I Only Feel Loved by My Wife When We Have Sex

On today’s episode, we hear about: · A husband wanting to feel loved outside of intimacy · A young couple struggling to get her parents’ blessing · A wife unsure how to cope with anger toward her in-laws Next Steps: 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. 🔴 Get 15% off with code DELONY at Bon Charge. 🌿 Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. 😇 Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial. 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 🥤 Get 20% off with code DELONY at Organifi. 💪 Get 25% off your order at Thorne. 🏋️ Go to Trainwell to get started! Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  I heard you say that a lot of young men nowadays only know how to give and receive love through sex. I felt a little pointed out when you said that.

• 0:12Dr. John Delony?

  (laughing)

• 0:13Speaker 00

  So I'd love to know, how does one learn how to receive love through other methods? And I really want to make it easier for my wife to love me.

• 0:29Dr. John Delony?

  Yo, what's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm so grateful that you are with us, talking about your mental and emotional health and your relationships, whatever you got going on in your crazy, crazy life. Whew, man. We all have it. I've got it. Everybody's got it. Kelly especially has it. Kelly, the show producer, so much so that she wore all of her knuckleses today. Bling, bling. Do you have a pinky ring that costs about fifty?

• 0:59Speaker 02

  (laughing)

• 1:01Dr. John Delony?

  No?

• 1:02Speaker 02

  No, I don't. I do have on a, like a, my Yellow Roses Texas Gold Ring, though.

• 1:08Dr. John Delony?

  That costs about ten.

• 1:10Speaker 02

  Hey, actually, no, it didn't.

• 1:12Dr. John Delony?

  Ah, here we go. Hey, if you want to be on this show, I'd love to have you. 1-844-693-3291. Give me a call. For you texters out there, yes, you'll have to call, but a human won't answer. It will just be a recording. And you can leave a message or shoot us a note at johndeloney.com/ask. And, big time, big time, if you'll hit the subscribe button, if you will share these episodes with your friends, leave five-star reviews, it makes a huge, huge difference for us. Let's roll out to Cleveland, Ohio, and talk to Adam. Hey, Adam, what's up?

• 1:42Speaker 00

  Hey, Dr. John. I'm delighted to talk to you today.

• 1:46Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I'm glad that you called, man. And for those of you who aren't Adam, it took us a long time to get this show rolling this morning because we had lots of technical difficulties because... Ben doesn't like hitting record. I don't know, I'm just blaming you because I saw you had a quorum, I've been, but no, it's all good, man. Adam, what's up?

• 2:03Speaker 00

  Okay, so, um, a while ago, uh, I heard you say that a lot of young men nowadays only know how to give and receive love through sex. Um, that I, I felt a little pointed out when you said that. Um, so I'd love to know, how does one learn how to receive love through other methods? You said it was, I, I think you've said in the past, it's effectively the only tool in their toolkit.

• 2:25Dr. John Delony?

  Yes.

• 2:25Speaker 00

  Um, and I, for, for example, I definitely love, love words of affirmation, but nothing gives me those feelings of love like sex does. And I really want to make it easier for my wife to love me. Um, and has been difficult for us.

• 2:41Dr. John Delony?

  Ah, man. Oh, gosh. You're not, I say you're not. You sound like a love languages guy.

• 2:48Speaker 00

  Yes, a little bit.

• 2:49Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Um, so I, I, I don't believe like in the, in the takedown, like there's, there's whole like podcasts and authors and whatever, that their whole life is just, all they do is go around and take down other people. So I'm not really into that. Um, I will say that I think the love language phenomenon, the five love languages and all of the various whatevers. It, it's fine as, as a aha, and it's a good conversation moment, um, between partners and it, it can be cool to like be reflective. Um, but it's not real. And I think we end up, sometimes those love languages get weaponized as you have to do this because this is the only way that I am programmed. And if you don't do this, then

• 3:32Dr. John Delony?

  you're choosing to not love me. Um, instead of it being like, huh, yeah, like I have a bent this way or I kind of lean this way. So, um, tell me about what love looks like in your house. You got kids?

• 3:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, I got three boys. Um, I am extremely affectionate with them. Um, I, I would say more so that than anything else. Uh, my wife is a little bit more, she seems to enjoy quality time with them. Um, and this guy is always pushing me to spend more quality time with them and try to speak their love languages. Um, but, uh, I mean, as far as what love looks like, that's about it. Um, we, I'm, I'm, we try to say nice things to our kids too, like, you know, proud of them, think that they're awesome, et cetera.

• 4:20Dr. John Delony?

  What does love look like for you?

• 4:23Speaker 00

  Um, I guess, I, I think, like, like I said, it feels like sex. Um, and, um, you know, my, my wife would say nice things to me and that, that feels nice. Um, but

• 4:36Dr. John Delony?

  But then you're like, okay, prove it.

• 4:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I kind of, it almost feels like, uh,

• 4:41Dr. John Delony?

  And you're not crazy.

• 4:42Speaker 00

  Going upstairs now?

• 4:43Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, oh, you look really nice today. It's like, oh, sweet. You just want to take your shirt off. I, I get that. I totally get it. Um,

• 4:54Dr. John Delony?

  I'm trying to, I'm trying to do this in a way that I can also teach at the same time instead of just pulling apart your situation. Um, so that, cause I know, like, I'm really grateful that you called because millions and millions of men experience this. And on the other side, millions and millions of spouses experience trying to love with three kids. How old are your boys?

• 5:13Speaker 00

  Uh, three, five and eight.

• 5:15Dr. John Delony?

  Good gosh, you, you haven't felt love in a long time, have you? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 5:19Speaker 00

  No.

• 5:21Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about growing up for you.

• 5:24Speaker 00

  Um, I, my, my, my father was pretty, uh, intense, I'll say. Um, my mother was very loving and kind of tried to protect us from his outbursts, I'll say. Um, so, uh, love was kind of avoiding my father and leaning into that relationship with my mother.

• 5:45Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 5:47Dr. John Delony?

  Man, you are, um, you're, you're helping a lot of people by being honest. Um, what did high school romance look like for you?

• 5:55Speaker 00

  Uh, a lot, I, I had, I was, I was a serial monogamist. Um, I, I had long relationships, but a lot of them.

• 6:02Dr. John Delony?

  Yes.

• 6:03Speaker 00

  And, um,

• 6:04Dr. John Delony?

  Very deep, very deep, very fast?

• 6:06Speaker 00

  Uh, I wouldn't say deep, uh, but

• 6:09Dr. John Delony?

  No, and that's, I, I mean it like this. Did you fall hard?

• 6:14Speaker 00

  Yeah. Oh, and I was, and I was always the one who loved more than the other, even now in my relationship, I was, I'm the, I'm the adorer.

• 6:20Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 6:20Speaker 00

  Um, so, and my wife is the adored and every single girlfriend I had ever had, I, I fell harder than they did.

• 6:27Dr. John Delony?

  Yes.

• 6:28Speaker 00

  It's a little, it's, it's almost embarrassing to think about it, honestly.

• 6:31Dr. John Delony?

  Well, so I get that, but also I want to step back and, um,

• 6:40Dr. John Delony?

  I don't know dude, if I let myself, uh, it's a rainy day here in Nashville, it's kind of just a gray day and so it's just one of those days we, I, just on the way to work, I was a little extra introspective just because of the weather and I listened to like moody music kind of thing. Um, I can get choked up. Here's why. I'm thinking about a little boy

• 6:59Dr. John Delony?

  who so desperately, um, wants to be seen and known and hugged by his old man. And is constantly have, having to be rescued by mom, by this maternal figure. And I'm looking at a little boy who goes off a cliff every time somebody gives him a little bit of attention. Because, not because there's something wrong with him or it's embarrassing, but because he's desperate for oxygen. Yeah. And he falls hard. Breakups are really hard in, within 24 hours. Instead of mourning that, the, I, dude, I love a good middle school or high school like crush, I love them. Um, but instead of mourning it and being sad like you're supposed to and you get quote unquote dumped, right?

• 7:43Dr. John Delony?

  Um, you're right onto the next because this is a matter of survival for your little nervous system. Cause home's not safe. And the challenge is, and uh, uh, again, the challenge is it's really easy for you guys to get in a dance, especially with a chaotic house like you have. I need this. This is my love language. I need sex. I need this to feel loved. So your wife loves you and she puts you on a chore list. Yeah. That's exactly how it is. We gotta get the boys fed, we gotta get the boys done here, we gotta do this, um, you get the yard mode. I gotta, I gotta get him off and then I can go do this and then I can go to sleep.

• 8:25Dr. John Delony?

  And what she does when she moves you to a chore list, she becomes your mom. Yeah. Right? She becomes a person, you become yet another thing that she's gotta take care of that day.

• 8:38Dr. John Delony?

  And so the reason I don't like the love languages, other than just a flyby reflective tool is it puts people on chore lists and it avoids the harder conversation, the more vulnerable conversation, which is you looking at her saying, "I want you. How can I love you today?" And that all covers up the deeper question, which is, most of the men running around needing, as they say, and by the way, men don't need sex. You need oxygen, food, and water. What we really want to say, that we're terrified to say is, "I want you. I want to be with you. I have all kinds of crazy, dirty thoughts about you. I want you." But when we say we want something and we don't, and someone says, "I'm not going to

• 9:23Dr. John Delony?

  give that to you," that's so devastating that we then dump it into this, "Well, I need it. I need a half the half," right? And so the ultimate question you, I have to ask, are you, are you wondering, becomes, "Why doesn't somebody love me?" Because when you, when you outsource it to a physical act, it's basically a little kid asking, "Will you prove it? Will you prove it? Will you prove it?" Yeah. And when you get a group of guys, and I'm all about getting a group of guys and meet with, I talk about that all the time, you have to have that. But if the group of guys just sit around and it's this, iron sharpens iron happens through action. It

• 10:05Dr. John Delony?

  doesn't happen around like, "So what did you do? Are you struggling with this? What are your struggles?" Like, well, let's talk, like, you get what I'm saying? Because it just becomes a one-up. Rumination. Yeah, it's, it's trying to hack your way around, do we have to go do stuff together? We have to share a common purpose and mission. And I would be willing to bet, there's a lot of secrets held at that table. Fair?

• 10:30Dr. John Delony?

  Yes. Yeah, I think so. And you might be the open one, which is awesome, but I, it, I've never seen one of those groups where someone doesn't sit down and be like, "Hey, I'm cheating on my wife." And it's, it stuns everybody. Or, "I've been an alcoholic for three years," and everyone's like, "What?" And they don't know. Now, now again, it's not every, every group. But backing all the way out, let me ask you this. You, Adam, why don't you feel like you're lovable? What is it about you?

• 11:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, I I don't know. Um.

• 11:07Speaker 00

  I think like intellectually, I feel like. I I like everybody should love me like I I'm I'm I'm pretty much a people pleaser. Um.

• 11:19Dr. John Delony?

  But hold on, you had to be. You had to be.

• 11:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 11:23Dr. John Delony?

  That was a survival skill.

• 11:25Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I was the guy that you you say, uh, the trauma response of getting good grades. I was that guy.

• 11:34Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 11:34Speaker 00

  Um, and was pretty, I I generally been successful at everything I put my my hand and my mind to. And and I'm also just like, I got a silver tongue. I'm I'm good at talking to people like everybody really seems to think. Even at work, people seem to think I walk on water, but for whatever reason, I can't.

• 11:56Speaker 00

  Like I I've said to I've said to my wife in the past, um, the one person I want to love me, I feel like doesn't. And that's her, right? I want her to love me. Everybody else thinks I'm fantastic. And for some reason, I can't get her to love me.

• 12:10Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, but she's the last one that sees you.

• 12:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, she sees all my crap.

• 12:14Dr. John Delony?

  And my well, but my guess is she looks at you and says.

• 12:19Dr. John Delony?

  I I I made a human. I made three humans with you. I make sure this house is running. I make sure like in in her mind, like, how else do you want me to love you? And what I'm what I'm be willing to bet is there's a constant escalation.

• 12:34Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 12:34Dr. John Delony?

  Love look like this, like, will she will? Can we just make out? Love look like, can we sleep together? Love look like? And increasingly, that's ramp up the the novelty of our sex.

• 12:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're absolutely right.

• 12:46Dr. John Delony?

  But that's not about her.

• 12:48Speaker 00

  She's gonna scream when she listens to that.

• 12:49Dr. John Delony?

  Well, here's the thing. It's you chasing a ghost. Will you will you do a quick experiment with me or a quick exercise with me?

• 12:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 12:57Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, I want you to close your eyes.

• 12:59Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 12:59Dr. John Delony?

  And I want you to picture yourself sitting down in a chair in a completely empty room. And there's one other chair in that room, and it's about four feet from you facing you.

• 13:08Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 13:12Dr. John Delony?

  Your old man walks in and sits down.

• 13:15Speaker 00

  Don't do this to me, John.

• 13:16Dr. John Delony?

  I want you to picture him sitting down.

• 13:21Dr. John Delony?

  What do you say to him?

• 13:24Dr. John Delony?

  You can say anything.

• 13:27Dr. John Delony?

  You can ask him anything.

• 13:36Speaker 00

  Why was it so difficult to be nice to me?

• 13:39Dr. John Delony?

  No, that was silver tongue Adam.

• 13:44Speaker 00

  Why won't you love me?

• 13:45Dr. John Delony?

  No, you're just answering that because like that way because you want me to answer that. What would you say?

• 13:49Speaker 00

  I really think that's what I'd say. I think I would say to him, "You were a jerk to me as a kid."

• 13:54Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 13:55Speaker 00

  "Why was it so difficult for you to be a kind person?" "I care so much about kindness now."

• 14:03Dr. John Delony?

  Talk to him, talk to him, talk to him, talk to him.

• 14:09Speaker 00

  "I feel like you were nice to everybody else. Everybody else thought you were a nice guy. Everybody I've met nowadays thinks that you're a nice guy and doesn't understand me when I say that you were a jerk to me when I was a kid. Why did you treat me like that?"

• 14:26Dr. John Delony?

  Keep going.

• 14:32Speaker 00

  "Why did you treat mom like that? Why did you treat my sister like that? I don't understand where this behavior, why you feel like it's acceptable to behave like a child to me and my family."

• 14:53Speaker 00

  I don't know if that's it. That's all I'd say.

• 14:57Dr. John Delony?

  Now, I want you to do something even harder. Imagine you're 10. I want you to look down with your eyes closed and your feet aren't touching the floor.

• 15:08Dr. John Delony?

  And you see your little feet kicking. I don't know what kind of shoes you wore. I wore little Converse All-Stars when I was a kid. I want you to look at whatever shoes you're kicking. I want you to look back up and see your dad.

• 15:17Dr. John Delony?

  What does 10-year-old Adam ask your old man?

• 15:30Speaker 00

  I don't know. I mean, beyond everything I've already said, I don't know what else I would say.

• 15:34Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 15:36Dr. John Delony?

  Probably something simple like, Dad, can we go outside?

• 15:42Dr. John Delony?

  Hey Daddy, will you not hit me anymore?

• 15:46Dr. John Delony?

  Hey Dad, can you just go off the couch? Can we go play?

• 15:50Dr. John Delony?

  Look Dad, I took my shirt in for you.

• 15:54Dr. John Delony?

  Look Dad, look. I got another one of those special numbers on this piece of paper that you want so bad.

• 16:02Dr. John Delony?

  Am I good enough now?

• 16:08Speaker 00

  I think back to when I was a kid, I did not want to play with my dad. I had no interest in being around him.

• 16:16Speaker 00

  It was, and like, and my dad didn't hit me, like, but he was just very verbally abusive and I I just stayed away. I hid to survive, you know?

• 16:28Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. So here's, you're

• 16:36Dr. John Delony?

  I guess I'd say, man, is you're not broken, but you have a lot of healing to do. And here's where it is.

• 16:44Dr. John Delony?

  You've been trying to ROI. You've been trying to solve for that question. And our culture gives us a playbook of

• 16:54Dr. John Delony?

  lies that are supposed to solve that question. What was so bad about me? What's so bad about mom?

• 17:02Dr. John Delony?

  What was so bad about me? I was freaking nine. I was 13. Why did you come home so angry all the time?

• 17:11Dr. John Delony?

  And culture says, you can show them by making this much money. You can show them by having everybody like you. You can show them by being the go-to guy. When anything goes wrong, we're gonna call out him because he'll be here to solve it.

• 17:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:23Dr. John Delony?

  And then you marry somebody.

• 17:26Dr. John Delony?

  And she thinks she won the lottery with a smooth-talking, good-looking, solve-everything, good grades, gonna make us some money and keep me safe guy.

• 17:37Dr. John Delony?

  And then you realize all of these other things don't work. And so increasingly, you put it on her shoulders to solve it.

• 17:46Dr. John Delony?

  And it's, "I wanna have kids. Okay, cool. Let's have three. I wanna do this. Okay, cool. I wanna move here. Cool. Let's move again, 'cause I just got a new promotion. Okay, cool. Let's do this. I wanna get this car. This will help." And eventually, it all comes down to, "You must prove that you love me." And that is why the Five Love Languages, the Myers-Briggs, Enneagram stuff, I don't like them because they become weapons. "You will do this, or it will finally prove to me why my dad didn't love me, 'cause I'm unlovable, 'cause you won't even do what I'm saying." Or, quote-unquote, "What I need." And I need you to hear me say, dude, all of this stuff is an extra... You're trying to take external wallpaper

• 18:31Dr. John Delony?

  and cover up an internal hole that's the size of Kansas inside your chest. And I'll just tell you now, she can't. She can't fill it. Yeah. What do I do next? Yeah, well, I got a couple of things for you. One is the practical. I want you to do the bravest thing you've probably ever done. I want you to go sit with somebody and be honest. And there's some stuff that you can tell the guys that you sit at a table with. You can tell something to a counselor that I promise you would make their toes curl. Fair? Hmm, maybe. I don't know. You can. I've lived a pretty boring life.

• 19:14Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. And then the second part is, I want you to sit down with your wife and begin to have conversations about want, play, laughter. We often exchange excitement for joy. We think we're chasing this excitement. And if we're good men, we dump all that on one person. It's just a lot. What brings you joy? What gives you peace in your heart? Is sex a part of that? Of course it is. Is adventurous, novel sex a part of that? Of course it is.

• 19:59Dr. John Delony?

  But if that's the end aim, I'm promising you not what nobody can hold that. We have a culture that's been melted by that message. So, A, your wife is blessed and it's honorable that she has a husband that just wants her all the time. But I also promise you, she feels that you don't want her to be together. You want her because she's feeling it. You want her like a Xanax. Yeah. And that's not sex. That is, that's numbing. That is so I don't have to feel unloved in my own skin.

• 20:43Dr. John Delony?

  And I wish there was another way, other than grief demands a witness, you sitting with another person, preferably a trained person, but maybe these guys are your guys. And you can sit down and have like the deep, hard, I gotta be seen. Here's a couple of easy things you can do in a day. Have the breaks and gas pedals conversation. I want you and your wife to read Emily Nagotzky's, what's the name of that book? I just lost it.

• 21:08Speaker 02

  Come As You Are.

• 21:09Dr. John Delony?

  Come As You Are, that's right. Y'all read that book together. Read that book together. And I want y'all to have some conversation, and it will be super, super comically awkward in all the best ways. Emily's a great writer, but she gets right to it, man. And I want y'all to begin to ask questions like, how can I love you? What does love look like in this moment today? And on and on and on. And the sex will come, and I'm telling you, this is wild. Sex will be different. It will be deeper and more fulfilling in a wild way. And it will be a, what kind of sex you want to have tonight? And what are you into? And it becomes something, it becomes an act of play and an act of escape, not an act of desperation.

• 21:52Dr. John Delony?

  It's the greatest sex you'll ever, ever, ever have. Because it won't be survival sex. It will be together, two people, two great, great, great friends who are like, dude, it's on tonight.

• 22:09Dr. John Delony?

  I'm proud of you, man, for making that call. When we get off the phone, I want you to pick up a phone book in your local area. I want you to call somebody, preferably, it doesn't matter what the gender is, but call a therapist and sit down and start having those hard conversations. Today's day one, brother. We'll be right back. All right, I gotta say it, I love Organifi. I love them. But I also get that some folks are skeptical about whole food powders. Are they even worth it? Right? I get it. So if any of you are still on the fence about green and red juice powders, or Organifi in general, or you just want a simple way to try out Organifi, I got the perfect solution. The Organifi Starter Kit. It's like if Organifi released a greatest hits album, but without all the obligatory lame live tracks.

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• 24:09Dr. John Delony?

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• 25:34Speaker 02

  At the end of that first call, you said, "So I want you to pick up a phone book from your local area," which no one has done in 20 something years?

• 25:43Dr. John Delony?

  My friend Cassie said, "Phone books are when people used to print off parts of the internet and put them on your front door." Pick up a phone book? Did I really say that?

• 25:53Speaker 02

  You did.

• 25:54Dr. John Delony?

  Dude, I got old up in here real quick.

• 25:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, real fast.

• 25:56Dr. John Delony?

  Yellow pages. Man, you kids and your internets, y'all don't even know. You don't even know! If you wanted to call Kelly Daniel, you'd have to, like, open the phone book and there'd be 30 Daniels and you'd start the thought.

• 26:08Speaker 02

  And you'd look down and you'd hope that, like, maybe their name's listed in there.

• 26:11Dr. John Delony?

  Just start calling. "Is Kelly there? Hello?" And you hang up.

• 26:17Speaker 02

  It's different if it was a different time.

• 26:20Dr. John Delony?

  Like or subscribe?

• 26:23Dr. John Delony?

  Hey, man, for real, hit the subscribe button on YouTube. So, all right, let's go out to, we got a couple here, but they're long distance. So, we're gonna slap it up, flip it and reverse it first and go to Virginia Beach and talk to Ethan. What up, Ethan?

• 26:36Speaker 03

  What's up, John? How you doing?

• 26:37Dr. John Delony?

  Dude, I could not be doing any better, man. How are you?

• 26:40Speaker 03

  I'm doing great, man.

• 26:41Dr. John Delony?

  Excellent, excellent. All right, we're gonna bring in Grace, who's in Columbia, South Carolina. Hold up. Grace, you there?

• 26:49Speaker 04

  Hi, John. How are you?

• 26:50Dr. John Delony?

  I'm so good. I'm good. All right, so, um, Ethan, I think you're the one who called in with a question and, uh, let it rip, dude. Let's get into it.

• 27:01Speaker 03

  All righty. My question is, how should we proceed in our relationship when we haven't gotten my girlfriend's parents' blessing?

• 27:09Dr. John Delony?

  Have you not got it because you haven't asked for it? Or did you ask for it? They said no.

• 27:14Speaker 03

  I asked for it and it was a long conversation where I feel like her mom was bashing me.

• 27:23Dr. John Delony?

  Dude, okay, tell me how it went.

• 27:26Speaker 03

  So, uh, it was around Thanksgiving and, um, earlier in the day, I had asked her dad if I could have a conversation with, uh, him and his wife and my girlfriend was at the table as well. And, uh, the conversation started off good. I mean, we were just talking about how everybody was doing and everything and it got to the point in the middle of the conversation where I asked them what I needed to do in order to get their blessing.

• 27:51Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, no. I bet they give you a list, huh?

• 27:55Speaker 03

  No, they didn't really give me, I mean, they gave me a couple of things, but I felt like it was just, her dad didn't really say too much. It was more of her mom and she was just like, we feel like you're being manipulative toward her and you're trying to take her away from our family and some other things. And it actually went on for like an hour and a half, man, to where like she told me I was getting upset at what she was saying. Like she said that she could see me getting angry. And I was like, well, of course I'm gonna be a little upset, but,

• 28:23Speaker 03

  yeah, it was like an hour and a half conversation where I really didn't say anything. Nobody was really saying much except her mom. And it was a lot.

• 28:31Dr. John Delony?

  Was it something that you could tell had been building up for a long time?

• 28:37Speaker 03

  I don't know. Like, I just felt like it all came out at once.

• 28:40Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Why, why did you, why did you feel the need to ask both of them at the table?

• 28:46Speaker 03

  Um, cause I just feel like, I mean, she can speak for herself, but I think it was important for my girlfriend for, to get that blessing before we proceed.

• 28:54Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Grace, what was your, uh, memory or experience of that, of that conversation?

• 29:00Speaker 05

  Um, it was definitely a hard conversation. Um, I kind of anticipated it not going the way it went, but just maybe not having the outcome we wanted. Um, simply because there's like other tensions, you know, in life right now. And, um, I'm the oldest of four, just to give some context.

• 29:25Dr. John Delony?

  How old are you?

• 29:26Speaker 05

  And I'm 26. I just turned 26 in January. Um, and mine and Ethan's relationship is my first, like, long-term, genuinely like this is gonna happen kind of thing. Um, and on top of that, it's been long distance. So, you know, that ropes in some difficulty as far as family time and them getting to know one another and things like that. And, um, we'll be having dated a year in April, but it's just, it's come with its own, like, good and bad at times. But going back to that conversation, I think it was a lot of fear that was like the root of that reaction.

• 30:10Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, but she, she, you would have known that mom's gonna react like that, cause mom always reacts like that.

• 30:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, that was my biggest fear.

• 30:18Dr. John Delony?

  So why'd, why'd you set Ethan up in that, in that situation?

• 30:23Speaker 05

  I don't think it was in, it was never an intentional, let me set him up for this to happen the way it did.

• 30:29Dr. John Delony?

  But you kind of knew what was gonna happen though, right?

• 30:32Speaker 05

  I think my inner fear was, what if this happens? But then on the flip side, I was like, I would hope at 26, they can see that I'm happy and we're happy and then just be in support of that and be happy for us kind of thing.

• 30:49Dr. John Delony?

  Have they, have they ever been supportive in that way of you?

• 30:54Speaker 05

  I mean, I think to them, support looks like

• 31:01Speaker 05

  being available or being involved in a way. Um, but I've never truly dated someone where it was like I knew I wanted to spend life with them, like I wanted to have them around and, you know, pursue life with them. And so I think there was always an idea that it would be somebody familiar or somebody close to home or, you know, not necessarily like states away. Um, and so things being different than expected, it's just been very hard for them to like come to terms with that.

• 31:39Dr. John Delony?

  Ethan?

• 31:40Speaker 05

  And then when it...

• 31:41Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, go ahead, go ahead. E- Ethan, did you, did you feel like Grace hung you out to dry?

• 31:47Speaker 03

  Um, I didn't feel like with the conversation, she hung me out to dry. But, I mean, me and her have already talked through this a little bit, but when her mom was saying all those things about me, like she was just sitting there quiet.

• 32:02Dr. John Delony?

  That's what I mean.

• 32:03Speaker 03

  You know what I'm saying?

• 32:03Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, yeah. Grace, why didn't you, why didn't you intervene and say, whoa, whoa, whoa, stop talking about the guy that I love?

• 32:11Speaker 05

  Um, in all honesty, it just triggered like the little girl.

• 32:15Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 32:16Speaker 05

  In me. And I, believe me, John, believe me, and I've wanted to speak up, but I felt like I couldn't in a way. Like I felt like I was the one in the wrong. Since then?

• 32:31Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 32:32Speaker 05

  Like have I gone back and spoken up?

• 32:33Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 32:33Speaker 05

  Oh, for sure, yeah.

• 32:34Dr. John Delony?

  How did that go?

• 32:35Speaker 05

  But I know, and, um, it was heard and it was very honest and straightforward and I think it established a boundary that is, was probably not known prior to now.

• 32:51Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 32:52Speaker 05

  Or prior to that conversation.

• 32:53Dr. John Delony?

  They didn't, they didn't know, they didn't, they didn't know you had a backbone. They thought, she's still our little girl and she's still gonna do what we say, wouldn't we say it, how we say it? And

• 33:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 33:02Dr. John Delony?

  You got kinda run over at the beginning in that conversation, which by the way, happens. I'm not, it's not a beat up, but I'm just trying to call out, if I'm Ethan, I would feel like I'd keep side eyeing you, be like, are you gonna stand up? These are your parents and

• 33:14Speaker 05

  Right.

• 33:15Dr. John Delony?

  I get that, but also if you circle back and said, whoa, whoa, whoa, this never happens again, not on my watch, you've done this to me my whole freaking life and this is over. So Ethan, what's the root of your call, man? Trying to figure out how to move forward?

• 33:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, just trying to figure out how to move forward and if you think I necessarily need to ask for their blessing again. I mean, because I know that is so important to my girlfriend that we get their blessing. And another thing is her dad never really said much in the conversation. Like, I feel like that's who I really want to get my blessing from, but I feel like he was just kind of quiet sitting there, you know? So I really don't know like how he, like what he thinks.

• 33:54Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, man. I don't want to speak ill of him because he's not on the phone. Um, one of two things, either he's a complete and utter coward and didn't believe anything his wife was saying, but just doesn't want to fight her. And so he doesn't mind watching some guy get run over on his, at his, at the kitchen table.

• 34:14Dr. John Delony?

  Because it's easier to keep the peace with his out of control wife, or you know exactly what he thinks of you. She just speaks for both of them. Neither of those are good.

• 34:24Speaker 03

  Right.

• 34:25Dr. John Delony?

  And if he didn't reach back out afterwards and call you and be like, hey dude, how that went was wrong. I'm sorry. No bueno. I'm sorry.

• 34:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, I mean, the, the morning after, because I mean, that, I was at their house. The conversation probably ended at like midnight and I ended up just packing my stuff and leaving.

• 34:45Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 34:45Speaker 03

  And like heading out.

• 34:46Dr. John Delony?

  That's exactly what I would have done.

• 34:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I just, I left and he ended up texting me the next morning early. And just asked how I was doing and I told him how I felt and how everything made me feel. And he just said it was no intention for us to make you feel that way. We just, I don't know, just that, that, that kind of stuff, you know?

• 35:04Dr. John Delony?

  Well, I mean, it was a hundred percent their intention and they got what they wanted. They wanted you to leave.

• 35:10Dr. John Delony?

  And they got what they wanted, which is you to get away from their daughter for a minute.

• 35:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, that was another thing her mom was saying in that conversation is she felt like I was smothering her in a way and that like we should take like I was like she wants to like not talk to each other and like take a break and she was like basically said yes and I was like well I'm I'm not gonna do that I mean I love her.

• 35:32Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 35:33Speaker 03

  So.

• 35:33Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, she doesn't really get a vote there. I I to me Grace, what do you still look at searching for? Cause here's the thing, I'm an old fashioned Texan.

• 35:43Dr. John Delony?

  I called my wife's Texas father and asked for permission to marry his daughter. Number one, she was a grown woman and we're not in the 1300s, right? I wasn't trading like many goats for her, right? She wasn't his possession to quote unquote giveaway. Um, and um, I also, I don't know, there's, there's, there's an old school respect thing that I just like. Um, and so I'm all about it. I love it. And by the way, my father in law was hog hunting and uh, he's, he's, he's one of my favorite people in the world, but he was gone. I went ahead, I talked to my wife's mom, um, she was awesome and said we'd be honored and whatever.

• 36:27Dr. John Delony?

  Um, my father in law called me back that night, late and said, I heard you asked my daughter to marry her. What'd she say? He knew and I said, she said, yes, got long silence and he just said, there's not a rock small enough that you can hide under that if you hurt my daughter, I won't find you. And I was like, yes, sir. And he goes, alright. And he was, he was awesome, man. But I remember him being like, got it, got it. I love that. I love it. There's a lot of theater in it, but I love it. But here's the thing. If you're asking for a blessing, grace, out of this codependence.

• 37:03Dr. John Delony?

  Like I've never been able to pick a class in high school, buy a car, um, pick an apartment, um, date more than two weeks without mom coming in and saying, this is what's gonna happen. This is how it's gonna be. Or anytime I got a C on a college class, my mom was the one calling the college professor. If that was your life and you're codependently, you, you can't move forward without them nodding approval from on high.

• 37:31Dr. John Delony?

  Then Ethan, I would say I'd run or at least take a big step back because Grace, it's you're gonna be asking her opinions on, she's gonna, you're gonna have a third person at your table for your entire marriage and your marriage is gonna suffer for it.

• 37:45Dr. John Delony?

  If, if Grace, you like the picture, you, you, as a little girl, you always had this dream of the guy you were gonna marry was gonna ask your dad for your hand in marriage and he was gonna say yes, and they were gonna punch each other in the arm, like, I don't know whatever picture you had.

• 38:00Dr. John Delony?

  If you just know, that's what I wanted, and I totally get that, and I love it, and I hope Josephine demands that of her, the person, my daughter, Josephine, demands that of who she marri- I, I hope that's the case. Um, and it's old fashioned, and it's, I, I don't care, I like it. But, if you're doing this because you are so uncertain about your next move, because your mom has dictated every move in your life, you're gonna have to cut that cord, or you're gonna have to let Ethan go.

• 38:27Dr. John Delony?

  Because when y'all two-

• 38:28Speaker 05

  Well, I'm not letting him go.

• 38:29Dr. John Delony?

  When y'all two say, "I do," you can't invite her to share your bedroom with you. And you can't invite her into your finances, and you can't invite her into your home decisions and job decisions. You can't invite her into, like, permission to send your kids to a certain school or whatever. It's gotta be you and Ethan, ride or die.

• 38:49Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 38:51Dr. John Delony?

  And so if there's a grieving, you know, like, tell me about this blessing, what do you need from it?

• 38:56Speaker 05

  Um, I've, honestly, it's not, for me, it's not really a codependency thing, it's more so just that, as their oldest daughter, I always prayed for and envisioned then having that relationship with my spouse, significant other-

• 39:15Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 39:16Speaker 05

  Before they could hand that over with joy and excitement, and I can't make them feel those things. I think they do feel those things, but there's, it's, it's a, it's coupled with grief, because they see their daughter's not gonna be around like she always has been-

• 39:33Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 39:34Speaker 05

  And available to them in ways that I have been, and, um, like, you know, life has ultimately built, built my family cards in ways that it's like, at the end of the day, all we had was family-

• 39:50Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 39:51Speaker 05

  Like, the six of us, and so- That is what's hard is drawing that line of separation.

• 39:58Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 39:58Speaker 05

  You know, to step away from that. And so it's like, at the end of the day, I know I love my parents and I, you know, I seek their wisdom and all of that, but I also know that I am an adult.

• 40:11Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, they raised, they raised a strong, smart woman. Right. Ethan, there's not really like a, like a research answer to this. I'm just gonna tell you what I would do. I would reach out and call dad. And I would say, hey, I'm gonna be in town. I'm gonna come in and visit. I wanna take you out for lunch. Just you. And, um, and I would probably be pretty, pretty direct and specific and say, the last conversation we had didn't go well. I didn't ask the question right, and I'm gonna own that. Um, I'm gonna ask your daughter to marry me, and it would mean the world to me to have your support, that you and I can become friends over time, that you know that I love and care for your daughter, um, that you ask me any questions you wanna ask me, um, but that we're on the same team.

• 40:56Dr. John Delony?

  And I can't choose if you wanna be on the same team as me. I can't choose if you like me. Um, but I want you to know that I wanna honor your relationship with your daughter. And I would be as direct, just one grown man to another grown man. And again, not the, can I have her hand? Cause she's not property, right? Um, she's not his to quote unquote giveaway. Um, but there is a, hey, we're joining families here. And Grace, I would go take your mom out and say, Mom, this looks like this is happening. Um, we want you on board and also we know that, and by the way, this can't happen in text. This can't happen on the phone. You need to do this in person. Um, we want you side by side. And what you said last time really hurt him, hurt him bad. And, um, you don't have to join us in this, but man, we don't wanna do life without you.

• 41:40Dr. John Delony?

  And family will be family, will be family. And it might be that we're in different towns, in different states for a season, or we might be overseas for a season, who knows? But y'all are always gonna be our family. It's just gonna look differently. And I would give them a chance and have that conversation, that direct conversation. I wish you guys the absolute, absolute best. Hang on the line. I'm gonna give y'all a couple of tickets to the October Money and Marriage that's coming up. We have one, we had one in Valentine's Day that was just off the charts. The best thing I'm a part of. But we're gonna do it again in October and I'd like to invite you two to come join us by that time. If you want to do your, just go ahead and do your wedding at Money and Marriage. That would be even doper. All right. Thank y'all so much for the call. We'll be right back.

• 42:26Dr. John Delony?

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• 43:08Dr. John Delony?

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• 43:52Dr. John Delony?

  That's join, J-O-I-N. Joindelete.me/daloney. All right, let's go out to Atlanta, Georgia, home of the Braves that ruined my childhood because they had all those great pitchers. Talk to Emily. Hey Emily, what's up?

• 44:07Speaker 04

  Hey, um, yeah, so I just have a question. Um, my husband grew up in a very abusive family. Um, and it just really makes me mad, the stories and some of the mess we've been dealing with now. Um, but I really just wanna be able to look past that, forgive them, and just kinda pretend none of that has happened.

• 44:32Dr. John Delony?

  And I want dragons to be real, and I want four million dollars.

• 44:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, pretty much.

• 44:41Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 44:42Speaker 04

  So, pretty much a compromise between

• 44:44Dr. John Delony?

  There's no compromise.

• 44:45Speaker 04

  ...sounding me, and, yeah.

• 44:47Dr. John Delony?

  Um, so when you said dealing with the mess now, um, what has emerged, um, since y'all got married?

• 44:54Speaker 04

  Um, just like all the mother-in-law stereotypes, times 10, pretty much. But, uh, it's interesting thing, she actually passed away this last year, so a lot of that ended, of course, um, still some through his dad, but I'm finding myself just incredibly angry with someone who's dead, and that does absolutely no good at all.

• 45:20Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, but it's still real.

• 45:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 45:23Dr. John Delony?

  Anger is a good emotion. It points us towards something that we really care about that shouldn't be the way it is.

• 45:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 45:28Dr. John Delony?

  It's when, it's when we meditate and ruminate on it. How often do you have imaginary conversations with her where you just let her have it?

• 45:36Speaker 04

  Uh, mm, okay. It goes through seasons.

• 45:40Dr. John Delony?

  There you go.

• 45:41Speaker 04

  So, I'll have a few days where, you know, I'm good, and everything's cool, something will happen, and then it will just be like, it all comes rushing in, lingers for a few days after that, a few days I'm cool. It's a cycle.

• 45:54Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 45:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's a cycle.

• 45:56Dr. John Delony?

  You've probably heard this, um, forgiveness is for you.

• 45:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:00Dr. John Delony?

  And it's a decision to no longer let her, this person who just hurt your, your, the man that you love more than anybody else in the world, who hurt him over and over and over and over, and didn't protect him from other people hurting him.

• 46:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 46:19Dr. John Delony?

  Um, it's a decision to no longer let her hurt him and hurt you.

• 46:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, you know, it's true. I think so, um, growing up, I was always taught forgive and forget, forgive and forget.

• 46:34Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, whoever says that's, that's moronic. That's just like a dumb church trope or something they like stitch on a pillow at home, at like Home Goods, right? Like, you can't forget. It is.

• 46:46Speaker 04

  It's so true. So like, for a long time in our marriage, I wrestled with the whole, but if I forgive her, I'm opening myself back up to her. But I don't want to open myself back up to her because that's painful and it's terrible and it hurts. But I also know I should forgive her, but I don't want to get hurt, but I should forgive like that.

• 47:06Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, okay. I'm glad you're bringing this up. So forgiveness does not mean I have to hang out with you ever again. Forgiveness doesn't mean I have to talk to you, I have to engage with you. Forgiveness doesn't mean anything like that. Forgiveness simply means, think of what happened like a cinder block.

• 47:24Speaker 04

  Uh huh.

• 47:25Dr. John Delony?

  All the trauma. What did she, what, give me some examples of stuff she did to him? And his dad?

• 47:30Speaker 04

  Um, okay. So just like excessive beatings in the name of discipline to the point where my husband would blackout. Um, they would spank him on the head. So, uh, yeah, like, uh, he has seizures and his neurologist thinks it was from all of the head trauma as a child.

• 47:53Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Do you have your own kids?

• 47:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 47:57Dr. John Delony?

  How old are they?

• 47:58Speaker 04

  Uh, four and one.

• 48:03Dr. John Delony?

  And do you ever have a moment with your four-year-old where you just look at him? Those like four-year-olds are kind of the best because they're over that, people say terrible twos, I think three's way worse. But they have that, they have, they have the fours where they're able to go, go to the bathroom by themselves, but their eyes are still wide with wonder. And if you get, you have those occasional moments when you look and think, how could anyone hit?

• 48:28Speaker 04

  Exactly. Especially a parent. Like, my job is to like, pull out and beat up anyone that would do that to him, not do it to him. So, yeah.

• 48:42Dr. John Delony?

  Who in your life, um, didn't show up for you?

• 48:48Speaker 04

  Um, well, my immediate family is awesome.

• 48:51Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 48:51Speaker 04

  So they're all great. Um, so like I grew up in a church and it was, um, the church I grew up in, like, we had a man that was like our youth pastor, principal, all of those things. And, uh, he was honestly a jerk. So I guess that could be one where

• 49:10Dr. John Delony?

  What does that mean?

• 49:11Speaker 04

  He's supposed to actually be like-

• 49:12Dr. John Delony?

  A jerk, like he was inappropriate with the young women in the, in the group? A jerk, like he swore at you and gave you bad theology?

• 49:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, that too. So-

• 49:21Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, hold on, hold on.

• 49:22Speaker 04

  Hyper, hyper controlling.

• 49:24Dr. John Delony?

  He's not a jerk.

• 49:26Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 49:26Dr. John Delony?

  He's an absolute child predator. He's a scumbag.

• 49:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. He was, um, he was a major flirt and used his control in all sorts of crazy ways. And, uh, he would flirt with the teenage girls, um, and then also like at the same time, get on them for not, uh, not being feminine enough. That was one thing. Cause, uh, I didn't wear enough dresses. So he, uh, got on me for that while at the same time flirting with me.

• 49:57Dr. John Delony?

  That's right.

• 49:57Speaker 04

  So yeah, that, that's probably the most, uh, person who let me down in my life, I would say.

• 50:02Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. They didn't let you down. They abused you too.

• 50:06Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah, I guess you could say that too.

• 50:08Dr. John Delony?

  They used you too. Now, listen to me. This is where this gets terrifying. In a home with great parents who don't know this is going on. And I'm not letting them off the hook because I think the whole youth ministry thing is its own catastrophe. But that's a whole other thing.

• 50:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:26Dr. John Delony?

  When you're a 13-year-old girl and you have a guy with spiritual authority over you, who is both, you know it, he knows it, everybody can feel the sexual tension that he is putting on a child. And at the same time, telling you to get more sexy. And at the same time, telling you, if you make, quote unquote, "make a grown man" feel these ways, that you somehow are, right, are responsible for his, all that nonsense.

• 50:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 50:57Dr. John Delony?

  As a 12-year-old, as a 13-year-old, as a 19-year-old, as a 25-year-old.

• 51:04Dr. John Delony?

  You learn really young, "I gotta bury this because I'm gonna end up killing somebody."

• 51:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 51:11Dr. John Delony?

  So what I don't want you to do is be led by that power, that 12-year-old girl who's totally powerless.

• 51:20Dr. John Delony?

  And now that you have bigger muscles, right, you're bigger and you don't put up with that crap anymore,

• 51:28Dr. John Delony?

  that you're gonna try to exorcise that demon with this dead mother-in-law.

• 51:33Speaker 04

  Uh huh. Okay.

• 51:38Dr. John Delony?

  And my guess is you're being, um, you're telling me only some of it.

• 51:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, the, if I told you everything, we'd be here for hours and hours and hours. So it's kinda like, yeah, yeah.

• 51:53Dr. John Delony?

  So you have a sense of justice inside your heart and your chest that I think is so good and right.

• 52:00Dr. John Delony?

  But that sense of justice also comes because you had to protect yourself because no one else would. No one else did.

• 52:09Dr. John Delony?

  And so, in a strange, awful way,

• 52:15Dr. John Delony?

  that scumbag, piece of crap, child molesting youth minister,

• 52:21Dr. John Delony?

  and the abusive mother who beat your husband into unconsciousness when he was a young kid,

• 52:31Dr. John Delony?

  both of them, every single day, have a seat at your dinner table.

• 52:36Speaker 04

  Yeah. They're still here with me, even though they're not with me.

• 52:40Dr. John Delony?

  That's right.

• 52:41Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 52:43Dr. John Delony?

  And so that's when you knock, that's when you knock on the door to a trauma therapist and say, "I need to let two people go." And if that guy is still working with young people, then it's time to make, make that, put that call in.

• 52:56Speaker 04

  He's actually the pastor now.

• 52:57Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I would make that call. But that's just me, that's easy for me to do, and I'm a big, humongous, six-foot-two, Texas male, so it's easy for me to say. I'm not gonna tell you what to do, but if he still has access to kids and to other people of influence, then, I want those people gone. I want them out of churches. I want them gone, gone, gone, gone, gone.

• 53:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, so um, I guess, you know, my mother-in-law's passed away, but

• 53:25Dr. John Delony?

  Have you written her a letter?

• 53:26Speaker 04

  My father-in-law isn't.

• 53:27Dr. John Delony?

  I don't, your father-in-law didn't get a vote. Your father-in-law shouldn't be in your home, your father-in-law shouldn't be like at holidays. Father-in-law cashed out.

• 53:37Speaker 04

  Okay, yeah, there's definitely still a relationship there, which is, yeah.

• 53:42Dr. John Delony?

  Your husband's a grown man, but at some point, you're trying to prop up a fantasy. If those kids need a grandad, no, they don't need that one.

• 53:51Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah, no, I get it. I think something, growing up with like a very religious background is almost grace for everyone else except for yourself.

• 54:04Dr. John Delony?

  That's right.

• 54:05Speaker 04

  So um, you know, grace for him and I know something my husband's wrestled with. What is, is that kind? Is it right to, he's, he's in a much better place now, but for years, you know, we were entertaining them, having them in our house and while also kind of taking a beating verbally, not physically at that point, but a verbal beating for doing it.

• 54:33Dr. John Delony?

  So I want you and your husband to wipe the table clean. I want you to like, and I, I say this like kind of joking, but it helps, like in a, it, it helps to have the physical act, okay?

• 54:45Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 54:46Dr. John Delony?

  I want you to get a whole bunch of kids' toys. I want you to send your kids out to a babysitter's house. I want you to get a whole bunch of kids' toys and, and I say that just because they're, if you break them, that's okay. I don't want you to pile them up on the kitchen table. I don't want you to sit on one side and your husband to sit on the other. And I want both of you in one fell swooped act to swipe the table completely clean.

• 55:07Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 55:08Dr. John Delony?

  And it's a symbol. It's an act. It's like a wedding or a funeral. It's a, it's a, it's an act between the two of you. We are clearing the table. And I want you to hear everything crash on the floor. I want you, there to be a mess on the floor. I want it all to just fall. All that.

• 55:24Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 55:25Dr. John Delony?

  And then I want you to look at each other and say, you and I get to decide.

• 55:30Dr. John Delony?

  How we feel inside this house moving forward.

• 55:34Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 55:35Dr. John Delony?

  What do we want that to feel like?

• 55:38Speaker 04

  A sanctuary, where no one who's not going to promote that feeling and that safety, no one comes in.

• 55:45Dr. John Delony?

  That's right. And if you're not being honest with your husband about that, then you start keeping secrets and then he feels a distance from you and then he tries to solve, you see what I'm saying? It just creates this hole.

• 55:54Speaker 04

  Uh huh.

• 55:55Dr. John Delony?

  Um, and let me just free you from some things. Grace does not mean, grace means I forgive you, grace means go be well. That does not mean you get to have access back into my house.

• 56:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's two different things.

• 56:12Dr. John Delony?

  It's two completely different things. Forgiveness is not for them, it's for you.

• 56:16Speaker 04

  Yeah. So I can stop having these conversations in my head.

• 56:20Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, because your body doesn't know the difference. Your body thinks every time you spin up one of those conversations that mom's at the door again.

• 56:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 56:28Dr. John Delony?

  And I want you to write a letter and I want you to ask your husband to write a letter to mom. Y'all read it to each other.

• 56:37Dr. John Delony?

  And you go outside and put them in the brio and put them in the fire pit and let it be done.

• 56:42Dr. John Delony?

  Like I'm gonna write, I'm gonna say the things I need to say one last time and then go and move on.

• 56:48Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 56:49Dr. John Delony?

  Because if your faith is, is what you believe it to be, she's getting hers, right?

• 56:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 56:54Dr. John Delony?

  Let it go. Cause I'm not, I'm not either that, or I want you to take the extra step of framing a picture of her and just bringing it to the dinner table every night. Just sit it right, make, make her a seat at the table, because that's what y'all are doing.

• 57:08Speaker 04

  It's, it's very true, because I just, I want to be able to focus on my kids, focus on my husband.

• 57:14Dr. John Delony?

  That's not, that's not true.

• 57:15Speaker 04

  And not be.

• 57:16Dr. John Delony?

  You don't want that.

• 57:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 57:17Dr. John Delony?

  You want to want that.

• 57:18Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 57:19Dr. John Delony?

  What you really want is

• 57:20Speaker 04

  That's true.

• 57:20Dr. John Delony?

  To go vindicate your husband with his parents, because nobody vindicated for you.

• 57:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, I want, uh, sometimes it irritates me that she's dead and justice never happened.

• 57:33Dr. John Delony?

  That's right.

• 57:35Speaker 04

  So, yeah.

• 57:36Dr. John Delony?

  And I know you've got a lot of religious trauma baggage, but do you still, are you still a person of faith?

• 57:42Speaker 04

  I am, it just looks a lot different now than it did growing up.

• 57:45Dr. John Delony?

  As it, as it should for all of us.

• 57:46Speaker 04

  Still in church, but

• 57:47Dr. John Delony?

  As it should for all of us. But

• 57:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 57:50Dr. John Delony?

  Then, um, whatever your, your faith background is, justice is being served, fair?

• 57:57Speaker 04

  Uh, I'm not sure I understand how, like, how is it being, oh, yeah.

• 58:06Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, there you go. And can I tell you, can I tell you the greatest middle finger?

• 58:12Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:16Speaker 04

  What?

• 58:16Dr. John Delony?

  Y'all go raise amazing kids.

• 58:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 58:20Dr. John Delony?

  That have no idea

• 58:24Dr. John Delony?

  of what it feels like to have parents that, that don't go to, don't go to war for their kids.

• 58:30Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm. Very true.

• 58:33Dr. John Delony?

  Raise kids that know they can always come home no matter what they do. Raise kids that fully understand, I'm not going to outsource your spiritual life to some 22-year-old kid.

• 58:44Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:45Dr. John Delony?

  Raise kids who know if you spill the milk in the house, we're gonna laugh. You gotta pick, you gotta clean it up, but we're gonna laugh about it.

• 58:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 58:55Dr. John Delony?

  Raise those kids. That's the biggest middle finger. I'm gonna change my family tree. That's the greatest rebellion. Is, is joy, kindness.

• 59:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 59:06Dr. John Delony?

  And here's what, here's what healing is. Forgive and forget is bullcrap. It's not real, it's not true. It's just, it's a, it's a, it's a dangerous trope.

• 59:15Dr. John Delony?

  Healing is, when I think about it happening, my body doesn't respond as though mother-in-law's banging on the door to come in.

• 59:24Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 59:24Dr. John Delony?

  That's what.

• 59:25Speaker 04

  I can just, when it comes to my mind, just be like, okay, that's done, and then move on.

• 59:29Dr. John Delony?

  You can just think, ah, sick, poor woman, and you go on about your day, because she doesn't get to impact how you deal with your kids. She doesn't get to impact the way you love your husband. And every time your husband has a seizure, I'm not giving her that.

• 59:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, because that's one of those things where, when that happens, I then, for days, am, yeah, thinking this wouldn't be happening to us if it weren't for her.

• 59:49Dr. John Delony?

  And that's a way that you don't deal with the reality that you married an amazing guy who also has seizures. Let's just deal with that.

• 59:56Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 59:58Dr. John Delony?

  And by the way, this, I'm making it sound easy. It took me about 10 years to get here, and I still have, I still have days, right? It's not, it's not like it just all goes away, but this is the work.

• 1:00:09Dr. John Delony?

  This is the, this is the work. And so at the same time, um, after you and your husband read the letters that y'all write to, to each other. So here's what I want you to do, the table swiping exercise. I want you to each come to the table with five or 10 things that you want your house to feel like. And then y'all are going to talk about how we can do this. Oh, if that's the case, then dad can't ever come over here anymore. Yep. If that's the case, we're not, we're doing Christmas in a small like state park. Cause that's all we can afford, but we're not doing it with the whole family again. Yep. I want y'all to do that exercise, swipe the table clean. And then I want you to write that letter to mom and be done with her. Or frame a picture of her and put her at the kitchen table and start making her a seat. Cause that's where she is anyway. The second thing I want you to do is I want y'all both to write a letter to your kids,

• 1:00:54Dr. John Delony?

  dear kids, for when they are 21 and 25, I think is what you said. Here's the work we did for y'all.

• 1:01:06Dr. John Delony?

  And I want you to read that letter to each other. It's a commitment letter for you and your husband to each other. That we're now moving forward. We're not going to continue to look back, look back, look back. He's got some healing to do, by the way. He's go see a trauma counselor. You need to go see a trauma counselor. You need to consider talking to somebody who in, in authority. If this pastor still has access to kids.

• 1:01:28Dr. John Delony?

  And God, I hope, ah dude, few things get me more raged out than that.

• 1:01:37Dr. John Delony?

  But we're going to start moving forward. I'm gonna set the bricks down. If you want to, it's an exercise I've given a lot of people and it's, it's astonishing how successful they tell me it's been. Go to Home Depot or Lowe's and buy a cinder block and put a piece of duct tape on it and write your mother in law's name on it. And just carry it around your house for a while. Carry it around your house, carry it around in your backyard. Just keep carrying it and carrying it until your hands feel like they're on fire and they're going to burst. And then you throw it down in the backyard or go throw it down in the woods somewhere. Tear off the duct tape, throw it in the trash and say out loud, I'm never carrying your sins again. I'm not carrying your abuse anymore. I'm done.

• 1:02:19Dr. John Delony?

  And there's a physical act that you can always point back to. So whenever your body spins up, you can go, no, no, no, I set that down. I set that one down. And that is the path out of victimhood. It's the path to freedom. Thanks for the call, Emily. Super, super grateful for you. We'll be right back. All right, let's talk about Hallow, the number one prayer and meditation app in the world. It's officially Lent. We're right in the middle of it. Lent is the 40 days leading up to Good Friday and Easter. And it's when Christians all over the world commit to a season of fasting from all sorts of things, and they commit themselves to reconnection and remembering, prayer, and meditation. Right now, Hallow has a challenge going on called The Way. It's

• 1:03:01Dr. John Delony?

  meant to reflect living the way of Jesus, and that means doing hard things that lead to peace, joy, and healing. Throughout The Way, you'll hear some incredible stories from people like Jonathan Rumi of The Chosen, Chris Pratt, and Mark Wahlberg, and you'll be invited to participate in experiencing life change yourself. Plus, you can check out Hallow's Lent Challenge for Kids called The Little Way. It's a fun, meaningful adventure for the whole family, as y'all will follow along with two kids learning to live out gratitude every day. And this is just a tiny bit of what Hallow offers. Hallow has an enormous catalog of music, guided prayers, meditations, and more. And when you sign up at hallow.com/deloney, you'll get three months for free, and that means you're covered all through Lent and

• 1:03:44Dr. John Delony?

  beyond. Go check out Hallow at hallow.com/deloney. That's H-A-L-L-O-W.com/deloney for three months for free. All right, we're back. Here's a question from the Money and Marriage Weekend Getaway, the marriage retreat that me and my friend Rachel Cruz put on. That is, I'm kind of biased, but it's the best marriage retreat in the world. Here's the question. How do you combine finances but still have your own bank accounts? We were both previously married to spenders who kept us broke and in debt. So I am a 100%

• 1:04:26Dr. John Delony?

  all the time, always. That's not true. I always say stuff like that, and then I immediately think of like an exception.

• 1:04:35Dr. John Delony?

  Married couples should combine finances unless there is abuse

• 1:04:41Dr. John Delony?

  or infidelity, like financial infidelity. But married couples should have one checking account that they both live out of. And it's astonishing to me how many people make humans, make humans.

• 1:04:55Dr. John Delony?

  They share their DNA, but they don't share bank accounts. That's my money. That's his money. My friend George tells some, I got some great jokes about like, dude, if you Venmo your wife for the light bill, your marriage is in trouble. If you, if you're like, no, no, no, you get the, you get dinner tonight and I'll get the, the water bill. Your marriage is in trouble because you're operating on two different spheres. Your roommates, your roommates.

• 1:05:20Dr. John Delony?

  Married couples should share finances and there's a reality that if money was used as a way to keep you down, if money was, if somebody exerted power over you in a previous relationship by they kept all the money. You didn't know where it was. They wouldn't let you pay. They took out credit cards, you name it. Man, that trauma is real. It's scary.

• 1:05:40Dr. John Delony?

  But if you get remarried, but you each have one foot out of the boat,

• 1:05:47Dr. John Delony?

  that's where you get those statistics that the statistically, it's, you're statistically more likely to fail in a second marriage too. And it makes sense, but most people don't go all the way in the boat. If you get married again, you have to risk getting hurt again. And that means you have to risk

• 1:06:05Dr. John Delony?

  sharing bank accounts again. You can't get remarried and only go partway.

• 1:06:10Dr. John Delony?

  And so what, how do you do this? You sit down and you're very honest. Here's what happened to me. What happened to you? Let's come up with some things that must be true for us. Like these are ways that we can establish trust when it comes to finances. Um, this isn't a pitch. I love the EveryDollar app because, um, both me and my wife have it. When I spend something, it shows up on her phone. There's no hiding. There's no like, oh, secrets. There's just not, just not.

• 1:06:35Dr. John Delony?

  And it keeps you on the same page. And if you're talking about your money, then you're probably talking about your calendar. And if you're talking about your calendar, you're probably talking about, hey, who's picking up? Who and how are we doing this? And let's put sex on the calendar and when's parents coming? It just keeps you completely aligned and connected moving forward. So this is like the conversation about past relationship hurts. Those are, those are traffic signals of conversations you need to head towards. You gotta head into those things, not around them, not around them. So, um, how do you combine finances? You get one checking account and you say, I'm all in. Are you all in? And here's what must be true.

• 1:07:15Dr. John Delony?

  I wish it was, I wish it was like more complicated than that, but it's not. It's people being honest. Whoa, I'm starting to feel, I'm starting to feel, ah, I'm starting to get feel. Be honest, be honest, be honest, be honest. And then you'll act in accordance together.

• 1:07:29Dr. John Delony?

  Y'all have a great day. Love you guys. Like and subscribe. Peace.