Re-Air: Kel Mitchell: No Mistakes, Just Lessons

In honor of National Suicide Prevention Month, we are revisiting our episode with Kel Mitchell. Kel Mitchell (All That, Kenan & Kel, Good Burger, author of Blessed Mode: 90 Days to Level Up Your Faith) joins us to discuss his early career as a 90’s Nickelodeon star and the major life events that shaped him into a youth pastor and the man of faith he is today. He details his class clown and theatre beginnings, finding his comedy partner in Kenan Thompson, and the impact of the diversity shown on All That. Kel draws comparisons between his childhood in the southside of Chicago where he lost loved ones to gun and gang violence and the trauma young celebrities face in Hollywood. He discusses getting married at an early age and dealing with anxiety stemming from confusion over whether people loved him for his comedy characters or his true self. Kel opens up about his suicide attempt, how his faith led him to pursue a path toward mental wellness, and his journey to becoming a youth pastor. Mayim and Kel consider the mental health impact of living in communities touched by violence and intergenerational trauma. Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BialikBreakdown.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.bialikbreakdown.com/ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube.com/mayimbialik⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/mayimbialik%E2%81%A0 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Mayim Bialik?

  Hi, I'm Mayim Bialik.

• 0:05Jonathan Cohen?

  I'm Jonathan Cohen.

• 0:06Mayim Bialik?

  And welcome to our breakdown. It is National Suicide Prevention Month this September. And in order to honor this month, we want to revisit our episode with a comedian and beloved 90s Nickelodeon star, Kell Mitchell. You probably know him from shows like All That, or Keenan and Kell, or the movie Good Burger. We were really, really blown away. Kell opened up on our podcast about something very, very intimate. His suicide attempt a few years ago and his journey from that time in his life. And how faith has guided him on a path towards mental wellness and his decision to become a youth pastor. We really, really loved this conversation.

• 0:48Mayim Bialik?

  We think it's so special and we hope that people will resonate with some of the insights that he draws on. And it's just a really beautiful episode and we're so grateful we get to bring it to you. Before we do that, we want to remind you to follow us on Substack. Jonathan, tell the folks what they'll find over on Substack.

• 1:04Jonathan Cohen?

  It's a growing community of breakers, people listening to this podcast and reflecting on the ideas. We also share exclusive content there that you can't get anywhere else. Check out Mayim Bialik's Breakdown on Substack.

• 1:18Mayim Bialik?

  And now we hope you enjoy taking a look back at our episode with Kell Mitchell. Break it down. Welcome to Mayim Bialik's Breakdown. It's so nice to meet you.

• 1:27Speaker 02

  It's so nice to meet you. How are you? It's a pleasure.

• 1:31Mayim Bialik?

  We're good. This is, this is very exciting because I, I know a lot about you. There's a lot to know. But the, the, here's the truth.

• 1:43Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:43Mayim Bialik?

  When you started being famous on the television, I was in college. And I was like, I'm just enough older than you that I was not, I didn't have a TV.

• 1:57Jonathan Cohen?

  You weren't watching Nickelodeon?

• 1:59Mayim Bialik?

  I was not watching Nickelodeon. However, I know that you're very, very famous. And one of the things that's amazing about you is like, you've done a million things. Like you've constantly been working.

• 2:14Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:16Mayim Bialik?

  Like that's, I mean, well, I do, I have some questions, you know, I started acting at 11 and then I kind of started regularly working from the time I was 14, but to like 19. And then I took 12 years off, but you didn't, you haven't taken 12 years off. So tell us when you started kind of your child acting career, you know, obviously you became well-known as a teenager, but tell us a little bit, you're, you're from Chicago, correct?

• 2:44Speaker 02

  Yes, I'm from Chicago, South Side of Chicago.

• 2:47Mayim Bialik?

  I was gonna say, what part of Chicago? It's important.

• 2:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I got started in the business in theater and it wasn't a thing of like, I grew up in the family where it was like, oh, you're gonna be a star and you're this star kid and we're gonna get commercials on TV. No, it was, I literally did it for a hobby. It was a, a good hobby that was a positive hobby to do, um, cause my parents tried everything cause I used to be in class like just doing stand-up and so I would get in trouble. And so they were like, we need to get this kid into something. And then I had friends that were on the up and up and then I had friends that weren't. And I was getting to that age where it's like, okay, we gotta find him something. So we tried everything, Kung Fu, uh, guitar lessons, science classes, everything. And, and what like really kicked

• 3:33Speaker 02

  off, uh, was acting. There was a community theater in my hometown and I just fell in love with it. I remember I just took a summer course. I took the summer course cause I got in trouble in summer school. And so my parents were like, let's try this. And so I did that and I was like, yo, this is it. Like I found what I really enjoyed doing and it was a hobby. And I wasn't acting up as much in school anymore because I started doing plays, like theater plays and stuff like that with adults. Uh, and so I was learning, you know, lines and stuff like that. But when I, you know, when I got into that, I was like about, I wanna say like 13, 14. So I was still a kid going to school and everything like that, just doing, just doing theater.

• 4:15Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah. So, um, talk a little bit about sort of what you were like as a kid, you know, maybe tell us what your folks did or like, did you have siblings? And I mean, I know a little bit about your story, but, um, you know, tell us a little bit about sort of like, who was this kid who became funny in class? Like, like what were you like?

• 4:34Speaker 02

  I was the kid that would do a cartwheel to throw away something in the garbage.

• 4:39Mayim Bialik?

  I hated that kid. I hated that kid.

• 4:42Speaker 02

  Yes, you would have, yeah, just to get a laugh. You know what I mean? I kept tabs on the teachers because I wanted to know them personally. So I could tell jokes about them in class, which was crazy.

• 4:56Speaker 02

  And I just get in trouble because they're like, how did you even know that? I would find information about the teachers. And it was crazy because my mom, she's a teacher. And she's retired now, but she was a teacher at the time. So she, I didn't go to her school, but her coming home and then she's saying, I'm dealing with crazy kids all day. And then I have to come home and find out you're in trouble. And then my dad was a psychologist. So I had like two different spectrums. And it was funny growing up because my mom would give me a spanking and then my dad would be like, how do you feel?

• 5:29Speaker 02

  Banking, how do you feel? So it was just like weird growing up that way, but I enjoyed it. And our family, we love putting on shows when we're all together. Like we would do, everybody had a talent show during our family meetings and stuff like that. So we're just a loving, fun family and I just had a lot of energy. And I'm getting it all back now with my kids. I totally, I see it now. But yeah, I just had a bunch of energy, but shout out to my parents for like, letting me kind of spread my wings and find what I want to do. They did that with me and my sisters, which I think is super awesome, you know?

• 6:03Mayim Bialik?

  Who, who did you like? Like who were your kind of comedy influences? Because I'm gonna, I'm gonna date myself here.

• 6:10Mayim Bialik?

  You know, like I, I really got into In Living Color, for example. When I was like in junior high and in high school and, you know, that comedy really spoke to me. You know, I had been like staying up late to watch SNL, you know, I'd say from, yeah, like in middle school on. But I also was raised on like Fawlty Towers and Monty Python. So I'm curious, like who were your influences? Who, who were you impersonating when you were being this guy in school? If you were like, you know, doing a stand up bit?

• 6:38Speaker 02

  Okay, so definitely I agree with you. In Living Color, I was a huge fan of In Living Color. Watched everything. Martin Lawrence, that's another one. I loved Martin's show. And then too, I'm gonna say this, John Ritter. Okay, and I got to work with, she said, huh, right, exactly. See, and here's the thing, John Ritter, it's like his physical comedy was.

• 7:02Mayim Bialik?

  No, I totally, yeah, absolutely.

• 7:04Speaker 02

  And the thing about is that I used to stay up at night before school, like I, you know, I was supposed to be bed, but I had this little TV that was in my room. And, you know, back in the day, she's that type of child. And what would come on was Three's Company reruns.

• 7:19Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 7:19Speaker 02

  And I would watch him like do this crazy stuff in that apartment, being physical and stuff like that. Where there was one episode where he played his cousin and played himself. And he had to be his cousin in himself and fool Mr. Furly.

• 7:34Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  And behind the couch. Genius, right? And that, in my little mind, that was like, dude, this is what I want to do. Like, this dude is hilarious. And I got to work with him years later, I know we're in the kid part, but when Clifford and the Big Red Dog, I got to work with him.

• 7:49Mayim Bialik?

  Wow.

• 7:50Speaker 02

  But it was just like amazing for me. So, yeah, that, and then the Rat Pack, I love the Rat Pack. Because I'm a theater kid, I really love like being a triple threat. So it's like the music, you know, Sammy Davis Jr., all of that, dancing, I'm really into that.

• 8:07Mayim Bialik?

  That's really awesome. So tell us about your relationship with Keenan, because you guys, you guys grew up and then ended up, you had, you basically grew up together on television. Did y'all know each other before, like, how did that, how did you become? Because you were, you know, you were a powerful duo, you know, for comedy. And, and so many people, you know, really resonated with your style of comedy and the way the two of you played off each other. So how, how do you get a comedy buddy that, yeah?

• 8:39Speaker 02

  That's a blessing with that happening. We all want that as far as like having a cast that just works well together. But we started out on All That. All That was our first show, which was like a, a lot of people say SNL for kids, but I really say a Living Color for kids because of our musical guests and just how for Nickelodeon, it was like a first with them trying hip hop. And having having kids that are all diverse on one show, bringing this comedy. So, yeah, it was just awesome. We worked together on that. And what was funny was when I got into television, I was at the age where it was time to get a job. So I wasn't like the kid, like Hollywood stars that's like at like five, I was on TV.

• 9:24Speaker 02

  I was like, you know, fifteen when I got on TV.

• 9:27Mayim Bialik?

  Same.

• 9:28Speaker 02

  So it was like, yeah.

• 9:29Mayim Bialik?

  We have a similar experience.

• 9:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:31Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  So it was like, you know, I remember like I had midterms when I auditioned for all of that. And in the room, I just went super blank, you know what I mean? And I never do that, but I was like had midterms on the mind in school. And so I remember I just was like, uh, and they said, hey, you want to go out in the hallway? Practice it, come back in. And as I walked out, I knocked over a whole bunch of camera cords. And when I knocked it over, but I did it in a physical way to like try to fix it. And they thought that was hilarious. And I, I came back in and they said, you know what? Instead of the monologue, just do impersonations. And instead of like impersonating celebs, I impersonated my teachers,

• 10:12Speaker 02

  my uncles and people I knew riding the CTA and riding the L train in Chicago. That's where a lot of stuff was birthed, like Good Burger was birthed in there. You know, I did that voice. I did Coach Creighton because that was based on a coach that I had in high school that was very, very mean. He hated everybody. He was like, it's Valentine's. I don't care. Love. Don't nobody care about that. And you throw a volleyball at it. And so like, that was kind of where that came from. So a lot of characters were birthed in there. But then Mimi Keeney, because I know she's like, I asked about Keeney, but Mimi Keeney.

• 10:46Mayim Bialik?

  No, no, but this is what I was curious about. Yeah. Curious about you, but also like how you get a buddy like that, like, you know, to be a comedian with. Yeah.

• 10:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, so he was on, he was on, he had already done Mighty Ducks, right?

• 10:58Mayim Bialik?

  Ah, yes, Mighty Ducks.

• 11:00Speaker 02

  Right, Mighty Ducks, right, the knuckle, knuckle puck, I think it was. And he was already doing that. And it was a nationwide search for all of that. So they got kids from everywhere. And I remember, I don't know if they set this up, but after our auditions, which was like the Avengers, like every funny kid from everywhere with their funny superpowers going against each other. After we got it, they put us in a hotel, right? Hotel room, lobby, hotel lobby. And we all came down at different times. I don't know if they figured out how they were gonna do it. But we were all standing there, we'll see that kid. I'm like, okay, cool, I'll hang out with that kid. That kid, I don't know, maybe. And then this kid, and so they're all coming down. And I remember Kena was the last one. And he rolled in on his roller blades.

• 11:44Speaker 02

  Mighty Ducks roller blades, did a trick and had all his Mighty Ducks swag. And was like, hey!

• 11:51Mayim Bialik?

  Kids today don't know how easy they have it. Back then, you had to have Mighty Ducks roller blades. You had to do tricks to impress people. You had to knock shit over and pretend like you meant to do it.

• 12:01Speaker 02

  It was a show, man, really. And so I saw this kid and I'm like, yo, I gotta hang out with him. And we would hang out off set and people would see that while we were shooting off all that. And they thought that we were funny, offset in on. And I remember when we introduced TLC. And this moment is big for us because it was the moment we saw like, oh! Like I would tell the joke and then he would know what I was gonna say next. And I knew what he was gonna say next. And it was like, we was just working very well. And we introduced TLC as two old men. And I remember that was the one where we were like, uh, the show's over, oh yeah, kick it! And that's what they used as the tag at the end of every all that. So, uh, yeah, crazy moment.

• 12:44Mayim Bialik?

  So, yeah, um, I wanna, if, if you don't mind, I wanna, I wanna poke at something you mentioned. Cause I think, I think it does relate to, you know, sort of the impact you, you had and, and continue to have, you know, as a, as a comedian and as a, you know, a public person. This was a time in television where you didn't often see shows starring black people like that. Meaning, this was like, um, it was a, it was a significant and important show that you were part of in terms of visibility. And I want to know, you know, for me, you know, when I was that age, I was on Blossom and, you know, we, we were on After the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air and we were the second highest rated show among black families at that time. Like, go figure. That was just like.

• 13:27Speaker 02

  I watched it.

• 13:28Mayim Bialik?

  There you go.

• 13:28Speaker 02

  Constantly. We rushed home like to see.

• 13:31Mayim Bialik?

  Thank you.

• 13:32Speaker 02

  Gotta watch Blossom. That's how we said it.

• 13:33Mayim Bialik?

  No, but, um, but no, there, there was, you know, kind of like the beginnings of conversations about like, we had Salt and Pepper on and we had like CNC Music Factory and there's kind of the beginning of this like blending of cultures, which like, you know, seemed very crazy in like the early 90s. Like, oh my gosh. Like, like, anyway, uh, you get it. So, but I am curious, was there a conversation about that either in your family or, or with friends of yours? Like, was there a consciousness of like, wow, this is a really bold, awesome thing, which now I think young people would look and be like, oh, that's cool. Like, great show. But at the time, like, it was really significant.

• 14:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, uh, my parents were very conscious of that. And so they always reminded me of this opportunity, but then also the kids that were watching me that I could enlighten and empower with, with being on this show. And, uh, that was cool for me. And so I always walked into it like, okay, I'm, I'm a role model, even if I don't want to be, but this is what, what I'm gonna be. And so, uh, I always looked at it like that. And then even now, um, cause you know, when you're a kid, you don't really see it as much, but as we got, I, as we, uh, even now are older and we look back and we're just like, wow, like uh, the amount of like, uh, kids that come up to me and say like, it was awesome seeing

• 14:55Speaker 02

  two African-American boys that just, you know, uh, showed this friendship that was so awesome. And then just having this, uh, show that was so fun. And then even with all that, with it being so diverse and then all the different acts that we had on the show, uh, it was big. And even for kids, it was big. Cause even with Blossom, like with us all being kids, that was a different thing too. Uh, so, uh, yeah, I just, I love being a part of that. And, and for it to still. Kick, you know, like when people still can go back and watch those shows from the 90s and still go, hey, it still makes me laugh, which is awesome.

• 15:29Mayim Bialik?

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• 17:00Jonathan Cohen?

  To put Kel on the spot, but given that he's a big Blossom fan, does he have a Blossom impersonation?

• 17:06Mayim Bialik?

  He's not going to do a Blossom impersonation.

• 17:08Speaker 02

  I got one of your dance moves.

• 17:09Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, my.

• 17:10Speaker 02

  You were here with it. You said bow, bow with the bucket hat, and you used to flip the bucket hat up with the flowers. I was a fan, okay? Listen, listen.

• 17:20Mayim Bialik?

  That's ridiculous.

• 17:21Speaker 02

  You had the Jodassey boots with the dress, and you said, look, you said...

• 17:25Jonathan Cohen?

  The original OG hipster right here.

• 17:28Mayim Bialik?

  That's, that's me. I feel really old right now. Kel was like, I was three years old when you were 14. Now, we've actually had a lot of guests on who have had early fame. And, you know, it's, in my experience, just both my personal experience and also with people we've talked to, it's a mixed bag. And that's kind of like what it's gonna be. And I think that, you know, for a lot of people, it's much more convenient to be like, "Oh, I did tons of drugs and it was a mess and then I went to rehab." Like, that's often not like what stories sound like. And stories are often also, they're not like, "It was amazing and I never saw anything bad and I always felt positive and good about myself." Like, it's a complete mix. And on one day, you feel really honored to be this public person.

• 18:11Mayim Bialik?

  And on, and by sundown, you feel completely overwhelmed and you just want to hang out with your normal friends, but they don't treat you like you're the normal person anymore. And it's just like, whatever. It's a whole mix. Did you get married young? Cause like, I'm, when I read your bio, I'm like, first of all, you've done so many things. I'm like, is he 86? Like, how did he do this? You got married young though, correct?

• 18:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, my, my first marriage, yeah.

• 18:34Mayim Bialik?

  Right, that's what I mean.

• 18:35Speaker 02

  I was married very young. Yeah. Yeah, very young.

• 18:39Mayim Bialik?

  And after Kenan and Kel was no longer on the air, you had sort of a rough period. It was probably your first time kind of not working, right? In, in a long time.

• 18:51Mayim Bialik?

  Do you talk about sobriety? Like, how do you like to sort of frame that part of your life?

• 18:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, here's, here's the thing. It's like when you're in, in this business, right? And you get it as a kid and it comes all like fast, right? And there are a lot of ups and downs. And there's a, a thing where you get to a point where, "Do they love me for my character or for who I am, my regular person?"

• 19:20Mayim Bialik?

  I think they love you for your character and here we are.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  Exactly. And so, and, and, and that's the thing that a lot of young celebs get mixed up. So, and then when the show stops, then it's like, well, who are you? You know what I mean? So you have to have a good sense of self and like not be like, "Oh, I'm my character." Cause a lot of people put so much on the character.

• 19:42Mayim Bialik?

  Fusing them is the solution. It's like, "Oh, if I'm just the same person on and off camera, I'll never have to worry." Like, a lot of people do that.

• 19:50Speaker 02

  I know, and you can't, because of the fact that what happens is, is that you think, okay, these producers, these people, this is like, and you don't realize this is a job. And then they go to the next job, and you go to the next job, and it's a journey. Some, you know, I was in the mindset of like, okay, this is, this is it. This is what I'm doing, and I'm forever, you know what I mean? And I can't be stopped. And there were things, but then there were times where it was like, I didn't know who to trust. And I didn't know who was out for me for certain things. And that gave me a lot of anxiety. And then, growing up in Chicago as well, I grew up around gang violence and things of that nature. And then I got to LA, and it was like, oh, thankful to be here.

• 20:34Speaker 02

  But then, there were things that I saw behind the scenes with a lot of different celebs that were very similar to what I saw growing up. You know what I mean? So it was just like, oh, boy. So it was, it was a lot where that I think people don't know the pressures that a lot of celebrities go through, and within anxiety with finding a good sense of self.

• 20:55Mayim Bialik?

  And those are things that all humans experience, right? We're not saying like, oh, my gosh, I should feel bad for celebrities. But the fact that celebrities are people too, who are experiencing anxiety, like we're, whatever, like celebrities are people too. We're susceptible to the same pitfalls. It might be on a different scale, a larger scale, a more expensive scale, like whatever it is. But those things are real, and it sounds like you're a very sensitive person. If you're a sensitive person, you're going to be sensitive to that.

• 21:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you're a delty in front of the entire world. You know what I'm saying? So, and it's like, once you're in the public eye, you know, you're gonna get a piece by all kinds of people, and some of those could be negative as well. And so, as a kid and a delty within that, it's very hard to digest a lot of that because you're trying to find out who you even are, and you're growing up very fast, trying to figure that out. And so, for me, what helped me grounded, be grounded in that was my faith. You know what I mean? My faith in God, my parents drilling that with me. Came home, it was like, hey, I'm still, I'm still Kel.

• 22:04Speaker 02

  But at the same time, you know, you still deal with the things that you go through, the ups and downs of life and decisions that you make. But I would never trade it because I feel like the things that I've went through in my life and the things that I've learned, there's no mistakes, there's just lessons. You know what I mean? And it made me the man that I am today, you know what I mean? Yeah.

• 22:22Mayim Bialik?

  You're the grandson of a pastor, correct?

• 22:25Speaker 02

  Uh huh, yeah.

• 22:25Mayim Bialik?

  And you've, um, what's the correct term? Have you taken on the ministry? What's it, I don't know what to call it.

• 22:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I'm actually a pastor. I'm a youth pastor.

• 22:37Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, got it. You're a youth pastor.

• 22:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I'm a youth pastor. So, uh, yeah, I know we just jumped over a whole like.

• 22:42Mayim Bialik?

  No, no, no, I'll get back, I'll get back to it. No, because I, I did want to acknowledge that like I knew this about you and the faith thing, so.

• 22:49Speaker 02

  Of course, of course.

• 22:50Mayim Bialik?

  So, yeah, you've, you've been open, like, obviously People Magazine gets people to be open about all sorts of things. But you've been open, you know, I like to make a distinction between people who like had a good time partying and people who literally were living a life that they didn't want to live anymore. And it sounds like yours was more like, I don't want to live this life anymore. And you've also talked about a balcony in Canada. Something we also talk about a lot here is that oftentimes drugs and alcohol, they're not the problem, they're an attempted solution.

• 23:21Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 23:22Mayim Bialik?

  To, to, um, you know, a, a deeper and often more complicated, I don't want to say problem, but set of issues that deserve to be held. So, um, maybe you can talk a little bit, you know, and also knowing kind of the, you know, the position that you have as a, as a youth pastor, I'm sure this is something that comes up. Talk a little bit about sort of how it got out of control and then what that moment was like when you decided like, I don't want to do this anymore.

• 23:45Speaker 02

  Okay, so it was really, uh, finding, like I said before, that, that good sense of self. I was lost within, okay. When I was in Vancouver, I was at, I remember I was at the Sutton Hotel. This was two thousand six, I believe. And I had friends that, you know, had been murdered in Chicago while I was in, you know, LA. I had, my uncle was murdered. I was, had a marriage that was falling apart because we didn't really know each other. We were very young. We didn't know each other at all. It was a situation where that, that was falling apart, looking at divorce. And so I had divorce, I had that going on. Grief.

• 24:30Speaker 02

  And I got to a point where it was just like, man, I'm just gonna push the off button. I'm just gonna literally just push the off button. And at the time, I was shooting Like Mike Two in Vancouver. And I remember, which is really deep, in the Sutton Hotel, if, you know, they shoot, but they put a lot of celebs there when they shoot shows in Vancouver. But I remember Amanda Bynes was at there, she was doing a movie. Keenan was there doing Snakes on the Plane. And I was there, shooting my show, my movie. But this is what I'm talking about when it's, yeah, you could be shooting something

• 25:10Speaker 02

  and you could be, you know, working a job, you can be, you know, this, have whatever job it is. But a lot of times, you don't know what people are really going through personally in their life. And for me, I learned later in life that that is why it's so important to treat everybody kind, treat people how you want to be treated. But around this time, I didn't really know that. Around this time, I wanted to mask everything. And as far as my emotions, I really didn't show that a lot. I really didn't want to show people what I was really going through. I was embarrassed at what was happening. It was a situation where it was kind of like, I saw my parents have this beautiful relationship. And this was like, I had a list. It was like, oh, I'm gonna marry at this point, and this, and this. And it didn't turn out that way.

• 25:53Speaker 02

  And so it's like, uh-oh, with that not turning out that way, what do you do? And I literally had a breakdown. And I was over it on a balcony, I was smoking, and I was literally about to jump. And a voice told me. No doubt at all, which was the Lord. It was telling me, look, get off that balcony, go into the bathroom, lock the door.

• 26:16Mayim Bialik?

  Wow.

• 26:17Speaker 02

  And stay in there the entire night, right? And I just stayed in there the entire night. And when I woke up in the bathroom, off the floor, I said to myself, I gotta, I gotta make a change. I gotta literally make a change. And I did that. And what was really deep about it is that when I came back, I filed for divorce, you know what I mean? Did that, went through that process.

• 26:41Mayim Bialik?

  Did you get clean at that time?

• 26:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I wasn't on like, hard, you know.

• 26:47Mayim Bialik?

  I know, but there's all different definitions of clean.

• 26:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, but yeah.

• 26:50Mayim Bialik?

  I can do a lot of damage with just a couple of mojitos, let me tell you.

• 26:54Speaker 02

  Exactly. But yeah, but we're talking about like drinking and, and smoking, right? And so, you know, weed, marijuana, all that stuff.

• 27:03Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 27:03Speaker 02

  And so like with, with that, it was more of like, no, I didn't get, I didn't, wasn't clean right then and there. No, not at all. And so this was definitely a journey. But within that, at that moment, it was me going, okay, all right, let me change my life around. Let me start taking the steps to making it happen, the steps. And so I came back home and filed for divorce, did that, changed my life around. And that was crazy too. As far as that whole process, it went on for years.

• 27:36Mayim Bialik?

  It does. It'll keep going on.

• 27:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, that went, that went on for years. But here's, here's what's deep about all this, right? Recently, I just filmed a, a Christmas movie in Vancouver. And I flew, I was just in Vancouver two weeks ago. And I went out walking and it was funny is that they put me in the Sutton Hotel.

• 27:59Mayim Bialik?

  No, they didn't. No.

• 28:00Speaker 02

  Which is real, yes. So they put me in this hotel and it was such a moment.

• 28:08Speaker 02

  Because then looking through it through different eyes now. Looking through it through godly eyes and who I am now and what I've been through. You're talking about, that was many years ago, that was 2006. And now that I'm looking at it, I'm going, wow. And I walked and went to a church that was down the street from Vancouver that I went to. Around that time, when I came out of that bathroom, I went to the church and I started reading devotional books and all that stuff, getting back to my faith. And I did all that at the Sutton Hotel. And so it was just such a surreal moment for me to go back there all these years later. You know, now having my beautiful wife, all my children, you know, all this love that we have. And knowing the things that I have defeated in my life.

• 28:52Speaker 02

  Emotional walls that I have broken down, like in every emotional wall, there is an opening for people. And I'm so thankful that I found that, that opening because it was really finding the love that God has for me. And me showing the love to others. And with me doing that was me saying, hey, I got through this. Let me show you how to get through it. Because a lot, you know, I've been with a lot of celebs that, you know, want to find love, want to find just acceptance. And you would never know it, like it's literally like they're just like, hey, you know what I mean? But they're going through certain things in their life. And even with people that are not celebs, they're going through certain things.

• 29:34Speaker 02

  So if you can, at, at some point, just be someone that will give someone a hug, that maybe never gets a hug. To say something kind to someone that never gets something kind said to them during the day. That's what's important to me. I feel like you meet everybody for a reason. And what's so deep about this is that now knowing the things that, that the blessings that have happened, if I would have killed myself. At that moment and decided to say this is the off button. That's what the enemy wants. That's what you know would happen and I would have never been able to uh tell my story. That's why it's so important that we actually tell our story.

• 30:14Speaker 02

  Mental health is very important right now uh for everyone, especially with going through quarantine and you know this pandemic. A lot of people have these, you know, alone time where they have to deal with their own demons and things from their past and things that they need to deal with that have come up. And that's going on a lot right now with mental health. And that's how I feel that moment was when I was in that room alone out there at the Sutton Hotel. I had to deal with all those things. I had to be plucked out of this sea of sadness that I was in and plucked and put in one area by myself to deal with it. And when I did, I came out of it uh more blessed and uh it was a journey.

• 30:55Mayim Bialik?

  When this happened in the middle of you uh working the night that you locked yourself in the bathroom, did you have to go to work the next day?

• 31:02Speaker 02

  Oh, let me tell, let me tell you, let me tell you that.

• 31:05Mayim Bialik?

  Cause that's what I'm trying to wrap my head around, like.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  It was like three, eight, like around two or three AM when I was doing that, right? And then I went into the, and I had to be on set at like nine AM.

• 31:17Mayim Bialik?

  No.

• 31:18Speaker 02

  And I literally went in there with a glazed like not.

• 31:22Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 31:22Speaker 02

  I wa- I wasn't there. You know what I mean? But I played my part.

• 31:27Mayim Bialik?

  Right. We don't, we don't get sick days like that. We don't get mental health days as actors. So, so I, what I wanna know, this is just a personal thing. I wanna know what scenes you filmed that day and I wanna look them up. And I wanna, and I wanna psychoanalyze them. No, because like what I'm probably sure of is that nobody could tell, right?

• 31:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. No one could tell and I didn't tell anybody anything.

• 31:54Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 31:55Speaker 02

  Um, and also too, now you gotta remember now, this is not, this wasn't just the moment. There is moments in Keenan and Kel and Good Burger when I had to be like, welcome to Good Burger. Welcome to Good Burger. You can't take your order. That I was really dealing with a lot of, uh, pain around that time. You know what I mean? So within that, that was going on too. So, uh, it's, it seems that I watched Keenan and Kel and I know people laugh and everything, but I know like what happened right before I even arrived to shoot that first scene. You know what I mean? You just, you just never know. You just never know what someone is going through. And it's always good to just, you know, show up and show God's love and show love to them because you just never know.

• 32:38Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah. You said something, um, kind of in passing that I was wondering if you could elaborate on a little bit. And I really hope you don't feel uncomfortable, um, about this question, but I think it is important for him for, to give you the opportunity to talk more about the violence that you witnessed or saw growing up.

• 32:58Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 32:58Mayim Bialik?

  Um, I mean, you don't have to if you don't want to, but for young people especially who, who grow up in situations where they see difficult things going on that they're completely powerless over in their community, in their world, that has a really large impact on the mental health, not only of individuals, but of communities. And, you know, this is something that, you know, I, I think a lot of people don't remember that like, oh, Black Lives Matter also like had this country on its knees, like even before COVID, rightfully so. But for a lot of us, part of quarantine, part of, you know, the pandemic and the isolation was also watching an ongoing struggle that's been going on for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years,

• 33:43Mayim Bialik?

  kind of playing out in front of us. And I think that there's, you know, as helpless as I feel, the people who grow up in communities that are touched by violence, and I'm not just talking about black people. I'm talking about people who grow up in communities that are touched by violence or by drug abuse. Those have an impact. And you know, there have been many wonderful documentaries that I force my children to watch. The 13th being one of them. But maybe you can speak a little bit about kind of what it was like for you because you mentioned things in passing that many of us could never imagine having to deal with. Like losing loved ones to this kind of violence. Like, can you talk a little bit about how you compartmentalized that as a kid or as an adult?

• 34:26Speaker 02

  Definitely. So in the early 90s, growing up on the south side of Chicago, we dealt with a lot where in my household, it was love, which was beautiful. And my parents keeping us covered and praying with us. But then when we go outside that door, what was really deep was how prayer covering us and them covering us because I lost a lot of friends. You know what I mean? Two gang violence. One of my best friends was murdered, shot in the head. And I talked about that on, when I did Dancing With The Stars around that time because I felt it was so important because we were having so much gun violence that was going around in 2019.

• 35:10Speaker 02

  And what touched my heart so much was that, man, I've been dealing with this since I was a tween. You know what I mean? And I've seen it. And it hit so home because as I was pastoring, one of my youth were at the, one of the high schools where a shooting happened. And I was on, had just preached, went to Dancing With The Stars. But in that time, I was praying for her because she called me up and her family called me up and told me what happened. And so it was like the perfect, I was thankful that I had been through it because I was there to console her and let her know that she'll be able to get through this because I had been through it. And then too, to have, you know, both of my uncles murdered.

• 35:54Speaker 02

  That was deep because of the fact that, you know, to see my father's two brothers murdered. And these are my uncles that I loved very dearly. You know, and all this stuff was happening like shortly before all that, during all that. These were things that I was dealing with. So when I came to Nickelodeon, when I got on the show, it was like some, some of the kids I couldn't really relate to. You know what I mean? So because it was kind of like, the lifestyle was very, you know, very different. But then it was others that, but they had their own. Journey too, you know what I mean? The things that they were dealing with too, which showed me a lot too in our conversation.

• 36:31Mayim Bialik?

  But you had kind of, you kind of gained an adult consciousness, I think, when you have to deal with adult things like that, meaning having a sense of loss like that and a sense of fracturing of your own community and your own family and your social structure. It gives you a worldliness that a lot of kids probably can't relate to. And that's, you know, kind of what I was, was, was thinking about, like you carry all that with you, you know?

• 36:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, like when I was on the, not to cut you off, but like when I was on the show, it was a, a situation for me where it was like, you know, I'm doing this for my city. You know what I mean? Like, I really was carrying, carrying that. I had a moment where I told my dad, when we were adults, we were just, you know, while I was adult, he was adult already. But I was talking, I was talking to my dad and, uh, one time and he didn't know that this, this happened. I remember when I got on all that, my uncle, who loved to work out, you know, he was super strong. And, uh, he asked me, he was like, yo, you, you need a bodyguard? I see like Michael Jackson, all them, you know, people like that, they got bodyguards. And I was thinking to myself, I was just getting started. I think I've been on the show like maybe two months or whatever, it just aired.

• 37:42Speaker 02

  And I was like, nah, I mean, I ain't like that, you know what I mean? I guess not like I need like this, this, this bodyguard. But what, what was crazy was that that summer, he was murdered. And so for me, I took that. I took it and I never told anybody and I took it as if, if he would have been the bodyguard for me, then I, this wouldn't have happened. And I, I broke down to my dad and he was just like, no, like, I didn't even know that you were carrying that. No, like you know his lifestyle and what he was into and I was, I was like, yeah, I know, I know. But that was still my, you know, I loved him, I'm still my uncle.

• 38:25Speaker 02

  So it was like, if I, if he was with me, then this, you know what I mean? And so as a kid dealing with that and then going to set and then, you know, and it was, you know, little things where, you know, kids on set like, I don't like the way the camera is on me like this. You know what I mean?

• 38:42Speaker 02

  It's like, yo, like, come on, man.

• 38:44Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, there's a lot of other things.

• 38:45Speaker 02

  Shoot the scene, man.

• 38:48Speaker 02

  Not that, not that serious, you know what I mean? And so, uh, but then it was like, you know, and then stuff with producers and things of that nature where it's like when you start seeing the other side of the entertainment business, that's where I was telling you where that, that trust. Cause you gain an anxiety when people are, you're losing people around you. And then it's like, well, who can I trust? And then even with relationships, you pick the wrong type of people as well.

• 39:15Mayim Bialik?

  Yes, it is.

• 39:15Speaker 02

  You know, with it, which is very true within that, because you haven't found a good sense of your own self. And how can I trust and letting go of a lot of things? And I dealt with a, a lot of that in my journey of, uh, just life, you know what I mean? And I won't even say through my career, but just in, just in life, you know?

• 39:35Mayim Bialik?

  I have a question. So many questions. It's kind of about two things, but I was thinking of you as a youth pastor. Where do you mainly pastorize? What's the word?

• 39:47Speaker 02

  Oh, that's hilarious.

• 39:49Mayim Bialik?

  Different word. Where do you? Where, where?

• 39:51Speaker 02

  I get it. I get it.

• 39:53Mayim Bialik?

  Where, where, where are your youths?

• 39:56Speaker 02

  We're at, uh, Spirit Food Christian Center and, uh,

• 39:59Mayim Bialik?

  Where is that? What city are you in?

• 40:01Speaker 02

  It's in Oneza, California.

• 40:02Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, it's in California. Okay.

• 40:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's in California. And here's what's deep. It's like, I didn't just wake up and go, hey, I'm gonna be a pastor.

• 40:09Mayim Bialik?

  No, I actually wanted to hear, I actually wanted to hear what's involved. Like, how, how do you do that?

• 40:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it's, uh, I was in, um, I know you told, said in the beginning, like, you know, you've consistently worked. And, but there were a lot of ups and downs within it too. Very thankful for working, but also too, there was a, a lot of ups and downs. And so within that time and those downs, uh, the Lord was there with me. You know, as far as my prayer and, and my faith and keeping me going. Cause there was a lot that I had to go through, like even through when the divorce started to go into court systems. And then even when there was no more work. And there was no more money and no more cars and totally starting over.

• 40:53Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 40:54Speaker 02

  And it's like literally, hey, I didn't have like the whole like, oh, I have this savings. No, it was like start over from square one. And it was really during that time where the church was there for me. And I had a lot of people that prayed for me, pulled me through, like literally when I say pray for me, I mean, like calling me on the phone. Hey, Kel, you know, I know you just went to the club, but I'm gonna pray for you right now. Yeah, I want you to pray right now.

• 41:20Mayim Bialik?

  People always pray for me when I go to the club, but for a different reason.

• 41:24Speaker 02

  Right. And so like this was, this was literally going on in my life. And I was trying to like, uh, my dad calls this apartment that I had at one point, um, called it the cave. Cause it was just like this bachelor pad, but it was like really much of nothing in it, but it was like a cave. And it, it went from like me just, you know, saying, hey, I'm single. I'm trying to figure out my life after divorce and all this stuff. But then it started to switch and turn into like this, my story, like I had index cards and Bible verses taped everywhere around the house. So that when I walked out, I would have this with me, you know what I mean?

• 42:07Speaker 02

  So it was something that I could out, I'll honestly go to at any point.

• 42:11Mayim Bialik?

  Became a whole different kind of cave.

• 42:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, a whole different type of cave, you know what I mean? And so, uh, what was crazy is that I had gotten to helps ministry. I remember there was a friend of mine who I worked with on a project that didn't go through, you know, if you're an actor, that happens. And so, uh, but she said, hey, I'm gonna send you an email and I want you to just check it out. I'll check your email out. And I checked this email out and it was, uh, the church, Spiritful Christian Center. So I went to the church and, uh, checked it out and loved the pastor, loved his, his realness about, you know, who he was and his faith. And I got into helps ministry after being there for a couple of years. And within that meaning helping, wherever I saw that there was something going on, I wanted to help.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  Didn't do it for any money or anything like that. I was literally helping and I asked, uh, I saw that they needed help as far as stage management. And I was just like. You guys might want to do that because it was a lot of choir members arguing about time and stuff. And I said, you know what, maybe I'll need a stage manager. They're like, what? What's that? And I was like, let me help out. And so I literally became like the stage manager and I would do the video announcements and all this stuff. And wherever I was at, like when work started to come in and I was traveling, I would have a setup like this with cameras and everything. Would do video announcements for the church, uh, because I put the church in the forefront and God in the forefront.

• 43:34Speaker 02

  And that was just awesome. And I always had this calling on me, calling on me to go to, uh, to actually speak and be a pastor. Uh, because I was always speaking in my lowest of times. I remember I didn't have a car.

• 43:47Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 43:47Speaker 02

  And I was taking meetings. I remember I was taking a meeting with Cedric the Entertainer and I was just, I was like, I put a restaurant that was close to a cave apartment. And so then I was just like, it, it was like, yeah, he was like, this is an interesting restaurant. Why'd you pick this place? I was like, oh no, it's all good. They have great food, man. They have great food. And then so I'm doing that there. And then everybody gets out from the meeting and I wait. Cause everybody's getting in their cars and I just wait and I walk back to the, to where I was staying. But it was like literally moments like that, that I go, oh, this, I love those moments because it really just made me just tap into enjoying the moment.

• 44:27Speaker 02

  And enjoying life at whatever stage you are at, because I wasn't always like that. And I think it's very important to do that. There's things that I look back now with the shows and stuff like that where I wasn't really enjoying the moment. It was more of, I gotta do this. I gotta be the funniest one here. I gotta do this for this. I gotta do this for this. I gotta do. And it was more of like, no, like really understand the blessing of just you waking up this morning and breathing is, is a blessing within this. But yeah, uh, I know I'm talking a lot, but.

• 44:59Mayim Bialik?

  No, I'm enjoying it. I just want to know how you become a youth pastor.

• 45:02Speaker 02

  But yeah, so within this and all the things that I was going through, within me speaking, that was really deep. Because it was like, in my time of prayer, the Lord said, I want you to go and speak to other youth. About what you're going through. And I was like, I need somebody to speak to me. Like, I'm trying to get to places that I need to get in life, and I haven't got there yet. And he's like, no, go speak to youth. So I would go to youth groups and I would go to juvie halls. I would go everywhere and just tell my story of growing up in Chicago, growing up in L.A., growing up with all these things and showing how my faith brought me through. And as I was doing this, it was empowering me and empowering the kids. And a lot of things came out of that.

• 45:46Speaker 02

  As I'm doing this, we did a show, me and my wife. Uh, we were dating at the time. And, uh, I'll say that too, which is beautiful. When you work on yourself and you work on who you are, God gives you the person that you're supposed to be with, right? And so my beautiful wife, my best friend, when we were, uh, dating, I remember we started a, uh, show called The Back House Party. It was a live show for kids in Carson, California, right next to Compton, uh, South Central. They were supposed to all come through. We saw kids dancing during the jerk movement, where they were just dancing in the street. And they were doing videos in the street. And I was like, yo, it would be dope if they had a place where they could have a competition and actually like battle, and that would be cool. And then we like, you know, have vendors come.

• 46:30Speaker 02

  And then based on the money from the vendors and the tickets, we'll give them money, give the kids who won. And so, and it would be great for the vendors, you know, the community. And we actually did this and we did it for like three, four years, which is super awesome. The kids loved it. And at the beginning of each one, uh, it was a positive place for kids to come in the community. And we would pray right before they would go. And my pastor came to one of them and he was so moved. He was like, man, these youth that you just, you know, ministering to, you know, I wasn't a minister yet. But he was just like, I want you to, I think you should preach, right? And be a minister, right, at the church and run the youth group. And I was like, no, absolutely not. I don't think that's what, I don't think that's what the Lord told you.

• 47:13Speaker 02

  I'm like, cause I'm in, I'm in the, like, I'm this like celebrity, you know, trying to figure my way out. And I'm like, how am I gonna preach and then be on TV? And I have no one to really look at to get advice on that. I, I don't wanna do it. And what was crazy was that a lot of people had been telling me this for years. And I was also doing stand-up at the time, which is another really deep thing. And within stand-up, I was doing stand-up and having great crowds. And I had to learn how to be very good at it. But then, when I would go up in the back to the green rooms, and I would talk to the comedians, and it's like, man, this forty-five minutes, or this five minutes on stage that I have, or whatever, how long my set is,

• 47:57Speaker 02

  takes me away from the pain that I'm really going through. But what's happening with the mother hours of the day? And it was a point where I ended up praying with guys in the green room while we were doing, you know, stand-up. And so, I got to a point where I was just like, yeah, let me talk to the Lord about this. For real, for real, because he's pulling at my heart. And a lot of people are telling me this. And the Lord said, I want you to do it. And he said, but when you do it, I'm gonna continue to, I want you to continue to stay in the business and in your career, because there's people that need it in Hollywood too, and in LA, you know what I mean? And I said, okay, alright, I'll do it. It's gonna be rough. And so, it was, and it was.

• 48:40Speaker 02

  It was like, it was like doing both at the same time, but then the blessings that come from it is so awesome. Like now, when I walk on a set, I don't walk on a set like, hey, you know what I mean? Like, I'm here because I got this gig. No, I'm here for a reason. We're all here to tell a story, but I'm also here to meet these people, everyone that's here, on the crew, and the actors for a reason, because we're all family and all from our heart.

• 49:04Mayim Bialik?

  One of the things that I'm hearing, because obviously, not everybody believes in God or has to. You know, I'm the kind of person who believes that, like, there's one gravity. You don't have to believe in it, just kind of is. And if you don't want to think about it, you don't want to pray about it, that's fine. But it exists, whether you like it or not. That's sort of my view of like, God. One of the things that I'm picking up on is that kind of as your religious consciousness increased, as your commitment to your faith and that kind of notion of faith became more prominent for you, I'm noticing trends of like, you being more present.

• 49:39Mayim Bialik?

  You being more grateful, you doing more in your community. You're becoming more the person you want to be. And I'm not saying that like this is an advertisement for religion and like you should believe in God because of all those things. There are a lot of ways that people get to that. You know, many of us find that structured religion has a pretty strong formula and it's been around for a long time. So it's a, you know, it's an in. But one of the main things that I'm hearing you talk about change, you know, as you had this kind of consciousness, is you seem to understand your feelings better or more, or maybe at all. We recently spoke to Nikki Glaser, a comedian, who you may know her.

• 50:24Mayim Bialik?

  And she literally talked about like she didn't even, she still doesn't even really like know what her feelings are all the time when she's feeling them. So I'm thinking about kind of like the you that had all this fame and, and success, I don't want to say fame, but like you had all this success and you were doing, you were doing really good, fun, smart comedy, you know, you were having this whole life. And sure, you were a teenager, but even it sounds like into your twenties, like you weren't really dialed in to how you were feeling or what was happening to you. So can you talk a little bit, you know, less from a religious angle, but more from kind of what religion kind of gave you in terms of understanding your feelings and how that impacts your mental wellness?

• 51:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, to really, it's a, it's my spiritual self. I gotta be honest with that because we're all, we're all spirits. Do you know what I mean? In the inside, like this is just, you know, flesh, right? So in here is our real, our real self. So I really had to tap in to that. And what's really deep is that I had a situation that happened where there was this evangelist that prayed over me and got a lot off of me. And this might be too deep, you know what I mean?

• 51:34Mayim Bialik?

  No, it's fascinating.

• 51:36Speaker 02

  Okay, but yeah, so literally it was like.

• 51:39Mayim Bialik?

  You don't mean you were praying at the same time and like he prayed over you and you were trying to be heard and he prayed, you mean he literally prayed over your being?

• 51:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, there was a lot of demonicness that was going on. Oh, wow. And so, so, so within this, that's what I mean by deep. So in, in the mindness, it was like, I'm gonna pull this off of you. And so, within our praying, we're praying in tongues, we're praying. And I literally had a situation where each one came out, introduced themselves, came out. And so, literally, and all my buddies, they were there when this was going on too. And we were praying and just like, I physically, like, I wasn't there, but I wasn't there. You know what I mean? Like, and I was like, on the ground, all this stuff spitting up and all of this coming out.

• 52:30Speaker 02

  And when that happened, I physically would see, like, they come out, they say their name, and then it was gone. Right? And that happened multiple times, to the point where I felt like I did a cardio session. After it was over, I went in the mirror and my skin looked different, everything looked different. And in that moment, I was like, yo, okay, there is a spiritual realm. There's a spiritual realm, and that moment, I knew there's a spiritual realm. Now, was I a pastor then? No. Was I going through who I am now? No. And so, I had to learn this, what you're talking about, as far as those feelings and that, that love. And so, I was hard-headed at that time, where then it was kind of like, okay, well, that happened.

• 53:14Speaker 02

  And then, I went through in and out of different relationships and went through all this craziness. And then, it was just like, I was still struggling, you know, trying to figure it out. And, uh, and then I went right, like, right back to, like, this, this crazy lifestyle. And then, I, it was, it wasn't until I said, you know what, Kel? As far as, like, love is concerned, as far as, like, career is concerned, you need to find out and tap into your real spiritual self. And you're gonna have to do that. And that means you're gonna have to be your honest self, be honest with your feelings. Don't put a Band-Aid over how you really feel, because so many of us put a Band-Aid over how we feel, and we're walking around wounded, and people are not really seeing the real us. You know what I mean?

• 53:58Speaker 02

  It's almost like with actors, they gotta put on, like, hey, I'm such and such, and then they turn off all the lights and Dylan. But it's kind of like, no, like, remember, you said earlier, where people are the characters, so if they stay, like, true to their character, then that's who they are. But I say, flip that around. I say, if you are being your true- You know what I'm saying? Your true self, whatever you bring into a room, you change the atmosphere. You know what I mean? So you change the atmosphere of being who you are and showing the God in you. And that's what just really happened to me, where I realized that this is a, you know, spiritual warfare that's going on. You know what I mean? A lot of people have generational curses. A lot of people are dealing with a lot of generational things.

• 54:41Speaker 02

  And it's like, okay, you have to know how to powerfully pray that off. So going through my life, I learned how to do that. And I've seen it happen to even with myself. And I've seen it happen with others. And now it was a, it was a situation where I would look at people and I could tell, you know, like, just like, no, they're going through certain things. I don't think this is, God showed me that discernment. You know what I mean? And what, what was really good about that is that now having that discernment, I can understand and go through my journey in life a lot better now. You know, people would say energy and stuff like that, but it's really for me, it's like really understanding that and grasping a hold of that.

• 55:24Mayim Bialik?

  That's a fantastic explanation. And also like, I know that, that what you just shared is not something that you likely share with a lot of people. And I appreciate you sharing it with us because many people hear like praying over, speaking in tongues, like on the floor, things coming out, like what?

• 55:41Jonathan Cohen?

  Generational curses.

• 55:42Mayim Bialik?

  Generational curses. But I have to say that like, you know, Jonathan and I, you know, our paths towards healing in general, while they may not be of the Christian variety or the evangelical variety, we've done a lot of similar work in holistic realms. We just, I mean, we call it different things, but it's a very similar, it's a very similar process and it kind of like, I'm giving myself chills because it makes me feel like more unified, like whatever you believe, right? There's still this process that as humans, we have to undergo. We have to, if we want to live a true, authentic self, right? Free of whatever demons, like, and for everybody, it's different, right? There's this kind of process and some people may get to it a different.

• 56:26Mayim Bialik?

  Different way, like for me, my path has not been linear and I don't appreciate that. But you know, trusting God is trusting God's timing, right? Like it's not me getting to design it. That's why like this notion of like, it's not my will. If I prayed for my will, I don't know what Scott needs to do with his life. Scott's sitting over there. But like, I know that in the universe, Scott will be taken on whatever path he needs to be taken on. Right? It's being able to like, take your hands also off of like, what you think the world should be like.

• 56:54Jonathan Cohen?

  When I hear generational curse, we talk a lot about intergenerational trauma and how those things get passed from one to the next. And so I think there's a lot of similarities that are maybe slightly different language, but have a lot of overlap.

• 57:07Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, but I've done past life regressions. I've laid on the table and had them talk to me about what they see. I don't know if it's real, I don't know if it works, but it sure brings out some really interesting realizations and feelings. And it's always been a place of growth, even if I didn't understand it at the time.

• 57:24Jonathan Cohen?

  Well, I resonate when Kel says, your skin looked different after, you know, you have a significant spiritual experience and/or you have a major shift. And what I also heard is that, you know, you began to feel like more synchronized. You didn't use that word, but when you talked about like showing up to set and having that energy, because we're there and you don't know what's gonna happen, but you're sort of have a sense of being present and that there is some magic to be gained in the moment and that there is more of a divine process of life. To me, that's like, oh, we start to be more synchronized. We start to be in the flow state, as other people call it. And you know, as those signs, did you sort of start to experience more ease

• 58:09Jonathan Cohen?

  or that like life began to unfold in a different way for you?

• 58:13Mayim Bialik?

  He's got a wife, he seems really happy, he's got pretty shit hanging behind him. He's got a guitar, look at his necklace.

• 58:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's this, it's this love. Like I said, it's this, it's this joy that happens and it happened over time with me getting more and more in tune with it, more connected with my spiritual self, which has been, uh, super beautiful. And then the words that we say, how we talk about ourselves, because that's very important too. Words have power. You know what I mean? And I talk about that all the time. And, you know, people can say things like about themselves, you know, and, and, and just like, and don't realize that in the spiritual realm, you're stopping yourself from getting to a certain area because you've prayed, you know, in church and go, yeah, I agree with you, Lord. I want this to happen. And then as soon as you step out of there, something happens within your life, a distraction

• 59:03Speaker 02

  comes up, and then you go right back to that area in your life where you start talking bad about yourself and talking yourself out of the blessing that is on the way. So it's very important to speak, you know what I mean? And to speak before you even see it. That's what faith is about. You know what I mean? You know, if you have to say it and believe it, you gotta believe that it will manifest.

• 59:27Mayim Bialik?

  You take the first step in faith, you don't have to see the whole staircase.

• 59:29Jonathan Cohen?

  And we talk a lot about inner narrative.

• 59:32Mayim Bialik?

  I was gonna say that's credited to the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. We need to say that when we say the, my, the steps thing. Before we let you go, here's a weird question to end with. Um, what is a bad day for you now?

• 59:44Speaker 02

  A bad day?

• 59:45Mayim Bialik?

  Meaning like, you still get down? Like you still have days where you feel sad? Like, what is your, what do you do?

• 59:51Speaker 02

  Okay, so the way that I, uh, get out of it is because I get up early in the morning and I spend time with Christ. I spend time with, with just praying, right? But what I do is, is that within that praying, within that meditating, is keeping my family protected and whatever I'm gonna come up against, because he knows I don't know, just like you said earlier, and it's very true. So what I do is, is I go, whatever's gonna come up, I'm gonna keep my joy, no matter what.

• 1:00:21Mayim Bialik?

  How long do you take in the morning?

• 1:00:23Speaker 02

  I take, well, I work out too. So I spend like two hours in the morning. I spend two hours in the morning. I stay first. The first thing is prayer time, meditating.

• 1:00:33Mayim Bialik?

  Why do you meditate? We're very curious. What's your, what's style of meditation do you do? Like you just breathe? You breathe and count? What do you do?

• 1:00:40Speaker 02

  Well, no, yeah, well, definitely praying first, taking it to Christ. And then also with adding a Bible verse to whatever I might be dealing with.

• 1:00:50Mayim Bialik?

  Got it.

• 1:00:51Speaker 02

  So I add a Bible verse to whatever situation that I might be going through.

• 1:00:55Mayim Bialik?

  You're just thinking about it? Like you think hard?

• 1:00:57Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no. No, I have the Bible. I have the Bible there with me.

• 1:01:00Mayim Bialik?

  Got it. Okay.

• 1:01:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I have the Bible there with me. And let's say I'm, it's a financial thing that I want to go through and then I'll look for a verse for that. If it's like anxiety I'm going through, I look for a verse with that, right? And then I spend time just soaking, meaning just to stand in the Holy Spirit and just really take time to pray, you know, for whatever will come up in my day. And that's like a form of meditating, right? Where you're standing there and you're just like, really just letting Him speak to your heart. And I do that while I'm there. And then when I get up, if, when situations happen, then I can tap in immediately and go, oh, okay, there's no mistakes. There's just lessons. Okay, I understand that I'm a walk of my faith. Whatever I talked about earlier, I'm going to do.

• 1:01:44Speaker 02

  You know, I could do all things through Christ who strengthens me. So in this time of my weakness, I'm going to have strength in this time of my weakness. And you can stop and pray at any point. It doesn't have to just be in the morning.

• 1:01:56Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 1:01:56Speaker 02

  It's like I've been in.

• 1:01:57Mayim Bialik?

  You can pray all day if you want to.

• 1:01:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've been in meetings and just, you know, I've stopped and prayed. I'm praying, you know, I pray while I'm smiling, looking at everybody, but I'm praying for my next word. What am I going to say next? Lord, is this, should I do this? Should I, should I do this? I'm going to take it to Him. I, I, I always talk about taking the Lord in your faith in everything you do. Everything you do. That means your career, your family, your marriage and everything. Yeah.

• 1:02:23Mayim Bialik?

  That's really, so this is super duper awesome to get to talk to you about such a variety of things. And you're a very interesting person. I kinda wanna talk more.

• 1:02:32Jonathan Cohen?

  Kel, sometimes we ask for a little retrospective advice. If you could reach out to someone right now who maybe is, you know, has been near that balcony in Canada, metaphorically speaking, who has sort of been in a state where they've taken on grief, the way that you described taking on grief with your uncle. You know, now that you have that distance from it, looking back, what would you say to someone who is, you know, in a place similar to where you were?

• 1:03:04Speaker 02

  You were born for a reason. You have a purpose and you are loved. Everyone has a purpose. And the thing about it is that don't throw your life away. I am such a great example of that. Because if you see, if you look at me and see the things that have happened, and if I just said no, you know what I mean? If I said no, and what would have happened? And I'm looking at like now my kids that were born after that. You know what I mean? And to see them and to hug them and to kiss them and see them grow up and learn life. And just in them, I'll be meeting my beautiful wife after that. And just in the things that have come up with conversations.

• 1:03:47Speaker 02

  It's just like, life is, when you look around, life will be beautiful. You have to find the joy in everything. And I know that could be hard right now. Because what you're looking around at is like, ah, I don't really see that right now. But you have to create that joy within your heart, loving yourself first. And one way of doing that is talking about yourself in that way. Mostly, when we really look at it, there's a hurt this there. And I had a lot of hurt. I really would take myself like, you know, going, ah, if I didn't do this. Oh, Kel, you did this. Ah, this happened, this happened. And I would put myself under the microscope and just be really mean to myself.

• 1:04:30Speaker 02

  And it's really, you got to love yourself first. That's what it's really about. Love yourself first and make yourself say loving things about yourself. Write it down, say it out loud. Say it out loud, say it out loud that I love myself. I'm beautiful. I can make this happen. I can do this because if you do that, if you start doing that, it starts to happen. It's those great affirmations that you just keep saying about yourself every day. And it's a kickstart for your day and you'll start seeing things kind of change around in your life, real talk.

• 1:05:01Mayim Bialik?

  I love that. I believe it. That's it. He made me a believer. Kel Mitchell, this has been a really fascinating, lovely conversation with you. You're awesome. You do so many beautiful things as a comedian and with the lives that you touch and you just, it's such an amazing journey and thank you for letting us be part of it.

• 1:05:18Speaker 02

  Thank you. Get my book too. It's coming out December 14th. I have a book called Blessed Mode.

• 1:05:25Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, I love it.

• 1:05:27Speaker 02

  Super excited about that. Blessed Mode, you know, I'm a gamer too. I like video games, something like that. And you know, there was a thing in video games where it called God Mode, right? Where like if you get, if you get this, you start to understand like the people, the people that designed the video game, they would use this so they can go through the video games really quickly and see what's wrong, right? So with Blessed Mode, it's that same way where now you can also be connected to the Creator who created you and start to navigate life in that same way. A lot of people need that pre-workout to get them excited for the day, to find that joy. So I created a devotional, which is a 90-day challenge.

• 1:06:06Mayim Bialik?

  That's so cool.

• 1:06:08Speaker 02

  In that book, it's stories of my life, things that we covered here. And then it's a Bible verse that goes along with it. It's really what you asked me what I do in the morning. I created it for everybody else to be able to do.

• 1:06:21Mayim Bialik?

  Awesome.

• 1:06:21Speaker 02

  And then at the end of it, I have an apply where they can apply it into their life. So I have them do a challenge at the end of it also. Blessed Mode, December 14th. Pre-orders are open right now. So we're up on Amazon and everywhere.

• 1:06:32Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, that's so awesome. Okay. Well, we will, we will also, we'll make sure. We'll link to it. Yeah, we'll make sure to link to it and give it a special shout out. We'd love to get a copy also. I mean, I can also preorder one.

• 1:06:44Speaker 02

  Our sentience, yes.

• 1:06:44Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, that would be amazing. We give a little stack of books by our guests and I would love to see it. And as a person of faith, I especially would be interested to see. So thank you so much.

• 1:06:56Mayim Bialik?

  I just liked him. Every minute we talked to him, I liked him more and more. He's very likeable.

• 1:06:59Jonathan Cohen?

  The idea that we're all walking around wounded and that we have to take off the Band-Aid to show our true selves, I think is like so, so unavoidably true. And I used to look at adults as like when I was a little person. And I forget what age I was. I was probably in my mid teens somewhere. And I realized that all adults weren't really fully grown and evolved human beings.

• 1:07:25Mayim Bialik?

  No, they're just taller kids.

• 1:07:26Jonathan Cohen?

  Yeah. And so I was like, I wonder how old that adult is. And it's not like, it's not that they're not their age. It's just like emotionally in different moments, we are not always the age we are. We kind of revert wherever we've been, you know, stunted or wounded. And I just think that if we were to identify more that a lot of us are walking around in these states, we don't know what other people are going through, but good chance they're going through something because it's almost impossible not to. We would have a lot more tolerance and kindness for each other.

• 1:07:57Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, his path is so unusual, you know, that he was like this child actor who had already come from so much complexity and loss and challenges, you know? It sounds like his family was a really interesting unit, you know? But then to kind of have this journey of sort of like losing that fame connection and then kind of feeling like you're losing yourself, right? And then to like keep having these opportunities to come back. And, you know, I am a person of faith, but I generally don't resonate, just in general. I don't resonate with people who tend to be very, very Christian based

• 1:08:38Mayim Bialik?

  because a lot of the language is just, I can't really find the universal nature of it. But there was a lot that he said, like when he started talking about his experience, his evangelical experience, like we're watching a documentary that's talking about these kinds of things in South America, like we've experienced these things from holistic practitioners. Like there was a sense of universality, you know, to what he was saying. And this was a very interesting and very kind of developed concept of how God fits into his life. You know, again, doesn't have to be for everybody, but it seems to really work for him. And I found him very authentic, you know?

• 1:09:18Jonathan Cohen?

  I'm gonna tie together a couple of things that he talked about. One, about the things that we carry and how when he was describing being prayed over and having those things released in him, I think.

• 1:09:29Mayim Bialik?

  Demons, he said.

• 1:09:30Jonathan Cohen?

  So I think a lot of people, or some people, might totally understand that. And other people would be like, "Well, I don't know if I understand." Like, "What does that mean?" And...

• 1:09:38Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, a lot of people would be like, "What the... That's insane." That's what a lot of people are gonna say.

• 1:09:43Jonathan Cohen?

  And my approach to that is that we can have a lot of different things that could be classified as that. You know, you could do the standard definition, which is like spiritual warfare, and there are bad entities that are attached to us, and those have to be removed. Another thing can be like there are aspects of ourselves that are unresolved. And when he talked about, you know, again, his uncle and what I heard and my interpretation of it was like him making sense of that enormous loss and grief.

• 1:10:11Mayim Bialik?

  Well, he was carrying so much guilt, you know, misplaced.

• 1:10:15Jonathan Cohen?

  So this is what I was going at, is this misplacement as we try to make sense, because we're all processing and trying to make sense of our experience. And so we make these connections that don't necessarily hold water. I had an experience, and you know, I've talked to you about this in more detail, but the summarized version is I had this body work treatment with someone who used a very specific breathing technique that was like a very fast breathing, including tapping. And I was put back into a, almost a hip...

• 1:10:46Mayim Bialik?

  Tapping is a holistic kind of alternative method of healing, too.

• 1:10:50Jonathan Cohen?

  And it was with someone I knew for a while and trusted greatly. And I ended up going into a meditative hypnotic space where I went back and I saw my brother. It was like I was watching almost a scene unfold before me, and like I was the observer.

• 1:11:07Mayim Bialik?

  And you were awake?

• 1:11:08Jonathan Cohen?

  I was conscious.

• 1:11:10Mayim Bialik?

  Right, right. You weren't asleep. It wasn't a dream.

• 1:11:11Jonathan Cohen?

  It wasn't a dream, but it was as though it was a dream that I was awake for. And I was able to see...

• 1:11:18Mayim Bialik?

  Kind of like our relationship.

• 1:11:20Jonathan Cohen?

  I was able to see my brother in the hospital bed days after he had had this injury where he was like connected to all these tubes and this is a horrific scene. And I could see myself watching him and I could see the emotional impact that that had. And I like, I had this intense visceral experience and I couldn't move my body for a while.

• 1:11:43Mayim Bialik?

  It changed you forever, that experience.

• 1:11:45Jonathan Cohen?

  And so, you know, I can go into more detail at another time, but the short version is that coming out of that, I felt like I had something lifted from me, a level of grief, a level of trauma that I had been carrying. And this is like many decades after the injury that I thought I had processed and I thought I had talked about and I thought I had cried about and was angry about and looked at it from every different angle. And then to still have that sort of sitting in me in that way, it totally transformed me. I felt lighter afterwards. I had a depression that lifted. I ended up changing my life in very short order afterwards. And I just think that whether it's a, whatever you call it,

• 1:12:29Jonathan Cohen?

  there are so many things that people are carrying that they don't necessarily have a way to process. And we talk a lot about therapy. It's amazing, but you know, there are people who are being, using prayer and using meditation and using breath work in ways that, and I think we're just at the beginning of our understanding of what are all the things that are impacting us and all the ways that they impact us. Like, that's where I interpret his notion of the spiritual realm and there's a whole other dynamic that's going on.

• 1:12:57Mayim Bialik?

  The other thing that I really liked that he talked about, which I've, I've heard, but I've never heard someone talk about it this much, was the notion of us having, like, being spiritual beings. Like, having a spiritual self. And, you know, a lot of people say like, "I'm not religious, I'm spiritual." But what that often means is that they're not religious or really like to be very spiritual. But some people are spiritual and not religious. I'm not saying it's not possible. But a lot of people kind of use it as a default, but I like the way he spoke about it. Because even in the most like scientific description of our existence, right? We have a physical... Embodiment. And then we have us, like who we are.

• 1:13:39Mayim Bialik?

  Our personality, like our mind, our heart, like the things that we bring to people, you know? You know, the Jewish concept is that the soul is separate, you know? Like, this is literally a vessel. It was actually when my father passed away. It was like the first time that I understood it when I saw his body. And I was like, that's not him. Like, it really felt like that, you know? That's the vessel that we understood as him. But our existence really is this other realm, like of who we actually are. So I really liked that. It didn't feel like he was like trying to sneak in religion, like, hmm, you have a spiritual self, but really that means accept God. What he meant is that like, there is a, there's an understanding of our positioning in the world.

• 1:14:24Mayim Bialik?

  And a lot of people don't want to go there.

• 1:14:26Jonathan Cohen?

  There's another layer to our experience.

• 1:14:28Mayim Bialik?

  But a lot of people don't want to go there. I mean, I have friends who literally say like, I don't want to cry. I don't want to feel things. I just like move through life. I'm just like, I'm a bulldozer. And that's just how I like to be until something happens or you have to feel your feelings. And then they catch up with you. You can't run from feelings. They're like pee pee. You can try and hold them in, but they're gonna come out.

• 1:14:52Jonathan Cohen?

  The other thing that's really beneficial about doing this type of work is what he mentioned about knowing himself and being really connected to his intuition. Like, I remember earlier in-

• 1:15:03Mayim Bialik?

  You like that a lot.

• 1:15:04Jonathan Cohen?

  Well, I like it because I remember as a teenager, just being so in my head about a decision that I couldn't tell how I felt about it, absence of some rational understanding. And obviously, using reason and rationale is really important. But being able to feel into what something feels like to you-

• 1:15:21Mayim Bialik?

  I don't trust my feelings, so I don't, I can't relate to that. I mean, I'm being super honest. I can't relate to that.

• 1:15:27Jonathan Cohen?

  So I, I did relate because I feel now more than ever that I can have a gut instinct about something.

• 1:15:33Mayim Bialik?

  I don't know. Sometimes you just want your way.

• 1:15:37Jonathan Cohen?

  Says the person who doesn't have gut instinct.

• 1:15:41Mayim Bialik?

  No, we go by your gut instinct. That's how we do.

• 1:15:44Jonathan Cohen?

  That's almost always right. Speaking of always right, let's do an Ask Mayim Anything.

• 1:15:48Speaker 03

  Ask Mayim Anything.

• 1:15:50Jonathan Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:51Speaker 03

  Hi, Mayim. My name is Meg. Obviously, you don't know me, but I have a question about grief and how our brain works, specifically around complicated grief, long-term grief. And I'm curious because I have gone through many phases of healing with grief around therapy, EMDR, non-traditional healing with energy and shamanic healing sessions, lots of different versions of this. And there are periods right around the major loss in my life that I call blackout sadness, where there are things I just don't remember that happened that other people were present for. And so I'm just real curious, kind of those

• 1:16:33Speaker 03

  long-term effects of grief on the brain and functionality, and then the ways that our brain kind of either shuts down or works overtime to get through that process.

• 1:16:43Mayim Bialik?

  Thank you, Meg G. This was fun. We haven't had an audio AMA in a minute. First of all, I just want to sort of acknowledge and honor all of the different modalities that you just mentioned for dealing with grief. Many people don't know what complicated grief is. You know, the short answer is complicated grief is the kind that often takes a lot of modalities to sort of allow you to function through. Complicated grief usually comes from the generic colloquialism is unresolved issues with the person who has passed. And I'm not, I know nothing about Meg's story, but I'm just talking in general about complicated grief. This could refer to someone who also was your abuser. This could refer to someone

• 1:17:23Mayim Bialik?

  you've been estranged from. This could refer to someone who was a very complicated personality or had a lot of personal challenges that makes it hard to sort of have a generic grief experience about. I mean, there's no generic grief, but you know, if someone had, for example, a criminal background or some...

• 1:17:43Mayim Bialik?

  Large moral challenge that they experienced. It might make that kind of grief complicated. So, I can't speak, I'm sure there is research on sort of the long-term effects of grief. You know, I would imagine they're not significantly different from kind of the long-term impacts of depression, you know, or something kind of that's low-level or that can spike. All the things that we can do to improve our mental wellness are things that will benefit a general system that's under any sort of strain, especially from long-term and/or complicated grief. Complicated grief doesn't have to be long-term, but sometimes it is.

• 1:18:25Mayim Bialik?

  You know, the brain is generally protective. The mind, you could say, is also protective. And, you know, the general kind of notion in the academic industry is that your brain will release things to you when you're ready to receive them. You know, most therapists will not, will intentionally not try and force memories or force you to kind of bring out things that are periods of blackness. So, there's a level of acceptance, I think. I mean, Jonathan, I don't know if you have anything to add, because, you know, you're right here. There's a level of acceptance with things that you don't remember, that many people need to come to. You know, kind of having some, I mean, this might sound strange, but having some sort

• 1:19:10Mayim Bialik?

  of ritual around whatever those memories are. You know, some people can do a visualization where you're wrapping them up and you're, you know, putting them somewhere safe, or you're sending them down a gentle river, you know, to go to where they need to go until they need to come back to you. Do you have anything you want to add, Jonathan?

• 1:19:26Jonathan Cohen?

  Yeah, I've had an experience of doing a reconnection to the self ceremony.

• 1:19:30Mayim Bialik?

  Ooh.

• 1:19:31Jonathan Cohen?

  Where, you know, because the question is like, what parts of the brain shut down or work over time? I can't speak specifically to the brain, but I, in my own life, have experienced like a disconnection from part of my capability, or...

• 1:19:43Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, it's all limbic system, if anyone's curious, but yes.

• 1:19:46Jonathan Cohen?

  Less creativity, less sort of overall, you know, what I think...

• 1:19:50Mayim Bialik?

  Joie de vivre.

• 1:19:51Jonathan Cohen?

  Exactly. And so, in, you know, I've done some shamanic soul retrieval work, and in that, if you could only see her face. And in those ceremonies, before you actually do the actual work, there's like a preparation for them, and...

• 1:20:10Jonathan Cohen?

  There's an intention that you set for sort of a week or two ahead of time that says, "Whatever parts of me have been lost, I welcome them back." And you're beginning to set the intention. So if you have these suppressed memories, you're sort of setting the stage or suppressed emotion around a specific issue. You don't have to know what the issue is. You just have to open the channel for this parts of you that you've lost.

• 1:20:31Mayim Bialik?

  And if something is supposed to come through, it will. And if it doesn't, it's not supposed to.

• 1:20:34Jonathan Cohen?

  Exactly. And a little bit of context is that in the shamanic belief system is that when we experience a traumatic event, we lose a little part of ourselves and so we get separated. And that, you know, obviously is not about the brain function, but it's that, a different explanation about it.

• 1:20:49Mayim Bialik?

  That's a kabbalistic concept as well. I hope that was helpful, Meg, and we wish you continued healing. And, you know, I think in complicated grief also, it does become part of you. And in some ways, that's hard. But in some ways, it's also okay because the notion of kind of like fighting grief and feeling like there's going to be an end to it also is not true. I don't think of any grief. So, um, thank you for your question.

• 1:21:14Jonathan Cohen?

  If you want to ask me anything, you could do so at BialikBreakdown.com. That's B I A.

• 1:21:19Mayim Bialik?

  L I K.

• 1:21:20Jonathan Cohen?

  Breakdown.com. Also, check out the Instagram page, @BialikBreakdown.

• 1:21:23Mayim Bialik?

  Follow our Instagram page.

• 1:21:24Jonathan Cohen?

  Don't just check it out.

• 1:21:25Mayim Bialik?

  Don't just check it. You keep telling people to check it out. Follow it.

• 1:21:28Jonathan Cohen?

  Follow.

• 1:21:29Mayim Bialik?

  Follow us on Instagram is what you're supposed to say. BialikBreakdown.

• 1:21:32Jonathan Cohen?

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• 1:21:33Mayim Bialik?

  @BialikBreakdown. From our breakdown to the one we hope you never have, we'll see you next time.