Re-Air: Howie Mandel: Never Too Late to Make A Change

In honor of OCD Awareness Week, we are revisiting our conversation with Howie Mandel! Howie Mandel (America’s Got Talent, Deal or No Deal, Howie Mandel Does Stuff podcast) opens up about his struggles with ADHD, anxiety, depression, and OCD. He discusses the rituals and intrusive thoughts that force him to hit the pause button on his life, why he finally decided to seek professional treatment, and how his diagnoses have affected his lifepath. Howie explains how Candid Camera first inspired him to do comedy and recounts his first time onstage performing stand-up. He and Mayim consider the importance of living in the moment, hypervigilance as a survival mechanism, and tips on achieving success within therapy. Mayim breaks down ways to manage mental illness with meditation in another installment of Ask Mayim Anything. Check out our full episode with Howie Mandel: https://www.bialikbreakdown.com/watch-podcast/howie-mandel Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BialikBreakdown.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.bialikbreakdown.com/ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube.com/mayimbialik⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/mayimbialik%E2%81%A0 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Mayim Bialik?

  Hi, I'm Mayim Bialik.

• 0:05Jonathan Cohen?

  And I'm Jonathan.

• 0:06Mayim Bialik?

  And welcome to our Breakdown. Today, in honor of OCD Awareness Week, we're going to revisit one of our episodes with the one and only Howie Mandel. Now, you may know Howie Mandel from America's Got Talent, or Deal or No Deal, or the Howie Mandel Does Stuff podcast. I know him as a stand-up comedian from when I was much younger, and he was too. Howie chose to come on our podcast and talk very, very intimately about his struggles with obsessive-compulsive disorder, and also ADHD, anxiety, and depression.

• 0:44Jonathan Cohen?

  Howie discusses the rituals and intrusive thoughts that force him to hit pause on life, why he finally decided to seek professional treatment, and how his diagnosis has affected his path in life.

• 0:57Mayim Bialik?

  And we're really, really excited to present this. It's such a perfect conversation as we have OCD Awareness Week. Also, my thesis was on obsessive-compulsive disorder. So this is a topic that was very, very interesting to me, and I was so grateful to have Howie talk about it. So many people know that he doesn't shake hands and, you know, all these things, but for him to describe the details of what it looks like, I think is a really great way for us to kind of honor this week and encourage people who might want to seek help and find resources to do so for them and for their families.

• 1:32Jonathan Cohen?

  Do you ever wonder what's happening in Mayim and Jonathan's head and wish you could hear more of what we're thinking? You can do so on Substack. Check us out at Mayim Bialik's Breakdown on Substack, where the Breaker community is growing and we release content there that is very special and unique to that community.

• 1:50Mayim Bialik?

  We hope to see you over there. And now, we hope that you enjoy taking a look back at our episode with Howie Mandel in honor of OCD Awareness Week. Break it down. Hello.

• 2:01Mayim Bialik?

  Where are you, by the way? What's the fun house behind you?

• 2:04Speaker 02

  This is my little podcast studio.

• 2:06Mayim Bialik?

  What are the things behind you? Is that a, you put a coin in, you get a toy?

• 2:10Speaker 02

  This thing, yes. So this was, I did a show in the 90s, in the late 1900s. I did a show, Bobby's World, on Fox. It was an animated show. So these are the, this was in, I don't know, like a Dave and Buster's or whatever. They had a lot of merchandise, you know? I have Happy Meals here.

• 2:32Mayim Bialik?

  That's so cool.

• 2:33Speaker 02

  This was the Bobby character. There was like a live show that went out and they did, somebody was in that and danced and sang. And this is just my career in toys behind me.

• 2:45Mayim Bialik?

  We're really, really excited to talk to you, really about a lot of different aspects of your life. But we'll start with the most important to Jonathan. Let's talk Canada.

• 2:53Speaker 02

  Are you Canadian, Jonathan?

• 2:54Jonathan Cohen?

  I am. We represent here. I don't know if you can see our little tiny Canadian flag.

• 2:59Speaker 02

  That's quite a representation. This makes you seem bigger. Where are you from, Jonathan?

• 3:03Jonathan Cohen?

  I'm actually from North York and I played on the Willardale Blackhawks, which your bio, your, the little research we got sent to us says that you're from Willardale.

• 3:12Speaker 02

  I'm from Bathurst and Finch or Bathurst and Steels. What school did you go to?

• 3:15Jonathan Cohen?

  I went to York Mills High School for a couple of years and then I-

• 3:20Speaker 02

  Northview, Vanier and Newton Brook.

• 3:22Jonathan Cohen?

  Yeah, I had family at Newton Brook. I was at Bayview in 401, started at Finch, around the Finch and-

• 3:29Speaker 02

  If you have, like if somebody has a roadmap of Canada or ways, if you look at ways, this will be an interesting part of the podcast.

• 3:39Speaker 02

  We're naming streets. But I went to a lot of different high schools. Unlike you, I feel very, I don't even have a GED. No, I don't.

• 3:48Mayim Bialik?

  Well, we were very excited to speak to you also from the Canadian perspective. Jonathan does represent here. I tease him about how he speaks all the time. So that will likely happen today as well. But no, it's really a pleasure to talk to you. I grew up, you know, knowing who you were and appreciating, loving your comedy. But I didn't realize until I really looked at your bio, like what an incredible career you've had. You've done so many different kinds of things and you really, I mean, I don't want to say reinventing because it's not like you needed to reinvent yourself, but there are so many different aspects of you. And you've been married a really long time. And I was like, that in and of itself, that's amazing. So.

• 4:31Speaker 02

  Sure. You know, not for me. I'm the lucky guy. She's the one that puts in all the work and the effort. Living with me is the skill. Being me is a nightmare.

• 4:41Mayim Bialik?

  Take us back a little bit. I would like to know a bit about how you grew up and what your kind of family life was like. Were you raised in an industry family? Did you have siblings? Yeah. Tell us a little bit about sort of like, and are you a Howard who goes by Howie?

• 4:56Speaker 02

  I am Howard. You know, Howard was, I have a little bit of a PTSD about Howard. Howard was, anybody who calls me Howard was never happy with me in the moment. Howard was, you know, admonishment, right? It was like Howard, Howard. And I was, and there was a lot of that, more than, oh, it's Howie. Because, you know, I grew up, I'm 66 years old and I grew up in a time where, and that's why I love that you're doing this podcast, you know, and I believe there still is a great stigma attached to mental health. But I do think that mental health is equally, if not more important than physical health. And I believe that good mental health leads to and helps with good physical health.

• 5:39Speaker 02

  They're attached. I've actually gone and spoken on Capitol Hill to try to get insurance companies to parody the, the amount that they will invest in mental health. You know, but that being said, I've had issues from the time I was born, but they were never really, I have a really good, happy family life. Really, I don't use the word normal, but kind of relatable. I grew up in my brother and I, it's, we're two siblings. I grew up in an apartment building. We shared a room. My parents were really hard workers. Later in life, my mother became like the number one salesperson of real estate in Canada. No aspirations to be in show business, didn't want to be in show business.

• 6:19Speaker 02

  Part of the things that I personally suffer from, which has been, were diagnosed in my 40s, are ADHD and anxiety and depression and OCD. And I had all of those from the. My earliest recollections and they don't serve me at all. People say, are they gifts? If they're gifts, I'd love to return. Appreciate, you know, but, but the, the, the thing is that, that part of the, uh, each one of these things is the inability to, um, well, now I have ability, I'm medicated and I'm under and I have a lot of therapy, but, um, I, I don't think of ramifications. I just kind of act on impulse

• 7:01Speaker 02

  and those impulses sometimes didn't serve me. And in fact, they didn't serve me as a child. In my home, I was loved and supported. Outside I wasn't because I think every child, uh, you know, uh, wants to be like everybody else. You kind of don't want to stick out. That's not a good thing, uniqueness. And, um, I wasn't the class clown. I was a class pariah. You know, I'd be making noises or I would stand up in the middle of class and shout something out. You know, my family was very much into comedy and as far as watching it on television, my dad would buy albums and I'd hear my parents laughing in the living room and I wanted to be part of that. I, you know, I kind of recognized that laughter was a, was a great magnet, you know,

• 7:44Speaker 02

  and I would, but I would go into the living room. I've talked about this many times, but I'd go into the living room and they'd be watching a stand-up comic. And I was four years old. I didn't really understand anything that was being said, you know, if the guy was making jokes about a mother-in-law, I, I didn't even know what a mother-in-law was. I was four, you know, and, uh, so my first kind of, uh, entree into kind of understanding a little bit of comedy was, uh, Candid Camera. Are you going to take notes? I like to jot a little things down because we, we circle back. I'm very studious. I love that. And I, and it's been years since I've seen a pencil.

• 8:22Speaker 02

  I think I forgot cursive as we, as we sit here. You could text and then, but anyway, I, uh, I was watching Alan Font, you know, do you know?

• 8:31Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, I actually did a, I, I, um, I co-hosted a reboot of Candid Camera with Peter.

• 8:37Speaker 02

  With their son, right?

• 8:38Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah. So I, I, I love that world and I think it's some of the most interesting, you know, sociological comedy that there is, but go ahead.

• 8:46Speaker 02

  So, so the first time, my parents were watching it and it was a staple on Sunday nights in the 50s. Yeah. And even in, in the 60s, I remember sitting down one day and I'll never forget this because this was like, kind of changed my trajectory, my whole path, my whole, uh, life path. I was sitting down, I was four, and Alan Fund was this nice man who was sitting there kind of explaining to me and everybody in the audience that I'm going to pretend that I'm, this is my office and I'm the boss. I'm gonna hire a receptionist and I'm gonna tell these ladies that they have to answer the phone and their one responsibility is not to miss a phone call and to take messages. And I'm gonna make that imperative, but here's what we've done.

• 9:27Speaker 02

  We tied a rope to the leg of the desk and every time the phone rings, when she goes to reach for the phone, it goes through the wall, somebody's gonna pull the rope on the other side and the desk is gonna, is gonna go away and we'll see how she, well, that I understood, right? That you didn't have to be, and it, that anticipation, I remember like turning around to my parents and go, oh my God, we're all included in this. It was the best feeling in the world. It's kind of like that feeling of like when you have, when you're making somebody a surprise party and they go, she's coming up, she's coming up on the driveway and everybody just hide, everybody just hide. And so it was like this party and then the first time the phone rang and she went to reach for it and the desk went away.

• 10:08Speaker 02

  I mean, there was this visceral like laugh, all of us together and it was the first time I was included in the laughter. And from that moment on, with no aspirations to be a comedian or to be in show business, I've always tried to reclaim that moment. And that moment hit on so many different levels. Number one, it was entertaining and funny. Number two, it was relatable because even as a kid, you go, oh my God, if I was sitting in a room and I saw a table move away and I didn't know, I think I'd be scared. So it was like this relatability to humanity. I mean, I'm being more articulate than I would be as a four-year-old, but I know I had all these feelings.

• 10:47Speaker 02

  And from that moment on, it was such a good feeling that I always tried to reclaim that feeling. But I wasn't sophisticated enough, maybe I was just an idiot, to know that this was a television show, number one. Number two, I don't have a television show. Number three, I don't even have a friend or an audience. But I'm going to do these things. Just because they're good, I'm gonna plan. And I didn't have the wherewithal to even tell one other person, this is what I'm going to do. I've told some of the stories a little bit later on in my life. But whether it was, you know, phoning out of the yellow pages, a contracting, building contracting company, and telling them, and giving them my name. My name's Howie Mandel, didn't disguise my voice or anything.

• 11:32Speaker 02

  And saying, we're thinking of putting an addition on to the library. You know, and at three o'clock, could you come out and give me an estimation? Knowing because at three o'clock, I would be sitting in math class and I could look down on the field and just me alone. Like, it would be better. I don't understand the psyche that I was working on. It would be better if I said to a friend, you know, you're not gonna believe it. I called a company, when you see the guy's gonna be measuring. I didn't tell anybody. So now I'm sitting in math. There's a guy with a tape measure and a clipboard in the field. I'm just, everybody's doing math and like, like an insane person, I'm just giggling. I'm looking out the window and giggling at nothing. And if the teacher asks what I'm giggling at, it's, the guy's there.

• 12:17Speaker 02

  He's measuring. You know, and then you see the principal walk out to the guy in the field. And I know I can only imagine what that conversation is. And then I see him, I see the guy leave and I see the principal like in a huff, go back into the office. And then you hear, uh, over the P A system, well, Howard, Mandel, please come to the office. And I go to the office and I'm standing there and he goes, did you call somebody to put an addition on to the library? And I say, no. He said, well, he has your name. I go, I didn't ask him to do it. I'm getting three estimates.

• 12:51Speaker 02

  He did not laugh. And I just thought it was great to, I love that discomfort, you know? And he said, wait here and we'll call your parents. They called my parents, my parents were sitting there. And he reiterated the story to my parents. And I could see their parents really just biting their lip because they're supposed to discipline, but they can see the humor in it. You know, that was one of many, many, many, many things every day that I was doing that wasn't endearing me, I wasn't the class clown. You know, I was just this. Pariah, this weird little man who looked like a little girl. I was four foot, 10 years old, four foot 10 inches high. I had my hair was past my, my voice hadn't changed. Girls didn't like me. But I wasn't on any sports teams, you know?

• 13:36Speaker 02

  It was just like, I was just this person that would do things by myself and giggle. You know, and so that didn't get me a lot of. And then, you know, like even the other things with my OCD. I've, I've talked about my misophobia, which is just the fear of germs and things. I have a younger brother. When we would fight, it was just known in the house that if he would lift the lid of the laundry hamper and hold it up, I would scream like a little girl and run so he could win any fight. But it was just, you know, Howie's quirky.

• 14:02Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 14:03Speaker 02

  You know, until I was in my 40s and my wife finally gave me an ultimatum and said, you know, if you really, if you don't take care of yourself, if you don't go find out, it's just really hard to live with this for everybody. Cause I was making, you know, I went and built a guest house in case the kids had a cold.

• 14:23Mayim Bialik?

  Right, okay, wait, so hold on, hold on. I want to get to it, I want to get to it. But take us like, let's go from, from little Howie. Did this shift in junior high, in high school? What was your, this was just you? Like this was Howie, that was your experience?

• 14:36Speaker 02

  All the way through. So I, because, and another thing is I can't focus and I can't sit. You know, if they allowed me, because I have ADHD. So I would get up in the middle of class and just, wow! You know, and I'm sorry, you know? And that sounds weird, but just a kid getting up in the class and just yelling or just, you know, I would do things and they go, who was that? It was me. Why'd you do that? I go, I don't know, I just, I just, I can't sit anymore. And they go, sit down or go to the office.

• 15:01Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 15:02Speaker 02

  Um, so, and I'm really, that's why I'm fascinated by you. You know, I love math and science. Math and science to me are like doing puzzles. And I was really good. I'm still really good in math. You know, I didn't get to go far enough in, in science when it, before I graduated. You know, I got thrown out of that school for the, with the contractor. They put me in another high school. I put in another high school. I got thrown out. I got thrown out of three different high schools before my GED. I was in. Incredibly depressed. I was again like five feet tall. I got a job in a carpet warehouse. All my friends went on. They were still in school. They went to college. I didn't have anybody. I I'll let you ask the questions, but I got thrown out of school. So now not only did I not have friends,

• 15:45Speaker 02

  I was living, I was on a different life path than anybody else.

• 15:48Mayim Bialik?

  And what did your dad do? You mentioned your mom eventually got into real estate.

• 15:51Speaker 02

  My dad was in in sales. My dad was like an entrepreneur who who did well. You know, when I was little, he was a car salesman and then he became a, he was in the stock market. And then the the last thing is he bought a club, a bar and a hotel in Stratford, Ontario, Canada. And Stratford, Ontario, Canada is famous for in North America for the Royal Shakespearean Festival. My dad was really into counter programming and he opened a strip bar across the street.

• 16:22Speaker 02

  And I would go sometimes, but he had a sense of humor. He, I remember like the the headlining act was Princess Glow, who was a 350 pound naked woman who would take a bubble bath in a giant champagne glass and she'd be soaking wet and soaked up and then she'd climb, not so gracefully, out of the cup and walk around the room and drop her giant wet breasts on bald men's heads.

• 16:48Mayim Bialik?

  Your father was an entrepreneur. That's what that word is for.

• 16:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know what that is, but I saw that. I never saw any. I didn't see any Shakespeare. That's the only play I was able to see in, but.

• 16:59Mayim Bialik?

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• 18:28Mayim Bialik?

  It's the best way to support our show. When did you sort of begin to forge your own path as a comedian? How did that happen?

• 18:35Speaker 02

  So I went in, in the late 70s, in the mid, in the mid 70s, disco was all the rage. And I wasn't, that's like the height of Studio 54 in New York and, and I, as I told you, I didn't play sports, so I didn't, I couldn't go to the Y once a week and get a basketball game with friends. I don't gamble, so I didn't have a poker game or cards. I don't really drink, so I didn't go to the clubs and dance. I had nothing. They, they opened a club called Yuck Yucks in Toronto. And that was around the same time as Catch a Rising Star and the Comedy Store opened. And somebody said one night, you want to go to the comedy club? And I said, okay. I'd never been to a standup comedy club. I wasn't part of Second City and I'd never been to anything like that. And I went to the comedy club. And it was the first time where I saw, I'd never seen, aside from on the Johnny Carson

• 19:20Speaker 02

  Show, I'd never watched standup comedy. But there were people that were like my age and from the, they seemed like ne'er do wells who were willing to share, you know, their, their experiences and the related. And it was fun. It was a fun night. And somebody, and then at the end of the night, Mark Breslin, who owned the place, and it was the MC, came out and said, you know, we also have after midnight, if you think that you have what it takes to do this, we have an amateur night. And, and who wants to do it? And somebody at the table went, you should get up, Howie. And I went, okay, because I always do. I always say, okay. And still to this day, and that's my philosophy, which we'll talk about a little later, but. It's also without any thought of ramifications.

• 20:04Speaker 02

  You know, this is before I formed a kind of a life path, but, but I, I just said, okay. And without any thought, I didn't prepare. I didn't, I didn't want to be a comedian. I didn't think about it.

• 20:14Mayim Bialik?

  What did you think you wanted to do in life? Like at that time in your life, if we would have said, what do you want to do?

• 20:19Speaker 02

  I don't have a thought. I don't have a thought of what I want to do tomorrow.

• 20:22Mayim Bialik?

  Got it.

• 20:22Speaker 02

  You know, and I still don't have that. It's just, I just live, try to live in the now because my mind is so, can I swear on the here?

• 20:30Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:31Speaker 02

  My, my, my life is so fucked up. I mean, my head that I'm always worried about what might happen. I'm always second guessing what did happen. I'm just so worried and I live in, I, I, my, my resting state is terror. So I, I, if things happen in the moment, I just like to live in the moment. And if I thought of any joke, it was just in that moment, I was going to get up on stage. And if there was a joke, the joke was somebody was going to introduce Howie Mandel. And there's no reason for Howie Mandel to be on the stage. And if anybody from my school is in the audience or anybody was, that knew me from before, it's just the moment.

• 21:08Mayim Bialik?

  So what happened? So you get up there.

• 21:10Speaker 02

  I get up, he goes, ladies and gentlemen, Howie Mandel. I'd never been on a stage before. And I, I, I hit the stage, you know, with my arms out and, and I've never been on a stage and the, and the spotlight is, it blinds you. You've been on the stage. It just blinds me. I've never been in that kind of, and I look, I could smell the, uh, the, uh, microphone, the shitty beer breaths, you know? And, and then, you know, within 30 seconds or 20 seconds, the, the applause dies down. And I'm standing there in quiet and I'm looking down. I could see people in the front row looking up at me like they're the strangers, like going, okay, okay. And then I remember it's sheer fucking terror, just terror. I'm just, it's like that dream where you show up at a party in your underpants.

• 21:54Speaker 02

  I kind of, without any thought, was displaying the terror out loud. I would go, okay, okay, all right. And if you watch my old, uh, videos of old Howie, that's just terror with nothing to back it up. So I'd go, okay, all right, okay, okay. Here's what I, okay. And I was just trying to think of things, all right. And they started. giggling at my discomfort. Right. And when they were giggling, I was also got very self-conscious. So I'd go, I'd go, what, what? No, tell me what. Yeah. And, and say things like, please don't laugh. It's throwing me off, like which got bigger laughs. Right. And then I put my hands in my, I put my hands in my pocket and I told you I suffered from OCD and misophobia. I didn't want to touch things. I always had rubber gloves with me because if I went out, I'd have to go to a public restroom. I didn't want to touch anything. And I pulled out a rubber glove

• 22:38Speaker 02

  and I, I go, look, I didn't have, look, that was it. But the, I had a rubber glove and the way you're looking at me right now and going, what the fuck is that? And, and so I don't know what came over me except the glove. I, I pulled the glove over my head and I pulled it down beyond my nose and I started breathing and the fingers were going up and down, up and down. And people were laughing even more and I blew it up and it popped off my head and the whole audience applauded and I went, good night, and I ran off.

• 23:03Speaker 02

  In the hallway, Mark comes up to me, goes, that was amazing. You gotta come back tomorrow. And I went, for what? And he goes, to do comedy. I go, what am I gonna do? He goes, do the same thing. I go, what the fuck did I do? What did I do? And I started showing up at Yak Yaks, you know, and it was, that was my respite. That was a thing. It, it, the, nothing, the most comfortable place on earth for me, even to this day, is on stage at a comedy club. And because nothing keeps me in the moment, the, the only place I'm comfortable, I'm in the moment. I can't worry about what's gonna happen two minutes from now. I only worry about what I'm saying in that second, right? It, that really makes me the most present. It's kind of like, my analogy is like on a roller coaster. You know,

• 23:47Speaker 02

  I love thrill rides because it does the same thing. The scarier it is, the closer to death you think you're gonna become, and the adrenaline runs, you're not thinking about what you did yesterday. You're not thinking about what might happen tomorrow as you go in that death drop. And that is exhilarating. That is, it, it pumps adrenaline and you feel alive and you feel otherwise, quiet is not good for me.

• 24:09Jonathan Cohen?

  In those early days, in those early shows, tell us a little bit about the process. Like, did you start writing for them? Did you show up the next time and it was just like that in the moment? Did you realize, hey, this is my shtick? Like, when did it sort of click in that you weren't just sort of totally winging it? Or did you just continue to totally wing it?

• 24:27Speaker 02

  Well, even to this day, you know, winging it is my favorite thing to do. So obviously, you know, I knew that if I blew the rubber glove up, that would be the that'd be the closing. So I always close with a rubber glove. Or, you know, I had this voice that I did, which eventually became Bobby and Gizmo and Gremlins and things like that. That was me. That was from me choking on a piece of cake and it was halfway down my throat.

• 24:51Speaker 02

  You know, and I knew that that was the, you know, if I did those things, they were crowd pleasers. If not, but the best thing for me, even today, if there's a technical glitch, if something happens in the moment and I'm taken off that path, those are the best moments for me. And I don't mind, you know, the terror of quiet or having an audience turn on me. And if I could just claw myself back to acceptance, then I feel like that's the most fun. So it wasn't like I sat down and I don't have the discipline that like Seinfeld has to sit down and write and create and sit there like it's a job. All my writing

• 25:31Speaker 02

  is basically done on stage in the moment. But after 45 years, I have a plethora of stuff that I know that wins and could get and people want to hear it again, or they want to hear the voice. But my favorite moments that I constantly go for is trouble that I know that is unique to that moment and that that time.

• 25:49Jonathan Cohen?

  Did you bomb in those early days? Like, did you? Because I'm sort of fascinated.

• 25:52Speaker 02

  Bomb now. I bomb, yes. But I don't mind it. I do. I'll go, I'll get a corporate gig and, you know, try something. And I like those moments of bombing. I tell, there was a story where, you know, you always focus on the harder, you know, standing in front of an audience. I remember being at Radio City Music Hall and just killing, just killing. And once you start killing, you're on a roll. You know, it's kind of easy. You know what I mean? You get a rhythm and they're all laughing. They laugh at everything you do, even though each thing you say is not, it doesn't really deserve that. But I had the audience, except for one guy up front who wasn't focused on me, wasn't looking at me, wasn't really responding. And I don't know why, for whatever reason, I ruined the rhythm

• 26:36Speaker 02

  of the of the moment. And I just went, stop for a second. Everybody, the fuck is with this? There's this idiot in the front row. He hasn't made any eye contact with me. He's not looking at me. The fuck is your problem? And the lady beside him goes, he's blind. And I repeated, you know, because the whole audience, the 7,000, I went, he's blind? And you could hear the, the, the joy being sucked out of the room. My, my heart dropped into my stomach. You know, I just ruined, I go, this is like, I guess this is the, whatever the opposite of comedy gold was, this moment, it's like shit in your pants as far as in front of 7,000 people.

• 27:17Speaker 02

  And then, you know, there I was and, and I'd ruined the, the moment and the moment was ruined. But then I kinda just became that knee jerk guy who just does what's on his mind. And I said, I said, let me ask one question. Listen, I'm not making fun of you. I want to ask a question. Why? Why the fuck would you buy a blind person front row seats? You could put this idiot in the balcony, tell him it's in the front row, but no, I got you good. You could lie. What the fuck are you doing? And that got the audience back. And that's kind of like, that, that, that's kind of emblematic of the kind of moments that I hope and pray for.

• 28:00Speaker 02

  Not that I purposely will do something, but when it's real. Yeah. And that's why I love pranking because there, for me, that feeling of awkwardness, of being out of place, out of fear, of somebody being annoyed is so much better than, I don't like jokes. When somebody comes up to me and says, I want to tell you a joke. And they say two, two guys walked into the bar. Well, they didn't. Nobody walked into the bar. You don't know what happened. You're just making up a story and pretend isn't funny to me. I like reality and I like to be able to relate to it. But if somebody's in that kind of, I don't think it's mean either. I think that I would probably go along, you know, to watch terror in somebody's eyes

• 28:43Speaker 02

  for a moment, to walk into a, a dry cleaner with a shirt soaked in blood, going, can I get this done in an hour? And if the cops come in, please don't tell them, give them any of my information, you know? And they think that they're an accessory to a murder and explain to me why they don't want to do my shirt. That's, I don't need an audience. You know, a lot of comedians say if they could just make one person laugh, they're doing their job. For me, it just has to be me.

• 29:12Mayim Bialik?

  What was it like for you to try and date?

• 29:16Speaker 02

  Well, hell.

• 29:17Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, I want to know, I want to know about it because like.

• 29:20Speaker 02

  I'll give you an example on my wife on the first date I had with my wife. I had a reputation, you know, and I pursued it for a long time before she would even agree to go out with me. And I'm from Toronto, Canada, and I took her on a date. The first time I dated her, I had borrowed my mom's car. And I remember it was a Cutlass, a 1967 Cutlass or something. We, I, then it's the middle of the winter and I, I got her in the car. We were going to a movie or something and I, I made a left turn and I hit an ice patch and it, the car started spinning, spinning like crazy. And then we hit the center aisle and the car went up on its side and was about to turn

• 30:03Speaker 02

  over, but just as it did, just as it was about to turn over, it fell back and fell back on the, on the wheels. I got to tell you that I thought I was this close to death and I was really close. I almost cried. I was going to cry and my wife turned to me, she wasn't my wife, she was the girl I was dating at the point, at the time, she looked at me and she goes, very funny.

• 30:27Speaker 02

  It's not a joke. She goes, I know you, you're always doing crazy shit. I go, no, I swear to you, this is, I didn't, I wouldn't, this is not, so like that was the, the reputation that preceded me. If I, if a girl would say, okay, and then her parents knew that she was going to go out with me, they would discourage her or they had to meet me someplace else so parents wouldn't see me. I had like the worst reputation and I swear to you, I'm a good person, I, I am, but I couldn't control, there was no, I couldn't control my, my behavior.

• 30:59Mayim Bialik?

  So you continued dating said woman and did you kind of have an awareness at that time over kind of your quirks or was it really, I mean, you got married, like was there, when did you sort of start digging into more about the things about you that maybe weren't so acceptable to other people?

• 31:19Speaker 02

  She did, I didn't. For me, you know, and even now, you know, there are so many people that because I use it in my humor, you know, there's, when you see this two masks of theater, you know, tragedy and comedy, they're very, there's, there's very little difference between, all comedy comes out of tragedy, comes out of darkness, you know, even if you're at the circus and you laugh at a clown falling down, what are you laughing at? You're laughing at the misfortune of somebody you don't know. You know, a pie in the face, you're laughing at somebody getting messed up, things that would probably ruin most people's evening. Time, so, you know, humor always comes out of darkness. That's why this is a really dark time for comedy because we're in a dark time, but God forbid, you know, you say anything, there's no such thing, in, in my mind,

• 32:04Speaker 02

  there's no such thing as too soon.

• 32:05Mayim Bialik?

  Sure.

• 32:06Speaker 02

  No such thing as, you know, if that's what gets you through, if I'm not laughing, I promise you, I'm crying. So that's my, you know, panacea to, to make it. So, but that was my, that's who I was, the, you know, my humor and my quirkiness were, you know, part of the, you know, the palette that I am. So what it was, nobody really talked about it as much as just accepted it. What happened was with my wife and eventually three children and now my grandchildren, is she realized that this is really tough and this is, she got more educated on it and said, you know, this is a problem. I'm making, I'm making, I'm putting the onus on my wife and my children, you know, don't touch that, now wash your hands, no, you can't go.

• 32:51Speaker 02

  You know, I got a million funny stories, hysterical stories that I get, but they're not really hysterical if you, you know, if you break them down, it's really, it was me suffering, but she kind of, she goes, I'm just getting tired of doing this, watching this, removing this, not getting this, not being able to order this, giving back the food, leaving the restaurant, you know, like it's just, it's a lot of work, Howie. I can't do this anymore. I'm tired, I wore her down. She just said, I can't do this. And when I went to therapy.

• 33:21Mayim Bialik?

  Wait, had you ever been to therapy before? No one ever said, go to, no, you were just operating in life, just happy as a clam or not happy as a clam, but you had never been in therapy?

• 33:31Speaker 02

  No, I was miserable. I spent a lot of time miserable. My resting mood is misery.

• 33:37Speaker 02

  It really is. So I'd never been before. And what she taught me is she goes, listen, Howie, you know, you spend a good part of your energy trying to control everything around you and making people try to live in your world. You know, nobody has to live in your world. You have to figure out how to live in everybody else's world. The only person you really have control over is yourself. You know, your happiness has to come or your contentment, or it only comes from within you. You know, it's not about, you know, what other people think of you. It's not about how people act around you. It's you, you know? So that's what I've been continually for the last 20 some odd years working on.

• 34:19Jonathan Cohen?

  Did that land for you when you first heard it?

• 34:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. Because the biggest effort, because I'm tired at the end of the day, is it's about control, you know, and controlling the people around me, controlling what you do, controlling how you eat, controlling what you pick up, controlling how close you stand to me, controlling what, you know, and the dichotomy between what I fell into in life, this business, and how I felt about it. Like, I'm not a people person. I'm not comfortable around crowds. I'm not comfortable around humanity. I'm really not. But, you know, I'm in show business, which, you know, the average person, if they bump into, you know, six people a week, that's a lot. They go to whatever job they have, and they go

• 35:03Speaker 02

  home and they see their family. And then how many times are you around people? In the course of any given week, whether it's audiences, I'm around thousands, thousands of people a week. You know, it's my biggest fear is, is kind of unfolding each and every moment of my life in front of me.

• 35:18Mayim Bialik?

  I think, I think you actually did an episode of Big Bang Theory when I was on. I don't think I was in the scene. I feel like it was the season finale of like, I don't know, five or six. But I remember that there was conversation about like, you know, people like, don't go up to him, don't try and hug him, like, give him his space. I remember this conversation about it. But I do have a question. This isn't like to put you on the spot, because I completely, I feel like you're, you're such a, no, no, no, but you're so articulate about your experience. So it's not like I'm trying to like, catch you. But a lot of people who listen to our podcast, and a lot of the feedback we get, and, you know, kind of, you know, a lot of what my experience was, you know, for example, with depression and things like that. There's a level of misery that you describe and you know you did a really, really brave article with,

• 36:02Mayim Bialik?

  with People Magazine and you talk about this in detail. But I guess what I'm curious about, can you tell us a little bit about what it's like, or what it was like for you to be you and also still find joy? Meaning you got married, you had children, like you had more than one child. Was that, were all of those things hard all along? And was it your wife that kind of kept the ship going?

• 36:30Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 36:31Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, yeah, can you talk a little bit about that?

• 36:33Speaker 02

  I will, but you know, and still even today, that's, that's what it is. I've told you, my resting mood is still misery, you know? And I believe that success in life, you know, and I talk about this a lot. People go, how do I make it? Like, how do, how do I become successful? And ultimately, and I truly believe this from, at this point in my life, you know? It's not, fame isn't something that's going to bring you any happiness. Notoriety, money, none of that brings happiness. When you have a moment of, I'm just looking to be content for one moment at a time. I just want to be happy or passionate about one moment at a time. And that's all you need.

• 37:15Speaker 02

  And you know, when I found stand-up comedy and, and I remember the day like it's yesterday, it was April 19th, 1978. I, that's the dare to get up on stage, you know? And that day, Terry was with me and I, we went to a Chinese restaurant. I have the fortune cookie and it says, you know, "Tonight, your life path will change." And I have it, I have it in a book. I put it in, in my book, I did my, and the fact that I have that, if I didn't have anything today, if I wasn't on any television show, or I wasn't doing stand-up, as long as I can go once a week to a comedy club, even if nobody knew who I was, that's really enough for me. That, that, that's the biggest, you know, safety net I have for myself.

• 38:00Speaker 02

  I would look forward to standing on stage and doing that. Nobody is happy. So, success is, which makes me unhappy in life, is find something, something. One little iota of something that you're passionate about. And no matter what you're suffering with, it is, I believe that one of the biggest coping skills in life is distraction, you know? And if you can distract yourself for that moment and get away, like... Can you imagine that most of the world wakes up each and every day and we hear about hump day, you know, which is the connotation is it's Wednesday and you're halfway through the week of doing all the shit that you hate doing, showing up to a place you don't want to go, being with the people you don't care about, just to get to Friday where you're

• 38:44Speaker 02

  just not doing that shit. It's not even like anything great is going to happen on Friday and Saturday, you know, it's just a stuff. We live in a, in a world where, you know, it's kind of normal to be unhappy, to not give yourself the gift, the passion, no matter how successful, no matter how famous you get, I promise you in two decades, nobody's going to know your name. You know, I have grandchildren now. They're not really familiar with the Beatles, you know, and you couldn't be bigger than, you know, but, but it, it, no matter, so it's nothing, you'll never achieve a level of something where you're going to go, oh, you know, everybody is just as famous and just as rich in the graveyard. So we have

• 39:25Speaker 02

  this little short path of time and we got to figure out how to enjoy a moment, a moment in life. So I'm always striving to kind of just be content.

• 39:39Mayim Bialik?

  So there's something, and I don't know if this will make it, but I have to ask it because one of the things that I most remember about knowing about you was that you were Jewish. And, you know, my, my parents are first generation Americans and, you know, they grew up in the Bronx in the 19, they were both born during World War II. And you're kind of this like, you're an in-between generation, meaning you're not as old as my parents, but you're older than me, like enough if my parents had me, let's say when I was young.

• 40:10Speaker 02

  Your parents did have you when you were young.

• 40:12Mayim Bialik?

  Well, sorry, I meant if my parents had had me younger, they would have been, never mind. Um, one of the things, though, that I do remember about you was knowing, like, this is a very, like, this is a comedian who's, and I don't even know if there was something specific attached to it, I just had this knowledge that, like, you were this, like, you know, kind of representative of so much of Jewish comedy.

• 40:37Speaker 02

  I'm very proud of my Judaism.

• 40:39Mayim Bialik?

  You know, I also was raised on, like, Jackie Mason and, like, very classic, like, Borscht Belt. And then, on the other hand, I was raised on, you know, the Woody Allen, which was very, you know, culturally Jewish, but not religious and not, you know, very, like, Yiddish-y. But there's this kind of notion to a lot of the things about you that do resonate very deeply with a certain kind of, you know, post-immigrant sort of experience. And this notion of if you don't laugh, you'll cry, or, you know, if you don't laugh, you'll cry, and this sort of notion that we're in a constant state of vigilance, you know? And it's something that we've talked about, that, you know, anxiety tends to run very high, you know, in certain communities, and the Jewish community is one of them.

• 41:21Mayim Bialik?

  And there is an aspect of hypervigilance that is a survival mechanism. So I kind of wonder, you know, if you feel that there's kind of, you know, a Jewishness to your style of comedy, to your style of thinking, or how that kind of factors in.

• 41:38Speaker 02

  Well, I think culturally, we are, probably to our own detriment, incredibly self-aware. That's why there's a lot of Jewish comedians. We, you know, Jackie Mason is one of my favorites of all time. You know, we poke fun at our culture. And, you know, you sit around a table of Jews, and you'll know, if there's 10 Jews at a table, you will be familiar with one of them's bowel movements in the last two weeks. You know, this is something Jews share that other people don't share, and it's probably better not to share, so that, but I've always been, I'm not a, I don't like organized religion, to be honest with you. But I do like the teaching, you know, I wasn't really, I was raised conservative.

• 42:21Speaker 02

  But, you know, I lost my father in the eighties and I was, it destroyed me. And in order to show, I thought, respect for him, I decided, if you're not Jewish and you're listening, we have the thing where you say Kaddish and every day and every, every morning and every night, you do a prayer for the dead. And in order to do this prayer, to show respect for the person that has passed, you have to get what is called a minyan, and that is, you need 10 other Jews, or you need nine other Jews to, in order to say the prayer, you can't even say the prayer alone. Everything is, uh, is, uh, has to be catered when you're Jewish, so you need more than you. So, um, you know, and as a stand-up comic, I was touring that summer and, or that year, I never missed a day.

• 43:05Speaker 02

  I did it because I knew my father would be proud. It wasn't something that I, that I would have done, but I wanted to make my father proud of me. He loved my act. And so when they negotiated all the deals for me to go out and do these tours, every night, number one, I couldn't start before sundown. I, I couldn't, because you have to be there and say these prayers before sundown or at sundown. And they had to find me.

• 43:30Mayim Bialik?

  Nine Jews?

• 43:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, you know, it's not like I'm not, I don't, most of touring is not always New York and LA.

• 43:38Mayim Bialik?

  I said Kaddish for a year and I found myself in all sorts of places where I was often, I thought, the only Jew in the whole city.

• 43:44Speaker 02

  Right. So, I thought it would have been a great documentary. So I would be like in the, you know, Alabama someplace and they would have to find me and sometimes they couldn't find, so that they would find out, they'd look at the obituaries and there was gonna be a funeral that day and I'd go to, I'd go to a funeral, I'd go to somebody's funeral and then I'd be back at their house and then they would send, put some haring in a bag and send me off to do, they didn't, and I'd go do this. But every day, I, when you do this, the rabbi who was ever officiating the, the ceremony does some teachings from the Talmud. And I got really kind of inspired by the teachings. And the teachings.

• 44:25Speaker 02

  Of the Talmud, and this is what I truly believe, I'm not espousing this on anybody who's listening, but whether you believe in God or not, you've got to believe that there is a power, whether that power be science or whatever, there's a power greater than us. The fact that if you've ever had a child, you go, oh, my God, this is a miracle. How does this even happen? And it's like, how are cells multiplying? How is humanity ever? You probably know this is neuroscience, but, but, but, you know, in order to, whatever this is, this universe is, it is a power greater than any one of us. And we must respect that power. And that is what I believe in. I respect that power. Whatever you want to name that, if you want to name it God, if you want to name it Jesus,

• 45:08Speaker 02

  I do respect that there is something greater than you and me out there. And not only that, and you know, they always go, the chosen people. I go, I don't believe in that kind of, I don't think one part of humanity is chosen over another, but we as human beings are chosen to be there for other people. I will talk a little Jewish. There is something in Judaism that's called sadaka. And sadaka is the ability to, to give, to be charitable without taking credit for it, which, you know, I don't think many Jews live by, because if you've ever been in the gold sting wing of your temple, that's exactly the opposite of what sadaka is. You know, you don't want to, you don't want to, you don't want to, for what you've done.

• 45:52Speaker 02

  But what I truly believe is that as a human being, if in your periphery, you see somebody in need, you need to reach out, you need to give. That is your duty as a human being. And all the practices of Judaism, like my kids didn't want to read or learn for their bar and bat mitzvahs. And they go, why do I have to do that? And I go, listen, the reason you have to do it, I don't care if you don't understand any of the words. This is just my philosophy. I don't care if you don't understand any of the words. This is in our religion where they delineate, that's why most bar mitzvahs say, today I am a man. This is where they delineate between childhood and adulthood, or the time to be responsible. If as a child, you know, you go, We've all had this as parents.

• 46:37Speaker 02

  The kid walks in the room and goes, why is that man fat? Why is, you're saying horrible things and maybe hurting people's feelings. But you go, oh, it's a child. He said something embarrassing. At 12 and 13 years old, that's no longer an excuse. At this point, you have to be a responsible human being. And as being a responsible human being, your presence on this earth, people should be better for knowing you. People should be helped because you're here. People should be, and that's also on the day we have the most holy day is called Yom Kippur. On Yom Kippur, what you should do is even if it's not about fasting or saying, for me, not about fasting and saying, every human should take a day and say, you know what? I've made some mistakes this year. I gotta be aware of those mistakes.

• 47:22Speaker 02

  And how can I grow as a human being? I want to be better next year than I am today. So, you know, it's called Judaism. I don't go to temple. I'm not kosher. I don't, I just want my kids to be really good human beings. And, you know, I think along the lines of the teaching of the Talmud and the teaching in Judaism, that's a good kind of path to follow parallel with. I'm not on the path, but I think as a human being, I just want, if I see that you need help and I can help you, I don't have to know you. I believe I should. It is my duty and my responsibility to help you. And to just try to be the best human being I can be. And in this path to do that, I just try to be content.

• 48:07Speaker 02

  I just want to not be miserable.

• 48:09Mayim Bialik?

  You know, with all the years of therapy under your belt, and I know you've spoken about that you do, you know, you do believe and use medication. What would you say are kind of the main differences that you experience in your life? Because I'm someone, I actually have OCD as well. And so there are a lot of things that shift and change. And there are certain things medication can touch. And there are certain things medication can't touch. Also, the topic of my thesis, my doctoral thesis was obsessive compulsive disorder in a particular population of individuals. So it's a topic that's really special to me for many reasons. But I'd like to know kind of what your experience is. What are the significant differences you see? Either in your OCD or in how you deal with it? Or in kind of your general mental health since being in therapy?

• 48:54Speaker 02

  Well, it's just about, and this is what I would say to anybody who's, who's listening. It's just about being open and malleable to.

• 49:04Speaker 02

  Recognizing that this is an issue and being willing to be open to whatever coping mechanism. You know, even with medication, I'm not a proponent of medication. I'm a proponent of doing whatever it takes to allow you to be more productive and to be able to survive. So, you know, there's been times when I've been medicated for two, three years and then whatever my body chemistry has changed. Or and then it's not working. And then I try a new medication, which has helped somebody else and I slide down the darkest hole you can ever imagine sliding down. And then I find that, you know, for a couple of years, it was running. I needed to run, you know, whatever.

• 49:45Speaker 02

  I would run 10 miles every single day until I my my ankle is like worn to nothing. And I was feeling the pain, but I needed that for my head, but that was a coping skill. So whether it's it's meditation, whether it's exercising, whether it's just talking about it, whether it's whatever it is, I'm open. And I also know that it's not something that there is a cure for. You know, I'm just doing the best I can today. I can't tell you that tomorrow won't be a horror show. And and and the medication that I'm on today will not have any effect on it. You know, your body chemistry, your hormones, everything is constantly, you know, this was your thesis. I know nothing about it. I'm just talking to you, you know, just from personal experience.

• 50:29Speaker 02

  I it's the the thing that gets me through is openness and open to just, you know, to to different solutions and different ideas. And if somebody told me a different idea today, I'd be open to try that. I'll try anything. My can, you know, being being strapped with this, you know, I I know you know, but I don't know how many people have come up to you and go, I got a little bit of the OCD.

• 50:58Mayim Bialik?

  People love saying that to me and I get really annoyed with it when they're like, I like my shoes lined up. I'm so OCD. I'm that annoying person who both as a neuroscientist and someone who has OCD says, that's actually not OCD. It may be, but stacking your shoes is not evident.

• 51:14Speaker 02

  No, but they, you know, the average person is it's, you know, not who doesn't, who likes germs?

• 51:19Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 51:19Speaker 02

  Who?

• 51:20Mayim Bialik?

  I actually don't mind germs. This is a feature of me. I was thinking about this today. I was to say something really gross that might gross you out, Mr. Mandel. You know, your AirPod case? You know how they build up an enormous amount of earwax? My children have never cleaned theirs and I kid you not, I was just like, give me your cases. And they were like, ew, don't, doesn't even bother me, cleaned them right out. It gave me great pleasure.

• 51:47Speaker 02

  But that's not my issue either. The point is that, you know, what I try to explain to people is with OCD, OCD for, for me are, whether there are rituals or obtrusive thoughts or whatever, that I get and you obviously get them too. That totally stopped my life.

• 52:06Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 52:06Speaker 02

  When I am suffering in, in, in the midst of, uh, whatever issue I'm dealing with, I can't deal with life. I've missed appointments, I've missed productions, it stops my fucking life. And I understand why somebody like Howard Hughes ended his life, at the end of his life, he was naked in the fetal position, pissing into a bottle. And I tell people, you have no idea how many times in my life I am that close to that. And it's not a joke, but as a comedian, and you're also kind of thought of as very lighthearted.

• 52:38Mayim Bialik?

  Right. Well, you know.

• 52:40Speaker 02

  No?

• 52:41Mayim Bialik?

  I sometimes, a lot of people think I'm, well, I think it's different. I think when, when women are.

• 52:47Speaker 02

  You've been involved in comedy.

• 52:48Mayim Bialik?

  No, I, I consider myself a comedian, I really do, but I think, you know, there's a lot of things that, I think also when, when women say them, it's taken different than when men do.

• 52:57Speaker 02

  And we each have our own path and our own experience.

• 53:00Mayim Bialik?

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:00Speaker 02

  And, uh, you know, hearing somebody, well, I have OCD too, doesn't make me more comfortable in my life.

• 53:06Mayim Bialik?

  Exactly.

• 53:06Speaker 02

  I'm suffering and I don't know why they're telling me that. And I always say, I, I hope you're exaggerating, I hope you, because I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.

• 53:16Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 53:17Speaker 02

  I really do suffer, you know, and I'm not looking for pity.

• 53:20Mayim Bialik?

  Sure.

• 53:21Speaker 02

  There isn't anybody in life that doesn't have, you know, some cross to bear. Coming from a Jew, that means a lot. And, and, uh, you know, we all have our issues and things are harder for one than harder for another, but it's, it's worth it, you know, it's worth the fight, it's worth the struggle, but it is a fight. It is a struggle, life is a struggle. Right now, the last couple of years, I think most of the world has been going through a fight and a struggle.

• 53:46Mayim Bialik?

  Yep.

• 53:46Speaker 02

  You know, people have been making jokes about me because I'm the germaphobe and they go, you called it. And I go, well.

• 53:51Mayim Bialik?

  You're like, I can handle this global pandemic. I am on it.

• 53:55Speaker 02

  This has been horrible for me.

• 53:56Mayim Bialik?

  Yes. What can we, I mean, your bio, you do so many amazing things. You host so many amazing things. You produce so many amazing things. You have a podcast with your daughter. What would you like to sort of prominently plug before we let you go?

• 54:09Speaker 02

  My podcast with my daughter. I do this thing called Howie Mandel Does Stuff, and that was a coping mechanism. So my daughter, who also, you know, a lot of this is genetic, who also suffers like myself or like herself. And she was locked away for two years. I mean, she didn't leave the house with her kids. She has two kids. And so we used to phone each other and I'd sit on the phone with her for hours and we would do everything to distract ourselves, whether it was call friends and we would all discuss or make prank calls, you know, and just to, you know, distract ourselves or just goof around and have weird conversations about the news of the day. And my wife walked in one day and said, what

• 54:50Speaker 02

  are you, what are you doing? And I just said, I'm just been on the phone for two hours with Jackie. And she said, you should record it. It sounds, some of it sounds funny. And that became our podcast. It's called Howie Mandel Does Stuff. It's with my daughter. We have, I'd love to have you on.

• 55:04Mayim Bialik?

  I would love to come on.

• 55:06Speaker 02

  All right. So I will, I'll hit you up for that.

• 55:08Mayim Bialik?

  I would love that.

• 55:10Speaker 02

  And, you know, we do, once a week, we do a podcast. We have friends. It's just goofy. It's unlike yours is much more, there's much more gravitas and probably does good. I don't know that we do any good, except we just have a really good time and we're enjoying ourselves. Like I even, there was a podcast company that wanted to do my podcast. I went with them and then there was, there was too many restrictions. We don't even have, I don't have sponsors. I don't have anything. We're just doing it out of the love of doing it.

• 55:38Mayim Bialik?

  Awesome.

• 55:39Jonathan Cohen?

  Make Mime have some fun.

• 55:40Mayim Bialik?

  I have a lot of fun.

• 55:42Jonathan Cohen?

  Howie, I have one question. Do you still do?

• 55:44Mayim Bialik?

  Is this about Canada?

• 55:45Jonathan Cohen?

  No.

• 55:45Mayim Bialik?

  Okay.

• 55:46Jonathan Cohen?

  Do you still do pranks that are only for yourself?

• 55:48Speaker 02

  All the time. I make phone calls if all, every day, every, every time I get a spam call, you know, with my car's warranty, an extended warranty, or I've won Marriott points, my new little self indulgence is trying to keep them on the line as long as possible.

• 56:09Jonathan Cohen?

  I want to hear that recording alone.

• 56:11Speaker 02

  I've recorded a bunch of those and I, but I don't even play them. I don't put them on. I just do it all the time. I feel, I don't know, there's something about being able to manipulate another person for good, you know, just for, it's just fun. They're annoying me with their phone call at seven in the morning. My record now is 55 minutes. I've kept somebody on.

• 56:29Mayim Bialik?

  Wow.

• 56:30Speaker 02

  Just trying to get them to spell their name because I'm writing it down really slowly.

• 56:35Mayim Bialik?

  I was a huge Phil Hendry fan and also Jerky Boy. I was, I mean, I was, I don't know. I'm sure he's been canceled, but that was some of my favorite stuff, that and the Jerky Boys. So yeah, really, really, that's good stuff. Anyway.

• 56:48Speaker 02

  Well, if you're up for it, you can come and do a prank with us.

• 56:50Mayim Bialik?

  I'm told my voice is very distinctive, so.

• 56:53Jonathan Cohen?

  I would love that. We should record it. We'll release it as a special edition.

• 56:59Mayim Bialik?

  One of the things that's missing from your psychiatric profile, which is very present in mine, and I'm always comparing and despairing, is I have a tremendous social anxiety problem. Meaning I can't, I don't have the kind of freedom that it sounds like you find.

• 57:17Speaker 02

  No, I'll tell you something. If I'm on stage.

• 57:20Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 57:21Speaker 02

  If we're doing this podcast, I have freedom.

• 57:23Mayim Bialik?

  No, no, no. I mean, like if I go on a, like improv makes me cry in a way that's not healthy or fun. Like I, I feel, I.

• 57:31Speaker 02

  No, no, you're improv, but I, but then, then the pressure's on, you know, it's like I will not go to, I don't go to parties. I don't go to, you know, I, I can't, I can't carry on a conversation.

• 57:42Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 57:43Speaker 02

  I can't carry on a conversation.

• 57:45Mayim Bialik?

  Well, that's why I bring this guy.

• 57:46Speaker 02

  In my, in my mind, I'm, you know, if I talk to somebody, I bore them to death. I'm coming off like an idiot.

• 57:53Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, I don't like that.

• 57:54Speaker 02

  Funny and I can't think of anything. And, and it kills me. And then I go home or I make an excuse or I'm out. I have social anxiety. I have horrible, horrible depression. I have everything. I mean, we're not, look at two dudes.

• 58:08Mayim Bialik?

  I was gonna say, it's like a contest and you want to win. I want to win, okay? Okay, we're gonna let you go. Howie Mandel, thank you so much. This was really a pleasure. Absolutely. Take care. Be well.

• 58:19Jonathan Cohen?

  Nice to meet you.

• 58:20Mayim Bialik?

  Your father's Neshama should have an Aaliyah.

• 58:26Mayim Bialik?

  I like Howie Mandel a lot. And I do remember when he was on Big Bang Theory, it was like this big deal of like, "He's coming. He doesn't want to touch anyone." I could have talked to him for another hour. Like, I had so many questions about germophobia, which is distinct from OCD. It can be a feature of OCD. It's one of the things that can happen in OCD, but not all germaphobes have OCD, and not all people with OCD are germaphobes.

• 58:51Jonathan Cohen?

  I would have talked to him for a lot longer.

• 58:53Mayim Bialik?

  Because you're Canadian.

• 58:54Jonathan Cohen?

  We didn't share this, but he stayed on afterwards, and he was asking you questions, which not many guests do.

• 58:59Mayim Bialik?

  No, and I was actually thinking, I wish, this is the kind of person I wish would ask me about myself. I want to talk to him.

• 59:04Jonathan Cohen?

  Do you think you're like Bev, where you thought it, and then it happened? Like she sees her-

• 59:09Mayim Bialik?

  I inceded Howie Mandel to ask how I am.

• 59:12Jonathan Cohen?

  I think that might have happened.

• 59:13Mayim Bialik?

  You know, it's really, there's that word again. Like, it's really brave to be like, "Here are all the things about me that are clinically diagnosed, and that I have to be in therapy and take medication for." Like, and he said he was really nervous, that like, nobody would hire him, and you know. I envy his kind of lack of, you know, fear about feedback, you know? Like, he's so, I don't want to say impulsive, but he really just like, he acts, he does things, and I... Even though he says he's not, doesn't have a lot of like, what did he say?

• 59:43Jonathan Cohen?

  Foresight, yeah.

• 59:45Mayim Bialik?

  Or, what's the opposite?

• 59:46Jonathan Cohen?

  Hindsight?

• 59:47Mayim Bialik?

  Or hindsight. I found him very thoughtful. You know, he's very thoughtful about the way he approaches his mental health, and it's just an amazing story, you know? To make those kinds of changes after so many years of just like, getting by, you know? I think that's really, that's incredible. It's, I find it really inspiring. Maybe I'll finally change. Just kidding.

• 1:00:09Jonathan Cohen?

  The story of his first stand-up performance, and him being like, what? Like, being so engaged with the audience. Number one, I think that would just, I could see the reenactment in the 70s. It's smoke-filled downtown Toronto in yuck yucks, but also-

• 1:00:27Mayim Bialik?

  Tell us about downtown Toronto in yuck yucks.

• 1:00:31Jonathan Cohen?

  You laughed harder at the funeral minion story in Alabama and that whole Jewish tint than I think you have in all of the podcasts we've done so far.

• 1:00:42Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, that's, that, that, I mean, first of all, just like, as someone who said Kaddish for my father and, and did have to try and find a minion. Also, imagine being a woman where in many places you are not even counted as one of the 10. So, um, I remember I was in Savannah, Georgia, and I, I called ahead of time to try and find a place, you know, that would, that had a regular minion. And that's the thing is that Reform and conservative synagogues often don't have a daily minion, but Orthodox ones always do. So, um, that's the place that I could most rely. So I just, I know that struggle and I just love the idea, you know, that, that's the way to find Jews is like, find out if there's a funeral and there's your minion.

• 1:01:24Jonathan Cohen?

  I love that he just says, okay. I mean, I wanted to make the joke that that's how we got on this podcast. We just asked him and he said, yes. And he's like, what am I doing here?

• 1:01:32Mayim Bialik?

  That's kind of how we do a lot of things, you and me.

• 1:01:34Jonathan Cohen?

  That's how Matthew McConaughey got on the podcast.

• 1:01:36Mayim Bialik?

  He said, well, that's...

• 1:01:38Jonathan Cohen?

  He just said, all right. Who are these people? We don't know.

• 1:01:40Mayim Bialik?

  Well, it was really, um, very special, again, you know, to get to meet someone who I really did grow up, you know, knowing as an icon. Um, and it is, it is a really big deal. You know, he was one of the first Jewish comedians that wasn't 86 years old that I knew about. And, um, yeah, just really, really awesome. And he does so many things.

• 1:02:00Jonathan Cohen?

  He's on all the shows.

• 1:02:02Mayim Bialik?

  He hosts the Things and America's Got Talent and, and then he produces and Deal or No Deal. Like, he does so many things. And this podcast, I can't wait to listen. That just sounds incredible. And I'm gonna make my kids listen and be like, one day you'll do a podcast with me.

• 1:02:15Jonathan Cohen?

  I love the fact that his parents were laughing in the principal's office at the prank.

• 1:02:20Mayim Bialik?

  I bet his parents were awesome.

• 1:02:21Jonathan Cohen?

  That's the thing is like, other parents would be like, trying to change him and that his parents were just like, trying to control their laughter.

• 1:02:28Mayim Bialik?

  I'm surprised you didn't compare getting kicked out of school stories.

• 1:02:30Jonathan Cohen?

  I never got kicked out of school. I left school.

• 1:02:33Mayim Bialik?

  You, you dumped them before they could dump you.

• 1:02:37Jonathan Cohen?

  Exactly.

• 1:02:39Mayim Bialik?

  Do we have an Ask My Em Anything?

• 1:02:40Jonathan Cohen?

  We certainly do. Ask My Em Anything, yeah. Betsy W. asks, can you meditate yourself out of a mental illness?

• 1:02:49Mayim Bialik?

  Well, Betsy, that's a good question. Lord knows I've tried.

• 1:02:57Mayim Bialik?

  No. Mental illness is not something that we typically think of as kind of you getting rid of. There are ways to manage the symptoms of a mental illness. You know, meditation is one of those things that certain kinds of meditation can help, you know, activate aspects of your nervous system that will ultimately be able to calm you down and help you lower your baseline anxiety. You know, meditation has many physical benefits, psychological benefits. I think of meditation as kind of a supportive treatment. It's something to add to your toolbox and is how he spoke about, like, being open to, like, anything and learning different kinds of things that might work.

• 1:03:43Mayim Bialik?

  Meditation is now, you know, kind of prescribed along with a lot of therapy for depression, for anxiety. Meditation can absolutely help. And I also don't want it to be like, you have a terminal illness and you'll never get better. Meditation is absolutely helpful for really any mental health challenge or for general mental wellness, even if you don't have a diagnosis. But it's generally seen as a supportive thing to do along with whatever else you're doing to work on your mental health challenges. So, thank you and we wish you the best.

• 1:04:14Jonathan Cohen?

  Before we go, do you want to comment on my new glasses? Did you notice them? For those people who are listening, I'm trying out a new pair of specs today.

• 1:04:21Mayim Bialik?

  Your new glasses are very nice. It's a round shape. It's a horn rim. Lot of color for you.

• 1:04:28Jonathan Cohen?

  Lot of color.

• 1:04:29Mayim Bialik?

  Because it's tortoiseshell on the top and kind of a, not an amber, but yeah, they look very nice. Brings out the gold in your beard.

• 1:04:38Jonathan Cohen?

  Well, that's a great description of them.

• 1:04:40Mayim Bialik?

  And a great way to end the show.

• 1:04:42Jonathan Cohen?

  For anyone who wants to, you can comment at.

• 1:04:45Mayim Bialik?

  Bialik breakdown on Instagram. Also, make sure to follow us on Instagram. We're enjoying building up our fan base and sharing a lot more personal content there than I do on my Instagram page. And it's become a fun place. We're doing giveaways, so make sure to follow us there.

• 1:05:00Jonathan Cohen?

  If you want to ask Mayim anything, you could do so at bialikbreakdown.com. That's B I A.

• 1:05:04Mayim Bialik?

  L I K.

• 1:05:05Jonathan Cohen?

  Breakdown.com. Thank you, everyone. And if you haven't already subscribed to the podcast, do it anywhere you get podcasts. Subscribe to Mayim's YouTube channel and thanks so much for listening.

• 1:05:16Mayim Bialik?

  From our breakdown to the one we hope you never have, we'll see you next time.