The Truth About CIA Hit Teams, Black Ops & Covert Action | Ric Prado (throwback)

original air date 5/13/22 presented by VAER Watches go to--> https://www.vaerwatches.com/theteamhouse and get a free watch roll with your purchase & 20% off for activde duty, veteran, leo's & first responders. Ric Prado is a former CIA operations officer who spent more than two decades working in some of the agency’s most demanding assignments, including counterterrorism, paramilitary operations, and overseas intelligence missions. He later chronicled his career in Black Ops: The Life of a CIA Shadow Warrior, offering a rare look at the covert side of U. S. national security. Grab Ric's book here: "Black Ops: The Life of a CIA Shadow Warrior" https://www.amazon.com/Black-Ops-Life-Shadow-Warrior/dp/1250271843 Support our show here: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheTeamHouse 00:00 – Start 01:19 – Escaping Castro’s Cuba as a Child 08:00 – Joining the Air Force & Becoming a Pararescueman 11:33 – Ric’s First Exposure to the CIA 15:00 – Undercover With the Contras in Honduras 23:16 – CIA Sabotage Missions Against the Sandinistas 26:31 – A Covert Mission Goes Wrong 35:23 – Running the Southern Front & the Iran-Contra Scandal 40:13 – Becoming a CIA Operations Officer 51:15 – Fighting Terrorists in the Philippines 57:35 – Ric Addresses the CIA Hitman Allegations 1:05:06 – The Original Bin Laden Task Force & North Korea Operations 1:18:08 – Building a CIA Intelligence Capability in Africa 1:22:17 – Inside CIA’s Counterterrorism Center on 9/11 1:31:55 – Building a New Post-9/11 Covert Operations Team 1:58:16 – Blackwater, Intelligence Operations & Life After the CIA 2:18:48 – How to Join the CIA & Advice for Future Officers Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 02

  911, what's your emergency?

• 0:34Speaker 02

  Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 0:38Speaker 03

  911 Nashville returns.

• 0:41Speaker 04

  There's a homicide detective down here.

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  Three bodies on the ground.

• 0:44Speaker 03

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 0:47Speaker 05

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  That's one of the plagues of Bible.

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  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 0:54Speaker 03

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:00Jack Murphy?

  Hi, everyone. Welcome to the team house. This is episode 145, I believe. Yes, episode 145. I'm Jack Murphy here with David Park. I'm back after my little stay in quarantine last week, but JC and his boys didn't want me quite yet, so I'm back. And we are here. We're very happy to be here tonight with our guest, Rick Prado. He is the author of Black Ops, The Life of a CIA Shadow Warrior. Started off kind of an interesting entry into the Central Intelligence Agency, coming from being an Air Force pararescue man, and then a paramilitary guy, and then rising to be the CTC Chief of Operations. So a very interesting

• 1:44Jack Murphy?

  career. I really enjoyed this book. And Rick, thank you so much for joining us tonight.

• 1:49Speaker 07

  Thank you for having me, guys.

• 1:51Jack Murphy?

  Absolutely, man. And I was wondering, you know, as we ask all of our guests about their origin story and kind of their upbringing and where they came from, and you, like several of the other guests we've had on the show are Cuban-American, and that experience and that immigration experience, I think, had a really profound effect on you as a person, as a man. Could you tell us about that, about your family and how you came to America?

• 2:16Speaker 07

  Yeah, I'll be honored to. I was about seven or eight years old when the revolution was peaking. I lived in a town near the mountains where Che Guevara supposedly was operating in. And so at that age, I actually saw firefights right in front of my house, literally one guy that was on the other side of the window, and I was looking through the window to see what was going on. So I saw what war does very early on. But what was really sobering for us was how quickly, once Castro took over, that socialist mass came off and it was full communism, pretty much off the bat. Confiscation of properties, persecution of

• 3:00Speaker 07

  the opposition. I remember being barely ninety years, eight and a half years old and being told that I had to go to the fields and tutor farmers on how to read and write. And I'm eight years old, but I was in uniform. And in school, we were in uniform, and they implicated, if you hear any of your parents say anything bad about the revolution, you got to turn them in. So it was a very toxic environment that even for, you know, a nine-year-old, I could understand and feel that this was so different to what I grew up with. My father,

• 3:40Speaker 07

  who was always a very decisive man and my first hero, he made up his mind and says, we're leaving. Unfortunately, he couldn't get out, my mom couldn't get out. So I was able to get out through a program called Peter Pan Program. And the Peter Pan was, the program was sponsored by the Catholic Church. So and during the two years that it ran, they brought out 14,000 plus kids whose parents could not come out. So in early April of 62, I came to the United States by myself. Ten days later, two weeks later, I was in

• 4:18Speaker 07

  a orphanage in Pueblo, Colorado, the Sacred Heart Orphanage in Pueblo, Colorado. And that in itself was also an experience. So, you know, and it's funny, guys, you know, a lot of people go, oh, my God, you were so little, you had to go through this so much. And I'm amazed that I was not as shook as I should have been, perhaps. But I always remember more than anything else, and this is part of my impetus for things that I have done in life, is the courage of my parents to put an only child on an airplane to a country that I've never been to, been to, and may not even be able to visit. Not for economic

• 5:01Speaker 07

  reasons, we were middle class in Cuba, but for freedom. My dad had that innate passion for freedom, and his only child was not going to, you know, grow up in a communist country.

• 5:12Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, that they loved you so much, they're willing to roll the dice like that with their, with their boy.

• 5:18Speaker 07

  Yeah, when I, when our oldest son was 10, I asked my wife, I think, do you think that we would have the courage to do same? And we both agreed that, you know, you never know how you're going to react until you really do it. So it's a very tough decision. But at the same time, it was a hell of a lesson for me because that's the ultimate price that a parent can pay for the freedom of a child.

• 5:46Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 5:46Speaker 07

  Letting them go.

• 5:47Jack Murphy?

  Right. Did you have, you know, you were very young. Were you aware of what was going on? You know, when they were, when you were with this Catholic organization and they were bringing you to the States? Did you have an overarching awareness of like what was going on?

• 6:07Speaker 07

  Yeah, you know, it's amazing. And I think that when you, when you live a normal life, it's easier to forget the mundane stuff. But this was such a drastic change. So it's such a different period. You know, when we first moved up to Havana to try to get out of the country, as soon as we drove in, I saw three guys hanging from trees and telephone poles with signs around the next that said, "Contra Revolutionaries." So, you know, those things getting printed in your mind very, very early on. Now, it's funny, because I remember clearly getting into the airport with my mom and dad, my mom crying, my dad, not too many years ago before he passed, told me that, I told my mom, if you keep crying,

• 6:52Speaker 07

  I ain't going. And going through the glass that divided them from me, and that's the last thing I remember. I do not remember getting on the plane. I do not remember the flight to Miami. I do not remember where I sat. I only remember when I came through the doors, is what my sight, you know, my memory comes back. And I saw the priest that was there with the sign for the four of us, that there was three other kids, two girls and two guys. So I was very aware of it. And I think that these experiences, in retrospect now, were God's way of forging my metal. So I would end up doing what I was supposed to put on the earth to do.

• 7:35Jack Murphy?

  And you did get reunited with your family. You grew up in Holy, outside Miami, right?

• 7:40Speaker 07

  Yeah, my parents came out a little over eight months later. I was one of the lucky ones. There were kids whose parents never came out or came out five, six years later. So I lucked out in two reasons. One, they were, you know, the orphanage was a little violent, because, you know, you have five different cultures in there and all orphans and all, you know. But the treatment of the place was decent. There was no abuse that I knew of. And the main thing for me is they taught me English. That's all I did for those eight months was learn English from See Spot Run books. And way before your time, guys. But the thing was, when I went back to Miami, eight months later, I could at least help

• 8:22Speaker 07

  my parents catch a bus or do something like that. So.

• 8:27Jack Murphy?

  That's amazing. Yeah. And then as you grew up and, you know, went to American high school and so forth, what was that path that initially took you into the United States Air Force?

• 8:39Speaker 07

  Well, you know, I, I, I grew a conscience in my senior year, just as I was about to graduate. It's, I guess it was a maturity shift and I realized how good I have it. You know, I, I live in this wonderful country. I have a wonderful family, stability. Nobody's trying to take my dad's business away and my parents are the ones who paid the price for that admission. So I, I, I developed a debt of honor. I honestly believe that I needed to show this country my gratitude for taking me and my family in and, and, and a lot of my, my other family, extended family in. So, um, it, it, the, the, uh, the turning point actually was

• 9:21Speaker 07

  kind of interesting was why it was my first semester in college and the hippies put out a sign that, uh, the following day they were going to take down the American flag in protest for Vietnam and burn it. And I said to myself, that ain't gonna happen. So I called a couple of my buddies from high school and, um, it was about 20 hippies. There was about four or five of us, maybe six, and it wasn't a fair fight. And at the end of it, uh, that flag was still flying and I will tell you, I can still remember the blue sky and that flag waving and me feeling for the first time, really, really good about myself.

• 9:59Jack Murphy?

  And you didn't just join the air force either. Like you already must have had something in the back of your mind that you wanted to be an elite soldier.

• 10:06Speaker 07

  Well, you know, um, I, I was, I've always been competitive. Uh, I started martial arts when I was 15, had some great instructors that were former Marines and former this and that. Um, but a- again, I think that God puts, puts us where we're supposed to be. Uh, I chose para rescue because I was taking an oceanography class. I was going to be a marine science technician. And one of the guys in the class was a former PJ and we ended up sitting together. We ended up talking and, uh, eventually he told me all about para rescue and I said, sign me up. So six months after, not even about four months after that incident, uh, with the hippies, I, I joined the air force para rescue. Yeah.

• 10:51Jack Murphy?

  And went through that pipeline and got qualified and in the PJs, you had some sort of, of formative experiences too. Well, I remember in your book, you talk about a plane crash that you responded to one time and for the first time really seeing kind of death on a large scale.

• 11:06Speaker 07

  Yeah, I had just literally just got in my beret and, uh, when, uh, the, that, I think it was flight L 10 11 in Miami, uh, 72, Christmas Eve or something like that, that, uh, the altimeter was screwed up and they thought they were X altitude and they literally plowed into the Everglades and we were summoned. I, you know, I was doing 100 and some miles an hour to get back to base, uh, cause I was at my parents' house and, um, down at Homestead. And, um, yeah, I didn't get to do much because by the time I got there, um, you know, the, the, the active, you know, the, the duty, um, uh, team was already on the ground, but we did get to pull some of

• 11:47Speaker 07

  the bodies out and, and, uh, it was pretty gruesome and at the same time, some magical moments, you know, 90 some people, I believe it was that survived. So, uh, it, it was again, part of, part of that, that, that lessons in life that you, that you see the fragility and the endurance of the body.

• 12:05Jack Murphy?

  And then what was your, uh, your first exposure to the central intelligence agency?

• 12:11Speaker 07

  Well, you know, uh, my, my, my reason for going into para rescue was I wanted to go to Vietnam and my number for draft was astronomical. My parents were very happy because they, they were confident that they, I would never get called and I show up and go, hey, I'm leaving in 30 days. So, um, my, my goal was to go to Vietnam and when I got out of, you know, when I finally got my beret and, and the follow-on training, it was already 1973, um, Vietnam was winding down. So in 74, I, I decided to stay in the reserves completely and, uh, I applied to the agency the first time. They were not hiring. Those were really bad years for, uh, the agency

• 12:52Speaker 07

  and the military. Um, subsequently around 79, I reapplied and this time they asked me to come in as a, uh, contract medic. I was riding rescue with, um, Miami day, uh, fire rescue. And, you know, again, being a para rescuer, I was already an EMT too. So there was, uh, you know, easy, easy, easy day for me to get into that. And so they needed, uh, a, uh, paramilitary medic to, uh, help their special activities division, ground branch guys. And that was my first exposure to do those guys. Um, they got to know me. I, I obviously made a good impression

• 13:30Speaker 07

  on them. Um, I, I did my best to, to carry my weight and as luck would have it, um, in 9, in 81, when, uh, Reagan took over and he decided to, um, do something about the growing communist threat in, in Latin America. Uh, he declared a covert action program against the Sandinistas who had declared themselves communist. And the agency did not have a native speaking, a native Spanish speaking guy with paramilitary background. So they tracked me down and that was, that was my backdooring into a, to a staff job.

• 14:07Jack Murphy?

  And that was kind of like this moment for you where you were like, not only yes, but hell yes. Like they didn't really need to recruit you. You were, you were already recruited.

• 14:15Speaker 07

  Yeah, I'll be new. It was a lifelong dream and, uh, it's funny because I remember when the guy called me, he, uh, he says, look, we have something for you. Do, when do you think you could come in? I said, I only have one question. Is this full-time or is this part-time? I wasn't going to take any more part-time. And they said, no, this is full-time. And I said, I'm there. When do you want me here? He says, you don't want to know what it's about? I go, I'm there.

• 14:39Jack Murphy?

  I'll sweep the floors. I'll, yeah, I'll do whatever.

• 14:41Speaker 07

  Exactly. Bring a coffee to the boss. I just want to get in.

• 14:45Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. So what, so what was that like? Now you're kind of getting brought into the belly of the beast. Uh, without, you didn't have a lot of like formal training with the agency at this point either.

• 14:56Speaker 07

  Zero. Um, I, I have my street smarts. Um, I had my martial arts background.

• 15:04Jack Murphy?

  Your medical training from the air force?

• 15:06Speaker 07

  Yep. In my para rescue training, which was, you know, is beyond just the techniques of stuff is, uh, you know, learning your, your limits, which are not what you usually think and, and, um, being able to do things above and beyond. So that, you know, that, that steals you, you know, you, I, I was pretty confident going in, but I had no training. There was no time. I literally was in the headquarters area for less than two weeks before I went to Honduras.

• 15:29Jack Murphy?

  Wow. And so what was like?

• 15:31Speaker 07

  In alias.

• 15:33Jack Murphy?

  As Alex, right?

• 15:34Speaker 07

  Yes, that's correct. Captain Alex originally.

• 15:37Jack Murphy?

  So what was like, what was that like hitting the ground in Honduras and, um, and, and some of the people you worked for and the mission that you received at that point?

• 15:46Speaker 07

  Well, you know, again, I've lived a blessed life. I, I land in Honduras. It was only, uh, five of us when this program started, you know, five years later, there was probably a hundred guys on the ground there. And my boss was Colonel Ray. Um, he was legendary. He had jumped into Corrigador at the age of 17 or 18. Um, special forces guy went to, uh, it was our guy in Laos, uh, during the Vietnam time, uh, bigger than life guy, both physically and, and, and everything else. And he was just a wonderful boss and he mentored me a lot. I mean, he was always very, uh, very good about explaining what I needed to do. But at the same time, there was no time for micromanagement. I lived in those camps by myself. I, for the first 14 months of that

• 16:31Speaker 07

  program, I was the only American allowed to set foot in the contra camps. Because again, this was a covert operation. And as the title of my book, Black Ops says, it indicates, that's when you're doing operations where the American hand has to be remained hidden. So I was there as a Honduran captain. Eventually I got promoted to quote unquote major.

• 16:55Jack Murphy?

  With a, with a requisite pay bump, of course.

• 16:57Speaker 07

  Of course. Yeah.

• 17:00Jack Murphy?

  Uh, and I, I thought it was really interesting in the book too. You talk about how it was sort of like, it started off as an Argentinian program and then America sort of jumped on there and you had to, as a, as a young PM guy, had to balance America's objectives with this Argentinian force there that was really not up to snuff.

• 17:21Speaker 07

  Yeah. You know, the Argentines did, didn't do much for, for the cause. Um, but they were the ones that were helping, uh, bringing in some old, you know, Mauser rifles and stuff like that to give the Contras. And they're the ones that reached out to the, to the CIA, um, even before Reagan took over. It's just nothing was being done until Reagan took over. So, um, they were there, but they were literally just a city presence. Uh, I remember only one time that one of those guys went to the camps with me and I stayed and he went back in the helicopter. So, um, they, they were, and these guys were not paramilitary guys. These guys were primarily

• 18:00Speaker 07

  a thuggy police force. Um, and that, that ruled, you know, uh, you know, uh, Argentina at the time. And, uh, they, they were not contributing and, and yeah, I mean, my boss put me in charge of their finances, just to really dig it into them. Cause, um, that we knew that they were screwing with us and eventually they, they, uh, they got kicked out.

• 18:22Jack Murphy?

  And you said there's some sort of like, uh, institutionalized racism, I guess, in the sense that you had these, uh, the mosquito Indians, the indigenous people that you assessed could be a very effective fighting force, but these guys were like, no, fuck them. Like we don't, we don't even want to deal with them because they're inadequate or whatever.

• 18:41Speaker 07

  Yeah. It's, it's again, uh, the, the Argentines that were there were very prejudiced. Um, the Nicaraguan's a lot less because again, they're, they're all Nicaraguan's. They just happen to be, you know, although the mosquitoes do not consider themselves Nicaraguan's. They, they want to be an autonomous nation, but they are natural hunter, trackers, fighters. Uh, the jungle for them was their terrain. And, and it was obvious to me from the, from the very beginning that they, they had the fire in their belly. But for me, my job was to be equitable with all, all the camps that I had. And, and I had a real big fight with, uh, the one general that was there. And I remember clearly we're, we're sitting across from each other at the Stado Mayor and, um, he said, well,

• 19:26Speaker 07

  you know, this is going to go here and there. And I go, I said, sorry, general, that is not. A third of that is going to the mosquitoes. And he started to say something. I said, sir, I'm, you know who I am speaking for and that is the decision. That's the logistics, how it's going to be split up. And he literally had a pencil in his hand and he broke it. He was so angry. There wasn't much you could do about it because it was our money and we, uh, we weren't going to put up with that crap.

• 19:52Jack Murphy?

  It's kind of reminiscent of like when we have the. Like the former Vietnam guys on and the way like the Vietnamese treated the Montagnards and

• 19:59Speaker 07

  That's right.

• 20:00Jack Murphy?

  And the, you know, the other natives, you know, the indigenous around there.

• 20:03Speaker 07

  That's correct.

• 20:04Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 20:05Speaker 07

  Good analogy.

• 20:06Jack Murphy?

  And so in the meantime, you're going around these camps, you're trying to train these guys up, um, potentially prepare them for an offensive against the Sandinistas. Doing some limited cross-border raids, setting in some cache site locations to maybe support that offensive. Kind of what was, uh, that I guess the escalation you could say of kind of like trying to build up this, this capability that you've been charged with.

• 20:32Speaker 07

  Well, you know, when, when the first time I went to the camps, I was slack-jawed. I mean, these, these poor guys and gals had nothing. Most of them were barefoot. They had old Mauser bolt-action rifles, a few rusty AKs captured from the Sandinistas. No medical facility, you know, food was almost nonexistent. So the first thing for us was, you know, logistics, getting the logistics in there to provide them with medicine and food, regular food budgets, money.

• 21:03Speaker 07

  And then subsequently starting the training and, and because I was the only guy allowed to the camps, I did all the training for these guys from patrolling to radio communications to headspace and timing on a 50 cal to the RPG-7, which I became pretty darn good with. After training, we had 10 camps and I had to train them all. So I lived in the camps for the three years that I was there, a little over three years. And Monday through Friday, I slept in a jungle hammock.

• 21:35Jack Murphy?

  Wow.

• 21:35Speaker 07

  And you know, guys, not once did I wake up in the morning and say, what am I doing here?

• 21:41Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 21:42Speaker 07

  Or geez, I wish I wasn't here.

• 21:45Speaker 07

  You know, I, I had a wonderful career. I've had a wonderful life, but that period in my life was blessed. And at first I didn't really, you know, understand why it felt so good. Because again, I'm, you know, I'm 30 years old. I'm, I'm still more testosterone than brains. And I, I realized that I was now being able to pay back for what they did to my parents. Because the same monster that had consumed Nicaragua, the Soviet Union using Cubans as proxy and, you know, the Nicaragua and Sandinistas being proxies for the Salvadoran insurgencies. You know, I was now there helping these guys and gals cut off some of those tentacles from this monster.

• 22:29Speaker 07

  So it really felt good. And you know, every night I would talk to the different guys and different campfires. And eventually I would always ask, you know, why are you here? And each one had a very pure reason for being there. You know, they burned down my church. They raped my daughter. Uh, it, it wasn't geopolitics. It wasn't Marxism versus capitalism. It was the purest, I want my freedom back for me and my family.

• 22:57Jack Murphy?

  Right. It was freedom versus tyranny.

• 23:01Speaker 07

  Indeed.

• 23:01Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. And over time, that, that they did go on the offense, as I recall readings. But it was difficult as a covert program to keep those kind of logistics lines fed and keep these guys supplied, right?

• 23:17Speaker 07

  Yeah, they, uh, we, we did, uh, they started doing some raids and ambushes and patrolling and some sniper work and that kind of stuff that I taught them.

• 23:26Speaker 07

  But again, the, the Persians were hit and run and come back or, or, or once they had certain little safe areas, but they were all within 10, 20 miles of the border. And that's pretty, pretty thick country out there. So we needed to board logistics and eventually that started developing. You know, the logistic capability of airdrops and helicopters to at least the camps. And then buying them horses and mules and whatever it took to carry some of that stuff inside.

• 23:54Jack Murphy?

  Do you want to talk a little bit about, uh, eventually you kind of moved over to doing, I guess you could say strategic level operations with some of these sabotage missions that you kind of coordinated with the mosquitoes and some of the other, other players, some of the other Contras that were in this game. I thought that was a really interesting part of your book.

• 24:14Speaker 07

  Yeah, the, like, like I said, I was fascinated with the mosquitoes because for one thing, you know, with the regular Nicaraguans, there was, there was no culture shock. You know, I, I spoke native Spanish. I, you know, I know the customs. Uh, there's a few words that are different, but there, there was no culture shock. But with a mosquito, it was very different. This is a very different society with a different language. Uh, there's probably more mosquitoes that speak English than they speak Spanish. It's, it's, it's really a fascinating, fascinating bunch of folks. But what happened was the headquarters came in, our headquarters came in and said, hey, guys, all these raids and ambushes are really good and, and you guys are doing a great job with the, building this force up. But we need to get the Sandinistas' attention.

• 24:56Speaker 07

  We need them to understand that this is not a ragtag, a bunch of, uh, you know, rebels just trying to overthrow them. We, we need to smack them. So during one of my trips to the, uh, to the Mosquita, I have my hat with my scuba badge on. And one of the mosquitoes comes up to me and he goes, um, are you a diver? And I go, yeah, I'm a military diver. And he goes, well, the six of us are, are lobster divers. And these guys were hard as woodpecker lips. I mean, you know, I kept that in mind. So that's when I came up with the idea of creating a, a team of, we call them the barracudas, uh, of mosquito divers that could infiltrate Nicaragua and, and do damage.

• 25:39Speaker 07

  And the first place that, uh, that we chose, uh, on, you know, after talking to them about, you know, realities, uh, was Puerto Cabezas. Puerto Cabezas is the northernmost, northeast most port for Nicaragua. And that was the belly button where Cuba, or I should say the Soviet Union via Cuba was bringing in all the, the, uh, the paramilitary, you know, ammo and equipment and fuel and everything that they needed. So doing damage to that pier, uh, was a very high priority and it was, it was send a message. So, uh, the requirement back, went back to headquarters. He says, look, we got, Prado says he's got some divers that he can train to military standards.

• 26:25Speaker 07

  I took the six, two washed out and the other four were, like I said, just really dedicated to the cause. And headquarters is the one that came up with the actual device, for lack of a better word, based on 80 pounds of C4, um, that was placed under the pier. Uh, we went out there, uh, and it, it was one of these beautiful missions where, which are rare in our profession, uh, where just about everything goes right.

• 26:51Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 26:51Speaker 07

  And, uh, our guys were able to blow it up.

• 26:55Speaker 07

  I was with them in the water when they, when they first launched. I was there, you know, when they got back, we, uh, we went back to, uh, to Honduras. And two days later, uh, for the first time in my life, I saw satellite overhead of Puerto Cabezas. And that was, that was pretty thrilling.

• 27:11Jack Murphy?

  And then there was another operation where things, it was a, a bridge, I believe you guys tried to take out. And that, that one kind of went a little disastrous, but you, you had some balls, I think, going in to kind of pull your boys out, right? That was, that was an interesting one.

• 27:25Speaker 07

  Yeah, you know, I, uh, when I speak to my brother in pararescue, that's, that's the mission that I always talk about. And I, I gave a talk down in scuba school, uh, a couple of years ago in Key West for the combat swimmers. Exactly on that because, um, I, I did go in and dad my guys out, but the, but the, the reader's digest of the story is, you know, all of a sudden our success in Puerto Cabezas, uh, motivated headquarters to say, we need to do the same thing against Corinto. Now Corinto is in the opposite side on the west side, northwest side of, of the country. And it is the economic belly button. This is where all their goods that they would sell or goods that they would buy would transit.

• 28:06Speaker 07

  And, um, Port Corinto is actually like, like an island, for lack of better words. And it has a bridge that connects it to the mainland and to the main highway. So the idea that they had asked us to do was to topple the bridge. You know, four platter charges on the pylons on the same side, get them to buckle over with a weight and, you know, it would take them

• 28:30Speaker 07

  at least a year or more to, to be able to repair that. So that would have been a hell of a blow. So I, they asked me if my guys could do it. And I said, absolutely. That's easy day. But then there was a political curveball and, and I've, I've said this many, many times, you cannot run covert operations with politics, the optics of politics. And this was the, well, you know, the mosquitoes did it in, in, on the east coast. We want this to be a mixed team. So the, the, the regular FDN guys can also feel like they're, they're contributing that. There was a little bit of jealousy about the mosquitoes scoring the very first left hook to the jaw to these guys. So what they insisted on was, since I had the divers,

• 29:13Speaker 07

  that the boat crew was going to be with, what the mosquito called the Spaniards, the, the Spanish-speaking Nicaraguans. And I told my boss, I said, boss, you know, uh, this ain't going to fly. These guys do not trust each other. He went upstairs with it and they came back and said, no, we're doing it that way. And, uh, I sent my, my team in, uh, two boats, uh, two divers each and two, uh, boat, boat pilots each. And they made it into Corinto. Um, when they got to Corinto, they noticed a lot more traffic than they had, that we had predicted.

• 29:48Jack Murphy?

  Maritime traffic.

• 29:48Speaker 07

  They had expected, yeah. So, you know, the, the, uh, the, the tensions were high and the guys were jittery. And my divers said, look, you know, we're not going to get in the water because we know that you're going to leave us here. And, uh, you know, you're talking eight guys on two boats. Everybody's got guns and explosives. So, uh, you don't want to get into a contest and they decided to regroup and said, look, you know, we'll abort and come back and do it another time. Well, unfortunately, we had given them these very high-speed boats, but they were not seaworthy as far as reliability. So both boats developed engine problems coming back. Uh, the first boat conquered out and, and actually was able to get into the mangroves just outside of, of Corinto.

• 30:32Speaker 07

  And, uh, the second boat made it out to the Gulf of Fonseca, but still in Nicaraguan waters. When the boat went kaput and, um, I've been, I've been up for at least 24 hours already with these guys. You know, we had secure comms. I'm following their tracks, you know, what they were doing. I knew they were coming back. And, uh, I went to my boss, Leon, who was the base chief. Uh, he, and I said, Leon, you know, I'm not leaving my guys behind. He says, I know that. What, what do you have in mind? So what I did was reverted to my pararescue training. I got my helicopter pilot, these young Honduran pilots. They're early twenties and I told them that we were going to go out to sea.

• 31:12Speaker 07

  Uh, before we did, we, I made some fuel expedient stable rigs, uh, six of them. So I could get my, you know, my four guys and, and, uh, myself out if that's what it took. And what we were going to do was I, I jumped in, um, well, I was carrying water, gas, tools, you know, spark plugs and all that kind of stuff. And two sticks of, of C4 because I wasn't going to let that boat, uh, a high-speed boat to the Sandinistas and the evidence, because it was, you know, obviously, you know, something that was not native to the area. So I jumped into the water and what, what in pararescue back then, we used to call them low and slows is 15 knots and 15,

• 31:56Speaker 07

  feet above the water. Well, my Honduran pilots, as good as they were, they were not water pilots. So the 15-foot rule did not apply here. So this was a high and slow. Uh, it was at least 35 feet when I jumped out of that damn thing. And, uh, and it's, you know, I'm used to the, the shorter ride, I'm all like, oh my God.

• 32:17Speaker 07

  But no, it was, it was a good entry and, um, I, we were able to start the boat and the boat, um, it was spark plugs. It was spark plugs issue. They had all fouled up. Their, their systems were, were not up to par. We went back to base to the island that we were at and that same boat, we refitted it. And now I went out with two, um, of our boat captains. One was a Cuban, uh, Bay of Pigs, a veteran, who was the senior captain. And the other one was an American from our, uh, from a maritime branch. And we needed to go back and get our second boat because our second boat had now spent, you know, 24 hours hiding in a mangrove, uh, uh, just outside Corinto. And they were dead in the water. They, they could not get the boat to start.

• 33:02Speaker 07

  So, uh, we went out there and the seas got really rough. There were at least 12-foot seas beating the crap out of the, out of the boat. Uh, we lost first, I think it was our UHF. We lost first. There was an aircraft in the air supporting us. We had VHF and, and, uh, uh, ICOM radios. And, um, the Sandinistas, obviously because of the helicopter incident that morning, and all the chatter going back and forth, they knew something was going on. So they were out there in force. And they started popping flares, um, you know, I'm probably a mile or so away from us, but we didn't know that. We just seen flares coming up and like trying to light up the sky. And then they started doing recon by fire. They would take

• 33:46Speaker 07

  and, and put ra, uh, ra, uh, rounds down range, stop and see if anybody returned fire. And then they, they could, you know, gaggle on there. So, but I had an M6, you know, an AR-15 and a Browning nine millimeter. So I was not exactly set for a firefight. Right. And, um, so we were out there. We were able to, uh, triangulate where the boat was actually with the help of the aircraft and the communications and, uh, we were able to triangulate where they were at. And we high-tailed it back to, uh, to the island, uh, our base. Uh, but our guys knew that we were getting him in the morning. I promised them that. And I mean, I was beat to hell. Um, the, once the adrenaline wore off. Right. Um, you know, I've, I've been up for probably close to 48 hours by then.

• 34:33Speaker 07

  Two adrenaline dumps, one with the, with a jump into the water and now I was spending hours out there bouncing around, getting chased by Sandinistas. So, um, I was smoked. Yeah. When, when I got back from that. But the next morning we went out in six Piranha boats that went out there and got the guys back out. So, um, the, the mission was, was an abortion. Uh, but the rescue, uh, was what we're supposed to do for our folks. And I'm very proud to say it got me my first medal in the agency. That, that's amazing.

• 35:03Jack Murphy?

  And so you were down there for quite a while doing ops. Um, I guess, did this whole thing come to the, the covert program down there come to its conclusion with, uh, Eugene Hassan Foss, uh, parachuting out of an airplane into the jungle? You want to talk about that a little bit?

• 35:21Speaker 07

  Yeah. Uh, you know, the, the American hand, uh, became obvious after, after the first year and a half or so. That's when they, you know, after that, uh, I was, uh, able to have some help at the camps. They brought in some, um, um, former SF, Spanish speaking guys. And, uh, so we had three of them, very good guys. Uh, and they were at different camps, but I would still go to the camps because I was the equities. I was the guy that they knew, uh, in the camps. So I still did my, my regular, you know, visit two camps a week kind of stuff. Uh, so the American hand was starting to show. And, uh, but the Hassan Fuss incident was much later. I mean, I was already gone. I left in 84. Uh, I went through spy school.

• 36:05Speaker 07

  And then low and behold, I got sent to Costa Rica. Uh, at the last minute, I was supposed to go to Salvador. My household goods were actually in Salvador already. And we were supposed to, I was just recently married. I had a, you know, my son was a couple of months old, uh, older son. And, uh, they asked for me by name in Costa Rica because they wanted me to run the southern front. Uh, which was in stark contrast to the way we ran things in, in Honduras, side of the house, because the Costa Ricans were actually hostile to the Contras. They were afraid that the, the Sandinistas would retaliate if they supported the, the Contras. So they were literally hunting us down. And by us, I mean, me included. They wanted to see who was helping these guys.

• 36:47Speaker 07

  So now I'm running, uh, these programs, trying to, you know, recruiting people to get me, help me get people out through maritime means or air, air means. And at the same time, having a job at the embassy, coat and tie. Right. So it was, uh, more of a little, the, the miniature French resistance kind of concept where, you know, car pickups and all this, you know, uh, crash cars, picking them up, taking them to meetings. You know, exfiltrating them out of the country so they could get training, bring them back in and all that kind of stuff. So it was a very, very different, uh, um, you know, mission. And that's when Hassan Fuss happened. Hassan Fuss was an airdrop that was not meant for the south.

• 37:28Speaker 07

  It was actually meant for the North FDN guys who had ventured, uh, further south. So when his, uh, when his aircraft was shot down, I got, that night I got a call immediately from the, uh, our radio, our, uh, com center. And the Nicaraguan com center, uh, it said, hey, boss, you need to come in. There's something huge going on. So I, I hopped, went over. And, um, they told me, says the, uh, an American plane was shot down, well, a resupply plane was shut down. And, um, we don't know if there's any survivors, but I said, I want every single available contra to form a line and start walking in that direction. We need to get to that site,

• 38:10Speaker 07

  recover anything classified and see if we have any survivors. Well, you know, the ops plan was always for our pilots. If, if you crash landed in the south, start walking south because you're going to run to some country somewhere. Uh, because we'd be looking for you. Well, Hassan Fuss didn't. Hassan Fuss, even though he was a former Marine, um, he just stayed put. He, you know, make, made a jungle hammock out of his, uh, parachute that was there when the Sandinistas came. And he had all kinds of compromising stuff on him, you know, phone numbers and names and, you know, who, who the, you know, who the pilots were and all that kind of stuff that were, they're doing the resupply. And that got the ball rolling. And yeah, that was the, uh, the beginning of what eventually became the, the Iran Contra scandal. Wow.

• 38:56Jack Murphy?

  Hey, Jack. What's going on? Guess who our new presenting?

• 39:00Speaker 05

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• 39:02Jack Murphy?

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• 39:44Jack Murphy?

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• 40:26Speaker 05

  I have the C4 Tactical Field Watch. It's solar powered too. I'm loving it. And it's funny because I had this laying on my coffee table the other day, actually, and my homie came in and to watch football or whatever, and he's a watch guy, and he's like, oh, is that that Vera one? He, I'm not even making this up. Like, I'm not even bullshitting. I'm like, holy shit, yeah, like, they're gonna be presenting sponsor for the Team House. And they sent us all a bunch of watches. Like, yo, I love this watch. And I literally sold the watch. I sent them the link, the Team House link, and I'm like, yo, buy a watch from this, from this link. Because if you do buy a watch from that link, which is vera watches.com/the team house, you, when you purchase

• 41:08Speaker 05

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• 41:26Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, it's nice. I really like the, like, nice big watch face.

• 41:30Speaker 05

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• 41:58Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, absolutely.

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• 44:34Speaker 02

  911, what's your emergency? Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets. 911 Nashville returns. It's a homicide detective doing here. Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. Satan swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 44:53Jack Murphy?

  That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 45:04Jack Murphy?

  Oh, Rick, I do want to point out, you mentioned briefly, your time down in Honduras, I mean, you were a CIA contractor, a paramilitary contractor. And then they realized, I guess, at a certain point, they're like, we have to formalize this guy and bring him in as a CIA officer. They put you through like a crash program at Georgetown so you could get your degree, because you need a college degree to be a CIA officer. And then you go to the farm, and now you're legit. And then, and then we kind of swing back to Costa Rica, which you had mentioned, and then you get sent down to, I'm guessing, a South American country, targeting another Marxist group. You want to tell us a little bit about that experience?

• 45:48Speaker 07

  Yeah, and again, it wasn't a planned thing. The same way that Costa Rica materialized, this South American country that had two major communist insurgencies there, one Soviet-backed, Cuban-backed, and the other one is more of a Chinese mentality, you know, they're, they're, and very, both were very in close affiliation with the narco-traffickers, and that's how they got their money and guns. So I ended up going to this, this country, because again, my bosses said, this was a time where terrorism was just coming up. One of my mentors, Dewey

• 46:28Speaker 07

  Claridge, started the Counter-Terrorist Center in 1986. So this is 1988, so it's just two years after the center was created. The agency started seeing the writing on the wall that we are going to be switching, not switching, but adding on to our operational directives, that the fact that terrorism was going to be high on the OD. And you got to understand that there's a lot of difference between dealing with and recruiting people from the diplomatic or business circuit, and, you know, you know, meeting and developing and recruiting people from a walk of life where violence is away. And so that, that's why I think the beginning

• 47:12Speaker 07

  of the paramilitary guys really coming up to, to the forefront, because now you had guys who had military training, that kind of backbone, and were operations officers. They started calling them dual-track case officers. And that's why they asked me, they said, you got native Spanish, you've proven yourself, this place down south is, is a mess, they really need you. And I said, yes, sir, I'm gone. And it was a great tour. I mean, it was my first CT tour. I actually recruited a terrorist, which is well detailed in the book, through some coercion, but nonetheless, he provided some incredible information for, for about

• 47:55Speaker 07

  a year. Took down a couple of cells of terrorist guys that were planning attacks against the US Embassy, worked together with the DEA there. They had the program Snowcap was huge. And there were times I would go out with them in their helicopters and go out and debrief people out in Ayacucho and Tingo Maria and all these places that were super Indian territory. So it was a great tour.

• 48:20Jack Murphy?

  There's one operation you talk about where at some portions, you kind of disguised yourself as like a hobo out on the street, and put an electronic bug in the leg of a kitchen table. I thought that was pretty cool.

• 48:33Speaker 07

  Yeah, we had, uh, we had, uh, some intel, uh, that, uh, these guys that were terror cell that was meeting at this lady's house. And the lady, what they didn't know, the lady was friendly with a cop that, um, reported it, the fact that these guys were kicking her out of the house to have meetings. So we, uh, infiltrated a table with a, with a bug in, in the, uh, in the leg of it. And, you know, battery packed that would last months. But now we, we had a, a observation post and a listening post and LPOP, uh, in a building not too far back that was, that was pretty high. But there's a thing called a path loss test that has to be done. You have to go and check to see

• 49:14Speaker 07

  what frequencies work best because this is a very fragile connection. So my job was to walk in front of that house back and forth a couple of times while hitting the button that would activate different signals and the guys up there are, are doing their tech stuff that I don't quite understand. And, um, so I'm walking and I did, I didn't, I didn't shave for two or three days. I didn't bathe for two and I had this, you know, local garb. So I looked more like a, you know, a, a regular native, uh, guy there with a, you know, growth of beard and a hat and dirty clothes. And I'm walking by, by the house and as soon as I'm literally in front of the house, the door opens

• 49:55Speaker 07

  and five of these guys come out and literally bumped into me, the five guys. And being the kind of people that were, they started chewing me out and, you know, I had a Browning nine millimeter carries 15 rounds and I'm going like, I could ruin your day.

• 50:09Jack Murphy?

  Right, right.

• 50:09Speaker 07

  You know, but at the same time, I already knew from, from, you know, my experiences before that in our, in our, in our business, if you draw your weapon, your mission's compromised.

• 50:19Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 50:19Speaker 07

  So I, I had to really swallow my pride and say, but, but don't, you know, I, they just walk off like a, like a little cholo that was hurt and they were laughing and, you know, they were, they had a soccer ball in their hand. And, um, but we got the path loft test. So we got them eventually we broke up that cell. Yeah, that was a lot of fun.

• 50:37Jack Murphy?

  You, you talk about in your book about that, that very notion, that subject that a lot of people see the CIA, especially guys like you as like assassins, like you're these cold, cold, stone cold killers. But the reality of being a CIA officer is like, if you have to draw your gun, if you have to get into a high speed pursuit with a car chase, your mission has failed. Like you, you blew it, you blew it.

• 50:59Speaker 07

  Yeah, absolutely. And your mission not only failed, it could most likely be compromised, which then becomes a political embarrassment to, to us because we are Americans, no matter how much we try to hide it. And, you know, you, you guys hit on something that's very important to me. And, and that's the reason why I wrote the book was because, as you know, most people learn from Hollywood. And the perception that my agency, um, the, the perception that people have of my agency is a maligned organization full of backstabbing, treacherous, you know, uh, maniacal killers that, uh,

• 51:34Jack Murphy?

  Break the law.

• 51:34Speaker 07

  overthrow governments without congressional approvals and, and, uh, you know, womanize and drink and everything. Nothing could be further from the truth. And that was the main impetus for me to write the book because, look, guys, we, we, we're a small agency. We, we're, we're smaller than the FBI. We're definitely not major services like Army, Navy or Air Force. Uh, and we have a hundred and thirty seven stars on our wall of honor. And those are a hundred and thirty seven souls, a lot of them anonymous, uh, who gave up their lives for this country. And to be portrayed

• 52:14Speaker 07

  in, in the way that Hollywood portrays the agency is something that I cannot watch those movies. I can watch a fantasy movie. I can watch a James Bond movie and, and, and enjoy it because it's fantasy.

• 52:23Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 52:24Speaker 07

  It's not real. I'm still waiting for my Austin Martin, right? Um, but, you know, seeing these guys, um, it's just, it's, it's completely different way of life. Uh, yes, you have to have some skills. Yes, you have to know how to shoot because you have to survive. You have to be able to crash and bang and pit and do all these things. But if you are doing that, um, that mission is compromised. And, and that where, that's where awareness, uh, really kicks in, um, over, you know, and the, the story is in the Philippines where awareness, uh, saved our, saved our lives. And so.

• 52:58Jack Murphy?

  Do you want to talk to us about that? About? Actually, if you don't mind, cause Rick, like you bring up a really interesting point and the fact that you were involved in, you know, the, the Contra and San Denisa thing, like that was kind of, that's probably your first exposure to how you would get represented in the media back here because a lot of the media at the time was like, the CIA is building these death squads, right? The School of Americas and, and all this stuff. But that wasn't what was going on. You weren't building these teams to go in and savage villages.

• 53:32Speaker 07

  No, on the contrary, I mean, that was something that they were prohibited from doing, you know, the, we always told them, if you have collateral damage, you're doing more harm than good to the cause. And we, you know, we, I'm not saying that didn't happen because war is war.

• 53:46Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 53:46Speaker 07

  But, um, it was, it was pretty, pretty, uh, pretty much over with oversight. Um, yeah. I mean, you know, the, it's the Chuck Norris, good guys, we're black kind of mentality. The people think that we have all these teams that are going to go out there and shoot things up. Now, as you know, for our special activities division, special activities center now, a ground branch, the, all those guys, we all come from the, the, the soft side of, of our military. So that's what makes us dual track case officers. We are regular case officers that happen to have these paramilitary skills that we can go to crappier places. And, and one of them was the Philippines. That's why that, why I was sent there.

• 54:24Jack Murphy?

  So, so there, you're saying that you were never on a hit team that was stationed France, ready to get called up at any moment to eliminate a, a, a target that inside of Paris?

• 54:37Speaker 07

  No, uh, we did put, I did put together and propose a program at the end of my career. And that's later in the book, uh, that, that did establish the team that was supposed to be multipurpose. But, uh, you know, the reality is the, the greater majority of CIA officers never shoot in anger. Um, because that is, you know, we're, we're a tradecraft base. We need to do, whereas bugging a safe house or, or, or recruiting somebody or do it a B and E into an embassy, whatever it is, um, we have to be able to not be noticed. We need to fly under the radar. So, uh, there's places where you can't even carry a weapon.

• 55:21Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 55:22Speaker 07

  So, um, yeah, the, the hidden concept, I mean, you know, there's a difference between, uh, stuff that goes on in Afghanistan and Iraq, for example, and Yemen, you know, Yemen and a couple of other places. Um, the, the rest of our work is, is on the streets, especially we're back to that now. Uh, after 21 years of war, the military and the US government had realized that, uh, and this started about four, four, uh, four years ago, I guess. Um, to, hey, we gotta do less warfighting and more war prevention. So that's why some of the restructuring, this going back on to, you know, train the trainers in different countries, buttress places like Ukraine

• 56:03Speaker 07

  and, and get that going. So, but no, no, no hit teams. My, my tour in, in, in, uh, the Philippines was my first liaison tour. Um, and I worked with the, with the police constabulary, the Navy and the, uh, the army there to fight the new people's army who were brutal. They, they were in the streets. Uh, so matter of fact, the six or eight months before I got there, they had killed the legendary Nick Rowe.

• 56:29Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 56:29Speaker 07

  In an assassination in, in Manila and literally a month or so before I got there, they, they shot two Air Force guys up at Clark Air Force Base. And the, the teams that did this were called sparrows.

• 56:40Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 56:41Speaker 07

  The MPA sparrows. And they were, they were lethal. I mean, these guys knew what they were doing. They were stone cold killers. And then the other group that was down there that we were also working against was the Abu Sayyaf down in the Mindanao. And those are the radical Muslim, um, guerrillas down there.

• 56:58Jack Murphy?

  Did, did, uh, you ever get to meet, uh, Teddy Medina after he was captured?

• 57:03Speaker 07

  No, sir. No.

• 57:04Jack Murphy?

  Here's a sparrow hitman. I think you referenced him in your book, uh.

• 57:07Speaker 07

  Yeah, he, he's the one that makes the video, uh, that's in YouTube that you could actually see how these guys operate. And, uh, I saw it firsthand. I mean, you know, these, these guys are pretty, pretty cold.

• 57:19Jack Murphy?

  I, I, I have a question for you about that, but I, I wanted to bring up first, there's a, there's a, a bit in, in Rick's book where you talk about as a, a young paramilitary guy, you'd always heard these rumors in the agency that there's this secret elite team behind the scenes, even more secret than we are, that goes out and does these like hits and super secret stuff. And then you, you went up to be like SIS three or four. I mean, you were a pretty senior guy and you came to real, it's actually none of that exists. Those teams don't exist.

• 57:48Speaker 07

  No, I mean, we, we used to call it the, the agency of the basement, you know, we, we kept saying, there's got to be more to this. Hey, listen, let me tell you, the, the agency does some incredible stuff. Um, yeah, I, I, I mean, every, every officer in that, in that, in that agency was worth his or her salt. Uh, and you know, from reading the book that I have a lot of good stories about the dedication of some of our female officers. Uh, I'm a big fan of using females in, in, in the ways that we do for tradecraft and stuff. And, uh, but yeah, it's, it's a completely different game. We always thought that, you know, and it was more of a joke, but we're going like, there's gotta be, you know, I bet you there's something in that basement where there's somebody with the elite, you know, it's, it's one of these fantasies in back of our minds, even though we're doing stuff that other people are fantasizing about doing.

• 58:33Jack Murphy?

  Right, right.

• 58:33Speaker 07

  Pretty, pretty cool.

• 58:34Jack Murphy?

  I think that everybody who's ever been like at, you know, at a, a high tier unit, you're always, you know, you always joke around about eventually somebody's going to tap you on their shoulder and go, you passed. Welcome to the real unit, you know, welcome to the real organization. Uh, yeah, everybody jokes about that. And there we did it. Yeah. And, uh, in the Philippines, when you're, uh, dealing with the sparrows, could you tell us the story about that time where you guys were coming out of a restaurant and like you almost got smoked? Like if you weren't paying attention to what was going on around you, you probably would have been in a pretty bad situation.

• 59:11Speaker 07

  Yeah, the, the lesson that I learned really quickly there was that awareness beats faster every single time. What happened was, um, it was six of us, two local captains, army, and I had two of my techs and my, my, uh, my office partner, my, um, Davis, very good guy, Vietnam vet. And we had been, we, we would bring the techs over to help them. They were doing a lot of signals intercept of the insurgencies and decryption and all that kind of stuff. So we were giving them that kind of gear. And of course, we were also training them on asset handling and recruiting and getting intelligence and all this kind of stuff. So we had spent a long day and we went and had dinner. We came out of this restaurant and the, we were, me and Davis were the last two guys. I was the last

• 59:55Speaker 07

  guy. Davis was second to last and walked out. And we moved to the right and as soon as I broke through the door, I looked to my left and I see three guys. Now, the MO for the sparrows is that they carry a 45 cock, no safety in their crotch.

• 1:00:11Jack Murphy?

  Round in the chamber.

• 1:00:12Speaker 07

  Like what we call, what we call appendix now, but no hold, no holster. What they do is they have their left hand in their pocket and that's what holds the gun and they push it up, bring it out, shoot you twice, reholster and walk off. And before anybody even looks, you're gone. So we walk out and I look to my left and there's these three guys and they're huddled. And as soon as we come out, they looked at us, they stopped talking and they, they got three abreast and they started walking in front of us, towards us. And, uh, I mean, we're talking yards here. We're not talking, you know, uh, a big distance. They were fairly close. And the two guys on the outside had their left hands in their pockets. So I immediately drew my weapon. And I tell you, when I took the safety off, that, that

• 1:00:56Speaker 07

  was the loudest click I ever heard in my life. And, uh, you know, unbeknownst to me, my, my, my buddy Davis was doing exactly the same thing. Uh, as, as you know, you know, when you get that bolus of, of adrenaline, the first thing that happens is you get tunnel vision. You're, you're only focused on, on just that threat. And also auto-territory exclusion. You don't know, Davis might've been saying to me, holy shit, holy shit. I couldn't hear it. All I could see was these guys. And, you know, imagine if somebody points a gun at me, I'm gonna, this, this gotta be a reaction like, whoa, whoa, hey, what's going on? Or, or, or I'm going to go for my weapon or something. Nothing. These

• 1:01:37Speaker 07

  guys, when they saw these two guns come up, they kept eye contact and they just walked right in front of us, three abreast, all the way down the street. And the guy in the middle, I could read his mind. He was saying, we'll get you next time. And I said, no, no, you're not. Um, but that, that was, uh, and what was really sad was that the only two of the six that noticed these guys was me and Davis.

• 1:02:00Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:02:02Speaker 07

  My two techs got chewed out badly. Well, we got back to, to, to, uh, to headquarters, you know, for not, you know, not paying attention because if we, if we would have tried, if I would have, if, if I would have reacted to these guys' weapons being out, I wouldn't be talking to you. And neither would Davis.

• 1:02:20Jack Murphy?

  Right. Rick, at this point, I'd like to ask you about some of the controversies that came up. Um, you were fast-tracking, I guess you could say. I mean, you, you were having a successful career in the CIA. If you Google Rick Prado today, I mean, there's some pretty wild stuff that comes up about you, about how you were a hitman down in Miami, you're doing these bombings and assassinations. Um, in your book, you, you at least allude to how some of this stuff came about. And I'd like to really give you the opportunity to kind of address some of this stuff and talk about how this came about because I, I think that you've kind of been unfairly tarnished, to tell you the truth. Um, I, I

• 1:03:01Jack Murphy?

  even, I even had a misperception about you, I think, um, until I read your book and heard your side of it. I was like, oh, okay, that's where this came from.

• 1:03:09Speaker 07

  Yeah. Well, I, I'll make no, no, uh, no excuses for my upbringing. I, I, I've hung out with the wrong crowd when I was in high school. Um, we weren't robbing banks or, or doing shoot 'em ups, but we were always fighting and getting in trouble and that kind of stuff. I had good grades and bad conduct. Um, you know, we all thought that we were tough guys. Everybody else was smoking dope, but we're lifting weights and doing martial arts and getting in fights on the weekends, kind of.

• 1:03:33Jack Murphy?

  With hippies at the flagpole.

• 1:03:35Speaker 07

  Yeah, exactly. Well, that was, that was, that was a justified one. Like I said, that's the first one that really felt good. But, uh, you know, the, the, uh, some of the guys I grew up with, uh, became cops. Some of the guys that I grew up with became robbers and, and drug dealers. And, uh, when one of them became very, very famous, I got dragged, this was in 1990, late 91, I believe it was. Uh, I was in the Philippines, uh, when I got called in because, you know, to say, you know, you were associated with this guy. And we have sources saying that, you know, that, uh, you, uh, you were, well, you know, his strong arm and all this other stuff, which is, it was all BS. Uh, I survived that. I mean, they did all kinds of background checks. Uh, they, they fingerprints, D, you

• 1:04:20Speaker 07

  know, you name it, a blood test.

• 1:04:21Jack Murphy?

  They even took pastings of your foot at one point?

• 1:04:25Speaker 07

  Yeah, they, there was, there was, um, it was actually handprints, I believe. Uh, maybe footprints also. There were, there was a crime scene where there was bloody prints. And they mentioned that to me and I said, guys, I'll give you whatever you want. Feet, hands, whatever you want. You could do all the testing you want, all the polygraphs you want. And, you know, anybody who's been in the community or even in the periphery of the community, you know two things. First of all, you know, um, the, the filtering process is very strict. The background checks are very deep, financial, psychological, neighbors are asked, school teachers are asked, um, you know, and you do go through several polygraph tests where all these questions get addressed. Their lifestyle, polygraphs.

• 1:05:10Speaker 07

  It's not just, uh, you know, have you ever stolen something? I'm talking about, you know, major stuff that, that will be addressed. So that's the first thing that is, you know, points to the fallacy. The second part is, if I indeed had been involved with any of that, that they could even justify, much less prove, there's no way I would have continued in my career and, and rise to the ranks that I did. The sad thing is, is that what you're reading, that what you got to read was much later. Uh, in 2009 is when my name was first ousted. Uh, I was working for the community. I had left, I had left, uh, CIA and I was

• 1:05:51Speaker 07

  working with Blackwater, pretty much doing the same thing, supporting the, the US Special Operations world, writ large, our community. And I was building some very good capabilities worldwide. And that was, that was my job. Well, come the political downfall of Blackwater, um, I became that, that sticky booger between Black Ops, uh, Blackwater, CIA. I recruited Cole for Black at the Blackwater, uh, who was my boss in CTC and to this day, one of my greatest friends. Um, so that's when this myth started coming out. There was a guy, and I won't even mention his name, who came out with a stupid book that sold probably

• 1:06:36Speaker 07

  20 copies and became an ebook. Um, and it was based on a narco trafficker who had been jailed. Uh, he was dying of cancer and he decided he was going to tell all, uh, tell all kind of book. And this guy put it out there. Um, it was shut down. The, uh, the, a lot of people in Miami, prominent people in Miami, not me included, because I wasn't prominent nor in Miami, um, lawyered up and, and they, they kind of shut it down. But that's the sad thing. It became popular because it was what people were looking at. It was CIA, Black Operations, Blackwater, doing stuff that they weren't really doing. I mean,

• 1:07:21Speaker 07

  they did a fantastic job with protecting our, our State Department and our agency folks. Uh, but, um, yeah, it, it was a very hard period, uh, coming home to my wife and telling her on a Thursday that, uh, tomorrow I'm front page in the, in the newspaper saying that I'm the head of CIA's, uh, you know, hit squads.

• 1:07:39Jack Murphy?

  You point out that you had a pretty airtight alibi for some of the crimes they were accusing you of because you were actually deployed with the agency overseas when they, when these crimes supposedly took place.

• 1:07:50Speaker 07

  Yeah, this was, like I said, this was all, uh, the fantasy stuff that people can spin up. Uh, but you know, we, we love conspiracy theories.

• 1:07:59Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:08:00Speaker 07

  And, uh, because most people do not know what the agency is really about. And that's the, one of the purposes of my book. The second is communism, guys. This is not a joke. It's, it's, it's our enemy long-term. So, excuse me, uh, for, for, for them, it was, you know, a way of now you had the guy who could tie in former CIA guy, operations, had this bad background when he was a kid growing up.

• 1:08:28Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:08:29Speaker 07

  And now he's doing this stuff at Blackwater and that just snowballed into, you know, these, these hit teams and all this kind of crap. So, um, yeah, uh, thank you for allowing me to, to clarify that because it was a very painful. But you know, I retired as an SIS two, which is a major general, uh, rank.

• 1:08:47Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:08:48Speaker 07

  Equivalent. And you guys know that there's no way that as a GS14, I was going to survive and, and that they were going to cover up murders and stuff like that for me. It was, it was.

• 1:09:00Jack Murphy?

  Rick Prado? Who's that? Right. Never heard of him. Right. They would've been like, yeah, never heard of the guy. Yeah. You're telling me that, Rick, that like as a, as a senior CIA guy, you were not taking off your coat and tie at the end of the day, leaving your home, your two kids in high school, the wife you've been married to for 30 years and go and do hits for the mob? That, that, that didn't happen?

• 1:09:20Speaker 07

  Uh, no. No.

• 1:09:23Jack Murphy?

  All right.

• 1:09:24Speaker 01

  I'm sure that they paid, would've paid like five grand, 10 grand to hit, you know?

• 1:09:28Speaker 07

  Like, that's chicken change.

• 1:09:30Jack Murphy?

  That's some walking around money.

• 1:09:31Speaker 07

  Right? Chrome for my heart. Right.

• 1:09:35Jack Murphy?

  So, Rick, I think the next thing the agency had you doing, going after hard targets, they sent you, I guess they're trying to make an honest man out of you after your paramilitary years, sending you after North Korea. And you could tell us a little bit about what that entailed?

• 1:09:53Speaker 07

  Yeah, there's actually two episodes. I like to address the first one, which was the Bin Laden Task Force.

• 1:09:58Jack Murphy?

  Okay.

• 1:09:59Speaker 07

  I had just left Seoul. I was the liaison guy in Seoul, dealing with our sister service there in the Eighth Army, USA Eighth Army. And I went back to CTC and I was a branch chief, Palestinian branch. And I hadn't been in the job two months when I got called up to the front office and the chief of operations, Jeff, came to me and says, your name has come up, has surfaced, to be the deputy chief of station for a station that is going to be dedicated to a single terrorist and terrorist organization. And he said, are you interested? I go, of course. I mean, deputy chief of station for a CTC station?

• 1:10:43Speaker 07

  Hell, yeah. And I said, who are we targeting? And he says Osama bin Laden. And I said, who?

• 1:10:52Speaker 07

  And he said, exactly. So I'm a plank owner of the original Task Force Station. I was the deputy chief of station and senior ops guy. The chief was an analyst by the name of Mike Shoyer, brilliant, brilliant analyst, who kind of went off the rails later on, unfortunately, but that's the very same unit that captured Bin Laden later on. You know, not captured, but allowed our SEALs to go over there and shoot them in the face, kind of stuff. So I'm very proud of that association. And that, again, that was a polishing kind of job for me, because it was definitely, you know, dealing at a pretty high level.

• 1:11:31Speaker 07

  The North Korea accounts are very dear to my heart, because again, I have fought communism in five different incarnations by now, you know? And they're, they're a pretty lethal bunch. So that's how I made senior grade. I was, I was awarded the Korea program, which was the deputy division chief opposition. And I, for two years, I had several very successful operations against the North Koreans where we took some of them down. They allowed me to talk about one of those in the book to some pretty good detail.

• 1:12:05Speaker 07

  Because the main thing was, you know, the ethos was that if you pitched a North Korean, they would spit in your face, taekwondo you to death and, and walk out. And I'd say, well, that's not going to happen to other guys. So we made sure that when we pitched, we started doing these pitches, we were already had them compromised. We had them false flagged into activities that we could then go to our liaison counterparts and show, and get them kicked out of the country. And of course, that's a huge black eye. You know, the biggest thing with North Korea that a lot of people do not understand, and I've briefed pretty high up in the military about it,

• 1:12:46Speaker 07

  is that everybody's only focused on the peninsula. Everything North Korea is in the peninsula, as far as people are concerned. And that's, that's not true. They have over 50 missions worldwide that are primarily intel collection and procurement of embargoed goods. That's what they do. And at the same time, they're also making bulk and targeting Americans, because if we ever go to war with North Korea, guess what those people are going to be doing to our missions? They're going to try to attack it.

• 1:13:18Jack Murphy?

  Right. I don't know, like, how expansive your, your general knowledge is, but given, given your like relationships in, in the agency and stuff, would you say that the North Koreans are as sophisticated or more sophisticated or less sophisticated, whatever, as like the Russians, the Chinese, the Iranians in how they conduct their operations?

• 1:13:42Speaker 07

  No, they're, they're, they're, they're a lot rougher. The Cubans are better than they are also, because the Cubans got a lot of training from the Soviets.

• 1:13:51Speaker 07

  Yeah, the, the, the North Koreans are ruthless. They control their, their country. It's the most hermetically sealed country in the world, and it has been for decades. Their operation overseas are not sophisticated, because let's face it, they only have two enemies, South Koreans and Americans. They don't have any other enemies. They're not going to attack Germans or British or anything. They don't care about them. It's Americans and the South Koreans, because that's what they want, is to take over South Korea. And so for them, their, their, their operations are mostly illegal operations to get funding

• 1:14:30Speaker 07

  in order to buy the computers and the materials or whatever it is that they cannot get because of the embargo. That's how you make it up the ranks in their intel service. So they're, they're more of a criminal organization

• 1:14:46Speaker 07

  with two enemies, you know, us and the, and the South Koreans. And they, they, they'll deal in drugs, they smuggle people into the United States. That's the one they allowed me to talk about in the book. And they're, they're really dirty players.

• 1:15:03Jack Murphy?

  The counterfeiting.

• 1:15:05Speaker 07

  Well, the supernote, yeah. That's, that's a world-class operation. And their hacking capabilities.

• 1:15:10Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:11Speaker 07

  You know, for, for, for a country as, but again, it's closed, it's controlled, and is sanctioned by the government to, to a degree that is fine. I mean, that's how they get their goods.

• 1:15:23Jack Murphy?

  How does North Korea, though? Because I would think that when these people get out to another country, to another station or location, and they see how life is outside of North Korea, like, they have to be a true blue believer. They're here in New York. They have to be a true blue believer to not go, walk straight into an agency, you know, an embassy or whatever, and go, hey, I have information on North Korea, right? Like, how do they keep them under thumb?

• 1:15:51Speaker 07

  It's actually very, very brutally. First of all, you got to understand, these people are heavily brainwashed. Okay? Yeah, but we do get defectors. I know, we, we actually got a couple of high-level defectors during, during my tenure. But those are few and far between. What they do is, they do not send anybody overseas that doesn't leave at least one of their children behind. So if you have a daughter and a son, your daughter or your son will remain in North Korea. And that is their assurance that, because if you do defect, that kid will be killed or worse.

• 1:16:32Jack Murphy?

  So in the book, it, I mean, you're saying you did get a couple of them to flip, but it sounds like a lot of them, you compromised, and they, they basically told you to fuck off and went back home. But it almost, I mean, I'm trying to read around the redactions that the agency put in here, of course, but it sounds like it was kind of like a death sentence for them, even that, even, even though they rejected you and turned you down, going back home, they were going back home compromised.

• 1:16:57Speaker 07

  Yeah, they were, they were going back home compromised and they were, you know, they had embarrassed the North Korean government. And we had helped them. That was the bottom line. Yeah. Yeah. Their, their careers were finished and their operations were shut down. Because the one that I talk about was a guy that was actually, you know, doing some pretty, pretty nasty stuff, targeting the United States. And, you know, all that, all that blew up. And that was a pretty big embarrassment for them. And in that country, they were PNGed.

• 1:17:26Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. There's another way to take them off the chessboard. How do you?

• 1:17:30Speaker 07

  That's right.

• 1:17:31Jack Murphy?

  I, I, I don't want to, like, throw salt or whatever, but like, how do you feel when you see Americans, like professional basketball players or celebrities or whomever, who think that they're, who might think that they're doing good by going over there to be an ambassador?

• 1:17:46Jack Murphy?

  But how does that make you feel?

• 1:17:50Speaker 07

  Well, it, it irks me, because you got to understand that the same thing happens to Cuba. You know, you have these movie stars primarily that go to Cuba and they, you know, they worship the revolution and they come back with Che Guevara t-shirts without ever really knowing what Che Guevara really did.

• 1:18:07Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:18:08Speaker 07

  He was, he was an assassin. He killed people tied to telephone poles, kind of stuff, for interrogation. So we, there's this, you know, we have politicians that go to Cuba. We have, you know, movie stars that go to Cuba, go to North Korea. And what they don't understand is this is, you know, Hanoi Jane kind of stuff. You're undermining your country and legitimizing a ruthless regime. I mean, Castro has been in power, well, the Castro regime has been in power for over 60 years.

• 1:18:44Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:18:44Speaker 07

  And so has North Korea.

• 1:18:45Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:18:46Speaker 07

  And those people have been, you know, annihilated, the opposition killed, people enslaved, you know? And how do you forgive that? And when, when I see people being that naive, and what scares me even more, guys, is this socialist utopia idea that is circulating in our youth, where, you know, hey, everything is free and everybody's equal and let's go far left.

• 1:19:13Speaker 07

  You know, people got to understand that socialism is just a mask that communism wears.

• 1:19:19Jack Murphy?

  Well, and you know what they say about that, that Marxism just hasn't been done right? That they have the answer, right? That these other countries-

• 1:19:26Speaker 07

  Of course, but that's, that's the joke for, for, for the, for this since 1917. Because name me one single country that has been under communist rule that has prospered.

• 1:19:37Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:19:37Speaker 07

  Poland, Czechoslovakia, Cuba, Venezuela. Come on, I mean Nicaragua. All those countries become worse, no matter what their problems are, once communism takes over.

• 1:19:52Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:52Speaker 07

  And it's long-term.

• 1:19:55Jack Murphy?

  Well, as you said, when, when the mask drops, you often end up with Bolshevik- And Gaddafi's and Castro's and it's not a pretty situation.

• 1:20:03Speaker 07

  Absolutely. And guys, I mean, you know, one of the things that was amazing to me is that we were surprised that Putin did what he did with the Ukraine.

• 1:20:13Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:20:14Speaker 07

  If you look at the history of the Soviet Union, from Stalin to Khrushchev to Putin, that kind of individual is the rule, not the exception. Second, he even said it when he took over power was the first thing he said, I will reconstitute the Soviet Union to its old glory. That's a clue.

• 1:20:34Jack Murphy?

  Right, right, right, right. So, so, you know, because we have heard like modern politicians praise the Cuban literacy program.

• 1:20:46Speaker 07

  Yeah. Oh, and their medical program, you know, it's amazing, you know, the Cuba, there is free education and everybody does get to learn to read and write. Just like in a lot of the other countries of the world now. And that was the literacy campaigns and, you know, and they, they taught the fact that they have more doctors than anybody else and they do have a lot of doctors, but you know what? Most of those doctors do not work in the island. They literally prostitute those to Venezuela and other countries to be doctors and they charge that country a fee and the doctors get crapola. So, and in Cuba medicines? If you go to a pharmacy in Cuba, you're lucky if there's four bottles on the shelf.

• 1:21:31Speaker 07

  A lot of the families from Miami have to send stuff to, you know, to their family for antibiotics and God forbid that you have major, major illnesses. So they have a lot of doctors, very bad medical capability. They have a lot of literate people, but they have no work. You could graduate from college and you're still on the streets hustling because there's very little business, although that's changed a little bit. There's a few little cracks on the, on the boss there that we're hoping to lead to bigger things, but it is, it is very, very, very disturbing for me because I know people that have died in every single one of those different, you know, incarnations, fighting communism and

• 1:22:15Speaker 07

  it's, it's just naive, so naive.

• 1:22:17Jack Murphy?

  Americans often have a very naive view of Cuba. I, I agree. You know, very, oh, they drive these old cars and it's very quaint for them and it's like, that's because they live in poverty, man. Like it's not, it's not cool, you know, it's, it's actually sad.

• 1:22:33Speaker 07

  And the big, the biggest problem that we have here, guys, is that as Americans, we have it so good, we don't know how good we have it. We have nothing, the average Americans has nothing to compare their lifestyle.

• 1:22:45Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:22:46Speaker 07

  You know, go, go to a third world country for 30 days.

• 1:22:49Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:22:49Speaker 07

  And no iPad, no iPhone, get Montezuma's revenge as you try to teach kids how to read and write or purify water and then you come back and say, oh gee, this place is so bad after all.

• 1:22:59Jack Murphy?

  Speaking of which, Rick, can you tell us about Shangri-La where you're in a East African country, I believe, although it's not named in here. And you kind of got sent in to stand up a burgeoning intelligence capability. It was felt that our intelligence gathering capability was inadequate in this country. And they sent you in to stand up like a news station, I suppose?

• 1:23:22Speaker 07

  Yeah, we were, we were there as a team. All my guys were, you know, former this or former that. They were all case officers, but they were also had strong paramilitary skills. And we were sent there because the, the place had been dormant. We had not been doing much there. And this place was at the time, and for the, for the longest time, it was a radical Muslim country in Africa. Was a hotel for terrorists. Terrorists of all ilk could go there and if they paid a fee, they, they had protection. So we were there in the country trying to recruit sources that would tell us what was going on. We were also there trying to, with the information that was provided from headquarters from other human sources

• 1:24:07Speaker 07

  or signals, intelligence sources or satellite, trying to geolocate possible safe houses and stuff that the bad guys were operating out of. So in case we did have to go in there, at least we would know, okay, so and so lives in that house and drives that red car. So the biggest challenge for us though is this is an African country. 99% of the people are black. So most of our snooping and pooping was done with, in disguise, literally wearing masks that resembled black Africans.

• 1:24:43Speaker 07

  That, you know, if, if somebody saw you in the car, would never have a second thought that you were not anything but a, but a, a person from that country.

• 1:24:52Speaker 07

  A lot of fun.

• 1:24:53Jack Murphy?

  It sounds like it was, it was pretty austere out there too. Yeah.

• 1:24:57Speaker 07

  Yeah, it was, uh, we were top of the food chain. I mean, we, we were loaded up. We were always gunned up. We, we were body armor and, and going to places even at night in, in soft skin vehicles because, you know, we couldn't, you know, couldn't have diplomatic, diplomatic vehicles going on these operations. So we use local vehicles, thin skin and, and body armor and guns and I mean, packs of cigarettes in case we came to a

• 1:25:24Jack Murphy?

  A checkpoint.

• 1:25:25Speaker 07

  Guard post or something checkpoint that you could give them a box of, they would just let you go.

• 1:25:29Jack Murphy?

  Even with that though, like they're, you know, they're even like with body armor and loaded for bear, like there's still got to be that adrenaline spike because against a couple of technicals, like what's your thin skin vehicle?

• 1:25:45Speaker 07

  Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, and you just touched on something that is very, very important. You may have guns on you or not have guns on you, but in our, like I said earlier in our business, you're, you're trying to fly under the radar.

• 1:25:58Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:25:59Speaker 07

  You're not reacting to, you know, you, you're not, you know, you're not targeting somebody for, you know, you're not taking down a house in Afghanistan, you know, in a team outside.

• 1:26:09Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:26:09Speaker 07

  Squeeze, squeeze, flashbang, go in kind of stuff. You are doing tradecraft based stuff. So when anything that is an anomaly, whether you're carrying a pistol or an M4 and whether you have body armor or not, you're reacting to a threat. And, and it's like in the Philippine situation, the adrenaline jolt is substantial. So when you're, when you're doing these things at night, you're doing it cool, calm and collected, but you have to be ready for, for, for a reaction. And we had a couple of episodes, I think they're, one of them at least is shown, you know, that demonstrated in the book where, you know, they were, they were following us and we made sure that they understood that that wasn't gonna lead to anything good for them.

• 1:26:51Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:52Speaker 07

  So, yeah.

• 1:26:53Jack Murphy?

  Wow. So as time goes on, Rick, we're leading up to 2001. I was wondering, you were in CTC. I was wondering if you could tell us about that morning of nine 11 and what it was like in CTC that morning? When the attacks happened.

• 1:27:10Speaker 07

  We, we all know where we were that day and we all have the scars from it.

• 1:27:16Speaker 07

  I took over as chief of ops at the counter terrorist center in May of 2001. I had, that's when I came out of that Muslim radical country and I replaced by friend Hank Crumpton. And come nine 11, you know, we were getting an incredible amount of chatter about something going on with Al Qaeda. We knew that they were planning something major. Because of the, the, the, the words that they were using, the, the level of, of transmissions that were going on, the activities of people that we had under surveillance worldwide. And then the opposite beginning to where all of a sudden the people we were following disappear.

• 1:28:00Speaker 07

  And that's, that's, that's another clue, you know, that, that they're planning something. But we did not know what it was. So, um, yeah, I was standing outside Kofor's office when that first airplane hit, hit the building and I saw it on the TV and

• 1:28:17Speaker 07

  shortly thereafter, we, we, you know, CTC was very eclectic in the sense that we had representation from every federal agency there. We've always had Secret Service, DS, you know, military guys, DEA guys. And we had an FAA guy that came to me after the first plane crash and he says, sir, we have a problem. And I said, what's up? He goes, we have four car, four aircraft that have activated their, you know, emergency signal and they're not responding. And right about that time, we see the second, because at first we thought it was a Cessna that had hit a building in New York, you know? That second was, was a lot clearer and that it was a very big aircraft and now we knew this was not a coincidence that this was an attack.

• 1:29:00Speaker 07

  And, you know, obviously, um, we, we rose to the, to the occasion as an agency, you know, the, the rumors and the thought was that some, one of those planes was destined for the agency. One hit the Pentagon, one hit the, the Twin Towers. And, and that one of them was going to be used against the agency. Because, you know, what a, what a great place to take down if, you know, if, if you're, you're going to be fighting a long-term war. And the, the CIA and most federal buildings were evacuated. And the building was evacuated except for the, a great amount of people from CTC stayed. Kofor made it clear, hey, if you've got family issues, you gotta go get your kid out of school. Go, if you want to come back, come back.

• 1:29:45Speaker 07

  But it was an inordinate amount of men and women that stayed behind. And, and people that were not even in the center would come from other divisions and say, we want to help. And they would stay. So

• 1:29:58Speaker 07

  it, it was a very painful moment because we knew that, that, that, that something was about to happen. Nothing of this magnitude or of this impact.

• 1:30:09Speaker 07

  But it, it activated us. And we started, we started working on finding out who it was and what we were going to do about it.

• 1:30:17Jack Murphy?

  The, the way you write it in the book is like people were tacking up maps of Afghanistan up on the wall like within an hour.

• 1:30:24Speaker 07

  Yep. Yeah. Yeah. The, the, the, the, the energy level went through the roof. I, I reached out to Hank Crumpton, who had just gone down to Canberra to be the chief. Real cushy job, especially for a great outdoor guys like him. He's a big hunter. And I called him up and I say, hey, man, you know, um, we, we're talking, we need, we need, we need a guy like you here to, to, to lead, you know, from headquarters, put together the, the, the stuff against Afghanistan. And God bless him. I mean, you know, his household goods were still unpacked and he came back. He came back to, to, to do that. So a lot of people stood up. We had two or three guys. The guy that became Hank Crumpton's deputy in special operations

• 1:31:10Speaker 07

  literally walked into my office, I, two days after nine 11 or a day after nine 11 with his orders said, I have my retirement orders in my hand. If you give me any job, including bringing you coffee.

• 1:31:24Speaker 07

  I will tear these papers up. I said, I like this guy. Well, I G two'd him and the guy was a stud, you know, former this, former that. And so I called Hank and I said, hey, I think I got your deputy. And to this day, we're great friends and he's a gay patriot, but we also had two other paramilitary guys who had actually left the agency and were working for Coca-Cola in executive level of jobs. And they came back, they same thing. They gave everything up to come back and not miss this fight. So that's very rewarding and it's very telling of the quality of people that really, that are really drawn to the, to the agency, not the Jason Bourne's or the American made crap that's out there.

• 1:32:04Jack Murphy?

  Could, could you tell us about rolling up quote unquote Mustafa that month?

• 1:32:11Jack Murphy?

  In your, in your

• 1:32:12Speaker 07

  Be fresh.

• 1:32:12Jack Murphy?

  He was on in, in air quotes, Mustafa, he was on an airliner. He was a terrorist.

• 1:32:18Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's the name that we use for him because we were not allowed to say the real name. This guy was a terrorist and he was, he was, he was captured after, after an op that went bad for him and hijacking. And he had killed some Americans. So this, this analyst from, from our, the center came over and said, tells me about this guy that is getting out of jail in this third world country and that, and I said, so this is right after nine 11. And I said, so he says, well, we got paper on him. He killed Americans. So long winded story is that we actually approached

• 1:32:58Speaker 07

  the right people in that country and made sure that when he got put on a plane, he would go the route that we wanted him to go through. And he got on this airplane. He'd been in the jail in one of these third world countries for 14 years. And he gets on the plane, he had seat, window seat 17A. B was bought, but nobody showed up. C was a, a Japanese guy with Playboy and Hustler magazines, who was actually a case officer. So, and behind him was one of my Navy SEAL buddies in case he

• 1:33:38Speaker 07

  got any ideas of doing anything awkward. And so the, the idea of the Japanese guy was no threat because he's an Asian.

• 1:33:46Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:33:47Speaker 07

  Playboy magazine and Hustler magazines. This guy hasn't seen a woman in 14 years. And the Japanese guy says, yeah, look at him, you know, they're used to look. So that distracted him for part of the flight because the, the, the rules were when we got to a, that, that stop point in another country, a very, very good ally, we had to get him before he set foot on the ground. We had to get him off the ladder. Because then, you know, if he said, I want asylum, you're done.

• 1:34:20Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:34:20Speaker 07

  And things compromised. So this guy was well behaved all through when we landed. Is this one of these aircraft that you either go forward, half the plane goes to the front and the half the plane goes to the back and they have these long ladders? He was supposed to go out the back. And when he got up, there was a, there was a lady that was part of our surveillance there, and I think she was FBI. And she made like a nanosecond eye contact with this guy. That's all it took. He freaked out and started going to the front of the airplane. Well, the van with the, with the two FBI guys and our SAD guys were in the back. The FBI guys were going to put the cuffs and read them those rights, but we, we, you know, my guy, our guys were the ones who were going to

• 1:35:04Speaker 07

  duct tape them and grab them. So he starts, instead of going out the back, he starts going out the front. We're trying to get comms to the van that it needs to go to the front. And my SEAL Team buddy starts following the guy out to, to the front of the airplane. And the guy starts running, he doesn't even notice that this guy's behind him. He starts going down the stairs when the van pulls up. And he immediately looks at it, turns around, starts running back up. And my, my buddy grabbed him by the neck and said, welcome to America, mother. And threw him in the van. So it's

• 1:35:40Jack Murphy?

  He ran right, like ran right into the SEAL, right?

• 1:35:43Speaker 07

  Yep. Yeah. He was right there and they bumped into him. He grabbed him by the throat and told him, welcome, welcome to America.

• 1:35:50Jack Murphy?

  That, you must have to have a lot of coordination, not only with you guys in the FBI, but you have to know if there's an air marshal on board, because if they see something funny, they might respond in the wrong way.

• 1:36:01Speaker 07

  Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, this was a foreign, this was foreign aircraft.

• 1:36:04Jack Murphy?

  Right. Okay.

• 1:36:05Speaker 07

  It wasn't an American aircraft and everything else. But no, that, that is a reality for us. They could be a regular, you know, a security guy from that country.

• 1:36:12Jack Murphy?

  Right, right.

• 1:36:13Speaker 07

  It's on that aircraft. But nothing was going to be done in the, in the aircraft. It was done at the bar, you know, where they were deplaning.

• 1:36:21Jack Murphy?

  Right. So Rick, a kind of common theme in your career is that people come to you and ask you to stand up some new capability or some new intelligence station. Can you put together a team, find a guy to run it? And you keep putting your own name in it because you can't, you can't step away from it. You can't let it go. You love to be, be there on the ground. That's like a theme through your whole book, that you love to be that guy that's there. In 2002, they ask, they want to stand up a new capability at CIA. Could you tell us about the team you put together, the training you started to do, what you were trying to accomplish there?

• 1:37:01Speaker 07

  Well, actually, it was, it was, I was chief of ops at the center. And you got to understand for a guy like me, chief of ops of CTC, doesn't get any sexier than that.

• 1:37:10Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:37:10Speaker 07

  It's, it's, it's a very cool moniker and a great job and working with some incredible people.

• 1:37:17Speaker 07

  But I told Kofa, I said, you know, we're, we're running short here on, we're doing great in Afghanistan. We're, we're really kicking the bejesus out of them. But these guys are in, in all over the world with impunity. And, you know, we need to be able to target these individuals and have the capability to neutralize their activity, disrupt their activity. You know, if, if, if we see that there is intelligence indicated that whether it's Hezbollah or Hamas or Al Qaeda, or whoever ISIS didn't exist at the time. So Kofa looked at me, it was a Friday, he says, well, you're the chief of ops, fix it. So I spent the weekend writing up my op order and Monday I briefed

• 1:38:01Speaker 07

  him. And I said, this is what I want to do. And I told him, I said, look, we're not going to be targeting heads of organizations. We already got the bin Laden task force for that. Plus, they're hard, hard to get. They're not that as easy. We're not after the shooters. This is not a punitive capability. This is a preventive and disruptive capability that I'm proposing. And the, the idea, the concept was target the soft underbelly of any criminal or organization and terrorists or criminal, just like everybody else. And that's the support mechanisms because the support mechanism has to have a, a public persona. You cannot be a support element if you

• 1:38:44Speaker 07

  cannot go to the lawyer or to the bank or to the safe house or get the doctor.

• 1:38:49Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:38:49Speaker 07

  You know, those are the individuals that really move organizations and when you eviscerate them there, that, that's, that, that's major damage. So in a nutshell, the concept was give me, say 30 guys that we start making book on in different parts of the world. They're all terrorists or narco traffickers of that we know who they are, we know they're bad, but we know that they're crucial elements of their support mechanisms. And we know that we have the intelligence to support that. So the idea was we, our, my team would go out and make book on these guys, establish patterns of life, and then come up with, you know, okay, so what car is he driving? Where does he

• 1:39:31Speaker 07

  live? What boyfriend he has or girlfriend he has? You know, what mosque he goes or what bar he goes to, whatever it was, we knew what that individual was doing. And then we would come up with three operational scenarios where we could disrupt members of that organization when we had intelligence like we had in nine 11, prior to nine 11, that indicated that something was happening.

• 1:39:55Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:39:55Speaker 07

  And my argument to Kofa was, and to the DCI, I said, sir, if we would have had this capability before nine 11, and we would have been able to grab three different Al Qaeda support guys in three different parts of the world, what do you think they would have done? Slam the brakes.

• 1:40:14Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:40:14Speaker 07

  We're penetrated. How did they know? They neutralized three of our major guys. And I'm not talking about just killing them. I mean, I'm not talking, you could duct tape them, rendition, you could, you know, you could put drugs in their car or fake explosives in their car and compromise them to the locals, whatever. Everything was on the table. But he was being able to have that capability on the books. And then Kofa says, I love it. I like it. Get ready to brief the, the DCI and find me somebody who can lead this team. I said, I already got them. He goes, who? I go, me. He kicked me out of his office. He says, you're my chief of ops. You're, you're not going back on the street. Well, I circle back in the afternoon with his deputy Ben Bock, who was a very

• 1:40:56Speaker 07

  dear friend of mine. And I, we talked to him and said, Bullock boss, you know that me giving up the, the chief ops job is hard. But I know that this is, this is in my wheelhouse. And it's my concept. I believe in it and I can make it work. So he gave in and he allowed me to, to run the, that, that, that program. Unfortunately, by this time, we're, we're already talking late 2002, by the time we got the group together and started doing our snooping. And, you know, the, the calcium from the spine and the testosterone started dropping with time. And politics kicked in. And,

• 1:41:37Speaker 07

  you know, you can't run special operations through the optic of with politics as an optic.

• 1:41:43Jack Murphy?

  But you, you did get the chance to brief Dick Cheney and Condoleezza Rice on the capability.

• 1:41:49Speaker 07

  Yeah. And I was very, very, very pleasantly surprised that they allowed me to, to talk about that, that part of it. They allowed me to talk about the concept and the briefing. They did not allow me to talk about the cool stuff that we did. And we did cool stuff, but I can't talk about that.

• 1:42:05Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:06Speaker 07

  But I did brief Dick Cheney and Condoleezza Rice on a particular, one of these operations and the overall concept.

• 1:42:13Jack Murphy?

  Well, so it did go operational. There were some things that got greenlit?

• 1:42:18Speaker 07

  No, that, that was, that was the problem. The Cheney and Condoleezza said, we love this. Keep developing it. When you are ready to pull one of these, come back and brief us and we'll brief the right people in Congress and we will get this done. This is the kind of stuff we, we're, we're supposed to be doing. And you're right, Rick. We wish that we would have had this capability before nine 11. But

• 1:42:46Speaker 07

  Nothing was ever, um, we were not allowed to do what we were supposed to be doing.

• 1:42:51Jack Murphy?

  And not from that level, but from levels above you inside.

• 1:42:55Speaker 07

  It was a turtle. It was more in the agency.

• 1:42:57Jack Murphy?

  What was that like for you from having gone, having gone from a PJ to like a paramilitary guy on the ground, you know, in, in the whole Contra San. It was several years of work into this than then be to be told, basically, we don't need you. And then as you get up into the more SIS, which for people who don't know in the government is like an executive position and we run into these internal blockades, even when, even when the higher ups in the government are saying, yes, we want this, but people above you in the agency or, you know, whatever organization is saying, it's a political risk for us.

• 1:43:36Speaker 07

  Yeah, without a doubt. I mean, it was, uh, it was a sobering moment because there was a tipping point and, and to clarify, they, they would have loved to kept the team on paper training.

• 1:43:48Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:43:48Speaker 07

  Because it briefs really well.

• 1:43:50Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:43:50Speaker 07

  You know, you've already told the, the vice president of the United States, you could do this. Um, so their goal was, and my deputy, who was always smarter than I ever was, he told me one day, he says, boss, the problem is they didn't expect us to succeed to the level that we have this quickly.

• 1:44:04Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:44:05Speaker 07

  Being able to stand up the team. Uh, so we had one particular target, uh, that, that was being sponsored by a very senior division chief, who to this day is a very dear friend of mine. And, um, we went and we were, we, we had done incredible sleuth on work on this guy. We had him coming and going. We had, you know, literally, we knew what he had for lunch and, um, we went to present it to the DDO and our DCI, the director of operations, the director of the agency. And I'm, I'm sitting there briefing from notes, no, nothing electronic. All my, all my programs were standalone stuff and I'm briefing and briefing and they're asking questions.

• 1:44:46Speaker 07

  And we already had gone through a, uh, through a screening process by other senior guys about our tradecraft and CI and all that, passed with flying colors. And when I finished, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the DDO said to the director, he said, well, Mr. Director, um, I'll never forget the words. He said, there's no doubt in our minds that Prado and his team can not only do this, but get away with it. And I went, oh yes. And then he said, however, comma, we have to look at the political implications of making this happen.

• 1:45:26Speaker 07

  The division chief that was on the table, closed his book. He was a very dapper guy, straightened out his jacket, his suit and walked out. I went downstairs, Jose Rodriguez had taken over for, uh, Kofa Black. Uh, and so now he was the director, he was my boss in, in CTC. Jose and I've been, been, been great friends since 1990s, early 1990s. And, um, I went to him and said, hey, Pefe, you know, um, this just happened and I can't keep this team. I had, I had pick of the litter. Imagine you mentioned SIS, you know, SIS for us is flag rank in the military, it's executive in high order. Three of my guys that were in

• 1:46:08Speaker 07

  the team with me, three, when they retired, one was an S, two were SIS fours, one was an SIS five. So I had pick of the litter. I had the guys with a, with a PM intel background that were meat eaters and intellectual and could run things. It could be at the NSC and all this happy horseshit. And I couldn't keep these guys repelling upside downs, popping grenades, uh, flashbangs. You know, they had a career that they deserved. Uh, so that's, that's what I, you know, I told Jose, I said, we need to put this on the shelf. If they ever get serious about it, uh, then we can try to resuscitate it, but we got to get these guys back at the mainstream careers because if not, we're doing them harm.

• 1:46:50Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:46:51Speaker 07

  And then shortly thereafter, I decided to pull the plug. I, you know, I had had such a great ride, you know, up to then, uh, including what we were able to do then, just because the fact that I was able to put that together was a huge feeling of, you know, here I am, a senior officer and I'm, you know, I went from leading and managing, uh, you know, three, four, 500 people, uh, three before and 500 after nine 11 to a team of 12, including two analysts. So, um, it was a demotion for lack of it, but I, those were some of the best years of my life on the street. And, um, I didn't want to end up, uh, in another bureaucratic position, pushing paper as a this, that, or division chief or deputy division chief.

• 1:47:34Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:47:34Speaker 07

  Um, and, and I decided to pull the plug.

• 1:47:37Jack Murphy?

  Rick, uh, I mean, you, you talk about applying to other jobs in the agency and it became clear to you that, I, I mean sadly, uh, you know, not a, not, not the ending of your career that you really wanted, but it became clear that they, they didn't really want you anymore. And so you, you kind of left the agency in a way that I, I think it would be natural to be very bitter about. And I think you were, you, you, you had some consternation about that, but I really respected what you wrote in your book, that you kind of did some self-reflection and thinking about that. And you realized that there are guys like, like us, all of us who come away with some bad experiences. Um, but if you let that

• 1:48:19Jack Murphy?

  make you bitter, it, it really comes to define who you are as a man, uh, who you are as a person and the entire rest of your life. And that if, if you become that person, it's like you're flushing everything you worked for and everything you fought for through your whole life down the toilet, your entire career, 20 some odd years in your case. Um, and you made a conscious decision not to be that person. And I was wondering if you could talk to us a little bit about that. I thought that was like, that was really the message that really resonated with me reading this.

• 1:48:49Speaker 07

  Well, it was, it was crucial for me. I, I had a couple of friends that had been ousted themselves. Um, you know, and, and I, they, they, you know, they, they didn't get that one promotion that they, they knew that they deserved because it was politically given to somebody else. And, and this is the dangers of having agencies that are not run by operators, you know? Um, you know, operations needs to be run at the leadership level and on the street by people that know what the hell they're talking about. But, um, so I, I, you know, I was disappointed. I put in for three jobs. Uh, they all said I was very qualified, but there was always, oh no, we, they gave it to so and so because he just came back

• 1:49:29Speaker 07

  from Bujimura, whatever the hell it was. And, and after the third one, um, they, I, one of my friends did come up with a job, which was, uh, to take over his, he was in charge of military affairs. And, uh, Dick was a very dear friend of mine from, from the Contra days. And he said, Rick, I'm retired in six months. Come be my deputy for six months and then you could take this as your SIS three automatic. And, um, and I was going to take it, but then I said to myself, you know, I have spent the last two years on the ground, a year before that in, in Shangri-La, before that bin Laden station, before that, you know, after that Korea and so on, so on, so on. Why do I want to end up my job

• 1:50:14Speaker 07

  holding hands of generals that are coming to my building to get briefed on things, you know? And that's, you know, basically the way I looked at it. I said, this, I, I want to go on my high. And, um, so I, I put in my papers to retire. And, you know, I, again, you, you heard about my upbringing. I, I learned very early on from my father and my grandfather, who's highlighted a lot in the book because he was again, one of my first heroes. Um, that a man has to have a certain calmness when things are bad. Um, and I didn't, you know, I didn't blow a fuse. I didn't start throwing things. I, I was feeling it. And I remember when I turned my badge in and I got in that car, I had to lower the

• 1:50:58Speaker 07

  window because I, you know, I was choked up. I mean, this was, this was, uh, it was a very hard decision. I got home, uh, we had a little gazebo that we had just built in back of our house in, in Fairfax. And my wife, you know, we'll, we'll be married 40 years this year, so she knows me fairly well. And, uh, she saw me and she just turned around and started going the other direction. So I grabbed a, a very nice cigar and Arturo Fuentes, Maduro and a bottle of Barlow, uh, I'm sorry, Barolo Italian wine. And I sat in that gazebo and I started going through my career. And, you know, I believe in divine intervention. I believe that God does put us in our path. And I also believe that God

• 1:51:43Speaker 07

  puts things in our, in our hearts and in our minds and it's, we got to listen. And all of a sudden it came to me and I started from the very first day of the agency, going through the people and what I did. And every time that it was a good person or a good op, I, I imagine taking a crystal marble and put it in, in a vase. And every time that it was some alpha hotel that had really no business being my boss or, or, or, or political things, I would put that in a, a black marble and throw it in the trash can. And I went through the bottle of, of Barolo and the cigar through this whole process. And at

• 1:52:23Speaker 07

  the end, I was cleansed because I, I realized, I said, you have had such an incredibly charmed life, much less career. I mean, being a PJ was the highlight of my life at that time. Um, and then, you know, getting into the agency. So how are you going to, like you said very eloquently, how am I going to flush that down the toilet? Um, along with all this good stuff. And to this day, and I'm looking at it right now, it's across from, from where I'm sitting. I have a, I, I bought a vase that has a dragon on it because that's my, uh, that's my, that was my callsign. And it's full of crystal marbles and it's got a knife stuck through it. And every time I get frustrated with things, I just look

• 1:53:08Speaker 07

  over there and, and reminds me to focus on the positive things that we can do and quit bitching like, uh, like, you know.

• 1:53:16Jack Murphy?

  Can you show us, Rick? Can you show it to us?

• 1:53:20Speaker 07

  Uh, yeah, I, uh, I.

• 1:53:22Jack Murphy?

  I'd love to see it.

• 1:53:23Speaker 07

  Let me see if I can, uh, turn this thing around. You have to guide me here a little bit. Uh, are you seeing that wall?

• 1:53:31Jack Murphy?

  We see the wall. The back wall. Yep. Uh, we see your monitor right now.

• 1:53:35Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 1:53:37Jack Murphy?

  And the.

• 1:53:37Speaker 07

  I'm trying to, okay. So you see that there's a photo of me in two cars?

• 1:53:43Jack Murphy?

  Okay. Uh, tilt your laptop screen up for us, please.

• 1:53:46Speaker 07

  Up?

• 1:53:47Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:48Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 1:53:49Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. We see the plaque.

• 1:53:51Speaker 07

  Okay. And then there's.

• 1:53:52Jack Murphy?

  Oh, yes, I did see it. Yes.

• 1:53:54Speaker 07

  Yep. There's a vase there with the marbles and the knife through it.

• 1:53:57Jack Murphy?

  Ah, that's what, okay.

• 1:54:01Jack Murphy?

  That's a you've got you've got, I mean, honestly, for most people, just the the the hero wall that you have behind you, like, is a is massive. And then for you to turn your laptop around, and it's an entire room of that is just, I mean, it's just a testament to your incredible career. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:54:23Speaker 07

  Well, you know, thank you, guys. But you know, at the same time, it's a testament to the quality of people that we have in my agency.

• 1:54:29Jack Murphy?

  And I think that was really nice part of your book, too, is that you spent some time talking about like, people who looked after you, mentored you, taught you, people who kind of like, looked after you, even when they didn't even know you, they didn't really owe you anything. But they're like, yeah, this guy's doing the right thing. We want to, we want to keep him on track. And I thought that was a really nice part of your book.

• 1:54:53Speaker 07

  Yeah, I mean, there's, there's no successful operations officer in the agency that doesn't have memories that they can, once they retire, they could put up on the wall. Of course, I have my pararescue stuff. I always harp about that. I would have never gotten into the agency if I had not been a PJ. That was my path. So I have my pararescue stuff. I have my family stuff. And then I have, you know, it's my I love me wall. These are the things, you know, training with the DEA guys, Secret Service firearms instructor course, you know, jumping in middle in the Middle Eastern country and getting my jump wings and all that kind of stuff is on the wall. And this is where I work. And that's kind of kind of motivates me.

• 1:55:34Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, that's amazing. Post, post career, Rick, not, not a whole lot in your book about it, but you went Dewey Claridge asked you to come and meet with him. I mean, a spy master, if ever there was one, a guy who knew how to run human networks like nobody else, asked you to come and see him out on, out on the West Coast. There's a little chapter here in your book about that. Can you tell us about that meeting and how that happened?

• 1:56:06Speaker 07

  Yeah, well, Dewey Claridge was the quintessential CIA James Bond guy. He was the dapper dresser. He always had Brioni suits on. I mean, he was always, and he became a mentor of mine because he was Casey's pit bull in the contra program. And he knew that for the, you know, the first year plus of that, that I was the only guy in the camp. So here I am, you know, GS 10, GS 11. And he knows who Rick Prado is, Alex. So he was my mentor in many occasions, including getting me, you know, the education, and he was instrumental in me getting into ground branch. So when he retired, obviously, you know, I was there for him, and we stayed

• 1:56:50Speaker 07

  in touch. And he was running some really incredible things. I mean, remember, he's the guy that created the counter terrorist. That was his idea in his, he's the one that the first chief of that was Dewey Claridge. So he calls me and what would happen, I was running some other things that I would go to California, out of San Diego, a couple of SEAL Team buddies of mine there. And he that's he lived just outside San Diego. So I would always call him, hey, you're free for lunch, this and the other. And one of the times he called me at the house, he goes, hey, next time you come across, I need you to come over. I want to, I want to run some things by you. I said, sure thing, boss, no problem. So I go over there with my my SEAL buddy, Steve, and we we sat down and

• 1:57:34Speaker 07

  he says, look, and you talk about I love me wall, he had an I love me living room. He had a 30 cal water cool machine gun at the end of the hall. I mean, he had the coolest stuff I've ever seen. And he says, you know, Rick, I'm getting old. There's going to come a time when I'm going to have to back off the stuff. There's some programs that I want you to take over. And, you know, I'm sitting here, I'm slack-jawed. He started to talk to me about these programs. And he says, you know, these are leads that I know that you could make. And I did. I cannot talk about any of that. That's why it's not in the book. It's never been compromised. It's never made the news. So it's, it's a very

• 1:58:18Speaker 07

  good period in my life. The things that I was able to do post retirement for for God and country again. You know, guys, since I wanted to pararescue, I never worked in anything that wasn't trying to contribute back and pay my debt of honor to the United States. I'm very proud of that.

• 1:58:36Jack Murphy?

  It's, it's amazing. And, you know, it's funny, because we've had other Cuban Americans on, and this, this is a very strong theme amongst Cuban Americans who have found their way into the military and whatnot, that, you know, that sense of getting out of Cuba, and knowing what those forces that are arrayed, you know, against freedom look like, up close and personal. And then the debt that they feel to the United States, or, you know, to liberty, that many of us, we might be patriotic or whatever, but but we've never

• 1:59:17Jack Murphy?

  had to deal with that firsthand, you know, and how strongly that that flame burns is, it's just incredible.

• 1:59:26Speaker 07

  Well, I think it goes back to the comment that I made earlier, Dave, that, you know, we don't know how good we have it in this country. And guys like myself, and, you know, our Vietnamese folks that came over, the Venezuelans that have come over, fleeing terrorism, fleeing communism, those individuals have something to compare it to. Yeah, I mean, if you look, if you look at our special operations, I taught at Fort Bragg for seven years at the ASOP course. And I was always in awe of how many Asians and Hispanics were in the soft course. You know, it was, it was really refreshing for me to saying, hey, these are

• 2:00:08Speaker 07

  all guys that, that we don't, you know, I don't, I don't call myself, nobody in my family calls themselves Cuban Americans. We're Americans that happened to have been, you know, born in Cuba. And by the way, I got two boys that have been in service. And one of them has combat creds. I won't go any further because that's, you know, that's his life. And, you know,

• 2:00:29Jack Murphy?

  We'll have him on down the line.

• 2:00:30Speaker 07

  There you go. I'll hook you guys up in about 10 years. He's just a major right now.

• 2:00:38Speaker 07

  Two combat tours and a whole bunch of stuff. And the other ones, the other one also did six years in the military, and it's going back now as an officer when he finishes his schooling. So anyway, the for, for, for us, who have come from a different place, we worship the United States because we see that it is far from perfect. It's made from humans, let's face it. But it is the best thing that we have out there. And I don't care if, you know, if you're in Italy, or if you're in Germany, I wouldn't trade, and I've been to all of them, I wouldn't trade any other country for for what we have here in the United States. And I try to make that part of my book also. That's, that's that

• 2:01:18Speaker 07

  debt of honor that we should all have. And I'm very proud to say that all three of my kids are serving in one way or another.

• 2:01:28Jack Murphy?

  Well, I'll say that, I mean, we and the United States, like, we are very fortunate to have them in life. Yeah, we, we obviously benefited from having so many Cuban Americans come here. We've interviewed Ruben Garcia, Eric Miaris. I mean, we've really had some incredible folks on here with incredible stories. And, you know, and, you know, even though, you know, and it feels like our government gets like, this has got like this after Vietnam, you know, it goes through these phases where ramps up these programs. And then the guys who can do those things when the government is like, done, like, oh, like, that's all a little like, much for us, or politically

• 2:02:09Jack Murphy?

  intense for us. Like, let's, you know, let's bring in the guys who, who haven't, you know, accomplished these missions for United, you know, for America to represent us now, or to write these policies now, where I feel as though like, our government has a tendency to use people, like, you not use you because you're there for the purpose, but to, to use your abilities.

• 2:02:39Speaker 07

  That they're not using. I think the correct terminology would be that they don't use you, the way that you're capable of being.

• 2:02:46Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 2:02:47Speaker 07

  I think that that is, that is

• 2:02:48Jack Murphy?

  They use your capabilities, but then when it, when, when they want to distance themselves from it, you know, you, you guys aren't like, you're not running the CIA now. Right? You know, it's like, okay, we're good. So, Rick, again, the last part of this, I think that we haven't really covered is, you got hired by Eric Prince to go work at Blackwater after your time at the agency. What was going on there?

• 2:03:16Speaker 07

  I was the first CIA officer employed at Blackwater. And what happened was, when I was doing the alleged training that I did at the end of my career, I didn't want to do it in any of our black sites, because people know me, and if we're doing this kind of stuff, they're going to come to the right conclusion. So I already had met Eric, because he was providing the security for our guys in Kabul. So I, you know, in Blackwater at the time was, you know, a hut with a couple of ranges. It was, you know, it was a pretty modest setup, little clubhouse, and, you know, very, very sterile. And I went to him and I said, look, you know, there's certain skills that I need to train on. And, you

• 2:03:58Speaker 07

  know, don't ask any questions, and I'll tell you what I need for training. And so that's when we got close, and he was watching us, you know, using suppressed weapons, and, you know, jump, you know, riding motorcycles, and dumping them, and shooting over the tanks, and all this kind of ninja stuff. And he was just fascinated. And so he said, look, you know, when I retired, he called me up, and he said, I want you to come. And I don't know exactly what you were doing, but I believe that that's the kind of stuff that our country needs to be able to do. And I don't want this to be part of my business. I want to

• 2:04:36Speaker 07

  be this by my payback to the country. And I'm going like, okay, so you mean, I'm going to be doing exactly what I've done all my life, but now you're going to pay me corporate money? He goes, yeah, I said, okay, that'll work. And the rest is history. Like I said, fortunately, I won't talk about those things, because none of those capabilities were ever compromised. We had substantial successes, intelligence successes. This wasn't hit teams, guys.

• 2:05:12Speaker 00

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• 2:06:36Speaker 07

  We're not, you know, shooting Abu Abu out of, out of windows and stuff like that. We were, we were bringing home some really great intelligence with, with the capabilities that worldwide that we developed. And, um, you know, there's, there's a lot of controversy with Eric Prince. Now, uh, there was back then also, but that was a political thing. Now, you know, supposedly he's involved in this and involved in that. I don't know anything about that. I, I, I still have him in hard regards. I'm an intelligence officer, so I work from facts. And the facts are that I know that the Eric Prince that I worked with for eight years was a patriot and that these operations were not a business thing.

• 2:07:19Speaker 07

  As a matter of fact, they, they, they really just reimbursed us for our expenses to put these networks together and all my travel and all my recruiting and all this kind of stuff. And all the training of teams and all that other stuff, they would just reimburse us for it. So, um, it was a very, again, blessed again, I landed in a place where I know I made a difference for those years. And, um, you know, the, the book is my last firefight. You know, the, the book is my last attempt to, I just turned 71, uh, last week. So, uh, you know, it's time I grow up and I just wanna, you know, ride my horse, ride my motorcycle and chase my wife.

• 2:07:59Jack Murphy?

  You say in the book that you're working for the intelligence community, but not the CIA during that timeframe?

• 2:08:07Speaker 07

  It was actually both, uh, on and off. It was, um, we had the menu of capabilities. And, uh, when they needed to visit one of our capabilities, uh, all it was, it was, uh, open to all, all, uh, all intel and military, whoever wanted everything. Um, yeah.

• 2:08:28Jack Murphy?

  But, but this was not assassinations. It was not renditions. It was, it was intelligence.

• 2:08:34Speaker 07

  Well, it, it, it could have been renditions. I'm not going to say that. I mean, we, we created overseas teams that were, you know, capable of doing intelligence work, et cetera. And that's as far as I will go.

• 2:08:48Speaker 07

  But it was not a punitive assassin squad. That I guarantee you wasn't anything we were doing.

• 2:08:54Jack Murphy?

  Rick, you know, cause you also mentioned Dewey Clarence, who also sort of maintained this sort of intelligence apparatus even after. Sometimes for profit and sometimes just for fun. It was like something that he enjoyed doing. What are your views on, on maintaining civilian outside of government or government sponsored, but maintaining civilian intelligence, uh, vehicles? Um, when the government doesn't see, you know, like, who do we have in Afghanistan prior to 9/11? Like, why do we care about Afghanistan? But you have civilians who can or do do this kind of stuff.

• 2:09:37Jack Murphy?

  Where do you see their role in the future and going forward?

• 2:09:41Speaker 07

  It is, it has always been there, guys. Uh, you know, first of all, the main job of the agency is to recruit foreign assets that can give us the intelligence that our country needs to make the right geopolitical decisions and to survive. It's to how we take care of our folks, whether it's counterterrorism, counter narcotics, whether it's communism, how do we protect them? So, you know, that's the first thing that we do. The second thing that the agency does is covert action, black ops. And that is those operations mandated by the White House, under our Title 50 authorities, to do whatever they tell us is legal for us to do. Those are, because we gotta hide the American hand.

• 2:10:24Speaker 07

  So for us to develop networks overseas, for example, you, you, you use the, the Afghanistan analogy. Well, you know, we did have people in Afghanistan. We had the Northern Alliance. We had an incredible relationship with the Northern Alliance. I remember being in front of Congress and some staffer, you know, that looked like he still had pimples in his face, asked me, well, why? I, I understand that you just approved a large budget to, uh, supply helicopters to those narco trafficking guys in, in, in the North Alliance, Northern Alliance. And I said, uh, you better go back and read your, um, your history here. The Northern Alliance is the only ally that we have in Afghanistan. And those guys abhor the Taliban and they abhor narco traffickers.

• 2:11:09Speaker 07

  We had just given them some helicopters parts and money for their F-7 teens. So, um, we develop these kind of sources and they, they can act the surrogates for us. Collecting intelligence, doing surveillance. I mean, you know, you take three tragically white guys and you put them in Africa. You know, your, your, your surveillance capabilities are limited, even if you're wearing the fancy stuff.

• 2:11:33Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 2:11:33Speaker 07

  Well, the force multiplier is recruit locals that you can vet, polygraph, train, and they become your long-term sources on the ground. That's what the agency does extremely well.

• 2:11:45Jack Murphy?

  And, and when, and then outside of like the CIA and the DIA, these civilian organizations that are sort of a little bit more nebulous, but are, but are still conducting these ops. Do you feel like there's a place for them to fill in the gaps?

• 2:12:04Speaker 07

  You know, um, that, that's the, uh, taint is not the right word, but if that's one of the things that they alleged about Blackwater, you know, uh, that, uh, and, and the thing is, these organizations that do work for the community from civilian platforms are first and foremost, for the most part, led by people that are former this, that, or the other. Whether former agency, former SEAL teams like Eric, and so on, so on. And second, they are, are under the same scrutiny that the government is.

• 2:12:38Speaker 07

  Um, you know, they cannot just go out there and start whacking people or, or, you know, uh, or doing illegal, everything is approved. The way that these things work with the private sector, or at least it did when I was in it, is the customer, USG, would come to us and say, can you get this?

• 2:12:57Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 2:12:58Speaker 07

  Can you get access to this? Can you recruit this? Can you compromise this? Let's say, uh, a, uh, a, a web, you know, place where you could get to some people's computers, whatever it is. And then we would develop a plan. We would propose it. They would bless it. They would fund it. We would go out. We did it. We came back. They got the goods and everybody lived happily ever after. So are they necessary? Of course. I mean, look, we, we are the, the only police in the world. And this is why I pray that the United States never gets forsaken.

• 2:13:38Speaker 07

  Because the day that we're forsaken, God has decided that the world's gonna end. Cause we are the only thing standing between us and select allies. Don't get me wrong. But let's face it, neither my, my, my good friends, the Brits or the Aussies can take over for the United States if we are destroyed.

• 2:13:58Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 2:13:59Speaker 07

  So, you know, uh, that, that capability has to be there. We, we have to have those kind of tools in, in our toolbox. Whether they're contractors, whether it's foreign nationals, whether it's black ops, we have to be able to do that in order to fight the fight. You know, every, we play by pretty clean rules compared to our, to our competition.

• 2:14:22Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 2:14:23Speaker 07

  You know, we, we recruit for strengths where the Russians and the Chinese will recruit for weaknesses. They'll compromise somebody, you know, dope them up or put, you know, dope them and put an 18-year-old girl in the bed with him or whatever and take pictures. We don't do that.

• 2:14:37Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 2:14:38Speaker 07

  But we still have to fight an MMA fight, not by Queensberry rules.

• 2:14:43Jack Murphy?

  Right. Rick's, on that, on that note, uh, I have one user question, uh, from a folk, uh, guy watching the show. He wants to. Ask you, did you ever have any run ins with the KGB or with Chinese intelligence during your career?

• 2:14:58Speaker 07

  Uh, no, I never worked directly against the KGB. Um, I did have an experience when I was in China that they, they obviously would I go any room overseas, I, I trap everything. So they had actually gone through my room and, and that kind of stuff, but I wasn't operational there anyway. I was there with my family. Um, I have worked the North Korean, uh, uh, account face to face. And the terrorists and the, the other stuff face to face, but, uh, not the KGB.

• 2:15:28Jack Murphy?

  Uh, we have a couple, a couple other questions from, from him real quick. Also, BPA Izzy, thank you very, he said, uh, another great interview. Keep it up. Thank you very much for your generous donation.

• 2:15:40Jack Murphy?

  Uh, when you were looking into OBL, uh, Osama Bin Laden, uh, what were your opinions on Alex station? Was it like the Manson family thing in, in the, or Mason family thing like in the looming towers?

• 2:15:54Speaker 07

  Yeah, that, that is again Hollywood, um, you know, they're dictating what the agency is supposed to be.

• 2:16:01Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 2:16:02Speaker 07

  No, you know, the, the bin Laden task force, uh, we started in, in late 95, early 96. And like I said, I'm a plank owner of it. I was a senior ops guy. We had two other case officers that were junior to me. We had the rest were analysts, including the chief, which was an analyst. They became the, the nucleus that grew and grew and grew into the, but the, you know, the full bin Laden task force of nine 11 kind of thing. There were some individuals in that task force that had been there for the duration. And that's where the Manson family idea comes from. You know, the Mike Schoyer is the, the God and all these people drink the Kool-Aid.

• 2:16:46Speaker 07

  And that, that, that wasn't true. Now, at the late, later on in the career, after he was, after, after Mike got crushed. Because Mike took everything, everything very personal. That's what made him good. I took everything personal too. But he took, you know, the, the, when we started seeing, and let me back up, when, when we started bin Laden, eight months afterwards, we knew what had bin Laden was doing every day. We had a guy named Billy Wa who was in charge of surveillance in Khartoum, a very dear friend of mine, legendary Green Beret from the Vietnam, Mac, the song days. That was photographing, following, you know, evaluating bin Laden on a daily basis.

• 2:17:27Speaker 07

  And at that time, he proposed and we proposed through, through, through, through allocation. A bunch of operations where we could have kidnapped him, brought, brought him to justice. We knew what he was doing. All the intel sources, human and everything else were indicating what he was doing, training terrorists and becoming a godfather. And we didn't. So when we had these opportunities, even after that, we had opportunities to neutralize bin Laden. And we didn't because the political will wasn't there. When we got hit with a cold.

• 2:18:00Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:01Speaker 07

  And then the, the, the, the two embassies in Africa, uh, there was a lot of people in, in, in the bin Laden task force that took it very personal.

• 2:18:12Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 2:18:13Speaker 07

  They took it very personal because they knew firsthand that we could have stopped this.

• 2:18:17Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 2:18:18Speaker 07

  If we would have intercepted back then. So again, it is, it is prostituting the reality of what the agency is. Then we have people that were strong nose and, you know, really, uh, uh, fanatical about bin Laden. Absolutely. That's what makes us good.

• 2:18:34Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 2:18:34Speaker 07

  You know, you can't, you gotta believe in what you're doing. If you're working, you know, 50 hour weeks all your life.

• 2:18:39Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 2:18:39Speaker 07

  You know, um, but obviously what sells in Hollywood is the Manson family and the, uh, the inner scene kind of stuff. So the answer is no.

• 2:18:49Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. And I mean, that must, I can't imagine how crushing that would be to be like the people on that test force to, to have, I guess, that foresight. Right. And then, and then, and then, like you said, the cold, the embassies, and then nine 11, and people are like, how did this happen? And these people who have been working this going, yeah, we know how it happened. We told you it was gonna happen.

• 2:19:16Speaker 07

  Yeah, you know, and that, that's something that Mike, um, did, uh, that ended his career. Uh, and I can't say I blame him.

• 2:19:25Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 2:19:26Speaker 07

  But at the end of the day, we are a military based organization. Where the chain of command and respect for the chain of command is something that, you know, we're a little better than the military because we could have a, a, a lieutenant talk to a general.

• 2:19:41Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 2:19:41Speaker 07

  Um, but you still have to be respectful and you still have to make your point in a civil way. And my understanding, I was not there when it happened, uh, Mike and, and a couple of other folks that were with him. Um, you know, they, they really put the blame on, on the leadership and, you know, the blood, this blood is in your hands.

• 2:19:59Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 2:20:00Speaker 07

  And you, you don't do that.

• 2:20:01Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 2:20:01Speaker 07

  It's, you know,

• 2:20:01Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, well, it's kind of unfair. Um, we have a couple more. The book is Black Ops, The Life of a CIA Shadow Warrior by Rick Prado. Yeah, guys, check it out. It's on Amazon. It's wherever you buy your books. I, I, I read a lot of these books for this show, as you can tell. Um, this was, this was a really insightful one and I hope you guys will check it out. Um, KT, thank you very much. Please ask Rick if he has an opinion on the Cuban patriot, uh, Carlos, uh, Bringware? Bringware or Valerie Kost, uh, Kostikov, KGB chief in Mexico City?

• 2:20:32Speaker 07

  Uh, no comment of those.

• 2:20:34Jack Murphy?

  Okay. Um, and Brad, thank you very much. Was there any separation focus from DOD intel operations versus, uh, CIA SAD in Afghanistan, Iraq?

• 2:20:46Speaker 07

  There was collaboration, uh, in, in force. I mean, you know, like when nine 11 happened, uh, immediately, I mean, days after. We had a representative of some Delta force and a representative of some SEAL Team Six there. One of them to this day is a very good friend of mine. He ended up being the chief of ops at Delta. Uh, so, you know, we, we have that cross pollination has always been there. Like I said earlier. CTC especially has always been very, uh, you know, full of sister agencies and military and, and, and stuff like that. In Afghanistan and Iraq, we, we worked a lot of things together.

• 2:21:24Speaker 07

  Especially in, in, in Iraq and Afghanistan, when it came to exploitation of intelligence and being able to real time bounce it back to the, the action forces. And as, as, I know you've read about this in, in Iraq and Afghanistan. There were times where the guys would go out to hit one house and they would end up hitting three. Because they would come out with, you know, the photo of somebody or a phone, and then that would lead to another house. And before they even got back into their vehicles, they would go to the next house and we, they were hitting two or three, three houses a night. So it was a very robust, um, cooperation and, um, yeah, it, it's, it existed and very proud of that.

• 2:22:04Jack Murphy?

  So last, last question I have, what's next for Rick Prado? Seventy one years old, wrote your memoir. Here we are. What, what, what is, what's next? What's in your sights?

• 2:22:17Speaker 07

  I want to stay in shape. I want to ride my horse. I want to ride my motorcycle and I want to spend as much time I can with my wife. And my kids and grandkids and all that other stuff.

• 2:22:25Jack Murphy?

  So, so no, no mafia? No rendition, no, uh, no assassination?

• 2:22:31Speaker 07

  No, definitely, definitely no mafia. So I gave those up for Lent, uh, back in, uh, when I was 17 years old. Um, but, um, look, I, I would be lying to you if I told you that if they knocked on my door tomorrow and they said, hey, could you handle this? And if I thought that I could, uh, obviously I'm not going to be jumping out of airplanes anymore. I've had three neck surgeries because of free fall. Um, and, uh, I am 71 years old. I'm in pretty good shape for an old man, but when you consider the model year and the, uh, the mileage. Uh, the ninja stuff isn't there, but you know, if, if, if they called me to do something, I could never say no.

• 2:23:10Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:10Speaker 07

  But that's not my intent. I'm not looking for it. I'm not looking for work. I've given up my stuff at Fort Bragg, which I, I loved. I love working the ASOT course because I was working with Raiders. I was working with SEALs. I was working with PJs, combat controllers and Green Berets. And it was so revitalizing for me to see these young guys with three, four tours in the combat, wanting to go back, willing to go back. It, it will, it will recharge my batteries for months. So, uh, but I gave it all up because I, I need to, you know, I, I think I did after 51 years. Uh, this is it.

• 2:23:48Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:49Speaker 07

  This is really it.

• 2:23:49Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, we, we didn't talk about it enough in the, in, in this interview, but, uh, about your wife Carmen, who stuck by you through all this. Insanity. Um, just sounds like an incredible story in of itself.

• 2:24:02Speaker 07

  Well, there's a couple of cool stories about her.

• 2:24:04Jack Murphy?

  In the book.

• 2:24:05Speaker 07

  Uh, little things that she was able to do. And there's, there's two stories that I'm very proud of that women uh that are, that I highlighted because of their courage and conviction and ingenuity and dedication. And uh, yeah, I'm very proud of my wife. She's Cuban born also, by the way. So that I think that that had a lot to do with uh, her support. She knew. And you know, she's finding out about all this stuff now that she's reading the book.

• 2:24:32Jack Murphy?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:24:33Speaker 07

  And that 90% of the stuff she had no idea, except the things that she did for me. Yeah.

• 2:24:38Jack Murphy?

  Hey Rick, we have a question from one of our Patreon subscribers that might, like, a lot of people listening to this might have a lot of younger people. And he says, Dear Ms. Prado, I was medically, uh, I was not medically qualified for the military, so I stayed in school. Right now I'm in my first year of university, going for my bachelor's in computer information systems, and he wants to get his master's in cybersecurity. However, I want to join the agency when I'm done. Uh, but I want you to be part of like PM missions like you were, but I'm afraid it'll be the same story like when I tried to enlist.

• 2:25:11Jack Murphy?

  Can you tell us a bit about the different courses and how people who are interested in the agency might get, get in it?

• 2:25:17Speaker 07

  Well, you know, the, the, there's two distinct paths for the agency. One is through the paramilitary side, and that um, is mostly, I, I'm 99.9% former military folks. I can tell you an example, a very dear friend of mine who uh, was a case officer, came to me and said, I want to go do this ninja stuff. And he started in CTC and he went to Ground Branch. And he retired as a GS-15 and he's a rotary and fixed wing pilot, skydiver, shooter, looter, and he's got like four or five tours in the sandbox. But he did not have medical restrictions to do the paramilitary stuff. And you got to understand that the, the, the main problem with paramilitary stuff is you have to be physically able to help your partner.

• 2:26:03Speaker 07

  Uh, let's face it, we fight, you know, we go into combat for God and country, but we end up fighting for the person that's left to you and right of you.

• 2:26:09Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:10Speaker 07

  So you have to be able to do certain things. That, that said, there are so many jobs in the agency that are exciting, that they're dangerous, that will let you get good training for shooting and driving and all that other stuff. Um, I know guys that have prosthetics. I have guys that have really bad, bad eyesight. Um, and some handicap, they end up being very successful operations officers. But not skydiving out of a, you know, of a C-17A to uh, to go into Iran. You know, that's not gonna happen.

• 2:26:44Jack Murphy?

  And some of those tech guys, from what we've talked to in the past, some of those tech guys work side by side with like paramilitary officers and all, in a lot of situations.

• 2:26:52Speaker 07

  Absolutely. Look, we, we, we could not exist as an agency without our intelligence officers, our collector, you know, our, our analysts, the people that really have the brain cells and the patience to comb through thousands and thousands, the Mike Shorers of the world, okay?

• 2:27:10Speaker 07

  Our, our, our technical capabilities are paramount for us. In both the protecting our communications and exploiting communications, uh, technology, cyber. All these things are incredible careers for the agency. Uh, we even have a paramilitary-like organization in the DDSMT, the Director of Science and Technology, which are, they, for the longest time, they were called also especially Activities Division. Because these are guys and gals who are super high-tech at bugging and, and doing all kinds of fancy stuff. We're compromising computers, but they're going out there and doing it themselves.

• 2:27:51Speaker 07

  So um, there, there's plenty of action in the, in the agency at every level. Um, don't let your, your physical uh, cap, uh, you know, limitations keep you from applying to the agency. You, you will have, I, I, I'm a believer, guys, you will have a great career in the agency in spite of the politics uh, that, that exist and permeate all, all, all forms of government life. You will have a rewarding career. You really would.

• 2:28:22Jack Murphy?

  Folks, thanks, Rick. Rick Prado, Black Ops. This is the book. I hope you guys will go and check it out. Rick, thank you so much for joining us tonight on a Friday evening. We really appreciate it. And you shared your story with us. Next week, we're going to be back. We're going to have a, a Barsock Raider on the show. Talk about his experience deploying overseas. And Rick, final thoughts? Anything you, you, any final things you want to lay on us before we go?

• 2:28:47Speaker 07

  No, I really appreciate the support, guys, and, and I would be uh, remiss if I didn't say that, you know, my book made uh, the top 10 in the New York Times Bestseller List uh, 10 days after it came out. So uh, I'm very proud of that. And, and the goal is to educate as many people as possible about what our agency and, and our government and our, our unsung heroes really do on a daily basis.

• 2:29:11Jack Murphy?

  Folks, like, read the book. And you know, what is great about books like this, and we've had these on before, that you know, when, when somebody like Rick writes a book, it has to go through the pre-publication review board. The CIA has to, they read it, they approve what's in it. And you can go in and literally see where the CIA has blacked that out and said, no. Yeah, if, if you, if you read my book, you can see where I filled in the blanks with my pen.

• 2:29:41Jack Murphy?

  But read this book. You will not regret it. Rick, thank you so much. We really appreciate it.

• 2:29:48Speaker 07

  Thank you, guys. And thank you for what you do, because you, you guys are supporting us, and that's, that's huge. Thank you very much. God bless.

• 2:29:54Jack Murphy?

  We're really happy to help share the story, man. Thank you.

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  Oh, I have had no luck lately. Wait, Lady Luck?

• 2:53:23Speaker 02

  Brett, see, I got you. I've had so much luck on spinquest.com. They have all of my favorite games, slot games, live blackjack, craps, and bubble craps. You can even get a $30 coin pack for just $10.

• 2:53:36Speaker 00

  $10 for 30? I'm headed over to spinquest.com right now.

• 2:53:40Speaker 01

  Spinquest is a free-to-play social casino. Void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

• 2:53:48Speaker 02

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. 911, what's your emergency? Please help us, they're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 2:54:27Speaker 01

  911 Nashville returns.

• 2:54:29Speaker 04

  It's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground.

• 2:54:33Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 2:54:35Speaker 04

  I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 2:54:42Speaker 01

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new.

• 2:54:45Speaker 03

  Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 2:54:56Speaker 03

  This message is brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union. Kick off unforgettable travel journeys with Navy Federal's Flagship Premier Card. You'll get four times points on all travel. Yes, all travel. So if you book a hotel, you'll earn four times points. If you book a flight, you'll earn four times points. Even if you book a rideshare, you'll earn four times points. Plus, you'll earn three times points on dining. And unlike other cards, it doesn't require you to use any booking portals and has no rewards limits. So earning points couldn't be easier. It's all the travel, none of the baggage. So whether your next journey takes you hiking through a national park, relaxing on a beach, staying at a resort, or visiting somewhere on your bucket list, you can earn four times points on all your travel with the Flagship Premier Card.

• 2:55:41Speaker 03

  Visit navyfederal.org/flagshippremiere to find out more. Navy Federal Credit Union. Our members are the mission. Navy Federal is insured by NCUA. Terms and conditions apply for rewards.

• 2:55:55Speaker 02

  When intimate itch strikes, waiting it out isn't always an option. That's why there's Vagisil Maximum Strength Anti-Ich Cream. It provides fast relief from intense external feminine itching and burning. And 92% of women said Vagisil provided long-lasting itch relief. Intimate itch can have more than 60 causes. From everyday things like shaving, pads, tight clothing, to yeast infection-related irritation, Vagisil helps protect delicate skin from further irritation. Trusted by generations, clinically and gynecologists tested. Don't let discomfort get in the way. Visit vagisil.com to find the relief that's right for you.

• 2:56:27Speaker 00

  Happy birthday, America. It's time to celebrate and play your favorite Las Vegas casino games by American-owned Spinquest.com. What's better than fireworks and American pie? Hitting a blackjack in the palm of your hand, and you won't lose your fingers. Over 1,000 games, including slots and live dealers. And $30 coin packs are on sale for 10. Spinquest.com. Buy American players for American players.

• 2:56:52Speaker 01

  Spinquest is a free-to-play social casino. Void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

• 2:56:58Speaker 02

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. 911, what's your emergency? Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 2:57:36Speaker 04

  911 Nashville returns. What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. Oh, since swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Bryant-Philippi, 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 2:58:03Speaker 03

  This message is brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union. Kick off unforgettable travel journeys with Navy Federal's Flagship Premier Card. You'll get four times points on all travel. Yes, all travel. So if you book a hotel, you'll earn four times points. If you book a flight, you'll earn four times points. Even if you book a rideshare, you'll earn four times points. Plus, you'll earn three times points on dining. And unlike other cards, it doesn't require you to use any booking portals and has no rewards limits. So earning points couldn't be easier. It's all the travel, none of the baggage. So whether your next journey takes you hiking through a national park, relaxing on a beach, staying at a resort, or visiting somewhere on your bucket list, you can earn four times

• 2:58:46Speaker 03

  points on all your travel with the Flagship Premier Card. Visit navyfederal.org/flagshippremiere to find out more. Navy Federal Credit Union. Our members are the mission. Navy Federal is insured by NCUA. Terms and conditions apply for rewards.

• 2:59:03Speaker 02

  When intimate itch strikes, waiting it out isn't always an option. That's why there's Vagisil Maximum Strength Anti-Ich Cream. It provides fast relief from intense external feminine itching and burning. And 92% of women said Vagisil provided long-lasting itch relief. Intimate itch can have more than 60 causes. From everyday things like shaving, pads, tight clothing, to yeast infection-related irritation, Vagisil helps protect delicate skin from further irritation. Trusted by generations, clinically and gynecologists tested. Don't let discomfort get in the way. Visit vagisil.com to find the relief that's right for you.

• 2:59:36Speaker 00

  Oh, I have had no luck lately. Wait, lady luck? Bristy, I got you. I've had so much luck on Spinquest.com. They have all of my favorite games, slot games, live blackjack craps, and bubble craps. You can even get a $30 coin pack for just 10 bucks. 10 bucks for 30? I'm adding it over to Spinquest.com right now.

• 2:59:57Speaker 01

  Spinquest is a free-to-play social casino. Void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

• 3:00:05Speaker 02

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. 911, what's your emergency? Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 3:00:43Speaker 04

  911 Nashville returns. What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. Oh, since swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Bryant-Philippi, 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 3:01:10Speaker 03

  This message is brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union. Kick off unforgettable travel journeys with Navy Federal's Flagship Premier Card. You'll get four times points on all travel. Yes, all travel. So if you book a hotel, you'll earn four times points. If you book a flight, you'll earn four times points. Even if you book a rideshare, you'll earn four times points. Plus, you'll earn three times points on dining. And unlike other cards, it doesn't require you to use any booking portals and has no rewards limits. So earning points couldn't be easier. It's all the travel, none of the baggage. So whether your next journey takes you hiking through a national park, relaxing on a beach, staying at a resort, or visiting somewhere on your bucket list, you can earn four times points on all your travel with the Flagship Premier Card.

• 3:01:55Speaker 03

  Visit navyfederal.org/flagshippremiere to find out more. Navy Federal Credit Union. Our members are the mission. Navy Federal is insured by NCUA. Terms and conditions apply for rewards.

• 3:02:09Speaker 02

  When intimate itch strikes, waiting it out isn't always an option. That's why there's Vagisil Maximum Strength Anti-Ich Cream. It provides fast relief from intense external feminine itching and burning. And 92% of women said Vagisil provided long-lasting itch relief. Intimate itch can have more than 60 causes. From everyday things like shaving, pads, tight clothing, to yeast infection-related irritation, Vagisil helps protect delicate skin from further irritation. Trusted by generations, clinically and gynecologists tested. Don't let discomfort get in the way. Visit vagisil.com to find the relief that's right for you.

• 3:02:42Speaker 00

  Hanging out at the pool is great. Relaxing and playing Vegas-style games on my phone at the same time. Drinking one hand and a blackjack in the other. It's all at Spinquest. Over 1,000 games, including your favorite slots and table games. Be cool with this summer special. New players get $30 coin packs for 10 at spinquest.com.

• 3:03:05Speaker 01

  Spinquest is a free-to-play social casino. Void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

• 3:03:12Speaker 02

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. 911, what's your emergency? Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 3:03:50Speaker 04

  911 Nashville.

• 3:03:51Speaker 01

  Nashville returns.

• 3:03:52Speaker 04

  It's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground.

• 3:03:55Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 3:03:58Speaker 04

  I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 3:04:05Speaker 01

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 3:04:16Speaker 03

  This message is brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union. Kick off unforgettable travel journeys with Navy Federal's Flagship Premier Card. You'll get four times points on all travel. Yes, all travel. So if you book a hotel, you'll earn four times points. If you book a flight, you'll earn four times points. Even if you book a rideshare, you'll earn four times points. Plus, you'll earn three times points on dining. And unlike other cards, it doesn't require you to use any booking portals and has no rewards limits. So earning points couldn't be easier. It's all the travel, none of the baggage. So whether your next journey takes you hiking through a national park, relaxing on a beach, staying at a resort, or visiting somewhere on your bucket list,

• 3:04:58Speaker 03

  you can earn four times points on all your travel with the Flagship Premier Card. Visit NavyFederal.org/flagshippremier to find out more. Navy Federal Credit Union. Our members are the mission. Navy Federal is insured by NCUA. Terms and conditions apply for rewards.

• 3:05:16Speaker 02

  When intimate itch strikes, waiting it out isn't always an option. That's why there's Vagisil Maximum Strength Anti-Ich Cream. It provides fast relief from intense external feminine itching and burning. And 92% of women said Vagisil provided long-lasting itch relief. Intimate itch can have more than 60 causes. From everyday things like shaving, pads, tight clothing, to yeast-infection-related irritation, Vagisil helps protect delicate skin from further irritation. Trusted by generations, clinically and gynecologist-tested. Don't let discomfort get in the way. Visit Vagisil.com to find the relief that's right for you.

• 3:05:49Speaker 01

  Oh, I have had no luck lately. Wait, lady luck?

• 3:05:53Speaker 02

  Brett's key, I got you. I've had so much luck on Spinquest.com. They have all of my favorite games, slot games, live blackjack craps, and bubble craps. You can even get a $30 coin pack for just $10.

• 3:06:06Speaker 01

  $10 for 30? I'm adding it over to Spinquest.com right now. Spinquest is a free-to-play social casino. Void where prohibited. Visit Spinquest.com for more details.

• 3:06:18Speaker 01

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at OnDeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 3:06:47Speaker 02

  911, what's your emergency? Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder women.

• 3:06:55Speaker 01

  911 Nashville returns.

• 3:06:57Speaker 04

  It's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground.

• 3:07:00Speaker 01

  With emergencies of biblical proportions.

• 3:07:03Speaker 04

  I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues of the Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 3:07:10Speaker 01

  Brian Phillippe joins 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 3:07:16Speaker 04

  In business, there's the easy way with Staples or the hard way. Hard means...

• 3:07:20Speaker 02

  Jen, did you get the weekend specials menus from the printer by any chance? No, they said they'll be done on Monday. But they're weekend specials. Easy means Staples Same-Day Custom Printing, where same day means same day. Hard means... Our new brochures are back from the print place. So how do they look? Well, our logo is brown. But our logo isn't brown. It is now. Easy means custom prints, perfectly printed. Don't choose hard, choose Staples.

• 3:07:43Speaker 01

  That was Easy. Shop Staples online in-store in the app.

• 3:07:47Speaker 00

  Forget whatever plans you have this weekend because you're staying at home and playing on Spinquest. And there's never been a better time to sign up than right now. New users get $30 coin packs for just $10. All the table games you love, with hundreds of slot games and real cash prizes. That's at Spinquest.com. S-P-I-N-Q-U-E-S-T.com.

• 3:08:09Speaker 01

  Spinquest is a free-to-play social casino. Void where prohibited. Visit Spinquest.com for more details.

• 3:08:16Speaker 01

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at OnDeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 3:08:46Speaker 02

  You're halfway through your to-do list, iced matcha in hand, and the day's still not slowing down. Good skincare should keep up without overcomplicating things. Overuse of active ingredients can damage your skin's moisture barrier. New Aquaphor Hydrating Daily Lotion is gentle enough for all skin types, including sensitive skin. It's lightweight and fast-absorbing on skin. Even though your afternoon's packed, your skin's moisture barrier is unbothered. Grab Aquaphor Hydrating Daily Lotion at your nearest retailer. There's before, and then there's Aquaphor.

• 3:09:17Speaker 02

  Some days, it's the little things you look forward to most. And with Pepperidge Farm's thoughtfully crafted cookies, there's always something worth savoring. Maybe it's a Milano, made with premium chocolate between two delicate biscuits. A Sausalito, baked with rich milk chocolate chunks and macadamia nuts. Or the simple, buttery goodness of a chestman. So pour the coffee, find a comfy chair, and take a moment to treat yourself to a cookie. Or two. Pepperidge Farm, have a little taste.