything about how we set up our research infrastructure and how we consent people. And we give people choice and transparency and we've created this community. It's like 14 million people, 90% have opted into research.

• 1:02:05Speaker 02

  We collect tons of information on, we ask our customers questions like, you know, do you have dogs? Or do you have allergies? And we could do extraordinary research. Like people have no idea how many insights we have across everything from like fun phenotypes, like, you know, handedness, are you left-handed, right-handed, eye color, medication response, you know, pet allergies, cancer risk, like all of it. It's, it's extraordinary. And suddenly now with AI, it needs data sets. And, you know, the number one thing for us blocking, you know, 23 and me, again, we have the NERIP's paper on doing risk prediction. Like what we need next is just like, we have capital, we're capital constrained and I'm resource constrained. But those are all things that we'll fix in time.

• 1:02:50Speaker 02

  And so, but the world is suddenly primed, like the technology is there, we have the data that's there. And I have customers who are hungry to say like, let's go and we want to be healthier. We want to prevent disease and like the world is a hundred percent moved into that, that space now.

• 1:03:07Marina Mogilko?

  And that's amazing that you never gave up.

• 1:03:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're stubborn. Yeah.

• 1:03:10Marina Mogilko?

  Thank you so much.

• 1:03:11Speaker 02

  Thank you so much.

• 1:03:11Marina Mogilko?

  So inspiring. Thank you.

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