628: Anthony Consigli - Digging Graves, Playing Football at Harvard, Learning From Failure, Taking Big Chances, & Growing a Business From $3 Million to $4 Billion

Go to www. LearningLeader.com https://www. LearningLeader.com for full show notes The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk Episode #625: Anthony Consigli - Digging Graves, Playing Football at Harvard, Learning From Failure, Taking Big Chances, & Growing a Business From $3 Million to $4 Billion Anthony's great-grandfather came from Italy and he was a stone mason. He had 6 sons. He gave each a trade. His grandfather had a business mind. Then WWII came. 4 brothers went and fought. His grandfather and blind uncle stayed back to run the business. He brought his son into it (Anthony's dad) he was a heavy equipment operator. And did business leadership work after it. Hard Work: Born in 1967, 2nd oldest of 5 kids. Grew up in the 1970's remembering his dad always working 2 jobs including Saturdays as a heavy equipment operator in construction with side jobs at night, his mom as a night nurse with his grandmother watching them during the day. Hard work and work ethic were drilled into them by their dad, grandfather, and uncles who all were in construction. All had stoic personalities. Anthony started working full-time in the Summer, Saturdays, and school vacations in the 7th grade when he was 12. Cleaning the mortar off bricks from demolished buildings so that they could be reused, then digging and covering graves by hand at a bunch of local cemeteries. Chopping wood and burning the rubber off electrical wire from demolished buildings so we could bring the copper to the scrap yard for cash. It was not your typical childhood but I can see now it gave me incredible life lessons at an early age that allowed me to flourish in business and be a strong leader. Anthony was a gravedigger -I was a big part of the business because it was a consistent revenue stream. Regardless of a recession, people were going to die. For that reason, his dad and grandfather never wanted to give it up. Anthony dug them by hand, year-round. When I was in high school I was in charge of laying out the graves to be dug for the recently deceased. As the Catholic Church was not known for great record keeping the coordinates were often confused. I would cut the sod, save it and then start digging; 7.5' long, 4 foot wide, about 5.5'deep. I had to take 22 wheelbarrows of dirt and wheel them up a plank onto a truck as that was the displacement from the coffin and concrete box. One night the phone rang at the house. My dad yelled at me to tell me I had buried the body in the wrong place. He may have had a few expletives in there. The next morning, I spent the day digging a new hole, moving the box to the new grave, and then filling in both graves while the family watched. I tried blaming the priest but this was a losing battle. Lessons like this taught us accountability. Own it. Do what you say you are going to do and clean up your own messes. Dump Truck Story - When I was 14 I was helping to demolish the interiors of an old convent and we were throwing all the old cinder blocks into a dump truck. My grandfather didn't have anyone available to go dump the truck so he showed me the different lever and buttons; the clutch, the PTO, and gears, and told me where to go dump the truck. I knew a little about how to drive standard but had never driven a dump truck so he told me to leave it in first gear. I drove down the Main Street of the town with a long line of traffic behind me as I was going about 5 miles per hour. I got to the dump site, got the truck in position, enacted the PTO let my foot off the clutch, and got the dump body to start raising. I remember being so proud of myself. Like I had made it as a man. All of a sudden the truck jerked up violently and before I knew what happened the truck cab was in the air and the truck was upright vertically. I had forgotten to open the tailgate so the load had shifted and flipped the truck. There were no cell phones so I walked about a mile back to the site very embarrassed to call my grandfather. Construction has no shortage of occasions to be humbled as there are so many changing dynamics at hand all the time. But at the same time, being thrown into situations like this gave me this incredible tolerance for risk. It was embarrassing but you could overcome that embarrassment. 1997 - Anthony became the CEO. $3m business at that time. Anthony pushed for bigger work. 25 people at the company then. 2024 - $3.4B 2,400 employees. What happened? One big thing is a concept/book called Raving Fans by Ken Blanchard. Construction at the time was low bid, hard knuckles, people flipping the table, throw staplers. It wasn't friendly. It started to get more professional over time. "Raving fans makes sense to me. Apply how you treat people in hospitality to construction. We work hard on client service skills. Being really professional. There is so much repeat business. That was harder than I expected it to be. Clients were rewarding us work over and over again. We were nice people to deal with. Raving fans stayed with us. We've done a lot of jobs at Harvard or hospital systems. We've earned that reputation. I came into the business during a bad recession. That bruised me. I had to tell people I couldn't pay them. I worried about where money would come from." The significance of their logo? The arch… The Arch is our logo and helps support these values. The arch is from the oldest surviving picture of our great grandfather who was a simple, hardworking, stone mason building this big stone arch. The arch denotes teamwork as you can't do it alone. It symbolizes forward progress, quality, and craft. All stuff we want to be associated with. Take Big Chances – We got through the first recession knowing we needed to be larger to be able to withstand the ups and downs of the economic cycle. We started taking some chances on some larger jobs with more demanding clients which was extremely stressful as we had no idea what we were doing. It was new territory. This is where all the humbling experiences as a kid like digging graves helped as it gave me the courage to take some risks. Failure isn't final and you can push through mistakes. Football at Harvard - Learned more on the football field than in any classroom. Discipline to a process. All the players at Harvard are there for the love of the game. I was admitted to Harvard with OK grades, but I could snap a football and block. I was surprised at the time Harvard accepted me. Looking back on it now, I should have been shocked as I was a meathead. At the same time, I think my blue-collar work history in a small family business, my being an Eagle Scout, and generally smart kid all helped. Harvard changed me in good ways despite my best efforts not to let Harvard change me in bad ways. I had this perception of blue-blood kids walking around with ascots and monocles or hippies protesting every earthly transgression on the planet. But that is not what I found. I made the best friends of my life; incredible diversity with kids from every socio-economic strata you could think of. Our team had a kid who was in an LA street gang and a kid who worked summers second shift in a limestone mill outside of Pittsburgh yet at the same time had a kid who was fifth generation Harvard who was just a nice guy. Really smart but normal kids. As much as I didn't want to change, I needed to change; be more open-minded, more curious, have better dressing and grooming habits, and manners. It meant being able to engage in meaningful conversation on heady topics; not Hulk Hogan and the WWF or how tough Chuck Norris was. I would always say that I didn't learn much in the classroom at Harvard but that's not fair. Liberal arts education is a bit under fire right now but it has served me well. I learned more through exposure to different people, other students smarter than me who were in random conversations and late-night debates. I learned more on the football field as I learned more about resilience, how to lose, and how to prepare. The liberal arts education gave me an appreciation for continued curiosity, learning, and study which may be a more important skill than any in a fast-changing world. It was the well-roundedness I needed. Leadership in Construction - Leadership means different things to different people. It can be easy in some settings. In football, all the players wanted to play. For a job site in South Boston, you walk onto a job site, you have 300-400 that don't want to be there, some don't speak English, then we get a union group, or an architect has other ideas, then traffic, weather, and things you can't control. It's hard for a leader to keep everybody working in the same direction. That's a huge leadership task. I was thinking about that. A construction superintendent at 6 am is thinking about all of this stuff. What makes someone good at that job? Sense of urgency, align and motivate hundreds of people, great planners, organized. Had a former Marine Vietnam Seargent who was great. A gym teacher who's awesome, he's in NYC with a job several city blocks. High sense of urgency, detail-oriented, motivates and aligns people. We do personality testing, and we've got a lot of people who are lower A and just as successful as higher A personalities. Such team players. Can put a team together. We like people who have played sports. Hiking – About 12 years ago, Anthony, his brother, son, and a few guys went out to hike a 10,000-footer in Colorado. They met their guide who was this little, old dude who looked like he smoked pot fairly regularly. As they looked to get started, Anthony asked him for the trail map and he said he didn't have one. "How do you know how to get to the top?" He pointed to the top of the mountain and said "It's right up there, we just need to keep going up." But when they were at the top, Anthony realized it was just an analogy for their business. We just needed to keep taking one more step up. ESOP - Consigli implemented an ESOP (Employee Stock Ownership Plan) to make the company entirely employee-owned, fostering a culture of accountability, shared responsibility, and pride among their teammates, where employees directly benefit from the company's success and feel a stronger sense of ownership in decision-making; essentially, it aimed to create a more engaged and motivated employee base by giving them a stake in the company's performance.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  We executed really well and it started to help make a name for ourselves. There was definitely some risk-taking there and I think the fear of failure just drove that hell out of us to make sure that they went right.

• 0:18Ryan Hawk?

  This episode is brought to you by Insight Global. Hiring the perfect culture, skill, and team fit isn't magic, it's expertise. As a true talent and professional services partner, Insight Global offers customized solutions to help you build teams, improve retention, and drive better business results. Go beyond staffing with Insight Global. If you'd like to learn more, go to insightglobal.com/learningleader. That's insightglobal.com/learningleader.

• 0:54Ryan Hawk?

  Welcome to the Learning Leader Show. I am your host, Ryan Hawke. Thank you so much for being here. Text HAWKE to 66866 to become part of Mindful Monday. You, along with tens of thousands of other learning leaders from all over the world, will receive a carefully curated email from me each Monday morning to help you start your week off right. You'll also receive details about how our book, The Score That Matters, will help you become a more effective leader. Text HAWKE to 66866. Now, on to tonight's featured leader. Anthony Consigli is the CEO of Consigli Construction. Consigli is a fourth-generation family-led construction company founded in 1905.

• 1:38Ryan Hawk?

  When Anthony became the CEO in 1997, the company had 25 employees and did about $3 million in revenue. As of today, they have 2,400 employees and will do $3.5 billion in revenue. It's an amazing story of growth, innovation, craftsmanship, and the power of surrounding yourself with great people. I originally met Anthony when he hired me to give a keynote speech to his leadership team in Boston a few months ago. We hit it all from there and then I asked him if he would come on the podcast so we could learn more about his story. And man, I'm glad we did. A few things we talked about,

• 2:19Ryan Hawk?

  what you can learn from being a gravedigger. Interesting part of his life growing up. How has life changed from playing football at Harvard? What those of us outside of the construction world can learn from a project manager on a job site? There are so many portable leadership lessons. Why Anthony has set his company up to be employee owned? The importance of pushing your edges. And then at the end, Anthony tells a great story about what he learned from a hiking guide in Colorado a decade ago. So, so good. Ladies and gentlemen, please enjoy my conversation with Anthony Consigli.

• 2:59Ryan Hawk?

  All right, Anthony, man, it's so good to see you and it's great to have you here on the Learning Leader Show. Welcome, man.

• 3:05Speaker 00

  Great to see you, Ryan. Thank you for having me.

• 3:08Ryan Hawk?

  Of course, of course. One of the rare times I got to come hang out with you in Boston or the outskirts of Boston, talk with your team, and then now get a chance to record because I was fascinated during my preparation for that keynote of learning more about you and learning more about your company. I was really just honored to get a chance to be in the room with you guys. So, so thank you for that.

• 3:30Speaker 00

  Well, we were honored to have you. It was a treat for us. I'm such a big fan of the show and so it was great to see you in person.

• 3:36Ryan Hawk?

  Love it, man. Okay, I want to go back in time. You're 14. You have done something that I've never done, and I don't know if I've ever spoken to somebody who's done, and that you were a gravedigger. You've dug a lot of ditches and cemeteries. One, why was that a big part of your upbringing? And what have you learned from your years digging graves?

• 4:00Speaker 00

  Sure. So as a small construction business, a big part of our work was digging graves for all of the local cemeteries. And at the time, most of them were by hand. And my grandfather always said, my father would say, hey, this is a recession-proof business. People are always going to die. And so he did things like that and snow plowing and other recession-proof business. Those were sort of core things that the company did. It was seven and a half feet long, four feet deep, about five and a half, I'm sorry, four feet wide, five and a half feet deep. When you would fill 22 wheelbarrows, wheel them up a plank onto a truck, that was the displacement from the coffin and the box that would go in the

• 4:44Speaker 00

  ground. And, and so, you know, we would dig, I don't know, I'm on average, three, four, 500 graves a year. And I would do it after school. I would do it on, on weekends, summer vacations and, and such. And it was, I'm not gonna lie, it was hard. I mean, you know, wintertime, you're out there with a jackhammer to get through the frost. It's cold in New England. When it's raining and whatever, you, you, you had to get the hole dug. But I would say, as miserable as it was at the time, I mean, the stories coming out of it were hilarious. You know, you go out and get the coordinates, map coordinates from a Catholic priest at a rectory or something, you go down and you map it out. And you, and

• 5:24Speaker 00

  it, at the time, it seems like, oh my God, this is a huge feat. How am I going to do this by myself or with another person? But it's just one shovel at a time, one wheelbarrow at a time, and you just sort of keep going. And there's one, one story, the, at one time, you know, we dug a grave, and that night, the phone rang at the house, and my father came in to see me, and he says, Anthony, you dug the grave in the wrong place. He said that they had the funeral today, and it's in the wrong lot. And there might have been some yelling and some, some F-bombs dropped in there, but The next day, he brought me down to cemetery. We marked the grave out in the right place, and I had to redig, move the box over and fill the hole back in and do this all while

• 6:07Speaker 00

  the family was watching, which was really embarrassing. And I wanted to blame the priest for giving me the wrong coordinates. Catholic Church at the time wasn't known for great record-keeping, but that was, that's sort of a lost cause. But in any case, grave digging taught you to, when something looks daunting, when something looks like, oh my God, this is a big job, to just have a process. One wheelbarrow at a time, a foot at a time, a shovel at a time, however you want to break it down, and to just follow that process and have discipline to it. And it's much the same as like we're going out and building a really large project now. It might look too daunting or too challenging. It's just

• 6:51Speaker 00

  like, hey, break this down into little pieces and follow a process. I would say the other thing that it really taught me is that when you make a mistake, to own it. Well, it wasn't right to blame the priest for screwing up. I needed to own it, and that's why my father had me go down by myself and fix it. Clean up your own messes. Grave digging taught me a lot of sort of things like that. Again, as miserable as it was at the time, there was great stories that came from it and a lot that I learned.

• 7:20Ryan Hawk?

  And I am sure you feel this way as a dad, putting your children in positions to where they have to do things that are both mentally and physically taxing, helps better prepare you for the future adversity that you're going to face. And I'm curious to learn more about that of like, how intentional was your dad about that? Or was he just like, hey, this is the work that needs to get done. Anthony, go do it, you know, go dig the grave. Like, how intentional are you as a dad of trying to put your children in positions to stress them physically and mentally to better prepare them for what's going to happen in the real world?

• 8:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's interesting. I like, I don't think my dad was intentional at all. I think it was like, hey, this is the way I was brought up and you're gonna do it too. And it's just, this is, this is what you're bought into. And no, I've told him over time, my dad to me and my brothers is, is like God. He's, he is the greatest human being ever taught us so much. He put us in some positions that I don't know, you know, you'd get arrested today. And so

• 8:30Ryan Hawk?

  Like what?

• 8:33Speaker 00

  No, I mean, in terms of some of the work that we did and, and some of the sacrifices, even when you get into like saying, playing high school sports, it was like, it was still work first and sports. Second, it was a, it was a bit of a sacrifice. When you're a freshman or sophomore in high school and you're playing on the varsity for the first time, and you're, you're running on the field for double sessions and you're late, and the coach is screaming at you, and you have to explain in front of him and the, the team that the funeral was like coming in and you had to bury a body. And that's why you're late. It, it's a bit humbling. So there were lots of moments like that where again, it's not intentional, but it sort of taught you that sacrifice is important.

• 9:15Speaker 00

  In terms of my own kids, like I did, I was much more intentional. I didn't have to make my kids do that stuff. But I did, because I, I wanted them to have the same benefit of learning work ethic of sacrifice and what it means and also, but also to be put in challenging positions. And so my daughter, who works for the company now, was working on construction sites when she was in high school, for instance. My son joined my, my daughter on a project we were building in Harlem, renovation of a building in Harlem, New York City, tough area. When he was in high school, he stayed, he lived with her down in the city for a month. He learned the whole subway system.

• 9:56Speaker 00

  For a high school kid to be working on a job like that and seeing things in New York City that you see is sort of a, a, a big learning experience.

• 10:07Ryan Hawk?

  Oh, yeah. Those, those things are so important. You mentioned football. And we had, we shared that and we've had conversations about how impactful that was in our lives. And then you get to the opportunity because of your football skill and your intelligence level, which is high enough in college to go to Harvard to play. What were some of the key learnings you learned from both being a student and a football player at Harvard?

• 10:31Speaker 00

  Let me start on the student side first. I would say going into Harvard is scary. I come out of a small sort of town. I had this image of my head in my head of either like flamethrowing progressives protesting every cause on the planet Earth or monocle-wearing, blue-blood type people that I just wouldn't fit in with. And really what I found was really the most diverse student mix I've ever seen in my life. I mean, there was a kid I played with who had been in an L.A. street gang. There was another kid who worked in a limestone mill in western Pennsylvania. Yet at the same time, there was a kid who

• 11:14Speaker 00

  was fifth-generation Harvard, who was just a nice kid. And that surprised me. And I I sort of morphed from a small-town meathead where my conversation was limited to how tough Chuck Norris was or Hulk Hogan to being able to be a lot more open-minded, a lot more curious, a lot more conversant on a number of things. And I would say Harvard gets knocked around a bit, especially lately. Liberal arts education gets knocked around a bit lately. And I I'm a big believer in it. I took a lot of business courses, a lot of them I may not have gotten a lot from. But then I took a course in Nordic mythology.

• 11:58Speaker 00

  And what did I learn from that? I mean, I, you know, I might have taken it because I needed an uneasy grade during football season. But I came out of there being able to tell better stories and understanding rituals and culture and symbols and tribalism. And like, I use that stuff to this day in my own business. And so, anyway, it just, it sort of changed me a bit. And I met the best friends I ever, I still have the best friends in my life from my days at Harvard. So, anyway, it really changed me into a, the person I sort of needed to be versus what I went in with.

• 12:37Ryan Hawk?

  How about adding on to the fact that you played football there?

• 12:41Speaker 00

  I mean, that was just an awesome experience. I in, you know, the one thing I'll say about about football and in the Ivy League in general is yes, kids are, they might be gifted academically, but they play hard, they train hard. Football is real to them. I'm reading the John Feinstein book about the ancient eight right now, and he captures it really well. But look, everybody, everybody, I say, everybody puts their fingers on the ground and you go through the same hard work, the same preparation, the same process. It teaches you resilience, it teaches you teamwork, it teaches you discipline to a process that you learn how to lose.

• 13:22Speaker 00

  My junior year there, we were eight and two and won the AV league and it was just a great experience. The next year, we, we returned almost everybody and we went two and eight. And to this day, we still talk about, hey, how does that happen and what happened? And it teaches you a lot about life.

• 13:41Ryan Hawk?

  Eight and two to two and eight, usually the story goes the other way. We were two and eight, our guys came together and we worked hard. The next year we won the Ivy League and we were eight and two. So it's for have it go, the reverse is completely backwards. What happened? What? How did, how did this team of obviously talented enough to win the conference, win the league? Then completely goes the other direction the next year?

• 14:04Speaker 00

  I don't know. We talk about it to this day, like the talent was there, but we, I don't know. You know, look, the easy thing to say would, would be that our heads got bloated and our egos got in the way. But I don't think that was it. I think that we, we had a couple of games where just things didn't go the right way. And all of a sudden people started doubting themselves and we lost confidence. And then I think when things started going the wrong way, we didn't do anything to correct it. We didn't do anything enough, I should say, to correct it. But I, you know, to this day, we sort of talk about it, me and my friends. And what's helped me with is understand, like my own company is really just a collection of teams.

• 14:48Speaker 00

  Like we have about 150 projects at one time and, and it's really 150 teams. And so I think constantly about. How is this team made up? Do they have the right players? Do they have the right leadership? Do they have the right team dynamics? Because the success of that team is gonna is gonna judge how well or how poorly that job goes. And that year of going two and eight taught me a lot more about teamwork than the eight and two team did in a lot of ways.

• 15:20Ryan Hawk?

  Well, that leads me to the construction world. And as I was preparing for our time and preparing for my keynote with your company, I was trying to learn more, not only about your company, but about your industry. So I could try to be somewhat relatable because that's not an industry that I'm familiar with. And as I was digging in and talking with you, a leader in the construction world has an insane job. And you'll be better at telling this to me, but just the the number of people and different incentives and different priorities that person or those people need to gather to build this giant thing is crazy.

• 16:02Ryan Hawk?

  Can you walk through just the sheer responsibility of somebody who is a leader while trying to build a giant apartment complex or a giant building in Boston or New York City or all over the place where you guys build? I'd just love for you to detail the sheer amount of responsibility that person has.

• 16:20Speaker 00

  Sure. It's funny you ask that because just last week I was at some conference and somebody asked the question, hey, name the three greatest leaders that you know. And of course, everybody started naming out CEOs or military people, politicians, whatever. And I started thinking about just the people that I worked with. And if you take a superintendent, project manager that might be building a building, as you said, like in South Boston or like we were building a hospital down in US Virgin Islands or say rural Maine. That person has to commute over probably over an hour to the job site early morning before most people have even gotten up.

• 17:03Speaker 00

  They're overseeing a hundred, three hundred, five hundred workers coming on the job. Most of them, you know, probably 30 or 40% will be immigrants or maybe even non-English speaking, all of them coming from different.

• 17:19Speaker 00

  Walks of life, socioeconomic backgrounds, and that person has to align all of them on a daily basis to to build something that has never been built before. It might be some unbelievable design by a world-leading architect, or it could be a hospital that is gonna help treat and treat people and save lives. But they're doing it in the midst of organizing thousands of different materials coming from all corners of the planet. They're doing it without knowing what the weather's gonna be, what the traffic or logistics concerns are gonna be. They'll be doing it with some guy with a tie on telling them that they're

• 18:03Speaker 00

  over budget, and some other person telling them that they're behind schedule, and someone else telling them that they need to work safer. And it's just, you've got all of these voices in your ear telling you, you need to do better, better, better, better, in all these different areas. And, you know, you gotta, you gotta make certainty and predictability out of all this stuff on a daily basis. And then you're gonna do it all over again the next day until that project is complete. It's a really hard job. And that's why I think that these guys I work with, men and women, they're some of the best leaders I've I've ever come across.

• 18:40Ryan Hawk?

  What are some of the core themes, the core qualities and actions of those project managers, superintendents, the ones leading on job sites, leading a bunch, hundreds and hundreds of different workers for them, some of them who don't speak English? Like, what are some of the commonalities among the ones who are the best of the best?

• 19:02Speaker 00

  Obviously, we look to hire for these things, but the best of the best are going to, I call it, have godrails, right? They have high standards, but they know that they have to move the godrails out a bit because they're like leading an orchestra. And not every person is going to do things.

• 19:21Ryan Hawk?

  Hold on, let's say, you said, I thought you said godrails. I was like, wait, god? Okay, guard, so, nice Boston accent, guardrail.

• 19:29Speaker 00

  Boston accent. I love it.

• 19:32Ryan Hawk?

  Guardrails, high standards. Okay, proceed. Sorry.

• 19:35Speaker 00

  I feel like Ben Affleck in the Dunkin' Donuts commercial. Yeah. But look, you're leading an orchestra. Not every person is going to play exactly the way you want to play. You have to have some tolerance levels, but you've got to hold high standards. You've got to have attention to detail. You've got to have a sense of urgency because everybody's trying to create an excuse why not to do something and you have to fight your way through that. You have to have great leadership abilities in terms of, of, you know, fighting through problems and keeping people aligned. So it's, it's, look, it's not that different from the skills I learned on the football field.

• 20:15Speaker 00

  A lot of these people have them. They have an ability to take criticism and not let it bother them.

• 20:23Ryan Hawk?

  You took over. Okay. I want to get the timeline right because the, the building of your company is an awesome story. It's one of the main reasons I wanted to, to do this. You became the CEO in 1997. Is that right?

• 20:38Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:38Ryan Hawk?

  Can you tell the history before 1997? What was Consigli? What was the business? What did you primarily do? How many people worked there? What were the yearly revenues leading up to 1997 when you took over?

• 20:51Speaker 00

  Sure. So business was started in 1905 by my great grandfather. He was a, a stonemason who had immigrated from Italy. He had six sons. They all had a trade all in, they were all mason trades, concrete, bricks, plaster, et cetera. But four of them went to World War II, fought in the war. My grandfather stayed back here and ran the business at that point. But the business stayed small for three generations, averaged around 20, 30 people. You know, most we did was probably a million dollars a year. My father was a heavy equipment operator at the same time he was running the business. And so, you know, I got out of Harvard, we were still digging graves and plowing snow and doing small commercial projects.

• 21:36Speaker 00

  But, you know, it was about, it was still about 20, 30 employees, you know, and that, that was the size my, you know, my grandfather and my father wanted to keep it.

• 21:45Ryan Hawk?

  So one, you become the CEO. I'm curious why they chose you and why you wanted it and then how you. You wanted to change the business or at minimum you wanted to grow the business, I imagine. So can you talk a little bit about that process of how you got chosen? Why you wanted to be the CEO and then what happened next? Some of your priorities, how you were able to start hypercharging the growth into Consigli?

• 22:13Speaker 00

  Sure. You know, my father, I think, always figured that I would run the company at some point. I had grown up in the business and he, he really liked running heavy equipment, but I would say that, that, you know, when I came into the business was like 1990 and we went through a really bad recession and I, and they say everybody has their crucible in life. This was really my crucible. We were in tough shape, like we couldn't make payroll, couldn't pay our bills. I was 22 years old and had just gotten my now wife pregnant and there's just a lot of stuff going on and in our extended family

• 22:52Speaker 00

  that was problematic. And so it was a tough few years and it's, you know, when we got through it, you know, working hard and scrapping and, and such, but we got to around not 1995, 96 and we, we sort of stable, we had stabilized and, you know, my father said, all right, this is a good time to transition. And at the same time, my brother, my younger brother Matthew had just joined us and I don't think I'll ever forget, we were, I think it was winter time and, and people were out snow plowing, but we had to cover a grave. And so I think we were down the cemetery and here I am, I got a Harvard economics degree. I have all these visions of

• 23:36Speaker 00

  what I want to do with my life and I'm covering a grave. And I think the two of us looked at each other and said, what are we doing? And so I think it was about that moment that like, you know, we had a conversation with my father and he said, hey, this is a good transition point, became CEO. And at that moment, I think, you know, my brother and I decided to give up grave digging and snow plowing and a bunch of the different things that they might've made money, but it wasn't what we wanted to spend our life doing. And we decided to focus on where do we want this company to go? And so that was sort of a, a real big moment. It was a big moment for me, big moment for the company, I think.

• 24:16Ryan Hawk?

  So what happened next? Because it's one thing to say, I don't want to be digging graves. I don't want to be plowing snow. I mean, the recession-proof businesses, I understand why you do it. Because in the short term, you're going to be able to make payroll. You're going to be able to make a little bit of money. You're going to be able to run your business. So I could see how it would be hard to give up kind of guaranteed moneymakers. But that's what you decided to do. So how were you able to have the confidence and the guts to say, we're going to go big here? We're not going to just do these little jobs that basically anybody could do. But we're going to do something more special. We're going to do something bigger. What was it in you that said, that's what I want to do? And then the harder part is actually doing it. So how were you able to make that happen?

• 24:58Speaker 00

  Sure. So at the time, there was no grand vision of, hey, we want to be a billion, $2 billion, $3 billion company. There was none of that. It was just, we knew what we didn't want to be. And so, but we, the first thing we did was, we said, okay, we know what we don't want to do. So we gave those things up. Second is, like, we started focusing on larger jobs, like jobs that could span a year or two years. You know, help us get through a recession if we were to have another recession. And so we took some shots on doing some projects that were a little bit out of our wheelhouse and a little bit bigger than, and there were challenges. I'll tell you what, we planned them real well.

• 25:40Speaker 00

  We executed really well and we, it started to help make a name for ourself. And, but there was definitely some risk-taking there. And I think the fear of failure just drove that hell out of us to make sure that they went right. And at the same time, we, you know, we focused on a brand. We focused on the history of the company, came up with a new logo. When really branding ourself around this craftsmanship and masonry.

• 26:11Speaker 00

  That my grandfather and father and uncles were sort of known for, you know, and then I would say lastly, we, we sort of built our team like we didn't know what we were doing and but we went out and we hired some people who did and, and sort of convinced them or were able to convince them to take a chance on us that we were going to bring this company to a great place and sort of built out our core leadership team in about five years that they're all still here today. It's 30 years later and they're, they're still with me. I mean, it's a great story of consistency, but those are the four or five things we did at that time that helped us, give us a launching pad to start growing the business.

• 26:55Ryan Hawk?

  It's funny, Anthony, I've had this conversation recently with some others who have sustained excellence over time like you have. And one of the commonalities is you acted and you took action before you were ready. You didn't fully know what you were even doing, but you had the willingness to get after it, the willingness to act, the willingness to do the work and the willingness to figure it out as you went, as well as you're willing to make the investment in other people that maybe did know a little bit more than you that could help you get there. And it seems like that combination of things of being able to lean into some of the uncertainty,

• 27:38Ryan Hawk?

  being able to take on a big job where deep down, you're probably thinking, I'm not even sure if we can do this job. I don't know if we can build this big thing. And so I'm, I'm curious about maybe one of those first big jobs. What was it? Could you take us in the moment of an example of a time where you said yes, you bid on a project and you got it. And maybe even after you got it, you, you looked around, maybe talked to your brother and say, wait, maybe I almost wish we didn't get it because this was too big of a job. I'm not sure if we can do it. I wonder if there are any of those moments or an example you could share that could illuminate that process?

• 28:13Speaker 00

  Sure. You know, it's funny, at the time, like our confidence level and self-esteem was sort of at an all time low coming out of this recession. We started taking some bigger jobs. There was, there was one job in particular. There was a school renovation and it was a really nasty job in terms of just all these structural. Sort of things that had to go into the school to stabilize it and renovate it. And so it was a lot, it was a job that a lot of people sort of walked away from like, hey, this is too hard or it's too nasty, whatever. And we bid it and we were low bidder. At that time, a lot of the jobs that we had gotten were based on a low bid.

• 28:55Speaker 00

  And we were very worried, like, hey, did we leave too much money on the table? Are we too cheap? Is this going to bankrupt us? And, but we had started taking a few smarter people on, on board the team and, and just really helped us plan it really well. And, and I'll tell you what, we, we killed the job, absolutely killed it, made enough money to really help give us the confidence and, and got done on time. And it gave us the confidence to go out and do it again and, and to build a bigger job, go after one slightly larger. And, and we, we made so many friends on that job who were so impressed with us that they started referring us to other people. And it's the Ken Blanchard concept of raving fans.

• 29:39Speaker 00

  It's like, if you have net promoters out there that are going to promote you, that's better than anything and in terms of building a business. And, and so we relied on that.

• 29:48Ryan Hawk?

  What was different or what is different? Cause you're still actively building this thing. Like I got to sit in and see all of the financial meetings too, and your sales leaders. And it was fascinating to learn all of that. What's different about you versus others who are bidding on these jobs or others who are doing similar work in the construction industry? What makes you guys different?

• 30:08Speaker 00

  You know, it's a great question. I, our competitors, like any industry, they all get paid too. They're all very good at what they do. I think our business, we really love the building process. Like we, we love building, we love figuring out better ways of doing things, more innovative ways of doing things, but we really focus on the craft. Like sometimes construction can become too much of a business and you forget like why you're in the business. And because we grew up around a lot of tradespeople, we have such a, a respect for what they do that when we get into a project, we really want to figure out, okay, we call it the

• 30:51Speaker 00

  art of craftsmanship. How can we do things better, more differently? But I think the thing that we do better and continue to. Really work on is is that to be a builder first and a construction business second. And I would say secondly is we really focus on the client service aspect of it. It's you can go to a restaurant and have a great meal at a great price and all that kind of stuff. But if the service isn't what you expect, it's not a great experience. And for someone building a building, you can be safe, you can have high quality, you can have the right price, you can be on schedule. But if the experience thinks you're not going to want to use that person again.

• 31:34Speaker 00

  And so we do focus on the experience side of things. You know, and lastly, I think we just want to hire great people. I want to work around people that I know, like and trust. And so a lot of work goes into how do you find those good people? And so I think those are some of the things we do maybe a little bit better or a little bit differently.

• 31:55Ryan Hawk?

  So when you take over in 97, a CEO, I believe, fix these numbers if they're wrong. There are roughly 25 employees and you guys made around three million bucks a year. Where are you at now, employees as well as revenue?

• 32:09Speaker 00

  So we get about about 2,400 employees who are about three and a half billion revenue. Where we go from the Virgin Islands, we skip over, we're in North Carolina up through New York and New England.

• 32:21Ryan Hawk?

  That's insane.

• 32:25Ryan Hawk?

  But I feel like though, the reason that your story is also inspiring is because you mentioned, you could easily go back and fix the story and say, well, I had this vision to be a $5 billion company and we're close. But instead, I feel like part of what's inspiring to me at least is you've put one foot in front of the other. You've taken risk, you've hired really well, you focused on craftsmanship. You surround yourself with great people. You have great service for the people you work with. You do so your work is so excellent that then it leads to raving fans,

• 33:06Ryan Hawk?

  which then fills your pipeline full of work almost more than you can even fulfill. Is that an accurate summation of what you've tried to do over the years?

• 33:16Speaker 00

  That's what we're trying to do. And in most cases, we succeed. In some places, we fall down, or we call them drop any eggs, don't drop any eggs. But yeah, that's, that is the intention. But it all, it does all start with people. You know, I mentioned the leadership team that had been with me a long time. And at the time that I was struggling with the business, I looked for people who, a lot of them were athletes, because I knew they understood teamwork, they understood discipline, they could take coaching, they were resilient. And, and so we ended up hiring a lot of athletes, or former athletes. And it was just, it was what I knew. And that was sort of working

• 33:58Speaker 00

  out for us. And we continue to do that to this day. Like, a lot of athletes, a lot of former military, but it's people who are high initiative and can, can understand all those concepts that, that I sort of grew up with.

• 34:11Ryan Hawk?

  I mean, I'm very biased, Anthony. So you may be talking to the wrong guy, but I've had very good experiences hiring people from that background, not exclusively, but, and to get criticized by HR departments from time to time, because they're like, that's you. So you're just hiring people like you. But there is an element, people who either served our country in the military, which I met a number of them after I spoke at your company, and including guys who had, were super high up and impressive, as well as people who played quarterback, or who were college athletes. I just feel like there's something, not across the board, but there's something special with a lot of those people, the, the, the men and women who have played sports at a really high level when it comes

• 34:52Ryan Hawk?

  to resilience, preparation, coachability, so big, and working with others, which in the construction world, you gotta do. So it just seems like it makes a lot of sense as to why they would do well at your company.

• 35:04Speaker 00

  I just read a recent Harvard Business Review article that came out. A business professor had done a study there that showed that if, that at, former athletes, over the course of their career, will make more money and go further in their businesses than people who hadn't played sports. Now, that's not to say that sports is the end all. Be all, it's just that on average they do better. And it's for the exact same things that you just talked about. Now, can you get that in the military? Sure. Can you get that in the performing arts? Sure. But you've got to be able to show those same qualities. And as we talked about earlier, a construction site is filled with hundreds of different personalities and people of different education levels and cultural backgrounds.

• 35:50Speaker 00

  You need somebody that sort of understands that teamwork and how to work in a large team. And that's why former athletes do work well in construction.

• 36:00Ryan Hawk?

  Especially that part about working with people from all different walks of life. That's why I think college athletics is really key. Because in high school, sometimes you don't get that. But in college, I remember my first locker, I'm around guys from all over the country that have different accents, that have their own almost different language that they've used, that I become super acclimated to. And now I can hang out and become really good lifelong friends, which I am with a number of them that we would have never, ever, ever met if it weren't be the fact that we both played football in college. And I think that is a great thing. I realize not everybody has the ability to do that. But I'm with you that I think there's something there. There's a couple more things I wanted to hit Anthony that I think are really big.

• 36:43Ryan Hawk?

  You mentioned that your logo and I don't always talk about logos. I'm not sure it's important, but in this case, I feel like it is because there's a lot of meaning in the arch. What does the arch mean to you and why is that a part of your logo?

• 36:58Speaker 00

  So when we decided to rebrand the company, what we based it on was the oldest picture we could find of my great grandfather was building this massive stone arch and he was on the scaffolding. And, you know, I think it dates back to like the twenties and so.

• 37:19Speaker 00

  For us, the arch was part of our legacy, but it also denotes teamwork, right? You can't, the two, so like the famous St. Louis arch picture. It's like you can't make an arch work without teamwork. But it also denotes forward thinking, strength, stability. And, and those are all qualities that we sort of wanted to be known for. And so the arch was sort of the perfect logo for what we were looking for. You know, at that time, I was reading a ton of like, like the only, the only place I could go was reading like Jim Collins books and, and Harvard Business Review. They're like, my wife would drive and I would read.

• 37:59Speaker 00

  I mean, that's, this was pre podcast days and that, that's, that, that was sort of my business school experience. It was just reading everything I could pick out. And so a lot of the Jim Collins stuff, which is awesome, you know, was based on building a great lasting company. And so the arch was sort of the perfect representative of that.

• 38:18Ryan Hawk?

  You mentioned building a great lasting company and you and your brother and your family have intentionally set it up in a way that you're a very wealthy guy, but you could be a much, much wealthier person. I don't fully understand what an ESOP is. I know some people do. Can you describe what an ESOP is and why you decided to set your company up that way?

• 38:42Speaker 00

  Sure. So an ESOP is basically an employee stock ownership program. We transitioned the company about six years ago into an ESOP. Over the course of my career, I have seen a lot of construction companies close their doors. And a lot of these construction companies I admired and I sort of wanted to model our own company after. And I was watching them all close because they had a hard time either doing the, the leadership transition, or they would take two or three bad jobs that ultimately sank them. Construction has the second highest failure rate of any business after restaurants in, in the United States.

• 39:24Speaker 00

  And going back to that recession of 1990, fair or failure is a real thing for me. And, and so I don't want to take a fourth or fifth generation company and not have it last, and not, not be a lasting legacy type company. My brother feels the same way. So we started talking about what are the things that we can do to make sure that this is a, a long-term, sustainable, legacy type company. And, and we made the decision, like after studying a whole bunch of different models, that the ESOP was really the best model for achieving

• 40:04Speaker 00

  that. And for us, you know, it, it wasn't about the money. Like if we died and had two extra bags of cash, but the company had failed, that, that would be a failure, right? I'd rather die with no money, but still consistently construction be around and in a great place. And so for us, the ESOP became an easy decision. And it's, it's, it took a few years to start making an impact, but I will say neither of us have any regret. We look back and think it was absolutely the right thing to do. And for an owner, uh, like myself and my brother, we feel like we're part of, much more part of a team now.

• 40:46Speaker 00

  Like I'm an employee, I get a check. My name's on the door. Okay. But I still feel like I'm more of a team and part of a team. And, and that's a good feeling to have.

• 40:57Ryan Hawk?

  So the company just structurally is owned by all of your employees?

• 41:01Speaker 00

  That's correct.

• 41:02Ryan Hawk?

  How does that work?

• 41:04Speaker 00

  I mean, basically it's, it's almost like, it's really they own stock in the company. And you, there's a besting program. You get to be here for so long. And, you know, provided the company does well, which it has, they can make a lot of money. And you know what? Construction's hard. It's damn hard. So they should make a lot of money. During COVID, and COVID was a tough period for construction because everybody else is at home on their couch. And we're out working because you can't build a building from your living room. And so I remember my daughter calling me, uh, you know, it's early in the morning. She was, she's in Maine and she's driving to a, you know, it's like 20 below zero. She's driving to a job at stock out and she's like, Dad, why am I doing this? And, um, you know, her husband's at home.

• 41:48Speaker 00

  And I says, I says, Hunt, it's, I don't, I don't know. I was trying to come up with something. I'm trying to be a father and a boss at the same time. I says, it's sort of like, why would a farmer fall, follow their dad's footsteps into farming? And, um, but I said, look, I know there are hard days, but there's also a lot of days that are really rewarding. The day you open a project and people are seeing it for the first time, or the day you raise that last piece of steel, or, or, or just the ability to do something with a good bunch of people that's really hard, really challenging, but you do it together and, and, and you succeed. Like, you can't get that in other businesses. And we talked

• 42:28Speaker 00

  about that a lot because construction does have its hard days. And, and so I, I think one of the benefits of being an employee owned company is it just binds everybody together, um, a bit better than a normal corporate structure would, whether it be a publicly owned company, privately owned company, whatever. So anyway, I, I, I think it's a, it's a real asset for us.

• 42:52Ryan Hawk?

  We talk about ownership. They legitimately own it. I mean, it's not, it's like a saying, it's real. I think that's a big deal. And I love that you guys have structured that way. To close, Anthony, I have one more question that I think a story that's actually ties everything we've talked about together, because it's the, again, I think the way you've approached it's inspiring to me. That's why we're having this conversation. It's why I love being with your team in Boston. It's, you're out in Colorado. I believe you're with your brother, your son. You guys are going to go for a big, a big, big hike, like a tough one. Can you take me to that story, to that moment when you're in Colorado about to, to go on a big hike together and, and what you learned from it?

• 43:32Speaker 00

  Sure. I'm a, I'm a big hiker, as I know you are. And we decided to go out to Colorado to try and do a 10,000 footer. And, and hiking for me is sort of a release. It, it helps me, helps me think. We went out and we're at the base of this mountain. We had a guy, he was a little old guy. Um, I think he smoked a lot of pot, but that, that's just me. And, um, you know, we're getting ready to go. And I said, well, where's the trail? And where's the map? Like, I'm used to hiking in the White Mountains. It's pretty dense and, and you can get lost very easily. And he said, well, we don't need a trail. We don't need a map. I'm like, well, how, how do we know where we're going? And he says, well, he just pointed to the top of the mountain. He says, well, we're going there. We're going up.

• 44:17Speaker 00

  And I don't know why I had this like moment where I says, oh my God, that just makes so much sense. And, and like for me, like strategic planning of my own business, it's like every year, you're just going up, you just get better every year. And so I don't need this big mapped out strategic plan sitting on the shelf of, of how every step is going to go all the way up the mountain. I just need to put one foot in front of the other and know that we're getting a little bit better, what, every hour, every day, every, every year. And, you know, where, where we go, we go. I mean, obviously, we're planning out a few years and thinking about where the markets

• 45:00Speaker 00

  are going and all that kind of stuff. But, you know, for me, that, that hiking trip and that guide was sort of revelational. And so, anyway, that, that's, that was my strategic plan, I guess.

• 45:13Ryan Hawk?

  That's what I'm saying. I think it's inspirational is that planning is, has, it certainly has a place. It's important to think about it. It's important to be reflective. It's important to have some sort of a vision and a place where you want to go. I do think goals, all that stuff. It all has its place. It's all useful. With that said, the willingness, the ability, the endurance to get up, get to the job site, take the next step, take the next step, go up, get to the top, and then go up to the next one, and the next one, and take the next step. There is a lot to be said from a guy who takes over a very small business that had been small for

• 45:57Ryan Hawk?

  multiple generations. That's the, that's the key part here. When I learned, they dug deeper, I'm like, wait, it was a small business for multiple generations of humans. Then you get in there and you have a mentality of I'm going to take some risk, but I'm going to take the next step, and the next step, and the next step. And that stuff compounds so much over time that you can go from a three, four, five million dollar business to a four billion dollar business serving 2,400 employees who are doing great work, who now actually own the business. Dude, I love it. And I think it's very inspirational. I really appreciate you being here. I appreciate your friendship. I appreciate your trust in me to come and spend time with your team. And I, you know, I know that this, this won't be the last conversation we have. I'd love to continue

• 46:42Ryan Hawk?

  our dialogue as we both progress, man.

• 46:45Speaker 00

  Awesome. This has been a lot of fun for me to talk with you. Like I said, your podcast has been a great learning tool for me as I continue on my own journey.

• 46:55Ryan Hawk?

  Means a lot, man. It really means a lot. I really appreciate it. Thanks so much, Anthony.

• 46:58Speaker 00

  All right. Good to see you, Ryan.

• 47:03Ryan Hawk?

  It is the end of the Podcast Club. Thank you for being a member of the End of the Podcast Club. If you are, send me a note, [email protected]. Let me know what you learned from this great conversation with Anthony Consigli. A few takeaways from my notes. I felt like the through line for the whole conversation is that Anthony has been willing to take the next step each day. Didn't necessarily have a grand vision. Just like their guide who told them in Colorado when Anthony asked about a map or a trail up the mountain, the guy pointed to the top and said, "It's right up there. We just need to keep going. You've got to take the next step, and then the next, and then the next, and then you surround yourself

• 47:45Ryan Hawk?

  with great people. You focus on craftsmanship. You do excellent work. You push your edges, and you do it consistently for decades, and you've got a chance for great things to happen." I also really appreciated his grave digging stories. It's a really hard job. It's manual labor. Most people don't want to do it. And all the things that he learned from it, when you mess up, you've got to take responsibility. You own up to it. You fix it. You learn from your mistakes, and you get better. And I enjoyed learning from him that him and his brother had a bigger ambition. They could have kept going with their steady income from snow plowing and ditch digging, but instead, they pushed the boundaries of what they were capable of. They took on bigger projects. They hired people to help them.

• 48:28Ryan Hawk?

  They did excellent work, and word spread that they had an appreciation for the craft. I love all that. And that's how you go from a $3 million business to a $3 billion business in just a few decades. What an inspiring story.

• 48:47Ryan Hawk?

  I want to say to you, thank you once again for continuing to spread the message and telling a friend or two, hey, you should listen to this episode of the Learning Leader Show with Anthony Consigli. I think he'll help you become a more effective leader because you continue to do that and you also go to Spotify and Apple Podcasts and you subscribe to the show. Really important. Then you rate it, hopefully five stars, and you write a thoughtful review. And by doing all of that, you keep giving me the opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis. And for that, I will forever be grateful. Thank you so, so much. Talk to you soon. Can't wait.