Dame Dash: The Man That DISCOVERED & Built Jay-z & Kanye West!

Dame Dash is the co-founder of Roc-A-Fella records and the producer who discovered Jay-Z and Kanye West. A legend of hip hop and rap who changed not only the dominant sound within the genre, he totally upended the way it operated as a business. In this conversation, he tells his story. Always knowing that he could never work for anyone else, nor could he sell out his business to ‘corporates’, his has been the life of a true ‘independent’, going from one start up venture to the next with only one thing seemingly connecting his wildly diverse businesses: it was what he wanted to do. In a raw and frank conversation Damon reveals the lessons he’s learnt from his triumphs and successes, his regrets, his proudest achievements, and the philosophy he’s developed and honed from them all. Follow Dame: Instagram - https://bit.ly/3DVTBQF Twitter - https://bit.ly/3FFMSf8 Follow me: https://beacons.ai/diaryofaceo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Kanye's whole thing is I don't give a fuck. Art is something that you really fight for if you love it. Even if your message is misunderstood.

• 0:08Steven Bartlett?

  Like white lives matter.

• 0:09Speaker 00

  He's an artist that likes war.

• 0:14Speaker 02

  One of the founders of Rockefeller, Rockwell.

• 0:17Speaker 03

  He discovered Jay-Z, Kanye West, and so many others.

• 0:20Speaker 00

  One of the biggest pioneers in hip-hop. I took Jay-Z and shot him to every single label and they all said no. I had to do it myself.

• 0:30Steven Bartlett?

  I really want to understand why Rockefeller won.

• 0:33Speaker 00

  I did partnerships with my artists. I'm gonna give you all the rights to my record, my art, and then you're gonna give me 10% of my art. That just didn't make sense to me.

• 0:42Steven Bartlett?

  That whole stint of your career, the Rockefeller chapter, do you have any regrets surrounding that?

• 0:47Speaker 00

  I wouldn't have been so generous with Jay. It was more friendship for me and money for him. But he did things that I thought he would never do.

• 0:54Steven Bartlett?

  What are those?

• 0:55Speaker 00

  I'm just saying this, let me just say this.

• 0:59Steven Bartlett?

  What was the hardest moment in your life?

• 1:02Speaker 00

  When Aliyah died. That breaks my heart.

• 1:06Speaker 04

  Singer, actress Aliyah is killed in a plane crash.

• 1:09Steven Bartlett?

  I tried to play out what that would feel like for me.

• 1:12Speaker 00

  Don't do it. You don't want to go through it. It's a pain that you couldn't understand.

• 1:25Steven Bartlett?

  Without further ado, I'm Stephen Butler and this is the Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself.

• 1:41Steven Bartlett?

  Dame. I always believe that in order to understand a man, you have to understand their earliest context. Because as childhood psychology often asserts, that's really when our character and our shape is formed. So can you take me back to your earliest context? The context that's most relevant to who you went on to become in your life, back in Harlem, 109th and 1st Street?

• 2:08Speaker 00

  My first, like, real memory of who I am is, I remember being like four and I was in nursery school and a teacher yelled at me. Or I got in trouble and I felt embarrassed. I felt uncomfortable. And I remember saying to myself at as a four year old, I'm never gonna feel embarrassed again. Ever. I didn't like the way it felt. You know, like when Fred Flintstone used to get yelled at and he starts shrinking? And I just was like, I'm never gonna put myself in a position to let any adult teacher, whatever. I'm never gonna be embarrassed. I just hated that. I remember not liking that feeling. And I think that was the last time I felt it. Pause.

• 2:52Steven Bartlett?

  And how did that? So that presumably impacts your relationship with authority figures.

• 2:57Speaker 00

  It just means I don't care what anybody thinks. So no matter what, regardless to what, you're not gonna make me feel as less of who I am. I know who I am. So there was no way that teacher was gonna make me feel small just because they were a teacher and I was a student. There was no way that they were gonna make me feel less of myself. I was never gonna let another person make me feel bad about myself ever again. The last time that happened, I was four years old. But what I saw was, as I got older, that this is the way people live their life. Fear of what people think of them. And that's the reason why they don't say what they feel. That's the reason why they internalize. And that's the reason why they end up depressed. So as long as you're expressing yourself, as long as you don't care, as long as you're not hurting anybody, there's no pain to feel.

• 3:41Speaker 00

  It's almost like, at that point, I sprayed this thing called, I don't give a fuck what anybody's thinking spray. And I think that's been the most important thing is not to care about the judgment of other people.

• 3:52Steven Bartlett?

  What about your parents? Could they tell you what to do?

• 3:56Speaker 00

  Well, my, of course, as a child, but my mom died when I was sixteen, so I was still a child. So at that point, I was making money. You know, the last time anyone could tell me what to do would be the last time someone was paying my bills. So if you paying my bills, then you could tell me what to do. And I've never put myself in a situation like that as an adult for someone to be able to tell me what to do. They could give me advice. My parents could give me advice, but you know, at sixteen or seventeen, after my mom died, I was getting more money than my dad. You know, so at that point, it's hard to listen to people that are older than you that hasn't, that haven't got to the place you wanna go. And as a child, you become very arrogant when you can do adult things. But my mother was the one that taught me to never, ever.

• 4:42Speaker 00

  Ever let someone tell you something that you don't believe without saying how you feel about. And, you know, almost where made it to where we might have had almost a somewhat disrespectful relationship. Because I would talk back. But, you know, in school, I would talk back. If I didn't agree with you, I was letting you know. And I'd be like, my mother taught me that. You know what I mean? So I was basically taught to talk back.

• 5:12Steven Bartlett?

  You're a father now. When you, when you look back.

• 5:14Speaker 00

  I've been a father.

• 5:15Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 5:16Speaker 00

  I should be a grandfather. I just, you know, I just, my, my last, my newest child, uh, uh, you know, I'm a, I had one, I'm fifty. I'm fifty one.

• 5:26Steven Bartlett?

  Five kids.

• 5:28Speaker 00

  Yeah. Last time I counted.

• 5:30Steven Bartlett?

  When you look back on um, your own relationship with your parents and how now that you're, you know, you're a father, you've got kids of your own. How in hindsight, did that shape you? The relation, the dynamic between your parents, but also their relationship with you? Is there anything you look back and say, well, because of that, I became this?

• 5:46Speaker 00

  Well, everything, I have a tattoo on my arm that says, thanks for making me the man I am. So, yeah, I got my sense of humor from my father and I got my hustle from my mother. Period. And yeah, you become a combination of the people that influence you the most. That's why you have to be important. I mean, it's important that you're cognizant of what you do when you realize that people are actually influenced by you. You know what I mean? You never want to do something that you don't want the people you love to do, because they're going to do exactly what you do. So I got a little bit of that, you know, my mom, she was like, you know, an entrepreneur. She always makes sure I had everything. She sold things. You know what I mean? Not drugs, but like, you know, like uh, clothes. You know what I mean? But like at flea markets and stuff, and she was real innovative about it.

• 6:31Speaker 00

  She did this thing once, we went to a flea market and she took a Hulu and put a curtain on it. And we would stand up and it made into a dressing room. And that day she sold all of her jeans. She made eight hundred dollars that day, I remember, at Aqueduct. So, you know, I've always had that hustle and bustle from my moms and, and, and, and doing things different.

• 6:56Speaker 00

  At an early age, made me know that that's the only way you could do it right. Like standing in, like if you don't stand out, then you're just atmosphere in a crowd. But when you do things different, then people are drawn to you.

• 7:10Steven Bartlett?

  One of the things I've I've thought about since growing up is how a lot of the things that I value most as characteristics of myself probably came from what the world would consider to be mistakes that my parents made. So one of them being like not being around ma- makes you independent. Or, you know, maybe being a workaholic ma- maybe makes the kid a workaholic. Or maybe not having money gives you drive. When you think about the things that wouldn't be in that like parenting handbook of how to raise a child that ultimately served you and made you, you know, the man you are today. Is there anything there where you go, a mistake made me brilliant?

• 7:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, every mistake that I had to fix made me brilliant. Makes you a boss, because that's a boss's job is to like untie knots.

• 7:57Speaker 00

  You know, your job as a parent is to make sure your children never have to go through the same problems that you went through. It's to break cycles. But first you kind of have to understand what that cycle is. So as an adult that had children, I was, you know, I ain't gonna like shit on my dad. But if I were him, I would have been in my life a little more. And you can look at a, like, you know, there's this thing, like, you know, if if your father's an alcoholic, you could either become an alcoholic because of it or just never touch drinks. It depends on how things affect you. So, you know, the way he parented and the way I knew and I was conscious about the way it made me feel,

• 8:37Speaker 00

  I knew what not to do to my children or what not to, you know, be absent or how, when I should be consistent. You know, the cycle that I've wanted to break was that cycle where, you know, your mother tells you not to like your father and your father's telling you certain things about your mother. And those are the people that you love the most. And only thing you want as a child is for your parents to get together. That's all you want. So, you know, it took me to have five kids to have a good relationship. A good, you know, one that's not so traumatizing for the child. A functional relationship.

• 9:16Speaker 00

  It took me five to to be fifty to get there. But each one of those children, the other four children, I knew that I was like, damn, I I I. You know, even though I've been able to make it where they've never had to sell drugs and they've had the best educations and lived that one percent of life. But I I wasn't able to break that cycle. The thing that hurt me the most was the separation of my parents. And the beef, I wasn't able to break that cycle. So, you know, I I wasn't gonna stop till I did. It's almost like with every child, I became a better parent. But knowing that the breakup of my mother and father affected my mother for the rest of her life, which affected me.

• 9:57Speaker 00

  You know what I'm saying? And I didn't wanna ever do that to my to my um to my children. And then also, being a visiting dad is whack. You wanna wake up with your child. You wanna watch your child grow and evolve. You know, buying and and and and providing physical things, a kid doesn't even care about that. That's not currency to a kid. They don't even know about money until you tell them about it. All they care about is your time. And that's the most valuable thing is, you know, the love that you can give your child. So, you know, at some point, you might think, okay, I'll sacrifice time with my child because I gotta make money to support him. But the kid don't care about that. You know, the kid just wants you to be there to support him.

• 10:40Steven Bartlett?

  Did you learn? Did you learn about emotions and affection and how to express yourself from from your parents? Was that was that something that you were able to do as a young man well?

• 10:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't put a title on it, like, oh, this is affection. But I've always been able to express myself in any way. You know, whether I'm crying or whether I'm cuddling. You know, I I don't have any uh problems about being and and showing what I feel in that moment, unless it's the police.

• 11:11Steven Bartlett?

  You're you're you're sixteen sixteen years old when your mother passes away?

• 11:15Speaker 00

  Hmm. Yeah.

• 11:19Steven Bartlett?

  How does, how does that change you? From everything I've read about that time in your life, she was, she was everything. And I, I read that you'd said that that was your biggest fear when you were a young man was losing your mother.

• 11:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, it made me a beast. It made me fearless. You know, it's like a gift and a curse of facing your nightmares early because then you have nothing else to be scared of. So, you know, my mom's died.

• 11:47Speaker 00

  Again, I didn't really care if I died because I'd be like, oh shit, I'd be with my moms. So I didn't, I had no fear of anything at that point. And I knew how I would react. You know, because sometimes you, you don't know how you're gonna react in certain situations. So I knew how, how I could get over it, not get over it, but live with it. And also it makes you appreciate what a real problem is. You know, like, you know, like after my mom's died, I was like, yo, if nobody's dying, I don't even wanna hear about it. It could be fixed. I'm not gonna ever be unhappy unless it has something to do with health, death, or freedom. You know what I'm saying? But other than that, nothing is gonna ever make me worry.

• 12:31Speaker 00

  Like, I'm not gonna be, like, a lot of people overreact to problems because they never had any. They don't know what a problem is and then they make something that's like, feel like it's the worst thing in the world. And I'm not gonna ever do that because I appreciate when things are good. You know what I'm saying? It'd be like, just in any second, some shit could happen that's fucked up. So in between those moments that you can't control, you have to enjoy life to the fullest. A hundred percent. But sometimes you have to actually go through some pain early so you understand how to appreciate life moving forward. Same thing of me losing my girl, losing Aaliyah. You know, it wasn't a pain I thought that I would ever feel of, you know, you don't anticipate like losing your girl.

• 13:12Speaker 00

  But once you do, you, once you get a girl again, you don't let go. And you appreciate love. You know, shit has to be taken from you. Things, things that are free, you find are priceless when they get taken from you. Like freedom and people you love. You know, and then you're like, what was I complaining about? You know, I was rich, I was wealthy because I had love. And now I don't. And there's no money in the world that could bring it back. You know, once your health is gone, it don't matter. You will spend any amount of money to get your health back if you're sitting in the bed compromised. Once your freedom is taken, you'll spend any amount of money to get out of jail, all of it, because you can't spend none of it while you're in jail other than on commissary, which is, you know.

• 13:54Speaker 00

  And then, again, lose a friend, lose someone you love. You'll do, if you could do any, you'd spend anything in the world to get that person back.

• 14:03Speaker 00

  But then you have to actually lose them to realize how much and how lucky you were to have them. So I try to appreciate life in the moment. I do appreciate life in the moment, because I'd be like, what if this was taken from me? Then I'd be sick, you know?

• 14:18Steven Bartlett?

  Sixteen years old, losing your mom, in that context, in Harlem.

• 14:24Steven Bartlett?

  How do you, how do you, how do you grieve that? Nobody teaches you how to grieve.

• 14:28Speaker 00

  Sell drugs.

• 14:29Steven Bartlett?

  Sell drugs?

• 14:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:33Speaker 00

  That's how I grieved. I was like, yo, I'm gonna gotta go get money, you know what I'm saying? And, you know, at that point, in that moment, I thought, because I was younger, that money meant happiness. So I would do anything for it in that moment, you know what I mean? Like, you know, I was selling drugs, I was risking my freedom and my life and hurting other people.

• 14:56Speaker 00

  So that's how I did it, you know, just occupying my time and moving forward, period.

• 15:02Steven Bartlett?

  Is that, is that grieving or is that a distraction?

• 15:05Speaker 00

  I don't know what you call it at that age. It's called in getting through it. So, yeah, it's probably a distraction.

• 15:13Speaker 00

  You know, but again, like, what are you gonna do at sixteen? To me, you know, I didn't have the money for a therapist or the hindsight to go get one in that moment.

• 15:24Speaker 00

  So I just sold drugs.

• 15:26Steven Bartlett?

  Is that what you think in hindsight you needed?

• 15:28Speaker 00

  I didn't need anything. I like where I'm at now. I think every lesson that I've learned to get me to this place has been perfect for me and for the world. The world learns as I learn. That's the guy that I've become. I don't call them losses, I call them learning experiences. But when you do that publicly and you could always land or you always land back on your feet, the rest of the world learns from that.

• 15:49Steven Bartlett?

  Tim Grover, who trained MJ and Kobe, said to me that, you know, you're looking to people's early years and you'll find, you'll find trauma and things that have happened and pain. And it will be the, often be responsible for their, as he called it, their light side. The thing that makes them great and famous and resilient and successful and win the gold medals. But then that, that thing is also responsible for their dark side. Which can be the, you know, it can be the insecurities, it can be the, the things that are less admired. Do you agree with that? And if so, what is your dark side?

• 16:23Speaker 00

  Well, you know, I think it's natural to be worried when things are going good for a second because it's happened where things are going good and I've been devastated. But in that moment, I say, it's normal for you to think like that, you've been through it.

• 16:40Speaker 00

  I think only dark side is people triggering me. That, you know, when I feel someone's not doing right by me or by people that I love,

• 16:52Speaker 00

  I, I can get triggered pretty, I get triggered. It's hard to control that side.

• 16:59Steven Bartlett?

  Why? Why can you get easily triggered?

• 17:02Speaker 00

  I probably because I've, there's been things that have been bothering me for a while. You know, when you're in the street, you have to make examples of people. So, any kind of weakness means that more people are, it makes you like a magnet for pain. Like people trying to rob you or think you're soft or whatever. Especially when you run a crew, you know? So you always have to be the strongest, you have to be willing to do anything that you're sending someone else to do. You know what I'm saying? So in the street, you you know, it's it's swing now, think about it later. It's survival mode. And what happens is, just because you're out of survival mode, your muscles and your natural instincts still do survival mode at times.

• 17:46Speaker 00

  So I've had to get therapy to, you know, be like, yo, you're not in the street, to be able to say that, like, yo, you're not in the street, so you don't have to deal with things that way anymore. But if you've seen in my career, you know, it'd be a lot of yelling, because I would rather, like, when I'm really yelling, it would be me, like, in the street, I'd have put my hands on you. So instead of me yelling, I mean, instead of me putting my hands on you and going to jail, I would just yell or snap. So I had to actually, because it's a different game in the street than it is in business. And the rules are different, like, you know, being disrespectful is almost part of, like, traditional corporate business. The shit that you do every day in corporate business could get you put in a trunk in the street. And if you come from the street and you have to be like, oh, that hurt. Like, I would have really, I can't hurt you, I can't hit you, I can't do nothing, I can't defend myself.

• 18:30Speaker 00

  I gotta go to a lawyer for this? It could become traumatized, and you have to internalize a lot. So disrespect triggers me. And, you know, people trying to control the narrative by tricking you into thinking you're not great when you really are. You know how many people have tried to convince me I'm not a superhero? And I know I am. I'm that man. Why is that an important belief for you? Because I'm always fighting for the culture. That's what a superhero does. You know, or a general. Like, you know, back in the Roman days, no matter how much money you had, you were not famous unless you fought for your country and won a war. For your country, for something you loved. You know?

• 19:13Speaker 00

  And for me, I'm a person that loves a lot. Not just country, I love culture, I love a lot. I love art, there's so much for me to fight for. You know what I'm saying? It's like, I just can't look the other way for things that affect me and my culture and things that people I love. It's hard. I think a lot of conditioning happens when you see things are wrong and you gotta look the other way for survival. And I've just never been that guy. And I don't come from a family or a bloodline of people that have ever been abused, that have ever been bullied. I come from a bloodline of people that bully the bully, that oppress the oppressor. Like, we look for people that think they tough, because we really think they are not, just based on the overcompensation. You know what I mean?

• 19:57Speaker 00

  So it's not in how you like project, project yourself or act, it's really about what you do.

• 20:03Steven Bartlett?

  If I'd asked you when you were sixteen, seventeen, after your mother passes, what you're going to be when you're older?

• 20:10Speaker 00

  I'd just say, great, I'm gonna be great, I'm gonna be Dame Dash. I didn't know what I was gonna be. At sixteen, I just knew I was gonna be great.

• 20:20Steven Bartlett?

  How could you be so sure?

• 20:22Speaker 00

  How could you not be so sure? I'm Dame Dash. You know what I'm saying? Like, my narrative's never been losing. You know, when you start out winning, and that's all you know, even when it appears you lose, if you're a winner, you're like, I could, I, I just can't see myself losing. So no matter what, it's gonna, I, I'm gonna end up winning. I'll learn from it, I'll be, be patient, but I just don't see, I don't see losing.

• 20:45Steven Bartlett?

  You realize that not everybody has that mindset, right?

• 20:49Speaker 00

  It's too bad for them. I don't understand why.

• 20:54Steven Bartlett?

  Do you understand where you got that mindset from?

• 20:56Speaker 00

  I'm from Harlem. It's just a Harlem thing. I think my family, you know, and just winning. Like, you know, being that kid in school that was like good at all the sports, that could fight, could dance, funny. You know what I mean? I just don't see myself taking to hell.

• 21:16Steven Bartlett?

  That belief, has that built, built over time, like got stronger and reinforced by success over, over and over again? Like building, like this building of evidence about what you're capable of and who you are? Has it developed or was it just always solid?

• 21:32Speaker 00

  I just never thought I wasn't gonna win. Like, I, I don't know. I, I mean, like, for, for someone to ask me and say like, that's crazy that you always think you're gonna win. I, I really think that's crazy that you don't think you're always gonna win. Like, the way I, I see the opposite. I, I just don't understand why I get into a fight that you think you're gonna lose. And life is a fight every day. So why would I get into anything thinking I'm not gonna make history? I'm like a little behind schedule for me right now.

• 21:58Steven Bartlett?

  What do you mean by that?

• 22:00Speaker 00

  Well, again, in the beginning of my career, everything I did was for money. I was all about the money. And then this thing happened where it just became all about the art. And being able to sustain doing what I want, being happy and being able to create. Becoming a starving artist. And just being someone that not exploits artists, but actually is the artist. I was doing it the business way. And I was getting where I needed to go as far as touching pop culture, but the people around me were making it where I wasn't happy about it. It didn't feel good. And I decided to do it the artist way. So back then, I didn't know I would be like, fuck it, I just want to be an artist. I thought if I was just doing things for money, like imagine what I'd be in the music business right now if I just was like

• 22:44Speaker 00

  exploiting everyone that's not smart. You know, and taking advantage. Like if I would have took advantage of Jay-Z, which I probably could have. He didn't know anything about the business. He might try to act like that now, but I, trust, you know what I'm saying? So, you know, if I was that person that would do anything, no integrity, no morals or scruples, I'd have billions and billions and billions of dollars. I wouldn't have taught my artists how to leverage their celebrity for their own products. I would have just leveraged their celebrity for my own. You understand? I don't, I like, I teach my artists how to be independent of me. You understand what I'm saying? That's why the artists around me end up, like usually it's the businessman that has more money than the artist, right? The artists are the ones that have more money than the businessman. Obviously, I'm not the businessman.

• 23:30Speaker 00

  You know what I'm saying? Unless I have the bread. I'm the artist. It's funny how artists become businessmen. They kick the art at certain points. Or who's really an artist, or what a real artist is. But to me, a real artist is someone that won't do nothing for money, which is me. I won't do nothing for money. I make money off the things that I love to do. Off the art. And I respect the process of art. You feel me? That's why you see when I came in, I, I know the, it's, I know the process. But not of one art, of a lot. So I know the fashion art, the music art, the comic, you know, even though I don't draw, but you know, all of these different things. I tried, I learned them from, to where I could do it independently and I don't have to outsource.

• 24:13Steven Bartlett?

  At the cost of the timeline, which could have been, you're saying could have been faster if you, if you'd chosen to exploit people.

• 24:18Speaker 00

  Right.

• 24:19Steven Bartlett?

  And that's a trade off that a lot of people wouldn't have taken. They would have taken.

• 24:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's why they miserable. Now they're on pills.

• 24:27Speaker 00

  Now they're not happy. Now they're paying for sex. It's just, I won't do it. You know what I'm saying?

• 24:34Steven Bartlett?

  For the first part of your career, you were, you were on the other side, right? You were the businessman. You were, you were working with artists like Jay-Z and Kanye and many, many others. And you weren't in sort of artist mode as you kind of see yourself now with the comic books and the movies and the music and everything else you're doing. Everything you're doing.

• 24:53Speaker 00

  Children's books.

• 24:54Steven Bartlett?

  The, the list was so long that I, I thought just.

• 24:57Speaker 00

  It's almost, it's like I said, it's insanity. It's ridiculousness, the amount of things that inspire me that I think I could actually do better than everyone else.

• 25:05Steven Bartlett?

  When you look back though, on that, on that period from, you know, from being that sixteen year old, you go through school. I heard you got kicked out of school a lot.

• 25:11Speaker 00

  I got kicked out of a lot of schools.

• 25:12Steven Bartlett?

  I got kicked out of one school and then I dropped out of the next, but you got kicked out of a lot of schools. I can understand why, from what you said about that four year old kid.

• 25:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, but why would I want somebody that doesn't have as much money as I want to make trying to tell me what to do? And how you think they felt when I would tell them that? Like, my car's better than yours. I'm sixteen. You're the principal. You know what I'm saying?

• 25:31Steven Bartlett?

  Did you park in the principal's spot one time as well?

• 25:33Speaker 00

  That's what got me kicked out of two schools.

• 25:37Speaker 00

  It's so crazy, cause you know, there would be kids that did real wild stuff in school that did not get kicked out. But question this entitlement of certain kinds of people. Just because someone gives them authority doesn't mean I'm acknowledging it.

• 25:55Steven Bartlett?

  That journey that led you from there, from being kicked out of that school to, you know, signing Jay-Z, building that career and, and all of that success around Jay-Z and Kanye. What was, when you look back at why you, why you versus everyone else? What did you have to, to spot Jay-Z's talent, to spot Kanye's talent, to build them into stars, to create Rockefeller alongside them? What was it about you, in hindsight, the characteristics of you as a person, that made you capable of doing such an endeavor?

• 26:23Speaker 00

  I mean, I just wasn't taking no. Like, if I believe someone's gonna win, I'm a hundred percent sure that they will. And then I fight and make sure that they do.

• 26:33Steven Bartlett?

  Did you have history in music before Jay-Z? I mean, you'd done, you'd been successful.

• 26:38Speaker 00

  Before being in the music business?

• 26:39Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 26:39Speaker 00

  I got in the, I was in the music business when I was nineteen. So I went from drug dealing to the music business.

• 26:45Steven Bartlett?

  Do you not need any qualifications to join, to become part of the music business?

• 26:49Speaker 00

  No, you could be the dumbest motherfucker in the world. That's why so many people are there. Really? You seen, I mean, in the music business, the traditional music business, they are figureheads that, like, if you ask the average president of a, you know, label about P and L and quarterly, you know, they won't know shit about that. They're just there because a white company or another culture can't say that they're running black people with a white face. So you need a figurehead there. Someone that will listen to what that person's telling them what to do. And that's why that industry was no bueno for me. I'm like, first of all, I never got hired in that industry. I came as a partner.

• 27:31Speaker 00

  But the funny thing is, they couldn't recognize me as a partner because they were not. And I couldn't recognize them as generals. They'd be like, yo, how you gonna talk to, you're a soldier. How could you talk to a general like that without thinking your teeth are gonna get cracked? You understand what I'm saying? And they didn't understand that. Like, you don't understand, I own this shit, you work for somebody. Talk to me like the boss. And it's crazy how you will talk to the people that don't own shit like the boss. They just couldn't understand what that meant to own my actual equity, that own, have ownership, not had, sell my rights to something and then let somebody else pay me for my work. That does not logically make sense. And it never did to me. You know what that means?

• 28:14Speaker 00

  Like, you have a grown ass man saying and being proud to say I'm signed? Does that actually sound right? I'm signed to another man? No, it doesn't. But they've actually programmed us to believe it is. You're gonna give me an advance, I'm gonna give you all the rights to my records, my, everything that I've done, my art. And then you're gonna give me 10% of my art. That's what the music business is, or 8% if you're lucky. That just didn't make sense to me. And I never did, I did partnerships with my artists. With the artists I work with in the businesses that I do now. Just because I want people to maintain their manhood. Like, I don't ever say you sign to me. I'm, I'm not letting, I don't like the way that sounds.

• 28:57Speaker 00

  So, you know, even the verbiage and the, the whole thing, just your masters, you know what I'm saying? All of those things are like trigger words, you know, that unconsciously control us. Can we smoke in?

• 29:10Steven Bartlett?

  If you want it.

• 29:11Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 29:12Steven Bartlett?

  Is there? I don't know if there's. Is that a fire alarm?

• 29:17Speaker 00

  I just didn't know.

• 29:19Speaker 00

  You're not even from here, man.

• 29:20Steven Bartlett?

  I have no idea.

• 29:21Speaker 00

  Don't even get out of here. That's just you just you just not in the hotel, okay?

• 29:24Steven Bartlett?

  Is it is it gonna go off cuz?

• 29:26Speaker 00

  You think it'll go off?

• 29:27Steven Bartlett?

  I have no idea what that is.

• 29:28Speaker 00

  It should be fine.

• 29:29Steven Bartlett?

  It is what it is.

• 29:30Speaker 00

  It is what it is, you know.

• 29:32Steven Bartlett?

  I'm trying to, I really want to understand why Rockefeller won and, you know.

• 29:36Speaker 00

  It's cuz it was real.

• 29:37Steven Bartlett?

  Cuz it was real?

• 29:38Speaker 00

  It was real and I wasn't having it.

• 29:42Speaker 00

  Rocko, they weren't, no one wanted to sign. Think about how, this is the record industry.

• 29:48Speaker 00

  I took Jay-Z and shopped him to every single label and they all said no. I had to do it myself.

• 29:56Steven Bartlett?

  Why did they say no?

• 29:58Speaker 00

  Either he was too old, he rapped too fast, they just didn't have it. So we were like, we'll do it ourself. So that's the thing. Remember when I said before, people been telling me I'm not a superhero and I know I am. Right? So if someone told you that you couldn't sell companies and do the things that you did because to them it's superhero shit, it's a dream that they can't come true for them. You feel me?

• 30:22Steven Bartlett?

  Mm-hmm.

• 30:22Speaker 00

  Like you've done things that people wanna do.

• 30:24Steven Bartlett?

  Mm-hmm.

• 30:25Speaker 00

  And I guarantee you, if you came with that idea to certain people, they'd say, give you thirty reasons why you can't do it. The reason why Rockefeller was good, the reason why I did what I had to do was cuz I knew how to have a clear dream without anyone obstructing it. I knew how to visualize winning.

• 30:45Speaker 00

  So if somebody told me, you can't do that cuz of this, get out my dream. Cuz that's not the last thought I'm gonna have with my dream because my mind is powerful and whatever I see in my mind, I can make happen. So what I'm living in is my dream. I dreamed about coming to London right now. In the past, this was a visualization. I didn't know exactly what I'd be doing in London, but I visualized doing a lot of shit. Talking to a lot of people. You understand what I'm saying? So if you can't visualize winning, then you will not win. And the average person, because we're programmed not to win, ninety-nine percent of us are, we don't think anyone can.

• 31:26Speaker 00

  So when someone does, it's amazing. But it's just the program. As soon as you're born, you know, I've said this before. You don't know about fear or what to be scared of until someone tells you what to be scared of. And a lot of what people tell you to be scared of is to actually be successful and dream and be independent and be on your own. You know, what would you, like, if you were a conniving person that wanted to take over the whole world and you had that kind of power, but that you had to program everybody. The first thing I would do was take everybody's kids as soon as they wake up and program them for eight hours a day on what I want them to do. I want you to go to college. I want you to get a job. I want you to work until you're seventy.

• 32:09Speaker 00

  I want you to be unhappy. I want you to have a debt. I want you to go get a loan to go to college. And then I want you to work that off. And if you don't, if you don't go to college, then you make your, you make your parents' dreams into a nightmare. Most kids only go to college for their parents. You understand what I'm saying? Then you pay for that. So when I look at hieroglyphics, I never see school. I think parents love their children the most. No one's gonna love their kids more than the people that made them. Those should be the people teaching them. Why would you put a kid in a, in a, in a, in a room behind a desk when the sun is out? For their whole entire childhood?

• 32:54Speaker 00

  Not put them in front of water or ocean or anything that inspires them, dim lights? If you notice, schools, jails, and hospitals all look exactly the same. Why wouldn't it be in something inspiring? Why? Because it's a program to keep us controlled. You have to, when you have to have order of masses, you have to have them all doing the same thing. So you can know what they're doing, you can monetize what they're doing, you know how they're doing it. So at a very early age, I was like, yo, all this shit y'all teaching me, first of all, none of it makes me think I'm number one. It would make me if I believed that y'all were teaching me, especially back then, that I'm number two. That I could never be a boss, that there could never be a black president.

• 33:38Speaker 00

  They never teach us how to pass laws and lobby or be politicians, and that's the only way to make change. So it has to be strategic. So when a cycle continues over and over again without change, it's either insanity or it's intentional. Somebody's losing, which is us, but somebody's winning, which is them. And they're controlling the game. So now we have to make our own game, which behooves us. But the patterns that are implemented, like you said, the DNA of who you are starts when you're a child. What happens as soon as you're four or five years old? You get taught what to read, how to read, what to do. And you're also told that the only way you could break a social class is to be an athlete or be an entertainment. And both are provided for you in school.

• 34:23Speaker 00

  So you just cash out and don't go to school, get an education. You go and invest all your dreams in being an athlete, which is like Lotto. And when it doesn't happen, they build a jail based on those that don't graduate. That's how they build jail cells, which is an independent sector. With me, you know, meaning that, you know, it's out, you know, it's not the government doesn't own it. And the intention is to keep those beds in those jails filled because you have a government contract. It's nothing but a hotel that you want to keep. So when you get to that jail, based on the fact that you didn't get your education, they make sure that you come back, no rehabilitation at all, and serve you bad food, no therapy, none of that shit.

• 35:05Speaker 00

  And it's obvious, if you study people, which people do, that you should do that different. So that there would be a different result. But because there hasn't been any change made by anyone, the change has to come from us. And that's the reason why Rockefeller was successful, because I wasn't with none of that. Not the education, not the programming that we should be signed, none of that shit. Not them telling me Jay was too old, all of that. You understand what I'm saying? So basically, everything I've been told has not behooved me. But everything I do has. So when I don't listen, my family eats. When I do, we don't.

• 35:47Steven Bartlett?

  One of the things they don't teach us when we're young is about, is about money. Especially if you don't come from it and you haven't got a.

• 35:53Speaker 00

  And that's a business, holding money is a business within itself. They don't teach you how to pay taxes.

• 35:59Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 35:59Speaker 00

  They don't teach you about, um, capital gains.

• 36:02Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 36:03Speaker 00

  They don't teach you about trust funds, none of that shit. They don't teach you how to have money because they don't expect you to get none. Why isn't there a class on how to have money?

• 36:15Steven Bartlett?

  How to invest it, how to pay your taxes. Yeah, I mean, I destroyed by eighteen years old. We have this thing called a credit score out here. I think you have the same sort of thing in the US.

• 36:23Speaker 00

  I don't have a credit score.

• 36:24Steven Bartlett?

  I destroyed mine very early. And then I got these two CCJs, which is a county court judgment, which sits on your credit score for six years when I was eighteen, because I was shoplifting pizzas. I was, my parents went speaking to me, I was trying to start these businesses.

• 36:36Speaker 00

  How do you shoplift a pizza?

• 36:37Steven Bartlett?

  You just walk in, you get your bag, just as smart as you can, so they don't, you're still black, so they're still gonna look at you walking in the shop, but you're just as smart as you can, go around the back, put it in the bag, walk out. That's what I was doing. I just didn't have any money. But I destroyed my financial, my financial credit before I knew what it was.

• 36:58Speaker 00

  But it didn't bother you because you still did what you had to do?

• 37:00Steven Bartlett?

  I was convinced I was gonna make a million, millions anyway, so.

• 37:03Speaker 00

  In the street, there is no credit. There's no contracts. Your word is your contract. Your honor is, and if you come from that, like, that's the way I was introduced to life, was the honor, not the contract, not the paper, but the heart and the soul.

• 37:20Speaker 00

  You know, and that's another reason why I was like, yo, I can't be a businessman, because it means my honor game is out the window.

• 37:26Steven Bartlett?

  How did you learn those lessons of business? You start Rockefeller, but you haven't gone to business school. Selling drugs?

• 37:33Speaker 00

  You gotta market, you gotta be consistent, you know, you gotta color top. No one else can use that color. You protect it, your brand, your work gotta be good.

• 37:42Steven Bartlett?

  Marketing, then?

• 37:43Speaker 00

  Well, that's, it wasn't, see, that's the thing about hustling. This is another thing, it's like, because it's illegal, you can't do no ads. You just gotta put out, you gotta give samples out.

• 37:55Speaker 00

  And once the work, once they addicted, then you raise the prices.

• 37:59Steven Bartlett?

  But the marketing of Rockefeller, that was something.

• 38:02Speaker 00

  It was just.

• 38:04Steven Bartlett?

  The brand.

• 38:05Speaker 00

  We were just active, bro, you know, like innately, I don't know. I look back at tapes that I have of like, you know, when I was like nineteen, and I had merch, but I didn't call it merch back. The things I were doing, I didn't get taught. I didn't have a title for them, but it was just logical to do.

• 38:25Speaker 00

  You know, if you deal with logic as opposed to waiting for somebody to tell you, I mean, that's the difference between being a soldier and a general.

• 38:32Speaker 00

  Soldiers get, they wait literally to be told what to do. Generals give orders.

• 38:37Steven Bartlett?

  There as well, the naivety seems to be playing into your favor. Because if you'd gone to business school and learned about how to build a record.

• 38:44Speaker 00

  While I was in business school, I'd have been missing building the. Bro, I paid for my daughter's college, right? But I told her, you don't have to go to college. She wanted to be a model at the time. Those four years would have been the prime years for her. You understand what I'm saying? Now she graduated and it's like.

• 39:04Speaker 00

  I, I, I would have preferred, because her education cost a quarter million dollars. I would have way preferred to just give her a quarter million dollars as a salary, or at least invest a quarter million dollars in a business for her.

• 39:15Speaker 00

  You know, I tell my, my son Lucky, he's in college right now, and I'm telling him, I'm like, I just did this with your sister. If I'm paying for college, you're gonna listen to your professor, but you're gonna have to listen to me too. I have to be able to tell. Now, this is my first lesson. Tell me what your dreams are.

• 39:30Speaker 00

  What's your dream? And it's the hardest question for him to answer.

• 39:35Speaker 00

  They don't teach dreaming in school. Which is why we make books that I ain't gonna be mad about it. I'm part of something called the O S G. And there's also, and it's two hundred principals. And most of these principals are from places where um, most people are economically challenged. And what we do is we discuss curriculum, the things the board of education's not doing, we'll do it. They do that on Thursdays and on Tuesdays, I teach the principals an entrepreneurial class. Because none of the principals knew how to dream. I'm like, how y'all teaching your teachers to teach the kids how to dream if y'all don't? So in order to teach these kids how to be fearless, y'all got to be fearless. And they have. And they've been there. So I'm not just the person that talks about problems.

• 40:21Speaker 00

  I'm actively trying to fix them.

• 40:22Steven Bartlett?

  I read that point about dreaming. I've heard you talk about visualization and dreaming and the importance that plays. And I've also saw you on a, on an interview before. You asked, I think it was the host, the guy that said he wants to be an actor. You asked, you remember? I thought that was brilliant. I watched it last night and he's, you know. What's the right type of dream to set?

• 40:42Speaker 00

  The one that you love, what inspires you. But don't dream cheap, because they don't cost a dollar. You gotta dream big. Why would you dream small? Pause, you know what I mean? Like, why wouldn't you have the perfect, best case scenario? And it has to be a selfish dream. Because you can't help nobody unless you can help yourself. Period. Unless you're one hundred, you can't help someone else be one hundred.

• 41:09Steven Bartlett?

  Have you always had a really crazy dream in your head?

• 41:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, I've been living it. Rockefeller was a crazy dream in my head. But so was D D one seventy two. You know what I'm saying? These other art galleries, everything I'm doing right now, being a director. You know, what I do is,

• 41:28Speaker 00

  like, as a creative person, I like look at my life like a movie and I like to play different characters. So I got to play the gangster character early, got that out the way. I got to be a, a, a music mogul years ago. A fashion designer, a fashion mogul.

• 41:49Speaker 00

  You know, I started oil, I, I sold oil for fun, you know, just to do it. You know, Web three, Metaverse, the galleries, you know, with Netvork. You know, that's where I got my land in Netvork because of the utilities that it could do. It could do a lot of shit. Just playing these different roles.

• 42:06Steven Bartlett?

  Where does focus come into this? Because this is a-

• 42:07Speaker 00

  None. I'm insane. I don't have any focus. That's the problem.

• 42:12Speaker 00

  If there is a problem, that is it. I drive my staff and my crew crazy. Every day, there's a new idea. I'm inspired and I want to make it happen tangible or it bothers me. And I have the wherewithal to make it happen. I'm a starving artist, but starving is relative for me. You know? I'mma always have a staff that can make my dreams come true. So while I'm in London, trust me, the third edition of the magazine is being, right as we speak and right now, I can feel it actually being drawn and written, you know?

• 42:46Steven Bartlett?

  What I came to learn, probably the hard way, about this point of focus is like, I have all these dreams and things I wanna do, but they all come at the cost of the things I'm currently doing, because there's 24 hours in a day, even my, my team's time is finite. So if you're well aware that focus is an issue for you and that, you know, you can't do everything, how do you, how have you not sort of stops, range yourself in a little bit with all these ideas and projects you have going on? Cause as I said, I read the list and I was like, Jesus.

• 43:15Speaker 00

  Sometimes I have to like completely detach. So the last three months, I just left LA. I've been trying to stay away from creative things. I've been hiding my cameras from me. You understand what I mean? I'm staying away from people that inspire me. I'm, I'm telling you, you know what I mean? I, I'm in the house looking at a lake, me and my girl and my baby. For the last couple of years, maybe I'd say nine to 10, I've just been a creative and I've been creating. And I haven't been outside. I haven't been trying to promote or do any of those things. But I have so many tangible, physical assets, goods that need to be sold right now, that it's time to be great.

• 43:58Speaker 00

  So I've proven to myself that I can be an artist. Now I need to prove to myself I can make money off being an artist.

• 44:04Steven Bartlett?

  Why does that matter?

• 44:05Speaker 00

  So I can pay the bills. So I can make more art. To be able to have every single thing physically that everyone that sold out has is important to me. So people could know they could do it on their own. So if you see that Dane did it, and I'm like a regular guy to me, besides the superhero shit. But if I could do it, most people believe that they can as well. So it's important to lead by example. You know, a lot of people give these like classes and this, that and the third. I'd be like, yo, just look at what I'm doing. I'm not talking about like, as I'm talking, I'm like, I don't make a living from talking. I make a living from actually talking about the things I'm doing, but the living comes from the things I'm doing.

• 44:50Speaker 00

  You understand what I'm saying? Like I got shit I'm doing. Like I'm not just, I got a movie to show you right now, three. I got a magazine to show you right now. I got a comic book to show you right now. I got a children's book to show you right now. You know what I mean? I got a whole, I got so many different fashion lines. You know, you know, I have an album out right now. Cameron, me, Cameron, the A-Track. It's called You Wasn't There. It was number one on the rap charts last week.

• 45:14Speaker 00

  I forgot I put that shit out.

• 45:17Steven Bartlett?

  When is enough enough?

• 45:18Speaker 00

  Enough what? Fun? It's never enough fun. I'm not, again, it's not like I got a bunch of bread, you know what I'm saying? If I had crazy bread, then they'd be like, oh, I'm not doing it for the money. I just do it. Every single day, there's just new shit to do.

• 45:33Steven Bartlett?

  You said before we started recording, you're busy in your mind almost to the point of insanity. And when I spoke to Rock, who's your fiancee, she said, you're crazy, crazy motivated, the most driven, motivated person she's ever encountered in her life. He just never turns off, he doesn't sleep. I mean, how sustainable is that?

• 45:55Speaker 00

  How sustainable has it been?

• 45:56Steven Bartlett?

  You tell me.

• 45:57Speaker 00

  You tell me. I'm fifty-one, fifty-two. I'm chilling.

• 46:00Steven Bartlett?

  Almost to the point of insanity, though. He doesn't turn off, he doesn't sleep.

• 46:04Speaker 00

  I'm just having so much fun.

• 46:07Speaker 00

  It's not like I'm like, I don't leave her, though. It's not like I don't leave, I don't leave the house. I'm up, working. So it's like, oh shit, there's music to make, you know? Or, oh shit, there's a movie to make. You know, there's just so much to do and I'm having mad fun. So my dream, like when I'm, like literally, like physically, when I go to sleep and dream at night, my life is better than anything I could be dreaming about. And I get, I'd be like, like literally, I wake up like, phew, I'm glad I have to stay in that. Like, is this, am I still in my house? Like, you know what I mean? Like, I, I, I love, if, if God, listen, for me not to take advantage of all the opportunity that God has given me, based on where I'm from,

• 46:48Speaker 00

  it would be disrespectful to the opportunities that are presented for me to sleep right now. It would be disrespectful. It's too much, like, I, I am very aware that I live a privileged life compared to most people. Because I can actually do things based on art all day. So it, it just would be disrespectful to art.

• 47:15Speaker 00

  You know?

• 47:15Steven Bartlett?

  If you, if I was coming up, right? So say I hadn't done anything in my life and I was a young kid, eighteen years old. And I'm saying, Dane, I've got all these ideas. You know, I've got this book, a comic book, the TV, the movie, da, da, da. What advice would you give me in terms of?

• 47:30Speaker 00

  I'd say focus.

• 47:31Steven Bartlett?

  Interesting.

• 47:32Speaker 00

  But the thing about it is the difference is when I say I have all these ideas, I'm also showing you tangible things. Can you execute? People have ideas all day. Not many people can execute, I can. See, that's where there's a gift and a curse. Because I can finish, because I actually can do it. Because I will do it. You understand what I'm saying?

• 47:52Steven Bartlett?

  That's a curse, isn't it?

• 47:52Speaker 00

  Yeah. But I love it.

• 47:54Steven Bartlett?

  The reason I'm, I'm really obsessing about this topic is I've, I've been talking to my team, some of them.

• 47:59Speaker 00

  Seems like it must be a similar relatable problem.

• 48:01Steven Bartlett?

  And that's exactly why I'm, I'm really picking at it because, you know, I.

• 48:04Speaker 00

  Don't worry about it. We're told that we can't move in ten different dimensions at one time. But we really can.

• 48:11Steven Bartlett?

  But what about twenty?

• 48:13Speaker 00

  You could do fifty.

• 48:14Steven Bartlett?

  But then it comes at the cost of one of those. And that's what I've been contending with is.

• 48:18Speaker 00

  Life doesn't come with a cost.

• 48:21Steven Bartlett?

  So I'll give you an example. This podcast here, we could start multiple podcasts with loads of different creators.

• 48:26Speaker 00

  So do it.

• 48:27Steven Bartlett?

  But even five percent of my time thinking about that problem is taken from like my companies.

• 48:31Speaker 00

  Let me show you, let me equate that to you. So there are people that can cook very well for their family. But a real chef has to cook a thousand plates every fucking night. He does not do that on his own. He has other chefs that he teaches. So that's part of being a business person. Like, well, look at Walt Disney. Like, look at Disney. They do a bunch of shit to insanity, but it gets done. So that's where the business comes. See, I'm lucky enough that I can understand my left and right side of the brain. But I kind of understand if you do two things, both of them working at the same time, doesn't work out.

• 49:16Speaker 00

  Cause then when you're dealing with money, you can't be emotional. But when you're dealing with art, it's pure emotion. So when I'm shooting movies and people try to make me do business, I'd be mad. Like, get the fuck, don't, you, I, it's not gonna come from a businessman's place. It's gonna come from an emotional place. So, you know. Identifying when to turn off, turn on, it's tricky.

• 49:39Steven Bartlett?

  Have you ever overextended yourself in terms of taking on too much and thought, fuck, I need to?

• 49:44Speaker 00

  Always.

• 49:46Speaker 00

  Like, you gotta remember, like, I don't have no support. So I'm me financially. So all these things that got made, got made from one pocket.

• 49:57Speaker 00

  You know what I'm saying? An independent pocket. So it ain't no, there's never no money to look at. Like, I'm always racing a storm. When things happen to me in life, it's like, what's, what's the message here, right? So we get, we had this crib in Florida. First two weeks, lightning hit the crib, blew out the fucking air conditioners. And you can't be in Florida without air conditioners in the summer. And then this hurricane comes through. So the hurricane is on his way. I gotta go to the Black Caucus in Washington. I have a commission meeting and do a panel for the congressman, Andre Carson, in the, in the, in the commission.

• 50:35Speaker 00

  And I'm like, yo, I'm not gonna be able to fly out of any Florida. So we go to Hilton Head. We got a crib in Hilton Head and Rocky's parents are from Hilton Head. So we go to Hilton Head, six hours away. The storm comes to Hilton Head. I gotta go to Washington. So while the storm's coming to, is, is getting ready to go in the direction, I gotta time it. Cause we can't fly. So luckily I'm, you know, because I'm able to move around, I got a, like a sprinter, got a driver. I'm like, yo, I'ma drive there. It's only eight hours away. But the hurricane's coming through. It might catch you. How many hours I got? Three, aight, let's go. We here, the wind is catching us. We gotta get, you know what I mean? But that's what my life is like. I felt no fear, which was crazy. You know what I'm saying? It was like fun.

• 51:21Speaker 00

  And what was crazy about it, it wasn't a paid gig. Now, if it was a paid gig, I wouldn't have went. But because I made a commitment, cause the commission is important to me. And the congressman threw a commission dinner in the middle of the Black Caucus. And, you know, he also had a panel for me to speak on. And before COVID, I was supposed to speak on a panel and I missed my flight because of traffic. So I was like, I can't do that to him again. You know what I mean? So it was like, damn, you'll go out in a hurricane for something you believe in and for honor. And for money, I'd have been like, fuck the money. You know what I'm saying? I know I would have.

• 51:57Speaker 00

  But my point is, my life is like that. It's like it's always close. You know what I mean? And I don't mind it.

• 52:05Steven Bartlett?

  One of the things that your fiance said to my team when we spoke to her was that you value that and loyalty exceptionally high.

• 52:15Speaker 00

  It's everything. I could just tell you this. Where I'm from, survival is honor. So if you don't play the game right, you end up dead or in jail, period. And you have to play the game right.

• 52:28Speaker 00

  Unspoken laws. Just honor. And I just always looked at people that were honorable and how cool it looks to be honorable. How fly it is, because honor is not convenient. You know, it's when it's something that's challenging and it's something that you don't want to do, but you do it anyway because of honor.

• 52:51Steven Bartlett?

  Give me an example of what you mean when you say honor. What is that? In the streets? What is it in business to you now?

• 52:56Speaker 00

  Being a man of your word. So if you agree to something, that's it. Period. Is he in the street? If you give your word with a real street dude, that's it. You gotta give it, you know what I mean? Like, you can't like talk to certain people and say you're gonna do something that you're not. They come and looking for you. You said you're gonna do it, you gotta do it. When I agree to do something, even, I don't even care about the money, it's your word. You lie to me, your ass is out. You're a race to me, because that could get you killed. That could get you put in jail. Those are characteristics of people that, unhonorable means you're gonna tell on somebody to get yourself out of trouble. That doesn't usually deserve it.

• 53:40Steven Bartlett?

  I was watching an interview earlier on with Kanye and he speaks incredibly highly of you in all of, and every time he's asked. I was actually more compelled by, you know, you're heavily credited for sort of discovering Kanye and seeing something in him, again, like Jay-Z, at a time when no one else did. Kanye has become this, this brand now. And again, he's stretched across multiple industries in an unbelievable way, in culture and art, in fact, all these things. He's up on my wall upstairs. I've actually got a big, a painting from his, his show where he had that levitating stage. But what did you see in him back then that you know to be responsible for the, the monolith that he is today? What was it about him? What made him different?

• 54:23Speaker 00

  He would listen.

• 54:25Speaker 00

  Kanye listened. Like,

• 54:29Speaker 00

  if I said, yo, have cameras with you, he had cameras with you. When he broke his jaw and I had to send him the the equipment and with that through the wire with his jaw broke. If I, I remember bringing him to London, I'd be like, yo, rap, he'd just jump on a table and rap.

• 54:49Speaker 00

  You know, and, and the thing about when you say I discovered Kanye, yeah. But I gave everyone in Rockefeller the same exact opportunity. I fought, like I fought for Kanye and protected Kanye. I did that for every single artist. He just chose to do and take the opportunity and the protection and run with it until he didn't need anymore. And no one else did. What is his brilliance in your assessment?

• 55:19Speaker 00

  That he's so confident in his dreams that they happen, period. But, but what Joe might not realize about Kanye, and I'll probably leave it at that way.

• 55:34Speaker 00

  Is that my personal experience with him,

• 55:38Speaker 00

  just watching him move around, is that he's completely committed to what he's giving you. Every single second until he passes out, he's working. He doesn't have a personal life that I've seen. Every second's devoted to art.

• 55:58Speaker 00

  And it's insanity as well. You know, he said it. He's like, yo, I'm Dame Dash with a whole lot of money. And he is, but you know, the thing is, he has a whole lot of money because he talks and works for corporate. But look how it triggers him. You know what I mean? So what it means is no matter how much money you make, if there's still somebody impeding on your art, you're gonna be unhappy. And that's why my advice is always to do it on your own.

• 56:26Speaker 00

  Just for the happiness value of it. Fuck the money. If we all said, forget the money, we'd make so much more. Probably not in a short time, though, right? But in the meantime, you're having mad fun. When you're working on your dream, money doesn't matter. If you really truly love what you're doing, if you're doing it for the love of the art, you ain't really worried about the money in that moment, as long as you can continue to do it.

• 56:52Steven Bartlett?

  There's a trade off though, isn't there? And I've experienced that in my life and it's kind of what you were speaking to there.

• 56:55Speaker 00

  It's the business side of you that keeps talking because you still love money.

• 56:58Steven Bartlett?

  Me?

• 56:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:00Steven Bartlett?

  I do love money, to be fair.

• 57:01Speaker 00

  That's why you're conflicted.

• 57:02Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah. And I've taken, I think I've taken investment in all the companies I've started. No, not these days, but.

• 57:07Speaker 00

  Sounded like you have.

• 57:08Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah. In the last 10 years.

• 57:10Speaker 00

  And it sound like it gets you uninspired. But that's why when you, we spoke offline and you said, I quit my job. I was like, didn't you just say you sold a company? How could you still call it a job?

• 57:19Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, so I saw the.

• 57:20Speaker 00

  Once it's a job, it's not fun no more. I don't got a job.

• 57:25Steven Bartlett?

  When you look at these people, so in Kanye, you know, case, I don't want to talk about him beyond this point, but um, obviously it's made him a billionaire. The trade off you're speaking to is that, you know, he's had these frictions with the corporations and stuff like that, but puts him in a position now where he can, as he is doing, go it alone, be an independent.

• 57:43Speaker 00

  All I'm saying is regardless of what, it ends up in war.

• 57:49Speaker 00

  So if you get either way, either you have to walk away from your company or go to war. One of the two. Correct?

• 57:56Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah. Most of the time for a lot of founders, yeah.

• 57:58Speaker 00

  Wants to do that.

• 57:59Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah. If you look at, I mean, look at Steve Jobs with.

• 58:01Speaker 00

  Now look at you.

• 58:02Steven Bartlett?

  He got fired from Apple.

• 58:02Speaker 00

  Let's talk about you.

• 58:03Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 58:04Speaker 00

  So it sounds to me like you got, went public and got uninspired.

• 58:08Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah. Lost control.

• 58:11Speaker 00

  Exactly. You gave away your control for money.

• 58:14Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 58:15Speaker 00

  Why would you give your free, think about this, right? So when slavery became in America illegal, everyone that had slaves were still lawmakers that used to have slaves. They, they still were passing laws. So can you imagine this conversation? You know, what are we gonna do now? We don't have slaves. Well, we have to make it where they're slaves, but they don't know it. How do we do that? Well, let's oppress them and let's make them fight each other. So every time one kills, we get one killed. And then one goes to jail, we get two for one. Plus they all have kids, they have kids. So now they don't have parents, they're disenfranchised. So now the kids do the same exact thing because they have nobody to lead them.

• 58:54Speaker 00

  You understand what I'm saying? It's just a plan. To make us think we're winning when we're losing, but what we really do is we give away our freedom. So what happens is you commit a crime, you hurt your brother, and now legally you're in chains. You're put in a cage and you're working for slave wages. And now, instead of slave master or master, it's warden or CO. Or at least that's what we call them in the States. I don't know what they call like, it's called a correction officer, CO or warden, whoever runs the jail. It's a plan. So they always trick us into giving away our freedom by dangling a bag.

• 59:34Steven Bartlett?

  The bag, though, can sometimes be very big.

• 59:36Speaker 00

  It's man-made. Money is man-made. The value of money is made based on what a man says. But real currency is love and that's God-made. So why would you listen, just logically, to man telling you that his currency is more powerful than God's currency, which is love? I'm going with God's currency every time, just because it's logical.

• 1:00:04Speaker 00

  And that's another thing, logically, I just believe God has to be a woman. Why? Can you create life?

• 1:00:17Speaker 00

  But God creates life. Can a woman create life?

• 1:00:22Speaker 00

  So what would be the closest thing to God?

• 1:00:25Speaker 00

  The creator of life would be a woman. But of course, a man, because they have muscle, would trick the rest of the world into believing that man would be in. If war and people fighting is the least smartest thing in the world to do, and that's men do that all day. It's the most destructive thing to do, it's bad for business, but it's good for someone else's, whoever's selling bullets.

• 1:00:53Speaker 00

  You understand what I'm saying? And men do this all day. So if, you know, men been running this shit for a while and shit is fucked up. I would love to see what life looks like with women running things. I would love that.

• 1:01:06Steven Bartlett?

  That whole stint of your career, the Rockefeller chapter, do you have any regrets surrounding that when you look back and think, I wish I'd done that differently? I wish someone had told me this thing?

• 1:01:15Speaker 00

  That's Rockefeller. That shit is art. Why would I want to mess with that? Look how it's impacted the world.

• 1:01:23Speaker 00

  You know what I mean? Like, yeah, there'll be things, certain things that just because I know better, I'd do different. But who cares, man? I was like a kid.

• 1:01:32Steven Bartlett?

  What are those things? If you were giving me advice.

• 1:01:35Speaker 00

  I wouldn't have been so generous with Jake, to Jake. It was more friendship for me and money for him. And I always felt that, but I ignored it a little.

• 1:01:44Steven Bartlett?

  And you regret ignoring that?

• 1:01:46Speaker 00

  I don't regret it. I just, I wouldn't have, the things that, I wouldn't have let certain things happen because I didn't think they could happen. You know what I'm saying? Like, oh, he would never do that. But he did things that I thought he would never do. So now I would be like, oh, he would do that. And I would make sure it didn't happen. So Rockefeller would probably still exist right now.

• 1:02:04Steven Bartlett?

  I made those mistakes too.

• 1:02:07Speaker 00

  It is what it is. Actually, the life that I got after Rockefeller was so fuck, it's been so fulfilling and I've had so much fun. You know, I just opened up art galleries all over the world and made music with cool people and I just, I've just been doing cool shit for the last 10 years.

• 1:02:23Steven Bartlett?

  I was, I was compelled by the, what you said earlier, when you said Rockefeller would still exist.

• 1:02:28Speaker 00

  Yeah. Okay, you tell me what was in the Rockefeller and why it happened.

• 1:02:33Steven Bartlett?

  Uh, from what I understand, and again, this is just what I've read, there was a dinner that took place between you and Jay, where Jay wanted to sell Rockefeller to Def Jam.

• 1:02:45Speaker 00

  No, that's not right.

• 1:02:46Steven Bartlett?

  Okay, well, there you go.

• 1:02:47Speaker 00

  We had, we, we met at dinner because I had heard from L.A. Reid that Jay was like, I'll take the job of president, but Damon and Biggs can't be down with Rockefeller. And L.A. Reid was like, yo, and I thought John McNeely had said this shit. I was like, Jay could have never said that. And we went and he did me like, public place, the whole shit and told me this shit. And I, I was just like, fucking serious?

• 1:03:10Steven Bartlett?

  Jay told you that?

• 1:03:11Speaker 00

  He said, yeah, I want to be looked at as a businessman and as long as you're around, I can't be looked at as a businessman. But I was like, what's that got to do with Rockefeller? So he was like, yo, y'all can have Rockefeller, but just give me my reasonable doubt masters back. I said, let me think about it. And I went and did a screening of The Woodsman and I was like, yo, come with me to the screening so you can walk the carpet. He's like, nah, you're all dressed up. And I was like, this nigga never helps. But my point is, regardless of what, Rockefeller still existed. It's just I didn't run it.

• 1:03:42Speaker 00

  So why isn't there still a Rockefeller?

• 1:03:46Steven Bartlett?

  Rockefeller was sold, right?

• 1:03:47Speaker 00

  Nah, Jay was, they gave Jay, it was sold, but they gave Jay to run Rockefeller.

• 1:03:54Speaker 00

  So Kanye was still there, everybody was still there. Why is there no more Rockefeller?

• 1:04:01Steven Bartlett?

  You tell me.

• 1:04:02Speaker 00

  Well, usually when a rapper runs other rappers, it doesn't happen, it doesn't work no more. It, it just means there was no Rockefeller unless I run it. That's it.

• 1:04:13Speaker 00

  So I would have continued to run it. I wouldn't have put that, you know, I would have dealt with it different.

• 1:04:18Steven Bartlett?

  And how when you're going forward in like this?

• 1:04:20Speaker 00

  But I, I didn't want to run Rockefeller no more. I was done with that. I was, at that time, I was already at Rockware. My office was not, I wasn't fucking with music no more.

• 1:04:29Steven Bartlett?

  And Rockware was making a lot of money, right?

• 1:04:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, but it was just more, I was just inspired. I was just sick of being in that building and dealing with dumb shit. I was done with the music business. I wanted to do fashion.

• 1:04:40Speaker 00

  I just, I was done with it. So I looked at it as an out, like, out of obligation, I would have still ran Rockefeller because I gave my commitment. But because they was acting silly, I was like, yo, take it. I, I want to go anyway. You know what I'm saying? But, you know.

• 1:04:55Steven Bartlett?

  How do you feel towards Jay-Z now?

• 1:04:57Speaker 00

  I don't feel nothing.

• 1:04:58Steven Bartlett?

  No, no bad feelings, no good feelings?

• 1:05:03Speaker 00

  No feelings.

• 1:05:07Speaker 00

  I'd deal with feelings and they would probably not be so complimentary.

• 1:05:12Steven Bartlett?

  He's obviously achieved, you know, tremendous success in all he's done in multi-industries and all that kind of thing.

• 1:05:19Steven Bartlett?

  What is, what is it about him that you think has put him in that position? His characteristics?

• 1:05:23Speaker 00

  I don't want to talk about Jay.

• 1:05:24Steven Bartlett?

  You don't want to talk about him?

• 1:05:25Speaker 00

  Not really. Like, you know, I know what Rockefeller was and how he did business. So it's hard to, I, I don't even try to figure that shit out.

• 1:05:35Steven Bartlett?

  Period. You have a really unique perspective in the sense that you, you, you know, yourself, Kanye, Jay, you got to see the, the characteristics that made them go on their journeys. And that's really what I, what I was trying to get at is like, what are those?

• 1:05:46Speaker 00

  The difference between Jay and Kanye, and I say it, Jay is about the money, period. And Kanye is about the art and the money. But it's the art, you know what I mean? Like Jay, like, like, like Kanye is a real artist. Kanye is in different dimensions, like, you know, he's, he really focuses on that fashion. I never saw Jay do that, ever, not nothing near that. And he really focuses on his creative, like, he produces his own beats. And then he's about, like, sonically, he's really into how things are, like, like, I don't even understand what the fuck he's doing. When he makes beats. You know what I mean? Like, I know what a beat sound, but then he does some other shit that makes it like where other people respected. You know, he has, it's an art to what he does.

• 1:06:31Speaker 00

  And Kanye obviously has opinions. You know, he's not trying to fit in. So Kanye's whole thing is, I don't give a fuck.

• 1:06:44Speaker 00

  You know, he's an artist that likes war. But most artists, I don't know, I think if you, it's like, art is something that you really fight for if you love it.

• 1:06:55Speaker 00

  Even if your message is misunderstood.

• 1:06:58Steven Bartlett?

  Like, white lies matter.

• 1:07:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't understand it.

• 1:07:02Steven Bartlett?

  You don't understand his message there?

• 1:07:04Speaker 00

  No. Kanye, holla at me, bro. Explain that one to me.

• 1:07:10Steven Bartlett?

  I didn't understand that one either. I did try and read after I saw his post, but I still couldn't quite grasp.

• 1:07:16Steven Bartlett?

  Grasp what he was.

• 1:07:17Speaker 00

  Actually, don't holla at me. I don't want to talk about that. The only reason why I would want to talk to him is so I could know, so I could protect him. That's the only reason why, but other than that, it's like. Yeah, that one, that one there. I love Kanye.

• 1:07:32Steven Bartlett?

  Seems to have bothered you.

• 1:07:34Speaker 00

  Hmm?

• 1:07:34Steven Bartlett?

  Seems to have bothered you, that one.

• 1:07:37Speaker 00

  No. Nothing he does bothers me. I've learned, I know about Kanye, you know, and I know that his thing is to trigger. So he's a triggerer. So if, I'm not gonna be triggered, you know what I'm saying? Like, he likes that shit. I don't, I don't. I mean, I mean, you know, I, it's, it's fun to watch, but certain things I'd be like. But cer, you know, like I said, we, we have a relationship where if I don't agree with him, we have conversations. You feel me? And that might be why sometimes we don't speak for a while. But, you know what I'm saying? Like, with everyone that I love. I'm not gonna just say things are all right if they're not. I'm gonna tell you my perspective on it. And sometimes people don't want to hear that shit. I don't, I don't know what's going on, so I can't judge it, but I wouldn't have did that shit. You know what I'm saying? I, I didn't like it.

• 1:08:24Speaker 00

  I'm saying, I'm telling you right now, but I'm not gonna disown him, but I didn't like it. He's like that person in Thanksgiving, that uncle that you are, like I have, think about it like, you know, Stacy, I'd have Stacy Dash at my fucking Thanksgiving table. Imagine what that would be like.

• 1:08:43Speaker 00

  Shit, the elephant in the room gets addressed. You understand what I'm saying? But that'd be the reason why a lot of times it doesn't happen so often, because I'm always addressed. Not because I'm, you know, I just honestly would like to know, curiosity.

• 1:08:58Steven Bartlett?

  What did you learn from how Rockefeller came to end about business life people?

• 1:09:04Speaker 00

  I didn't look at the music, I didn't look at that as business. That's why I was like, it's not, they're not, it's not real business. So you gotta think about, I'm a, like, at that time, I'm a real businessman. That means I wanna be strategic, I wanna make plans. If nobody wants to do that shit and I'm doing it on my own, it becomes very frustrating. So I had to fight for Rockefeller, you know what I'm saying? I had to do it on my own. Had to fight for Rockefeller, I had to do it on my own. It was just too much fighting and then fighting for the, fighting with the people that I'm fighting for. It just was, you know, it was just like, I'm not fighting for a bunch of dudes. Like, it's just, you can't get, there's nothing to get from, to gain. So just like, yo, it's a bunch of ungrateful dudes. And I can't have my daughters around these dudes. You know?

• 1:09:47Steven Bartlett?

  Do you have trust issues?

• 1:09:48Speaker 00

  Hell yeah. There's no trust issues, I trust no one.

• 1:09:53Speaker 00

  You got, um, I got another drink?

• 1:09:55Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, can we pour up another drink?

• 1:10:00Speaker 00

  Say it. Yes, please.

• 1:10:02Steven Bartlett?

  We can just keep talking, it's okay, isn't it?

• 1:10:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's cool.

• 1:10:04Steven Bartlett?

  We can just keep talking. Yeah. You said you got, you got, you don't trust anybody?

• 1:10:11Speaker 00

  Do you?

• 1:10:13Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah?

• 1:10:13Speaker 00

  Cool.

• 1:10:15Steven Bartlett?

  Um, my girlfriend?

• 1:10:21Speaker 00

  You think if you make her really mad, you think she's gonna, you trust that she's gonna be fair?

• 1:10:26Steven Bartlett?

  Fair? What do you mean?

• 1:10:27Speaker 00

  If you do something unfair, will her reaction be fair?

• 1:10:31Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm, probably not.

• 1:10:33Speaker 00

  Next question.

• 1:10:33Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, I trust my...

• 1:10:36Speaker 00

  I mean, I trust my girl, but...

• 1:10:37Steven Bartlett?

  I trust Jack.

• 1:10:39Speaker 00

  Who?

• 1:10:40Steven Bartlett?

  Jack.

• 1:10:42Speaker 00

  Well, how much you trust him? He has your bank account numbers and shit?

• 1:10:44Steven Bartlett?

  I'd give him my bank account numbers.

• 1:10:46Speaker 00

  You would?

• 1:10:47Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah. My assistant, Sophia, I trust her as well. My brother runs his works full-time for my company, Jason, I trust it. He actually manages all my finances, my bank account, all my investment portfolio when I do Shark Tank Dragons Den.

• 1:11:00Speaker 00

  See how that works out?

• 1:11:01Steven Bartlett?

  It's going well so far. We don't, you know?

• 1:11:03Speaker 00

  No, no, no. No, I'm just saying this. Let me just say this. Of course, I have people around me and everyone has to deal with those things. But the trust thing is, I'm cut from a certain kind of cloth. So what may not be honorable to people because they're not from the same experience as me, it may be different version than what I see. So I don't trust that people look at things exactly the way I do. Like, some people don't think things that are disrespectful are because they're not a boss. You understand what I mean? Like, if you're not a person that's actually paid people for service, if you've never done that, which a lot of people have not, that judge me, which I don't care,

• 1:11:48Speaker 00

  then you can never, ever understand what it is to pay someone and then not do their job. You just never know what that is.

• 1:11:57Steven Bartlett?

  So you don't trust people?

• 1:11:59Speaker 00

  Nah.

• 1:12:02Speaker 00

  People don't even trust themselves.

• 1:12:04Steven Bartlett?

  There's no one in your life that you trust?

• 1:12:09Steven Bartlett?

  Your fiance?

• 1:12:11Speaker 00

  No, I mean, there's a level of trust, yeah.

• 1:12:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I trust, I trust her.

• 1:12:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, I trust, I trust my girl. But people, you know, like, family, it's like, whatever. If they fuck you over, they do. It is what it is. You know, that's, that's their burden to bear. You know what I mean? Like, karmically. But people that I don't have to trust, I don't.

• 1:12:36Speaker 00

  Like, I trust people like, yeah, but there's never a hun- you know, it'd be like, you never know what someone's doing when you're not looking, bro. People are different. You know, when you're a person that's cutting the checks, it's hard to trust people because they're just showing you what they have to show you to get the money.

• 1:12:58Speaker 00

  You feel me?

• 1:12:58Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 1:12:59Speaker 00

  You know, I was saying this, I was, you know, being in Florida, you understand real racism, like, motherfuckers is racist out there. You know what I mean? Like, broke motherfuckers, too. The crazy shit about, like, racism is like, being a wealthy, or what could appear to be a wealthy black man with a staff, and you might get someone from another culture and they'll be like, but you still not white. No matter how much money you got, like, I don't want to be white. You know what I'm saying? But they still have that chip, like, but, you know, it's that one thing that's like, I'm not trying to be that. You think that's what it is, I don't. You feel what I'm saying? But what I understood is, I've never had to feel racism because I'm always the person that's hiring and firing people. A racist is never gonna act like a racist in front of me.

• 1:13:45Speaker 00

  He'll get fired. Or worse. You know what I'm saying? But if you're a person that's not in that position, you have to deal with racism. Imagine someone that's racist, your boss. And that's a lot of people. So the only way to really combat racism is economic empowerment. You have to either own the bricks, you have to be the boss. And then you select the people that you want around you. And if they want to be racist, they better internalize that and go get some therapy because a black man's telling you what to do.

• 1:14:16Steven Bartlett?

  On that point of the people you have around you, how do you pick those people? What are you looking for when you're hiring somebody? Or you're looking for someone to partner with? What characteristics are you looking for?

• 1:14:25Speaker 00

  They gotta be the best at what they do, that I need to hire them for. And I prefer a certain kind of discipline.

• 1:14:31Steven Bartlett?

  What kind of discipline?

• 1:14:33Speaker 00

  That every hour of the day that you work and that you love what you do. You know, that you, that you respect my time and my money. But, you know, it's just really at this point- Like when you're looking to invest in somebody, you look at potential. But when I'm hiring somebody now, their potential has had to have already realized itself. Cause I'm paying you. It's like a professional team. So there's favors, there's certain relationships that I have that are completely personal.

• 1:15:02Speaker 00

  And I'll work with you because we have a personal relationship. I'll help you. That's personal.

• 1:15:08Speaker 00

  But when I'm really paying you, you just gotta be the, at this point, you need to be the best at what you do. So I'm, let's look at your work. You know what I mean? I, I just need to see your work. I need to see what you've done before you work with me. How, like, so if I hire a DP, I need to see they real.

• 1:15:26Steven Bartlett?

  What do you think about pessimism in, in people you're working with? Cause I, I've seen from watching your interviews that you seem to have a real problem with people that.

• 1:15:33Speaker 00

  I hate negative people. If you're negative, you gotta get away from me.

• 1:15:39Speaker 00

  And there are people that come negative, pause, because that's just what they've been raised, but they're skilled. And it hasn't worked out because of that. Cause it's just like, you just lead with negative first. You know, if, the first thing, if I have an idea, the first thing you wanna talk about is the problems with it. Then we got an issue. There's a time to talk about problems, but not while I'm dreaming.

• 1:16:00Steven Bartlett?

  And hard work. You know, in our culture, there's been a bit of a, I guess, a bit of a movement around hard work that, you know, work-life balance and these kind of conversations. What do you think about work-life balance and the importance of hard work and achieving big dreams?

• 1:16:14Speaker 00

  Hard work is everything. And if you look at the people, you know, there's this misconception that black people can only have black people work for them. You know what I mean? Like, you know.

• 1:16:26Steven Bartlett?

  In the US, more so than here.

• 1:16:27Speaker 00

  Probably.

• 1:16:28Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:29Speaker 00

  And that's where I'm coming from. That's PTSD, whatever.

• 1:16:31Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:31Speaker 00

  So, you know, what I find is, I'm not trying to only hire my culture because I, I, I know my culture, I know my culture. I'm trying to take over the whole world. So I'm gonna have Benetton and I have Benetton, like it's black, white, Chinese, it's every kind of person in my, in my crew. Because I wanna speak every language. I don't wanna be wrong. I, I don't wanna be good for somebody black. It's time to be good for being, I'm the best human. I'm going at everybody. And.

• 1:17:04Speaker 00

  There's also this thing where, you know, it's always like black people should only have education for black people. And I think there should be new education for black and white people. There just needs to be new education. It needs for us to figure out how to come together as a human race. Because it's been strategic that we've, for the last hundred years, we've been saying the black thing. Always, there's always separation, which gives fear, which is, what causes racism. But I just believe if we're, at least the landlords, and we can make a curriculum that everyone could fuck with, it's us make it. It's just about us being the ones to make the shit. I believe it would be good for everybody.

• 1:17:48Speaker 00

  No fear, because, you know, we're not worried about someone else and them taking over what it looks like. We already know what it looks like. You know what I mean? To be like, yo, let's keep everybody happy. As long as this division is out, nothing gets done. And again, that's another thing that I, I feel is strategic. So when I make a movie, I'm not like, oh, this movie's for black people. I'm like, this shit's for everybody. This ain't just good for black people. This is, my shit better than everybody's shit. You feel me? I'm not just trying to educate us, I'm trying to educate everybody. Because if we're the only one educated, then we really gonna have a big fight. Because once we getting enlightened and people acting stupid, we ain't gonna have it. So we have to evolve everyone. You understand what I mean? Who was, everyone needs to catch up. We're all human.

• 1:18:32Speaker 00

  Forget the past so much, learn from it. But let's talk about how to move forward in the future collectively.

• 1:18:37Steven Bartlett?

  You mentioned at the start of this conversation that you went and had therapy to understand yourself a little bit and to understand your triggers and what was triggering you and where that came from. What age did that happen?

• 1:18:47Speaker 00

  Well, being a child like myself, I was always put in therapy, no matter what. But I didn't talk. But as I got older, like when Aliyah died, I just always was looking at it like I might need a consultant that didn't have a dog in the fight to tell me if my actions were right or wrong, or to give me advice, sort of like a consoleri. But what I understand about therapy is black people don't get it. So the study of therapy doesn't come from our trauma. It comes from other people. So when we finally do get it, it's in the wrong language. So we have to find therapists that actually speak our language, that come from similar traumas, and they say, "No, don't talk to us." So that's why I have a program called Healing His Gangster, Taj. He's also in the commission. He's a therapist that's been through everything, if not more.

• 1:19:31Speaker 00

  And now he's actually a doc, got his doctorate, and he's a therapist, you know what I mean? And that's the person I talk to daily. Like, anytime that I'm unsure about how to react to certain things. The times I'm the most unsure is with my children. And that's when I call him. But then, you know, I had to fight to even be able to see my daughters. So I had to go to court ordered therapy. And I learned a lot there about how to raise my daughters. So the difference between 25-year-old Damon and 50-year-old Damon? 25-year-old Damon would have thought, because I had Boogie, I was a single father. No one ever talks about that. Went to court and got him. But I used to bring him in my environment and thought that was fathering. But with a child, you have to go to your child's environment. And I needed therapy to actually show me that.

• 1:20:15Speaker 00

  How much better it is for me to become a seven-year-old than for my seven-year-old to have to become a 50-year-old. You understand what I'm saying? And be in a place that they don't care about. See, the things that you care about as an adult, your kids don't care about. Just think about what you cared about at certain ages. So you'd be like, "Oh, you know, none of my kids care about any famous people." They don't even know them until they get older. They don't care about anything that I have, because that's all they know. It's not like a big deal. It's not like a comparison. Like, they're not in another, you know, life where they're, you know, some social class below. And then they're like, "Oh," you know what I mean? It's just what they know. They just want time. And they want you to do what they're doing. And they want you to speak in their language. And that's what I've learned.

• 1:20:58Speaker 00

  That's why I've made all of these with my girl, for my son. She's made children's books and syllabuses from the womb to three years old. And all this programming on how to interact with your child. You understand what I'm saying? So I'm a way better parent now, which is most important. What was the hardest moment in your life?

• 1:21:21Speaker 00

  When my mom died, when Aliyah died.

• 1:21:26Speaker 00

  When people die, that's the shit that's the hardest. But everything else is easy.

• 1:21:30Steven Bartlett?

  When I read about, well, I obviously remember the news, the global news when Aliyah died. But when I read about it before you came here, now that I'm in a relationship with someone that I love, I tried to play out, well, I played out in my head what that would feel like for me.

• 1:21:46Speaker 00

  Don't do it.

• 1:21:46Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, I just couldn't. I couldn't get there. My brain wouldn't let me go there.

• 1:21:49Speaker 00

  You don't wanna go there. It's a pain that you couldn't understand.

• 1:21:56Speaker 00

  But surviving that pain has made me very cool.

• 1:22:04Steven Bartlett?

  What was that period of your life like?

• 1:22:07Speaker 00

  It was sad, but, you know, things were going on. So it was like me, it was me organizing myself to still be strong, because when people see that you're weak, they attack, and people were actually getting cute. It was me proving to myself that I'm a real general, that I could work with a broken heart.

• 1:22:32Steven Bartlett?

  Is there a cost to that, always being strong?

• 1:22:35Speaker 00

  Nah. I'm not saying that I didn't feel. I'm just saying I had to learn. I had to lead by example. So in that moment, I was like, the way I react to this is how every single person that looks up to me is gonna react when they lose someone they love. You understand what I mean? And, you know, being at, you know, when you're running, or you're the, you know, not to say, when you're the head and you're, a lot of different people are depending on your strength. It's a life I've chosen. You feel me? So when you choose to be a certain way, or take a certain role,

• 1:23:19Speaker 00

  like, I would rather do that than sit around and be sad. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't wanna sit around and be sad. You know, for me, it's like life, I have so much fun that when natural tragedies happen, when things happen that are gonna happen, and people just, you know, a matter of when, I can't let that fuck up my front. It's just a test.

• 1:23:42Speaker 00

  But you know, it takes reading and and therapy to organize, to be able to move at a professional level. But, you know.

• 1:23:55Steven Bartlett?

  You're five children.

• 1:23:58Steven Bartlett?

  If they're to be successful and happy in their lives, what are the, what what lessons are you imparting on them to set them up for success and happiness?

• 1:24:06Speaker 00

  You know, the thing is, the the the people that are the hardest to talk to are my children, you know?

• 1:24:14Speaker 00

  But I think my daughter Ava,

• 1:24:20Speaker 00

  who's been through every, you know, as a youngster, been through the wars and all that, but like where she is now, I I really feel good about my parenting skills because she knows what happiness is. And she's just so, she just loves the family so much.

• 1:24:40Speaker 00

  I don't really think that way with my children, you know what I mean? It's just like, I just want them to be happy. And I just feel like it's my job to make sure that they're happy. But if they don't find it on their own, and the thing about children, when you have children, is after a certain age, they're not children no more. So you can be like, I got children. I don't have five kids. I have like three adults, you know what I'm saying? At least two. But they're still my kids. So if they're not happy, then I want to make sure they are. If their dreams, like my job is to make my kids' dreams come true. But they have to know what they are.

• 1:25:16Steven Bartlett?

  Do your kids know what their dreams are?

• 1:25:19Speaker 00

  Nah, it's a conversation I have often with them. And I'd be having like, yo, write it down. They don't even listen to me. I'd be like, huh.

• 1:25:29Speaker 00

  Should I get paid to say they don't listen to for free, you know? But they're still perfect to me.

• 1:25:40Speaker 00

  You know, it's hard because the good part thing about like baby Dusko, my son, is that Rocky is instilling everything that I'm instilling. There's no contradictions. Like if I say something, she's not saying I'm wrong. So there's no choice that has to be made. We're both instilling the same thing. So I'm curious to see how that one's gonna work out. All my kids are different. All of them.

• 1:26:05Steven Bartlett?

  You visualize, you visualize for your whole life. I was, I was reading about how when you were building Rockefeller, you would pull up at houses and go and view houses that you knew you couldn't afford. Because one day you knew you'd be able to afford them. And this sort of thread of visualization.

• 1:26:17Speaker 00

  I still do that.

• 1:26:18Steven Bartlett?

  Really? Still pulling up at houses?

• 1:26:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I could always buy them. I, I promise you, once I go look at a house and I want it, I figure it out.

• 1:26:27Steven Bartlett?

  My question is like, what are you, what are you visualizing now? You talked about living in that neighborhood where people sold out. But what is, what is Dame's?

• 1:26:34Speaker 00

  Right now, as far as business or personal?

• 1:26:37Steven Bartlett?

  Both.

• 1:26:38Speaker 00

  Personal, I'm visualizing like a hundred acres, having a farm and a studio and just frolicking, you know? But having a private jet, you know what I mean? And maybe it's in Hawaii, you know, that's there's a lot of things there. Business, it's turning Dame Dash Studios into what I call like a Disney, you know? You know, I'm visualizing buying schools, going into marketplaces where, you know, they might think is dilapidated and taking a something, a building that's messed up and turning it into something creative and bringing kids in there and teaching them. You know, there's a couple of laws I'm visualizing passing or getting passed. I'm visualizing what our culture looks like in the web three space.

• 1:27:24Speaker 00

  Getting past the monkeys. You know?

• 1:27:29Speaker 00

  And making it more about creativities and not some static. You know what I'm saying? That's not creative, that could have, you know, racial implications and connotations.

• 1:27:39Steven Bartlett?

  With all these things going on, you still said earlier that you feel like you're behind schedule in your life's roadmap.

• 1:27:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:27:45Steven Bartlett?

  If you were on schedule, what would that look like? All those things would be true? All of those things would have been realized? All of those dreams?

• 1:27:51Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's crazy, cuz.

• 1:27:55Speaker 00

  I think what I'm most bothered about is the fashion business for me. Cause you know, I did a lot with Rachel and then like, it's like we flushed that one down the toilet. And I really love fashion. So I, I, I, I, I think the next thing that I want to get back in fashion. And also my age, like I'm 50. And I've always wondered like, what I would look like fashion wise at 50. Cause you know, styles change and I'm not trendy. I'm more like, I'm kind of, but not really. You feel me? And a lot of the people that I've molded, or at least that I worked with when they were younger, are now doing very well in fashion. So I'm like, I, I always liked the fashion world. That was always my favorite world.

• 1:28:38Speaker 00

  So I gotta get back. I think I want to get back into fashion.

• 1:28:42Steven Bartlett?

  We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest asks a question for the next guest. They don't know who they're asking it for. So, and I don't get to see it till I open the book. The question that's been left for you is, what are you most missing in your life? It actually says, what are you missing most in your life?

• 1:29:01Speaker 00

  Right now, I be missing my children. Cause they're all doing their own thing and I can't never get them all at one time. You know what I mean? Like I gotta get like a day, a couple of times a year that all my kids. Like I'm always with three at a time or two. I never have them all in the same house. I'm, I'm missing that. I'm missing my daughters a lot. Cause I've been on a roll.

• 1:29:27Speaker 00

  I miss Aaliyah. I'm always curious like if Aaliyah and Rocky knew each other, what that would look like. You know what I'm saying? Cause I, I see so much of, like Rocky has a lot of similarities to Aaliyah that people would not even understand.

• 1:29:43Steven Bartlett?

  You, you still miss her?

• 1:29:44Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. She's, she was the coolest. Like, you know, unless you were able to experience her, you could, it'd be hard for you to understand. She, she was, she still is. She was magic. But again,

• 1:30:00Speaker 00

  the type of magic she is, it was like, when I could, I never thought I'd see that magic again. But I saw it in Raquel, in a very unsuspecting place. Which was odd. But yeah, she was different. And you know, to me.

• 1:30:17Speaker 00

  Like, in history, I think she'll go down as probably the coolest woman singer, coolest, of all time. And when she was alive, she was like, had that aura of coolness of being the coolest. And she told me I was the coolest. You feel me? So, you know, what does your life look like? Or how do you feel about yourself when Aaliyah tells you that you're the coolest? And Aaliyah. You understand what I'm thinking? You understand what I'm saying?

• 1:30:49Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:30:49Speaker 00

  What kind of confidence do you have?

• 1:30:51Steven Bartlett?

  It's a big question.

• 1:30:52Speaker 00

  What kind of validation do you have when you could really be like, Aaliyah told me I was the coolest person she ever met? A lot of people have told me that, but Aaliyah told me that.

• 1:31:06Steven Bartlett?

  I'm so inspired, I'm really inspired by so many things you've said, but really the dedication to art and being an artist, I think, is something that people don't speak about enough, because everyone's trying to get the bag and business and build. But the art is obviously where the emotion, the love and the expression is.

• 1:31:21Speaker 00

  The bag has always been the distraction.

• 1:31:24Speaker 00

  Money is the devil, bro.

• 1:31:27Speaker 00

  Makes you forget everything that makes you happy.

• 1:31:31Steven Bartlett?

  There's no way to get both at the same time?

• 1:31:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, be art, be artist. I'm doing it.

• 1:31:38Speaker 00

  I just told you, it comes with a fight. But, you're an artist, right?

• 1:31:42Steven Bartlett?

  I DJ, I write books, I have a musical that tours the country. That's my art, that's the piece of me where I go, I ain't doing this for money. And it doesn't, if we make money, we give the money to charity. So that's my art.

• 1:31:53Speaker 00

  Is that when you're having your most fun?

• 1:31:54Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, this is art for me.

• 1:31:56Speaker 00

  Exactly. So why not make money off what makes you the happiest?

• 1:31:59Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, that's a good point.

• 1:32:02Speaker 00

  Usually because you don't have confidence in the fact that you could.

• 1:32:06Speaker 00

  But that's what I decided to do, have complete confidence in my artistry. I just want to make money off me. I'll help people get money, but first and foremost, it gotta be about me.

• 1:32:20Steven Bartlett?

  Dane, thank you. Thank you for your time. Thanks for coming here. You're someone that I've admired from afar for many, many years, from an art perspective, a business perspective. And I've watched your videos and your mindset, I think, is the thing that I think everybody can take the most from, because a mindset and your mindset really is like a fishing rod. It's like a way to maneuver life in order to orientate yourself towards success and get outcomes. Dane, thank you.