Lewis Howes on athlete mindset, conversation with Kobe Bryant, ego vs masculinity, overcoming traumas, accountability between Ryan, Channing and Fred as the guys share their own struggles

"Someone watching this may say what a little Bi*%h...and that's fine, a bad day for the ego is a good day for the soul." Today's conversation is a little different and by different we mean even better. So often we sit with our guests who open up, share their experiences for us all to take something away from it...but today, we shed our armor and allow our vulnerable sides to come through as we listen, learn and create a space for others like ourselves to be vulnerable too. Many times as men, especially athletes, we are instilled with a mentality that toughness means never showing emotion, fear or weakness. And while that can be true when playing a sport, working towards a milestone or competing for championships, it's not always the best approach with our personal and everyday lives. To help guide this discussion, Ryan, Channing and Fred sit down with 2x New York Times bestselling author and top podcast host of The School of Greatness, Lewis Howes, also a former two-sport All-American athlete, as he shares the different seasons of his life, lessons learned along the way and how he pivoted from darker times to the top of podcast and book charts. But how did he get there? How did he convert his athlete mentality into motivation and transition fears into finding success in unlikely areas? What wisdom can he share with Pivot listeners and how can his words help us? Intrigued from the start.... Ryan, Channing and Fred dive into a life changing conversation they never knew they needed to have. With over 1700 episodes and impactful conversations with elite athletes, entertainers, entrepreneurs and health and wellness experts, Lewis has set the tone in this space creating awareness, implementing techniques and he shares how his time spent with Kobe Bryant was the most impactful experience which helped shape his purpose in podcasting. Everybody experiences trauma, but not everybody learns to respond to hard experiences with a growth mindset. From sexual abuse growing up to a brother in prison, parents divorcing and a father who was in a coma for months after a serious car accident, Lewis has gone on a mission to share his story, help others deal with their traumas while exploring fears, masculinity, relationships and understanding emotions. At the end of the day, it's ok not to be ok and be open on our feelings, thoughts and struggles. Being honest, the four men acknowledge that conversations like these don't happen enough (filmed or not filmed) and towards the end of the episode, Lewis takes a moment to ask Ryan, Channing and Fred about themselves and the bond each has with one another while encouraging each other to share what they see as strengths and weaknesses in their everyday lives. The three guys have a tough conversation and hold each other accountable for things they see and share their hopes for one another while dealing with some tough emotions and real-life moments. Extremely powerful as each opens up and we are drawn in as if we are a part of the conversation. "It's a lot to unpack...this is deep." Ryan Clark New episodes drop on Tuesdays at 12 p.m. ET and Fridays at 3:30 p.m ET on YouTube, with audio available on all streaming platforms including Apple, Spotify and Amazon. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Are your ad campaigns lighting up the dashboard? But not the pipeline? That's bull spend. And marketers are calling it out in. Dashboard Confessions.

• 0:09Speaker 01

  My boss asked for results, so I opened my dashboard for the only positive sounding metric I had. Impressions.

• 0:17Speaker 00

  Cut the bull spend. See revenue, not just reach. LinkedIn delivers the highest return on ad spend of major ad networks. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit. Go to LinkedIn.com/campaign. Terms and conditions apply.

• 0:30Ryan Clark?

  You were basically just like bestselling author, motivational speaking, podcast host size.

• 0:36Fred Taylor?

  Yes. It's ice cream. You're my motivation now. I tell them all the time. When we started to pivot, before I retired, I said, "I'll never be 240." Got with these guys right here to pivot. Yeah, I know, right? Trying to get it out.

• 0:51Ryan Clark?

  Do you know what it is too, though?

• 0:52Fred Taylor?

  Trying to get it out.

• 0:53Speaker 04

  What do you got now?

• 0:54Fred Taylor?

  Right now? I've been, I've been trying. We just had lunch.

• 0:58Ryan Clark?

  It's travel.

• 0:59Fred Taylor?

  I had a good grilled chicken.

• 1:01Ryan Clark?

  It's that, and I'm like, I'm a snacker. So if I'm up, if I'm up at 11 o'clock, I'm definitely ordering Domino's. It's like, I'm getting, and I'm not ordering like Caesar. No, you're getting all of it. Yeah, I want a pizza. And then I want the snacks. I want the little brownies, the cinnamon twists.

• 1:19Fred Taylor?

  You wanted to hit right.

• 1:20Ryan Clark?

  I do it all.

• 1:21Fred Taylor?

  So you can sleep like a baby.

• 1:22Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I do it all. Then I wake up mad at myself, though.

• 1:25Fred Taylor?

  So I retired at like 31, 32. I said, "I'll never be 240."

• 1:31Ryan Clark?

  Yes, sir.

• 1:32Speaker 04

  Congrats on all the, all the success you guys have. It's inspiring to watch. Two years, you guys have blown up.

• 1:37Ryan Clark?

  Man, thank you.

• 1:37Speaker 04

  Right? It's been two years?

• 1:39Ryan Clark?

  Two and a half now.

• 1:39Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, two and a half.

• 1:40Speaker 04

  Man, you guys are crushing.

• 1:41Ryan Clark?

  Get an opportunity to sit with someone like you who approaches it from a different lane as far as your podcast, but also writing, motivational speaking, the story. And so that's what we try to do. And that's why we were excited about sitting with you. Because it also, there's going to be some Lewis Howes fans who watch our show just because you're on it.

• 2:00Speaker 04

  Sure, sure, of course.

• 2:01Ryan Clark?

  You know, and so like that's the...

• 2:02Speaker 04

  Drawing and bringing in audiences is the key.

• 2:04Ryan Clark?

  Exactly, exactly.

• 2:05Channing Crowder?

  Chest hair is not sexy.

• 2:08Fred Taylor?

  Chandler, I don't want you to think it's sexy.

• 2:09Channing Crowder?

  No woman thinks it's sexy.

• 2:11Speaker 04

  Sometimes.

• 2:12Ryan Clark?

  He looks like Louis sometimes.

• 2:14Channing Crowder?

  Really?

• 2:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, the right women.

• 2:20Speaker 06

  Man Louis Howes, man, welcome to the Pivot.

• 2:25Ryan Clark?

  Thanks, man.

• 2:26Speaker 06

  Best selling author, obviously one of the greatest podcasters in the game. And you've really set the tone for shows like ours to delve into things, you know, we'll get into your athletic background that they think athletes shouldn't be able to do. So, thank you for that. We have Fred Taylor, Channing Crowder, and Ryan Clark. Welcome to the Pivot, a part of Fanatics. You know, I normally just jump right into it. You work your way from dealing with some difficult things as a youngster. You're now a college athlete. Your father's your mentor, your coach, someone that's extremely close to you that you've shared your football dreams and you get a phone call that he's been an accident. Take me back to the emotion of that moment.

• 3:06Ryan Clark?

  I had gone away from Ohio, I'm from a small town called Delaware, Ohio, but I'd gone away from central Ohio to play in other schools, other colleges in the Midwest. But my senior year, I said, I want to come back to Ohio to be close to my dad because he would fly out to see all my games. I was fortunate that in high school and college, he came to almost every game, basketball, track, football. My sophomore year, I broke a world record for the most receiving yards in a single game.

• 3:35Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 3:36Ryan Clark?

  418 yards in one game.

• 3:37Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 3:38Ryan Clark?

  And he had one guy on me, then two guys, you know, then three. It's like everything was just in the flow that game.

• 4:15Speaker 04

  But I didn't get All-American status at the end of the year. And I remember thinking, if I want to make it to the pros in a D3 level, I need to be on a team that's winning, that gets to the national championship, or I need to be an All-American, but we are a 500 team. So I didn't get recognized for, even though I had the second most yards that year as a receiver. Junior year, we don't have a good quarterback. And so I don't do as well individually, and our team doesn't do well. So I think I need to go find a great team. But at that time, you couldn't bump up in divisions without sitting out a year. I didn't want to sit out a year. And so I was always thinking Ohio State, but I didn't have the size or the speed or the talent of you guys. And so I was playing D3 level, and I kind of developed later.

• 4:58Speaker 04

  So my senior year, I meet a guy. I'm training in Chicago in the summer. And I meet a guy who's like, we've got an All-American quarterback in Columbus, Ohio, at Capital University, a small school next to Ohio State. But we've got a great team, we're winning a lot. So I said, let me come back home and play with these guys. Second game of the season, the night before the second game of the season, I get a call, and it's the one game that my dad is going to miss. Because he went on a vacation with his then-girlfriend at the time. My parents got divorced. I get a call late at night from my sister, and right away, I just said, what happened to Dad? Something, I felt an energy was like, late at night, I never get a call late at night before a game, and I just felt something was off. And my sister couldn't even really speak.

• 5:43Speaker 04

  She's crying, she's trying to tell me what had happened, that he had an accident in New Zealand, a car. He was driving, and another car came on top of his car, hit him through the windshield. They had to open the car, airlift him out, and he was in a coma. And so I didn't know at this moment, is he alive? Is he dead? What's happening? I'm just thinking, what do I do? You know, my dad might be alive, he might be dead. He's in the hospital, I don't have a lot of information. It's a different time zone, different country, this is 2004, 2005. And...

• 6:21Speaker 04

  I call my brother, my siblings, I go, you know, what do we do? Do we go fly over there? My brother says, just play tomorrow. Like, there's nothing you can do until we get more information. Just play, I'll come to the game. So I remember I show up the last, second to last play of the game. Uh, we're down, I catch a football to try to go score and win. I get pier- uh, speared in the side by someone probably like you.

• 6:45Channing Crowder?

  Probably so.

• 6:46Speaker 04

  And, uh, break three ribs. The last play of the game, we don't score the touchdown, we lose. Now, three broken ribs, second game of the season, my senior year. And I'm thinking, my, my career's done as an athlete. My dream as a professional athlete is no longer here. I may not be able to play. And I don't know if my dad is alive at this moment. So I remember just feeling very alone and scared for, and uncertain about what the rest of my, I guess, dreams and life would be like.

• 7:21Speaker 04

  It was kind of a pro and con what happened. You know, I don't want to get injured, but because of the pain, I didn't go on the plane to New Zealand. My sisters went on a plane to go see my, my dad, to visit him in the hospital when he was in a coma. He was in a coma for a couple of months. The pain was so intense that I just needed to stay and recover. And I said, I'll come when I can. Now, I started to recover within a couple of weeks, enough where I could wear a pad. And I said, I think I can play. And my dad is still in a coma. My sister said, why don't you just stay and play for your, for dad for this season? Because he's not awake yet. We don't know what's gonna happen. And if he wakes up, then you can come over. And he, he ended up waking up around Thanksgiving, you know, a couple of months later at the end of the season.

• 8:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was a very scary time.

• 8:07Channing Crowder?

  Did that create what you're doing? Like, just listening to the story, I haven't heard this side of it. As I would almost want you to keep going with it to see like... To do what you've done so far, it seems like it was honestly some trauma that happened for you to be able to inspire other people.

• 8:25Speaker 04

  I mean, we've all gone through our own traumas. When I was, my first memory is when I was being sexually abused by a man that I didn't know at five years old. So it's one of my first memories as a, as a young boy and as a man, I still have that memory today. And I know each one of us in this room have some types of family trauma, personal traumas, relationship trauma, parental traumas, things we're ashamed of, things we did, we're not proud of. You guys probably know the stats, one in, one in six men have been sexually abused, one in four women have been sexually abused. The thing is, I thought I was the only one growing up because, I don't know about you guys, I never saw guys like you on the TV growing up saying, hey, this happened to me when I was younger. And I'm starting to process it and talk about it.

• 9:08Speaker 04

  When I tried to put my arm around my buddies growing up, they would push me off and tell me like, don't be a girl, don't be this, don't be that. So I didn't think I could even just express general affection with my brothers or teammates without being made fun of. So I'm thinking, oh, I must be the only one in the world that this has happened to. And what type of a boy, what type of a man am I, what, you know, how weak am I, all these different things. So a lot of my drive as an athlete was to prove people wrong about the different abuses. You know, my brother went to prison for four and a half years when I was eight. So my early memories were sexual abuse, my parents always fighting, my brother in prison and visiting a prison every weekend for four and a half years.

• 9:51Speaker 04

  He went to prison for selling drugs to an undercover cop in the nineties when it was the war against drugs. And just being around fear and uncertainty and a lack of emotional safety. So that was kind of my upbringing and sports was the outlet, as I'm assuming it was for each one of you, for something to feel like I have power, I have authority, I have acceptance, I have brotherhood, I have.

• 10:19Speaker 04

  Validation, whatever it might be, like I needed some type of control. And I also wanted to belong, because I didn't feel like I belonged. And I think we all probably have that in some way, shape or form. But that was, for me, that my dad going through that experience in college was another layer of trauma. And I remember that, that experience, thinking to myself, I just saw him a week ago. I don't know if he's gonna live or die. I think he was in his early 50s at that time, and I go, the only thing I can think about is, if he does die, he would want me to go after my dreams. And so I said, I am gonna go all in on what my heart is calling me to do,

• 11:04Speaker 04

  because I may die at any moment, just like he may die. We all might die, right? And that became a focus also. Where I wasn't the most talented, again, I was a D3 player. It wasn't like I was the best or something in college. But I knew I had some gifts. And I was like, how could I maximize these gifts to, to the fullest? And go after it. And if I fail, at least I went for it. So that became a big driver. I don't want to regret not going for it. And I was telling Fred earlier, it's like, I was making 250 bucks a week playing arena ball. Yeah. In Huntsville, Alabama. Uh, you know, and we were getting food stamps. I don't know if you guys were aware, they're like, arena ball, you're not making money, right? You live with a roommate that they pay for your housing. So I got a roommate on the team.

• 11:47Speaker 04

  I'm getting food stamps every week and making 250 a week. But I tell you what, that 250 a week, I felt like a king. I was like, I'm getting paid to play pro ball? Pay me a dollar, man, this is amazing, you know, I was like, you guys were getting big contracts, but I was like, I'll, I'll freaking do whatever. He was. Yeah.

• 12:05Fred Taylor?

  Come on, man. But yeah, we, we were talking and, and, and I told Lewis, we would look, or I personally, I would look at the arena ball player, arena league players, and say, those guys are crazy. Like, running up against the wall and, and hitting that, hitting the wall. Louis said he, uh, he hurt his wrist.

• 12:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, I broke my wrist diving to catch a ball on the wall.

• 12:25Fred Taylor?

  And then that, that's sort of what ended his career and sort of led him down this road. Sort of doubled down on what you were mentioning, Channing. Uh, being in the motivational space, like, what, what, what's your real purpose?

• 12:38Speaker 04

  My current mission is to serve 100 million lives weekly to help them improve the quality of their life. That's my current season mission. And I look at life as seasons. I love this show because it's about pivoting and when I pivoted from football, I didn't know what I was gonna do necessarily. I didn't know how to make money. I didn't have a college degree yet after playing arena ball. I was still hadn't graduated yet. This was 2007 when I got injured through 2000, early 9, when the economy crashed in the USA. So people, you know, who were smart weren't getting jobs, let alone guys like me who were like flunking out of college. And I was just like, you know, my dad had woken up and he was alive, but it was almost like

• 13:24Speaker 04

  he was physically here, but mentally and emotionally gone. So there was another level of trauma of just like every time I went to go see him, he'd say, "Hey, son,

• 13:38Speaker 04

  where'd you go to school again?

• 13:41Speaker 04

  What sport did you play?" I had to remind him who I was for 17 years. So it was very draining and emotionally sad because I had to grieve the loss of my father as he was alive. And that fragility of watching that and experiencing that and just living the sadness of it and hoping he was gonna get better, but he never really did. It made me really just say, "I'm going all in on what I want and if I fail, at least I did it doing what I wanted." As opposed to regretting, "Cause what if this happens to me? What if something like this happens to me?" So that became a big driver. After sports, I didn't have, I wish I had this show.

• 14:25Speaker 04

  I wish I had you guys to be like, "Hey, here's how you pivot. Here's how you like develop yourself before pivoting so that you're not in a space of two, three years of uncertainty like a lot of guys." And that's what I did. I seeked mentors right after that time. So I'm living on my sister's couch for a year and a half. Full arm cast from here to here after they did a surgery on me. They took a bone out of my hip, fused it to my wrist. I got no money. I got no college degree. I got no opportunities. And I just start saying, I need to learn from mentors. My dad was a mentor, like you mentioned, but he's not able to teach me. So how can I find local leaders?

• 15:04Speaker 04

  Executives, CEOs. I was reaching out to former athletes who started their own thing, just asking anyone questions. And that became my pivot. You know, that was my... I wish I had this podcast. It's one of the reasons why I started the School of Greatness. Because it's all the things I wish I learned growing up that school didn't teach me. That I've learned from mentors. And that's been the journey.

• 15:27Ryan Clark?

  Listening to your story, your earliest memory is being molested. You were bullied as a kid because you had a learning disorder. Then you get to college and you're trying to control these things. You don't get the All-American that you believe you deserve or that you want. You change schools. Your father is going through all of these things. You literally were dealing with a life that was out of control and not in your control. So when you've dealt with those traumas, when you've dealt with those certain losses, what were your steps to gaining control?

• 16:07Speaker 04

  Well, that from about 22 to 30, it was hyper-focus on results. That was the steps to gaining control. Let me accomplish. Let me achieve. Let me set goals and make them happen as fast as possible. And then set new goals. And I did that when it comes to sports, I became an All-American in football and the decathlon. I went to go play arena ball. In my twenties, I also joined the USA Men's National Handball Team, the Olympic Team. We didn't qualify for the Olympics, but I played for the team for nine years. And then I started doing that in business and I just said, how can I control every aspect by overworking?

• 16:50Speaker 04

  And when I hit thirty, I'm forty-one now, when I hit thirty, I had millions in the bank. You know, I had girls, I had like a personal brand, I had whatever level of success. But I felt like I was completely out of control. That was a big, kind of a wake-up call for me. Because I realized I'd been chasing so many things to try to look good, to try to please others, to try to mask the shame that I was feeling about all my deficiencies in life. And that's when I started to process the healing journey of all of it.

• 17:30Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, you, um, didn't you write down a list of things you were afraid of?

• 17:33Speaker 04

  Yes, my fear list.

• 17:34Ryan Clark?

  Right now, can you name some of those things that were on your fear list that you attacked?

• 17:39Speaker 04

  Back then, it was different things. I mean, I, I had, I had a fear of talking to girls when I was a teenager, right? So I would like try these different games to just try to speak to every girl so I wouldn't be afraid of it. But in my early twenties, I was afraid of public speaking, I was afraid of dancing in public was a fear of mine. Just kind of a tall goofy white guy, I was like, what's the scariest thing I could do? Salsa dance. And I've been salsa dancing for eighteen years now.

• 18:04Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 18:05Speaker 04

  Reading and writing aloud, I used to get terrified to read in front of a class because I would stutter and I couldn't read that well. And so I said, I need to learn how to write, so I've written three books. Like every fear that I've had, I said, I need to go all in on these fears until these fears disappear. And it is terrifying, but on the other side of it is complete power and authority of those fears not consuming me anymore. And so this is just a few of the things.

• 18:32Channing Crowder?

  Just listen to it, man, this is so intriguing.

• 18:35Speaker 04

  Were you?

• 18:37Speaker 04

  Were you chasing something? Or were you running from something? Both. I was chasing, um, approval. I was chasing community and connection. I was chasing success and money and safety. And I was running from shame, insecurity, self doubt, and a lack of emotional safety. So I left home at 13 to go to a private boarding school. I begged my parents to send me away because I didn't feel safe at home. My brother just got out of jail a year prior. But then he went on to kind of like do his thing. My parents just probably shouldn't have been together, right? And there's probably a lot of us that have like

• 19:21Speaker 04

  family dynamics, like they probably shouldn't have been together, but they stayed together. And it just didn't feel safe. I didn't feel emotionally, physically safe. So I begged them to send me away. I don't know anyone else that begged to go to a boarding school, but I was like, thank God, I'm here.

• 19:35Channing Crowder?

  I threaten my kids with that when they act bad.

• 19:37Speaker 04

  Right, exactly, exactly. But when they beg to leave, that means you gotta take a look at the mirror, right? It's like, okay, why are they asking to leave this early? So I was chasing certain things and running away from other things. And I love the analogy from the movie, the latest movie Creed. I don't know if you guys watched the last Creed, Creed 3, I think it was. Where it's like his childhood fear, right? He was running away from it. And it came back to haunt him. When he was no longer chasing after I'm the champ, I'm going after the next thing. It followed him. It caught up to him. He couldn't run away from it anymore. So he finally had to say, I have to turn around and face the demon, the darkness, the childhood, whatever. Otherwise, it's gonna eat me alive. And things ate me alive for a long time.

• 20:22Speaker 04

  And it wasn't until I turned around and faced it, around 30 years old, that it started slowly a healing journey. And it has been an 11-year. Deep healing journey that is still gonna continue. I feel the most peace I've ever had, but I also know at at different levels of relationships and success and age and our bodies, there's gonna be new levels of healing. And that's where I'm at now.

• 20:49Fred Taylor?

  You talk about the most peace you've ever had. You recently went a week without your phone.

• 20:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, a couple of weeks ago.

• 20:55Fred Taylor?

  But you're a motivational speaker. You got, you're big on social media. Like, how can you possibly do that?

• 21:00Speaker 04

  My team's still posted. So I still, you know, Alicia was asking me like, how many times do you guys record in a week? And I'm like, I was recording five or six times a week for months leading up to that to be two months ahead. So there are seasons of life where I'm gonna have to go all in and work a little harder. So I have space and time to think. And I put my phone and locked it in a safe for seven days. I did this about five or six years ago, where I went on a plane to Hawaii by myself without the phone and computer. Left it here in LA. And it was the most terrifying thing that I'd done, but the most freeing thing as well. I mean, I remember you guys grew up in the, you know, seventies, eighties, eighty-three, maybe with me. Seventy-seven, seventy-nine.

• 21:45Speaker 04

  Seventy-two. Seventy, sixty-nine.

• 21:50Speaker 04

  You got a little more grades than all of us, right? Hundred and nine. But I remember going to like and asking for directions, right? Growing up. We didn't have the cell phone to like Google Map. And I remember, I was like, oh, shoot, I have to ask for directions all over again. But it was the most, it was the coolest experience, just like being phoneless. When you're set up and prepared, I feel like we can do those things. I remember interviewing a pastor, I don't know if you guys know Mike Todd, Pastor Mike Todd. He said every month he goes on a month, he takes the month off. And he's been doing it for, I think, almost a decade. I go, a month off? And he goes, no matter what. And he was in the middle of a New York Times book launch campaign a couple of years ago when I interviewed him. And he goes,

• 22:33Speaker 04

  The week I took off my New York Times, I came off the New York Times bestseller list after like weeks being on. And I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that because I know that month away from work, from preaching, from creating, all these different things is going to give me more space, more ideas, more healing to be able to get to the next level of where I want to be. And as scary as it is to kind of pull back on things for me, I have to remind myself these things when I start to feel a little stressed out or overwhelmed for too long or a period of time. I'm like, where in my life do I need to create space? And how can I set myself up and my team up so that we don't fall behind?

• 23:13Fred Taylor?

  But you have to have those bad days.

• 23:16Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 23:16Fred Taylor?

  Like, how often do you have bad days? And like, how do you get out of those phones?

• 23:20Speaker 04

  It's rare. I was just talking about this today. Last week I had a rough week, but not as rough as it was like 10, 15 years ago weeks, right? It was a challenging week in my business where things, it didn't seem like things were working. And there were some financial challenges we were facing for about seven days. So we're still facing it. But my interpretation and my response to it is different now. Where I felt out of control last week on certain things with specific business partnerships and relationships and former employees, just kind of all happening at once, where I felt frustrated daily. And I did an interview around four or five years ago when I was going through a challenging personal time through a breakup.

• 24:03Speaker 04

  And I had a guy on named Robin Sharma. And before I had him on, I said, hey, listen, Robin, I'm going through, I'm going through it right now personally. I went through a breakup and the people are talking about me nasty online and I just feel like a lot of things are unfair. And I'm in the middle of like all this uncertainty. He said, "A bad day for the ego is a great day for the soul." And that really stuck with me then, even though I was like, yeah, but it doesn't feel good. Right. But that message has stuck with me because during that last week, and this is a week after taking seven days off of my phone, hoping that everything was gonna be good, there was a lot of breakdowns. I remember saying to myself, if I can go a year into the future, if I can go five, 10 years in the future,

• 24:48Speaker 04

  this is where the greatest lessons I'm gonna learn about myself come from in this day, this week, or this season of life with these business challenges. And the frustrations I'm feeling, I don't wanna neglect these feelings, I want to feel them. But I want to express them in a way that doesn't hurt others and myself. So I doubled down on my habits, you know, I got up earlier and worked out more. I worked out at night because I was still frustrated. I was doing sauna for 20 minutes a day. I was speaking with my fiance about this. I've got a therapist and a coach that I had a conversation with. So I'm getting it out in a healthy, conscious way. Even if I say things here and there that I'm like, I probably shouldn't have said that to the person. Yeah.

• 25:29Speaker 04

  But I'm doing my best to not bypass the emotions and act like, oh, everything's gonna be okay. And also know, this is where my greatest growth is for the next level of me, right? It's kind of a balance of feeling the frustration and the pain and not just be like, everything's perfect and I'm good and like, it's all gonna be fine, but this kinda sucks and this is pretty shitty right now. And I know it's gonna be okay, like I'm gonna survive and everything's gonna be better. But I gotta be in it and I gotta process it and I gotta see how I can improve in this process.

• 26:02Ryan Clark?

  Louis, you're talking about breakup. This isn't the breakup you moved across country for.

• 26:07Speaker 04

  No, that was, that was 11 years ago.

• 26:09Ryan Clark?

  Can you, can, explain,

• 26:13Ryan Clark?

  explain to me how you got it so wrong, right? Because if you're-

• 26:18Speaker 04

  He was chasing a bad one?

• 26:19Ryan Clark?

  If you're, if you're, well, she had to be, because if you, if you're gonna move across country-

• 26:25Speaker 04

  New York to LA.

• 26:26Ryan Clark?

  For a woman.

• 26:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 26:27Ryan Clark?

  You should probably be sure that she wants you to move across country. So please explain to me how you land-

• 26:37Speaker 04

  Oh, man.

• 26:37Ryan Clark?

  And then she suddenly realizes she ain't want you to get on the plane in the first place.

• 26:41Speaker 04

  I'm starting to sweat now. When we are wounded and we make decisions based out of a wound. Usually, good things don't happen after that. Yep. I was very wounded in relationships. I didn't have a model of a good relationship with my parents. And therefore, I was just repeating patterns of a behavior that I was witnessing. Without being conscious or aware of it. And I was very driven, in my mid twenties, by, you know, desire. Let's call it, you know. Male desire. You know what I mean? Yeah. We had Nick Cannon on recently. Oh, yeah, yeah. He has male desire as well. He's still got it. Yeah, yeah, he's still got it.

• 27:20Channing Crowder?

  What's that talking about?

• 27:22Channing Crowder?

  Knocking down something?

• 27:26Channing Crowder?

  I'm sorry, yeah, I got secret words.

• 27:29Speaker 04

  I was dating her kind of like, long distance for about six months. She had just moved to LA, I was in New York. And it was going great, and she was like, listen, I just wanna, I don't wanna do long distance anymore. I wanna have you in LA. I want your stuff here. Then it makes sense to me. I go, I can travel, I can come back and forth. But she was like, hey, if you can't be here, like, I don't know if we're able to make it work long term. And I said, you know what? I'm gonna give this a shot. I'm gonna, I'm gonna move. I'm gonna give it a shot and see how it goes. I got out of my lease in New York. I had a couple suitcases, a laptop and a guitar. I get on a plane to LA. She picks me up at the airport, within an hour, she breaks up with me. Holy shit. And I remember thinking, I got no place to stay in LA.

• 28:13Speaker 04

  I got no place to go back to, to New York, at the time, this is 11 years ago, 12 years ago. And I'm thinking to myself, what did I just do? I promised myself I would never move for a girl. And I just did it, and now I know why, I should have never done this. We got back together like, the next day, she was like, I was just scared, you know, this and that. And it was an up and down roller coaster for six to 12 months. Now, when you're living in a wound, and you want to chase approval. And you wanna people please, because you're wounded. I was just trying to do whatever I could to make the relationship work. As athletes, I don't know if you guys have this mindset as an athlete. What can I do to get the job done? I have a goal, I'm gonna work as hard as I can to make that goal happen. I applied that to everything in life, especially relationships.

• 28:58Speaker 04

  Okay, you don't like this about me, let me change it. You want me to do something different? Let me make sure I do it different so you're happy. That became my script in multiple relationships. Until, I turned around and started facing the demons in me. And asked, why am I the common denominator of all these relationships that I'm in? Where I'm... The one asking us to go to couples therapy.

• 29:21Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 29:22Speaker 04

  And they don't want to go. Where I'm the one changing who I am to try to make them happy, but they don't want to find a way to meet me in the middle. Why am I repeating this pattern? And so it wasn't until I turned around and looked at the wounds within me as a wounded boy, as a five, seven, 12 year old, where I started to say, how can I heal and mend the relationship with the wounded little me? Which may sound a little weird.

• 29:47Ryan Clark?

  No.

• 29:48Speaker 04

  But for a year and a half, I had a photo of my five year old self as my screensaver on my phone. And I would speak to him. And I would say, what is it you need in this moment? How can I as an adult be there for you in this moment? How can I make you feel emotionally safe? How can I make you feel more sacred? And again, these conversations, I didn't learn how to have these conversations growing up. If someone would have told me this as a teenager, I'd have been like, you're freaking stupid. What are you talking about? This is weird. Why do you even have this conversation? Your wounded little boy self, it didn't make sense. But as an adult, it started to make a lot of sense. That there are parts of us that have not healed. And when I have started to do that work, I have found more peace inside of me.

• 30:33Ryan Clark?

  But in speaking of the way you approach romantic relationships, being the one that wanted to go to couples therapy, being the one that's willing to adjust. And I want to be clear, I'm not talking about man and woman when I say feminine and masculine energy. But a lot of times in a relationship, it's a more feminine energy to want some of the things

• 30:52Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 30:53Ryan Clark?

  that you wanted in relationships when you said you were wounded. And now you move forward to that and you write a book about masculinity and being able to be vulnerable

• 31:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 31:05Ryan Clark?

  in your masculinity. How did you have to use some of those experiences, some of those conversations with that five year old boy to pour into that book to allow other men to tap into some of those things?

• 31:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, I just, as I started my healing journey, I realized, oh, I did a podcast. A year after I started my show, I did an interview where I opened up about being sexually abused for the first time publicly. I had done it, you know, in close circles, friends, family, therapy. And I felt incredible freedom by having the conversation about sexual abuse.

• 31:43Speaker 04

  And for whatever reason, I felt like I was still a liar and a fraud. Because my community at that time didn't know this. I was opening up about other things. But I wouldn't open up about this. And I, and I just want to preface this and say, I don't think everyone should announce to their social media audiences, all their traumas and wounds. I don't think that's the right thing. But I felt called that I needed to do that at that season of my life. I was being a guinea pig and sharing things on my show. And when I posted that, I thought my career was over. I posted it at around midnight. And I thought, my podcast is done, my business is over, everyone's gonna unfollow me.

• 32:24Speaker 04

  Because at that time, I had never seen any male open up on social media about sexual abuse. I just hadn't seen it. Maybe it was out there, but I wasn't aware of it because I was blocking it. But I hadn't seen a lot of men, especially former athletes, talk about sexual trauma. And I just thought, my life is over, everything. And I was shocked of what I experienced for the next few weeks. It felt like an emo- I'd never been drunk or high in my life, still to this day. But it felt like this massive emotional hangover for weeks. Not in me putting it out there and talking about it.

• 33:06Speaker 04

  But in the hundreds of essays I got from men that emailed me, opening up for the first time about them being sexually abused when they were younger. And that was when something unlocked inside of me. I was like, oh, this isn't just me. This is a bigger thing. And maybe this has something to do with men hurting women. Maybe this has something to do with men not being available for their kids. Maybe this has something to do with men being a certain way in business. Maybe this has a certain way with men harming others and starting wars and causing fights and anger and aggression in society. I'm not saying it has everything, but maybe it has something to do with it.

• 33:48Speaker 04

  And it became a journey of me to, to start researching and understanding more from experts about. Masculinity.

• 33:56Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 33:57Speaker 04

  About myself, about other men, about society, about being growing up in the eighties, about how you couldn't talk about these things, why we couldn't talk about these things, and how to step into all of me as an adult, instead of only show people a part of me. And that became a journey of writing The Mask of Masculinity and kind of uncovering how I can be a better man, how men can learn more about their wounds and their demons, and just be better in their families and societies.

• 34:30Channing Crowder?

  Why would I, because I have a 12-year-old, about to be 13 in a couple of months. Just to that point, what would you, what advice would you give me about raising a young man? Because I was the dude that toughened up, I say it to this day, I tell my sons to tighten up. "Huh huh." I say, "What's your last name?" "Crowder." "What does that mean?" "Tough." "Are you acting tough?" "No." And they run off. And like, just hearing you talk, like, what, like, how, like, what, how should I change that?

• 35:00Speaker 04

  I'm not a father yet, you guys are all fathers, right? Yeah, I'm not a father, so I won't speak into what I think a father should do, but I will speak into what I would want as a child, and what I think I'm gonna do my best to do as a father when I'm a father, hopefully, in the next couple of years. All of us became successful based on what happened to us, the negative and the good from our parents, or lack of parenting, right? Like, your father probably was like, "You need to be tough."

• 35:28Channing Crowder?

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:29Speaker 04

  "Suck it up."

• 35:30Channing Crowder?

  Yes.

• 35:30Speaker 04

  "Don't be a little bitch." "Stop whining and complaining."

• 35:33Channing Crowder?

  All those phrases.

• 35:34Speaker 04

  "Why are you complaining?"

• 35:36Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 35:37Speaker 04

  "Why are you whining?"

• 35:38Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 35:38Speaker 04

  "You think that's gonna get you to the league? You think that's gonna get you to the scholarship?"

• 35:41Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 35:42Speaker 04

  You know, you gotta be tougher. And I Thrived off of structure and kind of that tough mentality. But there's also a soft little boy inside of me when I was 12, 13, 18, 25, 41. That wants to be acknowledged and seen for my fears and uncertainties as well. And someone watching or listening to this might say, what a little bitch. They still might be thinking that, and that's fine. But I think, as Ryan was saying, you know, there are feminine masculine qualities within all of us. Men and women. And just because a profession were meant to be more tough. And killers in football. Um, doesn't mean you have to flip the switch. You have to pivot after practice.

• 36:27Speaker 04

  You can't bring that rage into the street, in the car, with your kids, with your girlfriend, your wife, your family. And that's probably one of the toughest things that I face with. I was talking about this earlier with a comedian. Sebastian, who is, you know, a big comedian and, uh, sold out Madison Square Garden four times. And he was like, my, I get paid to be negative. To think about things in society and speak about them in funny ways. So I'm always thinking in the negative terms. And I go, it's the same thing with an athlete in football. We were paid to be killers essentially in the football field. And inflict as much pain as possible, at least that's how I was trained. Yeah.

• 37:06Speaker 04

  And not to, uh, excuse behaviors and actions of athletes. Who do bad things outside of practice. We weren't taught how to pivot after practice and be more emotional, more loving, more peaceful, more harmonious. It's really hard after three hours of being screamed at, being punched in the back of the head by your coach. Throwing a whistle in your head, whatever might be, and degraded in front of a hundred other guys. Say toughen up, catch the ball. Why are you dropping the ball? Are you an idiot? Are you stupid? Go run another lap. It's tough to, three hours later, be zen. We're not taught to pivot. And so this is why I think it's so important what you guys are doing, not just for the older

• 37:49Speaker 04

  generation, but I hope younger athletes are watching this show as well because it's just so confused, life is just confusing as a teenager. It's confusing. But at the end of the day, we all want to be acknowledged and seen for all the parts of us, not just the best of us, or not just the worst of us. We want to be seen and acknowledged, and most of us were probably driven to succeed to get some type of validation.

• 38:14Speaker 00

  Are your ad campaigns lighting up the dashboard, but not the pipeline? That's bullspend, and marketers are calling it out in. Dashboard Confessions.

• 38:24Speaker 01

  My boss asked for results, so I opened my dashboard for the only positive sounding metric I had: impressions.

• 38:31Speaker 00

  Cut the bullspend. See revenue, not just reach. LinkedIn delivers the highest return on ad spend of major ad networks. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit. Go to LinkedIn.com/campaign. Terms and conditions apply.

• 38:45Fred Taylor?

  It seems that you're recycling and repurposing all the things that you've encountered or have gone through in your life, and it's, it's, it seems like it's a form of therapy for you.

• 38:57Speaker 04

  Uh huh.

• 38:58Fred Taylor?

  That, that's kind of what I get from it. Am I far off?

• 39:01Speaker 04

  No, it is. Yeah, it's why I talk about it all the time. Yeah, it is therapy. And I think, speaking back to the, you know, men and masculinity, I don't think a lot of men are willing to do this, whether it's filmed or unfilmed. Yeah, true. I, I went on a tour after I wrote this book. It was 2017, 2018 when this book came out. It was probably the, I thought it was the best timing because it was right when Me Too happened, but no one wanted to read about, you know, masculinity from, from a book that I'd wrote, interviewing therapists. It was all about therapists that I'd interviewed, but it was just the wrong time and it came out. But I did a book tour, and I would go to these, you know, I don't know, 500 people would show up to a, a book reading, right? And it'd be about half the room men and half the room women. And I would always ask this question.

• 39:44Speaker 04

  Raise your hand for the women in the room, raise your hand. If you talk about your challenges. Once a week with your girlfriends or your mom or your sisters, your aunts. Once a week about your insecurities, your challenges, your fears, your doubts. Your body image, whatever it might be, anything going on with you, if you talk to. Other women at least once a week, raise your hand. Almost every woman raised their hand. I don't know if the, you know, ladies in here, Alicia, you could raise your hand too. And, and I go, keep your hands up if you do this every day. And they're all kind of like laughing like, yeah, I'm on my phone with my mom or my sister or my girlfriend. Like I'm chatting about it over lunch, whatever it might be, right? And I go for the guys in the room, raise your hand if once a month. You get together with one guy, one man, and you talk about your vulnerabilities.

• 40:30Speaker 04

  You talk about your insecurities. The, the things you don't like about your body. The, the fears, the doubts. How you're not good enough. Raise your hand. Out of hundreds of men, maybe two, and I'd always kind of joke, are you guys part of like a church group? That is required to meet, you know, once a month? And they're kind of like, yeah, we are a church group, you know, it's like where there's like a hundred men and we kind of talk about it. And I go, ladies. Imagine a world where you never talked about. Your insecurities, your doubts, your fears. Any of these things, imagine a world.

• 41:05Speaker 04

  Not once a month, you got to do it, or these guys don't do it most of their lives. Imagine a world, what would that feel like? Women would reply and they said. I'd go crazy. I'd go insane, I'd probably kill myself. That's what women would say to me, I probably, there's no way I could do it. I couldn't not express the things that I'm going through with someone. And I go, I'm not condoning the behaviors of men who do bad things in the world. But imagine the anger, the pain, the shame. That they're carrying. If they don't have a safe environment to speak about certain things. Just imagine, I'm not accepting bad behavior. But imagine how you would feel. And it's time we all create a safe environment for men to open up.

• 41:48Speaker 04

  And I think that's why I think it's so cool what you guys are doing. As a brotherhood, as a family, as a, you know, as brothers to talk about these things because. I just think culture and society, we've got to be having more of these therapeutic conversations. For sure.

• 42:02Ryan Clark?

  This is a lot to unpack. This is deep. You have now worked through a lot of those things, but you said it's a continual evolution.

• 42:11Speaker 04

  It's a journey.

• 42:12Ryan Clark?

  Of some sort, right? But you recently posted three years with Martha and you're engaged now.

• 42:19Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 42:20Ryan Clark?

  Talk about whether it's a courage, a bravery, or just the true finding yourself and finding yourself in someone that allowed a man who has been through what you've been through, who has had to transform the way you have to get on one knee in front of people and profess your love for this person. And the simple caption was, she said yes. What was that like for you?

• 42:48Speaker 04

  You know, people would always ask me, like, do you want to be a father one day? And I never, I felt like the answer, I was supposed to say yes, but I was afraid to. Because I was always afraid of marrying someone that I couldn't trust. And if I ever died or got divorced, I didn't know if they'd be able to take care of my kids. That was kind of the unconscious fear. Now, I'm not saying I was like the best person also in my twenties or whatever. I wasn't like ready. But when I was in relationships with women before, I was always afraid, like, what if this doesn't work out? And they take my kids and they make my life hell. Again, I just witnessed my parents go through a lot of stress and I didn't want to recreate that. So I was afraid of stepping into that.

• 43:34Speaker 04

  And I was afraid that if I don't heal myself, or at least be on a journey of healing, and if I can't be 100% authentic to who I am in relationship and intimacy with someone else, then I'm not going to feel safe to get engaged, to get married and have kids. And I remember before I got in a committed relationship with Martha, we were dating for a number of months. I asked her a number of questions before getting committed, which allowed me to feel completely safe and feel like she could be the right person for me. Whether we never worked out, if we had kids and we've never worked out, or we got divorced for whatever reason, or if I died.

• 44:18Speaker 04

  You know, if I went to the worst-case scenarios, I felt emotionally safe with her. One of the things was, can we start the relationship in therapy?

• 44:29Speaker 04

  Are you open to that? Because every relationship I'd been in before ended me asking them, can we go to therapy to try to fix this? I want to try to make this work. What can we do? I'll do, I'll do whatever. And all the previous relationships, they just didn't want to do it. They didn't want to go to therapy. And I remember just saying like, if I, I cannot be in a relationship with someone who does not want to at least try to grow. So growth and both individually and together, growing needs to be a priority for me. And she was like, yeah, let's go to therapy right away, like from the beginning. There was no problems, but I was just like, I want to be able to talk openly and not be made wrong. Second thing was, if we get into this relationship, I'm going to commit to you that I'm going to fully accept who you are,

• 45:12Speaker 04

  all of your past and the decisions you make. I may not like things, but I'm going to choose to accept you and not try to change you. Because I know you have a growth mindset, so you're going to be constantly evolving. But in return, my only request is that you accept me for all my past, which was a lot of shame. So I'm going to share more of my stuff, but you've got to accept me. And you can't try to change me moving forward. I am going to be on a journey of growth. This is what I do, right? I'm constantly in the conversation. I have coaches. I have mentors. I go to therapy. I'm on a journey. You have to trust the journey and accept who I am now. You can give me feedback and coach me and things like that. I'll, I'll be open.

• 45:55Speaker 04

  But you can't be mad at me for who I am as at my core. Because that's what I experienced in my past.

• 46:02Channing Crowder?

  But, but is it, is it? Just listen to, it makes a lot of sense, I would say. Um.

• 46:10Channing Crowder?

  The thought of it makes a lot of sense.

• 46:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 46:12Channing Crowder?

  But then you're bringing dozens of people into your emotional relationship. And like you're saying with the therapist, with the different people, with everything, doesn't that add more pressure on your relationship?

• 46:25Speaker 04

  Doing couples therapy?

• 46:26Channing Crowder?

  Just the therapy, which like you're saying, like the openness is like, okay, it's cool because the conversations you're talking about having is what me and I've been married 13 years, together 15, but those are the, the arguments we have.

• 46:40Speaker 04

  Uh huh.

• 46:40Channing Crowder?

  But you don't want to bring anybody else into that. So now from day one, bringing a number of people into y'all's bedroom talks, doesn't that add way more pressure on the relationship?

• 46:52Speaker 04

  Not doing it caused more pain for five relationships before. Waiting until problems and arguments arise. And us being at breaking points and trying to do therapy in previous relationships. It didn't work doing it that way. So I said to myself, as a 38 year old at that time, I'm 41 now. I was like, I need to do everything differently in terms of entering this relationship. Couple of things we did, we didn't sleep together for three months. For me, that never happened before, right? And we, I was like, I'm, until I'm committed to this person, I'm not going there sexually. I also said, we need to do couples therapy together. So I'd never done that before. I didn't know if it was gonna work. I was like, maybe it doesn't work.

• 47:37Speaker 04

  But I will find out if we're in alignment pretty fast. I'll find out if we can create agreements pretty quickly or if we're out of agreement. And if we can't, then we're going to argue and I'll realize maybe this isn't the right fit. And I think arguments stem from a lack of agreements or upholding those agreements and being out of alignment on certain things. It doesn't mean it's a bad relationship or something's wrong or it's not gonna work. I watched arguments every week as a kid and it's exhausting for me. I'm not saying you guys do this in front of your kids or whatever, but I just knew that I don't want to create a life or a relationship or a marriage, living in that environment for me.

• 48:21Speaker 04

  And if I'm gonna put my life in someone's hands intimately with one relationship, there needs to be harmonious alignment. If we create agreements from the beginning and we get to know each other and learn about all of our shames and insecurities and faults and you know, we're both imperfect. But if we can accept who each one of us are and say, I see the beauty and the love in you no matter what.

• 48:47Speaker 04

  And you with me. And if we can create agreements on all the little things that cause disturbances in our life and our relationship, because there's friction, right? If we can create agreements, now there's alignment, there's harmony. And we had disagreements early on and we would go to the therapist and say, here's what we're struggling with. And she would work us through each individually of why we're reacting in a certain way. Because when I react, it has nothing to do with her. It has to do everything with how I'm responding to an emotional wound from a previous event that makes me feel unsafe. So I have to look within and say, why is this making me feel unsafe? Why am I frustrated with her that she did this? Once we create agreements together and we say, I agree, both of us.

• 49:30Speaker 04

  Now, as long as we honor those things, we shouldn't be upset when they do that thing. Because we're in agreement now. Understand each other. Like she used to, I don't know about you guys, but she used to want to always speak to me at like 1 a.m. About something that happened from the day that was kind of like, it's uncomfortable, right? Some conversation that's not light. My thing is always, you've been with me all day and you wait till I'm ready to go to sleep. Exactly, man. To bring it up? No, exactly. And this what happened the first like six to nine months where it was like, and then we're up till 4 a.m. and I want to be a present, like loving, vulnerable man. So I'm like, okay, let's turn on the lights and I'm like, all right, I'm here for you, but I'm really not there. Mentally, I'm asleep, but I'm trying to be present and I'm not. And I said, listen, one of our agreements needs to be no tough conversations after 8 p.m.

• 50:16Speaker 04

  It doesn't work for me. Like, you can talk to me as much as you want during the day. Ask me anything. We can be as vulnerable, honest, uncomfortable as you want. Like, I'll go there. I may not enjoy it, but I'll do it. But once we're in bed and I head here to the pillow, you cannot do this. And she said, okay, I understand now. And I know it's because you want to be the best you can be for me. And it's that you don't want to not listen to me, but you want to be present with me. Then we create an agreement and she hasn't done it since. And we have harmony because we have agreements. So every time there's friction, we create agreements to create more harmony.

• 50:51Fred Taylor?

  That's part of the reason she said yes.

• 50:53Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 50:53Fred Taylor?

  You know, being able to talk to you. She said, well, I could talk to Louis at any time I want.

• 50:58Speaker 04

  Exactly, yeah.

• 50:58Fred Taylor?

  So it made it easier. But you took, as RC was saying, you took a huge leap of faith some years ago. And that didn't work out. Getting engaged is a big step.

• 51:08Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 51:09Fred Taylor?

  But the bigger step, obviously, we all know what that is. And that's a bigger leap of faith.

• 51:15Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 51:16Fred Taylor?

  Like, you ready for that? Are you ready for that?

• 51:19Speaker 04

  I feel ready. I mean, you guys got to give me advice. I don't know. You guys have the experience. I feel ready because I've been putting in the work to continue to heal and grow as a man. And I feel emotionally safe with her. And if I didn't feel emotionally safe, I wouldn't feel ready. But it's because she is so loving, so generous, so peaceful as well. I feel emotionally safe.

• 51:47Fred Taylor?

  You got dates lined up already?

• 51:50Speaker 04

  We're looking at like February. We don't have like an actual date yet, but it's like, yeah, hopefully soon. And then hopefully kids soon after. I want to have kids. I want to have twins.

• 51:58Fred Taylor?

  Is it the 14th or something like that? Would it be like a Valentine's Day?

• 52:02Speaker 04

  No, it'd be before then, yeah.

• 52:03Fred Taylor?

  Okay.

• 52:04Speaker 04

  Before then.

• 52:04Ryan Clark?

  I love the message. It sends that you worked that way with your fiancee in a sense because it's, we're going to be proactive, not reactive.

• 52:14Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 52:15Ryan Clark?

  We're going, you know, we're going to have the conversations in the present time. And I think a lot of the difficulty when you do choose to do counseling late, I think that's when you feel like you're letting people in on your business because by that time it's ugly. Like if we didn't decide to do it before, if it wasn't part of the upkeep of our relationship, if we've gotten to the point to where I'm like, hey, we need to go to therapy, or if she's like, hey, we need to go to therapy. There's so much ugly that has gone on between both of us. There's almost a shame and an embarrassment in talking about it. Whereas if we're talking about the fact that babe, look, you gotta lay this on me before eight o'clock.

• 52:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:59Ryan Clark?

  We get to know now, we get to agree now, and there's a level of honesty that you can have in the moment that when you go back and retrospect, those wounds are scabbed over and so deep that it's difficult. And so like, just you even saying that though, just made, it made so much sense to me, but culturally, it's different for us, right? Like, I grew up, like, my household, and I don't know about theirs, my household was, you don't tell people what happens in this house. And I think a lot of that has leaked over into therapy for me. Because it was, you know, what goes on in this house is nobody's business. And I felt like it was always hard as I got older.

• 53:39Speaker 04

  Have you done therapy before?

• 53:40Ryan Clark?

  I have now. I have now, but that was part of me having to get over that upbringing.

• 53:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'll learn it.

• 53:46Ryan Clark?

  You know, you said, you talked about your parents arguing. My parents just found a way to get through everything. And so I thought that was the way. How did you unlearn some of the things that became a part of you because of your experiences?

• 54:05Speaker 04

  Pain, like extreme pain. You know, again, I was 29. I had started making millions in business from a business I'd built after football, online marketing company I'd built. I had like a level of success and personal brand and following or whatever it might be. I thought I had a relationship. But all my relationships started to fall apart, kind of in the same season of life. And I started to, you know, I don't know about a mile away from here, I'd gotten a lot of fights on the basketball court. Just playing pickup basketball. And uh.

• 54:41Ryan Clark?

  Sounds like me.

• 54:41Speaker 04

  I don't know, but I mean, like, I would take stuff so personally.

• 54:44Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 54:45Speaker 04

  And pick up basketball with no stakes on the line with a bunch of bumps. You know, just like trying to step to me and like call me names and I would be like, what? You know, it's like the rage and the anger from nothing would come out of me. And I remember my best friend was with me and kind of like everything was going bad in my life. Like it seemed like it was going good on the outside, but internally it was going wrong. And I got in a fistfight out here. And I remember going back to my apartment and looking myself in the mirror and just like shaking, like shaking. Cause I was like, I couldn't recognize myself in the mirror and I was like, who are you? I was staring at myself in the mirror and I kept saying over and over again, who are you? Who are you? What are you doing? How did it get to this?

• 55:31Speaker 04

  And I remember my friend who was with me told me later, he was like, if you're gonna keep acting like this. Cause it was a series of events of me reacting and shoving and screaming at guys. And then it became physical like months later. He was like, I don't wanna hang out with you anymore if you're gonna be like this. Like it's not fun. When we go play pickup basketball, we're supposed to have fun.

• 55:50Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 55:50Speaker 04

  And you take everything personally. And you're like trying to step to everyone who says like your mama, you know, or whatever they say, you know, it's like.

• 55:57Ryan Clark?

  That's actually a reason to fight though.

• 55:59Speaker 04

  Right, right. Or whatever, any silly like street talk, like whatever, just like talking smack to me, these guys, I don't know these guys.

• 56:07Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 56:07Speaker 04

  But they're not fricking, it's not like fricking, they don't have guns. We're just playing pickup basketball in Beverly Hills. You know what I mean? It's like, why am I getting so angry? And I felt under attack in almost every situation in life.

• 56:23Speaker 04

  And that's when I said, oh, here's a wake up call. So things getting really bad in my business partnership, in my intimate relationship, and my best friend saying he doesn't want to hang out with me if I'm acting this way. I said, I need to look within, something's off. Something's off, I'm the common denominator, I'm the one at fault. What can I do?

• 56:45Ryan Clark?

  Louis, do you realize how bougie that statement is, though? I was playing pickup basketball in Beverly Hills.

• 56:51Speaker 04

  Well, it's technically West Hollywood.

• 56:53Ryan Clark?

  You know, so, but that brings me, that brings me to friendships, right?

• 56:56Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 56:56Ryan Clark?

  So you have a friendship with Jay Shetty, right? And Alicia, right, who connected us with you, loves Jay Shetty.

• 57:04Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 57:04Ryan Clark?

  And it's very often, we'll speak and she'll tell me, well, Jay Shetty said this. And I'll be like, well, Alicia, I told you that like last week. Right? Or she'll say something else and I'll be like, no, I just said that on the show. But because it's Jay Shetty and he wants you to think like a monk and all this stuff, he's smarter than me, right? So what happened was, I just started calling myself the Black Monk.

• 57:25Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 57:26Ryan Clark?

  Right? Because I felt like if I was monkish, people would listen to me more. Now, what I've realized from following Jay Shetty's Instagram, is he looks at my Instagram too, right? Yeah, because he started doing photo shoots and...

• 57:39Speaker 04

  He looks fly like you now, right?

• 57:40Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, he's wearing suits and all that. So I need you to get a message to him.

• 57:43Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 57:43Ryan Clark?

  That if he wants to continue to emulate the things that I do, that we need to get on tour together in some way, and we're going to do Jay Shetty and the Black Monk.

• 57:54Speaker 04

  Ooh, I like that.

• 57:54Ryan Clark?

  I think that, you know, we can...

• 57:56Speaker 04

  Not Jay Shetty and the Pivot? And maybe even Louis?

• 58:01Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, but it's...

• 58:01Speaker 04

  We could do a big thing, right?

• 58:03Ryan Clark?

  No doubt. I just want to be the Black Monk, because I feel like people will listen to me. Like, y'all should call me that as well.

• 58:08Speaker 04

  The Black Monk?

• 58:09Ryan Clark?

  The Black Monk. I think it's a beautiful name.

• 58:11Speaker 04

  It's not.

• 58:12Ryan Clark?

  It's kind. You don't like it?

• 58:13Speaker 04

  That's garbage. You're the best dressed one out of the group?

• 58:17Ryan Clark?

  Yeah. Oh, I'm worst. That's give a T. Yeah, it depends, it depends on what's going on. Freddie T. could dress too. But I do mention that because you mentioned friendships.

• 58:25Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 58:26Ryan Clark?

  How important are...

• 58:30Ryan Clark?

  Friendships that hold you accountable. Not the friendships like how you said your best friend came to you and said, "Look, Louis, if this is how you're going to behave, I can't hang with you."

• 58:39Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 58:39Ryan Clark?

  And so many times, those friendships are important to us. Those are the people that we felt accepted us the way that we are. And if they can't accept us in behaving a certain way, that's a major issue. How important have sort of friendships that have sown into your life been into your progression?

• 58:58Speaker 04

  I think they're key, and I think I got really hurt five, six years ago when I went through a breakup. And the person I was dating just kind of went online and talked a lot of nasty stuff about me that I started to learn about who my friends were. And I got really hurt because I wanted to be friends with everyone for most of my life because I didn't have friends growing up. That when people started to speak badly about me, I was like, "Oh, I thought we were friends, but we're actually not." So I would get hurt by that. And I started to realize, okay, let me have really strong, less friends and not worry about what the crowd thinks as much. As long as I have quality people that hold me high, that continue to call me out on stuff that I'm going to be imperfect on constantly,

• 59:42Speaker 04

  and are true. Like Jay, like we meet almost every week, you know? And it's like, we talk about, we have a series on our shows called Awkward Therapy, where we talk about all this stuff that we'll speak for five hours just like this, me and him calling each other out on our crap. In a positive way, right? But I'm, we're in discussing life and everything. And we're like, we should record these and put them out there. And so we do some of it. Some of those we probably can't talk about. That's why we only record some, certain things. But having someone like that and having other, I've got a few really quality guy friends that I speak to on a regular basis. Where we, that's all we do is talk about this stuff. There's no surface. It's all deep. We play and have fun too, but it's like, we've got to be willing to call each other out on our crap.

• 1:00:27Ryan Clark?

  As some venture in life.

• 1:00:30Channing Crowder?

  You stop with the, I don't wanna say stop with the masculinity, but put the ego out the door. And like figured out what was gonna go, what was the hardest part of that? Of that transition to where you are now, cuz it seems like there's dudes that, like you just said, some people can call you a bitch. Some people gonna say, when you say different things, be like that, and I know my, I know personal friends of mine that if I say, you know, we're talking, they gonna be like, man, you started that bitch shit again, like that. You know what I'm saying? Like, what was the hardest part of where you are now?

• 1:01:02Speaker 04

  Growing up extremely competitive with the desire to look good, win, and be right. I've had to learn to let that go in certain ways. Now, it doesn't mean I don't like winning, I love to win, I'm still competitive. But it's learning how to be collaborative and not ego-driven. It's learning how to win while others win also. And it's learning how to be misunderstood and still love and accept myself and not have to explain myself. That has been the biggest challenge. And I think true masculinity is letting go of ego. Now, listen, if we go out in this, you know, down the street and someone starts yelling at me and attacking me,

• 1:01:47Speaker 04

  I don't know if I'm gonna wanna fight that person or not. Like, I don't know if the ego's gonna come out of me or a higher self is gonna come out of me in that moment. I'm training myself more and more to be the higher version of me in those times of stress and chaos. That's the goal, is to walk away, disarm, diffuse, that's the greatest goal. But you just never know where you're at. I might be reactive one day and feel the wound inside of me and someone poke a wound and say, let's go. You know, it's like, I hope I never get there again. But I think true masculinity is letting go of ego and saying, what would my highest self do in this moment? And how can I bring harmony and peace? Now, it doesn't mean we're always gonna do that, but I think that's the vision.

• 1:02:33Fred Taylor?

  You've had a ton of great conversations with your guests on your podcast, School of Greatness. Do you have a favorite, favorite guest, a favorite discussion? Or is it just too many?

• 1:02:45Speaker 04

  It's, it's hard to say favorite, but every time someone asks me this, I think of Kobe. I had Kobe on and

• 1:02:52Ryan Clark?

  Episode 691.

• 1:02:53Speaker 04

  There you go. Yeah, Kobe. And for me, it was, uh, there was different pivotal moments for me over the last 11 years. Now, I didn't have the, the good looks like you guys. I didn't have the fame, the success, you know, the money, the platform. I wish I had those things. I just started like a little podcast before people knew what podcasting was. And every day I would just promote it to like as many people as I could. And I remember getting Tony Robbins on a few years in. It was like a big milestone moment for me to get like a big guest that I looked up to since I was a teenager, right? I remember these kind of different moments of getting bigger athletes. But when I got Kobe, I was like, this is a moment for me. It was like a big moment for me, right?

• 1:03:39Speaker 04

  And it was, I think it was 2018, 2017. And I remember I booked him the day before the interview happened. Like someone on my team got a call from his publicist because he was launching a podcast called The Punies, which is a podcast for kids, kind of personal development for kids, storytelling. On my team, he goes, hey, I'm on the phone with them.

• 1:04:02Speaker 04

  Kobe's available like for 20 minutes, like 30 days away, like this date. And I go, do not get off the phone until you get an interview tomorrow. Like I'll go anywhere he's at. I know he was in SoCal. I'll go, I'll drive wherever he is. We'll set up anytime tomorrow. Cause if we try to book this a month out, it's getting rescheduled. You guys know. I mean, everyone who Alicia books, they show up because they know how powerful she is and they know the power of your guys' platform. But for me, you know, in Hollywood, early on, I didn't have the biggest platform. People would reschedule, cancel. You know, I've

• 1:04:35Ryan Clark?

  We get that, yeah.

• 1:04:36Speaker 04

  You get that sometimes? I mean, I had Tom Brady booked with a flight booked and they had to cancel it. And I've been trying to reschedule for seven years. So I know what this is like. You guys had him on last month. So I remember thinking to myself, okay, I got, I go, do not get off the phone until this happens. They call me back in like 20 minutes like, okay, you know, 8 a.m. Orange County at his office tomorrow. It's in. You got 20 minutes, right?

• 1:04:59Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 1:04:59Speaker 04

  And I'm thinking, great. Now I gotta prepare. You know, it's like, now you book it. Now I gotta, don't blow it. And I remember doing the interview. And it's still, here's why it was special. The interview was awesome. But it was the moments before the interview that was really special. And I got there about two and a half hours early to set up. Cause I wanted to scout it out. I wanted to make sure I was prepared. Cameras, lights, all that stuff. I have one person on my team, right? And we brought three cameras. We set it up. And I get there. The assistant like unlocks the door. Lights are off. Turns the lights on. We walk around the office. She's like, okay, here's a place in the room where we typically would like film stuff. I didn't like it.

• 1:05:43Speaker 04

  I was like, can I see the rest of the office? So I'm walking through his office. And there's a big opening when you walk in, but then there's like a hallway with windows, with conference rooms and offices as you walk down a long hall into another big room. And so we walked down this kind of like glass hallway into a bigger room. It didn't look good. I go, let's walk back. So we walked back. The last door, glass door on the left. I see a shadow in the background, all the way in the back of the office. Just kind of a shadow like this, the backside of like a man, just looking like this. But I saw the back of it with his hands up, looking at the ceiling. And the computer was off. There was no phone on it. And I just saw a quick glance as I walked through and I talked to the assistant.

• 1:06:27Speaker 04

  I go, who is that? She goes, oh, that's Kobe. And this is like 6:30 a.m., right? And I go, he's in here right now? Like the lights were off in the whole office. And she goes, yeah. And he was with his daughter working out this morning before here. He's almost always the first person in the office. And I go, what? Now, he had just won an Oscar like a few months prior. Five time NBA champion, like the greatest of all time, all these different things. Debatable, I guess with Jordan, but like. This is Kobe Bryant we're talking about. It's 6:30 a.m. He's in the office by himself. And I go, "What's he doing?" She said, "Dreaming." Preparing. Like visualizing for the day. He's got a big day today.

• 1:07:13Speaker 04

  Uh, you're his first interview and he's got interviews back to back all day. Lil Wayne was there after me with his production company. Right. So it was like a back to back thing happening the whole day. And he goes, and she was like, he's almost always the first one in.

• 1:07:30Speaker 04

  And that's after he's training his daughter at the gym. And I go, "Man," I get chills thinking about it because I'm like, "I don't do that. I'm not the first one in my office every day." You know, I try to get up early and work out, but I'm not also at the office before everyone else. I'm like, "Man, this guy has nothing to prove."

• 1:07:49Speaker 04

  He's done it all at whatever 45 or 46, whatever it was at the time.

• 1:07:55Speaker 04

  And I remember thinking to myself, "Okay, hopefully he comes out soon so I can build a relationship with him before this interview." Because they've told me I've only got 20 minutes. Right. And they gave me sheets of things that I cannot ask him, like a list of things. It is five minutes before eight. He's still not out. He's still in his office. And I'm thinking, "Okay, he's about to come out here any minute." I need to make sure that we mic him up as he's shaking my hand and we sit him down because this, now there's tons of people there. There's production companies around. There's like their whole team is there. It's almost 8 a.m. And I'm like, "I've got a few minutes to make or break this interview." As he comes in. The lights turn on. He comes out, you know. I shake his hand. I say, "Nice to meet you Kobe."

• 1:08:41Speaker 04

  You never know when you meet someone like that, if they're going to be nice or kind, or are they a jerk? Are they like, really just like, "Let's get on with this." But he was the most present as most present people can be.

• 1:08:54Speaker 04

  He was so kind to me. Tiffany, my videographer, is miking him up, sitting down with him. I ask him three questions. I'm like, "Kobe, I just want to acknowledge you. I play with the USA handball team and um,

• 1:09:08Speaker 04

  I've heard amazing things about you at the Olympics and how you always show up for the other Olympians in the USA. And I just want to say that's really cool." And he goes, "Man, you play handball? I grew up in Italy playing handball and it's the greatest sport. I wish Americans played it more." I go, "I know. It's amazing."

• 1:09:24Speaker 04

  And I go, we have a lot of, you know, we have some mutual friends in common. And Novak Djokovic talks about how amazing you are. I just had him on recently. He goes, Novak, that's my brother. Man, he's such a good guy. His mindset, he's got this mentality. He kind of reminds me of myself. I love that guy. We just had a nice moment talking about the Olympics, talking about friends we knew in common, and talking about sports for two minutes before we got in this interview. I had these sheets of paper by the publicist, there's teams, you know, hovering over us. And I look at him and I go, Kobe, there's a bunch of stuff that your team's told me what we can't talk about, and I know we only have 20 minutes, but is there anything else off limits that we shouldn't talk about? Or are we good to go? And he just grabs my leg and he's like, ask me anything you want and take as long as you need.

• 1:10:09Ryan Clark?

  Wow.

• 1:10:10Speaker 04

  And I was just like, that's cool. You know, I didn't want to overextend my time and I didn't want to ask him things that were inappropriate, but I just thought like, it's cool that he was that present, that kind. And the conversation was all about love and beauty and, you know, teamwork and just like inspiring stories for me. You know, we went 40 minutes. He ended up following me on Instagram afterwards. I was like, this is weird that Kobe's following me, messaging me. We were trying to do another interview, but again, he passed away before we could do the second interview. But for me, that, still today after, you know, 11 years, 1700 plus episodes, is one of my most impactful moments.

• 1:10:49Ryan Clark?

  691? 691. He is my favorite athlete of all time. And so when you ask me that, I had opportunities where, like I think I could have, or I could have tried to force it, and I didn't because I just thought eventually.

• 1:11:05Speaker 04

  It would happen.

• 1:11:06Ryan Clark?

  It'll happen. I still remember exactly where I was when he passed. And so for me, in starting this platform, he would have been my number one bucket list guest. You mentioned Tony Robbins already, and you said he was one of the three guests you started your podcast for. Who were the other two?

• 1:11:29Speaker 04

  Well, the other two, The Rock, which you guys have had, I saw that, it was awesome. And then Jim Carrey. Jim Carrey's one of them. Stallone would be another if I had a top five, he'd be in there as well.

• 1:11:42Speaker 04

  And I remember, like I've, I've been in a relationship with a lot of people who know The Rock and his team, and I've been, you know, following up with them for 11 years. And I'm kind of like, at your point, I'm like, I don't want to force it. Like, it's gonna happen when it happens. And he follows me actually on Instagram, so I'm kind of like, okay, he's gotta be aware of me. He's gotta seen some stuff. He's reshared videos of mine, actually, that people have talked about him. But I'm like, it'll happen when it happens. Now, maybe you can give me advice, like, should you force something? Or, you know?

• 1:12:11Ryan Clark?

  Or have her call.

• 1:12:12Speaker 04

  Right, or?

• 1:12:13Ryan Clark?

  Because that's how that took place.

• 1:12:14Speaker 04

  And I remember, I had a moment where I used to live in a building nearby. And Jim Carrey, I have like, one of Jim Carrey's original art paintings. He's an amazing artist. And he's like this spiritual guru now. I think he's fascinating. But I just loved his career. And I remember, I passed by him once, in my building, because he used to live in the building. And I passed by him once, and he looked at me and said, "How's it going?" I said, "Good, man, good to see you." And I just walked by, thinking that I'd see him again. I haven't seen him since. And I've been, I email his publicist like, every few months for like, the last 11 years. And, I'm like, do you force it? Do you just wait for it to come to you? You know, I'm kind of in that space too.

• 1:12:55Ryan Clark?

  Well, I'm gonna be honest, I don't wait for anything anymore when it comes to, to this show. You actually, you know, we are a part of Fanatics now. You actually had Michael Rubin on your show. What was something you've taken away from that conversation? Because the thing I love about what we get to do is we always leave with something from these people with amazing stories.

• 1:13:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, I liked him a lot. I mean, he, I love, here's what I like about him. That when we were talking, he was like, you know, I love learning from athletes. And the mindset of athletes of how they win, and how I kind of play that to business. He was asking me, because I was interviewing Tom Brady on stage, I didn't get to record it for my show. But I interviewed him on stage for an event shortly after that, and he was like, I want you to ask him these questions. He was like fascinated about the athlete mindset. He told me something in an interview. He was like, I met a guy once that like sold his company for hundreds of millions of dollars and he just kind of stopped afterwards. He said, "I'm good. I did it. I sold the company. I want to kind of just chill the rest of my life."

• 1:13:57Speaker 04

  He said, he thought that was lame because he was like, "There's so much more to give. There's so much more to create, to serve, to generate, to do." Now, you can decide what you want with that, you know, if you've already busted your butt for 30 years and maybe you just want to live your life with your family and friends, that's cool. But his kind of mindset around like, "How can I serve still?" Even if I'm not building some massive business, which is, I think, his intention. I like the idea of even if I stopped doing my show or I made tons of money that it didn't make sense to work in anymore, I would still want to be of service in some way. I would just want to give and generate.

• 1:14:33Channing Crowder?

  Get rewarded for your fandom with the new Fanatics app. Free daily games, cash prizes, team gear, all in one app. Play our free games and earn fan cash with every single win and a chance to win millions. Shop gear from your favorite teams and players.

• 1:14:53Ryan Clark?

  You mentioned that you're from Ohio and obviously I knew that before we started. Are you a Browns fan?

• 1:15:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, big Browns fan. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we've suffered my whole childhood.

• 1:15:04Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, well, you know.

• 1:15:06Speaker 04

  I'm a LeBron fan too, a big LeBron fan.

• 1:15:08Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, so basically what we've done, what I've done in my life is just beat up on the Browns.

• 1:15:12Speaker 04

  I know, Steelers man.

• 1:15:14Ryan Clark?

  In Pittsburgh, but you guys.

• 1:15:15Speaker 04

  More of an Ohio State guy, but you know.

• 1:15:17Ryan Clark?

  I get that. Now, that's a different conversation. You guys win a ton.

• 1:15:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:15:21Ryan Clark?

  When you look at the Ohio, let's think of just about the Ohio sports teams.

• 1:15:26Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:15:26Ryan Clark?

  You have Ohio State, LeBron comes back and wins in Cleveland. The one thing about playing in Cleveland is, it's like the fans are unaware of history, right? We'd be warming up and they're cussing you out and they're legitimately talking to us as if they had a chance of winning. Right, when you think about just how devoted though.

• 1:15:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:15:51Ryan Clark?

  Those fans are, what is it about Cleveland sports fans, man? That just makes them have this unwavering support of Ohio teams?

• 1:16:01Speaker 04

  I think it's something in Ohio in general. I think there is such a pride coming from Ohio and I'm assuming everyone from every Midwest state has a similar vibe. I know you're from Florida, Florida? Yeah. Florida as well?

• 1:16:12Ryan Clark?

  Louisiana.

• 1:16:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. So I'm assuming everyone's like, yeah, this is the best state or whatever. But there is, I feel like there's an underdog mentality in Ohio. It's just kind of like, okay, just the cornfield Midwest, like guys that, you know, are dumb or whatever. So it's like, but there's so much legacy and history in Ohio sports success. And multiple different sports, Jesse Owens, you know, it's like, uh, Jack Nicklaus, um, you know, LeBron. It's just like, there's so much greatness from Ohio that I think we are proud of the people that have come there. Who've gone off to be the greatest in the world or one of the best. And I think that's a cool thing and the national championships at Ohio State and, you know.

• 1:16:58Speaker 04

  Cleveland Indians. Yeah, yeah. It's like, I mean, it's like, there's just a lot of pride being like in a state that no one really talks about.

• 1:17:06Ryan Clark?

  So my question to you is this then, when you finally got to hear Cleveland.

• 1:17:11Speaker 04

  This is for you.

• 1:17:12Ryan Clark?

  What was that like as a LeBron fan?

• 1:17:15Speaker 04

  I mean, yeah, I mean, I'm not a, I'm not a Cleveland, I'm not from Cleveland, but it's just being from Ohio. I was like, I have, you know, I think I'm a year older than LeBron, but when I was in high school, it was like, that's what you heard about LeBron. It was Maurice Claret and LeBron. I don't know if you guys know Maurice.

• 1:17:31Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, we had him on the show.

• 1:17:32Speaker 04

  But I was like, oh, these guys are the pride of Ohio when I was, you know, a teenager. And they're like on the cover of Sports Illustrated, like 16. You're like, oh, this is kind of cool. Like something's happening here. It's not just all the southern states and SEC and, you know, all you guys in Florida, Louisiana.

• 1:17:46Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, we love it.

• 1:17:47Speaker 04

  Speed and, you know, speed kills and all this stuff. I'm like, okay, you can do something from Ohio. So I think there was a lot of pride and I, so I was just a fan of both of those guys.

• 1:17:56Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:56Speaker 04

  And even when LeBron left to go to Miami, I was like, that's kind of a bummer. But I was still a fan of him and I wanted him to succeed, being from Ohio. But when he came back, I thought, what, that's the ultimate level of courage, I think, and respect to come back. It's not the best team, you could have gone anywhere else. And to say, I have a mission to go and win it for this city and this state. Whether you stay for a year, five years, or and then leave again, for me, I'm like, I will clap it up and respect LeBron forever. And the fact that he just does a lot for the state. Yeah. He does a lot for the city. He comes, he's built schools, you know, he just cares. And I think that's really cool.

• 1:18:37Speaker 04

  Obviously, he's here in LA and I think it's awesome because I'm in LA, I can, I can watch him still. But I think he's the best. And I think it's amazing what he had to overcome as a teenager until now. And succeed at the level he has consistently for 20 years. Yes, I agree. It's undeniable, the pressure that he's overcome. And be able to do it with a certain level of class and poise.

• 1:19:00Speaker 07

  Must be 21 plus. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. Full promotional terms and conditions apply for each offer. See Fanatics Sportsbook app for available promotions and offer terms.

• 1:19:09Fred Taylor?

  Another great player from Ohio, a lot of us sometimes think he's from Michigan, Charles Woodson.

• 1:19:14Speaker 04

  Uh huh.

• 1:19:15Fred Taylor?

  Wood is from Ohio.

• 1:19:16Speaker 04

  It's too bad.

• 1:19:17Fred Taylor?

  The, the, the Browns, I can tell you, the Browns are responsible for the plastic bottles in the stadium. We played a game there, they didn't like a call when they first went back to Cleveland. Uh, they didn't like a call, so they started throwing bottles, hard glass bottles from the upper deck.

• 1:19:37Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 1:19:37Fred Taylor?

  Because the refs screwed up a call. And immediately after that, the next season, the NFL implemented plastic bottles in the stadium. No drinking in the third quarter.

• 1:19:46Speaker 04

  You're welcome. You know, you didn't get injured by the last ball off the bus, you know, the dog pound.

• 1:19:50Fred Taylor?

  I shot, I ran out of there. I completely ran out of there. We asked all of our guests on the show, uh, and you watch the show, so you might, you should be prepared. Uh, your biggest pivot, that's that one moment you can look back on and say, without this moment happening to me, I wouldn't be the person I am right now.

• 1:20:10Speaker 04

  A lot of them, but I think the one of deciding that I'm going to take a look within myself and start to heal. And I'm going to start to reveal the parts of me that I'm most ashamed of, least proud of. And pivot and turn around and look at myself as opposed to run away from myself.

• 1:20:29Speaker 04

  And there are different seasons of life that I keep doing that. I've got a, you know, it's a constant daily reflection. How did I show up today? How did I live in accordance of what my highest self would do? Am I living good values? Am I doing the best I can, you know? Am I, when people weren't watching, was I out of integrity? Little things, you know? Or was I in the best integrity I could be? It's like a daily pivot. But I think 11 years ago, when I started the journey of opening up about sexual abuse and all of my shames and insecurities, that changed my life forever. And being in the continual process of that has been powerful.

• 1:21:08Fred Taylor?

  It's never too late to pivot.

• 1:21:10Speaker 04

  Every day, man, every moment. I got a, I got a question for you guys, if it's okay. I don't know, unless you gotta wrap it up, but I got a question.

• 1:21:16Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, we're good.

• 1:21:19Speaker 04

  I like to see what's possible in front of the guests that I interview and offer suggestions, what I think could be the next level for them. But instead of me doing that with you guys, I wanted to see if each one of you would briefly speak into each one of your friendships and the brotherhood here and give one area that they could improve in their intimate, personal lives that maybe others don't know about. You don't have to say something off limits, but something you see is possible for your brother

• 1:22:00Speaker 04

  in front of you, for them to continue to elevate to a new level, whether it's around health, or personal relationships, or fatherhood, or money, or whatever it is. So I'll let you start with each one of them, and then they get to do each one.

• 1:22:13Ryan Clark?

  For, for, for Channing, I would say it's allowing himself to actually feel and hurt.

• 1:22:24Ryan Clark?

  He, he never, like when Channing wakes up, Channing, no matter what happened the day before, it could be bad, he could have to deal with something with his babies, Lil' Chan had hurt himself, he wakes up the same every day. And for me, it's a great thing because I never feel like I have to adjust what I'm doing so Channing's okay. But then another piece of it is, I forget to ask him if he's okay. I forget to say, "Hey, man, I know this happened yesterday, you good?" Or any of those things, and then every time you ask him if you do, he'll, "I'm straight." Like, he's just always good. And I think he feels like he has to, for us and for other people,

• 1:23:08Ryan Clark?

  be that way because that's what he's always done. And I think he feels it's an expectation of him to be funny and to be happy and to brighten up a room and all of these different things because it's what he is known for. And he never really allows himself to process through the feeling of what he's dealing with. And I think for Fred, he just needs to give himself more grace. Wow. You know, I think it's a, it's a lot of things, like he looks at that he's dealing with and he allows those things to be very heavy on him. It's almost like they got like opposite issues, you know? And, you know, he's been very honest on our show. He's, he's helped me grow because he talks about therapy

• 1:23:53Ryan Clark?

  and he talks about anxiety and he's talked about his grandmother on this show as well. And he's made me more open about sharing things. But every time he shares something, I feel like he wears it as well. And I think that that's, that's hard. I don't, I don't believe that anybody's built to shoulder everything for themselves by themselves, but for everyone else as well. And I think that would be... My things that are like growth as people.

• 1:24:27Speaker 04

  That's beautiful. How did that land for you guys?

• 1:24:29Fred Taylor?

  I think it's spot on. RC, he's certainly spot on, certainly as it relates to myself. But speaking his thoughts on Channing, I agree 100% with Ryan on that, which is something I would also probably try and speak into Chan, as well as telling him to continue to just follow his heart. You know, continue to believe in...

• 1:24:56Fred Taylor?

  He's come to a space where he's tapping into who he is naturally. You know, with his comedic talent, you know, he's finding another part of himself or himself. But he's also realizing, in order to fulfill this life journey, I have to be selfless. I have to put my family in front of me. I'm not gonna be successful without them. So I've learned from Channing to be present. I can come and do this. We can pivot all across the country. But when I'm back home and my boys need me, because they're gonna look at me, I can't just say, "What's up, guys?" And passing and everything's good and thinking it's okay. I have to really, you know, dig into them, ask questions and really be there.

• 1:25:41Fred Taylor?

  So he's taught me that. So I would just tell him, you know, just keep believing in that dream, that journey and that other part of you, because I think you can definitely knock it out the park. And for Ryan, I would just tell him to take it easy. You know, me, I'm more chill. Like, I'm more chill. That's why I'm able to carry things. I don't always show it. And I sort of, sort of, from within, I don't put my burdens on everyone, because I feel like I can handle it, right? I'll go and talk in the room by myself to God or to my grandmother when I feel that burden. But with Ryan, I would tell him to take it easy. Like, he's probably the hardest working person I personally know.

• 1:26:26Fred Taylor?

  And he's slightly on edge a lot.

• 1:26:31Fred Taylor?

  He's backed off some, but again, just the, it's as simple as that. You know, just, just, just take it easy because I think he's great at everything and that's gonna always show. But I don't know, it's, it's, it's kinda hard for me to say, Ryan, take it easy when he has this underdog mentality all the time. Well, he was undrafted, you guys were. Yeah, and I wanna see him win. I want him to, I wanna see him be a, you know, have his own show and host his own show and get the 10, 15 million dollar a year contract. And I, I wanna see that for him, so it's hard for me to say, hey, take it easy when he has goals and aspirations and he's on a mission, so.

• 1:27:16Fred Taylor?

  That's real though. That's where I go. Wow.

• 1:27:18Channing Crowder?

  Their corrections was, is my positive of where, I, I, I know I could take on the pressure of other people's things, so I do. And that's why I make that decision, like, you're upset, you're upset, you're upset, so I'ma just make everybody else seem, I'ma just solve everybody else's problems because I'll be fine with the problems that y'all have. But with them two, and it's at the same point, that man works his ass off. He just, he keeps pushing the bar for himself. When you accomplish something, you run through the finish line, you run a hundred, he wants to run 200. Then he runs a 200, he runs one to 400, then he runs 400, he runs one to 800.

• 1:27:59Channing Crowder?

  Like, it's never an accomplishment where when I succeed, bitch, I'm about to go party.

• 1:28:07Channing Crowder?

  What we just did, we just signed a deal? Oh, yeah, yeah, I'ma ride, I'ma ride to the Bahamas for a second and enjoy myself.

• 1:28:11Fred Taylor?

  It's kinda like what you just said about the guy selling the business.

• 1:28:14Channing Crowder?

  Like, that's me, give me a hundred million dollars, I'ma get a big boat and ride in the middle of the Atlantic and nobody will see me again. But just pushing the bar and I would say, celebrate yourself is what I would tell Ryan. Ryan never celebrates himself. And it's, hell, you just said it too, when I would think about, when you were asking with Freddie, he just dwells on, dwells on negative sometimes.

• 1:28:41Channing Crowder?

  Or dwells on the bad side of things when I'm like,

• 1:28:44Ryan Clark?

  Seriously?

• 1:28:45Channing Crowder?

  Bro, you make the finals, the finals of the Hall of Fame every fucking year, but you be worried about not getting... You're... Do you think they're ever gonna talk about us to make the finals of the Hall of Fame?

• 1:28:57Ryan Clark?

  I don't even...

• 1:28:58Channing Crowder?

  We'll never be finalists.

• 1:28:59Ryan Clark?

  Hey, when that joint come out, I don't even pay attention.

• 1:29:02Channing Crowder?

  I don't even open the tab.

• 1:29:04Ryan Clark?

  Hey, they start... When that come on Twitter, I scroll up, well, that ain't about me.

• 1:29:08Channing Crowder?

  No, that's about us. When you make it to the finals, you be upset about not becoming the Hall of Famer, but you're in the conversation with the greatest football players ever, and you be upset about not getting over that hurdle, like, bro, do you understand the list you're on? You're amazing. You the wet people's ass out. Everywhere we go, people be like, "Man, is that Fred? Is that Fred? Is that Fred?" I be like, "Yeah, that's Fred damn Taylor." Like, goodness gracious, but you be upset about that not being that. So, it's like dwelling on the, looking at, looking at that.

• 1:29:45Ryan Clark?

  Louis about to start a whole different show idea.

• 1:29:47Channing Crowder?

  And not looking at that. My god, damn.

• 1:29:51Ryan Clark?

  It'll be a whole different show.

• 1:29:52Fred Taylor?

  I certainly 100% agree with Ryan. To an extent, I agree with Channing.

• 1:30:01Fred Taylor?

  And again, I do also understand that I do not have any control of the outcome when it comes to the Hall of Fame conversation. I believe they know me well enough to know that it's in my heart. Like, I can smile out here and say, "Ah, whenever it happens, it happens." But they can know every time it comes around, I'm like, "Okay." It's just it. I try not to think about it a lot, but it's something that I would like to, you know, be able to enjoy, enjoy with them, my family, friends, before I'm old and decrepit. So, I wanna be able to experience that. And again, not that I let it just hang over my head. It doesn't affect any other parts of my life,

• 1:30:44Fred Taylor?

  but it does feel somewhat of a letdown when, you know, that final list, I'm not on that final list, but...

• 1:30:53Channing Crowder?

  And when he makes it, I'm flipping my drawers on the stage.

• 1:30:56Speaker 04

  There you go, there you go. Let's go. I just wanna say, you know, I wanna acknowledge each one of you guys because I... Would have dreamed to have the ability to watch something like this as a teenager. You know, as a, as a young boy come from the great state of Ohio. Seeing incredible, great athletes at the top of their game. Be able to speak with one another in open, vulnerable ways. While also interviewing, you know, society and culture's biggest names. And have these conversations. So I just want to acknowledge each one of you guys for creating this space, for having me on. But also continually doing this. I hope you guys do it for a long time with Alicia.

• 1:31:37Speaker 04

  Hopefully Ryan doesn't go off and do a $20 million deal too quickly and leave you guys. But I hope, you know, you know, the impact you guys are making by having these conversations. For young men like us, when we were confused as teenagers in our twenties or even in our thirties and forties still, to create these safe conversations. So I acknowledge you 20 of you guys. Thank you very much.

• 1:31:58Ryan Clark?

  That means a lot. And I think the last thing I do want to tell you is always prepare for these shows. Like this is, it's very important to me. But knowing that you were coming, I prepared differently because it was you. Because you are in the space, because you are one of the giants in the space. And I think the way that you continue to push the bar and continue to want to do things. It does inspire me and it inspires us because that's what we want. We want the longevity and we want to continue to challenge ourselves. And my biggest, my biggest priority was that when you stood up from here and when you go

• 1:32:40Ryan Clark?

  have conversations or when you talk to your fiance, you can sit down and say, this is one of the best conversations I've had. I enjoyed the way that they led the conversation. I enjoyed the space of being able to be vulnerable and feel like they wanted to understand and listen. And I think that's what's beautiful about what you do and how it's inspired us to do what we do, that men do need this space. No matter the color, no matter where they're from, no matter the background, like you said, once a month with our church group ain't gonna do it. So we appreciate you so much for stopping to do it, man. Thank you so much. All the love, brother. Hey, now that was therapy, straight up.

• 1:33:19Channing Crowder?

  That really was, man. That shit was great, bro. Yes, sir.

• 1:33:22Ryan Clark?

  Somebody gonna watch that and be like, yeah.

• 1:33:50Speaker 08

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 1:34:00Speaker 09

  Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Semaglutide injection 2.4mg a GLP-1. Call 1-8334-WEGOVIE or visit wegovie.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?