Re-Air: Cassandra "Elvira" Peterson: Happy, Healthy, Dead

In honor of Halloween, we are revisiting our conversation with Cassandra Peterson! Cassandra Peterson ("Elvira, Mistress of the Dark" horror icon) drops by for a super spooky special episode of MBB! She discusses her love for Halloween and the macabre, her time living in a haunted house, and the time she witnessed an actual murder. We hear about her small town beginnings, from growing up on a farm to becoming the youngest showgirl in Vegas history. We delve into the origins of her "Elvira" persona, the confidence the character gives her, and Elvira’s impact on modern culture. Cassandra reflects on her Groundlings comedy days with Paul "Pee-wee Herman" Reubens and Phil Hartman, and her current long term relationship with a woman after being married to a man for 25 years. She breaks down the empowerment that comes from owning your body and sexuality, society’s often impossible standards for women, and the science of mind. Check out our full episode with Cassandra Peterson: https://www.bialikbreakdown.com/listen-podcasts/elvira Subscribe on Substack for Ad-Free Episodes & Bonus Content: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BialikBreakdown.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.bialikbreakdown.com/ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube.com/mayimbialik⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/mayimbialik%E2%81%A0 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Network freedom and flexibility. That's what you want in a healthcare plan. With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals. No kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 0:33Mayim Bialik?

  Hi, I'm Iain Bialik.

• 0:34Jonathan Cohen?

  And I'm Jonathan.

• 0:35Mayim Bialik?

  And welcome to our Breakdown.

• 0:39Mayim Bialik?

  That's my spooky Halloween sound. Today's Halloween. We're revisiting our episode from 2022 with the mistress of dark herself. You may know her as Elvira, but her name is actually Cassandra Peterson.

• 0:53Jonathan Cohen?

  Cassandra discusses her love for Halloween and the macabre and her time living in a haunted house, which was so cool, and that she witnessed an actual murder.

• 1:02Mayim Bialik?

  We were really fascinated to hear about her small-town beginnings because I'm always curious with people like Elvira. How did she get from wherever she came from to there? She grew up on a farm. She was the youngest showgirl in Vegas history. There's also some incredible stories from those days. She's also going to talk about Elvira's impact on modern culture, the confidence that the character gave her and still gives her. She's also going to talk about her Groundlings comedy days, which I had no idea about, with Paul Rubens, also known as Pee-wee Herman, and also her long-term relationship with a woman after being married to a man for 25 years. She also talks about empowerment, sexual empowerment, owning your own body, your own sexuality, society's impossible standards for women,

• 1:47Mayim Bialik?

  and the science of mind. We really covered everything with her.

• 1:51Jonathan Cohen?

  Just a reminder, before we get to this episode, if you haven't already, check us out on Substack, Iain Bialik's Breakdown on Substack. Join the growing Breaker community exploring the intersection of science and spirituality and get exclusive content that you cannot get anywhere else.

• 2:06Mayim Bialik?

  And now, woo! We hope you enjoy taking a look back at our episode with Cassandra Peterson and happy All Hallows' Eve.

• 2:17Mayim Bialik?

  I was born in 1975, so I literally remember being a young child and seeing this incredible presence that became really such an iconic part of not really just like the horror universe, but really our kind of general culture. And, you know, I grew up with like Angeline and Elvira. Those were the two women that I thought I'm supposed to be like. And I think I'm more of an Elvira than an Angeline, as it turns out.

• 2:51Speaker 03

  I hope so.

• 2:52Mayim Bialik?

  Your career, obviously as Elvira, is what so many people know you for and love you for, but you also, you know, created such an iconic character that really is timeless, you know, for so many of us. And darker culture and goth culture and all these things that came after, you know, Elvira feels to me so interconnected with what you created. In learning a bit more about you, and obviously we're talking about your book, yours cruelly, Elvira: Memoirs of the Mistress of the Dark, and are there two covers? Is that what it is with the one that's now available?

• 3:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, there are actually three. There's one that my fans voted on, that they liked the best. And so we made that for independent bookstores exclusively. And you can grab that at any local bookstore. And then we made one that is the same as the cover for the book that came out, the hardcover. And then we made a little special one that is going to be sold just basically through my website that people haven't seen yet. That's kind of a surprise one.

• 3:58Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, that's very, very exciting. And growing up, again, with you as, you know, this presence, you know, in my home for so many things, not just related to Halloween, but really throughout the year. You know, I'll be honest, I never wanted to know anything else about you, except that you were Elvira. And to now get to learn so many incredible things. You are from a place called Manhattan, Kansas?

• 4:23Speaker 03

  Yes, the Little Apple.

• 4:28Mayim Bialik?

  And you grew up, did you grow up on a proper farm, like just like Dorothy?

• 4:32Speaker 03

  On a farm, my parents grew something called Milo, which nobody seems to know what that is. I don't even know. It's some kind of cow feed. But yeah, I grew up on a farm that used to be my grandparents and then they kind of handed it over to my mom and dad. And it didn't really work out that great.

• 4:48Mayim Bialik?

  Were you the kind of kid who always knew you were meant for bigger things? And you wanted to get out of that small town and go to the big city? Was that you?

• 4:57Speaker 03

  That pretty much was me from the time my parents stuck me on a table at a Greek restaurant, dancing and singing, how much is that doggy in the window? And people threw coins at me and I go, okay, I really like this.

• 5:15Speaker 03

  I think that's the moment it hit me.

• 5:17Mayim Bialik?

  You're a very also special icon for those of us who, you know, may have grown up in an era where we didn't talk about feminism or empowerment, but I always knew, even as a child, that there was something so, you were so in, in your body and in yourself and you owned, you know, what, what especially to young kids was sexy. But also there was something very powerful about you and the way you handled yourself. And I think for a lot of, a lot of boys and girls, we may have never seen that, you know, in this generation of a woman owning that the way you did, really before its time. You were very attractive and I'm wondering if when you were little, was that something people commented about? Was that part of the attention you got?

• 6:02Mayim Bialik?

  Like, were you like that gorgeous girl in Kansas that everyone was like, who's that lady?

• 6:07Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no, no. I think if you look at my book and see some of the photos in it, you'll see that I was not a good looking child. I mean, I had a Tony perms, which my mom gave me all the time. So I had this frizzy short hair, then I wore little cat eye shaped glasses. Cause I was, couldn't see two feet in front of me. I was just a total nerd and a geek. No, no, I was not a, not a good looking kid. It's not somebody who's, no one used to say, oh, what a pretty little girl. No.

• 6:40Mayim Bialik?

  Huh. So when did you kind of come into, I mean, you, you became a go-go dancer and then eventually, I believe the youngest Vegas showgirl, I think. I think you still hold that record.

• 6:52Speaker 03

  As far as I know, I do. I was, I think it was in the Guinness Book of World Records, but I was told I was the youngest. I, I started when I was 17.

• 7:01Mayim Bialik?

  You weren't wearing cat eye glasses then. Like by then you had become like this girl who's like, I'm gonna go to Vegas.

• 7:07Speaker 03

  No, I'll tell you what happened. I don't know what happened. I think, I think I owe it to Ann-Margret in Bye Bye Birdie and Viva Las Vegas. I saw her in those movies when I was about 13 and 14 and I go, that's what I want to be. That's what I want to look like. But, and I, I don't know. It just, it changed everything for me. I, I, you know, I, I threw away the glasses. I started wearing contacts and, and started doing my hair differently. Met some drag queens who gave me fantastic makeup tips and it just all changed for me right around puberty.

• 7:47Speaker 03

  I went from super homely little geek girl to like super sexy, you know.

• 7:55Mayim Bialik?

  Were your parents supportive of you kind of leaving to pursue this dream of, you know, eventually heading to Hollywood?

• 8:01Speaker 03

  Not all that much. No, no. They thought it was a pretty stupid idea. They were always telling me, well, you can do that, but you better think of something, a normal job that you can make money at because you can't live, you know, on, on, there's nothing out there in Hollywood. No, I wouldn't call them supportive. I mean, they were cautious. They thought it was cool. Once in a while when I, well, when I got to be a showgirl in Vegas, they, they thought, wow, she, she wasn't kidding. She's really doing this thing. So they became a little more supportive as time went on. But initially, I mean, if your daughter is 14 and wants to be a go-go girl, you don't say, yeah, that's awesome. You know.

• 8:40Mayim Bialik?

  I know it's a really broad, possibly dumb question. What was Vegas like then?

• 8:46Speaker 03

  Vegas was awesome then, and I always tell people, God, I wish, wish, wish it could go back to those days. I mean, for one thing, if you went to see a show in Vegas, women wore floor-length gowns, little mink stalls, and the guys were in either tuxedos or very fancy suit. And, you know, the Rat Pack was playing there. And, I mean, going to a show there was amazing. You'd have like a four-course meal and champagne and watch the show. And it was, it was so classy. It really, really was, especially to me, coming from, you know, Kansas. But now, like, it's, you know, you have to have, I think they have rules, the dress code,

• 9:30Speaker 03

  that you have to have your butt crack showing and you have to, you know, wear Bermuda shorts and a torn T-shirt, and that's how you get in a show. I don't know. But I go there today and I'm so disappointed. I, I wish there was somewhere like Vegas used to be. But there isn't.

• 9:48Mayim Bialik?

  No, not that I know of. If I, if I find it, I'll tell you and we can go together.

• 9:51Speaker 03

  Let me know, I'll go there.

• 9:52Mayim Bialik?

  How long were you in Vegas, kind of, living that life?

• 9:56Speaker 03

  I went there in 1969 and I think I left in 1971. I had a one-year-long contract and, um, from the time the show started until I left. And then I moved to France. I don't know why, but, um, yeah. So, so about a year and a half altogether.

• 10:17Mayim Bialik?

  Okay. You eventually made your way to Los Angeles. You were in the Groundlings.

• 10:24Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 10:25Mayim Bialik?

  At some point, you, you want to sort of take things to the next level and move into the acting world. How did that transition happen?

• 10:32Speaker 03

  Well, it was kind of a long way from Vegas to Hollywood via Europe. And I was in a band and tried to do some other shows, singing shows and some other various bands. I got in a band called Mama's Boys, went all over the country for four and a half years. But eventually I just made a decision in my mind that I was getting too old to be a dancer. And I wasn't that great of a singer and I made up my mind, the next step should be acting. I was like, where do I go from here? All I knew how to do was showbiz. I'd never done any other job. I mean, once in a while miscellaneous table waiting or temporary secretary, but I had no career and I hadn't attended college or anything.

• 11:17Speaker 03

  So, you know, what was I gonna do? So I decided I would, I would get into acting. And when I moved to LA, probably in about, can't remember exactly, seventy-four, seventy-five, started taking various acting classes, but it was a long haul before I got to The Groundlings. I didn't get into The Groundlings till late seventies, I think seventy-eight or seventy-nine. And then I was in there for four and a half years with Phil Hartman, Paul Rubens, John Paragon, who was my writing partner and played John B. The Genie on Peewee's Playhouse.

• 11:49Mayim Bialik?

  Oh gosh, that's awesome.

• 11:51Speaker 03

  Yeah. And, and anyway, and I gotta say that I think The Groundlings was the, probably the best thing I ever did for my career. It really, really was. It taught me to think on my feet and, you know, I wasn't that good at reading lines or anything. So it's, it's really important. I mean, if people are looking to get to be in comedy, I, I can't think of a better launching pad than being in The Groundlings. So many people have come out of there, as you know.

• 12:21Mayim Bialik?

  No, it's, I mean, it's such an historic place. And I'm just thinking of the time that you were doing all these things. It was like a real other era, you know, of Hollywood that you kind of began in. And I guess that's because you started so young. But then to be in The Groundlings, you were at The Groundlings in such a, you know, a fertile time for, for comedy, especially in Los Angeles. And the genesis of Elvira, as we know her, if I'm understanding this correctly, came from

• 12:51Mayim Bialik?

  A character you were doing at Groundlings, which was not Elvira, but describe how we get from Groundlings to Elvira.

• 12:59Speaker 03

  I did a character in there and I didn't have very many characters. I was not a great character person. My character was the sexy girl, the girlfriend, the showgirl, the stripper. That's what I played, all of those parts in the Groundlings. Weird, right? And so I wasn't great at characters, but I did have this one character that was a blossoming actress. And she was on an audition with another Groundling. We were sitting there at an audition. We were wearing exactly the same dress, had the same hair, everything. And we turned to each other and go, I like your dress. And we're just a couple of dorks in Hollywood. And I was doing a little bit of a Valley Girl thing because Frank Zappa and Moon

• 13:44Speaker 03

  had just put out the song Valley Girl. So, and we knew those type of girls. Boy, did we, they were all over LA. So we were being kind of like that, you know? And the director of the TV show, that was a local TV show, saw me in that character. And decided he really liked me and called me in for the audition. You know, and getting an audition for a part late night on local TV wasn't exactly my dream job. I had just lost the part of Ginger on Gilligan's Island, just by a hair. And so this was like, you know, it'll be a little money, but what the hell? At least I won't have to book more ten secretary jobs.

• 14:28Speaker 03

  So anyway, that's how that kind of happened. I went on the audition and there were lots of women there and I got the part.

• 14:34Mayim Bialik?

  So what was the audition for specifically?

• 14:37Speaker 03

  A horror hostess who they were going to call Vampira.

• 14:40Mayim Bialik?

  And did you, what did you go in looking like?

• 14:43Speaker 03

  I went in kind of like this. I had red hair. I had on a turquoise dress, same color as this, and little white sandals. And I would just la la la, went in. And when I walked into the room, I was surrounded by women in long black dresses with long black hair and fangs put in. And it was one of those moments like, oh, my God, I showed up at the wrong party. So it was a miracle that I still got the part. I don't know.

• 15:10Mayim Bialik?

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• 16:36Mayim Bialik?

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• 16:40Speaker 00

  Network freedom and flexibility. That's what you want in a healthcare plan. With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals, no kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 17:10Mayim Bialik?

  And then from there, how was Elvira as we know her born? Because, and again, Jonathan, there's a very specific personality that goes along with Elvira. And it's, you know, it's not sort of a traditional, you know, female kind of host. I mean, there were many females on television at this time, but most of them were kind of eye candy, you know? It was like the ladies on Price is Right. It was that kind of thing. So to have, you know, this was a woman kind of owning this space with a very specific give zero Fs kind of about other people's person. I mean, at least that's sort of my reading. But how was that, both the look and that attitude, born?

• 17:50Speaker 03

  I wish I could say I sat down and had a nice, you know, there was a concerted effort to make it that way. But I was grabbing at straws, to tell you the truth. I was like, okay, I got this job. I have to look like a sexy, scary, uh, something. I didn't know what a horror host was. I know I'm supposed to look sexy. I know I'm supposed to look spooky. And I got one of my best friends, a guy named Robert Redding, to help me. He was an artist, so he drew a couple of renderings of what we thought it might look like. We were going for Sharon Tate in The Fearless Vampire Killers in like a sheer, gauzy, pink dress with long, flowing red hair and, and, you know, kind of dead girl eyes and lips. And the station, when we walked in with that sketch,

• 18:35Speaker 03

  we're like, no, no, no, no, no. She has to have black hair, black dress, you know, the whole black. So back to the drawing board. We brought in a picture. It was kind of an updated 80s punk, groovy sort of vampire, female vampire look. You know, we wanted to make it sexy, but we had this plunging neckline. I told my friend Robert, they're never gonna go for this. And they just stayed with the picture for a while and said, could you make the slit on the leg higher? And that was it. You know, it's local TV. It's coming on late at night. They just wanted ratings. So.

• 19:08Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, I, my, my mind is blown in so many ways, just thinking about sort of like the evolution of this. And it's true. There was a very kind of Joan Jett meets, you know, vampire meets. I mean, it was, it was all the things kind of coming together. And in terms of the, the personality, because, you know, I, I do, I love this story. It's like a small town farm girl, like makes good and like goes to Vegas and shows her parents. Like there's more to the world than just our little farm. And then like you go to LA and of course you're like, you're struggling, but also like you're living this dream that is so far, you know, from what you came from. And then we get here and you are, you know, a woman ahead of her time in terms of being given this position to also own your identity. So many women we

• 19:52Mayim Bialik?

  were seeing on television at that time, were being designed by old white men. And this character, it, it felt like, you know, it felt like it was you. Like it felt so authentic. When I watched you, this is this lady. Where was that personality from?

• 20:09Speaker 03

  Um, I've thought a lot about the personality and, and I've always said to people, uh, there's nothing about Elvira that's like me. But I, one day it dawned on me that Elvira is my personality when I was a teenager.

• 20:23Mayim Bialik?

  Wow.

• 20:24Speaker 03

  I was the biggest loudmouth, smart ass. You couldn't tell me anything. I knew everything. And I was just gonna be super hot and sexy and ballsy. And, and, uh, you know, as time went on, I, life kind of tempered all of that, I guess, you know, I think a little more, you know, modest, I guess. But I think about Elvira and I think that's how I was when I was a teenager. I just didn't take any crap from anybody. And I was such a, uh, parent's worst nightmare, I guess. But I, I really think that's where the personality came from. And. I have a lot of people also who participated in helping me be that way. My writer, John Paragon, my friend, Robert Redding, you know, and a million and one gay men.

• 21:07Speaker 03

  Really, I think I totally categorize Hellfire as a drag queen. I am 100% a drag queen. There's nothing different about me and any drag queen I know, except I don't tuck. You know, but other than that, we're pretty much exactly the same. And the other important part is I own my character. So I get to do it the way I want. There's no one with input into my character or my business that I don't want. So that is incredibly lucky. As you know, Pee Wee Herman, Paul Rubin's also is the same. I think he always says we're the members of the most exclusive club in the world. There's just two of us, basically.

• 21:48Speaker 03

  This would be called Jean Simmons or Alice Cooper is someone part of that club. But not many people own their characters.

• 21:58Jonathan Cohen?

  I'm curious how that happened because it was a role that you auditioned for, but then they allowed you to own the rights to the character. How did that work?

• 22:05Speaker 03

  Well, it was kind of weird. They, they, we asked for more money every, every year. We asked if I could be bumped up from the $350 I was making each week.

• 22:16Mayim Bialik?

  Stop it.

• 22:16Speaker 03

  For the number one, yeah, number one show on their, on their local station.

• 22:21Mayim Bialik?

  Everyone was likely profiting, except the actual person who was creating it.

• 22:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I was buying the props. I was setting the lights sometime. I was writing it with my partner, John. We were doing everything and it was their number one rated show. And I was getting $350. They bumped me up finally all the way to $500 a week before taxes. But I still had to work temporary secretary jobs during the day to pay my rent. I'm making like nothing. And we asked for more for a pay raise and they say no. So we said, how about just the rights to be able to have a fan club? So I can make a little money, you know, charge people like five bucks and.

• 23:02Mayim Bialik?

  Amazing.

• 23:03Speaker 03

  Make a fan club. So they said yes. Then we asked them, I, I got asked to be on a couple of other shows like Chips and, oh, I don't know, what other show? And we asked them for the rights to use the character on another show and they said yes. Then we just kept asking for little rights and one day we owned them all.

• 23:20Mayim Bialik?

  How many years did it take from you being that young woman who got this audition to you kind of having ownership over, I am the boss of this company, meaning, you know, having that ownership, not just kind of legally, but how long did it take for you to kind of not have to work those other jobs and say like, this is my company, is being this person?

• 23:44Speaker 03

  It wasn't that long. It wasn't that long. It was maybe a period of five or so years. And I think getting the movie finally in 1987, so that was about six years later, but getting my film Mistress of the Dark with NBC, that was kind of the launching pad where we said, oh, this thing is bigger than just a local LA phenomenon.

• 24:06Mayim Bialik?

  I'm curious what your personal life was like then. You are not married currently, but you were married to someone for 25 years. Were you married young? Like, were you with someone through all of this? Were you Elvira more than you were you at that time? Or were you still kind of balancing identities with work and personal life?

• 24:22Speaker 03

  I had just married my then-husband two weeks before I got the character of Elvira, which has turned out to be very, very unfortunate as far as a divorce goes.

• 24:33Mayim Bialik?

  I get it.

• 24:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, okay, I won't go into that any further. But he worked as my manager. We were like, wow, this thing. He was basically an out-of-work musician. And he worked with me to try to kind of exploit the character. We met another manager, a guy who managed Todd Rundgren and Bill Wyman of the Rolling Stones and a few, you know, rock acts. And he had little management expertise. So he, together with my husband, set up a lot of things and got a lot of things going for me because I was really, I didn't know what the hell to do.

• 25:14Mayim Bialik?

  So what was it kind of like, you know, once you were able to stop working sort of day jobs and this sort of was your day job, were you able to be anonymous? Did you sort of live that dual identity?

• 25:24Speaker 03

  Yes, I lived 100% that dual identity, which was the best, best thing about. My career. Honestly, I knew a lot of other celebrities and it can be a pain in the butt to be famous, especially when you live in LA, you know, you can't go out to dinner and not be bothered. You can't have a private walk in the park. You can't go shopping at the grocery store without people stopping. You were taking pictures of you and you know, you don't put makeup on or anything. And then, then you end up on the cover of the National Enquirer saying, only days to live, you know, stuff like that. So I was the luckiest celebrity alive. I was completely anonymous. Not so much these days because people are starting to become aware of me doing other things.

• 26:09Speaker 03

  But back then in the eighties, nineties and even early two thousands, I never, never, never got recognized out of drag. So I could be famous when I wanted to and party and do all the fun things that, that fame affords you. And I could be a private, normal person when I wanted to, which was amazing.

• 26:30Mayim Bialik?

  That's really, it's incredible. You had a daughter. What was that experience like? I mean, obviously you had a, you know, a career and you know, that's a big decision for a lot of women in Hollywood, right? Like, when do you have a child? When do you do that to your body and your existence? What was that like for you?

• 26:47Speaker 03

  Well, I had wanted to have a child for a long time, since I was thirty four. I don't know. I never had wanted to earlier. I got to be thirty four and all of a sudden it was my number one goal. Just, I don't know why. Some hormones or something must have kicked in. But it was actually a great experience. I sort of thought, oh yay, at least I get nine months where I don't work. Wrong. Through my home pregnancy, I did a mom's workout video when I was nine months pregnant. I did Coors beer commercials just from the head up. A lot of photo sessions, just again, from the chest up.

• 27:22Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, my, my teeth look pregnant, so I did not have that when I, when I was pregnant. I could not have done a photo shoot to literally save my child's life. But I'm happy for you that you had that experience.

• 27:33Speaker 03

  It was, it was, I tell you, my pregnancy was one of the best times of my life. And, and then I had a great birth and everything. I was pretty old. I was forty three when, when I had her. But it went great. And that was after six miscarriages for the previous six years. So she was seventh one and lucky number seven.

• 27:55Speaker 03

  But anyway, yeah, me having that split personality afforded some normalcy in our life, you know, where she wasn't like the child of a celebrity. She had a pretty, pretty regular upbringing, except that I was Elvira. Yeah, for that part.

• 28:11Mayim Bialik?

  I remember when my kids were old enough to realize I wasn't just mom, but that other people owned me. And, you know, when I would put on hair and makeup, which obviously is not, and maybe it was to my children as significant as, you know, you putting on your Elvira, you know, drag, as you called it. But I remember when my kids were little, they, Miles used to say, no clown, no clown. He thought I looked like a clown, you know, when I wore any makeup. And it would really freak them out if, you know, my hair was done. And, you know, they were still little, but, you know, I remember there was that, that kind of realization. And, you know, my kids didn't, didn't know who I was really to other people, because I was on a, let's say, a TV show or something that they were

• 28:53Mayim Bialik?

  too young to even understand or watch. But with you as this kind of persona that didn't just exist on a show, you know, it's, it was kind of an entire movement and universe that you revolved in. Did your daughter have a different concept of you as someone who works out of the house doing something different?

• 29:11Speaker 03

  You know, I was Elvira a lot from the time she was born. I mean, I have pictures of her when she's just the tiniest, tiniest little baby, maybe a month old, you know? And we were always, of course, putting her in Elvira situations. We'd have the wig on her and we'd have her with a dagger and with a snake. And so she kind of grew up with all that. So I don't think it was too bizarre for her really seeing me like that. She was really into Halloween. We were into Halloween. So it wasn't, wasn't too weird. But she did really grow to not like the character. I mean, and it wasn't not liking me. It was just, I couldn't have gotten her in an Elvira costume to save my soul after

• 29:50Speaker 03

  she got old enough to talk. So she liked Halloween, but is not, not a big fan of the character. I think, I think she probably feels better about it now. But I don't know. She was, yeah, not a fan.

• 30:05Mayim Bialik?

  Is she in the industry?

• 30:07Speaker 03

  Uh, no, very good musician, but musician and an artist.

• 30:12Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, I'm so fascinated just about the fact that you have a child because also, you know, the Elvira was, you know, I mean, it's like she never aged. She was just this one, you know, she represented kind of all of youth and all of maturity, you know, all at once. You were married for 25 years, which is a long haul.

• 30:30Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 30:31Mayim Bialik?

  And you are divorced and you ended up meeting someone and the story is actually incredible that you thought it was a bad boy and it turned out to be a bad girl. And it's a beautiful story and also, I think, really wonderful that you're willing to share it with people so that, you know, people can also access more parts of the human, you know, behind this person and this image. I'm not sure how much you like to or want to talk about it and, you know, I'm less curious, like, did you always think you were a lesbian? I'm not necessarily curious to poke it at that, but I am curious about, you know, being with someone for 25 years is a huge amount of time and to sort of have this second opportunity at a new relationship. Can you speak to that a little bit?

• 31:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, I never thought of myself as possibly gay. A lot of people in interviews have said, "When did you know you were gay?" And I, uh, I didn't. I still don't. I don't know. I guess I am, but I'm with a female partner, but I never had thoughts. I mean, if you read my book, you'll see that I was with a lot of guys.

• 31:41Mayim Bialik?

  Yes, no, I, a lot of very, very famous guys.

• 31:45Speaker 03

  And no women before. I often tell people, I say, "Why are you with a woman?" I say, "I ran out of guys." Anyway, no, I met her and it's funny, you were just talking about after I got pregnant and your body and I was a little worried about, you know, I mean, I gave birth at 43 years old. I thought, is my body ever gonna be back into shape again? And so I quickly went to get a trainer and start working out, which I really hadn't done before that.

• 32:12Mayim Bialik?

  You were just naturally thin and stunning and perfect.

• 32:15Speaker 03

  Well, thank you. Believe me, it takes a lot of work and it takes more work every day. But I went to the gym, to Gold's Gym in Hollywood and started training. And after a couple of years with my male trainer, he was moving on and suggested this female trainer that was there, and that was, that was my partner, T. But it was six, six years after that until we became like, got into a relationship. I just looked at her as a friend and my trainer. I liked her very much. She had a partner. I had my husband. We were nothing but friends, platonic relationship. And, um, and then I got divorced and I really, really thought, you know,

• 32:58Speaker 03

  I got divorced at 50 years old and I really thought, this is it for me. No more relationships. I'm done. This is over. It was such a brutal divorce and it was so awful to put my child through, especially when I thought, I don't want any more relationships in my life. Next thing I know, I'm in a relationship with a woman. I don't know how that happened. I can't tell you really. I don't know. I don't know what happened. She's very, very attractive to me anyway, obviously, and sexy and, and very, very sweet and kind. Everybody that meets her really loves her. Very private person though. She doesn't like to be in the spotlight, ever.

• 33:35Mayim Bialik?

  Is she younger? I'm, I'm curious how much younger?

• 33:37Speaker 03

  10 years younger. Exactly the same as my husband was. 10 years. I like him younger.

• 33:44Speaker 03

  Apparently, apparently. I don't know.

• 33:46Mayim Bialik?

  Um, and this is a question I would ask whether the person you were with was male or female or non-binary. You know, knowing each other, let's say for six years, was there ever any thought in your mind, like, I would really be curious about this person romantically or sexually? Or was it literally like not even part of your?

• 34:02Speaker 03

  I thought she was pretty sexy. I mean,

• 34:04Mayim Bialik?

  Got it.

• 34:05Speaker 03

  I mean, you mentioned briefly that story about where I was on the treadmill, warming up, and I looked over and I saw this super hot guy. I mean, you know, I was still a horn dog, uh, even though I was married, I wasn't dead. And, And I see this super hot guy every day I see him walking around the gym and I'm just like, oh my god, muscles and tattoos and ah, so hot. And one day I walk into the ladies' room and bam, straight into him. And it turned out to be T. So yeah, I, I thought she was really sexy. But I also have a lot of girlfriends, meaning girlfriend, friends that are girls, were also very sexy. And I, I appreciate them go, wow, damn, they're so hot. They're, you know, awesome.

• 34:49Speaker 03

  But, but I don't want to jump on them, you know?

• 34:55Mayim Bialik?

  Kind of going back to the, the persona, you know, and, and I, I talked a little bit about sort of what the kind of empowerment and sexuality that, you know, that Elvira, I think, held for a lot of, of women. When you kind of look at the, the sort of landscape of, you know, a lot of the confusion and complexity about women and how we're treated and how we dress and should we dress this way and what if they think this? And, you know, you, you've also, you've been in a position where you were a vulnerable woman and you know what that is like as well. I'm curious sort of, you know, as, as a mature woman who has also

• 35:38Mayim Bialik?

  lived through, you know, a few decades in the industry, I'm curious what that's sort of, what it means to you when you think about the struggles women have about sexuality, about empowerment. What, what does your experience, what can you tell us?

• 35:55Speaker 03

  Hmm, God, I wish I had a, I wish I had something brilliant to tell you. I don't know. It's, it's hard for women. You know, it always sounds like sour grapes when you say, oh, I didn't get that job because I'm a woman or, oh, I didn't get that because my shirt, my skirt was too short or I got, I mean, All of that, where does that matter and why? I mean, I, I mean, I think I decided when I was young, I'm going to wear whatever I want to wear and, you know, fuck everybody else. And what does clothes have to do with and how you want to look and how you want to be? What does that have to do with who you are or anything? But obviously it does because it puts you in some pretty scary situations.

• 36:40Speaker 03

  I mean, I ran around wearing incredibly low cut sexy clothes. I mean, I was a go-go girl, showgirl, you know? And I was never shy. Hmm, but it got you in some bad situations, you know? That shouldn't have happened. But, you know, women can never, can never get off that. I mean, I mean, today they're talking about a woman, 22 year old woman in, in Iran, who wasn't wearing her hijab tightly enough. It was too loose and they killed her. Um, and there are huge, you know, protests happening right now. But if, if you give in, if you give in and go, oh yeah, I shouldn't wear that low cut dress. I'll wear something higher. And then they say that's too low. And then they say higher and then that's too low.

• 37:25Speaker 03

  And they say higher, cover your face, cover your, everything you have. Don't be a woman, be a black blob of whatever. You know what? There, there, there's no, if you just keep going with how whoever they are, the, I don't know, it's the Christian right, the moral majority, whoever they are, there's no end. There'll be just women don't exist, go away, disappear, don't exist as, as a human being, maybe as an object.

• 37:58Mayim Bialik?

  A very well said. I mean, you said you wished you had something brilliant to say. I, I think that's very well said. Do you think that because, you know, you were, I'm, I'm using your, your phrasing, because you were in drag, because Elvira was this, you know, in some ways other worldly kind of character? Do you think there were different rules for you than there were for other women? Meaning that it allow you to do more?

• 38:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, it gave me a lot of license and strangely, when I was in that drag, I took a lot of license. I felt like I could get away with anything. I don't know why. I feel a lot more confident, a lot more ballsy, wearing that outfit. It's really strange. I don't know exactly what to attribute that to, but I don't have the same type of confidence as myself. I mean, I'm pretty confident, but not like that, not like Elvira.

• 38:48Mayim Bialik?

  Well, I was thinking what you said, though, that Elvira represented some aspects of you as a teenager. And, you know, obviously, I have an almost seventeen-year-old and a fourteen-year-old, so I totally get, you know, obstinate teenagers who don't give an F what you think and think you're the dumbest person in the world if you're the parent. But I also think there's something really interesting to the brazenness that we have as teenagers, and I think especially women, you know, when we can, really, we're coming into our bodies, we're coming into our feelings, and we have all these hormones, but we do, we're kind of expressing exactly what we're feeling. And I, it's so interesting then that, I don't mean to sound like a hippie, but then when we grow older and you have to, like, tamp it down, you know, like, put on your dress pants and, you

• 39:33Mayim Bialik?

  know, say, yes, please, thank you, sir, and like, signs, everywhere, signs, you know, fucking up the scenery.

• 39:41Speaker 03

  Signs, signs.

• 39:42Mayim Bialik?

  Exactly.

• 39:43Speaker 03

  Don't set me off on that, so.

• 39:46Jonathan Cohen?

  Well, you also start to know that whatever you're gonna say is gonna have some reaction, and so it becomes less worth it. As a young person, you're like, this is right, and it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. And then after a while, you're like, all right, if I do this, I'm gonna get that response, and then I'm gonna have to deal with this. And it's like, better to just sort of skirt the issue and live my own life than to constantly confront or put things in other people's faces that then you're gonna get backlash for. And so it's like, yeah, do I really wanna say that anymore? You have more foresight into how your actions are going to have reactions. And so it becomes not about suppressing yourself, but it's about picking your spots more.

• 40:31Speaker 03

  That's the sad thing, I guess. If, you know, if you could, if everybody could stay thinking like children, the world would be a lot better place. But as you grow older, then you get like to be a rebellious teen. And then you're, you're exactly right. Your personality kind of gets tamped down, you know, just because you're saying, if I do this, I'm not going to get that. And pretty soon, you know, you're like a lot of people.

• 40:56Mayim Bialik?

  Well, and that's what I was just gonna say. It's about being authentic, right? And the more you sort of feel the need to conform and do what other people are doing. And I think for women and, you know, with the media pressures and things and culturally, it's different, but for men as well. It's like you're, you're basically told be like the other people. And any parts of you that are resistant or rebellious, or some might say interesting, you know, that's not welcome. Why was Elvira so popular in the Bible Belt?

• 41:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, isn't that wacky? Because I think people who repress their sexual urges are the people who become weirdos and creeps and pedophiles and all of that stuff, you know? But when people go after like other people who are that way, it's because they really might feel that way themselves and want to be sure that they, you know, stuff it back down in there.

• 41:47Mayim Bialik?

  I'm sure one of the things that you're asked probably most about, or I would imagine it's got to be in the top five, is are you really a Halloween person? Are you really a spooky person? You lived apparently in a house that was haunted? I need to know, like, obviously, you, you must have had to sort of take on some of that, you know, as, as part of your world because you were so immersed in it. But can you speak to that and then tell us about the haunted house?

• 42:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, I really am a Halloween person. I was when I was a kid. I talk about in my book how I went to see House on Haunted Hill with Vincent Price, starring Vincent Price. My cousin took me and I was fascinated. I'd never seen anything like that. I was about in third grade, I think. I became obsessed with Frankenstein and Dracula and all this creepy stuff. I started buying Famous Monsters magazine and ordering model kits out of the back of it to, to paint, you know? I mean, my sisters were playing with Barbies and I was playing with Frankenstein and Wolfman, you know? Uh. So I really, really was into that very, very much. And um, all my life kept this.

• 42:53Speaker 03

  I I don't know, things like my favorite shows were like the Addams Family, Twilight Zone. I just, I just love the spooky and I loved Halloween. Halloween was the biggest holiday for me and my family because, believe it or not, my mother and my aunt ran a costume shop. And so Halloween was the biggest deal for my family. We decorated like crazy because she got all this great stuff in her shop that she sold. Everybody dressed up in costume, you know, we could have the best costumes because they were free. So yeah, my whole life was very, very Halloweeny and I, I couldn't have done the job of Elvira. I couldn't have done the movie or hosting. If I had not been into these movies, I

• 43:39Speaker 03

  uh, nobody could sit through all the movies I have sat through and and like, uh, nobody, nobody, if you weren't into it. I went through that phase for about hmm, seven or eight years where I wanted everything in the house to be spooky and dark. My gate in the front of the house was a big giant metal spider web that opened. The whole house was dark and decorated with, with, you know, just all kinds of spooky stuff that I could find, antiques and everything. But we move into that house and I have a whole chapter in my book about that house. The house was called Briar Cliff Manor.

• 44:14Mayim Bialik?

  It's already spooky.

• 44:16Speaker 03

  Yes, it's already spooky when we move in. And um, one thing after another happened there and I had never had any of those experiences happen before. And you know, I was like thirty five years old by then, never had them happen after, after we sold the house to Brad Pitt, by the way.

• 44:34Mayim Bialik?

  To Brad Pitt, it's the best part of the story.

• 44:38Speaker 03

  Is that awesome? Uh, that was the best part about that house. And um, it was just crazy, the stuff that happened in that house. I got to be really, really paranoid about living there. Did not feel good about it. There had been several deaths there that were violent. But the house was built in nineteen, can't remember now, nineteen oh six, nineteen ten, I can't remember, but early, early nineteen hundreds.

• 45:03Speaker 03

  Many people had died there and in violent ways. And I think there, I honestly, I think the energy was still hanging around in there and wasn't able to get out. The only reason we stayed is I finally got an exorcist, Catholic priest that came and did a whole exorcism of the holes. And they got a Native American man who routinely went to places to clear them out with sage and everything. And after I had both of those done, all the spooky stopped. It was done over. And I felt incredibly safe there. In fact, I was in the middle of Hollywood and I never even felt the need to lock any of the doors again, ever. I just, you know, which was probably stupid, but I also had two gigantic rottweilers to help.

• 45:50Mayim Bialik?

  Are you a, I'm curious, were you raised religious? Are you a spiritual person? Do you normally think and feel about energies, like in general, or just kind of spooky energies?

• 46:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was not raised religious at all. My parents were just basically, they never talked about religion. I was forced to go to Sunday school when I was really little, but I even skipped that. I'd go in the front door and out the back door and go catch tadpoles down in the creek. But yeah, I was not raised religious, but I do have a very strong sense of spiritualism. I do believe in the higher power of some kind, of course, and that things happen for a reason and that, I don't know, for a long time, I was very much in the belief, and I still am, of science of mind. I don't know if you're familiar with the whole premise of science of mind, but it's kind of you

• 46:47Speaker 03

  controlling your outcome in life. And that's, sure, that's easy to say, but, you know, a lot of people would go, yeah, that's, you know, so easy for you to say. But I really do believe in you create your own reality. And that's kind of a spiritual thing.

• 47:03Mayim Bialik?

  Absolutely.

• 47:04Speaker 03

  And I believe also that people have sensitivity to things like spirits or, you know, spirits of somebody who had passed on. I mean, I've just heard too many, too many stories of people getting signals from someone else who has maybe passed on that too many of them that they just can't be completely ridiculous, you know. So yeah, that's, that's kind of how I believe, but I am, I would, I would say I was very spiritual.

• 47:32Mayim Bialik?

  So obviously you have this, this book and you know, your entire, um, you know, catalog of films and television and, you know, products and I mean, it's an entire brand. Are you tired of being Elvira? Like, is there a point at which you say like, I'm done? Or is this just sort of it's, I would imagine it's, it's very different, you know, playing, you've, you've played this second character, you know, almost your entire life, you know, the, the vast majority of your life, you have had this kind of dual identity. Is she kind of with you forever and always? Or is there a point at which you're just you again?

• 48:15Speaker 03

  I have been thinking about this and talking about it. I actually had a big meeting with my manager yesterday about it. And it is because, I'm going to tell you that you were speaking about spirituality and ghosts and all that. I had a dream just a few nights ago, I was in New York City and I had this dream and it was so intense. I was with Brad Pitt and Nicolas Cage and we were at a screening of Brad Pitt's new movie. And Nicolas said to me, Brad is getting really, really depressed. He doesn't think this movie is good. And I don't know, he really is down. And I said, I'll go talk to him. So I go over to Brad and I say, Why are you so worried about this movie coming up?

• 49:01Speaker 03

  He goes, well, I'm getting older and, you know, I have to keep upping my game. I have to keep trying it, but now I'm getting older and I'm not as good looking and I don't have as much energy and blah, blah, blah. And I go, you are Brad fucking Pitt. Just snap out of it. You don't have to do anything. You can slow down. You can do whatever you want. You are always going to be Brad Pitt. And I woke up and the first thing I thought was that was me talking to myself, giving myself a pep talk about, slow down for Christ's sake. I mean, I'm just, I work, work, work, work, work. I go ah all the time. And, you know, I've been working since I was 14 years old. I'm 71 now. It's like,

• 49:43Speaker 03

  I'd like a break, damn it. I'd like to just go have some fun and do some things, but that doesn't mean Elvira is going away. I just kind of have to step off the platform and be a little bit more behind the scenes. I mean, I've got a lot of merchandising and licensing out there. I have my book. I'd like to do a documentary of my book. I certainly don't think I'd stop working. I don't know what I'd do if I didn't work. I think I'm too closely tied to me is my work, you know, that kind of thing. But I would like to just step back a little bit and have some free time for once. So yeah, that's my, that might happen to me just the other day. It's funny you brought that up.

• 50:25Mayim Bialik?

  You're also going on tour in Romania next year.

• 50:28Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, I'm working, yeah.

• 50:30Mayim Bialik?

  Is, is that somewhere you've been before?

• 50:33Speaker 03

  Yes, I shot my movie Elvira's Haunted Hills in Romania, in the region that was Transylvania. And it is awesome. It's fantastic. So beautiful. People are kind and it was just a wonderful place to be. It's a little bit like going back to the 16th century, but I'm really looking forward to that. We've had this tour planned for now, uh, three years because we were. Ready to go. We sold out. We had all the people going with us and it was pandemic happened. So it was canceled. Then we get to do it. It's all set for May and the Ukrainian war happens and it's on the border of Romania, very nearby. And we canceled. So we're trying

• 51:16Speaker 03

  one more time. I really hope it works out because I'm just dying to go over there and kind of revisit all of the scenery and the people from shooting my movie there for so many months.

• 51:28Mayim Bialik?

  It's wonderful. I've never been there, but it's also such a special place in terms of what you have brought, you know, to that region. Final question. What, if I were to ask you, you know, what do you feel Elvira represents for people? What do you see you've kind of contributed, you know, to our world of media with Elvira?

• 51:53Speaker 03

  Well, I hear this all the time from fans. So I can hardly believe it. Sometimes people come up to me and whether they were overweight when they were a child or gay when they were a child, or in some way, just they didn't fit in. They say that I was a major influence, that Elvira was a major influence to them, to stand up to bullies, to feel like being an outsider, a geek is okay. And I'm just, I'm shocked and amazed by the people that tell me that story. I've even had people say, I was going to kill myself. And then

• 52:35Speaker 03

  I saw Elvira, Mistress of the Dark, the movie, and it gave me confidence. I mean, I'm like, really? It's hard for me to believe, but I've heard it a million times. So I'm gonna have to believe it by now. So that's the happiest thing. For me, that's the best, best part about being Elvira. If I changed one or two people's life, and I think possibly a lot more for the better, then my job here is done.

• 53:05Mayim Bialik?

  It's been such a pleasure to get to talk to you. I mean, my, my childhood self is just freaking the fuck out. I mean,

• 53:14Mayim Bialik?

  It's just really, it's incredible and also just so wonderful to hear, um, yeah, to hear more about you and to, you know, get to see you as a mom and entrepreneur. And it's just amazing, really, really amazing.

• 53:28Speaker 03

  Thank you. Wow, thank you. Boy, I love this show. It's just flattering beginning to the end. That's fantastic. Thank you.

• 53:36Mayim Bialik?

  It has been such a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much and we wish you the best with the tour and with the book as well.

• 53:42Speaker 03

  Thank you so much. This was a lot of fun. I really appreciate it.

• 53:48Mayim Bialik?

  That was like getting to meet my childhood babysitter. My brother and I spent so many hours with that woman in front of the television. And, you know, it's funny because my parents were very careful about what I watched. And, you know, I wasn't allowed to see R-rated movies. There was no PG 13 then. You know, my mom was raised very, very religious and my dad was also raised, you know, very conservative. And although they had their kind of hippie phase, they were pretty socially conservative. Elvira was the exception to that rule because she was so, she was so otherworldly. I mean, I don't want to say she was like a cartoon character because that sounds demeaning, but I mean, her identity, it's like she was

• 54:29Mayim Bialik?

  beyond a person. She was this like sexy, awesome presence that you could not say no to.

• 54:36Jonathan Cohen?

  It doesn't track for me though, like your, if your parents are very protective of their child, this one, this woman, you're like, yeah, sure. No problem.

• 54:43Mayim Bialik?

  But that's what I'm saying. She was, she was different. I mean, she was clearly a woman and very sexy, but because of, I mean, and this is just the way I'm kind of thinking about it. I didn't sexualize her. I mean, culture was very different then, but I didn't think of her like I thought of, you know, Angeline or like when I heard about Playboy magazine, you know, she wasn't that because, and again, this is no insult to the women in Playboy magazine. I didn't get to know them, right? You would just hear about them or people would, you know,

• 55:12Jonathan Cohen?

  You didn't read the interviews?

• 55:12Mayim Bialik?

  I also was not reading the interviews and I wasn't looking at Playboy magazine. But what I'm saying is her identity, it, it had so much personality and she had, she was a really fleshed out character. And I don't know that that makes it better or worse. I'm not-

• 55:26Jonathan Cohen?

  But that let you watch the horror movies?

• 55:28Mayim Bialik?

  I, no, I think that I was more interested in what she would say and like, like her shtick.

• 55:33Jonathan Cohen?

  But did you watch the horror movies that were presented?

• 55:36Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, but they weren't gory. Like, the ones that my brother and I would watch, like those specials, they weren't, it wasn't like super gore. We were watching like old monster movies like sometimes from like the 50s and 60s. Like, you know, it was, it was so niche. Like it was, I was never into slasher movies or anything like that, but it was this vibe, you know, and especially on Halloween. Like, sometimes we'd trick or treat, but like that wasn't a holiday that my parents grew up with. So like, other kids did it, but like, they really, honestly, could care less. But we were, we'd sometimes like go out with friends, but we would just watch Elvira when we came home.

• 56:06Jonathan Cohen?

  I took Halloween very, very seriously.

• 56:07Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, they do that in Canada.

• 56:09Jonathan Cohen?

  It's not just Canadians. I would like map out the neighborhoods.

• 56:13Mayim Bialik?

  Well, that's because you were, you were always working an angle.

• 56:15Jonathan Cohen?

  Not just like a plastic bag or one of those pumpkins. I would go to different neighborhoods.

• 56:21Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, okay, well, this is-

• 56:21Jonathan Cohen?

  I had to make that stuff last.

• 56:23Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, well, this is a, a very different, you know, experience. And I also think, you know, I think there was something, I mean, she said it herself. Like, there was more, she had more freedom as a person. And, I mean, I think there's so much, like, deep psychology to this identity she created. And live, imagine, I mean, I have no idea if she has any idea who I am, but imagine if I had a different persona and I wasn't me.

• 56:51Jonathan Cohen?

  Yeah, you would love that.

• 56:52Mayim Bialik?

  When she was like, "Oh, I got to party. I had to have so much fun." I was like, "Tell me about it. What do they do, the people?"

• 56:59Jonathan Cohen?

  What is a party like?

• 57:00Mayim Bialik?

  What is it like to do, what is it like to be yourself at a party? Oh, the saddest. Anyway, um, that was really, really cool. I loved, she talked about, um, energy. I wanted to tell her about my house, which-

• 57:13Jonathan Cohen?

  We think is a little bit haunted, but you've had people try to come and clear it and-

• 57:17Mayim Bialik?

  It got, things got better after, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, things, things absolutely cha- I'm just being honest with you. We were hanging out last night and then when you left, heh, heh, heh.

• 57:28Jonathan Cohen?

  The house creaked and you got scared?

• 57:30Mayim Bialik?

  It wasn't just creaking. I'm like, sorry, we might as well do this. I knew where the cats were. Like, they were not running around.

• 57:39Jonathan Cohen?

  You ain't afraid of no ghost.

• 57:40Mayim Bialik?

  I am afraid of every ghost and most humans.

• 57:45Mayim Bialik?

  This is a really awesome way to enter these final days of October as All Hallows' Eve approacheth. I don't like anything about Halloween. I'm scared already.

• 57:56Jonathan Cohen?

  Really?

• 57:57Mayim Bialik?

  Of everything in the supermarkets. I'm afraid something's gonna jump up at me. I literally, I'm very scared. Yeah, but what I do like, what I do like, sorry, this is possibly the nerdiest thing I've ever said, I do like Edgar Allan Poe a lot. We're gonna do an Instagram Live on Halloween. Stay tuned, yo. We might even have a few items to auction off that are spooky. There might even be an Edgar Allan Poe book.

• 58:26Jonathan Cohen?

  We're like the two least Halloween-y people.

• 58:28Mayim Bialik?

  Exactly, and we're doing an Instagram Live. It's gonna be awesome.

• 58:31Jonathan Cohen?

  Let's do it.

• 58:32Mayim Bialik?

  I might make my vegan bark. It's the one thing I do on Halloween, I make vegan Halloween bark.

• 58:37Jonathan Cohen?

  Getting wild over here.

• 58:40Mayim Bialik?

  Really, really special. I know you don't understand how deeply this was important for me and for Valerie, but it's honestly very, very, very fascinating to speak to her and to get to see that person behind this woman who really was ahead of her time in terms of, you know, owning so much of herself. Um, yeah, really just freaking awesome. From our spooky breakdown, from our spooky breakdown to the one we hope you never have, we'll see you next time.