The Most Decorated Winter Olympian Ever: Johannes Klæbo On Training, Mindset & Reinventing His Sport

Johannes Klæbo is a Norwegian cross-country skier, an 11-time Olympic gold medalist, and the most decorated Winter Olympian in history. Johannes caught the world's attention with his signature sprinting on skis, sweeping his events and winning the most gold medals ever at a single Winter Olympics. But it wasn't always so; this conversation explores how he got from the middle of the pack at age 14 to the top of Olympic history. We get into Norway's philosophy of raising top athletes, the training mishap that turned into his uphill technique, his 32-hour training week, and his competitive spirit that never switches off. He also tells me the one thing he changed before the Olympics, and it has nothing to do with training. At only 29 Johannes is already one of the greatest Olympians of all time, and it was an honor to have this conversation with him. Enjoy. Show notes + MORE Watch on YouTube Newsletter Sign-Up Today’s Sponsors: Rivian: Electric vehicles that keep the world adventurous forever👉🏼https://stories.rivian.com/richroll WHOOP: Join now and get one month free👉🏼https://www.join.whoop.com/Roll Go Brewing: Use the code Rich Roll for 15% OFF👉🏼https://www.gobrewing.com Check out all of the amazing discounts from our Sponsors👉🏼https://www.richroll.com/sponsors Find out more about Voicing Change Media at https://www.voicingchange.media and follow us @voicingchange Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 1:07Rich Roll?

  The amount of energy expenditure that is required for you to do that has to be insane.

• 1:14Speaker 01

  I saw the video myself and I was like, that looks pretty good.

• 1:20Rich Roll?

  Thirteen-time Olympic medalist, 11 gold medals, the most gold medals won at a single Winter Olympics, most career gold medals won by any Winter Olympic athlete. Like, it's insane what you've accomplished.

• 1:35Speaker 01

  I always had this mindset where I hate to lose. The feeling of winning a race is amazing. The feeling of becoming second is so much worse. It is a mental game. You're saying that, okay, we just go over the next hill, the next hill, and then you just continue to trick your head to just move a little bit more.

• 1:55Rich Roll?

  So 1,000 hours of training, what does it look like?

• 1:58Speaker 01

  Two and a half hours of...

• 2:01Rich Roll?

  Oh, really? Oh, interesting.

• 2:05Rich Roll?

  You're very much known as somebody who's modernized your sport and brought it into 2026, which in the United States is, you know, it's a relatively obscure sport. I would say that most people had almost, at least in the United States, like, had very little connection with this sport until they saw you essentially, you know, running uphill in your skis at 10.3 miles an hour at sub-six-minute pace. And just, minds were blown when that viral moment occurred. And that has probably done more for the, um, uh, just awareness of the sport than anybody has done in the last 30 or 40 years.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  That's probably true. And I think, I think it's good that people can actually see when you actually put in numbers on it, you know? When you see, like, there is, because we are having kilometers per hour, but then you see, like, okay, it's 18.2 kilometers per hour in the uphills. You see the incline, just for people to understand and get to, get to know it a little bit more. Because then it's easier for people to, to really understand how, how fast we are running those hills. Um, but yeah, I, it was a cool moment to see that so many people were paying attention to what we were doing. I mean, cross-country skiing has always been a really small sport, but it's, it's getting bigger.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  And I think the, what has been my goal is to, to tell people and try to show people how healthy of a sport cross-country skiing is because you're using your legs, you're using your upper body, and then you're also working your endurance. And those three things you're working out at the same time when you're out there. And it also is really, a really low risk of getting injured, like, in terms of when you're running or biking or whatever. It's like, there is not that many sports that are doing upper body, lower body, and endurance at the same time. And, uh...

• 4:07Rich Roll?

  Swimming. Swimming would probably be the closest comp.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  That's probably the closest one. And I think those two sports, or in general, a sport like that, is really efficient for people to stay in good shape and staying healthy. And what we see over the last years is that, uh, people are paying more attention to their health, trying to, uh, do the right workouts, uh, eat the right things, and, and stuff like that, which I, which I think is really cool, because I think we are in a, it's a more healthier way we are, where we're doing things these days than we did before.

• 4:45Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. There's, uh, this sense within the endurance community, like, if you're an endurance athlete, like, it's one thing to be a runner or triathlete, you know, one of these, you know, kind of sports. But the sport that commands the most amount of respect among the people who are steeped in endurance is cross-country skiing. They're like, that's where the fittest people in the world are. Like, the, it's a different breed. Like, the degree of endurance and strength and agility that is demanded in order to be at an elite level in this sport is incomparable to any other endurance pursuit. Like, it is like the, you know, kind of apex predator of fitness.

• 5:29Rich Roll?

  And I wanna, I want you to, like, kind of explain, like, the rigor of this sport that you dominate. Like, what goes into being able to compete at the highest level in cross-country skiing?

• 5:45Speaker 01

  Oh, I think there is, uh, there is a lot of factors that are, are important. But, uh, um, one thing is, you definitely need to have, like, the VO2 max, like, the VO2 is, is important, because you are, uh, we're doing so many up and downs in terms of, like, a race, it's, say it's a 10K race, it's basically 22 minutes of full speed from start to finish. It's a lot of uphills, a lot of downhills, but it's, at the end, the VO2 max needs to be so high that you're able to, uh, if you're gonna be, perform at the highest level. And then, another aspect of it is, is the technical part.

• 6:30Speaker 01

  Um, and I think that is, uh, important in a lot of sports. And I think it is as important in, in cross-country skiing as it is in so many other sports, because it's just, uh, it's important to have the right technique in the right type of terrain, the right type of hills, you know? Because if the hill is 5% incline, you need to use this kind of technique. But when it's 6, it's a little bit different. And that changes from seconds to seconds. So it's, it's really a hard balance to find the right, um, technical part, every single part of the, of the track.

• 7:14Speaker 01

  And then I also think that just being well, uh, just having the endurance to, to be able to race over, in, in the cold air, but also, like, like we do, it's a race weekend for me can be everything from 1.3 kilometers, which is, uh, yeah, I don't know how long it is in miles, but it's probably just less than a mile.

• 7:39Rich Roll?

  About a mile or just under, yeah.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  Just under a mile. And then we have, like, the 50K, which is, like, two hours of racing. And the other, the sprint is just below three minutes.

• 7:51Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  And then you have, like, everything in between there, meaning you need to have those fast muscle fibers to be able to, to perform in the sprint. But you also need the endurance to be able to perform on a 50K. And I think that's kind of the beauty of the sport, which, for me, has always been, been the trigger to be able to do everything.

• 8:12Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So for people that are unfamiliar with Johannes, let's just catch people up here. Thirteen-time Olympic medalist, 11 gold medals, uh, you hold the record for the most gold medals won at a single Winter Olympics, most career gold medals won by any Winter Olympic athlete. Like, it's insane what you've accomplished. And I think just as equally impressive is the fact that you're winning at the sprint distances all the way up to the 50K. So the equivalent would be somebody who's winning the gold medal in the 400 meters on the track, and then also, like, winning the marathon. Like, it's just, it's, it's inconceivable.

• 8:51Rich Roll?

  So how are you able to have such agility and dexterity to be able to be dominant in both the sprint distances and the longest races available, all the way up to the 50K? I mean, it's just mind-blowing.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I think, I think it has been, it's been a goal of mine since I was, was really young. And, uh, my granddad is my, my coach, and he's 82 years old now. Uh, and he has always been my coach since I was, yeah, he was the one picking me up from school, bringing me to training, to practice. Uh, we were, in the weekends, we went out for, for skiing sessions, uh, every single weekend, uh, during the winter. So, so he has been a huge part of, of my success. But, um, I would say that, I think one of the key factors is that we, we started with the goal of winning a sprint race.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  That was where we started, because we saw that, when I was 18, 19 years old, we figured out that, okay, that's, it's quicker for me to become good in sprint than it is to become good in distance skiing. So we decided to put some extra focus on the sprint part when I was, uh, 17, 18, 19 years old. And when I then became a senior and was able to, to race the World Cup, uh, we were able to perform in sprint from, from day one. And when we were able to train 1,000 hours, which is kind of the limit for us, it's, then we decided that we're gonna... Start shifting the focus from sprint to distance.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  And that was about when I was twenty, so we slowly changed the focus a little bit more from sprint specific training to more uh distance training. So we added altitude training, we added uh a lot more longer sessions like a a normal sprint week for me would be like previous was probably say between eighteen and twenty-one hours. Now we are doing more like if we're doing twenty-one hours, it's a low week.

• 11:03Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  Now we are more closer to between twenty-five and thirty, more or less averaging that the whole year, so. We have kind of, and we have shift the focus in terms of just having more longer sessions, three-hour sessions, more or less every day, just to build that endurance over time, and I think that's has showed that it is actually possible to to keep the sprints part, but we also have developed the the distant part, so we now are able to to do both, more or less.

• 11:36Rich Roll?

  It's smart, it's patient, and it's uh the right way to do it, because you can, you can, if you, if you're fast and you have your technique down with speed, you can always build endurance over time, and you have plenty of years to do that, and by taking your time and incremental incrementally, like moving up and extending those distances while maintaining your speed, like that's, that's a really smart way to do it. You can't go, you can't do it the other way around. You can't specialize in the long distance and then expect to develop speed later.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  No, because I think uh what we have seen over the years is that you're getting slower by by the age, you know, and uh that was important for me to to use that momentum I had when I was eighteen, nineteen years years old, build the right technique, build the right strength to be able to be quick and fast, and then shifted a little bit more endurance, but then maintain the sprint parts more than doing the the opposite way, because then you're, it is, it is hard to to work against that you're actually becoming uh older, and I think uh think for me that's, so now I feel like these days I'm need to have a little bit more focus on the sprint parts, just

• 12:54Speaker 01

  a few sessions here and there where I actually need to maintain it a little bit better, because you can feel like you're getting a little bit slower by just getting older and older and older, so uh we're still not uh in that time where we are too old to do sprints, but it's it's a shift kind of coming around thirty-two, thirty-three years old, where you see that that is actually really difficult.

• 13:20Rich Roll?

  I'm sure there are other athletes uh in your sport that have approached it in this same way, so this still doesn't explain why you're so much better.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  No.

• 13:32Rich Roll?

  Like, it's a rational approach, like a a really good, like, long-term approach to excellence in your sport, but I'm sure there are other people that are doing the same thing.

• 13:42Speaker 01

  That's probably true, but I.

• 13:44Rich Roll?

  So I'm gonna get you, I I want you to articulate, I want you to say out loud, the quiet part out loud. Why are you so much better? What is the differentiator?

• 13:54Speaker 01

  I mean, it's, it's hard to, it is really hard to say, because I feel like there is so many athletes that are that are doing the right things, but um I feel like I've always had this, I always had this mindset where I uh I hate to lose that much. I mean, I feel like it's almost the feeling of winning a race is amazing, but it's just the feeling of becoming second is so much worse.

• 14:23Rich Roll?

  Is it because you feel like you're letting yourself down? Is it in an internal motivation, or is it because you lost to somebody else?

• 14:31Speaker 01

  No, it is, I always like to to say that I'm I'm racing against myself. It's always been about me and what I can do against my own kind of head, because I feel like when I'm racing a fifty K, it's, it it is a mental game, you know, it is, it is about yourself and how you are try or how you're able to to trick your head in the way that you're saying that, okay, we just go over the the next hill, the next hill, and then you just continue to trick your head to just move a little bit more, and at the end you're crossing the finish line, and then you kind of, if you did everything right, you're crossing it first, but if you, if you are not able to

• 15:16Speaker 01

  to trick your head enough, that's like what I say to myself, I feel like that's where I where I let myself down, so for me, it's always been about myself and how how I can play play this game against myself, and that's kind of the, for me, that's always what has uh has been, has been the trigger.

• 15:35Rich Roll?

  You hate to lose more than anybody else. This is your, this is your answer.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  And and it is like that, it always been like that. I mean, it was like that when I was playing soccer as well as a young kid, you know, um it was that when I, it's almost like that when we are in the cabin with my family just playing cards, you know, I just have that when it is a competition, when there is something on the line, I feel like I just love to.

• 16:05Rich Roll?

  Life or death.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  It seems like that.

• 16:09Rich Roll?

  What's interesting about that is is it's not the story most people might imagine. Yes, your grandfather has always been there. Yes, your mother was also a skier. Your grandfather gave you your first pair of skis when you were like two years old, but it wasn't like now I'm on the skis and it's just this clean path to excellence without obstacles. I mean, you were pretty average uh in your younger years, like I read up on, you know, the experience of you being in sports at around age fourteen, and you were much smaller than everybody. There was no, there was a, there was a sense that you had some athletic gifts, but you were pretty average in every regard.

• 16:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I started out quite well when I was really young, and then uh in Norway, we don't have like the we don't take the time on the kids when they are racing until they are at least ten, I think.

• 17:06Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:07Speaker 01

  So, but because you're starting going to practices, practices when you are like five, six years old, that was when I started as well, and then from five, six until ten, you we don't take, we take the time, but you don't, you put it in a random, random numbers, you don't kind of have the one standing on the first of the result list is not the one who was winning the race. That was kind of randomized every single weekend when you, when you were racing, and I think uh at that time, I was always, I was always looking at the time, like how, how did I do compared to my friends and everyone else, but uh when, when we became fourteen, I was like, people started growing up a little bit more. I was still really

• 17:52Speaker 01

  really small, and uh then it was like yeah, double polling against a man, it was a kid against a man, you know, it was huge differences, so I was in just my local area where we were probably like forty people racing, and I was probably just around twenty.

• 18:15Rich Roll?

  Uh-huh.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  Just in the middle.

• 18:16Rich Roll?

  How did that work with your hatred of losing?

• 18:19Speaker 01

  No, it was, it was terrible. My mom always told me every single week, like, okay, we need to find something else to do, like this is not gonna, can continue, but then we um I think I, together with my granddad, we find a way to, or we find a way to to work, or we're looking into what we could do, what can I do to become better, uh because at some point I will start growing up a little bit more. So we decided, okay, we're gonna focus on the things we we can do something about, which is my technique.

• 18:52Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  Uh I can't do anything about that I'm small, so we just need to wait, and that was when we started really focusing on the technique, like how are we double polling, um the running, like all the things we are doing these days, and the balance on the skis has been the key factor to to my success, I would say, and that was something we developed from I was fourteen until I was seventeen, when I finally started growing a little bit more.

• 19:25Rich Roll?

  At fifteen, you announced that you were gonna be the best, or you had set this goal for yourself, even though at age fourteen, there was no indication that that was a possibility. But there's some interesting things that occurred around that time. First of all, it's set against this cultural backdrop that much has been written about and talked about recently. Like, what's going on with Norway? Like Norway is just having this moment. Like, look at the exceptionalism that we're seeing at the Olympic level. We saw it in the World Cup. Over the past couple of weeks, we've got you, we've got Ingabritsen, we've got Gustav and Christian in triathlon.

• 20:04Rich Roll?

  Like, we're just seeing just such an outsized series of exceptional athletes like yourself that is hard for the American brain to make sense of, like, how is this happening? And then when you understand, like, oh, they don't keep score until they're thirteen, they have this whole different culture around winning and losing. And now, like, that's become almost a test case for parents in youth sports, like, how to do this correctly, which I think is super interesting. And within that, you had a coach who came up with a whole set of challenges for people like yourself, the Runes Challenge. Could you talk a little bit about that? Because I think it's super interesting.

• 20:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, that is interesting. Yeah, so my coach at that time was, his goal was to have as many of the kids participate in as many of the practices as possible. That was kind of his overall goal. And what it then started was like a challenge where you got points every time you was at a practice. So then you got like one point. And then on every single practice, we had like some sort of relays. It was, it could be, we were picked in four, five different teams, and then we had a relay.

• 21:30Speaker 01

  But it was not to do back and forth, the fastest, like, regular skiing. It was with one ski. Okay, okay, we took off the one ski. It was with one pole, it was without poles. It was like so many different ways of doing that kind of relay. And then you got points based on how you perform on that relay. And at the end of the season, when we were done, we kind of had like a pursuit where we were starting based on how many points you had collected over the last year. And then you can see, like, okay, people that have been at many practices,

• 22:14Speaker 01

  they had an advantage on the pursuit. So for me, that was like, it was a goal to do well on the Runes Challenge at the end of the season. Because like, that was, gave you a picture of that you have been taking part a lot of times, but you have also been showing up, you know? And I feel like, for me, and when I look back at it, it was a perfect way of keeping as many of the kids to join the practices as possible. And I think that's kind of the culture in Norway. And like you said, the discussions these days has been, what are we doing in Norway?

• 22:58Speaker 01

  Because we have so, I mean, we are a small country in terms, we have 5.5 million people. It's pretty small in like, in the big world. But we're still having so many top athletes in so many different sports. And I think what we are doing is that the overall goal for so many of the local clubs is that we want to have, and we want the kids to try out as many sports as possible. And we want to keep them there for as long as possible. And then when we are becoming fifteen, sixteen, seventeen years old, and we are gonna make the decision if we're gonna do high school towards sports,

• 23:42Speaker 01

  or we're gonna do it towards other things. That's kind of when people start making their decisions. But until they are fifteen, we try to keep as many as long as possible. And I feel like that has been a key success and a key factor of the culture in Norway. And I think that has worked out really well. But I also think that when you speak to so many of the top athletes, everyone has been like, they really appreciate it these days, like, looking back how cool the practices actually was. Because we were so many kids every single time.

• 24:23Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and creating a culture where it's all about making sure that the kids are plugged in, they're connected to the sport, and that they're falling in love with it so that they can have a lifelong relationship with some kind of movement, rather than a negative memory of like, never getting picked. And, you know, forget that, I'm moving in another direction, like, sports is not for me.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think just having the opportunity to try different sports. You know, a lot of Norwegians are doing cross-country skiing, at least from when they are six until they are ten.

• 25:01Rich Roll?

  Yeah, there's like a thousand ski clubs in Norway, right?

• 25:05Speaker 01

  It's so many. Just around my place where I stay, it's from my place to Grommossen, where we had the world championship, is five kilometers. It's three clubs just from on those five kilometers. So it's a lot. But like I said, I think it's, a lot of people are trying cross-country skiing for just four years. But then they have developed the capability to actually, when they're getting older, they will remember how it is to ski. So they can, when they are getting older, they can use skiing as a training form. You know, they can go in the cabins during the winter, and then they go skiing in the weekends as a part of their staying in shape program.

• 25:49Speaker 01

  And they're trying soccer, they're trying track and field, they're trying cycling. There is like, the goal is for the kids to try out as many sports as possible. Because then you're, the parents are then like trying to let the kids decide, is there soccer, or is it cross-country skiing, or is it track and field you think is the most fun, you know? And based on fun, that's where you make the decision, more than just being put on like a sport, and you get kind of forced a little bit more to just do it for some years, rather than just trying out different things, and then you can decide for yourself.

• 26:29Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it is the counterintuitive path to excellence, though, over time. Because there is this idea that if you want to be the best, you're gonna have to specialize early. And the example that Norway is setting is that that's an incorrect way of thinking about it. Have you read David Epstein's book, Range?

• 26:50Speaker 01

  No.

• 26:50Rich Roll?

  So it's all about this. I'm gonna send you this book. Basically, we have this idea that the best people in the world specialized early. And they just, they were just focused, and they put in their 10,000 hours. And that's, that's the only way you're gonna get to the top. And there are examples of that. You have the Tiger Woods and, you know, those sorts of individuals. But by and large, when you canvas the best in the world in all kinds of disciplines, from science and academia to, you know, athletics, you will see that the people that not only are the best, but have sustained long careers of excellence, are people that did lots of things when they were young. And then arrived into their specialty a little bit later,

• 27:36Rich Roll?

  with all of this experience that has contributed to not only peak performance, but sustaining that peak performance.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think that if you have tried out many different things, and you found out that soccer is what I love the most, imagine how many hours and how much energy you're able to then put into soccer, because you know that that's the sport you love the most. Or if it's cross-country skiing, it doesn't matter. But like, I think just have been able to try out different things, and as a kid, figure out that, okay, this sport is where I like to put my focus, and this is where I like to spend my time. Then you're able to spend thousands of hours practicing that sport.

• 28:22Rich Roll?

  And those other experiences aren't distractions, they're actually contributing to your success in your specialty. Like, you were a soccer player. I know there was a moment where you had to make a decision whether you were gonna go into soccer or skiing. But your experience as a soccer player on the pitch contributed to your success as a skier, because it gave you a different kind of fitness and a practice of agility in a different context that has improved your technique as a skier.

• 28:49Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And I think that's, it is an interesting topic. Because I feel like everyone thinks, and a lot of people think, that you need to do it this way or the other. But I think there is, I think we, Norway, we have at least tried to find like a middle way here, where we keep as many of the kids to participate for as long as is possible. And then we, hopefully, then, and then that's at least what we have seen over the years now, that that has developed a lot of top athletes in so many different sports.

• 29:28Rich Roll?

  I love the outdoors, but I'll admit, ever since I started driving my Rivian, I find myself making even more time to just hop in and take it to places where I can live real experiences. I was recently able to drive an R2 with RJ Skrige, the founder and CEO of Rivian, and we talked about how this is no accident. How does that, how does that idea of like, how are we creating this, you know, completely seamless connection with the outdoors through a car that, you know, by definition, sort of has to seal you off from the outdoors? Like, and how do the design decisions inform, you know, that perspective?

• 30:07Speaker 02

  If you're in this car, you should feel like, if you want to go somewhere and explore a hike or stay a little later, it's there. It's just, again, a little nudge to say, it's okay to explore. Seek out the unknown. The front trunk has a drain plug in it. In the rear, the glass dropping in this car is a really nice feature because it'll actually throw a surfboard in the back, or you can easily put your gear in the back. So it's just all these little things that are, you know, that, yes, they're features and they're on their own, they're maybe not the whole story, but you put them all together as a meal, it should feel like a product that's just built for someone that wants to go live, you know, a full adventurous life.

• 30:47Rich Roll?

  To watch the rest of our conversation and learn all about the R2 and the places it can take you, go to stories.rivian.com/retro.

• 30:57Rich Roll?

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• 31:42Rich Roll?

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• 32:23Rich Roll?

  I want to talk about soccer a little bit. So you've been supporting Norway, you've been going to the games, you're going to go to the final here this weekend. How many of the Norway games did you go, did you go to all of them?

• 32:34Speaker 01

  No, I didn't have time to do that. So I came for the, the most important match, which was against Senegal in the group stage. So I was just here for three, four days. One of my good friends is, is playing, so I wanted to, to come out and, and cheer for them. And it was, I mean, it was a cool experience and just seeing how much soccer, I mean, it's, we haven't qualified for the World Cup in 28 years. So in Norway now, it's just been complete World Cup fever in Norway. Like we, like we say in Norway, it's just

• 33:11Speaker 01

  been crazy. Everyone is drinking beer, they are staying up late because of the time difference, and just been completely...

• 33:25Rich Roll?

  Out of their skulls.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would say. It's been all about the World Cup.

• 33:29Rich Roll?

  But here's the thing, like, you're the absolute GOAT in your sport. I can't imagine you would trade it for anything, but is there a small part of you that is, that is like, at these games, you know, watching Norway play, thinking, you know, that could have been me, man. I could have, I could, I could have been out there, like, maybe...

• 33:48Speaker 01

  Absolutely. So many times.

• 33:51Rich Roll?

  Like, look at what's going on with Erling and how the world has just fallen in love with this guy. And he's just become the most famous and celebrated athlete in the world. And you're like, damn, man.

• 34:00Speaker 01

  With, with good reason, though. I mean, he's, he's a great guy and he has, it's so impressive.

• 34:05Rich Roll?

  Are you mates with him?

• 34:07Speaker 01

  I've been meeting him a couple of times in terms of like some, we have some mutual sponsors together. But, uh, yeah, he is a great guy. I mean, it's just amazing to see what he has accomplished over the last, I mean, over his, so far in his career, but also especially this, this World Cup. I mean, it was so much fun. So...

• 34:27Rich Roll?

  And talk about somebody who understands social media. It's insane. So here's what you need to do. You need to, you need to make a YouTube video with him where you make him do a day in your life, and then you live a day in his life, like in training and nutrition, et cetera. I think, I think like the world would go insane.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  I agree. I think that could be, that could be something really cool. Cause I, like, like I said, a few of my, a lot of my friends are soccer players and it's just, I know, I mean, in the, in the summers, we all normally go to a week of holidays together during the summer. And when we then compare the trainings, like soccer player against like me as a cross-country skier, it's like, a couple of years ago, we was in Lofoten up north in Norway, and I was going out for three hours double polling session in the morning, and I came back and then they had been, or he has been out running, he had

• 35:30Speaker 01

  been running like five kilometers, and then he had done 10 times 100, 200 meters up a hill. That was the session, and it has been an amazing session, you know? And that was probably for, say, an hour, max. And then I was out for three hours, came back and knew that I was going out for another two hours in the evening, while he was just having an hour, and it was super satisfying, and that was a really good training there for him. So it's, it's really, like, when you compare those in terms of hours, it's, it's completely different, of course, but they have a way different, like, muscle, stress

• 36:15Speaker 01

  on their muscles compared to what I have when I do three-hour sessions. But, um, yeah, sometimes when I'm doing like three hours in the mud up in Trondheim, like, it's raining and it's just terrible weather, sometimes I wish I was like a soccer player, could do like an hour, hour and a half, and I was like, that was good. But, uh, yeah.

• 36:35Rich Roll?

  Also, also in terms of like, how much you're getting paid by the hour, is a big difference, I would imagine.

• 36:43Rich Roll?

  One thing I didn't know about you is that in, I think it was 2020, you signed a five-year professional cycling contract, like you joined a professional cycling team. Are you still, it's not surprising that you would use the bike to train for ski, but this is how good you are as an overall, like, diverse athlete.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, so the reason for, for me to do that was that me and my granddad was, was looking into how can we develop endurance now? What can we do to become a little bit better? And then we went back to see what, what I have done the previous years. And then I had one year where I was, had broke my collarbone. So I needed to bike for like four weeks until I was able to use my, my upper body again. And that season, I was doing it very good on the skating races. So we went back and looked into, okay, what can we do this year to, to develop endurance? And then I knew the guy that was in charge

• 37:52Speaker 01

  of the cycling team, and I started texting them, and we, we figured out that if I'm going to do more cycling in my training, I want to learn cycling from the best. And that's why I, I contacted them, and we decided that this is something we can work together on. And so I went from, I used the bike 30 hours over a year, and changed that to using it 100 hours a year. But I just wanted to, I wanted to learn as much as possible from the cycling team in terms of how I can use the bike and just fitting and, and everything.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  So I, I do things properly, because I think that's always been one of my key factors, that when I first start doing something and first going to do something, I really want to do it well, you know? And I want to go into the details and see what can I do to, to do better. And that was actually why, why we started working with UnoX, which is now a world tour team. They, two, two days ago, had a stage win in Tour de France, and they've just been crushing it the last, last couple of years. So it's, it's cool to, to have taken part of that and actually learned from, from the best.

• 39:12Rich Roll?

  Are you still on the team?

• 39:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm, I'm still on the team, but it is, they have the season when I don't have the season. So it's, it's hard to, to combine those things. But the last years, I've always been in the Tour de France, just watching, taking part for some days. This year I didn't have time, but it's...

• 39:32Rich Roll?

  Did you race also?

• 39:33Speaker 01

  I haven't been racing, so that's kind of, I wish I did, but I think, I think I started, I actually got a text from Tour Husso, which is kind of the sports director of the team.

• 39:46Rich Roll?

  Absolute legend and director now.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. And he wanted me to like, see if we could quit skiing and, and start cycling. But I think, unfortunately, I think it's too late in terms of like, I think building the endurance in the uphill would be possible, not against today for sure, but like, in, in a quite good...

• 40:09Speaker 01

  Good way. I think it will be possible to have good enough endurance because I think we the VO2 and everything is is very good, but I think the biggest challenge will be just staying in the pack. Like, imagine how much, because I don't have been racing, you know, and also the downhills.

• 40:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, a lot of that you can learn. There's some aspect of it because you haven't been doing it since birth. That would probably be difficult, but you can learn to ride in a pack. You could all, a lot of that is trainable. Like, it would be cool to see you jump into maybe a shorter stage race and and see what you can do. And and that could be another career.

• 40:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I I don't know if it's too late.

• 40:52Rich Roll?

  Turning thirty. I don't think it's too late. I think it's a factor of like, there's a lot of things you could do. What should you do, you know?

• 41:00Speaker 01

  Oh, that's true.

• 41:00Rich Roll?

  But the bike as a training device is exceptional because it's almost like a data extraction machine, like the amount of data and feedback that you can get um from the bike is probably superior to what you get when you're skiing, right? Just in terms of like wattage and like all the, all the, how you can like calibrate and dial in your training. And you can spend, you can do back to back eight hour rides. I don't know what it's like in skiing and and the toll that would take on your body. But as a a vehicle to develop your aerobic engine.

• 41:33Speaker 01

  I think, I think it's, it's a lot of similarities. And I think the biggest difference is like you said, I think in in cycling, you have the all the data in in skiing, that is actually difficult. I mean, the things we can measure is is the heart rate.

• 41:50Rich Roll?

  You don't have a power meter in your, in your ski.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  We don't, so, so it's like, uh, I would say skiing is way more feeling based, you know? When I'm going out for a three hour session, I basically do it on feeling and.

• 42:05Rich Roll?

  You have heart, you have chest heart rate.

• 42:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's, that's kind of the only measurement we can use. Um, but when I'm racing, it's, it's only, it's all only feeling. I I don't ever look at my, my heart rate during a race. I just go there and take it step by step by by feeling.

• 42:26Rich Roll?

  Hmm. Do you wear the, do you look at the data afterwards? Like, are you wearing like a Garmin or a similar type device when you're racing?

• 42:33Speaker 01

  And I've always been, or the last couple of years, I've been just using my VOP here, uh, on the bicep as kind of during the races. And I mean, it's accurate enough, I think. I mean, it's, it's better to use a Garmin in terms of like getting the, but I get the picture and that's kind of what I'm interested in. Because um, for me, it doesn't change anything if my heart rate was one ninety or one eighty-five, it doesn't change anything before the race that I'm gonna do next day. Because the routines, the recovery parts, the nutrition part is is still more or less the same.

• 43:14Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Have you ever trained with Christian or Gustav?

• 43:19Speaker 01

  No, I haven't.

• 43:20Rich Roll?

  Have you met Olaf, uh, their, their coach? You guys would get along.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  He is a part of the, he's part of the UNAX team as well now.

• 43:27Rich Roll?

  Oh, he is. Okay, cool.

• 43:28Speaker 01

  Uh, but yeah, he's a, he's an interesting guy. And what he has done with the, yeah, with three at long in in Norway, and I mean, in the world. I mean, he has the measurements and all the things and data they have collected over the years. It's, it's just insane.

• 43:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, for someone like yourself who's an experimenter and is always trying to, you know, find that, that new thing or that edge, uh, you know, Olaf's like catnip for you.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:57Rich Roll?

  You guys should definitely.

• 43:59Speaker 01

  I think so. I think so.

• 44:00Rich Roll?

  And not to replace your grandfather. I'm sure he knows a lot, but like Olaf is a different animal.

• 44:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. And he's, yeah, his vision and everything, I think it's, it is impressive to to see what they have accomplished as well.

• 44:13Rich Roll?

  What's cool about you also is that this is a family affair. You've got your grandfather as your coach, uh, your dad is your manager. Yeah, your mom handles the finances and your brother is like your social media manager, right? Like, he's, he's driving the YouTube uh, channel for you. So it's all in the family.

• 44:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, uh, we started when I was eighteen and I decided I wanted to do YouTube. I said to my brother, I'll need someone to edit it. So he by himself went on YouTube and learned how to edit on YouTube, you know? And that was how it's, how it started. And then when I started, first started winning races, um, my granddad has always been my coach. So it was very natural to to continue to have him, uh, since we had made that success already when I was twenty. But uh, when I first won a World Cup race, it was just overnight. Things changed back home and there was like a lot of interest in terms of

• 45:16Speaker 01

  sponsorships, media, all the things that kind of comes along to winning a race. And uh, I needed help and my, my dad was just um, was able to, first he started helping me fifty percent and then he worked fifty percent. But then over the last years, it's just that has developed to a hundred percent work. And that's the only thing he do these days. And I'm feel, I feel really privileged to have like the family around me to to be able to uh, join me on, to have my brother here, uh, join me on a trip like that to give him the opportunity to see the World Cup final on Sunday, to

• 45:59Speaker 01

  to experience the same things that I have been experiencing. It's, it's really cool. And uh, I think it has been um, uh, a nice thing to have the family. And then you also have like the, it also comes with some challenging for sure, challenges. You know, when you don't wanna ruin like the family relationship. Um, so I feel like that's kind of the balance we always have been uh, trying to to to figure out in terms of like, when you have a Sunday dinner, you wanna talk about the family, not about me racing, you know? And that's kind of the, that's kind of the challenging part.

• 46:37Rich Roll?

  In addition to your insane uh, training regimen, you're also known for having tremendous technical intelligence. You know intuitively, like when to conserve your energy, when to draft, when to make your move. It's, it's very strategic, uh, this sport, the more I dig into it. Um, so I want to talk a little bit about that as well as the origin of this technique that you developed, this running uphill hill technique that has become kind of your signature move.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I feel like my, the technical aspect has always been something uh, like we talked a little bit about earlier was, that was something we decided to do at a really young age because I felt like that was important. But um, over the last years, as you know, uh, with so many mass starts that we have and so many sprints, I think I have developed like a, a way of seeing things that I've always been really curious about how I can do things better. And I've always been very analytic in terms of how I do things. And I think I have brought that into my sport as well in terms of how I look to a sprint race.

• 47:58Speaker 01

  There is things that I wanna,

• 48:02Speaker 01

  I, I kind of set a plan in terms of what I can do. And then I, I really spend time looking back at uh, what I did last year, like how did I, how did I manage to do this, this turn? Uh, always been fascinating about watching Formula One in terms of like how they do the curves uh, and and stuff like that, that I can bring into my own sport that hopefully uh, helped me to get a little bit of an advantage against my, my competitors. And uh, I think the tactical and technical aspect is for me what I think is the most fun about my sport.

• 48:45Rich Roll?

  Yeah, the only, like, the closest parallel to me is watching a bunch sprint in a cycling race. So if you're Mark Cavendish or you're some other sprinter, like it's not, who wins isn't necessarily a function of who's going to generate the most power out of their legs. Yes, it's their lead out, but it's also this sixth sense of like where to be. You know, there's so many people like in that pack angling to be in the right position to cross the finish line first. And they're just our people, like Mark, they know exactly where to be. They can see the future and they can anticipate where everyone's gonna move. And, you know, when you have these mass starts and you're in these sprints, it's like so much of it is like, where do I need to be?

• 49:30Rich Roll?

  Like, right place, right time, so that I can set myself up to be in position to win this race.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree. And I think um, I think if we have done like a hundred meter sprint just flat out.

• 49:45Rich Roll?

  Like track and field.

• 49:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think I would, I don't necessarily, I don't think I'm the fastest one, or at least not the one that are having the most amount of power. But I think if we take it at the end of a race, it's different. Because then I kind of, when my legs are, everyone is a little bit tired. I think it is way different compared to when everyone is fresh. But also, uh, just like you said, having.

• 50:20Speaker 01

  I have done so many sprints that I kind of know where I need to be at the right time. And I think that is something you develop if you are a little bit analytic, but also if you have done it enough times.

• 50:36Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 50:36Speaker 01

  That's kind of something else. I think like when you look at Mark Cavendish and see how many wins he have, you know, he has over so many years developed so many, so much knowledge and so much experience in terms of where he needs to be in all different kind of finishes. You know, if it's uphill, if it's flat, if it's slightly downhill, there is like, he kind of knows it. And I think, um, that's something you need to work on, but also I think some of the, it's just, it's just the way you, you are, I guess.

• 51:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Yeah. A sixth sense, but also a muscle memory that comes with experience.

• 51:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:23Rich Roll?

  The uphill running, the, the, the Klaabo run.

• 51:26Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 51:27Rich Roll?

  So this is pretty revolutionary. We're used to seeing people go uphill on skis in that kind of V motion, right? That's how everyone has already done it. And the idea being like, this is a moment to conserve energy, like, but instead you're like, I'm going to burn all my matches and just go flat out. Like, the amount of energy expenditure that is required for you to do that has to be insane. So it's a gamble, right? When you do it, like, you can't just do that all the time because you're really redlining yourself to the absolute max when you do that. And I even read that you can't even train it that often because it's so depleting.

• 52:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I feel like, I think you can, you saw it a little bit during the Olympics, but there was a few guys that were kind of burning their tank, uh, already in the quarter final and semifinal. And when they came to the final and we increased the speed a little bit, it was just.

• 52:24Rich Roll?

  Couldn't do it.

• 52:25Speaker 01

  We're not able to, to, to do it. So, um, that technique came from me and my granddad working on a session in, in Trondheim where I was struggling with some, some bad grip on my skis. And instead of just putting on more and more grip, we decided, okay, I'll just jump outside the, the tracks and I, I tried to run a little bit. And I saw that I was actually able to, to have a better grip, but, uh, so I didn't need to put on more wax. And then we just decided, okay, let's, this is interesting. Let's, uh, come back tomorrow and then we, we take the time. Uh, we start running from the bottom with

• 53:08Speaker 01

  one pair of skis with a little bit less, uh, grip, run on the side of the, the hill and we take the time. And the time is, uh, say 50 seconds. And then we go back and put another pair of skis with more grip and we go inside the track, but we are gliding kind of the more regular scheme. And we see that, okay, we're using 52 seconds. Okay. Then we have like an edge share. This is, this is interesting in terms of how we can, how can we develop this? And this was how we, we started with the running part. And then over years, we have just tried to develop it year by year. Uh, but like you said, we're

• 53:51Speaker 01

  not able to do that very often because it just, I'm burning so much energy and I, I know that like every, the start of every season, we have like this race in Finland where we have like this last uphill. And everyone is running the same way now. Like everyone is

• 54:09Rich Roll?

  Now everyone's copying you, but that just because, uh, they've seen you do it, doesn't mean they could do it.

• 54:13Speaker 01

  No. And then you see like, everyone is just at the end of the, the race and the day after, all the people that have done the sprint is just completely destroyed in their muscles. And it's, it is the same for, for me as well. But, so you see over a weekend where if you're going to do three races, doing this on a Friday, it is, it is brutal for, for the next couple of days of, of racing. But on the other hand, I think that is kind of something you learn over years as well in terms of how, how do I save as much energy as possible, but just use enough to win. And, uh, but, um, yeah, it is, I would say

• 54:58Speaker 01

  it's an interesting story because it started just a little bit, um,

• 55:05Speaker 01

  random on a training day in Trondheim, but ended up being something that has really changed the way we do uphill skiing.

• 55:18Rich Roll?

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• 56:47Rich Roll?

  When that clip of you running uphill went viral at the Olympics, were you aware of how that had caught fire? Or were you just in your bubble?

• 56:59Speaker 01

  I knew it when I came back to the hotel and kind of saw that everything, I mean, my, my phone was just blowing up. So, because I knew that in, during the race and everything, when I, when I was running up that hill, because I, I knew when I started the final, when I started and put some speed on the first half part of the final, and I saw that people were struggling, I kind of knew that, okay, this is, today I'm going to win. And then when I put my, my full speed on, on the last uphill, I was like, I, I felt like I was like, this, this is it. Now I feel like I'm, I'm really hitting every single

• 57:43Speaker 01

  push that I'm making. And I know that no one else is able to, to follow this speed, especially because we went quite fast the first half part of the race. And just turning your head on the top of the hill and just seeing that you have a huge gap. It was, I mean, that was an amazing feeling, but I, I didn't understand it because I didn't knew how it was looking before I was come back to the hotel and I saw the video myself and I was like, that looks pretty good.

• 58:20Speaker 01

  So it was like.

• 58:21Rich Roll?

  And if you're in your world, like, people have seen you do that before, but for the average person, it was like, what is going on? Like, I've never seen anything like that before.

• 58:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, but I think that's kind of the cool part about the Olympics as well because there is, you're able to broadcast sports that over a world where.

• 58:45Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 58:45Speaker 01

  People normally don't pay attention to it. And I think it's, it is because it is every fourth year. It is, but it is something special. Olympics is something special. And uh, even though for me personally, just winning the year before, uh, the Six Goals in Trondheim, which is where I grew up, you know, and having hundreds of thousands of people in the forest watching me win the last race on the 50K in Trondheim, personally was a big success for me because it was in my hometown.

• 59:19Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 59:19Speaker 01

  But no one out there is paying attention to a world, world championship in Norway. But when you come to the Olympics, you can just, you can just feel the difference. It's just, uh, way different. But, um, on the other hand, it was, it was cool to finally have like a Olympics in Europe where it's a little bit easier for.

• 59:44Speaker 01

  Everyone to pay attention, you know, uh, we have the, the one in Pyeongchang and the one in Beijing. I mean, it was, those was cool Olympics as well, but it was, it's harder because of the time zone and everything. But just having it in Europe and knowing that it's in 2034, it's going to be in Salt Lake. It's just, yeah, I think that's special.

• 1:00:07Rich Roll?

  My understanding is that you were much more nervous about the world championships in your hometown the year before the Olympics than you were at the Olympics. And the fact that you walked away from that with six golds allowed you to relax at the Olympics. Do you think that, that, that, that having that experience in Trondheim the year before, like allowed you to like, gave you the confidence and the ability to just, you know, kind of be yourself at the Olympics and not get caught up in all of the anxiety and insanity of it. So that you could, you could unleash those performances.

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so, because I think like for me personally, the, the world championship was so, was so huge, you know, it was, I was so nervous in front of the, the world championship. And I kind of was isolated again with myself and my dad for, uh, months, uh, prior to the, to the world championship and I didn't see anyone. I was just really locked in together with my dad. And when the world championship was, was finished, I felt like, okay, I'm super tired mentally. I feel like I'm just really exhausted.

• 1:01:23Speaker 01

  And then I, over the, during that spring, I kind of figured out, okay, we, I need to do some changes in terms of who I bring with me and how I do things. And one of my friends, um, wanted to join before Olympics and we were out on the, uh, altitude camps three times during the fall and during the winter. And just bringing new energy in, just having like a friend where I wasn't thinking that much about Olympics. You know, we're just having fun. I'm, I was doing everything right. I was training well. I was doing my recovery, eating, uh, healthy.

• 1:02:01Speaker 01

  But it was, it was a factor where fun was an important part of the, the daily routines. And I think that really made a big difference. Cause when I came into the Olympics, I was like, this is gonna be fun, you know? I feel like I'm, for sure I'm nervous, but this, this is something I, I know what to do. And then when the Olympics was over, you know, I was, I, I wasn't that exhausted. I was just nice. This was, this was a crazy fun experience. Uh, I wish it lasted longer, you know? And instead of, after the world championship, I just stayed in my, my bed for six days

• 1:02:43Speaker 01

  and was just completely, completely down. But after the, the Olympics, it was just, I want to do this more, you know?

• 1:02:52Rich Roll?

  And that's an evolution from, was it some years prior when you basically isolated yourself and you didn't want to see anyone because you were afraid you were going to get sick and you wouldn't go out to dinner? And you just basically like wouldn't let anyone come near you?

• 1:03:07Speaker 01

  I think that's kind of, especially after COVID. That was something we, cause, um, for, for us as a cross-country skier, the worst thing that can happen is that you just get a little bit sick, you know? Cause then you're not able to perform and you're not able to race either. Uh, but after COVID and everything, it was just so many, you started using the mask. Uh, you are traveling, you, you kind of save, uh, you, you try to like just stay away from people.

• 1:03:44Rich Roll?

  Every person is a pending, impending threat.

• 1:03:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that is.

• 1:03:49Rich Roll?

  Not a great mindset to walk around with for anybody.

• 1:03:51Speaker 01

  No, and it's, it's not a healthy way of, of living your life either. And that's why I think when, when the world championship was over and I said to my, my dad, like, this, this can't continue, you know, we need to do some changes. I need to have some other things in my life that is pulling me away from being that strict. Cause it is not healthy. And, um, I feel like that's what we did prior to the Olympics. And I mean, I was traveling during the winter and I didn't even think about the mask, you know? I was like, uh, I was, I wouldn't have been here before the world championship, you know?

• 1:04:35Speaker 01

  Now I'm here, I feel really relaxed. People are coughing on the street, coughing on the side of me when I'm sitting on the.

• 1:04:43Rich Roll?

  You're in the Petri dish of New York City right now, so.

• 1:04:45Speaker 01

  And, and I couldn't care, you know? And I think that's just a way more healthy way of living. I, I'm so glad that I'm, I've understood that now and that I can, yeah, don't go back to that state.

• 1:05:00Rich Roll?

  Um, but you're still a maniac, uh, you know, like it's, it's, it's a rare individual who, uh, goes from the 14-year-old who's getting middling results to the 15-year-old who says, I'm going to be the best in the world. So there is this, uh, constitutional degree of self-confidence that you're equipped with. And I'm curious around your, like, how you train your mindset? Like, do you have practices for that? Like, do you pay attention to that? Do you invest in the mental game? Cause we can get into like a week in the life of your physical training, but I'm interested in how you think about your mind.

• 1:05:37Speaker 01

  I spend a lot of time practicing my mind. And I think one of the things, or where I spend the most time is that I, I do a thousand hours of training every single year. And I do so many sessions where I just go out three hours by myself in the forest and I'm running in the mud and it's just, um, for, for me, that's kind of my therapy where I work on my mind, because that's where I visualize the races. That's where I, uh, talk to myself and try to like find a balance in terms of,

• 1:06:20Speaker 01

  where I'm, I'm gonna use my, my energy and where is it no point of, of using it? And so without like saying that I go to someone and talk to someone regularly, I would say that I, I still are spending so much time. I mean, it's still in my own head, but it's like, I still have some sort of plan in terms of when I'm out on a three-hour session. It's like, I really want to go through some things like, okay, this is something I would like to work on, like the mental part. And, um, I think the mental part has shown me over the years.

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  Like before the world championships, I woke up the last two weeks, even though I was sick four weeks before the, before the world championship. I was wa- waking up two weeks before and I had so much pain in my throat, like every single morning. And my data and everything was like completely good, but I just, I felt like I was thinking myself sick every single morning.

• 1:07:31Rich Roll?

  That's interesting.

• 1:07:32Speaker 01

  And that happened first time in 2018.

• 1:07:34Rich Roll?

  Just the, the anxiety and the fear of getting sick.

• 1:07:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:37Rich Roll?

  Created physical symptoms.

• 1:07:39Speaker 01

  For, because for me, the worst thing that can happen is to get sick. I'm not afraid of losing. I'm not afraid of, uh, like that it's not going to do well. But I'm, the worst thing that I can happen is that I get sick and not be able to be on the starting line, starting line, fighting for the, the victory. And so that has, and it was better before the, before Olympics. Cause I feel like I have more, I'm more adapted to it. And I feel like for me, when I get the symptoms of having a sore throat before a world championship,

• 1:08:18Speaker 01

  it is always also some sort of symptoms that we're getting closer to something that is really important for me, you know? And I feel like I'm building up that kind of energy. So when I'm on the starting line in a world championship, I know that, okay, I've had the pain in my throat because it's part of my routines now. And I, I'm really motivated and I feel like I'm, I'm so nervous. And when I'm getting nervous, that's where I also perform at my highest level. Cause when it means something for me, it makes it a little bit better, you know?

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  And, uh, I think compare that to a World Cup race where, I mean, I've done 200 World Cup races. And I don't get this nervous as I get before the world championship or the Olympics. And I think that's, it happens first time in 2018 and it has happened every single championship from that year until almost, it was not that much this year, but like until upon the world championship last year.

• 1:09:28Rich Roll?

  I think the mental game is even more important for you now because things are different. Like you've been to a couple Olympics, you've been at the top of your game for a while. But because of your performance in, you know, this past year, there's a white hot spotlight on you right now. Like you're in New York City, you went to the ESPYS last night, you're going to get feted at the Time 100 event this evening. Uh, a lot of attention, a lot of sponsor obligations, and that comes with expectations. Now you're the guy who's expected to win. You're no longer the guy who's out to prove that you're the best. Now you gotta hold on to it. Now you gotta continue to maintain that level of excellence.

• 1:10:08Rich Roll?

  And that's a different kind of pressure that requires, um, even more attention to how you're nourishing your mind and, and making sure that your mindset is dialed.

• 1:10:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree.

• 1:10:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:22Speaker 01

  And, uh,

• 1:10:25Speaker 01

  I think, uh, you know, just by remember how it was when you were, I would say a kid, but when I was twenty and came into the World Cup, no one expected me to win, you know, and it was like just having the mental feeling that you are attacking, you know? More like now, it's

• 1:10:43Rich Roll?

  Defending.

• 1:10:43Speaker 01

  It's more like defending.

• 1:10:45Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:45Speaker 01

  And um, it ne- it does something to you and you need to, you need to be aware of it and you also need to do some adjustments mentally to be able to, cause at the end, it's uh, like my granddad always said, it's, it's just a race.

• 1:11:00Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  At the end, but it's not that easy, you know, and it's, it is, the mental part is uh, for me as important as

• 1:11:11Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:11:11Speaker 01

  the physical part, cause the physical part, I, I've always been very uh, motivated to do the, the physical work that kind of requ- what that it requires.

• 1:11:23Rich Roll?

  It's, I don't think it's about the train, you're gonna always train, you know, hard. Yeah, that's not the issue. I think the secret is what contributed to your success at this past Olympiad, which is enjoying it and, and making it fun. I'm thinking of um, conversation that I had with John John Florence on the podcast, the world champion surfer. And he struggled once he was the best and, you know, he won the world championship, like the expectations were like so daunting to him and his way back was developing this visualization practice where he would, he would visualize every aspect of the wave and how he was gonna ride it, but not

• 1:12:05Rich Roll?

  from the perspective of riding it perfectly, but more from the perspective of the emotions he wanted to feel when he was on the wave, like the same emotions that he had when he was a little kid, like the more you can kind of inhabit that joy and that like love for the sport, it alleviated the pressure and allowed him to then kind of get back on top.

• 1:12:28Speaker 01

  And I think it all makes sense, you know, uh, and I think for me, that's what the last Olympics showed was like

• 1:12:37Speaker 01

  having fun when you're out there racing and like every day upon the, upon the race, it was, it makes life so much easier, but it also makes it better, you know, it was, I, I don't think I would have been able to win those six races if I didn't have a lot of fun on the road until, until the Olympics, cause it's just made, I mean, I have two hundred and sixty eight days away from home. That was the amount of days I had away from home last year and then you need to find the right way of treating yourself on the road. And I think

• 1:13:20Speaker 01

  fun is probably the best ingredients to having, uh, having the best life you can live. And for me, that's something that really, that I learned last year.

• 1:13:34Rich Roll?

  And you have a girlfriend, right?

• 1:13:36Speaker 01

  I have a girlfriend, so we, we have been away from each other for a long time, so we have been kind of used to that, but I think like that, we

• 1:13:47Speaker 01

  and I feel like that's something I learned as well last year was that we need to, and she's now joining me for a little bit more.

• 1:13:55Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:13:55Speaker 01

  And I think that just makes sense and it's just easier and it's way better, cause I think I will perform better as well when you have everything more imbalanced.

• 1:14:08Rich Roll?

  And are you still going to split time between Norway and Park City?

• 1:14:13Speaker 01

  That's the plan.

• 1:14:13Rich Roll?

  So Park City is basically your second home, yeah.

• 1:14:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would say, I would say so. So I, I'm, you're renting the same house every year.

• 1:14:21Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:14:21Speaker 01

  Uh, going back end of August, staying for a month and a little bit over a month, so um, Utah and Park City has been so great. I mean, it's, it's been amazing. Just having eight hours time difference from Norway. Amazing. You can just, you can just like

• 1:14:44Rich Roll?

  Don't have to call people back right away.

• 1:14:46Speaker 01

  Then you wake up, it's two o'clock there and you know that when you are done with your, or when you're going out for your second session, everyone is back at home, they're sleeping, so.

• 1:14:57Rich Roll?

  Right. You're training when they're, okay.

• 1:14:59Speaker 01

  So when you're like in your evenings, it's completely quiet, you can just relax, chill and do the things you, you like, so uh, Park City has been some, a place that I really like and I, I have said it and I wish, um, I have said it to my, my dad as well is that if it was more money into cross country skiing, like I would have, uh, love to have a home in Park City, just because I, I love the place. Uh, it's an exp- yeah, it's a really expensive, but my physiotherapist lives in, in Midway. Uh, just beside Park City and uh,

• 1:15:42Speaker 01

  so um, I spent a lot of time there and um, yeah, Soldier Hollow where the Olympics is gonna be in twenty thirty four. It's a place where we do a lot of the roller skis intervals during the period when we are there, so um.

• 1:15:57Rich Roll?

  The appeal is what, at the altitude, the community?

• 1:16:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, just, you know, it's really high, cause it's two thousand three hundred meters.

• 1:16:06Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:06Speaker 01

  Uh, which is in Europe, which if you're going to a place where it's two thousand three hundred meters, it is more or less on top of a pass. So if you're gonna do a roller ski session, you need to either drive down the valley and then do the training there and then go up at the end of the session. But in Park City, I, I put my roller skis on in the garage and then I can just go out, I can do a flat lap. I can do up hills of all the way up to three thousand meters. Uh, and I can do hilly laps, so there's so many opportunities and possibilities to, to train well there and uh, I mean, it's in August, September, it's a quiet place, not many people.

• 1:16:48Speaker 01

  And the weather, it's compared to Norway, it's just amazing, you know? Uh, being able to go in shorts and t-shirts in September, it's where we're, when we're used to going like long sleeves in uh, in Norway and it's raining.

• 1:17:03Rich Roll?

  Most of the time. Yeah. Uh, so a thousand hours of training a year. Uh, break down a typical uh, week of training when you're in heavy training, like how much of it is strength? The roller ski thing, like how much of it is you on the snow? Like what does it, what does it look like?

• 1:17:24Speaker 01

  Yes, if you take a regular week, uh, during the summer, which is where we have the most amount of training. Uh, it's from the first of May until end of November, it's kind of the peak months of, of training volume. Uh, but for example, last week I had thirty two hours of training. Um, I have three hours, no, two and a half hours of intensity three training, which is threshold.

• 1:17:53Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:17:53Speaker 01

  Uh, I have two, two hours of strength during a week. And then I more or less have fifty percent, uh.

• 1:18:04Rich Roll?

  Just zone two.

• 1:18:06Speaker 01

  Uh, I, I barely do zone two, actually. So that's, that's, that is an interesting part.

• 1:18:11Rich Roll?

  Tell me, talk to me about that.

• 1:18:13Speaker 01

  So what we have figured out is that if I do zone two is, that's kind of what's destroying my fast muscle fibers. So for me, I do my intensity one is really

• 1:18:26Rich Roll?

  Zone one.

• 1:18:27Speaker 01

  Zone one is where I do eighty eight percent of my training.

• 1:18:32Rich Roll?

  Interesting.

• 1:18:33Speaker 01

  And then I do so, like last week, we, I do three hours in the morning, zone one. Go out, do two hours in the afternoon, zone one. That can be a day one. Day two, it's uh, I do thirty minutes warm up, do an hour, hour fifteen of threshold.

• 1:18:51Rich Roll?

  Uh, and then these are like on the, on the um, the roller skis mostly, or is it on the bike? Is it like?

• 1:19:00Speaker 01

  Yes, I would say on a thirty two hours weeks, like I had last week, I probably do uh, three, four hours of running.

• 1:19:13Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:19:14Speaker 01

  Three, four hours of, four, five hours of biking. And then the rest is roller skis.

• 1:19:20Rich Roll?

  And the roller skis are like, they're almost like, like these roller blade type.

• 1:19:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, longer roller blades, basically. So we have one pair which is skating, which you, it's similar to when you're skating. And then you have classic, which you also have, it's really similar to doing classic, but then you have grip, so you can go diagonal, you can double pole. Uh, so you have two different pairs of roller skis, one for each um, discipline, basically. Uh, so the majority of the training during a week is, is roller skis and then we add on, uh, like last week, I didn't run that much, cause I knew that I was going here. When I'm here, I don't, I didn't bring my roller skis, so here I'm doing just running, so I tried to pri- pri- make it like prioritize a little bit, so

• 1:20:11Speaker 01

  last week was more roller skiing than normal, this week more running than normal, so it's at the, at the end, we do, I would say.

• 1:20:21Speaker 01

  Ten percent of my training is cycling. Twenty percent, twenty-five percent of my training is um running.

• 1:20:30Rich Roll?

  Okay, that's a lot. That's wow, more running than cycling.

• 1:20:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, so more running than cycling. And then uh five percent of my training is or between five and seven percent of my training is strength.

• 1:20:42Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:20:43Speaker 01

  And then the rest is roller skis and skis during summer and winter.

• 1:20:50Rich Roll?

  Yeah, there's a lot of confusion around zone two. It's interesting that you say when you uh focus on zone two, it's eroding your high-end speed. It's a threat to your high-end speed. But I think what might get confused in this is the fact that when you're as fit as you are, your zone two is nothing like what people think zone two is because zone two is actually quite taxing when you're super fit, like to be at that level that's just below threshold and sustain that for a long period of time is going to have an impact on recovery, more so than somebody who's less fit. Like a lot of people who are getting into endurance sports are like zone two is so slow. I don't feel like I'm doing anything.

• 1:21:33Rich Roll?

  It's because you're not fit. Like if you're you or Tadej Pagacar, for them to go, you know, for you guys to go out and do four hours of zone two, like you're gonna pay a toll for that in a way that a lesser fit person will not.

• 1:21:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, and the recovery aspect is kind of the most important part here, you know, because it's probably, it just makes the total uh volume a little bit too heavy for me in terms of that I because when I go doing a fifty K, I do more or less threshold, you know, so I try to prioritize having like an hour and a half, hour and fifteen minutes each session on threshold instead of going out and do three hours of zone two, you know, because threshold is more similar to where I'm gonna race while you look into cyclists where they do a lot of their, a race for them is

• 1:22:31Speaker 01

  a lot in zone two, you know, so for me, it's always been about looking into what do you do or how is your sport or what requires to do your sport, you know, so for me, I I'm doing it based on what I believe is the right way for me to do a cross-country skiing and I know that there is plenty of other ways to to do it, but it's um for me, it's always been about looking into the to- total package about how much does it require of uh recovery for each session and just my morning session this morning when I was running an hour on the treadmill, I mean,

• 1:23:13Speaker 01

  I was running seven uh miles per hour uh and that is like really easy zone one. And then imagine just having the impact on the muscles if you're gonna run nine miles per hour just because that's um that's on two, you know, so the impact on the body as well is is important to calculate into the to the total amount of training and recovery you're doing.

• 1:23:45Rich Roll?

  And you have to be able to check all the boxes and excel in all of these areas. You have to have that explosive speed that you need that aerobic capacity, not just for the longer distances, but your aerobic fitness is gonna dictate how long it takes you to lower your heart rate after you've run uphill. You know what I mean? Like if if if that's in the middle of a race, how quickly you can get down to baseline in the aftermath of like a, you know, like like lighting a match like that is going to dictate your overall performance in that race.

• 1:24:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, that is, that's true, and I feel like compared to running, it is easier to do uh cross-country skiing. You mean, you you way hard in the uphills, but then you have like the downhills and the downhills is where you recover and charge your energy before the next uphill because you're in a ten K, you're basically going full speed in every single uphill and then you just need to use the downhills really smart to be able to keep the speed up, but also save and charge your energy.

• 1:25:02Rich Roll?

  Why more running than cycling? I would think cycling would be a better as well as a safer way to build your aerobic engine because without the impact.

• 1:25:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then running, we, it's kind of, running is really similar to classic skiing. I mean, it's more similar than than biking, so when I'm doing like a three-hour running sessions in the mud, it's like uh it's really, it's tough terrain, so it's uh it is really hard to run and we are running with pulse. So then it's yours kind of uh

• 1:25:41Rich Roll?

  You're simulating.

• 1:25:42Speaker 01

  Simulating a little bit uh skiing more with running. So I think that's why. But I don't think running is necessarily very important to to do well on skiing because one year I had a year where I was injured in my hamstring and I was not able to run almost at all, so and that is one of the years that I've done the best in terms of like results in the World Cup, so.

• 1:26:09Rich Roll?

  Who knows? Are you doing regular lactate testing?

• 1:26:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:13Speaker 01

  So we were testing lactate more or less every single threshold uh session we have, just to make sure we are in in in the line on what we want to be.

• 1:26:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and what is the recovery practice?

• 1:26:29Speaker 01

  Oh, so the recovery practice is uh it depends a little bit in terms of if we are home or not because some of the things is, I mean, like here, it's not always easy to bring all the things you would like to have.

• 1:26:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:43Speaker 01

  But I mean, I'm I'm a huge fan of using my sauna and cold plunge, so back home I have

• 1:26:50Rich Roll?

  You wouldn't be Scandinavian if you said otherwise.

• 1:26:53Speaker 01

  No, I know.

• 1:26:53Rich Roll?

  It would be a betrayal.

• 1:26:54Speaker 01

  So so I use my, I use my sauna and cold plunge quite a lot and uh then I've also been using my my red light therapy. Um and then I think just sleep, you know, sleep and healthy food is one of my key factors to my recovery.

• 1:27:14Rich Roll?

  Basic, basic things.

• 1:27:16Speaker 01

  Basic things.

• 1:27:16Rich Roll?

  No cra- do you use like the compression, uh like the the, what do they call the boots?

• 1:27:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:23Rich Roll?

  Yeah, the hyper ice, those things.

• 1:27:25Speaker 01

  I have those things, but it's not that I use it every single day, but I have them as a part of it and sometimes I fail to do it, but sometimes it's just good to go back and sleep, you know, just an hour in the middle of the day after a hard training session. It's just easy to lay in the bed and sleep for an hour and I think that's kind of the best recovery you can do more than just all the other things you can can add on, but I think the the kind of the add-ons is is good to has

• 1:27:55Speaker 01

  or to use a little bit, but I think also I think sleep is the most important part.

• 1:28:01Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the record that you broke for most decorated winter Olympian was previously held by Eric Hayden.

• 1:28:13Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 1:28:14Rich Roll?

  Uh, the American speed skater who burst onto the scene in the nineteen eighty Lake Placid Olympics. Uh, I'm old enough to remember uh when he appeared on the cover of Sports Illustrated in the full gold suit with his like just gigantic legs and and to me, I mean, that he was my hero. I was like, I just, what he did was mind blowing. Before that, I didn't know anything about speed skating and I was like obsessed with this guy. But he uh later became an orthopedic surgeon and I believe he lives in Park City.

• 1:28:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:49Rich Roll?

  So I'm curious, have you guys connected?

• 1:28:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, we have. So a couple of years ago, we had a, I think it was two years ago, yeah. We had a dinner at my physiotherapist's home, so and he was there, so it was it was cool to

• 1:29:04Rich Roll?

  That's pretty cool.

• 1:29:04Speaker 01

  It's cool to to talk to him and catch up and like just hear about how, you know, how they were uh preparing their skates, you know, for for a race and like uh when they sharpen it, you know, and and all those kind of things. It was was really interesting and I mean, he has a you can you can tell that he has a competitive mind, you know, and um so it was a really, it was a cool chat and a cool cool opportunity to meet him and yeah, that was uh at that time, I didn't kind of because that was before, it was before the world championship in Trondheim, so at that time, no one had won six out of six.

• 1:29:47Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:47Speaker 01

  Uh, so at that time, I didn't understand I was actually possible to to do something like that, but uh maybe I should invite him for a dinner in uh

• 1:29:58Rich Roll?

  I think so.

• 1:29:59Speaker 01

  This year to

• 1:29:59Rich Roll?

  I think so. I think that you guys are similar in that he introduced this obscure sport to you know, the the kind of Western audience. Um, and I think it changed, it forever changed the sport and I think that you're doing the same thing for for cross-country skiing

• 1:30:20Rich Roll?

  in a very cool way. Uh, there are plenty of people out there uh speculating on how many uh gold medals you're gonna win before you hang it up. Is there gonna be one more Olympics, two more Olympics, you know, could it be twenty goal, you know, like could we get near Phelps?

• 1:30:38Speaker 01

  We can get, we can get near.

• 1:30:40Rich Roll?

  Eleven versus twenty-three, we're gonna approximate it a little bit.

• 1:30:44Speaker 01

  I mean

• 1:30:45Rich Roll?

  Are you willing to?

• 1:30:46Speaker 01

  If you say that, if you maximize everything and you do two more Olympics, then you can end up

• 1:30:53Rich Roll?

  If you have two more perfect Olympics.

• 1:30:55Speaker 01

  Then you can end up with twenty-three, but

• 1:30:58Rich Roll?

  You're the all-time Olympic goat.

• 1:31:00Speaker 01

  I mean

• 1:31:00Rich Roll?

  That's heavy though. That's pretty heavy.

• 1:31:02Speaker 01

  That's pretty heavy. I think that's, I think that's gonna be tough, but um now, first of all, I said that I will will do one more first and uh but uh if I know myself well, but the next one after that one is in Salt Lake, so it's gonna be in Park City or in Soldier Hollow close to Park City where I've spent so much of my time, so for me, finishing up my career in Park City would be some kind of a dream, but it's still eight more years. Uh, so it's, I don't know if it's realistic, but I will

• 1:31:42Speaker 01

  do everything I can in terms of staying in shape, taking care of my body and everything and I will

• 1:31:48Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:49Speaker 01

  take it year by year, but um I don't think I will uh I can't promise right now that I will do twenty thirty-four, but uh I think I have some sort of a, it's a sort of a dream to to do that, but uh I'm gonna take the first four years and I will we'll see, but for sure, the goal is to to get a little bit closer to Phelps, but uh twenty-three is gonna be hard.

• 1:32:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:15Rich Roll?

  There's only so much of this you can control, you know, but to the extent that there are things you can control, I'm pretty confident you're gonna control them.

• 1:32:24Speaker 01

  At least I'm gonna try my very best.

• 1:32:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Um, well, congrats on all your success, man. I'm a I'm a fan and uh I'm I'm here to cheer you on, man. Uh, you're one of the good guys and it's nice to see you out there. Um, not only winning uh but comporting yourself with a a an admirable admirable amount of of like integrity and dignity and I think that you are a shining example uh for many young men around the world, uh you know, in an aspirational sense and I salute you, my friend.

• 1:32:56Speaker 01

  Thank you. I appreciate it.

• 1:32:58Rich Roll?

  Thanks for taking the time to talk to me today and enjoy New York City.

• 1:33:01Speaker 01

  I will. Thank you.

• 1:33:02Rich Roll?

  All right. Cheers.