Jeffisode About Penis Injuries: The Pacu Fish, the Candiru Fish, and Lorena Bobbitt

In 1993, Lorena Bobbitt severed her husband's penis with a kitchen knife while he was asleep in bed. But before getting to that story, Jeff covers a couple of fish that may or may not have a habit of going after male genitalia. Watch here: https://youtu.be/j2iQPZ0txMs ~~ To advertise on the show, contact us! ~~ Tooth & Claw is brought to you by QCODE. Support the show and get access to an extensive library of exclusive episodes like this by supporting the show on Patreon or joining the Grizzly Club on Apple Podcasts. For the latest updates on the show and all things wildlife, follow us at toothandclawpod.com and social: Instagram: @ToothandClawPodcast Twitter: @ToothandClawPod Wes: @GrizKid Jeff: @jefe_larson Mike: @mikey3ds Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:13Jeff Larson?

  Hello listeners, welcome back to Tooth and Claw Podcast. Wes Larson is back with us. We did a subscription episode without him, yet explosive diarrhea.

• 0:23Wes Larson?

  Huge diarrhea problems.

• 0:26Jeff Larson?

  Or you were guiding birds.

• 0:28Wes Larson?

  I forget.

• 0:28Wes Larson?

  One of the two. I forget too.

• 0:31Jeff Larson?

  And then we have Mike Smith, our sound guy, and I am Jeff Larson, our backup, our backup bear guy.

• 0:42Wes Larson?

  Yeah, sure.

• 0:44Wes Larson?

  Here we are. We're all three here again. Boy, did I miss you guys this week.

• 0:49Mike Smith?

  Yeah, we barely made it without you.

• 0:51Jeff Larson?

  Oh, yeah, we, we had a little off the rails episode. A lot of laughing.

• 0:56Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 0:57Jeff Larson?

  Whole episode of laughing.

• 1:00Wes Larson?

  I had a good week in Yellowstone.

• 1:01Mike Smith?

  Hey.

• 1:02Wes Larson?

  You guys want to hear a tiny bit about it?

• 1:04Mike Smith?

  Yeah, I do.

• 1:04Wes Larson?

  Uh, I saw 29 bears.

• 1:09Jeff Larson?

  In how many days?

• 1:10Wes Larson?

  12 grizzlies and the rest black bears in six and a half days.

• 1:15Mike Smith?

  Did you win?

• 1:16Wes Larson?

  Win what?

• 1:17Mike Smith?

  Did anyone see more bears than you? Are you kind of like the Joey Chestnut?

• 1:20Wes Larson?

  I'm sure there's people that saw, no, there's people that saw more bears. There's people that that's all they do there is they just sun up to sundown, just look for bears in the park. We saw some wolves kill a calf and then the mom like chasing the wolves around and it was up pretty close. That was cool. Uh, lots of great birds. It was mostly a burning trip and boy, did we see a lot of birds and some good ones. Harlequin ducks, those are my favorites there. Boy, do I love those harlequin ducks. American dippers feeding young.

• 1:50Jeff Larson?

  No, you've lost.

• 1:51Wes Larson?

  You saw some young feeding Jeff? American dippers?

• 1:54Jeff Larson?

  Who lose? You named two.

• 1:57Mike Smith?

  What were they eating? Dippin' dots?

• 1:59Wes Larson?

  Uh, probably little bugs. They're little aquatic birds, aquatic songbird.

• 2:03Jeff Larson?

  Oh, the challenge was just to name one.

• 2:06Wes Larson?

  Yeah, you're right.

• 2:07Mike Smith?

  You know Wes.

• 2:08Wes Larson?

  I'm not good at following rules, Jeff. Not a rule follower.

• 2:11Mike Smith?

  He's a rebel.

• 2:12Wes Larson?

  I'm wearing a sweatshirt in my studio. It's gonna get real hot. So I, people that are watching this over video will get to see me in different stages of heating up during this entire recording. Isn't that gonna be fun?

• 2:23Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, it seems like, just seems like you should take it off right now.

• 2:27Wes Larson?

  This sweatshirt's really hard to take off.

• 2:30Jeff Larson?

  Oh yeah, so in the middle of the episode, it would be much better.

• 2:34Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 2:36Wes Larson?

  Um, but that's pretty much it for me. My Robin seems to be gone, so that's nice. Maybe we won't hear it chirping in the back of this episode.

• 2:44Jeff Larson?

  I'm sure listeners will be sad to know it's gone, you know?

• 2:47Wes Larson?

  Yeah, it was pretty much a forepost.

• 2:49Jeff Larson?

  We should have intro'd it, yeah. Mike, you got anything new?

• 2:53Mike Smith?

  No, I was thinking about Robin when Wes brought up Robin. They really did him a disservice, giving him his little outfit when he was Batman's helper. I feel like that's kind of primarily the reason we don't see more Robin in Batman movies. It's because we don't really know how to deal with his costume anymore.

• 3:11Jeff Larson?

  It's not cool enough.

• 3:12Mike Smith?

  It was fine back in like the 1950s or whatever, but like, we can't really have a little boy running around in like a vest and stuff, looking cool.

• 3:20Wes Larson?

  They haven't really updated his costume the same way that we've updated Batman's.

• 3:25Jeff Larson?

  There's that one Robin that turns into like Nightwing or something?

• 3:29Wes Larson?

  Yeah, that was cool.

• 3:30Jeff Larson?

  And he's like, man, that guy is making me dress like such a dork. And then he like gets like a cool one finally. I just know it from the video games. There's, what were you gonna say, Wes?

• 3:41Wes Larson?

  Between guiding and just, my, my property right now is just a lot to take care of. I've just been a little overwhelmed. And so Jeff, you know, graciously is stepping in this week and he's hosting this. He's gonna be the, the lead on this episode. And I'm really excited to see what he came up with.

• 3:58Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, so actually, that's a great segue. So Wes, how big is your penis?

• 4:04Wes Larson?

  Hmm. Uh, I'm not gonna say.

• 4:07Jeff Larson?

  Just kidding.

• 4:08Mike Smith?

  Measure it by bosses. How many bosses is it?

• 4:11Jeff Larson?

  But today is a penis episode, so that was the segue that I have written down and I thought of beforehand.

• 4:19Wes Larson?

  I'm not gonna, yeah, we're not gonna.

• 4:20Jeff Larson?

  No, I was just kidding. But anyways, there's a lot of penis talk in this episode. I'm either gonna be like...

• 4:29Jeff Larson?

  Let's get more Jeff episodes or all right, we can take a break from Jeff for a while now. That's it's not gonna be just another episode though.

• 4:39Mike Smith?

  Jeff gave us a little bit of a teaser with a text last night saying, I'm in a real crazy rabbit hole right now. Preparing this episode and now I'm really wondering how deep that rabbit hole went on this one.

• 4:50Wes Larson?

  I'm very curious.

• 4:51Jeff Larson?

  I will say to the third, I have three stories and the third one, you might want to listen to it's, it's definitely PG 13. You might want to like proof it for any kids listening.

• 5:03Wes Larson?

  Yeah, this might be like a European PG 13 episode, like whatever their version of PG 13 is so.

• 5:10Jeff Larson?

  But yeah, Wes, Wes was, well, first of all, I was prepping a hippo episode and Wes was like, yeah, we told that in a news episode. I could not remember it at all. So I'm losing my marbles a little bit.

• 5:24Wes Larson?

  It was one with within the last year too.

• 5:27Jeff Larson?

  The lady who got eaten by a hippo. So anyways, Wes sent me some suggestions. He sent me two suggestions and one of them was just a clip from the show River Monsters with Jeremy Wade. And he's investigating Papua New Guinea, the Sepik River. And anyways, so I, I decided to go with that one and the episode, it's, or episode one, season three. And it's called the mutilator and you know, Wes must've thought I'd be good at penis episode too. Because you know, he'd sent me that and he's like, maybe you should do this one.

• 6:06Wes Larson?

  You know, over the years of tooth and claw, there's been a lot of penis related jokes that have made it to the cutting room floor. And often from Jeff and often, you know, we have to kind of talk a little bit about why those get cut. And so I just really wanted to just let Jeff get it all out in one episode.

• 6:26Jeff Larson?

  Would you say I'm an expert?

• 6:28Wes Larson?

  I would say you're an expert at making penis jokes. Yes. I would say you have excelled in that. And I'm an expert at cutting them out of the episode. So, um, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna let Jeff really take the reins here and just, and just go with it.

• 6:45Mike Smith?

  How much circumcising them out of the episodes?

• 6:49Jeff Larson?

  River monsters. That's actually not a penis indumental. It's about.

• 6:54Wes Larson?

  That old, that old silver fox, Jeremy Wade.

• 6:57Jeff Larson?

  How many episodes of that have you watched?

• 7:00Wes Larson?

  I've, I've probably only watched like five and a couple of them have been because of episodes that we've done, like the gooch, how the gooch stole Christmas.

• 7:07Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 7:08Wes Larson?

  Gooch.

• 7:08Jeff Larson?

  Gooch. Gooch is something else.

• 7:11Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 7:13Wes Larson?

  Well, you know, we're on the topic.

• 7:15Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, they've stolen a few Christmases too, I bet.

• 7:22Jeff Larson?

  Anyways, in this episode, Jeremy goes out to a really remote group of people, tribe, whatever you want to call them, out in Papua New Guinea, who are like really just isolated from the rest of the world. You can only get there from a boat. And they're just living off of the water, this, this septic river and like fishing, getting food from the river. They survive off of it. So they're like extremely reliant on this water, but then there's been like a few stories that have gone out into the world of people whose penises have been bitten off while they're in the water and that they bled out and died afterwards.

• 8:04Jeff Larson?

  And there is like, I don't know, for our female listeners, I think they kind of get it, but not complete, like you can never completely get, just like a for a man, it's like, that's just one of the biggest, holy shit, I can't, that's the worst thing that could happen to me. Type of feeling in you, even if it's not actually the worst thing that could happen to you, like it feels like that. Like I remember as a kid, I brought it up in Mike's most recent episode, watching Mission Impossible two, where he gets shot in the penis. I was like, oh no, he can't have sex anymore.

• 8:44Wes Larson?

  It also like, and I, and I think the female experience in a lot of ways physically can present some like pain that we could never understand. Like pregnancy for people that get pregnant, there's certain things that just like men will never be able to understand that type of pain. But there is something very unique about getting kicked or punched in your groin pain. It's just, it is all encompassing crazy pain. And so when you see someone's genitals get hurt on like TV or movies or whatever, you just, you just feel it. It's kind of like how when we see someone sprain their ankle, because we've all had ankle injuries, it makes us kind of cringe in a different way.

• 9:27Wes Larson?

  And that's how I feel about penis injuries as well.

• 9:30Jeff Larson?

  In the Jackass movies, they'll have like a, someone serving a tennis ball at them like a hundred fifty miles an hour.

• 9:37Wes Larson?

  Right.

• 9:38Jeff Larson?

  And it'll be like, they'll just cover their privates.

• 9:41Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 9:42Jeff Larson?

  And it's like, their face is completely exposed and everything else is just like, I'll take it everywhere but there, you know?

• 9:49Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 9:50Jeff Larson?

  So anyways, there's just something ingrained in us. Don't mess with that area. So I think it's like a fascination and obviously Jeremy was like, let's go figure what hap, what's going on out there. So he talks to some people and there's like someone named Francis and then also a local fisherman who have both been attacked in the water. And they both say it's feels like humans are biting them. And it's like hu- human bites on their legs. And one of the people thought it was like the spirit of the river was trying to like pull him in because it felt like humans just like biting him and pulling it.

• 10:29Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 10:30Mike Smith?

  Interesting. Probably not, right?

• 10:32Jeff Larson?

  Probably not.

• 10:36Jeff Larson?

  So yeah, Jeremy starts to catch fish and he catches a fish that really surprises him called a paku and it surprises him because these are from South America.

• 10:46Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 10:47Jeff Larson?

  And he did not expect it in this water. And he goes and like talks to the tribal leader and the tribal leader is like, yeah, they introduced them 15 years ago to like, try to give us more fish to be able to catch. And it's like destroying everything.

• 11:02Mike Smith?

  We're gonna be eating paku when we go to Brazil soon.

• 11:05Jeff Larson?

  Ooh.

• 11:05Mike Smith?

  That that is the fish that more more than often you get served.

• 11:09Jeff Larson?

  Mm hmm. Okay.

• 11:10Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 11:11Jeff Larson?

  And they're closely related to piranhas. They just look like a big piranha, but they have rectangular teeth instead of like the sharp pointy teeth. And they pretty much in Brazil, in their native area, they pretty much are known as being like a vegetarian fish that eats nuts that fall into the water.

• 11:30Mike Smith?

  Mm hmm.

• 11:31Jeff Larson?

  So they have super powerful jaws to like break open these nuts and eat nuts. So when Jeremy first catches one, it's like kind of a smaller one. He's kind of like, it probably isn't this. These don't eat like these don't target meat. And then he starts using meat and he just keeps catching them. And then when he like interviews more of the villagers, it's just like, yeah, we're getting bit by humans and these things look like they have human teeth.

• 12:00Mike Smith?

  They really do.

• 12:01Jeff Larson?

  Mike, look at this.

• 12:02Mike Smith?

  See, I don't, I don't like it when fish have teeth that I guess really have teeth at all. Except for shark teeth, I guess, but these are, these aren't nice to look at.

• 12:13Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, they're still, they're sharper than a humans, humans teeth, but they look like humans.

• 12:18Mike Smith?

  They look very human. Yeah, it's unsettling.

• 12:21Jeff Larson?

  So it stands to reason after he keeps catching these, you know what? Maybe these are the fish attacking people.

• 12:29Mike Smith?

  Biting people's nuts.

• 12:30Jeff Larson?

  But in the episode.

• 12:30Mike Smith?

  They're nut eaters, dude.

• 12:32Jeff Larson?

  Um, like one of, one of the people that was reported to have died from one of these fish. He actually interviews that person. The person obviously didn't die. He was hospitalized. So I'm not sure how much truth there is to the whole viral thing of them like specifically targeting uh penises.

• 12:54Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 12:55Jeff Larson?

  But they definitely are attacking people whose legs are in the water. And it stands to reason that like, yeah, they might get a penis every once in a while.

• 13:06Wes Larson?

  Right.

• 13:07Jeff Larson?

  But it's one of those things, I couldn't build a whole story off of it because this is like a super remote tribe. You know, they're not like reporting stuff to the outside world. So it's really hard to really verify what's actually going on there.

• 13:23Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 13:23Jeff Larson?

  And, you know.

• 13:25Wes Larson?

  It doesn't, yeah, it's not like totally outside of the realm of possibility that these would bite people too, because they are closely related to piranha. This is a really close cousin to piranhas. So it doesn't, you know, I, I'm sure he wasn't totally shocked when people thought they might be getting bit by paku's, right?

• 13:44Jeff Larson?

  Well, at first he was really dismissive of it. And he was like, that, that's not gonna be it. But then like, once he kept catching them and like, once he interviewed more people and they were like, yeah, it was getting bit by humans. He is kind of like, well, it, I think he just viewed it as a fish that wasn't going to search for meat.

• 14:03Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 14:03Jeff Larson?

  But then like the thing, the other thing is you, he was, what it took in the episode was like Jeremy was like, he knew Pacu fish and he knew their habits and what they did. And it didn't fit the narrative. But then the fish doesn't fit the ecosystem either. So like, they ate up all of the vegetation really fast. And honestly did a ton of damage to the local fish, to the local vegetation, to the crocodiles even like, there's reported them like eating hatchlings. One of the, the tribe leaders said he saw like a crocodile trying to get out of the water while they were just trying to eat it.

• 14:45Wes Larson?

  Oh, wow.

• 14:46Jeff Larson?

  And so it's like destroying this ecosystem and pretty much probably what's happened is in Brazil, way more nuts and fruit fall into the water and they're able to just live off of that. But in this ecosystem, there wasn't nearly enough vegetation, so they turned to meat.

• 15:04Wes Larson?

  Turned to dicks.

• 15:06Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 15:07Mike Smith?

  Exactly. Well, I was thinking if you see something swimming around and you're trying to get at kind of like the easiest to bite part, I think the penis might be it, right?

• 15:17Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 15:18Mike Smith?

  Like, nothing else is quite as dangly and just out there for you to go grab onto.

• 15:22Wes Larson?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 15:23Jeff Larson?

  And it's like the best, if you have like big old jaws like that, that's like the most meat you could bite off with one bite.

• 15:30Wes Larson?

  Yeah, it's gonna be the most satisfying bite, for sure.

• 15:34Jeff Larson?

  What's his name in Game of Thrones? There's Theon and who's the guy that cuts it off?

• 15:40Wes Larson?

  Uh, yeah, uh, the bastard, Ramsay, Ramsay Bolton.

• 15:44Jeff Larson?

  And he's just eating a big old sausage.

• 15:47Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 15:49Wes Larson?

  He's a baku fish. Yeah.

• 15:52Wes Larson?

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• 16:37Wes Larson?

  And those are people that are living through Wyoming winters, so they really know warm. The Hometown Down Jacket is 800 fill down, but it feels more like your favorite hoodie than it does a puffy. And for me, I am really excited about the Men's Furnos Max Insulated Jacket. I'm constantly looking for a jacket that just ticks all the boxes. And this one really does. It's stretchy, it's breathable, it looks great, it keeps me super warm. It's just amazing. I just absolutely love this jacket. So ski season's almost here. Gear up now the way that the locals do. Go to stio.com/tooth for 20% off your order. That's S T I O dot com slash tooth, stio.com slash tooth. Stio, designed and tested in Jackson Hole.

• 17:21Jeff Larson?

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• 18:06Jeff Larson?

  help you find the ED option that works for you. Start your free online visit today at hims.com/tooth. That's H I M S dot com slash tooth for your personalized ED treatment options. hims.com/tooth. The featured products include compounded products which are not approved nor verified for safety, effectiveness, or quality by the FDA. Prescription required. See website for full details, restrictions, and important safety information. Price varies based on product and subscription plan. Alright, so, that's what I got for paku fish. I couldn't really find anything about an actual case of a penis getting bit off and them going to the hospital, though.

• 18:48Wes Larson?

  Hmm, oh, okay.

• 18:49Mike Smith?

  But you can imagine what it'd be like if one did.

• 18:53Wes Larson?

  There weren't any stories on the episode?

• 18:55Jeff Larson?

  There's stories, but it's all just like the villagers saying this happened.

• 19:00Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 19:01Jeff Larson?

  So, that made me have to look into other penis fish, right?

• 19:06Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 19:09Jeff Larson?

  So there's the Candiru fish. Wes, you know that one?

• 19:13Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 19:14Jeff Larson?

  The Candiru fish is found in the Amazon region of South America. Conjur.

• 19:20Wes Larson?

  Well.

• 19:20Jeff Larson?

  And it's a type of catfish. It's about an inch long and has a thin eel-like appearance. And it's parasitic, so it uses spines on the covers of its gill to attach itself to gills of other larger fish. And then it's able to feed on those fish blood.

• 19:39Wes Larson?

  Oh, weird.

• 19:40Jeff Larson?

  The, this is the one, Mike, you've seen the movie The Rundown, right?

• 19:44Wes Larson?

  Of course. It's like-

• 19:46Jeff Larson?

  Where the rock gets in the water and she's like, don't pee or the fish will swim up your penis?

• 19:52Wes Larson?

  Oh, I know that. This is, I watch that movie once a week. Saturdays at eight. Sean Williams Scott. I think it's great. Yeah. Loved it. Christopher Walken.

• 20:04Jeff Larson?

  There's a while where that just like was a thing that everyone thought existed though, in the world.

• 20:10Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Oh, it's, to this day, it's still, when you're in Brazil, people still talk about conjuror. I think I'm saying that right. But it's like happened like once, right?

• 20:19Jeff Larson?

  It's, it's C A N D I R U.

• 20:24Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 20:24Jeff Larson?

  I couldn't, I couldn't find any like scientific proof that's ever happened.

• 20:30Wes Larson?

  Really? There's stories of them removing them from urethras. I, cause I've looked into this for an episode before. Yeah, they're out there.

• 20:37Jeff Larson?

  Okay.

• 20:38Wes Larson?

  It's happened. Yeah.

• 20:39Jeff Larson?

  You know what? But mainly it is like myth, right?

• 20:44Wes Larson?

  No, it's happened before. There's like a medical record of them removing. I think it's only happened once though. And that's why it's, and they think it might've just been like a freak accident. But because of that, the myth has been passed along, but it has happened.

• 20:58Jeff Larson?

  Right. If you're wrong about this, I'm gonna be mad.

• 21:01Wes Larson?

  The myth is that it will happen if you pee, I think is more what's being said, rather than it's never ever happened. Right. The most recent reported case occurred in 1997. A report made in Portuguese, a Brazilian urologist claimed to have removed a conjuror from a person's urethra. But there's inconsistencies, yada, yada, yada.

• 21:21Jeff Larson?

  Okay.

• 21:22Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 21:22Jeff Larson?

  All right. Well, great. That actually makes it better, I think.

• 21:26Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 21:27Jeff Larson?

  Like that it can happen. The things that are myth is like, there's a lot of talk about if you're peeing, it makes it so they're attracted to the pee and will swim up your urethra of your penis. And there's like no evidence or anything to support that.

• 21:43Wes Larson?

  Right.

• 21:43Jeff Larson?

  And there's even myths that have gone so far to say that they can climb out of the water and swim up. They'll, if you're peeing into a pool of water, they'll swim up the trail.

• 21:55Wes Larson?

  Stream.

• 21:56Jeff Larson?

  Into your penis. So like, it's kind of good because like, you really shouldn't be peeing into fresh water. So it's like, at least people aren't peeing into freshwater pools then just because they're afraid of.

• 22:12Wes Larson?

  Maybe that's how it all started is just someone was like, I'm so tired of everyone peeing in this good water. Let's make up a lie so people stop.

• 22:20Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 22:22Jeff Larson?

  That they can only be removed through surgical methods, which include penis amputation is like a myth that goes on about them. Uh, also that they'll, uh, lay eggs in the bladder.

• 22:34Wes Larson?

  Ooh. Yeah, that one's good.

• 22:36Jeff Larson?

  You know what? Maybe one has went into a penis and put its little spikes in there and won't get out. So that's pretty crazy.

• 22:45Wes Larson?

  Yeah. I mean, I found a, I found a medical paper that says when it swims into the urethra, it can be difficult to pull out by its tails because the umbrella like spines near its head may extend and prevent its removal. Forced extraction may cause lacerations of the urethral mucous membranes, which has caused death by exsanguination. Remedies have ranged from penile amputation and sub, subrepubic cystomy, to application of a native herb that softens the spines of the conjuror. So maybe, I mean, I, maybe in some of these like little villages in the Amazon, this has happened more than we know.

• 23:20Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, kind of like our piranha story where it's like, from like scientific papers is like hard to find any proof that piranhas had killed anyone, but once you started interviewing people, it's like.

• 23:31Wes Larson?

  Right. Oh, yeah. My cousin got killed by one. Yeah.

• 23:34Jeff Larson?

  Okay.

• 23:35Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 23:35Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. That's on me. I should have researched that a little bit harder, I guess, but thank you, Wes, for knowing that. And pretty serious stuff.

• 23:44Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 23:48Jeff Larson?

  So here's the one I really dove deep into and you guys probably are familiar with the story, but I'm sure a lot of our listeners maybe maybe some people have never heard it, but I don't think the majority of people have dove deep into it.

• 24:06Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 24:06Jeff Larson?

  So I was just thinking penises, right?

• 24:09Wes Larson?

  Right.

• 24:10Jeff Larson?

  I was like, what's a good penis story? I was like, when I was growing up, there is a lady who cut off a guy's penis and like

• 24:18Wes Larson?

  Lorena Bobbitt.

• 24:19Jeff Larson?

  Threw it out in the in the grass.

• 24:22Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 24:22Jeff Larson?

  So yeah, John and Lorena Bobbitt in Manassas, Virginia, June 23rd, 1993. And before I get into this one, I just want to quote Logan Paul real quick. And he says, I don't want to sound like a woke asshole, but dude, women have it hard.

• 24:45Wes Larson?

  Why is?

• 24:47Jeff Larson?

  But

• 24:49Jeff Larson?

  You know, I'm fine sounding like a woke asshole, but also I do agree women have it hard.

• 24:55Wes Larson?

  Yeah. So wait, you're just telling the Lorena Bobbitt story for the end of this episode?

• 25:00Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 25:04Wes Larson?

  All right. Welcome to our wildlife podcast.

• 25:07Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. Well, don't worry. I'll tie I'll tie at least two animals into it.

• 25:12Wes Larson?

  Okay. Yeah.

• 25:16Jeff Larson?

  So June 23rd, 1993, 4 a.m. Cops were called about like a domestic violence dispute, right?

• 25:26Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 25:27Jeff Larson?

  So some of the cops go to this house and they like hear what actually happened, but then they're too afraid to put it over their radios because people listen into cop radios, I guess.

• 25:39Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 25:40Jeff Larson?

  So they're just like

• 25:41Wes Larson?

  What was the date? Sorry.

• 25:42Jeff Larson?

  Uh, June 23rd.

• 25:44Wes Larson?

  Okay. What year?

• 25:45Jeff Larson?

  1993.

• 25:46Wes Larson?

  All right. It's like two weeks after Jurassic Park was released.

• 25:51Jeff Larson?

  Nice. A lot of stuff was going on, right?

• 25:54Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 25:55Jeff Larson?

  In this. There is a peak entertainment possibly. But anyways, on the radio telling responding officers that there's a missing appendage. And people don't really know what they're looking for, but they don't want to like air everything out over the radio. So anyways, Lorena, she went to her sleeping husband and then she played with it while he was asleep to make it hard. And then she made a clean cut at the base and cut it like straight off, right?

• 26:29Mike Smith?

  Wow. What was the tool? Do you know?

• 26:32Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. But no, it was like a eight inch knife, like really sharp Japanese kitchen knife.

• 26:39Mike Smith?

  Japanese. Oh, interesting detail.

• 26:42Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. So then, um.

• 26:46Mike Smith?

  If that's gonna happen to you, you want it to be the sharpest possible knife.

• 26:50Jeff Larson?

  Oh, I should say too, my source, I watched a docu- a four part documentary series on, it's called Lorena and is produced by Jordan Peele. You've watched it?

• 27:03Mike Smith?

  Oh, wow. Really. It's really good.

• 27:05Jeff Larson?

  So then, in this documentary, there's a lady who was supposed to, you know, help find the knife and penis. And she says that cops told her that they thought Lorena may have swallowed the penis. So, so there's just like mass confusion right now. They don't know where the penis is. She's pretty, um, she's not found at this point. So they just don't know what's going on.

• 27:31Mike Smith?

  That's such good plausible deniability. Like you swallow basically the centerpiece of the crime. They can't blame you for anything. You're, you're, you're walking, walking free after that.

• 27:44Jeff Larson?

  You know, but they're like a really good looking young couple too, just to set the stage a little bit. So I'm gonna get into John a little bit here. John says that he was asleep and he felt a tug and then a hard jerk while he was sleeping. And he says that he was just imagining Freddy Krueger's hand coming through the wall. I think he probably is like made that up a bit, you know, but it's still funny. He's an ex marine and then at the time was like a current bartender, twenty six years old. He fell in love with Lorena and he's kind of a bit of a character.

• 28:27Jeff Larson?

  You just wait for me. I'll, I'm gonna get into all of it, but he, just to show. He found her engagement ring at a public pool and like came home and just like proposed to it. After he found the ring. Like, I don't know.

• 28:46Mike Smith?

  Was he like not going to propose had he not found that ring? And he just saw the ring. I guess maybe that's a sign.

• 28:52Wes Larson?

  Waiting until he found one.

• 28:54Jeff Larson?

  Well, let's just say one of his nicknames after the incident was Forrest Stump.

• 29:00Mike Smith?

  Great.

• 29:01Jeff Larson?

  Forrest Gump. He wasn't the smartest guy, so it could have just been like, he found a ring and was like, alright, I'm gonna.

• 29:09Mike Smith?

  Nothing else to do with this ring.

• 29:11Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 29:13Jeff Larson?

  But yeah, when it happened, his friend, Robert Johnson, was also staying at the house, which like, that'd be insane to like be invited to your friend's house and.

• 29:26Wes Larson?

  Have your friend get his dick cut off?

• 29:28Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. And then, uh, I just wanna play a little clip from the documentary here.

• 29:34Speaker 03

  I collected myself and applied pressure and, uh, um, my friend Robbie was staying with us. I woke Rob, my friend up. I kicked him and, um, he didn't realize what was happening. Uh, cause he just woke up asleep. I kind of was like waiting for my friend to get ready, cause he, he went and brushed his teeth.

• 29:58Speaker 04

  So, why do you think she did this to you?

• 30:00Speaker 05

  Well, I was divorcing her, leaving, leaving the marriage, telling her that our marriage didn't work out. She wanted to keep the marriage and, uh, they tried to make it work and, uh, she felt real hurt about me ending it.

• 30:11Jeff Larson?

  Alright, so, it's just, that was like, pretty quick after that interview, he's young, he's, it's like, pretty quick after the incident, and the audience are just laughing at him, right?

• 30:25Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 30:26Jeff Larson?

  But, pretty much, he says like, "I woke my friend up and he went and like brushed his teeth and here he is just bleeding out." And he even says like, "It took him a really long time to figure out what happened." So like, cops on the scene, the bed, there was like a big pool of blood on the bed. The, you know, Dexter, whoever their blood scientist is, comes in there, and they're just like, "Yeah, this guy stayed on his bed for like, way too long."

• 30:59Mike Smith?

  He's just laying there?

• 31:01Jeff Larson?

  Laying in bed.

• 31:04Mike Smith?

  Oh no.

• 31:06Jeff Larson?

  But yeah, anyways, John claims the reason she did it is that he told her he was gonna divorce her, right?

• 31:14Mike Smith?

  Right, yeah.

• 31:14Jeff Larson?

  If that's true, huge overreaction, right? Well, let's get into Lorena a little bit. At the time, she was 24 years old, she's from Ecuador, she moved to the US at 18 years old, and met John at a marine ball type of thing where he was like, you know, when Marines are full uniform, and he's already pretty good looking, and he's got the full uniform on, so he was peacotness for him in his whole life.

• 31:42Mike Smith?

  Can't resist a man in uniform.

• 31:44Jeff Larson?

  She falls in love with him at the dance. She says he is super handsome, beautiful eyes, and like, fell in love with him. Well, here's the knife part, Jin Su carving knife that she found.

• 31:57Mike Smith?

  I'm envisioning like a little, like a mini katana kinda thing, just like, little samurai sword, slashing it off.

• 32:07Jeff Larson?

  But yeah, so she, the night of the incident, you know, she went to the kitchen after she was very upset with John, and we're going to get into that, it's very serious. And she goes into the bedroom, pulls down the sheets, cuts the penis off. Then she went to her car and drove away. Now, Mike, in mob movies or mob shows, if someone stabs someone or shoots someone, what do they do with the weapon afterwards?

• 32:35Mike Smith?

  They're usually not super smart about it. They like toss it in their trunk and then just like kind of forget about it sometimes. Or like throw in the garbage can or something.

• 32:44Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 32:45Mike Smith?

  Off the bridge.

• 32:46Jeff Larson?

  A lot of, a lot of shows and stuff teach you get rid of the weapon, right?

• 32:50Mike Smith?

  Yep.

• 32:51Jeff Larson?

  So she's like, all right, I'm going to get rid of this knife. She throws it away in a garbage can. But then she's also driving and she's having a hard time driving because she's still clutching this penis.

• 33:05Mike Smith?

  Oh, she's still holding. Oh, yeah. And she's probably got blood on her hands, so it's hard to hang on to the wheel.

• 33:11Jeff Larson?

  You can only imagine how much harder it'd be to stay at ten and two if you're clutching a penis in your hand.

• 33:17Mike Smith?

  Yeah. That's ever one.

• 33:19Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. Also throws the penis out the window.

• 33:22Mike Smith?

  Okay. Hmm.

• 33:24Jeff Larson?

  Into like a grassy field by a 7-Eleven.

• 33:28Mike Smith?

  Yeah. Not a good place for your penis to be.

• 33:32Jeff Larson?

  No.

• 33:32Mike Smith?

  Some unsavory things happen outside of 7-Eleven.

• 33:35Jeff Larson?

  If your penis ends up in a 7-Eleven parking lot, you know that somewhere your life went wrong.

• 33:42Mike Smith?

  That's the check engine light.

• 33:44Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, that's when you should be like, huh, maybe I made some bad decisions.

• 33:47Mike Smith?

  Although this guy, he doesn't really seem to have like, when does he acknowledge that he no longer has a penis? Cause when you said it took him a while to figure it out, I was like, there's no way it takes more than five seconds.

• 33:57Jeff Larson?

  Maybe he went into shock or something.

• 33:59Mike Smith?

  Yeah, it could be.

• 34:00Jeff Larson?

  He claims, he claims he was just super tired, but then like, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just skip ahead to the trial part of this. His friend, who was the one who brushes his teeth, Robert, was like, yeah, we got pretty drunk that day. So he was just like so drunk, it was like, he couldn't tell what was going on still.

• 34:24Mike Smith?

  Sure, sure.

• 34:26Jeff Larson?

  Which is the, it's still weird, but it's the only thing that makes any sense.

• 34:32Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 34:34Speaker 06

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• 35:19Mike Smith?

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• 36:04Mike Smith?

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• 36:50Jeff Larson?

  So I'm gonna share my screen once more. Okay, so Lorena, right? She's very panicked. She knows she is probably in some trouble. And she goes to her friend's house. It's super, almost like early, it's so late, it's almost like early morning at this point, right? Goes and bangs on the door until the husband comes down. She's like, I need to talk with Jana. Jana comes down, she's like, what's going on Lorena? Like, what's wrong? And I just want to play this clip. So this is Jana.

• 37:22Speaker 04

  Down and she's crying. And then she said, I cut his penis off. And I said, you did what?

• 37:30Jeff Larson?

  That's it.

• 37:34Wes Larson?

  You did what?

• 37:35Jeff Larson?

  You did what?

• 37:38Jeff Larson?

  So that was Jana's perspective of the incident.

• 37:43Jeff Larson?

  So then she gets pulled into the police station. They're like, hey, before we take your statement, before we like hear what's going on with you, where's the penis at? And she's like, it's just in the room. And they're like, no, it's not. And she's like, well, I threw some stuff out the window.

• 38:04Jeff Larson?

  They go on like, they're like, well, what was like your path? And she like has to give them the route that she drove. And then they're on a big search for this penis.

• 38:16Wes Larson?

  You know, these cops like probably worked harder to find out than they've ever worked for anything.

• 38:22Mike Smith?

  So motivated. I envisioned them finding it like the scene in E.T. where they find him down by the weird, it's like feeble and limped down by the riverbank.

• 38:36Jeff Larson?

  So yeah, I did John and Lorena. And now this next section I have bullet points is just labeled the penis. So, police found the penis lying in the grass by the seven eleven. Willard Hurley, which I love this guy. He was like one of the sergeants. He is high up in the police force. He found the penis, but he was a very religious man. So he couldn't touch the penis.

• 39:06Wes Larson?

  Yeah, that's gay.

• 39:09Jeff Larson?

  He had to call someone, Mike Perry, a volunteer firefighter, to come grab it. As he was like standing with his arms stretched out, pointing down at it.

• 39:21Wes Larson?

  Oh, my goodness. So crazy.

• 39:23Mike Smith?

  Just grab the penis.

• 39:25Wes Larson?

  Homophobia was like at a different level.

• 39:27Jeff Larson?

  Some of, some of the cops were like saying that they think he stepped on it is how he found it.

• 39:36Wes Larson?

  Like a banana peel that he is slithin' fall.

• 39:41Jeff Larson?

  So then they bring it into the seven eleven. And what do you do if you have this penis now?

• 39:48Wes Larson?

  Put it on ice.

• 39:49Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. Well, what would you, where would you put the ice?

• 39:52Wes Larson?

  In a slushy cup?

• 39:54Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. Well, they put it in a hot dog bag. What? I mean, it's hot dog shaped.

• 40:01Wes Larson?

  Sure. I guess that kind of makes sense.

• 40:04Jeff Larson?

  And then enters David Berman, who is a micro surgeon. And this was his first ever penis reattachment. He was like very young for a micro surgeon.

• 40:15Wes Larson?

  Must have been a small penis.

• 40:16Jeff Larson?

  Before his thirties. So, and he looked younger than he even was. So like when he'd get interviewed, like one guy was like, you don't even know what a penis is yet, which is kind of a weird thing to say. So his main plan, I mean, he'd never done it before, but he's kind of like, well, I just need to attach the major artery and then the major penis veins and like, it should work. And he does that. And then the real moment of truth was removing the tourniquet and restoring blood flow and just seeing if that blood was going to flow back into this penis that's been disconnected for a few hours now.

• 41:01Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 41:01Jeff Larson?

  And it does.

• 41:02Mike Smith?

  Oh.

• 41:03Jeff Larson?

  So he's able to successfully reattach this penis.

• 41:06Mike Smith?

  Nice.

• 41:07Wes Larson?

  I'm just thinking about all the people I had on my trip in Yellowstone that I told about our podcast. And like, they're all in their like sixties and seventies. And I really, really, really hope they don't listen to this episode.

• 41:21Mike Smith?

  No, this is the best one to start with.

• 41:23Wes Larson?

  Avoid this one.

• 41:27Jeff Larson?

  Now, why'd she cut the buddy's penis off?

• 41:30Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 41:32Wes Larson?

  Yeah. He's not the buddy, first of all.

• 41:35Jeff Larson?

  He's a pretty bad guy, it turns out.

• 41:37Wes Larson?

  He is.

• 41:38Jeff Larson?

  But yeah, so she gets questioned by police. She actually gives a really bad answer. It's too bad she didn't ask for an attorney. She says that the reason she did it was because he is a selfish lover, pretty much. I'm gonna paraphrase some stuff. We don't need to get like, super into it. But comes out later in the trials, like, he was a rapist to her as like, as spouses, like, he just

• 42:07Mike Smith?

  He was sexually assaulting her.

• 42:08Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, sexually assaulting her. Yeah, so I'm trying to like.

• 42:12Mike Smith?

  Be diplomatic, but no, you're doing a good one.

• 42:14Jeff Larson?

  For something that was like a really like, long process. I'm trying to sum it up to not get too gross in this episode.

• 42:22Wes Larson?

  If you want to more info on that, watch the documentary. They do a really good job of painting the picture of what was happening in their house. But yeah, for the purposes of our podcast, like, there was a lot of sexual assault happening and he was being very dominant in, and taking advantage of her background.

• 42:42Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 42:42Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 42:43Jeff Larson?

  And yeah, it's always a really hard scenario for someone who's not a US citizen yet to be able to like, leave an abusive partner. So there's just like, a lot of really components against her. Um, so in the aftermath, Brett and Todd, who were also my college roommates names.

• 43:02Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 43:03Jeff Larson?

  Are her brothers, or I mean, are John's brothers, and they went looking for Lorena the night of it all, saying that they were like going to try to kill her because what she did was worse than kill him. And it's just crazy. This is all just like them on TV, like a like daytime TV interview, just saying like, yeah, we were trying to kill her.

• 43:26Wes Larson?

  Well, again, like I, I was old enough to kind of remember this. I think I was like nine. And I remember every news thing was just about how he was maimed and she did all this to him and how it was like this vengeful wife and this innocent guy. And so I think a lot of the initial news coverage was really kind of compassionate towards John. And so people saying this kind of thing on a talk show, you'd kind of be like, yeah, of course they did. Like she just like cut off his dick for no reason, you know?

• 43:59Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, especially at the start before like the sexual so information really came out. Everyone was on John's side, like this lady's crazy. And like the way I remembered it was just like some crazy lady cut off her husband's penis.

• 44:14Wes Larson?

  Right.

• 44:14Jeff Larson?

  You know?

• 44:15Wes Larson?

  That's how the news reported it for a long time.

• 44:18Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. And like, it's still really hard for women. Like there's the whole, would you rather see a bear or man in the woods conversation that even us, we didn't really get it at first, right? But it's like, women have every right to be like very afraid of men in general. And it makes sense that a lot of women.

• 44:37Wes Larson?

  We're the biggest threat to them, like out of everything. Yeah.

• 44:41Jeff Larson?

  And honestly, it's gotten a lot better since the nineties, but it's still really bad. But like, if you watch like some of the documentaries like Woodstock, women just didn't have a voice that people wanted to listen to about sexual assault in the nineties. And it's at least getting better, even though we still have a long ways to go.

• 45:01Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I think especially.

• 45:02Jeff Larson?

  I'm just saying like this time period was like a shifting point in culture.

• 45:06Wes Larson?

  I think especially within marriages, it was really tricky for people to understand that there's there's still consent. There's still all these different things that have to happen for there to be like appropriate sexual activity. And I think during that time, a lot of people just thought, oh, if you're married, like you have to have sex with your husband. And that's not the case. Like, that's not, no one, no one has to have sex.

• 45:31Jeff Larson?

  Half of the states, it wasn't even illegal to like, there wasn't a law against like marital rape. There's just marital sexual misconduct.

• 45:40Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 45:41Jeff Larson?

  So anyways, yeah, there's just a lot of mistreatment to women in the nineties and women. It became like a real, once it started coming out that she was saying like, no, he was like sexually abusing me all the time. A lot of women started like taking her side, which was like, you know, a lot of guys were like, wait, she cut off his penis and people are like on her side. But then it started to make more and more and more sense why this happened. And Oprah, or not, no, Whoopi Goldberg, there's a clip of her doing stand up where she's just like saying, it wasn't even really stand up when she was doing it though. She was saying

• 46:22Jeff Larson?

  now men have a little bit of what we feel every day when we're around them. We've put a bit of fear into men. I actually think it's a really good point. I think every man after hearing that story was like, that's scary, you know?

• 46:40Wes Larson?

  Right. Yeah.

• 46:41Jeff Larson?

  But anyways, another funny little tidbit from it was newspapers weren't allowed to use the word penis. So there was a bunch of newspapers just using like tallywhacker and different

• 46:58Wes Larson?

  Wait, is there like a governing body that told all newspapers they weren't allowed to use that word?

• 47:05Jeff Larson?

  I don't know.

• 47:06Wes Larson?

  That's crazy to me.

• 47:07Jeff Larson?

  They it was their editors or their whoever said that's a word we can't use. But then New York Times said like wife cuts off husband's penis. And then everyone started using the word penis a bit, which got me thinking. You know how in high school, I don't know if you're you were a bit ahead of us, Wes, but for us especially, I'm sure you had it too, where it's just a joke to yell penis in class and stuff.

• 47:35Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 47:36Jeff Larson?

  So I will say a lot of this stems from that.

• 47:39Wes Larson?

  It's just I remember.

• 47:40Jeff Larson?

  It's such a taboo word for us.

• 47:43Wes Larson?

  I was in Sunday school right after this happened in church. And the teacher was trying to illustrate some lesson about how like the she was using a newspaper for some illustration and she held up a newspaper to like, kind of show us something. And the headline just said penis in it because it was the Lorena Bobbitt headline. And we just lost our minds, like lost our minds. And she just couldn't reel us back in because I was like a nine year old boy. Yeah, it was great.

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• 48:44Wes Larson?

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• 50:12Wes Larson?

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• 50:33Jeff Larson?

  Okay, so let's get into a little bit of the trial. So John was facing up to 20 years for marital sexual assault. And that's where it comes in like he couldn't be charged for rape because of the state laws. So it's marital sexual assault. And for some reason, he could only be judged for the day of the incident and five days prior.

• 50:58Wes Larson?

  Interesting.

• 50:58Jeff Larson?

  So then, like I was saying, in this time period, it was like very against women being able to like come out against sexual assault.

• 51:08Wes Larson?

  Yeah, so it's just really hard. It still is in this time period too, like it's very hard for women to get their.

• 51:15Jeff Larson?

  And I'm not saying it's not, I'm just saying.

• 51:17Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 51:17Jeff Larson?

  It was worse.

• 51:19Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 51:19Jeff Larson?

  And it shifted the culture a lot, this whole thing. So with John, a big part of his thing was that his lawyer said he's incapable of lying. And when you watch him in trial, when he lies, it's like, oh, this dude's lying. Yeah. But that happens more in two months from now when Lorena goes to court. There were some parts of Lorena where it looked like she was assaulting John, like he had had scratch marks on his face and like her mother had said, told the police that she was like being bad to John. So like, there were things that really brought all of the sympathy to

• 52:03Jeff Larson?

  John during his trial. There was a quote that looked really bad for him that he said, "I will find you whether we're divorced or separated and I'll have sex with you whenever I want." So like, there's some really bad stuff. And, uh, but anyways, John ends up getting cleared of the charges. He did, he's found not guilty. And nine of his jurors were actually women and like the whole, everyone in the media, everyone just like living in the world, honestly, because it is covered by the entire world are on John's side right now, right? He goes on like Howard Stern, Howard Stern raised almost $200,000 for him

• 52:43Jeff Larson?

  to pay for his medical expenses and stuff. And then he's just partying, but he also, sorry, before he does that, he goes to a ranch outside of Colorado Springs to stick, try to stay out of the spotlight for a little bit. And this is where he's just like working as a rancher with his brother Brett. And he says that one of the bulls got away, or it's a steer, I think, and he had to wrangle it back into its pen and it kicked him in the penis. No. It's just like the worst pain ever. Good. So there's an animal attack. Yeah.

• 53:18Mike Smith?

  Hey, he brought it. I knew it. I knew you'd bring it all the way around.

• 53:24Jeff Larson?

  All right. It was crazy though, because for like two months, John's just like this innocent guy. But then Lorena's trial comes two months later and hers, because the first one was domestic violence, it couldn't be televised. But then like for whatever reason, they said this one was about like her cutting his penis off. So it could be televised. So Court TV like gets it on TV. She's also facing 20 years. She was offered a deal to take four years and then be let out of jail, but then she'd be labeled as a felon and she wouldn't be able to get American citizenship, which was her dream. So she decides to fight it. And honestly, by the end of the documentaries,

• 54:07Jeff Larson?

  you're completely on her side. But like, it's a huge risk because like she definitely cut his penis off. You know? So it's going to be really hard. But tons of witnesses come in and testify of John's abuse, including like some of John's best friends who like played basketball with them. The neighbors would like come in and say like, yeah, we could tell that what was going on. And now what was really crazy is the prosecutor for when the prosecutor who tried to like find John guilty of marital sexual assault, he was the same prosecutor in Lorena's case. So he defended,

• 54:53Jeff Larson?

  he defended Lorena, or no, sorry, he prosecuted John and then he also prosecuted Lorena. So he is on Lorena's side in the first court hearing. And then he was against her in the second one.

• 55:05Wes Larson?

  There'd be laws against that.

• 55:06Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. Yeah. His name's Paul Ebert. And like, when you hear that, you're like, this guy sucks, right? He was on her side and now he's going against her. But there's a lady who went to the nail salon that Lorena worked at and like saw signs of her abuse and like saw bruises on her arms. And she called into the courthouse, just like trying to talk to whoever she could to tell them like, listen, I like saw it firsthand. Once, once I asked her about it, she said, my husband did it. And then she did like a terrible job on my nails and eyebrows and she like couldn't function anymore because she was so traumatized. So this lady calls in and she actually gets a

• 55:49Jeff Larson?

  hold of Paul, who's the person persecuting Lorena. So like

• 55:55Jeff Larson?

  Prosecuting. So most any time the prosecution would just bury it, right?

• 56:00Mike Smith?

  Right.

• 56:00Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. Paul sends it to the people defending her, sends her over to him. Has, has the psychiatrist who's like determining if Lorena's insane or not? Call this lady to like, get her story. So Paul's actually like playing double agent. And he's like pretending that he's on John's side, but he's actually protecting Lorena.

• 56:24Mike Smith?

  Oh, so he's like, yeah, okay.

• 56:26Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. And he's like all mad that like this lady didn't call in earlier because then he's like, I could have got him had I had this.

• 56:34Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 56:34Jeff Larson?

  So there's all this court coverage and during the hearing of Lorena, Tonya Harding does the whole poll on what's her name's on Nancy Kerrigan. And the Menendez twins are in trial. So it's just like

• 56:51Mike Smith?

  Big moment.

• 56:52Jeff Larson?

  Crazy. Like

• 56:53Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 56:54Jeff Larson?

  Everyone's just entertained.

• 56:56Mike Smith?

  OJ is coming up pretty soon too.

• 56:58Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 56:59Mike Smith?

  Oh, I think OJ happened already, right? I think 94 was OJ. I'm, I, I forget.

• 57:04Jeff Larson?

  I think it is coming up.

• 57:06Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 57:07Jeff Larson?

  So she is found not guilty, but she has to go 45 days in the mental hospital, which honestly, she's still kind of bitter that she had to do any time, anywhere and he didn't. But it's just like the law. If you, if you win an insanity plea, you have to do that, which makes sense, honestly.

• 57:25Mike Smith?

  Yeah. At the end of the day, listen, I don't want to defend or like, I'm gonna take her side. I think at the end of the day, she was going to get a lot worse. But also at the end of the day, she did cut his penis off. So maybe some kind of recompense should be paid a little bit.

• 57:43Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 57:43Mike Smith?

  You think?

• 57:44Jeff Larson?

  I don't know. I don't think.

• 57:44Mike Smith?

  You don't know? His penis was cut off.

• 57:47Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 57:47Mike Smith?

  You don't think there's any kind of punishment that would be justified? I'm saying bury him beneath the prison, throw away the key.

• 57:54Jeff Larson?

  Right.

• 57:54Mike Smith?

  I'm saying don't cut penises off.

• 57:56Jeff Larson?

  So for me, for me, say he did go to prison for 20 years, then sure. Maybe she has to pay like the tiniest price for that.

• 58:05Mike Smith?

  Right.

• 58:06Jeff Larson?

  But he got off scot free.

• 58:07Mike Smith?

  Yes.

• 58:07Jeff Larson?

  So no, I think like that is his punishment. And I think it is, I think he deserved worse, in my opinion.

• 58:14Mike Smith?

  Definitely.

• 58:15Jeff Larson?

  I think by like the letter of the law, they both should have been. Punished, but I kinda like how it played out where neither of them got punished because like he had his penis chopped off and she was able to like, I mean, I wish that she had a better time with it, honestly, because she had everyone just making jokes about it and stuff, but honestly, she kinda laughs about it. When they tell her where they found the penis in the documentary and stuff, so like she even finds some humor in it. And they honestly kind of both set up their rest of their lives off of it too. So to me, it's like you can either, I mean, the other thing that like I was saying,

• 59:01Jeff Larson?

  legally, there's obviously still a ton of abuse towards women nowadays, but like in the nineties, especially the early nineties. Women would call and like say like my spouse is abusing me and there wasn't much at all cops could do about it. Like they needed witnesses, they needed, like there's a lady in the documentary who was like beaten really severely with a tire iron by her husband. And she wasn't able to do anything because there's no witness and it's like, obviously it happened. You know, so a lot of legislation passes after this, but like, I guess my point is if she didn't cut his penis off, he would have never, like she couldn't have just called for help.

• 59:45Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 59:46Jeff Larson?

  So this was kind of her only way out.

• 59:49Wes Larson?

  Sure.

• 59:50Jeff Larson?

  And I, I understand Mike's perspective where he hasn't, sorry, Mike, I just wanted to defend you real quick. Where you haven't seen the documentary and me and Wes have because it paints John much worse than I am right now. So like, I just, yeah, go ahead.

• 1:00:06Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I just, I think, I think in this situation, you should be able to, I think the amount of like psychological, emotional trauma that women in that situation are gonna have to deal with for the rest of their life.

• 1:00:18Mike Smith?

  For sure.

• 1:00:19Wes Larson?

  Like she should be able to cut off all the penises.

• 1:00:21Mike Smith?

  Yeah, and she didn't, like Jeff was saying, she didn't really have another course of action that would have been as effective as that, so.

• 1:00:27Wes Larson?

  There's a weird power dynamic, like he's a marine and she's an immigrant. There's just a lot of things at play. Yeah, so yeah, chop away Lorena.

• 1:00:35Jeff Larson?

  Well, and in 1994, like, I think there was a bunch of attacks that spawned this, but especially Lorena, Lorena attacking her husband, but also all the attacks that happened to her. But a Violence Against Women Act passed by Bill Clinton and Bernie Sanders is on the documentary just saying, we need this bill. And then Newt Gingrich took the funding. Gingrich, Gingrich, takes the funding away from the bill. And then there's a ton of protests and they make them reinsert it. It's just crazy. Nothing changes. You know,

• 1:01:17Jeff Larson?

  it's just the Clintons and Bernie Sanders and Newt.

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• 1:01:51Jeff Larson?

  So I don't know.

• 1:01:54Wes Larson?

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• 1:04:07Jeff Larson?

  But okay, so yeah, a bit of aftermath now. Uh huh. Yeah. So he was hiding out at the ranch. A bull kicked him in the penis. And then he calls his lawyer or whoever and he's like, listen, I think I'm going to leave the ranch. And the guy's like, I think that's a really bad idea. And he's like, well, there's a lookalike, there's a John Wayne Bobbitt lookalike contest at a local Hooters. So I think I can win.

• 1:04:38Jeff Larson?

  So then he starts partying, he like, seems like he just says yes to like every opportunity anyone presents him and everyone wants a piece of him right now, you know? So he started a band called The Sever Parts and it doesn't do well at all. So then if you can't make in a band, you gotta go to porn, right? Yeah, of course Frankenstein penis. So first he goes into a porno called John Wayne Bobbitt Uncut. And it's like one of the highest, like most successful pornos ever. Because everyone wanted to watch it just to see what his penis looked like. I'm kinda curious, honestly.

• 1:05:23Jeff Larson?

  Even like the micro surgeon is like, yeah, I got it just because I wanna see like how my handiwork was looking. That's awesome. And then the porn guy, big shocker, turns out was just taking complete advantage of John. And like, it sold to like record amount and yeah, does huge numbers, but he doesn't make nearly what he should have. And then because it's so successful, he decides to do another porno movie called Frankenpenis. And in this movie, he decides to get a penis enlargement operation.

• 1:06:02Jeff Larson?

  In like, he's going to make his penis bigger in the actual porno movie and he does it. And everyone's like, that seems like a really bad idea, John. Yeah. And only him and like the penis surgeon are like, no, don't worry about it. And turns out it was a really bad idea to do a penis enlargement surgery on a surgically attached penis. So the guy like adds fat in it or whatever, and it just causes him a ton of problems and like severe pain. So he's kinda starting to get his come up into it, right? Yeah, yeah. Then he starts working at the Bunny House. Mike knows what that is. Mike was at Bunny House. No, it's like a, um.

• 1:06:48Jeff Larson?

  Petting zoo? It's like a sex site in Nevada. Oh, I have heard of that, yeah. It was like kind of their way around not being able to advertise because like they couldn't advertise. But then that like TMZ or whoever could say like John Wayne Bobbitt. Now he's working at the bunny house. And so then people would find out what the bunny house was. But while he was working there, he got arrested for stealing a hundred forty thousand dollars worth of clothing. And then returning it to other stores of the same brand. So he's like stealing clothes and then returning it to its store down the street. And turns out that wasn't the best system. So he gets arrested and then the bunny house posted his bail.

• 1:07:32Jeff Larson?

  And when they post his bail, they like have this huge party set up for him. And instead, John takes one of the workers, like one of the girls from the bunny house and goes all the way to Niagara Falls with her. And he's just on the run. So they're pissed because they paid his bail to like get him back and he's just leaves.

• 1:07:50Mike Smith?

  Gone.

• 1:07:51Jeff Larson?

  And then later with this girl, he gets arrested for domestic abuse. And he gets fifteen days in prison. But then when she tells her story is like, no, he almost killed me is like three days of just like all the worst stuff you can imagine a man doing to a woman. And then she's like, I eventually just played dead. And he like would talk to me and I just played dead. So then he thought I was dead and I saw him like getting bed sheets and stuff. And I ran out of the room and was able to get help. But then, like I said, the laws were really bad. She didn't have any proof of like what all had happened. So he didn't get as much punishment as he should have.

• 1:08:33Jeff Larson?

  And then he got married again in Vegas and his second wife, when they got divorced, was able to prove a bunch of abuse and able to take all of his money. So now he's like pretty broke again. Keeps getting taken advantage of of every turn in twenty twenty four. He lost all of his, all ten toes. Apparently because of drinking water, he drank in the eighties at some camp. That was like contaminated.

• 1:09:01Mike Smith?

  I wonder how they can trace that specifically back to that.

• 1:09:05Jeff Larson?

  I think probably other people got it that were at the camp too.

• 1:09:10Jeff Larson?

  And then the, the documentary ends at his house. Of course he has a, he has the custom license plate. And it just says DJ Trump.

• 1:09:20Mike Smith?

  Of course.

• 1:09:23Jeff Larson?

  And it goes to him and he's sending freaking Lorena love letters every single Valentine's Day.

• 1:09:30Mike Smith?

  Weird.

• 1:09:30Jeff Larson?

  So then it goes to Lorena and she's like, I don't know why he's still doing this. I cut his penis off. I obviously don't like him.

• 1:09:40Jeff Larson?

  Like she's awesome. So a little bit of her after it, she went like straight to Disney world. And then she went back to Ecuador for a few years. She met the president of Ecuador. And this was just a Wikipedia sentence. They became the godparents to the same baby at a baptism together, her and the president of Ecuador.

• 1:10:04Mike Smith?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:10:06Mike Smith?

  Good for her.

• 1:10:07Jeff Larson?

  Then she remarried David Gallagher and they had a daughter. And you could just tell like they had such a healthy relationship. So, but it seems like she could have been a very loving partner to anyone who showed her love, you know?

• 1:10:24Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:25Jeff Larson?

  So she's a really good person is my point. She found Lorena's red wagon organization, which helps prevent domestic violence through family oriented activities. So I'm going to donate to that. And then in April, 2009, she went on Oprah Winfrey and said she had no interest in talking to John. But then in May of that same year, they, the show called The Insider just paid him a ton of money each, I think. And they got them both together again. And he apologized to her for the way he treated her during their marriage. And it's like, if you watch the documentary, he's in complete denial still of everything. He's just like, yeah, she didn't like me because I was divorcing her.

• 1:11:08Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:08Jeff Larson?

  And it's very delusional, but at least he was able to say in this, I guess that he messed up. Or like that he's an awful husband.

• 1:11:17Mike Smith?

  Good.

• 1:11:18Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. But how else can I tie this into animals, Wes?

• 1:11:23Wes Larson?

  I don't know.

• 1:11:23Jeff Larson?

  Besides the bull.

• 1:11:25Wes Larson?

  At this point, yeah.

• 1:11:28Jeff Larson?

  Well, the scientists also named something, the bristle worm is also now informally known as the Bobbitt worm after the case because it attacks its prey with scissor like jaws.

• 1:11:44Jeff Larson?

  The Bobbitt worm is a predatory species that gets up to 10 feet long. It's like an ocean worm and has the average diameter of one inch and then it has like razor sharp jaws that can just cut. That's the final story of this.

• 1:12:06Jeff Larson?

  And I just want to say too, if you're in an abusive relationship, please call the national domestic abuse hotline at 800-799-7233. But yeah, I don't know. I just hope, I, I think it's good to like, help clear Lorena's name, you know? I think a lot of people like me were super young when all of this happened. And all we know is the story of a like angry wife cut off a husband's penis. And turns out he totally deserved to get his penis cut off.

• 1:12:42Wes Larson?

  Yeah, sure. I think we also learned an important lesson about how ADD works on this episode, where I sent Jeff a prompt about Pacu fish and it turned into an hour long episode about Lorena Bobbitt.

• 1:12:56Mike Smith?

  Anyone could have seen that coming.

• 1:12:58Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:59Jeff Larson?

  But yeah, I, I don't know. I, I thought it was a good story.

• 1:13:04Mike Smith?

  Sure. Yeah. They made a whole documentary out of it. Must have been pretty good.

• 1:13:11Jeff Larson?

  Alright, so do you guys have any questions?

• 1:13:13Wes Larson?

  No, I think I'm good.

• 1:13:16Mike Smith?

  Nope.

• 1:13:16Jeff Larson?

  I got a lot more info.

• 1:13:18Wes Larson?

  No, I think we're alright. Let's move on to our categories.

• 1:13:21Mike Smith?

  Do it.

• 1:13:23Jeff Larson?

  Alright, Wes, you have a good time?

• 1:13:25Wes Larson?

  Uh, I, it was an unexpected time. It's not what I was expecting out of this episode. Yeah.

• 1:13:31Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:32Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:33Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:34Wes Larson?

  Alright, you know what? Next time, I think I'll just, I think I'll just do my job.

• 1:13:40Mike Smith?

  Learn your lesson.

• 1:13:40Jeff Larson?

  I think people are gonna like it. Alright, categories. So, first category. Alright, so you know like the over/under game?

• 1:13:50Wes Larson?

  Uh huh.

• 1:13:51Jeff Larson?

  This time, we're gonna do it with Mike. Mike, how many pop culture injuries can you name in thirty seconds is the game? And Wes, what do you think the number is?

• 1:14:02Mike Smith?

  Pop culture injuries?

• 1:14:05Jeff Larson?

  Or sorry, pop culture penis or ball injuries. Like, not, we're like, yeah, groin injuries.

• 1:14:12Wes Larson?

  In under, in thirty seconds?

• 1:14:15Jeff Larson?

  Like, I'll give you a freebie. Like, the Simpsons football to the groin would be one.

• 1:14:21Mike Smith?

  Oh, I'm not.

• 1:14:22Wes Larson?

  I'll say, I'll say four in thirty seconds.

• 1:14:26Jeff Larson?

  I'll, I'll take the over.

• 1:14:28Wes Larson?

  Alright, I got a timer.

• 1:14:30Jeff Larson?

  Alright, and then, if I lose, I'll donate an extra hundred to that domestic charity.

• 1:14:36Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 1:14:37Jeff Larson?

  You want to change your number?

• 1:14:39Wes Larson?

  No.

• 1:14:39Jeff Larson?

  Four is low.

• 1:14:40Wes Larson?

  Alright, in thirty seconds.

• 1:14:42Jeff Larson?

  Set, go.

• 1:14:44Mike Smith?

  We've got Chris Paul, uh, hitting any number of other opposing players in the ball, starting at Wake Forest back in his college days. We have Carlos Boozer punching the referee in the nuts. Football to the groin, Lorraine Bobbitt. I don't know if we're gonna count those.

• 1:14:58Wes Larson?

  You can't do football, you can't do any of that we've mentioned.

• 1:15:00Jeff Larson?

  I said I was giving it to him.

• 1:15:02Wes Larson?

  Oh.

• 1:15:02Jeff Larson?

  Keep going, keep going.

• 1:15:04Mike Smith?

  Lou Dort grabbed another basketball player's balls. I'm just doing basketball stuff. This is maybe not fair. Uh, what a, the guy in, um, that one, oh shoot, what's his name? He falls on his, a branch on his groin. No.

• 1:15:18Jeff Larson?

  Exactly. That was bad.

• 1:15:20Mike Smith?

  I tried to explain him a little bit too much.

• 1:15:24Wes Larson?

  That was a lot.

• 1:15:25Jeff Larson?

  Not efficient at all.

• 1:15:27Wes Larson?

  I didn't know sports counted, but yeah, it should. That is pop culture. No, it's okay.

• 1:15:32Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, we got in like a Wes got in an argument during the counting.

• 1:15:36Mike Smith?

  Derailed it.

• 1:15:39Mike Smith?

  I wasn't gonna be able to go anymore, but whatever.

• 1:15:42Jeff Larson?

  All right. Shout out a nineties daytime TV moment. So what me and Mike, we were both when the nineties ended, what we were eleven?

• 1:15:54Mike Smith?

  Twelve. Yeah. Eleven, twelve.

• 1:15:56Jeff Larson?

  And Wes was like, like fifteen or sixteen?

• 1:15:59Wes Larson?

  I was seven, uh.

• 1:16:01Jeff Larson?

  So you were raised more in the nineties than us.

• 1:16:05Wes Larson?

  The nineties was like my adolescence.

• 1:16:07Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:08Wes Larson?

  Uh, one that I remember very clearly is the episode of Fresh Prince of Bel-Air where, where Doc, where his uncle talks about his dad leaving him. And it's like this really kind of emotional moment between Will and his uncle, Uncle Phil.

• 1:16:23Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:23Wes Larson?

  And I think for me, it was poignant because it's like, it was a very funny show and they always kind of had this, uh, like conflictual relationship, him and his uncle, like they kind of were always at each other's throats. But then they have this really emotional moment where you see how much they love each other. And I just thought it was, for me, it made me realize like, oh, like men can show their emotions too.

• 1:16:48Jeff Larson?

  Nice.

• 1:16:49Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:50Mike Smith?

  I did a real one. Um, this is just a nineties daytime TV moment.

• 1:16:55Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:55Mike Smith?

  Um, one that always sticks out in my brain is Michael Jackson dangling his baby over the balcony. That was like a really, really huge thing. For some reason, like, I'm sure there were bigger stories that happened in and around that time, but that was one that was just a really big focus of attention for everyone at my school. So, um, yeah, it was weird how he like came out, put his baby over and like laughed about it and then went back in. Then he like came out and people were screaming in terror, but also like celebrating him. It was a weird, really weird footage. If you go back and watch it.

• 1:17:28Wes Larson?

  It was kind of around when public opinion was turning apart, like against him too.

• 1:17:33Mike Smith?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:17:34Jeff Larson?

  I think I'm gonna zag. I didn't think it was that big of a deal.

• 1:17:38Mike Smith?

  No, I will. Yeah.

• 1:17:40Wes Larson?

  Yeah, in today's news cycle, like wouldn't even make the headlines, probably.

• 1:17:44Mike Smith?

  I'm just shouting at a moment. I'm not saying this is the craziest.

• 1:17:48Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:48Jeff Larson?

  Oh, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying the public opinion.

• 1:17:52Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:53Jeff Larson?

  To me, it's like if you're holding a baby, you don't just like drop them accidentally normally.

• 1:17:59Mike Smith?

  Normally.

• 1:18:00Jeff Larson?

  Like he has the baby pretty well grabbed.

• 1:18:03Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Yeah, it's like some poor judgment, but yeah.

• 1:18:07Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. But like people act like he almost killed a baby and I don't really see it that way.

• 1:18:13Wes Larson?

  No, not even.

• 1:18:14Jeff Larson?

  I mean, the classic for me was just, I didn't even watch it that much because it's almost, it's a little too gross for me, but like just the Jerry Springer showing you how different people's lives are from you and the whole, are you the father or not the father was just so bizarre to me. I just couldn't believe it. But yeah, I think I'll go with Zach from Saved by the Bell when he narcs on the guy for uh doing drugs.

• 1:18:45Wes Larson?

  Oh, yeah. There were some crazy Saved by the Bell episodes.

• 1:18:48Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:49Wes Larson?

  The I'm so excited, I'm so excited, I'm so scared moment. You guys remember that?

• 1:18:54Jeff Larson?

  Hmm.

• 1:18:55Wes Larson?

  Okay, that was another drug episode, like caffeine pills.

• 1:19:00Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:01Jeff Larson?

  Oh. All right. Your most shocking breaking news you remember from the nineties?

• 1:19:06Mike Smith?

  Uh, for me, it was Kurt Cobain dying. We were, we were living up just north of Seattle at the time. So it was even when at my very young, I think I was like five when it happened, but it was all anyone was talking about. And for that to be like all pervasive into even like kindergarten, school kid conversations. It was the first time I was kind of confronted with the reality and the gritting, grittiness of life and death and stuff. It was, it was a pretty intense little stretch of time there for us.

• 1:19:37Wes Larson?

  For me, it was the OJ Simpson Bronco chase. I, I still remember like the class I was in when that happened and oh no, you know, I remember when they found him not guilty, but I, but the Bronco. Chace was just crazy.

• 1:19:51Jeff Larson?

  I have Bill Clinton sex scandal break Monica Lewinsky.

• 1:19:56Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:56Jeff Larson?

  Cause I was I was like 11, so I was kind of barely could comprehend what it even meant.

• 1:20:04Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:04Jeff Larson?

  But I was getting there. So it's kind of like how I learned.

• 1:20:07Mike Smith?

  So wait, she put her mouth on it?

• 1:20:10Wes Larson?

  Yeah. That's another one where honestly, the news did such a bad job of painting like the portrait of her. Yeah, there's a podcast I really like called um, Slow Burn. And they did a whole season on the Monica Lewinsky scandal and you get a really good feel for just how kind of abusive that relationship was too. And the weird power dynamic and stuff. So, yeah.

• 1:20:34Jeff Larson?

  Okay, and then uh, most shocking breaking new or no, that's the one I just.

• 1:20:40Jeff Larson?

  I want just a memorable penis from a movie or TV show.

• 1:20:48Wes Larson?

  I.

• 1:20:48Mike Smith?

  How can I decide?

• 1:20:49Wes Larson?

  My mind goes to Eastern Promises. Uh, there's the whole scene with Viggo Mortensen where he's fighting like Russian gangsters in a bath house.

• 1:20:58Mike Smith?

  The bath, yeah.

• 1:20:59Wes Larson?

  And his dick is just swinging the whole time. So that's just when I, when I hear like penis scenes in movies, that's where my mind goes.

• 1:21:06Mike Smith?

  I kind of think it was a bad decision because when I watched that movie, that scene, I, the only thing I can look at is his penis.

• 1:21:14Wes Larson?

  That's all I remember from that movie.

• 1:21:16Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:16Wes Larson?

  That's truly it. I remember he has tattoos.

• 1:21:19Mike Smith?

  Right.

• 1:21:19Wes Larson?

  And that his penis is swinging around in that bathhouse scene.

• 1:21:22Mike Smith?

  Yeah. Like it could be like Jackie Chan level of choreography fight scenes and I'd just be like locked in on the penis. It's like, why even bother, you know?

• 1:21:30Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:32Jeff Larson?

  Growing up like conservative religion or religious family, right? We didn't watch R rated movies, so I never really saw a penis in anything. Until in college, I'm watching the movie, movie Amadeus.

• 1:21:47Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:48Jeff Larson?

  The Mozart movie and it's just like, no reason for a penis to be in that movie. And I was just shocked. I was like, I didn't even know they could put penises in movies.

• 1:22:03Mike Smith?

  That's great. Great movie. I love that.

• 1:22:05Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:06Mike Smith?

  The one I think about a lot, actually, is in Ingmar Bergman's movie Persona, the old 1960s movie. And at the very beginning, there's a prologue where it's doing like subliminal imaging, kinda like that scene in Fight Club, where he splices in a couple of frames of like sexual content into the movie film reel. And at the very beginning of Persona, there's like a frame or two that just flashes so quick. And I wasn't all the way locked into the movie just like quite yet, because it was just starting. And I didn't wanna go back. I didn't wanna like rewind, cuz I was like, let's get into this movie, let's get going. But for the next 15 minutes, I was like, I'm pretty sure I saw a penis. I need to go back and make sure.

• 1:22:49Mike Smith?

  So like a half hour into it, I went all the way back to the beginning just to make sure. And yeah, it's, there's a penis there, just for

• 1:22:55Jeff Larson?

  Dude, you're good at spotting them. Yeah, LeBron. You gotta rely for him. Oh yeah, LeBron's.

• 1:23:03Jeff Larson?

  Alright, and then next category is a person where karma eventually caught up to them. You guys are gonna hate my answer for this one.

• 1:23:11Wes Larson?

  I thought of the warden from Shawshank Redemption, cuz that one's always like really satisfying to me. Where he, and spoilers if you haven't seen this movie, where he like has the one guy killed that could get Andy Dufresne like off, just because he wants him to keep cooking his books for him and stuff. And then when Andy gets out, he just completely screws him over and, and the police show up and he kills himself. So I, yeah, that one was always really satisfying to me.

• 1:23:40Mike Smith?

  Yeah. I hate that guy.

• 1:23:42Wes Larson?

  Yeah, me too.

• 1:23:43Mike Smith?

  Obtuus, as Andy calls him.

• 1:23:47Mike Smith?

  I'm gonna go with, so this is another real life one. So, do you remember a couple of years ago, there was a 101 year old former SS guard that facilitated like some of the concentration camp goings on? And they wheeled him out in his wheelchair and he was like holding the binder up in front of his face cuz he didn't want anyone to see him. But he was 101 years old and they gave him like 10 years in prison. And it was just like, you know? Know what? It better late than never, I guess. Ideally, it would have happened seventy years ago, but like at least. He's, you know, still alive to acknowledge and get, get kind of owned for what he did.

• 1:24:23Wes Larson?

  Yeah, cuz it always, it feels so terrible when those people die and then they find out and it's like, oh, he just got to live his whole life in anonymity anonymity. So yeah, I'm glad they caught that guy.

• 1:24:35Jeff Larson?

  Mine is, I came up with the question, it wasn't like I wanted to just shout this answer out, but then. The more I thought about it, the more I think it works. I'm going with Steve Irwin.

• 1:24:47Wes Larson?

  Whoa. I do kinda hate that.

• 1:24:50Mike Smith?

  Honestly, though.

• 1:24:51Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, but then like he was picking up deadly animals all the time and like messing with crocodiles, messing with. Wild animals that can kill them all the time. So like, it is karma. As Norm would say, a fruity fish got him.

• 1:25:07Mike Smith?

  Fruity fish got him.

• 1:25:08Jeff Larson?

  Is that karma though?

• 1:25:10Mike Smith?

  Life a little bit.

• 1:25:10Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:11Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 1:25:12Jeff Larson?

  Like I, I think there's a lot of defense to what he was doing, but I still don't think there's any defense that he was like. At least at a minimum bothering wildlife.

• 1:25:24Wes Larson?

  For sure.

• 1:25:24Jeff Larson?

  That was dangerous.

• 1:25:26Wes Larson?

  Yeah, yeah, okay.

• 1:25:31Wes Larson?

  Yeah, that's a hard one for me, but I, I will say my, my view of Steve Irwin has changed a bit. Like I, I still, he was still like a huge hero of mine and I think he inspired so much good for wildlife that the. Bad that he did outweighs the good, but I, I kind of, you always wish that person could just exist in a vacuum. Where like they got to do it and they could pass that message, but now there's so many clones of him doing it. That I wish weren't, you know, like out there harassing wildlife. So, yeah, so he definitely did do some harm too.

• 1:26:06Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, and I don't think karma necessarily, it's, or I should just say like, I don't think he was at all a bad person.

• 1:26:14Wes Larson?

  Right.

• 1:26:15Jeff Larson?

  But I do think it's still karma.

• 1:26:17Wes Larson?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:26:18Mike Smith?

  Sure. Yeah.

• 1:26:19Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. Should we go to listener questions?

• 1:26:24Wes Larson?

  Yeah, let's do it. Let's go.

• 1:26:26Jeff Larson?

  Alright, so I did nineties themed and we got some fun ones. Wes, this is your friend, does nails, longtime listener, Gotti Octopus.

• 1:26:35Wes Larson?

  Val.

• 1:26:36Jeff Larson?

  Our, I should say our friend.

• 1:26:38Wes Larson?

  Our friend. Yeah, you know Val pretty well.

• 1:26:40Jeff Larson?

  Okay, so you can only keep one of these nineties animal movies, Homeward Bound, Free Willy or Air Bud?

• 1:26:49Wes Larson?

  I'm keeping Free Willy.

• 1:26:51Jeff Larson?

  I think I'm keeping actually my least favorite one of them now, but Homeward Bound, just because I got a lot of use out of that as a kid and just absolutely loved it.

• 1:27:02Wes Larson?

  True. Which movie do you think involved the least amount of animal cruelty? I don't know. I, I mean, I.

• 1:27:11Jeff Larson?

  Probably Air Bud because it's just a dog doing tricks.

• 1:27:13Wes Larson?

  Yeah, that dog probably loved its job. Yeah, probably.

• 1:27:17Mike Smith?

  I've always wondered in Homeward Bound, is it the first one? In one of the movies, I forget who, Shadow, I think gets the porcupine needles in his face. And that just looks so real that it's like that probably they just actually let that happen to that dog. It's so sad.

• 1:27:34Jeff Larson?

  I'll change my answer to Air Bud. You just talked me out of it.

• 1:27:39Jeff Larson?

  Or Free Willy. I guess Free Willy was really good for orcas.

• 1:27:43Wes Larson?

  Yeah, it's good for orcas. I wonder about the one they used in the movie, though. I don't know what happened to that orca.

• 1:27:48Jeff Larson?

  Sometimes, you know, that orca sacrificed itself for the good of all orcas.

• 1:27:53Wes Larson?

  Fair enough.

• 1:27:54Mike Smith?

  I'd heard they released it and it just wasn't able to re-assimilate back into like normal orca life, but that's just hearsay. I have no idea.

• 1:28:01Wes Larson?

  I think that's pretty typical for most.

• 1:28:03Jeff Larson?

  Well, that's on it. That's its fault.

• 1:28:07Mike Smith?

  After being in like a tank that could barely fit.

• 1:28:10Wes Larson?

  Be normal.

• 1:28:11Jeff Larson?

  If we put you back in the ocean, it's up to you now.

• 1:28:16Jeff Larson?

  They're supposed to be smart, aren't they?

• 1:28:19Mike Smith?

  Couldn't figure out how to put on a hat.

• 1:28:21Jeff Larson?

  Alright.

• 1:28:21Mike Smith?

  Like the rest of the workers.

• 1:28:23Jeff Larson?

  Gons artist asked favorite 90s toy.

• 1:28:27Wes Larson?

  Another friend of ours, they, she did the, um, the art for the Treadwell episodes. Uh, favorite 90s toy?

• 1:28:34Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:35Mike Smith?

  Bop it.

• 1:28:36Wes Larson?

  Mine was my creepy crawlers oven.

• 1:28:39Mike Smith?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:28:40Wes Larson?

  Little plastic bugs.

• 1:28:41Mike Smith?

  That's way better than, I actually don't like Bop It at all. It's the only one I can think of.

• 1:28:44Wes Larson?

  Got super heated and had like weird chemicals for kids to play with.

• 1:28:48Mike Smith?

  So cool. My friend brought one into school for show and tell and made everyone little treats and it was just like abhorrent and there was like a pink fog that gathered on the ceiling and stuff.

• 1:28:59Wes Larson?

  Like I couldn't go in my room for hours after I ran that little oven. Yeah.

• 1:29:03Mike Smith?

  It's great.

• 1:29:05Jeff Larson?

  Those ovens are so funny.

• 1:29:08Jeff Larson?

  I'm probably gonna go with Beanie Babies.

• 1:29:10Wes Larson?

  You love Beanie Babies.

• 1:29:11Jeff Larson?

  Man, Millennium, when I got my hands on that, I thought I had it made for life.

• 1:29:16Mike Smith?

  Yeah, your retirement plan was.

• 1:29:18Wes Larson?

  When I think of 90s toys and you, I think, I do think of Beanie Babies. So I think that's a good answer. Yeah.

• 1:29:24Jeff Larson?

  Okay, Etta Grub wants to know if Wes ever had sex with that robin?

• 1:29:29Wes Larson?

  Uh, no, I did not.

• 1:29:31Jeff Larson?

  It's not chirping.

• 1:29:32Mike Smith?

  Yeah, it's gone.

• 1:29:33Wes Larson?

  It's not chirping, but I didn't.

• 1:29:35Jeff Larson?

  I don't think you would tell us if you had.

• 1:29:37Wes Larson?

  I, when I left for Yellowstone, it was still chirping. When I came back, it was not. So hopefully it found a mate and it's happy. But I'm glad to have it gone.

• 1:29:46Jeff Larson?

  Jessica had fair, wants Jessica's fairs. I don't know. Uh, if you could bring one piece of fashion back from the 90s, what would it be?

• 1:29:58Wes Larson?

  I think for me, just like really bright neon clothes. I just really liked all the neon and.

• 1:30:04Mike Smith?

  That's more of like an 80s thing though, right?

• 1:30:06Jeff Larson?

  That's kind of was my first thought too.

• 1:30:09Wes Larson?

  No, when, there was like a lot of like pink and yellow and.

• 1:30:13Mike Smith?

  Definitely more than there is now, for sure.

• 1:30:15Wes Larson?

  In the, in the early 90s. Uh, you know, okay, a backup then would be silk shirts. Silk shirts really had a moment in the 90s. And boy, did they feel good. So I'll say silk shirts.

• 1:30:27Jeff Larson?

  I'll go Jinko jeans.

• 1:30:30Mike Smith?

  The Jinkos.

• 1:30:30Wes Larson?

  Those are kind of bad.

• 1:30:31Jeff Larson?

  Want them for me, but like seeing someone with just the hugest jeans was so like, I loved it.

• 1:30:40Wes Larson?

  Kids are wearing those again.

• 1:30:41Mike Smith?

  They're kind of coming back. Yeah.

• 1:30:42Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:43Mike Smith?

  I like the wallet chains. Those are kind of making a little bit of a comeback, but those were like, if I saw someone with a wallet chain, I was like, that dude is sick. That guy has to be the coolest. I never, I'm gonna get one. I'm gonna order one right after we finish recording.

• 1:30:59Wes Larson?

  I liked grunge fashion too. Jeff kind of has a grunge look going on right now, like a bandana and his hair and yeah.

• 1:31:05Mike Smith?

  Great look.

• 1:31:05Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:06Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. Should throw on a flannel, be in the sweatshirt group with you guys. Not a sweatshirt, but bundle. Uh, Back J Reed wants to know thoughts on Fred Durst.

• 1:31:18Wes Larson?

  Oh, complicated.

• 1:31:22Mike Smith?

  I don't want to say anything definitive because he seems like the kind of guy that might have skeletons in his closet that I just don't really know about. But I will say that in the year 2025, still kind of in the public discourse in as far as like rock music community is concerned, and I have the utmost respect for anyone that outlived the nu metal phase and can still kind of pull his weight socially. It's like kind of amazing that we all know his name and what he looked like and who his partners were and all that stuff. It's, it's pretty crazy.

• 1:31:57Wes Larson?

  Yeah. For me, nu metal isn't good music, but sometimes it just like scratches the right itch for me. And especially like at the gym or whatever, sometimes I'll, I'll re-listen to some nu metal favorites. Fred Durst specifically always seemed like a really bad person to me, but, but he kind of led that movement and who knows? I, that was kind of his like persona. So I don't know if he actually is, or if that's just kind of what he was just trying to be like a bad boy, you know?

• 1:32:25Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:26Wes Larson?

  So I think again, growing up conservatively, he was like too much for me, but I still listened to, to Limp Bizkit.

• 1:32:34Jeff Larson?

  To me.

• 1:32:35Wes Larson?

  Their first album is so good.

• 1:32:36Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, like the soul patch and like backwards hat and stuff like he was always like kind of cringy. But it always felt like genuine enough that it didn't bother me. I think.

• 1:32:48Wes Larson?

  Yeah, no, I think he was being very true to himself.

• 1:32:51Jeff Larson?

  Uh, also, if you watch a documentary called Woodstock 99, he's like such a crazy character in it because it's just like, obviously, things are going off the rails like it's badly organized. People are getting hurt. And then like they're trying to just settle everyone down and he just like turns the volume all the he's just like, let's just get this thing is like. Yeah. Crazy as possible. Plays the song, breaks stuff and like everyone just like destroys everything.

• 1:33:25Wes Larson?

  They told him to bring it down and he was just like, no, and honestly, that's fair. Like you don't put Limp Bizkit on at that point. If you want them to like turn down the volume like I get it, you know, the organizers were to blame for that.

• 1:33:40Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. Okay. Frosty Tube asks, favorite television commercials from the nineties because commercials were often big, bright color for well geared towards young people, especially in that time, like soda and fast food or whatever.

• 1:33:56Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:57Jeff Larson?

  I I'll start us off. I love Capri Sun commercials made me really.

• 1:34:04Wes Larson?

  Capri Sun.

• 1:34:05Jeff Larson?

  Where it's just like following the stream of liquid and all the kids were just like surfing and doing whatever. It's just.

• 1:34:12Wes Larson?

  It seemed like crazy technology. Yeah.

• 1:34:14Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, it's like the the got the Terminator and Terminator two, but it's a Capri Sun juice flying.

• 1:34:22Wes Larson?

  Yeah, that's so cool. I'm gonna, I'm gonna pick a weird one for me. But there was a Marines commercial in the nineties where it's like a knight that is

• 1:34:32Jeff Larson?

  Dude, I remember that one.

• 1:34:34Wes Larson?

  Or something and then at the very end, he turns into a Marine and it was like peak military propaganda, I think, because it really made Marines seem like the coolest.

• 1:34:44Jeff Larson?

  That's why Mike's brothers joined up.

• 1:34:46Mike Smith?

  Both my brothers. You get dragons? Uh, I'm gonna go with the Budweiser what's up commercials, probably the most annoying in retrospect, how many people copied that and did it for decades and continue to do

• 1:34:59Wes Larson?

  Me and Jeff still do it to this day.

• 1:35:01Mike Smith?

  It's insane, uh, but it was, it was a phenomenon for, for weeks after the Superbowl. I think it was the Superbowl, I forget who it was, the Packers were playing, I think.

• 1:35:11Wes Larson?

  Um, yeah.

• 1:35:11Mike Smith?

  But just everybody was doing it to each, I was doing it to my dad and he would do it back to me and that's like not a thing that my dad would do, you know?

• 1:35:20Wes Larson?

  It was the golden age, the golden age of Superbowl commercials, because now they just like throw in celebrities and think that's enough.

• 1:35:27Mike Smith?

  Right.

• 1:35:28Wes Larson?

  But yeah, back then, some great commercials.

• 1:35:30Jeff Larson?

  Watching, having been watching, uh, Wimbledon or, uh, French Open.

• 1:35:36Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:36Jeff Larson?

  Matt Damon's in like these commercials where it's just like talking like he thinks pickleballs is about the food pickles.

• 1:35:44Wes Larson?

  It's so stupid.

• 1:35:45Jeff Larson?

  And it's just like, I don't like you as much anymore.

• 1:35:48Wes Larson?

  Right.

• 1:35:49Jeff Larson?

  Like you're an A-list celebrity that I don't want to watch as much anymore. Or like Will Ferrell and like the PayPal commercials.

• 1:35:56Wes Larson?

  So bad.

• 1:35:57Jeff Larson?

  I think you're less funny now, you're ruining your entire reputation by a little paycheck.

• 1:36:03Wes Larson?

  Well, they do it in movies now too, where they just throw in someone that you're like, ooh, I know that person and you, they think that's enough to like make their movie good. It's not.

• 1:36:11Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:12Wes Larson?

  It's not. We're better than that.

• 1:36:13Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, commercials, we're better than that.

• 1:36:16Wes Larson?

  All right. Should we give her a claw rating?

• 1:36:19Jeff Larson?

  Think I had subscriber ones, but.

• 1:36:22Mike Smith?

  I'm giving, what's her name?

• 1:36:23Wes Larson?

  Lorraine Bobbitt.

• 1:36:24Mike Smith?

  I'll give her, I'll give her a pretty easy 10 claw.

• 1:36:28Wes Larson?

  Sure.

• 1:36:29Mike Smith?

  I'm all the way on her side.

• 1:36:31Jeff Larson?

  What about ouchies?

• 1:36:32Wes Larson?

  Uh, ouchies, that's a pretty big ouchie.

• 1:36:35Jeff Larson?

  I mean, he didn't get out of bed.

• 1:36:38Wes Larson?

  Yeah, that's true. The bull is almost worse.

• 1:36:41Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, to me, the Franken penis is where you got it the worst.

• 1:36:46Wes Larson?

  So I'll give it six ouchies, but I'm gonna give Lorena nine claws as well.

• 1:36:51Jeff Larson?

  I would say if that.

• 1:36:53Wes Larson?

  Or you did ten. I'll do ten.

• 1:36:54Mike Smith?

  I got I gave her a ten.

• 1:36:56Jeff Larson?

  I will say, I think the dude that fish, the.

• 1:37:00Wes Larson?

  Pacu fish.

• 1:37:02Jeff Larson?

  No, can you?

• 1:37:03Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:03Jeff Larson?

  Can you?

• 1:37:04Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:05Jeff Larson?

  I'll give that a ten.

• 1:37:06Wes Larson?

  Yeah, that was.

• 1:37:07Jeff Larson?

  Swimming up there and putting its barbs into you and you can't get it out.

• 1:37:11Mike Smith?

  That's a good fish.

• 1:37:12Jeff Larson?

  I want to do one subscription question, too.

• 1:37:15Wes Larson?

  Great, great.

• 1:37:16Jeff Larson?

  We should get our subscribers on here. Okay, so this is from Brittany. Hey, guys, so I just watched the movie sixty five and it got me thinking, do you think it's possible? We have already been visited by aliens back when dinos roamed the earth? And possibly around the same time, earth was being destroyed by asteroids? And they just looked at our planet like a total uninhabitable place, not worth their time.

• 1:37:39Mike Smith?

  The way you're reading this makes it hard to.

• 1:37:41Wes Larson?

  It's possible, I guess. Yeah.

• 1:37:44Mike Smith?

  I didn't really follow that well.

• 1:37:45Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:46Mike Smith?

  But.

• 1:37:46Wes Larson?

  Mike, we saw that movie together, didn't we?

• 1:37:48Mike Smith?

  Sixty five or whatever.

• 1:37:49Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:50Mike Smith?

  Forty five, seventy five.

• 1:37:50Wes Larson?

  With Adam Driver.

• 1:37:51Mike Smith?

  Yeah. That's a crazy.

• 1:37:53Jeff Larson?

  There was always like crocodiles and sharks and stuff, right?

• 1:37:57Wes Larson?

  Yeah, the thing that really bothered me about that movie, and I still remember it to this day, is that they've like created fake dinosaurs for it, like dinosaurs that didn't exist in the paleontological record.

• 1:38:08Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:09Wes Larson?

  And I remember thinking, like, do they not like have the rights to dinosaurs? Like, why didn't we just use dinosaurs? Like, why do we have to use these weird?

• 1:38:17Jeff Larson?

  So many options for dinosaurs.

• 1:38:19Wes Larson?

  Like, why did we use these weird, bizarre ones? So.

• 1:38:23Mike Smith?

  There's a lack of dino action in that movie that I found baffling.

• 1:38:27Jeff Larson?

  Our world to have rights to dinosaurs.

• 1:38:30Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:38:33Jeff Larson?

  Uh, I don't think so. I don't think me and Mike talked about this a little bit. I think the only way aliens could get here is if they're robots. I don't think.

• 1:38:43Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:43Jeff Larson?

  Think of physical. Beings can.

• 1:38:47Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I just, I feel like in a, in a limitless universe, surely there's beings out there that have invented a way to do that. But the thing that I don't think is that they would come here just to like observe or likes like, I think if they came here, they would destroy us. So I don't think they visited us yet.

• 1:39:05Mike Smith?

  Right.

• 1:39:06Wes Larson?

  But that's what the three body.

• 1:39:07Jeff Larson?

  We would destroy them.

• 1:39:09Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I, that's the whole dark forest thing in.

• 1:39:12Jeff Larson?

  Maybe they're like.

• 1:39:13Wes Larson?

  Read those books. They're great.

• 1:39:15Jeff Larson?

  Waiting for us to be able to make peace so that they can bring us in the full, do you know?

• 1:39:21Wes Larson?

  Yeah, could be.

• 1:39:22Jeff Larson?

  Uh, also Regina was asking if you think horses and zebras switch places like zebras are horses now? And horses are zebras would, would it, how similar would everything be like, would we still? Have like all the zebra lore that we have around horses. Mike, do you think you would still hate? Horses if horses were just like zebras and zebras were like horses?

• 1:39:47Mike Smith?

  Zebras, I mean, they're like, they're just horses with a barcode, right? It's like they're the same.

• 1:39:53Wes Larson?

  But you liked seeing zebras in the wild.

• 1:39:55Mike Smith?

  Zebras are so much cooler than horses out there. Not being subservient to humans just for a little handful of alfalfa or whatever horses eat.

• 1:40:04Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I wonder, cause I've just heard zebras are so mean, like people that have worked with zebras just say they're the meanest animals.

• 1:40:11Jeff Larson?

  So are wild horses, right?

• 1:40:13Wes Larson?

  I don't know. I think it's different though. I think zebras are even worse, but who knows? I don't know. I honestly don't know this one.

• 1:40:19Jeff Larson?

  Pissed. They're not quite as big, right? So they probably get mad at us riding them all the time.

• 1:40:24Wes Larson?

  I personally like, I'm glad we, I think horses are more beautiful than zebras because we have so many varieties of horses. And zebras all essentially look the same to me. So I'm glad.

• 1:40:34Jeff Larson?

  Bits of like how good your horse is would be so boring with zebras.

• 1:40:39Mike Smith?

  True.

• 1:40:39Wes Larson?

  So.

• 1:40:40Mike Smith?

  I give horses a zero claw. Zebras get a eight.

• 1:40:44Wes Larson?

  Alright.

• 1:40:44Jeff Larson?

  Alright, well, we'll see, we'll see how people react to this one. Not really a typical.

• 1:40:52Mike Smith?

  We'll closely monitor the metrics.

• 1:40:53Wes Larson?

  It's fine.

• 1:40:54Jeff Larson?

  This is your first episode.

• 1:40:55Wes Larson?

  I was giving you a hard time, but it, you know, that's you, that's the special sauce that you bring to this podcast.

• 1:41:02Jeff Larson?

  A lot of times it's more animal focused. Sometimes it's not as animal focused.

• 1:41:09Wes Larson?

  Yeah. You know, we've released hundreds of episodes. There's, there's gonna be some that go a little different direction and that's totally fine.

• 1:41:16Jeff Larson?

  There's the Bobbitt. There's the Bobbitt. How else am I supposed to tell you about a Bobbitt worm?

• 1:41:22Wes Larson?

  Yeah, that was the whole point of that was to just be able to for 30 seconds tell us about the Bobbitt worm. Yeah, great. Alright, thanks guys.

• 1:41:32Jeff Larson?

  Well, thank you everyone. Love you.

• 1:41:34Wes Larson?

  See ya. Love you too. Bye.