180. Dr. John Kim: The Hidden Stressors Keeping Your Body in Defense Mode

When labs look normal, it is easy to assume the body is fine or that the biggest risks have been ruled out. Dr. John Kim's story challenges that belief. At 33, after a normal lipid panel and without the classic heart attack picture, he ended up with an 85% blockage in his LAD. That experience forced him to ask what standard markers were missing. The answer led him into the deeper cellular stressors that can keep the body in defense mode: mold, mycotoxins, chronic infections, biofilms, heavy metals, emotional trauma, gut dysfunction, damaged cell membranes, and mitochondrial stress. In this episode of Extend, I sit down with Dr. Kim to talk about how these stressors can push the mitochondria away from energy production and into the cell danger response, where the body is still trying to protect itself but starts paying the price through brain fog, fatigue, inflammation, hormone disruption, gut issues, and hypersensitivity. Dr. John Kim is a functional pharmacist whose work focuses on mold toxicity, mitochondrial health, lipid membrane medicine, chronic infections, gut health, and structured detox support. This episode gives listeners a new framework for symptoms that do not make sense on standard labs, from brain fog and fatigue to chronic inflammation, hormone disruption, gut issues, and hypersensitivity, while showing why recovery has to happen in the right sequence before the body can fully rebuild. What's Discussed: (03:39) The heart attack at 33 that doctors almost missed. (05:01) Why a normal lipid panel did not explain what was happening underneath. (09:52) Why heart disease goes beyond cholesterol. (12:26) How biofilms can hide chronic infections from the immune system. (17:43) What the cell danger response does to mitochondria and energy production. (23:41) Why mold and mycotoxins can affect the brain, gut, immune system, and hormones. (42:01) How the ENCORE method helps sequence recovery from mold and cellular stress. Listen to this episode of Extend to understand why "normal" does not always mean resolved, how hidden stressors can keep your cells on defense, and why recovery may need to start with the environment, nervous system, gut, detox pathways, and cell membrane before deeper healing can happen. Thank You to Our Sponsors: Next Health Longevity Summit: Head to next-health.com/summit https://www.next-health.com/summit to secure your spot at the first ever Next Health Logevity Summit in Nashville on 9/12. IM8: Try IM8 today with a 30-day money back guarantee. You can get 10% off your first order with code DRSHAH at im8health.com/discount/DRSHAH https://im8health.com/discount/DRSHAH. Momentous: Head to livemomentous.com/fiber http://livemomentous.com/fiber and use code DRSHAH for up to 35% off your first order. Learn More About Dr. Darshan Shah: Website: drshah.com http://drshah.com Clinic: next-health.com http://next-health.com Instagram: darshanshahmd https://www.instagram.com/darshanshahmd/ Learn More About Dr. John Kim, Pharm. D. Website: drjohnkim.com/ https://www.drjohnkim.com/ Instagram: @john.pharmd https://www.instagram.com/john.pharmd

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Before we get started with this episode, I'd like to invite all of you to the first ever Next Health Longevity Summit, happening in Nashville, Tennessee, at the Conrad Hotel on Saturday, September 12, 2026. This is an all-day summit where you're going to be hearing from some of the best speakers in longevity's medicine, including Dr. Vonda Wright, Dr. Luisa Nicola, many of the podcast guests that you've heard here on the Extend Podcast, and of course, I'm going to be there, curating the entire day. We also have incredible vendors coming, so you can try the latest technologies in health, wellness, and longevity. Go to next-health.com/summit and buy your ticket today. We only have 400 spots and

• 0:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  they're going quickly. That's next-health.com/summit. I look forward to seeing you all there. Welcome to Extend with me, Dr. Darshan Shah, a podcast dedicated to cutting-edge science, research, tools, and protocols designed to help you extend your health span. Having become one of the youngest doctors in the country at the age of 21, and trained and board-certified at the Mayo Clinic, I've accumulated three decades of practice as a board-certified surgeon and longevity expert. Over that time, I've discovered that a mere 20% of health knowledge yields 80% of the results when it comes to your health span. We are living in a new era where we are creating a new healthcare system, no longer focused on disease management, but achieving optimal health and vitality. Join me as I interview

• 1:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  world-renowned experts, offering you a step-by-step guide to proactively avoid disease, and most importantly, extend your health span. Today, we're joined by Dr. John Kim, a pharmacist turned functional medicine practitioner, who shares his incredible personal journey. After experiencing a heart attack at just 33 years old, despite a normal cholesterol level, Dr. Kim discovered a constellation of underlying issues, including chronic infections, heavy metal toxicity, and even childhood trauma, all contributing to mitochondrial dysfunction. His story is a powerful testament to how complex factors beyond traditional metrics influence our cardiovascular health,

• 2:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  and we're going to delve into the critical role of what's called biofilms and the cell danger response in chronic illness. Get ready for a profound discussion that challenges conventional medical perspectives.

• 2:20Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Dr. Kim, thanks so much for joining me.

• 2:22Speaker 01

  Dr. Shaw, thank you so much for the invite. I was looking forward to this for quite a while.

• 2:26Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, I know. We met at Austin, right?

• 2:30Speaker 01

  Austin for South by Southwest Biohacker Dinner that our mutual friend Iman Hassan had put together.

• 2:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes, I was sitting next to him. I'm like, I gotta talk to you on the podcast. And so you're a functional pharmacist and I'd love to hear a little bit about your origin story. And maybe you could tell us kind of how you dove headfirst in this world of functional medicine for the pharmacy career.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  Absolutely. So you know, the crazy thing is my overall story, you know, everything that I look back, everything's connected to where I am now, into how I'm helping clients. So I graduated from pharmacy school with a doctor pharmacy degree back in 2006. A year prior to that, I was doing a ER externship. And I just had some weird cases where this particular lady came in with an uncontrolled blood pressure coming in every single week. And then having to just give her more medication, we call it the pharmacy school optimization, and having to get her out the door, but nothing in terms of talking about what we had learned about the GNC guideline at that point in time. Lifestyle changes, nothing discussed, except for just giving her more medication, getting her out.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  And just that was one of the disheartening moment that I realized that medicine in general, something that I really thought it was this whole grandiose thing, was nothing more than just becoming a pill pushing agenda. So I was looking at all the ways in terms of expanding my knowledge. And I wanted to become a certified clinical nutritionist. And at that time, I don't know if you know Dr. Jim Lovell. Yeah, so he was the one who actually really pivoted me to go through A4M and did my fellowship in functional medicine. And that's what I did after pharmacy school, completed that two years. And I mainly worked with clients dealing with hormone replacement issues, dealing with a gut.

• 4:14Speaker 01

  Uh, but what really helped to pivot in terms of looking at biotoxin and really look at the mitochondrial dysfunction was I ended up getting additional training in looking at autism spectrum spectrum disorder.

• 4:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Autism.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, so at that point in time, there was a group called Defeat Autism Now or the DAN group.

• 4:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  And I was heavily involved in that scenario, uh, got certified in training with that, learned about the biomedical treatments with autism spectrum disorder. So fast forward, two thousand fifteen, I just started my holistic pharmacy practice. And not even two years into it, I actually had a heart attack and STEMI to be exact. I had eighty-five percent blockage in my LAD.

• 4:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Wow.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  Getting a stent put in.

• 4:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  How old were you?

• 4:53Speaker 01

  I was thirty-three, I'm forty-four now.

• 4:54Dr. Darshan Shah?

  You had a heart attack at thirty-three?

• 4:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, my gosh, wow.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  I didn't have any classical symptoms of dealing with a heart attack victim, nor did I actually have a troponin level elevated. So even the ER physicians did not believe that I was going through a heart attack, even attending cardiologists as well. And they were just kept saying I was dealing with pericarditis and they were supposed to discharge me. And long story short, during echo, they found that that my left ventricle wasn't pumping well, sign of ischemia. Then they brought me to the cath lab and lo and behold, eighty-five percent blockage. I was the youngest patient to be put on a stent at that point in time. Afterwards, being in a cardiacIC unit for three days and just completely staring at a wall and then wondering what had happened was the biggest question.

• 5:38Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. And how, how did you, did you have like one lesion in one artery kind of a thing?

• 5:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, just one.

• 5:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Just one lesion and they put a stent past it?

• 5:47Speaker 01

  At that point in time, they said they had no choice but to do that because I was such a young patient.

• 5:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 5:52Speaker 01

  And uh, from, at that point in time, some of the older patients, they end up having to just give them isosor by it and then call it a day or just kind of look at, watch and see what happens.

• 6:01Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 6:01Speaker 01

  But because I was such a young patient, they decided to put a stent in.

• 6:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. So after this, um, I mean, like super scary experience at thirty-three, having a heart attack, did you go into like a journey to figure out like what was going on here with your own health?

• 6:13Speaker 01

  That's a good question. So one of the things that I end up having to be scared of is being up so young.

• 6:18Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  And there's no proof stating that taking statin drugs going to be stopping a secondary heart attack. And that was the main scare that I had. How could I prevent this from happening? Never alone, six months prior, when I actually got my lipid panel testing done, it was called, sort of quote unquote, normal. So there was no other signs except for me actually having this chest pain and having to go to the ER. And having to wonder now what's going on. So all I wanted to do was prevent.

• 6:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 6:47Speaker 01

  So I went to my integrative doctor.

• 6:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  And she actually looked at me and she thought I was dealing with some kind of tick-borne illness. So that's when this advanced blood work was done. Four weeks later, I tested positive for Bartonella. Yeah, Aspergillus antibodies, Mycoplasma pneumoniae, Epstein-Barr, parasites, and a very high levels of mercury. So as a kid, I intentionally broke mercury thermometers. I used to play with the liquid mercury. It was the dumbest thing you could do, but that's what I used to do.

• 7:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  No, I remember doing that as a kid too.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  So when you have an accumulation of these different toxins getting involved, now you're causing this type of mitochondrial dysfunction. So basically what it was, I already had a mitochondrial dysfunction as a receipt. What my bill was basically a heart attack that I was dealing with.

• 7:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, for sure, right. I mean, the heart attack is a symptom, is not the reality of what's going on. It's just, there's something else going on that you have to try to figure out what it was. And it sounds like you had a constellation of things, that you had old Lyme disease, you said you had Epstein-Barr as well. I mean, all these things together. And then, did you then go on a journey afterwards to try to heal from all of this?

• 7:56Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. That took about two years to clear Bartonella infections out.

• 7:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  How did you clear the Bartonella?

• 8:00Speaker 01

  At that point in time, we were using, well, number one thing that happened to be at that case, and this is what I into, looking at lipid membrane medicine, is that my doctor ended up using Kennedy Krieger, that blood cell fatty acid analysis.

• 8:13Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  Looking at the mitochondrial dysfunction, any lipid proxims I was dealing with. And then seeing what the underlying issue celluly, and that was a point that my blood work actually was sent to Dr. Ed Kane, who was the founder of BodyBio at that point in time. And that's how I got mentored by him and as obviously his wife Patricia Kane at that point in time. Really advancing the knowledge of the lipid membrane medicine. And that was a point where utilizing IV PC was a key thing that really helped me recover. Especially vascular inflammation I was dealing with on top of biofilms, on top of dealing with the immune dysregulation I was already having at that point in time. Due to inflammation and the mold toxicity, that really helped to transition vastly.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  I didn't realize I was dealing with brain fog until everything started to click. I'm like, holy cow, now I could see again. So that that that was a really the the triggering part that I really helped to understand that there's a mitochondrial dysfunction already happening. When you are dealing with these type of cellular stress.

• 9:11Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  Right. So that's that. And then in terms of Bartonella infection, to be clear it out, there's a particular protocol A-BART from Byron White. It's an all herbal formula specifically designed for Bartonella infection.

• 9:22Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  On top of, there's a protocol MCBFM1 is a biofilm buster made by Beyond Balance. Those are two things I utilize, but also there's an underlying issue that we're having metals as well. So at that point in time, I don't really utilize as much, but I was doing EDTA suppositories along with the IV glutathione. So, you know, many modalities being involved, but it took me about six months to clear mold and then two years to clear Bartonella infection. Now, the key thing I didn't realize that Bartonella infection, it's a very difficult infection to clear out. One of the things is that it can cause endothelial damage. And then when you take dealing with mold and mycotoxins, end up having to cause proxidation of the lipids.

• 10:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So that's probably why you had that heart attack was some endothelial damage from the Bartonella infection. Yeah.

• 10:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you don't even realize that. But another thing that I soon realized was the amount of childhood trauma that I was dealing with. So when that, when a child is undergoing through heavy amounts of trauma, especially emotionally being neglected. That's where there are a lot of signs of neuroinflammation that goes on. So it's not a blunt trauma to the head or anything of that nature or toxin getting involved, but that emotional stress, that lack of safety and then being taken care of. Those are the four things that finding out that it can trigger a lot of these issues in terms of the upstream effect that we see.

• 10:41Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  Now, there are studies now showing that especially women. Undergoing through heavy amounts of emotional neglect as a child, they have a high likelihood chance of developing autoimmune diseases, especially Hashimoto's and lupus. So it's kind of interlinked to what I'm discussing right now.

• 10:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, there's a lot of links between emotional trauma and also physical health. So just to take it back a few steps, because you talked about a lot of different things there. So we want to break down a few of those. I think one of the highlights I want to make is cardiovascular disease is not just high cholesterol. There's a lot of factors that come together. And your story is a perfect one. Your cholesterol was actually normal and you had a blockage in a blood vessel that caused you to see this dent put into your heart. And we kind of honed in that you had what's called some endothelial damage from this infection from Lyme, barnella. But you also had emotional trauma and childhood traumas that had built up. And so I think that this realization that just stress in general is damaging to our blood vessels.

• 11:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And then, you know, infections is damaging to our blood vessels. High blood pressure is damaging to our blood. All of these stressful activities in our blood vessels creates the initial damage. And then from there, the cholesterol can invade in and cause the plaque damage, right?

• 11:57Speaker 01

  Especially.

• 11:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I think that's that's one really important point that I'm glad you touched on that. It's just a really great highlight of what I talk about with all my patients is just because you have high cholesterol, doesn't mean that you'll have heart disease. And just because you don't have high cholesterol, doesn't mean you'll have heart disease as well. There's a lot in interplay there.

• 12:13Speaker 01

  Exactly. And you don't want to have a low cholesterol level either.

• 12:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  Because when you have a low cholesterol level, especially the one particular study I talk about is the 12 million, a 12 million population study that was done in South Korea. We're looking at lower levels of cholesterol below 200. They found that the overall mortality goes up rather than going down.

• 12:35Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, I saw that study, right?

• 12:36Speaker 01

  It's a huge issue in terms of the way that the modern cardiology is being practiced. I call it the plumbing job, basically. I mean, that's I that's what happened to me, right? I did I had to get a plumbing job on my heart as well. And the issue is that we don't particularly understand that there's a different biotoxin getting involved on top of stress response. And then when you have a lot of central dysfunction, there's the additive effect is causing that perfect storm, what I call.

• 13:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  The cell danger response.

• 13:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  The cell danger response, right. So before we dive into cell danger response, let's talk a little bit more about biofilms. You mentioned that a couple of times. What is a biofilm and what are some commonly seen kind of biofilms that that humans encounter? Because this is a topic we have not talked about on this podcast before, and it's such an important kind of, I would say newer realization in infectious disease and just medicine in general. So please educate us on that.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. Luckily enough, I when I was actually taking my infectious disease rotation during pharmacy school, I was in the ID team. And we talked a lot about biofilms, actually. So again, everything kind of goes back to where the connecting dot actually occurs. So biofilms, to be exact, to be simply explaining, is when you get to a lake, for instance, and you see, when you are standing above a flat rock. And you feel that you feel that particular slime, that's basically biofilm.

• 13:53Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That's a biofilm.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's exactly what it comes out to, simply put. But when you're talking about the infection, chronic infection standpoint, especially lung disease, bartonella infections, even bartonella infections there. These biofilms plays into effect into creating a cocoon, basically. So this way, the pathogen is completely hidden from your immune system. That's number one. The second is that it becomes resistant to antimicrobials, huge effect in terms of recurring reinfections. Where you feel better utilizing antimicrobials, and then after that, it comes back.

• 14:26Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  Why? Because you didn't understand the concept of biofilms getting involved and not breaking that down. This is a recurring issue, and now you're dealing with a issue dealing with resistance of the particular pathogens. And some of the antimicrobials, especially like MRSA or other type of staphylococcus getting involved. It's very hard to clear this infection down, and that's the overall nightmare that you don't want to deal with. And I've seen worse scenario cases in the hospital.

• 14:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  So simply put, that's a more acute issue. Now, when you talk about chronic infections like lung disease and bartonella, including mold toxicity. These issues end up having to cause more immune issues. As well. So chronic inflammation is a big one.

• 15:06Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 15:07Speaker 01

  The body is able to recognize pathogens getting involved. And then you notice that any type of antimicrobials, you feel better. And the next thing you know, you feel worse.

• 15:15Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Mm hmm.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  Right? Because you have a recurring issue of biofilms that's not been taken care of.

• 15:20Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  Now, the things that you could utilize, and this is something that patients have to be very careful, including clinicians out there. You need to use some type of biofilm agent to breaking that down. Now, the couple of things that readily used back back in the day was utilizing like EDTA or some kind of chelation therapy, including N S L cystine. Glutathone can be a big play, but some of the patients who are very hypersensitive, they cannot tolerate those.

• 15:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  And when you break into the biofilms, you're not only dealing with these type of slime or these polysaccharide matrix.

• 15:50Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Mm hmm.

• 15:50Speaker 01

  You also end up having to deal with heavy metals as well. So mercury and other things. And so what I call it, the perfect effect in terms of these pathogens being so smart. Putting everything together to cover themselves up. So this way they are immune to everything.

• 16:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right. And you know, can you bridge that gap for me? Because I don't really understand, how are biofilms so closely associated from heavy metal toxicities? Does one cause or relate to the other? Or are they just associative? Like, why are they always talked about kind of in the same sentence almost?

• 16:19Speaker 01

  So you end up having to be, so these pathogens end up having to be utilizing every way is possible to protect themselves. So heavy metal is a big one. So one thing that I notice oftentimes when you're dealing with heavy metals, there's always mold getting involved.

• 16:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 16:32Speaker 01

  Or mold getting involved with heavy metals. Because the way that the bodies end up having to utilize is when you have a heavy metal toxicity. It utilizes mold to compensate ways to protect the cell from further damage.

• 16:46Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 16:46Speaker 01

  So it's very much a smart compensatory mechanism that the body's under going through.

• 16:50Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 16:50Speaker 01

  Is intriguously, intuitively very smart in doing that.

• 16:54Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 16:54Speaker 01

  Now, when you're adding in things like parasitic infections as well. Parasites also harbor not only heavy metals, but mold and then lime. So when you are doing any type of parasite cleanse, for instance. You do see a recurrence of Lyme disease can actually occur or even Bartonella.

• 17:09Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 17:10Speaker 01

  Uh, so these are things that you really have to be careful of. Because when you have a patient who are hypersensitive dealing with, let's just say, MCAS.

• 17:17Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 17:17Speaker 01

  True triggers can actually cause a setback on some of them.

• 17:21Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, on the biofilm topic too, like I think that one of the ways I was exposed to it as a surgeon is sometimes you get, you put implants in people and they would get covered with a biofilm and the person would have a long-term chronic infection that you just could not get rid of because a biofilm would almost be like a slime around that implant, right? And so then, to your point, like antibiotics, it wouldn't touch it because the biofilm is basically serving as a shielded, protected house for those bacteria to live. So people that are chronically sick, they should really look at potentially having the implants removed because implants can harbor these long-term chronic infections in the biofilm around the implant.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, even pick lines. I've seen pick lines having to deal with these, the slime built up all over when they're taking it out. I've seen that happening in the surgery unit as well. So it's really interesting how these pathogens are becoming so smart and surviving, basically.

• 18:21Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, I mean, yeah, they do, evolutionarily, they do what they're meant to do is just find where they can survive and they find the biofilm and they survive inside your body.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:33Dr. Darshan Shah?

  This episode is brought to you by Momentous. So as a doctor, one of the questions everyone always asks me is what supplement should I really be taking? And honestly, before you even pick what's the right supplements for your body, you always need to think about whether you can trust the brand that you're buying or not. Here's where most people don't really take into consideration. The supplement industry is barely regulated. Brands don't have to fully disclose every ingredient in their formulas and most products are never tested for purity or accuracy. That means a lot of the products that you buy online, you're not actually getting what's on the label. And that's absolutely not acceptable and it shouldn't be acceptable to you either. That's why I partnered with Momentous.

• 19:17Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Momentus is a brand I really believe in. Why? Because they created their own standard, which exceeds what the industry normally talks about. The Momentous standard means they source the highest quality ingredients.

• 19:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Use clinically validated formulations and they test every single product and every single batch. Every Momentous product is also certified by NSF for sport. This is a gold standard of third-party testing. It checks for contaminants, heavy metals, banned substances, and verifies what's on the label is exactly what is actually in the product. And they publish those test results directly on their website. So you can see it for yourself. You'll see there's no unnecessary fillers. There's no artificial additives. So you don't have to guess if your product is high quality or not. You know it is when you pick Momentous. If you're going to invest in your health, trust the supplements you're taking. And Momentous is built on trust. Go to livemomentous.com

• 20:15Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And use the code DRSHAO for up to 35% off your next order.

• 20:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  You know, the next thing you talk about too is the cell danger response. You talked about that a little bit. Can you talk about what that is and why people need to know about it?

• 20:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. Cell danger response was a coined term by Dr. Robert Navio out of UC Davis here in California. And he started working with a lot of the auto inspection community since 2014 and describing about why there was such a stuck response of patients are not able to resolve their chronic issues. So in that scenario, he was describing about auto inspection disorder. So when you're looking at that case, we are understanding that cell danger response is an evolutionary effect of how the cell, especially the mitochondria, is trying to protect the body from further harm. So case in point, some of the stressors that I usually end up having to talk about and within the study of Dr. Robert Navio's work, he studied these,

• 21:14Speaker 01

  he published these data since 2014. He has a metabolic lab to prove all these things. Stressors, especially like the biological stress, you're talking about mold, parasites, bacteria and viruses. And then there's other chemical stressors, especially like BPA. And then you're talking about heavy metals, you're talking also about some of the environmental toxins, glyphosate. And then the other aspect in terms of the physical traumas, like traumatic brain injury. Now you're dealing with UVA and V V radiations, right, X rays, another thing that could cause a lot of the cellular damage and DNA damage. And then the the last part that often that's not really talked about the psychological, emotional trauma that occurs. So when you have all these stresses getting involved, mitochondria detects all these things.

• 21:57Speaker 01

  Instead of making ATP now shuts down oxidative phosphorylation, it goes to glycolysis, which is a more inefficient ways into creating energy. But what's happening is that the mitochondria sensing this danger.

• 22:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 22:08Speaker 01

  Now shifts into defense mode. Trying to figure out, all right, can we heal, can we resolve this issue, or we're still in the threat? And this is what the mitochondria is undergoing. Unfortunately, people deal with chronic infections and chronic issues. The particular threat mode and the danger and the this defense mode the mitochondria is dealing with. Mitochondria does not know when to shut that off.

• 22:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Got it. So the mitochondria are in this defense mode for long periods of time, right? And that's the what you're saying is like the cell danger response? And then so what do we do about this? Well, what is a negative of being in the cell danger response? Is it chronic inflammation? Like, why can't they be in this danger response for a long time?

• 22:49Speaker 01

  Well, like I mentioned, mitochondria not only making an energy, but it's also detecting everything that's going around it. So instead of actually making, like I said, ATP now is in the defense mode. So the mitochondria now shuts down the entire cell to cell communication that's going on, including energy production. On top of now mitochondria dumps that ATP that being produced intracellular to extracellular. This causes cell signaling to other cells, saying that there's a danger going on. So that's what's called a danger associated molecular pattern.

• 23:20Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Got it.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  And that could further causing other cells to be degraded. And then when you're having this type of issue going on, you also end up having to cause a mitochondrial dysfunction. When you have a mitochondrial dysfunction, you actually have a damaged cell membrane. And that would the membrane, we understand in terms of bilateral structure, in terms of dealing with the phospholipid bilater. And then other fatty acid that could be damaged, leading into your electrons, especially your electron transport chain not functioning well. You're dumping electrons, you're. Have a low redox potential and leading into a low energy state. And that's what people dealing with chronic infections and chronic issues end up having to go through. And it's a common issue that we see in people dealing with mold toxicity.

• 24:03Speaker 01

  Cause mold impacts mitochondria by causing this called a lipid peroxidase. Right? So the lipid membrane that very much of a hypersensitive phospholipid bilateral structure gets damaged. From the mold issues, especially like triglycerides and Okotox can be a common things that could impede in this process.

• 24:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And is that the mitochondria membrane you're talking about or the cell membrane or both?

• 24:26Speaker 01

  Cell membrane both because your mitochondria is wrapped up with the with the actual cell with the membrane. It's also a lipid bilateral structure. And within that matrix, what we understand from biochemistry is you have the Krebs cycle electron transport chain being involved. But one of the key things that we also notice is that within that bilateral structure, there's another layer of hypersensitive phospholipid called cardiolipin.

• 24:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 24:51Speaker 01

  And then this cardiolipin being damaged and it's very hypersensitive to oxidation. So one thing that I actually mentioned about, especially within the longevity space is that when you have a cell membrane that's damaged from these particular toxins, especially when the body's going to go in cell danger response. The cell is not going to invest in getting the body back in order. Especially looking at longevity standpoint, except for now going into standpoint in terms of defense mode. So the investment of longevity aspect of it is missing there oftentimes.

• 25:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 25:25Speaker 01

  So case in point, like one of the peptides I love sometimes recommending or at least talking about is the SS31, right?

• 25:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  That particular one is helpful mitochondria, but it actually binds to the cardiolipin. So when you have a cardiolipin that's damaged, then you have to have issue dealing with the fact that these peptides are not going to be functioning very well. And some of the other peptides as well, when you think about this, it has to bind some of the receptors in the cell membrane. If the cell membrane is damaged due to these type of different biotoxins, unless you could these type of damages first. The longevity aspect that people are investing, it becomes a far reaching point.

• 26:01Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, yeah, for sure. So a little bit more on just mold toxicity. So you know, there's different ways molds can affect our body, right? The mold spores themselves can colonize us, there's mold toxins. And mold can come from different places. Most often, it comes from like a damp home. Can you break down mold for us a little bit and why people need to know about it?

• 26:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. So mold is a huge issue. The reason being is it's been with our civilizations since the dawn of time.

• 26:28Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, it's written about in the Bible, right?

• 26:30Speaker 01

  Right. Especially in the book of Leviticus, it talks about God telling the Israelis to burn the house down if the house has been defiled with mold. It's how seriously that is. Now, one of the thing about overall data is looking at forty-five percent homes in United States, it has water damage.

• 26:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 26:48Speaker 01

  Issue going on. And within that, it's not just that, that there is a eighty percent of that houses are still lingering issue dealing with it. Pre-existing mold issue that's not been resolved. So these mold end up to be involved in terms of trying to colonize the house. But now, you know, to survive, they end up having to release these toxins called mycotoxins, right? And mycotoxins are invaders of your entire cell.

• 27:13Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 27:13Speaker 01

  Right? And trying to survive. But when you are also dealing with these issues, not only dealing with homes, you're also dealing with food. So twenty-five percent of the food that we are eating right now is contaminated with these mold and mycotoxins as well. So specifically, a common things that people drink is coffee, or coffees deal with ochotoxin. And ochotoxin is nephotoxic. It can also create a huge issue dealing with neuroinflammation by crossing the blood-brain barrier. It also impedes in this electron transport chain, especially complex one, three, and four. So you're not producing energy, and then now you're dealing with lipid peroxidase. So you have a lipid membrane that's damaged, now you're dumping out these ATP, where the body is now undergoing these things like brain fog, right?

• 27:56Speaker 01

  Because your brain is full of rich mitochondria and phospholipids. So when you damage that, the first common symptoms that people are dealing with when they're dealing with mold is brain fog. Some of the chronic issue dealing with like UTI for women. Ochotoxins has been. Associate dealing with chronic UTI issues. So if you have, if you have issue dealing with the chronic UTI cannot clear with antibiotic. There's studies showing utilization of antifungals help to clear the infections out.

• 28:22Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, really?

• 28:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 28:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Interesting. I had no idea.

• 28:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. So those are common things that you see. And then you are also dealing with the fact that ochratoxins also cause the breaking of the gut barrier. Colonizing that. And then they end up having to make stefacoccus, Listeria, and E. coli to grow exponentially as well. So why? Because they impede and blocking the immune system from recognizing this is the play of whole problem with mold creating immune dysfunction. Especially immunosuppression.

• 28:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, yeah. So when you said mold, it comes in food and in your air or multi houses, right? So how big a problem is food mold? Because you know, this is something that we test for here at our clinic. But a lot of times, like, you know, when I talk to other doctors treating mold, they kind of just discount it. They don't say, oh, it's a real thing to treat. But you know, we do see a lot of positive, like, ochratoxin, for example. Do you think it's a real problem that people need to be looking at?

• 29:18Speaker 01

  It is huge issue. Even aflatoxin isn't the other mold toxin that can be damaged.

• 29:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Like grains and nuts and stuff.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  Grains, nuts, especially peanuts have high levels of aflatoxin. Peanut butter, for instance, I tell my clients not to eat any nut butter because of that specific reason. Even coffee wise, they want to avoid as much as they can or find coffee that are very clean, that tests for mold and mycotoxins really.

• 29:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And some coffee companies do that, right? They do mold testing? How do you find out if your coffee has been mold tested or not?

• 29:47Speaker 01

  They will have to disclose that issue.

• 29:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So it's on the bag, right?

• 29:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. Yeah.

• 29:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, it's been like they'll say there's like some seal or something that says mold.

• 29:54Speaker 01

  Well, they will say they take tests for mold. So Life Coffee is another one that's brand that actually does these things as well. And then there are issue dealing with some of the things like moldy, moldy cheese. Right?

• 30:06Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  You have aged meat that can actually have traces of these mold and mycotoxins as well. So that if you like aged, aged meat, for instance, there is a particular risk you're dealing with these things. So whenever I see clients who are hypersensitive to mold, one thing that I. Do is I do look at their food.

• 30:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 30:23Speaker 01

  Right. I do have a very strict elimination diet that they have to follow through about three months. And then they could start reintroducing these food.

• 30:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 30:31Speaker 01

  Generally, I recommend patients to eat a very clean, paleo-based seasonal diet.

• 30:36Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 30:36Speaker 01

  Cause seasonal in terms of you should be eating more locally based on the season that you're in. Cause that food is really helpful for your mitochondria function.

• 30:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 30:45Speaker 01

  So everything to de-stress from the mold issues that I try to do. And it's just adding in food that's going to be very helpful for their mitochondria and cellular function.

• 30:53Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Got it. And so you get diagnosed with mold, okay? And so let's talk about first, like, what is the, what does that mean? Like, yeah, I got diagnosed with mold. You hear people coming into the clinic all the time saying that. How is that diagnosis even made?

• 31:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, there's several ways of looking at this right now. So I look at few tests. Number one, I'm quite sure, you know, Dr. Shoemaker with his chronic SIRS markers. So some of the inflammatory chronic inflammation markers I look at.

• 31:20Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 31:20Speaker 01

  So especially VAGF, MMP9, those are really the big sign that there is an undergoing mold issue going on.

• 31:26Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right. So that's measuring, those are markers of chronic inflammatory response syndrome. Which is a syndrome that comes from chronic mold toxins and exposures. And can you talk a little bit about what are some of the symptoms of that, of that syndrome?

• 31:40Speaker 01

  So it could be hormonal dysregulation, immune dysfunction, hypersensitivity issues. They have trouble clearing it out, clear the mold toxin out. They are reactive to the moldy environment they get reintroduced to. Oftentimes, these clients end up having to feel much better when they're out of their moldy house. And especially when they are on vacation, they feel much better.

• 31:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 31:59Speaker 01

  And then they come back and they get sick again.

• 32:01Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. So I think in general, what people talk about is like, if you have multiple systems that are affected in your body. Brain fog and GI issues, et cetera. And when you go in and out of a moldy environment, whether it be your home, your school, your place of work, and the symptoms go away. This might be a kind of sign that you should get checked for chronic inflammatory response syndrome, right?

• 32:24Speaker 01

  Could be that, but also there's, there's a huge issue dealing with a hormone and gut issues on top of hypersensitivity problem that. I just mentioned about that's gonna be all interlinked with that process. Now, one of the things that I do utilize is urine mycotoxin testing. So Vibram Wellness is one of the things that I recommend. But also, I sometimes looking at a real, real time labs, another one that I look at as well.

• 32:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Real time labs, okay.

• 32:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, so Vibram Wellness actually does very well into looking at the EMI exposure going on in the environment. And it's very hypersensitive. It does a good ways and does a magic for mycophenic acid as well. So mycophenic acid, for instance, it is a immunosuppression, immunosuppressant. That's coming from the serine family of the mold. And that could play into a lot of issues with the immune dysregulation the person might be dealing with. So one of the tests I'm looking at. Now, there are limitations of this particular urine mycotoxin testing. Because if you're chronically exposed to mold, your, these mold are lipophilic. Hence, it can be lodged into the fat cells, including tissues. So unless you're using provoke urine to release these things. Sometimes when you're doing urine mycotoxin testing, you saw that, you see that the results are low.

• 33:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 33:31Speaker 01

  So things I really like to adding is minerals, especially molydianum. Can actually help release sulfur related mold toxins like leotocin. Resveratrol and turmeric are some of the top things that I like to looking at. Sometimes I like to, or not sometimes, I do sometimes adding in sodium butyrate as well. Because butyric acid actually act as a chemical chaperone. So it actually clears off like aflatoxin, which is causing DNA ad hoc. So it's what you are seeing in the particular urine testing. So this is a part that I learned a lot about how fatty acid is critical. To help release these mycotoxins correctly, and you could see that better results in looking at this.

• 34:11Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So, so you're saying before you get a urine test for mold, it might be beneficial to take some of these, like you said, curcumin, berberine?

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Berberine, molydianum.

• 34:20Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Molydianum.

• 34:20Speaker 01

  Right, so.

• 34:21Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And that way, that'll, how many, how many like hours or days before?

• 34:25Speaker 01

  I would do that for about seven days.

• 34:27Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Seven days before you do a test, okay. So then, this is gonna draw it out of your tissues. Then your urine will excrete it and you'll have a positive test. Now, now you know like, you know, this is, it's in your tissues.

• 34:38Speaker 01

  Right, and then even I learned it from the disc pod. Part learned from Dr. Neil Nathan, he actually utilizes liposomal glutathione as a waste in terms of orally to help release his toxins as well. Now, some people are not able to tolerate that at all. So when you're talking about high levels of gliotoxin getting involved, these patients are very sensitive to sulfur-containing supplements, especially glutathione and such. So you don't want to overly challenge these patients. So this is where proper use of bioflavonoids, including minerals, can be helpful in terms of release these things.

• 35:11Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Got it.

• 35:11Speaker 01

  At the same time.

• 35:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 35:13Speaker 01

  Butyrate I love using to do that as well. So that's one particular test I look at. The other one, gut stool testing.

• 35:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, okay.

• 35:20Speaker 01

  If you're looking at the markers of gut inflammation that plays into huge effect. One of the things I like to look at is the secretory I G A level. So when you have very high levels of secretory I G A.

• 35:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  In the stool test.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  The stool testing.

• 35:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 35:32Speaker 01

  And we see that there's a hypersensitive dealing with food sensitivity. So that's a good way to looking at and how the immune dysfunction actually occurring due to mold issues. We also see that their butyric acid levels also depleted as well, especially short-chain fatty acid production. And we see the levels of particularly gut dysbiosis, namely it could be SIBO. Or when you're seeing SIBO, I generally look at the fact that there is a SIFO going on, small test of fungal overgrowth. And oftentimes with stool testing are not sensitive to detect the fungal.

• 36:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 36:04Speaker 01

  So I end up having to work on the gut function first before I do anything in terms of systemic mycotoxin issues.

• 36:09Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. Yeah. And so the gut is very, very much involved in mold toxicity as well.

• 36:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:15Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And so, like you said, you're, you're actually treating the gut to healing the gut as you're treating the mold toxicity.

• 36:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, that should be the focal point first before I do end up having to do anything related to that. Because if it was constant gut inflammation going on, they cannot even absorb food to begin with. They cannot absorb some of the essential fatty acid I recommend patients to do. So this is where critically working on the gut function is for the foremost important thing that I work on. While we reducing the fungal overgrowth.

• 36:44Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  So things I like to use is like monolorn, for instance, golden thread, sometimes adding in morinda, some of the other herbals.

• 36:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  These are herbals that you can use, yeah.

• 36:53Speaker 01

  To help reduce that fungal overgrowth in the gut, while the X also has an effect as an antimicrobial to reduce things in the bacterial overgrowth as well.

• 37:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm. Okay. So, so you're seeing a patient with a, with mold symptoms. Um, and you can do testing for SIRS, you can do urine testing for mold that is provoked. You can also do stool testing for secretory I G, I G A, you said, right?

• 37:16Speaker 01

  And the gut dysbiosis.

• 37:17Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, and gut dysbiosis. And once you get all these tests together, you get a good picture. You start focusing on the gut first and then from there, um, hopefully that'll help start clearing the mold. I think there's certain detox techniques you can use as well, uh, probably like sauna, for example. Is there anything else you can add to that?

• 37:34Speaker 01

  So sauna can be great effect in terms of doing that. So what I like to do is I like to use some of the binders, uh, and as well as adding in TUTKA. As a ways to increasing a bio product, a bio flow. So that you could actually help to release these things when you're doing any type of a sauna.

• 37:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Which binder do you use?

• 37:53Speaker 01

  Tukisumi is one of the ones that I like to use. Sometimes I like to use, uh, QuickSilver's Ultra Bind is another good product as well. So, or if I have hypersensitive patients, sometimes just utilizing Pectin or aloe vera could be very helpful with that process.

• 38:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Got it.

• 38:08Speaker 01

  One of the things that I end up having to, uh, say is that you gotta really see what that patient's journey is. A lot of times patients, I know in a different scenario, they cannot tolerate regular binders. Nor they can end up having to tolerate sauna, for instance. So for me as a clinician, I have to looking at and understand, uh, where is this particular patient actually fit into the entire criteria? So sequence actually really matters in terms of how to approach this. So I mentioned about right now, the restoration of the gut microbiome and such. That's probably the last thing I'll look at. I'm looking at how the person's environment is factored in, in terms of mold exposure, uh, including non-E V M F and blue light issues, especially light, toxic light can be a huge trigger in terms of causing hypersensitivity issues, especially causing nervousness, dysregulation and mast cell priming. And then the second part is looking at how the nervousness is functioning.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  Cause if they're constant a photofly response, there's no way they're going to be able to tolerate detox.

• 38:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm. Yeah, that's, that's absolutely true. Yeah, it's also inter, interrelated.

• 39:05Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hi, Dr. Shaw here. I want to take a minute to talk to you about cellular health. So in my clinics, I've actually seen 30-year-old people with cells that look like they're pushing retirement. And I've also seen 60-year-olds with cells that look like they're 40 years old. So what's the difference? It's really about how fast their telomeres are breaking down. Your cells, you see, are like phones, and they have limited cellphone battery. Poor sleep, stress, processed foods, all of these things can drain that battery way faster than it should. So this is the reason why I partnered with IM-8. IM-8 powers that cellular battery. It's not just another multivitamin. It's a comprehensive 92-ingredient formula designed specifically for cellular health and longevity.

• 39:50Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I'm talking 900 milligrams of vitamin C. That's like 20 oranges worth of DNA protection. The clinical dose of CoQ10 that you need to power your cellular engine. You also get zinc, selenium, vitamin E, alpha lipoic acid. All of these work synergistically for cellular repair and protecting your telomeres. So instead of taking a handful of pills every day and all these supplements, IM-8 actually gives you everything that you need in one scientifically formulated system. And this isn't just a theory anymore. IM-8 had partnered with Oxford University, the International Space Station, San Francisco Research Institute, and they've done studies. And they've gotten this NSF certified to truly power your health.

• 40:33Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Most people are aging twice as fast as they should, unfortunately. You don't have to be one of them. Try IM-8. I actually have a discount secured for you if you go to drshah.com/Im8 or go to im8health.com/discount/DrShah and you can get 20% off with my discount code, DrShah. You can also find the link below.

• 40:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And then I think, you know, it's a long, it sounds like a long process. There's a lot to do, but then you also got to think about also rebuilding the cell membrane too.

• 41:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And so, you know, we could talk a little bit about body bio and PC phosphatidylcholine, IV phosphatidylcholine versus oral. Can you tell us, can you take us through kind of like rebuilding the cell membrane?

• 41:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:18Dr. Darshan Shah?

  How that works?

• 41:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. So, audience out there, if they're not knowing what happens is that, you know, one of the clear thing is more, especially microtoxins, end up having to cause the damaging of the cell membrane. It's called the lipid proxies. And these fats being oxidized end up having to create something called renegade fats. And so, in order to fix that particular issue, the reason being is these are end up having to impede how you're producing energy, but how you end up having to detox. And when you talk about detox alone, you need to have energy production going on, right? So, people forget about this thing. Like, you need to have a building block as ATP to detox.

• 41:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  So, if you don't have a well-functioning cell membrane, you can utilize these things.

• 41:56Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 41:57Speaker 01

  Right? And then there's other things in terms of different biotoxin getting involved as well to create further issue to inflammation. So, this is where lipid replacement therapy could be very helpful. So, one thing that I look, really hope to explain is that, few things. One of the things, you actually have a bilateral structure. The outer structure is comprised of phospholipids, so phosphocholine.

• 42:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  And the inner part of the membrane is, you have bilateral. So, inner part of the membrane is comprised of linoleic and alpha-linoleic in a four to one ratio.

• 42:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  So, in order to fix these particular damage that goes on, adding in the right supplementation could be very helpful to replace the damaging fats.

• 42:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  So, one of the things I like to use is liposomal phospholipids from a body bio. It's called body bio PC. And then the other one is the balanced oil, which helps to replace the oxidized linoleic acid, put in the healthy factor. And this actually helps to mend the cardiolipin issue that I mentioned about as well. So, a well-functioning aspect of it. Now, the one of the critical thing that more toxins do also, I mentioned about DNA adduct, how mold end up having to bind to the DNA structure in the cell membrane.

• 43:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  To block and reversing these things, this is where. Chemical chaperones, like butyric acid is very helpful. So sodium butyrate can be very helpful in this scenario to cleave off that. But there's a damaging issue to a protein misfolding when you have a cell membrane that's damaged. So this is what TUTG, it's a secondary bile salt, helps to relieve the stress from the endocrine reticulum and helps to unfold that protein misfolding.

• 43:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  Right, so there's a more of a four-way approach in terms of fixing the damaged cell membrane and creating better electrical charge and energy. And one of the last thing that I will also add in is minerals. Right, your cell membrane is comprised of minerals. If you don't have a mineral-rich aspect of it that's being supplied, that is going to critically affect that. But one of the things now that I'm seeing more and more, Doc, is that because of the underlying issue with non-native EMF now, there's a much bigger issue in terms of having lack of intracellular minerals, especially magnesium getting involved.

• 43:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Is that because of what?

• 43:59Speaker 01

  Non-native EMF.

• 44:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  EMF.

• 44:01Speaker 01

  EMFs. So the study is showing now, non-native EMF actually causing a depolization of the cell membrane, causing influx of calcium and then dumping out magnesium. So this is an ongoing issue that involve in terms of creating bigger mess in the cells. Not only you're dealing with mold, now you're dealing with non-native EMF.

• 44:22Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 44:23Speaker 01

  And years ago, Dr. Klinghardt had a study that he showed where everyday non-native EMF was radiation, was getting absorbed by mold, and the mold was producing 600 times more mycotoxins.

• 44:37Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Really?

• 44:37Speaker 01

  Yes. So you talk about the environment now, right? Why is that people getting sicker and sicker? Is the fact that the underlying issue is the mold getting bad? Or is it because of the non-native EMF getting involved?

• 44:48Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Something we're adding into the.

• 44:49Speaker 01

  Correct, and then you'd also talk about the fact you have a damaged cell membrane. The body is not able, the cell is not able to undergo in terms of proper energy charge and then having the right structure. And the damaging effect of mold and non-native EMF is a cyclical problem that we cannot get through. So you need to build a cellular resilient body than anything else.

• 45:06Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, yeah, and I think it's also important for people to know that these are some supplements around fixing the cell membrane that you could take even whether you have mold or not. Constantly damaging our cell membranes with so many other environmental factors, toxins, etc. So it's important to constantly be repairing that cell membrane at the same time.

• 45:26Speaker 01

  It really is, and that's the most critical part that I work on, even start before doing any type of detox work. Cause you need to have a well-functioning cell membrane. So for me, most important thing is adding in body bio PC, their balanced oil, totka as well as sodium butyrate as more the four things that I actually add in it in terms of helping with the cell membrane structure.

• 45:46Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 45:46Speaker 01

  Now, one of the things I like to use is glutathione as well.

• 45:50Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  But that comes in later part when the hypersensitivity issues is calm.

• 45:55Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 45:55Speaker 01

  And then that's when the proper antioxidant support is critical for cellular proper, uh, cellular recovery.

• 46:01Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, yeah. And so let's bring it all together for the audience because we talk about a lot of different things. I know you have a really good structure to put this together for people. We call the encore method, right? Yeah. What does that mean?

• 46:12Speaker 01

  So encore method is a sequential roadmap to recovering cell danger response. And specifically, this is a case in terms of mold toxicity. So what does that stand for? Environmental factor, nervous system regulation, cell you optimization, optimizing detox path rate, rebalancing microbiome, enhancing resiliency. Why does that matter? Is because if you don't address the environment in terms of the type of mold, or at least the toxin getting exposed to, as well as regulating your nervous system properly, there's no way you're going to be able to detox properly there.

• 46:41Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 46:41Speaker 01

  Now, we talked about Shoemaker early on when we were out there discussing about it. But Shoemaker, well, the critical part is that they tell clients to get out of the moldy environment as critical, as best as they can.

• 46:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  Cause if not, it's very hard to recover that process. And there's a huge truth in that. So people out there, the environment really matters. The environment, especially your home, has to be a sanctuary for you to heal.

• 47:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  And this is where mold exposure, but also non-native BMF is a critical part, right?

• 47:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 47:08Speaker 01

  And then when you are not able to regulate your nervous system, especially constant that fight or flight state.

• 47:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 47:12Speaker 01

  Right? That's going to impede in terms of how your entire cells are functioning. But you could be very, very much reactive to the environment itself. And so this is where somatic work, EMDR, I like to teach some. Heart coherent breathing technique as well.

• 47:28Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  Heart, heart math.

• 47:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 47:29Speaker 01

  Really help to create coherence in the body.

• 47:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  And that's going to help create a more resilient nervous system to be less reactive. And I've had remarkable changes in patients, especially.

• 47:40Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, I think we're having someone from HeartMath Institute coming to the podcast.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  Oh, great.

• 47:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Really excited. I've been using HeartMath for many years.

• 47:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, so that's non-negotiable. I actually give a HeartMath device to my clients.

• 47:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Ah.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  When they start working together.

• 47:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That's great, yeah.

• 47:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's an early, early step. It does work in the environment and the nervous system.

• 47:55Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, so for the audience, HeartMath is a little device that's still on the ear, right? Or also a finger you can wear?

• 48:00Speaker 01

  Uh, just the ear.

• 48:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, ear device, yeah. And it measures your heart rate variability, but it also gives you neurobio feedback while you're measuring it. So you can regulate your sympathetic nervous system balance, right?

• 48:13Speaker 01

  Correct, and it's measuring something called the coherency state.

• 48:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Coherency state, right.

• 48:17Speaker 01

  So heart-centered coherency where we forget our heart acts just forty thousand different nerves. So intuitively, it's able to feel everything, but that also measures the resiliency state to handle stress.

• 48:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Well.

• 48:30Speaker 01

  So the better coherency score you actually have, the better resilience state you actually have. And having better autonomic flexibility in dealing with sympathetic and parasympathetic.

• 48:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 48:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, and then after that, we have to go to cellular optimization. So let's talk about that.

• 48:48Speaker 01

  Cellular optimization, I mentioned about body valve product.

• 48:50Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yep.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  More the critical thing that I also like to add in is circadian rhythm.

• 48:54Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay, yeah.

• 48:55Speaker 01

  So why? You have to recharge your cells.

• 48:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 48:57Speaker 01

  And that's through the sun and infrared. Those are really the critical part. I know the tools that you have, especially Immortal, that plays into huge effectiveness of recharging cells. But you're also able to do that when you actively ground for free, as well as getting the proper sunlight for free as well. And that's the non-negotiable part that I teach my clients, that you have to really dial in your circadian rhythm. And mold can actually impact this process as well. So especially when you're having sun sensitivity issues, I've had clients where they have hypersensitivity issues dealing with the sunlight.

• 49:28Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 49:29Speaker 01

  So mold can create a huge issue. So to create more resilience to behind the sun is to getting early sunlight in the morning.

• 49:38Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Sure.

• 49:38Speaker 01

  To build that sun callus up, what I call.

• 49:41Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 49:41Speaker 01

  Uh, and then they're able to tolerate that better. And that's how to recharge the cells and better, and also grounding, reducing inflammation, electric flow. And one of the things that could be really helpful is how the mitochondria is hydrating as well. Right? The sunlight helps to create structural water by really getting the metabolic process in the mitochondria.

• 50:01Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 50:01Speaker 01

  Right? We keep forgetting that mitochondria also makes water.

• 50:05Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 50:05Speaker 01

  And that's a part that's often not talked about well enough.

• 50:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, it's part of the energy production process to make water, actually, yeah. Um, and then when you see people and with mold toxicity and you put into place this very structured program around treating the mold. How do you know that they're better? Do you do repeat testing? Is it symptom improvement or how, what is your endpoint?

• 50:27Speaker 01

  Symptom improvement is a big thing.

• 50:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, of course.

• 50:31Speaker 01

  But one of the thing is like, uh, the one, the part that I really hope to emphasize is how they are detoxing, how sensitive they are.

• 50:37Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 50:37Speaker 01

  Right to the overall environment.

• 50:38Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Sure.

• 50:39Speaker 01

  Right? If they are having a better standpoint in terms of from start to finish and having less reaction, that's a huge win for a lot of people. So we see that there's a huge improvement there. But one of the things that I also see is their energy level.

• 50:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 50:51Speaker 01

  Their brain fog is completely disappearing.

• 50:53Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 50:53Speaker 01

  After a couple of months. So that's another thing that a huge market of that. And usually I retest the uramicotoxin testing about four to five months to swear it is. And you, and also with clients that I work with, unless it's a very complex issue like MCAS, generally they could clear mold issue within four to five months. We're looking at this as well.

• 51:10Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Four to five months.

• 51:11Speaker 01

  Four to five months of looking at it because you're working on the cellular health and how the cells are functioning. As well as to properly support the detox pathway. So this is the old part of my encore method. And properly working on the rebalancing microbiome where we work on the gut, followed by systemic mycotoxin issues. Then viral, then bacteria overgrowth, then looking at the parasitic issues.

• 51:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  All encompassing issues that biofilm has to be worked on as well. Because if you, if you don't fix the biofilms, this could be a recurring issue that the patient's dealing with.

• 51:40Dr. Darshan Shah?

  The mold is busy, live there forever.

• 51:41Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 51:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Exactly. Well, so Dr. Kim, one more thing before we end the conversation is how does prescription antifungals fit into this whole story?

• 51:49Speaker 01

  It's a huge effect that could make life change, life changing effect in patients as well. So I love utilizing or at least recommending it to conazole.

• 51:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 51:58Speaker 01

  Um, however, there is always a downward effect of using prescription antifungals because of it can cause um liver toxicity is one. And as well as a drug interaction.

• 52:09Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 52:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, so those are the top two issues, but usually it's a conazole well tolerated. So one of the things that I like to do is really, I mentioned about the sequential aspect into getting the gut fixed and then followed by systemic mycotoxin issues. So gut is the most critical part that has to be done first while we're reducing the fungal overgrowth in the gut. By utilizing herbals first.

• 52:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  And then followed by about four to five month of into utilizing herbals. I like to recommend at least utilizing it to conazole for about two weeks.

• 52:37Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 52:38Speaker 01

  So each console hundred milligrams twice a day for about seven days is one of the things that I recommend doing.

• 52:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Got it.

• 52:43Speaker 01

  Now, some doctors would end up having to say, no, they like to use it to conazole for six months.

• 52:48Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 52:48Speaker 01

  But there is an inherent issue dealing with liver toxicity issue. So you have to measure the liver uh panel very well. And then seeing if there's a potential drug interaction as well. So those are important.

• 52:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, that's why it's so important to work with the doctor practitioner that can get you through all of this because there's a lot of different pieces to this and. You have to be monitored with blood work during the entire journey as well.

• 53:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, so this is the part that I like to partner with other physicians.

• 53:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 53:12Speaker 01

  In this process. So generally, if I have a primary care doctor that my patients already, or at least my clients already seeing. So this is where I should recommend them to prescribe it to conazole for about seven days to just get them to the finish line.

• 53:24Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Got it, got it. Great. Well, I mean, I think, uh, you know, a lot of people that are listening to this podcast suffering from mold, they want to get a hold of you to see if you can help. Take them through this process.

• 53:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:33Dr. Darshan Shah?

  How do people get a hold of you and learn more from you and um do you see patients and treat patients?

• 53:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. So I do see clients one on one uh virtually now.

• 53:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, great.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  I used to see them actually in person, but now it's hundred percent virtual.

• 53:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 53:45Speaker 01

  So my website is Dr. John Kim dot com. I'm very active on Instagram as well. I put a wealth of information on uh mold detox and other protocols that I talk about. Uh, and you can make an appointment to the website and work with me.

• 53:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And you can work with people for months and months until their mold resolves?

• 54:00Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 54:01Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Great, that's amazing.

• 54:02Speaker 01

  But I try to make it as short as possible. And one of the things I jokingly say to clients is that, you know, at some point, I don't want to ever see you again. Not because I don't like them, it's just that you've got to be done with the detox.

• 54:11Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 54:12Speaker 01

  Right? And live your life.

• 54:13Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 54:13Speaker 01

  Enjoy. That's what is the more important part.

• 54:15Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right. Well, this is fantastic, Dr. Kim. Thank you so much for giving us a master class in mold.

• 54:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

• 54:22Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I really appreciate you being here and I really appreciate you educating us and bringing some more tools to us. So, thank you.

• 54:27Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 54:33Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Wow, that was a great conversation with Dr. Kim. Here are my top five learnings. Number one, a heart attack at 33, it's a symptom, not the cause. Dr. John Kim's heart attack at 33, despite normal cholesterol, was a wake-up call for him. It revealed underlying infections, heavy metals, and childhood trauma as root causes of endothelial blood vessel damage. This highlights that cardiovascular disease is a complex interplay of factors beyond just cholesterol levels. Number two, the cell danger response, mitochondria in defense mode. Our mitochondria, the cells' powerhouses, can get stuck in what's called a chronic cell danger response due to many different kinds of stressors, leading to chronic inflammation, energy depletion, and impaired cellular communication.

• 55:18Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Understanding this response is key to resolving persistent health issues. Number three, biofilms are the hidden shields of chronic infections. Biofilms are like protective cocoons formed by pathogens, shielding them from the immune system and antibiotics and making chronic infections difficult to clear. They are often associated with heavy metal toxicities as pathogens utilize metals for protections. Number four, mold and mycotoxins are a pervasive threat. Mold and mycotoxins are often overlooked, contributing to chronic illness found in water-damaged buildings and even in common foods like coffee and peanuts. They have toxins that damage cell membranes, impair mitochondrial function, and can lead to symptoms like brain fog and UTIs.

• 56:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Number five, childhood trauma's physical impact. Emotional trauma, especially in childhood, can lead to chronic inflammation and significantly impact physical health. It can contribute to conditions like heart disease and hormone imbalances. Addressing these deep emotional layers is crucial for holistic healing.

• 56:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Thank you so much for listening to the podcast today. Please remember to subscribe if you liked this episode and give us a good review and share a link with your friends. It really helps to support all of our efforts. I also want to remind you that the information shared on this podcast is for educational purposes only and is not intended to replace professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Please consult with your healthcare provider or physician before making any decisions or taking any action based on what you hear today, especially if you have any underlying health conditions or on any medications. Your doctor knows your personal health situation the best and it's always important to seek their guidance.