250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll

In this episode, Payton and Garrett explore the unsettling case of Yancy Noll, a man tragically gunned down at a stoplight. Was it a spontaneous act of road rage or a calculated, cold-blooded murder? NEW MERCH LINK: https://mwmhshop.com Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/themwmh Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/murderwithmyhusband/ Discount Codes: https://mailchi.mp/c6f48670aeac/oh-no-media-discount-codes Watch on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@murderwithmyhusband Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/into-the-dark/id1662304327 Listen on spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/36SDVKB2MEWpFGVs9kRgQ7?si=f5224c9fd99542a7 Case Sources: CapitolHillSeattle.com- https://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2015/01/yancy-noll-killer-sentenced-to-29-years-in-prison/ CBSNews.com - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/yancy-noll-murder-road-rage-turned-deadly-or-thrill-kill/ SeattlePI.com - https://www.seattlepi.com/seattlenews/article/Shooter-in-random-Seattle-murder-gets-29-years-5990912.php KIRO7.com - https://www.kiro7.com/news/murder-suspect-i-shot-victim-self-defense/82074516/ CaseText.com - https://casetext.com/case/in-re-pers-restraint-of-bowman-1 Courts. WA.gov - https://www.courts.wa.gov/opinions/pdf/730690.pdf ParamountExpress.com - https://www.paramountpressexpress.com/cbs-news-and-stations/shows/48-hours/releases/?view=45999-the-murder-of-a-seattle-wine-steward-driving-home-put-the-city-on-edge-was-it-road-rage-or-was-the-gunman-a-self-taught-killer-intent-on-finding-the-p SPDBlotter.com - https://spdblotter.seattle.gov/2012/09/10/i-killed-yancy-noll-who-am-i/ Fox13Seattle.com - https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/man-found-guilty-of-2012-murder-juror-says-no-evidence-of-road-rage LATimes.com - https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-xpm-2012-sep-24-la-na-nn-seattle-road-rage-20120924-story.html ThePourFool.com - https://thepourfool.com/2021/08/09/the-murder-of-yancy-noll-a-sense-of-senselessness-nine-years-on/ MyNorthwest.com - https://mynorthwest.com/16786/prosecutor-says-defendant-was-on-a-murder-quest-in-yancy-noll-killing/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:27Speaker 01

  It's that magical time of year when Designer Shoe Warehouse becomes your Designer Shoe Wonderland and you become everyone's favorite gifter because you know that good things come in shoe boxes like cozy slippers, on-trend kicks, boots made for snow stomping, and party shoes that sparkle and shine. Plus, stocking stuffers that bring joy from head to mistletoe. Who doesn't love more joy? Find shoes for you and yours at your Designer Shoe Wonderland. Shop in-store or visit dsw.com. DSW, let us surprise you.

• 0:57Payton Moreland?

  You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder with My Husband. I'm Payton Moreland.

• 1:04Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm Garrett Moreland.

• 1:06Payton Moreland?

  And he's the husband.

• 1:06Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm the husband.

• 1:07Payton Moreland?

  Well, Garrett and I are back. It is 2025. We are ready to go into our fifth year? This would be year five?

• 1:21Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, sorry, blanked out. Yes, year five in April of podcasting.

• 1:26Payton Moreland?

  Holy cow.

• 1:28Garrett Moreland?

  That's pretty crazy. Thank you for being here. We love you. Hope everyone had a good break. If you had a break, good holidays. Back in action. I'm sure everyone's back to work, back at the office. Yeah, that's kind of what we got. Peyton has been on bedrest the last couple of days. She currently can't really walk, so I'm taking care of her and we have an MRI when this episode, the day this episode comes out. So fingers crossed everything is okay there.

• 1:58Payton Moreland?

  I asked her if we could set the cameras up and film the episode from our bed, but he said that'd be weird.

• 2:03Garrett Moreland?

  It'd be weird because I would want a different type of episode.

• 2:08Garrett Moreland?

  I'd try to say it with a straight face.

• 2:10Payton Moreland?

  I'm broken.

• 2:11Garrett Moreland?

  I couldn't.

• 2:14Garrett Moreland?

  Anyways, yeah, Peyton did make it to the studio recording. I think we'll get some good news on Monday and then we can kind of figure out a game plan. That's what we got going. Announcements. I'm kind of taking over the podcast right now. Announcements. If you want to listen to any bonus content, we have ad free content, bonus episodes each month, two bonus episodes each month, to be exact. You can check that out on Patreon or actually you can check it out on Spotify as well. On Spotify, you can connect directly and Apple subscriptions. Check it out. If you love it, you'll love it.

• 2:51Payton Moreland?

  A reminder that Spotify, Patreon, Apple subscriptions, it's all the same thing, just different platforms to receive the same content. I feel like sometimes people are a little confused on that.

• 3:02Garrett Moreland?

  Correct. For my 10 seconds this week, I would like to talk about how I keep biting the same spot in my cheek over and over again. I know some of you out there as well suffer with cheek bite disorder and it has been very painful.

• 3:19Garrett Moreland?

  I swear that spot every time I chew, it just sticks out. I keep biting it. It hurts really bad. That's it. I don't know. I just, I bit it on the way the other night when we were going to dinner. And I wanted to turn the car around and go home because I was so mad at myself, but I didn't. I took some deep breaths and everything's okay. That's all I got for everyone. I will say though. A little tease, some new merch is coming out in a couple of weeks, so be ready for that. Really excited for that. I say this every time. I don't care. I'm really excited for this one. We'll throw up some teaser pictures pretty soon.

• 3:52Payton Moreland?

  I hope one day we release one and we're like, yeah, to be honest, guys, we're just not really excited about this one.

• 3:56Garrett Moreland?

  This one kind of sucks. Don't buy it. You should not buy it.

• 4:00Payton Moreland?

  I don't think I'd say that, but.

• 4:01Garrett Moreland?

  I would.

• 4:02Payton Moreland?

  I just.

• 4:04Garrett Moreland?

  I'm honest with my listeners. All right. That's enough talking. We love you guys. We're going to hop into today's episode.

• 4:12Payton Moreland?

  Our sources for this episode are Capitol Hill, seattlepi.com, CBS News.com, Seattle PI.com, K I R O seven.com, case text.com, courts dot Washington dot gov, Paramount Express.com, SPD blotter.com, Fox thirteen, seattlepi.com, LA Times.com, the poor fool.com, and my Northwest.com. Okay, so I think it's fair to say that we've all maybe done rash things in a moment of anger that we probably regretted later on, whether that's saying something we didn't mean to a loved one, or even a complete stranger. Most of us look back with this feeling of guilt or shame, knowing that this behavior was out of character for us. And we take

• 4:53Payton Moreland?

  it as a learning opportunity, right? But not everyone is like that. When Thomas Din Bowman found himself in a heated moment with a stranger, it actually turned deadly. And I do have to mention here, oftentimes on our Thursday live streams over on Twitch.

• 5:11Garrett Moreland?

  I was just gonna say that.

• 5:12Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, we watch road rage videos. And it really, we talk about it all the time over there. But just how strange it is that in one second, you can be that rageful at a stranger that sometimes they turn physical.

• 5:25Garrett Moreland?

  Even some of the videos we watch, it goes from two guys arguing to the next second, someone pulls out a gun and shoots the other person.

• 5:32Payton Moreland?

  Yes.

• 5:33Garrett Moreland?

  Whoa. How did we get here? There was no need to escalate things to this.

• 5:38Payton Moreland?

  Well, Mr. Thomas Din Bowman is one of those people. Okay. But it turns out, this encounter wasn't as random as Din made it seem. He had a dark secret. And those feelings of regret and remorse only came when he realized he was gonna have to pay for that decision with his life. So it's August of 2012 in Seattle, Washington. In the city of more than 600,000 people, a 42 year old man named Yancy Noll, found his place in the

• 6:15Payton Moreland?

  A quick add in here, if you're like me, the only Yancy you know is actually a girl from the movie Sleepover. So leave a comment for me on Instagram if you're with me on that. But this Yancy is a 42-year-old man. And after growing up in Anchorage, Alaska, Yancy moved to the Seattle area around 2002, and he's excited to be in a big city. For a fiercely intelligent, sharp-witted guy like Yancy, Alaska might have just been too slow-moving for his taste. Speaking of taste, he also had a very refined palate when it came to wine. So whether or not Yancy moved to Seattle for the job, I'm not sure.

• 6:57Payton Moreland?

  But I do know that he became a well-respected wine buyer for local supermarkets.

• 7:03Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 7:04Payton Moreland?

  But fine wine was just one of the many things Yancy embraced about life. He also loved a good adventure. He loved a scenic hike with his dog Lola, or his fiancee Jody, maybe the occasional skydiving trip, or at the very least, a morning kayak with his friend Rick. Everyone who knew Yancy said he was kind and warm with a big heart. He could always find something to talk about, to fill the gap of silence and make you feel more comfortable. The kind of person who was great at his job, who minded his own business, who worked for the weekend, and really lived life to the fullest. Someone who had a bright future ahead of him and was excitedly planning a wedding with the love of his life.

• 7:47Payton Moreland?

  So when Yancy left work to head home on the evening of August 31st, 2012, he assumed he was going to spend the weekend like any other, living out another adventure and unwinding with his dog and future bride. But life had other plans for Yancy. It was around 7:30 PM that night when five gunshots went off in Seattle's Roosevelt neighborhood. They rang out from a traffic light at an intersection, right at the corner of 15th Avenue and 75th Street. So witnesses then caught a glimpse of a silver BMW Z4 burn rubber and screech away from the scene.

• 8:30Garrett Moreland?

  That's the first problem. He's driving a silver Z4.

• 8:34Payton Moreland?

  So our first eyewitnesses, Kevin Watts and Angelo Rama, heard the gunshots go off behind them in their rearview mirror. And the next thing they know, that silver BMW with its top-down and customized rims was racing through the red light past them into oncoming traffic. Now, when you see that, you know that whatever just happened was serious. I mean, this is a scene out of a movie. So these two eyewitnesses, Kevin and Angelo, they're the citizens we all want around us because as soon as they hear these gunshots and then this BMW flies past them, they decide to hit the gas from zero to 60 and try to

• 9:14Payton Moreland?

  keep up with this vehicle. They are gonna follow him and stop him. So he weaves in and out of traffic and is totally out of sight, though, within seconds.

• 9:24Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 9:24Payton Moreland?

  So Kevin and Angelo, when they lose him, decide to go back to the scene and make sure everyone else is okay there. They're not even really sure what happened. And that's when they see a red Subaru still sitting at the green light against the curb. And as they get out and approach the car, there's a lot of glass on the ground and a lot of blood. The driver inside still had both of his hands firmly gripped on the steering wheel.

• 9:52Garrett Moreland?

  Oh my gosh, okay.

• 9:53Payton Moreland?

  And he had four bullets in his head. And as you know, the victim was Yancy Noll. Now, we have another eyewitness, a woman named Patricia Schulmeister, who also came outside after hearing the gunfire. She actually lived right at the corner of this intersection. In fact, the fifth bullet, which had missed Yancy, had actually fired through her fence, through a pane of glass and into her home, and then through a lampshade and then into a picture she had hanging of her cat.

• 10:26Garrett Moreland?

  Holy crap.

• 10:27Payton Moreland?

  So the bullet hit her picture of her cat. And by the time Patricia even found that bullet, police had already been called to the scene of the crime. Patricia came out, handed it to investigators. And right away, they could tell the make of the gun, a 9mm Glock pistol. But the first question police are asking is,

• 10:46Payton Moreland?

  Did anyone see what sparked this whole thing? I mean, we have someone who was just shot in the head four times in broad daylight. Was this a targeted hit on Yancey Noel? Or was this completely random? So when they look into Yancey's background, they don't find a single shred of criminal history, which kind of sort of ruled out anything gang or drug related to police. But the one thing they find incredibly strange is all of the glass in the street. It's not from Yancey's car because his windows are rolled down. It's from the shooter's car, which means the shooter from the driver's side shot through his passenger side window and into Yancey's car.

• 11:31Garrett Moreland?

  I am so curious where this goes.

• 11:34Payton Moreland?

  But if you remember, the eyewitnesses said the BMW had his top down. So he has his top down, but his windows up. That's how he's rolling. But this is actually helpful to the police because not only do they have a description of the vehicle, they know they are looking for one with a broken passenger side window.

• 11:50Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 11:51Payton Moreland?

  And later they find there were one or two witnesses who caught a pretty good glimpse of the driver himself. They said the man was well dressed in his late twenties or early thirties with slick backed hair and was either white or Asian. Now, officers have an artist compile a sketch which they release to the public a few days later. They also offer up a grainy photo of the driver they managed to pull off a nearby security camera. And for the next two or three weeks, they keep having local news channels run the image of the mysterious hitman. Meanwhile, police speak with Yancey's friends and family. They're trying to get to the bottom of what might have unfolded at that intersection.

• 12:36Payton Moreland?

  They're wondering, does Yancey have any enemies? But everyone they talked to was like, no, Yancey was the friendliest guy. There was no way this was a planned hit against him personally. It just doesn't make sense. So police consider another angle. Is this an instance? Of road rage gone horribly wrong. They actually point to a dent in the front of Yancey's car that suggests to them, maybe he was driving aggressively that day, got into some sort of accident. But even so, Yancey's friends say it didn't seem possible. According to them, Yancey apparently drove like a grandmother. He was overly cautious. He never showed signs of impulsive anger or recklessness.

• 13:21Payton Moreland?

  And that dent on his car was there long before that night. They all say it's completely unlikely Yancey would ever start anything physical or verbal with a stranger. He's mindful and considerate. He's polite to a fault. So the road rage thing also starts to seem unlikely to police. But what other angle do they have right now? Well, one week turns to two and the police are receiving hundreds of tips from people throughout Seattle. Because apparently silver BMW Z fours with custom rims are very popular at the time. But none of those leads evolve into anything of note.

• 14:02Garrett Moreland?

  What year are we in again?

• 14:03Payton Moreland?

  2012.

• 14:04Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, I'm just trying to get a good picture of that Z four in my head.

• 14:09Payton Moreland?

  So they can't come up with anything. There's just this hit and run that led to a guy being dead. Until September 14th. That day, a woman calls the police with an anonymous tip after seeing the sketch. She says that she thinks the driver is a man that lives less than 10 blocks from where the shooting took place. She says, I know his name. It's Thomas Din Bowman.

• 14:34Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 14:35Payton Moreland?

  And when police pull up his license, his photo matches that sketch pretty well. As you guys know, I don't typically dive into an offender's background unless it is pertinent to the story, which in this case, I think it is important to mention. So Din, as he goes by, so his name is Thomas, but he goes by Din. Wasn't exactly someone who lived under the radar. Back in 1996, he had a featured story written about him in the Seattle Times because he was, quote, "a child prodigy." Din, whose mother was a Vietnamese refugee and father was an American Boeing engineer, actually started learning computers at the age of three.

• 15:17Payton Moreland?

  And by the time he was 13 years old, he was already enrolled in Seattle's Pacific University, while also finishing in the top three of the Junior Olympics in fencing.

• 15:28Garrett Moreland?

  Oh.

• 15:29Payton Moreland?

  Thirteen.

• 15:30Garrett Moreland?

  Hmm.

• 15:31Payton Moreland?

  Din.

• 15:32Garrett Moreland?

  Interesting. I've always, nah, nevermind.

• 15:35Payton Moreland?

  Go ahead.

• 15:35Garrett Moreland?

  Okay, I've always just found fencing so interesting.

• 15:38Payton Moreland?

  Have you seen The Parent Trap?

• 15:39Garrett Moreland?

  You know, I know what fencing is. I just, it's just interesting. I think that they should change it up a bit. I think we go no armor, real swords.

• 15:49Garrett Moreland?

  Anyways, let's keep going.

• 15:50Payton Moreland?

  So after this, he then goes on to get a degree in electrical engineering from University of Washington. And by 20 years old, Din had started his own tech business.

• 16:00Garrett Moreland?

  Holy crap.

• 16:01Payton Moreland?

  An engineering company that specialized in building robotics called Vague Industries. In 2007, he met a successful dentist named Jennifer Palm at a seminar. And a year later, she and the 25-year-old Din tied the knot. All right, guys, we are getting into an ad and it is I Am Eight. Now, tell me if you have felt this headache that I'm about to describe. You want to start taking care of your body. You start looking into supplements. You start buying a ton of different supplements and then you learn the one you buy isn't actually good. So then you have to buy another one. And next thing you know, you have a cabinet full of supplements that you're not actually taking because who wants to take 35 pills in one day? Well, I Am Eight is here to rescue you.

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• 17:17Payton Moreland?

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• 17:47Speaker 04

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• 18:14Payton Moreland?

  Now, from the outside looking in, they seemed to be on a great path. They appeared to be madly in love, and both of them had a promising future, maybe even an early retirement if all went as planned. That is, if Din stayed out of trouble. See, Din actually had a run-in with the law a year before he met Jennifer, so back in 2006. That year, he was charged with burglary and first degree theft. And while I'm unclear of what the circumstances were, I know he was later acquitted of the charges. So it was only a matter of time, though, before Jennifer found herself pulled into her new husband's chaotic lifestyle. So now, fast forward to 2012. After the anonymous tip

• 18:56Payton Moreland?

  comes in, police set up a stakeout of Din's home. They don't immediately go to him, just to make sure they had the right guy. And after almost a week of watching the house, they find zero signs of that BMW coming or going. That is, until day seven, when the garage door opens one afternoon, just quick enough for police to catch a glimpse of what's inside the silver BMW.

• 19:22Payton Moreland?

  Now that they knew Din had owned that car, they were able to secure a search warrant. That same day, on September 21st, they knocked on the Bowman's front door, warrant in hand. Of course, they make a beeline for the garage. One of the first things they needed to do was inspect the BMW. And when they opened the passenger side door, they found there were still tiny pieces of glass on the interior there. And that the window had definitely been replaced recently. And not to mention, the garage reeks of paint. And the custom silver rims of his car, which had been listed as an identifying feature of this vehicle, had now been painted black.

• 20:07Payton Moreland?

  So, within hours, it's not just a search warrant police are after, they now have an arrest warrant too.

• 20:14Garrett Moreland?

  It just seems like it's gonna be open and shut, so, I don't know.

• 20:17Payton Moreland?

  Thomas Din Bowman is placed in handcuffs that same day.

• 20:21Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 20:21Payton Moreland?

  While his wife Jennifer is also being called down to the station for questioning. Now Din is held for hours, waiting for the police to finally come in and interrogate him. But in the meantime, footage captures him alone there. And all I gotta say, and sometimes we see this happen in interrogation footage, the guy does not look too stressed for someone who was just brought in as a suspect of murder charges.

• 20:46Garrett Moreland?

  I don't know the rules around it, because obviously they hold them for hours on purpose, right?

• 20:51Payton Moreland?

  To wear them down.

• 20:52Garrett Moreland?

  Make them anxious, wear them down. But if he were to say, I mean, I guess he's being held because he was arrested, so there's a warrant. But if he were to say, I want an attorney, or I want a lawyer, they just throw him back in the county jail for a little bit?

• 21:05Payton Moreland?

  Yep.

• 21:06Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 21:07Payton Moreland?

  He doesn't technically have to talk to them without a lawyer present?

• 21:09Garrett Moreland?

  I assume that's the case, I just-

• 21:11Payton Moreland?

  He's not free to leave because they have the arrest warrant.

• 21:14Garrett Moreland?

  Okay, got it, because it's also, that makes sense. Because sometimes like, the lawyers will come in and they'll be like, hey, we're going home.

• 21:21Payton Moreland?

  Yes, that's because there's no warrant for an arrest.

• 21:24Garrett Moreland?

  Got it, okay.

• 21:25Payton Moreland?

  So this guy is drinking coffee. He's eating snacks. In fact, he looks frustrated with how long he has to sit there and wait. At one point, he even tells an officer, he's annoyed with how long this is all taking, which you'd think this guy would be on his best behavior in a situation like this, especially if he's innocent and hoping to get out. He'd be like, hey, what's going on? Like, I didn't do this. Instead of being like, can we just get this over with?

• 21:50Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 21:51Payton Moreland?

  I will say Garrett and I were stuck in an airport a week ago, and I couldn't even eat snacks because I was so ready to get on the plane that was delayed. So I don't even know how this guy is eating and chilling after sitting there for that long.

• 22:03Garrett Moreland?

  This is true.

• 22:04Payton Moreland?

  So what Din didn't realize was the officers at this time weren't questioning him because they were questioning his wife, Jennifer. She seemed equally as cagey and weird about things. When detectives asked her if she had heard of any murders near her house over the last few weeks, she said, I'm not sure. Remember, they lived 10 blocks from the crime scene. In fact, she says, I'm not sure, in response to most of the questions that she's asked that day.

• 22:33Speaker 05

  Have you heard of any murders like within a few blocks of your house?

• 22:36Speaker 06

  I'm not sure. You're not sure? It's a yes or no question. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

• 22:46Payton Moreland?

  This goes on for nearly four hours. And oddly, Jennifer never asks for a lawyer or to speak with her husband. She does, however, act increasingly nervous as the interrogation continues. She stops making eye contact. She's shaking. She even agrees to hand over her purse when one of the detectives asks, which isn't a smart move for Jennifer.

• 23:07Garrett Moreland?

  I'm gonna be pretty thrown off if she's the one who did this.

• 23:11Payton Moreland?

  So her handing her purse over isn't a good move because she actually just told the police one thing that will prove to be a lie. She said that her husband's window had been smashed when they were on a recent trip to Portland, but they went to get it fixed immediately after stopping for lunch that day. Now, inside the purse, Jennifer has receipts, particularly one from a body shop that shows the car window was replaced around 7:09 PM the night after the murder.

• 23:46Garrett Moreland?

  This is exactly why I never ask for a receipt.

• 23:50Payton Moreland?

  Also, like you kept the receipt.

• 23:52Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, it's so dumb.

• 23:53Payton Moreland?

  Of you fixing the proof of the crime.

• 23:55Garrett Moreland?

  I'm glad, but.

• 23:57Payton Moreland?

  Right. So obviously, they didn't do it immediately after lunch, but this is just the tip of the iceberg. Because back at the house, detectives are about to uncover a lot more than just a few incriminating receipts. So after searching the garage that day, detectives also scoured the interior of the house. And what they find is, well, not a whole lot, meaning the couple has barely any furniture. Some rooms are pretty much empty. Their mattress is sitting on the floor of their bedroom, all of which is a bit odd and confusing to police, especially considering that Jennifer makes about $250,000 a year alone. But the devil is in the details, right?

• 24:38Garrett Moreland?

  Dang.

• 24:38Payton Moreland?

  And there are some pretty bizarre details in the kitchen that set off alarm bells for detectives. Like a few Post-It notes that have been left around, written from Jennifer to Din. One specifically that reads, quote, "To the best shooter in the wild, wild west. Bang, bang, XXOo."

• 24:58Garrett Moreland?

  You're lying. There is no way.

• 25:01Payton Moreland?

  Which like, okay.

• 25:02Garrett Moreland?

  There is no way we're doing that. That is so crazy. That blows my mind.

• 25:07Payton Moreland?

  Right?

• 25:08Garrett Moreland?

  Bang, bang.

• 25:09Payton Moreland?

  Bang, bang.

• 25:10Garrett Moreland?

  That's, that's insane.

• 25:12Payton Moreland?

  The best shooter, like, imagine the cop and the detectives walking in there and seeing this Post-It note on the fridge. And they're there on suspicion that this guy shot someone four times randomly. And it says, "To the best shooter in the wild, wild west, bang, bang."

• 25:29Garrett Moreland?

  Okay, I'd, I'd be like, alright.

• 25:31Payton Moreland?

  So not only does this suggest that Jennifer, if this note is about the murder, then Jennifer knows something about the shooting.

• 25:38Garrett Moreland?

  But I mean.

• 25:38Payton Moreland?

  And is lying.

• 25:39Garrett Moreland?

  Never mind.

• 25:40Payton Moreland?

  But if this note is also about the shooting, she seems to be encouraging it, like making fun of it, joking about it.

• 25:48Garrett Moreland?

  There's.

• 25:49Payton Moreland?

  I'm not done.

• 25:50Garrett Moreland?

  I was gonna say, there's only one thing they could say, there's only one excuse they could try to put it on. And I just don't think that would work. You know what I'm saying?

• 25:58Payton Moreland?

  She's just pregnant.

• 26:00Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, that's the only thing they could, they could pin it on. I also want to clarify, I'm not laughing about.

• 26:07Payton Moreland?

  The shooting.

• 26:08Garrett Moreland?

  I'm laughing about the note. That is extremely comical. I'm not laughing about the shootings. It has nothing to do with that part, right? That's separate right now. I'm laughing about how comical it is that you would write a note. It's you're an idiot. What an idiot. What an idiot.

• 26:21Payton Moreland?

  Also like sick.

• 26:23Garrett Moreland?

  It's pretty twisted, actually. Think about it.

• 26:26Payton Moreland?

  You're kind of a bad. I mean, yeah, obviously you're a bad person because you murdered someone, but now you're a really bad person for joking about it.

• 26:32Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, I think that's that's where we start to get to like the psychopathic behavior, you know?

• 26:38Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 26:38Garrett Moreland?

  Where like the feelings are just turned off and it's just straight like robot mode.

• 26:42Payton Moreland?

  Right. I do want to say the note becomes disturbing, even more disturbing as this search of their home continues because throughout the house, police find an arsenal of weapons and ammunition. However, a nine millimeter Glock, like the one that matched the bullets at the crime scene, that gun is nowhere in sight. So yes, Din is under arrest, but they still need more to build a solid case against this guy if charges are going to stick. And right now they don't have a ton. So they are hoping maybe they can get some sort of confession out of Thomas Din Bowman. Only he doesn't offer anything to detectives that day in the interrogation room. He just continues playing that tough guy role, the I'm annoyed by this act.

• 27:27Payton Moreland?

  No guilt, no fear, just frustration. And then he asks for his lawyer. So they figure, well, maybe we can catch him confessing some other way. His bail is set at $10 million, which they know he can't afford. So that means he's behind bars until his trial can begin. And that's when police start listening in on his phone calls to Jennifer from prison. Unfortunately, they don't get much out of them aside from a peek into their intimate bedroom talk.

• 27:56Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 27:57Speaker 07

  Bunny Bunny, how are you? I'm doing good. How's my little snuggle cake? I just wrote you an email. Yay.

• 28:06Payton Moreland?

  Lots of cutesy name calling. I miss you. I want to snuggle with you. So not much to take away there in terms of the investigation. But eventually, with the help of his lawyer, Din explains what happened that day with the Yancy. So he finally comes forward with his lawyer and he's like, okay, here's the story. And it's not what anyone expects. Din claimed that night he was headed towards the I-5 highway when he accidentally cut Yancy off in traffic. He said Yancy became so enraged that he yelled at Din, saying something along the lines of, you better learn how to drive that fancy car.

• 28:43Payton Moreland?

  Blah blah blah, or you're gonna get yourself effed up, blah blah blah.

• 28:46Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 28:46Payton Moreland?

  Then Din said Yancy threw a water bottle at his car and then followed Din onto the highway where the road rage escalated. So in Din's story so far, he's the innocent victim.

• 28:58Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 28:59Payton Moreland?

  Din said he tried to dodge Yancy by then getting off the highway, but Yancy followed him. And when the cars came to a stop at that red light at the intersection, Din claimed Yancy rolled down his window and grabbed a wine bottle, which he threw into Din's open convertible, hitting him in the back of the head. Then Din says he saw Yancy reach for something in the passenger seat, and that's when he realized he needed to defend himself. Afraid for his life, Din said he grabbed his gun first, fired those five shots into Yancy's car. The whole thing was self-defense.

• 29:35Garrett Moreland?

  Hmm. Yeah, that's a horrible argument.

• 29:38Payton Moreland?

  So of course, there's a lot of questions about Din's testimony, mainly because A, why didn't he offer this statement when he was initially questioned by police? And B, Yancy's friends and family said absolutely no way road rage was not in Yancy's nature. There's no way he would have started this. But this approach that Din's defense is putting together is actually an interesting play because they feel pretty confident that everyone on the jury will be able to relate to road rage.

• 30:05Garrett Moreland?

  Also, if there's any seed of doubt at all, he's gonna get off and there's no cameras or anything. So how do you prove all that?

• 30:15Payton Moreland?

  Right?

• 30:16Garrett Moreland?

  Or you can't, it's all, you can't prove.

• 30:18Payton Moreland?

  That's kind of why they were saying they needed a confession.

• 30:21Garrett Moreland?

  Uh, this just goes back to so many other thoughts I have about the legal system and attorneys. I mean, because the attorneys know that, I don't get this. I don't, attorneys out there, I.

• 30:33Payton Moreland?

  You say it every time.

• 30:34Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, but none of them will explain to me. My DMs are cold with attorneys. There's no attorneys in my DMs. So I think someone's right and someone's wrong.

• 30:45Payton Moreland?

  No one's defending themselves.

• 30:46Garrett Moreland?

  No one's defending.

• 30:46Payton Moreland?

  They're defense attorneys and they're not defending.

• 30:49Garrett Moreland?

  No, they're silent. There's crickets, absolute crickets in my DMs from you attorneys out there because this attorney knows that he's lying.

• 30:58Payton Moreland?

  They know they're defending a lie?

• 31:00Garrett Moreland?

  Yes.

• 31:01Payton Moreland?

  They're not gonna DM you and say, oh, we believe them.

• 31:04Garrett Moreland?

  Because is it illegal to defend a lie?

• 31:07Payton Moreland?

  No.

• 31:07Garrett Moreland?

  It's not?

• 31:08Payton Moreland?

  I mean, your client, it's illegal to, to testify and lie.

• 31:14Garrett Moreland?

  I feel like it's illegal to defend a lie, right?

• 31:17Payton Moreland?

  I don't think so. I think it's illegal if your client gets on.

• 31:19Garrett Moreland?

  You're telling me we can make stuff up in court and attorney can be like, yep. Yeah, that's, that's what happened.

• 31:25Payton Moreland?

  I mean, yeah, it happens all the time.

• 31:27Garrett Moreland?

  Exactly. My point, though, isn't it illegal? It happens, but is it not illegal?

• 31:31Payton Moreland?

  I don't know. I feel like obviously testifying in court, if someone on the stand lies, that's perjury. Can a lawyer lie? Yeah, they probably will just get interjected and proven wrong. But it's really not.

• 31:47Garrett Moreland?

  Like, how is that allowed? You know what I'm saying?

• 31:49Payton Moreland?

  I mean, all they do is lie. Both prosecutors and defense attorneys.

• 31:53Garrett Moreland?

  No, I agree. I agree. It happens on both sides, but I feel like it shouldn't be allowed. Anyways, sorry, we got off topic for a second. Feel free to shoot me a DM.

• 32:02Payton Moreland?

  Okay, so I'm actually, as Garrett and I have been watching these road rage things on Twitch every Thursday, and now I'm doing a case that the defense is road rage. I, I kinda did some digging when I was looking into this case. And here's some interesting things I found. AAA did a study back in the 1990s that found over the course of a seven-year period, again, this is the 1990s, there were 218 murders that happened as a result of road rage. 1990s, seven-year period, 218 murders because of road rage.

• 32:38Garrett Moreland?

  A lot.

• 32:39Payton Moreland?

  But there are other reports that state up to 1,500 injuries and deaths are traced to road rage in any given year. 1,500 people are hurt or killed in road rage incidents of almost every year. That's a lot.

• 32:56Garrett Moreland?

  That's a ton.

• 32:56Payton Moreland?

  So it does kind of make this concept a little scarier. Think about it. Every time you go for a drive, unless you live in the middle of nowhere, you have dozens of little interactions, maybe of which you take personal. And you never really know who these people are that you're driving next to, who you're flipping off, who you're cutting off. Plus, there's this weird anonymity we feel in our cars that kind of gives us extra courage in those situations where we just feel like we can do anything and say anything because we're behind our door.

• 33:26Garrett Moreland?

  Especially my drug.

• 33:27Payton Moreland?

  And when you put all of that together, psychologists actually have a name for it. It's called de-individuation, which basically means this loss of our individual accountability in group settings. And it leads us to some pretty wild things we wouldn't do in normal encounters if we were, say, waiting in a line at Starbucks or something. Oh, and get this, people are way less likely to act out in road rage if there's other people in the car with them because that anonymity is kind of taken away. So when you're alone, you're more likely to be rageful while driving than if there's people in your car with you. Think about how

• 34:08Payton Moreland?

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• 34:51Payton Moreland?

  Earnin would have been so nice for me to get access to the money I've already worked for and earned in between those pay periods.

• 35:01Garrett Moreland?

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• 35:29Payton Moreland?

  As you guys know, I was just at a hospital stay. And what do you think I wore the entire time after giving birth and taking care of my new baby?

• 35:39Garrett Moreland?

  I know.

• 35:40Payton Moreland?

  What?

• 35:41Garrett Moreland?

  Diapers.

• 35:43Payton Moreland?

  I wore my Skims sleep soft lounge sets, cotton fleece sets. Honestly, they are the most comfortable thing and I had to bring them to the hospital.

• 35:54Garrett Moreland?

  They're amazing. Skims is, Skims is the best. Come on.

• 35:57Payton Moreland?

  Ah, their sleep sets are just the perfect way they stay cool. They're such great quality. There's something about just having nice pajamas or loungewear that makes you feel put together, especially at a time like where I am in postpartum. You guys know how much we love Skims. Again, I have really been into their sleep soft lounge and cotton fleece sets. I got the cutest like chocolate fleece set that says Skims. It's really cute. I think I posted about it on my Instagram. So you have to go check it out. Shop my favorite loungewear and pajamas at skims.com. And after you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the dropdown menu that follows.

• 36:41Payton Moreland?

  Again, that's after you've already checked out. Please take the extra step of letting them know murder with my husband sent you. And if you're looking for the perfect gifts for everyone on your list, the Skims holiday shop is now open at skims.com. So Din's lawyers actually lean into this narrative. Everyone can sympathize with a little momentary road rage because the lawyers are going to say, well, everyone's done it. Or at least fearing for their lives if they aren't the ones who initiated it, right? So they argue fiercely that that's what happened to Din that day, that he didn't initiate this, he accidentally cut someone's off and he had to defend himself.

• 37:20Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 37:21Payton Moreland?

  But as detectives look further into Din's life, they realize there is so much more to this story. So let's start with the witnesses, or rather the lack thereof. Turns out, there were a few people that saw the shooting that day, only they didn't see anyone yelling. There were no reports of any bottles being thrown from one car to another. And when police asked Din, "Hey, what happened to that wine bottle that hit you in the head that he threw at you?" He says, "Oh, I threw it away after." Now, if this really was the smoking gun to Din's story, don't you think he would have held on to it to show police? Only he says he got rid of it because he didn't think the police would believe him. And he wasn't wrong, but there was more.

• 38:03Payton Moreland?

  When Yancy's body was found in his car, both of his hands, again, were firmly gripped on the steering wheel. If you're believing Din's story...

• 38:13Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, that would not be the case.

• 38:14Payton Moreland?

  That's not really the position he would be in. He said Yancy was reaching for something and that's why Din got scared and grabbed his gun and fired. And honestly, this detail about Yancy's hands being gripped on the steering wheel is so sad.

• 38:30Garrett Moreland?

  He was scared for his life.

• 38:32Payton Moreland?

  It's actually really, really devastating. And you also have to consider how Din acted in the hours after that accident. He fled the scene. This is not something someone might consider after defending themselves. But even worse, he went out to dinner with his wife that night. And that same day, he turned off his cellphone, then bought a new one in which he registered under a different name entirely. Peter Nguyen. And then that following morning, he used the same fake name when he went to get his windows replaced. I guess he even tried to convince one of his friends to trade cars with him for a little while. And then three weeks later, Din went to a tire store to buy brand new tires for his pretty newish car,

• 39:14Payton Moreland?

  which made sense considering the media had just released details about the tire tracks left at the scene of the crime. And when they cracked into Din's computer, they found a ton of new evidence that sort of changed the entire narrative. Okay. Not only do they realize that Din is obsessed with James Bond...

• 39:34Payton Moreland?

  Turns out Din had been downloading books and articles for years on how to kill someone and get away with it. He had searched for how to delete his internet history before reading one document called "How to Arrest Proof Yourself." And he had watched dozens of videos that showed how to kill someone in a drive-by shooting the exact same way

• 39:55Garrett Moreland?

  Oh my gosh.

• 39:56Payton Moreland?

  he killed the Nancy Noel. So, we're sitting here thinking this is a road rage incident, right? You get so mad, you can't control it.

• 40:03Garrett Moreland?

  He just wanted to kill somebody.

• 40:05Payton Moreland?

  Premeditated if you're looking.

• 40:08Garrett Moreland?

  He literally just wanted to kill somebody.

• 40:10Payton Moreland?

  It's premeditated if you're looking at his computer history.

• 40:14Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 40:14Payton Moreland?

  This was all before that.

• 40:16Garrett Moreland?

  And it makes sense now why, okay, timeout, because it also gets even crazier because it makes sense why, why his wife wrote what she wrote because she knew that he was into that and she apparently was into that as well.

• 40:30Payton Moreland?

  So get this, they find even more when they went through Din's work computer. His hard drive had two books titled Murder Incorporated and The Death Dealer's Manual, along with other documents titled Forensic Gunshot Residue Analysis, Chemical Analysis of Firearms, Ammunition and Gunshot Residue, Gunshot Wounds, Practical Aspects of Firearms, Ballistics, and Forensic Techniques. Detectives realized Din was studying how to murder somebody, that it didn't matter who it was, that he probably didn't even get up that morning on August 31st and think, "Today's the day I'm gonna do it." But that evening, an opportunity presented

• 41:11Payton Moreland?

  itself to Din, and Nancy was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Oh, and by the way, there was something else police found at Din's office, the murder weapon, or at least part of it. Inside a storage container was the slide from the Glock that he had used at the crime scene, and it matched perfectly with the bullets that had been collected. So now we have a pretty, like, strong piece of evidence. So when it came time for Din's trial to begin on November 19th, 2014, he was facing first-degree murder charges. By that point, though, a lot of the cockiness detectives saw in the interrogation room

• 41:52Payton Moreland?

  two years earlier had worn off. When Din appeared before the jury, he kind of looked more like a little schoolboy. His defense attorneys had made him look clean cut, like with his tail tucked between his legs. He suddenly seemed remorseful. Both of his parents were in the courtroom that day while his wife Jennifer was nowhere to be found.

• 42:13Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 42:14Payton Moreland?

  But Din stuck to the story his defense had helped him draft up, that he believed Yancey Noll was going to kill him that day if he didn't pull the trigger first. He told the jury, quote, "I felt like it was just this crazy bad dream and I was running from a monster." He said he didn't plan to kill Yancey. He just wanted to injure him so he could escape. That he sort of blacked out and when he opened his eyes and looked down, he realized the gun was in his hand and that's when he stepped on the gas and fled. He later threw away the wine bottle and the water bottle, any shred of evidence that his story was true because again, he didn't think the police would believe him anyway. But when the prosecution brought up the giant archive of evidence from Din's computers, proof that

• 42:59Payton Moreland?

  this had probably been premeditated, well Din said he didn't remember ever downloading any of it, let alone reading it. And his defense argued there was no way to prove he had ever read or watched any of that. Which is a wild explanation from a defense team, especially because Din hired the same lawyers that represented Ted Bundy.

• 43:18Garrett Moreland?

  Interesting. Okay.

• 43:20Payton Moreland?

  Though I guess they didn't do much in the way of getting him acquitted either. While they thought Din's self-defense in a moment of road rage would be relatable to the jury, it turns out the prosecution's motive resonated with the jury a lot more. They argued Din didn't have motive at all, only a desire to kill someone. There was no road rage here to be found. It didn't matter who, it didn't matter when. Thomas Din found his victim that day and he used the excuse of road rage to hide behind his morbid curiosity he'd fulfilled. So basically the prosecutors get up and they're like, "Hey, if you've had road rage, great. Din didn't even have road rage."

• 44:00Garrett Moreland?

  He just wanted to-

• 44:01Payton Moreland?

  He just wanted to murder someone. So don't let them get in your head about this. So on December 9th, 2014- Din's 32nd birthday? The jurors left the courtroom to deliberate and three days later they returned. Thomas Din Bowman was guilty of first degree murder. Three weeks later, he'd be back in court for his sentencing. Now Din's mother begged the judge to sentence her instead. She told the judge, quote, "Our son's acts are our fault. My husband and I, we provided and allowed him to learn about guns for self-protection. I please ask you to allow myself to substitute any punishment by placing myself in Din's role." But then, when it came time for him to read a statement to the judge, all he talked about was how frustrated he was that the jury didn't believe his story.

• 44:46Payton Moreland?

  His lawyer had to do Din's begging and pleading for him, saying Din had shown guilt and remorse while serving time in prison. He'd even attempted suicide in there. But the judge didn't believe there was any real remorse in Thomas Din Bowman. They handed down a 29-year sentence instead. And as for Jennifer Bowman, the wife, the state attorney chose not to pursue charges for her knowledge of or connection to the crime. Since then, she's actually changed her name, gotten a new job, and divorced Din.

• 45:18Garrett Moreland?

  I'm sure she has changed her name.

• 45:20Payton Moreland?

  Meanwhile, Thomas Din Bowman, a child prodigy who once had a world of possibilities ahead of him, now rots away in a jail cell in Clallum County, Washington.

• 45:33Garrett Moreland?

  You can't run away, Miss Bang Bang.

• 45:36Payton Moreland?

  Here's the thing, like, how devastating for Yancy's family, for Yancy, I mean, from all, according to all sources.

• 45:47Garrett Moreland?

  Boy, this is so random.

• 45:48Payton Moreland?

  Yancy was just a guy who loved life. Like, he had a fiance, he was about to get married, he was in his 40s. He spent every weekend just loving adventure. Then he went to work and he worked hard and he dies because Din just wants to kill somebody?

• 46:05Garrett Moreland?

  He's driving, he's literally just driving.

• 46:06Payton Moreland?

  Both hands on the steering wheel. It's heartbreaking and it pisses me off.

• 46:14Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, I mean, 100%.

• 46:17Payton Moreland?

  I think I'm just starting to get real pissed off at these true crime stories.

• 46:20Garrett Moreland?

  How I feel. This is why I never mind another podcast, another time.

• 46:24Payton Moreland?

  It's just senseless.

• 46:26Garrett Moreland?

  No, I mean, most murder. Okay, I guess not most murder. I mean, murder is a senseless and selfish act in general.

• 46:34Payton Moreland?

  But when it's random.

• 46:35Garrett Moreland?

  But I guess when it's, um, right, we cover cases where it's like husband and wife or, I don't know, when it's, obviously, those are all horrible, um, but you can kind of, I guess, wrap your mind around what's going on, if that makes sense.

• 46:49Payton Moreland?

  In the way that the defense attorney was trying to make us believe in road rage. Hey, we've all been there. You've been mad at your husband before. You've been mad at your wife before.

• 46:57Garrett Moreland?

  Not saying.

• 46:58Payton Moreland?

  You should ever kill them.

• 46:59Garrett Moreland?

  Like those levels are insane.

• 47:01Payton Moreland?

  Psychologically, it's easier to understand.

• 47:03Garrett Moreland?

  Correct. That's what I'm trying to say with this one. Driving home, random, some random person's like, hey, I feel like killing a random person. Bang, bang. I'm going, I'm on my way home. I just killed someone. Wow, that felt so good.

• 47:15Payton Moreland?

  Psychologically, there is no piece of any of us who can relate or comprehend that. We can't comprehend.

• 47:22Garrett Moreland?

  And if you can relate and you're listening to the podcast, we've got other issues going on.

• 47:26Payton Moreland?

  You need to call a hotline and then go the correct steps after that.

• 47:32Garrett Moreland?

  Turn yourself in and never leave prison.

• 47:34Payton Moreland?

  All right, you guys, and that is the case of Yancy Noll. Please take today to think about Yancy and his family members who suffered at the hand of this senseless act. And we will see you next time with another episode. I love it.

• 47:49Garrett Moreland?

  And I hate it.

• 47:50Payton Moreland?

  Goodbye.

• 47:59Speaker 04

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