Patrick Ewing in a rare sit-down opens up like never before on missing a championship, his Knicks legacy, NYC pressure, rivalries with Michael Jordan & Hakeem Olajuwon, Georgetown, his parents’ sacrifice, and his one regret

“That is the one regret I have of my time playing in New York.”-Patrick Ewing In this powerful episode of The Pivot Podcast, NBA legend Patrick Ewing sits down for a candid and reflective conversation about the journey that shaped his life and career. This one hits differently as the Hall of Famer, who rarely shares, opens up on all the highs and lows with transparency, emotion and even a touch of humor. From his early upbringing and path to basketball greatness, Ewing opens up about the discipline, challenges, and mindset that carried him from humble beginnings to becoming a dominant force at Georgetown to NBA legend. Grounded by the sacrifice of his parents, Patrick Ewing praises his family's move to the United States from Jamaica and how it not only saved his life but paved the way for him to live his dream. He revisits his iconic college years, where he helped turn Georgetown into a national powerhouse, and shares what it meant to play under the legendary John Thompson. Ewing opens up on his pivotal moment being selected as the NBA's first overall pick to New York and how he became the cornerstone of the Knicks best years and adjusted to Big Apple fame—embracing the pressure of the bright lights, the physicality of 90s basketball, and the responsibility of leading a franchise hungry for a championship. The conversation doesn’t shy away from the toughest on-court battles and heated rivalries. Ewing reflects on intense matchups against Michael Jordan and Hakeem Olajuwon, offering insight into what made those rivalries so challenging and memorable. He speaks honestly about coming close to an NBA title but never quite securing one, and how that reality has shaped his perspective over time. He also gets into the truth behind his once rocky relationship with his former coach Pat Riley and his gratitude for Jeff Van Gundy. Whether you are a sports fan or love a success story rooted in family and hard work, this will connect with you as we take a trip down memory lane through one of the most infamous times in all of sports, classic moments forever etched in our mind, and inside stories from some of the greatest basketball games and athletes to ever play, told from the perspective of an absolute legend. How Ewing views his impact on the game, what he hopes people remember, and how he’s found peace with both the triumphs and the unfinished business of his career is one of the more honest, thoughtful, and deeply human conversations we've had that goes far beyond basketball. Pivot Family, comment, like, hit the subscribe button, we enjoy hearing and learning from you- the good and the bad, we want to know! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an Ultra. Because it's not just a superior-like beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser-Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 0:28Ryan Clark?

  Patrick Ewing's basketball journey started as a gangly 12-year-old who took his first shot in Cambridge, Massachusetts. And it ends with him becoming a Knicks legend and one of the greatest centers in NBA history. His family taught him hard work. Specifically, his mother, who came to America from Jamaica first to work and allow her family to come over one by one. But once they were in America, the Ewing's quickly realized that the streets of America were not paved with gold. Even through the hard times, basketball became Patrick Ewing's savior. Well, that and legendary Georgetown coach, John Thompson, who called Ewing "the greatest player in the history of the university."

• 1:11Ryan Clark?

  We even went down memory lane a bit and recalled Ewing's first time meeting and playing his nemesis, Michael Jordan, in the high school All-American circuit. We talked the Georgetown connection, the Allen Iversons, the Alonzo Mornings, and the Dikembe Mutumbos. And sadly, we got into what it was like to lose the big man. It was interesting to hear Patrick Ewing speak about championships, especially since he and his New York Knicks came up just shy when Michael Jordan went away to play baseball. But he did tell us that he would never criticize John Starks for his Game 7 Finals failure. And his reason why is a good one. We finished with the one thing that Patrick Ewing regrets about his career.

• 1:55Ryan Clark?

  Patrick Ewing is a true gentleman, but my God, he's fun. This is honesty, this is realness, and transparency at its finest, which is perfect for our convo on Jalen Brunson and this year's New York Knicks. Pivot fam, it's time to pivot again as we take a deep dive with all-time Knicks great, Patrick Ewing. And his sit-down starts right now.

• 2:37Ryan Clark?

  Hey, Chad, I hit him up. I was like, hey, man, you know, let me know when you're on your way. He's like, shit, I forgot.

• 2:42Speaker 02

  I had to run home, change, let me throw something on.

• 2:48Ryan Clark?

  You were led to, you could do that.

• 2:49Speaker 02

  Nah.

• 2:50Ryan Clark?

  Who waited for you, baby?

• 2:51Speaker 02

  Nah. I pride myself on being on time. If I'm gonna say I'm gonna be somewhere, I pride myself on getting there.

• 2:59Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 2:59Speaker 02

  Just getting old, boss.

• 3:01Ryan Clark?

  Hey, that's part of it.

• 3:02Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 3:03Ryan Clark?

  That's part of it, man. The voice you hear and the man you see is Patrick Ewing. Nate Smith, Hall of Famer. I mean, national champion, three-time All-American with the three finals, 11 All-Stars, seven-time All-NBA Team. I mean, the list goes on and on of what you have accomplished. So this is really an honor for us, something I've been trying. I hit your son up about it. When I saw you at the hotel that day, I've been texting, so I'm glad we're able to get it done. This is Channing Crowder, this is Fred Taylor, Ryan Clark, Pivot fam. Thank you for being with us. I just read all those accolades, Patrick, and man, there's so many of them. And I feel like every time people talk about you, they go, man, but if he plays in a different era, he got a championship.

• 3:47Ryan Clark?

  How often do you think about how good of an individual player you were, how great some of those Knicks teams were, but how much y'all fell just short?

• 3:58Speaker 02

  Well, first of all, I just want to say thank y'all for having me on. I'm a big fan of all three of you guys. I watch y'all. When he came, when he approached me with coming on, I'm like, heck, yeah.

• 4:07Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 4:08Speaker 02

  Definitely. I love it. You know, I try not to... Compare my era to this era or eras in the past. I know whatever era I played in, I'd be dominant. You know, I was one of the big men who could shoot, but I didn't shoot a lot of threes. Michael and I always joke about, he's like, man, but you can't dribble. I said, all I need is two dribbles. Two, that's it, just two. Two dribbles, I can get from the free throw line to the hole. So it doesn't make a difference what era I'm in. I think I can still dominate. I watch and I admire the things that the guys are doing now. They are more skilled in terms of putting the ball on the floor, shooting threes, especially the, you know, the bigs, the Jokic, Embiid.

• 4:52Speaker 02

  But, you know, I feel that we had a heart. We had athleticism just like them. But, you know, the game's changed. The game changed in 94 after we played Houston. You know, it was too physical. That series was so physical, the NBA was like, no, we have to change, we have to change the rules. So that's why it changed. That's why they wanted more free flowing, more threes. And it is what it is.

• 5:17Channing Crowder?

  But you say, I don't like it. I don't like it, Pat. You say too physical. There's no such thing as too physical.

• 5:25Speaker 02

  Hey, look.

• 5:26Channing Crowder?

  Like that change you're talking about, does that make the game better or just make people score more points?

• 5:32Speaker 02

  You know, I'm not gonna say it's better or worse. Definitely more points. The scoring has definitely gone up. You know, it's funny, I was looking at the Iceman. He scored 70 something points without any threes. If he scored 79 without any three, or 70, whatever it was, without any threes, imagine what he would have done if he shot the three. So it doesn't make a difference, you know, threes or twos. We just got it the hard way and one. And one.

• 6:02Channing Crowder?

  Come in there and earn it.

• 6:04Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 6:05Fred Taylor?

  But you guys are, you're talking about physicality though. I mean, I'm sure y'all had to watch film and you would see what Detroit was doing. Bill and Beard, Rodman, y'all clotheslining people out there. Like, it looked like a football game. Truth be told, it looked like, so the NBA sort of, they sort of needed to taper it, taper it down a bit. But what were, what were some of those discussions in film sessions like? Cause y'all could see another team kick ass and say, look, if we don't match this intensity, they gonna do us like that. And we gonna be on their film. For the next opponent they're gonna face, you know what I'm saying, studying it.

• 6:38Speaker 02

  Pat Riley had a rule.

• 6:39Fred Taylor?

  Okay.

• 6:40Speaker 02

  Anybody comes in the paint, you put them on their back. If you pick them up, that's a fine. So, you know, yeah, we was definitely physical. We weren't trying to be the Detroit, weren't trying to be the bad boys, but we had our own version of that. You know, we had myself, you had Oak, you had Mace. An ex played with us, he had X. So, we were a physical ball club. And we weren't gonna take any trash from anybody, Detroit, Bulls, whoever. Unfortunately, we played in an era where they had that guy 2-3. We had that guy 2-3. And then, you know, when we finally, when he took, uh, took those two years off, then unfortunately, you know, we didn't get past, I couldn't get past Akeem. Akeem got, I got Akeem in college, he got me in the NBA.

• 7:24Speaker 02

  That was definitely frustrating, it was definitely heartbreaking. You know, we lost to them, then I, I thought for sure we was gonna get there the next year. My knees were bothering me, they drained my knee, and my knee swallowed like, I mean, my legs swallowed like a balloon. So, that next series, if you see, uh, the next year, I had a, a white sleeve on my leg. That's because my legs, it was, it blew up like a balloon. I'm not sure what happened, but, you know, we don't have the technology that they do now back then. But I fought through, and that's the year I missed the layup. And we weren't able to get back to play against, we would've played Orlando. And then hopefully, uh, back to play, uh, Houston again.

• 8:05Fred Taylor?

  You, you mentioned that two years that Mike took off. What was the, the, the overall vibe of the, of the league? Like, did everybody feel like, okay, now is our time? Or was it kind of somber? Did you guys really think he wouldn't come back?

• 8:18Speaker 02

  We didn't know. He and I are friends, we had the same agent, and no one was saying anything. David Falk wasn't saying anything, Michael wasn't saying anything. So, you know, when you are, when you're going into war, you know, all of us, we compare sports to war. When you're going into war, we don't think about. Who we're going against? We just go, okay, who is next?

• 8:38Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 8:38Speaker 02

  So if it was Chicago, because we had to get past Chicago still to get back, to get to the finals. So it didn't make a difference who it was. We just had to get out there and go to war.

• 8:49Ryan Clark?

  You know, I've heard you talk millions of times. It feels like, now, listen, I was a Bulls fan. I'm just gonna be honest with you.

• 8:57Speaker 02

  There's a lot of people that were.

• 8:58Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I was a Bulls.

• 8:59Speaker 02

  See, you know, you from New Orleans, so that's why.

• 9:00Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, no question.

• 9:01Speaker 02

  You know what I'm saying?

• 9:01Ryan Clark?

  We have a squad back then, you know? And I don't feel like I've ever heard you have an accent until sitting here with you now. Sitting here with you now, I'm like, wait. Yeah, he does have a little hint.

• 9:15Speaker 02

  It comes out.

• 9:16Ryan Clark?

  Of an accent.

• 9:17Speaker 02

  It comes out.

• 9:17Ryan Clark?

  When your parents moved you and your siblings here, what is it, seven of y'all total?

• 9:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, seven.

• 9:22Ryan Clark?

  Seven. When you guys moved from, you know, Jamaica to Massachusetts, what was that transition like for y'all as an entire family? It obviously ends up working out in a great way, but that had to be difficult as a kid.

• 9:37Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, it was definitely, it was definitely difficult. First, my mom moved here first.

• 9:41Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 9:41Speaker 02

  So she moved here first. She was a nanny slash maid. So, you know, back then, you could, you know, move up, you know, work for a certain amount of time, and then you were able to move on. So she worked for 10 years or whatever it was, got her freedom. Got her freedom. So she, then she started, both her and my dad, he was in Jamaica, saving his money. My mom was up here saving money. Then my dad and my sister that was above me, she came. Then myself and my younger sister came. So we came up two by two, you know, one by one. So that's how it happened. We were fortunate, the only reason why we wound up in Massachusetts was, um, that's where the job was. So she got a job and it was in that area.

• 10:26Speaker 02

  And then there's a large Westernian population in that area. So on her days off, she would go hang out with her friends that, you know, they were also from the islands. That's where they lived in Cambridge, Massachusetts. So naturally, once she was able to move on and to her next opportunity, that's where she decided to live. And that's where we all, we all lived and.

• 10:49Ryan Clark?

  What's that like, though, when your family is basically being separated?

• 10:54Speaker 02

  Oh, it's rough.

• 10:55Channing Crowder?

  In, in order to give all of you a better chance and opportunity at life, that's an amazing sacrifice.

• 11:03Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, it's, it's rough. She was up here and my dad and my sister, my siblings, my grandmother was alive at that time. So, you know, of course, we, you know, we as kids, we missed our mom. You know, and sometimes she'll surprise us and come back. And, you know, we, we weren't, we weren't rich, so we were all poor. Um, so, you know, it, it was a struggle. And then, you know, hearing that we're moving to America. And, you know, back then, you're like, man, we moving to America. You know, the streets are paved with gold and all this. You know, you're thinking about.

• 11:34Channing Crowder?

  That when you get here.

• 11:35Speaker 02

  Think about how great it's gonna be. I moved, I'm like, when I get off the plane, I'm like, this.

• 11:44Speaker 02

  Oh, you know, it's, it was a shock.

• 11:45Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 11:46Speaker 02

  It was a shock. And then, you know, all the, the negatives, being in Boston. Uh, Americans didn't want you, the black Americans didn't want you there because, you know, you, they're like, you come in here to take our job. The whites didn't want you there because you're black. So, you know, you had to go through both, both of those, um, obstacles. And then, you know, I was also tall. I was, I was 12, I was 5'11". So, people thought I was older than I was, even though my, I had a younger face. But, um, you know, I would get teased a lot about my accent, about my height. You know, I hadn't grown into my body yet, being, you know, uncoordinated. But, you know, learnt this game of basketball. And that, that has changed, definitely changed my life.

• 12:31Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, you the biggest Jamaican I ever met.

• 12:35Speaker 02

  When I go back, that's what they say. That's what they say.

• 12:39Channing Crowder?

  Boy, you stupid, dawg.

• 12:40Speaker 02

  Me and the family go to Jamaica every Christmas.

• 12:42Channing Crowder?

  You ain't never seen one that tall?

• 12:44Speaker 02

  That's what they say.

• 12:45Channing Crowder?

  Jupe pot chicken?

• 12:46Speaker 02

  Hey.

• 12:47Channing Crowder?

  The side of the road chicken? It'd be delicious, but, yeah.

• 12:50Speaker 02

  Jerk, jerk chicken and all that. Yeah.

• 12:52Channing Crowder?

  But do you ever think, think about that, that, that transition of what your parents were doing? Did they know that, correct me if I'm wrong, you wouldn't be the Patrick Ewing that we know if they didn't do that, if you didn't come to America?

• 13:05Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I mean, every, my mom and my father, you know, they're, they're passed away and. My mom was not able to see the fruits of her labor. She died when I was going into my junior year of college. And my dad, so he was able to see it. He was able to see what I was able to become. And every time I go back home to Boston, I go to, when I go to their gravesite, I always, I always say, "Thank you." You know, "Thank you." Because I knew that if I had stayed in Jamaica, the opportunities that I would have had wouldn't have been the same. I would have went, I would have, I would have went down the wrong road. I'd be, I would have been either dead or in jail.

• 13:47Speaker 02

  So, moving here and, you know, falling, falling in love with, with the game of basketball, that changed, that changed my, my life and, and my family's life.

• 13:56Ryan Clark?

  I'm gonna tell you what, you would have been dead in jail for sure, because ain't no criminal seven-two. They don't have, hey.

• 14:01Channing Crowder?

  He ain't selling nothing, he's sneaking nowhere.

• 14:04Ryan Clark?

  It's him.

• 14:06Speaker 02

  The, the big guy.

• 14:07Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, they be like.

• 14:08Speaker 02

  The long one, the long one.

• 14:09Ryan Clark?

  Description, seven foot. That was Patrick.

• 14:13Ryan Clark?

  That's Patrick.

• 14:13Channing Crowder?

  He right over there.

• 14:15Speaker 02

  But it, it was, you know, moving here was a great opportunity.

• 14:20Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 14:20Speaker 02

  And it was a risk, but it was a great opportunity.

• 14:23Fred Taylor?

  Can you imagine, because in Jamaica, what is it, cricket and soccer? Can y'all imagine? And track, right, and track. Patrick playing goalie. He got everything covered. It's all, it's all tech.

• 14:35Speaker 02

  That was my first love. Soccer was my first, we call it football. That was my first love. You know, I wanted to be the next Pele.

• 14:42Fred Taylor?

  Okay.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  You know, Pele was my idol. Muhammad Ali and Pele. And then, you know,

• 14:49Speaker 02

  come here and fall in love with the next, you know, fall in love with basketball, that changed everything. But, you know, I was blessed to, yes, moving here, but then the people that I was able to meet. You know, my friends, the coaches, all of those guys that taught me about basketball, taught me about, you know, Bill Russell, taught me about all the Celtics great, because that's, you know, in Boston, that's, that's, that's, that's where, where I live. But they, they put in the work to, to, um, help me to be, to develop and to become the player that I became. And then Big John, he took it over and, and.

• 15:25Ryan Clark?

  Yes, sir.

• 15:25Channing Crowder?

  The names you bring up, you talking about Bill Russell, and you talk, you said, Hakeem, and you talk two, three, we know you talking about Mike, you got a shirt on right now. And all of that, but you keep saying, "When I fell in love with basketball." You were just a big dude, and you said you was goofy.

• 15:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 15:41Channing Crowder?

  Like, what was the falling in love with basketball portion of your life?

• 15:47Speaker 02

  From the first day.

• 15:50Speaker 02

  Wherever I lived in Cambridge, I was right, the park was right, right in my backyard. It was like, you know, there was a fence, but that was the park. And every day I would be, I'd be on the park, on the swing set, just doing normally kid, kid stuff. And these kids was in there playing ball. And they're like, they needed another, another body. So they like, you know, will you, you want to play? I'm like, I don't, I don't know how to play. From that day, me playing, I didn't know anything about it, but I fell in love with it. I fell in love with it. Soccer, I didn't even remember anything about soccer. Basketball was, was, was what I fell in love with. And, you know, like I said, I was, I wasn't any good. I was, you know, clumsy, I was awkward, I was 5'11".

• 16:36Speaker 02

  And I remember I was trying out for this team. And one of the coach, we were running a layup line. And I ran into the other line and knocked one of the kids over. He got so mad at me, kicked me out of practice. He told me, you will, you will never be shit. You are never gonna be shit. Never gonna be shit. So a lot of times I think back, and I'm like, if I had listened to him and stopped, because, you know, I wanted to stop. I'm like, man, you know, forget him. You know, but I'm like, you know what? My goal was not to be an NBA player. My goal was, I'm doing something that I enjoy doing, I love doing. So I just kept on doing it.

• 17:15Speaker 02

  And then, like I said before, the community that I had around me, you know, they all pushed and prodded and, and, you know, help, you know, you know, helped me, stood me up. And I was able to become what I became.

• 17:27Ryan Clark?

  You mentioned John, John Thompson.

• 17:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 17:29Ryan Clark?

  Absolute legend. I'm gonna tell you something that I'm sure some other people have told you. I thought Georgetown was HBCU because of the basketball team.

• 17:42Ryan Clark?

  I remember when my dad told me that it wasn't an HBCU, I was like, no. I was like, absolutely.

• 17:49Channing Crowder?

  He was bringing in the dog.

• 17:51Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I was like Georgetown is an HBCU.

• 17:54Speaker 02

  Hey, look, a lot, even when I, when I chose to go to Georgetown, you know, a lot of kids from high school like, why are you going to all black school? I'm like, it's not all black. Well, if you look at the team, the team was predominantly black.

• 18:06Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 18:06Speaker 02

  So, we had a black coach, a predominantly black team. So, especially everybody in our community, they all thought that we were, we were black. It was, you know, HBCU, but definitely wasn't.

• 18:16Ryan Clark?

  I love that.

• 18:17Speaker 02

  It was the other way.

• 18:17Ryan Clark?

  When you're 16 years old, you know, and you falling in love with this game, and obviously, John Thompson became John Thompson during the time you were there. Right, that's when the world got to see how great of a coach he was, how great of a leader he was, three straight national championships, you guys win one. But, when a John Thompson meets a 16-year-old Patrick Ewing, what was that like for you?

• 18:44Speaker 02

  You know, it's funny because he was who he was before I got there. They had good teams before I got there. They had Bay Bay Doran, Sleepy Floyd, Craig Shelton, so they had talent. Um, I, you know, when I talk about it, I just said, you know, my class came and kicked the door down.

• 19:01Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 19:02Speaker 02

  I remember him coming to my high school to recruit me, and just sitting there in awe. You know, my mouth wide open, just, you know, just listening to him, just the way that he spoke. He was like a poet. He was eloquent, you know, he, he carried himself with dignity. He would, he made any person of color want to, that's somebody to, to look up to. And that's, that's how I saw him. When I went to all the, all the schools that I visited to, to potentially go to, that was the place I wanted to go to, to play for him. You know, he was 6'10", he was my height, um, and just, you know, he could be another father.

• 19:45Fred Taylor?

  A lot of times, players, um, like, whatever colleges you attend, you go back, if you've made it this far, got a little money, you donate back to the university. They tend to, let's say, put your name on a weight room, or a, a meeting room, you know, rarely do players donate, and then they have other people named, but you chose to donate back to Georgetown, 3.3 million, which represents your jersey number, obviously. But, instead of having your name on the building, you chose for John Thompson. And they also added a statue to that.

• 20:19Speaker 02

  Right.

• 20:20Fred Taylor?

  Why?

• 20:21Speaker 02

  When I think about George and I think about Big John, I think about him. Yes, we're the ones that was physically out there, you know, playing. But all the, the blood, sweat and tears, all the years, all the abuse, all the things that he had to endure to get to that, to that point, to get to where we won, uh, got to three championships. I mean, I think that all of that, that's what, that's what it's all about. And he got a lot of abuse, especially because of me, because, um, he had a rule freshman couldn't talk. But once we able to start talking, you know, I'm like, i- if I did all the interviews that everybody wanted me, because I was the number one player coming out of high school that year.

• 21:06Speaker 02

  I mean, I wouldn't have time to do anything else. Everybody, everybody wanted a piece, piece here, piece there. So he took the hit. And I just thought that it was, it was, it was an honor to, to be able to bless, bless him with that. I think that's amazing.

• 21:22Channing Crowder?

  Do you look back now as a grown man and see that Coach JT was like, what he was doing, what he was pushing forward?

• 21:30Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 21:30Channing Crowder?

  Like with Don Staley and all, you know what I'm saying, the different pieces? Do you look back now and see that he was decades maybe before his time?

• 21:38Speaker 02

  I mean, we look, look back at it back then. I mean, he would have, you know, he always, he had, he has a, a deflated ball in his office. And when I was there, we, we still kept it because, you know, he, he told all of us that at some point, some of us will, will go and play in the NBA, some of us won't. That's at some point, the ball is gonna stop bouncing. And, you know, so you gotta have to set yourself up for the next opportunity. I was fortunate enough to play 17 years. Alonzo, Dikembe was AI, we were all fortunate enough to play a lot of years. But there's also a lot of guys who didn't. So he would bring in guys who look like us, who are in the other sectors of life, you know,

• 22:20Speaker 02

  McDonald's CEOs or, you know, VPs, Coca-Cola, all these different, James Brown, who's huge on TV. Bring all these different people in to talk to us. Talk to us about, you know, the next chapter in our lives. And I think that all of those things was educational, but also blessing us. The only thing I would say is that I want my NIL money.

• 22:43Ryan Clark?

  Hey, you got it. Hey, boy. Hey, you might not have ever.

• 22:46Speaker 02

  I want my NIL money. I stay four years though. I want my four years of NIL.

• 22:51Ryan Clark?

  You know, in "I Came as a Shadow", John Thompson wrote that you were the greatest player to ever play for Georgetown. And he also wrote that if he saw one better than you, he'd still lie and say that you were. You know, and I thought that just said a lot about what you meant to him. But I just listened to like, some of these names that you ran off about Georgetown, AI, the Dikembe, the Alonzo, the Sleepy Floyd. My pops loved Sleepy Floyd.

• 23:18Speaker 02

  He would don't realize how great he was.

• 23:19Ryan Clark?

  Like me, when we would hoop, he'd be like, Sleepy Floyd. I'd be like, man, who the hell is that?

• 23:23Speaker 02

  You yell Kobe, you don't yell Sleepy.

• 23:25Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, he was like, Sleepy Floyd. Who do you think stacks up as some of the best to ever play for Georgetown?

• 23:34Speaker 02

  You named some right there. You have, Roy Hibbert had a great NBA career. Jeff Green. There are others. You know, you got me, you got me thinking now.

• 23:46Ryan Clark?

  Here's my question though. When you saw how AI was playing at Georgetown, was you like, man, I ain't no coach.

• 23:51Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, he ain't give me that freedom. He didn't give me that freedom.

• 23:54Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I want to say that.

• 23:54Speaker 02

  Hey, look, I'm gonna tell you a story. So, we're playing against Virginia, against Ralph Sampson.

• 24:01Ryan Clark?

  Legend.

• 24:01Speaker 02

  And Ralph came down and took, I guess it would have been a college three. I took a shot from the free throw line. He calls timeout. Get your motherfucking ass in the paint. That's where it belonged. I'm like, alright, coach.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  But, you know,

• 24:22Speaker 02

  he was, he was, he always says that he has a PhD in profanity. But he was, he was a great man. I consider him a father figure, a role model. He's just, I was blessed to be able to play for him.

• 24:39Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 25:07Ryan Clark?

  Patrick, you mentioned you were the number one player in the country, right?

• 25:10Speaker 02

  Right.

• 25:11Ryan Clark?

  But when you were in the All-American Games, there was also this guy, I believe they call him Michael, Jeffrey Jordan.

• 25:18Speaker 02

  Who's that?

• 25:19Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, you might have heard of him. And, you know, you guys saw each other again in college, very early. Could you see? Like, was it like, hey, man, this dude's gonna be the greatest basketball player to ever live? Like, when you first started to compete against him?

• 25:36Speaker 02

  You mean, you know he was good. You know he was athletic. You know he was talented. So, we played in the McDonald's games together. I also visited North Carolina when he was at North Carolina. He was also on the... He had already committed, but I think they brought him back just to talk me into trying to talk me into coming to North Carolina.

• 25:53Ryan Clark?

  That'd be hellacious.

• 25:54Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. There were other guys that, you know, I thought might have been better than him at that time. But, you know, the thing that separated him from a lot of people is that belief. He had a belief in himself. He had a drive. And I think that, and also the athleticism. I think all that separated him from everybody else.

• 26:18Channing Crowder?

  And speaking about Mike, though, that gotta be like, even Charles Barkley, y'all was all playing together. And you even said it, when Mike took them time off, you were like, okay, shit, I gotta go get it. Like, that, is there, is like that feeling that this dude is that much better? Because you was a monster. He ran off your damn stats, bro. I can't get that championship. Because that bitch in that red is about to walk out on this court.

• 26:44Speaker 02

  But, you know, it's funny, because when you were playing, you don't think about that. You know, when I'm competing, I'm like, I'm trying to bust his ass.

• 26:52Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 26:53Speaker 02

  You know, just like he trying to go at me, I'm trying to go at him. And, you know, he always talk about his centers. I'm like, I bust all of them.

• 27:00Channing Crowder?

  Yeah. Real talk.

• 27:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, but, you know, when you're playing... It's like if you guys are playing against whoever is the best team in y'all's era. Y'all playing against him, I'm not thinking about, okay, that's Brady, I'm gonna try to get Brady. I'm trying to get his ass. I'm playing against Michael, I'm trying to get him. I'm not thinking about that, you know, oh wow, you know, this is Michael, you know, I'm gonna lay homage to him and all. Nah, I'm trying to bust your ass just like you trying to bust my ass.

• 27:27Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 27:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:28Channing Crowder?

  Oh, it looked like that.

• 27:29Speaker 02

  It was, it was.

• 27:31Channing Crowder?

  It looked like that. But the confidence, like the confidence in you, because you're very humble, like RC was asking you. You ain't even bring up your name when he asked about Georgetown. Yeah. You was a monster. And you, you talking about.

• 27:42Speaker 02

  I did my best, I did my best.

• 27:43Channing Crowder?

  You talking about other people. That thought, like, that, when did it hit that I'm a Hall of Fame basketball player? I'm gonna bust everybody's ass? Like, what did it take for your mind to switch over to that? Because you say you was 5'11" in damn 3rd grade.

• 27:58Speaker 02

  I was 5'11", 5'11", I was 12. 5'11", I was 12.

• 28:02Channing Crowder?

  But when you figured it out that I'm a damn Hall of Famer, hell with MJ, I'm about to bust his ass too.

• 28:08Speaker 02

  You know, the thing is, I never, I never thought of myself as that. I just thought of myself as, one, I'm doing something that I love. Yes, I got to be good, you know, and I think that, okay, from, from 12 to like 13, 14, I've been this height since I've been 16, 15. So I've been this height since I was that young. And, you know, my body, I started, you know, getting into my own. And I think that from my high school, my first, my first game in high school, I scored one point. One point, one point, and I fouled out, I fouled out in like 5 minutes. We played against Boston College High. We played against Boston College High. And then again, you know, fast forward 4 years later, we playing against them for the championship.

• 28:52Speaker 02

  So I tell all my friends, I'm like, look, okay, I'm gonna get 40 plus that one point that I got as a freshman.

• 28:59Channing Crowder?

  Now you average 20.5.

• 29:01Speaker 02

  So I draw 41. I draw, we won the championship, but, you know, I never. I just, I just, you know, I had a, I had a passion, you know, I had a passion for it, for basketball. And I didn't care who I was gonna play against, I was trying to compete to the best of my ability to go against them. It could be Michael, we didn't play the same position, but I'm trying to kill his team. Whoever, whoever, you know, whoever he's going at, my guy, I'm going at their guy. It could be Akeem, you know, me and Akeem, we're, you know, we're, we're cool. Y'all was late. But we're, you know, we're just alike, you know, he trying to bust me and I'm trying to bust him. He gonna hit me with a bow, I'm gonna hit him with a bow. Yeah.

• 29:46Speaker 02

  That's just how it is, you know, you competing against each other, so. I never, I, you know, if I think that if you are, when you're in it, if you, if you're, you know, smelling the roses, that means you gonna, you lose all track of what you, what you. Lose that vision. Yeah, so I'm just, I'm tunnel vision, I'm blocking everything out, especially in New York. I'm blocking everything out and I'm trying to get the job done. Unfortunately, it, it, it didn't happen for me, but.

• 30:12Fred Taylor?

  You're a legend, you're, you're absolute legend, but since we're talking about competing, I do wanna ask you, best of seven series, Dream Team won versus, versus the Redeem Team in seven.

• 30:23Speaker 02

  Come on, man.

• 30:24Channing Crowder?

  I just gotta ask the OG, he was there.

• 30:26Speaker 02

  Come on.

• 30:27Fred Taylor?

  We're talking about modern era and the OGs.

• 30:29Speaker 02

  I ain't even gotta ask, I ain't gonna, I ain't even gonna answer that question. Shit, Dream Team won.

• 30:34Fred Taylor?

  So, so, alright, I, I figured you would say that, but in seven, do they win one?

• 30:38Speaker 02

  They, they, they gonna win one, they might win one, like, they, they're talented, they're, they were a great team.

• 30:43Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 30:44Speaker 02

  But we were the best team ever. I agree. Ever.

• 30:47Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 30:48Speaker 02

  See, people don't wanna, you know, they don't wanna admit that, even those guys don't wanna admit that, but we, we were the best team ever.

• 30:54Fred Taylor?

  That's the reason I just tossed it out, that wasn't even my question, but we were talking about competing. My, my question is this, cuz you went number one overall.

• 31:00Speaker 02

  Right.

• 31:00Fred Taylor?

  But it's not just like regularly going number one, you went number one in New York City.

• 31:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:06Fred Taylor?

  The Knicks, right, after they won the lottery. Talk about the pressure of going number one, but not only that, you compounded with being in a city, which is, it's bigger than basketball, like, this is New York City basketball.

• 31:18Speaker 02

  Like, when I said being tunnel vision, that's just how I looked at it. So, you know, yes, I went one, but also I was number one in, in coming out of high school.

• 31:27Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 31:28Speaker 02

  Me and Michael came out together, but I was number one. You know, I, I don't care what. Where that went, there was still gonna be pressure. And I just tried to block out the pressure. We were terrible my first two years. So, I remember we were, I don't even remember who we were playing. We were playing together. They had a Patrick Ewing poster night. I remember them ripping up the poster, ripping, ripping my head out of the poster. The guy put his head in, you know, he got his head in there. I was playing terrible that game too. He putting his head in there, throwing the poster on the floor. I just didn't let the, I tried not to let the pressure, you know, get to me. I figured my mom and dad, shit, that's pressure.

• 32:09Speaker 02

  Moving, moving from Jamaica to here, coming to a country that we didn't know nothing about, that's pressure. And to me, I'm doing something that I love, something that I enjoy, something that God has blessed me with the talent to, to be good at. So, I try to block out all of the noise and just focus on trying to be the best version of me that I could be. So, I didn't, I didn't think of it.

• 32:33Channing Crowder?

  I live in Miami now. How was it with Pat Riley? What he did, when you in New York?

• 32:39Speaker 02

  Right.

• 32:40Channing Crowder?

  And now y'all gotta play every year. And just, y'all relationship now, you grown, y'all grown men now, but how, how was you and Pat's relationship back then to now? And how did you feel what he did to the Knicks back then? Cause some, New York people think it was disrespectful. We was happy today he's in Miami, cause now we win the championship. But you and Pat Riley, where did, where did y'all sit then and where did y'all sit now?

• 33:05Speaker 02

  We had a great relationship. You know, of course, I'm, I'm the best player on the team, so, you know, we definitely had, you know, he and I had to be on the same page. You know, and the game plan, practice and all that stuff. So, he was all about, you know, I, I, I, I look back at my era. So, the biggest difference between my era and this era, we were, we were, we were practicing three hours a day. We ain't had the chefs, we ain't had the private planes.

• 33:31Channing Crowder?

  Shoot arounds.

• 33:31Speaker 02

  We ain't, no, we, we, you know, we had shoot, shoot around, we still had the tape for shoot around.

• 33:36Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 33:37Speaker 02

  But, I thought that everything that he brought to us helped us to be, uh, to be better. You know, before he came, I had, I had gone through. Five, five new co- five different coaches in, in the five years that I've been there. Four different GMs, two different owners. So, I thought that he brought a stability to the team. Now, I was disappointed when, when he left and went to Miami. You know, he and I talk about that. You know, I was, I was in Miami, I was co- uh, I was an assistant coach with the USA Basketball. And, uh, he came out, he and I talked for about an hour, and that's one of the things we talked about was why he left. I'm not gonna bring it up, but, um,

• 34:20Speaker 02

  you know, I was definitely, when I heard that he was leaving, I was disappointed. And then, you know, they brought in, uh, Don Nelson. And that wasn't a good fit. But I was very happy when, uh, Jeff Van Gundy got the job, so he was a lot, you know, a lot of the things that we did, uh, under Roz, we did with Jeff. But the funniest thing is that when we, when Roz first went to Miami and we played them, we, they're, they're running, we're both running the same play. They're calling the, you know, it's like we're in practice, we're calling, he, they're running post up for Patrick, for post up for Alonzo, it's the same play, same call. So, we're, we're like, come on, man, at least you could've changed, you could've changed the name with the play.

• 35:05Speaker 02

  We're running this, the same thing, but the same call. They did it the next year.

• 35:09Channing Crowder?

  And, and, and you, you, I was gonna say, you and Zo though. Going at Zo, going at your man. Y'all used to have some battles, but,

• 35:16Speaker 02

  Yes, we did.

• 35:16Channing Crowder?

  But you say you and Akim. It's all love. Go out to eat before the game, after the game, but bust they ass for a full quarter.

• 35:23Speaker 02

  Keem and I, yeah, we, we were close, we were good friends, but me and Alonzo, that's my guy. Alonzo, Dikembe, we, you know, we, we're Georgetown, you know, we, in the summers, I'll be back in DC, back here. You know, I would try to teach them all the things that I had learned from being in the NBA, uh, to try to get them ready for, for their, whatever, what, whatever was coming for them. So, I thought that, you know, I was the big brother, uh, to them. I taught them all the things that I could teach them to get them to where they needed to be. But when we played against each other,

• 35:58Ryan Clark?

  Is it just a switch?

• 35:59Speaker 02

  No, that switch never, never, never, never turns off.

• 36:03Ryan Clark?

  But you, you're, you're, you're, you're teaching them everything, then that horn blows.

• 36:08Speaker 02

  Oh, I know.

• 36:09Ryan Clark?

  You can go to hell after this. Like, it gotta be a time where you gotta flip that switch.

• 36:13Speaker 02

  The horn is always horn, on. It could be in the summer while we're working out, we're playing. The horn is, that switch is on. We're trying to kill each other. There be times, Big John had to come out of his office to me, "Y'all, uh-uh. Y'all, y'all gotta stop." You know, "Y'all gotta stop." And then this season, you know, I'm playing, I'm playing in Dikembe. You know, I'm trying to guard him, he elbows me in my jaw. After the game, I said, "Yo, why, why you hit me? Why you put your face in my elbow?" So, you know, it's, you know, we're, we're, we're, we're all competitive. So, you know, to me, the friendship starts, okay, we go out to dinner, we're friends with boys. After the game is over, we're friends with boys. But once, once the game start, that friendship ain't, uh-uh.

• 36:57Ryan Clark?

  Speaking of that, that friendship though, Patrick, and I know it's been fun. When you're so close to someone, in the way you're close to Dikembe, and you lose him. You know, as we get older, you know, we talk about it all the time. You, you experience those things. How difficult was that time for you and your Georgetown family?

• 37:16Speaker 02

  It was very difficult. You know, it was difficult seeing him the way that, you know, he had lost his motor, all the motor skills. He had lost the motor skills while he was battling the tumor. And, you know, Alonzo and I, once a month, we'll, we'll get together and we'll all, we'll fly, fly to Atlanta to go, you know, make sure we, you know, visit with him, talk to him, spend the day just with him and his wife and just, just, just sit down and, you know, reminisce and talk and smack. And when, when he died, I, Alonzo was supposed to fly to Atlanta that day to go see him. I couldn't go for, I don't even remember why, why I couldn't go, but Alonzo was going.

• 37:59Speaker 02

  And that's when we got the call that he had passed.

• 38:04Speaker 02

  He was a brother, he was a friend. He brought me to Africa. You know, he's definitely missed. It's funny, I was, I had a dream about him the other day. I had to text his wife, I'm like, "Happy Easter", but man, I had a dream about Big Fella last night. She's like, "Well, he came to visit you and I hope that, you know, he blessed you with some, some good words", you know, so, but, uh, he's missed.

• 38:32Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, man, you know, I, I, we, we deal with it and, you know, Chan's talked about losing teammates, Fred has, I have as well. You know, those bonds that you build through this game, like, truly change you for the rest of your life. You know, you became not only the best player for the Knicks, but the leader of the team. When John Starks, who became the heart of what the Knicks were, how hard he played, how tough he plays, I think he goes 2-for-18 in game 7. Like, what are those conversations as a friend, as a teammate, as a leader, when you're hurting too, because you don't get it done, but you also know what he's dealing with,

• 39:17Ryan Clark?

  because you've had nights like that, but not in the biggest moment?

• 39:20Speaker 02

  People always talk about that, they bring it up to me. And as a player, as a scorer, everybody who plays, you know, you always think the next one going in. You can ask Steph, he's one of the greatest shooters to, to ever play. And every time he shoots the ball, I don't care if he was 0-for-10, he think the next one going in. So, that's how I equated for John. He was rolling that series. And yes, he was, he wasn't making, making his shots, but he thought that the next one go. Like every scorer, like everybody who played, they think that the next one is gonna go in.

• 40:02Speaker 02

  So, I can't sit there and fault him, I can't sit there and judge him. And I want the ball anyway, I'm like, "Throw me the ball", but I don't, I do not fault him in, in one bit, because I know if this, if the situation was reversed, I'm gonna shoot it, I'm gonna shoot it. You know, that's, that's just how it, you know, how the game is. And to me, if you don't believe in yourself...

• 40:29Speaker 02

  That the next one is gonna go and I won't play with you. Because you can't have doubt, you know, when the time comes. You gotta step up and try to get it done. It may not, it may not work out in your favor, which it didn't, but you still gotta step up there and try to get it done.

• 40:45Fred Taylor?

  I remember the night we filmed Shaq in Atlanta. I remember seeing Dikembe and Zo at dinner at STK, just in the corner by himself chopping it up, man. It just kinda came to my head.

• 40:57Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends, like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser-Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 41:26Fred Taylor?

  Talking about legacy, because you're an amazing player, man. One of the best ever to do it. But then you have this conversation, just lazy people, I guess, when they talk about ring culture. And ring culture doesn't necessarily validate someone who is as elite as you. Do you think people have become more lazy in that conversation when it comes time to judging people's careers?

• 41:49Speaker 02

  Well, I'm not gonna say people have become lazy. I think that, you know, all of us who, I don't care which sport you play.

• 41:58Speaker 02

  Everybody, when you, at the beginning of the year, does have a goal. My goal is to, you know, win a championship. And growing up in Boston, all they talk about is Bill Russell and his 11 rings. So I'm like, shit, I'm gonna get me 11 rings, like Bill. You know, and then you realize, and then in college, I got, I get to the finals three years. So I'm like, you know, in the NBA, yeah, I'm gonna get me a ring. But then you get there, you realize how difficult it is to get a ring or to even get there. I was fortunate to get there twice. The second time we got there, I was hurt, I couldn't, I tore my Achilles and I couldn't play.

• 42:41Speaker 02

  But I don't see the fact that I don't have a ring, or Charles don't have a ring, or all the other great players who play this game, I don't have a ring. I don't see that diminishing what they have accomplished. I think that all of us have done something special to be able to get to where we've gotten, but it just wasn't in the cards for us to get that elusive championship.

• 43:04Fred Taylor?

  I agree with you because I was in the trenches, right? You know, we sort of tease, RC has this thing sometimes when certain guests come on where he cut the room. But I know, Channing know, RC knows, that it's just lighthearted fun. It's cool because it doesn't minimize the work that we put in. You know, time in, time out, from practice to sweat, you know, all that different stuff. And I like you, I believe that what you've done in the trenches should validate your career more so than, you know, somebody who hasn't been in those same, in that same position, just having a casual conversation. So I get it, so that's what I mean when I say lazy because they don't dig deep. I think Patrick's a little different than y'all too.

• 43:43Channing Crowder?

  A hundred percent.

• 43:44Fred Taylor?

  I see, I see what you're doing here, you know what I mean? I know. I'm just messing with you. I will definitely.

• 43:52Speaker 02

  Man, he was better than you.

• 43:56Fred Taylor?

  It's not me versus Pat.

• 43:58Speaker 02

  Don't lift those.

• 44:00Fred Taylor?

  Hey, Chan, I felt what he was trying to do.

• 44:03Speaker 02

  I see the approach, yeah.

• 44:04Fred Taylor?

  I get it. This is what I deal with and I respect it because these my guys. But no, look, it was an extreme honor to. You were him?

• 44:13Channing Crowder?

  Y'all had the same.

• 44:15Fred Taylor?

  Because not me getting the ring, because people talk about that conversation, and you mentioned Bill Russell, 11.

• 44:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 44:21Fred Taylor?

  But if you're gonna say, what's the GOAT standard? Is it championship? Is it wins? Is it points? What is it?

• 44:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 44:27Fred Taylor?

  Like, have the full conversation and let that be that. So, yeah, I'm not Pat.

• 44:33Channing Crowder?

  To that point though, because you was a monster. Did the Knicks let you down? Because they could have put more around you to go out and whoop MJ and them motherfuckers. Like, did they let you down to be a Hall of Famer and not have a ring? Somebody had to do something wrong, bro.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  When you're in it, see, a lot of these guys now, they got that business sense. You're like, look, I got. At one point, I was gonna leave New York to go team up with Chris Mullin, Tim Hardaway and Mitch.

• 45:00Ryan Clark?

  One T O C.

• 45:01Speaker 02

  At one point, I was gonna leave and go team up with them, but it didn't happen.

• 45:05Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 45:06Speaker 02

  And, you know, maybe they could have brought more, more pieces, but you know, when you're in it, you know, I wasn't thinking of it.

• 45:14Ryan Clark?

  Very good.

• 45:14Speaker 02

  I'm thinking about whoever I got with me, we going, we going to war. You know, I got Mace, I got Oak, I got John, you know, Allen came later, Spree came later. But, you know, Derek Harper, we, we, you know, we were thinking that we, we had an opportunity to get it done, and we just didn't, it just didn't happen.

• 45:33Ryan Clark?

  Also too, though, like, you took the Bulls to seven. You took Hakeem to seven. We're talking about teams that were all-time great teams with all-time great players. Like, you guys were there, were good enough. Like you said, sometimes it just doesn't work out. And we're talking about people without rings. Reggie Miller also doesn't have a ring.

• 45:53Speaker 02

  You know, it's funny because, you know, we talk about it, myself and Jeff Van Gundy talk about it, you know, all the time, having home court advantage in the playoffs. So, if we had home court advantage, it could have swung it differently. So, we went, we go out to Houston, we win, we lose the first, won the second, come back home, Sam Cassell hit a huge three to help them win the third. We won the fourth, we won the, I think we won the next two when we went back out to Houston, yeah, to play them. And, you know, big fella went to work and we just, we just.

• 46:31Ryan Clark?

  It was all that. It was all this.

• 46:34Speaker 02

  He didn't get that dream shake.

• 46:36Ryan Clark?

  It was all that.

• 46:37Speaker 02

  That dream shake was going, that dream shake was going.

• 46:40Ryan Clark?

  Were y'all pissed off at Spike when Reggie scored 13 points in like, what, what Reggie scored eight seconds?

• 46:45Speaker 02

  But Spike ain't had nothing to do with it. Spike ain't on the floor?

• 46:49Ryan Clark?

  Reggie hit y'all with the...

• 46:51Speaker 02

  Spike ain't on the floor. Now, look, so even that, okay.

• 46:54Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 46:55Speaker 02

  Reggie had a big series, you know, we had a 30 for 30, Reggie Miller and whatever the hell they call it. They only beat us once. Once. One series they beat us.

• 47:04Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 47:05Speaker 02

  He was bawling at the end of that game, and we still had an opportunity to win. I missed, I got a free throw rebound and missed it. Not the layup, but I got a free throw rebound and missed it. Spike ain't had nothing. Spike is a, I mean, he's a diehard fan. We want fans like that. You know, I remember when I first got to New York, Spike was all the way up top in Madison Square Garden. That's where his seats were, all the way up top. And he did, he did do the right thing, and the next thing I know...

• 47:32Ryan Clark?

  Now he on the floor.

• 47:32Speaker 02

  He's on the floor. I said, Spike, you sure done came a long way. You sure came a long way, but no, we want to have, I mean, there's one thing about New York. We got some diehard fans. And, you know, I'm back now with the Knicks, and I look, uh, last, last year, I'm at the playoff game, myself, Larry Johnson, John Stott, we all sitting there at courtside.

• 47:56Speaker 02

  And I'm looking around the, the arena, and the atmosphere, I'm like, Larry was like, man, remind you of when, remind you of when we were playing, right? I'm saying, yes, yes, the energy, the atmosphere, everything is back, and, you know, they've been waiting for it, and, and we got it.

• 48:14Ryan Clark?

  How do you feel about this team being an ambassador for the team when you look at, I mean, basically like Villanova plus Cat? You know what I mean?

• 48:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, I don't like the Villanova part, but no, I don't like the Villanova. I tell, I tell Jalen, I say, look, man. I mean, I tell all them, I said, man, I don't, you know, the Villanova part, but no, you know, I love them. I love Jalen. I've been knowing him from when he was a little kid. And coming in the locker room, um, you know, I tell his dad, I don't know what you did, but you did an outstanding job of, of, you know, getting this kid to be great, because he is great. And then Cat and the rest of the team, you know, as a former player, as, you know, a consultant and ambassador, whatever the role you want to call it. You know, I enjoy going back, and I enjoy sitting there and watching them compete.

• 49:02Speaker 02

  You know, I tell Jalen's dad, I say, look, I wish I could have played with him, because I watched the things that he could do. And, you know, I think both of us would have made each other great.

• 49:12Ryan Clark?

  I love that.

• 49:13Channing Crowder?

  How you feel about the big men now? You bring up Cat. Wimby, Jokic, them do, you got the seven footers out there playing around on the perimeter and all. Well, I grew up watching you, watching Hakeem, watching Shaq, watching the big boys go down there and work that paint. They, I don't even think they know how to throw their back into nobody no more.

• 49:34Speaker 02

  But you know, the funny thing is that we wanted to do that. We wanted to do that and they wouldn't let us. I remember when I first got to the league and I was shooting a lot of turnaround jump shots and they were, they were so mad. You need to get in there and dunk it, dude. I'm like, you see who I'm playing with? If I can't, if I can't shoot, I ain't gonna be at the school. But I think that everybody, it would change or come back, but those guys, they're, they're skilled. Everybody wants, every big wants, it's just like every rapper or every musician want to be an athlete. Every athlete want to be a musician.

• 50:10Channing Crowder?

  That's real.

• 50:11Speaker 02

  All us bigs, we all want to be able to dance like, like the gods. So I think that, you know, a lot of them, like Wimby, he is, he is special. He is special. Jokic, he's special. They all can do all the things that we're talking about and they can do it at a high level. So all you can do is just sit back and watch and admire.

• 50:29Channing Crowder?

  If they let you Wimby because you a Wimby?

• 50:31Speaker 02

  I would have tried. Jeff, Jeff and Gunny would have been, him and Pat were looking at me like, nah, big fella. You got five turnovers now. You got five turnovers. Get the rock up. Like Big John told me, get your ass in the block. How, how do you defend a Wimby though?

• 50:49Speaker 02

  Hey, look, you know, I coached Yao Ming. Yao Ming was his size. Seven four, seven five, but y'all didn't have the skills and all the things that, that, that Wimby has. Different game. So, you know, you just try to be as physical as you can with him legally, legally. Right. Just try to body him up and try to push him out. Now, he wants to be out there. So he, he's not gonna mind being out there, but you just gotta be physical with him.

• 51:13Ryan Clark?

  You know, you look at Boston, Detroit, you got OKC, obviously San Antonio. The Knicks are right there. When you go think about heading into these playoffs, what are the teams you think have the inside track to hoisting that trophy at the end of the season?

• 51:32Speaker 02

  Whoever goes on that run at the right time, you, you know, everybody looks at Boston, you know, with Tatum being back. You look at OKC, they've been playing great, and San Antonio, but one injury.

• 51:44Speaker 02

  Or one team playing, getting hot at the right time, anything, anything is possible. But, you know, this is, the NBA is different than, than college, where college, you know, is just one game.

• 51:58Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 51:58Speaker 02

  So you got to be able to, you have to be able to sustain your run, you know, for seven games, hopefully.

• 52:05Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, so.

• 52:06Speaker 02

  Or unless you that good that you gonna go, you gonna sweep them.

• 52:08Ryan Clark?

  Ain't gonna sweep everybody.

• 52:09Speaker 02

  Right.

• 52:10Ryan Clark?

  So this is my last question, this is really important question to me, right? You always talk about what you did to other centers, right? Because you was like, I ain't had to play Mike, right? I ain't had to guard Mike. But you did have to play a very good Shaq, a very good David Robinson.

• 52:25Speaker 02

  Right, David was in the.

• 52:26Ryan Clark?

  Very good Akeem Olajuwon.

• 52:27Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 52:29Ryan Clark?

  Who was the most difficult to play against of those three?

• 52:33Speaker 02

  I'm gonna say Akeem. You know, Shaq was great. I mean, Shaq was willed in our era. People don't realize how athletic Shaq was.

• 52:42Ryan Clark?

  Orlando Shaq?

• 52:43Speaker 02

  Yes. He was, he was at seven one, three hundred pounds, athletic as hell.

• 52:50Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 52:50Speaker 02

  Can run, can handle, he can handle like Wimby and them, can handle. Then, you know, you got David, David, you know, his athleticism was just, was up and down. And, you know, Akeem was just, he had the dream shake, he had the footwork, he was my size, he could shoot. So I, you know, I'mma put him above, above them, but when you play them, make sure you get your, make sure you get your rest.

• 53:16Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, to bring it up.

• 53:17Speaker 02

  Either one of them, make sure you get your rest the night before, because, you know, and I think that's how we live, whoever you playing, whichever one you playing against, you gonna, they gonna bring their A game, so you gotta bring your A game.

• 53:27Ryan Clark?

  Always felt like you could have did better if you ain't wear them, them big old knee pads.

• 53:30Speaker 02

  Oh, no, I love my knee, but shoot, man, look, man, that kept my knees right, baby. Kept my knees right.

• 53:36Ryan Clark?

  I used to be so mad at the house. I used to like, man, why Patrick, you had got these big volleyball knee pads on?

• 53:42Speaker 02

  You knew it looked ugly, though. Nah, man, that was style.

• 53:45Ryan Clark?

  That wasn't sweet.

• 53:46Speaker 02

  That was style.

• 53:47Ryan Clark?

  That was not sweet.

• 53:48Speaker 02

  Hey, look.

• 53:48Ryan Clark?

  That was sweet, them big ass blue knee pads.

• 53:50Speaker 02

  I've been, I've been wearing knee, no, it was white, it was white, not blue.

• 53:53Ryan Clark?

  It was a white one, yeah.

• 53:55Speaker 02

  I've been wearing knee pads since, since high school. They told me it was gonna protect my knees when I bump knees and all that stuff, and you gonna bump knees.

• 54:03Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 54:03Speaker 02

  So it protected me a lot of times. So, you know, I'm gonna wear them bad boys. And if I was playing right now. I'll be wearing them.

• 54:09Channing Crowder?

  No.

• 54:11Speaker 02

  I'm gonna be wearing them and dropping 50.

• 54:14Channing Crowder?

  You telling me Jalen Brunson is not letting you wear them knee pads?

• 54:19Speaker 02

  He would have had a choice.

• 54:22Speaker 02

  One of the first things he said, one thing, everybody know me, I may be humble and other, but I'm stubborn as hell. You know, I'm stubborn, you know, I'm opinionated, whatever I feel, and if I believe it, I'm gonna fight your ass to the end. Jeff Van Gundy, you know, he coaching me, he's like, no Patrick, you need to be on this. I said Jeff, time and touches, give me time, give me touches, I don't care which block you put me on, it's gonna get done. So, I'm a Leo, I'm a Jamaican.

• 54:51Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, quickly, you don't regret the knee pads, is there any regrets? Cause I asked you about staying in New York, and you said they brought people in, y'all were trying, y'all just had some dogs out there. You have any regrets about your career and your decision?

• 55:04Speaker 02

  My only regret is leaving, leaving when I did. You know, I played 15 years in New York, and you know, you hear the team is better off without him, or little rumbles from maybe some of your teammates, ah, you know, he getting too much touches, too much time. So, you know, I just got tired, you know, you just got, you got, you know, I got worn down with it. I'm like, man, it's 15 years, I'm still hearing the same bullshit. I just got tired, and I'm like, you know what, man, it's time to go. You know, Seattle came, they gave them a great offer, but that's the only regret that I have. I see Carl stayed and finished his career there at Utah Stock.

• 55:47Speaker 02

  You know, I see guys who finished their career with the same team, and that's the only regret. And, you know, of course, not winning it, you know, not being able to bring a title to New York.

• 56:03Fred Taylor?

  Patrick, you talking about pivoting right there in that moment, what's been your biggest pivot in life? That's that one moment you can look back on and say, because this happened to me or for me, I am who I am today.

• 56:14Speaker 02

  I think that coach telling me I ain't gonna be shit.

• 56:18Speaker 02

  You know, that coach telling me I ain't gonna be shit, so, you know.

• 56:23Speaker 02

  You know, I realize, and when I talk to kids, that's one of the things I talk to them about is that no matter what you choose to do, be it an athlete, a lawyer, a doctor, whatever, if you have the passion to do it and the skill set to do it, don't listen to what other people say. Just go out and enjoy doing what you're doing, and hopefully you can achieve what, you know, I was able to achieve.

• 56:47Ryan Clark?

  This was, man, this was so much fun.

• 56:50Speaker 02

  No, I mean, like I said, you know, I've been, I've been watching y'all, and I have been admiring, I love the connection.

• 56:57Ryan Clark?

  Thank you.

• 56:57Speaker 02

  I love the connection that you guys have, and it makes me feel good to see people like us doing our thing.

• 57:03Ryan Clark?

  Man, thank you. See what I gotta deal with.

• 57:05Speaker 02

  I know, I know. Hey, look, when I'm with my boys, that's, we do the, they do the same thing.

• 57:11Ryan Clark?

  Hey, that's the locker room. Yeah. This is the locker room. Yeah. From, like honestly, from all three of us though, you know, the coolest part about this job is having opportunities to sit with people you've always admired. Yeah. And who inspired you at times to continue to work and continue to reach for your dreams. And honestly, for me, man, to be able to walk up to you, shake your hand and be like, "Hey, would you come on our show and be a guest?" And for you to be like, "Absolutely," meant the world to me, man. And for you to show up the way you did, albeit late.

• 57:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was late, don't lie. I was late, I was late.

• 57:43Ryan Clark?

  And your memory's great. I am very grateful. Your memory is good. His memory is great, yeah. His memory's solid. My dog said he was working on social security, man.

• 57:51Speaker 02

  Hey, look, my man had to get it, he looked right. I'm 63, I'm glad.

• 57:56Speaker 02

  I'm blessed.