Kyle Conner - Out of Spec Studios

Kyle Conner is an automotive journalist and YouTuber who specializes in the EV space. His knowledge and videos about EV drives, their track performance, charging infrastructure, range, battery and charger technology, and emerging OEMs, is second to none. Kyle educates us on why the Tesla superchargers aren't that fast (for some cars); Rivian's new outpost; why a two-motor is better than a four; how many things have been fixed on his Tesla Cybertruck (and why he still loves it); the crazy deals on the Fiat 500e; what it was like driving some of China's newest EVs; the depreciation problem; electric G-Wagens; and more! Recorded December 16, 2024 https://outofspecstudios.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecReviews https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecMotoring Exclusive $35-off Carver Mat at https://www. AuraFrames.com. Use code TIRE at checkout to save! Go to https://www. NordVPN.com/tst and use code TST to get a 2-year plan plus 4 additional months with a huge discount. New merch! Grab a shirt or hoodie and support us! https://thesmokingtireshop.com/ Use Off The Record! and ALWAYS fight your tickets! Enter code TSTPOD for a 10% discount on your first case on the Off The Record app, or go to https://www.offtherecord.com/TST Want your question answered? Want to watch the live stream, get ad-free podcasts, or exclusive podcasts? Join our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thesmokingtirepodcast Tweet at us! https://www. Twitter.com/thesmokingtire https://www. Twitter.com/zackklapman Instagram: https://www. Instagram.com/thesmokingtire https://www. Instagram.com/therealzackklapman

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Matt Farah?

  Up everybody, welcome to the Smoke and Tire Podcast. This episode, like all of them, brought to you by Off the Record. We love Off the Record. I got three more emails this week from people who used Off the Record to save their little backsides in a court of law. Off the Record is a service that, were you to get a moving violation, big or small, connects you with an attorney in the jurisdiction where you got that ticket. Then, they go to work on your behalf and they do everything they can to get those points off your record, or not on it in the first place, really. Uh, man, they cover almost all of the US and they have an unbelievable track record of

• 0:43Matt Farah?

  getting people out of little sticky situations with their cars. Download the app and use code TSTPOD for 10% off all legal services with Off the Record. And if you prefer the web, go to offtherecord.com/TST. You'll get that same 10% off all legal services booked through Off the Record. Don't plead guilty. This, in fact, I swear, I've used Off the Record a whole bunch of times. I swear, it is easier, faster, more efficient, and cheaper, and with much better outcomes to use Off the Record than just to plead guilty.

• 1:25Matt Farah?

  It's, it's, all of, everything about getting a ticket is improved with Off the Record. Use code TSTPOD on the app, or offtherecord.com/TST on the web. We love you Off the Record. Thank you for sponsoring our little program here. All right, on this episode, Kyle Connor is in studio. Do I know what we're gonna talk about? Not exactly, cuz I'm recording this before he got here. But I'm guessing it's all the weird Chinese cars he's been driving, that huge multi-car EV cannonball he did, uh, the state of the conversion to Tesla charge ports, full self-driving, and, uh, things of that nature. We love Kyle. He drives a lot of things. He has

• 2:10Matt Farah?

  Like 74 YouTube channels and counting and he's here in town visiting us. So Kyle Connor of out of spec. Everything on the smoking tire podcast. Zach, tell me when we exist, please we exist. I want to dive right in. How stupid is that plug holder on the back of the G wagon?

• 2:30Speaker 01

  Dude, that is the dumbest.

• 2:32Matt Farah?

  Extremely the dumbest.

• 2:34Speaker 01

  Why didn't they just put a, you can option a spare tire, but.

• 2:36Matt Farah?

  Can you?

• 2:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:37Matt Farah?

  Why don't they just all have that?

• 2:39Speaker 01

  And I can't, it's one way or another, but on the electric G, you can either the like series ones that are not the press ones. Get the spare tire only, or the charger only, like right now there's a production issue where you can only get one of the two.

• 2:54Matt Farah?

  Oh, oh, oh, well, I hope it, I mean.

• 2:58Matt Farah?

  I just looking out the window when I went to get my J and T. Uh, that's James May and tonic. We're drinking the blood of, the blood of Christ on the rocks.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  Really good, by the way.

• 3:10Matt Farah?

  It is good, right? I looked down at your electric G wagon press car and I saw the, the, the square on the back, the iPod, uh, the AirPods holder. And went. Uh, and had a little shudder.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  Yep, we all hate it. So I've shown everyone how useless it is.

• 3:26Matt Farah?

  And. That's really the only bad thing about that car, though.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  Oh, isn't it? It's amazing.

• 3:32Matt Farah?

  The rest of it, pretty goddamn good.

• 3:36Speaker 01

  I can't go anywhere without spinning around doing the G turns.

• 3:39Matt Farah?

  Are you doing it on dry tarmac?

• 3:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe.

• 3:42Matt Farah?

  We were told, we were told explicitly to not do it on dry tarmac.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  I was given zero instructions.

• 3:48Matt Farah?

  Great, fortunately for us, it pissed rain one day and we had, we had a parking lot. That was so wet, it looked like the Hollywood, like the water truck had come in like the Twin Pines Mall and Back to the Future. And fucking wet that bitch down in a fucking September, California.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  Isn't that the weirdest sensation, though, to spin around at very high speed, like you're moving?

• 4:10Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  And I did it in a parking garage and it, you know, the echoing off the walls and it just sounded like a disaster. It was amazing.

• 4:17Matt Farah?

  It is a particularly delightful.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's very like, you know, typical German engineering, solve electrical problems with mechanical solutions.

• 4:26Matt Farah?

  Right.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  Four transfer cases, four low ranges for each motor, or I mean, one for each.

• 4:30Matt Farah?

  This is the simplest solution.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 4:33Matt Farah?

  You could not think of a simpler way to do it.

• 4:34Speaker 01

  One of the battery guys was a viewer and messaged me on Twitter and was like, "We designed this thing to run top speed down the autobahn and fast charged for its entire life."

• 4:43Matt Farah?

  So, that's

• 4:46Matt Farah?

  an interesting thing, and I kinda wanna circle back to that in a minute, because there was a study that came out that said, "We've been testing batteries wrong, and so they're all gonna last longer than we thought they were," which is good, actually.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  That's what we're seeing.

• 4:58Matt Farah?

  Usually when someone says, "There's a study that came out," it's like, "Here's how you're gonna die."

• 5:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  Never good results.

• 5:05Matt Farah?

  Yeah, yeah, no, it's almost always something bad. It's not like, "Hey, we were like, we undercounted this." You believe that?

• 5:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, uh, if you wanna dive into degradation...

• 5:16Matt Farah?

  No, wait, let's finish the electric G-Wagon.

• 5:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 5:18Matt Farah?

  It's a, I think, that it's not only my favorite G-Wagon, but it's the only appealing electric Mercedes at all.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  So, I just, uh, was driving, I drove the six-cylinder G.

• 5:31Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  For a while, and I was like, eh.

• 5:34Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 5:34Speaker 01

  It's fine. For 99% of G owners, who cares? It's a box on wheels and it's gonna look the part, does the thing. I just couldn't get, I couldn't go with the six-cylinder personally. I would like G63 all day, or electric G, which rocks. So, it's really inefficient.

• 5:50Matt Farah?

  Yes.

• 5:51Speaker 01

  It's like, 1.9 miles per kilowatt hour, if I'm being gentle on it.

• 5:55Matt Farah?

  Yeah, it's not, it's bad, it's really bad.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:57Matt Farah?

  And when it's fully charged, the gauge is very optimistic. The gauge thinks you're gonna, can do 260 or 270.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  It's a 200-mile car.

• 6:04Matt Farah?

  If you're gentle.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, if you're in LA traffic, just bombing around the city, like, I left Pasadena this morning at 90%, went to Irvine, and came here, and it's at like, 45.

• 6:14Matt Farah?

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  And that's not much driving.

• 6:16Matt Farah?

  That's not a lot. When I took it off-roading, uh, the, the base of the trail is about 54 miles from my house. And I left my house with 100%, and I got to the base of the Trail at sixty six.

• 6:33Matt Farah?

  It it it is, but it's it was like, whoa.

• 6:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, the speed really affects it because, you know, its its CDA value is is abysmal. But it's a hundred sixteen kilowatt hours. So it's like it's for people out there. It's like a Cybertruck.

• 6:47Matt Farah?

  It's a huge battery.

• 6:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's over a hundred kilowatt hours.

• 6:50Matt Farah?

  Which is amazing, like, from the outside, it's like, where'd you put it?

• 6:55Speaker 01

  What? Exactly.

• 6:56Matt Farah?

  You can't really tell.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  It it's just like a normal G-Wang. It drives so nice. The G-Roar actually isn't annoying.

• 7:01Matt Farah?

  I completely disagree. It was very annoying and very stupid. Imagine a G sixty three connected to a Subaru Outback CBT. That is not a good sound.

• 7:13Speaker 01

  No, it's.

• 7:13Matt Farah?

  And it's called G-Roar.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 7:16Matt Farah?

  What? Nobody, why? Like, you have, you do.

• 7:20Speaker 02

  Sings for Galando Roar. That's why.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  That solves everything.

• 7:23Matt Farah?

  Yeah, actually, Galan. It's Galan de Vau.

• 7:28Matt Farah?

  It's not good.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  No, so I'm typically against EV sounds ninety nine percent of the time, except for the five N, which was cool.

• 7:36Matt Farah?

  Yeah, which serves a serves a function.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, that that cured the boredom and was interesting on track, although it slows you down. So I don't know. And then this was cool with music ripping. And if you just go wide open, it sounds like there's something happening. I agree. I've turned it off. I'm I'm an EV guy, so I like the silent experience.

• 7:55Matt Farah?

  It's not just it's it's it's not just that it's silent. It's that almost all of these quotes soundtracks are heinously bad, which, when you consider. I mean, it's like it's like cars versus phones, like cars touchscreens are heinously bad when you consider what we can do with even the shittiest phone.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 8:17Matt Farah?

  And the car sounds are heinously bad when you consider what even the most basic video game gets away with.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  You're absolutely right. I just drove that Dodge Charger, which we want to talk about.

• 8:29Matt Farah?

  That has an even dumber name for its sound. What's it called?

• 8:32Speaker 01

  Frat Sonic, something, some bullshit. It was the worst thing I've ever driven all year. It was a terrible.

• 8:38Matt Farah?

  This it's Nate and things like that are. Why people are like, well, AI can't be worse than this. It's like if when that's what we're doing. Yes, give it to the fucking robots.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  So that was like the sound in that one was like, imagine those old like three speed auto, you know, sitting on torque converter like 1984 eight point whatever liter V8. And it won't rev past like 3000 RPM. So you're on a back road and I'm like, how is this engaging? Anyway, the G-Raw.

• 9:05Matt Farah?

  It's called idle sim. It idles all the time.

• 9:09Speaker 01

  It's cool at low speed like that worked out really pretty well, but like not while moving. This is cool though. So what what I didn't realize until today was that the front motors disconnect while cruising. You can't.

• 9:21Matt Farah?

  Oh, right.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  Can't really feel it, but it doesn't have a clutch disconnect. It uses the reduction gearbox to physically disconnect the front motors.

• 9:29Matt Farah?

  Oh, I didn't know that.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  And I'm like, wow, that's great integration, actually. So anyway, I I love it.

• 9:33Matt Farah?

  It's executed extremely well, but then also like, yeah, it's still really inefficient, but at least but it is. It is very pleasant. And the only thing that I that I actually really that kind of bothered me about it, other than the AirPods case on the back, which is so off roading was so stressful with no spare tire.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:52Matt Farah?

  Especially on is your this one looks like it's on the same like whatever tires.

• 9:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's on the whatever EV tire thing.

• 9:58Matt Farah?

  So very much recommend like a minus 10, not minus 15.

• 10:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, we'll we'll air it down. I took it off roading and I didn't air it down only because it was just a short trail to get to a thing. And I was like, like avoiding every pointy rock.

• 10:13Matt Farah?

  It made a difference. We could really, we could feel the difference and I my stress level about blowing a tire. You know, Johnny blew a tire.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know.

• 10:20Matt Farah?

  While offering.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  And he had a hitchhiker something.

• 10:22Matt Farah?

  Stranded out.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  That was the first thing I posted this and he texted me and he's like, bro, don't go off road without a spare.

• 10:28Matt Farah?

  Although it actually would have been kind of sick to get stranded because as we came down the mountain, we saw over on the right where Johnny had to ditch his car. There was like two Raptors on like big tires and a Hummer EV. And I'm like, damn, like someone like Rico Suave is out here playing. And later in the day I saw it's fucking, it was Danny Ricardo and like, uh, uh, some other, uh, uh, Jesus Christ.

• 10:58Matt Farah?

  Uh, another comedian and a musician like they were all fucking riding, just riding dirt bikes out there. I get stranded with them guys, it'll be alright.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  That's cool.

• 11:08Matt Farah?

  Danny, I'll take a ride home from Danny Ricardo.

• 11:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, so G's cool. It's a very, very, does all the G stuff you want it to do. Um, yeah, taking it out to the desert tomorrow, which will be fun.

• 11:19Matt Farah?

  Yeah, so you said you're going to Joshua Tree.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:23Matt Farah?

  That's, you know, it's far.

• 11:24Speaker 01

  It's like three hours.

• 11:24Matt Farah?

  It's really far.

• 11:25Speaker 01

  It's, that's not far.

• 11:26Matt Farah?

  I guess for you, that's not far. For a regular person, that's really far.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah, I don't, I don't mind it. It's on this side of the planet.

• 11:33Matt Farah?

  Uh, but you said you were going specifically to test Rivian's charging stations.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, Rivian built what they're calling an outpost. It's their first ever one. And it's like this experience thing while charging in the middle of whatever.

• 11:46Matt Farah?

  It's like a cowboy saloon themed.

• 11:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And they're gonna build a bunch of these.

• 11:52Matt Farah?

  Rivian, everything they do is, look, it is like that.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:55Matt Farah?

  Everything Rivian does is fucking themed.

• 11:57Speaker 01

  I know. I, I love it. I really love it.

• 12:00Matt Farah?

  Cars, but god damn, are they hokey sometimes.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're hokey. I, it's, you know what this is? This is YouTube gold for me.

• 12:06Matt Farah?

  Holy shit, that looks like a, in the inside, it looks like a goop store.

• 12:12Speaker 01

  All, all I see is great YouTube video in the middle of nowhere. And I can't wait to go and film it.

• 12:19Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 12:19Speaker 01

  And it's the first Rivian station that was open to all cars.

• 12:22Matt Farah?

  Okay.

• 12:23Speaker 01

  So that's kinda cool. They have a new dispenser.

• 12:25Matt Farah?

  They have three fifties?

• 12:27Speaker 01

  Uh, they are three hundred kilowatt max output.

• 12:29Matt Farah?

  Oh, I haven't seen a three hundred yet.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  Maybe three fifty. I, that's what I'll find out tomorrow. It's a slightly adapted thing.

• 12:36Matt Farah?

  Enjoy a complimentary cup from Joshua. Free coffee's good. Purchase some trail mix.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  Oh, purchase snacks. Don't you, they're not giving away snacks.

• 12:44Matt Farah?

  Twenty-four hour restroom, you'll find the code in the Rivian app. So you may be able to charge your non-Rivian, but if you wanna take a shit, you better be writing a check to Rivian Financial, baby.

• 12:56Speaker 01

  R1S owners only.

• 13:00Speaker 02

  That's what the S stands for.

• 13:03Matt Farah?

  There's gonna be an asterisk next year that like, uh, our three owners are not count, it'll count.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  That's, it, you know what, perks come with the higher spec models.

• 13:12Matt Farah?

  I mean, look, I, I'm joking, it does look nice, but it's also very thematic.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  It's perfect for YouTube, baby. I love it. I can't wait to film it. It's gonna be a huge video, watch three people watch it, I don't know.

• 13:26Matt Farah?

  Yeah, it looks, it looks like a nice place to, uh, wear athleisure and have something with avocado in it.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  Uh, I filmed another one, another charging station yesterday in Santa Ana that had a Gelson's, is that what?

• 13:38Matt Farah?

  Famous for its wins. They had a Gelson's grocery store?

• 13:42Speaker 01

  Like a nice one. It's like an Air One, I guess.

• 13:44Matt Farah?

  No, no, no, Gelson's is like, um, halfway between a Ralph's and a Whole Foods.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  Oh, everyone was telling me like, Gelson's really fucking nice.

• 13:53Matt Farah?

  It is nice.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  Okay, it looked really good in there.

• 13:56Matt Farah?

  Gelson's is like probably Whole Foods level produce, but without Whole Foods pretentiousness and no Jeff Bezos.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  Oh, okay, so it's actually good, good for the thing.

• 14:06Matt Farah?

  Yeah, it's harder to steal from though.

• 14:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, so this, they had 40 chargers.

• 14:10Matt Farah?

  Wow.

• 14:10Speaker 01

  And it was, it was awesome. It was like a big park and you could do your shopping, car wash, vacuums, air pressure.

• 14:15Matt Farah?

  Nah, it's alright, in Santa Ana?

• 14:17Speaker 01

  They're building 10 in the LA area.

• 14:20Matt Farah?

  Okay.

• 14:20Speaker 01

  Which will be like amazing, because charging sucks here.

• 14:24Matt Farah?

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• 16:34Matt Farah?

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• 16:41Speaker 01

  It really sucks to drive an electric car here, unless you have home charging.

• 16:44Matt Farah?

  That's, it, it sucks to drive an electric car here relying on the public network.

• 16:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, that.

• 16:49Matt Farah?

  Driving an electric car here, if you can charge at home or work, is a vastly superior experience.

• 16:55Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 16:56Matt Farah?

  I'm a huge fan as, I mean, like, I really, really love driving electric cars around Los Angeles compared to almost any gas car. But except in, in dynamic situations, I prefer gas cars to almost any electric car.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  Don't disagree with you there at all. Yep.

• 17:15Matt Farah?

  Yeah, but we have the, we have an R1S right now, the Tri, the new one, which I was very excited to drive. And I thought, I go, God, this is gonna turn into an expensive week because, because my wife and I need a new electric car.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  Okay, Mach-E's gone then?

• 17:30Matt Farah?

  Yeah, back in April. Um, but right now, top of the, top of the pack for replacement.

• 17:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:35Matt Farah?

  But I go, I'm gonna, I have a feeling we're gonna drive this and we're gonna want a Rivian.

• 17:39Speaker 01

  So what do you think?

• 17:41Matt Farah?

  They do, they do some things really, really well, but I, I do not want one, no. I, it's, I, I'm, I've taken the last couple of fucking months or two, such a dive off a cliff away from touchscreens. And this is an all touchscreen experience. I just can't get behind it.

• 18:00Speaker 01

  I mean, look, that's why they make different cars.

• 18:02Matt Farah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 18:02Speaker 01

  But I love it. So I, I have 60,000 miles almost on my Rivian. I didn't really want to launch R1T. And that thing is been the best single item I've ever spent money on. It's so good. It's just reliable.

• 18:16Matt Farah?

  That's good.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  It's fast. It's, you know, you, it looks right. I mean, in Colorado, it's perfect. You don't look like an ass rolling up in the Cybertruck, which, you know, I tinted the windows on ours, so no one sees us in there.

• 18:26Matt Farah?

  That's funny.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  And I mean, I love the Cybertruck too. I, I mean, I, you reviewed mine a while ago.

• 18:31Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  And so.

• 18:32Matt Farah?

  I didn't want to, but I did.

• 18:35Speaker 02

  Did you just get different, do you have differentials yet now?

• 18:37Speaker 01

  Yep, got locking, locking.

• 18:39Matt Farah?

  What about, what about your, uh, light bar?

• 18:41Speaker 01

  Well, I got that.

• 18:42Matt Farah?

  You did? Okay.

• 18:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:43Matt Farah?

  Is there anything left on the list that you still haven't gotten?

• 18:45Speaker 01

  I don't think anymore. I think I got everything I paid for. It only took nine months. It was like trickling in. And every time it goes for service, like Tesla like adds stuff that I'm like, oh, wow, new motor. They like replaced my entire, Cybertrucks are lunching motors, the early ones, like left and right.

• 19:03Matt Farah?

  Really?

• 19:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's really a problem. I don't know, but they replaced mine preemptively for engineering.

• 19:08Matt Farah?

  They're all on Turo.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  They did like an engineering study and I got one of the first new motors and then it, maybe I'll have to.

• 19:15Matt Farah?

  It's because I'm the sly, like, yeah, 90% of them are rentals.

• 19:19Speaker 01

  Especially around here.

• 19:20Matt Farah?

  Yeah. Uh, yeah, around here, they're just, I mean, it's just. The level, I ac- I actually think the, the, the purchasing of them has gone off a cliff. Because we got to a point where we started to see, you know, five to 10 a day. And then it really sort of just froze there.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  And then you still only see five to 10 a day.

• 19:44Matt Farah?

  And then, yeah, and there's no further, I mean, there was just a, there was a, you know, there was just another story that I saw that was like, pretty much, I mean, they said they were take, they were scrub, uh, polishing.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was gonna bring that up.

• 19:58Matt Farah?

  Foundation series badges off some trucks. I, I can't back that up. I don't know if that's true or not.

• 20:03Speaker 01

  It came from a fairly reputable source.

• 20:04Matt Farah?

  But, I mean, but, you know, back when they.

• 20:07Speaker 01

  Why would you buy one of those now? Because they're 20 grand more, you don't get anything.

• 20:11Matt Farah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:11Speaker 01

  So you would just buy a normal one, not the, you know, they made us pay more so we could make content with it, basically. That's all it was.

• 20:20Matt Farah?

  You, yeah, yours comes with a commercial filming permit.

• 20:24Matt Farah?

  It's the only thing that was actually delivered with the truck, funnily enough.

• 20:27Speaker 01

  Like Tesla's really good at screwing over their early customers. And those are the people that love them the most.

• 20:33Matt Farah?

  It's really funny.

• 20:34Speaker 01

  It's, it's really weird.

• 20:34Matt Farah?

  What do you call something that just takes advantage of their most fervent supporters over and over?

• 20:40Speaker 02

  Starts with an A and ends with abusive relationship.

• 20:43Matt Farah?

  So weird. It's on the tip of my tongue. Um, but, uh, no, wait, we had started down something with the G-Wagon and we wanted to come back to, uh, to come back to it. We veered away from it.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 20:58Matt Farah?

  Shit. Now, we'll circle back. Okay, so.

• 21:00Speaker 01

  G-Wagon, Shuckle Mountain, I don't know.

• 21:03Matt Farah?

  You've been, uh, driving a bunch of Chinese shit. I want to talk about, not shit, like just crazy Chinese stuff.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  I mean, some of it's shit, some of it's incredible.

• 21:11Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  Some of it is next level.

• 21:14Matt Farah?

  And do we want it? Do we trust it? Should we have it? Should we not have it?

• 21:20Speaker 01

  I I think we should have it.

• 21:22Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 21:22Speaker 01

  But I don't know if we should trust it.

• 21:24Matt Farah?

  Right, like I saw.

• 21:27Speaker 01

  Some of them come with camera covers from the factory. And I'm like, that sends an interesting message. You know how they have like the selfie cam, like BM7 has them now?

• 21:35Matt Farah?

  Like the driver monitoring cameras?

• 21:37Speaker 01

  No, the that's separate, but they have like an interior monitor where you can like log into your app and see.

• 21:43Matt Farah?

  Oh, like a security camera?

• 21:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, or like if I put my dog in our Model 3 or whatever, it will show up. I can like log in and see what they're doing in the car, which is a great feature. But they have a camera slider covers now in some of these cars. And I'm like, wow, that's interesting from the factory.

• 21:59Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 21:59Speaker 01

  There must be enough of a user base to not trust whatever's going on.

• 22:03Matt Farah?

  Right.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  To want the.

• 22:04Matt Farah?

  See, you know what's so funny? It's like people, so apparently that the the distrust of what's happening with data is invalidated enough that they're putting that in the car.

• 22:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 22:16Matt Farah?

  What's really funny is like in America, we are now just letting like Google and Amazon in our car.

• 22:22Speaker 01

  Whatever you want.

• 22:23Matt Farah?

  And there is absolutely zero reason to think that they're doing anything remotely less malicious with our shit than the Chinese government.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 22:32Matt Farah?

  You know what I mean? Like they're basically treating our data exactly as China and whoever the fuck, you know, quote China. It's like, it's so imagine being in China and like, and America's taking you, who, America? What? No, Amazon.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:46Matt Farah?

  Google, they're taking your fucking data, not not China or not America companies.

• 22:52Speaker 01

  Dude, it's it's actually really insane. So, yeah, these Chinese cars, we drove everything from an $8,000 brand new Wu Ling Bingo.

• 23:00Matt Farah?

  A Wu Ling Bingo.

• 23:02Speaker 01

  Wu Ling Bingo, which is like, um, I think.

• 23:04Matt Farah?

  I won there in 86. $57 in a case of Heineys.

• 23:09Speaker 01

  This thing's pink. It's it's got four wheels. It actually moves under its own power. Um, Alyssa was driving it around today and it was hilarious.

• 23:18Matt Farah?

  Well, $8,000, your competition typically has two wheels. So if you have four wheels, can you get a photo of a Wu Wu Ling Bingo?

• 23:26Speaker 01

  Bingo, has some GM funding behind it because it's SAIC, I think.

• 23:29Matt Farah?

  Well, when you when you Google that, the first thing that comes up is a ball of.

• 23:33Speaker 01

  A W. It's that first option there, yeah.

• 23:36Matt Farah?

  Yes, you transliterated that entirely wrong, okay.

• 23:40Matt Farah?

  Bing Guo.

• 23:40Speaker 01

  So we had the Bing Guo. We had the fully specked one. It was 12 grand.

• 23:44Matt Farah?

  Is that what, is that what we're looking at here, give or take?

• 23:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, it looked just like that.

• 23:47Matt Farah?

  There is zero difference between this and a $28,000 Fiat 500.

• 23:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is literally a 500 described over the telephone and you are now have a wooling bingo.

• 23:57Matt Farah?

  Yeah, it, it looks like somewhere between a little Nissan Leaf and a Fiat 500, but with Genesis headlights and bumpers.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  It's like the size of a Mirage, um, but, but like huge trunk, actually. It feels extremely unsafe to be in it. It feels like if the wind blows, the doors are gonna come in. Yeah, I mean, it's really meant for urban.

• 24:16Matt Farah?

  Sure.

• 24:16Speaker 01

  It's max speed of 60 miles an hour.

• 24:18Matt Farah?

  Eight grand, it's competing with, it's a neighborhood electric vehicle. Yeah, yeah.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  Like lithium golf carts are more than that here. So this is a car with airbags and software.

• 24:28Matt Farah?

  Dude, you know, I just found out what a moke costs.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  Oh, I know.

• 24:31Matt Farah?

  Do you know what?

• 24:32Speaker 01

  Extremely expensive.

• 24:33Matt Farah?

  Do you know what one of those things costs?

• 24:35Speaker 01

  I just reviewed one. It was, I can't, it was like 30 something thousand dollars. What was it?

• 24:38Matt Farah?

  It's, yeah, it's like, it starts with a two or a three.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  Right, right. The top one were low three.

• 24:43Matt Farah?

  Shockingly expensive.

• 24:44Speaker 01

  And it drives terribly.

• 24:46Matt Farah?

  Well, it looks like it's made of eye beams. It's insane.

• 24:49Speaker 01

  It's really bad. I drove also a pink one of those for a video.

• 24:53Matt Farah?

  Yikes, of course. I mean, dude, that looks like it was built for Top Gear. Like, that is literally, looks like it was built by Jeremy Clarkson after he said cue the music. Like, it's no, that's so bad.

• 25:05Speaker 01

  So the wooling drives way better than that. I can make the comparison now that I've extensively tested both.

• 25:10Matt Farah?

  Yeah, for a quarter of the price.

• 25:12Speaker 01

  And this makes more power and has more range. This is like a 33 kilowatt hour LFP pack, 10 to 80 in 29, 30 minutes. Like, it's not bad.

• 25:19Matt Farah?

  Oh, it has DC fast charging?

• 25:21Speaker 01

  It has DC.

• 25:22Matt Farah?

  For eight grand? I would not trust that.

• 25:24Speaker 01

  And 11 kilowatt AC charging, which like some electric, big electric cars have like nine kilowatt charging. So it's like actually fairly impressive. Uh, so we started there and we walked, we, you know, worked all the way up to, seriously, a world-class car. Not, not even joking. It's the Xiaomi SU7.

• 25:42Matt Farah?

  Now, is that the one that had total brake failure on the track?

• 25:46Speaker 01

  Uh, yes.

• 25:47Matt Farah?

  Yeah, okay, cool. Just checking.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  But it also ran, set the Nürburgring lifetime record, right?

• 25:51Speaker 01

  That was a, yeah, that's the, the ultra version. The max, which is not the max, the max is the mid trim.

• 25:57Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 25:58Speaker 01

  The ultra is the big one. The one we drove was like Model 3 Performance competitor.

• 26:02Matt Farah?

  Sure.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  For roughly the same money, a little bit less. Incredible interior materials, actually drove really nice. Brakes are a problem. Definitely a problem.

• 26:11Matt Farah?

  I saw a post, and I don't know if it can be verified, that the brakes were actually sort of allegedly like fraudulent, like they were.

• 26:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, so they look huge from the outside.

• 26:21Matt Farah?

  Yeah, like it has a huge, like a 10 piston.

• 26:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 26:23Matt Farah?

  Cover on like a single piston caliper.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think they are technically four piston, but it's like this much surface material and this much brake.

• 26:31Matt Farah?

  That's kinda crazy.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:33Matt Farah?

  It does look like a Taycan. It's like, it's like, hey, ChatGPT, make me a Taycan with a McLaren Artura nose on it.

• 26:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 26:44Matt Farah?

  And a Hyundai Ioniq, uh, or a Hyundai Elantra NS, right? Give or take?

• 26:50Speaker 01

  It's even got some Taycan stuff with the running light. I, it's, the interior, like the, the, the perforation pattern is identical to Porsche. The steering wheel material, like the look is slightly off, but when you grab the wheel, it's a Porsche wheel.

• 27:04Matt Farah?

  Uh huh.

• 27:05Speaker 01

  It's, it's unbelievable.

• 27:06Matt Farah?

  So they're still, they're still ripping off Western man.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  What if you're gonna rip someone off?

• 27:11Matt Farah?

  No, I get it, but they're just finding much more subtle ways to do it as opposed to literally making like a fake X5 or a fake Mini or a fake Lexus.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  Right, so in general, I would say.

• 27:23Matt Farah?

  That was the brake.

• 27:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, so that brake is an issue. They have to fix that. There were also some other quality issues with the car for the initial one. Let, let's just be, you know, totally real here for a second. This is a car that is in an extremely competitive environment for sales. It got 100,000 pre-orders. They're $850 per order. It wasn't like 100 bucks each. And they did that in 24 hours. So there was a lot of interest for this car.

• 27:46Matt Farah?

  Yeah, but like, interest and quality are not the same thing. The Cybertruck proves.

• 27:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're totally right. But the quality here, other than the brakes, was incredible.

• 27:57Speaker 02

  Why do you think there was so much interest in this car? What do you think it was about this that captivated people over other ones?

• 28:03Speaker 01

  So Xiaomi is like this huge conglomerate of tech. They make like everything from washing machines to amazing cell phones. So imagine if like Apple released the Apple car. It's kind of like that.

• 28:13Matt Farah?

  Landall Global, we're in everything. No. No other guy's reference? Okay, nevermind, sorry.

• 28:18Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, so, so-

• 28:20Matt Farah?

  Some three people out there are like, "He did an other guy's reference!"

• 28:23Speaker 01

  Never even heard of it.

• 28:24Matt Farah?

  The other guy?

• 28:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, never heard of it.

• 28:26Matt Farah?

  Mark Wahlberg, Will Ferrell.

• 28:28Speaker 01

  I don't watch movies.

• 28:28Matt Farah?

  It's a fucking awesome movie. Oh yeah, you don't, you've never seen movies, right?

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Um, so every reference is whoop.

• 28:34Matt Farah?

  That, I do like the steering wheel. I mean, the general design of that, of that interior is nice. Uh, yeah, for sure.

• 28:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's really a nice car. And the, the crazy, so most Chinese cars have, in the past, like, a lot of tech features, a lot of fast processor, and then shit chassis dynamics, and, you know, okay, brakes for sure, and then weird powertrain and tuning and stuff. This, while it wasn't completely as well sorted as some cars that we get to drive, was like, really close.

• 29:00Matt Farah?

  Okay.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  And I'm like, wow, finally, I drove like a, like, I've driven every BYD, every Neo, and they're like, you know, 80% of the way there from a driving standpoint to convince you they're like, good enough, but clearly you can tell they were developed in simulation-

• 29:13Matt Farah?

  Right.

• 29:13Speaker 01

  And not really tested and adapted afterwards. This feels like there were actually some test drivers who gave a shit and dialed it in.

• 29:20Matt Farah?

  Yeah, that one guy gave a shit right into the fucking wall, didn't he?

• 29:22Speaker 01

  Dude, it snapped the seat in half backwards. It was a huge hit.

• 29:27Matt Farah?

  But, and, and I, I respect your restraint in looking at that photo of that brake and saying, "That needs to be addressed," as if that's not malicious. Like, that's literally malicious, like, putting a giant brake caliper cover that says "Brembo" on it over what looks like a motorcycle pad, that's malicious.

• 29:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally.

• 29:52Matt Farah?

  Like, that's fraud.

• 29:53Speaker 01

  I, I'm not, not against you at all. I'm with you, and I, that's actually, we, it's in our video too, that I was like, this is bullshit.

• 30:00Matt Farah?

  That's crazy. And, and this is how much power?

• 30:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, so, I mean, I, I haven't been reviewing cars as long as you have been, but my strategy, or at least theory, is I try to review the subcomponents, the subcategories, individually, and I try not to let one thing affect the other thing. But yeah, that's a real problem. And even driving it on the street- You feel the brake issue.

• 30:22Matt Farah?

  Right, right, okay, so you're saying, okay, I try to say, alright, the power is this, the handling is this, the...

• 30:28Speaker 01

  In general, I try to be like...

• 30:30Matt Farah?

  Which is fine, you can have your style, I don't care.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean...

• 30:33Matt Farah?

  But I'm just saying, like, look, if that photo is real, that's pretty goddamn egregious.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  It's crazy, especially because the CEO of this company, I don't know his name or anything, but I know he's a huge car enthusiast, and to me, I'm like, if you're a car enthusiast, how can you let that make it to production? That just seems crazy.

• 30:51Matt Farah?

  That's...

• 30:51Speaker 01

  The car, other than that single issue, is incredible.

• 30:56Matt Farah?

  Okay.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  It drove really well. It had incredible software, great driver assistance, looks great, feels great, everything about that was like, oh damn. And to think that two years ago, this company made cell phones.

• 31:08Matt Farah?

  Well, it's, you know, they skipped over making good internal combustions. They didn't have to spend all that time.

• 31:15Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 31:16Matt Farah?

  You know, we built up our industry around internal combustion, as did, you know, Europe and most of Asia. And so, you know, they just gotta skip over that.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  Speaking of brakes, there's a cool feature that a lot of these Chinese cars has, that I've never seen in a Western car, which is, you know, when you're driving a typical car, you're on the brake pedal coming to a stop, and you always just lift off at the end to make a smooth stop?

• 31:43Matt Farah?

  Hmm.

• 31:44Speaker 01

  All of these Chinese cars have a smooth stop feature.

• 31:46Matt Farah?

  By the way, I hate when people don't do that.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  Right, cuz you...

• 31:49Matt Farah?

  It drives me fucking nuts.

• 31:50Speaker 01

  It's every Uber driver.

• 31:51Matt Farah?

  Yeah. So it has an auto for that?

• 31:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, and unless you're in emergency braking, then it doesn't do that. But if you're just cruising normally, every single one just smooth stops. I'm like, wow.

• 32:01Matt Farah?

  That's kinda nice. Guys, we gotta take one more quick break. For Aura Frames, these things are so cool. Everybody in your family is not a technophile like genius you, who listens to the Smoking Tire Podcast. Like, let's just say, your parents, right? Your uncle, they're older, they don't necessarily know how, you know, Dropbox works per se, or things like that, complicated file sharing systems. Here's what you do, you get the Aura Frame, you send it to a person, you... Love and then you can upload unlimited photos and videos directly from your phone to that Aura Frame. Right? So you you got kids, you want to send those photos to the grandparents, the uncles, etc.

• 32:44Matt Farah?

  Aura Frames is it. You just send them the frame, they set it up in their living room and then photos of the kids just start coming in. Cause you're dropping them in there. These are great holiday gifts. Um, they make it easy to bring people closer together and keep up with the old ones, keep up with the young ones, keep up with the pets. We should do a like a Patreon or we should do an Aura Frames Patreon.

• 33:09Speaker 02

  We could do that. Make the Google Photos account and let them just go.

• 33:12Matt Farah?

  To Aura Frames and do and see if people buy if patrons at a level get their own T S T Aura Frame. It's like it's like a fully private Instagram, but like in your house and not on Instagram.

• 33:27Speaker 02

  And oh, we upload the photos.

• 33:28Matt Farah?

  Yeah, like we put photos like BTS photos in this. Yeah, that's actually a pretty good idea. We should talk to Aura Frames about this. Save on the perfect gift by visiting AuraFrames.com and get 35 bucks off Aura's best selling Carver Matte Frames. By using promo code tire at checkout. That's A U R A Frames.com promo code tire. This deal is exclusive to listeners, so get yours now in time for the holidays. Terms and conditions apply. And now back to the show.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  It's actually really cool.

• 34:03Matt Farah?

  Is it?

• 34:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:04Matt Farah?

  And and but this is a on the we're on the brake caliper at this point. We're not talking about like regen shit.

• 34:12Speaker 01

  Correct. So the way most of them do their braking is they target, um, you know, that sort of the brake controller handles between regen and friction. Whatever it can grab from either, and then it targets the deceleration profile and then just chooses a really nice one. At least in this, some of them were tuned bad. I think I saw a commercial that it was one of the suppliers that did it was like a Bosch or something. That did the brake booster and I thought it was really nicely tuned and thought, okay, we should get that in some of our cars. Cause some people drive like shit and don't come to a smooth stop.

• 34:40Matt Farah?

  It would be an interesting thing to be able to, I imagine you can toggle it on and off if you want, right? Yeah, as long as you as long as you can turn it off, like that would be, that would be a nice thing to have.

• 34:50Speaker 01

  The settings are crazy in all these cars. They let you adjust everything.

• 34:54Matt Farah?

  What was the weirdest adjustment you saw?

• 34:56Speaker 01

  I drove this, uh.

• 34:59Speaker 01

  This I M L six, which is a brand new Tesla Model three competitor.

• 35:05Matt Farah?

  It's pronounced I M L six.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  That the L S six is the S U V version, but it's basically the same thing. It has actually one of the first semi.

• 35:14Matt Farah?

  This is from the same company as that other super cheap car? It looks like it is.

• 35:20Speaker 01

  I think they're both under S A I C, but different company I M is its own brand.

• 35:25Matt Farah?

  It looks exactly like it looks like the same. Doesn't it look the same family?

• 35:30Speaker 01

  They're all weirdly odd because we're not used to seeing them. So it's like hard to distinguish things. I guess that's been my issue. Uh, this one is a just a normal like forty thousand dollar electric sedan, but it has crab walk.

• 35:44Matt Farah?

  And what purpose is that supposed to serve?

• 35:46Speaker 01

  Zero, it's just fun.

• 35:47Matt Farah?

  Okay.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  If you got rear steer, let it go sideways. Like when I drive Hummer E V, I crab walk everywhere because it's hilarious.

• 35:53Matt Farah?

  That is the only purpose of that vehicle.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, just to be stupid and have fun. But I think that was cool that like a random sedan had stuff like this. It also has like a full track mode. I'm like, no one's taking this thing to the track. Dude, they let you like pre chill the drivetrain, adjust the power split.

• 36:07Matt Farah?

  A track mode is a little silly. I don't, I don't like what they're doing with these wheels, though. These paint, these, these painted inner, inner wheel sidewalls. What can we call those? The insides of the cutouts of the wheels are painted.

• 36:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:24Matt Farah?

  Two tone, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not into that.

• 36:27Speaker 01

  The crazy thing with these are the charging performance. So they're like four, five hundred kilowatts, normal in China. Just completely normal.

• 36:34Matt Farah?

  Is that? Well, how do we get there?

• 36:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're not far away from it. So they're choosing power dense cells. They're also getting sort of semi solid state and right on the cusp of a mass produced solid state battery. Which means the, you know, sort of the electrolyte allows the free flow of electrons, electrons through.

• 36:51Matt Farah?

  Does that? So I read over and I admittedly electricity is a weak point for me.

• 37:00Matt Farah?

  And I've I've put a lot of time into like learning what shit means and trying to say the thing right. For years and and we've been hearing, okay, when solid state batteries are here, when solid state batteries are here, when solid state batteries are here. What specifically are solid state batteries going to make better about the car?

• 37:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, that is a tough one. There's a few benefits and a few downsides. The downsides right now are the longevity of the cell. Because when you have a solid state connecting with the anode and the cathode, and there are some like anode free batteries that are starting to come. I'm not a cell expert at all, but if you can make them manufacturable in high quantities and last a long time, you have a complete fire safety, you know, sort of solved. Because the electrolyte is really that that gel material is very flammable. And my understanding is they'll be extremely safe from a a fire standpoint.

• 37:55Matt Farah?

  Because the gel doesn't

• 37:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:57Matt Farah?

  spread and go all over the place.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  Right, you won't have a thermal event then. And also, yeah, basically the free flowing of electrons between the cell and hopefully less degradation would be the goal. Right now, that's the problem is they they work really well for a few hundred cycles and then the basically the new electrolyte material, the solid state material starts to lose connection with the anode and cathode and you'll have a shorted cell or you'll have an issue where you'll get like something called lithium dendrites that form that can like split through the cell. And so you have a bunch of little issues and I'm not an expert at all and I would really love to dig into this topic. But there's very few people who understand it.

• 38:38Matt Farah?

  I would love to as well, except we'd lose all of our advertisers then.

• 38:45Matt Farah?

  It's that's like the new, it's like the that's like, oh, you wanted to talk about tires? Hold my beer.

• 38:49Speaker 01

  Right, yeah, yeah.

• 38:51Matt Farah?

  Gone. But it's, I mean, we sort of are going to be forced to to learn all this stuff.

• 38:56Speaker 01

  I'm fascinated by it. I also just, I think the charging performance like Tycon charges really well because they went with a very expensive power dense cell rather than a sort of capacity dense cell.

• 39:08Matt Farah?

  Okay.

• 39:08Speaker 01

  And so these These are cells that are available trade offs automakers can can go for. Do you want less overall capacity but with higher charging and discharging power? Or more capacity with less charging performance as an example? And so these are the trade offs every automaker has to go through with just typical NMC regular, you know, I guess wet batteries.

• 39:30Matt Farah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 39:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, non dry.

• 39:33Matt Farah?

  You just made me think, and we'll come back to China in a second. Do I want a two year old Taycan at half price?

• 39:41Speaker 01

  Dude, they're so cheap now.

• 39:42Matt Farah?

  Because I I it's like, you know, we've done this thing with the Bentley of can you? Could I drive this Bentley for less money for a year than if I had just leased something? But what everyone really wants to know is, is a Taycan at half price a good deal?

• 40:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it is.

• 40:03Matt Farah?

  You think so?

• 40:03Speaker 01

  The new one's significantly better.

• 40:05Matt Farah?

  I know.

• 40:06Speaker 01

  From from a unless like if you're just using it as a commuter around town and you're not doing big trips.

• 40:11Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 40:11Speaker 01

  The old one's amazing. It's really, really great.

• 40:13Matt Farah?

  So what makes the new one that much better?

• 40:15Speaker 01

  Uh, so the new one, we just did like cumulatively across all of our testing, 20,000 miles in the new car. We did a bunch, uh, drove it all around Europe and the US for all of our testing and it was amazing. It's really cool. It does 320 kilowatt peak, maybe like 325, and it holds 300 kilowatt to 65%.

• 40:35Matt Farah?

  Okay, that's pretty good.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  The magic.

• 40:37Matt Farah?

  Okay.

• 40:38Speaker 01

  We broke the cannonball with it again, just to kind of show the the difference between the old and the new car. And it was hours difference across the country. It's like an amazing road tripper, better thermals, better suspension with active ride.

• 40:49Matt Farah?

  Yeah, active ride's sick.

• 40:50Speaker 01

  It's so cool.

• 40:51Matt Farah?

  But do you want a sport Turismo from 2022? You know, at half price without active ride. I think at 65 grand, I think you do.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  And I and I think they're going to be even less than that in no time.

• 41:05Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 41:06Speaker 01

  I don't I don't think they're coming back.

• 41:07Matt Farah?

  No.

• 41:08Speaker 01

  And there's just trajectory is down and that's a great thing as a consumer because those are incredible cars.

• 41:15Matt Farah?

  Yeah, it just it's it's it's a tough thing to process, you know, owning one. Cause it just seems like it seems like if. If something happens that's bad, it just seems like it can be so expensive.

• 41:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean the Germans are like their failure modes on their cars are rough like uh there's a there's this guy in like Ukraine who gets all these Taycans in that were crashed and rebuilds them or something happens to the battery and he's really, really good with it, but there are significant problems with these early Taycans from a battery standpoint that the new one seems to at least I'm told fix quite a bit of.

• 41:50Matt Farah?

  Do you think by the time they got to Cross Terezmo, which was already like a year and a half into production? That they sorted that to the point where that car like I'm talking about a car with like, you know, 10 to 15,000 miles. I'm not talking about 50 or 100,000 miles. Can that be trusted? No?

• 42:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, the miles I wouldn't worry about.

• 42:11Matt Farah?

  It's just which day it was built on?

• 42:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, yeah, just I don't even know, but there's like random battery failures and maybe it's whenever you're in like owners groups of cars or you research them like people don't talk when their car is great. They only post when there's issues with it.

• 42:24Matt Farah?

  Right.

• 42:25Speaker 01

  But um I think you just, you know, the warranty is long, eight years on the battery. Get a CPO one, two, whatever. And they're amazing. Just don't buy a first year one. I would get 2021 or newer. Uh if you if the car supports plug in charge, then it's good.

• 42:38Matt Farah?

  Yeah, I mean, yeah, you gotta have plug in charge.

• 42:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, the first year doesn't have it.

• 42:41Matt Farah?

  Yeah, that's no blame.

• 42:42Speaker 01

  It's retrofitable.

• 42:43Matt Farah?

  I would I would only buy a Cross Terezmo anyway.

• 42:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then then you're fine. I mean, I was trying to get my dad to get one of those.

• 42:50Matt Farah?

  They they're fucking rad. They're so nice and you don't just the base one like you don't need the fucking all the power like the regular.

• 43:00Speaker 01

  They went for the Macan electric. So that's what my mom is driving now.

• 43:03Matt Farah?

  Does she like it?

• 43:04Speaker 01

  She loves it. Yeah, she went from a Model Y to that. So it's a big step up from ride quality and you know, the whole car. She she's really thrilled with it.

• 43:11Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 43:11Speaker 01

  It's not as nice as the Taycan though.

• 43:14Matt Farah?

  Ah, yeah, I had, I had one on order. I ended up not taking it. It was, it was too expensive of a car.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  They're too much money.

• 43:21Matt Farah?

  You know, well, whenever, if everything was what it cost in 2021, then it would be fine, but that's not how everything else works. Now, you know, pick your $50,000 electric crossover for no money.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  The, the move is either lease one right now, especially where we live in Colorado. The lease deals are crazy. Dude, you can get a free Fiat 500E. It's zero down, zero a month.

• 43:44Matt Farah?

  What?

• 43:45Speaker 01

  You just pay taxes upfront.

• 43:46Matt Farah?

  Seriously?

• 43:47Speaker 01

  Yes. Yeah. 500Es are free in Colorado right now.

• 43:51Matt Farah?

  Ken, I won't, I will, I'll take one.

• 43:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, you gotta register it there, because that, that's where you get all the state credits.

• 43:55Matt Farah?

  Oh, you have to register it in Colorado?

• 43:57Speaker 01

  That's where you get the state credit. Yeah. I'm sure you can find the deal online, but there's literally zero dollars.

• 44:02Matt Farah?

  Can I register to your house?

• 44:04Speaker 01

  No, I mean, I think, I would be cool with it, but you need like a utility bill in your name or something.

• 44:09Matt Farah?

  All right, sure. Can I?

• 44:12Speaker 01

  So this, this was a, this is, uh, $62 a month. Maybe that includes tax.

• 44:16Matt Farah?

  Taxes, yeah.

• 44:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, but we did this thing with Leafs.

• 44:19Matt Farah?

  Have you driven one of those yet? 500E?

• 44:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:21Matt Farah?

  Is it all right? But?

• 44:24Speaker 01

  For free.

• 44:24Matt Farah?

  For fucking, uh?

• 44:25Speaker 01

  Way better than a Leaf.

• 44:26Matt Farah?

  Under a hundred dollars a month?

• 44:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, so we did a Leaf deal. I think we sold like a hundred in a day at our local dealer. It was 500 down, 19 a month. And that was, you know, I got one for my dog sitter. I'm like, dude, thanks for watching. Yeah, thanks for watching the dogs. Here's a Leaf. Then it bricked on him. He hated EVs. He's like an old vehicle, you know, has an old Les Sabre, Danny. Oh, gosh. We did a whole video series with it.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  Like you announced the deal, like to help promote the Nissan dealership or something like that?

• 44:52Speaker 01

  We went and got this. You should go get one too. And the dealer's like, oh, maybe like a few people will show up. Dude, there were people like knocking the door down the next morning. It was crazy. We, we met so many viewers. It was fun. If you were there, nice to see you.

• 45:04Matt Farah?

  How many people bought Leafs?

• 45:06Speaker 01

  Uh, over a hundred in a day. I mean, they were like getting them from other dealers. They were pre-selling ones that were at the port that they were trying to get in.

• 45:12Matt Farah?

  That's awesome.

• 45:13Speaker 01

  Crazy. Uh, but Danny, uh, we got him one and he hated electric cars. And I'm not sure he's convinced. The Leaf's not a great one to convince you.

• 45:20Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 45:21Speaker 01

  But the whole car bricked at 400 miles. Leafs are generally pretty reliable.

• 45:24Matt Farah?

  Yeah. My buddy, my, my buddy, poor guy, he lemoned his Rivian R1S. It had a, it had an issue. It had, it, it had terminal pull to the right. It pulled to the right super hard. They couldn't fix it.

• 45:42Speaker 01

  What was it a quad motor?

• 45:43Matt Farah?

  Don't uh, uh, yeah.

• 45:46Speaker 01

  But a gen one?

• 45:47Matt Farah?

  No, yeah, it was like. Yeah, it was like what they were selling like eight months ago.

• 45:52Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 45:52Matt Farah?

  Yeah, yeah. Uh, an S quad.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:55Matt Farah?

  Uh, lemoned it. But got the new one, got a try. He just got it. He put four hundred miles on it. And it went into fucking limp mode. And while he was in Mexico. Went into limp mode and he thought he was, he's like, he hits us up. What's turtle mode? I can't go over fifty. And I was like, oh shit dude. He figured out how to trick it into going over fifty. He brought it, he got it back to where the service center, he's, he's down in San Diego. And they said they have to replace the entire suspension. The truck had four hundred miles on it.

• 46:32Speaker 01

  Dude, that's.

• 46:32Matt Farah?

  Was not great.

• 46:33Speaker 01

  That is not.

• 46:34Matt Farah?

  And I was like, oh, I have one for review this week. He's like, yeah, I'm tell him to fucking take this one. I don't want this thing back. Fuck. Oh, no.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  I've, I've had a couple of issues with the new Rivian's. The gen two is, is pretty rough in my opinion from an improvement over the gen one. R1S gets a suspension improvement, but. Charging performance didn't get any better, which was my main issue with it before.

• 46:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I wish it did better, basically. Gen two, we, we gave it a pretty scathing review.

• 47:05Matt Farah?

  It, I remember really liking the, the truck, except that it wouldn't fit in my garage because it was too long and going. If the SUV must be unbelievable. And I don't really feel that way after driving. The truck is actually better other than being too long.

• 47:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like originally they like tuned the suspension and the whole thing around that longer wheelbase.

• 47:24Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 47:24Speaker 01

  And it's like a foot longer.

• 47:26Matt Farah?

  It's a lot longer.

• 47:27Speaker 01

  Big difference. And they, they adapted the new one, blah, blah, blah, put a heat pump in it, all these things, but. It just to me, it was a cost cutting thing, the gen two for Rivian to save money for their bill of materials.

• 47:37Matt Farah?

  Sure.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  And the customer, like the door handles feel worse, the heat pump makes noise when it's cold, it's buzzing away, shaking the whole car. Uh, charging performance literally got worse.

• 47:46Matt Farah?

  I drove in this morning in like the cold. It didn't heat up that fast.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, the, the heating performance is worse than the old ones.

• 47:52Matt Farah?

  It's not great.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, they have a lot of improvements to go. I'm gonna go over and visit their like engineering labs. After we did the review, they're like, come over and, you know, meet with everyone. I'm like, yeah, really want to.

• 48:03Matt Farah?

  Uh, but it feels like it's, it's screwed together really nicely.

• 48:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, Rivian's are.

• 48:10Speaker 01

  Have you driven the, the new quad motor?

• 48:12Matt Farah?

  No.

• 48:12Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah.

• 48:13Matt Farah?

  I haven't.

• 48:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did dual tri and quad, uh, on track same day. We did, well, so we were doing Motor Trend SUV of the Year. I was like joining for that program as a guest thing. And there, so I was like, great, I'll do dual tri and quad. It was really interesting to see the difference. The dual motor is the best one. Get the base R1S.

• 48:35Matt Farah?

  Why is that?

• 48:36Speaker 01

  LFP battery, best charging performance out of the bunch, uh, best thermals. Uh, the dual motor just felt so happy and natural to slide. The problem with the tri and quad, in my opinion, well, the quad we drove was super early. Pulled hard to the right, like massive amount of torque steer in the quad.

• 48:51Matt Farah?

  Oh, well, I wonder if this is what was happening with my buddy's car.

• 48:54Speaker 01

  But the Gen 1's never did it, so it must have been different. But the new one was like early pre-pro prototype. I can't imagine it would make it to a series like that. They also don't upgrade the brakes for the faster ones.

• 49:06Matt Farah?

  Oh.

• 49:06Speaker 01

  Which is like.

• 49:07Matt Farah?

  Well, it's good that the dual motor is the best because it's also the cheapest.

• 49:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, so buy the base R1S, LFP, like base battery pack, everything. That's the one to go for. And then you can full charge it every day and it's great.

• 49:18Matt Farah?

  Huh.

• 49:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:19Matt Farah?

  That's good to know. Um, the, okay, so we've, uh, I want to talk about, uh, uh, cars, uh, not Teslas using, uh, the Tesla charge plug now.

• 49:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:31Matt Farah?

  And how that is going and what cars are good and bad at that specific task. What is your experience charging non-Teslas on superchargers?

• 49:40Speaker 01

  Should we start with the bad first?

• 49:41Matt Farah?

  Yeah, sure. Shit on stuff.

• 49:43Speaker 01

  There's a lot of.

• 49:44Matt Farah?

  Cut clip now.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  There are a lot of problems with this NAX transition. Technically, it's now called J3400.

• 49:52Matt Farah?

  Oh, they gave it a J, huh?

• 49:54Speaker 01

  It's got a J name, so official SAE, J3400. And it's, um, yeah, it's really, honestly, a disaster. However, I think we all needed to converge on one plug.

• 50:06Matt Farah?

  Of course.

• 50:06Speaker 01

  And so I was, at the time, before any of this happened, I was really pushing for everyone, let's just go CCS.

• 50:11Matt Farah?

  Me too. They were doing it in Europe and like...

• 50:14Speaker 01

  Well, the CCS Europe's totally different. They use three-phase CCS2 without a latch. That's the best one. If we could have all just gone CCS2, that would have been a great solution. None of this would have ever happened.

• 50:25Matt Farah?

  Cool, another way. Point for Western Europe.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  Right. So, J3400, so what's happening with this? Essentially, we're all pretty much moving to the port. I, the port's better. It's a nicer port, it's easier to interface, it has, um, you know, a really nice design. The CCS1's generally, it's hard to totally interface it into. A lot of people think because we're moving to the Tesla port, the cables are going to be thinner and lighter. But they're not.

• 50:55Matt Farah?

  No.

• 50:55Speaker 01

  It's going to be the same cable that you see on Electrify America or EV Go, just with a Tesla plug at the end. So they're still going to be hard to wrangle.

• 51:02Matt Farah?

  Why do people, because on Tesla chargers, they are?

• 51:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, so Tesla will overboost their cables by quite a bit.

• 51:10Matt Farah?

  Oh, yeah, we talked about that with Ali. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 51:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, um, so that's, that's one interesting thing. The, the problem with other cars using superchargers is superchargers currently don't support high voltage. So every supercharger is limited to 500 volts. Which means if you bring your R1S...

• 51:29Matt Farah?

  Wait, what?

• 51:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. If you bring your R1S, if you bring a, um, you know, Mustang Mach-E, or an F-150 Lightning, or some normal low-voltage electric car, they charge natively with the supercharger network, just like any other DC charger. If you bring a Taycan, or a Lucid, or an Ioniq 5...

• 51:46Matt Farah?

  So you're talking about 900 volt, anything over 400 volt?

• 51:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:49Matt Farah?

  Okay, so that's where it's high and not high.

• 51:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, in our world, yeah, so, so like, above 500 volts, technically, like... In that eight hundred volt class, you'll hear that, but no car is like exactly eight hundred volts. It's just, are you a four hundred volt class or an eight hundred volt? Like Hyundai Kia will say their EV nine's eight hundred volt, but it's really five hundred thirty volts or five fifty. So it's just what, you know, what side of the four hundred are you on?

• 52:12Matt Farah?

  All right.

• 52:12Speaker 01

  And those cars have to use boosting technology onboard the vehicle in order to charge.

• 52:19Matt Farah?

  Okay.

• 52:20Speaker 01

  So as an example, let's take, uh, let's take a Taycan. You take a Taycan, uh, to a Tesla Supercharger, and there's many Superchargers now that have the Magic Dock Adapter built in. There's a handful that are open to everyone already. So even though Porsche doesn't have the, you know, Volkswagen Group doesn't have the native access yet, you can still use some stations. You plug it into a Supercharger and it has to kick on an extra module in the car. That basically takes the power from the Supercharger at low voltage and steps it up to the pack. To the battery pack.

• 52:52Matt Farah?

  Okay.

• 52:52Speaker 01

  So there's many different technologies on how to do this.

• 52:55Matt Farah?

  And would that work the same if you plugged into like a fifty or a fucking, uh, a level two or some other kind of CCS charger? Or this is just for Tesla chargers?

• 53:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's very few CCS chargers left that are low voltage only. There's a couple fifty kilowatts out there.

• 53:13Matt Farah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 53:13Speaker 01

  But pretty much anything over fifty kilowatt supports up to a thousand volts or nine fifty.

• 53:18Matt Farah?

  Okay.

• 53:18Speaker 01

  So a Lucid at a Supercharger and Lucid Air can only charge at fifty kilowatts, forty-five.

• 53:23Matt Farah?

  That's not great.

• 53:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 53:25Matt Farah?

  So it's emergencies only?

• 53:27Speaker 01

  For that car, it's emergencies. Taycans can do about one thirty, Macan can do about one thirty.

• 53:32Matt Farah?

  Uh huh.

• 53:32Speaker 01

  They'd have completely different ways of interfacing, by the way. And Cybertruck, when you charge it at a Supercharger, Cybertruck's eight hundred volts. It, just like Macan, splits the battery in half. So it goes in the split pack.

• 53:44Matt Farah?

  Okay.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  So it's essentially you'll have a, you know, you have two separate sections of your battery that are wired together in parallel. Then with the Cybertruck while you're charging, it's low voltage. Then when you unplug, they switch back to series configuration and go to high voltage.

• 53:59Matt Farah?

  Weird.

• 54:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, Hummer does it for fast charging, so the Hummer does it the opposite way. Silverado, uh, et cetera. So when you drive those trucks around. They are operating at like 350 volts nominal. Because the rest of the Ultium stuff is designed to work with Equinox and Blazer and all the motors. So they work with low voltage stuff. But to get the high power charging, when you plug into CCS, you'll hear a ka-chunk and now the Hummer EV is high voltage.

• 54:26Matt Farah?

  Okay.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  To charge faster.

• 54:27Matt Farah?

  Okay.

• 54:28Speaker 01

  So that's a problem with this supercharging thing is currently Tesla does not natively support, you know, 1000 volt architecture to charge every vehicle at its maximum capacity. And they require vehicles to have boosting technology onboard.

• 54:45Matt Farah?

  So getting the headline that you're opening your supercharger network to everybody is a fantastic amount of good press that you're getting. How much real world good is that actually done?

• 55:02Speaker 01

  So far, they've only opened it up, or the automakers that have worked with Tesla to actually get full access are low voltage cars. So it's worked pretty well so far. And I think Ford owners, you know, it really happened because of Jim Farley and Ford getting access. And it's been a huge enabler for Rivian trips and Ford trips and et cetera, et cetera. Volvo Polestar now have access and a few others. So that works really well. The question comes with Hyundai. They're the first ones to put the physical port on their car.

• 55:32Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 55:32Speaker 01

  And that's a car that cannot charge very fast at superchargers. So.

• 55:38Matt Farah?

  So it's actually more annoying to use the chargers that it can charge fast at?

• 55:43Speaker 01

  Yes, because you need an adapter now to use EA.

• 55:45Matt Farah?

  But is EA gonna be forced to switch to the other cables?

• 55:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think 50% by sometime next year EA will switch to NEX or something like that.

• 55:55Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 55:55Speaker 01

  So the problem with the Hyundai situation is they'll charge at about 130 kilowatts now. The brand new ones with the native ports, the old ones will only do about 80 or 100 or so kilowatts at the supercharger network. But now you're selling a car that's known for its fantastic charging performance. And there's very, like a handful of chargers in the whole country that can natively charge it fast.

• 56:18Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 56:18Speaker 01

  Without an adapter.

• 56:19Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 56:20Speaker 01

  And that to me just seems, they should have held off for a little while, I think.

• 56:25Matt Farah?

  This is, it's a tough, it's, it's hard to like be an automotive journalist and talk about this stuff because it's so, it's like real deeply nerdy and about something that isn't like a recreational thing. It's not like we're talking about track performance. We're talking about things that dictate how easy or hard this car is to use.

• 56:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 56:52Matt Farah?

  In situations where that thing matters, but in a way that is technical far beyond the capability of the average person.

• 57:01Speaker 01

  And even the average journalist.

• 57:02Matt Farah?

  Not capability, that's the wrong word.

• 57:04Speaker 01

  Knowledge base.

• 57:04Matt Farah?

  The knowledge base.

• 57:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:06Matt Farah?

  And even the average journalist, even including an experienced journalist like me.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, I think we're, um, you know, we see it where a lot of our friends in the industry will call me up, be like, "Why am I charging here?" And I'm like, "Well, here's like five different possibilities as to why." And it's really, I really am trying to get everyone on the same page here of like voltage, amperage, charging infrastructure. To me, charging performance matters just as much as track performance.

• 57:31Matt Farah?

  Well, it probably matters more to more people, to people that are buying these cars. To me, how an EV behaves every day is way more important than how it behaves on the fucking track. I don't, I, I have not been convinced that I want to take an EV to the track, even though I've taken an IONIQ, I've driven all the best ones on the track.

• 57:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, you were the shoe for your thing this year.

• 57:53Matt Farah?

  Yeah, so like, yeah, it was, I mean, it was, it was fun. The only way it could have been better is if it wasn't EV of the year.

• 58:01Speaker 01

  Sure, absolutely, yeah.

• 58:02Matt Farah?

  That's not the thing.

• 58:03Speaker 01

  Although I want to join on the next one. That looked really fun.

• 58:05Matt Farah?

  I mean, it was fun and like, it's not, it's just like, trying to set a very fast lap time in an EV is a very difficult thing to do. Um, and unlike a fucking gas car, you can't practice it and then

• 58:22Speaker 01

  You're right.

• 58:22Matt Farah?

  Do it because you're literally burning off the car's performance. I mean, you know, Jethro, who admittedly is the number one driver at the magazine in the gas cars for a performance car of the year, you know, he gets to do a bunch of practice laps.

• 58:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:37Matt Farah?

  Um, and, and he's not, uh...

• 58:41Matt Farah?

  There is a fixed number of laps you're supposed to do with each car. But like, it's not like, you know, lap four is gonna be, you don't have 50 less horsepower than lap two, you know.

• 58:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a good point. Yeah, the tracking thing. So on the charging side, you have cars that natively don't interface with the network, the high voltage ones. Version four charging has been promised, long promised from Tesla, and it's long overdue. And I think it's really a shame how long it's taken them to get it out. Finally, they just announced it like a month or two ago. Native high voltage charging, 500 kilowatt output per port, but it is a load-shared situation.

• 59:18Speaker 02

  Is that them planning for the future of their vehicles, that they want to have more high voltage? Or is it just because there are going to be so many other cars from other companies that are using high voltage? Because it seems like 3, Model 3 and Y and S are these low voltage systems, right?

• 59:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, Cybertruck today is high voltage. Yeah, I don't know what the rationale. I'm sure it's a mix of both. I mean, the future is higher voltage, without question, for sort of the higher-end cars. And in China, they're 900 volts, you know, a couple cars are. Lucids go up to 924 full. Like, the real class-leading stuff is very high voltage. And then you have other issues with the version 3 superchargers. The last big one that I'll hit you with and not bore you, because I could talk for nine hours on this one. This is the cable overheating problem.

• 1:00:05Matt Farah?

  And this relates back to thin cables?

• 1:00:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, so Tesla's, as you know, because you've tested them and charged them and driven them, they charge really fast for a very short period of time.

• 1:00:15Matt Farah?

  Right.

• 1:00:15Speaker 01

  So when you plug in at 5%, boom, 250 kilowatts, it'll rip for like a couple minutes. And then they have a really awful charging curve, all of them. And they'll come right down to, you know, by the time you're at 50%, you're at 100 or 150 kilowatts, like significantly under your peak performance. When you plug a Silverado into the supercharger network, that's a 200-plus kilowatt hour battery pack that is staying in low voltage mode, by the way.

• 1:00:41Matt Farah?

  Holy shit, is that thing 200-plus kilowatts? It really is.

• 1:00:44Speaker 01

  Silverado Hummer 215, usable. Yeah, and charging, you're putting in more because there's losses. So a 0 to 100 charging. sessions like two thirty two forty.

• 1:00:52Matt Farah?

  God damn.

• 1:00:53Speaker 01

  And you know, it could be like a hundred dollar charging.

• 1:00:55Matt Farah?

  You really fucking, you probably noticed that on your home electric bill pretty significantly, like most EVs. And I don't mean to sound elitist, because if you track every single dollar on your electric bill. You know, then maybe you would notice.

• 1:01:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:10Matt Farah?

  But if you have like a, a, a, a single family home and a family and you're running computers and refrigerators and things like that. And it's not something that you think about budgeting constantly. The truth is, you don't really notice charging your EV at home.

• 1:01:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, it also depends on your area.

• 1:01:26Matt Farah?

  And you're, yeah, but like, it's not a crazy amount of money.

• 1:01:30Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:01:31Matt Farah?

  But with a pack that size, you might actually notice it, so much juice.

• 1:01:35Speaker 01

  Not even the size, it's the efficiency, because regardless of the size, you have to replenish the electricity. So the, the less efficient your car is, the more, just like a combustion car, you're just paying for it at home.

• 1:01:45Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  And like where I live, I pay dirt cheap electricity, don't care, but here in Southern California, it can get very expensive.

• 1:01:52Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:52Speaker 01

  Especially during the wrong hours, and then you're like paranoid about what hours can you charge your car?

• 1:01:56Matt Farah?

  Right.

• 1:01:57Speaker 01

  And you have to set everything up in the backend, so it, and it's like that, this just needs to get solved right away, so we don't have to worry about demand load profile from the average user.

• 1:02:06Matt Farah?

  Turn my piss into electricity, bro. Wait, I got a tank, I, I don't have a plan yet, but I'm peeing in a tank every day, and eventually, I will. I'll, I'll run my car on that piss.

• 1:02:18Speaker 01

  Yep, it's like half of our audience right there, by the way, so sorry, guys.

• 1:02:24Matt Farah?

  If I can, I'll just like make a bomb out of it or something, I don't know. Turn it into drugs, I don't, I don't really know, I haven't gotten that far, I'm just peeing in jars, man.

• 1:02:32Speaker 01

  Dude, I, I see some wild stuff in our comment sections, and you're not far off, which is scary. Uh, but yeah, so, so you've got, you know, that, that Silverado sitting there in low voltage mode, because the Tesla doesn't support it at high voltage. And it, it's just sitting at five hundred amps for like forty minutes. And it can't do that, the cable, so the version three supercharger with those little thin cables.

• 1:02:54Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:54Speaker 01

  They're three hundred fifty amp nominal, so that's what they're rated for, they'll run all day, all.

• 1:02:58Matt Farah?

  And this thing's running at five hundred.

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  Well, the Teslas will run at 712, 700 amps. But it works fine because they they hold it for a tiny bit of time and then they come down. But as soon as you need to support other cars, now you'll plug in, you'll sit at 500 amps for a while, and then it'll just prematurely derate. So then the supercharger network can't even deliver the charging performance because of the cables. So that's been solved with the new version 4 dispenser. So there's evolutions to this. But it just feels like what would have been a better plan, I think, with Tesla would be, hey, we know we're gonna open the network, or we know we're gonna eventually build cars with better charging performance, or whatever, and put all that stuff in first, so that when you let everyone use the network, it actually works really well.

• 1:03:44Matt Farah?

  That would have been nice, wouldn't it? But this company seems like a real hamster wheel type of fucking outfit, doesn't it? You know?

• 1:03:53Speaker 01

  I definitely follow it closer than most, and half the stuff that goes on, I'm like, wow, that's not how I would do it, or that's crazy.

• 1:03:58Matt Farah?

  Your car came missing a bunch of things. You know, like, they could have waited until they had those things to deliver the car, baby. Just say it!

• 1:04:07Speaker 01

  It went in for certain, the, the, my Cybertruck went in for service a couple of weeks ago.

• 1:04:11Matt Farah?

  No, that, no, it didn't. That's fake news. Electric cars, they never need to be serviced. No, he said, he said, they never need to be serviced! Ever. He said it.

• 1:04:20Speaker 01

  They definitely do.

• 1:04:21Matt Farah?

  The king decreed.

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  Uh, they replaced the whole side panels on my truck.

• 1:04:27Speaker 02

  What? Why?

• 1:04:30Speaker 01

  I saw the service bill, and it was, you know, it's a warranty, I didn't even know they were doing that. Yeah, so you know that, like, the, the triangle upper piece?

• 1:04:37Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:38Speaker 01

  That you, you saw it was off.

• 1:04:39Matt Farah?

  It fits so well.

• 1:04:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I'm pretty sure it's because of our reviews. I don't know, I hadn't heard them doing that for other ones, but they, uh, yeah, they were like, oh, we put new side panels on your truck. I'm like, you replaced the side of my truck?

• 1:04:50Matt Farah?

  And was yours wrapped?

• 1:04:50Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:04:51Matt Farah?

  Okay.

• 1:04:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:52Matt Farah?

  I was gonna say, if they replaced it, and it was like, it was wrapped.

• 1:04:54Speaker 01

  I wonder what they would have done. That's a great point.

• 1:04:56Speaker 02

  Well, they're gonna, they're starting off in wraps.

• 1:04:59Matt Farah?

  This is one piece. Oh, yeah, we gotta do, you gotta do panels.

• 1:05:01Speaker 02

  Was it this thing, right?

• 1:05:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's not, it's not, uh, sort of A-pillar.

• 1:05:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I remember that on yours. Yours was like, yours was poking out like 2mm on the left side.

• 1:05:08Speaker 01

  Every, every few weeks, I'd push the panel in, reach in, hand tighten the bolt under there, and then it'd be fine till it backed itself off again.

• 1:05:15Matt Farah?

  I like that you have to do things on a 2024 model year vehicle that you would do it on 1968 Morgan Plus 4.

• 1:05:22Speaker 02

  This is Royal, this is Royal Enfield, Enfield ownership.

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  Dude, when the car breaks, any car, that's the best day in the office.

• 1:05:29Matt Farah?

  Yeah, if Kyle buys it, run. He knows some shit's gonna go down, he's just waiting.

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  Video content.

• 1:05:37Matt Farah?

  Yeah, if you see Kyle or Freddie buying one of them, fucking get out.

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  I saw Freddie got a Roadster, an original Tesla Roadster.

• 1:05:45Matt Farah?

  Oh, did he?

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  I just seen the thumbnail, but I gotta watch it.

• 1:05:47Matt Farah?

  Yeah, I mean, you know, the garb. Freddie, if you're fucking out there, come pick your shit box up from my South Bay store.

• 1:05:56Speaker 01

  What does he have there?

• 1:05:56Matt Farah?

  Fucking Freddie hits me up and goes, "Hey, uh, you know that Rudy Klein auction, that's the junkyard auction from downtown LA?" He's like, "I bought something, can I like, can I, can you, can I, can you get it and like, I'll send a truck, you know, in a couple of weeks?" And it shows up, and this is

• 1:06:16Matt Farah?

  by far the worst Audi Quattro coupe I have ever seen. It looks like there was a, a real fire happening in there.

• 1:06:24Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:06:24Matt Farah?

  It's not good.

• 1:06:25Speaker 01

  It's like a mid 80s one or whatever?

• 1:06:27Matt Farah?

  Yeah, early 80s, yeah. Not like a special, short wheelbase, stick blomquist one. Like one that some professor at the fucking University of Berlin drove for a couple of years. Like not, it's not a good one. It's just a very shitty old Audi.

• 1:06:43Speaker 01

  I'm fascinated by the YouTuber cars situation. I love it.

• 1:06:47Matt Farah?

  I mean, I get, like, I totally get what Freddie's doing here.

• 1:06:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:52Matt Farah?

  But not with the Audi. I get what he's doing with almost everything, up to and including the P1, although I think his math was bad on that one.

• 1:06:58Speaker 01

  Uh, makes for good content.

• 1:06:59Matt Farah?

  But, but the rest of it, but this one, it's like, the upside is you have a nice, like, pretty shitty Audi.

• 1:07:05Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah, cool. Like, I, I, uh, you know, I can justify any car by content, so.

• 1:07:10Matt Farah?

  Yeah. Um, did you see, speaking of car, did you see Shaq, uh, his two-door Lucid Air?

• 1:07:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, he got it painted and took the B-pillar out and put a long door on it.

• 1:07:21Matt Farah?

  Long door.

• 1:07:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:22Matt Farah?

  I actually think it looks kinda good.

• 1:07:24Speaker 01

  Looks great, and the wheels are choice. I love it.

• 1:07:26Matt Farah?

  Did you see it, Zach? Like, I, like, I, turning a Lucid into a, uh, personal luxury coupe. It really does look like a CL.

• 1:07:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, that looks awesome.

• 1:07:38Speaker 01

  It's sick.

• 1:07:38Matt Farah?

  Wow.

• 1:07:39Speaker 01

  Just needs to be a drop-top.

• 1:07:40Matt Farah?

  It's, it's, it's actually, like, really not bad, and the wheels look good, uh, and the color is right, the matched roof is great.

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  I don't know, that might be a factory color, now that I think about it. I think they offer Zenith Red is the name.

• 1:07:54Matt Farah?

  Um, I, I just, I am into this. I miss the era of Shaq going, uh, long-wheelbase sports car. Remember the Gallardo in the 360?

• 1:08:03Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:08:03Matt Farah?

  He stretched like a foot? This is, that's an excellent job well done. Mark Zuckerberg and his fucking, his Cayenne minivan are an abomination compared to this.

• 1:08:15Speaker 01

  Oh, he did the Turbo GT minivan.

• 1:08:17Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  But it also got a really nice GT3 Touring, which offset it.

• 1:08:21Matt Farah?

  But imagine, do, let me ask you this, Kyle. Do you think that in, in, uh, Zuckerberg's Turbo GT minivan, do you think they reprogrammed the rear steer appropriately, or do you think?

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  If it was exhibit, it was done to the highest standard and the best quality of engineering.

• 1:08:40Matt Farah?

  Imagine what happens when you go into a corner with that rear steer.

• 1:08:44Speaker 01

  It must be, well, just, I, I, I'm just trying to figure out beyond rear steer, like, how the ESP calibration would handle stuff. It must be all fucked up. Yeah.

• 1:08:52Matt Farah?

  Fucked up.

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  Think about the wiring looms, too. Cars are complicated now.

• 1:08:56Matt Farah?

  It's a Turbo GT, it's got like three and a half degrees of negative camber at the front.

• 1:09:01Speaker 01

  Why wouldn't they do the boxy one? Just get a Turbo S, not the GT sloping thing.

• 1:09:06Matt Farah?

  I do not understand. It's all dumb. That's all dumb.

• 1:09:09Speaker 01

  It really didn't even look good. I would, I hate to judge other people's builds, but I was not into that particular one.

• 1:09:14Matt Farah?

  No, and, and the problem was, he was all, Priscilla wanted a minivan, so I built her this. It's like, you missed what she wanted. Wanted in. She walks out, she's like, I just wanted an Odyssey. I just wanted, yeah. The one with the vacuum.

• 1:09:26Speaker 01

  No, they should have just put a, you know, a demon engine or whatever in a Pacifica.

• 1:09:30Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:30Speaker 01

  And then there you go.

• 1:09:31Matt Farah?

  That actually would have been the right move.

• 1:09:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:34Matt Farah?

  Hellcat a Pacifica.

• 1:09:36Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:09:36Matt Farah?

  There's your van.

• 1:09:37Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:09:37Matt Farah?

  Yeah, that's actually the correct move.

• 1:09:40Speaker 01

  Also, if Stellantis wants any chance at survival, they need to do that. I just drove their electric thing, it was so bad.

• 1:09:46Matt Farah?

  Speaking of Freddie, wasn't Freddie going to do that? Didn't he buy a van and was gonna put a, he bought a van and was gonna put a Hellcat? Powertrain in the Pacifica?

• 1:09:55Speaker 01

  They'll sell you like a hell of a thing, right?

• 1:09:56Matt Farah?

  He was gonna do that.

• 1:09:57Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:09:57Matt Farah?

  That was like a thing, I don't know. I'm gonna get back to him.

• 1:09:59Speaker 01

  I'm sure someone's done it.

• 1:10:00Matt Farah?

  He's, he's too busy repimping autos, I don't know. The, uh, where were we?

• 1:10:07Speaker 01

  We're superchargers, negatives, there's.

• 1:10:09Matt Farah?

  Oh, right. Who's handling the, the, the Tesla superchargers the best? Don't say Tesla.

• 1:10:16Speaker 01

  Um, Ford.

• 1:10:16Matt Farah?

  Ford?

• 1:10:17Speaker 01

  Cause they don't charge that well.

• 1:10:18Matt Farah?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:10:19Speaker 01

  So they're not overheating anything.

• 1:10:20Matt Farah?

  They're only, they're only running a buck fifty anyway.

• 1:10:22Speaker 01

  But the problem is their ports are so far back, you gotta like, pull that thing right up.

• 1:10:26Matt Farah?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:10:27Speaker 01

  So apparently there's like, extension cables in the works, which sounds scary to me, and I'm like, you gotta have good temperature monitoring, and I don't know. The whole thing's kind of a mess right now, which, which honestly, the quicker it happens, the sooner we can get through it, the quicker we can get to native ports, the better it'll be, that's the end of the story. But, but Tesla needs to get high voltage charging out as soon as possible.

• 1:10:46Matt Farah?

  Yeah. Um, the, uh, I, I'm excited to have an emergency backup. That's really all I want. It's like, if I can't get to the charger I want, and there's a supercharger there.

• 1:10:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:59Matt Farah?

  Okay.

• 1:11:00Speaker 01

  That's a great way to look at it.

• 1:11:01Matt Farah?

  Because it's, you know, we talked about this before. I don't have range anxiety, I have infrastructure anxiety.

• 1:11:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:06Matt Farah?

  I know where that charger is, I just can't be sure it'll work when I get there.

• 1:11:10Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 1:11:11Matt Farah?

  Has that gotten a lot better?

• 1:11:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:11:13Matt Farah?

  In our experience, it's improved a lot.

• 1:11:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, so we just, uh, actually as sort of an infrastructure test, as a video series, I don't know, we raced ten electric cars across the country.

• 1:11:23Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:23Speaker 01

  It's called the I-90 Surge. We've done it before with like, trucks on the low one, but we took the longest range and fastest charging EVs, and went. Seattle to Boston nonstop. And not a single person was stranded going across the whole country, arriving at, you know, zero percent of many charging stations. Every single station provided power. And in general, most of them provided full power on the first try. There was a handful of problems, of course, that I think you're going to be, you know, expected to have issues with. And, uh, yeah, the surge is on the out of spec motoring channel, not the reviews one.

• 1:11:59Matt Farah?

  Sorry.

• 1:12:05Speaker 01

  Doesn't matter. But anyway, uh, yeah, so that that series did great for us. It was really fun. I had a bunch of friends go and.

• 1:12:11Matt Farah?

  Was there, was it really a charging speed and infrastructure test in the sense of, okay, everyone has to keep it at eighty-five or under on the highway? So it's not a highway race?

• 1:12:22Speaker 01

  No, no, no. We, we kept it to strict maximum speed limits of no more than ten over the speed limit. And in eighty zones, no more than eighty-five.

• 1:12:30Matt Farah?

  Okay.

• 1:12:30Speaker 01

  So it was literally eighty-five maximum.

• 1:12:32Matt Farah?

  Okay.

• 1:12:32Speaker 01

  And then it, then it really comes down to the cars. So if you have a long range one, you can go farther up front. But then if you have a fast charging one, will you catch it?

• 1:12:40Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:40Speaker 01

  And it was really interesting, the results. So we actually ran, so there was technically eight competitors. And then we had two outliers. We had a first generation Tesla Model S, which was the first sort of long distance capable EV. So I wanted to see how much improvement we have.

• 1:12:56Matt Farah?

  Yeah, that's a good one.

• 1:12:57Speaker 01

  And we took a gas car.

• 1:12:58Matt Farah?

  Okay.

• 1:12:58Speaker 01

  And, um, the Taycan won, uh, by like a lot by hours.

• 1:13:03Matt Farah?

  Even against the gas car? No, that can't be right.

• 1:13:05Speaker 01

  Correct. Not against the gas car.

• 1:13:07Matt Farah?

  So Taycan won by hours?

• 1:13:09Speaker 01

  Uh, yep. So, so it was gas car and then like an, an hour and forty minutes behind that was Taycan across the whole country.

• 1:13:15Matt Farah?

  That's actually pretty good.

• 1:13:16Speaker 01

  It was amazing.

• 1:13:17Matt Farah?

  That's pretty good.

• 1:13:18Speaker 01

  And then like.

• 1:13:18Matt Farah?

  How much, who, what did you drive?

• 1:13:20Speaker 01

  Uh, I seven.

• 1:13:21Matt Farah?

  Okay. All right.

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  I knew it was gonna suck. I mean, the car's amazing, but I knew it was gonna suck for performance.

• 1:13:27Matt Farah?

  Okay, so Taycan was the best EV. And is that like a, like a rear wheel drive long range or is it all wheel drive long range?

• 1:13:34Speaker 01

  Rear wheel drive. We, we got to get the full range spec, e-spec. All of them, actually. Every single car there, except for the Model S, was specced in their. Maximum road trip configuration, which we really, we put this thing together like six weeks or five weeks before the test. We hounded all the automakers to get us the specs we needed and they made it happen. It was amazing. So shout out to all the automakers that took part, which is almost all of them.

• 1:13:56Matt Farah?

  So what was the gap between Taycan and the last place EV?

• 1:14:00Speaker 01

  Over 10 hours.

• 1:14:02Matt Farah?

  Oh, that's a lot.

• 1:14:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And then, um, yeah, maybe the last place because that was the Model S. We have somewhere the list of it, but.

• 1:14:10Matt Farah?

  The last place EV was the old Model S?

• 1:14:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:12Matt Farah?

  Really?

• 1:14:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, by a lot. That was like overnight.

• 1:14:15Matt Farah?

  So, so what, what about that car couldn't, could, didn't work today?

• 1:14:21Speaker 01

  So the old Model S doesn't, doesn't really have the range initially. So they were one of the first ones to stop. And their charging performance, they can peak.

• 1:14:30Matt Farah?

  Was it like an, at least like an 85 plus or something like that? Okay.

• 1:14:33Speaker 01

  Full range back and it actually had the newer aero wheels on it. So a slight advantage.

• 1:14:39Speaker 01

  The, the problem is the, the charging performance. So when that car launched, it actually charged pretty well. But one of the downsides of software updates is your car can get worse. Of course it can get better, but you always mentioned this, that it could get worse.

• 1:14:51Matt Farah?

  It can.

• 1:14:52Speaker 01

  And it did.

• 1:14:53Matt Farah?

  And, and, and you don't need a fucking electric car to know that. Phones get worse.

• 1:14:58Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:14:58Matt Farah?

  If you have a phone that's three or four years old, it's slower than it was when it was new.

• 1:15:03Speaker 01

  And that's exactly what happened to this Model S. And the, the charging performance is nowhere near as good as it was when it first came out. And that was also cool to kind of show that.

• 1:15:12Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:12Speaker 01

  And so it peaks at 130 kilowatts, which is faster than when it was new, but it holds it till 8%.

• 1:15:19Matt Farah?

  Oh.

• 1:15:20Speaker 01

  So you've got to plug in zero.

• 1:15:22Matt Farah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:15:22Speaker 01

  And then it just, and at 50%, you're at like 40 kilowatts. It's like.

• 1:15:26Matt Farah?

  Oh, so yeah. So that's only for plugging in at home and running errands around town, pretty much.

• 1:15:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, that, that car can do a trip. It did a trip, has three lifetime charging, whatever that worked. But no, no adaptive cruise, none of that stuff. So shout out to the team that drove that. Second place.

• 1:15:42Matt Farah?

  Yeah, the terrible fucking job.

• 1:15:44Speaker 01

  Second place was the cheapest car there, which was the new Model 3 long range rear wheel drive.

• 1:15:49Matt Farah?

  Okay.

• 1:15:50Speaker 01

  Which Tesla actually sent us a car for that, for the whole thing, which I was really kind of surprised with because we're hard on Tesla.

• 1:15:56Matt Farah?

  They sent us a car for performance EV of the year as well, which, and they sent us, um, one of their head chassis engineers as well. I was surprised.

• 1:16:04Speaker 01

  They're, they're getting more involved.

• 1:16:06Matt Farah?

  I I I like the Model 3. I I really like that it feels like the size of a car from the 90s. And like the visibility is, I was talking to Zach earlier, it's like an E30. Like really good visibility, really low cowl, like it's it's such a fucking like a cool little thing. Compared to all these other like, you know, big boats.

• 1:16:28Speaker 01

  It just sucks there's no competition for the price.

• 1:16:30Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:31Speaker 01

  That's what really drives me nuts. And that's why those Chinese EVs are.

• 1:16:34Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:34Speaker 01

  And that's why I'm so excited about them. Cause it's like, oh, it's not just Tesla doing this. There's other good cars for the money. Uh, so Model 3 was second. Third place was IONIQ 6, the second cheapest car there.

• 1:16:46Matt Farah?

  Uh huh.

• 1:16:46Speaker 01

  Amazing charging performance, good efficiency.

• 1:16:50Matt Farah?

  Can't do it. Too weird looking.

• 1:16:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:52Matt Farah?

  It's just too weird.

• 1:16:53Speaker 01

  Technically, the IONIQ 6 is faster in our simulated tests than the Model 3, but the chargers are farther off the highway than the superchargers.

• 1:16:59Matt Farah?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:17:00Speaker 01

  They were within

• 1:17:00Matt Farah?

  It all matters.

• 1:17:01Speaker 01

  15 minutes on a 3,000 mile journey and they both pushed.

• 1:17:05Matt Farah?

  That's pretty good.

• 1:17:06Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:17:07Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, the Lucid, uh, we expected to be a little bit better and it was going to come in fourth. But at the last charging stop, the team ran out of charge. They miscalculated right at the end.

• 1:17:16Matt Farah?

  Oh.

• 1:17:16Speaker 01

  And the car also, it's complicated, but essentially every single stop and everything we've done with the Lucid showed that it could go 20 or 30 miles past zero.

• 1:17:25Matt Farah?

  Oh.

• 1:17:26Speaker 01

  And then after

• 1:17:26Matt Farah?

  It didn't.

• 1:17:27Speaker 01

  Many cycles, it kind of lost a little bit of, you know, where you were and they hit zero as as soon as they hit zero, boom, they only need to go a few miles past. Car shut off.

• 1:17:36Matt Farah?

  Oh.

• 1:17:36Speaker 01

  So I I would have been in the same situation.

• 1:17:38Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:39Speaker 01

  His past performance. But anyway, yeah, it was pretty cool, fun trip.

• 1:17:42Matt Farah?

  It's a cool trip and it's a cool thing to show. I think it's really interesting. Does, does anything learned on that trip?

• 1:17:50Matt Farah?

  Really indicate how any of these cars would be to use as everyday cars?

• 1:17:56Speaker 01

  No, it's not an everyday test.

• 1:17:57Matt Farah?

  It's a road trip test.

• 1:17:58Speaker 01

  It's a entertainment piece and a great way to. Benchmark all the cars against each other in extreme scenario.

• 1:18:05Matt Farah?

  Sure.

• 1:18:05Speaker 01

  It's a bit like doing a track comparison, but instead it's a road trip comparison.

• 1:18:10Matt Farah?

  Do, I think, I, I think for a road trip, I would, I mean, my choice would be the, the Taycan.

• 1:18:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:17Matt Farah?

  It's just.

• 1:18:17Speaker 01

  Clearly amazing.

• 1:18:18Matt Farah?

  It's just such a fucking monster on a, on a road trip.

• 1:18:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:21Matt Farah?

  Such a nice car.

• 1:18:22Speaker 01

  So, right after this.

• 1:18:23Matt Farah?

  And did that have hydraulic suspension too?

• 1:18:24Speaker 01

  No, that was base.

• 1:18:26Matt Farah?

  Okay.

• 1:18:26Speaker 01

  Uh, right after this, we turned around and, uh, my buddies, Timon and Drew joined me. And we, uh, broke the cannonball, New York to LA in that one, and we got it under 40 hours for electric.

• 1:18:36Matt Farah?

  I'm sure Porsche was stoked about that.

• 1:18:38Speaker 01

  They.

• 1:18:40Matt Farah?

  They, they can't say.

• 1:18:41Speaker 01

  They can't say, but they loved it.

• 1:18:43Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:43Matt Farah?

  That's the rear wheel drive Taycan is like my favorite, my favorite one. I wish you could get the cross, the, the wagon as rear wheel drive.

• 1:18:50Speaker 01

  You can in Europe.

• 1:18:51Matt Farah?

  Of course.

• 1:18:52Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:18:52Matt Farah?

  Of course. And another reason, Russia, Europe.

• 1:18:56Speaker 01

  I drove one of the rear drive ones from, uh, Stuttgart to Istanbul this year.

• 1:19:00Matt Farah?

  Oh, man.

• 1:19:00Speaker 01

  It was amazing, that trip. Best thing I've ever done.

• 1:19:03Matt Farah?

  That's fucking cool.

• 1:19:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was like charging in like the back of some like, the Bushka's house in some random place.

• 1:19:08Matt Farah?

  That's crazy.

• 1:19:09Speaker 01

  And it was so cool.

• 1:19:10Matt Farah?

  Wow, that's fucking, I.

• 1:19:12Speaker 01

  We took four Taycan's.

• 1:19:13Matt Farah?

  That's a lot of unknowns.

• 1:19:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was the point.

• 1:19:15Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:16Speaker 01

  It was amazing. It was so cool.

• 1:19:17Matt Farah?

  Did the car find those chargers or are you using apps over there?

• 1:19:20Speaker 01

  Uh, mostly apps.

• 1:19:21Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. You, you leave the Porsche charging network after Serbia.

• 1:19:27Speaker 01

  And then you're going to like Bulgaria.

• 1:19:29Matt Farah?

  Please acknowledge you are leaving the Porsche network to unknown territories.

• 1:19:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. It worked really well though. It was, uh, you know, it's just, you know, the guy who runs Taycan comes, Mike, he was just like, I want to go to a road trip with my buddies. And they had like a couple of media from around the world come.

• 1:19:43Matt Farah?

  That sounds fun.

• 1:19:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I, I, I loved it.

• 1:19:46Matt Farah?

  And obviously you got your hair done while you were there. Um, um, let's go to the people, the Patreon. They have a lot to say, uh, today. And of course, if you want to ask questions, uh, for the program, if you want to talk to the guests, if you want to get the show ad free, get it ahead of everybody else, uh, get it, uh, what else do they get, Zach? Exclusive merchandising collabs.

• 1:20:10Speaker 02

  Do that, uh, you can watch it more live. You can, uh, get ad free stuff before it goes out to the public.

• 1:20:15Matt Farah?

  I put them on the spot there.

• 1:20:16Speaker 02

  That's fine. Um, and if you go Champion Tier, you also get ad free versions of our car reviews.

• 1:20:22Matt Farah?

  Excellent. Nice Cam says, when do you think EVs will be seen more regularly at the track? Currently, most clubs I track with don't allow them at all. Not that I would ever want an EV on track, but curious as to when you think they'll become more commonplace. This is a really weird way to write this because it's, part of the reason that EVs are banned, I think, from certain club events and track days, I think is really kind of a misunderstanding. And, and it's, it's, they, they don't have the appropriate training or maybe the appropriate equipment to fight an electric car fire.

• 1:20:59Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:20:59Matt Farah?

  Funny enough, though, at a track, it's not like that, the fire, assuming the person gets out of the car, it's not like the fire is like that likely to like burn the whole place down. You know, so it's weird to me that they're so vehemently against it.

• 1:21:18Speaker 02

  I mean, would the concern be like it would damage the tarmac of the track surface more because it would just burn, burn, burn?

• 1:21:22Matt Farah?

  Potentially.

• 1:21:23Speaker 01

  I mean, it's really, so first of all, the risk of a fire in an electric car is less.

• 1:21:28Matt Farah?

  Yes.

• 1:21:28Speaker 01

  But if it happens, which is very, you know, very rare, I want to stress, it's almost impossible to extinguish.

• 1:21:35Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:36Speaker 01

  And they burn hot. And it's crazy. So, I, I mean, our local ice racing series in Colorado that buddy of mine took part in, they just banned electric cars. I don't know if it's because he's been winning this whole time, or if it's because they're genuinely concerned.

• 1:21:49Matt Farah?

  I mean, literally, if you're racing on ice and it is capable of melting all the way through.

• 1:21:55Speaker 01

  It's like a snow course. It's not like on a lake or anything.

• 1:21:57Matt Farah?

  Okay. Oh, really?

• 1:21:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:58Matt Farah?

  Oh, well, then that's weird. What, what could happen?

• 1:22:00Speaker 01

  That was, that was my whole thing. I like, maybe I'm missing something, but I, I honestly, I can bring, I've brought electric cars on tens of tracks now, maybe 30 different tracks around the world, and I've never had an issue getting them on there. I've never been like told no.

• 1:22:14Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:14Speaker 01

  So I just think that's, it's not such a common, common thing, maybe from club events, yeah, but if you want to like rent a track to test or go to a track day, like all of our local tracks I've been to are like electric cars, I don't care.

• 1:22:25Matt Farah?

  I, I think it's the, the rule of the person putting on that track day, maybe it has to do with their insurance. Maybe they don't want to spend the extra money to have an EV ready. Fire crew there, you know, whatever.

• 1:22:38Speaker 02

  This also must might be leftover anecdotal evidence. There was a Corvette club, I think, last year, early, earlier.

• 1:22:43Matt Farah?

  That said they were gonna ban E race.

• 1:22:44Speaker 02

  Said they're banning E race. So maybe this is just.

• 1:22:46Matt Farah?

  Which is so dumb. It's 1.9 kilowatt hour.

• 1:22:49Speaker 02

  Hybrid.

• 1:22:50Matt Farah?

  It's the tiniest little fucking battery. It's so lame.

• 1:22:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, because every like every Mercedes now is 48 volt mild hybrid. So where do you draw the line?

• 1:22:58Matt Farah?

  Yeah. Um, I mean, I do think until we have pretty much track side charge infrastructure, then it's annoying, but like. I have yet, I mean, and I understand there are hardcore EV track day people and EVs for certain time attack stuff and Pike's Peak are very well suited. But I have yet to find as a recreational track day driver, any EV that I go, there's my track toy right there.

• 1:23:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I totally agree. Electric cars are incredibly capable in a straight line. Some, some of them handle really well, but they've never, uh, never been fun for me. Yeah. And never enjoyable on track.

• 1:23:36Matt Farah?

  Alex Hay says, could the affordability of used EVs be what gets people into them? Conversely, does having an internal combustion vehicle become a status symbol? Uh, similar to a luxury mechanical watch? I do think having knobs, buttons, levers is a status symbol. Look at Pagani, look at Bugatti, look at Koenigsegg. Look at these cars that are millions of dollars. What do they have? Fucking knobs and buttons. They don't have one touchscreen that controls everything. That a touchscreen is luxury up to about 150 grand and then it goes off a cliff.

• 1:24:12Speaker 01

  Totally agree. The craftsmanship in the interaction points in the car makes a huge difference to the, you know, just experience going down the road. And if you're looking for an experience, then it's not on a screen because we touch screens all day long on our phones. So if you're looking for something different or higher quality, totally agree, physical touch points. Uh, combustion engines become a bit of a status symbol. Certainly in certain markets, they're already there.

• 1:24:35Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:35Speaker 01

  In Norway, if you drive a combustion car, damn, you pay twice the price for that car and like you're bawling in that thing and.

• 1:24:41Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:42Speaker 01

  Everyone else is driving EV totally and the affordability of used EVs certainly is a great place to start for a first electric car. Like, why wouldn't you get like a, I bought a $3,000 e-Golf just to bomb around town, like as an extra car, it's awesome.

• 1:24:56Matt Farah?

  I, if you have the space.

• 1:24:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, the space is the big thing.

• 1:24:59Matt Farah?

  Cars take up space, cars are, take up resources and so if, you know, I still believe that the, the biggest holdback is

• 1:25:09Matt Farah?

  the, the availability of, of, of charging, reliable charging in, in multi-family living situations, apartment buildings, etc.

• 1:25:17Speaker 01

  It's a massive problem and that's, that is a huge issue in urban environments, multi-unit dwelling charging is insane.

• 1:25:24Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:24Speaker 01

  And, and there's no real good solution yet.

• 1:25:26Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:27Speaker 01

  There's, there's like laws that say you can't stop someone from putting in charging, but what stops them is when it's, that's 400 grand.

• 1:25:34Matt Farah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:25:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:35Matt Farah?

  Uh, Spencer with a good question, buying a depreciated EV that has lost a bunch of value since new is a great proposition, but does that bleeding ever stop? Is that depreciation going to continue? This is the problem possibly with that Taycan. Half-priced Taycan seems great, but if a half-priced Taycan loses fucking 50, 60% of that value in a couple of years. Doug Demiro was here last week and he was like, dude, there is no bottom for a Taycan. The bottom is zero.

• 1:26:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, what, at what point do these things bottom out and you like, so we've seen some cars bottom out and just sit there for a few years. So like the 500E, the Leaf market, they're all like five grand.

• 1:26:16Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:16Speaker 01

  Then there's another tier at like 10 grand for I3s and Bolts and some other stuff.

• 1:26:21Matt Farah?

  What is that early ass Model S? 15 grand, 20?

• 1:26:26Speaker 01

  15, not 20, under 20.

• 1:26:28Matt Farah?

  Under 20, okay.

• 1:26:29Speaker 01

  So, so I think Taycans will get down there.

• 1:26:30Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:31Speaker 01

  I think there's no-

• 1:26:32Matt Farah?

  There is a floor, but it's low.

• 1:26:34Speaker 01

  The, the problem with these EVs are, first of all, there's no, I just did a video on this actually. There's no third-party built-out service network for them. If your Taycan breaks and you bring it to Porsche, they're gonna say you need a 40,000, 50, 60, 70,000 dollar new battery. When it could just be a Contactor, that's like a $5 hard.

• 1:26:53Matt Farah?

  Right, yeah, that is a problem. Who the fuck is gonna work on that?

• 1:26:56Speaker 01

  I mean, a battery doesn't just die, the whole thing never, it's always a sub-component and so you get screwed with that.

• 1:27:03Speaker 02

  You know, for eventually, there will be an all-electric M3 and they can say, you know, it makes sense from a brand perspective, it worked with Mustang, Mach-E.

• 1:27:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:11Speaker 02

  They just do the marketing thing, they're like, "M3 is about this, not about gas."

• 1:27:15Speaker 01

  I'm not a good marketing guy, I don't understand how half of it works, just, I like cool, fast cars and I'm pretty powertrain agnostic, so I would be cool with whatever they're doing with electric and I think what BMW is doing now with electric really sucks from a technical perspective and what they could do in the future is pretty promising.

• 1:27:32Matt Farah?

  Chris N. says, "Who is leading the EV tech race in terms of new tech and thinking outside the box?" The Chinese.

• 1:27:40Speaker 01

  Well, so from a powertrain and like, I would say from a calibration perspective, Lucid is really doing amazing work from making cars that don't run out of steam at speed, that, you know, in general are really nicely tuned. I drove the new Gravity.

• 1:27:57Matt Farah?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:27:58Speaker 01

  And just was so blown away with that thing in terms of handling and power and, but it's an SUV, so, you know, and then in terms of software, who's winning? I mean, it's really, Rivian, I think, is coming for everyone. Wasim runs the Rivian software team, he's amazing, he's part of that new, also Volkswagen JV. It's crazy to me that Volkswagen could not come up with their own software to run their cars and they had to hire a Rivian to do it.

• 1:28:23Matt Farah?

  I'm not surprised. They, you, I think to get that software, to get software right, you need a little bit of whimsy that Germans don't have.

• 1:28:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:28:35Matt Farah?

  You know, I don't think, it's gotta be like, kind of like fun and colorful in a way that they couldn't.

• 1:28:42Speaker 01

  And it's also from an electrical architecture standpoint, Rivian's got that zonal architecture, so the Gen 2 one that you're driving.

• 1:28:48Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:49Speaker 01

  Is fundamentally different than the Gen 1 from an entire electrical system standpoint. Nothing is shared between, it's not like a little facelift, it's like a completely different electrical.

• 1:28:58Speaker 02

  Well, is that one of the benefits that VW got by giving Rivian a bunch of money?

• 1:29:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:02Speaker 02

  Like, they get this, like, "Hey, you're, you are the R&D, we take the tech, we don't need to design it ourselves," yeah.

• 1:29:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely, and they get the hardware from Rivian and the tuning and all that stuff, but Rivian's doing incredible things and the Chinese, yeah, they're, they're fast, the development time for Chinese cars is crazy, they're like 16 to 18 months sometimes for some of these cars.

• 1:29:21Matt Farah?

  Uh, let's see, Ryan Morris, I think we kinda covered this. Love my Ioniq 5. It's, oh, never mind, that's the buy versus lease question. I think you pretty much, I think, I prefer to lease. If I was just a, if I was, and I don't, if I was a person who didn't create content for a living, I would just lease something in that mid, that mid-tier.

• 1:29:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:44Matt Farah?

  That Ioniq.

• 1:29:45Speaker 01

  Great car.

• 1:29:46Matt Farah?

  You know, the Mach-E, I happen to think it was a great daily driver. I was not using fast charging very often.

• 1:29:53Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:29:53Matt Farah?

  At home, it was perfect.

• 1:29:54Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:29:54Matt Farah?

  Um, but, uh, yeah, I, but we might, maybe I'll buy something for content to see how it goes.

• 1:30:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:01Matt Farah?

  Like a, like a used Taycan, cause a lot of people ask us about used Taycans.

• 1:30:05Speaker 01

  Used Taycan.

• 1:30:05Matt Farah?

  A lot of people ask you about used Taycans?

• 1:30:06Speaker 01

  All the time.

• 1:30:08Matt Farah?

  Like, to the point where it would be worth you buying an early Taycan to see what happens?

• 1:30:12Speaker 01

  No, I don't think so. The Taycan videos don't do that well for us. They do well, but they don't do enough to offset the cost versus like, just getting a new, I just leased a new base Model 3 for Jordan.

• 1:30:21Matt Farah?

  Uh huh.

• 1:30:21Speaker 01

  And it's like, that has paid for itself 10 times over.

• 1:30:23Matt Farah?

  Really?

• 1:30:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:24Matt Farah?

  Hmm.

• 1:30:25Speaker 01

  So, you know, from a business case, I don't, I don't think I, I, plus, if I'm getting a Taycan, I want the new one with the fast charging.

• 1:30:31Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:31Speaker 01

  Our, our audience is interested in bleeding edge, what's the craziest thing?

• 1:30:35Matt Farah?

  Yeah, our audience is interested in how they can get the exotic car experience for less money.

• 1:30:40Speaker 01

  Right. What's cool is we have completely different audiences.

• 1:30:43Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:44Speaker 01

  And YouTube's been good for you?

• 1:30:46Matt Farah?

  No. Recently, awful.

• 1:30:48Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:30:49Matt Farah?

  Awful.

• 1:30:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I noticed the dip the last few months and all that stuff, but it's come back.

• 1:30:53Matt Farah?

  Hmm. We've had a couple of good ones and, cause some not good ones, but,

• 1:30:57Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:30:58Matt Farah?

  it's not been great. Yeah, it's not been great.

• 1:31:00Speaker 01

  So maybe don't buy a used Taycan.

• 1:31:04Matt Farah?

  Yeah. Um, so, I don't know if I wanna answer that one. Um, let's see, uh.

• 1:31:15Speaker 01

  Tim A, thanks for the shout out.

• 1:31:16Matt Farah?

  Yeah, yeah, stops with shout out to me. Oh, Clayton Stinger, GTS. What do you think of the idea of E-Rev's? Extended range EVs, sort of like the upcoming Ram 1500, which is an EV that has a gas sort of generator onboard. And I happen to think this is very cool.

• 1:31:35Speaker 01

  Agreed. That's the perfect solution. You are a Volt lover, as am I. And my dad actually had an ELR recently.

• 1:31:42Matt Farah?

  Oh, really?

• 1:31:42Speaker 01

  Which was really cool. And he had a Volt.

• 1:31:44Matt Farah?

  Did it hold up?

• 1:31:45Speaker 01

  Uh, no.

• 1:31:46Matt Farah?

  Okay.

• 1:31:47Speaker 01

  He bought it, made it. My dad makes YouTube videos for Out of Spec Now, so he bought it for content and sold it.

• 1:31:52Matt Farah?

  Okay.

• 1:31:53Speaker 01

  It was, it was really cool. The, uh, the concept of having an electric towing and driving experience is wonderful. When you're cruising around, as you mentioned, the best thing about driving an EV is the no lack of delay, no shifting, you just, you know, constant torque wherever you go. If you can pair that driving experience without the worry of extreme inefficiency while towing, and when you get to a charging station, having to unhook and charge deep, so it's all bad while towing, then, then an extended range EV makes perfect sense for a pickup truck application. And the only ones that we've heard of doing it is for Ram so far. But Stellantis sucks at building electric cars.

• 1:32:35Matt Farah?

  Yeah, yeah, they're not great.

• 1:32:37Speaker 01

  They really suck. That, that, I can't get over how bad that Dodge Charger was. Like, it was offensive. It was offensive.

• 1:32:43Matt Farah?

  I saw one about a month ago at Bond or, uh, Bradford, excuse me.

• 1:32:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:48Matt Farah?

  Um, and I think it was the launch there.

• 1:32:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's where we went.

• 1:32:51Matt Farah?

  So I saw an orange one there, and I just looked at it and I went, "Oh, boy, this is not great."

• 1:32:56Speaker 02

  I think it looks good, but I watched the throttle house review, which mirrors what you said. You guys are probably there together.

• 1:33:02Speaker 01

  And I was a different way, but yeah.

• 1:33:03Speaker 02

  And they were not, I mean, it's bad.

• 1:33:06Speaker 01

  I couldn't find a single redeeming quality about the car. It was not class leading in any category. It weighs a thousand pounds more than a Plaid. It makes just over half the power. It's, it's the same money. It's like twice the price of Model 3 Performance. It's not fast, it's not fun, has shit software. Every, the tuning was terrible.

• 1:33:24Matt Farah?

  And penis.

• 1:33:25Speaker 01

  Well, you're right. And the, the sound thing was crazy. And dude, it does front wheel drive burnouts. What muscle car? They're like, oh, it spins the tires. I'm like, it spins the wrong ones. What are you doing? And then you drive these Chinese cars that are 40 grand that will wipe the floor of this thing. I'm like, they are getting everything so wrong.

• 1:33:42Matt Farah?

  Bro, it's the 1980s all over again in Detroit. They're back. Deregulation, baby. Let's fucking go.

• 1:33:48Speaker 01

  They just were like, keep, just wait for the gas one. I'm like, yeah, honestly, yes, but don't launch a car like this.

• 1:33:53Matt Farah?

  Uh, Tim A actually has a good, uh, good, good idea there. The exception to EV depreciation. Is it the electric G-Wagon? I, I don't, what do you think?

• 1:34:04Speaker 01

  I don't know. I, I, Doug, I saw Doug's, uh, short. He was like, he doesn't think it will depreciate.

• 1:34:10Matt Farah?

  I think it will split the difference between the excellent depreciation of an AMG GT 63, or a G 63.

• 1:34:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:20Matt Farah?

  And an, and an EV. Like, it'll be better than a regular EV, but it will not be as good as a regular.

• 1:34:26Speaker 01

  I mean, if you park a, a 580 electric and a, and a 63 next to each other, most people are still gonna go for the 63. So, and the used market, you're essentially doing that same thing. You just might have to drive 10 miles to the next dealer or whatever. Why would most people choose the 63 over the electric? For the same money. They're the same money new.

• 1:34:45Matt Farah?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:46Speaker 01

  So I think it is gonna depreciate more. But, I love it.

• 1:34:49Matt Farah?

  Yeah, I think it'll split the difference between a regular G-Wagon and a, and a regular EV in terms of percentage depreciation.

• 1:34:56Speaker 01

  I would agree with that.

• 1:34:57Matt Farah?

  Uh, last one, Chris Doyle, and then we're getting out of here. Uh, and it's a two-parter, and it, one part sort of combines with, uh, Bush drives a 911 part. Uh, question one, can electric cars ever feel analog? Could one offer the same driving experience as a Radwood era vehicle? I think fundamentally, no.

• 1:35:19Speaker 01

  No, I agree. Probably not. Also, I'm not really sure why you would want that. In my opinion, if you want a Radwood era vehicle, buy one of those and drive that.

• 1:35:27Matt Farah?

  Well, I think what people do want is a, a new car that is as engaging as that Radwood era vehicle. And they don't want us.

• 1:35:36Speaker 01

  Getting less engaging.

• 1:35:37Matt Farah?

  I know. That's a problem too. That's definitely a problem too. And it's not, I don't think EVs need to solve combustion cars problem.

• 1:35:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:46Matt Farah?

  But, I mean. The thing that makes the Ioniq 5N, everybody's favorite EV this year, is that they're trying to do an engagement thing even at the

• 1:35:59Matt Farah?

  cost of outright speed.

• 1:36:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, so the Ioniq 5N thing, I don't think is engaging enough to fool you. I think it's enough to have fun like a video game, but you know it's not real.

• 1:36:09Matt Farah?

  Sure.

• 1:36:09Speaker 01

  And I don't fully understand your point about driving fast with the noise thing. So when I drive, when I drove the 5N on track, I've had it on two different tracks now. I, and every other electric car, I actually turn all the sound off for setting times or doing something like that. And I always find it to be a bit distracting, but I've heard it from you and many others that I totally respect in the industry, that the sound helps with corner entry speed.

• 1:36:35Matt Farah?

  Not the sound, the gears.

• 1:36:36Speaker 01

  The gears.

• 1:36:37Matt Farah?

  The gears help with corner entry speed.

• 1:36:38Speaker 01

  So then, normal electric cars with the sound make no difference.

• 1:36:41Matt Farah?

  Right, so with silence, yeah, the sound doesn't want to do it, it's the gears. So like, you know, if you are trained in gas cars, you go, okay, this is the third gear corner, fourth gear corner, second gear corner, fifth gear corner, et cetera, et cetera. When you're in an electric car, particularly if it's a car like a press car that you don't know

• 1:36:58Speaker 01

  Right, that you're still getting used to, yeah.

• 1:37:00Matt Farah?

  You know, you don't really know how much to brake, you know, for that corner entry. And you have fewer bits of information to choose from.

• 1:37:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:09Matt Farah?

  So that's hard.

• 1:37:09Speaker 01

  The gear thing was cool. I actually used it in traffic and that's where I loved it the most. Cause I'm like, oh, that's pretty cool and ripped it up the canyon, but it like makes the car slower.

• 1:37:21Matt Farah?

  You know, in my testing, it was two seconds a lap slower with the manual gears. But I did have more fun driving it with the manual gears.

• 1:37:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:37:29Matt Farah?

  I did enjoy it. And if I was doing a track day for fun in that car, I would use them.

• 1:37:34Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:37:34Matt Farah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:37:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, but 5N's amazing. They did a great job on that.

• 1:37:38Matt Farah?

  They did, yeah.

• 1:37:39Speaker 01

  If they could just take a thousand pounds out of it, it'd be amazing.

• 1:37:42Matt Farah?

  They, well, didn't they do that one that has like no body on it? They made one that was like a go-kart and it looks pretty sick.

• 1:37:47Speaker 01

  Looks so cool, yeah.

• 1:37:49Matt Farah?

  Question two, many older vehicles are worth a ton of money, air-cooled 911s, for example. Will EVs ever be a collector's item and more than a short-term appliance? C, Tesla Roadster. Tesla Roadsters are collectible, although they're the only, they're the only one.

• 1:38:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think, uh, that's the, that is literally the only one. I have some like old, like very rare electric cars. I have a couple like first-gen RAV4 EVs and B-Class electric. That's not old enough to be cool, but they're like all like a couple hundred bucks. They're like not worth anything.

• 1:38:18Matt Farah?

  A baker is maybe like 10 grand.

• 1:38:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, there is a Detroit electric, uh, those go for like a hundred grand.

• 1:38:25Matt Farah?

  Detroit electrics too?

• 1:38:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:26Matt Farah?

  Okay.

• 1:38:27Speaker 01

  Yep. So yeah, I would say yes. A powertrain does not dictate collectability.

• 1:38:31Matt Farah?

  But it, the math isn't great on it. I mean, it, it, it's, it's not a guarantee that your car will be not collectible in the same way. Being internal combustion is not a guarantee your car will be collectible. But the math says, if, if you have red hair, you are likely to have blue eyes, you know?

• 1:38:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:38:49Matt Farah?

  And, and, uh, yeah, I, I, I wouldn't start collecting them now.

• 1:38:56Speaker 01

  No, don't, don't get any of these ones. We're going through this very weird period of EV and I'm not exactly sure how it's gonna turn out. But, um, now is not the time to buy a new electric car. Lease one before the year's up, like if, yeah, I don't know when this show will go up, but like.

• 1:39:09Matt Farah?

  Like tomorrow.

• 1:39:10Speaker 01

  Okay, so in Colorado, you can get an EV6 for 150 bucks a month.

• 1:39:14Matt Farah?

  Hell, yeah.

• 1:39:14Speaker 01

  You can get an EV9 for 300 bucks a month. Uh, there, there are some incredible deals out there. Uh, Hummer EVs are 500 bucks a month.

• 1:39:22Matt Farah?

  Really?

• 1:39:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:23Matt Farah?

  Oh, if it wasn't such a fucking terrible car, I would consider that.

• 1:39:25Speaker 01

  Oh, they're hilarious. They drive over everything. They're, but you're right, it's not a great vehicle. But like, that's, that's the move right now. And but don't, don't buy one because the, the downside risk of depreciation is just, just, you know, you, it's so stupid.

• 1:39:38Matt Farah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:39:40Matt Farah?

  Always a pleasure, sir.

• 1:39:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:41Matt Farah?

  And what did you think of James May's, uh, London, London Fog, London, London Drizzle? London Drizzle?

• 1:39:47Speaker 01

  London Drizzle.

• 1:39:47Matt Farah?

  London Drizzle Gin.

• 1:39:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not typically a gin guy, but really enjoyed it. Also knowing it came from the legend James was cool.

• 1:39:54Matt Farah?

  It tastes good.

• 1:39:55Speaker 01

  Thought it was great, yeah.

• 1:39:56Matt Farah?

  Even if, even if it came from, uh, some other fucking guy named James, it's still, it's still very tasty gin.

• 1:40:01Speaker 01

  Thought it was great. Thought it was great.

• 1:40:02Matt Farah?

  Uh, out of spec, everything. There's like 20,000 fucking channels.

• 1:40:06Speaker 01

  Out of spec reviews is the main one.

• 1:40:08Matt Farah?

  Studios, reviews.

• 1:40:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's where we try to post every day. And, uh, so we do like a long video every day on reviews and then stuff everywhere else. And that's, uh, yeah, EV nerd stuff, but I have my personal channel. If you like combustion cars, I post a lot of combustion cars on there and it's all fun.

• 1:40:22Matt Farah?

  Exceptional.

• 1:40:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:24Matt Farah?

  Thank you. Oh, wow. A bad muscle car and a bad electric car. I hadn't seen the headline, but yikes.

• 1:40:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I really, probably won't go back to another Dodge thing anytime soon.

• 1:40:34Matt Farah?

  I mean, listen, calling balls and strikes over there, bro. It's not your fault.

• 1:40:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally.

• 1:40:38Matt Farah?

  Yeah, they might not be accompanied by the next one, so we'll see.

• 1:40:41Speaker 01

  That's what I keep saying.

• 1:40:42Matt Farah?

  Uh, thank you everyone for listening. Thank you to our patrons for such good questions. Sign up at patreon.com slash the smoking tire. Um, and we will have a, uh, cruise show for you for the second half of this week after we go take this motherfucking Rivian up the trail and see how it do. Thank you, everybody, and good night.