Peter Schiff on Gold’s Dominance Over the S&P and the Plot to Stop You From Noticing

Gold has so dramatically outperformed the S&P this century that you’d think CNBC would be recommending it to investors. But they’re not. Peter Schiff explains why. (00:00) Why Schiff Decided to Start Buying Gold (10:45) You're Being Lied to About Inflation (23:39) How the Government Secretly Rigs the Economy (25:25) The Unemployment Rate Is Much Higher Than You Think (43:50) Crypto vs. Gold Paid partnerships with: Black Rifle Coffee: Promo code "Tucker" for 30% off at https://blackriflecoffee.com Dose: Daily supplements for the systems that support you. Visit https://dosedaily.co/tucker and use code TUCKER for 35% off. Battalion Metals: Shop fair-priced gold and silver. Gain clarity and confidence in your financial future at https://battalionmetals.com/tucker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:32Tucker Carlson?

  Peter, thank you for doing this. So when did you personally first start buying gold, physical gold?

• 0:38Speaker 02

  Well, you know, ironically, the first time I bought gold was when I got bar mitzvahed. That's how, this was when I was 13 years old.

• 0:45Tucker Carlson?

  Wow.

• 0:45Speaker 02

  And, you know, so this is in the 70s, when the, you know, the original gold bull market. And so I got my bar mitzvah money. And because of my father, I, you know, I bought gold. And I ended up selling it, coincidentally, near the highs in 1980. Because that's because gold went from $35 an ounce in 1970 to 850 in 1980. So in the middle of that run, I took my bar mitzvah money, because I probably got bar mitzvahed in 1975, 76. And I got, took my bar mitzvah money, and I bought gold. And then I sold it to buy my first car, which I was a senior in high school.

• 1:25Tucker Carlson?

  What kind of car?

• 1:26Speaker 02

  It was an MGB convertible.

• 1:28Tucker Carlson?

  Nice.

• 1:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, so although it broke down all the time. And I didn't, I bought it. It was a stick shift. I didn't even know how to drive a stick. But I wanted that car. So I had to figure it out as I was going along. So I happened to get out of gold, you know, near the highs. Because then gold went into a 20-year bear market. From 1980, when gold hit 800, it was, you know, bottomed out at 250 in 2000, 1999, 2000.

• 2:00Speaker 02

  But that's about when I started recommending it. So I got into the brokerage business in the 1990s and I was a stockbroker. And but I, you know, I also wanted my clients to own gold. I didn't, I wasn't in the gold business at the time, but I believed that everybody should have, you know, some of their portfolio in gold. And so that's when I started recommending it. And so it's outperformed by a pretty big margin. You know, the S and P 500 Dow Jones, you know, going back to the beginning of this century, right? 2000, 2001. If you were to

• 2:40Speaker 02

  price the Dow in terms of gold, it's down about 70%. And Against gold? Yeah. I mean, so there's an illusion that, oh, you know, we have all this prosperity because in the year 2000, the Dow was about 10,000 and now it's almost 50,000. Right? So that's a big gain when you price it in dollars that have lost a lot of their purchasing power. But when you price it in gold and realize that hey, gold was 300 back then, and now it's 4300, right? The gold, it took, I think, 45 ounces of gold to buy the Dow. And I forget what it is

• 3:21Speaker 02

  now, maybe 16 or 13, you know, it's, you can buy a lot more of the Dow now than you could back then. So what that shows you is that the gain in the stock market is inflation. It's not real value that's been created in the market. We've just destroyed the value of the currency that we use to price things in. Right. And so you need more dollars to buy stocks, but you don't need more gold. You could buy stocks with a lot less gold because gold is real money. Government can't just create gold. They can't create inflation and create gold out of thin air like they do Federal Reserve notes, paper dollars. You know, originally, the dollar in 1792

• 4:06Speaker 02

  Was defined as a weight of gold. I mean, that's really what the dollar was. It was a specific quantity of gold or silver. And, you know, for a long time, you know, till 1913, when we got to Federal Reserve, we were pretty much just using gold and silver as money. And even when the Federal Reserve was created, all the Federal Reserve notes were redeemable in lawful money and gold. And, and gold was money up until 1971. And even though Americans couldn't, you know, redeem their Federal Reserve notes, which we call dollars, they couldn't redeem them for gold. Foreign, foreign governments could. And foreign governments held a lot of gold as dollars as a reserve. But they did that

• 4:47Speaker 02

  because they knew that those dollars were not only backed by gold, but convertible on demand in gold. And so, you know, we were on a gold standard even through the dollar up until 1971. But once, you know, once we defaulted and the US government, you know, reneged on its commitments to pay, to pay gold for its notes, that's when the real inflation started. That's when we really started printing a lot of money. And that's why you had the big price increases of the 1970s. You know, it, it, and it wasn't, you know, the Arabs that were just, you know, jacking up their oil prices because oil went from $3 a barrel to $40 a barrel. But it wasn't that oil was getting more expensive. It's just that we used to pay for our oil with gold, and we started paying for it with

• 5:31Speaker 02

  paper. But all that money, we printed it, you know, in the 60s, you know, for the war on poverty, the Great Society, the Vietnam War, we ran these big deficits, which, you know, were small by today's standards, but they were big back then. And they were financed with inflation, and we saw the consequences in the 1970s. And we may have had a real dollar crisis, because the dollar lost about two thirds of its value during that decade against other currencies, like the Swiss franc, the euro, the Japanese yen. But when Reagan came in and, you know, we had Volcker in 1980, and interest rates went up to 20%. And we really had some substantial reforms in our tax system, and we created a lot more

• 6:16Speaker 02

  confidence in our economy. We kind of stopped the dollar's decline at that point.

• 6:23Speaker 02

  But now I think we're on the verge of a much bigger crisis because I think that this time around, it's not going to be the US going off the gold standard. It's going to be the world going off the dollar standard. And you really have to understand the degree to which the US has used the dollar and its reserve status as a crutch. And our entire way of life as Americans has been supported by the idea that we could just create dollars out of thin air and then use those dollars to buy what the rest of the world produces. We have these huge trade deficits now.

• 7:05Speaker 02

  In fact, Donald Trump used to talk about the trade deficits a lot as being the problem. They're a consequence of the problem. They're not the problem per se. But what enables these huge trade deficits, we have over a trillion dollar a year trade deficit, is the world is willing to accept the money that we print for the goods that they produce. And when you produce goods, you need a lot of resources. You need land labor capital, you need factories, you need supply chain, you need raw materials, you need workers. Energy. And you don't need anything just to create money out of thin air. The Fed just adds zeros right on a computer.

• 7:46Speaker 02

  And so we're able to create dollars that the world wants and we get all their stuff. We didn't have to produce it. Then the world takes the dollars that they earn from us and they buy stocks, they buy real estate, they buy our bonds. And so as a result, our asset prices have gone up and goods prices have stayed down and interest rates have been relatively low because we're able to borrow what the rest of the world saves, even though we don't save very much ourselves and we don't produce very much. We get the benefit of all these goods that are coming in and we get all the foreign savings that are financing our spending. And I think all of that is about to change.

• 8:28Speaker 02

  I think that, you know, when Donald Trump talked about Liberation Day, ironically, it was the rest of the world that is going to be liberated from the burden of having to support the US economy. When Trump says that the world has been screwing us over and ripping us off, he's got it backwards. We've been screwing them over because we've been getting their stuff and all we do is export our inflation. They get our paper. We get things that make our lives better and they get our IOUs. And then, you know, they use our IOUs to buy up our financial assets. But I think this is all changing. And I think what we're seeing now in the price of gold, where it's finally broken out of its consolidation.

• 9:10Speaker 02

  Because after gold went from 300, 250, 300 to 1900, right? That was a 10-year move. It went sideways from 2011 to 2024. And it really broke out at the beginning of last year. And it's more than doubled since then. Silver has finally broken out. Silver had a double top at around 50 from 1980 to 2011. And it just broke out this year. Gold, you know, broke out last year. But now you're seeing this movement out of dollars. Foreign central banks have been huge buyers of gold because they've been moving away from the dollar. They've been divesting themselves of dollars and buying gold instead.

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• 11:12Speaker 03

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• 13:05Tucker Carlson?

  What do we know about who's buying it? Which central banks?

• 13:08Speaker 02

  Well, the major central banks, other than, you know, the West, you know, you're talking about in Russia and India and China, and even smaller ones, you know, Poland or various countries are buying, are buying gold. And they're buying gold because they want to get out of dollars. And in fact, you know, one of the things that, that happened to really cause this to happen in a bigger way was when Biden was president and he sanctioned Russia. And in sanctioning them, they basically took away a lot of their dollar reserves that they had entrusted in dollars. And we basically pulled the rug out from under them. We sent a message to the rest of the world that you could be next.

• 13:51Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 13:51Speaker 02

  That, you know, if you hold your reserves in dollars, you're vulnerable.

• 13:55Tucker Carlson?

  Unreliable store of value.

• 13:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it wouldn't even a store of value, but as a reserve asset. And so that was a political impetus. But the real reason for getting out of the dollar is that we're going to destroy its value. We have these runaway deficit spending that is the source of all the inflation that we have. It's the Fed monetizing the debt that the government is creating. A lot of people don't know what inflation is. They just think it's prices going up because that's what the governments tell them or some economists tell them. But prices going up are a consequence of inflation. They're not inflation. Inflation is an expansion of the supply of money and credit. And when you expand money, you expand credit, right?

• 14:40Speaker 02

  That bids up prices. And so as a result of inflation, prices go up. Right? The root of the word inflate means to expand. Right? Prices don't expand. They go up, they go down. And if you get an old dictionary, get an old Webster's dictionary, even as, even as late as the eighties, and you look up inflation, that's exactly what it says, an expansion of the money supply. Right? But the government kind of redefined inflation because if you define it properly, well, it's pretty obvious who causes it.

• 15:09Tucker Carlson?

  Right. Good point. Anyone increasing the money supply.

• 15:13Speaker 02

  Right. But if you change the definition to rising prices, now the public blames whoever it is that's raising the prices. Right? That, that's where it's coming from. And so the government is able to blame the private sector, whether it's corporations or workers, uh, for prices going up, when they're simply raising prices in response to inflation. And of course, sometimes inflation just doesn't just cause prices to go up, it prevents them from going down. See, in a free market economy, in a capitalist economy, the natural tendency for prices is to go down. Right? If you look at the CPI in 1900.

• 15:52Tucker Carlson?

  Because of efficiencies?

• 15:53Speaker 02

  Yes. If you look at the CPI in 1900 and you look at it in 1800, it was down by 50%. So for a hundred years in America, prices went down. And during that time, we had the industrial revolution. We had, we had the most rapid period of economic growth in the history of America, which was after the Civil War and into the early 1900s. All the time, prices were coming down. Today, the Federal Reserve says that we need to have 2% inflation. Right? Prices have to go up 2% a year. Why? I mean, why does the cost of living have to go up? Why can't it go down? Or at least remain the same?

• 16:28Tucker Carlson?

  And, and what is the answer to that? What's the rationale for that?

• 16:31Speaker 02

  Well, they have a bunch of BS explanations, and it's all to justify the fact that the government wants inflation. It's not that it's good for us. The government needs it. It's, you know, it's the way the government, you know, raises revenue and, and repudiates its debts. But they have a couple of things that they say. One of the things they say is, well, If prices are, were going down, nobody would buy anything, right? People would just be constantly waiting for lower prices and so nobody would buy. And that's the number one reason they say that prices have to go up and that's all.

• 17:02Tucker Carlson?

  No one would buy if prices were going down?

• 17:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's how ridiculous it is.

• 17:05Tucker Carlson?

  Because everyone be waiting for the bottom to buy a new dishwasher?

• 17:08Speaker 02

  Supposedly, supposedly, but of course, we all have cell phones. If that were the case, nobody would ever buy a cell phone or a television set or a computer.

• 17:17Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 17:17Speaker 02

  Prices go down, but also like if I'm hungry, am I going to wait a year to eat? Because I think the food is going to be 2% cheaper.

• 17:25Tucker Carlson?

  If you don't have a dryer, are you going to wait a year? No, of course not, right?

• 17:28Speaker 02

  You buy things, they forget that there is a value to having something today versus having to wait.

• 17:34Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 17:35Speaker 02

  The, the only reason.

• 17:36Tucker Carlson?

  Amazon is, is based on that idea.

• 17:37Speaker 02

  Yes, the only reason that you don't buy something now, because you want to lower prices, because you can't afford it. And so you're hoping that the price will go down and then you'll be able to buy it, which is what the free market does. So it's nonsense to say that, you know, we're, we're not going to buy, you know? I mean, would it be a disaster if food got cheaper? If healthcare got cheaper? If energy got cheaper? If clothing got cheaper? If everything you needed was less expensive? Why does the Fed have to prevent that from happening? Why is that such a horrible thing?

• 18:10Tucker Carlson?

  Are you, I'm not, I'm not questioning your knowledge, which is obvi-, it's on display. But is that actually their rationale?

• 18:18Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, it is. I'm not making this up.

• 18:19Tucker Carlson?

  That's so deranged that I have trouble believing it.

• 18:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I know. That's how stupid they think we are. And then the other thing.

• 18:25Tucker Carlson?

  That we can't, we need inflation because we can't let prices of services and consumer goods get too low because people won't buy them?

• 18:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, people will stop buying. We'll sit on our hands indefinitely, waiting for a better deal. Like, you know.

• 18:36Tucker Carlson?

  And the Fed, the Federal Reserve says that?

• 18:37Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, they believe that. Then the other thing they think is that businesses can't make money if prices aren't rising. Which is also not true. They actually make more money when prices are falling. Because what's important for a business is not the price that they charge.

• 18:54Tucker Carlson?

  No, it's the spread between what they paid and what they sold for.

• 18:56Speaker 02

  Exactly. It's the margin. And if prices are falling, right?

• 19:00Tucker Carlson?

  Even I know that.

• 19:01Speaker 02

  Yes, that's because you didn't go and get a degree in economics at a US university. Then you wouldn't know anything. You would have been brainwashed. This is what they teach.

• 19:09Tucker Carlson?

  But they actually say that?

• 19:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 19:10Tucker Carlson?

  Businesses don't make money unless the prices keep rising?

• 19:13Speaker 02

  Yes. They don't really. But the reality is you actually make more money when prices are going down. Because you sell more. You have more volume.

• 19:20Tucker Carlson?

  Ask any restaurant owner right now, a steak is 80 bucks. It cost 80 bucks at the restaurant I ate at last night. It's not even a high-tone restaurant. Because meat is so expensive right now.

• 19:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, look.

• 19:29Tucker Carlson?

  And they're making less money because who can pay 80 bucks for a steak?

• 19:33Speaker 02

  Yes. If you have any common sense, you can't be an economist at the Federal Reserve. Or for the US government. So they don't understand. But the government wants to create inflation. They create inflation. And so quantitative easing, right? Which was the term they introduced after the 2008 financial crisis. That's just a euphemism for inflation. What is quantitative easing? The government, the Federal Reserve prints money and buys government debt, right? Monetizing debt. That's pure inflation. They don't like to call inflation inflation because, you know, the public doesn't like inflation. So they called it quantitative easing. But we created a lot of inflation following the 2008 financial crisis. And a lot of that inflation ended up going into financial assets.

• 20:16Speaker 02

  But if it wasn't for all the inflation the government created, prices would have come down following the 2008.

• 20:21Tucker Carlson?

  Can you be more specific when you say that inflation went into assets? What does that, what does that mean?

• 20:25Speaker 02

  Well, stocks. So the money, like, so we create money, we create credit. But where does it go, right? And if it goes into the stock market, if it goes into the real estate market, it's bidding up those asset prices.

• 20:37Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 20:37Speaker 02

  And so a lot of-

• 20:38Tucker Carlson?

  No one wants to hold dollars like you want to put into something.

• 20:41Speaker 02

  Right. But people don't look at asset prices rising. And they don't, they don't, they don't think that's a bad thing. Because people think that they're getting richer because prices are going up. But it's really distorting the economy. You don't want prices to go up. Because we print a lot of money. You want stock price to go up because the companies are inherently more valuable. Because they're generating more earnings and their stock prices higher because they're worth more because they're earning more. You don't want just the price to go up because there's so much cash that's that's bidding it up, but that's really what's been happening. And that's why when you look at prices from the terms of gold, you can see that real prices are falling. But I wanted to get to why we had this big spike in inflation under Biden.

• 21:25Speaker 02

  So when we got COVID in in in 2020, the government basically implemented the most inflationary combination of monetary and fiscal policy I'd ever seen. And I I called it out on my podcast at the time. When everybody was swearing, oh, deflation. And I was like, look, this is massive inflation that's coming. So when COVID hit, we shut down the economy. We told people, don't go to work, stay at home, don't produce anything.

• 21:57Speaker 02

  But then we said, but don't stop shopping. So everyone's going to get a bunch of money. We had the the paycheck protection. We had these enhanced unemployment benefits. We ran massive deficits. The Fed printed money like crazy, right? We doubled the Fed's balance sheet for like four trillion to eight trillion. Right? Everybody stayed home and and got money to spend. So we had all this money to spend, but we weren't making anything. And and so I knew that the consequence of that was going to be soaring prices. Now inflation, right? The expansion of money supply always acts with a lag, right? If I create a bunch of money today, you're not going to see it tomorrow, you know, at the supermarket or at, you know, at Walmart.

• 22:38Speaker 02

  There's a little bit of time. It could take six months. It could take a year before you really start to see the effect of all that inflation in retail prices. So what happened was, if you look at the CPI in the final year of the Trump presidency, the last three or four months, it really started to shoot up. And it continued for the first few months of the Biden presidency before Biden's policies had ever come into effect, before the first stimulus check was put in the mail. And that inflation continued. So all the CPI was up 9.1% during Biden's first year,

• 23:20Speaker 02

  his first term. That was all Trump and on Trump and the Congress under Trump. Because all the money that was created, that resulted in those price increases was created before Biden got into office. Had Trump been reelected, it would have been the same thing, right? We would have had just as high a move in CPI had Trump won, right? So it's not because we elected Biden, right? That it was already baked in the cake. And the main reason that Trump didn't get reelected, whether or not you want to think it was rigged or not, the main reason was that Trump got elected promising to make things better. And at the end of his first term, they were worse. Because all Trump really

• 24:01Speaker 02

  did was continue the failed policies of Obama. And so he promised-

• 24:07Tucker Carlson?

  In what area?

• 24:08Speaker 02

  In all areas.

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• 26:28Speaker 02

  I mean, government continued to get bigger under Trump. Deficits continued to get bigger. We continued to print more money. We didn't have the real structural reforms that we needed to make America great again. We just kept blowing more air into the bubble. And so, the inflation rates as measured by CPI. Remember, the CPI is a very flawed way to measure prices.

• 26:54Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 26:54Speaker 02

  In the 1990s, they had something called-

• 26:56Tucker Carlson?

  Consumer Price Index.

• 26:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:57Tucker Carlson?

  Tell me why it's flawed.

• 26:59Speaker 02

  Well, so in the 1990s, the government decided that the CPI was overstating how much prices were going up. Now, that was probably a lie, but the government said, we need to recalculate it. We need to figure out a better way to measure prices. So they made drastic changes to the methodology for calculating the CPI.

• 27:18Speaker 02

  And they've done the same thing for unemployment, too. The government constantly changes how they measure.

• 27:22Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I've noticed.

• 27:23Speaker 02

  Right? So today.

• 27:23Tucker Carlson?

  Unemployment doesn't measure how many people are unemployed.

• 27:25Speaker 02

  No, not even close.

• 27:26Tucker Carlson?

  I know.

• 27:27Speaker 02

  So, so in order to see what prices are doing, you pretty much have to double whatever the government says. I mean, I did a.

• 27:35Tucker Carlson?

  But tell us what the changes are that they made to make it.

• 27:37Speaker 02

  Well, they introduced all kinds of substitution, hedonics, just, you know, they, they, they make changes to the basket. Like, I don't even know, like, in 2013, I just, you know, I did a YouTube video, it's a long time ago, because I remember looking at the CPI, and according to the government, over a 10-year period, newspaper and magazine prices were up by 30%. And I remember thinking, I don't know, I think they're up more than that. So I went on the internet, and I, and I took the 20 most popular newspapers and magazines in 2013, and I looked at what the prices were, because it's just written right there on the cover, it's not hard to see. And then I went and I got photographs on the internet

• 28:22Speaker 02

  of the exact same newspapers and magazines from 10 years earlier, and I looked at the prices, and I just compared them. And the actual increase was 130%. So, who knows how you put 130% in and only 30% comes out? That is the magic of the CPI. So, you know.

• 28:41Tucker Carlson?

  Well, that's just, that's lying.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, that's what they do. I mean, unemployment, the way they measure unemployment now, they, they used to, when they measured unemployment, the official rate. So when they go back and they say, hey, unemployment's not as bad as it was in the 70s, of course, it's actually worse if we measured it the way we measured it then. Because back then, if you were, if you were part-time, had a part-time job, but you were looking for a full-time job, you were still unemployed. And now you don't count, right? If you're, if you're, if you're, you could be, you can be working one, one hour a week, and you're not unemployed anymore. Even if you spend the rest of the week looking for work, you're still not unemployed. You used to be unemployed.

• 29:25Speaker 02

  If you've stopped looking for work because you can't find a job and you're just tired of looking, you really want one, but you're just not looking because you're convinced there is no job for you, you used to be counted as unemployed. Today, they say, well, you're discouraged, we're not going to count you. So if you give up looking for work, but you don't have a job, you're no longer unemployed. But back in the seventies and eighties, you were still unemployed. So we've basically taken so many unemployed people, and we've decided that we're not going to count them as being unemployed. That's the reason that unemployment is so low, because we're not counting all these people. If we still measured unemployment now, the way we did in the seventies and eighties, the official unemployment rate would be well over 10%. And the inflation rate would be, you know, at least double what they claim.

• 30:10Speaker 02

  And Donald Trump, ironically enough, when Donald Trump ran for office the first time, he said this, if you remember, he kept saying, don't believe these government numbers, they're fake, unemployment is a lot higher, right? But once he became president, then he told everybody the numbers were real, because he wanted people to believe he was doing a great job. And so he pointed to the same government numbers that he said were fake when he was trying to get elected. All of a sudden, they were real, when he wanted to use those same fake numbers to pretend that the economy was doing well, when it wasn't doing well. So, so the big beautiful bill was the worst thing that we've done under Trump, because

• 30:51Speaker 02

  the big beautiful bill not only preserved all the deficit spending under Biden, but it expanded it, it made it worse, right? We made the deficits even worse by increasing government spending and, and through tax cuts. And so now we're going to have even bigger deficits, and the Fed is going to be monetizing those deficits. Money supply, you know, after-

• 31:15Tucker Carlson?

  What does it mean to monetize a deficit?

• 31:17Speaker 02

  It just buys, prints money and buys the bonds. And in fact, just last week, the Fed- Basically said, we're going back to quantitative easing without saying it because they don't want to admit it, but they announced, you know, they were doing quantitative tightening, right? They were shrinking their balance sheet because the balance sheet blew up, uh, you know, after the financial crisis and then after COVID. And so the Fed was reducing, shrinking the balance sheet and they stopped in December, just this month, but now they restarted expanding it again. They're now printing money to buy up, um, treasuries in order to suppress interest rates. But, you know, the, the underlying problem with the US economy has been for decades now,

• 32:01Speaker 02

  interest rates are too low, right? Everybody says, oh, we need lower interest rates. We need lower interest rates. We actually need higher interest rates. The reason our economy is so screwed up is because interest rates have been too low. That's why nobody saves because, you know, that you, you don't have a return on savings and everybody is going into debt. We have record debt in the government, record debt in the corporate sector, record, record debt in households, uh, all because the Fed has kept interest rates too low and, and, and they've done that to, you know, keep this bubble economy going. In fact, that's the real reason when the Fed started hiking rates, the reason it stopped hiking rates wasn't because they finished the job and they, they beat inflation. It was because the banks started to fail. You had several banks that went under because of higher rates,

• 32:46Speaker 02

  which was another thing that I, I predicted, just like I predicted the 2008 financial crisis. I predicted that, uh, the Fed was set it sowing the stage of another crisis by keeping interest rates so low because the banks were loading up on low yielding, long-term mortgages and government debt. And everybody thought this was great. You know, people could go out and borrow, buy a house and they can borrow money at three and four percent. But I was pointing out, well, what happens to the lenders who own all that paper when interest rates eventually go up and they're stuck with this long-term, uh, debt where they're collecting three or four percent, but they're now they're, they're cost of funds are five percent and they're getting killed. And I said exactly what's happening with the housing market now.

• 33:31Speaker 02

  You have a situation where, you know, the Fed is inflating.

• 33:34Tucker Carlson?

  created a housing bubble bigger than the one that popped in 2007 because they kept interest rates so low and people were able to borrow money to bid up home prices. But now that mortgage rates are not rock bottom anymore, they're still not high. They're still low by historic standards. They're just not as low as they were, right? 7% mortgage is still pretty cheap. But you can't afford to buy a home at a 7% mortgage that was priced for a 3% mortgage. And so now you have a situation where real estate prices have to fall. Things around the world are moving so fast right now, it's impossible to keep up with all of the changes. But we do know that when those changes happen, markets change too.

• 34:16Tucker Carlson?

  And nothing changes faster than the price of precious metals, gold and silver. It just shifts in an instant because it is a reaction to and against what's happening in the world. So, timing is essential. If you're thinking about adding precious metals, and you definitely should, we do, you need to know when prices are going to move and why they're moving. And Battalion Metals makes that all really simple. You can buy the dip when it happens. Try calling your broker in the public equities market. No, this is a new world and Battalion makes it a transparent and honest world. There's no fraud here at all. We were founded to fight fraud. So, if you want real-time alerts sent directly to your inbox when gold and silver prices

• 35:01Tucker Carlson?

  move, go to battalionmetals.com/alerts. Markets move fast, stay ahead of them. So, it's battalionmetals.com/alerts.

• 35:13Speaker 00

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• 35:42Speaker 00

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• 36:09Tucker Carlson?

  Why haven't those prices adjusted more quickly than they have?

• 36:15Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, it takes some time.

• 36:16Tucker Carlson?

  But I think that's a mystery. All of a sudden, no one can buy a house, but house prices are still high?

• 36:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, you know, what's happening is a lot of the people who own their homes and have these low mortgages, they don't feel any pressure to put them on the market. I mean, if they can get a high price, they'll sell. If not, they're just staying on their homes.

• 36:36Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, it would be crazy not where you.

• 36:37Speaker 02

  Meanwhile, we're not building a lot of new homes because it's very expensive to build them. And in fact, Trump has made them even more expensive with tariffs. So we have tariffs on lumber, we have tariffs on, on copper and steel and, and all the things that, you know, need to build houses. Plus, you know, we're chasing out all the workers. I think somebody like 20% of the people who work in construction are illegal, right? So if, if they're not here, you know, so you're driving up.

• 37:01Tucker Carlson?

  Well, that's just bullshit right there. What you said is bullshit.

• 37:04Speaker 02

  Well, they are.

• 37:05Tucker Carlson?

  We've got 50 million illegals in the United States and they're all being paid, not all, but a lot of them are on the government subsidies.

• 37:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:13Tucker Carlson?

  So maybe if you took those away, they would go to the construction trades. You've got a lot of unemployed people who could build houses.

• 37:17Speaker 02

  Yes, but they're not going to take those jobs unless you pay them higher wages. I mean, that's the problem. So you're driving up the cost of building homes. So fewer homes are being built, right? Regardless of what you think of the immigration policy.

• 37:28Tucker Carlson?

  No, but I'm just saying it's not a potential, we have all kinds of labor problems. No one can find labor, but it's not because there aren't enough people without work. There are a lot of people.

• 37:37Speaker 02

  No, there are a lot of people that should be working, but the government has given them an alternative.

• 37:41Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 37:42Speaker 02

  And so they, and that, that is a huge problem. Uh, that is a whole different topic, but the point is that. There aren't a lot of homes being constructed and there's not a lot of homes for sale because the people that own the homes, you know, they, they, they have such a good deal on their mortgage that they don't, they don't.

• 37:58Tucker Carlson?

  Of course, of course.

• 37:58Speaker 02

  And rather than even sell it, you'll rent it out because now you can rent it out and pay the mortgage and collect the rent and you know, you have a, a good, a good spread there.

• 38:08Tucker Carlson?

  Of course, you'll put it on Airbnb.

• 38:09Speaker 02

  But eventually, right? People have to sell their houses for whatever reason. People die, people get divorced, people move. Houses are going to come on the market and of course, eventually people are going to lose their jobs. I mean, we're headed for a very severe recession. I think we've been in recession for years. It's just going to get a lot worse and a lot of the houses are going to come on the market and real estate prices are going to go down substantially nationwide. And that creates a whole new problem because now if people lose their home equity, now they may just default on their mortgage. And now in addition to sitting on all these underwater mortgages, banks are going to start to lose money on defaulted mortgages.

• 38:51Tucker Carlson?

  So the question is, who, who eats the shit sandwich? Is it the real estate, is it the people who have real estate assets or the people seeking to buy real estate assets?

• 39:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, you can't.

• 39:03Tucker Carlson?

  So someone's going to get screwed here, right?

• 39:06Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 39:07Tucker Carlson?

  The buyer or the seller.

• 39:08Speaker 02

  Well, houses are unaffordable and people cannot afford to buy them, right? So the solution is lower prices. But obviously if you already own a house and that's your main asset.

• 39:18Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 39:19Speaker 02

  The last thing you want is lower home prices.

• 39:21Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly.

• 39:22Speaker 02

  And so that is the problem, but the Fed created that problem by blowing up this bubble in the first place. If we'd never had the artificially low interest rates and of course, the other problem was the government guaranteeing the mortgages, which enabled people to pay more for homes than they otherwise could have paid.

• 39:37Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 39:38Speaker 02

  So all of these.

• 39:39Tucker Carlson?

  Can I just ask you a foundational question? Why did, you've referred a couple of times to. Quantitative easing, the post-financial crisis, interest rates at zero, but that went on for like, what, 15 years or something? Why did that go on for so long?

• 39:53Speaker 02

  Because they were afraid to let rates go up because of all the debt that we had. They knew that if they let rates go up, it was going to be a problem. So they kicked a can down the road and they kept them low. But the point is that all of the money in housing, it doesn't make housing more affordable. It actually makes housing more expensive, right? Whenever the government comes in to try to help you pay for something, they actually make it more expensive. If you look at all the areas where the government is involved in a big way, which would be housing, healthcare, education, that's where prices have gone up the most, right? It's because the government gets involved and subsidizes it.

• 40:36Speaker 02

  Before the government got involved in education, college was not expensive, right? If you were upper-middle class in the 1940s, 1950s, you could afford to send your kids to Ivy League schools. It wasn't that big a deal, right? If you were poor, like my father grew up poor, right? He wasn't dirt poor, but he thought he was like upper, lower, lower, middle. But my father, you know, he had eight kids and his mother didn't have a job, right? So even though my grandfather worked as a carpenter, he had a wife who didn't have a job and he was able to support eight kids. And they had a house, they had like a beach house, they had a car.

• 41:18Speaker 02

  I mean, you know, they lived okay for, you know, what he would consider, you know, upper, lower class.

• 41:24Tucker Carlson?

  If they had a house and a beach house, by modern standards, they'd be rich.

• 41:27Speaker 02

  But they weren't back then.

• 41:28Tucker Carlson?

  Right, and I'm saying, even having eight kids, either you're Amish or you're rich.

• 41:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, nobody could afford eight, I mean, you gotta be rich to afford eight kids today. And of course, you could because your wife would have a job. My grandmother didn't work. And my grandfather came to this country without a penny. He didn't even speak English. He came here at about 12 or 13. No welfare, no food stamps, no government housing, just nothing. Just show up and, you know, get a job.

• 41:52Tucker Carlson?

  Where did they live?

• 41:53Speaker 02

  In the haven in Connecticut. He started, he worked on building the Yale Bowl. It's like his first thing he did. But anyway, so my father... Didn't have any money for college, so he got a job in the summer and that paid for all his college. He didn't graduate with any debt. He worked his way through college like a lot of his friends. That was common to do back then. There was no government loans. There was, nobody could get a loan to go to college. But because nobody can get a loan to go to college, the universities had to keep the cost down, or they wouldn't have any customers. So there was a lot of free market pressure to keep tuition down. But what happened during the 1960s is the 18-year-olds got to vote, right? And once 18-year-olds could vote, politicians figured, well, how can we get these kids to vote for us? Oh, let's, let's

• 42:37Speaker 02

  promise that they don't have to work their way through college anymore. You could just bum around Europe all summer.

• 42:42Tucker Carlson?

  Go to Woodstock.

• 42:43Speaker 02

  And, uh, we'll, we'll arrange loans for you. You can loan money, you can borrow money, and just pay it back later when you get your job. And so they started all these government guaranteed loans. And then what happened? The colleges reacted to that by raising prices. Hey, the kids have all this money, right? Let's raise prices. And so, and then they kept increasing how much the kids could borrow, and the colleges kept raising prices. And then they said, oh, well, let's have fancy gymnasiums. Let's have nicer dorms. Nobody cared how much anything cost because all the loans were coming in. And so the government got involved. And now college costs a fortune. Everybody has a degree, so it doesn't even mean anything anymore. And you, and you, and you graduate with a mortgage, right? The

• 43:25Speaker 02

  government caused tuition prices to skyrocket. The same thing with healthcare.

• 43:30Tucker Carlson?

  Man, so question about college loans. How did the lenders do in that arrangement?

• 43:35Speaker 02

  Well, the lenders did great because the government guaranteed all the loans. So the lenders didn't care if the kids could pay back the loans. Didn't matter what your major was, right? You could major in basket weaving. You, you could go to a college, you know, where you take, you know, you don't get no reading or math. I mean, they didn't care because the government guaranteed every loan.

• 43:57Speaker 02

  And, and, and, and, and so, you know, in a free market, you couldn't borrow all this money because the banks would be worried about getting the money back. Why, why, why am I going to loan all this money to somebody who has no assets? You know, what, you know, but once the government comes in, then nobody cares. Right. That's what, that's what happened.

• 44:14Tucker Carlson?

  So the lenders got pretty rich on this.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  Of course, they, oh yeah, the lenders made a fortune and the universities made a fortune because they got to charge more for their product.

• 44:22Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly.

• 44:23Speaker 02

  Right. It's the kids that get stuck with the bill. You get all these liberal, or I like to say liberal, but Democrat radical left politicians that are now complaining about all the student loan debt. They're the reason it exists. Without the government, there would be no student loan debt. Colleges would be a lot less expensive. Uh, yeah, and, and, and people, you know, would, would work their way through like my dad did if they didn't come from an affluent, uh, family. But they did the same thing with, with, with health, with healthcare. I mean, health insurance and, and, and, and healthcare is expensive because the government is so involved in it. And even if you look at where the government is not involved, like LASIK surgery, prices have come down, um, for those procedures because the government doesn't pay for it.

• 45:07Speaker 02

  And, you know, the government, and, and, and the reason that we all have insurance, right? People have, you know, uh, insurance for everything now. And in fact, what really made it bad and Trump doesn't, you know, the, the Republicans want no, uh, uh, role in repealing it is under Obamacare. They said that insurance companies cannot discriminate against people who are already sick, right? If you have a pre-existing condition, the insurance companies have to charge you the same as if you were completely healthy, which destroys the whole concept of insurance and makes it extremely expensive.

• 45:45Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it's not insurance at that.

• 45:46Speaker 02

  It's not, it's free healthcare. It's like you can't buy fire insurance after your house burns down.

• 45:51Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 45:52Speaker 02

  And if you could, nobody would buy fire insurance before it burns down.

• 45:56Tucker Carlson?

  Well, no one would have a fire extinguisher either. Cause why?

• 45:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, it's like, what if you could buy car insurance that covered all your gas? Right?

• 46:04Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 46:04Speaker 02

  I mean, would you, you, you, I mean, nobody expects their auto insurance to cover their gas or their, their oil changes or their tires, right? You buy auto insurance in case you get a wreck and now you have, your car is totaled.

• 46:18Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 46:18Speaker 02

  You know, the money. Health insurance is supposed to be, I got cancer. I got a brain tumor. You're not supposed to have health insurance because you sprained your ankle because you had a baby.

• 46:28Tucker Carlson?

  Or your annual checkup.

• 46:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. All of that stuff is supposed to be paid for out of pocket. But the reason it's not is because the government created a perverse incentive for people to get their insurance from their employer. Because if your employer gives you health insurance, there's no tax. If they give you money to buy health insurance, then you have to pay taxes. So now everybody gets their health insurance from their employer. Uh, and, and now they have health insurance that pays for everything. And so, you know, you go to a doctor sometimes and if they tell you, you need to do something, ask what it costs. They're like, who the hell knows? Nobody knows what anything costs.

• 47:04Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 47:05Speaker 02

  Because nobody cares. Because nobody's paying for it. Right? The, the person that's paying for it isn't even in the room. Right? You have the patient and the doctor and neither one of them is, is, you know, knows what anything costs. Because you got some third party that's paying the bill. So the, the entire system doesn't work, but it's all because government got involved. Right? When government tries to make things more affordable, it makes them more expensive. The only way to make things cheaper is to let the free market do it. Right? The free market is great at lowering costs and increasing quality.

• 47:36Tucker Carlson?

  But the free market is blamed, I mean, of course, we don't have anything approaching a free market. Nothing resembles a free market. It's a monopoly economy. It's cartel. But all of this is described as a free market, thereby totally discrediting the concept of free market economics and ensuring that we're going to get a socialist system.

• 47:54Speaker 02

  No, we don't have it anymore. And it's very unfortunate because a lot of people look at Trump and they say, well, he is a pro-business president. And he is pro-business, but he's not pro-capitalism, pro-free markets. Donald Trump wants to micromanage the economy from the White House, like he's the CEO. He wants to decide where he thinks capital should go and direct it into industries that he, that he likes or companies that he likes. And that's wrong. I mean, I mean, one of the big industries that he's promoting is crypto. And for me, I think this is a complete waste of capital. Now, yeah, I mean, if Americans want to throw their money away in a lot of these crypto companies,

• 48:36Speaker 02

  all right, I mean, it's unfortunate, but if the government is now promoting it and pushing money into this industry that might have gone someplace else if it was a free market, this is doing a lot of harm.

• 48:49Tucker Carlson?

  Why is it throwing, I mean, you know, you meet all these people who've made hundreds of millions, you meet kids who've made real money from crypto, why is it throwing it away?

• 48:58Speaker 02

  Well, because where did they make it? They didn't make money in crypto because they, you know, produced products that we consume or provide services that improve our lives. The people who've made money in crypto, and I know a lot of them, they've made money in crypto because the crypto that they bought a long time ago went way up.

• 49:19Tucker Carlson?

  Well, how is that different from buying gold?

• 49:21Speaker 02

  Well, I'm not people, I don't know a lot of people who got rich buying gold, right?

• 49:26Tucker Carlson?

  I've done really well, just being honest, and so have you.

• 49:28Speaker 02

  No, why? Okay, we've tripled our money. I'm talking about, I'm talking about people who bought Bitcoin for a dollar and now it's $90,000, right? You're talking about people who put.

• 49:40Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, so it's a big run up, but it's the same, but when you buy gold, which I'm totally, I own a gold company, I'm totally for buying gold, but you're not, it's not a creative act, you're not making anything, not making anyone's life better, you're not really adding to the, some total of the economy, you're not doing anything other than buying something low and holding until it gets high.

• 49:57Speaker 02

  Right, but there is a big difference, and I'll get to that in a minute, but the people who have made money in crypto, right, they bought it at a very low price and now other people are buying in at a much higher price, believing that they're going to be able to do the same thing. There are people who are buying Bitcoin now at, you know, $90,000, whatever it's at, they're buying it because they think it's going to a million. They think they'll be able to sell at a million. And of course, the only reason someone's going to buy it at a million is because they think it's going to 10 million. Right. So it's all this greater fool theory. And so

• 50:32Tucker Carlson?

  But why is it different from Nvidia or any stock?

• 50:36Speaker 02

  So Nvidia, right, and I think Nvidia is overpriced. But Nvidia is a business that is generating income, right, selling its GPUs and has earnings. So it's an actual viable business. The question is, what is that business worth? I think it's worth less than the market currently believes. But it's worth something. There's no doubt that Nvidia is a valuable company that is producing things that people need.

• 51:00Tucker Carlson?

  But the rationale for the trade, like for the average person buying any stock is that I will buy it lower than I will sell it.

• 51:06Speaker 02

  Well,

• 51:07Tucker Carlson?

  And the people at the very end of that chain, as it starts to decline, get screwed.

• 51:12Speaker 02

  Well, if that's the reason, look, if we buy stocks, right, for our customers at your Pacific Asset Management, which is my company. The most important criteria is the current earnings and the dividends. Right. So I'm buying companies because they generate income to me as the owner. Just like if I were to buy real estate, I would look at the rental income, right?

• 51:34Tucker Carlson?

  For sure.

• 51:34Speaker 02

  What am I getting in rent?

• 51:35Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 51:36Speaker 02

  If you just buy real estate because you think the price is going to go up, well, you're a real estate speculator. Maybe you'll speculate right, maybe you'll be wrong. But it's different from an investor who is looking at the cash flow.

• 51:46Tucker Carlson?

  For sure.

• 51:46Speaker 02

  So when I buy a stock, if I'm getting a seven, eight, nine percent dividend, right? Because I own that company, it's paying me a dividend. I don't need the stock to go up. I just get my share of the income. I'm buying into a business that is generating income. Now, if the business grows and generates more income in addition to my dividend yield, when I go to sell the stock in the future, if it's a more valuable company that's generating more income and paying more dividends, then I can sell it at a higher price than what I paid, right? Because the business itself is more valuable. But if you're simply buying a company, it doesn't even make any money, then maybe it's losing money. And you just want to bet that in the future it might make money.

• 52:27Speaker 02

  You're speculating on a stock. You could speculate, but it's very different from being an investor. Right? You're a stock speculator, but when you buy Bitcoin, you're not even speculating in the sense that Bitcoin is going to earn money in the future. It's never going to earn money in the future. It is a non-income-producing digital asset. You know, it's marketed as if it were digital gold, but it's not digital gold at all. It's got nothing in common with gold. Gold is a valuable commodity. Now, when you own gold, when you decide to buy some gold, right? What you're doing is you're storing that gold so that somebody in the future can use it, right? Gold is unique among commodities in that it doesn't decay, it doesn't spoil, right?

• 53:13Speaker 02

  For thousands of years, you know, gold will stay the same, right? And if, you know, if a ship sunk 500 years ago in the ocean and you can salvage that ship today, if there was gold in it, it looks exactly the way it looked when the ship sank. Everything else is

• 53:29Tucker Carlson?

  So the physical properties of it are enduring.

• 53:31Speaker 02

  And, but they're not just enduring, they are important and valuable because they're needed in all sorts of industries, right? And so when you are storing gold, the gold that you're storing can be used in the future, not just by a jeweler who would want it, you know, to make jewelry, but, you know, to use in aerospace, in consumer electronics, in medicine. There are all sorts of things where you actually need gold.

• 53:55Tucker Carlson?

  There are industrial applications for gold.

• 53:57Speaker 02

  Right. And there are more uses for gold now than there's ever been. And in fact, we're developing new uses all the time. So as, as we advance as a civilization, we come up with more ways that we can utilize gold. And so when you're storing that gold and, you know, you are, you know, holding it for somebody to use in the future. That's why it's a store of value.

• 54:19Tucker Carlson?

  But can I also add to that? I mean, that's obviously true, what you're saying. It's even more true for platinum, which is not as prized as gold. And I think the difference is that gold does have a mystical quality to it. It's been a medium of exchange for all recorded human history, all recorded. I mean, from the earliest rings we have refer to gold. So there's something about gold that people associate with value.

• 54:40Speaker 02

  Well, it has value. It's not that they associate it.

• 54:43Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it has industrial value. Okay, it has.

• 54:45Speaker 02

  But even just look, just even here, I have a gold bracelet that I'm wearing. I mean, just having a jeweler, have a gold watch, right? Like sometimes I wear gold when I know I'm going to talk about gold.

• 54:54Tucker Carlson?

  But the reason.

• 54:54Speaker 02

  So people could see that that people like it for a reason as to where it is.

• 55:00Tucker Carlson?

  But the reason is not so easily explained. It's not just that it's, you know, useful in medical devices or in consumer electronics. Is there something about it that resonates that, you know, comes at a certain frequency within people?

• 55:11Speaker 02

  And right, and you're talking.

• 55:12Tucker Carlson?

  God knows what that is.

• 55:13Speaker 02

  Societies that never had any interaction with each other were using gold.

• 55:18Tucker Carlson?

  That's kind of what I'm saying.

• 55:19Speaker 02

  Right.

• 55:20Tucker Carlson?

  But we don't know why. Let's be honest. We don't actually know what that is.

• 55:22Speaker 02

  No, but when you look at gold and you look at the things you can do with it and the properties that it has, you know, we as humans value the properties that gold.

• 55:29Tucker Carlson?

  But it's just inherent. It's like we always have.

• 55:32Speaker 02

  Well, I would, I would, I would imagine that if there's life on other planets, they value gold there too. You know, I, I, I think it's kind of a universal thing as far as the properties that gold has. Now, what, what Bitcoin did, right? Gold wasn't the first money. It was the best money, right? Because before we had money, there was barter, right? We invented money, but when, when there was no money and if two people wanted to trade with each other, you know, they, they, they would barter. So if I was a butcher and you were a baker and, you know, you wanted some meat, you would offer me some of your bread, right? And then I would give you some meat and, and, and we could trade. But what, what if you're a vegetarian, right? What if you don't want meat?

• 56:15Speaker 02

  How, you know, how am I going to buy your bread if all I have is meat, right? So it's, it was different because you needed a confluence of needs. But man invented money, right? Which was a commodity that everybody would accept. As payment. And so if I had money, then I could buy your bread and give you the money. And then you could take that money, right, and buy something else. But the money also had to be something of value, but not bread, which would go stale, or meat that would, you know, go bad. The money had to be a commodity that would hold on to its value. And so that's where, you know, gold came in. So instead of giving you meat that you'd have to eat right away, or freeze it, or something, I'd just give you gold. And you knew that that was valuable. And somebody else,

• 57:00Speaker 02

  the candlestick maker, would take gold for his candlesticks. You don't need to give him meat, you don't need to give him bread. So, you know, and a lot of things were used as money, you know, throughout societies. But what, what, what ended up being the best money was gold. And they made coins out of it. And you could easily tell, you know, that how, how much gold was in each coin. And so what kind of weight of gold you were getting in exchange for whatever it was you were selling. And the reason gold became better money than, you know, seashells, or, you know, cattle, or salt, you know, different things that were used, you know, the Romans used salt as money. That's where the word salary comes from, right? Because it was salt.

• 57:39Speaker 02

  But gold had a lot of properties, you know, it was very divisible, it was very portable, it was very durable, it was fungible, it had a lot of these properties that really made it ideal to use as money. And so what, what the creator of Bitcoin did is he came up with a, you know, a digital token that, you know, mimicked those properties, right? Bitcoin, it's portable, it's divisible, it's fungible, right? It, you know, it can do all that stuff, which is fine. But what it doesn't has have is the most important characteristic that you need to be money, and that's you have to be a valuable commodity. You have to have value,

• 58:21Speaker 02

  intrinsic value for on, on your own, right? There has to be a use beyond just a medium of exchange. Because money needs to be a store of value. It can't just be a media of exchange or a unit account. It has to be a store of value. And so in order to store value, you've got to have value, right? You can't store something that you don't have. So when you have gold, you're storing the value of a metal that can be used in jewelry and consumer electronics and aerospace and all this stuff. But when you're holding on to Bitcoin, you have nothing, right? I can't do anything with Bitcoin. It can't be used for anything because it's just a string of numbers. Like, you know, it's so, it has no actual use. Sure, I can give you my Bitcoin. I can sell you my Bitcoin, but what can you do with it? Well, you could give it to somebody else or sell it to somebody else.

• 59:06Speaker 02

  But the only reason anybody wants to buy it is because they think the price is going to go up. That is, the sole source of demand is I'm going to get rich. If I buy this Bitcoin and hodl it and never sell it and ride out the volatility, I'm going to get rich.

• 59:22Tucker Carlson?

  Well, there was another use that was intended, or at least advertised at the very beginning. I remember it vividly, which was as a medium of exchange that couldn't be controlled by governments. And that was going to usher in true human freedom, where they couldn't control commerce.

• 59:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, part of the promise of Bitcoin when I first learned about it was it was, you know, anonymous and private, and it allowed you to circumvent the AML laws and the KYC laws, and you can transact without the government knowing what you were doing. And that was a positive aspect of it.

• 59:55Tucker Carlson?

  Well, yeah, that was the whole appeal to me.

• 59:57Speaker 02

  Which is completely lost now. That is all in ETFs and Bitcoin treasury companies and all that. But even though that was appealing, because it didn't have any real underlying value, you couldn't really keep a lot of money in it. It was only really useful, I think, for people who were doing something illegal. Because there, you know, if you have to launder money because you're doing something illegal.

• 1:00:24Speaker 02

  Even if I end up losing 20 or 30% of my money in Bitcoin because I accept Bitcoin and by the time I use it, it's, you know, it's lost 30% of its value, that's fine because criminals are used to paying to launder money. They don't mind it. But if you're, if you're a lawless, honest person and, you know, I'm buying stuff, I really don't, you know, care if the government knows I bought it, you're not going to take that kind of a risk to be anonymous, to be, you know, to transact in private. And, you know, I think, I think it's unfortunate that we've lost all of this privacy that we once had. I mean, it was, you know, constitutional right, you had a right to privacy, the whole constitution is written. So, yeah, but not

• 1:01:03Speaker 02

  anymore. We have, you know, there's no privacy whatsoever anymore. But ultimately, the fact that it didn't have any real value is what, is what lessened that appeal to most people. But in order to make Bitcoin palatable to Wall Street, they actually got all this government regulation. I mean, can you imagine an industry that is just asking to be regulated, wants regulation? I mean, normally, a business industry would want as little regulation as possible. They don't want the government getting involved.

• 1:01:37Tucker Carlson?

  Well, they call it clarity.

• 1:01:38Speaker 02

  Well, what they're looking for in crypto is validation. They want the regulation to validate product in the industry so they can get people to buy it by saying the government has blessed it. See, the government now endorses it, the government is supporting it. And the reason that so many politicians, including Trump, the reason that they support Bitcoin is because Bitcoin supported them, right? People that got into Bitcoin early made so much money because so many other people got in late, that they were able to pay off a bunch of politicians and get them to support Bitcoin. They supported this whole idea of a Bitcoin strategic reserve, which is really just a Bitcoin bailout fund, trying to use

• 1:02:19Speaker 02

  taxpayer money to buy out Bitcoin. But the Bitcoin industry was able to pay off a lot of politicians and

• 1:02:27Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, can I just ask though, I mean, a lot of what you're saying is obviously true, but I also think you've described the decline of the US dollar, it's diminishing purchasing power. So clearly, there needs to be a new global reserve currency. You don't want it to be one owned by a geopolitical rival. So why wouldn't Tether, why wouldn't Bitcoin be the new global reserve currency?

• 1:02:51Speaker 02

  Well, first of all, gold is money. It's not currency. And so there's a difference between money and currency. So currency is backed by money. So when we were on a gold standard and we had paper that was redeemable in gold, the paper was currency, the gold was money. So currency is like a money substitute. But you can have two kinds of currency. You can have legitimate currency, which is backed by real money, where you can have fiat currency, which is backed by nothing. And so what we have now is fiat currency. And the question is, well, could we replace that with Bitcoin? And I don't think that that's possible, because I don't think that Bitcoin has any value beyond its appeal that, you know, you know,

• 1:03:34Speaker 02

  a greater fool is going to come and buy it. Central banks can't hold Bitcoin as a reserve against their own currency. If they had to sell it, I mean, the price would drop sharply. You know, you have to have real money. That's why all these central banks-

• 1:03:50Tucker Carlson?

  But under a current system, you don't have real money. You have the US dollar, which is real because people have decided it's real. It's an act of faith. And their faith in that is declining because it's been used as a political weapon, as you, I thought so crisply explained. And so you need to replace it with something. Why wouldn't Bitcoin, why would Bitcoin be any different from the US dollar, except you like start anew?

• 1:04:13Speaker 02

  Well, the main difference there is, you know, they're both, in a way, fiat-

• 1:04:18Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 1:04:19Speaker 02

  In that both Bitcoin and the dollar derive their value from faith and confidence.

• 1:04:24Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 1:04:25Speaker 02

  But Bitcoin, people are buying, most people who are buying Bitcoin are buying Bitcoin to get more dollars. They're thinking the price is going to go way up and they'll be able to sell out and have more dollars than they started with. Most people are not getting into Bitcoin because they just want a safe store of value. If that was the case, they would buy gold. They're speculating in it. But the central banks- Right, these big central banks are not going to be able to put large quantities of their dollar reserves into Bitcoin. There's just, it's not a reliable long-term store of value for them. That's what they're looking for. They're looking for something to replace the dollar to back up their currency. And

• 1:05:08Tucker Carlson?

  Are they buying Bitcoin?

• 1:05:10Speaker 02

  No, they're not buying. I mean, you have made El Salvador bought some Bitcoin. I mean, you have, you have some foreign governments that have sovereign wealth funds.

• 1:05:17Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:05:17Speaker 02

  Where those sovereign wealth funds have kind of bought some Bitcoin ETFs, or maybe they bought strategy, you know, which was a big mistake. But because they're, you know, these investment managers are under a lot of pressure, just like any other manager, to perform. And, and so a lot of these crypto-related assets went up. And so there was some pressure, hey, I need to put these in the portfolio. And so you have allocations. And then the crypto community tries to pretend, oh, these governments are buying up Bitcoin. They're not really buying Bitcoin. The managers of these sovereign wealth funds have taken a small allocation. I think that's all going to stop because this is going to blow up. You know, the people who are putting money into crypto now into Bitcoin are going to

• 1:05:59Speaker 02

  lose a lot of money, where they're, they're the exit strategy. I mean, that's why Bitcoin hasn't gone up. You know, Bitcoin's real high watermark was four years ago. It's down about 40% priced in gold over the last four years. So we've been distributing Bitcoin from the strong hands that bought it early, the OGs, the whales, to the retail public has been buying it at these inflated prices for years. And eventually, you know, the bottom's going to drop out of this thing.

• 1:06:27Tucker Carlson?

  So that, I mean, you're making a very, I would say, I'm biased, of course, but you're making a pretty compelling case for gold on a bunch of levels. But one, most obviously is a hedge against whatever the hell's going to happen next. Like, so if you were giving advice to someone you loved, like, I've got $100, what do I do with it? I think the wise, the loving advice would be put some of it in gold.

• 1:06:48Speaker 02

  Well, everybody should have some money in gold.

• 1:06:51Tucker Carlson?

  But so why isn't that advice ever uttered on any of the financial advice channels? I think that's weird.

• 1:06:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, because Wall Street has never been a big promoter of gold.

• 1:07:05Tucker Carlson?

  You know, I don't mean, why, why doesn't, you know, JP Morgan tell you to buy gold? Why doesn't CNBC tell you to buy gold?

• 1:07:11Speaker 02

  Well, I don't think they have enough gold companies that advertise on CNBC. I think most of their advertisers are from the crypto industry. And I think that really corrupts the whole process.

• 1:07:21Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 1:07:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think the advertisers advertise because they know they're going to have a lot of pro crypto content. I mean, they, they spend the entire day on CNBC. Uh, I've, you know, I haven't been on that show in over a decade, you know? They're the ones that initially started calling me Dr. Doom when I was predicting the 2008 financial crisis. So they kind of used to have me on. But, and, and it's not just me, they don't really have any Bitcoin critics on their air. They have, they have one Bitcoin promoter after another. And all of the, the on air talent, all the anchors are pretty much pro Bitcoin.

• 1:07:56Tucker Carlson?

  Where, where are they on gold?

• 1:07:57Speaker 02

  They don't even really talk about it. I mean, you know,

• 1:07:59Tucker Carlson?

  But you'd started this conversation by describing the rise in the S and P relative to gold.

• 1:08:07Speaker 02

  I mean, the fall in the S and P relative.

• 1:08:09Tucker Carlson?

  Well, that, well, the S and P has risen, but once you rooted in gold, because all measures are comparative, you see that it's actually fallen compared to gold. So gold is the better buy.

• 1:08:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, but again,

• 1:08:19Tucker Carlson?

  But so like, that's just indisputable, right?

• 1:08:21Speaker 02

  Yes, but that, that, that is not what they're selling on these financial channels.

• 1:08:25Tucker Carlson?

  But they're lying then.

• 1:08:26Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I mean, you know, or, or they, or they don't understand it. I mean, there's a lot of

• 1:08:30Tucker Carlson?

  But that's even I understand. I mean, I don't know anything.

• 1:08:33Speaker 02

  Again, because you didn't get a degree in economics from a major university.

• 1:08:36Tucker Carlson?

  But that's really simple. I, you buy, I buy two things 25 years ago, which is worth more now? That's just simple, right?

• 1:08:42Speaker 02

  And, and you know, it's going to accelerate because we're going to be printing a lot of money. You know, now that the Fed has really gone back to QE, they haven't admitted it, but it's only a matter of time.

• 1:08:52Tucker Carlson?

  Why do you say they've gone back to quarantine?

• 1:08:54Speaker 02

  Because they're printing. printing money and buying treasuries.

• 1:08:56Tucker Carlson?

  So but what are interest like over the past six months, what if for those who are not paying attention, tell us where interest rates.

• 1:09:01Speaker 02

  Well, short term interest rates have come down, right? The Fed has cut rates three times, and so now they have the Fed funds at three and a half to three and three quarters. But the 10 year treasury has stayed around 4%. It's around 4.15%. The 30 year treasury is around 3, 4.8%. Right, so they haven't been able to move long term rates down. And I think long term rates are going to soar in this country. And I think in order to prevent long term rates from really rising, the Fed is going to be monetizing more debt, printing more money, creating more inflation. Remember, we're spending now over a trillion dollars a year just on interest on the national debt, like 1.2, 1.3 trillion. That's going to hit 2 trillion probably sometime next year.

• 1:09:46Speaker 02

  Because almost all of the national debt is financed with treasury bills. Right, back when interest rates got to 20% in 1980, most of the national debt was long term. So it was unaffected by the big move. It only affected the new borrowing. But now, right, if a third of the national debt comes due in the next year, the government has to refinance that at whatever the current rate of interest is. So I think we're headed for this fiscal, you know, time bomb, where the cost of servicing the debt is skyrocketing. I mean, in not too many years, it could cost us more than we collect in taxes just to pay the interest on what we've borrowed. And because the debt service costs are exploding.

• 1:10:31Speaker 02

  And the only reason they're not much higher now is because rates are still low. You know, 4% is low, right? Donald Trump wants them lower, you know, he wants, you know, 0 or 1%. But the reason he wants that, he wants just more inflation. He wants to try to blow air into the bubble to hide the fact that the economy is actually getting weaker. So he just wants to make the bubbles bigger by creating more inflation, while at the same time claiming that he's vanquished inflation, all because energy prices have come down and energy prices have come down. In fact, energy prices are as cheap as they've ever been. If you look at how many barrels of oil you can buy with an ounce of gold, oil is dirt cheap. The question is, how long is it going to stay this cheap? I don't think it's going to stay cheap.

• 1:11:15Speaker 02

  I've been buying a lot of oil stocks now. We've been increasing our allocation of energy because I think we're going to see a big move up. In oil price.

• 1:11:23Tucker Carlson?

  The one factor you haven't mentioned is technological change. So with gold too. I mean, if gold prices, I don't know what the threshold for gold is, but if it gets to, you know, six grand an ounce or something crazy, somebody's going to figure out a better extraction technique and there's going to be a lot more gold and prices will fall.

• 1:11:39Speaker 02

  Well, there won't be a lot more gold because, you know, the supply of gold grows pretty slowly, one or 2% a year.

• 1:11:46Tucker Carlson?

  It has, right? But that's a technology question.

• 1:11:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you know, we, you know, we haven't come up with better ways. Or, you know, because the gold gets harder to get out of the ground, you know, the, the real easy gold has already been extracted, right? Because they've been mining gold for hundreds of years. So, you know, the gold that's still there is more difficult to get out of the ground. But there hasn't been a major gold discovery in decades. There hasn't been a lot of investment in exploration and development. So by the time the industry is able to, you know, attract enough capital into the sector, because nobody's been interested in, in gold mining, right? It's been, it's been dead. In fact, crypto, I think, really harmed the industry. It created a big distraction.

• 1:12:29Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 1:12:30Speaker 02

  Where people are like, well, why should I buy gold? I got Bitcoin. It's better than gold. It's gold 2.0. So the industry was really starved for capital.

• 1:12:37Tucker Carlson?

  But I'm just saying, because markets do respond to reality over time.

• 1:12:41Speaker 02

  Over time.

• 1:12:41Tucker Carlson?

  If the price gets high enough.

• 1:12:43Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:12:43Tucker Carlson?

  It's in seawater. Okay. So like.

• 1:12:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, they will. Yes. Over time and, and people will start melting down their jewelry because they need money and the prices are higher. And yes, all this will happen, but it's not going to stop the price of gold. Look, the price of gold was $20 an ounce from 1789 to 1933, right? For like 150 years, it was $20 an ounce. And then Roosevelt devalued and got 35. But if gold can go from $20 an ounce to 4,000, right? Where can it go from 4,000? I mean, it can go to 100,000, you know, obviously, you know, we can keep debasing the value of currency, you know, ironically, you know.

• 1:13:23Speaker 02

  The, one of the ways that you're going to actually bring gold into the modern economy is through the blockchain, through the internet. Everybody wants to talk about, you know, uh, stable coins, right? Which are basically tokenized dollars, right? Just taking the dollar and turning it into a token.

• 1:13:43Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:43Speaker 02

  Right? Well, there's no real stability in tokenizing dollars because you've got the same inherent problem. If you own a stable, a dollar token, inflation is going to destroy its value. It's gonna, you know, you're gonna lose value the same way as-

• 1:13:57Tucker Carlson?

  You're not in control of the Congress and the Fed, so like-

• 1:13:59Speaker 02

  And you don't even really earn interest on it. At least if I have dollars, I can put them in a money market and get some interest to offset some of what I'm losing to inflation. But the ideal thing to tokenize is gold, right? Because when you turn gold into a token, now you actually have digital gold. So instead of having paper money that's backed by gold, I can have a digital token that's backed by gold.

• 1:14:23Tucker Carlson?

  As long as the tokens continue to match one for one the physical supply of gold, that's a real system.

• 1:14:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, well that's-

• 1:14:30Tucker Carlson?

  The second you've got more paper than you've got assets, then it's not real.

• 1:14:33Speaker 02

  But you know what? But it's so easily auditable on a blockchain. I mean, I'm doing that and you should look into this too. I, I, you know, I have a, on Shift Gold, I have a T-Gold, uh, which is ultimately going to be tokenized gold. I haven't launched the token yet, uh, but right now I'm, I'm helping people buy gold and silver that we're gonna tokenize. So, once you have the gold, you'll have the ability to withdraw it either in a physical form or in the form of a token. But the idea of a gold-backed token, the idea of T-Gold, is so that you can use your gold easily as a medium of exchange. And you can transact instantly, uh, over the internet. You, you know, somebody in the United States can make a purchase of, from somebody in Australia and pay them instantly with gold.

• 1:15:18Speaker 02

  You don't have to send the actual gold to Australia. You just send the token, which represents ownership of that gold. If you have the token, then the gold belongs to you. And so if I want to give you my gold, I don't have to drive down to the vault, grab some of it and, and bring it to you.

• 1:15:33Tucker Carlson?

  Right, no.

• 1:15:33Speaker 02

  I just send you the token and now you own the gold. Just like paper money, when paper used to circulate, whoever had the paper had ownership of the gold. The paper currency was titled to gold. And so now you could do that with a token through a blockchain.

• 1:15:48Tucker Carlson?

  As long as you can redeem it.

• 1:15:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:50Tucker Carlson?

  And it's enforceable.

• 1:15:51Speaker 02

  And it's auditable. Look, when you know.

• 1:15:53Tucker Carlson?

  But is it enforceable?

• 1:15:54Speaker 02

  Of course, it's a legal contract. It's a law. So if I sell you a gold token, and that's like an IOU, it's an IOU for gold. And I legally, contractually, am obligated to pay you or whoever is the bearer of that token. So while you own the token, the gold belongs to you. But if you spend that token, and now somebody else earns it, because you know, they provided goods or services, or you just gave them a gift, now they own the gold. Now, they don't have to come and get it. They, you know, they could just leave it there and just transact the token. I mean, that's what people did. If you go back to the days of a blacksmith with your gold, you would have gold and you left it with a blacksmith, and he gave you an IOU. And, and, and if the people in the town knew the

• 1:16:38Speaker 02

  local blacksmith, and they recognized his IOU, you know, if you, you could, you could spend it. People would take it.

• 1:16:45Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 1:16:45Speaker 02

  Because they, they didn't have to go get the gold. They knew the gold was there. The problem would be, of course, if the blacksmith, you know, absconded with the gold. But, you know, in, in, in capitalism, and I, I have this argument all the time with these Bitcoiners, because they think that what I'm doing with tokenized gold, they think, well, you know, you have to trust the third party. So, you know, I want to own Bitcoin because I don't have to trust the third party. Well, of course, you know, if you put your Bitcoin on an exchange, if you own it through an ETF, of course, you're trusting a third party. But I have no problem with trusting third parties in capitalism, because a business that has a reputation and has a brand, wants to maintain the value of that brand. You know, I mean,

• 1:17:29Speaker 02

  the insurance industry is a perfect example of trust. When you buy an insurance policy, you're relying on a third party, the insurance company, to pay your claim. Right? You know, if you have fire insurance, you're trusting that if your house burns down, the insurance company is going to pay you.

• 1:17:46Tucker Carlson?

  Well, every transaction require, I mean, I trust there's no poison in my ice cream.

• 1:17:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:50Tucker Carlson?

  You know, every transaction.

• 1:17:51Speaker 02

  Now, people in Bitcoin say, well, when I have Bitcoin, I don't have to trust anybody. Well, no, you have to trust everybody. You have to trust that people still want your Bitcoin, despite the fact that it has no. No value.

• 1:18:00Tucker Carlson?

  We also have to trust the electrical grid.

• 1:18:01Speaker 02

  Well, that that

• 1:18:02Tucker Carlson?

  Doesn't exist without it.

• 1:18:03Speaker 02

  Right, that too. But the the bigger thing is you're just trusting that the the people who believe in Bitcoin, who believe that nothing is something, continue to believe that and continue to want to buy it.

• 1:18:14Tucker Carlson?

  Gold coins in your backyard, you you have to trust fewer people. All you have to trust is human nature, which is attracted to gold. Period.

• 1:18:20Speaker 02

  Well, but when you when you own gold, you're not trusting anything because the gold itself has value.

• 1:18:26Tucker Carlson?

  That well, that's what I'm saying. Right. So but if you have possession of physical gold, you do. You're not relying on fragile systems.

• 1:18:33Speaker 02

  I mean, the only risk there is somebody could steal it from you if they find it, right? You could lose it, right? You know, if you have gold. But the the thing about tokenized gold, and I I I recommend that people have both. They have physical gold and and they have some tokenized gold because the tokenized gold is the gold that you can use in commerce, you know, that you could easily spend. It's much more difficult if I have bars of gold or even gold coins, even as even a, you know, one ounce gold coin is $4,000. A tenth of an ounce coin is $400, right? I mean, so if you want to buy something for five bucks, you know, how you know, let's let's go, you know, you you can't really do it. But if you have the tokenized gold, then you can easily transact.

• 1:19:14Speaker 02

  You can, you know, buy a cup of coffee and the barista can accept payment in gold. You know, the big problem, though, and I I want to congratulate you too on on on battalion gold, right, that you that you set up.

• 1:19:28Speaker 02

  Because, you know, when I start, as I mentioned, when I started in this industry, in the gold industry in 2010, for over 10 years before that, I was just telling all my customers, buy gold, just go out and buy gold, right? Even though I didn't sell it, I thought everybody should own it. And I just said, you know, go out and get it. And little did I know that people were just getting ripped off because I found out years later, people would call me up. And they would say, you know, I just sold some gold, you know, I bought it, you know, it was $400 and now I sold it at 700 and I lost money. Well, how'd you lose money? And then, and I started looking into it and I found out that when they bought gold, when it was 400, they didn't pay 400. They paid like, because they, they didn't get $400

• 1:20:13Speaker 02

  worth of gold. They just paid $400 to get like $200 worth of gold.

• 1:20:17Tucker Carlson?

  So because they bought it in the form of a commemorative coin that was supposed to have value?

• 1:20:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, they got, and so I set up Shift Gold, simply because I didn't want people to get ripped off anymore because it was so, it was so pervasive. And it was almost because so few people were buying gold, that the only way that the gold industry could make money was to overcharge. And what really made me furious, and I don't even want to name names, but I had, you know, is that they would go to some of the most popular conservative talk show hosts, and they would pay these guys to recommend their gold company.

• 1:20:53Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I know.

• 1:20:54Speaker 02

  And the reason they would do that is because the loyal listeners trusted the talk show hosts.

• 1:21:00Tucker Carlson?

  Well, they came to me with an offer.

• 1:21:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:02Tucker Carlson?

  That's how I know this. I didn't understand how it worked. I never, I've always been pro gold, but I didn't realize, people were paying twice

• 1:21:09Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:21:09Tucker Carlson?

  the value, twice the spot price.

• 1:21:11Speaker 02

  The only reason it worked, Tucker, the reason it worked is because the people who listen to their favorite talk show host, and the guy would say, here's the firm I trust, this is where I buy my gold. Yeah, because they don't rip you off. But here's where I get my gold. Go buy your gold there. And the listener who is very loyal to the talk show hosts and trusts them, goes to that gold broker and just assumes they're getting a great deal. Hey, you know, so and so wouldn't recommend this company unless they were going to treat me right. And so they didn't shop around. And in fact, they make it impossible to shop around because they sell coins that nobody else has, because they're so obscure. And they try to pretend that they're, you know, they're not going to be confiscated, or they have some kind of collectible value. And it's all BS. They

• 1:21:55Speaker 02

  have no value. They, it's, all the money went, it goes into the pocket of the salesman because these, these gold salesmen work on commission. And if they sell you, you know, maple leaves at a 1% markup and maybe they make $200 in gross commission and they make 30 bucks for themselves, or they can get you to put the $10,000 into these

• 1:22:15Tucker Carlson?

  Totally right.

• 1:22:16Speaker 02

  DS coins and they make $2,000, $3,000. That's what they sell. That's what they-

• 1:22:20Tucker Carlson?

  I didn't know any of this. And the problem with selling gold in an honest way is that it's a very low mar- you do it. You know, it's a very low margin. You're not getting rich selling gold and we're not getting rich from it. And our prices are transparent. You know exactly, it's whatever, two points above spot or something. We're not in this to get rich.

• 1:22:37Speaker 02

  Well, where are you gonna make money eventually is on volume. Eventually, a lot more people are gonna start buying gold. I mean, people just don't know enough to buy it.

• 1:22:44Tucker Carlson?

  But everything can't be a scam because then people lose confidence in their fellow human beings in their country and it's just bad. Everything's a scam.

• 1:22:51Speaker 02

  The only companies that can afford to advertise on television are the ones that are ripping you off.

• 1:22:56Tucker Carlson?

  That's how I figured out it was a scam. I was like, how can they afford? It's a commodity. How can they afford to pay me just as a pitchman? I'm sure they have other people, they do have other people pitching as well. How can, where does this money come from? And that's how I figured it out.

• 1:23:11Speaker 02

  And that's, and I talked to a lot of people that I knew in the industry and I was pointing out, you are, your, your audience is getting ripped off. You're helping these guys steal money by promoting these companies.

• 1:23:23Tucker Carlson?

  And they're the nicest people and they're directionally correct in their concerns. They're, they love America. They're worried about the softening of the dollar. They know that their politicians basically are looting the country through devaluing the dollar. That's all true. So they're, they're the best people. They're the most honest people. And to screw them over just enraged me.

• 1:23:40Speaker 02

  Yes, they're screwing them over. They're, they're trying to do the right thing.

• 1:23:43Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:23:44Speaker 02

  They're trying to buy gold and then they're getting ripped off. Now, the thing is, gold has gone up so much that a lot of those people don't even realize because now they can actually still sell their, their, their gold at a, at a game, but they would have a much bigger game if they hadn't been ripped off. In fact, I have a, a special report. I remember I wrote this report. People can get it, you know, it's on my website on shiftgold.com, but it's classic gold scams. And I go over all of the tricks, all the things that gold salesmen tell you to steal your money, to convince you why you shouldn't buy, you know, a maple leaf or a cougarand, why you should buy this certain, and they have all these tricks. And, and, and a lot of times too, they'll even advertise-

• 1:24:25Speaker 02

  For these, you know, they'll have a low price on a maple leaf, right? That might even be lower than what I would charge, right? But then when someone calls up to buy it, they don't sell you that. No. They sell you, they talk you into something else. And they also try to con you into it by, a lot of these companies have something called like a price protection, like they say, hey, we'll guarantee you if the price goes down over the next 30 days, we'll, we'll do it, we'll, we'll mark it to the lower price. Well, we'll give you some more. Or sometimes they even offer to give you free gold or free silver if you buy a certain amount. And the only reason they could do that is because they're overcharging you by so much money. Totally right. They have enough left over, or if they're, if they're, if they're charging you 50% more than

• 1:25:06Speaker 02

  the price of gold and the price of gold goes down and they have to give you back 10% of what they overcharge you, they still made a fortune. Exactly.