My Wife Had an Affair Because She Doesn’t Find Me Attractive

On today’s episode, we hear about: · A husband trying to process his wife’s affair · A woman unsure how to proceed with a new relationship · A father wondering how to avoid his ex-wife without hurting his son Next Steps: 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. 🔴 Get 15% off with code DELONY at BON CHARGE. 🌿 Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. 😇 Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial. 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 🥤 Get 20% off with code DELONY at Organifi. 💪 Get 25% off your order at Thorne. 🏋 Go to trainwell to get started! Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  I'm trying to save my marriage after finding out that my wife had a three-month affair with her boss.

• 0:10Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, man.

• 0:11Speaker 00

  And I don't know what to do. My wife has been dealing with a lack of attraction towards me. She says that I am overwhelming in my desire.

• 0:22Dr. John Delony?

  Why do you want to save this marriage? What in the world's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show, talking to you about your mental and emotional health and your relationships and your marriage and your kids, whatever you got going on in your life. And you tried to Google it and you tried to chat GPT it and you just went, what? I need someone to sit down with me and listen to me. And that's the promise on this show. I'll sit with you and we'll figure out what's your next right step. All of us have chaotic lives. Not everybody's got somebody they can just sit down with and that's what this show's all about. You want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com/ask.

• 1:07Dr. John Delony?

  And check this out, this upcoming fall, my favorite event I'm a part of. We just did the Valentine's Day weekend and it was off the hook. It's my favorite event that I'm a part of. It's called the Money and Marriage Getaway. It's a weekend retreat here in Nashville, Tennessee. It's a marriage retreat. Y'all get on the planes, on the buses, on the planes, trains and automobiles, get to Nashville. It's a weekend with me and my buddy Rachel Cruz and a couple of special guests that we bring in because Nashville's kind of a rad city for that. And listen, three days of laughter, hard conversations, often some tears, intentional time together, lots of practical teaching. And the best part about it is if you leave the Money and Marriage Retreat without your

• 1:49Dr. John Delony?

  question answered, we cap it to just 600 couples or so.

• 1:55Dr. John Delony?

  If you leave without your question answered, that's on you. The whole purpose is getting access. You can, you can listen to the show, you can read blog articles, you can read my books. This event is about being able to look me in the eye and say, okay, but yeah, but what about my situation? And we're going to get your questions answered. Join us November 6th through 8th, 2025. You can go to ramsaysolutions.com/events. Get them quick. It sells out all the time. We've already sold a huge chunk of tickets for next fall. Get on it, get on it, get on it. All right, let's go out to Jackson, Wyoming, one of my favorite places in the world and talk to Ryan. Hey, Ryan, what's up?

• 2:33Speaker 00

  Hey, John, how are you?

• 2:34Dr. John Delony?

  I'm doing all right, brother. How about you?

• 2:37Speaker 00

  I've been a lot better.

• 2:39Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let me know what's up.

• 2:42Speaker 00

  I, I'm trying to save my marriage after finding out that my wife had a three-month affair with her boss.

• 2:49Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, man.

• 2:50Speaker 00

  And

• 2:51Dr. John Delony?

  I'm sorry.

• 2:51Speaker 00

  I, I don't know what to do.

• 2:56Dr. John Delony?

  I'm sorry that happened, man.

• 2:59Speaker 00

  Me too.

• 3:02Dr. John Delony?

  Have you said that out loud before?

• 3:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, I told a couple of close friends.

• 3:07Dr. John Delony?

  How'd that go?

• 3:10Speaker 00

  It went well. They're supportive.

• 3:13Speaker 00

  I don't think they fully understand why I want to try to save it.

• 3:20Dr. John Delony?

  So I want to, I want to start the conversation this way and then we'll dig into what happened.

• 3:25Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 3:28Dr. John Delony?

  You can only save your part of it.

• 3:33Dr. John Delony?

  And she might not want to save it.

• 3:37Dr. John Delony?

  And I think sometimes after somebody cheats on us, we think that we, it's all our fault. And so we need to do a bunch of stuff differently. Infidelity almost never happens in a vacuum, right? I don't like to use the word fault, but there's usually a world that's created between two people. Not always, but often. So you can quote unquote, try to work on your part. But I don't want you to think you're a personal failure if this thing doesn't get held together because she didn't want to hold it together.

• 4:08Speaker 00

  I've, I've been more okay with that lately.

• 4:12Dr. John Delony?

  Good, awesome.

• 4:13Speaker 00

  I've gotten to the point where I am, I know I'm gonna be okay if this ends.

• 4:17Dr. John Delony?

  Well, it's okay to not be okay, right?

• 4:21Speaker 00

  Well, yeah, that would take time.

• 4:23Dr. John Delony?

  There you go, there you go. Alright, so what happened? Tell me what happened.

• 4:27Speaker 00

  Um, over the past year or so, we've been married about three years now. And this last year's been really hard dealing with, um, my wife has been dealing with a lack of attraction towards me over the last year.

• 4:40Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 4:43Speaker 00

  She says that I am overwhelming, uh, in my desire. She says that I, I give her too much and that she instinctively pulls back. Um, we've been dealing with that for the last year and honestly, we got to the point where we were wondering if, uh, we were wondering if she was asexual or, you know, trying to figure that out. Um, and then at work, she-

• 5:09Dr. John Delony?

  Asexual what? She just lacked desire?

• 5:12Speaker 00

  She lacked desire. Um, and I, I was trying everything to, to reboot it and nothing was working.

• 5:21Speaker 00

  And then at work, she felt attraction towards this other man and she explored it and turned into a three-month affair.

• 5:32Dr. John Delony?

  How long did the, did the emotional affair begin? Because here's what I, I'm hearing happened. For a year, she told you, "I'm not attracted to you. I don't feel this about you. You're overwhelming me. All you want to do is have sex with me. Um, I just want to lay here and cuddle. I don't, I just want to go do my own thing. You're bothering me. You're smothering me." And so this whole year, you've been trying to figure out what you were doing wrong.

• 6:01Dr. John Delony?

  What she was telling you is she's uncomfortable in her own skin and her own house and she's found it elsewhere. She's found that aliveness that starts with a spark, that starts with a, oh, this one's safe because this guy's married, this guy's my boss and I don't have to go home and actually look in the mirror and deal with me. And so it's fun to have a conversation, it's fun to be a little extra flirty, it's fun to make little funny notes, you know, because she has accessed his calendar, all that kind of stuff, that turns into, hey, you want to meet for a drink?

• 6:35Dr. John Delony?

  Does that sound familiar?

• 6:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, they were friends for a while at work. But, and I found out in stages, she lied to me about, pretty severely. Right before Christmas, she told me that she had feelings for him and she basically told me that it was an emotional affair. And then I found notes that they'd written back and forth, that were pretty explicit. And then I found more details and eventually it all came out and I, at this point, I am confident that I know everything, but it

• 7:18Speaker 00

  was a battle to drag it out. I think that it was genuinely that they were, they were good friends, they were working together really closely and then, right around August of last year, she, I think she found out that he found her attractive, she felt something and she pursued it. That continued until early November. And then I found out about it around Christmas and

• 8:00Speaker 00

  we've been really struggling. We're basically taking our marriage a week at a time right now.

• 8:06Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 8:10Speaker 00

  She's, therapy, she's gone to two appointments, she has a third appointment today. I just got my insurance back and I am about to start looking for a good therapist.

• 8:27Dr. John Delony?

  Why do you want to save this marriage? Or let me ask you, how can I help?

• 8:34Speaker 00

  So I've, both of us love each other a lot. There's a lot of love between us. We care about each other deeply, but we're dealing with the lack of attraction on her side. We're dealing with the fact that I want more than she does. We're dealing with the fact that, I don't know. It seems like we want different things, but we both love each other deeply. And I want to save this marriage. I love her more than I've loved anyone else in my life.

• 9:06Speaker 00

  But I don't know if those differences and things that we are dealing with can be overcome, or if it's worth fighting for.

• 9:16Speaker 00

  So I need someone to tell me if it's worth fighting for, or if I should try to find happiness elsewhere.

• 9:27Dr. John Delony?

  Well, I mean, I think happiness is inside your guts right now.

• 9:33Speaker 00

  You help me find it?

• 9:35Dr. John Delony?

  Well, I mean, there's so many layers here.

• 9:42Dr. John Delony?

  You have bought into a story about how she suddenly found you unattractive. You've bought into a story about, your marriage is full of love, and you're crazy about each other. You've bought into a story that she was just good buddies with somebody who found her attractive, and she just kind of goofed up.

• 10:06Dr. John Delony?

  All those stories are creating this context where you're suffocating, and you're, it's tough to hear.

• 10:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:22Dr. John Delony?

  And I, I, again, you and I could talk for five hours on this deal, probably for five different weeks. In many of the situations when I've had a very similar conversation with somebody, when you dig down to the root of it, you're a good man, and she finds safety in you. And she has-

• 10:41Speaker 00

  You're a really good man.

• 10:42Dr. John Delony?

  She has absolutely no idea how to practice or create desire and novelty and romance and eros. And so what she does is she doesn't chase joy, she doesn't chase stability, she chases excitement.

• 10:58Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 10:58Dr. John Delony?

  Aliveness. And that is a fire that can never, it's all consuming. That's how you end up doing something, and that's like, you know, let's just go read the YouTube headings on this show. That's how you end up in crazy situations, when you're always chasing, um, unbounded, and what I'm, like, and I'll come back to what that means, unbounded excitement, aliveness. Seeking aliveness is amazing. It's the same as spending money. Spending money can be fun. You can, money gives you options, it gives you resources, it gives you access

• 11:37Dr. John Delony?

  to really cool shiny things. But just unbounded spending creates huge deficits that ultimately end you. Right? And so what she's, it sounds like you are floating in the ocean, and she just keeps saying, I gotta swim over here because it's all you, it's all because of you, it's all because of you, and you're such a good man, you keep going back to the mirror saying, okay, what can I do, what can I do, what can I do? And I'm afraid if this marriage ends with what she has told you about you, about how your lack of attractiveness, about your lack of desire, your, your essence is too much, that part of the reason you want to hang on to this thing so bad is because what she has said about you is so personal.

• 12:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:23Dr. John Delony?

  And what I'll tell you is-

• 12:24Speaker 00

  You hit me on the head.

• 12:25Dr. John Delony?

  She's, she has put you in a very unfair position. Because if this thing goes south, your identity is in ash.

• 12:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:39Dr. John Delony?

  Because your wife has said, "No, no, no, it's absolutely you. It's the way you look. It's the way you are. It's the way you try to love me." Dude, nobody can come back, nobody can hold that weight. That's too heavy.

• 12:54Dr. John Delony?

  Do you get what I'm saying?

• 12:56Speaker 00

  So what do I do?

• 12:59Dr. John Delony?

  I think you gotta call somebody today. And here's the deal, I'll, I'm gonna hook you up with three months with BetterHelp right now. So you can at least talk to somebody today.

• 13:08Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, and I think you need to see somebody in person in your local area, but I'll get you hooked up today.

• 13:13Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 13:15Dr. John Delony?

  And if you haven't wept, let me put it this way, the marriage you had is officially 1,000% over. Okay? It's over. There was too much lying.

• 13:25Speaker 00

  I'm lucky enough to know that.

• 13:26Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, good. The question is, do you and her want to sit down and make it work?

• 13:33Dr. John Delony?

  Now, here's what love sounds like. Love's look, sounds like, love looks like.

• 13:40Dr. John Delony?

  Your partner gains 20 pounds or 50 pounds, and I still love you deeply. And I'm still attracted to you as a person, and I love you enough to say, "I'm worried about your health."

• 13:52Dr. John Delony?

  Or, "Hey, don't wear those jeans anymore." Or as my wife told me the other night, "I look like a Backstreet Boy." Because my jeans were real, were real tight, and I tried to blame the jeans. It was not the jeans' fault. It was me. It was me, right?

• 14:05Dr. John Delony?

  Or love looks like, do people get zits? Do people get bad haircuts? And people get skin cancer and have to have big chunks of their nose taken. Like, love looks like those things.

• 14:17Dr. John Delony?

  In attractiveness for sure matters. Anyone who says it doesn't is lying.

• 14:25Dr. John Delony?

  But this idea that somebody is gonna, you see, I hope you hear what, what, what, those feelings you have are right. She has blamed your entire essence

• 14:38Dr. John Delony?

  on the falling out of part of this marriage, and, and I want you to let that go. She made choices, man.

• 14:47Dr. John Delony?

  You're a good man. Is that right?

• 14:50Speaker 00

  I'm a great man.

• 14:51Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, I want you to exhale in that. I want you to go to the mirror when we get off the phone in your bathroom, once you've closed the door. I want you to put your fist in your chest, and I want you to look yourself in the eyes and say the words, "I love this man."

• 15:05Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 15:06Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 15:06Dr. John Delony?

  I want you to feel it. I want you to drop your shoulders. I want you to say, "I love this man." Now, do you have crap you need to work on?

• 15:13Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 15:14Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. What is it she finds unattractive about you?

• 15:19Speaker 00

  I'm a little bit on the messy side.

• 15:22Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 15:23Speaker 00

  I...

• 15:26Speaker 00

  I am extremely empathetic, and that I think causes me to

• 15:35Speaker 00

  appear unconfident a lot.

• 15:40Speaker 00

  I also have been through three job losses in the last year.

• 15:44Dr. John Delony?

  So this is about...

• 15:44Speaker 00

  One, that I quit a bad job. I got laid off. Um, I...

• 15:53Dr. John Delony?

  She doesn't respect you.

• 15:54Speaker 00

  My confidence is... She doesn't respect me.

• 15:57Dr. John Delony?

  That's it. And I don't mean that in the, like, traditional macho. That's not what I mean.

• 16:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:07Dr. John Delony?

  We gotta start there. Because you can't stay married, you can't stay connected and love someone who just thinks you're a loser. And maybe the word she's using, "unattracted to you," maybe that's the essence she's talking about. And let's get to the bottom of that.

• 16:26Dr. John Delony?

  You're a good man.

• 16:29Dr. John Delony?

  Do you have things to work on? For sure. Can you get less messy? Yes, of course. Jeez Louise.

• 16:37Dr. John Delony?

  Does it suck getting laid off, quitting a job, and then finding yourself... Yes, it does. Does that make it hard on a household? Yes, it does.

• 16:49Dr. John Delony?

  If you're only to sit down and decide if we're gonna stay together, right now you've got some healing to do because you have some scars on your heart.

• 16:59Dr. John Delony?

  And the woman you want to reconnect with and rebuild with is the one who put them there.

• 17:05Dr. John Delony?

  Sorry, my brother. Sorry. Have her call the show. I'd love to talk to her.

• 17:12Dr. John Delony?

  I have a feeling she's got a story to tell too. We'll be right back.

• 17:17Dr. John Delony?

  This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. You've probably heard people talk about different kinds of flags and friendships and romantic relationships. You've got red flags and green flags and beige flags. Listen, yes, it can be helpful to look for relationship patterns or unsafe behaviors. But if you ask me, all these flag labels can distract from what's really important when you're trying to find a lasting relationship. What's really important are your values and your potential romantic partner's values. And whether both of you are willing to wake up every day and choose to honor each other's values. But when you grow up in challenging environments, or given how we are all bombarded with everyone else's values all day, every day, it can be tough to even know what are my values?

• 18:02Dr. John Delony?

  What is important to me in a relationship? And how will I show up to honor myself and love my partner? Forget all the different flags on someone else. Instead, ask yourself, how can I learn what I value? Therapy can help you figure out your values, help you learn for what you're looking for in relationships, and then help you decide your boundaries and non-negotiables. If you're thinking about starting therapy, try BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy that works with your schedule. To get started, you just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. So whether you're dating, you're married, or you're building a friendship, or you're just working on yourself, give it a shot with BetterHelp.

• 18:46Dr. John Delony?

  Visit betterhelp.com/deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, dot com slash deloney.

• 18:57Dr. John Delony?

  All right, I've got to tell you, I love Organifi. I love them. But I also get that some folks are skeptical about Organifi and their whole food powders. Are they worth it? Listen, I get it. If any of you are still on the fence about green juice and red juice powders, or Organifi in general, or you just want a simple way to try Organifi out, I've got the perfect solution, the Organifi Starter Kit. It's like if Organifi released a greatest hits album, but without the obligatory lame live tracks. In the Organifi Starter Kit, you get seven green juice travel packs, which include your daily dose of detoxifying superfoods to boost your immune system, reduce stress, and feel good from the inside out.

• 19:39Dr. John Delony?

  You also get seven red juice travel packs loaded with whole food goodness and antioxidants. It's an early morning and an afternoon pick-me-up without the jitters of caffeine for a natural energy boost that keeps you focused and feeling great. But that's not all. You also get a full month's supply of essential magnesium capsules, great for muscle recovery, promoting relaxation, and supporting heart health. And to make mixing your juices even easier, the Starter Kit comes with an Organifi shaker bottle. When I started using Organifi, I noticed a difference within the first week, and I think you will too. Right now, you can save 20% on the Starter Kit at organifi.com/deloney with promo code DELONY. This kit is the best way to enjoy three Organifi products on the go, whether you're at the

• 20:23Dr. John Delony?

  office, running errands, or hitting the gym. Go to O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I, organifi.com/deloney, and use code DELONY for 20% off their Starter Kit and everything else on their site today.

• 20:39Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's go, literally, like, five blocks over, right down the street in Franklin, Tennessee, and talk to Stephanie. Hey Stephanie, what's up?

• 20:46Speaker 02

  Hey, Dr. John, how are you?

• 20:48Dr. John Delony?

  I'm so good, how are you?

• 20:50Speaker 02

  I'm doing well, thank you. I mean, I'm calling you, but I'm doing good.

• 20:54Dr. John Delony?

  Excellent. What's up?

• 20:56Speaker 02

  All right. Well, um, first, I want to say thank you to you and George for the public service that you guys did at Danies a few weeks ago.

• 21:04Dr. John Delony?

  Did you come? You came?

• 21:06Speaker 02

  I was there.

• 21:06Dr. John Delony?

  No way!

• 21:08Speaker 02

  I was there and it was awesome. Y'all were amazing.

• 21:11Dr. John Delony?

  Dude, that, you have no idea how, that makes my soul feel good. Thank you so much. That's the most nervous I have been. Um, for those of y'all listening, me and my buddy George Campbell, um, we co-host another radio show together, but we both called each other's bluff. We speak for a living, but we went to a tiny little, uh, comedy club here in Nashville and just did a comedy set. It's the most nervous I've been, maybe ever, ever. And, uh, dude, I can't believe you came. Thank you for coming, Stephanie. That means the world to me. We're gonna run it back in March, so I can't wait.

• 21:43Speaker 02

  Oh, good. Good to know. I'll try to be there.

• 21:46Dr. John Delony?

  All right. Fantastic. All right. So how can I help you? You've made my whole day, so now I owe you one. What's up?

• 21:51Speaker 02

  Okay. Good deal. So I'm gonna give you a little bit of a backstory. I'll try to make it quick, and then if you need more, just let me know.

• 21:58Dr. John Delony?

  You got it.

• 21:59Speaker 02

  Um, okay. Good deal. So, um, about 10 years ago, currently I'm not married, I am divorced, but 10 years ago, I had, um, I was a homeschooling military wife and I had five kids at the time. And we had moved to a new duty station. I, um, had signed up at a homeschool co-op and very quickly made one of the dearest friends I've ever had in my entire life. And she was my ride-or-die, call-at-2 a.m. type friend. We did everything together. Um, sometimes the dads would join in, but usually the stuff we did was during the day, so it was usually us and the kids. And because

• 22:39Speaker 02

  we were military, we quickly moved, but she and I would keep in touch. And fast forward to about four years ago, um, she got a cancer diagnosis. And then shortly after that, um, I actually filed for divorce. Um, it was a very abusive marriage. And so our grief journeys kinda overlapped a little bit. And, um, early last summer,

• 23:08Speaker 02

  Um, actually, the day after my divorce was finalized, she lost her battle with cancer.

• 23:13Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, my golly, dude.

• 23:14Speaker 02

  So, talk about a range of emotions there.

• 23:17Dr. John Delony?

  I'm telling you. Well, it just seems like there was one big emotion. My God.

• 23:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, it was, it was a hard 24 hours.

• 23:25Dr. John Delony?

  24 hours?

• 23:26Speaker 02

  Well, just of shock, I guess.

• 23:28Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, there you go. I was gonna say, geez.

• 23:31Speaker 02

  No, it was a lot more than 24 hours.

• 23:33Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 23:34Speaker 02

  Um, okay, so fast forward to a few weeks ago. Um, I was, I got a Facebook friend request from her husband, who had recently gotten on Facebook. And so I accepted it. We started talking and

• 23:49Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, yeah.

• 23:52Speaker 02

  Oh, no, you already know where I'm going.

• 23:54Dr. John Delony?

  Brady Bunch action, yes.

• 23:57Speaker 02

  Okay, so, um, it started out as he just wanted someone to kind of sit with him in his grief. And I was like, yes, I'm all in, 100%. So then it kind of shifted to, I started thinking, okay, is, is he interested in something more than just talking? Like, what, what's going on? So instead of mulling over it in my head, I thought, you know what? I'm just gonna ask him and dive right in. So

• 24:25Dr. John Delony?

  Hey, hold on, Stephanie. Can I just applaud you for that?

• 24:30Speaker 02

  Oh, thank you.

• 24:31Dr. John Delony?

  Good God, oh, my. Listen, if, if everybody's listening to the show for five years, would just, or for four years, would just take that away. Like, I'm an adult. I don't want to sit here and make up stories for the next seven months. I'm like, I'm just gonna ask you, do you like me? God, Stephanie, dude, the world would change with that. But, so, high five to you. So you just asked him, and of course, he was like, "Oh, yeah." Is that right?

• 24:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, actually.

• 24:58Dr. John Delony?

  Sweet.

• 24:59Speaker 02

  Yes. Oh, gosh, okay. Um,

• 25:02Dr. John Delony?

  So did your heart start beating fast? Did you, did you yell out, "Me too, oh, me too"?

• 25:07Speaker 02

  My heart did start beating fast, but I was also freaking out like, oh crap, me too.

• 25:13Dr. John Delony?

  Oh.

• 25:13Speaker 02

  Like, oh no.

• 25:14Dr. John Delony?

  God, sweet.

• 25:15Speaker 02

  So, um.

• 25:16Dr. John Delony?

  How many kids does he have?

• 25:17Speaker 02

  He has four, and I have six.

• 25:20Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, you're like Brady Bunch, "Hold my beer, dude." We got.

• 25:22Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 25:23Dr. John Delony?

  We got a dozen. Sheesh.

• 25:27Speaker 02

  Um, okay, so here's my question. Obviously, like, if we continue on, um, I don't want to officially do anything till we've passed the year mark of my divorce and his wife's passing, especially for the kids' sakes. Like, I don't want to mention anything to them, um.

• 25:48Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, can I just tell you one thing right now?

• 25:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:52Dr. John Delony?

  Take a huge, deep breath.

• 25:56Dr. John Delony?

  Exhale.

• 25:57Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 25:58Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, listen to these two words and imprint them on your soul, okay?

• 26:02Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 26:03Dr. John Delony?

  Slow down.

• 26:06Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 26:07Dr. John Delony?

  And listen, we thought we're, you thought you were past this when you're not 17 anymore.

• 26:13Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:14Dr. John Delony?

  It all comes back when you start dating again.

• 26:18Dr. John Delony?

  Just slow down.

• 26:19Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 26:19Dr. John Delony?

  This is an amazing, awesome, cool moment. And my guess is because you're a great mom and because you're just you, you went all the way to the end, and how are we gonna explain our wedding, and what's our wedding gonna look like, and how are we gonna put 10 beds in this house, right?

• 26:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, actually.

• 26:39Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, exactly. So, this is a rad, cool, scary, exciting turn of events. Let it be that.

• 26:52Speaker 02

  How do we purposely walk through that? Because I am about going through it slow, actually, and I've, I told him that last week.

• 27:03Dr. John Delony?

  Awesome.

• 27:04Speaker 02

  Um, and.

• 27:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, I guess I just wanna know the steps that we do need to take. And we're actually meeting, I haven't seen him in like 10 years. And we're gonna meet halfway in a few days and just be around each other.

• 27:21Dr. John Delony?

  I bet you are.

• 27:24Dr. John Delony?

  That was awesome. That was a great joke.

• 27:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, um, yeah, no, that was good. But just have intentional time together and so I would just, yeah, I would love some, some advice from you on that.

• 27:35Dr. John Delony?

  Awesome. Okay, so I want you to spend some time by yourself defining what go slow means.

• 27:42Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 27:43Dr. John Delony?

  Does go slow mean physical? We're gonna get together, but I'm not gonna kiss you yet too soon? Or is it mean like, oh, you, like, you decide, what does go slow mean when it comes to

• 27:55Dr. John Delony?

  physical intimacy? What does go slow mean? When it comes to

• 28:02Dr. John Delony?

  being seen in public? What does it, what does go slow mean when it, when it turns to like phone calls, writing, text messages, letter writing, telling the kids? Considering like, like, what is, I want you to define go slow because if you don't, you're gonna have this idea of go slow and he's gonna have a picture of go slow and your pictures are not gonna match.

• 28:26Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 28:26Dr. John Delony?

  And so what you're gonna do is you're gonna feel this weird angst and frustration and annoyance with each other. And really, you both want the same thing, you just didn't align your pictures up.

• 28:36Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 28:37Dr. John Delony?

  Cause he might say, yeah, I wanna go slow, I wanna make out, but I wanna go slow when it comes to like, are we gonna get married? And you might think, no, I wanna go slow, like, you can hold my hand, like, right, so you end up wanting the same thing, sort of, but you end up just flying by each other in the night. And it's just about being clear on that, okay? So that's number one. The second thing, and this is me being a bubble burster, is that okay?

• 28:58Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 28:58Dr. John Delony?

  Just because it's familiar, doesn't mean it's right.

• 29:04Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 29:05Dr. John Delony?

  And this might be the safest, most familiar step into a terrifying new world of dating with six kids.

• 29:15Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, and that doesn't make it wrong, that doesn't make it bad, that doesn't mean y'all can't have a great few months of just hanging out and dating each other.

• 29:26Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:27Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And this is, you're his first safest wandering out into the world as a single dad with four kids, right?

• 29:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:39Dr. John Delony?

  So just remember, familiar is gonna feel safe, but that doesn't mean it's right long-term, because in addition to familiar, you're gonna want novelty, and you're gonna want new, and you're gonna want adventure, and if you try to bridge houses, y'all are gonna get plenty of that stuff, right? But don't mistake comfort for, or as the old Kamen's call line says, don't mistake happiness for blessings. Just because it's happy and it all feels good, doesn't mean like, dude, we're not gonna get married. All right, here is, um, let me try to say it, I'm trying to think of the right way to say this in a non-clinical nerd way.

• 30:24Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, man, how old are your kids?

• 30:27Speaker 02

  They range from seven to 18.

• 30:29Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, jeez Louise on a stick.

• 30:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, for real.

• 30:33Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so your kids are gonna have all, like, all kind, six different thoughts about this, that's not true, they're gonna have a thousand different thoughts about this. Okay? And anything for, especially a teenager, if you've got kids from 12 to 18, 12 to 25, really?

• 30:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:53Dr. John Delony?

  It's very, it's age-appropriate, it's developmentally appropriate, that they can't hold ideological discomfort without giving it to somebody else to hold, their kids.

• 31:06Dr. John Delony?

  Okay? What does that mean? That means an 18-year-old is gonna see you potentially six months from now, holding hands with another person, maybe somebody that they've met peripherally, and they're gonna feel all kind of weird about it, and they're gonna have to blame you for that discomfort, because they can't hold the tension of, oh, my dad is really gone. Or mom and dad, the fantasy, they're really, really not getting back together.

• 31:32Dr. John Delony?

  Or in this other guys like, oh mom, so just be prepared for if you have an angry 14 year old, that doesn't mean that y'all are doing anything wrong. That means they're 14 and there's a ton of feelings and they can't hold them. It goes back to that word sturdy that I talk about all the time that I got from Becky Kennedy. Like is we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna make our decisions and we're gonna move forward. So what does that mean? There's not a, there's not a stress free way of introducing all of this to your kids if it ends up getting there.

• 32:01Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 32:02Dr. John Delony?

  It's just gonna be uncomfortable and weird and discombobulated and you two are gonna have to continue to work on your relationship and work on it and work on it and work on it and work on it and you're gonna have 10 different kids who are blending, it's just gonna be chaos and just expect it. So I guess that'd be the last thing is if y'all pursue this, right now y'all feel like teenagers again and that's a fun, exciting feeling, especially after all the hurt y'all both endured. So I'm gonna tell you something crazy, enjoy it. Enjoy the pitter patter, enjoy seeing his texts pop up and you getting excited like you're 15 again, enjoy all of that stuff. It's exciting, it feels alive again, right? And you felt dead in your own skin for a while, fair?

• 32:42Speaker 02

  Very fair.

• 32:43Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, let that aliveness just course through you. Make good grown up choices, right? But enjoy it. And

• 32:53Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 32:54Dr. John Delony?

  Understand y'all are signing up for the craziest roller coaster at the park.

• 33:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:01Dr. John Delony?

  All right? And so just, just know that going into it.

• 33:06Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 33:08Dr. John Delony?

  And last little thing, keep some space for being sad in ways that you didn't imagine.

• 33:22Dr. John Delony?

  And there are little things that will hit you like if you hold hands with him this weekend, you'll look down and really quick in a blink, it won't be your husband's hand, your ex-husband's.

• 33:33Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:34Dr. John Delony?

  He'll look down and it will have different, your fingers will look different than his ex-wife's fingers. It's little bitty things that are both exciting and also catch you off guard. And it just has a little, it's like a, it's like a grief dart that you don't expect. Does that make sense?

• 33:54Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 33:55Dr. John Delony?

  Cool. Alright, so I threw a ton at you. I'm just rattling stuff off here. W- w- w- how's it hitting you? Exciting, cool? Did I just douse cold water on you? Like, tell me what you're feeling.

• 34:05Speaker 02

  No, not at all because um, the last week or so, I've actually been like, oh no, I don't know if this is right. But yet, um, you know, is it my alarms and bells going off because I'm used to so much pain? And, you know, so I've been kinda going back and forth with that and he's actually been very gracious and he's backed off a little bit.

• 34:31Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 34:32Speaker 02

  Um, but we still think it's fair to move, not move forward, but just

• 34:37Dr. John Delony?

  Hang out.

• 34:38Speaker 02

  Continue talking.

• 34:39Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 34:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. And just see, and just have fun and just see what it's, what it's like. Cause this is brand new and it is scary in a lot of ways, but you know, I just, I don't know what's gonna happen and so I'm trying to tell myself to just relax. I'm not committing to anything, um, just by seeing him. It may work out and it may not and that's okay. So everything you said is exactly what I needed to hear.

• 35:12Dr. John Delony?

  Awesome.

• 35:13Speaker 02

  So thank you.

• 35:14Dr. John Delony?

  Well- If you just go have a great time with your best friend's husband. Which sounded awesome. I hope they clip just that and put that in the teaser. It's gonna make this call be really well on YouTube.

• 35:30Dr. John Delony?

  If y'all choose to just go have a blast,

• 35:34Dr. John Delony?

  that's a weekend well spent.

• 35:37Dr. John Delony?

  If y'all go laugh, tell old stories, he's like, "I knew your husband sucked." And you're like, "This is super weird that I'm holding hands with my best friend who passed away." Like, just put all the weird on the table. There's no reason to hide it. And you are one... God, you're so far ahead of the curve, Stephanie. You're like a hero.

• 35:59Dr. John Delony?

  There's gonna be the weird part, because you know him, and there's gonna be the weird part that you know... I don't know how to say this without just being crass. That he partied with your best friend, right? You'll know all that, right? And there's gonna be those safety alarm bells in your body that says, "Hey, if I let another military man get close to me, he's gonna hurt me like the other guy did."

• 36:20Speaker 02

  Well, thankfully, he's not military.

• 36:22Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, he's not? Okay.

• 36:23Speaker 02

  No, that is a plus right there.

• 36:25Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, sweet. Okay. Alright, so we're getting out... But expect those alarm bells to go off. And vice versa.

• 36:34Dr. John Delony?

  He's gonna have that GPS pin in his soul that says, "She make us sick and pass away."

• 36:42Dr. John Delony?

  Right? So, one of my closest, closest buddies and mentors, his wife lost her first husband with just an out-of-the-blue health experience. And I just remember him, when they were newlyweds, she was extra attentive, as she should be, right?

• 37:01Dr. John Delony?

  And so, just expect that weirdness and that awkwardness. And I think what I love about you, Stephanie, is you're so far ahead of the curve. You just put it on the table. "Hey, do you like me? Is that why you're Facebooking me, you old man with a bunch of kids?" Like, and so you just putting it on the table. "I feel weird." Or, "My ex-husband used to do that right before he would scream and yell and punch a hole through the sheet rock." And I'm just putting it on the table. And so, maybe that's part of the deal. Y'all agree, early on, we're gonna have as much fun as we can. We're gonna align our pictures and words about what going slow looks like, what physical intimacy looks like, what being weird looks like. And we're gonna put all the awkward on the table all the time. We're just gonna make a commitment to that. And then...

• 37:43Dr. John Delony?

  Man, listen, if y'all get married in Franklin, Tennessee, I will go to that wedding. I'll go to that one. So, thank you so much for the call, Stephanie. You call anytime and swing on down the road one day and we got free coffee and cookies out here in the lobby. And I'd love to just come out there and give you a high five.

• 37:59Dr. John Delony?

  Blessings to you on this new adventure. I wish you guys the absolute best and make good choices, Stephanie. That was awesome. We'll be right back.

• 38:11Dr. John Delony?

  I want to tell you about Cozy Earth, makers of incredible sheets, bedding and bath linens. It's almost time, "The sun will come out tomorrow." It's so soon. Spring is almost here. And Cozy Earth has a Spring into Comfort Sale going on right now. It's a great time to buy their bamboo sheet sets and their bath sheets. I love their bed sheets and their towels. They're giant and soft and they don't get all thin and crusty after going through the laundry. They are their best. And their sheet sets are soft and breathable and they keep me and my family cool and comfortable all night long. And like I said, you're gonna feel the quality of their bath sheets right away. They're so huge. Don't even call them towels. They call

• 38:54Dr. John Delony?

  them bath sheets. They're actually more like a bath comforter. Listen, it doesn't matter what they're called. They're just amazing. And I also got a huge Cozy Earth weighted blanket that my whole family piles under. It's bye bye for my anxiety. Cozy Earth is my go-to and it can be your go-to for building a sanctuary in your home so you can feel safe, relaxed and ready to take on whatever comes next for you and your family. Remember, Cozy Earth's Spring into Comfort Sale is happening right now with exclusive savings for you watching or listening to this show. Forty percent off everything. That's forty

• 39:30Dr. John Delony?

  percent off. Visit cozylearth.com/deloney and use code DELONY. That's C-O-Z-Y. Cozylearth.com/deloney for forty percent off. Go check it out.

• 39:44Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's go out to San Diego, California and talk to Kevin. Hey Kevin, what's up, man?

• 39:50Speaker 03

  Hi, how are you?

• 39:51Dr. John Delony?

  I'm doing all right, brother. What's going on?

• 39:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, uh, so, um, okay, so I have, I, okay, so I have this dilemma that I have. So, um, my ex-wife, whom I've been estranged for for about four years, um, she like, um, she has reached out to her cousins that, uh, she's, she has a stage four cancer and she would like to reconnect with me and my son.

• 40:23Dr. John Delony?

  Does she have visitation with you? I- i- is the son a kid y'all share together?

• 40:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, I have, we have one son.

• 40:30Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 40:31Speaker 03

  Um, I have primary custody. In fact, she has, uh, she, she does have super supervision, supervised visitation rights, but she hasn't used that in quite a while.

• 40:45Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 40:46Speaker 03

  And in fact, she and I live in two, on the opposite sides of the country.

• 40:50Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 40:50Speaker 03

  And, and all of a sudden I hear from one of her cousins whom, like I still talk to this day, you know, that she's really sick and she would like to reconnect. And I, and to be honest,

• 41:02Dr. John Delony?

  So you don't believe her, do you? You don't believe him?

• 41:08Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, she said, she did, and she said and did a lot of things like which made me divorce her.

• 41:15Dr. John Delony?

  Hold on, forget all that for a second. Right this sec, because here's the deal. If your ex, let me say it this way. If your son's mom is gonna be dead in three months from state, what kind of cancer is it? Are they telling you?

• 41:30Speaker 03

  Pancreatic.

• 41:31Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, stage four pancreatic cancer. She's got less than six months.

• 41:36Dr. John Delony?

  If she truly has stage four pancreatic cancer and she will not be with us anymore after six months from now. Any, any, man, I'm gonna get myself in trouble here. Almost any self-respecting dad would get in a car and drive across the country and let his young son see mom before she dies. The other side of that is, I don't think you believe her.

• 42:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't.

• 42:03Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 42:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't.

• 42:04Dr. John Delony?

  So just, just own that. She deceptive?

• 42:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, yes.

• 42:08Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. She have, does she struggle with substance abuse?

• 42:11Speaker 03

  Um, not substance, um, but she's done a lot, she's done a lot of things recently.

• 42:22Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So what's your question for me?

• 42:26Speaker 03

  So my son, he's five.

• 42:30Dr. John Delony?

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:32Speaker 03

  Um, he was about one, he was like physically, physically speaking, like he was only one and a half when he last saw her.

• 42:42Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 42:43Speaker 03

  The thing is, like after that, like we split off, like she didn't even, she didn't even, um, do the visitations anymore, she moved to another state and we just didn't get in touch ever since.

• 42:57Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So what is your son, is your son asking to see her again?

• 43:01Speaker 03

  No, like, my son doesn't even remember her.

• 43:05Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 43:06Speaker 03

  Like, he kinda says, like, I mean, there are situations, like, do I, I mean, where's my mom? And I'm like, and I, and I tell her, well, she's away, or, yeah, I mean, that's the, I mean, I can't tell, tell, I can't tell him right now she's dead, you know, because that's not true.

• 43:21Dr. John Delony?

  No, but what you can't tell her is, your mom's very, very sick and she, she needed to, she decided to step away, or she needed to step away. But I wanna see her. She's very, very sick and, and, and can't be seen right now.

• 43:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:32Dr. John Delony?

  That's what we tell a five-year-old.

• 43:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:35Dr. John Delony?

  Because by the way, any, any mom who doesn't wanna see her five-year-old son is, is struggling with something, right?

• 43:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, the thing is, she wasn't, she didn't have any, um, drug or substance, like, the last time I met her. The thing is, like, we had a very acrimonious split, um, where basically, like, and this is back, and this is in California where I got everything.

• 44:04Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, but listen, I, this is five years ago, I don't, I mean, four years ago, I mean, you had a split, you had a split. I guess, let me, let me say it this way, I don't know, I, I still don't really fully understand what you're asking, but let me just say this. If you find out, and by the way, I would not take, um, a comment from a cousin, right? I would, if she wants to reach out, and you have ways of confirming it, or if her attorney or your attorney wants to be notified that she's about to pass away and wants to change the agreement, so y'all can go see each other.

• 44:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:38Dr. John Delony?

  Then, don't be the dad that doesn't let his young son have a photo with his dying mother, okay? And you're gonna have to put back the crap she did to you four years ago, get over yourself. If this is another move in a long line of deceptive things, and dishonest things, and shady things, then you need to go do your due diligence and find out if this is actually real, if this is true, etc. And, I don't know a way to do that without being awkward or asking hard questions.

• 45:09Speaker 03

  Like, you mean, contact her directly? Or, like, or, I don't know, because she ha- she has, like you said, hit stuff, shady, shady stuff, and, and lied.

• 45:23Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 45:24Speaker 03

  Like, she has a history of that. So, for me, yeah.

• 45:28Dr. John Delony?

  Go ahead, for you, what?

• 45:29Speaker 03

  For me, like, I don't know how to, like, I don't know how to, like, validate or verify, you know.

• 45:36Dr. John Delony?

  She hasn't even contacted you, dude.

• 45:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:38Dr. John Delony?

  So, let me put it this way. If I was, if I got a six-month diagnosis, you're gonna be dead in six months, John, and me and my wife didn't live together, the last thing I would do on the planet Earth would be to find a way that I see my kids.

• 45:59Dr. John Delony?

  Period.

• 46:01Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:01Dr. John Delony?

  I wouldn't call a cousin who called to somebody.

• 46:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:06Dr. John Delony?

  Do you know what I'm saying?

• 46:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:08Dr. John Delony?

  Now, maybe she's not well, she doesn't feel welcome, it feels awkward, maybe you tell the cousins, "You have her reach out to me."

• 46:17Dr. John Delony?

  If she wants to see her son, she needs to reach out to me. This is, this, we're talking adult stuff now.

• 46:22Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 46:23Dr. John Delony?

  Okay? And if she can't talk, she can't see, you know, then you can, you can manage that here. But I'm telling you, you don't want to be on the other side of this thing, where, "I thought she was lying," and then she passes away,

• 46:38Dr. John Delony?

  and your son, you have to have that conversation with him, "Yeah, she let me know she was dying, wanted to see you, but nah, I didn't do it."

• 46:46Speaker 03

  Is there a way that I can, I don't know, like, hire a P.I. to kind of like verify?

• 46:52Dr. John Delony?

  I wouldn't, but you can. You can do whatever you want, man.

• 46:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, because, like...

• 46:58Dr. John Delony?

  You can ask to see her medical records. You can ask to go to a doctor's visit with her.

• 47:04Speaker 03

  I haven't, man, I haven't seen her, I haven't seen her in, in, in years, and, and like, there's a reason where I, there's a reason why I, like, I left her and I ghosted her and I great, and like, I graced, I graced on her, whatever that's called.

• 47:23Dr. John Delony?

  I don't know any of those new-fangled gin, gin, y words, whatever you're saying. What, like, what did she do that was so bad?

• 47:32Speaker 03

  Uh, she cheated on me with her ex.

• 47:36Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 47:36Speaker 03

  And, uh...

• 47:38Dr. John Delony?

  And that's the reason to keep a, a, a little boy from her mom?

• 47:44Speaker 03

  She, well, after that, like, she made a, like, she became very vicious. She became very toxic. Uh, she, she tried to do everything in her power to try to get the primary custody, you know, um, basically sue me for abuse, both emotional, physical, emotional and physical.

• 48:07Dr. John Delony?

  Was it all lies?

• 48:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, um...

• 48:11Dr. John Delony?

  Alright, so she's proven unsafe and she's proven to be a person who will go to the ends of the earth to get what she wants, even if it means lying and cheating and ruining somebody else's life?

• 48:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:20Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. I have no, if, if somebody cheats on you, yes, we gotta deal with that relationally. But that's still the mother of your kid. If somebody tries to go to the ends of the earth to get primary custody, fine. Unless they use the kid as a bargaining chip. And then that's when, I rarely get mad, but I get mad when couples do that. But I don't get mad that couples are about to get divorced and they both are terrified to not see their kid very much. I get that totally. Now, we're getting into different layers where in order to see her kid more, she looks at you and makes up lies about you. They're gonna get you in jail, get you fired, get you all those kinds of things and make it to where you can't put food on your table. Yeah, then we got a problem. The relationship is over.

• 49:02Speaker 03

  Between my son and his mom?

• 49:06Dr. John Delony?

  Correct. It's over.

• 49:08Speaker 03

  Okay, okay.

• 49:09Dr. John Delony?

  Like, a caretaker relationship, a friend relationship, a loving interconnected intimate relationship, it's over. She ended it.

• 49:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:19Dr. John Delony?

  Okay? She's made choices repeatedly over the years to not have a relationship with her son. Period. End of story. This isn't about her at this moment. This is about when your son's 19 and he's trying to figure out who he is. Half of him will be you, a good man who worked from home, probably made less money than he was worth because he was working from home, got him through special needs, like, got him the resources that he needed, was really an attentive, caring father. Half of him will be that good man and he'll always know that half of him was this other person.

• 49:58Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 49:59Dr. John Delony?

  And that's the world he's gonna have to inhabit. When I'm thinking ahead to that 14-year-old, to that 17-year-old, to that 25-year-old, I'd rather him have a picture with him smiling next to this woman who he does not know, who's wearing a bandana because her hair's fallen out from her chemo treatments as she's trying to hang on the last few months of her life. I'd rather that.

• 50:30Dr. John Delony?

  Then him look at you from across the table and say, "I could have seen her." "And you kept me from it because you were too dramatic and saying she did shady things." "'Cause you couldn't get over her cheating on you five years ago." "Do you hear what I'm saying?"

• 50:44Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 50:45Dr. John Delony?

  Both of these paths are messy.

• 50:49Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:49Dr. John Delony?

  Both of these paths are gnarly. That's what happened when y'all made a kid. That's what happened when she cheated on you. The whole thing blew up, right? So there's not a stress-free path forward. Every time somebody gets divorced and there's a kid involved, I always tell them, "You're playing a 20-year game now. You're playing a 15-year game now."

• 51:09Dr. John Delony?

  And so, yes, I would. This is me personal. Now, I don't know her. I don't know her backstory. I don't know any of the stuff that she's done to you personally. You do. So you take this with a grain of salt. If somebody had accused me of physical abuse and emotional abuse and tried to call the police and I had to go do it, I probably would not enter their orbit again. Because I would be terrified for not being able to provide for my kid in case they made some more crazy stories up. But, if four and a half or five years ago, somebody did something stupid and they cheated on me with their ex and then yada yada and perched on a pear tree and it got nasty for a bit, but here we are, calls and says, "I'm dying. I'm gonna be dead soon." "Can I see my son?" I would make that happen.

• 51:53Dr. John Delony?

  And it would be awkward and it would be awful. It is not a rekindling. It is not a reintroduction into our lives. It's not renewing relationships. She burnt it. It's over.

• 52:05Dr. John Delony?

  But it would be a gift to this young boy as he becomes an adolescent and becomes an adult and tries to figure out, "Who am I?" Now, if this mom is unsafe, then absolutely not. If this mom is unhinged and untethered and she's wanting to go to the ends of the earth to burn you alive, then no, I would not put myself in harm's way that way. So you're gonna have to make your decision there. You're a good man. You're a good dad. And that little one's lucky to have you. We'll be right back.

• 52:35Dr. John Delony?

  Let's talk about Hallow, the number one prayer and meditation app in the world. It's officially Lent, and Lent is the 40 days leading up to Good Friday and Easter. And Lent is when Christians all over the world commit to a season of fasting from all sorts of things, and they commit themselves to reconnection and remembering, prayer, and even meditation. And right now, Hallow has a challenge going on called "The Way." It's meant to reflect living the way of Jesus, and that means doing hard things that lead to peace, joy, and healing. And throughout Hallow's "The Way," you'll get to hear some incredible stories from people like Jonathan Rumi of The Chosen, Chris Pratt, and Mark Wahlberg. You'll get to participate in experiencing life change yourself. And this is just a tiny bit of what Hallow offers.

• 53:19Dr. John Delony?

  Hallow has a huge catalog of music, guided prayers, meditations, and more. And when you sign up at hallow.com/deloney right now, you'll get three free months, so you're covered all through Lent and beyond. Go check them out at hallow.com/deloney for three free months. That's Hallow, H-A-L-L-O-W dot com slash deloney.

• 53:44Dr. John Delony?

  All right, we are back, and it's time for a Money and Marriage question. This is a live question that somebody asked at the Money Marriage Conference, and I thought it was a good question and wanted to bring it to everybody. So here's the question. "My husband and I are millionaires." Aww.

• 54:06Dr. John Delony?

  This is a common question I get. Just kidding, I don't get this question almost ever. But I do think it's important, so hang with us. "My husband and I are millionaires. We can't seem to agree on a timeline of moving to a different city or a different state. He's more methodical, and I am more spontaneous. How do we move forward?" So, yes, very, very, very few of you listening to this are millionaires, right? Very, very few of you are in this place where we can kind of do whatever we want, whenever we want, and we're fighting on how to do that, slow or fast, right? But almost everybody listening here... Has, they want to get a new car. They want to move schools. They, um, want, one wants their kid to go to a state school and wants their kid to go to a fancy private school.

• 54:51Dr. John Delony?

  Um, trying to figure out, do we just make the two boys share a room or do we go get another, whole other house? Or do we, do we, should we take out a HELOC and, uh, build a garage apartment, right? And one wants to move fast, one wants to move slow, whatever. By the way, don't take out HELOCs, it's so stupid to leverage your home for a credit card. Anyway, that's another, that's another conversation, different show. He's more methodical and I'm more spontaneous. Here's what I always want to get when people say, I am this way and you're that way. You're identifying with a way of solving problems that your body feels keeps you safe. Some people feel that they can best solve problems when they go very, very slow and

• 55:35Dr. John Delony?

  they think it through. And sometimes that thinking it through and going slow becomes a way to procrastinate, to not make the final decision. Others, um, this is more like me, are like hyper spontaneous and it's their way of not having to think things through. We're just gonna go, we're gonna figure it out when we get there. And both of those are ways that we keep ourselves safe. And so I want to get to the underlying question. Beneath the, I just need some more time, I need some more data, or let's just go, let's just pack up and move. What's beneath that? I'm bored here. I need some adventure in my life and I want you to come with me.

• 56:18Dr. John Delony?

  Yes, I know we have a whole bunch of money, but I worked really hard and I kind of love this house and I love our little neighborhood church and I love being able to ride my bike to the grocery store even though I'm 62. I don't know that I want to move and I know that we had dreams of moving to the mountains or moving to the beach, but I kind of like our just Midwest town.

• 56:39Dr. John Delony?

  What if now that we're millionaires? What if now that we paid off our last credit card? What if now that our marriage is on a good, in good footing? We decided to get real, real fancy vacations, do fancy vacations a couple of times a year? What would life look like if we didn't have to move? Those are deeper than, we can't agree on a timeline. I want to get to those questions because then we get into the grief. I don't want to move. And I told you I did, but I don't. Oh my gosh, I hate this town. I wanted to move. I've always wanted to move. I want some adventure. I want some, so then you can start solving the actual problem. All right, if we're not going to move, what would not moving look like? And what would adventure look like?

• 57:22Dr. John Delony?

  Or, okay, we are going to move, but I gotta stay connected to some of my close friends here. Making friends in your 50s or 40s or 60s is the worst thing on the planet. And I want to stay connected here, so I'm going to put some money in our account. So here's for instance, when we moved to Tennessee, my wife and I set up a fund for plane tickets to go visit family because both of us are pretty close to our family. We set up plane tickets, like just a small fund, it's not huge or anything, but a small fund that if somebody's parent passed away, I'm going to go to those funerals. Some of my closest friends in Texas, I'm going to go to those funerals. I'm going to have an account for that. So we just built in travel as a part of, we want to stay connected to those folks, but we both think it's right to move.

• 58:04Dr. John Delony?

  And so I want to get to the beneath the timeline question and get to the, how's your body trying to keep you safe during this period of transition in our lives? And here's the final question that I want every couple to ask all the time. How do we want the house to feel when we walk in every day? Do I feel like I don't know what town I'm in? I don't know anybody here. I'm nervous. Do I want to feel like I know everybody here and I'm just comfortable? How do you want this house to feel like? And then you can build a timeline, reverse engineering from that. How do we want this thing to feel? Let's go make that happen. Thanks for the question. Um, there's not a name on here. Oh yeah, they were, that was part of an anonymous question drop in. So there you go. I hope that helps. Hope that helps. Always get to the question behind the question.

• 58:48Dr. John Delony?

  If you're procrastinating, what is not doing the thing? How's that keeping you safe? Love you guys. Bye.