Re-Air: Melissa Joan Hart: Teaching Mayim About Clam Breeding & Christmas!

In honor of the holiday season, we are revisiting our conversation with Melissa Joan Hart! Melissa Joan Hart (Sabrina the Teenage Witch, Clarissa Explains It All, What Women Binge podcast) explains how she got her starts on her iconic television series, her Blossom audition, what it’s like to have your mom as your manager, and how her strong sense of responsibility helped her cope with the pressures of being a child actor. She and Mayim bond over starring in female character-driven shows around the same time and Melissa teaches Mayim about "Christmas Culture." Melissa opens up about her journey as a lifelong learner, her foray into directing, and the fascinating story about how her mom inadvertently became her manager. Subscribe on Substack for Ad-Free Episodes & Bonus Content: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BialikBreakdown.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.bialikbreakdown.com/ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube.com/mayimbialik⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/mayimbialik%E2%81%A0 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Mayim Bialik?

  Hi, I'm Mayim Bialik.

• 0:06Jonathan Cohen?

  And I'm Jonathan Cohen.

• 0:07Mayim Bialik?

  And welcome to our breakdown. Well, the weather outside is frightful.

• 0:14Mayim Bialik?

  That's just one of the Christmas songs I like to sing at this time of year. Happy holiday season, everyone. We're revisiting today a really fun episode with the queen of Christmas herself. Who? Melissa Joan Hart. This is from a couple of years ago. You know Melissa from, obviously, Sabrina the Teenage Witch, Clarissa Explains It All, and basically most Christmas movies that have come out in the last 20 years.

• 0:39Jonathan Cohen?

  Before Mayim continues to tell you about this episode, which is phenomenal, and, you know, I wasn't in it, actually, when it first recorded, so I'm here with you all revisiting it. I'll tell you a little bit of story about Mayim. There's a local Christmas party that we went to last year, and we're gonna go again this year. And Mayim's favorite activity during a Christmas party is leaving the Christmas party.

• 1:05Jonathan Cohen?

  Especially when the Christmas carols start. She is such a good caroller, and she's such a good singer, but there's something about collective singing and dancing that maybe freaks her out a little bit.

• 1:16Mayim Bialik?

  I think this is a misrepresentation. There's actually a lot that is really fun and joyful, even if you don't celebrate Christmas, which I don't. But in this episode, we actually talk about kind of Christmas culture. So we thought it was a perfect episode to let you hear. So she also talks about ChristmasCon. There's a conference, an annual conference, all about Christmas. Jonathan, I want you to surprise me and take me one year.

• 1:42Jonathan Cohen?

  We should go. Can we dress up?

• 1:44Mayim Bialik?

  Of course. Melissa also talks about how she got her start on the iconic shows that she was on, but she talks about her blossom audition. What? What did she audition for? You're gonna wanna find out. We also bond over starring in female-character-driven shows, and that was really, really fun to get to talk to her about. And she also has so much interaction with Joey Lawrence in her life, so we talk about that as well.

• 2:06Jonathan Cohen?

  Friendly reminder, check out Mayim Bialik's Breakdown on Substack, where we explore the intersection of science and spirituality, and we get really into a lot of details that we don't get to dive into on the podcast. It's a growing Breaker community. Gift it to a friend this holiday season. We have a special going on. Check out Mind B Alex Breakdown on Substack.

• 2:29Mayim Bialik?

  Giddy up, Jingle Horse. Kick up your feet. Happy holidays, everyone. And thanks for spending 2025 with us. It's been a fantastic year as we get to know so many more of you. We'll see you in 2026. We're going to take the last week of the year off, but we promise we have so much exciting content in store for all of you that you don't want to miss. We hope you enjoy taking a listen back at our episode with Melissa Joan Hart. Merry Christmas, happy holidays, and happy new year to our entire Mind B Alex Breakdown family.

• 2:56Speaker 02

  Break it down.

• 2:58Mayim Bialik?

  Melissa, welcome to the podcast.

• 3:01Speaker 03

  Thank you. What a great intro. Thank you.

• 3:03Mayim Bialik?

  You know, I don't usually do, I don't usually do intros in front of the person, largely because I hate when people talk about me in front of me. But since Jonathan isn't here and it's just you and me, I felt like I'm going to go for it.

• 3:16Speaker 03

  Oh, I loved it. I loved it.

• 3:17Mayim Bialik?

  Um, thank you so much for being here.

• 3:20Speaker 03

  Of course. I just can't believe we haven't met. We have so much in common.

• 3:23Mayim Bialik?

  That's what I was going to say. We, we really, I mean, we're, I think, a year difference in age. But our lives have like, kind of been, you know, in parallel aspects of, you know, many iterations of television existence and then having a life beyond what we were known for on television. What years was Clarissa Explains It All?

• 3:46Speaker 03

  Clarissa was about, I think it was like 89 to 93.

• 3:50Mayim Bialik?

  Right. So I think that's what I remember is that you were, you know, at that age, I was like, she's younger than me, even though it was like a year. But, you know, for us with Blossom, we started, you know, a year or so after. And then we didn't really gain steam, you know, until our like second season, second, third season. So, you know, what I knew of you is that, you know, you existed, like I did, on television as a girl. And, you know, really not since kind of like Gidget, you know, did we really have shows that were like truly, truly about, like really about a girl.

• 4:28Speaker 03

  Did you know that I auditioned for Six at the same time as I was auditioning for Clarissa?

• 4:32Mayim Bialik?

  I did not know that.

• 4:34Speaker 03

  I think it was up, I think it was between me and Jenna. I think it was like that close. I went like three times to three auditions for both.

• 4:42Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 4:43Speaker 03

  I remember praying at night and being like, God, let me make or let the right thing happen that will, you know, like, and it was like really interesting. Obviously, you had already had the part of Blossom, but I was auditioning for Six that is kind of crazy because I do talk fast and I think I could have had some fun with that part. But I mean, Jenna was brilliant and she's a good friend.

• 5:00Mayim Bialik?

  That is so funny.

• 5:02Speaker 03

  So I'm in my office and I'm like a hoarder. I have like memorabilia everywhere. So I have this Nickelodeon thing and it's something about girls punching through like that girls.

• 5:10Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, my gosh. That is so cool.

• 5:14Speaker 03

  Funny. I think it says something about Nickelodeon punches through ratings barrier, something about one of the first times a girl like girls will be watched as lead.

• 5:22Mayim Bialik?

  That is incredible.

• 5:24Speaker 03

  And it's the same time, like we were doing this exactly the same.

• 5:27Mayim Bialik?

  That did not exist on NBC. Let me tell you, we had a lot of Playboy models to try and break through that ratings barrier. But that's incredible. Okay. But so many amazing things. Also, like you got to work with Joey Lawrence. Like, we have so many fun things that we can talk about.

• 5:43Speaker 03

  I've known Joey since I was like four years old.

• 5:45Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, so, so take us back because you are from a place in New York that I've never heard of, which is fine because there's a New York's a very large state. People are just like, New York? No, it's actually the tiniest part is that little island that people think of. But you are from, is it upstate? It's to the west. It's near Philadelphia. It's, oh, it's Long Island.

• 6:05Speaker 03

  Long Island. Yeah. Sayville. Yeah. So Long Island, it's like right in the middle of the island on the South Shore. It's like where the ferries go to Fire Island.

• 6:13Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, got it.

• 6:14Speaker 03

  We used to drive into the city to audition all the time. That's how I'd actually run into Jenna. I'd run into Joey. And so I auditioned a lot in New York. And then when I started Clarissa, my parents got divorced. So I moved to the city when I was about 12 or 13.

• 6:26Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, so I need to understand, though, you are a child, just like growing up, and I'm assuming you're adorable because, you know, people are adorable. And was this like your, your, your parents, they were not in the industry?

• 6:41Speaker 03

  No, my dad was a clam, like a clam breeder. My mom was like.

• 6:47Mayim Bialik?

  You can't just say that and expect me to let you keep talking. Is it clam breeder? Do they need help?

• 6:55Speaker 03

  My dad gets it.

• 6:56Mayim Bialik?

  They do? They don't know how to do it on their own?

• 6:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, he would impregnate the... Now he impregnates oysters.

• 7:02Mayim Bialik?

  What's happening? What? That's not my Long Island. This is the other kind of people that live on Long Island, okay?

• 7:11Speaker 03

  This, you would actually be fascinated to talk to my little sister.

• 7:13Mayim Bialik?

  I'm already fascinated.

• 7:16Speaker 03

  Well, they're like, my father and now my sister are like accidental marine biologists. Because they got into this business of like, my father and my uncle owned a boatyard and they started taking clams and figuring out how to kind of breed them.

• 7:29Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 7:29Speaker 03

  So they would then put them in the bay and they, I don't know if you ever went across the Great South Bay to Fire Island or something? You'd see a tree, just like a random tree with like a bag on top.

• 7:40Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 7:41Speaker 03

  And that means that's where someone's planted their oysters or clams down below. And so they kind of breed them there.

• 7:46Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, I'm sorry. We're going to get to all the things that everybody wants to hear about. However, as someone who wanted to be a marine biologist in middle school, I need to talk about this. I've known this at some point because as a neuroscientist, I was trained in biology. How do oysters and clams have sex?

• 8:04Speaker 03

  Um, I think it's something about, I mean, you're asking the wrong person.

• 8:07Mayim Bialik?

  There's boys and girls?

• 8:08Speaker 03

  The rest of my family, but it's something about taking like the, I don't know if there's a male oyster, but like they spray something into the water. There's my sister, my sister has this like maternity ward. So it's like a tank and there's certain oysters and then they'll like put something in, like it'll look like a handful of sand and there'll be thousands of baby oysters. So they'll breed them to that level and then they'll sell them to like Blue Point or someone. And maybe they send it to like, they probably won't send it to like PEI or something, but they'll do it around Long Island, Connecticut.

• 8:36Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 8:36Speaker 03

  And then those oysters become, you know, they, they grow in the water that they're claimed after.

• 8:41Mayim Bialik?

  Did they have pearls?

• 8:43Speaker 03

  No, I don't know. I've never, not that I know of.

• 8:45Mayim Bialik?

  A certain kind. Okay, so I need to ask another question. This is just your dad. I can't wait till we get to your mom. But did you like, was it like, we ate clams every night?

• 8:54Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. My mom won't eat them to this day.

• 8:57Mayim Bialik?

  Is that why they got divorced? She's like, do not bring another clam in this house.

• 9:00Speaker 03

  Currently, I think the clam business wasn't really getting her the fur coat and diamonds she wanted, so. No, that makes her sound spoiled. She's not spoiled.

• 9:08Mayim Bialik?

  No, no, no, but I, please, I get it. So you would just like, you would eat clams? You would like, you?

• 9:14Speaker 03

  Lobsters. We actually got into lobsters.

• 9:16Mayim Bialik?

  I was raised kosher. You need to know, this is like the farthest thing from things that I know about. I've never eaten one.

• 9:22Speaker 03

  No?

• 9:23Mayim Bialik?

  No, I was raised kosher and that was like when I, when my mom stopped being kosher. It wasn't like, let's get, we couldn't afford a clam. So I've seen them eaten. It is not interesting to me at all. But you, are there other ways to eat? I just know that they're like steamed and sometimes there's pasta around them.

• 9:38Speaker 03

  So many ways. Clams are one thing I'll eat anyway that they're, they can be baked, they can be like chopped, they can be cooked, they can be raw.

• 9:44Mayim Bialik?

  People fry them. It's an Italian thing.

• 9:47Speaker 03

  Yeah. You put them in your linguine. Yeah, you like everything, like you'll have linguine and clam sauce.

• 9:52Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, yeah. Oh, clam sauce. That's from clams. I don't want to know about how they get that. Okay. So that's what your, that's what, that's what your dad did?

• 10:02Speaker 03

  Yep. And then he, he segued to a construction company and then to lobsters. He was a lobster wholesaler.

• 10:07Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, where else would you go if not lobsters? I've also never had a lobster.

• 10:11Speaker 03

  They were like a dollar a pound. So we would, you know, as opposed to when you buy them in the, you know, restaurant, they're 50 bucks, like.

• 10:17Mayim Bialik?

  They're also alive in a tank and you watch them and it's like a whole thing. I'm a vegan. It's not working. Okay. So that was your, that was your dad's life. Was your, was your, so your mom was not in the, she was a stay at home mom?

• 10:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, she was really young. She had me right before her 20th birthday.

• 10:32Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, wow.

• 10:33Speaker 03

  And then when she was 22, had my, like every two years had a kid and she's got. So I'm the oldest of eight siblings, so it's a very big family. Yeah.

• 10:44Mayim Bialik?

  So your dad was breeding clams, your mother just bred humans?

• 10:49Speaker 03

  Sorry.

• 10:49Mayim Bialik?

  It was true. I mean that very respectfully. Okay, so how many of you were there? Are those all from your biological mom and dad?

• 10:58Speaker 03

  Five.

• 10:58Mayim Bialik?

  Wow.

• 10:59Speaker 03

  Four sisters and a brother. And then my mom remarried and had two. My dad remarried and had one.

• 11:03Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 11:04Speaker 03

  Except for my brother.

• 11:05Mayim Bialik?

  Wow.

• 11:05Speaker 03

  And today's my birthday, so happy birthday to my brother.

• 11:08Mayim Bialik?

  So you, do you remember liking to perform? Was this just something like, oh, we live near the city? And like, let's see if she can be in commercials? Because like, that was a thing that happened.

• 11:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was really, do you remember the show Rumpa Room? When we were little?

• 11:21Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, who doesn't remember Rumpa Room?

• 11:24Speaker 03

  That was the, that was my inciting incident. Like, I...

• 11:29Mayim Bialik?

  Rumpa Room was an inciting incident for many things, but for Melissa Joan Hart, it was to become an actress.

• 11:34Speaker 03

  I had to be on that. I had them, I needed them to say my name on that show, The Magic Mirror, at the end, right? And I realized, I put it together that like, I was four. And I was like, I need her to say Melissa. She'll never say Melissa. And then I realized, oh, she's saying the names of the kids in the audience. So I have to be in the audience for her to say my name. So I told my mom, like, I'm gonna need to get on TV. And she goes, actually, I know someone who just did that. I know someone who got their kid in, like, they're doing a commercial or something. Maybe I'll call them. So she called and she got me an audition. And then she got me another audition. I mean, I got the audition and the callback, but it was so expensive to take the car into the city or the train into the city and take taxis around. And, you know, then try to eat in the city and then get home. It was an hour and a half each way to the city.

• 12:16Speaker 03

  So by the time she got the call that I booked the job, she goes, I can't afford to bring her anymore. We're done. And they're like, no, no, no, you're gonna get paid now. Like, now that she got the job, you'll get paid. And she was like, oh, okay. Well, maybe we'll try that again. So I booked my first audition, my third audition, my fifth audition. And then I was just rolling.

• 12:34Mayim Bialik?

  Wow.

• 12:35Speaker 03

  So she became like, she was probably 24 at the time.

• 12:38Mayim Bialik?

  I was gonna say, she was a, she was a kid herself, right?

• 12:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. And she had three kids at that point. So she's like dragging us all to the city. Wow. Doing auditions with us and taking us home.

• 12:48Mayim Bialik?

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• 13:31Mayim Bialik?

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• 14:15Mayim Bialik?

  know it was My and Be Alex Breakdown. It's the best way to support our show. So you, you know, you did a lot of things and I guess the first kind of, I guess the first kind of thing that that people now know you for, you know, as a sort of long-term gig, though, was Clarissa. Do you remember?

• 14:36Mayim Bialik?

  Do you remember sort of what the process was around that kind of set of auditions and that time of your life?

• 14:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it was like, literally, I'm simultaneously auditioning for Clarissa and for Blossom. And so, like, I'm in the city, like, auditioning. I felt like it went on for weeks, right? Of like, will I get one of these shows, you know? And so with Clarissa, it was, I remember the third audition, I think, was the one where, I guess I wore the same outfit. I don't know if you did this, like.

• 15:04Mayim Bialik?

  Yep. If they liked it once, they're gonna like it again.

• 15:06Speaker 03

  Yep. Lucky, lucky outfit. I booked it once, or they liked it so far, we're gonna keep traveling down that road. So I wore like a pink t-shirt and like bright blue overalls. And I guess the strap kept falling at the same point each time. And he thought it was like, like I was doing like a thing. He thought I was like, you know, that, you know, kind of actor that was like planning when I was gonna lift this, like it was part of, like I wrote it in my script or something. And I was like, no, I think I did the same body movement and it fell.

• 15:31Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 15:32Speaker 03

  Anyway, so I go in for the third audition and I'm meeting with the producer and he asks me, he goes, do you like New Kids on the Block? And I immediately went, oh, I hate them. And then I went, oh my gosh, he probably, he's in the industry, he knows them. Like, why would I say that? And he goes, oh, okay, who do you like? And I went, they might be giants? And he was like, okay. And I'm like, I blew it. I blew it. I left the audition, I was like, I didn't get it, I didn't get it. My mom goes, we're wasting our time on these auditions all the time. And, you know, you know, it's always when you're ready to quit the business that you get something. So we were ready to quit the business and then, and then Clarissa happened.

• 16:07Mayim Bialik?

  Wow. And I just, you know, I wanna, I wanna kind of underscore like how significant, you know, that was for you as an actress. You know, my experience was like, I was in this movie and like people were like, oh, you should have your own show. But that's like a very, that's like a strange route. I mean, every route is strange, I think, for the lives that we, that we live. But what I think is so exceptional about your story, it's like, it's really, really like hardcore fantasy of like. You, you know, they could have picked any number of girls, right?

• 16:40Speaker 03

  They didn't want a blonde. They refused to have a blonde play Clarissa. Like, the producer did not want me. He was trying everything, but did not have me. Because he thought that smart girls can't be blonde. Like, he wanted her to be smart, nonconformist, you know?

• 16:53Mayim Bialik?

  Ah, the 80s.

• 16:55Speaker 03

  And he was like, "I don't want a blonde. Like, that's not what I'm looking for here." And I had done a play, I was big into Broadway when I was, like, maybe between the ages of, like, 8 and 12. And I had just done, or was doing, at the same time as I was auditioning, I was doing a play at night at the Players Theater called Imagining Brad. And I was this small part, I was a monologue at the opening of the play called "The Valerie of Now." And I was onstage for 30 minutes by myself, singing, dancing. It's a little girl who just got her period for the first time and doesn't know what to do. And it's just sort of her flailing, like, "What do I do? What do I do?" And she sort of comes to the realization that she's a woman now in that night. But then you find out the next part of the play, it gets a little dark, but like, the next part of the play is that she's,

• 17:38Speaker 03

  you find out that she was beaten and abused by her father that night. So she marries a man with no arms and no legs. So it's a very strange, it was written by Peter Hedges. It was directed by Joe Mantello, who went on to do Wicked and, like, massive, right, like, huge shows. And so it was because of that play, though, that a veterinarian of the producer,

• 17:59Speaker 03

  I guess the producer went into the vet's office and found a dog named Valerie and was like, "Why did you name the dog Valerie?" He's like, "I found it in an alleyway after this play last night. This girl was amazing." And he was like, "You need to see her for the audition for Clarissa." And that's why, so the veterinarian recommended me. It was, like, very strange.

• 18:16Mayim Bialik?

  You essentially were, you know, were chosen to be the face of, like, what became, like, a brand and an identity, you know, and like, a touch point for such, also, like, a really specific part of that genre of television, you know?

• 18:32Speaker 03

  Well, and the launching of cable, right? So we were, like, you, Blossom took a little while to get off, we really took a long time to get off the ground because nobody had cable, really, at this time.

• 18:41Mayim Bialik?

  I didn't.

• 18:42Speaker 03

  At least now. A lot of people didn't have cable boxes. In New York, a few people did. So I started getting recognized on the street earlier in New York than anywhere else. But, you know, it was just having to, like, I don't know. The first time I got recognized, I remember being so embarrassed, like, oh, you watch Nickelodeon? Like, unless it's a game show, like, why are you watching Nickelodeon?

• 19:01Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 19:02Speaker 03

  But, um, but yeah, and then the, the, the female aspect of it all, too, to be, and the writers on our show went on to do, I mean, like, Paul Lieberstein went on to do The Office, and Alexey Young went on to run Friends, and we had some amazing writers that I think you've worked alongside as well, and, um, and just really had some powerhouse writing behind it. So it just, it was kind of like, in a, I know, in a way, a lot like Blossom, right? It was like five characters, just like stories, just

• 19:30Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 19:31Speaker 03

  Stories, you know? No kind of pranks and stuff happening, just sort of like, really...

• 19:36Mayim Bialik?

  Well, and it was also, it was the beginning of kind of like, um, you know, a shift for Nickelodeon, because it really hadn't been, you know, known predominantly as a, as a show for like, or as a network for sort of like scripted material and narrative like that. So it was very, very unusual. Um, what was your, what was your life like at that time? Were you still going back to school in between filming? Like, did you have a schedule? Like, our schedule was basically like a school year, you know? We filmed kind of like August to April, or August to May. Was, was it the same for Nickelodeon? And how did you handle school at that time?

• 20:08Speaker 03

  We kind of did, we did like half seasons, sort of the way the streamers do now. We did like 13 episodes a season. Um, so we almost did like, yeah, like a half a season, right? Without the backend order, really. So we would kind of disappear, I would disappear to Orlando for four months at a time, um, get tutored while I was down there, and then go back to New York and go back to school. So it was tricky. I mean, I was in ninth grade, and I was a really good student. I love, I love learning. I'm still like a lifelong learner. And, uh, and so I'm, I'm constantly kind of chasing what I missed in high school now, because I was this great student. I was gonna learn all these languages in 10th grade and all this stuff, but then the show happened, and, um, I was supposed to finish all my New York sequences in 10th grade, you know? I was like so excited to like, push through my academics. And, um, and then I get the show, and I'm being tutored

• 20:54Speaker 03

  Mondays, I don't know if you guys did the same thing, but like Mondays is math, six hours in math on Monday.

• 20:58Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, no.

• 20:59Speaker 03

  And then you have to wait till next Monday to do math again, and French on Tuesdays, and science on Wednesdays. So it was like... Nothing retaining, nothing sticking, just kind of pushing through. And so I ended up changing schools. I was in public school until ninth grade. In 10th grade, I went to professional children's school with like Sarah Michelle Gellar and Tara Reid and Jerry O'Connell. And so tried that. That didn't work for me. Then for 11th to 12th, I did what now I guess we would call homeschooling.

• 21:24Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 21:25Speaker 03

  Tutoring, basically.

• 21:26Mayim Bialik?

  Right. And so you kind of went then, you went to sort of like your second exploration of you as like the centerpiece, you know, of a television kind of identity with Sabrina, which a lot of people, you know, I think it depends what, what age you are, you know, kind of like what your jam was, but,

• 21:49Mayim Bialik?

  you know, I, I knew you from, from both, but a lot of people, you know, do have more, you know, kind of knowledge with Sabrina. How did that come about after Clarissa? Because also like what's really cool is that, like they're both you, but there's also like a real fun distinctiveness to, you know, as you got older and, you know, obviously Sabrina had, you know, a very different flavor to it. It was what we would now call high concept.

• 22:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, and a hybrid. Interestingly enough, Clarissa, so Clarissa ended and my mom being my manager for many years, was getting all these offers for me to play really risque, like I was auditioning for like Lolita and like all these things. And my mom was like, I don't think after Nickelodeon, that's what you should be doing. She knew branding before branding, right? She was like the original momager, I feel like in a way. Like she was like, let's, we need to find something family friendly or create something family friendly. And someone handed her a comic book, an Archie comic on a playground with my, at my sibling's school. And they said, this would be a great project for Melissa. It's Sabrina's huge witch, one of the Archie comics. So she brought it to Showtime. Actually, she brought it to Viacom because Clarissa was on Viacom. She had, we had a connection there. She brings it to them. She goes, we should make this movie. We make the Showtime movie.

• 22:57Speaker 03

  She cuts it together. She goes, this should be a series. They go, well, we'll see, we'll see. She cuts it together in like a trailer. She sells the series to three different networks and the next thing you know, I'm 20 years old playing a teenager again.

• 23:11Mayim Bialik?

  And how long did Sabrina run?

• 23:13Speaker 03

  It was seven seasons.

• 23:15Mayim Bialik?

  Wow.

• 23:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:17Mayim Bialik?

  And so that was kind of like, that was really your, your teen years into young adulthood, where essentially you lived on television.

• 23:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, by the time I'm 20 and I moved to LA, I, you know, with the money I made on my first episode, I bought myself a BMW. And then I, by the time I finished my first season, I bought my first house. And I was like, now an adult. And what was great was not having to go to school. You can be like, not having to go to school and get to work and like, and then afterwards go out dancing. And like, I was like, this is awesome. We can go shoot pool after work. I don't have to go home and study my lines for tomorrow. Or like, because Sabrina also was the first time, Clarissa, I had massive monologues. And I would start memorizing those on Sunday to shoot on Thursday. Because I mean, I have three or four an episode and they'd be pages long and I'd have to be direct to camera. There was no cutting, there was

• 24:05Speaker 03

  no editing. So I had to learn those. And those were a bitch, man. And then school, and then the, you know, senior year with the SATs and college applications and all that stuff. It was just too much. So when I got Sabrina, and I was like, I have dialogue scenes where I can bounce off other people. I like, you can cue me into what my next line is. And I'm only doing two pages at a time. This is awesome. So I loved that life. And I made some of the best friends in my life and had such fun with that. And it is, like you said, it's like, that show is international. That show has made people happy across the board for decades now. And I couldn't be prouder of it. Because anywhere I go in the world, I hear people say, I learned English from your show. I became a scientist because Beth Broderick played a scientist. Or I got into fashion because of, you know,

• 24:50Speaker 03

  like, people, or I was in the hospital for a long time, you know, recovering from surgery or something. And they'll say that that was like their, their happy place. And so it's just such a nice thing to hear when we hear that, right? It's like,

• 25:03Mayim Bialik?

  Sure.

• 25:04Speaker 03

  That's why we do it.

• 25:05Mayim Bialik?

  Well, and, and also, there was a brief period kind of between these two shows where you did go to college.

• 25:12Speaker 03

  I tried.

• 25:13Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah. And I'm kind of curious, like, did it, did it suit you? Or were you kind of like, I want to try this, but it's not for me? Like, how did that work out?

• 25:21Speaker 03

  I'm like, the 80 year old that's going to throw my cap in the, I just saw like, NYU just had their graduation. I'm like, I need to do that someday. I applied to NYU. It was the only college I knew about. I knew about one in Florida because I was down there, but I really didn't know much about college. I was the oldest in my family. My parents hadn't gone to college. So I, you know, I saw an NYU shuttle go by one day, like a trolley, and I was like, that's where I should go. That looks fun. I want to get on that shuttle. Meanwhile, I've never been on the trolley. But I was like, I should go to NYU. So I applied to NYU. I didn't think my grades were good enough to get in. I tricked my way in by getting into Tisch as an actor and then immediately transferring to the Gallatin Program, individual I study. And I tried for like seven years to graduate, but I was doing Sabrina in LA at the same time,

• 26:05Speaker 03

  and I couldn't quite, I couldn't get the credits. I went on a broad trip one summer to try to get some credits, and I did an internship in directing and did all these things to try to get the credits, but never quite made it there. So now I've got to start again, and someday.

• 26:19Mayim Bialik?

  Do you, it's, it's interesting. I mean, you have, you've, you've gone on to do, you know, so many incredible things, including directing, and you, you did an episode of Young Sheldon, which is, you know, so awesome. Do you still feel a desire to, to like have that as a benchmark?

• 26:37Speaker 03

  It's something I never finished, and like I need to go finish it, right? Like I need to have that moment. It feels like a rite of passage I missed. I missed so many. I never had my own prom. I never had a real graduation in high school. They threw me one on the set. But there's so many things I missed, and I'm like, that is not something I'm going to, like, it's something I can still do, you know, so it's still out there. I just recently took a course at Belmont. I moved to Nashville, so I took a course at Belmont on screenwriting. And a few years ago, I took a course on Italian. I wanted like photography. I'm like, I'm gonna figure this out somehow. I'm gonna, when my kids are out of the house, I have one going to college next year, my first one. So I'm like, once they're out of the house, maybe I'll go back to college. But yeah, I do want to, I mean, and like you said, I direct a lot now. It wasn't as easy when,

• 27:19Speaker 03

  I started directing in maybe 2000. I started on Sabrina. I did some other shows for Nickelodeon and Disney, and then it was always sort of a PR stunt. But then I started directing The Goldbergs. And then Adam Goldberg recommended me to the, to the boys at Sheldon and the Steves. And, and they just, they, they took, I mean, we all had a Nickelodeon history as well. Me and the Steves at Young Sheldon. So I was, I directed a bunch of Young Sheldon, so we have that connection as well, like.

• 27:48Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah. And, and tell me, you know, I think a lot of people.

• 27:53Mayim Bialik?

  You know, a lot of people may know that there are, obviously, directors of shows, but can you talk a little bit about sort of what's the skill set that you drew on, or that you draw on to direct that kind of format?

• 28:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, oh, well, that's the thing, right? I jump back and forth between multicam and single cam. And so like Goldberg's and Young Sheldon are a single cam. And it's interesting, well, they have two cameras, but we shoot it like a, you know, shot as if it's a single cam. So

• 28:22Mayim Bialik?

  It's shot like a little movie, is what that means.

• 28:24Speaker 03

  It's a little bit more theatrical, yeah. It has that sort of more cinematic feel to it, right? And for me, so I was a big fan of Gary Marshall, and I was lucky enough to spend a little time with him, where he mentored me a little, and basically just said that the fundamental, like, the basic of directing is, tell the story. Just make sure you tell the story, right? So I always go back to that, really, you know, that we're here to tell a story. What's going to tell the story the best? Like, you know, angles, character development, all those things. So, and I think with Young Sheldon, there is a very specific humor to it. So bringing that kind of, I think the Steves and I have this, especially with Melora, like, we have like this shorthand, kind of, we sort of see things similarly.

• 29:09Speaker 03

  He trusted me, because I think he saw, pretty early on, that we had a similar eye, especially for the comedy part of it. So, you know, I think winning his trust was one of the biggest moments in my life. But I think that, basically, having a rapport with the actors, and then working well with the crew, and trusting them that this is their show, like, you're going to go on the show like that, especially something like, I think it was Third Season, you're not going to find a new corner to fill in, right? You're not going to talk to the actors about their character, because they know their character better than you do. So, you know, it's really about bringing in energy, and I like to be efficient. Like, that's how I started directing, was to be efficient. On Sabrina, it was such a difficult show, it was a hybrid. So we would rehearse for two days, film for three, and we shot it like a single cam, but

• 29:54Speaker 03

  it was three-camera film. So it was shot like a multi, but ended up looking like a single. So it was, it was a little tricky, and we'd have these veteran directors come on, and go, I don't understand what to do with the cat. What do we do with the special effects? Our special effects guy went off to do Game of Thrones, and, you know, like, it was a complicated show. We all learned so much on that show.

• 30:15Mayim Bialik?

  I also want to mention, you've been dubbed the Queen of Christmas.

• 30:20Mayim Bialik?

  You have, you have a production company, um, which I also think it's adorable that like all your things that you create have the spelling heart, like heartbreak films, but like it's spelled like Melissa Joan Hart.

• 30:33Speaker 03

  It's just such a perfect last name for so many things.

• 30:34Mayim Bialik?

  It's like a great last name. Um, so you, you have a, a production banner, as they call it. What do you like about sort of the Lifetime experience as, as an actor and as a producer?

• 30:48Speaker 03

  They've been great to me over the last like decade, I guess. Um, I've been lucky enough to have a Christmas movie on almost every year, whether I directed it or I starred in it. And they have just been so great to me. And what I love about them is while the Christmas movie, you know, it, it sort of fits in a certain box, right? It's gotta have a happy ending. There's very little conflict, except in romance. And you know, there's, there's certain, and then there's certain elements that have to, it has to be sprinkled in, you know, snow and, and, and nothing but green and red, right? Like nothing but green and red. So, um, it just was such a fun way to tell stories and try to keep trying to find something new. But what I love about Lifetime is they let me be a little bit funny. They're okay with sometimes not a perfectly happy ending, like not getting the girl and guy

• 31:33Speaker 03

  together. We've done two or three movies now, and I think we're about to do another one where they don't get together at the end, which that's a rare thing. So I like just playing around with the format a little bit.

• 31:42Mayim Bialik?

  I always knew that there were like these people who liked Christmas movies, but I feel like it's become so much, you know, so much bigger of a phenomenon. And like there's such a, there's such a great audience for it. I mean, like people.

• 31:57Speaker 03

  It's become a genre of its own.

• 31:58Mayim Bialik?

  Right. It's become a total genre. And like it's become, you know, it's become like a real kind of identity point, you know, for the holidays, like these kinds of movies.

• 32:07Speaker 03

  And it's only getting bigger strangely because everyone's starting to jump into it.

• 32:11Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah. Do you, is this something you, you like to continue doing? Like, is this sort of like, you can imagine this being sort of your, your annual commitment, like sort of to the Christmas season?

• 32:21Speaker 03

  Um, that's the way it's been. I don't think it's going to continue that way necessarily for me. Um, I think that there'll be those opportunities, but I'd like to do, I'd like to do a little bit more outside the box with it, I think. Um, but it is a really fun, you know, the wonderful thing about them, because it is puzzling, right? Like, I was like, why are these things so popular? At first I was like, this is where careers go to die. I don't want to be a part of it. And then it started, it's very lucrative. It's very like, It's just fun. It's happy. Like you go to these Christmas cons. I'm going to one in Kansas City in a few weeks and it's like, it's just a happy, joyful.

• 32:57Mayim Bialik?

  What's a Christmas con?

• 32:58Speaker 03

  I know they're doing these, uh, they do one in Jersey and now they're doing one in Kansas City in July.

• 33:03Mayim Bialik?

  Do they serve clams?

• 33:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, they serve clams. No.

• 33:07Mayim Bialik?

  No, but it's like, hold on. I, again, like, I'm Jewish. I'm all the things that don't mix with some of the things we're talking about. So what, what happens at a Christmas con? It's like all things Christmas?

• 33:16Speaker 03

  It's like, well, it's mainly celebrities and then there'll be booths. So there'll be like someone that makes cookies and a hot cocoa thing and like, you know, but it's women that show up in their sweat, matching sweaters with their mom or their.

• 33:26Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah. Does Santa come?

• 33:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's Santa there.

• 33:30Mayim Bialik?

  Santa comes?

• 33:32Speaker 03

  And all the like stars of all the different Christmas movies, like Lacey Shabert's always there.

• 33:35Mayim Bialik?

  This is amazing. I need to go to one of these just to see what happens. That feels like something we should do.

• 33:41Speaker 03

  Did you do 90's con?

• 33:42Mayim Bialik?

  I did not do 90's con. I knew it was happening, but I'm more interested in Christmas con.

• 33:47Speaker 03

  I know, but I think you need to go to a 90's con.

• 33:49Mayim Bialik?

  Also, I grew up in Los Angeles. My parents are New Yorkers, but like I grew up in LA, so it never snowed, like nothing Christmas like ever happened. And also I'm Jewish, but still, there would be these like Christmas stores where you would like see, and then they started popping up more and more. Like I love a Christmas store. I'd never had a tree in my life. I have no desire to have one, but there's, there's, there's some magical quality to sort of like the culture surrounding Christmas. I'm very fascinated by this.

• 34:15Speaker 03

  It becomes a whole thing, right? It's kind of taken over. I'm kind of, I'm a little bit pissed off at Christmas in general, just because it's like so excessive. I'm like, the cards and the decorating and the.

• 34:25Mayim Bialik?

  Don't be angry at Christmas. You're the queen of Christmas. You can't be angry at Christmas.

• 34:29Speaker 03

  No, don't tell anybody, just between us, okay?

• 34:31Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, honestly, when the movie Elf came out, I was like, this is the greatest Christmas movie that will ever be made. I mean, I do love like Miracle on 34th Street, 42nd Street, 86th Street. Which street?

• 34:42Speaker 03

  34th.

• 34:43Mayim Bialik?

  34th Street. Um, I mean, I love a Christmas movie, but like when Elf came out, I was like, I get it. Like I'll watch that every year.

• 34:50Speaker 03

  I think that, um, the thing about, the thing that people love about those movies is it's predictable. I think the, I think the holidays, everyone pretends it's, you know, it's supposed to be about hope and. And love and family and stuff, but it's it ends up being so much about commercialism. So I think it's nice for people to just kind of watch something that's predictable that's, you know, I think we forget a lot about the people that lose people or that don't have someone at the holidays, have a breakup, have a divorce, whatever, you know? And it's tough times. Sometimes people can't afford to throw the kind of Christmas they want to have and that kind of thing. So watching these movies, I think, just gives people a happy place to go to in a season.

• 35:22Mayim Bialik?

  You know, I actually, I've never heard that kind of explanation. And I think that's very astute because I think also it's not like we're watching it because that's what life is like. We're watching it because that's not always what life is like. And we know that, like, it feels like a real acknowledgement of like, there are ways to show, you know, a different side of happiness. Like, I think that's really,

• 35:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like an escapism for a minute.

• 35:46Mayim Bialik?

  Um, okay, I'm asking you one more Christmas question and then we'll move on, I promise. What, what are, what is your life like for Christmas? Like, are you one of these people? Like, I'm just gonna give an example. Are you one of these people who has like the green and red, you know, like Tupperware containers with all like the wrapping things? And are your ornaments like classified? Like, these are the ones that are white? And like, are you do this? Are you this lady?

• 36:09Speaker 03

  I do all of that. I'm, okay, I'm very organized, first of all.

• 36:12Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, that's the only way to be. If you like Christmas, you have to be organized around it.

• 36:16Speaker 03

  It's a lot. It's a lot. Why, I'm not kidding. Like, it is a lot. And so you have, if you're not organized with, are you putting up the travel ornaments this year?

• 36:23Mayim Bialik?

  Hundred percent.

• 36:25Speaker 03

  Or the kids ornaments of the macaroni crap? Or the, like, what are we putting on the tree this year? Because we can't put it all up there. So you have to be organized, or it's a mess.

• 36:33Mayim Bialik?

  So when do you start preparing for Christmas? Before Thanksgiving?

• 36:37Speaker 03

  Nowadays, yeah.

• 36:38Mayim Bialik?

  Like, oh, you're like today, like this summer?

• 36:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, there might still be a tree. No, I'm just kidding. No, there's not.

• 36:44Mayim Bialik?

  But you, you prepare in advance?

• 36:46Speaker 03

  Every railing, every window has a wreath. Every, I mean, my husband goes off. Every railing has a garland, every, like,

• 36:53Mayim Bialik?

  Is there Santa Claus toilet paper?

• 36:56Speaker 03

  We don't wipe our butts with Santa Claus, but, but you're, but you're thinking like, every bathroom is decorated. Yes.

• 37:01Mayim Bialik?

  That's amazing.

• 37:01Speaker 03

  I have little reindeer in the bathrooms. Yes. Towels, the towels are hanging with all the different, all the towels in the house get changed to Christmas towels.

• 37:10Mayim Bialik?

  Do you all wear matching Christmas BJs? Is that your holiday card?

• 37:15Speaker 03

  No, it's, we usually do a little more formal. We tried that one year.

• 37:20Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, more for, wait, we do like a formal Christmas card?

• 37:23Speaker 03

  A formal Christmas card, because it's like our family photo for the year. And it's like, the only way I feel like I can mark how everybody grows. It's the only time my, my boys will actually hold still.

• 37:30Mayim Bialik?

  Do you have pets?

• 37:32Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 37:32Mayim Bialik?

  Do they dress up for Christmas?

• 37:34Speaker 03

  They do.

• 37:35Mayim Bialik?

  What do they wear? Do you make them look like reindeer?

• 37:38Speaker 03

  They just wear like red and green collars or something.

• 37:40Mayim Bialik?

  Well, step it up, Melissa.

• 37:43Speaker 03

  I'll send you a picture.

• 37:45Mayim Bialik?

  I want them to be reindeer. I want you to have dasher and dancer, donner, and I don't know their names.

• 37:51Speaker 03

  All of them, all of them.

• 37:53Mayim Bialik?

  Um, okay, this is fascinating to me.

• 37:55Speaker 03

  No, it's not. It's, uh, it's slightly embarrassing. It is.

• 37:58Mayim Bialik?

  Um, also, just to give it a little bit of reference, you were raised Presbyterian, is that correct?

• 38:03Speaker 03

  I was raised Catholic.

• 38:04Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, Catholic. Oh, Catholic. Oh, you're Presbyterian now?

• 38:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:08Mayim Bialik?

  Those are different things.

• 38:10Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, it depends on who you're talking to. As a Catholic, I didn't think so, but now, living in the South and going to a Baptist church, people do think Catholic is very, yeah.

• 38:20Mayim Bialik?

  Well, so, but like, there's, forgive me, there's Catholic and then there's Protestant, that's what they're called.

• 38:25Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 38:26Mayim Bialik?

  That's the other ones.

• 38:27Speaker 03

  The umbrella of Protestant, yeah.

• 38:28Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, got it. So, uh, okay, well, now I need to ask this. Is Catholic Christmas different than Presbyterian Christmas?

• 38:34Speaker 03

  No, only in the church service, really.

• 38:37Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, but you go to church on Christmas, like you're that person. It's not just like, let's have a tree. It's like, it's a religious holiday.

• 38:42Speaker 03

  And every Advent, Advent is every Sunday, four weeks leading up to Christmas. So every Sunday leading up to it, and you light a candle every night. In a, in a lot of the ways, like you would a menorah, we light a candle every night.

• 38:53Mayim Bialik?

  What's Advent for?

• 38:54Speaker 03

  Advent is to count down the days. And each candle is a different representation of, um, uh, one's a love candle, one's a hope candle, one's a, one, seen in Catholicism.

• 39:04Mayim Bialik?

  Is there an anxiety candle? Because that's the only thing that would remind me of a menorah.

• 39:08Speaker 03

  Maybe the one in the middle.

• 39:10Mayim Bialik?

  Um, wait, like Seventh Day Adventists, that's what they're called.

• 39:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, so the Advent Advent is like, so you get an Advent calendar when you get your chocolates.

• 39:18Mayim Bialik?

  That's right. They have them for pets. I've seen them in the pet store.

• 39:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, so you have an Advent calendar and you'll open every day you would open one and get a chocolate out and that counts down to Christmas.

• 39:27Mayim Bialik?

  I see. Got it. Okay, but um, some people celebrate like, I knew the song, The 12 Days of Christmas. Is that a thing?

• 39:34Speaker 03

  I don't know what that is. I, no, it's not a thing anymore.

• 39:37Mayim Bialik?

  Is it Catholics? They celebrate into January sometimes?

• 39:41Speaker 03

  Oh, well, that's because of the three kings. The three kings come like that.

• 39:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, the Three Kings Day is like January 3rd or 6th.

• 39:48Mayim Bialik?

  Were they Jewish too?

• 39:50Speaker 03

  Of course, they were. Jesus was Jewish.

• 39:51Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, got it. So the kings, that's what I meant in terms of too.

• 39:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:55Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, I need to learn more things. Um, okay, sorry. This is just like Melissa Joan Hart teaches my I'm about clams and Christmas.

• 40:03Speaker 03

  And Christmas. I love it.

• 40:05Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, let's get back to non-Christmas things, although I do appreciate the education. Tell me a little bit about working with Joey Lawrence, because.

• 40:14Speaker 03

  Why don't you tell me about working with Joey Lawrence first?

• 40:16Mayim Bialik?

  I worked with Joey Lawrence. Let's say I was 14 to 19 and he was whatever, a year younger than me. And then he went on to do the show with his brothers and then, you know, somewhere in the ether, like I went to college, I had two kids, I went to grad school and somewhere in there, the two of you did Melissa and Joey. Um, how did that come about? You had obviously vaguely known each other or did you design this together?

• 40:41Speaker 03

  Sort of. So we, um, we knew each other like since we were like six. We've been on a lot. Actually, he's on my podcast coming up and we tell the story about like how we met when we were young and stuff. But our moms knew each other from the audition waiting room and stuff. So his youngest brother, Andy, is supposedly a product of seeing one of my siblings holding the baby and being like, all right, I need another one. And then she went home and got pregnant with Andy.

• 41:00Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, my gosh, that's so funny.

• 41:02Speaker 03

  Supposedly that's, that's how Andy came to be. But, um, anyway, uh, we ended up in LA. I'd done Sabrina. We had never worked together. We'd run into each other numerous times over the years. And then I had to do a, uh, I, oh, I'd done a Christmas movie. I'd done Holiday in Handcuffs with Mario Lopez.

• 41:18Mayim Bialik?

  Holiday in Handcuffs?

• 41:20Speaker 03

  Holiday in Handcuffs. I know. Try go to, go to Canada and get a work permit for that one. They don't really want you in.

• 41:25Mayim Bialik?

  I'm assuming this has something to do with like. Being arrested?

• 41:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, I kidnap him and make him pretend to be my... It's...

• 41:33Mayim Bialik?

  That's a little kinky, Melissa Donhardt. That's a little kinky.

• 41:36Speaker 03

  It's really funny, and it's still one of my favorite projects I've ever worked on because it's so ridiculous. But it kind of launched this TV genre of Christmas movies because it was so pop... I think it's still today, like, one of the most popular Christmas movies on television.

• 41:48Mayim Bialik?

  Wow.

• 41:49Speaker 03

  Not like, you know, Home Alone and the big Christmas theatrical releases, like, as far as television goes. But Holiday in Handcuffs was a big success, and it was me and Mario, and Mario had been on Dance with Stars. So I had to go do another movie for them, and it was called My Fake Fiance. I was producing it. And my mother and I, producing it with Heartbreak Films, we were like, well, who should we get to play the guy? You know, we did so well with Mario. Who else has been on Dance with Stars that we haven't worked with in a while? And I was like, oh, my God, Joey, we need to have Joey.

• 42:13Mayim Bialik?

  Wow.

• 42:14Speaker 03

  So Joey and I did this movie, Fake Fiance. And from that, we just... The chemistry between us and that the network loved, we were like, let's create a show around this. Around two people that need each other but don't like each other.

• 42:26Mayim Bialik?

  Got it.

• 42:26Speaker 03

  And so we did this really funny... Like, Holiday in Handcuffs is probably my favorite movie I've ever been in. And then Melissa and Joey's my favorite TV show. It's like, I picked a child, and that was my favorite, and it's Melissa and Joey. Because it's just ridiculously funny. And it's stupid funny. And I get to play this very flawed character. I'm like this drunk lush who takes in her sister's kids. She's a politician, too. She has to take in her... Her sister gets arrested for fraud, and she has to take in her sister's teenage kids and raise them. And Joey shows up at my door and ends up being my Manny. And so we hate each other, but we need each other. And a lot of sexual tension and stuff like that. But really, it's just a lot of kind of jabs, quick jabs at each other and just ridiculousness.

• 43:08Speaker 03

  Like, neither of us know how to be parents, and we're just failing at every turn.

• 43:13Mayim Bialik?

  I'm getting, like, a little bit Who's the Boss vibes. I remember people would mention... Well, yeah, because I remembered people would mention that. It was, you know... I mean, I find you more compelling as a lead character than the way they wrote Judith Light. But that's just me. It's a different time.

• 43:27Speaker 03

  Well, that's something I refused to when we were... Because we did develop the show, I was lucky that... And I have some friends that have played those characters of the, like, you know, the wife that stands there and goes, mm-mm, mm-mm. And I was like, I don't want to be that. And that's what I felt like when you kind of... You kind of talked about, like, Clarissa and Sabrina and how different they were. Clarissa felt funky, cool, non-performist, edgy, right? Like... Kick ass, fearless, all that. And then I went and did Sabrina and I just didn't really identify with her. I know a lot of people did and, you know, no disrespect to Sabrina at all, but I didn't identify with the character that's, that's like, ooh, don't look at me. I want to hide in the corner because that wasn't me. I was the, the loud, talkative, I want a million friends in the room. Let's go to a party, let's do stuff.

• 44:09Speaker 03

  And Sabrina was a little bit more reserved, a little bit more shy, a little, you know, um, a little bit like wants to be the wallflower over the center of attention. And I just didn't really get her necessarily. So when I went to do Melissa and Joey and I'm playing Mel, I could just be ridiculous. It was very Lucy, right? So I got to just kind of be larger than life with that, which was really fun.

• 44:31Mayim Bialik?

  That is fun. And, um, I do want to ask something, you know, the thing that like teen actors are always asked when they grow up. Um, you know, especially because you do describe yourself as like an outgoing person and, you know, liking to be around people and parties. You did not, you know, experience any public or private that you have spoken about, you know, kind of brushes with a lot of the things that plague, you know, humans in general, not just celebrities, but, um, but I feel like because you are such kind of like a positive role model, I mean, I consider you, you know, this like really positive and inspiring, you know, powerful, smart, funny, awesome woman. I wonder if you would speak a little bit, you know, sort of about, um, you know, those

• 45:15Mayim Bialik?

  things were around us, you know, even though I think you probably grew up similarly to the way Joey and Jenna and I did on a clean set. You know, we grew up on a very clean set and Don Rio, our showrunner, um, kept a very clean and healthy environment. I mean, I'm assuming it was similar for you, especially in the Nickelodeon world, but that stuff was around. Um, and I'm wondering what you credit, like, I don't know if you're, you know, if you were a person of faith and that kind of kept you on a specific path, um, or if it was, you know, kind of the guidance of your mom, like what sort of guided you?

• 45:46Speaker 03

  You know, it's interesting. Um, I've tried to give that a lot of thought and like dig into it all. And I realized like on Clarissa, I actually have a picture. I'll, I'll have to post this at some point. Um, two pictures, I just found them, they're actual photographs, right? So I had to like take a picture of the picture. The crew on Clarissa, so I was in Orlando by myself. My mom wasn't on set with me and stuff. So I wasn't, as much as I was protected as a child and in the theater world and whatnot, with my mom being right there. Now I'm in Orlando and I'm 13, 14, and I'm kind of on my own. I have guardians and stuff. But the thing is, we were working so hard. I don't think I had time to do anything. The crew would go out Friday nights and they would take me with them to a bar. And I wasn't allowed to drink. No one would allow me to.

• 46:28Speaker 03

  No matter how mad I got, I kicked one guy in the shins with my, Sean, I had a crush on him. I kicked him in the shins with my combat boots and was like, get me a beer. And he's like, no, I'm not getting you a beer because I want to keep my job. And I'm so thankful for that now, right? Like, as mad as I got, like, give me a beer. They would be like, no, I'm not. And I still have some really, really good friends, like my best friends. My oldest son's godparents are the executive producer's assistant and the wardrobe supervisor from Clarissa. So they're still my best friends. And they looked out for me. And they became like a family and they surrounded me and they protected me. And also, I think because there was something about me being the lead where I felt like I was responsible, the same way I'm the oldest of eight kids and I feel responsible.

• 47:10Speaker 03

  I have a very serious sense of responsibility and I don't want to disappoint anybody. So I have to memorize those monologues. I have to, you know, show up on set or so and so doesn't get to go home to their child for their, you know, big polo match or whatever. Like, I realize this huge weight that's on my shoulders of like, if you don't show up on time and you don't know your lines and you make everyone wait, that's not only embarrassing, that's like, super rude, you're just selfish. Like, so I didn't want to be that person. So I think that there was this sense of responsibility that was just infused in me at a young age of doing the right thing and being responsible for myself. And so that carried from Clarissa to Sabrina. And then at Sabrina, I had my mom to protect me.

• 47:54Speaker 03

  Like, all the Me Too movement stuff, of course, when that all happened, everyone's asking me, what's my story? My mom was always right there with me. My mom has a few Me Too movement stories because she ended up, you know, getting, having meetings with producers that kind of could have gone in bad directions. But really, my mom is there the whole time. And again, I'm the lead of the show. And as you know, as the lead of a show, you like, set a tone and... It was if I hit my marks and I say my lines and I show up on time, everyone else should too, right? Like if I start to slip, everyone else could, they could, they might slip. So, and I'm not saying that's necessarily always true with everybody, but I, I felt that sense of responsibility. Like I've got to set an example. I've got to be, you know, they're, they're looking at me. I'm the one on camera. I'm the one that's got to say the lines. I'm the one that's got to do the work.

• 48:39Speaker 03

  Once the cameras are rolling, everyone else is of course working behind the scenes, but um, so you know, I just felt that sense of responsibility probably kept me on a really good track. I mean, I'm not saying I didn't have some rebellious moments because around I had just a, you know, kind of an arrested development as far as it delayed bad behavior, which was probably in my early twenties, 22, 24, where I did, you know, go out and party, but I would party on hiatus weeks, you know, I would dabble with mushrooms when I was on a trip to Utah and the walking through the woods or do ecstasy when I was in Ibiza or, you know, like, I was careful about where, when, how am I recovering? How am I getting home? You know, I would go out and have a gin and tonic every night and go dancing and show up tired on set. That was about as irresponsible as I got.

• 49:23Mayim Bialik?

  I'm curious, um, I mean, I think everyone feels happy that, you know, you experienced some, you know, some, some, I guess like release of that pressure because it is a lot of pressure. And I think like that's, you know, when I hear about you talk about that responsibility, like part of that is like in the back of my head, I'm like, oh, is she straight edge? Then I was like, oh no, she's not straight edge. Like she, you know, had a thing. Oh, for, for people who might be young, or maybe that wasn't a term. Straight edge is a term for someone who, you know, kind of like proudly and confidently abstains, you know, like as a, as a movement. You know, they're

• 50:00Speaker 03

  It's coming back around, I think, because my son is Yeah, my son is sort of straight edge in a way. Yeah. Like the virginity rocks thing and like that kind of stuff. So, I mean, it wasn't necessarily, I always thought a straight edge more as drug as an alcohol. I don't know if it had a sex component to it.

• 50:16Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, I think that usually was the other thing that happened, but yeah, we, we thought of it more, you know, um, yeah, we thought of it more sort of in terms of drugs and alcohol. I wasn't asking about sex. I mean, I can, but I wasn't planning on it. No, but my, my, my question, sorry. My question was also, um, did that sense of responsibility ever feel like a burden? Like, did it ever feel heavy?

• 50:39Speaker 03

  I don't think so because I'm also really good at, like I said, like being social and, and, and having that relate, having relationships. Um, whether it was, you know, I, I always had a boyfriend, long-term boyfriends. I was very much like serial monogamous. Or, um, having, uh, uh, parties, uh, just super social. I was, uh, still to this day, I'm like, when are we meeting for book club? When are we going to see the lights at the, you know, at the show around the corner? When are we going to the old movie theater? When are we, you know, like, I just love to plan my social time. So I really do live by the work hard, play hard, and I add a third in there, sleep hard. I'm a really good sleeper. I'm very talented at sleeping. I think that's just as important.

• 51:17Mayim Bialik?

  Possibly the most important. Um, I wanted to touch on something that's, you know, kind of been a through line. Um, you know, you mentioned your mom was so young, you know, when she had you. Um, and, you know, you were, you've kind of, you've worked with her essentially your whole life. And, um, you know, I, I wonder sort of, was there a time when you felt like, I don't want that? Or has it always felt pretty copacetic?

• 51:45Speaker 03

  Well, you know, I, I did definitely go through a period, especially when Sabrina was ending. There was like a lot of pressure on us to figure out the next thing. Um, you know, if we don't find something right away in this industry, you can really fall off. And so, you know, so it's, I felt that pressure and wasn't sure that we should be working together. Cause, um, she, I was getting married and she was mad at me for getting married, I think. Because she never hated any of my other boyfriends, but when I was getting married, I, she was losing her, basically she called me her travel buddy. She was losing her travel buddy. And I've been her best friend her whole life. So like, or my whole life. So I feel like, you know, when I was starting, as, as Sabrina's ending and I'm getting married, um, there was a little bit of tension between us. And, uh, you know, so, I mean, I think as, as would happen in any mother-daughter relationship, whether you're working together or not.

• 52:30Speaker 03

  But I came to realize in my like late twenties, like who do you trust more than your mom? If you're gonna have a production partner, who do you trust more than your mom? In, in most cases, like, right? That's gonna look out for you, protect you, have your best interests, tell you the truth, that kind of thing. And you're not really gonna, there's not that fear of, um, of kind of a big divide. So, I mean, I'm, for, for me, it, it worked out really well that we just trust each other. We're honest and open with each other and we have that relationship. It took a, there was a, there were growing periods in there where it was like, oh, I don't want to say anything to her, or my agents don't want to say anything, or she didn't want to say something, you know, hurting feelings. But now we realize it's just, we, we keep it separate, business and family.

• 53:09Mayim Bialik?

  What's your relationship like with your dad? Is he still back east?

• 53:13Speaker 03

  He is, yeah. Now he's breeding oysters with my sister and they also grow algae. They have this whole algae farm.

• 53:19Mayim Bialik?

  Wow.

• 53:19Speaker 03

  It's, you would, you would love this. It's like, I don't even understand it.

• 53:22Mayim Bialik?

  I can eat algae. That's something I can eat.

• 53:25Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah? Well, that's what they're doing. They're actually right now like petitioning. Yeah, they're petitioning New York to put more algae farms in and like, start growing algae at a high level to try to clean the oceans and

• 53:35Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 53:36Speaker 03

  Trying to do a whole thing with, with algae. Like it's, it's the future. But he is a really, really great guy.

• 53:43Mayim Bialik?

  It's awesome. And just before I let you go, um, talk a little bit about your podcast and sort of how that fits into life now. I mean, I know you're, you're obviously a busy person and you're a mom and it sounds like a very active mom. But this podcast sounds like a lot of fun. Like, talk about why you wanted to do it.

• 54:00Speaker 03

  You know, I'm always trying to find something that I can do locally. So I don't always have to leave. And I moved to Nashville two and a half years ago. And everybody's always been like, don't you want a podcast? I'm on podcasts. I was like, I don't know what I would say in it. And I always thought it should be hard hitting politics and religion. And I was like, then I was like, you know what? Without, with the last like six years of politics and I'm like, I don't want to talk about this stuff anymore. Now I want to do fluffy, which I never wanted to do before. But what women binge, and we'd love to have you on, is bringing in people like yourself that are, you know, familiar faces and just asking you what you're into. I was actually, it kind of came about on the set of Young Sheldon. Because Annie, um, oh, not me. Yeah, Annie Potts and Jason Alexander were giving me advice on what shows I should be watching.

• 54:44Speaker 03

  Cause I was like in LA by myself for a few weeks. What should I watch? They were like, you have to watch The Great and then you have to watch this show and then you have to watch that show. And so they're giving me advice and I was like, this is awesome. Like, I love talking to people about what show should I watch? What book should I read? What, you know, that kind of thing. And during COVID, I feel like my friend group started a spreadsheet of like, hey, if you need a new podcast to listen to, or if you need this or that. So I started an Instagram page and from that it spawned into a podcast, which is just fun, because it's just, it's just fun, light talk. And, you know, we, we just did an episode about like the coronation, which we also tied into Queen Charlotte, which also tied into The Great, the new season of The Great. And we had Joey on to talk about kind of our history, but then all the things he's into. And so we're having a lot of fun with it. I really enjoy it.

• 55:26Mayim Bialik?

  Awesome. We'll do a quick rapid fire.

• 55:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, sure.

• 55:29Mayim Bialik?

  This is Rapid Fire with Melissa Joan Hart. What was your mother right about?

• 55:34Speaker 03

  Don't wear too much mascara.

• 55:36Mayim Bialik?

  What was your father right about?

• 55:39Speaker 03

  You don't need college.

• 55:41Mayim Bialik?

  Location that promotes your best mental health?

• 55:45Speaker 03

  Oof, um, the mountains.

• 55:47Mayim Bialik?

  Mantra. Do you have a mantra? Or like a saying that you like?

• 55:52Speaker 03

  I do. It's, uh, you only regret the things you don't do.

• 55:55Mayim Bialik?

  Nice. Who's been your best spiritual teacher?

• 55:59Speaker 03

  Oh, there's been so many through my life, but probably my mother.

• 56:03Mayim Bialik?

  Moment of best intuition?

• 56:05Speaker 03

  Probably when I, the moment I realized that my, that I'm my children's mother and I don't need to take anyone else's advice.

• 56:13Mayim Bialik?

  Nice. And who are you most competitive with?

• 56:16Speaker 03

  Myself mainly, but growing up, probably Sarah Michelle Gellar.

• 56:22Mayim Bialik?

  Well, I want to thank you so much for, um, coming to talk to us and, you know, I feel like there's so many times that I've wanted to ask you all of these things and I'm really appreciative that we got to do it right here and that I got all my Christmas and clam questions answered.

• 56:38Speaker 03

  You know what? I feel like you're gonna have to call me. You're gonna have to come to Nashville for my tacky sweater party. I just want you to come see how Santa pukes in my house.

• 56:47Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, I'm fascinated by the whole thing. I might take you up on that.

• 56:51Speaker 03

  Like, it's insane. And then you have to wear your tacky sweater and you can wear a Hanukkah one.

• 56:54Mayim Bialik?

  Right. I don't have a Christmas one, but I do have Hanukkah ones.

• 56:56Speaker 03

  Wear Hanukkah. We've had many Hanukkah ones show up. Come on over or just wear a Kiss one or whatever, you know? Come on over and see the whole tacky sweater.

• 57:04Mayim Bialik?

  I like things with bells. I want things to jingle jingle when I walk, so I'll aim for that. It has been so much fun having you on The Breakdown and...

• 57:11Speaker 03

  Well, I'm so honored that you asked me. I just feel like we should have run into each other so long ago and this just, it's just so nice to see you.

• 57:18Mayim Bialik?

  Awesome. And check out What Women Binge. And from our Breakdown to the one we hope you never have, we will see you next time.