What Comes Next? Meme Coins, Globalism, AI, and the Death of Meaning | Tom Bilyeu Show

In today's episode of Impact Theory, Tom Bilyeu is joined by Producer Drew as we dive into some of the most pressing and controversial topics shaping our world right now. From the impending disruption brought on by AI, as discussed by tech investor Chris Sacca, to the evolving landscape of cryptocurrency and regulation, as highlighted by David Sacks, we explore what the future holds. Tom and Producer Drew also delve into the societal implications of rapid technological advancements, the balance between globalism and individualism, and the philosophical questions about meaning and purpose in an age of uncertainty. Featuring candid discussions, speculative insights, and a look at where we might be heading, today’s episode is a whirlwind tour of the forces driving change in our world. Buckle up for a thought-provoking conversation that tackles everything from AI-driven job markets to the rebirth of meme coins, and what these mean for our global economy and personal lives. Get ready, because it’s going to be spicy, weird, and incredibly insightful. SHOWNOTES 00:00 Uncertain Job Market Fears 03:58 Age of Abundance With AI 06:41 "Facing an Ominous Future" 11:21 Trump's Crypto Regulatory Initiative 15:20 Blockchain: Enabling Virtual World Ownership 16:47 Innovation Through Regulation 20:59 Stock Market Gambling Benefits Capital Formation 25:04 Meme Coins: Escaping the Financial System 27:07 Crypto's Gambling Cultural Moment 30:05 "Presidential Ethics and Scrutiny!" 34:35 Rethinking Death's Motivation 37:23 "Eternally Driven to Continue" 41:18 "Cycle of Aggregation and Disaggregation" 45:38 Spiritual KPIs: Measuring Inner Peace 47:03 Chase Joy, Embrace Detachment CHECK OUT OUR SPONSORS Range Rover: Range Rover: Explore the Range Rover Sport at https://landroverUSA.com https://landroverusa.com Audible: Sign up for a free 30 day trial at https://audible.com/IMPACTTHEORY https://audible.com/IMPACTTHEORY1 Vital Proteins: Get 20% off by going to https://www.vitalproteins.com and entering promo code IMPACT at check out. Tax Network USA: Stop looking over your shoulder and put your IRS troubles behind you. Call 1-800-958-1000 or visit https://impacttheory.co/TNUSAJan Shopify: Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial period at https://shopify.com/impact What's up, everybody? It's Tom Bilyeu here: If you want my help... STARTING a business:join me here at ZERO TO FOUNDER https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show SCALING a business:see if you qualify here. https://tombilyeu.com/call Get my battle-tested strategies and insights delivered weekly to your inbox:sign up here. https://tombilyeu.com/ ********************************************************************** If you're serious about leveling up your life, I urge you to check out my new podcast,Tom Bilyeu’s Mindset Playbook https://open.spotify.com/show/47VE90Cittmo6TGGFqg2xf —a goldmine of my most impactful episodes on mindset, business, and health. Trust me, your future self will thank you. ********************************************************************** Join me live on myTwitch stream https://impacttheory.co/4fitmnJ. I'm live daily from 6:30 to 8:30 am PT atwww.twitch.tv/tombilyeu https://impacttheory.co/4fitmnJ ********************************************************************** LISTEN TO IMPACT THEORY AD FREE + BONUS EPISODES on APPLE PODCASTS:apple.co/impacttheory http://apple.co/impacttheory ********************************************************************** FOLLOW TOM: Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/ Tik Tok:https://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=en Twitter:https://twitter.com/tombilyeu YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeu Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tom Bilyeu?

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• 0:45Tom Bilyeu?

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• 1:07Speaker 01

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• 1:52Speaker 01

  and provide the care, shelter, and love these animals urgently need. And for a limited time, the ASPCA will send you a free gift as a special thank you. Again, that's aspc.org/need.

• 2:07Tom Bilyeu?

  This just in, an asteroid is hurtling towards Earth and it's called AI. Billionaire Chris Sacca and the dinosaurs tell us to brace for impact. All while X reminds us that Sam Altman himself expects AI to end civilization. And yet, we can't help but be excited legitimately. CNBC anchor Andrew Sorkin says someone should meme coin him and they do. Whoops, be careful what you say. Saks says America will be the capital of crypto. And Drew, we got a hot one today. Tell us about it.

• 2:39Speaker 02

  All right.

• 2:39Tom Bilyeu?

  It's gonna be rough.

• 2:39Speaker 02

  Let's depress all our friends. Let's play that clip.

• 2:42Speaker 03

  I think other than most computer science, the highest level of computer science, almost all of the rest of coding is fucking useless. You and I can go to chat GPT and be like, I want to build an app that does this, this and this. And give me the code and it spits out the code. And then I've literally said, hey, by the way, I haven't coded since basic. What do I do with this? And it's like, oh, no problem. Go here, download this, open this Python thing and then shove it in here and then do this. And it just talks you through it. And now it'll be agentic and an agent's gonna do all that for you. You just don't need to fucking do it anymore. Would you send your kid to law school right now?

• 3:13Speaker 04

  No, definitely not.

• 3:14Speaker 03

  We have fewer lawyers at our firm now than we did a year ago. It's just fucking great. I can tell it, hey, you know what? Great job. Do it again, do it again, do it again. Hey, you know what? I forgot to tell you, we have all the leverage. Oh, in this case, actually do this. Hey, add this. Hey, write out the exhibit A schedule of services, which usually takes a couple hours. It's just so fucking good. Would you teach your kid accounting? Accounts receivable, accounts payable, bookkeeping right now? Would you have your kids write marketing copy? Would you train them to write any news other than writing for the very top newspapers?

• 3:45Speaker 04

  No, probably not.

• 3:46Speaker 03

  Dude, go down the list of fucking skills, man.

• 3:48Speaker 04

  So what's left?

• 3:49Speaker 03

  Here's my grand theory. We are super fucked.

• 3:52Tom Bilyeu?

  There it is. There it is. This is, okay, look, as I said in my tweet, this is the sounds that people make when they can't see over the horizon. When you look back on however many millennia of technology, it has always made things better. It has always, as you get into modern times, it's always ended up creating more jobs. But the period of disruption is brutal.

• 4:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:17Tom Bilyeu?

  So I don't want people to take it literally that we are all super fucked. What they are saying is, I don't know what it's going to look like, and that is very scary. That's why I think 2025 is really going to freak people out. Because you're going to start to feel the job market soften. Suddenly, it doesn't take three to six months to find a job. It takes 12 months, maybe it takes 18 months, maybe you don't find another job. And that kind of thing is going to get scary. But there will be a world on the other side of this. That world will be unfamiliar to all of us. But odds are that that world is going to be better than this one for reasons that I've talked about ad nauseam. But I'll give the very quick thumbnail sketch.

• 4:58Tom Bilyeu?

  You're bringing on, people say that it takes 18 years to make an 18 year old. That is no longer true. AI will be able to produce a, an embodied robot. What, you'll hear people say a Gentik AI. What they mean is that AI can do something. First, it'll start digitally, but then they'll be embodied in a robot. And so you're going to be able to make an army of 18 year olds, 25 year olds, 30 year olds, whatever. And they're going to be smarter than all of us. And you'll be able to do it instantaneously. And the level of disruption that's going to cause is insane, but it's going to drive energy costs to effectively zero. That's going to make everything effectively free. And all of a sudden, you're in a post capitalist world. What everybody on the left certainly is screaming that they want to be, but you don't have to do it by taking away from everybody. It will just be an age of abundance.

• 5:43Tom Bilyeu?

  And the reason I think that's going to happen is unless AI has a need to have it their way. You don't have to get into this doomsday scenario where AI wipes us off the face of the earth. That is very much us projecting human behaviors onto AI where we have to have things our way.

• 6:04Tom Bilyeu?

  But if AI literally doesn't care whether what it's trying to do is accomplished or not. If a human says, please stop doing that, then it stops. So you get to the point now where you can leverage the intelligence. You can have something do something for you. And the thing that I don't think people realize is things are expensive because people are expensive. Once you can get these things done without the expense.

• 6:32Tom Bilyeu?

  You're entering an age of abundance.

• 6:34Speaker 02

  There's something to that, though, that when you remove the people expense, things get cheaper. But doesn't that also eliminate the people who can then afford your product and that kind of? Are we shooting ourselves in the foot?

• 6:46Tom Bilyeu?

  So you're, well, what you're doing is breaking off half of it and saying that, well, oh, my God, wait a second, everything is cheap now. I have all these people that are making this thing, but then, wait a second, nobody's going to buy my thing. That's why I say it's post capitalist. You're not going to need anybody to buy your thing because you don't have to pay for anything. Now, again, that's a long enough timeline. That's going to be a very rocky road. I am choosing to look over a horizon that I can't actually see and imagine a better world. I get it. I can't see around that corner either. What I'm doing is saying, I think Matt Ridley's idea of the rational optimist,

• 7:27Tom Bilyeu?

  you cannot look backwards at an unending string of progress and then look forward and say it's all going to fuck up now. It is very understandable to be paranoid. It is very understandable to try to do things like Align AI and not just assume that this is all going to work out miraculously well.

• 7:45Tom Bilyeu?

  We won't accidentally end up in a better future, but I don't see a reason why it has to be a negative future. The, the thing that I think that we have to worry about is meaning and purpose. That's the one thing that I'm like, oof, I don't think people are good at putting meaning and purpose in their life now in a world where that's far easier than when we really don't matter. We're not necessary for that sense of progress. That I think is scary. That I think people are going to have to address. There's going to be a great need for some kind of new spiritual awakening. And so that's going to be interesting. But I am going to be very confusing to people because I am both completely freaked out by what's happening

• 8:29Tom Bilyeu?

  and choosing to not be paralyzed by that. And to focus on making sure that we end up in the positive future. But it really is an asteroid hurtling towards Earth. There's no two ways about it.

• 8:40Speaker 02

  I'm kind of conflicted because I do see all the positives and you know, we talked to a lot of the same guests, the people that are coming to into the show. So I see the the glass half full perspective of it, but I am really thinking about, you called it a period of disruption.

• 8:56Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, it's no longer glass half full, glass half empty. It is glass thrown at a thousand miles an hour at the wall. That is shattering and water is going everywhere. That's the reality of what's about to happen for real. Yeah, and we are all going to live through it. And look, I've mapped out, you and I've talked a lot about this. So 25 is the year that people's souls start to get eaten in that they just they're they really see now they can't see the future. And that's terrifying. People are not going to respond well to that. There will be for sure, I guarantee it, play this clip back and if I look like a fool by 2028, let's say, just to give myself some padding. So be it great because my prediction is there will be pockets of violence.

• 9:42Tom Bilyeu?

  How bad those pockets of violence get, I don't know. I'm going to clock it now at call it 2020. So when we went through that summer and it was brutal and there were mostly peaceful protests, you're going to see that. My hope is that the violence is relegated to violence against robots. I think that's going to be the initial pushback as those really begin to flood the market. You said something to me today that I was like, well, maybe.

• 10:10Tom Bilyeu?

  That it happens a little bit sooner because as people can't find that next job, they are going to freak out. And so we'll see, but I think I think you've got 18 months before people really start to go, oh, wait a second. This is, this isn't bad in theory, this is bad in practice.

• 10:31Speaker 02

  18 months. All right. Any doomsday preppers in our community? Let me know. I need a bunker.

• 10:36Tom Bilyeu?

  It goes to that. It won't go to that that fast, but.

• 10:40Speaker 02

  You have to learn how to operate off the grid there.

• 10:42Tom Bilyeu?

  If you've got, if you've got a billion robots.

• 10:47Tom Bilyeu?

  That's, that's gonna, that's gonna hit. That's gonna feel some kind of way.

• 10:53Speaker 02

  That's.

• 10:55Tom Bilyeu?

  And that's coming in the next seven years?

• 11:00Tom Bilyeu?

  I'll pat it and say 10, but you've got a billion robots in 10 years for sure. Humanoid robots.

• 11:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, like walking and doing all the things.

• 11:07Tom Bilyeu?

  Yup.

• 11:09Tom Bilyeu?

  For you, though, that's the thing, like all of a sudden.

• 11:11Speaker 02

  It sounds good. I watch iRobot. I don't think so. I think it's.

• 11:14Tom Bilyeu?

  It should sound a mix of terrifying and exciting. That's the right blend.

• 11:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:19Tom Bilyeu?

  Man, it's interesting. It's interesting. So we're trying to get a panel put together of sci fi writers because I think that's what we need right now is people that, sci fi writers' job is not to imagine the cars, to imagine the traffic jam. I want to sit down and have these conversations about what is this really going to look like?

• 11:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:36Tom Bilyeu?

  Over this horizon. Of course, everyone's going to be wrong.

• 11:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:40Tom Bilyeu?

  But directionally, I think sci fi writers are going to help us think through this problem. It'll be interesting.

• 11:47Speaker 02

  Well, coming soon, coming soon. In the meantime, I got to get rich on the crypto market because meme coins are back. You said it in the intro with the Andrew Sorkin clip, coin being made. And then Ivanka Trump got an unauthorized coin made of her in that launch. And of course, we all know the Trump and the Trump and Ivanka coin that went live on inauguration day. I feel like crypto had a busy week. And while on one side, the strategic reserve is now looking interesting to now this side of like memes. Can you just lay out the atmosphere for us? Because I feel like with AI, how we don't see how disrupting this is to the job market and to technology. I feel like crypto is having a similar moment in like the finance industry.

• 12:26Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes, let's play the David Sacks clip. I think this one sets the stage for what we're about to see here.

• 12:34Speaker 05

  Donald Trump said on July 27th that he would stop federal agencies from targeting the crypto industry. He made good on that promise today, right?

• 12:42Speaker 06

  Yeah, absolutely. I mean, President Trump campaigned to be the first crypto president. He gave a now famous speech in Nashville where he described how he was going to change the regulatory environment for crypto. And he has now acted on that promise. He signed this executive order today. He's directed our working group to produce a regulatory framework that's going to encourage innovation in crypto in the United States, keeping the industry onshore rather than driving it offshore, which is what was happening. under the Biden administration. Or I believe that what we should be doing is extending the dollar's dominance into digital areas, extend it online. And I think that could actually create trillions of dollars of demand for US treasuries. It could be really useful to us and in basically supporting our debt and also bringing down long-term interest rates.

• 13:27Speaker 05

  I want to get your take on the Trump coin, which started right before he took office. Are you concerned about a conflict of interest there?

• 13:34Speaker 06

  I don't think so. I think the Trump coins are collectible. Like I mentioned, there's different categories of digital assets. That's a collectible. It's like a baseball card or a stamp. People buy it because they want to commemorate something. So this is just my personal opinion. I'm not a regulator, but my personal opinion is that it's totally fine.

• 13:51Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, this is there. There is a lot in that announcement. Now, be very clear, as David Sacks said, he is not a regulator. It is not going to be up to him. This executive order is not putting a bunch of things into law. So there's going to need to still be a lot of clarity that comes out of this. But when he talks about the lack of regulatory clarity, to me, that is crazy. The way that they were running that by, there's a name for it. I'm forgetting it right now. But basically, they do everything through pursuing people legally. So rather than just saying, here are the rules of the road, abide by this. They're like, go ahead, try it. See if we sue you. It's crazy. That's that is so absurd. It would be like saying, OK, we have these new things called cars and roads,

• 14:36Tom Bilyeu?

  but we're not going to tell you whether you can drive on them. We're not going to tell you what side. We're not going to tell you what stops. We're not even going to put stop signs or lights or anything. Just figure it out. But there are rules.

• 14:45Speaker 02

  There's a whole bunch of cops lined up with guns.

• 14:47Tom Bilyeu?

  Literally. So, dude, it is the most abusive system ever. So giving people now clarity, I think, is really, really important. And to his point, it's going to bring that innovation back. Now, I think the thing that we want to be talking about as online denizens is, is this good? Is this bad? Is crypto good? Is crypto bad? You're getting a lot of that argument happening. And so now having some.

• 15:20Tom Bilyeu?

  In the creation of the regulatory framework and getting the people to lobby Congress and let people know what they want to see out of this. Now this can become a really fruitful debate. So stepping back up to the 30,000 foot view and saying, okay, wait a second. Uh, why does crypto matter? So, uh, this has been the drum that I've been beating forever is that web three. Uh, crypto is, it's a technology. And when you understand it as a technology and you understand. What that technology opens up, then things get interesting. I don't think that we're going to survive AI. Without the blockchain, period, full stop, end of story. You will not know what's real.

• 16:03Tom Bilyeu?

  So the blockchain is a way to, to, um, bring the properties, some of the properties of the physical world into the digital world. So for instance, is this AI or is this real with the blockchain? You're going to be able to stamp that. And you'll be able to have things like on X where it just auto reads and says, yes, this is signed by the account that says that they're putting it out. So let's say that I make a statement and I stamp it with something from the blockchain and I say, this really is a message brought to you by Tom Viliu. Because hearing my voice and seeing me say that this is a message by Tom Viliu isn't going to make any sense anymore because people will be able to fake that.

• 16:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, deep fakes and all that.

• 16:41Tom Bilyeu?

  Right. But they won't be able to fake my cryptographic signature. So now all these things that we've sort of taken for granted, that you can believe what you see. We all know that that's not true anymore and it's getting more and more sophisticated by the minute. So that's one of the many things that the blockchain can do. As a game developer, I am beyond, uh, enthralled with what it can do when I think about. Trying to make Ready Player One a reality where people can create these incredible experiences inside of a virtual world where you need to be able to say. Who owns something, where that thing is in the virtual world, what it gives you access to, all of those things are only possible with. The blockchain. So the idea of the blockchain, bringing the laws of physics to the virtual world, some of them.

• 17:25Tom Bilyeu?

  I want to be very clear, obviously not all of them, but it brings some of the laws of the physical world into the virtual world. It's incredibly important as the virtual world becomes more and more meaningful to us to be able to do that. So when people look at an FTX and they think that is crypto and huge scam, people lost a ton of the money. The reality is what happened there was you had people violating already established laws. You can't co-mingle funds like that. That was already illegal. That isn't a crypto thing. That was just a way for, um, that was the thing that a very, um, horrific company leveraged to do horrible things with people's money. But again, that was already illegal.

• 18:08Tom Bilyeu?

  So what you, you don't want to say because somebody did something illegal with the saying that we want to completely get rid of this. That to me, it would be the wrong way to approach this. So what I think this administration is trying to do is to say, I don't know all of the things that are going to be created, but I do know that if we give people rules, that then we will be surprised by the innovation that comes out of this. So innovation is all the stuff we can't think of, all the things that we didn't know were going to be possible. But if you give people the restrictions, the rules within which to play, then that innovation can thrive. And by bringing it here to America, we're going to be able to reap the benefits of this.

• 18:48Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay. I think that's all incredibly, incredibly important. Uh, now you get into, as you zoom farther in and you start going, okay, wait a second. Okay, Tom, I buy your argument that, um, cryptography is allowing us to bring some of the properties of the physical world into the digital world. Okay. I can see that that might lead to some interesting and innovative, positive things. Uh, I buy the argument about AI is just going to be runaway fakery everywhere. Won't know what's real. Cool. I get that. But let's talk about a really specific thing that's been born of this, something like a meme coin. Okay. David Sacks, one of the things that he's signaling there is that this administration is going to take the approach that those things are collectibles. Okay.

• 19:29Tom Bilyeu?

  Debate time. Whether these are collectibles or not, I think that that's really worthy of looking at from a regulatory perspective. As somebody that is, the video game that we're doing leverages NFTs, those are, those have become filthy letters when strung together. But the idea of the skins inside of our video game, those are done on Web3 rails so that you own it, right? So it's a thing that if you want to go sell, you can go sell. Now, originally, when I got into this, I thought that it would attract collectors. It doesn't, it attracts gamblers. And so that was really surprising to me. So I don't think that issue is going to be as culturally clean as people think. Whether people should be able to do it or

• 20:14Tom Bilyeu?

  not, I'll come down firmly on the side of people should be able to do whatever they want that's legal with their money. So I don't see why you need to make gambling illegal. If people want to bet on football games, I think they should be able to. If people want to bet on meme coins, I think they should be able to. But somebody hit me in the comments on YouTube the other day, and they, oh God, I forget what they compared now. But it was like Bitcoins, I think it was Bitcoin and meme coins. Bitcoin and meme coins are the same thing, Tom. And my response was, that doesn't make any sense to me. That's like saying that my mom and my wife are the same thing, because they're both women. And I'm like, hold the phone. My relationship with my mom and my relationship with my wife are very different. And that context matters unimaginably. As people can imagine, I treat

• 20:59Tom Bilyeu?

  my wife and my mother excruciatingly different. And so how you put a regulatory framework around that is going to be for somebody else to decide. But if you can't see that there's a difference, even though you can describe my mom and my wife at a layer of analysis or a level of analysis where they will sound exactly the same. But we all know in reality, when you step back and look at that objectively, it's like, nope, there's very easy to draw lines around these and say behavior with one is wildly inappropriate for behavior with the other. And I would say the same is true for Bitcoin and meme coins, even though I get it at one level of analysis, you can make them sound identical. Now to me, this is not going to be a universally held position. But to me, meme coins are simply a method of gambling.

• 21:44Tom Bilyeu?

  And to say that a meme coin, for instance, is an equity, that it's like a stock in a company, that launching a coin is the same as launching an IPO. My reaction to that is absolutely not. Now, the reason that I say that goes back to that context. So there is a reason that I think allowing people, the, the stock market is gambling. Hold tight, we're going to take a quick break.

• 22:12Tom Bilyeu?

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• 22:53Tom Bilyeu?

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• 23:38Tom Bilyeu?

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• 24:22Tom Bilyeu?

  And we're back. The, the stock market is gambling. Okay, but not all gambling is the stock market. So let me be clear, the stock market is gambling. It's nonsensical to look at the stock market in any way, shape or form, other than to say this is gambling. That's like saying that my mom is a woman. Yes, this is true. My wife, also a woman. But the reason that I say not all women are my mother is because when you look at, there's what I call a cover story with the stock market. And the cover story for the stock market and the reason why I think it is extremely good that people allow for gambling in the stock market in a way that they get weird when we start talking about a football game, even though I don't think they should.

• 25:04Tom Bilyeu?

  But when you look at gambling in the stock market, you're allowing companies to aggregate capital just from people that just want to gamble. But you're allowing those companies to aggregate capital from the gamblers. And they say, with this money, I'm going to build a company. And you're going to be able to see into that company. I'm going to have all kinds of reporting requirements and all that stuff. So you can see that I'm really doing the things with that capital that I said I was going to do. But you're allowing them to aggregate that capital and build the economic engine that gives this country and many others, the prosperity that has pulled God knows how many billions of people out of poverty. Okay, so capitalism has this tremendous knock on effect of creating a world of plenty.

• 25:48Tom Bilyeu?

  Very unequal distributions, I understand that. But it's still the only thing that we've seen that pull people out of poverty. Okay, so that's what happens when you're allowed to gamble on the stock market by doing an IPO. Now, why aren't meme coins an IPO? Meme coins are not an IPO because there is none of that quote unquote cover story. There's none of the, I'm gonna do this thing with this capital and create a thing that is building something that the world considers valuable such that the company itself creates a self-sustaining economic engine. Okay, remember, companies sell a thing of value for more than it costs them to make it. So they can continue to pay their employees, continue to make that thing.

• 26:29Tom Bilyeu?

  So even without the IPO, this is why private companies that are not raising capital from the outside world can also create a self-sustaining economic engine. And they can keep going without allowing people to gamble on their company. Okay, that tells you that there's a thing there with or without the gambling that really works. Okay, this is why you've got these, hey, they're both women, but two wildly different things. So meme coins are people betting on culture. Okay, again, it's gambling, people wanna gamble, they wanna bet on culture. Launching it to me is not launching an equity. Sacks is saying, he, as the AI and crypto czar, not a regulator, but he views them as collectibles.

• 27:14Tom Bilyeu?

  I think it's wildly different. I wish that it attracted collectors, but that's me applying my definition.

• 27:21Speaker 02

  So you disagree with that, that a meme coin is a collectible?

• 27:24Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, I probably just disagree on what a collectible is. To me, a collectible is something that has emotional value that people wanna own because it's a thing that matters to them. And maybe one day down the line, they'll sell it, but that's not really the juice. The juice is, I love this thing and I collect this thing. This is an arbitrary definition that Tom Bilyeu is making up. I am not asking the world to adopt it. But if you wanna understand the language that comes out of my mouth, about my feelings, about what meme coins are and whether I like them or not, how I differentiate what we're doing at Impact Theory from what other people are doing. To me, I am only interested in the collecting side. I am not interested in the speculation side. I got smashed in the face by that, just did not see that one coming

• 28:08Tom Bilyeu?

  when I originally got involved in Web 3. Cool. Not a fan, don't like that energy as a builder. It's just not my shtick. Yeah. Um, so meme coins though, if you look at what the phenomenon is at this moment in history. Okay. We all know, basically for me, everything boils down to the way that the financial system is built. And that, uh, you've got fiat money. People print the life out of it. That's stealing. Uh, they're stealing money from people, uh, without reducing the number of dollars that you have in your bank account. But the, the very fancy way, uh, of getting that money, which causes people to go, wait a second.

• 28:48Tom Bilyeu?

  My, I can't save my way to retirement. Uh, so now I have to gamble. We lovingly call it investing. Um, and that has created this culture where you've got primarily young people that feel completely isolated from the American dream, where their future is going to be better than today. Their kid's future is going to be better than today. They don't believe it. They don't believe it because of the things that would normally get them on that wealth building path. They really aren't available and I'll oversimplify it to real estate. Okay. Real estate just doesn't really exist for them in, in terms of their ability to get on that property ladder. So now to beat inflation, they can't buy a house and live in it. Uh, so they have to gamble.

• 29:31Tom Bilyeu?

  And they are right now gambling on things like Bitcoin. They're gambling on things like meme coins. Now, again, I think Bitcoin is very different than a meme coin. Um, for contextual reasons, I'm not saying, again, you can describe Bitcoin, it will sound exactly like a meme coin. But I'm saying contextually, people are using Bitcoin as a way to store wealth. Uh, anybody, Peter Schiff, I love you, but anybody that tries to get you to believe that gold isn't a meme mineral is a fool. Uh, gold is a meme mineral. Silver is a meme mineral. They are used for things, but that's not what predicates their value. And anybody that tries to get you to believe that's just foolish. It's just not anchored to that. And so it's a terrible strategy, meme coins, a terrible strategy from where I'm sitting.

• 30:15Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, to actually generate the kind of wealth that you're going to be able to retire on one day. Cause people just keep betting and betting and betting and betting. Uh, and they're probably going to lose way more than they win. Um, but that's the cultural moment. That's what we're living in. And as you start parsing these things out and stop staying at that 30,000 foot view of just being like, but FTX like that, that is crypto. It's like. It's technology. It's technology hitting a cultural moment. There's all different kinds of things. And this is why. Give regulatory clarity. And then see what happens. And some of this stuff is. Just gonna be gambling and it's nothing more sophisticated.

• 31:00Tom Bilyeu?

  Some of it is gonna be a flight to safety like Bitcoin, only because of the context. Only because the world is agreed and the second the world stops agreeing on Bitcoin, then it will turn into a meme coin. So.

• 31:12Tom Bilyeu?

  All of these things have to be isolated. They have to be looked at individually. But when you start doing that. I think people will, one, be able to better understand what this moment is and what's happening. Two, they will see, oh, this is a technology and technology makes innovation possible. And so we're gonna innovate. And then we'll get the regulatory framework that we need to ice out the things that are trash.

• 31:35Speaker 02

  At the end of the clip there. David Sacks brought up specifically like the Trump coin. Do you think that there's a difference him being the president? Outside of like the collectible and all that argument like. We still have to address the fact that like Trump did launch a coin and. In that context, I understand what a meme coin is, but. Now politically, is it okay that our president is now participating in the gambling?

• 31:55Tom Bilyeu?

  I hate it. So it seems I really like. That some things aren't a law. But they're a custom and you violate that custom at. You violate that custom. And it is not a good look and it's gonna make people feel some kind of way. So until nineteen fifty one, it was just a custom. That you could only be president for two terms. And it became that custom because George Washington left after two terms. And the vibe on the street, if you will, at that time was like, he's never gonna do it. He's not gonna give up power. He remains incredibly popular and he basically has this opportunity to become king of America.

• 32:37Tom Bilyeu?

  And he said, I'm not going to do it. Two terms, enough, topping out, going home. And everybody did the same thing. They voluntarily didn't run for a third term. And then we had FDR who ran and was elected four times. And then when he died in office, people like, yo, we need to stop this being a like thing that we do like out of the kindness of our heart. And we need to say, there's two fucking term limits. That's it. Period. End of story. And let's formalize it. So I think that there's this informal thing that says, hey, pretty gross. If a president is coming in and they are enriching themselves off of being the president. And so we put all, I don't know how much was law and how much was just like, hey, don't be a dick.

• 33:23Tom Bilyeu?

  But we have guidelines around what a president should and shouldn't do. And people would really scrutinize things that they did, like, did people stay at Trump's hotel? If they did, bad mojo, go after him. You know, we just, we, we frowned on this aggressively. Again, I don't know if that's a law or just something that culturally we're like, this is terrible.

• 33:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Dude with a meme coin? I, I won't read his mind. I won't say this is why he did it. But I will say that it would be very easy for anybody to go, hey, Trump, you own 80% of that coin. Wouldn't it be nice if you could sell a little bit? When I drive the price up by buying $50 million worth of stuff? And so now it's not a bribe. Technically, but that's pretty gross. I don't like that. I don't like that. I don't like that it could be there. I don't like the way that looks. I don't love anything about that. So that's one of those where if we're going to say that people in Congress should not be owning stocks.

• 34:30Tom Bilyeu?

  I would say people in Congress or presidents should not have a meme coin. It just, it's too ripe for abuse.

• 34:42Tom Bilyeu?

  So yeah, not, not a big fan, but it does let you know that as far as meme coins go, I would say like, yo, if you're gonna fuck with a meme coin, that's the one to play with because what makes a meme coin, and this is what Andrew Sorkin is finding out the hard way, is meme coin is, is a bet on a moment in culture. And the problem is all of those moments begin to dwindle and go away because people just aren't paying attention. But people are gonna pay attention to Trump for the next four years for sure. And so there are going to be, remember volatility is what people want. People want volatility. They want the price to go up. They want the price to go down and back up.

• 35:24Tom Bilyeu?

  But somebody like Trump, that coin is gonna be all over the place. It's gonna be swinging wildly. And so now it gives people something to bet on. It gives them a reason to care about politics. It gives them the ability to invest in Trump as politician because they can like bet on all kinds of stuff. Cause they're gonna be thinking, oh, he's gonna pass this law, do this thing, whatever. Like for instance, I have not looked at this closely, whatever. Uh, but I know at some point down the road, you want to talk about the ICE, um, raids and did it backfire? Did it work? Did it backfire? And so people are gonna be like, oh, they're gonna do this piece of legislation. They're gonna try this. He's going to meet with this world leader. I'm gonna bet on it. And you bet on it by buying or selling your meme coin.

• 36:10Tom Bilyeu?

  That is, that, that just is. Now I will let other people decide if that should be legal, but that is, that is what's going to happen. And if you understand that sense of enthusiasm, that it makes it more exciting, uh, you'll get why people are gonna do it. More to come. We'll be back in a bit. You're probably paying two salespeople to do one salesperson's job. That's where today's sponsor Pipe Drive comes in. An intelligent AI-powered sales CRM loved by growing sales teams. Pipe Drive just launched meeting intelligence built right into the CRM. Before every call, it pulls deal history and past conversations into one brief.

• 36:52Tom Bilyeu?

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• 37:32Speaker 02

  It's interesting that you bring up Trump's third term because a Republican from Tennessee, Andrew Ogles has just issued a...

• 37:41Speaker 02

  Okay, I'm not gonna say it's... And I just want to make sure that, you know, they're putting the legislation out there. It hasn't gotten voted on, it hasn't gotten passed, it's not an executive order. So I want to clarify that. But this does look a little interesting that he's also enriching himself in power and somebody is now voluntarily teasing out maybe a third Trump term would be a good thing. This is also icky, at least that's how I feel about it.

• 38:04Tom Bilyeu?

  Hard pass.

• 38:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:05Tom Bilyeu?

  Hard pass for me.

• 38:09Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, I like me some two-term limits, man, because, woo.

• 38:15Tom Bilyeu?

  The fact that our government turns over is our strength, not our weakness. I understand how it plays internationally, but there is a reason that at the end of the fourth term of... Or not the end of this term, because he died. But once the presidency of FDR ended, there's a reason that people were like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Ratify the Constitution. Okay, because people didn't want to get stuck in that where the longer you're in office, the more likely you are to get reelected. This is exactly what happens in Congress and the Senate is people are just like name recognition. Yeah, sure, like that, I don't want to have to think about it again. Yep, yep, yep, got it, got it. And you lose that vibrancy of the turnover. In fact...

• 39:00Tom Bilyeu?

  Can we talk for a second? Okay, for a long time, Drew. For a long time, I was like, I want to live forever. It is the very thing that motivates me the most. And then, at some point, I started going, I actually think now as I get older, I'm more motivated by the reality that unless something changes, I am going to die. And it just got me thinking about, what is it about death? From an evolutionary standpoint, it's not necessary. Like, we could, like, there's, there is a jellyfish that lives forever. Now, what it does is it basically goes back to this blob-like state where I assume what's happening is it's going back to

• 39:41Tom Bilyeu?

  undifferentiated pluripotent cells, and then they re-differentiate and rebuild. This is why we can have children. And the child isn't old. So we have within us the ability to start something again from scratch. So why don't we just do it to ourselves? And I think this is, I hate that this is true. I think the reason is that there's a quote from Max Planck that says, "Science does not advance one insight at a time, it advances one funeral at a time." Meaning, you gotta clear the dead intellectual wood out to make room for the new vibrant ideas. And that as we get older, we, um, our thinking becomes dogmatic.

• 40:25Tom Bilyeu?

  And all the things that made us, you know, brilliant when we were young, they start slowing things down as we get old. And look, I would still like to live forever, I want to be very honest. Uh, I'm happy if you ship me off to Mars and that's all the people that, you know, whatever, 160 are forced to leave. Notice I threw that number pretty high. Because I think renewal's a real thing. So, I think that same thing applies to the political machinery. If we want to stay vibrant, we, you want to age people out. Not, not in terms of their actual literal age, though, that too, but that's a separate conversation.

• 41:02Tom Bilyeu?

  You just don't want anybody to stay around too long. It, it, it stops vibrancy, it stops new ideas from making their way forward.

• 41:12Speaker 02

  I don't know if I could live forever. I feel like that's the the beauty of life is that it's temporary. So if you can.

• 41:18Tom Bilyeu?

  Why do you think that?

• 41:20Speaker 02

  In a very weird way. It's kind of the abundance trap because when you have more of something, it has less value. As when you have a little bit of it, then you want to kind of hold on to it.

• 41:31Tom Bilyeu?

  Let me ask you a question.

• 41:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:33Tom Bilyeu?

  And maybe the answer will scare me. Have you ever woken up and thought? Nah, I'd rather be dead.

• 41:40Speaker 02

  Um, yes.

• 41:42Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, maybe that answers the question. I haven't. And because I haven't, I think, well, I want to keep going. I can't imagine a day where I'd ever be like, I don't ever want another shot at this. And because I believe that, I know that I will be sad when the ride comes to an end. And my enjoyment of this ride, even when I was young, my enjoyment was never predicated on it's going to end. My enjoyment was always predicated on I can do this, and I can do this, and I can do this. And so I think that there are a lot of people that have that algorithm of like, I'm only able to play this hard because I know I'm not gonna have to play this hard forever.

• 42:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:23Tom Bilyeu?

  And I like playing this hard because I like playing this hard. And I think that might be part of what is confusing to people. There's it's also possible that having kids would trip something in my brain. That would say, oh, it's better for you to die off and to let them go. Because I don't have kids, maybe that um neurological uh algorithm just never got tripped. That's possible.

• 42:47Tom Bilyeu?

  But I also think that people are just wired differently. So I never look at that and think, oh, yeah, I want this ride to end. Uh, so.

• 42:54Speaker 02

  But I mean, wanting death doesn't. I I think those are the two things aren't the same. I think that going back to like you appreciate because you know that people aren't gonna be around, you try to appreciate them more. But if you knew that everybody was gonna be around, you would think like, oh, I have more time, I have more time, I have more time.

• 43:10Tom Bilyeu?

  What I'm saying is, in that moment where I'm like, I have more time, I have more time, or money, I have tons of money.

• 43:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:17Tom Bilyeu?

  Those aren't the things that make me value or not value something. So the very thing that makes me value my life is not that I know it will end, though I do find that now very motivating. But what makes me enjoy my life isn't that. It is that I love doing the things that I'm doing in and of themselves. This is why I really, really, really, really advise people. Do not value yourself for success. Value yourself for the sincere pursuit. So I'm never thinking about finish lines or accomplishment. I'm thinking about right now. You and I are doing something that I find thoroughly enjoyable right now.

• 44:01Tom Bilyeu?

  And as we prepare for these episodes, always a little bit hard. It's always a little bit frustrating. We never feel like we have enough time.

• 44:08Tom Bilyeu?

  But I still love it. Like, I love that the textures of it are different, that the preparation for the episode feels very different than the episode itself, that that feels like the practice. And then the reward is that we get to think through these things and talk about these things. And I find that absolutely thrilling. Because I'm a in the moment guy as much as I can. Look, I fall prey to the same traps everybody else does. But I really do enjoy the in the moment while I'm doing it thing. And I've tried to construct my life around that. So take even spending time with my mom at Christmas. I'm hyper aware that I only have so many Christmases left with my mom. But that isn't the thing that makes it fun in the moment. The thing that makes it fun in the moment is a very complex answer.

• 44:51Tom Bilyeu?

  But she makes me feel some kind of way. And talking to her makes me feel some kind of way. And that isn't predicated on, I won't have any more of this.

• 45:01Speaker 02

  Nice, nice. All right, we got two catchalls and then we can wrap this up. First, we have this tweet that we talked about earlier. Globalism is civilizational suicide. And to me, I caught it ironic when you showed it to me that Western nations are feeding into globalism. Now with the AI and technology boom, we're now kind of. Even departing from capital itself, so now we really can work without the people next to us in our immediate communities, but that also can be our downfall. Just, I just wanted to kind of hear your perspective on like this globalism versus individualism debate on the country scale.

• 45:37Tom Bilyeu?

  There is a really powerful idea in business that everything is about aggregation and then disaggregation. So you look at when the streaming wars were happening, it was just a proliferation of all these different services. And now they're gonna consolidate and people are gonna buy them up and you're gonna have very few. And then somebody's gonna realize there's a business opportunity and breaking them back apart and they will break back apart and then they will come back together and break apart and come back together. And that is one of the drivers in the business cycle. The same is true at the international level. There will be times where everybody prospers more from cooperation and spreading things out and getting things done the cheapest over here because they're gonna invest in that technology, letting China specialize in manufacturing and America's gonna specialize

• 46:22Tom Bilyeu?

  in technology and we break apart. And then we realize, oh, wait a second, the Chinese economy is getting a little bit too strong, we're weakened by the fact that we don't have any manufacturing. Middle America is really starting to squawk because we have made their lives worse, not better. And so now we're bringing it back and we've got the political will to do that and so we'll come back together. And then whatever, 75, 100 years from now, we're gonna break back apart and we're gonna go globalist again. So it's part of a cycle, right? So this is the right meme now, but it wasn't the right meme in the 90s. Now, people that could predict that this is where this was gonna go, were just saying, yeah, we'll go through this really rad period, but then on the other side of this, this is

• 47:04Tom Bilyeu?

  gonna suck, but you gotta pass through a really rad period. So it comes down to what's the moment in time? That moment in time is based on how people are feeling, based on what's actually happening in their lives. And as circumstances change, then the vibe will change, the policies will change, the reality will change, and it's just a cycle over and over and over and over.

• 47:25Speaker 02

  Nice, and we have one community question. This is specifically to the biggest pain point of this new level of our future. She's referencing AI at this point. What are the pain points of this new chapter of, for the average person and what are the KPIs to be focused on when facing these challenges? Separate.

• 47:41Tom Bilyeu?

  Oh, sorry.

• 47:42Speaker 02

  And then the second part will be, how do you address this topic with others to wake them up from the impending shift?

• 47:47Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, uh, let's take the last part first, this show. We talk about it on this show. Uh, and it's gonna be a mixed bag. There's no two ways about it. Uh, okay. So the biggest pain point is gonna be meaning and purpose. Meaning and purpose is ultimately all that matters. All the money in the world is not gonna help you if you don't feel like you matter. If you don't feel like you're contributing in a positive way, if you don't have a reason for your suffering. Uh, read Viktor Frankl's book, Man's Search for Meaning, even in a concentration camp. Uh, even in the face of the death of everyone and everything that you love, dying and being obliterated, you can find a reason to keep going. Uh, the Nietzschean quote, anyone with a strong enough why can survive almost anyhow. Uh, so

• 48:27Tom Bilyeu?

  meaning and purpose is the primary algorithm that is placed in the human mind. Uh, and this is why you get things as insane as the Crusades. And you can get people to leave their homes and go fight, uh, on another continent, uh, to steal all their gold, basically, and all their land. Because you're doing it in the name of God. Uh, this is why people will die for their families. Um, it's meaning and purpose. I, I will give everything up to and including my life because this thing matters to me that much. Uh, and if you don't have meaning and purpose in your life, it's game over. So AI is going to rob people of the automatic meaning and purpose. I think family's gonna become tremendously important. I think, and this is coming from a guy with no kids.

• 49:12Tom Bilyeu?

  Uh, I think family is going to be the solution and people refocusing their energy and their efforts on, uh, finding love. Getting married, having children, raising them well, that's gonna be the play. And the default play, it's not the path that I'm walking down, but I am, I am so hyper aware of the need to constantly find meaning and purpose in my life. But I think that will be the standard path that people will walk. I think there's gonna be a tremendous spiritual awakening, re-embrace, whatever you wanna call it. But there is a God-shaped hole in all of us, and that is going to need to be filled. Uh, and that's, those are the dangers in this moment, and that's ultimately how it's gonna be solved.

• 49:52Speaker 02

  So what KPIs could we interstate that if we wanted to find what our meaning and purpose is in life?

• 49:57Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so spiritual things are very difficult to turn into a KPI, but the generic thing, because I did not think of an answer ahead of time, the generic thing is just gonna be, how do you feel? Do you have a sense of I matter? Are you doing something that makes you feel expansive or makes you contract? Are you able to listen to a show like this where I with laughter say that there's an asteroid hurtling towards the earth, but I really mean it? Can you look at that? Can you stare in the face of that anxiety and still go about your life and look at the people that you love? Somebody said, "It might be worth putting up." I tweeted this out. In fact, I'm gonna end us on this. I'm just gonna read this tweet.

• 50:41Tom Bilyeu?

  And I hope that it answers this question in full and then we'll be leaving people with something very wonderful and very positive. I got a private text message from a friend who was in a pretty dark place and they were looking for me to give them that sort of rah rah motivational thing and instead I gave them the following. "All of life is one big Jedi mind trick. If pursuit isn't bringing you joy, ease off of pursuit and focus on what you already have. If all you have is a pot to piss in, good, you're not dying of cancer. And if you're dying of cancer, good, it will make you savor this moment.

• 51:22Tom Bilyeu?

  The only reason I enjoy my life is precisely because I don't value myself for succeeding. I only pursue things because I like the chase. If I wasn't having fun with the pursuit, I would stop chasing and never look back. I remind myself constantly that in my back pocket is the option to choose monk-like detachment. Wanting is the disease. Helping others is the cure. Read the Tao to Jing. It will change your life if you let it. None of us ever achieve our desired level of greatness. Greatness itself is a trap. Sit with your eyes closed and think of those you love. Fill your heart with that love. If you love no one, get a dog. Pour yourself into those who need it. Stop thinking you..." Love yourself when you achieve you won't.

• 52:04Tom Bilyeu?

  You will love yourself when you decide that you are already enough flawed as you are. When self-improvement stops being fun, slow down and love something. Want nothing more than you have, need nothing more than a warm room, a full belly, and something that smiles or wags its tail when it sees you. Life really is that simple. Oh, and have cheap hobbies. Love you, brother. Wish life was easier, but it's not.

• 52:28Speaker 02

  Well said. That's all I got.

• 52:30Tom Bilyeu?

  There it is. All right, everybody, if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care and peace.

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